Anywhere Real Estate Inc (HOUS) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Welcome to the Anywhere Real Estate Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call via webcast. Today's call is being recorded and a written transcript will be made available in the Investor Information section of the company's website tomorrow. A webcast replay will also be made available on the company's website.

早上好。歡迎通過網絡廣播參加 Anywhere Real Estate 2023 年第二季度收益電話會議。今天的電話會議正在錄音，明天將在公司網站的投資者信息部分提供書面記錄。該公司網站上還將提供網絡廣播重播。

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Anywhere's Senior Vice President, Alicia Swift. Please go ahead, Alicia.

這次，我想將會議轉交給 Anywhere 的高級副總裁 Alicia Swift。請繼續，艾麗西亞。

Thank you, Breanna. Good morning, and welcome to the Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call for Anywhere Real Estate. On the call with me today are Anywhere's CEO and President, Ryan Schneider; and Chief Financial Officer, Charlotte Simonelli.

謝謝你，布里安娜。早上好，歡迎參加 Anywhere Real Estate 2023 年第二季度收益電話會議。今天與我通話的是 Anywhere 首席執行官兼總裁 Ryan Schneider；首席財務官夏洛特·西蒙內利。

As shown on Slide 3 of the presentation, the company will be making statements about its future results and other forward-looking statements during this call. These statements are based on the current expectations and the current economic environment. Forward-looking statements, estimates and projections are inherently subject to significant economic, competitive, litigation, regulatory, and other uncertainties and contingencies, many of which are beyond the control of management, including, among others, industry and macroeconomic development and the incurrence of liabilities that are in excess of amounts accrued or payments made in connection with pending litigation. Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied in the forward-looking statements.

如演示文稿幻燈片 3 所示，該公司將在本次電話會議期間發表有關其未來業績的聲明和其他前瞻性聲明。這些陳述是基於當前的預期和當前的經濟環境。前瞻性陳述、估計和預測本質上受到重大經濟、競爭、訴訟、監管以及其他不確定性和意外事件的影響，其中許多因素超出了管理層的控制範圍，其中包括行業和宏觀經濟發展以及超過與未決訴訟相關的應計金額或支付金額的負債。實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中明示或暗示的結果存在重大差異。

Important assumptions and factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements are specified in our earnings release issued today as well as our annual and quarterly SEC filings. Note that nothing we say today should be construed as an offer or solicitation to purchase, sell or tender any securities. For those who listen to the rebroadcast of this presentation, we remind you that the remarks made herein are as of today, July 25, and have not been updated subsequent to the initial earnings call.

我們今天發布的收益報告以及我們向 SEC 提交的年度和季度文件中詳細說明了可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中的結果存在重大差異的重要假設和因素。請注意，我們今天所說的任何內容均不應被解釋為購買、出售或投標任何證券的要約或招攬。對於那些收聽重播本演示文稿的人，我們提醒您，本文中的言論截至今天 7 月 25 日，在首次財報電話會議後尚未更新。

Now I will turn the call over to our CEO and President, Ryan Schneider.

現在我將把電話轉給我們的首席執行官兼總裁 Ryan Schneider。

Thank you, Alicia. Good morning, everyone. In the midst of a challenging housing market, we delivered results in line with our expectations and continue to invest to set Anywhere Real Estate out for an even stronger future.

謝謝你，艾麗西亞。大家，早安。在充滿挑戰的房地產市場中，我們取得了符合我們預期的業績，並繼續投資，為 Anywhere Real Estate 創造更美好的未來。

During the second quarter, we delivered $1.7 billion of revenue and generated $126 million of operating EBITDA. Our closed transaction volume was in line with our estimates and we are on track to deliver $200 million of cost savings this year, and our agent commission results came in better than expected with some of the best year-over-year results we've seen in a long time.

第二季度，我們實現了 17 億美元的收入，並產生了 1.26 億美元的運營 EBITDA。我們的已完成交易量符合我們的預期，今年我們有望節省 2 億美元的成本，而且我們的代理佣金結果好於預期，是我們見過的最好的同比結果在很長的時間。

We remained focused on improving our capital structure, especially our priority to deleverage our balance sheet. And today, we announced a debt exchange transaction with one of our bondholders and our intention to conduct a broader exchange offering on similar terms. And importantly, we continue to invest in to drive our strategic agenda, which includes growing our high-margin franchise business, expanding our luxury leadership position, simplifying and integrating the consumer transaction experience, and further transforming our cost base as we position Anywhere Real Estate to both benefit from a stronger housing market and to lead into the future.

我們仍然專注於改善資本結構，特別是去槓桿化資產負債表。今天，我們宣布與一位債券持有人進行債務交換交易，並打算以類似條款進行更廣泛的交換發行。重要的是，我們繼續投資以推動我們的戰略議程，其中包括發展我們的高利潤特許經營業務、擴大我們的奢侈品領導地位、簡化和整合消費者交易體驗，以及在我們定位Anywhere Real Estate 時進一步改變我們的成本基礎既受益於更強勁的房地產市場，又引領未來。

Now starting with the housing market, we remain in a tough part of the cycle. With 6 months of the year behind us, it looks like our industry is heading toward 4.2 million to 4.3 million annual unit transactions, which would be by far the lowest level in over a decade. And if you look past the great recession, we've not seen unit transactions this low since the mid-90s. But we planned for a challenging 2023, took aggressive actions in both cost reductions and investing for the future, and we are seeing our volume metrics come in consistent with our expectations that we shared with you.

現在從房地產市場開始，我們仍處於週期的艱難階段。距離今年過去 6 個月，我們的行業似乎正朝著 420 萬至 430 萬的年度交易量邁進，這將是十多年來的最低水平。如果你回顧一下大衰退的過去，就會發現自 20 世紀 90 年代中期以來，我們從未見過如此低的單位交易量。但我們規劃了充滿挑戰的 2023 年，在降低成本和投資未來方面採取了積極行動，我們看到我們的銷量指標與我們與您分享的預期一致。

Q2 transaction volume was down 23% year-over-year. The decline was almost all unit-driven and we saw unit volume decline to be pretty consistent across our markets. Our home prices were basically flat year-over-year as we've all seen incredibly tight inventory, creating supply challenges even in this higher mortgage rate environment. However, we see significant geographic variation in price trends in our results. Across about 2/3 of the country, including large states like Texas and Florida, we saw price increases on average by about 3% versus last year. But a few of the bigger markets, in particular, California and New York, we saw prices down in the mid-single digits, consistent with our first quarter trends.

第二季度交易量同比下降 23%。下降幾乎都是由單位驅動的，我們發現整個市場的單位銷量下降相當一致。我們的房價同比基本持平，因為我們都看到庫存極其緊張，即使在抵押貸款利率較高的環境下，也會造成供應挑戰。然而，我們在結果中發現價格趨勢存在顯著的地理差異。在全國約 2/3 的地區，包括德克薩斯州和佛羅里達州等大州，我們發現價格比去年平均上漲了約 3%。但在一些較大的市場，特別是加利福尼亞州和紐約，我們看到價格下降了個位數，這與我們第一季度的趨勢一致。

And in Q2, the more positive detailed trends in our portfolio have persisted. Open volume compared to prior year continues to look better than close volume compared to prior year each month in the quarter. And volume comparisons to 2022 improved each month in the quarter, both as the market has a little more positivity and as the 2022 comparisons get easier. And all of this is consistent with our quarterly and full year guidance.

在第二季度，我們的投資組合中更積極的詳細趨勢持續存在。本季度每個月的未平倉交易量與去年同期相比仍然好於去年同期的平倉交易量。與 2022 年相比，本季度的銷量每個月都有所提高，這既是因為市場的積極性有所提高，又是因為 2022 年的比較變得更加容易。所有這些都與我們的季度和全年指導一致。

Now the challenging housing market affects the entire industry, and we like the fact that it establishes a level-playing field because Anywhere Real Estate is best positioned to prosper because of some of our unique advantages including our high-octane industry-leading franchise business with 6 nationally recognized brands; our opportunities from having end-to-end national assets in brokerage, title, mortgage and insurance; our powerful lead generation in a time when quality lead generation is more important than ever; and our high-impact technology and data scale. And we're harnessing these advantages even in a tough market to charge ahead on our strategic priorities and position Anywhere for long-term success.

現在，充滿挑戰的房地產市場影響著整個行業，我們喜歡它建立了一個公平的競爭環境，因為Anywhere Real Estate 憑藉我們的一些獨特優勢，包括我們高辛烷值的行業領先的特許經營業務，最有利於繁榮發展。 6個國家知名品牌；我們在經紀、產權、抵押貸款和保險領域擁有端到端國有資產的機會；在質量潛在客戶開發比以往任何時候都更加重要的時代，我們強大的潛在客戶開發能力；以及我們高影響力的技術和數據規模。即使在嚴峻的市場中，我們也能利用這些優勢來推進我們的戰略重點，並在任何地方取得長期成功。

Some examples of that include, first, we are laser-focused on changing how we operate to deliver efficiencies that help simplify, automate and streamline our operations. We continue to make considerable progress in our cost transformation and expect to take $200 million of costs out of our business in 2023, and Charlotte will share more on this shortly. Second, we are integrating our national brokerage and title support operations to make the real estate transaction simpler for the agent and consumer, to make it easier for us to capture title and mortgage economics, and to be more cost-effective as we streamline those businesses.

其中的一些例子包括，首先，我們專注於改變我們的運營方式，以提高效率，幫助簡化、自動化和精簡我們的運營。我們在成本轉型方面繼續取得重大進展，預計到 2023 年我們的業務成本將減少 2 億美元，夏洛特很快將分享更多相關信息。其次，我們正在整合我們的全國經紀和產權支持業務，以使代理商和消費者的房地產交易更加簡單，使我們更容易掌握產權和抵押貸款經濟學，並在簡化這些業務時更具成本效益。

Third, we love and put significant effort into growing our powerful franchise business. Beyond the recent record years of franchise sales success, Anywhere Brands is further strengthening its value proposition by providing new and innovative offerings to franchisees. As one example, Anywhere is now using our technology and data scale to help our franchisees achieve better results via our recently launched Affiliate Insights product. This new product helps individual franchisees run their business better by drawing on Anywhere's extensive internal and external data to provide them actionable insights on growth, on their cost base, on agent migration opportunities, and on other critical topics. And I love the demand I'm hearing from our franchisees.

第三，我們熱愛並投入大量精力發展我們強大的特許經營業務。除了最近幾年創紀錄的特許經營銷售成功之外，Anywhere Brands 還通過向特許經營商提供新的創新產品來進一步強化其價值主張。舉個例子，Anywhere 現在正在使用我們的技術和數據規模，通過我們最近推出的 Affiliate Insights 產品來幫助我們的加盟商取得更好的成果。該新產品利用 Anywhere 廣泛的內部和外部數據，為他們提供有關增長、成本基礎、代理遷移機會和其他關鍵主題的可行見解，幫助個體特許經營商更好地運營其業務。我喜歡從我們的特許經營商那裡聽到的需求。

Finally, Anywhere is an innovative technology provider, and we're the industry analytics leader leveraging our unique data scale. We are finding exciting opportunities using generative AI in large language models and we're committed to being on the forefront of this new world in our industry. Now if you look backward, we like the analytics and the machine learning insights we've been using to enhance our business. And so for example, the agent recruiting machine learning model, you've heard me talk about with you before. But today and going forward, we are seeing large language models have real power for real estate's future. For example, augmenting real estate marketing, including designing and executing marketing campaigns. And I'm personally very intrigued by photo and image-based AI innovations like virtual renovations, as well as this, the whole opportunity to simplify the transaction, and we are starting multiple proofs of concept to explore these and other opportunities.

最後，Anywhere 是一家創新技術提供商，我們利用我們獨特的數據規模成為行業分析領導者。我們正在尋找在大型語言模型中使用生成式人工智能的令人興奮的機會，並且我們致力於走在行業新世界的最前沿。現在，如果你回顧過去，我們喜歡我們一直用來增強業務的分析和機器學習見解。例如，代理招聘機器學習模型，您之前已經聽過我與您談論過。但今天和未來，我們看到大型語言模型對房地產的未來具有真正的力量。例如，加強房地產營銷，包括設計和執行營銷活動。我個人對基於照片和圖像的人工智能創新（例如虛擬翻新）以及簡化交易的整個機會非常感興趣，我們正在開始多個概念驗證來探索這些機會和其他機會。

Now these new technologies are also already helping us run our company differently. EGR software engineers are using these technologies to code more efficiently. EG, we have a few early pilots where large language models are providing support to our employees. And we're really excited about these new analytic opportunities even in these early days. We still have people looking at the output of our generative AI experiments given the importance of ensuring accuracy. And we have a lot of work to do to both train and tune these models on our specific data and on real estate industry data more broadly. But we're really excited about it. We know these new technologies will change how every company operates, and we're committed to being at the forefront of that journey.

現在，這些新技術也已經幫助我們以不同的方式經營我們的公司。 EGR 軟件工程師正在使用這些技術更有效地進行編碼。 EG，我們有一些早期試點，大型語言模型正在為我們的員工提供支持。即使在早期，我們也對這些新的分析機會感到非常興奮。考慮到確保准確性的重要性，我們仍然有人關注我們的生成式人工智能實驗的輸出。我們還有很多工作要做，根據我們的特定數據和更廣泛的房地產行業數據來訓練和調整這些模型。但我們對此感到非常興奮。我們知道這些新技術將改變每家公司的運營方式，我們致力於走在這一旅程的最前沿。

So I'm going to come back later with a few closing thoughts. But for now, I'm going to turn it over to Charlotte to discuss our results in more detail.

所以我稍後會帶著一些結束的想法回來。但現在，我將把它交給夏洛特來更詳細地討論我們的結果。

Good morning, everyone. We are pleased with our second quarter results given the market dynamics, which continue to improve sequentially as expected. We remain focused on what we can control, reimagining how we operate, driving cost efficiencies, prudently managing cash, and being opportunistic on our capital structure. We believe these actions will enable us to drive differentiated performance and set us up well for when the housing market improves.

大家，早安。鑑於市場動態，我們對第二季度的業績感到滿意，市場動態繼續按預期改善。我們仍然專注於我們可以控制的事情，重新構想我們的運營方式，提高成本效率，審慎管理現金，並對我們的資本結構保持機會主義。我們相信，這些行動將使我們能夠推動差異化的業績，並為我們在房地產市場改善時做好準備。

Now I will highlight our second quarter financial results. Q2 revenue was $1.7 billion, down 22% versus prior year and in line with our transaction volume decline. Q2 operating EBITDA was $126 million, down versus prior year due to lower transaction volume and slightly higher agent commission costs, which were offset in part by cost savings across the enterprise. Q2 free cash flow was $105 million as we prudently managed our cash, which we use in a consistent way with our capital allocation priorities to invest in the business and partially repay some of our revolver borrowings, which stand at $310 million today. Free cash flow in the quarter benefited from improved working capital and the relocation securitization facility.

現在我將重點介紹我們第二季度的財務業績。第二季度收入為 17 億美元，比去年同期下降 22%，與我們的交易量下降一致。第二季度運營 EBITDA 為 1.26 億美元，較上年同期下降，原因是交易量減少和代理佣金成本略高，但整個企業的成本節省部分抵消了這一影響。第二季度自由現金流為1.05 億美元，因為我們審慎地管理了我們的現金，我們以與我們的資本配置優先順序一致的方式使用現金來投資業務並部分償還我們的一些循環借款（目前為3.1億美元）。本季度的自由現金流得益於營運資本的改善和搬遷證券化便利。

Consistent with our capital allocation priorities to reduce our debt, we are pleased with the opportunistic financing transaction we announced this morning with one of our bondholders agreeing to exchange approximately $275 million of their 2029 and 2030 senior notes for approximately $220 million in new 7% second lien 2030 secured notes and our intention to conduct an exchange offer for a portion of the remaining 2029 and 2030 notes on similar terms. As Ryan mentioned, we view these transactions as an opportunistic way to deleverage with minimal incremental annual cash interest expense, while retaining our flexibility going forward.

與我們減少債務的資本配置優先事項相一致，我們對今天早上宣布的機會主義融資交易感到高興，我們的一位債券持有人同意將其2029 年和2030 年優先票據中約2.75 億美元兌換為新的7% 次級債券中約2.2 億美元留置權 2030 年擔保票據，以及我們打算以類似條款對其餘 2029 年和 2030 年票據的一部分進行交換要約。正如瑞安所提到的，我們將這些交易視為一種機會主義的去槓桿化方式，以最小的增量年度現金利息支出，同時保持我們未來的靈活性。

Now let me go into more detail on our business segment performance. Our Anywhere Brands business, which includes leads and relocation, generated $164 million in operating EBITDA. Operating EBITDA decreased $40 million year-over-year, primarily due to lower revenue related to transaction volume declines, partially offset by decreases in operating and marketing costs. Our Q2 Anywhere Advisors operating EBITDA was negative $10 million, down $21 million versus prior year due to lower volume and slightly higher agent commission costs, also offset in part by lower operating and marketing expenses.

現在讓我更詳細地介紹我們的業務部門的業績。我們的 Anywhere Brands 業務（包括銷售線索和搬遷）產生了 1.64 億美元的運營 EBITDA。運營 EBITDA 同比減少 4000 萬美元，主要是由於交易量下降導致收入減少，但部分被運營和營銷成本的下降所抵消。我們第二季度 Anywhere Advisors 的 EBITDA 為負 1000 萬美元，比上年減少 2100 萬美元，原因是銷量減少和代理佣金成本略高，但運營和營銷費用的降低也部分抵消了這一影響。

Commission splits in Q2 were up 32 basis points year-over-year, which was better than we had expected in the quarter. We have been taking advantage of an improved competitive backdrop and are proactively managing splits. Also, there are even parts of our business, especially in luxury, where our splits were even lower than prior year in the quarter.

第二季度的佣金分配同比上升 32 個基點，好於我們對本季度的預期。我們一直在利用改善的競爭環境並積極管理拆分。此外，我們的部分業務，尤其是奢侈品業務，本季度的利潤分配甚至低於去年同期。

Anywhere Integrated Services was $10 million in operating EBITDA in Q2. Operating EBITDA declined $11 million year-over-year due to lower purchase and refinance volumes, which was partially offset by lower operating expenses due to cost savings initiatives and $3 million of improved GRA JV performance. As Ryan said, we continue to change how we operate, and that is driving efficiency and lower costs.

Anywhere Integrated Services 第二季度的運營 EBITDA 為 1000 萬美元。由於採購和再融資量減少，運營 EBITDA 同比下降 1100 萬美元，但成本節約舉措帶來的運營支出下降以及 GRA 合資企業業績改善 300 萬美元，部分抵消了這一影響。正如瑞安所說，我們不斷改變我們的運營方式，這就是提高效率並降低成本。

Before I talk about the cost savings, let me provide some additional detail on our overall cost structure. In 2022, operating, marketing and G&A expense line items totaled about $2 billion. Of this total, headcount-related expenses were about $1.1 billion, and office-related expenses were about $220 million. As these are the majority of our expenses, this is where most of our savings come from and represent about 70% of our 2023 cost savings program. For example, we have reduced our headcount by 15% since June 2022. And on the real estate footprint, we are focusing our efforts to reimagine and transform our real estate brokerage offices to be more efficient, flexible and integrated with transaction support services in title and mortgage. We expect to reduce our brokerage and title footprint by about 10% this year, with most of the actions already completed. Please refer to Slides 18, 19 and 20 for further details.

在談論成本節約之前，讓我先提供一些有關我們整體成本結構的額外細節。 2022 年，運營、營銷和一般管理費用項目總計約 20 億美元。其中，與員工相關的費用約為 11 億美元，與辦公室相關的費用約為 2.2 億美元。由於這些是我們的大部分支出，因此我們的大部分節省都來自於此，約占我們 2023 年成本節省計劃的 70%。例如，自2022 年6 月以來，我們已將員工人數減少了15%。在房地產業務方面，我們正在集中精力重新構想和改造我們的房地產經紀辦事處，使其更加高效、靈活，並與產權交易支持服務集成。和抵押貸款。我們預計今年我們的經紀業務和產權足跡將減少約 10%，其中大部分行動已經完成。請參閱幻燈片 18、19 和 20 了解更多詳情。

Year-to-date, we have realized approximately $100 million of our $200 million cost savings program. The savings will be realized pretty evenly throughout the year, and we consider approximately 2/3 of our full year savings will be permanent and not expected to return when volumes increase. These savings, however, will be offset in part by inflation and by litigation costs. Between 2022 and 2023, we expect to realize a combined $350 million of cost savings, which is a huge accomplishment. Our focus here reinforces our commitment to reimagine how we work, while delivering a better experience to our agents and customers, and we've nearly achieved our 2026 cost savings target that we laid out in our Investor Day last year.

今年迄今為止，我們已實現 2 億美元的成本節約計劃中的約 1 億美元。全年節省的費用將相當均勻地實現，我們認為全年節省的大約 2/3 將是永久性的，並且預計不會在銷量增加時收回。然而，這些節省的費用將被通貨膨脹和訴訟費用部分抵消。 2022 年至 2023 年間，我們預計將總共節省 3.5 億美元的成本，這是一項巨大的成就。我們在這裡的重點強化了我們對重新構想我們的工作方式的承諾，同時為我們的代理商和客戶提供更好的體驗，我們幾乎實現了我們在去年投資者日制定的 2026 年成本節約目標。

Now on to our updated estimates for 2023. First, we expect Q3 closed volumes to be down about 10% versus prior year. This is the third quarter of sequential improvement in year-over-year transaction volume driven in part by easier comparisons to the prior year. Second, based on the year-to-date split trends, we now expect full year split pressure of about 50 to 75 basis points. We really like our actions in this area, the improving volume trends and the better competitive environment we're experiencing.

現在來看看我們對 2023 年的最新預測。首先，我們預計第三季度成交量將比去年同期下降約 10%。這是交易量同比連續改善的第三季度，部分原因是與上一年的比較更加容易。其次，根據今年迄今的分拆趨勢，我們目前預計全年分拆壓力約為 50 至 75 個基點。我們非常喜歡我們在這一領域的行動、不斷改善的銷量趨勢以及我們正在經歷的更好的競爭環境。

Estimates, that remain the same as our last call. For full year 2023, we continue to expect transaction volumes to decline about 15% to 20% year-over-year and likely towards the better part of that range. We also still expect transaction volumes will improve sequentially throughout the year. We expect our operating free cash flow to be modestly positive as favorable working capital, robust savings programs and our cash management discipline will counterbalance this tough year in housing. This excludes the impact of cash expenses from the debt exchange transactions and any other nonrecurring items. Finally, we are on track to realize $200 million of P&L cost savings in 2023.

估計與我們上次的預測相同。對於 2023 年全年，我們繼續預計交易量將同比下降約 15% 至 20%，並且可能會跌至該範圍的較大部分。我們還預計全年交易量將環比增長。我們預計我們的運營自由現金流將適度為正，因為有利的營運資本、強勁的儲蓄計劃和我們的現金管理紀律將抵消今年住房市場的困難。這不包括債務交換交易和任何其他非經常性項目的現金支出的影響。最後，我們有望在 2023 年實現 2 億美元的損益成本節省。

Let me now turn the call back to Ryan for some closing remarks.

現在讓我把電話轉回給瑞安，讓他發表一些結束語。

Thank you, Charlotte. So as I reflect on the second quarter, I'm proud of how our team navigated this tough housing environment to deliver results. And I'm excited about the strategic progress we made in the quarter to set up our business for greater growth when the market rebounds, permanently streamline our cost base as we operate differently, to reimagine the agent and consumer experience, and to enhance our analytic leadership as we experiment with generative AI and large language models.

謝謝你，夏洛特。因此，當我回顧第二季度時，我為我們的團隊如何在艱難的住房環境中取得成果而感到自豪。我對本季度取得的戰略進展感到興奮，這些進展使我們的業務在市場反彈時實現更大增長，通過不同的運營方式永久精簡我們的成本基礎，重新構想代理商和消費者體驗，並增強我們的分析能力。當我們嘗試生成人工智能和大型語言模型時，我們將發揮領導作用。

Now looking ahead, I remain optimistic about the housing market over the medium term and our ability to lead into the future. Together with our employees, affiliated agents and franchisees, we're seizing this moment to position Anywhere Real Estate to move real estate to what's next. With that, we will take your questions.

現在展望未來，我對中期房地產市場以及我們引領未來的能力保持樂觀。我們與我們的員工、附屬代理商和特許經營商一起，抓住這個時機，定位 Anywhere Real Estate，將房地產推向未來。這樣，我們將回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions). Your first question comes from Matthew Bouley with Barclays.

（操作員說明）。你的第一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的馬修·布利。

You have Elizabeth Langan on from Matt's team today. Just kind of starting off, I was wondering if you could offer a few comments just around the commission split, trends, and you mentioned that luxury splits had kind of moved down. Would you mind talking a little bit about what you're seeing, just the details around agent splits, maybe higher-end splits versus the overall market? And in the longer term, how you're kind of thinking about balancing commission splits with the expansion of agent tools?

今天請來馬特團隊的伊麗莎白·蘭根 (Elizabeth Langan)。首先，我想知道您是否可以就佣金分成、趨勢發表一些評論，您提到奢侈品分成有所下降。您介意談談您所看到的情況嗎？只是有關代理拆分的詳細信息，也許是高端拆分與整個市場的比較？從長遠來看，您如何考慮平衡佣金分配與代理工具的擴展？

Absolutely. So we really benefited in the quarter from a few things, but basically, because the competitive environment has improved, what we're seeing is that -- while we still have prior years and quarters recruiting and retention, it is not -- we're not having to add nearly as much to that. So as the volume continues to improve as we come into the season, it has a lesser impact on the split because the competitive environment is better, and we're just basically rolling off the majority of prior year's recruiting and retention.

絕對地。因此，我們在本季度確實從一些事情中受益，但基本上，因為競爭環境已經改善，我們看到的是- 雖然我們仍然有前幾年和前幾個季度的招聘和保留，但事實並非如此- 我們'我們不必添加那麼多。因此，隨著我們進入賽季，數量繼續增加，它對分裂的影響較小，因為競爭環境更好，而且我們基本上取消了上一年的大部分招募和保留。

On the luxury side, like I mentioned, some of our luxury side is actually down versus prior year. And all the split plans are actually quite different brand by brand. Some of our split plans actually did reset all at the same time in January for some brands and we're -- that's part of where we're seeing the benefit year-over-year actually being down. So we like the trends. We like the competitive environment. And as it relates to the overall agent value proposition, absolutely. So there's lots of other ways to provide value to agents that is not in the commission split. I think Ryan is referring to some of that in his prepared remarks. And that definitely helps balance overall. So a good call out there. That's something we're absolutely focused on for the future.

在奢侈品方面，正如我提到的，我們的一些奢侈品方面實際上比去年有所下降。事實上，所有的分拆計劃都因品牌而異。事實上，我們的一些分拆計劃確實在一月份的同一時間對一些品牌進行了重置，這就是我們看到收益同比實際下降的部分原因。所以我們喜歡趨勢。我們喜歡競爭環境。因為它絕對與整體代理價值主張相關。因此，還有很多其他方式可以為代理商提供不屬於佣金分成的價值。我認為瑞安在他準備好的講話中提到了其中的一些內容。這絕對有助於整體平衡。所以這是一個很好的呼籲。這是我們未來絕對關注的事情。

Okay. And then just to follow up. Do you have a view on where agents kind of see the top concerns for homebuyers in today's market? I don't know if you have like kind of a pulse on what they've been saying and such. But is it mostly an inventory issue? I mean, obviously, inventory is a major issue, but is that where they're seeing kind of the largest pressure on volumes for homebuyer decision-making? Or are rates kind of making that decision for buyers?

好的。然後只是跟進。您是否認為經紀人在當今市場上認為購房者最關心的問題是什麼？我不知道你是否對他們所說的內容有類似的了解。但這主要是庫存問題嗎？我的意思是，顯然，庫存是一個主要問題，但這是否是購房者決策中銷量面臨最大壓力的地方？或者說利率是否會為買家做出決定？

So it's a great question, Elizabeth. Thank you for asking it. Yes, we clearly have a pulse on the agents with the kind of a couple of hundred thousand here in the U.S. that we support and interact with a bunch of them regularly as you would want us to. Look, the biggest thing I hear from agents is just they need more houses to sell, right? And for buyers, it's just tough out there when supply is just so limited. And obviously, a lot of that comes out of the mortgage world. And in a world where 60-plus percent of people have mortgage rates below 4%, it's just such a barrier to supply with mortgage rates now at 6.7% or whatever they are. And so there's a lot of people who want to buy houses even at higher mortgage rates and with the affordability challenges that it creates relative to the houses out there for supply.

所以這是一個很好的問題，伊麗莎白。謝謝你的提問。是的，我們顯然對美國有幾十萬特工有脈搏，我們支持他們並定期與他們互動，正如你所希望的那樣。聽著，我從經紀人那裡聽到的最重要的事情就是他們需要更多的房子來出售，對嗎？對於買家來說，當供應如此有限時，日子就很艱難。顯然，其中很多來自抵押貸款領域。在一個 60% 以上的人的抵押貸款利率低於 4% 的世界裡，現在 6.7% 或其他什麼水平的抵押貸款利率對於供應來說就是一個障礙。因此，即使抵押貸款利率較高，也有很多人想買房，而且相對於現有的房屋供應來說，它帶來了負擔能力的挑戰。

And so that's why in my script, I referred to high-quality lead generation, anything we can do to help our agents actually get a transaction in this tight very low transaction year is critical. But the biggest thing I think buyers are frustrated with is just the lack of choices out there. And it's the thing that's kind of dominating the challenges in the housing market right now is just that lack of supply with high mortgage rates being a big piece of why that supply is so low.

因此，這就是為什麼在我的腳本中，我提到了高質量的潛在客戶開發，我們可以做的任何事情來幫助我們的代理商在這個緊張的非常低的交易年份中真正獲得交易是至關重要的。但我認為買家感到沮喪的最大的事情就是缺乏選擇。目前房地產市場面臨的主要挑戰是供應不足和高抵押貸款利率，這是供應如此低的一個重要原因。

Your next question comes from Tommy McJoynt with KBW.

您的下一個問題來自 KBW 的 Tommy McJoynt。

The first one is just to the extent of the housing market does sort of remain stuck in this $4.5 million existing home sale market and fast forwarding to, I guess, all of your expense savings having been fully actioned. Can you help us think about the earnings power of this model? Perhaps just to put some guideposts around maybe what the EBITDA power is in this type of market backdrop?

第一個是在某種程度上，房地產市場確實仍然停留在這個價值 450 萬美元的現有房屋銷售市場上，並且快進到，我猜，你所有節省的費用都已得到充分利用。您能幫助我們思考一下這種模式的盈利能力嗎？也許只是為了說明在這種市場背景下 EBITDA 的力量是什麼？

Yes. Sure. Good question, Tommy. So look, obviously, the easiest way for us to grow in our industry from an earnings standpoint is when the market is stronger. But if you look at the actions that we're taking today, we just show you that we're committed to driving EBITDA growth no matter what the market is. And our EBITDA, both kind of absolute and relative results on a competitive basis are going to look pretty darn good. And a lot of it starts with the cost stuff that you referenced and Charlotte referenced, right? The more we transform our company to be simpler, more automated, more digital, you think about the $150 million last year, the $200 million this year. and today is not the day to talk about it, but there may be more in the future, right, in that kind of world. So that's a big bucket.

是的。當然。好問題，湯米。因此，顯然，從盈利的角度來看，我們在行業中實現增長的最簡單方法是當市場走強時。但如果您看看我們今天採取的行動，我們只是向您表明，無論市場如何，我們都致力於推動 EBITDA 增長。我們的 EBITDA，無論是在競爭基礎上的絕對結果還是相對結果，看起來都非常好。其中很多都是從你提到的和夏洛特提到的成本開始的，對吧？我們越是把公司轉型得更簡單、更自動化、更數字化，你想想去年的 1.5 億美元，今年的 2 億美元。今天不是談論它的日子，但將來可能會有更多，對吧，在那樣的世界裡。所以這是一個大桶。

But even in this market, there are some of the opportunities we've also been working on that would add more to our revenue and to our bottom line. If you think about the transaction integration opportunities that can kind of bring more mortgage title economics into the ecosystem, even at today's transaction levels that creates EBITDA upside for us. And we like the early green shoots on that, and we're still investing in that in this tough market. And then some of the consumer-specific things that we've talked about over the last kind of year or so, whether it's in the lead area or some of the other consumer insights, again, those can add to our economics, and we're still investing in those things right now.

但即使在這個市場中，我們也一直在努力尋找一些機會，這將增加我們的收入和利潤。如果你考慮一下交易整合機會，它可以將更多的抵押貸款所有權經濟帶入生態系統，即使在今天的交易水平上也可以為我們創造 EBITDA 上行空間。我們喜歡這方面的早期萌芽，並且在這個艱難的市場中我們仍在對此進行投資。然後，我們在過去一年左右討論過的一些特定於消費者的事情，無論是在領先領域還是其他一些消費者洞察，這些都可以增加我們的經濟效益，我們’我現在仍在投資這些東西。

And then even in this market, the thing I talked about trying to grow that high-margin franchise business, growing luxury like gains in those areas will add to our ability to do EBITDA growth even in a low market. And again, we have the octane to invest pretty well even in a down market like we're in the middle of, as you can tell from our remarks and how we're using our free cash flow. But we also, as this quarter shows, generate meaningful EBITDA, generate meaningful free cash flow that enables those things. And so we like -- we don't like a tough housing market, but relative to the rest of our industry, I think we're actually much better positioned to do well in a tough housing market.

然後，即使在這個市場上，我談到的嘗試發展高利潤特許經營業務，在這些領域增加類似奢侈品的收益，也將增強我們即使在低迷的市場中實現 EBITDA 增長的能力。再說一遍，即使在我們所處的低迷市場中，我們也有很好的投資能力，正如您從我們的言論以及我們如何使用自由現金流中可以看出的那樣。但正如本季度所示，我們還產生了有意義的 EBITDA，產生了有意義的自由現金流來實現這些目標。所以我們喜歡——我們不喜歡艱難的房地產市場，但相對於我們行業的其他公司，我認為我們實際上更有能力在艱難的房地產市場中取得好成績。

Down housing markets don't last forever. If you look over the last 30 or 40 years, they tend to last, what, 2 to 3-ish years. And so the savings that we're doing, most of which are permanent are going to benefit us into the future. And so that's kind of how we're focused on that as well.

房地產市場的低迷不會永遠持續下去。如果你回顧過去 30 或 40 年，它們往往會持續 2 到 3 年左右。因此，我們正在做的節省，其中大部分是永久性的，將使我們的未來受益。這也是我們關注的重點。

Got it. And then the second question, I do want to ask about the pending industry litigation because it's an area where we're frankly getting a lot of questions. I understand you can't opine on the actual outcome of what's really uncertain in class action litigation. But can you just help us think about the impacts on a commission-based business model like yours, if we were to see a widespread decoupling of the buyer's agent commissions, which I think is at the heart of what this litigation is about?

知道了。然後是第二個問題，我確實想問一下懸而未決的行業訴訟，因為坦率地說，我們在這個領域收到了很多問題。我知道您無法對集體訴訟中真正不確定的實際結果發表意見。但是，如果我們看到買方代理佣金的廣泛脫鉤（我認為這是本次訴訟的核心），您能否幫助我們考慮一下對像您這樣的基於佣金的商業模式的影響？

Well, this litigation is about -- as I understand, is about the mandatory nature of the participation rule. I think speculating on what could come out of it is kind of speculating on the trials themselves, which I'm not really going to do. But we have a strong belief in our ability to defend this pretty vigorously. We're very focused on it. We've got a trial coming up in October, that we're very focused on. And we dispute the allegations against it and believe we've got substantial offenses, and we're going to vigorously defend them.

嗯，據我了解，這場訴訟是關於參與規則的強制性。我認為猜測可能會產生什麼結果就是猜測試驗本身，我實際上不會這樣做。但我們堅信我們有能力強有力地捍衛這一點。我們非常關注它。我們將在 10 月份進行一次試驗，我們對此非常關注。我們對針對它的指控提出異議，並相信我們有嚴重的罪行，我們將大力辯護。

But litigation stuff, including class actions have a lot of uncertainty. These antitrust cases have a lot of codefendants and joint and several liability. So you should always be looking at our Q, we think we do a pretty good -- darn good job of updating people on the latest developments, and we'll probably just leave it there, Tommy.

但包括集體訴訟在內的訴訟有很多不確定性。這些反壟斷案件有很多共同被告並承擔連帶責任。所以你應該經常關注我們的問題，我們認為我們在向人們通報最新進展方面做得非常好，非常好，我們可能會把它留在那裡，湯米。

Your next question comes from Soham Bhonsle with BTIG.

您的下一個問題來自 BTIG 的 Soham Bhonsle。

Charlotte, the first one on the debt exchange program. Should we think of this as sort of being a wash? And just on a go-forward basis being a wash on the interest expense and then principal sort of coming down over time. And is this more opportunistic here? Or do you continue to see sort of being in the market and doing these deals?

夏洛特是債務交換計劃的第一個。我們是否應該將其視為某種洗滌？只是在未來的基礎上，利息費用會被清洗，然後本金會隨著時間的推移而下降。這是否更具機會主義色彩？或者您是否會繼續看到市場上存在並進行這些交易？

Yes. Like as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, we do see this as opportunistic. I did try to highlight that this is a very nominal incremental interest expense going forward. We do see this as a great way to deleverage. And that's really the reason that we've done this transaction. So that's kind of been a similar philosophy of mine over the past few years trying to deleverage. And so there's -- that's really the primary reason why we've done it.

是的。正如我在準備好的發言中提到的，我們確實認為這是機會主義的。我確實試圖強調，這只是名義上的增量利息支出。我們確實認為這是去槓桿化的好方法。這就是我們完成這筆交易的真正原因。因此，過去幾年我在去槓桿化過程中也秉持著類似的理念。這確實是我們這樣做的主要原因。

Okay. And then, I guess, Ryan, on transaction volumes. So I think you guys are guiding down 10%. And that sort of implies a little bit of improvement from 2Q, right? And some of the things that we're seeing on the mortgage side, those sort of suggest that things slowed down maybe in the back half of June. So I guess what's giving you the confidence to sort of hit that 10%, right? And is that just in line with industry volumes? Like how are you thinking about that -- hitting that guide?

好的。然後，我想，瑞安，關於交易量。所以我認為你們的指導是下降 10%。這意味著第二季度有所改善，對吧？我們在抵押貸款方面看到的一些情況表明，情況可能會在六月下旬放緩。所以我猜是什麼讓您有信心達到 10%，對吧？這與行業數量相符嗎？就像你怎麼想的——點擊那個指南？

Yes. I mean -- so look, we're doing that guide having the benefit of having our July data through effectively, let's call it, last Friday, the -- it was 21st or so. But we've also seen the mortgage stuff move around kind of within the quarter in different ways. So we're not going to let what happen with mortgage in the last 2 weeks of June dominate kind of all the other data that we're getting. But basically, the trends that we're seeing are kind of continuing, like I said, in our portfolio, the opens continue to look better than the closed, and that's been true every -- it was true in April, it's true in May, it was true in June. We're seeing it true in July. The comparisons to the year before, keep getting better. Some of that's the market, some of it's the easier comparison. That was true in April, May, June. The July numbers so far are kind of consistent with the number that we just gave you.

是的。我的意思是——所以看，我們正在做這份指南，其好處是有效地通過了我們的 7 月數據，我們稱之為上週五，大約是 21 日左右。但我們也看到抵押貸款在本季度以不同的方式發生變化。因此，我們不會讓 6 月最後兩週的抵押貸款情況主導我們獲得的所有其他數據。但基本上，我們看到的趨勢正在持續，就像我說的，在我們的投資組合中，開盤價繼續看起來比收盤價更好，而且每年都是這樣——四月份是這樣，五月份也是如此。 ，六月份確實如此。我們在七月份看到了這一點。與去年相比，不斷好轉。其中一些是市場，一些是更容易比較的。四月、五月、六月都是如此。到目前為止，七月份的數字與我們剛剛給您的數字一致。

And so we have so much data. We have it geographically in every state. We have it nationally. We have the opens. We have the new listings coming in. We even have appointment data. We have all kinds of data that kind of gives us a sense of kind of what's coming. And so we kind of landed around that 10% decline versus last year.

所以我們有這麼多的數據。我們在每個州都有它的地理位置。我們全國都有。我們有空位。我們有新的列表進來。我們甚至還有預約數據。我們擁有各種各樣的數據，這些數據讓我們對即將發生的事情有所了解。因此，與去年相比，我們的下降幅度約為 10%。

And then again, the 15% to 20% for the full year, we're seeing it at the better end of that range. We've kind of stuck with that range the whole year. That's pretty consistent with forecasters like Fannie Mae and Goldman Sachs, who are at that 4.2 to 4.3 million units kind of thing. So we haven't seen big swings bluntly. But when we look at kind of all the data we have, including our kind of most of July data, we think that's the expectation you should have from us. And then on that full year basis, we're trending towards the better part of it. And again, some of that is us and some of it is just good but that's kind of the ecosystem that we're pulling that guidance out of.

再說一遍，全年 15% 到 20%，我們看到它處於該範圍的較好一端。我們一整年都堅持這個範圍。這與房利美 (Fannie Mae) 和高盛 (Goldman Sachs) 等預測機構的預測相當一致，他們的預測為 4.2 至 430 萬單位。所以我們並沒有直接看到大幅波動。但是，當我們查看我們擁有的所有數據（包括 7 月份大部分數據）時，我們認為這是您應該對我們抱有的期望。然後在全年的基礎上，我們正朝著更好的方向發展。再說一次，其中一些是我們自己的，有些只是好的，但我們正在從這種生態系統中提取指導。

Got it. And Ryan, if I could just squeeze one more in on the competitive environment. Obviously, the splits sound is a good sign here. But can you maybe just talk broadly about what you're seeing on the agent recruitment side between full-service models like yourselves versus maybe independents or other sort of models out there? Just curious on that.

知道了。瑞安（Ryan），如果我能在競爭激烈的環境中再擠一擠就好了。顯然，分裂的聲音在這裡是一個好兆頭。但是，您能否廣泛地談談您在代理招聘方面所看到的，像您這樣的全方位服務模特與獨立模特或其他類型的模特之間的情況？只是對此感到好奇。

Yes. Look, I mean, I think if you look at the industry data you're seeing that there are fewer -- there are 2 industry data trends right now on the agent front. So one is, there are fewer agents moving now than have been moving anytime in the past 5 or 6 years. And a piece of that is clearly the better competitive environment. The other thing happening on the agent front right now is frankly, agents leaving the industry typically low or nonproducing agents, especially when you get fees and stuff licensing fees and stuff like that do. And we saw this in Q2 and COVID too, by the way, in 2020. And so both of those trends are happening.

是的。聽著，我的意思是，我認為如果你看一下行業數據，你會發現更少——目前在代理商方面有兩個行業數據趨勢。其一是，現在搬家的代理人數量比過去五六年的任何時候都要少。其中一部分顯然是更好的競爭環境。坦率地說，目前在代理商方面發生的另一件事是，代理商離開該行業通常是低水平或無生產力的代理商，特別是當你收取費用和許可費之類的東西時。順便說一下，我們在 2020 年第二季度和新冠疫情中也看到了這一點。所以這兩種趨勢都在發生。

And I think the first one is partly because of the kind of better competitive environment Charlotte referred to, and doesn't mean it's easy out there, it doesn't mean everybody is still not focused on recruiting, we're very focused on it. But it's a little different than it was for sure, like 3 years ago or 4 years ago, and it's even, again, I think, better than it was a year or so ago, and some of that shows up in the results that Charlotte talked about.

我認為第一個部分是因為夏洛特提到的更好的競爭環境，並不意味著這很容易，也不意味著每個人仍然不專注於招聘，我們非常關注它。但這與 3 年前或 4 年前肯定有所不同，而且我認為，它甚至比大約一年前更好，其中一些顯示在夏洛特的結果中討論過。

And then some of the -- there are certain competitors who pull much more from the mass market and there's others who pull much more from the higher end. And because we play full spectrum. We compete pretty aggressively with all of them. But when we look like head-to-head against some of the other big companies in our industry, we like our numbers. We're a net winner often in those comparisons. And we -- even in a tough market, we got some -- we have both some experience and some assets and some financial stuff that a lot of companies don't have. And so like Charlotte said, we're -- a lot of what we're doing, including on the agent side, is trying to set us up for even greater success in a stronger market.

然後一些——某些競爭對手從大眾市場獲得更多，而其他競爭對手則從高端市場獲得更多。因為我們發揮全方位的作用。我們與他們所有人競爭非常激烈。但當我們與行業中的其他一些大公司正面交鋒時，我們喜歡我們的數字。在這些比較中，我們經常是淨贏家。我們——即使在一個艱難的市場中，我們也有一些——我們擁有一些經驗、一些資產和一些許多公司所沒有的財務資料。因此，就像夏洛特所說，我們正在做的很多事情，包括在代理商方面，都試圖讓我們在更強大的市場中取得更大的成功。

Your next question comes from Anthony Paolone with JPMorgan.

您的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Anthony Paolone。

I guess first one is just following up on the competitive landscape. Just on the share side, I guess if I'm looking at the NAR data in the quarter, just using median price is down about 22%, and I guess you guys were down about 23%. Like just is that -- do you feel like you lost share? Are you guys looking at it differently? Can you just comment on the share side?

我想第一個只是跟進競爭格局。就股票而言，我想如果我查看本季度的 NAR 數據，僅使用中值價格就下跌了約 22%，我猜你們下跌了約 23%。就像這樣——你覺得你失去了份額嗎？你們對此有不同的看法嗎？你能評論一下分享方面嗎？

We feel like we're right on. I mean, we were down 23%. NAR was down 22%. I don't even know if there's any rounding in that. But look, I said in the prepared remarks, Tony, California and New York were the 2 big drags, especially from a price side, in our portfolio, kind of down mid-single digits. And I think those numbers are true, by the way, for everybody.

我們感覺我們是對的。我的意思是，我們下降了 23%。 NAR 下跌 22%。我什至不知道其中是否有四捨五入。但是你看，我在準備好的發言中說過，托尼、加利福尼亞州和紐約是我們投資組合中的兩個大拖累，特別是從價格方面來看，有點下降到中個位數。順便說一句，我認為這些數字對每個人來說都是真實的。

But remember, those are our 2 biggest markets. So if you want to map us to NAR, you probably got to reweight us a little bit. And I think we're kind of right around them, maybe a little bit better, I don't know. But when they're down 22% and we're down 23%, and we're so heavy in kind of the two worse geographies, it kind of feels like we're basically kind of holding share. I don't know, maybe if we reweight we're a little better. But that's not a thing that has been keeping me up at night when I watch the numbers here.

但請記住，這些是我們最大的兩個市場。因此，如果您想將我們映射到 NAR，您可能需要稍微重新調整我們的權重。我認為我們就在他們周圍，也許更好一點，我不知道。但當他們下跌 22% 而我們下跌 23% 時，我們在這兩個更糟糕的地區的持股比例如此之大，感覺就像我們基本上持有股票一樣。我不知道，如果我們重新調整體重，也許會好一點。但當我看到這裡的數字時，這並不是讓我徹夜難眠的事情。

Okay. Good. And then second one on the lawsuits and G&A. Can you give us a sense as to whether or not you continue to accrue in the quarter?

好的。好的。然後是關於訴訟和一般行政費用的第二個。您能否讓我們了解您是否會在本季度繼續累積收益？

Yes. We didn't do any accruals this quarter. You got to remember the accruals cover several litigation matters. There's the class actions. We also have a couple other things out there. But we didn't do any accruals of the type you're talking about in the quarter. And having done 3 quarters in a row where accruals were a headwind to our strong operating performance, it's nice to have a quarter where we're not doing that. We don't break those legal accruals out, but we do aggregate those accruals with other items, including our noncash long-term incentive comp, other noncash charges, other extraordinary non or unusual recurring charges. And we show that big group aggregation in Table 8a of the press release. But this was a quarter where we did have a development that required an accrual.

是的。本季度我們沒有進行任何應計項目。您必須記住，應計費用涵蓋了多項訴訟事宜。有集體訴訟。我們還有其他一些東西。但我們在本季度沒有進行任何您所說的應計項目。連續三個季度應計費用對我們強勁的經營業績構成了阻力，很高興有一個季度我們沒有這樣做。我們不會將這些法定應計費用分解出來，但我們確實將這些應計費用與其他項目進行匯總，包括我們的非現金長期激勵補償、其他非現金費用、其他特殊非或異常經常性費用。我們在新聞稿的表 8a 中展示了這一大群體的聚合。但這是我們確實有一個需要應計項目的發展的季度。

But Tony, the litigation is complex, it evolves every quarter and we'll keep providing you the quarterly updates in the discussion of our litigation in our 10-Qs. So you should always check those out. But this was a quarter without the kind of accrual we've been talking about in some previous quarters.

但是托尼，訴訟很複雜，每個季度都會發生變化，我們將在 10-Q 中不斷為您提供訴訟討論中的季度更新。所以你應該經常檢查這些。但這是一個沒有我們在前幾個季度討論過的應計項目的季度。

Okay. So -- but it's -- just to make sure I understood that, but there were other accruals in the quarter. Is that what you said?

好的。所以——但這只是為了確保我理解這一點，但本季度還有其他應計項目。是你說的嗎？

No, nothing. Basically, no. No, there's no.

沒什麼。基本上，沒有。不，沒有。

And if you look at G&A in the quarter, it's down versus the prior year. And we do have cost savings. But to Ryan's point, there's always other moving pieces.

如果你看看本季度的一般管理費用，就會發現它比上一年有所下降。我們確實節省了成本。但就瑞安而言，總有其他令人感動的事情。

Okay. I understand. And then just last one on the exchange offer. I guess if you get a lot of those bonds exchanged, is there a taxable gain? Do you anticipate having to pay tax on that this year? Or do you get some cover for that given just the general weakness in the business this year? Just how does that work?

好的。我明白。然後是交換報價中的最後一項。我想如果你交換大量這些債券，是否有應稅收益？您預計今年需要為此納稅嗎？或者考慮到今年業務的普遍疲軟，你是否能得到一些補償？究竟是如何運作的呢？

Yes. We did announce that we plan to do an offer. We haven't gone there yet. So there's really -- I'm limited by what I can say based on securities law. But if you look at the structure of those types of things, if they were to happen, there can be tax implications. That's something that we're obviously evaluating and getting full ahead of and -- if that was to be the case. But there's really not much I can say about that at this moment in time.

是的。我們確實宣布計劃提出要約。我們還沒有去過那裡。因此，根據證券法，我能說的確實有限。但如果你看看這些類型的事情的結構，如果它們發生，可能會產生稅收影響。這顯然是我們正在評估並提前充分考慮的事情——如果情況確實如此的話。但此時此刻我真的沒什麼可說的。

Your next question comes from Ryan McKeveny with Zelman & Associates.

您的下一個問題來自 Zelman & Associates 的 Ryan McKeveny。

I guess one to start, I guess, in terms of your total transaction sides, I'm curious if you have or can share a rough breakdown between how that splits between buyer side and listing sides. And given your size and scale, maybe my baseline assumption is maybe it's about 50-50, but I'm curious if there's a SKU there.

我想首先就您的總交易方而言，我很好奇您是否有或可以分享買方方和上市方之間如何劃分的粗略細分。考慮到您的規模和規模，我的基准假設可能是 50-50 左右，但我很好奇那裡是否有 SKU。

And then specifically on the listing side, I guess just any thoughts or anything you can add around what you're seeing in terms of new listings coming to market? What do you think it takes to get back to a more normal pace of homeowners actually listing their homes? And whether it's by market or by price point? Just curious if there's any kind of green shoots or encouraging signs you might be seeing to suggest that more listings will be coming to the market.

然後，特別是在上市方面，我想您對上市新上市的情況有什麼想法或可以添加的內容嗎？您認為如何才能恢復房主實際掛牌房屋的正常節奏？是按市場還是按價格？只是好奇您是否會看到任何新的萌芽或令人鼓舞的跡象，表明更多的房源將進入市場。

Yes. So Ryan, look, given our size and scale, 50-50 is totally the right assumption on buy versus sell-side listings. And listings, clearly way down versus a year ago, and it's a supply issue, as we've talked about. We're seeing the biggest pressure on listings, as you would probably expect, in the mass market and the first-time homebuyer. If you look at the July data that I referred to in an earlier question, we're actually seeing luxury listings in July improved more than the rest of the market. So that's kind of the one price point thing that we're seeing some green shoots on that we're interested in, especially with our luxury leadership position.

是的。所以 Ryan，看，考慮到我們的規模和規模，對於買方與賣方上市，50-50 是完全正確的假設。與一年前相比，上市量明顯下降，正如我們所討論的，這是一個供應問題。正如您可能預料到的那樣，我們看到大眾市場和首次購房者面臨著最大的上市壓力。如果你看一下我在之前的問題中提到的 7 月份數據，我們實際上會發現 7 月份的豪華房源數量比市場其他地區的改善更多。因此，這是我們感興趣的一個價格點，特別是在我們的奢侈品領導地位下。

In terms of what it's going to take, I've got a pretty strong view on this. And I think it's mortgage rates in the 5% to 5.5%. I referred earlier to the percentage of people who -- the 60-plus percent of people have mortgages below 4%; 82% or 85% of people have mortgages below 5%. And what I really look at here, Ryan, is the homebuilders. And I spoke to one of the homebuilders or CEOs, we communicated, it was a month ago. they're moving a ton of product and part of that is obviously because there's very little inventory in the resell market, but they're also moving the product because they're buying down mortgage rates into that 5% or 5.5% rate. In fact, this CEO told me that they'll buy a mortgage down to 4.99% for any house being delivered in the next 60 days. and then there are other buy downs take it to 5% to 5.5%.

就需要採取什麼措施而言，我對此有非常強烈的看法。我認為抵押貸款利率在 5% 到 5.5% 之間。我之前提到過 60% 以上的人抵押貸款低於 4%； 82% 或 85% 的人的抵押貸款利率低於 5%。瑞安，我在這裡真正關注的是房屋建築商。我與一位房屋建築商或首席執行官進行了交談，我們進行了溝通，那是一個月前的事。他們正在轉移大量產品，部分原因顯然是因為轉售市場上的庫存很少，但他們也正在轉移產品，因為他們將抵押貸款利率降低到 5% 或 5.5%。事實上，這位首席執行官告訴我，對於未來 60 天內交付的任何房屋，他們都會以低至 4.99% 的利率購買抵押貸款。然後還有其他買入下調，使其達到 5% 至 5.5%。

And so there's some real clear evidence to me there that at those mortgage rates, consumers are absolutely ready to buy, want to buy, it's not an affordability issue. But if those guys could move product without buying down, they would, but they're not. They're buying it down. So it tells me that 7% mortgages are both tough in terms of bringing supply to the market, and 7% mortgages are tough for consumers on affordability and to really unlock both the supply side and even some more on the demand side, mortgage rates in that 5% to 5.5% is kind of what I'm really focused on.

因此，對我來說，有一些真正明確的證據表明，在這些抵押貸款利率下，消費者絕對準備好購買、想要購買，這不是負擔能力問題。但如果這些人可以在不買斷的情況下轉移產品，他們會這麼做，但他們沒有。他們正在買斷它。因此，它告訴我，7% 的抵押貸款在向市場提供供應方面都非常困難，而且7% 的抵押貸款對於消費者的負擔能力來說也很困難，要真正釋放供給側甚至更多的需求側，抵押貸款利率5% 到 5.5% 是我真正關注的。

Now again, we're going to do all right, even in a tough market, as you can see this quarter, with our earnings, with our free cash flow, our ability to invest, but imagine our octane both on the -- with the cost changes and some of the other innovations we're doing in a much, much more normal market, what that could look like, we get real excited about it. But I think that homebuilder actions gives us all a path to what really is moving homes and what consumers are willing to do. And I'm obviously rooting for the homebuilders.

現在，即使在艱難的市場中，我們也會做得很好，正如你在本季度看到的那樣，憑藉我們的收益、我們的自由現金流、我們的投資能力，但想像一下我們的辛烷值——成本變化以及我們在一個非常非常正常的市場中所做的一些其他創新，這會是什麼樣子，我們對此感到非常興奮。但我認為房屋建築商的行動為我們所有人提供了一條途徑，了解什麼是真正的搬家以及消費者願意做什麼。我顯然支持房屋建築商。

Yes, that's really helpful, Ryan. Second question, so you mentioned a few times, California is one of our biggest markets. I guess one of the headlines we've all been seeing more recently is homeowners insurance companies pulling out of the state as well as some other parts of the country. I guess any impact you're seeing on home sale activity in some of those markets? And if it's not tangible at this point, I guess, is it a focal point of agents or buyers and sellers in those markets? And just kind of curious how you're thinking about this topic of homeowners insurance and some of these bigger entities pulling out of different markets.

是的，這真的很有幫助，瑞安。第二個問題，您多次提到，加利福尼亞州是我們最大的市場之一。我想我們最近看到的頭條新聞之一是房主保險公司撤出該州以及該國其他一些地區。我想您認為這些市場的房屋銷售活動受到什麼影響？如果目前還沒有具體體現，我想，它是否是這些市場中代理商或買家和賣家的焦點？只是有點好奇您如何看待房主保險這個話題以及一些退出不同市場的較大實體。

Yes, it's a great question, and there's really kind of a tale of 2 cities. Florida is not -- even though Florida gets headlines on this issue, it's not something I'm hearing about from agents or franchisees. And it really just doesn't come up a lot. That doesn't mean we're not watching. We do have a lot to watch. It does come up a little more in California. And remember, California kind of has both the higher price point thing and the luxury thing kind of in greater share than probably anywhere else in the U.S. other than maybe New York City. And we do see a few more like properties there that are just hard to sell because they're not insurable basically for the reason that you talk about.

是的，這是一個很好的問題，而且確實有一個關於兩個城市的故事。佛羅里達州不是——儘管佛羅里達州在這個問題上成為頭條新聞，但我從代理商或特許經營商那裡沒有聽到過這樣的事情。而且它確實不會出現很多。這並不意味著我們不關注。我們確實有很多值得關注的地方。在加利福尼亞州，這種情況確實出現得更多一些。請記住，與紐約市以外的美國其他任何地方相比，加利福尼亞州的物價更高，奢侈品的比例也更高。我們確實在那裡看到了更多類似的房產，它們很難出售，因為基本上由於您所說的原因，它們無法投保。

Now these tend to be pretty anecdotal. I've talked to our Sotheby's International Realty leader about one in the last quarter, for example. But it is something we're watching. I mean I think at the end of the day, the idea that any state in the U.S. isn't going to have home insurance available, it would -- is unlikely from just kind of a government to kind of market forces thing. But it's -- I put it in a -- it's one of yet another kind of headwind in the California world, along with the taxes and other things. Whereas Florida, with its tax advantages, weather advantages, et cetera, it just doesn't really show up as a headwind. So it's on the radar, but there's probably some bigger issues on the radar when you look at like the California versus Florida comparison. But again, more anecdotal, but enough anecdotal that I do notice.

現在這些往往都是非常軼事。例如，我在上個季度與我們的蘇富比國際地產負責人討論過其中一個問題。但這是我們正在關注的事情。我的意思是，我認為歸根結底，美國任何一個州都不會提供家庭保險的想法，從政府到市場力量的角度來說，這是不太可能的。但這是——我把它放在——這是加州世界的另一種逆風之一，還有稅收和其他因素。儘管佛羅里達州擁有稅收優勢、天氣優勢等，但它並沒有真正成為一種逆風。所以它在雷達上，但當你看加州與佛羅里達州的比較時，雷達上可能存在一些更大的問題。但同樣，更多的軼事，但我確實注意到了足夠的軼事。

Your next question comes from John Campbell with Stephens Inc.

您的下一個問題來自 Stephens Inc. 的 John Campbell。

On the brokerage business, obviously, I mean, it's still a pretty tough operating environment. I think revenue is down $400 million or so year-over-year. But you only saw a $21 million drop in EBITDA for the brokerage segment. I know that's obviously a very high variable cost business. You had a little bit less split growth pressure. But clearly, there's a lot of self-help there. Charlotte, it sounds like you spoke to this pretty extensively on the cost-saves, and I think that is very helpful as far as the disclosures of kind of the breakout of savings by segment.

顯然，在經紀業務方面，我的意思是，它仍然是一個相當艱難的運營環境。我認為收入同比下降了 4 億美元左右。但經紀業務的 EBITDA 只下降了 2100 萬美元。我知道這顯然是一項可變成本非常高的業務。你的分裂生長壓力稍微小一點。但顯然，這裡面有很多自助的東西。夏洛特，聽起來您在成本節約方面談到了相當廣泛的內容，我認為這對於按部門披露節約的突破類型非常有幫助。

But my question here is, if you can maybe talk to the degree of the remaining cost-saves throughout 2026 and kind of how much of that is going to be directed or geared towards the brokerage segment? And then just maybe more near term, do you feel like you've got the business cost-wise in a good spot where if you saw maybe even modest brokerage growth, you can get back to margin expansion there?

但我的問題是，您能否談談 2026 年剩餘成本節省的程度，以及其中有多少將用於經紀業務？然後，也許更近期，您是否覺得您的業務成本已處於一個良好的位置，如果您看到經紀業務的適度增長，您可以在那裡恢復利潤率擴張？

So I'll take the last part first. Yes. And it kind of goes to the answer I gave earlier. Yes, I do believe that because we are at a pretty historically low housing market, these are sizable cost savings, of which most are permanent, and they will definitely benefit us when we get to more normalized housing markets north of $5 million, absolutely.

所以我先講最後一部分。是的。這有點符合我之前給出的答案。是的，我確實相信，因為我們正處於歷史上相當低的房地產市場，所以這些都是相當大的成本節省，其中大部分是永久性的，當我們進入500 萬美元以上的更加正常化的房地產市場時，它們肯定會讓我們受益。

As far -- so thanks for the feedback on the slides. We've been taking feedback on this. We tried to give additional detail here to highlight that the majority of our costs really are people-related and then sort of occupancy and other things. And because of that, yes, a lot of the cost savings this year are going to come out of brokerage. Now we're not giving updated 2026 numbers this quarter. You'll likely hear more about that from me later this year. But just basis where the costs are, we're constantly mining across the business, and the majority of the costs sitting in on brokerage, title, et cetera, clearly, there's going to have to be sort of more to come.

到目前為止，感謝您對幻燈片的反饋。我們一直在收集對此的反饋。我們試圖在這裡提供更多細節，以強調我們的大部分成本確實與人員有關，然後是入住率和其他因素。正因為如此，今年的大部分成本節省將來自經紀業務。現在，我們本季度不會提供更新的 2026 年數據。今年晚些時候你可能會從我這裡聽到更多關於這方面的信息。但就成本而言，我們不斷地在整個業務中挖掘，大部分成本來自經紀費、產權等，顯然，未來還會有更多成本。

So we like the magnitude of our savings. We do believe we will be a big beneficiary of this to our margins when the housing market gets more normalized. That doesn't mean that we're done, and we're constantly looking at ways to make our business more efficient. And also, at the same time, a lot of the stuff that we're working on now delivers even better experience for our agents and our customers. So more to follow on that, but happy that folks are able to see sort of the benefits of the actions because of the magnitude of what we've done. You can see that on the different operating and G&A and marketing line items in the P&L.

所以我們喜歡節省的金額。我們確實相信，當房地產市場變得更加正常化時，我們將成為利潤率的一大受益者。這並不意味著我們已經完成了，我們一直在尋找提高業務效率的方法。與此同時，我們現在正在做的很多事情為我們的代理商和客戶提供了更好的體驗。因此，還有更多後續內容，但很高興人們能夠看到這些行動的好處，因為我們所做的事情規模很大。您可以在損益表中的不同運營、一般管理費用和營銷行項目上看到這一點。

Okay. That's very helpful. And then back on the legal expenses, Ryan, you pointed this out, but you can definitely see the add-backs in the -- I guess, one of the late tables in the press release, I think the senior secured leverage ratio table. You can see it there. You guys are obviously not adding that back to operating EBITDA. If you look over the last 12 months, I mean, there's been a pretty substantial step-up relative to maybe 1.5 years, 2 years ago. So I think clearly, you're spending a lot there.

好的。這非常有幫助。然後回到法律費用，瑞安，你指出了這一點，但你絕對可以在——我想，新聞稿中的最後一張表格中看到附加費用，我認為是高級擔保槓桿率表。你可以在那裡看到它。你們顯然不會將其添加回經營 EBITDA 中。如果你回顧過去 12 個月，我的意思是，與 1.5 年、2 年前相比，已經有了相當大的進步。所以我清楚地認為，你在那里花了很多錢。

But if you look at it from last quarter, it looks like it might have stepped down on a trailing 12-month basis. So I don't know how much detail you can provide there. But was that lower legal spend? I know you talked to the accruals, but just kind of on an ongoing basis, is that a step-down in spend?

但如果你從上個季度的情況來看，它看起來可能會在過去 12 個月的基礎上有所下降。所以我不知道你能在那裡提供多少細節。但合法支出是否較低？我知道您談到了應計費用，但只是在持續的基礎上，這是支出的減少嗎？

It's not so much that it was a step-down in spend other than there were no incremental reserves that we did. Now there's always stuff year-over-year. And I'm sure we had something in the prior year that we're lapping but nothing material. So it's really the absence of incremental new...

與其說這是支出的減少，不如說我們沒有增加儲備。現在年復一年總是有東西。我確信我們在前一年有一些我們正在研究的東西，但沒有什麼實質性的東西。所以這實際上是缺乏增量新的......

Remember, yes, that line item has noncash long-term incentive comp. It's got other noncash charges got other extraordinary non or unusual recurring charges. And so yes, the number in that table went down a little bit from last quarter. Let's just -- a few things rolling off from the year before, but it's not a change in the core thing that we were talking about. And as Charlotte said, litigation costs, unfortunately, is one of the cost headwinds we do actually have still given the upcoming trials.

請記住，是的，該訂單項具有非現金長期激勵補償。它還有其他非現金費用和其他特殊的非或不尋常的經常性費用。是的，該表中的數字比上季度略有下降。我們只是——從前一年開始，發生了一些事情，但這並不是我們談論的核心事情的變化。正如夏洛特所說，不幸的是，訴訟費用是我們在即將進行的審判中實際上仍然面臨的成本阻力之一。

Okay. And then just one more on the legal side. I mean, Ryan, I know you guys can't talk much there. So definitely don't want you to step out of bounds. But I mean, I saw the update from the Bright MLS, which is the nation's second-largest MLS. But I think they're named as a co-conspirator in the Moehrl case, but it sounds like that they are kind of basically kind of diverged from NAR rule, the participation rule. So I was curious, again, I don't want you to try to step out of pounds here, but is there an official message that's coming from you guys corporate-wise as far as a stance or a message on the participation rule or maybe even more specifically what Bright MLS is proposing to do.

好的。然後還有一個法律方面的問題。我的意思是，瑞安，我知道你們在那裡不能說太多話。所以絕對不希望你越界。但我的意思是，我看到了 Bright MLS 的更新，這是美國第二大 MLS。但我認為他們在 Moehrl 案件中被列為同謀，但聽起來他們基本上偏離了 NAR 規則（參與規則）。所以我再次很好奇，我不希望你們在這裡嘗試擺脫困境，但是你們公司是否有官方信息傳達關於參與規則的立場或信息，或者也許更具體地說，Bright MLS 打算做什麼。

We're not going to talk about what Bright is doing. But look, John, we're on public record that we don't think NAR's mandatory participation rule is necessary, period, like we're literally on public record about that. So -- and we've been on public record for a while about that. So what everybody should know is that we have that strong view, and we haven't been shy about sharing it. And so we've still got these trials, and we're going to defend them vigorously in everything. But we have a view on that specific thing, and it's a public view.

我們不會談論 Bright 正在做什麼。但是約翰，你看，我們的公開記錄表明，我們認為 NAR 的強制參與規則沒有必要，就這樣，就像我們確實公開記錄過這一點一樣。所以——我們對此的公開記錄已經有一段時間了。所以每個人都應該知道的是，我們有如此強烈的觀點，而且我們並不羞於分享它。因此，我們仍然面臨著這些考驗，我們將在一切方面積極捍衛它們。但我們對具體事情有自己的看法，而且這是公眾的看法。

So I don't mind commenting on it here. And we don't think the rule is necessary for markets to operate well. We think agents for both buyers and sellers create real value for the consumer, and there's geographies in the U.S. that don't have that rule and they operate really well for consumers, for agents, for homeowners. And so we just don't think NAR's mandatory rule is necessary. And again, we're on public record.

所以我不介意在這裡發表評論。我們認為該規則對於市場的良好運行並不是必要的。我們認為，買家和賣家的代理商都為消費者創造了真正的價值，而美國的某些地區沒有這一規則，但他們為消費者、代理商和房主運作得很好。所以我們認為 NAR 的強制性規則是沒有必要的。再說一次，我們的記錄已公開。

There are no further questions at this time. With that, we thank you for joining us today. This concludes the conference call, and you may now disconnect.

目前沒有其他問題。在此，我們感謝您今天加入我們。電話會議到此結束，您現在可以斷開連接了。