庫力索法 (KLIC) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to Kulicke and Soffa's 2024 fourth quarter results earnings call.

大家好，歡迎參加 Kulicke 和 Soffa 的 2024 年第四季業績財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

（操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。

It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Joe Elgindy, Senior Director, Investor Relations.

現在我很高興向大家介紹主持人喬·埃爾金迪 (Joe Elgindy)，他是投資者關係高級總監。

Thank you.

謝謝。

You may begin.

你可以開始了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Welcome, everyone, to Kulicke and Soffa's fiscal fourth quarter 2024 conference call.

歡迎大家參加 Kulicke 和 Soffa 的 2024 年第四財季電話會議。

Fusen Chen, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Lester Wong, Chief Financial Officer, are also joining on today's call.

陳福森，總裁兼執行長；和財務長 Lester Wong 也參加了今天的電話會議。

Non-GAAP financial measures referenced today should be considered in addition to not as a substitute for or in isolation from our GAAP financial information.

除了無法取代或獨立於我們的 GAAP 財務資訊之外，還應考慮今天引用的非 GAAP 財務指標。

GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliation tables are included within the latest earnings release and earnings presentation, both are available at investor.kns.com, along with prepared remarks for today's call.

GAAP 與非 GAAP 調節表包含在最新的收益發布和收益演示中，兩者均可在 Investor.kns.com 上獲取，並附有為今天的電話會議準備的評論。

In addition to historical statements, today's remarks will contain statements relating to future events and our results.

除了歷史陳述之外，今天的演講還將包含與未來事件和我們的結果有關的陳述。

These statements are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause our results and financial conditions to differ materially from the statements made today.

這些陳述屬於 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的前瞻性陳述，並受到風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致我們的結果和財務狀況與今天的陳述有重大差異。

For a complete discussion of the risks associated with Kulicke and Soffa that could affect our future results and financial condition, please refer to our recent and upcoming SEC filings, specifically the latest Form 10-K as well as the 8-K filed today.

有關可能影響我們未來業績和財務狀況的與 Kulicke 和 Soffa 相關的風險的完整討論，請參閱我們最近和即將提交的 SEC 文件，特別是最新的 10-K 表格以及今天提交的 8-K 表格。

With that said, I will now turn the call over Fusen Chen for the business overview.

話雖如此，我現在將電話轉給陳福森，以了解業務概況。

Please go ahead, Fusen.

請繼續，福森。

Thank you, Joe. Good afternoon, everyone.

謝謝你，喬。大家下午好。

Although some of our core market remain in a state of transition, we continue to anticipate a return to capacity growth in the core, both edge and the APS segment, through our fiscal 2025 as we continue to expand shares through technology transitions in advanced packaging and dispense.

儘管我們的一些核心市場仍處於轉型狀態，但我們仍然預計到 2025 財年，核心、邊緣和 APS 領域的產能將恢復成長，因為我們將繼續透過先進封裝和技術轉型來擴大份額。

Yesterday, we made several announcements regarding a high potential foundry win.

昨天，我們發布了幾項有關高潛力代工訂單的公告。

Our Copper First Hybrid Bonding Process, which we expect will reach 3-micron pitch and also an expansion of shareholders' return initiatives.

我們的銅優先混合鍵合製程預計將達到 3 微米間距，並擴大股東回報計畫。

Our leadership in fluxless thermo-compression, FTC, continue to grow.

我們在無焊劑熱壓縮 FTC 領域的領先地位不斷增強。

The collective effort by our advanced solutions' team and the execution across many parallel customer development program have allowed us to drive market adoption of this innovative process.

我們先進解決方案團隊的集體努力以及許多平行客戶開發計劃的執行使我們能夠推動此創新流程的市場採用。

This recent win represents significant milestone, which highlights market potentials, our system-level competitiveness and also on a broader reach that [CHIPS] and advanced packaging have on high volume more mature portion of semiconductor packaging.

最近的勝利代表著重要的里程碑，凸顯了市場潛力、我們的系統級競爭力，以及 [CHIPS] 和先進封裝在半導體封裝中大批量、更成熟部分的更廣泛影響力。

First, this milestone highlight that our FTC is a very competitive and compelling industry solution which is capable of directly supporting many different applications, including the world's most advanced logic and memory production, but also within other high-volume logic market, which are transitioning from the mature 3-chip process.

首先，這個里程碑凸顯了我們的FTC 是一個非常有競爭力和引人注​​目的產業解決方案，能夠直接支援許多不同的應用，包括世界上最先進的邏輯和記憶體生產，而且還包括其他大批量邏輯市場，這些市場正在從成熟的3晶片製程。

We are very proud of our innovations within TCB technology and also our strong foundational base of leading customers, which illustrate the current market need and the longer-term potential of this competitive technology.

我們對 TCB 技術領域的創新以及我們強大的領先客戶基礎感到非常自豪，這說明了當前的市場需求以及這項具有競爭力的技術的長期潛力。

Secondly, our current win and innovation highlights our leadership position in a technology transition.

其次，我們目前的勝利和創新凸顯了我們在技術轉型中的領導地位。

K&S is the first and the only provider fluxless system which are proven in the production event.

K&S 是第一個也是唯一一個在生產活動中得到驗證的無焊劑系統供應商。

Today, we have a global TCB installed base of over [100] system and are approaching $200 million cumulative TCB sales.

如今，我們在全球擁有超過 [100] 個系統的 TCB 安裝基礎，且 TCB 累積銷售額接近 2 億美元。

Of this installed base opportunity service systems are loaning FTC in either development or production environment across five major IDM, OSAT, and foundry customers.

在這些已安裝的基礎機會服務系統中，五家主要 IDM、OSAT 和代工客戶的開發或生產環境中都藉用了 FTC。

Maintaining this level of support across different emerging applications and customer location continue to be accomplished by our dedicated advanced solutions team.

我們專門的高級解決方案團隊繼續在不同的新興應用程式和客戶位置上維持這種水準的支援。

Cross-customer engagement have been essential in the development of our FTC platform, APTURA and provide the critical market insights which enable us to develop a very flexible and capable system architectures which can support a broad range of new packaging format.

跨客戶參與對於我們的 FTC 平台 APTURA 的開發至關重要，並提供了關鍵的市場洞察力，使我們能夠開發出非常靈活且功能強大的系統架構，該架構可以支援廣泛的新包裝格式。

While there are many different marketing economies to explain the growing mix of advanced packaging offering, such as on wafer, on substrate, on interposer, on IC, we have built a system which supports a wide variety of material handling configuration and is very capable of supporting the most advanced TCB requirement, whether chip-to-chip or chip-to-wafer.

雖然有許多不同的行銷經濟來解釋先進封裝產品組合的不斷增長，例如晶圓上、基板上、中介層上、IC上，但我們已經建立了一個支援各種材料處理配置的系統，並且非常有能力支援最先進的 TCB 要求，無論是晶片到晶片還是晶片到晶圓。

As a need for advanced 5-pitch FTC and the copper first hybrid growth, we expect our competitive position wanting to improve across high-performance applications.

由於對先進 5 節距 FTC 和銅優先混合生長的需求，我們預計我們的競爭地位希望在高性能應用中得到改善。

Finally, these announcements serve as a reminder that the future of semiconductor assembly will require new and increasingly more complex assembly solution that can provide greater transistor density at the package level.

最後，這些公告提醒人們，半導體組裝的未來將需要新的、日益複雜的組裝解決方案，可以在封裝層級提供更大的電晶體密度。

This growing need extends well beyond the most advanced process node.

這種不斷增長的需求遠遠超出了最先進的製程節點。

Emerging packaging technology provides a new level value increasingly necessary to offset the limitation of two-dimensional node shrink.

新興封裝技術提供了越來越有必要抵消二維節點縮小限制的新水準價值。

Today, our new product portfolio, including vertical wire, HPI, FTC, and Copper First, provide capable solution, well positioned to support packaging label transistor density across end markets.

如今，我們的新產品組合（包括垂直線、HPI、FTC 和 Copper First）提供了功能強大的解決方案，能夠很好地支援整個終端市場的封裝標籤電晶體密度。

We have been focusing extensively on this transition for years.

多年來我們一直廣泛關注這項轉變。

I'm pleased with our recent progress and look forward to additional adoption.

我對我們最近的進展感到滿意，並期待更多的採用。

Turning to the fourth quarter's results.

轉向第四季的業績。

We delivered revenue of $181.3 million and a non-GAAP EPS of $0.34. From an end market standpoint, this portion of general semiconductor, automotive, industrial, and memory have improved as expected, while LED demand remained very soft.

我們的營收為 1.813 億美元，非 GAAP 每股收益為 0.34 美元。從終端市場的角度來看，通用半導體、汽車、工業和記憶體這部分的情況已如預期有所改善，而 LED 需求仍然非常疲軟。

We continue to anticipate coordinate recovery of our two most significant end markets, general semiconductor and automotive industrial, through fiscal 2025.

我們繼續預計到 2025 財年，通用半導體和汽車工業這兩個最重要的終端市場將協調復甦。

For the September quarter, general semiconductor reduced sequentially primarily due to strong June quarter TCB revenue stemming from shipment schedules and the revenue cognition timeline, which we are quarter-to-quarter variability.

對於 9 月季度，通用半導體環比下降，主要是由於 6 月季度 TCB 收入強勁，這源於發貨計劃和收入認知時間表，我們將其視為季度與季度之間的變化。

Excluding TCB, general semiconductor increased by 11% sequentially, driven by capacity position and returning demand from global OSAT, as anticipated.

不包括TCB，通用半導體環比增長11%，正如預期的那樣，受到產能狀況和全球OSAT需求回升的推動。

Lower December quarter trend to be seasonally suffered, averaging 10% sequential reduction over the prior three years.

12 月季度的下降趨勢將受到季節性影響，比前三年平均季減 10%。

We are confident rather more demand will improve further through fiscal 2025 due to renewable unit growth combined with higher fee utilization rate.

我們相信，由於再生能源單位的成長和費用利用率的提高，到 2025 財年，更多的需求將進一步改善。

For automotive and industrial, we are seeing demand improvement after challenging year.

對於汽車和工業來說，在充滿挑戰的一年後，我們看到需求有所改善。

As we explained last year -- last quarter, the demand improvement in general semiconductor, driven by bold bonding were completely offset by the challenge within automotive and industrial during fiscal 2024.

正如我們去年（上季度）所解釋的那樣，大膽粘合推動的通用半導體需求改善完全被 2024 財年汽車和工業領域的挑戰所抵消。

At this point, we believe both critical markets are passed off and expect coordinate recovery to accelerate in fiscal 2025.

目前，我們認為這兩個關鍵市場都已經過去，並預計 2025 財年將協調復甦將加速。

Despite this recent period of capacity petition, we continue to participate in emerging transition driven by secular growth in electronics, in electrical vehicle, and the sustainability trends.

儘管最近出現了產能請願，我們仍繼續參與由電子產品、電動車和永續發展趨勢的長期成長所推動的新興轉型。

We have a strong network of global customers who are truly enabling these transitions, which we continue to support.

我們擁有強大的全球客戶網絡，他們真正實現了這些轉變，我們將繼續提供支援。

Over the past four years, many countries in addition to European Union have implemented targets or policies to incentivize EV adoption.

在過去四年中，除歐盟外，許多國家都實施了激勵電動車採用的目標或政策。

Just last month, the International Energy Agency, IEA, reported 7 million EVs were sold globally in the first half of calendar 2024, representing a 25% year-over-year increase.

就在上個月，國際能源總署 (IEA) 報告稱，2024 年上半年全球電動車銷量為 700 萬輛，年增 25%。

While our core wedge SMT and the battery assembly solutions are directly enabling this critical transition within the automotive market, we continue to seek our new solution which can expand our market access.

雖然我們的核心楔形 SMT 和電池組裝解決方案直接實現了汽車市場的這一關鍵轉型，但我們仍在繼續尋求新的解決方案來擴大我們的市場准入。

During the recent September quarters, we recognized revenue for an advanced expense system positioned to support a solid state EV manufacturing.

在最近的 9 月季度中，我們確認了旨在支持固態電動車製造的先進費用系統的收入。

This represents a new market for our advanced expense business but also diversify our growing base of battery-related opportunity in the US Europe and Asia.

這為我們的高級費用業務帶來了一個新市場，同時也使我們在美國、歐洲和亞洲不斷增長的電池相關機會基礎更加多元化。

We anticipate follow-up orders in the coming quarters to support these customers' production rep.

我們預計未來幾季會有後續訂單來支援這些客戶的生產代表。

[And LED], overall remains soft within ball bonding and continue to be in a state of attrition across the traditional wire bonded high bright lightining market.

[以及 LED]，球焊領域整體仍處於疲軟狀態，並且在傳統線焊高亮度照明市場中繼續處於消耗狀態。

While this current level of demand will likely persist over the coming quarters, we remain focused on driving adoption of our LUMINEX laser-based mini LED placement systems, which is positioned for a direct initiative and advanced backlighting adoption over the coming quarters.

雖然目前的需求水準可能會在未來幾季持續下去，但我們仍然專注於推動基於LUMINEX 雷射的迷你LED 貼裝系統的採用，該系統旨在在未來幾個季度實現直接舉措和先進背光的採用。

During the September quarter, we booked revenue for one LUMINEX system, which is in late-stage development and production readiness.

在九月季度，我們為一個 LUMINEX 系統預訂了收入，該系統正處於後期開發和生產準備階段。

We look forward to qualifying additional customers who [shake our tranfas] LED placement through 2025.

我們期待在 2025 年之前有更多客戶能夠[動搖我們的 tranfas] LED 佈局。

Lastly, we see ongoing strength related to both capacity addition and the technology change within the memory market.

最後，我們看到記憶體市場中與容量增加和技術變革相關的持續強勢。

In addition to the improving capacity need for traditional stack NAND application, we are working with key memory customers to leverage vertical-wide application in next-generation, low-power DRAM package as previously explained, but also within NAND application.

除了提高傳統堆疊 NAND 應用的容量需求外，我們還與主要記憶體客戶合作，利用下一代低功耗 DRAM 封裝中的垂直應用（如前所述），但也在 NAND 應用中。

Initial vertical wire, ALP EDR solution, leveraging a vertical configuration are currently running at two key memory customers in which we anticipate will move into low-volume production environment next year.

最初的垂直線 ALP EDR 解決方案利用垂直配置，目前正在兩個主要記憶體客戶中運行，我們預計這些客戶明年將進入小批量生產環境。

That ALP EDR, memory customers are also seeking new stack packaging format for NAND memory, which also utilize our unique set of vertical wire solutions.

ALP EDR 記憶體客戶也在尋求新的 NAND 記憶體堆疊封裝格式，該格式也利用了我們獨特的垂直線解決方案集。

Both approach offers smaller package footprint and performance benefit related to an improved layout, [low-pilastatic capacitance, and also low-pilastatic] resistance.

這兩種方法都提供了更小的封裝尺寸和與改進的佈局、[低蠕動電容和低蠕動]電阻相關的性能優勢。

This unique vertical wire solution are competing of how new packaging formats are mitigating no-shrink challenges.

這種獨特的垂直線解決方案正在與新的包裝格式如何緩解無收縮挑戰競爭。

We expect similar approach to extend the young memory into higher-volume general semiconductor applications over the coming years.

我們預計未來幾年類似的方法將年輕記憶體擴展到更高容量的通用半導體應用。

We are pleased with our recent progress and emerging position supporting advanced packaging applications serving the compute market.

我們對我們最近的進展和新興地位感到高興，支持服務於計算市場的先進封裝應用。

This leading edge market is now being enabled by chiplets and heterogeneous packaging technique.

這個領先的市場現在正在透過小晶片和異構封裝技術來實現。

And once previously excluded from our served market despite our [dominanable and wedge bond] shares and has been a key target of our advance solution strategy.

儘管我們擁有[主導和楔形債券]份額，但之前曾被排除在我們服務的市場之外，並且一直是我們先進解決方案策略的關鍵目標。

We are proud to demonstrate our strength, progress, and the potential with this long-term advanced solution strategy, low additional technology change are providing opportunity in several other areas as well.

我們很自豪能夠透過這種長期的先進解決方案策略來展示我們的實力、進步和潛力，低附加技術變化也為其他幾個領域提供了機會。

While the current TCB win for foundry, IDM, and wholesale customers, who are supporting media edge applications is expanding our market potentials, we want to remind investors that leading-edge applications are not the only opportunity for advanced packaging.

雖然目前支援媒體邊緣應用的代工廠、IDM 和批發客戶贏得的 TCB 正在擴大我們的市場潛力，但我們想提醒投資者，領先的應用並不是先進封裝的唯一機會。

Besides Copper First Hybrid and the FTC, our production-ready assembly technique, including vertical wire, are providing new solution for memory and the high-volume general semiconductor.

除了 Copper First Hybrid 和 FTC 之外，我們的生產就緒組裝技術（包括垂直佈線）正在為記憶體和大批量通用半導體提供新的解決方案。

Additionally, high-power interconnect HPI is enhancing power semiconductor and battery assembly approach.

此外，高功率互連 HPI 正在增強功率半導體和電池組裝方法。

This all represents critical technology transition, which are enhancing the value of our respective assembly processes.

這一切都代表著關鍵的技術轉型，從而提高了我們各自組裝流程的價值。

We are well prepared for this transition and have multiple market-ready solutions to support our extensive customer base.

我們為這一轉變做好了充分準備，並擁有多種市場就緒的解決方案來支援我們廣泛的客戶群。

Consortium participation, modeling market engagement, take adoption and a comprehensive set of advanced packaging solutions highlight our preparedness to address next set of industry challenges.

聯盟的參與、對市場參與的建模、採用和一整套先進的封裝解決方案突顯了我們為應對下一系列行業挑戰做好了準備。

After an extended period of capacity transition, we also expect ongoing improvement and the cyclical recovery across key end markets, most notably general semiconductor, automotive, and industrial.

經過長時間的產能轉型，我們也預期關鍵終端市場（尤其是通用半導體、汽車和工業）將持續改善和週期性復甦。

Looking into fiscal 2025, we remain optimistic due to the recent technology win, but also due to underlying market conditions.

展望 2025 財年，由於最近的技術勝利以及潛在的市場狀況，我們保持樂觀。

The relatively high global ball bonding evolution rate, combined with the reasonable semiconductor unit growth, is expected to trigger additional growth in our core market during fiscal 2025.

相對較高的全球球焊發展速度，加上合理的半導體單位成長，預計將在 2025 財年引發我們核心市場的額外成長。

In addition, the expectation of a broader automotive and industrial recovery are also supported with our results this quarter.

此外，我們本季的業績也支持了對汽車和工業更廣泛復甦的預期。

Finally, broader macroeconomic improvement are also expected to stimulate global semiconductor unit growth through fiscal 2025.

最後，更廣泛的宏觀經濟改善也預計將刺激到 2025 財年全球半導體單位的成長。

I will now turn the call over to Lester for the financial date.

我現在將把電話轉給萊斯特以了解財務日期。

Lester?

萊斯特？

Thank you, Fusen.

謝謝你，福森。

My remarks today will refer to GAAP results unless noted.

除非另有說明，我今天的演講將參考公認會計準則結果。

As we anticipate a broader cyclical recovery for our ball and wedge businesses, we remain focused on supporting many different customer engagements and new technology requirements to expand market access further into fiscal 2025.

由於我們預計球和楔塊業務將出現更廣泛的週期性復甦，因此我們仍然專注於支援許多不同的客戶參與和新技術要求，以在 2025 財年進一步擴大市場准入。

We continue to execute our broad growth strategy intended to expand our market competencies and market share in support of emerging technology transitions.

我們繼續執行廣泛的成長策略，旨在擴大我們的市場能力和市場份額，以支持新興技術轉型。

This too been demonstrated in many different markets and applications over the years, including stack wire bonding, battery assembly, display and, most notably, fluxless thermo-compression today.

多年來，這一點也在許多不同的市場和應用中得到了證明，包括堆疊引線鍵合、電池組裝、顯示器，以及當今最引人注目的無焊劑熱壓縮。

The success of this strategy relies on our technology, strength, close customer collaboration, and also our ability to hedge customer and project-related risk where possible.

這項策略的成功取決於我們的技術、實力、密切的客戶合作，以及我們盡可能對沖客戶和專案相關風險的能力。

Considering the extent of the Project W-related charges booked during the March quarter of our fiscal 2024, we are pleased to announce we reached a customer agreement for reimbursement of a significant portion of our product impairment charges.

考慮到 2024 財年第三季與 W 專案相關的費用，我們很高興地宣布，我們與客戶達成了一項協議，償還我們產品減損費用的很大一部分。

We intend to book the benefit within the current December quarter.

我們打算在當前 12 月季度內預訂福利。

Looking back at our September quarter results, we generated $181.3 million of revenue and a 48.3% gross margin, largely due to an improving mix of higher performance ball and wedge systems.

回顧我們 9 月季度的業績，我們創造了 1.813 億美元的收入和 48.3% 的毛利率，這主要歸功於高性能球和楔塊系統組合的改進。

Non-GAAP operating expenses came in above our expectations due primarily to foreign exchange and end of the year accrual adjustments.

非公認會計準則營運費用高於我們的預期，主要是由於外匯和年末應計調整。

During the September quarter, we booked a net income tax benefit of $2 million, primarily due to a $6.5 million tax benefit from a US tax court case, which reduced our time transition tax.

在 9 月季度，我們預訂了 200 萬美元的淨所得稅優惠，主要是由於美國稅務法庭案件獲得了 650 萬美元的稅收優惠，這減少了我們的時間過渡稅。

Prior to today's call, we also announced several updates to our capital allocation program.

在今天的電話會議之前，我們也宣布了資本配置計畫的幾項更新。

First, we received approval of our fifth consecutive dividend raise.

首先，我們連續第五次提高股利獲得批准。

We continue to appreciate the consistency and continuity of dividend program, which allows us to provide our long-term holders with a competitive dividend yield and income stream for their support.

我們仍然讚賞股息計劃的一致性和連續性，這使我們能夠為長期持有者提供有競爭力的股息收益率和收入流以支持他們。

Secondly, we announced the authorization of a new repurchase program, which we anticipate will seamlessly transition as we complete the existing program.

其次，我們宣布了新的回購計劃的授權，我們預計該計劃將在我們完成現有計劃後無縫過渡。

Finally, we want to remind investors we have repurchased 10.3 million shares over the prior three fiscal years and continue to maintain a consistent and fairly aggressive repurchase cadence.

最後，我們想提醒投資者，我們在過去三個財年回購了 1,030 萬股股票，並繼續保持一致且相當積極的回購節奏。

Over the long term, growing our market access through the organic and inorganic activities remain our priority, although we expect to further enhance long-term EPS growth for investors by continuing our proven repurchase strategy.

從長遠來看，透過有機和無機活動擴大我們的市場准入仍然是我們的首要任務，儘管我們預計透過繼續我們行之有效的回購策略，進一步提高投資者的長期每股盈餘成長。

For the December quarter, we expect revenues of approximately $165 million, plus or minus $10 million, with gross margin of 47%.

對於 12 月所在季度，我們預計營收約為 1.65 億美元，上下浮動 1,000 萬美元，毛利率為 47%。

Non-GAAP operating expenses are anticipated to be $70.5 million, plus or minus 2%.

非 GAAP 營運費用預計為 7,050 萬美元，上下浮動 2%。

Collectively, we expect GAAP EPS of $1.45 per share and non-GAAP EPS of $0.28 per share.

總體而言，我們預計 GAAP 每股收益為 1.45 美元，非 GAAP 每股收益為 0.28 美元。

This outlook includes customer reimbursement associated with the March 11, 2024, cancellation of Project W.

此展望包括與 2024 年 3 月 11 日取消 Project W 相關的客戶報銷。

As Fusen mentioned, we remain very focused on many different customer engagements and also very focused to drive market adoption of our growing portfolio of solutions.

正如 Fusen 所提到的，我們仍然非常關注許多不同的客戶參與，也非常注重推動市場採用我們不斷成長的解決方案組合。

We look forward to announcing additional product successes as we prepare for the broader core market recovery in fiscal 2025.

我們期待在 2025 財年為更廣泛的核心市場復甦做準備時宣布更多產品的成功。

This concludes our prepared comments.

我們準備好的評論到此結束。

Operator, please open the call for questions.

接線員，請打開電話提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Krish Sankar, TD Cowen.

克里斯·桑卡爾，TD·考恩。

Hi, thanks so much for taking my questions.

您好，非常感謝您回答我的問題。

This is Steven calling on behalf of Krish.

這是史蒂文代表克里什的電話。

I guess the first one for Fusen, in terms of your general semiconductor end market.

就一般半導體終端市場而言，我想富森的第一個。

It's nice to see the sequential growth during the September quarter.

很高興看到九月份季度的連續成長。

But just kind of curious, like if we were to dig in a little bit further in terms of the, I guess, utilization rates at your OSAT customers.

但只是有點好奇，就像我們是否要進一步深入了解 OSAT 客戶的使用率。

I think last quarter, you mentioned it would have -- you will be reaching the high 70% range during the September quarter.

我想上個季度，您提到過，您將在 9 月的季度達到 70% 的高點。

Did you reach that or exceed that?

您達到或超過了嗎？

And I'm just kind of curious like do you still think 80% utilization rates are still the right threshold to think about for when your customers will add capacity?

我只是有點好奇，您是否仍然認為 80% 的利用率仍然是您的客戶何時增加容量的正確門檻？

Or the more historic 90% utilization rate still the great sort of threshold?

或者更具歷史意義的 90% 利用率仍然是一個很大的門檻？

So Steven, it's Lester.

史蒂文，是萊斯特。

Let me answer the question on utilization.

我來回答一下關於使用的問題。

So I think, for the September quarter, the utilization rate differs in different regions, right, as well as in different end markets.

所以我認為，對於九月季度，不同地區以及不同終端市場的利用率有所不同，對吧。

So for example, in China, utilization rate is over 80%, while for the rest of the world, it's probably in the mid-70%s, but it is -- every last couple of quarters, it's been going up.

例如，在中國，利用率超過 80%，而對於世界其他地區，利用率可能在 70% 左右，但每隔幾個季度，利用率就會上升。

So I think for now utilization rate is also going up.

所以我認為目前利用率也在上升。

And I think 80% is sort of the threshold we've always said where people start doing more capacity wise.

我認為 80% 是我們一直在說的閾值，人們開始在容量上進行更多的明智選擇。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

And then just for my follow-up, in regards to the foundry summer win for the TCP RAPID Pro, congratulations on that announcement.

然後，就我的後續行動而言，關於 TCP RAPID Pro 的代工夏季勝利，祝賀這一宣布。

I'm just kind of curious, like, is that at a major timeline foundry?

我只是有點好奇，那是在一家主要的時間線鑄造廠嗎？

And also, can you give us a sense for the longer term or the opportunity for the aftersales next year and longer term for the time horizon for that?

另外，您能否讓我們了解更長期的情況或明年售後的機會以及更長期的時間範圍？

Okay.

好的。

The recent win actually with the multiple system PO, this is for the near-term production.

最近的勝利實際上是多系統PO，這是為了近期的生產。

Why we believe we actually have upside for the next year and onward.

為什麼我們相信明年及以後我們實際上有上升空間。

Actually, we have not received a long-term forecast, but we believe it can be significant for the futures.

事實上，我們還沒有收到長期預測，但我們相信這對未來可能具有重要意義。

So we probably will give you more update a bit early in next year.

因此，我們可能會在明年初為您提供更多更新。

But I think this [is a] conclude however actually was a successful to qualify our products.

但我認為這個結論實際上是成功地驗證了我們的產品。

And we believe the long term it will be good.

我們相信從長遠來看這將是好的。

So short term, I think we probably will update you in the next couple of quarters.

短期來看，我認為我們可能會在接下來的幾季內向您通報最新情況。

And Fusen, just a quick follow-up to that, for that FTC win..

富森（Fusen），只是 FTC 勝利的快速跟進。

Are you guys the sole supplier for that solution?

你們是該解決方案的唯一供應商嗎？

Or are you sharing that business with another industry peer, Fusen?

或者您是否與另一位業內同行 Fusen 共享該業務？

Well, I think at the recent moment, we are don't want to receive it.

嗯，我認為目前我們不想收到它。

We don't comment in future any possibility, but we are quite confident our capability and also are confident in the opportunity we have for the next couple of years longer term.

我們不會評論未來的任何可能性，但我們對我們的能力非常有信心，也對我們在未來幾年的長期機會充滿信心。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

Tom Diffely, D.A. Davidson.

湯姆·迪夫利，D.A.戴維森。

Yes, good morning.

是的，早安。

Thanks for the question.

謝謝你的提問。

Curious, just on the general semi business, how much did that recover during your fiscal '24?

好奇的是，就一般半成品業務而言，您在 24 財年期間恢復了多少？

And then what are your projections for fiscal '25?

那麼您對 25 財年的預測是什麼？

Maybe you can put it in the context of where that market is kind of on a normal basis.

也許你可以把它放在正常市場的背景下。

In semiconductor, so are you talking about general semiconductor in FY25?

在半導體方面，您指的是 25 財年的通用半導體嗎？

Yeah, just kind of where we are in the cycle.

是的，這就是我們所處的周期。

I mean, obviously, two years ago, there was a trough and then it came up a bit last year, and then your (multiple speakers) for growth like again this year.

我的意思是，顯然，兩年前，有一個低谷，然後去年有所上升，然後你的（多個發言者）像今年一樣再次增長。

Okay.

好的。

So maybe I can just overview to tell you how market forecast from industry forecasters and also our view.

所以也許我可以簡單地概述一下產業預測者如何預測市場以及我們的觀點。

So the Q1, actually, we guided $165 million.

事實上，第一季我們指引了 1.65 億美元。

I think industry attrition looks like still a little bit longer.

我認為產業流失的時間似乎還更長。

But we do see our Q2 actually will be better than Q1.

但我們確實看到我們的第二季度實際上會比第一季更好。

And industry forecast actually believe next year, unit growth will be about 7% to 8% and approximately about 14% of revenue, right, this from Gartner.

產業預測實際上相信明年單位成長率將約為 7% 至 8%，收入的成長率約為 14%，對吧，這是來自 Gartner 的。

And the growth in the semiconductor revenue driven by, number one, is AI.

半導體收入成長的第一個推動因素是人工智慧。

Number two is automotive.

第二是汽車。

And a lot of people believe automotive maybe already past the trough.

許多人認為汽車業可能已經度過了低潮。

The third one, maybe I answer your question is a general semi.

第三個，也許我回答你的問題是一般的半成品。

And general semi, I think, in '25, the growth will be in IoT and also AI edge devices, which is a communication devices with AI, like AI-capable PC and the smartphone, right?

我認為，一般半成品在 25 年，成長將出現在物聯網和人工智慧邊緣設備上，即具有人工智慧的通訊設備，例如具有人工智慧功能的 PC 和智慧型手機，對嗎？

So these few items people believe it's going to be 14% for the semiconductor revenue.

因此，人們認為這幾項將佔半導體收入的 14%。

So from our point of view, we got $165 million, and we do believe that Q2 will be better.

所以從我們的角度來看，我們獲得了 1.65 億美元，我們確實相信第二季會更好。

And as your question to Lester, the current generation rate, I think, average, we look at about 77%, really not far away from 80%, which is a trigger capacity addition.

正如你向萊斯特提出的問題，我認為，目前的發電率平均約為 77%，距離 80% 不遠，這是一個觸發容量的增加。

So talking about our products, talking about ball bonder.

所以談論我們的產品，談論球焊機。

Our ball bonder peaked at about $1 billion in FY21.

我們的焊球機在 2021 財年達到了約 10 億美元的峰值。

But as you mentioned, I think, we do see a recovery in the '24 compared to '23, but was wiped out by actually the auto weakness, right?

但正如你所提到的，我認為，與 23 年相比，我們確實看到了 24 年的復甦，但實際上被汽車疲軟所抵消，對嗎？

But our ball bonder in '21, '23, and '24, actually is only averaged $300 million, give and take.

但我們 21 年、23 年和 24 年的焊球機實際上平均只有 3 億美元，算算。

So we believe our ball bonder have a lot of room to go.

因此，我們相信我們的球焊機還有很大的發展空間。

So we do expect second half '25 is our strong second half.

所以我們確實預期 25 年下半年是我們強勁的下半年。

We expect pre-COVID ball bonder run rate in about

我們預計新冠疫情爆發前的焊球機運行率約為

[$500 million to $600 million].

[5億至6億美元]。

We do believe from the second half of '25, we should lean in towards this number.

我們確實相信，從 25 年下半年開始，我們應該傾向於這個數字。

So to make the story short, we believe our ball bonder will be up, more significantly in second half, mainly driven by China mature node capacity addition, right?

因此，簡而言之，我們相信我們的焊球機將會成長，尤其是下半年，這主要是由中國成熟節點產能增加所推動的，對嗎？

This is a 28-nanometer and above.

這是28奈米及以上的。

China is capacity coming up.

中國的產能正在增加。

And also Southeast Asia, particularly in Malaysia, a lot of -- some demand will come to Malaysia is for the China one strategy, right?

還有東南亞，特別是馬來西亞，馬來西亞的一些需求是為了中國的策略，對嗎？

So ball bonder, we believe, will be up.

因此，我們相信，球焊機將會崛起。

And wedge bonder, we discussed probably positive trough.

和楔形鍵合機，我們討論了可能的正谷。

We actually are quite optimistic receive order in recent quarters.

事實上，我們對最近幾季的訂單接收情況相當樂觀。

And we believe our TCB expense will also go up, right?

我們相信我們的 TCB 費用也會增加，對吧？

So that's a give and take of our view and industrial forecast view about FY25?

這就是我們對 2025 財年的看法和產業預測的看法嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

No, I appreciate the color.

不，我很欣賞這個顏色。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

And then as a follow-up, Lester, if you could just talk a little bit about the recovery from Project W you're getting in the first fiscal quarter here, and how that compares to what the total charge-off was, that would be helpful.

然後，萊斯特，作為後續行動，如果您能談談 W 項目在第一財季的復甦情況，以及與總沖銷額相比如何，那就是樂於助人。

Sure, sure.

當然，當然。

As you recall, in Q2, Project W was canceled by the customer and we took an impairment in Q2.

正如您所記得的，在第二季度，專案 W 被客戶取消，我們在第二季度進行了減損。

So as we indicated in our remarks, I'm very pleased that we've reached an agreement with the customer for the customer to reimburse a significant part of our impairment charges as reimbursement for our costs.

因此，正如我們在發言中指出的那樣，我很高興我們與客戶達成協議，客戶將償還我們的大部分減損費用，作為我們成本的償還。

So -- and this reimbursement will be recognized in Q1 and it's already in our current GAAP and non-GAAP guidance.

因此，這筆報銷將在第一季得到確認，並且已經包含在我們目前的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 指引中。

So we provide -- in our earnings release, Tom, at the back, there's a table that shows our anticipated non-GAAP items included in the outlook.

所以我們在收益報告的後面提供了一張表格，顯示了我們預期的非公認會計準則項目，包括在展望中。

And there's a $75 million item related to discontinued business claims and proceeds in that table, which is overwhelmingly related to Project W.

該表中有一項 7,500 萬美元的項目與已終止的業務索賠和收益相關，其中絕大多數與 W 項目相關。

Okay, great.

好的，太好了。

You can just remind us what the total impairment charge was in the second quarter.

您只需提醒我們第二季的總減損費用是多少。

$105 million.

1.05 億美元。

Great.

偉大的。

Okay, very helpful.

好的，非常有幫助。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Dave Duley, Steelhead Securities.

戴夫杜利 (Dave Duley)，Steelhead 證券公司。

Thanks for taking my questions and congratulations on the nice TCB wins.

感謝您回答我的問題，並祝賀 TCB 獲勝。

I was curious, you mentioned several applications, I think, in the press release.

我很好奇，我認為您在新聞稿中提到了幾個應用程式。

But as far as your initial read on the situation, do you think you're going to be -- is this when at the foundry going to be more for chip-on-wafer or the wafer on the substrate?

但就您對這種情況的初步了解，您是否認為代工廠會更多地採用晶圓上晶片或基板上的晶圓？

I think the chip on the wafer is the kind of the higher value-added step.

我認為晶圓上的晶片是那種附加價值較高的步驟。

So I was just kind of curious if you've gotten one or two of these steps.

所以我只是有點好奇你是否已經完成了其中的一兩個步驟。

Yes.

是的。

Actually, to answer your question short, this application, it's a full fluctuate qualification, but it's at the chip-to-wafer level.

事實上，簡單地回答你的問題，這個應用程序，它是一個完全波動的資格，但它是在晶片到晶圓級別。

And this is most advanced, probably, chip-to-wafer application and use our fluxless.

這可能是最先進的晶片到晶圓應用，並使用我們的無助焊劑。

And our fluxless actually can qualify process were both chip-to-substrate and chip-to-wafer.

我們的無助焊劑實際上可以驗證晶片到基板和晶片到晶圓的製程。

But for this case, I think now with chip-to-wafer to qualify fluxless.

但對於這種情況，我認為現在使用晶片到晶圓來限定無助焊劑。

But I think there will be numerous opportunity and numerous projects.

但我認為將會有許多機會和很多項目。

And as far as -- will these be for mobile applications?

至於——這些將用於行動應用程式嗎？

Or do you think these are going to be for high-performance compute AI applications?

或者您認為這些將用於高效能運算人工智慧應用程式？

So I actually mentioned, I think this probably is the most advanced TCB process for the high-end products.

所以我實際上提到，我認為這可能是高端產品最先進的TCB製程。

Okay.

好的。

And then I was curious, you've made comments during your prepared remarks and in the press release about a coordinated recovery in the general semiconductor market.

然後我很好奇，您在準備好的演講中和新聞稿中就總體半導體市場的協調復甦發表了評論。

So obviously, your utilization rates have improved.

很明顯，您的利用率有所提高。

Have you started -- are the customers coming in and asking for slots or asking about availability for larger orders?

您是否已經開始—客戶是否進來詢問是否有空位或詢問是否可以接受大訂單？

What other signs are you seeing in the general semi business that gives you confidence that there's a recovery underway?

您在一般半成品行業中看到的其他哪些跡象讓您相信正在復甦？

Well, Dave, I mean, one -- you've mentioned one, right, utilization rates across the board on the high 70%s in most end markets, and then on a regional basis, it's over 80% already in China, and it's, again, growing in the rest of the world.

好吧，戴夫，我的意思是，一 - 你提到了一個，對吧，大多數終端市場的整體利用率都高達 70%，然後從區域來看，中國的利用率已經超過 80%，並且它再次在世界其他地區增長。

China has been strong actually over the last couple of quarters.

事實上，中國在過去幾季一直表現強勁。

And we believe that now the rest of the world is starting to catch up.

我們相信，現在世界其他地區正在開始迎頭趕上。

I think they're starting to -- for all the reasons that Fusen said, right?

我認為他們正開始這樣做——出於福森所說的所有原因，對吧？

In terms of -- in China, there's a lot of fabs coming online, which will -- wafers, which obviously needs to be packaged.

就中國而言，有很多晶圓廠即將上線，這些晶圓廠顯然需要封裝。

And again, wire bonding is still the cheapest way of interconnect.

再次強調，引線鍵合仍然是最便宜的互連方式。

I think in addition, we also are seeing macro recovery a little bit in the economy.

我認為此外，我們也看到經濟出現了一些宏觀復甦。

Obviously, there's still a little bit of volatility out there.

顯然，市場仍然存在一些波動。

So all in all, I think we are seeing a lot more customer interest, both inside and outside of China.

總而言之，我認為我們看到中國國內外客戶的興趣大大增加。

Okay.

好的。

One more question for me is you had a very robust gross margin in the quarter.

對我來說，還有一個問題是，你們本季的毛利率非常強勁。

I think it was just over 48%.

我認為剛剛超過 48%。

And I was kind of curious, I've asked this question on previous conference calls, you've introduced a bunch of new products in the core, wedge and wire bonder business that have higher margin profiles.

我有點好奇，我在之前的電話會議上問過這個問題，你們在核心、楔塊和焊線機業務中推出了一系列具有更高利潤率的新產品。

I'm wondering, as we move into next year, what can we expect for the gross margin profile for the wire and wedge bonder business?

我想知道，隨著我們進入明年，我們對引線和楔焊機業務的毛利率狀況有何預期？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

So for the corporate margin, I mean, we are still aiming towards 50%, right?

所以對於企業利潤率，我的意思是，我們的目標仍然是 50%，對吧？

And then you're right, we have started introducing higher gross margin product in both our ball and wedge bonder businesses, and now they are getting qualified and I think they're becoming a high and high percentage of our overall ball and wedge sales.

然後你是對的，我們已經開始在我們的球和楔形粘合機業務中引入更高毛利率的產品，現在它們正在獲得資格，我認為它們在我們整體球和楔形粘合機銷售額中所佔的比例越來越高。

So I think as we move further into fiscal year '25, I think the margin will start expanding.

因此，我認為，隨著我們進一步進入 25 財年，我認為利潤率將開始擴大。

And also, as we've mentioned many times before, Fusen is very focused on cost reduction efforts, which is still ongoing.

而且，正如我們之前多次提到的那樣，富森非常注重降低成本的努力，而且這項努力仍在進行中。

Thank you.

謝謝。

[Mayur Popuri], B. Riley Securities.

[Mayur Popuri]，B. Riley 證券。

I'm actually calling on behalf of Craig Ellis.

我實際上是代表克雷格·埃利斯打電話的。

And I wanted to ask about something that you said to Tom earlier, which is that you kind of expect a stronger Q2 than Q1.

我想問一下您之前對湯​​姆說的一件事，那就是您預計第二季會比第一季更強。

That's sort of kind of been a theme across the board with selling season.

這在某種程度上是銷售季節的一個主題。

Are there any dynamics that you see that lead you to believe that Q1 might be somewhat depressed unusually?

您看到的任何動態是否使您相信第一季可能會異常低迷？

Well, Q1, nobody -- most of the weakest ones quarter probably is Q1.

好吧，第一季度，沒有人——大多數最弱的季度可能是第一季。

Nobody -- I think seasonality happened in Q1.

沒有人——我認為季節性發生在第一季。

And the past 3 years is about 10% down, right?

過去3年大約下降了10%，對嗎？

So this looks like in line with that.

所以這看起來是符合的。

Q2 actually, we do have a few customer.

Q2 實際上，我們確實有一些客戶。

Actually, because scheduled reason, I think, already have a slot over there.

事實上，因為預定的原因，我想，那裡已經有一個位置了。

So we do believe Q2 will be better than Q1, that's the number we are seeing right now.

因此，我們確實相信第二季會比第一季更好，這就是我們現在看到的數字。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

是的，這很有意義。

And then so another thing and obviously audio industrial has been picking up for, I guess, three consecutive quarters now.

然後，另一件事，顯然音頻行業已經連續三個季度回升。

Do you kind of expect that linearity to continue into the next year?

您預計這種線性關係會持續到明年嗎？

And do you think that we've sort of seen the trough of the cycle and now we're entering into a more sustainable expansion.

您是否認為我們已經看到了週期的低谷，現在我們正在進入更永續的擴張？

Well, I think in terms of us, the most in auto actual product is ball bonder, one is the wedge bonder.

嗯，我認為對我們來說，汽車實際產品中最多的是球焊機，一種是楔焊機。

So all we can reuse that we have actually believe the wedge bonder is recovering.

因此，我們可以重複使用我們實際上相信楔形黏合機正在恢復的所有東西。

And so it's ball bonder.

這就是球焊機。

So in terms of [linearity], some of wedge bonder actually have a big customer, both in the US and also in China , right, two customers.

所以就[線性]而言，一些楔形鍵合機實際上有一個大客戶，既在美國，也在中國，對，兩個客戶。

The PO com actually can be big.

PO com 實際上可以很大。

And so to achieve [linearity] probably is not easy.

因此，要實現[線性]可能並不容易。

But we do believe wedge bonder in the auto industry will be doing well for 2025.

但我們確實相信，到 2025 年，汽車產業的楔形黏合機將會表現良好。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

And then just one last question.

最後一個問題。

Congrats on the TCB fluxless wins.

恭喜 TCB 無磁通量獲勝。

The way that I'm talking about is that it might relate to these leading-edge advanced packaging uses.

我所說的方式是它可能與這些前沿的先進包裝用途有關。

Am I thinking about this the right way?

我以正確的方式思考這個問題嗎？

And what end markets are carrying this order pickup?

哪些終端市場正在帶來訂單的增加？

Well, I mentioned, I don't want to speak about customers' critical information.

嗯，我提到過，我不想談論客戶的關鍵訊息。

But we believe this is so critical, it's the most precision and reliability is very important.

但我們相信這一點非常關鍵，它的精確度和可靠性非常重要。

And it would be -- at this moment, actually is -- can be for many multiple industries, right?

此刻，事實上，它可以適用於許多多個行業，對吧？

It can be for autonomous in the future, it can be for the high-end high-power computing.

未來可以是自動駕駛，可以是高階大功率運算。

So we believe that this is a really typical application.

所以我們相信這是一個非常典型的應用。

And once qualified, this will long many, many years. of course.

一旦獲得資格，這將持續很多很多年。當然。

Yeah.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

That's all I have.

這就是我所擁有的一切。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Charles Shi, Needham

查爾斯史，李約瑟

Good evening, Fusen and Lester.

晚上好，福森和萊斯特。

Congrats on the TCB announcement.

祝賀 TCB 公告。

I do have a few follow-up on that.

我對此確實有一些後續行動。

First, it sounds like you're characterizing order as a production order.

首先，聽起來您將訂單描述為生產訂單。

Can you kind of confirm that?

你能證實一下嗎？

And the second, I do want to ask from the technical perspective, that can you kind of speak to why the customer is transitioning to TCB?

第二，我確實想從技術角度問，您能談談為什麼客戶要過渡到 TCB 嗎？

Because everybody heard about that the story about the shrinking bump pitch, smaller bumps.

因為每個人都聽過關於縮小凸點間距、更小的凸點的故事。

But I do think that maybe there is something there regarding the large guy assembly that may require TCB.

但我確實認為，也許大傢伙組裝中存在一些可能需要 TCB 的情況。

Can you kind of speak to that and especially the -- on the large angle, is that part of the reason why your tools are getting adopted?

您能否談談這一點，特別是從大的角度來看，這是您的工具被採用的部分原因嗎？

Okay.

好的。

I think the qualification I mentioned is for fluxless.

我認為我提到的資格是針對無焊劑的。

So fluxless, as you know, the are two technology.

如您所知，無助焊劑是兩種技術。

We actually believe we have a very strong direction.

我們實際上相信我們有一個非常堅定的方向。

And actually, you know this is a solar process, this is the process.

事實上，你知道這是一個太陽能過程，這就是這個過程。

But anyway, you really need our case make a good contact with [out any outside], right?

但無論如何，您確實需要我們的案例與[任何外界]保持良好的聯繫，對吧？

So we believe our process fluxless is using actually localized delivery forming assets paper to clean the service at the bonding stage.

因此，我們相信我們的無焊劑製程實際上是使用本地化的交付成型資產紙來清潔黏合階段的服務。

We believe that this is the right approach.

我們相信這是正確的做法。

There are no wait time in situ clean, and we do believe the service -- the bonding between a copper is very, really good.

現場清潔無需等待時間，而且我們確實相信這項服務——銅之間的粘合非常非常好。

And the other one actually is a use of plasma.

另一種實際上是等離子體的使用。

So -- and of course, our last die is always in our road map, right?

所以——當然，我們的最後一個骰子總是在我們的路線圖中，對吧？

And we believe we can handle very, very large die because right now, as you know, the die are getting much bigger.

我們相信我們可以處理非常非常大的模具，因為現在，正如你所知，模具變得越來越大。

And the whole wafer may be only a couple times, right?

整個晶圓可能只有幾次，對吧？

So it's a critical one.

所以這是一個關鍵的問題。

So I just want to let you know, we have a completely ready for a large die.

所以我想讓你知道，我們已經為大型模具做好了充分的準備。

And we are very confident on our technology provide a good ability and good years.

我們對我們的技術提供良好的能力和良好的年限非常有信心。

That's the reason I think, yes, to answer your question, yes, this is for production.

這就是我認為，是的，回答你的問題的原因，是的，這是為了生產。

Got it.

知道了。

So the current order, is it mostly -- you said there's two technologies, right, that the ones that you're seeing plasma, the other one, sounds like it's a different technology.

所以目前的順序，主要是——你說有兩種技術，對吧，你看到的等離子技術，另一種，聽起來像是一種不同的技術。

Which one is shipping today?

今天出貨的是哪一款？

Okay.

好的。

Of course, we are the ones shipping and we use chemical clean [isotonic] acid.

當然，我們是發貨的，我們使用化學清潔[等滲]酸。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Maybe the other question regarding high bandwidth memory, any progress you can update us on the TCB for that particular market?

也許是關於高頻寬記憶體的另一個問題，您可以向我們介紹該特定市場 TCB 的最新進展嗎？

Sure.

當然。

So actually, we are quite excited.

所以實際上，我們非常興奮。

For the memory, this is going to be our focus.

對於記憶來說，這將是我們的重點。

So we have two-part focus in memory.

所以我們的記憶重點有兩個部分。

One is vertical wire.

一種是垂直線。

And as we mentioned this for -- the first one is going to for the low-power DDR.

正如我們所提到的，第一個是針對低功耗 DDR 的。

And current indication, preliminarily low volume production will happen probably end of this year -- I'm sorry, end of '25.

目前的跡象表明，初步小批量生產可能會在今年年底進行——對不起，是 25 年底。

And with [vertical wire in our] process, you actually can shrink about 35% of the phone sector.

透過[我們的垂直線]工藝，實際上可以縮小電話領域約 35% 的面積。

So we are quite excited on that.

所以我們對此感到非常興奮。

Yes, next one actually is HBM.

是的，下一個實際上是 HBM。

So we actually quite used a lot of effort engaging our memory customers and -- to demonstrate our capability.

因此，我們實際上花了很多精力來吸引我們的記憶體客戶，並展示我們的能力。

So this is going to be our priority in FY '25.

因此，這將是我們 25 財年的首要任務。

I think I probably in another quarter or two, I can give you an update.

我想我可能再過一兩個季度，我就能給你更新消息。

But to tell you, I think we are quite confident in our technical superiority, and we are going to put a good effort.

但告訴你，我認為我們對我們的技術優勢非常有信心，我們將付出很大的努力。

And we have a lot of work to started already, and I'll probably give you more update on this one or two quarters.

我們已經有很多工作要做，我可能會在這兩個季度向您提供更多最新資訊。

All right.

好的。

Thanks, Fusen.

謝謝，福森。

Yeah.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you very much, Charles.

非常感謝你，查爾斯。

Thank you.

謝謝。

At this time, I'd like to turn the floor back over to Mr. Elgindy for closing comments.

現在，我想把發言權交還給埃爾金迪先生以供結束發言。

Thank you, Donna, and thank you all for joining today's call.

謝謝唐娜，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。

Over the coming quarter, we'll be presenting at several conferences and road shows.

在下個季度，我們將在多個會議和路演中進行展示。

As always, please feel free to follow up directly with any additional questions.

與往常一樣，如果有任何其他問題，請隨時直接跟進。

This concludes today's call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

Have a great day, everyone.

祝大家有美好的一天。