PagSeguro Digital Ltd (PAGS) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good evening. My name is Nihuge, and I will be your conference operator today. Welcome to PagBank Webcast Results for the First Quarter 2023. (Operator Instructions) This event is also being broadcast live via webcast and may be accessed through PagBank website at investors.pagseguro.com. Participants may view the slides in any order they wish. Today's conference is being recorded and will be available after the event is concluded.

晚上好。我叫泥虎哥，今天我是你們的會議運營商。歡迎收看 PagBank 2023 年第一季度網絡廣播結果。（運營商說明）該活動也通過網絡直播進行現場直播，可通過 PagBank 網站 investors.pagseguro.com 訪問。參與者可以按他們希望的任何順序查看幻燈片。今天的會議正在錄製中，將在活動結束後提供。

I would now like to turn the call over to your host, Éric Oliveira, Head of IR, ESG and Market Intelligence. Please go ahead.

我現在想把電話轉給你的主持人，IR、ESG 和市場情報主管 Éric Oliveira。請繼續。

Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining our first quarter 2023 earnings call. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session.

大家好。感謝您加入我們 2023 年第一季度的財報電話會議。發言者發言後，將進行問答環節。

Before proceeding, let me mention that any forward-looking statements included in the presentation or mentioned on this conference call are based on currently available information and PagBank's current assumptions, expectations and projections about future events. While PagBank believes that the assumptions, expectations and projections are reasonable in view of currently available information, you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements.

在繼續之前，讓我提一下，演示文稿中包含的或本次電話會議中提及的任何前瞻性陳述均基於當前可用信息和 PagBank 當前對未來事件的假設、預期和預測。儘管 PagBank 認為根據當前可用信息，假設、預期和預測是合理的，但請注意不要過分依賴這些前瞻性陳述。

Actual results may differ materially from those included in PagBank's presentation are discussed on this conference call for a variety of reasons, including those described in the forward-looking statements and Risk Factors sections of PagBank's most recent annual report on Form 20-F and other filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which are available on PagBank's Investor Relations website.

由於各種原因，實際結果可能與 PagBank 演示文稿中包含的結果存在重大差異，原因包括 PagBank 最新年度報告 20-F 表和其他文件的前瞻性陳述和風險因素部分中描述的那些與證券交易委員會，可在 PagBank 的投資者關係網站上找到。

Finally, I would like to remind you that during this conference call, the company may discuss some non-GAAP measures, including those disclosed in the presentation. We present non-GAAP measures when we believe that the additional information is useful and meaningful to investors. The presentation of this non-GAAP financial information, which is not prepared under any comprehensive set of accounting rules or principles. It's not intended to be considered separately from or as a substitute for our financial information prepared and presented in accordance with IFRS as issued by the IASB. For more details, the foregoing non-GAAP measures and the reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable IFRS measures are presented in the last page of this webcast presentation and earnings release.

最後，我想提醒您，在本次電話會議期間，公司可能會討論一些非 GAAP 措施，包括在演示文稿中披露的措施。當我們認為額外信息對投資者有用且有意義時，我們會提供非 GAAP 措施。此非 GAAP 財務信息的列報，並非根據任何一套全面的會計規則或原則編制。不應單獨考慮或替代我們根據 IASB 發布的 IFRS 編制和列報的財務信息。有關更多詳細信息，上述非 GAAP 措施以及這些非 GAAP 財務措施與最直接可比的 IFRS 措施的調節情況，請參見本網絡廣播演示文稿和收益發布的最後一頁。

With that, let me turn the call over to Ricardo. Thank you.

有了這個，讓我把電話轉給里卡多。謝謝。

Good evening from São Paulo, everyone, and thanks for joining our first quarter 2023 results webcast. Tonight, I have the company of Alexandre Magnani, our CEO; Artur Schunck, our CFO; and Éric Oliveira, Head of Investor Relations and ESG. Before Alexandre and Artur share the main highlights for the quarter, I would like to share some achievements during the first month of 2023, and the main drivers for profits and cash flow generation, balanced with quality growth for the coming quarters.

大家晚上好，聖保羅，感謝您參加我們的 2023 年第一季度業績網絡廣播。今晚，我有我們的首席執行官 Alexandre Magnani 陪伴；我們的首席財務官 Artur Schunck；和 Éric Oliveira，投資者關係和 ESG 負責人。在 Alexandre 和 Artur 分享本季度的主要亮點之前，我想分享 2023 年第一個月的一些成就，以及利潤和現金流產生的主要驅動力，以及未來幾個季度的高質量增長。

Going to Slide 3. On the left side, we are happy to announce the convergence of our brands, PagBank and PagSeguro into one single brand, PagBank, the complete bank. We are excited about the next steps of our journey, having a unique 2-sided ecosystem, combining Payments and Financial Services in one single app, one single banking and one customer care. For us, PagBank brand represents our offering beyond payments.

轉到幻燈片 3。在左側，我們很高興地宣布我們的品牌 PagBank 和 PagSeguro 合併為一個品牌 PagBank，即完整的銀行。我們對我們旅程的下一步感到興奮，擁有一個獨特的雙向生態系統，將支付和金融服務結合在一個應用程序、一個單一的銀行業務和一個客戶服務中。對我們而言，PagBank 品牌代表了我們提供的超越支付的產品。

We're also happy to announce that PAGS has joining FTSE roadshow preview list, which can impact positively our average daily volumes, increased exposure to passive funds and further improve PAGS shares awareness. Another milestone was the brokerage license granted by CVM, the Brazilian Securities and Exchange Commission, an important step that enables to provide a complete set of investment projects through our proprietary and integrated platform.

我們也很高興地宣布 PAGS 已加入 FTSE 路演預覽名單，這可以對我們的平均每日交易量產生積極影響，增加對被動基金的敞口並進一步提高 PAGS 股票知名度。另一個里程碑是巴西證券交易委員會 CVM 授予的經紀牌照，這是通過我們專有的集成平台提供完整投資項目的重要一步。

On the right side of the slide, we highlight our main drivers for 2023 financials. Our drivers for profitability during these years are solid, and we keep committed to deliver lower losses, keep our operating expense discipline and further improve our structural competitive advantage by having deposits as a main source of funding and at a lower cost when compared to peers. In terms of drivers for cash flow generation, we are focusing on improving our cash earnings and looking for capital expenditure efficiencies with diligent go-to-market strategy and software development optimization.

在幻燈片的右側，我們重點介紹了 2023 年財務狀況的主要驅動因素。這些年我們的盈利驅動力是穩固的，我們繼續致力於降低損失，保持我們的運營費用紀律，並通過將存款作為主要資金來源並以低於同行的成本進一步提高我們的結構性競爭優勢。在現金流產生的驅動因素方面，我們專注於提高我們的現金收入，並通過勤奮的上市戰略和軟件開發優化來尋求資本支出效率。

Finally, in our drivers for quality growth, we will keep fostering PagBank secured credit portfolio products and growing volumes in key segments. We also reaffirm our commitment to create a superior value proposition for our clients based on the transparent integration between our Payments and Financial Services platform.

最後，在推動高質量增長的過程中，我們將繼續培育 PagBank 有擔保的信貸組合產品，並在關鍵領域不斷增長。我們還重申我們的承諾，即基於我們的支付和金融服務平台之間的透明集成，為我們的客戶創造卓越的價值主張。

Now I'll pass the word to Alexandre. Thank you.

現在我會把話傳給亞歷山大。謝謝。

Thank you, Ricardo. Hello, everyone. After Dutra initial remarks, I would like to present how the growth profits, cash generation drivers behaved during the first quarter of 2023.

謝謝你，里卡多。大家好。在 Dutra 發表初步言論後，我想介紹一下 2023 年第一季度利潤增長、現金產生驅動因素的表現。

PagBank clients reached BRL 28.7 million, accounting for more than BRL 200 billion in transactions processed by us, driven by the strong customer engagement, which is a consequence of our superior product value proposition. Our EBITDA reached almost BRL 800 million, and our net income close to BRL 400 million, with Q1 23 earnings per share of BRL 1.13.

PagBank 的客戶達到 2870 萬雷亞爾，占我們處理的交易額超過 2000 億雷亞爾，這得益於強大的客戶參與度，這是我們卓越的產品價值主張的結果。我們的 EBITDA 達到近 8 億巴西雷亞爾，淨收入接近 4 億巴西雷亞爾，23 年第一季度每股收益為 1.13 巴西雷亞爾。

Our discipline in capital allocation has been driving up cash earnings momentum. Our cash earnings accounted for BRL 379 million versus a cash burn of BRL 70 million in Q1 '22, reaching BRL 10 billion in net cash balance while our capital expenditure marked a decrease of minus 40% year-over-year.

我們在資本配置方面的紀律一直在推動現金收益勢頭。我們的現金收入為 3.79 億雷亞爾，而 22 年第一季度的現金消耗為 7000 萬雷亞爾，淨現金餘額達到 100 億雷亞爾，而我們的資本支出同比下降了負 40%。

In our Financial Services division, the main highlight was the breakeven point at region, with EBITDA close to BRL 70 million, led by total banking volume growth and better spreads since deposits reached BRL 18.6 billion, with annual percentage yield of 94% of the Brazilian interbank rate. In Payments division, our TPV grew 10% with our key segments, micro-merchants and SMBs, growing 50% faster than the industry growth, accounting for 16% year-over-year with BRL 1.2 billion in gross profit.

在我們的金融服務部門，主要亮點是該地區的盈虧平衡點，EBITDA 接近 7000 萬巴西雷亞爾，這得益於銀行業務總量的增長和更好的利差，因為存款達到 186 億巴西雷亞爾，年收益率為巴西巴西雷亞爾的 94%銀行間利率。在支付部門，我們的 TPV 與我們的關鍵部門、微型商戶和 SMB 一起增長了 10%，增長速度比行業增長快 50%，同比增長 16%，毛利潤為 12 億雷亞爾。

Slide 5. We are happy to announce the unification of PagBank and PagSeguro brands under PagBank only. Following our strategy to reinforce our one-stop shop solution under the PagBank brand, we expect to have a broader reach among merchants and consumers to simplify our communication strategy and client understanding and increased client awareness about our service beyond payments.

幻燈片 5. 我們很高興地宣布 PagBank 和 PagSeguro 品牌統一在 PagBank 之下。按照我們加強 PagBank 品牌下的一站式商店解決方案的戰略，我們希望在商家和消費者中擁有更廣泛的影響力，以簡化我們的溝通策略和客戶理解，並提高客戶對我們支付以外服務的認識。

Moving to Slide 6, we present our client base and cash in evolution. Our number of PagBank clients almost doubled in comparison to 2021, moving up from BRL 15 million to BRL 28.7 million in 2 years. Active clients accounted for more than 16 million, where 62% of consumers and 50% of the merchants considers PagBank their primary account. Our growth in cash in reached BRL 45 billion versus Q1 2022, led by total payment volume from merchant acquiring and strong growth of peak inflow transactions.

轉到幻燈片 6，我們展示了我們的客戶群和發展中的現金。與 2021 年相比，我們的 PagBank 客戶數量幾乎翻了一番，在 2 年內從 1500 萬巴西雷亞爾增加到 2870 萬巴西雷亞爾。活躍客戶超過 1600 萬，其中 62% 的消費者和 50% 的商家將 PagBank 視為他們的主要賬戶。與 2022 年第一季度相比，我們的現金收入增長達到 450 億雷亞爾，這主要得益於商家收單支付總額和峰值流入交易的強勁增長。

As a result, Slide 7 reviews a deposit growth of 66% on a year-over-year basis with nominal growth of BRL 7.4 billion, reaching a total level of BRL 18.6 billion on the first Q '23. Also, the respective annual percentage yields on deposits have decreased to 94% of the Brazilian interbank rate due to lower dependence on third-party platforms, distribution and improvement in cash flow generation. Account balance APY in first Q '23 reached 73% of the CDI, an increase in comparison to the previous quarter, which was mainly related to higher number of days our clients kept their savings in PagBank, reflecting our successful engagement strategy in SMBs and consumers with higher income.

因此，幻燈片 7 顯示存款同比增長 66%，名義增長為 74 億雷亞爾，在 23 年第一季度達到 186 億雷亞爾的總水平。此外，由於對第三方平台的依賴程度降低、分配和現金流產生的改善，相應的存款年收益率已降至巴西銀行同業拆借利率的 94%。 23 年第一季度的賬戶餘額 APY 達到 CDI 的 73%，與上一季度相比有所增加，這主要與我們的客戶將儲蓄存放在 PagBank 的天數增加有關，這反映了我們在中小企業和消費者中的成功參與策略與更高的收入。

Talking about our credit portfolio, we kept our strategy of reducing credit underwriting for unsecured products while leveraging secured products origination. In comparison to first Q '22, we were able to reach BRL 2.7 billion in outstanding credit portfolio, where secured products increased its shares from 11% in first Q '22 to 44% in first Q '23. The diversification of our credit portfolio has played a pivotal role in our overall business strategy. It has not only expanded our market reach, but has also had a positive impact in our risk management practice.

談到我們的信貸組合，我們保持了減少無擔保產品信貸承銷的策略，同時利用有擔保產品的發起。與 22 年第一季度相比，我們能夠達到 27 億雷亞爾的未償信貸組合，其中有擔保產品的份額從 22 年第一季度的 11% 增加到 23 年第一季度的 44%。我們信貸組合的多元化在我們的整體業務戰略中發揮了關鍵作用。它不僅擴大了我們的市場範圍，而且對我們的風險管理實踐產生了積極影響。

This strategic approach has resulted in a significant reduction in the provision for losses, effectively lowering our exposure to high-risk clients. Furthermore, we would also like to report a substantial improvement in our credit portfolio performance. The nonperforming loans, NPL above 90 days for our outstanding credit portfolio has significantly decreased to 17.9% compared to the high level of 22.4% in first Q '22. This reduction reflects our diligent efforts in managing credit risk assessment and enhancing asset quality.

這種戰略方法導致損失準備金大幅減少，有效降低了我們對高風險客戶的風險敞口。此外，我們還想報告我們的信貸組合業績有了顯著改善。與 22 年第一季度的 22.4% 的高水平相比，我們未償還信貸組合的不良貸款、90 天以上的不良貸款已大幅下降至 17.9%。這一減少反映了我們在管理信用風險評估和提高資產質量方面的努力。

The successful diversification of our credit portfolio allows us to maintain cautious yet proactive approach, balance prudent risk management with potential for long-term growth. By reducing our exposure to high-risk clients, we have enhanced the overall stability of our credit operations while optimizing our risk return profile. These achievements underscore our commitment to prudent lending practice, rigorous risk management, long-term stability and profitability of our credit operations. As we navigate uncertainties, we remain focused on maintaining our robust risk management framework, driving sustainable growth in the future.

我們信貸組合的成功多元化使我們能夠保持謹慎而積極的態度，在審慎的風險管理與長期增長潛力之間取得平衡。通過減少對高風險客戶的敞口，我們提高了信貸業務的整體穩定性，同時優化了我們的風險回報狀況。這些成就突顯了我們對審慎貸款實踐、嚴格風險管理、信貸業務的長期穩定性和盈利能力的承諾。在應對不確定性的過程中，我們仍然專注於維持穩健的風險管理框架，推動未來的可持續增長。

Before I turn over to Artur, I would like to give you more color on the growth of our payment business on Slide 9. As shown before, our TPV has grown 10% compared to first Q '22. Our revenue growth can be attributed to a combination of factors. Diving to the specifics, our MSMB have experienced 16% growth during the quarter. When we exclude nano-merchants, which are merchants with less than BRL 1,000 monthly TPV, this growth was 17% comparing to first Q '22. When we compare total active merchant base, we had a reduction of 10% comparing Q1 '23 versus Q1 '22. When we exclude nano-merchants, we noticed a 3% growth on the active base.

在我轉向 Artur 之前，我想在幻燈片 9 上為您提供更多有關我們支付業務增長的顏色。如前所示，我們的 TPV 與 22 年第一季度相比增長了 10%。我們的收入增長可歸因於多種因素。具體而言，我們的 MSMB 在本季度增長了 16%。當我們排除每月 TPV 低於 1,000 雷亞爾的商家納米商家時，與 22 年第一季度相比增長了 17%。當我們比較總的活躍商家群時，我們發現 23 年第一季度與 22 年第一季度相比減少了 10%。當我們排除納米商戶時，我們注意到活躍基數增長了 3%。

These figures are a direct result of our focused efforts to address MSMB needs, prioritizing the merchants with higher average TPV within the segment, which demonstrates the effectiveness of our strategy to allocate our efforts into growing on MSMB and overall TPV. Therefore, we remain confident in our decision to prioritize categories with higher profitability potential.

這些數字是我們專注於解決 MSMB 需求的直接結果，優先考慮該細分市場中平均 TPV 較高的商家，這表明我們將努力分配到 MSMB 和整體 TPV 增長的戰略的有效性。因此，我們對優先考慮具有更高盈利潛力的類別的決定仍然充滿信心。

Now I will pass the word to Artur to present our financial results.

現在我將向 Artur 傳達我們的財務結果。

Thanks, Alexandre. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us tonight. As we usually do, I want to share the financial highlights for the quarter. Once again, PAGS presented another set of records for a first quarter in the company's history, TPV, gross profit, net income and cash earnings marked all-time high figures. Adjusted EBITDA grew 18% year-over-year despite revenues growth of 9% versus Q1 '22, revealing our earnings power and cash generation that is a result of our strategy of better balanced growth and profitability.

謝謝，亞歷山大。大家好，感謝你們今晚加入我們。像往常一樣，我想分享本季度的財務亮點。 PAGS 再次創造了公司歷史上第一季度的另一組記錄，TPV、毛利、淨收入和現金收入均創歷史新高。儘管收入比 22 年第一季度增長 9%，但調整後的 EBITDA 同比增長 18%，這表明我們的盈利能力和現金產生能力是我們更好地平衡增長和盈利能力戰略的結果。

From Q1 '23 onwards, we will change the managerial methodology to allocate float between payments and PagBank, now on called financial services verticals. 100% of the float will be booked in financial services vertical similar to other financial institutions. There is no change in the revenue of our payments vertical, but an increase in financial expenses. Since the share of such expenses, offset by the float usually booked in payments vertical will no longer occur.

從 23 年第一季度開始，我們將改變管理方法，在支付和 PagBank 之間分配浮動，現在稱為金融服務垂直領域。 100% 的流通量將被登記在與其他金融機構類似的垂直金融服務中。我們支付垂直的收入沒有變化，但是財務費用增加了。由於此類費用的份額被通常在垂直付款中登記的浮動所抵消，因此將不再發生。

Consequently, gross profit and adjusted EBITDA will decrease. On the other hand, revenue for financial services vertical will increase since the float will lead to a higher interest income. Consequently, gross profit and adjusted EBITDA will increase. Important to say that there is no change impacts consolidated basis. And for comparison reasons, we provide in the appendix the fourth quarter of 2022, using the same metric applied to Q1 '23 to equalize our historical results by vertical.

因此，毛利和調整後的 EBITDA 將減少。另一方面，垂直金融服務的收入將增加，因為浮動將導致更高的利息收入。因此，毛利和調整後的 EBITDA 將增加。重要的是要說沒有變化影響綜合基礎。出於比較原因，我們在附錄中提供了 2022 年第四季度的數據，使用適用於 Q1 '23 的相同指標來按垂直方向均衡我們的歷史結果。

Financial services vertical achieved a positive adjusted EBITDA of BRL 69 million this quarter. Even considering the old managerial float allocation, the result closed at Q1 '23 in the positive side as a result of better performance of the credit portfolio with secured products that demand a lower level of delinquency provisions.

垂直金融服務本季度實現了 6900 萬雷亞爾的正調整 EBITDA。即使考慮到舊的管理浮動分配，結果在 23 年第一季度結束時仍處於積極狀態，因為信貸組合的表現更好，有擔保產品需要較低水平的拖欠準備金。

Net income non-GAAP achieved BRL 392 million and net income GAAP increased 6% year-over-year, totaling BRL 370 million. This represents an earnings per share of BRL 1.13 in the quarter, BRL 0.08 or 8% better than Q1 '22. In March and April, we repurchased 2.5 million shares under our buyback program. Our strategy and focus continue to better balance growth and profitability, targeting to improve shareholders' return.

非 GAAP 淨收入達到 3.92 億雷亞爾，GAAP 淨收入同比增長 6%，總計 3.7 億巴西雷亞爾。這代表本季度每股收益為 1.13 雷亞爾，比 22 年第一季度高出 0.08 雷亞爾或 8%。 3 月和 4 月，我們根據回購計劃回購了 250 萬股股票。我們的戰略和重點繼續更好地平衡增長和盈利能力，旨在提高股東回報。

On Slide 11, revenues for payments vertical grew 10% year-over-year due to the positive result from the massive merchant repricing done in 2022. As a result, gross profit reached BRL 1.2 billion, an increase of 2% when compared to the same period of last year, with financial expenses offsetting up trend given the higher average interest rate versus the Q1 '22.

在幻燈片 11 中，由於 2022 年商家大規模重新定價的積極結果，垂直支付收入同比增長 10%。因此，毛利潤達到 12 億雷亞爾，與去年同期相比增長 2%。與去年同期相比，由於平均利率高於 22 年第一季度，財務費用抵消了上升趨勢。

In the next slide, Financial Services verticals, total venues reached BRL 331 million in Q1 '23, 1% lower than Q1 '22 due to the shift to secured products underwriting, which have lower APRs and longer duration in comparison to unsecured products. On the other hand, gross profit BRL 179 million, an increase of 274% year-over-year, mainly due to the secured products portfolio that naturally leads to lower provisions for losses. Based on that, we are creating a safe and solid path to restore a better mix of credit underwriting composed by secured and unsecured products in the coming quarters. enforcing our one-stop shop value proposition and further increased PagBank principality.

在下一張幻燈片中，金融服務垂直領域，23 年第一季度的總營業額達到 3.31 億雷亞爾，比 22 年第一季度低 1%，原因是轉向有擔保產品承保，與無擔保產品相比，有擔保產品的 APR 較低，期限更長。另一方面，毛利潤為1.79億雷亞爾，同比增長274%，主要是由於有擔保的產品組合自然導致損失準備金減少。在此基礎上，我們正在創造一條安全穩固的道路，以在未來幾個季度恢復由有擔保和無擔保產品組成的更好的信貸承銷組合。執行我們的一站式服務價值主張並進一步增加 PagBank 的公國地位。

Moving to Slide 13. Financial expenses closed at BRL 813 million versus BRL 621 million in '22. This increase is mainly explained by the higher average interest rate in the period in comparison to Q1 '22. This was partially offset by the higher share of deposits and return on earnings in the period that lowered funding spreads and led to lower financial expenses in comparison to last quarter.

轉到幻燈片 13。財務費用收於 8.13 億巴西雷亞爾，而 22 年為 6.21 億巴西雷亞爾。這一增長的主要原因是與 22 年第一季度相比，該期間的平均利率更高。與上一季度相比，降低資金利差並導致財務費用降低的期間較高的存款份額和收益回報率部分抵消了這一點。

Total losses decreased 50% year-over-year. This great performance comes from lower expected credit losses of credit portfolio driven by a healthier coverage ratio and credit underwriting mostly for secured products. At the same time, charge back as a percentage of TPV decreased versus Q4 '22 and Q1 '22. Important to highlight that total losses in Q4 '22 reduced around 30% over Q3 '22, and this quarter reduced more 34% over Q4 '22.

總虧損同比下降 50%。這種出色的表現來自於更健康的覆蓋率和主要針對有擔保產品的信貸承銷所推動的信貸組合的預期信貸損失較低。同時，與 22 年第 4 季度和 22 年第 1 季度相比，退款佔 TPV 的百分比有所下降。需要強調的是，22 年第 4 季度的總虧損比 22 年第 3 季度減少了約 30%，而本季度比 22 年第 4 季度減少了 34%。

Operating expenses reached BRL 587 million in Q1 '20, up 5% year-over-year. This amount represents 15.7% of PAGS revenues versus 16.4% in the same period of last year and stable when compared to last quarter. The improved efficiency has come from personnel and marketing expenses leverage. This quarter, we had a onetime expense related to the head count resizing around BRL 12 million. Excluding this, operating expenses in nominal terms were flattish versus Q1 '22.

20 年第一季度的運營費用達到 5.87 億雷亞爾，同比增長 5%。這一數額佔 PAGS 收入的 15.7%，而去年同期為 16.4%，與上一季度相比保持穩定。效率的提高來自人員和營銷費用的槓桿作用。本季度，我們有約 1200 萬雷亞爾的與員工人數調整相關的一次性費用。排除這一點，名義上的運營費用與 22 年第一季度持平。

Jumping to Slide 14. We present a summary about how PAGS results evolved during this quarter. Revenue growth, lower losses and operating expenses discipline more than offset the increase in financial expenses and D&A plus POS write-offs.

跳轉到幻燈片 14。我們總結了本季度 PAGS 結果的演變情況。收入增長、虧損減少和運營費用紀律抵消了財務費用和 D&A 以及 POS 沖銷的增加。

In the next slide, cash earnings continue to gain momentum, reaching a positive amount of BRL 379 million versus a negative amount of BRL 17 million in Q1 '22. Cash earnings represented around 10% of revenues, reflecting the company's focus on maximizing LTV-to-CAC ratio by balancing POS subsidies, client engagement and monetization and the dilutive process to leverage profits and cash generation.

在下一張幻燈片中，現金收入繼續增長勢頭，達到 3.79 億雷亞爾的正數，而 22 年第一季度為負數 1700 萬雷亞爾。現金收入佔收入的 10% 左右，反映出公司專注於通過平衡 POS 補貼、客戶參與和貨幣化以及利用利潤和現金產生的稀釋過程來最大化 LTV 與 CAC 的比率。

CapEx-to-revenue ratio reached 10.9% this quarter versus 19.9% in Q1 '22. This decrease was mainly driven by the go-to-market optimization in POS being more selective in merchant acquisition to leverage PagBank and sustainable growth at the same time setting a higher bar for investment optimization in software and engineering teams. Depreciation and amortization, including POS write-off, totaled BRL 365 million, representing 9.7% of PAGS revenue, keeping the ongoing convergence of CapEx and D&A to unlock additional profitability in the coming years.

本季度資本支出與收入之比達到 10.9%，而 22 年第一季度為 19.9%。這一下降主要是由於 POS 的上市優化在商戶收購中更具選擇性以利用 PagBank 和可持續增長，同時為軟件和工程團隊的投資優化設定了更高的標準。折舊和攤銷，包括 POS 沖銷，總計 3.65 億雷亞爾，佔 PAGS 收入的 9.7%，保持資本支出和 D&A 的持續融合，以在未來幾年釋放額外的盈利能力。

On the Slide 16, our net cash balance ended the first quarter at BRL 10 billion, increasing BRL 1.7 billion year-over-year. At the same time, we have been improving our capital structure and diversifying funding sources to support volume growth, with deposits now representing around 59% of our third-party funding sources. Our equity position continued to increase with 54% being composed by returned earnings, reinforcing our commitment to shareholders about capital allocation and returns.

在幻燈片 16 中，我們的淨現金餘額在第一季度結束時為 100 億巴西雷亞爾，同比增加 17 億巴西雷亞爾。與此同時，我們一直在改善我們的資本結構和多元化資金來源以支持交易量增長，目前存款約占我們第三方資金來源的 59%。我們的股權繼續增加，其中 54% 由收益回報組成，加強了我們對股東的資本配置和回報承諾。

To conclude our presentation, I turn back to Alexandre for the final comments. Thank you.

在結束我們的演講時，我將返回 Alexandre 進行最後的評論。謝謝。

Before ending our presentation, we would like to delve into a key point regarding the prepaid cards interchange fee cap impact on our business. First and foremost, it's important to recognize that PAGS ecosystems robust an adaptive platform that leverages our complementary businesses, namely acquiring and creations. This combination creates a natural hedge for the company, allowing us to mitigate risks and capitalize on opportunities in the market.

在結束我們的演講之前，我們想深入探討一個關於預付卡交換費上限對我們業務的影響的關鍵點。首先，重要的是要認識到 PAGS 生態系統是一個強大的自適應平台，可以利用我們的互補業務，即收購和創造。這種結合為公司創造了自然對沖，使我們能夠降低風險並利用市場機會。

By observing the impact on the month of April and looking ahead to 2023, we anticipate that the net income will remain relatively stable since the impact on net income due to prepaid cards new interchange regulation are relatively negligible. Before jumping to the Q&A session, I would like to emphasize our focus for 2023: grow with profitability combining optimization and expansion cycles; consolidate PagBank penetration, customer engagement and revenue diversification; develop an integrated, unique and superior value proposition under a single brand; faster security in our operating levels to reduce losses and improve customer experience; invest in our human resources to keep building a pleasant and highly productive work environment.

通過觀察對 4 月份的影響並展望 2023 年，我們預計淨收入將保持相對穩定，因為預付卡新交換規定對淨收入的影響相對可以忽略不計。在進入問答環節之前，我想強調一下我們 2023 年的重點：通過結合優化和擴張周期的盈利能力實現增長；鞏固 PagBank 滲透率、客戶參與度和收入多元化；在單一品牌下開發綜合、獨特和卓越的價值主張；提高我們運營水平的安全性，以減少損失並改善客戶體驗；投資於我們的人力資源，以持續營造愉快且高效的工作環境。

Now we have ended our presentation, and we will open the Q&A session. Operator, please?

現在我們的演示結束了，我們將打開問答環節。接線員，請說？

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from John Coffey, Barclays.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 John Coffey。

My question was really on TPV growth, particularly some of the numbers you said on Slide 9 of the deck. I see that your -- I know you reported 10% TPV growth, but if you were to exclude the large accounts in several quarters, you'd be at 16%. So I guess, I was wondering, what is happening with the large accounts in several quarters given that 6 ppt magnitude between those growth rates? Are these just certain accounts are moving off platform? Or does it speak to any kind of underlying factors that you're seeing in Brazil?

我的問題實際上是關於 TPV 的增長，特別是你在幻燈片 9 上所說的一些數字。我看到你的 - 我知道你報告了 10% 的 TPV 增長，但如果你在幾個季度中排除大客戶，你將達到 16%。所以我想，我想知道，鑑於這些增長率之間有 6 個百分點的幅度，幾個季度的大賬戶發生了什麼？這些只是某些帳戶正在離開平台嗎？或者它是否說明了您在巴西看到的任何潛在因素？

John, thank you for the question. Yes, you're right. On Slide 9, if we exclude the nano-merchants and the large account and sub-acquirers is 16%, which is higher than the industry that was at 10.7%. What happened is that, of course, with the high interest rates in the economy, some sub-acquirers are decreasing their volumes, that's part of that. But the majority of the movements here or the moving parts here is because we are looking for profitable accounts with positive net take rates.

約翰，謝謝你的提問。你是對的。在幻燈片 9 中，如果我們排除納米商戶和大客戶和子收單方，則為 16%，高於行業的 10.7%。發生的事情是，當然，隨著經濟的高利率，一些子收購方正在減少他們的交易量，這是其中的一部分。但這裡的大部分變動或這裡的移動部分是因為我們正在尋找淨收益為正的盈利賬戶。

So we -- as we always say, we are not looking for market share as the main driver for the company. Market share is a consequence of what we're doing, looking for positive accounts with positive net take rates and eventually some large accounts and sub-acquirers may migrate to other players that are looking for market share. And that's fine. That's fine. We are fine with that decision. We are looking for profitability in a sustainable way. We are looking for clients that could also use PagBank so that we can cross-sell. We can get data. We can eventually offer credit to them in the near future.

所以我們 - 正如我們常說的那樣，我們並不是在尋找市場份額作為公司的主要驅動力。市場份額是我們正在做的事情的結果，尋找具有正淨利率的正賬戶，最終一些大賬戶和子收購方可能會遷移到其他正在尋找市場份額的參與者。這很好。沒關係。我們對這個決定沒有意見。我們正在尋求可持續的盈利能力。我們正在尋找也可以使用 PagBank 的客戶，以便我們進行交叉銷售。我們可以得到數據。我們最終可以在不久的將來向他們提供信貸。

But that's the explanation. Some of the clients moving to someone else. And also some sub-acquirers have a decrease in volumes because they are struggling with the high interest rates. And in a situation like that, it is important to have scale as we have here impact.

但這就是解釋。一些客戶轉移到其他人那裡。此外，一些次級收購方的交易量有所下降，因為他們正在與高利率作鬥爭。在這樣的情況下，重要的是要有規模，因為我們在這裡有影響。

I just have 1 quick follow-up just related to that. When does the impact of the nano-merchants essentially go away Like when do all the ones who are going to leave your platform leave such that all the numbers start the growth rates start moving in the same direction again?

我只有 1 個與此相關的快速跟進。納米商人的影響什麼時候基本消失就像所有要離開你的平台的人甚麼時候離開這樣所有的數字開始增長率開始再次朝著同一個方向移動？

Well, we are not -- we are seeing the nano-merchants. Some of the nano-merchants, what happened is we see some mortality. As you may know, last year, we did not focus on nano-merchants because it had to size the more than what we think is healthy and sustainable for the company. So that's why we are seeing -- the churn is stable, but the gross adds are lower because we took this conscious decision not to accelerate in nano-merchants anymore. .

好吧，我們不是——我們看到的是納米商人。一些納米商人，發生的事情是我們看到一些死亡率。你可能知道，去年，我們沒有關注納米商戶，因為它的規模必須超過我們認為對公司健康和可持續發展的規模。所以這就是為什麼我們看到 - 流失穩定，但總增加量較低，因為我們做出了這個有意識的決定，不再加速納米商戶。 .

But important to say that part of the nano-merchants that are not using our acquiring, they keep working with us with PagBank. Maybe someone got a job, but they keep using PagBank as their bank. So the main focus is really the micro merchants and the SMBs.

但重要的是，部分未使用我們收單服務的納米商戶，他們繼續與我們合作，使用 PagBank。也許有人找到了工作，但他們繼續使用 PagBank 作為他們的銀行。因此，主要關注點實際上是微型商戶和中小企業。

Our next question comes from Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Mario Pierry。

Congratulations on the results. Let me ask you 2 questions. First one, the market is starting to price in lower rates in Brazil later this year. Can you remind us of your sensitivity of your earnings or lower rate environment? Also, how would that impact your strategy, especially on pricing. Would you clearly you have a benefit on your financial expenses.

祝賀結果。讓我問你2個問題。第一個，今年晚些時候市場開始消化巴西較低的利率。您能否提醒我們您對收入或低利率環境的敏感性？此外，這將如何影響您的策略，尤其是在定價方面。您清楚嗎，您對財務費用有好處嗎？

I was just wondering if you would be willing to pass on that improvements to your clients, especially because we're seeing some of these nonlisted companies becoming more aggressive in market share. So just wanted to hear your thoughts on how a low rate environment would impact your business.

我只是想知道您是否願意將這些改進傳遞給您的客戶，特別是因為我們看到其中一些非上市公司在市場份額方面變得更加激進。所以只是想听聽您對低利率環境將如何影響您的業務的想法。

And the second question, I thought it was interesting that you're choosing the name PagBank. The bank today represents about 10% of your revenue. So when we look over like a 5-year time, do you think that the bank clearly is going to become a bigger part of your business? But just wondering, how do you see that evolving? Is the banking revenues going to be 30%, 40%, 50% of your revenues? How do you look at that?

第二個問題，我覺得你選擇 PagBank 這個名字很有趣。如今，銀行約佔您收入的 10%。因此，當我們回顧 5 年時間時，您是否認為銀行顯然會成為您業務的重要組成部分？但只是想知道，你如何看待這種演變？銀行收入會佔您收入的 30%、40% 還是 50%？你怎麼看？

Mario, thank you for the question. Regarding interest rates, you're right that some people are saying that interest rates could go down in Brazil this year. Of course, that's something that is very dynamic. No one knows what exactly is going to be the interest rates in the near future. So -- and as you mentioned in your question, as we have many moving parts here, we have some -- part of our clients are long tail that once the interest rates go down, we can recover margins in the next business day because we charge these clients a fixed rate, regardless of the SELIC.

馬里奧，謝謝你的提問。關於利率，你是對的，有些人說今年巴西的利率可能會下降。當然，這是非常動態的事情。沒有人知道在不久的將來利率究竟會是多少。所以——正如你在問題中提到的，因為我們這裡有很多移動部分，我們有一些——我們的部分客戶是長尾客戶，一旦利率下降，我們可以在下一個工作日收回利潤，因為我們向這些客戶收取固定費率，而不管 SELIC。

There are some other clients that we may eventually call us to negotiate because probably they can have some information about the interest rates, and they may call us to negotiate, but that's not going to happen immediately. So we will also take advantage of that. And we have some small part of our TPV that is already linked with SELIC. So if SELIC goes down, the MBRs and the prepayments that we have for these clients may go down with the SELIC.

還有一些其他客戶，我們最終可能會打電話給我們進行談判，因為他們可能可以獲得一些有關利率的信息，他們可能會打電話給我們進行談判，但這不會立即發生。所以我們也將利用這一點。我們有一小部分 TPV 已經與 SELIC 相關聯。因此，如果 SELIC 下降，我們為這些客戶提供的 MBR 和預付款可能會隨著 SELIC 下降。

So we have many moving parts here. In addition to that, we have competition, as you mentioned. So we'd rather not to give you the exact number, but I would say you that if the -- or when the interest rates go down, we will be the company that will benefit to benefit the most with that because of the long tail that they have, because of the service that we offer for our clients and the stickiness that they have in our base. But we'd rather not to give an exact number here because, as you mentioned in your question, there are many moving parts here. That's the first part.

所以我們這裡有很多活動部件。除此之外，正如您提到的，我們還有競爭。所以我們不想給你確切的數字，但我會告訴你，如果 - 或者當利率下降時，我們將成為受益最大的公司，因為長尾他們之所以擁有，是因為我們為客戶提供的服務以及他們在我們基礎上的粘性。但我們不想在這裡給出確切的數字，因為正如你在問題中提到的，這裡有很多活動部件。這是第一部分。

The second one regarding PagBank. At the end of the day, what we are, we are a technology company offering financial services and payments. That's what we are, that we are -- have been building all these years. And we think PagBank represents more what we already have today, regardless of the revenues that you mentioned is 10%. But regardless of the revenues of 10%, PagBank represents what we have today in terms of products, in terms of stickiness. And even in the number of clients, we have more clients in PagBank than in PagSeguro.

第二個關於 PagBank。歸根結底，我們是一家提供金融服務和支付的科技公司。這就是我們，這些年來我們一直在建設的。我們認為 PagBank 代表了我們今天已經擁有的更多東西，不管你提到的收入是 10%。但是拋開10%的收入，PagBank在產品上，在粘性上，代表了我們今天所擁有的。即使在客戶數量上，我們在 PagBank 的客戶也比在 PagSeguro 的多。

And that's the future of the company. That's for sure. We are going to offer more and more financial services, and we think that's the right time to do that. In addition to that, we also that -- we are also -- we are sure that we may optimize our market investments by having only one brand. When you are a multibrand company, it's always kind of -- you have some of this inefficiency when you advertise, and you may generate some confusion even in some part of our clients.

這就是公司的未來。這是肯定的。我們將提供越來越多的金融服務，我們認為現在正是這樣做的好時機。除此之外，我們還——我們也是——我們確信我們可以通過只擁有一個品牌來優化我們的市場投資。當你是一家多品牌公司時，它總是有點——你在做廣告時效率低下，甚至在我們的某些客戶中你可能會產生一些困惑。

So we'd rather take the decision at this point, move to PagBank, invest in this brand. And of course, in the future, we're going to have more and more revenues coming from the financial services and related to that.

所以我們寧願在這一點上做出決定，轉向 PagBank，投資這個品牌。當然，在未來，我們將從金融服務和與之相關的收入中獲得越來越多的收入。

Okay. Very clear. Let me just follow up then, like if you can be a little bit more specific on competition in the SMB segment. I think that's where we're seeing the bulk of competition today. And I'm hearing a few players they think that they should be increasing their sales force. Are you -- and you've done an amazing job of your expenses. Is this something also that you could consider, like increasing your sales force in order to face competition?

好的。非常清楚。那麼讓我跟進一下，如果你能更具體地談談中小企業領域的競爭。我認為這就是我們今天看到大部分競爭的地方。我聽到一些玩家認為他們應該增加銷售隊伍。你是——而且你在開支方面做得非常出色。這是否也是您可以考慮的事情，例如增加銷售人員以應對競爭？

Mario, we -- 2 parts here, and thank you for the follow-up. First, when you have this headcount resizing we kind of not affected our sales force. Of course, if you have some sales force that is not performing, but that's different. So when you have this headcount resizing, we try to preserve our sales force because we think it's one of the strengths that we have in the company, we are executing very well with the results say by itself.

馬里奧，我們 - 這裡有 2 個部分，感謝您的跟進。首先，當你調整人數時，我們的銷售人員並沒有受到影響。當然，如果你有一些表現不佳的銷售人員，那就不同了。因此，當您調整人員規模時，我們試圖保留我們的銷售人員，因為我們認為這是我們在公司中擁有的優勢之一，我們執行得非常好，結果本身就是如此。

And regardless the growth of this team, we are always evaluating. There is no fixed decision here that we will not increase. Once you see there is opportunity for growth with decent net take rates we will invest. But I would tell you that, just to give a quick number here, our productivity per salespeople doubled in last year. Because we are being more assertive in the way that we make the routes, we are more assertive when -- the way that we send the salespeople to -- salesperson to the right merchant with the right pricing. They are -- as time passes by, they get more trained. They have a better sales pitch.

不管這個團隊的成長如何，我們總是在評估。這裡沒有固定的決定我們不增加。一旦您看到有可觀的淨收益率增長的機會，我們就會進行投資。但我會告訴你，為了快速給出一個數字，去年我們每個銷售人員的生產率翻了一番。因為我們在製定路線的方式上更加自信，所以當我們將銷售人員派往正確的商家並以正確的價格將其發送給正確的商家時，我們會更加自信。他們是——隨著時間的推移，他們得到了更多的訓練。他們有更好的銷售策略。

So -- but going back to your question, we are evaluating that very carefully. We are not, let's say, concerned about competition, increase the sales force. We keep doing our job, look at what we're doing, our productivity. And if you think there is some opportunity to increase our sales force. So that's -- that's for sure.

所以 - 但回到你的問題，我們正在非常仔細地評估它。比方說，我們不關心競爭，增加銷售隊伍。我們繼續做我們的工作，看看我們在做什麼，我們的生產力。如果您認為有機會增加我們的銷售隊伍。所以那是——那是肯定的。

Our next question comes from Craig Maurer, FT Partners.

我們的下一個問題來自 FT Partners 的 Craig Maurer。

Just one question on the take rate in the acquiring business. Could you give us some thoughts on how that should trend over the coming quarters considering that it sounds like there will be a slowing of attrition in the nano-merchant business. And you also made a statement that you're shifting the focus in large merchants from share gains to profitability in terms of large merchants that you'll be taking on the platform, plus you also talked about some attrition in some acquirers to acquire volume. So the take rate, it would just be great to get some thoughts on the directionality.

只有一個問題是關於收購業務的採用率。考慮到聽起來納米商業業務的流失速度將會放緩，您能否就未來幾個季度的趨勢給出一些想法。而且你還發表聲明說，你正在將大型商家的重點從分享收益轉移到你將在平台上接受的大型商家的盈利能力，此外你還談到了一些收購方的一些減員以獲取數量。所以採取率，如果能對方向性有一些想法就太好了。

Craig, well, going straight to the answer, we expect the take rates from the acquiring business to be stable in the following quarters. Of course, remember that in Q4, we have a seasonality with more debit card transactions, and it may go down eventually, but not because of our pricing, but because of the mix with more debit card transactions. And we expect to be stable because we also have some moving parts here.

克雷格，好吧，直接回答問題，我們預計收購業務的採用率在接下來的幾個季度將保持穩定。當然，請記住，在第四季度，我們有一個借記卡交易量增加的季節性，最終可能會下降，但這不是因為我們的定價，而是因為藉記卡交易量增加。我們希望保持穩定，因為我們這裡也有一些活動部件。

At the same time that we are increasing our SMB efforts and also micro-merchant efforts -- and as we said, we lost part of our nano-merchant but it's only 2% of TPV. On the other hand, when you have these sub-acquirers and large accounts moving out, it also helps our net take rates because they have a lower net take rate as you may know. So with all these moving parts and all the execution that we've been doing, we expect the net take rate in the following quarters to be stable.

與此同時，我們正在增加我們的 SMB 努力和微型商戶的努力——正如我們所說，我們失去了部分納米商戶，但它僅佔 TPV 的 2%。另一方面，當您將這些子收購方和大客戶遷出時，這也有助於我們的淨利率，因為您可能知道它們的淨利率較低。因此，有了所有這些移動部件和我們一直在做的所有執行，我們預計接下來幾個季度的淨利率將保持穩定。

Our next question comes from Bryan Keane, Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Bryan Keane。

I just wanted to figure out if we could get the percentage of TPV that comes from large accounts and also sub-acquirers.

我只是想弄清楚我們是否可以獲得來自大客戶和子收購方的 TPV 的百分比。

Bryan, thank you for the question. But to be honest, unfortunately, we don't give this disclosure because of competitive reasons. But I would say you that the SMB is the largest portion of our TPV already, but we don't give the disclosure of the breakdown between the other parts of TPV, I'm sorry.

布萊恩，謝謝你的提問。但老實說，不幸的是，出於競爭原因，我們不提供此信息。但我要說的是，SMB 已經是我們 TPV 的最大部分，但我們沒有披露 TPV 其他部分之間的細分，對不起。

Okay. Okay. And then just on the bigger picture question. I mean most of your investors and analysts on the call are mostly coming from the tech side of things. When you say you want to get more growing into financial services, how much credit risk are you guys willing to take and look like a traditional financial bank because that's a totally different investor base at a totally different kind of company.

好的。好的。然後只是關於更大的問題。我的意思是你的大多數投資者和分析師都來自技術方面。當你說你想在金融服務領域獲得更多發展時，你們願意承擔多少信用風險並且看起來像傳統金融銀行，因為這是完全不同類型公司的完全不同的投資者基礎。

Yes, Bryan, you're right. That's eventually a different dynamic. So as I answered the question from Mario, we are a tech company that offer financial services and also payments. But of course, it's unavoidable that we, at some point, we're going to take some credit risk. At this point, we don't have this appetite. We stopped giving credit without collateral in the first quarter 2022. Since then, 100% of the new or the underwriting is 100% secured. .

是的，布萊恩，你是對的。這最終是一種不同的動力。因此，當我回答馬里奧的問題時，我們是一家提供金融服務和支付服務的科技公司。但當然，我們不可避免地會在某個時候承擔一些信用風險。在這一點上，我們沒有這個胃口。我們在 2022 年第一季度停止提供沒有抵押品的信貸。從那時起，100% 的新的或承銷的都是 100% 有擔保的。 .

As you can see in our deck of slides today, 44% of our credit portfolio is 100% secured. And we don't think that's going to change in the following quarters. But as some sometime in the future, we will start giving some credit without collateral. Of course, starting with the clients that we already have in the base. But by now, the macroeconomic scenario doesn't help us to have this appetite. We can see even the big banks in Brazil having some -- struggling to charge some of their clients seeing higher NPLs, not to say about the macroeconomic environment in the world.

正如您在我們今天的幻燈片中看到的那樣，我們 44% 的信貸組合是 100% 安全的。我們認為這在接下來的幾個季度不會改變。但在未來的某個時候，我們將開始提供一些沒有抵押品的信貸。當然，從我們基地已有的客戶開始。但到目前為止，宏觀經濟形勢並沒有幫助我們有這種胃口。我們可以看到，即使是巴西的大銀行也有一些——努力向他們的一些客戶收取更高的不良貸款，更不用說世界的宏觀經濟環境了。

So here, we are accelerating in the 100% secured. We found a way to grow PagBank in a sustainable way with the best profitability through the secured products. And we don't think that's going to change in the future. That's the big picture of the company. In terms of the investor base and the point that you brought, I don't think that should change that much because, at the end of the day, we are a tech company. We have a diversified products offering here. So we will not be a company that is going to rely in credit in the near future. So that's what we expect.

所以在這裡，我們正在加速 100% 安全。我們找到了一種通過安全產品以可持續方式發展 PagBank 並獲得最佳盈利能力的方法。我們認為這在未來不會改變。這就是公司的大局。就投資者基礎和你提出的觀點而言，我認為這不會有太大變化，因為歸根結底，我們是一家科技公司。我們在這裡提供多樣化的產品。所以我們在不久的將來不會成為一家依賴信用的公司。這就是我們所期望的。

Our next question comes from Pedro Leduc, Itaú BBA.

我們的下一個問題來自 Itaú BBA 的 Pedro Leduc。

A little bit on the losses in operating expenses lines that are a little more on your control. First, on losses, very good delivery here on reducing chargebacks. I would want to understand if you think this is just a path that started got to do with the cleanup of the base, if there's more to go. Also on the credit losses on the portfolio, unless you've been adjusting and if this is maybe a new run rate here in terms of cost of risk is BRL 40 million.

一點點關於運營費用線的損失，這些損失更多地在您的控制之下。首先，關於損失，在減少退單方面非常好。我想了解您是否認為這只是一條開始與清理基地有關的道路，如果還有更多工作要做。同樣關於投資組合的信用損失，除非你一直在調整，如果這可能是一個新的運行率，就風險成本而言是 4000 萬雷亞爾。

And then later, I'll jump on to the OpEx side. But first on the losses, chargebacks and credit, please?

稍後，我將跳到 OpEx 方面。但首先是關於損失、拒付和信用額度，好嗎？

Pedro, it's Arthur speaking. So related to total losses, it's -- the reductions that we are having right now, it's 50% in comparison to Q1 '22, 30% in comparison to Q4. That was 30% better than Q3 in '22 and totally as a result of the shift of our credit portfolio from unsecured products to secured products. And we expect that we continue to have good results in terms of losses that as Dutra mentioned, is the right path that we identify to move PagBank to the profitability.

佩德羅，我是亞瑟。與總損失相關的是——我們現在的減少量，與 22 年第一季度相比減少了 50%，與第四季度相比減少了 30%。這比 22 年第三季度好 30%，這完全是我們的信貸組合從無擔保產品轉向有擔保產品的結果。正如 Dutra 所提到的，我們希望我們在虧損方面繼續取得良好的結果，這是我們確定將 PagBank 推向盈利的正確途徑。

Okay. And on the chargeback side of the losses?

好的。在損失的退款方面？

I'm sorry. Inside the total losses, we have the chargebacks that also improved in comparison to 2022. So we did a great job here, in my opinion, in terms of fraud prevention, and all the systems, teams and process that we developed during 2022 to help our acquiring business to perform in a good way to control chargebacks.

對不起。在總損失中，我們的退款與 2022 年相比也有所改善。因此，在我看來，我們在預防欺詐方面做得很好，我們在 2022 年開發的所有系統、團隊和流程都有助於我們的收單業務能夠很好地控制退單。

And important to say, Pedro, this is Éric, that our unique value proposition that offers to merchants instant settlement does not necessarily increase chargebacks. And this is something that we have been improving our systems, improving our KYC processes in order to further decrease chargebacks as a percentage of TPV.

重要的是，Pedro，這是 Éric，我們為商家提供即時結算的獨特價值主張不一定會增加拒付。這是我們一直在改進我們的系統，改進我們的 KYC 流程，以進一步降低拒付佔 TPV 的百分比。

If I may, on the second question and for the operating expenses. First, if you could help us on the personnel side, there's a 11% increase year-over-year. You mentioned there's a one-off impact related to the downsizing. Can you just help us understand how this 11% would look like without this one-off impact?

如果可以的話，關於第二個問題和運營費用。首先，如果你能在人事方面幫助我們，同比增長 11%。你提到裁員會產生一次性影響。您能否幫助我們了解如果沒有這種一次性影響，這 11% 會是什麼樣子？

And then the second there, on the marketing advertising run rate for the remainder of the year, if you think this lower level here is something that is more reasonable for this environment.

然後是第二個，關於今年剩餘時間的營銷廣告運行率，如果你認為這裡較低的水平對於這種環境來說更合理。

Okay. In personnel expenses, you are right, we have this head count resizing in the beginning of this year in January. And the severance cost was around BRL 11 million, BRL 12 million that was a nonrecurring item for the Q1. And also in terms of marketing expenses, we are expecting to expand a little bit more than Q1 -- in Q2 because of this, I would say, rebranding of PagBank -- PagSeguro to PagBank. But we will continue to apply our disciplined cost control, not only for OpEx but CapEx. And the best that we can do right now is control costs as much as possible to keep our company healthy.

好的。在人事費用方面，你是對的，我們在今年 1 月份的時候對人數進行了調整。遣散費約為 1100 萬雷亞爾，其中 1200 萬雷亞爾是第一季度的非經常性項目。而且在營銷費用方面，我們預計會比第一季度擴大一點——在第二季度，因為這個，我想說，PagBank 的品牌重塑——PagSeguro 到 PagBank。但我們將繼續應用嚴格的成本控制，不僅針對運營支出，還針對資本支出。我們現在能做的最好的事情就是盡可能地控製成本，以保持我們公司的健康。

Our next question comes from Neha Agarwala, HSBC.

我們的下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Neha Agarwala。

Apologies if there's any disservice. My first question is on choosing the brand PagBank. I believe PagSeguro created a very strong brand name in the acquiring business, especially in the long tail. And I'm sure you've done studies to understand what will be the impact of moving from PagSeguro brand to PagBank brand, how seamless do you think would it be for your customers? So if you could comment on that?

如果有任何損害，我們深表歉意。我的第一個問題是選擇 PagBank 這個品牌。我相信 PagSeguro 在收購業務中創造了一個非常強大的品牌名稱，尤其是在長尾。而且我相信您已經完成研究以了解從 PagSeguro 品牌轉移到 PagBank 品牌會產生什麼影響，您認為這對您的客戶來說會有多無縫？那麼，您是否可以對此發表評論？

And my next question is, I understand you do not break down your TPV by how much is large accounts, how much is SMB. But could you give us some sense of what is the take rates in the large accounts at sub-acquire segment? Because from what we understand, looking at your peers, the take rates are much lower for that part of the business, which probably is about 30%, 40% of the business by now. If you could give some sense about where the take rates are, what kind of portion do you see?

我的下一個問題是，我知道您不會按大客戶有多少，SMB 有多少來分解您的 TPV。但是你能告訴我們一些關於子收購部分大客戶的採用率是多少嗎？因為據我們了解，看看你的同行，這部分業務的採用率要低得多，現在可能大約佔業務的 30%、40%。如果您能說出抽取率在哪裡，您會看到什麼樣的部分？

And where is it headed? Do you plan to increase your share in the large accounts in the sub-acquirers? Or are you planning to reduce your share there? Some color on how the TPV mix should evolve, that would be very helpful.

它要去哪裡？您是否計劃增加您在子收購方的大客戶中的份額？或者你打算減少你在那裡的份額？關於 TPV 混合應如何演變的一些顏色，這將非常有幫助。

Neha, regarding the brand, you're right, we have a strong brand with PagSeguro, but we also have a strong brand with PagBank. I know we started PagSeguro before PagBank, and that was the beginning of the company offering POSs, but we launched PagBank in 2019. So we are completing now 4 years, and it also has a very strong brand already in Brazil.

Neha，關於品牌，你是對的，我們擁有強大的 PagSeguro 品牌，但我們也擁有強大的 PagBank 品牌。我知道我們在 PagBank 之前創立了 PagSeguro，那是公司提供 POS 的開始，但我們在 2019 年推出了 PagBank。所以我們現在已經完成了 4 年，它在巴西也已經擁有非常強大的品牌。

Many of our merchants use both of the brands. They sell to the POS, and they make the transactions, and they use the app. And the app they use their PagBank already since the beginning. So -- and of course, we will not make the migration from 1 day to the other. That's something that we will start to use more and more PagBank, but the POS they have there still use PagSeguro. So while making this transition, there is this communication project so that we can communicate our base that PagSeguro is now PagBank and so on.

我們的許多商家同時使用這兩個品牌。他們向 POS 銷售，進行交易，然後使用該應用程序。他們從一開始就使用 PagBank 的應用程序。所以——當然，我們不會從一天遷移到另一天。這是我們將開始使用越來越多的 PagBank 的東西，但他們在那裡的 POS 仍然使用 PagSeguro。因此，在進行此過渡時，有一個通信項目，以便我們可以傳達我們的基礎，即 PagSeguro 現在是 PagBank 等等。

So we don't see there's going to be friction there. Because -- mainly because many of our clients already use the app PagBank when they want to cash out or use our cards and so on. Regarding the second question...

所以我們看不到那裡會有摩擦。因為 - 主要是因為我們的許多客戶在想要兌現或使用我們的卡等時已經使用了應用程序 PagBank。關於第二個問題...

And Neha, this is Alex Magnani. Just to give you more color on that question regarding to the brand. Today, 60% of our active customer base use only PagBank has relationship only with financial service. And out of the 40% remaining, which is the merchant base that primarily uses the acquiring service, 90% of them uses PagBank, too. So these customers, they use on a daily basis our PagBank app. And since 2019, our POS terminals are PagBank-branded only, and all of our cards issued since then are also PagBank-branded only.

Neha，這是 Alex Magnani。只是為了讓您對有關品牌的問題有更多的了解。今天，我們 60% 的活躍客戶群只使用 PagBank，只與金融服務有關係。在剩下的 40%（主要使用收單服務的商家群）中，90% 的人也使用 PagBank。因此，這些客戶每天都在使用我們的 PagBank 應用程序。自 2019 年以來，我們的 POS 終端僅使用 PagBank 品牌，此後發行的所有卡也僅使用 PagBank 品牌。

Yes. So the second question about take rates and the moving parts, Neha. You're right, we don't give this disclosure about the percent of TPV coming from large accounts and sub-acquirers. But I'd say you that if you look at the market, the other players that are more focused on large accounts and sub-acquirers, our net take rate is similar to them. So it's not that different, similar to what other players in the market that operate in this type of clients have.

是的。那麼關於利率和移動部件的第二個問題，Neha。你是對的，我們沒有披露來自大客戶和子收購方的 TPV 百分比。但我要說的是，如果你看看市場，其他更專注於大客戶和子收購方的參與者，我們的淨收入率與他們相似。所以它並沒有什麼不同，類似於市場上在這類客戶中運營的其他參與者所擁有的。

As you can see or as you know, it's much lower than what you have in SMBs and also in micro-merchants. We will look for accounts that have positive net take rates, that has some returns that we think is feasible for the capital of the company. And again, we are not concerned about the market share of total TPV. We will focus on the key segments that we decided last year, which is micro-merchants and SMBs.

如您所見或所知，它比您在 SMB 和微型商戶中擁有的要低得多。我們將尋找具有正淨收益率的賬戶，這些賬戶具有我們認為對公司資本而言可行的回報。同樣，我們並不關心整個 TPV 的市場份額。我們將專注於我們去年確定的關鍵細分市場，即微商和中小企業。

And with all the moving parts and even some large accounts that we will get because, of course, we may lose some large accounts, but some of the clients come to us because they want to work with us and even sub-acquirers. So with all these moving parts, that's why I answered in the previous question that we expect to net take rate to be stable throughout the year, except Q4, because of the seasonality of debit card transaction.

有了所有的移動部分，甚至我們會得到一些大客戶，因為當然，我們可能會失去一些大客戶，但一些客戶來找我們是因為他們想與我們甚至子收購方合作。因此，對於所有這些變動的部分，這就是為什麼我在上一個問題中回答說，由於借記卡交易的季節性，我們預計除第四季度外，全年淨利率將保持穩定。

We have not talked much about exposure to large accounts or sub-acquirers in the previous quarters. This is something that we're talking about in this particular quarter. So what led to this kind of pivot to having exposure to large accounts? Because you started from the bottom of the pyramid, you moved up to SMB, but we never really talked about gaining exposure to the large accounts.

在前幾個季度，我們沒有過多談論對大客戶或次級收購方的敞口。這是我們在這個特定季度討論的內容。那麼，是什麼導致這種轉向接觸大賬戶的呢？因為你從金字塔的底部開始，你向上移動到 SMB，但我們從未真正談論過接觸大客戶。

So -- has this been something that you've been planning for the past couple of quarters? Or do you see opportunities coming your way, which makes sense economically? And that's why in the last 1 or 2 quarters, you're gaining more share in large accounts? How has that come through? That's my last question.

那麼 - 這是您過去幾個季度一直在計劃的事情嗎？還是您看到了機會，這在經濟上是有意義的？這就是為什麼在過去的 1 或 2 個季度中，您在大客戶中獲得了更多份額？這是怎麼發生的？這是我的最後一個問題。

Neha, we may not say that, I'd say, the exposure, but we always said that we have large accounts. Remember, we started e-commerce back there. And e-commerce at the beginning, we had also large accounts. We bought the other company acquired in 2020, and then we brought some large accounts in e-commerce. So we always had some large accounts and even sub-acquirers. We also had some sub-acquirers.

Neha，我們可能不會這麼說，我會說曝光，但我們總是說我們有大客戶。請記住，我們在那裡開始了電子商務。電子商務一開始，我們也有大客戶。我們在2020年收購了另一家公司，然後我們在電子商務方面帶來了一些大客戶。所以我們總是有一些大客戶，甚至是子收購方。我們也有一些子收購方。

We're not saying that we will not focus on this type of clients anymore. We are just saying that we will not compete with price with players that are looking for market share. We'll keep working with this type of clients once they have the returns that we think is feasible and sustainable for the company. So just to be clear here, we always have this type of clients. We worked with them. Some of them come to us because they wanted to work with them -- with us. Sub-acquirers came to work with us because they like our POS.

我們並不是說我們將不再關注這類客戶。我們只是說我們不會與正在尋找市場份額的玩家進行價格競爭。一旦他們獲得我們認為對公司而言可行且可持續的回報，我們將繼續與此類客戶合作。所以在這裡要明確一點，我們總是有這種類型的客戶。我們與他們合作。他們中的一些人來找我們是因為他們想和他們一起工作——和我們一起。次級收單機構之所以與我們合作，是因為他們喜歡我們的 POS。

So this type of clients that we always had in the base, and it was not the main focus of the company, and it won't be the main focus of the company. I guess what you're saying here in this slide, when you say the growth of TPV of 16% is that we did not make too much effort to keep accounts with net take rates that are not sustainable or not in the level that the company expects to have.

所以我們一直在基地的這類客戶，它不是公司的主要關注點，也不會成為公司的主要關注點。我猜你在這張幻燈片中說的是什麼，當你說 TPV 增長 16% 是因為我們沒有付出太多努力來保持淨收入率不可持續或不在公司水平的賬戶期望有。

Our next question comes from Soomit Datta, New Street Research.

我們的下一個問題來自 New Street Research 的 Soomit Datta。

A couple of questions, please. Just first of all, on PagBank merchant base versus the acquiring merchant base. The 2 are kind of moving in sync or alternatively put the PagBank merchants as a percent of acquiring merchants is pretty stable at around 90%. I guess, given you're losing nano-merchants or you're willing to lose nano-merchants, I would have thought your kind of percent of acquiring merchants, which are PagBank, would be going up and up, but it seems to be stable. So I'm just curious, as you kind of move up the pyramid, why that sort of percentage increasing? That's the first question, please. And then secondly, why don't I hold it there, and then if we could go with that one first, please.

請問幾個問題。首先，在 PagBank 商戶基礎與收單商戶基礎上。兩者有點同步，或者說 PagBank 商戶佔收單商戶的百分比相當穩定，約為 90%。我想，考慮到你正在失去納米商戶或者你願意失去納米商戶，我本以為你收購商戶的百分比，也就是 PagBank，會越來越高，但它似乎是穩定的。所以我很好奇，隨著金字塔的上升，為什麼百分比會增加？這是第一個問題，請。其次，為什麼我不把它放在那裡，然後如果我們可以先處理那個，請。

Soomit, this is Éric. Just to recap here, you're asking about the merchants engaged in PagBank that we basically had a slightly decrease in this number. Am I right?

Soomit，這是埃里克。在這裡回顧一下，你問的是從事 PagBank 的商家，我們基本上這個數字略有下降。我對嗎？

Yes, exactly. Exactly. So as you lose your acquiring merchant, that's typically the kind of low kind of TPV nano-merchants who I would have thought would not be necessarily PagBank customers.

對，就是這樣。確切地。因此，當你失去你的收單商時，那通常是那種我認為不一定是 PagBank 客戶的低 TPV 納米商戶。

Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. So just to answer your question, I think it's important to highlight that, for the long-tail clients base that we have, which is composed by nano-merchants and micro-merchants, I would say to you that probably 100% of them are engaged in PagBank. So necessarily, as we run off and de-prioritize nano-merchants, which are barely profitable, we necessarily tend to lose these clients at first glance in PagBank.

完美的。謝謝。謝謝。因此，為了回答你的問題，我認為重要的是要強調，對於我們擁有的由納米商戶和微型商戶組成的長尾客戶群，我想告訴你，他們中的 100% 可能是從事 PagBank。所以必然地，當我們跑掉並取消優先考慮幾乎無法盈利的納米商戶時，我們必然傾向於在 PagBank 中失去這些客戶。

But if you take a look closer to the PagBank clients of merchants, this decrease is lower than the decrease in the active merchants because we have several nano-merchants that, for example, got back to the formal economy and still works with us, but they receive a monthly paycheck and use PagBank as their primary bank. So this doesn't concern us. In fact, we have an opportunity to further cross-sell other products for them.

但是如果你仔細觀察商家的 PagBank 客戶，這個減少量低於活躍商家的減少量，因為我們有幾個納米商家，例如，回到正規經濟並仍然與我們合作，但他們每月領取薪水，並使用 PagBank 作為他們的主要銀行。所以這與我們無關。事實上，我們有機會進一步為他們交叉銷售其他產品。

And as we keep moving that market, our concern here is not anymore growing very rapidly our number of clients because we already have 13% of the Brazilian population having a relationship with us. Our focus is increase the cross-sell of Financial Services, increase deposits per clients and necessarily increase profitability per client. This is our goal.

隨著我們繼續推動該市場，我們在這裡的擔憂不再是我們的客戶數量快速增長，因為我們已經有 13% 的巴西人口與我們建立了關係。我們的重點是增加金融服務的交叉銷售，增加每個客戶的存款，並必然增加每個客戶的盈利能力。這是我們的目標。

Okay. That's clear. And maybe a quick follow-up, if that's okay, just on, again, sort of Financial Services profitability. Either on the old or the new EBITDA basis, if we could pro forma that EBITDA for the interchange cap, is it fair to say that Financial Services is now EBITDA positive and those no reason to think it won't stay that way going forward?

好的。這很清楚。如果可以的話，也許可以快速跟進，再次關注金融服務的盈利能力。無論是在舊的還是新的 EBITDA 基礎上，如果我們可以為交換上限計算 EBITDA，是否可以公平地說金融服務現在 EBITDA 為正，而那些沒有理由認為它不會繼續保持這種狀態？

Thanks for the question, Soomit. This is Éric again. Naturally, as the interchange cap came in force since April 1 of this year, as we disclosed previously in our material facts, we expect a negligible impact in our bottom line. In Financial Services vertical, necessarily revenues should decrease, but the gross profit and EBITDA evolution should decrease not in the same magnitude. So investors should expect a lower revenue in 2023 versus 2022 in the Financial Services vertical, but to be completely offset by the savings in the merchant acquiring it.

謝謝你的問題，Soomit。這又是埃里克。當然，由於交換上限自今年 4 月 1 日起生效，正如我們之前在重要事實中披露的那樣，我們預計對我們的底線的影響可以忽略不計。在垂直金融服務領域，收入必然會下降，但毛利和 EBITDA 的變化應該不會下降相同的幅度。因此，投資者應該預計 2023 年金融服務垂直領域的收入將低於 2022 年，但這將完全被購買它的商家節省的資金所抵消。

And is it possible to say in absolute BRL terms what the sort of run rate is on a quarterly basis for that impact. I take your point, it's neutral to the group, but just in terms of modeling out the splits between the 2 parts of the business.

是否可以用絕對 BRL 術語來說明這種影響的季度運行率是多少？我同意你的觀點，這對團隊來說是中立的，但只是在模擬業務的兩個部分之間的分裂方面。

I think at this time, we are not giving any kind of ballpark of these impacts. We can evaluate here. But I think the main message is it's a negligible impact for bottom line. So any potential revenue and gross profit reduction in Financial Services vertical that analysts can assume should be completely offset by the savings in the merger and acquiring vertical.

我認為此時，我們還沒有給出這些影響的任何概況。我們可以在這裡進行評估。但我認為主要信息是它對底線的影響可以忽略不計。因此，分析師可以假設的金融服務垂直領域的任何潛在收入和毛利減少都應該完全被合併和收購垂直領域的節省所抵消。

Our next question comes from Josh Siegler, Cantor Fitzgerald.

我們的下一個問題來自 Josh Siegler、Cantor Fitzgerald。

I think to start with, can you discuss how competition has trended specifically in the payment space? Are you still seeing rational pricing from some of your peers?

我想首先，你能討論一下支付領域的競爭趨勢如何嗎？您是否仍然看到一些同行的理性定價？

Josh, thank you for the question. Yes, we are seeing rational pricing from the peers that we compete with, mainly in the micro-merchants and SMBs. We cannot say about the guys that are looking for larger clients because you see some changes in market share in Q1 between the big acquirers. But in the markets that we are competing, that we were focused, which is micro-merchant SMEs, we are seeing very rational prices. Everyone looking for profitability, as you could see in the quarter call results from us and from other players. So yes, that's the rational pricing at this point. .

喬希，謝謝你的提問。是的，我們看到與我們競爭的同行的合理定價，主要是在微型商戶和 SMB 中。我們不能說那些正在尋找大客戶的人，因為你看到大型收購者在第一季度的市場份額發生了一些變化。但在我們競爭的市場，我們關注的市場，即微型商戶中小企業，我們看到非常合理的價格。每個人都在尋找盈利能力，正如您在我們和其他參與者的季度電話會議結果中所看到的那樣。所以是的，這就是此時的合理定價。 .

And we don't think it's going to change because interest rates are high in Brazil. So everyone is looking for profitability. Of course, not only in Brazil, but around the world, and not only in payments industry, but also in all the industries. So everyone looking for profitability, so we don't think this rationale to change in the near future.

我們認為它不會改變，因為巴西的利率很高。所以每個人都在尋找盈利能力。當然，不僅是巴西，全世界都是如此，不僅是支付行業，所有行業都是如此。所以每個人都在尋找盈利能力，所以我們認為這種理由在不久的將來不會改變。

Okay. Great. I appreciate that. And then you guys have been repurchasing some shares recently. I'm curious how you're thinking about your capital allocation strategy moving forward.

好的。偉大的。我很感激。然後你們最近一直在回購一些股票。我很好奇你是如何考慮你未來的資本配置策略的。

Yes, it's Arthur speaking again. So the capital allocation strategy that we have today is based on the results that we have, we are reinvesting in the business, all the results that we have right now, or even using the good results that we are achieving to repay the expensive debt that we have are also reducing the CDs that we are issuing to fund in the operation. At this point, with 14% -- around 14% interest rate in the country, not makes sense to distribute dividends. It's something that we can rethink going forward, depending on the interest rate level.

是的，又是亞瑟說話了。因此，我們今天擁有的資本配置策略是基於我們擁有的結果，我們正在對業務進行再投資，我們現在擁有的所有結果，甚至使用我們正在取得的良好結果來償還昂貴的債務我們還減少了為行動提供資金而發行的 CD。在這一點上，以 14%——該國 14% 左右的利率，分配股息沒有意義。這是我們可以根據利率水平重新考慮的事情。

And the strategy that we are using to repurchase shares is based on the price of share, if it's a good opportunity for the company or not, the shares that we have in treasury is used it to distribute for the long-term incentive plan for employees. And at this point, we are using the buyback program that we launched in 2018. We achieved around 50% of this buyback program. And for now, we are thinking that we need to use the money to fund the operation.

我們回購股票的策略是基於股票價格，如果這對公司來說是一個好機會，我們庫存的股票將用於分配員工的長期激勵計劃.在這一點上，我們正在使用我們在 2018 年推出的回購計劃。我們實現了大約 50% 的回購計劃。目前，我們認為我們需要用這筆錢來資助這項行動。

Our next question comes from Kaio Prato, UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Kaio Prato。

I have 2 on my side, please. First, on the costs of PagBank. We saw a quarter-over-quarter drop, it decreased by 10% quarter-over-quarter. I understand that the TPV, and now, that the drop in deposits was actually higher. So just wondering if you can provide us some details behind that, please?

我這邊有 2 個。首先，關於 PagBank 的成本。我們看到環比下降，環比下降 10%。我知道 TPV，現在，存款的下降實際上更高。所以只是想知道你是否可以向我們提供一些背後的細節，好嗎？

And moreover, what do you expect in terms of deposit growth going forward? And my second question is related to CapEx. Just wonder if you could help us understand the moving parts on CapEx this quarter, both related to PP&E and intangibles? And what can we expect going forward in terms of growth for these 2 lines and on a consolidated basis as well?

此外，您對未來的存款增長有何預期？我的第二個問題與資本支出有關。只是想知道您是否可以幫助我們了解本季度資本支出的變動部分，包括與 PP&E 和無形資產相關的部分？在這兩條線的增長和綜合基礎上，我們可以期待什麼？

Thank you, Kaio, for your question. Regarding for the first point related to deposits, it's true that it reduced from Q4. The main impact comes from the seasonality. As you may know, in Brazil, there are a lot of bills to pay in the beginning of the year. And people use this money to pay those bills. One point that we are paying attention closely is to change the deposits that we are -- the CDs that we are issuing with third-party platforms and try to originate internally in our own platform. So we are trying to change the third party to our platform internally in PagBank.

謝謝你，Kaio，你的問題。關於存款相關的第一點，確實比四季度有所減少。主要影響來自季節性。您可能知道，在巴西，年初有很多賬單要支付。人們用這筆錢來支付這些賬單。我們密切關注的一點是改變我們的存款——我們通過第三方平台發行的 CD，並嘗試在我們自己的平台內部產生。所以我們正在嘗試在 PagBank 內部將第三方更改為我們的平台。

The second point is related to CapEx we achieved this quarter, BRL 408 million. It's much lower than Q1 '22. That impacted our cash earnings in a positive way. Last year, our cash earnings was BRL 17 million negative. And this year, close to BRL 400 million positive. In terms of CapEx going forward, we are expecting to have a lower CapEx per revenue in comparison to 2022 and more related to technology investments around 60% of technology investments versus 40% in POS acquisition.

第二點與我們本季度實現的 4.08 億雷亞爾資本支出有關。它遠低於 22 年第一季度。這對我們的現金收入產生了積極影響。去年，我們的現金收入為負 1700 萬雷亞爾。而今年，接近 4 億巴西雷亞爾。就未來的資本支出而言，我們預計與 2022 年相比，每項收入的資本支出將更低，更多與技術投資相關，約佔技術投資的 60%，而 POS 收購佔 40%。

And we'll continue to invest in CapEx for POSs in the same strategy that we launched last year, focusing on client selection with a high engagement and companion paybacks, combined to eventually some promotions that we can offer to the clients.

我們將繼續按照我們去年推出的相同戰略投資 POS 的資本支出，重點關注具有高參與度和同伴回報的客戶選擇，並最終結合我們可以為客戶提供的一些促銷活動。

Okay. This is clear. Just a quick follow-up on deposits question. I'm just wondering if you have any type of target in terms of deposit growth for this year that you could share with us?

好的。這很清楚。只是對存款問題的快速跟進。我只是想知道您是否有任何類型的今年存款增長目標可以與我們分享？

What I can say about deposits related to this question is that all of our management is focused to increase deposits. Deposits, as you know, is the cheapest funding source that we have after return on earnings. And we have all of the management focus to increase those deposits.

關於與這個問題相關的存款，我能說的是，我們所有的管理層都專注於增加存款。如您所知，存款是我們在收益回報後擁有的最便宜的資金來源。我們所有的管理重點都是增加這些存款。

Our next question comes from Eduardo Rosman, BTG Pactual.

我們的下一個問題來自 BTG Pactual 的 Eduardo Rosman。

I have a question here regarding all these noise related to the revolving credit card theme. I think the sector as a whole has been a little bit more under pressure recently. I think on concerns that something might happen with the parcelados, with no interest, right? So which, in theory, if that happens, that would be potentially bad for the prepayment business.

我在這裡有一個關於與循環信用卡主題相關的所有這些噪音的問題。我認為整個行業最近承受的壓力更大一些。我擔心 parcelados 可能會發生一些沒有興趣的事情，對吧？因此，從理論上講，如果發生這種情況，那可能對預付款業務不利。

So can you share your thoughts on what's being discussed? If you're being part of the working group, what's your belief here? I think, Alexandre, I saw, I don't know, some comments to broadcast. So I just want to make sure everybody is in the same page here.

那麼你能分享一下你對正在討論的內容的看法嗎？如果您是工作組的一員，您的信念是什麼？我想，Alexandre，我看到了一些要廣播的評論，我不知道。所以我只想確保每個人都在同一頁面上。

So Eduardo, thank you for the question. We know there have been some discussions with the Brazilian authorities about the possibility of implementing a cap on interest rates for revolving credit cards. As you may know, this discussion is not new and is being carefully evaluated by regulators. And of course, regulators talked to everyone. What we may say from the government or from the regulators in the past years, the Brazilian government, both Brazilian government and regulators, they have been playing a very relevant role to promote competition and financial inclusion in Brazil. And of course, they listen to everyone. .

Eduardo，謝謝你提出這個問題。我們知道已經與巴西當局就對循環信用卡實施利率上限的可能性進行了一些討論。如您所知，這種討論並不新鮮，監管機構正在對其進行仔細評估。當然，監管機構與所有人進行了交談。在過去的幾年裡，我們可能會從政府或監管機構那裡說些什麼，巴西政府，巴西政府和監管機構，他們一直在促進巴西的競爭和金融包容性方面發揮著非常重要的作用。當然，他們會傾聽每個人的意見。 .

So just before I go straight to your question, some of the players link this cap in interest rates with changes in installments. As you may know as well, interchange in Brazil is 1 of the highest in the world. Credit card business in Brazil is very profitable. But as I said, some of the players try to link this discussion with the change in installments, which, in our view, is very unlikely to have or to happen any change in installments because of many reasons.

所以就在我直接回答你的問題之前，一些參與者將這個利率上限與分期付款的變化聯繫起來。您可能也知道，巴西的交流是世界上最高的交流之一。巴西的信用卡業務非常有利可圖。但正如我所說，一些參與者試圖將此討論與分期付款的變化聯繫起來，在我們看來，由於多種原因，分期付款不太可能發生或發生任何變化。

But the main 2, I would say, change in installment is not the way to decrease the high interest rates in revolving credit lines. By change installments, revolving lines will not decrease. So that's not linked with one topic to the other. And the other one is that Installments are very important for the economy in Brazil. They are 50% of the total volume of credit cards, the total volume that we have transaction in Brazil, 50% is made through installments. In 2022, that number was BRL 1 trillion, 10% of Brazilian GDP is largely accepted by merchants from any sizes. And of course, it gives the power of consumption for consumers, mainly low-income people that don't have the money to buy without installments.

但主要的 2，我想說，分期付款的變化並不是降低循環信貸額度高利率的方法。通過分期付款，循環線不會減少。因此，這與一個主題與另一個主題無關。另一個是分期付款對巴西的經濟非常重要。它們佔信用卡總量的 50%，即我們在巴西進行的交易總量，其中 50% 是通過分期付款進行的。到 2022 年，這個數字是 1 萬億巴西雷亞爾，巴西 GDP 的 10% 基本上被各種規模的商人所接受。當然，它給了消費者消費的權力，主要是那些沒有錢不分期付款的低收入人群。

It is also the cheapest working capital for merchants. So we think that any change in installments is very unlikely to happen because it doesn't solve the origin ration of the discussion and is very important for the economy. So that's our view at this point.

這也是商家最便宜的營運資金。所以我們認為分期付款的任何變化都不太可能發生，因為它沒有解決討論的原始比率並且對經濟非常重要。這就是我們目前的觀點。

Our next question comes from Geoffrey Elliott, Autonomous.

我們的下一個問題來自 Autonomous 的 Geoffrey Elliott。

I know you've introduced some new offers on the website [Vista Maximize], which look quite a bit more competitive in terms of pricing than what you're advertising previously. Who are you marketing those at? And what are you doing to mitigate the risk of cannibalization of clients on the older offers with higher pricing, trying to move on to the newer cheaper ones?

我知道你們在 [Vista Maximize] 網站上推出了一些新優惠，它們在定價方面看起來比你們之前宣傳的更具競爭力。你在向誰營銷？您正在採取什麼措施來降低客戶在價格較高的舊產品上被蠶食的風險，並試圖轉向較新的更便宜的產品？

Geoffrey, thank you for the question. We always make promotions. Some of the promotions we do through online, targeting some type of merchants. Some of the promotions targeted some type of consumers. And we also make some tests in our website. Of course, we -- a large part of our demand comes from paid media and from media that we buy for third parties. And part of the demand comes from the website. .

杰弗裡，謝謝你的提問。我們總是做促銷。我們通過在線進行的一些促銷活動，針對某種類型的商家。一些促銷活動針對某種類型的消費者。我們也在我們的網站上進行了一些測試。當然，我們——我們的很大一部分需求來自付費媒體和我們為第三方購買的媒體。而部分需求來自於網站。 .

The promotions that we are making, website, they require the merchant to have a minimum TPV of BRL 3,000 per month. So it's not for everyone. And we are always, of course, looking in the terms of attrition with the clients that we have in the base. That's not an issue at this point. That's something very common for companies like us when you have millions of clients, right? It's very common when you have a telecom company and then eventually, you see a promotion from a telecom company that you are a client and then you are having a better condition there or the new client than the other one, but that's part of the dynamic of the business.

我們在網站上進行的促銷活動要求商家每月的 TPV 至少為 3,000 巴西雷亞爾。所以它並不適合所有人。當然，我們一直在關注基地客戶的流失情況。目前這不是問題。當您擁有數百萬客戶時，這對於像我們這樣的公司來說很常見，對嗎？當你有一家電信公司時，這是很常見的，然後最終，你看到一家電信公司的促銷活動，說你是客戶，然後你在那里或新客戶的條件比另一個更好，但這是動態的一部分的業務。

We try to control that eventually in the call center in a more reactive way. But I don't think that's an issue at this point because we are requiring a minimum TPV, and there are some other requirements as well. So it's part of the dynamic of the business to make promotions and turn off and try the cohort, see what's going on. If they're going to have a TPV that is much larger than the BRL 3,000, if you're going to use PagBank. So -- but it's part of the promotion, it's not something that we are changing the way that the company operates.

我們嘗試以一種更具反應性的方式最終在呼叫中心控制它。但我認為目前這不是問題，因為我們需要最低 TPV，還有一些其他要求。因此，進行促銷並關閉並嘗試隊列是業務動態的一部分，看看發生了什麼。如果他們要擁有比 3,000 巴西雷亞爾大得多的 TPV，如果您要使用 PagBank。所以 - 但這是促銷的一部分，這不是我們正在改變公司運營方式的東西。

And then maybe just to clarify on some of the comments from earlier on. You talked about the prepaid interchange cap. And then you talked about adjusted net income being similar to what you delivered in the first quarter. Was that just a statement saying the interchange cap is not going to have a significant bottom line impact? Or was that more an all-encompassing statement saying that you think 2Q net income plus or minus, is going to look similar to the first quarter.

然後可能只是為了澄清之前的一些意見。您談到了預付費交換上限。然後你談到調整後的淨收入與第一季度的收入相似。這只是一份聲明，表示交換上限不會對底線產生重大影響嗎？或者，這是一份包羅萬象的聲明，表示您認為第二季度淨收入的增減與第一季度相似。

Geoffrey, well, thank you for the question because it's an opportunity to clarify that. What we are saying is that with the change in the cap and interchange for prepaid cards that started in April 1, didn't change the net income of the company as a whole because the benefit that we had in acquiring business by having a lower interchange is very similar in absolute terms than the losses that we had in the revenues from the PagBank as a card issuer.

Geoffrey，謝謝你提出這個問題，因為這是一個澄清這個問題的機會。我們所說的是，隨著 4 月 1 日開始的預付卡上限和交換的變化，並沒有改變整個公司的淨收入，因為我們通過較低的交換獲得業務的好處從絕對意義上講，這與我們作為發卡機構從 PagBank 獲得的收入損失非常相似。

So it's -- we are just saying that the change in the cap and interchange for prepaid cards is neutral to the company as a whole. We are not saying that the net income is going to be the same in Q2 versus Q1 or things like that. We're just saying that this cap in interchange did not impact the expected net income of the company because the impact of these moving parts, puts and takes, it's 0, is neutral. So that's why we try to say that. And let me know if it's not that clear -- it's not clear.

所以它 - 我們只是說預付卡上限和交換的變化對整個公司來說是中性的。我們並不是說第二季度的淨收入與第一季度的淨收入相同或類似的東西。我們只是說這個交換上限不會影響公司的預期淨收入，因為這些移動部件的影響，看跌期權，它是 0，是中性的。所以這就是為什麼我們要這麼說。如果不是那麼清楚，請告訴我——不是很清楚。

It was totally clear the second time.

第二次就完全清楚了。

Our next question comes from Juan Ricardo Scotiabank.

我們的下一個問題來自 Juan Ricardo Scotiabank。

My question is related to the NPL ratio. I noticed declined from around 30% or more than 30% in the fourth quarter to 18% this quarter. So can you talk about what drove this improvement, whether there were some sales of loans or write-offs? And also, can you comment on how you see asset quality evolving? And how do you think that the credit portfolio can grow in the rest of 2023?

我的問題與不良貸款率有關。我注意到從第四季度的 30% 左右或超過 30% 下降到本季度的 18%。那麼你能談談是什麼推動了這種改善，是否有一些貸款銷售或註銷？此外，您能否評論一下您如何看待資產質量的演變？您如何看待信貸組合在 2023 年剩餘時間裡的增長？

Okay. Well, it's Arthur speaking again. Thank you for your question. It's important to clarify that the numbers that you have in the income statement is related to past due. So all the calculations there in terms of percentage of our portfolio is a past due when the installment is not paid, so you have this past due. This quarter, we decided to give this information more clear in the Slide 8 in the webcast presentation and the NPLs for 90 days in Q1 '22 achieved 22.4%. The worst moment was in Q2 '22. And next quarter, you will see that.

好的。嗯，又是亞瑟說話了。謝謝你的問題。重要的是要澄清您在損益表中的數字與逾期有關。因此，當分期付款未支付時，根據我們投資組合的百分比進行的所有計算都是逾期的，所以你有這個逾期。本季度，我們決定在網絡廣播演示文稿的幻燈片 8 中更清楚地提供此信息，22 年第一季度的 90 天不良貸款率達到 22.4%。最糟糕的時刻是在 22 年第二季度。下個季度，你會看到這一點。

And now we have 17.9%. And since June, we have a reduction in this NPL in 90 days. And also, it's important to mention that our secured credit portfolio presented 1% of NPL. So our whole portfolio is moving down pretty fast and quarter-over-quarter. And the main impact related to that is because our credit underwriting now is 100% focused on secured products.

現在我們有 17.9%。自 6 月以來，我們在 90 天內減少了不良貸款。此外，值得一提的是，我們的擔保信貸組合佔不良貸款的 1%。因此，我們的整個投資組合正在快速下降，而且環比下降。與此相關的主要影響是因為我們的信用承銷現在 100% 專注於有擔保的產品。

And the same page in the webcast, you can see that our total portfolio now is split in 44% secured products, 56% unsecured products. And the strategy going forward is continue to underwriting secured products related to payroll loans and also credit card backed by CDs or balanced account reserve.

在網絡廣播的同一頁面上，您可以看到我們現在的總投資組合分為 44% 的安全產品和 56% 的非安全產品。未來的戰略是繼續承銷與工資貸款相關的擔保產品，以及由 CD 或平衡賬戶準備金支持的信用卡。

And Juan, it's important to mention that most of financial institutions, they write down their nonperforming loans after 360 days. And we did not write down yet for exclusively tax planning reasons, okay? For the coming quarters, we do expect to start to write down these NPLs over 360 days. And this is why there is a mismatch between the NPL 90 days that we provide in our presentation in comparison to the financial statements that disclose the full nonperforming loans over 90 days, considering the NPLs over 360 days. We are very comfortable about the provision levels, so necessarily a down trend in NPLs is something natural moving forward.

Juan，重要的是要提到大多數金融機構，他們會在 360 天后減記不良貸款。而且我們還沒有完全出於稅收籌劃的原因而減記，好嗎？對於未來幾個季度，我們確實希望在 360 天內開始減記這些不良貸款。考慮到超過 360 天的不良貸款，這就是為什麼我們在演示文稿中提供的 90 天不良貸款與披露超過 90 天的全部不良貸款的財務報表不匹配的原因。我們對準備金水平感到非常滿意，因此不良貸款的下降趨勢必然是自然而然的事情。

Our next question comes from William Paine, Susquehanna.

我們的下一個問題來自 Susquehanna 的 William Paine。

I wanted to ask about NPLs as well. So I noticed on Slide 8. It looks like your 90-day plus NPL ratio has been going down. Can you say a few words about the status of the Brazilian consumer credit quality? I imagine some of that decrease that you see is perhaps due to the shift towards more secured lending, but any commentary on consumer credit quality would be helpful.

我也想問一下不良貸款。所以我在幻燈片 8 上註意到。看起來你的 90 天以上的不良貸款率一直在下降。您能談談巴西消費信貸質量的現狀嗎？我想你看到的部分下降可能是由於轉向更有保障的貸款，但任何關於消費者信貸質量的評論都會有所幫助。

I will. This is Éric. I think since we made some changes in our management team in terms of risk management, we have been delivering lots of improvements on the credit risk assessment processes and KYC. So necessarily, this implies to say that as we keep underwriting secured products in the short term and keep proving our risk assessment models. As the economy improves, there's a natural path to restore unsecured credit products in the future.

我會。這是埃里克。我認為，自從我們在風險管理方面對管理團隊進行了一些調整以來，我們一直在對信用風險評估流程和 KYC 進行大量改進。因此，這必然意味著我們在短期內繼續承保安全產品並不斷證明我們的風險評估模型。隨著經濟的好轉，未來有恢復無擔保信貸產品的自然途徑。

They struggle for the credit industry in Brazil or the main question is related to when the asset quality will improve. And in our case, it's the opposite because since we took the decision in early '22 to focus exclusively on secured products, our NPLs peaked in June '22, and they have trending down since then. So the asset quality concerns that surround the Brazilian credit industry does not affect us because we already changed our credit underwriting, focused on secured products in early '22.

他們為巴西的信貸行業而鬥爭，或者主要問題與資產質量何時改善有關。而在我們的案例中，情況恰恰相反，因為自從我們在 22 年初決定專注於安全產品以來，我們的不良貸款在 22 年 6 月達到頂峰，此後一直呈下降趨勢。因此，圍繞巴西信貸行業的資產質量問題不會影響我們，因為我們已經改變了我們的信貸承保，在 22 年初專注於擔保產品。

Got it. No, that's super helpful. That's clear. And I guess one quick follow-up I'll have is, can you talk briefly about Carnival and how the timing of the holiday may impact year-over-year comparables in the second quarter?

知道了。不，那超級有用。這很清楚。我想我會有一個快速的跟進是，你能簡單談談嘉年華以及假期的時間如何影響第二季度的同比比較嗎？

This is Éric again. You're right. We had, last year, a very strong first half, driven by the reopening of the economy and a number -- a higher number of work days. This year, we have a lot of holidays in Brazil, which necessarily brings a TPV behavior similar to weekends, especially Sundays that we have, and the industry have lower TPVs in comparison to the workdays.

這又是埃里克。你說得對。去年，在經濟重新開放和工作日增加的推動下，我們上半年表現非常強勁。今年，我們在巴西有很多假期，這必然會帶來類似於週末的 TPV 行為，尤其是我們擁有的周日，與工作日相比，該行業的 TPV 較低。

So necessarily, the first half tends to affect the industry. Since the first half '23, have more holidays in comparison to the first half of 2022.

因此，上半年往往會影響行業。自 23 年上半年以來，假期比 2022 年上半年多。

Our next question comes from Alex Markgraff, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 KeyBanc Capital Markets 的 Alex Markgraff。

I just wanted to maybe pile on the credit questions asking about secured credit mix. I think last quarter, you had mentioned a 60% mix target in the near term. So -- just first question is whether or not that's kind of still in the plan for the year, that 60% mix?

我只是想可能會詢問有關擔保信貸組合的信貸問題。我想上個季度，你提到了近期 60% 的混合目標。所以——第一個問題是，60% 的混合比例是否仍在今年的計劃中？

And then secondarily, just pairing that with what you just mentioned around an eventual restoration of unsecured credit and your earlier comments around general credit risk appetite, just wanting to understand what the right long-term mix you think is between secured and unsecured? Is it above -- below that 60% level?

其次，將其與你剛才提到的關於最終恢復無擔保信貸的內容以及你之前關於一般信用風險偏好的評論相結合，只是想了解你認為有擔保和無擔保之間正確的長期組合是什麼？是否高於 - 低於 60% 的水平？

Alex, well, we plan to keep growing secure products is running is on the way. So we've been growing the participation of secured products in the total mix quarter after quarter, and we will keep growing in the following quarters. If we don't reach 60% this year, it's going to be close to that is a little bit lower to that because in the short term, we will keep offering only secret products, so it is going to be close to that. We expect to be close to that by the end of the year.

亞歷克斯，好吧，我們計劃繼續發展安全產品正在運行中。因此，我們每個季度都在增加安全產品在整體組合中的參與度，我們將在接下來的幾個季度繼續增長。如果我們今年達不到 60%，它會接近那個，但會稍微低一點，因為在短期內，我們將繼續只提供秘密產品，所以它會接近那個。我們預計到今年年底將接近這一點。

When you ask about the credit without collateral in the future, I would say we don't have the exact number here to give to you because there are many products. When you think about unsecured products, there are many products. There are overdrafts, there are credit cards, there are working capital for merchants. So there are many products here.

以後你問到無抵押的信用，我說我們這裡沒有確切的數字可以給你，因為產品很多。當您想到不安全的產品時，有很多產品。有透支，有信用卡，有商家的周轉資金。所以這裡有很多產品。

I would say you that we will keep looking at the risk and return to have a balanced portfolio so that we can navigate in times of expansion and times of a contraction. So honestly, I don't have a target here to say to you, it's going to be 50-50 or things like that. But it's going to be something that we're going to be build as time passes by, looking at the risk and return, looking at the demand for the products because, of course, we offer the products, we've got -- you need to price the product, you may have demand or not.

我會告訴你，我們將繼續關注風險和回報，以擁有一個平衡的投資組合，以便我們能夠在擴張時期和收縮時期航行。老實說，我在這裡沒有要告訴你的目標，它會是 50-50 或類似的東西。但隨著時間的推移，我們將構建它，著眼於風險和回報，著眼於對產品的需求，因為，當然，我們提供產品，我們有——你需要給產品定價，你可能有需求也可能沒有。

So I mean, the best way to answer you is we will keep building these unsecured products to control the risk and return quarter-after-quarter. But in short term, we will keep doing -- keep offering secured products. And this mix, this 44%, we'll keep growing in the following quarters.

所以我的意思是，回答你的最佳方式是我們將繼續構建這些無擔保產品以控制風險並逐季回報。但在短期內，我們將繼續做——繼續提供安全產品。這種組合，這 44%，我們將在接下來的幾個季度繼續增長。

Thank you. The PagBank conference call is now concluded. We wish you a very good night. Thank you.

謝謝。 PagBank 電話會議現已結束。祝您度過一個美好的夜晚。謝謝。