Nu Holdings Ltd (NU) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nu Holdings conference call to discuss the results for the fourth quarter of 2022.

女士們先生們，下午好。歡迎參加 Nu Holdings 電話會議，討論 2022 年第四季度的業績。

A slide presentation is accompanying today's webcast, which is available in Nu's Investors Relations website, www.investor.nu, in English and www.investidores.nu in Portuguese. This conference is being recorded, and the replay can also be accessed on the company's IR website. (Operator Instructions) (foreign language)

今天的網絡廣播附有幻燈片演示，可在 Nu 的投資者關係網站 www.investor.nu 的英語版和葡萄牙語版的 www.investidores.nu 上找到。本次會議正在錄製中，重播也可以在公司的 IR 網站上訪問。 （操作說明）（外語）

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer at Nu Holdings. Mr. Friedemann, you may proceed.

我現在想把電話轉給 Nu Holdings 的投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。 Friedemann 先生，您可以繼續。

Thank you very much, operator, and thank you all for joining our earnings call today. If you have not seen our earnings release, a copy is posted in the Results Center section of our Investor Relations website.

非常感謝接線員，也感謝大家今天參加我們的財報電話會議。如果您還沒有看到我們的收益發布，我們的投資者關係網站的結果中心部分會發布一份副本。

With me on today's call are David Velez, our Founder, Chief Executive Officer and Chairman; Youssef Lahrech, our President and Chief Operating Officer; and Guilherme Lago, our Chief Financial Officer. Additionally, Jag Duggal, our Chief Product Officer, will join us for the Q&A session of the call.

和我一起參加今天電話會議的有我們的創始人、首席執行官兼董事長大衛·貝萊斯 (David Velez)；我們的總裁兼首席運營官 Youssef Lahrech；和我們的首席財務官 Guilherme Lago。此外，我們的首席產品官 Jag Duggal 將加入我們的電話問答環節。

Throughout this conference call, we will be presenting non-IFRS financial information, including adjusted net income. These are important financial measures for the company, but are not financial measures as defined by IFRS. Reconciliations of the company's non-IFRS financial information to the IFRS financial information are available in our earnings press release. Unless noted otherwise, all growth rates are on a year-on-year FX neutral basis.

在整個電話會議中，我們將提供非 IFRS 財務信息，包括調整後的淨收入。這些是公司的重要財務指標，但不是 IFRS 定義的財務指標。公司的非 IFRS 財務信息與 IFRS 財務信息的調節可在我們的收益新聞稿中找到。除非另有說明，否則所有增長率均按年同比匯率中性計算。

I would also like to remind everyone that today's discussion might include forward-looking statements, which are not guarantees of future performance and, therefore, you should not put undue reliance on them. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties, and could cause actual results to differ materially from the company's expectations. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in the company's earnings press release.

我還想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述不是未來業績的保證，因此您不應過分依賴它們。這些陳述受眾多風險和不確定因素的影響，並可能導致實際結果與公司預期存在重大差異。請參閱公司財報新聞稿中披露的前瞻性陳述。

Today, our Founder and CEO, David Velez, will discuss the main highlights of our fourth quarter 2022 results and some of the opportunities ahead. Subsequently, Guilherme Lago, our CFO; and Youssef Lahrech, our President and COO, will take you through our financial and operating performance for the quarter, after which time, we will be happy to take your questions.

今天，我們的創始人兼首席執行官 David Velez 將討論我們 2022 年第四季度業績的主要亮點以及未來的一些機遇。隨後，我們的首席財務官 Guilherme Lago；我們的總裁兼首席運營官 Youssef Lahrech 將向您介紹本季度的財務和運營業績，之後，我們將很樂意回答您的問題。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to David. David, please go ahead.

現在我想把電話轉給大衛。大衛，請繼續。

Thank you, Jorg. Hello, everyone. Thank you for being with us today. Once again, I am happy to share that Nu posted another record quarter, showing continued growth across all our metrics, including meaningful increase in profitability. We will also be disclosing numbers for Nu Brazil specifically today, which we think show a very exciting picture.

謝謝你，約爾格。大家好。感謝您今天與我們在一起。我再次很高興地與大家分享，Nu 發布了另一個創紀錄的季度，顯示我們所有指標的持續增長，包括盈利能力的顯著增長。我們還將在今天特別披露 Nu Brazil 的數據，我們認為這展示了一幅非常令人興奮的畫面。

We welcomed more than 4 million customers to our platform this quarter, and we now have close to 75 million clients across our 3 geos, posting a growth of 38% year-on-year. We're now the fifth largest financial institution in Brazil and the sixth largest financial institution in Latin America in terms of number of customers.

本季度我們迎來了超過 400 萬客戶使用我們的平台，現在我們在 3 個地區擁有近 7500 萬客戶，同比增長 38%。就客戶數量而言，我們現在是巴西第五大金融機構和拉丁美洲第六大金融機構。

Let's now dive into the main operating highlights of the quarter and of the year. During the fourth quarter, our revenue amounted to almost $1.5 billion, growing 112% year-over-year. The triple-digit expansion in revenues is the compounded effect of the strong expansion of our active customer base in Brazil, with our ability to cross-sell products and faster client engagement.

現在讓我們深入了解本季度和本年度的主要運營亮點。第四季度，我們的收入接近 15 億美元，同比增長 112%。收入的三位數增長是我們在巴西活躍客戶群的強勁擴張、我們交叉銷售產品的能力和更快的客戶參與的複合效應。

Nu also expanded gross profit by 137% year-over-year to $578.3 million in the fourth quarter of 2022. The significant expansion of our gross profit margin, which reached 40% this quarter, up from 36% in the fourth quarter of 2021, reinforce the operational leverage capacity of our business and the strong execution of our team.

Nu 在 2022 年第四季度的毛利潤也同比增長 137% 至 5.783 億美元。我們的毛利率顯著擴大，本季度達到 40%，高於 2021 年第四季度的 36%，增強我們業務的運營槓桿能力和我們團隊的強大執行力。

In 2022, we succeeded both in terms of pricing adequately credit products, amidst adverse conditions, and adapting our funding cost to deal with much higher-than-expected interest rates. As a result, Nu Holdings delivered an adjusted net income of $113.8 million in the fourth quarter of 2022, up from $3.2 million in the fourth quarter of 2021.

2022 年，我們成功地在不利條件下為信貸產品定價，並調整融資成本以應對遠高於預期的利率。因此，Nu Holdings 2022 年第四季度的調整後淨收入為 1.138 億美元，高於 2021 年第四季度的 320 萬美元。

The Brazilian operations highlighted in the right side of the slide continue to mature and contribute meaningfully to these results, with 93% of our revenues generated by this geo.

幻燈片右側突出顯示的巴西業務繼續成熟並為這些結果做出有意義的貢獻，我們 93% 的收入來自該地區。

Adjusted profit for the Brazilian operations reached $157.7 million in Q4 of 2022, up from a loss of $3.8 million during the fourth quarter of 2021. Our progress in Brazil illustrates our business model is able to start generating meaningful profits, while growing revenue over 100%.

巴西業務的調整後利潤在 2022 年第四季度達到 1.577 億美元，高於 2021 年第四季度的虧損 380 萬美元。我們在巴西取得的進展表明我們的商業模式能夠開始產生可觀的利潤，同時收入增長超過 100% .

The beginnings of Nu were based on the unbundling of financial services back in 2013. Now our most important business opportunities rest on the rebundling of financial services by building a diversified multiproduct, multi-segment and multi-country portfolio of businesses. As you can see on this slide, even our adjacent businesses already achieved a notable figure of 1 million customers, attesting the company's cross-sell capacity.

Nu 的開端是基於 2013 年的金融服務分拆。現在，我們最重要的商業機會在於通過建立多元化的多產品、多部門和多國家業務組合來重新組合金融服務。正如您在這張幻燈片上看到的，即使是我們的相鄰業務也已經達到了 100 萬客戶的顯著數字，證明了公司的交叉銷售能力。

Despite the growing scale of our core products, Nu is still in the early days of its product development life cycle. That said, the signs of the inflection of the S curve for our products are already clear. This slide is meant to show 2 things. First, the face in which we developed and launched our product has accelerated over time. Second, our product portfolio is well positioned to deliver multiple years of strong growth.

儘管我們的核心產品規模不斷擴大，但 Nu 仍處於其產品開發生命週期的早期階段。也就是說，我們產品的 S 曲線拐點已經很明顯了。這張幻燈片旨在展示兩件事。首先，我們開發和推出產品的速度隨著時間的推移而加快。其次，我們的產品組合處於有利地位，可以實現多年的強勁增長。

While Nu accounts and credit cards have just reached the inflection points of their growth stages, most of our other products are at earlier stages of their life cycles, suggesting still high levels of upsell and cross-sell potential for multiple sources and for years to come.

雖然 Nu 賬戶和信用卡剛剛達到其增長階段的拐點，但我們的大多數其他產品都處於其生命週期的早期階段，這表明在未來幾年內，多個來源的追加銷售和交叉銷售潛力仍然很高.

We will continue to expand our platform with disruptive products that further strengthen our relationship with our customers and enable us to acquire increasing levels of customer principality and share of wallet across all demographic segments, where most important launches in 2023 include the expansion of organic products in Brazil into secure lines, such as public payroll, and the launching of savings accounts in both Mexico and Colombia.

我們將繼續通過顛覆性產品擴展我們的平台，進一步加強我們與客戶的關係，並使我們能夠在所有人口細分市場中獲得更高水平的客戶主體和錢包份額，其中 2023 年最重要的推出包括有機產品的擴展巴西進入安全線路，例如公共工資單，並在墨西哥和哥倫比亞開設儲蓄賬戶。

Just as Nu is in the early days of its product development life cycle, it is also in the early days of its international expansion. Over the past decade, we have successfully expanded our operations in Brazil, having reached a customer base that represents 44% of the adult population of the country. It is inevitable that our customer growth in Brazil over the coming years will be lower than what we experienced over the last years.

正如 Nu 處於其產品開發生命週期的早期階段一樣，它也處於國際擴張的早期階段。在過去十年中，我們成功擴大了在巴西的業務，客戶群佔該國成年人口的 44%。未來幾年，我們在巴西的客戶增長不可避免地會低於過去幾年的水平。

Our growth in Brazil will progressively pivot from customer acquisition into customer monetization. Conversely, however, we're still at the early stages of the customer acquisition life cycle in Mexico and Colombia, countries in which our penetrations are still low, but early signs of performance are extremely encouraging.

我們在巴西的增長將從客戶獲取逐步轉向客戶貨幣化。然而，相反，我們仍處於墨西哥和哥倫比亞客戶獲取生命週期的早期階段，我們在這些國家的滲透率仍然很低，但早期的業績跡象非常令人鼓舞。

Mexico and Colombia are beating Brazil on practically every single customer growth and engagement metric. They're growing faster and showing NPS levels higher than those of Brazil. In both of these countries, we have already become the top issuer of Nu credit cards. The stages of development for 3 geos are complementary and expected to provide Nu with very strong growth engines for years to come.

墨西哥和哥倫比亞幾乎在每一個客戶增長和參與度指標上都擊敗了巴西。他們的增長速度更快，並且顯示出比巴西更高的 NPS 水平。在這兩個國家，我們已經成為 Nu 信用卡的最大發行商。 3 geos 的發展階段是互補的，預計將為 Nu 在未來幾年提供非常強勁的增長引擎。

To better showcase the earnings potential of our model, we want to spend a few minutes digging specifically into our Brazil business, which continues to show very strong top line traction and also meaningful bottom line profitability.

為了更好地展示我們模型的盈利潛力，我們想花幾分鐘時間專門研究一下我們的巴西業務，該業務繼續顯示出非常強勁的頂線牽引力和有意義的底線盈利能力。

Over the past 4 years, we expanded our client base in Brazil by (inaudible) having reached a penetration of 44% of the adult population of the country. 70% to 80% of the clients came to Nu through organic channels, mostly member to member, providing us with strong growth (inaudible) and one of the lowest customer acquisition costs among fintechs and incumbent banks globally. We have been successfully applying the same playbook in Mexico and Colombia.

在過去的 4 年裡，我們擴大了在巴西的客戶群（聽不清），滲透率達到了該國 44% 的成年人口。 70% 到 80% 的客戶通過有機渠道來到 Nu，主要是會員到會員，為我們提供了強勁的增長（聽不清），並且是全球金融科技和現有銀行中客戶獲取成本最低的之一。我們已在墨西哥和哥倫比亞成功應用相同的劇本。

The compounding effect of customer growth and higher levels of customer monetization have resulted in strong top line in Brazil. In the fourth quarter of 2022, our Brazilian operations recorded $1.4 billion in revenue, 110% year-on-year growth, and a gross profit margin of 44%.

客戶增長和更高水平的客戶貨幣化的複合效應導致巴西的收入強勁。 2022 年第四季度，我們的巴西業務收入為 14 億美元，同比增長 110%，毛利率為 44%。

Adjusted net income grew progressively over the past quarters, reaching $158 million in the fourth quarter of 2022 for an annualized adjusted return on tangible equity of 58% and an annualized return on equity of 40%. Although part of this number was positively impacted by the seasonal effects observed in the first quarter of the year, such as higher purchase volume and lower cost of funding, one can see that the profitability of our operations in Brazil has reached an inflection point and already positioning us among one of the financial institutions with the highest return on capital in the country.

調整後淨收入在過去幾個季度逐步增長，到 2022 年第四季度達到 1.58 億美元，年化調整後有形股本回報率為 58%，年化股本回報率為 40%。儘管這一數字的一部分受到今年第一季度觀察到的季節性影響的積極影響，例如更高的採購量和更低的融資成本，但可以看出我們在巴西業務的盈利能力已經達到拐點，並且已經使我們成為該國資本回報率最高的金融機構之一。

But we believe we're still in the early stages of the development of our bank in the country, with still significant upside in terms of both top line growth and operating leverage.

但我們認為，我們的銀行在該國的發展仍處於早期階段，在營收增長和經營槓桿方面仍有顯著上升空間。

Finally, this slide details the outcome of our strategy in Brazil and at the holding level. The viral expansion of our customer base, combined with our successful cross-selling and upselling strategies, have driven strong profitability in our Brazil business. The fourth quarter that is positively affected by seasonality, Nu Brazil posted a return on tangible equity of 25% and a return on equity of 15% for the full year of 2022, even considering the losses reported in the first quarter of the year.

最後，這張幻燈片詳細介紹了我們在巴西和控股層面的戰略成果。我們客戶群的病毒式擴張，加上我們成功的交叉銷售和追加銷售策略，推動了我們巴西業務的強勁盈利能力。受季節性影響的第四季度，Nu Brazil 公佈了 25% 的有形股本回報率和 2022 年全年的 15% 股本回報率，即使考慮到今年第一季度報告的虧損也是如此。

While 2022 was a challenging year macro-wise and very critical for us as we build trust as a newly formed company, we could not be more proud of our 2022 results, which largely exceeded our internal expectations. The execution capability of the entire Nu team was very strong, and we proved that it is possible to maintain an accelerated rate of growth as we gain share in every product vertical and geography, while keeping credit delinquency in check, improving operating leverage and ultimately showing strong profitability.

雖然從宏觀角度來看，2022 年是充滿挑戰的一年，對我們作為一家新成立的公司建立信任來說非常關鍵，但我們對 2022 年的業績感到非常自豪，這在很大程度上超出了我們的內部預期。整個 Nu 團隊的執行力非常強，我們證明了隨著我們在每個產品垂直和地域中獲得份額，保持加速增長是可能的，同時控制信貸拖欠，提高經營槓桿並最終顯示強大的盈利能力。

For these achievements, as important as they are, represent only the first steps of where we can deliver in the future. Once our new geos mature and, similarly to Brazil, scale further and start to compound the profitability potential that our model creates.

因為這些成就雖然重要，但僅代表我們未來可以實現的目標的第一步。一旦我們的新地理區域成熟，並且與巴西類似，進一步擴大規模並開始復合我們模型創造的盈利潛力。

With that, I would like to pass the floor to our CFO, Guilherme Lago, who will walk you through more details of our results. Thank you.

有了這個，我想請我們的首席財務官 Guilherme Lago 發言，他將向您介紹我們結果的更多細節。謝謝。

Thanks, David, and good evening, everyone. To better frame the discussion around our year-end results, I would like to recap the 3 key elements of our simple and powerful value-generating strategy. Number one, continue to grow our customer base in the markets in which we operate, Brazil, Mexico and Colombia, and quickly converting new customers into active ones; two, expanding average revenue per active customer, or ARPAC, through both cross-sell and upsell; and three, delivering growth while maintaining one of the lowest cost operating platforms in the industry. Our fourth quarter results show positive evolution in each one of these 3 pillars.

謝謝，大衛，大家晚上好。為了更好地圍繞我們的年終業績展開討論，我想回顧一下我們簡單而強大的價值創造戰略的 3 個關鍵要素。第一，繼續擴大我們在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞等運營市場的客戶群，並迅速將新客戶轉化為活躍客戶；第二，通過交叉銷售和追加銷售擴大每位活躍客戶的平均收入 (ARPAC)；第三，在保持行業成本最低的運營平台之一的同時實現增長。我們第四季度的業績顯示，這三大支柱中的每一個都有積極的發展。

Let's start with the first pillar of our strategy, customer acquisition. In the fourth quarter, we added 4.2 million and ended the year with 74.6 million customers, a 38% increase year-over-year. In Brazil, we are steadily adding between 1 million and 1.5 million customers per month, the vast majority of which still come from referrals, which lowers the acquisition cost and accelerates activation.

讓我們從我們戰略的第一個支柱開始，即客戶獲取。第四季度，我們增加了 420 萬客戶，到年底客戶數量達到 7460 萬，同比增長 38%。在巴西，我們每月穩步增加 100 萬到 150 萬客戶，其中絕大多數仍然來自推薦，這降低了獲取成本並加速了激活。

In Mexico, we surpassed 3.2 million customers by the end of the quarter. As per the last available data for 2022, Nu's market share in terms of new cards issued in the country approached 29%, while share of purchase volumes for credit cards already achieved 5%.

在墨西哥，截至本季度末，我們的客戶已超過 320 萬。根據 2022 年的最新數據，Nu 在該國發行的新卡市場份額接近 29%，而信用卡購買量份額已達到 5%。

Our strongest growth in relative terms was in Colombia, where our customer base reached nearly 600,000. In Colombia, Nu accounted for 38% of the number of new cards in 2022, as per the latest available information, with 2% market share in terms of purchase volumes for credit cards.

相對而言，我們增長最快的是哥倫比亞，我們的客戶群達到近 600,000。根據最新的可用信息，在哥倫比亞，Nu 佔 2022 年新卡數量的 38%，就信用卡購買量而言，市場份額為 2%。

The second part of this pillar is activation, where we continue to drive higher levels in the fourth quarter. Our overall monthly activity rate reached 81.9%, 5.6 percentage points higher year-over-year and the 11th consecutive quarter of sequential increase. We are seeing positive and increasing momentum in activity in all of the 3 markets in which we operate, despite their different stages on the S curve.

這個支柱的第二部分是激活，我們在第四季度繼續推動更高的水平。我們的整體月活動率達到 81.9%，同比提高 5.6 個百分點，連續第 11 個季度環比增長。我們在我們運營的所有 3 個市場中都看到了積極且不斷增長的活動勢頭，儘管它們處於 S 曲線的不同階段。

Let's move to the second pillar in our strategy, revenue generation. The 3 charts on this slide show a clear relationship. Let's start with the chart on the left. We are very proud that as of the end of 2022, 58% of our active customers have chosen Nu as their primary banking account, or PBA. This is the holy grail of the financial services business and the cornerstone of our model, for 3 simple reasons.

讓我們轉向我們戰略的第二個支柱，創收。這張幻燈片上的 3 個圖表顯示出清晰的關係。讓我們從左邊的圖表開始。我們感到非常自豪的是，截至 2022 年底，我們 58% 的活躍客戶選擇 Nu 作為他們的主要銀行賬戶，即 PBA。由於三個簡單的原因，這是金融服務業務的聖杯和我們模型的基石。

Number one, PBA customers generate ARPACs that are much higher than those of non-PBA customers. Number two, PBA customers present 90-day NPLs that are much lower than those of non-PBA customers. And three, PBA customers also have lower levels of price elasticity and adverse selections than those of non-PBA customers.

第一，PBA 客戶產生的 ARPAC 遠高於非 PBA 客戶。第二，PBA 客戶提供的 90 天不良貸款遠低於非 PBA 客戶。第三，與非 PBA 客戶相比，PBA 客戶的價格彈性和逆向選擇水平也較低。

The number of PBA customers underscores the development of a model that effectively engages and serves our customers with multiple products and throughout all stages of their life cycle. It begins with how we attract clients, which is through a powerful engine based on customer referrals.

PBA 客戶的數量強調了一種模型的開發，該模型通過多種產品並貫穿其生命週期的所有階段有效地吸引和服務我們的客戶。它始於我們如何吸引客戶，這是通過基於客戶推薦的強大引擎。

The more customers use Nu as its primary bank account, the greater the number of products they use and the higher the monthly ARPAC they generate. With every cohort, we have been able to accelerate the pace at which Nu becomes the primary bank account of our customers.

使用 Nu 作為其主要銀行賬戶的客戶越多，他們使用的產品數量就越多，他們產生的每月 ARPAC 就越高。對於每個隊列，我們都能夠加快 Nu 成為客戶主要銀行賬戶的步伐。

We have also been able to accelerate the pace at which our customers use our products. These 2 factors compounds to speed up ARPAC for newer accounts and also helping to push up the overall ARPAC of the company.

我們還能夠加快客戶使用我們產品的速度。這兩個因素共同加速了新客戶的 ARPAC，也有助於提升公司的整體 ARPAC。

For the fourth quarter, our monthly ARPAC continued to increase and achieved $8.2 per month, pushed by both the increase in cross-selling and upselling of our new cohorts and the maturation of our older cohorts, whose average ARPAC reached $23 per month.

在第四季度，我們的月度 ARPAC 繼續增長並達到每月 8.2 美元，這得益於我們新群體的交叉銷售和追加銷售的增加以及我們老群體的成熟，其平均 ARPAC 達到每月 23 美元。

We can see in this slide that our monthly ARPAC continues to grow sequentially, expanding 37% year-over-year. The higher number of active clients, combined with higher ARPAC, prompt the sustained growth in our revenues.

我們可以在這張幻燈片中看到，我們的月度 ARPAC 繼續連續增長，同比增長 37%。活躍客戶數量的增加，加上 ARPAC 的增加，促使我們的收入持續增長。

Revenue grew 112% year-over-year to $1.5 billion, another record high. Our revenue in 2022 was nearly 3x higher than in 2021 and almost 7x higher than in 2020.

收入同比增長 112% 至 15 億美元，再創歷史新高。我們 2022 年的收入比 2021 年高出近 3 倍，比 2020 年高出近 7 倍。

Now turning to the cards business. We continue to experience strong growth with purchase volumes up 54% year-over-year to $24 billion. In 2022, purchase volumes reached $81 billion, an 85% increase over 2021, demonstrating the power of our product cross-sell, upsell and customer engagement capabilities.

現在轉向卡片業務。我們繼續保持強勁增長，採購量同比增長 54% 至 240 億美元。 2022 年，採購量達到 810 億美元，比 2021 年增長 85%，展示了我們產品交叉銷售、追加銷售和客戶參與能力的強大力量。

Most of the purchase volumes continue to come from our older cohorts of customers, which span 3 to 4x as much per month as recent cohorts. While there is a difference from the outset between newer and older cohorts, as shown chart on the right-hand side, both show a clear upward trends of consumption over time.

大部分購買量繼續來自我們的老客戶群，他們每月的購買量是新客戶群的 3 到 4 倍。儘管從一開始，新舊人群之間就存在差異，但如右圖所示，隨著時間的推移，兩者都顯示出明顯的消費上升趨勢。

On average, credit card spend for a customer who has been with us for more than 24 months triples. We expect the substantial amount of clients we added in the last 2 years to increase their purchase volumes with our cards, as their relationships with us continue to mature.

平均而言，與我們合作超過 24 個月的客戶的信用卡支出增加了三倍。隨著他們與我們的關係不斷成熟，我們預計我們在過去兩年中增加的大量客戶將增加他們使用我們的卡購買的數量。

Our consumer finance portfolio composed of credit card and personal loans reached $11 billion, a 62% expansion over year-end 2021. Our credit story has 2 tales. On the one hand, credit cards continue to grow strongly at 69% year-over-year, as more clients are added to our ecosystem, and our loan draw methodology plays out.

我們由信用卡和個人貸款組成的消費金融組合達到 110 億美元，比 2021 年底增長 62%。我們的信用故事有兩個故事。一方面，隨著越來越多的客戶加入我們的生態系統，以及我們的貸款提取方法發揮作用，信用卡繼續以 69% 的同比增長率強勁增長。

On the other hand, we have been more cautious with the originations in the personal loan portfolio aligned with the higher risk of this product. Originations and personal loans increased slightly, and the overall book grew sequentially during the fourth quarter to $2 billion.

另一方面，我們對與該產品較高風險相一致的個人貸款組合的來源更加謹慎。發放貸款和個人貸款略有增加，第四季度整體賬面環比增長至 20 億美元。

The base of growth has been lower than that of credit cards at 33% year-over-year. But with the ongoing performance of the book, we expect this to accelerate over the coming quarters.

增長基數低於信用卡，同比增長 33%。但隨著這本書的持續表現，我們預計這將在未來幾個季度加速。

Now let's review in more details the evolution of our credit card portfolio and the originations of our personal loans. We continue to pursue our strategy of increasing the share of our credit card loans that earn interest, closing the gap as compared to the market. We have narrowed this gap by offering our customers interest-earning installment loans on their credit cards, which, as of the fourth quarter, surpassed market levels and represented 12% of our credit card loan book.

現在讓我們更詳細地回顧一下我們信用卡組合的演變和我們個人貸款的來源。我們繼續奉行增加賺取利息的信用卡貸款份額的戰略，縮小與市場的差距。我們通過向客戶的信用卡提供生息分期貸款來縮小這一差距，截至第四季度，該貸款超過市場水平，占我們信用卡貸款賬目的 12%。

We see attractive risk-adjusted rates of returns on this type of finance. It allows us to monetize our credit card business beyond simple fee generation and fulfill our customer need. At the same time, we have been intentional in not expanding our share of revolving receivables, which continues at 7% of our total receivables and once again widened the gap versus the market, whose revolving, now accounts for 17% of total receivables.

我們看到此類融資的風險調整後回報率具有吸引力。它使我們能夠將我們的信用卡業務貨幣化，而不僅僅是簡單的收費，並滿足我們客戶的需求。與此同時，我們一直有意不擴大我們在應收賬款總額中所佔的循環應收賬款份額，它繼續保持在我們應收賬款總額的 7%，並再次擴大與市場的差距，市場上的循環賬款目前占應收賬款總額的 17%。

We base our origination of personal loans on the latest performance of our own cohorts, our assessment of risk going forward, including our judgment of the economic and credit environment. Last year, we increased the resilience we demand from our loan originations, and we have seen positive performance to date, leading to gradual increases in our origination volumes.

我們的個人貸款發放基於我們自己群體的最新表現、我們對未來風險的評估，包括我們對經濟和信貸環境的判斷。去年，我們提高了對貸款發放的彈性要求，迄今為止我們看到了積極的表現，導致我們的發放量逐漸增加。

We expect this trend to continue going forward as long as this positive performance track record persists. Indeed, we continue to see upside in our ability to drive growth in lending in a healthy and profitable manner. We have substantial reach given the size of our customer base. We believe the risk assessment in our platform is best in class, allowing us to deliver superior products and experience to our customers. We also have strong capital base and an ample liquidity to increase our leverage.

只要這種積極的業績記錄持續存在，我們預計這種趨勢將繼續下去。事實上，我們繼續看到我們以健康和盈利的方式推動貸款增長的能力。鑑於我們的客戶群規模，我們的影響力很大。我們相信我們平台的風險評估是一流的，使我們能夠為客戶提供卓越的產品和體驗。我們還擁有強大的資本基礎和充足的流動性來增加我們的槓桿作用。

As market conditions improved and allow our credit risk appetite to increase, we should be able to deploy capital effectively and profitably. This strategy should be reinforced with the upcoming launch of secured lending. In July 2022, we launched Money Boxes, which are personalized investment tools. We also started to remunerate deposits at 100% of the Brazilian interbank deposit rate, but retroactively and only for amounts that remain on deposit for more than 30 days.

隨著市場狀況的改善和我們信用風險偏好的提高，我們應該能夠有效地配置資本並從中獲利。即將推出的擔保貸款應加強這一戰略。 2022 年 7 月，我們推出了個性化投資工具 Money Boxes。我們還開始以巴西銀行同業拆借利率的 100% 償還存款，但具有追溯性且僅適用於存款超過 30 天的金額。

Given their stage rollout, these 2 changes did not materially affect our funding cost in the third quarter. But in the fourth quarter, we started to see the full impact of these changes. In the fourth quarter of 2022, our cost of funding improved to an all-time low of 78% of the interbank deposit rate. This led our financial expenses to decline quarter-over-quarter.

考慮到他們的階段性推出，這兩項變化並未對我們第三季度的融資成本產生實質性影響。但在第四季度，我們開始看到這些變化的全面影響。 2022 年第四季度，我們的融資成本降至銀行間存款利率 78% 的歷史最低點。這導致我們的財務費用環比下降。

We are now starting to unlock the value of the strong liability franchise that has been built over the past years, and our deposit base continued to grow. Deposits increased 55% year-over-year to $16 billion. We have seen no material impact on the deployment of Money Boxes or the changes in remunerations on our deposits inflow. The success of this new strategy already has had an important effect on our profitability for the fourth quarter and should be recurring in the subsequent quarters.

我們現在開始釋放過去幾年建立的強大責任特許經營權的價值，我們的存款基礎繼續增長。存款同比增長 55% 至 160 億美元。我們沒有發現 Money Boxes 的部署或薪酬變化對我們的存款流入有任何實質性影響。這一新戰略的成功已經對我們第四季度的盈利能力產生了重要影響，並且應該會在隨後的幾個季度再次出現。

The successful implementation of our new funding strategy, combined with the continued growth of our credit portfolio, made a meaningful contribution to our results in the fourth quarter. This is most feasible in our net interest income, or NII. Our NII reached $688 million this quarter, growing 30% quarter-over-quarter. The improvement in our cost of funding helped increase in our net interest margin, or NIM, 2.4 percentage points over the level of the third quarter to a record high of 13.5%.

我們新融資戰略的成功實施，加上我們信貸組合的持續增長，為我們第四季度的業績做出了重大貢獻。這在我們的淨利息收入或 NII 中是最可行的。本季度我們的 NII 達到 6.88 億美元，環比增長 30%。我們融資成本的改善幫助我們的淨息差 (NIM) 比第三季度增加了 2.4 個百分點，達到 13.5% 的歷史新高。

While we can attribute much of the recent gains in net interest margins to our new funding strategy, we expect this trend respective seasonality, which is especially strong in the fourth quarter, to continue going forward based on 3 factors: number one, the growth in our credit portfolio, which should surpass that of our deposits; number two, the adequate pricing of our credit products as we continue to build underwriting resilience with pricing; and number three, the improved mix of our loan book, especially as we resume the growth of our personal loans over the coming quarters.

雖然我們可以將近期淨息差的大部分增長歸功於我們的新融資策略，但我們預計這一趨勢的季節性（在第四季度尤為強勁）將基於 3 個因素繼續向前發展：第一，增長我們的信貸組合，應該超過我們的存款；第二，隨著我們繼續通過定價建立承保彈性，我們信貸產品的適當定價；第三，我們的貸款組合得到改善，尤其是在我們在未來幾個季度恢復個人貸款增長的情況下。

Let's move to the third pillar in our overall strategy, maintaining a low cost to serve. We believe our platform is one of the most cost-effective in serving customers in the markets in which we operate. For the fourth quarter, our cost to serve amounted to $0.90 of the dollar.

讓我們轉向整體戰略的第三個支柱，即保持低成本服務。我們相信，我們的平台是為我們運營所在市場的客戶提供服務的最具成本效益的平台之一。第四季度，我們的服務成本為 0.90 美元。

On a year-over-year comparison, our cost to serve did not grow. This achievement is even more impressive, considering how much we evolved in terms of products per customers and PBAs. Over the same period, our ARPAC increased 37%, clearly illustrating the strong operating leverage of our business model. Looking ahead, as we said in past quarters, we expect our cost to serve to remain at or below the dollar level, as the scale gives us significant operating leverage and bargaining power with our suppliers.

與去年同期相比，我們的服務成本沒有增長。考慮到我們在每個客戶的產品和 PBA 方面取得的進步，這一成就更加令人印象深刻。同期，我們的 ARPAC 增長了 37%，清楚地表明了我們業務模式的強大運營槓桿。展望未來，正如我們在過去幾個季度所說，我們預計我們的成本將保持在或低於美元水平，因為規模為我們提供了重要的運營槓桿和與供應商的議價能力。

In terms of gross profit, we achieved $578 million, up 137% year-over-year, a significant acceleration versus the growth posted last quarter. This level of gross profit was the highest we have ever achieved. At the same time, our gross profit margin of 40%, 4 percentage points higher year-over-year, accelerated the pace of recovery started in the third quarter.

在毛利潤方面，我們實現了 5.78 億美元，同比增長 137%，與上一季度的增長相比顯著加快。這一毛利水平是我們有史以來的最高水平。同時，我們40%的毛利率，同比提高4個百分點，加快了三季度開始的複蘇步伐。

To illustrate how far we have come, our gross profit of $1.7 billion in 2022 is more than 2x higher than of 2021 and nearly 5x higher than of 2020.

為了說明我們已經走了多遠，我們 2022 年的毛利潤為 17 億美元，比 2021 年高出 2 倍多，比 2020 年高出近 5 倍。

Operating leverage is a key element of our strategy, with the full benefits becoming increasingly clear as we advance product penetration and drive revenue growth. This is visible in our efficiency ratio, which improved for the fourth consecutive quarter to reach an all-time low at 47%, or 41% excluding share-based compensation. This is already comparable to the levels of efficiency of Latin American incumbent banks, but it is still far from the potential of our platform that continues to collect the benefits of scale.

經營槓桿是我們戰略的一個關鍵要素，隨著我們提高產品滲透率和推動收入增長，全部好處變得越來越明顯。這在我們的效率比中可見一斑，該效率比連續第四個季度有所改善，達到 47% 的歷史最低水平，不包括基於股份的薪酬為 41%。這已經可以與拉丁美洲現有銀行的效率水平相媲美，但仍遠未達到我們平台繼續收集規模效益的潛力。

We expect our operating leverage to continue to be captured as our scale increases, although there might be seasonal variations affecting this number. In the fourth quarter, in particular, our platform benefited from stronger purchase volumes and deposit inflows.

我們預計，隨著我們規模的擴大，我們的經營槓桿將繼續得到體現，儘管這個數字可能會受到季節性變化的影響。特別是在第四季度，我們的平台受益於強勁的購買量和存款流入。

Now moving on to the bottom line. We posted another quarter of improving bottom line performance. In the fourth quarter of 2022, our adjusted net income and net income amounted to $114 million and $58 million, respectively. These results are encouraging as they serve to validate our strategy and our business model.

現在轉到底線。我們公佈了另一個季度的改善底線績效。 2022 年第四季度，我們調整後的淨收入和淨收入分別為 1.14 億美元和 5800 萬美元。這些結果令人鼓舞，因為它們有助於驗證我們的戰略和商業模式。

However, we reinforce that we look at our business with a view towards long-term value creation, which may require us to make additional investments in the short term to optimize our long-term opportunities, and we expect to continue managing the company this way.

然而，我們強調，我們從創造長期價值的角度看待我們的業務，這可能需要我們在短期內進行額外投資以優化我們的長期機會，我們希望繼續以這種方式管理公司.

We see this fourth quarter and the year of 2022 as a whole as evidence of our sustainable cost advantages. On cost to acquire, we added over 20 million customers during 2022 and presented one of the lowest customer acquisition costs among fintechs and banks globally.

我們將第四季度和整個 2022 年視為我們可持續成本優勢的證據。在獲取成本方面，我們在 2022 年增加了超過 2000 萬客戶，是全球金融科技和銀行中客戶獲取成本最低的公司之一。

On cost to serve, we held it constant on an FX-neutral basis throughout the entire 2022, despite the inflationary pressures in the countries in which we operate and increasing levels of customer engagement.

在服務成本方面，我們在整個 2022 年在外匯中性的基礎上保持不變，儘管我們經營所在國家/地區存在通脹壓力並且客戶參與度不斷提高。

On cost of risk, we successfully managed the risk in our credit portfolio in a very challenging backdrop and continue to outperform competitors when comparing apples-to-apples. Youssef will provide more details on that shortly.

在風險成本方面，我們在極具挑戰性的背景下成功地管理了信貸組合中的風險，並在同類比較中繼續優於競爭對手。 Youssef 將很快提供更多詳細信息。

On cost of funding, we began to unlock the potential of our deposit franchise, starting to close the negative gap we had against incumbent banks and widening the positive gap we have against fintechs.

在資金成本方面，我們開始釋放存款業務的潛力，開始縮小與現有銀行的負差距，並擴大與金融科技公司的正差距。

As we go into 2023, we expect the trends from the fourth quarter to continue to gain traction. In particular, we emphasize our ability to develop and scale best-in-class products, expand internationally and operate at very low costs.

隨著我們進入 2023 年，我們預計第四季度的趨勢將繼續受到關注。我們特別強調我們開發和擴展一流產品、進行國際擴張以及以極低的成本運營的能力。

Now I would like to turn the call over to Youssef, our President and Chief Operating Officer, who will walk you through some of the highlights of our asset quality.

現在我想把電話轉給我們的總裁兼首席運營官 Youssef，他將向您介紹我們資產質量的一些亮點。

Thank you, Lago. Let me take you through some key indicators of asset quality and overall credit portfolio health for the fourth quarter of 2022.

謝謝你，拉戈。讓我帶您了解一下 2022 年第四季度資產質量和整體信貸組合健康狀況的一些關鍵指標。

Let us start with overall NPL trends. Our early delinquency indicator, NPL 15 to 90, improved this quarter by 50 basis points, reaching 3.7%. This was driven by 2 many factors. Number one, the improvement in the credit performance of our personal loans portfolio in response to the management actions taken in Q2. And second, the favorable seasonality that takes place during the fourth quarter when early delinquencies usually trough. It is important to note that, that trough is usually accompanied by a rebound in early delinquency rates during the first quarter of each year.

讓我們從總體不良貸款趨勢開始。我們早期的拖欠指標，不良貸款 15 至 90，本季度改善了 50 個基點，達到 3.7%。這是由兩個因素驅動的。第一，我們個人貸款組合的信用表現有所改善，以響應第二季度採取的管理措施。其次，有利的季節性發生在第四季度，此時早期的拖欠率通常處於低谷。值得注意的是，每年第一季度，低谷通常伴隨著早期拖欠率的反彈。

90-plus NPL ratio increased from 4.7% to 5.2%, behaving in line with the expected stacking behavior of these buckets. I want to take this opportunity to reinforce that Nu has never sold delinquent loans, which otherwise would have had a purging effect, thereby artificially lowering delinquency rates.

90 歲以上的不良貸款率從 4.7% 上升到 5.2%，這與這些桶的預期堆積行為一致。我想藉此機會強調 Nu 從未出售拖欠貸款，否則會產生清洗效果，從而人為地降低拖欠率。

With respect to loan renegotiations, they remain at around 7% of our book, with approximately half of those coming from current and not past Nu customers at the time of renegotiation.

關於貸款重新談判，它們仍然占我們賬面的 7% 左右，其中大約一半來自重新談判時當前而非過去的 Nu 客戶。

For the credit card portfolio, these 6 graphs show the time series of NPL by income band, where the purple line represents Nu and the gray line represents the industry. As we already mentioned during previous calls, and as you can see on these updated charts, we continue to outperform the industry on a like-for-like basis.

對於信用卡組合，這 6 張圖顯示了按收入區間劃分的不良貸款時間序列，其中紫色線代表 Nu，灰色線代表行業。正如我們在之前的電話會議中已經提到的，以及您在這些更新的圖表中看到的那樣，我們在同類基礎上繼續跑贏行業。

For the lower income bands, our comparative advantage is even more pronounced. The gap for each income band continues to widen as you look at the trend over time, demonstrating that our competitive advantage in underwriting remains consistent and sustained.

對於低收入階層，我們的比較優勢更加明顯。隨著時間的推移觀察趨勢，每個收入區間的差距繼續擴大，表明我們在承保方面的競爭優勢保持一致和持續。

Just as in past quarters, provisions continue to grow primarily driven by the growth in our portfolio. We front-load provisions when we originate loans based on the expected losses for the life of the credit, in accordance with IFRS 9's expected loss methodology.

與過去幾個季度一樣，準備金繼續增長，主要受我們投資組合增長的推動。根據 IFRS 9 的預期損失方法，我們在根據信貸期限內的預期損失發放貸款時提前準備好準備金。

This quarter, much of the expansion in our risk-adjusted NIM can be traced back to the improvement in our cost of funding. However, even after adjusting for that factor, we would still see risk-adjusted NIM stronger than that of the third quarter and even stronger compared to that of the fourth quarter of 2021.

本季度，我們經風險調整後的 NIM 的擴張在很大程度上可以追溯到我們融資成本的改善。然而，即使在調整該因素後，我們仍會看到風險調整後的 NIM 強於第三季度，甚至強於 2021 年第四季度。

Having shared these data and perspectives on credit and asset quality, let me now turn the call back to our Founder and CEO, David Velez, for his concluding remarks.

在分享了這些關於信貸和資產質量的數據和觀點之後，現在讓我把電話轉回給我們的創始人兼首席執行官大衛貝萊斯，聽取他的總結髮言。

Thanks, Youssef. It has now been a little over 1 year since our IPO. And despite much more adverse conditions than we could have anticipated, we are proud to have overdelivered on our commitments to the market. Our over 8,000 colleagues delivered these results through an unwavering focus on strong execution, and we thank each and every one of them.

謝謝，優素福。自我們首次公開募股以來已經過去了一年多一點。儘管條件比我們預期的要不利得多，但我們很自豪能夠超額兌現我們對市場的承諾。我們的 8,000 多名同事堅定不移地專注於強大的執行力，從而取得了這些成果，我們感謝他們中的每一位。

Let me now close by summarizing some of the most important changes in the environment. We adapted a strategy to deliver on what has been promised and what lies ahead of us for 2023. First, in late 2021, no one expected the sharp increase in policy rates that skyrocketed to almost 14% in Brazil. To mitigate this, we launched Money Boxes. And 6 months later, we lowered our cost of funding to 78% of the CDI from about 100%, while both deposits and Money Boxes continue to grow sequentially and strongly.

現在讓我總結一下環境中一些最重要的變化。我們調整了一項戰略，以實現 2023 年的承諾和未來的目標。首先，在 2021 年底，沒有人預料到巴西的政策利率會飆升至近 14%。為了緩解這種情況，我們推出了 Money Boxes。 6 個月後，我們將資金成本從大約 100% 降低到 CDI 的 78%，同時存款和 Money Boxes 繼續強勁增長。

Second, with a tougher environment for asset quality in Brazil, we became more restrictive in originating personal loans, while repricing our products and building resilience within our portfolios. In parallel, we accelerated the launch of secured lending with the general launch of payroll lending in Brazil expected in the upcoming quarter. We're confident that this is a disruptive solution for our customers, which will foster growth into different client segments, thus further rebalancing our credit book.

其次，由於巴西資產質量環境更加嚴峻，我們在發起個人貸款方面變得更加嚴格，同時重新定價我們的產品並在我們的投資組合中建立彈性。與此同時，我們加快了擔保貸款的推出，預計下一季度將在巴西全面推出薪資貸款。我們相信這對我們的客戶來說是一個顛覆性的解決方案，它將促進不同客戶群的增長，從而進一步重新平衡我們的信用簿。

Third, we doubled down on smart efficiency moves to foster profitability and showcase the operating leverage of our model. One of these moves was the termination of the CSA, which will save the company $7 million per year. But beyond that, it reinforces how committed Nu as a company is to accelerate value creation for all of our shareholders.

第三，我們加大了智能效率舉措的力度，以提高盈利能力並展示我們模式的運營槓桿。其中一項舉措是終止 CSA，這將為公司每年節省 700 萬美元。但除此之外，它還強化了 Nu 作為一家公司致力於為我們所有股東加速創造價值的決心。

Our efficiency ratio will continue to improve progressively over the coming years, as we capture cost savings opportunities and reduce the rate of headcount growth going forward.

隨著我們抓住成本節約機會並降低未來員工人數增長率，我們的效率比率將在未來幾年繼續逐步提高。

Finally, in 2023, we will prioritize winning our first share of wallet in the upmarket in Brazil, where there remains tremendous opportunity, growing our personal lending book, both secured and unsecured, and expediting the inflection of the growth model in our [new users].

最後，在 2023 年，我們將優先贏得我們在巴西高端市場的第一筆錢包份額，那裡仍然存在巨大的機會，增加我們的有擔保和無擔保個人貸款賬簿，並加快我們 [新用戶] 增長模式的轉變].

Almost 2 million customers with monthly income of BRL 12,000 are already clients of Nu. But our share of wallet with them is currently approximately 10%. In 2023, we will also break into a secured lending market, positioning payroll loans as a core product to complement our personal lending product shelf and widen our growth opportunities in the country.

近 200 萬月收入為 12,000 雷亞爾的客戶已經是 Nu 的客戶。但我們與他們的錢包份額目前約為 10%。 2023 年，我們還將打入擔保貸款市場，將工資貸款定位為核心產品，以補充我們的個人貸款產品架，並擴大我們在該國的增長機會。

Last, but not least, 2023 will be the year in which we launch and deepen the penetration of [Nu Cuenta] in both Mexico and Colombia, we should accelerate the growth and sustainability of our platform in these countries. We will continue investing significantly in both countries as we think the potential price is very significant. We entered 2023 with a lot of strength and are excited to continue proving our model across products and geographies.

最後但同樣重要的是，2023 年將是我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞推出並加深 [Nu Cuenta] 滲透的一年，我們應該加快我們平台在這些國家的增長和可持續性。我們將繼續在這兩個國家進行大量投資，因為我們認為潛在價格非常高。我們以強大的實力進入 2023 年，並很高興繼續在產品和地區證明我們的模式。

We would like to take your questions now. Thank you very much.

我們現在想回答您的問題。非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Jorg Friedemann, Investor Relations Officer.

（操作員說明）我現在想把電話轉給投資者關係官 Jorg Friedemann 先生。

Thank you, operator. And our first question comes from Jorge Kuri, Morgan Stanley.

謝謝你，運營商。我們的第一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Jorge Kuri。

Congrats on the fantastic results, and thanks for the additional disclosure on the Brazil numbers. The profitability at this point is evidently really impressive, so congrats on that.

祝賀取得如此出色的成績，並感謝您對巴西數據的額外披露。此時的盈利能力顯然非常可觀，所以恭喜。

I wanted to ask about the Money Boxes. It was a really positive surprise to see your funding cost at 78% of CDI, down from 95% in the previous quarter. To what extent this is a seasonal improvement based on the fourth quarter excess liquidity that normally comes in customers because of the 13th salary? Or is this sort of like the level from which you could continue to improve in 2023? And what do you think is the opportunity for you to continue to improve that number?

我想問一下存錢罐的事。看到您的資金成本佔 CDI 的 78%，低於上一季度的 95%，這真是一個驚喜。這在多大程度上是基於第四季度通常因 13 薪而流入客戶的流動性過剩的季節性改善？或者這有點像你可以在 2023 年繼續提高的水平？您認為您有什麼機會可以繼續提高這個數字？

If I remember correctly, I think in a couple of public forums, you said that maybe by the end of 2023, the funding cost could be at 80%. But evidently, you were at 78% at the end of last year. So how do you see that evolving?

如果我沒記錯的話，我想在幾個公共論壇上，你說到 2023 年底，資金成本可能會達到 80%。但顯然，去年年底你的支持率為 78%。那麼您如何看待這種演變？

Jorge, thank you so much for your question. We do expect the funding cost to remain largely at the same levels throughout the coming quarters, respective seasonality. As you correctly pointed out, in the fourth quarter of every year, we have the additional flow from the 13th salary, which has, in the month of December 2022, pushed down a little more the cost of funding than would otherwise be expected in a so-called normal month.

豪爾赫，非常感謝你的問題。我們確實預計未來幾個季度的融資成本將基本保持在同一水平，分別是季節性的。正如您正確指出的那樣，在每年的第四季度，我們都有來自第 13 份工資的額外流量，這在 2022 年 12 月壓低了融資成本，這比預期的要多一些所謂平月。

However, we haven't yet seen the full impact of the change in the remuneration. We will only see this in the first quarter of 2023. So with those puts and takes, we do expect that cost of funding at today's levels is a sustainable level for us to see throughout 2023.

然而，我們還沒有看到薪酬變化的全部影響。我們只會在 2023 年第一季度看到這種情況。因此，通過這些投入和投入，我們確實預計目前水平的融資成本是我們在整個 2023 年都能看到的可持續水平。

And our next question comes from the line of Tito Labarta from Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的 Tito Labarta。

Congratulations, pretty impressive results. My question is a little bit on the competitive environment. I'm just looking at -- now you're at 58% of your active client base. You have this primary banking clients already. When we look at the industry, some of your incumbent peers, particularly the ones focused on similar regions, their income levels seem to be suffering a lot more than you are.

恭喜，非常令人印象深刻的結果。我的問題有點關於競爭環境。我只是在看——現在你有 58% 的活躍客戶群。你已經有了這個主要的銀行客戶。當我們審視這個行業時，您的一些現任同行，尤其是那些專注於類似地區的同行，他們的收入水平似乎比您遭受的損失要大得多。

So just to think about what do you think has been able to differentiate you and really manage this credit cycle in a way that many people didn't think you potentially could and be able to deliver the results that you can. And if you could talk a little bit about how competition perhaps is influencing that, that would be helpful if you give some color on that.

所以，想想你認為什麼能夠讓你與眾不同，並以一種許多人認為你不可能並且能夠提供你能提供的結果的方式真正管理這個信用周期。如果你能談談競爭可能如何影響這一點，那麼如果你對此有所說明，那將會很有幫助。

Sure, Tito. Thank you very much for the question. So I think the story that we're playing out is a very different story that the incumbent banks are playing out because, on one end, we have 44% of the adult population in Brazil as a customer, a very meaningful population.

當然，鐵托。非常感謝你的提問。所以我認為我們正在上演的故事與現有銀行正在上演的故事截然不同，因為一方面，我們有 44% 的巴西成年人口作為客戶，這是一個非常有意義的人群。

On the other hand, we have very small market share still in a lot of our products. In credit card, we have something like around 13%. On personal loans, we have about 3%, 4%. So we get to grow within our consumer base, cherry picking the best customers and can continue gaining share, even if the environment is pretty adverse. So that's the first big differentiation.

另一方面，我們在很多產品中的市場份額仍然很小。在信用卡方面，我們大約有 13%。在個人貸款方面，我們大約有 3%、4%。因此，即使環境非常不利，我們也會在我們的消費者群中成長，挑選最好的客戶並繼續獲得份額。所以這是第一個大的區別。

The second consideration is, and this is, I think, a point that perhaps the market hasn't understood that well, we are growing our credit book within our own, what in Brazil called (foreign language) or the closed ocean. We are -- we give credit to customers that uses our primary bank accounts that are getting their salaries in our account, they are using our app to do payments, they're getting an insurance.

第二個考慮是，我認為，這一點可能市場還沒有很好地理解，我們正在我們自己的信用簿中增長，在巴西稱為（外語）或封閉的海洋。我們是——我們向使用我們的主要銀行賬戶的客戶提供信貸，這些客戶在我們的賬戶中獲得他們的工資，他們正在使用我們的應用程序進行付款，他們正在獲得保險。

So that generates a lot of loyalty on one end. That generates a lot of information that we can use for underwriting. We are not providing credit in the open ocean, as a lot of banks have actually done over the past 12 months. There's been a lot of growth in that open ocean. So it's been a different strategy. And as a result, we get to continue to cherrypick within a base that we understand and that we know.

因此，一方面會產生很多忠誠度。這會產生大量信息，我們可以將其用於承保。我們並沒有像許多銀行在過去 12 個月中所做的那樣，在公海提供信貸。在那片開闊的海洋中有很多增長。所以這是一個不同的策略。結果，我們將繼續在我們了解和了解的基礎上進行挑選。

The third consideration is we've actually always looked to provide products that are very good for consumers, and we've been very careful about taking into account ratios on household debt. So just to give you one data point. The -- on the credit card product, we don't think revolving as a product is a good product for consumers to finance. It's a very high interest rate. Consumers enter into that product, and they ultimately end up getting very high losses.

第三個考慮因素是，我們實際上一直在尋求提供對消費者非常有利的產品，而且我們一直非常謹慎地考慮家庭債務比率。所以只給你一個數據點。 --關於信用卡產品，我們不認為循環產品是消費者進行融資的好產品。這是一個非常高的利率。消費者進入該產品，最終損失慘重。

So as a result, we look for customers that pay on time. We've always look for customers that pay their bill on time. If we could choose, we could only get we get 100% customers that pay on time. And as a result, what you see is in the market, about 70% of customers -- yes, of the incumbent banks getting to their revolver. For us, it's only 7%.

因此，我們尋找按時付款的客戶。我們一直在尋找按時付款的客戶。如果我們可以選擇，我們只能得到 100% 按時付款的客戶。結果，你在市場上看到的是，大約 70% 的客戶——是的，現有銀行開始使用他們的左輪手槍。對我們來說，只有7%。

So we end up with a consumer base that is healthier, that is less leveraged, that is -- provides more data to give us information around underwriting, and that we ultimately get to cherrypick to provide credit and continue to grow, even if the environment as a big headline is adverse and generates some risk.

因此，我們最終得到了一個更健康、槓桿率更低的消費者基礎，也就是說——提供了更多的數據來為我們提供有關承保的信息，我們最終會選擇 cherrypick 來提供信貸並繼續增長，即使環境因為大標題是不利的並且會產生一些風險。

Regardless of that, we did though decided to take it a little bit slower, as you saw in 2022, especially in consumer lending, which has a newer product. But as you will see -- as you see here on the delinquency numbers in Q4, which ended up being better than we expected, even though there is some seasonality, we already started growth again and feel comfortable that we can start tweaking up the growth on the lending side, but we will be monitoring this very closely. And if the environment shifts, we are very, very agile and can shift very quickly as well.

儘管如此，我們確實決定放慢速度，正如您在 2022 年看到的那樣，尤其是在擁有更新產品的消費貸款方面。但正如您將看到的——正如您在此處看到的第四季度的拖欠數字，最終好於我們的預期，儘管存在一些季節性，但我們已經再次開始增長，並且對我們可以開始調整增長感到放心在貸款方面，但我們將密切關注這一點。如果環境發生變化，我們會非常非常敏捷，也可以非常迅速地轉變。

Great. That's very clear. Very helpful. One follow-up, if I may. Thanks for the Slide 10 showing that profitability in Brazil. You're ROE showing annualized at 40%, but you still have a very under-levered balance sheet, and efficiency is improving pretty quickly.

偉大的。這很清楚。很有幫助。一個後續行動，如果可以的話。感謝幻燈片 10 顯示巴西的盈利能力。你的 ROE 年化率為 40%，但你的資產負債表槓桿率仍然很低，而且效率正在迅速提高。

But do you think there's still upside to that 40% ROE in Brazil as you expand the product base, the whole upsell and cross-sell to your clients? And do you think there's some upside to that number from here?

但是，隨著您擴大產品基礎、向客戶進行整體追加銷售和交叉銷售，您是否認為巴西 40% 的 ROE 仍有上升空間？你認為從這裡開始這個數字有什麼好處嗎？

Tito, we think that the profitability levels that we are showing now are a good testament of the long-term potential of the profitability that we can have as a digital bank. It provides clear evidence in our view about the cost moats and the revenue advantages that we have.

Tito，我們認為我們現在展示的盈利水平很好地證明了我們作為數字銀行可以擁有的長期盈利潛力。它在我們對成本護城河和我們擁有的收入優勢的看法中提供了明確的證據。

So in the long term, we do believe that there is more upside optionality there. In the short term, we don't provide guidance. So for 2023, we do expect to see some puts and takes in this equation. We do expect, on one hand, to see the caps on the interchange of prepaid cards coming into fruition on April 1. We do expect that, as we accelerate growth, this will now put additional weight on our margins. Conversely, as tailwinds, we expect that we will continue to grow and extract even more operating efficiency out of our system.

所以從長遠來看，我們確實相信那裡有更多的上行選擇。短期內，我們不提供指導。因此，到 2023 年，我們確實希望看到這個等式中的一些投入和投入。一方面，我們確實希望看到預付卡交換的上限在 4 月 1 日實現。我們確實希望，隨著我們加速增長，這將對我們的利潤率產生額外的影響。相反，作為順風，我們預計我們將繼續增長並從我們的系統中提取更多的運營效率。

So all in all, we think 2023 is another year of a healthy level of returns on equity. Respective seasonality across the quarters in the long term, we believe that there is more profitability for us to extract from the model that we have seen so far in Brazil.

因此，總而言之，我們認為 2023 年是股本回報率保持健康水平的又一年。從長期來看，各個季度各自的季節性，我們相信我們可以從迄今為止在巴西看到的模型中提取更多的盈利能力。

And we also hope that Brazil is also a good showcase to what we can develop in other geos. So as we can see in the S curve that David showed, Mexico and Colombia are a few years behind Brazil, but we have no doubt that they will achieve profitability levels at the same ZIP codes as the ones that we are achieving in Brazil in a few years.

我們也希望巴西也能很好地展示我們在其他地區的發展。因此，正如我們在 David 展示的 S 曲線中看到的那樣，墨西哥和哥倫比亞落後於巴西幾年，但我們毫不懷疑它們將在與我們在巴西實現的郵政編碼相同的郵政編碼下實現盈利水平幾年。

And just to add a bit on that, Lago, I think, ultimately, if you take a step back and go back to the kind of first principles of the business model that we've always been espousing is that the model of digital banking should provide much higher ROE than traditional banking because, ultimately, you are operating with costs that are over 85% lower than incumbents.

我想補充一點，Lago，最終，如果你退後一步，回到我們一直擁護的商業模式的首要原則，那就是數字銀行模式應該提供比傳統銀行業務高得多的 ROE，因為最終，您的運營成本比現有銀行低 85% 以上。

We don't have branches in every corner. We don't need hundreds of thousands of employees. We don't need a lot of very expensive headquarters. All of that, we don't need it to serve customers and even provide a better experience. So that has always been sort of the hypothesis. We've tried to prove it through unit economics when we look at -- show it -- when we show economics of the products that we have in lending, they're upwards of 60% in credit card, they're upwards of 100%.

我們沒有在每個角落都有分支機構。我們不需要數十萬員工。我們不需要很多非常昂貴的總部。所有這些，我們不需要它來為客戶服務，甚至提供更好的體驗。所以這一直是一種假設。我們試圖通過單位經濟學來證明這一點，當我們看到——展示它——當我們展示我們在貸款方面擁有的產品的經濟學時，它們在信用卡中超過 60%，它們超過 100 %。

But now we finally get to prove it to you with an actual geography like Brazil that is at a mature level and can start showing this level of ROE. And while there are some benefits of seasonality in Q4, as Lago mentioned, ultimately, that is the direction that I think the model will converge towards in Brazil and in other geographies as well.

但現在我們終於可以用像巴西這樣處於成熟水平並且可以開始顯示這種水平的 ROE 的實際地理位置向您證明這一點。正如 Lago 所提到的，儘管第四季度有一些季節性的好處，但我認為這最終是該模型將在巴西和其他地區收斂的方向。

And our next question comes from the line of Mario Pierry of BofA.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Mario Pierry。

Congratulations on the quarter. A quick question from me. When I look at your net interest margin evolution, you clearly benefited from lower funding costs. But we're looking here at the model, and we're also seeing higher lending spreads on your products, even though your mix is going against you given you're growing more in credit cards than personal loans.

祝賀這個季度。我的一個快速問題。當我查看您的淨息差變化時，您顯然受益於較低的融資成本。但我們正在研究這個模型，我們也看到你的產品的貸款利差更高，儘管你的組合對你不利，因為你的信用卡增長比個人貸款增長更多。

So my question is related to your ability to continue to reprice, not only given the competitive environment, but the health of your clients, right? Like we know the economy in Brazil. It's okay. It's not doing great. We know that consumers in Brazil are facing the effects of higher rates, high inflation, the disposable incomes.

所以我的問題與你繼續重新定價的能力有關，不僅考慮到競爭環境，還考慮到你客戶的健康，對吧？就像我們了解巴西的經濟一樣。沒關係。這不是很好。我們知道，巴西的消費者正面臨高利率、高通脹和可支配收入的影響。

So I just wanted to understand here like if you see much more room for repricing your product. And as a follow-up to that question, we have been hearing a lot of noise in Brazil of potential implementation of interest rate caps on credit card loans. If you could discuss that as well, that would be helpful.

所以我只是想在這裡了解一下，如果您看到更多的產品重新定價空間。作為該問題的後續行動，我們在巴西聽到了很多關於可能實施信用卡貸款利率上限的聲音。如果您也可以討論這一點，那將會很有幫助。

Mario, thank you so much for your question. Let me try to break them into first a little bit on net interest margin and then the second one on the cap.

馬里奧，非常感謝你的問題。讓我試著把它們分成第一部分關於淨息差，然後是第二部分關於上限。

On the net interest margin, as you have seen, and I'll draw your attention to Slide #22 of our presentation, we have seen a fairly material expansion over the past 4 quarters, and we expect that this expansion will continue as a result largely of 2 factors.

在淨息差方面，如您所見，我會提請您注意我們演示文稿的幻燈片 #22，我們在過去 4 個季度看到了相當大的擴張，我們預計這種擴張將因此繼續主要有2個因素。

Number one, we do expect that the credit portfolio will outpace the growth of deposits. And therefore, we should see the loan-to-deposit ratio going up, and that should be, by and large, a big tailwind to net interest margins.

第一，我們確實預計信貸組合的增長將超過存款的增長。因此，我們應該會看到貸存比上升，總的來說，這應該對淨息差有很大的推動作用。

Number two, we do expect that the continue of the lower cost of funding, that should increase the margins that we have. We are not relying, going straight to your question, on additional repricing of our products. But we believe that we will see kind of a shift in mix throughout 2023.

第二，我們確實希望資金成本繼續下降，這應該會增加我們的利潤率。直接回答您的問題，我們不依賴於對我們的產品進行額外的重新定價。但我們相信，到 2023 年，我們將看到某種形式的組合轉變。

I think personal loans -- unsecured personal loans on one hand may outpace the growth of credit cards. But conversely, we should also see throughout 2023 the beginning of the consignado or public payroll loans. So the combination of this change in mix should provide us also with an expansion of net interest margin by and large.

我認為個人貸款——一方面無擔保個人貸款的增長速度可能超過信用卡。但反過來，我們也應該在整個 2023 年看到代銷或公共工資貸款的開始。因此，這種組合變化的結合應該也會為我們提供淨息差的擴大。

So I think that is my attempt to address your first question. Basically, net interest margins is expected to continue at a healthy pace, not because we will reprice the products up, but because of the growth of the lending portfolio and the continuous lower of cost of funding. That is number one.

所以我認為這是我嘗試解決你的第一個問題。基本上，淨息差預計將繼續保持健康的步伐，這不是因為我們將產品重新定價，而是因為貸款組合的增長和融資成本的持續下降。那是第一。

Number two, on the cap on credit cards, we have been hearing and discussing with a few analysts and investors about this question, and this is a question that has been lingering in Brazil for over a decade now, right? So for over a decade, we have seen attempts to restructure and reshape the unit economics of credit cards. We have been investing a lot of time understanding this and actively participating in these discussions.

第二，關於信用卡上限，我們一直在聽取一些分析師和投資者討論這個問題，這個問題在巴西已經存在了十多年，對吧？因此，十多年來，我們看到了重組和重塑信用卡單位經濟的嘗試。我們投入了大量時間來了解這一點並積極參與這些討論。

We don't think that there's going to be any short-term change to the unit economics of credit cards. It is a very complex product that if you change one thing in interest rates, you should probably also change other things in interest-free installments. And therefore, it poses for a very complex outcome.

我們認為信用卡的單位經濟效益不會有任何短期變化。這是一個非常複雜的產品，如果你改變了利率，你可能還應該改變免息分期付款的其他事情。因此，它會帶來非常複雜的結果。

It is our view also that interest rate caps on credit cards will largely lead to lower levels of financial inclusion and lower levels of credit availability to the general public, which seems to be the opposite direction at what the Brazilian Central Bank and the current administration wants. So we don't see any of those risks in the short term, but we are watching this carefully and participating in the debate.

我們還認為，信用卡利率上限將在很大程度上導致普惠金融水平下降和公眾可獲得的信貸水平下降，這似乎與巴西中央銀行和現任政府希望的方向相反.所以我們在短期內看不到任何這些風險，但我們正在仔細觀察並參與辯論。

And our next question comes from the line of Gustavo Schroden from Bradesco.

我們的下一個問題來自 Bradesco 的 Gustavo Schroden。

Congrats on the bottom line, strong bottom line. My question is about -- is indeed about the bottom line and the -- or the net income. I understand that you do not provide an official guidance, and I could hear your answer on the Tito's question.

恭喜底線，強大的底線。我的問題是 - 確實是關於底線和 - 或淨收入。我知道你沒有提供官方指導，我可以聽到你對鐵托問題的回答。

But my point here is that if we annualize, for example, the fourth quarter results, we could have a sense or a feeling about what would be the net income in 2023, right? So what I'm trying to understand here is that do you think that it would be reasonable to use the fourth quarter results as approx for earnings quarter -- or earnings during the coming quarters in 2023 to have like as a starting point for us? Or do you see some change over the course that could change the dynamics that we saw in the fourth quarter?

但我的意思是，如果我們對第四季度的業績進行年度化，我們可能會對 2023 年的淨收入有一個感覺，對吧？所以我想在這裡了解的是，您認為將第四季度的結果用作收益季度的近似值——或 2023 年未來幾個季度的收益作為我們的起點是否合理？或者你是否看到了一些可能改變我們在第四季度看到的動態的變化？

Gustavo, thanks so much for your question. It is a challenging question to address as we don't provide guidance. But I think 2023 provides for a mix of puts and takes, as I mentioned to Tito.

古斯塔沃，非常感謝你的問題。這是一個具有挑戰性的問題，因為我們不提供指導。但我認為 2023 年會出現看跌和看跌的混合局面，正如我對 Tito 提到的那樣。

And on average, we expect that we will continue to post relatively healthy levels of returns on equity and bottom line profitability in Brazil. Although we do expect to continue to see seasonality playing its role throughout 2023, as we have seen in 2022.

平均而言，我們預計我們將繼續在巴西實現相對健康的股本回報率和底線盈利能力。儘管我們確實希望在整個 2023 年繼續看到季節性因素發揮作用，就像我們在 2022 年所看到的那樣。

If you take a look on Slide 11 of the presentation, you will see that our adjusted return on equity for the third quarter of 2022 was about 20%, that it went up to 40% in the fourth quarter. So we expect to continue to see those trends throughout 2023, but healthy levels of profitability, nevertheless.

如果您查看演示文稿的幻燈片 11，您會發現我們 2022 年第三季度的調整後股本回報率約為 20%，第四季度上升至 40%。因此，我們預計在整個 2023 年將繼續看到這些趨勢，但盈利水平仍處於健康水平。

Two things I would highlight, however. As you look at Mexico and Colombia, we continue to invest, and we will continue to invest in both of those countries, as we have invested in Brazil. It has taken Brazil almost now 9 years, 10 years to get to today's profitability levels. We think that Mexico and Colombia will still take a few years, but we will be able to shorten that cycle there over the coming decade.

但是，我要強調兩件事。看看墨西哥和哥倫比亞，我們繼續投資，我們將繼續投資這兩個國家，就像我們投資巴西一樣。巴西用了將近 9 年、10 年的時間才達到今天的盈利水平。我們認為墨西哥和哥倫比亞仍需要幾年時間，但我們將能夠在未來十年縮短那裡的周期。

However, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, Gustavo, we will not manage the company trying to optimize for next quarter or next 2 quarters ROE. We will optimize the results for the long term, yet the business model in Brazil shows very kind of vivid signs of profitability that we expect to continue to showcase to analysts and investors as we evolve.

然而，正如我在開場白中提到的那樣，Gustavo，我們不會管理試圖優化下個季度或下兩個季度 ROE 的公司。我們將長期優化結果，但巴西的商業模式顯示出非常生動的盈利跡象，我們希望隨著我們的發展繼續向分析師和投資者展示這些跡象。

Great, great, Lago. And just a follow-up here, specifically on the ROE that you mentioned and to see from the investments that you mentioned in Mexico and Colombia. We could see that your capital allocation in Brazil is about 1.7 billion out of 4.9 billion total or consolidated.

太好了，太好了，拉戈。這裡只是一個跟進，特別是關於你提到的 ROE 以及你提到的在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的投資。我們可以看到，您在巴西的資本配置約為 49 億或綜合資本中的 17 億。

My question here, what's your expectations of a capital allocation in other countries, such as Mexico and Colombia, I would say, in 1 or 2 years? Or maybe when do you think that Mexico and Colombia will be at the same maturity of Brazil?

我的問題是，您對其他國家（例如墨西哥和哥倫比亞）在 1 或 2 年內的資本配置有何期望？或者你認為墨西哥和哥倫比亞甚麼時候會和巴西一樣成熟？

I'm just trying to understand here the capital allocation because my understanding is important, especially when I analyze the ROE. So I'm just trying to get a sense here, your capital allocation and what would be the potential equity overall here -- or potential ROE on a consolidated basis.

我只是想在這裡了解資本配置，因為我的理解很重要，尤其是在分析 ROE 時。所以我只是想在這裡了解一下，你的資本分配以及這裡的整體潛在股權是多少——或者在合併的基礎上潛在的股本回報率是多少。

No, absolutely. Let me try to provide some guidance -- or not guidance, I'll provide some color on those questions. I would draw your attention to Page -- Slide 35 of our presentation. There you can see our capital position.

不，絕對。讓我試著提供一些指導——或者不提供指導，我會為這些問題提供一些顏色。請注意我們演示文稿的第 35 頁幻燈片。在那裡你可以看到我們的資本狀況。

First and foremost, we do believe that our business plan in Brazil, Mexico and Colombia is full funded. We have plenty of capital, plenty of liquidity to support the growth, organic, of Brazil, Mexico and Colombia over the coming years. We do appreciate, however, that Mexico and Colombia can be more friendly intensive than is in Brazil, especially because of the working capital cycle of credit card in those countries and also because of how much interest earning is used in credit cards.

首先，我們確實相信我們在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的商業計劃資金充足。我們有充足的資本和充足的流動性來支持未來幾年巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的有機增長。然而，我們確實讚賞墨西哥和哥倫比亞比巴西更加友好密集，特別是因為這些國家的信用卡營運資金周期以及信用卡中使用了多少利息收入。

So in Mexico and Colombia, the working capital cycle, I pay merchants in D+1, D+2, whereas I pay merchants in Brazil in D+27. And the percentage of the credit card books that is allocated to interest earning portfolio there is higher than it is in Brazil.

因此，在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的營運資金周期中，我在 D+1、D+2 向商家付款，而在巴西，我在 D+27 向商家付款。分配給利息收入組合的信用卡賬簿的百分比高於巴西。

For those 2 reasons, it is more funding intensive for us to operate in those 2 countries, and we will have to develop very soon our deposit base in Mexico and Colombia. And eventually, those will become countries in which they will also be more capital intensive with higher levels of return on assets there.

由於這兩個原因，我們在這兩個國家開展業務需要更多的資金，我們將不得不很快發展我們在墨西哥和哥倫比亞的存款基地。最終，這些國家將成為資本密集度更高、資產回報率更高的國家。

And our next question comes from the line of Marcelo Telles at Credit Suisse. Okay. So it seems that we are having problems with the line of Marcelo Telles, so let's move on to the next question.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Marcelo Telles。好的。所以我們似乎對 Marcelo Telles 的線路有問題，那麼讓我們繼續下一個問題。

And the next question comes from the line Pedro Leduc at Itau.

下一個問題來自 Itau 的 Pedro Leduc。

I wanted to get your thoughts a little bit on loan book growth and vis-a-vis provisions -- provision expenses, how you're seeing NPLs evolve. This quarter ticked up a bit. There's some seasonality here as well. Stage 3 formations have been high. Coverage, down.

我想了解一下您對貸款賬簿增長和準備金的看法——準備金支出，您如何看待不良貸款的演變。本季度略有上升。這裡也有一些季節性。第三階段的陣型很高。覆蓋範圍，下降。

So as I model 2023 here, I can definitely see the strength of NII offsetting a slower loan book growth, even though some growth, yes. But I struggle to see provision expenses coming down as a percentage of the loan book this year or near term. Does that make sense?

因此，當我在這裡模擬 2023 年時，我可以肯定地看到 NII 的實力抵消了貸款賬簿增長放緩的影響，即使有一些增長，是的。但我很難看到撥備費用在今年或短期內佔貸款賬簿的百分比下降。那有意義嗎？

Yes. Pedro, this is Youssef. Thank you for the question. So taking your question in parts, so with respect to provision expense, I would point you to the appendix of our earnings presentation, Page 48, I believe, that kind of breaks down the drivers of that. And as in past quarters, it's driven predominantly by growth. About 90% of it is driven by growth.

是的。佩德羅，這是優素福。感謝你的提問。因此，將你的問題分成幾個部分，關於撥備費用，我會向你指出我們收益報告的附錄，第 48 頁，我相信，這會分解它的驅動因素。與過去幾個季度一樣，它主要由增長驅動。其中約 90% 是由增長驅動的。

Now when you look at credit quality and NPLs beyond what I provided in the earlier remarks, I think it's important to kind of distinguish the dynamic of NPL 15 to 90, the early indicator, short-term delinquency is from 90 plus. So 15 to 90 decreased sequentially. That's very much in line with seasonal patterns. 90-plus increase -- because 90-plus has to behave as a stock metric, right? It accumulates for credit cards all the way up to a year after entering delinquency buckets. And so we've seen kind of the behavior on these 2 metrics pretty much following expectations.

現在，當你查看信用質量和不良貸款時，我認為區分不良貸款 15 到 90 的動態很重要，這是早期指標，短期拖欠率是 90 以上。所以15到90依次遞減。這非常符合季節性模式。 90 多歲的增加——因為 90 多歲必須作為一個股票指標，對吧？在進入拖欠桶後，它會一直累積信用卡長達一年。因此，我們已經看到這兩個指標的行為幾乎符合預期。

And so going forward, it's hard for me to give you very precise guidance given that the pattern of delinquencies will depend on several factors. Part of that is the quantity and mix of our own originations. Part of that is more macro drivers. But what I can tell you is from a seasonal perspective, we expect, as usual, Q1 to be a seasonal peak in delinquencies following the trough in Q4 and then Q2, Q3 tend to be more normal. So that's what I expect the seasonal pattern to look like.

所以展望未來，我很難給你非常準確的指導，因為拖欠的模式將取決於幾個因素。其中一部分是我們自己的起源的數量和組合。其中一部分是更多的宏觀驅動因素。但我可以告訴你的是，從季節性的角度來看，我們預計，與往常一樣，第一季度將是第四季度低谷之後拖欠率的季節性高峰，然後第二季度、第三季度趨於正常。這就是我期望的季節性模式。

Sorry. If I may follow up, the outlook for provision expenses, vis-a-vis loan book growth on a relative basis for 2023, expected to be coming down gradually as the year goes. How are you guys seeing that?

對不起。如果我可以跟進，準備金支出的前景，相對於 2023 年的貸款賬面增長，預計將隨著時間的推移逐漸下降。你們怎麼看？

Yes. Pedro, I expect the -- what we've seen in past quarters and in Q4 to continue, which is provision expense will primarily be driven by the growth in the book. The bulk of it as, you've seen on Page 48, is driving that growth.

是的。佩德羅，我預計 - 我們在過去幾個季度和第四季度看到的情況將繼續下去，即撥備費用將主要由賬面增長推動。正如您在第 48 頁上看到的那樣，其中大部分正在推動這種增長。

But again, it's the quantity of growth, but also the mix. So there's slightly different dynamics between credit cards, unsecured lending, and we want to introduce secured lending, and it will change the mix a little bit as well over time.

但同樣，這是增長的數量，也是混合。因此，信用卡、無擔保貸款之間的動態略有不同，我們想引入擔保貸款，隨著時間的推移，它也會稍微改變組合。

And our next question comes from the line of Thiago Batista at UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Thiago Batista。

Congratulations on the results. I have a question about the amazing 40% ROE that you provided in the presentation. If -- or do you know what would be the profitability if centra bank rules regarding capital were already implemented? So what would be the ROE with, let's say, the fully loaded of the capital requirement in Brazil? And as a follow-up, if the payroll loan business should be diluted or not for those ROE.

祝賀結果。我對您在演示文稿中提供的驚人的 40% 股本回報率有疑問。如果 - 或者你知道如果中央銀行關於資本的規定已經實施，盈利能力是多少？那麼，如果滿載巴西的資本要求，那麼 ROE 是多少？作為後續行動，工資貸款業務是否應該稀釋這些股本回報率。

Thiago, this is Lago. Thanks so much for your question. The ROE numbers should not change much in the new regulation because as of the end of 2022, we were already operating at an all-in base, already looking at the conglomerate between 9% and 10%. So it should be -- this should increase gradually from 2023 throughout 2025, but we are not operating with a much lower capital base than other financial institutions would have been had they opted for the prior regulation.

蒂亞戈，這是拉戈。非常感謝你的問題。新法規中的股本回報率數字應該不會有太大變化，因為截至 2022 年底，我們已經在一個全面的基礎上運營，已經在 9% 到 10% 之間尋找該集團。所以它應該是——這應該從 2023 年到 2025 年逐漸增加，但我們的運營資本基礎並不比其他金融機構選擇先前監管時低得多。

So we can certainly work with you after the call on trying to fine-tuning from 9.5% to 10.5%, but it should directionally not change much, the levels of returns that we are getting as of today, largely because we are massively overcapitalize in Brazil.

因此，我們當然可以在嘗試從 9.5% 微調到 10.5% 的電話會議後與您合作，但方向性變化應該不會太大，我們今天獲得的回報水平，主要是因為我們在巴西。

If you take a look at our financial statements in the very last page, you're going to see that the capital ratios of our financial institutions is above 20%. The financial -- the capital ratios of our payment institution is above 20% as well. So I think that's my attempt to address your first question.

如果你看一下我們最後一頁的財務報表，你會發現我們金融機構的資本比率在 20% 以上。金融——我們支付機構的資本比率也在20%以上。所以我認為這是我嘗試解決您的第一個問題。

On your second question, no, I don't think that the payroll loans should be dilutive to our overall ROE. We are assuming that we're going to have levels of return on equity and return on tangible equity that are in line or higher with the return on equity that we posted in the fourth quarter of 2022. But I'm not sure if I've been clear on those 2 things.

關於你的第二個問題，不，我認為工資貸款不應該稀釋我們的整體股本回報率。我們假設我們的股本回報率和有形股本回報率水平將與我們在 2022 年第四季度公佈的股本回報率持平或更高。但我不確定我是否這兩件事我已經很清楚了。

And our next question comes from the line of Neha Agarwala from HSBC.

我們的下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Neha Agarwala。

Congratulations on the results. I'd like to talk about asset quality a bit. Could you give us a sense of what would be the asset quality, the NPL ratio line today with the older methodology, if that's possible?

祝賀結果。我想談談資產質量。如果可能的話，你能告訴我們資產質量是什麼嗎？今天的不良貸款率線是用舊方法計算的嗎？

And we've seen the early delinquencies come down during this quarter, which is a good sign. Does this mean you're feeling a bit more comfortable regarding asset quality? Or are there pockets of vulnerability that you continue to remain cautious about? And how do you see that impacting originations in the coming quarter?

我們已經看到本季度的早期拖欠率有所下降，這是一個好兆頭。這是否意味著您對資產質量感到更放心了？還是您繼續對某些漏洞保持謹慎？您如何看待這對下一季度的影響？

In 2022, you're very clear that you would probably like to maintain originations at a level of 5 billion every quarter. Should we expect that to be accelerated in -- during 2023? And what do you see the risks regarding that acceleration?

到 2022 年，您非常清楚您可能希望將發起量保持在每季度 50 億的水平。我們是否應該期望在 2023 年期間加速？您認為這種加速會帶來哪些風險？

Yes. Neha, thanks for the questions. So let me address first your question on the impact of the write-off methodology change we did at the end of the second quarter of last year on NPLs. As we've reported in past quarters, you should think about the impact of 90-plus NPL as a reduction of 220 basis points in the quarter. So it's pretty consistent with past quarters on that.

是的。尼哈，謝謝你的提問。因此，讓我首先回答你關於我們在去年第二季度末對不良貸款所做的註銷方法變化的影響的問題。正如我們在過去幾個季度報告的那樣，您應該將 90 多個不良貸款的影響視為本季度減少 220 個基點。因此，這與過去幾個季度非常一致。

Now with respect to NPL trends, and as you correctly pointed out, there's been sequential improvement in 15 to 90. Some of that was seasonality. Some of that was the improvements we drove throughout the year in our underwriting stance, particularly with respect to personal loans. As we mentioned in past quarters, we took a bit more of a cautious stance given the uncertainty throughout the year, and we've seen very positive results from that, both in terms of the repricing we've done on the top line as well as NPLs.

現在關於不良貸款趨勢，正如您正確指出的那樣，在 15 到 90 之間出現了連續改善。其中一些是季節性的。其中一些是我們全年在承銷立場方面做出的改進，特別是在個人貸款方面。正如我們在過去幾個季度提到的那樣，鑑於全年的不確定性，我們採取了更加謹慎的立場，並且我們已經看到了非常積極的結果，無論是在我們對頂線所做的重新定價方面作為不良貸款。

And so all in all, we feel pretty good about what we're seeing from a risk-return standpoint, and that drove the sequential increase in originations, as Lago pointed out, of around 10% in personal loans itself. And so we're pretty encouraged by these trends. Again, it's hard for me to give you very precise guidance on a going forward basis, but we're -- so far, we're kind of comforted of what we're seeing on those.

因此，總而言之，從風險回報的角度來看，我們對所看到的情況感覺非常好，這推動了個人貸款本身的環比增長，正如拉戈指出的那樣，個人貸款本身增長了 10% 左右。因此，我們對這些趨勢感到非常鼓舞。同樣，我很難在前進的基礎上給你非常精確的指導，但我們 - 到目前為止，我們對我們在這些方面看到的情況感到欣慰。

Sorry. I did not get the 90-day NPL ratio under the old methodology. What would the number be approximately? Do we have that?

對不起。我沒有得到舊方法下的 90 天不良貸款率。這個數字大約是多少？我們有嗎？

Yes, yes. So just to refresh on how the new methodology works. So -- and it affects primarily personal loans, whereby the timing of write-off moves from 360 days to 120 days. This is per IFRS principles on expectation of recovery. So when you're moving the timing of write-offs, you're basically moving whatever was from 120 days to 360 days of delinquency to write off. So that tends to decrease 90-plus NPLs.

是的是的。因此，我只是想回顧一下新方法的工作原理。所以 - 它主要影響個人貸款，註銷時間從 360 天變為 120 天。這是根據 IFRS 關於預期恢復的原則。因此，當您移動註銷時間時，您基本上是將拖欠時間從 120 天移動到 360 天以進行註銷。因此，這往往會減少 90 多個不良貸款。

And as I indicated, that decrease is around 220 basis points of decrease between -- moving from the old to the new methodology, and that's been consistent across quarters since we made that change. I don't know if that was clear.

正如我所指出的，從舊方法到新方法，這種減少大約減少了 220 個基點，而且自我們做出這種改變以來，這在各個季度都是一致的。我不知道那是否清楚。

Okay, okay. Yes, I was -- I just wanted to confirm about the 220 basis points difference. That's perfectly okay. And regarding asset quality, if you could just elaborate, at this point, like, it seems like things are getting better. [Early increases] are coming down.

好吧好吧。是的，我是——我只是想確認 220 個基點的差異。那完全沒問題。關於資產質量，如果你能詳細說明一下，在這一點上，情況似乎正在好轉。 [早期增加]正在下降。

What worries you regarding asset quality? Is there any particular exposure that worries you? Or are you just cautious about the macro and trying to take it slow, keeping an eye on asset quality?

您擔心資產質量的哪些方面？有沒有什麼特別的曝光讓你擔心？還是您只是對宏觀持謹慎態度並試圖放慢腳步，關注資產質量？

Yes, yes. So on that, I mean, I think it's helpful to kind of take a step back and rewind the clock a little bit to where we've come from throughout the pandemic period. So what we saw is, starting in the second half of 2020, very low levels of delinquency, abnormally low because consumers were saving money. There were government interventions and so forth. So for a bunch of reasons, we were on abnormally low delinquency territory.

是的是的。因此，我的意思是，我認為退後一步並將時鐘倒回一點到我們在整個大流行期間所來自的地方是有幫助的。所以我們看到的是，從 2020 年下半年開始，拖欠率非常低，異常低，因為消費者在省錢。有政府乾預等等。因此，出於多種原因，我們處於異常低的拖欠率區域。

And it was very clear that the trend was going to be normalization and a move upwards of delinquencies. I personally think that cycle has largely played out, and we're now in a new part of the cycle. And so it's a little bit more of a higher uncertainty part of the cycle.

很明顯，趨勢將是正常化和拖欠率上升。我個人認為這個週期已經基本結束，我們現在正處於週期的新部分。因此，它是周期中不確定性更高的部分。

And for us, the stance is to be cautious. We're not worried about particular pockets, but we're always prepared to adjust our underwriting. Based on anything we see in our monitoring, we've actually built our underwriting system to be able to iterate very dynamically, very quickly adjust if we see things play out different from our expectations in either direction.

對我們來說，立場是謹慎的。我們不擔心特定的口袋，但我們總是準備調整我們的承保。根據我們在監控中看到的任何情況，我們實際上已經構建了我們的承銷系統，以便能夠非常動態地迭代，如果我們看到事情在任何一個方向上都與我們的預期不同，則可以非常快速地進行調整。

But I would say in the last 2 quarters, and particularly in Q4, we've seen relative signs of stability. And we've seen NPLs come in fairly close to our expectations.

但我要說的是，在過去兩個季度，尤其是在第四季度，我們已經看到了相對穩定的跡象。我們已經看到不良貸款非常接近我們的預期。

And our next question comes from the line of Jamie Friedman at SIG.

我們的下一個問題來自 SIG 的 Jamie Friedman。

Let me echo the congratulations. I just wanted to follow up on some of the previous questions, including those from Neha. So Lago, when you were walking through Slides 18 to 20, I thought that the suggestion, I don't want to exaggerate, was that there could be an acceleration in originations.

讓我回應祝賀。我只是想跟進之前的一些問題，包括來自 Neha 的問題。所以 Lago，當你瀏覽幻燈片 18 到 20 時，我認為這個建議，我不想誇大其詞，是可以加速起源。

I realize you don't give guidance, but if we could -- everybody seems to be asking about the same thing. So I guess, what is it maybe, Lago or Youssef, that would make you more confident in opening the credit box?

我知道你沒有提供指導，但如果我們可以的話——每個人似乎都在問同樣的事情。所以我想，Lago 或 Youssef 是什麼會讓您更有信心打開信用箱？

Because it seemed like in '22, just to kind of revisit what happened, the box was opened. Then it was closed, and it was reopened, then it was closed. So anyway, is this -- where are we in the Goldilocks? Is it -- and what would make you more confident lending again?

因為看起來像是在 22 年，只是為了重溫發生的事情，所以打開了盒子。然後它被關閉，它被重新打開，然後它被關閉。所以無論如何，這是——我們在 Goldilocks 的什麼地方？是嗎——什麼會讓你更有信心再次放貸？

Jamie, thank you so much for the question. Let me try to address, and then I'll also invite Youssef to complement. I think there are a few aspects that he addressed in his response to Neha that would help us here as well.

傑米，非常感謝你提出這個問題。讓我嘗試發言，然後我還會邀請 Youssef 進行補充。我認為他在對 Neha 的回應中提到的幾個方面也會對我們有所幫助。

But I think if you take a look at our presentation, Slide 18, you're going to see that the growth that we have had is of basically 2 tales, as I mentioned in my opening remarks. Number one is credit card. Credit card has grown over the past year at a clip of about almost 70% year-on-year. And we continue to see very strong support in its growth throughout the first quarter of 2023. We believe that we're going to have another strong year at 2023 as a whole.

但我認為，如果你看一下我們的演示文稿，幻燈片 18，你會發現我們的增長基本上是兩個故事，正如我在開場白中提到的那樣。第一是信用卡。信用卡在過去一年中以近 70% 的速度同比增長。在整個 2023 年第一季度，我們繼續看到其增長得到非常有力的支持。我們相信，我們將在 2023 年迎來又一個強勁的一年。

In personal loans, as you can go to Slide 20, and referring to some of the comments that Youssef made earlier in the call, we were, in fact, a little bit cautious throughout 2022. We waited for a few quarters for delinquency to stabilize. We have seen delinquency stabilizing in the third quarter, but primarily in the fourth quarter.

在個人貸款方面，您可以轉到幻燈片 20，並參考 Youssef 早些時候在電話會議中發表的一些評論，事實上，我們在整個 2022 年都有些謹慎。我們等待了幾個季度，拖欠率才趨於穩定.我們已經看到拖欠率在第三季度趨於穩定，但主要是在第四季度。

And if you take a look in the fourth quarter, we have already started to accelerate the originations of personal loans. It went from about BRL 4.6 billion to BRL 5 billion, so more or less 10% growth. All else constant, by which I mean if we continue to see no losses and delinquencies playing out as per our expectations, you should expect to see ourselves growing a bit more the originations of personal loans throughout 2023.

如果你看一下第四季度，我們已經開始加速個人貸款的發放。它從大約 46 億巴西雷亞爾增加到 50 億巴西雷亞爾，大約增長了 10%。其他一切不變，我的意思是，如果我們繼續按照我們的預期看到沒有損失和拖欠，你應該期望看到我們在整個 2023 年增加更多的個人貸款。

Now in 2023, you should also expect to see our launching secured personal loans, mostly public payroll loans, which should be an additional growth engine for our loan book throughout 2023 and 2024.

現在到 2023 年，您還應該期待看到我們推出有擔保的個人貸款，主要是公共工資貸款，這應該是我們整個 2023 年和 2024 年貸款賬簿的額外增長引擎。

But Youssef, I'm not sure if you have anything to add to Jamie's questions.

但是 Youssef，我不確定你是否有什麼可以補充 Jamie 的問題。

Yes. Jamie, just to add a couple of things to that in terms of how we think about the credit box and tightening or loosening. I mean, we operate always working backwards from booking every loan, every credit grants to be NPV positive throughout the life of the loan and to pass fairly strict, very conservative resilience requirements. So typically, we want every cohort of customers to be able to sustain a doubling of risk and still be above hurdle returns. And so that's what we work backwards from, and we've kind of observed in our monitoring the latest behavior of our latest cohorts and kind of adjust accordingly.

是的。傑米，就我們如何看待信貸箱以及收緊或放鬆而言，我想補充幾件事。我的意思是，我們的運作總是從預訂每筆貸款、每筆信貸贈款到整個貸款期限內的 NPV 為正，並通過相當嚴格、非常保守的彈性要求。因此，通常情況下，我們希望每一組客戶都能承受雙倍的風險，並且仍能獲得高於預期的回報。因此，這就是我們的倒退工作，我們在監控最新隊列的最新行為時觀察到了一些情況，並相應地進行了調整。

So it's unusual that we make the wholesale changes to our underwriting scorecard at any given point in time. It tends to be much more dynamic, much more gradual, much more tweaking around the edges, unless there are extraordinary events. So I think you're seeing a little bit of that in the fourth quarter with the increase in personal loan volume. And again, if performance continues to come in per our expectations, that trend should continue.

因此，我們在任何給定時間點對我們的承保記分卡進行大規模更改是不尋常的。除非有特殊事件發生，否則它往往會更加動態、更加漸進、更加微妙。所以我認為你會在第四季度看到一些個人貸款量的增加。同樣，如果業績繼續符合我們的預期，那麼這種趨勢應該會繼續下去。

The other thing to think about is beyond tightening, loosening of the credit box, what impacts our underwriting -- or our origination volumes is the quantity of customers we have been available to us to underwrite and, in particular, the quantity of customers for whom we have a lot of data.

另一件要考慮的事情是，除了收緊和放寬信用箱之外，影響我們承保的因素——或我們的發起量是我們可以承保的客戶數量，尤其是我們可以承保的客戶數量。我們有很多數據。

So if they're already PBA customers, primary banking account customers, that gives us a lot more confidence and a lot more certainty in terms of being able to underwrite them for credit card for higher limits or for personal loans.

因此，如果他們已經是 PBA 客戶，主要銀行賬戶客戶，這讓我們更有信心和確定性，能夠為他們承保更高限額的信用卡或個人貸款。

And our next question comes from the line of Eugene Simuni at MoffettNathanson.

我們的下一個問題來自 MoffettNathanson 的 Eugene Simuni。

I actually wanted to ask a question on your 2023 priorities. Specifically, it was very helpful to hear, I think, David, in the beginning of the call, you got called out a couple, I think, strategic areas that you're looking to focus on in 2023, including secured loans, affluent segment, obviously, Mexico and Colombia.

我實際上想問一個關於您 2023 年優先事項的問題。具體來說，我認為，大衛，在電話會議開始時聽到你被召集起來非常有幫助，我認為，你希望在 2023 年關注的幾個戰略領域，包括擔保貸款、富裕階層，顯然，墨西哥和哥倫比亞。

I wanted to ask from a product angle, so new product launches or maybe the products that are early in their development that you're focusing on for 2023. What's the top 2, 3 products there that we really should be watching this year?

我想從產品的角度問一下，新產品的發布，或者您在 2023 年關注的處於開發初期的產品。今年我們真正應該關注的前 2、3 種產品是什麼？

This is Jag Duggal. I'm the Chief Product Officer at Nubank, and let me take a swing at your question and complement what David said and reinforce some elements of it.

這是賈格·杜加爾。我是 Nubank 的首席產品官，讓我來回答你的問題並補充 David 所說的內容並強調其中的一些內容。

There are a series of launches that we are really happy with that either recently happened or are pending. First, I'll reinforce a couple that both David and Lago have mentioned. We are excited at Nubank year-by-year to go after the largest profit pools in the markets that we operate.

我們對最近發生或即將發生的一系列發布感到非常滿意。首先，我將強調 David 和 Lago 都提到的一對。我們很高興 Nubank 年復一年地追求我們經營的市場中最大的利潤池。

So we started with credit card and moved over the last couple of years into unsecured lending. And now we're excited to move into secured lending, which is the third largest profit pool in the country, starting with a big focus on loan secured via public payroll. We also have investment backed loans, which we've recently launched and looking to build out our secured loan portfolio. So just reinforcing that point.

因此，我們從信用卡開始，並在過去幾年內轉向無抵押貸款。現在我們很高興進入擔保貸款，這是該國第三大利潤池，首先重點關注通過公共工資擔保的貸款。我們還有投資支持貸款，我們最近推出了這些貸款，並希望建立我們的擔保貸款組合。所以只是強調這一點。

You also mentioned, and David mentioned, the focus on building up a deposit base in Mexico and, ultimately, in Colombia as well by opening up our bank account product, [Cuenta], in both of those countries this year. That will be important in its own right as part of broadening our product offering for our customers and also to help drive funding for credit as those markets evolve.

你還提到，大衛也提到，重點是在墨西哥建立存款基礎，並最終在哥倫比亞以及今年在這兩個國家開設我們的銀行賬戶產品 [Cuenta]。這本身就很重要，可以作為擴大我們為客戶提供的產品的一部分，也可以隨著這些市場的發展幫助推動信貸融資。

A few other products that I will mention. First one that we launched a little while ago, but is now getting to the point where we're starting to make it available to more customers is our credit card product for small businesses, our (inaudible) credit card product, which again allows us to, a, address the credit card market; but b, also broaden our offering for small businesses and build out the other side of our network.

我將提及的其他一些產品。我們不久前推出的第一個，但現在已經到了我們開始向更多客戶提供它的地步，是我們面向小型企業的信用卡產品，我們的（聽不清）信用卡產品，這再次允許我們解決信用卡市場問題；但是 b，也擴大了我們為小型企業提供的服務，並建立了我們網絡的另一端。

And the other product that I would mention to you is the product we just announced publicly, I think it was yesterday, which is auto insurance. And again, it's just an example of us rounding out our product portfolio, particularly for customers who are in the middle and upper parts of the income spectrum. So that stands out.

我要跟大家提的另一個產品是我們剛剛公開宣布的產品，我想是在昨天，那就是車險。再一次，這只是我們完善產品組合的一個例子，特別是對於收入範圍中上層的客戶。所以這很突出。

And we're also continuing to work on scaling up our Money Boxes, which we've talked a lot about, and our Ultravioleta off-market credit card, which is showing a lot of promise in the last several months. So those are a few of the things that I would highlight for you.

我們還在繼續努力擴大我們已經討論過很多的 Money Boxes 和我們的 Ultravioleta 場外信用卡，它在過去幾個月顯示出很大的希望。所以這些是我要為你強調的一些事情。

And our next question comes from the line of Alexander Markgraff at KeyBanc.

我們的下一個問題來自 KeyBanc 的 Alexander Markgraff。

Maybe first, just on the credit portfolio. I wanted to ask just, on Slide 19, the 12% receivables mix of installments. Obviously, kind of above market. Just curious as to where you're comfortable or kind of targeting that 12% to trend in the near term and long term.

也許首先，只是在信貸組合上。在幻燈片 19 上，我只想問 12% 的應收賬款分期付款組合。顯然，有點高於市場。只是想知道您在哪裡感到舒服或將這 12% 的目標定為短期和長期趨勢。

So on the growth in interest-earning receivables in credit cards, so this was the product of us basically launching a number of new features to -- for customers to be able to finance purchases, to finance payments, whether they be bar code payments and these things. This is just one of the latest features we've added, and we've seen a lot of success and strong adoption, really strong behavior from this feature.

因此，關於信用卡生息應收賬款的增長，這是我們基本上推出許多新功能的產物——讓客戶能夠為購買、支付提供資金，無論是條碼支付還是這些東西。這只是我們添加的最新功能之一，我們已經看到了很多成功和強大的採用，這個功能非常強大。

So it wasn't really that we were working backwards from a particular number, but really seeing strong customer adoption of these features and very strong economics from those.

因此，我們並不是真的從特定數字開始倒退，而是真正看到客戶對這些功能的廣泛採用以及從中獲得的非常強勁的經濟效益。

So going forward, we're continuing to test and introduce new features. So hard for me again to give you specific guidance on where that number is going to land, but we've been pretty happy with the customer adoption and the performance of those features we've introduced on credit card financing.

因此，展望未來，我們將繼續測試和引入新功能。我很難再次就該數字的去向向您提供具體指導，但我們對客戶的採用以及我們在信用卡融資方面引入的這些功能的性能感到非常滿意。

Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe just one more kind of macro related questions. Just some kind of help or commentary on how you're thinking about potential TPV tailwinds and headwinds for '23. I'm not looking for guidance, but just more generally speaking how should we think about some of the puts and takes for '23 on TPV.

好的。這很有幫助。然後可能只是另一種與宏觀相關的問題。只是關於您如何考慮 23 年潛在的 TPV 順風和逆風的某種幫助或評論。我不是在尋找指導，而是更一般地說，我們應該如何考慮 TPV 的 23 年的一些推桿和推桿。

So look, I think if you look historically on TPV over the next -- over the last 3 years, the market has grown at 30% to 35% per year. Part of that was basically a recovery of TPV pre COVID. I think now we are getting to a point in time in which market expects the aggregate TPV of the market to grow at anywhere close to low double-digit rates for 2023, 2024.

所以看，我認為如果你從歷史上看 TPV 在過去的 3 年裡，市場每年增長 30% 到 35%。其中一部分基本上是冠捷在 COVID 之前的恢復。我認為現在我們正處於一個時間點，市場預計 2023 年、2024 年市場的總 TPV 將以接近兩位數的低增長率增長。

That should be -- that should not be the growth rates that one should expect from our cards business. We should expect from our cards business to grow materially higher than that, as we expect to continue to gain market share in both credit cards as well as prepaid/debit cards.

那應該是 - 這不應該是我們的卡業務應該期望的增長率。我們應該期望我們的卡業務增長遠高於此，因為我們預計將繼續在信用卡和預付卡/借記卡領域獲得市場份額。

We have been gaining market share over the past 2 years at a pace of about 150 to 250 bps per year. We should expect to continue gaining market share strongly over 2023 and 2024.

在過去的兩年裡，我們一直在以每年約 150 至 250 個基點的速度獲得市場份額。我們應該期望在 2023 年和 2024 年繼續強勁地獲得市場份額。

Thank you, Lago. Thank you, everyone. And this concludes today's call. On behalf of Nu Holdings and of our Investor Relations team, I want to thank you very much for your time participation in our earnings call today.

謝謝你，拉戈。謝謝大家。今天的電話會議到此結束。我代表 Nu Holdings 和我們的投資者關係團隊，非常感謝您抽出時間參加我們今天的財報電話會議。

We are very excited to continue on growing and strengthening our position in Brazil, Mexico and Colombia. Over the coming days, we will be following up with the questions received via our platform. So please do not hesitate to reach out to our team if you want to make any further questions. Thank you, and have a good night.

我們很高興能繼續發展和加強我們在巴西、墨西哥和哥倫比亞的地位。在接下來的幾天裡，我們將跟進通過我們的平台收到的問題。因此，如果您想提出任何其他問題，請隨時與我們的團隊聯繫。謝謝你，祝你有個美好的夜晚。

The Nu Holdings conference call has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

Nu Holdings 電話會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連接。