Nu Holdings Ltd (NU) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nu Holdings conference call to discuss the results for the third-quarter of 2025. A slide presentation is accompanying today's webcast, which is available in Nu's Investor Relations website, www.investors.nu in English and www.investidores.nu in Portuguese.

女士們、先生們，晚上好。歡迎參加 Nu Holdings 2025 年第三季業績電話會議。今天的網路直播附帶幻燈片演示，可在 Nu 的投資者關係網站 www.investors.nu（英文）和 www.investidores.nu（葡萄牙文）上查看。

This conference is being recorded, and the replay can also be accessed on the company's IR website. This call is also available in Portuguese. (Operator Instructions) (spoken in foreign language) (Operator Instructions)

本次會議正在錄影，重播也可在公司投資人關係網站上觀看。該通話也提供葡萄牙語版本。（操作說明）（外語）（操作說明）

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Guilherme Souto, Investor Relations Officer at Nu Holdings. Mr. Souto, you may proceed.

現在我將把電話交給 Nu Holdings 的投資者關係主管 Guilherme Souto 先生。索托先生，您可以繼續了。

Thank you, operator, and thank you, everyone, for joining the earnings call today. If you have not seen the earnings release already, a copy is posted in the Investor Relations website.

謝謝接線員，也謝謝各位參加今天的財報電話會議。如果您尚未看到獲利報告，可以在投資者關係網站上找到副本。

With me on today's call are David Velez, our Founder, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman; and Guilherme Lago, our Chief Financial Officer.

今天與我一起參加電話會議的有我們的創辦人、執行長兼董事長大衛·維萊茲，以及我們的財務長吉列爾梅·拉戈。

Throughout this conference call, we'll be presenting non-IFRS financial information, including adjusted net income. These are important financial measures for Nu Holdings but are not financial measures as defined by IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures from other companies. Reconciliations of the non-IFRS to the IFRS financial information are available in the earnings press release. Unless noted otherwise, all growth rates are on a year-over-year FX-neutral basis.

在本次電話會議中，我們將介紹非國際財務報告準則下的財務信息，包括調整後的淨收入。這些指標對Nu Holdings而言至關重要，但並非國際財務報告準則（IFRS）定義的財務指標，因此可能與其他公司的類似指標不具可比性。非IFRS財務資訊與IFRS財務資訊的調節表可在獲利新聞稿中查閱。除非另有說明，否則所有成長率均以年比匯率不變計算。

I would also like to remind everyone that today's discussion might include forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance, and therefore, you should not put undue reliance on them. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties and could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in the earnings release.

我還要提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述並非對未來業績的保證，因此，大家不應過度依賴這些陳述。這些聲明有許多風險和不確定因素，實際結果可能與我們的預期有重大差異。請參閱盈利報告中的前瞻性聲明揭露部分。

I will now turn the call over to David. Please go ahead, David.

現在我將把通話轉給大衛。請繼續，大衛。

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. In Q3 2025, effectively every single one of our metrics continued to grow, reinforcing our position as the leading digital bank in Latin America and one of the leading fintech platforms globally.

大家好，感謝各位今天收看我們的節目。2025 年第三季度，我們的每項指標都持續成長，鞏固了我們作為拉丁美洲領先的數位銀行和全球領先的金融科技平台之一的地位。

Our customer base grew to 127 million customers, with more than 4 million net additions in the quarter while maintaining an activity rate above 83%, a clear reflection of the depth of engagement we continue to build with our users. In Mexico, we surpassed 13 million customers, now reaching around 14% of the adult population. And in Colombia, we're approaching 4 million customers. Both markets continue to demonstrate strong traction, highlighting the scalability of our model.

我們的客戶群成長至1.27億，本季淨增客戶超過400萬，同時維持了83%以上的活躍度，這清楚反映了我們與用戶之間持續深化的互動。在墨西哥，我們的客戶數量突破1,300萬，覆蓋了約14%的成年人口。在哥倫比亞，我們的客戶數量即將達到 400 萬。兩個市場均持續展現出強勁的成長勢頭，凸顯了我們模式的可擴展性。

The solid growth, combined with continued ARPAC expansion, which surpassed $13 this quarter, has led to record revenues of over $4 billion. These results highlight the compounding effect of our customer expansion, deeper engagement and disciplined monetization.

穩健的成長，加上亞太地區持續擴張（本季超過 13 美元），使得公司營收創下超過 40 億美元的紀錄。這些結果突顯了我們客戶拓展、更深入的客戶互動和嚴格的獲利模式所帶來的複合效應。

Our gross profit continues to rise sharply, reflecting strong unit economics and operating leverage. And with a cost-to-income ratio of 28%, we continue to progress on our trajectory of improving efficiency. And finally, we delivered net income of $783 million, another quarter of solid profitability even as we keep investing in growth and innovation across all markets.

我們的毛利持續大幅成長，反映出強勁的單位經濟效益和經營槓桿作用。目前成本收入比為 28%，我們正朝著提高效率的目標穩步前進。最後，我們實現了 7.83 億美元的淨利潤，即使我們持續投資於所有市場的成長和創新，也再次實現了穩健的獲利能力。

This consistent performance is a direct result of our business model, one that attracts millions of new customers every quarter, fosters deeper engagement that expands monetization, all while operating on a low-cost and highly efficient platform. This formula continues to drive our earnings growth across markets, but with each component playing a distinct role in every geography.

這種持續穩定的業績直接得益於我們的商業模式，每季都能吸引數百萬新客戶，促進更深層的客戶互動，從而擴大獲利能力，同時還能在一個低成本、高效率的平台上運作。這一模式持續推動我們在各個市場的獲利成長，但每個組成部分在每個地區都發揮著不同的作用。

In Brazil, we now serve over 60% of the adult population and estimate that we're already the largest player in the SME segment by number of accounts. Having reached scale, revenue per customer has become the main growth driver. Our focus going forward is broadening our product portfolio, deepening engagement across all segments and continuing to execute our credit strategy, increasing exposure among customers with the strongest risk-adjusted returns.

在巴西，我們目前服務超過 60% 的成年人口，據估計，按帳戶數量計算，我們已經是中小企業領域最大的參與者。規模擴大後，每位客戶的收入已成為主要的成長驅動力。展望未來，我們的重點是擴大產品組合，深化與所有細分市場的互動，並繼續執行信貸策略，增加對風險調整後收益最高的客戶的曝險。

In Mexico, our main focus remains on expanding our customer base, deepening product adoption and advancing financial inclusion, all while laying the groundwork for sustainable long-term monetization. Given the scale-up phase, ARPAC levels are already nearing those seen in Brazil, reflecting the strong unit economics of the credit card business in that market, driven by a higher share of interest-bearing balances and a steadily declining cost to serve supported by our ongoing platformization efforts.

在墨西哥，我們的主要重點仍然是擴大客戶群、加深產品採用和推進普惠金融，同時為可持續的長期利潤奠定基礎。鑑於目前處於規模擴張階段，ARPAC 的水平已經接近巴西的水平，這反映出該市場信用卡業務強勁的單位經濟效益，這得益於更高的計息餘額份額和在我們持續的平台化努力的支持下，服務成本的穩步下降。

Both markets demonstrate the strength and adaptability of our model, which is capable of driving rapid growth and scale in earlier stages while expanding profitability as market matures.

這兩個市場都證明了我們模式的實力和適應性，該模式能夠在早期階段推動快速成長和規模擴張，同時隨著市場成熟而擴大獲利能力。

Diving deeper into Mexico, our second S-curve, we see a market now beginning to scale and one that we expect will contribute meaningfully to our results in the years ahead. We're building strong foundations, having reached market leadership position in the Mexican digital banking space, already reaching 13 million customers or around 14% of the adult population compared with about 10% when Brazil entered its inflection point back in 2019.

深入研究墨西哥市場（我們的第二個 S 型曲線），我們看到該市場現在開始擴大規模，我們預計該市場將在未來幾年對我們的業績做出重大貢獻。我們正在打下堅實的基礎，在墨西哥數位銀行領域已佔據市場領導地位，客戶數量已達 1,300 萬，約佔成年人口的 14%，而巴西在 2019 年進入轉折點時，這一比例約為 10%。

Even with the product portfolio still largely centered on the credit card, ARPAC has already reached $12.5, reflecting strong customer engagement and the favorable unit economics of this product in Mexico. On the cost side, cost to serve is already below $1 and recent adjustments to deposit yields are beginning to flow through our cost of funding.

即使產品組合仍主要以信用卡為主，ARPAC 也已達到 12.5 美元，反映出墨西哥客戶參與度高，且產品的單位經濟效益良好。成本方面，服務成本已經低於 1 美元，最近存款收益率的調整也開始反映在我們的資金成本上。

Looking ahead, we'll continue stacking US curves with focus and discipline, while Brazil and Mexico remain our core priorities where most of our resources and execution efforts are directed. We also see transformational optionality in the US following our filing for a national bank charter, a step that could unlock new opportunities over time as we remain fully focused on our core markets. As we continue scaling across markets, we're also building the next generation of our platform, redefining how we operate and how customers experience banking.

展望未來，我們將繼續專注、有條不紊地推動美國市場的擴張，同時巴西和墨西哥仍然是我們的核心重點，我們將把大部分資源和執行力投入這兩個國家。我們已向美國提交了國家銀行牌照申請，這為我們在美國的業務發展帶來了變革性的機會。隨著我們繼續專注於核心市場，這項舉措有望在未來釋放新的發展潛力。在不斷拓展市場的同時，我們也在建構下一代平台，重新定義我們的營運模式以及客戶的銀行體驗。

We have heard several investors asking us about our AI strategy, and so we wanted to spend a few minutes on it. Our vision is to become AI-first, which means integrating foundation models deeply into our operations to drive an AI-native interface to banking, while creating meaningful benefits for both our customers and our business.

我們聽到一些投資者詢問我們的人工智慧策略，所以我們想花幾分鐘時間談談這個問題。我們的願景是成為人工智慧優先的企業，這意味著將基礎模型深度整合到我們的營運中，從而推動人工智慧原生銀行介面，同時為我們的客戶和業務創造有意義的利益。

For our customers, AI is enhancing our understanding of each individual and their financial needs, allowing us to deliver personalized recommendations, contextual offers and products and proactive insights at the right amount. It will also transform the way people interact with Nubank, be it through a simpler and seamless app or through a number of additional channels, embedding conversational user interfaces. We think there is a significant opportunity to include agentic workflows across most products and services, improving customer experiences across the board.

對於我們的客戶而言，人工智慧正在增強我們對每個客戶及其財務需求的了解，使我們能夠提供個人化的建議、符合情境的優惠和產品以及適量的主動洞察。它還將改變人們與 Nubank 互動的方式，無論是透過更簡單流暢的應用程序，還是透過嵌入對話式使用者介面的多個其他管道。我們認為，在大多數產品和服務中引入代理工作流程，能夠帶來巨大的機遇，從而全面提升客戶體驗。

For our business, AI is strengthening how we manage risk and scale efficiently. It is helping us to design safer and more precise financial solutions, reducing credit and fraud losses and enabling tailored collection strategies that drive better recoveries. At the same time, it is enhancing productivity across the company from leaner operations to faster development cycles and higher engineering throughput.

對我們的業務而言，人工智慧正在增強我們管理風險和高效擴展規模的能力。它幫助我們設計更安全、更精準的金融解決方案，減少信貸和詐欺損失，並實現量身定制的收款策略，從而提高回收率。同時，它也提高了整個公司的生產力，從更精簡的營運到更快的開發週期和更高的工程吞吐量。

When we bring all of this together, becoming AI-first means accelerating our flywheel by scaling to offer higher-quality products at lower costs, unlocking the full value of open finance, deepening cross-sell and product penetration and opening new revenue streams, all while optimizing pricing and delivering superior value for both customers and shareholders.

當我們把所有這些因素結合起來，成為人工智慧優先意味著透過擴大規模來加速我們的飛輪效應，從而以更低的成本提供更高品質的產品，釋放開放金融的全部價值，加深交叉銷售和產品滲透，並開闢新的收入來源，同時優化定價，為客戶和股東創造卓越價值。

But AI is not a buzzword for us. We believe Nubank is uniquely positioned to become AI-first and a leader in the use of AI in financial services globally, and we're already starting to see the first breakthroughs.

但人工智慧對我們來說並不是一個流行詞。我們相信 Nubank 擁有獨特的優勢，能夠成為全球金融服務領域人工智慧應用的先驅和領導者，而我們已經開始看到一些突破性進展。

Since our early days, we've known that technology and data will be our strongest competitive advantage, being cloud-native and built entirely on modern architecture enables us to simulate, experiment, train and deploy foundation models at scale. Coupled with our proven ability to attract world-class talent, this puts us ahead of incumbent banks and regional fintech competitors and places us in a unique position globally.

從公司成立之初，我們就知道技術和資料將是我們最強大的競爭優勢，雲端原生架構完全基於現代架構，使我們能夠大規模地模擬、試驗、訓練和部署基礎模型。憑藉我們吸引世界一流人才的卓越能力，這使我們領先於現有銀行和區域金融科技競爭對手，並使我們在全球範圍內處於獨特的地位。

Over the past 12 to 15 months, we developed NuFormer, our proprietary approach for building large generalizable models based on advanced transformer architectures and self-supervised learning principles, similar to those powering world-class LLMs. These models provide a deeper understanding of customer behaviors and can be deployed across our critical risk and personalization engines.

在過去的 12 到 15 個月裡，我們開發了 NuFormer，這是我們基於先進的 Transformer 架構和自監督學習原理構建大型通用模型的專有方法，類似於為世界一流的 LLM 提供支援的方法。這些模型能夠更深入地了解客戶行為，並可部署到我們關鍵的風險和個人化引擎。

To reach this level of performance, the first generation of our NuFormer model was built with 330 million parameters and trained on approximately 600 billion tokens, an unprecedented scale of data by financial industry standards. Yet that represents only a fraction of our full data set, which spans trillions of tokens and reflects the vast scale and diversity of Nubank's platform.

為了達到這樣的性能水平，我們的第一代 NuFormer 模型建立了 3.3 億個參數，並使用約 6000 億個代幣進行訓練，這在金融業標準中是前所未有的數據規模。但這只是我們完整資料集的一小部分，涵蓋數兆個代幣，反映了 Nubank 平台的巨大規模和多樣性。

Our business model with principality at its core generates a deep repository of high-quality transactional and behavioral data, giving us a distinctive edge by enabling NuFormer to learn from richer context and continuously strengthen its predictive power.

我們以公有為核心的商業模式，產生了大量高品質的交易和行為數據，使我們擁有獨特的優勢，使 NuFormer 能夠從更豐富的上下文中學習，並不斷增強其預測能力。

Historically, gains in credit performance have come from our main fronts, incorporating more and better data sources into models, expanding training samples or reducing bias within them, optimizing positive frameworks, including the use of complementary models that evaluate different dimensions of credit risk, and finally, refining modeling techniques from definition of targets to model architecture and feature engineering.

從歷史上看，信貸績效的提升主要來自我們的主要方面，包括將更多更好的資料來源納入模型，擴大訓練樣本或減少其中的偏差，優化積極的框架，包括使用評估信用風險不同維度的互補模型，以及最終改進從目標定義到模型架構和特徵工程的建模技術。

The adoption of foundation models represents a radical expansion of this last frontier. It brings a research-driven approach that moves the needle through advances in model architecture and training processes, enabling rapid and continuous improvement as AI researchers push the boundaries of what's possible.

基礎模型的採用代表著這最後前沿領域的根本性擴展。它帶來了一種研究驅動的方法，透過模型架構和訓練過程的進步來推動發展，隨著人工智慧研究人員不斷突破可能的界限，實現快速和持續的改進。

When we applied this approach, the models were built to deliver an average improvement about three times higher than what's typically observed in successful machine learning model upgrades. Translating this into business outcomes, our initial models enable a major upgrade to credit card limit policies in Brazil, allowing us to meaningfully increase limits for eligible customers while maintaining the same overall risk appetite.

當我們應用這種方法時，所建構的模型能夠實現比通常在成功的機器學習模型升級中觀察到的改進幅度高出約三倍的平均改進幅度。將此轉化為業務成果，我們的初始模型能夠對巴西的信用卡限額政策進行重大升級，使我們能夠在保持相同整體風險承受能力的同時，顯著提高符合條件的客戶的限額。

This successful breakthrough within an already robust underwriting model, like credit card Brazil, underscores the significant potential of these advanced approaches.

在巴西信用卡這種已經非常完善的核保模式下取得的成功突破，凸顯了這些先進方法的巨大潛力。

We're now focused on scaling this innovation beyond Brazil, already in motion in Mexico and extending them across every part of Nubank from personalization and cross-sell to fraud and collections, further reinforcing both the strength of our model and our ability to execute at scale.

我們現在專注於將這項創新推廣到巴西以外的地區，目前已在墨西哥啟動，並將推廣到 Nubank 的各個領域，從個性化和交叉銷售到欺詐和催收，進一步增強我們模式的優勢和大規模執行能力。

That said, we're still just scratching the surface. As always, at Nubank, it's still day one, but we believe that embedding AI into our business represents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to further differentiate Nubank from traditional banks.

也就是說，我們目前還只是略窺門徑。與以往一樣，Nubank 仍處於起步階段，但我們相信，將人工智慧融入我們的業務代表著千載難逢的機會，可以進一步使 Nubank 與傳統銀行區分開來。

We're building on years of experience in model governance, privacy and large-scale model deployment to ensure we continue evolving responsibly. This means having robust processes to make sure our tools truly promote our customers' financial well-being with the right guardrails in place to bring these advanced models safely into production within a highly regulated environment. We'll continue to share our progress as this journey evolves.

我們將依托多年在模型治理、隱私和大規模模型部署方面的經驗，確保我們能夠繼續以負責任的方式發展。這意味著要建立健全的流程，確保我們的工具能夠真正促進客戶的財務健康，並制定適當的保障措施，以便在高度監管的環境下安全地將這些先進模型投入生產。我們將繼續與大家分享這段旅程的進展。

And with that, I'll hand it over to Lago, our CFO, to walk you through the financial highlights of the quarter. Thanks a lot.

接下來，我將把麥克風交給我們的財務長拉戈，讓他為大家介紹本季的財務亮點。多謝。

Thank you, David, and good evening, everyone. To begin, I'd like to start with our credit portfolio. Total balances reached $30.4 billion in the third quarter, up 42% year-over-year on an FX-neutral basis, with very solid growth across all products.

謝謝你，大衛，大家晚上好。首先，我想先從我們的信貸組合談起。第三季總餘額達到 304 億美元，按匯率中性計算年增 42%，所有產品均實現了非常穩健的成長。

Credit cards accelerated during the quarter, supported by our ability to continuously enhance the precision of our credit models and increased limits for our customers, all while maintaining very healthy risk metrics as we will see in the following slides. At the same time, secure lending grew 133% and unsecured loans 63% year-over-year, reflecting the ongoing diversification and maturation of our portfolio.

本季信用卡業務加速成長，這得益於我們不斷提高信用模型的精確度，並提高了客戶的信用額度，同時保持了非常健康的風險指標，我們將在後面的幻燈片中看到這一點。同時，擔保貸款年增 133%，無擔保貸款年增 63%，反映出我們投資組合的持續多元化和成熟。

Together, secured and unsecured loans now account for nearly 35% of total balances, up from 27% a year ago. This reinforces our capacity to broaden the credit spectrum and serve a wider range of customers' needs over time.

目前，有擔保貸款和無擔保貸款合計佔總餘額的近 35%，高於一年前的 27%。這將增強我們擴大信貸範圍、滿足更廣泛客戶需求的能力。

Moving to loan originations. We reached a record high of $4.2 billion in the quarter, up 40% year-over-year on an FX-neutral basis with growth coming from both unsecured and secured lending.

轉向貸款發放業務。本季我們創下了 42 億美元的歷史新高，以匯率中性計算年增 40%，成長來自無擔保貸款和擔保貸款。

In unsecured lending, performance was supported by the strong momentum in our SME portfolio and by new credit policies introduced for both business and individual customers. These updates are enabling us to safely expand eligibility and increase average loan sizes while keeping new originations more concentrated in lower risk segments. In secure lending, results were driven by strong originations in public payroll loans or Consignado, which grew nearly 130% year-over-year along with a gradual normalization of INSS loans.

在無擔保貸款方面，中小企業貸款組合的強勁成長勢頭以及為企業和個人客戶推出的新信貸政策支撐了業績。這些更新使我們能夠在確保安全的前提下擴大貸款資格範圍並提高平均貸款規模，同時將新增貸款更集中在風險較低的領域。在安全貸款方面，業績主要得益於公共薪資貸款或 Consignado 的強勁成長，年增近 130%，同時 INSS 貸款也逐步恢復正常。

Now turning to deposits. Our balances reached $38.8 billion, up 34% year-over-year on an FX-neutral basis, while the cost of funding actually improved from 91% to 89% of interbank rates. This is a clear demonstration of our ability to grow volumes while enhancing efficiency, continuing to build a scalable and sustainable funding franchise across Latin America. In Colombia, deposits continued to grow steadily, even with funding costs below the interbank rate. In Brazil, we saw strong inflows across all segments, reinforcing the depth and the resilience of our deposit franchise.

現在來看存款。我們的餘額達到 388 億美元，以匯率中性計算年增 34%，而融資成本實際上從銀行間利率的 91% 改善至 89%。這清楚地表明了我們在提高效率的同時擴大業務量的能力，並繼續在拉丁美洲建立可擴展和可持續的融資業務。在哥倫比亞，即使融資成本低於銀行間利率，存款仍持續穩定成長。在巴西，我們看到各領域的資金流入強勁，這增強了我們存款業務的深度和韌性。

And in Mexico, we had anticipated some outflows following the recent reduction in deposit yields. This was a deliberate move that reduced our consolidated funding cost, and this was fully aligned with both our expectations and our long-term strategy for sustainable growth. Recent trends in Mexico reinforce our confidence in our ability to continue expanding and strengthening our deposit franchise.

在墨西哥，由於近期存款收益率下降，我們預期會出現一些資金外流。這是有意為之，旨在降低我們的綜合融資成本，這完全符合我們的預期以及我們實現永續成長的長期策略。墨西哥近期的發展趨勢增強了我們對自身能力的信心，我們有能力繼續擴大和加強存款業務。

Moving to net interest income. We reached $2.3 billion in the quarter, up 32% year-over-year on an FX-neutral basis, driven again by the continued expansion of our credit portfolio.

轉入淨利息收入。本季我們達到 23 億美元，以匯率中性計算年增 32%，這再次得益於我們信貸組合的持續擴張。

Net interest margins contracted by about 40 basis points from the prior quarter. This reflects our disciplined approach to optimizing risk-adjusted returns as we continue to expand originations in lower risk segments, including in credit card interest-earning portfolios, unsecured loans also to lower-risk individuals and higher shares of SME and secured loans within our total interest-earning portfolio. While some of these products carry lower nominal yields, they strengthen the portfolio's overall quality and resilience over time, as you can see in the next slide.

淨利差較上一季收窄約 40 個基點。這反映了我們為優化風險調整後收益而採取的嚴謹方法，我們將繼續擴大在低風險領域的貸款發放，包括信用卡利息收入組合、面向低風險個人的無擔保貸款，以及在我們總利息收入組合中中小企業貸款和擔保貸款的更高比例。雖然其中一些產品的名目收益率較低，但正如您在下一張幻燈片中看到的那樣，它們會隨著時間的推移增強投資組合的整體品質和韌性。

Our credit portfolio continues to outperform our expectations, supported by disciplined underwriting and a healthy mix shift towards customers and products with stronger risk-adjusted returns. Combined with better recoveries, these factors drove a 7% decline in credit loss allowance expenses quarter-over-quarter, also on an FX-neutral basis, mainly reflecting lower provisions in our two largest products, namely credit cards and unsecured loans. As a result of this lower cost of credit, our risk-adjusted net interest margins expanded to 9.9% in the quarter, underscoring the resilience and the quality of our portfolio.

在嚴格的承銷和向風險調整後收益更高的客戶和產品進行健康組合調整的支持下，我們的信貸組合繼續超出預期。加上回收情況的改善，這些因素推動信貸損失準備金支出環比下降 7%（以匯率中性計算），主要反映出我們兩大產品（即信用卡和無擔保貸款）的撥備減少。由於信貸成本降低，本季我們的風險調整後淨利差擴大至 9.9%，凸顯了我們投資組合的韌性和品質。

Next, looking at delinquency metrics for our consumer credit portfolio in Brazil. The 15- to 90-day NPL ratio remained well within expectations, ending the quarter at 4.2%, slightly below the historical third-quarter seasonality. The 90-plus day NPL ratio increased marginally to 6.8%, also very much in line with the expected seasonality and the underlying portfolio dynamics.

接下來，我們來看看我們在巴西的消費信貸組合的違約指標。15 至 90 天不良貸款率維持在預期範圍內，本季末為 4.2%，略低於歷史第三季的季節性水準。逾期 90 天以上的不良貸款率略微上升至 6.8%，這也與預期的季節性和潛在的投資組合動態非常吻合。

Now finally, our coverage ratios remained solid, even though they declined modestly in line with the recent movements in credit loss allowance. We continue to maintain what we believe to be a quite robust provision buffer both over the total portfolio and specifically over the 90-plus day NPL balances.

最後，儘管我們的賠付率隨著近期信貸損失準備金的變動而略有下降，但總體而言，我們的賠付率仍然保持穩健。我們繼續保持我們認為相當穩健的撥備緩衝，無論是在整個投資組合中，還是在超過 90 天的不良貸款餘額中。

Moving to gross profit. We delivered another quarter of solid growth, reaching $1.8 billion, up 32% year-over-year, also on an FX-neutral basis. The expansion in gross profit margin now to 43.5% reflects the consistent top-line growth, combined with the continued improvement in the risk-adjusted performance that we saw in the prior slide.

轉為毛利。我們又實現了穩健成長，營收達到 18 億美元，年增 32%（以匯率中立計算）。毛利率擴大至 43.5%，反映了營收的持續成長，以及我們在上一張投影片中看到的風險調整後績效的持續改善。

These trends reinforce the sustainability and the scalability of our business model as we continue to balance growth, profitability and risk discipline across the three markets in which we operate. In the third quarter, our efficiency ratio decreased slightly to 27.7%, reflecting continued progress in productivity and operating leverage. Yet, we will continue to invest intentionally and strategically to become the largest and the most loved retail financial institution in Latin America.

這些趨勢強化了我們商業模式的可持續性和可擴展性，我們將繼續在我們營運的三個市場中平衡成長、獲利能力和風險控制。第三季度，我們的效率比率略微下降至 27.7%，反映出生產力和經營槓桿作用的持續進步。但是，我們將繼續進行有計劃、有策略性的投資，力爭成為拉丁美洲規模最大、最受歡迎的零售金融機構。

These investments are fully aligned with our long-term value creation strategy, even if they sometimes create short-term pressures on costs. That all said, the structural trend remains clear, as we scale, revenue growth and disciplined cost management will continue to drive efficiency gains and margins expansion.

這些投資完全符合我們的長期價值創造策略，即使它們有時會在短期內給成本帶來壓力。綜上所述，結構性趨勢仍然清晰，隨著規模的擴大，收入成長和嚴格的成本管理將繼續推動效率提升和利潤率擴張。

Now to wrap up, we delivered a record high net income of $783 million and a record ROE of 31%, up 39% year-over-year, also on an FX-neutral basis. We achieved these results while we continue to deliver strong operational growth, always putting our customer at the very center of everything that we do, offering better products, lower fees and an exceptional experience. These results once again highlight the strength and the scalability of our model as well as our ability to combine growth with profitability.

最後總結一下，我們實現了創紀錄的淨收入 7.83 億美元和創紀錄的淨資產收益率 31%，年增 39%（以匯率為中性計算）。我們在保持強勁營運成長的同時取得了這些成果，並始終將客戶放在我們一切工作的中心，提供更好的產品、更低的費用和卓越的體驗。這些結果再次凸顯了我們模型的優勢和可擴展性，以及我們將成長與獲利能力結合的能力。

Now with that, we will open the call for questions. Thank you.

現在，我們將開始接受提問。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Guilherme Souto, Investor Relations Officer.

（操作員指示）現在我將把電話交給投資者關係官吉列爾梅·索托先生。

Thank you, operator. Could you please open the line for Mr. Yuri Fernandes from JPMorgan?

謝謝接線生。請您接通摩根大通的尤里‧費爾南德斯先生的電話。

Congrats on delivering. I think the debate from investors here, I'd love to hear your thoughts, David, are related to your provisions, Lago. Your cost of risk was lower. I think you are doing a risk migration, right, growing more middle income in Brazil, growing more secured lending. When we check your new Stage 3 formation, new Stage 3 formation improved.

恭喜你完成任務。拉戈，我覺得投資人的討論，我很想聽聽你的看法，大衛，都與你的準備金有關。你的風險成本更低。我認為你們正在進行風險轉移，對吧？在巴西發展更多中等收入群體，發展更多擔保貸款。當我們檢查您的新第三階段陣型時，發現新第三階段陣型有所改善。

But I guess investors, they will try to understand the lower provisions this quarter that helped on EBIT. So if you can like provide some explanation for investors to understand what drove this lower provision, I think this will help with the understanding for the quarter. Thank you very much, and congrats again.

但我認為投資者會試圖理解本季較低的撥備對息稅前利潤 (EBIT) 的幫助。所以，如果您能向投資者解釋一下導致撥備減少的原因，我認為這將有助於他們理解本季的情況。非常感謝，再次恭喜。

No, thanks, Yuri, for the question. Yes. I think asset quality has been positive over the past two quarters. I think this quarter, we have also seen kind of asset quality performing as per expectation, even it's likely better than expectations.

不，謝謝你的提問，尤里。是的。我認為過去兩個季度資產品質表現良好。我認為本季，資產品質的表現也符合預期，甚至可能優於預期。

We have also had some effects of the policies that we have intensified over the past now three to four quarters of reactivating customers in Brazil who had defaulted with us a few years ago and only now after they have cured their debt, we are also kind of offering them additional credit opportunity that has materially improved the recovery levels.

過去三到四個季度，我們加強了對巴西客戶的政策，這些客戶幾年前曾拖欠我們的債務，現在他們已經償清了債務，我們也為他們提供了額外的信貸機會，這顯著提高了他們的回收率。

And then finally, we actually have seen, through both machine learning, but also the predictive AI technology and modeling that David alluded, the ability to actually have greater precision in some of the credit modeling techniques. So what you have seen is kind of asset quality performing in line or even better, but it's still, if I would now draw your attention, Yuri, to, let me go here, slide 17, you see that the coverage ratio that we continue to have are at levels that we believe to be fairly robust in both the total balance as well as NPL 90-plus.

最後，我們確實透過機器學習以及大衛提到的預測性人工智慧技術和建模，看到了在某些信用建模技術中實現更高精確度的能力。所以，你們看到的是資產品質表現良好甚至更好，但是，尤里，我現在請你注意一下，讓我轉到這裡，第 17 張幻燈片，你會看到，我們持續保持的覆蓋率水平，我們認為無論是總餘額還是不良貸款 90 歲以上，都相當穩健。

Now let's see how it goes, but we are also kind of in the mid of the fourth quarter of 2024 now, it's November 13. And we continue to see asset quality performing relatively okay. So that's kind of the main background for the evolution of our CLA this quarter.

現在讓我們看看情況如何，但我們現在也差不多到了 2024 年第四季中期，今天是 11 月 13 日。我們看到資產品質表現依然相對良好。這就是我們本季 CLA 發展的主要背景。

No. Super clear, Lago. Thank you and congrats again.

不。湖水清澈見底。謝謝，再次恭喜你。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Jorge Kuri from Morgan Stanley.

接線員，請您接通摩根士丹利的豪爾赫·庫裡先生的電話。

Congrats on the numbers. Great results. My question is around your net interest margin. I heard what Lago said about the mix of credit being responsible for the decline in NIM. I'm looking at just the nominal numbers, and your interest income was up 14% quarter-on-quarter versus a loan book in total that was up 11%. So it doesn't seem that you're growing your income less than the assets, which would be sort of like a signal of mix deterioration. It's actually the other way around.

恭喜你取得這樣的成績。效果顯著。我的問題是關於你們的淨利差。我聽到了拉戈關於信貸組合導致淨利差下降的說法。我只看名義數字，你的利息收入環比增長了 14%，而貸款總額環比增長了 11%。所以看起來你的收入成長速度並沒有低於資產成長速度，這有點像是資產組合惡化的訊號。事實恰恰相反。

But on the flip side, your interest expense was up 24% quarter-on-quarter versus your deposits up 6%. And so you talked about the cost of deposits coming down, but it's just in this -- in dollar numbers, it's kind of like doesn't add up. And so I'm just wondering if you can walk us through these dynamics and exactly what explains that NIM contraction.

但另一方面，您的利息支出較上月增加了 24%，而您的存款僅增加了 6%。所以你談到了存款成本下降的問題，但就美元數字而言，這似乎並不合理。所以我想知道您能否為我們解釋一下這些動態，以及究竟是什麼導致了 NIM 收縮。

Sure, Jorge. Look, two things on this. So first on the revenue and then on the cost. I think on the revenue side, we have seen the growth being kind of more heavily weighted into less risky assets, not only asset classes per se. For example, you can see that, if you go to slide 12, you can see that, for example, secured lending has outpaced the rest of the portfolio. Secured assets has no, everything else constant, lower kind of yield levels. But even within lending and within credit card, Jorge, we are seeing kind of a faster growth on a balanced basis towards less risky customers that would have, all else equal, kind of lower yields.

當然可以，豪爾赫。聽著，關於這件事有兩點要說。所以先看收入，再看成本。我認為，從收入方面來看，我們看到成長更集中在風險較低的資產上，而不僅僅是資產類別本身。例如，如果您查看第 12 張投影片，可以看到，例如，擔保貸款的成長速度超過了投資組合中的其他部分。在其他條件不變的情況下，擔保資產的收益率通常較低。但豪爾赫，即使在貸款和信用卡領域，我們也看到，風險較低的客戶群正以較為均衡的方式實現更快的成長，而這些客戶在其他條件相同的情況下，收益率通常會較低。

So that is one of the things that would justify, but you correctly pointed out that we have also seen an increase in interest expenses, and that has come entirely from Brazil. So our average funding cost in Brazil has gone up and the average funding cost in Mexico and Colombia have been coming down.

所以這是其中一個可以解釋的原因，但你正確地指出，我們也看到利息支出增加，而這完全來自巴西。因此，我們在巴西的平均融資成本上升了，而在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的平均融資成本則下降了。

When we look at the average funding cost that we published on slide 14, you will see kind of the -- what we call the cost of deposits as a percentage of the interbank rate going from 91% to 89%. And they may call the question, why, how do I kind of connect the dots, right?

當我們查看第 14 張投影片上公佈的平均融資成本時，你會看到我們稱之為存款成本佔銀行間利率百分比的東西從 91% 下降到 89%。他們可能會問，為什麼，我該如何把這些點連起來，對吧？

If you are lowering the cost of funding as a percent -- expressed as a percentage of interbank rates, how can your cost of funding expressed in dollars be going up? It's because the piece that is going up is the piece denominated in Brazilian reais, which is subject to the nominally higher interest rates of SELIC of 15%. So the weighted average cost of fund expressed as a percentage of the interbank deposit rate, which is what you see here on slide 14, has come down. But the overall interest expenses, dollar-wise, has gone up a little bit.

如果你降低了以銀行間利率百分比表示的融資成本，那麼以美元表示的融資成本怎麼可能上升呢？這是因為上漲的部分是以巴西雷亞爾計價的部分，而巴西雷亞爾的利率是 SELIC 的 15%，名目利率較高。因此，以銀行間存款利率的百分比表示的加權平均資金成本（即您在第 14 張投影片上看到的內容）已經下降。但以美元計算，整體利息支出略有上升。

So the combination of lower asset yield because of the mix with a slightly more expensive funding base in Brazil has compressed net interest margins in the quarter, which is what you see on slide 15 that has gone from 17.7% to 17.3%.

因此，由於資產組合的變動導致資產收益率下降，加上巴西融資成本略高，導致本季淨利差收窄，正如您在第 15 張投影片中看到的那樣，淨利差已從 17.7% 降至 17.3%。

What I would, however, point out is, when you're taking into account the asset quality or the cost of risk, you actually see an expansion in margin. And that is what is shown on the subsequent slide, which is slide 16. Our risk-adjusted margin has actually gone up from 9.2% to 9.9%, which goes to show that even though we have kind of increased the growth towards less risky assets that has come at the expense of slightly lower asset yield, this has been more than offset by much lower cost of risk, which has led to the expansion of risk-adjusted NIMs.

不過，我想指出的是，當你考慮到資產品質或風險成本時，你實際上會看到利潤率的擴大。這就是下一張投影片（第 16 張投影片）上顯示的內容。我們的風險調整後利潤率實際上從 9.2% 上升到 9.9%，這表明，儘管我們以略微降低資產收益率為代價，增加了對風險較低資產的增長，但這已被風險成本大幅降低所抵消，從而導致了風險調整後淨息差的擴大。

All right, Lago. Thank you very much. That was very clear. And if you remind my follow-up on the previous question, on provisions. You mentioned recoveries stronger than expected. Would you mind quantifying that and what impact it had on the combined provision number?

好的，拉戈。非常感謝。這一點非常清楚。如果您還記得我之前關於條款問題的後續問題。你提到復甦勢頭強於預期。您能否量化一下這個數字，以及它對合併撥備金額的影響？

We are not disclosing this one-off impact, Jorge. It's basically the additional of the recoveries, mostly from the customers that we reactivated over the past now three quarters.

豪爾赫，我們不會透露這起一次性事件的影響。基本上，這是新增的回收款項，主要來自我們在過去三個季度重新激活的客戶。

This is a program that we have done by kind of offering a second chance to customers who defaulted to us a few years ago, have completely kind of paid down their debt, and then we have seen that out of those customers, the recovery has been higher than we had booked for. But we are not disclosing the exact breakdown of the additional recovery coming from this program.

這是我們推行的一項計劃，旨在為幾年前違約的客戶提供第二次機會，讓他們能夠完全償還債務。我們發現，這些客戶的還款率高於我們的預期。但我們不會透露該計劃帶來的額外收益的具體明細。

All right, understood. Thanks again and congrats on the numbers.

好的，明白了。再次感謝，也恭喜你們取得了這樣的成績。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Pedro Leduc from Itau BBA.

接線員，請您為來自 Itau BBA 的 Pedro Leduc 先生接通電話。

If I may, on credit cards, please. Last quarter, we saw a big increase in newly granted limits. And this quarter, we may be seeing some of the effects here. There's more cards active, more cards generating revenues, transaction volumes, the cards seem to be going up.

如果可以的話，請用信用卡付款。上個季度，我們看到新授予的額度大幅增加。而本季度，我們或許已經看到了一些影響。活躍的信用卡數量更多，產生收入的信用卡數量更多，交易量也更大，信用卡數量似乎正在上升。

Can you talk a little bit more about how you're seeing this rollout perform on the ground? It looks like you did another small increase now in 3Q. If you can talk about that as well.

您能否再詳細談談您觀察到的這項推廣活動在實際執行上的效果如何？看來你們在第三季又小幅加薪了。如果你也能談談這方面的話。

And I think it may tie up also to the -- what we're seeing in the stages and the probabilities. It seems like this growth is coming from slightly better quality mix. If you can also include that. I know it's a longer question, but I think you get the spirit. Thank you.

我認為這也可能與我們在各個階段和機率中看到的情況有關。這種增長似乎源自於混合物品質的略微提升。如果可以的話，也請把那部分也加上去。我知道這個問題比較長，但我相信你能明白我的意思。謝謝。

Sure, Leduc. Thanks for the question. So look, we announced a relatively large credit limit increase program in the second quarter of 2025. And the rollout of that credit limit program was spread roughly one-third in the second quarter, one-third in the third quarter and one-third expected to be finalized in the fourth quarter. So we have not yet seen the full effects of that CLIP program materializing in the financial performance of the company. It's something that we will only see in full most likely towards the mid and end of 2026 because it takes some time for limits to converge into PV and for PVs to converge into IBB. So there's some leeway there as well.

當然，勒杜克。謝謝你的提問。所以你看，我們在 2025 年第二季宣布了一項規模較大的信用額度提升計劃。這項信用額度計畫的推出大致分為三部分：三分之一在第二季度，三分之一在第三季度，還有三分之一預計將在第四季度完成。因此，我們尚未看到CLIP計劃對公司財務表現的全面影響。我們很可能要到 2026 年中後期才能完全看到這一點，因為極限需要一些時間才能收斂到 PV，PV 也需要一些時間才能收斂到 IBB。所以這方面也有一定的迴旋餘地。

Second point, Leduc, you're right to think a substantial portion of the credit limit was granted to less risky customers. And so kind of the average unit of risk that we have added has actually lowered over time. However, as we increase the limits to kind of lower-risk customers, we also decreased the flip side, the utilization, right? So I think if you have BRL1,000 limits and we increased this by 20%, you would experience much higher utilization than if you have BRL100,000 limits and we increased this by 10%, but both the utilization as well as the credit performance related to this credit limit increase have now both performed largely per our expectations.

第二點，Leduc，你的想法是對的，相當一部分信用額度授予了風險較低的客戶。因此，我們增加的平均風險單位實際上隨著時間的推移而降低了。但是，當我們提高對低風險客戶的限額時，我們也降低了另一方面，即利用率，對吧？所以我認為，如果你的信用額度是 1,000 雷亞爾，我們將其提高了 20%，那麼你的信用額度使用率會比信用額度是 100,000 雷亞爾，我們將其提高了 10% 的情況高得多。但是，無論是信用額度提高後的使用率，或是信用表現，現在都基本上符合我們的預期。

So nothing that deviates or forces us to revisit, both from the offensive as well as on the defensive side, the pace and intensity of those movements. Now even though we did disclose in the second quarter that we saw a big CLIP, a credit limit increase, I don't think we should see this as a one-off, right? This is really a continuous enhancement of the programs that will not be kind of a straight line, but we will see kind of CLIP programs being introduced from time to time. This is what we've seen over the past years.

所以，沒有什麼能改變或迫使我們重新審視進攻和防守兩方面的節奏和強度。雖然我們在第二季度披露了信用額度大幅提高（CLIP），但我認為我們不應該將其視為一次性事件，對吧？這實際上是對現有專案進行持續改進的過程，不會是一條直線，但我們會看到一些 CLIP 專案會不時推出。這就是我們過去幾年所看到的。

And then if you go, Leduc, to what David mentioned at the beginning of his session about the implications of the predictive AI modelings to our credit underwriting, I would say that, first, we have introduced this to credit limit increases that has not yet been introduced to releases, by which I mean we have been able to sharpen how we increase credit limits of existing customers.

然後，Leduc，如果你回到David在會議開始時提到的關於預測性人工智慧模型對我們信貸承保的影響，我想說，首先，我們已經將其引入到信用額度提高中，而尚未引入到貸款發放中，我的意思是，我們已經能夠改進我們提高現有客戶信用額度的方式。

We have not yet applied this to the determination of the new customers to which we granted the initial line, which we call customer acquisition. We have also not introduced this to lending. And we have not introduced this to Mexico and Colombia. So I think there's still quite a lot of runways for us to see further improvements and enhancements in our credit underwriting performance.

我們尚未將此應用於確定我們授予初始信用額度的新客戶，我們稱之為客戶獲取。我們也沒有將此引入貸款業務。我們尚未將這項技術引進墨西哥和哥倫比亞。所以我認為，我們在信貸承銷績效方面還有很大的提升空間。

Thank you very much. Congrats.

非常感謝。恭喜。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Mario Pierry from Bank of America.

接線員，請您接通美國銀行的馬裡奧·皮埃里先生的電話。

Congrats on the results. Let me double-click a little bit on Mexico and Mexico ARPAC of $12.50 that you're showing, and which is a quite impressive number, right, especially given that Mexico is fairly new for you and the ARPAC is almost similar to Brazil.

恭喜取得好成績。讓我再仔細看看你展示的墨西哥和墨西哥亞太地區市場（ARPAC）的 12.50 美元，這是一個相當令人印象深刻的數字，對吧，特別是考慮到墨西哥對你來說是一個相當新的市場，而且 ARPAC 幾乎與巴西相似。

Can you give us like a little bit more details on the breakdown of this ARPAC between interest income and fees? And I ask this, right, because we saw the regulator in Mexico now proposing a cap on card interchange fees. So I was wondering what is your view on that? And how much that could impact your results in Mexico.

您能否更詳細說明ARPAC中利息收入和手續費的組成？我之所以這樣問，是因為我們看到墨西哥的監管機構現在提議為信用卡交換費設定上限。所以我想知道你對此有何看法？這會對你在墨西哥的比賽結果產生多大影響？

Also staying with Mexico, you only give us data, right, the NPL data and coverage data for Brazil operations only. I was wondering if you could share any asset quality metrics from Mexico, that would be helpful. Thank you.

另外，關於墨西哥，你們只提供我們數據，對嗎？只有巴西業務的不良貸款數據和覆蓋範圍數據。我想請問您能否分享一些墨西哥的資產品質指標，這將會很有幫助。謝謝。

Sure, Mario. Let me try to address each of those questions, and feel free to follow up if I miss any of them. So I think on Mexico, you mentioned about the evolution of the customer in ARPAC and cost to serve. And I would draw your and the attention of the others to slide 7, where you can see the evolution of our customers in Mexico. It's now about 13 million customers, accounts for roughly 14%, 15% of the adult population of Mexico, but accounting for now nearly 25% of the bank population in Mexico.

當然可以，馬裡奧。讓我盡量回答這些問題，如果我遺漏了任何一點，請隨時跟進。所以我覺得關於墨西哥，你提到了亞太地區客戶的演變以及服務成本。請各位注意第 7 張投影片，您可以在那裡看到我們在墨西哥的客戶的發展歷程。目前，該銀行擁有約 1,300 萬客戶，約佔墨西哥成年人口的 14% 至 15%，但佔墨西哥銀行客戶總數的近 25%。

So we can easily say now that about one out of every four banked Mexicans are customers of Nubank, which makes us quite excited. And then as you said, you see kind of the ARPAC evolution in Mexico. Most of them are kind of interest related, both from credit card lending and floating from our deposit base. The fees, the interchange related to both credit cards and debit cards, account for a smaller portion of the overall ARPAC.

所以我們現在可以很肯定地說，每四個擁有銀行帳戶的墨西哥人中就有一個是 Nubank 的客戶，這讓我們非常興奮。正如你所說，你可以看到ARPAC在墨西哥的演變。其中大部分都與利息有關，包括信用卡貸款和存款利息。與信用卡和金融卡相關的手續費和交換費在 ARPAC 中佔比較小。

That said, Mario, I think you alluded to the public consultation that the Mexican government has recently issued aimed at capping the interchanges of both credit cards and debit cards in Mexico. We have, since this kind of came out, been in very active dialog with other industry participants and with the government itself. And even though that accounts for the smaller portion of our revenues, we are concerned with the idea of caps and price control there because they may actually inhibit the financial inclusion and credit deepening than we have seen in Brazil and other countries as they make the unit economics of new-to-credit customers less compelling.

也就是說，馬裡奧，我想你指的是墨西哥政府最近發布的公眾諮詢，旨在限制墨西哥境內信用卡和金融卡的交易量。自從此事發生以來，我們一直與業內其他參與者以及政府本身進行非常積極的對話。儘管這部分收入占我們總收入的較小比例，但我們仍然對那裡的消費上限和價格管制感到擔憂，因為它們實際上可能會抑制金融包容性和信貸深化，而我們在巴西和其他國家看到的金融包容性和信貸深化程度卻不如巴西和其他國家，因為它們降低了新信用客戶的單位經濟效益。

So we are kind of in active discussions with all of the industry participants. We are very confident that kind of we will be able to find together as an industry to a good balance that will not put at risk our ability to promote, together with other fintechs, the financial inclusion in Mexico over time.

所以我們正在與所有業內參與者進行積極的討論。我們非常有信心，作為一個行業，我們能夠共同找到一個良好的平衡點，不會危及我們與其他金融科技公司一起，隨著時間的推移，在墨西哥促進金融普惠的能力。

Mario, did I forget any of your questions?

馬裡奧，我漏掉你的什麼問題了嗎？

No, no, that's helpful. And then on the NPLs. And just to clarify, like when you say, right, that the fees are a smaller percentage, are we talking about like 15%, 20%. Any idea or new color you could give to us?

不，不，這很有幫助。然後是關於不良貸款的。為了澄清一下，例如您說費用比例較小，我們說的是 15% 還是 20% 呢？您有什麼想法或新的顏色可以提供給我們嗎？

No, we don't provide this breakdown. But I think if you take a look at the financial statements that we posted with the regulators in Mexico, you will largely get a good proxy of kind of the weight of each of those components for us.

不，我們不提供這種細分。但我認為，如果你看一下我們向墨西哥監管機構提交的財務報表，你就能大致了解這些組成部分對我們而言的權重。

But I think even if the, Mario, for example, let's assume that interchange account for a small portion. If you cap this in the magnitude that has been proposed by the government, the existing kind of business plan that we have, a significant portion of the new customers of the ones that we would bring from informality to the bank may be compromised, right?

但我認為，即使像馬裡奧那樣，假設換乘只佔很小一部分。如果按照政府提出的規模來限制，按照我們現有的商業計劃，那麼我們原本可以從非正規管道吸引到銀行的新客戶中，很大一部分可能會受到影響，對吧？

So we do believe that it's our obligation and duty to be able to share this very openly with the stakeholders in Mexico to continue to foster the competition and financial inclusion that we want to do so.

因此，我們認為，我們有義務和責任與墨西哥的利益相關者公開分享這些訊息，以繼續促進我們想要實現的競爭和金融包容性。

Okay. And the second part of my question was on the NPLs in Mexico. As Mexico becomes more relevant, right, like are you going to disclose the NPLs for the total group rather than just Brazil? And if you can make any comments on how that is behaving in Mexico and the coverage that you're seeing?

好的。我問題的第二部分是關於墨西哥的不良貸款。隨著墨西哥的重要性日益凸顯，你們是否會揭露整個集團的不良貸款情況，而不僅僅是巴西的？您能否就墨西哥的現狀以及您所看到的報導發表一些評論？

Yeah. No, absolutely. We do expect that as Mexico gains relevance in our overall credit portfolio, we will start providing kind of a much more granular disclosure on its asset quality. Today, it still accounts for less than 10%, 15% of our overall book, but we are certainly ready, able and willing to provide those levels of the disclosures. The asset quality and asset performance in Mexico overall has been a fairly good story for us. I think we spent the good part of 2023 and 2024 kind of sharpening the data stacks and the models.

是的。不，絕對的。我們預計，隨著墨西哥在我們整體信貸組合中的重要性日益提高，我們將開始對其資產品質進行更細緻的揭露。今天，這部分業務仍然只占我們總業務量的不到 10% 或 15%，但我們絕對已經做好準備，有能力並且願意提供這些水平的資訊揭露。整體而言，墨西哥的資產品質和資產表現對我們來說都相當不錯。我認為我們在 2023 年和 2024 年的大部分時間裡都在完善資料堆疊和模型。

And what you have seen over the past 12 to 18 months, it's a relatively strong acceleration of the growth of our credit book in Mexico, growing at a clip of about 50% to 70% on an annualized basis. But more than the top-line growth or the size of the book, the asset quality has performed very much in line, in some cases, even better than expected.

在過去的 12 到 18 個月裡，你們已經看到，我們在墨西哥的信貸業務成長速度相對較快，年增長率約為 50% 到 70%。但與營收成長或帳面規模相比，資產品質的表現更為出色，在某些情況下甚至優於預期。

Also, we have recently launched kind of a lending product in Mexico. We have been kind of working primarily with credit card. And lending has been doing really, really well in Mexico. I wouldn't be surprised if, differently from Brazil at some point in time, lending becomes an even bigger business for us in Mexico than credit cards.

此外，我們最近也在墨西哥推出了一種貸款產品。我們一直以來主要都是透過信用卡進行交易。墨西哥的貸款業務發展得非常好。如果墨西哥的貸款業務在某個時候比信用卡業務規模更大（這與巴西的情況不同），我不會感到驚訝。

So I would say, yes, the left side of the balance sheet has expanded nicely in both kind of quantum and quality. And then on the right side of the balance sheet, as you may have seen, Mario, we have been kind of sequentially redesigning and repricing deposits. It has led to a fairly substantial drop in cost of funding in Mexico. And still preserving what we see very intensively there, which is primary banking relationship, transactionality, activation. So for most of the customers, it has actually been going up. We are an all-time high of transactionality there.

所以我認為，是的，資產負債表的左側無論在規模還是品質上都得到了很好的擴展。然後，正如你可能已經看到的，馬裡奧，在資產負債表的右側，我們一直在逐步重新設計和重新定價存款。這導致墨西哥的融資成本大幅下降。同時，我們仍然保留著我們在那裡非常強烈地看到的，那就是主要的銀行關係、交易性和活化性。所以對大多數顧客來說，價格其實是上漲的。我們那裡的交易量達到了歷史最高水準。

So very excited with Mexico with what we're seeing. Still early days. But as David mentioned, it's playing out to be as strong, if not even stronger than Brazil.

看到墨西哥的種種變化，我們感到非常興奮。現在下結論還為時過早。但正如大衛所提到的，它的表現即便不如巴西，也至少和巴西一樣強勁。

Thank you a lot. It's very impressive how quickly and how profitable you're growing in Mexico.

非常感謝。你們在墨西哥的發展速度和獲利能力都令人印象深刻。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Marcelo Mizrahi from Bradesco BBI.

接線員，請您接通布拉德斯科BBI銀行的馬塞洛·米茲拉希先生的電話。

So my question is regarding the cost of risk again. So I understand what drives the cost of risk to go down. But as Lago has said, so about the campaign to recovery to bring back clients, so we are already seeing the number of active cards going up. So the question is, looking forward, this level of cost of risk, it seems that is the new level in the next quarters. So the growth of the NIM will come with this proportionality, so more from the cost of risk than from the net interest margin. Thank you.

所以我的問題仍然是關於風險成本的。所以我知道是什麼因素導致風險成本下降。但正如拉戈所說，關於恢復客戶的活動，我們已經看到活躍卡的數量正在上升。所以問題是，展望未來，這種風險成本水準似乎將成為未來幾季的新水準。因此，淨利差的成長將按比例實現，更多來自風險成本，而不是淨利差。謝謝。

So thanks for the question. I think it will -- in terms of NIMs, starting with the latter part of your question, it will be a function of both asset mix as well as LDR, right? So I think as we increase kind of -- we continue to increase the ratio and the weight of secured lending in our book, we could eventually see the continuous kind of lowering of the asset yield.

謝謝你的提問。我認為會的——就淨利差而言，從你問題的後半部分來看，它將取決於資產組合和負債比率，對嗎？所以我認為，隨著我們不斷提高擔保貸款在我們帳簿中的比例和權重，我們最終可能會看到資產收益率持續下降。

But as LDRs go up, we should expect to see kind of NIMs even expanding potentially. So it will depend on the velocity with which we increase kind of our credit assets versus the velocity with which we continue to increase deposits in both Brazil, Mexico and Colombia.

但隨著 LDR 的上升，我們應該會看到 NIM 甚至可能擴大。所以，這取決於我們增加信貸資產的速度與我們在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞繼續增加存款的速度之間的關係。

In terms of cost of risk, we don't provide guidance on cost of risk in the short or in the long term. What we have been doing, as you have followed us for some time, is we have been kind of measuring and managing the business with a paranoid focus on the short-term data that we collect on the margins. So far, the data has proven to be fairly encouraging and reassuring for us to continue to grow the book.

就風險成本而言，我們不提供短期或長期風險成本的指導。正如你們一段時間以來一直關注我們的情況一樣，我們一直在以一種近乎偏執的方式，專注於我們收集到的短期邊緣數據來衡量和管理業務。到目前為止，數據已經證明相當令人鼓舞，也讓我們有信心繼續擴充這本書的內容。

However, as we have done in the past, if and when we see any deterioration in asset quality across any of the segments, any of the products or any of the geos, we will not hesitate to pull the brakes, reassess, revisit whether we will go. So that's one of the reasons why we are so hesitant to provide kind of a guidance on both top line as well as cost of risk.

但是，正如我們過去所做的那樣，如果我們發現任何業務板塊、任何產品或任何地區的資產品質出現任何惡化，我們將毫不猶豫地踩下煞車，重新評估，重新考慮是否繼續推進。所以，這也是我們不願意就營收和風險成本提供指導的原因之一。

Can I just do a follow-up here on the LDR. So looking for the -- what is happening now in Mexico. So for me, it makes sense to see part of this profitability coming from the leverage of the portfolio. So on the LDR part. Are you guys seeing that already or not?

我可以再跟進一下關於長距離關係的問題嗎？所以，我想了解一下——墨西哥現在正在發生什麼事。所以對我來說，將部分獲利能力歸功於投資組合的槓桿作用是合理的。接下來是關於光敏電阻（LDR）部分的內容。你們已經看到這種情況了嗎？

Yes. Look, I think LDR in Mexico is about 15%. So certainly, it's in many respects, one of the most liquid financial institutions that we may have in the region.

是的。我認為墨西哥的異地戀比例大約是 15%。因此，從許多方面來看，它無疑是該地區流動性最強的金融機構之一。

Having said that, over the past two quarters, most of the expansion of NIMs in Mexico has come from the lowering of the cost of funding rather than any material changes in LDR. Going forward, however, I think that LDR will play a much bigger role than any material change in cost of funding.

話雖如此，在過去的兩個季度裡，墨西哥淨投資市場 (NIM) 的擴張主要來自融資成本的降低，而不是貸款揭露率 (LDR) 的任何實質變化。但展望未來，我認為低密度脂蛋白（LDR）將比融資成本的任何實質變化發揮更大的作用。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Thiago Batista from UBS.

接線生，請您接通瑞銀集團的蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔先生的電話。

Congratulations for the results. I have one question, actually, one question divided into two, about regulation. The first part of the question is about mortgage. With the recent change in regulation on saving deposits and mortgage in Brazil, do you believe it is possible to start to operate in this market in the near future? And second, on the FGTS loans, with the change that we saw, probably one month ago or less than that, do you believe that FGTS loans will be reduced in a material way?

恭喜取得好成績。我其實有一個問題，或者說一個分成兩個的問題，是關於監管的。問題的第一部分是關於抵押貸款的。鑑於巴西近期對儲蓄存款和抵押貸款的監管政策進行了調整，您認為在不久的將來有可能開始在這個市場開展業務嗎？其次，關於 FGTS 貸款，鑑於我們可能在一個月前或更短時間內看到的變化，您是否認為 FGTS 貸款會大幅減少？

Thank you for your question. So we've looked at the mortgage space in Brazil, and certainly, there are a number of attractive angles, specifically around principality. But it's not a priority for us right now. It's not a product that I see ourselves really doing over the next couple of years. The main reason for that is we think about our balance sheet fundamentally as a small balance sheet that is well capitalized that has very high velocity and very high return on equity.

謝謝你的提問。我們已經考察了巴西的抵押貸款市場，當然，其中有很多吸引人的地方，尤其是在本金方面。但這目前並非我們的首要任務。我認為未來幾年我們不太可能推出這款產品。主要原因是，我們從根本上來說，將我們的資產負債表定位為規模較小但資本充足、週轉速度快、淨資產收益率高的資產負債表。

So from that perspective, we're going to be picking products, especially credit products that have short duration, very data-intensive that gives us the opportunity to react very quickly to changing macroeconomic environments and that maintains -- it gives us a lot of agility.

因此，從這個角度來看，我們將選擇期限短、數據密集的產品，特別是信貸產品，這使我們能夠對不斷變化的宏觀經濟環境做出快速反應，從而保持——這給了我們很大的靈活性。

And obviously, mortgages is kind of the opposite of that. It's very long-term duration, removes a lot of agility. It requires a lot of long-term funding. So it doesn't really match with the type of products that we want to be offering directly from the balance sheet. And perhaps down the road, there might be an opportunity to partner with somebody to actually do it, but it's not something that we'll be prioritizing right now.

很顯然，抵押貸款的情況恰恰相反。持續時間非常長，會大大降低靈活性。這需要大量的長期資金投入。所以它與我們希望直接從資產負債表上提供的產品類型並不完全匹配。或許未來有機會與他人合作這項工作，但這不是我們目前的優先事項。

On FGTS regulation, yes, I think the regulation would have a decrease of our FGTS originations. But given the size of the portfolio and the rest of the lending products that we offer, it wouldn't really be material. So yes, effect on FGTS, but not really a material effect overall on the portfolio growth.

關於 FGTS 監管，是的，我認為監管會減少我們的 FGTS 發行量。但考慮到投資組合的規模以及我們提供的其他貸款產品，這實際上並不會造成實質的影響。所以，是的，這對FGTS有影響，但對整體投資組合成長並沒有實質影響。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Gustavo Schroden from Citi.

接線員，請您接通花旗銀行的古斯塔沃·施羅登先生的電話。

Congrats on the results. Thanks for the call. Most of my questions were answered. So let me do a follow-up here. The first one is, I'd like to understand better the asset quality. Indeed, the bit was on the lower ECL. So despite this some metrics like 90 days NPLs relatively stable and early NPLs improving, when we analyze the transfers to Stage 3 in both credit cards and loans, it is continually increasing, right? I mean, it's rising.

恭喜取得好成績。謝謝你的來電。我的大部分問題都得到了解答。讓我再補充一點。首先，我想更了解資產品質。事實上，該位位於較低的 ECL 上。儘管一些指標（例如 90 天不良貸款率相對穩定，早期不良貸款率有所改善）顯示不良貸款率有所下降，但當我們分析信用卡和貸款的第三階段轉入情況時，會發現轉入第三階段的案例卻在不斷增加，對吧？我的意思是，它正在上升。

So I'd like to understand how we reconcile this increase in transfers to Stage 3 with this, let's say, lower risk credit portfolio you are adopting and this lower provision expenses in the quarter. Thank you.

所以我想了解一下，我們如何將向第三階段轉移的增加與您正在採用的較低風險信貸組合以及本季度較低的撥備支出相協調。謝謝。

Gustavo, thanks for the question. Look, I think other than what we've already mentioned related to the better-than-expected asset quality performance in some of the segments, especially with credit cards Brazil, I think the other positive surprise -- I wouldn't say surprise, I mean, the positive outcome that we have had after kind of many months and years of investment is also on the ability to improve our collections engines and platforms, which has had kind of a material improvement in Brazil. And I think it will start to have material improvements in Mexico, most likely starting in the fourth quarter of 2025.

古斯塔沃，謝謝你的提問。你看，除了我們已經提到的某些領域（尤其是巴西信用卡業務）的資產品質表現好於預期之外，我認為另一個積極的驚喜——我不會說是驚喜，我的意思是，經過數月甚至數年的投資，我們取得的積極成果還體現在我們改進收款引擎和平台的能力上，這在巴西已經取得了實質性的改善。我認為墨西哥的情況將會開始出現實質改善，很可能從 2025 年第四季開始。

But other than that, it's just kind of a general performance of the portfolio. There's nothing atypical or nothing abnormal that you would have seen over the past two to three quarters that we wouldn't expect to continue seeing in the next two to three quarters unless we see kind of material changes in macro.

但除此之外，這只是投資組合的整體表現。過去兩到三個季度出現的任何非典型或異常情況，我們預計在未來兩到三個季度也不會繼續出現，除非宏觀經濟發生實質變化。

Okay. Okay. Understood. And my follow-up would be regarding Mexico. Assuming this, let's say, improving in cost of funding, we follow data from Mexico and we can see that you are improving the cost of funding there. Assuming a potential improvement also in loan-to-deposit ratio, and we also follow the NPL ratio, and we see the NPL ratio in Mexico under control. So do you think that assuming these trends you are posting Mexico, we can expect like some positive ROE or bottom line in Mexico soon?

好的。好的。明白了。我的後續問題是關於墨西哥的。假設資金成本有所改善，我們參考墨西哥的數據，可以看到那裡的資金成本確實有所改善。假設貸款存款比率也有可能改善，我們也關注不良貸款率，我們發現墨西哥的不良貸款率得到了控制。所以，根據你發布的墨西哥的這些趨勢，你認為我們很快就能期待墨西哥的股本回報率或利潤出現正增長嗎？

So Schroden, I wouldn't guide in any way or form as we haven't done in the past on kind of the P&L or net income either for the company or for any of the legal entities. So I would stay away from trying to provide you any high conviction outlook on when we're going to become net income positive or ROE.

所以施羅登，我不會以任何方式或形式提供指導，就像我們過去從未對公司或任何法人實體的損益表或淨收入進行過指導一樣。因此，我不會試圖向您提供任何關於我們何時能夠實現淨利潤為正或淨資產收益率 (ROE) 的高信心預測。

That said, I'm much more comfortable providing you with our impressions of the profitability potential of Mexico. If you take a look at our business in Mexico, it posts actually unit economics that are as compelling, if not more compelling, than Brazil's. It has higher ROA. It has higher ROE and allows us to actually provide kind of with material credit access to a portion of the population that it hasn't yet had no access to credit.

話雖如此，我還是更願意向您介紹我們對墨西哥獲利潛力的看法。如果你看看我們在墨西哥的業務，你會發現它的單位經濟效益實際上與巴西一樣有吸引力，甚至更有吸引力。它的資產報酬率更高。它的資產回報率更高，使我們能夠真正為一部分以前從未獲得過信貸的人群提供實質的信貸管道。

If you take a look at the more than 13 million now, almost 14 million customers in Mexico, about 20% of those did not have access to kind of a banking or credit before joining Nubank.

如果你看目前在墨西哥超過 1300 萬、接近 1400 萬的客戶，你會發現其中約 20% 的人在加入 Nubank 之前無法獲得任何形式的銀行服務或信貸。

And we think that in Mexico, we enjoy a very favorable cost structure compared with many of the other players in the region that allows Nubank to play at segments that incumbent banks are unable and unwilling to play to price it lower and still have compelling kind of unit economics. And we are super excited with what lies ahead in Mexico. We are still very, very, very early.

我們認為，與該地區的許多其他參與者相比，我們在墨西哥享有非常有利的成本結構，這使得 Nubank 能夠進入現有銀行無法或不願進入的細分市場，從而降低價格，同時仍然具有令人信服的單位經濟效益。我們對墨西哥的未來充滿期待。我們現在還處於非常非常非常早期的階段。

But as we continue to gain scale, we will see kind of economies of scale and operational leverage playing out there. In fact, today, Mexico already has a cost to serve that is about $1, which is much better than what Brazil had when it was at the same point in time with development of Mexico, and it already has kind of very encouraging ROEs and ROAs trends.

但隨著我們規模的不斷擴大，我們將看到規模經濟和營運槓桿效應發揮作用。事實上，如今墨西哥的服務成本已經達到約 1 美元，這比巴西在墨西哥發展初期的情況要好得多，而且墨西哥的股本回報率和資產回報率趨勢也相當令人鼓舞。

Big question in Mexico become how fast the economy will truly digitalize and how much kind of a banking penetration will grow. We are now excited not only to witness this but also to be a very active agent in promoting this together with other players in the industry and with the Mexican government.

墨西哥面臨的一大問題是，經濟數位轉型究竟會以多快的速度實現，以及銀行業務的滲透率會成長到什麼程度。我們現在不僅很高興能夠見證這一時刻，而且還將與業內其他參與者和墨西哥政府一起積極推動這一時刻的到來。

The other point I would just add here is that if we wanted to be profitable in Mexico, we would be profitable already. It's a decision. We literally touch about on mechanization and we're profitable immediately. We have already had the scale to generate that profitability. But that would actually be a really bad decision. It would be sacrificing the future for a short-term decision. We've always told investors we're optimizing for the long run. We're really optimizing to try to make investments that will pay for long as possible. And this is a very attractive market.

我還要補充一點，如果我們想在墨西哥獲利，我們現在就已經獲利了。這是一個決定。我們剛開始涉足機械化領域，就立即實現了盈利。我們已經具備了產生這種獲利能力的規模。但那其實會是一個非常糟糕的決定。這是為了短期利益而犧牲未來。我們一直告訴投資者，我們的目標是實現長期最適解。我們正努力優化投資策略，力求做出能長期帶來收益的投資。這是一個極具吸引力的市場。

Another data point that I think Lago mentioned previously is, on the ARPAC question, this is a country has a 40% higher income per capita than Brazil and where credit cards are majority, about 80% are revolvers versus only in Brazil, about 10% to 15% for our portfolio are revolvers.

Lago 先前提到的另一個數據點是，關於 ARPAC 問題，該國的人均收入比巴西高 40%，而且信用卡佔多數，其中約 80% 是循環信用額度，而巴西的循環信用額度僅占我們投資組合的 10% 到 15%。

So anyway, it's a big market, low penetration, a lot of the advantages that we have, like our capabilities on credit underwriting, the efficiency ratio. Good unit economics provide a really compelling investment opportunity. And so we'll continue investing the excess capital that we have in trying to maintain a leadership position in the country.

總之，這是一個很大的市場，滲透率很低，我們有許多優勢，例如我們在信用承銷方面的能力，以及效率比率。良好的單位經濟效益提供了極具吸引力的投資機會。因此，我們將繼續投入多餘的資金，努力保持我們在國內的領先地位。

Okay. Okay. Okay. That's a great answer. And as I said, we have followed your data in Mexico and we can see these trends improving. This is why I was asking about the potential profitability maybe sooner than we were expecting. But thanks again, and congrats on the results.

好的。好的。好的。這是一個很好的答案。正如我所說，我們一直在關注你們在墨西哥的數據，我們可以看到這些趨勢正在改善。這就是為什麼我詢問潛在獲利能力可能比我們預期的要快的原因。再次感謝，並恭喜你們取得好成績。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mr. Tito Labarta from Goldman Sachs.

接線生，請您接通高盛集團的Tito Labarta先生的電話。

First, I have a follow-up question, Lago, on your comment on the higher interest expenses just driven by higher funding costs in Brazil and SELIC being a little bit higher, I think.

首先，Lago，關於你提到的巴西融資成本較高以及SELIC利率略高導致利息支出增加的評論，我有一個後續問題。

But just to understand, because average SELIC only increased modestly in the quarter. Was there any impact perhaps from just more working days in the quarter. You had also launched the Turbo Money Boxes. I was wondering if that had any impact. I was a bit surprised by how much the interest expenses jumped.

但需要說明的是，本季平均 SELIC 僅略有成長。本季工作日增加是否會產生影響？您還推出了渦輪儲錢罐。我想知道這是否會產生任何影響。利息支出激增的幅度讓我有些意外。

So no, Tito, you're right, there were a few additional working days in the quarter, but it would have been equally offset by the revenues as well. But what you will see is that as we kind of took a more aggressive stance on the segmented portion of our deposits in Brazil, by which I mean, for a selected profile of customers that we think that are primary bank relationship customers or are prone to become primary banking relationship customers, we have been more aggressive with the Money Boxes, with the Turbo Cajitas and that has, all else constant, increased our cost of funding in Brazil. So that is unequivocal observation.

所以，Tito，你說得對，這個季度確實多了一些工作日，但這也會被收入的成長完全抵銷。但你會發現，隨著我們對巴西部分存款採取了更為積極的策略，我的意思是，對於我們認為是主要銀行關係客戶或有可能成為主要銀行關係客戶的特定客戶群體，我們在“儲錢罐”和“Turbo Cajitas”方面採取了更為積極的策略，在其他條件不變的情況下，這增加了我們在巴西的融資成本。這是毋庸置疑的觀察。

What I was trying to allude only, Tito, is that how would you reconcile what I've just said with slide 14, which is where we show kind of the cost expressed as a percentage of interbank rate coming down.

蒂托，我只是想暗示一下，你如何將我剛才所說的與第 14 張幻燈片調和起來？第 14 張投影片展示了成本以銀行間利率下降的百分比表示。

And I was just trying to say that the reason why it comes down is because we do a weighted average of percentage of CDI, a percentage of IBR and percentage of TIIE in Mexico. And as both Colombia and Mexico went down, that line here on slide 14 goes down, notwithstanding the fact that overall cost of funding denominated in dollar has gone up because of our deliberate intention to play more aggressiveness on the segmented roles of Cajitas in Brazil.

我只是想說，之所以會下降，是因為我們對墨西哥的 CDI 百分比、IBR 百分比和 TIIE 百分比進行了加權平均。隨著哥倫比亞和墨西哥的衰落，第 14 張幻燈片上的這條線也隨之下降，儘管由於我們有意在巴西的 Cajitas 的細分領域採取更積極的策略，以美元計價的融資總成本有所上升。

Okay. No, that's very clear. That helps clarify a lot, yes. I mean, we expected funding costs in Mexico and Colombia to come down. I was just a little bit surprised by how much that had gone up specifically in Brazil, and, as you mentioned, more than offset by the revenues.

好的。不，這一點很清楚。是的，這有助於澄清很多問題。我的意思是，我們原本預期在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的融資成本會下降。我只是有點驚訝於巴西的漲幅如此之大，而且正如你所說，這完全被收入的成長所抵消了。

So my second question is somewhat on the revenue. Just thinking on the loan growth, you had very good loan growth overall. But first on the secured lending, right? And David, you mentioned your FGTS could be a headwind, but it shouldn't have an impact.

所以我的第二個問題跟收入有關。單就貸款成長而言，你們的貸款成長總體來說非常出色。但首先要解決擔保貸款問題，對吧？大衛，你提到你的 FGTS 可能會帶來不利影響，但這應該不會造成影響。

Do you expect that to be potentially offset by private payroll loans? I don't think you're necessarily growing significantly there. Just think about what could offset that FGTS potential headwind would be helpful. Thank you.

您認為私人薪資貸款有可能抵銷這種情況嗎？我不認為你在那裡取得了顯著的進步。想想看，哪些因素可以抵消FGTS可能帶來的不利影響，這將很有幫助。謝謝。

Yes. No, absolutely, Tito. Look, let me put it this way. The secure lending class or segment that we define here is largely composed by FGTS, public payroll loans and private payroll loans. So grossly, those are the three components. You do still have a smaller portion that we call IBL, investment backed loans, but that's a much minor portion.

是的。不，當然，蒂托。這麼說吧。我們在這裡定義的安全貸款類別或細分市場主要由 FGTS、公共薪資貸款和私人薪資貸款組成。簡而言之，這就是三個組成部分。雖然還有一小部分我們稱之為投資支持貸款（IBL），但這部分佔比非常小。

We do expect to see a material headwind in terms of FGTS if the new regulation kind of prevails. But we do believe that this will be more than offset by an increase in public payroll loans at this point in time, more so than on private payroll loans. On public payroll loans, we have seen a fairly material uptick in our ability to originate public payroll loans in Brazil in the third quarter. We expect to see this in the fourth quarter as well.

如果新規得以實施，我們預期FGTS將面臨實質的不利影響。但我們相信，目前公共部門薪資貸款的成長將足以抵銷這項影響，其增幅甚至超過私人部門薪資貸款。在公共部門薪資貸款方面，我們看到第三季我們在巴西發放公共部門薪資貸款的能力顯著提升。我們預計第四季也會出現這種情況。

And as we see nominal interest rates in Brazil finally coming down, we do expect to see portability going up as we have seen in all of the prior cycles, and that will give us the opening to actually get a disproportionately higher shares of the public payroll loan market in the country.

隨著巴西名目利率最終下降，我們預計可轉移性將像以往所有周期一樣上升，這將使我們有機會在該國的公共工資貸款市場獲得不成比例的更高份額。

Now going to your third and final piece, which is private payroll loans. We are very, very bullish on this product in the medium and in long term. We are still more cautious than some of the other players in the industry with respect to its cost of risk, mostly related to what we call employee-related collateral. But we are seeing this kind of improving quarter-after-quarter, and we are reflecting and watching this very carefully on when and how we will lean in more aggressively in the future.

現在來看第三部分，也是最後一部分，也就是私人薪資貸款。我們非常非常看好該產品的中長期前景。與業內其他一些參與者相比，我們在風險成本方面仍然更加謹慎，這主要與我們所說的員工相關抵押品有關。但我們看到這種改善趨勢正在逐季顯現，我們正在認真思考並密切關注這一趨勢，以便在未來何時以及如何更加積極地增加投資。

It's not something that we are taking as a base case now, but we are certainly paying very close attention to that. For now, public payroll loans is the one that will offset the slowdown in FGTS, Tito.

雖然我們目前還沒有將其作為基本情況，但我們肯定會密切關注此事。蒂托，就目前而言，公共薪資貸款將抵消FGTS的放緩。

Oh, that's very clear. Thanks a lot, Lago, and congrats on the results.

哦，這很清楚。非常感謝，拉戈，也恭喜你取得好成績。

So thank you, everyone. We now have approached 60 minutes of the call. So we are now concluding today's call. On behalf of Nu Holdings, our Investor Relations team, I want to thank you very much for your time and participation on Nu earnings call today.

所以，謝謝大家。通話至今已進行了近60分鐘。今天的電話會議到此結束。我謹代表 Nu Holdings 的投資者關係團隊，非常感謝您今天抽出時間參加 Nu 的財報電話會議。

Over the coming days, we'll be following up with questions received tonight but we are not able to answer. And please do not hesitate to reach out to our team if you have any further questions. Thank you and have a good night.

接下來幾天，我們將跟進今晚收到但暫時無法回答的問題。如果您還有任何疑問，請隨時與我們的團隊聯繫。謝謝，祝你晚安。

The Nu Holdings conference call has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Nu Holdings的電話會議現已結束。感謝各位參加今天的報告會。您現在可以斷開連線了。