庫力索法 (KLIC) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Kulicke and Soffa 2024 Second Quarter Results and Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加 Kulicke 和 Soffa 2024 年第二季業績和電話會議。 （操作員指示）謹此提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。

It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Joseph Elgindy, Senior Director of Investor Relations. Thank you, sir. You may begin.

現在我很高興向您介紹主持人，投資者關係高級總監 Joseph Elgindy。謝謝你，先生。你可以開始了。

Thank you. Welcome, everyone, to Kulicke and Soffa Fiscal Second Quarter 2024 Conference Call. Fusen Chen, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Lester Wong, Chief Financial Officer, are also joining on today's call.

謝謝。歡迎大家參加 Kulicke 和 Soffa 2024 年第二季財政電話會議。陳福森，總裁兼執行長；和財務長 Lester Wong 也參加了今天的電話會議。

Non-GAAP financial measures referenced today should be considered in addition to, not as a substitute for or in isolation from our GAAP financial information. GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliation tables are included within our latest earnings release and our earnings presentation. Both are available at investor.kns.com, along with prepared remarks for today's call.

今天提到的非公認會計原則財務指標應被視為對我們公認會計原則財務資訊的補充，而不是替代或孤立於我們的公認會計原則財務資訊。 GAAP 與非 GAAP 調節表包含在我們最新的收益發布和收益演示中。這兩份文件以及為今天的電話會議準備的發言稿均可在 Investor.kns.com 上取得。

In addition to historical statements, today's remarks will contain statements relating to future events and/or future results. These statements are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause our actual results and financial condition to differ materially from the statements made today. For a complete discussion of the risks associated with Kulicke and Soffa that could affect our future results and financial condition, please refer to our recent and upcoming SEC filings, specifically our most recently filed Form 10-K and the 8-K filed yesterday.

除了歷史陳述之外，今天的演講還將包含與未來事件和/或未來結果有關的陳述。這些陳述是 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》所定義的前瞻性陳述，並受到風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致我們的實際結果和財務狀況與今天的陳述有重大差異。有關可能影響我們未來業績和財務狀況的與Kulicke 和Soffa 相關的風險的完整討論，請參閱我們最近和即將提交的SEC 文件，特別是我們最近提交的10-K 表格和昨天提交的8-K 表格。

With that said, I would now like to turn the call over to Fusen Chen for the business overview. Please go ahead, Fusen.

話雖如此，我現在想把電話轉給陳福森，了解一下業務概況。請繼續，福森。

Good morning, everyone. While certain market including LED, automotive and industrial continued to be a challenging new term, we remain focused on expanding our market position and driving new and successful customer qualification over the coming quarters in Thermocompression, VFO and Advanced Dispense. These expected successes combined with a recovering core market and a significant focus on operational efficiency will be beneficial to customers, employees and the investors over the coming years.

大家，早安。雖然包括LED、汽車和工業在內的某些市場仍然是一個充滿挑戰的新領域，但我們仍然專注於擴大我們的市場地位，並在未來幾季推動熱壓縮、VFO 和高級點膠領域的新客戶取得成功。這些預期的成功加上核心市場的復甦以及對營運效率的高度重視將在未來幾年對客戶、員工和投資者有利。

Before discussing this quarter's results and outlook, I wanted to briefly discuss Project W and our overriding customer engagement strategy. This 2017 K&S has evolved by growing intimate customer engagement. This customer-focused growth strategy has been successful and has allowed us to take shares in new markets as we expand our competency. A few recent example of this engagement approach include our effort to enter advanced display market, enter the co-packaged optics market, expand our share in leading-edge logic and actively enables next high-volume packaging format for DRAM.

在討論本季的業績和前景之前，我想先簡單討論一下 W 專案和我們最重要的客戶參與策略。 2017 年的 K&S 透過日益密切的客戶參與而不斷發展。這種以客戶為中心的成長策略取得了成功，使我們能夠在擴大能力的同時佔領新市場的份額。這種參與方法的最新例子包括我們努力進入先進顯示市場、進入共同封裝光學市場、擴大我們在前沿邏輯領域的份額以及積極支援下一代 DRAM 的大批量封裝格式。

Our Advanced Dispense business is taking a similar customer-focused approach, which I will explain shortly. While our intimate engagement strategy has provided a new market access, share gain and profitability, there will always be a potential risk that a project may be canceled by the end customer, which unfortunately was the case for Project W. Industry challenges combined with macro factors likely played a role in our customers' decision to discontinue this program with its supply chain partners, including K&S.

我們的高級點膠業務正在採取類似的以客戶為中心的方法，我很快就會對此進行解釋。雖然我們的密切參與策略提供了新的市場准入、份額增益和盈利能力，但始終存在專案可能被最終客戶取消的潛在風險，不幸的是 Project W 就是這種情況。可能是我們的客戶決定終止與其供應鏈合作夥伴（包括K&S）的該計劃的原因之一。

Project-related assets and the tool, raw and finished goods inventory as well as open purchase order with our vendor was accounted for in the second quarter's impairment charge, which has affected both GAAP and non-GAAP earnings.

與項目相關的資產和工具、原材料和成品庫存以及與供應商的未結帳採購訂單均計入第二季的減損費​​用，這影響了 GAAP 和非 GAAP 收益。

Largely related to the cancellation of our Project W, we have restructured to remain lean and have reallocated resource to accelerate other critical business initiatives including fulfilling a sizable purchase order and broadening customer demand for Memory, Advanced Dispense and Advanced Packaging solutions. Restructuring and the reallocation decisions are never taken lightly, although these actions were necessary to maintain a focused operational model.

很大程度上與W 專案的取消有關，我們進行了重組以保持精簡，並重新分配資源以加速其他關鍵業務計劃，包括履行大量採購訂單以及擴大客戶對內存、高級分配和高級包裝解決方案的需求。重組和重新分配決策絕不會掉以輕心，儘管這些行動對於維持集中的營運模式是必要的。

We continue to expect gradual market recoveries through fiscal 2024 with greater technology and capacity opportunity in fiscal 2025. Near term, we continue to anticipate demand improvement led by general semiconductor combined with a more resilient memory demand.

我們繼續預期市場將在 2024 財年逐步復甦，並在 2025 財年獲得更大的技術和產能機會。

For general semiconductor, Ball Bonder order activity is improving and the supported by utilization trend. Also customer momentum continue as we broaden advanced packaging engagements. Since our second fiscal quarter 2023, we have already experienced an over 50% increase in Ball Bonder revenue despite ongoing headwind within automotive, industrial and LED market. We continue to prepare for a more robust demand in general semiconductor applications as order activity with high-volume customers gradually accelerates.

對於通用半導體，球焊機訂單活動正在改善，並受到利用率趨勢的支撐。隨著我們擴大先進包裝業務，客戶動力也持續成長。自 2023 年第二財季以來，儘管汽車、工業和 LED 市場持續存在阻力，但我們的球焊機收入已經成長了 50% 以上。隨著大批量客戶的訂單活動逐漸加速，我們將繼續為通用半導體應用中更強勁的需求做好準備。

After market closed yesterday, we announced a sizable purchase order of 1,000 RAPID Pro system, from a fast-growing Assembly and Test Company, which were upgraded with our ProSuite response-based bonding and looping capabilities. Improving utilization rate combined with high volume order provides us with optimism on near-term general low semiconductor recovery.

昨天收盤後，我們宣布從一家快速發展的組裝和測試公司購買了 1,000 套 RAPID Pro 系統，該系統已通過我們的 ProSuite 基於響應的粘合和循環功能進行了升級。利用率的提高與大批量訂單相結合，使我們對近期普遍較低的半導體復甦感到樂觀。

Next, demand for LED has demand limited due to lower utilization rate across our customer base. The automotive and industrial market continue to face near-term headwinds, although based on utilization rate and the customer feedback, we anticipate demand to stabilize with a broader recovery to begin over the coming quarters. Despite the current softness, our current quarter automotive revenue run rate, fiscal year 2024 to date is 33% above our most recent automotive and industrial trough run rate experienced throughout fiscal year 2020.

其次，由於我們客戶群的使用率較低，對 LED 的需求有限。汽車和工業市場短期內繼續面臨阻力，但根據利用率和客戶回饋，我們預計需求將穩定下來，並在未來幾季開始更廣泛的復甦。儘管目前經濟疲軟，但我們 2024 財年迄今的本季汽車收入運行率比我們最近整個 2020 財年經歷的汽車和工業低谷運行率高出 33%。

This fairly rapid increase in trough-to-trough performance is largely driven by broad and secular trend we are enabling. These trends are driven by global electric vehicle sustainable energy and smart power distribution need, which provide ongoing growth opportunity.

業績從低谷到低谷的快速成長很大程度上是由我們所推動的廣泛和長期趨勢所推動的。這些趨勢是由全球電動車可持續能源和智慧配電需求推動的，這提供了持續的成長機會。

Finally, Memory has sequentially reduced from a very strong quarter, largely due to customer mix change. Demand for our memory solution has expanded significantly from the trough level we experienced last fiscal year. During the first fiscal half of 2024, our Memory revenue has nearly doubled from our entire Memory revenue in fiscal year 2023. We expect demand across Memory application to continue to recover over the coming quarters.

最後，記憶體從非常強勁的季度開始連續下降，這主要是由於客戶組合的變化。對我們記憶體解決方案的需求較上一財年經歷的低潮水準顯著擴大。在 2024 年上半年，我們的記憶體收入幾乎是 2023 財年整個記憶體收入的兩倍。

Looking ahead, our core business is anticipated to strengthen as a general semiconductor continues to improve, and we remain very focused on near-term execution. New technology wins in Memory, share gains in Advanced Dispense and the broadening of our Thermocompression customer base. I would like to take a few minutes to explain each.

展望未來，隨著通用半導體的不斷改進，我們的核心業務預計將得到加強，並且我們仍然非常注重短期執行。新技術在記憶體方面取得了勝利，在高級分配方面獲得了份額收益，並擴大了我們的熱壓縮客戶群。我想花幾分鐘來解釋每一個。

First, within Memory, we continue to actively qualify and develop vertical-fan out, or VFO solution, utilizing our wafer level packaging system, which is expected to expand our memory market access over the coming years. While VFO memory solutions are still emerging customer momentum is strong, and we expect they will transition into higher volume production next year.

首先，在記憶體領域，我們利用我們的晶圓級封裝系統，繼續積極鑑定和開發垂直扇出或 VFO 解決方案，預計這將在未來幾年擴大我們的記憶體市場准入。雖然 VFO 記憶體解決方案仍在不斷湧現，但客戶動力強勁，我們預計明年它們將轉向更高批量生產。

In addition to leading memory customers, we continue to actively support key vertical wire development with a leading IDM and fabless company, who are demanding these new solutions. The benefit of our unique vertical wire solution extends well beyond the memory market. Vertical wire is currently moving into high-volume production for shielding requirements and is well positioned to provide a new cost-effective packaging solution for future high-volume system-in-package applications. Our VFO team is currently supporting development of future stack connectivity application, which can drive high-volume adoption.

除了領先的記憶體客戶外，我們還繼續積極支援一家領先的 IDM 和無晶圓廠公司的關鍵垂直線開發，這些公司需要這些新的解決方案。我們獨特的垂直佈線解決方案的優勢遠遠超出了記憶體市場。垂直線目前正進入大批量生產以滿足屏蔽要求，並處於有利位置，可以為未來大批量系統級封裝應用提供新的經濟高效的封裝解決方案。我們的 VFO 團隊目前正在支援未來堆疊連接應用程式的開發，這可以推動大規模採用。

Next, our Advanced Dispense business continued to gain momentum as we are aggressively penetrating high-precision dispense opportunities in advanced packaging, battery assembly and the display market. Broadening customer interest and ongoing evaluation progress are driving momentum, and we expect to begin growing our market share in the near term. Our Advanced Dispense solutions are highly competitive due to their micro-dispensing capability being equipped with self compensation, in-line inspection and excellent repeatability. Qualifications win over the coming quarter will secure a foundation of Advanced Dispense customers, which will support revenue growth in fiscal 2025 and beyond.

接下來，隨著我們積極滲透先進封裝、電池組裝和顯示器市場的高精度點膠機會，我們的高級點膠業務繼續保持成長勢頭。不斷擴大的客戶興趣和持續的評估進度正在推動這一勢頭，我們預計在短期內開始增加我們的市場份額。我們的高級點膠解決方案具有高度競爭力，因為它們的微點膠功能配備了自我補償、線上檢測和出色的重複性。下一季獲得的資格將為 Advanced Dispense 客戶奠定基礎，這將支持 2025 財年及以後的營收成長。

Finally, we continue to gain momentum in Thermocompression bonding or TCB, which has expanded in revenue by nearly 4x comparing the trailing 4 quarters of demand over our fiscal 2021 results. As customer momentum continued to build, it is becoming clear that our TCB solution can broadly support and scale chiplet and heterogeneous integration. Furthermore, we continue to expect demand for our leading Fluxless TCB solution to increase significantly in the future.

最後，我們在熱壓黏合（TCB）領域繼續保持強勁勢頭，與我們 2021 財年業績的過去 4 個季度的需求相比，該領域的收入增長了近 4 倍。隨著客戶動力的不斷增強，我們的 TCB 解決方案可以廣泛支援和擴展小晶片和異構集成，這一點變得越來越明顯。此外，我們仍然預計未來對我們領先的無助焊劑 TCB 解決方案的需求將顯著增加。

We have already build a baseline of approximately $60 million of sales during fiscal year 2023 and currently have active new engagement with over 10 separate Fluxless TCB opportunities supporting key IDM, OSAT and Foundry customers. We continue to receive multiple inquiries for additional TCB opportunities with other customers. This funnel of growing demand across a wide customer base serves as a testament that we are in the early stage of TCB growth.

我們已經在 2023 財年建立了約 6,000 萬美元銷售額的基準，目前正在與 10 多個獨立的無助焊劑 TCB 機會進行積極的新合作，以支持主要的 IDM、OSAT 和 Foundry 客戶。我們不斷收到多個關於與其他客戶合作的額外 TCB 機會的詢問。廣泛客戶群不斷增長的需求證明我們正處於 TCB 成長的早期階段。

The need to efficiently create more transistor-dense package will only accelerate this market momentum. Our Fluxless TCB solutions are extremely well positioned for the next wave of demand, and we remain committed to near-term execution. Upon near-term customer qualification success and the healthy customer demand trajectory, we anticipate our dedicated Advanced Packaging solution, which including free-chip mass reflow, TCB and wafer-level-packaging system to approach $200 million in annual revenue by fiscal year 2025.

有效地創建更密集的電晶體封裝的需求只會加速這一市場勢頭。我們的無助焊劑 TCB 解決方案非常適合下一波需求，我們仍然致力於近期執行。根據近期客戶資格認證的成功和健康的客戶需求軌跡，我們預計到2025 財年，我們專用的先進封裝解決方案（包括免費晶片大規模回流焊接、TCB 和晶圓級封裝系統）的年收入將接近2 億美元。

Contingent upon near-term qualification and the business execution, growth across Advanced Packaging applications is anticipated to further accelerate. Looking more near term, new engagement for next-generation high-bandwidth memory or HBM can potentially begin shipping as early as this calendar year. Also, all unique copper-to-copper capability has a very strong customer momentum and could potentially delay higher volume adoption of hybrid bonding due to a more competitive cost of ownership.

根據近期資格和業務執行情況，先進封裝應用的成長預計將進一步加速。從更近期的角度來看，下一代高頻寬記憶體或 HBM 的新合作可能最早在今年開始出貨。此外，所有獨特的銅對銅功能都具有非常強大的客戶動力，並且由於更具競爭力的擁有成本，可能會推遲混合鍵合的大規模採用。

Currently, our Advanced Solutions team remains very focused on near-term consumer engagement with a leading IDM, OSAT and Foundry customers. This broad group of customers require a cost-effective process that support high bandwidth, fine-pitch interconnect and the stacked-die capabilities. Our leading Fluxless TCB solution are well positioned to support high volume copper-to-copper interconnect with a pitch from 35 to 5 microns. Our capability to pick from tray, tape and reel or wafer and bond to substrate, chip or wafer is robust and expected to support the broad future market of Thermocompression bonding.

目前，我們的高階解決方案團隊仍然非常注重與領先的 IDM、OSAT 和 Foundry 客戶的近期消費者互動。這一廣泛的客戶群需要一種支援高頻寬、細間距互連和堆疊晶片功能的經濟高效的製程。我們領先的無助焊劑 TCB 解決方案能夠很好地支援間距為 35 至 5 微米的大容量銅對銅互連。我們從托盤、捲帶或晶圓中拾取並鍵合到基板、晶片或晶圓的能力非常強大，預計將支援熱壓鍵合的廣闊未來市場。

Today, our Fluxless TCB solutions are best in class and have allowed us to be first to mass production through our engagement with a leading IDM. In parallel, we have also continued to take share with the leading OSAT as they begin to ramp 3D assembly for high-growth and high-volume markets such as mobile, sensing and the co-packaged optics. We made significant progress over recent years to expand our TCB shares across this initial base of IDM and the OSAT customers, who we have built long-term relationship.

如今，我們的無助焊劑 TCB 解決方案是同類最佳的，使我們能夠透過與領先的 IDM 合作率先實現大規模生產。同時，我們也繼續與領先的 OSAT 分享市場份額，因為他們開始為高成長和大批量的市場（例如移動、感測和聯合封裝光學元件）加大 3D 組裝的力度。近年來，我們在擴大 IDM 和 OSAT 客戶的 TCB 份額方面取得了重大進展，我們已與這些客戶建立了長期合作關係。

Over the past few quarters, we have continued to allocate additional R&D resources towards specific foundry opportunities, which we anticipate can present a sizable portion of the future TCB marketplace. Today, our global TCB team is actively engaged to support the future interconnect need throughout all of our customer engagements. We look forward to announcing additional qualification win and a new partnership over the coming quarters.

在過去的幾個季度中，我們繼續將額外的研發資源分配給特定的代工機會，我們預計這些機會將在未來的 TCB 市場中佔據相當大的份額。今天，我們的全球 TCB 團隊積極參與所有客戶活動，以支援未來的互連需求。我們期待在未來幾季宣布贏得更多資格並建立新的合作夥伴關係。

In closing, we continue to look forward to a brighter 2025. We have an intense focus on enhancing operational efficiencies, are preparing for a core market recovery and continuing to support key technology transitions with our growing Memory, Advanced Dispense and Advanced Packaging opportunities. We look forward to sharing our near-term progress, which will solidify our foundation for future growth.

最後，我們繼續展望更光明的 2025 年。我們期待分享我們的近期進展，這將為我們未來的成長奠定基礎。

I will now turn the call over to Lester for the financial review update. Lester?

我現在將把電話轉給萊斯特，以了解最新的財務審查情況。萊斯特？

Thank you, Fusen. My remarks today will refer to GAAP results unless noted. While there continues to be headwinds across specific end markets, related to macroeconomic and industry conditions, it continues to remain an exciting time for the company. As Fusen mentioned, we are pleased to see improving order activity with higher volume customers and anticipate additional groups of customers to begin ramping for both capacity and technology needs over the near term.

謝謝你，福森。除非另有說明，我今天的演講將參考公認會計準則結果。儘管特定終端市場仍然存在與宏觀經濟和行業狀況相關的不利因素，但這對公司來說仍然是一個令人興奮的時期。正如 Fusen 所提到的，我們很高興看到更多客戶的訂單活動有所改善，並預計更多客戶群將在短期內開始滿足產能和技術需求。

During the March quarter, we generated $172.1 million of revenue and a 9.6% gross margin. Without this quarter's unique charges gross margin would have been similar to the prior quarter. During this recent quarter, we booked pre-tax charges, including impairments in the amount of $105.5 million. As you recall, we announced in March 11 that the company has anticipated pre-tax charges, including impairments relating to the cancellation of Project W to be between the low estimate of $110 million and a high estimate of $130 million. By the end of fiscal year 2024 and we expect our total charges to come in below our high estimate of $130 million.

在 3 月季度，我們實現了 1.721 億美元的營收和 9.6% 的毛利率。如果沒有本季的獨特費用，毛利率將與上一季相似。在最近一個季度，我們登記了稅前費用，包括 1.055 億美元的減損。您還記得，我們​​在 3 月 11 日宣布，該公司預計稅前費用（包括與取消 W 項目相關的減損）將在 1.1 億美元的最低估計值和 1.3 億美元的最高估計值之間。到 2024 財年結束時，我們預計總費用將低於我們最高估計的 1.3 億美元。

In addition to reallocating key R&D members through in-demand projects, we prudently reduce resources, which have directly and indirectly supported Project W. We booked GAAP tax expenses of $6.4 million for the March quarter, which included tax items related to unique events during the quarter. We continue to anticipate an effective tax rate above 20% through the remainder of fiscal year 2024.

In addition to reallocating key R&D members through in-demand projects, we prudently reduce resources, which have directly and indirectly supported Project W. We booked GAAP tax expenses of $6.4 million for the March quarter, which included tax items related to unique events during the四分之一.我們繼續預期 2024 財年剩餘時間內的有效稅率將高於 20%。

Our repurchase program remain opportunistic, and we have again increased our repurchase activity sequentially. During the March quarter, we booked $37.3 million of open market repurchases activity, which represents a sequential increase of nearly 40% over the December quarter. Although gradual, recent order activity increases expectations of broader general semiconductor end market growth. We continue to anticipate near-term headwinds within the automotive and power semiconductor end markets and also anticipate approximately $15 million of lost revenue relating to the cancellation of Project W in the second fiscal half.

我們的回購計劃仍然是機會主義的，我們再次連續增加了回購活動。在 3 月季度，我們預訂了 3,730 萬美元的公開市場回購活動，比 12 月季度季增了近 40%。儘管是漸進的，但最近的訂單活動增加了對更廣泛的一般半導體終端市場成長的預期。我們繼續預期汽車和功率半導體終端市場近期將面臨阻力，並預計下半年因取消 W 專案而造成約 1,500 萬美元的收入損失。

Looking into the June quarter, we expect revenue of approximately $180 million, plus or minus $10 million, with gross margins of 47%. Non-GAAP operating expenses are anticipated to be $72 million plus or minus 2%, which includes additional wind down expenses of approximately $2.5 million. Collectively, for the June quarter, we expect GAAP EPS of $0.17 per share and non-GAAP EPS of $0.30 per share.

展望 6 月季度，我們預計營收約 1.8 億美元，上下浮動 1,000 萬美元，毛利率為 47%。非 GAAP 營運費用預計為 7,200 萬美元正負 2%，其中包括約 250 萬美元的額外縮減費用。總的來說，對於第二季度，我們預計 GAAP 每股收益為 0.17 美元，非 GAAP 每股收益為 0.30 美元。

Over the coming quarters, we look forward to providing additional updates as we reach new milestones, which will help build a foundation in Memory, Dispense and Thermocompression opportunities over the coming years. This concludes our prepared comments.

在接下來的幾個季度中，我們期待在達到新的里程碑時提供更多更新，這將有助於在未來幾年的記憶體、分配和熱壓縮機會方面奠定基礎。我們準備好的評論到此結束。

Operator, please open the call for questions.

接線員，請打開電話提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Krish Sankar with TD Cowen.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Krish Sankar 和 TD Cowen。

First one on your general semi core wire bonder business. It looks like that's kind of bouncing off the bottom. Fusen, do you think that, is this a cyclical recovery for the wire bonder business, i.e., utilization rates are going up for OSATs and you're beginning to see through and demand pull through? Or is this more bouncing off the bottom until visibility gets better?

第一篇關於您的通用半芯焊接線機業務。看起來像是從底部反彈。 Fusen，您認為這是焊線機業務的周期性復甦嗎？或者在能見度變得更好之前，它會更多地從底部反彈嗎？

Well, Krish, I believe, in general, the recovery was not strong enough as expanded last quarter. Automotive, core semi and LED was the center of (inaudible) when we have general semiconductor recovery, right? But even with this, actually, second quarter are mitigated by stronger Ball Bonder improvement. In fact, Ball Bonder, has an increase in revenue by 55% in Q2 of '24 versus '23. So going to Q3, even general semi continued to go up, but the LED and the core semi and auto also increase -- incrementally also a bit weaker.

好吧，克里什，我相信，總體而言，復甦力度不夠強，如上個季度擴大的那樣。當我們半導體整體復甦時，汽車、核心半導體和 LED 是（聽不清楚）的中心，對吧？但即便如此，實際上，第二季的情況也因球焊機的改良而有所緩解。事實上，Ball Bonder 在 24 年第二季的營收比 23 年成長了 55%。因此，進入第三季度，即使通用半導體繼續上漲，但 LED 和核心半導體和汽車也有所增長 - 增量也有點弱。

So what I should say is I think this industry probably need a little bit more Ball Bonder recovery. And even we have a general semiconductor recovery, we also have a headwind in auto (inaudible). As a result, actually part of that, they actually cancel together, right? But what I can say is I think our '25 will be a better year for us. If we see some recovery in TCB, phone and auto, this should be very easy to add on Ball Bonder in a much bigger way, right? So I don't know if I answer your questions. I think a recovery is ongoing way. But when we have an increase in general semi, we also see the -- we're going (inaudible) was the reason, I think it was a bit slower.

所以我應該說的是，我認為這個行業可能需要更多的球焊機復甦。即使半導體產業整體復甦，汽車產業也面臨逆風（聽不清楚）。結果，實際上其中一部分，他們實際上一起取消了，對嗎？但我能說的是，我認為我們的 25 年對我們來說將會是更好的一年。如果我們看到 TCB、電話和汽車出現一些復甦，那麼這應該很容易以更大的方式添加到 Ball Bonder 上，對吧？所以我不知道我是否回答了你的問題。我認為復甦正在持續進行。但是，當我們的半成品數量增加時，我們也看到了——我們要去（聽不清楚）是原因，我認為速度有點慢。

But looking forward, we expect the recovery that will be more broader and in PC, phone and auto. And at this moment, even we have a stronger Ball Bonder 55% above the trough. But still only 40% of FY '24 revenue compared to the peak. So I think our recovery still have a long way to go and probably this industry needs a little bit broader recovery.

但展望未來，我們預計 PC、手機和汽車領域的復甦將更加廣泛。此時此刻，即使我們在波谷上方 55% 處也有更強的 Ball Bonder。但與高峰相比，仍僅佔 24 財年營收的 40%。因此，我認為我們的復甦還有很長的路要走，而且這個行業可能需要更廣泛的復甦。

Got it. Got it. And then one other quick follow-up. Can you give us an update on your TCB qualification of the Taiwan foundry? I thought that you -- the call is expected to be done around this time where the end customer is going from hybrid warning to TCB. Can you give us an update there?

知道了。知道了。然後是另一個快速跟進。可否介紹一下台灣代工廠TCB資質的最新狀況？我認為您的電話預計將在此時完成，最終客戶將從混合警告轉向 TCB。你能給我們更新一下嗎？

Okay. Krish, let me first to tell you. I think the hybrid bonding and the TCB actually (inaudible) exists in this market. So (inaudible) -- Okay, I can tell you this, the foundry is one of several priority engagement for us at this moment. And we have actually engagement and qualification for multiple application with our new Fluxless technology layer, right? So it's not only a single project. As I mentioned, we are currently the first and only Fluxless technology provider in the mass production for the whole industry.

好的。克里什，讓我先告訴你。我認為混合鍵合和 TCB 實際上（聽不清楚）存在於這個市場中。所以（聽不清楚）——好吧，我可以告訴你，鑄造廠是我們目前優先考慮的幾個項目之一。我們實際上擁有新的無助焊劑技術層的多種應用的參與和資格，對吧？所以這不僅僅是一個項目。正如我所提到的，我們是目前全行業第一家也是唯一一家大規模生產的無助焊劑技術提供者。

And the Advanced Technology process in Foundry is always relented and the production of this new advanced technology for production is intended for CY' '25. And we are in early discussions for shipments to begin in the first half of CY '25, right? So we expect to reach a new short-term milestones and give you update during or prior to our next call, right? So what I try to tell you, I think that we feel like the progress is good, but the qualification in Foundry really take very, very lengthy.

鑄造廠的先進技術工藝始終是溫和的，這種新的先進技術的生產計劃於 CY' '25 進行。我們正在早期討論在 CY '25 上半年開始發貨，對吧？因此，我們希望達到新的短期里程碑，並在下次電話會議期間或之前向您提供最新信息，對吧？所以我想告訴你的是，我認為我們感覺進展很好，但 Foundry 的資格認證確實需要非常非常長的時間。

Let me give you an example. We anticipate this Foundry relationship to progress share to our engagement on the IDM side. We began to engage in 2021 and begin to actually figure shares 18 months later, right? So qualification can take a little bit longer. And this is the TCB application. And TCB, actually is increasing importance in the beginning, and we have a very good presence in OSAT as well as IDM, than we do expect. It's just a matter of time since we have multiple projects, we will grow our shares in Foundry in coming quarters.

讓我舉一個例子。我們預計與 Foundry 的合作將進一步推動我們與 IDM 的合作。我們開始涉足2021年，並在18個月後開始實際計算份額，對嗎？因此，獲得資格可能需要更長的時間。這就是 TCB 應用程式。 TCB 實際上在一開始就變得越來越重要，我們在 OSAT 和 IDM 領域的表現都比我們預期的要好。由於我們有多個項目，這只是時間問題，我們將在未來幾季增加我們在 Foundry 的持股。

Our next question comes from Dave Duley with Steelhead Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自 Steelhead 證券公司的 Dave Duley。

I also have a follow-up on Thermocompression bonding. I guess one of your competitors had a conference call a few days ago talking about how they thought that all the memory guys are going to pursue kind of a dual strategy with both Thermocompression bonding and hybrid bonding. And I think they implied the Thermocompression bonding would be the kind of technology of choice for HBM3 and HBM4. I'm just wondering where we are at as far as working with the memory guys with Thermocompression bonding? And do you see TCB as the near-term solution for stacking these memory die? Or will they continue to use the current technology?

我還對熱壓粘合進行了跟進。我猜你的一位競爭對手幾天前召開了一次電話會議，討論了他們如何認為所有記憶體專家都將尋求熱壓鍵合和混合鍵合的雙重策略。我認為他們暗示熱壓粘合將是 HBM3 和 HBM4 的首選技術。我只是想知道我們在與記憶體專家進行熱壓接合方面的合作進展如何？您是否認為 TCB 是堆疊這些記憶體晶片的近期解決方案？或者他們會繼續使用當前的技術嗎？

Okay. So we actually believe TCB right now is a production tool and next generation will still be TCB. One of the reasons I think is capability. The other reason is really the cost. We are engaging a next generation of HBM. And our working together system probably potentially will be issued by end of this year, fiscal -- calendar year.

好的。所以我們實際上相信 TCB 目前是一種生產工具，下一代仍將是 TCB。我認為原因之一是能力。另一個原因確實是成本。我們正在採用下一代 HBM。我們的合作系統可能會在今年財年年底發布。

I think we also have another exciting project we call VFO. This is a project actually can physically reduce the form factor of a memory package by 40% and also increase IO as well as improved electoral performance. The first production actually is intended for low-power DDR, but one of a memory customer also have a road map for HBM, but will not be for the like next generation HBM. But actually one of our customers has a potential to be as a HBM.

我想我們還有另一個令人興奮的項目，我們稱之為 VFO。這個項目實際上可以將記憶體封裝的外形尺寸減少 40%，同時增加 IO 並提高選舉表現。第一個生產實際上是針對低功耗 DDR 的，但其中一位記憶體客戶也有 HBM 的路線圖，但不會像下一代 HBM 那樣。但實際上我們的一位客戶有潛力成為 HBM。

So we actually work on both ways. TCB, we actually focus on heterogenous integration and chiplet. This is for advanced logic. But for the memory, actually, we have VFO, actually both of our project will increase our potential revenue. So to answer your question, I think the TCB is a focus, and we believe TCB is used that is simple and capable. And we believe current generation and next-generation of HBM is going to be TCB.

所以我們實際上是在兩種方式上工作。 TCB，我們實際上專注於異質整合和chiplet。這是為了高級邏輯。但對於記憶體來說，實際上我們有VFO，實際上我們的兩個項目都會增加我們的潛在收入。所以回答你的問題，我認為TCB是一個焦點，我們相信TCB的使用是簡單而強大的。我們相信當前世代和下一代 HBM 將是 TCB。

Okay. Great. And my second question has to do with the core business. You announced a 1,000-unit order, I guess, for a new wire bonder. I'm assuming this is the first big order that you've received. Would it be fair to assume usually when you get one big order, you start to collect other large orders from the other OSATs or IDMs, because they all kind of tend to order at the same time. Is that the assumption that we should start to make here is that you're starting to roll up these big orders on a more consistent basis?

好的。偉大的。我的第二個問題與核心業務有關。我想，您宣布了 1,000 台新焊線機的訂單。我假設這是您收到的第一筆大訂單。可以公平地假設，通常當您收到一份大訂單時，您就會開始從其他 OSAT 或 IDM 收集其他大訂單，因為它們都傾向於同時訂購。我們應該在這裡開始做出的假設是，您開始在更一致的基礎上匯總這些大訂單嗎？

Well, Dave, it's Lester. We are definitely seeing, over the last couple of months, gradually improving order requests as well as customer increase RFQs. The POs are starting to come, as we indicated, this one big PO is starting to come in. We do see the utilization rates also creeping up. So that also is an indicator of higher volume purchases. And even in the weaker end markets, we are starting to get some discussion with customers about their sort of future demand. So yes, I would say that we do believe that, as Fusen said earlier, the second half will be better than the first half, but definitely early FY '25, that's when the ramp probably should kick off.

嗯，戴夫，這是萊斯特。在過去的幾個月裡，我們確實看到訂單請求逐漸改善，客戶詢價也不斷增加。正如我們所指出的，採購訂單開始出現，這一大採購訂單開始出現。因此，這也是購買量增加的指標。即使在較弱的終端市場，我們也開始與客戶討論他們的未來需求。所以，是的，我想說的是，我們確實相信，正如 Fusen 之前所說，下半年會比上半年更好，但肯定是在 25 財年初期，那時斜坡可能應該開始。

Our next question comes from Tom Diffely with D.A. Davidson.

我們的下一個問題來自 Tom Diffely 和 D.A.戴維森。

Yes. Fusen, on the memory side, nice explanation of the vertical fan-out and the Thermocompression bonder. Curious though, are those all just focused on the DRAM market? Because historically, you've been stronger on the flash side or the NAND side. So curious if these technologies are looking at both memory types or just DRAM?

是的。 Fusen，在記憶體方面，對垂直扇出和熱壓接合器做了很好的解釋。但好奇的是，這些都只專注於 DRAM 市場嗎？因為從歷史上看，你在閃存或 NAND 方面一直更強大。很好奇這些技術是針對兩種記憶體類型還是只針對 DRAM？

Actually, thank you for the question, Tom. At this moment, memory market is recovering. At this moment, we believe our NAND play a little bit stronger low but go back to your question, vertical fan-out, we are working with all the memory customers. This is a very exciting, all are memory customer and behind that actually is a bigger IDM company. We actually have the DRAM with all the memory customers, but we also have one NAND company working with us for the vertical panel, right? So to answer your question, this is a vertical fan-out, we believe, just at the initial stage. Start with low-power DDR and even NAND, I think, it get started for the development. In the future, is going to be applicable for other applications, not only memory only, right? So I hope I answered your question.

事實上，謝謝你提出這個問題，湯姆。目前，記憶體市場正在復甦。目前，我們相信我們的 NAND 在低端表現更強一些，但回到你的問題，垂直扇出，我們正在與所有內存客戶合作。這是一個非常令人興奮的事情，都是記憶體客戶，背後其實是一家更大的IDM公司。我們實際上擁有所有記憶體客戶的 DRAM，但我們也有一家 NAND 公司與我們合作生產垂直面板，對嗎？因此，回答你的問題，我們認為，這是一個垂直扇出，只是處於初始階段。我認為從低功耗DDR甚至NAND開始發展。將來，將適用於其他應用程序，而不僅僅是內存，對吧？所以我希望我回答了你的問題。

Yes. No, perfect. And then a follow-up on the display side, I guess, few-part question here. First is how fungible are the -- is the team going from display to TCB and dispense and then with the exit of Project W, what is your outlook for display for your other sets of tools?

是的。沒有十全十美的。然後是顯示方面的後續問題，我想，這裡有幾個部分的問題。首先是可替代性如何——團隊是否從展示轉向 TCB 並分配，然後隨著 Project W 的退出，您對其他工具集的展示前景有何看法？

Okay. So let me answer your second question. I think the micro LED is somewhat unclear due to the project cancellation. The impact of the industry actually is really rare. So micro LED, we do believe is a setback for the whole industry for a few years, not sure 2 years, 3 years. But despite change in micro LED, high-speed pick-and-place die transfer system is still needed for the (inaudible) application and this will be still a good opportunity for our LUMINEX . And at this moment, actually, we are still targeting smaller die size, mini LED for direct initiative, large format display with a high volume opportunity for our LUMINEX in the second half of CY '25, right?

好的。那麼讓我來回答你的第二個問題。我認為由於項目取消，micro LED 有點不清楚。這個行業的影響力其實是非常罕見的。所以micro LED，我們確實相信整個產業會遭受幾年的挫折，不確定是2年、3年。但是，儘管 micro LED 發生了變化，（聽不清楚）應用仍然需要高速取放晶片傳輸系統，這對我們的 LUMINEX 來說仍然是一個很好的機會。事實上，目前我們的目標仍然是更小的晶片尺寸、用於直接主動的迷你 LED、大尺寸顯示器，以及我們的 LUMINEX 在 CY '25 下半年的高產量機會，對吧？

So the project is ongoing. But in terms of people, actually really depends on the capability of people, right? If the project canceled for sure impacts some of our people. For some people, if we can actually continue for them to contribute on the company, I think a mechanical engineer is a mechanical engineer. So we do also keep a big part of the people and in a useful project for the futures.

所以該項目正在進行中。但對人來說，其實真的要看人的能力，對吧？如果該項目取消肯定會影響我們的一些人。對某些人來說，如果我們真的能夠繼續讓他們為公司做出貢獻，我認為機械工程師就是機械工程師。因此，我們也確實保留了很大一部分人員，並參與了對未來有用的專案。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Ross Cole with Needham & Co.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Needham & Co. 的 Ross Cole。

On behalf of Charles Shi. So my question is, can you describe the significance of the 1,000 system order from this fast-growing assembly and test customer? What kind of ASP uplift should we be thinking about relative to your more standard Ball Bonder systems?

代表查爾斯施。所以我的問題是，您能描述一下這個快速成長的組裝和測試客戶的 1,000 個系統訂單的意義嗎？相對於您更標準的球焊機系統，我們應該考慮什麼樣的 ASP 提升？

Well, Ross, I guess this is one of more advanced Ball Bonder system. It's a China-based customer. Again, it's about 1,000 machine order and again serve mostly the general semi applications, consumer, smartphones, PC. Again, this is some of our most leading technology. And again, the customer not only bought a significant amount of new bonders, they also upgraded their existing bonders with our new ProSuite, which is our advanced bonding looping software.

好吧，羅斯，我想這是更先進的球焊機系統之一。這是一位中國客戶。同樣，它的機器訂單量約為 1,000 台，並且主要服務於一般半導體應用、消費者、智慧型手機、PC。同樣，這是我們最領先的技術。再說一遍，客戶不僅購買了大量的新鍵合機，還使用我們的新 ProSuite（我們先進的鍵合循環軟體）升級了現有的鍵合機。

Great. And then could I ask a second question as well. What was the backlog like exiting the March quarter? Can you provide some directional color if you don't want to quantify it?

偉大的。然後我可以問第二個問題嗎？三月季度的積壓情況如何？如果您不想量化，您可以提供一些定向顏色嗎？

Sure. So I think the book-to-bill for the quarter was approximately about 1, which has -- pretty much the normalized level other than when you're in a ramp or in a trough cycle. So we have seen bookings improved, backlog has come down, as we said, as we burn down some of the orders that was -- that we received during the ramp. So I think it's much more at a normalized level now, similar to our lead times, which is about 8 to 12 weeks of Ball Bonder and about 12 to 16 for Wedge bonder.

當然。因此，我認為本季的訂單出貨比約為 1，這幾乎是標準化水平，除非處於上升或低谷週期。因此，正如我們所說，我們看到預訂量有所改善，積壓訂單有所減少，因為我們銷毀了在增產期間收到的一些訂單。所以我認為現在更處於標準化水平，類似於我們的交貨時間，球焊機的交貨時間約為 8 至 12 週，楔形焊接機的交貨時間約為 12 至 16 週。

There are no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn the floor back over to Joe Elgindy for closing comments.

目前沒有其他問題。我現在想把發言權交還給喬·埃爾金迪（Joe Elgindy）發表結束評論。

Thank you, Maria, and thank you all for joining today's call. Over the coming quarter, we'll be presenting at conferences in Minneapolis, New York and San Francisco. As always, please feel free to follow up directly with any additional questions. This concludes today's call. And have a great day, everyone.

謝謝瑪麗亞，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。在下個季度，我們將在明尼阿波利斯、紐約和舊金山舉行的會議上進行演示。與往常一樣，如果有任何其他問題，請隨時直接跟進。今天的電話會議到此結束。祝大家有美好的一天。