PagSeguro Digital Ltd (PAGS) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good evening. My name is Nihuge, and I will be your conference operator today. Welcome to PagBank PagSeguro's webcast results for the third (sic) [fourth] quarter 2022. (Operator Instructions) This event is also being broadcast live via webcast and may be accessed through PagBank PagSeguro's website at investors.pagseguro.com. Participants may view the slides in any order they wish. Today's conference is being recorded and will be available after the event is concluded.

晚上好。我叫泥虎哥，今天我是你們的會議運營商。歡迎收看 PagBank PagSeguro 2022 年第三季度（原文如此）[第四] 的網絡直播結果。（操作員說明）該活動也通過網絡直播進行現場直播，可通過 PagBank PagSeguro 的網站 investors.pagseguro.com 訪問。參與者可以按他們希望的任何順序查看幻燈片。今天的會議正在錄製中，將在活動結束後提供。

I would now like to turn the call over to your host, Éric Oliveira, Investor Relations and ESG Director. Please go ahead.

我現在想把電話轉給你的主持人，投資者關係和 ESG 總監 Éric Oliveira。請繼續。

Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining our fourth quarter 2022 earnings call. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session.

大家好。感謝您加入我們的 2022 年第四季度財報電話會議。發言者發言後，將進行問答環節。

Before proceeding, let me mention that any forward-looking statements included in the presentation or mentioned on this conference call are based on currently available information and PagBank PagSeguro's current assumptions, expectations and projections about future events. While PagBank PagSeguro believes that the assumptions, expectations and projections are reasonable in view of currently available information, you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from those included in PagBank PagSeguro's presentation or discussed on this conference call for a variety of reasons, including those described in the forward-looking statements and Risk Factor sections of PagBank PagSeguro's most recent annual report on Form 20-F and other filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which are available on PagBank PagSeguro's Investor Relations website.

在繼續之前，讓我提一下，演示文稿中包含的或本次電話會議中提及的任何前瞻性陳述均基於當前可用信息和 PagBank PagSeguro 當前對未來事件的假設、預期和預測。儘管 PagBank PagSeguro 認為根據當前可用信息，假設、預期和預測是合理的，但請注意不要過分依賴這些前瞻性陳述。由於各種原因，實際結果可能與 PagBank PagSeguro 的演示文稿或本次電話會議上討論的結果存在重大差異，包括 PagBank PagSeguro 最新年度報告 20-F 表的前瞻性陳述和風險因素部分中描述的結果和向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件，可在 PagBank PagSeguro 的投資者關係網站上查閱。

Finally, I would like to remind you that during the conference call, the company may discuss some non-GAAP measures, including those disclosed in the presentation. We present non-GAAP measures when we believe that the additional information is useful and meaningful to investors. Presentation of this non-GAAP financial information, which is not prepared under any comprehensive set of accounting rules or principles, is not intended to be considered separately from, or as a substitute for, our financial information prepared and presented in accordance with IFRS as issued by the IASB. For more details, the foregoing non-GAAP measures and the reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable IFRS measures are presented in the last page of this webcast presentation and earnings release.

最後，我想提醒您，在電話會議期間，公司可能會討論一些非 GAAP 措施，包括在演示文稿中披露的措施。當我們認為額外信息對投資者有用且有意義時，我們會提供非 GAAP 措施。此非 GAAP 財務信息的列報並非根據任何一套全面的會計規則或原則編制，無意與我們根據已發布的 IFRS 編制和列報的財務信息分開考慮或替代。由國際會計準則委員會。有關更多詳細信息，上述非 GAAP 措施以及這些非 GAAP 財務措施與最直接可比的 IFRS 措施的調節情況，請參見本網絡廣播演示文稿和收益發布的最後一頁。

With that, let me turn the call over to Ricardo. Thank you.

有了這個，讓我把電話轉給里卡多。謝謝。

Good evening from São Paulo, everyone, and thanks for joining our webcast for the fourth quarter 2022 results. Tonight, I have the company of Alexandre Magnani, our CEO; Artur Schunck, our CFO; and Éric Oliveira, Head of Investor Relations and ESG.

大家晚上好，聖保羅，感謝您參加我們關於 2022 年第四季度業績的網絡廣播。今晚，我有我們的首席執行官 Alexandre Magnani 陪伴；我們的首席財務官 Artur Schunck；和 Éric Oliveira，投資者關係和 ESG 負責人。

Before I turn to Alexandre, I would like to share a quick overview of our journey as we completed 5 years as a public listed company last January. After that, I'll share the main 2022 achievements and comment about our ESG initiatives.

在我轉向 Alexandre 之前，我想簡要介紹一下我們在去年 1 月作為一家上市公司完成 5 年的旅程。之後，我將分享 2022 年的主要成就，並對我們的 ESG 舉措發表評論。

Going to Slide 3. We share the 5 years key performance indicators for our company and the 3 years key indicators for PagBank, our financial services in digital bank unit launched in May 2019. Our company truly experienced an exponential growth and the scale over the years, including millions into the financial system, initially through payments, and then through digital bank [and financial] services. We have been successfully unlocking new addressable markets in payments and financial services, always balancing growth and profitability.

轉到幻燈片 3。我們分享了我們公司 5 年的關鍵績效指標和 PagBank 的 3 年關鍵指標，PagBank 是我們於 2019 年 5 月推出的數字銀行部門的金融服務。多年來，我們公司真正經歷了指數級增長和規模，包括數百萬人進入金融系統，最初是通過支付，然後是通過數字銀行 [和金融] 服務。我們已經成功地在支付和金融服務領域開闢了新的可尋址市場，始終平衡增長和盈利能力。

Starting with PagSeguro data, our TPV grew 9x in 5 years, reaching BRL 354 billion, and we have the largest payments network acceptance in Brazil, accounting for more than 7 million active merchants. PagBank, our financial services and digital bank business, has been growing consistently in all important metrics, increasing engagement, unlocking cross-selling opportunities and leveraging our banking license to reduce our cost of funding. PagBank TPV increased 19x, with total deposits growing 10x, surpassing more than BRL 20 billion. Our credit portfolio grew 7x, reaching BRL 2.7 billion, still very small compared with the opportunity we have ahead of us.

從 PagSeguro 數據開始，我們的 TPV 在 5 年內增長了 9 倍，達到 3540 億雷亞爾，我們擁有巴西最大的支付網絡接受度，擁有超過 700 萬活躍商戶。 PagBank，我們的金融服務和數字銀行業務，在所有重要指標上都在持續增長，增加參與度，釋放交叉銷售機會，並利用我們的銀行牌照來降低我們的融資成本。 PagBank TPV 增長了 19 倍，總存款增長了 10 倍，超過 200 億雷亞爾。我們的信貸組合增長了 7 倍，達到 27 億雷亞爾，與我們面前的機會相比仍然很小。

And finally, even with all investments in our organic growth and the macroeconomic challenges such as interest rate increase, inflation and uncertainty about consumer spending, not only in Brazil, but around the world, our profits grew 3x. And our equity position increased from less than BRL 1 billion in 2017 to almost BRL 12 billion in the end of 2022. On the chart in the right side of the slide, we can see that 52% of the 2022 equity figure is composed by retained earners, fully reinvested in our organic growth.

最後，即使在我們的有機增長和宏觀經濟挑戰（例如利率上升、通貨膨脹和消費者支出的不確定性）的所有投資下，不僅在巴西，而且在世界各地，我們的利潤增長了 3 倍。我們的股權頭寸從 2017 年的不到 10 億巴西雷亞爾增加到 2022 年底的近 120 億巴西雷亞爾。在幻燈片右側的圖表中，我們可以看到 2022 年股權數字的 52% 由保留資產組成收入者，完全再投資於我們的有機增長。

Going to Slide 4, we can see some of our 2022 achievements. We successfully implemented our repricing to offset financial expenses increase. At the same time, we had strong deposit growth, which helped to reduce our funding costs and helped to diversify our funding resources. We also have been successfully diversifying our payments business, and 2022 marked the consolidation of our HUBs initiative to extend our best-in-class services to small and mid-sized clients, and PagBank consolidated as the second largest digital bank in Brazil with 28 million clients.

轉到幻燈片 4，我們可以看到我們在 2022 年取得的一些成就。我們成功實施了重新定價以抵消財務費用的增加。同時，我們的存款增長強勁，這有助於降低我們的資金成本，並有助於我們的資金來源多元化。我們還成功地實現了支付業務的多元化，2022 年標誌著我們鞏固了 HUB 計劃，將我們一流的服務擴展到中小型客戶，PagBank 鞏固成為巴西第二大數字銀行，擁有 2800 萬客戶。

In credit underwriting, we took the right decision in Q1 2022 to shift our underwriting from unsecured products to secured products. By doing so, we were able to unlock new growth avenues such as the payroll loans and credit cards backed by CDs and account balance savings, improving our gross profit in PagBank. Finally, our disciplined capital allocation led to a significant improvement in operating and investing cash flow generation, paving our path to further explore the opportunities in payments and financial services in Brazilian territory in the coming years.

在信用承銷方面，我們在 2022 年第一季度做出了正確的決定，將我們的承銷從無擔保產品轉向有擔保產品。通過這樣做，我們能夠開闢新的增長途徑，例如由 CD 和賬戶餘額儲蓄支持的工資單貸款和信用卡，從而提高我們在 PagBank 的毛利潤。最後，我們嚴格的資本配置導致運營和投資現金流量產生顯著改善，為我們在未來幾年進一步探索巴西領土的支付和金融服務機會鋪平了道路。

Moving to Slide 5. Our natural call for disruption and value creation led us to set a high bar for delivers in ESG. In December 2022, we released our second sustainability report where every stakeholder can follow our main initiatives and positive impact in society. One point to highlight here is that our financial inclusion has been massive, through a safe and hassle-free platform, empowering clients, employees and communities.

轉到幻燈片 5。我們對顛覆和價值創造的本能要求使我們為 ESG 的交付設定了高標準。 2022 年 12 月，我們發布了第二份可持續發展報告，每位利益相關者都可以在其中了解我們的主要舉措和對社會的積極影響。這裡要強調的一點是，我們的金融包容性是巨大的，通過一個安全無憂的平台，賦予客戶、員工和社區權力。

With that, I finish my presentation and pass the word to Alexandre Magnani.

就這樣，我完成了我的演講，並將消息傳遞給了亞歷山大·馬格納尼 (Alexandre Magnani)。

Thank you, Ricardo. Hello, everyone. After Ricardo shared our main achievements for 2022, I would like to share our highlights only for the fourth quarter, beginning on the Slide 6.

謝謝你，里卡多。大家好。在 Ricardo 分享了我們 2022 年的主要成就之後，我想分享我們從幻燈片 6 開始的第四季度的亮點。

Our investment philosophy to balance growth and profitability while keeping a disciplined capital allocation led us to report the highest EPS in PAGS' history, 36% higher than the same period of 2021. Strong revenue growth above 20% versus 4Q '21, reaching almost BRL 4 billion; cash earnings of BRL 410 million, almost 4x higher than 4Q '21; and BRL 9.8 billion in net cash position, further boosted by our efficiency in OpEx and CapEx.

我們平衡增長和盈利能力同時保持有紀律的資本配置的投資理念使我們報告了 PAGS 歷史上最高的每股收益，比 2021 年同期高出 36%。與 2021 年第四季度相比，收入增長強勁超過 20%，幾乎達到巴西雷亞爾40億；現金收益為 4.1 億巴西雷亞爾，比 21 年第四季度高出近 4 倍；淨現金頭寸為 98 億雷亞爾，這進一步得益於我們在運營支出和資本支出方面的效率。

In Payments, our strategic pillar to grow in a profitable and efficient way, while we continue to diversify our merchant base, resulted in BRL 94 billion in PagSeguro TPV with 33% coming from HUBs and BRL 1.3 billion in gross profit, 14% higher than 4Q '21.

在支付方面，我們以盈利和高效的方式增長的戰略支柱，同時我們繼續使我們的商家基礎多樣化，導致 PagSeguro TPV 的 940 億巴西雷亞爾，其中 33% 來自 HUBs 和 13 億巴西雷亞爾的毛利潤，高出 14% 21 年第四季度。

In Financial Services, we have continued diversifying our revenue streams through the consolidation of PagBank. Gross profit of BRL 131 million, 70% higher than 4Q '21 and 3Q '22; 28 million clients accounting for BRL 21 billion in deposits; and BRL 2.7 billion in credit portfolio with increasing exposure to secured products.

在金融服務方面，我們通過整合 PagBank 繼續多元化我們的收入來源。毛利潤為 1.31 億雷亞爾，比 21 年第四季度和 22 年第三季度高出 70%； 2800 萬客戶佔存款 210 億雷亞爾；以及 27 億雷亞爾的信貸組合，增加對有擔保產品的敞口。

Finally, our 2-sided ecosystem, which is just in the early stages to fully explore synergies related to lower transaction costs and lower cost of funding through our closed loop, led to more than BRL 200 billion in TPV, PagBank and PagSeguro, 10% in market share of PIX transactions. And new features to further increase our cross-selling with clients: SMB Payroll Platform and Automatic Savings from account balance.

最後，我們的雙向生態系統剛剛處於早期階段，通過我們的閉環充分探索與降低交易成本和降低融資成本相關的協同效應，導致 TPV、PagBank 和 PagSeguro 的價值超過 2000 億雷亞爾，佔 10%在 PIX 交易的市場份額中。以及進一步增加我們與客戶交叉銷售的新功能：SMB 薪資平台和賬戶餘額自動儲蓄。

Moving to Slide 7, we present our client base and cash-in evolution. Our number of PagBank clients more than doubled in comparison to 2020, moving up from 13 million to almost 28 million in 2 years. Active clients accounted for more than 16 million where 60% of consumers and 50% of the merchants considered PagBank their primary account. Our growth in cash-in reached BRL 38 billion versus 4Q 2021, led by PagSeguro TPV growth and PIX transactions.

轉到幻燈片 7，我們展示了我們的客戶群和兌現演變。與 2020 年相比，我們的 PagBank 客戶數量增加了一倍多，在 2 年內從 1300 萬增加到近 2800 萬。活躍客戶超過 1600 萬，其中 60% 的消費者和 50% 的商家將 PagBank 視為他們的主要賬戶。在 PagSeguro TPV 增長和 PIX 交易的帶動下，與 2021 年第四季度相比，我們的現金收入增長達到 380 億雷亞爾。

As a result, Slide 8 reveals our deposits growth and their respective annual percentage yields. Deep diving, we were able to reach an important milestone this quarter, especially in such an uncertain scenario related to credit market given the recent events and the interest rate trends in Brazil in 2023. The ongoing improvement in products and service levels, combined to the seasonality, led to a strong account balance growth.

因此，幻燈片 8 揭示了我們的存款增長及其各自的年收益率百分比。深潛，我們能夠在本季度達到一個重要的里程碑，特別是在考慮到巴西最近發生的事件和 2023 年的利率趨勢的情況下，與信貸市場相關的這種不確定情況下。產品和服務水平的持續改善，加上季節性，導致賬戶餘額強勁增長。

Total deposits reached BRL 21 billion, BRL 1.3 billion more than 3Q '22 and BRL 12 billion more than 4Q '21. The increasing share of account balance in the quarter allowed us to reduce our PagBank CD's distribution through third-party partners, reducing costs related to distribution fee and the APYs in PagBank CDs, driving down our costs related to deposits without harming our go-to-market strategy to attract new clients and further engage the current ones.

存款總額達到 210 億雷亞爾，比 22 年第三季度多 13 億雷亞爾，比 21 年第四季度多 120 億雷亞爾。本季度賬戶餘額份額的增加使我們能夠減少 PagBank CD 通過第三方合作夥伴的分銷，降低與分銷費和 PagBank CD 中的 APY 相關的成本，從而降低我們與存款相關的成本，而不會損害我們的目標吸引新客戶並進一步吸引現有客戶的市場策略。

Account balance APY in 4Q '22 reached 69% of the CDI, the Brazilian interbank rate, an increase in comparison to the previous quarter. This increase was mainly related to a higher number of days our clients kept their savings in PagBank. APY on total deposits reached 96% of CDI, a lower level in comparison to the past 2 quarters, reflecting the higher share of account balance and the down trade (sic) [downtrend] in APYs for PagBank CDs.

22 年第四季度的賬戶餘額 APY 達到巴西銀行同業拆借利率 CDI 的 69%，與上一季度相比有所增加。這一增長主要與我們的客戶將儲蓄存放在 PagBank 的天數增加有關。總存款的 APY 達到 CDI 的 96%，與過去兩個季度相比較低，反映了 PagBank CD 的 APY 中賬戶餘額的較高份額和下降交易 (sic) [下降趨勢]。

Moving to the next slide, I would like to share 2 features that we recently rolled out to our clients. Thinking about challenge of Brazilian merchants to manage direct deposits of paychecks for employees, we launched our SMB Payroll Platform, fully integrated in our PagBank app and in our iBanking platform. Merchants can count with this feature to organize and schedule paychecks payments for their employees with a hassle-free solution. This is an important achievement for our array of financial service, especially for small, mid-sized businesses with multiple owners and employees.

轉到下一張幻燈片，我想分享我們最近向客戶推出的 2 個功能。考慮到巴西商家管理員工薪水直接存款的挑戰，我們推出了 SMB Payroll 平台，該平台完全集成在我們的 PagBank 應用程序和我們的 iBanking 平台中。商家可以依靠此功能，通過無憂的解決方案為員工組織和安排薪水支付。這是我們一系列金融服務的一項重要成就，特別是對於擁有多個所有者和員工的中小型企業。

Another feature is the new version of our automatic savings. Initially, it was launched for merchants where they could find a percentage of their sales to be invested in PagBank CDs. Now merchants and consumer can also schedule automatic savings according to their account balance, facilitating the investment from other cash-in sources such as PIX, salary portability and other sources of deposits. With this product, we reinforce our commitment to financial inclusion and education, while we foster PagBank account engagement.

另一個特點是我們新版本的自動儲蓄。最初，它是為商家推出的，他們可以找到一定比例的銷售額來投資 PagBank CD。現在商戶和消費者還可以根據賬戶餘額安排自動儲蓄，方便PIX、薪金攜帶等其他存款來源的投資。通過該產品，我們加強了對普惠金融和教育的承諾，同時促進了 PagBank 賬戶的參與度。

Moving to Slide 10. We also would like to share a few updates about the ongoing improvements in our service levels. During the past 2 years, our teams have been working hard to increase client satisfaction while promoting additional cost savings through processes, automation and optimization.

轉到幻燈片 10。我們還想分享一些關於我們服務水平持續改進的更新。在過去的 2 年中，我們的團隊一直在努力提高客戶滿意度，同時通過流程、自動化和優化促進額外的成本節約。

On the left side, we can see our improvements in customer care. On the top left, our contact rate decreased at 49% in 2 years, an important metric as it represents a reduction on clients' problems with our product. On the bottom chart, we have also reduced the average service time by 29% in the same period. On the right side, we shared an update about our logistics operation, a key department for service levels. It's important to highlight that our operation is already extremely efficient, which poises additional challenge, but it did not prevent us to look for even better service levels. The average time for POS delivery went down 10% in 2 years, and the average time for POS replacement decreased 25% in the same period. Even though pricing remains one of the most relevant factors for merchants decisions about their acquirer option, we observe that service levels has become more and more relevant in clients' decision.

在左側，我們可以看到我們在客戶服務方面的改進。在左上角，我們的聯繫率在 2 年內下降了 49%，這是一個重要指標，因為它代表客戶對我們產品的問題減少了。在底部圖表中，我們同期的平均服務時間也減少了 29%。在右側，我們分享了我們物流運營的最新情況，這是服務水平的關鍵部門。需要強調的是，我們的運營已經非常高效，這帶來了額外的挑戰，但這並沒有阻止我們尋求更高的服務水平。 POS 交付平均時間在 2 年內下降了 10%，同期 POS 更換平均時間下降了 25%。儘管定價仍然是商家決定其收單方選項的最相關因素之一，但我們觀察到服務水平在客戶決策中變得越來越重要。

Before I turn over to Artur, let me talk about our credit portfolio. As we have been discussing over the past quarters, the company decided in early 2022 to reduce the credit underwriting of unsecured products and balance its portfolio with secured products. This decision opened new addressable market for us, especially in consumers, with payroll loans to retirees and public sector employees. At the same time, we increased our provisions considering the asset quality of unsecured products. As time passes by, we were able to reach BRL 2.7 billion in outstanding credit portfolio where secured products increased its share from 7% in 4Q '21 to 40% in 4Q '22.

在我轉向 Artur 之前，讓我談談我們的信貸組合。正如我們在過去幾個季度一直在討論的那樣，該公司於 2022 年初決定減少無擔保產品的信用承銷，並平衡其投資組合與有擔保產品。這一決定為我們開闢了新的潛在市場，尤其是在消費者中，向退休人員和公共部門僱員提供工資貸款。同時，考慮到無抵押產品的資產質量，我們增加了撥備。隨著時間的推移，我們能夠達到 27 億雷亞爾的未償信貸組合，其中擔保產品的份額從 21 年第四季度的 7% 增加到 22 年第四季度的 40%。

The diversification of our credit portfolio contributed not only to our business diversification, but also to reduce the provision for losses, lowering our exposure to high-risk clients.

我們信貸組合的多元化不僅有助於我們的業務多元化，而且有助於減少損失準備金，降低我們對高風險客戶的敞口。

Additionally, we launched a disruptive credit card where clients can tie their credit limits to their investments with PagBank, further promoting financial education while we manage the risks. We have no rush to grow materially our credit portfolio in the short term, given the uncertainties of the macroeconomic outlook, but our ongoing improvement in credit models, process, collections and client risk assessment will potentially speed up our appetite in the future.

此外，我們推出了一種顛覆性的信用卡，客戶可以將他們的信用額度與他們在 PagBank 的投資聯繫起來，在我們管理風險的同時進一步促進金融教育。鑑於宏觀經濟前景的不確定性，我們不急於在短期內大幅增加我們的信貸組合，但我們在信貸模型、流程、收款和客戶風險評估方面的持續改進可能會在未來加快我們的胃口。

Now I will pass the word to Artur to present our financial results.

現在我將向 Artur 傳達我們的財務結果。

Thanks, Alexandre. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us tonight. I will continue the presentation on Slide 12 with our Q4 '22 and annual results.

謝謝，亞歷山大。大家好，感謝你們今晚加入我們。我將繼續在幻燈片 12 上介紹我們的 Q4 '22 和年度業績。

First, talking about the fourth quarter results. Total revenue and income reached almost BRL 4 billion, growing 22% year-over-year. This performance was slightly lower than last quarter due to higher share of debit card transactions, less credit limits available in the market and Soccer World Cup impact.

首先，談談四季度的業績。總收入和收入達到近 40 億雷亞爾，同比增長 22%。由於借記卡交易份額增加、市場可用信用額度減少以及足球世界杯的影響，該業績略低於上一季度。

Gross profit, neutral of FX, grew 18% year-over-year and was stable versus last quarter. Financial expenses decreased by 7% quarter-over-quarter due to 5 working days less than Q3 and the replacement of expensive funding lines to lower cost sources. On top of that, total losses decreased by 30% on a quarterly basis, driven by lower level of provisions for credit delinquency requested by secured credit products.

不計入匯率影響的毛利同比增長 18%，與上一季度持平。由於比第三季度減少了 5 個工作日以及將昂貴的資金線替換為成本較低的來源，財務費用環比下降了 7%。最重要的是，由於有擔保信貸產品要求的信貸拖欠準備金水平較低，總損失按季度下降了 30%。

I also would like to highlight that PagBank gross profit improved 72% versus last quarter. Once again, operating expenses grew less than total revenue and income yearly growth, showing 230 basis points of operational leverage. Controlling costs and expenses is a recurring process under our DNA and a key component of our superior execution.

我還想強調 PagBank 的毛利潤比上一季度增長了 72%。運營支出的增長再次低於總收入和收入的年度增長，顯示出 230 個基點的運營槓桿。控製成本和費用是我們 DNA 中反復出現的過程，也是我們卓越執行力的關鍵組成部分。

Adjusted EBITDA closed at BRL 788 million, up 29% in comparison to the last quarter of 2021. EBITDA minus CapEx increased by 53% versus Q3 '22, that represents a cash earnings of BRL 410 million.

調整後的 EBITDA 收於 7.88 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2021 年最後一個季度增長 29%。EBITDA 減去資本支出與 22 年第三季度相比增長了 53%，這意味著現金收益為 4.1 億巴西雷亞爾。

Net income non-GAAP achieved BRL 411 million, and net income GAAP increased 35% year-over-year, reaching the highest profit in PAGS history, totaling BRL 408 million. This represents an earnings per share of BRL 1.24 in the quarter, BRL 0.33 or 36% better than Q4 '21. During the last quarter, we repurchased 1.9 million shares under our buyback program. Our strategy and focus continue to better balance growth and profitability, targeting to improve shareholders' return.

非GAAP淨利潤達到4.11億雷亞爾，GAAP淨利潤同比增長35%，達到PAGS歷史最高利潤，共計4.08億雷亞爾。這代表本季度每股收益為 1.24 雷亞爾，比 21 年第四季度高出 0.33 雷亞爾或 36%。在上個季度，我們根據回購計劃回購了 190 萬股股票。我們的戰略和重點繼續更好地平衡增長和盈利能力，旨在提高股東回報。

On a yearly basis, PAGS closed 2022 with BRL 15.3 billion in total revenue and income, an increase of 47% versus 2021. Gross profit total BRL 5.5 billion, an increase of 19% year-over-year, even with a significant increase of almost 4x in financial expenses and with total losses growing 48% over the year due to additional provisions for delinquency on credit products. As a result, non-GAAP net income reached BRL 1.6 billion, while GAAP net income amounted to BRL 1.5 billion, an increase of 29% when compared to 2021 and representing an earnings per share of BRL 4.57 or 30% higher than last year.

按年計算，PAGS 截至 2022 年的總收入和收入為 153 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2021 年增長 47%。毛利潤總額為 55 億巴西雷亞爾，同比增長 19%，即使大幅增長由於對信貸產品拖欠的額外準備金，財務費用幾乎增加了 4 倍，總損失同比增長了 48%。因此，非 GAAP 淨收入達到 16 億巴西雷亞爾，而 GAAP 淨收入達到 15 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2021 年增長 29%，每股收益為 4.57 巴西雷亞爾，比去年增長 30%。

Moving to Slide 13. PAGS TPV grew 19% year-over-year, totaling BRL 94.3 billion during the quarter, better than expected, given the negative impact of the Soccer World Cup on business days and credit limits constrained in Brazil, but with a good performance on holidays. Total revenue and income grew faster than TPV growth, reaching BRL 3.7 billion or plus 25% year-over-year due to the positive results from the massive merchant's repricing done in 2022. As a result, gross profit reached BRL 1.3 billion, an increase of 14% when compared to the same period of last year.

轉到幻燈片 13。PAGS TPV 同比增長 19%，本季度總計 943 億雷亞爾，好於預期，因為世界杯對工作日的負面影響以及巴西的信貸限額受到限制，但節假日表現良好。由於 2022 年大規模商家重新定價的積極成果，總收入和收入的增長速度快於 TPV 的增長，達到 37 億雷亞爾或同比增長 25%。因此，毛利潤達到 13 億雷亞爾，同比增長與去年同期相比增長 14%。

In the Slide 14, PAGS TPV reached BRL 115 billion in Q4 '22, 28% (sic) [68%] higher than Q4 '21, reinforcing the customers engagement on PagBank account that resulted on a strong deposits growth and increase of cash-outs through day-to-day banking services. PagBank's total revenue grew 7% year-over-year, ending the quarter at BRL 329 million, and slightly lower than Q3 because of our focus on secured credit products, which have lower APRs and longer duration in comparison to unsecured products. On the other hand, gross profit reached BRL 131 million, an increase of 71% year-over-year, mainly due to our diligent credit underwriting of secured products that naturally leads to lower provisions for losses.

在幻燈片 14 中，PAGS TPV 在 22 年第四季度達到 1150 億雷亞爾，比 21 年第四季度高出 28%（原文如此）[68%]，加強了客戶對 PagBank 賬戶的參與度，導致強勁的存款增長和現金增長-通過日常銀行服務。 PagBank 的總收入同比增長 7%，本季度末為 3.29 億雷亞爾，略低於第三季度，因為我們專注於有擔保的信貸產品，與無擔保產品相比，這些產品的 APR 更低，期限更長。另一方面，毛利潤達到 1.31 億雷亞爾，同比增長 71%，這主要是由於我們對有擔保產品的勤奮信用承銷自然導致損失準備金減少。

In the next slide, in the first chart on the left side, operating expenses reached BRL 621 million in Q4 '22, up 7% year-over-year. This amount represents 15.7% of PAGS revenue versus 18% in the same period of last year and stable when compared to last quarter. The improved efficiency has come from personnel and marketing expenses leverage as well as the contribution of PagBank and HUBs' revenue growth.

在下一張幻燈片中，在左側的第一張圖表中，22 年第四季度的運營費用達到 6.21 億雷亞爾，同比增長 7%。這一數額佔 PAGS 收入的 15.7%，而去年同期為 18%，與上一季度相比保持穩定。效率的提高來自於人員和營銷費用的槓桿作用，以及 PagBank 和 HUB 收入增長的貢獻。

On the right chart, financial expenses closed at BRL 855 million versus BRL 403 million in Q4 '21. Around 90% of this increase is explained by the hike of SELIC rate, and the remaining portion was related to higher TPV volume, prepayment of receivables to merchants and credit card mix. These effects were partially offset by the lower cost of funding as we leverage our banking license and increase PagBank deposits, combined to lower spreads negotiated with capital markets.

在右圖中，財務費用收於 8.55 億巴西雷亞爾，而 21 年第四季度為 4.03 億巴西雷亞爾。大約 90% 的增長是由於 SELIC 利率上調，其餘部分與較高的 TPV 銷量、預付給商家的應收賬款和信用卡組合有關。這些影響部分被較低的融資成本所抵消，因為我們利用我們的銀行牌照並增加 PagBank 存款，同時降低與資本市場協商的利差。

We continue to focus on improving our funding process, diversifying sources and extending terms to support the company's growth. Financial expenses was our biggest challenge during 2022, as we will see in the next slide. However, the Brazilian Central Bank has been keeping interest rates stable. The last interest rate increase was in August, and we expect for 2023 an average rate of 13.75% per year versus 12.53% (sic) [12.55%] per year in 2022.

我們繼續專注於改善我們的融資流程、多元化來源和延長期限以支持公司的發展。正如我們將在下一張幻燈片中看到的那樣，財務費用是我們在 2022 年面臨的最大挑戰。然而，巴西中央銀行一直保持利率穩定。上一次加息是在 8 月，我們預計 2023 年的平均年利率為 13.75%，而 2022 年為 12.53%（原文如此）[12.55%]。

The graphic in the Slide 16 is to illustrate how PAGS results evolved during 2022. Revenue growth was strong, mainly explained by PagSeguro's TPV growth and our successful repricing process. Cost efficiency and operational leverage captured also contributed positively for the yearly performance. Financial expenses was the major impact over the year, representing an increase of more than BRL 2 billion into PAGS costs and expenses. D&A and POS write-off also impacted negatively on our results, which we expect to decrease as a percentage of revenue in the coming years.

幻燈片 16 中的圖表說明了 PAGS 結果在 2022 年的演變情況。收入增長強勁，這主要歸因於 PagSeguro 的 TPV 增長和我們成功的重新定價過程。捕獲的成本效率和運營槓桿也對年度業績做出了積極貢獻。財務費用是這一年的主要影響，PAGS 成本和費用增加了超過 20 億雷亞爾。 D&A 和 POS 沖銷也對我們的業績產生了負面影響，我們預計未來幾年其占收入的百分比會下降。

Another impact came from total losses, mainly related to rise on provisions for credit losses during the year that is expected to reduce in 2023. All in, we reported all-time high figures with net income non-GAAP increasing by 12% when compared to 2021 and net income gap increasing by 29% versus 2021 totaling BRL 1.5 billion.

另一個影響來自總損失，主要與本年度信貸損失準備金增加有關，預計 2023 年將減少。總而言之，我們報告了歷史最高數字，與去年同期相比，非公認會計原則淨收入增長了 12% 2021 年淨收入差距比 2021 年增加 29%，總計 15 億雷亞爾。

In the next slide, adjusted EBITDA minus CapEx reached a positive amount of BRL 410 million, more than 3x versus Q4 '21. Cash earnings represented 10.3% of PAGS revenue, reflecting management's focus on maximizing LTV to CAC ratio by reducing POS subsidies and adding more valuable merchants into the ecosystem.

在下一張幻燈片中，調整後的 EBITDA 減去資本支出達到了 4.1 億雷亞爾的正數，是 21 年第四季度的 3 倍多。現金收益佔 PAGS 收入的 10.3%，反映出管理層致力於通過減少 POS 補貼和將更多有價值的商家加入生態系統來最大化 LTV 與 CAC 的比率。

In the following chart, CapEx to revenue ratio reached 9.5% this quarter versus 16.8% in the Q4 '21 and 12.4% in Q3 '22. This decrease is driven by lower CapEx related to the strategy of being more selective in merchants' acquisition to leverage PagBank and the increase of HUBs and PagBank revenue. On the bottom chart, depreciation and amortization, including POS write-off, totaled BRL 336 million, representing 8.5% of PAGS revenue.

在下圖中，本季度資本支出與收入之比達到 9.5%，而 21 年第四季度為 16.8%，22 年第三季度為 12.4%。這一下降是由於資本支出較低，與在商家收購中更有選擇性以利用 PagBank 的戰略以及 HUB 和 PagBank 收入的增加有關。在底部圖表中，包括 POS 沖銷在內的折舊和攤銷總額為 3.36 億雷亞爾，佔 PAGS 收入的 8.5%。

On Slide 18, PAGS net cash balance ended the fourth quarter at BRL 9.8 billion, increasing almost BRL 1 billion year-over-year. At the same time, we have been improving our capital structure and diversifying funding sources to support volume growth, with deposits now representing around 67% of our third-party funding source.

在幻燈片 18 中，PAGS 第四季度的淨現金餘額為 98 億雷亞爾，同比增長近 10 億雷亞爾。與此同時，我們一直在改善我們的資本結構和多元化資金來源以支持交易量增長，目前存款約占我們第三方資金來源的 67%。

To conclude our presentation, I will turn back to Alexandre for the final comments. Thank you.

在結束我們的演講時，我將回到 Alexandre 的最後評論。謝謝。

Thanks, Artur. Before we conclude our call and begin our Q&A session, I would like to recap our guidance and results for 2022 and our business priorities.

謝謝，阿圖爾。在我們結束電話會議並開始問答環節之前，我想回顧一下我們 2022 年的指導和結果以及我們的業務重點。

Last quarter, we shared our guidance for Q4 '22 and full year 2022. When comparing guidance and results, we saw revenues growing at 47% year-over-year, very close to our guidance. The mismatch was mainly related to a higher-than-expected share of debit cards in Q4 '22, leading to a better-than-expected TPV at a lower take rate.

上個季度，我們分享了對 22 年第四季度和 2022 年全年的指導。在比較指導和結果時，我們發現收入同比增長 47%，非常接近我們的指導。不匹配主要與 22 年第四季度借記卡的份額高於預期有關，導致 TPV 以較低的採用率好於預期。

Our net income was in line and above guidance in non-GAAP and GAAP basis, respectively, mainly driven by repricing and operational efficiencies, closing 2022 with the all-time high figures for the 3 metrics: total revenue and income, net income GAAP and non-GAAP basis.

我們的淨收入分別在非 GAAP 和 GAAP 基礎上符合和高於指導，主要受重新定價和運營效率的推動，到 2022 年結束時，三個指標的歷史最高數字：總收入和收入、淨收入 GAAP 和非 GAAP 基礎。

Important to highlight that during the pandemic, we decided to provide quarterly guidance to increase investors' visibility about how business was evolving during this highly uncertain period. From now on, we decided not to share guidance to avoid short-term oriented view that is disconnected from how we manage the company, focusing on long term and fully explore opportunities we have ahead of us in Financial Services and Payments, always balancing growth and profitability. We will keep improving our communication and investment deck to address important topics with analysts and investors about our equity story and clarify potential questions about business development.

需要強調的是，在大流行期間，我們決定提供季度指導，以提高投資者對業務在這個高度不確定時期如何發展的可見性。從現在開始，我們決定不分享指導意見，以避免與我們管理公司的方式脫節的短期導向觀點，專注於長期並充分探索我們在金融服務和支付領域面臨的機會，始終平衡增長和盈利能力。我們將不斷改進我們的溝通和投資平台，與分析師和投資者討論有關我們股票故事的重要話題，並澄清有關業務發展的潛在問題。

It has been proven how resilient our business is independently of the economy, industry or regulatory changes. Our investment philosophy of balancing growth and profitability has not changed, and the opportunities remain extremely compelling for our company.

事實證明，我們的業務具有獨立於經濟、行業或監管變化的彈性。我們平衡增長和盈利能力的投資理念沒有改變，機會對我們公司來說仍然極具吸引力。

Looking ahead, our main focus are: grow profitably in Payments and keep increasing market share in key segments; foster PagBank engagement to diversify revenues and increase revenue per customer; develop our 2-sided ecosystem, providing a unique and superior value proposition; improve models and process to reduce losses and costs; and execute disciplined capital management to improve EPS and cash flow generation.

展望未來，我們的主要重點是：在支付領域實現盈利增長，並在關鍵領域保持增長的市場份額；促進 PagBank 的參與，以實現收入多元化並增加每位客戶的收入；發展我們的雙向生態系統，提供獨特而卓越的價值主張；改進模型和流程以減少損失和成本；執行嚴格的資本管理以提高每股收益和現金流量。

Now we have ended our presentation, and we will open the Q&A session. Operator, please?

現在我們的演示結束了，我們將打開問答環節。接線員，請說？

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自美國銀行的 Mario Pierry。

Congratulations on the quarter. Let me ask you 2 questions. I know you're not providing guidance, and I'm not looking for specific numbers either. But just wanted to get a sense from you, how are you seeing the operating environment in Brazil for this year? Especially recently, I think ABECS reported that they were forecasting volume growth of about 14% in 2023. I was just wondering if this number makes sense to you, if you think you can maintain your market share, gain market share or not.

祝賀這個季度。讓我問你2個問題。我知道你沒有提供指導，我也不是在尋找具體數字。但只是想從您那裡了解一下，您如何看待今年巴西的運營環境？特別是最近，我認為 ABECS 報告說他們預測 2023 年銷量增長約 14%。我只是想知道這個數字對你是否有意義，你是否認為你可以保持你的市場份額，獲得市場份額。

And also related to the competitive environment, how are you seeing prices behaving in Brazil? Do you think you have room to continue to raise prices? Or are we getting to the point where clients would suffer if you continue to raise prices and if you're seeing anyone trying to anticipate a decline in interest rates in Brazil when trying to reduce prices ahead of that?

也與競爭環境有關，您如何看待巴西的價格表現？你覺得你們還有繼續漲價的空間嗎？或者，如果您繼續提高價格，並且如果您看到有人在試圖提前降低價格時試圖預測巴西的利率下降，我們是否已經到了這樣的地步？

Thank you for the question. Good to hear you. Let me start with the big picture that you asked, and then we can go to the part of the prices and so on. So as you said in the question, ABECS is expecting demand to grow between 14% and 18%. So we only had 2 months at this point. So it's hard to say that is -- let's say, okay, it's going to be higher than that or lower than that because we only had January and February. But we are working to keep growing payments in a profitable way.

感謝你的提問。很高興聽到你的聲音。讓我從你問的大局開始，然後我們可以談談價格等部分。因此，正如您在問題中所說，ABECS 預計需求將增長 14% 至 18%。所以此時我們只有 2 個月的時間。所以很難說 - 可以說，好吧，它會比那個更高或更低，因為我們只有 1 月和 2 月。但我們正在努力以有利可圖的方式保持支付增長。

Market share, to be honest, is a consequence. We are looking for growing our TPV in specific segments, which is the long tail micro merchants and the SMBs. So of course, we are not disconnected from the whole economy or from the whole cards industry. But so far, we saw January and February according to our business plan. So that's what we had in the January plus February according to our business plan.

老實說，市場份額是一個結果。我們正在尋求在特定細分市場中發展我們的 TPV，即長尾微型商家和 SMB。因此，當然，我們並沒有與整個經濟或整個卡片行業脫節。但到目前為止，我們根據我們的業務計劃看到了 1 月和 2 月。根據我們的業務計劃，這就是我們在 1 月和 2 月的情況。

Talking about the prices, we didn't change the prices for the long tail in the past years, and we don't plan to do that because we just want to keep simple. And looking forward, although a few months ago, we expect the interest rates to go down. And then what do you see today is sort of way to keep stable. So we don't see increasing prices for long tail at this point. But if you think about SMBs and other niches that we have in our base, there are some opportunities in some segments, some niches that we could increase prices, if necessary, in the short term. We don't -- also, we don't have any plan to decrease prices ahead of possible interest rate decrease because we don't have the visibility at this point. Once we have visibility, we can discuss here. But at this point, all the data that we have and now the interest rates, curbs future, we see the interest rates are at the same level that we have today, which is 13.75% per year.

談到價格，過去幾年我們沒有改變長尾的價格，我們也不打算這樣做，因為我們只是想保持簡單。展望未來，雖然幾個月前，我們預計利率會下降。然後你今天看到的是一種保持穩定的方法。所以我們目前沒有看到長尾的價格上漲。但是，如果您考慮我們基地中的 SMB 和其他利基市場，那麼在某些細分市場中有一些機會，如果有必要，我們可以在短期內提高價格。我們沒有 - 而且，我們沒有任何計劃在可能的利率下降之前降低價格，因為我們目前沒有可見性。一旦我們有了知名度，我們就可以在這裡討論。但在這一點上，我們擁有的所有數據和現在的利率都抑制了未來，我們看到利率與今天處於同一水平，即每年 13.75%。

Okay. No, that's clear. Let me ask then a follow-up with regards to the overall health of the system. We continue to see your client base decline. I think it's 4 consecutive quarters here that we have seen lower client base. And can you break that down between the SMB and the micro merchant segments and talk about mortality? Because, again, we're starting to see that on the credit side, like the corporates in Brazil are starting to have some problems, financial problems, because of the high rate environment, weak economy, et cetera. Is that what explains as well the decline in your client base?

好的。不，這很清楚。那麼讓我問一下關於系統整體健康狀況的後續行動。我們繼續看到您的客戶群下降。我認為我們已經連續 4 個季度看到較低的客戶群。您能否在 SMB 和微商細分市場之間進行細分並討論死亡率？因為，再一次，我們開始在信貸方面看到這一點，就像巴西的企業開始出現一些問題，財務問題，因為高利率環境、經濟疲軟等等。這也是您客戶群下降的原因嗎？

So Mario, the decline in our base -- the majority of this declining is in nano merchants. Nano merchants are responsible for a very, very small part of our TPV, less than 3% for TPV. So if you look at the number of merchants, although we are decreasing, our TPV is growing, growing on a yearly basis, growing on TPV promotion. If you look at the year figure, we are growing faster than the industry. And of course, the profitability are reaching record levels, as you could see in the presentation.

所以馬里奧，我們基礎的下降——這種下降的大部分是納米商人。 Nano商戶負責我們冠捷非常非常小的一部分，冠捷不到3%。所以如果你看商家的數量，雖然我們在減少，但我們的 TPV 在增長，每年都在增長，在 TPV 的推廣下增長。如果你看一下年度數字，我們的增長速度超過了整個行業。當然，正如您在演示文稿中看到的那樣，盈利能力正在達到創紀錄的水平。

So although the net adds or the active merchant base is a metric that everyone follows, the fact that we are losing nano merchants, it doesn't correlate with financial metrics. So we are looking for clients in these key segments, which are micro merchants with some levels of TPV and SMBs, where we have profitability in Payments, and we have opportunities to cross-sell and to penetrate PagBank.

因此，儘管淨增加或活躍商家群是每個人都遵循的指標，但我們正在失去納米商家這一事實與財務指標無關。因此，我們正在尋找這些關鍵領域的客戶，這些客戶是具有一定程度的 TPV 和 SMB 的微型商家，我們在支付方面有盈利能力，我們有機會進行交叉銷售和滲透 PagBank。

So that's why the -- if you ask me the active merchant base looking forward, there could be a downtrend, but we are not concerned with that because we're losing clients that they have very low TPV, low probability of PagBank penetration. And that's why even losing this client, we are growing TPV 40% year-over-year and reaching record levels of profitability.

所以這就是為什麼 - 如果你問我期待活躍的商業基礎，可能會出現下降趨勢，但我們並不擔心這一點，因為我們正在失去客戶，他們的 TPV 很低，PagBank 滲透的可能性很低。這就是為什麼即使失去這個客戶，我們的 TPV 同比增長 40% 並達到創紀錄的盈利水平。

Regarding credit, we took the right decision in Q1 2022 to shift our credit from unsecured products to secured products. Today, we have 40% of our credit portfolio that is secured. We expect that to reach 60% in the short term, in the following quarters. And so that's why even with this credit crisis we are seeing in Brazil, even in the corporate, we are not seeing our NPLs having problems because we have the full collateral for this part of our credit portfolio. So that's the overall picture that I have in terms of credit.

關於信貸，我們在 2022 年第一季度做出了正確的決定，將我們的信貸從無擔保產品轉移到有擔保產品。今天，我們有 40% 的信貸組合是有擔保的。我們預計在接下來的幾個季度中，這一比例將在短期內達到 60%。這就是為什麼即使我們在巴西，甚至在企業中看到的這場信貸危機，我們也沒有看到我們的不良貸款有問題，因為我們有這部分信貸組合的全部抵押品。這就是我在信用方面的總體情況。

What could have happened in Brazil in Q4 is that some banks decrease the limits for the credit card holders they have, and that's why, to some extent, could constrain consumption, people that had some limits in credit and now they have a lower limit because some banks are decreasing. And if you look at the results from banks, the quarterly call from some banks, we're seeing some NPLs going up there. So that could be the impact for us. But in the acquiring business, I'm saying, I mean, people with lower credit to spend money. But overall, we don't see this crisis in corporate generating any problem in our credit portfolio or any other operation related to PagSeguro PagBank.

巴西第四季度可能發生的事情是，一些銀行降低了他們擁有的信用卡持有人的限額，這就是為什麼在某種程度上可能會限制消費，人們在信貸方面有一定的限制，現在他們有了較低的限額，因為一些銀行正在減少。如果你看一下銀行的結果，一些銀行的季度電話，我們會看到一些不良貸款在上升。所以這可能是對我們的影響。但在收購業務中，我的意思是，信用較低的人會花錢。但總的來說，我們認為這場企業危機不會在我們的信貸組合或與 PagSeguro PagBank 相關的任何其他業務中產生任何問題。

Our next question comes from Bryan Keane, Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Bryan Keane。

Wanted to ask about the PagBank revenues and the delta to volume. I just want to make sure I understand the delta. And do you expect -- or when do you expect maybe the delta between the gap between volume to revenue growth to close in PagBank?

想詢問 PagBank 的收入和交易量增量。我只是想確保我了解增量。您是否期望——或者您期望 PagBank 的交易量與收入增長之間的差距何時縮小？

Thank you for the question. I guess we are talking about the volumes of PagBank TPV and correlate that with the revenues.

感謝你的提問。我想我們正在談論 PagBank TPV 的數量並將其與收入相關聯。

Right, right.

是的是的。

Yes. A large part of this TPV in PagBank, they are not monetized because it's based on people sending money from PagBank and sending money to PagBank and or from PagBank to someone else. So that's the nature of this money flow coming in, coming out, cash in and cash out. And we do not monetize that. It's more like important for engagement and this kind of stuff, but the revenues are based on transactional when people pay some bills here or spending money with our cards, interchange or related to credit. Those are the 3 main drivers for our revenue.

是的。 PagBank 中的這種 TPV 的很大一部分，它們沒有貨幣化，因為它基於人們從 PagBank 匯款，然後匯款到 PagBank 或從 PagBank 匯款給其他人。這就是資金流入、流出、兌現和兌現的本質。我們不會將其貨幣化。這對參與和這類事情更重要，但收入是基於交易的，當人們在這裡支付一些賬單或用我們的卡、交換或與信用卡消費時。這些是我們收入的 3 個主要驅動力。

So what we had in Q4 is that as we are having this shift from unsecured products to secured products, the duration of these loans are higher than what we had in unsecured products. So we had a decrease in revenues related to credit, and that's why the revenues went down BRL 10 million in PagBank in Q4 compared to Q3. So we cannot correlate that, Bryan, because we are seeing people using more and more bank account. That's why you see deposits are growing and so on. So making this math as a percent of TPV doesn't mean too much, to be honest.

因此，我們在第四季度的情況是，由於我們正在從無擔保產品轉向有擔保產品，這些貸款的期限高於我們在無擔保產品中的期限。因此，我們與信貸相關的收入有所減少，這就是 PagBank 第四季度與第三季度相比收入下降 1000 萬雷亞爾的原因。所以我們無法將其關聯起來，布萊恩，因為我們看到人們使用越來越多的銀行賬戶。這就是為什麼你看到存款在增長等等。因此，老實說，將這個數學計算為 TPV 的百分比並不意味著太多。

Got it. Got it. And my second question is just on the rates and the financial expenses. Obviously, that higher rates pressured the profitability all year. Can you talk a little bit about how much additional pressure you expect in the financial expenses this year that could pressure net income margin?

知道了。知道了。我的第二個問題只是關於利率和財務費用。顯然，更高的利率給全年的盈利能力帶來了壓力。您能否談談您預計今年財務費用的額外壓力有多少可能會壓低淨利潤率？

And then secondly, you mentioned the possibility of cutting rates if rates dropped and not actually keeping the benefit from a rate drop. Can you just make sure you can explain how you guys would go about doing that? Because I was under the assumption that you guys would be able to benefit from lower rates into the profitability would improve.

其次，你提到瞭如果利率下降則有可能降息，而實際上並沒有保持利率下降帶來的好處。你能確保你能解釋一下你們會如何去做嗎？因為我假設你們能夠從較低的利率中受益，從而提高盈利能力。

Bryan, this is Ricardo. I will start with the second question, and then Artur can help us with the first part of the question as it relates to financial expenses and the rates.

布萊恩，這是里卡多。我將從第二個問題開始，然後 Artur 可以幫助我們解決問題的第一部分，因為它與財務費用和利率有關。

If the rates -- interest rates goes down, our financial expenses will go down. And we do not expect to decrease prices automatically. The dynamics or the moving parts here will be the following. In long tail, we had the same rates since 2016. I mean the past years is exactly the same rates, the prepayment, MDR and so on. So if the rates -- the interest rate goes down, we're going to recover margins in long tail in the next business day.

如果利率——利率下降，我們的財務費用就會下降。而且我們不希望自動降低價格。這裡的動態或運動部件如下。在長尾中，自 2016 年以來我們的費率相同。我的意思是過去幾年的費率、預付款、MDR 等完全相同。因此，如果利率——利率下降，我們將在下一個工作日恢復長尾利潤率。

In the SMBs, we will not decrease price automatically. We'll try to keep advantage of this decrease in cost and keep the same levels of MDRs and prepayment so that we can have a better margin in SMBs as well. Of course, there will be some clients that will contact us asking if they could have a better condition or a better price, and some clients will not do that. So the same dynamic that we had when the interest rates went up and we waited a little bit to increase prices, we're going to have the opposite movement at this point. The interest rates go down, and we will not decrease the price automatically for SMBs. So on average, we should have some benefits in the SMBs as well because not everyone will decrease prices in the next business day. It's going to take a while, and some of the clients probably will not even decrease the price for a long time.

在中小企業，我們不會自動降價。我們將努力利用這種成本下降的優勢，並保持相同水平的 MDR 和預付款，以便我們也可以在 SMB 中獲得更好的利潤。當然，會有一些客戶會聯繫我們，詢問是否可以提供更好的條件或更好的價格，而有些客戶不會這樣做。因此，與利率上升時我們的動態相同，我們稍等一下價格上漲，此時我們將出現相反的走勢。利率下降，我們不會自動降低中小企業的價格。因此，平均而言，我們也應該在中小企業中獲得一些好處，因為並不是每個人都會在下一個工作日降價。這需要一段時間，而且一些客戶可能很長一段時間都不會降價。

So in long tail, we're going to receive the benefit automatically. And in SMBs, we'll try to have the benefits as much as we can. Of course, it depends on competition, depends on many variables. But there could be some advantages. That's for sure. When you have 7 million clients who have everything. You have clients that we call in the next business day and clients that don't even pay attention to that in detail. And Artur, to help us in the financial expenses for 2023.

所以在長尾中，我們將自動獲得收益。在 SMB 中，我們將盡可能多地從中受益。當然，這取決於競爭，取決於很多變數。但可能有一些優勢。這是肯定的。當您擁有 700 萬客戶時，他們擁有一切。您有我們在下一個工作日打電話給您的客戶，也有一些客戶甚至沒有詳細注意這一點。還有 Artur，幫助我們支付 2023 年的財務費用。

Yes. Bryan, regarding to financial expenses, we will see in 2023 the expenses higher than 2022 because of 2 reasons. The first one is the volume growth of our prepayment business. And the second point is related to average interest rate for the country that in 2022 was 12.5%. And in 2023, we are expecting at this point that will be stable during the year at 13.75%. So based on those 2 things, the expenses that we are expecting for 2022 will be higher in nominal terms versus 2022.

是的。布萊恩，關於財務費用，我們將在 2023 年看到高於 2022 年的費用，原因有兩個。第一個是我們的預付款業務的數量增長。第二點與該國2022年的平均利率為12.5%有關。到 2023 年，我們預計這一點將在年內穩定在 13.75%。因此，基於這兩件事，我們預計 2022 年的名義支出將高於 2022 年。

That's helpful. Just a quick one. Is there still repricing benefit you will see positively in fiscal year '23? Or did that benefit in Slide 16, the BRL 668 million, was that just a fiscal year '22 phenomenon and you won't see a benefit of repricing in fiscal year '23?

這很有幫助。只是一個快速的。在 23 財年，您還會看到積極的重新定價收益嗎？或者幻燈片 16 中的收益，即 6.68 億雷亞爾，是否只是 22 財年的現象，您不會在 23 財年看到重新定價的好處？

Bryan, there are some moving parts here again, as you can imagine. We will have some benefits in repricing, as I mentioned in the previous answer to the other analysts. We are looking at some niche that we may reprice in the near term. But on the other hand, we have a change in the mix. SMBs are gaining share, and SMBs, they are good business because they have 5x more volume than long tail, but they have a lower take rate. So if you look in absolute terms, we should have benefits. If you look as a percentage, our net take rate or percentage of the revenues, probably we're going to have this pressure because of the mix. So we have these 2 big moving parts here. Repricing from one hand -- from one side, and the change in the mix, SMB growing faster than other clients and then pressuring a little bit take rate. So those are the moving parts here. But as we said before, we expect the EPS accretion in 2023 versus 2022. That's what we are working for.

布萊恩，正如你想像的那樣，這裡又出現了一些活動部件。正如我在之前對其他分析師的回答中提到的那樣，我們將在重新定價方面獲得一些好處。我們正在尋找一些我們可能會在短期內重新定價的利基市場。但另一方面，我們的組合發生了變化。 SMB 正在獲得份額，而 SMB，它們是好生意，因為它們的數量比長尾多 5 倍，但它們的採用率較低。所以如果你從絕對意義上看，我們應該有好處。如果你看一個百分比，我們的淨收入率或收入百分比，可能我們會因為混合而承受這種壓力。所以我們這裡有這兩個大的活動部件。一方面重新定價 - 從一方面，以及組合的變化，SMB 的增長速度比其他客戶快，然後有點壓力。所以這些是這裡的活動部分。但正如我們之前所說，我們預計 2023 年的 EPS 會比 2022 年增加。這就是我們正在努力的目標。

Our next question comes from Josh Siegler, Cantor Fitzgerald.

我們的下一個問題來自 Josh Siegler、Cantor Fitzgerald。

I was wondering -- so far year-to-date, have you seen any notable changes in the micro merchant behavior either in volume or how they're interacting with the platform?

我想知道 - 到目前為止，您是否看到微商行為在數量或他們與平台的交互方式方面有任何顯著變化？

Thank you for the question. No, we didn't see any change in the micro merchant's transformation and change. Of course, we are trying to penetrate PagBank as much as we can. So we see some segments or some clients that are using PagBank more and more, as you could see in the deposits figure that we presented. If you make the math between the average account balance for a client, you see that we grew almost 100% year-over-year. So that's a good change in behavior for micro merchants, and that's all. And that's -- average TPV is also growing, but no big changes that we could comment for you.

感謝你的提問。不，我們沒有看到微商的轉型和變化有什麼變化。當然，我們正在盡可能多地滲透 PagBank。因此，我們看到一些細分市場或一些客戶越來越多地使用 PagBank，正如您在我們提供的存款數據中所看到的那樣。如果您對客戶的平均賬戶餘額進行計算，您會發現我們同比增長了近 100%。所以這對微商來說是一個很好的行為改變，僅此而已。那就是 - 平均 TPV 也在增長，但我們無法為您評論的大變化。

Okay. Understood. And then I'd like to focus on the payroll platform a little bit because it seems like it represents a significant growth opportunity for the company. How are you thinking about the overall impact that this can have for PagSeguro?

好的。明白了。然後我想稍微關註一下薪資平台，因為它似乎代表了公司的重要增長機會。您如何看待這對 PagSeguro 的整體影響？

Well, that's great. I mean we have this payroll platform because we have some clients that would like to use PagBank to pay their employees. And of course, they don't want to come here and make 30 wire transfers, 50 wire transfers, 100 wire transfers. They just want to have a spreadsheet or a file that can just upload. And then with one click, they can do that for up to 2,000 employees. So the idea is to have more clients using us as the primary bank for their businesses. And of course, we're going to try to make this cross-sell for their employees as well. So the idea is to have companies using us to pay their employees so that we can also try to bring their employees to work with us and increase the account balance that we have here because more money coming in, the more money flowing through our ecosystem, the higher the probability of this money to stay with us. And then we have all the benefits with the deposits and lower cost in deposits that we gave some disclosure in the presentation. So the idea is more related to engagement and to make businesses to use PagBank as their primary account.

好吧，那太好了。我的意思是我們有這個工資單平台，因為我們有一些客戶想使用 PagBank 來支付他們的員工。當然，他們不想來這裡進行 30 次電匯、50 次電匯、100 次電匯。他們只想擁有一個可以上傳的電子表格或文件。然後只需單擊一下，他們就可以為多達 2,000 名員工執行此操作。所以我們的想法是讓更多的客戶使用我們作為他們業務的主要銀行。當然，我們也會嘗試為他們的員工進行交叉銷售。所以我們的想法是讓公司使用我們來支付他們的員工工資，這樣我們也可以嘗試讓他們的員工與我們一起工作並增加我們在這裡的賬戶餘額，因為更多的錢進來，更多的錢流經我們的生態系統，這筆錢留在我們身邊的可能性就越高。然後我們獲得了存款的所有好處和較低的存款成本，我們在演示文稿中進行了一些披露。因此，這個想法更多地與參與和讓企業使用 PagBank 作為他們的主要賬戶有關。

Our next question comes from Pedro Leduc, Itaú BBA.

我們的下一個問題來自 Itaú BBA 的 Pedro Leduc。

I want to thank you for the incremental disclosure. I want to dig into the financial expense line a little bit more. But for this quarter, specifically down 7% sequentially. And within that, the securitization of receivables line was the main contributor, down a lot sequentially 30%. Can you help us understand this perhaps a little bit more filling the gaps between -- was it a lower prepayment share? From working capital, it seems like it was a little bit less. And of course, we had less credit this quarter. Maybe it was a lower duration that you securitized or much lower cost. So just help us fill in this line for the quarter, financial expenses, and watch over the securitization down, that will be great.

我要感謝您的增量披露。我想再深入一點財務費用線。但就本季度而言，具體而言環比下降了 7%。其中，應收賬款證券化是主要貢獻者，環比下降 30%。您能否幫助我們理解這一點，或許可以填補兩者之間的差距——這是較低的預付款份額嗎？從營運資金來看，似乎少了一點。當然，本季度我們的信貸較少。也許您證券化的期限較短或成本低得多。因此，只要幫助我們填寫本季度的財務費用這一行，並監督證券化，那將是很好的。

Thank you for the question. It's Artur speaking. So related to the Q4 '22 expenses that we have compared to Q3, so the first point that helped us in these expenses in the quarter was related to the 5 working days less in Q4 in comparison to Q3. The second point was related to share of debits in comparison to Q3. Higher mix of debt cards helped us in this working capital needs. And also the most important point to reduce the cost for us was related to deposits. We increased the number of deposits in Q4, mainly related to the balance accounts from our clients in PagBank account and also because we have a banking license in our group, so we can use these deposits to fund our merchant's prepayment operation. On top of that, based on the results that we obtained across the year and across the whole year since the IPO, that accounted by BRL 5.2 billion. We also helped us to change some expensive lines to better sources to fund the corporate operation.

感謝你的提問。是阿圖爾在說話。因此，與我們與第三季度相比的第四季度 '22 支出相關，所以幫助我們在本季度的這些支出中的第一點與第四季度相比第三季度減少了 5 個工作日有關。第二點與第三季度相比的借方份額有關。更高的債務卡組合幫助我們滿足了這種營運資金需求。對我們來說，降低成本最重要的一點是與存款有關。我們在第四季度增加了存款數量，主要與我們客戶在 PagBank 賬戶中的餘額賬戶有關，也因為我們在集團內擁有銀行牌照，因此我們可以使用這些存款為我們商家的預付款業務提供資金。最重要的是，根據我們全年和自 IPO 以來全年獲得的結果，這佔 52 億雷亞爾。我們還幫助我們將一些昂貴的線路改為更好的資源來為公司運營提供資金。

Okay. Super. And a follow-up on the securitization costs. Of course, you have several ways to securitize your receivables. How did you see those costs, I think percentage of SELIC-wise maybe during the fourth quarter? And how are you seeing it if different now in the first quarter post the credit event that we have in Brazil? Has it changed overall for you?

好的。極好的。以及證券化成本的後續行動。當然，您有多種方法可以將您的應收賬款證券化。您如何看待這些成本，我認為可能在第四季度佔 SELIC-wise 的百分比？如果我們在巴西發生的信貸事件後第一季度現在有所不同，您如何看待它？它對你來說整體上改變了嗎？

Yes. Related to account securitization, we saw during 2022 a reduction in the spread that we are paying for the banks to advance these receivables to them. And especially in Q4, we also see -- we also saw some reduction in comparison to Q3, in comparison to Q2. So it's better to us that we have a good negotiation with the banks. And for Q1 2023, we are seeing almost the same costs that we are paying for Q4. So there is no concern about the AR securitization that we have with the banks at this point.

是的。與賬戶證券化相關，我們看到 2022 年我們為銀行預付這些應收賬款而支付的利差有所減少。特別是在第四季度，我們還看到——與第三季度相比，與第二季度相比，我們也看到了一些減少。因此，我們最好與銀行進行良好的談判。對於 2023 年第一季度，我們看到的成本與我們為第四季度支付的成本幾乎相同。因此，目前無需擔心我們與銀行之間的 AR 證券化。

Our next question comes from Domingos Falavina, JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Domingos Falavina。

Two quick ones. The first, you had some reversals, right, in stock-based compensation and was running BRL 30 million to BRL 40 million. My question is, what's kind of a normalized level that you guys think makes sense for that expense line into 2023? And if you did mention that in the quarter, I missed. Sorry. I'm sorry, I had some connection issues.

兩個快的。首先，你有一些逆轉，正確的，基於股票的薪酬，並且正在運行 3000 萬巴西雷亞爾到 4000 萬巴西雷亞爾。我的問題是，你們認為什麼樣的標準化水平對於 2023 年的費用線有意義？如果你在本季度確實提到了這一點，我錯過了。對不起。抱歉，我遇到了一些連接問題。

And my second question is our bank figures came out, right? And the total year for TPV grew about 30. But December year-on-year was growing at 12. So we are obviously seeing a major deceleration on the back of what you guys lastly mentioned of lower credit limits to the banks. And I mentioned in total credit that was prepaid, but then it has other headwinds, such as PIX and others.

我的第二個問題是我們的銀行數據出來了，對嗎？ TPV 的全年增長約為 30。但 12 月同比增長 12。因此，由於你們最後提到的降低銀行信貸限額，我們顯然看到了大幅減速。我提到了預付的總信用額度，但它還有其他不利因素，例如 PIX 等。

My question is while you don't have any guidance for next year, what would be your best guess for industry TPV growth next year? Do you guys think it grows above 12 -- 12 to 15, 9 to 12? Could you provide an educated guess for us, it will help as well.

我的問題是，雖然您沒有明年的任何指導，但您對明年行業 TPV 增長的最佳猜測是什麼？你們認為它會長到 12 以上—— 12 到 15，9 到 12？您能否為我們提供一個有根據的猜測，這也會有所幫助。

Domingos, thank you for those questions. I will answer the first one related to the non-GAAP adjustments that we have this quarter. So first of all, it's important to say that we have accounting reclassification from non-GAAP to GAAP in terms of capitalization of long-term incentive plan for R&D, specifically for R&D. It's a noncash impact. So it's important to mention that it's a noncash impact. So we have classified some expenses related to amortization that was booked in the wrong place, that was affected the non-GAAP previously. And now in Q4, we adjusted that reclassifying from non-GAAP to GAAP.

多明戈斯，謝謝你提出這些問題。我將回答與我們本季度進行的非 GAAP 調整相關的第一個問題。因此，首先，重要的是要說我們在研髮長期激勵計劃資本化方面從非公認會計原則重新分類為公認會計原則，特別是研發。這是一種非現金影響。因此，重要的是要提到這是一種非現金影響。因此，我們對一些與攤銷相關的費用進行了分類，這些費用記在錯誤的地方，這些費用以前受到了非 GAAP 的影響。現在在第四季度，我們調整了從非 GAAP 到 GAAP 的重新分類。

On top of that, we concluded the year, missing some goals that we had in the long-term incentive plan. And so we reverted the provision that we booked before. On top of that, the share price reduced from Q3 '22 to Q4 '22 from $13.22 to $8.74. Based on that, we also had a reversion of the provisions that we booked until Q3 2022. Related to 2023, we are expecting to back to the same level that we had in Q3 '22, around BRL 30 million, BRL 35 million or in the year BRL 150 million.

最重要的是，我們結束了這一年，錯過了我們在長期激勵計劃中設定的一些目標。因此，我們恢復了之前預訂的條款。最重要的是，股價從 22 年第三季度到 22 年第四季度從 13.22 美元降至 8.74 美元。基於此，我們還取消了我們在 2022 年第三季度之前預訂的準備金。與 2023 年相關，我們預計將恢復到與 22 年第三季度相同的水平，大約 3000 萬巴西雷亞爾、3500 萬巴西雷亞爾或年 1.5 億雷亞爾。

So Domingos, regarding the growth of the industry in 2023, the best data that we have is the ABECS data growing from 14% to 18%. So we had a good January, February. We didn't have [Carnival] in 2022. Now we had Carnival in 2023, so it's not comparable. We know that part of the government that they have is trying to increase consumption or will try to increase consumption. So the best data that they have is to -- the ABECS data to grow between 14% to 18%. The industry, as a whole, will grow that. So that's why we are basing our assumptions that we are working at this point. And if something changes, we can come back to you. But the assumptions that we have are those grow between 14% to 18%, the industry as a whole.

所以多明戈斯，關於 2023 年行業的增長，我們擁有的最好數據是 ABECS 數據從 14% 增長到 18%。所以我們在一月、二月過得很愉快。 2022年我們沒有【嘉年華】，現在2023年有嘉年華，所以沒有可比性。我們知道他們擁有的政府的一部分正在努力增加消費或將努力增加消費。因此，他們擁有的最佳數據是——ABECS 數據增長 14% 至 18%。整個行業都會發展。所以這就是為什麼我們假設我們現在正在工作。如果有什麼變化，我們可以回來找你。但我們的假設是整個行業的增長率在 14% 到 18% 之間。

Our next question comes from Neha Agarwala, HSBC.

我們的下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Neha Agarwala。

Congratulations on the results. And I have 2 questions. First on PagBank. It seems like PagBank achieved good operational efficiency, plus benefited from provisions declining quarter-on-quarter. What other level do you have for 2023 to improve the profitability at PagBank because the revenues are going to be hit 2Q onwards?

祝賀結果。我有兩個問題。首先在 PagBank 上。 PagBank 似乎實現了良好的運營效率，並且受益於準備金環比下降。 2023 年你還有什麼其他水平可以提高 PagBank 的盈利能力，因為收入將在第二季度開始受到影響？

And related to PagBank, most of the growth that you're talking about for the credit business is going to come from the secured loans portfolio, and you expect it to go to 40% -- 60% of total loans. But what about the unsecured loans? Do you still think that the macro is not supporting to grow on the unsecured side -- on the unsecured loan side and you want to be cautious? Or do you think that you can pick up growth maybe in the second half of the year? Just any color on that part would be very helpful.

與 PagBank 相關，你所說的信貸業務增長的大部分將來自擔保貸款組合，你預計它會達到貸款總額的 40% - 60%。但是無抵押貸款呢？你是否仍然認為宏觀經濟不支持無抵押貸款方面的增長——在無抵押貸款方面，你想保持謹慎？還是您認為您可以在下半年實現增長？那部分的任何顏色都會非常有幫助。

My second question is more longer term. So we understand that in the short term, you are focusing on the more profitable merchants, and you're happy to lose some of the (inaudible) merchants. But in the longer term, the long-tail segment is, say, about (inaudible) penetrated. Do you think the nano merchants would, at some point, become profitable, and it would make sense to service them? Or given your experience in the segment now, you believe that this is not a segment that would become profitable enough for you to service them? So anything about that from a more medium to long-term perspective would be helpful.

我的第二個問題是更長期的。所以我們了解到，在短期內，您專注於更有利可圖的商家，並且您很高興失去一些（聽不清）商家。但從長遠來看，長尾部分大約（聽不清）已經滲透。你認為納米商人會在某個時候盈利，並且為他們提供服務有意義嗎？或者根據您現在在該細分市場的經驗，您認為該細分市場的利潤不足以讓您為他們提供服務嗎？因此，從更中長期的角度來看，任何關於這方面的事情都會有所幫助。

Neha, this is Ricardo. I'll start, and then Artur can help us with the provisions and so on. So we start from backwards. When you look at nano merchants, we see -- as always, there are many moving parts here. There are nano merchants that become merchants because of the COVID, because of unemployment, because of pandemic. There are some of these businesses that -- the mortality of these businesses, there are some nano merchants that got a formal job and decide not to work by themselves anymore. So there are many moving parts. And that's why also the nano merchants base at some point, we -- it's not only one reason that it's going down. There are many reasons. Some people may shut down their businesses, they get a job and so on.

內哈，這是里卡多。我會開始，然後 Artur 可以幫助我們處理規定等等。所以我們從後面開始。當您查看納米商戶時，我們會看到——一如既往，這裡有許多活動部件。有些納米商人因為 COVID、失業、大流行而成為商人。這些企業中有一些 - 這些企業的死亡，有一些納米商人找到了一份正式工作並決定不再自己工作。所以有很多活動部件。這就是為什麼納米商人也會在某個時候建立基地，我們 - 這不僅僅是它下降的原因之一。原因有很多。有些人可能會關閉他們的企業，找到工作等等。

Nano merchants, we think they could be profitable, but in such a way that we have PagBank account, they used the account, we can get the data, they have a CD, we can have the benefit of the float and so on. But if you had to subsidize POS, the level that we have today in subsidies, the exchange rate between reais and dollars and so on, it doesn't make sense for us to invest in nano merchant with this risk of mortality and churn and so on that I mentioned because there is no payback. But we can work with these nano merchants in PagBank. We are happy to work with them. And to some point, we keep working with them to sell devices and so on, but we are not subsidizing the same levels that we had in the past that we had thousands of net adds or gross adds, and we didn't have payback. So we were more disciplined in 2022, as we said in all the calls. And that's why we've got these record levels of net income.

Nano 商家，我們認為他們可以盈利，但是通過這樣一種方式，我們擁有 PagBank 賬戶，他們使用該賬戶，我們可以獲得數據，他們有一張 CD，我們可以獲得浮動的好處等等。但是如果你不得不補貼 POS，我們今天的補貼水平，雷亞爾和美元之間的匯率等等，那麼我們就沒有必要投資具有這種死亡和流失風險的納米商戶等等我提到的是因為沒有回報。但我們可以在 PagBank 與這些納米商戶合作。我們很高興與他們合作。在某種程度上，我們一直與他們合作銷售設備等，但我們沒有像過去那樣補貼我們有數千淨增或毛增的水平，而且我們沒有回報。因此，正如我們在所有電話會議中所說，我們在 2022 年更加自律。這就是為什麼我們獲得了這些創紀錄的淨收入水平。

Talking about the unsecured products, we have the processes in place. We've been improving our models. We have a better team than we have in the past. We are investing in this department in the company. But definitely, the macroeconomic scenario doesn't help. We see even the banks that have a lot of experience doing this type of credit in Brazil. Not struggling, but have difficult with NPLs and so on. So definitely, it's not the time to go to the unsecured products.

談到不安全的產品，我們有適當的流程。我們一直在改進我們的模型。我們擁有一支比過去更好的球隊。我們正在投資公司的這個部門。但可以肯定的是，宏觀經濟形勢無濟於事。我們甚至看到在巴西擁有豐富此類信貸經驗的銀行。不是在掙扎，而是在不良貸款等方面遇到困難。所以絕對不是購買無擔保產品的時候。

And by the way, we have a lot of demand for secured products. So that's why we are growing 5% in terms of credit portfolio every quarter. The unsecured product used to be 35, now it's 40. So we have demand for secured products. So there is no reason for us to go to unsecured at this point. If we will be able to do that or if you do that in Q2, we've got to wait a little bit. But at this point, the best info that we have is that we don't have a plan to go to unsecured products in the short term. So Artur, can you help with those provisions and so on?

順便說一句，我們對安全產品有很多需求。這就是為什麼我們每個季度的信貸組合增長 5%。無擔保的產品以前是35，現在是40。所以我們對有擔保的產品有需求。因此，我們目前沒有理由選擇無擔保。如果我們能夠做到這一點，或者如果您在第二季度做到這一點，我們必須稍等片刻。但在這一點上，我們掌握的最好信息是我們沒有計劃在短期內轉向無擔保產品。那麼 Artur，你能幫忙處理這些規定等等嗎？

Yes. In terms of provision, Neha, we increased a lot the level of provisions in Q1, Q2 and Q3. Now in Q4, we could reduce the level of provisions because the level that we have is enough to support the losses that we are expecting for the next 12 months. During the year, we also worked to adjust all the credit models that we have. We adjusted the structure and also the processes. And on top of that, we have 2 other effects that create a good expectation for us in 2023. That is improved in the IFRS 9 provision model that we improved this year and create some comfort to us that we also have this right level for provisions for the future. And also the secure products that now we are originating request less provisions for the future. So we have a good expectation for PagBank in 2023.

是的。在準備金方面，Neha，我們在第一季度、第二季度和第三季度增加了很多準備金水平。現在在第四季度，我們可以降低撥備水平，因為我們的撥備水平足以支撐未來 12 個月的預期損失。在這一年中，我們還努力調整我們擁有的所有信用模型。我們調整了結構和流程。最重要的是，我們還有 2 個其他影響為我們在 2023 年創造了良好的預期。這在我們今年改進的 IFRS 9 撥備模型中得到了改進，並讓我們感到一些安慰，因為我們也有這個正確的撥備水平為將來。還有我們現在原創的安全產品對未來的要求更少。所以我們對2023年的PagBank抱有很好的期待。

Our next question comes from Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的 Tito Labarta。

A couple of questions also. First, good job on expenses. Is there room to improve further, particularly the admin expenses, selling expenses that were down in the quarter? Is there room to cut a bit more? And would that, in any way, impact the growth outlook going forward?

還有幾個問題。一是抓好開支。是否有進一步改善的空間，尤其是本季度下降的管理費用、銷售費用？有沒有再削減的空間？這會以任何方式影響未來的增長前景嗎？

And then my second question, just a little follow-up, I guess, on the take rate. I know you said your debit was higher and somewhat lower growth on PagBank from the secured credit, but it was a big decline compared to 3Q -- as the mix perhaps maybe normalizes and you get more credit, can that take rate get back to where you were last level? Do you see any other pressure on the take rate, just to think about how that can evolve from here?

然後是我的第二個問題，我想只是跟進一下，關於採納率。我知道你說過 PagBank 的借方較高，但擔保信貸的增長率略低，但與第 3 季度相比下降幅度很大——因為組合可能正常化並且你獲得更多信貸，利率能否回到原來的水平你是最後一級？您是否看到任何其他關於採用率的壓力，只是想一想它會如何從這裡演變而來？

Tito, I will start with the take rate, and then we can go back to the expenses. Yes, in Q4, we had a higher participation in the mix with debit transactions, debit volumes. So people using more debit in Q4. We also had shorter duration in the credit card installments when compared to Q3. So these 2 things affect take rate, affect revenues. And also, as we said, the fact that we are shifting our credit portfolio from unsecured to secured, we are kind of postponing the revenues because the duration before for unsecured products was around 1 year, 12 months. And now we have something that is in secured products 3x longer than that. So that's why we are postponing the revenues, and that's the impact that we have in PagBank in terms of revenues.

蒂托，我先從稅率談起，然後我們再回到開支問題上。是的，在第四季度，我們更多地參與了借記交易、借記交易量的組合。所以人們在第四季度使用更多的借記卡。與第三季度相比，我們的信用卡分期付款期限也更短。所以這兩件事會影響接受率，影響收入。而且，正如我們所說，事實上我們正在將我們的信貸組合從無擔保轉向有擔保，我們有點推遲收入，因為無擔保產品之前的期限約為 1 年 12 個月。現在我們在安全產品中擁有比這長 3 倍的東西。所以這就是我們推遲收入的原因，這就是我們對 PagBank 在收入方面的影響。

Looking for 2023, we are not decreasing prices in long tail. We had the same prices in SMBs. It's an ongoing process. Some clients will increase prices. Some clients will decrease prices. Some clients will negotiate. So -- but overall, we're seeing a stable take rate at this point. We are not feeling pressured to decrease take rates at all. But what we have here is the change in the mix. More SMBs work with us. More volumes come from SMBs. So if you look at the weighted net take rate, it could go down, not because we're decreasing prices, but because SMBs are gaining share within our TPV. And as we mentioned before, it's good news because SMBs, they have more volumes than the long tail. So overall, it should make sense in absolute terms. It should be better for us.

展望 2023 年，我們不會降低長尾價格。我們在 SMB 中的價格相同。這是一個持續的過程。一些客戶會提高價格。一些客戶會降低價格。一些客戶會協商。所以——但總的來說，我們目前看到了一個穩定的接受率。我們根本沒有感到降低採用率的壓力。但我們這裡有的是組合的變化。更多的中小企業與我們合作。更多的數量來自中小企業。因此，如果您查看加權淨採納率，它可能會下降，這不是因為我們正在降低價格，而是因為 SMB 在我們的 TPV 中獲得了份額。正如我們之前提到的，這是個好消息，因為中小型企業的數量比長尾多。所以總的來說，它應該是絕對有意義的。它應該對我們更好。

Yes. In terms of OpEx, what I can say is we are expecting expenses growth lower than revenue growth for 2023. And based on the layoffs that we applied in the beginning of January, marketing optimization and also leverage from the infrastructure that we developed in 2020, '21, '22 and also leverage coming from HUBs with more revenue, more volumes with the same structure built until 2021.

是的。就運營支出而言，我可以說的是，我們預計 2023 年的支出增長將低於收入增長。根據我們在 1 月初實施的裁員、營銷優化以及我們在 2020 年開發的基礎設施的槓桿作用， '21、'22 以及來自 HUB 的槓桿作用，這些 HUB 在 2021 年之前具有更多的收入、更多的容量以及相同的結構。

Our next question comes from Sheriq Sumar, Evercore.

我們的下一個問題來自 Evercore 的 Sheriq Sumar。

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes, we can hear you.

是的，我們能聽到你的聲音。

Great. So my question is on the market share dynamics. I see that you haven't provided updated stats for how much was it in this quarter. So any color would be great on that.

偉大的。所以我的問題是關於市場份額動態。我看到您沒有提供本季度的最新統計數據。所以任何顏色都會很棒。

And secondly, how is the competitive dynamics evolved over the -- like over the past year? And where does PagSeguro maintain the edge? And secondly, my second question is on PIX. Nice to see the market share gains, but are there any further investments that you need to make on the sales front or on the technology front? So if you can provide some color on that would be great as well.

其次，競爭動態如何演變 - 就像過去一年一樣？ PagSeguro 在哪裡保持優勢？其次，我的第二個問題是關於 PIX 的。很高興看到市場份額增加，但您是否需要在銷售方面或技術方面進行進一步投資？因此，如果您可以提供一些顏色，那也很好。

Sheriq, when you asked about market share, I assume you are talking about the TPV market share in the acquiring.

Sheriq，當你問及市場份額時，我想你是在談論 TPV 在收購中的市場份額。

That's right, yes.

沒錯，是的。

Okay. Thank you. When you look at a yearly basis, when you compare 2022 with 2021, we gained 120 bps, 1.2% in market share. If you look at Q4 '22 versus Q4 '21, we are gaining 60 bps. In a quarter-over-quarter, comparison, which is Q4 '22 versus Q3 '22, we are losing around 30 to 40 bps. That's the main -- the big picture here. So overall, if you look in a more longer term, we are gaining share. If you look quarter-over-quarter, we are losing this small percentage of share.

好的。謝謝。從年度來看，將 2022 年與 2021 年進行比較時，我們獲得了 120 個基點，市場份額為 1.2%。如果你看看 22 年第四季度與 21 年第四季度的對比，我們將獲得 60 個基點。在季度環比中，比較，即 22 年第四季度與 22 年第三季度，我們損失了大約 30 到 40 個基點。這是主要的 - 這裡的大局。所以總的來說，如果你從更長遠的角度來看，我們正在獲得份額。如果你按季度看，我們正在失去這一小部分份額。

Market share is a consequence of what we are doing, but it's not our main target. We could increase our market share if we wanted to by decreasing prices and so on. But we want to have healthy levels of margins and work with clients that see the value proposition that we have in such a way that we have good levels of profitability and reaching these record levels of net income that we saw in Q4.

市場份額是我們所做工作的結果，但這不是我們的主要目標。如果我們願意，我們可以通過降低價格等方式來增加我們的市場份額。但我們希望擁有健康的利潤率水平，並與看到我們所擁有的價值主張的客戶合作，使我們擁有良好的盈利水平，並達到我們在第四季度看到的這些創紀錄的淨收入水平。

If you look at the market overall, we also see some moving parts here that the players who benefit from -- in Q4 were those from big banks, 2 of them from big banks from -- they are incumbents. And as far as we know, they got some advantage, some tailwinds related to big chain hotels, airlines and these type of merchants that we have lower or no exposure. So in the segments that we work, we are happy with the share that we have. We are working with these clients, increasing TPV per merchant, increasing our net income. So we'll keep working with the clients in a way that we think is better for the company.

如果你看一下整個市場，我們也會在這裡看到一些移動部分，從中受益的參與者——在第四季度是來自大銀行的參與者，其中 2 個來自大銀行——他們是現任者。據我們所知，他們獲得了一些優勢，一些與大型連鎖酒店、航空公司和我們接觸較少或沒有接觸的這類商家有關的順風。因此，在我們工作的細分市場中，我們對所擁有的份額感到滿意。我們正在與這些客戶合作，增加每個商家的 TPV，增加我們的淨收入。因此，我們將繼續以我們認為對公司更好的方式與客戶合作。

Market share is a consequence of what we're doing, but it's not our main target at this point. So that's the main idea of market share.

市場份額是我們正在做的事情的結果，但這不是我們目前的主要目標。這就是市場份額的主要思想。

And related to PIX, we don't need to do additional investments to increase our PIX share. As we saw in the presentation, 9.8% of the PIX transactions in the country. This is very important for us because people use PagBank as primary account. People leave the money here. People leave the money in their account balance, which help us to reduce cost of funding. So -- but going back to your question, straight to the point, there is no additional investments in technology to be made in order to increase our PIX share in the country.

與 PIX 相關，我們不需要做額外的投資來增加我們的 PIX 份額。正如我們在演示文稿中看到的，該國 9.8% 的 PIX 交易。這對我們來說非常重要，因為人們使用 PagBank 作為主要賬戶。人們把錢留在這裡。人們將錢留在他們的賬戶餘額中，這有助於我們降低資金成本。所以 - 但回到你的問題，開門見山，沒有額外的技術投資來增加我們在該國的 PIX 份額。

Our next question comes from James Friedman, Susquehanna.

我們的下一個問題來自 Susquehanna 的 James Friedman。

Good results here. I was wondering if you could share at least some high-level thoughts on the margins. Is there, say, any reason that the company structurally can't return to the teens margins you enjoyed when rates were more favorable?

這裡的好結果。我想知道你是否可以在邊緣分享至少一些高層次的想法。比如說，是否有任何理由表明公司在結構上無法恢復到利率更優惠時您所享受的十幾歲的利潤率？

Well, James, it's -- definitely, we have this -- we had actually this headwind related to interest rates in the country in 2022, although we were able to offset that by repricing our base. So that's the main picture. We had this headwind, and we repriced our base in such a way that it could offset this increase in financial expenses.

好吧，詹姆斯，這是——當然，我們有這個——我們實際上遇到了與 2022 年該國利率相關的逆風，儘管我們能夠通過重新定價我們的基礎來抵消它。這就是主要圖片。我們遇到了這種不利因素，我們重新定價了我們的基礎，以抵消這種財務費用的增加。

Interest rate is important for us. It's an important driver for profitability because, of course, it affects our cost of funding. So if this rate goes down from 13.75% per year to a level below that, we'd take advantage. So how big is going to be this advantage, how big is going to be our -- or benefit, it's hard to say to you at this point. But definitely, if interest rate goes down, we should have better margins.

利率對我們很重要。它是盈利能力的重要驅動力，因為它當然會影響我們的融資成本。因此，如果這個比率從每年 13.75% 下降到低於該水平，我們就會利用。那麼這個優勢有多大，我們的 - 或利益有多大，目前很難對你說。但可以肯定的是，如果利率下降，我們應該有更好的利潤率。

And remember here that, as I mentioned before, SMBs are gaining share in our TPV in acquiring. They have more volumes than compared to long tail, but they have lower take rates. So it makes sense in absolute terms to keep working with these clients, and we will keep investing on that. We launched the payroll platform and so on.

請記住，正如我之前提到的，SMB 正在通過收購獲得我們 TPV 的份額。與長尾相比，它們的交易量更多，但採用率更低。因此，從絕對意義上講，繼續與這些客戶合作是有意義的，我們將繼續為此進行投資。我們推出了薪資平台等。

But if you look as a percentage of the revenues, it's a kind of the headwind. So -- and just to finish here, we -- margin is not something that we are looking for as a main priority because we know that we are increasing our SMB's mix. And also, we are the most profitable company in our industry. So if you compare us on a basis that you divide net income by TPV, you see that we are 3 to 5x more larger than our competitors. So we have the highest profitability of the industry. We are growing. We are having records of profitability, as you could see in the presentation, the record in Q4, the record of the year, 29% higher than what we had in 2021 on a GAAP basis. So we are happy with the profitability that we have at this point because we're balancing our growth with profitability.

但如果你從收入的百分比來看，這是一種逆風。所以 - 就在這裡結束，我們 - 利潤率不是我們正在尋找的主要優先事項，因為我們知道我們正在增加我們的 SMB 組合。而且，我們是我們行業中最賺錢的公司。因此，如果您根據淨收入除以 TPV 來比較我們，您會發現我們比競爭對手大 3 到 5 倍。因此，我們擁有業內最高的盈利能力。我們在成長。正如您在演示文稿中看到的那樣，我們有盈利記錄，第四季度的記錄，今年的記錄，比 2021 年的 GAAP 高出 29%。因此，我們對目前的盈利能力感到滿意，因為我們正在平衡增長與盈利能力。

So -- but going back to your question, if interest rate goes down, it should be a tailwind for us. How big is going to be this tailwind, it's hard to say.

所以 - 但回到你的問題，如果利率下降，那對我們來說應該是順風。這個順風有多大，很難說。

And my follow-up, I think Alex shared some commentary about the investment in the HUBs. And I know that you had disclosed the HUBs as a percentage of the volume or revenue. How -- where are we in the HUBs investment journey? Is it now closer to the middle or the beginning or the end?

在我的後續行動中，我認為亞歷克斯分享了一些關於 HUB 投資的評論。而且我知道你已經披露了 HUB 在數量或收入中所佔的百分比。如何——我們在 HUBs 投資之旅中處於什麼位置？現在是接近中間、開頭還是結尾？

James, I'd tell you that we are more closer to the end because we invest in some HUBs, and we are -- the HUBs that we might open in 2023 is going to be more related to small places or specific places that we see that we need to have an additional HUB, but we will not grow massively our HUBs the way that we grew in 2021 and 2022. So we are working to increase productivity of our HUBs salespeople and try to get more clients in the HUBs, of course, but we are not planning to grow massively the number of HUBs, the same movement that we had in 2021 and the part of 2022.

詹姆斯，我想告訴你，我們離結束更近了，因為我們投資了一些 HUB，我們是——我們可能在 2023 年開放的 HUB 將與我們看到的小地方或特定地方更相關我們需要有一個額外的 HUB，但我們不會像 2021 年和 2022 年那樣大規模發展 HUB。因此，我們正在努力提高 HUB 銷售人員的生產力，並努力在 HUB 中吸引更多客戶，當然，但我們不打算大規模增加 HUB 的數量，這與我們在 2021 年和 2022 年部分時間進行的運動相同。

And James, this is Éric. There is no silver bullet, okay? I think the superior value proposition that we have is based on sales channels, logistics, PagBank fully integrated to the payment service. So HUBs is just a sales channel that we are still exploring and increasing productivity. But at this time, I think most of the investments in HUBs are concluded.

詹姆斯，這是埃里克。沒有靈丹妙藥，好嗎？我認為我們擁有的卓越價值主張基於銷售渠道、物流、PagBank 與支付服務的完全集成。所以HUBs只是我們還在探索和提高生產力的一個銷售渠道。但是這個時候，我覺得對HUBs的投資大部分都結束了。

Our next question comes from Alex Markgraff, KeyBanc.

我們的下一個問題來自 KeyBanc 的 Alex Markgraff。

Can you provide just a bit more context on the upsell and cross-sell opportunity within the merchant base that you've been speaking around? Just kind of describe more or less what that looks like and if there's any way to quantify the opportunity there, that would be helpful. And then I have one follow-up as well.

您能否提供更多有關您一直在談論的商家群中的追加銷售和交叉銷售機會的背景信息？只是或多或少地描述一下它的樣子，如果有任何方法可以量化那裡的機會，那將會很有幫助。然後我也有一個後續行動。

We have, I would say, a very decent penetration levels in our merchant space when we think about PagBank. But you know there are some clients that are not using us as a primary bank at this point. So half of them are using us as a primary bank and half is not using. So that's why we keep investing in the PagBank features, the example that we gave about payroll platform and so on. We launched debit cards a few quarters ago. We are still working on to -- for our clients to use more and more. So I don't have to quantify to you how big is this opportunity.

我想說，當我們考慮 PagBank 時，我們在商業領域的滲透率非常高。但是您知道，目前有些客戶並未將我們用作主要銀行。因此，他們中有一半將我們用作主要銀行，而另一半則沒有使用。所以這就是為什麼我們繼續投資於 PagBank 功能，我們給出的關於薪資平台的例子等等。我們在幾個季度前推出了借記卡。我們仍在努力——讓我們的客戶使用得越來越多。所以我不必向你量化這個機會有多大。

But I'd tell you that in the merchant space, we have a very, very huge opportunity ahead of us because we see that they use us as the acquiring, they might use some features in our PagBank, but we are not a primary bank yet. Once we become the primary bank, we have many, many tailwinds like account balance and take advantage of default and so on. So I don't have here a number to give to you. But the idea is to increase the penetration of PagBank and the usage of PagBank and some clients that -- some of them, we don't have the features yet. Some of them, we need to make them to use. Some of them, we'd convince them to switch from their banks to us.

但我要告訴你，在商業領域，我們面前有一個非常非常巨大的機會，因為我們看到他們使用我們作為收單方，他們可能會使用我們 PagBank 的一些功能，但我們不是主要銀行然而。一旦我們成為主要銀行，我們就會有很多很多順風，比如賬戶餘額和利用違約等等。所以我這裡沒有號碼可以給你。但我們的想法是增加 PagBank 的滲透率以及 PagBank 和一些客戶的使用——其中一些，我們還沒有這些功能。其中一些，我們需要讓它們使用。其中一些，我們會說服他們從他們的銀行轉向我們。

So when you have 7 million clients in that quarter, you can imagine that you have everything. Some of the clients, the they use the feature the way the day that launch some of them, they don't even pay attention. I mean a lot of work, but it's great that we have this huge base, 7 billion -- 7 million clients to explore. As we invest more and more in PagBank would be, I would say, we are going to have more value to offer to these clients.

所以當你在那個季度擁有 700 萬客戶時，你可以想像你擁有了一切。一些客戶，他們在推出其中一些客戶的那天使用該功能，他們甚至沒有註意。我的意思是很多工作，但我們擁有這個龐大的基礎，70 億 - 700 萬客戶，這很棒。隨著我們對 PagBank 的投資越來越多，我會說，我們將為這些客戶提供更多價值。

Okay. That's helpful. And then my second question was just kind of around PagBank customer add expectations. I know you're not guiding, but just very substantial net adds in '22 as we look at some of the charts in the slide deck here. I guess just any sort of thoughts as to how PagBank net adds could look in 2023 just given the really noticeable uptick in 2022.

好的。這很有幫助。然後我的第二個問題只是圍繞 PagBank 客戶增加期望。我知道你沒有指導，但當我們在這裡查看幻燈片中的一些圖表時，22 年的淨增加量非常可觀。考慮到 2022 年真正顯著的增長，我想關於 2023 年 PagBank 淨增加的情況會有什麼樣的想法。

Okay, Alex. So it's kind of related with the previous question. So we closed 2022 with 28 million clients, 60 million of these -- 16 million of these clients, active clients, and 60% of those are pure consumers. So in less than 4 years, we were the second largest bank -- digital bank in Brazil, and it's kind of natural, then we have this level of clients or the level of business, the growth might slow down a little bit, but we expect to keep growing net adds PagBank in 2023.

好的，亞歷克斯。所以這與上一個問題有點相關。因此，我們在 2022 年關閉了 2800 萬客戶，其中 6000 萬——其中 1600 萬客戶是活躍客戶，其中 60% 是純消費者。所以在不到 4 年的時間裡，我們成為了巴西第二大銀行——數字銀行，這是很自然的，然後我們擁有這個水平的客戶或業務水平，增長可能會放緩一點，但我們預計到 2023 年 PagBank 的淨增加量將保持增長。

So we will keep growing, probably not in the same levels that we had in 2022, but we will keep growing the number of clients in PagBank. But the most important thing is just related to our previous question, which is to penetrate more and more PagBank and making more revenues per client that -- from the clients that we have today and from the clients that are using us maybe as a pass-through, and we need to convince them to us more and more. So that's the main idea. So the net adds won't be as big as it was in 2022, but we also want to cross-sell more and more in the base that we have and keep it growing net adds as well.

因此，我們將繼續增長，可能不會達到 2022 年的水平，但我們將繼續增加 PagBank 的客戶數量。但最重要的事情與我們之前的問題有關，那就是滲透越來越多的 PagBank 並從每個客戶那裡賺取更多收入——來自我們今天擁有的客戶以及可能使用我們作為通行證的客戶——通過，我們需要越來越多地說服他們。這就是主要思想。因此，淨增加量不會像 2022 年那樣大，但我們也希望在我們擁有的基礎上進行越來越多的交叉銷售，並保持淨增加量的增長。

Our next question comes from Geoffrey Elliott, Autonomous.

我們的下一個問題來自 Autonomous 的 Geoffrey Elliott。

I wondered if you could give us an update on where you stand on charging for PIX. It looks on the website as if you're now offering 3 PIX on quite a few of your offers. And then secondly, an update on any shift from debit into PIX.

我想知道您是否可以向我們介紹一下您對 PIX 收費的立場。它在網站上看起來好像您現在在相當多的優惠中提供 3 PIX。其次，更新從借方到 PIX 的任何轉變。

Geoff, regarding the PIX, we -- the regular price for long tail is 1.89%. So it's 10 bps lower than debit that we offer for long tail. This kind of transaction could happen in online or it could happen in one of our devices that we just generate the QR code in the POS, and the consumer can pay with their mobile phones. To be honest, the base is very small. So it is growing, but it's a very, very small participation in the mix of the transactions in TPV.

Geoff，關於 PIX，我們 - 長尾的正常價格是 1.89%。所以它比我們為長尾提供的借方低 10 個基點。這種交易可能發生在網上，也可能發生在我們的一種設備上，我們只是在 POS 中生成二維碼，消費者可以用他們的手機支付。說實話，基數很小。所以它在增長，但它在 TPV 交易組合中的參與度非常非常小。

Regarding to PIX and debit, we know that PIX is similar to a debit card transaction because it goes straight to your balance. We don't see that cannibalizing the clients that we have, maybe is cannibalizing part of the debit card transactions. But in Q4, for instance, we didn't see this kind of movement because debit card transactions increased in our base. So people keep using debit cards. The usage is easy. It's safe. People know how to use it. They know if they have our problem, they have chargebacks and so on. So we don't see that as a big transformational movement, although people are using PIX to replace wire transfers, replace cash and replace bank slips, boletos in the e-commerce. Those are the main features that people are using for PIX.

關於 PIX 和借記卡，我們知道 PIX 類似於借記卡交易，因為它直接進入您的餘額。我們沒有看到蠶食我們擁有的客戶，也許正在蠶食部分借記卡交易。但是在第四季度，例如，我們沒有看到這種變化，因為我們基地的借記卡交易有所增加。所以人們繼續使用借記卡。使用很簡單。它是安全的。人們知道如何使用它。他們知道他們是否有我們的問題，他們有拒付等等。所以我們不認為這是一個巨大的轉型運動，儘管人們正在使用 PIX 來取代電匯、現金和銀行單據，電子商務中的 boletos。這些是人們為 PIX 使用的主要功能。

And also important to say that, as you show in the presentation, PIX was a very important headwind for cash-in in PagBank. So we also take a tailwind in PagBank. As you could see, the cash-in through PIX in PagBank was massive and grew like from BRL 50 billion, BRL 59 billion in 2021 to close to BRL 150 billion in 2022. So that's the overall picture about PIX.

同樣重要的是，正如您在演示文稿中展示的那樣，PIX 是 PagBank 兌現的一個非常重要的逆風。因此，我們也在 PagBank 中順風順水。如您所見，PagBank 通過 PIX 獲得的現金數額巨大，從 2021 年的 500 億雷亞爾、590 億雷亞爾增長到 2022 年的近 1500 億雷亞爾。這就是 PIX 的整體情況。

Our next question comes from Jeff Cantwell, Wells Fargo.

我們的下一個問題來自富國銀行的 Jeff Cantwell。

I wanted to ask you if you could give us some high-level thoughts on revenue. We could see your revenue and income of about BRL 4 billion over the past couple of quarters. 2Q was about BRL 3.9 billion. And so just curious if you can sort of walk us through whether BRL 4 billion can grow. Clearly, there's a lot of moving parts to your model right now. So we're trying to think through active users on the PagBank side, active merchants on the PagSeguro side and take rate and so forth. So I was hoping you might be able to give us a little bit of color on the framework of how you're thinking about the plan going forward.

我想問你是否可以給我們一些關於收入的高層次想法。我們可以看到您在過去幾個季度的收入和收入約為 40 億雷亞爾。第二季度約為 39 億雷亞爾。所以很好奇您是否可以帶我們了解 40 億雷亞爾是否可以增長。顯然，您的模型現在有很多活動部件。因此，我們正在嘗試通過 PagBank 方面的活躍用戶、PagSeguro 方面的活躍商家和費率等來思考。所以我希望你能給我們一些關於你如何思考未來計劃的框架的顏色。

Jeff, thanks. So let me walk through the revenues and the best improvement that you have at this point. But we -- of course, we had this small decrease in PagBank revenues because of the duration of the credit products that I mentioned before. So we had this BRL 10 million lower in Q4 versus Q3 in overall PagBank. We had a decrease about BRL 50 million in acquiring in PagSeguro, mainly because of the increase of participation of debit and shorter duration for credit card with installments. So those are the main drivers. So that's why we're kind of flat quarter-over-quarter.

傑夫，謝謝。因此，讓我介紹一下您目前的收入和最佳改進。但是我們 - 當然，由於我之前提到的信貸產品的持續時間，我們的 PagBank 收入略有下降。因此，我們在第四季度比整個 PagBank 的第三季度少了 1000 萬雷亞爾。我們在 PagSeguro 的收購減少了約 5000 萬雷亞爾，主要是因為藉記卡的參與度增加以及信用卡分期付款的期限縮短。所以這些是主要的驅動因素。所以這就是為什麼我們的季度環比持平。

In 2023, as we expect the volumes to grow, revenue should grow as well. And this component would be -- PagBank we expect to grow because credit will keep growing, the secured products. And in PagSeguro, we should expect -- we should not expect take rate to go up because the participation of SMBs in the mix will kind of pressure this net take rate to go down. But overall, revenue should grow.

到 2023 年，正如我們預計銷量會增長一樣，收入也應該會增長。這個組成部分將是——我們預計 PagBank 會增長，因為信貸將繼續增長，這是有擔保的產品。在 PagSeguro 中，我們應該預期——我們不應該期望利率會上升，因為中小型企業的參與會在某種程度上迫使淨利率下降。但總的來說，收入應該會增長。

Talking about Q1, usually in Q1, TPV presents a decrease versus Q4 because Q4 is the high seasonality -- season with Christmas and Black Friday and so on. So -- but we are seeing good trends in revenues in Q1 as well.

談到第一季度，通常在第一季度，TPV 與第四季度相比有所下降，因為第四季度是高季節性——聖誕節和黑色星期五等季節。所以 - 但我們也看到第一季度收入的良好趨勢。

So overall, going back to your question, as we're going to have an increase in volumes, even with the higher participation of SMBs in the mix, we should see increase in the total revenues of the company for 2023.

所以總的來說，回到你的問題，因為我們將增加銷量，即使中小型企業參與度更高，我們也應該看到公司 2023 年的總收入增加。

Much appreciate it. And if I could ask a quick follow-up, similarly thinking on the expense lines, what was interesting this quarter was the revenue came in, and we noticed that the selling line and the admin expense line were a little better versus our model. And so I'm curious if there's a read-through there for 2023, in the context of your prior statements where 10% net income margin seems to be the gating factor. So I was hoping to get either clarification or any additional color about how you're thinking about expenses/operating leverage for the go-forward.

非常感謝。如果我可以快速跟進，同樣考慮費用線，本季度有趣的是收入進來了，我們注意到銷售線和管理費用線比我們的模型好一點。因此，我很好奇是否有 2023 年的通讀，在你之前的陳述中，10% 的淨利潤率似乎是門控因素。所以我希望得到關於你如何考慮未來的費用/運營槓桿的澄清或任何其他顏色。

So regarding to selling expenses, what we have in this -- under this line is total losses, chargebacks and provisions for credit losses as we reduced 30% in comparison to Q3. So we see a great result on this line. And going forward, we also expect a good performance in the selling expenses line. So you can check in the Page 19 in the earnings release this reconciliation of selling expenses. And so we are expecting for the future good performance in this line because we are working hard to reduce the chargebacks in the issuing, in the acquiring and also the credit losses because of the volume and the level of secured products that we have in our credit operation.

因此，關於銷售費用，我們在這條線下的總損失、拒付和信用損失準備金與第三季度相比減少了 30%。所以我們在這條線上看到了一個很好的結果。展望未來，我們還預計銷售費用方面會有良好表現。因此，您可以在收益發布的第 19 頁查看銷售費用的對賬。因此，我們期待這一行未來的良好表現，因為我們正在努力減少發行、收購中的拒付以及由於我們信用中有擔保產品的數量和水平而導致的信用損失手術。

The Q&A session is now concluded. I pass the floor over to Mr. Dutra for his closing statements.

問答環節現已結束。我請 Dutra 先生作閉幕詞。

Hi, everyone. Thank you very much for the participation. Thank you for the questions, for investing your time to talk to us. If you have any problems with connections and so on, we are going to pay attention to that and evaluate what we should do to get a better connection for the next call. Thank you very much. Take care.

大家好。非常感謝您的參與。感謝您提出問題，感謝您花時間與我們交談。如果您在連接等方面有任何問題，我們將予以關注並評估我們應該如何做才能為下一次通話獲得更好的連接。非常感謝。小心。

PagBank conference call is now concluded. Have a nice evening. Thank you.

PagBank 電話會議現已結束。祝你今晚愉快。謝謝。