Nu Holdings Ltd (NU) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Nu Holdings conference call to discuss the results for the fourth quarter 2023. A slide presentation accompanies today's webcast, which is available in Nu's Investor Relations website, www.investors.nu in English and www.investidores.nu in Portuguese. This conference is being recorded, and the replay can also be accessed on the company's IR website. This call is also available in Portuguese. (Operator Instructions) (foreign language) (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，午安。歡迎參加Nu Holdings 電話會議，討論2023 年第四季度的業績。今天的網絡廣播附帶幻燈片演示，可在Nu 的投資者關係網站（英文版www.investors.nu 和葡萄牙文版www.investidores.nu ）上觀看。本次會議正在錄製中，您也可以在公司的 IR 網站上觀看重播。此電話也提供葡萄牙語服務。 （操作說明）（外語）（操作說明）

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer at Nu Holdings. Mr. Friedemann, you may proceed.

我現在想將電話轉給 Nu Holdings 投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。弗里德曼先生，您可以繼續了。

Thank you very much, operator, and thank you all for joining our earnings call today. If you have not seen our earnings release, a copy is posted in the Results Center section of our Investor Relations website. With me on today's call are David Velez, our Founder, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman; Youssef Lahrech, our President and Chief Operating Officer; Guilherme Lago, our Chief Financial Officer; and Jag Duggal, our Chief Product Officer.

非常感謝您，運營商，也感謝大家參加我們今天的財報電話會議。如果您還沒有看到我們的收益發布，我們的投資者關係網站的結果中心部分會發布一份副本。與我一起參加今天電話會議的有我們的創辦人、執行長兼董事長 David Velez； Youssef Lahrech，我們的總裁兼營運長； Guilherme Lago，我們的財務長；以及我們的首席產品長 Jag Duggal。

Throughout this conference call, we will be presenting non-IFRS financial information, including adjusted net income. These are important financial measures for Nu, but are not financial measures as defined by IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures from other companies. Reconciliations of our non-IFRS financial information to the IFRS financial information are available in our earnings press release. Unless noted otherwise, all growth rates are on a year-over-year FX neutral basis.

在整個電話會議中，我們將介紹非國際財務報告準則的財務信息，包括調整後的淨利潤。這些是 Nu 的重要財務指標，但不是 IFRS 定義的財務指標，可能無法與其他公司的類似指標進行比較。我們的收益新聞稿中提供了我們的非國際財務報告準則財務資訊與國際財務報告準則財務資訊的調整表。除非另有說明，所有成長率均以外匯中性為基礎計算。

I would also like to remind everyone that today's discussion might include forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance, and therefore, you should not put undue reliance on them. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties and could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in our earnings release.

我還想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述並不是對未來業績的保證，因此，您不應過度依賴它們。這些陳述面臨許多風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與我們的預期有重大差異。請參閱我們的收益報告中所揭露的前瞻性聲明。

Today, our Founder, Chairman and CEO, David Velez, will discuss the main highlights of our fourth quarter 2023 results and provide an overview of our company priorities for 2024. Subsequently, Guilherme Lago, our CFO; and Youssef Lahrech, our President and COO; we will take you through our financial and operating performance for the quarter, after which time we will be happy to take your questions.

今天，我們的創辦人、董事長兼執行長 David Velez 將討論我們 2023 年第四季業績的主要亮點，並概述我們公司 2024 年的優先事項。以及我們的總裁兼營運長 Youssef Lahrech；我們將向您介紹本季的財務和營運業績，之後我們將很樂意回答您的問題。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to David. David, please go ahead.

現在我想把電話轉給大衛。大衛，請繼續。

Thank you, Jorg. Good evening, everyone, and thank you again for being with us today. Q4 2023 marks our second year as a publicly listed company in our 10th year since our foundation. Our mission, dedicated to fighting complexity and empowering people continues to gain strong momentum, now serving nearly 100 million people in Brazil, Mexico and Colombia. Meanwhile, our business model anchored in 3 fundamental principles: fast customer expansion, expanding revenue per customer and efficient operating costs is delivering onto the substantial earnings power we envisioned.

謝謝你，約格。大家晚上好，再次感謝你們今天和我們在一起。 2023 年第四季是我們作為上市公司成立的第十個年頭。我們致力於應對複雜性並賦予人們權力的使命繼續獲得強勁動力，目前為巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的近 1 億人提供服務。同時，我們的業務模式以三個基本原則為基礎：快速客戶擴張、增加每個客戶的收入以及高效的營運成本，正在實現我們所設想的巨大獲利能力。

Our customer base growth has consistently outpaced our expectations, reaching approximately 94 million customers at the end of the quarter compared to 54 million just 3 years ago. We are on our way to cross 100 million customers in 2024, and we plan to continue marching along thereafter towards the development of the largest consumer platform in Latin America. The base of customer net adds in Brazil remains impressive, averaging 1.3 million customers per month, resulting in a total of 87.8 million customers by the end of 2023.

我們的客戶群成長一直超出我們的預期，截至本季末，客戶數量達到約 9,400 萬，而三年前為 5,400 萬。我們即將在 2024 年突破 1 億客戶，並計畫此後繼續朝發展拉丁美洲最大的消費平台邁進。巴西的客戶淨增量仍然令人印象深刻，平均每月有 130 萬客戶，到 2023 年底客戶總數將達到 8,780 萬人。

At the same time, our growth in Mexico has accelerated with a net add of almost 1 million new customers in the quarter, reaching a total of 5.2 million customers by the end of 2023. This underscores the success of our Q3 decision to increase deposit yield in Mexico, which has accelerated our company-wide flywheel in the country and consolidated Nu as the indisputable leader in the digital banking category in Mexico.

同時，我們在墨西哥的成長加速，本季淨增加近 100 萬新客戶，到 2023 年底客戶總數達到 520 萬。這凸顯了我們第三季提高存款收益率的決定的成功墨西哥，這加速了我們公司在該國的飛輪發展，並鞏固了Nu 在墨西哥數位銀行領域無可爭議的領導者地位。

Finally, let me share some financial highlights with you. In the fourth quarter, our revenue surged to $2.4 billion, accelerating sequentially to a 57% year-over-year increase. or gross profit surpassed $1.1 billion, growing 87% year-over-year, while our gross margin expanded once again, reaching 47.5% in the quarter. The sequential gross margin expansion boosted our net income, which reached $361 million, while adjusted net income stood at $396 million, reflecting a 229% year-over-year increase. This demonstrates the strength of our business model, capable of combining strong top line growth with very solid levels of profitability.

最後，讓我與大家分享一些財務亮點。第四季度，我們的營收飆升至 24 億美元，年增 57%。毛利超過 11 億美元，年增 87%，而毛利率再次擴大，本季達到 47.5%。毛利率連續成長帶動淨利達 3.61 億美元，調整後淨利為 3.96 億美元，較去年同期成長 229%。這證明了我們業務模式的實力，能夠將強勁的營收成長與非常穩固的獲利水準結合。

This slide provides a high-level overview of our financial performance trends over the past 2 years. It underscores our consistent success in expanding the customer base while accelerating revenues and profitability. The robust growth of our customer base, driven by the growing cross-selling and upselling opportunities facilitated by our highly engaged platform resulted in a more than threefold increase in quarterly revenues in just 2 years, on an FX-neutral basis. This translated into an 82% annual compounded growth rate for this period. The third chart on this slide effectively illustrates our robust pricing and underwriting capabilities, where quarterly gross profit calculated as total revenues minus funding costs, transactional expenses and credit loss allowances increased by more than fourfold in the same period.

這張投影片高度概述了我們過去兩年的財務表現趨勢。它強調了我們在擴大客戶群、同時提高收入和獲利能力方面取得的持續成功。在我們高度參與的平台促進的交叉銷售和追加銷售機會不斷增長的推動下，我們的客戶群強勁增長，導致季度收入在短短兩年內（在外匯中性的基礎上）增長了三倍多。這意味著這段時期的年複合成長率為 82%。本投影片上的第三張圖表有效地說明了我們強大的定價和承保能力，其中季度毛利按總收入減去融資成本、交易費用和信用損失準備計算，同期增長了四倍多。

Lastly, we believe the combined impact of the aforementioned factors, coupled with the strong operating leverage of our platform and the maturation of our early products in Brazil has resulted in a significant acceleration in net income growth. This upward trend is evident in the chart on the right, particularly over the past 4 quarters. We anticipate this compounding effect continuing in the years ahead, driven by the combination of sustained growth and heightened profitability within our platform.

最後，我們相信上述因素的綜合影響，加上我們平台強大的營運槓桿以及我們在巴西的早期產品的成熟，導致淨利潤成長顯著加速。這種上升趨勢在右圖中很明顯，尤其是在過去的 4 個季度。我們預計，在我們平台內持續成長和獲利能力提高的共同推動下，這種複合效應將在未來幾年持續存在。

Now I'd like to highlight how our flywheel isn't just driving customer acquisition and data growth but also sustaining strong momentum in our key financial metrics. As our 3 geographic regions continue to expand, leveraging the inerrant operating advantage of our model, where holding company has effectively transformed its potential into profits. In the fourth quarter, Nu Holdings achieved an adjusted net income of $396 million, reflecting an adjusted annualized return on equity of 26%, surpassing the performance of most peers in the region and despite maintaining a considerable excess capital of $2.4 billion in the holding company. If one were to look at our operations in Brazil alone, our return on equity continued to increase and remains above 40%.

現在我想強調一下，我們的飛輪不僅推動了客戶獲取和數據成長，而且還保持了我們關鍵財務指標的強勁勢頭。隨著我們的三個地理區域的不斷擴張，利用我們模式的無可比擬的營運優勢，控股公司已有效地將其潛力轉化為利潤。第四季度，Nu Holdings 實現調整後淨利潤 3.96 億美元，調整後年化股本回報率為 26%，超過該地區大多數同行的表現，儘管控股公司仍保持著 24 億美元的巨額超額資本。如果只看我們在巴西的業務，我們的股本回報率持續成長，並保持在 40% 以上。

I'd like to briefly recap how we fared against our priorities in 2023. At the beginning of last year, we communicated our top 3 priorities for the year. The first was to scale our lending business in Brazil, both unsecured and secured. The second was to grow our share of wallet within the upmarket segment in Brazil. And the third was to ramp up local currency deposits in Mexico and Colombia. As you can see in the first part of this slide, we doubled our origination of personal loans over the past year from almost $1 billion in the fourth quarter of 2022 to $2 billion in the fourth quarter of 2023.

我想簡要回顧一下我們在 2023 年優先事項方面的表現。去年初，我們傳達了今年的 3 大優先事項。第一個是擴大我們在巴西的無擔保和擔保貸款業務。第二個是增加我們在巴西高端市場的市佔率。第三是增加墨西哥和哥倫比亞的本幣存款。正如您在這張投影片的第一部分中看到的那樣，過去一年我們的個人貸款發放量增加了一倍，從2022 年第四季的近10 億美元增加到2023 年第四季的20億美元。

Currently, Nubank has an estimated market share of new originations in unsecured personal loans of approximately 22%, increasing from 12% from the end of last year. In addition, we launched our initial SIAPE, a public payroll loan product in April 2023, followed by FGTS in August 2023, and then INSS payroll in October 2023. As of Q4 '23, 10% of our personal loan origination was already derived from secured lending lines. Much more will come in 2024 and but we're overall very pleased with our development in scaling personal loans in Brazil over the past 4 quarters.

目前，Nubank 在無擔保個人貸款新發放市場中的份額估計約為 22%，高於去年年底的 12%。此外，我們於2023 年4 月推出了最初的SIAPE，這是一種公共工資貸款產品，隨後於2023 年8 月推出了FGTS，然後於2023 年10 月推出了INSS 薪資。截至23 年第4 季度，我們的個人貸款來源的10% 已來自有擔保的貸款額度。 2024 年還會有更多貸款，但總的來說，我們對過去 4 個季度在巴西擴大個人貸款方面的進展感到非常滿意。

Let's delve into our second priority, gaining share of wallet within the upmarket segment in Brazil. It is an effort that will take time and pay off over the long haul. We believe we're well positioned to compete and win in this segment. 2023 served as the foundation for this long-term journey. We have observed a substantial progression in our segmentation effort with an accelerated growth in market share of principality. Additionally, we have rolled out numerous features and products across all dimensions of our platform tailored to the segment, such as in banking, credit and investments offer.

讓我們深入研究我們的第二個優先事項，即在巴西的高端市場中獲得錢包份額。這是一項需要時間並從長遠來看會得到回報的努力。我們相信我們處於有利地位，可以在這一領域競爭並獲勝。 2023 年是這趟長期旅程的基礎。我們觀察到我們的細分工作取得了實質進展，公國市佔率加速成長。此外，我們還在平台的各個方面推出了針對該細分市場量身定制的眾多功能和產品，例如銀行、信貸和投資服務。

Notably, our UV credit card purchase volume expanding from $0.5 billion in Q4 '22 to $1.1 billion in Q4 '23, a 104% year-on-year growth, while UV customers doubled in the period and our brand perception improved materially in this segment. Finally, we have achieved the best industry Net Promoter Score among Brazilian high-income customers.

值得注意的是，我們的UV 信用卡購買額從22 年第4 季的5 億美元擴大到23 年第4 季的11 億美元，年成長104%，而UV 客戶在此期間翻了一番，我們在該領域的品牌認知度大幅提高。最後，我們在巴西高收入客戶中獲得了最佳的行業淨推薦值。

Finally, addressing our third priority for the past year, we successfully introduced our deposit account solution in Mexico, Cuenta Nu, in May. Following news announcement of increased remuneration of these deposits in November, we experienced a remarkable outcome. Within just 2 months, we quadrupled the level of deposits in the country to an impressive total of $1 billion at the end of 2023, achieving this milestone 3x faster than in Brazil.

最後，為了解決去年的第三個優先事項，我們於 5 月在墨西哥 Cuenta Nu 成功推出了存款帳戶解決方案。繼 11 月宣布增加這些存款報酬的消息之後，我們取得了顯著的成果。在短短 2 個月內，我們將該國的存款水準翻了兩番，到 2023 年底達到令人印象深刻的 10 億美元，實現這一里程碑的速度比巴西快 3 倍。

With a segment of higher-income Mexicans that are attracted by the more aggressive value proposition. We are extremely pleased with the success of this strategy, even though it is a significant investment as we believe it unlocks the potential of our member-get-member referral program enriches our credit underwriting models with more data and enables our company to become self-sufficient in local currency retail deposits. This self-sufficiency is crucial for scaling a consumer finance business. We were also granted a financial license in Colombia at the end of December, allowing us to launch Cuenta in Colombia last month. Similarly to our experience in Mexico, we expect our flywheels in Colombia to be propelled by the Cuenta launch.

一部分高收入墨西哥人被更激進的價值主張所吸引。我們對這項策略的成功感到非常高興，儘管這是一項重大投資，因為我們相信它釋放了我們會員獲取會員推薦計劃的潛力，透過更多數據豐富了我們的信用承保模式，並使我們的公司能夠自我發展。充足的本幣零售存款。這種自給自足對於擴大消費金融業務至關重要。我們還在 12 月底在哥倫比亞獲得了金融許可證，使我們能夠上個月在哥倫比亞推出 Cuenta。與我們在墨西哥的經驗類似，我們預計哥倫比亞的飛輪將受到 Cuenta 發射的推動。

Overall, we believe 2023 was the year we were able to definitely prove to the market with strong numbers that the digital banking model we have been building for over a decade is the future of banking. This model is not only able to acquire and serve tens of millions of customers at scale and extremely low cost, but also generates the high satisfaction for consumers while producing one of the highest return on equity for shareholders. We achieved significant progress by getting banking licenses into new geographies and by launching successful deposit franchises in Mexico. We also grew within new segments such as high income. Those developments point in the direction that this is a model that goes beyond Brazil and goes beyond mass market consumers. We realize there is still lots to prove ahead, but we continue to be incredibly excited about how early we are in the development of this model.

總的來說，我們相信 2023 年我們能夠用強有力的數據向市場證明，我們十多年來一直在建立的數位銀行模式是銀行業的未來。這種模式不僅能夠以極低的成本規模獲取和服務數千萬客戶，而且在為股東帶來最高股本回報率的同時，也能為消費者帶來極高的滿意度。我們透過在新地區獲得銀行牌照以及在墨西哥推出成功的存款特許經營業務，取得了重大進展。我們也在高收入等新領域取得了成長。這些發展表明，這是一種超越巴西、超越大眾市場消費者的模式。我們意識到還有很多事情需要證明，但我們仍然對這個模型的開發還處於早期階段感到非常興奮。

Now I'd like to pass the floor to our CFO, Guilherme Lago, who will guide you through our financial numbers. Over to you, Lago.

現在我想請我們的財務長 Guilherme Lago 發言，他將指導您了解我們的財務數據。交給你了，拉戈。

Thank you, David, and good evening, everyone. Before starting the discussion around our year-end results and to better frame our operating and financial key performance indicators I would like to recap the 3 key elements of our simple and powerful value-generating strategy. First, we continue to expand our customer base in the 3 markets where we operate, quickly transforming new customers into active ones. Second, we are focused on increasing the average revenue per active customer, or ARPAC, through effective cross-selling and upselling initiatives. And third, delivering growth while maintaining one of the lowest cost operating platforms in the industry. Let's delve deeper into our fourth quarter results to understand the evolution of each one of these pillars.

謝謝大衛，大家晚上好。在開始討論我們的年終業績以及更好地制定我們的營運和財務關鍵績效指標之前，我想回顧一下我們簡單而強大的價值創造策略的 3 個關鍵要素。首先，我們繼續擴大我們營運所在的 3 個市場的客戶群，並迅速將新客戶轉化為活躍客戶。其次，我們致力於透過有效的交叉銷售和追加銷售計劃來增加每個活躍客戶（ARPAC）的平均收入。第三，在實現成長的同時保持產業成本最低的營運平台之一。讓我們更深入地研究第四季度的業績，以了解每個支柱的演變。

Let's start with customer acquisition. During the fourth quarter, we once again experienced a noteworthy expansion of 26% of our customer base year-on-year as we welcome nearly 5 million new customers, bringing our total to 93.9 million customers at the year-end. Brazil continues to deliver a high monthly net addition of almost 1.3 million customers with a significant portion acquired through cost-effective organic channels.

讓我們從客戶獲取開始。第四季度，我們的客戶群再次較去年同期大幅成長 26%，迎來近 500 萬新客戶，年底客戶總數達到 9,390 萬人。巴西每月淨增客戶數量繼續保持在近 130 萬的高水平，其中很大一部分是透過具有成本效益的有機管道獲得的。

In Mexico, our customer count increased by almost 1 million, crossing the 5.2 million mark. And in Colombia, we are now serving more than 800,000 customers. As mentioned earlier by Dave, back in December, we received the regulatory approvals to operate in Colombia as a financing company, allowing us to launch Cuenta in the country. With this milestone, we expect to onboard even more customers in Colombia, which will lead us to further growth.

在墨西哥，我們的客戶數量增加了近 100 萬，突破了 520 萬大關。在哥倫比亞，我們現在為超過 80 萬名客戶提供服務。正如 Dave 之前提到的，早在去年 12 月，我們就獲得了監管部門的批准，可以在哥倫比亞作為一家融資公司開展業務，這使我們能夠在該國推出 Cuenta。憑藉這一里程碑，我們期望在哥倫比亞吸引更多客戶，這將引領我們進一步發展。

Now more important than the process of onboarding customers is the ability to effectively activate and retain them. our active customer base increased by 27% year-over-year with the monthly activity rate, posting another sequential quarterly increase now reaching 83.1%, we believe that this outcome highlights our ability to effectively engage our customers on our platform.

現在，比吸引客戶的過程更重要的是有效啟動和保留客戶的能力。我們的活躍客戶群每月活躍率年增 27%，環比季度成長現已達到 83.1%，我們相信這一結果凸顯了我們在平台上有效吸引客戶的能力。

Now turning our attention to revenue expansion. The first chart highlights the Nu has established primary banking relationships with around 61% of our active customer base, up nearly 2 percentage points in comparison to last quarter. As more customers choose Nu as their primary bank, the more products they tend to utilize, generating higher ARPAC. These 2 effects can be seen in the following charts. The second chart illustrates our successful cross-selling strategy, introducing new products to our customers and establishing ourselves as their primary banking partner. Our active customers are consuming on average, 4 products on our platforms versus an average of 3.8 products a year ago.

現在我們將注意力轉向收入擴張。第一張圖表突出顯示 Nu 已與大約 61% 的活躍客戶群建立了主要銀行關係，與上季度相比增加了近 2 個百分點。隨著越來越多的客戶選擇 Nu 作為他們的主要銀行，他們傾向於使用的產品就越多，從而產生更高的 ARPAC。這兩種效果可以在下面的圖表中看到。第二張圖展示了我們成功的交叉銷售策略，向客戶推出新產品並將我們自己打造為他們的主要銀行合作夥伴。我們的活躍客戶在我們的平台上平均消費 4 種產品，而一年前平均消費 3.8 種產品。

The third chart shows how our expanding customer engagement, as demonstrated in the first chart combined with our growing product cross-sell capabilities, as shown in the second chart, is compounding to produce increasingly positive results. Our monthly ARPAC increased to $10.6, while our more mature cohorts are already generating a monthly ARPAC of $27. The increase in ARPAC has resulted in another quarter of solid revenue growth, as presented in the next slide.

第三張圖表顯示了我們不斷擴大的客戶參與度（如第一張圖表所示）與我們不斷增長的產品交叉銷售能力（如第二張圖表所示）相結合，如何產生日益積極的結果。我們的每月 ARPAC 增加到 10.6 美元，而我們更成熟的團隊的每月 ARPAC 已經達到 27 美元。 ARPAC 的成長帶來了另一個季度的穩健收入成長，如下一張投影片所示。

Our monthly ARPAC has continued to grow steadily, expanding by 23% year-over-year. We remain confident that we still have untapped potential for further ARPAC growth moving us closer to realizing what we believe is our full ARPAC potential. As shown in the second chart, our revenues reached a new record high of $2.4 billion, up 57% year-over-year as the increase in active clients combined with higher ARPAC continue to drive sustained top line growth.

我們的每月 ARPAC 持續穩定成長，年增 23%。我們仍然相信，我們仍有尚未開發的 ARPAC 進一步成長潛力，使我們更接近實現我們認為的 ARPAC 全部潛力。如第二張圖所示，我們的營收達到 24 億美元的新紀錄，年增 57%，因為活躍客戶的增加以及 ARPAC 的增加繼續推動營收持續成長。

Now turning our attention to our cards business. Purchase volumes increased 29% to $32.6 billion in the fourth quarter. For the full year, purchase volumes reached more than $111 billion, up 37% over 2022. This strong performance underscores the power of our product cross-sell, upsell and customer engagement capabilities. The chart on the right depicts the correlation between purchase volumes and the aging of customer cohorts. Most of our purchase volumes originated from our more established customer cohorts characterized by higher monthly spending compared to recent cohorts. While there is an initial disparity between newer and older cohorts, both show a clear upward trend in consumption over time.

現在將我們的注意力轉向我們的卡片業務。第四季採購量成長 29%，達到 326 億美元。全年採購額超過 1,110 億美元，比 2022 年成長 37%。這一強勁表現凸顯了我們產品交叉銷售、追加銷售和客戶參與能力的強大力量。右圖描繪了購買量與顧客群年齡之間的相關性。我們的大部分購買量來自我們更成熟的客戶群體，其特徵是與最近的群體相比，每月支出更高。雖然新舊群體之間存在最初的差異，但隨著時間的推移，兩者的消費都呈現出明顯的上升趨勢。

Effectively, when we look into a constant initial risk basis, there is a clear uptrend in the spending patterns of our card's customers. We believe the compounding effect of integrating millions of new customers each quarter, coupled with the gradual shift to higher spending patterns will continue to fuel the future growth of purchase volumes. We believe we currently hold a 13.8% share of the credit card market in Brazil in terms of purchase volumes, up 150 basis points from a year ago as our market presence strengthens our confidence in capturing additional share in the future growth. This confidence is rooted in the steady pace of customer acquisition and their strengthening relationships with us.

實際上，當我們研究恆定的初始風險基礎時，我們的卡片客戶的支出模式有明顯的上升趨勢。我們相信，每季整合數百萬新客戶的複合效應，加上逐漸轉向更高的支出模式，將繼續推動未來購買量的成長。我們相信，就購買量而言，我們目前在巴西信用卡市場佔有 13.8% 的份額，比一年前增長了 150 個基點，因為我們的市場地位增強了我們在未來增長中獲得更多份額的信心。這種信心植根於穩定的客戶獲取速度以及他們與我們不斷加強的關係。

Our consumer finance portfolio comprising credit cards and personal loans posted another increase this quarter, up 49% year-over-year to $18.2 billion. This growth was boosted by expansions in both product categories. The credit card portfolio expanded by 44% year-over-year to $14.5 billion. We attribute this growth to the onboarding of new customers to our ecosystem and our low and grow focused approach. Our personal loan portfolio is a highlight this quarter, increasing 76% year-over-year and reaching $3.7 billion. Our personal loan cohorts have maintained expected credit behaviors following the same trends observed in the prior quarter, allowing us to increase originations for yet another quarter.

我們的消費金融投資組合（包括信用卡和個人貸款）本季再次成長，年增 49% 至 182 億美元。這一增長得益於兩個產品類別的擴張。信用卡投資組合年增 44%，達到 145 億美元。我們將這種成長歸因於新客戶加入我們的生態系統以及我們的低成長和專注於成長的方法。我們的個人貸款組合是本季的一大亮點，年增 76%，達到 37 億美元。我們的個人貸款群體按照與上一季觀察到的相同趨勢保持了預期的信貸行為，這使我們能夠在另一個季度增加貸款發放量。

We believe there are significant opportunities to continue to expand our loan book, while we seek attractive returns and robust credit resilience. As we have previously mentioned, this may result in intentionally higher delinquency rates but our aim is to ensure that these can be more than offset by additional revenues resulting in higher risk-adjusted net interest margins.

我們相信，在我們尋求有吸引力的回報和強大的信用彈性的同時，還有繼續擴大貸款規模的重大機會。正如我們之前提到的，這可能會導致故意提高拖欠率，但我們的目標是確保這些可以被額外收入所抵消，從而導致更高的風險調整淨利差。

Now let's take a deeper look at the breakdown of interest-earning loans within our credit card portfolio. We continue to pursue our strategy of increasing the share of credit card loans that earn interest with special emphasis on PIX and boleto financing. This has driven sustained growth of our interest-earning installment balance, which now accounts for 23% of our total credit card loan portfolio. Our goal is to capitalize on the increasing adoption of PIX in Brazil, where we remain the leading provider of PIX services in the country. As of December 2023, over 35% of our active credit card customers were active users of PIX financing feature.

現在讓我們更深入地了解信用卡組合中生息貸款的細分情況。我們繼續奉行增加可賺取利息的信用卡貸款份額的策略，特別注重 PIX 和 Boleto 融資。這推動了我們生息分期付款餘額的持續成長，目前占我們信用卡貸款組合總額的23%。我們的目標是利用 PIX 在巴西的日益普及，我們仍然是全國領先的 PIX 服務提供者。截至 2023 年 12 月，超過 35% 的活躍信用卡客戶是 PIX 融資功能的活躍用戶。

We believe that this type of financing offers an attractive risk-adjusted rate of return, allowing us to expand the monetization of our credit card business beyond fee generations, while also unlocking substantial value as we fulfill an important customer need. However, we have intentionally not increased our share of revolving receivables, which even compress sequentially to 6% of our total receivables this quarter. In turn, our total IEP balance, including revolving, is at 29% of the portfolio this quarter compared to 23% of the market.

我們相信，這種類型的融資提供了有吸引力的風險調整回報率，使我們能夠將信用卡業務的貨幣化擴展到費用產生之外，同時在滿足重要的客戶需求時釋放巨大的價值。然而，我們有意沒有增加循環應收帳款的份額，本季循環應收帳款甚至連續壓縮至我們應收帳款總額的 6%。反過來，本季我們的 IEP 總餘額（包括循環）佔投資組合的 29%，而市場這一比例為 23%。

Our personal loan portfolio composed of both unsecured and secured loans remains resilient and aligned with our expectations for asset quality. Originations doubled year-over-year, reaching BRL 10 billion in the quarter. Secured personal loans are growing according to plan with originations in the quarter, reaching 10% of the total versus 3% in the previous quarter. Over the past year, we have made substantial progress in broadening our lending product portfolio, introducing new secured and unsecured loans to cater to a wider range of customer needs.

我們由無擔保和擔保貸款組成的個人貸款組合保持彈性，並符合我們對資產品質的期望。發起金額較去年同期翻了一番，本季達到 100 億雷亞爾。本季發放的有擔保個人貸款按計劃增長，佔貸款總額的 10%，而上一季為 3%。過去一年，我們在擴大貸款產品組合、推出新的擔保和無擔保貸款以滿足更廣泛的客戶需求方面取得了實質進展。

On the secure front, we now offer payroll loans for federal public servants and retirees and FGTS and investment-backed loans for the wider Brazilian population. While these new products may not have yet significantly impacted origination volumes or the credit portfolio, we believe they laid the groundwork for continued growth and contribute to the development of an even more resilient credit book in the years to come.

在安全方面，我們現在為聯邦公務員和退休人員提供薪資貸款，並為更廣泛的巴西人口提供 FGTS 和投資支持貸款。雖然這些新產品可能尚未對發放量或信貸組合產生重大影響，但我們相信它們為持續成長奠定了基礎，並有助於在未來幾年發展更具彈性的信貸帳簿。

Note that our credit yield this quarter was affected by the loan mix. As secured personal loans by definition, have lower interest rates, an increase in originations of these loans will directly impact the average interest rates. The unsecured personal loan yields, however, increased marginally quarter-over-quarter as we continue to expand eligibility to riskier bands of customers.

請注意，我們本季的信貸收益率受到貸款組合的影響。由於根據定義，有擔保個人貸款的利率較低，因此這些貸款來源的增加將直接影響平均利率。然而，隨著我們繼續擴大風險較高客戶群的資格，無擔保個人貸款收益率環比略有上升。

Moving on to the progress achieved on the funding front. We continue to see a solid trend in the expansion of our deposit base, which increased 38% year-over-year, reaching $23.7 billion at the end of the year. This represents a significant step towards our goal of developing one of the strongest local currency retail deposit franchise in the region, bolstering our ability to support our consumer finance operations across the 3 geographies where we operate.

接下來談談資金方面的進展。我們繼續看到存款基礎擴張的穩健趨勢，年增 38%，年底達到 237 億美元。這代表著我們朝著發展該地區最強大的本幣零售存款特許經營權之一的目標邁出了重要一步，增強了我們支持我們經營的 3 個地區的消費金融業務的能力。

In Mexico, we are experiencing significant growth in NuConta. By the end of the fourth quarter, we had accrued over $1 billion in deposits. Given our growing presence in Mexico, we have decided that from now on, we will show our cost of deposits as a percentage determined by the ratio between the interest income paid to customers and the interbank rates of the countries, namely TIIE for Mexico and CDI for Brazil. Even taking into account this calculation, our cost of deposits for this quarter stood at 80% of the interbank rate in line with our expectations. This consistently low cost of deposits highlights our progress in harnessing the value of our liability franchise.

在墨西哥，我們的 NuConta 正在經歷顯著成長。截至第四季末，我們的存款已超過 10 億美元。鑑於我們在墨西哥的業務不斷增長，我們決定從現在開始，我們將按照支付給客戶的利息收入與各國銀行同業拆息之間的比率確定的百分比來顯示我們的存款成本，即墨西哥的 TIIE 和 CDI對於巴西。即使考慮到這項計算，我們本季的存款成本仍為銀行間利率的 80%，符合我們的預期。這種持續的低存款成本突顯了我們在利用負債專營權價值方面所取得的進展。

Our loan-to-deposit ratio or LDR stood at 34% versus 35% in the previous quarter with deposit growth showing sequential acceleration. We are very confident that there is still a lot of room for additional balance sheet optimization ahead of us.

我們的貸存比 (LDR) 為 34%，而上一季為 35%，存款成長呈現較上季加速。我們非常有信心，我們的資產負債表還有很大的優化空間。

Our net interest income, or NII, increased 85% year-on-year, reaching a new record high of $1.3 billion in the quarter. We believe that the continued growth of our credit card and personal loans portfolio was the key driver of this expansion. We delivered a net interest margin or NIM of 18.3% and representing a drop of 0.5 percentage points compared to last quarter, but an increase of 5 percentage points in comparison to 1 year ago. This decrease was mainly attributed to an impact of our collection strategies associated with but not limited to Desenrola, which affected 2 different lines of our P&L in opposite directions with virtually neutral effect on our gross margin and net income, but with a negative impact on our NIM.

我們的淨利息收入 (NII) 年增 85%，本季創下 13 億美元的歷史新高。我們相信，信用卡和個人貸款組合的持續成長是這項擴張的關鍵驅動力。我們的淨利差或淨利差為 18.3%，較上季下降 0.5 個百分點，但較一年前上升 5 個百分點。這一下降主要歸因於我們與但不限於Desenrola 相關的收款策略的影響，該策略以相反的方向影響了我們損益表的兩條不同線，對我們的毛利率和淨利潤幾乎呈中性影響，但對我們的毛利率和淨利潤產生了負面影響尼姆。

Customer discounts on the renegotiated portfolios are booked into the other interest expenses line, so are captured in our NIM. This line was negatively impacted by $60 million to $70 million, representing a 90 basis points impact on our NIM. Without this, our NIM would have achieved 19.2%, an increase of 40 basis points quarter-over-quarter. The P&L line that was positively impacted in a similar amount was recoveries, which is booked deducting the credit loss allowance so captured in the risk-adjusted net interest margins, which, as Youssef will explain next continue to evolve favorably.

重新協商的投資組合的客戶折扣被記入其他利息支出項目，因此也記錄在我們的淨利差中。這條線受到了 6000 萬至 7000 萬美元的負面影響，對我們的淨息差產生了 90 個基點的影響。如果沒有這一點，我們的淨利差將達到 19.2%，季增 40 個基點。受到類似金額正面影響的損益項目是收回金額，扣除在風險調整後淨息差中捕獲的信用損失準備金後入賬，正如尤瑟夫接下來將解釋的那樣，這一數額將繼續有利地發展。

Looking ahead, irrespective of the direction of interest rates, the main lever for future NIMs should be the progression of the company's loan-to-deposit ratio, as our excess deposits are basically invested into public bonds, the remuneration of which is much lower than that of our credit products.

展望未來，無論利率走向如何，未來淨利差的主要槓桿應該是公司貸存比的進步，因為我們的超額存款基本上都投資於公債，而公債的報酬遠低於公司的存貸比。我們的信貸產品。

Moving to the third pillar of our strategy, maintaining a low cost to serve. We strongly believe that our main competitive advantage is maintaining a low cost to serve, which we aim to keep at or below the $1 level for the foreseeable future. In the fourth quarter of 2023, we successfully realized this goal with a cost to serve per active customer standing at $0.90. This figure currently remains unchanged on an FX-neutral basis when compared to a year ago, while our ARPAC increased by 23%, demonstrating the strong operating leverage of our business model.

轉向我們策略的第三個支柱，保持低成本服務。我們堅信，我們的主要競爭優勢是保持較低的服務成本，我們的目標是在可預見的未來將其保持在或低於 1 美元的水平。 2023 年第四季度，我們成功實現了這一目標，每個活躍客戶的服務成本為 0.90 美元。目前，在匯率中性的基礎上，這一數字與一年前相比保持不變，而我們的 ARPAC 增長了 23%，這證明了我們業務模式的強大營運槓桿。

Our gross profit reached a new quarterly record high, surpassing $1.1 billion, reflecting an 87% year-over-year increase. Moreover, our gross profit margin expanded nearly 5 percentage points to 47.5%, highlighting the margin expansion that began in the third quarter of 2022. Our gross profit margin continues to be positively impacted by ongoing improvements observed on our net interest margin and cost of risk. But the movement this quarter is also amplified by the positive seasonality relative to the purchase volumes of cards, which increased interchange revenues.

我們的毛利創下季度新高，超過 11 億美元，年增 87%。此外，我們的毛利率成長了近 5 個百分點，達到 47.5%，突顯了自 2022 年第三季開始的利潤率擴張。我們的毛利率繼續受到淨利差和風險成本持續改善的正面影響。但本季的變動也因卡片購買量的積極季節性而放大，從而增加了交換收入。

Looking ahead, we expect annualized gross margins in 2024 to normalize levels of 2023 as our investments in Mexico and Colombia are offset by the margin expansions in Brazil. After that, we expect the expansion trend to resume and gross margin to gradually grow towards 50%.

展望未來，我們預計 2024 年的年化毛利率將恢復到 2023 年的正常水平，因為我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的投資被巴西的利潤擴張所抵消。此後，我們預期擴張趨勢將恢復，毛利率將逐步成長至50%。

We are fully committed to maintaining operating leverage as a key element of our strategy. During the fourth quarter, our efficiency ratio stood at 36%, an increase in comparison to last quarter, due mostly to 2 factors. First, we invested more on branding efforts as we advance our strategy into the High Income segment in Brazil and as we progress in Mexico. Those efforts are linked to the company's priorities for 2023, and we are pleased with the solid developments achieved. Important to mention that marketing expenditures were below historical average during the first half of 2023. So in part, the rise in expenses this quarter were already expected and previously communicated.

我們完全致力於維持營運槓桿，並將其作為我們策略的關鍵要素。第四季度，我們的效率率為 36%，較上季度有所提高，主要歸因於兩個因素。首先，隨著我們將策略推進到巴西高收入市場以及在墨西哥取得進展，我們在品牌建設上投入了更多資金。這些努力與公司 2023 年的優先事項有關，我們對所取得的紮實進展感到高興。值得一提的是，2023 年上半年的行銷支出低於歷史平均水準。因此，在一定程度上，本季支出的成長已經在預期之中，並且之前已傳達過。

Second, our cloud expenses rose driven by higher data usage from increased transactions and customers' activity, especially during the holiday season. We believe this course will be reversed in the subsequent quarters. Despite the higher efficiency ratio in the quarter, the efficiency ratio for the full year of 2023 remains strong, achieving 36% in an improvement of 19 percentage points when compared to the previous years. We believe that our level of efficiency positions Nu as one of the most efficient companies in Latin America. We are also confident that we can achieve more improvements in operating leverage as we continue to scale the business by expanding our customer base, increasing product upselling and cross-selling and introducing new products and features.

其次，由於交易和客戶活動增加導致數據使用量增加，特別是在假期期間，我們的雲端費用增加。我們相信這一趨勢將在接下來的幾季發生逆轉。儘管本季效率較高，但 2023 年全年效率依然強勁，達 36%，比往年提高 19 個百分點。我們相信，我們的效率水平使 Nu 成為拉丁美洲最高效的公司之一。我們也有信心，隨著我們透過擴大客戶群、增加產品追加銷售和交叉銷售以及推出新產品和功能來繼續擴大業務規模，我們可以在營運槓桿方面實現更多改進。

Finally, we delivered another quarter of profitability, with a net income for the fourth quarter of $361 million, increasing almost 5x on an FX-neutral basis compared to the previous year. There's a strong and positive results serve as evidence of the effectiveness of our strategy and business model. Adjusted net income in turn reached $396 million in the quarter. While we are satisfied with the results we have achieved to date, let me reinforce that we manage our business with a strong emphasis on long-term value creation. Therefore, our strategy may involve making additional short-term investments to further uncover long-term value creation opportunities.

最後，我們又實現了一個季度的盈利，第四季度的淨利潤為 3.61 億美元，在匯率中性的基礎上與上一年相比增長了近 5 倍。強而有力且積極的結果證明了我們的策略和商業模式的有效性。該季度調整後淨利達 3.96 億美元。雖然我們對迄今為止的成果感到滿意，但請容許我強調，我們在管理業務時非常重視長期價值創造。因此，我們的策略可能涉及進行額外的短期投資，以進一步發現長期價值創造機會。

This fourth quarter and 2023 as a whole serve as a clear evidence of our sustainable cost advantages. First, we successfully added around 5 million customers this quarter, while keeping what we believe to be one of the lowest cost to acquire among consumer fintechs and banks on a global scale. Second, we maintain our cost to serve consistently low, below the $1 threshold which we estimate to be approximately 85% lower than that of incumbents, making Nu one of the most efficient financial services companies in Latin America.

第四季和整個 2023 年是我們可持續成本優勢的明確證據。首先，本季我們成功增加了約 500 萬客戶，同時維持了我們認為的全球消費金融科技和銀行中獲取成本最低的客戶之一。其次，我們的服務成本始終保持在較低水平，低於 1 美元的門檻，我們估計成本比現有企業低約 85%，使 Nu 成為拉丁美洲最高效的金融服務公司之一。

Third, regarding cost of risk, we have effectively managed credit risk outperforming competitors on an apples-to-apples basis in terms of delinquency rates even in the face of a more challenging backdrop. And lastly, on cost of funding, we maintained it at 80% of the blended interbank rates of Brazil and Mexico, while significantly increasing deposit volume, thus closing the negative gap against incumbent banks and widening the positive gap over consumer fintechs.

第三，就風險成本而言，即使面對更具挑戰性的背景，我們在拖欠率方面的信用風險管理也優於競爭對手。最後，在融資成本方面，我們將其維持在巴西和墨西哥混合銀行間利率的80%，同時大幅增加存款量，從而縮小了與現有銀行的負差距，並擴大了與消費金融科技公司的正差距。

We are very pleased with the results achieved this quarter and for the full year of 2023. We remain confident in our capacity to innovate and scale top-notch products, expand internationally and continue to operate at low cost.

我們對本季和 2023 年全年的成果感到非常滿意。我們對創新和擴展一流產品、國際擴張以及繼續以低成本營運的能力充滿信心。

Now I'd like to hand the call over to Youssef, our President and Chief Operating Officer, who will walk you through some key highlights of our asset quality.

現在我想將電話轉交給我們的總裁兼營運長尤瑟夫，他將向您介紹我們資產品質的一些關鍵亮點。

Thank you, Lago. Good evening, everyone. I will now take you through some of the highlights of asset quality and credit portfolio health for the fourth quarter of 2023.

謝謝你，拉戈。各位晚上好。現在我將向您介紹 2023 年第四季資產品質和信貸投資組合健康狀況的一些亮點。

Let me begin with NPL trends. Our leading indicator NPL 15 to 90 declined slightly on a sequential basis to 4.1%, in line with our expectations. Our NPL 90-plus ratio remained stable sequentially at 6.1%, also in line with our expectations. Recall that this ratio exhibits a stock behavior as loans move through the delinquency buckets rather than a flow behavior. We maintained our strategy of not selling any credit receivables. Therefore, our NPL rates require no adjustment.

讓我從不良貸款趨勢開始。我們的領先指標不良貸款 15 至 90 環比小幅下降至 4.1%，符合我們的預期。我們的 90 歲以上不良貸款率較上季穩定在 6.1%，也符合我們的預期。回想一下，當貸款通過拖欠桶時，該比率表現出存量行為，而不是流量行為。我們維持不出售任何信用應收帳款的策略。因此，我們的不良貸款率不需要調整。

And as Lago mentioned earlier and we've shared last quarter, looking ahead, we see meaningful opportunities to continue to expand our credit portfolio while seeking attractive returns and robust resilience levels. We anticipate that part of that growth will come from expanding down the credit spectrum. And while this may result in intentionally higher delinquency rates, our goal is to ensure that this will be more than offset by additional revenues, leading to even higher risk-adjusted margins as we expand.

正如拉戈早些時候提到的以及我們上季度分享的那樣，展望未來，我們看到了繼續擴大信貸投資組合的有意義的機會，同時尋求有吸引力的回報和強勁的彈性水平。我們預計成長的一部分將來自信貸範圍的擴大。雖然這可能會導致故意提高拖欠率，但我們的目標是確保這將被額外收入所抵消，從而在我們擴張時帶來更高的風險調整利潤。

These 2 charts provide information about renegotiations in our Brazil credit portfolio. As you can see on the left-hand chart, around 9.6% of balances have been renegotiated by the end of Q4 2023, in comparison to 9.4% in the prior quarter. Following the trend of previous quarters, more than half of these were for loans that were current or less than 15 days late at the time of renegotiation. Moreover, 88% of renegotiations were for loans less than 90 days past due at the time of renegotiation. This goes to show that renegotiations have a limited impact on NPL rates. On the right-hand chart, you can see that we maintain a comfortable level of provision coverage above the 90-plus balances of our renegotiated portfolio at 243.5%.

這兩張圖表提供了有關我們巴西信貸投資組合重新談判的資訊。如左圖所示，到 2023 年第四季末，約 9.6% 的餘額已重新協商，而上一季為 9.4%。與前幾季的趨勢一樣，其中一半以上是當前貸款或重新談判時逾期不到 15 天的貸款。此外，88%的重新談判是針對重新談判時逾期未滿 90 天的貸款。這顯示重新談判對不良貸款率的影響有限。在右側圖表中，您可以看到我們的撥備覆蓋率保持在 243.5% 的舒適水平，高於重新協商的投資組合的 90 多個餘額。

As we mentioned on previous occasions, the growth of our portfolio is what has been driving the bulk of the increase in our credit provisions. This is because we front-load provisions at loan origination in accordance with IFRS 9 standards. This quarter, however, we have incurred a lower credit loss allowance expense than last quarter at $592 million. This was mainly driven by higher credit card and personal loan recoveries as a result of the Desenrola government-sponsored debt renegotiation program as well as collections initiatives we implemented to capitalize on it. We estimate the size of this impact to be around $60 million to $70 million in the fourth quarter credit loss allowance expense.

正如我們之前提到的，我們投資組合的成長是信貸撥備增加的主要動力。這是因為我們根據 IFRS 9 標準在貸款發放時預載撥備。然而，本季我們的信用損失準備支出為 5.92 億美元，低於上季。這主要是由於 Desenrola 政府資助的債務重新談判計劃以及我們為此實施的催收舉措導致信用卡和個人貸款回收率提高。我們估計第四季信用損失準備金支出的影響規模約為 6,000 萬至 7,000 萬美元。

As Lago explained earlier, this is virtually neutral to earnings as these higher recoveries are offset by discounts that are captured in the other interest expense line item and which negatively impacted our net interest margin in the quarter. Risk-adjusted net interest margin was not impacted by these 2 offsetting dynamics and continue to expand, reaching 10.2% in the quarter, up 120 basis points sequentially. This again is a reflection of our pricing for risk and pursuit of resilient returns as we underwrite credit.

正如拉戈之前解釋的那樣，這對收益幾乎是中性的，因為這些較高的回收率被其他利息支出項目中的折扣所抵消，並對我們本季度的淨息差產生了負面影響。風險調整後淨利差並未受到這兩種抵銷動態的影響，並持續擴大，本季達到 10.2%，季增 120 個基點。這再次反映了我們在承保信貸時對風險的定價以及對彈性回報的追求。

In conclusion, we are pleased to report another strong set of results this quarter, which reflect the progress we've made and the track record we've built over the years. Our healthy asset quality and robust returns reflect our effective risk-based pricing approach and superior credit underwriting capabilities. We are thrilled about the prospects for continued growth and are confident that we will maintain and expand the strong track record of delivering superior returns going forward.

總而言之，我們很高興在本季報告另一組強勁的業績，這反映了我們所取得的進步以及我們多年來建立的業績記錄。我們健康的資產品質和穩健的回報反映了我們有效的基於風險的定價方法和卓越的信用承銷能力。我們對持續成長的前景感到興奮，並相信我們將保持並擴大未來提供卓越回報的良好記錄。

Now having shared these data and perspectives on credit and asset quality, let me now turn the call back to our Founder and CEO, David Velez, for his concluding remarks. David, back to you.

現在分享了這些關於信貸和資產品質的數據和觀點，現在讓我把電話轉回給我們的創辦人兼執行長 David Velez，讓他作總結發言。大衛，回到你身邊。

As mentioned earlier, we believe we're in the very early innings of a full transformation of financial services in Latin America and globally, with already close to 100 million customers in Latin America, but owning less than 5% of the financial services revenue in the continent. We think it's imperative we continue investing significantly and responsibly in growth and expansion versus trying to optimize short-term earnings.

如前所述，我們相信我們正處於拉丁美洲和全球金融服務全面轉型的早期階段，拉丁美洲已經擁有近 1 億客戶，但在拉丁美洲擁有的金融服務收入不到 5%。大陸。我們認為，我們必須繼續在成長和擴張方面進行大量、負責任的投資，而不是試圖優化短期收益。

To give two data points around how much we're currently investing. In 2023, our operations in Mexico and Colombia accounted for only 6% of our consolidated revenues, but represented nearly 21% of our headcount. As of the end of Q4 '23, approximately 42% of our operational personnel was allocated to growth and moonshot projects, which were not yet operating at scale or not operating at all. In 2024, we will double down on our investments in new products and features, and we will double down on our investments in Mexico and Colombia. While we believe we will continue to operate with healthy levels of profitability the opportunities we have ahead of us are so compelling that we believe it is time for planting, not for harvesting.

提供有關我們目前投資金額的兩個數據點。 2023 年，我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的業務僅占我們合併收入的 6%，但占我們員工總數的近 21%。截至 23 年第 4 季末，我們大約 42% 的營運人員被分配到成長和登月項目，這些項目尚未大規模營運或根本沒有營運。 2024 年，我們將加倍增加對新產品和功能的投資，並將加倍增加對墨西哥和哥倫比亞的投資。雖然我們相信我們將繼續以健康的盈利水平運營，但我們面前的機會是如此引人注目，以至於我們相信現在是播種的時候，而不是收穫的時候。

We find ourselves at a particularly exciting moment where the landscape of the Latin American financial services industry has undergone rapid transformation. The emergence of new players like Nu, coupled with technological advancements and evolving pro competition regulatory frameworks presents us with unprecedented opportunities. Moreover, Nu's distinctive position posting exceptional access to capital and talent in the Latin American region sets a stage for a potential success. This opportunity is ours to seize.

我們發現自己正處於一個特別令人興奮的時刻，拉丁美洲金融服務業的格局正經歷快速轉變。像 Nu 這樣的新玩家的出現，加上技術的進步和不斷發展的職業競賽監管框架，為我們帶來了前所未有的機會。此外，Nu 的獨特地位使其能夠在拉丁美洲地區獲得資本和人才，為潛在的成功奠定了基礎。我們要抓住這個機會。

I would like to end outlining our priorities for 2024 as well as how we believe we should be graded by the market against these objectives. Our first priority is to scale Mexico. Building on the launch of Cuenta Nu and the initiation of deposit and customer scaling last year, success in 2024 entails substantial growth in our customer base in the country, continued expansion of our deposit base and accelerate credit growth, possibly with new products beyond credit card. Additionally, we plan to launch a number of new products and features, reinforcing cash-in and cash-out solutions along with ramp-up in primary banking customers.

最後，我想概述我們 2024 年的優先事項，以及我們認為市場應如何根據這些目標對我們進行評分。我們的首要任務是擴大墨西哥規模。在去年推出Cuenta Nu 以及啟動存款和客戶規模擴張的基礎上，2024 年的成功需要我們在該國的客戶群大幅增長，繼續擴大我們的存款基礎並加速信貸增長，可能還會推出信用卡以外的新產品。此外，我們計劃推出許多新產品和功能，加強現金存取解決方案以及主要銀行客戶的增加。

Our second priority is to ramp up secured lending in Brazil. Following the successful launches of payroll lending for federal and public servants in April 2023 and for pensioners and retirees in October 2023, we are reaching approximately 50% of the total addressable market in Brazil today. Operating with interest rates at 20% to 30% discounts compared to the industry average, thanks to our fully digital direct-to-consumer distribution. We have recently introduced the portability functionality. These features enables us to bring credit from our banks and refinance those at lower rates.

我們的第二個優先事項是增加巴西的擔保貸款。繼 2023 年 4 月成功推出針對聯邦和公務員以及 2023 年 10 月針對退休金領取者和退休人員的薪資貸款後，我們目前已佔據巴西潛在市場總額的約 50%。由於我們完全數位化的直接面向消費者的分銷，與行業平均水平相比，營運利率有 20% 至 30% 的折扣。我們最近推出了可移植性功能。這些功能使我們能夠從銀行獲得信貸並以較低的利率進行再融資。

Success for 2024 entails expanding our portability solution for all eligible customers, adding new contracts to adapt into more than 70% of the total addressable market by year-end, and rolling out the anticipation of FGTS product for the entire customer base. With these initiatives, we aim at secured lending representing a meaningful portion of our total personal loan origination by the end of 2024.

2024 年的成功需要為所有符合條件的客戶擴展我們的可移植性解決方案，增加新合約以在年底前適應超過 70% 的目標市場，並為整個客戶群推出預期的 FGTS 產品。透過這些舉措，我們的目標是到 2024 年底，擔保貸款在我們個人貸款發放總額中佔據相當大的比例。

Priority #3 is to continue advancing into the higher income segment in Brazil. We have refined our segmentation effort by establishing two new thresholds, Supercore, encompassing customers with monthly income between BRL 5,000 and BRL 12,000 and High Income encompassing customers with monthly income above BRL 12,000. In Brazil, we already serve over 70% of Supercore customers and 60% of High Income customers existing in the market. Hence, our main opportunity is to increase our share of wallet among the customers we already have inside our customer base. Success for 2024 entails further expanding our base of Ultravioleta customers and increasing their usage of our products, launching more products and services tailored for these individuals and growing the number of our primary bank accounts within these segments.

第三要務是繼續進軍巴西的高收入階層。我們透過建立兩個新的門檻來完善我們的細分工作：超級核心（涵蓋月收入在5,000 雷亞爾至12,000 雷亞爾之間的客戶）和高收入（包括月收入在12,000 雷亞爾以上的客戶）。在巴西，我們已經為市場上超過 70% 的超級核心客戶和 60% 的高收入客戶提供服務。因此，我們的主要機會是增加我們在客戶群中已有客戶中的錢包份額。 2024 年的成功需要進一步擴大我們的 Ultravioleta 客戶群並增加他們對我們產品的使用，推出更多為這些個人量身定制的產品和服務，並增加我們在這些細分市場中的主要銀行帳戶數量。

Finally, our fourth priority is making the concept of the money platform tangible and concrete for our customers. The Nubank of the future is a multi-country consumer technology platform that provides products and services in financial services and beyond. And we believe that the compounding effects of real-time payments, open banking and AI are accelerants for us in this strategic direction, and we won 2024 to market inflection point in the products and services we launched, leveraging these technologies. Success in 2024 entails launching several new products and features to our customers that will continue to increase our value proposition while using technology to increase even more our operating leverage.

最後，我們的第四個優先事項是讓貨幣平台的概念對我們的客戶來說是切實可行的。未來的 Nubank 是一個跨國消費科技平台，提供金融服務及其他領域的產品和服務。我們相信，即時支付、開放銀行和人工智慧的複合效應是我們這一策略方向的加速器，我們利用這些技術推出的產品和服務贏得了 2024 年市場轉折點。 2024 年的成功需要向我們的客戶推出多種新產品和功能，這些產品和功能將繼續提高我們的價值主張，同時利用技術進一步提高我們的營運槓桿。

With that, we invite your questions. Thank you for your attention and participation.

就此，我們邀請您提問。感謝您的關注與參與。

(Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer.

（操作員指示）我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。

Thank you very much, operator. And we are going to start the Q&A session with a question posed by Jorge Kuri from Morgan Stanley.

非常感謝您，接線生。我們將以摩根士丹利的 Jorge Kuri 提出的問題開始問答環節。

Congrats on the great numbers for the quarter and the year. I wanted to ask about payroll loans. And if you can give us some flavor of how are you winning on payroll loans? Evidently, David said at the very end that you're offering prices that are well below what the incumbents are offering. Is this just across the board for all the clients? Are you seeing some sensitivity on prices where people are just switching their payroll loans to you because you have a better user experience or is every single client really coming at a much lower rate, and that seems to be the reason they're moving?

恭喜本季和全年出色的業績。我想問一下關於薪資貸款的問題。您能否告訴我們您是如何贏得薪資貸款的？顯然，大衛最後說，你們提供的價格遠低於現有企業的價格。這對所有客戶來說都是一刀切嗎？您是否發現人們對價格有些敏感，因為您有更好的用戶體驗，或者每個客戶確實以更低的利率來將工資貸款轉移給您，而這似乎是他們轉移的原因？

Is it payroll loans to people that didn't have a payroll loan or are you refinancing payroll loans? Are those refinancing mainly coming from government banks, which normally tend to have a lot of the government payrolls or you're also seeing some refinancings coming from the private sector banks? And on the payroll lending as well, are you seeing the payroll payment being deposited to you as well? That would be my first question.

是向沒有薪資貸款的人提供薪資貸款還是您正在為薪資貸款再融資？這些再融資主要來自政府銀行（通常擁有大量政府薪資），還是您也看到一些再融資來自私部門銀行？在薪資貸款方面，您是否也看到薪資付款也存入您的帳戶？這是我的第一個問題。

And if you don't mind, I would like to add a second question about one of your priorities for 2024. David mentioned Nu products for the Supercore client base, meaning sort of like the high-net-worth individuals. What type of products are you talking about there?

如果您不介意的話，我想就您 2024 年的優先事項之一添加第二個問題。David 提到了針對 Supercore 客戶群的 Nu 產品，這意味著有點像高淨值個人。你在那裡談論什麼類型的產品？

Jorge, this is Jag Duggal, Chief Product Officer. Let me answer your first question and get into some of what you're asking around our secured loan business and strategy. A couple of key points that I would make. First of all, about equal volumes of our secured loan origination in Q4 came from FGTS, loans against the social security savings of customers and then from consignado, particularly the federal employees, SIAPE and the retirees.

豪爾赫，我是賈格‧杜加爾，首席產品長。讓我回答您的第一個問題，並談談您對我們的擔保貸款業務和策略提出的一些問題。我要指出的幾個要點。首先，我們第四季度發放的擔保貸款大約等量來自 FGTS，即針對客戶社會安全儲蓄的貸款，然後來自委託人，特別是聯邦僱員、SIAPE 和退休人員。

The formula we are following in terms of why customers are coming to us is very specific and will be familiar to you as someone who has followed the company for a long time. We offer a dramatically simplified digital mobile experience, 100% mobile. Because we are able to offer that service direct to consumer, making our cost -- helping to make our costs very low, that allows us, as David talked about, to offer a significantly lower price than the market average. And that's a pretty powerful flywheel where customers come both for the simplicity of the experience and also for the superior price. And we have found this to be a market where consumers are very price sensitive.

對於客戶來找我們的原因，我們遵循的公式非常具體，作為長期關注該公司的人，您會很熟悉。我們提供大幅簡化的數位行動體驗，100% 行動。因為我們能夠直接向消費者提供該服務，從而使我們的成本非常低，正如大衛所說，這使我們能夠提供比市場平均水平低得多的價格。這是一個非常強大的飛輪，顧客來到這裡既是為了簡單的體驗，也是為了優惠的價格。我們發現這是一個消費者對價格非常敏感的市場。

Another aspect of your question was, are customers switching from other places. A couple of key points to make here. All of the customers to which we are offering these secured loans are current Nubank customers. So we are fishing in the -- in our own fishbowl, not out in the open sea.

你問題的另一個面向是，客戶是否從其他地方轉移過來。這裡有幾個要點需要說明。我們提供這些擔保貸款的所有客戶都是 Nubank 的現有客戶。所以我們是在自己的魚缸裡釣魚，而不是在公海裡釣魚。

And another key fact to keep in mind in terms of our Q4 results is our product and processes around portability of these loans, which is an important factor in this market are still in their very early stages. And so essentially, all of the loans that we that we originated in Q4 were new loans from customers. And so hopefully, that gives you a real sense of first of all, how relatively early in our road map and in our evolution of this business, we are. And what are the key drivers for the early success and therefore, the drivers of our optimism about how well we can grow this business in 2024, as David talked about.

關於我們第四季度的業績，需要記住的另一個關鍵事實是我們圍繞這些貸款的可轉移性的產品和流程，這是這個市場的一個重要因素，仍處於非常早期的階段。因此，從本質上講，我們在第四季度發放的所有貸款都是來自客戶的新貸款。因此，希望這首先能讓您真正感受到我們在我們的路線圖和這項業務的發展中相對較早的程度。正如 David 所說，早期成功的關鍵驅動因素是什麼，因此，我們對 2024 年這項業務的發展持樂觀態度。

And I would just add one point, Jorge. I think ultimately, it's the same -- kind of the same recipe that we've been following in every single product. And it is the following: technology, distribution or direct-to-consumer distribution enables us to create a product that is better for consumers at lower cost. And ultimately, we measured that by NPS. In this specific category, we're already measuring NPS upwards of 80%, which would be by far the best rated product in the market today. So that tends to be the leading indicator for growth, and that's what we've seen over the past 6 months that we've been starting to roll out. It's traditionally a very off-line experience it takes several weeks. There is a lot of fraud associated sometimes with the offline processes, a lot of paperwork. And so by just offering that direct-to-consumer distribution, we're able to simply better product at lower price. And consumers tend to understand, obviously, that equation.

我只想補充一點，豪爾赫。我認為最終，我們在每個產品中都遵循相同的配方。具體如下：技術、分銷或直接面向消費者的分銷使我們能夠以更低的成本創造出更適合消費者的產品。最終，我們透過 NPS 進行了衡量。在這個特定類別中，我們測量的 NPS 高達 80% 以上，這將是當今市場上評價最高的產品。因此，這往往是成長的領先指標，這就是我們在過去 6 個月中看到的，我們已經開始推出的指標。傳統上，這是一種非常離線的體驗，需要幾週的時間。有時存在許多與離線流程、大量文書工作相關的詐欺行為。因此，透過提供直接面向消費者的分銷，我們能夠以更低的價格提供更好的產品。顯然，消費者往往會理解這個等式。

To your second question on additional products for Supercore, which is a segment or effectively a higher segment or lower income segment of the high income. We are preparing to invest significantly in software-related solutions. We think we don't necessarily compete well in the offline world where there are branches required. And we always said that if you need cash, if you need offline distribution. We're now well positioned there to compete. We are well positioned to compete when software becomes a differentiating factor. And there is a fair amount of differentiation we can do with software for this product.

關於超級核心的第二個問題，超級核心是一個細分市場，或者實際上是高收入群體中的一個較高細分市場或較低收入細分市場。我們正準備在軟體相關解決方案上進行大量投資。我們認為，我們不一定能在需要分支機構的線下世界中很好地競爭。我們總是說，如果你需要現金，如果你需要線下分銷。我們現在在競爭中處於有利地位。當軟體成為差異化因素時，我們就處於競爭優勢。我們可以透過該產品的軟體實現相當多的差異化。

One specific example is we're rolling out what we call your household controls where consumers are able to now enable their children, enable different people in your household to have a number of different cards to save jointly. And that type of product show a pretty significant pain for these households. We tend to see use cases where the main person in the household got a Nubank card, but then gave that car to their younger son or to the driver. So it's being used, but it's not being used as the primary card. By adding a number of software capabilities, which, by the way, are relatively hard to program, we think we're going to be able to solve a big pain point for consumers, and it happens to also have certain network effects that we tend to like along.

一個具體的例子是，我們正在推出所謂的“家庭控制”，消費者現在可以讓他們的孩子、讓家裡的不同人擁有多張不同的卡片來共同儲蓄。這類產品為這些家庭帶來了相當大的痛苦。我們經常看到這樣的用例：家庭主要成員獲得了 Nubank 卡，但隨後將該車交給了他們的小兒子或司機。所以它正在被使用，但它沒有被用作主卡。透過添加一些相對難以編程的軟體功能，我們認為我們將能夠解決消費者的一個大痛點，而且它恰好也具有我們傾向於的某些網絡效應喜歡一起。

So just like that theme of social, there's a number of themes that we will be implementing this year that we think will significantly improve the value proposition and allow us to play in an environment of software and online where we think we can win versus necessarily competing with incumbents in areas or in regions where we don't really have a possibility of competing.

因此，就像社交主題一樣，我們今年將實施許多主題，我們認為這些主題將顯著提高價值主張，並使我們能夠在軟體和線上環境中發揮作用，我們認為我們可以在競爭中獲勝與我們實際上沒有競爭可能性的領域或地區的現有企業進行競爭。

Thanks for the detailed explanations and congrats again, David.

感謝您的詳細解釋，再次恭喜大衛。

Thank you, Jorge.

謝謝你，豪爾赫。

And our second question comes from the line of Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

我們的第二個問題來自高盛的蒂托·拉巴塔（Tito Labarta）。

Lago, you mentioned that you expect gross margin, I guess, to be relatively stable this year given the investments that you're making. Just hoping if you can clarify a little bit, is this some -- because you expect provisions to be higher as you grow the loan portfolio? Is it interest expenses as you're growing deposits in Mexico where you're remunerating at a higher rate? Is it transactional expenses? Just to understand what's going to keep that gross margin somewhat stable-ish this year? And then just one second point to clarify, the renegotiated discounts that impacted margin and provisions this quarter. Is that a onetime thing? Or should we expect that going forward as well? Or does that reverse next quarter?

拉戈，您提到，鑑於您正在進行的投資，我認為今年的毛利率將相對穩定。只是希望您能澄清一下，這是因為您預計隨著貸款組合的擴大，準備金會更高嗎？是因為您在墨西哥增加存款而支付的利息費用嗎？那裡您的報酬較高？是交易費用嗎？只是為了了解今年毛利率會保持穩定嗎？然後需要澄清的第二點是，重新協商的折扣影響了本季的利潤率和撥備。那是一次性的事嗎？或者我們也應該期待這種情況會繼續發生嗎？或者下個季度情況會發生逆轉嗎？

Tito, let me try to address both of them. I think first on the gross margin, we will largely see 2 effects throughout 2024 in our expectations. Number one, our Brazilian operations are expected to continue to post expanding net interest margins and expanding risk-adjusted net interest margins primarily as we continue to grow the size of our credit book and optimize our balance sheet. On the other hand, we do expect to make additional investments, and as David mentioned, to double down our resource locations to Mexico and Colombia. And those are markets that are less mature than Brazil. And therefore, the faster we grow in those markets, especially given the expected credit loss provisioning, we will have to make additional investments in terms of our P&L. The combination of those 2 effects, expanding margins in Brazil and additional investments in Mexico and Colombia are largely to be offset. And therefore, we do not expect our gross profit margins to evolve materially away from the zip code where it was in 2023. So that's the first question.

蒂托，讓我試著解決這兩個問題。我認為首先在毛利率方面，我們預計整個 2024 年將主要看到兩個影響。第一，隨著我們繼續擴大信貸帳簿規模並優化資產負債表，我們的巴西業務預計將繼續擴大淨利差和風險調整後淨利差。另一方面，我們確實希望進行額外的投資，正如大衛所提到的那樣，將我們的資源地點增加到墨西哥和哥倫比亞。這些市場不如巴西成熟。因此，我們在這些市場的成長越快，特別是考慮到預期的信用損失撥備，我們就必須在損益方面進行額外的投資。這兩種影響的結合，即巴西利潤率的擴大以及墨西哥和哥倫比亞的額外投資，將在很大程度上被抵消。因此，我們預計我們的毛利率不會大幅偏離 2023 年郵遞區號的水平。這是第一個問題。

The second question on the collections. We do have just to recap the explanation in which we had on one hand, additional discounts that we provided to our consumers, order of magnitude, $60 million to $70 million. On the other hand, additional recoveries that we had also in relatively similar amounts of [$60 million to $70 million], which were neutral to our P&L and neutral to gross profits. Although Desenrola has announced that it will continue throughout the first quarter of 2024. We do expect that most of these impacts would have been seen in the fourth quarter 2023. So we will likely see some additional impact of this, Tito, throughout the first quarter, but in a much less pronounced manner than in the fourth quarter of 2023.

第二個問題是關於收藏。我們確實需要回顧一下我們的解釋，一方面，我們向消費者提供了額外的折扣，數量級為 6000 萬至 7000 萬美元。另一方面，我們的額外追回金額也相對相似[6000萬至7000萬美元]，這對我們的損益表和毛利都是中性的。儘管 Desenrola 已宣布它將持續到 2024 年第一季。我們確實預計大部分影響將在 2023 年第四季度出現。因此，Tito，我們可能會在整個第一季看到一些額外的影響，但與2023 年第四季相比，明顯程度要低得多。

Okay. That's very clear, Lago. If I can ask just one follow-up just to clarify. So on the additional investments, in Mexico and Colombia, will those come sort of below the gross margin or the gross profit line? So would that impact operating expenses? I guess how do you think about efficiency for 2024, if you can give some color on that?

好的。這很清楚，拉戈。如果我可以問一個後續問題只是為了澄清。那麼，在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的額外投資中，這些投資是否會低於毛利率或毛利線？那麼這會影響營運費用嗎？我想您如何看待 2024 年的效率？您能否對此提供一些說明？

Yes. So I think most of the investments in Mexico and Colombia, Tito, will come above the gross profit line, namely in CLA and interest expenses as we basically increased the growth pace of our interest-earning assets and as we increase the volume of deposits in those countries. We do expect efficiency ratio not only for Brazil, but also on a consolidated basis to post continuous improvements throughout 2024 and beyond.

是的。因此，我認為墨西哥和哥倫比亞的大部分投資，Tito，將高於毛利潤線，即 CLA 和利息支出，因為我們基本上提高了生息資產的增長速度，並且隨著我們增加存款量那些國家。我們確實預計，巴西的效率比不僅會在 2024 年及以後持續改善，而且在綜合基礎上也會持續改善。

And congrats on the results.

並對結果表示祝賀。

Thanks, Tito.

謝謝，蒂托。

And our next question comes from the line of Mario Pierry at BofA.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Mario Pierry。

My question is related to Mexico. Can you give us a little bit more color, the profile of clients that you're attracting in the country? Clearly, right, like you're attracting clients by having a high remuneration on deposits. So I would imagine these are probably higher -- you're attracting more of the higher income segments. You disclosed that you have 5.2 million clients in Mexico. Can you tell us how many credit cards outstanding you have in Mexico?

我的問題與墨西哥有關。您能為我們提供更多信息，即您在該國吸引的客戶的概況嗎？顯然，是的，就像你透過高存款報酬來吸引客戶一樣。所以我想這些可能會更高——你會吸引更多高收入的群體。您透露您在墨西哥有 520 萬客戶。您能告訴我們您在墨西哥有多少張信用卡未償還嗎？

And then finally, it's still related to Mexico, right? The choice of remunerating deposits of 15% when the traditional banks are probably remunerating clients around 70% of market rates, so your remuneration is probably twice as large as the traditional bank. So just wanted to get an understanding, how did you come up with this 15%? Is there room for the rate to increase? And then finally, on Mexico, if you can disclose any data on loan book there? Or what kind of NPLs you're seeing? That would be great.

最後，它仍然與墨西哥有關，對吧？當傳統銀行給客戶的報酬可能是市場利率的70%左右時，選擇15%的報酬存款，所以你的報酬可能是傳統銀行的兩倍。所以只是想了解一下，你是怎麼得出這個 15% 的？利率還有上升空間嗎？最後，關於墨西哥，您是否可以透露那裡的貸款簿數據？或是您看到了什麼樣的不良貸款？那太好了。

Mario, David here. Thank you for the question. So since we started Mexico about 3 years ago, I would say we've seen about a 50%-50% split between banked customers and unbanked customers. It's been fairly even. Remember that Mexico has only about 12% credit card penetration. So literally, the big majority of the country is completely wide open for us. We tend to begin as a strategy. This was similar in Brazil to target more high income at the beginning and then eventually, there is a bit of decrease toward mass market. And that shift just to happen faster in Mexico to the 50%-50% split that I've been mentioning.

馬裡奧，大衛在這裡。感謝你的提問。因此，自從我們大約 3 年前在墨西哥成立以來，我想說我們已經看到有銀行帳戶的客戶和無銀行帳戶的客戶之間的比例大約是 50%-50%。已經相當均勻了請記住，墨西哥的信用卡普及率僅為 12% 左右。所以從字面上看，這個國家的大部分地區對我們完全開放。我們傾向於從戰略開始。這與巴西類似，一開始就瞄準更高的收入，最終大眾市場的收入下降。這種轉變在墨西哥發生得更快，達到我剛才提到的 50%-50%。

Now when we decided to increase the yield in Mexico a couple of months ago, the reason why we did that is we saw an opportunity to reposition the deposit product, even more attractive to consumers and accelerate the flywheel growth that we were having there. And that decision, while it's definitely expensive, it's a big investment, it's paying for itself actually fairly quickly. We're seeing an improvement in the type of customer segmentation that we're having. We're now seeing many more Mexican -- high-income Mexicans coming in, that is having beneficial impacts to credit quality.

現在，當我們幾個月前決定提高墨西哥的收益率時，我們這樣做的原因是我們看到了重新定位存款產品的機會，對消費者更具吸引力並加速我們在那裡的飛輪增長。這個決定雖然肯定很昂貴，但卻是一項巨大的投資，而且實際上很快就能收回成本。我們看到我們的客戶細分類型有所改善。我們現在看到更多的墨西哥人——高收入的墨西哥人進來，這對信貸品質產生了有益的影響。

That's also adding a different type of customer that once you put deposit, it creates a pretty important data point for us, which allows us to take into account in terms of acceptance of the credit card application and even within limits. So we're able to increase limits a bit faster, driving unit economics faster.

這也增加了一種不同類型的客戶，一旦您存入存款，它就會為我們創建一個非常重要的數據點，這使我們能夠在接受信用卡申請時甚至在限制範圍內進行考慮。因此，我們能夠更快地增加限制，更快地提高單位經濟效益。

Obviously, it brings the deposits that we need to be able to really fund the business. As you remember, we started as a monoliner where the biggest execution risk that we have is not having funding figured out and we had to depend on our banks to fund ourselves. That risk is gone. It literally went away in 3 months of this new yield. We surpassed significantly any projections that we had on deposits. So in a way, we have removed one of the big execution risk that we had for Mexico, and that's why it was one of our #3 priorities -- or top 3 priorities for 2023. So net-net, it is a big investment that we decided to do for customers. But it's paying off handsomely, and it has positioned -- puts us in a very different trajectory in terms of growth and momentum in a market that we think is very significant for us.

顯然，它帶來了我們真正為業務提供資金所需的存款。正如您所記得的，我們最初是一家單一企業，我們面臨的最大執行風險是沒有找到資金，我們必須依靠銀行為自己提供資金。這種風險已經消失了。這個新收益在 3 個月內就消失了。我們大大超過了我們對存款的任何預測。因此，在某種程度上，我們消除了墨西哥面臨的一項重大執行風險，這就是為什麼它是我們的第三大優先事項之一，或者說是2023 年的三大優先事項之一。因此，這是一項巨大的投資我們決定為客戶做的事情。但它的回報豐厚，而且它已經定位——讓我們在一個我們認為對我們非常重要的市場的成長和動力方面處於一個非常不同的軌跡。

The last thing I'll say versus the banks. I think you've been very generous with competitors in Mexico. When you actually look at some of the biggest incumbents, they actually pay zero. Most customers, especially in mass markets, they get no money paid buybacks. In fact, they see deposits. Most mass market customers in Mexico are paying the banks to hold their money. They're not even used to the concept of banks paying them for their money. And it's amazing to see the reaction of customers once we start showing them that banks should pay them for their deposits because they're used to paying a lot of fees and pay zero.

我要說的最後一件事是針對銀行。我認為你們對墨西哥的競爭對手非常慷慨。當你真正觀察一些最大的現有企業時，你會發現他們實際上支付的是零。大多數客戶，尤其是大眾市場的客戶，他們都沒有得到有償回購。事實上，他們看到的是存款。墨西哥的大多數大眾市場客戶都會向銀行付款以保留其資金。他們甚至不習慣銀行為他們付款的概念。一旦我們開始向客戶展示銀行應該向他們支付存款，因為他們習慣於支付大量費用並支付零費用，那麼看到客戶的反應真是令人驚訝。

So it is indeed a significantly higher and more attractive over position than incumbents. It would be extremely expensive for incumbents to match, and we haven't really seen them matching. So I think that positions us very well as an attractive position. It is important to say that even at 15% where we are, given the economics of the credit card business, it's a unit economic positive move. So it's not that we are making a crazy, irrational decision. It's a positive unit economics at 15%. And then as we scale and we get all these deposits, and we improve the value proposition of the account with a lot of the software that we're building and a lot of the cash-in and cash-out and a lot of the missing features then we will get to eventually rationalize a bit that expense.

因此，與現有企業相比，它的地位確實要高得多，也更具吸引力。對於現任者來說，匹配的成本極其昂貴，而且我們還沒有真正看到他們匹配。所以我認為這使我們處於一個非常有吸引力的位置。值得一提的是，即使我們目前的成長率為 15%，考慮到信用卡業務的經濟狀況，這也是單位經濟的積極舉措。因此，我們並不是做出瘋狂、非理性的決定。 15% 的單位經濟效益是正面的。然後，隨著我們規模的擴大，我們獲得了所有這些存款，我們透過我們正在建立的許多軟體、大量的現金進出和大量的缺失來改善帳戶的價值主張那麼我們最終將能夠合理化這筆費用。

And that's exactly what we did in Brazil 2 years ago when we went from 100% of CDI, to 80% of CDI and we saw the quality of the product improving, not decreasing. So that is sort of the strategy of the product is we want to make sure that the product quality continues to increase, continue to add additional deposits or balance sheet in Mexico will look a bit odd for a while as it looks odd -- or even still for us in Brazil with a lot of liabilities. But eventually, that's a great problem to have because then we're able to deploy all of that firepower in growing the credit card opportunity, which again, is huge, 12% credit card penetration. So we're very excited about tackling that.

這正是我們兩年前在巴西所做的，當時我們從 100% 的 CDI 提高到 80% 的 CDI，我們看到產品的品質在提高，而不是下降。因此，這就是產品的策略，我們希望確保產品質量繼續提高，繼續增加額外的存款，否則墨西哥的資產負債表將在一段時間內看起來有點奇怪，因為它看起來很奇怪 - 或者甚至對於我們巴西人來說，仍然有很多負債。但最終，這是一個很大的問題，因為這樣我們就能夠部署所有火力來增加信用卡機會，這同樣是巨大的，信用卡普及率達到 12%。因此，我們對解決這個問題感到非常興奮。

Let me follow up then on these deposits. Are you seeing -- how sticky are they? Are you remunerating them from day 1? Or are you doing some of the type of remuneration like you did in Brazil that you don't remunerate for the first 30 days? And just the number of total cards standing that you have in Mexico now?

接下來讓我跟進這些存款的情況。你看到了嗎——它們有多黏？您從第一天起就給他們報酬嗎？或者您是否正在像在巴西那樣從事前 30 天不支付報酬的某些類型的報酬？現在墨西哥的牌總數是多少？

So customers need to invest in what we have called [cajita or caixinha]. So customers deposit the account, and they do invest in a small box that we have. So far, the deposits have been very low churn, so significant engagement. It's up to us to make sure that, that engagement continues, and then we have a number of different capabilities to do that. First one obviously is giving a great critical product and then add a number of different software features to make sure that those deposits stay. So far, they're staying and so we feel very good on having the opportunity to make sure that, that continues to be the case. Unfortunately, in terms of number of just cards, we don't disclose that, that number. But yes, but they continue to accelerate, and we're very happy with those numbers.

因此，客戶需要投資我們所說的[cajita 或 caixinha]。因此，客戶存入帳戶，他們確實投資於我們擁有的一個小盒子。到目前為止，存款流失率非常低，因此參與度很高。我們有責任確保這種參與持續下去，然後我們擁有許多不同的能力來做到這一點。第一個顯然是提供一個出色的關鍵產品，然後添加許多不同的軟體功能以確保這些存款保留下來。到目前為止，他們留下來了，所以我們很高興有機會確保這種情況繼續下去。不幸的是，就卡片的數量而言，我們沒有透露這個數字。但是，是的，但他們繼續加速，我們對這些數字非常滿意。

And our next question comes from the line of Thiago Batista from UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔。

Okay. My question is about the renegotiated loans. By the way, the slide that you provided is really very helpful. My question is, doing a very simple calculation, we got that the level of provisions over those loans achieved 44% in this 4Q. It was 33% in 4Q '21, 40% in 4Q 2022. So if you can comment your strategy over those renegotiated loans? And also if it's possible to assume that this level of 45%, is the amount that Nu believes it will become losses over those renegotiated loans?

好的。我的問題是關於重新談判的貸款。順便說一句，您提供的幻燈片確實非常有幫助。我的問題是，經過一個非常簡單的計算，我們發現這些貸款的撥備水準在第四季度達到了 44%。 21 年第 4 季為 33%，2022 年第 4 季為 40%。那麼您能否評論一下您對這些重新談判貸款的策略？另外，如果可以假設 45% 這個水平，Nu 認為這些重新協商的貸款將成為損失的金額嗎？

Thiago, this is Youssef. Thanks for the question. So you are correct in your calculation of the coverage ratio over total receivables outstanding of renegotiated loans, it's around 40%, 45%. The way I would think about it is it will mirror what happens to the total book in terms of coverage ratio. And you can see that evolution on Page 34 of the presentation where you see both the coverage ratio over total balance and coverage ratio over NPL 90-plus. The dynamic there is similar because as loans move through the delinquency buckets and more and more go 90-plus, your coverage ratio of total balance goes up, your coverage ratio of NPL 90-plus tends to be stable or else equal, right? So that same dynamic applies to renegotiated loans, albeit at a higher rate because renegotiated loans just exhibit a higher level of inherent risk, as you can see on the analysis we provided.

蒂亞戈，這是優素福。謝謝你的提問。所以你對重新協商貸款的未償還應收帳款總額的覆蓋率的計算是正確的，大約是40%、45%。我的想法是，它將反映整本書的覆蓋率。您可以在簡報第 34 頁上看到這種演變，您可以看到總餘額的覆蓋率和不良貸款 90 以上的覆蓋率。那裡的動態是相似的，因為隨著貸款進入拖欠類別並且越來越多的貸款達到90 以上，您的總餘額覆蓋率上升，您的不良貸款90 以上的覆蓋率趨於穩定或相等，對嗎？因此，同樣的動態也適用於重新談判的貸款，儘管利率較高，因為重新談判的貸款只會表現出更高水平的固有風險，正如您在我們提供的分析中看到的那樣。

And our next question comes from the line of Gustavo Schroden of Bradesco.

我們的下一個問題來自布拉德斯科的古斯塔沃·施羅登（Gustavo Schroden）。

Well, my question is regarding your investments in the High Income segment in Brazil, more specifically regarding the investments that you made. I think that Lago mentioned during the presentation that a part of the, let's say, impact on the efficiency ratio was regarding the investments in High Income segment. So if you could, besides Mexico and Colombia, could you give us a little bit of more color on how we should think in terms of these investments in high-income segment? Because as you mentioned, it is a target and as you mentioned and as you know that especially high-income segments, usually, it costs higher than the, let's say, the low income segments because, I mean, more investments, different necessities or needs. So if you could give us -- these investments, this impact regarding High Income segment is specific on this quarter? Or should we expect that further, let's say, impacts on efficiency ratio regarding this strategy?

嗯，我的問題是關於您在巴西高收入領域的投資，更具體地說是關於您所做的投資。我認為拉戈在演講中提到，對效率比的影響的一部分與高收入領域的投資有關。那麼，除了墨西哥和哥倫比亞之外，您能否給我們更多關於我們應該如何思考高收入領域的投資的資訊？因為正如您所提到的，這是一個目標，正如您所提到的，正如您所知，特別是高收入群體，通常它的成本高於低收入群體，因為我的意思是，更多的投資、不同的必需品或需求。那麼，如果您能給我們—這些投資，對高收入細分市場的影響是特定於本季的嗎？或者我們應該預期該策略會對效率比產生進一步的影響？

Gustavo, this is Lago. Thanks for your question. I think in short, no, you should not expect to see any material change in the efficiency trends that we have seen over the past quarters. So as I mentioned in the opening remarks, in the fourth quarter of 2023, we saw 2 impact that drove kind of efficiency rate 100% -- 100 basis points up. It was a higher concentration of marketing expenses in the fourth quarter and additional investments in technology and data. Those 2 effects combined accounted for about 170 basis points, and we believe they will be reversed in the coming quarters.

古斯塔沃，這是拉戈。謝謝你的提問。我認為簡而言之，不，你不應該指望我們在過去幾季看到的效率趨勢會發生任何重大變化。正如我在開場白中提到的，在 2023 年第四季度，我們看到了 2 個影響，推動效率達到 100%，即提高 100 個基點。這是第四季度行銷費用更加集中以及對技術和數據的額外投資。這兩種影響加起來約佔 170 個基點，我們相信它們將在未來幾季逆轉。

So if you take into account those 170 basis points, you will continue to see additional improvements in efficiency ratio. In fact, we're already at midpoint of the first quarter of 2024, and we already seen efficiency ratios being driven to the places where we expect them to be, which is lower and better going forward. The main investments that we are doing to increase our share of wallet within the higher-income customers, I would say, are largely broken down in 2 stages.

因此，如果考慮到這 170 個基點，您將繼續看到效率比率的進一步提高。事實上，我們已經處於 2024 年第一季的中點，我們已經看到效率比率已達到我們預期的水平，未來會更低、更好。我想說，我們為增加高收入客戶的錢包份額所做的主要投資主要分為兩個階段。

I think in the first stage, which has started about 18 months ago, we invested a lot of time and energy in the development of new products and features to acquire high-income customers. And if you define a high-income customers as someone who has an expected monthly income above BRL 12,000, we already have at Nubank as of the end of the fourth quarter of 2023, over 60% of those are already customers of Nubank. So the first stage was customer acquisition with very low customer acquisition costs.

我認為在大約18個月前開始的第一階段，我們投入了大量的時間和精力來開發新產品和功能，以獲得高收入客戶。如果將高收入客戶定義為預計每月收入超過 12,000 雷亞爾的客戶，那麼截至 2023 年第四季末，Nubank 已經擁有了這些客戶，其中超過 60% 已經是 Nubank 的客戶。所以第一階段是獲客，獲客成本很低。

The second stage is customer principality. Building on what David and Jag mentioned earlier today, and we will do so through the development of our banking payments and investment products. They will be material investments in terms of human resources, but they would not necessarily drive any material change to the cost structure that we have had in Brazil over the past 2 years. But Jag, I'm not sure if you wanted to add anything about the types of investments and products that we will launch.

第二階段是顧客主體。基於 David 和 Jag 今天早些時候提到的內容，我們將透過開發銀行支付和投資產品來實現這一目標。它們將是人力資源方面的重大投資，但不一定會對過去兩年巴西的成本結構產生任何重大變化。但是 Jag，我不確定您是否想補充有關我們將推出的投資類型和產品的任何內容。

Yes, I'll quickly do so, Lago. So within the context of what Lago just said, which is that we expect our efficiency ratio to not show continued trends in the direction we saw this quarter. We are continuing to invest significantly in existing products and in new products, many of which are geared towards the Supercore segment as well as the High Income segment. As Lago mentioned, we have a majority of those customers, 70% for the Supercore, 60% for the High Income already. As customers of Nubank now how do we drive engagement and principality over time.

是的，我很快就會這樣做，拉戈。因此，在拉戈剛才所說的背景下，我們預期我們的效率比率不會顯示出本季我們所看到的持續趨勢。我們將繼續對現有產品和新產品進行大量投資，其中許多產品面向超級核心細分市場以及高收入細分市場。正如 Lago 所提到的，我們擁有大部分客戶，其中 70% 是超級核心客戶，60% 是高收入客戶。作為 Nubank 的客戶，我們現在如何隨著時間的推移提高參與度和公信力。

A few trends that we are very happy with show that our flagship product for the high income, our Ultravioleta credit card has, over the course of 2023, shown dramatic gains in the Net Promoter Score. We are now the highest Net Promoter Score bank according to Bain for this segment, and that mirrors some of the trends we were tracking internally. And with that growing customer love of the product, which offers them 1% cash back and 200% CDI returns on that cash back along with other features. We are seeing significant growth in their usage of the card and in their satisfaction with the credit lines that we are giving them, which is all building a flywheel together.

我們非常高興的一些趨勢表明，我們的高收入旗艦產品 Ultravioleta 信用卡在 2023 年的淨推薦值方面取得了巨大的進步。根據貝恩公司的數據，我們現在是該細分市場淨推薦值最高的銀行，這反映了我們內部追蹤的一些趨勢。隨著客戶對該產品的喜愛程度不斷提高，該產品為他們提供 1% 的現金返還，並根據現金返還以及其他功能提供 200% 的 CDI 回報。我們看到他們對該卡的使用以及對我們提供的信用額度的滿意度顯著增長，所有這些都共同構建了一個飛輪。

Another major investment we made in the course of 2023 was to extend a bundle around the flagship card, the Ultravioleta bundle, which has a series of features from a free toll tag, free Rappi Prime, special customer service lanes for these customers, et cetera. Around the card and the bundle, we are investing in features and products around banking, around investments around insurance that will gradually manifest themselves in our product, and we expect will drive an increasingly complete solution for this segment, although those are investments that will layer in through the year, all within the context of what Lago shared, which is these are accounted for even as we continue to have strong operating efficiency.

我們在 2023 年進行的另一項重大投資是圍繞旗艦卡擴展捆綁包 Ultravioleta 捆綁包，該捆綁包具有免費收費標籤、免費 Rappi Prime、針對這些客戶的特殊客戶服務通道等一系列功能。圍繞著卡片和捆綁包，我們正在投資銀行業的功能和產品，圍繞保險的投資，這些將逐漸體現在我們的產品中，我們預計將為該細分市場推動一個日益完整的解決方案，儘管這些投資將分層在這一年中，所有這些都在拉戈分享的背景下進行，即即使我們繼續保持強勁的營運效率，這些也已被考慮在內。

Very clear. Just a -- very, very clear. Just a follow-up on this last part of the answer. You mentioned some products that you have already offered to high-income clients, such as some credit products and the intention to, let's say, if I understood, to accelerate investments in insurance. But could you give us like -- are you thinking to invest or to offer like a mortgage or loans for these high income clients? Or that should be more related to these, let's say, personal loans and investments in insurance? Just if you could give us a more specific products that you could offer to high-income clients besides the credit and insurance and investments?

非常清楚。只是——非常非常清楚。只是答案最後一部分的後續部分。您提到了已經向高收入客戶提供的一些產品，例如一些信貸產品，以及加速保險投資的意圖（如果我理解的話）。但您能否告訴我們—您是否正在考慮為這些高收入客戶進行投資或提供抵押貸款或貸款？或者這應該與個人貸款和保險投資等更多相關？除了信貸、保險和投資之外，您是否可以向我們提供更具體的產品，以便向高收入客戶提供？

Yes, for sure. What I would say to you is, as David laid out in terms of our overall strategy, our ultimate aim is to serve these customers with a holistic and complete suite of solutions for them. And so the credit card was the place we started in terms of the Ultravioleta card but we are looking across our suite in looking at our lending products. Many of our secured lending products are actually disproportionately used, for example, by high-income customers. We are looking at investments, we are looking at insurance.

是肯定的。我想對您說的是，正如 David 在我們的整體策略中所闡述的那樣，我們的最終目標是為這些客戶提供全面、完整的解決方案。因此，信用卡是我們從 Ultravioleta 卡開始的地方，但我們正在全面審視我們的貸款產品。我們的許多擔保貸款產品實際上被高收入客戶等過度使用。我們正在考慮投資，我們正在考慮保險。

They are no doubt certain product lines that we probably won't offer for a while but we are looking across the entire suite of what we have offered in the mass market. And even beyond that, to start with this customer segment, understand their needs, understand where the highest leverage is for them and ultimately for us. And building products across the suite. So if you look across our product suite, you can rest assured that we are either building or investigating and in discovery for products and features that will serve this segment.

毫無疑問，我們可能暫時不會提供某些產品線，但我們正在審視我們在大眾市場上提供的整套產品。除此之外，從這個客戶群開始，了解他們的需求，並了解對他們以及最終對我們來說最大的槓桿作用在哪裡。並在整個套件中建立產品。因此，如果您查看我們的產品套件，您可以放心，我們正在建立或研究並發現將為該細分市場服務的產品和功能。

And our next question comes from the line of Eduardo Rosman at BTG Pactual.

我們的下一個問題來自 BTG Pactual 的 Eduardo Rosman。

Congrats on the numbers. I have a question on regulation in Mexico. Do you believe that there is room for the Mexican regulator to move faster and mimic some of the big changes the Brazilian Central Bank did here in Brazil? How important could be transforming CoDi into something like closer to PIX? How can you help the regulator to understand that, that could benefit penetration of credit in Mexico showing what it was done in Brazil? So it would be interesting to hear your thoughts here.

恭喜你的數字。我有一個關於墨西哥監管的問題。您是否認為墨西哥監管機構有空間加快行動並效仿巴西央行在巴西所做的一些重大變革？將 CoDi 轉變為更接近 PIX 的東西有多重要？您如何幫助監管機構了解，這可能有利於墨西哥信貸的滲透，並展示巴西的做法？因此，在這裡聽到您的想法會很有趣。

Yes. No, thank you for the question. So listen, I think the trend is positive. We've been spending a lot of time with regulators. I think the Brazil case is -- has become an unbelievably clear example, really across Latin America and globally of what a regulator can do to accelerate financial inclusion and bring more competition to our market. And that example is just too hard to ignore for regulators. So when we went to Mexico about 3 years ago, nobody really understood that. Today, when we engage, that's very clear.

是的。不，謝謝你的提問。所以聽著，我認為趨勢是正面的。我們花了很多時間與監管機構打交道。我認為巴西的案例已經成為整個拉丁美洲和全球監管機構可以採取哪些措施來加速金融包容性並為我們的市場帶來更多競爭的一個令人難以置信的明確例子。對監管機構來說，這個例子實在難以忽視。所以當我們大約三年前去墨西哥時，沒有人真正理解這一點。今天，當我們接觸時，這一點非常清楚。

As you said, CoDi was launched a few years ago, there were a couple of design decisions that didn't really make it successful. I think regulatory is going back at it and trying to make it successful. There is real attention and goodwill to see free digital payment system in Mexico. Again, it's hard to oppose that because the benefit for society and for the country are so clear. So what I would say is I wish it would be a bit faster, but the trend is positive and accelerating. And it would be tough to take the opposite view that in 5 years from now, you'll see -- you'll continue to see 12% credit card penetration or that 5 years from now, people will continue to use just cash for everything.

正如您所說，CoDi 是在幾年前推出的，有一些設計決策並沒有真正使其成功。我認為監管部門正在回擊並努力使其成功。墨西哥的免費數位支付系統受到了真正的關注和善意。同樣，很難反對這一點，因為這對社會和國家的好處是顯而易見的。所以我想說的是，我希望速度能快一點，但趨勢是正面的，而且正在加速。很難採取相反的觀點，即從現在起的 5 年內，您將繼續看到 12% 的信用卡普及率，或者從現在起的 5 年後，人們將繼續僅使用現金購買一切。

The puck is going in the direction of full digitalization of the economy. That's one of those trends that you can count on really globally. Brazil was fast. Mexico, Colombia were a bit slower, but I think we see the momentum accelerating. And we're definitely trying to play a very active role on that future to come faster because in a world where finance is digital, in a world of digital payments, in a world of open finance where there is less inertia from consumers to move when consumers really own their data and they can transpose it to our institutions.

冰球正朝著經濟全面數位化的方向前進。這是全球值得信賴的趨勢之一。巴西的速度很快。墨西哥、哥倫比亞的速度稍慢一些，但我認為我們看到了加速的勢頭。我們肯定會努力在這個未來更快實現中發揮非常積極的作用，因為在一個金融數位化的世界裡，在一個數位支付的世界裡，在一個開放金融的世界裡，消費者在行動時的慣性較小。消費者真正擁有自己的數據，他們可以將其轉移給我們的機構。

The consumer really wins and competition becomes very powerful because the -- really the possibility to see interest rate coming down, banking costs come down, inclusion goes up. So we are -- we think that's where the puck is going in Mexico. We think it's accelerating, and we are definitely an active part of trying to push that forward.

消費者真正獲勝，競爭變得非常強大，因為利率確實有可能下降，銀行成本下降，包容性上升。所以我們——我們認為這就是冰球在墨西哥的發展方向。我們認為它正在加速發展，我們絕對是努力推動這一進程的積極參與者。

And our next question comes from the line of Pedro Leduc at Itau.

我們的下一個問題來自 Itau 的 Pedro Leduc。

Congrats on the results. I would like to get your help a little bit more on the credit quality or provision expense side. We know this quarter, it looked down, right, from $630 million to $590 million, as you mentioned there, the recovery effects. But I would like to get your help a little bit on how much these recovery effects were and get your sense on the underlying credit trends that you're seeing? You did mention that gross margin should continue at this level, at least not for the next quarters. So just getting your sense there on how you're feeling on the credit quality side, making you choose where to grow and when.

祝賀結果。我希望在信貸品質或撥備費用方面得到您的更多幫助。我們知道這個季度，它從 6.3 億美元下降到了 5.9 億美元，正如您所提到的，復甦效果。但我想請您幫忙了解這些復甦的影響有多大，並了解您所看到的潛在信貸趨勢？您確實提到毛利率應該繼續保持在這個水平，至少在接下來的幾個季度不會。因此，只需了解您對信用品質方面的感受，即可選擇在何處以及何時發展。

Pedro, so on the credit loss allowance expense itself. As like what I mentioned in our earlier remarks, the $590-or-so million number was impacted favorably by recoveries in the order of about $60 million to $70 million in the quarter, right? So you can do the math of what would have happened without that effect. It would have been around $650 million, $660 million. So it would have increased by an amount that's kind of similar in magnitude to the increase from Q3 to Q4, right? And most of that increase is from growth of the credit book.

佩德羅，關於信用損失準備金費用本身。正如我在之前的評論中提到的那樣，本季度約 6000 萬至 7000 萬美元的復甦對 5900 萬美元左右的數字產生了有利影響，對吧？所以你可以計算一下如果沒有這種影響會發生什麼事。大約是 6.5 億美元、6.6 億美元。因此，它的增加量與從第三季度到第四季度的增加量類似，對嗎？其中大部分成長來自信用帳簿的成長。

Now from a going forward standpoint, I expect maybe a little bit of a residual impact of additional recoveries in Q1, as Lago mentioned a few minutes ago, but I don't think it will be the same order of magnitude. So I expect the trend to kind of resume looking like prior quarters as we continue to expand the credit book. Some of that expansion, as I said last quarter and earlier today, some of that expansion and growth will come from going further down the risk spectrum. So it might cause higher NPLs, but we think it'll be -- and therefore, higher provisions. But I think it will be more than paid for in the form of higher returns and robust resilience. So that's generally how I would think about it.

現在，從未來的角度來看，正如拉戈幾分鐘前提到的那樣，我預計第一季的額外復甦可能會產生一些殘餘影響，但我認為不會達到相同的數量級。因此，我預計隨著我們繼續擴大信貸帳簿，這一趨勢將恢復到與前幾季相同的水平。正如我上個季度和今天早些時候所說，部分擴張和成長將來自進一步降低風險範圍。因此，這可能會導致不良貸款增加，但我們認為，撥備金將會增加。但我認為，更高的回報和強勁的韌性將帶來豐厚的回報。這就是我通常的想法。

That's great. If I may with a second and follow up on this. The -- of course, your NII post cost of risk and making up for it. You mentioned you hit 23% ROE this quarter, of course, reinvesting into growth. And I know it's hard to pick a part which business is doing what. But if you could help us maybe with a broad range on how much you're reinvesting at this point from this ROE figure? And if this ratio is going to grow or be maintained or fall a little bit, given the others funding it into 2024?

那太棒了。請容許我再跟進。當然，您的 NII 會承擔風險成本並對其進行彌補。您提到本季 ROE 達到 23%，當然，這是為了成長而進行的再投資。我知道很難選擇哪個業務部門在做什麼。但是，您是否可以幫助我們了解您目前根據淨資產收益率數據進行再投資的金額？考慮到其他資金到 2024 年，這個比率是否會成長、維持或略有下降？

Pedro, I believe the best way to address your question is if you take a look at our cost structure in general, about 55% to 60% of our cost structure is largely payroll related. As David mentioned in his opening remarks, about 40% of our operational headcount is still in growth or moonshot business that are business that are not yet generating revenues at full capacity or not generating revenues at all. So this just gives you a sense of the allocation of our resources to business that are not considered to be our core profit-generating business. If we were to optimize for the long term.

Pedro，我認為解決您的問題的最佳方法是，如果您總體上看我們的成本結構，我們的成本結構中大約 55% 到 60% 很大程度上與工資相關。正如 David 在開場白中提到的，我們大約 40% 的營運人員仍在成長或登月業務中，這些業務尚未滿載產生收入或根本不產生收入。因此，這只是讓您了解我們的資源分配到不被視為我們核心獲利業務的業務。如果我們要進行長期優化。

For the short term, we would be able to post materially better results, but that's not the case. We are in the planting season, we are not in the harvesting season. So we do expect in the long term that ROEs in both Brazil and on a consolidated basis can expand further, and we are investing heavily for that. And by investing, we are investing primarily on human resources and technology.

從短期來看，我們將能夠取得實質上更好的結果，但事實並非如此。我們正處於播種的季節，我們還沒有處在收穫的季節。因此，從長遠來看，我們確實預期巴西的淨資產收益率和綜合淨資產收益率將進一步擴大，我們正在為此進行大量投資。透過投資，我們主要投資於人力資源和技術。

And our next question comes from the line of Rafael Frade from Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Rafael Frade。

So my question is related to your capital position. You mentioned in the previous quarter that your capital position was around $4.5 billion. But in this quarter, it was $5.4 billion. So a big jump quarter-over-quarter, higher than earnings. So I'd like to understand if there's an adjustment here that explains this big increase in the capital position?

所以我的問題與你的資本狀況有關。您在上一季提到您的資本部位約為 45 億美元。但本季這一數字為 54 億美元。因此，季度環比大幅躍升，高於收益。所以我想了解這裡是否有調整可以解釋資本部位的大幅增加？

Frade, thanks for your questions. No, I think the best way for me to address your question is to draw your attention to our financial statements, more specifically to explanatory note #32, in which we basically break down our capital positions, regulatory capital positions for Brazil, Mexico, which are our 2 regulated entities. And I think in the in the slides, what you will see is that the first time we are basically adding both Brazil and Mexico, and there, you may see a slight increase in the numbers. But by and large, with the capital that we have allocated to our geos that are regulated, Brazil and Mexico.

弗萊德，謝謝你的提問。不，我認為解決您問題的最佳方式是提請您注意我們的財務報表，更具體地說是解釋性說明#32，其中我們基本上細分了我們的資本頭寸、巴西、墨西哥的監管資本頭寸，其中是我們的 2 個受監管實體。我認為在幻燈片中，您會看到我們第一次基本上添加了巴西和墨西哥，在那裡，您可能會看到數字略有增加。但總的來說，我們已將資金分配給受監管的地理區域，即巴西和墨西哥。

We have about 2x the minimum capital that are required in these geos. And if above and beyond, you also take into account the $2.4 billion of excess capital that we have at the holding company, we would get to nearly 3x the minimum regulatory capital. So we believe we are fairly comfortably capitalized. We don't foresee any need to tap the equity capital markets in the near future for our 5-year plan nor do we foresee the need to make any material capitalization in Brazil in the foreseeable future. Brazil is expected to generate enough earnings to sustain the growth of the business going forward.

我們擁有這些地區所需最低資本的大約兩倍。如果除此之外，您還考慮到我們在控股公司擁有的 24 億美元超額資本，我們將達到最低監管資本的近 3 倍。因此，我們相信我們的資本相當充足。我們預計我們的五年計畫在不久的將來不需要利用股權資本市場，也不需要在可預見的未來在巴西進行任何實質資本化。巴西預計將產生足夠的收入來維持未來業務的成長。

And our next question comes from the line of Yuri Fernandes from JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的尤里·費爾南德斯。

I have a follow-up on Mexico. And on your deposit franchise, it's pretty impressive, $1 billion in Mexico. And again, it has been growing very fast since November. But David, I think he addressed at some point, like the wholesale cost and how the credit cards can make like this higher 50% yield is still profitable at some sense. But my question is that your deposits are now growing much faster than loans, right? We just have the regulatory data for November. And I think you had around $800 million of loans in Mexico. So now you have more deposits and loans. That basically implies that you kind of have a negative spread here, right? You're paying 15% actually, I think, 16%, right, because 15% is net of taxes.

我有關於墨西哥的後續行動。在你們的存款特許經營權方面，這是相當令人印象深刻的，在墨西哥有 10 億美元。而且，自 11 月以來，它的成長速度非常快。但是大衛，我認為他在某個時候談到了批發成本以及信用卡如何能夠獲得更高的 50% 收益率，在某種意義上仍然是有利可圖的。但我的問題是，現在你們的存款成長速度比貸款快得多，對嗎？我們只有 11 月的監管數據。我認為你們在墨西哥有大約 8 億美元的貸款。所以現在你有更多的存款和貸款。這基本上意味著你在這裡有負價差，對吧？我想，你實際上支付了 15%，16%，對吧，因為 15% 是稅後的淨額。

So my point is about Mexican losses, right? Maybe I think Lago already addressed this, but I don't know. I think maybe it's the right strategy. But maybe we could see higher losses from Mexico in '24 or '25. So I would like you to address this if you keep the 15% yield even if you don't have the same counterpart in loans, basically buying a security from the government around 11.25%. And then I can do a follow-up on this question.

所以我的觀點是關於墨西哥的損失，對吧？也許我認為拉戈已經解決了這個問題，但我不知道。我認為也許這是正確的策略。但也許我們可能會在 24 年或 25 年看到墨西哥的損失更大。所以我希望你能解決這個問題，如果你保持 15% 的收益率，即使你沒有相同的貸款，基本上是從政府購買 11.25% 左右的證券。然後我就可以對這個問題進行跟進。

No, great. No, this is the right question. So we absolutely see this as a way to accelerate credit as well. We always say that your right leg kind of go faster than your left leg. We started effectively only with the right leg just with credit when we launch deposits, we have a left leg. Now we have the challenge of coordinating ourselves. And it's a tough problem because you are not able to ex-ante price for perfection, the yield. In an ideal world, you would have perfect information and you have the absolute pricing so that it would build the product that you want. It optimizes -- it's an NPV maximization problem in ideal world you can get to that price immediately.

不，太好了。不，這是正確的問題。因此，我們絕對認為這也是加速信貸的一種方式。我們總是說你的右腿比左腿快。當我們啟動存款時，我們僅從右腿開始有效，只有信貸，我們有左腿。現在我們面臨著協調自己的挑戰。這是一個棘手的問題，因為你無法預先確定完美的價格和產量。在理想的世界中，您將擁有完美的資訊並且擁有絕對的定價，以便它可以建立您想要的產品。它進行了優化——在理想的世界中，這是一個 NPV 最大化問題，您可以立即達到該價格。

We prefer to start high because it's important to create the right impression for consumers, and there tends to be an advantage when you are positioned as the clear category king. That's what we are striving for in Mexico. Once you have that position versus consumers and you start getting significant percentage of the market, then a lot of the flywheels really start turning. And so in that sense, you're right that suddenly deposits are growing faster than credit. But as I said, now we'll start seeing the second order benefit. We're seeing higher income Mexicans coming in, which allows us to increase credit card acceptance rate for our customers.

我們更喜歡從高起點開始，因為給消費者留下正確的印像很重要，而且當你被定位為明確的品類之王時，往往會具有優勢。這就是我們在墨西哥努力的目標。一旦你在消費者面前佔據了主導地位，並且開始獲得相當大的市場份額，那麼很多飛輪就真正開始轉動。因此，從這個意義上說，你說的存款成長突然快於信貸的說法是對的。但正如我所說，現在我們將開始看到第二階效益。我們看到收入較高的墨西哥人湧入，這使我們能夠提高客戶的信用卡接受率。

It allows us to increase limits, which increases IBB for credit cards. It brings more customers in net-net, we have to spend less in marketing. And so overall, I think we are -- this is a big investment for us, as I said. We are looking at this investment decision very carefully, optimizing for the long term, as I said. But it will be a continuous recalibration of this exercise and as we go over the next few months and really over the year, we'll be trading off the different sizes of that bet. But so far, it's clearly paying off really quickly because of the higher credit card customers, the differentiated income profile, the higher acceptance rate, the higher credit limits, increase IBB. We are operating in a -- with a product in Mexico that we think is more profitable than Brazil, the credit card per se. It has a higher return on equity so far. So there's plenty of economics to be paying right now a bit higher on the funding cost.

它允許我們增加限額，從而增加信用卡的 IBB。它為網路帶來了更多的客戶，我們在行銷上的支出就減少了。總的來說，我認為，正如我所說，這對我們來說是一項巨大的投資。正如我所說，我們正在非常仔細地考慮這項投資決策，並針對長期目標進行最佳化。但這將是對這項工作的不斷重新調整，隨著我們在接下來的幾個月甚至一年中的進行，我們將權衡該賭注的不同規模。但到目前為止，由於信用卡客戶數量增加、收入狀況差異化、接受率更高、信用額度更高、IBB 增加，它的回報顯然很快。我們在墨西哥經營產品，我們認為信用卡本身比巴西更有利可圖。迄今為止，其股本回報率較高。因此，現在有許多經濟因素需要支付更高的融資成本。

No. Thank you, David. I was in Mexico last week and it's impressive the word-of-mouth of this deposit strategy. If I may, just a quick one here on the eligible unsecured credit customers for you. I think you have a slide on this, 15.5 million, one of the last slides of the presentation. I was checking the third quarter, and you had like around 18 million eligible unsecured credit customers in the previous quarter. So it basically implies that this number was down 3 million. So just checking if you are getting a little bit more risk averse on unsecured credit lending in Brazil or I don't know, anywhere else? Or if it's just a different accounting on this number because it was down again like from 18.1 million to 15.5 million eligible customers?

不，謝謝你，大衛。上週我在墨西哥，這種存款策略的口碑令人印象深刻。如果可以的話，請為您快速介紹一下符合資格的無擔保信貸客戶。我想你有一張關於這個的幻燈片，1550 萬，這是簡報的最後一張幻燈片。我檢查了第三季度，上一季大約有 1800 萬合格無擔保信貸客戶。所以這基本上意味著這個數字減少了 300 萬。因此，只需檢查您是否對巴西或其他地方的無擔保信貸貸款有更多的風險規避？或者是否只是對這個數字進行了不同的核算，因為合格客戶數量再次下降，從 1810 萬減少到 1550 萬？

No, Yuri, I think we are certainly not getting no less optimistic with the expansion of unsecured personal loans. And it's just a different accounting of the eligibility of monthly accounting, monthly eligible customers. But in general, we are super pleased with the potential that we have in unsecured personal loans. If you take a look at the total unsecured personal market in Brazil, it's the second largest consumer asset class in the country after only payroll loans. And our customers already account for approximately 51% of this pool. We have less than 7%, 8% of this market.

不，尤里，我認為我們對無擔保個人貸款的擴張當然也同樣樂觀。而這只是每月核算、每月合格客戶資格的核算不同而已。但總的來說，我們對無擔保個人貸款的潛力非常滿意。如果你看一下巴西的無擔保個人市場總量，你會發現它是全國僅次於薪資貸款的第二大消費資產類別。我們的客戶已經約佔這個池子的 51%。我們這個市場的市佔率還不到7%、8%。

So we will continue to grow and expand originations there threefold: number one, increasing the eligibility of personal loans to more customers; number two, progressively increasing the average ticket size, almost we're assembling the slow growth that we have in credit cards. And number 3 is to progressively increase also the duration. Our average duration today is about 1/3 of the average duration of the market. So by flexing those 3 levers, we believe we will continue to increase originations of unsecured personal loans going forward.

因此，我們將繼續三方面發展和擴大那裡的業務：第一，提高向更多客戶提供個人貸款的資格；第二，逐漸增加平均票據金額，幾乎我們正在整合信用卡的緩慢成長。第三點是逐漸增加持續時間。我們今天的平均久期大約是市場平均久期的1/3。因此，透過運用這三個槓桿，我們相信我們將繼續增加未來無擔保個人貸款的發放。

As we already surpassed 90 minutes of the call, we are now concluding today's call. So on behalf of Nu Holdings and of our Investor Relations team, I want to thank you very much for your time and participation in our earnings call today. We are very excited with opportunities for the year of 2024 and to continue strengthening our position in Brazil, Mexico and Colombia. Over the coming days, we will be following up with the questions received by our platform and with those that were not able to ask questions tonight. So please do not hesitate to reach out to our team if you have any further questions.

由於通話時間已超過 90 分鐘，我們現在結束今天的通話。因此，我謹代表 Nu Holdings 和我們的投資者關係團隊，非常感謝您抽出時間參加我們今天的財報電話會議。我們對 2024 年的機會感到非常興奮，並繼續加強我們在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的地位。在接下來的幾天裡，我們將跟進我們平台收到的問題以及今晚無法提問的問題。因此，如果您有任何其他問題，請隨時聯繫我們的團隊。

Thank you, and have a good night.

謝謝你，祝你有個美好的夜晚。