庫力索法 (KLIC) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Kulicke and Soffa fourth quarter 2025 results conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Joseph Elgindy, Senior Director of Investor Relations for Kulicke & Soffa.

各位好，歡迎參加 Kulicke and Soffa 2025 年第四季業績電話會議。（操作說明）提醒各位，本次會議正在錄音。現在，我很榮幸地向大家介紹主持人，Kulicke & Soffa 投資者關係高級總監 Joseph Elgindy。

Thank you, Mr. Elgindy. You may begin.

謝謝你，艾爾金迪先生。你可以開始了。

Thank you. Welcome, everyone, to Kulicke and Soffa's fiscal fourth quarter 2025 conference call. Lester Wong, Interim Chief Executive Officer and Chief Financial Officer, also joins me on today's call. Non-GAAP financial measures referenced today should be considered in addition to, not as a substitute for or in isolation from our GAAP financial information. GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliation tables are included within our latest earnings release and earnings presentation. Both are available at investor.kns.com along with prepared remarks for today's call.

謝謝。歡迎各位參加 Kulicke and Soffa 2025 財年第四季電話會議。臨時執行長兼財務長 Lester Wong 也參加了今天的電話會議。今天提到的非GAAP財務指標應作為補充資訊考慮，而不是替代或脫離我們的GAAP財務資訊。GAAP 與非 GAAP 財務報表調整表已包含在我們最新的獲利報告和獲利簡報中。這兩份文件以及今天電話會議的準備好的發言稿都可以在 investor.kns.com 上找到。

In addition to historical information, today's discussion contains forward-looking statements regarding our future performance and outlook. These statements are made under the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and involve risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially.

除了歷史資訊外，今天的討論還包含有關我們未來業績和前景的前瞻性陳述。這些聲明是根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》的安全港條款作出的，並且涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與預期結果有重大差異。

For a complete discussion of the risks associated with Kulicke and Soffa that could affect our future results and financial condition, please refer to our latest Form 10-K and upcoming SEC filings for additional information. With that said, I will now turn the call over to Lester Wong for the business overview.

有關 Kulicke 和 Soffa 相關風險可能影響我們未來業績和財務狀況的完整討論，請參閱我們最新的 10-K 表格和即將提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件以獲取更多資訊。接下來，我將把電話交給 Lester Wong，讓他為大家做業務概述。

Please go ahead, Lester.

請繼續，萊斯特。

Thank you, Joe. Good morning, everyone. Before discussing this quarter's business performance and outlook, I want to briefly discuss recent organizational changes we announced on October 28. I have taken over as Interim CEO due to Fusen Chen's recent retirement and will continue my existing duties as the Company's Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Fusen is actively recovering and doing well, and we appreciate everyone's thoughts and concerns.

謝謝你，喬。大家早安。在討論本季業務表現和展望之前，我想先簡單討論我們在 10 月 28 日宣布的最新組織變革。由於陳福森先生近期退休，我已接任臨時執行長一職，並將繼續履行我作為公司執行副總裁兼財務長的現有職責。福森正在積極康復，情況良好，感謝大家的關心和慰問。

While a search for a permanent successor among external and internal candidates is underway, we are fortunate to have a deep bench of talented leaders in the executive team and an involved Board of Directors who are committed to ensuring the continuity of leadership, stability and strategic focus of the company.

雖然公司正在外部和內部候選人中尋找永久繼任者，但我們很幸運，執行團隊中擁有一群才華橫溢的領導者，董事會也積極參與，致力於確保公司領導層的連續性、穩定性和戰略重點。

We expect this transition to be seamless and customers can expect continued innovation, global support and strong commitment from K&S to serve the evolving needs and to enable next-generation devices. I want to thank Fusen for his leadership over the past nine years.

我們預計這一過渡將順利進行，客戶可以期待 K&S 繼續創新、提供全球支援並做出堅定承諾，以滿足不斷變化的需求並實現下一代設備。我要感謝福森過去九年來的領導。

Under his guidance, we pursued meaningful new business opportunities and expanded our market access by securing a foothold in several high-potential technologies. We have also dramatically increased the volume of customer engagements and improved time-to-market execution. In doing so, we have accelerated the growth of our advanced portfolio of solutions, which enabled meaningful share gains in leading edge logic and has paved the path for additional expansion in DRAM, power semiconductor and advanced dispense.

在他的指導下，我們尋求有意義的新商機，並透過在幾項高潛力技術領域站穩腳跟，擴大了市場准入。我們也大幅增加了客戶互動量，並提高了產品上市速度。透過這樣做，我們加快了先進解決方案組合的成長，從而在尖端邏輯領域獲得了顯著的市場份額，並為在 DRAM、功率半導體和先進點膠領域進一步擴張鋪平了道路。

Fusen's legacy is an organization defined by growth, agility and close customer focus. We appreciate that he has agreed to provide advisory support over the coming year and believe his vast experience and industry knowledge will be a useful resource to the company as we extend our leadership in advanced packaging and adapt to industry transitions such as the rise of chiplet architectures and heterogeneous integration. I, along with the entire organization, would like to wish Fusen a happy and healthy retirement.

Fusen 的傳承在於其不斷成長、靈活敏捷且高度關注客戶的組織形象。我們感謝他同意在未來一年提供諮詢支持，並相信他豐富的經驗和行業知識將成為公司的寶貴資源，幫助我們擴大在先進封裝領域的領先地位，並適應晶片架構和異構集成等行業轉型。我謹代表全體員工，祝福福森退休生活幸福健康。

I am confident we will continue to win market share and grow the business over the long term. As all of our end markets are showing signs of improvement, we have recently begun to prepare for higher production while continuing to aggressively drive several exciting technology transitions.

我相信我們將繼續贏得市場份額，並在長期內實現業務成長。由於我們所有的終端市場都出現了好轉的跡象，我們最近開始為提高產量做準備，同時繼續積極推動幾項令人興奮的技術轉型。

Additionally, in my role as Interim CEO, I am grateful to have met many customers in person over the past month and look forward to meeting with many others over the near term. We are fully committed to consistently providing customers with best-in-class capabilities and high-performance solutions they expect from K&S.

此外，作為臨時首席執行官，我很榮幸在過去一個月與許多客戶進行了面對面的交流，並期待在不久的將來與更多客戶見面。我們始終致力於為客戶提供他們期望從 K&S 獲得的卓越能力和高效能解決方案。

Turning to our recent business results. We are encouraged by improved order activity, supported by favorable utilization trends in general semiconductor and memory end markets while we continue to execute on key initiatives. Within our fourth fiscal quarter, we generated revenue of $177.6 million, GAAP earnings per share of $0.12 and non-GAAP earnings per share of $0.28.

接下來來看看我們最近的業務成果。訂單活動的改善令我們倍感鼓舞，這得益於半導體和記憶體終端市場整體良好的利用率趨勢，同時我們也將繼續推動各項關鍵舉措。在第四財季，我們實現了 1.776 億美元的收入，GAAP 每股收益為 0.12 美元，非 GAAP 每股收益為 0.28 美元。

We remain focused on operational efficiency as we expand our reach within thermocompression, vertical wire, advanced dispense and power semiconductor transitions. From an end market standpoint, utilization rate for high-volume general semiconductor and memory applications continue to improve, while dynamics within the automotive and industrial markets are now showing early improvement.

我們將繼續專注於營運效率，同時不斷擴大我們在熱壓成型、垂直佈線、先進點膠和功率半導體轉型領域的業務範圍。從終端市場角度來看，大批量通用半導體和記憶體應用的使用率持續提高，而汽車和工業市場的動態也開始出現初步改善。

General semiconductor revenue increased by 24% sequentially, driven by technology and capacity needs, which increased thermocompression and ball bonder demand during the September quarter. We estimate utilization rates are currently over 80% for this key end market.

受技術和產能需求的推動，半導體行業整體收入環比增長 24%，其中 9 月季度熱壓焊和球焊機的需求增加。我們估計，目前該主要終端市場的使用率已超過 80%。

Memory has also improved sequentially, similar to general semi in both utilization and revenue. Memory-related revenue increased by nearly 60% sequentially to $24.4 million and was driven predominantly by NAND-related capacity additions.

記憶體產業也逐週成長，與半導體產業的利用率和收入情況類似。記憶體相關收入較上季成長近 60%，達到 2,440 萬美元，主要得益於 NAND 相關產能的增加。

Historically, our memory solutions were tailored for high-density NAND assembly, although we remain closely engaged in supporting advanced packaging transitions within DRAM. We continue to expect the growth in high-performance edge application like on-device AI or AI on the edge will begin to accelerate this trend.

從歷史上看，我們的儲存解決方案是為高密度 NAND 組裝量身定制的，儘管我們仍然密切參與支援 DRAM 中的先進封裝轉型。我們繼續預期，像設備端人工智慧或邊緣人工智慧這樣的高性能邊緣應用的發展將加速這一趨勢。

Order hesitation within automotive and industrial has continued into the September quarter with a relatively sharp sequential decline. While the broader automotive market has been softer, we anticipate a sequential improvement during the current December quarter and are pleased to report a more positive outlook through fiscal 2026.

汽車和工業領域的訂單猶豫不決的局面延續到了9月份的季度，環比下降幅度相對較大。儘管整體汽車市場表現疲軟，但我們預計在當前的 12 月季度將出現環比改善，並很高興地宣布，我們對 2026 財年的前景持更加樂觀的態度。

As a reminder, we remain an active technology partner, providing many new innovations within power semiconductor, which are supporting long-term transitions within the EV and other clean tech markets. Last, APS has increased by 17% sequentially, which aligns with improving utilization data and more distinctly highlights increased production activity across our high-volume installed base.

再次提醒大家，我們仍然是積極的技術合作夥伴，在功率半導體領域提供了許多創新技術，這些技術正在支持電動車和其他清潔技術市場的長期轉型。最後，APS 環比增長了 17%，這與不斷改善的利用率數據相符，並更明顯地突顯了我們高容量裝置基礎的生產活動增加。

We are optimistic about fiscal 2026 and remain encouraged by improving end market dynamics along with strong traction we are seeing across our growing set of advanced packaging, advanced dispense and power semiconductor opportunities.

我們對 2026 財年持樂觀態度，並受到終端市場動態改善以及我們在不斷增長的先進封裝、先進點膠和功率半導體領域所取得的強勁進展的鼓舞。

Within advanced packaging, we continue to support the industry adoption of advanced thermocompression and vertical wire applications and remain closely engaged with multiple leading customers on these exciting initiatives.

在先進封裝領域，我們繼續支持業界採用先進的熱壓和垂直線材應用，並與多家領先客戶就這些令人興奮的舉措保持密切合作。

First, within Fluxless Thermo-Compression or FTC, we continue to directly address the needs of advanced heterogeneous logic applications. We are pleased to see growing demand across our customer base, driven by the increasing capacity needs of IDM, foundry and assembly and test customers. Our operational and supply chain teams are actively preparing for a production ramp through fiscal 2026 as adoption for our FTC process begins to accelerate.

首先，在無熔劑熱壓縮（FTC）領域，我們持續直接滿足先進異構邏輯應用的需求。我們很高興看到客戶群的需求不斷增長，這主要得益於IDM、代工、組裝和測試客戶不斷增長的產能需求。隨著 FTC 流程的採用速度開始加快，我們的營運和供應鏈團隊正在積極準備，以期在 2026 財年實現產能爬坡。

Additionally, we are preparing to ship our first HBM system within the current December ending quarter. Within the HBM market, we continue to anticipate advanced Thermo-Compression capabilities such as FTC, provides an attractive assembly alternative as bandwidth requirements increase with future HBM standards.

此外，我們正準備在本季末（截至 12 月）交付我們的第一套 HBM 系統。在 HBM 市場中，我們繼續期待先進的熱壓縮技術（如 FTC）能夠提供有吸引力的組裝替代方案，因為隨著未來 HBM 標準的提高，頻寬要求也會增加。

On the mobility side of DRAM, we continue to expect on-device AI applications to demand high level of bandwidth and increase the need for new vertical wire-based assembly over the coming years. This is a great example of how advanced packaging techniques are directly supporting power efficiency, performance and form factor improvements, helping to offset the rising costs of traditional transistor shrink.

在 DRAM 的移動性方面，我們預計未來幾年設備端 AI 應用將繼續需要高頻寬，並增加對新型垂直導線組裝的需求。這正是先進封裝技術如何直接支援功率效率、性能和外形尺寸改進，從而有助於抵消傳統電晶體尺寸縮小帶來的成本上升的一個很好的例子。

We remain engaged with a broad group of memory customers who are actively preparing for this transition. Our vertical wire market expectations into fiscal 2026 remain consistent, and we continue to anticipate a shift to higher-volume market production by the end of the year.

我們與眾多記憶體客戶保持密切聯繫，他們正在積極為這一轉變做好準備。我們對 2026 財年垂直線材市場的預期保持不變，我們繼續預計到年底市場產量將轉向更高水準。

Longer term, we anticipate stacked DRAM or mobile HBM will continue to grow aggressively with high-volume edge-related applications. Next, with advanced dispense, we are pleased to release our recent dispense system, ACELON during Semiconductor Taiwan in September.

從長遠來看，我們預計堆疊式 DRAM 或行動 HBM 將繼續隨著大批量邊緣相關應用而快速成長。接下來，憑藉先進的點膠技術，我們很高興在九月的台灣國際半導體展上推出我們最新的點膠系統ACELON。

ACELON leverages our unique and high-precision dispense capabilities with a highly robust architecture platform, which has been proven in critical production environment. Transitions in many of our end markets are increasing demand for high precision and more capable dispense systems. We continue to receive recurring purchase orders as well as new customer purchase orders for our growing line of advanced dispense systems.

ACELON 利用我們獨特的高精度點膠能力和高度穩健的架構平台，該平台已在關鍵的生產環境中得到驗證。許多終端市場的轉型正在增加對高精度和更強大點膠系統的需求。我們不斷收到老客戶的重複採購訂單，以及針對我們日益豐富的先進分配系統產品線的新客戶採購訂單。

Finally, while the current automotive and industrial market remains dynamic, we continue to develop innovative solutions to address increasing level of assembly complexity surrounding power semiconductor applications.

最後，儘管當前的汽車和工業市場仍然充滿活力，但我們將繼續開發創新解決方案，以應對功率半導體應用領域日益複雜的組裝要求。

In summary, we continue to expand our market presence on multiple fronts and remain cautiously optimistic as key regions and end markets show signs of cyclical improvement. We are pleased to see ongoing general semiconductor capacity digestion and expansion within our key regions as well as memory technology transitions and pricing improvements, which are all promising indicators and that increases our confidence in the outlook.

總而言之，我們繼續在多個方面擴大市場份額，並且隨著主要地區和終端市場出現週期性改善的跡象，我們保持謹慎樂觀的態度。我們很高興看到主要地區的半導體產能持續消化和擴張，以及記憶體技術的轉型和價格的改善，這些都是令人鼓舞的跡象，增強了我們對前景的信心。

We continue to navigate a uniquely exciting time in semiconductor assembly with the potential to capitalize on a wide set of opportunities in the industry. With that said, I will now provide a brief financial update. My remarks today will refer to GAAP results unless noted. We delivered revenue above guidance, continue to execute on close customer engagements and maintain an ongoing focus on cost control.

我們正處於半導體組裝行業一個令人興奮的全新時期，並有可能抓住行業內的各種機會。接下來，我將簡單介紹一下財務狀況。除非另有說明，我今天的發言將以GAAP準則下的結果為準。我們實現了超出預期的收入，繼續與客戶保持密切合作，並持續專注於成本控制。

Gross margins came in at 45.7%, and we delivered $0.28 of non-GAAP earnings. Total operating expense came in at $80.3 million on a GAAP basis and just below $70 million on a non-GAAP basis. We continue to remain focused on operational efficiency while we support a growing set of opportunities.

毛利率為 45.7%，非 GAAP 收益為 0.28 美元。以美國通用會計準則 (GAAP) 計算，總營運費用為 8,030 萬美元；以非美國通用會計準則 (non-GAAP) 計算，總營運費用略低於 7,000 萬美元。我們將繼續專注於提升營運效率，同時支援不斷成長的各種機會。

We continue to anticipate non-GAAP operating expense to be around $70 million over the coming quarters, which provides a strong foundation for operational leverage as demand for our solution ramps. Tax expense came in at $0.3 million, and we continue to anticipate our effective tax rate will remain above 20% over the near term.

我們繼續預計未來幾季的非GAAP營運費用約為7000萬美元，這將為隨著我們解決方案需求的增長而實現營運槓桿奠定堅實的基礎。稅項支出為 0.3 百萬美元，我們預計短期內實際稅率仍將維持在 20% 以上。

During the September quarter, we continued our repurchase program and deployed $16.7 million to repurchase 464,000 shares. Over fiscal year 2025, we repurchased 2.4 million shares, representing nearly 5% of shares outstanding for $96.5 million.

在九月份的季度中，我們繼續實施股票回購計劃，並投入 1,670 萬美元回購了 46.4 萬股股票。在 2025 財年，我們回購了 240 萬股股票，約佔流通股的 5%，共 9,650 萬美元。

Looking ahead, end market improvements within general semiconductor and memory are becoming more evident, supported by regional utilization improvement and a strong sequential increase in APS demand. While automotive and industrial was previously expected to create an ongoing headwind into fiscal 2026, we are pleased to now anticipate sequential improvement into the December quarter.

展望未來，在區域利用率提高和APS需求強勁成長的支持下，通用半導體和記憶體終端市場的改善正變得越來越明顯。雖然先前預計汽車和工業領域將持續對 2026 財年構成不利影響，但我們很高興地預計，到 12 月季度將出現環比改善。

For the December quarter, revenue is expected to increase by approximately 7% sequentially to $190 million with gross margins at 47%. Non-GAAP operating expenses are expected to be $71 million with GAAP earnings per share targeted to be $0.18 and non-GAAP earnings per share of $0.33. While we remain focused on production readiness and key growth opportunities, we have also strengthened operational and development efficiencies over the past few quarters.

預計 12 月季度營收將季增約 7%，達到 1.9 億美元，毛利率為 47%。預計非GAAP營運費用為7,100萬美元，GAAP每股收益目標為0.18美元，非GAAP每股盈餘目標為0.33美元。在繼續專注於生產準備和關鍵成長機會的同時，我們也在過去幾季加強了營運和開發效率。

We are confident that these efforts position us to emerge from the extended soft demand period, a leaner and more growth optimized organization. Today, we're either a dominant incumbent leader or are aggressively taking share in every key markets we serve. We continue to ensure our highest potential opportunities are well resourced and our customer development efforts are on a positive trajectory.

我們相信，這些努力將使我們能夠從長期的低迷需求期中走出來，成為一個更精簡、成長更優化的組織。如今，我們要么是佔據主導地位的現有領導者，要么正在積極地在我們服務的每個關鍵市場中搶佔市場份額。我們將繼續確保最具潛力的機會得到充分的資源支持，並確保我們的客戶開發工作朝著正面的方向發展。

Looking into fiscal 2026, we anticipate that half of our incremental growth will stem from technology transitions and share gains in new markets. At the same time, the other portion of sequential growth is increasingly encouraging due to the anticipation of ongoing cyclical recovery over the coming quarters. We look forward to ongoing execution and progress on advanced packaging, advanced dispense and power semiconductor opportunities as we prepare for the broader core market recovery.

展望 2026 財年，我們預期一半的增量成長將來自技術轉型和在新市場的份額成長。同時，由於預期未來幾季將持續出現週期性復甦，環比成長的另一部分也越來越令人鼓舞。我們期待在先進封裝、先進點膠和功率半導體領域持續推進並取得進展，為更廣泛的核心市場復甦做好準備。

In closing, we remain focused on executing our strategic priorities, are confident in our capabilities and technology leadership and prepared to navigate the near-term macro environment. This concludes our prepared comments.

最後，我們將繼續專注於執行我們的策略重點，對自身的能力和技術領先地位充滿信心，並已做好準備應對近期宏觀環境的變化。我們的發言到此結束。

Operator, please open the call for questions.

接線員，請開啟提問環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

Krish Sankar，TD Cowen。

Yeah, hi, thanks for taking my question and good luck to Fusen and definitely going to miss him. I have two questions left. The first one, it looks like based on your guidance, pretty much sequentially all your three segments, general semi, memory and auto industrial should grow. Is that the right way to think about it? And how to think about it into the March quarter and any kind of seasonality effects? And then a follow-up.

嗨，謝謝你回答我的問題，祝你在福森一切順利，我肯定會想念他的。我還有兩個問題。第一個方面，根據您的指導，您的三個細分市場（通用半導體、記憶體和汽車產業）應該會依次成長。這種思考方式正確嗎？那麼，如何考慮三月季度的情況以及各種季節性影響呢？然後還有後續報道。

Thanks, Krish, and I appreciate your sentiment Fusen, I will definitely pass it on. As far as the three segments are concerned, I think as we said, general semi and memory are actually very strong. Utilization for both is over 80%.

謝謝Krish，Fusen，我非常感謝你的好意，我一定會轉達的。就這三個領域而言，我認為正如我們所說，通用半導體和記憶體實際上非常強大。兩者的利用率均超過 80%。

Auto and Industrial is still lagging a little bit, but we do -- we're very optimistic about it because we do see improvements, and we think there will be sequential growth into Q1. So I think as far as how we want to look at the March quarter, we think March will probably be -- probably flat to Q1. So we don't see any seasonality into the March quarter.

汽車和工業領域仍然略顯滯後，但我們對此非常樂觀，因為我們確實看到了改善，我們認為第一季將會持續成長。所以，就我們看待三月季度的情況而言，我們認為三月的業績可能會與第一季持平。因此，我們沒有看到三月季度出現任何季節性波動。

Got it. Thanks for that. And then as a quick follow-up, one of your Taiwan competitors spoke about their FTC plasma solution for chip-to-wafer has passed final call as being used with a leading foundry. So I'm kind of curious, what is your status there? And do you think they could split the business or you're not in pole position anymore?

知道了。謝謝。然後，作為後續報道，你們的一位台灣競爭對手談到，他們用於晶片到晶圓的 FTC 等離子解決方案已經通過最終審核，並被一家領先的代工廠採用。所以我很好奇，你在那裡的情況如何？你認為他們會拆分公司嗎？還是說你已經失去了領先地位？

Well, Krish, I think we're still the only one at the foundry doing high-volume production, right? I won't comment on our competitors. I mean we were qualified a long time ago. So I think we continue to feel very strongly about our solution. Our solution now has both formic acid and plasma.

克里什，我想我們仍然是鑄造廠裡唯一一家進行大量生產的公司，對吧？我不會對我們的競爭對手發表評論。我的意思是，我們很久以前就具備資格了。所以我認為我們仍然對我們的解決方案充滿信心。我們的解決方案現在同時含有甲酸和等離子體。

So it gives the customer a lot more optionality to do it. We have single head, we have dual head. So we think our FTC solution is basically best-in-class, and we feel very, very competitive at the foundry as well as anywhere else we compete against the competitors.

這樣一來，客戶就有了更多選擇。我們有單頭的，也有雙頭的。因此，我們認為我們的 FTC 解決方案基本上是一流的，我們在代工廠以及我們與競爭對手競爭的任何其他領域都感到非常有競爭力。

Got it. Thanks a lot, Lester.

知道了。非常感謝，萊斯特。

Charles Shi, Needham & Co.

史志強，李約瑟公司

Hi, Lester. Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe the first one. You talked about shipping a system to the HBM customer. I know the team has worked on this for a while, and it's finally shipping. So it's definitely going to be good news I think by most of the investors.

你好，萊斯特。謝謝您回答我的問題。或許是第一個。你提到要交付系統給 HBM 客戶。我知道團隊為此努力了一段時間，現在終於要發布了。所以我認為這對大多數投資者來說肯定是個好消息。

But kind of wondered if you can provide a little bit more color on this shipment. What's the nature of the shipment? Where -- I mean, as much as you can provide color where you are shipping the system to? And what's the next milestone? Thank you.

不過，我很想知道您能否提供更多關於這批貨物的詳細資訊。這批貨物的性質是什麼？地點－我的意思是，你能不能盡可能詳細地說明一下系統運送到哪裡？下一個里程碑是什麼？謝謝。

Thanks, Charles. Well, we're shipping the system to the -- somewhere in the United States, right, without being too specific. As far as the next milestone is once it's installed, they're going to start running wafers through it, and we're going to look for qualification. So we hope to get -- share some news a few months after the system has been installed at the customer.

謝謝你，查爾斯。嗯，我們會把這套系統運往──美國的某個地方，對吧，具體地點我就不說了。下一個里程碑是設備安裝完畢後，他們將開始用它來加工晶圓，我們將進行認證。所以我們希望在系統安裝到客戶那裡幾個月後，能和大家分享一些消息。

Thanks. Do you have any insight into which generation of HBM this qualification is targeted at?

謝謝。您能否透露一下這項資格認證的目標族群是哪一代的HBM（健康商業管理）從業人員？

I would say it's probably 4E.

我覺得應該是 4E 版本。

Okay. Thank you. So maybe the next question, you talked about growth for fiscal '26. Half of that is coming from tech transitions, share gains, the other half from cyclical recovery. But wondering if you can put some quantitative color into that, like how much -- how many percentage points do you think can come from both areas? And any directional -- I mean, hopefully, it can be a little more quantitative that would be great.

好的。謝謝。那麼下一個問題可能是，您談到了 2026 財年的成長情況。其中一半來自技術轉型和市佔率成長，另一半來自週期性復甦。但我想知道您能否對此進行一些量化說明，例如，您認為這兩個領域可以帶來多少百分比的提升？任何方向性的——我的意思是，如果能更量化一些就太好了。

Sure, Charles. As you know, we don't guide beyond the quarter. But I think we're very comfortable with the -- for FY26, we're very comfortable with the consensus number, which I believe is around [$730 million], [$740 million]. And then again, as I said in my remarks and as you just repeated, we think half the incremental growth will be from technology transition like FTC, like vertical wire, like advanced dispense as well as power semiconductor. And then the other one would be from the cyclical recovery led by the very high utilization rate, which we see out there, which is about 80% right now.

當然可以，查爾斯。如您所知，我們不提供季度以外的投資指導。但我認為我們對2026財年的預期非常滿意，我們對普遍接受的預期數字非常滿意，我認為這個數字大約是…[7.3億美元]，[7.4億美元]。正如我在演講中所說，也正如你剛才重複的那樣，我們認為一半的增量增長將來自技術轉型，例如 FTC、垂直佈線、先進點膠以及功率半導體。另一個原因是週期性復甦，而週期性復甦是由非常高的利用率推動的，我們現在看到的利用率約為 80%。

Tom Diffely, D.A. Davidson.

湯姆·迪菲利，D.A.戴維森。

Yes. Good morning. Thank you for letting me ask a few question. Lester, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about the NAND market. We're hearing obviously strength in high-bandwidth memory, and that's using up some of the DRAM capacity. But I haven't heard anybody talk about strength or improvements in the NAND markets until you mentioned it earlier today. Maybe just a little more comment on the NAND market.

是的。早安.謝謝您允許我問幾個問題。萊斯特，我想請你再多談談NAND市場。我們顯然聽到了高頻寬記憶體的強勁需求，而這正在佔用一些 DRAM 容量。但直到今天早些時候你提到這一點之前，我還沒有聽到任何人談論 NAND 市場的強勁勢頭或改進情況。或許可以再多談談NAND市場。

For sure. I mean I think we -- what we're seeing is we're seeing very high utilization rates in memory. It's over 80%, about 82%, 83%. We're also seeing, I guess, purchase orders increasing in that market as well, particularly in China. Again, China itself, it's driven by general semi and memory and China utilization is actually close to 90%. So that's basically what we're seeing in the field, Tom.

一定。我的意思是，我認為我們——我們看到的是記憶體利用率非常高。超過 80%，約 82%，83%。我想我們也看到，該市場的採購訂單也在增加，尤其是在中國。再說，中國本身，它是由通用半導體和記憶體驅動的，中國的利用率實際上接近 90%。湯姆，這就是我們在現場看到的情況。

Okay. And would you still -- you said there wasn't much in the way of normal seasonality, but would you still expect more of a ramp to happen post Chinese New Year kind of the normal cycle as far as incoming new orders?

好的。您說沒有太多正常的季節性因素，但您是否仍預期春節後新訂單量會像往常一樣成長？

Well, we're actually, again, already seeing orders now into Q2. So I think it'll probably be flat. I think this year, FY26 probably would be a little more linearity throughout the entire year. So I think, again, I don't see a huge uptick after Chinese New Year, but it'd be nice if it happened.

其實，我們已經再次看到第二季的訂單了。所以我認為地勢可能會很平坦。我認為今年，也就是2026財年，全年的發展可能會更加線性一些。所以我覺得，春節後銷量不會大幅成長，但如果能成長當然很好。

Yeah. And I do want to echo your comments on Fusen. I've been covering the company on and off for 25 years. And when he came in several -- many years ago, there was really a sea change in the productivity of the company and the outlook of the company. So I wish him all the best.

是的。我非常贊同你對Fusen的看法。我斷斷續續地報道這家公司已經25年了。很多年前他加入公司後，公司的生產力和前景都發生了翻天覆地的變化。所以我祝他一切順利。

Thank you, Tom. Thank you. As I indicated, Fusen transformed K&S and expanded our portfolio of advanced products. And a big part of this incremental growth from technology transition is due to his vision and his strategy. So we all wish him well in his retirement.

謝謝你，湯姆。謝謝。正如我之前提到的，Fusen 改變了 K&S，並擴展了我們的先進產品組合。技術轉型帶來的這種漸進式成長很大程度上歸功於他的遠見卓識和策略。所以我們都祝福他退休生活一切順利。

Yeah. Thanks, Lester.

是的。謝謝你，萊斯特。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Dave Duley, Steelhead Securities.

Dave Duley，Steelhead Securities。

Yeah, good evening, and thanks for taking my questions and please relay my best wishes on retirement to Fusen as well.

好的，晚上好，感謝您回答我的問題，也請代我向扶森轉達我對他退休的美好祝愿。

We do, Dave.

是的，戴夫。

First question, I think in your slide deck, you talked about increasing market share in the HBM market. Could you just elaborate a little bit further on that? Is that just what you were referring to is shipping an HBM tool for Thermo-Compression bonding? Or is there something else to that commentary?

第一個問題，我想在你的幻燈片中，你談到了提高在 HBM 市場的市佔率。能否再詳細解釋一下？您指的就是運送用於熱壓黏合的 HBM 工具嗎？或者，這種評論還有其他意義嗎？

So Dave, I think actually the slide referred to increasing market share in DRAM, not specifically HBM. As I think I said in my remarks as well as responding to Charles' question, we are going to ship our first HBM machine to a customer in the US for qualification.

所以戴夫，我認為那張投影片其實指的是 DRAM 市場佔有率的成長，而不是特別指 HBM。正如我在演講中以及回答查爾斯的問題時所說，我們將把第一台 HBM 機器運送給美國的一位客戶進行鑑定。

Okay. So that commentary is just wrapped around the HBM shipment to a thermocompression bonding tool, nothing else?

好的。所以，這段評論僅僅圍繞著 HBM 向熱壓黏接工具的運輸展開，沒有其他內容嗎？

Yes. For now, we are very -- as you know, we started our thermocompression focus on logic. We are the market leader in logic for thermocompression. But again, we're just entering the HBM market now. But we're very optimistic. We believe the tool is very well suited to HBM. And we think as standards change and as well as density increases, I think the tool -- the [Fluxless] Thermo-Compression tool will do really well.

是的。目前，我們非常——正如您所知，我們最初將熱壓縮技術重點放在邏輯上。我們在熱壓縮邏輯領域處於市場領先地位。但話說回來，我們現在才剛進入人腦血庫市場。但我們非常樂觀。我們認為該工具非常適合 HBM。我們認為，隨著標準的改變和密度的增加，我認為這種工具—[無熔劑]熱壓縮工具將會表現出色。

Now do you think at this customer, you'll be trying to displace a Fluxless -- a standard Thermo-Compression tool? Or will you be -- are you up against a hybrid tool? Or what do you think kind of the -- how this unfolds as far as the qualification goes and what you're competing against?

你認為在這個客戶那裡，你會嘗試用 Fluxless（標準的熱壓工具）來取代它嗎？還是你會面對的是一種混合型工具？或者，你覺得就資格賽而言，比賽會如何發展，以及你將與哪些選手競爭？

Well, I think we're basically competing against other Thermo-Compression bonders, right? Not so much hybrid for now. I think hybrid still, as we've spoken before, for HBM, hybrid is a little bit off for now. So I think mainly the competition will be other TCB.

嗯，我覺得我們基本上是在和其他熱壓黏合設備製造商競爭，對吧？目前還沒有太多混合型產品。我認為混合架構仍然不太合適，就像我們之前討論過的那樣，對於 HBM 來說，混合架構目前還不太現實。所以我認為主要的競爭對手將是其他TCB球隊。

Okay. And then you mentioned vertical wire ramping in the -- I think, in the back -- in 2026. Could you just elaborate a little bit more on what exact -- why is that ramping now? Is it tied to specific handset model or some end market? And then maybe help us understand what expectations you have for that new business in 2026?

好的。然後你提到了垂直鋼絲斜坡——我想是在後面——在 2026 年。能否再詳細說明一下具體是什麼－為什麼現在會出現這種情況？它是否與特定手機型號或某些終端市場有關？那麼，您能否幫助我們了解您對2026年新業務的預期呢？

Sure. Well, I mean, we've been working on vertical wire for a while. And now we've had calls and we have tools at many customers, both in China as well as outside of China. As the calls progress, we believe that the first high-volume production will be in the latter part of CY26, which means we start shipping tools in the latter part of our fiscal '26, right? So I think that's basically sort of the color around what we think. And as far as our expectations, we still think FY26 is going to be the beginning. So I think somewhere around the neighborhood of [$10 billion], and then we think it will ramp significantly in '27 and beyond.

當然。嗯，我的意思是，我們已經研究垂直電線一段時間了。現在我們已經接到了很多客戶的電話，我們已經為許多客戶（包括中國境內和境外的客戶）提供了工具。隨著洽談的進行，我們相信首批大批量生產將在 2026 年下半年進行，這意味著我們將在 2026 財年下半年開始出貨，對嗎？所以我覺得這基本上就是我們思考方式的大致輪廓。至於我們的預期，我們仍然認為 2026 財政年度將是一個開始。所以我認為大概在 100 億美元左右，然後我們認為 2027 年及以後會大幅成長。

Okay. And do you have -- as far as your core business goes, usually, it's somewhat tied to unit volume growth in the general semi market. I was just wondering if you had an idea about how fast units are growing in 2025 or a prediction for unit growth in 2026?

好的。至於您的核心業務，通常來說，它與半導體市場的銷售成長在某種程度上是相關的。我只是想問您是否了解 2025 年的銷售成長速度，或者對 2026 年的銷售成長有何預測？

Well, yeah, we have used that before, and I think it's probably 5%, 7%. But again, I think what is really giving us confidence is the utilization rate, which is, as I said, over 80% in both memory and general semiconductor and then 80% overall. Also, again, a lot of our core business is in China, and that utilization rate is almost close to 90%.

嗯，是的，我們以前用過，我想大概是 5% 到 7%。但我認為真正讓我們充滿信心的是利用率，正如我所說，記憶體和通用半導體的利用率都超過 80%，整體利用率也達到 80%。另外，我們很多核心業務都在中國，而且利用率幾乎接近 90%。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Dave.

謝謝你，戴夫。

Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

Craig Ellis，B. Riley Securities。

Yeah, thanks for taking the question. Lester, good luck in the role and good luck to Fusen as well with health issues. I wanted to start and admittedly, I missed the first part of the call, but I wanted to start better understanding the dynamics that you're seeing in the memory market.

好的，謝謝你回答這個問題。萊斯特，祝你工作順利，也祝福富森早日康復。我想開始發言，但我必須承認，我錯過了通話的前半部分，但我希望更好地了解您在記憶體市場看到的動態。

Lester, do you think this is just a steeper slope that you're seeing in memory as utilization and orders have improved? Or is it really just a different timing for what might be a typical seasonal move up in memory ahead of second half build. So the question is really on the trajectory of the recovery that you're seeing.

萊斯特，你認為這只是記憶體利用率和訂單量提高後，記憶體成長曲線變得更陡峭的體現嗎？或者，這只是在下半季開始前，人們記憶中典型的季節性上漲的時機不同而已。所以問題其實在於你所看到的復甦軌跡。

Well, as -- so Craig, I think right now, memory utilization is very high. I mean sales are increasing there. They're still obviously lagging general semi. So I think right now, I do think this is a ramp in memory, and it will continue into FY26.

嗯，正如克雷格所說，我認為目前記憶體使用率非常高。我的意思是，那裡的銷售額正在成長。他們顯然仍然落後於一般半吊子水平。所以我認為目前來看，這確實是記憶體使用量的上升趨勢，而且這種趨勢將持續到 2026 財年。

Yeah. And can you talk about the potential for memory in '26 to get back to historic revenue levels? And then because general semi is rebounding and it's doing so against a slightly improved but not significantly improved high-volume PC and smartphone market. What do you think is really driving the improvement in general semi?

是的。能否談談2026年內存產業收入恢復到歷史水準的可能性？而且，通用半導體產業正在復甦，儘管高銷量個人電腦和智慧型手機市場略有改善，但並未顯著改善。你認為真正推動半導體產業整體水準提升的因素是什麼？

Well, I think it's still smartphone and high-performance computer, right? I mean it's cyclical. I think for a long time, we've -- as you know, we've had almost three plus four years of a downturn, right? And this is the digestion of the tremendous amount of inventory that was built up in '21, '22. So I think actually, this is almost back to a normal cycle, right? And it is the beginning of the recovery, which I think we've all been waiting for.

我覺得它仍然是智慧型手機和高效能電腦，對吧？我的意思是，這是一個循環往復的過程。我認為，很長一段時間以來，我們都經歷了——正如你所知，我們已經經歷了近三、四年的經濟衰退，對吧？這就是 2021 年、2022 年累積的大量庫存的消化過程。所以我覺得，這實際上幾乎已經恢復正常週期了，對吧？這是復甦的開始，我想我們所有人都在等待這一刻的到來。

Okay. And then lastly, I think you did mention in prepared remarks that we're not yet seeing any signs of uplift from the auto and industrial market. But as you talk to customers in those end markets, are you getting any indication that they could begin to see an upturn sometime in the first half of calendar '26? Or is it still just very low visibility and an absence of any signs of improvement?

好的。最後，我想您在事先準備好的演講稿中也提到過，我們目前還沒有看到汽車和工業市場出現任何復甦跡象。但是，當你與這些終端市場的客戶交談時，你是否得到任何跡象表明，他們可能會在 2026 年上半年開始看到市場回升？或者，目前能見度仍然很低，沒有任何好轉的跡象？

So Craig, I think when we talk to customers, we actually get a sense of optimism, right? I think while there is still a little bit of headwinds, it's definitely improved significantly. And we expect our auto industrial revenue to increase sequentially in Q1 from Q4, right?

所以克雷格，我覺得當我們與客戶交談時，我們實際上會感受到一種樂觀情緒，對吧？我認為雖然仍然存在一些不利因素，但情況肯定已經有了顯著改善。我們預計第一季汽車工業收入將比第四季環比成長，對嗎？

And then I think going forward, we do see -- it's lagging general semi and memory a little bit, but we do see it coming back, right, particularly maybe our customers in Southeast Asia as well as in China. So -- and one thing I think, Craig, as you know, we are sort of involved in sort of a technology transition on power semi, which is basically, again, for cleantech as well as for EV. So I think with all those factors, we definitely think FY26 will be a much better year for auto industrial.

然後我認為展望未來，我們確實看到——它比通用半導體和記憶體稍微落後一些，但我們確實看到它正在復蘇，對吧，特別是我們在東南亞和中國的客戶。所以——還有一件事，克雷格，正如你所知，我們正在參與電動拖車的技術轉型，這基本上既是為了清潔技術，也是為了電動車。所以我認為，綜合所有這些因素，我們絕對認為2026財年對於汽車工業來說將會是好得多的一年。

That's really helpful, Lester. Thank you.

萊斯特，這真的很有幫助。謝謝。

Thank you, Craig.

謝謝你，克雷格。

Thank you. At this time, I would like to turn the floor back over to Mr. Elgindy for closing comments.

謝謝。此時，我想把發言權交還給艾爾金迪先生，請他作總結發言。

Thank you, Donna, and thank you all for joining today's call. Over the months, we'll be participating at conferences in New York and Phoenix. As always, please feel free to follow up directly with any additional questions. This concludes today's call. Have a great day, everyone.

謝謝唐娜，也謝謝各位參加今天的電話會議。接下來的幾個月裡，我們將參加在紐約和鳳凰城舉行的會議。如有任何疑問，歡迎隨時直接與我們聯繫。今天的電話會議到此結束。祝大家今天過得愉快。

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines or log off the webcast. Have a wonderful day.

女士們、先生們，感謝各位的參與。現在您可以斷開線路或退出網路直播。祝您有美好的一天。