庫力索法 (KLIC) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to the Q3 2025 quarter results. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Joe Elgindy. Thank you. You may begin.

大家好，歡迎來到 2025 年第三季業績報告。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。現在我很高興介紹您的主持人喬·埃爾金迪 (Joe Elgindy)。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Welcome, everyone, to Kulicke and Soffa's fiscal third-quarter 2025 conference call. Fusen Chen, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Lester Wong, Chief Financial Officer, are also joining on today's call.

歡迎大家參加 Kulicke 和 Soffa 2025 財年第三季電話會議。總裁兼執行長陳福森 (Fusen Chen) 和財務長 Lester Wong 也將參加今天的電話會議。

Non-GAAP financial measures referenced today should be considered in addition to, not as a substitute for or in isolation from our GAAP financial information. GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliation tables are included within our latest earnings release and earnings presentation. Both are available at investor.kns.com along with prepared remarks for today's call.

今天引用的非 GAAP 財務指標應被視為對我們的 GAAP 財務資訊的補充，而不是替代或孤立。我們最新的收益報告和收益報告中包含了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 的對帳表。這兩份報告以及今天電話會議的準備好的發言稿均可在 investor.kns.com 上查閱。

In addition to historical statements, today's remarks will contain statements relating to future events and our future results. These statements are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause our actual results and financial condition to differ materially from the statements made today.

除了歷史陳述之外，今天的評論還將包含與未來事件和我們未來結果有關的陳述。這些聲明是 1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案所定義的前瞻性聲明，受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致我們的實際結果和財務狀況與今天的聲明有重大差異。

For a complete discussion of the risks associated with Kulicke and Soffa that could affect our future results and financial condition, please refer to our latest Form 10-K and upcoming SEC filings for additional information. With that said, I would now like to turn the call over to Fusen Chen for the business overview. Please go ahead, Fusen.

有關可能影響我們未來業績和財務狀況的 Kulicke 和 Soffa 相關風險的完整討論，請參閱我們最新的 10-K 表格和即將向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件以獲取更多資訊。話雖如此，我現在想將電話轉給陳福森，請他概述一下業務狀況。請繼續，Fusen。

Thank you, Joe. Good morning, everyone. Over the coming quarters, we remain focused on extending our market access through ongoing technology transitions, and we continue to be encouraged by gradual core-market improvement.

謝謝你，喬。大家早安。在接下來的幾個季度中，我們將繼續專注於透過持續的技術轉型來擴大我們的市場准入，並繼續受到核心市場逐步改善的鼓舞。

As discussed last quarter, uncertainty around global trade has clouded near-term industry visibility, although we continue to see steady core market improvement as expected. We do not expect near-term trade dynamics to materially affect our global business operations, although they do create additional uncertainty in customers’ near-term capacity planning decisions.

正如上個季度所討論的那樣，儘管我們繼續看到核心市場如預期般穩步改善，但全球貿易的不確定性給近期行業前景蒙上了陰影。我們預計近期貿易動態不會對我們的全球業務營運產生重大影響，儘管它們確實會為客戶的近期產能規劃決策帶來額外的不確定性。

Despite this near-term headwind, we continue to remain cautiously optimistic, as we continue to see ball bonder utilization improve in key regions. We also continue to work very closely with customers to support technology transitions within Advanced Dispense, Vertical Wire, and Thermo-Compression Bonding, or TCB, which I will provide an update on shortly.

儘管近期面臨不利因素，我們仍然保持謹慎樂觀的態度，因為我們看到球焊機的利用率在關鍵地區不斷提高。我們也繼續與客戶密切合作，支援高級分配、垂直線和熱壓黏合（TCB）內的技術轉型，我很快就會提供最新資訊。

For the June quarter, we generated revenue of $148.4 million, GAAP loss per share of $0.06 and non-GAAP earnings per share of $0.07. Our focus on efficiency, customer engagement and execution, has allowed us to exceed expectations. Lester will provide an update on financial performance and outlook shortly. As expected, the sequential revenue reduction into the June quarter was largely driven by order hesitation within the

截至6月當季，我們的營收為1.484億美元，GAAP每股虧損0.06美元，非GAAP每股收益0.07美元。我們注重效率、客戶參與和執行力，這讓我們的表現超乎預期。萊斯特將很快提供有關財務業績和前景的最新資訊。正如預期的那樣，6 月季度收入的環比下降主要是由於訂單猶豫所致。

Automotive and industrial markets. We mentioned last quarter this was focused uniquely with certain customers’ production facilities in Southeast Asia, and we anticipate it will persist through the September quarter. We anticipate this softness is largely driven by trade uncertainty, is broadly affecting global automotive and industrial supply chains and will create a slight headwind over the coming quarters. Regardless, this key market is supported by ongoing technology transitions and above average growth rates.

汽車和工業市場。我們上個季度提到，這主要集中在東南亞某些客戶的生產設施上，我們預計這種情況將持續到九月季度。我們預計，這種疲軟主要是由貿易不確定性造成的，廣泛影響全球汽車和工業供應鏈，並將在未來幾季帶來輕微阻力。無論如何，這個關鍵市場受到持續的技術轉型和高於平均水平的成長率的支持。

Despite the near-term, automotive-driven technology transitions provide a long-term set of growing opportunities. For example, EV charging infrastructure is driving new equipment opportunities and we anticipate charging related infrastructure will exceed a 20% CAGR over the next five years. Additionally, this ongoing growth is also driving the need for smarter and more efficient power-semiconductor applications which we are addressing with our growing base of pin welding, advanced dispense and clip-attach solutions.

儘管短期內如此，但汽車驅動的技術轉型提供了一系列長期的成長機會。例如，電動車充電基礎設施正在推動新的設備機遇，我們預計未來五年充電相關基礎設施的複合年增長率將超過 20%。此外，這種持續的成長也推動了對更智慧、更有效率的功率半導體應用的需求，我們正在透過不斷增長的針焊、先進的分配和夾式連接解決方案來滿足這一需求。

Similar to automotive and industrial, but less pronounced, order hesitation was also apparent within the General Semiconductor end market during the June quarter. More recently, we are encouraged by seasonal and cyclical dynamics, which are improving ball bonder utilization within core regions and we anticipate both leading and high-volume markets to improve through the September quarter. We remain very focused on both core market recovery and also new product momentum.

與汽車和工業類似，但不那麼明顯，6 月通用半導體終端市場也出現了訂單猶豫的情況。最近，我們受到季節性和週期性動態的鼓舞，這些動態正在提高核心區域的球焊機利用率，我們預計領先市場和大量市場都將在九月季度得到改善。我們仍然高度關注核心市場的復甦和新產品的發展勢頭。

We also experienced strong sequential demand increase in memory and are encouraged by improving conditions, recent pricing dynamics, and emerging packaging formats. We continue to be focused on driving share gains and expanding our reach into DRAM applications, by enabling new packaging capabilities in high-volume with our vertical wire solution and within leading-edge applications in future versions of HBM.

我們也經歷了記憶體需求的強勁連續成長，並受到改善的條件、最近的定價動態和新興的封裝格式的鼓舞。我們將繼續專注於推動市場份額成長並擴大我們在 DRAM 應用領域的影響力，透過利用我們的垂直線解決方案實現大量的新封裝能力以及在未來版本的 HBM 中的前沿應用。

Next, I’d like to provide a brief status update on broader technology transitions we are addressing through our Advanced Dispense, Vertical Wire and TCB portfolio.

接下來，我想簡要介紹我們透過 Advanced Dispense、Vertical Wire 和 TCB 產品組合解決的更廣泛的技術轉型的最新情況。

First, with Advanced Dispense, we are continuing to seed opportunities across key customers and end markets, while maintaining an aggressive product development pipeline. We have received initial POs from an automotive OEM, several IDMs and multiple OSATs, which highlights the broad diversity of our solutions.

首先，透過 Advanced Dispense，我們將繼續在主要客戶和終端市場中尋找機會，同時保持積極的產品開發管道。我們已收到來自汽車 OEM、多家 IDM 和多家 OSAT 的初始採購訂單，這凸顯了我們解決方案的多樣性。

The need for higher-precision and more capable dispense systems is broadening across end markets. We look forward to expanding our portfolio to support these needs and we plan to introduce new Advanced Dispense capabilities in September, at Semicon Taiwan.

終端市場對更高精度、更高效能分配系統的需求正在不斷擴大。我們期待擴大我們的產品組合來滿足這些需求，並計劃於 9 月在台灣國際半導體展上推出新的高級分配功能。

Next, within Vertical Wire, market expectations remain on track. We continue to plan for initial higher-volume production to begin in fiscal 2026, driven initially by an exciting, technology transition within the memory market. Emerging on-device AI applications are demanding higher-bandwidth. This market need is driving demand for transistordense, vertically-stacked, low-power dynamic memory. We have observed market references such as mobile HBM, energy-efficient HBM, or low power wide I/O LPWIO DRAM applications which describe this new opportunity.

其次，在 Vertical Wire 內部，市場預期仍保持在正軌上。我們繼續計劃在 2026 財年開始進行初始大批量生產，這最初是由記憶體市場內令人興奮的技術轉型所推動的。新興的設備 AI 應用需要更高的頻寬。這種市場需求正在推動對電晶體密集、垂直堆疊、低功耗動態記憶體的需求。我們已經觀察到市場參考，例如行動 HBM、節能 HBM 或低功耗寬 I/O LPWIO DRAM 應用，它們描述了這一新機會。

This new format of low-power HBM is anticipated to increase bandwidth by 3 to 4 times over existing low-power DRAM. Vertical wire interconnects are enabling an alternative, more cost-effective production process for these lower-power HBM applications. As a reminder, higher-power, data-center HBM utilizes more costly through-silicon-via die and ThermoCompression-based assembly.

這種新型低功耗 HBM 格式預計將使頻寬比現有的低功耗 DRAM 提高 3 到 4 倍。垂直線互連為這些低功耗 HBM 應用提供了一種替代的、更具成本效益的生產流程。提醒一下，更高功率的資料中心 HBM 採用更昂貴的矽通孔晶片和基於熱壓的組裝。

We anticipate this new vertical wire based HBM will be adopted in broader DRAM applications and eventually support higher transistor-density requirements across broader general semiconductor applications. Finally, within TCB, we continue to focus on many different applications for both logic and memory.

我們預計這種基於垂直線的新型 HBM 將在更廣泛的 DRAM 應用中得到採用，並最終支援更廣泛的通用半導體應用中更高的電晶體密度要求。最後，在 TCB 內部，我們繼續關注邏輯和記憶體的許多不同應用。

Our Fluxless Thermo-Compression, or FTC, solution continues to be best-in-class, and is increasingly positioned to seamlessly integrate into a variety of applications and customer production flows. We have recently demonstrated new physical and chemical-based in-line material preparation capabilities which further extends our leading FTC process.

我們的無焊劑熱壓 (FTC) 解決方案繼續保持同類最佳水平，並且越來越能夠無縫整合到各種應用和客戶生產流程中。我們最近展示了新的基於物理和化學的線上材料製備能力，這進一步擴展了我們領先的 FTC 製程。

We are very proud of how our existing chemical-based solutions have performed, which have enabled us to lead the initial market transition to fluxless. This solution has allowed us to be first to high-volume production and we are currently supporting multiple logic customers in mass production.

我們對現有的基於化學的解決方案的表現感到非常自豪，這使我們能夠引領向無助焊劑的初始市場轉型。該解決方案使我們率先實現大批量生產，目前我們正在支援多個邏輯客戶的大量生產。

With that said, we are now pleased to offer a tailored mix of physical and chemical-based processes, within one solution, to best suit the widest variety of customer process flows and market applications, by adding in-line die and wafer preparation capabilities to our leading chemical-based process.

話雖如此，我們現在很高興能夠在一個解決方案中提供量身定制的物理和化學工藝組合，透過在我們領先的化學工藝中添加線上晶片和晶圓製備能力，以最適合最廣泛的客戶工藝流程和市場應用。

Initial customer feedback has been positive, and we expect these new capabilities to be a market enabler which lowers barriers to entry as customers initiate new production, or expand their FTC capabilities. In addition to these new FTC solutions, we have also made progress within the high-power HBM market.

最初客戶的回饋是正面的，我們預計這些新功能將成為市場推動力，在客戶啟動新產品或擴展其 FTC 功能時降低進入門檻。除了這些新的 FTC 解決方案之外，我們還在高功率 HBM 市場取得了進展。

We now expect to ship an initial FTC system, by the end of calendar year 2025, to support the anticipated fluxless transition within the HBM space. As we increase focus on emerging memory opportunities, we are confident our proven leadership in driving FTC adoption within leading-edge logic applications, provides a unique advantage to support leading memory applications as they transition to finer-pitch, FTC-based assembly.

我們現在預計在 2025 年底之前推出初始 FTC 系統，以支援 HBM 領域內預期的無通量過渡。隨著我們越來越關注新興的記憶體機會，我們相信，我們在推動前沿邏輯應用中 FTC 的採用方面已證明的領導地位，為支援領先的記憶體應用向更細間距、基於 FTC 的組裝過渡提供了獨特的優勢。

We are confident we have the most robust and capable solution for leading-edge Thermo-Compression applications and remain positive on our engagements, recent progress and long-term roadmap of this highly capable technology. We expect FTC solutions will outpace overall TCB growth, allowing us to extend our market share over the coming years, within both memory and logic markets.

我們相信，我們擁有針對尖端熱壓縮應用的最強大、最強大的解決方案，並且我們對這項高效能技術的投入、最新進展和長期發展路線圖保持樂觀。我們預計 FTC 解決方案將超過整體 TCB 的成長，使我們能夠在未來幾年內擴大在記憶體和邏輯市場的市場份額。

In summary, we continue to expand our market presence on multiple fronts, and remain cautiously optimistic, as key regions and end markets show signs of cyclical improvement. While automotive headwinds are anticipated to linger into the September quarter, general semiconductor capacity digestion and expansion, driven by China and Taiwan, as well as memory technology transitions and pricing improvements are increasing our confidence in the outlook.

綜上所述，我們繼續在多個方面擴大我們的市場份額，並保持謹慎樂觀的態度，因為主要地區和終端市場顯示出週期性改善的跡象。雖然預計汽車產業的逆風將持續到9月份季度，但由中國大陸和台灣推動的整體半導體產能消化和擴張，以及記憶體技術的轉型和價格改善，正在增強我們對前景的信心。

It continues to be a unique time in semiconductor assembly, with a wide set of opportunities to be addressed. I look forward to updating our progress over the coming quarters and will now turn the call over to Lester to discuss the financials and outlook.

現在仍然是半導體組裝領域一個獨特的時期，有大量的機會有待解決。我期待在未來幾季更新我們的進展，現在將電話轉給萊斯特討論財務狀況和前景。

Thank you, Fusen. My remarks today will refer to GAAP results unless noted. Despite uncertainty regarding macro dynamics, we delivered revenue above guidance, continue to execute on those customer engagements and maintain an ongoing focus on cost control. Gross margin came in at 46.7%, and we delivered $0.07 of non-GAAP earnings per share. Total operating expense came in at $75.3 million on a GAAP basis and $68 million on a non-GAAP basis.

謝謝你，Fusen。除非另有說明，我今天的發言將參考 GAAP 結果。儘管宏觀動態存在不確定性，但我們的收入仍高於預期，繼續履行客戶承諾，並持續專注於成本控制。毛利率達 46.7%，非公認會計準則每股收益為 0.07 美元。根據 GAAP 計算，總營運費用為 7,530 萬美元，根據非 GAAP 計算，總營運費用為 6,800 萬美元。

Tax expense came in at $3.2 million, and we continue to anticipate our effective tax rate will remain above 20% over the near term. We are also positive on recent US tax law changes and are in the process of evaluating the future impact on our tax rate. We have continued to opportunistically reduce shares outstanding by repurchasing approximately 668,000 shares equivalent to 1.3% of diluted shares during the June quarter.

稅費為 320 萬美元，我們預計短期內有效稅率仍將維持在 20% 以上。我們也對最近美國稅法的變化持樂觀態度，並且正在評估其對我們稅率的未來影響。我們繼續抓住機會減少流通股，在六月季度回購了約 668,000 股，相當於稀釋股份的 1.3%。

Since the first fiscal quarter of 2024, we have taken a more aggressive approach to delivering shareholder value directly. Over this seven-quarter period, we deployed over $270 million in dividend payments and open market repurchase activities. This has allowed us to repurchase over 5 million shares, nearly 10% of shares outstanding and currently offer a best-in-class dividend yield above 2%.

自 2024 年第一財季以來，我們採取了更積極的方式直接為股東創造價值。在這七個季度中，我們部署了超過 2.7 億美元的股息支付和公開市場回購活動。這使我們能夠回購超過 500 萬股股票，佔流通股的近 10%，目前提供超過 2% 的最佳股息收益率。

Looking ahead, as Fusen mentioned, we are more positive on key end market improvements in general semiconductor and memory supported by renal utilization and pricing improvements. Automotive and industrial headwinds will likely persist over the coming months, although, we anticipate this softness to be short term. For the September quarter, revenue is expected to increase by approximately 15% sequentially to $170 million, with gross margins at 47%. Non-GAAP operating expenses are expected to be $68 million with GAAP earnings per share targeted to be $0.08 and non-GAAP earnings per share of $0.22.

展望未來，正如 Fusen 所提到的，我們對通用半導體和記憶體的關鍵終端市場在腎臟利用率和價格改善的支持下取得的改善持更樂觀的態度。未來幾個月，汽車和工業領域的逆風可能會持續存在，儘管我們預計這種疲軟將是短期的。9 月當季營收預計季增約 15% 至 1.7 億美元，毛利率為 47%。非公認會計準則營運費用預計為 6,800 萬美元，公認會計準則每股收益目標為 0.08 美元，非公認會計準則每股收益目標為 0.22 美元。

We are very focused to exit from this extended period a leaner and more growth-oriented organization. Today, we are either an incumbent leader or are aggressively taking significant market share in every key market serve. We continue to ensure our highest potential opportunities are adequately resourced and our customer development efforts are on a positive trajectory. Although we remain cautiously optimistic as we look into fiscal 2026, end market visibility remains unclear.

我們非常注重在這段延長的時期結束後建立一個更精簡、更注重成長的組織。今天，我們要么是現任領導者，要么正在積極佔領每個關鍵市場的顯著市場份額。我們將繼續確保我們最具潛力的機會獲得充足的資源，並且我們的客戶開發工作能夠朝著積極的方向發展。儘管我們對 2026 財年保持謹慎樂觀的態度，但終端市場可見度仍不明朗。

We continue to anticipate gradual recovery, some potential minor seasonality anticipated in the December quarter. We look forward to demonstrating progress on vertical wire, advanced dispense and thermal compression opportunities as we prepare for the broader core market recovery. K&S is very focused on executing our strategic priorities. We are confident with our capabilities and technology leadership, and we remain well prepared to navigate the near-term macro environment. This concludes our prepared comments.

我們繼續預期經濟將逐步復甦，預計 12 月季度可能會出現一些輕微的季節性因素。我們期待在垂直線、先進分配和熱壓縮機會方面取得進展，為更廣泛的核心市場復甦做好準備。K&S 非常注重執行我們的策略重點。我們對自己的能力和技術領先地位充滿信心，並且我們已做好充分準備來應對近期的宏觀環境。我們的準備評論到此結束。

Operator, please open the call for questions.

接線員，請打開電話詢問。

(Operator Instructions) Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

（操作員指示） Krish Sankar，TD Cowen。

Nice to see sequential revenue improvement. I had three questions, Fusen or Lester Number one, I think you kind of mentioned about FY26 gradual recovery, minus seasonality. So is it fair as you December quarter revenues have to be down sequentially? And then grow from there, but are we going to be bouncing around these $170 million level for a few quarters or how to think about it?

很高興看到收入連續增長。我有三個問題，Fusen 或 Lester 第一，我認為您提到了 FY26 的逐步復甦，減去季節性。那麼，這公平嗎？因為 12 月季度的營收必須連續下降嗎？然後從那裡開始成長，但我們是否會在幾個季度內保持在 1.7 億美元的水平附近波動，或者如何看待它？

You asked three questions, so we do it one by one. So first question is, I think at this moment, the industry utilization rate is quite healthy. Actually, it's a benefit improvement the general semiconductor -- and the memory, I think it's also quite strong. But we're still facing the ongoing headwind in the automotive.

你問了三個問題，所以我們一一解答。所以第一個問題是，我認為目前產業利用率相當健康。實際上，這對通用半導體和記憶體來說是一個有益的改進，我認為它也相當強大。但我們在汽車領域仍面臨持續的逆風。

The Q3 revenue we just published, and we got $170 million for Q4. And in our review, we do believe probably Q1 of first half always is weaker. But because we have high integration, right now, we triathink, Q1 of '26 will be flat, fresh I hope I answer your questions.

我們剛剛公佈了第三季的收入，第四季的收入為 1.7 億美元。在我們的回顧中，我們確實認為上半年第一季可能總是比較弱。但因為我們具有高度的整合度，所以現在，我們經過三思，26 年第一季將會持平，我希望我能夠回答您的問題。

And for the '26, again, '26, we do believe it's in a better cyclical position with a potential significant improvement in the industry iteration rate and affordable bonder. We also have new product -- a three new product, for example, clip attach we won other, this is for the wagon family for hypo semiconductor. We also have improvement of advanced expense vertical wire and TV growth, our TCV growth was due to industry future technology transition and potential -- so we do believe probably first half of 2016 will be flat to Q4 of our '25 in -- and this industry already have a downturn facing our third quarter. So we do believe Q3 and Q4 will be up. So I hope I answer your questions.

對於 26 年，我們確實相信它處於更好的周期性位置，行業迭代率和可負擔得起的黏合劑可能會有顯著的改善。我們還有新產品——三種新產品，例如，我們贏得的其他夾子配件，這是用於海波半導體的貨車系列。我們的高級費用垂直有線和電視增長也有所改善，我們的 TCV 增長歸因於行業未來的技術轉型和潛力 - 因此我們確實相信 2016 年上半年可能會與 2025 年第四季度持平 - 並且該行業在第三季度已經面臨低迷。因此我們確實相信第三季和第四季將會上升。所以我希望我能回答你的問題。

Yes. That was very helpful, Fusen. So around $170 million for the next couple of quarters. I had some other quick questions. The second one is, I'm just kind of curious how to think about the impact of Intel CapEx cuts because you do have some pretty good fluxes position there, some of the copper to copper, et cetera.

是的。這非常有幫助，Fusen。因此未來幾季的營收約為 1.7 億美元。我還有一些其他的快速問題。第二個問題是，我只是有點好奇如何看待英特爾資本支出削減的影響，因為你確實在那裡有一些相當不錯的通量位置，一些銅對銅等等。

So I'm just wondering, is that a headwind? Or have you seen any progress there? Or do you think that potential opportunity in the future for SPC is probably minimized with Intel? And then I have one last follow-up.

所以我只是想知道，這是逆風嗎？或者您看到那裡有任何進展嗎？或者您認為，在英特爾的推動下，SPC 未來的潛在機會可能會被最小化？然後我還有最後一個後續問題。

Okay. I think the engagements are still quite healthy, but I can only answer of course, the revenue compared to previous year will be down. So that's all I can say.

好的。我認為業務量仍然相當健康，但我當然只能回答，與去年相比收入會下降。這就是我所能說的。

Got it. Got it. And the last final question, you said you're going to be shipping TCB or HBM end of this calendar year. Is this for HBM whole or is this one customer or how to think about it? .

知道了。知道了。最後一個問題，您說過您將在今年年底推出 TCB 或 HBM。這是針對 HBM 整體還是針對某個客戶，或者如何考慮？。

Okay. We do believe the next version of HBM is going to be fractile important now. So currently, I think we have two customers. We are working with, but one of the customers, I think we will intend to system in calendar year, 25%.

好的。我們確實相信下一個版本的 HBM 將會非常重要。所以目前，我認為我們有兩個客戶。我們正在與其中一位客戶合作，我認為我們打算在日曆年內將系統提升 25%。

Tom Diffely, D.A. Davidson.

湯姆·迪菲利、D.A.戴維森。

Yes. Curious, what are the utilization rates this quarter at your kind of core customers -- and then what are the areas that's driving this incremental quarter-over-quarter here in the fiscal fourth quarter?

是的。好奇的是，本季你們的核心客戶的使用率是多少？在第四財季，哪些領域推動了這一季度的環比成長？

Tom, it's Lester. So utilization rate overall is about 81%. I think in the end markets, general semi is around 83% -- memory is -- we see growth in utilization in all the major end markets. Even although even though auto is still quite soft, utilization is below 70% there.

湯姆，我是萊斯特。因此總體利用率約為81%。我認為在終端市場，通用半導體（記憶體）的利用率約為 83%，我們看到所有主要終端市場的利用率都在成長。儘管汽車市場仍然相當疲軟，但利用率仍低於 70%。

But as far as what's driving it, it's basically general semi as well as memory. They've shown some -- they're the highest rising utilization rate. So I think that's basically is driving a particular general semi our sequential growth in the revenues.

但就其驅動因素而言，它基本上是通用半導體和記憶體。他們已經展示了一些——他們的利用率上升幅度最高。所以我認為這基本上推動了特定通用半導體收入的連續成長。

Great. And then, Fusen, I was hoping you could just dig a little deeper into the thermal compression business. How big was it historically with Flex less and going into memory going forward, how big could it be a year or two down the road?

偉大的。然後，Fusen，我希望您能夠更深入地了解熱壓縮業務。從歷史上看，隨著 Flex 的減少和內存的增加，它的大小會有多大？一兩年後它會有多大？

Okay. So actually, I will repeat 3 times already this year, previous quarter, we target a 25% as shipping. We are talking about 60 to 70 million -- and next year, I think originally, we target $100 million. But with a fluctuate transition, and we real hard on actually and we believe we will have some upside -- but as the market grows, our target, actually, the memory market actually is higher, bigger than not right now. We intend -- we think the market will reach about $1 billion.

好的。因此實際上，今年我已經重複三次了，上一季度，我們的目標是 25% 作為運輸率。我們談論的是 6,000 萬到 7,000 萬美元——而明年，我認為最初的目標是 1 億美元。但隨著波動的轉變，我們實際上非常努力，我們相信我們會有一些好處 - 但隨著市場的成長，我們的目標，實際上，記憶體市場實際上比現在更高，更大。我們的意圖是——我們認為市場規模將達到約 10 億美元。

We actually plan -- we have a plan and target about $250 million to $300 million in 2028. We believe at that time, the market will have size of about $900 to $1 billion.

我們實際上有計劃——我們有一個計劃，目標是到 2028 年達到約 2.5 億至 3 億美元。我們相信，屆時市場規模將達到約 9 億至 10 億美元。

Okay. And is the main advantage here on the cost side? You mentioned that obviously, you don't do three silicon Viteos with this technology. So is it really for lower-cost applications where you are benefiting the customer? Or is there a technology advantage as well?

好的。這裡的主要優勢是在成本方面嗎？您提到，顯然您不會使用這項技術來製作三矽片 Viteos。那麼，它真的適合那些能為客戶帶來好處的低成本應用嗎？或者說也存在技術優勢嗎？

I think it's really technology. we actually start with chemical based, they are two technology. And we are the leader. Actually, we can tell you -- at this moment, all the high-volume production production, high volume, actually, we are the only technology in eye volume production. And as you mentioned -- as I mentioned in my script, we are adding more capability. So we are quite positive about the transition to our process. We are number one, and we intend to capture big market and after focus in larger. We will focus on it all, as well as the HBM from here.

我認為這確實是技術。我們實際上是從化學基礎開始的，它們是兩種技術。我們是領導者。實際上，我們可以告訴你——目前，所有的大量生產，大批量，實際上，我們是唯一能夠實現大量生產的技術。正如您所提到的 - 正如我在腳本中提到的，我們正在增加更多功能。因此，我們對流程的轉變非常樂觀。我們是第一，我們打算佔領大市場，然後再專注於更大的市場。我們將重點關注這一切，以及這裡的 HBM。

Charles Shi, Needham & Company.

Charles Shi，Needham & Company。

Susan, Lester. First one, I want to get buses, your soft guidance December quarter, meaning you don't have an official guide, but you did provide the direction. So the December quarter, how do I think about that the a confidence level you have? Like is it -- you're basically guiding December maybe flattish -- is it the base stock orders on hand? Or how should I -- is it based on forecast, maybe you don't have all the orders on hand, but that may be coming along nicely. I want to gauge a little bit of confidence there.

蘇珊，萊斯特。第一個問題，我想了解你們 12 月季度的軟指導，這意味著你們沒有官方指南，但你們確實提供了方向。那麼，對於 12 月季度，我如何看待您的信心程度？就像這樣——你基本上預測 12 月可能會持平——這是手頭上的基本庫存訂單嗎？或者我應該怎麼做——是否基於預測，也許您手頭上沒有所有的訂單，但進展可能會很順利。我想衡量一下那裡的信心。

Charles, this is Lester. So it's a combination of the things you mentioned, right? I mean, Susan and I already mentioned earlier about the utilization rates being quite high, right? And I think over the last couple of quarters -- we've seen utilization rate at a healthy level and it's increasing. Obviously, in normalized times, there would have been a ramped.

查爾斯，這是萊斯特。所以這是您提到的事物的組合，對嗎？我的意思是，蘇珊和我之前已經提到過利用率相當高，對吧？我認為在過去幾個季度中，我們看到利用率處於健康水平並且還在上升。顯然，在正常時期，這種情況會加劇。

But again, as we have mentioned several times, the tariffs are kind of creating a little bit of hesitation in our customer supply chain. As far as our confidence on why we think that again, we're not guiding.

但正如我們多次提到的那樣，關稅在某種程度上給我們的客戶供應鏈帶來了一些猶豫。至於我們為什麼再次這麼想，我們並沒有給予指導。

But as Fusen said, we think December quarter will be flat to our Q4, which is the time quarter. The reason is, yes, we do see higher order intake coming in. We do see a lot more increase from customers -- and we're seeing, again, recovery in both end markets as well as regions that were a little slow over the last couple of quarters, right? So I think a combination of all those things makes us think that even with again, usually December quarter, we have a little bit of seasonality, but we believe that all these factors, it should be, again, relatively flat from the September quarter.

但正如 Fusen 所說，我們認為 12 月季度將與第四季（即時間季度）持平。原因是，是的，我們確實看到了更高的訂單量。我們確實看到客戶數量大幅增加——而且我們再次看到終端市場以及過去幾季增長緩慢的地區都在復蘇，對嗎？因此，我認為，所有這些因素的綜合作用使我們認為，即使通常是 12 月季度，我們也會受到一點季節性的影響，但我們相信，考慮到所有這些因素，它應該與 9 月季度相比相對持平。

Maybe a second question. I want to ask a little bit more about the -- maybe this is more about technology. So Fusen, I think you mentioned about preparation, physical or chemical preparation. But kind of want to ask you what that means? Is it to preparation or it's a separate tool.

也許是第二個問題。我想多問一點——也許這更多的是關於技術。那麼 Fusen，我認為您提到了準備，物理或化學準備。但有點想問你這是什麼意思？它是用於準備還是作為單獨的工具。

And I think related to that, there has been a debate on PCB, the two approaches, the chemical approach, which is the approach you guys have on the plasma approach. So are you by saying physical preparation, are you talking more about the plasma approach you're developing? Or what is that? And on HBM High bandwidth memory, which technology you're proposing or you're going to evaluate with customers?

我認為與此相關的是，關於 PCB 的論點一直存在，有兩種方法，一種是化學方法，另一種是你們採用的等離子方法。那麼，您所說的身體準備是指您正在開發的等離子體方法嗎？或者那是什麼？關於 HBM 高頻寬內存，您建議採用哪種技術或將與客戶一起評估哪種技術？

So Charles, as I mentioned, the industry, we have customers, and they are all in production. And the whole industry, the only technology in high-volume production actually is a chemical base. So actually, we are very proud in all the customer side, we have the mix production actually is a chemical.

查爾斯，正如我所提到的，在這個行業中，我們有客戶，他們都在生產。而整個產業，唯一能實現大批量生產的技術其實就是化學基礎技術。因此實際上，我們對所有客戶都感到非常自豪，我們的混合生產實際上是一種化學物質。

So the -- to answer your question actually is -- we also developed a physical reportion technology. This is really very old technology partner prior art in a semiconductor fab. But actually, both technology actually have -- I'll give you an example. I think for the physical you need to think like soda AXA actually have a faster rate. But for the chemical, we are very confident. I think for the surface preparation especially interface. Interface integrity quality is the most important for the year.

所以——實際上回答你的問題是——我們還開發了一種實體報告技術。這確實是半導體工廠中非常古老的技術合作夥伴的現有技術。但實際上，這兩種技術其實都有──我給你舉個例子。我認為，就物質而言，你需要像蘇打水 AXA 那樣思考，實際上其速度更快。但對於化學品，我們非常有信心。我認為對於表面準備尤其是介面。接口完整性品質是年度最重要的。

We are strongly confident. I think the chemical line is the best -- so right now, to answer your question, we have capability. Actually, we have done it and demonstrated and get the feedback is positive. It's actually we do in situ altogether. Integrate all this capability together in the system. So we're doing that actually in our -- our customer is so convenient to easily enter their integration and enable us to actually fight for the market shares in very high chip on wafer, home substrate, and also, maybe in the future are also HBM.

我們充滿信心。我認為化學生產線是最好的——所以現在，回答你的問題，我們有能力。事實上，我們已經做到了，並進行了演示，並得到了積極的回饋。事實上，我們完全是在現場進行的。將所有這些功能整合到系統中。因此，我們實際上正在這樣做——我們的客戶可以非常方便地輕鬆進入他們的集成，並使我們能夠真正爭奪晶圓上晶片、主基板以及未來可能還有 HBM 的市場份額。

(Operator Instructions) Christian Schwab, Craig Hallum.

（操作員指示） Christian Schwab、Craig Hallum。

Great. Thanks for taking my question. Fusen, the -- at the end of the prepared comments, you talked about being well positioned taking market share. Can you elaborate on what products that you plan on gaining market share, auto, industrial, memory, et cetera? Just give a clear answer to that, please.

偉大的。感謝您回答我的問題。Fusen，在準備好的評論結束時，您談到瞭如何佔據有利地位以佔領市場份額。您能詳細說明一下您計劃在哪些產品上獲得市場份額嗎？汽車、工業、內存等等？請對此給出明確的答案。

So first one, I mentioned actually is a tech and also ping weather. This is in our wishbone, our family. This is especially for high-power semiconductor products, like -- this will be very important higher power semiconductor, will be very, very important to show the significant growth in the next many, many years.

因此，我首先提到的實際上是一項技術，還有 ping 天氣。這是我們、我們家的願望。這對於高功率半導體產品尤其如此，例如——這將是非常重要的高功率半導體，在未來許多年裡實現顯著成長將非常非常重要。

So the second one is advanced discipline solution. Discipline actually is quite a big market. It's like $1 billion to $2 billion. And we are focused on precision dispense actually, three years ago, we acquired a company, and we do believe technology is differentiated and has a micro dispensing capability with the in-night inspection and also have a good availability, right?

第二個是高階學科解決方案。紀律其實是一個相當大的市場。大約是 10 億到 20 億美元。實際上，我們專注於精密分配，三年前，我們收購了一家公司，我們確實相信技術是差異化的，並且具有夜間檢查的微分配能力，並且具有良好的可用性，對嗎？

And we put this one actually is in the government platform of our company common platform. So we do believe our cost is very competitive and have differentiated products. And we will show actually the growth next year over here. And then vertical wire, I think when we talk about bottle actually probably close to five, six quarters.

我們把這個其實是放在我們公司公共平台的政府平台裡面。因此我們確實相信我們的成本非常有競爭力並且擁有差異化的產品。我們將在這裡展示明年的實際成長情況。然後是垂直線，我認為當我們談論瓶子時實際上可能接近五、六個季度。

I think finally, this will take off. When I mentioned -- I mentioned this product will be implemented into DDR5, as beginning -- but when people do this and a lot of people is encouraged because it's a stick DRAM die. And the bandwidth actually not like a high-power HBM and have a much wider man width.

我認為最終這將會成功。當我提到——我提到這個產品將被納入 DDR5，作為開始——但是當人們這樣做時，很多人都受到鼓舞，因為它是一個棒狀 DRAM 晶片。並且頻寬實際上不像高功率 HBM，並且具有更寬的人眼寬度。

But this one can actually provide 3 to 4 times of bandwidth increase compared to current a -- and the last one I mentioned, I think the TCB, I see a lot of discussion, and we are quite focused, and we believe we can make traction on TCP.

但與目前相比，這個實際上可以提供 3 到 4 倍的頻寬增加 - 我提到的最後一個，我認為 TCB，我看到了很多討論，我們非常專注，我們相信我們可以在 TCP 上取得進展。

Thank you, and we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. And therefore, I'll turn the floor back to Joe Elgindy and for closing remarks.

謝謝，問答環節到此結束。因此，我將把發言權交還給喬·埃爾金迪並請他作最後發言。

Thank you, Shmail, and thank you all for joining today's call. Over the coming quarter, we'll be presenting at several conferences. As always, please feel free to follow up directly with any additional questions. This concludes today's call. Have a great day, everyone.

謝謝你，Shmail，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。在接下來的一個季度，我們將在幾場會議上發表演講。像往常一樣，如果您有任何其他問題，請隨時直接諮詢。今天的電話會議到此結束。祝大家有個愉快的一天。