Onto Innovation Inc (ONTO) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Onto Innovation First Quarter Earnings Release Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Onto Innovation 第一季財報發布電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製。

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mike Sheaffer, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給投資人關係部的 Mike Sheaffer。請繼續。

Thank you, Rachel, and good afternoon, everyone. Onto Innovation issued its 2024 first quarter financial results this afternoon shortly after the market closed. If you did not receive a copy of the release, please refer to the company's website where a copy of the release is posted.

謝謝你，Rachel，大家下午好。Onto Innovation 今天下午盤後不久發布了其 2024 年第一季財務業績。如果您沒有收到該發布的副本，請參閱該公司網站上發布的副本。

Joining us on the call today are Michael Plisinski, Chief Executive Officer; and Mark Slicer, Chief Financial Officer.

今天參加電話會議的有執行長 Michael Plisinski；以及財務長馬克·斯利瑟（Mark Slicer）。

I'd like to remind you that the statements made by management on this call will contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. Those statements are subject to a range of changes, risks and uncertainties that can cause actual results to vary materially. For more information regarding the risk factors that may impact Onto Innovation's results, I would encourage you to review our earnings release and our SEC filings.

我想提醒您，管理階層在本次電話會議上所作的聲明將包含聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性聲明。這些聲明受到一系列變更、風險和不確定因素的影響，可能導致實際結果有重大差異。有關可能影響 Onto Innovation 業績的風險因素的更多信息，我建議您查看我們的收益報告和 SEC 文件。

Onto Innovation does not undertake the obligation to update these forward-looking statements in light of new information or future events. Today's discussion of our financial results will be presented on a non-GAAP financial basis unless otherwise specified. As a reminder, a detailed reconciliation between GAAP and non-GAAP results can be found in today's earnings release. I'll now go ahead and turn the call over to our CEO, Mike Plisinski. Mike?

Onto Innovation 不承擔根據新資訊或未來事件更新這些前瞻性聲明的義務。除非另有說明，今天對我們財務業績的討論將以非 GAAP 財務基礎呈現。提醒一下，您可以在今天的收益報告中找到 GAAP 和非 GAAP 結果之間的詳細對帳。我現在將電話轉給我們的執行長 Mike Plisinski。麥克風？

Thanks, Mike. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our earnings call this afternoon. Strong and anticipated demand for high-bandwidth memory and logic packaging for AI devices resulted in first quarter revenue at the very high end of our guidance range, 15% over the same period a year ago.

謝謝，麥克。大家下午好，感謝大家參加今天下午的財報電話會議。人工智慧設備對高頻寬記憶體和邏輯封裝的強勁預期需求使得第一季營收達到了我們預期範圍的最高端，比去年同期成長了 15%。

Margins came in within guidance, and as Mark will soon outline, we expect to increase gross margin next quarter and improve further in the second half of the year. Before Mark begins, we'll now review the first quarter highlights, starting with the specialty and advanced packaging customers where we delivered our third consecutive quarterly revenue record, a solid 64% increase over the same period a year ago.

利潤率達到了預期，正如馬克很快就會概述的那樣，我們預計下個季度的毛利率將會提高，並在下半年進一步提高。在馬克開始之前，我們先回顧一下第一季的亮點，首先是專業和先進封裝客戶，我們連續第三個季度創下收入記錄，比去年同期增長了 64%。

In the first quarter, revenue for our Dragonfly systems jumped 30% over the prior quarter, almost exclusively to support packaging capacity growth for AI devices. In addition to volume, we also project demand to increase to address new and emerging critical defects, for example, wafers that are being stacked for high-bandwidth memory are used in 2.5D Logic packaging, maybe as thin as 50 to 100 microns.

第一季度，我們的 Dragonfly 系統營收較上一季成長了 30%，幾乎全部用於支援 AI 裝置的封裝產能成長。除了數量之外，我們還預計需求會增加，以解決新出現的關鍵缺陷，例如，用於高頻寬記憶體堆疊的晶圓用於 2.5D 邏輯封裝，可能薄至 50 到 100 微米。

These ultrathin wafers are then prone to the formation of small embedded micro cracks, which may propagate through the silicon, making it more susceptible to breakage. Responding to our customers' needs, our Dragonfly platform has been enhanced with a new sensor to detect the subsurface defects at production capable speeds with orders from several customers and shipments starting in the second quarter.

這些超薄晶圓很容易形成嵌入式小裂紋，這些裂紋可能會擴散到整個矽片上，使矽片更容易破損。為了滿足客戶的需求，我們的 Dragonfly 平台配備了新的感測器，可以在生產速度下檢測地下缺陷，目前已接到多個客戶的訂單，並將於第二季開始出貨。

After a record year in 2023, revenue from power device manufacturers declined in the first quarter, but we continue to add new customers and expand our footprint at existing customers. We expect to see growth return in the second quarter and carrying through to the second half of the year. Much of this demand is to improve yield to increase the factory output without increasing the number of wafer (stacks). Now turning to our advanced nodes business. Revenue did incrementally improve as expected, but remains at quite low levels. Orders to support advanced logic devices represented the largest growth and was roughly half of the revenue from the advanced nodes customers in the quarter and included both Atlas OCD and Iris planar films.

在 2023 年創下紀錄之後，來自功率元件製造商的收入在第一季有所下降，但我們仍在繼續增加新客戶並擴大現有客戶的足跡。我們預計第二季將恢復成長，並持續到下半年。這種需求很大程度上是為了提高良率，在不增加晶圓數量的情況下增加工廠產量（堆疊）。現在轉向我們的高階節點業務。收入確實如預期般逐步改善，但仍處於相當低的水平。支援先進邏輯設備的訂單代表了最大的成長，約佔本季先進節點客戶收入的一半，其中包括 Atlas OCD 和 Iris 平面薄膜。

Now I'll turn the call over to Mark to review our financial highlights and the second quarter guidance.

現在，我將把電話轉給馬克，來回顧我們的財務亮點和第二季度的指引。

Thanks, Mike, and good afternoon, everyone. Before I get into the details, as Mike highlighted, we achieved first quarter revenue and EPS at the high end of our guidance, and we generated strong operating cash flow of $57 million, representing 25% of revenue. First quarter revenue of $229 million was up 5% versus the fourth quarter and up 15% versus the prior year. First quarter EPS increased 11% sequentially to $1.18 and up 28% versus the prior year. Both revenue and EPS at the high end of our guidance range is due to the continued strength of our Dragonfly system to support the demand for advanced packaging of AI compute devices.

謝謝，麥克，大家下午好。在我介紹細節之前，正如麥克所強調的，我們第一季的營收和每股盈餘達到了預期的高位，並且產生了 5,700 萬美元的強勁營運現金流，佔營收的 25%。第一季營收為 2.29 億美元，季增 5%，年增 15%。第一季每股收益環比成長 11% 至 1.18 美元，較上年同期成長 28%。營收和每股盈餘均處於我們預期範圍的高端，這得益於我們的 Dragonfly 系統持續強勁支援對 AI 運算設備先進封裝的需求。

Looking at the quarterly revenue by markets, advanced nodes, which had revenue of $27 million increased 45% over Q4 and represents 12% of revenue. Specialty devices and advanced packaging with quarterly revenue of $158 million, up slightly over Q4 represents 69% of revenue. Software and services with revenue of $44 million increased 4% over Q4, while representing 19% of revenue. We achieved 52% gross margin for the first quarter, in line with our guidance range of 51% to 53%.

從各市場季度營收來看，先進節點營收為 2,700 萬美元，較第四季成長 45%，佔總營收的 12%。專用設備和先進封裝季度營收為 1.58 億美元，較第四季略有成長，佔營收的 69%。軟體和服務收入為 4,400 萬美元，較第四季成長 4%，佔營收的 19%。我們第一季的毛利率達到了52%，符合我們51%至53%的預期範圍。

First quarter operating expenses were $62 million, above our guidance range as we made additional investments in applications engineering within the quarter, extending our product and technology differentiation and fast emerging applications like ultrathin wafer process control that Mike mentioned as well as process tools and inspection for the litho panel packaging for the emerging glass panels.

第一季的營運費用為 6,200 萬美元，高於我們的預期範圍，因為我們在本季度對應用工程進行了額外投資，擴展了我們的產品和技術差異化以及快速崛起的應用，例如 Mike 提到的超薄晶圓工藝控制以及新興玻璃面板的光刻面板封裝的工藝工具和檢測。

Our operating income of $57 million was 25% of revenue for the first quarter compared to 26% from the fourth quarter. Our higher net income performance of 26% came from favorable investment income resulting from our increased cash balance, while our operating income was impacted by the higher operating expenses within the quarter.

我們的營業收入為 5,700 萬美元，佔第一季營收的 25%，而第四季為 26%。我們的淨收入表現更高，達到 26%，這得益於現金餘額增加帶來的良好投資收益，而我們的營業收入則受到本季營業費用增加的影響。

Now moving to the balance sheet. We ended the fourth quarter with cash and short-term investments of $741 million, achieving operating cash flow of $57 million within the quarter, converting 100% of our operating income into cash. Inventory ended the quarter at $330 million, up only $2 million versus Q4, while we continue to ramp Dragonfly production, requiring us to procure longer lead time components. We do expect further reduction in inventory as we remain focused on inventory optimization to drive consistent operating cash flow performance levels exceeding 20% of revenue.

現在轉到資產負債表。截至第四季度，我們的現金和短期投資為 7.41 億美元，本季實現經營現金流 5,700 萬美元，將經營收入 100% 轉化為現金。本季末庫存為 3.3 億美元，僅比第四季增加 200 萬美元，同時我們繼續提高 Dragonfly 產量，這需要我們採購交貨週期更長的零件。我們確實預期庫存將進一步減少，因為我們仍然專注於庫存優化，以推動持續的經營現金流績效水準超過收入的 20%。

Now turning to our outlook for the second quarter. We currently expect revenue for the second quarter to be between $230 million and $240 million. We expect gross margins will improve to 52% to 54%, reflecting the improvements in the supply chain initiatives discussed in prior quarters. For operating expenses, we expect to be between $62 million and $64 million as our annual compensation elements occur within the second quarter each year. Consistent with the prior year, we do expect a decline in operating expenses in the second half as we move past these annual compensation events.

現在來談談我們對第二季的展望。我們目前預計第二季的營收將在 2.3 億至 2.4 億美元之間。我們預計毛利率將提高至 52% 至 54%，這反映了前幾季討論的供應鏈舉措的改善。對於營運費用，我們預計在 6,200 萬美元至 6,400 萬美元之間，因為我們的年度薪酬要素發生在每年第二季。與去年同期相比，隨著年度薪資事件的過去，我們預計下半年的營運費用將會下降。

For the full year '24, we expect our effective tax rate to be between 14% to 16%, which does not assume any impact for potential tax legislative changes that may occur during the year. We expect our diluted share count for the second quarter to be approximately 49.9 million shares. Based upon these assumptions, we anticipate our non-GAAP earnings for the second quarter to be between $1.14 per share to $1.26 per share.

就 24 年全年而言，我們預計有效稅率在 14% 至 16% 之間，這不會受到年內可能發生的稅收立法變化的任何影響。我們預計第二季的稀釋股數約為 4,990 萬股。根據這些假設，我們預計第二季非公認會計準則收益將在每股 1.14 美元至每股 1.26 美元之間。

Our focus in 2024 remains on our targeted programs for quarterly operating improvements. We have several planned productivity improvements that will take effect in the third and fourth quarters and that we expect to provide continued margin improvement. In addition, we expect stronger metrology sales and an improving gross margin from our lithography systems as we work out the last of the very low margin initial orders.

2024 年，我們的重點仍然是針對季度營運改善的目標計畫。我們計劃在第三季和第四季實施幾項生產力改善措施，預計這些措施將持續提高利潤率。此外，隨著我們完成最後一批利潤率非常低的初始訂單，我們預計計量銷售將更加強勁，光刻系統的毛利率也將提高。

And with that, I will turn it back to Mike for additional insights into Q1 and the remainder of 2024. Mike?

接下來，我將把話題轉回給 Mike，以便他進一步了解第一季和 2024 年剩餘時間的情況。麥克風？

Thank you, Mark. For the second quarter, we project demand for AI compute will maintain the record levels of quarterly revenue for Dragonfly systems. As mentioned earlier, we expect power semiconductor revenue to grow in the second quarter, returning to near record levels led by strong Iris's metrology adoption for planar films applications. In the advanced nodes, we expect revenue to increase in both logic and NAND, while DRAM revenues remain soft. The newly projected NAND demand is driven by the need for enterprise solid-state drives and high-density AI servers. These enterprise drives have NAND stacks of over 200 layers where our Atlas and Aspect metrology have established tool of record positions at several of the top NAND suppliers.

謝謝你，馬克。對於第二季度，我們預計對人工智慧運算的需求將維持 Dragonfly 系統季度營收的創紀錄水準。如前所述，我們預計功率半導體收入將在第二季度增長，並回到接近歷史最高水平，這得益於 Iris 在平面薄膜應用領域的計量技術大力推廣。在先進節點，我們預計邏輯和 NAND 的收入都會增加，而 DRAM 收入將保持疲軟。新預測的 NAND 需求是由企業固態硬碟和高密度 AI 伺服器的需求所推動的。這些企業級硬碟具有超過 200 層的 NAND 堆疊，其中我們的 Atlas 和 Aspect 計量技術已經在多家頂級 NAND 供應商中確立了記錄地位。

Also in the quarter, we are on track to ship our first JetStep system to support lithography on glass panels. We believe glass panels will be critical to realize high volume and high-performance chiplet architectures over the next 2 to 3 years. This new system will allow customers to maximize capital investment by supporting both panel production and glass substrate R&D. Through our (PACE) lab, we are demonstrating the process and process control solutions required for this technology.

此外，在本季度，我們將按計劃推出第一套 JetStep 系統，以支援玻璃面板上的光刻。我們相信，在未來 2 到 3 年內，玻璃面板對於實現大批量、高性能小晶片架構至關重要。該新系統將支援面板生產和玻璃基板研發，使客戶能夠實現資本投資最大化。透過我們的（PACE）實驗室，我們正在展示該技術所需的流程和流程控制解決方案。

In addition, we have nearly 20 companies spanning across process chemistry, substrate manufacturing and process equipment, engaging in discussions on potential areas of research and development, important to our manufacturing partners. This new era of AI is revealing many exciting opportunities for Onto Innovation in both packaging and advanced nodes.

此外，我們還有近 20 家涉及製程化學、基板製造和製程設備領域的公司，正在討論對我們的製造合作夥伴很重要的潛在研發領域。人工智慧的新時代為 Onto Innovation 在封裝和先進節點方面揭示了許多令人興奮的機會。

Based on the traction we see with our products and the current demand drivers, our outlook for the year is improving, and we maintain our expectation for the second half of the year will be incrementally higher providing nice momentum going into what is widely believed to be a stronger year for capital equipment in 2025.

根據我們產品所呈現的吸引力以及當前的需求驅動因素，我們對今年的前景展望正在改善，我們維持對今年下半年的預期，並將逐步走高，為進入普遍認為是資本設備更強勁的 2025 年提供良好勢頭。

And now we would like to open the call for questions from our covering analysts. Rachel, please open the lines.

現在我們想開始請我們的首席分析師提問。Rachel，請打開線路。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

謝謝。（操作員指示） Craig Ellis，B. Riley Securities。

Thank you for taking the question and congratulations on the very strong execution. Mike, I wanted to start just by following up on advanced nodes because it's been so quiet for so long and now we're starting to see a nice recovery. So I wanted to understand what you and the team are seeing with respect to the breadth of the logic gains that you talked about? And then the same question for the breadth of the NAND gains?

感謝您回答這個問題，並祝賀您非常出色的執行力。麥克，我首先想跟進高級節點，因為它已經安靜了很長時間，而現在我們開始看到良好的復甦。所以我想了解您和您的團隊對您談到的邏輯效益廣度的看法是什麼？那麼對於 NAND 增益的廣度，還有同樣的問題嗎？

Sure. So for NAND, we'll start there. I mean we've always been extremely strong and well adopted in NAND customers. I think from customer penetration perspective, every NAND customer that we're aware, every NAND suppliers is using our Atlas OCD and several that are working on high stack 3D NAND, which we were talking about 2, 3 years ago with the introduction of our Aspect, we're adopting Aspects, but the ramp just wasn't there. So now we're starting to see the market demand or the market pull for these high stack devices where the Aspect and the Atlas OCD, we expect to have some benefit from the work we did several years back. And if you recall, that's all tied to measuring multiple parameters around these elevator shafts that run up and down the stacks, (side wall angles), tilt, all of that.

當然。對於 NAND，我們將從那裡開始。我的意思是，我們在 NAND 客戶中一直非常強大並且被廣泛採用。我認為從客戶滲透率的角度來看，我們知道的每個 NAND 客戶、每個 NAND 供應商都在使用我們的 Atlas OCD，還有幾家正在開發高堆疊 3D NAND，我們在 2、3 年前推出 Aspect 時就討論過這一點，我們正在採用 Aspects，但還沒有達到預期的效果。因此，現在我們開始看到這些高堆疊設備的市場需求或市場拉動，其中 Aspect 和 Atlas OCD，我們希望從幾年前所做的工作中獲益。如果你還記得的話，這一切都與測量這些沿著煙囪上下運行的電梯井周圍的多個參數有關，（側壁角度）、傾斜度等等。

Going to the Logic, I think you asked about. I wouldn't say -- we're not seeing a ramp as much as we're seeing just continued adoption -- continued proliferation of the market position that we carved out when we first started talking about how important gate all around was. I mentioned in my prepared remarks that the expansions are involving both that orders are involving both the Atlas OCD and the Iris planar films. So it's nice to see both establishing a position in getting repeat business as the pilot line start to move to low volume and then eventually high volume.

關於邏輯，我想你問的是。我不會說 - 我們沒有看到太多的成長，我們看到的只是持續的採用 - 持續的擴張市場地位，這是我們在第一次談論門禁的重要性時所建立的。我在準備好的發言中提到，擴展涉及 Atlas OCD 和 Iris 平面膠片的訂單。因此，隨著試驗生產線開始由低產量轉向高產量，我們很高興看到兩家公司都在獲得回頭客方面確立了地位。

That's very helpful. And then the follow-up question relates to Advanced Packaging and Specialty. Clearly, Dragonfly is very, very strong in AI-related hide bandwidth memory and other applications that you talked about a new opportunity. It sounded like it was related to wafer thinness and product customization that starts to ship in 2Q. I was wondering if you could help size that opportunity and how that factors into your view for a stronger second half and potential for greater shrink in '25?

這非常有幫助。後續問題涉及先進封裝和特殊封裝。顯然，Dragonfly 在 AI 相關的隱藏頻寬記憶體和其他應用方面非常非常強大，這是您談到的新機會。這聽起來好像與第二季開始出貨的晶圓薄化和產品客製化有關。我想知道您是否可以幫助衡量這個機會，以及這對您認為下半年會更強勁以及 25 年會更大萎縮的可能性有何影響？

Yes. Every time we bring up a metrology item, the question is on the sizing. And the challenge with sizing is always sampling rates. So there's a couple of knobs they can turn. Right now, we know it's a high-value problem, and we know that these thin wafers are becoming more, they're still relatively low compared to total number of wafers, but high value, so they're tied to high-bandwidth memory, they're tied to the advanced logic we just talked about. So a lot of value in them that will justify the process control.

是的。每次我們提出計量項目時，問題都是關於尺寸的。而尺寸確定的挑戰始終是取樣率。所以他們可以轉動幾個旋鈕。現在，我們知道這是一個高價值問題，我們知道這些薄晶圓變得越來越多，與晶圓總數相比它們仍然相對較低，但價值很高，所以它們與高頻寬記憶體相關，它們與我們剛才談到的先進邏輯相關。因此，它們中的許多價值將證明製程控制的合理性。

So for us, we're trying to understand, okay, is this -- we're seeing several customers, not just memory and logic, but also some other specialty device manufacturers adopting this technology, particularly automotive. So is this going to be more widely like a must have for every thin wafer application? Is it going to be 2 or 3 per factory? Or is it going to be 100% at certain process steps. These are all -- this is hot technology just coming out to solve an emerging critical challenge.

所以對我們來說，我們試圖了解，好吧，這是——我們看到幾個客戶，不僅僅是內存和邏輯，而且還有一些其他專業設備製造商採用這項技術，特別是汽車。那麼這是否會成為每個薄晶圓應用的必備功能？每個工廠會有 2 個還是 3 個？或者在某些流程步驟中它會達到 100%。這些都是——剛出現的熱門技術，用來解決新出現的關鍵挑戰。

And I think sizing it would be a little bit premature. But compared to -- when I look at the interest from the customers and the risk of not capturing these defects and having entire wafers break inside a tool, which obviously losing or $50,000 wafers bad enough, but then having to stop the line, clean out the tool, requalify that tool and bring it up into production, that's also an impact. So we'll see. But I think towards the end of the year, we'll have much better understanding of where the size of this new sensor technology could be.

我認為對其規模進行評估還為時過早。但相比之下——當我看到客戶的興趣以及無法捕捉這些缺陷的風險以及整個晶圓在工具內破裂的風險時，這顯然會損失 50,000 美元的晶圓，但隨後必須停止生產線，清理工具，重新鑑定該工具並將其投入生產，這也是一種影響。我們拭目以待。但我認為到今年年底，我們將對這種新感測器技術的尺寸有更好的了解。

Yes. That's helpful color even without specific quantification, Mike. But just following up with my -- maybe go at it another way as we think about the year.

是的。即使沒有具體的量化，這也是很有幫助的顏色，麥克。但只是跟進我的問題 — — 當我們思考這一年時，也許可以換一種方式來思考。

You clearly see a stronger second half than first half. Are we talking about low single-digit half-on-half growth mid, high single digit? Any color on the magnitude of gains half-on-half that you can help us with.

你顯然會看到下半年比上半年更強勁。我們談的是低個位數的半年成長率，還是中、高個位數的半年成長率？您可以幫助我們獲得一半對一半的增益幅度的任何顏色。

Single digits. So when I use the word incremental, you can think 3% to 6% kind of numbers, 3% to 7%, something like this land in the middle, 5-ish.

個位數。因此，當我使用增量這個詞時，您可以想到 3% 到 6% 之類的數字，3% 到 7% 之類的數字，例如中間的這個數字，5 左右。

Really appreciate your help, Mike. Thank you so much.

非常感謝你的幫助，麥克。太感謝了。

Yeah, my pleasure.

是的，我很樂意。

Thank you. Brian Chin, Stifel.

謝謝。布萊恩·欽（Brian Chin），Stifel。

Hi there. Good afternoon. Thanks for letting us to ask a few questions.

你好呀。午安.感謝您讓我們提出幾個問題。

So it sounds Mike, like your expectation for second half improvement in WFE has somewhat strengthened. And just to clarify, I guess, first, do you also expect packaging to be higher in second half versus first half?

所以聽起來麥克，你對 WFE 下半年改善的預期有所增強。我想先澄清一下，您是否也預期下半年的包裝價格會比上半年更高？

I expect it to be better than I was indicating in prior quarters. So I've always talked about what I expect to be a digestion period. Based on the velocity of orders and discussions and things like this, it could be a more muted digestion period could be low digestion period. But right now, I'd say that I think it's still some level of digestion probably in the quarter and then reigniting a quarter later.

我預計它會比前幾季所預測的要好。所以我一直在談論我所期望的消化期。根據訂單和討論的速度等，這可能是一個更溫和的消化期，也可能是一個低消化期。但現在，我想說，我認為它可能在本季度仍處於某種程度的消化階段，然後在一個季度後重新開始。

Got it. So you're saying -- when you say the quarter, are you talking about second quarter or third quarter?

知道了。所以您說 - 當您說季度時，您指的是第二季還是第三季？

No, second quarter, I mentioned in my remarks that we expect to be maintaining these record levels. So continuing to be very strong in the second quarter, which is an improvement over the past, I thought we would be slightly down, but we won't be. Then the third and fourth quarter, there's a lot of discussions going on, but timing is not clear. Is it all going to be in the fourth quarter is some of it going to come in. There's been a trend towards pulling stuff in. We don't know yet. Exactly where it all shakes out.

不，第二季度，我在我的發言中提到，我們預計將會保持這些創紀錄的水平。因此，第二季我們繼續保持強勁勢頭，比過去有所改善，我以為我們會略有下降，但事實並非如此。然後是第三季度和第四季度，有很多討論正在進行，但時間尚不清楚。所有這些都會在第四季度發生嗎？現在有一種將東西拉進來的趨勢。我們還不知道。這正是一切發生的地方。

Okay. Got it. And just -- I don't know if you are not including specialty in that, but it did sound like that was a little bit softer than maybe you anticipated in Q1. Was that broad-based? And is your expected improvement in 2Q onwards tied to maybe catch up in some of those delays that maybe happen in Q1? And how does that impact your outlook for the year for specialty?

好的。知道了。而且只是 - 我不知道您是否沒有將專業包括在內，但聽起來這確實比您在第一季預期的要弱一些。這是廣泛的嗎？您預計第二季及以後的改善是否與彌補第一季可能出現的一些延遲有關？這對您對今年的專業前景有何影響？

I think by specialty might mean power semi because specialty, of course, is very strong because it includes the specialty in AP is one category we talked to. But if you mean power semiconductors. So power semiconductors was weak. We projected it to be weak in the first quarter, but it's reaccelerating. And in the second quarter, we mentioned it will be near peak levels.

我認為專業可能意味著電力半導體，因為專業當然非常強大，因為它包括 AP 中的專業，這是我們討論的一個類別。但如果你指的是功率半導體。因此功率半導體表現疲軟。我們預計第一季經濟成長會比較疲軟，但現在卻正在加速。我們在第二季度提到它將接近峰值水平。

And we have talked about in prior comments, I'm not sure if I mentioned it today, but we have talked to being relatively flattish to the record we set last year. So it might pull down single digits or will end up being flat, maybe slightly up, but so relatively flattish to the record we set last year in power semi. So we're expecting a much stronger second half for power semiconductors.

我們在之前的評論中已經討論過，我不確定今天是否提到過，但我們討論的是與去年創下的記錄相比持平。因此，它可能會下降個位數或最終持平，也許略有上升，但與我們去年在電力半導體領域創下的記錄相對持平。因此，我們預期功率半導體下半年將表現更加強勁。

Okay. Got it. And if I could just sneak one last one in. I know obviously, it's pretty early to talk about 2025, but even qualitatively, what sort of indications are you receiving from your advanced packaging customers about their demand in '25? And I know you're already sort of lapping record levels now in terms of peak production for Dragonfly and for that tool. And so I imagine these discussions need to happen kind of earlier to make sure you can prepare the capacity in advance?

好的。知道了。如果我可以偷偷地再做最後一次。我知道現在談論 2025 年還為時過早，但即使從品質上講，您從先進封裝客戶那裡得到了有關他們在 2025 年的需求的什麼樣的跡象？而且我知道，就 Dragonfly 和該工具的峰值產量而言，你們現在已經達到了創紀錄的水平。因此我想這些討論需要儘早進行以確保你能提前做好準備？

You'd imagine that. I wish the customers would think that way too. We are having discussions about 2025. So we're already having those discussions, in particular for our customers supplying packaging for AI, right? So I would say it's still too early to say what that means for the entire year, though. I would just say it's positive that they're seeing demand in already.

你會想像到這一點。我希望顧客也能這麼想。我們正在討論 2025 年。所以我們已經開始進行這些討論，特別是針對為 AI 提供包裝的客戶，對嗎？因此我認為現在判斷這對全年意味著什麼還為時過早。我只想說，他們已經看到了需求，這是正面的。

We're only just starting this year, and they're already talking about what's going into next year. So I'd say that's a positive indication for 2025. And then, of course, you've got the advanced nodes that we expect to improve more meaningfully in 2025. So there's some optimism for hitting on all cylinders in 2025.

今年才剛開始，他們就已經開始談論明年要做什麼了。所以我認為這對 2025 年來說是一個積極的跡象。當然，我們預計先進節點將在 2025 年得到更有意義的改進。因此，人們對 2025 年實現全速發展抱持樂觀態度。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Charles Shi, Needham.

查爾斯·施（Charles Shi），尼德漢姆。

Hey, hey, Mike, Mark. Thanks for getting me to ask a couple of questions.

嘿，嘿，麥克，馬克。謝謝你讓我問幾個問題。

So I think the first one, 30% higher in terms of the Dragonfly revenue supporting the AI chip ramp. If my math is right, I think last year, you probably talked about the total of $230 million of the orders starting from Q2 last year to first half this year. And if Q2 is kind of flattish, sounds like you're saying it's at the similar level, maintain the strength, you're going to deliver the entire $230 million worth of orders by the end of next quarter.

因此我認為第一個，就支援 AI 晶片升級而言，Dragonfly 的收入將增加 30%。如果我算得沒錯的話，我想去年你可能談到的是從去年第二季到今年上半年的訂單總額為 2.3 億美元。如果第二季的業績持平，聽起來你是說它處於相似的水平，保持強勁，你將在下個季度末交付全部價值 2.3 億美元的訂單。

I did notice you talked about a little bit of potential digestion ahead. But I also recall you said that there are orders you already received that will deliver in second half this year, but just not at the same level. So can you kind of help us understand this particular part of the Dragonfly revenue. What's the run rate into second half compared with the first half levels that you're currently seeing? Thanks.

我確實注意到您談到了未來可能出現的一些消化問題。但我還記得您說過，您已經收到了一些訂單，這些訂單將在今年下半年交付，但交付量不會達到原來的水平。那麼您能幫助我們了解 Dragonfly 收入的這一特定部分嗎？與目前看到的上半場水平相比，下半場的運行率如何？謝謝。

So I don't know exactly the math, but I would say your general conclusion is more or less correct. We would have burned through nearly all of the $240 million in Q2, if that was all we ever received for orders. Of course, we've received many other orders since then, such that, a, my confidence has improved, as I mentioned to Brian earlier, I believe it's Brian, that where I talked about digestion period before, now I'm seeing less of that. There may be a slight dip, but not significant.

所以我不知道具體的數學原理，但我想說你的整體結論或多或少是正確的。如果我們收到的訂單只是 2.4 億美元的話，那麼我們將在第二季花掉其中的近乎全部金額。當然，從那時起，我們收到了許多其他訂單，因此，我的信心增強了，正如我之前對布萊恩提到的，我相信是布萊恩，我之前談到的消化期，現在我看到的已經少了。可能會有輕微的下降，但並不明顯。

So yes, so I can't really say with specificity. On timing, Q3, Q4 and all that because we just don't know yet. But I can say that the orders have continued to come in. They're coming in from all of the 3 HBM suppliers. They're coming in from AI packaging logics providers. And -- yes, and they've strengthened since our last call, since the last time we spoke.

是的，所以我無法具體地說。關於時間安排，Q3、Q4 等等，因為我們還不知道。但我可以說，訂單還是不斷湧來。它們來自所有 3 家 HBM 供應商。他們來自 AI 封裝邏輯提供者。是的，自從我們上次通話、自從我們上次談話以來，他們的支持力道已經增強。

Got it. So Mike, obviously, seeing second half potentially mid-single digit higher than first half, especially considered maybe a little bit of digestion of AI-related to Dragonfly. I think a few things you mentioned was kind of interesting. You're seeing maybe a little bit of an early data all around related to demand.

知道了。因此，麥克顯然認為下半年的營收可能會比上半年高出個位數中段，尤其是考慮到可能對與 Dragonfly 相關的人工智慧進行了一點消化。我認為您提到的一些事情很有趣。您可能會看到一些與需求相關的早期數據。

And you also mentioned something really interesting is the NAND that you're seeing some increased demand already. So everybody is focusing on NAND recovery because it's probably the worst performing part of the WFE right now. So I kind of wonder what's the nature of this -- if I call it, the green shoots you're seeing right now is that technology upgrades going on or some of the product penetration going on or there is a capacity addition that's about to start. So any color on NAND would be helpful. Thanks.

您還提到了一件非常有趣的事情，那就是您已經看到 NAND 的需求增加。因此每個人都在關注 NAND 的復甦，因為它可能是目前 WFE 表現最差的部分。所以我想知道這到底是什麼性質的——如果我這麼稱呼它的話，你現在看到的綠芽就是正在進行的技術升級，或者一些產品滲透正在進行，或者是即將開始的產能增加。因此 NAND 上的任何顏色都會有幫助。謝謝。

Yes. I believe it's more of a technology transition demand. So it's going into these AI servers that require higher-performing solid-state drives, so NAND drives. And I believe because I don't think there's been a lot of factory expansions, I believe there is a repurposing of lines and tooling that was existing to support prior generations. So what they're doing is they're repurposing, revamping and this particular, why we're seeing orders in business is because to measure this was very, very difficult. And to my knowledge, we're one of the only tools that can measure these high stack channel holes over 200 stacks of NAND.

是的。我相信這更多的是一種技術轉型的需求。因此，它進入了需要更高效能固態硬碟（即 NAND 硬碟）的這些 AI 伺服器。而且我相信，因為我認為工廠沒有進行大量的擴建，所以我相信現有的生產線和工具會重新利用來支援前幾代產品。所以他們正在做的是重新調整用途、進行改造，而這正是我們在業務中看到訂單的原因，因為衡量這一點非常非常困難。據我所知，我們是唯一能夠測量 200 個 NAND 堆疊上的高堆疊通道孔的工具之一。

And that's a critical parameter for yield. So that's driving that part. I think you asked about gate all around also. I wouldn't say, I mean, it's not new -- like we've been gaining orders to support gate all around from multiple manufacturers of gate all around of that transistor process technology for over a year, probably 18 months now. So this is just kind of a continuation of that. It's nice that it includes some Iris films as well. So we're seeing still a reaffirmation of our position and our layer share or share opportunities within this important node transition.

這是影響產量的關鍵參數。這就是推動這一部分的原因。我想您也問過有關四周大門的情況。我不會說，我的意思是，這並不是什麼新鮮事——就像我們已經從多家採用該電晶體製程技術的閘極環繞式製造商那裡獲得了支援閘極環繞式的訂單，已經有一年多了，可能已經 18 個月了。這只是那種情況的延續。很高興其中還包含一些 Iris 電影。因此，我們仍然看到我們在這個重要節點轉換中的地位和層份額或份額機會的重申。

But you shouldn't take from my comments that there's a ramp coming. I don't think there's a ramp coming. People are still preparing for a ramp.

但你不應該從我的評論中得出「即將出現一個斜坡」的結論。我不認為會出現坡道。人們仍在為坡道做準備。

Got it. But we are all looking forward to that ramp. But maybe a one last thing, a quick clarification. Maybe this is for Mark.

知道了。但我們都期待著那條坡道。但也許還有最後一件事，快速澄清一下。也許這是給馬克的。

Mark, in the press release, is the advanced packaging and the specialty devices revenue was $161 last quarter, but I think I heard you're saying it's $158. So wonder between those 2 numbers, which one is the final one? Thanks.

馬克，在新聞稿中說，上個季度先進封裝和特種設備的收入為 1.61 億美元，但我想我聽到你說的是 1.58 億美元。那麼想知道這兩個數字中哪一個是最終的數字呢？謝謝。

Yes, it would be the $158.

是的，是 158 美元。

Thank you all. I'll hop back into the queue. Thanks.

謝謝大家。我將重新回到隊列中。謝謝。

Thank you. David Duley, Steelhead Securities.

謝謝。Steelhead Securities 的 David Duley。

Good afternoon. Congratulations on nice results. My questions are going to have to do with lithography for advanced packaging. I guess first of all, there's just been a big push by foundry logic customers and now further pushed by the OSATs to expand their capacity. And I'm just wondering if you've seen your lithography tools broaden out in either applications or customers at this point?

午安.恭喜你取得好成績。我的問題與先進封裝的光刻技術有關。我想首先，代工邏輯客戶已經做出了巨大的努力，而 OSAT 則進一步推動其擴大產能。我只是想知道，您是否已經看到您的光刻工具在應用程式領域或客戶領域得到了擴展？

And then I have a follow-on about glass substrates, but I'll let you answer that one first.

然後我會繼續問有關玻璃基板的問題，但我先讓你回答這個問題。

Okay. Applications, I don't believe so, but we don't often know exactly what the applications are and which customers, some of our customers are serving. So some serve multiple customers and some are vertical. So that I don't know if that's expanded. It's been high-performance compute. I would be willing to bet 80% or 100% of it is remaining high-performance compute applications.

好的。應用程序，我不這麼認為，但我們通常並不確切知道這些應用程式是什麼，也不知道我們的一些客戶正在為哪些客戶提供服務。有些為多個客戶提供服務，有些則是垂直的。所以我不知道這是否已經擴大。它是一種高效能運算。我願意打賭其中 80% 或 100% 仍是高效能運算應用程式。

We added customers that we've talked about through the different earnings calls for instance, the step where we talked about on the prepared remarks for glass that can do glass and traditional IC substrates is a new customer. And we've also had existing customers open up new lines and expand new factories and new lines with our JetStep. So that's also a nice positive for us.

我們增加了在不同的收益電話會議上討論過的客戶，例如，我們在準備好的演講中談到的可以生產玻璃和傳統IC基板的玻璃是一個新客戶。而且我們也讓現有客戶利用我們的 JetStep 開闢新生產線並擴大新工廠和新生產線。這對我們來說也是一件好事。

As we look ahead, we're obviously expecting to start adding additional customers as the market starts to recover and high-performance compute server that really the server market starts to get healthy again.

展望未來，隨著市場開始復甦以及高效能運算伺服器真正開始恢復健康，我們顯然期望開始增加更多客戶。

Now as far as the adoption of glass substrates, I thought that was something that was beneficial to your technology. And I guess I thought that, that might help some of the major GPU guys start to move to more of a chiplet or advanced packaging structures. Could you just kind of talk about what the road map is with labs substrates and which parts of the market are going to adopt it first? And will the big GPU customers start to adopt some sort of more advanced packaging for that GPU? Thank you.

就玻璃基板的採用而言，我認為這對您的技術是有益的。我認為這可能會幫助一些主要的 GPU 廠商開始轉向更多的小晶片或先進的封裝結構。您能否談談實驗室基質的發展路線圖以及哪些市場部分將首先採用它？大型 GPU 客戶是否會開始採用某種更先進的 GPU 封裝？謝謝。

Yes. So I think it's a couple of things. So first, volume, so we have high volume for a complicated chiplet architecture, we are going to be connecting multiple die and this package ends up being quite large to process that efficiently and productively. I think everything is going to move towards panel that fits in that frame.

是的。所以我認為這有幾件事。首先是體積，對於複雜的晶片架構，我們擁有很大的體積，我們將連接多個晶片，而這個封裝最終會變得相當大，才能高效、高產地處理這些晶片。我認為一切都將朝著適合該框架的面板的方向發展。

Why glass is because, in addition to that, as you drive these interconnects smaller and smaller going from, let's say, 8 to 10 microns of RDL, down to maybe 5, maybe 3, you can push IC substrate. We're not quite sure. But for sure, below that, like, for instance, 1 micron type RDL, something more stable has to be used. Right now, on a wafer basis, you can use silicon, and that's what's happening for some of the GPU applications you mentioned.

為什麼要使用玻璃，因為除此之外，隨著這些互連越來越小，從比如說 8 到 10 微米的 RDL，下降到可能 5 或 3 微米，您可以推動 IC 基板。我們不太確定。但可以肯定的是，低於這個厚度，例如 1 微米類型的 RDL，必須使用更穩定的東西。目前，在晶圓基礎上，您可以使用矽，這就是您提到的一些 GPU 應用所正在發生的事情。

But for going to much broader scale, something else on a panel will be more efficient. And that, we believe, is going to be glass. So glass will allow 1 micron RDL, at table. There's some heat dissipation advantages with it as well. And so -- but there's a lot of processing challenges, including with etching, and that's part of our wafer application centers working with a lot of the overall ecosystem to identify and develop solutions for these challenges so that we can usher it, not at usher in, but help to speed the adoption of the glass substrate in a panel form for the market.

但從更廣泛的角度來看，面板上的其他東西會更有效率。我們相信，那將是玻璃。因此，在表中，玻璃將允許 1 微米的 RDL。它還具有一些散熱優勢。但有許多加工挑戰，包括蝕刻，這是我們晶圓應用中心與整個生態系統合作的一部分，以確定和開發這些挑戰的解決方案，以便我們能夠引領它，而不是引領它，而是幫助加快市場採用面板形式的玻璃基板。

And this is involving developing the -- not just the lithography capability but also the process control capability. And then with through our partners, some of the other solutions, laser drilling, etching, et cetera, chemistries, resist chemistries, things like this.

這不僅涉及到開發光刻能力，還包括開發過程控制能力。然後透過我們的合作夥伴，提供一些其他的解決方案，如雷射鑽孔、蝕刻等等，還有化學品、抗蝕劑化學品等等。

So just to summarize, glass substrates are way better for, as you mentioned, I guess, high-density interconnects. Is that an enabling feature for GPUs to start to use that type of architecture technology?

總而言之，正如您所提到的，玻璃基板更適合高密度互連。這是 GPU 開始使用此類架構技術的支援功能嗎？

That would be an enabling speaking, yes, but they'd also have to have then the volumes to justify moving from wafer to panel.

是的，這將是一個令人鼓舞的說法，但他們還必須擁有足夠的產量來證明從晶圓轉向面板的合理性。

Yes. Thank you.

是的。謝謝。

Vedvati Shrotre with Evercore.

Vedvati Shrotre 與 Evercore 合作。

Hi, thanks for taking my question. I wanted to double-click on the advanced packaging trajectory that you talked about in terms of orders. Could you remind us what's going on with the lead times? Are they the same 3 to 6 months kind of lead times for your Dragonfly inspection products?

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。我想雙擊您在訂單方面談到的先進封裝軌跡。您能提醒我們交貨時間的情況嗎？你們的 Dragonfly 檢測產品的交貨時間是否都是 3 至 6 個月？

Yes, I would say they're the same lead times. I mean, lead times is interesting because we build to a forecast. So we work with our customers, work on forecasting and then -- so it's not like a lead time is going from order to ordering parts to bringing it in and that kind of thing. That would be a year of a lead time. But what we work with our customers on is about a 3- to 6-month window and that hasn't changed. Even as we've ramped, we've maintained that.

是的，我認為它們的交貨時間相同。我的意思是，交貨時間很有趣，因為我們是根據預測來建立的。因此，我們與客戶合作，進行預測，然後——所以交貨時間並不是指從下訂單到訂購零件再到運送零件之類的事情。那將是一年的準備時間。但我們與客戶合作的時間窗口大約是 3 至 6 個月，這一點沒有改變。即使我們已經加大力度，我們仍然保持著這項傳統。

Got it. So when you talk about the second half and some kind of a digestion in 3Q, is that primarily based on what's in your order book right now? I'm just trying to understand, is this kind of conservatism where you're going off the order book right now, and there could be more that could be added? Or if you could provide more color on that?

知道了。那麼，當您談到下半年和第三季的某種消化情況時，這主要是基於您目前的訂單情況嗎？我只是想知道，這種保守主義是否意味著您現在不遵守訂單，是否還可以增加更多訂單？或者您可以提供更多詳細資訊？

So I try to be as accurate as possible. So it's not just the order books. It's what we project will occur, and we don't have a perfect knowledge. So could some things move -- so we shouldn't get too hung up on the Q3, Q4 because things could move around and they have been moving around as customers ramp plans get more aggressive or they struggle in other areas. And actually, nothing is pushed out, to be honest, everything has been pulled in.

因此我嘗試做到盡可能的準確。因此，這不僅僅是訂單。這是我們預測將會發生的事情，但我們並不完全了解。所以有些事情可能會發生變化——所以我們不應該太糾結於第三季度和第四季度，因為事情可能會發生變化，而且隨著客戶的成長計劃變得更加積極或他們在其他領域遇到困難，事情會一直在變化。而實際上，並沒有什麼東西被推出去，老實說，所有的東西都被拉進來了。

So that could still happen. But I do think -- well, at least based on our knowledge right now, we will not see the second half be, let's say, there will be a digestion. There will be a dip, let's put it that way. That's what we think right now, could it change? Could customers add more orders? Absolutely. And discussions are happening now, and that could happen. But my best, most accurate view is what I'm sharing with you.

所以這種情況仍有可能發生。但我確實認為 - 至少根據我們目前的知識，我們不會看到下半場被消化。可以這麼說，會出現低谷。這就是我們現在的想法，它會改變嗎？顧客可以增加更多訂單嗎？絕對地。現在正在進行討論，這可能會發生。但我最好、最準確的觀點就是我與你們分享的內容。

Right, that's helpful. And is there a bucket between -- or is there a different order trend between HBM versus non-HBM customers?

正確，這很有幫助。HBM 和非 HBM 客戶之間是否存在差異——或者說 HBM 客戶的訂單趨勢是否存在不同？

I wouldn't say there's a different ordering trend. But for sure, HBM is driving a ton of our business. I mean DRAM is still pretty slow. We get incremental orders here and there. But high-bandwidth memory is driving a lot of business. The advanced logic -- the logic packaging is driving a lot as well. So...

我不會說有不同的訂購趨勢。但可以肯定的是，HBM 正在推動我們大量業務。我的意思是 DRAM 仍然很慢。我們到處都接到增量訂單。但高頻寬記憶體正在推動大量業務。先進的邏輯－邏輯封裝也發揮很大的作用。所以...

So the digestion is pretty well spread between HBM and non-HBM products?

那麼 HBM 和非 HBM 產品之間的消化相當均勻嗎？

I would say it's tied to AI. So it's actually it's tied to AI very specifically. So we see power semiconductor in the second half growing, advanced nodes is growing. I think the AI is the question because it's been so strong, it's ramped so much. And I think, is Q3 going to be a little down and then a big surge in Q4 possible. Is that going to get spread around and we see less. These are all the things that customers are working with us on.

我想說它與人工智慧有關。所以它實際上與人工智慧有著密切的聯繫。因此，我們看到下半年功率半導體正在成長，先進節點也在成長。我認為人工智慧是一個問題，因為它太強大了，而且發展速度太快了。我認為，第三季會略有下滑，而第四季可能會大幅成長。它是否會傳播開來而我們見到的會越來越少？這些都是客戶與我們合作的事。

Right. Okay. And then I think shifting gears to specialty devices. So most of the power semi companies have started to take down their CapEx this year. What's sort of giving you the confidence that this continues to grow through, I mean, remainder of the year?

正確的。好的。然後我認為要轉向專用設備。因此，大多數電力半導體公司今年已開始削減資本支出。是什麼讓您有信心這種成長會在今年剩餘時間內繼續成長？

Well, that's the interesting dynamic with process control, is that companies, if they don't have really, really high yields, they can focus on driving more they can focus on output either by driving more capital spend or in a time like this, they can focus on driving the yields up, and generally driving the yields up means bringing in more sophisticated tools to help identify in the process where yield loss is occurring and then go and address that.

嗯，這就是過程控制中有趣的動態，如果公司沒有真正實現高產量，他們可以專注於提高產量，要么通過增加資本支出，要么在這樣的時刻，他們可以專注於提高產量，通常提高產量意味著引入更複雜的工具來幫助識別過程中產量損失發生的位置，然後去解決這個問題。

So that's what we're seeing right now. And our confidence comes from our backlog and the conversations that we're having with the customers. So pretty confident right now in the power semi remain strong.

這就是我們現在所看到的。我們的信心來自於我們的積壓訂單和我們與客戶的對話。因此，我非常有信心，目前電力半市場仍保持強勁。

And then on the advanced nodes, how is your visibility into the back half of this year?

那麼在進階節點上，您對今年下半年的期望如何？

I'd say it's -- the visibility is good. It's as good as what the customers have. The customers are opening new factories and ramping new lines. And as long as those stay on track, we will see what we see. But those things have moved. So we've seen delays announced by some of our large customers. And we're optimistic that those delays are all baked in and that there won't be any more, but I can't guarantee that. But I can tell you we're in close contact, we are meeting with them frequently, working with them frequently. And so at least as soon as they know, I think they're sharing it with us.

我想說的是——能見度很好。它和顧客得到的一樣好。客戶正在開設新工廠並增加新生產線。只要這些保持在正軌上，我們就會看到我們所看到的。但那些東西已經動了。因此，我們看到一些大客戶宣布了延期的消息。我們樂觀地認為，這些延遲都已根深蒂固，不會再發生任何延遲，但我無法保證。但我可以告訴你，我們保持密切聯繫，我們經常與他們會面，並經常與他們合作。所以我認為他們至少在知道之後會與我們分享。

Right. And so is it fair to assume that it will be kind of a sequential growth every quarter here onwards?

正確的。那麼，我們可以合理地假設從現在起每季都會出現連續的成長嗎？

Yes. For advanced nodes, I think that's pretty fair to say. Yes.

是的。對於高級節點，我認為這是相當公平的說法。是的。

Right. And then maybe one last one that I'll squeeze in. On the margin side, you mentioned productivity gains coming around in the back half of this year. Could you kind of help us quantify that? Like what kind of operating expenses and gross margins we should be looking at?

正確的。然後也許我會擠進最後一個。在利潤方面，您提到今年下半年生產力將會提高。您能幫我們量化一下嗎？例如，我們應該關注什麼樣的營業費用和毛利率？

Yes. No, I mean I think from the gross margin standpoint, I mean, we're projecting to have quarter-over-quarter sequential gross margin improvement. I think as we stated before, our goal is to exit the 2024 back at levels that we've seen historically at that -- that would be that revenue level. As we said before, plans that we have in place, it's working with our suppliers, it's working with the plans and driving through efficiencies.

是的。不，我的意思是從毛利率的角度來看，我們預計毛利率將逐季環比提高。我想正如我們之前所說的那樣，我們的目標是到 2024 年回到我們歷史上所見的水平——那就是收入水平。正如我們之前所說，我們已經制定了計劃，正在與我們的供應商合作，按照計劃進行並提高效率。

So I would say a thoughtful way to do it would be the planned margin improvement quarter-over-quarter. Operating expenses in the first half of the year is always tends to be higher for us with some of the compensation elements hitting. But again, we do see a slight decline in the back half of the year. So I wouldn't expect operating expenses to be above the peak of Q2.

因此，我認為一個深思熟慮的方法就是按計劃逐季度提高利潤率。由於一些薪酬因素的影響，我們上半年的營運費用總是會較高。但我們確實看到今年下半年出現了小幅下滑。因此，我預計營運費用不會高於第二季的高峰。

Okay. That's helpful. Thank you.

好的。這很有幫助。謝謝。

Thank you. Mark Miller, The Benchmark Company.

謝謝。馬克‧米勒 (Mark Miller)，The Benchmark Company。

Hello. I'll come back. Just was wondering, you mentioned that certainly high bandwidth memory has been playing a major role. Can you estimate in terms of your current backlog, what percent of the backlog is related to high bandwidth memory for AI applications?

你好。我會回來的。只是想知道，您提到高頻寬記憶體肯定發揮著重要作用。您能否根據目前的積壓情況估計一下，其中有多少百分比的積壓與人工智慧應用程式的高頻寬記憶體有關？

I don't have that in front of me, but I would say it's a high percentage of the backlog.

我面前沒有這個，但我會說它佔積壓量的很大比例。

And extrapolating, it's always dangerous to do this, but extrapolating the next year, do you think that will be also one of the most significant constituents of your backlog? And what did that gate all around, how will that be increasing as a percent of your backlog?

並且進行推斷，這樣做總是很危險，但推斷明年，您是否認為這也將成為您積壓工作中最重要的組成部分之一？那麼，這個門禁系統是做什麼的？

I don't worry so much about the backlog because of our 3 to 6 months in the build to forecast and that kind of thing. So backlog during COVID was a powerful, but prior 20 years, this backlog for us wasn't so interesting. Ever that big are of a good indicator of where our business was going to go. But to answer your question, I'd say HBM is, I would say, interesting.

我不太擔心積壓問題，因為我們有 3 到 6 個月的時間來預測和處理諸如此類的事情。因此，COVID 期間的積壓問題很嚴重，但在之前的 20 年裡，對我們來說，這種積壓問題並不那麼有趣。這麼大的數字對於我們業務的未來發展方向來說是一個很好的指標。但要回答你的問題，我想說 HBM 很有趣。

So the concern is there a bubble happening. There's a lot of ramping of capacity for HBM. I think several players are trying to gain share and gain position. And the current leader is trying to maintain. So there's a lot of capacity coming on, and it remains to be seen, is that excess capacity? Or does AI continue to really outstrip projections and other players come in and that HBM memory gets all used up such that we'd see another big ramp.

因此人們擔心會出現泡沫。HBM 的產能正在大幅提升。我認為有幾家公司正在努力爭取份額並提升地位。而現任領導人正努力維持這一局面。因此，有大量產能正在湧現，但這是否是產能過剩還有待觀察？或者 AI 是否會繼續真正超越預期並且其他參與者加入並且 HBM 內存會被全部用完，這樣我們就會看到另一個巨大的增長。

That part, I don't know so much. So with that, I would say gate-all-around would be a larger -- I would expect gate all around, especially towards the second half would be a larger part of our revenue or backlog for next year.

那部分我不太了解。因此，我想說，門控周圍產品將會佔到更大的比重——我預計門控周圍產品，特別是在下半年，將會成為我們明年收入或積壓訂單的更大一部分。

And then finally, you mentioned an improving margin picture. Is that being driven by newer tools, having higher margin profiles such as your Dragonfly with the new sensor?

最後，您提到了利潤率狀況的改善。這是由較新的工具驅動的嗎？

That's part of it. It's also about the supply chain initiatives that we've talked about, and a lot of those were expected to start adding -- cutting in this year quarter-by-quarter, even starting last year, quarter-by-quarter. So we're seeing improvements from that, too. So it's two fold. The new products and the new product adoptions, and that's where advanced nodes growth will start to really have another impact, but we're taking control of our own destiny. We're also addressing some of the supply chain opportunities we have through the merger.

這是其中的一部分。這也與我們討論過的供應鏈舉措有關，預計其中許多舉措將在今年逐季度開始增加——甚至從去年開始逐季度削減。因此我們也看到了這方面的改善。因此它有兩方面。新產品和新產品的採用，以及先進節點的成長將開始真正產生影響，但我們正在掌控自己的命運。我們也正在解決透過合併而獲得的一些供應鏈機會。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This concludes today's question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the call back to Mike Sheaffer for any additional or closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。現在我想將電話轉回給 Mike Sheaffer，請他做任何補充或結束語。

Thanks again for joining us today. Just a quick reminder for everybody about 3 upcoming events.

再次感謝您今天的參與。只是想快速提醒大家即將發生的 3 件事件。

First, Onto management will be participating in the B. Riley Annual Institutional Investor Conference in Beverly Hills on May 22 and 23. Next, we'll be participating in the Stifel Cross-Sector Insight Conference being held in Boston on June 4 and 5. And finally, we'll be at the Wolfe Research Small and Mid-Cap Conference in New York on June 6.

首先，Onto 管理層將於 5 月 22 日至 23 日參加在比佛利山莊舉行的 B. Riley 年度機構投資者會議。接下來，我們將參加6月4日至5日在波士頓舉行的Stifel跨部門洞察會議。最後，我們將於 6 月 6 日參加紐約的 Wolfe Research 中小型股會議。

A replay of the call today is going to be available on our website approximately 7:30 Eastern Time this evening. I would like to thank you for your continued interest in Onto Innovation. Rachel, please conclude the call.

今天的電話會議重播將於今晚美國東部時間 7:30 左右在我們的網站上提供。感謝您對 Onto Innovation 的持續關注。Rachel，請結束通話。

Thank you. This does conclude today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。