Hillman Solutions Corp (HLMN) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Third Quarter 2024 Results Presentation for Hillman Solutions Corporation. My name is Jonathan, and I will be your conference call operator today.

早安，歡迎來到 Hillman Solutions Corporation 2024 年第三季業績發表會。我叫喬納森，今天我將擔任您的電話會議接線生。

Before we begin, I would like to remind our listeners that today's presentation is being recorded and simultaneously webcast. The company's earnings release, presentation and 10-Q were issued this morning. These documents and a replay of today's presentation can be accessed on Hillman's Investor Relations website at ir.hillmangroup.com.

在開始之前，我想提醒聽眾，今天的演示正在錄製並同時進行網路直播。該公司的收益報告、簡報和 10-Q 報告於今天上午發布。這些文件和今天簡報的重播可在 Hillman 投資者關係網站 ir.hillmangroup.com 上存取。

I would now like to turn the call over to Michael Koehler with Hillman.

我現在想將電話轉給邁克爾·科勒和希爾曼。

Thank you, Jonathan. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. I am Michael Koehler, Vice President of Investor Relations, and Treasury. Joining me on today's call are Doug Cahill, our Chairman, President, and Chief Executive Officer; John Michael Adinolfi, our Chief Operating Officer; and Rocky Kraft, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，喬納森。大家早安，感謝您加入我們。我是麥可‧科勒 (Michael Koehler)，投資者關係與財務部副總裁。參加今天電話會議的還有我們的董事長、總裁兼執行長 Doug Cahill；約翰·邁克爾·阿迪諾爾菲，我們的營運長；以及我們的財務長 Rocky Kraft。

As a reminder, we announced in August that effective January 1, 2025, Doug will step into the Executive Chairman role, and John Michael, or JMA, as we call them, will step into the CEO role. Before we get into today's call, I would like to remind our audience that certain statements made today may be considered forward-looking and are subject to the Safe Harbor provisions of applicable securities laws.

提醒一下，我們在 8 月宣布，自 2025 年 1 月 1 日起，Doug 將擔任執行主席一職，而 John Michael（我們稱之為 JMA）將擔任執行長一職。在我們開始今天的電話會議之前，我想提醒我們的聽眾，今天所做的某些陳述可能被視為前瞻性的，並受到適用證券法的安全港條款的約束。

These forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and are subject to certain risks, uncertainties, assumptions, and other factors, many of which are beyond the company's control and may cause actual results to differ materially from those projected in such statements.

這些前瞻性陳述並非對未來績效的保證，並受到某些風險、不確定性、假設和其他因素的影響，其中許多因素超出了公司的控制範圍，並可能導致實際結果與此類陳述中預測的結果存在重大差異。

Some of the factors that could influence our results are contained in our periodic and annual reports filed with the SEC. For more information regarding these risks and uncertainties, please see slide 2 in our earnings call slide presentation, which is available on our website.

一些可能影響我們結果的因素包含在我們向 SEC 提交的定期報告和年度報告中。有關這些風險和不確定性的更多信息，請參閱我們的財報電話會議幻燈片演示文稿中的幻燈片 2（可在我們的網站上獲取）。

In addition to today's call, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Information regarding our use of and reconciliations of these measures to our GAAP results are available in our earnings call slide presentation.

除了今天的電話會議外，我們還將提及某些非公認會計準則財務指標。有關我們使用這些措施以及將這些措施與我們的 GAAP 結果進行協調的信息，請參閱我們的收益電話會議幻燈片演示。

With that, Doug will begin today's call with some recent highlights then he will provide some market commentary, touch on our updated guidance, and hit on our third-quarter results. JMA will then hit on the value of our moat, our acquisition of Intact, and our operations. Rocky will then give a more detailed walk through our financials and updated guidance before turning the call back over to Doug for some closing comments. We will then open up the call for your questions.

道格將以最近的一些亮點開始今天的電話會議，然後他將提供一些市場評論，談到我們更新的指導，並談到我們的第三季業績。然後，JMA 將探討我們的護城河、我們對 Intact 的收購以及我們的營運的價值。然後，洛基將更詳細地介紹我們的財務狀況和更新的指導意見，然後將電話轉回給道格以徵求一些結束語。然後我們將打開電話詢問您的問題。

It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to our Chairman, President, and CEO, Doug Cahill. Doug?

現在我很高興將電話轉給我們的董事長、總裁兼執行長 Doug Cahill。道格？

Thanks, Michael. Good morning, everyone. Before we get too far into the call today, I wanted to take a moment and recognize the Hillman team for actually accomplishing something that we've never done before in our history. On October 1, we won the 2024 Divisional Vendor Partner of the Year in Hardlines at Lowe's. And eight days later, we won the 2024 Partner of the Year in Hardware at Home Depot.

謝謝，麥可。大家早安。在我們今天深入討論之前，我想花一點時間來表彰 Hillman 團隊，他們實際上完成了我們歷史上從未做過的事情。10 月 1 日，我們榮獲 Lowe's Hardlines 2024 年度分區供應商合作夥伴獎。八天后，我們榮獲家得寶 2024 年度硬體合作夥伴獎。

Our Lowe's team led by Justin Fox and our Home Depot team led by Brad Helbing, do an outstanding job taking care of our two biggest customers. You guys and your teams have been doing and continue to do a fantastic job working with these two world-class retailers.

由 Justin Fox 領導的 Lowe's 團隊和由 Brad Helbing 領導的 Home Depot 團隊在照顧我們兩個最大的客戶方面做得非常出色。你們和你們的團隊一直並將繼續與這兩家世界級零售商合作，做得非常出色。

For 60 years, the mindset at Hillman has always been nothing happens until you sell something, and I'm happy to report it's alive and well today. Being recognized by our two biggest customers in the same year is not possible without this mindset. There are a lot of folks to thank like our customer service and back-office support teams as well as our logistics and operations teams moving product across the global network.

60 年來，Hillman 的理念始終是“除非你賣掉東西，否則什麼都不會發生”，我很高興地向大家報告，這種理念至今仍然存在。如果沒有這種心態，就不可能在同一年獲得我們兩個最大客戶的認可。有許多人需要感謝，例如我們的客戶服務和後台支援團隊，以及我們在全球網路中行動產品的物流和營運團隊。

But I think I can speak for Justin, Brad, and the entire team and say the most valuable players at Hillman are the dedicated warriors in the field taking care of the shelves at Home Depot, Lowe's, and all of our customers each and every day. We're humbled by the recognition, and we strive to ensure all of our customers are well taken care of by our team. Again, my hats off to the Hillman team, you guys are amazing.

但我想我可以代表賈斯汀、布拉德和整個團隊說，希爾曼最有價值的球員是每天在現場照顧家得寶、勞氏和我們所有客戶貨架的敬業戰士。我們對這項認可深感榮幸，並努力確保所有客戶都得到我們團隊的良好照顧。再次向 Hillman 團隊致敬，你們太棒了。

As we look at 2025 and beyond, this company is in a great position. We believe we're approaching an actual inflection point where the macro will start to benefit both Hillman and our retail partners. Our retailers aren't predicting when existing home sales start to turn positive, but they're convinced that when it happens, it's going to be a historic run, not for a year or two, but closer to three to five years.

展望 2025 年及以後，這家公司處於有利地位。我們相信，我們正在接近一個實際的轉折點，宏觀經濟將開始使 Hillman 和我們的零售合作夥伴受益。我們的零售商並沒有預測現房銷售何時開始轉正，但他們相信，當這種情況發生時，這將是歷史性的增長，不是一兩年，而是接近三到五年。

Driving this confidence are a few factors. Let's break it down. Number one, lower rates are likely on their way, and it will make it cheaper for existing homeowners to tap their home equity to fund home improvement projects. Homeowners in the US are sitting on a record $35 trillion of home equity, a number that has increased 81% since the end of 2019.

推動這種信心的因素有幾個。讓我們來分解一下。第一，較低的利率可能即將到來，這將使現有房主更便宜地利用其房屋淨值來為房屋裝修項目提供資金。美國房主擁有創紀錄的 35 兆美元房屋淨值，這一數字自 2019 年底以來增長了 81%。

Additionally, lower rates should drive an increase in existing home sales. Down from over 6 million homes sold in the US in 2021, 2024 is projected to be at a 30-year low of 3.8 million homes sold. We believe lower rates will start to relieve this pent-up demand and existing home sales will improve next year.

此外，較低的利率應該會推動現有房屋銷售的增加。美國 2021 年售出的房屋數量將超過 600 萬套，預計 2024 年將降至 380 萬套，創下 30 年來的新低。我們相信較低的利率將開始緩解這種被壓抑的需求，明年現房銷售將會改善。

Number two, the age of existing homes in the US. 48% of homes are at least 45 years old, which includes over 24 million homes that are expected to reach their prime remodelling age in the next three years. We believe this will drive consistent demand for remodelling and renovation projects for years to come.

第二，美國現有房屋的年齡。 48% 的房屋年齡至少為 45 年，其中超過 2,400 萬套房屋預計將在未來三年內達到最佳裝修年齡。我們相信，這將推動未來幾年對改建和翻新項目的持續需求。

Number three, the lack of housing supply in the US with roughly 4.5 million homes shortage in the US and no near-term solution with roughly 1.5 million homes being built a year, home values are expected to remain strong and homeowners will continue to invest in their homes.

第三，美國住房供應不足，美國大約有 450 萬套住房短缺，沒有短期解決方案，每年建造約 150 萬套住房，預計房價將保持強勁，房主將繼續投資他們的家。

Meanwhile, we know the macro has not been a tailwind for the last few years. But what I love about this business model of ours is that even with unit volume being a headwind for our industry, our trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA is up 18% versus the year-ago period.

同時，我們知道過去幾年宏觀經濟並沒有起到推動作用。但我喜歡我們這種商業模式的一點是，即使單位銷售對我們行業構成阻力，我們過去 12 個月的調整後 EBITDA 仍比去年同期增長了 18%。

Because of the great position we're in with our customers, we believe we will grow both top line and bottom line in 2025. But for now, let's go back to 2024. During the quarter, we acquired Intex, a leading provider of cleaning regs, cloth, and textiles. Most every home improvement job again ends with cleaning. So this is another great product category that fits perfectly in our portfolio and one that we're excited to be in.

由於我們與客戶的關係非常好，我們相信到 2025 年我們的收入和利潤都會成長。但現在，讓我們回到 2024 年。本季度，我們收購了 Intex，一家領先的清潔用品、布料和紡織品供應商。大多數家居裝修工作都以清潔結束。因此，這是另一個很棒的產品類別，非常適合我們的產品組合，我們很高興能加入其中。

Because of the additional contributions from Intex and our October results, we're increasing our 2024 full top line -- full year top line and adjusted EBITDA guidance. Our new net sales guidance range is $1.455 billion to $1.485 billion and has a midpoint of $1.47 billion. The new midpoint is an increase of adjusted EBITDA (technical difficulty) for the year, marking a 2% and 4% increase over 2023.

由於 Intex 的額外貢獻和我們 10 月份的業績，我們提高了 2024 年的全部營收——全年營收和調整後的 EBITDA 指引。我們新的淨銷售額指引範圍為 14.55 億美元至 14.85 億美元，中點為 14.7 億美元。新的中點是當年調整後 EBITDA（技術難度）的增加，分別較 2023 年增加 2% 和 4%。

Our new free cash flow guide of $100 million to $150 million are (technical difficulty) is $5 million lower than our previous guide with no change to the bottom end. Rocky will provide more details on our 2024 guidance and our CapEx investments shortly. Turning to the quarter. Net sales in the third quarter of '24 totalled $393.3 million, which were down 1.4% compared to the prior-year quarter.

我們新的 1 億至 1.5 億美元自由現金流指南（技術難度）比我們之前的指南低 500 萬美元，底端沒有變化。Rocky 很快就會提供有關我們 2024 年指導和資本支出投資的更多詳細資訊。轉向季度。2024 年第三季淨銷售額總計 3.933 億美元，比去年同期下降 1.4%。

Driving our top line were sales from Koch and Intex acquisitions, which added about four points, which were offset by two main factors. Number one is the overall market volumes, which were down about 4% for the quarter. Number two was a one-point headwind from price, which was in line with our expectations, coupled with a small headwind from FX.

推動我們營收成長的是 Koch 和 Intex 收購帶來的銷售額，這增加了約四個百分點，但被兩個主要因素抵消了。第一是整體市場成交量，本季下降了約 4%。第二是價格的一個點阻力，這符合我們的預期，再加上外匯的小阻力。

For the quarter, our adjusted EBITDA increased 9% to $72.6 million compared to $66.8 million during the third quarter of 2023. Our adjusted EBITDA margins improved to a healthy 18.4%. Adjusted gross margins for the quarter totalled 48.2%, marking a 400 basis point improvement over 44.2% during the year-ago quarter and declined sequentially from 48.7% during the second quarter of 2024.

本季度，我們調整後的 EBITDA 成長 9%，達到 7,260 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季為 6,680 萬美元。我們調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率提高至健康的 18.4%。本季調整後毛利率總計 48.2%，比去年同期的 44.2% 提高 400 個基點，較 2024 年第二季的 48.7% 有所下降。

We believe we've structurally improved our gross margin profile, and we expect it to be above 47% for the foreseeable future. We have managed to maintain these healthy margins by improving efficiencies, selling a better mix of products similar to what we've seen over the past few quarters.

我們相信，我們已經從結構上改善了毛利率狀況，預計在可預見的未來，毛利率將超過 47%。我們透過提高效率、銷售更好的產品組合（類似過去幾季的情況），成功地維持了健康的利潤率。

For our top-line results, Hardware, and Protective Solutions, or HPS, which is our biggest segment, net sales increased 0.1% over the comparable period. While our adjusted EBITDA increased 19.8%, our results were driven by contributions from Koch and Intex partially offset by softer market volumes and price. Net sales in Robotics and Digital or RDS, were down 5.3% versus the year-ago quarter.

對於我們的頂線業績，硬體和防護解決方案（HPS）是我們最大的細分市場，淨銷售額較同期成長了 0.1%。雖然我們調整後的 EBITDA 成長了 19.8%，但我們的業績是由 Koch 和 Intex 的貢獻推動的，部分被市場銷售和價格疲軟所抵消。機器人和數位技術（RDS）的淨銷售額與去年同期相比下降了 5.3%。

This compares sequentially to 8% decline between Q2 of 2024 and Q2 of 2023. The trend has improved because of the green shoots in MinuteKEY 3.5 and our new kiosk service contracts. Adjusted gross margins and adjusted EBITDA margins remain healthy at 72.3% and 32.2%, respectively, both improved sequentially. As of today, we have 900 MinuteKEY 3.5 machines in the field, and we believe that we will have over 1,200 in stores by year-end.

相比之下，2024 年第二季和 2023 年第二季之間下降了 8%。由於 MinuteKEY 3.5 的萌芽和我們新的自助服務終端服務合同，這一趨勢有所改善。調整後毛利率和調整後 EBITDA 利潤率分別維持在 72.3% 和 32.2% 的健康水平，均連續改善。截至目前，我們在現場擁有 900 台 MinuteKEY 3.5 機器，我們相信到年底我們的商店數量將超過 1,200 台。

The deployment plan has accelerated throughout '24, and we expect to continue to ramp in 2025. We know RDS is a great business, and we're laser-focused on getting RDS back to growth beginning in 2025. Now turning to Canada. Net sales in our Canadian business were down 6.5% compared to the prior-year quarter. The quarter and the rest of the year are helped by contributions from new business rollouts as we continue to gain market share north of the border. These wins were offset by a very sluggish economy in Canada.

部署計畫在 2024 年持續加速，我們預計到 2025 年將繼續加速。我們知道 RDS 是一項偉大的業務，我們致力於讓 RDS 從 2025 年開始恢復成長。現在轉向加拿大。與去年同期相比，我們加拿大業務的淨銷售額下降了 6.5%。隨著我們繼續獲得邊境以北的市場份額，本季和今年剩餘時間都得益於新業務推出的貢獻。這些勝利被加拿大經濟非常低迷所抵消。

For the year, we expect to maintain 10% adjusted EBITDA margins in Canada. And like our business in the US, we have this business in a strong position for when the economy turns and a great team in Canada.

今年，我們預計加拿大調整後 EBITDA 利潤率將維持 10%。就像我們在美國的業務一樣，我們的業務在經濟狀況好轉時處於有利地位，並且在加拿大擁有一支優秀的團隊。

Before I turn it over to JMA, let me sum up 2024. As we told you in November last year, even if volumes were down in 2024, our EBITDA would be up, and this year has played out as we anticipated. We also told you that we expect to turn the tuck-in acquisition machine on, and we've added Koch and Intex this year.

在將其交給 JMA 之前，讓我總結一下 2024 年。正如我們去年 11 月告訴您的那樣，即使 2024 年銷量下降，我們的 EBITDA 也會上升，而且今年的表現正如我們預期的那樣。我們也告訴過你，我們希望打開折疊式收購機器，今年我們已經增加了 Koch 和 Intex。

The contributions from these businesses have moved our full-year top-line expectations to be roughly flat versus last year, and our full-year EBITDA will grow about 14% versus 2023. We've improved our gross margin rate to 48% and our EBITDA rate to 17%, and we believe we've structurally improved the profitability of our business. We continue to strengthen relationships with our customers and reinforce our competitive moat illustrated by our Vendor of the Year wins at Depot and Lowe's.

這些業務的貢獻使我們的全年營收預期與去年基本持平，我們的全年 EBITDA 將比 2023 年成長約 14%。我們已將毛利率提高至 48%，EBITDA 率提高至 17%，我們相信我們已經從結構上提高了業務的盈利能力。我們繼續加強與客戶的關係，並加強我們的競爭護城河，這在 Depot 和 Lowe's 榮獲年度供應商獎中得到了體現。

We feel great about where we are with our customers right now, and it is fun to be back on offense. We're ready to grow alongside our customers when the macro starts to shift, and we'll be ready for what our retailers believe will be a historic run over the next several years. With that, I'll turn it over to JMA. As we announced in August, JMA will take the reins from me in January of 2025 as only the sixth CEO in the 60-year history of Hillman.

我們對現在與客戶的關係感覺很好，重新進攻很有趣。當宏觀經濟開始改變時，我們已準備好與客戶一起成長，我們也將做好準備，迎接我們的零售商認為未來幾年將出現的歷史性成長。有了這個，我會把它交給 JMA。正如我們在 8 月宣布的那樣，JMA 將於 2025 年 1 月接替我，成為 Hillman 60 年曆史上的第六位執行長。

I love this company because of the people we get to work with and the customers we get to take care of, and I'm very proud of this transition. JMA, Rocky, and I have worked together every day for the past five years. It's been an honour and an absolute blast. JMA is doing a great job as Executive Chairman, I support Rocky in every way I can (technical difficulty)

我喜歡這家公司，因為我們共事的人和我們照顧的客戶，我對這次轉變感到非常自豪。過去五年來，JMA、Rocky 和我每天都在一起工作。這是一種榮譽，絕對是一種爆炸。JMA 作為執行主席做得很好，我盡我所能支持 Rocky（技術難度）

Will hit on how we win with our moat, the M&A landscape, and operations before turning the call over to Rocky. Let me give you a quick refresher on the three differentiators of our moat. Number one, pick, pack, and ship directly to our customers; number two, 1,100 field sales and service warriors; and number three, our 60 years of experience.

在將電話轉交給 Rocky 之前，我們將重點介紹我們如何透過護城河、併購格局和營運來獲勝。讓我快速回顧一下我們護城河的三個特色。第一，挑選、包裝並直接運送給我們的客戶；第二，1100名現場銷售和服務戰士；第三，我們 60 年的經驗。

Next, I will share a few real-life examples of how each part of our moat creates value for our customers. First, by shipping 75% of our products direct to store, we take care of our customer when they need it most. For example, during the recent hurricanes that impacted the Southeast, we were able to support our customers before and after the storms with minimal impact to service levels.

接下來，我將分享一些現實生活中的例子，說明我們護城河的各個部分如何為顧客創造價值。首先，透過將 75% 的產品直接運送到商店，我們可以在客戶最需要的時候為他們提供服務。例如，在最近影響東南部的颶風期間，我們能夠在風暴前後為客戶提供支持，同時將對服務水準的影響降至最低。

Second, our 1,100 sales and service warriors not only take care of our normal customer needs but also enable us to flawlessly execute in-store resets across the country. For example, one of our top five customers is investing alongside of us for a multiyear nationwide reset of the fastener aisle.

其次，我們的 1,100 名銷售和服務人員不僅可以滿足我們正常的客戶需求，還使我們能夠在全國範圍內完美地執行店內重置。例如，我們的五大客戶之一正在與我們一起投資，對全國範圍內的緊固件通道進行多年重置。

This is an entire reset of the 40-plus foot run of fasteners, which includes thousands of Hillman SKUs and complex merchandising. We're ripping everything out going all-new, which takes well over 100 labour hours to complete and is one of the most important aisles in the store. And so far, the results are encouraging.

這是對 40 多英尺緊固件的徹底重置，其中包括數千個 Hillman SKU 和複雜的商品陳列。我們正在把所有東西都拆掉換成全新的，這需要 100 多個工時才能完成，而且是商店裡最重要的過道之一。到目前為止，結果令人鼓舞。

Third, with 60 years of experience, we understand the products, categories, and markets. For example, we recently launched a new range of high-performance patented PowerPro structural screws. These new products are being rolled out in the traditional hardware channel and will contribute to growth in 2025. Now that you understand the three pillars and how they add value for our customers, let me now give you some examples of what the moat does for Hillman.

第三，憑藉60年的經驗，我們了解產品、品類和市場。例如，我們最近推出了一系列新的高性能專利 PowerPro 結構螺絲。這些新產品正在傳統硬體通路推出，將為 2025 年的成長做出貢獻。現在您已經了解了三大支柱以及它們如何為我們的客戶增加價值，現在讓我舉一些例子來說明護城河對 Hillman 的作用。

Vendor of the Year at Lowe's in the Home Depot, adjusted gross margin of 48%, adjusted EBITDA margins of 17% double-digit EBITDA growth for the year even in a challenging macro environment, generated meaningful cash flow, investing for long-term growth with our customers, and we are executing low-risk accretive acquisitions where our customers want us to grow.

家得寶(Lowe's) 年度供應商，調整後毛利率為48%，調整後EBITDA 利潤率為17%，即使在充滿挑戰的宏觀環境下，本年度EBITDA 仍實現兩位數增長，產生了可觀的現金流，投資於長期成長與我們的客戶合作，我們正在客戶希望我們成長的地方進行低風險的增值收購。

Look at what happened with Koch. We secured a meaningful piece of new business shortly after the acquisition that will increase that business by 20% over time. Our customers trust us and have confidence that Hillman can handle the complexity of a national rollout of new products and resets. This moat is critical to growing both organically and through M&A.

看看科赫發生了什麼事。收購後不久，我們就獲得了一項有意義的新業務，隨著時間的推移，業務將增加 20%。我們的客戶信任我們，並相信 Hillman 能夠處理在全國範圍內推出新產品和重置的複雜性。這條護城河對於有機成長和透過併購成長都至關重要。

When we offer new categories, it allows our teams to bring more value to our customers and do so efficiently. As Doug mentioned, in August, we closed on the acquisition of Intex, a leading supplier of cleaning rags, cloth, and textiles.

當我們提供新類別時，我們的團隊可以有效率地為客戶帶來更多價值。正如 Doug 所提到的，8 月份，我們完成了對 Intex 的收購，Intex 是清潔抹布、布料和紡織品的領先供應商。

We love Intex because it expands our product offering to new aisles and new customers. And importantly, we can leverage our moat to grow this business in the future as we take advantage of the cross-selling opportunities with both new and existing customers.

我們喜歡 Intex，因為它將我們的產品範圍擴展到新的通路和新的客戶。重要的是，當我們利用與新客戶和現有客戶的交叉銷售機會時，我們可以利用我們的護城河在未來發展這項業務。

For nearly 20 years, Intex has developed patented and innovative cleaning rags, cloth, and textiles for use in home improvement, painting, cleaning, and maintenance projects as well as janitorial, auto, and marine care. Intex has great products, an excellent team, and great customers, many of which we share.

近 20 年來，Intex 開發了專利和創新的清潔抹布、布和紡織品，用於家居裝修、油漆、清潔和維護項目以及清潔、汽車和船舶護理。Intex 擁有出色的產品、優秀的團隊和出色的客戶，其中許多都是我們所共有的。

When you combine that with the unique strengths Hillman brings to our customers every day like in-store service, direct ship capabilities, and 25-plus years of retail relationships at every level, you get accretive acquisitions that should gain market share for years to come. Intex marks our second acquisition of the year with Coke and Ropen Chain being our first.

當您將這一點與Hillman 每天為客戶提供的獨特優勢（如店內服務、直接發貨能力以及各個級別25 年以上的零售關係）相結合時，您將獲得增值收購，從而在未來幾年內獲得市場份額。Intex 是我們今年的第二次收購，可口可樂和 Ropen Chain 是我們的第一次收購。

Our M&A pipeline is healthy as we continue to see companies like Koch and Intex that would be great additions to the Hillman family. Coke has been successfully integrated into our operations, and we are working to fully integrate Intex. I'm proud of how Hillman has welcomed Koch and Intex to the Hillman family. With the team on board and aligned, we are now ready and focused on growth opportunities. We would love to do at least two similar acquisitions every year.

我們的併購管道很健康，因為我們繼續看到像 Koch 和 Intex 這樣的公司將成為 Hillman 家族的重要成員。可口可樂已成功整合到我們的營運中，我們正在努力全面整合 Intex。我為 Hillman 歡迎 Koch 和 Intex 加入 Hillman 大家庭感到自豪。隨著團隊的加入和協調，我們現在已做好準備並專注於成長機會。我們希望每年至少進行兩次類似的收購。

Now let me touch on operations. Our global operations team continues to do a fantastic job and add value throughout the supply chain. We ship products on time and in full to our customers with industry-leading fill rates. Our North American distribution network continues to run efficiently. We have never seen our team operating as well and believe there's still room for improvement.

現在讓我談談操作。我們的全球營運團隊繼續出色地完成工作，並在整個供應鏈中增加價值。我們以業界領先的填充率按時、足量地將產品運送給客戶。我們的北美經銷網路持續高效運作。我們從未見過我們的團隊運作得這麼好，並相信仍有改進的空間。

We continue to have great relationships with our suppliers around the globe. About 1/3 of our products are currently sourced from North America, 1/3 are sourced from Taiwan and the rest of the world, and 1/3 are sourced from China, which is down approximately 50% from less than five years ago.

我們繼續與全球供應商保持良好的關係。目前我們約1/3的產品來自北美，1/3來自台灣和世界其他地區，1/3來自中國，比不到五年前下降了約50%。

Further, about a dozen of our major long-term suppliers are in the process of expanding operations outside of China. We have healthy relationships with our reliable long-term suppliers, and we believe, as do our customers do, this strategy gives us flexibility and options when it comes to tariffs and geopolitical tensions.

此外，我們大約有十幾家主要長期供應商正在將業務擴展到中國以外的地區。我們與可靠的長期供應商有著良好的關係，我們相信，就像我們的客戶一樣，這項策略在關稅和地緣政治緊張局勢方面為我們提供了靈活性和選擇。

Let me now give you a quick update on ocean freight. The spot market for ocean containers has been volatile. but this does not have a material impact on our business because we continue to ship approximately 90% of our containers under our 12-month contracts, which were put in place on May 1, 2024. That said, we will begin to negotiate ocean container contracts in the first quarter of next year ahead of the May 1, 2025, renewal date.

現在讓我向您簡要介紹一下海運的最新情況。海運貨櫃現貨市場一直波動較大。但這不會對我們的業務產生重大影響，因為我們繼續根據 2024 年 5 月 1 日生效的 12 個月合約運輸約 90% 的貨櫃。也就是說，我們將於明年第一季在 2025 年 5 月 1 日續約日期之前開始談判海運貨櫃合約。

Current industry projections are for higher rates. And if true, we would plan to offset and/or price for this increase. Our team is controlling the controllables, efficiently running our operations and taking care of our customers. We are and we will be ready for when the market improves.

目前的產業預測是更高的利率。如果屬實，我們將計劃抵消和/或定價這一增長。我們的團隊正在控制可控因素，有效地經營我們的業務並照顧我們的客戶。當市場好轉時，我們已經並且將會做好準備。

With that, let me turn it over to Robert Kraft to talk financials. Robert Kraft?

接下來，讓我把它交給羅伯特·卡夫來談談財務問題。羅伯特·克拉夫特？

Thanks, John. Let's dive right in. Our net sales for the third quarter of 2024 totalled $393.3 million, a decrease of 1.4% versus the prior-year quarter. Third quarter adjusted gross margin increased by 400 basis points to 48.2% versus the prior year quarter of 44.2%.

謝謝，約翰。讓我們開始吧。2024 年第三季我們的淨銷售額總計 3.933 億美元，比去年同期下降 1.4%。第三季調整後毛利率比去年同期的 44.2% 成長 400 個基點，達到 48.2%。

Sequentially, adjusted gross margins were down slightly from 48.7%, but were in line with our expectations and what we said on last quarter's call. We expect our adjusted gross margins to come down during the fourth quarter as a result of Intex's lower-margin products but will remain above 47% this year and next as we believe we have structurally improved our gross margin profile.

隨後，調整後毛利率略低於 48.7%，但符合我們的預期以及我們在上季度電話會議中所說的內容。我們預計，由於Intex 的利潤率較低的產品，我們的調整後毛利率將在第四季度下降，但今年和明年將保持在47% 以上，因為我們相信我們已經在結構上改善了毛利率狀況。

Adjusted SG&A as a percentage of sales increased to 29.9% during the quarter from 27.5% from the year-ago quarter, which was also in line with our expectations. Driving the increase was our standard employee bonus expense, which was the result of a strong bottom line during the year-to-date period when compared to 2023.

本季調整後的 SG&A 佔銷售額的百分比從去年同期的 27.5% 上升至 29.9%，也符合我們的預期。推動這一成長的是我們的標準員工獎金支出，這是由於與 2023 年相比，今年迄今的利潤強勁。

Adjusted EBITDA in the third quarter was $72.6 million, which grew 9% versus the year-ago quarter. Our adjusted EBITDA to net sales ratio during the quarter was 18.4%, which compares favourably to 16.7% a year ago. Contributing to our healthy adjusted EBITDA margin was our positive mix of price cost and efficient operations.

第三季調整後 EBITDA 為 7,260 萬美元，比去年同期成長 9%。本季調整後的 EBITDA 與淨銷售額比率為 18.4%，優於去年同期的 16.7%。我們的價格成本和高效營運的積極組合為我們健康的調整後 EBITDA 利潤做出了貢獻。

Now let me turn to our cash flows. For the 39 weeks ended September 28, 2024, operating activities generated $140.2 million of cash as compared to $171.5 million in the year-ago period. Remember, during 2023, we had outsized working capital benefits as we were able to reduce our net inventories by over $100 million throughout the year as we returned to normal inventory levels.

現在讓我談談我們的現金流。截至 2024 年 9 月 28 日的 39 週，經營活動產生了 1.402 億美元的現金，而去年同期為 1.715 億美元。請記住，2023 年期間，我們獲得了巨大的營運資本收益，因為我們在恢復到正常庫存水準的同時，全年淨庫存減少了超過 1 億美元。

Free cash flow for the 2024 year-to-date period totalled $76 million and totalled $39.6 million for the quarter. Capital expenditures totalled $64.2 million for the first nine months of 2024. This compared to $52.1 million in the prior year period.

2024 年年初至今的自由現金流總額為 7,600 萬美元，本季總額為 3,960 萬美元。2024 年前 9 個月的資本支出總計 6,420 萬美元。相比之下，去年同期為 5,210 萬美元。

For 2024, we will invest between $80 million and $85 million of CapEx and anticipate 2025 capital spend to be slightly above our 2024 number as we invest in RDS and other growth initiatives like racks for resets in our hardware business. We continue to strategically invest in our high-margin RDS business, but let's be clear, this is not a build it and they will come strategy with MinuteKEY 3.5.

2024 年，我們將投資8,000 萬至8,500 萬美元的資本支出，並預計2025 年的資本支出將略高於2024 年的數字，因為我們投資於RDS 和其他成長計劃，例如硬體業務中用於重置的機架。我們繼續對高利潤的 RDS 業務進行策略性投資，但我們要明確一點，這不是建構它，他們將透過 MinuteKEY 3.5 制定策略。

Our service teams are retrofitting existing 3.0 machines in the stores, and we will only build new machines where we see a return on our invested capital or new store growth opportunities. As Doug mentioned, our 900-plus MinuteKEY 3.5 machines are performing well and where there is a return on our investment, we will ramp up our capital spend to deliver more machines during 2025 with our strategic RDS customers.

我們的服務團隊正在改造商店中現有的 3.0 機器，只有在我們看到投資回報或新商店成長機會的情況下，我們才會建造新機器。正如 Doug 所提到的，我們的 900 多台 MinuteKEY 3.5 機器表現良好，如果我們的投資有回報，我們將增加資本支出，以便在 2025 年為我們的策略 RDS 客戶提供更多機器。

Now to the balance sheet. We ended the third quarter of 2024 with $698.7 million of total net debt outstanding. We were able to reduce our debt during the quarter while funding the Intex acquisition from our free cash flow. We have not had a net debt figure below $700 million since 2013, and that was when our total annual sales were just $700 million and our leverage ratio was nearly 5 times net debt to adjusted EBITDA.

現在來看資產負債表。截至 2024 年第三季末，我們的未償淨債務總額為 6.987 億美元。我們能夠在本季減少債務，同時利用我們的自由現金流為收購 Intex 提供資金。自 2013 年以來，我們的淨債務數字從未低於 7 億美元，當時我們的年銷售額僅為 7 億美元，而我們的槓桿率幾乎是淨債務與調整後 EBITDA 的 5 倍。

At the end of the third quarter of 2024, our net debt to trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA ratio was 2.8 times compared to 3.3 times at the end of 2023 and 3.7 times just a year ago. Looking forward, we maintain our expectation that we will end 2024 around 2.7 times net leverage.

截至 2024 年第三季末，我們的淨負債與過去 12 個月調整後 EBITDA 的比率為 2.8 倍，而 2023 年底為 3.3 倍，一年前為 3.7 倍。展望未來，我們維持 2024 年底淨槓桿率約 2.7 倍的預期。

Our long-term adjusted EBITDA to net debt leverage ratio target is to be at or below 2.5 times. This will give us the flexibility to grow via M&A and allow us to be strategic and opportunistic when it comes to using our balance sheet to add stockholder value.

我們的長期調整後 EBITDA 與淨債務槓桿目標是等於或低於 2.5 倍。這將使我們能夠靈活地透過併購實現成長，並使我們能夠在利用資產負債表增加股東價值時保持策略性和機會主義。

As Doug mentioned earlier, we have a few changes to our 2024 guidance. We are increasing our net sales to be between $1.455 billion to $1.485 billion with a midpoint of $1.47 billion. Driving the increase are sales contributions from Intex, partially offset by the market. Our new midpoint makes the following full-year assumptions: a 1% headwind from price, a 2% lift from new business wins, a 4% lift from Koch and Intex, and market volumes being down about 5%.

正如 Doug 之前提到的，我們對 2024 年指導進行了一些更改。我們將淨銷售額增加到 14.55 億美元至 14.85 億美元之間，中間值為 14.7 億美元。推動這一成長的是 Intex 的銷售貢獻，但部分被市場抵消。我們的新中點做出以下全年假設：價格上漲 1%，新業務成長 2%，Koch 和 Intex 上漲 4%，市場交易量下降約 5%。

Altogether, our new net sales midpoint guide is down less than 0.5% from 2023. Similarly, we are increasing our 2024 adjusted EBITDA guidance. Based on our year-to-date and October results, our expectations for our 2024 full-year adjusted EBITDA is now approximately $250 million, which is a 14% increase from 2023.

整體而言，我們新的淨銷售額中位數指引較 2023 年下降了不到 0.5%。同樣，我們正在提高 2024 年調整後 EBITDA 指導值。根據我們今年迄今和 10 月份的業績，我們對 2024 年全年調整後 EBITDA 的預期約為 2.5 億美元，比 2023 年增長 14%。

Lastly, we are adjusting down the top end of our 2024 free cash flow guide as a result of our anticipated CapEx spend, which is between $80 million and $85 million for the year. The new range for our 2024 free cash flow is $100 million to $115 million and has a midpoint of $107.5 million versus $110 million previously. More information on the assumptions that have driven our guidance are available in our earnings call presentation.

最後，由於我們預計今年的資本支出將在 8,000 萬美元至 8,500 萬美元之間，我們正在下調 2024 年自由現金流指南的上限。我們 2024 年自由現金流的新範圍為 1 億美元至 1.15 億美元，中位數為 1.075 億美元，而之前為 1.1 億美元。有關推動我們指導的假設的更多信息，請參閱我們的財報電話會議演示文稿。

A few weeks ago, one of our customers, True Value filed for Chapter 11 at the corporate level. The hardware co-op made the filing while entering into an agreement to be sold to another hardware co-op Do-It-Best. We have a great relationship with Do-It-Best, and they have been a Hillman customer for over 30 years. Because of its co-op nature, True Value serves as a wholesaler for independently owned hardware stores throughout the US.

幾週前，我們的一位客戶 True Value 在公司層級申請了第 11 章。該硬體合作社在簽署協議時提交了該文件，將其出售給另一家硬體合作社 Do-It-Best。我們與 Do-It-Best 有著良好的關係，30 多年來他們一直是 Hillman 的客戶。由於其合作性質，True Value 是美國各地獨立五金店的批發商。

They are not hardware store operators. Hillman will continue taking care of its independent hardware store customers that fly the True Value banner, shipping products directly to stores while having its field and service folks continue to write orders and manage the shelves.

他們不是五金行經營者。Hillman 將繼續照顧其以「真正價值」旗幟的獨立五金店客戶，將產品直接運送到商店，同時讓其現場和服務人員繼續編寫訂單並管理貨架。

We believe the long-term health of these independently owned hardware stores remains strong and True Value's Chapter 11 and potential sale to Do-It-best should not have a material impact on our long-term business.

我們相信，這些獨立擁有的五金店的長期健康狀況仍然強勁，True Value 的第 11 章以及潛在的出售給 Do-It-best 不會對我們的長期業務產生重大影響。

That said, in the shorter term across all our business segments, we have about $8.8 million of receivables at risk from True Value net of discounts and allowances. Based on what we've learned so far since the filing, we are not assuming we will recover a material amount of these receivables. Accordingly, our third quarter results will reflect a $7.8 million charge for the balance of receivables we do not expect to collect.

也就是說，從短期來看，在我們所有業務部門中，扣除折扣和津貼後，我們約有 880 萬美元的應收帳款面臨 True Value 的風險。根據我們自提交文件以來所了解到的情況，我們並不認為我們將收回大量的應收帳款。因此，我們第三季的業績將反映我們預計不會收回的 780 萬美元的應收帳款餘額費用。

Due to the one-time nature of this event, this has been backed out of our adjusted non-GAAP financials. Hillman does business with 12,000 independently owned hardware stores throughout the US and Canada, which generate about $250 million or nearly 20% of our revenue. ACE is by far the market leader in this space, making up about 2/3 of the market, along with 13% of our revenues.

由於這一事件的一次性性質，這一點已從我們調整後的非公認會計準則財務數據中剔除。Hillman 與美國和加拿大各地的 12,000 家獨立五金店有業務往來，這些商店創造了約 2.5 億美元的收入，占我們收入的近 20%。ACE 是迄今為止該領域的市場領導者，約佔市場的 2/3，占我們收入的 13%。

ACE continues to grow revenues, open new stores, and be financially sound. Your local hardware store as expected, continues to perform during this cycle as they focus in cater to the repair and maintenance categories and differentiate themselves with their customer service.

ACE 繼續增加收入、開設新店並保持財務穩健。正如預期的那樣，您當地的五金店在此週期中繼續表現良好，因為他們專注於滿足維修和保養類別的需求，並透過客戶服務脫穎而出。

Last November, we said that even if the top line is down in 2024, our adjusted EBITDA will increase, and that is exactly what we have seen so far this year, up 17.1% during the first nine months of the year. Our focus remains controlling the controllables, and we believe we have done a great job doing that. Historically, our business has seen organic growth of 6% per year and high single to low double-digit organic adjusted EBITDA growth before M&A.

去年 11 月，我們表示，即使 2024 年營收下降，我們調整後的 EBITDA 也會增加，這正是我們今年迄今所看到的，今年前 9 個月增長了 17.1%。我們的重點仍然是控制可控因素，我們相信我們在這方面做得很好。從歷史上看，我們的業務每年有機增長 6%，在併購之前實現了高個位數到低兩位數的調整後 EBITDA 有機增長。

Assuming we can get some help from the macro, we think returning to our historic growth algorithm is achievable for 2025. Longer term, now that we are active on the M&A front, top-line growth of high single to low teens is realistic and should yield adjusted EBITDA growth in the low to mid-teens, assuming a healthy macro environment.

假設我們可以從宏觀經濟中獲得一些幫助，我們認為到 2025 年回歸歷史成長演算法是可以實現的。從長遠來看，既然我們在併購方面很活躍，那麼在宏觀環境健康的情況下，收入從高位到低位的增長是現實的，並且調整後的 EBITDA 增長應該在低位到中位數的水平。

With that, let me turn it back to Doug.

說到這裡，讓我把話題轉回道格身上。

Thanks, Rocky. Before we get to the Q&A session, I want to express our condolences to the families who have lost loved ones and have seen their lives just turned upside down in the wake of Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton, just awful. No surprise, our Hillman team has stepped up during this time of need by working long hours, expediting deliveries, and servicing our customers in order to ensure those affected have the products they need to start their rebuilding process.

謝謝，洛基。在我們進入問答環節之前，我想向那些失去親人的家庭表示哀悼，他們的生活在颶風海倫和颶風米爾頓之後發生了翻天覆地的變化，太糟糕了。毫不奇怪，我們的 Hillman 團隊在這段需要的時期加緊努力，加班加點、加快交貨並為客戶提供服務，以確保受影響的人們獲得開始重建過程所需的產品。

Additionally, Hillman as well as all of our retailers have donated products and cleaning supplies to assist with the cleanup efforts. Helping those in need is deeply ingrained in the Hillman spirit. We're proud of the way our employees have showed up for their teams and our customers. Without these Hillman Warriors, we would not be where we are today, and I want to express my gratitude for their loyalty, their teamwork, and for always taking great care of our customers.

此外，希爾曼以及我們所有的零售商都捐贈了產品和清潔用品來協助清潔工作。幫助有需要的人是希爾曼精神中根深蒂固的一部分。我們為我們的員工為團隊和客戶服務的方式感到自豪。如果沒有這些希爾曼勇士，我們就不會取得今天的成績，我想對他們的忠誠、團隊合作以及始終對我們客戶的無微不至的照顧表示感謝。

As we look to the future, we firmly believe taking a disciplined approach to strengthening our moat while seeking accretive growth opportunities will drive long-term shareholder value for years to come. And what we can see on the horizon, we're very excited about the future.

展望未來，我們堅信，採取嚴格的方法來加強我們的護城河，同時尋求增值成長機會，將在未來幾年推動長期股東價值。我們對即將發生的事情感到非常興奮。

With that, let me turn it back to Jonathan, the operator for the Q&A portion. Jonathan, I'm not sure if you have a face for radio, but you definitely have a voice. So open it up for questions.

接下來，讓我把問題轉回給問答部分的操作員喬納森。喬納森，我不確定你是否有適合廣播的面孔，但你肯定有聲音。所以打開它來提問。

(Operator Instructions) Matthew Bouley, Barclays.

（操作員說明）Matthew Bouley，巴克萊銀行。

(technical difficulty) on for Matt today. First off, I was wondering on foot traffic and demand trends. Wondering if you can just parse out how this trended in October relative to September. And if you guys have any early thoughts on R&R growth expectations for 2025?

（技術難度）今天由馬特來解決。首先，我想知道人流和需求趨勢。想知道您是否可以分析一下 10 月相對於 9 月的趨勢。你們對 2025 年 R&R 成長預期有什麼初步想法嗎？

I mean, yes, right now, we're seeing kind of same thing, right? The volume is soft and margin continues strong. Mix has been good. I think everybody is rooting for this thing to return. But when you think about our business, there's going to be a lot of retailers focused on holidays and then we'll really get started in '25. But nothing's really changed.

我的意思是，是的，現在我們看到了同樣的事情，對吧？成交量疲軟，利潤率持續強勁。混合效果很好。我想每個人都在支持這件事的回歸。但當你考慮我們的業務時，將會有許多零售商專注於假期，然後我們將在 25 年真正開始。但一切都沒有真正改變。

We continue to see our share growth slightly with some wins. But again, the market has stayed about the same. As we look at '25, it's hard to say. The macro, nobody knows. I think interest rates declining will definitely help.

我們的份額繼續小幅增長，並取得了一些勝利。但市場再次保持大致相同。當我們回顧 25 年時，很難說。宏觀，沒人知道。我認為利率下降肯定會有所幫助。

Our retailers are bullish. But as I said, they really are not predicting when, but they know that as that starts to go, there's pent-up demand, existing home sales, and a lot of equity in homes that can be used for expansions and then people definitely want to move, and that's good for our business.

我們的零售商很樂觀。但正如我所說，他們確實沒有預測何時，但他們知道，隨著這種情況開始發生，存在被壓抑的需求、現房銷售以及大量可用於擴張的房屋淨值，然後人們肯定想要搬家，這對我們的生意有好處。

And then I guess my second question, I know you guys in your prepared remarks mentioned that 1/3 is sourced from Taiwan. I think it was 1/3 from China, but correct me if I'm wrong there.

然後我想我的第二個問題，我知道你們在準備好的演講中提到1/3來自台灣。我認為 1/3 來自中國，但如果我錯了，請糾正我。

If you can just go into more detail, if we were to see an increase in tariffs, how you guys would be equipped to mitigate the impact that this could have on your cost structure? Any details would be helpful.

如果您能詳細說明一下，如果我們看到關稅增加，您將如何做好準備來減輕這可能對您的成本結構產生的影響？任何細節都會有幫助。

Yes. So first of all, I'll turn it to JMA, but 1/3 North America, 1/3 Taiwan, and then rest of really the Asia, like if you think Vietnam, Indonesia, you think of all the different places. So it's 1/3 North America, 1/3 Taiwan and all other, and then 1/3 China. But JMA, why don't you touch on that?

是的。首先，我將把它轉向 JMA，但是 1/3 北美，1/3 台灣，然後是亞洲的其餘地區，就像如果你想到越南、印度尼西亞，你會想到所有不同的地方。所以它是 1/3 北美，1/3 台灣和所有其他地區，然後是 1/3 中國。但是 JMA，為什麼不談談這個呢？

Yes. So to build on that point there, I mean, the 1/3 China, I mean, when you think about tariffs and where you're going after with your question, I mean, we look at it just like we handled tariffs last time they came through. We'll price dollar for dollar. We work with our retailers to pass that cost on, and we'll be ready in the event that is what happens.

是的。因此，在此基礎上，我的意思是，1/3 中國，我的意思是，當你考慮關稅以及你的問題的目的時，我的意思是，我們會像上次處理關稅一樣看待它他們挺過來了。我們將按美元定價。我們與零售商合作，轉嫁成本，一旦發生這種情況，我們將做好準備。

Dave Manthey, Baird.

戴夫·曼西，貝爾德。

First off, Intex, could you talk about who that's being carried by in terms of your partners currently? And is there any limitation where you can sell it? And you mentioned the gross margins are lower there. Is that structural? Or is there room for improvement?

首先，Intex，您能談談您目前的合作夥伴是誰嗎？出售它的地方有什麼限制嗎？你提到那裡的毛利率較低。這是結構性的嗎？或是還有改進的空間嗎？

Dave, as for the Intex businesses, they sell to really a lot of the same customers we do, not nearly as deep in the traditional hardware channel where we're strong, but you think about Depot, Lowe's, Walmart, all the major customers that are out there that we serve each and every day, they sell into and some others, like they are in the paint and auto channels where we don't serve today.

戴夫，至於 Intex 業務，他們的銷售對象確實有很多與我們相同的客戶，在我們強大的傳統硬體管道中沒有那麼深入，但你想想 Depot、Lowe's、沃爾瑪，所有主要客戶我們每天都會提供服務，他們會銷往其他一些管道，例如我們今天不提供服務的油漆和汽車管道。

So we're really excited about the growth opportunities and expansion. There are no limitations in where we take what products we have. They've got some good innovative products with IP around them. So we're really excited about the future and where we're going.

因此，我們對成長機會和擴張感到非常興奮。我們所擁有的產品的使用地點沒有任何限制。他們擁有一些優秀的創新產品，並擁有智慧財產權。因此，我們對未來和我們的發展方向感到非常興奮。

Yes, I guess -- David, it's Rocky. On your second question, I think the answer is yes. They're structurally lower at Intex. We will improve those over time as you think about areas like freight from overseas and things like that, where we just have a lot more volume. So we'll improve their margins, but they will be structurally lower than fleet.

是的，我想──大衛，是洛基。關於你的第二個問題，我認為答案是肯定的。Intex 的結構較低。隨著時間的推移，我們會改進這些，因為你會想到海外貨運等領域，我們在這些領域的銷售量要大得多。因此，我們將提高他們的利潤率，但從結構上看，他們的利潤率將低於機隊。

And then on RDS as we move into 2025, if I heard you right, it sounded like MinuteKey 3.5 might kind of tail off, and Resharp wasn't mentioned at all. What might move the needle that would lead to growth in RDS next year?

然後，當我們進入 2025 年時，在 RDS 上，如果我沒聽錯的話，聽起來 MinuteKey 3.5 可能會逐漸消失，並且根本沒有提到 Resharp。什麼可能推動明年 RDS 的成長？

Yes, so 3.5 is not tailing off, it's just really starting, Dave. That's basically taking the existing MinuteKey 3.0 and adding RFID, auto: both transponder and smart, as well as endless aisle any key you want. So we've got 900 out there, we've got great demand coming from our customers who want it because for them, it's just all upside.

是的，所以 3.5 並沒有結束，它只是真正開始，戴夫。這基本上是採用現有的 MinuteKey 3.0 並添加 RFID、自動：應答器和智能，以及無限通道任何您想要的鑰匙。所以我們有 900 個，我們的客戶有很大的需求，因為對他們來說，這都是有利的。

We'll have 1,200 at the end of the year, and we will both have conversions of existing 3.0 machines in 2025 as well as new placement in stores that don't have them today by our major retailers who now want machines in stores. And I think you'll see over time some pricing opportunities there as well. So that's why we feel like we've turned that corner and that you'll see us begin growing in '25 and certainly into '26.

到今年年底，我們將擁有1,200 台，並且我們將在2025 年對現有3.0 機器進行改造，並在目前沒有這些機器的商店中由現在想要在商店中使用機器的主要零售商進行新的安置。我認為隨著時間的推移，你也會看到一些定價機會。這就是為什麼我們覺得我們已經扭轉了局面，你會看到我們在 25 年開始成長，當然也會在 26 年開始成長。

Lee Jagoda, CJS Securities.

Lee Jagoda，CJS 證券。

So just starting with Intex, Rocky, can you break out the revenue that was added to the PPS segment in Q3? And then if you have any expectations for Q4? And then given that you've only owned it a little while, I assume the answer is probably not yet, but are there any early signs that existing customers are gearing up to award you guys new business because you own Intex now, similar to the way that it evolved with Koch when you bought that?

那麼，從 Intex 開始，Rocky，您能透露一下第三季 PPS 部門新增的收入嗎？那麼您對第四季有什麼期望嗎？然後考慮到你只擁有它一段時間，我認為答案可能還沒有，但是是否有任何早期跡象表明現有客戶正準備向你們授予新業務，因為你現在擁有 Intex，類似於當你購買它時，它是如何與科赫一起進化的？

Yes, Lee. So I'm not going to get into the details around the specifics in the quarter for Intex. What I will tell you is we've said it's about $55 million of annualized revenue. And so we owned it for a month in the third quarter, and we'll own it for four months in the fourth and then -- over three months in the fourth, obviously. And then as we think about next year, we would expect that to be about the size of the business.

是的，李。因此，我不會詳細介紹 Intex 本季的具體情況。我要告訴你的是，我們說過年化收入約 5,500 萬美元。因此，我們在第三季度擁有它一個月，我們將在第四季度擁有它四個月，然後——顯然，第四季度我們將擁有它三個多月。然後，當我們考慮明年時，我們預計這將與業務規模有關。

Obviously, we would expect to grow it a bit. Finally, I would say, as we've said, it's kind of a high single to low double-digit kind of EBITDA business. So if anyone is doing the modelling, that's the way to think about that business.

顯然，我們希望它能有所成長。最後，我想說，正如我們所說，這是一種高個位數到低兩位數的 EBITDA 業務。因此，如果有人在做建模，這就是思考該業務的方式。

And JMA, you want to talk about Intex.

JMA，你想談談 Intex。

Absolutely. Yes, Lee. So we're excited about the growth opportunities with Intex. We are seeing some nice opportunities pop up with our existing customer base and even beyond with some of the new customers out there as we look to leverage the Hillman moat, and really integrate that business. So we are excited about growing that business next year, low double digits, and we feel good about the future of (technical difficulty).

絕對地。是的，李。因此，我們對 Intex 的成長機會感到興奮。當我們希望利用 Hillman 護城河並真正整合該業務時，我們看到現有客戶群甚至一些新客戶中出現了一些很好的機會。因此，我們對明年業務的成長感到興奮，低兩位數，我們對未來感到樂觀（技術難度）。

We've done that with clubs and things over the years. And again, stacking high and watch it fly is our plan, but we will get that revved up probably midyear next year, and I'm excited about that because when you run into those, you buy them. And Intex, while we love that team, it's very slim, have no service, no real ability to do that, and we do that every day.

多年來我們已經在俱樂部和其他事情上做到了這一點。再說一次，我們的計劃是堆積起來，看著它飛翔，但我們可能會在明年年中加速這一計劃，我對此感到很興奮，因為當你遇到這些時，你就會購買它們。而 Intex，雖然我們喜歡這個團隊，但它的規模非常小，沒有服務，沒有真正的能力做到這一點，而我們每天都這樣做。

And then one more for you, Rocky. Just the $7.8 million charge, I assume that hit your SG&A, and assuming that was the only big add-back, it looks like SG&A as a percent of sales would have been closer to 31% in Q3. How should we think about SG&A either as a percent of sales or in dollars in Q4? And then as we get into 2025 and start to integrate those two acquisitions, is there and how much is there leverage on that SG&A line in 2025?

然後再給你一份，洛基。我認為僅 780 萬美元的費用就影響了您的 SG&A，並假設這是唯一的大額回加，看起來 SG&A 在第三季度佔銷售額的百分比將接近 31%。我們該如何看待第四季的銷售及管理費用（SG&A）佔銷售額的百分比還是美元？然後，當我們進入 2025 年並開始整合這兩項收購時，到 2025 年該 SG&A 線是否有槓桿作用以及槓桿作用有多大？

Yes. Clearly, there'll be some as we integrate, Lee. What I would tell you is the fourth quarter, we always have a little less leverage on our SG&A, as you know, because of volumes and the seasonality of the business. So we'll probably be, I would say, a bit above 31% in the fourth quarter, but we said was for the full year, we expect it to be around 30%, and I think we'll still stick to that.

是的。顯然，當我們整合時，會有一些，李。我想告訴你的是，如你所知，由於業務量和季節性，我們在第四季度的銷售、管理和行政費用（SG&A）槓桿總是會減少一些。所以我想說，第四季度我們可能會略高於 31%，但我們說的是全年，我們預計會在 30% 左右，我認為我們仍然會堅持這一點。

And that's 30% adjusted, correct?

調整了 30%，對嗎？

Correct. That's right.

正確的。這是正確的。

Gerard Patel, Jefferies.

傑拉德·帕特爾，杰弗里斯。

Actually it's Steve here if that's all right. A couple of quick questions. So first, JMA, I think you were talking -- I think it was you who was talking about renegotiating your container rates for next year. Just remind us how we should think about the timing differences sort of when you're able to pass that through. Is there a temporary impact on gross margin?

事實上，如果可以的話，史蒂夫就在這裡。幾個簡單的問題。首先，JMA，我認為您在談論 - 我認為是您在談論重新談判明年的貨櫃費率。只是提醒我們，當您能夠通過時，我們應該如何考慮時間差異。對毛利率有暫時的影響嗎？

Yes. So yes, that is correct. So we'll negotiate, rates will go into effect as of May 1, 2025. We typically have 4 to six months depending on the contract and the timing, at least, for that to be able to hit, that stacks up on the balance sheet rolls off. So any increases will really be nominal at the end or in the fourth quarter of 2025.

是的。所以是的，這是正確的。因此我們將進行協商，費率將於 2025 年 5 月 1 日起生效。我們通常有 4 到 6 個月的時間，這取決於合約和時間，至少，為了能夠實現這一目標，資產負債表上的資產會滾存。因此，到 2025 年底或第四季度，任何成長實際上都只是名義上的。

Okay. And I think one of you said something about 47% or better kind of in '25. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But just any puts and takes relative to kind of gross margin as we think about '25?

好的。我認為你們中的一個人在 25 年說過大約 47% 或更好的說法。如果我錯了，請糾正我。但是，當我們考慮 25 世紀時，任何與毛利率相關的看跌期權和看跌期權？

Yes. I think, Steve, as we think about our business, as we said on the call, we believe RDS returns to growth in 2025. And so that's a natural kind of barrier or floor to that rate because we see such good rates in that business.

是的。史蒂夫，我認為，正如我們在電話會議上所說，當我們考慮我們的業務時，我們相信 RDS 會在 2025 年恢復成長。因此，這是該費率的自然障礙或底線，因為我們看到該業務的費率非常好。

We've grown our gross margin and our EBITDA rate despite our largest business kind of being depressed over the last year or two. And so as we see it returning, that creates a natural floor to that number. I think over time, as you see us winning categories, there'll be mix issues that could be positive or negative, but a lot of the categories that were likely to grow in the HPS business, they'll probably be slightly negative.

儘管我們最大的業務在過去一兩年陷入低迷，但我們的毛利率和 EBITDA 比率仍然有所增長。因此，當我們看到它回歸時，就會為這個數字創造一個自然的下限。我認為隨著時間的推移，當你看到我們贏得類別時，將會出現可能是積極的也可能是消極的混合問題，但許多可能在 HPS 業務中增長的類別，它們可能會略有負面。

Again, we're leaving a quarter at 48%. So we've got some room to start with. And I think, again, we create a natural floor with RDS growing that allows us to maintain that 47% type plus rate, not only in '25 but kind of for the foreseeable future.

同樣，我們將 48% 的季度利率保持在 48%。所以我們有一些空間可以開始。我再次認為，隨著 RDS 的成長，我們創造了一個自然的底線，使我們能夠保持 47% 的類型加成率，不僅在 25 年，而且在可預見的未來也是如此。

Brian McNamara, Canaccord Genuity.

麥克納馬拉 (Brian McNamara)，Canaccord Genuity。

I guess I want to dig in a little more to RDS, and it's been weak for several quarters. Most of it is out of your control. But I guess my question is, do you guys need to be there? And I guess I want to gauge your willingness to maybe move on from that asset if it doesn't significantly improve.

我想我想對 RDS 進行更多的研究，它已經有幾個季度表現疲軟了。大部分都是你無法控制的。但我想我的問題是，你們需要在那裡嗎？我想我想衡量一下，如果該資產沒有顯著改善，您是否願意放棄該資產。

Yes. I mean, first of all, we don't need to be there. I mean our customers would love us with it or without it. I don't think there's any issue there on either side of that. What I've said before because of what's been out there is that this is a business that we will turn with new 3.5 investment, and we'll have this thing in a place where it will be valuable to keep or valuable to sell.

是的。我的意思是，首先，我們不需要在那裡。我的意思是，無論有沒有它，我們的客戶都會喜歡我們。我認為雙方都沒有任何問題。我之前說過，因為已經發生過的事情，我們將透過新的 3.5 投資來扭轉這項業務，我們將把這個東西放在一個值得保留或有價值出售的地方。

And I like having, Brian, the option because we have so many things we could do in addition to what we have planned if we did sell it. But again, it's not bad to hang on to a 72%, 73% gross margin, 32% EBITDA margin business that's growing.

布萊恩，我喜歡擁有這個選擇權，因為如果我們出售它，除了我們計劃要做的事情之外，我們還有很多事情要做。但同樣，維持不斷成長的 72%、73% 毛利率、32% EBITDA 利潤率業務也不錯。

We're just in that period right now that we're transferring, transitioning from one technology to the next in an environment, as you know, that is existing home sales-dependent. So we're going to get it going and then have options and no, but there's no negative here if we decided to -- there was better value for our shareholders to sell it versus to keep it. But we're going to put it in a position where it doesn't matter.

我們現在正處於這樣一個時期，我們正在從一種技術過渡到另一種技術，如您所知，這是依賴現有房屋銷售的環境。因此，我們將讓它繼續下去，然後有選擇，但如果我們決定這樣做，這也沒有什麼負面影響——對我們的股東來說，出售它比保留它更有價值。但我們要把它放在一個無關緊要的位置。

And then secondly, I'm just curious about how the Intex integration has gone so far relative to your expectations. I believe the Koch acquisition took about 90 days to complete. And then just any follow-up in terms of how the M&A pipeline is looking? It looks like you had a few candidates the last time we spoke.

其次，我只是好奇 Intex 整合到目前為止與您的期望相比如何。我相信 Koch 收購大約需要 90 天才能完成。那麼關於併購通路的後續情況如何？上次我們談話時，您似乎已經有幾個候選人了。

Great. Brian, I'll take the Intex piece. The team has done a great job. Structurally, we have integrated that business. We have the teams operating with the different parts of our organization from sales, product operations.

偉大的。布萊恩，我要買 Intex 的那件。該團隊做得很好。從結構上講，我們已經整合了該業務。我們的團隊與我們組織的不同部門（從銷售、產品運營）一起運作。

So we feel really good about that as quick as we did with Koch. The system side will be -- over the next couple of months, we'll finish that up, but we actually feel really good about where we are and where the alignment is in that business. So super excited about having Intex a part of Hillman. And I'll turn it over to--

所以我們對此感覺非常好，就像我們對科赫所做的那樣。系統方面將在接下來的幾個月內完成，但我們實際上對我們所處的位置以及該業務中的一致性感到非常滿意。對於 Intex 成為 Hillman 的一部分感到非常興奮。我會把它交給——

Yes. I mean, Brian, what's exciting for me personally is that we've been able to get this going again. I will tell you that convincing an entrepreneur or a management team that they should be owned by Hillman is literally like shooting fish in a barrel. And so as Executive Chairman, I'm going to be helping JMA and Rocky and Hillman with that.

是的。我的意思是，布萊恩，對我個人來說令人興奮的是我們能夠再次讓這件事繼續下去。我會告訴你，讓企業家或管理團隊相信他們應該歸希爾曼所有就像在桶裡射魚一樣。作為執行主席，我將在這方面幫助 JMA 以及 Rocky 和 ​​Hillman。

Super excited about that. And as you know, with the debt markets right now, there's not a lot of private equity competition. Now flip side, when private equity comes back out, they're going to be obviously selling some things. So I think the prospects will be good. As JMA said, a couple of years makes great sense, and I don't see any change to that.

對此超級興奮。如您所知，在目前的債務市場上，私募股權競爭並不多。另一方面，當私募股權回歸時，他們顯然會出售一些東西。所以我認為前景會很好。正如 JMA 所說，幾年的時間很有意義，而且我認為這不會有任何改變。

Brian Butler, Stifel.

布萊恩巴特勒，斯蒂菲爾。

Just the first one on the -- you talked about price was, I think, down 1%. When you think of the price/cost spread, what does that trend look like in the third quarter? And then, I guess, going into the fourth quarter and even 2025?

我認為，您談到的第一個價格下降了 1%。當您考慮價格/成本差時，第三季的趨勢是什麼樣的？然後，我想，進入第四季甚至 2025 年？

Yes. I mean it's going to be a slight headwind, Brian, obviously, relative to where we were in the second because of the rollout of the price get-back. And pretty much we're at a good spot around the cost of our inventory now. There's not dramatic changes. What we would tell you is there will be in the first half of '25, there will going to be a bit of a negative from price unless we do something around pricing with our customers.

是的。我的意思是，布萊恩，顯然，相對於我們第二階段的情況，由於價格回調的推出，這將是一個輕微的逆風。現在我們的庫存成本幾乎處於一個良好的位置。沒有什麼戲劇性的變化。我們可以告訴您的是，到 25 年上半年，價格將會出現一些負面影響，除非我們與客戶一起圍繞定價採取一些措施。

And we would expect as we go into '25 that we could potentially see a little bit of commodity benefit. But as you think about things like freight, you think about things like rent as we renew facilities, you think about things like labour, none of those costs are going down in our business.

我們預計，當我們進入 25 年時，我們可能會看到一些大宗商品的好處。但當你想到貨運之類的事情時，你會想到我們更新設施時的租金之類的事情，你會想到勞動力之類的事情，但我們的業務中這些成本都沒有下降。

So, we have to think strategically about that, how we offset those costs. And then to the extent that we can't, we have to go to market with price. Historically, that's been every three years, we go to market with about 3% price, and we'll have to think about and are thinking strategically now about when and how we take price to market in the future.

因此，我們必須從戰略上思考如何抵消這些成本。如果我們做不到，我們就必須以價格進入市場。從歷史上看，每三年我們就會以大約 3% 的價格進入市場，我們現在必須考慮並正在策略性地考慮未來何時以及如何將價格推向市場。

And then a follow-up, just on the RDS segment, second quarter, you talked about some opportunities post the Redbox liquidation. Do you have an update their maybe on what those opportunities look like now, if they've changed, and maybe how they play out over the next couple of quarters?

然後是後續行動，就在第二季的 RDS 部分，您談到了 Redbox 清算後的一些機會。您是否了解這些機會現在的情況、是否發生了變化，以及它們在未來幾季的表現？

Yes. I think we've started -- we've secured two contracts. One has already started, and the second one will start in this quarter, and it's essentially us servicing machines for other kiosk operators. At this point, Brian, it should be good for us in '25. Whether we expand it outside of that or not is really dependent on what we decide to do taking care of and how big the auto side of that is.

是的。我想我們已經開始了——我們已經獲得了兩份合約。其中一個已經啟動，第二個將在本季度啟動，它本質上是我們為其他自助服務終端運營商提供服務的機器。Brian，在這一點上，這對我們 25 年來說應該是有好處的。我們是否將其擴展到此之外，實際上取決於我們決定做什麼以及汽車方面有多大。

So that's the juggling act right now. But no, both are signed, both are off and running and both are profitable about the same fleet margin rate and EBITDA rate that we have in our business. So yes, it's good right now. Both are on their way.

這就是現在的雜耍行為。但不，兩者都已簽署，都已關閉並運行，並且都在與我們業務相同的機隊利潤率和 EBITDA 率上盈利。所以是的，現在很好。兩人都在路上。

(Operator Instructions) And this does conclude the question-and-answer session of today's program. I'd like to hand the program back to Mr. Cahill for any further remarks.

（操作者說明） 今天節目的問答環節到此結束。我想把程序交還給卡希爾先生以供進一步評論。

Thanks, Jonathan. Thank you, everybody, for joining us this morning. We look forward to updating you on our progress early next year.

謝謝，喬納森。謝謝大家今天早上加入我們。我們期待明年初向您通報我們的最新進展。

Thank you, ladies, and gentlemen, for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect. Good day.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們參加今天的會議。這確實結束了該程式。您現在可以斷開連線。再會。