Nu Holdings Ltd (NU) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nu Holdings conference call to discuss the results for the second quarter of 2023. A slide presentation is accompanying today's webcast, which is available in Nu Investor Relations website, www.investors.nu in English and www.investidores.nu in Portuguese. This conference is being recorded, and the replay can also be accessed on the company's IR website.

女士們、先生們，下午好。歡迎參加 Nu Holdings 電話會議，討論 2023 年第二季度的業績。今天的網絡廣播附帶幻燈片演示，可在 Nu 投資者關係網站、英語 www.investors.nu 和葡萄牙語 www.investidores.nu 上觀看。本次會議正在錄製中，您也可以在公司的 IR 網站上觀看重播。

This call is also available in Portuguese. (Operator Instructions) (foreign language) (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer at Nu Holdings. Mr. Friedemann, you may proceed.

此電話也提供葡萄牙語服務。 （操作員指示）（外語）（操作員指示） 我現在想將電話轉給 Nu Holdings 投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。弗里德曼先生，您可以繼續了。

Thank you very much, operator, and thank you all for joining our earnings call today. If you have not seen our earnings release, A copy is posted in the Results Center section of our Investor Relations website. With me on today's call are David Velez, our Founder, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman; Youssef Lahrech, our President and Chief Operating Officer; and Guilherme Lago, our Chief Financial Officer.

非常感謝您，運營商，也感謝大家參加我們今天的財報電話會議。如果您還沒有看到我們的收益發布，我們的投資者關係網站的結果中心部分會發布一份副本。與我一起參加今天電話會議的有我們的創始人、首席執行官兼董事長 David Velez； Youssef Lahrech，我們的總裁兼首席運營官；以及我們的首席財務官 Guilherme Lago。

Throughout this conference call, we will be presenting non-IFRS financial information, including adjusted net income. These are important financial measures for the company but are not financial measures as defined by IFRS. Reconciliations of the company's non-IFRS financial information to the IFRS financial information are available in our earnings press release.

在整個電話會議中，我們將介紹非國際財務報告準則的財務信息，包括調整後的淨利潤。這些是公司的重要財務指標，但不是 IFRS 定義的財務指標。公司的非國際財務報告準則財務信息與國際財務報告準則財務信息的調節表可在我們的收益新聞稿中找到。

Unless noted otherwise, all growth rates are on a year-over-year FX neutral basis. I would also like to remind everyone that today's discussion might include forward-looking statements which are not guarantees of future performance, and therefore, you should not put undue reliance on them. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties and and could cause actual results to differ materially from the company's expectations. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in the company's earnings press release.

除非另有說明，所有增長率均以外匯中性為基礎計算。我還想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述並不是對未來業績的保證，因此，您不應過分依賴它們。這些陳述面臨許多風險和不確定性，並可能導致實際結果與公司的預期存在重大差異。請參閱公司財報新聞稿中披露的前瞻性聲明。

Today, our Founder, Chairman and CEO, David Velez, will discuss the main highlights of our second quarter 2023 results and provide an overview of our operations. Subsequently, Guilherme Lago, our CFO, and Youssef Lahrech, our President and COO, will take you through our financial and operating performance for the quarter, after which time we will be happy to take your questions.

今天，我們的創始人、董事長兼首席執行官 David Velez 將討論我們 2023 年第二季度業績的主要亮點，並概述我們的運營情況。隨後，我們的首席財務官 Guilherme Lago 和總裁兼首席運營官 Youssef Lahrech 將向您介紹我們本季度的財務和運營業績，之後我們將很樂意回答您的問題。

Now I would like to turn the call over to David. David, please go ahead.

現在我想把電話轉給大衛。大衛，請繼續。

Thank you, Jorg. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for being with us today. For the financial sector in Latin America has continued to face challenging conditions over the past quarter. Nu Holding's management maintained its positive trajectory with operating trends showing resilience and further decoupling from the other markets.

謝謝你，約格。大家晚上好，感謝你們今天和我們在一起。拉丁美洲的金融業在過去一個季度繼續面臨充滿挑戰的狀況。 Nu Holding 的管理層保持了積極的發展軌跡，經營趨勢顯示出韌性，並進一步與其他市場脫鉤。

In Q2 '23, once again, we achieved strong growth and increased profitability while maintaining healthy asset quality. We continue to be extremely focused and committed to strong execution on our core priorities, while also maintaining significant investment on future growth opportunities.

在 2023 年第二季度，我們再次實現了強勁增長並提高了盈利能力，同時保持了健康的資產質量。我們繼續高度專注並致力於強有力地執行我們的核心優先事項，同時也保持對未來增長機會的大量投資。

Turning to the main highlights of the quarter. We continue to grow customers at a strong pace ending the quarter with 83.7 million clients. Once again, net adds were very robust in Brazil and approximately 1.5 million customers per month. We also resumed growth in Mexico and expect an acceleration in the coming quarters as Cuenta Nu continues to be rolled out. Most of the Cuenta Nu customers added this quarter still came via cross-selling from credit cards.

轉向本季度的主要亮點。我們繼續以強勁的速度增長客戶，截至本季度，客戶數量達到 8370 萬。巴西的淨新增客戶再次非常強勁，每月約有 150 萬客戶。我們還在墨西哥恢復了增長，並預計隨著 Cuenta Nu 的繼續推出，未來幾個季度將加速增長。本季度添加的大多數 Cuenta Nu 客戶仍然來自信用卡交叉銷售。

Our business model continues to compound growth and profitability. Revenues reached $1.9 billion in the second quarter, expanding 60% year-over-year. Our gross profit amounted to $782 million, 113% year-over-year increase, while our gross margin expanded again to 42% this quarter, consolidating the recovery initiated last year. Sequential gross margin expansion, alongside ongoing efficiency improvements drove a substantial increase in net income, which reached $224.9 million or a 53% quarter-over-quarter growth rate.

我們的商業模式繼續複合增長和盈利能力。第二季度收入達到 19 億美元，同比增長 60%。我們的毛利潤達到 7.82 億美元，同比增長 113%，而本季度毛利率再次擴大至 42%，鞏固了去年開始的複蘇。毛利率的連續增長以及持續的效率提高推動淨利潤大幅增長，達到 2.249 億美元，環比增長率為 53%。

Adjusted net income reached $262.7 million, reflecting a 39% quarter-over-quarter increase.

調整後淨利潤達到 2.627 億美元，環比增長 39%。

These slides provide a high-level overview of our recent financial performance trends over the past 2 years, demonstrating our capacity to consistently expand both our customer base and revenues while compounding profits. During this brief period, Nu accomplished a significant milestone by doubling the number of customers from 42 million in mid-2021 to 84 million at the end of the second quarter of 2023.

這些幻燈片對我們過去兩年的財務業績趨勢進行了高度概述，展示了我們在實現利潤複合增長的同時不斷擴大客戶群和收入的能力。在這段短暫的時間內，Nu 實現了一個重要的里程碑，客戶數量從 2021 年中期的 4200 萬增加了一倍，到 2023 年第二季度末達到 8400 萬。

In addition, we surpassed 80 million customers in Brazil in July, establishing ourselves as the fourth biggest financial institution in the country by number of customers.

此外，7月份我們在巴西的客戶數量突破了8000萬，成為該國客戶數量第四大的金融機構。

The strong growth for our customer base linked to the increasing cross-sell and upsell opportunities suggested by the high engagement of our platform resulted in our quarterly revenues multiplying by more than 5x and in only 2 years on an FX-neutral basis, a triple-digit revenue CAGR over this period.

我們的客戶群強勁增長，加上我們平台的高參與度所帶來的交叉銷售和追加銷售機會的增加，導致我們的季度收入翻了5 倍以上，並且在外匯中性的基礎上，僅2年內就實現了三倍增長。在此期間的數字收入複合年增長率。

The next chart of this slide illustrates our resilient underwriting capabilities. Quarterly gross profit, defined by total revenues deducted by funding costs, transactional expenses and credit loss allowances increased by almost 5x in the period, with gross profit margins expanding accordingly, even though credit delinquency has increased over the past 12 months and despite our conservative expected credit loss provision.

本幻燈片的下一張圖表展示了我們富有彈性的承保能力。儘管信貸拖欠率在過去12 個月中有所增加，並且儘管我們保守預期，但季度毛利潤（按扣除融資成本、交易費用和信貸損失準備金後的總收入定義）增長了近5 倍，毛利率也相應擴大。信用損失準備金。

Lastly, all of the aforementioned drivers, combined with the strong operating leverage of our platform and the initial maturation of our early products in Brazil has led to a substantial acceleration in net income growth, particularly evident in this chart on the right over the past 3 quarters. We expect this compounded effect to continue in the coming periods offering a valuable combination of growth with enhanced profitability in our platform.

最後，所有上述驅動因素，加上我們平台的強大運營槓桿以及我們在巴西的早期產品的初步成熟，導致淨利潤增長大幅加速，在過去 3 年的右圖中尤其明顯宿舍。我們預計這種複合效應將在未來一段時間內持續下去，為我們的平台帶來增長和盈利能力增強的寶貴結合。

As we have previously noted, Nu's inception in 2013 revolved around the concept of unbundling financial services. However, today, our most significant business opportunities line the rebounding of financial services by building a diversified multiproduct, multisegment and multi-country portfolio of business. As shown in this slide, even our adjacent businesses have successfully garnered 1 million customers, demonstrating our remarkable cross-sell capacity. As we will discuss ahead in this presentation, we believe other critical launches taking place this year will continue to help us earn the right to become primary banking providers of more and more customers supporting our growth and profitability of Flywheel.

正如我們之前指出的，Nu 於 2013 年成立，其核心理念是分拆金融服務。然而，今天，我們最重要的商機是通過建立多元化的多產品、多細分市場和多國家的業務組合來實現金融服務的反彈。正如這張幻燈片所示，我們的相鄰業務也成功獲得了 100 萬客戶，展示了我們卓越的交叉銷售能力。正如我們將在本次演講中討論的那樣，我們相信今年發生的其他重要發布將繼續幫助我們贏得成為越來越多客戶的主要銀行服務提供商的權利，支持我們 Flywheel 的增長和盈利。

Now turning to our profitability. I'd like to highlight the evolution of the key financial metrics we presented over the past quarters. From this quarter on, we will focus only on the numbers of our holding company, as we understand that our Brazilian operations are already well understood. The momentum continued into the second quarter, as you can see by the numbers on this slide. As our 3 geos continue to scale and benefit from the inherent operating leverage of our model, where holding companies now translating its potential into profits.

現在轉向我們的盈利能力。我想強調一下我們在過去幾個季度提出的關鍵財務指標的演變。從本季度開始，我們將只關注控股公司的數據，因為我們知道我們的巴西業務已經得到充分了解。正如您從這張幻燈片上的數字所看到的那樣，這種勢頭持續到了第二季度。隨著我們的 3 個地理區域不斷擴大規模並受益於我們模型的固有運營槓桿，控股公司現在將其潛力轉化為利潤。

Nu Holdings recorded an impressive adjusted net income of $263 million in the second quarter, representing an adjusted annualized ROE of 19%. These current levels of profitability already position us on par with many traditional incumbent banks in the Latin American region, even though Mexico and Colombia are still in the early investing stages. Even more remarkable, we achieved these results while maintaining regulatory capital ratios of 20.2% in Brazil and 42.2% in Mexico, significantly above the minimum required of 10.5% in both countries. In addition to the capital in our subsidiaries, it's important to note that our excess cash in the holding level of $2.4 billion means that we're extremely well capitalized to deliver on our expected growth ahead.

Nu Holdings 第二季度調整後淨利潤達到令人印象深刻的 2.63 億美元，調整後年化 ROE 為 19%。儘管墨西哥和哥倫比亞仍處於早期投資階段，但目前的盈利水平已經使我們與拉丁美洲地區許多傳統的現有銀行持平。更引人注目的是，我們在取得這些成果的同時，巴西和墨西哥的監管資本比率分別維持在 20.2% 和 42.2%，遠高於兩國 10.5% 的最低要求。除了我們子公司的資本之外，值得注意的是，我們持有的 24 億美元的超額現金意味著我們擁有非常充足的資本來實現未來的預期增長。

Finally, it is important to emphasize that we're delivering these sound levels of profitability despite significant investments in future products and geographies as well as our robust 60% year-on-year revenue growth rate, which few financial institutions at scale are able to show. As seen, once more we're very excited with the momentum of the business. And now I'd like to pass it over to our CFO, Guilherme Lago, who will walk you through our numbers in detail. Go ahead, Lago. Thank you.

最後，需要強調的是，儘管我們對未來產品和地區進行了大量投資，並且我們的收入同比增長率高達60%，但很少有大規模金融機構能夠做到這一點，但我們仍實現了良好的盈利水平。展示。正如所見，我們再次對業務的發展勢頭感到非常興奮。現在我想將其交給我們的首席財務官 Guilherme Lago，他將向您詳細介紹我們的數據。繼續吧，拉戈。謝謝。

Thank you, David, and good evening, everyone. As David noted, we delivered another set of strong operating and financial KPIs, driven by our simple, powerful value-generating formula. First, consistently growing our customer base across our 3 geos and rapidly converting them into active ones.

謝謝大衛，大家晚上好。正如 David 指出的，在我們簡單、強大的價值生成公式的推動下，我們交付了另一套強大的運營和財務 KPI。首先，持續擴大我們在 3 個地理區域的客戶群，並迅速將其轉化為活躍客戶。

Second, increasing average revenue per active customer, or ARPAC, by leveraging our cross-selling and upselling capabilities;

其次，通過利用我們的交叉銷售和追加銷售能力，增加每個活躍客戶的平均收入（ARPAC）；

And third, delivering sustainable growth while maintaining one of the lowest operating costs in the industry.

第三，實現可持續增長，同時保持行業運營成本最低之一。

Now let's look at the second quarter results to see once more how well these 3 elements keep generating value.

現在讓我們看看第二季度的業績，再次看看這三個要素如何持續創造價值。

Starting with our customer base, which expanded by 28% year-on-year as we added 4.6 million new customers, reaching a total of 83.7 million customers at quarter end. In Brazil, monthly net adds continue at a level of about 1.5 million customers achieved mainly through organic channels with very low customer acquisition costs. We are now the fourth largest financial institution in the country in a number of customers according to the Brazilian Central Bank.

首先是我們的客戶群，我們增加了 460 萬新客戶，同比增長 28%，截至季度末客戶總數達到 8,370 萬。在巴西，每月淨新增客戶繼續保持在約 150 萬客戶的水平，主要是通過客戶獲取成本極低的有機渠道實現的。根據巴西中央銀行的數據，我們現在是該國客戶數量第四大的金融機構。

As noted in our prior call, we have been achieving faster and sustained growth rates in Mexico since the launch of our digital savings account, Cuenta Nu. We have reached the mark of more than 1 million customers in less than 1 month after its launch in May of this year. In Colombia, we already have 700,000 customers, and we expect to grow even more after the launch of our savings account in the country planned for the end of this year. Active customers increased 32% year-over-year, with the monthly activity rate, posting another consecutive quarterly increase reaching 82.2%, up from 80.2% a year ago. We believe this positive outcome speaks to Nu's ability to continue growing our ecosystem while driving higher customer engagement.

正如我們在之前的電話會議中所指出的，自推出數字儲蓄賬戶 Cuenta Nu 以來，我們在墨西哥實現了更快、更持續的增長率。自今年5月推出以來，我們在不到1個月的時間內就達到了超過100萬客戶的目標。在哥倫比亞，我們已經擁有 700,000 名客戶，預計今年年底在該國推出儲蓄賬戶後，客戶數量將進一步增長。活躍客戶同比增長32%，月活躍率再次連續季度增長，達到82.2%，高於去年同期的80.2%。我們相信，這一積極成果表明 Nu 有能力繼續發展我們的生態系統，同時推動更高的客戶參與度。

Moving to our second pillar, which is revenue expansion. As shown on the left chart, nearly 60% of our active customers our already primary banking relationship customers, which represents the percentage of our active customers who transfer out over 50% of their post-tax income on a monthly basis. In general, the more customers use Nu as their primary bank, the greater the number of products they use, driving successive increases in the monthly ARPAC they generate.

轉向我們的第二個支柱，即收入擴張。如左圖所示，我們的活躍客戶中有近60%已經是主​​要銀行關係客戶，這代表我們的活躍客戶每月轉出超過50%稅後收入的百分比。一般來說，使用 Nu 作為主要銀行的客戶越多，他們使用的產品數量就越多，從而推動他們每月產生的 ARPAC 持續增長。

The second chart is our product cross-sell chart, which shows how we have accelerated the pace at which our customers use our products. As we launch new products, we are successfully cross-selling them to our customer base and earning the rights to become their primary bank.

第二張圖表是我們的產品交叉銷售圖表，它顯示了我們如何加快客戶使用我們產品的速度。當我們推出新產品時，我們成功地將它們交叉銷售給我們的客戶群，並贏得了成為他們的主要銀行的權利。

Lastly, the third chart is our ARPAC chart. The more we engage our customers and the faster we increase our cross-sell and upsell capabilities, the more sustainable the monetization of our expanding customer base becomes.

最後，第三張圖表是我們的 ARPAC 圖表。我們與客戶的互動越多，交叉銷售和追加銷售能力的提高速度越快，我們不斷擴大的客戶群的貨幣化就越可持續。

This effect can be observed again this quarter as our monthly ARPAC reached a new high of $9.30. The monthly ARPACs of our more mature cohorts are already at $24. Higher ARPAC led to another quarter of solid revenue growth, as shown in the next slide.

本季度我們可以再次觀察到這種效應，我們的每月 ARPAC 達到 9.30 美元的新高。我們更成熟的群體的每月 ARPAC 已經是 24 美元。更高的 ARPAC 帶來了又一個季度的穩健收入增長，如下一張幻燈片所示。

Monthly ARPAC continued its steady sequential growth trend expanding 18% year-over-year on an FX-neutral basis. We are confident that there is still untapped potential for further ARPAC growth, bringing us closer to realizing our full ARPAC potential. ARPAC growth, along with sustained expansion of our customer base, resulted in a 60% year-over-year increase in revenue on an FX-neutral basis, reaching a new record high of $1.9 billion.

每月 ARPAC 繼續保持穩定的連續增長趨勢，在匯率中性的基礎上同比增長 18%。我們相信，ARPAC 的進一步增長仍有尚未開發的潛力，使我們更接近實現 ARPAC 的全部潛力。 ARPAC 的增長以及我們客戶群的持續擴大，導致在匯率中性的基礎上收入同比增長 60%，達到 19 億美元的新紀錄。

Moving to our cards business. Purchase volumes increased to $26.3 billion, up 30% year-over-year on an FX-neutral basis. Growth was mainly driven by successful product upsell and cross-sell strategies along with higher customer engagement. The right-hand chart displays how purchase volumes increase as cohorts age. Older cohorts consistently purchased higher volumes. It's worth highlighting that newer cohorts appear to grow more slowly than more mature cohorts due to 2 factors: number one, at the spirit in scale as these newer cohorts account for almost 20x more customers than older cohorts.

轉向我們的信用卡業務。採購量增至 263 億美元，在匯率中性的基礎上同比增長 30%。增長主要得益於成功的產品追加銷售和交叉銷售策略以及更高的客戶參與度。右側圖表顯示了購買量如何隨著群體年齡的增長而增加。年齡較大的人群始終購買更多的商品。值得強調的是，由於兩個因素，較新的群體似乎比較成熟的群體增長得更慢：第一，在規模上，因為這些新群體的客戶數量幾乎是較老群體的 20 倍。

Number two, newer cohorts have at least initially a lower credit card penetration using debit only, which usually implies lower ticket sizes. Our market share in terms of purchase volume is at approximately 13.9% of the industry's total with debit cards at 14.5% and credit cards at 13.6%. We are confident that we can further increase our shares in the future given our steady new customer acquisition and the maturation of their relationships with us.

第二，較新的人群至少在最初只使用借記卡的信用卡普及率較低，這通常意味著票據金額較低。我們的購買量市場份額約為行業總量的13.9%，其中藉記卡為14.5%，信用卡為13.6%。鑑於我們穩定的新客戶獲取以及他們與我們的關係的成熟，我們有信心在未來進一步增加我們的份額。

Our consumer finance portfolio composed of credit cards and personal loans reached $14.8 billion, up 48% year-over-year. Total credit card loans maintained their growth trend, increasing 54% year-over-year to $12 billion as we continue to add new customers to our ecosystem while keeping our low and grow credit expansion approach. However, the highlight this quarter is the lending portfolio, which increased 33% year-over-year to $2.8 billion. Lending cohorts continued to perform better than expected, giving us the confidence to increase the originations once again.

我們的信用卡和個人貸款組成的消費金融組合達到148億美元，同比增長48%。隨著我們繼續向我們的生態系統添加新客戶，同時保持低增長的信貸擴張方式，信用卡貸款總額保持增長趨勢，同比增長 54%，達到 120 億美元。然而，本季度的亮點是貸款組合，同比增長 33% 至 28 億美元。貸款群體的表現繼續好於預期，讓我們有信心再次增加貸款發放量。

Let's now move on to the breakdown of interest-earning loans in our credit card portfolio. As we have previously discussed in our earnings calls, our focus remains on increasing the share of interest-earning credit card loans. Our interest-earning installment balance continue to expand and now makes up a record high 19% of our total credit card loan book. Conversely, revolving receivables was kept at 7% of total credit card receivables for the fourth consecutive quarter.

現在讓我們繼續分析信用卡投資組合中的生息貸款。正如我們之前在財報電話會議中討論的那樣，我們的重點仍然是增加生息信用卡貸款的份額。我們的生息分期餘額繼續擴大，目前佔信用卡貸款總額的19%，創歷史新高。相反，循環應收賬款連續第四個季度保持在信用卡應收賬款總額的7%。

We believe interest-earning installments have attractive risk-adjusted rates of returns that allow us to further monetize our credit card business. as our lending portfolio continues to show strong resilience and a better-than-expected performance, we have once again increased our risk appetite and origination levels. This quarter, loan origination was up 53% year-over-year to BRL 7.3 billion.

我們相信，生息分期付款具有有吸引力的風險調整回報率，使我們能夠進一步將信用卡業務貨幣化。隨著我們的貸款組合繼續表現出強大的韌性和好於預期的表現，我們再次提高了風險偏好和發放水平。本季度貸款發放量同比增長 53%，達到 73 億雷亞爾。

The performance of our personal loans cohort improved over the last several months giving us the conviction necessary to increase loan originations. As our portfolio continues to show strong credit resilience, we progressively grow within our risk appetite, seeking to deploy capital profitably and consistently. The launch of public payroll lending complements this strategy and reinforces the opportunities for growth we have ahead. We are confident in our ability to continue to drive attractive growth in lending. This belief is supported by our large customer portfolio, our best-in-class underwriting platform, our strong capital base and our ample liquidity position.

我們的個人貸款群體的表現在過去幾個月中有所改善，這使我們有必要增加貸款發放。隨著我們的投資組合繼續表現出強大的信用彈性，我們在風險偏好範圍內逐步增長，尋求持續盈利的資本配置。公共工資貸款的推出補充了這一戰略，並增強了我們未來的增長機會。我們對繼續推動貸款有吸引力的增長的能力充滿信心。這一信念得到了我們龐大的客戶群、一流的承保平台、強大的資本基礎和充足的流動性頭寸的支持。

Moving on to funding. Total deposits expanded 23% year-over-year to $18 billion this quarter as we advance on our goal of building a robust local currency retail deposit franchise to fund the majority of our consumer finance operations. Our loan-to-deposit ratio increased to 35%, up from 33% last quarter as we continue to optimize our balance sheet. In line with our expectations, our cost of funding in Brazil was at 80% of the interbank deposit rate in the country, demonstrating our progress in leveraging the value of our robust liability franchise.

繼續融資。本季度存款總額同比增長 23% 至 180 億美元，因為我們正在推進建立強大的本幣零售存款業務以為大部分消費金融業務提供資金的目標。隨著我們繼續優化資產負債表，我們的貸存比率從上季度的 33% 上升至 35%。與我們的預期一致，我們在巴西的融資成本為該國銀行同業存款利率的 80%，這表明我們在利用強大的負債業務價值方面取得了進展。

Just 1 month after the public launch of Cuenta Nu in Mexico, it hit an impressive milestone of 1 million customers. At the close of the second quarter of 2023, Cuenta Nu accounted for 1.3 million customers and received total deposits of more than MXN 1.5 billion, equivalent to $90 million with a cost of funding lower than 80% of the local interbank rate and significantly below our current cost of funding in Mexico.

Cuenta Nu 在墨西哥公開推出後僅 1 個月，就達到了 100 萬客戶的令人印象深刻的里程碑。截至2023 年第二季度末，Cuenta Nu 擁有130 萬客戶，收到的存款總額超過15 億墨西哥比索，相當於9,000 萬美元，融資成本低於當地銀行同業拆息的80%，也遠低於我們的預期。墨西哥目前的融資成本。

We believe our value proposition has been well received leading to a steady increase in new customers each month. This has contributed to further strengthen our deposit franchise in Latin America. We believe the combination of the continued growth of our credit card and lending portfolios, together with the improvement of our funding costs have contributed to the expansion of our net interest income, or NII, and our net interest margins or NIM to new record high levels. Our NII gain another digit this quarter, reaching $1 billion which represents yet another strong growth of 133% year-over-year, resulting in an increase of 260 basis points in our net interest margin quarter-over-quarter.

我們相信我們的價值主張受到了好評，導致每個月新客戶的數量穩步增加。這有助於進一步加強我們在拉丁美洲的存款業務。我們相信，信用卡和貸款組合的持續增長，加上融資成本的改善，共同推動了我們的淨利息收入（NII）和淨息差（NIM）擴大到新的歷史新高水平。我們的 NII 本季度再創新高，達到 10 億美元，同比再次強勁增長 133%，導致我們的淨息差環比增長 260 個基點。

Now focusing on the last pillar of our strategy, maintaining a low cost to serve. We strongly believe that one of our platform's most relevant competitive advantages is low cost to serve. In the second quarter of 2023, our cost to serve per active customer remained unchanged year-over-year at $0.80, while ARPAC increased by 18% underscoring the strong operating leverage of our business model. As we stated in prior quarters, our aim is to keep our cost to serve at or below the $1 level, as we believe our scale provides us with significant operating leverage and bargaining power with our suppliers.

現在專注於我們戰略的最後一個支柱，即保持低成本服務。我們堅信，我們平台最相關的競爭優勢之一是服務成本低。 2023 年第二季度，我們每個活躍客戶的服務成本與去年同期相比保持不變，為 0.80 美元，而 ARPAC 增長了 18%，凸顯了我們業務模式的強大運營槓桿。正如我們在前幾個季度所述，我們的目標是將服務成本保持在 1 美元或以下的水平，因為我們相信我們的規模為我們提供了重要的運營槓桿和與供應商的議價能力。

Moving down the P&L. Gross profit reached a quarterly record high of $782 million, up 113% year-over-year. Our gross profit margin reached 41.8%, more than 10 percentage points higher year-over-year, consolidating the acceleration in the pace of expansion started in the third quarter of 2022. We were able to achieve this result despite the fact that we had a higher level of provisions in this quarter, resulting from the expansion of the originations of our lending portfolio as we upfront credit loss provisions.

損益表向下移動。毛利潤達到 7.82 億美元，創季度歷史新高，同比增長 113%。我們的毛利率達到 41.8%，同比增長超過 10 個百分點，鞏固了 2022 年第三季度開始的擴張步伐的加速。儘管我們有本季度撥備水平較高，這是由於我們在預付信用損失撥備時擴大了貸款組合的來源。

Operating leverage is a key element of our strategy. By further increase in revenues and maintaining a low-cost operating platform, we have boosted profitability. As shown on this chart, we have improved our efficiency ratio over time. In the second quarter, it reached another all-time low of 35.4% or 29.2%, excluding share-based compensation, improving for the sixth consecutive quarter. This level of efficiency already ranks Nu Holdings as one of the most efficient companies in Latin America.

運營槓桿是我們戰略的關鍵要素。通過進一步增加收入和維持低成本運營平台，我們提高了盈利能力。如此圖所示，隨著時間的推移，我們的效率得到了提高。第二季度，該比率再創歷史新低，為 35.4% 或 29.2%（不包括股權激勵），連續第六個季度有所改善。這種效率水平已使 Nu Holdings 成為拉丁美洲最高效的公司之一。

We expect to capture additional operating leverage as our scale increases through the continued expansion of our customer base, the upsell and cross-sell of our products and the launch of new features. Together with improved results in our new geos of Mexico and Colombia, which still operate with losses.

隨著我們規模的擴大，我們希望通過客戶群的持續擴大、產品的追加銷售和交叉銷售以及新功能的推出來獲得額外的運營槓桿。加上墨西哥和哥倫比亞這兩個新地區的業績有所改善，但這些地區仍處於虧損狀態。

Lastly, we continue to drive increased profitability delivering adjusted net income of $263 million and net income of $225 million. These positive results confirm the effectiveness of our strategy and business model. While we are very pleased with the results we have achieved so far, let me reinforce that we manage our business with a view towards long-term value creation. This can require additional investments in the short term aimed at unlocking long-term value creation opportunities.

最後，我們繼續提高盈利能力，實現調整後淨利潤 2.63 億美元和 2.25 億美元。這些積極的結果證實了我們的戰略和商業模式的有效性。雖然我們對迄今為止所取得的成果感到非常滿意，但請允許我強調，我們以創造長期價值為目標來管理我們的業務。這可能需要短期額外投資，以釋放長期價值創造機會。

To conclude the review of our performance this quarter, let me recap the sustainable advantages across our 4 cost pillars.

為了結束對本季度業績的回顧，讓我回顧一下我們的 4 個成本支柱的可持續優勢。

Number one, on cost to acquire, we added almost 5 million customers in the quarter, while maintaining one of the lowest customer acquisition costs among consumer fintechs and banks globally.

第一，在獲取成本方面，我們在本季度增加了近 500 萬客戶，同時保持了全球消費金融科技和銀行中客戶獲取成本最低的之一。

Number two, on cost to serve, our cost to serve remain below the $1 level, which we estimate as being 85% lower than those of incumbents.

第二，在服務成本方面，我們的服務成本仍然低於 1 美元的水平，我們估計比現有企業低 85%。

Number three, on cost of risk, we successfully managed the risk of our consumer finance portfolio, aiming at a very challenging backdrop and continue to outperform competitors when comparing apples-to-apples. Youssef will provide more details on this topic shortly.

第三，在風險成本方面，我們成功地管理了消費金融投資組合的風險，瞄準了一個非常具有挑戰性的背景，並在同類比較中繼續優於競爭對手。 Youssef 將很快提供有關此主題的更多詳細信息。

And number four, in cost of funding, we maintain our cost of funding at the level of 80% of CDI as we began to unlock the potential of our retail deposit franchise, closing the negative gap we had against incumbent banks and widening the positive gap against consumer fintechs.

第四，在融資成本方面，隨著我們開始釋放零售存款業務的潛力，縮小我們與現有銀行的負差距並擴大正差距，我們將融資成本維持在 CDI 的 80% 水平反對消費者金融科技。

We are very excited about what we achieved this quarter, and we are confident in our ability to develop and scale best-in-class products, expand internationally and continue to operate at low costs.

我們對本季度取得的成就感到非常興奮，並且對我們開發和擴展一流產品、國際擴張以及繼續以低成本運營的能力充滿信心。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Youssef, our President and Chief Operating Officer, who will walk you through some of the highlights of our asset quality.

現在我想將電話轉給我們的總裁兼首席運營官尤瑟夫，他將向您介紹我們資產質量的一些亮點。

Thank you, Lago, and good evening to you all. Once again, let me take you through some of the key indicators of asset quality and credit portfolio held for the second quarter of 2023. Let's start with the NPL trends. Overall, our leading indicator NPL 15 to 90 improved slightly over the last quarter, decreasing by 10 basis points to 4.3%, in line with our expectations. Part of that drop was driven by the improvement in the performance of our personal loan cohorts as mentioned earlier.

謝謝你，拉戈，祝大家晚上好。我再次帶大家了解一下2023年第二季度資產質量和信貸組合的一些關鍵指標。首先我們先從不良貸款趨勢開始。總體而言，我們的領先指標不良貸款 15 至 90 較上季度略有改善，下降 10 個基點至 4.3%，符合我們的預期。如前所述，這一下降的部分原因是我們個人貸款群體績效的改善。

The 90-plus NPL ratio increased as expected from 5.5% to 5.9%. As in past quarters, this continues to be driven by the stacking behavior of loans moving through the delinquency buckets, as 90-plus is more of a stock rather than a flow metric. And like in past quarters, we did not sell any credit receivables, which would have otherwise artificially decreased NPL rates by virtue of the purging effect of asset sales. Renegotiations for their part remained at around 9% of the book this quarter. And nearly half of those renegotiations came from loans that were current and not passed through at the time of renegotiation.

90後以上不良貸款率符合預期，從5.5%上升至5.9%。與過去幾個季度一樣，這仍然是由拖欠貸款的堆積行為推動的，因為 90 歲以上更多的是一個存量指標，而不是一個流量指標。與過去幾個季度一樣，我們沒有出售任何信用應收賬款，否則，這會憑藉資產出售的淨化效應人為降低不良貸款率。本季度，重新談判仍佔總量的 9% 左右。其中近一半的重新談判來自重新談判時尚未通過的當前貸款。

Turning to the performance of our credit card portfolio against the industry. This slide shows the time series of NPLs by income band. With the purple lines representing new and the gray lines representing the industry. We continue to see our NPLs outperforming the industry on a like-for-like basis. And for lower income bands, our comparative advantage remains even more pronounced.

轉向我們信用卡投資組合相對於行業的表現。這張幻燈片顯示了按收入範圍劃分的不良貸款的時間序列。紫色線代表新，灰色線代表行業。我們繼續看到我們的不良貸款在同類基礎上表現優於行業。對於較低收入群體，我們的比較優勢仍然更加明顯。

Similar to prior quarters, our provisions increased primarily driven by the growth in our portfolio. Remember that we front-load provisions when we originate loans based on the expected losses for the life of the credit and in accordance with IFRS 9's expected loss methodology. The increase in provisions, therefore, is directly linked to the higher loan origination volumes recorded in the quarter.

與前幾個季度類似，我們的撥備增加主要是由我們的投資組合的增長推動的。請記住，當我們根據信貸期限內的預期損失並根據 IFRS 9 的預期損失方法發放貸款時，我們會提前準備金。因此，準備金的增加與本季度記錄的較高貸款發放量直接相關。

Our risk-adjusted net interest margin reached another record high of 8% and expanding by 140 basis points quarter-over-quarter and 570 basis points higher than a year ago.

我們的風險調整後淨息差再創歷史新高，達8%，環比擴大140個基點，較去年同期擴大570個基點。

Having shared these data and perspectives on credit and asset quality, let me now turn the call back to our Founder and CEO, David Velez, for his concluding remarks. David, back to you.

在分享了這些關於信貸和資產質量的數據和觀點之後，現在讓我把電話轉回給我們的創始人兼首席執行官 David Velez，讓他作總結髮言。大衛，回到你身邊。

Thanks, Youssef. As we wrap up, I would like to talk about 2 relevant product launches that took place during recent months, secured loans in Brazil and Cuenta Nu in Mexico. We consider these 2 products as essential additions to a road map for both countries, given the relevance for us to grow our business and earn the right to become the primary banking relationships of more and more customers.

謝謝，尤瑟夫。在我們結束時，我想談談最近幾個月推出的兩項相關產品，即巴西的擔保貸款和墨西哥的 Cuenta Nu。我們認為這兩種產品是對兩國路線圖的重要補充，因為它們與我們發展業務並贏得成為越來越多客戶的主要銀行關係的權利有關。

Regarding secured loans, we officially launched payroll loans for federal employees in April and started the testing phase of FGTS backed loans a few weeks ago. Including payroll loans in our road map is going to be essential for several reasons. First and foremost, we believe it gives us access to the largest asset class for consumer lending in Brazil, amounting to over BRL 600 billion. Currently, more than 35% of this market is already taken by Nubank's clients but through our banks.

關於擔保貸款，我們於 4 月份正式推出了針對聯邦僱員的工資貸款，並於幾週前開始了 FGTS 支持貸款的測試階段。出於多種原因，將工資貸款納入我們的路線圖至關重要。首先也是最重要的是，我們相信它使我們能夠獲得巴西最大的消費貸款資產類別，金額超過 6000 億雷亞爾。目前，超過 35% 的市場已經被 Nubank 的客戶通過我們的銀行佔據。

Second, we believe that offering payroll loans and now also FGTS backed loans, it's crucial for us to establish primary banking relationships with an increasing number of customers that tend to be high income. It serves as the ideal product for those that are eligible, enhancing our engagement with them. Importantly, in these new lines of products, we have decided to price aggressively given the advantages of our business model efficiency and the fact that we're not going through intermediaries.

其次，我們認為，提供工資貸款以及現在的 FGTS 支持貸款，對我們來說與越來越多的高收入客戶建立主要銀行關係至關重要。對於符合條件的人來說，它是理想的產品，可以增強我們與他們的互動。重要的是，在這些新產品線中，考慮到我們的業務模式效率的優勢以及我們不通過中間商的事實，我們決定積極定價。

Lastly, incorporating secured loans into our portfolio is valuable to the remarkably low level of effective losses associated with this product. We believe these initiatives will help us complement balance and fortify our unsecured credit portfolio with lower risk offers. Already living with all of the secured credit products, but still in testing mode with relatively small sample sizes.

最後，將擔保貸款納入我們的投資組合對於與該產品相關的有效損失水平非常低是有價值的。我們相信這些舉措將幫助我們補充平衡並以較低風險的報價強化我們的無擔保信貸投資組合。已經使用了所有擔保信貸產品，但仍處於樣本量相對較小的測試模式。

While we're still in the early days, we're on track with our expectations. The conversion rate is progressing nicely, which can be attributed to our differentiated UX and attractive pricing. By eliminating loan brokers from the process, we have passed on some of the associated benefits to our final borrowers. In addition, the current level of losses for payroll loans has been better than initial expectations. With a well-established position in payroll loans in Brazil, we seek to earn the right to become primary banking providers of more and more customers in the future.

雖然我們仍處於早期階段，但我們正在實現我們的期望。轉化率進展順利，這可以歸功於我們差異化的用戶體驗和有吸引力的價格。通過從流程中消除貸款經紀人，我們將一些相關的好處傳遞給了最終借款人。此外，目前工資貸款的損失水平也好於最初的預期。憑藉在巴西工資貸款領域的穩固地位，我們尋求未來成為越來越多客戶的主要銀行服務提供商。

Regarding Cuenta Nu, we officially launched it in May and within a month, crossed the 1 million customer milestone in this product in Mexico. By the end of June, we reached 1.3 million accounts and collected more than MXN 1.5 billion in deposits. Just for the sake of comparison, the average deposit per customer in Mexico is more than 10x the average of Brazilian customers deposits from our checking account was launched in the country in 2017.

關於 Cuenta Nu，我們於 5 月份正式推出，一個月之內，該產品在墨西哥的客戶就突破了 100 萬的里程碑。截至 6 月底，我們的賬戶數量已達 130 萬個，存款金額超過 15 億墨西哥比索。僅供比較，墨西哥客戶的平均存款是巴西客戶平均存款的 10 倍以上，我們於 2017 年在該國推出了支票賬戶。

Cuenta Nu plays a pivotal role in our road map for Mexico based on 3 key factors, diversifying funding sources and reducing costs. The LatAm markets are highly concentrated, making it challenging to rely solely on wholesale funding as competitors may not be willing to fund our growth. Additionally, securitization products are usually shallow in Latin American markets, and they often become inaccessible when needed the most. We believe that to grow our consumer finance business in LatAm we need to develop local currency retail deposits to provide a stable and sustainable funding source. Today, with an effective yield lower than 80% of the risk-free rate. And as mentioned before, significantly below our current cost of funding in Mexico, of funding rates plus 100 bps, which means more than 12% per year.

Cuenta Nu 在我們的墨西哥路線圖中發揮著關鍵作用，基於三個關鍵因素：資金來源多元化和降低成本。拉丁美洲市場高度集中，使得僅依靠批發資金變得具有挑戰性，因為競爭對手可能不願意為我們的增長提供資金。此外，證券化產品在拉丁美洲市場通常很薄弱，在最需要的時候往往無法獲得。我們認為，為了發展我們在拉美的消費金融業務，我們需要發展當地貨幣零售存款，以提供穩定和可持續的資金來源。如今，有效收益率低於無風險利率的80%。正如之前提到的，融資利率遠低於我們目前在墨西哥的融資成本，加上 100 個基點，這意味著每年超過 12%。

Accelerating customer growth. Cuenta Nu had the potential to unlock our referral flywheel, resulting in accelerated customer growth. Until the end of Q1 '23, we could only onboard customers who met our credit card threshold, leading to a high decline ratio of approximately 70% of applications. Now with Cuenta Nu in place, we have the opportunity to onboard 100% of applicants without necessarily incurring additional credit risk. And finally, data-driven credit underwriting. Since our credit underwriting engine is built on AI and machine learning making it crucial to have sufficient data scalability. The faster we grow our customer base, the more refined and accurate our credit assessment becomes strengthening our risk management practices and supporting responsible lending.

加速客戶增長。 Cuenta Nu 有潛力釋放我們的推薦飛輪，從而加速客戶增長。直到 23 年第一季度末，我們只能吸引符合信用卡門檻的客戶，導致申請的拒絕率很高，約為 70%。現在，有了 Cuenta Nu，我們就有機會接納 100% 的申請人，而不必承擔額外的信用風險。最後，數據驅動的信貸承銷。由於我們的信用承保引擎是基於人工智能和機器學習構建的，因此擁有足夠的數據可擴展性至關重要。我們的客戶群增長得越快，我們的信用評估就越精細和準確，從而加強我們的風險管理實踐並支持負責任的貸款。

Notwithstanding the fact that the maturation curve of new products usually take a year. We could not be more optimistic about the future given not only our early progress in these new launches, but also the upcoming additions planned for the second half. which include to name only a few, payroll loan portability and refinancing, INSS payroll loans, FGTS lending and Cuenta Nu in Colombia.

儘管新產品的成熟曲線通常需要一年的時間。考慮到我們在這些新產品發布方面的早期進展，以及計劃在下半年推出的新增功能，我們對未來感到非常樂觀。其中包括僅舉幾例：工資貸款可轉移性和再融資、INSS 工資貸款、FGTS 貸款和哥倫比亞的 Cuenta Nu。

We have repeatedly stated together with our customer attraction and cost differentiation, superior products and services foster our cross-sell and upsell capabilities, which are essential for our business model, supporting retention, loyalty, growth and profitability. With that, we would like to take your questions now. Thank you very much.

我們一再表示，與我們的客戶吸引力和成本差異化一樣，優質的產品和服務可以培養我們的交叉銷售和追加銷售能力，這對於我們的業務模式至關重要，支持保留、忠誠度、增長和盈利能力。現在我們想回答您的問題。非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) I would like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer.

（操作員指示）我想將電話轉給投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。

Thank you, operator. And our first question comes from the line of Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

謝謝你，接線員。我們的第一個問題來自高盛的蒂托·拉巴塔（Tito Labarta）。

Congratulations on another strong quarter. I guess my question is on the level of provisioning good loan growth, and the loan growth drives a lot of the provisioning. But just to think about it, early NPLs showed a slight improvement there. We've kind of seen that across the industry. just to think about when provisioning can be -- start to maybe become a tailwind, right? I mean your gross margin did improve in the quarter. Despite that, but you mentioned in the past I think gross margins can eventually get to 60% level or so. I know when you're much more mature. But if the credit outlook is improving, can that potentially be a tailwind in the foreseeable future?

祝賀又一個強勁的季度。我想我的問題是撥備貸款良好增長的水平，而貸款增長推動了大量撥備。但仔細想想，早期不良貸款在這方面略有改善。我們在整個行業都看到了這種情況。只是想一想什麼時候供應可能會開始成為一種順風，對吧？我的意思是你們的毛利率在本季度確實有所改善。儘管如此，但你過去提到我認為毛利率最終可以達到60%左右的水平。我知道你什麼時候成熟得多。但如果信貸前景正在改善，這在可預見的未來是否可能成為有利因素？

Tito, this is Youssef. Thanks for the question. So look, we don't provide guidance on credit quality or delinquencies or consequently provisioning from a forward-looking perspective. But I mean you can take a look at how the coverage ratios have trended on -- in the appendix of our earnings presentation, Page 33, I believe. And from a coverage of 90% plus, it's been fairly stable around 213%, 214%. And the coverage to balance generally mirrors NPL 90 plus, and it has been largely performing per expectations. So to your point, should delinquencies improve? Obviously, provisions can become a tailwind, but we'll see actual performance as it comes in.

蒂托，這是優素福。謝謝你的提問。因此，我們不會從前瞻性的角度提供有關信貸質量或拖欠情況或相應撥備的指導。但我的意思是，你可以看看覆蓋率的趨勢如何——我相信，在我們收益報告的附錄中，第 33 頁。從 90% 以上的覆蓋率來看，一直穩定在 213%、214% 左右。平衡的覆蓋範圍總體上反映了 NPL 90+，並且其表現基本上符合預期。那麼就您的觀點而言，拖欠率是否應該有所改善？顯然，規定可能會成為一種順風，但我們將看到它的實際表現。

Great. Youssef, and if I could follow up, I guess, just a little bit on the loan growth, in particular, David, you highlighted payroll loans have now launched. I think any just initial color on how that's tracking and if that can be significant in the second half of the year? Or is that more -- will take a little bit longer because that could also be another potential tailwind to that cost of risk, given just the risk on the payroll loans that are a lot lower?

偉大的。尤瑟夫，如果我能跟進一下，我想，只是一點關於貸款增長的情況，特別是大衛，你強調工資貸款現已推出。我認為關於其跟踪方式的任何初步信息以及這是否會在今年下半年發揮重要作用？還是說需要更長的時間，因為考慮到工資貸款的風險要低得多，這也可能成為風險成本的另一個潛在推動因素？

Tito, yes, no, absolutely. So we had to integrate a number of different contracts to launch payroll loans. We did that already. We're up and running on Q2. We've been integrating the product, making sure it's a great product for consumers, easy to understand. We're getting comfortable more and more with the type of feedback we are receiving. And I think you'll start seeing us increasing the pace of originations over the next few quarters, if everything goes according to plan. But yes, I mean, I think over the next few quarters, you should start seeing meaningful demand.

蒂托，是的，不，絕對是。因此，我們必須整合許多不同的合同來推出工資貸款。我們已經這麼做了。我們已在第二季度啟動並運行。我們一直在整合該產品，確保它對消費者來說是一款很棒的產品，並且易於理解。我們對收到的反饋類型越來越滿意。我認為，如果一切按計劃進行，您將開始看到我們在接下來的幾個季度中加快創新的步伐。但是，是的，我的意思是，我認為在接下來的幾個季度中，您應該開始看到有意義的需求。

And again, this is the largest profit pool in financial services in Brazil, so very large market. And as we've said in the past, our customer base accounts for something like 35% of that entire profit pool. And we are -- we have a great product going directly to consumers, and we're pricing very effectively. Interest rates are 30% to 40% below market. So we think we have a very good value proposition that should allow us to take significant share in this market. But again, we'll have to take step by step and see how those goes and we start rolling it out to the entire customer base.

再說一次，這是巴西金融服務業最大的利潤池，所以市場非常大。正如我們過去所說，我們的客戶群約佔整個利潤池的 35%。我們擁有直接面向消費者的優質產品，而且我們的定價非常有效。利率比市場低 30% 至 40%。因此，我們認為我們有一個非常好的價值主張，應該能讓我們在這個市場上佔據重要份額。但同樣，我們必須一步一步地看看這些進展如何，然後我們開始將其推廣到整個客戶群。

And Tito , if I may, if I may complement here, a few thoughts on payroll loans. We have launched [Nu Shopee] as a pilot test. In the second half of the year, we're going to launch INSS and Portability. And I highlight portability because in a declining interest rate environment, the ability to actually port loans from other banks may be a relevant source of growth for us, and it's something that we intend to lean in heavily over the coming quarters. Having said that, I do not expect that payroll loans will actually move the needle that much in terms of P&L and loan balance in 2023. I think it is more something for 2024 and beyond.

蒂托，如果可以的話，請我補充一下關於工資貸款的一些想法。我們已經推出了[Nu Shopee]作為試點。下半年，我們將推出 INSS 和 Portability。我強調可轉移性，因為在利率下降的環境下，實際從其他銀行轉移貸款的能力可能是我們增長的一個相關來源，這是我們打算在未來幾個季度大力依賴的東西。話雖如此，我並不認為工資貸款實際上會對 2023 年損益和貸款餘額產生太大影響。我認為這更適合 2024 年及以後的情況。

And our next question comes from the line of Pedro Leduc, Itau.

我們的下一個問題來自佩德羅·勒杜克（Pedro Leduc），伊塔烏（Itau）。

Guys, congrats. One on service revenues. Great job there as well. I think interchange seems to have been flattish despite the caps to confirm. How do you guys see that going forward as well? You mentioned credit appetite slowly there as well.

伙計們，恭喜。一是關於服務收入。那裡的工作也很棒。我認為儘管有上限需要確認，但交換似乎一直很平淡。你們如何看待未來的發展？您在那裡也慢慢提到了信貸需求。

And on the second part, on funding costs, the surge in deposits, very nice to see at very stable costs. And now on the ground, we see you guys looking for longer-term instruments that would cost more than 80% of the CDI. So just -- of course, there's other ways to keep it cheap, but just give us some color on how you're seeing that going forward, the interest or the liabilities, cost of funding mix, given that it's changing a little bit.

第二部分，關於融資成本，存款激增，非常高興看到成本非常穩定。現在，我們看到你們在尋找長期工具，其成本將超過 CDI 的 80%。所以，當然，還有其他方法可以保持便宜，但請告訴我們一些你對未來的看法，利息或負債，融資組合成本，因為它正在發生一點變化。

Pedro, this is Lago. Thanks so much for your question. I do believe that we will progressively increase the duration of our liabilities as we increase the duration of our assets. So we will continue to actually match very well our asset liability book. However, we believe that we could do so, still with a very healthy balance of short-term deposits at relatively low cost of funding at around 80% of CDI. And we can entertain other pockets of liquidity in the Brazilian and international markets that would allow us to increase the duration of reliability.

佩德羅，這是拉戈。非常感謝你的提問。我確實相信，隨著我們增加資產期限，我們將逐步增加負債期限。因此，我們將繼續很好地匹配我們的資產負債表。然而，我們相信我們可以做到這一點，短期存款仍然保持非常健康的平衡，融資成本相對較低，約為 CDI 的 80%。我們還可以在巴西和國際市場上獲得其他流動性，這將使我們能夠延長可靠性的持續時間。

So we have recently started to issue longer-dated time deposits in our platforms and we have been very pleased with the results. So I would basically separate we have the short-term deposits that we believe will continue to grow at 80% of CDI average cost. And then we have other pockets of liquidity that will be more than sufficient to provide us with adequate asset liability management as we scale progressively, primarily the book of our secured lending consignado business.

因此，我們最近開始在我們的平台上發行較長期的定期存款，我們對結果非常滿意。因此，我基本上將我們的短期存款分開，我們相信這些存款將繼續以 CDI 平均成本的 80% 的速度增長。然後，隨著我們逐步擴大規模，我們還有其他流動性，這些流動性將足以為我們提供充分的資產負債管理，主要是我們的擔保貸款寄售業務。

Great. May I do a follow-up as well?

偉大的。我也可以跟進一下嗎？

Yes, absolutely.

是的，一點沒錯。

Yes. All right. When I look at your credit balance, a very nice portion of the interest-bearing growing. And then when I look within the credit card composition, the revolver, the rotations are basically flat Q-on-Q in reais, while the others now, especially interest rate installments grow. It's a very nice achievement, especially given all the discussions surrounding this line about the revolver. You can elaborate with us and shed some light on how you've been able to grow the others, keep that one sort of flat despite the growing TPVs, that would be great.

是的。好的。當我查看你們的信貸餘額時，有息增長的很大一部分。然後，當我查看信用卡的構成時，左輪手槍的輪轉基本上與雷亞爾持平，而現在其他信用卡，特別是利率分期付款則在增長。這是一個非常好的成就，特別是考慮到圍繞這句話關於左輪手槍的所有討論。您可以與我們詳細說明，並闡明您如何能夠發展其他項目，儘管 TPV 不斷增長，但仍保持其中一種水平，那就太好了。

Sure, Pedro. Here's David. So we, from the very beginning, built a strategy and credit card to focus on transactors. We never loved the revolving business for the reasons that you know very well, which is a market that has a number of different complexities across the chain and ultimately forces issuers to charge very high interest rates. We never like that. And so we've decided to build in the beginning a model that looked for transactors.

當然，佩德羅。這是大衛。因此，我們從一開始就制定了專注於交易者的戰略和信用卡。我們從來不喜歡循環業務，原因眾所周知，這是一個在整個鏈條上具有許多不同複雜性的市場，最終迫使發行人收取非常高的利率。我們從來不喜歡那樣。因此，我們決定從一開始就建立一個尋找交易者的模型。

And in fact, if we could have -- since the beginning, if we could have a model that had 100% transactor, 0% revolvers, we would choose that. We would very effectively make money only on interchange. However, it's impossible. The models are not perfect. And so you end up having a percentage of revolvers. But they are kept to effectively the minimum and customers that come in and effectively have a higher probability of revolve, we wouldn't accept them to be a credit card holder. And that's why you see us having such a smaller percentage of revolver of 7% versus the average market at 16%.

事實上，如果我們能夠——從一開始，如果我們能夠擁有一個 100% 交易者、0% 左輪手槍的模型，我們就會選擇它。我們只有通過交換才能非常有效地賺錢。然而，這是不可能的。這些模型並不完美。所以你最終會得到一定比例的左輪手槍。但它們實際上被保持在最低限度，而且進來的客戶實際上有更高的循環概率，我們不會接受他們成為信用卡持有人。這就是為什麼我們的左輪手槍比例只有 7%，而市場平均比例為 16%。

Now we see that there are other opportunities to use financing that is good for the customer, where there is real price elasticity, and we can price at a much lower interest rate. And specifically in our case, fixed financing over the past few quarters has been great avenue where we allow customers to finance their purchases over a number of installments at lower and much lower interest rates creating this portfolio of much longer dated, lower delinquency, lower interest type of portfolio, which is ultimately much healthier for us and much better for customers. So that is effectively the part that we want to grow. And so that is what you effectively see in Slide 14, where you see us growing that kind of interest-bearing balances from 8% to 19% while trying to maintain revolver to its minimum.

現在我們看到還有其他機會使用對客戶有利的融資，其中存在真正的價格彈性，並且我們可以以低得多的利率定價。特別是在我們的案例中，過去幾個季度的固定融資一直是一個很好的途徑，我們允許客戶以越來越低的利率分多次分期付款，從而創造出期限更長、拖欠率更低、利息更低的投資組合類型的投資組合，最終對我們來說更健康，對客戶來說也更好。所以這實際上是我們想要增長的部分。這就是您在幻燈片 14 中實際看到的內容，您可以看到我們將這種帶息餘額從 8% 增加到 19%，同時努力將左輪手槍維持在最低水平。

And our next question comes from the line of Eduardo Rosman, BTG Pactual.

我們的下一個問題來自 Eduardo Rosman，BTG Pactual。

Congrats on the numbers. I have a question related to the revolving credit card theme and these potential changes in (inaudible). What's your take on that? Should we expect something relevant to happen? If there's a cap, shouldn't this be an opportunity for Nu, given its much lower cost to serve? You also just mentioned that you have less revolving than peers. So any color here would be great.

恭喜你的數字。我有一個與循環信用卡主題和這些潛在變化（聽不清）相關的問題。你對此有何看法？我們應該期待相關的事情發生嗎？如果有上限，鑑於 Nu 的服務成本要低得多，這難道不應該是一個機會嗎？您剛才還提到，您的周轉率比同齡人少。所以這裡任何顏色都會很棒。

Rosman, this is Lago. So the discussions around the economics of credit card in Brazil have been going on for years, and they have certainly intensified over the past few months. involved in both the government and many credit card issuers. But those discussions are not simple because the topic is really highly complex. As you know, credit card represents a very big industry in Brazil. It accounts for about 40% of the personal consumption expenditure or PCE of the country and over 20% of the GDP of Brazil. In 2022, the purchase volume of credit cards accounted for over BRL 2 trillion.

羅斯曼，這是拉戈。因此，圍繞巴西信用卡經濟學的討論已經持續多年，而且在過去幾個月裡，討論無疑更加激烈。涉及政府和許多信用卡發行機構。但這些討論並不簡單，因為這個話題確實非常複雜。如您所知，信用卡在巴西代表著一個非常大的產業。它約佔該國個人消費支出或PCE的40%，佔巴西GDP的20%以上。 2022年，信用卡消費額超過2萬億雷亞爾。

So it's a very important, very large industry and any drastic or material changes to its dynamics may have fairly no relevant and material consequences to the economic output. I think all of the industry participants, the government and the regulators are fully aware of this, and we are very confident that the industry will provide an adequate solution that we even evolve and further the product in a better equilibrium.

因此，這是一個非常重要、非常大的行業，其動態的任何劇烈或實質性變化可能對經濟產出幾乎沒有相關和實質性影響。我認為所有行業參與者、政府和監管機構都充分意識到這一點，我們非常有信心行業將提供適當的解決方案，我們甚至可以發展並進一步使產品達到更好的平衡。

I think it is very hard for us, Rosman, at this point in time. to draw any high conviction outlook as to what is going to happen over the next few weeks or months. But we do not expect any drastic changes in the unit economics nor do we actually believe that interest rate cap will be welcomed by many of the industry participants or the regulators given the material negative impact that it may have to the credit availability.

羅斯曼，我認為此時此刻對我們來說非常困難。對未來幾週或幾個月將發生的事情進行高度確信的展望。但我們預計單位經濟不會發生任何重大變化，而且我們實際上也不相信利率上限會受到許多行業參與者或監管機構的歡迎，因為它可能對信貸可用性產生重大負面影響。

And our next question comes from the line of Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的尤里·費爾南德斯。

I had one question regarding Brazil on the profitability. I understood that the focus would be the holding but when we look to the earnings from Brazil, Brazil was maybe $190 million. It's a good increase from previous quarter, $20 million but now we see an increase in maybe other markets or maybe the whole number. I just want to check this, what is the difference between the $225 million you printed in the holding in Brazil that in the previous quarters was over (inaudible) of the profitability of the company. Just checking if it's the cash at the holding at a higher rate, something like that.

我有一個關於巴西盈利能力的問題。我知道重點是控股，但當我們看看巴西的收入時，巴西可能是 1.9 億美元。與上一季度相比，增長了 2000 萬美元，但現在我們看到可能是其他市場的增長，也可能是整個數字的增長。我只是想檢查一下，您在巴西控股公司印製的 2.25 億美元與前幾個季度（聽不清）公司盈利能力之間的差異是多少。只是檢查一下持有的現金是否具有更高的利率，諸如此類。

Yuri, I think 2 comments here. One, I would be very cautious of drawing conclusions on the profitability of our Brazilian operations by looking only at the figures that we provide to the Brazilian Central Bank because these figures, they account only for our legal entities that are fully regulated in Brazil. They do not account for 100% of our operations in the country. So I wouldn't necessarily draw much from what is reported in the Brazilian Central Bank.

尤里，我想這裡有 2 條評論。第一，我會非常謹慎地通過僅查看我們向巴西中央銀行提供的數據來得出我們巴西業務的盈利能力的結論，因為這些數據僅考慮到我們在巴西受到全面監管的法人實體。他們並不占我們在該國業務的 100%。因此，我不一定會從巴西央行的報告中得出太多結論。

Your second question, though, it's intuitively, yes, I think the way that we operate, we have profitable operations in Brazil. We have profitable operations at the holding company, largely as a result of the investment of the $2.4 billion of cash that we have there. And we have operations in Mexico and Colombia. They are still posting losses as they are in high-growth investment situations.

不過，你的第二個問題，直觀上來說，是的，我認為我們的運營方式，我們在巴西的業務是盈利的。我們在控股公司的運營是盈利的，這主要歸功於我們在那裡投資了 24 億美元的現金。我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞都有業務。由於處於高增長投資環境，他們仍然出現虧損。

No. Thank you, Lago, I was using your presentation. I guess you still have Brazil out there, and I was using -- I know it's very similar to the report of [Brazilian Bank,] but I guess is to have the Brazilian consolidated earnings there. And if I may, Lago, just a second follow-up here. Higher income clients, how relevant is this for your strategy here for Nubank? Because you kind of have a very good share on lower income and middle income. And this is a common topic we discuss with investors so we would love to hear your thoughts about higher income clients.

不，謝謝你，拉戈，我正在使用你的演示文稿。我想你仍然有巴西，我正在使用 - 我知道它與[巴西銀行]的報告非常相似，但我想那裡有巴西的綜合收益。如果可以的話，拉戈，請再進行第二次跟進。高收入客戶，這與您為 Nubank 制定的策略有何相關性？因為你在低收入和中等收入中所佔的份額很大。這是我們與投資者討論的常見話題，因此我們很想听聽您對高收入客戶的想法。

No, absolutely. So look, the high-income venture into the high income sector is one of the company's priorities for the 2023-2024 period. And we have invested a good amount of time and resources trying to understand globally how companies have succeeded breaking into the high-income segments in many parts of the globe. And we have basically crafted a strategy that is composed by 2 steps. One step is customer acquisition. The second step is customer monetization.

不，絕對是。所以看，進入高收入領域的高收入投資是該公司2023-2024年期間的優先事項之一。我們投入了大量的時間和資源，試圖了解全球範圍內的公司如何成功打入全球許多地區的高收入市場。我們基本上製定了一個由兩個步驟組成的策略。第一步是獲取客戶。第二步是客戶貨幣化。

I think in the first half, which is customer acquisition, when we look to the past 18 months, we are fairly well pleased with how many high-income customers we have acquired in the country, if you define a high income customer as a customer who earns more than BRL 12,000. We already have over 60% of the high-income customers of Brazil being customers of Nubank. So I think the first step of this 2-step strategy has been very successful so far. We are now entering into the second step, which is to deepen the relationship of those customers and to be able to increase our share of wallet of them.

我認為在上半年，也就是客戶獲取方面，當我們回顧過去 18 個月時，我們對我們在該國獲得了多少高收入客戶感到相當滿意，如果你將高收入客戶定義為客戶的話收入超過12,000雷亞爾的人。我們已經有超過 60% 的巴西高收入客戶是 Nubank 的客戶。所以我認為這個兩步戰略的第一步到目前為止非常成功。我們現在正在進入第二步，即加深與這些客戶的關係，並能夠增加我們在他們中的錢包份額。

So if you compare the demographics of the customer base of Nubank with the customer base of incumbent banks, you see that in terms of number of customers, we have a relatively similar breakdown between low income, middle income and high income. However, our share of wallet in the low income and middle income is still much higher than our share of wallet in the high income and there lies the huge opportunity that we have to grow customer monetization in Brazil over the coming 1 or 2 years.

因此，如果您將Nubank 客戶群的人口統計數據與現有銀行的客戶群進行比較，您會發現，就客戶數量而言，我們在低收入、中等收入和高收入之間有相對相似的細分。然而，我們在低收入和中等收入人群中的錢包份額仍然遠高於我們在高收入人群中的錢包份額，並且在未來一兩年內，我們必須在巴西增加客戶貨幣化的巨大機會。

However, Yuri, the growth into any new kind of demographic or segments, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. By which I mean it's not something that we're going to be able to show results in 1 quarter, 2 quarters. I think it is a matter of a few years in which we will strengthen our value proposition and progressively grow into this new segment.

然而，尤里，任何新的人口或細分市場的增長，這不是一場短跑，而是一場馬拉松。我的意思是，我們無法在 1 個季度、2 個季度內展示結果。我認為幾年之內我們將加強我們的價值主張並逐步發展到這個新的細分市場。

And our next question comes from the line of Thiago Batista, UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔。

Guys, congratulations for the results, very strong results. My question is about the good surprise of the ROE of 17% that you guys posted this quarter. Even with excess capital and also with losses in Mexico and Colombia, this level is already higher than most of the incumbents in Brazil in line with Itau retail business and since that Nubank has structured a better efficiency ratio than peers. So my question is, how do you believe Nu will play the superior efficiency in the long term? So the bank should deliver or the fintechs deliver a much higher ROE than peers? Or part of this will be shared with clients and consequently, Nu tend to have a much lower price than peers. So how you guys are likely to play with the superior efficiency versus peers?

伙計們，恭喜你取得的結果，非常出色的結果。我的問題是關於你們本季度發布的 17% 的 ROE 的驚喜。即使墨西哥和哥倫比亞資本過剩且出現虧損，這一水平也已經高於巴西大多數現有銀行（與 Itau 零售業務一致），而且 Nubank 構建了比同行更好的效率比率。所以我的問題是，您認為Nu將如何長期發揮卓越的效率？那麼銀行或金融科技公司應該提供比同行更高的股本回報率嗎？或者其中一部分將與客戶共享，因此，Nu 的價格往往比同行低得多。那麼，與同行相比，你們如何才能發揮出更高的效率呢？

Yes. No, great question. I think it talks to the heart of the digital banking strategy we've been pursuing since the very beginning, which similarly to what you've seen when you have technology companies, fully digital technology companies competing with traditional companies that are more offline operations. We have the opportunity to use the efficiency of our business model that now you can start really seeing especially around the operating efficiency on behalf of our customers, so that we provide a product that has higher quality and lower cost, allowing us to win more share. And so you start creating a bit of a flywheel where you gain share, you gain scale that scale gives you lower cost to serve. You then go back and pass that efficiency, again to the customer via better products and even lower pricing and you have these reinforcing flywheel. We expect to do that in banking. So we, part of our initial value proposition was charged 0 fees. So even since the beginning, we started already charging no fees on that side and that meant an opportunity to compete on price.

是的。不，很好的問題。我認為這涉及到我們從一開始就一直追求的數字銀行戰略的核心，這與您所看到的科技公司、全數字技術公司與更多線下運營的傳統公司競爭時所看到的情況類似。我們有機會利用我們業務模式的效率，現在您可以開始真正看到代表我們客戶的運營效率，以便我們提供更高質量和更低成本的產品，使我們能夠贏得更多份額。因此，你開始創建一個飛輪，你可以在其中獲得份額，獲得規模，而規模的擴大可以降低服務成本。然後，您返回並通過更好的產品和更低的價格再次將這種效率傳遞給客戶，並且您擁有這些增強的飛輪。我們希望在銀行業做到這一點。因此，我們最初的價值主張的一部分是收取 0 費用。因此，從一開始，我們就開始在這方面不收取任何費用，這意味著有機會進行價格競爭。

But as we grow and we get more data and our models mature and our cost to serve to decrease even lower, we can then start doing both lower fees and lower prices in credit products. So specifically to your question, we think we're going to be doing both. We will use the advantage of the business model to both gain share as well as ultimately see a higher return on equity than traditional incumbents given ultimately, this cost structure advantage is very strategic, and it's going to be hard for competitors to match that cost structure advantage in a short period of time.

但隨著我們的成長，我們獲得更多的數據，我們的模型成熟，我們的服務成本甚至更低，我們就可以開始降低信貸產品的費用和價格。因此，具體到你的問題，我們認為我們將同時做這兩件事。我們將利用商業模式的優勢來獲得份額，並最終看到比傳統現有企業更高的股本回報率，這種成本結構優勢非常具有戰略意義，競爭對手將很難匹配這種成本結構短時間內發揮優勢。

No, very clear. If I can do a follow-up, my follow-up would be regarding the artificial intelligence, if you guys are already using these? And where this should improve the bank's operations. So it will be more on costs? More on the on the asset quality? So how this should improve the operations of the bank?

不，非常清楚。如果我可以做後續，我的後續將是關於人工智能，如果你們已經在使用這些？這應該會改善銀行的運營。那麼成本上會更多嗎？更多關於資產質量的信息？那麼這應該如何改善銀行的運營呢？

Yes. So we've been actively active users of artificial intelligence already for a while. We've also been investing a lot in understanding how specifically large language models can have different applications for us. We think there's really application everywhere from obvious uses around providing better customer service at lower cost or cost efficiency, for even applications around fraud, anti-money laundry and defense, we're getting very excited about the type of application that we can see that, but then especially also on the consumer-facing front. So reinventing the user experience for consumers.

是的。因此，我們已經成為人工智能的積極用戶有一段時間了。我們還投入了大量資金來了解大型語言模型如何為我們提供不同的應用程序。我們認為，應用程序確實無處不在，從明顯的用途來看，以較低的成本或成本效率提供更好的客戶服務，甚至對於欺詐、反洗錢和防禦方面的應用程序，我們對我們可以看到的應用程序類型感到非常興奮，但尤其是在面向消費者的方面。因此，重塑消費者的用戶體驗。

One way that we've talked in the past is that when we started the company, we saw the smartphone as a way to put a bank in every consumer's back pocket. We think AI is going to be the opportunity to put a bank and a banker in every consumer's back pocket. And that is going to really be the enabler of democratizing access to best financial services products to the 95% of the population that even today don't have great access to the best products. So we're big believers on the different avenues of opportunity that this technology opens up both on the offense, both on the user experience as well as a lever to increase even more efficiency of the model.

我們過去談論的一種方式是，當我們創辦公司時，我們將智能手機視為將銀行放入每個消費者後袋的一種方式。我們認為人工智能將成為將銀行和銀行家放入每個消費者後袋的機會。這將真正推動 95% 的人口獲得最佳金融服務產品的民主化，而即使在今天，他們也無法很好地獲得最佳產品。因此，我們堅信這項技術可以在進攻、用戶體驗以及提高模型效率方面開闢不同的機會途徑。

And our next question comes from the line of Geoff Elliott, Autonomous.

我們的下一個問題來自 Geoff Elliott，《Autonomous》。

I wanted to ask about Mexico, clearly quite a different credit card market from Brazil. And I imagine the revolving part of the business is much more important given the different economics. How are you seeing credit in Mexico? Can you give us a feel for how credit quality has been performing maybe a sense of how -- what you've seen there compares with Brazil?

我想問一下墨西哥，這顯然是一個與巴西截然不同的信用卡市場。我認為考慮到不同的經濟狀況，業務的循環部分要重要得多。您如何看待墨西哥的信貸？您能否讓我們了解一下信貸質量的表現，或者您所看到的與巴西相比如何？

Geoff, this is Youssef. Thank you for the question. Yes, you're right. There are some important structural differences in terms of the credit card product in Mexico, how our customers view it and use it. It tends to be much more of a borrowing vehicle rather than a payment vehicle, which tends to be the predominant use in Brazil. So consequently, you see a couple of things. You see higher interest-bearing receivables, you see higher risk as well. On net returns are actually comparable, if not better, than in Brazil.

傑夫，這是優素福。感謝你的提問。你是對的。墨西哥的信用卡產品以及我們的客戶如何看待和使用它存在一些重要的結構差異。它往往更多地是一種借貸工具，而不是支付工具，而支付工具往往是巴西的主要用途。因此，你會看到一些事情。你會看到更高的帶息應收賬款，你也會看到更高的風險。淨回報實際上與巴西相當，甚至更好。

Maybe the other salient thing that I would point out with respect to Mexico is the levels of penetration of financial services in general and credit cards, in particular, are much lower than in Brazil. So that will lead to much more of a financial inclusion play and consequently, just higher levels of delinquency. But we've been very pleased with what we've seen in Mexico in terms of the traction we've gotten in the market since our entry about 3 years ago, closing in on 4 million customers now having launched our second product. We think the launch of Cuenta is going to be a game changer in terms of being able to approve everybody as a customer in terms of gathering data in terms of building ultimately principality and higher levels of engagement. And so we're quite pleased with the traction so far.

也許我要指出的關於墨西哥的另一件突出的事情是金融服務的總體滲透水平，特別是信用卡的滲透水平遠低於巴西。因此，這將導致更多的金融包容性發揮，從而導致拖欠率更高。但自從大約 3 年前進入市場以來，我們對墨西哥市場的吸引力感到非常滿意，現在已經有 400 萬客戶推出了我們的第二個產品。我們認為 Cuenta 的推出將改變遊戲規則，因為它能夠批准每個人作為客戶，收集數據，建立最終的公國和更高水平的參與度。因此，我們對迄今為止的牽引力感到非常滿意。

The one point I would add, Geoff, on Mexico also is that the fact that Mexico and also the later Colombia is more of an unbanked story versus a bank story, which was Brazil, creates both a challenge as well as an opportunity, a challenge, obviously, because we have to underwrite as we grow to a percentage of the population that never had access to credit, which means that there are times we going to have to slow down a bit retreat, read our model, accelerate a bit, pause, and we're totally comfortable with doing that. That's how we built our models in Brazil and we tend to accelerate. We create a -- put a new model into production. We test a number of different alternatives.

傑夫，關於墨西哥，我要補充的一點是，墨西哥以及後來的哥倫比亞更多的是一個沒有銀行賬戶的故事，而不是巴西的銀行故事，這既帶來了挑戰，也帶來了機遇，挑戰顯然，因為當我們增長到從未獲得信貸的人口比例時，我們必須承保，這意味著有時我們必須放慢一點撤退速度，閱讀我們的模型，稍微加速一點，暫停，我們對此非常滿意。這就是我們在巴西建立模型的方式，並且我們傾向於加速。我們創建了一個新模型並將其投入生產。我們測試了許多不同的替代方案。

So we'll have to do a little bit -- we have to be a little bit more careful as we go into this new territory. But it's on a great opportunity because if we crack the code, then we really are the only one in the market that knows how to underwrite 88% of the entire population because the traditional banks have been there for decades, and they haven't done it. They've continued to provide credit cards to a 12% of the population that already have credit cards. So you only get a credit card if you have a credit card. It's the safest, lowest risk strategy, obviously, but there is no real differentiation there. So we'll take our time and you'll see us accelerating and pausing at times, but ultimately, we think it's a really exciting market because we can build a real moat in how to underwrite and provide credit to effectively the majority of the entire country.

所以我們必須做一點——當我們進入這個新領域時，我們必須更加小心。但這是一個很好的機會，因為如果我們破解了密碼，那麼我們真的是市場上唯一知道如何承保 88% 人口的銀行，因為傳統銀行已經存在了幾十年，但他們還沒有這樣做它。他們繼續向 12% 已經擁有信用卡的人口提供信用卡。因此，只有擁有信用卡，才能獲得信用卡。顯然，這是最安全、風險最低的策略，但沒有真正的區別。因此，我們會慢慢來，你會看到我們有時會加速和暫停，但最終，我們認為這是一個非常令人興奮的市場，因為我們可以在如何有效地為整個市場的大多數人承保和提供信貸方面建立真正的護城河。國家。

And our next question comes from the line of Flavio Yoshida at Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Flavio Yoshida。

So my first question is on payroll loans. So I was wondering if you guys could share some details of the evolution under the (inaudible) operation. Is it coming better than expected? What are the main challenges faced so far? And how should we think about the overall NIM and ROE for Nubank going forward given the fact that payroll loans should have a greater relevance on the total portfolio especially taking into consideration that payroll loans, interest rates are lower than cards and personal loans as well?

我的第一個問題是關於工資貸款的。所以我想知道你們是否可以分享一些（聽不清）操作下演變的細節。事情會比預想的更好嗎？迄今為止面臨的主要挑戰是什麼？鑑於工資貸款對整個投資組合具有更大的相關性，特別是考慮到工資貸款的利率也低於信用卡和個人貸款，我們應該如何考慮 Nubank 未來的整體淨息差和股本回報率？

Flavio, we have launched what we, I would say, is a partial launch of our consignado business in Brazil. We started in late April by launching only the [Shopee] product but still without portability, right? So I think the main features that we're going to be adding in the second half of the year are fairly important for us to be able to ramp up the product mainly the portability of Shopee plus (inaudible) plus FGTS.

弗拉維奧，我想說的是，我們已經在巴西推出了部分寄售業務。我們從4月下旬開始，只推出了【Shopee】產品，但仍然沒有可移植性，對嗎？因此，我認為我們將在今年下半年添加的主要功能對於我們能夠提升產品相當重要，主要是 Shopee plus（聽不清）加上 FGTS 的可移植性。

So I think with those 3 asset classes, we will have on our shelf, products that represent the book of the secured credit market in Brazil, which is the single largest target of addressable market in the country. So we are super encouraged with the early results. And what we have seen so far since we started to operate with consignado back in April, as I mentioned, is fairly strong signs of product market fit.

因此，我認為，對於這 3 個資產類別，我們的貨架上將擁有代表巴西擔保信貸市場的產品，巴西是該國潛在市場的最大單一目標。因此，我們對早期結果感到非常鼓舞。正如我所提到的，自從我們四月份開始與 consignado 合作以來，迄今為止我們所看到的是產品市場契合的相當強烈的跡象。

So customers love the product. Conversion has been better than expected, and we have been able to have lower-than-expected operational losses for it. So we like what we find so far, but it's too early to call kind of a victory on this. It's going to be a longer journey. We don't expect that consignado or FGTS will move the needle in 2023 in terms of loan originations or loan balance, but it will be fairly important for us for the next 3 to 5 years as it represents the largest market in Brazil.

所以顧客喜歡這個產品。轉換效果好於預期，我們的運營損失也低於預期。因此，我們喜歡目前所發現的結果，但現在就稱其為勝利還為時過早。這將是一段更漫長的旅程。我們預計 consignado 或 FGTS 不會在 2023 年在貸款發放或貸款餘額方面產生重大影響，但在未來 3 到 5 年內，它對我們來說相當重要，因為它代表了巴西最大的市場。

Now it will, as you correctly pointed out, involve lower net interest margins, which is the essence of the payroll loan business in Brazil. However, it will not necessarily come with much lower ROEs because it also draws less regulatory capital, and we are confident that given our cost structure, we will be able to deliver growth, lower prices to consumer and still very compelling levels of ROEs. I think we've mentioned in the prior calls that we are aiming to have an ROEs of about 30% of our loan book and we do expect that the combination of all of these products will be able to deliver on that.

現在，正如您正確指出的那樣，它將涉及較低的淨息差，這是巴西工資貸款業務的本質。然而，它不一定會帶來更低的股本回報率，因為它吸引的監管資本也更少，而且我們有信心，考慮到我們的成本結構，我們將能夠實現增長、向消費者提供更低的價格，並保持非常引人注目的股本回報率水平。我想我們在之前的電話會議中已經提到，我們的目標是使貸款賬面的 ROE 達到 30% 左右，我們確實希望所有這些產品的組合能夠實現這一目標。

Okay. Very complete answer. And my second question is a follow-up on Yuri's question. So this was the first quarter that we saw a positive result for the holding company without Brazil. And I was wondering if there was any change in the investment strategy and if we should expect further positive results in the coming quarters?

好的。非常完整的答案。我的第二個問題是尤里問題的後續。因此，這是我們在沒有巴西的情況下看到控股公司取得積極成果的第一季度。我想知道投資策略是否有任何變化以及我們是否應該期望在未來幾個季度取得進一步的積極成果？

No. I think what we have seen is a slightly better results in our treasury operations at the holding company, given the $2.4 billion, $2.5 billion that we have there. But mostly as a result of the more benign markets that we have, our investment policy at the holding company has been fairly conservative, and we expect to continue to be fairly conservative investing in basically very safe and liquid investment assets.

不。我認為，鑑於我們擁有 24 億美元、25 億美元的資金，我們在控股公司的財務業務中所看到的結果略好一些。但主要是由於我們擁有更加良性的市場，我們對控股公司的投資政策相當保守，我們預計將繼續相當保守地投資於基本上非常安全和流動性的投資資產。

And our next question comes from the line of Rafael Frade, Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗集團拉斐爾·弗拉德（Rafael Frade）。

Congrats on the numbers. I have a question -- only related to capital. So I understand that now you are ready for the third quarter, you should already have all the regulated entities in Brazil under the same umbrella in terms of capital. So just to have a sense of what would be your BASEL at the current this current configuration?

恭喜你的數字。我有一個問題——只與資本有關。所以我知道現在你已經為第三季度做好了準備，就資本而言，你應該已經將巴西所有受監管的實體置於同一保護傘之下。那麼，只是想了解一下當前配置下您的 BASEL 是什麼？

Yes, Frade, so just for the purpose of everyone here, so we are all on the same page. I believe you are referring to the Resolution 200 that the Brazilian Central Bank enacted back in the first quarter of 2022 which harmonize the regulatory capital regulations for both payment institutions and financial institutions. We at that regulation became effect July 1, 2023. And we have now, as you correctly pointed out, Frade, been operating as a regulatory -- a financial conglomerate in Brazil, encapsulating our payment institution and our financial institution.

是的，弗萊德，這只是為了這裡每個人的目的，所以我們都在同一立場上。我相信您指的是巴西央行於 2022 年第一季度頒布的第 200 號決議，該決議協調了支付機構和金融機構的監管資本法規。我們的法規於 2023 年 7 月 1 日生效。正如您正確指出的那樣，Frade 作為巴西的一家金融集團，作為監管機構運營，囊括了我們的支付機構和金融機構。

We are -- if we look at our financial institution, only our BASEL ratio is above 20%. If you were to look at our whole conglomerate our capital ratio would be closer to 12% in Brazil compared with the minimum regulatory requirement of 6.75%, which is the metric that is being used by this new regulation. So we have almost twice as much capital than we need to operate in Brazil.

如果我們看看我們的金融機構，只有我們的巴塞爾比率高於 20%。如果你看看我們整個集團，我們在巴西的資本比率將接近 12%，而最低監管要求為 6.75%，這是新法規所使用的指標。因此，我們的資本幾乎是在巴西運營所需資本的兩倍。

And our next question comes from the line of Daniel Vaz, Credit Suisse.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸銀行的 Daniel Vaz。

Everyone, David, Lago, Youssef and Jorg. Congrats on the strong results. My question is practically a follow-up on Frade's question. There's also a potential significant increase in your CET1 or BASEL ratio from July onwards considering the Central Bank 229 resolution and consequent reduced RWA factors considering the transactional portion of your credit card portfolio. So on the net impact from the 30% already from the Type 3 prudential adjustments and this 229, would it be correct to assume that you're net positive for capital ratios? Or have you calculated the impacts already?

每個人，大衛、拉戈、優素福和喬格。祝賀取得的強勁成果。我的問題實際上是弗萊德問題的後續問題。考慮到央行 229 號決議以及隨之而來的 RWA 因素的減少（考慮到信用卡投資組合的交易部分），從 7 月開始，您的 CET1 或 BASEL 比率也可能大幅增加。那麼，根據第 3 類審慎調整已經產生的 30% 和這 229 的淨影響，假設您的資本比率為淨正值是否正確？或者您已經計算過影響了嗎？

I think we are super well capitalized. Our capital in Brazil far exceeds the regulatory capital requirements that the new regulation imposes on us without mentioning the $2.4 billion in excess capital that we have in our holding company. So we are fairly comfortably capitalized. To give you just a general sense, Today, our capital position in Brazil amounts to approximately $2 billion. The minimum regulatory that we have is about $1.2 billion. So that is the buffer that we have to operate as of today. And our Brazilian operations, as you have pointed out, continues to be quite profitable, generating relevant amounts of earnings. So we do expect to continue to have a very comfortable capital position.

我認為我們資本雄厚。我們在巴西的資本遠遠超出了新規定對我們的監管資本要求，更不用說我們在控股公司擁有的24億美元的超額資本。所以我們的資本相當充足。為了讓您有一個大概的了解，今天，我們在巴西的資本頭寸約為 20 億美元。我們的最低監管金額約為 12 億美元。這就是我們今天必須運行的緩衝區。正如您所指出的，我們的巴西業務仍然相當有利可圖，產生了相當數量的收入。因此，我們確實預計將繼續擁有非常舒適的資本狀況。

So Lago, maybe a follow-up here. So we see a good level of BASEL ratio with also strong profitability of 17% ROE at the holding level. So with this good level of organic buildup, is management considering to distribute dividends or somehow we should expect a stronger capital buffer to support increased origination levels for credits for example?

拉戈，也許是後續行動。因此，我們看到巴塞爾比率處於良好水平，並且在控股水平上的 ROE 也具有 17% 的強勁盈利能力。那麼，有了這種良好的有機積累，管理層是否會考慮分配股息，或者我們應該期望有更強大的資本緩衝來支持信貸發起水平的提高？

So at the holding company level, we have no plans to distribute dividends at this point in time. We do believe that the amount of earnings that we're going to be able to generate in Brazil and later on in Mexico and Colombia will basically be reinvested in organic growth opportunities that we have ahead of us in those 3 geos, right? So what we may do at some point in time is do distributions from Brazil to the holding company and to optimize our capital structure, but we believe that most of the early surplus will be generated and reinvested in the business in the foreseeable future.

因此，在控股公司層面，我們目前沒有計劃分配股息。我們確實相信，我們將能夠在巴西以及隨後在墨西哥和哥倫比亞產生的收入基本上將被再投資於我們在這三個地區所擁有的有機增長機會，對吧？因此，我們在某個時間點可能會做的是從巴西向控股公司進行分配並優化我們的資本結構，但我們相信大部分早期盈餘將在可預見的未來產生並再投資於業務。

And our next question comes from the line of Neha Agarwala at HSBC.

我們的下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Neha Agarwala。

Congratulations on the good quarter. My first question is on yields. When I look at the yields for both your credit card and your personal loan porffolio. Only the interest-bearing part. I see that the yields in the last 2, 3 quarters have been going up. Are you consciously repricing up, which is leading to high yields? Or is there any other factor playing in there? And I contrast that with I think what you mentioned, if I heard it correctly, about the payroll loans that you would like to use your cost advantage in the payroll product and be competitive in terms of pricing for the payroll product. Is that correct? And should we expect a similar trajectory for the personal loans and credit card products as you gain profitability?

祝賀季度業績良好。我的第一個問題是關於收益率。當我查看您的信用卡和個人貸款組合的收益率時。只有生息部分。我看到過去兩三個季度的收益率一直在上升。您是否有意識地重新定價，從而帶來高收益？還是有其他因素在裡面？我將其與您提到的工資貸款進行對比，如果我沒聽錯的話，您希望利用工資產品的成本優勢，並在工資產品的定價方面具有競爭力。那是對的嗎？當您獲得盈利時，我們是否應該預期個人貸款和信用卡產品也會出現類似的軌跡？

My second question is a quick one on the cost-to-income ratio. Given the growth -- now you have to deposit product in Mexico and given future growth in Mexico, do you expect to accelerate investments in Mexico? Or are you at a level where you have all the fixed costs required to operate in Mexico?

我的第二個問題是關於成本收入比的快速問題。考慮到增長——現在您必須將產品存放在墨西哥，考慮到墨西哥未來的增長，您是否預計會加速在墨西哥的投資？或者您是否具備在墨西哥運營所需的所有固定成本？

Neha, a lot of questions in this one so let me try to slice them a little bit. In terms of our repricing our personal loans and credit card business, the answer is no. We have basically operated with similar pricing levels over the past few quarters. You may have seen a change in the mix of the products within each of them. And that may have been what actually has driven a little bit more of yields in each of those products. In credit cards, what you will see in the effective yield of the total portfolio, is the greater relevance of the interest-bearing balance.

Neha，這個問題有很多問題，所以讓我試著把它們切碎一點。就我們對個人貸款和信用卡業務的重新定價而言，答案是否定的。在過去的幾個季度中，我們基本上以相似的定價水平運營。您可能已經看到每個產品中的產品組合發生了變化。這可能是實際上推動每種產品產量增加的原因。在信用卡中，您將在總投資組合的有效收益率中看到的是計息餘額的更大相關性。

As you may see on here, on Slide 14 of our earnings presentation. But in short, no, there has not been any material repricing in our credit cards or personal loan business in Brazil over the past few quarters.

正如您可能在我們的收益演示幻燈片 14 中看到的那樣。但簡而言之，過去幾個季度我們在巴西的信用卡或個人貸款業務沒有任何重大的重新定價。

I think your second question is on whether we expect to translate the pricing effectiveness that we believe we will be able to implement in consignado or payroll loans into credit cards and personal loans.

我認為你的第二個問題是，我們是否希望將我們認為能夠在寄售貸款或工資貸款中實現的定價有效性轉化為信用卡和個人貸款。

And I think that the general answer is, yes, we do expect to translate additional cost advantages that we acquire into progressively better terms and conditions for our customers throughout all of our products. So whenever we see compelling opportunities, we will flex the pricing muscle accordingly in a very analytical manner.

我認為普遍的答案是，是的，我們確實希望將我們獲得的額外成本優勢轉化為針對我們所有產品的客戶逐步更好的條款和條件。因此，每當我們看到令人信服的機會時，我們都會以非常分析的方式相應地調整定價能力。

Now, I think the third question is on -- sorry, I'll pause here, Neha, on pricing to see if I address your question before I go into the efficiency ratio.

現在，我認為第三個問題是 - 抱歉，我會在這裡暫停，Neha，關於定價，看看我是否在討論效率比之前解決了你的問題。

So just to clarify, on the personal loans and credit cards. So you would be probably competing on pricing or reducing prices for these 2 products in the coming quarters?

所以我想澄清一下個人貸款和信用卡。那麼，您可能會在未來幾個季度對這兩種產品進行定價競爭或降價？

Well, I don't foresee any material changes to our current pricing policies for the short -- in the short term, in the next 1 or 2 quarters. Conceptually and in the medium and long term, we do expect to actually use our better cost advantages to leverage pricing muscles and be even more competitive in those markets.

嗯，我預計我們當前的定價政策不會在短期內發生任何重大變化——在短期內，在接下來的一兩個季度內。從概念上和中長期來看，我們確實希望能夠真正利用我們更好的成本優勢來利用定價能力，並在這些市場上更具競爭力。

Although, Neha, as I said earlier, we do our pricing below in the new secured lending type of products that we're launching. So ultimately, if secure lending, what we call consignado, does end up growing and being meaningful, that will decrease the average rate that we're charging across the entire portfolio that would also dilute some of the losses and delinquency numbers that we also show for unsecured lending.

儘管如此，Neha，正如我之前所說，我們在我們推出的新擔保貸款類型產品中的定價低於。因此，最終，如果安全貸款（我們稱之為委託人）最終確實增長並有意義，這將降低我們在整個投資組合中收取的平均利率，這也將稀釋我們也顯示的一些損失和拖欠數字用於無擔保貸款。

And then Neha, trying to address your -- the second part of your question, which is on efficiency ratio. So as you note on Page 20 of the earnings presentation, we have reached about 35% cost to income. We do not believe that we are anywhere near our efficiency frontier. We think we can actually continue to improve the efficiency ratio going forward, nor do we expect that the additional investments that we're going to make in Mexico and Colombia, will preclude us from continuing to make advancements on those fronts, right?

然後 Neha 試圖解決你的問題的第二部分，即效率比。因此，正如您在收益報告第 20 頁上註意到的那樣，我們的收入成本已達到 35% 左右。我們認為我們遠未接近效率邊界。我們認為我們實際上可以繼續提高未來的效率比，我們也不認為我們將在墨西哥和哥倫比亞進行的額外投資會阻止我們繼續在這些方面取得進展，對嗎？

So we have already front-loaded quite a lot of the investments that we have made in Mexico and Colombia, especially in terms of headcount and the velocity through which we're going to grow headcount over the next, let's say, 12 to 24 months. it's probably going to be lower than the velocity through which we grew headcount over the prior 24 months.

因此，我們已經預先加載了在墨西哥和哥倫比亞進行的大量投資，特別是在人員數量和未來（比如說 12 到 24 個月）員工數量增長速度方面。 。它可能會低於我們過去 24 個月的員工人數增長速度。

Great. If I can squeeze in just one last thing. The asset quality seems to have turned around and stabilized, early delinquency is stabilizing for Brazil. You seem to be having good momentum in Mexico. What are some of the key challenges or concerns that you're mindful of in the coming quarters?

偉大的。如果我能擠出最後一件事就好了。巴西的資產質量似乎已經好轉並趨於穩定，早期拖欠率正在趨於穩定。你們在墨西哥的勢頭似乎不錯。您在未來幾個季度中關注的一些主要挑戰或擔憂是什麼？

I think a lot of the challenges or the main challenge that we are all here very much focused on day in and day out is around those -- I would say the 3 key priorities we've been discussing since the beginning of the year and then a number 4. I'll go through them quickly. The first one is secured lending. So we launched Secure Lending in Q2. We now really see -- got to see it scaling. It's a big opportunity for us. So -- and it's all about execution, high income. As Lago earlier said, it's a marathon, not a sprint because it's a competitive space, and there is a lot that we need to build to win in that category and to get to the share that we want to be getting.

我認為我們在這裡日復一日地關注的許多挑戰或主要挑戰都圍繞著這些——我想說的是我們自今年年初以來一直在討論的 3 個關鍵優先事項數字4。我會快速瀏覽一遍。第一個是擔保貸款。因此，我們在第二季度推出了安全借貸。我們現在確實看到了——必須看到它的擴展。這對我們來說是一個很大的機會。所以——這一切都與執行力和高收入有關。正如拉戈早些時候所說，這是一場馬拉松，而不是短跑，因為這是一個競爭激烈的領域，我們需要做很多事情才能在這個類別中獲勝並獲得我們想要獲得的份額。

So we're putting all hands on deck on trying to put together a great value proposition there for that customer segment that we already have in the building, which is the good news, but we need to figure out how to increase the share. And then really cracking New count and funding in Mexico and Colombia, which are a critical aspect to decrease funding costs in both countries, get the funding that we need to continue growing in both countries and also accelerate user growth, customer growth. So those are the 3 key kind of priorities for us in the company that we are very much focused on.

因此，我們正在全力以赴，努力為我們大樓內已有的客戶群制定一個巨大的價值主張，這是個好消息，但我們需要弄清楚如何增加份額。然後真正破解墨西哥和哥倫比亞的新計數和融資，這是降低這兩個國家融資成本的關鍵方面，獲得我們在這兩個國家繼續增長所需的資金，並加速用戶增長、客戶增長。因此，這些是我們公司非常關注的 3 個關鍵優先事項。

I think beyond that, it really is the multiproduct story. It is this evolution that has already taken a couple of years, and we need to continue executing on becoming a full place -- having a full complete portfolio of products, of financial products. And then beyond, as we execute the marketplace strategy, we have integrated already over 150 different commerce partners into our app. People are being able to make reservations in our app. People have been able to shop in our app. We see the opportunity of us being bigger than a financial services firm.

我認為除此之外，這確實是多產品的故事。這種演變已經花費了幾年的時間，我們需要繼續努力成為一個完整的地方——擁有完整的產品和金融產品組合。除此之外，當我們執行市場策略時，我們已經將 150 多個不同的商業合作夥伴集成到我們的應用程序中。人們可以在我們的應用程序中進行預訂。人們已經能夠在我們的應用程序中購物。我們看到了我們比金融服務公司規模更大的機會。

We think the opportunity is a consumer technology platform where over 85 million customers that have very significant engagement and usage come to transact in a number of different ways, and we're able to help them even beyond financial services. So that is going beyond financial services that takes a number of different skill sets and learnings that we are trying to build in-house. And there is a lot of focus in-house also executing that core part of the longer strategy of the company.

我們認為機會在於消費者技術平台，超過 8500 萬俱有非常高參與度和使用率的客戶以多種不同方式進行交易，我們甚至能夠在金融服務之外為他們提供幫助。因此，這超出了金融服務的範圍，金融服務需要我們試圖在內部建立的許多不同的技能和學習知識。內部也非常重視執行公司長期戰略的核心部分。

(Operator Instructions) And we go now to Alex Markgraff at KeyBanc.

（操作員說明）我們現在請聯繫 KeyBanc 的 Alex Markgraff。

Maybe just first, I would love to hear a bit about how credit limits within the credit card product have changed kind of on a sequential basis through the year as you look at new cohorts.

也許首先，我很想听聽一些關於信用卡產品中的信用限額在一年中連續變化的情況，當你觀察新的群體時。

Alex, this is Youssef. So our approach generally on credit limits is to start with a fairly conservative credit limit, also known as the low and growth strategy for most customers, especially the customers tend to be in the middle to higher risk segments of the universe. And so what you observe is for a given cohort, we tend to start pretty low and then expand as we observe data and good repayment and performance behavior. So on a given cohort, you'll see fairly rapid expansion of credit limits. But then as new cohorts show up, they tend to dilute the average. But in general, I would say like the rate at which we're increasing credit limits has been pretty steady across the last couple of quarters.

亞歷克斯，這是優素福。因此，我們對信用額度的一般做法是從相當保守的信用額度開始，對於大多數客戶來說也稱為低增長策略，特別是那些往往處於中等到高風險部分的客戶。因此，您觀察到的是，對於給定的群體，我們往往一開始就很低，然後隨著我們觀察數據以及良好的還款和績效行為而擴大。因此，在特定群體中，您會看到信用額度的快速擴張。但隨著新群體的出現，他們往往會稀釋平均水平。但總的來說，我想說的是，過去幾個季度我們增加信貸限額的速度相當穩定。

And just to clarify, the starting point, I guess, is part of the question that level of conservatism, has that changed materially?

只是為了澄清，我想，出發點是保守主義程度是否發生了實質性變化的問題的一部分？

No, it really hasn't. I mean, as a matter of fact, our general credit philosophy is irrespective of the point at which we are in the cycle. We subject any new credit grants we have any new cohorts to fairly high requirements in terms of resilience. So typically, we expect whether it's our credit card or personal loan cohorts to be able to withstand a doubling of losses and still be above hurdle in terms of returns and NPV positive. And so that's what we do kind of throughout the cycle, and that hasn't really changed materially in the past.

不，確實沒有。我的意思是，事實上，我們的總體信用理念與我們處於週期的哪個點無關。我們對新群體的任何新信貸授予在彈性方面都提出了相當高的要求。因此，通常情況下，我們預計無論是信用卡還是個人貸款群體都能夠承受雙倍的損失，並且在回報和正淨現值方面仍然高於障礙。這就是我們在整個週期中所做的事情，並且在過去並沒有真正發生重大變化。

Okay. And then just one quick follow-up on the cost to acquire is kind of moving higher in the last several quarters. I mean the paid marketing component seems to be stable. Just wanted to understand kind of what's driving that. Obviously, it's still a very good number, but I just want to understand what's taking it to $7 versus what was previously I think $5?

好的。然後，對收購成本的快速跟進在過去幾個季度中有所上升。我的意思是付費營銷部分似乎很穩定。只是想了解是什麼推動了這一點。顯然，這仍然是一個非常好的數字，但我只是想了解是什麼讓它達到 7 美元，而不是我之前認為的 5 美元？

Alex, what we have seen in customer acquisition cost is our being a bit more aggressive in Mexico and Colombia as we expand into these geos. And especially at the beginning when we were operating with no credit cards only. What you will see, however, in Mexico over the coming quarters is as we launched Cuenta Nu, our banking account product, and millions of customers are onboarded, the customer acquisition cost of Mexico to come down. What we expect, however, going forward is customer acquisition cost to be between $5 and $10, and that range still provides us with what we believe to be a very compelling LTV to CAC.

亞歷克斯，我們在客戶獲取成本方面看到的是，隨著我們向墨西哥和哥倫比亞擴張，我們在這些地區變得更加積極。尤其是在我們剛開始運營時，沒有信用卡。然而，在接下來的幾個季度裡，您將在墨西哥看到，隨著我們推出銀行賬戶產品 Cuenta Nu，數以百萬計的客戶加入，墨西哥的客戶獲取成本將會下降。然而，我們預計，未來客戶獲取成本將在 5 美元到 10 美元之間，這個範圍仍然為我們提供了我們認為對 CAC 來說非常有吸引力的 LTV。

And our next question comes from the line of Eugene Simuni at Moffett Nathanson.

我們的下一個問題來自 Moffett Nathanson 的 Eugene Simuni。

Great results here. I just wanted to ask about card issuance volumes trends in Brazil and for you guys. Obviously, a very strong number with kind of 30% year-over-year growth in your purchase volume, FX neutral, I believe. Much, much better consistently than what Brazil market is doing. But it is decelerating at a relatively rapid pace. And when we look at the Brazil overall numbers kind of with Apex reports, there seems to be significant deceleration this year as well. So just curious to hear your thoughts on kind of what's going on in the market overall in terms of card issuance in Brazil, maybe some impact from PIX that you are seeing and then how that then gets reflected in your personal growth and kind of what we can expect in the second half of the year and going forward?

這裡的結果很好。我只是想問一下巴西和你們的發卡量趨勢。顯然，我相信，在外匯中性的情況下，您的購買量同比增長 30%，這是一個非常強勁的數字。比巴西市場的表現始終如一。但它正在以相對較快的速度減速。當我們通過 Apex 報告查看巴西的總體數據時，今年似乎也出現了顯著的減速。因此，我很想听聽您對巴西發卡市場總體情況的看法，也許您看到了 PIX 的一些影響，然後這些影響如何反映在您的個人成長中，以及我們會採取哪些措施下半年及未來可期嗎？

Eugene, I think it's very hard to address this question without making reference to the normalization post-COVID. What we have seen over the past 2 years, I would say, 2021 and 2022 in Brazil, it was a very strong recovery from COVID loss. And a fairly aggressive extension of additional credits in the country, additional credit cards in the country. And over the past, I want to say, 6 to 12 months, you've seen deceleration of credit expansion in consumer finance in Brazil, including but not limited to credit cards.

尤金，我認為如果不提及新冠疫情后的正常化，就很難解決這個問題。我想說的是，我們過去兩年所看到的，2021 年和 2022 年，巴西從新冠疫情損失中實現了非常強勁的複蘇。並相當積極地擴展該國的額外信貸，該國的額外信用卡。我想說，過去6到12個月，巴西消費金融信貸擴張放緩，包括但不限於信用卡。

We continue to outpace the industry by a fairly large amount. We have been gaining market share at a clip of about 40 to 50 basis points per quarter throughout the past quarters. And we expect that this pace is to continue in the coming quarters even though we do not necessarily target kind of a market share goals. But the pace at which we have been able to onboard new customers, the pace at which we have been able to mature existing cohorts and cross-sell credit cards suggest that we will continue to gain market share at good paces in the foreseeable future.

我們繼續以相當大的幅度領先於行業。在過去的幾個季度中，我們的市場份額以每季度約 40 至 50 個基點的速度增長。我們預計這種步伐將在未來幾個季度繼續下去，儘管我們不一定要以市場份額為目標。但我們吸引新客戶的速度、我們成熟現有客戶群和交叉銷售信用卡的速度表明，在可預見的未來，我們將繼續以良好的速度獲得市場份額。

Got it. And just maybe a very quick follow-up. Are you seeing any sort of negative impact from PIX' success on card volumes?

知道了。也許只是一個非常快速的後續行動。您是否看到 PIX 的成功對卡銷量產生了任何負面影響？

No, absolutely. No. I think we have seen -- what we have seen is PIX being a phenomenal kind of a payment mechanism in Brazil. But first and foremost, what PIX has been cannibalized in our view is cash. So that's the first item that PIX has been cannibalizing. We also have seen some early signs of PIX potentially cannibalizing debit and prepaid cards but we have not seen any evidence of PIX cannibalizing credit cards. In fact, if anything, what we have seen is a very strong correlation of the adoption of PIX and financial inclusion in Brazil and financial inclusion in Brazil sometimes comes coupled with the expansion of credit cards. It's also a relatively similar trend to the one you may have seen in India with UPI, but still early to draw any parallels between those 2 geographies.

不，絕對是。不，我認為我們已經看到——我們已經看到 PIX 在巴西是一種非凡的支付機制。但最重要的是，我們認為 PIX 被蠶食的是現金。這就是 PIX 蠶食的第一個項目。我們還看到了 PIX 可能蠶食借記卡和預付卡的一些早期跡象，但我們還沒有看到 PIX 蠶食信用卡的任何證據。事實上，如果說有什麼不同的話，那就是我們所看到的是巴西 PIX 的採用與金融包容性之間存在很強的相關性，而巴西的金融包容性有時與信用卡的擴張相結合。這也是一種與您在印度通過 UPI 看到的趨勢相對相似的趨勢，但在這兩個地區之間進行比較還為時過早。

This is Youssef. I would just also reiterate something that David spoke about in the past, which is first order impact for our portfolio of PIX on credit has been the rapid adoption of PIX financing using credit card limits. And so that's been a big driver of the increase in interest-bearing balances for us. So that's been a tailwind, quite frankly.

這是優素福。我還要重申 David 過去談到的一些事情，即使用信用卡限額快速採用 PIX 融資對我們的 PIX 信貸組合產生的首要影響。因此，這是我們有息餘額增加的一個重要推動力。坦率地說，這是一種順風。

And our last question comes from the line of Jamie Friedman, SIG.

我們的最後一個問題來自 SIG 的 Jamie Friedman。

Thank you Jorg. Lago, in your prepared remarks, you observed the strength in the debit and prepaid component of the newer cohorts. And I'm just -- looks like Slide 9 and 10. I'm just wondering, as that population or that representation increases in your portfolio. Are there specific products for financial inclusion that you would think would be better targeted towards that type of population? Just curious about the debit prepaid mix.

謝謝約格。拉戈，在您準備好的講話中，您觀察到了新群體的借記卡和預付費部分的實力。我只是 - 看起來像幻燈片 9 和 10。我只是想知道，隨著您的投資組合中的人口或代表性的增加。您認為是否有特定的普惠金融產品更適合此類人群？只是對借記預付組合感到好奇。

I think if I can draw your attention to Slide #12, you will be able to see the evolution of credit cards and prepaid theirs. And as I have noted before, for the younger and earlier cohorts you do see a higher preponderance of prepaid cards there. And we think that, that is a good pathway into a consumer credit strategy inside Nubank in which we can start the relationship with a customer with a prepaid card only.

我想如果我能讓您注意幻燈片 #12，您將能夠看到信用卡和預付卡的演變。正如我之前指出的，對於年輕和較早的群體，您確實會看到預付卡的比例更高。我們認為，這是 Nubank 內部消費信貸戰略的一個很好的途徑，我們可以只用預付卡與客戶建立關係。

As we learn more about the customer, their income patterns, spending patterns and savings patterns we can progressively gain more comfort and offered this customer a credit line in a credit card. We usually start, as Youssef mentioned, with a relatively low credit lines through low and grow. And then as the customer builds, he's our whole own kind of a credit history of us, we expand this over time. And you can see that the purchase volume follows this expansion. Usually, purchase volume can triple within the first 24 months, that has been very successful for -- in the form of customer engagement, but also in the form of asset quality. And it's probably a formula that we expect to continue to pursue in the coming years.

隨著我們更多地了解客戶、他們的收入模式、消費模式和儲蓄模式，我們可以逐漸獲得更多安慰，並為該客戶提供信用卡信用額度。正如優素福提到的，我們通常從相對較低的信貸額度開始，一直到低位並增長。然後，隨著客戶的建立，他就是我們自己的信用記錄，隨著時間的推移，我們會擴展它。你可以看到購買量是隨著這種擴張而變化的。通常，購買量在前 24 個月內會增加兩倍，這在客戶參與度和資產質量方面都非常成功。這可能是我們期望在未來幾年繼續追求的一個公式。

And in the name of Nu Holdings and its management team, I'd like to thank you all for the participation in this conference call. Over the coming days, our team will be responding to the questions sent through our webcast and e-mail. We also take the opportunity to make our whole IR team available to any further questions you might have. And this concludes our earnings call. Have you all a good night.

我謹以 Nu Holdings 及其管理團隊的名義，感謝大家參加本次電話會議。在接下來的幾天裡，我們的團隊將回复通過網絡廣播和電子郵件發送的問題。我們還藉此機會讓我們的整個 IR 團隊隨時解答您可能提出的任何進一步問題。我們的財報電話會議到此結束。祝大家有個美好的夜晚。

The Nu Holdings conference call has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Nu Holdings 電話會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連接。