庫力索法 (KLIC) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Kulicke & Soffa's 2025 second-quarter earnings call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Joseph Elgindy, Senior Director, Investor Relations. Thank you, sir. You may begin.

大家好，歡迎參加 Kulicke & Soffa 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。現在我很高興介紹您的主持人，投資者關係高級總監 Joseph Elgindy。謝謝您，先生。你可以開始了。

Thank you. Welcome, everyone to Kulicke & Soffa's fiscal second-quarter 2025 conference call. Fusen Chen, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Lester Wong, Chief Financial Officer, are also joining on today's call.

謝謝。歡迎大家參加 Kulicke & Soffa 2025 財年第二季電話會議。陳福森，總裁兼執行長；以及財務長 Lester Wong 也將參加今天的電話會議。

Non-GAAP financial measures referenced today should be considered in addition to, not as a substitute for or in isolation from our GAAP financial information. GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliation tables are included within our latest earnings release and earnings presentation. Both are available at investor.kns.com along with prepared remarks for today's call.

今天引用的非 GAAP 財務指標應被視為對我們的 GAAP 財務資訊的補充，而不是替代或孤立。我們最新的收益報告和收益報告中包含了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 的對帳表。這兩份報告以及今天電話會議的準備好的發言稿均可在 investor.kns.com 上查閱。

In addition to historical statements, today's remarks will contain statements relating to future events and our future results. These statements are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause our actual results and financial condition to differ materially from the statements made today.

除了歷史陳述之外，今天的評論還將包含與未來事件和我們未來結果有關的陳述。這些聲明是 1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案所定義的前瞻性聲明，受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致我們的實際結果和財務狀況與今天的聲明有重大差異。

For a complete discussion of the risks associated with Kulicke & Soffa that could affect our future results and financial condition, please refer to our recent and upcoming SEC filings, specifically our latest Form 10-K as well as the 8-K filed last night.

有關可能影響我們未來業績和財務狀況的 Kulicke & Soffa 相關風險的完整討論，請參閱我們最近和即將提交的 SEC 文件，特別是我們最新的 10-K 表格以及昨晚提交的 8-K 表格。

With that said, I would now like to turn the call over to Fusen Chen for the business overview. Please go ahead, Fusen.

話雖如此，我現在想將電話轉給陳福森，請他概述一下業務狀況。請繼續，Fusen。

Good morning, everyone. Last month, we announced the intent to discontinue the Electronics Assembly, or EA, equipment business, subject to local regulatory approval. We acquired this business in 2015 and it is currently a component within the all other category.

大家早安。上個月，我們宣布了停止電子組裝（EA）設備業務的意圖，但需獲得當地監管部門的批准。我們於 2015 年收購了這項業務，目前它是所有其他類別的組成部分。

We intend to fully support and serve our customers with equipment purchase requirements over the coming quarters. We will also continue to retain EA equipment technology as well as the related aftermarket parts and service business to support the existing installed base and our customers' operational needs. We believe this decision, though difficult, was critically essential to ensure our underlying business are competitive and are properly aligned with beneficial long-term technology trends.

我們打算在未來幾季全力支援和服務我們的客戶的設備採購需求。我們也將繼續保留 EA 設備技術以及相關的售後零件和服務業務，以支援現有的安裝基礎和客戶的營運需求。我們認為，這項決定雖然困難，但對於確保我們的基礎業務具有競爭力並與長期有利的技術趨勢保持一致至關重要。

Looking ahead, we intend to prioritize development and further leverage our dominate ball, wedge, and thermo-compression positions, where we have demonstrated clear technology leadership to address fundamental assembly transition within high-volume, leading-edge, and the power semiconductor market.

展望未來，我們打算優先發展並進一步利用我們在球、楔和熱壓領域的主導地位，在這些領域，我們已展示出明顯的技術領導地位，以解決大批量、前沿和功率半導體市場中的基本組裝轉型問題。

Additionally, our APS business, which provide revenue consistency, as well as our emerging Advanced Dispense portfolio extend our technology leadership and provide additional growth paths throughout these evolving core-market opportunities. This restructuring effort is also intended to enhance our long-term financial, with anticipated improvement in both margin and through-cycle improvement.

此外，我們的 APS 業務可提供穩定的收入，而我們新興的 Advanced Dispense 產品組合則擴展了我們的技術領先地位，並在這些不斷發展的核心市場機會中提供了額外的成長途徑。此次重組努力還旨在增強我們的長期財務狀況，預計利潤率和整個週期的改善都會有所改善。

At a macro level, the ongoing trade situation has increased levels of uncertainty throughout global market and supply chain. This level of macro and industry uncertainty has created hesitation and a more defensive capacity plan approach, throughout our served market.

從宏觀層面來看，持續的貿易狀況增加了全球市場和供應鏈的不確定性。在我們服務的整個市場中，這種宏觀和行業不確定性導致了猶豫和更具防禦性的產能計劃方法。

Sequentially, this hesitation was most evident in the Southeast Asia automotive and industrial market, which had the effect of limiting the seasonal momentum previously anticipated for the June quarter. Interestingly, over the same period, we saw utilization improvement in other Asia regions.

隨後，這種猶豫在東南亞汽車和工業市場表現得最為明顯，從而限制了先前預期的六月季度季節性增長勢頭。有趣的是，在同一時期，我們看到亞洲其他地區的使用率有所提高。

While we are not immune from this macro near-term dynamics, semiconductor unit growth as well as the increased complexity of semiconductor packaging are expected to expand our served market. We remain confident in the industry's resilience and also remain confident that our global business, supply chain, and the development paths are best optimized as we look ahead.

雖然我們無法免受這種宏觀短期動態的影響，但半導體單位的成長以及半導體封裝複雜性的增加預計將擴大我們所服務的市場。我們對產業的韌性充滿信心，也對未來我們的全球業務、供應鏈和發展路徑得到最佳優化充滿信心。

Over the near-term, we intend to further strengthen our growth prospects with a focus on vertical wire, power semiconductor, advanced dispense, and thermo-compression, which I will discuss in more detail shortly. During the March quarter, the general semiconductor end market, supported by improving ball bonding utilization rates experienced a 38% sequential increase due to improved demand from ball, wedge, and TCB stemming from US and China.

短期內，我們打算進一步加強我們的成長前景，重點關注垂直線、功率半導體、先進分配和熱壓，我將在稍後詳細討論這些領域。在三月季度，由於美國和中國對球焊、楔焊和TCB的需求增加，在球焊利用率提高的推動下，通用半導體終端市場上季成長了38%。

In view of the changes on in the EA Equipment business, we decided it was appropriate to simplify our end market disclosure and consolidate LED within Automotive and Industrial starting in the current quarter, as well as within comparable period. This change is aligned with external semiconductor marketing forecasts where LED is generally a subcomponent of the industrial market.

鑑於電子電氣設備業務的變化，我們決定簡化終端市場揭露，並從本季開始以及在可比較期間將 LED 合併到汽車和工業領域，這是適當的。這種變化與外部半導體市場預測一致，其中 LED 通常是工業市場的一個子組成部分。

With that said, Automotive and Industrial was sequentially down in the March quarter, over the December quarter, largely due to the final Project W related LED sales which were recognized in the December quarters. Automotive and Industrial, excluding LED, was down approximately 7% sequentially, but was still up nearly 14% from the same period of last year due to ongoing demand improvement of our Asterion and Power-C solutions.

話雖如此，汽車和工業部門在 3 月份季度的銷售額比 12 月份季度環比下降，這主要是由於 12 月份季度確認的與 W 項目相關的最終 LED 銷售額。汽車和工業（不包括 LED）較上季下降約 7%，但由於我們的 Asterion 和 Power-C 解決方案需求持續改善，仍比去年同期成長近 14%。

Within Memory, softer NAND system demand was the primary driver for our sequential reduction in the March quarter. Today, our current memory exposure is centered on NAND, but we remain focused to diversify into dynamic memory through the fundamental advanced packaging transitions effecting HBM for leading-edge memory and also driving momentum for our emerging Vertical Wire solution for high-volume memory.

在記憶體領域，NAND 系統需求疲軟是導致我們 3 月季度季減的主要原因。今天，我們目前的記憶體業務集中在 NAND 上，但我們仍致力於透過影響尖端記憶體 HBM 的基本先進封裝轉換，實現動態記憶體多元化，並推動新興的大容量記憶體垂直線解決方案的發展勢頭。

Finally, within APS, we continue to enjoy a relatively stable base of parts, service and support revenue through this dynamic market environment. While there may be some fluctuation over the coming months, we anticipate overall installed base and the utilization trend will continue to improve, supporting a relatively stable level of APS revenue.

最後，在 APS 內部，透過這種充滿活力的市場環境，我們繼續享有相對穩定的零件、服務和支援收入基礎。雖然未來幾個月可能會出現一些波動，但我們預計整體安裝基數和利用率趨勢將繼續改善，從而支持相對穩定的 APS 收入水準。

At this point, we anticipate the majority of our business has gone through a long-term period of capacity digestion and remain very well positioned for the next set of ball, wedge, advanced dispense, and therno-compression opportunities. Within Ball Bonding, our ongoing pace of customer engagement as well as the new product development remain on track with our Vertical Wire solution, which continues to gain momentum.

此時，我們預計我們的大部分業務已經經歷了長期的產能消化期，並且為下一組球形、楔形、先進分配和熱壓縮機會做好了充分的準備。在球焊領域，我們持續的客戶參與步伐以及新產品開發與我們的垂直線解決方案保持同步，並繼續獲得發展動力。

Last month, we officially announced the launch of our latest Wafer-Level-Packaging solution, ATPremier MEM Plus, which is specially optimized for stacked DRAM opportunity. This high-potential new memory-packaging approach is driving significant interest with the leading customers, some of which are accelerating their transition and may initiate new stacked DRAM production by 2026. Additionally, this Vertical Wire capability is also compatible with non-memory, fan-out devices, which support high-volume general semiconductor applications.

上個月，我們正式宣布推出最新的晶圓級封裝解決方案 ATPremier MEM Plus，該解決方案專門針對堆疊 DRAM 機會進行了最佳化。這種極具潛力的新型記憶體封裝方法正在引起主要客戶的極大興趣，其中一些客戶正在加速轉型，並可能在 2026 年開始生產新型堆疊 DRAM。此外，這種垂直線功能還相容於非記憶體、扇出設備，支援大容量通用半導體應用。

As explained on prior calls, similar to leading-edge application, cost-sensitive wire bonded applications are also aggressively demanding new transistor-dense packaging solutions, and our Vertical Wire technology is very well positioned to effectively address both high-volume logic and memory transition.

正如先前的電話會議所解釋的那樣，與前緣應用類似，成本敏感的引線鍵合應用也積極要求新的電晶體密集封裝解決方案，而我們的垂直線技術非常適合有效解決大容量邏輯和記憶體轉換問題。

In addition to Vertical Wire, the pace of other Ball Bonding development initiatives remains on track. We continue to prepare for new solutions to this high-volume market over the coming quarters.

除了垂直焊線之外，其他球焊技術的發展步伐仍在按計劃進行。我們將繼續為未來幾季針對這個大容量市場提供新的解決方案做準備。

Next, within Wedge Bonding, the power semiconductor opportunity continue to demand higher-current, higher-reliability, and higher-efficiency devices. A few years ago, these power semiconductor applications were some of the most cost-sensitive and competitive semiconductor assembly market. The growth in electric vehicle and the sustainable energy, has caused these basic power-control applications to become increasingly complex, requiring better materials, more robust interconnect, and more advanced equipment.

其次，在楔形鍵合中，功率半導體機會繼續要求更高電流、更高可靠性和更有效率的設備。幾年前，這些功率半導體應用是成本最敏感、競爭最激烈的半導體組裝市場之一。電動車和永續能源的成長使得這些基本的電源控制應用變得越來越複雜，需要更好的材料、更強大的互連和更先進的設備。

In April, we proudly announced the launch of our newest SonotrodeTM-enabled pin welding system for power semiconductor applications. This new system, which leverages our leading Asterion platform, extend our market reach while enhancing alignment with the growing and evolving global demand for electric vehicle and sustainable energy. The use of pin within this market is rapidly growing, which support better inductance and better flexibility as they improve power monitoring and the sensing to support higher-efficiency applications.

四月，我們很自豪地宣布推出用於功率半導體應用的最新 SonotrodeTM 針焊系統。這個新系統利用我們領先的 Asterion 平台，擴大了我們的市場範圍，同時增強了對全球對電動車和永續能源日益增長的需求的適應性。該市場中引腳的使用正在快速增長，它們支援更好的電感和更好的靈活性，因為它們改善了電源監控和感測以支援更有效率的應用。

Additionally, within this emerging high-performance power-module market, there is an increase in new semiconductor materials, such as silicon carbide, but also an increase in the use of copper materials and interconnects. Copper interconnect are a core competency for K&S which we intend to fully leverage as this long-term market evolution continues.

此外，在這個新興的高性能功率模組市場中，碳化矽等新型半導體材料增加，而且銅材料和互連線的使用也有所增加。銅互連是 K&S 的核心競爭力，隨著長期的市場演變，我們打算充分利用這一優勢。

Next, within the Advanced Expense business, we continue to build out our portfolio of solution as well as our customer-facing engagement. We continue to grow our customer base and recently received an order from a high-volume US-based integrated device manufacturer. Additionally, our recently qualified solid-state battery opportunity has been performing well, and we anticipate a potential production ramp to begin over the coming quarters.

接下來，在高級費用業務中，我們將繼續建立我們的解決方案組合以及面向客戶的參與。我們的客戶群不斷擴大，最近收到了美國大型整合設備製造商的訂單。此外，我們最近獲得認證的固態電池機會表現良好，我們預計未來幾季將開始實現潛在的產量成長。

Over the coming years, we are also focused to expand our Advanced Dispense market presence. This effort will combine our unique dispense capability with our existing market-leading core-system technology.

在未來的幾年裡，我們也將致力於擴大我們在高階分配市場的佔有率。此項努力將把我們獨特的分配能力與我們現有的市場領先的核心系統技術結合起來。

Turning to Thermo-Compression. Our Advanced Solutions team continue to actively support logic and memory customers in production and development. We remain well positioned and are continuing to take share in advanced logic applications as the market transitions to next-generation chip-on-wafer and also wafer-on-substrate applications.

轉向熱壓縮。我們的先進解決方案團隊繼續積極支援邏輯和記憶體客戶的生產和開發。隨著市場向下一代晶圓上晶片和晶圓上基板應用轉型，我們仍保持著良好的地位，並將繼續在先進邏輯應用中佔據份額。

Larger and more complex multi-chip processor for data center and AI applications are expected to drive the next wave of leading-edge customer capacity. We have worked very closely with many customers over the recent years and remain well positioned for leading-edge but also higher-volume opportunities as mobility devices begin transitioning to chiplet and heterogeneous applications.

用於資料中心和人工智慧應用的更大、更複雜的多晶片處理器預計將推動下一波前沿客戶產能。近年來，我們與許多客戶密切合作，隨著行動裝置開始向小晶片和異質應用過渡，我們仍然處於領先地位，並且擁有更大批量的機會。

Finally, for TCB in memory, we continue to anticipate our unique fluxless software solution, which provide direct-copper, zero-die gap, and ultra-fine pitch capability, will be a key competitor for future HBM opportunities. Building on traction from the prior quarters, we expect to ship additional tool to a leading-memory customers toward the end of the fiscal year. As a reminder, our innovation in Thermo-Compression and Vertical Wire have unlocked new market access to logic and memory opportunities which our company was previously excluded from.

最後，對於記憶體中的 TCB，我們繼續預期我們獨特的無焊劑軟體解決方案（提供直接銅、零晶片間隙和超細間距功能）將成為未來 HBM 機會的主要競爭對手。基於前幾季的良好表現，我們預計將在本財年末向領先的記憶體客戶運送更多工具。提醒一下，我們在熱壓和垂直線方面的創新已經為我們公司以前被排除在外的邏輯和記憶體市場開闢了新的准入機會。

Today, as the world take the next step to transition single-die semiconductor package to multi-die and heterogeneous and chiplet packaging format. Thermo-Compression is rapidly becoming the incumbent technology for high-performance application, while our Vertical Wire solution are increasingly well positioned to address a wide portion of the high-volume market over the long-term.

如今，世界正邁出新的一步，從單晶片半導體封裝轉向多晶片、異構和小晶片封裝格式。熱壓技術正迅速成為高效能應用的現有技術，而我們的垂直線解決方案越來越適合長期滿足大批量市場的廣泛需求。

As a reminder, we remain the only Fluxless TCB supplier who has been qualified for high volume manufacturing with some of the world’s most advanced semiconductor company, and we are nearly fully booked for fiscal 2025. More broadly, we have nearly 120 system installed base across 10 different highly-engaged customers. This helps to demonstrate our track record for winning, as this installed base captures a wider portion of the market than any of our competitors have been able to address.

提醒一下，我們仍然是唯一一家有資格與世界上一些最先進的半導體公司進行大批量生產的無助焊劑 TCB 供應商，並且我們 2025 財年的訂單幾乎已滿。更廣泛地說，我們在 10 個不同的高度參與的客戶中擁有近 120 個系統安裝基礎。這有助於證明我們的成功記錄，因為這個安裝基礎佔據了比我們的任何競爭對手所能佔據的更廣泛的市場份額。

In closing, we have worked hard to ensure our business is best aligned with critical technology change, such as vertical wire in memory, TCB in leading-edge logic, and our increasingly capable assembly solution in Power Semiconductor. Additionally, our growing Advanced Dispense portfolio of solution increase our potential across all of these long-term technology transitions.

最後，我們努力確保我們的業務與關鍵技術變革保持最佳同步，例如記憶體中的垂直線、前沿邏輯中的 TCB 以及功率半導體中功能日益強大的組裝解決方案。此外，我們不斷成長的 Advanced Dispense 解決方案組合提高了我們在所有這些長期技術轉型中的潛力。

While recent core-market utilization trends are promising, we remain in an unprecedented state of macro uncertainty, although we remain confident in our technology and the market positions and are prepared to overcome near-term challenges. At this point, our cost structures, existing product portfolio, and the through-cycle performance are optimized, and we will continue to enable fundamental technology change throughout our served market. As we have done for seven decades, we will continue to closely support our customers and emerge a stronger, more profitable, and more growth-centric company.

雖然最近核心市場利用率趨勢令人鼓舞，但我們仍然處於前所未有的宏觀不確定狀態，儘管我們對我們的技術和市場地位仍然充滿信心，並準備好克服近期的挑戰。此時，我們的成本結構、現有產品組合和整個週期的性能都得到了優化，我們將繼續在我們服務的市場中推動根本性的技術變革。正如我們七十年來所做的那樣，我們將繼續密切支持我們的客戶，成為一家更強大、更有利可圖、更注重成長的公司。

I will now turn the call over to Lester to cover the financial overview. Lester?

現在我將把電話轉給萊斯特來介紹財務概況。萊斯特？

Thank you, Fusen. My remarks today will refer to GAAP results unless noted. I would first like to provide some additional details regarding our intent to discontinue the EA equipment business. As Fusen explained, this was a difficult but necessary step to ensure our overall business remain competitive, aligned with long-term technology trends and it is optimized for through-cycle performance.

謝謝你，Fusen。除非另有說明，我今天的發言將參考 GAAP 結果。首先，我想提供一些有關我們停止 EA 設備業務的意圖的額外細節。正如 Fusen 所解釋的那樣，這是一個困難但必要的步驟，以確保我們的整體業務保持競爭力，與長期技術趨勢保持一致，並針對整個週期的性能進行最佳化。

We remain closely engaged with all key stakeholders as we plan for this intended wind down. We are currently seeking feedback regarding customers' orders and remain in close discussions with local stakeholders.

在規劃逐步退出時，我們仍與所有主要利害關係人保持密切聯繫。我們目前正在尋求有關客戶訂單的回饋，並與當地利害關係人保持密切討論。

During the March quarter, we accounted for the majority of wind-down related expenses, which represented total EA-related charges of $86.6 million. These charges were primarily related to inventory write-down, supply chain, asset impairment, and restructuring-related charges. Dependent on local stakeholder feedback and in alignment with our March 31 disclosure, we anticipate residual non-GAAP expenses to be below $15 million and be accrued for in the first fiscal half of 2026.

在三月季度，我們承擔了大部分與清算相關的費用，這些費用總計為 8,660 萬美元。這些費用主要與庫存減記、供應鏈、資產減損和重組相關費用有關。根據當地利害關係人的回饋並與我們 3 月 31 日的揭露保持一致，我們預計剩餘非 GAAP 費用將低於 1500 萬美元，並將在 2026 財年上半年計提。

Turning to the March quarter financial results. We booked revenue of $162 million and gross margins of 24.9%, which included EA-related inventory and supply chain charges of $38.6 million. Total operating expenses came in at $125.1 million, which included restructuring charges of $8.8 million and impairment charges of $39.8 million. Excluding these charges, operating expenses would have been $76.5 million.

談到三月季度的財務表現。我們實現了 1.62 億美元的收入和 24.9% 的毛利率，其中包括 3,860 萬美元的 EA 相關庫存和供應鏈費用。總營運費用為 1.251 億美元，其中包括 880 萬美元的重組費用和 3,980 萬美元的減損費用。除去這些費用，營運費用將達到 7,650 萬美元。

Tax expense came in at $5.4 million related to our mix of profit and loss across entities during the quarter. We continue to anticipate our effective tax rate will remain above 20% over the coming year. We completed our previous and also initiated our latest repurchase program with a $300 million authorization during our first fiscal quarter of 2025.

本季度，與我們各實體的損益組合相關的稅金為 540 萬美元。我們繼續預計未來一年我們的有效稅率將保持在 20% 以上。我們在 2025 財年第一季完成了先前的回購計劃，並啟動了最新的回購計劃，授權金額為 3 億美元。

During the second fiscal quarter, we repurchased over 500,000 shares for $21.3 million. While we do not anticipate current tariff announcements to have a direct impact on our ability to manufacture and sell our products and services to our global base of customers, unique geopolitical and trade dynamics have created near-term order hesitation in certain capital equipment markets.

在第二財政季度，我們以 2,130 萬美元回購了超過 50 萬股股票。雖然我們預計目前的關稅公告不會對我們向全球客戶製造和銷售產品和服務的能力產生直接影響，但獨特的地緣政治和貿易動態已導致某些資本設備市場近期出現訂單猶豫。

Looking into the June quarter, sequential order activity decreased in Southeast Asia, while order activity increased in China and Taiwan, which was aligned with our utilization data. We have also begun to see global customers begin reallocating equipment across manufacturing sites, which highlights our industry's ability to flex around trade dynamics.

展望六月季度，東南亞的訂單活動較上季下降，而中國大陸和台灣的訂單活動則有所增加，這與我們的使用率數據一致。我們也開始看到全球客戶開始在各個製造基地重新分配設備，凸顯了我們產業根據貿易動態靈活調整的能力。

With that said, we anticipate semiconductor unit growth will continue to improve through fiscal 2025. While some customers may delay capital expenditures until critically necessary, we expect continued capacity digestion supported by improving utilization rates with Ball and Wedge bonder to continue over the near term.

話雖如此，我們預計到 2025 財年半導體單位成長將持續改善。雖然有些客戶可能會將資本支出推遲到迫切需要的時候，但我們預計，在球焊機和楔焊機利用率提高的支持下，短期內產能消化將繼續進行。

Looking into the June quarter, we announced a revenue outlook of $145 million, plus or minus $10 million, with gross margins of 46.5%. We anticipate non-GAAP operating expenses to be $68 million plus or minus 2%, a GAAP EPS loss of $0.09, and a non-GAAP EPS gain of $0.05 per share. Although the near-term market dynamics are challenging, we continue to anticipate an eventual return to incremental capacity growth in core Ball and Wedge bonding markets and continue to see ongoing capacity digestion and field utilization improvements.

展望 6 月季度，我們宣布營收預期為 1.45 億美元（上下浮動 1,000 萬美元），毛利率為 46.5%。我們預計非 GAAP 營運費用為 6,800 萬美元，上下浮動 2%，GAAP EPS 虧損 0.09 美元，非 GAAP EPS 收益 0.05 美元。儘管近期市場動態充滿挑戰，但我們仍預期核心球焊和楔焊市場最終將恢復增量產能成長，並將繼續看到產能消化和現場利用率的提高。

Incremental opportunities in Vertical Wire, Advanced Dispense, and Thermo-Compression are in addition to this anticipated improvement. As we remain focused on these strategic opportunities, we are well prepared to navigate near-term macro level uncertainty. This concludes our prepared comments.

除了預期的改進之外，垂直線、進階分配和熱壓縮方面也出現了漸進機會。由於我們始終關注這些策略機遇，我們已做好充分準備來應對近期宏觀層面的不確定性。我們的準備評論到此結束。

Operator, please open the call for questions.

接線員，請打開電話詢問。

(Operator Instructions) Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

（操作員指示） Krish Sankar，TD Cowen。

I have three questions. First one, Fusen. Just kind of curious, can you give some color on June, what are the dynamics? Is it predominantly general semi and auto industrial, that's going to be down quite a bit? And how to think about it beyond June. I understand a lot of moving parts, but any color you can give beyond June will also be helpful?

我有三個問題。第一個，Fusen。只是有點好奇，能否透露六月的情況，動態是怎麼樣的？它主要是通用半工業和汽車工業嗎？這些產業的產量會下降很多嗎？以及六月之後該如何思考這個問題。我了解很多活動部件，但是您在六月之後提供的任何顏色也會有幫助嗎？

Okay. So Krish, we have a Q3 slowdown. And this slowdown is the most pronounced and evidenced in our Southeast Asia region. I'll give you an example. The Q3 Southeast Asia slowed down accounted for the majority of our total Q2 to Q3 weakness. So, I'll give you a number. Our Q2 revenue is $162 million and the Q3 guidance is $145 million. The difference of these two number of majority actually is a weakness from Southeast Asia.

好的。Krish，我們第三季的業務放緩了。這種放緩在我們東南亞地區最為明顯。我給你舉個例子。第三季東南亞經濟放緩是我們第二季至第三季整體疲軟的主要原因。那麼，我給你一個數字。我們第二季的營收為 1.62 億美元，第三季的預期營收為 1.45 億美元。這兩個多數數字的差異其實是東南亞的一個弱點。

So therefore, it is really our belief this near-term slowdown was due to the concern regarding the potential and unknown tariff impact for auto and industrial industry from our customers. So I think in the script, we mentioned while we see the weaker outlook for the Southeast Asia, in the meantime, we also see the utilization rate improve in Taiwan, China and other regions. And with the utilization rate actually is at or close to triggering broader capacity addition.

因此，我們確實相信，近期的放緩是由於客戶擔心關稅對汽車和工業行業的潛在和未知的影響。因此，我認為在腳本中我們提到，雖然我們看到東南亞的前景較弱，但同時，我們也看到台灣、中國和其他地區的利用率有所提高。而且利用率實際上已經達到或接近觸發更大範圍產能增加的水平。

So we see positive, but we also have actually a very big actually slowdown in Southeast Asia. We believe it's auto industry related and it's because of unknown tariff impact. People hesitate to build capacity just for the industry. So yes, the number is a little bit bigger. And the reason, I think, is because of we have a bigger, larger presence, auto exposure. And also, our manufacturing concept is flexible manufacturing cycle. And we're working with a customer in upturn and downturn with a shorter cycle time. So I think these two are together. I hope I explained your questions.

因此，我們看到了積極的一面，但實際上東南亞的經濟也出現了非常大的放緩。我們認為這與汽車行業有關，並且是由於未知的關稅影響。人們對於單純為了工業而建設產能猶豫不決。是的，這個數字確實有點大。我認為，原因是我們擁有更大、更廣的影響力和自動曝光能力。而我們的製造理念是靈活的製造週期。而且，我們正在以更短的周期時間與處於經濟繁榮和低迷時期的客戶合作。所以我認為這兩個是在一起的。我希望我解釋了你的問題。

That's very helpful, Fusen. Just to follow up on just any view beyond June quarter? Or is it too hard to say today.

這非常有幫助，Fusen。只是為了跟進六月季度之後的任何觀點嗎？還是今天很難說。

Yes. So June quarter, really our belief. The Q4 June quarter is Q3, like Q4. We believe this will be better. It's -- the feedback from customers and also some of the weakness in Q3 will be revenued in Q4. And we -- hopefully, this can be a short-term phenomenon. And it's also supported by utilization rate.

是的。所以六月季度確實是我們的信念。六月季度的第四季與第四季一樣，都是第三季。我們相信情況會更好。這是來自客戶的反饋以及第三季度的一些弱點將在第四季度得到體現。我們希望這只是一個短期現象。並且它也得到了利用率的支持。

Actually, in some regions, actually already the number can trigger capacity buy. So we think Q4 will be better, but how much better actually is also depend on macro and some clarity with the tariff. If we have better clarity, I think we should have sequentially up for Q3.

實際上，在某些地區，這個數字實際上已經可以觸發產能購買。因此，我們認為第四季會更好，但實際上好多少還取決於宏觀因素和關稅的明確性。如果我們有更清晰的認識，我認為我們應該在第三季取得連續成長。

Got it. And then just to follow up on TCB. Your TCB exposure is predominantly logic, hardly anything in memory. Can you give a color on how it's progressing? I also noticed that your European competitor last week announced five new orders for TCB chip to wafer. So I'm kind of curious lay of the land. And it if you can talk about TCB, your TCB exposure today and probably see revolving in memory, if you have a shot? Thank you.

知道了。然後只是跟進 TCB。您的 TCB 曝光主要是邏輯，幾乎沒有任何記憶。能具體說明一下進度嗎？我還注意到，你們的歐洲競爭對手上周宣布了五份新的TCB晶片到晶圓訂單。所以我對這裡的地形有點好奇。如果您可以談論 TCB，您今天的 TCB 曝光情況以及可能在記憶中看到的旋轉，您是否有機會？謝謝。

Okay, Krish. Practically, our first revenue for the TCB was in 2020, right? So although we don't want to say it's a quite large, but I think we made a good progress with a high growth rate. And we actually focus with the logic first. And we actually are confident at this moment we can grow in both IDM and also OSAT also in the foundry side for logic.

好的，克里什。實際上，我們 TCB 的第一筆收入是在 2020 年，對嗎？因此，儘管我們不想說這是一個相當大的數字，但我認為我們取得了良好的進展，成長率很高。我們實際上首先關注的是邏輯。事實上，我們現在有信心，我們可以在 IDM 和 OSAT 以及邏輯代工方面實現成長。

And this year, we put a lot of effort in the memory. We expect to ship additional system by end of the month -- end of the year. And we won't say this easy, but I think we're confident on our technology, and I hope we can have some results in 2026. So I think to answer your question, sequentially, we got to focus in actually some segment. And from now, I think it's a good time for us to focus on HBM.

而今年，我們在記憶上也投入了許多心血。我們預計在本月底至年底前交付更多系統。我們不會輕易說出來，但我認為我們對我們的技術很有信心，我希望我們能在 2026 年取得一些成果。所以我認為要回答你的問題，我們必須依次關注某個部分。從現在開始，我認為是我們專注於 HBM 的好時機。

Tom Diffely, D.A. Davidson.

湯姆·迪菲利（Tom Diffely），地方檢察官戴維森。

I was curious, what was the revenue run rate of the EA business that you're exiting? Or any kind of metrics around the size and profitability would be very helpful?

我很好奇，您退出的 EA 業務的收入運行率是多少？或者任何有關規模和獲利能力的指標都會很有幫助嗎？

Tom, it's Lester. So based on the recent past, the EA revenue was about $25 million to $30 million a year. Gross profit is on $7 million to $11 million, and the operating expense is about $20 million to $25 million.

湯姆，我是萊斯特。因此，根據最近的情況，EA 每年的收入約為 2500 萬至 3000 萬美元。毛利在700萬至1100萬美元之間，營業費用約為2000萬至2500萬美元。

Great. It's very helpful. And Lester, did you say that there would be a $15 million per quarter charge through the first half of '26?

偉大的。這非常有幫助。萊斯特，您是否說過 26 年上半年每季的費用將達到 1500 萬美元？

No, Tom, what we said is also consistent with the disclosure on March 31. I said that after this -- all the write-down this quarter, the $86 million. We think it will be less than $15 million for the rest of the shutdown, and that will probably be a little bit in the next two quarters and then more in the first half of FY26. Subject to our discussions with local stakeholders, we believe that the business other than to support existing customers and warranty and service should be done by the first half of FY26.

不，湯姆，我們所說的話也與 3 月 31 日披露的內容一致。我說過，在此之後──本季全部減記 8,600 萬美元。我們認為，剩餘的停工期所需費用將少於 1500 萬美元，並且可能在接下來的兩個季度中花費一點，然後在 2026 財年上半年花費更多。根據我們與當地利害關係人的討論，我們認為除了支援現有客戶和保固及服務之外的業務應該在 26 財年上半年完成。

Great. And then maybe just a quick question on the PowerSemi side. What are the dynamics you're seeing on the power front?

偉大的。然後也許只是關於 PowerSemi 方面的一個快速問題。您在電力方面看到了哪些動態？

Well, I think the power is going to grow rapidly in terms of volume. And there was a lot of European company actually invest on it. But recently, I think China actually also gained some market shares. So we are very happy. We still have a very high market shares in PowerSemi. And there's a transition to the PowerSemi to be more effective with higher power, more cost effective.

嗯，我認為從數量上來說，力量將會迅速增長。而且確實有許多歐洲公司對其進行了投資。但最近，我認為中國實際上也獲得了一些市場份額。所以我們很高興。我們在PowerSemi仍然擁有很高的市佔率。並且正在向 PowerSemi 轉型，以實現更高的功率和更高的成本效益。

So we have two actually new product. One is (inaudible). I actually discuss in my script. And this is for (inaudible). The other one, actually, we call it AVALINE, (inaudible). So we actually announced these two new products. We believe it's going to be an important product start to contribute revenue for us in 2026.

所以我們其實有兩種新產品。一個是（聽不清楚）。我實際上在我的劇本中討論過。這是為了（聽不清楚）。另一個，實際上，我們稱之為 AVALINE，（聽不清楚）。所以我們實際上發布了這兩款新產品。我們相信它將成為 2026 年為我們貢獻收入的重要產品。

Charles Schwab, Needham & Co.

嘉信理財，尼德漢姆公司

Maybe Fusen, the first question is about the market dynamics. I wonder if you can further unpack a little bit more. China order activity is up. Southeast Asia is down. That's understandable.

也許 Fusen，第一個問題是關於市場動態。我想知道您是否可以進一步解釋一下。中國訂單活動上升。東南亞陷入低迷。這是可以理解的。

But it's a little bit interesting to hear that the Taiwan is also up a little bit. In terms of ordering activity, you would assume Taiwan is subject to the same tariff dynamics as Southeast Asia. Why is there a little bit of bifurcation between those two regions? Is it Southeast Asia more impact on auto industrial side, Taiwan more on the general semi side? Or what's the reason, yeah?

但聽說台灣也漲了一點，有點有趣。就訂購活動而言，你會認為台灣受到與東南亞相同的關稅動態的影響。為什麼這兩個區域之間會有一點分歧？東南亞在汽車工業方面的影響更大，而台灣在通用半導體方面的影響更大嗎？或者說原因是什麼呢？

Okay. So let me explain Southeast Asia first. Southeast Asia, we believe actually utilization rate is still not high enough. I mentioned about Taiwan and China actually is a utilization rate is actually high and potentially can trigger capacity. But actually, we didn't see that yet, maybe it's because of the holdback. People for the unknown period of time, they can long actually utilization rate higher than even slightly higher than 80, right?

好的。那麼讓我先解釋一下東南亞。東南亞，我們認為實際上利用率仍然不夠高。我提到台灣和中國的利用率實際上很高，並且有可能激發產能。但實際上，我們還沒有看到這一點，也許是因為存在阻礙。人們對於未知的時期，他們的利用率究竟能高出甚至略高於80%多久呢，對吧？

So -- but Southeast Asia, I think utilization rate is below that. And as you know, the tariff impact to auto is a big deal. And Southeast Asia actually have a lot of actually European investment and also OSAT and create a big base for auto capacity. So -- and the Southeast Asia -- the slowdown actually account for almost a majority those slow down sequentially from Q2 to Q3. I hope I answered your questions.

所以——但我認為東南亞的利用率低於這個水準。正如你所知，關稅對汽車的影響很大。東南亞實際上擁有大量歐洲投資和 OSAT，為汽車產能創造了巨大的基礎。因此，東南亞的經濟放緩實際上佔了第二季至第三季連續放緩的絕大部分。我希望我回答了你的問題。

Yeah, that's very, very, very interesting color. Fusen, maybe another question about fluxes TCB. I think in your prepared remarks, there are some new languages there. you are saying fluxes TCB at least for fiscal '25, it's fully booked. I wonder if you can provide some color what that means because I don't think your fluxless PCB revenue forecast was that aggressive.

是的，那顏色非常非常非常有趣。Fusen，也許還有一個關於助焊劑 TCB 的問題。我認為在您準備好的發言中，有一些新的語言。您是說至少在 25 財年 TCB 的通量已經滿了。我想知道您是否可以提供一些細節來解釋這意味著什麼，因為我認為您對無焊接劑 PCB 收入的預測並不是那麼激進。

It was -- I believe you were guiding to like 40% to 50% year-on-year growth. When you say to full book, do you mean it's -- even it's actually a little bit supply constrained at this point? Or --

是的——我相信您預測的同比增長率是 40% 到 50%。當您說已滿時，您的意思是——實際上目前供應有點受限嗎？或者--

Actually, I think it's really a limit in our capacity. We have some capacity in US. And right now, we move to in Asia, and we intend to actually increase capacity. So I probably can say this a little bit better. I think right now, we are capacity constrained right now. And we actually will create more capacity is undergoing.

事實上，我認為這確實是我們能力的極限。我們在美國有一定的產能。現在，我們轉向亞洲，並打算實際增加產能。所以我可能可以說得更好一些。我認為現在我們的產能受到限制。我們實際上將創造更多的產能。

So is the 40% to 50% year on year growth, you think you can still reach that target for -- yeah?

那麼，40% 到 50% 的年成長率，您認為您仍然可以達到這個目標嗎？

So for example, I think we actually -- right now, to give you an example, maybe a capacity, we -- actually -- we just start in 2020, right? 2020, we actually have a capacity target to reach about 60 system per year, right? So this is the incremental capacity we are undergoing to increase.

舉個例子，我認為我們實際上 - 現在，舉個例子，也許是一個容量，我們 - 實際上 - 我們只是在 2020 年才開始，對吧？到 2020 年，我們實際上有一個容量目標，即每年達到約 60 個系統，對嗎？這就是我們正在增加的增量容量。

Got it. Maybe last one. Any update on the leading foundry. I believe you shipped a dual head system already. Any expectation, repeat orders and the timing of it?

知道了。也許是最後一個。有關領先代工廠的任何最新消息。我相信您已經發貨了雙頭系統。有什麼期望、重複訂單和時間安排嗎？

Okay. So our system actually is a long in high-volume production and also multiple systems and also new customer qualification. This year, our TCB only, we expect about $70 million. Next year, we actually expect probably $100 million or above $100 million. So the difference of $26 million and $25 million, part of that actually is growth of foundry, right? But as we quantify more customers and more devices, I think we will have additional upside on top of that.

好的。因此，我們的系統實際上是一個長期的大量生產系統，並且具有多種系統以及新客戶資格。今年，光是我們的 TCB 預計就約為 7,000 萬美元。明年，我們實際上預計收入可能達到 1 億美元或超過 1 億美元。那麼 2600 萬美元和 2500 萬美元的差額，其中一部分實際上是代工廠的成長，對嗎？但隨著我們量化更多的客戶和更多的設備，我認為我們將在此基礎上獲得額外的優勢。

(Operator Instructions) Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

（操作員指示） Craig Ellis，B. Riley Securities。

I wanted to start going back to some of the utilization increases you're seeing in China and Taiwan and just try to understand them in a little bit more detail. We've seen pretty visible signs that certain supply chains, PCs since February, March have been tracking well above seasonal. Smartphone seem to be doing that early in 2Q.

我想回顧一下中國大陸和台灣地區利用率的成長情況，並嘗試更詳細地了解它們。我們已經看到相當明顯的跡象表明，自 2 月和 3 月以來，某些供應鏈和個人電腦的運作情況一直遠高於季節性。智慧型手機似乎在第二季初就做到了這一點。

So the question is if that is happening, and it seems like it's happening on build-aheads, given tariff impacts, is there potential that that related demand in the second half of the fiscal fourth quarter or in the fiscal first quarter would be below seasonal because we've already had the utilization benefit early in the year as companies try to best operationalize to mitigate tariff impacts?

所以問題是，如果這種情況正在發生，而且似乎正在提前發生，考慮到關稅的影響，是否有可能在第四財季下半年或第一財季的相關需求低於季節性，因為我們已經在今年年初獲得了利用效益，因為公司試圖最好地運營以減輕關稅的影響？

Craig, it's Lester. No, we don't think so. I mean utilization rate, you're right, as Fusen said, is quite high in China and Taiwan and also in general semi. But what I think as we indicated on the call is in a normal cycle at these utilization rates, people should start doing capacity buys. But we're not really seeing that.

克雷格，我是萊斯特。不，我們不這麼認為。我的意思是利用率，正如 Fusen 所說，中國大陸、台灣以及一般半導體產業的使用率都相當高。但我認為，正如我們在電話會議上指出的那樣，在這樣的利用率下，人們應該開始購買產能。但我們實際上並沒有看到這一點。

And I think -- the reason for that is, again, there's a lot of cautiousness among our customers. They want to see how this tariff thing kind of plays out. So we don't think that there's -- that it's going to -- the utilization rate is going to start falling. We think it's already remaining at this level. And I think without the tariff uncertainty, we believe that China, Taiwan, North America, and Europe, I think the revenues will be much higher in Q3, and that's why originally, we believe that the second half of the year historically has always been better than the first half.

我認為——原因在於我們的客戶非常謹慎。他們想看看關稅問題將如何發展。因此，我們認為利用率不會開始下降。我們認為它已經保持在這個水平。我認為，如果沒有關稅的不確定性，我們相信中國、台灣、北美和歐洲的第三季收入將會高得多，這就是為什麼我們最初認為下半年的表現歷來都比上半年好。

I think this is a really been affected by the global trade dynamics as well as the tariffs. I think as we get more clarity on the tariffs, I think then people will start making purchases. I think right now, people are doing it just if it's critical necessity. So I think also, as Fusen said in the earlier reply, people are running at a much higher utilization than they normally would. So we don't think actually it will fall off in Q4 and Q1.

我認為這確實受到了全球貿易動態以及關稅的影響。我認為，隨著我們對關稅的了解越來越清楚，人們就會開始購買。我認為現在人們只有在迫切需要時才會這麼做。因此，我認為，正如 Fusen 在先前的回覆中所說，人們的利用率比平常高得多。因此，我們認為它實際上不會在第四季度和第一季下降。

And then the second question is more longer term. So interesting ambition to move into the DRAM, HBM market, and LPDDR market in fiscal '26. The question is, as we think about the memory business now, which is very NAND-centric, how material could DRAM be and fiscal '26 and '27 relative to the business that you currently have? And how broad would you expect your exposure to be across the memory supplier base?

第二個問題是一個更長期的問題。因此，在 26 財年進軍 DRAM、HBM 市場和 LPDDR 市場是一個有趣的目標。問題是，當我們考慮現在以 NAND 為中心的記憶體業務時，DRAM 相對於您目前的業務在 26 財年和 27 財年會有多大作用？您期望您在記憶體供應商群體中的曝光度有多廣？

So I think on NAND, we have very high market shares. HBM, we actually put a lot of effort. And in the meantime, there's also many, many competitors over there. So we will see how we will do. But I think we work closely actually with one, but also with others.

所以我認為在 NAND 方面，我們擁有非常高的市場份額。HBM，我們其實付出了很多努力。同時，那裡也有很多競爭對手。因此我們將看看我們能做得如何。但我認為我們實際上與其中一個公司密切合作，同時也與其他公司密切合作。

But one actually is a focus. So in terms of DRAM stack and die, we actually see this wire is going to be very important for the industry in both the logic and memory. The first customer, we see it's going to go to production this for respective ramp is going to be in the first half of 2026, right?

但其實其中一個是焦點。因此，就 DRAM 堆疊和晶片而言，我們實際上看到這種線路對於邏輯和記憶體產業都非常重要。我們看到第一位客戶將在 2026 年上半年投入生產，對嗎？

So -- and not only -- almost every memory customer is working with us and including IBM. So next year will be a transition year. And we probably can give you more update about the order, maybe years ago to production for the first half and we will see the order, maybe our fiscal 2026, maybe Q1 or Q2. So we believe the Vertical Wire will take off and there will be many customers going to work on this for the first product.

因此——不僅如此——幾乎每個記憶體客戶都在與我們合作，包括 IBM。因此明年將是一個過渡年。我們或許可以向您提供有關訂單的更多更新信息，也許是幾年前的訂單，也許是上半年的生產訂單，我們會看到訂單，也許是我們的 2026 財年，也許是第一季度或第二季度。因此，我們相信 Vertical Wire 將會大受歡迎，並且會有許多客戶選擇使用它來開發第一款產品。

First product is going to be DDR, is going to have a capability to reduce the form factor above 30% and this is going to be on mobile. But this is only a first application, we believe Vertical Wire is going to find a home for many other applications in the future.

第一款產品將是 DDR，能夠將尺寸縮小 30% 以上，並將應用於行動裝置。但這只是第一個應用，我們相信 Vertical Wire 將來會在許多其他應用中找到用武之地。

That's a significant form factor reduction, Fusen and thanks for all the color. You too, Lester.

這是一個顯著的尺寸縮減，Fusen，感謝你提供的所有顏色。你也是，萊斯特。

Dave Duley, Steelhead Securities.

Steelhead Securities 的 Dave Duley。

Yeah. Just a couple of clarifications. You talked about the utilization rates in Taiwan and China being elevated. Could you just give us what those percentages are at this point? And then also a bit of a housekeeping question. What is your IC unit volume assumption for calendar 2025 and 2026, if you have them?

是的。只需澄清幾點。您談到台灣和中國的利用率正在提高。您能告訴我們目前這些百分比是多少嗎？然後還有一些日常問題。如果有的話，您對 2025 年和 2026 年 IC 單位體積的假設是什麼？

Dave, utilization -- this is Lester. Utilization in China is over 80%. In fact, it's almost in the mid-80s. In Taiwan is just touching 80% or so. And semi revenue growth, we still expect about 10%, a little greater than 10%.

戴夫，利用率——這是萊斯特。中國的利用率達80%以上。事實上，現在已經快到 80 年代中期了。台灣才剛好達到80%左右。對於半收入成長，我們仍然預計在 10% 左右，略高於 10%。

In calendar '25.

在日曆 '25 中。

Yes.

是的。

Okay. And then as far as the HBM opportunity goes, I think you've made it clear you're working with one specific customer here. And is it would -- is it fair to assume that HBM or HBM 4E is the cut in point? Or usually, it's with a new product -- maybe just explain to us what new product you think you'll get cut in at?

好的。就 HBM 機會而言，我想您已經明確表示您正在與特定客戶合作。並且可以－假設 HBM 或 HBM 4E 是切入點是否公平？或者通常，它是一種新產品——也許只是向我們解釋一下您認為您會在哪種新產品上有所斬獲？

Well, right now, it's -- high volume is a 3E. So we expect will be our future generation. Yeah, more specific, I think from HBM4.

嗯，現在，它的高容量是 3E。我們對下一代的期望也是如此。是的，更具體，我認為是來自 HBM4。

So HBM4 would be the target point to try to incorporate yourself into the market, so to speak?

所以可以說 HBM4 是嘗試融入市場的目標點嗎？

Yeah, that's correct.

是的，沒錯。

Okay. And final question from me is you've talked about, I guess, demand hesitation driven by trade policies and tariffs. But could you just talk about any impacts that you might have? I assume that tariffs -- that you can ship from Asian facilities into China, so there won't be a major tariff impact from doing that? And then maybe just talk about if there are any higher costs from input costs into your products from tariffs?

好的。我的最後一個問題是，您談到了貿易政策和關稅導致的需求猶豫。但您能談談您可能會產生的影響嗎？我認為關稅——您可以從亞洲工廠運送到中國，所以這樣做不會對關稅產生重大影響？然後也許只是談論關稅是否會增加產品的投入成本？

Yeah. So Dave, you know we manufacture our capital equipment here in Singapore. So shipping it into China will not trigger any tariffs because the tariffs right now from China is aimed towards the United States on reciprocal basis, right? So we don't think there's any direct impact for us.

是的。戴夫，你知道我們在新加坡製造我們的資本設備。因此，將其運往中國不會觸發任何關稅，因為目前中國對美國徵收的關稅是互惠的，對嗎？因此我們認為這不會對我們造成任何直接影響。

As we indicated, the impact is more on an indirect basis as our customers and their customers are right now a little bit uncertain about how all this is going to play out. So therefore, they are much more conservative in their supply chain, right? So that's I think what we've been talking about earlier. As far as cost is concerned, I think there will be -- again, this may not be a direct cost, but there's always going to be indirect costs. Tariffs are going to -- it costs everybody money, right? So I think it's across the board.

正如我們所指出的，影響更多的是間接的，因為我們的客戶和他們的客戶現在有點不確定這一切將如何發展。因此，他們在供應鏈方面更加保守，對嗎？我認為這就是我們之前談論的內容。就成本而言，我認為會有——再說一次，這可能不是直接成本，但總是會有間接成本。關稅會讓每個人損失錢，對吧？所以我認為這是全面的。

Okay. And one final clarification is you talked about the customer hesitation in Southeast Asia. And I guess your kind of suggesting that, that's an industrial automotive in market driven. And then I think you even mentioned it was European customers. Is that the really way to think about it as European auto and industrial customers are the main customers or the food chain that is in hesitation, so to speak?

好的。最後需要澄清的是，您談到了東南亞客戶的猶豫。我想您的意思是，這是一種市場驅動的工業汽車。然後我想你甚至提到他們是歐洲客戶。難道真的是這樣想的嗎？因為歐洲汽車和工業客戶是主要客戶，或者可以說是猶豫不決的食物鏈？

Well, Dave -- David, I don't think Fusen said it was just these people who are in hesitation, right? I think all our customers are in hesitation, including those in Taiwan and China, which is why at that high utilization rate, they're not making the orders that they normally would make. I think what Fusen is talking about Southeast Asia, in particular, is we see Southeast Asia actually drop the most sequentially from Q2 to Q3.

好吧，戴夫——戴維，我不認為 Fusen 說的只是這些人在猶豫，對吧？我認為我們所有的客戶都在猶豫，包括台灣和中國大陸的客戶，這就是為什麼在如此高的利用率下，他們沒有像往常一樣下訂單。我認為 Fusen 特別談到東南亞，我們發現東南亞實際上從第二季到第三季連續下降幅度最大。

And part of that is because we have a large auto industrial client base in Southeast Asia and most of them are, you're right, IBM from Europe, and they are very -- so they are particularly, I guess, affected by concerns about the tariffs. So we didn't say it's only them that have concerns about the tariff. I think it goes across the board is that they particularly have been affected in Q3 when you compare it to Q2.

部分原因是我們在東南亞擁有龐大的汽車工業客戶群，其中大多數是來自歐洲的 IBM，他們非常——所以我想他們尤其受到關稅擔憂的影響。所以我們並沒有說只有他們對關稅感到擔憂。我認為，與第二季相比，第三季受到的影響尤其大。

There are no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn the floor back over to Joe Elgindy for closing comments.

目前沒有其他問題。現在我想把發言權交還給喬·埃爾金迪，請他發表最後評論。

Thank you, Maria, and thank you all for joining today's call. Over the coming quarter, we'll be presenting at several conferences and road shows. As always, please feel for you to follow up directly with any additional questions. This concludes today's call. Have a great day, everyone.

謝謝你，瑪麗亞，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。在接下來的一個季度，我們將參加幾場會議和路演。像往常一樣，如果您有任何其他問題，請隨時直接跟進。今天的電話會議到此結束。祝大家有個愉快的一天。