Nu Holdings Ltd (NU) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

(audio in progress) to discuss the results for the fourth quarter and full year 2024. A slide presentation accompanies today's webcast, which is available on Nu's Investor Relations website, www.investor.nu in English and www.investidores.nu in Portuguese. This conference is being recorded, and the replay can also be accessed on the company's IR website. This call is also available in Portuguese. (Operator Instructions) (spoken in Portuguese)

（音訊正在播放）討論 2024 年第四季和全年業績。今天的網路廣播附有幻燈片演示，可在 Nu 的投資者關係網站 www.investor.nu（英文版）和 www.investidores.nu（葡萄牙語版）上取得。此次會議正在錄製中，您也可以在該公司的 IR 網站上觀看重播。此通話還提供葡萄牙語版本。（操作員指令）（葡萄牙語）

(Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer at Nu Holdings. Mr. Friedemann, you may proceed.

（操作員指示）現在，我想將電話轉給 Nu Holdings 的投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。弗里德曼先生，您可以繼續。

Thank you, operator. And thank you, everyone, for joining our earnings call today. If you have not seen our earnings release already, a copy is posted in the Results Center section of our Investor Relations website. With me on today's call are David Velez, our Founder, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman; Youssef Lahrech, President and Chief Operating Officer; Guilherme Lago, Chief Financial Officer; and Jag Duggal, Chief Product Officer.

謝謝您，接線生。感謝大家參加我們今天的財報電話會議。如果您尚未看到我們的收益報告，您可以在我們的投資者關係網站的結果中心部分看到一份副本。今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有我們的創辦人、執行長兼董事長 David Velez；總裁兼營運長 Youssef Lahrech； Guilherme Lago，財務長；以及首席產品長 Jag Duggal。

Throughout this conference call, we will be presenting non-IFRS financial information, including adjusted net income. These are important financial measures for Nu Holdings, but not financial measures as defined by IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures from other companies. Reconciliations of our non-IFRS financial information to the IFRS financial information are available in our earnings press release. Unless noted otherwise, all growth rates are on a year-over-year FX neutral basis.

在整個電話會議期間，我們將提供非國際財務報告準則的財務信息，包括調整後的淨收入。這些是 Nu Holdings 的重要財務指標，但不是 IFRS 定義的財務指標，可能無法與其他公司的類似指標進行比較。我們的非國際財務報告準則 (IFRS) 財務資訊與國際財務報告準則 (IFRS) 財務資訊的對帳表可在我們的收益新聞稿中查閱。除非另有說明，所有成長率均為年比外匯中性成長率。

I would also like to remind everyone that today's discussion might include forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance, and therefore, you should not put undue reliance on them. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties and could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in our earnings release.

我還想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述並不能保證未來的表現，因此，您不應過度依賴它們。這些聲明受多種風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與我們的預期有重大差異。請參閱我們收益報告中的前瞻性陳述揭露。

Today, David will discuss the main highlights of our fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 results. After that, Lago and Youssef will take you through our financial and operating results in more detail. We will then open the call for questions.

今天，David 將討論我們 2024 年第四季和全年業績的主要亮點。之後，Lago 和 Youssef 將向您更詳細地了解我們的財務和營運表現。然後我們將開始提問。

I will now turn the call over to David. Please, David, go ahead. Thank you.

現在我將電話轉給大衛。大衛，請繼續。謝謝。

Thank you, Jorg. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. 2024 was another pivotable year in our strategy as we continue advancing our mission to find complexity and empower people. Our consistent execution and customer-centric approach drove significant growth across all three geographies. We now serve over 114 million customers with 20.4 million net addition this year alone.

謝謝你，喬格。大家晚上好，感謝大家今天的參與。 2024 年是我們策略中又一個關鍵的一年，我們將繼續推進我們的使命，即發現複雜性並賦予人們權力。我們始終如一的執行力和以客戶為中心的理念推動了三個地區的顯著成長。我們目前為超過 1.14 億客戶提供服務，光是今年就淨增加 2,040 萬客戶。

Our active customer base grew 22% year over year to nearly 95 million. In Brazil, we continued adding our 1 million customers per month, serving 58% of the population and further consolidating our position as the third-largest financial institution in the country in a number of customers. In Mexico, we achieved a significant milestone by surpassing 10 million customers, underscoring our strong growth momentum in the country.

我們的活躍客戶群年增22%，達到近9,500萬。在巴西，我們繼續以每月100萬客戶的速度新增客戶，服務該國58％的人口，並進一步鞏固了我們作為該國客戶數量第三大金融機構的地位。在墨西哥，我們的客戶數量突破 1000 萬，取得了重要的里程碑，彰顯了我們在該國強勁的成長勢頭。

Beyond customer growth, we strengthened our deposit franchise, particularly in Mexico and Colombia, a crucial step in reinforcing our long-term strategy, bolstering our liquidity position, and enabling prudent credit expansion. Total deposits grew 55% FX neutral to $28.9 billion while our interest-earning portfolio expanded 75% to $11.2 billion, also on an FX-neutral basis.

除了客戶成長之外，我們還加強了存款業務，特別是在墨西哥和哥倫比亞，這是強化我們的長期策略、增強流動性狀況和實現審慎信貸擴張的關鍵一步。總存款成長 55%（不計入匯率因素），至 289 億美元；我們的生息投資組合擴大 75%（不計入匯率因素），至 112 億美元。

We have maintained our high growth trajectory while significantly strengthening our financial results, demonstrating the efficiency and compounding power of our business model. Revenues grew 58% year over year on an FX-neutral basis to $11.5 billion in 2024 and driven by sustained ARPAC growth, up 23% year over year in FX-neutral terms to $10.7. Our efficiency ratio in [perforder] dropping below the 30% mark to end the year at 29.9% and making Nu one of the most efficient global financial services platforms and with room for additional optimization.

我們在保持高成長軌蹟的同時，顯著增強了財務業績，展現了我們商業模式的效率和複合能力。以外匯中性計算，2024 年營收年增 58% 至 115 億美元，受 ARPAC 持續成長的推動，以外匯中性計算，營收年增 23% 至 107 億美元。我們在[perforder]的效率比率降至30%以下，年底為29.9%，這使得Nu成為最高效的全球金融服務平台之一，並且還有進一步優化的空間。

Notably, net income almost doubled from 2023 to close to $2 billion with an annualized return on equity of 28%. These results place us among the most profitable financial institutions globally, even while maintaining a significant excess capital position at the holding level.

值得注意的是，淨收入從 2023 年起幾乎翻了一番，達到近 20 億美元，年化股本回報率為 28%。即使我們仍維持著控股水準的大量過剩資本狀況，這些業績仍使我們躋身全球最賺錢的金融機構之列。

These achievements underscore the power of our low-cost financial model or a commitment to customer engagement and our ability to deliver sustained profitability at scale. With a strong foundation in place, we remain focused on extending our market leadership launching new products and deepening financial inclusion across Latin America.

這些成就凸顯了我們的低成本財務模式的強大力量、對客戶參與的承諾以及我們實現大規模持續盈利的能力。憑藉著堅實的基礎，我們將繼續致力於擴大我們的市場領導地位，推出新產品，深化整個拉丁美洲的金融包容性。

Now let's move on to the next slide to take a closer look at how we advance on our strategic priorities in 2024. First, in Mexico, we reached an exciting milestone of 10 million customers, up 91% year over year, now serving 12% of the country's at all population. Deposits grew significantly, increasing 438% from 2023 to $4.5 billion, reflecting our position as a trusted financial institution. Our credit card customer base expanded by 70% to 5.6 million, and almost half of these customers did not have any credit card before ours, demonstrating our ability to help increase financial inclusion in the region.

現在讓我們來看看下一張投影片，仔細看看我們如何推進 2024 年的策略重點。首先，在墨西哥，我們的客戶數量達到了令人興奮的里程碑，達到 1,000 萬，年成長 91%，目前服務於該國 12% 的人口。存款大幅成長，較 2023 年成長 438%，達到 45 億美元，反映了我們作為值得信賴的金融機構的地位。我們的信用卡客戶群擴大了 70%，達到 560 萬，其中近一半的客戶在我們之前沒有任何信用卡，這證明了我們有能力幫助提高該地區的金融包容性。

Over the last three years, our first payment default rate has improved by approximately 50%, while credit approval rates in Mexico have increased by 10%, underscoring the significant enhancements in our risk models and their impact on both credit performance and accessibility. We also expanded cash in and cash out access to over 30,000 contact points, a critical component of our long-term strategy to digitize and democratize financial services.

在過去三年中，我們的首次付款違約率改善了約 50%，而墨西哥的信貸批准率提高了 10%，這凸顯了我們風險模型的顯著增強及其對信貸表現和可及性的影響。我們也將現金存入和提款管道擴展到超過 30,000 個接觸點，這是我們實現金融服務數位化和民主化的長期策略的重要組成部分。

Now moving to secured lending in Brazil. This portfolio grew an impressive 615% year over year to $1.4 billion, representing 23% of our total lending portfolio. We signed nine new agreements with collateral counterparties in the public sector expanding our total addressable market for payroll loans to 70% of the segment.

現在轉向巴西的擔保貸款。該投資組合年增615%，達到14億美元，占我們總貸款投資組合的23%。我們與公共部門的抵押交易對手簽署了九項新協議，將我們的薪資貸款總目標市場擴大到該領域的 70%。

As a result, 12 million of our customers are now eligible for payroll loans, along with additional $80 million for FGTS loans. We also enhanced our portability solution and features. And as of December 2024, 16% of INSS originations came from customers who brought their loans to Nu Bank and refinanced them under better conditions. At the same time, we captured over 30% market share in FGTS originations, underscoring our strategies, success and product market fit as well as the power of our low-cost distribution model.

因此，我們現在有 1,200 萬客戶有資格獲得薪資貸款，另外還有 8,000 萬美元的 FGTS 貸款。我們還增強了我們的可移植性解決方案和功能。截至 2024 年 12 月，16% 的 INSS 貸款來自將貸款帶到 Nu Bank 並在更優惠條件下進行再融資的客戶。同時，我們在 FGTS 發起中佔據了超過 30% 的市場份額，凸顯了我們的策略、成功和產品市場契合度以及低成本分銷模式的力量。

Building on our success in Brazil, we made significant strides with our high-income strategy, expanding our reach with close to 700,000 Ultravioleta customers, 132% year-over-year increase. Credit card performance was also remarkable with quarterly purchase volume from Ultravioleta credit cards increasing 106% year over year to $1.8 billion in Q4 and accounting for 10% of our Brazilian credit card purchase volume. Our NPS of 84 continues to set us apart as the most loved brand among high-income customers, alongside a 16% increase in brand consideration.

基於我們在巴西取得成功的基礎上，我們的高收入策略取得了重大進展，我們的覆蓋範圍擴大到近 70 萬名 Ultravioleta 客戶，年成長 132%。信用卡表現同樣出色，Ultravioleta 信用卡的季度購買量年增 106%，在第四季度達到 18 億美元，占我們巴西信用卡購買量的 10%。我們的 NPS 為 84，這繼續使我們成為高收入客戶中最喜愛的品牌，同時品牌考慮度也增加了 16%。

Finally, our Money platform is becoming a bigger reality. Nu Marketplace have over 1 million customers shopping on our platform throughout the year. We also launched Nu Travel, enabling customers to plan their trip seamlessly and securely within the app with a guarantee of the best price bundled with a multicurrency account for even greater convenience. And in an exciting development we introduced NuCel or MVNO service in partner with Claro, further diversifying our offerings, strengthening Nu's ecosystem and expanding our addressable market.

最後，我們的 Money 平台正成為更大的現實。Nu Marketplace 全年有超過 100 萬客戶在我們的平台上購物。我們還推出了 Nu Travel，讓客戶能夠在應用程式內無縫、安全地規劃行程，並保證以最優惠的價格使用多幣種帳戶，從而獲得更大的便利。令人興奮的是，我們與 Claro 合作推出了 NuCel 或 MVNO 服務，進一步豐富了我們的產品線，加強了 Nu 的生態系統並擴大了我們的潛在市場。

As we continue making progress in our three geos, we remain very excited about the exciting opportunities we have ahead by expanding Nu's platform, increasing the market share of our core products and further monetizing our existing customer base. Additionally, capturing growth in new verticals with our Money platform strategy is gaining traction, significantly broadening our total addressable market.

隨著我們在三個地區繼續取得進展，我們仍然對未來令人興奮的機會感到非常興奮，透過擴展 Nu 的平台，增加我們核心產品的市場份額，並進一步將現有客戶群貨幣化。此外，我們利用貨幣平台策略抓住新垂直領域的成長機會，勢頭強勁，大大拓寬了我們的整體潛在市場。

The strategic expansion of our ecosystem has continued with the launch of NuCel in Brazil's massive telecom services market and the build-out new marketplace. What's particularly exciting is that these are entirely new and significant avenues of growth for us, along with new travel and new pay.

隨著 NuCel 在巴西龐大的電信服務市場推出以及新市場的建立，我們生態系統的策略擴張仍在繼續。尤其令人興奮的是，這些對我們來說是全新且重要的成長途徑，還有新的旅行和新的薪資。

Reflecting on 2024, we're very pleased with the progress we've made across our strategic priorities, and we see several early indicators confirming that we remain on the right path. Nevertheless, our perspective is that it's still just day one. We remain focused, ambitious and excited about what's ahead. And with that, I'd like to pass the floor to our CFO, Guilherme Lago, who will walk us through the details of our financial results.

回顧 2024 年，我們對策略重點所取得的進展感到非常高興，我們看到幾個早期指標證實我們仍在正確的道路上。儘管如此，我們的觀點是這仍然只是第一天。我們對未來依然專注、雄心勃勃、充滿期待。接下來，我想將發言權交給我們的財務長 Guilherme Lago，他將向我們介紹我們的財務表現的詳細資訊。

Over to you, Lago.

交給你了，拉戈。

Thank you, David. Good evening, everyone. As David noted, 2024 was an exceptional year marked by strong and consistent revenue growth, deeper customer engagement combined with solid operating margins and profitability, all of which further validate the power and efficiency of our business model. Let's take a closer look at our fourth-quarter results and how we have continued advancing across the key pillars of our strategy.

謝謝你，大衛。大家晚上好。正如 David 所說，2024 年是一個非凡的一年，其特點是收入強勁而持續的成長、更深入的客戶參與度、穩健的營業利潤率和盈利能力，所有這些都進一步驗證了我們商業模式的力量和效率。讓我們仔細看看我們的第四季度業績以及我們如何繼續推進我們策略的關鍵支柱。

Beginning with customer acquisition, we saw another quarter of strong growth adding 4.5 million new customers to our platform and ended the year with 114.2 million customers, a 22% increase over 2023. As our customer base continues to expand, our focus shifts increasingly towards engagement and retention. Our active customer base also grew by 22% year over year with our monthly activity rate, reaching 83.1%.

從客戶獲取開始，我們又經歷了一個強勁增長的季度，為我們的平台增加了 450 萬新客戶，到年底客戶總數達到 1.142 億，比 2023 年增長了 22%。隨著我們的客戶群不斷擴大，我們的重點日益轉向參與和保留。我們的活躍客戶群也較去年同期成長了22％，每月活躍率達到83.1％。

Please note that activity dynamics in Mexico and Colombia differ from Brazil's as we refine our product offering in these two important markets. While customer growth in Mexico and Colombia outpaced Brazil this quarter, initially lower activity levels in these two countries temporarily impacted our consolidated activity rate.

請注意，由於我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞這兩個重要市場完善了我們的產品供應，因此這兩個市場的活動動態與巴西不同。雖然本季墨西哥和哥倫比亞的客戶成長速度超過巴西，但這兩個國家最初較低的活動水準暫時影響了我們的綜合活動率。

Turning to revenue expansion. As shown on the first chart on slide 10, Nu continues strengthening primary banking relationships, now representing approximately 61% of our active customer base. This strong performance underscore our ability to capture a larger share of wallet through effective cross-selling and up-selling, further reinforcing our position as our customers' primary financial partner. We are also very pleased to see that recent cohorts are reaching this level of primary relationship and an accelerated pace.

轉向擴大收入。如第 10 頁的第一張圖表所示，Nu 繼續加強主要銀行關係，目前約占我們活躍客戶群的 61%。這一強勁表現凸顯了我們透過有效的交叉銷售和追加銷售獲取更大份額的能力，進一步鞏固了我們作為客戶主要金融合作夥伴的地位。我們也很高興地看到，最近的群體正在達到這種初級關係的水平，並且步伐正在加快。

The chart in the center shows that the average number of products per the customer has now reached 4.1, also demonstrating the success of our cross-selling strategy even as we continue welcoming a growing number of new customers. By effectively introducing our products to these new customers, we deepen engagement and further strengthen our role as their main banking partner.

中間的圖表顯示，每位客戶的平均產品數量現已達到 4.1 個，這也證明了我們的交叉銷售策略取得了成功，儘管我們繼續迎來越來越多的新客戶。透過有效地向這些新客戶介紹我們的產品，我們加深了參與度並進一步加強了我們作為他們主要銀行合作夥伴的角色。

The last chart illustrates the combined impact of these two powerful dynamics. Best-in-class customer engagement coupled with our growing cross-sell capabilities enables increasingly positive results. While our average monthly ARPAC stands at approximately $10.7, our more mature cohorts are already reaching $25, demonstrating the strong long-term monetization potential of our model. Please note that the ARPAC dynamics shown in this slide also reflects the accelerated growth of our customer bases in Mexico and more recently, also in Colombia, while our deposit strategy in this market may initially attract more customers who engage primarily with the Quanta product, one that generates relatively lower ARPAC levels.

最後一張圖表說明了這兩種強大動力的綜合影響。一流的客戶參與度加上我們不斷增強的交叉銷售能力使我們取得了越來越積極的成果。雖然我們的平均每月 ARPAC 約為 10.7 美元，但我們更成熟的群體已經達到 25 美元，這證明了我們模型強大的長期貨幣化潛力。請注意，本投影片中顯示的 ARPAC 動態也反映了我們在墨西哥以及最近在哥倫比亞的客戶群的加速成長，而我們在這個市場的存款策略最初可能會吸引更多主要使用 Quanta 產品的客戶，而該產品產生的 ARPAC 水平相對較低。

We are highly confident in the long-term value of this approach. As we have seen in Brazil for nearly up back now, this strategy lays the foundation for deeper engagement and greater monetization down the road.

我們對這種方法的長期價值非常有信心。正如我們最近在巴西所看到的那樣，這項策略為未來更深入的參與和更大的貨幣化奠定了基礎。

As depicted in the left-hand chart, our monthly ARPAC experienced a slight decline of $0.03. However, on an FX-neutral basis, it expanded 5% sequentially and 23% compared to the prior year despite rapid customer growth in the new geographies, as I mentioned before. Again, we remain confident in our ability to continue increasing ARPAC to its full potential as our customer base matures with time.

如左圖所示，我們的每月 ARPAC 小幅下降了 0.03 美元。然而，正如我之前提到的，儘管新地區的客戶數量迅速增長，但以外匯中性為基礎，其環比增長了 5%，比上年增長了 23%。我們再次表示，隨著客戶群逐漸成熟，我們仍有信心繼續充分發揮 ARPAC 的潛力。

The chart on the right shows revenues hit another record high this quarter of nearly $3 billion, up by 50% year over year. This remarkable growth was driven by the ongoing expansion of our active customer base and the strong ARPAC levels we continue to achieve. Our total credit portfolio also experienced robust growth in the fourth quarter of 2024, increasing 45% year over year and 13% quarter over quarter, both on an FX-neutral basis, reaching a total of $20.7 billion. This strong performance was driven by growth across both lending and cards.

右側圖表顯示本季營收再創歷史新高，達到近 30 億美元，年增 50%。這一顯著成長得益於我們活躍客戶群的不斷擴大以及我們繼續實現的強勁 ARPAC 水平。我們的總信貸組合在 2024 年第四季也經歷了強勁成長，以外匯中性為基礎，較去年同期成長 45%，季增 13%，總額達到 207 億美元。強勁的表現得益於貸款和信用卡業務的成長。

During the quarter, our credit card portfolio maintained its upward trajectory, supported by further expansion in the shares of wallets across all customer segments. This portfolio expanded 28% year over year and 9% sequentially on an FX-neutral basis to reach $14.6 billion.

在本季度，我們的信用卡組合保持上升趨勢，這得益於所有客戶群的錢包份額進一步擴大。以外匯中性運算，該投資組合較上年同期成長 28%，較上一季成長 9%，達到 146 億美元。

Meanwhile, our lending portfolio more than doubled during the year to $6.1 billion, a 22% sequential gain also on an FX-neutral basis. Lending continue outpacing credit cards, reaching 29% of our total portfolio. Consistent with previous quarters, our lending cohorts demonstrate strong credit performance enabling us to further scale originations.

同時，我們的貸款組合在本年度增長了一倍多，達到 61 億美元，剔除匯率因素，環比增長 22%。貸款成長速度持續超過信用卡成長速度，達到我們總貸款的 29%。與前幾季一致，我們的貸款群體表現出強勁的信貸表現，使我們能夠進一步擴大貸款發放規模。

This growth is driven not just by increasing customer eligibility, but also by gradually expanding ticket sizes and loan durations which remain a fraction of industry averages. This approach underscores our significant growth potential, but also reflects our ability to navigate challenging environments with agility and resilience as we have demonstrated during previous economic downturns in Latin America.

這種成長不僅得益於客戶資格的提高，還得益於逐步擴大的票據規模和貸款期限，而這些仍只是行業平均值的一小部分。這種方法不僅凸顯了我們巨大的成長潛力，還反映了我們以靈活性和彈性應對充滿挑戰的環境的能力，正如我們在拉丁美洲之前的經濟衰退期間所展示的那樣。

Now let's look at the breakdown of our credit card portfolio. Interest-earning installments continue growing quarter over quarter. However, this growth was overshadowed by strong seasonal expansion in non-interest earnings balance, bringing the share of interest-earning installments down to 27% of the overall credit card portfolio. Please note that this outcome aligns with the expectations that we shared last quarter, following the intentional deceleration of Pix financing for specific risk bets. Although demand for Pix financing products and their profitability remain very strong, we have deliberately tempered the pace of eligibility expansions during the second half of 2024 to carefully monitor the performance in the coming quarters and to assess what we call the second order effects of this product on customer engagement and the long-term value of customer relationships.

現在讓我們來看看我們的信用卡組合的細目。計息分期付款繼續逐季成長。然而，非利息收入餘額的強勁季節性擴張掩蓋了這一增長，導致計息分期付款的份額在整個信用卡組合中下降至 27%。請注意，在 Pix 有意減少針對特定風險投資的融資後，這一結果與我們上個季度的預期一致。儘管對 Pix 融資產品及其盈利能力的需求仍然非常強勁，但我們在 2024 年下半年有意減緩了資格擴展的速度，以仔細監控未來幾個季度的表現，並評估我們所說的該產品對客戶參與度和客戶關係的長期價值的二階效應。

Now at the beginning of 2025, after a more extensive testing and adjustments, we began refining our Pix financing offer for different risk bands, taking into account customers' potential exposure to this product to mitigate any undesirable effects on asset quality or engagement across our platform. Given this approach and especially in a more challenging macroeconomic environment, we do not anticipate a significant expansion of Pix financing penetration at least in the short term.

現在，在 2025 年初，經過更廣泛的測試和調整，我們開始針對不同風險等級完善我們的 Pix 融資方案，同時考慮到客戶對該產品的潛在風險，以減輕對我們平台資產品質或參與度的任何不良影響。鑑於這種方法，特別是在更具挑戰性的宏觀經濟環境中，我們預計至少在短期內 Pix 融資滲透率不會大幅擴大。

Let's move to our lending business. Originations surged 84% year over year to BRL18.4 billion in the quarter. Unsecured lending remained the primary growth engine, originating BRL15.6 billion and demonstrating our success in fostering financial inclusion for both individuals and SMEs in Brazil.

讓我們轉到貸款業務。本季貸款發放量年增 84%，達到 184 億巴西雷亞爾。無抵押貸款仍然是主要的成長引擎，發放貸款達156億雷亞爾，證明了我們在促進巴西個人和中小企業金融包容性方面的成功。

Now our secured lending originations reached BRL2.8 billion in the fourth quarter of 2024, representing 15% of our total lending originations. Notably, these originations are 100% in-house generated exclusively through our platform and do not include portfolios acquired from third parties.

現在，我們的擔保貸款發放量在 2024 年第四季達到了 28 億巴西雷亞爾，占我們總貸款發放量的 15%。值得注意的是，這些資金 100% 是透過我們的平台內部產生的，不包括從第三方獲得的投資組合。

Equally exciting is the strong performance of FGTS-backed loans, which expanded to over 60% of our total secured lending originations. Nu's market shares of new originations in this product has already surpassed 30%, reflecting the strong market feet of our fully digital distribution channel.

同樣令人興奮的是 FGTS 支持的貸款表現強勁，占我們總擔保貸款發放量的 60% 以上。Nu 在該產品新產品中的市佔率已經超過 30%，反映了我們全數位分銷通路的強大市場地位。

This year, we also made significant progress towards achieving product parity, and we are pleased with the early performance indicators of new features for public payroll loans in Brazil, such as portability, top-ups, and refinancings. Additionally, we successfully integrated and launched operations with Brazil's armed forces, a very key milestone in expanding eligibility.

今年，我們在實現產品平價方面也取得了重大進展，我們對巴西公共工資貸款新功能（如可轉移性、充值和再融資）的早期績效指標感到滿意。此外，我們成功地與巴西武裝部隊整合並開展了行動，這是擴大資格的關鍵里程碑。

To further grow our total addressable market, or TAM, we have signed new collateral agreements now totaling 11, including partnerships with several major Brazilian states and municipalities. This agreement will allow us to reach over 70% of the TAM for public payroll loans in Brazil in the coming months, expanding access for newly eligible customers and supporting continued growth in originations.

為了進一步擴大我們的總目標市場（TAM），我們簽署了新的附屬協議，目前總數已達 11 項，其中包括與巴西幾個主要州和市政府建立的合作夥伴關係。根據該協議，我們在未來幾個月內將能夠獲得巴西公共薪資貸款 TAM 的 70% 以上，從而擴大新合格客戶的貸款管道，並支持貸款發放量的持續成長。

On the funding side, our total deposits for the quarter increased to $28.9 billion, up 5% year over year on an FX-neutral basis. This growth was supported by robust expansion across our three geographies. In Brazil, deposits reached $23.1 billion, an 11% sequential increase on an FX-neutral basis.

在融資方面，本季我們的總存款增加至 289 億美元，以外匯中性計算年增 5%。這一增長得益於我們三個地區的強勁擴張。巴西的存款達到 231 億美元，以外匯中性基礎計算，較上季成長 11%。

Additionally, our deposit rate strategy in Mexico and Colombia continue to yield excellent results. It has significantly increased deposits in both countries furthering our mission to empower our customers to take control of their financial lives, while also adding financial resilience and strong liquidity buffers to our operations in these countries. Even after reducing the spread over the interbank rate, our operations in Mexico accumulated $4.5 billion in deposits, a fourfold increase from 2023 and highlighting our ability to enhance cross-selling opportunities while still improving unit economics.

此外，我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的存款利率策略繼續取得優異的效果。它顯著增加了這兩個國家的存款，進一步推進了我們的使命，讓我們的客戶能夠掌控自己的財務生活，同時也為我們在這些國家的業務增加了財務彈性和強大的流動性緩衝。即使在縮小銀行間利率利差之後，我們在墨西哥的業務仍積累了 45 億美元的存款，比 2023 年增長了四倍，這凸顯了我們在提高單位經濟效益的同時增強交叉銷售機會的能力。

Lastly, our performance in Colombia exceeded our expectations. Deposits reached $1.3 billion, just two quarters after launching Nu Colombia’s checking account and placing us among the country's top five financial institutions based on demand deposits for individuals.

最後，我們在哥倫比亞的表現超出了我們的預期。在推出 Nu Colombia 支票帳戶僅兩個季度後，存款額就達到了 13 億美元，並使我們躋身該國個人活期存款規模最大的五家金融機構之列。

Net interest income rose significantly, increasing 57% year over year and 9% sequentially on an FX-neutral basis, reaching a record high of $1.7 billion. Conversely, our net interest margin contracted 70 basis points to 17.7% this quarter.

淨利息收入大幅成長，以匯率中性基礎計算，年增 57%，比上一季成長 9%，達到創紀錄的 17 億美元。相反，本季我們的淨利差收縮70個基點至17.7％。

This was primarily driven by the very same factors that we highlighted last quarter. First, lower credit yields, reflecting ongoing shift in both product mix due to the increasing share of secured loans and customer mix as we continue testing past elasticity in line with our improving profile. Second, funding costs also increased as a result of stronger deposit growth in Mexico and Colombia and consistent with our deposit rate strategy in these new geographies, which are still remunerating deposits at a premium to the benchmark rates. Additionally, FX movements once again negatively impacted our NIM and as the FX rate used to translate the numerator depreciated more than the FX rate applied to the average interest-earning assets of the denominator.

這主要是由我們上個季度強調的相同因素造成的。首先，信貸收益率下降，反映了由於擔保貸款和客戶結構份額的增加導致產品結構持續變化，因為我們繼續根據不斷改善的狀況測試過去的彈性。其次，由於墨西哥和哥倫比亞存款成長強勁，融資成本也隨之增加，這與我們在這些新地區的存款利率策略一致，這些新地區的存款利率仍高於基準利率。此外，外匯變動再次對我們的淨利差產生負面影響，因為用於轉換分子的外匯匯率比用於分母的平均生息資產的外匯匯率貶值更多。

Now looking ahead to the mid- and long-term profiles, we remain confident that the balance sheet optimization will be the primary driver of future NIMs, especially as deposits normalizations in Mexico and Colombia take place. Regardless of interest rate trends, we see significant opportunity to expand originations by shifting funds from cash to credit with our loan-to-deposit ratio still at significant low levels, we believe there is a lot of room to improve efficiency and further strengthen our profitability levels.

現在展望中長期前景，我們仍然相信，資產負債表優化將成為未來淨利息收益率的主要驅動力，尤其是在墨西哥和哥倫比亞存款正常化的情況下。無論利率趨勢如何，我們都看到了透過將資金從現金轉向信貸來擴大資金發放的巨大機會，我們的貸款與存款比率仍然處於相當低的水平，我們相信有很大的空間來提高效率並進一步提高我們的盈利水平。

Now let's turn to the last pillar of our strategy, maintaining a low cost to serve. We continue to believe that our platform is one of the most cost competitive in our markets and represents a significant competitive advantage. Accordingly, we remain committed to keeping our cost at or below $1 per active customer for the foreseeable future.

現在讓我們談談我們策略的最後一個支柱：保持較低的服務成本。我們始終相信，我們的平台是市場上最具成本競爭力的平台之一，並且具有顯著的競爭優勢。因此，我們仍致力於在可預見的未來將每位活躍客戶的成本保持在 1 美元或以下。

Once again, we achieved this goal with a cost to serve per active customer of $0.80 of the dollar. On an FX-neutral basis, this represents an 11% year-over-year increase largely due to seasonal spikes in data and processing usages. Simultaneously, our ARPAC grew by 23% over the same period, highlighting the strong operating leverage of our business model.

我們再次實現了這一目標，每位活躍客戶的服務成本為 0.80 美元。以外匯中性為基礎，這代表著同比增長 11%，這主要是由於數據和處理使用量的季節性高峰。同時，我們的 ARPAC 在同一時期成長了 23%，突顯了我們商業模式強大的營運槓桿。

Our gross profit reached $1.4 billion this quarter, an 8% sequential increase and a 44% increase from 2023 both on an FX-neutral basis. Gross profit margins stood at 45.6%, returning closer to 2023 levels despite higher funding costs we expected in our Nu geos. This performance also reflects the strengthening of our business model, which continues to deliver significant profitability even as we expand and invest in new markets.

本季我們的毛利達到 14 億美元，以外匯中性計算，較上季成長 8%，較 2023 年成長 44%。毛利率為 45.6%，儘管我們預期 Nu geos 的融資成本會更高，但毛利率仍將回升至更接近 2023 年的水準。這一業績也反映了我們商業模式的加強，即使我們擴張並投資於新市場，該模式仍繼續帶來可觀的獲利能力。

Over the past quarter, we continue demonstrating our ability to drive operating leverage as our business scales. Our efficiency ratio improved significantly closing the quarter at 29.9%, and 150 basis points improvement from the previous quarter and over 610 basis points better than last year. This progress underscores the strength of our low-cost operating model, which enables us to sustain strong growth and drive product innovation while maintaining efficiency. With ongoing investments in technology and automation, we remain confident in our ability to further optimize our platform as we continue to scale.

在過去的一個季度中，隨著業務規模的擴大，我們繼續展現提高經營槓桿的能力。我們的效率比率在本季末大幅提高至 29.9%，比上一季提高了 150 個基點，比去年同期提高了 610 個基點以上。這項進展凸顯了我們低成本營運模式的優勢，使我們能夠在保持效率的同時保持強勁成長並推動產品創新。透過對技術和自動化的持續投資，我們對自己在不斷擴大規模的同時進一步優化平台的能力充滿信心。

Net income in the fourth quarter reached $553 million, up 7% sequentially and 85% year-over-year on an FX-neutral basis, while our net income margins expanded 300 basis points to 18%. Additionally, adjusted net income for the quarter increased by an impressive 87% and from 2023 levels to $610 million. Our strong bottom-line results further demonstrate the effectiveness of our strategy and the resilience of our business model.

第四季淨收入達 5.53 億美元，以匯率中性計算，比上一季成長 7%，比去年同期成長 85%，而我們的淨收入利潤率擴大 300 個基點，至 18%。此外，本季調整後的淨收入大幅成長了 87%，從 2023 年的水準增至 6.1 億美元。我們強勁的獲利業績進一步證明了我們策略的有效性和商業模式的彈性。

While we are pleased with our fourth-quarter performance, our focus remains on maximizing the long-term value of both our customer relationships and our company. This approach entails making deliberate short-term investments to unlock future growth opportunities, enhance customer engagement, and reinforce our leadership positions in the markets where we serve.

雖然我們對第四季度的業績感到滿意，但我們的重點仍然是最大限度地提高客戶關係和公司的長期價值。這種方法需要進行深思熟慮的短期投資，以釋放未來的成長機會，增強客戶參與度，並鞏固我們在服務市場的領導地位。

Now I will hand the call over to Youssef, our President and Chief Operating Officer, to discuss asset quality and the overall health of our credit portfolio.

現在，我將把電話交給我們的總裁兼營運長優素福，討論資產品質和我們的信貸組合的整體健康狀況。

Thanks, Lago. Hi, everyone. Starting as usual with NPL trends. Our leading indicator, the 15 to 90 ratio declined sequentially by 30 basis points to 4.1% in the quarter. Beyond the normal seasonal decrease we see in early delinquencies fourth quarter. This improvement was driven by mix shifts one, towards lower-risk customers in credit card; and two, towards lower-risk products given the growing mix of secured lending within our portfolio.

謝謝，拉戈。大家好。像往常一樣從不良貸款趨勢開始。我們的領先指標，15比90的比例在本季環比下降了30個基點，至4.1%。除了正常的季節性下降之外，我們還發現第四季的早期違約情況。這種改善主要得益於組合轉變，即面向信用卡風險較低的客戶；二是鑑於我們投資組合中擔保貸款的比例不斷增加，我們更傾向於低風險產品。

90-plus NPLs increased by 20 basis points to 7.0% and as a result of past trends in 15 to 90, which have been decreasing for 3 quarters in a row now. Those decreases in 15 to 90 are now showing up in the 90-plus ratio which, as we've mentioned in past calls, behaves as a lagged stock indicator of long-dated delinquencies.

90以上的不良貸款增加了20個基點，達到7.0%，而15到90的不良貸款比例則延續了先前的趨勢，目前已連續3個季度下降。15 至 90 之間的下降現在出現在 90 以上的比例中，正如我們在過去的電話會議中所提到的，該比例表現為長期拖欠的滯後股票指標。

This next slide highlights asset quality trends for both 15 to 90 and 90-plus NPLs, but this time on the basis of interest-earning balances rather than total receivables in the denominator. As you can see, the trends have remained stable to declining in recent years, reflecting the strength of our credit underwriting and portfolio capabilities. This demonstrates that we are being rewarded for the additional risk we've taken, reinforcing our strategic focus on maximizing the lifetime value of customer relationships rather than solely optimizing delinquency metrics over the short term.

下一張投影片重點介紹了 15 至 90 和 90 以上的不良貸款的資產品質趨勢，但這次是以生息餘額而不是分母中的應收帳款總額為基礎的。正如您所看到的，近年來趨勢保持穩定或下降，反映了我們的信用承保和投資組合能力的強大。這表明我們承擔的額外風險得到了回報，強化了我們的策略重點，即最大化客戶關係的終身價值，而不是僅僅在短期內優化拖欠指標。

Let's now turn to our renegotiated portfolio for an update on key trends. Renegotiations have remained relatively stable over the past year, with the majority of their volume occurring before 15 days overdue as a result of our low-friction, proactive approach to this customer experience. This helps customers reorganize their finances early, lowering the risk of delinquency while minimizing the impact on NPLs. And as shown on the right-hand chart, we maintained a robust provision coverage level of more than 200% over 90-plus balances of our renegotiated portfolio, underscoring our prudent risk management and focus on resilience across our credit operations.

現在讓我們轉向重新協商的投資組合，以了解主要趨勢的最新情況。過去一年來，重新談判一直保持相對穩定，由於我們採取了低摩擦、積極主動的方式來應對客戶體驗，大多數談判都發生在逾期 15 天之前。這有助於客戶儘早重組財務狀況，降低拖欠風險，同時最大限度地減少不良貸款的影響。如右圖所示，我們對重新協商的投資組合中 90 多個餘額保持了超過 200% 的強勁撥備覆蓋率，凸顯了我們審慎的風險管理和對信貸業務彈性的關注。

In line with the growth of our credit portfolio, credit loss allowance expenses increased by 12% sequentially on an FX-neutral basis, reaching $804 million this quarter. In turn, risk-adjusted NIM compressed by 60 basis points in the quarter, driven by the 70-basis-point decline in NIM explained by Lago earlier, partially offset by a 10-basis-point improvement in cost of risk.

隨著我們信貸組合的成長，信貸損失準備費用按外匯中性基礎較上季成長 12%，本季達到 8.04 億美元。反過來，風險調整後的淨利息收益率 (NIM) 在本季度壓縮了 60 個基點，原因是 Lago 之前解釋的淨利息收益率 (NIM) 下降了 70 個基點，但風險成本提高 10 個基點，部分抵消了這一下降。

To conclude this section, we are sharing an analysis conducted with one of our data providers, which compares the performance of our credit card portfolio to that of the Brazilian market. The six charts on this slide show 90-plus NPL time series segmented by risk band, where the purple (technical difficulty) and the gray line, the rest of the industry. As you can see across every segment, (technical difficulty) consistently outperforms the industry, resulting in lower delinquency rates within a risk band.

在本節的最後，我們分享了與我們的數據提供者進行的一項分析，該分析將我們的信用卡組合的表現與巴西市場的表現進行了比較。這張投影片上的六張圖表展示了按風險帶細分的 90 多個不良貸款時間序列，其中紫色線（技術難度）和灰線代表行業的其餘部分。正如您在各個部分所看到的，（技術難度）始終優於行業，從而降低了風險範圍內的違約率。

This reflects the strength of our credit underwriting capabilities, which are based on our precise risk assessment of each customer and the sloping of credit limits to make them more appropriate to each individual customer, alongside other factors, such as achieving a higher share of principality, meaning that more customers use Nu as their primary financial institution, which further enhances usage and repayment behavior and strengthens overall portfolio performance.

這反映了我們信用承保能力的強大，這種能力基於我們對每個客戶的精確風險評估和信用額度的傾斜，使其更適合每個客戶，以及其他因素，例如實現更高的委託份額，這意味著更多客戶使用 Nu 作為他們的主要金融機構，這進一步提高了使用和還款行為，並增強了整體投資組合的業績。

With that, let me now turn the call back to David. David, go ahead, please.

說完這些，我現在把電話轉回給大衛。大衛，請說。

Thanks, Youssef. As we look ahead, we remain in the early stages of leading a profound transformation in financial services, both in Latin America and globally. Although we have maintained a remarkable growth trajectory since founding Nu, today, we only capture a fraction of financial services revenue worldwide, which reinforces our belief in the vast opportunity still ahead of us. Our strategy continues to prioritize responsible and ambitious growth over short-term earnings gains.

謝謝，優素福。展望未來，我們仍處於引領拉丁美洲乃至全球金融服務深刻轉型的早期階段。儘管自創立 Nu 以來，我們一直保持著卓越的成長軌跡，但時至今日，我們僅佔據全球金融服務收入的一小部分，這更加堅定了我們對未來仍有巨大機會的信心。我們的策略繼續優先考慮負責任且雄心勃勃的成長，而不是短期獲利成長。

And we see 2025 as another pivotal year of investment during which we will deepen our presence in Brazil, Mexico and Colombia, expand our product portfolio, and lay the groundwork for our long-term ambitions. With this in mind, I'd like to outline our 2025 priorities to what we call our three act story.

我們將 2025 年視為另一個投資關鍵年，在此期間，我們將深化在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的業務，擴大我們的產品組合，並為我們的長期目標奠定基礎。考慮到這一點，我想概述我們 2025 年的優先事項，即所謂的三幕故事。

Starting with Act I, building the largest and most loved retail banking franchise in Latin America. This is our focus today and where the majority of our resources, time, and focus remain allocated. While we have achieved significant scale, our market share still represents less than 4% in revenue terms, only a fraction of its full potential. In this growth phase, we will continue nurturing customer love, scaling our credit operations, and increasing principality in Brazil, Mexico and Colombia, all while delivering a seamless, fast, and globally reliable app experience.

從第一幕開始，打造拉丁美洲最大、最受歡迎的零售銀行特許經營權。這是我們今天的重點，也是我們大部分資源、時間和精力的分配之處。雖然我們已經取得了相當大的規模，但以收入計算，我們的市佔率仍然不到4％，只是其全部潛力的一小部分。在這個成長階段，我們將繼續培養客戶喜愛，擴大我們的信貸業務，並增加在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的公國，同時提供無縫、快速和全球可靠的應用體驗。

Moving to Act II, expand beyond financial services. We embarked on this journey a few years ago with our entry into the marketplace, travel and more recently, telecom verticals. With a large and highly engaged customer base, one of the most loved and trusted brands in Brazil, and significant data and cross-sell capabilities, we believe we have earned the right to go beyond traditional financial services. Our goal is to create an ecosystem that broadens our addressable market and empowers customers to optimize their spending. Building up on the engagement and needs of our customers, we believe this strategy will enable the launch of new verticals in the future.

進入第二幕，拓展金融服務以外的範圍。幾年前，我們踏上了這條旅程，進入了市場、旅遊業以及最近的電信垂直領域。憑藉龐大且高度參與的客戶群、巴西最受喜愛和最值得信賴的品牌之一以及強大的數據和交叉銷售能力，我們相信我們已經獲得了超越傳統金融服務的權利。我們的目標是創建一個生態系統，拓寬我們的潛在市場，並幫助客戶優化他們的支出。我們相信，基於客戶的參與和需求，這項策略將推動未來新垂直產業的推出。

And finally, Act III, a global AI-driven digital banking model. This is our long-term vision. We endeavor to evolve our regional digital banking platform into a global model, leveraging artificial intelligence to provide hundreds of millions of customers with access to financial products and services that have historically been reserved for a select few. In 2025, we will take critical steps to turn this vision into reality by building the necessary foundations to support our products and services at a global scale.

最後，第三幕，全球人工智慧驅動的數位銀行模式。這是我們的長期願景。我們致力於將我們的區域數位銀行平台發展成為全球典範，利用人工智慧為數億客戶提供過去僅供少數人享用的金融產品和服務。2025年，我們將採取關鍵步驟，建立必要的基礎來支持我們在全球範圍內的產品和服務，從而將這一願景變為現實。

As our three-act story unfolds, our unwavering focus remains on execution, customer-centric innovation, and sustainable growth. We have built a technology platform with the potential to truly redefine financial services across Latin America and beyond. And we're more than excited than ever about what lies ahead as we develop our platform to thrive in this new asset class.

隨著我們三幕故事的展開，我們始終堅定不移地專注於執行、以客戶為中心的創新和永續成長。我們已經建立了一個技術平台，有可能真正重新定義拉丁美洲及其他地區的金融服務。隨著我們不斷開發我們的平台以在這個新的資產類別中蓬勃發展，我們對未來感到比以往任何時候都更加興奮。

Thank you for your continued support, and we look forward to another year of progress and positive impact. With that, we're now ready to address your questions.

感謝您一直以來的支持，我們期待新的一年會進步並產生正面影響。現在我們已經準備好解答您的問題了。

We will now start the Q&A session for investors and analysts. (Operator Instructions)

我們現在開始投資人和分析師的問答環節。（操作員指令）

I would like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer.

我想將電話轉給投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。

Jorge Kuri, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的豪爾赫·庫裡 (Jorge Kuri)。

Hi, everyone. Congrats on the numbers. Thanks on the opportunity to ask questions. I wanted to ask about a comment that Lago made earlier regarding Pix. Can you just clarify what not expanding Pix in the short term means? Is this not expanding it as a percentage of the portfolio, or is it actually not expanded in absolute balances so that it will shrink, I guess, as a percentage of your total credit card portfolio? Thank you.

大家好。恭喜你取得這些數字。感謝您給我提問的機會。我想詢問一下 Lago 之前對 Pix 所作的評論。你能解釋一下短期內不擴大 Pix 意味著什麼嗎？這是否不是在擴大其在投資組合中的百分比，或者它實際上並沒有在絕對餘額中擴大，因此我猜，它在你的信用卡總投資組合中的百分比會縮小？謝謝。

Hi, Jorge. This is Lago. Thanks for your question. What I meant is that we should not grow Pix financing as a percentage of the overall portfolio, not in absolute terms. So yes, overall, Pix financing should continue to expand, but more in line with the overall expansion of our credit card portfolio in Brazil in the very short term.

你好，豪爾赫。這是拉戈。感謝您的提問。我的意思是，我們不應該將 Pix 融資作為整體投資組合的百分比來成長，絕對值不應該。所以是的，總體而言，Pix 融資應該會繼續擴大，但在短期內更符合我們在巴西的信用卡組合的整體擴張。

So as we mentioned in the prior call, we basically reduced the eligibility growth of Pix financing for the lowest kind of credit bands of Pix financing primarily to address what we saw some deteriorations in second order impacts related primarily to NPS, churn, and engagement. And here, it's important to highlight that the overall profitability and resilience of the big financing portfolio continues to be remarkably positive, but we wanted to improve the way that the customer has been presented in the customer journey, so as to minimize or even eliminate any potential negative second order impact.

因此，正如我們在先前的電話會議中提到的那樣，我們基本上降低了 Pix 融資中最低類型信用等級的資格增長，主要是為了解決我們看到的與 NPS、客戶流失和參與度相關的二階影響的一些惡化。這裡需要強調的是，大型融資組合的整體獲利能力和彈性仍然非常積極，但我們希望改善客戶在客戶旅程中的呈現方式，以盡量減少甚至消除任何潛在的負面二階影響。

We have been working with our teams over the course of the past months in such improvements. We now have about 12 tests in the market to improve the journey of the customers. We are seeing some encouraging results. And I'm encouraged to believe that we will be able to resume growth in percentage terms over the coming quarters, but I don't want to create any expectations that this resumption of growth will happen necessarily in the next one or two quarters.

在過去的幾個月裡，我們一直在與我們的團隊合作進行此類改進。目前，我們在市場上進行了大約 12 項測試，以改善客戶的旅程。我們看到了一些令人鼓舞的成果。我很高興地相信，我們將能夠在未來幾季恢復百分比成長，但我並不期望這種恢復成長必然會在未來一兩個季度發生。

And Jorge, let me add one point here related to this, because I think it's a good opportunity to understand even go back to culture. This is a great example of a product that is very profitable, and we've shown profitability. And that if we were optimizing for short-term profitability, we will continue growing significantly.

豪爾赫，讓我在這裡補充一點與此相關的內容，因為我認為這是了解甚至回顧文化的好機會。這是一個很好的例子，說明該產品非常賺錢，而且我們已經展示了盈利能力。如果我們優化短期獲利能力，我們將繼續大幅成長。

But here, we have a choice to make, which is prioritizing short-term earnings over improving in some ways, the user experience. And as we've always said, we are optimizing for the long run. We're optimizing for long-term consumer love. And we're just not happy necessarily with the second order effects on NPS.

但在這裡，我們必須做出選擇，那就是優先考慮短期收益，而不是在某些方面改善使用者體驗。正如我們一直所說，我們正在進行長遠優化。我們正在優化以贏得消費者的長期喜愛。我們只是不一定對 NPS 的二階效應感到滿意。

So we'd rather take it slower, continue improving the user experience, the user interface, the long-term NPS of the consumer and accelerate the growth once we are very comfortable with that. And it's -- I just think it's a good example of what improving and optimizing long-term NPS means even though it might cost us a bit on the short-term earnings per se.

因此，我們寧願放慢腳步，繼續改善用戶體驗、用戶介面和消費者的長期 NPS，並在我們對此感到非常滿意時加速成長。而且——我只是認為，這是改善和優化長期 NPS 意義的一個很好的例子，儘管它本身可能會讓我們在短期收益上損失一點。

That's very clear. If I may add a follow-on because I'm guessing Pix has had an impact on your NIM and risk-adjusted NIM. Is it possible for you guys to help us understand the different moving parts on risk-adjusted NIM, for example. I mean, Lago, you talked about the funding cost increase in Mexico and Colombia -- the temporary increase in funding cost in Mexico and Colombia because you're growing the business had a negative impact on your NIM, taking on more risk type clients and then the FX portion.

這非常清楚。如果我可以添加後續內容，因為我猜 Pix 對您的 NIM 和風險調整後的 NIM 產生了影響。例如，你們能否幫助我們理解風險調整後 NIM 的不同變動部分。我的意思是，拉戈，你談到了墨西哥和哥倫比亞的融資成本增加——由於你們的業務增長，墨西哥和哥倫比亞的融資成本暫時增加，這對你們的淨利息收入產生了負面影響，承擔了更多風險型客戶，然後是外匯部分。

Can you sort of like walk us through the bridge of what each of these items has had the impact on, say, your risk-adjusted NIM, which is now 9.5% and it was 11% two quarters ago. So that 150 basis point more or less, how does it break out between the different components?

您能否大致介紹一下這些項目對您風險調整後的淨利息收益率（NIM）的影響？那麼，150 個基點的差異或多或少在不同的組成部分之間是如何體現的呢？

No, great question, Jorge. So in the fourth quarter of 2024, our NIM drop by about 70 basis points, and you can probably see this in -- let me get here the right numbers, but you can probably see this in one of the slides that we have presented in the earnings.

不，豪爾赫，這個問題問得很好。因此，在 2024 年第四季度，我們的 NIM 下降了約 70 個基點，您可能可以在其中看到這一點 - 讓我給出正確的數字，但您可能可以在我們在收益中展示的一張幻燈片中看到這一點。

Out of those 70 bps drop that we saw, I would say that the most relevant factors were, number one, the FX, right? So the FX, we use different FX rates when we translate the local currency into dollars, the denominator and the numerator. So the numerator is usually employing kind of average FX. The denominator is typically translated employing end of period FX. And the use of those different FX rates explains about 44%, 45% of the 70-basis-points contraction.

在我們看到的 70 個基點的下降中，我想說最相關的因素首先是外匯，對嗎？因此，當我們將當地貨幣兌換成美元時，我們使用不同的外匯匯率，分母和分子。因此分子通常會採用一種平均 FX。分母通常採用期末外匯進行轉換。使用這些不同的外匯匯率可以解釋 70 個基點收縮的約 44% 到 45%。

The remaining 55% of the contraction is largely equally explained by two things. Number one, the drop in out in the overall credit portfolio in Brazil as we grow secure lending more than we grow unsecured lending in terms of loan balance. And two, as a result of the growing deposits in Mexico and Colombia, which are still paying kind of interest that are higher than the interbank deposit rates.

其餘 55% 的收縮主要由兩件事來解釋。第一，由於從貸款餘額來看，擔保貸款的成長速度超過無擔保貸款的成長速度，巴西整體信貸組合出現下降。二是由於墨西哥和哥倫比亞的存款不斷增長，其支付的利息仍然高於銀行間存款利率。

So those are the three things, Jorge, that I believe justify the contraction of the NIM. Now if we move to risk-adjusted net interest margins, you do have the same kind of 70 basis points to which I alluded before. And then you have a positive 10 basis points on cost of risk performing is slightly better than expected.

所以豪爾赫，我認為這三件事足以證明 NIM 的收縮是合理的。現在，如果我們轉向風險調整後的淨利差，你會看到我之前提到的 70 個基點。然後，風險成本表現為正 10 個基點，略優於預期。

Going forward, how do we see this? And so certainly, there are a lot of moving parts with respect to product mix, with respect to Brazil versus our international geos, but we continue to believe that the most relevant outlook for NIM and risk-adjusted NIMs is the optimization of the balance sheet. We continue to have a loan-to-deposit ratio that is below 40% as our loan book grows, and we shift part of our liquidity from treasury bonds to credit portfolio, would you expect to see NIMs expanding in the medium term.

展望未來，我們該如何看待這一點？因此，當然，在產品結構方面，在巴西與我們的國際地域方面，存在著許多變動因素，但我們仍然相信，NIM 和風險調整後 NIM 最相關的前景是資產負債表的優化。隨著我們的貸款規模不斷增長，並且我們將部分流動性從國債轉移到信貸組合，我們的貸存比仍然低於 40％，您是否預計中期淨利差會擴大？

Eduardo Rosman, BTG.

愛德華多·羅斯曼，BTG。

Hi, everyone. I have a question here regarding one of your slides; I think it's slide 26. I think Youssef, you show how Nu bank has been performing, right, better than peers in credit cards underwriting, right? So I think that the low and grow strategy, the principality kind of explains part of that.

大家好。我對您的一張投影片有一個問題；我認為是第 26 張投影片。我認為 Youssef，您展示了 Nu 銀行在信用卡核保方面的表現如何，比同行更好，對嗎？所以我認為低成長策略、公國主義可以部分解釋這一點。

But what about unsecured personal loans, which is where you've been kind of accelerating at the margin, right? Do you believe you can achieve the same level of outperformance as you did in credit cards? Is that a different product? How we should think about it -- should we think about them combined? So if you could help us understand, it would be helpful. Thanks.

但是無擔保個人貸款呢？您是否相信您可以獲得與信用卡相同的優異表現水準？那是不同的產品嗎？我們應該如何思考這個問題──我們應該把它們結合起來思考嗎？因此如果您能幫助我們理解，那將會很有幫助。謝謝。

This is Youssef. Thanks for the question. You're right. So even though the analysis we presented here on page 26 applies to credit cards, I expect the same dynamics to be playing out in unsecured loans as well. It's just, in credit card, it's a little bit cleaner as an analysis to do because you can identify those loans with a little bit more precision than unsecured loans. Typically, unsecured loans tend to be packaged with other types of partially secured or other types of collateral that would show up in various data sources that are hard to kind of parse out.

這是優素福。謝謝你的提問。你說得對。因此，儘管我們在第 26 頁上提出的分析適用於信用卡，但我預計同樣的動態也會在無擔保貸款中發揮作用。只是，在信用卡中，分析起來更乾淨一些，因為與無擔保貸款相比，你可以更精確地識別這些貸款。通常，無擔保貸款往往會與其他類型的部分擔保或其他類型的抵押品打包在一起，這些抵押品會出現在各種難以解析的資料來源中。

But I would say the ability to do low and grow in unsecured lending would show up in the form of very small tickets in the beginning for new customers or customers that don't have a proven track record of repayment. Then over time, we get repeat usage. When we get repeat usage and we have more performance data, we can actually increase the amount of loan exposure that we give out to a customer to be able to borrow. And likewise, the more data we have, the more precise our risk assessment can be. So like all those dynamics are applicable to unsecured lending as well, and we believe that, that credit underwriting expands to that product class equally.

但我想說，無擔保貸款的低額度和成長能力將以初期小額貸款的形式體現出來，適用於新客戶或沒有良好還款記錄的客戶。隨著時間的推移，我們會重複使用。當我們獲得重複使用並且擁有更多的性能數據時，我們實際上可以增加向客戶提供的貸款額度。同樣，我們擁有的數據越多，我們的風險評估就越精確。因此，所有這些動態也適用於無擔保貸款，我們相信，信用承保同樣擴展到該產品類別。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Tito Labarta。

Hi, good evening. Thank you for the call and taking my question. My question on the secured lending, you mentioned here, you got $1.4 billion in secured loans. So you see it is much bigger than kind of we had thought. I think it's the first time you disclosed this, and you continue to grow the originations there.

嗨，晚上好。感謝您來電並回答我的問題。我的問題是關於擔保貸款，您在這裡提到，您獲得了 14 億美元的擔保貸款。所以你看它比我們想像的要大得多。我想這是你第一次披露這一點，而且你在那裡繼續發展起源。

I just want to understand how do you think about the continued growth of that, both from FGTS and payroll loans. Now that I think on the payroll loan side, you have signed several agreements. You have the portability. Do you think this growth should accelerate even faster?

我只是想了解您如何看待 FGTS 和薪資貸款的持續成長。現在我認為在薪資貸款方面，你已經簽署了幾份協議。您具有可移植性。您認為這種成長速度應該更快嗎？

Also particularly in a year where macro is a little bit more challenging in Brazil, do you think this can really be a big driver of growth and profitability for the rest of the year? Just help us maybe contextualize the growth or the opportunity set of the secured lending portfolio.

此外，特別是在巴西宏觀經濟面臨更大挑戰的一年，您是否認為這真的能成為今年剩餘時間內經濟成長和獲利的一大推動力？只是幫助我們了解擔保貸款組合的成長或機會集。

No, Tito. Thanks so much for your question, and we couldn't be more excited with the growth of our secured lending portfolio in both kind of the direct P&L and unit economics that it brings, but also the strategic relevance of growing in an asset class that has proven to have a relatively good correlation with principality for our customers. But let me try to break down my responses in a few.

不，蒂托。非常感謝您的提問，我們對我們的擔保貸款組合的成長感到非常興奮，它不僅帶來了直接損益和單位經濟，而且也具有成長的戰略意義，事實證明，這種資產類別與我們的客戶具有相對良好的相關性。但請讓我嘗試將我的回答分解成幾點。

So within the secured lending portfolio today, we basically have three asset classes. We have public payroll loans. We have FGTS, and we have investment-backed launch. So public payroll loans, we have over the course of the last 12, 15 months, being basically improving products and features focused primarily on the two major collateral lines, namely INSS and Ciapi. By the end of 2024, I believe that we have reached what we call product parity with the market.

因此，在今天的擔保貸款組合中，我們基本上有三個資產類別。我們有公共薪資貸款。我們有 FGTS，我們有投資支持的發布。因此，我們在過去 12 到 15 個月的時間裡一直在改進公共工資貸款的產品和功能，主要關注兩種主要抵押品，即 INSS 和 Ciapi。到 2024 年底，我相信我們已經達到所謂的產品與市場的平價。

So our customers today can do first loans, can do refinancing, can do top-up with portability. So we do expect that just relying on those two main collateral agreements, which account together for more than 50% of the target market, we will see an acceleration of our originations and loan portfolio throughout 2025.

因此，我們今天的客戶可以進行首次貸款，可以進行再融資，可以進行可移植性的儲值。因此，我們確實預計，僅依靠這兩項主要抵押協議（它們合計佔目標市場的 50% 以上），我們將在 2025 年看到我們的貸款發放和貸款組合加速成長。

Now in addition to INSS and Ciapi, we have now signed over 9 or 10 new collateral agreements including with the Brazilian Armed Forces and the largest states and municipalities of the country, which should only add fuel to the fire. And in fact, in January 2025, we have seen historical high originations for public payroll loans and secured lending in general. So we are excited with the prospects of secure -- public payroll loans, secured lending.

現在，除了 INSS 和 Ciapi 之外，我們還與巴西武裝部隊以及全國最大的州和市政府簽署了 9 到 10 份新的附屬協議，這只會火上澆油。事實上，到 2025 年 1 月，我們看到公共工資貸款和一般擔保貸款的發放量達到了歷史最高水準。因此，我們對安全的前景——公共工資貸款、擔保貸款——感到非常興奮。

Now going to the second asset class, FGTS, that has been what we believe to be a fairly successful entry strategy into a new product. We estimate that we already account for more than 30% of the originations of FGTS financing in Brazil, which we see with no positive lens for two reasons. First, it is a very profitable, very resilient asset class in itself. But also it showcases how successful a direct-to-consumer, fully digital distribution channel can play out in Brazil. And we hope to take the learnings that we have accumulated with FGTS into public payroll launch.

現在談談第二種資產類別 FGTS，我們認為這是一個相當成功的新產品進入策略。我們估計，我們已經佔巴西 FGTS 融資來源的 30% 以上，但由於兩個原因，我們對此情況並不看好。首先，它本身就是一個利潤豐厚、彈性很大的資產類別。但它也展示了直接面向消費者的全數位分銷管道在巴西可以取得多大的成功。我們希望將在 FGTS 累積的經驗運用到公共薪資的推出中。

And then finally, the third asset class, which is investment-backed loans which accounts for no give or take, 10%, 15% of our total originations, and we will continue to expand in line with the expansion of our customer base and asset class. So those three asset classes are what we consider to be today, our secured lending, and we think it will only pick up throughout 2025.

最後，第三個資產類別是投資支持貸款，這占我們總貸款發放量的 10% 到 15%，而且我們將隨著客戶群和資產類別的擴大而繼續擴大。因此，這三種資產類別就是我們今天所認為的擔保貸款，我們認為它只會在 2025 年回升。

It is also timely, Tito, to highlight the prospects of private Consignado, which you have been writing about and many other people have been talking about, which is a completely new asset class that may be formed in Brazil, even though technically, this asset class already exists today, the changes and improvements that are expected to be brought to the market can really unleash the growth of a new form of consumer credit in the country.

蒂托，現在強調私人信貸的前景也是恰逢其時，您曾寫過這篇文章，其他很多人都在談論它，這是巴西可能形成的一個全新的資產類別，儘管從技術上講，這種資產類別今天已經存在，但預計將給市場帶來的變化和改進，可以真正激發該國新型消費信貸的增長。

And it will not only be able to increase the size of the pie of consumer credit in Brazil, but also materially improve the terms and conditions of credits to Brazilian consumers. So we have been working very closely with the Brazilian government with other industry participants. And we believe that this could be a very good opportunity for our customer base and for Nu Bank to continue to expand its share of wallet.

這不僅能夠增加巴西消費信貸的規模，還能實質改善巴西消費者的信貸條款和條件。因此，我們一直與巴西政府以及其他產業參與者密切合作。我們相信，這對我們的客戶群以及 Nu Bank 繼續擴大其錢包份額來說都是一個很好的機會。

Great. That's very helpful. Lago. If I can, just a follow-up, just to think about the profitability of the payroll because it's a more secured product and yields are much lower, and we're seeing risk-adjusted NIMs coming down. But I imagine you also have -- you have a lot of capital; you can leverage up the balance sheet. So how do we think about profitability of payroll loans relative to the profitability of credit cards, personal loans, and sort of where the bank is today?

偉大的。這非常有幫助。拉戈。如果可以的話，我只是進行後續思考，只是想考慮一下工資單的盈利能力，因為它是一種更有安全感的產品，收益率要低得多，而且我們看到風險調整後的淨利息收益率正在下降。但我想你也擁有──你有很多資本；你可以利用資產負債表的槓桿。那麼我們如何看待薪資貸款的獲利能力相對於信用卡、個人貸款的獲利能力以及銀行目前的狀況呢？

So you are absolutely right, Tito. So the profitability, if you measure this on ROE, the ROE of the secured lending asset class is, in fact, lower than the ROE of the unsecured lending and lower than the ROE of credit cards. However, I would not agree with the assertion that the growth in secured lending is expected to dilute our overall ROE. Why do I say so? Because we will not be growing secured lending at the expense of credit cards or at the expense of unsecured lending. We will basically be putting to work the excess of liquidity and the excess of capital that we have in the balance sheet.

所以你完全正確，蒂托。因此，如果用 ROE 來衡量獲利能力，擔保貸款資產類別的 ROE 實際上低於無擔保貸款的 ROE，也低於信用卡的 ROE。然而，我不同意擔保貸款的成長預計會稀釋我們的整體 ROE 的說法。我為什麼這麼說呢？因為我們不會以犧牲信用卡或無抵押貸款為代價來增加抵押貸款。我們將主要利用資產負債表中的過剩流動性和過剩資本。

So if I were to illustrate this more simplicity, we are basically shifting part of our treasury bond portfolio in Brazil to fund our secured lending business, which in itself has a much bigger NIMs and risk-adjusted NIMs for us. So it does have a lower ROIs or lower ROEs, but it should not be diluted to the overall level of profitability of the company. On the contrary, it should help us kind of optimize balance sheet deployment and overall profitability levels for the company.

因此，如果我要更簡單地說明這一點，我們基本上是將我們在巴西的部分國債投資組合轉移到為我們的擔保貸款業務提供資金，這本身為我們帶來了更大的淨利息收入和風險調整後的淨利息收入。因此，它確實具有較低的投資回報率或較低的股本回報率，但這不應影響公司的整體獲利水平。相反，它應該幫助我們優化公司的資產負債表部署和整體獲利水準。

Not to mention, Tito, the fact that it is an important product to foster additional primary banking relationship, additional engagement, which in itself will bring kind of lots of long-term benefits to the relationship of Nu Bank with our now over 110 million customers in Brazil.

更不用說，Tito，事實上，它是促進額外的主要銀行關係、額外的參與的重要產品，這本身將為 Nu Bank 與目前在巴西的 1.1 億多客戶的關係帶來許多長期利益。

Thiago Batista, UBS.

瑞銀的蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔。

Okay. I have one question about the credit card business, especially in Brazil. When we to look for the numbers in your market share by segment seems that now is approaching kind of maturation of this product in the country. Do you agree with this view that there is not a lot of room to expand in the card business in Brazil.

好的。我有一個關於信用卡業務的問題，特別是在巴西。當我們按細分市場查看您所在市場的份額數字時，似乎該產品在該國已經接近成熟。您是否同意這種觀點，即巴西的信用卡業務沒有太大的發展空間？

And just as a follow-up on this point, we saw this quarter a contraction in the NII of credit card. Do you have -- this was caused by the Pix financing? Or there is no explanation for this contraction in the NII of the card business?

作為對這一點的後續跟進，我們發現本季度信用卡的國家資訊基礎設施 (NII) 有所收縮。你有——這是由 Pix 融資造成的嗎？或者說，對於卡片業務的國家資訊基礎結構指數 (NII) 的這種收縮沒有任何解釋？

So let me -- thanks for the question. Let me try to get the reduction in the NII or in the yield of credit card, and then I'll let Jag or Youssef comment on our credit card penetration across the segments and the growth opportunities that we continue to have within this product in Brazil.

所以請容許我—感謝您的提問。讓我試著了解 NII 或信用卡收益的減少情況，然後我會讓 Jag 或 Youssef 評論一下我們的信用卡在各個領域的滲透率，以及我們在巴西的該產品中繼續擁有的成長機會。

So generally, what you will see is that what we call credit card yield over the last two or three quarters has decreased in Brazil. That has been largely a function of two things. So as we continue to grow the -- our shares in our more affluent customers, namely what we call UV or Ultraviolet there is -- we operate with lower price points when we enter more affluent customers. And as the growth of more affluent customers through UV has outpaced the growth of less affluent customers and therefore, has gained relevance in our overall portfolio, it has contributed to a slight contraction in the credit card yield.

總體而言，您會看到，在過去兩三個季度裡，巴西的信用卡收益率有所下降。這主要是由兩件事引起的。因此，隨著我們在較富裕客戶群中的份額不斷增長，也就是我們所說的 UV 或紫外線，我們在接觸較富裕客戶群時會以更低的價格點運作。而且，由於透過 UV 增加的較富裕客戶的成長速度超過了較不富裕客戶的成長速度，並因此在我們的整體投資組合中獲得了更高的相關性，這導致信用卡收益率略有收縮。

The second thing, which is more related, Tiago, to the second -- to the last two quarters, since the beginning of the second half of 2024 as we identify the second order impacts of Pix's financing, and we reduced the expansion of eligibility in these customers that also has created some headwinds for credit card yield. But overall, this is a product that continues to generate very healthy ROEs and very healthy levels of credit resilience, which we are very happy to continue expanding.

第二件事，與 Tiago 更相關的是，自 2024 年下半年開始，我們確定了 Pix 融資的二階影響，並且我們減少了這些客戶的資格擴展，這也給信用卡收益帶來了一些阻力。但總體而言，這是一種持續產生非常健康的 ROE 和非常健康的信用韌性水平的產品，我們非常高興能夠繼續擴大它。

Yeah. Lago, let me complement on the question from Tiago. Tiago, I think the short answer is we still see significant room for growth in credit card in Brazil. I'll go through it sort of step by step. First of all, in the typical mass market customer that we've historically served, you will note that we've made efforts to reengage customers, who were previously inactive and made some progress on that. That is an ongoing effort. And we have a portfolio of initiatives against that through last year and into this year, and we expect incremental progress in continuing to have improvements in customers' activity in purchase volume, et cetera.

是的。拉戈，讓我補充一下蒂亞戈的問題。蒂亞戈，我認為簡短的回答是我們仍然看到巴西信用卡的巨大成長空間。我將逐步地講解。首先，在我們過去服務過的典型大眾市場客戶中，您會注意到我們已經努力重新吸引那些之前不活躍的客戶，並且在這方面取得了一些進展。這是一項持續不斷的努力。針對這個問題，我們在去年和今年推出了一系列舉措，並預期客戶購買量等活動將繼續取得逐步改善。

There are also significant opportunities, we believe, over the medium term to grow into other segments where we've historically not played as much. I'll point out two of them. First is the high-income customer segment, where over the course of 2024, we have well over doubled the number of Ultravioleta customers and also doubled our purchase volume from Ultravioleta credit cards as we've significantly worked -- we've worked to significantly improve that product.

我們也認為，從中期來看，我們還有很大機會進入過去較少涉足的其他領域。我將指出其中兩點。首先是高收入客戶群，在 2024 年期間，我們的 Ultravioleta 客戶數量增加了一倍多，並且我們的 Ultravioleta 信用卡購買量也增加了一倍，因為我們付出了大量努力——我們努力顯著改進該產品。

We've also started to get some very good early traction for small business customers so-called [pechotas], in the credit card product. So steadily over the medium term and beyond, we expect that there is significant room to grow in our credit card product just in Brazil, where, as you will know, we've only had today about 14% market share, as indicated by purchase volume.

在信用卡產品方面，我們也開始為所謂的小型企業客戶（pechotas）帶來一些非常好的早期吸引力。因此，從中期及以後來看，我們預計我們的信用卡產品在巴西還有很大的成長空間，正如你所知，按購買量計算，我們目前在巴西的市佔率僅為 14% 左右。

And so we don't think we're anywhere near the frontier of what is possible with the business model. Some -- there's more room for growth in the mass market, even though our shares are higher there. And there are many new segments, which we've been laying the groundwork for several years and in particular, in 2024.

因此，我們認為我們還遠遠未達到該商業模式所能達到的極限。儘管我們的份額較高，但大眾市場仍有更大的成長空間。還有許多新的細分市場，我們已經為之奠定了基礎好幾年了，特別是2024年。

Gustavo Schroden, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Gustavo Schroden。

Hi, good evening, everybody. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is regarding the credit cycle. We've seen some signals of a potential deterioration in inflation, inflation for foods. And we know that there is a high correlation between inflation and asset quality, also an environmental high interest rates or some questions about the macroeconomic environment that we've seen the system or most of banks that we talk to adopting a more conservative approach on the credit concession.

大家晚上好。謝謝你的機會。我的問題是關於信貸週期的。我們已經看到一些通貨膨脹、食品通膨可能惡化的跡象。我們知道通貨膨脹和資產品質之間存在高度相關性，同時環境高利率或有關宏觀經濟環境的一些問題也表明，我們所接觸的大多數銀行在信貸優惠方面採取了更保守的態度。

And I can see that according to this call and your words, we can see that Nu is still, I would say, relatively positive in terms of credit growth of or excluding the Pix finance, as you explained that you need to redesign the product. But on the other products, we can see you you're still positive on the pace of growth.

而且根據這次電話會議和您的言論，我可以看到，Nu 在信貸成長方面仍然持相對積極的態度，或者排除 Pix Finance 的影響，正如您所解釋的那樣，您需要重新設計產品。但就其他產品而言，我們可以看到您對成長速度仍然持樂觀態度。

I'd like to understand what's the difference here? And if you do not have concerns about potential adverse selection in this environment? Thank you.

我想了解這裡有什麼不同？如果您不擔心這種環境下潛在的不利選擇呢？謝謝。

Hi Gustavo, This is Youssef. Thanks for the question. Listen, I wouldn't say that we're not concerned about macro. In fact, just as a reminder, in our -- the way we underwrite credit in good and bad times, we're always very concerned about adverse effects from macro factors, external factors, and just kind of generally unknown factors.

你好，古斯塔沃，我是優素福。謝謝你的提問。聽著，我不會說我們不關心宏觀。事實上，需要提醒的是，在我們承保信貸（無論是在順境或逆境）的方式中，我們總是非常擔心宏觀因素、外部因素以及通常未知的因素所帶來的不利影響。

And so this is why we always say that when we underwrite a loan or a credit card or any form of credit, we expect the future to be significantly worse than the past, right? Those are the assumptions that we put in our models to underwrite. They always have a significant stress from a forward-looking perspective. and we've adhered to that philosophy throughout.

所以這就是為什麼我們總是說，當我們承保貸款、信用卡或任何形式的信貸時，我們預計未來會比過去糟糕得多，對嗎？這些是我們在模型中提出的假設。從前瞻性的角度來看，他們始終承受著巨大的壓力。我們始終堅持這理念。

This is not the first time that we face -- we're facing a negative outlook with respect to Brazil macro in particular. And not only -- it's a matter of outlook; we've actually gone through severe recessions throughout our 10-plus year history. So we have both a battle-tested portfolio and a battle-tested kind of underwriting framework around that.

這不是我們第一次面臨——尤其是我們面臨對巴西宏觀經濟的負面前景。這不僅是一個觀點的問題；我們在十多年的歷史中實際上經歷過嚴重的經濟衰退。因此，我們擁有久經考驗的投資組合和久經考驗的承保架構。

So we try not to time the market with a lot of precision, because we don't think we have a better crystal ball than anyone in terms of forecasting short term, what happens to macro, what happens to asset quality. And so we prefer to take a very conservative approach and assume that the future is going to be worse than in the past at all times.

因此，我們盡量不去太精確地預測市場時機，因為我們認為，在預測短期、宏觀和資產品質方面，我們的預測能力並不比任何人強。因此，我們傾向於採取非常保守的方法，並假設未來的情況將始終比過去更糟。

And we've learned that in terms of our ability to withstand negative parts of the cycle, the decisions we make in good times when the macro is favorable, tend to drive our performance of the portfolio in bad times. And so we think we've underwritten the portfolio throughout the cycle that is very resilient that can withstand over twice the amount of risk that we've observed and still be profitable and above hurdle from an NPV perspective. And so we continue to underwrite with that level of caution built into the system.

我們已經了解到，就我們抵禦週期負面部分的能力而言，我們在宏觀經濟有利的時期所做的決策，往往會在經濟不景氣時推動我們的投資組合的表現。因此，我們認為，我們在整個週期內承保的投資組合非常有彈性，可以承受我們觀察到的兩倍以上的風險，並且從 NPV 角度來看仍然可以盈利且高於障礙。因此，我們將繼續以系統內建的這種謹慎程度進行承保。

In addition to that, we're not blind to the fact that the forecast has worsened in Brazil. And so when we do not just underwriting, but when we do allowance and provisioning, we do reflect a slightly worsened forecast in terms of how much we provisioned. So those are some of the ways we think about that, and we remain really confident in our ability to continue to underwrite and continue to grow in both good and bad parts of the cycle as we have in the past.

除此之外，我們也看到巴西的預測情況已經惡化。因此，當我們不僅進行承保，而且進行撥備和撥備時，我們確實反映出撥備額的預測略有惡化。以上就是我們對此的一些看法，我們仍然對自己的能力充滿信心，相信我們能夠像過去一樣，在經濟週期的好壞階段繼續承保並繼續成長。

Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

美國銀行的馬裡奧·皮埃里 (Mario Pierry)。

Hi, good evening, everybody. Thanks, for taking my question. I wanted to ask the question to David. On your last slide, you talked about building the critical -- taking the critical steps to build a global franchise or a global scale this year.

大家晚上好。謝謝您回答我的問題。我想問大衛這個問題。在上一張投影片中，您談到了建立關鍵內容——今年採取關鍵步驟來建立全球特許經營或全球規模。

I wanted to hear a little bit more what does this mean in terms of investments and costs in -- exactly what is the plan? Are we talking about here then which markets are you looking to enter? Are you most excited about potential US franchise or expanding in Southeast Asia, Africa, or other countries in Latin America. So again, if you can give us a little bit more what are you thinking about becoming this global digital bank? And also, what does this mean in terms of expenses in '25? Thank you.

我想多聽一點，就投資和成本而言，這意味著什麼——到底計劃是什麼？那麼我們在這裡談論的是您想進入哪些市場？您是否對潛在的美國特許經營權或向東南亞、非洲或拉丁美洲其他國家擴張最為感興趣？那麼，您能否再向我們透露一點，您對成為這家全球數位銀行有何想法？而且，這對 25 年的費用來說又意味著什麼？謝謝。

Sure, happy to. So going back a bit to where we started the business, we've -- the basic hypothesis of Nu Bank since 2013 is that the digital banking model that we are growing is the right business model to bank 80%, 90% of the world population. 20, 30, 40 years from now, we're not going to be seeing people go into a banking branch. It's going to be much more of an exception than a rule. And we think about the past 10 years in Brazil, Mexico, and Colombia as having been able to prove that hypothesis, at least in the first market, which is Brazil.

當然，很樂意。回顧我們開始這項業務的起點，自 2013 年以來，Nu Bank 的基本假設是，我們正在發展的數位銀行模式是服務全球 80% 至 90% 人口的正確商業模式。 20、30、40年後，我們將不會看到人們走進銀行分行。這更像是一種例外，而非規則。我們認為，過去 10 年在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的發展已經能夠證明這個假設，至少在第一個市場，也就是巴西是如此。

I think what we can show when we show our Brazilian business today, it's -- we can prove that this is a model that, number one, can reach more people and can include more people into financial services, can do it with a higher quality with a higher Net Promoter Score, can do it with a much lower cost, and also with a higher profitability. It's a superior business model, because it makes every stakeholder better: consumers, investors, and employees.

我認為，當我們今天展示我們的巴西業務時，我們可以證明，這種模式首先可以覆蓋更多的人，可以讓更多的人參與到金融服務中來，可以以更高的質量和更高的淨推薦值做到這一點，可以以更低的成本做到這一點，同時還可以實現更高的盈利能力。這是一種卓越的商業模式，因為它讓每個利害關係人變得更好：消費者、投資者和員工。

And Mexico and Colombia is going in the same direction. I think we're very good -- we're very happy so far with the results that we've seen so far, and it's following a very similar path to Brazil, even though the markets are differently in a number of different ways. So in a way, we think about the first 10, 11 years of Nu Bank history have proven the hypothesis in this core banking market in Latin America.

墨西哥和哥倫比亞也正朝著同樣的方向前進。我認為我們做得非常好——到目前為止，我們對所看到的結果感到非常滿意，而且它走的路線與巴西非常相似，儘管市場在許多方面存在差異。因此從某種程度上來說，我們認為 Nu Bank 的前 10、11 年歷史已經在拉丁美洲核心銀行市場證明了這個假設。

Then the question is, how do we go for the next 10 years? And I think over the next 10 years, we'll continue to go after that hypothesis of testing this model really in more countries be on Latin America. There are a number of complexities to do that. This is not an easy model to internationalize, especially the way we do it, which is we want to become the primary bank account of our customers. We're not just a wallet -- we don't want to be just a wallet where you live some cash to do some payments or some remittances. We want to be the primary bank account of customers. We think that's the most valuable strategic pursuing in banking because of all the advantages that that brings.

那麼問題來了，未來10年我們該如何走？我認為在未來十年，我們將繼續追尋這個假設，在拉丁美洲等更多國家測試這個模型。要做到這一點有很多複雜的事情。這不是一個容易國際化的模式，尤其是我們的做法，即我們希望成為客戶的主要銀行帳戶。我們不僅僅是一個錢包——我們不想只是成為一個讓你用現金進行某些支付或匯款的錢包。我們希望成為客戶的主要銀行帳戶。我們認為這是銀行業最有價值的策略追求，因為它帶來了許多優勢。

And to be a primary bank account, we have to go very deep in these markets. We have to get banking licenses. We have to get connected with a number of different local parties. So therefore, it has been a relatively slow internationalization.

為了成為主要的銀行帳戶，我們必須深入這些市場。我們必須獲得銀行執照。我們必須與許多不同的地方政黨建立聯繫。因此，我們的國際化進程相對緩慢。

A big part of that speed of the internationalization has to do with our technology platform. Nobody in history, as far as we can tell globally, no other global bank, global consumer retail bank has been able to build a multi-country platform that is extremely efficient that has one core base that ultimately could give them a significant advantage in expanding. And that's what -- we've actually been building this already for about 18 months and probably have another 18 to 24 months, and it's something that will continue maybe forever. It is having a core bank -- proprietary core banking platform that allows us to be in multiple countries that allows us to launch new countries with relatively low investment.

國際化速度的很大一部分與我們的技術平台有關。據我們所知，歷史上還沒有其他全球銀行、全球消費者零售銀行能夠建立一個極其高效的跨國平台，擁有一個核心基礎，最終使它們在擴張方面獲得顯著優勢。這就是——我們實際上已經建立了這個專案大約 18 個月，並且可能還需要 18 到 24 個月，而且這個計劃可能會永遠持續下去。它擁有一個核心銀行——專有的核心銀行平台，使我們能夠進入多個國家，使我們能夠以相對較低的投資進入新的國家。

So getting specifically to your question, what this really means is we're continuing to build this technology platform and this technology infrastructure through 2025. It's not going to be a meaningful expense change versus what we already have been investing. We've mentioned last year that 30% to 40% of our employees today are building products that are generating no revenue. So we're investing significantly for these next 10 years of evolution already.

具體來說，這實際上意味著我們將在 2025 年之前繼續建立這個技術平台和技術基礎設施。與我們已經投資的相比，這不會是一次有意義的支出變化。我們去年提到過，目前我們有 30% 到 40% 的員工正在開發沒有產生任何收入的產品。因此，我們已經為未來十年的發展投入了大量資金。

That is true for 2023. That is for 2024, will be true 2025. Won't be a significant change versus what you've seen in 2024. And once we pick a country or countries, we're going to always do it in a way where it's more of a call option approach where we start slowly. We invest little money upfront. And as we get confidence and conviction about markets, we're going to continue to invest significantly.

對於 2023 年也是如此。這是 2024 年的情況，2025 年也將實現。與 2024 年所見的情況相比，不會有重大變化。一旦我們選擇一個或多個國家，我們總是會採取一種更像看漲期權的方式，慢慢開始。我們前期投入的資金很少。隨著我們對市場越來越有信心和信心，我們將繼續進行大量投資。

That's what we did in Mexico, that's what we did in Brazil. We launched Brazil with $1 million. We launched Mexico with about the same. So you won't expect us doing big bank approaches in new big markets. We'll take a much more careful approach, testing the hypothesis at every angle, trying to leverage our technology and our own capabilities, and do it in a way where if we find this significant upside, we'll invest much more on that.

這就是我們在墨西哥所做的，這也是我們在巴西所做的。我們以 100 萬美元的資金啟動了巴西計畫。我們以差不多相同的方式推出了墨西哥版。因此你不會指望我們在新的大市場中採取大銀行的做法。我們將採取更謹慎的方法，從各個角度測試假設，嘗試利用我們的技術和我們自己的能力，並且如果我們發現這個顯著的優勢，我們就會在這方面投入更多。

So long answer to your question, which is effectively, don't expect any meaningful changes in expenses. That's already embedded in the type of expense and investment that we've already been doing for a few years.

對於你的問題的回答很長，實際上，不要指望費用會有任何有意義的變化。這已經融入我們幾年來的支出和投資類型。

Okay. Now, that's clear. But when we think about it, right, I think you mentioned that today, you only have 4% market share of the profit pool of the revenue pool of the countries where you are operating. It feels like still you are still at a very, very early stage in the current countries. Wouldn't it make more sense first to continue to grow in these countries and make sure that you get the strategy right, especially in Mexico?

好的。現在一切都清楚了。但當我們考慮一下，對吧，我想你提到過，今天，你在你經營所在的國家的收入池利潤池中只佔有 4% 的市場份額。感覺你們在目前的國家仍然處於非常非常早期的階段。首先繼續在這些國家發展並確保戰略正確，尤其是在墨西哥，這不是更有意義嗎？

It feels like you're going in the right direction, but it will probably take a few more years before you become profitable, and it's a very competitive market, right? The Brazilian market is also evolving. We're seeing competitors ever since you entered the market. They're adapting, right?

感覺你們正朝著正確的方向前進，但可能還需要幾年時間才能獲利，而且這個市場競爭非常激烈，對嗎？巴西市場也在不斷發展。自從你們進入市場以來，我們就看到了競爭對手。他們正在適應，對吧？

So my main concern is, okay, I get 30% to 40% of employees are working on projects that don't generate revenues today. But what about senior management, the distraction that you are going to have when you try to become like a global franchise? So again, sorry for the question, but it feels like maybe a little bit too early. They maybe should be bigger in your existing countries before you start thinking globally?

所以我主要擔心的是，好吧，我發現 30% 到 40% 的員工正在從事目前不會產生收入的專案。但是對於高階管理層來說，當您試圖成為全球特許經營公司時，您會面臨哪些幹擾呢？所以，再次抱歉提問，但感覺可能有點太早了。在你們開始放眼全球之前，它們或許應該在你們現有的國家做得更大？

No, I think it's a phenomenal question. And I actually -- I think you're right, and you're actually saying exactly what we're saying, which is the focus and if you listen -- if you go back a bit to what I said initially, the overwhelming focus on management and the company remains on what we call Act I. So Act I, which is Brazil, Mexico, and Colombia continue to have over 90% of all the focus of the company. We think this is the highest priority.

不，我認為這是一個非凡的問題。事實上，我認為你是對的，你說的和我們說的完全一樣，那就是重點。我們認為這是最優先考慮的事情。

We continue to -- we think Mexico is a huge opportunity. We're excited about the secured lending opportunity. Brazil, the 4% revenue market share that you mentioned in Latin America. It's tiny. There is a lot that we can do increase in the revenue shares, especially in the three countries that we operate, which account for 60% of the entire revenue share of Latin America.

我們繼續——我們認為墨西哥是一個巨大的機會。我們對擔保貸款機會感到非常興奮。巴西，即您提到的拉丁美洲4%的收入市場份額。它很小。我們可以做很多事情來增加收入份額，特別是在我們經營的三個國家，這三個國家佔拉丁美洲整個收入份額的 60%。

So you and I are aligned. The point, though, is right now for internationalization specifically, getting ready is a multi-year effort. And so it is prudent to start investing 1%, 2% of our capacity to be ready to do that in a few years with much more investment of resources and energy.

所以你和我一致。不過，目前的重點是，具體到國際化，準備工作需要多年的努力。因此，明智的做法是開始投資 1% 到 2% 的產能，以便在幾年內投入更多的資源和能源。

So we cannot do this fully sequentially. You got to do a little parallel execution there. 90%-plus goes into core. Even the 40% metric of employees investing in stuff that don't generate revenue, they are associated with Act II, which is going financial services, and that is associated with the markets that we are today. But for internationalization, specifically today is a tiny percentage of our capacity that is going into figuring out that next phase of growth that we have ahead.

因此，我們無法完全按順序進行此操作。您必須在那裡進行一些並行執行。 90%以上都進入核心。即使有 40% 的員工投資於不會產生收入的項目，這也與第二幕有關，即金融服務，這與我們今天的市場有關。但就國際化而言，具體來說，今天我們只投入了一小部分能力來探索未來下一個成長階段。

John Coffey, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的約翰·科菲。

Great. Well, thank you very much for taking my question. I saw that your principality is now at, I think, 61% of your active customers, so up from 60% last quarter. I know this is probably going to be a challenging question to answer. But can you give me a high-level way of thinking about what these one point increases in principality, what that could mean to the P&L and the model in general. Any views on what we should see if you went to 62%, all other things being equal, what that impact would be on revenue, margins, net income?

偉大的。好吧，非常感謝您回答我的問題。我發現您的公國現在佔活躍客戶的 61%，比上一季的 60% 上升。我知道這可能是一個很難回答的問題。但是，您能否從高層次的角度來思考公國度增加的這些點意味著什麼，這對損益表和整個模型意味著什麼。如果將這一比例提高到 62%，在其他所有條件相同的情況下，對收入、利潤率和淨收入會產生什麼影響？

Yeah, John. Thanks so much for your question. Look, I think I wouldn't necessarily get too focused on principality going up by 1% or down 1%. There is some seasonality effects there, especially given how we measure principality. Especially in the fourth quarter of the year, there is a higher concentration on purchase volumes and transactions that may kind of bring principal a little bit up and eventually a little bit down.

是的，約翰。非常感謝您的提問。聽著，我認為我不會太關注公國上漲 1% 或下跌 1%。這其中存在一些季節性影響，特別是考慮到我們如何衡量公國。特別是在一年的第四季度，購買量和交易的集中度更高，這可能會使本金略有上升，最終略有下降。

But I think if I step back and try to address your question, the primary banking relationship metric for us, which is a metric that we have been evolving over time is one of the most important operational KPIs for the company, because we do believe that primary banking relationship is one of the holy grails of digital banking globally.

但我想，如果我退一步嘗試回答你的問題，對我們來說，主要銀行關係指標是我們一直在發展的指標，也是公司最重要的營運 KPI 之一，因為我們確實相信主要銀行關係是全球數位銀行的聖杯之一。

Why do we say so? Because the ARPAC of a primary banking relationship customer is now 3 times to 4 times higher than the ARPAC of a non-primary banking relationship customer. The delinquency of our primary banking relationship customer is 48% lower than the delinquency of a non-primary banking relationship customer on an apples-to-apples basis.

為什麼這麼說呢？因為現在主要銀行關係客戶的 ARPAC 比非主要銀行關係客戶的 ARPAC 高出 3 到 4 倍。以同類標準計算，我們主要銀行關係客戶的拖欠率比非主要銀行關係客戶的拖欠率低 48%。

And so this is the way that our model has been construed. As David mentioned, we are not envisioning to be kind of the secondary wallet or an FX play. We often mentioned that we are not in the business of collecting social security numbers. We are in the business of becoming the primary banking relationship of our customers.

這就是我們的模型的建構方式。正如大衛所提到的，我們並不打算成為一種二級錢包或外匯遊戲。我們經常提到，我們的業務並不是收集社會安全號碼。我們的業務是成為客戶的主要銀行關係。

And in a world, especially in Brazil, in which open banking or open finance is expected to unfold positively over the coming quarters, we think it is going to even increase the relevance of becoming the primary banking relationship of our customers. So it's not only a long-term strategic angle. It's also a very short-term kind of P&L boost, and this is one of our primary kind of north stars.

在全球，尤其是在巴西，開放銀行或開放金融預計將在未來幾季取得積極進展，我們認為，它成為我們客戶的主要銀行關係的重要性將進一步增加。所以這不僅僅是一個長期的戰略角度。這也是一個非常短期的損益提升，也是我們主要的北極星之一。

Thank you. And one quick follow-up. On your LDR, which dipped from 40% to 39%, I was wondering if you could think a little bit about what the bottleneck is here of why that wouldn't get to maybe 45% in the near term? Is it -- would you say most of this is Mexico, which you have a big deposit base, but maybe you're still maybe battle testing the credit model a little bit in that you're not really ready to deploy more of that capital immediately? Or is it something else?

謝謝。還有一個快速的後續行動。關於您的貸款比率從 40% 下降到 39% 的問題，我想知道您是否可以稍微思考一下這裡的瓶頸是什麼，為什麼短期內貸款比率不會達到 45% 左右？您是否認為其中大部分是在墨西哥，您在那裡擁有龐大的存款基礎，但或許您仍在對信貸模式進行一些測試，因為您還沒有準備好立即部署更多資本？還是別的什麼？

No, I think -- look, let me address two points on this good question, John. So first, when you look at any financial institution with an LDR of 39%, I think the first question that one may ask is, look, why don't you drop the deposit rates that you're paying? Or why don't you increase the loan book that you have in order to optimize the balance sheet?

不，我認為──聽著，約翰，讓我就這個好問題談兩點。首先，當你看到任何一家金融機構的貸存比為 39% 時，我想人們可能會問的第一個問題是，為什麼不降低你所支付的存款利率呢？或者為什麼不增加貸款帳簿以優化資產負債表？

I think the first approach is we do believe, as we mentioned before, that we want to be the primary banking relationship of most of our customers. And in order to achieve that, we do need to be the place where they make payments, receive payments, store value, and therefore, having a very relevant deposit franchise is very strategic for us, not only from a primary banking relationship perspective, not only from a funding perspective, but also from a lead acquisition perspective.

我認為第一種方法是，正如我們之前提到的，我們確實相信，我們希望成為大多數客戶的主要銀行關係。為了實現這一目標，我們確實需要成為他們付款、收款和儲存價值的地方，因此，擁有非常相關的存款特許經營權對我們來說非常具有戰略意義，不僅從主要銀行關係的角度，不僅從融資的角度，而且從領先獲取的角度。

So we do not see necessarily having a low LDR as a sign of weakness of the model. On the contrary, it should be seen as a way that we are getting more and more customers' principality and engagement through our platform.

因此，我們不認為較低的 LDR 一定是模型弱點的標誌。相反，這應該被視為我們透過我們的平台獲得越來越多客戶的信任和參與的一種方式。

Now of course, we do aim and we would love to be able to grow our credit book faster and faster over time in order to kind of optimize the balance sheet, but we also have to be fairly responsible that scaling credit book, specifically unsecured credit books, it's something that you have to do with a very systematic credit underwriting discipline, and you cannot necessarily double or triple your credit book just because you got more deposits. You need to do so carefully and with the right level of credit resilience and thoughtfulness that we believe we have been doing over the past years.

當然，我們確實有目標，我們希望能夠隨著時間的推移越來越快地增加我們的信用賬簿，以便優化資產負債表，但我們也必須對擴大信用賬簿、特別是無擔保信用賬簿負有相當的責任，這是你必須通過非常系統的信用承保紀律來做的事情，你不能僅僅因為你獲得了更多的存款就將你的信用賬簿增加一倍或三倍。您需要謹慎行事，並保持適當的信用韌性和深思熟慮，我們相信我們在過去幾年中一直在這樣做。

So that's, I think, the disconnect that we have been seeing over the past quarters. The growth in deposits in Mexico and Colombia over the past two quarters have certainly contributed to lowering our loan-to-deposit ratio. But in both countries, mainly in Mexico, we are very confident in that 2025. We'll see a very pronounced ramp-up in the velocity with which we grow the loan book there. Every single credit metric that we observe in Mexico is performing as per our expectation or even slightly better than expected and that will kind of lay the groundwork for us to continue to improve the balance sheet in each of those geos.

所以，我認為，這就是我們在過去幾季看到的脫節。過去兩季墨西哥和哥倫比亞存款的成長無疑有助於降低我們的貸款存款比率。但在這兩個國家，主要是墨西哥，我們對 2025 年非常有信心。我們將看到那裡的貸款成長速度明顯加快。我們在墨西哥觀察到的每一個信用指標都符合我們的預期，甚至略好於預期，這將為我們繼續改善每個地區的資產負債表奠定基礎。

Yuri Fernandes, JP Morgan.

尤里‧費爾南德斯 (Juri Fernandes)，摩根大通 (JP Morgan)。

Good evening, everyone, and thanks for the opportunity of asking questions. I would like to ask about unsecured personal loans. If you can provide some more color on the strategy for these products, especially in Brazil. Very good origination. It's the product growing the fastest that you have with more than secured lending that is a less mature product, right?

大家晚上好，感謝給我提問的機會。我想詢問有關無擔保個人貸款的情況。如果您可以提供更多有關這些產品的策略的詳細信息，特別是在巴西。非常好的創作。這是你們成長最快的產品，比不太成熟的擔保貸款產品多，對嗎？

When we look to the number of clients, it is growing, but it's growing a little bit less than the balance. So my question here is like where is the growth coming from, right? Is this a higher duration strategy? Are you going to new customers? Is this linked to the lower loan yield we are seeing? So if you can provide a little bit of color.

當我們查看客戶數量時，它正在增長，但增長幅度略低於餘額。所以我的問題是，成長從何而來？這是一個更長存續期的策略嗎？你要接待新客戶嗎？這和我們看到的貸款收益率下降有關嗎？所以如果你可以提供一點顏色。

And just a question also related to this product, this is usually a higher risk product for most of the time. And we do see you being more selective on fixed finance but not in this product, right? So why -- somewhat a different approach between fixed finance and unsecured personal loans? Thank you.

還有一個問題也與該產品有關，在大多數情況下，這通常是一種高風險產品。我們確實看到您對固定融資更加挑剔，但對於這個產品卻不是這樣，對嗎？那麼為什麼固定融資和無擔保個人貸款之間的方法略有不同呢？謝謝。

Yuri, thanks for the question. This is Jag. I'll try to answer your questions in order. First of all, I would mention to your last point that credit quality has been getting stronger in lending. And we look product line by product line at all of the trends, the first order credit trends, second order customer impacts, et cetera, and make those decisions in a very granular way. So that basically describes why we are making the decisions we are making in lending and why they might be different in Pix financing or other products.

尤里，謝謝你的提問。這是 Jag。我將盡力按順序回答您的問題。首先，我想提一下你的最後一點，即貸款的信用品質已經越來越高。我們逐條查看產品線的所有趨勢，第一順序信用趨勢、第二順序客戶影響等等，並以非常細緻的方式做出決策。所以這基本上描述了為什麼我們在貸款方面做出這樣的決定，以及為什麼這些決定在 Pix 融資或其他產品中可能會有所不同。

Let me zoom out though and talk more broadly about our unsecured lending strategy. And as you've noted, we've seen very healthy growth over the quarter and over 2024 as a whole. There are a couple of hallmarks to what we've been doing that's been driving those results.

不過，讓我擴大範圍並更廣泛地談談我們的無擔保貸款策略。正如您所說，我們在本季以及整個 2024 年都看到了非常健康的成長。我們所做的一些事情有幾個特點推動了這些成果。

First, we've significantly increased the mix of unsecured personal loans that are going to customers who have already taken a first loan with new bank. And as a result, we understand and have vetted the risk dynamics. So an increasing mix of our personal loan portfolio our second loans, our loans to active customers versus in earlier years, when we -- when the business was much less mature and much less scaled, we were offering loans to customers the first time. So now we're offering loans to customers, who we vetted who have either finished paying a loan or are on course to do so in a very healthy way, and we have greater confidence.

首先，我們大幅增加了無擔保個人貸款的種類，這些貸款主要提供給已經在新銀行獲得第一筆貸款的客戶。因此，我們了解並審查了風險動態。因此，我們的個人貸款組合中的第二筆貸款，即向活躍客戶提供的貸款，與前幾年相比有所增加，當時我們的業務還不太成熟，規模也還小，我們第一次向客戶提供貸款。因此，現在我們向客戶提供貸款，這些客戶都是經過審查的，他們要么已經還清貸款，要么正在以非常健康的方式償還貸款，因此我們有更大的信心。

That helps a second dimension of our success, although it's only a part of it, which is that we've been able to do two things simultaneously across our lending portfolio, which are the following: adjusted for risk, and that matters, but adjusted for risk. For any given level of risk, we have been able to offer larger loans and we've been able to offer lower interest rates, better pricing to our customers over the course of 2024. And through, as I mentioned, getting to know our customers better from a personal lending perspective and also through significant investments in credit modeling, which have yielded really significant results, and we expect that to continue through this year as well.

這有助於我們成功的第二個維度，儘管這只是其中的一部分，那就是我們能夠在整個貸款組合中同時做兩​​件事，即：調整風險，這很重要，但要調整風險。對於任何給定的風險水平，我們都能夠在 2024 年期間為客戶提供更大額度的貸款，並且提供更低的利率和更優惠的價格。正如我所提到的，透過從個人貸款角度更好地了解我們的客戶，以及透過在信用模型上進行大量投資，這些已經產生了非常顯著的成果，我們預計這種情況也將持續到今年。

And the third thing I would mention is that, similar to what I talked about in credit card, where the bulk of our book was in the mass market historically, we are now starting to expand personal lending and adjust the product to be a better fit for new segments. And again, I'll mention the same two segments I mentioned when we talked about credit card: high income and small businesses.

我想提到的第三件事是，與我談論的信用卡類似，從歷史上看，我們的大部分帳簿都在大眾市場，現在我們開始擴大個人貸款，並調整產品以更好地適應新的細分市場。再次，我將提到我們在討論信用卡時提到的兩個部分：高收入和小型企業。

In high income, for example, those customers require significantly larger max principles. They expect lower pricing given their lower credit risk on average. And that required significant testing on our part over the last 12-plus months. But as we've gone through that cycle of testing and experimentation, we are now able to provide that to a much better degree. And we're seeing good response from our high-income customers. Similar dynamic on the small business side. So those are the key things that explain the significant success we've had in 2024 and in Q4 on unsecured lending.

例如，高收入客戶需要更大的最大原則。由於平均信用風險較低，他們預期定價也會較低。這需要我們在過去 12 多個月的時間裡進行大量的測試。但隨著我們經歷了一系列的測試和實驗，我們現在能夠提供更好的服務。我們看到高收入客戶對此反應良好。小型企業方面也存在類似的動態。因此，這些是解釋我們在 2024 年和第四季在無擔保貸款方面取得重大成功的關鍵因素。

No. Super clear, Jag. If I may follow up, just on duration, are you changing the strategy on duration? Are you able to go with this more comfortable approach on the lending book? I remember it used to be around 6 months, average duration for this product. Are you able to increase this? Like how are you seeing like the term of the loans here?

不。非常清楚，Jag。如果我可以跟進的話，僅就持續時間而言，您是否會改變持續時間策略？您能在藉貸帳簿上採用這種更舒適的方式嗎？我記得這款產品的平均使用期限大約是 6 個月。你能增加這個嗎？您如何看待這裡的貸款期限？

Yeah, Yuri. That's a great question, and I apologize for missing it on the first go around. It's a great question. What I would say is we are incrementally -- we are working to increase duration as makes sense for our customers. And we are optimistic that we will be able to incrementally increase duration over time relatively slowly but moving in that direction of longer durations.

是的，尤里。這是一個很好的問題，很抱歉我第一次沒有回答它。這是一個很好的問題。我想說的是，我們正在逐步努力延長使用時間，以對我們的客戶來說更合理。我們樂觀地認為，我們將能夠隨著時間的推移，相對緩慢地逐步增加持續時間，但朝著更長持續時間的方向發展。

We have several efforts that are in -- I would say they're relatively early stages of testing to move things in that direction. So yes, I would expect to go in that direction, but I wouldn't expect that to be dramatic or rapid in terms of that trajectory.

我們正在進行多項努力——我想說，它們都處於相對早期的測試階段，旨在推動事情朝著這個方向發展。所以是的，我希望朝那個方向發展，但我預計它的軌跡不會太劇烈或太快速。

Thank you, everyone. We are approaching 90 minutes of the call. So I will have to end the session. So we are now concluding today's call. On behalf of Nu Holdings and our Investor Relations team, I want to thank you very much for your time and participation in our earnings call today. We are very excited with our developments in 2024, and we continue sharpening our execution to build a new asset class that goes beyond traditional financial services in the years to come.

謝謝大家。我們通話已經快進行 90 分鐘了。所以我必須結束會議。我們現在結束今天的電話會議。我謹代表 Nu Holdings 和我們的投資者關係團隊，非常感謝您今天的時間並參與我們的財報電話會議。我們對 2024 年的發展感到非常興奮，並將繼續加強我們的執行力，以在未來幾年內打造超越傳統金融服務的新資產類別。

Over the coming days, we will be following up with the questions received by our platform and with those that attempted, but were not able to ask questions tonight. So please do not hesitate to reach out to our team if you have any further questions. Thank you. Have a good night.

在接下來的幾天裡，我們將跟進我們的平台收到的問題以及今晚嘗試但未能提問的問題。因此，如果您還有任何其他問題，請隨時聯繫我們的團隊。謝謝。祝你晚安。

The Nu Holdings conference call has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Nu Holdings 電話會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。