科林研發 (LRCX) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to the Lam Research March 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this event is being recorded.

下午好，歡迎參加 Lam Research 2025 年 3 月收益電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Ram Ganesh, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給投資者關係副總裁 Ram Ganesh。請繼續。

Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Lam Research quarterly earnings conference call. With me today are Tim Archer, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Doug Bettinger, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝大家，下午好。歡迎參加 Lam Research 季度財報電話會議。今天與我一起的還有總裁兼執行長 Tim Archer；以及執行副總裁兼財務長 Doug Bettinger。

During today's call, we will share our overview on the business environment and we'll review our financial results for the March 2025 quarter and our outlook for the June 2025 quarter.

在今天的電話會議上，我們將分享我們對商業環境的概述，並回顧 2025 年 3 月季度的財務業績以及對 2025 年 6 月季度的展望。

The press release detailing our financial results was distributed a little after 1:00 PM Pacific time. The release can be found on the Investor Relations section of the company's website, along with the presentation slides that accompany today's call.

詳細介紹我們財務表現的新聞稿於太平洋時間下午 1 點後發布。新聞稿可在公司網站的投資者關係部分找到，同時還可以找到今天電話會議的簡報幻燈片。

Today's presentation and Q&A include forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties reflected in the risk factors disclosed in our SEC public filings. Please see accompanying slides in the presentation for additional information.

今天的演示和問答包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受我們向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 提交的公開文件中披露的風險因素所反映的風險和不確定性的影響。請參閱簡報中附帶的幻燈片以獲取更多資訊。

Today's discussion of our financial results will be presented on a non-GAAP financial basis unless otherwise specified. A detailed reconciliation between GAAP and non-GAAP res2ults can be found in the accompanying slides in the presentation.

除非另有說明，今天對我們財務結果的討論將以非 GAAP 財務基礎呈現。簡報中附帶的幻燈片可以詳細展示 GAAP 和非 GAAP 結果之間的對帳情況。

This call is scheduled to last until 3:00 PM Pacific time. A replay of this call will be made available later this afternoon on our website.

此次電話會議預計將持續至太平洋時間下午 3:00。通話的重播將於今天下午晚些時候在我們的網站上提供。

And with that, I'll hand the call over to Tim.

說完這些，我就把電話交給提姆。

Great. Thank you, Ram, and thank you all for joining the call today. Lam's March quarter results reflect continued strong execution across the company, with revenues, gross margin, operating margin and EPS all exceeding the midpoint of our guidance.

偉大的。謝謝你，拉姆，也謝謝大家今天參加電話會議。Lam 三月季度的業績反映了整個公司持續強勁的執行力，收入、毛利率、營業利潤率和每股收益均超過了我們預期的中位數。

We delivered a record quarter for foundry revenues, demonstrating our solid product momentum in leading-edge technology inflections. Gross margin percentage was also a record for the company since the Novellus merger, as the investments we've made over the past several years in our manufacturing and supply chain operations are contributing positively as we scale the business. As our guidance indicates, gross margins are set to expand again in the June quarter.

我們本季的代工營收創下了歷史新高，展現了我們在尖端科技領域的強勁產品動能。毛利率也創下了公司自與 Novellus 合併以來的最高紀錄，因為我們過去幾年在製造和供應鏈運營方面所做的投資在我們擴大業務規模的過程中發揮了積極作用。正如我們的指引所示，毛利率將在 6 月季度再次擴大。

On our January earnings call, we laid out what we saw as the fundamental drivers of WFE spending in the year ahead. To date, these have played out largely as expected, with strength in leading-edge foundry logic, technology-driven conversions in NAND, and a focus on high-bandwidth memory and DDR5 and DRAM.

在一月份的收益電話會議上，我們闡述了我們認為未來一年 WFE 支出的基本驅動因素。到目前為止，這些進展基本上符合預期，包括領先的代工邏輯實力、NAND 的技術驅動轉換以及對高頻寬記憶體、DDR5 和 DRAM 的關注。

From an overall industry perspective, we continue to forecast calendar year 2025 WFE spending in the $100 billion range. We recognize that the current tariff and global economic environment is dynamic, but thus far, we have not seen any meaningful changes to our customers' plans. We are closely monitoring the situation alongside our customers and ecosystem partners.

從整個產業的角度來看，我們繼續預測 2025 年 WFE 支出將在 1,000 億美元左右。我們認識到當前的關稅和全球經濟環境是動態的，但到目前為止，我們還沒有看到客戶計劃發生任何有意義的變化。我們正與客戶和生態系統合作夥伴密切關注情況。

We believe that the agile manufacturing and supply chain capability that we have developed in recent years provides us with the flexibility to lessen the direct impact of tariffs. Our strategic focus in this environment remains on delivering the new products, advanced services, and digital transfer nation initiatives required to achieve the growth and profitability outperformance goals we described at our Investor Day in February.

我們相信，近年來我們開發的敏捷製造和供應鏈能力為我們提供了靈活性，以減輕關稅的直接影響。在這種環境下，我們的策略重點仍然是提供新產品、先進服務和數位轉移國家計劃，以實現我們在二月份投資者日上所描述的成長和獲利超越目標。

As a reminder, we identified three key drivers that underpin our ability to outperform overall WFE growth over the next several years. First, we expect to expand our served market or SAM faster than WFE as deposition and etch intensity rises due to greater semiconductor device complexity.

提醒一下，我們確定了三個關鍵驅動因素，這些因素將支撐我們在未來幾年超越整體 WFE 成長的能力。首先，隨著半導體裝置複雜性的提高導致沉積和蝕刻強度的提高，我們預計我們服務的市場或 SAM 將比 WFE 更快地擴大。

Second, we expect to gain share with the strongest product portfolio in the company's history, targeted at $1-plus billion technology inflections, such as gate all around, backside power distribution, advanced packaging, and dry EUV photoresist processing.

其次，我們期望憑藉公司歷史上最強大的產品組合來獲得市場份額，目標是價值超過 10 億美元的技術轉變，例如環繞柵極、背面配電、先進封裝和乾式 EUV 光阻處理。

And third, we expect to grow our CSBG revenue faster than our installed base as customers look to Lam's upgrade, automation, and equipment intelligence offerings to enhance productivity and execution as they expand their global fab operations. Year to date, we are already witnessing incredible momentum in these areas.

第三，隨著客戶在擴大其全球晶圓廠業務時尋求 Lam 的升級、自動化和設備智慧產品來提高生產力和執行力，我們預計 CSBG 收入的成長速度將快於我們的安裝基數。今年迄今為止，我們已經見證了這些領域令人難以置信的發展勢頭。

In deposition, Lam's atomic layer deposition, or ALD products, are making strong gains. Our Striker SPARC ALD tool deliver industry's densest conformal low-k carbide dielectric films level. Leveraging this capability, we have secured multiple key wins for spacer applications at a leading-edge foundry.

在沉積領域，Lam 的原子層沉積（ALD）產品正在取得強勁成長。我們的 Striker SPARC ALD 工具可提供業界最緻密的共形低 k 碳化物電介質薄膜水平。利用這項能力，我們在一家領先的代工廠獲得了多個關鍵的間隔物應用勝利。

Our ALTUS Halo System enables barrierless atomic layer deposition of molybdenum, reducing the resistance of critical contact and interconnect layers by 50% compared to legacy technologies. In the case of 3D NAND, this reduction is critical to achieving the superior I/O performance needed for AI applications. As a result, Lam's Halo molybdenum process is seeing increased adoption across our leading 3D NAND customers.

我們的 ALTUS Halo 系統可實現鉬的無障礙原子層沉積，與傳統技術相比，可將關鍵接觸層和互連層的電阻降低 50%。對於 3D NAND 而言，這種減少對於實現 AI 應用所需的卓越 I/O 效能至關重要。因此，Lam 的 Halo 鉬製程在我們領先的 3D NAND 客戶中的採用率正在不斷提高。

In etch, our new Akara system has gotten off to a great start, rapidly solidifying and expanding our market-leading position in conductor etch. Featuring a proprietary industry-first innovation for ultrafast plasma control, Akara delivers previously unachievable levels of performance in etch selectivity and profile patterning precision. We have previously announced leading-edge foundry logic momentum with this tool, and just since our Investor Day, Akara has also won multiple critical etch applications at a major DRAM manufacturer.

在蝕刻方面，我們的新 Akara 系統取得了良好的開端，迅速鞏固並擴大了我們在導體蝕刻領域的市場領先地位。Akara 採用業界首創的超快等離子控制專有創新技術，在蝕刻選擇性和輪廓圖案精度方面達到了前所未有的性能水準。我們之前已經利用該工具宣布了領先的代工邏輯勢頭，並且就在投資者日之後，Akara 還贏得了一家主要 DRAM 製造商的多個關鍵蝕刻應用。

By enabling current DRAM and logic roadmaps with Akara, we are setting the stage for Lam to make further gains as the industry looks to implement even more challenging device architectures like 3D DRAM and CFET over the next decade.

透過與 Akara 合作實現目前的 DRAM 和邏輯路線圖，我們為 Lam 取得進一步發展奠定了基礎，因為業界希望在未來十年內實施更具挑戰性的裝置架構，例如 3D DRAM 和 CFET。

Turning to CSBG. We saw record revenues in our upgrades business. While the growth in upgrades was primarily driven by NAND technology conversions as forecasted at our Investor Day, key DRAM and foundry logic customers are also more actively upgrading and repurposing existing tools for new applications to optimize capital spending.

轉向 CSBG。我們的升級業務收入創下了紀錄。雖然升級的成長主要是由我們在投資者日預測的 NAND 技術轉換所推動的，但主要的 DRAM 和代工邏輯客戶也在更積極地升級和重新利用現有工具以用於新應用，從而優化資本支出。

Looking forward, we see the upgradable architecture of our systems being a growing point of differentiation for Lam. We are enabling our customers to cost effectively scale technology on the equipment they already own while creating revenue and share gain opportunities for us.

展望未來，我們認為我們系統的可升級架構將成為 Lam 的日益突出的差異化優勢。我們幫助客戶以經濟的方式擴展他們已有設備上的技術，同時為我們創造收入和市場份額成長的機會。

Our collaboration with customers on operating cost optimization extends across the entirety of our installed base business and over a longer time horizon. For example, in the March quarter, we signed a new multi-year Spares agreement with a large memory customer for the latest technology node. This enables us to deliver value to the customer through assured component quality, cost, and availability.

我們與客戶在營運成本優化方面的合作涵蓋了我們整個已安裝基礎業務，並且持續時間更長。例如，在三月季度，我們與一家大型記憶體客戶針對最新技術節點簽署了一份新的多年期備件協議。這使我們能夠透過保證組件品質、成本和可用性為客戶提供價值。

Finally, in specialty technologies, we achieved a couple of key milestones recently. First, we displaced a competitor and shipped multiple 200-millimeter PECVD tools for silicon carbide-based wide bandgap power device fabrication. Second, our pulse laser deposition solutions are being extended into more use cases, and we will be shipping our latest tool this year for an advanced memory application.

最後，在專業技術領域，我們最近取得了幾個重要的里程碑。首先，我們取代了競爭對手，並交付了多台用於基於碳化矽的寬頻隙功率裝置製造的 200 毫米 PECVD 工具。其次，我們的脈衝雷射沉積解決方案正在擴展到更多的用例，今年我們將推出用於進階記憶體應用的最新工具。

As companies look to accelerate R&D and scale manufacturing globally, we're finding new ways to add value. We have talked in the past about our Semiverse Solutions capabilities which apply advanced modeling simulation, data science, machine learning, and artificial intelligence to enhance equipment performance and shorten the time required for process optimization.

隨著企業尋求加速研發和擴大全球製造規模，我們正在尋找新的方法來增加價值。我們過去曾談到我們的 Semiverse Solutions 功能，它應用先進的建模模擬、數據科學、機器學習和人工智慧來提高設備性能並縮短流程優化所需的時間。

I am pleased to report that recently, we signed new licensing agreements with three large customers for our virtual fabrication platform, SEMulator3D. For both cost and performance benefits, we see virtual fabrication fast becoming a required discipline in advanced technology development, and Lam is leading the industry in this evolution.

我很高興地報告，最近我們與三位大客戶就我們的虛擬製造平台 SEMulator3D 簽署了新的授權協議。就成本和性能優勢而言，我們認為虛擬製造正迅速成為先進技術開發的必修學科，而 Lam 正引領產業在這一發展過程中前進。

So to wrap up, when I look at our solid March quarter results and strong June quarter guide, I see Lam executing at a high level on all aspects of the outperformance strategy we described at our February Investor Day. This includes new product momentum and key customer wins, value creation from the installed base business, and innovation in equipment intelligence and virtual process development.

總而言之，當我看到我們穩健的 3 月季度業績和強勁的 6 月季度指引時，我看到 Lam 在我們 2 月投資者日描述的卓越戰略的各個方面都表現優異。這包括新產品的發展動能和關鍵客戶的贏得、已安裝基礎業務的價值創造以及設備智慧和虛擬流程開發的創新。

Near term, we're taking steps to lessen the direct impact of tariffs and closely monitoring for longer-term indicators of demand changes. Our priority is to continue delivering the technological innovations and world-class support that uniquely enable our customers to scale semiconductor manufacturing faster, more productively, and more cost effectively. Simply put, our competitive differentiation is enabling our customers' competitive advantage. For this reason, we remain highly confident that Lam is in an excellent position to outperform overall semiconductor industry growth in the years to come.

短期內，我們正在採取措施減輕關稅的直接影響，並密切監控需求變化的長期指標。我們的首要任務是繼續提供技術創新和世界一流的支持，使我們的客戶能夠更快、更有效率、更經濟地擴大半導體製造規模。簡而言之，我們的競爭差異化使我們的客戶獲得了競爭優勢。因此，我們仍然非常有信心，Lam 將在未來幾年佔據領先地位，超越整個半導體產業的成長。

Thank you, and I'll now pass it on to Doug.

謝謝，我現在將其轉達給 Doug。

Great. Thank you, Tim. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our call today. Lam is off to a strong start in 2025. The March quarter's performance exceeded the midpoint of all of our guidance ranges that we gave on the last earnings call.

偉大的。謝謝你，提姆。大家下午好，感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。林鄭月娥在 2025 年迎來了一個好的開始。三月季度的業績超過了我們在上次收益電話會議上給出的所有指導範圍的中點。

I was pleased with the company's continued solid execution. We've reached the highest quarterly gross margin percentage since Lam merged with Novellus in 2012. We achieved this by proactively delivering on our operational efficiencies via our manufacturing strategy of being close to our customers.

我對公司持續穩健的執行力感到滿意。我們已達到自 2012 年 Lam 與 Novellus 合併以來的最高季度毛利率。我們透過貼近客戶的製造策略積極提高營運效率，從而實現了這一目標。

Let's look at the details of our March quarter financial results. Revenue for the March quarter was $4.72 billion, which was an increase of 8% from the prior quarter. Our deferred revenue balance at quarter end was $2 billion, which was essentially flat from the December quarter. Within this number though, advanced payments trended lower while other components of the deferred balance trended higher. As we sit here today, I believe our deferred revenue balance will move lower by the end of 2025.

讓我們看看我們三月份季度財務業績的詳細資訊。3 月當季營收為 47.2 億美元，較上一季成長 8%。我們季度末的遞延收入餘額為 20 億美元，與 12 月季度基本持平。但在這個數字中，預付款呈現下降趨勢，而遞延餘額的其他部分則呈現上升趨勢。今天我們坐在這裡，我相信到 2025 年底我們的遞延收入餘額將會下降。

From a market segment perspective, March quarter systems revenue memory was 43%, a decrease from 50% in the prior quarter. Within memory, non-volatile memory accounted for 20% of our systems revenue, down from 24% in the prior quarter. And just a reminder, this segment includes a domestic China customer that we classified as a non-volatile memory producer and that we are currently limited from shipping to.

從細分市場來看，3月季度系統記憶體收入佔比為43%，較上一季的50%有所下降。在記憶體方面，非揮發性記憶體占我們系統收入的 20%，低於上一季的 24%。需要提醒的是，該部門包括一家中國國內客戶，我們將其歸類為非揮發性記憶體生產商，目前我們對其發貨有所限制。

On a dollar basis, Lam saw growth from non-China-based customers, consistent with our expectations from earlier in the year. The non-volatile memory segment is being driven by customer spending on technology conversions from 1XX layer to 256 layer class devices. We currently expect this segment represent the biggest percentage growth in systems revenue for Lam in the June quarter.

以美元計算，Lam 看到來自中國以外的客戶實現了成長，這與我們今年稍早的預期一致。非揮發性記憶體領域是由客戶在從 1XX 層到 256 層級設備的技術轉換上的支出所推動。我們目前預計該部門將代表 Lam 在六月季度的系統收入實現最大的百分比成長。

DRAM represented 23% of systems revenue compared with 26% in the December quarter. DRAM spending was focused on technology upgrades, one alpha , one beta, and one gamma nodes to enable DDR5 LPDDR5 and high-bandwidth memory.

DRAM 佔系統收入的 23%，而 12 月季度這一比例為 26%。DRAM 支出主要集中在技術升級、一個 alpha、一個 beta 和一個 gamma 節點，以支援 DDR5 LPDDR5 和高頻寬記憶體。

Foundry represented 48% of our systems revenue up from the percentage concentration in the December quarter up 35%. This level represents a new record in dollar terms for Lam. Shipments for gate all around nodes and advanced packaging were strong. We also benefited from mature node spending with domestic Chinese customers.

代工業務占我們系統收入的 48%，高於 12 月季度的百分比濃度 35%。這一水平對於 Lam 來說創下了美元新高。柵極全向節點和先進封裝的出貨量強勁。我們也受惠於中國國內客戶的成熟節點支出。

I'd just like to point out that the last time we're at these revenue levels back in late 2022, foundry represented a concentration in the low- to mid-30% range. We have clearly broadened and diversified our business since then.

我只想指出，上一次我們達到這樣的收入水準是在 2022 年底，當時代工的集中度在 30% 到 30% 之間。自那時起，我們的業務明顯拓寬並多樣化。

And finally, logic and other were 9% of our systems revenue in the March quarter, down from the prior quarter's level of 15%. The decrease was primarily driven by reduced leading-edge spending.

最後，邏輯和其他業務占我們 3 月季度系統收入的 9%，低於上一季的 15%。下降的主要原因是前沿技術支出的減少。

Now I'll discuss the regional composition of our total revenue. The China region accounted for 31%, flat from the prior quarter. Most of our revenue from China continue to come from domestic Chinese customers. Our next largest geographic concentrations were Taiwan and Korea at 24% of revenue each in the March quarter. Taiwan represented a new record level for us in dollar terms.

現在我將討論我們總收入的地區組成。中國地區佔31%，與上一季持平。我們在中國的大部分收入仍來自中國國內客戶。我們第二大地理集中地是台灣和韓國，三月季度的營收各佔 24%。以美元計算，台灣對我們來說創下了新高。

The Customer Support Business Group generated approximately $1.7 billion in revenue for the March quarter, down a little bit from the December quarter, however, 21% higher than the same period in 2024. Sequentially, the decline was attributable to lower Reliant systems revenue, partly offset by record upgrade revenue.

客戶支援業務集團 3 月季度的營收約為 17 億美元，較 12 月季度略有下降，但比 2024 年同期高出 21%。環比下降的原因是 Reliant 系統收入下降，但創紀錄的升級收入部分抵消了下降。

Turning to the gross margin performance. The March quarter came in at 49%, at the high end of our guidance range and improving from the December quarter level of 47.5%. The increase reflects a stronger mix as well as the efficiencies we're delivering from our close-to-customer manufacturing strategy.

談到毛利率表現。3 月季度的銷售額達到 49%，處於我們預期範圍的高位，並且比 12 月季度的 47.5% 有所提高。這一成長反映了更強大的產品組合以及我們貼近客戶的製造策略所帶來的效率。

Operating expenses in March were $763 million, up from the prior-quarter level of $735 million. The increase was due to growth in R&D activities associated with our ongoing roadmap differentiation. R&D accounted for 70% of the total operating expenses.

3 月營運費用為 7.63 億美元，高於上一季的 7.35 億美元。這一增長是由於與我們正在進行的路線圖差異化相關的研發活動的增長。研發費用佔總營業費用的70%。

Operating margin in the March quarter was 32.8% above the December quarter level of 30.7% and near the high end of our guidance range, primarily because of the higher revenue and the stronger gross margin performance. Our non-GAAP tax rate for the quarter was 13.3%, in line with our expectations. Our estimate for the June 2025 quarter is for the tax rate to be in the single-digit range due to an anticipated tax reserve release tied to a statute of limitations expiration.

3 月季度的營業利潤率比 12 月季度的 30.7% 高出 32.8%，接近我們預期範圍的高端，這主要是因為收入增加且毛利率表現強勁。本季我們的非公認會計準則稅率為 13.3%，符合我們的預期。我們估計，由於預期稅收儲備金的釋放與訴訟時效到期有關，2025 年 6 月季度的稅率將處於個位數範圍內。

Beyond the June quarter, we continue to believe the tax rate will be in the low- to mid-teens for the remainder of the calendar year. Other income expense for the March quarter came in at $7 million in expense compared with $11 million in income in the December quarter. The change in OI&E was due to lower gains on our equity investments and lower interest income. OI&E will continue to be susceptible to market-related fluctuations that will cause some level of volatility each quarter. I do believe OI&E will have a slight negative bias in the June quarter.

我們仍然認為，六月季度之後，今年剩餘時間的稅率將保持在十幾個百分點以下。3 月季度的其他收入支出為 700 萬美元，而 12 月季度的收入為 1,100 萬美元。OI&E 的變化是由於我們的股權投資收益減少以及利息收入減少。OI&E 將繼續受到市場相關波動的影響，這將導致每季出現一定程度的波動。我確實相信 OI&E 在 6 月季度會出現輕微的負面偏差。

On the capital return side of things, we allocated approximately $347 million to open market share repurchases, and we paid $296 million in dividends in the March quarter. As I indicated on the last earnings call, in the quarter, we retired $500 million of unsecured notes that reached maturity using cash from our balance sheet.

在資本回報方面，我們分配了約 3.47 億美元用於公開市場股票回購，並在 3 月季度支付了 2.96 億美元的股息。正如我在上次收益電話會議上所指出的，在本季度，我們使用資產負債表中的現金償還了到期的 5 億美元無擔保票據。

We returned 63% of free cash flow in the quarter. This was a little lower than normal due to that cash that we allocated for the debt retirement. For the March quarter, diluted earnings per share came in at $1.04. The diluted share count was roughly 1.29 billion shares, about flat with the December quarter. We have $8.8 billion remaining on our Board-authorized share repurchase program.

我們在本季返還了 63% 的自由現金流。由於我們分配了現金用於償還債務，因此這個數字比正常水平略低。3 月當季每股攤薄收益為 1.04 美元。稀釋後股數約 12.9 億股，與 12 月季度基本持平。我們董事會授權的股票回購計畫還剩餘 88 億美元。

Let me pivot to the balance sheet. Our cash and short-term investments totaled $5.5 billion at the end of the March quarter, down slightly from $5.7 billion at the end of the December quarter. The primary factors behind the cash decrease were the repayment of those notes, our capital spending, as well as our capital return activities. Total debt on the balance sheet obviously declined by that $500 million to $4.5 billion at quarter end.

讓我轉到資產負債表。截至 3 月季末，我們的現金和短期投資總額為 55 億美元，略低於 12 月季末的 57 億美元。現金減少的主要因素是償還這些票據、我們的資本支出以及我們的資本回報活動。資產負債表上的總債務在季度末明顯減少了 5 億美元，降至 45 億美元。

Days sales outstanding were 62 days in the March quarter, which was a decrease from 69 days in the December quarter. Inventory at March quarter end totaled $4.5 billion, a slight increase from the December quarter as we prepare for higher revenue levels in the June quarter. Inventory turns were 2.2 times compared with 2.1 times in the previous quarter. We will continue to manage inventory levels to align with customer demand.

3 月季度的應收帳款週轉天數為 62 天，較 12 月季度的 69 天有所減少。3 月季度末的庫存總額為 45 億美元，較 12 月季度略有增加，因為我們為 6 月季度更高的收入水準做準備。庫存週轉率為2.2次，而上一季為2.1次。我們將繼續管理庫存水準以滿足客戶需求。

Our non-cash expenses for the March quarter included nearly $87 million in equity compensation, $83 million in depreciation, and $14 million in amortization.

我們三月季度的非現金支出包括近 8,700 萬美元的股權補償、8,300 萬美元的折舊和 1,400 萬美元的攤提。

Capital expenditures in the March quarter were $288 million, up $100 million from the December quarter. A major driver of this increase was a purchase of land in India to enable our planned lab expansions there. Our capital spending otherwise was focused on lab investments in the United States and global growth in manufacturing.

3 月季度的資本支出為 2.88 億美元，比 12 月季度增加了 1 億美元。這一增長的主要驅動力是在印度購買土地以實現我們計劃中的實驗室擴建。我們的資本支出主要集中在美國的實驗室投資和全球製造業的成長。

We ended the March quarter with approximately 18,600 regular full-time employees, which was an increase of approximately 300 people from the prior quarter. We had headcount growth primarily in the factory and field organizations to support increased tool installation as well as growing manufacturing activities. We also saw headcount increases within R&D to support that long-term product roadmap.

截至三月季度，我們擁有約 18,600 名正式全職員工，比上一季增加了約 300 人。我們的員工數量成長主要集中在工廠和現場組織，以支援增加的工具安裝以及不斷增長的製造活動。我們也看到研發部門的員工數量增加，以支援長期產品路線圖。

Now let's turn to our non-GAAP guidance for the June 2025 quarter. We're expecting revenue of $5 billion, plus or minus $300 million. We expect systems revenue in foundry and NAND to be up in the June quarter. This business level is consistent with our expectations from the beginning of the year. I want to specifically point out that we don't see anything being pulled in from future quarters.

現在讓我們來看看 2025 年 6 月季度的非 GAAP 指引。我們預計營收為 50 億美元，上下浮動 3 億美元。我們預計代工和 NAND 的系統收入將在 6 月季度上升。這一業務水準與我們年初的預期一致。我想特別指出的是，我們看不到未來幾季會出現什麼進展。

We're expecting gross margin of 49.5%, plus or minus 1 percentage point. This guidance includes our current assessment of the direct impacts of tariffs on our business. Operating margin of 33.5%, plus or minus 1 percentage point; and finally, earnings per share of $1.20, plus or minus $0.10 based on a share count of approximately 1.28 billion shares.

我們預期毛利率為 49.5%，上下浮動 1 個百分點。該指南包括我們對關稅對我們業務的直接影響的當前評估。營業利益率為33.5%，上下浮動1個百分點；最後，每股收益為 1.20 美元，基於約 12.8 億股的股票數量，上下浮動 0.10 美元。

This guidance for gross margin and operating margin percentage would represent record levels since our joining of Lam and Novellus. I would also just point that this would be the highest operating margin percentage that Lam has delivered since the late 1990s. These earnings will obviously represent an all-time record level of profitability.

這一毛利率和營業利潤率預期將達到我們加入 Lam 和 Novellus 以來的最高水準。我還要指出的是，這將是 Lam 自 1990 年代末以來實現的最高營業利潤率。這些收益顯然將代表歷史最高水準的獲利水準。

To wrap up, we're off to a strong start in 2025. We're executing well on our critical operational and financial objectives. While the tariff-related to macro uncertainty is keeping the dynamic, customers are continuing to invest consistently with their planned technology roadmaps.

總而言之，我們在 2025 年取得了良好的開端。我們正在順利實現關鍵的營運和財務目標。儘管與宏觀不確定性相關的關稅仍保持動態，但客戶仍在繼續按照其計劃的技術路線進行投資。

At Lam, we're laser focused on driving innovation and delivering new product and service capabilities, while at the same time, enhancing operational efficiency and managing our profitability goals. We believe we're well set up to outperform overall WFE in 2025 as well as in the years ahead.

在 Lam，我們專注於推動創新和提供新產品和服務能力，同時提高營運效率並管理我們的獲利目標。我們相信，我們已經做好了充分準備，能夠在 2025 年以及未來幾年超越整體 WFE。

Operator, that concludes our prepared remarks. Tim and I would now like to open up the call for questions.

接線員，我們的準備好的發言到此結束。提姆和我現在想開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) C.J. Muse, Cantor Fitzgerald.

（操作員指示）C.J. Muse，Cantor Fitzgerald。

I guess first question, I was hoping to hit on the NAND upgrade cycle that you're seeing. You talked about that being the biggest growth driver into the June quarter. Would love to hear your thoughts around the sustainability of that beyond June.

我想第一個問題是，我希望了解您所看到的 NAND 升級週期。您說過這是六月季度最大的成長動力。很想聽聽您對六月之後可持續性的看法。

Are you anticipating a broadening of spending beyond just the one or two customers in the first that you're seeing in the first half of the year? And as you think about the growth there, I guess, how much of that will come through tools versus CSBG upgrades? As well as is there a way to think about your share of wallet with the industry focusing so greatly on upgrades where would appear that you're going from 30% to maybe 40% to 50%?

您是否預計今年上半年的支出範圍會擴大，而不僅僅是第一季的一兩個客戶？當您考慮那裡的成長時，我想，其中有多少是透過工具而不是 CSBG 升級實現的？以及，有沒有辦法考慮一下您的錢包份額，因為整個行業都如此註重升級，看起來您的份額會從 30% 上升到 40% 甚至 50%？

Yeah, C.J., this is Tim. I'll go ahead and start on this. As we talked a couple of times on earnings calls recently, a significant portion, we said two-thirds of the industry's bits are still at around the 128 level. That's the 1XX generation. So we see a tremendous number of bits that ultimately have to get upgraded to 2XX-plus. And so we don't know exactly what the rate and pace of this.

是的，C.J.，這是提姆。我將繼續並開始做這件事。正如我們最近在收益電話會議上幾次談到的那樣，我們表示，很大一部分行業三分之二的位數仍然停留在 128 左右的水平。這就是1XX代。因此，我們看到大量的位元最終必須升級到 2XX-plus。因此我們不知道這一過程的具體速率和速度。

Right now, we see a strong move in that direction. And obviously, we're watching for that. But Lam is in an incredibly good position on two fronts. One is the fact that we are the ones who upgrade our own tools. And so we capture a tremendous amount of the wallet, the spend associated with upgrading the tools that are in place.

現在，我們看到了朝著這個方向的強勁進展。顯然，我們正在關注這一點。但林鄭月娥在兩方面都處於極為有利的地位。一是，我們自己升級了自己的工具。因此，我們獲得了巨額資金，用於升級現有工具的相關支出。

At the same time, as we described at our Investor Day, as you extend beyond the 2XX to the 3XX and 4XX layers, you begin to need additional new tooling to enable that stacking. We talked about the sacrificial carbon gap fill that helps enable tier stacking. We talked about the backside deposition tool that helps with wafer stress as we move beyond 200 layers. We talked about the need to change the means of gap fill to an ALD gap fill.

同時，正如我們在投資者日所描述的，當您從 2XX 層擴展到 3XX 層和 4XX 層時，您開始需要額外的新工具來實現這種堆疊。我們討論了有助於實現層級堆疊的犧牲碳間隙填充。我們討論了背面沉積工具，它有助於在超過 200 層時降低晶圓應力。我們討論了將間隙填充方法改為 ALD 間隙填充的必要性。

These are things that are new tools. So I think you're going to see a mix. You're going to see existing tools like our etchers. Some of the old and stack dep tool be upgraded.

這些都是新工具。所以我認為你會看到一種混合情況。您將會看到像我們的蝕刻機這樣的現有工具。一些舊的和 stack dep 工具被升級。

I think then you'll see new tools being added. And one of those most significant new tools from a technology perspective is what I talked about in my script, which is the Halo Moly, and we're seeing strong momentum there. And eventually, because of the improvement it makes in terms of resistance and that impact on device performance, we think that ultimately broadens out and is adopted across all customers.

我想你會看到新的工具被添加。從技術角度來看，最重要的新工具之一就是我在劇本中談到的 Halo Moly，我們看到了它的強勁發展勢頭。最終，由於它在阻力方面的改進以及對設備性能的影響，我們認為它最終會擴大並被所有客戶採用。

Very helpful. I guess as my follow-up, your Taiwan revenues in the quarter were spectacular. I think the highest level that I can see over the last decade or more. And I guess, curious on kind of two fronts. One, how sustainable is that contribution to Lam? And then how does that inform your thinking about what second-half tool shipments could look like versus first half? Thanks so much.

非常有幫助。我想作為我的後續問題，你們本季在台灣的收入非常可觀。我認為這是過去十年或更長時間以來我所見過的最高水平。我想，我對兩方面都很好奇。第一，對林鄭月娥的貢獻能持續多久？那麼，這如何讓您了解下半年工具出貨量與上半年相比會如何呢？非常感謝。

Actually, C.J., let me just start from the standpoint of the comments we've made around leading-edge foundry logic strength. It's been our stated strategy for the last several years to invest in new tooling to increase our exposure to leading-edge foundry logic.

實際上，C.J.，讓我從我們對前沿代工邏輯實力的評論的角度開始。過去幾年來，我們一直堅持投資新工具以增加我們對尖端代工邏輯的了解。

And so I don't think it should come as any surprise when we talk about record foundry revenues, we talked about strength in places like Taiwan. A lot of that is coming because we've been executing on the new product roadmaps, and I talked about the Akara, conductor etch tool off to a strong start. We talked about SPARC ALD in my prepared remarks.

因此，當我們談論創紀錄的代工收入時，我認為這並不奇怪，我們談論的是台灣等地的實力。其中很多是因為我們一直在執行新的產品路線圖，而且我談到了 Akara，導體蝕刻工具開局強勁。我們在我的準備發言中討論了 SPARC ALD。

I mean it goes well beyond that. Obviously, advanced packaging, a big portion of that as well. Lam is really well situated in the technology inflections that are coming in leading-edge foundry logic. And I think that accounts for a lot of the strength. And I'll let Doug answer kind of the second part of that.

我的意思是它的意義遠不止於此。顯然，先進封裝也佔了很大一部分。Lam 在尖端代工邏輯領域的技術變革中佔據著非常有利的地位。我認為這說明了很大一部分的力量。我會讓 Doug 來回答第二部的問題。

Yeah. I mean, Tim covered it. It's sustainable, C.J. It's not going away. It's all about the gate all around node, and it's all about advanced packaging. It's all the stuff we've been talking about. So not much to add from Tim's comments.

是的。我的意思是，提姆報道了這一點。它是可持續的，C.J。它不會消失。這一切都與閘極周圍節點有關，也與先進封裝有關。這就是我們一直在談論的所有內容。因此，蒂姆的評論沒有什麼可補充的。

Timothy Arcuri, UBS.

瑞銀的提摩西·阿庫裡。

Tim, you made a comment on the call that you were -- I think you said taking steps to limit the impact of tariffs. Can you talk about that? I guess you do have a free trade zone in Fremont.

提姆，你在電話中評論說——我想你說過要採取措施限制關稅的影響。你能談談這個嗎？我猜弗里蒙特確實有一個自由貿易區。

And then when you make the tools in Malaysia, the country margin is Malaysia. So you should be fine there, too. But you did say taking steps to limit the impact. So can you kind of go into some details on that?

然後，當你在馬來西亞製造工具時，國家邊緣就是馬來西亞。所以你在那裡也應該會過得很好。但您確實說過要採取措施來限制影響。那您可以詳細地講一下這一點嗎？

Well, I don't know that I can go into a lot of details on -- as far as the specific steps. But what I can say is that we've worked hard over the last several years to build a very flexible manufacturing and supply chain operation that's centered around our US operations, operations in Asia, as Doug said, close to our customers, close to the supply chain.

嗯，我不知道我是否可以詳細說明——就具體步驟而言。但我可以說的是，過去幾年我們一直努力建立一個非常靈活的製造和供應鏈營運體系，以我們的美國業務和亞洲業務為中心，正如道格所說，貼近我們的客戶，貼近供應鏈。

And so when I say taking steps, it's no different than what we're always doing. We look at the environment. We look at the customers and then we optimize that capability that we have that exists in many different places in the world to deliver our tools most efficiently and most effectively to our customers.

所以當我說採取措施時，這與我們一直在做的事情沒有什麼不同。我們觀察環境。我們專注於客戶，然後優化我們在世界不同地方的能力，以最高效、最有效地向客戶提供工具。

And so it's kind of what we're always doing. And I think that, that's a result. I mean, that flexibility is, again, part of the strategy we executed when we saw disruptions like COVID and other things over the past years to really broaden out the global capability of our supply chain and manufacturing operations.

這就是我們一直在做的事情。我認為這就是結果。我的意思是，這種靈活性是我們在過去幾年中看到新冠疫情和其他事件等乾擾時執行的策略的一部分，旨在真正拓寬我們的供應鏈和製造業務的全球能力。

And Tim, I'd just remind you, it's Doug. We've got factories all over the world, right? We've got factories in United States, factories in Austria, factories in Malaysia, factories in Taiwan, factories in Korea, and we've been talking about this for a while. The fact that we have that broad footprint enables us to have some level of flexibility. And I guess, I'd just leave it there.

提姆，我只是想提醒你，他是道格。我們的工廠遍佈世界各地，對嗎？我們在美國、奧地利、馬來西亞、台灣、韓國都有工廠，我們已經談論這個問題有一段時間了。事實上，我們擁有廣泛的業務範圍，這讓我們擁有一定程度的靈活性。我想，我就把它留在那裡了。

Cool. Okay, Doug. And then I had a question for you. So sounds like NAND upgrades you think should continue. But if we look at TSMC's CapEx, it looks like it does kind of flatten off as you get to the back half of the year.

涼爽的。好的，道格。然後我有一個問題想問你。聽起來您認為 NAND 升級應該繼續。但如果我們看一下台積電的資本支出，看起來到下半年它確實會趨於平穩。

I know that you don't track your -- business doesn't track to their CapEx. But I think the feeling was that your revenue bias would be a little bit lower in the back half of the year. Is that still the case? If you can give us some sort of puts and takes into the back half of the year, that would be great. Thanks.

我知道您沒有追蹤您的業務—沒有追蹤他們的資本支出。但我認為，今年下半年的收入偏差會稍微低一點。現在還是這樣嗎？如果您能告訴我們下半年的一些收益和利弊，那就太好了。謝謝。

Yeah, Tim, you're exactly right. You remember exactly what we indicated last call, and that's still the right way to think about it. It's a little bit of a first-half-weighted year, and you'll remember, we talked last quarter about the fact that we lost some of those Chinese customers that were -- as we looked into the year, would have been second-half weighted.

是的，提姆，你說得完全正確。您清楚地記得我們上次所說的內容，這仍然是正確的思考方式。今年有點像是上半年的加權年，你會記得，我們​​上個季度談到我們失去了一些中國客戶——當我們回顧今年的情況時，這些客戶本來會在下半年受到加權。

We talked about a number of approximately $700 million of business that we had planned on being there that is no longer there. So thinking about it a little bit first-half weighted is still the right way to have it, Tim.

我們談到了一些原本計劃在那裡開展但現在已經不存在的價值約 7 億美元的業務。因此，提姆，稍微考慮一下上半場的權重仍然是正確的方法。

Harlan Sur, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Harlan Sur。

Maybe to follow up on Tim's question. So on the -- with typical tariffs that were levied on many countries, including Malaysia and Taiwan. Obviously, there's a 90-day reprieve through early July, but let's assume that somehow this doesn't get resolved or you still have some residual tariffs even post-resolution. Like does Lam team have enough manufacturing capability in the US to service your leading-edge customers that are going to be aggressively building out plans here in the US?

也許是為了跟進蒂姆的問題。因此，對包括馬來西亞和台灣在內的許多國家徵收典型關稅。顯然，到 7 月初為止有 90 天的緩刑期，但我們假設這個問題沒有得到解決，或者即使在解決之後仍然有一些剩餘的關稅。例如，Lam 團隊在美國是否擁有足夠的製造能力來服務那些將在美國積極制定計劃的前沿客戶？

I know before your manufacturing consolidation initiatives, you did have manufacturing in Oregon and in California, but not sure how that footprint has changed as you brought on your Malaysia factory.

我知道在你們的製造業整合計畫之前，你們確實在俄勒岡州和加州設有製造工廠，但不確定在你們建立馬來西亞工廠後，這種足跡發生了怎樣的變化。

Yeah. So I would go back to what -- it's a good question. But I'd go back to Doug's comment about our long-standing strategy of putting our capabilities close to our customers. And so you referred to this as, as we see customers expanding aggressively in the US. Obviously, that will occur over a period of time in which we've already shown an ability to be agile within our manufacturing and supply chain, like I mentioned, in response to COVID, where we moved things in regions where we could meet our customers' needs more effectively.

是的。所以我想回到什麼——這是一個好問題。但我想回到道格關於我們長期以來將我們的能力放在客戶身邊的策略的評論。正如您所說，我們看到客戶在美國正在積極擴張。顯然，這將在一段時間內發生，在此期間，我們已經展示了在製造和供應鏈中保持敏捷的能力，正如我所提到的，為了應對 COVID，我們將產品轉移到可以更有效地滿足客戶需求的地區。

I think that if we continue to see more investment in the US, we still have operations, significant manufacturing capabilities, and footprint in the US. And obviously, as each region grows, we reassess what local manufacturing we need to support that capability.

我認為，如果我們繼續在美國看到更多的投資，我們仍然在美國擁有業務、重要的製造能力和足跡。顯然，隨著每個地區的發展，我們會重新評估需要什麼樣的本地製造業來支持這種能力。

Yeah. Harlan, it's Doug. I'd just add, we can't instantaneously change things. But given enough lead time, once you know what the rules are, you can adjust certain things with a period of time. So just think about that. It might take a little bit of time depending on what shows up, but we have an ability to be flexible.

是的。哈蘭，我是道格。我只想補充一點，我們無法立即改變現狀。但是如果有足夠的準備時間，一旦你知道規則是什麼，你就可以在一段時間內調整某些事情。所以想想吧。根據出現的情況，這可能需要一點時間，但我們有能力靈活應對。

Great. Thank you for that. And good to see the very strong performance in the gross margins. Are you seeing near term you have spares and sub-systems inventories that was there before tariffs were put in place? Just wondering if there are some basic materials that you or your sub-system partners sourced from China, which could quickly be a cost headwind for the team, maybe beyond the June quarter, either on spare parts or sub-system side of the business could impact product costs if the tariff headwinds remain.

偉大的。謝謝你。很高興看到毛利率表現非常強勁。您是否發現近期您擁有的備件和子系統庫存與關稅實施之前相同？只是想知道，您或您的子系統合作夥伴是否從中國採購了一些基本材料，如果關稅阻力持續存在，這些材料可能很快會給團隊帶來成本阻力，也許在六月季度之後，無論是備件還是子系統方面的業務都可能影響產品成本。

Listen, Harlan. I don't want to get into everything like what do you have where in which country. We've got a global supply chain footprint. We've got a global manufacturing footprint. We have an ability to respond to different things depending on what the rules are and how they change. I guess I'll just leave it at that.

聽著，哈蘭。我不想涉及所有事情，例如你在哪個國家哪裡有什麼東西。我們的供應鏈遍佈全球。我們的製造業務遍佈全球。根據規則是什麼以及規則如何變化，我們有能力對不同的事情做出反應。我想我就不說了。

Stacy Rasgon, Bernstein Research.

拉斯貢（Stacy Rasgon），伯恩斯坦研究公司。

First, it does sound to me like your -- based on your comments that you still expect China revenues mix to be down in the second half versus the first half. I guess can you just confirm that that is correct? And if that is true, does that have any implications for the sustainability of the gross margins at this level given that China's business has tended to have higher gross margins? Like how do we think about the gross margin sustainability into the back half at these levels, given those dynamics?

首先，根據您的評論，您仍然預計下半年中國市場的收入結構將比上半年下降。我想您能確認一下這是正確的嗎？如果這是真的，考慮到中國的業務往往具有較高的毛利率，這對這一水平的毛利率的可持續性有何影響？考慮到這些動態，我們如何看待下半年毛利率的可持續性？

Yeah, Stacy, I'm not going to give details on mix quarter by quarter. I still would tell you what we said last quarter was we expect the China concentration year over year to be down. That's still absolutely what we expect. Quarter to quarter, things might bounce around a little bit, but I'm not going to give you specific details on the quarter-by-quarter amount.

是的，史黛西，我不會逐季度提供有關組合的詳細資訊。我仍然可以告訴你我們上個季度說過的話，我們預計中國集中度將比去年同期下降。這仍然是我們所期望的。每個季度的情況可能會有一點波動，但我不會向你提供每個季度的具體細節。

But you're right, gross margin will go up and down depending on customer mix, product mix, overall revenue levels. It's a very complicated calculation when you look at all the things that move it around. So there will be variability there.

但您說得對，毛利率會根據客戶組合、產品組合和整體收入水平而上升或下降。當你考慮所有影響它的事情時，你會發現這是一個非常複雜的計算。因此那裡會有變化。

I guess, so should I not be thinking about gross margin sustainable at these levels into the back half then? Or do you think it will be the variability around the current level or what?

我想，那我是不是應該考慮下半年毛利率能否維持在這樣的水平呢？或者您認為它會圍繞當前水平變化還是什麼？

Yeah, there will be variability around the current level, Stacy. It won't go up every quarter. It will bounce around a little bit.

是的，當前水平會有所不同，史黛西。它不會每個季度都上漲。它會稍微彈動一下。

Okay. So I mean, should I be thinking about it going down just to be direct?

好的。所以我的意思是，我是否應該考慮讓它直接下降？

Yeah. Variability means it will go up sometimes, it will go down sometimes.

是的。多變性意味著它有時會上升，有時會下降。

Okay, okay. So my follow-up is very quickly. I think last quarter you said you thought services at CSBG revenues would probably be flat year over year in the calendar year. Is that still your expectation?

好的，好的。所以我的後續行動非常迅速。我認為上個季度您說過，您認為 CSBG 的服務收入在日曆年內可能會與去年同期持平。這仍然是您的期望嗎？

Yeah, flattish is how we describe it. Reliant will have some headwinds offset by the tailwinds that the upgrade part of the business has, Stacy, yeah.

是的，我們用「略微平坦」來形容它。是的，Reliant 會面臨一些阻力，但業務升級帶來的阻力會抵消這些阻力，Stacy，是的。

Krish Sankar, TD Cowen & Company.

Krish Sankar，TD Cowen & Company。

Yeah, I had two questions. One is just to double check on this overseas manufacturing. Doug, can you meet all of your non-US customer demand from your non-US manufacturing sites like Malaysia and Taiwan?

是的，我有兩個問題。一是要再檢查海外製造的情況。道格，您能從馬來西亞和台灣等美國以外的製造基地滿足所有美國以外客戶的需求嗎？

Krish, I'm not -- sorry, Krish, I'm not going to get into the exact details, right? We don't build every single tool at every single factory, but with enough lead time, we can adjust depending on what is where. And like I said earlier on the call, depending on what the rules end up being, we can move things around as necessary, not instantaneously though.

Krish，我不是——抱歉，Krish，我不想講得太詳細，對吧？我們不會在每個工廠生產每種工具，但只要有足夠的準備時間，我們就可以根據地點的情況進行調整。正如我之前在電話中所說的那樣，根據最終規則，我們可以根據需要調整事情，但不是立即調整。

Got it, got it. And a question on China, too. I understand many of your Chinese customers are probably not -- don't have much long tenure. But I'm curious, what is the visibility into China? Because when you look at the last three years, it seemed like China surprised at the upside for WFE and demand. Do you think a similar scenario could play out this year or the calculation is different this time around?

明白了，明白了。還有一個關於中國的問題。我知道你們的許多中國客戶可能都沒有長期合作。但我很好奇，在中國的能見度如何？因為當你回顧過去三年時，你會發現中國似乎對 WFE 和需求的上升趨勢感到驚訝。您認為今年會出現類似的情況嗎？或者這次的計算方法會有所不同？

I don't know that it's really all that different. Every customer, Krish, whether they're new or they've been around a decade, communicates plans on what they intend to do, where they intend to go. They all have roadmaps. They'll tell you what they want to do. It's no different in a region like China or Korea or Taiwan, frankly.

我不知道這真的有那麼大的不同。Krish，每個顧客，無論是新顧客還是已經光顧了十年的顧客，都會告知他們打算做什麼、打算去哪裡。他們都有路線圖。他們會告訴你他們想做什麼。坦白說，中國、韓國或台灣等地區的情況也沒有什麼不同。

Srini Pajjuri, Raymond James.

Srini Pajjuri，雷蒙德‧詹姆斯。

Question on the foundry logic. I know you get a lot of questions from NAND. It's up 60% sequentially, and I think you're guiding for growth again. Of course, we all know that advance logic spending is coming back here. But if you could maybe parse it out to what extent this is just the spending coming back versus -- you talked about GAA being a driver and backside power being a driver. And also, you talked about share gains in the past. If you could kind of help us understand what's driving that sequential strength and customer strength into the June quarter.

關於代工邏輯的問題。我知道您收到了很多有關 NAND 的問題。它比上一季成長了 60%，我認為你又在預測成長了。當然，我們都知道，預先邏輯支出又回來了。但如果你可以分析一下，這在多大程度上只是支出的回流，而不是——你談到了 GAA 是驅動因素，而後方力量是驅動因素。另外，您也談到了過去的股價上漲。如果您能幫助我們了解推動 6 月季度連續強勁成長和客戶強勁成長的因素是什麼？

Yeah. No, we obviously are like talking about the foundry logic story because you just highlighted a couple of really big drivers for us. We're talking about it as $1-plus billion technology inflections. You left out a couple, though. So of course, talk about gate all-around nodes and how we're really putting a lot of new tools to support that transition.

是的。不，我們顯然是在談論代工邏輯的故事，因為您剛剛為我們強調了幾個非常重要的驅動因素。我們將其視為價值超過 10 億美元的技術變革。但你漏掉了幾個。當然，我們要談論的是全門控節點，以及我們如何真正投入大量新工具來支援這種轉變。

Backside power obviously plays well for an etch and deposition company where you're looking at more metallization, interconnect layers going on to the backside and those being thicker and generally requiring more tooling. What you left out was the advanced packaging and the important role that it's playing and the role that Lam has in really a very significant leadership position and steps like TSV etch, copper plating, many of the dielectric deposition films that are required for advanced packaging. And that's an area where, from both a served market as a percent of total WFE spending, we've kind of reset the mark for us relative to foundry logic. And so advanced packaging is big.

對於蝕刻和沈積公司來說，背面功率顯然發揮良好的作用，因為您需要更多的金屬化、背面的互連層，而且這些層更厚，通常需要更多的工具。您忽略了先進封裝及其發揮的重要作用，以及 Lam 所佔據的非常重要的領導地位，以及 TSV 蝕刻、鍍銅、先進封裝所需的許多介電沉積膜等步驟。在這個領域，從服務市場佔 WFE 總支出的百分比來看，我們已經重新設定了相對於代工邏輯的標準。因此先進封裝非常重要。

And then the one that's still small but coming is progress we're making on dry EUV resist processing, which when you look out and you think about continued shrinking on the foundry logic roadmap and the challenges with lithography, we think it has a big role to play in, and we are making progress there, both on the DRAM side, which we previously announced at our Investor Day but also making progress with advanced customers on the foundry logic side as well. So it's a lot of technology opportunity for a company like Lam.

然後，我們在乾式 EUV 光阻處理方面取得了一些進展，雖然進展不大，但正在取得進展。當你觀察並思考代工邏輯路線圖的持續縮小以及光刻技術的挑戰時，我們認為它將發揮重要作用，而且我們在這方面正在取得進展，包括 DRAM 方面（我們之前在投資者日宣布過），同時也在代工邏輯方面與先進客戶的合作中取得了進展。因此，對於像 Lam 這樣的公司來說，這是一個很大的技術機會。

Yeah, that's helpful. Thanks, Tim. And then at a high level, Tim, I know you guided for mid-single-digit WFE growth and you're kind of maintaining that. But if I look at your first-quarter results and also your second-quarter outlook, you're growing north of 20%. So is this the level of outperformance that you expect for, I guess, for the rest of the year?

是的，這很有幫助。謝謝，蒂姆。然後從高層來看，蒂姆，我知道你指導了中等個位數的 WFE 增長，而且你正在保持這一水平。但如果我看一下你們第一季的業績以及第二季的展望，你們的成長率將超過 20%。那麼，我猜這是您預期今年剩餘時間的優異表現水準嗎？

I mean, how should we think about it if WFE's growth 5%? And how should we kind of think about your level of outperformance expectation going forward?

我的意思是，如果 WFE 成長 5%，我們該如何看待它？我們該如何看待您未來的卓越表現預期水準？

Yeah, I don't think we're ready to quantify that number specifically, but we have talked about outperformance of WFE overall. Obviously, the mix and where the spending is occurring, how much of that spending is on those advanced technologies were Lam's served market has stepped up and we've got new tools going in, that comes into play as well.

是的，我認為我們還沒有準備好具體量化這個數字，但我們已經討論了 WFE 整體的優異表現。顯然，支出的組合和支出發生的地方，這些支出中有多少用於那些先進技術，而 Lam 所服務的市場已經加強，並且我們已經投入了新的工具，這些也發揮了作用。

But overall, I think I finished my prepared remarks with a comment about being highly confident in our ability to outgrow. And I think that's where we'll probably leave it.

但總的來說，我認為我已經以「對我們的成長能力充滿信心」結束了我的準備好的發言。我想我們可能就會就此打住。

Atif Malik, Citi.

花旗銀行的阿蒂夫馬利克 (Atif Malik)。

The first question on WFE. I understand you guys are maintaining the $100 billion range as it's still -- there's no meaningful change in customer plan. One of your North American customer's going through some major restructuring. And we get asked from investors if you guys have baked in kind of a net neutral spending scenario for the logic customers in an event that customer tends to abandon the foundry plans or change its direction.

第一個問題關於 WFE。我知道你們仍維持 1000 億美元的範圍，因為客戶計劃沒有任何重大變化。您的一位北美客戶正在進行重大重組。投資人問我們，如果客戶傾向於放棄代工計畫或改變方向，你們是否為邏輯客戶設計了一種淨中性支出方案。

I guess what I would say, and I won't talk about any one specific customer. I mean, generally speaking, you guys hear about something, we've known about it well in advance of whatever you're hearing, because they got to tell us what they're doing and if we're going to have people there, we're going to have spare parts there to do installation and whatnot. So yes, to the best of our ability, we've contemplated everything we've seen in the totality of the market.

我想說的是，我不會談論任何一個特定的客戶。我的意思是，一般來說，你們聽到的一些事情，我們早就知道了，因為他們必須告訴我們他們在做什麼，如果我們要派人去那裡，我們就會有備件在那裡進行安裝等等。所以是的，我們盡最大努力考慮了整個市場中看到的一切。

I totally understand. Doug, I have a follow-up for you. In your prepared remarks, I think you mentioned that your outlook for June quarter, you do not see any pull-ins from future quarters. So I'm just curious, is that comment based on the fact that the lead times are super long for your tools or your customer pipeline kind of has not changed much from what you were seeing 90 days ago? So if you could just expand on what is that comment based on.

我完全理解。道格，我有一個後續問題想問你。在您準備好的發言中，我想您提到了對 6 月季度的展望，您認為未來幾季不會有任何拉動。所以我很好奇，這個評論是基於你們的工具的交貨時間非常長，還是你們的客戶管道與 90 天前相比沒有太大變化？因此，如果您可以詳細說明該評論的依據是什麼。

Atif, it's based on plans that we've known these customers have had in place well in advance of even 90 days ago, right? If I think back to late last year, the outlook that we had for the current quarter that we just guided has not changed.

Atif，這是基於我們所知的這些客戶早在 90 天前就已經制定好的計劃，對嗎？如果我回想一下去年年底，我們剛剛預測的本季前景並沒有改變。

Frankly, Atif, the whole year hasn't changed. Now I don't want you to communicate -- or I don't want to communicate, hey, could something change? Of course, anything can change. But we're not seeing anything change in the environment.

坦白說，阿蒂夫，全年都沒有什麼變化。現在我不想跟你交流──或者我不想交流，嘿，能改變什麼嗎？當然，任何事情都可能改變。但我們並未看到環境有任何變化。

We're staying very diligent on contemplating, okay, tariffs are out there, might that have a macro impact, might the economy gets softer. Of course, we're aware of those things.

我們正在非常認真地考慮，關稅是否存在，是否會產生宏觀影響，是否會導致經濟變得疲軟。當然，我們知道這些事情。

Could that negatively impact things at some point? It could. We're not seeing anything else. So I wanted to be very specific about saying that to you guys so you understand. Nothing's changing that we can see.

這會在某種程度上對事情產生負面影響嗎？有可能。我們沒有看到任何其他東西。所以我想非常具體地告訴你們這一點，以便你們理解。我們看不到任何改變。

Vivek Arya, Bank of America.

美國銀行的維韋克·艾瑞亞（Vivek Arya）。

For the first one, if all China restrictions are already captured in your March results and June guide, why couldn't your second-half sales be at or above first-half levels? I guess my real question is what non-restricted customer or end market could drop in the second half versus the first half?

對於第一個問題，如果所有中國限制都已反映在你們 3 月份的業績和 6 月份的指南中，那麼為什麼你們下半年的銷售額不能達到或超過上半年的水平呢？我想我真正的問題是，與上半年相比，下半年不受限制的客戶或終端市場會下降多少？

Vivek, it's just the totality of the market, right? Nothing grows every single quarter. And when we look at everything that we see going on relative to customers' plans and timing of things, it's a little bit first-half weighted. It's not one customer or even one or two customers, just how the plans of our customers are laying out in total.

Vivek，這只是整個市場，對嗎？每個季度都沒有成長。當我們觀察與客戶計劃和時間表相關的所有事情時，我們發現上半年的情況略有加權。這不是一個客戶，甚至不是一個或兩個客戶，而是我們客戶的整體計劃如何佈局。

Yeah. We've talked about it in the past. I mean, some of these projects are quite lumpy and there's periods of large shipments, and then we spend a lot of time installing and the customer ramps those tools and then the next phase of the expansion comes in. And I think that's especially true when you talk about upgrades that are occurring in some of these fabs where they may not all be occurring over a very short period of time. They'll be spread out and they might be lumpy in particular quarters.

是的。我們以前討論過這個問題。我的意思是，其中一些項目相當不平衡，並且有大量貨物運輸的時期，然後我們花費大量時間進行安裝，客戶使用這些工具，然後進行下一階段的擴展。我認為，當你談論一些晶圓廠正在進行的升級時尤其如此，因為這些升級可能不會在很短的時間內全部完成。它們會分散開來，並且可能集中在特定的區域。

I guess what I'm trying to ask is is this second-half [right] is that impacted in any way from China restrictions? Because, I mean, you should not be shipping to any restricted customers already. So what they do in the second half should not matter.

我想問的是，下半年是否會受到中國限制的影響？因為，我的意思是，您不應該向任何受限制的客戶發貨。因此他們在下半場的表現並不重要。

And is it just conservatism about the non-restricted customers or lumpiness in the back half? I'm just trying to understand how second half could look like.

這只是針對非限制性客戶的保守態度，還是後半部的不穩定性？我只是想了解下半場會是什麼樣子。

Vivek, you're overly focused on China. What we did describe is, hey, if you go back to early December, there were some customers we were shipping to last year that all of a sudden became restricted. The plans those customers had we're second-half weighted. So that kind of went away from what we're looking at.

維韋克，你過於關注中國了。我們確實描述了，嘿，如​​果你回到 12 月初，我們去年發貨的一些客戶突然受到了限制。這些客戶的計畫都是針對下半年的。所以這與我們所關注的有所不同。

So if not for that, right, we were describing a second half that's different in profile than what we see right now. I don't know if we're confusing you or if I'm confusing you with that, Vivek.

所以如果不是這樣，那麼，我們所描述的下半場與我們現在看到的下半場在概況上有所不同。我不知道是我們讓您感到困惑，還是我讓您感到困惑，維韋克。

No, not at all. I just wanted to clarify. For the second one, on the gross margin upside, how much benefit that could you get from just the CSBG being down in terms of mix? So kind of that being a headwind versus the benefit from perhaps shipping more from Malaysia.

不，一點也不。我只是想澄清一下。對於第二個問題，就毛利率上升而言，僅從 CSBG 組合角度來看下降能帶來多少好處？因此，這有點像是逆風，而不是可能從馬來西亞增加運輸量帶來的好處。

So is there a point at which CSBG starts to grow and that becomes a headwind to gross margin? So I guess, back to the can gross margin sort of sustain at these levels. What are the positives or negatives? And then is 50% line of sight for you right now?

那麼，CSBG 是否會在某個點開始成長，並成為毛利率的阻力？所以我想，回到毛利率能否維持在這些水準的問題上。其優點和缺點是什麼？那麼現在您的視線範圍是 50% 嗎？

Listen, CSBG moving around really doesn't do a whole lot relative to the variability in gross margin right now. That's not kind of when I go through the reconciliation, anything I'm seeing, frankly.

聽著，CSBG 的變動對於目前毛利率的變化確實沒有太大影響。坦白說，那不是我所經歷的和解，我所看到的任何事情。

Here's an interesting observation I had as I was prepping for earnings that might be interesting for you guys to think about, too. If you go back to late 2022, and that was kind of the last time we're at these revenue levels. Gross margin was 45% to 46%, and our 48%, 49%.

這是我在準備獲利時發現的一個有趣的現象，也許你們也會對此感興趣。如果你回顧 2022 年末，那大概是我們最後一次達到這樣的收入水準。毛利率為45%至46%，我們的為48%至49%。

At that period of time, the overall geographic mix was fairly similar to what we're seeing today. And so if you think about it, over that timeframe, what's changed? What's changed is our close-to-customer strategy, right? That's uplift to gross margin.

在那個時期，整體的地理分佈與我們今天看到的非常相似。那如果你仔細想想，在這段時間內，發生了什麼變化？改變的是我們的貼近客戶策略，對嗎？這提高了毛利率。

Frankly, if you normalize for everything, I don't know, 200 basis points, maybe even a little bit more, it's come from what we've done with the company, frankly. So I think Tim and I feel really good about that. That's the strategy we executed. It's benefiting customers, too. Because we're closer, we can turn things more quickly, and frankly, we can do it more affordably. So that's the big reason over the last several years that gross margin has performed the way it has. That's the most important thing to be thinking about from my point of view.

坦白說，如果你將所有東西都標準化，我不知道，200 個基點，甚至可能更多一點，坦白說，這來自於我們對公司所做的事情。所以我認為蒂姆和我對此感覺非常好。這就是我們執行的策略。這也使顧客受益。因為我們更接近，所以我們可以更快地完成任務，坦白說，我們可以以更經濟的方式完成任務。這就是為什麼過去幾年毛利率表現如此好的主要原因。從我的角度來看，這是最重要的事。

Blayne Curtis, Jefferies.

布萊恩‧柯蒂斯，傑富瑞集團。

I actually want to ask, I know I probably already know the answer, you said things haven't really changed since the tariffs. I'm just kind of curious your conversation with customers. I mean, there's some sense people think, hey, they'll pull in ahead of tariffs. The other sense is demand destruction and maybe a little rethink their capacity for the second half.

我實際上想問，我知道我可能已經知道答案了，你說自關稅以來情況並沒有真正改變。我只是有點好奇您與客戶的對話。我的意思是，人們會認為，嘿，他們會在關稅之前採取行動。另一種感覺是需求破壞，也許需要重新考慮下半年的產能。

So can we walk through what your conversations have been? I know you said overall, nothing changed, but I'm just kind of curious how customers are thinking about this.

那我們可以回顧一下你們的談話內容嗎？我知道您說總體來說沒有任何改變，但我只是有點好奇客戶對此有何看法。

Sure. I'll take a shot at it. Obviously, as I mentioned in my comments, we've been having a lot of conversations with customers to back in for changes. I think over the timeframe which we've been operating, which is essentially kind of two months -- less than two months with this discussion around tariffs. customers really are not -- haven't thought about really what they would be looking for for the demand changes. Those are going to occur over a longer period of time.

當然。我會嘗試一下。顯然，正如我在評論中提到的那樣，我們一直在與客戶進行大量對話，以支持變革。我認為，就我們營運的時間而言，基本上是兩個月——關於關稅的討論還不到兩個月。客戶其實並沒有——真正考慮過他們對於需求變化到底有何期待。這些現象將會在較長時間內發生。

These projects are multi-year investments. They've fought through them. In many cases, their technology investments to ensure that they have the right products. We spent a lot of time in our Investor Day talking about the debate around NAND bits and the need. And I think we were trying to make the case at that point of independent of end demand you need a higher quality, more capable bit to compete for the types of applications that are needed in AI.

這些項目是多年期投資。他們已經克服了困難。在許多情況下，他們的技術投資確保他們擁有正確的產品。我們在投資者日花了很多時間討論有關 NAND 位和需求的爭論。我認為，我們當時試圖證明的是，無論最終需求如何，你都需要更高品質、更強大的晶片來競爭人工智慧所需的應用類型。

I think you see the same thing on foundry logic, you see the same thing for the investments being made in advanced packaging. And so maybe there's a little bit of a disconnect between a true end-demand discussion and a technology positioning and a fair bit of the momentum that we're talking about for our business is really coming from engaging customers at the leading edge, where I think strategically, they feel they don't have as much of a choice but to continue to invest in those areas to make sure they're as competitive as they can be.

我認為您在代工邏輯上會看到相同的情況，在先進封裝的投資上也會看到相同的情況。因此，真正的終端需求討論和技術定位之間可能存在一些脫節，我們所談論的業務發展動力很大一部分實際上來自於吸引處於前沿的客戶，我認為從戰略上講，他們覺得他們別無選擇，只能繼續在這些領域投資，以確保他們盡可能具有競爭力。

That's a broad statement. It may vary customer by customer. But it's how we are engaged with our customers to make sure that however this plays out they are competitive in their markets and Lam is positioned with the tools that we've been investing for years to place in those labs to help them.

這是一個廣泛的說法。它可能因客戶而異。但這就是我們與客戶互動的方式，以確保無論結果如何，他們在市場上都具有競爭力，而 Lam 則利用我們多年來一直在投資的工具來幫助他們。

And then for my second, I just want to ask, Doug, in terms of the guidance on the gross margin, is there any impact from tariffs? It's a little bit confusing. There's a minimum tariff. I know we have the 90-day reprieve, but I'm just kind of curious if you factored in anything.

然後，對於我的第二個問題，我只想問，道格，就毛利率指導而言，關稅有影響嗎？這有點令人困惑。有一個最低關稅。我知道我們有 90 天的緩刑期，但我只是有點好奇你是否考慮了任何事情。

Yeah, Blayne, there absolutely is an impact, but it's contemplating -- based on everything we know and everything we understand, it's contemplated in that guidance of 49.5%. But I don't want to communicate there's not an impact. There is absolutely an impact.

是的，布萊恩，肯定會有影響，但我們正在考慮——根據我們所知道的一切和我們所理解的一切，我們在 49.5% 的指導中已經考慮到了這一點。但我不想傳達沒有影響力的訊息。絕對有影響。

Okay. But is there any way to quantify it or you don't want to go there?

好的。但是有沒有什麼方法可以量化它，否則你就不想去那裡了？

I'm not going to go there.

我不會去那裡。

Mehdi Hosseini, SIG.

邁赫迪·胡賽尼（Mehdi Hosseini），SIG。

Two follow-ups. Is there any way we could think about WFE in terms of strategic investment versus technology upgrade, which could also be a strategic versus maintenance?

兩次後續行動。我們是否可以從策略投資與技術升級的角度來考慮 WFE，這也可以作為策略與維護的角度來考慮？

And then separately, highlighting with the capacity addition. And I'm asking this question because if you think about all the questions that have been asked, put to you over the past half an hour, it either has to do with China or sensitivity of the $100 billion WFE to macro picture. And I'm trying to understand how we could better think about the downside risk, which could be mostly related to wafer capacity add.

然後分別突出顯示容量增加。我之所以問這個問題，是因為如果你思考過去半小時內提出的所有問題，你會發現這些問題要么與中國有關，要么與 1000 億美元 WFE 對宏觀形勢的敏感性有關。我試圖了解如何更好地考慮下行風險，這可能主要與晶圓產能增加有關。

Any color would be great. And I have a follow-up.

任何顏色都很好。我還有一個後續問題。

Sure, Mehdi. I think I acknowledge what you're saying. Most of the questions have come in this area, but if you look at where I focused most of my prepared remarks, it's on Lam's long-term outperformance and even outperformance in this year. And that's simply because what really matters from our company perspective and what the short term and long term is product alignment to the key technology roadmaps of our customers in the industry, how we enable that, how we get those products out.

當然，梅赫迪。我想我承認你所說的話。大多數問題都涉及這個領域，但如果你看一下我準備的大部分發言的重點，你會發現我主要關注的是林鄭月娥的長期優異表現，甚至是今年的優異表現。這是因為從我們公司的角度來看，短期和長期來看真正重要的是產品與產業客戶的關鍵技術路線圖的一致性，我們如何實現這一點，如何推出這些產品。

We're only two months removed from our Investor Day where we described an opportunity to significantly outperformed the industry in terms of served market expansion as deposition and etch intensity grows, and also to gain share because we have a unique opportunity to increase our served markets faster in some of the key markets like foundry logic.

距離投資者日僅過去兩個月，我們在投資者日上描述了一個機會，隨著沉積和蝕刻強度的增加，我們在服務市場擴張方面將顯著超越行業，同時還將獲得市場份額，因為我們擁有獨特的機會，可以在一些關鍵市場（如代工邏輯）更快地擴大我們服務的市場。

And so when we look at this year, and I think both Doug and I said, we're pleased with the execution of the company. I think a lot of it, of course, is around the financial performance. But even more so, it's around the seeds we're planting for future outperformance in the latest R&D fab, the latest strategic investments. And I think that's ultimately what's more important to Lam's future regardless of where WFE happens to be in any given year.

因此，當我們回顧今年時，我想道格和我都說，我們對公司的執行感到滿意。當然，我認為這很大程度上與財務業績有關。但更重要的是，我們在最新的研發工廠和最新的策略投資中為未來的卓越表現播下了種子。我認為，無論 WFE 在哪一年處於什麼位置，這對 Lam 的未來來說才是最重要的。

And so I like your question, and it's like it's what we try to address with our scripted remarks.

我喜歡你的問題，這也是我們試圖透過腳本化的評論來解決的問題。

Sure. Thank you. And a follow-up for Doug. If I just take the midpoint of the June quarter guide, it seems to me that the operating drop-through margin of like almost 90% is reflecting all the investment of the past couple of years. And now there is limited incremental increase in operating margin. And this is how you're going to scale incremental increase in revenue.

當然。謝謝。以及 Doug 的後續行動。如果我只取六月季度指南的中點，那麼在我看來，近 90% 的營業下降幅度反映了過去幾年的所有投資。目前營業利益率的增量成長有限。這就是您如何擴大收入增量的方法。

Is that the right way to think about sustainability of the margin?

這是思考利潤可持續性的正確方法嗎？

I guess, what I'd point out is we're growing R&D. We're growing R&D because we see these amazingly unique opportunities for us to continue to outperform, right? The intensity of action deposition is growing. And so we're putting our foot on the gas a little bit relative to growing R&D because we see an opportunity to continue to expand the addressable markets as well as gain share.

我想指出的是，我們正在加強研發。我們之所以加強研發力度，是因為我們看到了這些令人驚嘆的獨特機會，可以讓我們繼續保持卓越的表現，對嗎？行動沉積的強度不斷加大。因此，我們在加大研發投入方面加大了力度，因為我們看到了繼續擴大目標市場和增加份額的機會。

Absolutely not apologizing for this because as I pointed out, this is an all-time record of operating margin for this company. I think Tim and I feel extraordinarily good about what we're delivering right now, and we want to keep doing that. And so we're investing to make that happen.

我絕對不會為此道歉，因為正如我指出的那樣，這是該公司營業利潤率的歷史最高紀錄。我認為蒂姆和我對我們目前所做的事情感到非常滿意，並且我們希望繼續這樣做。因此我們正在投資以實現這一目標。

Yeah. And that captures the incremental drop-through that you're capturing here?

是的。這是否捕獲了您在此處捕獲的增量下降？

It's part of it, yes.

是的，這是其中的一部分。

Joe Moore, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的喬摩爾。

Yeah. Thank you. I wonder if I could ask a little bit more on CSBG kind of flat for the year. You said Reliant is a headwind. Can you just give us a sense for the rank order of the sub-segments within CSBG how big is Reliant now? And is there also a headwind on the service and spares from some of the restrictions in China?

是的。謝謝。我想知道我是否可以多問一些有關 CSBG 年度公寓的問題。您說 Reliant 是一個逆風。您能否向我們介紹一下 CSBG 內各個子部門的排名順序？ Reliant 現在的規模有多大？中國的一些限制是否也會對服務和備件造成不利影響？

Yeah, of course. As those customers all of a sudden became restricted, we can no longer provide service and spares. So that factors into this, too. But I mean, what you have going on is we described the point of view that China's down as a percent of total year over year. So that's the Reliat statement, right? A lot of the tools going in China are Reliant.

是的，當然。由於這些客戶突然受到限制，我們無法再提供服務和備件。這也是其中一個因素。但我的意思是，我們所闡述的觀點是，中國出口佔比年減。這就是 Reliat 的聲明，對嗎？很多進入中國市場的工具都是 Reliant 的。

And then we have this amazing upgrade business right now that's showing up, especially in NAND, right? Not just NAND, but it's quite strong in NAND. And so when you think about those two things kind of offsetting each other, overall utilization year over year is stronger, so that's beneficial for spares and service.

然後我們現在有了令人驚嘆的升級業務，特別是在 NAND 領域，對吧？不僅僅是NAND，而且在NAND方面相當強大。因此，當您考慮將這兩件事相互抵消時，整體利用率就會逐年提高，這對備件和服務都是有利的。

There's a lot of moving pieces in here. Spares continues to be the biggest individual component of CSBG. And then upgrades are growing a bunch this year and Reliant is down.

這裡有很多活動部件。備件繼續成為 CSBG 最大的單獨組成部分。今年升級量大幅成長，而 Reliant 卻陷入下滑。

Yeah. The only thing I would add is, again, just like for many years, we were viewed as strong in NAND and we've certainly made investments to broaden our portfolio quite successfully in foundry, logic, and DRAM.

是的。我唯一想補充的是，就像多年來一樣，我們在 NAND 領域被視為實力雄厚，而且我們確實進行了投資，成功地擴大了我們在代工、邏輯和 DRAM 領域的產品組合。

In the services side as well, we've talked a lot about Reliant, we've talked a lot about upgrades. But you're starting to hear us talk a lot more about intelligent services, equipment intelligence, cobots, the types of capabilities that our customers are going to need, especially as they think about expanding their global manufacturing presence, where there might not be as many people who are skilled at bringing up and ramping a advanced manufacturing fab.

在服務方面，我們也討論了很多有關 Reliant 的事情，也討論了很多有關升級的事情。但你開始聽到我們更多地談論智慧服務、設備智慧、協作機器人以及我們的客戶將需要的功能類型，特別是當他們考慮擴大其全球製造業務時，可能沒有那麼多人擅長建立和擴大先進製造工廠。

And so we think things like cobots, equipment intelligence, the use of AI to make sure our engineers are equipped to troubleshoot and repair those tools faster. Those are things that are going to allow us to then perhaps grow our services business to be even a larger portion of that total CSBG and that's a real focus for us.

因此，我們考慮使用協作機器人、設備智慧和人工智慧等來確保我們的工程師能夠更快地排除故障並修復這些工具。這些事情可能會讓我們的服務業務成長到佔整個 CSBG 的更大份額，這是我們真正關注的重點。

That's helpful. Thank you. And within Reliant, that used to be kind of a refurbished tools business. And then for a while, everything was so tight that there were no refurbish tools so as all new tools. Like can you just -- is there anything changing in that business? How much of that is kind of new tools? And are you seeing the refurbishment kind of come back into the picture there on Reliant?

這很有幫助。謝謝。在 Reliant 內部，這曾經是一種翻新工具業務。然後有一段時間，一切都很緊張，沒有翻新工具，只有新工具。例如，你能不能──這項業務有什麼變化？其中有多少是新工具？您是否看到 Reliant 重新開始進行翻新工程？

Joe, it's still all new tools. There's really not any refurbishment in the industry today, not really.

喬，這仍然是所有新工具。如今，這個行業確實沒有任何革新，真的沒有任何革新。

That's right. It is very little. In fact, I mean, we refer a lot more to specialty technologies as well, which sometimes is the use of these tools for really new applications in those more mature fabs.

這是正確的。非常少。事實上，我的意思是，我們也更多地參考了專業技術，有時這些工具在那些更成熟的晶圓廠中用於真正的新應用。

Tom O'Malley, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的湯姆·奧馬利。

I had a broader one. So I think you guys said at the Analyst Day that you will get the upgrades of existing equipment. You thought it was about a $40 billion WFE opportunity. Obviously, if you look at the NAND industry, like the backdrop here is that you may have some impacts to consumer spend, et cetera.

我有一個更寬的。所以我認為你們在分析師日上說過你們將獲得現有設備的升級。您認為這是一個價值 400 億美元的 WFE 機會。顯然，如果你看一下 NAND 產業，你會發現這裡的背景可能會對消費者支出等產生一些影響。

And when you look at like that hand off, how long do you think you can continue to grow on the NAND front before you start to get some green field kick in or some new equipment kick in versus the replacements? Any context around that would be super helpful.

當您考慮這種交接時，您認為在開始獲得一些綠地啟動或一些新設備啟動之前，您可以在 NAND 方面繼續增長多長時間，而不是更換？任何與此相關的背景資訊都會非常有幫助。

Oh, boy, that's a little bit of a difficult question. I thought you were going in the direction of how long will it take us to get through that $40 billion of upgrade which at the Analyst Day, we gave range as the -- yeah, we gave a range. I think we said it could be anywhere from a few years to more than that.

噢，天哪，這個問題有點難。我以為你是想問我們需要多長時間才能完成 400 億美元的升級，在分析師日，我們給出了範圍——是的，我們給了一個範圍。我想我們說過這可能需要幾年甚至更長。

But I think, again, some of these things are in market dependent, and we've talked in the past about the importance of getting the NAND technology up to a point where it can play a significant role in the AI data center and some of the enterprise SSD. That's one of the areas where there is more demand it seems and more investment.

但我認為，其中一些事情取決於市場，我們過去曾討論過將 NAND 技術提升到可以在 AI 資料中心和一些企業 SSD 中發揮重要作用的程度的重要性。看起來這是需求較多、投資較多的領域之一。

So I think that it's a little too early for us to say. Like I say, we're two months beyond that view of $40 billion, and we think it still plays out over the next three, four, five years, over that period of time. And I think we're moving.

所以我認為現在說這個還為時過早。就像我說的，我們已經超越了 400 億美元的預期兩個月了，我們認為在未來三、四、五年內，這項預期仍將持續。我認為我們正在前進。

I think the most important for Lam is it's not just upgrades, but as we talked, it's also a lot of the new tools that are needed to enable those higher layer counts. So that's really, I think means we see both upgrades but also really SAM expansion and share gain opportunities as a result of those technology investments.

我認為對 Lam 來說最重要的不僅僅是升級，而且正如我們所說的，它還需要許多實現更高層數所需的新工具。所以，我認為這實際上意味著，由於這些技術投資，我們不僅看到了升級，也看到了 SAM 擴展和份額成長機會。

Maybe just a tangent off of that question is maybe as demand declines, you'll see increases to capacity coming offline, some more underutilization. In your conversations with customers, is that a linear relationship with how much capacity is taken offline and the desire to do more upgrades, a.k.a. like if you see more underutilization from your customers, do you think that they will be more inclined to do more upgrades? Or is this the amount of upgrade that you're expecting kind of not going to change depending on utilization?

也許與該問題相關的是，隨著需求下降，您會看到下線產能增加，利用率不足的情況增加。在您與客戶的對話中，這是否與下線容量和進行更多升級的願望之間存在線性關係，也就是說，如果您發現客戶的利用率不足，您是否認為他們會更傾向於進行更多升級？或者您期望的升級量不會根據利用率而改變？

Well, we've said that in the past, and I think in most instances, it has been true. Obviously, when customers have the tools offline, that is the most ideal time before they start those back up to perform the upgrades. Obviously, the last NAND downcycle was so severe that I think we saw the tool stay offline longer than we might have expected.

嗯，我們過去就說過這個，而且我認為在大多數情況下，這是正確的。顯然，當客戶的工具處於離線狀態時，這是他們重新啟動工具進行升級之前最理想的時間。顯然，上一次 NAND 衰退週期非常嚴重，我認為我們看到該工具離線的時間比我們預期的要長。

But I do believe that generally, those things kind of act countercyclical to each other. When you see utilization fall, the next upcycle will usually come up but a different technology nodes means upgrades will have occurred and Lam capture some of that revenue.

但我確實相信，一般來說，這些事物是相互逆週期作用的。當你看到利用率下降時，通常會出現下一個上升週期，但不同的技術節點意味著升級將會發生，而 Lam 將從中獲得部分收入。

Thanks, Tom. Operator, we're going to take one more question.

謝謝，湯姆。接線員，我們還要回答一個問題。

Tim Schulze-Melander, Redburn Atlantic.

梅蘭德 (Tim Schulze-Melander)，Redburn Atlantic。

Maybe the first one just on CSBG. You've talked about upgrades Reliantdown. Maybe you could just give us a little bit of color on the spares, just kind of how that was tracking sequentially, and any color you have utilization rates of your fleet? And then I have a quick follow-up.

也許是 CSBG 上第一個。您談到了 Reliantdown 的升級。也許您可以給我們一些關於備件的詳細信息，例如它是如何按順序跟踪的，以及您的車隊的利用率是多少？然後我有一個快速的跟進。

Listen, spares are doing well, right? I mean, chamber count grew last year. So the incremental opportunity to sell more spares is up. Utilization is trending favorably. So that drives fares to be doing reasonably well, Timm.

聽著，備件狀況良好，對嗎？我的意思是，去年商會數量增加。因此，銷售更多備件的增量機會已經增加。使用率呈良好趨勢。因此，這促使票價表現相當不錯，蒂姆。

Okay, that's great. And then maybe just on the NAND upgrade opportunity. Just as you look out maybe over a longer term, maybe one or two years, can you just maybe kind of break that up for us? Just kind of how does that split between upgrade sales and OE sales? Is it like pretty equal? Or is it skewed one way or the other over the next couple of years? Thank you.

好的，太好了。然後也許只是 NAND 升級機會。您可能著眼於更長遠的未來，也許一兩年，您能否為我們詳細分析？那麼升級銷售和 OE 銷售之間是如何劃分的呢？這是否相當平等？或者說，未來幾年內，這種趨勢會朝某個方向扭曲？謝謝。

Yeah. I think that as time progresses, I think you'll see it become more balanced. I mean, as we said, it's a combination of upgrades to the existing tools that are already there to be able to accomplish higher layer counts. And immediately, you need to also add additional data tools to provide the types of technologies we need to deliver higher layer counts.

是的。我認為隨著時間的推移，你會看到它變得更加平衡。我的意思是，正如我們所說的，它是對現有工具的升級組合，以便能夠實現更高的層數。而且，您還需要立即添加其他資料工具來提供我們所需的更高層數的技術類型。

And so already, it's a mix. But I think as you move forward, and I think one of the previous questions is eventually customers might even start developing new sites as they get better line of sight to stronger demand in the future, then the new equipment sales would kick in as well. So it's already a mix, and I think it will continue to be a mix for the next several years when we work through that $40 billion upgrade opportunity.

所以，它已經是一種混合了。但我認為隨著你的前進，我認為之前的一個問題是，最終客戶甚至可能會開始開發新的站點，因為他們可以更好地預見未來更強勁的需求，然後新設備的銷售也會開始。所以這已經是一種混合了，而且我認為，當我們利用 400 億美元的升級機會時，未來幾年它將繼續是一種混合。

Okay. Thanks, Tim. Operator, with that, we're going to complete the call. Thank you everybody for joining us today, and I'm sure we'll see a lot of you guys during the remainder of the quarter.

好的。謝謝，蒂姆。接線員，就這樣，我們的通話就完成了。感謝大家今天的加入我們，我相信在本季剩餘的時間裡我們會再次見到你們。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。