Nu Holdings Ltd (NU) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nu Holdings conference call to discuss the results for the third quarter of 2024.

女士們、先生們，午安。歡迎參加 Nu Holdings 電話會議，討論 2024 年第三季的業績。

A slide presentation accompanies today's webcast, which is available on Nu's Investor Relations website, www.investors.nu in English and www.investidores.nu in Portuguese. This conference is being recorded, and the replay can also be accessed on the company's IR website. (Operator Instructions)

今天的網路廣播附帶幻燈片演示，可在 Nu 的投資者關係網站（英文版 www.investors.nu 和葡萄牙文版 www.investidores.nu）上觀看。本次會議正在錄製中，您也可以在公司的 IR 網站上觀看重播。（操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer at Nu Holdings. Mr. Friedemann, you may proceed.

我現在想將電話轉給 Nu Holdings 投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。弗里德曼先生，您可以繼續了。

(technical difficulty) information to the IFRS financial information are available in our earnings press release. Unless noted otherwise, all growth rates are on a year-over-year FX-neutral basis.

（技術難度）有關 IFRS 財務資訊的資訊可在我們的收益新聞稿中找到。除非另有說明，所有成長率均基於外匯中性因素。

I would also like to remind everyone that today's discussions might include forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance. And therefore, you should not put undue reliance on them. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties and could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in our earnings release.

我也想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述並不是對未來績效的保證。因此，您不應過度依賴它們。這些陳述面臨許多風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與我們的預期有重大差異。請參閱我們的收益報告中所揭露的前瞻性聲明。

Today, our Founder, Chairman and CEO, David Velez, will discuss the main highlights of our third quarter 2024. Subsequently, Guilherme Lago, our CFO; and Youssef Lahrech, our President and CEO, will take you through our financial operating performance for the quarter. After which time, we will be happy to take your questions. Now I'd like to turn the call over to David. David, please go ahead.

今天，我們的創辦人、董事長兼執行長 David Velez 將討論我們 2024 年第三季的主要亮點。隨後，我們的財務長 Guilherme Lago；我們的總裁兼執行長 Youssef Lahrech 將向您介紹我們本季的財務營運表現。之後，我們將很樂意回答您的問題。現在我想把電話轉給大衛。大衛，請繼續。

Thank you, Jorg. Good evening, everyone, and thank you again for being with us today. In the last quarter, our business model anchored in three fundamental principles, customer growth, expanding revenue per customer, and efficient operating costs, has once again demonstrated its strength.

謝謝你，約格。大家晚上好，再次感謝你們今天和我們在一起。上個季度，我們以客戶成長、擴大每個客戶收入和高效營運成本這三個基本原則為基礎的業務模式再次展現了其實力。

We have consistently surpassed expectations in net customers addition, achieving 110 million customers by the end of the quarter, reflecting a 56% increase from the 70 million recorded just two years ago.

我們的淨客戶數量持續超出預期，截至本季末客戶數量達到 1.1 億，比兩年前的 7,000 萬人增加了 56%。

Strong customer additions in Brazil continued to fuel our growth, with an average of 1.1 million new customers each month and bringing the total to 98.8 million at quarter end. As we announced over the past days, we already crossed the mark of 100 million customers in Brazil.

巴西的強勁客戶成長持續推動我們的成長，平均每月新增 110 萬客戶，季末客戶總數達到 9,880 萬。正如我們過去幾天宣布的那樣，我們在巴西的客戶數量已經突破 1 億。

Mexico also experienced strong growth with 1.2 million net adds in the quarter, resulting in a total of 8.9 million customers. This success reinforces our strategy of increasing deposit yields in the country, further enhancing our momentum and solidifying Nu as the leading digital financial platform in Mexico. Moreover, Colombia has reached a significant milestone of 2 million customers and sustaining the positive momentum from the launch of the Cuenta product.

墨西哥也經歷了強勁成長，本季淨增加 120 萬人，客戶總數達到 890 萬人。這項成功強化了我們提高該國存款收益率的策略，進一步增強了我們的發展勢頭，並鞏固了 Nu 作為墨西哥領先數位金融平台的地位。此外，哥倫比亞已達到 200 萬客戶的重要里程碑，並保持了 Cuenta 產品推出帶來的積極勢頭。

Now let's review some key financial highlights. Despite the depreciation of LatAm currencies against the U.S. dollar during the quarter, our revenue surged to $2.9 billion, driven by our successful cross-sell and up-sell efforts, along with our introduction of new products. This solid performance reflects a 56% year-over-year increase.

現在讓我們回顧一下一些重要的財務亮點。儘管本季拉丁美洲貨幣兌美元貶值，但在我們成功的交叉銷售和追加銷售努力以及新產品的推出的推動下，我們的收入飆升至 29 億美元。這一穩健的業績反映了 56% 的同比增長。

Our gross profit stands now at $1.3 billion, marking a 67% year-over-year growth with a gross margin of 45.8%. Net income also saw a robust growth, reaching $553 million, leading to an annualized return on equity of 30%.

目前，我們的毛利為 13 億美元，年增 67%，毛利率為 45.8%。淨利潤也強勁成長，達到 5.53 億美元，年化股本回報率達 30%。

Additionally, our adjusted net income hit $592 million, expanding 10% sequentially and 89% year over year on an FX-neutral basis. These achievements underscore the power of our business model, which combines robust topline growth with solid profitability.

此外，我們的調整後淨利潤達到 5.92 億美元，在匯率中立的基礎上較上季成長 10%，較去年同期成長 89%。這些成就凸顯了我們業務模式的力量，將強勁的營收成長與穩健的獲利能力結合在一起。

On this slide, we demonstrate how our flywheel effectively drives customer engagement, as evidenced by strong cohort of performance on revenues. This consistent compound growth across all cohorts underpins our ability to cross-sell and up-sell to our customers.

在這張投影片中，我們展示了我們的飛輪如何有效地提高客戶參與度，強勁的收入表現證明了這一點。所有群體的持續複合成長支撐了我們向客戶進行交叉銷售和追加銷售的能力。

Increased product adoption boosted by primary banking relationships, which we will further discuss in this presentation, drives increasing ARPACs as cohorts mature over time. This trend is evident across all cohorts in this chart, including the more mature ones, which continue to display robust revenue CAGR. Notably, revenue CAGR for all cohorts acquired this decade is in the triple digits.

我們將在本次演示中進一步討論主要銀行關係推動的產品採用率的提高，隨著群體隨著時間的推移而成熟，從而推動 ARPAC 的增加。這一趨勢在該圖表中的所有群體中都很明顯，包括更成熟的群體，它們繼續顯示出強勁的收入複合年增長率。值得注意的是，這十年收購的所有同類產品的收入複合年增長率為三位數。

Now turning to profitability. We have been presenting this table for several quarters now. In addition to the robust growth observed quarter after quarter, it is important to highlight that in the third quarter, for the first time, Nu Holdings return on equity surpassed 30%, demonstrating the success of our strategy. This achievement was accomplished while still maintaining a robust level of excess capital of $2.4 billion at the holding level with two subsidiaries in Mexico and Colombia, yet to reach profitability.

現在轉向獲利能力。我們已經展示這個表格好幾個季度了。除了逐季強勁成長之外，值得強調的是，第三季度，Nu Holdings 的股本回報率首次超過 30%，這證明了我們策略的成功。在取得這項成就的同時，墨西哥和哥倫比亞的兩家子公司仍保持著 24 億美元的穩健超額資本水平，但尚未實現盈利。

As we make progress in our three geos and execute against this strategy, we continue to be extremely excited with the huge opportunity we have ahead around expanding our platform, increasing market share in our core products, and better monetizing our existing customer base.

隨著我們在三個地區取得進展並執行這項策略，我們繼續對我們在擴展平台、增加核心產品的市場份額以及更好地利用現有客戶群貨幣化方面所面臨的巨大機會感到非常興奮。

In addition, as we had stated earlier in the year, the growth into new verticals as part of our money platform strategy is starting to become a reality and broaden our total addressable market. Recent examples in this strategic path are the launches of NuCel, our debuting telecom services, as well as the developments of NuMarketplace, NuTravel and NuPay. And we're just getting started.

此外，正如我們今年稍早所說，作為我們貨幣平台策略一部分的新垂直領域的成長開始成為現實，並擴大了我們的整體目標市場。這條策略路徑的最新例子包括我們首次推出的電信服務 NuCel 的推出，以及 NuMarketplace、NuTravel 和 NuPay 的開發。我們才剛開始。

With that, I'd like to pass the floor to our CFO, Guilherme Lago, who will go into more details on our financial results. Over to you, Lago.

接下來，我想請我們的財務長 Guilherme Lago 發言，他將詳細介紹我們的財務表現。交給你了，拉戈。

Thank you, David, and good evening, everyone. As David mentioned, we reported another robust quarter marked by sustained revenue growth, enhanced customer engagement and strong operating margins and profitability. Now let's take a closer look at our third quarter results to gain deeper insights into the progress we have achieved against each of our guiding pillars.

謝謝大衛，大家晚上好。正如大衛所提到的，我們報告了又一個強勁的季度，其特點是持續的收入成長、客戶參與度的提高以及強勁的營業利潤率和盈利能力。現在，讓我們仔細看看第三季的業績，以更深入地了解我們在每個指導支柱上取得的進展。

Starting with customer acquisition. We experienced strong growth during the quarter, welcoming 5.2 million new customers to our platform. We closed the quarter with 109.7 million customers, reflecting a 23% year-over-year increase.

從獲取客戶開始。我們在本季經歷了強勁的成長，迎來了 520 萬新客戶來到我們的平台。本季末，我們擁有 1.097 億客戶，年增 23%。

As we continue to add more customers, our focus starts to shift to engaging and retaining them. Our active user base increased by 24% year over year, accompanied by another sequential increase in our monthly activity rate, which now stands at 83.6%, up from 82.8% a year ago. This represents the 12th consecutive quarterly increase in activity rate, underscoring our ability to consistently provide a compelling value proposition to our customers.

隨著我們不斷增加更多客戶，我們的重點開始轉向吸引和留住他們。我們的活躍用戶基數年增 24%，月度活動率也較上季成長，目前為 83.6%，高於一年前的 82.8%。這代表活動率連續第 12 個季度成長，突顯了我們持續為客戶提供令人信服的價值主張的能力。

Moving on to revenue expansion. The first chart on slide 10 shows that Nu has established primary banking accounts with approximately 60% of our active customer base. This strong performance highlights our ability to capture a larger share of wallet among our customer base. Additionally, we are very pleased to see how recent cohorts are reaching this level of principality at an accelerated rate.

繼續擴大收入。第 10 張投影片上的第一個圖表顯示，Nu 已為我們大約 60% 的活躍客戶群建立了主要銀行帳戶。這一強勁的表現凸顯了我們在客戶群中贏得更大份額的能力。此外，我們非常高興地看到最近的一批人如何以更快的速度達到這一水平。

As shown in the chart in the middle of this slide, the average number of products per active customer now stands at four, highlighting the effectiveness of our cross-selling strategy, even as we rapidly onboard more and more new customers. By successfully introducing our products to these new customers, we reinforce our position as their primary banking partner.

如本投影片中間的圖表所示，每位活躍客戶的平均產品數量現在為 4，這凸顯了我們交叉銷售策略的有效性，即使我們迅速吸引了越來越多的新客戶。透過成功向這些新客戶介紹我們的產品，我們鞏固了作為他們主要銀行合作夥伴的地位。

The final chart shows the combined impact of these two powerful dynamics. Significant customer engagement, as depicted in the first chart, together with our expanding cross-sell capabilities, as shown in the second chart, allow us to deliver increasingly favorable performance. So while our average monthly ARPAC stands at around $11, our more mature cohorts are already achieving a monthly ARPAC of $25.

最終圖表顯示了這兩種強大動力的綜合影響。如第一個圖表所示，大量的客戶參與度以及我們不斷擴大的交叉銷售能力（如第二個圖表所示）使我們能夠提供越來越有利的業績。因此，雖然我們的平均每月 ARPAC 約為 11 美元，但我們更成熟的團隊達到每月 25 美元的 ARPAC。

It is also worth remembering that the dynamics of ARPAC in this slide is affected by the acceleration of our customer base in Mexico and more recently in Colombia. While our deposit strategy in these new geos may attract customers who initially engage with the Cuenta product only, a product that generates relatively low ARPAC levels, we are very confident in the long-term results that this growth strategy is expected to yield for Nubank, as we have seen in Brazil for almost a decade now.

另外值得記住的是，這張投影片中 ARPAC 的動態受到我們在墨西哥和最近在哥倫比亞的客戶群加速的影響。雖然我們在這些新地區的存款策略可能會吸引最初只使用Cuenta 產品的客戶（該產品產生的ARPAC 水平相對較低），但我們對這種成長策略預計將為Nubank 帶來的長期結果非常有信心，正如我們在巴西近十年來所看到的。

As shown on the left chart of this slide, while our monthly ARPAC declined $0.02 to $11, on an FX-neutral basis, it grew 2% sequentially and a strong 25% year over year, up from $10 just one year ago and in spite of the customer pickup of the new geos previously highlighted. We remain confident in our ability to increase ARPAC to its full potential over time.

如這張投影片的左圖所示，雖然我們的每月ARPAC 在外匯中性的基礎上下降了0.02 美元至11 美元，但它環比增長了2%，同比強勁增長了25%，高於一年前的10 美元，儘管之前強調的新 geos 的客戶取貨情況。我們對隨著時間的推移充分發揮 ARPAC 潛力的能力充滿信心。

The chart on the right side of this slide highlights that our revenues hit a new record high this quarter of $2.9 billion, up 56% year over year. This growth was driven by the increase in active customers, combined with higher ARPAC levels.

本投影片右側的圖表突出顯示，我們本季的營收創下新高，達到 29 億美元，年增 56%。這一增長是由活躍客戶的增加以及 ARPAC 水平的提高所推動的。

Our consumer finance portfolio, which comprises credit cards and lending, grew strongly during the third quarter of 2024, up 47% year over year and 8% quarter over quarter, both on an FX-neutral basis, and reached a total of $20.9 billion. This growth was fueled by increases across both product categories.

我們的消費金融投資組合（包括信用卡和貸款）在 2024 年第三季強勁成長，在匯率中立的基礎上年增 47%，季增 8%，總額達到 209 億美元。這一增長是由兩個產品類別的成長所推動的。

Our credit cards portfolio continued to grow during the quarter, fueled by further expansions in the shares of wallet across all customer segments, increasing 33% year over year and 4% quarter over quarter on an FX-neutral basis to $15.2 billion.

在所有客戶群的錢包份額進一步擴大的推動下，我們的信用卡投資組合在本季度繼續增長，在匯率中性的基礎上同比增長 33%，環比增長 4%，達到 152 億美元。

Now our lending portfolio posted especially strong performance, growing 97% year over year and 19% quarter over quarter on an FX-neutral basis to $5.7 billion. Lending continues to outpace credit cards and now accounts for 27% of the total portfolio. In line with trends from previous quarters, our lending cohorts demonstrated strong credit performance, allowing us to continue scaling originations.

現在，我們的貸款組合表現尤其強勁，在匯率中立的基礎上年增 97%，較上季成長 19%，達到 57 億美元。貸款繼續超過信用卡，目前佔總投資組合的 27%。與前幾季的趨勢一致，我們的貸款群體表現出強勁的信貸表現，使我們能夠繼續擴大貸款規模。

Now let's turn to the breakdown of our credit card portfolio. Interest-earning installments remained steady at 28% of our total credit card portfolio, aligning with expectations shared last quarter. While demand for our PIX financing products remain strong, we have intentionally slowed the pace of eligibility expansions to more closely monitor performance over the coming quarters.

現在讓我們來看看信用卡投資組合的細分。生息分期付款穩定在我們信用卡投資組合總額的 28%，與上季的預期一致。儘管對我們的 PIX 融資產品的需求仍然強勁，但我們有意放慢了資格擴張的步伐，以便更密切地監控未來幾季的表現。

If the portfolio continues to perform well, we may resume growth in the near term. Our focus is on gathering additional data to ensure our credit models remain resilient. The demand for this product is very clear, and we are strategically managing supply to safeguard credit quality and maintain portfolio resilience.

如果投資組合繼續表現良好，我們可能會在短期內恢復成長。我們的重點是收集更多數據，以確保我們的信用模型保持彈性。該產品的需求非常明確，我們正在策略性地管理供應，以保障信貸品質並保持投資組合的彈性。

In terms of our lending business, originations increased by 79% year over year to BRL15.9 billion in the quarter. Unsecured lending remains the main growth engine, which this quarter alone generated BRL13.4 billion. This demonstrates our ability to continue fostering financial inclusion in Brazil, making credit available to people who previously didn't have access to this product.

就我們的貸款業務而言，本季的貸款發放量年增 79%，達到 159 億雷亞爾。無擔保貸款仍然是主要的成長引擎，光是本季就創造了 134 億雷亞爾的收入。這表明我們有能力繼續促進巴西的金融包容性，為以前無法獲得該產品的人提供信貸。

Now our secured lending origination reached BRL2.5 billion during the third quarter of 2024, accounting for 16% of total lending originations. We are pleased with the good performance we are seeing from the recent introductions of new features for public payroll loans, such as portability top-ups and refinances.

現在，我們的擔保貸款發放量在 2024 年第三季達到了 25 億雷亞爾，佔貸款發放總額的 16%。我們對最近推出的公共工資貸款新功能（例如可移植性充值和再融資）所取得的良好表現感到滿意。

Now, to expand eligibility and the total addressable market, or TAM, we have signed nine new collateral agreements reaching a total of 11, including with the Armed Forces and several major Brazilian states and municipalities. The integration of these entities are ongoing. And once completed, we will tap into more than 70% of the overall TAM for public payroll loans in Brazil and release the product for the newly eligible customers, thus supporting continued growth in originations.

現在，為了擴大資格和總目標市場 (TAM)，我們簽署了 9 項新的附帶協議，總數達到 11 項，其中包括與武裝部隊和巴西幾個主要州和城市的協議。這些實體的整合正在進行中。一旦完成，我們將利用巴西公共薪資貸款總 TAM 的 70% 以上，並為新符合資格的客戶推出產品，從而支持貸款發放量的持續成長。

Now equally exciting is the performance we have seen in the originations of FGTS-backed loans. This product currently accounts for over 50% of our total originations of secured loans, and our market share of new originations already exceeds 25%. This reinforces the strong product market fit of our fully digital distribution channel.

現在同樣令人興奮的是我們在 FGTS 支援的貸款發放中看到的表現。目前該產品占我們擔保貸款發放總量的50%以上，新發放市佔率已超過25%。這加強了我們全數位分銷管道的強大產品市場契合度。

The reduction in credit yields you see in this slide is primarily a result of the increasing share of secured lending within our total originations, as secured lendings typically offer lower yields and lower risks than unsecured loans.

您在這張投影片中看到的信貸收益率下降主要是由於擔保貸款在我們的總貸款中所佔份額不斷增加，因為擔保貸款通常比無擔保貸款提供更低的收益率和更低的風險。

Now moving on to funding. Our total deposits for the quarter increased to $28.3 billion, up 60% year over year on an FX-neutral basis and supported by robust expansions across all of the 3 geos in which we operate. In Brazil alone, deposits reached $23.5 billion, up 6% sequentially on an FX-neutral basis.

現在轉向資金。我們本季的總存款增至 283 億美元，在匯率中性的基礎上年增 60%，這得益於我們營運的所有 3 個地區的強勁擴張。光是在巴西，存款就達到 235 億美元，在匯率中立的基礎上較上季成長 6%。

In addition, we believe our depo rate strategy in Mexico and Colombia is delivering strong results, allowing us to increase deposits in both countries while expanding our mission to empower our customers to gain more control of their financial lives. This has also led to additional cross-sell opportunities and improved unit economics for Nubank. At the close of September, our operations in Mexico reached $3.9 billion in deposits, almost 4x more than three quarters ago.

此外，我們相信我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的存款利率策略正在取得強勁成果，使我們能夠增加這兩個國家的存款，同時擴大我們的使命，使我們的客戶能夠更好地控制自己的財務生活。這也為 Nubank 帶來了更多的交叉銷售機會並提高了單位經濟效益。截至 9 月底，我們在墨西哥的業務存款達到 39 億美元，幾乎是三個季度前的 4 倍。

Now lastly, we are very pleased with our recent performance in Colombia. Just one quarter after the launch of NuColombia's checking account product, consumer deposits reached $900 million, far exceeding our expectations.

最後，我們對最近在哥倫比亞的表現感到非常滿意。NuColombia 支票帳戶產品推出僅一個季度，消費者存款就達到 9 億美元，遠遠超出我們的預期。

Net interest income, or NII, increased 63% year on year. On a sequential basis, NII remained flat in nominal dollars at $1.7 billion and expanded 4% quarter over quarter on an FX-neutral basis. The slowdown in growth was mainly driven by the combination of three factors. First, yields on the credit card portfolio declined, reflecting improvements both in products and customer risk. Second, lending yields declined as previously mentioned in this presentation due to the increasing mix of secured lending. And third, funding costs were pressured by the deposits ramp-up in Mexico and Colombia and in line with our depo rate strategies in new geos. This also impacted net interest margin, or NIM, which compressed 140 basis points to 18.4% this quarter.

淨利息收入（NII）年增 63%。以名目美元計算，NII 環比保持不變，為 17 億美元，在匯率中性的基礎上環比增長 4%。成長放緩主要是由三個因素共同推動的。首先，信用卡投資組合的報酬率下降，反映出產品和客戶風險的改善。其次，如本簡報先前所提到的，由於擔保貸款組合的增加，貸款收益率下降。第三，融資成本受到墨西哥和哥倫比亞存款增加的壓力，這符合我們在新地區的存款利率策略。這也影響了淨利差（NIM），本季淨利差壓縮了 140 個基點至 18.4%。

Now as we look ahead and irrespective of the direction of local interest rates, we are confident that the key driver for future NIM will be the ongoing deployment of our balance sheet capacity through growth in credit originations as well as the repricing of our liability franchises in the new geos.

現在，當我們展望未來時，無論當地利率的走向如何，我們相信未來淨利差的關鍵驅動力將是透過信貸發放的成長以及我們的負債特許經營權的重新定價來持續部署我們的資產負債表能力。

Looking into Mexico, as an example, we launched liquid Cajitas at 15% per year back in November 2023, almost 400 basis points above the TIIE. By October 2024, this rate had already dropped to 12.5% per year, only 200 basis points above the TIIE.

以墨西哥為例，我們早在 2023 年 11 月就以每年 15% 的利率推出了液體 Cajitas，比 TIIE 高出近 400 個基點。到 2024 年 10 月，這一利率已降至每年 12.5%，僅比 TIIE 高出 200 個基點。

Now let's shift our focus to the very last pillar of our strategy, maintaining a low cost to serve. We firmly believe that our platform is among one of the most c.ost-effective in serving customers within our markets. Its low cost to serve represents a significant competitive advantage, and we expect this cost to remain at or below $1 per active customer for the foreseeable future.

現在，讓我們將重點轉移到策略的最後一個支柱上，即保持較低的服務成本。我們堅信，我們的平台是為我們市場內的客戶提供最具成本效益的平台之一。其服務成本低廉，代表著顯著的競爭優勢，我們預計在可預見的未來，成本將保持在每個活躍客戶 1 美元或以下。

And for yet another quarter, we successfully achieved this goal with a cost to serve per active customer at $0.80. On an FX-neutral basis, this represents a 2% year-over-year increase when adjusted for the one-offs in the third quarter of 2024, mostly related to FX impacts on data and cloud costs that had been allocated under customer services and now were reallocated to G&A. During the same period, our ARPAC grew by 25%, and this highlights the strong operating leverage of our business model.

又一個季度，我們成功實現了這一目標，每個活躍客戶的服務成本為 0.80 美元。在匯率中立的基礎上，根據2024 年第三季的一次性因素進行調整後，這意味著同比增長2%，主要與匯率對分配在客戶服務和雲端服務項下的資料和雲端成本的影響有關。同期，我們的 ARPAC 成長了 25%，這凸顯了我們業務模式強大的營運槓桿。

Our gross profit amounted to $1.3 billion, reflecting an increase of 3% quarter-over-quarter and 67% year over year, both on an FX-neutral basis. Now our annualized gross profit margin stood at 45.8%, closer to 2023 levels and in spite of the higher cost of funding in the new geos where we operate, as anticipated during this presentation.

我們的毛利達 13 億美元，季增 3%，年增 67%（皆在匯率中立的基礎上）。現在，我們的年化毛利率為 45.8%，接近 2023 年的水平，儘管我們營運的新地區的融資成本較高，正如本演示中所預期的那樣。

Achieving operational leverage is a fundamental aspect of our strategy. During this quarter, our efficiency ratio improved by 60 basis points quarter-over-quarter, reaching 31.4% and more than 360 basis points better than a year ago. This was achieved even with costs for the third quarter increasing 2% sequentially on an FX-neutral basis, mainly reflecting a one-off in marketing expenses related to the repositioning of the Nucoin program and the impairment of capitalized intangible assets associated with it.

實現營運槓桿是我們策略的一個基本面向。本季度，我們的效率季增了60個基點，達到31.4%，比去年同期提高了360多個基點。即使第三季的成本在匯率中立的基礎上環比增長了2%，但仍實現了這一目標，主要反映了與Nucoin 計劃重新定位相關的一次性營運費用以及與之相關的資本化無形資產減損。

We are poised to capitalize on our platform's operating leverage as we continue to expand our customer base, up-sell and cross-sell products, introduce new features and achieve profitability in the new markets of Mexico and Colombia, which are currently in their investment phases.

隨著我們繼續擴大客戶群、追加銷售和交叉銷售產品、引入新功能並在墨西哥和哥倫比亞新市場（目前正處於投資階段）實現盈利，我們準備充分利用我們平台的營運槓桿。

Lastly, we delivered another quarter of robust profitability, with net income increasing 107% year-on-year to $553 million. This resulted in an all-time high net income margin of 19%. And these positive results emphasize the success of our strategy and of our business model. Also, adjusted net income reached $592 million for the quarter, up 89% compared to a year ago.

最後，我們又一個季度實現了強勁的獲利能力，淨利潤年增 107% 至 5.53 億美元。這導致淨利潤率達到歷史最高水準 19%。這些積極的成果強調了我們的策略和商業模式的成功。此外，該季度調整後淨利潤達到 5.92 億美元，比去年同期成長 89%。

Now while we are pleased with our third-quarter results, our commitment to long-term value remains unwavering. This long-term strategy may require short-term investments to maximize our future opportunities, even if they come at the expense of profitability for a few quarters. We do expect to continue to pursue a number of these strategic short-term investments over the coming quarters as we continue to see new growth avenues for the company.

現在，雖然我們對第三季的業績感到滿意，但我們對長期價值的承諾仍然堅定不移。這個長期策略可能需要短期投資來最大化我們未來的機會，即使它們是以犧牲幾季的獲利能力為代價的。隨著我們繼續看到該公司新的成長途徑，我們確實預計將在未來幾季繼續進行一些策略性短期投資。

Now I'd like to hand the call over to Youssef, our President and Chief Operating Officer, who will walk you through key highlights of our asset quality and credit portfolio health.

現在我想將電話轉交給我們的總裁兼營運長尤瑟夫，他將向您介紹我們資產品質和信貸投資組合健康狀況的主要亮點。

Thank you, Lago. Good evening, everybody. Starting with NPL trends, our leading indicator to 15-90 NPL ratio declined once again during the third quarter, dropping 10 basis points from last quarter to 4.4%. 90-plus NPLs increased by 20 basis points to 7.2%, also in line with expectations. Recall that 90-plus behaves as a stock rather than flow metric in the sense that this quarter's 90-plus houses inventory that was in 15-90 from one quarter ago all the way to three quarters ago. Thus, to understand the movement in 90-plus from last quarter to this quarter, you have to trace it back to the change in 15-90 from four quarters ago all the way to last quarter.

謝謝你，拉戈。大家晚上好。從不良貸款趨勢來看，我們的領先指標不良貸款率在第三季再次下降，為15-90，較上季下降10個基點至4.4%。 90+不良貸款增加20個基點至7.2%，也符合預期。回想一下，90 歲以上的人表現為庫存指標，而不是流量指標，因為本季 90 歲以上的人的房屋庫存從一個季度前一直到三個季度前都在 15-90 之間。因此，要了解上季度到本季90+的變化，就必須追溯到四個季度前一直到上季度的15-90的變化。

As discussed in past earnings calls, we are intentionally and strategically growing our lending book and expanding down the credit spectrum where we see attractive opportunities. In line with our credit philosophy, we prioritize decisions that optimize the net present value of the lifetime of our customer relationships, rather than focusing solely on short-term NPL metrics.

正如過去的財報電話會議中所討論的那樣，我們正在有意和策略性地擴大我們的貸款規模，並擴大我們看到有吸引力的機會的信貸範圍。根據我們的信用理念，我們優先考慮優化客戶關係生命週期淨現值的決策，而不是只專注於短期不良貸款指標。

When we identify asset classes or customer segments with compelling risk-adjusted returns that promote responsible customer behavior, we actively pursue growth in these areas, in line with our strategy of pursuing primary banking relationship status with increasing engagement and cross-selling and up-selling over time.

當我們確定具有令人信服的風險調整回報、促進負責任的客戶行為的資產類別或客戶群時，我們將積極追求這些領域的成長，這符合我們透過提高參與度、交叉銷售和追加銷售來追求主要銀行關係地位的策略隨著時間的推移。

As we will show in the following slides, this strategy has yielded increased revenue and greater resilience, more than offsetting the higher delinquency rates that come with it, all within our risk appetite. This slide shows asset quality trends, both 15-90 and 90-plus NPLs, this time on the basis of interest-earning balances rather than total receivables.

正如我們將在下面的幻燈片中展示的那樣，該策略增加了收入並增強了彈性，遠遠抵消了隨之而來的較高的拖欠率，所有這些都在我們的風險偏好範圍內。這張投影片顯示了資產品質趨勢，包括 15-90 和 90 以上的不良貸款，這次是基於生息餘額而不是應收帳款總額。

Here, you can see a stable to declining trend in the last few years. This demonstrates that we have been rewarded for the additional risk we've taken, reinforcing our strategic decision to focus on maximizing NPV, i.e., the lifetime value of customer relationships rather than solely optimizing delinquency metrics. Aligned with the growth pace of our credit portfolio and early delinquency performance, credit loss allowance expenses increased by 6% on an FX-neutral basis to $774 million this quarter.

在這裡，您可以看到過去幾年穩定到下降的趨勢。這表明我們因承擔的額外風險而獲得了回報，強化了我們的策略決策，即專注於最大化 NPV，即客戶關係的終身價值，而不是僅僅優化拖欠指標。與我們信貸投資組合的成長速度和早期拖欠表現一致，本季信貸損失準備金支出在匯率中性的基礎上成長了 6%，達到 7.74 億美元。

Finally, risk-adjusted NIM decreased by 90 basis points in the quarter as a result of the 140 basis point decrease in NIM, as explained by Lago earlier, which was partially offset by a 50 basis point improvement in cost of risk.

最後，正如拉戈早些時候所解釋的那樣，本季度經風險調整後的淨息差下降了90 個基點，因為淨息差下降了140 個基點，但風險成本改善了50 個基點，部分抵消了這一影響。

On a year-on-year basis, risk-adjusted NIM increased by 110 basis points, underscoring once again the result of our focus on optimizing the lifetime value of our customer relationship cohorts. With that, we're now ready to take your questions. Thank you very much.

與去年同期相比，風險調整後的淨利差增加了 110 個基點，再次凸顯了我們專注於優化客戶關係群終身價值的成果。至此，我們現在準備好回答您的問題了。非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) I would like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer.

（操作員指示）我想將電話轉給投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。

Jorge Kuri, Morgan Stanley.

豪爾赫‧庫裡，摩根士丹利。

Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my question and congrats on the great numbers. I wanted to ask about NuCel. Can you maybe share with us what is the business model like? What is the revenue model? Are you charging a commission? Are you renting the network and then creating your own revenue? Or just basically passing on a fraction of the revenues to the carriers? What are the unit economics? How profitable this could be? And how do you see this impacting your financials over time?

大家好。感謝您提出我的問題，並祝賀您獲得瞭如此多的數字。我想問一下 NuCel 的事。您能否與我們分享一下商業模式是怎麼樣的？獲利模式是什麼？你們有收取佣金嗎？您是否租用網路然後創造自己的收入？還是只是將一小部分收入基本上轉移給營運商？單位經濟效益是什麼？這能帶來多少利潤？隨著時間的推移，您如何看待這對您的財務狀況的影響？

Is this something that could potentially be material? Should consensus be start thinking about it? Or is this sort of like an add-on that adds to the overall ecosystem without necessarily becoming a big part of your P&L? Thank you.

這是否可能是實質的？是否應該開始考慮共識？或者這有點像一個附加元件，可以添加到整個生態系統中，但不一定成為您損益表的重要組成部分？謝謝。

Hi, Jorge. Here David. Thank you for your question. So listen, take a little step back. When I go back 10 years in time and I remember the industries that we were discussing around opportunity for disruption in Brazil and Latin America, there were two classes of industries that were in the companies that were disliked the most by Brazilians. The first ones were banks. The second ones were telecoms. That has changed over the past 10 years. We like to think maybe because we brought more competition in the industry.

嗨，豪爾赫。這裡是大衛。謝謝你的提問。所以聽著，退後一步。當我回到十年前時，我記得我們圍繞巴西和拉丁美洲的顛覆機會討論的行業，有兩類行業是巴西人最不喜歡的公司。第一個是銀行。第二個是電信。過去10年情況發生了變化。我們喜歡思考也許是因為我們為產業帶來了更多的競爭。

But on the telecom side, there's still a lot of opportunity to improve consumer experience. The NPS is low. The general offering for consumers is very complex. When we talk to customers, 7 out of the 10 things that customers talk the most about their plans is around the user experience.

但在電信方面，改善消費者體驗的機會仍然很多。NPS 較低。為消費者提供的一般產品非常複雜。當我們與客戶交談時，客戶談論最多的 10 件事中有 7 件事與使用者體驗有關。

There is too many different plans, too many different bonuses, too many different footnotes. So that combination of an industry that has hundreds of millions of lines in Brazil, combined with low consumer experience, creates a very obviously target for us as we, as a company, see our mission to be fighting complexity through empowering people.

有太多不同的計劃，太多不同的獎金，太多不同的腳註。因此，巴西擁有數億條生產線的行業與較低的消費者體驗相結合，為我們創造了一個非常明顯的目標，因為我們作為一家公司，認為我們的使命是透過賦予人們權力來應對複雜性。

So we've been looking at the industry for a long time. I think the complexity of entering the telecom space, especially as an MVNO, is as many people have mentioned, generally, you have disincentives with your provider because if you're growing too much, you're cannibalizing the MNO that is giving you access to the network.

所以我們已經關注這個行業很久了。我認為進入電信領域的複雜性，特別是作為MVNO，正如許多人所提到的那樣，一般來說，您對提供者的激勵措施會受到抑制，因為如果您增長太多，您就會蠶食為您提供存取權限的MNO到網路。

So it took us for a long time to try to find the right partner and the right contract to be able to negotiate a deal, in this case with Claro, that align fully incentives. And what this really means is instead of just simply passing a fixed fee, we have our revenue share contract. We're not able to disclose exactly what the revenue share is, but it's a situation where we're sharing revenue.

因此，我們花了很長時間才試圖找到合適的合作夥伴和合適的合同，以便能夠談判達成一項完全符合激勵措施的交易（在本例中是與 Claro）。這真正意味著我們不只是簡單地支付固定費用，而是擁有收入分成合約。我們無法準確透露收入分成是多少，但這是我們分享收入的情況。

We're using all of our infrastructure and our efficiency to serve consumers at a lower cost than they can. And so ultimately, they are able to serve customers through us, making revenue at a lower cost. So it's a win-win situation for both companies.

我們正在利用我們所有的基礎設施和效率，以比消費者更低的成本為消費者提供服務。因此最終，他們能夠透過我們為客戶提供服務，以更低的成本賺取收入。所以這對兩家公司來說都是雙贏的局面。

If we succeed in offering a product that tens of millions of consumers love, our partner is going to be making more money and is going to spending less money serving those customers. And obviously, there is a huge amount of synergies around the consumer base that we have. We are actually getting close to 60% of the Brazilian adult population, over 100 million Brazilian customers. So we have to spend very little money on customer acquisition and marketing.

如果我們成功地提供了數千萬消費者喜愛的產品，我們的合作夥伴將會賺更多的錢，並且會花更少的錢來服務這些客戶。顯然，我們擁有的消費者基礎存在著巨大的綜效。實際上，我們涵蓋了接近 60% 的巴西成年人口、超過 1 億的巴西客戶。所以我們在客戶獲取和行銷上只需要花很少的錢。

There is a huge amount of synergies on serving customers efficiently. We know how to do that for different subsegments. For us, specifically, there is a lot of value in creating a digital ecosystems. This is something we've been speaking about for several quarters now, where we think that there is a big opportunity to build. to go beyond financial services in new verticals that allows that allows us to give more products and services to our customers and increasing -- increase the value propositions consistently to them. So we can do that by adding something that all of our 100% of our customers use every single day.

在有效服務客戶方面存在巨大的綜效。我們知道如何針對不同的細分市場做到這一點。具體來說，對我們來說，創建數位生態系統具有很大的價值。這是我們幾個季度以來一直在談論的事情，我們認為這是一個巨大的建設機會。超越金融服務領域的新垂直領域，使我們能夠為客戶提供更多產品和服務，並不斷增加向他們提供的價值主張。因此，我們可以透過添加 100% 的客戶每天使用的東西來做到這一點。

And there is a lot of synergies in cross-selling the products and adding rewards on top of that. So that's something that we are launching. I think this first value, this first announcement for the first plan, you should see that as a beachhead, as an entry path into this space. But there is a ton more to come in terms of how we're going to be tying all of these products together and how we're going to expect increased loyalty and the value proposition to customers as we add NuCel but also travel. We've announced travel, marketplace and a number of other verticals that are here to come.

交叉銷售產品和增加獎勵可以產生許多協同效應。這就是我們正在推出的東西。我認為第一個價值，第一個計劃的第一個公告，你應該將其視為灘頭陣地，作為進入這個領域的入口路徑。但是，我們將如何將所有這些產品結合在一起，以及當我們添加 NuCel 和旅行時，我們將如何期望提高客戶忠誠度和價值主張，還有很多事情要做。我們已經宣布即將推出旅遊、市場和許多其他垂直領域。

In terms of financial benefit, I think it's early to tell. We are excited about this profit pool and also what this can bring to the financial services space and other segments. So I will withhold -- I won't get into a lot of details there, but I do think that the opportunity to go beyond financial services, once you start adding a number of different verticals, is pretty substantial and what's not only substantially in terms of revenues, but also in terms of diversifying the business model away from credit and having a much more robust, less cyclical type of revenue, much more fee revenue, much more subscription revenue. That adds a nice distribution and diversification to our overall business model.

就經濟利益而言，我認為現在說還為時過早。我們對這個利潤池以及它對金融服務領域和其他領域的影響感到興奮。因此，我不會透露太多細節，但我確實認為，一旦開始添加許多不同的垂直領域，超越金融服務的機會就非常巨大，而且不僅在本質上不僅在收入方面，而且在業務模式多元化方面，遠離信貸，並擁有更強勁、週期性更小的收入、更多的費用收入、更多的訂閱收入。這為我們的整體業務模式增添了良好的分佈和多元化。

So it's the first -- we're just kind of taking the first baby steps in that direction. But I think the logic is very compelling, and we're very excited about what we can do there.

所以這是第一個——我們只是朝著這個方向邁出了第一步。但我認為這個邏輯非常引人注目，我們對我們能在那裡做的事情感到非常興奮。

Thank you David. That was very clear.

謝謝大衛。這非常清楚。

Thank you, Jorge.

謝謝你，豪爾赫。

Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

馬裡奧·皮里，美國銀行。

Hey guys, thank you for taking my question. Let me focus on the current business rather than the future business. When we look at your risk-adjusted net interest margin, right, it declined, when I look on nominal terms. When I look at the margin itself, also declined a few basis points. And I get that part of this has to do with a change in mix, right? You're doing more secure lending.

嘿夥計們，謝謝你回答我的問題。讓我專注於當前的業務而不是未來的業務。當我們看你的風險調整後淨利差時，對吧，當我看名義條款時，它就下降了。當我查看利潤率本身時，也下降了幾個基點。我知道這部分與組合的變化有關，對吧？您正在做更安全的貸款。

But like I was wondering, as this continues to happen, right, I think that's part of the strategy, how does that impact your profitability in the short term? Because it seems to me like you're moving away from a very profitable product, which is credit cards, to a product that is more secure but less profitable, right, especially when we look at the payroll loan market in Brazil, right, given that you have regulated prices there? So I'm just trying to understand, how do you see the evolution of risk-adjusted margins as you continue to shift your loan mix? Thank you.

但就像我想知道的那樣，隨著這種情況繼續發生，對吧，我認為這是策略的一部分，這對您的短期獲利能力有何影響？因為在我看來，你正在從一種非常有利可圖的產品（信用卡）轉向一種更安全但利潤較低的產品，對吧，特別是當我們看看巴西的工資貸款市場時，對吧，考慮到你們在那裡監管價格嗎？所以我只是想了解，隨著您繼續改變貸款組合，您如何看待風險調整利潤率的演變？謝謝。

Hi, Mario, this is Lago. Thank you so much for your question. So look, when we look at our business portfolio, they are certainly composed by asset classes with a very different kind of risk returns, provided that none of those asset classes are expected to yield us returns on equity of less than 30%.

嗨，馬裡奧，我是拉戈。非常感謝你的提問。因此，當我們審視我們的業務投資組合時，它們肯定是由具有截然不同的風險回報的資產類別組成的，前提是這些資產類別中沒有一個預計會給我們帶來低於30% 的股本回報率。

And so yes, the first product that we had, credit card, has a phenomenal kind of set of unit economics, both in Brazil and Mexico and Colombia lending as well. And we are by no means moving away from those asset classes. We are actually adding additional asset classes to that portfolio without necessarily diluting the unit economics of the prior ones.

是的，我們的第一個產品信用卡具有驚人的單位經濟效益，在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的貸款中也是如此。我們絕不會放棄這些資產類別。實際上，我們正​​在為該投資組合添加額外的資產類別，而不必稀釋先前資產類別的單位經濟效益。

In my view, Mario, when you take a look at our balance sheet, we still have a loan-to-deposit ratio of about 30% to 35%, depending on how you cut it. So by and large, two-thirds of all of the deposits that we have are sitting idle in treasury bonds. So as we shift the allocations from treasury bonds into credit assets, both secured and unsecured, you should expect to see NIMs expanding going forward. You should expect to see risk-adjusted margins expanding going forward.

在我看來，馬裡奧，當你看一下我們的資產負債表時，我們的貸存比仍然約為 30% 至 35%，具體取決於你如何削減它。因此，總的來說，我們三分之二的存款都閒置在國債中。因此，當我們將配置從國債轉向有擔保和無擔保的信貸資產時，您應該會看到淨利差不斷擴大。您應該期望看到風險調整後的利潤率繼續擴大。

What has been kind of the rationale behind the contraction in NIMs in the third quarter of 2024, I think it is the composition of three things. Number one, we have seen increasing kind of funding costs in our business in Mexico and Colombia, given our strategy to aggressively pay higher deposit rates in those countries. And as such, it has now shrunk the NIMs on a consolidated basis. Going forward, we do expect to bring some of those deposit rates in Mexico and Colombia down as we have been doing sequentially quarter-over-quarter. So that's the first thing.

2024 年第三季淨利差收縮背後的原因是什麼，我認為是由三件事組成的。第一，考慮到我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞積極支付更高存款利率的策略，我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的業務中發現融資成本不斷增加。因此，它現在已經在合併的基礎上縮小了淨利差。展望未來，我們確實預計墨西哥和哥倫比亞的部分存款利率將會下降，就像我們逐季所做的那樣。這是第一件事。

The second thing within our credit portfolio in Brazil, you started to allude, yes, we are seeing the average yield go down, primarily because of mix, like secured lending gaining more weight, but also because of price elasticity, even within credit card, as we improve and optimize the price elasticity models we have been able to play around with lower rates in order to maximize the NPV and the lifetime economics of the customers.

您開始提到我們在巴西的信貸投資組合中的第二件事，是的，我們看到平均收益率下降，主要是因為混合因素，例如擔保貸款的權重增加，但也因為價格彈性，即使在信用卡內部，隨著我們改進和優化價格彈性模型，我們已經能夠採用較低的費率，以最大限度地提高客戶的淨現值和終身經濟效益。

So in a nutshell, we do not expect the movement into new asset classes to contract NIMs or risk-adjusted NIMs. On the contrary, it should expand as we increase loan-to-deposit ratios.

因此，簡而言之，我們預期新資產類別的發展不會導致淨利差或風險調整後的淨利差收縮。相反，隨著我們提高貸存比，它應該會擴大。

Okay. That's clear. Let me follow up, then. Like when we look at your credit cards, when I look at TPV, it contracted quarter-over-quarter, and you are at a point, right, where you have been gaining market share. So I wanted to understand then when we look at this purchase volume, why did it decline quarter-on-quarter?

好的。很清楚。那我就跟進一下吧。就像當我們看你的信用卡時，當我看冠捷時，它逐季收縮，而你正處於一個點，對的，你一直在獲得市場份額。那我想了解一下，當我們看這個採購量時，為什麼它會比去年同期下降？

And my question also has to do -- like when I look at the number of cards outstanding in Brazil, it seems like it declined by 100,000, right, from 38.1 million to 38 million this quarter, even though you added 3.4 million clients in Brazil. So what is this data telling me? Are you at the point where you already are at a certain level of market share that will be hard for you to gain market share from where we are right now?

我的問題也與此相關——就像當我查看巴西的未償還信用卡數量時，似乎下降了10 萬張，對吧，從本季度的3810 萬張減少到3800 萬張，儘管您在巴西增加了340 萬客戶。那麼這個數據告訴我什麼呢？您是否已經處於一定水平的市場份額，而您很難從我們現在的位置獲得市場份額？

Yeah. It's a good question, Mario. I think -- just let me try to address those 2 points that you've raised specifically, and then I'll try to provide a general overview on market share in credit cards. So first, I would draw your attention to slides 27 and 28 of our earnings presentation. And you will see that our purchase volume in Brazil, Mexico, and Colombia, but mostly in Brazil, have not contracted. They have actually expanded on an FX-neutral basis.

是的。這是個好問題，馬裡奧。我想——讓我嘗試解決您具體提出的這兩點，然後我將嘗試提供信用卡市場份額的總體概述。首先，我想提請您注意我們收益簡報的投影片 27 和 28。你會看到我們在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的採購量，但主要是在巴西，沒有收縮。他們實際上是在外匯中性的基礎上進行擴張的。

You should note that there has been a material FX devaluation in the third quarter of 2024. I think the devaluation in Brazil has been between 4% and 5%. The devaluation in Mexico has been between 10% and 11%. So if you do an FX-neutral adjustment, you will see that PV has actually gone up in the third quarter.

您應該注意到，2024 年第三季外匯大幅貶值。我認為巴西的貶值幅度在4%到5%之間。墨西哥的貨幣貶值幅度在10%至11%之間。因此，如果您進行外匯中性調整，您會發現第三季的現值實際上有所上升。

And then if you look at the PV for Brazil, which you highlighted, Mario, is over the past 12 months, PV in Brazil for Nubank has grown by about 24%, which is about twice the growth of the PV in the industry. That means that we have, of course, increased market share.

然後，如果你看巴西的 PV，Mario，你在過去 12 個月中強調了這一點，Nubank 在巴西的 PV 增長了約 24%，大約是該行業 PV 增長的兩倍。當然，這意味著我們的市佔率有所增加。

If you look at it in terms of receivables, the credit card receivables of Nubank Brazil increased by about 32%, which is almost 3 to 4x the increase in credit card receivables of the industry. So again, the market share continues to grow. So when you look at every single segment in which we play, the less affluent, the more affluent as well as the total market share, we continue to gain new market share at a fairly good pace.

如果從應收帳款來看，巴西Nubank的信用卡應收帳款增幅約為32%，幾乎是業界信用卡應收帳款增幅的3至4倍。因此，市場佔有率再次持續成長。因此，當你看到我們參與的每一個細分市場時，無論是較不富裕的群體、較富裕的群體還是總市場份額，你都會發現我們繼續以相當快的速度獲得新的市場份額。

Our estimates that in terms of credit card receivables in Brazil, our market share has grown by about 300 to 310 basis points over the prior 12-month period. So we are super encouraged by the ability to continue to gain market share in the country.

我們估計，就巴西的信用卡應收帳款而言，我們的市佔率較前 12 個月增長了約 300 至 310 個基點。因此，我們對繼續獲得該國市場份額的能力感到非常鼓舞。

Yes, indeed, the number of active credit cards has been slowing down. So the number of credit cards -- active credit cards denominated in terms of PV has been flat at around 38 million credit cards. In terms of revenues, it has gone up from BRL45.3 million to BRL45.8 million. But it certainly will grow in the coming kind of quarters and years in Brazil at a slower pace than it grew in the prior years.

是的，活躍信用卡的數量確實在放緩。因此，信用卡數量－以PV計價的活躍信用卡數量一直穩定在3,800萬張左右。就收入而言，從 4530 萬雷亞爾增加到 4580 萬雷亞爾。但巴西未來幾季和幾年的成長速度肯定會低於前幾年。

However, if you take a look on slides here on slide 28, you will note that notwithstanding the stabilization of the number of active credit cards, we do expect the purchase volume per active credit card to continue to go up quite strongly. And that's what we have seen, both from old cohorts as well as from new cohorts. On average, the purchase volume per active credit cards goes up by about 3x within 24 months. So I think when you combine the maturation of the cohorts and the increase of receivables, we do expect market share to continue to grow in Brazil, let alone the expansions that we're going to have in Mexico and Colombia.

然而，如果您查看幻燈片 28 上的幻燈片，您會注意到，儘管活躍信用卡數量穩定，但我們確實預計每張活躍信用卡的購買量將繼續強勁增長。這就是我們從老群體和新群體中看到的情況。平均而言，每張有效信用卡的購買量在 24 個月內增加了約 3 倍。因此，我認為，當你將群體的成熟和應收帳款的增加結合起來時，我們確實預計巴西的市場份額將繼續增長，更不用說我們將在墨西哥和哥倫比亞進行擴張了。

Okay, Lago, that's clear. And when I was talking about the purchase volume of credit cards decelerating, right, I was looking on in BRLand I saw a growth of 3% quarter-on-quarter and you were growing like 8% previous quarter. You're growing at a higher pace. But okay, yes, your answer is very clear. Thank you.

好吧，拉戈，很清楚了。當我談到信用卡購買量減速時，對吧，我在 BRLand 看到季度環比增長 3%，而上一季度增長了 8%。你正在以更快的速度成長。但好吧，是的，你的答案很明確。謝謝。

Thank you, Mario.

謝謝你，馬裡奧。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

蒂托·拉巴塔，高盛。

Hi, good evening everyone and thank you for the call and taking my question. My question, following up a little bit on the decline in NIM. But Lago, you have mentioned that you're intentionally slowing the pace of eligibility for PIX financing and trying to get some more data there.

大家好，晚上好，感謝您致電並回答我的問題。我的問題是對淨利差的下降進行一些跟進。但是 Lago，您提到您有意放慢 PIX 融資資格的步伐，並試圖在那裡獲取更多數據。

Just want to understand, are you concerned about asset quality? Is it just the strong pace at which you've grown over the last year? Just kind of what's giving you a little bit more caution there? And will that be maybe a short-term headwind for your ability to expand NIM, let's say, at least for the next few quarters as you get some more comfort there?

只是想了解一下，您關心資產品質嗎？僅僅是因為您去年的成長速度強勁嗎？只是是什麼讓你更加小心一點？這可能會成為你擴大淨利差的能力的短期阻力嗎？

Tito, thanks for the question. Look, so we are -- we continue to be super excited with the PIX and boleto financing products within the credit card family. The demand for this product is enormous, and the unit economics of this product is very strong.

蒂托，謝謝你的提問。看，我們是這樣的——我們繼續對信用卡家族中的 PIX 和 boleto 融資產品感到非常興奮。該產品的需求量龐大，且該產品的單位經濟性非常強。

Now we do often pursue optimizations of the risk return strategies of every single asset class. They are not kind of a straight line, so there are times in which we accelerate. There are times in which we decelerate. So over the past now one or two quarters, we have slowed down intentionally the pace of eligibility expansion in PIX financing to kind of watch how those cohorts will continue to perform. And if they continue to perform well as they have, most likely, we will resume growth over the course of the coming quarters.

現在，我們確實經常追求每種資產類別的風險回報策略的優化。它們不是直線，所以有時我們會加速。有時我們會減速。因此，在過去的一兩個季度中，我們有意放慢了 PIX 融資資格擴張的步伐，以觀察這些群體將如何繼續表現。如果他們繼續表現良好，我們很可能會在未來幾季恢復成長。

We do see kind of the PIX financing family of products as a strategic feature and product that we offer to our customers and something that actually leverage on many of the strengths of Nubank in Brazil. As you know, we have about one in every 4 PIX transactions in the country go through Nubank. So the flow of data is super strong and gives us and our customers the ability to develop and enjoy new financing products.

我們確實將 PIX 融資系列產品視為我們向客戶提供的策略功能和產品，並且實際上利用了巴西 Nubank 的許多優勢。如您所知，該國大約四分之一的 PIX 交易是透過 Nubank 進行的。因此，數據流非常強大，使我們和我們的客戶有能力開發和享受新的融資產品。

So now, we do expect to continue to grow this product in the coming quarters and years. We are just now taking a pause to see how the overall performance of the recent cohorts continue to perform.

因此，現在，我們確實預計在未來幾季和幾年內繼續發展該產品。我們現在只是暫停一下，看看最近的群體的整體表現如何繼續表現。

Okay. That's helpful, Lago. And then I guess just another follow-up on the margin because I mean you had strong growth in deposits again. I know you're overpaying a bit in Mexico to kind of grow that deposit base. Would you consider maybe reducing the remuneration further either in Brazil or Mexico to help sort of on the funding side of things, particularly with higher rates in Brazil?

好的。這很有幫助，拉戈。然後我想這只是保證金的另一個後續行動，因為我的意思是存款再次強勁增長。我知道你在墨西哥為了擴大存款基礎而付出了過高的代價。您是否會考慮進一步降低巴西或墨西哥的薪酬，以在資金方面提供幫助，特別是在巴西利率較高的情況下？

And then conversely, in Mexico, I saw that there was some October data where your loans jumped like 10% in October. So it seems like maybe you're getting more comfort to grow the loan book in Mexico. How do you think about the outlook for loan growth in Mexico from here?

相反，在墨西哥，我看到一些 10 月的數據顯示，10 月你的貸款激增了 10%。因此，增加墨西哥的貸款規模似乎會讓您感到更安心。您如何看待墨西哥貸款成長的前景？

Yeah. So just addressing some of your questions head on, in Brazil, we do not expect to lower the Cuenta yields or the depo rates. We believe we have a very good balance of value proposition for our consumers, and we are very pleased with the capital structure that we have in the country. So we do not foresee any material change in the short term.

是的。因此，只是直接回答你們的一些問題，在巴西，我們預計不會降低 Cuenta 收益率或 depo 利率。我們相信，我們為消費者提供了非常好的價值主張平衡，並且我們對該國的資本結構非常滿意。因此，我們預計短期內不會出現任何重大變化。

In Mexico and Colombia, we have been very positively surprised with the evolution of our deposits strategy in both of those countries, not only we have seen kind of deposits increasing by a substantially higher pace than we expected, but we have seen material second order impacts from the inflows of those deposits.

在墨西哥和哥倫比亞，我們對這兩個國家的存款策略的演變感到非常驚訝，我們不僅看到存款的成長速度大大高於我們的預期，而且我們還看到了重大的二階影響來自這些存款的流入。

What do I mean by that? I see the deposits has brought in many more customers, but many more customers who also cross -- to whom we were able to cross-sell other products, such as credit cards and now personal loans in Mexico and then soon in Colombia. And we have also seen a marginal improvement in the mix of those customers that have allowed us to expand eligibility and approval rates.

我這麼說是什麼意思？我看到存款帶來了更多的客戶，但也有更多的客戶交叉銷售——我們能夠向他們交叉銷售其他產品，例如信用卡，現在是墨西哥的個人貸款，很快就會在哥倫比亞。我們還看到這些客戶的組合略有改善，這使我們能夠擴大資格和批准率。

And secondly, as was the case in Brazil, the inflow of deposits also comes with an avalanche of additional credit underwriting data that is a super important raw material to feed our credit and customer segmentation model. So really pleased there.

其次，就像巴西的情況一樣，存款的流入還伴隨著大量額外的信貸承保數據，這些數據是為我們的信貸和客戶細分模型提供超級重要的原材料。那裡真的很高興。

And as, Tito, we improve the value proposition of their experiences with Nubank. We will consider progressively optimizing the cost of our liability and, yes, potentially continue to low deeper rates in Mexico and Colombia.

正如 Tito 所說，我們改善了他們在 Nubank 的體驗的價值主張。我們將考慮逐步優化我們的責任成本，是的，有可能繼續降低墨西哥和哥倫比亞的利率。

In Mexico, just to have an illustration, I think we launched the deposits in Mexico back in the first quarter of 2024. We launched that paying 15% per year. At that point in time, it was around 400 basis points above the interbank deposit rates. Now we are now at 12.5% per year, which is only 200 basis points above the interbank deposit rates.

在墨西哥，為了舉例說明，我想我們早在 2024 年第一季就在墨西哥推出了存款。我們推出了每年支付 15% 的費用。當時，該利率比銀行同業存款利率高出約400個基點。現在我們的年利率為 12.5%，只比銀行間存款利率高出 200 個基點。

And yeah, we may bring this down going forward. But I think the most important benefit that we will have in NIMs is actually going to be on the expansion of the asset side of the balance sheet. And we are super pleased with the prospects that we have to increase the loan book in Mexico. It's performing now fairly well, and we have resumed growth as you have seen in the recent numbers, including the ones that we have posted with the regulators, I believe, yesterday or today.

是的，我們可能會繼續解決這個問題。但我認為我們在淨利差中獲得的最重要的好處實際上是資產負債表資產方面的擴張。我們對增加墨西哥貸款的前景感到非常滿意。現在它表現相當不錯，正如您在最近的數據中看到的那樣，我們已經恢復了成長，包括我們昨天或今天向監管機構發布的數據。

Okay. Perfect. Great. So this seem like that could be a driver of growth going forward here.

好的。完美的。偉大的。因此，這似乎可能成為這裡未來成長的驅動力。

Geoff Elliott, Autonomous.

傑夫·艾利奧特，自治。

Hello. Thanks very much for taking the question. The credit card Stage 3 has increased from 9.1% to 9.8%. Can you give us a bit more detail on what's happening there? And specifically, on PIX credit, how has the performance of that portfolio been evolving? Thank you.

你好。非常感謝您提出問題。信用卡第三階段從9.1%增加到9.8%。您能為我們提供更多有關那裡發生的情況的詳細資訊嗎？具體來說，在 PIX 信用方面，該投資組合的表現如何演變？謝謝。

Hey, Jeff, this is Youssef. Thanks for the question. So Stage 3, the kind of shorthand for that I think about is it's very correlated to what's happening to 90-plus. It tends to evolve in a similar way and tends to behave like a stock metric. So what you're seeing is kind of consistent with the trend in 90-plus.

嘿，傑夫，這是優素福。謝謝你的提問。所以第三階段，我認為它與 90 歲以上的人所發生的事情非常相關。它往往以類似的方式發展，並且表現得像股票指標。所以你所看到的與 90 後的趨勢是一致的。

More of a flow metric on late-stage delinquencies, I would invite you to take a look on page 30 at both the NPL formation and the Stage 3 formation and both indicators if you take a look actually declined in the quarter 40 and 60 basis points respectively. So we see actually improvement from that standpoint on those two metrics.

更多關於後期拖欠的流量指標，我邀請您查看第 30 頁的不良貸款形成和第三階段形成以及這兩個指標，如果您看看本季度實際下降了 40 和 60 個基點分別。因此，從這個角度來看，我們實際上看到了這兩個指標的改進。

And with respect to your question on PIX financing, as Lago mentioned just a minute ago, we continue to be very pleased with both the consumer demand for that product and the economics of that product. The returns are phenomenal. And so the recent deceleration is by no means an indication of concern on either. It's more of kind of technical adjustments we make on a business-as-usual basis that we've done in the past in a number of products and customer segments.

關於您關於 PIX 融資的問題，正如 Lago 一分鐘前提到的那樣，我們仍然對該產品的消費者需求和該產品的經濟性感到非常滿意。回報是驚人的。因此，最近的經濟減速絕不顯示人們對這兩個方面感到擔憂。這更像是我們在一切照舊的基礎上進行的技術調整，我們過去在許多產品和客戶群中做過這樣的調整。

Got it. Thanks.

知道了。謝謝。

John Coffey, Barclays

約翰‧科菲，巴克萊銀行

Great. Thank you very much for taking my question. One theme that I've noticed in a lot of your answers is when you're talking about your NIM, I think you've said that the NIM will improve when your loan-to-deposit rate improves, which makes a lot of sense. I was wondering if you could just maybe broadly just say, what's holding you back on having that rate more?

偉大的。非常感謝您回答我的問題。我在您的許多答案中註意到的一個主題是，當您談論您的淨利差時，我認為您說過，當您的貸存利率提高時，淨息差將會改善，這很有意義。我想知道您是否可以籠統地說，是什麼阻礙您獲得更高的利率？

Is it that you have capital and you're not -- these assets and you're not able to convert those into loans just yet because you're still testing the market, perhaps in Mexico or Colombia? Or are there any other reasons that might be sort of holding back that ratio from rising more?

是不是你有資本，但你沒有——這些資產，但你還不能將這些資產轉換成貸款，因為你仍在測試市場，也許是在墨西哥或哥倫比亞？或者有其他原因可能會阻礙該比率進一步上升嗎？

John, thank you. Thanks for the question. So let me try to split the response into, I think, in between Brazil, on one hand, and Mexico and Colombia, on the other hand. So Brazil, we already have a fairly stable liability and deposit franchise. And we have been growing the asset side of the balance sheet at a relatively good pace.

約翰，謝謝你。謝謝你的提問。因此，我認為，讓我試著將回應分為一方面是巴西，另一方面是墨西哥和哥倫比亞。所以巴西，我們已經擁有相當穩定的負債和存款專營權。我們一直在以相對較好的速度成長資產負債表的資產部分。

Depending on the assets that you look, the overall portfolio has grown at about 47%, 50% year over year. The lending side per se, which is the one that consumes more funding, more than credit card in Brazil, it has, in fact, grown by about 90% to 100% year over year. So Brazil's assets is in the fast cruise control speed there, and we expect loan-to-deposits to continue to go up.

根據您查看的資產，整體投資組合年增約 47%、50%。貸款方面本身是消耗更多資金的方面，在巴西比信用卡還多，事實上，它同比增長了約 90% 至 100%。所以巴西的資產正處於快速巡航控制速度中，我們預期貸存比將持續上升。

In Mexico and Colombia, they are more recent markets. And therefore, we continue to develop our credit underwriting capabilities. When we entered those markets, we did see that differently from Brazil, our core product, which was credit card, was more funding intensive due to the credit card cycle. So the first thing that we wanted to do was to de-risk the funding part of the business. And therefore, we have been more aggressive on raising deposits from the local currency general public, mostly retail deposits.

在墨西哥和哥倫比亞，它們是較新的市場。因此，我們繼續發展我們的信用承銷能力。當我們進入這些市場時，我們確實發現與巴西不同的是，我們的核心產品信用卡由於信用卡週期的原因，資金更加密集。因此，我們想做的第一件事就是降低業務融資部分的風險。因此，我們更積極地從公眾籌集本幣存款，主要是零售存款。

Now that we have a very strong and healthy right side of the balance sheet, we are accelerating the left -- the growth of the left side of the balance sheet. And you have started to see a strong growth in the loan book of Mexico and Colombia. And I believe you will not only continue to see this in the next quarters, but most likely, it will even go up as we improve and sharpen our credit underwriting capabilities.

現在我們擁有非常強大且健康的資產負債表右側，我們正在加速左側資產負債表左側的成長。您已經開始看到墨西哥和哥倫比亞的貸款簿強勁成長。我相信，您不僅會在接下來的幾個季度繼續看到這種情況，而且很可能，隨著我們改進和增強我們的信用承銷能力，它甚至會上升。

But the the main bottlenecks that we have to continue to grow, the asset sides in Mexico and Colombia and to a certain extent, also in Brazil, certainly not capital. We have plenty of capital to deploy. Certainly not funding. We have now plenty of funding to deploy against those opportunities. It's really our credit underwriting appetite to be able to cherry-pick the most compelling risk-adjusted returns for our company.

但我們繼續成長的主要瓶頸是墨西哥和哥倫比亞的資產方面，在某種程度上，巴西也是如此，當然不是資本。我們有充足的資本可以部署。當然不是資金。我們現在有充足的資金來應對這些機會。能夠為我們公司挑選最引人注目的風險調整回報確實是我們的信貸核保胃口。

Thank you very much. I just have one quick follow-up. This might be more for Youssef. On the 15- to 90-day NPLs, I know those decreased 10 bps quarter-over-quarter. Can you help us decrypt a little bit more how that breaks out from seasonality versus creating more exposure to riskier loans? Is it straightforward? Or are there too many moving pieces to really break that out?

非常感謝。我只有一個快速跟進。這可能更適合尤瑟夫。就 15 至 90 天的不良貸款而言，我知道這些不良貸款較上月下降了 10 個基點。您能否幫助我們更多地解密這種情況是如何擺脫季節性與增加風險貸款風險的？簡單嗎？或者是否有太多的動人因素無法真正解決這個問題？

It's pretty straightforward, to be honest. The seasonality typically is in the range of 10 to 20 basis points, so what we see is largely along seasonal lines as opposed to indicative of any wholesale changes in the assets.

老實說，這非常簡單。季節性通常在 10 到 20 個基點的範圍內，因此我們看到的主要是季節性變化，而不是資產的任何大規模變化。

Okay. So it's normally 10 to 20 down from Q2 to Q3?

好的。那麼從第二季到第三季通常會下降 10 到 20 嗎？

That's right.

這是正確的。

But you're also having like more exposure to a riskier credit book. So I almost expect those would -- that would have maybe gone up or netted out to 0. It doesn't seem like that's happening.

但您也面臨更多風險較高的信用帳簿的風險。所以我幾乎預計這些可能會上升或淨值為零。看來這並沒有發生。

No, there are offsetting forces, as we've talked about before. So you have increased mix of secured loans within the lending book. You have continued expansions in credit card, and then you have some of the tactical adjustments we've executed through the last quarter. So those tend to kind offset each other. We've seen relative stability in the last quarter on that.

不，正如我們之前討論過的，存在抵消力量。因此，您在貸款簿中增加了擔保貸款的組合。信用卡業務持續擴張，然後我們在上個季度執行了一些戰術調整。所以這些往往會互相抵消。我們在上個季度看到了相對穩定的情況。

Perfect. Thank you very much.

完美的。非常感謝。

Neha Agarwala, HSBC.

尼哈·阿加瓦拉，匯豐銀行。

Hi, thank you for taking my question. Just a quick one on the provisioning level. When we go back to the 1Q numbers, there was a strong pickup in originations, which was the explanation for the strong pickup in the provisioning level, nominally speaking. When we look at this quarter, there was a very strong pickup in -- especially in personal loans, which grew 20% quarter on quarter, but the provisions grew only 6% quarter-on-quarter.

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。只是簡單介紹一下配置等級。當我們回到第一季的數據時，原始數量出現強勁回升，這就是名義上供應水準強勁回升的原因。當我們觀察本季時，特別是個人貸款出現了非常強勁的回升，其季度環比增長了 20%，但準備金環比僅增長了 6%。

So could you please explain what was different this quarter? And why did we not see a stronger pickup in provisioning, whereas the origination was quite strong? And also, the cost of risk sequentially remained largely stable. So there's probably some impact from shift in mix. But given the stronger growth in personal loans, I would expect cost of risk to go up. So if you could zoom in on that, that would be very helpful.

您能否解釋一下本季有何不同？為什麼我們沒有看到供應量的強勁回升，而最初的供應量卻相當強勁？此外，風險成本連續保持基本穩定。因此，混合的轉變可能會產生一些影響。但鑑於個人貸款成長強勁，我預計風險成本將會上升。所以如果你能放大這一點，那將會非常有幫助。

Yeah, Neha. This is Youssef. Thanks for the question. So again, I would point out to some of the offsetting forces that I just talked about. And in particular, when you look at lending, the fastest-growing element within that is secured lending, which carries very little risk and, hence, has lower coverage ratios. So that would explain in part what is going on. And even in unsecured lending, we've seen slightly better asset quality than expected. So you see a bit of an effect there, too.

是的，尼哈。這是優素福。謝謝你的提問。因此，我想再次指出我剛才談到的一些抵消力量。特別是，當你觀察貸款時，其中成長最快的因素是擔保貸款，它的風險很小，因此覆蓋率較低。這可以部分解釋正在發生的事情。即使在無擔保貸款中，我們也發現資產品質略優於預期。所以你也看到了一些影響。

Eduardo Rosman, BTG.

愛德華多·羅斯曼，BTG。

Hi, everyone. I wanted to get an update in Mexico. Maybe if, David, you could help us. I think you've been delivering better and faster KPIs, right, when compared to what you did in Brazil. But I wanted to know if you think that Mexico is ready for the same impact you had in Brazil, right?

大家好。我想了解墨西哥的最新情況。大衛，也許你能幫助我們。我認為與您在巴西所做的相比，您一直在交付更好更快的 KPI，對吧。但我想知道您是否認為墨西哥已經準備好應對與巴西相同的影響，對吧？

Do you think Mexico can be relevant within your results in the next three years? Or should we expect it to be more relevant further in the future? Thanks.

您認為墨西哥在未來三年內與您的結果相關嗎？或者我們應該期望它在未來更加相關嗎？謝謝。

Sure. Rosman, thank you for the question. So I mean, listen, Mexico is an opportunity that net-net, I think, could be another Brazil for us. But there are some differences to Brazil, some positives and some harder to crack. The positives are it's a higher income per capita country than Brazil. And you also have a lower bank penetration, lower credit card penetration. And that's a challenge as well as an opportunity.

當然。羅斯曼，謝謝你的提問。所以我的意思是，聽著，墨西哥是一個機會，我認為 Net-Net 可能會成為我們的另一個巴西。但與巴西相比，存在一些差異，有一些積極因素，但也有一些難以克服。積極的一面是它的人均收入高於巴西。而且銀行滲透率、信用卡滲透率也較低。這既是挑戰，也是機會。

With 12% credit card penetration, we could be -- if we crack the code of providing credit to the unbanked population, that would be a huge competitive advantage versus in Brazil, where we found a market that was much more saturated.

憑藉 12% 的信用卡普及率，如果我們破解了向無銀行帳戶人口提供信貸的密碼，與巴西相比，這將是一個巨大的競爭優勢，因為我們發現巴西的市場更加飽和。

Now, it's going to be -- it's probably going to take a little bit longer to really reach the levels of market share that we have in Brazil because cracking, giving credit to the under-banked or the unbanked, it's just harder.

現在，可能需要更長的時間才能真正達到我們在巴西的市場份額水平，因為向銀行服務不足或沒有銀行帳戶的人提供信貸會更加困難。

And we are here for the long run. We don't want to do anything unnatural or it -- learning how to do that requires a lot of discipline, a lot of methodology, a lot of data, a lot of foundational testing. And it's a quarter, we accelerate, a quarter we pause, another quarter, we accelerate or de-accelerate. So you'll see those zigzagging of growth rates consistently because it's us continuously being better every single day around how to underwrite that market opportunity.

從長遠來看，我們在這裡。我們不想做任何不自然的事情——學習如何做到這一點需要大量的紀律、大量的方法、大量的數據和大量的基礎測試。這是一個季度，我們加速，一個季度我們暫停，另一個季度，我們加速或減速。因此，您會看到成長率持續呈鋸齒狀，因為我們每天都在如何掌握市場機會方面不斷進步。

Now as you say, we've been -- so far, it's been faster than Brazil, and we're very excited with getting to -- in about 5 years, we are now top 10 in Mexico in both credit cards and deposits, which is a huge victory, I think, in terms of our market positioning, having started completely from 0.

現在正如你所說，到目前為止，我們的速度比巴西還要快，我們非常高興能在大約 5 年內達到這一目標，我們現在在信用卡和存款方面都躋身墨西哥前十名，我認為，就我們的市場定位而言，這是一個巨大的勝利，我們完全從0 開始。

And there's been a huge amount -- there's a lot of huge amount of work around connecting to cash-in, cash-out infrastructure, which we're doing, connecting to new data infrastructure. So we're doing all the blocking and tackling.

圍繞連接到現金存入、現金支出基礎設施，我們正在做大量的工作，連接到新的數據基礎設施。所以我們正在做所有的阻擋和鏟球。

To your question specifically, I think Mexico will move the needle or is on path to move the needle for us. There is an upside case here, where Mexico gets the PIX right and the digital payment systems right over the next five years. And that upside case is Mexico being as big as Brazil for us.

具體針對你的問題，我認為墨西哥將會為我們帶來改變，或正在為我們帶來改變。這裡有一個有利的情況，即墨西哥在未來五年內獲得正確的 PIX 和數位支付系統。有利的情況是墨西哥對我們來說和巴西一樣大。

There is a base case where it takes a longer time to get all these digital payment infrastructure in place. And it moves the needle, but it's not as big as Brazil. But net-net, I think it's definitely a business that will move the needle for us and it will be relevant for us.

有一個基本情況是需要更長的時間才能讓所有這些數位支付基礎設施到位。它確實起到了一定作用，但它的面積沒有巴西那麼大。但是net-net，我認為這絕對是一項能夠為我們帶來推動的業務，並且與我們息息相關。

No, great David. Thank you very much.

不，偉大的大衛。非常感謝。

Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

尤里‧費爾南德斯，摩根大通。

Thank you guys. Well, most of the strategic questions, they were already asked. So I'll go to the tax rate that was, I would say, a highlight this quarter. When we go to your financial statement, we see the other line, the other tax shield. And basically, it says that it's tax-exempt bonds and other things.

謝謝你們。嗯，大多數戰略問題，他們已經被問到了。因此，我將討論稅率，我想說，這是本季的一個亮點。當我們查看您的財務報表時，我們會看到另一行，另一條稅盾。基本上，它說的是免稅債券和其他東西。

So just trying to understand what happened with tax rate if this is just the seasonality as we saw in third Q 2023. I think back in -- back last year, it was Lei do Bem. So just trying to understand if this is a level that is sustainable for tax rate or we should see rates returning back to 33%, 34% or 35%? Thank you.

因此，我們只是想了解一下，如果這只是我們在 2023 年第三季看到的季節性因素，那麼稅率會發生什麼變化。我記得去年，是 Lei do Bem。因此，只是想了解這是否是一個可持續的稅率水平，或者我們應該看到稅率回到 33%、34% 或 35%？謝謝。

Yuri, thanks so much for the question. I think in this quarter, there were 2 things in our income statement that I believe are worth highlighting in the call. One is a non-recurring event, and the other one is a seasonal event.

尤里，非常感謝你的提問。我認為在本季度，我們的損益表中有兩件事值得在電話會議中強調。一種是非經常性事件，另一種是季節性事件。

So what is the non-recurring event? So in the third quarter of 2024, we decided to reposition Nucoin, which is our loyalty program, in a way that we would discontinue the crypto liquidity pool that was allocated to this program initially. This now shift in the program require us to absorb a onetime nonrecurring charge of about $48 million that was fully absorbed in marketing and in G&A in general.

那麼什麼是非重複事件呢？因此，在 2024 年第三季度，我們決定重新定位 Nucoin（我們的忠誠度計劃），我們將停止最初分配給該計劃的加密貨幣流動性池。現在該計劃的轉變要求我們承擔約 4800 萬美元的一次性非經常性費用，該費用完全用於行銷和一般管理費用。

So that is completely non-recurring. We should not expect this to have any additional impact to our performance. If it was not for this onetime event, our efficiency ratio would have been even below 30%. So that one is completely nonrecurring.

所以這是完全不重複的。我們不應期望這會對我們的業績產生任何額外影響。如果不是這次，我們的效率還不到30%。所以這個是完全不會重複出現的。

With respect to the second point, which I believe you've asked on corporate income tax or the effective tax rate, that is more of a seasonal thing than a nonrecurring thing. And you correctly pointed out, just like it happened in the third quarter of 2023, we have in the third quarter a concentration in the filings for Lei do Bem, which is an R&D tax incentive that exists in Brazil, that we also had in the third quarter of 2024. And that should be recurring and should continue with similar seasonalities in the coming quarters and years.

關於第二點，我相信您已經詢問了企業所得稅或有效稅率，這更多的是季節性因素，而不是非經常性因素。您正確地指出，就像 2023 年第三季發生的那樣，我們在第三季集中提交了 Lei do Bem 的申請，這是巴西存在的研發稅收激勵措施，我們在2024 年第三季。這種情況應該會反覆出現，並且在未來幾個季度和幾年中應該會繼續出現類似的季節性。

Henrique Navarro, Santander.

恩里克·納瓦羅，桑坦德銀行。

Hi. Thanks for the opportunity to make a question. I would like to do a follow-up on the question on the growth mismatch between provisions and loans. I understand the rationale. You're changing the credit mix, adding more secured personal loans.

你好。感謝您有機會提出問題。我想跟進撥備和貸款成長錯配的問題。我明白其中的道理。您正在改變信貸組合，增加更多有擔保的個人貸款。

But my question is, if we look forward, the macro environment has been deteriorating. We have a higher SELIC estimates, et cetera. And under the expected credit loss provisioning model, we need to consider the macro environment to do our calculations.

但我的問題是，如果我們展望未來，宏觀環境一直在惡化。我們有更高的 SELIC 估計等等。而在預期信用損失撥備模型下，我們需要考慮宏觀環境來進行計算。

So my question is, what is the rationale for this behavior between provisions and loans? I mean, is there a risk that eventually, you may need to reinforce provisions ahead? That's it. Thank you.

所以我的問題是，這種撥備和貸款之間的行為的理由是什麼？我的意思是，最終是否存在需要加強未來準備金的風險？就是這樣。謝謝。

Hi, Henrique. This is Youssef. Thanks for the question. So look, yes, we do take into account macro scenarios in our provision setting. They are one of many factors, as you know, that impact the provision model. But I would say the dominant effect is both the nature and the mix of assets and the performance of assets we put on book.

嗨，恩里克。這是優素福。謝謝你的提問。所以看，是的，我們確實在我們的供應設定中考慮了宏觀場景。如您所知，它們是影響供應模式的眾多因素之一。但我想說，主導影響既是資產的性質、組合，也是我們記入帳面的資產的表現。

And so I think what you see in the financial statements reflect our best estimate in terms of coverage ratio. And as I mentioned, when you look at loans specifically, probably the main driver this quarter has been the accelerated growth of secured, which tend to drive coverage down vis-a-vis unsecured.

因此，我認為您在財務報表中看到的反映了我們對覆蓋率的最佳估計。正如我所提到的，當你具體考慮貸款時，本季度的主要驅動力可能是有擔保貸款的加速增長，這往往會導致與無擔保貸款相比的覆蓋率下降。

Pedro Leduc, Itau.

佩德羅·勒杜克，伊塔烏。

Hi guys. Thank you so much for, for the call and taking my question. Sorry to go back to the NIM piece. First part of the question is easier, if you did have any of the credit card regulatory cap impact on the NII or gross interest accrual for credit cards? Other players mentioned it in this season. And also, if the renegotiated book took some part in the NII slowdown as well, okay?

嗨，大家好。非常感謝您致電並回答我的問題。抱歉，回到 NIM 的部分。問題的第一部分比較容易，信用卡監管上限是否對NII或信用卡應計總利息有影響？本季其他球員也提到這一點。而且，如果重新談判的書也對 NII 放緩起到了一定作用，好嗎？

And then the second piece to all this. In the call, you mentioned that you expect the NIM post cost of risk to improve going forward. On asset side, you mentioned funding, Mexico. But as I think about the main answer why it fell, now that the mix, this secured portfolio is usually more stickier.

然後是這一切的第二部分。在電話會議中，您提到您預計未來淨利差後的風險成本將會改善。在資產方面，您提到了資金，墨西哥。但當我思考為什麼它下跌的主要答案時，既然混合了，這個安全的投資組合通常更具黏性。

So I would expect with the compounding effect to do have a more prolonged effect on the NIM post cost of risk. So really trying to get a little more color on how it -- and the shape of this recovery that you're imagining. Thank you.

因此，我預期複合效應確實會對 NIM 後風險成本產生更長期的影響。因此，我真的想更多地了解它是如何發生的，以及你所想像的復甦的形狀。謝謝。

Yeah, Pedro. Let me share some thoughts on this, and then maybe Youssef can chime in as well. So with respect to the NIM in this quarter, one thing I would highlight, which adds a little bit of complexity to the calculation, is also how FX has behaved throughout the third quarter of 2024.

是的，佩德羅。讓我分享一些對此的想法，然後也許優素福也可以插話。因此，就本季的淨利差而言，我要強調的一件事是外匯在 2024 年第三季的表現，這增加了計算的複雜性。

If you take a look at the average FX, which is the FX that is used to translate the income statement, and the end-of-period FX, which is the FX that is used to translate balance sheet items, you will note that the average FX has depreciated and the end-of-period FX has appreciated.

如果您查看平均外匯（用於換算損益表的外匯）和期末外匯（用於換算資產負債表項目的外匯），您會注意到平均外匯貶值，期末外匯升值。

So you're actually translating now less dollars in the income statement divided by balance sheet items, which have kind of a higher amount of dollars. So you would see if you adjust the FX both ways, a much less pronounced deterioration in NIMs, as you say. So I think that is the first part to your question, Leduc.

因此，您實際上現在將損益表中較少的美元換算為資產負債表項目，而資產負債表項目的美元金額較高。因此，正如您所說，如果您雙向調整外匯，您會發現淨利差的惡化程度要小得多。所以我認為這是你問題的第一部分，勒杜克。

The second part, which is where we see is all else equal, if we continue to have the same credit cards unsecured and we just increase the secured lending in our book, and that increase in secured lending leads to an increase in loan-to-deposit ratio, we would be basically shifting money that is currently sitting at (inaudible) in treasury bonds and placing it with secured lending.

第二部分，即我們看到的其他條件都是相同的，如果我們繼續擁有相同的無擔保信用卡，而我們只是增加賬簿中的擔保貸款，而擔保貸款的增加會導致貸款對-的增加。比率，我們基本上將轉移目前（聽不清楚）國債中的資金，並將其用於擔保貸款。

So all else equal, it should actually lead to an expansion of NIM and an expansion of risk-adjusted net interest margins as well. The problem is that the all else equal never happens, so you do see continuous growth in deposits in Mexico and Colombia so and so forth. But we do not agree with the notion that the growth of our secured portfolio per se will lead to a dilution in NIMs or even in returns on equity. It should lead to increasing loan-to-deposits and an expansion in both of those metrics.

因此，在其他條件相同的情況下，它實際上應該會導致淨利差的擴大和風險調整後淨利差的擴大。問題是，其他條件都相同的情況永遠不會發生，所以你確實會看到墨西哥和哥倫比亞等國的存款持續成長。但我們不同意這樣的觀點，即我們的擔保投資組合本身的成長將導致淨利差甚至股本回報率的稀釋。它應該會導致貸存比增加以及這兩個指標的擴大。

William Tang at SIG.

SIG 的 William Tang。

Hey guys, thanks for taking my question. I just have one for you here. Can you talk about the competitive market you see around secured lending, particularly in Brazil? Nu has clearly done incredibly well on the unsecured front, but how do the operating dynamics change when you start to think about leaving your mark on the secured front? How sticky are customers when thinking about shifting away from existing providers to Nubank? Thank you very much.

嘿夥計們，謝謝你提出我的問題。我這裡只有一份給你。您能否談談您所看到的擔保貸款市場的競爭，尤其是在巴西？Nu 在不安全方面顯然做得非常好，但是當您開始考慮在安全方面留下自己的印記時，營運動態會發生怎樣的變化？在考慮從現有提供者轉向 Nubank 時，客戶的黏性有多大？非常感謝。

No. Thank you so much. This is a super important question for us, one that we debate and study at length. And the experience that we have had so far with the secured lending, which is a longer journey, seems to be quite encouraging. So within secured lending, there are basically three types of assets. You have the public payroll loans, you have FGTS, and you have investment-backed loans.

不。太感謝了。這對我們來說是一個非常重要的問題，我們對此進行了深入的辯論和研究。到目前為止，我們在擔保貸款方面的經驗似乎相當令人鼓舞，這是一個漫長的過程。因此，在擔保貸款中，基本上有三種類型的資產。你有公共薪資貸款、FGTS 和投資支援貸款。

The first two account for about 90% of the loans that we originate and 90% of the book. So that is the lion's share of our operations there. And in fact, the FGTS-backed loans has accounted for the majority of the originations and the majority of our book today.

前兩者約占我們所發放的貸款的 90% 和圖書的 90%。所以這是我們在那裡業務的最大份額。事實上，FGTS 支持的貸款佔了大部分貸款的來源，也佔了我們今天書中的大部分內容。

In FGTS loans, which is the asset class for which we believe we already have reached product parity, our origination is estimated to account for about 25% of the origination of the market. So very strong, and it does support the view that you can have a very successful direct-to-consumer, digital-only distribution channel. And we continue -- and we expect to continue to increase our FGTS market share in the coming quarters as we leverage on our low-cost base to offer the product and the best user experience, best user interface and the lowest price points.

在 FGTS 貸款中，我們認為我們已經達到產品平價的資產類別，我們的發放量估計佔市場發放量的 25% 左右。非常強大，它確實支持這樣一種觀點，即您可以擁有一個非常成功的直接面向消費者的純數位分銷管道。我們將繼續 - 我們預計在未來幾季繼續增加我們的 FGTS 市場份額，因為我們利用我們的低成本基礎來提供產品和最佳的用戶體驗、最佳的用戶介面和最低的價格點。

Now as we move into public payroll loans, we have been launching only two collateral agreements so far, which are the two largest ones, INSS and SIAPE. We have recently made fairly important improvements in those products. For INSS, we've launched refinancing in November '24. SIAPE, we are going to launch refinancing in December 2024. And then over the coming quarters, we're going to add nine collateral agreements to the offer.

現在，當我們進入公共薪資貸款領域時，到目前為止，我們只推出了兩項抵押協議，其中最大的兩項是 INSS 和 SIAPE。我們最近對這些產品進行了相當重要的改進。對於 INSS，我們已於 24 年 11 月啟動了再融資。SIAPE，我們將於 2024 年 12 月啟動再融資。在接下來的幾個季度中，我們將在報價中添加九項抵押協議。

So we expect that by December 2024, we will be launching the collateral agreements with the Armed Forces. And throughout 2025, many new collateral agreements with some of the largest states and municipalities in Brazil. So as we have seen with the success that we have had with FGTS, so do we expect to see kind of the ramp-up of public payroll loans there.

因此，我們預計到 2024 年 12 月，我們將與武裝部隊啟動附帶協議。到 2025 年，我們將與巴西一些最大的州和市政府達成許多新的附屬協議。正如我們所看到的 FGTS 所取得的成功一樣，我們預計公共薪資貸款也會增加。

And why do we think we are competitive out there? We think we are competitive because not only we have the best UX and UI, but the fact that we do direct to consumers, we have much lower customer acquisition costs, much lower cost to serve, which translates into much better prices to consumers in one of the industries in Brazil that offers the highest price elasticity points.

為什麼我們認為自己有競爭力？我們認為我們具有競爭力，因為我們不僅擁有最好的用戶體驗和用戶介面，而且事實上，我們直接面向消費者，我們的客戶獲取成本低得多，服務成本低得多，這意味著向消費者提供更好的價格巴西提供最高價格彈性點的產業。

Thank you, Lago. We have now surpassed 75 minutes of this session, so we are now concluding today's call. On behalf of Nu Holdings and of our Investor Relations team, I want to thank you very much for your time and participation in our earnings call tonight. We are excited with our developments as we continue strengthening our position in the markets we operate.

謝謝你，拉戈。本次會議現已超過 75 分鐘，因此我們現在結束今天的電話會議。我謹代表 Nu Holdings 和我們的投資者關係團隊，非常感謝您抽出時間參加我們今晚的財報電話會議。隨著我們繼續加強我們在所經營的市場中的地位，我們對我們的發展感到興奮。

Over the coming days, we will be following up with the questions received via our platform and with those that attempted but were not able to ask questions tonight. So please do not hesitate to reach out to our team if you have any further questions. Thank you, and have a very good night.

在接下來的幾天裡，我們將跟進透過我們的平台收到的問題以及今晚嘗試但未能提出問題的問題。因此，如果您有任何其他問題，請隨時聯繫我們的團隊。謝謝您，祝您有個美好的夜晚。

Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。