Nu Holdings Ltd (NU) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nu Holdings conference call to discuss the results for the first quarter of 2023. A slide presentation is accompanying today's webcast, which is available in Nu's Investors Relations website, www.investors.nu in English and www.investidores.nu in Portuguese. This conference is being recorded, and the replay can also be accessed on the company's IR website.

女士們先生們，下午好。歡迎參加 Nu Holdings 電話會議，討論 2023 年第一季度的業績。今天的網絡廣播附有幻燈片演示，可在 Nu 的投資者關係網站 www.investors.nu 的英文版和 www.investidores.nu 的葡萄牙語版中查看。本次會議正在錄製中，重播也可以在公司的 IR 網站上訪問。

This call is also available in Portuguese. (Operator Instructions) (foreign language) (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer at Nu Holdings. Mr. Friedemann, you may proceed.

此電話也提供葡萄牙語版本。 （操作員說明）（外語）（操作員說明）我現在想把電話轉給 Nu Holdings 的投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。 Friedemann 先生，您可以繼續。

Thank you very much, operator, and thank you all for joining our earnings call today. If you have not seen our earnings release, a copy is posted in the Results Center section of our Investor Relations website. With me on today's call are David Velez, our Founder, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman; Youssef Lahrech, our President and Chief Operating Officer; and Guilherme Lago, our Chief Financial Officer. Additionally, Jag Duggal, our Chief Product Officer, will join us for the Q&A session of the call.

非常感謝接線員，也感謝大家今天參加我們的財報電話會議。如果您還沒有看到我們的收益發布，我們的投資者關係網站的結果中心部分會發布一份副本。和我一起參加今天電話會議的有我們的創始人、首席執行官兼董事長大衛·貝萊斯 (David Velez)；我們的總裁兼首席運營官 Youssef Lahrech；和我們的首席財務官 Guilherme Lago。此外，我們的首席產品官 Jag Duggal 將加入我們的電話問答環節。

Throughout this conference call, we will be presenting non-IFRS financial information, including adjusted net income. These are important financial measures for the company but are not financial measures as defined by IFRS. Reconciliations of the company's non-IFRS financial information to the IFRS financial information are available in our earnings press release.

在整個電話會議中，我們將提供非 IFRS 財務信息，包括調整後的淨收入。這些是公司的重要財務指標，但不是 IFRS 定義的財務指標。公司的非 IFRS 財務信息與 IFRS 財務信息的調節可在我們的收益新聞稿中找到。

Unless noted otherwise, all growth rates are on a year-over-year FX neutral basis. I would also like to remind everyone that today's discussion might include forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance, and therefore, you should not put undue reliance on them. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties and could cause actual results to differ materially from the company's expectations.

除非另有說明，否則所有增長率均基於與去年同期相比的外匯中性基礎。我還想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述不是對未來業績的保證，因此您不應過分依賴它們。這些陳述受眾多風險和不確定因素的影響，並可能導致實際結果與公司的預期存在重大差異。

Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in the company's earnings press release. Today, our founder, Chairman and CEO, David Velez, will discuss the main highlights of our first quarter 2023 results and provide an overview of our Brazilian operations. Subsequently, Guilherme Lago, our CFO; and Youssef Lahrech, our President and COO, will take you through our financial and operating performance for the quarter, after which time we will be happy to take your questions. Now I would like to turn the call over to David. David, please go ahead.

請參閱公司財報新聞稿中披露的前瞻性陳述。今天，我們的創始人、董事長兼首席執行官 David Velez 將討論我們 2023 年第一季度業績的主要亮點，並概述我們的巴西業務。隨後，我們的首席財務官 Guilherme Lago；我們的總裁兼首席運營官 Youssef Lahrech 將向您介紹本季度的財務和運營業績，之後我們將很樂意回答您的問題。現在我想把電話轉給大衛。大衛，請繼續。

Thank you, Jorg. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for being with us today. Once again, in a quarter marked by general concerns about economic activity and asset quality in the markets we operate, the soundness of effectively all our financial indicators remained very strong, attesting to the resilience of our business model and the execution of our team.

謝謝你，約爾格。大家晚上好，感謝你們今天和我們在一起。再一次，在一個普遍關注我們經營的市場的經濟活動和資產質量的季度中，我們所有財務指標的穩健性仍然非常強勁，證明了我們商業模式的彈性和我們團隊的執行力。

So I will show in the next few slides, we continue to deliver a rare combination of strong growth and increasing profitability through the ups and downs of our markets. In the first quarter, our numbers continue to demonstrate the compounded effect of our platform's high growth, combined with increasing profitability provided by our business model. Revenues surpassed $1.6 billion, expanding 87% year-over-year. Our gross profit reached $651 million, 124% year-over-year increase, and our gross margin again surpassed the 40% threshold this quarter, reaching the highest level since 2021.

因此，我將在接下來的幾張幻燈片中展示，我們將繼續通過我們市場的起伏來實現強勁增長和盈利能力增加的罕見組合。在第一季度，我們的數字繼續證明了我們平台的高增長以及我們的商業模式提供的盈利能力不斷提高的複合效應。收入超過 16 億美元，同比增長 87%。我們的毛利潤達到 6.51 億美元，同比增長 124%，本季度我們的毛利率再次突破 40% 的門檻，達到 2021 年以來的最高水平。

This continued revenue growth with gross margin expansion enabled a significant increase in net income, reaching $141.8 million or 145% quarter-over-quarter growth rate versus last quarter's DSA adjusted net income. Adjusted net income reached $182.4 million, an increase of 60% quarter-over-quarter. Meanwhile, we also continue to expand our customer base at a strong clip, ending the quarter with 79.1 million clients.

這種持續的收入增長以及毛利率的擴張使淨收入顯著增加，達到 1.418 億美元，與上一季度 DSA 調整後的淨收入相比，環比增長率達到 145%。調整後的淨收入達到 1.824 億美元，環比增長 60%。與此同時，我們還繼續快速擴大客戶群，本季度末客戶數量達到 7910 萬。

Net adds were very strong in Brazil, where we welcomed 4.4 million customers during the quarter. Our activity levels remain robust at 82%, even as we add more and more customers, demonstrating the intense engagement capacity of our platform. This slide offers a high-level overview of our recent financial performance trends, highlighting our ability to increase revenue while expanding profits. Over the past 2 years, Nu was able to double the number of customers from 37 million in early 2021 to more than 79 million at the end of the first quarter of 2023 and already surpassed 80 million customers by April.

巴西的淨增加量非常強勁，本季度我們迎來了 440 萬客戶。即使我們增加了越來越多的客戶，我們的活動水平仍保持在 82% 的強勁水平，這表明我們平台的強大參與能力。這張幻燈片提供了我們近期財務業績趨勢的高級概述，突出了我們在增加收入的同時擴大利潤的能力。在過去的兩年裡，Nu 的客戶數量從 2021 年初的 3700 萬翻了一番，到 2023 年第一季度末超過 7900 萬，到 4 月已經超過 8000 萬客戶。

The strong growth of our customer base associated with the rising cross-sell and upsell implied by the high engagement of our platform resulted in our quarterly revenues multiplying by almost 7x in only 2 years, a triple-digit revenue CAGR over this period. The next chart of this slide illustrates our resilient underwriting capabilities. Quarterly gross profit, defined by total revenues deducted by funding costs, transactional expenses and credit loss allowances, increased by more than 5x in the period, with gross profit margins expanding accordingly, even though credit delinquency has increased in the market in which we operate over the past 12 months.

我們的客戶群的強勁增長與我們平台的高度參與所暗示的交叉銷售和追加銷售的增加相關，導致我們的季度收入在短短 2 年內增長了近 7 倍，在此期間收入複合年增長率達到三位數。本幻燈片的下一張圖表說明了我們的彈性承保能力。季度毛利潤（定義為總收入減去融資成本、交易費用和信用損失準備金）在此期間增長了 5 倍以上，毛利率相應擴大，儘管我們經營所在市場的信貸拖欠率有所增加過去 12 個月。

Lastly, all of the aforementioned drivers, combined with the strong operating leverage of our platform and the initial maturation of our early products in Brazil, resulted in a significant acceleration of net income growth, particularly over the past 3 quarters, as you can appreciate in the chart on the right. This compounded effect should continue to be observed over the coming periods, providing a valuable combination of growth with increasing profitability in our platform.

最後，上述所有驅動因素，再加上我們平台強大的運營槓桿和我們在巴西的早期產品的初步成熟，導致淨收入增長顯著加速，尤其是在過去 3 個季度，您可以在右邊的圖表。在未來一段時間內，這種複合效應應該會繼續被觀察到，為我們的平台提供增長和盈利能力增加的有價值的組合。

However, I want to dig a bit deeper into some core questions that we get from investors around growth potential and eventual steady-state profitability of the platform. In Brazil, where we have been operating for 9 years, our clients already account for a remarkable 46% of the total adult population of the country. It's staggering and at the same time, gratifying to think that almost 1 in 2 Brazilians that own a smartphone is a Nubank customer.

然而，我想更深入地探討一些我們從投資者那裡得到的關於平台增長潛力和最終穩態盈利能力的核心問題。在我們經營了 9 年的巴西，我們的客戶已經占到該國成年人口總數的 46%，這一數字令人矚目。想到幾乎每 2 名擁有智能手機的巴西人中就有 1 名是 Nubank 的客戶，這令人震驚，同時也令人欣慰。

In Mexico and Colombia, where we have been for 3 years or less, our share of the total population is significantly lower, representing a tremendous opportunity for growth as we expand our product offering and create lasting relationships with our clients. But so far, the experience we're having in Mexico and in Colombia is more positive than what we saw in Brazil in the first few years. With 3 years of operations in Brazil, we had 1.2 million customers, representing a penetration of less than 1% of the adult population of the country at that time, lower than what we now have in Mexico and Colombia.

在墨西哥和哥倫比亞，我們已經進入 3 年或更短時間，我們在總人口中所佔的比例明顯較低，隨著我們擴大產品供應並與客戶建立持久關係，這代表著巨大的增長機會。但到目前為止，我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的經歷比我們最初幾年在巴西看到的更為積極。在巴西運營 3 年，我們擁有 120 萬客戶，代表當時該國成年人口的滲透率不到 1%，低於我們現在在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的滲透率。

So far in Mexico and Colombia are beating Brazil at effectively all metrics from customer growth to early monetization and plans for these countries are ahead of expectations. While our customer penetration in Brazil is significant, when we delve into the market share we actually own in each profit pool, it is clear that we still have substantial room to expand our presence. The first important insight from the chart on this slide is that 2/3 of all the profits of financial services in our 3 markets come from credit-related products.

到目前為止，墨西哥和哥倫比亞在從客戶增長到早期貨幣化的所有指標上都有效地擊敗了巴西，並且這些國家/地區的計劃超出了預期。雖然我們在巴西的客戶滲透率很高，但當我們深入研究我們在每個利潤池中實際擁有的市場份額時，很明顯我們仍有很大的空間來擴大我們的影響力。這張幻燈片圖表的第一個重要見解是，我們 3 個市場中 2/3 的金融服務利潤來自信貸相關產品。

This fact confirms that it's virtually impossible to build a large financial services business in the region without having credit underwriting as a core capability. It is also one of the reasons we decided to start Nu with a credit-first approach in 2013 as starting with payments and then pivoting to credit generally carries significant execution risk. Over the past 4 years, we have started to establish new toeholds in every additional credit segment. Today, our most mature products is credit cards, where we have only 11% market share in purchase volume across our 3 geos.

這一事實證實，如果不將信用承銷作為核心能力，就幾乎不可能在該地區建立大型金融服務企業。這也是我們決定在 2013 年以信用優先的方式啟動 Nu 的原因之一，因為從支付開始然後轉向信用通常會帶來重大的執行風險。在過去的 4 年裡，我們已經開始在每一個額外的信貸領域建立新的立足點。今天，我們最成熟的產品是信用卡，我們在 3 個地區的購買量中僅佔 11% 的市場份額。

We have resumed growth in our unsecured personal lending product in Brazil and expect it to be an important driver of revenue and earnings growth. Last quarter, we also launched, still in beta, our first secured lending product, what in Brazil is known as Consignado. We are very excited about the feedback we're receiving from early customers and expect to see meaningful acceleration in this segment over the next 4 to 8 quarters.

我們在巴西的無擔保個人貸款產品已恢復增長，預計它將成為收入和盈利增長的重要推動力。上個季度，我們還推出了我們的第一個擔保貸款產品，仍處於測試階段，在巴西被稱為 Consignado。我們對從早期客戶那裡收到的反饋感到非常興奮，並期望在接下來的 4 到 8 個季度內看到這一領域的顯著加速。

In addition to building our core capability of credit in Brazil, we have also launched innovative products and investments, insurance and marketplace. Since we already have one of the largest fully digital consumer platforms in Brazil, we're able to bring new customers to these verticals at virtually 0 additional acquisition cost and serve them at an extremely efficient cost to serve. This not only allows us to gain market share but also increases the size of the addressable market as we bring in consumers that have been traditionally underserved by incumbents.

除了在巴西建立核心信貸能力外，我們還推出了創新產品和投資、保險和市場。由於我們已經擁有巴西最大的全數字消費者平台之一，我們能夠以幾乎 0 的額外購置成本將新客戶帶到這些垂直領域，並以極其高效的服務成本為他們提供服務。這不僅使我們能夠獲得市場份額，而且還增加了潛在市場的規模，因為我們吸引了傳統上一直未得到現有企業服務的消費者。

We're pursuing a similar road map in Mexico and in Colombia over the next few years, supported by internally developed technology platforms, providing us both speed and quality. Beyond the significant growth runway we have had, the clear trend of the last 9 quarters demonstrates the significant operating leverage of the platform and its potential to generate profits. Being the lowest cost manufacturer in an industry is a very important strategic position, and we believe we are reaching that point in Brazil.

未來幾年，在內部開發的技術平台的支持下，我們將在墨西哥和哥倫比亞尋求類似的路線圖，為我們提供速度和質量。除了我們擁有的顯著增長跑道之外，過去 9 個季度的明顯趨勢表明該平台的重要運營槓桿及其產生利潤的潛力。成為行業中成本最低的製造商是一個非常重要的戰略地位，我們相信我們正在巴西達到這一點。

The charts on this slide illustrate this fact for our business in Brazil, our most mature market. On the left, we show the efficiency ratio for our Brazilian unit over time. In the short time we've been operating in the country, at least compared to incumbents, we have been able to deliver best-in-class efficiency ratios with our cost-to-income ratio running now at mid-30% level.

這張幻燈片上的圖表說明了我們在巴西這個我們最成熟的市場的業務的事實。在左側，我們顯示了巴西單位隨時間變化的效率比。在我們在該國開展業務的短時間內，至少與現有企業相比，我們已經能夠提供一流的效率比，我們的成本收入比目前處於 30% 左右的水平。

Meanwhile, the chart on the right provides evidence of the operating leverage of our platform or monthly ARPAC, or average revenue per active customer, expanded by 2.5x between Q1 '21 and Q1 '23, whereas our monthly cost to serve remained virtually unchanged. Impressive enough, but this is only the start of the process. The monthly ARPAC of our mature cohort is already upwards of $20, more than twice our current overall average and the monthly ARPAC for incumbents is above $40.

同時，右邊的圖表提供了我們平台的運營槓桿或每月 ARPAC，或每個活躍客戶的平均收入，在 21 年第一季度和 23 年第一季度之間擴大了 2.5 倍，而我們的每月服務成本幾乎保持不變。足夠令人印象深刻，但這只是該過程的開始。我們成熟人群的每月 ARPAC 已經超過 20 美元，是我們目前總體平均水平的兩倍多，而現任者的每月 ARPAC 超過 40 美元。

As we grow, we're sharing the profit pools we are targeting and closed the gap in ARPAC to our peers, all while maintaining a monthly cost to serve below $1 per customer, we believe our efficiency ratio will set new records and our profitability will continue to increase. In talking about returns, I'd like to highlight the evolution of the key financial metrics we presented last quarter for both our holding company and our Brazilian operations. The momentum continued into the first quarter, as you can see by the numbers on this slide.

隨著我們的成長，我們正在分享我們的目標利潤池並縮小 ARPAC 與同行的差距，同時保持每月服務成本低於每位客戶 1 美元，我們相信我們的效率比將創下新紀錄，我們的盈利能力將繼續增加。在談到回報時，我想強調一下我們上個季度為我們的控股公司和巴西業務提供的關鍵財務指標的演變。這種勢頭一直持續到第一季度，正如您在這張幻燈片上的數字所看到的那樣。

As our Brazilian operations mature, positive results continue to compound and profitability is accelerating. Our adjusted net income in Brazil reached an impressive $200 million in the first quarter, representing an adjusted ROE of 43%. We achieved these results while maintaining a regulatory capital ratio of 18.7%, a cushion of over 80% on top of the minimum required of 10.5%.

隨著我們巴西業務的成熟，積極的結果繼續複合，盈利能力正在加速。我們在巴西的調整後淨收入在第一季度達到了令人印象深刻的 2 億美元，調整後淨資產收益率為 43%。我們取得了這些成果，同時保持了 18.7% 的監管資本比率，在 10.5% 的最低要求之上提供了超過 80% 的緩衝。

As over 3 geos scale, and we enjoy the benefits of operating leverage that is entering to our model, our holding companies starting to convert its potential into profits. Nu Holdings adjusted net income of $182.4 million in the first quarter implies an adjusted return on equity of 14%. While our current levels of profitability are already on par with many traditional incumbent banks in the Latin American region, it's important to note that our excess cash of over $2 billion means that we're extremely well capitalized.

隨著超過 3 個地理區域的規模，我們享受到進入我們模型的經營槓桿的好處，我們的控股公司開始將其潛力轉化為利潤。 Nu Holdings 第一季度調整後的淨收入為 1.824 億美元，意味著調整後的股本回報率為 14%。雖然我們目前的盈利水平已經與拉丁美洲地區的許多傳統老牌銀行相當，但值得注意的是，我們超過 20 億美元的超額現金意味著我們的資本非常充足。

Also important to remember that we're showing this level of profitability even while continuing to invest significantly in future products and while growing revenues by 87% year-over-year, a revenue growth rate that few financial institutions at scale are able to show. As seen, we're very excited with the momentum of the business. And now I would like to pass it over to my partner and CFO, Guilherme Lago, to dig in deeper into the numbers. Go ahead, Lago.

同樣重要的是要記住，即使在繼續對未來產品進行大量投資並且收入同比增長 87% 的同時，我們也在展示這種盈利水平，這是很少有規模的金融機構能夠展示的收入增長率。正如所見，我們對業務的發展勢頭感到非常興奮。現在我想將其轉交給我的合作夥伴兼首席財務官 Guilherme Lago，以深入挖掘這些數字。來吧，拉戈。

Thanks, David. Good evening, everyone. As David mentioned, we delivered another quarter of strong operating and financial KPIs. We did so by leveraging the same simple, powerful value-generating strategy that we have now employed for a few years. This strategy can be summarized by 3 guiding principles: First, continuing to grow our customer base in the markets in which we operate and quickly converting new customers into active ones; second, expanding average revenue per active customer, or ARPAC, through both cross-selling and upselling; and third, delivering growth while maintaining one of the lowest operating costs in the industry.

謝謝，大衛。各位晚上好。正如大衛所提到的，我們又交付了四分之一的強勁運營和財務 KPI。為此，我們利用了幾年來一直採用的簡單、強大的價值生成策略。這一戰略可以概括為 3 條指導原則：第一，繼續擴大我們經營所在市場的客戶群，並迅速將新客戶轉化為活躍客戶；其次，通過交叉銷售和追加銷售擴大每位活躍客戶的平均收入 (ARPAC)；第三，在實現增長的同時保持業內最低的運營成本之一。

Much like in prior periods, our first quarter results showcase how we continue to execute against each one of these pillars. Let's dive deeper. During the first quarter, our customer base increased at a solid pace. We added 4.5 million customers for a total of 79.1 million, a 33% increase year-over-year. In Brazil, our pace for monthly net adds continued at almost 1.5 million customers. The vast majority of which still come from referrals, which means lower acquisition costs and faster activation.

與前幾個時期非常相似，我們的第一季度業績展示了我們如何繼續執行這些支柱中的每一個。讓我們深入探討。在第一季度，我們的客戶群穩步增長。我們增加了 450 萬客戶，總數達到 7910 萬，同比增長 33%。在巴西，我們每月淨增加客戶的速度繼續保持在近 150 萬。其中絕大多數仍然來自推薦，這意味著更低的獲取成本和更快的激活。

Our client base in Mexico and Colombia also evolved positively and will likely accelerate even further, once we are able to have our checking accounts up and running in both countries. This has already happened in Mexico, where we have just crossed the level of 500,000 checking accounts opened in less than a week after our official launch of Cuenta Nu.

我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的客戶群也在積極發展，一旦我們能夠在這兩個國家開設並運營我們的支票賬戶，我們的客戶群可能會進一步加速發展。這已經在墨西哥發生了，在我們正式推出 Cuenta Nu 不到一周的時間裡，我們剛剛突破了 500,000 個支票賬戶的水平。

Once we add customers, our goal is to activate and have them engage with our platforms and love us fanatically. On this base, the first quarter was also a success. Our monthly activity rate increased to 82.1%, up from 78.0% a year ago, the ninth consecutive quarter increase. We are seeing positive and increasing momentum in activity in all of our 3 markets. The second pillar in our strategy is revenue expansion. The first chart is our primary banking relationship chart. It represents the percentage of our active customer who transfer to us every month more than 50% of their post-tax income.

添加客戶後，我們的目標是激活並讓他們參與我們的平台並狂熱地愛我們。在此基礎上，第一季度也取得了成功。我們的月活動率從一年前的 78.0% 增至 82.1%，連續第九個季度增長。我們在所有 3 個市場都看到了積極且不斷增長的活動勢頭。我們戰略的第二個支柱是收入擴張。第一張圖表是我們的主要銀行業務關係圖表。它代表每月向我們轉移稅後收入 50% 以上的活躍客戶的百分比。

Nearly 60% of our active customers are already primary banking relationship customers, and the pace at which our active customers become our primary banking relationship customer has happened faster and faster over time, driven by 2 types of factors: First, external factors such as COVID peaks and the overall growing adoption of digital banking; second, internal factors such as the launching of new high-quality products and features.

我們近 60% 的活躍客戶已經是主要的銀行關係客戶，並且隨著時間的推移，我們的活躍客戶成為我們的主要銀行關係客戶的速度越來越快，這主要受兩種因素的驅動：首先，外部因素，例如 COVID峰值和數字銀行的整體採用率不斷提高；第二，內部因素，例如推出新的高質量產品和功能。

The second chart is our product cross-sell chart. As we have launched new products, we have successfully cross-sold them to our customers and earned the right to be the primary banking relationship of them. Now the third chart is our ARPAC chart. And it represents the compounding effect of our expanding customer engagement shown in the first chart, with our growing product cross-sell shown in the second chart.

第二張圖表是我們的產品交叉銷售圖表。隨著我們推出新產品，我們成功地將它們交叉銷售給我們的客戶，並贏得了成為他們主要銀行業務關係的權利。現在第三張圖表是我們的 ARPAC 圖表。它代表了第一個圖表中顯示的我們不斷擴大的客戶參與度以及第二個圖表中顯示的我們不斷增長的產品交叉銷售的複合效應。

In the last quarter, our monthly ARPAC reached a record high of $8.6. Yet the monthly ARPACs of our more mature cohorts are already above $20 and the monthly ARPACs of the customers who have bought our 3 core products, banking account, credit card and personal loans, are above $30. We have a long runway ahead of us. On this slide, the chart on the left shows that our monthly ARPAC continues to grow sequentially and was up 30% year-over-year on an FX-neutral basis.

在上個季度，我們的月度 ARPAC 達到了 8.6 美元的歷史新高。然而，我們更成熟的群體的每月 ARPAC 已經超過 20 美元，而購買了我們 3 種核心產品（銀行賬戶、信用卡和個人貸款）的客戶的每月 ARPAC 超過了 30 美元。我們前面有很長的跑道。在這張幻燈片上，左邊的圖表顯示我們的月度 ARPAC 繼續連續增長，並且在外匯中性的基礎上同比增長 30%。

Our ARPAC growth, together with the expansion of our customer base, drove an 87% increase in revenues year-over-year to $1.6 billion, also a record high. This slide provides some more details on our cards business. For cards, purchase volumes are seasonal, higher in the fourth quarter and lower in the first quarter of every year. Compared to the first quarter of last year, our purchase volume was up 48% on an FX-neutral basis to $23.3 billion, sustaining its strong growth path.

我們的 ARPAC 增長以及客戶群的擴大推動收入同比增長 87% 至 16 億美元，同樣創歷史新高。這張幻燈片提供了有關我們卡業務的更多詳細信息。對於卡，購買量是季節性的，第四季度較高，每年第一季度較低。與去年第一季度相比，在外匯中性基礎上，我們的採購量增長了 48%，達到 233 億美元，保持了強勁的增長勢頭。

The chart on the right shows how purchase volumes expand as cohorts of customers develop and mature. Older cohorts continue to purchase in higher volumes, spanning 3 to 4x more per month than recent cohorts. As we mentioned before, on average, our customers' credit card expenditure triples when they have been with us for more than 24 months. We expect the compounding effect of adding millions of customers each month, along with the maturation of these new customers into historically observed spending patterns, to provide ample support for the growth in future purchase volumes.

右邊的圖表顯示了購買量如何隨著客戶群體的發展和成熟而擴大。年齡較大的人群繼續購買更多數量，每月比最近的人群多 3 到 4 倍。正如我們之前提到的，平均而言，當客戶與我們合作超過 24 個月時，他們的信用卡支出會增加三倍。我們預計每月增加數百萬客戶的複合效應，以及這些新客戶成熟為歷史觀察到的消費模式，將為未來購買量的增長提供充分的支持。

Looking into reported purchase volumes trends for the industry, Nu ended last quarter with a market share of around 13.6%, adding both credit and prepaid cards, an increase of 40 basis points quarter-over-quarter. This quarter, our consumer finance portfolio composed of credit card and personal loans reached $12.8 billion, a 54% expansion year-over-year.

從報告的行業購買量趨勢來看，Nu 上季度末的市場份額約為 13.6%，加上信用卡和預付卡，環比增長 40 個基點。本季度，我們由信用卡和個人貸款組成的消費金融組合達到 128 億美元，同比增長 54%。

Despite negative seasonality in purchase volumes, total credit card receivables expanded sequentially and increased 64% year-over-year, driven by client growth and the net evolution of our low and grow methodology. More importantly, our personal loan portfolio expanded significantly in the quarter. As you might remember, through most of 2022, we were cautious with originations in personal loans, a posture resulting from the increased risk we perceived in the product during the period.

儘管購買量出現負季節性，但受客戶增長以及我們低增長方法的淨演變推動，信用卡應收賬款總額環比增長，同比增長 64%。更重要的是，我們的個人貸款組合在本季度顯著擴大。您可能還記得，在 2022 年的大部分時間裡，我們對個人貸款的發放持謹慎態度，這是由於我們在此期間認為該產品的風險增加而導致的。

Starting late last year, as Youssef will explain later, our portfolio exceeded our expectations in terms of performance, which gave us confidence to take bolder steps with originations. As a result, our personal loan book increased 18% quarter-over-quarter to $2.3 billion. Let's now move to the breakdown of interest-earning loans in our portfolio. We continue to pursue a strategy of increasing the share of our credit card loans that earn interest.

從去年年底開始，正如 Youssef 稍後將解釋的那樣，我們的產品組合在性能方面超出了我們的預期，這讓我們有信心在原創方面採取更大膽的步驟。因此，我們的個人貸款賬目環比增長 18% 至 23 億美元。現在讓我們來看看我們投資組合中生息貸款的細分。我們繼續奉行增加賺取利息的信用卡貸款份額的戰略。

This quarter, our interest-earning installments balance once again gained share, representing a record high 16% of our credit card loan book. We prefer interest-earning installments where we see attractive risk-adjusted rates of return that allow us to further monetize our credit card business over revolving receivables, where we see a less favorable risk return profile and higher adverse selection. We have intentionally not expanded our share of revolving receivables, which continue at 7% of total credit card receivables for the third consecutive quarter. Because of this Nu widened the gap versus the market, where revolving receivables accounted for 18% of credit card receivables as of the end of the first quarter.

本季度，我們的生息分期付款餘額再次增加，占我們信用卡貸款賬目的 16% 的歷史新高。我們更喜歡生息分期付款，因為我們看到有吸引力的風險調整回報率，使我們能夠進一步貨幣化我們的信用卡業務而不是循環應收賬款，我們看到不太有利的風險回報狀況和更高的逆向選擇。我們有意不擴大我們在循環應收賬款中的份額，它連續第三個季度佔信用卡應收賬款總額的 7%。因此，Nu 擴大了與市場的差距，截至第一季度末，循環應收賬款佔信用卡應收賬款的 18%。

The performance of our personal loans cohorts improved over the last several months, giving us the conviction necessary to increase loan originations. As our portfolio continues to show strong resilience and performance, we progressively increase our risk appetite, deploying capital profitably and consistently. Our launch of payroll lending would add to this strategy, reinforcing our opportunities for growth in originations. We are confident in our ability to drive responsible growth in lending. This belief is supported by our best-in-class underwriting platform, our strong capital base and our ample liquidity position.

在過去幾個月中，我們的個人貸款隊列的表現有所改善，使我們堅信增加貸款發放是必要的。隨著我們的投資組合繼續表現出強大的彈性和表現，我們逐步提高風險偏好，以有利可圖的方式持續配置資本。我們推出的薪資貸款將增加這一戰略，加強我們的增長機會。我們有信心推動負責任的貸款增長。這種信念得到了我們一流的承銷平台、強大的資本基礎和充足的流動性狀況的支持。

Moving to funding. Supported by the growth in our customers' base, total deposits expanded 34% year-over-year. It's important to note that fourth quarters are seasonally strong for deposit inflows, while first quarters are seasonally weak. Our loan-to-deposit ratio achieved 32% this quarter, showing the Nu optimized the use of those deposits quarter after quarter.

轉向資金。在客戶群增長的支持下，總存款同比增長 34%。值得注意的是，第四季度存款流入季節性強勁，而第一季度季節性疲軟。本季度我們的貸存比達到 32%，表明 Nu 逐季優化了這些存款的使用。

In the fourth quarter of 2022, our cost of funding dropped to an all-time low of 78% of the interbank deposit rate, driven by 3 factors: the full impact of the recently launched Money Boxes; the change in the remuneration of Nu Accounts; and the seasonally higher levels of deposits at the end of the year. As we had anticipated previously, our cost of funding should also lay upwards to approximately 80% of CDI over the initial 3 quarters of the year.

在 2022 年第四季度，我們的資金成本降至銀行同業存款利率 78% 的歷史最低水平，這主要受三個因素的推動：最近推出的 Money Boxes 的全面影響； Nu 賬戶報酬的變化；以及年末季節性較高的存款水平。正如我們之前預期的那樣，我們的融資成本在今年前 3 個季度也應該上升到 CDI 的 80% 左右。

In this context, the level of 81% of CDI observed this quarter is in line with our expectation and also shows that we are starting to unlock the value of the strong liability franchise we have been able to build. With the recent launch of Cuenta Nu in Mexico, which, in less than a week after its official launch, already surpassed 500,000 accounts open. We are offering a more compelling value proposition for customers in the country and should be able to onboard more individuals month after month, helping to further strengthen our deposit franchise in the country.

在此背景下，本季度觀察到的 81% 的 CDI 水平符合我們的預期，也表明我們開始釋放我們能夠建立的強大責任特許經營權的價值。隨著最近在墨西哥推出 Cuenta Nu，在正式推出後不到一周的時間裡，開設的賬戶已經超過 500,000 個。我們正在為該國的客戶提供更具吸引力的價值主張，並且應該能夠逐月吸引更多的人，幫助進一步加強我們在該國的存款業務。

We expect the same to happen soon in Colombia. The combination of the continued growth of our credit portfolio with the Nu normal in our funding costs have contributed to the expansions of our net interest income, or NII, and net interest margin, or NIM, to record high levels. Our NII reached $815.3 million this quarter, growing an impressive 138% year-over-year. Our NIM increased by 2.2 percentage points quarter-over-quarter and 7.2 percentage points year-over-year to 15.7%.

我們預計同樣的情況很快會在哥倫比亞發生。我們信貸組合的持續增長與融資成本的 Nu 正常相結合，促使我們的淨利息收入 (NII) 和淨息差 (NIM) 擴大至創紀錄的高水平。本季度我們的 NII 達到 8.153 億美元，同比增長 138%，令人印象深刻。我們的 NIM 環比增長 2.2 個百分點，同比增長 7.2 個百分點至 15.7%。

Let's now turn our attention to the last pillar of our overall strategy, maintaining a low cost to serve. We continue to believe our platform is one of the most cost efficient in serving customers in the markets in which we operate. In the first quarter of 2023, our cost to serve per active customer was $0.80, largely flat year-over-year, while over the same period, our ARPAC increased 30%. This illustrates the strong operating leverage of our business model.

現在讓我們將注意力轉向我們總體戰略的最後一個支柱，即保持低成本服務。我們仍然相信，我們的平台是為我們運營所在市場的客戶提供服務的最具成本效益的平台之一。 2023 年第一季度，我們為每位活躍客戶提供服務的成本為 0.80 美元，同比基本持平，而同期，我們的 ARPAC 增長了 30%。這說明了我們商業模式的強大運營槓桿。

Looking ahead, as we said in past quarters, we expect our cost to serve to remain at or below $1 level as the scale gives us significant operating leverage and bargaining power with our suppliers. We recorded $651 million in gross profit in the first quarter. This was up 124% year-over-year, representing an important acceleration compared to the growth posted last quarter.

展望未來，正如我們在過去幾個季度所說，我們預計我們的成本將保持在或低於 1 美元的水平，因為規模為我們提供了重要的運營槓桿和與供應商的議價能力。我們在第一季度錄得 6.51 億美元的毛利。同比增長 124%，與上一季度的增長相比，這是一個重要的加速。

Following a similar trend, our gross profit margin reached 40.2% in the first quarter, almost 7 percentage points higher year-over-year, consolidating the acceleration in the pace of expansion that started in the third quarter of 2022. We achieved this result even with a higher amount of provisions this quarter as a result of the expansion of the originations of our lending portfolio as with upfront provisions and a slightly higher cost of funding in comparison to last quarters due to previous mentioned seasonal patterns.

遵循類似的趨勢，我們第一季度的毛利率達到 40.2%，同比增長近 7 個百分點，鞏固了從 2022 年第三季度開始的加速擴張步伐。我們甚至取得了這一成績由於我們的貸款組合的起源與前期準備金的擴大，本季度的準備金數量增加，並且由於前面提到的季節性模式，與上個季度相比，融資成本略高。

We continue to see operating leverage as a defining feature of our strategy. It is best illustrated by our efficiency ratio, which in the first quarter improved for the fifth consecutive time to reach another all-time low at 39% or 33.5%, excluding share-based compensation. This level of efficiency would already rank Nu Holdings as one of the most efficient players in Latin America.

我們繼續將經營槓桿視為我們戰略的決定性特徵。我們的效率比最好地說明了這一點，該效率比在第一季度連續第五次提高，達到 39% 或 33.5% 的歷史新低，不包括基於股票的薪酬。這種效率水平已經將 Nu Holdings 列為拉丁美洲最高效的參與者之一。

That said, we see this as only the beginning as we expect to benefit from the full potential of our platform's operating leverage, as we continue to grow our customer base, upsell and cross-sell products, launch new features, earning flat results in our Nu geos of Mexico and Colombia, which still run at deficits. In fact, looking into Brazil only, we would already be running at levels of cost to income in the mid-30s, which would likely place us as the most efficient among the big players in the country, although it's still in the early stages of our ramp-up.

也就是說，我們認為這只是一個開始，因為我們希望從我們平台的運營槓桿的全部潛力中受益，因為我們將繼續擴大我們的客戶群、追加銷售和交叉銷售產品、推出新功能、在我們的業務中獲得持平的結果墨西哥和哥倫比亞的 Nu geos，仍處於赤字狀態。事實上，只看巴西，我們的成本收入比已經達到了 30 年代中期的水平，這很可能使我們成為該國大企業中效率最高的，儘管它仍處於經濟增長的早期階段。我們的升級。

Finally, moving to net income. We posted yet another quarter of improved bottom line performance. Our adjusted net income and net income amounted to $182.4 million and $141.8 million, respectively. To us, these encouraging results are validating our strategy and business model. While we are encouraged by the results in the first quarter, it's important to reinforce that we manage our business with a view towards long-term value creation.

最後，轉向淨收入。我們又發布了四分之一的改善底線業績。我們調整後的淨收入和淨收入分別為 1.824 億美元和 1.418 億美元。對我們來說，這些令人鼓舞的結果正在驗證我們的戰略和商業模式。雖然我們對第一季度的結果感到鼓舞，但重要的是要強調我們以創造長期價值的觀點來管理我們的業務。

This can require additional investments in the short term aimed at optimizing our long-term opportunities. To review our performance in the first quarter from a different viewpoint, I would like to highlight the sustainable advantages we are maintaining across 4 cost pillars. On cost to acquire, we added more than 4 million customers in the quarter with the same low CAC as in prior periods. On cost to serve, despite persistent inflation in the countries in which we operate as well as 2 businesses that are yet to reach scale, our cost to serve remains below $1.

這可能需要在短期內進行額外投資，以優化我們的長期機會。為了從不同的角度回顧我們第一季度的業績，我想強調我們在 4 個成本支柱上保持的可持續優勢。在獲取成本方面，我們在本季度增加了超過 400 萬客戶，且 CAC 與前期相同。在服務成本方面，儘管我們經營所在的國家/地區持續通貨膨脹，而且 2 家企業尚未達到規模，但我們的服務成本仍低於 1 美元。

On cost of risk, we successfully managed the risk in our credit portfolio, aiming a very challenging backdrop and continue to outperform competitors when comparing apples to apples. Youssef will provide more details shortly. And lastly, cost of funding. We began to unlock the potential of our deposit franchise, closing the negative gap we had against incumbent banks and widening the positive gaps against fintechs.

在風險成本方面，我們成功地管理了信貸組合中的風險，瞄準了一個非常具有挑戰性的背景，並在同類比較中繼續優於競爭對手。 Youssef 將很快提供更多詳細信息。最後，資金成本。我們開始釋放存款業務的潛力，縮小與現有銀行的負差距，並擴大與金融科技公司的正差距。

We are very excited about what we have been able to achieve and are confident in our ability to develop and scale best-in-class products, expand internationally and operate at very low costs. Now I'd like to turn the call over to Youssef, our President and Chief Operating Officer, who will walk you through some highlights of our asset quality.

我們對我們能夠取得的成就感到非常興奮，並對我們開發和擴展一流產品、進行國際擴張以及以極低的成本運營的能力充滿信心。現在我想把電話轉給我們的總裁兼首席運營官 Youssef，他將向您介紹我們資產質量的一些亮點。

Thank you, Lago, and good evening to you all. Let me take you through some of the key indicators of asset quality and credit portfolio health for the first quarter of 2023. Let's start with NPL trends. Seasonally, the first quarter represents a high point for early-stage delinquencies. Specifically, 15 to 90 NPLs rise on average by 80 basis points going from Q4 to Q1 based on our historical data and in line with the rest of the market.

謝謝你，Lago，祝大家晚上好。讓我帶您了解 2023 年第一季度資產質量和信貸組合健康狀況的一些關鍵指標。讓我們從不良貸款趨勢開始。從季節性上看，第一季度是早期拖欠率的高點。具體而言，根據我們的歷史數據，從第 4 季度到第 1 季度，15 到 90 個不良貸款平均上升 80 個基點，與市場其他部分一致。

In Q1 2023, our 15 to 90 NPL ratio came in at 4.4%, increasing by 70 basis points from the fourth quarter of last year, which is 10 basis points lower than our historical trend. This slightly lower than seasonal norm increase was mainly driven by the improvement in our personal loan portfolio, itself a result of the actions we took last year.

2023 年第一季度，我們 15 比 90 的不良貸款率為 4.4%，比去年第四季度增加 70 個基點，比我們的歷史趨勢低 10 個基點。這一略低於季節性標準的增長主要是由於我們個人貸款組合的改善，這本身就是我們去年採取的行動的結果。

Our 90+ NPL ratio increased from 5.2% to 5.5% as a result of the normal flow through delinquency buckets. As we discussed in the past, 90+ is a stock rather than flow metric, so you get this sort of stacking dynamic over time. And since we do not and have not sold any delinquent loans, we do not get the purging effect of asset sales, which would artificially lower NPLs.

我們 90+ 的不良貸款率從 5.2% 增加到 5.5%，這是由於拖欠貸款桶的正常流動。正如我們過去討論的那樣，90+ 是一個存量指標而不是流量指標，所以隨著時間的推移，你會得到這種動態疊加。而且由於我們沒有也沒有出售任何拖欠貸款，我們沒有得到資產出售的淨化效果，這會人為地降低不良貸款。

With respect to loan renegotiations, they remained at around 8% of the book in the first quarter, with approximately half of those coming from customers who are current and not past due at the time of renegotiation. This is a result of us making it very easy for our customers to have active control over their finances. Many of them take advantage of that feature and go directly to the Nu app to edit their loan and payment schedule and make them more convenient and better synchronized.

關於貸款重新談判，他們在第一季度保持在賬面的 8% 左右，其中大約一半來自在重新談判時沒有逾期的當前客戶。這是因為我們讓我們的客戶很容易主動控制他們的財務。他們中的許多人利用該功能直接進入 Nu 應用程序來編輯他們的貸款和付款時間表，使它們更加方便和更好地同步。

This is counted and reported as a renegotiation, even though it's not necessarily representative of a credit stress situation. The 6 graphs on this slide show the time series of NPL for credit card loans by where the purple line represents Nu and the gray line represents the industry. Much like in prior quarters, we continue to outperform the industry on a like-for-like basis.

這被計為並報告為重新談判，儘管它不一定代表信用壓力情況。這張幻燈片上的 6 個圖表顯示了信用卡貸款不良貸款的時間序列，其中紫色線代表 Nu，灰色線代表行業。與前幾個季度非常相似，我們在同類基礎上繼續跑贏行業。

For the lower income band, our comparative advantage continues to be even more pronounced. Provisions have continued to grow, primarily driven by the growth in our portfolio, following the same dynamic as in prior quarters. We front-load provisions when we originate loans based on the expected losses for the life of the credit in accordance with IFRS 9's expected loss methodology.

對於低收入階層，我們的比較優勢繼續更加明顯。準備金繼續增長，主要受我們投資組合增長的推動，與前幾個季度一樣。根據 IFRS 9 的預期損失方法，我們根據信貸存續期內的預期損失發放貸款時提前準備好準備金。

The increase in provisions in the first quarter, therefore, is directly related to the increased volumes of origination we recorded in the quarter. Despite the higher provision volumes, our risk-adjusted NIM reached another record high of 6.6%, expanding by 120 basis points quarter-over-quarter. Compared to a year ago, the improvement is even more pronounced with risk-adjusted NIM up almost 4x compared to the levels of the first quarter of 2022.

因此，第一季度準備金的增加與我們在本季度記錄的發起量增加直接相關。儘管撥備量增加，我們的風險調整後淨息差仍創歷史新高 6.6%，環比擴大 120 個基點。與一年前相比，風險調整後的 NIM 與 2022 年第一季度的水平相比增長了近 4 倍，這一改善更為明顯。

Having shared these data and perspectives on credit and asset quality, let me now turn the call back over to our Founder and CEO, David Velez, for his concluding remarks.

在分享了這些關於信貸和資產質量的數據和觀點之後，現在讓我將電話轉回給我們的創始人兼首席執行官大衛貝萊斯，聽取他的總結髮言。

Thanks, Youssef. As we wrap up, I wanted to leave you with some thoughts about the future. This week, we're turning 10 years old, and we couldn't be more excited about what's ahead for Nu. In 10 years, we've been able to amass a combination of skills and capabilities that position us at a very differentiated place. As a result of working extremely hard on our mission of fighting complexity to empower our people, we have built one of the most loved and trusted brands in Brazil and increasingly in Mexico and Colombia.

謝謝，優素福。在我們結束時，我想給你留下一些關於未來的想法。本週，我們將迎來 10 歲生日，我們對 Nu 的未來感到無比興奮。在 10 年中，我們已經能夠積累技能和能力的組合，使我們處於一個非常差異化的位置。由於我們非常努力地完成我們與復雜性作鬥爭以賦予我們人民權力的使命，我們已經在巴西建立了最受喜愛和信任的品牌之一，並越來越多地在墨西哥和哥倫比亞建立了品牌。

We have reached significant scale in Brazil, allowing us to reach a level of operating efficiency that we can pass now onto our customers. We have better and better products at lower prices, enabling an accelerating flywheel. We have gathered significant data on top of a sophisticated data infrastructure, which is increasingly a key piece of our product design and artificial intelligence strategy. We have built unique capabilities in credit underwriting and financial services, helping us to develop a profit engine that we will use to reinvest in our services, verticals and geographies.

我們在巴西已經達到了顯著的規模，使我們能夠達到現在可以傳遞給客戶的運營效率水平。我們以更低的價格提供越來越好的產品，從而實現加速飛輪。我們在復雜的數據基礎設施之上收集了大量數據，這越來越成為我們產品設計和人工智能戰略的關鍵部分。我們在信用承銷和金融服務方面建立了獨特的能力，幫助我們開發一個利潤引擎，我們將用它來對我們的服務、垂直行業和地域進行再投資。

And finally, we believe we have assembled one of the best technology and product teams in the world, unique for a Latin American company. These ingredients are important pieces to what we decide to now go build over the next 10 years. And as we plan for the long run, we think there is an opportunity to see ourselves more as a consumer platform that enables the optimization of money on behalf of its users.

最後，我們相信我們已經組建了世界上最好的技術和產品團隊之一，這對於一家拉丁美洲公司來說是獨一無二的。這些成分是我們現在決定在未來 10 年內構建的重要組成部分。在我們制定長期計劃時，我們認為有機會更多地將自己視為一個消費者平台，能夠代表其用戶優化資金。

We have named this new category Money platform. The Money platform is a technology platform that has the optimization of money on behalf of its users at its core, the same way that a social platform has social interactions such as texts or photos or videos as its core. The Money platform's mission is to help consumers and small businesses fully optimize the creation and usage of their wealth across every single financial decision from investing to lending to day-to-day spending.

我們將這個新類別命名為 Money platform。 Money 平台是一個技術平台，以代表其用戶的貨幣優化為核心，就像社交平台以文本或照片或視頻等社交互動為核心一樣。 Money 平台的使命是幫助消費者和小型企業在從投資到貸款再到日常支出的每一個財務決策中充分優化財富的創造和使用。

Not only do most individuals and small businesses make poor financial decisions whereby investing in suboptimal products, overspending on goods or ever borrowing, but also they often bear excessive or unnecessary interest charges and fees to intermediaries. These costs can be detrimented to the economic welfare of an entire society.

大多數個人和小企業不僅做出糟糕的財務決策，投資於次優產品、在商品上超支或不斷借款，而且他們還經常向中介機構承擔過多或不必要的利息費用和費用。這些成本可能會損害整個社會的經濟福利。

Just imagine the amount of additional wealth that could be created for every member of society if every money-related decision, including purchasing the right goods at the lowest cost, was always optimized. This is a vision we have been pursuing for quite some time now, but we're very excited about how the advances in generative AI will help us to accelerate reaching this goal and we intend to make investments methodically to seize this opportunity.

試想一下，如果每項與金錢相關的決策（包括以最低成本購買合適的商品）始終得到優化，那麼可以為每個社會成員創造多少額外財富。這是我們長期以來一直追求的願景，但我們對生成式人工智能的進步將如何幫助我們加速實現這一目標感到非常興奮，我們打算有條不紊地進行投資以抓住這個機會。

Our strategy to get there is to continue building a comprehensive digital financial platform that provides the best financial products fully digitally across the 5 financial seasons: spending, saving, investing, protecting and borrowing. And in parallel, we use the brand, scale, data, process and talent we have to go beyond financial services and enable our customers to purchase products and services from our marketplace partners.

我們實現這一目標的戰略是繼續構建一個全面的數字金融平台，在 5 個財政季節提供完全數字化的最佳金融產品：支出、儲蓄、投資、保護和借貸。與此同時，我們利用品牌、規模、數據、流程和人才，超越金融服務，讓我們的客戶能夠從我們的市場合作夥伴那裡購買產品和服務。

As we think about the next 10 years, we truly feel that it is early days for Nu, and we hope to keep you positive as this vision progresses. We would like to take your questions now. Thank you very much.

當我們考慮未來 10 年時，我們真的覺得 Nu 還處於早期階段，我們希望隨著這一願景的進展讓您保持積極的態度。我們現在想回答您的問題。非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) I would like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer.

（操作員說明）我想將電話轉給投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。

Thank you, operator. And the first question comes from the line of Jorge Kuri at Morgan Stanley.

謝謝你，運營商。第一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Jorge Kuri。

Congrats on the fantastic numbers and congrats also on your 10-year anniversary. I wanted to ask about payroll loans, evidently a big product that you are doing either on a beta testing or already launched. And I wanted to see if you can share with us some of the results that you're seeing so far, what type of cross-selling are you getting? Is it mostly INSS? Is it mostly government workers? What type of rates and maturities are you seeing your customers take? What is this doing to your ARPAC? If you can share sort of like what the ARPAC would be for a payroll loan? What does it do for your return on equity? So that we understand as that business ramps up, how does it change your KPIs?

祝賀這些出色的數字，也祝賀您成立 10 週年。我想問一下工資單貸款，顯然是您正在進行 Beta 測試或已經推出的大型產品。我想看看你是否可以與我們分享你目前看到的一些結果，你得到了什麼類型的交叉銷售？主要是INSS嗎？主要是政府工作人員嗎？您看到您的客戶採用什麼類型的利率和期限？這對您的 ARPAC 有何影響？如果你能分享一下 ARPAC 對工資貸款的意義是什麼？它對您的股本回報率有何影響？這樣我們就可以了解隨著業務的增長，它如何改變您的 KPI？

Jorge, thank you so much for your question. This is Lago. Look, I'll try to share some of my thoughts, and then I'll pass it to Jag to complement with the recent experience that we have had. But entering payroll loans to us is a super important venture, not only from a financial perspective, but also from a strategic perspective. I think, first, you have to step back and realize that payroll loan is the single largest asset class that you have in consumer finance in Brazil.

豪爾赫，非常感謝你的問題。這是拉戈。看，我會試著分享我的一些想法，然後我會把它傳遞給 Jag，以補充我們最近的經驗。但是，無論是從財務角度還是從戰略角度來看，向我們發放工資貸款都是一項非常重要的冒險。我認為，首先，你必須退後一步，意識到工資貸款是巴西消費金融中最大的單一資產類別。

It accounts for about BRL 560 billion of loans in the country and one of the largest profit pools that you have in the region. And our customers, if we take the social security numbers of our customers and if we take them to the Brazilian Central Bank database, they already account for about 31% of the entire payroll loans in Brazil. So that means that we don't need to fish outside of our fish ball to tap into 1/3 of this very, very large market.

它佔該國約 5600 億雷亞爾的貸款，是該地區最大的利潤池之一。而我們的客戶，如果我們獲取客戶的社會保險號碼並將其存入巴西中央銀行的數據庫，他們已經佔巴西全部工資貸款的 31% 左右。所以這意味著我們不需要在我們的魚丸之外捕魚來進入這個非常非常大的市場的 1/3。

And we intend to do so no collateral agreement after collateral agreement. We started with CRP, which is the payroll loans offer to federal public servants. But we have also announced that we will follow this with INSS, which is payroll loans for pensioners and retirees, and we intend to expand this progressively as we learn more about the product.

我們打算在抵押協議之後沒有抵押協議。我們從 CRP 開始，這是向聯邦公務員提供的工資貸款。但我們還宣布，我們將緊隨其後推出 INSS，這是為養老金領取者和退休人員提供的工資貸款，我們打算隨著對該產品的更多了解而逐步擴大這一範圍。

What are the unit economics of the product for us, Jorge? And how do we expect this to impact our overall economics as a company? So the APR, the interest rates of payroll loans are smaller than those of credit cards and unsecured personal loans. They range anywhere between 1.5% and 2% per month. But conversely, payroll loans offer one of the lowest, if not the lowest, delinquency levels that we have in the industry and also a very low regulatory capital requirement.

Jorge，我們產品的單位經濟效益是多少？我們如何期望這會影響我們作為一家公司的整體經濟？因此，工資單貸款的年利率低於信用卡和無抵押個人貸款的利率。它們的範圍在每月 1.5% 到 2% 之間。但相反，工資貸款提供了我們行業中最低（如果不是最低的話）拖欠水平之一，而且監管資本要求也非常低。

It's about 50% of the regulatory capital requirements that you would need for unsecured personal loans. The consequence of this compounding effect and to the fact that we will not use loan brokers, we will do direct-to-consumer originations, and therefore, we will remove about 15% to 18% in origination cost is a product that we expect to provide us with ROEs at or higher than 30%.

這大約是無抵押個人貸款所需監管資本要求的 50%。這種複合效應的結果以及我們不會使用貸款經紀人的事實，我們將直接面向消費者發起，因此，我們將減少大約 15% 到 18% 的發起成本，這是我們期望的產品為我們提供 30% 或更高的股本回報率。

Therefore, we expect 2 things to happen in our overall company economics: One, the acceleration of the personal loan books; secondly, a progressive reduction in delinquencies overall. But Jag, I will let you comment on our recent experience and how excited our customers are with this product.

因此，我們預計公司整體經濟會發生兩件事：一是個人貸款賬簿的加速增長；其次，總體拖欠率逐步減少。但是 Jag，我會讓你評論我們最近的經歷以及我們的客戶對這款產品的興奮程度。

Thank you, Lago. Thank you for the question, Jorge. I'll just complement a couple of things that Lago said as he laid out the big picture. From a product perspective, it is still early days. We launched the product and are still rolling it out in April. But we followed a pretty classic Nubank formula of launching a mobile product that is very simple to sign up for direct-to-consumer with a very transparent set of pricing and terms and conditions.

謝謝你，拉戈。謝謝你的問題，豪爾赫。我將補充 Lago 在規劃大局時所說的幾件事。從產品的角度來看，現在還處於早期階段。我們推出了該產品，並在 4 月份繼續推出。但我們遵循了一個非常經典的 Nubank 公式，即推出一款非常簡單的移動產品，通過一套非常透明的定價和條款和條件直接面向消費者註冊。

What we are hearing from the early customers who have started to engage with us on Consignado, particularly SIAPE Consignado is genuine delight with the simplicity of the sign-up flow of the transparency of the product, how easy it is to understand. And we are in the midst of testing a fairly wide range, wide spectrum of pricing, which we will optimize over time. But what we found is a set of customers who are extremely reactive to the pricing and the fact that we can leverage our cost advantage, as Lago alluded to, to give customers a fair price.

我們從已經開始在 Consignado 上與我們互動的早期客戶那裡聽到的消息，特別是 SIAPE Consignado 對產品透明的註冊流程的簡單性以及它的易懂性感到由衷的高興。我們正在測試相當廣泛的定價範圍，我們將隨著時間的推移對其進行優化。但我們發現，一群客戶對定價非常敏感，而且正如 Lago 提到的那樣，我們可以利用我們的成本優勢為客戶提供公平的價格。

So that combination of a fair price, along with a simple mobile product, has given us a response that has exceeded our expectations in the early stages of rollout. We are being very careful and stepwise in that rollout process to get the product, the pricing and the experience right, but we couldn't be more encouraged in the first month or so that we've put the product out there.

因此，合理的價格與簡單的移動產品相結合，給我們帶來的反響超出了我們在推出初期的預期。我們在推出過程中非常謹慎和逐步，以獲得正確的產品、定價和體驗，但我們在第一個月左右就受到了極大的鼓舞，所以我們已經把產品放在那裡了。

As Lago mentioned, Consignado SIAPE is just the first step of our payroll lending road map through this year and beyond. INSS and other groups of federal employee -- public employees -- public sector employees are on our road map, and we're working systematically through those agreements.

正如 Lago 所提到的，Consignado SIAPE 只是我們今年及以後薪資貸款路線圖的第一步。 INSS 和其他聯邦僱員團體——公共僱員——公共部門僱員在我們的路線圖上，我們正在通過這些協議系統地開展工作。

And our next question comes from the line of Tito Labarta from Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的 Tito Labarta。

Congratulations on the very strong results. My question is on the personal loans, right? We saw a very strong acceleration in the origination this quarter, despite asset quality still deteriorating. I know there's some seasonality there. But just how you think about this going forward? I mean I think initial signs, you feel comfortable with the asset quality outlook. But is there room to accelerate this product more this year just to think about how that will continue to grow throughout the year and as potentially asset quality may begin to improve?

祝賀你取得了非常好的結果。我的問題是關於個人貸款的，對嗎？儘管資產質量仍在惡化，但本季度我們看到了非常強勁的發起加速。我知道那裡有一些季節性。但你如何看待這件事的發展？我的意思是，我認為初步跡象表明，您對資產質量前景感到滿意。但今年是否有進一步加速該產品的空間，只是為了考慮全年將如何繼續增長以及潛在的資產質量可能開始改善？

Tito, thanks for the question. This is Youssef. So yes, with respect to the unsecured personal loan book, as you recall, towards the middle of last year, we decelerated a bit origination. There was a lot more uncertainty at that time around what sort of normalization post-COVID we would see. We didn't have a reference point unlike in credit cards for what pre-COVID looked like, we were pretty cautious.

鐵托，謝謝你的提問。這是優素福。所以是的，關於無擔保個人貸款賬簿，正如你記得的那樣，在去年年中，我們放慢了一點發起。當時關於我們將看到什麼樣的 COVID 後正常化存在更多的不確定性。與信用卡不同，對於 COVID 之前的情況，我們沒有參考點，我們非常謹慎。

In the time period since then, we've made several improvements in terms of pricing, in terms of models, in terms of the resilience of our originations. And we just accumulated a lot more data, more data on more customers across more products. And so what you see is the combined result of all of those things, whereby we've observed performance of our most recent cohorts to be quite strong and in fact, actually a bit better than what we expected.

從那以後的這段時間裡，我們在定價、模型和我們的起源的彈性方面做了一些改進。我們剛剛積累了更多的數據，更多關於更多產品的更多客戶的數據。所以你看到的是所有這些事情的綜合結果，據此我們觀察到我們最近一批人的表現非常強勁，事實上，實際上比我們預期的要好一點。

And so that's given us a lot more confidence to reaccelerate and grow quite a bit in this segment. As an aside, the movement on delinquency rates is completely explained by seasonality. In fact, it's a little bit better than seasonality. So normalized for seasonal pattern, I would say that exceeded our expectations on NPLs alone. And so going forward, all of this gives us quite a bit of confidence to continue to accelerate the growth in that unsecured lending category.

因此，這讓我們更有信心在這一領域重新加速和增長。順便說一句，拖欠率的變動完全可以用季節性來解釋。事實上，它比季節性好一點。如此標準化的季節性模式，我想說這超出了我們對不良貸款的預期。因此，展望未來，所有這些都讓我們有信心繼續加速無抵押貸款類別的增長。

Okay. Great. That's helpful. If I can ask a follow-up then. So as you continue to accelerate growth both here, I mean, credit cards also had strong growth and you're getting into the payroll lending. You delivered about 11% ROE in the quarter. As you accelerate your loan growth and as David mentioned, right, to really be profitable, you have to be in lending. Is it fair to assume that, that profitability just should kind of continue to go up as you grow that loan book, assuming that you manage the asset quality as you've been doing so far?

好的。偉大的。這很有幫助。如果我可以問跟進的話。所以當你在這裡繼續加速增長時，我的意思是，信用卡也有強勁的增長，你正在進入工資單貸款。您在本季度交付了約 11% 的股本回報率。當你加速貸款增長時，正如大衛提到的那樣，要真正盈利，你必須從事貸款業務。假設您像目前所做的那樣管理資產質量，那麼假設隨著貸款賬簿的增長，盈利能力應該會繼續上升，這是否公平？

Tito, this is Lago. Thanks for your question. We do expect that the profitability levels that we have showcased in the last 2 quarters in Brazil and overall to be at sustainable levels. We don't provide necessarily guidance on where they will be precisely. But if you take a look at our Brazilian operations, we are far from being at optimal structure in terms of costs and in terms of leverage. There is still way more room for improvement there, and we continue to invest for the future.

蒂托，這是拉戈。謝謝你的問題。我們確實希望我們在過去兩個季度在巴西和整體上展示的盈利水平處於可持續水平。我們不一定會就它們的確切位置提供指導。但如果你看一下我們在巴西的業務，我們在成本和槓桿方面遠未達到最佳結構。那裡還有更多的改進空間，我們將繼續為未來投資。

We continue to invest in cost and expenses related to the development of new products and features. But if you take a look at the 3 geos in which we operate, we do expect to have relatively similar levels of returns by leveraging our very advantage cost structure.

我們繼續投資於與新產品和功能開發相關的成本和費用。但是，如果您看一下我們運營的 3 個地理區域，我們確實希望通過利用我們極具優勢的成本結構獲得相對相似的回報水平。

Tito, David here, just adding one more point here. I mean, I think, to be frank, it's not -- it should not really come as a surprise as it's very consistent with the view we've discussed with investors now for over a decade around the efficiency of the business model, the moment that we are able to serve 80 million customers with about 8,000 people from one centralized location at our cost to serve that it's about 20x more efficient than traditional banks without the banking branches, with the benefits of using a lot of data to underwrite and to cross-sell at effectively no additional customer acquisition cost.

Tito，大衛，這裡再補充一點。我的意思是，我認為，坦率地說，這不是——這真的不應該讓人感到意外，因為它與我們十多年來就商業模式效率與投資者討論的觀點非常一致，目前我們能夠以我們的成本從一個集中位置為約 8,000 名員工的 8,000 萬客戶提供服務 它的效率比沒有銀行分支機構的傳統銀行高出約 20 倍，並具有使用大量數據進行承銷和交叉的好處- 以有效的方式銷售，無需額外的客戶獲取成本。

All of those factors ultimately just drive into this return of equity that we are finally able to show in more mature operations like Brazil. And this is still in an operation where we're growing 100% year-over-year, and we're still investing a lot for growth in Brazil for 2024, 2025, 2026, investing in a lot of new products and verticals that are still generating serial -- will generate serial revenues for a while.

所有這些因素最終只會推動我們最終能夠在像巴西這樣更成熟的業務中展示的這種股權回報。這仍然是一項我們每年增長 100% 的業務，我們仍在為 2024 年、2025 年、2026 年在巴西的增長進行大量投資，投資許多新產品和垂直行業仍在產生序列 - 將在一段時間內產生序列收入。

So we think there is a lot of opportunity ahead to continue driving that return on equity at those levels and potentially up. But it's still very, I would say, is consistent with the way I think we've been all along said that the model itself carries pretty significant cost advantage.

因此，我們認為未來有很多機會繼續推動這些水平的股本回報率並可能上升。但我想說，它仍然非常符合我認為我們一直以來所說的模型本身俱有相當顯著的成本優勢的方式。

And our next question comes from the line of (inaudible) from Credit Suisse.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的（聽不清）。

Congratulations on the strong results. It is indeed very impressive to see the high profitability in Brazil after reaching a more material level, right? So in Mexico and Colombia, right, we are -- still see early stages. And it would be very helpful if you could share with us some insights on the 2022 cohorts on ARPAC and asset quality evolution and maybe compare to Brazil and compare the potential to Brazil?

祝賀你取得了優異的成績。看到巴西在達到更物質層面後的高盈利能力，確實非常令人印象深刻，對吧？所以在墨西哥和哥倫比亞，對，我們仍然處於早期階段。如果您能與我們分享一些關於 2022 年 ARPAC 和資產質量演變的見解，並可能與巴西進行比較並將潛力與巴西進行比較，那將非常有幫助？

And also, if I may, I was curious about Jag's quote on an interview that you should not listen to clients 100%, but to ask the right questions, right, so that determined their pains. So I wanted to know in Mexico versus Brazil, how this has been playing out considering the particularities among each countries?

而且，如果可以的話，我很好奇 Jag 在一次採訪中的名言，即你不應該 100% 傾聽客戶的意見，而是要問正確的問題，對，這樣就決定了他們的痛苦。所以我想知道在墨西哥和巴西的比賽中，考慮到每個國家的特殊性，這是如何進行的？

Daniel, this is Youssef. So with respect to kind of benchmarking Colombia and Mexico to Brazil, I would break it into 3 parts. So first of all, just comparing credit cards -- credit card products across the 3 markets. One of the main differences you see is, both in Mexico and Colombia, consumers tend to use credit cards as not just a means of payment but also a borrowing vehicle. So you tend to get in the higher rates of revolve, which in turn cause both ARPAC to be higher and NPLs to be higher.

丹尼爾，這是優素福。因此，關於將哥倫比亞和墨西哥與巴西進行比較的基準，我會將其分為 3 個部分。所以首先，只是比較信用卡——三個市場的信用卡產品。您看到的主要差異之一是，在墨西哥和哥倫比亞，消費者往往不僅將信用卡用作支付手段，而且將其用作借貸工具。所以你傾向於獲得更高的周轉率，這反過來導致 ARPAC 和 NPLs 都更高。

But from -- on a return basis, they produce comparable levels of ROA and ROE. The second point that I would make is when we look at our experience so far in the 3 years since we launched Mexico and 1.5 years or so since we launched Colombia, if anything, we're seeing the Brazil playbook to work very well in both countries and we're actually able to capitalize on all the work that's been done in Brazil, the platforms we've developed and actually execute on a faster basis in both Mexico and Colombia.

但從——在回報的基礎上，它們產生了可比水平的 ROA 和 ROE。我要說的第二點是，當我們回顧自推出墨西哥以來的 3 年和推出哥倫比亞以來的 1.5 年左右的經驗時，如果有的話，我們看到巴西的劇本在這兩個方面都非常有效國家，我們實際上能夠利用在巴西所做的所有工作，我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞開發並實際執行得更快的平台。

So we see faster time to market, faster launch of new products and new features and even higher levels of NPS and penetration compared to Brazil at the same point in time. I'll point out is moving beyond credit card is, as Lago alluded to in his earlier comments, the introduction of the basic account of the Cuenta, which we just started in Mexico, is going to be a game changer because it's going to allow us to now say yes to offer a product and to say yes to everyone who applies to Nu.

因此，與同一時間點的巴西相比，我們看到更快的上市時間、更快的新產品和新功能發布以及更高水平的 NPS 和滲透率。我要指出的是，除了信用卡之外，正如拉戈在他之前的評論中提到的那樣，我們剛剛在墨西哥開始的 Cuenta 基本賬戶的引入將改變遊戲規則，因為它將允許我們現在說“是”提供產品，並對所有申請 Nu 的人說“是”。

It's going to allow us to gather a lot more data to underwrite better on those customers and it allows us to build a solid local deposit base to be able to grow credit card and other lending products going forward.

這將使我們能夠收集更多數據以更好地為這些客戶提供承保，並使我們能夠建立穩固的本地存款基礎，以便能夠在未來發展信用卡和其他貸款產品。

And our next question comes from the line of Geoffrey Elliott from Autonomous.

我們的下一個問題來自 Autonomous 的 Geoffrey Elliott。

Hello, can you hear me now?

你好，你現在能聽到我說話嗎？

Yes, we can.

我們可以。

Perfect. There's been some discussion about changes to the way the credit card market works in Brazil, potentially capping the revolving rates, which I know can be very, very high. What's your take on what comes out of that, if anything?

完美的。有一些關於改變巴西信用卡市場運作方式的討論，可能會限制循環利率，我知道循環利率可能非常非常高。如果有的話，你對由此產生的結果有何看法？

Geoff, this is Lago. Thanks for your question. Look, the discussions about reviewing the economics of credit card in Brazil have been ongoing for many years involving both the government and many industry participants. And those discussions are not simple because the topic is indeed highly complex. And then it's highly complex in my view for 2 reasons. Number one, because the credit card is a very big industry in Brazil. It accounts for about 40% of the personal consumption expenditures and over 20% of the GDP of the country.

傑夫，這是拉戈。謝謝你的問題。你看，關於審查巴西信用卡經濟性的討論已經持續多年，涉及政府和許多行業參與者。這些討論並不簡單，因為這個話題確實非常複雜。然後在我看來它非常複雜，原因有兩個。第一，因為信用卡在巴西是一個非常大的產業。它佔個人消費支出的40%左右，佔國內生產總值的20%以上。

In 2022, the purchase volume of credit cards amounted to over BRL 2 trillion. So any disruption to this industry can have major consequences to the consumption in the country. That's number one. Number two, credit card also happens in Brazil to be a very complex industry. As you know, only 25% of the receivables bear in interest versus about 70% in most other countries. And this creates a number of no idiosyncrasies and cross subsidies.

2022年，信用卡消費額超過2萬億雷亞爾。因此，對該行業的任何破壞都可能對該國的消費產生重大影響。這是第一。第二，信用卡在巴西也是一個非常複雜的行業。如您所知，只有 25% 的應收賬款帶息，而在大多數其他國家/地區，這一比例約為 70%。而這就造成了一些沒有特質和交叉補貼。

And not to mention that the industry also has many, many stakeholders such as merchants, acquirers, networks, issuers and consumers. So a fairly complex puzzle to be cracked. Now we have had the opportunity to engage in very constructive and technical dialogue with the Brazilian government and other industry participants and believe that the Brazilian government has fully comprehended and assimilated the complexities of the credit card industry and the multiple economic levers that exist such as no interest rates, interchange rates and interest fee, then you cannot change one thing without also changing the others.

更不用說這個行業還有很多很多的利益相關者，比如商家、收單機構、網絡、發行人和消費者。所以要破解一個相當複雜的謎題。現在我們有機會與巴西政府和其他行業參與者進行非常有建設性和技術性的對話，並且相信巴西政府已經充分理解並吸收了信用卡行業的複雜性以及存在的多種經濟槓桿，例如沒有利率、交換利率和利息費用，那麼你不能改變一件事而不改變其他事情。

So even though it's probably too premature at this point in time to draw any conclusions or expectations as to when and how those discussions will unfold, we are very confident that they will unfold in a matter there is no -- very balanced and will not put at risk the gains in financial inclusion and competition that have been acquired by the country over the past decade.

因此，儘管現在就這些討論將在何時以及如何展開得出任何結論或預期可能還為時過早，但我們非常有信心，它們將在一個沒有的問題上展開——非常平衡，不會該國過去十年在金融普惠和競爭方面取得的成果面臨風險。

And the 40% or -- I think this quarter, 43% ROE in Brazil, clearly, a very impressive number. But do you think that could become problematic in those discussions, sometimes politicians look at returns and think, wow, this is getting really high. Maybe I should do something about that.

而 40% 或 - 我認為本季度，巴西 43% 的股本回報率，顯然，這是一個非常令人印象深刻的數字。但是你認為這在那些討論中會成為問題嗎，有時政客們看著回報並想，哇，這真的很高。也許我應該為此做點什麼。

I think two comments I would say. So I think first and foremost, the returns that we have here are the result of a very superior cost advantage that we have. I wouldn't say that the returns that we are posting in our operations in Brazil are market level returns, much less they are reflective of our stand-alone credit card operations. That's first comp. The second one is the discussions that we have had with the government have proven to be super technical and constructive. So I would be surprised if anyone would anchor on 1 or 2 quarters of returns to contaminate the dialogue.

我想我會說兩點意見。所以我認為首先，我們在這裡獲得的回報是我們擁有非常優越的成本優勢的結果。我不會說我們在巴西業務中公佈的回報是市場水平的回報，更不用說它們反映了我們獨立的信用卡業務。那是第一個比賽。第二個是我們與政府進行的討論已被證明是超級技術和建設性的。因此，如果有人會錨定 1 或 2 個季度的回報來污染對話，我會感到驚訝。

And our next question comes from the line of Pedro Leduc at Itau.

我們的下一個問題來自 Itau 的 Pedro Leduc。

A little bit on the credit card loan book, you're still growing very fast. If you could help us understand a bit on how much is higher limits or usage per clients and sort of new clients? And perhaps a second question tied to that. An update on anything this quarter that we're already seeing and your effort to move up the higher income clients lay out perhaps some actions that you're taking there? Really to understand a little bit your credit card loan book growth.

信用卡貸款簿上的一點點，你的增長速度仍然非常快。如果您能幫助我們了解每個客戶和新客戶的更高限製或使用量是多少？也許與此相關的第二個問題。本季度我們已經看到的任何更新以及您為提升高收入客戶所做的努力可能會列出您在那裡採取的一些行動？真正了解一點你的信用卡貸款賬簿增長。

Pedro, this is Youssef. I would say on the credit card, we're continuing to see, as you pointed out, really strong growth. We're really pleased with the performance of the portfolio overall and also when we look at sort of cohort by cohort at the latest cohorts, both on a return on NPV and NPL basis, they have come at or even slightly better than our expectations. So we remain pleased with the performance of that book and really encouraged by the prospects of growth going forward.

佩德羅，這是優素福。我會在信用卡上說，正如您所指出的那樣，我們將繼續看到非常強勁的增長。我們對投資組合的整體表現感到非常滿意，而且當我們按 NPV 和 NPL 的回報率逐個查看最新隊列時，它們已經達到甚至略高於我們的預期。因此，我們仍然對那本書的表現感到滿意，並對未來的增長前景感到非常鼓舞。

And one thing I would point out which is even if credit card is our most mature and oldest product, and we have now about 40% or so of all adults in Brazil as customers, our share of purchase volume credit cards is only 13%. We just crossed 13% in the quarter. And so we see a lot of runway to continue to gain share above and beyond continuing to add customers. And I'll let Jag comment on our efforts on the upmarket segment.

我要指出的一件事是，即使信用卡是我們最成熟和最古老的產品，而且我們現在有大約 40% 左右的巴西成年人作為客戶，我們在信用卡購買量中的份額僅為 13%。我們在本季度剛剛超過 13%。因此，我們看到很多跑道在繼續增加客戶之外繼續獲得份額。我會讓 Jag 評論我們在高端市場的努力。

Thank you, Youssef. Pedro, thank you for the question. Let me first provide a little bit of context on generally how we approach the building of products. So we always look at any product -- any new product we're building or any customer segment we're trying to address with a fairly standard approach in formula. First, we want to build a strong relationship with our customers. Second, we want to work to gain principality and a lead position. And third, we monetize.

謝謝你，優素福。佩德羅，謝謝你的提問。首先讓我簡要介紹一下我們通常如何構建產品。因此，我們始終關注任何產品——我們正在構建的任何新產品或我們試圖通過相當標準的公式方法解決的任何客戶群。首先，我們希望與客戶建立牢固的關係。第二，我們要努力爭取主導權和領先地位。第三，我們貨幣化。

Those things don't necessarily happen in sequence. They can happen in parallel, but that's generally the stack rank of our approach and how we think about it. When it comes to the high-income segment, focused particularly on Brazil, we already have, as customers, about 6 in 10 of those high-income customers in Brazil are already Nubank customers that have a credit card, a bank account and other products with us. And so we already have a great starting point in terms of an established relationship with those customers.

這些事情不一定按順序發生。它們可以並行發生，但這通常是我們方法的堆棧等級以及我們對它的看法。對於高收入人群，尤其是巴西的高收入人群，作為客戶，我們已經擁有十分之六的巴西高收入客戶已經是擁有信用卡、銀行賬戶和其他產品的 Nubank 客戶和我們。因此，就與這些客戶建立關係而言，我們已經有了一個很好的起點。

In fact, quite recently, Bain just published its most recent Prism NPS report for Q1. And what that shows is that the segment of customers where we have actually our highest NPS is with the high-income customers. Now that's a segment where many players have a stronger NPS relative to other segments. But our lead in that high-income segment on customer love on NPS is roughly the same. It's in the same ballpark. So we are encouraged that we are establishing credibility and trust with that customer segment.

事實上，就在最近，貝恩剛剛發布了其最新的第一季度 Prism NPS 報告。這表明我們實際上擁有最高 NPS 的客戶群是高收入客戶。現在，在這個細分市場中，許多玩家相對於其他細分市場擁有更強的 NPS。但我們在 NPS 上的客戶喜愛度方面在高收入細分市場中的領先優勢大致相同。它在同一個球場。因此，我們感到鼓舞的是，我們正在與該客戶群建立信譽和信任。

And we're starting to see that in our products, whether it's in the credit card product area or others, where we're getting increasingly confident based on the activity we're seeing with high-income customers that they're starting to believe and think of Nubank as a bank that they can work with. And so that progress that we are seeing over the last couple of quarters is starting to give us increased confidence that we can address that segment with a full suite of products. Credit card as always is usually our lead product and that's been several years and lots of work on the road map to start to make that happen.

我們開始在我們的產品中看到這一點，無論是在信用卡產品領域還是其他領域，基於我們在高收入客戶中看到的他們開始相信的活動，我們越來越有信心並將 Nubank 視為他們可以與之合作的銀行。因此，我們在過去幾個季度看到的進展開始讓我們更有信心，我們可以用全套產品來解決這個細分市場。信用卡一如既往通常是我們的主導產品，並且已經進行了數年，並在路線圖上進行了大量工作才能開始實現這一目標。

And our next question comes from the line of Eduardo Rosman at BTG Pactual.

我們的下一個問題來自 BTG Pactual 的 Eduardo Rosman。

Congrats on the numbers. I have a question regarding your underwriting skills, which is also a follow-up to what Jag just explained. Clearly, you are very -- you are doing a very good job, right, since you've been able to grow a lot over a long period of time and also with better asset quality, but that's particularly true on credit cards, right? Here, the way I see you with the best product, particularly for the average Brazilian, do you think that the quality of your products and the high principality that you have with your clients create willingness to pay that could maybe be as important to know as the underwriting skills?

祝賀數字。我有一個關於你的承保技巧的問題，這也是 Jag 剛才解釋的內容的後續。很明顯，你非常 - 你做得很好，對吧，因為你已經能夠在很長一段時間內增長很多並且資產質量也更好，但信用卡尤其如此，對吧？在這裡，我看到你擁有最好的產品，特別是對於普通巴西人，你認為你的產品質量和你對客戶的高度信任會產生支付意願，這可能與了解一樣重要承保技巧？

And also as a follow-up, right, we're still not seeing the same thing happening on personal loans. We can see, let's say, naturally a very good performance in credit cards, personal loans are still catching up. So do you think that, that is just a matter of time or the product is just different?

而且作為後續行動，對，我們仍然沒有看到同樣的事情發生在個人貸款上。我們可以看到，比方說，自然在信用卡方面表現非常好，個人貸款仍在迎頭趕上。那麼您認為這只是時間問題還是產品不同？

Rosman, this is Youssef. Thank you for the question. So let me try to address in turn the points you raised. So I would say like when we look at our experience in credit cards and in unsecured personal loans, we see the methodology, the playbook, the governance process, the data, the tools we've developed to work just as well. Obviously, the personal loans is a lot more recent in its -- since inception than credit cards.

羅斯曼，這是優素福。感謝你的提問。那麼讓我嘗試依次解決您提出的問題。所以我想說，當我們審視我們在信用卡和無擔保個人貸款方面的經驗時，我們會看到我們開發的方法、劇本、治理流程、數據和工具同樣有效。顯然，個人貸款的出現時間比信用卡要晚得多。

But when we compare at the same point in time, we see a relatively similar level of leverage that we get from all those methodologies and process and governance we've developed. And I don't think it's a leap of faith to believe that it would extend to other categories beyond unsecured personal loans in terms of kind of the underwriting advantage it gives us.

但是當我們在同一時間點進行比較時，我們會看到我們從我們開發的所有這些方法、流程和治理中獲得的相對相似的槓桿水平。而且我認為，就它給我們帶來的承保優勢而言，它會擴展到無擔保個人貸款以外的其他類別，這並不是一種信仰的飛躍。

To your other point on willingness to pay, yes, we do see some evidence that we have a willingness to pay advantage, in particular, when we look at things like principality, customers that we've reached primary bank account relationship status with as Lago was mentioning earlier. And so that has to be a product of a lot of things, some tangible in terms of how we service those customers, some perhaps intangible having to do with brand, having to do with loyalty, having to do with NPS. And I think there's a lot of factors that go into that, but there's confidence that, that phenomenon also exists.

關於您關於支付意願的另一點，是的，我們確實看到一些證據表明我們願意支付優勢，特別是當我們查看諸如公國之類的事情時，我們已經與 Lago 達到主要銀行賬戶關係狀態的客戶前面提到過。因此，這必須是很多事情的產物，一些有形的是我們如何為這些客戶提供服務，一些可能是無形的，與品牌有關，與忠誠度有關，與 NPS 有關。我認為這其中有很多因素，但有信心，這種現像也存在。

And our next question comes from the line of Mario Pierry from BofA.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Mario Pierry。

Let me ask you a question on funding costs and deposits. I think Lago mentioned that the funding costs should stay around 80% of CDI in the next few quarters. Just wondering if this number shouldn't be lower in the longer term, given that some of the incumbent banks have funding costs of like 65% of CDI. What -- if your strategy in remunerating deposits would change in a lower rate environment because before, right, historically, you're remunerating clients at 100% of CDI.

我問你一個關於資金成本和存款的問題。我認為 Lago 提到在接下來的幾個季度中，資金成本應該保持在 CDI 的 80% 左右。只是想知道從長遠來看，這個數字是否不應該更低，因為一些現有銀行的融資成本約為 CDI 的 65%。什麼——如果你的存款回報策略會在較低的利率環境中發生變化，因為以前，對，歷史上，你以 100% 的 CDI 回報客戶。

So I don't know the reason why you think that 80% is the right number. Does it mean that you'll be willing to remunerate clients higher if rates come down? And then when I look -- you talk about your deposit base staying stable in the quarter. There's some seasonality in the fourth quarter, which we do agree on. But when I look at your deposit per client, it has been trending down. So I don't know if that is a function of the change in remuneration? What do you think explains the lower balance for clients?

所以我不知道為什麼你認為 80% 是正確的數字。這是否意味著如果利率下降，您願意為客戶提供更高的報酬？然後當我看時 - 你談論你的存款基礎在本季度保持穩定。第四季度有一些季節性，我們同意這一點。但是當我查看你們每個客戶的存款時，它一直在下降。所以我不知道這是否與薪酬變化有關？您認為客戶餘額較低的原因是什麼？

Mario, this is Lago. Thanks for your question. Let me try to take them in turn as well. So first, with respect to the cost of funding, we do expect that for the coming quarters, the cost of funding will remain at around 80% of CDI. It is -- we can be super precise on this because it largely depends on customer behavior. And we don't offer 80% of CDI per se. We basically offer combination of products, which is composed by the Money Box and the demand deposits that compounding with the customer behavior that we have observed results in and around 80% of CDI.

馬里奧，這是拉戈。謝謝你的問題。讓我也嘗試依次介紹它們。因此，首先，關於資金成本，我們確實預計在未來幾個季度，資金成本將保持在 CDI 的 80% 左右。它是 - 我們可以非常精確，因為它在很大程度上取決於客戶行為。而且我們本身不提供 80% 的 CDI。我們基本上提供產品組合，由 Money Box 和活期存款組成，結合我們觀察到的客戶行為導致 CDI 的 80% 左右。

We do expect this to remain as such. And usually in the fourth quarter of each year, there is a slight drop in the cost of funding because there is now a seasonally high inflow of deposits as we observed in the fourth quarter of 2022, so too, we expect to observe in the fourth quarter of 2023. But by and large, it should remain at about 80% of CDI throughout the next 4 quarters.

我們確實希望這種情況保持不變。通常在每年的第四季度，資金成本會略有下降，因為正如我們在 2022 年第四季度觀察到的那樣，現在存款流入呈季節性高位，因此我們預計在第四季度也會觀察到2023 年的季度。但總的來說，在接下來的 4 個季度中，它應該保持在 CDI 的 80% 左右。

We do believe that there is the opportunity for us to continuously reassess and reflect on the value proposition that we are offering to our customers with respect to their savings and investments. At this point in time, we do not have any short-term plans to actually change those features that will lead us to lower funding costs, although we do appreciate that there is a value lever there.

我們確實相信，我們有機會不斷重新評估和反思我們向客戶提供的關於他們的儲蓄和投資的價值主張。目前，我們沒有任何短期計劃來實際改變那些將導致我們降低融資成本的功能，儘管我們確實意識到那裡存在價值槓桿。

If and when we find a value proposition that will be actually be net positive to our customers, we should certainly entertain. But you should not expect any material change to the funding cost over the next 4 quarters. So I think that's the first part. The second part, we did see kind of a slight drop. I want to say of about 5% or 6% in deposits per customer in the first quarter of 2023, that is largely seasonal based on what we have seen.

如果並且當我們發現一個價值主張實際上對我們的客戶是積極的，我們當然應該娛樂。但您不應期望在接下來的 4 個季度中融資成本會發生任何重大變化。所以我認為這是第一部分。第二部分，我們確實看到了輕微的下降。我想說的是 2023 年第一季度每個客戶的存款約為 5% 或 6%，根據我們所看到的情況，這在很大程度上是季節性的。

In fact, if you look at the Brazilian market, the demand deposits of the whole system during the first quarter of 2023 dropped by about 10%. So the average demand deposit per customer of Nubank dropping by about 5%, 6%, in fact, we gained some shares. And what we have seen post the end of the first quarter of 2023, it continues -- deposits continue to behave as expected. And we do not see, as we mentioned in the prior call, any relevant impact to our inflows or outflows as a result of our having changed the remuneration of the content introduction of Money Box in the third quarter of 2022.

其實你看巴西市場，2023年一季度全系統活期存款下降了10%左右。所以 Nubank 每個客戶的平均活期存款下降了大約 5%、6%，實際上我們獲得了一些份額。我們在 2023 年第一季度末看到的情況仍在繼續——存款繼續表現如預期。正如我們在之前的電話會議中提到的那樣，我們沒有看到由於我們在 2022 年第三季度更改了 Money Box 內容引入的報酬而對我們的流入或流出產生任何相關影響。

Great, Lago. Just briefly then stay on deposits. If you can talk about the duration of the deposits and how you could change this going forward, especially as you go into longer-term products such as payroll loans?

太好了，拉戈。只是簡單地然後留在存款上。如果你能談談存款的期限，以及你如何改變這一點，特別是當你進入工資貸款等長期產品時？

No, absolutely. That is a great question. And we do expect to continue to increase the average duration of our deposits as we decrease the average duration of our credit assets. That will be largely tied to the ramp-up of our payroll loan book, and we can do so primarily through the offering of time deposits to our own retail customers.

不，絕對。這是一個很好的問題。隨著我們減少信貸資產的平均期限，我們確實希望繼續增加存款的平均期限。這在很大程度上與我們工資貸款賬簿的增加有關，我們主要可以通過向我們自己的零售客戶提供定期存款來做到這一點。

And our next question comes from the line of Rafael Frade from Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗的 Rafael Frade。

Congrats on the results. I have a follow-up on your credit card book. So you had a huge increase in the receivables paying interest, right? And this was a relevant portion of increasing the profitability of the quarter. So I just would like to understand a little more about the initiatives that you have been taking to increase, right, the receivables with interest in this portfolio? And if you think that we are close to a level that should be sustainable, some more room to go. So just trying to understand what's going on in this line?

祝賀結果。我有跟進你的信用卡簿。所以你的應收賬款利息大幅增加，對吧？這是提高本季度盈利能力的相關部分。因此，我只想了解更多有關您為增加該投資組合中有利息的應收賬款而採取的舉措？如果你認為我們已經接近可持續發展的水平，還有更多的空間。所以只是想了解這一行中發生了什麼？

Yes, absolutely, that is a great question. And in fact, I would try to draw your attention to Page 16, in which we provide the breakdown of exactly what you said, the interest earning portfolio within the credit card. And as you can observe, the nonrevolving interest-earning portion of our credit card book has grown from about 8% of the total book to 16% of the total book in a year. So a fairly relevant increase, and we are very pleased with that performance.

是的，當然，這是一個很好的問題。事實上，我想請您注意第 16 頁，其中我們提供了您所說的信用卡中的利息收入組合的細分。正如您所看到的，我們信用卡賬簿的非循環生息部分在一年內從總賬簿的 8% 左右增長到總賬簿的 16%。所以這是一個相當相關的增長，我們對這種表現感到非常滿意。

What is the source of that performance? I think we are basically managing to develop new financing products and features through which customers can actually now gain financing capabilities through their credit cards, mostly related to peaks financing and bullet financing. So those 2 features now account for the vast majority of this increase.

這種表現的來源是什麼？我認為我們基本上正在設法開發新的融資產品和功能，通過這些產品和功能，客戶現在實際上可以通過他們的信用卡獲得融資能力，主要與峰值融資和子彈融資有關。因此，這 2 個功能現在佔了這一增長的絕大部分。

And what I would highlight as well, if you also look at the interest-earning portfolio, is that while our nonrevolving interest earning portfolio went from 8% to 16%, the revolving part remained largely flat. And what we have learned over the past 4, 5 quarters is that those additional financing features has resulted in no incremental credit risk to our book, which is, I think, in a very pleasing output for us.

我還要強調的是，如果你也看看生息投資組合，當我們的非循環生息投資組合從 8% 上升到 16% 時，循環部分基本持平。我們在過去 4、5 個季度中了解到，這些額外的融資功能並未給我們的賬簿帶來任何增量信用風險，我認為這對我們來說是一個非常令人滿意的結果。

Just to understand here, what I think that's very curious is that when I look for the interest rates on credit cards, they are close to 9%, if I'm not wrong, according to Brazil Central Bank, while the personal loans have a lower rate. So I'm curious why a client is taking credit card installments instead of personal loans? And maybe part of the question you already answered because these products that probably are not available on personal loans, right? So just to understand why the client is financing through that.

只是要了解這裡，我覺得很好奇的是，當我尋找信用卡的利率時，如果我沒記錯的話，它們接近 9%，根據巴西中央銀行的說法，而個人貸款有較低的利率。所以我很好奇為什麼客戶選擇信用卡分期付款而不是個人貸款？也許您已經回答了部分問題，因為這些產品可能無法通過個人貸款獲得，對嗎？所以只是為了了解客戶為什麼通過它融資。

Yes, I think it's important to note that the interest rates of those financing features within credit cards, what I'm calling peaks financing or bullet financing, are closer to 5% to 6% per month, so much more in line with unsecured personal loans.

是的，我認為重要的是要注意信用卡中那些融資功能的利率，我稱之為峰值融資或子彈融資，每月接近 5% 至 6%，更符合無抵押個人貸款。

And our next question comes from the line of Gustavo Schroden at Bradesco.

我們的下一個問題來自 Bradesco 的 Gustavo Schroden。

Congrats on the strong results. I'd like to switch out the discussions to the operating expenses or the cost side, I mean, which costed a lot about the revenue generation. And indeed, the main beat versus our numbers here was on the operating expenses. And I'd like to understand because we finalized the evolution of especially the non-revenue-linked expenses, I'm talking about SG&A and marketing expenses, we could see a nominal decrease year-on-year and also quarter-on-quarter despite the fact that the bank is growing very fast in -- over the core.

祝賀你取得了優異的成績。我想將討論轉移到運營費用或成本方面，我的意思是，這在創收方面花費了很多。事實上，與我們這裡的數字相比，主要的打擊在於運營費用。我想知道，因為我們最終確定了非收入相關費用的演變，我說的是 SG&A 和營銷費用，我們可以看到同比和環比名義下降儘管該銀行在核心領域增長非常快。

So my question is it is sustainable to keep or to continue decreasing the non-revenue-linked expenses in the coming quarters? Or this was some adjustment that the bank did in the quarter, especially on, as I said, SG&A marketing expenses, it draws our attention in this quarter, and I think it is very important to understand the investment thesis?

所以我的問題是在未來幾個季度保持或繼續減少與收入無關的支出是否可持續？或者這是銀行在本季度所做的一些調整，特別是正如我所說的 SG&A 營銷費用，它在本季度引起了我們的注意，我認為理解投資主題非常重要？

No, absolutely, Gustavo, this is Lago. Thanks for your question. I would -- for those who have not yet seen, I would draw your attention to explanatory note #8 of our financial statements that probably bring a very detailed breakdown of those operating expenses. But I think if you look at those statements, you will realize that within operating expenses, which grew by only 12% over the period, you largely have 2 items. You have customer support and operations, which over the past 12 months, grew by 75%, and you have G&A, which basically stayed flat over the past 12 months.

不，當然，古斯塔沃，這是拉戈。謝謝你的問題。我會——對於那些還沒有看到的人，我會提請你注意我們財務報表的解釋性說明#8，它可能會非常詳細地列出這些運營費用。但我認為，如果你看一下這些報表，你就會意識到，在此期間僅增長 12% 的運營費用中，你主要有 2 個項目。你有客戶支持和運營，在過去 12 個月裡增長了 75%，你有 G&A，在過去 12 個月里基本保持不變。

And within G&A, if you -- the main things there are payroll and share-based compensation. And Gustavo, to your point, there are a few things there that are nonrecurring and a few things there that are recurring. Let me try to break them down. One of the main impacts of the largely flat or decreasing G&A is the cancellation of the contingent share award, or CSA, that took place in the second half of 2022. There was something that basically caused the company something about $70 million to $75 million per year, the elimination of which brings us no relevant savings.

在 G&A 中，如果你——主要的事情是工資單和基於股份的薪酬。古斯塔沃，就你的觀點而言，有些事情是非經常性的，有些事情是經常性的。讓我試著分解它們。 G&A 基本持平或減少的主要影響之一是取消了 2022 年下半年發生的或有股份獎勵 (CSA)。這基本上導致公司每年損失約 7000 萬至 7500 萬美元年，消除它沒有給我們帶來任何相關的節省。

That level of saving, of course, is nonrecurring. It happened from 2022 to 2023. We do not expect to see those deltas coming through over the coming years, but we do expect to continue to see the elimination of the CSA, right? Just to be clear, we're going to have no further expense with CSA over the coming years. The second level is that we basically capped headcount largely flat, if not slightly down over the past 6 to 12 months.

當然，這種儲蓄水平是非經常性的。它發生在 2022 年到 2023 年。我們不希望在未來幾年看到這些增量，但我們確實希望繼續看到 CSA 的消除，對嗎？需要明確的是，未來幾年我們將不再向 CSA 支付任何費用。第二個層次是，在過去 6 到 12 個月中，我們基本上將員工人數限制在基本持平，如果不是略有下降的話。

And that part, I think, is recurring. If you take a look at our overall cost base, between 50% to 60% of our cost base is payroll related and about 20% is technology related. We do expect that we will grow over the course of the next 18 months the headcount at a fraction of the velocity at which we grew headcount over the past 18 months. And is that sustainable? We believe this is sustainable, especially with the adoption of best-in-class processes and technologies that will materially increase the efficiency and productivity of the company overall, as we have seen over the past 12- to 24-month period.

我認為那部分是反復出現的。如果你看一下我們的整體成本基礎，我們成本基礎的 50% 到 60% 與工資相關，約 20% 與技術相關。我們確實預計，在接下來的 18 個月中，我們的員工人數將以過去 18 個月員工人數增長速度的一小部分增長。這是可持續的嗎？我們相信這是可持續的，尤其是採用一流的流程和技術，這將顯著提高公司的整體效率和生產力，正如我們在過去 12 至 24 個月期間所看到的那樣。

Okay. Okay. Very clear. Just a follow-up here, Lago. It's very clear on the G&A expenses and about the marketing expenses. It's also -- I mean, draw our attention, $19 million the first Q this year, that was much higher, for example, last year in the last quarter. It is also -- I mean, should we continue to see the bank with this lower level of marketing expenses?

好的。好的。非常清楚。只是這裡的後續行動，拉戈。 G&A 費用和營銷費用非常清楚。這也是 - 我的意思是，引起我們的注意，今年第一季度為 1900 萬美元，例如，去年最後一個季度要高得多。這也是——我的意思是，我們是否應該繼續看到營銷費用水平較低的銀行？

And also, just -- I mean, it's a soft guidance that I'm asking here regarding the percentage of total operating expenses versus the total revenue. This quarter was a 25%. Do you think that it is, I mean, a reasonable level or that should increase to something that as we saw in the past?

而且，我的意思是，我在這裡詢問的是關於總運營費用與總收入的百分比的軟指導。本季度為 25%。你認為這是一個合理的水平，還是應該增加到我們過去看到的水平？

So Gustavo, on marketing expenses, I think they are a relatively small portion of our operating expenses and they have been since the inception of the company. Most of our customer acquisition happens through MGM. So we have historically had a relatively low investment in marketing. But the 2022 numbers have also been maybe potentially inflated by the investments that we made in the World Cup, which we do not expect to see in 2023.

所以古斯塔沃，關於營銷費用，我認為它們在我們的運營費用中所佔的比例相對較小，而且自公司成立以來一直如此。我們的大部分客戶獲取都是通過米高梅進行的。因此，我們歷來在營銷方面的投資相對較低。但 2022 年的數字也可能被我們在世界杯上所做的投資誇大了，我們預計 2023 年不會出現這種情況。

So you should expect to see marketing being between 5% to 7% of our total operating expenses, as was the case in 2022 and as we expect to be the case in 2023. We don't think that the levels that we have landed in overall efficiency ratio are nonsustainable. In fact, we think that we are nowhere near the efficiency frontier. There is more efficiency to be achieved over the course of the coming quarters.

因此，您應該期望看到營銷費用占我們總運營費用的 5% 到 7%，就像 2022 年的情況和我們預計的 2023 年情況一樣。我們認為我們已經達到的水平整體效率比是不可持續的。事實上，我們認為我們離效率邊界還很遠。在接下來的幾個季度中，效率會更高。

And our next question comes from the line of Neha Agarwala from HSBC.

我們的下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Neha Agarwala。

Mostly follow-ups on the questions previously asked. So first, on the cost. So the cost to income right now is about 36%. Do you see a room for reducing it further in the short term? Or this is a good level at which you could operate? And should we -- should this increase maybe as you get your licenses in Mexico -- in Colombia, you launched more products in Mexico, should we see the cost to income increase as the new geos may require more investments upfront and monetization is going to come with a lag?

主要是跟進之前提出的問題。首先，關於成本。因此，目前的收入成本約為 36%。您認為短期內還有進一步降低的空間嗎？或者這是您可以操作的良好水平？我們是否應該 - 如果您在墨西哥獲得許可證時這種增加 - 在哥倫比亞，您在墨西哥推出了更多產品，我們是否應該看到收入成本增加，因為新的地域可能需要更多的前期投資並且貨幣化將會有滯後嗎？

And my second question is on the high-income segment. Your comments about having the highest NPS in the high-income segment was a bit surprising because there are not a lot of products to offer for the high-income segment. So what are we missing here? What are the main things which are allowing you to capture the high-income segment in your view? Is it the ultraviolet card? Is it some other offerings that you have or just the experience? Because I would imagine the requirements for the high-income segment are much more broader. They require many more products, more personal attention. So if you can shed some light on that, that would be great.

我的第二個問題是關於高收入群體。您關於在高收入群體中擁有最高 NPS 的評論有點令人驚訝，因為高收入群體沒有太多產品可供選擇。那麼我們在這裡缺少什麼？在您看來，讓您佔領高收入群體的主要因素是什麼？是紫外線卡嗎？是您擁有的一些其他產品還是只是經驗？因為我認為高收入群體的要求要廣泛得多。他們需要更多的產品，更多的個人關注。所以，如果你能闡明這一點，那就太好了。

Great, Neha. Let me try to take your first question on efficiency and then I'll ask Jag to help you with -- with your question on high income. So on efficiency, we, as you said, reached a level of 39% on a combined basis. And if you take a look on Page 7 of the earnings presentation of 37% in Brazil only. So Brazil is not surprisingly more efficient than the consolidated basis. And we do expect that there is room for additional efficiency to be achieved in both Brazil and a consolidated basis. We don't expect that 37% in Brazil or 39% at the holding company is really kind of the best-in-class that we can achieve.

太好了，尼哈。讓我試著回答你關於效率的第一個問題，然後我會請 Jag 幫助你解決你關於高收入的問題。因此，正如您所說，在效率方面，我們在綜合基礎上達到了 39% 的水平。如果你看一下巴西 37% 的盈利報告的第 7 頁。因此，巴西比綜合基礎更有效率也就不足為奇了。我們確實希望在巴西和綜合基礎上都有提高效率的空間。我們不希望巴西的 37% 或控股公司的 39% 真的是我們可以實現的同類最佳。

In fact, a lot of cost and expenses that we are incurring in Brazil and certainly in Mexico and Colombia, our cost and expenses related to products or features that are not yet generating any revenues. And once they start to generate revenues, they should continue to contribute to efficiency ratio. And in that lens, yes, I think Mexico and Colombia, we'll have to increase its operations once they become fully regulated. In fact, Mexico has already become fully regulated, and Colombia is expected to be fully regulated by the end of this year, and we are preparing all of our sources accordingly.

事實上，我們在巴西，當然還有墨西哥和哥倫比亞發生的很多成本和費用，我們的成本和費用與尚未產生任何收入的產品或功能相關。一旦他們開始產生收入，他們應該繼續為效率比率做出貢獻。從這個角度來看，是的，我認為墨西哥和哥倫比亞一旦受到全面監管，我們將不得不增加其業務。事實上，墨西哥已經全面監管，哥倫比亞有望在今年年底全面監管，我們正在相應地準備所有資源。

But I believe that the additional revenues that you're going to have in those countries will more than offset the additional cost and expenses that will have to be invested there in a manner that will not be detrimental to the overall efficiency ratio of the company. But that was the first question. I know that you also had a question on high income. Jag, would you share some thoughts there?

但我相信，您將在這些國家/地區獲得的額外收入將足以抵消必須以不損害公司整體效率比率的方式在那裡投資的額外成本和費用。但這是第一個問題。我知道您也有關於高收入的問題。 Jag，你能分享一些想法嗎？

Yes, happy to. Thank you, Lago. Great question. And let me try to address it in a couple of steps. First of all, what we have found is that when we offer products targeted at the high-income segment and as we optimize those, we certainly see improvements in NPS as we measure them product by product from that high-income segment. We have seen that with our ultraviolet credit card. We will expect to see that in the future as we launch more products targeted at that segment. We've actually talked today about, for example, the consignado product for federal employees, which actually also tends to skew high income.

是的，很高興。謝謝你，拉戈。很好的問題。讓我試著分幾個步驟來解決這個問題。首先，我們發現，當我們提供針對高收入群體的產品並優化這些產品時，我們肯定會看到 NPS 的改善，因為我們從高收入群體逐個產品衡量它們。我們已經用我們的紫外線信用卡看到了這一點。隨著我們推出更多針對該細分市場的產品，我們希望在未來看到這一點。例如，我們今天實際上談到了聯邦僱員的委託產品，它實際上也傾向於傾斜高收入。

So we'd expect that trend to continue as we go forward. The NPS measurements that we see today, however, are also related to the fact that our core products whether it's our core (inaudible) credit card product or bank account product have features and ease of use and simplicity, transparency of pricing, all of these key pieces of our value proposition that resonate with high-income customers as well as the mass market. And so that, combined with the investments we've always made historically in customer experience and customer service, are what's leading to our NPS position with the high-income customers just as it's leading to our NPS position with other segments.

因此，我們預計隨著我們的前進，這種趨勢將繼續下去。然而，我們今天看到的 NPS 測量也與我們的核心產品（無論是我們的核心（聽不清）信用卡產品還是銀行賬戶產品）具有特性、易用性和簡單性、定價透明度等所有這些相關我們價值主張的關鍵部分引起了高收入客戶和大眾市場的共鳴。因此，結合我們歷史上一直在客戶體驗和客戶服務方面進行的投資，這就是導致我們在高收入客戶中的 NPS 位置的原因，就像它導致我們在其他細分市場中的 NPS 位置一樣。

As we increasingly focus our product development efforts to build products designed specifically for high-income customers, we expect NPS with them and our traction and principality with them to further increase, but it's still relatively early days of those dedicated efforts on our part.

隨著我們越來越多地將產品開發工作重點放在專為高收入客戶設計的產品上，我們預計他們的 NPS 以及我們對他們的吸引力和主導地位將進一步增加，但我們這些專注的努力還處於相對早期的階段。

And our next question comes from the line of Domingos Falavina from JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Domingos Falavina。

Congrats on the print, very surprising costs and top line. But my question, I guess, just to shift a little bit more into when I look at the operation in Mexico, we see basically loan -- I mean ballpark number is stabilizing, right, around $650 million and -- $630 million to $640 million actually. And you didn't grow in the last month January, February, but provisions actually did come kind of similar basis before $20 million.

恭喜印刷品，非常令人驚訝的成本和收入。但我想，我的問題是，當我審視墨西哥的業務時，我們看到的基本上是貸款——我的意思是大概數字正在穩定，對，大約 6.5 億美元和——6.3 億至 6.4 億美元實際上。你在 1 月、2 月的最後一個月沒有增長，但在 2000 萬美元之前，撥備實際上確實有類似的基礎。

So I guess my question is, are you doing the same kind of provisioning levels in Mexico for expected losses in which case growth should be the main driver for that expense? So that's kind of the first kind of more accounting question. And the second one is what's your thinking process in Mexico? Do you plan on holding this stable for how long, what's the average duration of that portfolio to learn from that vintage before re-accelerating?

所以我想我的問題是，你是否在墨西哥為預期損失做同樣的準備金水平，在這種情況下，增長應該是該費用的主要驅動力？所以這是第一種更多的會計問題。第二個是你在墨西哥的思維過程是什麼？你打算保持這個穩定多長時間，在重新加速之前從那個年份學習的投資組合的平均持續時間是多少？

Dom, thank you so much for the question. So I think Mexico, we launched Mexico just a step back slightly less than 3 years ago. And Mexico has already achieved over 3.2 million, 3.3 million customers. So it has had a phenomenal growth. Last year, we became the #1 issuer of credit card in the country. And basically, Mexico is beating Brazil across every single KPI that we have. We did grow credit cards and we did kind of see a fairly steep growth in customers over the coming -- over the last weeks, primarily after the launch of Cuenta Nu, as we mentioned in this call, that reached over 500,000 customers. So we are super pleased with what we find in Mexico so far.

多姆，非常感謝你提出這個問題。所以我認為墨西哥，我們在不到 3 年前推出了墨西哥。而墨西哥已經實現了超過320萬、330萬客戶。所以它有一個驚人的增長。去年，我們成為該國排名第一的信用卡發行商。基本上，墨西哥在我們擁有的每一個 KPI 上都擊敗了巴西。我們確實增加了信用卡，我們確實看到了未來客戶數量的急劇增長——在過去幾週，主要是在 Cuenta Nu 推出之後，正如我們在本次電話會議中提到的那樣，客戶數量超過了 500,000。所以我們對目前在墨西哥的發現非常滿意。

Now with respect to provisioning, number one, you will only see the expected credit loss provisioning in the consolidated books that we do. In the local books, you will see just Mexican GAAP. You will not see the same IFRS expected credit loss provisioning that you will see. The second one is that once you look at the NPL ratios that you have in Mexico, as we are (inaudible) we usually present our results in terms of delinquency at 60-plus NPLs, whereas the banking industry in the country usually presents this as 90-plus.

現在關於準備金，第一，您只會在我們所做的合併賬簿中看到預期的信用損失準備金。在本地書籍中，您只會看到墨西哥 GAAP。您將不會看到與您將看到的相同的 IFRS 預期信用損失準備金。第二個是，一旦您查看了墨西哥的不良貸款率，就像我們（聽不清）一樣，我們通常以 60 多個不良貸款的拖欠率來呈現我們的結果，而該國的銀行業通常將其呈現為90 多歲。

So not entirely an apples-to-apples comparison. Now I think the underlying question may be what is the unit economics of the credit card in Mexico? What is the overall credit losses in Mexico? And how do we expect this portfolio to behave and to unfold over the coming quarters? We do not expect the Mexico delinquency levels to be at par with Brazil, especially in the early days of the ramp-up of this business for a few reasons.

所以不完全是同類比較。現在我認為潛在的問題可能是墨西哥信用卡的單位經濟效益是多少？墨西哥的整體信用損失是多少？我們如何預期該投資組合在未來幾個季度的表現和展開？我們預計墨西哥的拖欠率不會與巴西相當，尤其是在該業務發展初期，原因有幾個。

Number one, once we enter a country, like we do in Mexico, we systematically launch a number of foundational tests that we basically pass customer behavior and repayment profile across very different bands. The second one is that the customers in Mexico usually use credit cards primarily as a means of financing, not as a means of payments, as is the case in Brazil, and therefore, interest-bearing balance in Mexico are much higher than they are in Brazil, and we do expect that cohorts will have higher delinquency levels at some point in time.

第一，一旦我們進入一個國家，就像我們在墨西哥所做的那樣，我們會系統地啟動一些基礎測試，我們基本上通過非常不同的頻段的客戶行為和還款情況。第二個是墨西哥的客戶通常主要將信用卡作為融資手段，而不是像巴西那樣作為支付手段，因此墨西哥的生息餘額遠高於墨西哥巴西，我們確實預計在某個時間點，同類人群的拖欠率會更高。

And third, I think early stage cohorts usually have higher delinquency levels once they mature, their delinquency levels go down. So if you were to compare the delinquency levels of Mexico with delinquency in Mexico or Brazil, you will likely see higher levels now and probably higher levels even in the future. However, the unit economics of credit cards in Mexico are as compelling, if not more compelling than in Brazil.

第三，我認為早期群體通常有更高的犯罪率，一旦他們成熟，他們的犯罪率就會下降。因此，如果您將墨西哥的拖欠率與墨西哥或巴西的拖欠率進行比較，您現在可能會看到更高的水平，甚至可能在未來看到更高的水平。然而，墨西哥信用卡的單位經濟效益與巴西一樣引人注目，甚至更引人注目。

The return on assets and the return on equity that we expect to have for credit cards in Mexico are at par, if not higher, than the ones that we expect to have in Brazil. And then finally, as we basically earn more customers through Cuenta Nu, and we get more customer principality data and deposits, we do expect to continue to ramp up credit cards in that country.

我們預期墨西哥信用卡的資產回報率和股本回報率與我們預期的巴西信用卡持平，甚至更高。最後，由於我們基本上通過 Cuenta Nu 贏得了更多客戶，並且我們獲得了更多客戶主要數據和存款，我們確實希望繼續在該國家/地區增加信用卡。

Very clear, Lago. But just like as we follow the monthly data in there, usually, you will assume what about 6 months or more or less stable loan book and then you'll reaccelerate. If you were to (inaudible) earlier or something.

很清楚，拉戈。但就像我們跟踪那裡的月度數據一樣，通常，你會假設大約 6 個月或更多或更少的穩定貸款簿，然後你會重新加速。如果你要（聽不清）更早一些。

Sorry. Can you repeat the question, Dom?

對不起。你能重複這個問題嗎，Dom？

Yes. No, just like if you were to base your experience as in Brazil, as we look at this monthly data, you would expect like about a quarter or 6 months or a year of more stable loan growth. I guess my question is how long do you have to see that portfolio behavior before you get really confident again?

是的。不，就像如果你以巴西的經驗為基礎，當我們查看這個月度數據時，你會期望大約一個季度或 6 個月或一年的貸款增長更穩定。我想我的問題是，在您再次真正自信之前，您需要多長時間才能看到投資組合的行為？

No, we will be resuming growth in credit cards in Mexico throughout the second quarter and throughout the third quarter of the year. We have, by no means, slowdown in Mexico, and we expect to continue to increase our product penetration in the country.

不，我們將在整個第二季度和整個第三季度恢復墨西哥信用卡的增長。我們絕不是在墨西哥放緩，我們希望繼續增加我們在該國的產品滲透率。

And our next question comes from the line of Craig Maurer from FT Partners.

我們的下一個問題來自 FT Partners 的 Craig Maurer。

To follow up on an earlier -- the earlier questions on pursuing more high-end consumers. The question is, to what degree do you think your customer base now and then in the medium term will overlap with small business owners in Brazil? And how can you expand your product offerings to cross over into the small business market?

跟進較早的問題——較早的關於追求更多高端消費者的問題。問題是，您認為您的客戶群在中期會在多大程度上與巴西的小企業主重疊？您如何擴展您的產品供應以進入小型企業市場？

Craig, David here. Thank you for the question. So we actually have already a very significant base of small business owners. We have over 2.3 million SMEs in our base. And it's actually very much related to what you were saying. A lot of the small business owners ends up being thought internally as high income. We initially went to small business owners because our consumers where we started would tell us that it was -- they were getting really, really bad service by traditional institutions in Brazil.

克雷格，大衛在這裡。感謝你的提問。所以我們實際上已經擁有非常重要的小企業主基礎。我們的基地有超過 230 萬家中小企業。它實際上與你所說的非常相關。許多小企業主最終在內部被認為是高收入。我們最初去找小企業主，因為我們開始的地方的消費者會告訴我們——他們從巴西的傳統機構那裡得到的服務真的非常糟糕。

So we saw an opportunity there and started cross-selling the small business product to them. These are the businesses that has a lot of potential. We probably haven't given it as much focus as we should, but we see significant growth ahead. We have still a very reduced product portfolio where we have a savings account, a detailed account, and we're starting to roll out a credit card product for small business owners. And we see really significant -- really great product market fit. We've launched around also payments receiving. So overall, very excited about the opportunity there.

所以我們在那裡看到了機會，並開始向他們交叉銷售小型企業產品。這些是具有很大潛力的業務。我們可能沒有給予它應有的關注，但我們看到了未來的顯著增長。我們的產品組合仍然非常少，我們有一個儲蓄賬戶，一個詳細的賬戶，我們開始為小企業主推出信用卡產品。我們看到非常重要 - 非常適合產品市場。我們還推出了收款服務。總的來說，對那裡的機會感到非常興奮。

And this concludes the Q&A session of the call. I would like to thank you all for participating in this session today and learn more about our path of growth and profitability. I will welcome you to access our Investor Relations website and follow up with us if there are any pending points. Thank you very much for being with us today.

電話的問答環節到此結束。我要感謝大家參加今天的這次會議，並更多地了解我們的增長和盈利之路。歡迎您訪問我們的投資者關係網站，如果有任何懸而未決的問題，請與我們聯繫。非常感謝你今天和我們在一起。

The Nu Holdings conference call has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Nu Holdings 電話會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連接。