Nu Holdings Ltd (NU) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nu Holdings conference call to discuss the results for the second quarter of 2025. A slide presentation accompanies today's webcast, which is available on Nu's Investor relations website www.investors.nu in English, and www.investidores.nu in Portuguese. This conference is being recorded and the replay can also be accessed on the company's IR website.

女士們、先生們，晚上好。歡迎參加 Nu Holdings 電話會議討論 2025 年第二季的業績。今天的網路廣播附有幻燈片演示，可在 Nu 的投資者關係網站 www.investors.nu（英語版）和 www.investidores.nu（葡萄牙語版）上觀看。此次會議正在錄製中，您也可以在該公司的投資者關係網站上觀看重播。

(Operator Instructions) (spoken in foreign language) (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Guilherme Souto, investor Relations Officer at Nu Holdings. Mr. Souto, you may proceed.

（操作員指示）（以外語講話）（操作員指示）現在，我想將電話轉給 Nu Holdings 的投資者關係官 Guilherme Souto 先生。索托先生，您可以繼續。

Thank you, operator, and thank you, everyone, for joining the earnings call today. If you have not seen the earnings release already, a copy is posted in the Investor Relations website. With me on today's call are David Velez, our Founder, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman; and Guilherme Lago, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝接線員，也謝謝大家參加今天的收益電話會議。如果您尚未看到收益報告，您可以在投資者關係網站上看到一份副本。和我一起參加今天電話會議的還有我們的創辦人、執行長兼董事長 David Velez 和我們的財務長 Guilherme Lago。

Throughout this conference call, we'll be presenting non-IFRS financial information, including adjusted net income. These are important financial measures for Nu holdings, but are not financial measures as defined by IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures from other companies. Reconciliations of the non-IFRS to the IFRS financial information are available in the earnings press release. Unless noted otherwise, all growth rates are on a year-over-year FX neutral basis.

在整個電話會議期間，我們將提供非國際財務報告準則的財務信息，包括調整後的淨收入。這些是 Nu 控股的重要財務指標，但不是 IFRS 定義的財務指標，可能無法與其他公司的類似指標進行比較。非國際財務報告準則與國際財務報告準則財務資訊的對帳可在收益新聞稿中查閱。除非另有說明，所有成長率均為年比外匯中性成長率。

I would also like to remind everyone that today's discussion might include forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance, and therefore, you should not put undue reliance on them. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties and could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in the earnings release.

我還想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述並不能保證未來的表現，因此，您不應過度依賴它們。這些聲明受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與我們的預期有重大差異。請參閱收益報告中的前瞻性陳述揭露。

I will now turn the call over to Dave. Please go ahead, David.

現在我將電話轉給戴夫。請繼續，大衛。

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. In Q2 2025, we delivered another quarter of strong growth as we continue to strengthen our position as the leading digital bank in Latin America and one of the leading financial technology platforms in the world. Our customer base expanding to nearly 123 million customers with over 4.1 million net additions, all while maintaining an activity rate above 83%, underscoring the depth of engagement across our platform.

大家好，感謝大家今天加入我們。2025 年第二季度，我們再次實現強勁成長，繼續鞏固我們作為拉丁美洲領先數位銀行和全球領先金融科技平台之一的地位。我們的客戶群擴大到近 1.23 億客戶，淨增客戶超過 410 萬，同時保持活躍率超過 83%，凸顯了我們平台的參與深度。

In Mexico, we surpassed 12 million customers now serving approximately 13% of the adult population. And in Colombia, nearly 10% of the population is already choosing Nu as their financial partner. The combination of sustained customer growth and a 34% ARPAC CAGR since 2021 has created a powerful compounding effect, driving revenues to $3.7 billion in Q2, representing an 85% annualized growth rate since 2021.

在墨西哥，我們的客戶數量已超過 1,200 萬，目前服務約 13% 的成年人口。在哥倫比亞，近 10% 的人口已經選擇 Nu 作為他們的金融合作夥伴。持續的客戶成長和自 2021 年以來 34% 的 ARPAC 複合年增長率相結合，產生了強大的複合效應，推動第二季度的收入達到 37 億美元，即自 2021 年以來的年化增長率達到 85%。

Gross profit has risen 78% annually, reaching $1.5 billion as we capture benefits of scale, cutting our efficiency ratio by more than half to 28.3% in Q2 2025. Quarterly net income has almost tripled in the past two years to $637 million. These results come despite our ongoing investments in growth and most importantly, in keeping our customers loving us fanatically.

由於我們獲得了規模效益，毛利年增 78%，達到 15 億美元，到 2025 年第二季度，我們的效率比率降低了一半以上，降至 28.3%。過去兩年，季度淨收入幾乎成長了兩倍，達到 6.37 億美元。儘管我們不斷投資於成長，最重要的是保持客戶對我們狂熱的喜愛，但我們仍然取得了這些成果。

And we will continue to invest with focus and intention. This performance reinforces a key message. Growth is in coming in the expense of sustainable results, quite the opposite. We're proving that it's possible to scale efficiently with discipline and still generate strong earnings.

我們將繼續有重點、有目的的投資。這次表演強化了一個關鍵訊息。恰恰相反，成長是以犧牲永續成果為代價的。我們正在證明，在遵守紀律的情況下，可以有效擴大規模，同時仍能產生豐厚的收益。

Taken together, these elements have broadened our platform into a powerful multiproduct, multisegment and multi-geo growth engine. Today, 104.7 million mass market customers, 3 million high-income clients and 5.2 million small businesses engaged with Nubank through a diverse suite of products ranging from credit and insurance to investments in crypto. This spread is no accident. It is the result of a deliberate cross-sell strategy that expands a single product relationship into a broad ecosystem.

綜合起來，這些因素將我們的平台擴展為強大的多產品、多細分市場和多地理成長引擎。如今，1.047 億大眾市場客戶、300 萬高收入客戶和 520 萬小型企業透過從信貸和保險到加密貨幣投資等多種產品與 Nubank 合作。這種傳播並非偶然。這是經過深思熟慮的交叉銷售策略的結果，該策略將單一產品關係擴展到廣泛的生態系統。

By meeting customers' needs at every stage of their financial journey, we're not only deepen loyalty but also multiply the ways we can create value. This broad-based momentum is reflected in Q2. The active unsecured loans customer base expanded 56% year over year, while the secured customer base more than doubled and crypto customers increased 41% year over year.

透過滿足客戶在其金融旅程的每個階段的需求，我們不僅加深了忠誠度，而且還增加了創造價值的方式。這種廣泛的勢頭在第二季度有所體現。活躍無擔保貸款客戶群較去年同期成長 56%，而擔保客戶群較去年同期成長一倍多，加密客戶較去年同期成長 41%。

All segments continue to post solid growth. And in our less mature countries, our core credit card franchise is scaling quickly. Card customers rose 52% in Mexico, and 34% in Colombia. We're not only scaling, we're locking new markets, pioneering adoption in underpenetrated segments and building the foundation for the long term. And as we continue to grow and deepen customer relationships, we're doing so with a business model that delivers results and adjusting growth but also in profitability.

所有部門持續保持穩健成長。在我們不太成熟的國家，我們的核心信用卡特許經營權正在迅速擴大。墨西哥的信用卡客戶數量增加了 52%，哥倫比亞增加了 34%。我們不僅在擴大規模，還在鎖定新市場，在滲透率較低的領域率先採用，並為長期發展奠定基礎。隨著我們不斷發展和深化客戶關係，我們正在採用一種既能帶來成果、又能調整成長、同時還能提高獲利能力的商業模式。

As we look ahead to this next chapter, having the right leadership in place is more important than ever. We've recently made significant additions to our management team that elevate our ability to execute on our long-term strategy and deepen our leadership bench.

當我們展望下一章時，擁有正確的領導力比以往任何時候都更重要。我們最近對管理團隊進行了重大補充，以提高我們執行長期策略的能力並加強我們的領導團隊。

Over the past few months, we welcomed three truly exceptional leaders to Nubank. Roberto Campos Neto joins us as Vice Chairman and Head of Public Policy. As the former Governor of the Central Bank of Brazil Roberto brings not only on match regulatory insight, but also a strategic patient for how technology and policy can shape more inclusive financial systems.

在過去的幾個月裡，我們歡迎三位真正傑出的領導者加入 Nubank。Roberto Campos Neto 加入我們，擔任副董事長兼公共政策主管。身為巴西央行前行長，羅伯託不僅帶來了合規監管的洞察力，也對科技和政策如何塑造更具包容性的金融體係有著戰略耐心。

Eric Young, our new Chief Technology Officer, brings deep expertise in scaling complex text platforms and leading high-performing engineering teams at a global scale, having run and led products that reach over 900 million customers around the world. Ethan Eismann, our new Chief Design Officer, is a world-class design leader with a track record of building intuitive human-centered detail experiences that delight hundreds of millions of users are on the globe.

我們的新任技術長 Eric Young 擁有豐富的專業知識，能夠擴展複雜的文字平台並領導全球範圍內的高效工程團隊，他運作和領導的產品覆蓋了全球超過 9 億客戶。我們的新任首席設計長 Ethan Eismann 是一位世界級的設計領袖，他致力於打造以人為本的直覺細節體驗，令全球數億用戶感到滿意。

All three are joining Nubank's management team and will report directly to me. They're world-class experts in their craft and just as importantly, seasoned business leaders with experience and judgment to help guide Nubank through our next chapter of growth.

這三人都將加入 Nubank 的管理團隊，並直接向我報告。他們是各自領域的世界級專家，同樣重要的是，他們也是經驗豐富的商業領袖，擁有豐富的經驗和判斷力，能夠幫助 Nubank 邁入下一個成長篇章。

If there's one thing that has to find Nubank since day one, it's our people. We've always had the right team for each stage of our journey, leaders who are not only exceptional in their domains but who elevate the company around them. That remains true today. These additions reflect our ongoing commitment to having the best possible team in place for the next cycle, a cycle that will require even greater scale, complexity and ambition.

如果從第一天起，Nubank 就必須專注於一件事，那就是我們的員工。在我們發展的每個階段，我們始終擁有合適的團隊，這些領導者不僅在各自的領域表現出色，而且還能提升公司的整體水準。今天依然如此。這些新增成員體現了我們持續致力於為下一個週期組建最優秀的團隊，而下一個週期將需要更大的規模、複雜性和雄心壯志。

Together, Roberto, Ethan and Eric represent kind of talent advantage, we believe, is one of Nubank's credit strengths, a dream team for where we're heading next. We're thrilled to have them on board, and I want to offer a very well welcome to all three.

我們相信，Roberto、Ethan 和 Eric 共同代表著一種人才優勢，這是 Nubank 的信用優勢之一，也是我們下一步前進的夢幻團隊。我們很高興他們能加入我們，我謹向他們三人表示熱烈的歡迎。

With that, I'd like to pass the floor to our CFO, Guilherme Lago, who will walk us through the details of our financial results. Over to you, Lago.

接下來，我想請我們的財務長 Guilherme Lago 向我們介紹我們的財務業績細節。交給你了，拉戈。

Thank you, David, and good evening, everyone. Let me start by reinforcing how our business model creates value. We acquire customers at scale, increase engagement over time, monetize as cohorts mature, and we do all of this on a low-cost, highly efficient platform.

謝謝你，大衛，大家晚上好。首先，我要強調一下我們的商業模式如何創造價值。我們大規模地獲取客戶，隨著時間的推移提高參與度，隨著群體的成熟而實現盈利，並且我們在低成本、高效的平台上完成所有這些工作。

On the left side of this slide, you see monthly ARPAC consistently increasing across all cohorts, reaching $27.3 for customers who have been with us for longer. And even among these more mature customer cohorts, monetization keeps expanding.

在這張投影片的左側，您可以看到所有群組的每月 ARPAC 都在持續增加，對於與我們合作時間較長的客戶提供每月 ARPAC，其費用達到 27.3 美元。即使在這些較成熟的客戶群中，貨幣化也在不斷擴大。

In the second quarter of 2025, our monthly ARPAC crossed the 12 mark for the first time, reaching $12.2, up 18% year over year. Meanwhile, as you can see on the right side of the slide, cost to serve remains stable at $0.80 per active customer, reflecting the efficiency of our platform. This operating leverage is one of the most important and competitive advantages of Nubank. It is what allows us to offer better pricing to customers while consistently increasing our earnings power.

2025 年第二季度，我們的月度 ARPAC 首次突破 12 美元大關，達到 12.2 美元，年增 18%。同時，正如您在幻燈片右側看到的，服務成本保持穩定在每位活躍客戶 0.80 美元，這反映了我們平台的效率。這種經營槓桿是Nubank最重要的競爭優勢之一。這使我們能夠向客戶提供更優惠的價格，同時不斷提高我們的獲利能力。

Moving to our credit portfolio. Total balances reached $27.3 billion in the second quarter, up 40% year over year on an FX-neutral basis. All segments contributed to this growth. Secured lending grew 200% on an FX-neutral basis, unsecured loans 70%, and credit cards 24%. The continued diversification has been a mark of our credit portfolio quarter after quarter.

轉向我們的信貸組合。第二季總餘額達到 273 億美元，以外匯中性計算年增 40%。所有部門都為這一增長做出了貢獻。剔除匯率因素，擔保貸款成長 200%，無擔保貸款成長 70%，信用卡成長 24%。我們的信貸組合每季都呈現持續多樣化的趨勢。

Secured and unsecured loans now represent more than one-third of our total portfolio, up from 25% just a year ago. This shift in mix is intentional and it speaks to our ability to expand our credit portfolio spectrum over time and better serve customers in every single market where we operate.

擔保貸款和無擔保貸款目前占我們總投資組合的三分之一以上，而一年前這一比例僅為 25%。這種組合變化是有意為之，它表明我們有能力隨著時間的推移擴大我們的信貸組合範圍，並更好地服務於我們經營的每個市場的客戶。

Moving to loan originations. We are operating a retail credit business at scale across Brazil, Mexico and Colombia. In the second quarter, we maintained a strong pace from the previous quarter, originating $3.6 billion in loans.

轉向貸款發放。我們在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞大規模經營零售信貸業務。第二季度，我們維持了上一季的強勁成長速度，發放了 36 億美元的貸款。

That marks a 43% year-over-year increase on an FX-neutral basis, and it is the highest origination volume we have ever reached. This consistent origination growth reflects both the sheer size of our consumer platform and the maturity of our credit underwriting engine in Latin America.

剔除外匯因素，這一數字年增 43%，也是我們迄今達到的最高發起量。這種持續的成長既反映了我們消費者平台的規模，也反映了我們在拉丁美洲的信用核保引擎的成熟度。

Turning to our credit card portfolio in Brazil. Installment balances remain the primary component of our interest earning portfolio. This reflects our strategy of promoting more structured and predictable forms of credit helping our customers finance, purchase and transfers in a responsible way.

談到我們在巴西的信用卡組合。分期付款餘額仍然是我們生息投資組合的主要組成部分。這反映了我們推廣更結構化、更可預測的信貸形式的策略，幫助我們的客戶以負責任的方式融資、購買和轉帳。

Our mix is fundamentally different from that of the industry. While many players rely heavily on revolving balances, we have been building a more sustainable model centered on lower risk, lower cost interest earnings installments, and this translates into better products for our customers and healthier unit economics for Nu.

我們的組合與產業的組合有著根本的不同。雖然許多參與者嚴重依賴循環餘額，但我們一直在建立一個以低風險、低成本利息收入分期付款為中心的更可持續的模式，這意味著為我們的客戶提供更好的產品，並為 Nu 帶來更健康的單位經濟效益。

Now turning to the other side of the balance sheet, funding. We continue to execute our strategy to build a scalable and sustainable deposit franchise across Latin America. Total deposits reached $36.6 billion in the second quarter, up 41% year over year on an FX neutral basis.

現在轉向資產負債表的另一邊，即融資。我們將繼續執行我們的策略，在拉丁美洲建立可擴展且可持續的存款特許經營權。第二季總存款達 366 億美元，以外匯中立計算年增 41%。

Brazil remains the anchor for our deposit base but we are also seeing strong progress in Mexico and Colombia, where we have expanded both volumes and attach rates. This deposit growth is a core pillar of our long-term strategy.

巴西仍然是我們存款基礎的支柱，但我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞也看到了強勁的進展，我們的存款量和附加率都有所擴大。存款成長是我們長期策略的核心支柱。

It is what enables us to become the leading and most competitive retail financial institution in the region. We have been lowering deposit yields in Mexico and Colombia in the recent months, with some significant changes implemented only now in early July 2025. As a result, our second-quarter cost of funding did not yet fully reflect these adjustments. We expect the full impact to materialize only gradually and over the coming quarters.

這使我們成為該地區領先且最具競爭力的零售金融機構。近幾個月來，我們一直在降低墨西哥和哥倫比亞的存款收益率，一些重大變化直到2025年7月初才實施。因此，我們第二季的融資成本尚未完全反映這些調整。我們預計全面影響將在未來幾季逐步顯現。

Now turning to net interest income. We delivered strong growth again this quarter. up 33% year over year on an FX-neutral basis, reaching a record high of $2.1 billion in the quarter. NIM improved 80 basis points quarter over quarter on an FX-neutral basis even with a slight reduction in our loan-to-deposit ratio, which went from 44% to 43%. In our most scaled market, Brazil, NIM continued to expand, supported by healthy spreads and growing volumes.

現在談談淨利息收入。本季我們再次實現了強勁成長。以匯率中性計算，年增 33%，達到本季創紀錄的 21 億美元。儘管我們的貸存比略有下降，從 44% 降至 43%，但剔除匯率因素，淨利差仍比上一季提高了 80 個基點。在我們規模最大的市場巴西，在健康的利差和不斷增長的交易量的支撐下，NIM 繼續擴大。

In Mexico and Colombia, we continue investing to become the leading and most loved retail financial institution in these countries. While these investments, however, naturally weighed on the short-term margins, we believe they are critical to unlocking long-term value. Looking ahead, we see further room for margin expansion as we optimize the balance sheet, gradually reallocating liquidity from cash into credit and lower our cost of funding in Mexico and Colombia.

在墨西哥和哥倫比亞，我們持續投資，力爭成為這些國家領先且最受歡迎的零售金融機構。雖然這些投資自然會對短期利潤率造成壓力，但我們認為它們對於釋放長期價值至關重要。展望未來，隨著我們優化資產負債表，逐步將流動性從現金重新分配到信貸，並降低我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的融資成本，我們看到利潤率進一步擴大的空間。

Now on to credit loss allowances and risk-adjusted NIM. CLA expenses remained relatively stable in the quarter. In early Q2, we began rolling out our major upgrades to our credit models. This will significantly increase credit card limits in Brazil throughout the remainder of 2025.

現在來討論信用損失準備金和風險調整後的淨利差。本季 CLA 費用保持相對穩定。在第二季初，我們開始對信用模型進行重大升級。這將在 2025 年剩餘時間內大幅提高巴西的信用卡限額。

As a result, we recognized provisions this quarter front-loading expected credit losses, which have not yet been fully offset by the corresponding growth in the interest-earning portfolio and related revenues, naturally creating a temporary timing mismatch.

因此，我們在本季度確認了前期預期信貸損失撥備，但這些撥備尚未被生息投資組合和相關收入的相應增長完全抵消，自然造成了暫時的時間錯配。

Now excluding this effect, credit loss allowance would have declined quarter over quarter on an FX-neutral basis, reflecting the normalization of seasonal dynamics that had impacted Q1. Now despite these dynamics, strong NII more than offset the small increase in CLA expenses, driving our risk-adjusted NIM up to 9.2% in the second quarter of 2025.

現在，排除這一影響，信用損失準備金在外匯中性基礎上將環比下降，反映出影響第一季的季節性動態正常化。儘管存在這些動態，強勁的 NII 足以抵消 CLA 費用的小幅增長，推動我們的風險調整後 NIM 在 2025 年第二季度上升至 9.2%。

Next, delinquency metrics for our consumer credit portfolio in Brazil. The 15 to 90 day NPL ratio declined to 4.4% in the second quarter, a 30 basis point improvement versus the previous quarter. This was in line with our expectations and slightly better than the typical second-quarter seasonality, which usually shows a 20 basis points drop.

接下來，讓我們來看看巴西消費信貸組合的拖欠指標。第二季度，15至90天不良貸款率下降至4.4%，較上一季改善30個基點。這符合我們的預期，並且略好於通常出現 20 個基點下降的第二季典型季節性。

Now the 90-plus day NPL ratio increased by 10 basis points to 6.6%, reflecting the rise in early delinquency observed in Q1 and following the usual seasonal pattern. Finally, coverage ratios remained solid and stable. We continue to carry a fairly robust provision buffer, both across the total portfolio and specifically across the 90-plus NPL balances.

目前，90天以上不良貸款率上升了10個基點，達到6.6%，這反映了第一季早期拖欠率的上升，並且符合通常的季節性模式。最後，覆蓋率保持穩固和穩定。我們繼續保持相當強勁的撥備緩衝，無論是在整個投資組合中，還是在 90 多個不良貸款餘額中。

Shifting to gross profit. In Q2, gross profit reached a record high of $1.5 billion, up 24% year over year on an FX-neutral basis, a clear reflection of the strong momentum of our business. This performance was driven by strong NII expansion and stable credit loss allowances. Gross profit margin also improved sequentially and climbing now to 42.2%, up from 40.6% in the past quarter.

轉向毛利。第二季度，毛利達到創紀錄的 15 億美元，剔除匯率因素，年成長 24%，這清楚反映了我們業務的強勁勢頭。這一業績是由強勁的NII擴張和穩定的信貸損失準備金推動的。毛利率也較上季提高，從上一季的 40.6% 上升至 42.2%。

Looking at the composition of our gross profit, we continue to see the benefits of our business model, not only in terms of growth and profitability as we have seen in the prior slides, but also in terms of diversification and resilience.

從毛利組成來看，我們繼續看到我們的商業模式帶來的好處，不僅體現在前面幻燈片中提到的成長和獲利能力方面，也體現在多樣化和彈性方面。

By leading with credit, will drive stronger engagement and deepen customer relationships over time, which unlocks cross-sell and increases shares of wallet. But fees and float have also become meaningful contributors to our gross profit and have added resilience and consistency to our revenues across cycles. Ultimately, being a credit-first FinTech has helped us ignite what we call the principality flywheel. And with that, we have earned the right to cross-sell and diversify our gross profit base.

透過以信貸為主導，將推動更強的參與度並隨著時間的推移加深客戶關係，從而釋放交叉銷售並增加錢包份額。但費用和浮動資金也成為我們毛利的重要貢獻者，並增加了我們收入在各個週期的彈性和一致性。最終，作為一家以信用為先的金融科技公司，我們啟動了所謂的「公國飛輪」。由此，我們獲得了交叉銷售和多樣化毛利基礎的權利。

Now turning to efficiency. In the second quarter, our efficiency ratio rose slightly to 28.3%, driven by two main factors: number one, RSU expenses from the initial vesting of our [125] and our grant, which typically happens around March of every year; and number two, higher marketing investments during the quarter.

現在轉向效率。在第二季度，我們的效率比率小幅上升至 28.3%，主要受兩個因素推動：第一，我們的[125]初始歸屬和授予產生的 RSU 費用，這通常發生在每年 3 月左右；第二，本季度行銷投資增加。

Now as David mentioned earlier today, we are investing with intention to become the largest and the most loved financial institution in Latin America. While these investments may temporarily increase our efficiency ratio in the coming quarters, they are fully aligned with our long-term value creation strategy.

正如大衛今天早些時候提到的，我們投資的目的是成為拉丁美洲最大、最受歡迎的金融機構。雖然這些投資可能會在未來幾季暫時提高我們的效率比率，但它們與我們的長期價值創造策略完全一致。

The long-term trajectory remains intact -- our model continues to benefit from operating leverage with significant room to unlock additional efficiencies as we scale. Supported by strong revenue growth and disciplined cost management we expect the efficiency ratio to further decline over the coming years, driving, number one, continued margin expansion; number two, sustainable profitability; and number three, deeper competitive moats.

長期軌跡保持不變－我們的模式繼續受益於經營槓桿，隨著規模的擴大，我們還有很大空間來釋放額外的效率。在強勁的收入成長和嚴格的成本管理的支持下，我們預計未來幾年效率比率將進一步下降，從而推動：第一，利潤率持續擴大；第二，可持續盈利；第三，更深的競爭護城河。

Before we wrap up, it's important to highlight how our business model consistently deliver bottom line performance and does so at scale. Net income reached $637 million in the second quarter, up 42% year over year on an FX-neutral basis.

在結束之前，我們必須強調我們的商業模式如何持續提供底線績效並大規模地實現這一目標。第二季淨收入達 6.37 億美元，剔除匯率因素，較去年同期成長 42%。

Return on equity reached 28% in continuing to track well above industry peers. Now what makes this performance especially notable is how we got here by charging lower prices and offering better experience to our customers while still delivering strong bottom line results, and we are just getting started, which brings us to Mexico, where we are seeing encouraging momentum and a clear path to scale.

股本回報率達28%，繼續遠高於同業。現在，讓我們的業績尤其引人注目的是，我們是如何通過收取更低的價格並為客戶提供更好的體驗，同時仍然提供強勁的底線業績而達到這一水平的，而且我們才剛剛起步，這就把我們帶到了墨西哥，在這裡我們看到了令人鼓舞的發展勢頭和清晰的擴大規模的道路。

Customer growth is accelerating, and our core product, credit cards is scaling. We reached 6.6 million credit card customers this quarter, up from 4.3 million a year ago. Over the last 12 months, we accounted for more than a quarter of all Nu credit cards issued in Mexico.

客戶成長正在加速，我們的核心產品信用卡也在擴大規模。本季我們的信用卡客戶數量達到 660 萬，比去年同期的 430 萬有所成長。在過去的 12 個月中，我們佔據了墨西哥發行的所有 Nu 信用卡的四分之一以上。

This is a clear sign of our early success in expanding access to credit in the country. At this stage in Mexico, our most important KPIs are number one, growing a solid and engaged customer base; number two, building a large and resilient local currency liability franchise; and number three, continue to improve our credit underwriting models to approve more customers and drive sustainable portfolio growth.

這是我們在擴大國家信貸管道方面取得初步成功的明顯標誌。目前，在墨西哥，我們最重要的關鍵績效指標是：第一，發展穩固且活躍的客戶群；第二，建立龐大且有韌性的本幣負債特許經營權；第三，繼續改進我們的信用承保模式，以批准更多客戶並推動可持續的投資組合增長。

On the funding side, our liability franchise continues to show signs of strength. Even after adjusting down our deeper rates, deposits continue to exceed $6 billion, underscoring the value of our brand and the appeal of our products.

在融資方面，我們的責任特許經營權繼續顯示出強勁的跡象。即使在下調了更深的利率之後，存款仍然超過 60 億美元，這凸顯了我們的品牌價值和產品的吸引力。

Our interest-earning portfolio has gained strong traction recently, growing over 70% year over year on an FX-neutral basis. We will continue to scale credit, but at the right pace accelerating when the signals are clear and consistent with our long-term strategy in Mexico, and we will never hesitate to pull back if and when the situation requires. We are very confident in our opportunity to win in Mexico, and our focus remains on disciplined execution and long-term value creation.

我們的生息投資組合近期表現強勁，以外匯中性計算年增超過 70%。我們將繼續擴大信貸規模，但會以適當的速度加速，當訊號清晰且與我們在墨西哥的長期策略一致時，如果情況需要，我們也不會猶豫撤退。我們對在墨西哥取得成功的機會非常有信心，我們的重點仍然是嚴格的執行和長期價值創造。

With that, we will now open the call for questions. Thank you.

現在，我們將開始提問。謝謝。

We will now start the Q&A session for investors and analysts. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Guilherme Souto, Investor Relations Officer.

我們現在開始投資人和分析師問答環節。（操作員指示）現在，我想將電話轉給投資者關係官 Guilherme Souto 先生。

Thank you, operator. Could you please open the line for Eduardo Rosman from BTG?

謝謝您，接線生。您能接通 BTG 的 Eduardo Rosman 的電話嗎？

Hi, everyone. Congrats on the numbers. I have a question for David. In recent months, we have seen important changes right in the management team, including the announcement of a new CTO this week. So could you please help us understand the significance of these changes for Nubank in this next phase?

大家好。恭喜你取得這些成績。我有一個問題想問大衛。最近幾個月，我們看到管理團隊發生了重大變化，包括本周宣布任命新任首席技術長。那麼，您能否幫助我們理解這些變化對於 Nubank 下一階段的意義呢？

And please, if you could also connect this topic to the company's kind of international expansion, right? That would be great as well. Specifically, do these new additions suggest also a possible acceleration of the growth outside Brazil, including entering new markets beyond Mexico and Colombia? Thanks a lot.

另外，您是否可以將這個主題與公司的國際擴張聯繫起來？那也很好。具體來說，這些新成員是否也預示著巴西以外地區的成長可能加速，包括進入墨西哥和哥倫比亞以外的新市場？多謝。

Rosman, thank you. Thanks a lot for the question. As we've said in the past, we have made this number of changes over the past couple of months, really thinking about the next 5 to 10 years. We think we are -- we have ahead one of the most interesting opportunities in technology in the world.

羅斯曼，謝謝你。非常感謝您的提問。正如我們過去所說的那樣，過去幾個月我們做出了許多改變，真正考慮的是未來 5 到 10 年。我們認為，我們面臨著世界上最有趣的科技機會之一。

Financial services is still the largest market in the world that hasn't really been disrupted by technology. Over 95% of the market capital financial services globally, over $8 trillion, is still very much dominated by all traditional banks. And that is very different from what has happened in all our different segments.

金融服務仍然是世界上最大的尚未受到技術衝擊的市場。全球超過 95% 的市場資本金融服務（超過 8 兆美元）仍然由所有傳統銀行主導。這與我們各個不同領域發生的情況截然不同。

So as we think about the next 5, 10 years, we are preparing to play in the world -- in the top leagues in the world class. And as we prepare to play in the world leagues, we are bringing a world-class team. And this likely is going to mean adding talent, sometimes that come from Latin America globally, but also some talent that comes from some of the top world-class technology companies. And so that is a bit what we are preparing here.

因此，當我們考慮未來 5 年、10 年時，我們正在為在世界頂級聯賽中比賽做準備。當我們準備參加世界聯賽時，我們帶來了一支世界級的球隊。這可能意味著增加人才，有時是來自拉丁美洲的人才，但也有一些是來自一些世界頂尖科技公司的人才。這就是我們在這裡準備的內容。

I think the addition of Roberto is very strategic in helping us strengthen our positioning in Latin America. We have we have regulated entities in the three markets that we operate. We will have many more regulated entities later on as we internationalize.

我認為羅伯託的加入對於幫助我們加強在拉丁美洲的地位非常具有戰略意義。我們在營運的三個市場中都有受監管的實體。隨著我們國際化的進程，我們將擁有更多受監管的實體。

So regulators are a key counterparty of us. We've always been ahead in terms of regulatory compliance, and we treat that very, very seriously. Public policy is a key aspect of also of what we do as a regulated financial institution.

因此，監管機構是我們的重要交易對手。我們在監管合規方面一直處於領先地位，我們對此非常非常重視。公共政策也是我們作為受監管金融機構所做工作的重要面向。

And in Roberto, we also were able to find all of that knowledge, but also a lot of technology and strategy knowledge. So it was a very key strategic addition to a team and it has been truly phenomenal to being able to work with him here and the team over the past month already.

在羅伯托身上，我們不僅發現了所有這些知識，還發現了大量的技術和策略知識。因此，對於團隊來說，這是一個非常關鍵的策略補充，過去一個月能夠在這裡與他和團隊一起工作真是太棒了。

And with the addition of Eric and Ethan, I think we are saying we are on the way to build one of the world-class products in financial services. We already have one of the most sophisticated technology stacks of any company in Latin America.

隨著 Eric 和 Ethan 的加入，我想我們正在打造金融服務領域的世界級產品之一。我們已經擁有拉丁美洲所有公司中最先進的技術堆疊之一。

We're in the middle of an AI transformation that we're taking extremely seriously, and we want to take advantage of all these opportunities that open a head. And so I think as we bring somebody like Ethan with his knowledge of having run products for hundreds of millions of customers and the same on Eric, we are just getting prepared for the next stage.

我們正處於人工智慧轉型之中，我們對此非常重視，我們希望利用所有這些可以開拓思路的機會。因此，我認為，當我們引進像 Ethan 這樣擁有為數億客戶營運產品經驗的人，以及 Eric 擁有相同經驗的人時，我們就是在為下一階段做好準備。

So to summarize, I do think these additions are -- help us both strengthening the market-leading position we have in Brazil and Latin America by upping up our game and also prepare us to really go play in the big leagues as we think about internationalization over the next few years.

總而言之，我確實認為這些補充可以幫助我們透過提升我們的競爭力來加強我們在巴西和拉丁美洲的市場領先地位，同時也讓我們為在未來幾年考慮國際化時真正進入大聯盟做好準備。

Perfect. Thanks a lot of you.

完美的。非常感謝你。

Thank you, Roseman.

謝謝你，羅斯曼。

Operator, could you open the line for Jorge Kuri for Morgan Stanley?

接線生，您能接通摩根士丹利的 Jorge Kuri 的電話嗎？

Hi everyone, congrats on the numbers. Great quarter. I wanted to maybe double-click on your slide 11, your loan origination. You have 1% FX neutral -- 1% FX neutral growth, I'm sorry, which is a very different number from what we've seen over the last year, where the quarter-on-quarter growth were in the double digit. And I appreciate that the year-on-year number is really strong, 43% FX neutral, and that's certainly a better way to look at it.

大家好，恭喜你取得這些數字。很棒的一個季度。我想雙擊您的第 11 張投影片，即您的貸款發放。你有 1% 的外匯中性 - 1% 的外匯中性增長，對不起，這與我們去年看到的數字非常不同，去年的季度環比增長率是兩位數。我很欣賞同比數字確實很強勁，43% 的外匯中性，這當然是一種更好的看待它的方式。

But just given some of the things that happened in the quarter, specifically on your credit line increases, your clips or credit cards that you started to implement and reach record levels for the company, given that you are extracting more value out of your Hyperplane acquisition, given that we saw a big acceleration of pigs at the end of the first quarter that we assumed it was going to continue or has continued during the quarter.

但是考慮到本季度發生的一些事情，特別是您的信用額度增加，您開始實施的剪輯或信用卡，並達到公司的創紀錄水平，考慮到您從 Hyperplane 收購中獲取了更多價值，考慮到我們在第一季度末看到豬的數量大幅加速，我們認為這種情況將會持續或在本季度持續下去。

So if you can help us understand if some of these things are just not reflected in the numbers, going to get reflected going forward? And any other dynamics for us to understand this different half of originations in the second quarter versus what we've seen over the last year? Thank you very much.

因此，如果您能幫助我們理解，如果其中一些事情沒有反映在數字中，那麼將來會得到反映嗎？還有什麼其他動態可以幫助我們了解第二季度與去年同期相比這一半不同的起源情況嗎？非常感謝。

Hi, Jorge, this is Lago. Thanks for the question. So let me try to unpack this in by asset classes. So let me talk about kind of the slide 11 to which aloud brings kind of the evolution of originations only for loans. I'm going to try to address unsecured, then secure and then credit cards, which are not here.

你好，豪爾赫，我是拉戈。謝謝你的提問。因此，讓我嘗試按資產類別來解釋這一點。因此，讓我來談談第 11 張幻燈片，其中大聲介紹了貸款發放的演變。我將嘗試先解決無擔保卡問題，然後是擔保卡問題，最後是信用卡問題，但這些都不在這裡。

So starting with unsecured, we have had a fairly robust set of kind of growth figures over the past quarters. We had an exceptionally strong first quarter of 2025, especially because it was a quarter in which we launched a few new kind of models and policies that allow us to embrace customers that were not eligible for unsecured credit lines at that point in time. And usually, when you do so, you have kind of the first time effect of early kind of adopters of the new policy, which kind of increases the origination volumes.

因此，從無擔保貸款開始，我們在過去幾季中獲得了相當強勁的成長數據。2025 年第一季我們的業績異常強勁，尤其是因為我們在該季度推出了一些新模式和政策，使我們能夠接納當時沒有資格獲得無擔保信貸額度的客戶。通常，當你這樣做時，你會對新政策的早期採用者產生第一印象，從而增加發起量。

And also first quarter for unsecured credit is typically a seasonally strong quarter. We do expect, Jorge, that we will continue to grow unsecured lending originations fairly strongly throughout the remainder of 2025 and 2026, as long as we continue to see the asset quality numbers that we are seeing in our book, not only until the end of the second quarter but until today, August 14, everything seems to be super on track.

而且無擔保信貸的第一季通常是一個季節性強勁的季度。豪爾赫，我們確實預計，在 2025 年剩餘時間和 2026 年，我們的無擔保貸款發放量將繼續保持強勁增長，只要我們繼續看到賬簿上顯示的資產質量數字，不僅到第二季度末，而且到今天 8 月 14 日，一切似乎都進展順利。

We believe that we now account for over 20% of the origination market share of new unsecured loans in Brazil. And this should not only continue to gain speed, but it should be complemented by lending products in Mexico that have recently been launched. So feeling fairly good about the evolution of unsecured loans.

我們相信，我們目前佔據巴西新無擔保貸款發放市場份額的 20% 以上。這項進程不僅會持續加快，還會與墨西哥最近推出的貸款產品相輔相成。因此，我對無擔保貸款的發展感到相當樂觀。

Now going to the secured loan story, Jorge. I think here, I would have to split the story here in two sub-asset classes. So you have the INSS and the public payroll loans, excluding INSS. So for those who are not aware, INSS is the public payroll loans directed to pensioners and retires. In the second quarter, there was kind of a major disruption in the INSS system.

現在來談談擔保貸款的故事，豪爾赫。我想在這裡，我必須將故事分為兩個子資產類別。因此，您有 INSS 和公共薪資貸款，但不包括 INSS。對於那些不知道的人來說，INSS 是針對退休金領取者和退休人員的公共薪資貸款。第二季度，INSS 系統出現了重大中斷。

So the overall volume of the origination of the industry dropped by more than 50% to 55%. And our origination dropped by about 50% as well. We even gained market share there, but in a declining kind of origination quarter. We do expect that this will be fixed and resolved very promptly. We are assuming that by end of August, early September, origination of INSS not only for us but for the entire industry will resume their historical growth. Most likely, in fact, we may see actually a spike in originations in the next months to offset the lower originations.

因此，該行業的整體起源量下降了50％至55％以上。我們的起源也下降了約 50%。我們甚至在那裡獲得了市場份額，但起源季度卻在下降。我們確實希望這個問題能很快得到修復和解決。我們預計，到 8 月底、9 月初，不僅我們，整個產業的 INSS 起源都將恢復歷史成長。事實上，最有可能的是，我們可能會看到未來幾個月發動量激增，以抵消發起量的下降。

Now if you exclude INSS for all of the other public payroll loans are, especially SIAPE, our originations grew by more than 50% in the quarter. So we are making very good strides in our view in the ramp-up of the public payroll loans there, not only by kind of adding more customers to existing contracts, but also by end more contracts kind of to our portfolio of collateral agreements, a few of which will come into force in the second half of this year.

現在，如果將 INSS 排除在所有其他公共工資貸款之外，尤其是 SIAPE，我們的發放量在本季度增加了 50% 以上。因此，我們認為，我們在增加公共工資貸款方面取得了非常好的進展，不僅透過在現有合約中增加更多客戶，而且還透過終止更多合約來增加我們的抵押協議組合，其中一些將於今年下半年生效。

And then if you look at the overall evolution of our portfolio, then I would draw your attention to slide 27, Jorge, you will see that even with kind of this one-off headwind from INSS, we continue to see all of the asset classes, expanding at what we believe to be a fairly healthy pace. So in the quarter, portfolio grew by 8% FX-neutral, and that growth was followed by loans, credit cards, IEP and credit cards, non-IEP.

然後，如果您看一下我們投資組合的整體演變，那麼我想請您注意第 27 張幻燈片，豪爾赫，您會發現，即使面臨來自 INSS 的這種一次性逆風，我們仍然看到所有資產類別都在以我們認為相當健康的速度擴張。因此，在本季度，投資組合成長了 8%，不計匯率影響，緊隨其後的是貸款、信用卡、IEP 和非 IEP 信用卡。

And my last attempt to address your question. You also mentioned credit cards. So look, credit cards Yes, we have been seeing kind of a fairly material improvements in our ability to do credit underwriting and to continue to expand the credit card portfolio.

這是我最後一次嘗試回答您的問題。您還提到了信用卡。所以看看信用卡，是的，我們已經看到我們的信用承保能力和繼續擴大信用卡組合的能力有了相當大的改善。

It has to do with the adoption of new models and technologies to how we do credit underwriting, going all the way to better kind of traditional machine learning models, but also neuro networks and predictive AI technologies, but more and more horrid by the adoption of new data that we acquired, right?

這與我們如何進行信用核保採用新模型和新技術有關，一路走來，不僅有更好的傳統機器學習模型，還有神經網路和預測人工智慧技術，但我們所獲得的新數據的採用卻越來越可怕，對吧？

So the more customers stay with us, the more data we accumulate, we are now the leaders in open finance consent. The combination of better modeling technique with more data has allowed us to consistently increase kind of credit underwriting, credit limits and utilizations.

因此，與我們合作的客戶越多，我們累積的數據就越多，我們現在就是開放式金融同意領域的領導者。更好的建模技術與更多數據的結合使我們能夠持續增加信用承保種類、信用額度和利用率。

Based on our latest reading, our market share in Brazil in credit card receivables may have grown by more than 100 basis points in this quarter specifically. So we are fairly encouraged by what is ahead of us, not only in the existing segments, but also as we expand into new segments.

根據我們最新的數據，本季我們在巴西的信用卡應收帳款市場佔有率可能增加了 100 多個基點。因此，我們對未來的發展感到非常鼓舞，不僅在現有領域，而且在我們向新領域拓展的過程中。

Thank you, Lago, that was super clear. Thanks for all the additional details, and congrats on the quarter and all of the great new hires.

謝謝你，Lago，你說得非常清楚。感謝您提供的所有補充細節，並祝賀本季度取得的成績以及所有優秀的新員工。

Thanks, Jorge.

謝謝，豪爾赫。

Operator, could you please open the line for Yuri Fernandes from JPMorgan.

接線生，請您接通摩根大通的尤里‧費爾南德斯的電話。

Thank you and good afternoon and also congrats on the margin, the risk-adjusted margin expansion and good quarter. I have a follow-up also to Lago just on asset quality. Most metrics, they look good, right, stable overage to 90 days improving slightly better than seasonality. The only thing that caught my attention, Lago, was a higher Stage 3 formation up quarter over quarter. I would like to get your view on this because when I go to 2024 and 2023.

謝謝，下午好，也祝賀利潤率、風險調整後利潤率的擴大和良好的季度業績。我還想跟進一下 Lago 的資產品質問題。大多數指標看起來都不錯，對吧，穩定的超額到 90 天的改善比季節性略好。唯一引起我注意的是，Lago 第三階段的陣型比上一季有所提升。我想聽聽你對此的看法，因為當我去到 2024 年和 2023 年。

I also saw some seasonality in the second Q. So just checking if this is basically seasonal from your answer to put it I get an impression that you feel comfortable with asset quality but even we have many investors concerned with the macro situation in Brazil? It would be good to get your feeling on the formation and also how you see asset fund. Thank you.

我在第二個問題中也看到了一些季節性。所以只是檢查一下這是否基本上是季節性的，從您的回答來看，我得到的印像是您對資產品質感到滿意，但即使我們有很多投資者擔心巴西的宏觀情況？了解您對資產基金的形成有何感受以及您如何看待資產基金將會很有好處。謝謝。

No, thanks, Yuri, for the question. So the short answer is yes. I think the increase in NPL formation as well as in Stage 3 formation that you can see on slide 26 of our presentation, is almost entirely explained by the seasonality of basically the spike in seasonal delinquency in the first quarter, kind of flowing through the second quarter.

不，謝謝你，尤里，提出這個問題。所以簡短的回答是肯定的。我認為，不良貸款形成率的增加以及第三階段形成的增加（您可以在我們的簡報的第 26 張幻燈片中看到）幾乎完全可以用季節性來解釋，基本上第一季的季節性拖欠率激增，並延續到第二季度。

Now broadly on asset quality, we are fairly mindful of the macroeconomic kind of situations in the markets where we operate Brazil, Mexico and Colombia, also how it may impact our credit cycles. And this is a concern that has lingered not only with us but also with many investors and other stakeholders since late last year and early this year.

現在，就資產品質而言，我們非常關注我們經營所在市場巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的宏觀經濟狀況，以及它可能如何影響我們的信貸週期。自去年年底和今年年初以來，這項擔憂不僅一直困擾著我們，也困擾著許多投資者和其他利害關係人。

So far, and I say so far until now, August 14, we haven't seen kind of that deterioration playing out materially in our asset quality figures. All of our asset quality figures are performing largely as expected. That doesn't, of course, mean that we have to assume that this will stay as it is going forward.

到目前為止，也就是說直到 8 月 14 日，我們還沒有看到資產品質數據出現實質的惡化。我們所有資產品質數據的表現基本上都符合預期。當然，這並不意味著我們必須假設這種情況會持續下去。

We continue to underwrite with kind of largely two kind of pillars in our mind. Pillar number 1 we always assume that the future will be worse than the past. So irrespective of where any of us here the company may think we are in the credit cycle.

我們將繼續以兩種主要支柱為核心進行承保。支柱一：我們總是假設未來會比過去更糟。因此，無論我們身處何處，公司都可能認為我們處於信貸週期。

When it comes to credit underwriting decisions. We always assume that there's going to be a deterioration in the credit cycle over the next 12, 24 and 36 months. And then above and beyond that, which is pillar number two, every cohort of unsecured credit that we underwrite has to abide by the following kind of a stress test, which is losses can go up by up to and that cohort still has to be NPV positive. So with that, we built enough credit buffer resilience that will allow us to continue to grow conservatively and conviction with conviction that we can withstand kind of unfavorable economic cycles over time.

當涉及到信用承保決策時。我們始終認為未來 12、24 和 36 個月信貸週期將會惡化。除此之外，這是第二大支柱，我們承保的每一批無擔保信貸都必須遵守以下壓力測試，即損失最多可以增加到，而這批信貸的淨現值仍然必須為正。因此，我們建立了足夠的信貸緩衝彈性，這將使我們能夠繼續保守地成長，並堅信我們可以隨著時間的推移承受不利的經濟週期。

Very clear. Thank you, Lago, and congrats again.

非常清楚。謝謝你，Lago，再次恭喜你。

Thanks, Yuri.

謝謝，尤里。

Operator, could you please open the line to Geoffrey Elliott from Autonomous.

接線生，請您接通 Autonomous 公司的 Geoffrey Elliott 的電話。

Hello, thanks very much for taking the question. Could we talk about the mix of credit card balances? The last five quarters, interest earning installments have been between 27% and 29% of total balances. Are we now in a range which is normalized and where you'd expect to stay? Or is there Scope 4 that's to move higher with increased originations of [Pix] credit? Thank you.

您好，非常感謝您提出這個問題。我們可以討論一下信用卡餘額的組合嗎？過去五個季度，計息分期付款佔總餘額的 27% 至 29%。我們現在是否處於正常化範圍內並且您期望保持在該範圍內？或者，隨著 [Pix] 信用額度的增加，範圍 4 是否會進一步提高？謝謝。

Thanks, Geoff. Look, I think I would say they should stay more or less where it is. maybe kind of small variations up or down, maybe a little bit upside risk here depending on how pronounced Pix financing and other transaction financing products may unfold. But I wouldn't suggest that there is a lot of room for us to go materially beyond the 29% that you alluded.

謝謝，傑夫。聽著，我想說他們應該或多或少保持現狀。可能會有小幅的上漲或下跌，可能會有一點上行風險，這取決於 Pix 融資和其他交易融資產品的進展。但我並不認為我們有很大空間可以實質上超越您所提到的 29%。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

Operator, could you please open the line for Neha Agarwala from HSBC?

接線員，請您接通匯豐銀行 Neha Agarwala 的電話好嗎？

Hi. Thank you for taking my question and congratulations on the numbers. Quickly on the deposit side of the franchise, to notable trends. First, on the Brazil, there was a big pickup sequentially on the deposits. What was the driver for that? Are you trying -- are you being more active consciously in trying to gather more deposits in Brazil? So any explanation on that?

你好。感謝您回答我的問題，並祝賀您取得這樣的成績。存款方面的特許經營權迅速壯大，呈現顯著趨勢。首先，巴西的存款連續大幅增加。造成這種情況的原因是什麼？您是否正在努力工作—您是否正在有意識地更積極地嘗試在巴西累積更多的存款？對此有什麼解釋嗎？

And on the Mexico side, you brought down the rates quite significantly lowered the gap versus the tier. What have been the early reactions from the customers? Are you seeing outflow of deposits in July, early August? Or has that been fairly stable?

在墨西哥方面，你們大幅降低了利率，並縮小了與其他等級之間的差距。客戶的早期反應如何？您是否看到 7 月、8 月初出現存款流出？或者說已經相當穩定了？

No, Neha, thanks for the question. So let me try to break it down. In Brazil, we did see or we continue to see an increase in deposits there. I think that has to do primarily with the increase in engagement and share of wallet that we have had with our customers. I would not ascribe a lot of value to that to any kind of initiatives to pay up for deposits in Brazil, even though we have launched a few new features that kind of a reward customer engagement and loyalty over time.

不，Neha，謝謝你的提問。因此，讓我嘗試將其分解。在巴西，我們確實看到或繼續看到那裡的存款增加。我認為這主要與我們與客戶的互動和錢包份額的增加有關。儘管我們已經推出了一些新功能，可以隨著時間的推移獎勵客戶的參與度和忠誠度，但我認為任何支付巴西押金的措施都不會具有很大的價值。

If you were to compare, for example, the cost of funding of Brazil in isolation, it would have been practically unchanged over the past two quarters at kind of low-80s. So I wouldn't justify the increase in deposits based on increase in cost of funding, but largely on increasing customer engagement and sequential gains in shares of wallet. Also, kind of progressively as we make some strides into more affluent segments. It's natural that we should also see increases in deposits over time. So that's a story about Brazil.

例如，如果單獨比較巴西的融資成本，你會發現過去兩個季度的融資成本幾乎沒有變化，大約在 80% 左右。因此，我不會以融資成本增加為由來證明存款增加的合理性，而主要依據是客戶參與度的提高和錢包份額的連續增長。而且，隨著我們朝著更富裕的領域邁進，我們也逐漸取得進展。隨著時間的推移，我們也應該看到存款增加，這是很自然的。這就是關於巴西的故事。

The story about Mexico, just to maybe put everyone in perspective, Neha, if you allow me. So we did announce some material shifts to the design and the pricing of our deposits in Mexico. In early July, and that is expected to lead to kind of the lowering of our cost of funding in Mexico. None of that, however, is reflected in the numbers that we see here in the second quarter. So those are things that we will see throughout the remainder of 2025.

關於墨西哥的故事，也許只是為了讓每個人都能看清楚，Neha，如果你允許的話。因此，我們確實宣布了對墨西哥礦藏的設計和定價的一些重大調整。七月初，預計這將導致我們在墨西哥的融資成本降低。然而，這些都沒有反映在第二季的數據中。這些都是我們將在 2025 年剩餘時間內看到的事情。

Now to your question, Neha, look, we have been watching this super carefully since we've made the movements. Everything has been kind of evolving as expected. As we continue to offer them what we call the money box capped now at [MXN25,000]

現在回答你的問題，Neha，你看，自從我們做出這些舉動以來，我們就一直在非常仔細地觀察這件事。一切都在預期發展。我們繼續為他們提供所謂的錢箱，目前上限為[25,000 墨西哥比索]

It basically allows us to even better serve and offer an even stronger value proposition for the vast majority of our customers, nearly 90% of the customers. And so we believe that we will be able to maintain customer engagement NPS at the segments that we care the most.

它基本上使我們能夠為絕大多數客戶（近 90％ 的客戶）提供更好的服務並提供更強大的價值主張。因此，我們相信，我們將能夠在我們最關心的領域中保持客戶參與度 NPS。

We did run kind of some risk of having what people call the yield seekers eventually moving their money out that outflow has not been material so far, even though we watch this carefully. So far, so good, Neha. If things continue to play out as we have seen, we do expect to be able to continue to have a fairly robust local currency, low-cost retail deposits in Mexico that has already materially derisked our funding strategy in the country, but progressively at lower funding costs.

我們確實冒了一定的風險，即人們所說的收益追求者最終會將資金轉移出去，儘管我們密切關注這一情況，但到目前為止，資金流出並不顯著。到目前為止一切都很好，Neha。如果事情繼續按照我們所看到的方式發展，我們確實希望能夠繼續在墨西哥擁有相當強勁的當地貨幣、低成本的零售存款，這已經大大降低了我們在該國的融資策略的風險，但融資成本正在逐步降低。

I would just add one more point here, to Lago, which is the following. When we launched Mexico, our savings account product was fairly basic. It was an online saving account without a lot of the functionalities. We didn't even have ability to allow customers to deposit off-line or to withdraw, which is very key in a market like Mexico. So in a way, it was a product -- it was truly an MVP as we launched.

我只想在這裡向 Lago 補充一點，內容如下。當我們在墨西哥推出儲蓄帳戶產品時，我們的儲蓄帳戶產品相當基礎。這是一個沒有很多功能的網路儲蓄帳戶。我們甚至沒有能力讓客戶進行線下存款或提款，而這在墨西哥這樣的市場中非常關鍵。所以從某種程度上來說，它是一種產品——當我們推出它時，它確實是一個 MVP。

That meant that we had to pay higher yield. As we launch additional products and the product gets much more robust, we've added [OXXO] as a distribution channel. Customers are now able to withdraw cash. We've added a number of what we call self-driving bank functionalities inside our app, then the value proposition increases, that means we have to compensate less on the yield. And that's why we've been able to decrease yield without seeing significant changes in the flows of deposits we're seeing into Mexico. And the same strategy has really been applied to Brazil and Colombia.

這意味著我們必須支付更高的收益。隨著我們推出更多產品並且產品變得更加強大，我們增加了 [OXXO] 作為分銷管道。顧客現在可以提領現金。我們在應用程式中添加了許多所謂的自動駕駛銀行功能，然後價值主張就增加了，這意味著我們在收益上需要付出的補償更少。這就是為什麼我們能夠降低收益率，而流入墨西哥的存款卻沒有重大變化。同樣的策略也確實被應用在巴西和哥倫比亞。

Super clear. Thank you for that. If I can have my follow-up on a separate topic, but a brief one. The Hyperplane expansion in the credit limit that you talked about, is there any particular segment of customer base where it is more targeted towards higher income or mass market or your super core segments? Because that will eventually have an impact on probably stronger loan growth in the second half of -- or in 2026 for your loan book? Thank you so much.

超級清晰。謝謝你。如果我可以就另一個主題進行跟進，但請簡短一點。您談到的 Hyperplane 信用額度擴展，是否有任何特定的客戶群更針對高收入或大眾市場或超級核心細分市場？因為這最終會對下半年或 2026 年貸款帳簿的更強勁貸款成長產生影響？太感謝了。

So far has been mostly focused on mass market, but we expect that a lot of these new AI abled architecture will be now applied to a number of different models. The amazing opportunity of Hyperplane is that it's not only a modeling -- the team did not only bring a number of modeling capabilities, but also a true new platform that allows us to putting to production and develop a number of different models at the same time.

到目前為止，主要關注大眾市場，但我們預計，許多新的人工智慧架構現在將應用於許多不同的模型。Hyperplane 的驚人機會在於它不僅僅是一個建模——團隊不僅帶來了許多建模功能，而且還帶來了一個真正的新平台，使我們能夠投入生產並同時開發許多不同的模型。

And so this model was the first one. We expect a number of new models coming in for a number of different segments for the different countries and for different applications, such as collections, fraud, cross-sell. So we're very excited about this, and it's early days of applying this new technology to a lot of the decisioning that we have across Nubank. But we expect to see meaningful changes across the board.

所以這個模型是第一個。我們期望針對不同國家、不同領域和不同應用（如收款、詐欺、交叉銷售）推出多種新模型。因此，我們對此感到非常興奮，現在我們正將這項新技術應用到 Nubank 的許多決策中，這還處於早期階段。但我們期望看到全面而有意義的改變。

Operator, could you please open the line for Pedro Leduc from Itau?

接線員，您能為來自伊塔烏的佩德羅·勒杜克接通電話嗎？

Hi, good evening, everybody. Thank you so much for the question. Both on cards, please. First, the number that you give us, and this has to do with [Pix] financing that the number of clients using transactionally fell a bit [17.3 to 17.1] this quarter.

大家好，晚上好。非常感謝您的提問。請將兩張卡都寫上。首先，您給我們的數字與 [Pix] 融資有關，本季使用交易的客戶數量略有下降 [從 17.3 下降到 17.1]。

In last call, you had mentioned that you had slightly become more comfortable to gradually resume the product to those certain clusters you had withdrawn from after tests have worked well. So can you give us an update on the Pix financing process? When -- how you see it roll out when you can see it to get more traction?

在上次通話中，您提到，在測試運作良好之後，您會稍微更願意逐漸將產品恢復到您之前退出的那些特定集群。那您能向我們介紹一下 Pix 融資進程的最新情況嗎？當——您認為它會如何推出，當您可以看到它獲得更多的吸引力時？

And then the second question, just -- it's sort of related has to do with the number of active credit cards and that has also fallen a bit. And we can see that you're rolling out more limits I'd sort of expect the opposite no more active cards. So if you can help us square this out a little bit. Thank you.

然後是第二個問題，只是 - 這與活躍信用卡的數量有關，而且這一數量也有所下降。我們可以看到，您正在推出更多的限制，我預計情況會相反，不再有活躍的卡片。所以如果你能幫助我們解決這個問題。謝謝。

So, Leduc, thanks for the question. Let me try to touch on each of them separately, so Pix financing. Pix financing or better said, the whole transactional financing kind of a family of products, of which today picks financing is by far the biggest one.

所以，Leduc，謝謝你的提問。讓我嘗試分別談談它們，例如 Pix 融資。Pix 融資，或者更確切地說，整個交易融資類產品家族，其中今天的 Picks 融資是迄今為止最大的一個。

But that continues to grow. We did show in the last quarter that we had resumed growth there that we were at the end of the first quarter already now -- with a bigger kind of Pix financing and transactional financing portfolio than we had in the second quarter of 2024 when we decided to pull back. That only continue to increase. So today, we are even ahead of what we were we were in the first quarter of 2025.

但這一數字仍在持續成長。我們確實在上個季度表明我們已經恢復了成長，現在已經到了第一季末——我們的 Pix 融資和交易融資組合比我們決定撤出的 2024 年第二季更大。這一數字只會繼續增加。因此，今天我們甚至比 2025 年第一季的水準還要高。

The performance of the portfolio continues to be fairly robust and it has been widely adopted by our customer base. So you may see, Leduc, here a few kind of noise in seasonality when you go from one quarter to another.

該產品組合的表現持續相當強勁，並已被我們的客戶群廣泛採用。因此，Leduc，您可能會看到，當從一個季度到另一個季度時，這裡會出現幾種季節性噪音。

But by all measures, it has been kind of a remarkable success for the customers. It has been adopted by -- so I think as of the end of the second quarter, over 40% of our credit card customers were also active with some type of transactional financing, primarily Pix financing functionality. So the attach rate there is very high, very healthy, not only in the first order, but also in the second order impact.

但無論從哪方面來看，這對客戶來說都是一次非凡的成功。它已被採用——所以我認為截至第二季末，超過 40% 的信用卡客戶也積極使用某種類型的交易融資，主要是 Pix 融資功能。因此，那裡的附加率非常高，非常健康，不僅在一階，而且在二階影響。

So we do expect this to continue to grow. It certainly has a high correlation with the overall usage of Pix in the economy, but we don't have any concerns as we discussed when we presented the results of the third quarter of 2024. So far, so good.

因此我們確實預計這一數字將繼續增長。它肯定與 Pix 在經濟中的整體使用情況高度相關，但正如我們在展示 2024 年第三季結果時所討論的那樣，我們沒有任何擔憂。到目前為止，一切都很好。

Second question that I also wanted to address, which is credit cards. So we as the number of active credit card customers in Brazil, depending if you measure this in terms of purchase volume or in terms of revenues, has remained largely flat, right?

我還想討論的第二個問題是信用卡。因此，我們作為巴西的活躍信用卡客戶數量（取決於您以購買量還是收入來衡量）基本上保持不變，對嗎？

So it's like in one measure, it goes by plus 100,000. The other one -- the other measure, it goes less than 100,000, but overall, it has remained flat. What we do expect to see going forward is that the main lever of earnings growth for our credit card business in Brazil will mostly come from the increase of utilization in ARPAC per product rather than the increase of the number of credit cards. It doesn't mean that the number of credit cards will not grow. Yes, it will continue to grow, but I think the biggest leverage will be in ARPAC and utilization.

因此，就像在一次測量中，它增加了 100,000。另一個指標，雖然不到 10 萬，但總體而言，保持平穩。我們確實希望看到，未來我們在巴西的信用卡業務獲利成長的主要槓桿將主要來自於每件產品的 ARPAC 使用率的增加，而不是信用卡數量的增加。這並不意味著信用卡的數量不會增加。是的，它會繼續增長，但我認為最大的槓桿作用將在於 ARPAC 和利用率。

And then you mentioned, look, if you are increasing eventually credit limits, shouldn't you see necessarily an increase in a number of active customers, not yet especially because the credit limit policies that we have implemented has been directed primarily at existing customers, not at initial lines. It is only natural that as we collect more data as we continue to improve the models. What you suggested will likely to happen as well.

然後您提到，請看，如果您最終增加信用額度，您是否應該看到活躍客戶數量必然增加，但目前還沒有，特別是因為我們實施的信用額度政策主要針對現有客戶，而不是初始額度。隨著我們收集到越來越多的數據，我們不斷改進模型，這是很自然的。您所建議的事情也很可能會發生。

That's great, Lago. Thank you.

太棒了，拉戈。謝謝。

Operator, could you please open the line for Mario Pierry from Bank of America.

接線員，請您接通美國銀行的 Mario Pierry 的電話。

Hey guys, good evening. Congrats on the quarter. Thanks for taking my question. Lago, I wanted to discuss a little bit the private payroll product. You -- it doesn't seem like Nubank is too excited about the product, or at least I haven't heard you guys talk too much about the opportunity.

大家好，晚上好。恭喜本季取得佳績。感謝您回答我的問題。拉戈，我想稍微討論一下私人薪資產品。您——Nubank 似乎對該產品並不太感興趣，或者至少我沒有聽到你們談論太多關於這個機會的事情。

When we talk to other industry players, right, they think this is one of the best products to come to Brazil in the last, I don't know, 20 years. So -- and again, we talk about the potential size of this market being significant.

當我們與其他行業參與者交談時，他們認為這是過去 20 年進入巴西的最好的產品之一。所以——我們再次強調，這個市場的潛在規模非常巨大。

Can you discuss a little bit about your strategy in the private payroll product? Like looking at our origination data, right, we haven't seen being very active yet. When do you think you're going to be more active? Why are you holding back? Are you seeing this product as an opportunity? Or do you think this is a threat to your business? Thank you.

能否稍微討論一下您在私人薪資產品方面的策略？就像查看我們的起源數據一樣，對，我們還沒有看到非常活躍的情況。您認為什麼時候您會變得更活躍？你為何退縮？您是否將此產品視為一個機會？或者您認為這對您的業務構成威脅？謝謝。

Mario, thanks for the question. Look, we are very excited about private payroll product. We think that has been a fairly important and thoughtful product innovation that has been added to Brazil. And I think new bank has much more to gain than to lose with this product by a wide margin. Let me share a few thoughts on this, right?

馬裡奧，謝謝你的提問。看，我們對私人薪資產品感到非常興奮。我們認為這是巴西推出的一項相當重要且深思熟慮的產品創新。我認為新銀行透過該產品所獲得的收益將遠大於損失。讓我分享一些對此的想法，好嗎？

So we -- differently from kind of the more established kind of incumbent banks, we don't have kind of a B2B, B2C distribution channel to kind of -- to compete for corporate payroll and business in Brazil, which is a fairly important one.

因此，與更成熟的現有銀行不同，我們沒有 B2B、B2C 分銷管道來爭奪巴西的企業工資和業務，而這是一個相當重要的管道。

And basically, the private payroll loan product allow us to basically break into this segment in a very profitable manner, right? I don't need necessarily now to have a B2B contract with company X to be able to access all of the employees of this company and also enjoy the benefits of the payroll flow that goes through the bank account.

基本上，私人工資貸款產品使我們能夠以非常有利可圖的方式打入這一領域，對嗎？我現在不一定需要與 X 公司簽訂 B2B 合約才能接觸到該公司的所有員工，同時還能享受透過銀行帳戶的薪資流帶來的好處。

I can have access to tons of data that so far, we have been kind of precluded from having access to. So we expect that this product will improve kind of collaterals across the board. We'll lower data symmetry and therefore, will help the overall economy lower spreads and materially increase the size of the pie. So far, so good.

我可以存取大量數據，而迄今為止，我們無法存取這些數據。因此，我們預期該產品將全面改善抵押品種類。我們將降低數據對稱性，從而幫助整體經濟降低利差並實質地增加蛋糕的規模。到目前為止，一切都很好。

Why are -- why have we not been kind of as aggressive inception of this product? So the product was announced in late March. We launched the product right after this in early April. But we have not yet been kind of fully -- kind of we haven't been able to raise our comfort levels to adequate levels with respect to the quality of the collateral, right? So I think some of the collateral that are structural to this product have not yet been fully tested and implemented.

為什麼——為什麼我們沒有積極地推出這款產品？因此該產品於三月底發售。我們在四月初就推出了該產品。但是我們還沒有完全——我們還沒有能夠將我們對抵押品品質的舒適度提高到足夠的水平，對嗎？因此我認為該產品的一些結構性附屬品尚未經過全面測試和實施。

And the first data points that we have actually seen in the industry has suggested to us that the risk has not yet been fully addressed. So first payment defaults are set to be in the 10% to 18%, which I think it is higher than what at least we would expect so far. So we are not yet fully comfortable with the quality of the collateral, number one.

我們在產業中實際看到的第一個數據點告訴我們，風險尚未完全解決。因此，首次付款違約率設定為 10% 至 18%，我認為這至少高於我們目前的預期。因此，首先，我們對抵押品的品質還不完全放心。

Number two, we don't see necessarily material first-mover advantages there. I think if we are the lowest cost manufacturer of this product, we will be able to secure a very meaningful market share position when the collateral system is more tested and solidified.

第二，我們並不認為有實質的先發優勢。我認為，如果我們是產品成本最低的製造商，那麼當抵押品系統經過進一步測試和鞏固後，我們將能夠確保非常有意義的市場份額地位。

But Mario, you've been doing this for a long time like many of us, and you may recall that at the beginning of the public payroll systems, the [consignado publico], the collateral was not working super well in the first months or even in the first quarters it took some time, but the product actually end up being a remarkable success.

但是馬裡奧，像我們許多人一樣，你已經做了很長時間了，你可能還記得，在公共工資系統（consignado publico）剛開始的時候，抵押品在頭幾個月甚至第一個季度都沒有發揮出應有的作用，雖然花了一些時間，但該產品最終取得了顯著的成功。

We do expect that private payroll loan will follow suit, and we believe that as the lowest cost manufacturer of the industry, with no more than 50% of the target market for this product within our customer base. We will have a fairly relevant ability to win there, when the product is more mature.

我們確實預期私人薪資貸款也會效仿，我們相信，作為業內成本最低的製造商，在我們的客戶群中，該產品的目標市場不超過 50%。當產品更加成熟時，我們將擁有相當相關的獲勝能力。

Yeah. Okay. No, that's clear. Some of the players that we're seeing right already more active in this segment, they are talking about, yes, we're seeing higher elevated provisions and delinquencies, however, they still think that this is a 30% ROE product right now. So it feels like it could get even better.

是的。好的。不，這很清楚。我們看到一些參與者已經在這個領域更加活躍，他們正在談論，是的，我們看到更高的撥備和拖欠率，但是，他們仍然認為這現在是一個 30% ROE 的產品。所以感覺它可能會變得更好。

So I was just wondering, right, like I understand your concerns about the quality of the collateral. It's a new product. However, right, Nubank is always moving ahead of everyone else and trying to innovate. So that's why I was a little bit surprised that you're not more active right now, but I fully understand your concerns. Thank you.

所以我只是想知道，對吧，就像我理解您對抵押品品質的擔憂一樣。這是一個新產品。然而，Nubank 始終走在其他人的前面並努力創新。所以這就是為什麼我對你現在不那麼活躍感到有點驚訝，但我完全理解你的擔憂。謝謝。

Thank you, Mario.

謝謝你，馬裡奧。

Operator, could you please open the line for Tito Labarta from Goldman Sachs?

接線生，請您接通高盛的 Tito Labarta 的電話好嗎？

Hi, good evening. Thank you for the call, and taking my questions, and congratulations on the strong results. A little bit of a follow-up, but just how do you think about your loan growth along with your deposit growth, right, because loan growth seems to be accelerating. You're doing well there, but deposit growth remains very strong. On the one hand, it's a headwind to earnings. But on the other hand, it's good for client engagement and client addition.

嗨，晚上好。感謝您的來電並回答我的問題，並祝賀您取得的優異成績。稍微跟進一下，但您如何看待貸款成長和存款成長，對嗎，因為貸款成長似乎正在加速。你們在那裡做得很好，但存款成長仍然非常強勁。一方面，這對獲利來說是一個阻力。但另一方面，這有利於客戶參與和客戶增加。

Are you comfortable just continuing to grow that deposit book and get these clients even if it is a bit of a headwind to earnings or at some point, would you want to try to slow down the deposit growth to the loan growth. Just how do you think about, I guess, the assets and the liabilities growing in conjunction? Thank you.

您是否願意繼續增加存款並獲取這些客戶，即使這會對收益造成一些不利影響，或者在某個時候，您是否想嘗試減緩存款成長與貸款成長之間的差距。我想，您如何看待資產和負債的共同成長？謝謝。

Tito, thanks so much for the question. Look, a few thoughts there on how we are thinking about kind of deposits from both a financial standpoint. But also from a strategic standpoint. I would say that from a financial standpoint, we are very comfortable with the loan-to-deposit ratio that we see in Brazil, Mexico and Colombia, not only with respect to the quantum, but also with respect to the duration and with the resilience of the retail deposits.

蒂托，非常感謝你的提問。瞧，我們從財務角度考慮存款問題，有幾點想法。而且從策略角度來看也是如此。我想說，從財務角度來看，我們對巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的貸存比非常滿意，不僅在數量上，而且在期限和零售存款的彈性方面。

If anything, we have buffer to either grow credit more rapidly, but we don't think that growing kind of ride it more rapidly just because you have more funding is the most kind of a wise approach to this, or we would have the ability to eventually lower prices and bring deposits down. That's from a purely financial standpoint.

如果有什麼區別的話，那就是我們有緩衝來更快地增加信貸，但我們不認為僅僅因為有更多的資金就更快地增加信貸是一種明智的做法，或者我們最終有能力降低價格並減少存款。這是從純粹的財務角度來看的。

However, from a strategic standpoint, especially in markets where kind of information asymmetry is lowering very fast, including in Brazil with open finance. We do believe that we need to be the best place for our customers across Latin America to receive payments, make payments and store value. And to that extent, having a very competitive and compelling kind of a deposit design, which includes, but is not limited price is paramount to our primary banking relationship customers.

然而，從策略角度來看，特別是在資訊不對稱正在快速降低的市場中，包括開放金融的巴西。我們確實相信，我們需要成為拉丁美洲客戶收款、付款和儲值的最佳場所。從這個意義上講，擁有非常有競爭力和引人注目的存款設計（包括但不限於價格）對我們的主要銀行關係客戶至關重要。

So we don't expect that we will play down with no deposit rates in Brazil anytime soon. We do expect that in Mexico and Colombia, we will continue to actively kind of reshape the size and the price of the deposits to optimize the value proposition for the customers, loan to deposit and liquidity resilience there.

因此，我們預計巴西的無存款利率不會很快降低。我們確實希望在墨西哥和哥倫比亞，我們將繼續積極重塑存款的規模和價格，以優化客戶的價值主張、貸款與存款的比率以及流動性彈性。

So that's our thought process there. I think Mexico and Colombia, you should see increases in NIM as a result of that optimization. In Brazil, I think you should see kind of a relatively stable NIM with respect to the deposits only.

這就是我們的思考過程。我認為，由於這種優化，墨西哥和哥倫比亞的 NIM 應該會增加。在巴西，我認為你應該會看到僅與存款有關的相對穩定的淨利息收益率 (NIM)。

Okay. No, that's great. Very helpful. Thank you, Lago. And if I can, just a quick follow-up, I guess. When you think of client monetization, I'm looking at slide 18, gross profit breakdown, right? I mean credit is still a big component, fees have been around this 30% level for some time and then the rest is float. Do you think that's an optimal level? Is there an optimal level that you would like to get to? Just how do you think about that breakdown between, I guess, lending, fees and other sources of monetization?

好的。不，那太好了。非常有幫助。謝謝你，拉戈。如果可以的話，我想只是想快速跟進。當您想到客戶貨幣化時，我正在看第 18 張投影片，毛利細目，對嗎？我的意思是信貸仍然是一個很大的組成部分，費用在一段時間內一直保持在 30% 左右，其餘部分是浮動的。您認為這是最佳水平嗎？您希望達到的最佳水平是什麼？您如何看待貸款、費用和其他貨幣化來源之間的細分？

So Tito, the one thing that I would point out is I would kind of respond to this by sending you to another slide, which is slide 9, right? If you take a look at this slide, which is a very clear comparison between the revenues per active customers that we have and the cost per active customers that we have. Today, we have a weighted average ARPAC at about $12.20. The more mature cohorts are already at $27, $28. The ARPAC of incumbent banks are largely at $45.

所以 Tito，我要指出的一件事是，我會透過向您發送另一張投影片（即投影片 9）來回應這一點，對嗎？如果你看一下這張投影片，你會發現它非常清楚地比較了我們每個活躍客戶的收入和每個活躍客戶的成本。目前，我們的加權平均 ARPAC 約為 12.20 美元。較成熟的群體已經達到 27 美元或 28 美元。現有銀行的 ARPAC 大多為 45 美元。

So we do expect over time that we will take the ARPAC from [$12 to $15 to $20] and onwards towards the levels of incumbent banks, while our cost to serve will remain at or below $1. So that is kind of the power of the operating leverage of our digital banking model.

因此，我們確實希望隨著時間的推移，我們將把 ARPAC 從 [12 美元提高到 15 美元再到 20 美元]，並逐漸達到現有銀行的水平，而我們的服務成本將保持在 1 美元或以下。這就是我們的數位銀行模式的經營槓桿的力量。

Now what are the main levers for us to bring kind of the ARPAC from $12 to $30 to $40? If you take a look at the profit pool of retail banking in Latin America is a (inaudible), about 70%, 65% to 70% of that is credit. So credit is expected to be kind of the book of that growth going forward.

那麼，我們能透過哪些主要手段將 ARPAC 的價格從 12 美元提高到 30 美元甚至 40 美元呢？如果你看拉丁美洲零售銀行的利潤池，你會發現（聽不清楚），其中約 70%、65% 到 70% 是信貸。因此，信貸預計將成為未來經濟成長的標誌。

That does not mean, however, that all credit are created equally. You will have more secure credit, more unsecured credit, so the mix of credit will kind of shift, but I wouldn't be surprised if credit accounts for a substantial part of the ARPAC expansion.

但這並不意味著所有信用都是平等的。您將擁有更多有擔保的信貸、更多無擔保的信貸，因此信貸組合將發生某種轉變，但如果信貸佔 ARPAC 擴張的很大一部分，我不會感到驚訝。

And it's one of the reasons why we are so excited with kind of digital banking models that are able to provide competitive solutions and resilient solutions for credit for at scale because that is really where kind of the book of the profit pool is not only in Latin America, but across many other markets in the globe.

這也是我們對能夠提供具有競爭力的解決方案和彈性的大規模信貸解決方案的數位銀行模式如此興奮的原因之一，因為這實際上是利潤池所在，不僅在拉丁美洲，而且在全球許多其他市場。

Great, no, super helpful. Thank you, Largo, and congrats again.

非常好，不，非常有幫助。謝謝你，拉爾戈，再次恭喜你。

So thank you, everyone. We now have approached 60 minutes of the call. So we are now concluding today's call. On behalf of Nu Holdings, our Investor Relations team, I want to thank you very much for your time and participation on Nu earnings call today.

謝謝大家。現在我們的通話已經進行了將近 60 分鐘。我們現在結束今天的電話會議。我謹代表 Nu Holdings 和我們的投資者關係團隊，非常感謝您今天抽出時間參加 Nu 收益電話會議。

Over the coming days, we'll be following up with questions received tonight, but we are not able to answer. And please do not hesitate to reach out to our team if you have any further questions. Thank you, and have a good night.

在接下來的幾天裡，我們將跟進今晚收到的問題，但我們無法回答。如果您還有其他問題，請隨時聯絡我們的團隊。謝謝，祝您晚安。

The Nu Holdings conference call has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Nu Holdings 電話會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。