HDFC Bank Ltd (HDB) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, good evening, and welcome to HDFC Bank Limited Q4 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call on the financial results presented by the management of HDFC Bank. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Srinivasan Vaidyanathan, Chief Financial Officer, HDFC Bank. Thank you. And over to you, sir.

女士們、先生們，晚上好，歡迎參加 HDFC 銀行有限公司 24 財年第 4 季收益電話會議，會議內容涉及 HDFC 銀行管理層公佈的財務業績。 （操作員說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄製中。我現在將會議交給 HDFC 銀行財務長 Srinivasan Vaidyanathan 先生。謝謝。接下來就交給您了，先生。

Thank you very much. Good evening, and a warm welcome to all the participants. You would see some earnings presentation deck posted. Kindly download them as appropriate or you could refer it online and use that. We have Sashi Jagdishan, our CEO and MD, with us today. He will have an opening remarks. And soon after that, we'll get to the Q&A and take you on from there in terms of any other clarifications or questions that you have.

非常感謝。晚上好，對各位嘉賓的到來表示熱烈的歡迎。您會看到一些發布的收益簡報。請根據需要下載它們，或者您可以在線參考並使用它。今天我們有我們的執行長兼董事總經理 Sashi Jagdishan。他將致開幕詞。不久之後，我們將進入問答環節，並就您提出的任何其他澄清或問題向您進行解答。

With that, welcome, Sashi, and please take it over.

就這樣，歡迎，Sashi，請接管它。

Thank you, Srini, and thank you all for joining this call. Yes, it's quite a while since I joined an earnings call. So I may be a bit rusty, but do pardon me for that. Ever since the famous or some of you may call it infamous Q3 earnings call results, we have received a lot of feedback from several of you. With all humility, we have incorporated most of the feedback, so we are grateful for that. Thank you for that.

謝謝斯里尼，也感謝大家參加這次電話會議。是的，我已經有一段時間沒有參加財報電話會議了。所以我可能有點生疏，但請原諒我。自從名人或你們中的一些人稱之為臭名昭著的第三季度財報電話會議結果以來，我們收到了你們中的一些人的大量反饋。我們非常謙虛地吸收了大部分回饋，因此我們對此表示感謝。謝謝你。

I may have mentioned in the past, maybe in the last investor conference that I came on, it's important to reiterate that this is a completely new organization. The merger with a nonbank financial entity, the eHDFC Limited and the bank has landed a certain set of day one financials, and so there is a new starting point across all metrics. This is a new organization. So it will be -- we have to, not only you but even us, we have to desist from having any comparisons vis-a-vis the stand-alone financials of either the bank or even the erstwhile HDFC Limited.

我過去可能曾提到過，也許在我參加的上一次投資人會議上，重申這是一個全新的組織很重要。與非銀行金融實體 eHDFC Limited 和銀行的合併已經獲得了一組特定的第一天財務數據，因此所有指標都有了一個新的起點。這是一個新的組織。所以，我們必須，不僅是你，甚至我們，我們都必須停止與銀行甚至以前的 HDFC Limited 的獨立財務狀況進行任何比較。

We are now 9 months into the merger. The core metrics have remained stable since the time we merged with HDFC Limited. What does this demonstrate? This demonstrates that the underlying resiliency and the energy of the stand-alone franchise of the bank is very stable. And this is what something that all of us have witnessed over the last 30 years. So this should be a bit of a positive for all of us, whether inside or externally that the resiliency of institution continues despite a very adverse macro conditions. What's the focus that we are now focusing internally?

我們現在已經進行了 9 個月的合併。自從我們與 HDFC Limited 合併以來，核心指標一直保持穩定。這說明了什麼？這顯示該銀行獨立特許經營的潛在彈性和活力非常穩定。這就是我們所有人在過去 30 年裡親眼目睹的事情。因此，無論是在內部還是外部，這對我們所有人來說都應該是一件積極的事情，因為儘管宏觀條件非常不利，但機構的彈性仍在繼續。我們現在內部關注的焦點是什麼？

The key focus over the medium to long term, the medium as I define it between 2 and 3 years, is to focus on improving our profitability metrics defined as the ROAs and the earnings per share. To achieve that, what is key is to ensure the most important focus is the sustainability of our deposit franchise, especially the retail deposit franchise. And that can -- that's going to be achieved not because of any shortcuts that we can take. Yes, there is a price environment. There's a market intensity. There's a competitive environment that is there. That's a reality. But how do we ensure that we are on par with some of the key players in the market and we don't try and overprice ourselves or don't bid for some of these deposits, is the strength of the franchise.

中長期（我將其定義為 2 到 3 年）的關鍵焦點是專注於提高我們的獲利指標，即 ROA 和每股盈餘。要實現這一目標，關鍵是要確保最重要的重點是我們存款業務的可持續性，特別是零售存款業務的可持續性。這是可以實現的，不是因為我們可以採取任何捷徑。是的，有一個價格環境。有市場強度。那裡有一個競爭環境。這是現實。但是，我們如何確保我們與市場上的一些主要參與者處於同一水平，並且我們不會嘗試過高定價或不競標其中一些存款，這就是特許經營權的優勢。

We have done that and probably as we go along, and that will be reflected in some of the financial metrics of the organization. The key to this sustainable momentum is our enhanced customer engagements and elevated service-first culture. We are not saying that after 30 years, obviously, there's a reason why we have reached this kind of excellence in this deposit mobilization franchise, but we have realized that if you have to be even better, the only way is to elevate the customer service-first culture and we have a lot of measurement and monitoring mechanism in place internally for that. So the intensity of the same is going to be heightened and that's what we're driving and that's somewhere reflected even in this tighter environment that we have seen.

我們已經做到了這一點，並且可能隨著我們的進展，這將反映在組織的一些財務指標中。這種永續發展動能的關鍵是我們增強的客戶參與度和提升的服務第一文化。顯然，我們並不是說 30 年後，我們在存款動員專營權方面達到瞭如此卓越的水平，但我們已經意識到，如果您必須做得更好，唯一的方法就是提升客戶服務-第一文化，我們內部為此建立了許多衡量和監控機制。因此，同樣的強度將會增強，這就是我們正在推動的，即使在我們所看到的這個更緊張的環境中，這也在某些地方得到了反映。

We will continue to invest in distribution, in people and technology. In fact, our operating leverage will be harnessed over a period of time to using enhanced tech and digital infrastructure. It's not something new, but we have always emphasized not just now, but for a long period of time that we are not a quantity player, whether for liabilities or whether for assets as well. Our focus is on quality, which is a balance between risk and margins. In several cases and several points of time, we have demonstrated that whenever there is any adverse or early indicators on the risk side, we tend to grow slow or if there is heightened competition or irrational competition, both on the liabilities and assets side, we are happy to give up that kind of a share. So we're happy to grow slow.

我們將繼續投資於分銷、人員和技術。事實上，我們的營運槓桿將在一段時間內利用增強的技術和數位基礎設施。這不是什麼新鮮事，但我們不僅現在而且在很長一段時間內一直強調，我們不是一個數量玩家，無論是負債還是資產。我們的重點是質量，這是風險和利潤之間的平衡。在幾個案例和幾個時間點上，我們已經證明，每當風險方面出現任何不利或早期跡象時，我們往往會增長緩慢，或者如果負債和資產方面的競爭加劇或非理性競爭，我們就會傾向於增長緩慢。所以我們很高興能夠緩慢成長。

These kind of gyrations will be there, not just now but even in the future. And so these are the kind of adjustments that we tend to do. But we have seen in the past that hardball price-based strategy is not a sustainable strategy. This will be -- this will also pass. And I guess, over a period of time, people who continue to stay and not vacate the place will survive and will thrive as well. I know a lot of you have -- are very eager to get some guidance and outlook on some of the metrics, and I don't blame you all for that. And it is something that probably is necessary for your model building. But unfortunately, we have realized that it's not just now but even in the past, that providing a guidance is something kind of a distraction towards our long-term objectives. We would like to stay focus.

這種迴旋將會存在，不僅是現在，甚至在未來也是如此。因此，這些是我們傾向於進行的調整。但我們過去已經看到，強硬的基於價格的策略並不是可持續的策略。這將會——這也會過去。我想，在一段時間內，繼續留下來而不離開這個地方的人將會生存下來，也會蓬勃發展。我知道你們很多人都非常渴望獲得一些指標的指導和展望，我不會因此責怪你們所有人。這可能是你的模型構建所必需的。但不幸的是，我們意識到，不僅現在，甚至在過去，提供指導都會分散我們對長期目標的注意力。我們希望保持專注。

So we shall -- I know you will try and ask for a lot of outlooks and guidances in various ways, during the course of this call, I'm sure. But we will be steadfast in trying to ensure that we don't give them. I know you will scream saying that we are continuing to carry on truisms and not sort of -- not giving any tangible outlook, but I can assure you that we will have an anchor in terms of the profitability metrics, which is the long term -- medium- to long-term view, which I can say is, which is already there in the deck, which is pretty healthy but with a bias of -- on an increasing trajectory.

因此，我確信，在這次電話會議期間，您會嘗試以各種方式尋求許多觀點和指導。但我們將堅定不移地努力確保我們不會給予他們。我知道你會尖叫說我們將繼續堅持老生常談，而不是——沒有給出任何切實的前景，但我可以向你保證，我們將在盈利指標方面有一個基礎，這是長期的—— - 中長期觀點，我可以說，它已經存在於甲板上，相當健康，但有偏見- 處於不斷增長的軌道上。

The quarter 4 results is a manifestation of the hard work of the entire workforce of HDFC Bank and ably led by the leadership team. It's a great opportunity for me to thank each one of my staff, which -- all my ground force for rallying around despite the challenging macro environment. If you've seen the deck, I would like to just summarize that we continue to gain market share in deposits, despite and not -- and I think it will be visible that we have kept the cost of deposits rather range bound. Our asset growth has adjusted to recoup the liquidity buffer. So if you've seen for the full year, the incremental credit deposit ratio or loan deposit ratio is more or less similar to what we have always done. In fact, the advances mix is more or less towards better yielding segments like retail and CRB.

第四季的業績是 HDFC 銀行全體員工辛勤工作和領導團隊幹練領導的體現。對我來說，這是一個很好的機會來感謝我的每一位員工，儘管宏觀環境充滿挑戰，但我所有的地面部隊仍然團結在一起。如果你看過這張牌，我想總結一下，儘管如此，我們仍繼續獲得存款市場份額，而且我認為很明顯，我們將存款成本控制在一定範圍內。我們的資產成長已進行調整，以收回流動性緩衝。因此，如果你看到全年情況，增量信貸存款比率或貸款存款比率或多或少與我們一直以來所做的類似。事實上，預付款組合或多或少是朝著零售和 CRB 等收益更高的領域發展的。

We did have one-off gains during the quarter, but we have nullified the impact with an equivalent one-off provisions. Our asset quality continues to be very pristine. All our portfolios across segments, including early indicators, continue to be benign. We have, as a part of prudent risk management, created a countercyclical provision, which is a provision in good times. And this is something that we have done in the past, and this is one of our philosophies right through. There is a certain rationale for creating these provisions, which we will sort of call out when you -- during the Q&A. We believe that such provisions really enhances the resilience of the balance sheet. I think even after adjusting all these one-offs and nullifying the same, the core return on as is in the range that we've operated in the past, and that should be a great indicator for the future as well.

我們在本季度確實獲得了一次性收益，但我們已經透過同等的一次性準備金抵消了這一影響。我們的資產品質仍然非常原始。我們跨細分市場的所有投資組合，包括早期指標，仍然是良性的。作為審慎風險管理的一部分，我們設立了逆週期準備金，這是景氣時期的準備金。這是我們過去做過的事情，也是我們始終堅持的理念之一。制定這些規定有一定的理由，我們會在問答過程中指出這一點。我們認為，這些規定確實增強了資產負債表的彈性。我認為，即使在調整所有這些一次性因素並取消相同因素之後，核心回報率仍處於我們過去營運的範圍內，這也應該是未來的一個很好的指標。

So I think we will pause, I'll pause, and the 3 of us are here to take more questions from anyone of you. Thank you.

所以我想我們會暫停，我會暫停，我們三個人在這裡回答大家提出的更多問題。謝謝。

Thank you, Sashi. Let's open up the line for questions and so that we can take it as it comes along.

謝謝你，薩西。讓我們開放提問熱線，以便我們可以隨時接受。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

The first question is from the line of Mahrukh Adajania from Nuvama.

第一個問題來自努瓦馬的馬魯克·阿達賈尼亞 (Mahrukh Adajania) 的血統。

Thanks Sashi for the opening remarks. My first question, I know you said you will not give guidance, but if you see our deposit mobilization, it has been very strong. It came out in the business update. And the cost -- the interest expenses for the 2 quarters are not very different from each other. So do we see a bulk of the expenses of this quarter -- or fourth quarter's mobilization coming into the first quarter? And also in terms of LDR, I mean I think you possibly laid out in the beginning about retail deposit mobilization being a key focus. But still, in terms of LDR, would you want to reach 100 or below in an accelerated fashion?

感謝薩西的開場白。我的第一個問題，我知道你說過你不會給予指導，但如果你看到我們的存款動員，它非常強勁。它出現在業務更新中。而成本——兩季的利息支出相差不大。那麼，我們是否會看到本季或第四季動員的大部分費用進入第一季？就 LDR 而言，我的意思是，我認為您可能在一開始就將零售存款動員作為重點。但是，就 LDR 而言，您是否希望加速達到 100 或更低？

Mahrukh, good to hear from you. Let me try and answer the latter question first. As I mentioned, the focus is primarily going to be trying to see how we can focus on the core retail deposit franchise. And obviously, when we talk about the core retail, it's largely the small granular deposit set, it is the key there. But for us, the way we define retailers, what are the kind of segments which are there around the branch catchments and which is there and also what is already there in the portfolio.

Mahrukh，很高興收到你的來信。讓我先試著回答後一個問題。正如我所提到的，重點主要是試著了解如何專注於核心零售存款業務。顯然，當我們談論核心零售時，它主要是小顆粒存款集，它是關鍵。但對我們來說，我們定義零售商的方式是，分行流域周圍有哪些細分市場，以及投資組合中已有哪些細分市場。

When we talk about the retail momentum, obviously, we have a certain market, which you have alluded. We try to ensure that we -- the price point at which we offer is on par with some of the larger banks that offer similar rates, and we are not an outlier. Just because we need to have this as an imperative, doesn't mean that we will go out to pay anything that comes about. As I mentioned as a part of the opening remarks, we are not in that price game at all. And one of the reasons that you're seeing a little bit of stability in the cost of funds between 2 quarters is a resultant of maintaining parity and equivalence in terms of the rates that we offer across our segments.

當我們談論零售勢頭時，顯然，我們有一定的市場，正如你所提到的。我們努力確保我們提供的價格點與一些提供類似利率的大型銀行持平，並且我們不是異常者。僅僅因為我們需要將此視為當務之急，並不意味著我們會付出一切代價。正如我在開場白中提到的，我們根本沒有參與價格遊戲。您看到兩個季度之間資金成本略有穩定的原因之一是我們在各個部門提供的利率方面保持了平價和對等。

As regards the loan deposit ratio, yes, our priority is to raise as much as possible. But obviously, it has to be subject to the liquidity environment and the competitive environment. As and when it becomes benign, obviously, we can raise more. But if it is going to be intense, then we will have only a certain proportion to raise. While the quarter 4 mobilization is extremely healthy, I must sort of upfront tell you that there are some transitory involuntary flows that will also come in, which is obviously more than what we had anticipated. But even adjusting for that, the retail ones are rather healthy, which is there in the deck. So will I be able to maintain this kind of momentum, et cetera?

至於貸存比，是的，我們的首要任務是盡可能提高。但顯然，它必須受到流動性環境和競爭環境的影響。顯然，當它變得良性時，我們可以籌集更多資金。但如果情況很激烈，那麼我們就只能籌集一定比例的資金。雖然第四季的動員非常健康，但我必須預先告訴大家，也會有一些暫時性的非自願流動，這顯然比我們的預期要多。但即使調整了這一點，零售也相當健康，這是在甲板上。那麼我能否保持這種勢頭等等？

As you know, you take a long-term average of over 6 years or so, there is a certain proportion of total deposits, which come in Q1, which is probably the lowest as a proportion. Q2 and Q3 are more similar in terms of proportion and the largest part of the proportion in a year comes in the fourth quarter, and which is what we have. And this is not something anything different from what we see in the banking system. This is a very similar pattern that is there, plus or minus some kind of a change. So the LDR is a function of what we mobilize. And obviously, if you have to commit the loans, it has to be out of our core franchise, the core mobilization and not transitory mobilization. You probably know this much better.

大家知道，以6年左右的長期平均來看，總存款有一定比例，第一季的比例可能是最低的。 Q2和Q3在佔比上比較相似，一年中佔比最大的部分出現在第四季度，這也是我們所擁有的。這與我們在銀行系統中看到的沒有什麼不同。這是一個非常相似的模式，加上或減去某種變化。因此，LDR 是我們動員的函數。顯然，如果你必須提供貸款，它必須超出我們的核心特許經營權、核心動員，而不是臨時動員。您可能會更了解這一點。

We also have -- or we would be having bond maturities erstwhile HDFC Limited, which will mature every year. And there is a maturity pattern, which is there for next year. So the first priority is to keep reserves and the balance is to repay some of the bond maturities. And if you -- and the balance and the residue is where we will deploy on our core assets. So willy-nilly, all things remaining same, your LDR or incremental LDR will be a tad lower for a couple of years than what we have seen in the past because we have this obligation of repaying some of the bond maturities.

我們還有——或者說我們以前的 HDFC Limited 債券也會到期，該債券每年都會到期。明年有一個成熟模式。因此，首要任務是保留準備金，餘額用於償還部分債券到期日。如果你——餘額和剩餘部分就是我們將部署在我們的核心資產上的地方。因此，無論願意與否，在所有情況保持不變的情況下，您的 LDR 或增量 LDR 在幾年內將比我們過去看到的略低，因為我們有償還部分債券到期日的義務。

So is that going to be hampered? I feel not because as long as we maintain discipline on ensuring that we don't go below price point on the yield on certain products across customer segments, as long as we don't go above a certain threshold on the pricing of liabilities. I think we'll be able to maintain stability in our margins and at the same time, we may have other levers, which will come our way to offset some of the lower LDRs going forward. So this is a broad outlook. I'm not going to fall into the trap of giving any number outlook, but this is -- you can guess by now that this is the general thought process that we have.

那麼這會受到阻礙嗎？我覺得不會，因為只要我們保持紀律，確保跨客戶群的某些產品的收益率不低於價格點，只要我們的負債定價不超過某個門檻。我認為我們將能夠保持利潤率的穩定，同時，我們可能還有其他槓桿，這將幫助我們抵消未來一些較低的貸存比。所以這是一個廣闊的前景。我不會陷入給出任何數位前景的陷阱，但這就是——你現在可以猜到這是我們的一般思維過程。

The next question is from the line of Pranav G from Bernstein.

下一個問題來自 Bernstein 的 Pranav G。

I have 2 questions. First is regarding the earlier comments on the pricing discipline, Sashi, I think, how does the bank gain comfort that it's irrational competition and not a new normal in terms of competitive intensity? Especially given that for most part of the last decade, we had a large part of the sector almost missing in action, right? So that is one. And second question is on the PSL. How is the bank positioned on the PSL front? And should we expect any sort of an impact, big impact when the requirements on the erstwhile HDFC portfolio picks in later this year?

我有 2 個問題。首先是關於先前對定價紀律的評論，Sashi，我認為，銀行如何才能放心，這是非理性競爭，而不是競爭強度的新常態？特別是考慮到在過去十年的大部分時間裡，我們該部門的很大一部分幾乎沒有行動，對嗎？這就是其中之一。第二個問題是關於 PSL 的。該銀行在 PSL 方面的定位如何？當今年稍後對以前的 HDFC 投資組合的要求出現時，我們是否應該預期會產生任何形式的重大影響？

So thank you, Pranav. The fact is that I cannot sort of predict how the competition is going to behave. All I can tell you is we have sufficient history, which suggests that the price-based competition or price-based strategy is not a sustainable strategy, and it's only a short-term strategy at the most. We have seen it in the mid of 2000s on a certain asset product. We see -- we have seen it in multiple products over the years, and we have a rich experience to that effect.

所以謝謝你，普拉納夫。事實上，我無法預測競爭對手的表現。我只能告訴你，我們有足夠的歷史，這表明基於價格的競爭或基於價格的策略不是一個可持續的策略，它最多只是一個短期策略。我們在2000年代中期就在某種資產產品上看到過這種情況。我們看到——多年來我們在多種產品中看到了這一點，並且我們在這方面擁有豐富的經驗。

Frankly, as I said over the last months, we have been witness to this. We have actually experienced rather intensely the competitive environment, which also borders on some amount of, what should I say, heightened rate wars on the liability side because liquidity was tight and probably there were a lot of other compulsions for other competitive players, which force them to sort of price their deposits higher. But I mean since the most infamous quarter 3, where all of you have probably done a lot of research, frankly, Q3 was actually a classical quarter where we chose or elected not to do so. Now can I predict this that this will not happen?

坦白說，正如我過去幾個月所說，我們已經見證了這一點。我們實際上經歷了相當激烈的競爭環境，這也接近於負債方面的某種程度的，我應該說，加劇的利率戰爭，因為流動性緊張，並且可能對其他競爭者有很多其他強迫，這迫使他們將存款定價得更高。但我的意思是，自從最臭名昭著的第三季度以來，你們所有人可能都做了很多研究，坦白說，第三季度實際上是一個經典的季度，我們選擇或選擇不這樣做。現在我可以預測這不會發生嗎？

Absolutely not. But I can tell you one thing that none of the organizations will have the ability to continue this kind of heightened irrational pricing for a long period of time. It is important for us to be focused, continue to get the granular momentum, principally out of our product and service offerings, which is the reason why one of the strategic objectives that we have laid out as an organization is to elevate the customer service culture. Let me explain it in very simple terms what we mean by that. Frankly, as you -- probably all of you know that I have now traveled rather well over the last 18 months across the length and breadth of the country. We have a fantastic team at the ground level. We are very proud of them.

絕對不。但我可以告訴你一件事，沒有一個組織有能力長期持續這種高度不合理的定價。對我們來說，重要的是要集中精力，繼續獲得顆粒動力，主要是透過我們的產品和服務提供，這就是為什麼我們作為一個組織制定的策略目標之一是提升客戶服務文化。讓我用非常簡單的術語來解釋一下我們的意思。坦白說，你們——可能你們所有人都知道，在過去的 18 個月裡，我已經相當順利地走遍了這個國家的各個角落。我們在基層擁有一支出色的團隊。我們為他們感到非常自豪。

I'm very proud of the leadership team at the ground level. I think there is a kind of a congruence in terms of the strategic goals of focusing on granular deposits, focusing on service-first culture. Now to a customer, the customers' needs are very limited. He would either have a financial need in the form of an account, opening a savings account or a checking account or he may need an insurance, he may probably need to deploy his surpluses in some -- in mutual funds or in equity instruments or any other alternative instruments or even have a need for a loan, it could be any kinds of loan. The fact that the bank has now with mortgages, the entire suite of product offering, all that is needed is how do we respond in a manner that depicts a lot of respect to the customer.

我為基層的領導團隊感到非常自豪。我認為，關注粒狀存款和關注服務第一文化的策略目標是一致的。現在對於一個客戶來說，客戶的需求是非常有限的。他要么有帳戶形式的財務需求，開立儲蓄帳戶或支票帳戶，要么他可能需要保險，他可能需要將其盈餘配置在某些方面——共同基金或權益工具或任何其他方面。甚至需要貸款，它可以是任何類型的貸款。事實上，銀行現在擁有抵押貸款、整套產品，所需要的只是我們如何以一種尊重客戶的方式回應。

The speed of response is what we are looking at. It may be very, in your words, Pranav, very truistic, in terms of very generic and this is not something measurable. I can assure you that we have a reasonable amount of measurement. We have tasked our supervisory architecture, which is 10% of the total workforce to -- in their KRAs to be measuring and monitoring all that comes in from a customer and try and see how we turn it around in the shortest possible time. We have the objectives of the supervisory architectures to ensure that the helpdesk front line shake the entire organization to be able to wow the customer. And that's the only sustainable way of ensuring that we get our primary banking from our customers, our higher wallet share.

響應速度是我們所關注的。用你的話來說，普拉納夫，這可能是非常不言而喻的，就非常通用而言，這是不可衡量的。我可以向您保證，我們有合理的測量量。我們給我們的監督架構（佔員工總數的 10%）分配了任務，在他們的 KRA 中測量和監控來自客戶的所有信息，並嘗試看看我們如何在最短的時間內扭轉局面。我們的監管架構目標是確保幫助台第一線影響整個組織，讓客戶驚嘆不已。這是確保我們從客戶那裡獲得主要銀行業務以及更高的錢包份額的唯一可持續方式。

The very fact that we are incrementally gaining more share than what we have on stock basis. I mean if you look at the incremental deposit market share, over a period of time, we have gained more than what we have as a stock, which means that this particular so-called strategy is working. We just want to elevate and enhance this. And despite the kind of intense competition, which continues to be existing or which was there both in quarter 3, in quarter 4 as well. We have gained reasonable market share means that strategy is going to work and if we just pull up our socks, we have a long way to go. We are not seeing there, we are perfect, but that's the opportunity. And as we execute this to the T, I'm telling you this is going to be one of our greatest achievements over the next medium to long term. So that's part one.

事實上，我們正​​在逐步獲得比庫存更多的份額。我的意思是，如果你看看增量存款市場份額，在一段時間內，我們獲得的收益超過了我們作為股票所獲得的收益，這意味著這種特殊的所謂策略正在發揮作用。我們只是想提升和加強這一點。儘管競爭激烈，但這種競爭仍然存在，或者在第三季和第四季都有。我們已經獲得了合理的市場份額，這意味著策略正在發揮作用，如果我們振作起來，我們還有很長的路要走。我們沒有看到那裡，我們是完美的，但這就是機會。當我們全力執行這項措施時，我告訴你們，這將是我們在下一個長期內最偉大的成就之一。這是第一部分。

Part two is on the price sector. It's not going be easy. Let's face it. We have -- if you really look at the priority sector. It's not going to be easy. Let's face it. We have -- if you really look at our priority sector obligations and our achievement, I'm not too sure whether that is there in the public domain, but probably...

第二部分是價格領域。這並不容易。面對現實吧。如果你真正關注優先領域的話，我們有。這並不容易。面對現實吧。我們——如果你真的看看我們的優先部門義務和我們的成就，我不太確定這是否存在於公共領域，但可能...

It will be published or it will soon be published. Because these are -- it is annually published.

即將出版或即將出版。因為這些是每年出版的。

Okay, so Pranav, this will be published. You will see that we have organically, maybe that may not be visible to you. But I can tell you that we have organically achieved our overall priority sector and most of the sub-targets as well. There are 2 particular sub-targets, which are small and marginal farmers and weaker section, which are joined to the hip. These are the 2 ones, which is not so easy to achieve. And - but having said that the spread at which we have now distributed over the last 3, 4 years in terms of geography, in terms of focus, by the commercial rural bank team, by the rural banking team and the sustainable livelihood initiative team. We believe that this typical trajectory will be going up, but I don't want to sort of give you any false hopes to anybody both internally and externally.

好的，普拉納夫，這將被出版。你會看到我們有機地做到了，也許你看不到。但我可以告訴你，我們已經有機地實現了我們的整體優先領域和大部分子目標。有兩個具體的子目標，即小農和邊緣農民以及弱勢群體，它們與臀部相連。這就是2個，這不是那麼容易實現的。而且 - 但話雖如此，我們現在在過去 3、4 年中在地理、重點方面、商業村鎮銀行團隊、村鎮銀行團隊和可持續生計倡議團隊的分佈情況。我們相信這種典型的軌跡將會上升，但我不想給內部和外部的任何人帶來任何虛假的希望。

This is one area that we have to ride on in inorganic ways of meeting these 2 sub-targets. And we are pretty much ceased and aware of the impact of when the 1/3 of the HDFC book starts to kick in from October onwards. And it will have an impact, but is it something that we are going to -- is it already embedded in our plan? Absolutely so. So when we talk about core profitability metrics, it has subsumed the drag rising out of this. So I'm not sort of going to be apologetic that we may not be meeting some of the sub-targets rising on this enhanced addition of the home loan stock in the priority sector reckoning, but we have factored that in our plans.

這是我們必須以無機方式實現這兩個子目標的一個領域。當 HDFC 書籍的 1/3 從 10 月開始生效時，我們幾乎已經停止並意識到了影響。它會產生影響，但這是否是我們要做的事情——它是否已經納入我們的計劃中？絕對是如此。因此，當我們談論核心獲利指標時，它已經包含了由此產生的阻力。因此，我不會因為我們可能無法實現在優先部門計算中增加房屋貸款存量而上升的一些子目標而感到抱歉，但我們已將其納入我們的計劃中。

And important to add a couple of things. Now in order to position ourself, at least in the medium-term to come, we expanded to 225,000 villages now where we operate. Now we embarked on working around those villages to go and mine more customers into that. So that the basic foundation has been set in terms of 225,000 villages. We believe we reached that point of where we want to be to do that. That's one.

重要的是要添加幾件事。現在，為了給自己定位，至少在未來的中期，我們將業務範圍擴展到了 225,000 個村莊。現在我們開始在這些村莊周圍開展工作，以挖掘更多客戶。至此，22.5萬個村莊的基本面已經奠定。我們相信我們已經達到了我們想要實現的目標。這是一個。

Second is, in the recent times, a couple of years ago, we were call it 117,000 small and marginal farmers. 117,000, that's the number. Due to various mining and various activities, today, we stand a little more than 3.5 million small and marginal farmers. So that's at a -- we've accelerated the pace at which we are getting this, so it's not something in a quarter or in a year, we could get to where we want to get. We are inorganically meeting certain things that we need, but we'd love to meet it organically, that fundamental -- the building blocks for that are laid and that's why we are progressing on those.

第二個是，最近，幾年前，我們稱之為117,000個小農和邊緣農戶。 117,000，就是這個數字。由於各種採礦和各種活動，今天我們有超過 350 萬小農和邊緣農戶。所以，我們已經加快了實現這一目標的速度，所以這不是一個季度或一年之內就能實現的事情，我們可以達到我們想要達到的目標。我們正在無機地滿足我們需要的某些事情，但我們希望有機地滿足它，這是根本性的——為此奠定了基石，這就是我們在這些方面取得進展的原因。

But let me sort of make it rather practical and pretty much this. However, whatever we do, the ticket sizes of small and marginal farmers and weaker sections are going to be small. So even if -- and there is a finite capacity and population of this in the universe where we can have a share, even if we were to nibble away more share, that number times the ticket size that we can do will still not meet the regulatory thresholds that are asked for. So I'm being realistic that we have to as much as possible try and comply that through inorganic means.

但讓我把它變得相當實用，差不多就是這樣。然而，無論我們做什麼，小農、邊緣農戶和弱勢族群的收入都會很小。因此，即使宇宙中我們可以分享的容量和數量是有限的，即使我們要蠶食更多的份額，我們可以做的票數乘以這個數字仍然無法滿足所要求的監管門檻。所以我很現實，我們必須盡可能地嘗試透過無機手段來遵守這一點。

At an aggregate level the overall PSL for March '24, is published or to be published, we are a little more than 52% achieved at the -- against the target of 40%. And at the same time, last year, if you see March '23, we were about 45% achievement. Now we have enhanced that be closer to a little more than 52% achievement.

從整體水準來看，24 年 3 月的整體 PSL（已發布或即將發布）與 40% 的目標相比，已實現略高於 52%。同時，去年，如果你看看 23 日 3 月，我們的成就約為 45%。現在我們已經將這一目標提高到接近 52% 以上。

The next question is from the line of Kunal Shah, Citigroup.

下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Kunal Shah。

Yes. Firstly, with respect to the borrowings, there was a rundown. But maybe if you can help both with respect to the borrowings as well as the deposits in terms of the average, so would we have got the benefit of this entire borrowings rundown through the fiscal or this was also more towards the end of the quarter? And similarly, if you can highlight the average LCR, that could also help maybe period-end this 115-odd percent, yes?

是的。首先，就借款而言，出現了縮減。但也許如果你能在平均借款和存款方面提供幫助，那麼我們是否會從整個財政年度的整個借款減少中受益，或者這在季度末也更多？同樣，如果您可以突出顯示平均 LCR，這也可能有助於期末實現 115% 的增長，對嗎？

See whilst, I will have Srini and Bhavin to get in with the actual numbers, but what I remember is, see, there are 2 types of borrowings. There are these normal treasury borrowings, which is in the -- which are market borrowings in the shorter end of curve, which is for day-to-day liquidity management, short-term management, which is -- which sort of moves up and down depending on the short-term flows, the transitory flow that we would be getting into the bank. So the period-end number, which probably is what you're looking at, which is slightly larger of almost about 700 or -- 750.

同時，我會讓斯里尼和巴文輸入實際數字，但我記得的是，有兩種類型的借款。有這些正常的國債借款，它們是曲線較短端的市場借款，用於日常流動性管理、短期管理，這是一種向上移動的借款，下降取決於短期流量，即我們將進入銀行的暫時流量。因此，期末數字可能就是您所看到的，略大一些，大約是 700 或 750。

750, out of which 290 -- INR 29,000 crores is either commercial paper or term borrowings that came from HDFC Limited and the rundown. The rest are treasury activities because towards the end, there is a treasury activity. You can see that there is also cash, huge cash that we were carrying at quarter end. And so treasury manages that size of the balance sheet. But INR 29,000 crores, on an average about INR 15,000 crores is what changed on that line.

750 筆，其中 290 筆（2900 億印度盧比）是來自 HDFC Limited 的商業票據或定期借款以及清單。其餘的都是財務活動，因為到最後，就會有財務活動。你可以看到我們在季度末還持有大量現金。因此，財務部門負責管理資產負債表的規模。但這條線上的變化為 29,00 億印度盧比，平均約為 15,00 億印度盧比。

So Kunal, what -- if you are looking at, this is not the high cost borrowings of erstwhile HDFC Limited, which ran off. In fact, the CPs were a part of that stock, but the cost of the CPs, as you know, is rather smaller as compared to some of the long-term bonds. And since the bank cannot sort of have CPs on its books and this is something that is a part of forbearance, therefore, we have let it go. So this is the high-cost borrowing maturities, which is what probably you're looking at, will start to happen from FY '25 onwards.

所以庫納爾，如果你正在看的話，這不是以前的 HDFC Limited 的高成本借款，該公司已經跑了。事實上，CP 是該股票的一部分，但如您所知，CP 的成本與某些長期債券相比要小得多。由於銀行的帳簿上不可能有CP，而這是寬容的一部分，因此，我們放棄了它。因此，這就是您可能正在關注的高成本借貸期限，將從 25 財年開始發生。

Sure. And second, in terms of lending grades and incremental thread, so have we increased the lending rates across the product segments and just trying to make sure that our incremental spreads are very near to what are the reported one. And as you highlighted in terms of the levers to offset the LDR contraction, would lending rate be one of them? And have we taken some action in the last 2, 3 months on that front?

當然。其次，就貸款等級和增量線索而言，我們提高了各個產品領域的貸款利率，並試圖確保我們的增量利差非常接近報告的利差。正如您在抵消 LDR 收縮的槓桿方面所強調的那樣，貸款利率會是其中之一嗎？過去兩三個月我們在這方面採取了一些行動嗎？

No, you're right. I mean, see the -- we realized that if we have to ration the funding mobilization into -- and deploy a part of it, build liquidity buffers and then the residue is what we need to do, the best way is to increase the threshold yields across customer segments and that's what we have done. But let me also bring in a little bit of reality check out here. Is it something that I can continue to do every quarter? May not be because there is a market which is there, which is real, and there is -- beyond some point in time, we may not even get some of the loans. So I think we have done whatever we had to do until now. Maybe there is some small probabilities of increasing rates is there across segments, but nothing significant.

不，你是對的。我的意思是，我們意識到，如果我們必須將資金動員分配給——並部署其中的一部分，建立流動性緩衝，然後剩下的就是我們需要做的，最好的辦法就是提高門檻跨客戶群的收益，這就是我們所做的。但讓我也在這裡介紹一些現實。這是我每季都可以繼續做的事情嗎？可能不是因為存在一個市場，它是真實存在的，而且存在——在某個時間點之後，我們甚至可能不會得到一些貸款。所以我認為到目前為止我們已經做了我們必須做的事情。也許各個細分市場之間存在一些小機率的成長率，但沒有什麼重大意義。

But you're right, I think as of now, we are at respectable levels. And if we see the -- if you don't see any incremental cost of funds moving up, then we should sort of have stability in the yields as we have at the moment. But if there is changes in the interest rate environment, in the interest rate competitive environment, on the funding side, we may have to reexamine the incremental yields on loans across customer segments as well. And some part of it, which we have -- you have seen, say, in the corporate segment, which is showing a degrowth and some other products as well, is a function where we have elected not to participate because the yields have -- in the market have been much lower than our threshold levels as well.

但你是對的，我認為到目前為止，我們處於可觀的水平。如果我們看到——如果你沒有看到任何增量資金成本上升，那麼我們的收益率應該會像目前一樣保持穩定。但如果利率環境、利率競爭環境、資金方面發生變化，我們可能也必須重新審視跨客戶群的貸款增量收益率。其中的某些部分，我們已經看到，比如說，在企業部門，它顯示出去增長和其他一些產品，是我們選擇不參與的功能，因為收益率已經——市場上的價格也遠低於我們的門檻水平。

So if I'm not too sure whether I've answered what you are looking out for. Yes, yields has been one of the levers to bring down the LDR and we will use it as long as -- and we probably will use it even in future if the situation demands.

因此，如果我不太確定我是否已經回答了您正在尋找的內容。是的，收益率一直是降低貸存比的槓桿之一，我們將使用它，只要情況需要，我們甚至可能會在未來使用它。

Sure. And if I can squeeze in one last question on this ex-gratia provisioning of INR 300-odd crores, what is that related to? Is it...

當然。如果我能就這筆 30 億盧比的特惠撥款提出最後一個問題，這與什麼有關？是嗎...

Yes, yes, I will. I will. I'm happy that you've asked this question. I think we have -- as you know the institution has consummated one of the most complex and largest mergers with erstwhile HDFC Limited. It was a lot of hard work that happened both to the run up to the merger and also at that point in time and subsequent to that on a much larger balance sheet, I think -- and overlaid by a very complex and a very adverse liquidity situation in the system.

是的，是的，我會的。我會。我很高興你問了這個問題。我認為我們已經——如您所知，該機構已經與以前的 HDFC Limited 完成了最複雜、最大的合併之一。我認為，在合併之前以及當時和之後在更大的資產負債表上都發生了很多艱苦的工作，並且被非常複雜和非常不利的流動性所覆蓋。

I think the teams have rallied to adjust to this new norm, the new entity, as I was just mentioning in the opening remark and also they work hard. They have worked hard after being battered from all fronts in this -- at the ground level. I think this is just to ensure that -- and as you know, even in the last couple of years, we've had a heightened attrition as well. It is our endeavor to ensure that the large part of our ground workforce, which is 90% of the total manpower is motivated, and this is a way of trying to say thank you to them. And this is not recurring. This is going to be a onetime ex-gratia that we have provided for. And why not, we had a one-off gain. And I thought this is a way to motivate the young workforce and on a onetime basis. So that's the objective.

我認為團隊已經團結起來適應這種新規範、新實體，正如我在開場白中提到的那樣，而且他們也很努力。在遭受來自各方面的打擊之後，他們在地面上努力工作。我認為這只是為了確保——正如你所知，即使在過去的幾年裡，我們的人員流失率也有所增加。我們努力確保大部分地面員工（佔總人力的 90%）受到激勵，這是向他們表示感謝的一種方式。而且這種情況不會重複出現。這將是我們提供的一次性特惠。為什麼不呢，我們獲得了一次性收益。我認為這是一次性激勵年輕勞動力的一種方式。這就是目標。

The next question is from the line of Chintan Joshi from Autonomous Research.

下一個問題來自 Autonomous Research 的 Chintan Joshi。

Can I ask a big picture question and then a follow-up on this lending rate point that we just discussed. HDFC has had a fantastic track record over the last 2 decades of growing faster than most of the other private sector banks, increasing market share like no one else in the system. You are at pretty good levels, 11% plus on deposits...

我可以問一個大局問題，然後是我們剛剛討論的貸款利率點的後續問題嗎？ HDFC 在過去 20 年中擁有出色的業績記錄，其成長速度超過大多數其他私營部門銀行，其市場份額的增加是系統中獨一無二的。你的水平相當不錯，存款還有11%以上......

Sorry to interrupt. Mr. Joshi, may I request you to use your handset, sir. Your audio is slightly muffled.

抱歉打擾。喬許先生，先生，我可以請您使用您的手機嗎？你的聲音有點低沉。

Yes, sure. Yes, so I don't know if audible -- better now. But you have a fantastic track record over the last 2 decades and the market shares have built up as a result. From here, if you think about the next decade, do you still think HDFC is a bank that can outgrow the private sector? Or is it now more about playing on scale and getting the scale benefits rather than trying to grow faster than the rest of the sector? That was the first one, and I have a follow-up on the lending rates.

是的，當然。是的，所以我不知道是否能聽到——現在好多了。但您在過去 20 年中擁有出色的業績記錄，市場份額也因此不斷增加。從這裡開始，如果您考慮下一個十年，您是否仍然認為 HDFC 是一家能夠超越私營部門的銀行？或者現在更多的是擴大規模並獲得規模效益，而不是試圖比該行業的其他公司更快成長？這是第一個，我有關於貸款利率的後續行動。

See, yes, as I mentioned in the opening remark, Chintan, we have a great distribution. We have our complete bouquet of products and services. So we have the energy to offer and gain this kind of -- and we have been acquiring customers with the spread and also with the hunger. And that's one of the reasons why we have been as long as competition is rational, as long as the price points are reasonable, I think we are happy to participate and that's the period that will reflect the gain of market share. Now since you're talking -- asking for a long-term perspective, as I mentioned even in the previous question, we strongly believe that competition, and you go by the past track record also apart from pockets of exuberance, which probably will not last too long.

看，是的，正如我在開場白中提到的，Chintan，我們有一個很棒的發行版。我們擁有完整的產品和服務。因此，我們有精力提供和獲得這種服務，並且我們一直在透過傳播和飢餓來獲取客戶。這就是為什麼我們一直以來只要競爭是理性的，只要價格點合理，我認為我們很樂意參與，這就是反映市佔率增益的時期。現在，既然你在談論——尋求長遠的眼光，正如我在上一個問題中提到的那樣，我們堅信競爭，並且除了一些繁榮之外，你還遵循過去的記錄，這可能不會持續太久。

And assuming the competitive intensity continues to be the same, as long as the pricing is rational, I think we have all the elements to ensure that we continue to gain market share or nibble market share. Now you used the word private sector banks. I'm not talking about just private sector, I'm talking about nibble away share from the banking system at large because there are many players out there. There are some who probably may be offering similar kinds of products and services, some may not be. So obviously, wherever there is a gap in product and service offering is where our strength comes in. But I can assure you that the focus that we have been getting in, in terms of more, which is a lot more hard work than shortcuts that one would normally take in terms of, as I mentioned in the previous question, the speed of reaction, speed of response.

假設競爭強度持續保持不變，只要定價合理，我認為我們擁有確保我們繼續獲得市場份額或蠶食市場份額的所有要素。現在您使用了私部門銀行這個詞。我說的不僅僅是私營部門，我說的是蠶食整個銀行體系的份額，因為那裡有很多參與者。有些人可能會提供類似的產品和服務，有些人可能不會。顯然，只要產品和服務提供上存在差距，哪裡就有我們的優勢。到的，人們通常會用反應速度、反應速度來衡量。

Ensuring that we have a priority in terms of service-first culture, all that is necessarily going to benefit in the medium to long term because this is what the customer wants, and this is exactly what we want to do. We want to move away or we want to ensure that this is the core focus and not sort of a push-based mechanism at all. So in the 10 years, I think, if you see, currently, I'm not too -- I don't have the numbers, but I think our market share on deposits would be somewhere between 10% and 11%. Okay, maybe slightly around that. Okay, slightly about 11%. So we may -- you may think that we are a large bank. At 10%, we are very small, actually. So the largest bank in the country is having a market share of almost about 20-plus percentage. So the gap is very large. There's a huge amount of opportunity.

確保我們在服務第一文化方面擁有優先權，所有這些都必然會在中長期內受益，因為這是客戶想要的，這也正是我們想要做的。我們想要離開，或者我們想要確保這是核心焦點，而不是基於推播的機制。所以，我認為，如果你看，目前，我不太確定，我沒有數字，但我認為我們的存款市佔率將在 10% 到 11% 之間。好吧，也許稍微差不多。好吧，大概是 11% 左右。所以我們可能——你可能認為我們是一家大銀行。事實上，我們佔 10%，規模很小。因此，該國最大的銀行擁有幾乎 20% 以上的市場份額。所以差距是非常大的。有大量的機會。

And so as long as we stay focused, keep our heads down and just focus on our long-term strategic objectives of just customer in mind, frankly, we don't see any reason why we should not continue the way we have done in the past in terms of gaining incremental market share. As I said, all this is -- there will be short-term period, as we have seen in first quarter, as we have seen in the fourth quarter where there would be some amount of irrational pricing. In such periods of time, we may not grow, we may elect or choose to grow slow.

因此，只要我們保持專注，保持低調，專注於我們的長期戰略目標，即只考慮客戶，坦率地說，我們沒有任何理由不繼續我們在過去在獲得增量市場份額方面。正如我所說，所有這一切都會有一個短期時期，正如我們在第一季和第四季所看到的那樣，將會出現一定程度的非理性定價。在這樣的時期，我們可能不會成長，我們可能會選擇或選擇緩慢成長。

And these are things that you will have to factor in and not sort of question as to what happened. So -- but in the medium to long term on a longer trajectory, absolutely, this is going to be our core focus and everything else revolves around this core strategy. So if that is going to be the focus, then I -- here, this outlook, I'm happy to even sort of provide that over the next 10-year period. Will we continue to gain share? Absolutely.

這些是你必須考慮的事情，而不是對發生了什麼的問題。所以，但從中長期來看，在更長的軌跡上，這絕對將是我們的核心焦點，其他一切都圍繞著這個核心策略。因此，如果這將成為焦點，那麼我——這裡，這個展望，我甚至很高興在未來 10 年期間提供這一點。我們會繼續獲得份額嗎？絕對地。

And that leads nicely into the second one, which is, on the competitive dynamic, every bank that we've listened to in the last 2, 3 quarters has been complaining about deposit competition about cost of funds, irrational pricing. And HDFC took the step of increasing the threshold lending rates. When that happened, what kind of reaction did you see from your competitors? Did you see them following you to a degree in raising the lending rates? Or you just kind of outright lost some of the lending opportunities? What was the competitive outcome of that?

這很好地引出了第二個問題，在競爭動態方面，我們在過去兩三個季度中聽到的每家銀行都在抱怨資金成本和不合理定價方面的存款競爭。 HDFC 採取了提高貸款利率門檻的措施。當這種情況發生時，您的競爭對手有何反應？您是否看到他們在一定程度上跟隨您提高了貸款利率？或者您只是徹底失去了一些貸款機會？其競爭結果為何？

So Chintan, good question. The reality is that in the shorter period, there would be multiple objectives of each of the banks, which would determine whether they follow or not follow. So as we have seen practically, there were banks, which were happy to follow us and there were banks which did not follow us. Now obviously, these compulsions are there and these compulsions would play out to know whether this is going to be sustainable or not only in the medium to long term. So since you asked the question specifically as to what were the reactions, I'm telling you there were equal amount of people who sort of followed us in terms of raising some of the rates because I guess they were all waiting for the leader to take the initiative and there were others who did not do so as well, which is reflected in some of the segments degrowing.

Chintan，好問題。現實情況是，在較短的時間內，每家銀行都會有多個目標，這將決定它們是否遵循。正如我們實際上所看到的，有些銀行很樂意跟隨我們，有些銀行則不跟隨我們。現在顯然，這些強迫性因素已經存在，而這些強迫性因素將會發揮作用，以了解這種情況是否僅在中長期內可持續。因此，既然您具體詢問了反應是什麼，我告訴您，有同等數量的人在提高一些利率方面跟隨我們，因為我猜他們都在等待領導人採取行動。 ，這反映在一些細分市場的退化。

If the short-term gyration kind of play out, if you're consistently using this higher threshold lending prices, that might be encouraging the system to kind of follow suit or is that being too optimistic?

如果出現短期波動，如果您一直使用這種更高的貸款價格門檻，這可能會鼓勵系統效仿，或者這是否過於樂觀？

Yes, absolutely, Chintan. Completely agree. This is what I believe if -- should be there. And I think time will tell us. Time will play out -- we'll have to wait and watch how this plays out.

是的，絕對是，金坦。完全同意。這就是我認為應該存在的。我認為時間會告訴我們。時間會結束——我們必須等待，看看事情會如何發展。

I would add one thing. If you look at even the AA or the AAA names if you see, the bond spreads in the market, the movement of bond spreads, even this quarter it's been up and if you look at it over a period of 6 months or 9 months, the bond spreads did go up. But the loan spreads are lagging, right, and we do see some of the competition pricing far lower than the cost of deposits itself. So that's in terms of how we have. We've been rational to be following this, but you can compare the bond spreads and see how they are going up and not the loan spreads.

我想補充一件事。如果你看看 AA 或 AAA 的名字，如果你看到市場上的債券利差，債券利差的變動，即使這個季度它也在上漲，如果你看一下 6 個月或 9 個月的時間段，債券利差確實上升了。但貸款利差是滯後的，對吧，我們確實看到一些競爭定價遠低於存款本身的成本。這就是我們的情況。我們一直理性地關注這一點，但你可以比較債券利差，看看它們是如何上升的，而不是貸款利差。

The next question is from the line of Rahul Jain from Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的 Rahul Jain。

Just wanted to put across some thoughts and would be painting some scenarios if I may. What I've heard you, Sashi, so far speak, it appears to me is that, we are -- we seem to be in a balance sheet fixing mode and we would sort of use all the possible levers to bring the LDR down? And in that context, what you talked about margins versus LDR in response to previous questions. So I want to check with you, we saw 4 basis point of margin expansion with quarter basis in your presentation. And that also corresponded into the LDR drop. If we see scope for further margin expansion, do we get to a scenario where the LDR drops could be even more meaningful as we move forward, of course, subject to wherever there is a scope given that there are contractual obligations in place? So that's question number one.

只是想表達一些想法，如果可以的話，我會畫一些場景。 Sashi，到目前為止，我聽到你所說的是，我們似乎處於資產負債表修復模式，我們會使用所有可能的槓桿來壓低 LDR？在這種情況下，您在回答先前的問題時談到了利潤率與 LDR 的關係。因此，我想與您核實一下，我們在您的簡報中看到了以季度為基礎的 4 個基點的利潤率擴張。這也與 LDR 下降相對應。如果我們看到利潤率進一步擴大的空間，那麼隨著我們的前進，我們是否會遇到這樣一種情況：LDR 的下降可能會更有意義，當然，前提是有合約義務，有一定的範圍嗎？這是第一個問題。

Okay. Okay, let me answer the question number one. See, as I said, we are not working or are -- I'm not sort of keeping a certain anchor or a margin and working out a strategy. This is -- that is never -- as I probably said in the opening remarks, we just want to have one anchor because a margin, and Rahul, you probably know this much better, is a function of the demand from each of the customer segment, it's a function of the pricing behavior in each of the segments and the competition at that point in time. Three, it's a function of the business mix. And so I don't want to have that as an anchor at all. But having said that, we are very clear that we're not going to chase growth for the sake of growth. In the past, there have been some periods of customer engagement and customer commitments.

好的。好吧，我來回答第一個問題。你看，正如我所說，我們沒有在工作，或者正在——我不是在保持一定的錨點或利潤並製定策略。這是——那永遠不是——正如我在開場白中可能所說的那樣，我們只想有一個錨，因為利潤，而拉胡爾，你可能更清楚這一點，是每個客戶需求的函數細分市場，它是每個細分市場的定價行為以及當時競爭的函數。第三，它是業務組合的函數。所以我根本不想把它當作錨點。但話雖如此，我們非常清楚，我們不會為了成長而追求成長。過去，存在過一些客戶參與和客戶承諾的時期。

But now that we have absolute control on the ship post the merger, we are very clear that we'll deploy basis what we mobilize. So the -- I believe, and as I mentioned a few minutes ago that from here on, I believe the margin, even if it's stable is something that will be delighted because we want to ensure the cost of incremental deposits continues to be range bound and then whatever thresholds we have laid out a little bit of tweaking, we will ensure that the margins either remain stable. And the business mix is what will then determine the margin movement also. Because if I continue to have more higher proportion of retail in CRB, all things remaining same, it will have a positive impact on the margin. So that's not something that we are focusing.

但現在我們在合併後對這艘船擁有絕對控制權，我們非常清楚我們將根據我們的動員情況進行部署。因此，我相信，正如我幾分鐘前提到的，從現在開始，我相信保證金即使是穩定的也是令人高興的，因為我們希望確保增量存款的成本繼續在一定範圍內然後，無論我們設定的閾值如何進行一點調整，我們都將確保利潤率保持穩定。業務組合也將決定利潤率變動。因為如果我繼續在 CRB 中擁有更高比例的零售，一切都保持不變，這將對利潤率產生積極影響。所以這不是我們關注的重點。

We want to -- as I said, we want to anchor our thought process in terms of seeing stability of metrics with a positive bias moving slowly and surely over the next 2 to 3 years. So I'm not sort of giving any outlook on that, but I'm very clear that I want to maintain stability. We are not going down the risk ladder to oust as well and neither are we going to go down the price ladder anymore. So we have to sort of drop off some volumes, so be it, okay. Profitability is extremely important. It has to make economic sense, otherwise no. All things remaining, the fact that now we have a perfect control or we have the control on our assets and liability movements, the margin accretion should be a function of how we substitute our bonds that come up for maturity repeat of time with deposits.

正如我所說，我們希望將我們的思考過程固定在看到具有積極偏見的指標的穩定性在未來 2 到 3 年內緩慢而穩定地變化。所以我不會對此給出任何展望，但我很清楚我想保持穩定。我們不會再沿著風險階梯往下走，也不會再沿著價格階梯往下走。所以我們必須放棄一些卷，就這樣吧，好吧。盈利能力極為重要。它必須具有經濟意義，否則就沒有經濟意義。剩下的一切，事實上，現在我們擁有完美的控制權，或者說我們可以控制我們的資產和負債變動，保證金的增加應該取決於我們如何用存款取代到期重複的債券。

And that is where you will start to see that kind of momentum. But you have to be patient because these are things that will happen only on defined time lines. It's not something that I can call. So it has to be a gradual part. In the meantime, if the organization grows, builds stability on its metrics including the core ROA and earnings at over a 2- to 3-year period, has a positive trajectory, I think, that's a big positive for us because when in the medium-to-long term, when you have subsequently and finally exhausted the high-cost bonds, trust me, we would have not just liquidity, we will have the ability to unleash growth with profitability coming back to the premerger levels as well on a core basis.

這就是你將開始看到這種勢頭的地方。但你必須要有耐心，因為這些事情只會在規定的時間內發生。這不是我可以稱之為的東西。所以它必須是漸進的部分。同時，如果組織不斷發展，在2 至3 年內建立其指標（包括核心ROA 和收益）的穩定性，並具有積極的軌跡，我認為這對我們來說是一個很大的積極因素，因為當處於中期時-從長期來看，當你最終耗盡高成本債券時，相信我，我們不僅擁有流動性，我們還將有能力釋放增長，盈利能力也回到合併前的水平基礎。

CASA mix. CASA mix is also one of the important element in this and that's not what we can drive. It's a customer propensity and customer preference in terms of what the mix of between CASA and the TD they need, and we are balanced in offering.

卡薩混合。 CASA 組合也是其中的重要元素之一，但這不是我們可以推動的。這是客戶的傾向和偏好，即他們需要的 CASA 和 TD 的組合，而我們在提供方面是平衡的。

In a high interest rate scenario, Rahul, normally, you probably go back in time, the CASA ratios have been a little tepid. And this is exactly what we have been seeing because incrementally, we are seeing in the system as well people are spending, people are moving monies into other alternative instruments. So effectively, the household savings themselves have also started to come down. So these are structural changes that are happening. But having said that, these are things that is there at a system level. We can't be cribbing. I think we have enough opportunity to incrementally gain share even on CASA and that's our endeavor. And that's something that you have to look at it on a longer-term basis.

在高利率的情況下，拉胡爾，通常情況下，你可能會回到過去，CASA 比率有點不溫不火。這正是我們所看到的，因為我們在系統中逐漸看到人們在消費，人們正在將資金轉移到其他替代工具。實際上，家庭儲蓄本身也開始下降。所以這些都是正在發生的結構性改變。但話雖如此，這些都是系統層級的東西。我們不能抄襲。我認為我們有足夠的機會逐步獲得份額，甚至在 CASA 上也是如此，這就是我們的努力。這是你必須從更長遠的角度來看待的事情。

Very helpful. The other question was on the cost of deposits and deposit mobilization, given that the system is still pretty much operating in a tight liquidity environment, the rates are still pretty much elevated. You talked about pressure on household savings, the alternatives, is it the interest rate sensitive, alternatives are also very high. We have a kind of -- it seems that the cost of deposits has stabilized for us. It was down, as per presentation, marginally in this quarter. So does it mean that we will not be seeing an increase now, we've kind of stabilized on that? And if market -- if the competition is bidding up for deposits, we might choose to let go off like the way we did it in the third quarter. And therefore, the cost of deposit is something that you have control over? Or how would you react to it?

很有幫助。另一個問題是關於存款和存款動員的成本，鑑於該系統仍然在流動性緊張的環境下運行，利率仍然相當高。你談到家庭儲蓄的壓力，替代方案，是否利率敏感，替代方案也很高。我們的存款成本似乎已經穩定下來。根據演示，本季度略有下降。那麼這是否意味著我們現在不會看到成長，我們已經穩定下來了？如果市場競爭加劇，我們可能會像第三季一樣選擇放手。那麼存款成本是你可以控制的嗎？或者你對此有何反應？

Great question. If there is irrational competition, absolutely, and we will not be apologetic. As I said, while most of you did not like what we did in quarter 3, the reality was there was sort of heightened war on deposits and which we elected not to chase. But having said that, if you've seen over the last 12 months, I think, there has been stability in the rates that we offer across tenors in our retail deposits whether it's the granular retail deposits or some higher ticket sizes as well.

很好的問題。如果存在非理性競爭，那是絕對的，我們不會道歉。正如我所說，雖然你們中的大多數人不喜歡我們在第三季所做的事情，但現實是存款戰爭加劇，我們選擇不去追趕。但話雖如此，如果您看到過去 12 個月的情況，我認為我們在零售存款的各個期限內提供的利率一直保持穩定，無論是細粒度的零售存款還是一些較高的票據規模。

We have not changed and it's pretty much reflected in the stability in the cost of deposits. But if there are changes because you never know, the life is very uncertain. What's happening in the Middle East is also extremely uncertain. How that sort of impacts global rate scenarios and hence has a ripple effect on India is something that we have to watch. And if there is continued hawkish stance on the monetary policy and we continue to see rates elevated at the system level and probably that also leads to a little bit of tightening on the liquidity. These are aspects that we really would not have a handle on. And if all the other large competitive banks were to raise rates, we cannot be an outlier.

我們沒有改變，這在很大程度上反映在存款成本的穩定性上。但如果因為你永遠不知道而發生變化，那麼生活就非常不確定。中東正在發生的事情也極度不確定。這將如何影響全球利率情景，從而對印度產生連鎖反應，這是我們必須關注的。如果貨幣政策繼續保持鷹派立場，並且我們繼續看到系統層面利率上升，這可能也會導致流動性略微收緊。這些是我們確實無法處理的方面。如果所有其他大型競爭性銀行都提高利率，我們就不能成為例外。

We have to maybe match to that. But it doesn't mean that beyond that, I mean, where we will not chase is beyond the card rates. If at all even we chase then, of course, we will have to chase even the threshold yields on our loans as well. But beyond the card rates, even if we were to change the rate, would we be chasing big base deposits? Absolutely no. There is a certain proportion we will patronize because our customer segment is across multiple segments. It ranges from individuals to corporates, and there is a certain proportion that we have always patronized. I think largely about 84%, 85% is retail and non-retail is about 15% to 16%. As long as we maintain this balance, I think we are all right. But do we go to extra mile to go for volatile bid space transitory flows? Not really.

我們也許必須與之配對。但這並不意味著除此之外，我的意思是，我們不會追逐超出卡片費率的地方。當然，如果我們真的要追逐的話，我們也必須追逐貸款的門檻收益率。但除了卡片利率之外，即使我們改變利率，我們還會追求大額基礎存款嗎？絕對沒有。我們會光顧一定比例的客戶，因為我們的客戶群是跨多個細分市場的。範圍從個人到企業，都有一定比例是我們一直光顧的。我認為主要是 84%，其中 85% 是零售，非零售大約是 15% 到 16%。只要我們保持這種平衡，我認為我們就沒有問題。但我們是否要付出額外的努力來爭取波動性的投標空間短暫流動？並不真地。

Just one last question I would like to squeeze in. With regards to the provisioning that we have done in this quarter to absorb and to offset the gain through Credila stake sale, news reports also talked about you looking to be maybe sell stake in HDB Financial Services. So just wanted to understand the choice of provisions that you've made here. Floating provision, which is generally very hard to dip into without RBI approval. So next year, again, the core credit cost doesn't come down, it remains in that band, so shareholders don't get to benefit from these stake sales even now or in the future. And then the merger happened, there was an impact on the book value because of these investments. So what's the thinking that the management team is having here? Why floating and why not contingent provisions that can be used in the future?

我想插話的最後一個問題。所以只是想了解您在這裡所做的規定的選擇。浮動準備金，如果沒有印度央行的批准，通常很難動用。因此，明年核心信貸成本仍然不會下降，仍處於該範圍內，因此即使現在或將來，股東也無法從這些股權出售中受益。然後合併發生了，這些投資對帳面價值產生了影響。那麼管理團隊的想法是什麼呢？為什麼是浮動的，為什麼不是將來可以使用的或有準備金？

Very happy that you asked this because that's exactly what we wanted to convey. Floating provision is actually an account-specific provision, which is made in good times. It does not reflect anything that's adverse in the portfolio or in our early indicators at all. We have a pristine asset quality. Our early indicators across segments are even better and that is pretty much what we had anticipated. So unlike in a contingent provision, which is precautionary in nature against certain standard exposures, that may possible because of certain potential contingent events could slip into the delinquent buckets in said scenarios, that is the reason why we provide contingent. But here, we don't have any reason to do that is contingent.

很高興您提出這個問題，因為這正是我們想要傳達的訊息。浮動準備金實際上是針對特定帳戶的準備金，是在經濟繁榮時期制定的。它根本沒有反映投資組合或我們早期指標中的任何不利因素。我們擁有原始的資產品質。我們各個細分市場的早期指標甚至更好，幾乎符合我們的預期。因此，與或有準備金不同，或有準備金本質上是針對某些標準風險的預防措施，但由於某些潛在的或有事件可能會在上述情況下滑入拖欠範圍，這可能是我們提供或有準備金的原因。但在這裡，我們沒有任何理由這樣做是偶然的。

We've put in a floating. We are very much cognizant of the fact that we have to take prior approval of RBI, which means -- which reflects the fact that the resiliency of our balance sheet and our credit portfolio, which means that if the organization has taken the courage to put it in floating, it all means that things are pretty good and that is what we want to convey.

我們已經放了一個漂浮物。我們非常清楚，我們必須事先獲得印度儲備銀行的批准，這意味著——這反映了我們資產負債表和信貸投資組合的彈性這一事實，這意味著如果該組織有勇氣它在漂浮，這一切都意味著一切都很好，這就是我們想要傳達的。

A small follow-on. Can this be used in an event of ECL implementation?

一個小的後續。這可以在 ECL 實施的情況下使用嗎？

No. See, the point is, I think the bank has bank's pricing, the bank's financials are such that it prices for the expected credit loss. The contingent is something that is very specific on certain events or certain potential events that may happen or may not happen, so that's contingent event. Floating is something that you will dip in when there are some adverse unanticipated events in the future. You don't do it because you are anticipating anything, but you do it because you want to bring in resiliency and you are actually trying to say that in good times, why do you want to? There's, of course, lot debate and literature, whether why don't you take it straight to profit. I'm sure a lot people in the call who probably would be thinking, better to -- I would have loved just going into the book straight.

不。偶然事件是非常具體的某些事件或某些可能發生或可能不發生的潛在事件，所以這就是偶然事件。浮動是當未來出現一些不利的意外事件時你會陷入的東西。你這樣做不是因為你期待任何事情，而是因為你想帶來彈性，而且你實際上是想在好的時候說，你為什麼要這樣做？當然，有很多爭論和文獻，無論你為什麼不直接從中獲利。我確信電話中的許多人可能會想，最好是──我希望直接進入這本書。

In fact, you should say, you should sort of probably come out and I'm telling you that you can consider this as a deemed book, a deemed attrition to book. But having said that, I believe that this is not something that we will invoke for a long time to come. This is something an investment for the future. It is only getting the balance sheet stronger, so that you are protected from any unanticipated movement, say, 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. And we are not going to be apologetic of doing so. But is it something that we'll be doing every time we have a one-off? Sorry, that's not what I'm trying to say. This is something that we have taken a call now and we will evaluate periodically as and when any further instances happen in the future.

事實上，你應該說，你可能應該出來，我告訴你，你可以將這視為一本被視為的書，一本被視為消耗的書。但話雖如此，我相信這不是我們在未來很長一段時間內會引用的東西。這是對未來的投資。它只會讓資產負債表變得更強大，這樣你就可以免受任何意外變動的影響，例如 5、10、15、20 年後。我們不會為此感到抱歉。但這是我們每次遇到一次性事件時都會做的事情嗎？抱歉，我想說的不是這個。這是我們現在已經接到的電話，我們將在將來發生任何進一步的情況時定期進行評估。

And for now, this qualifies for Tier 2 capital within regulatory limits, and so it is part of the Tier 2 capital and total capital as a floating position.

目前，這符合監管限制內的二級資本要求，因此它是二級資本和總資本的一部分，作為浮動頭寸。

And it sort of now is about 0.5% of the total loan book, as we speak?

正如我們所說，現在大約佔貸款總額的 0.5%？

Yes, the floating position is about 50 basis points. The contingent position is about 59 basis points, combined about 109 basis points, within reasonable limits of...

是的，浮動部位約為50個基點。或有部位約 59 個基點，合計約 109 個基點，在合理範圍內...

Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, the last question is from the line of Santanu Chakrabarti from BNP Paribas.

女士們、先生們，由於時間有限，最後一個問題來自法國巴黎銀行的 Santanu Chakrabarti。

First off, congratulations on a strong show, especially on the retail deposit front. I have 2 questions. And parts of this discussion has been reported before. But I just wanted to clarify your thinking on the incremental loan growth dynamic, just want to put to get any uncertainties about this?

首先，恭喜您的強勁表現，尤其是在零售存款方面。我有 2 個問題。之前已經報道該討論的部分內容。但我只是想澄清您對增量貸款成長動態的看法，只是想弄清楚這方面是否存在任何不確定性？

Absolutely. Let me do this. I mean, you're talking about the volume...

絕對地。讓我來做這個。我的意思是，你說的是音量...

Just a moment, I'm saying that if, for example, corporate loans rising was a little better this quarter, it was 15 basis points better on the 5% that you've let go. Would it have changed your appetite? Or if your credit strategy teetered really to LDR? I just want to get clarity on this. At the margin, it's pricing the primary driver of whether you do that extra 3%, 4%? Or is LDR the primary consideration? I have another question about the CRB business, but if you continue with this, then we can move on.

等一下，我想說的是，例如，如果本季企業貸款成長稍好一些，那麼它比您放棄的 5% 好 15 個基點。它會改變你的食慾嗎？或者，如果您的信貸策略真的搖搖欲墜，到了 LDR 的地步？我只是想弄清楚這一點。在邊際上，它是定價的主要驅動因素，決定你是否額外支付 3%、4%？還是LDR是首要考慮的？我還有一個關於 CRB 業務的問題，但如果你繼續問下去，那麼我們就可以繼續。

Santanu, for each of the segment, we have a risk-based pricing model. And if within the risk-based pricing model, if any business comes in, that is how the allocation of capital and liquidity happens. And so it's very theoretical to say, if corporate was at 15 basis points higher, it will depend again on which corporate customer, which segment, which -- whether it's an existing or a new customer and a variety of things, which is taken into consideration before an allocation of liquidity or capital happens. So it's not an LD or CD ratio driven to say we're going to reduce here or reduce there. Obviously, if I have a lower liquidity, then where I'm going to get a higher risk reward is what the allocation will happen. But it is not purely pricing or margin, as you have mentioned.

Santanu，對於每個細分市場，我們都有一個基於風險的定價模型。如果在基於風險的定價模型中，如果有任何業務進來，資本和流動性的分配就是這樣發生的。因此，非常理論上地說，如果企業的利率高出15 個基點，這將再次取決於哪個企業客戶、哪個細分市場、哪個客戶——無論是現有客戶還是新客戶以及各種因素，這些都會被納入考慮範圍。因此，這並不是說我們要減少這裡或那裡減少的 LD 或 CD 比率。顯然，如果我的流動性較低，那麼我將獲得較高風險回報的地方就是分配的情況。但正如您所提到的，這不僅僅是定價或利潤。

Right, right. So that's exactly what I wanted to get clarified because it's getting kind of interpreted, I guess, among some quarters that it's primarily LDR-driven, right? So just wanted to get clarity on deposit part.

是的是的。這正是我想要澄清的，因為我想，在某些方面，它主要是由 LDR 驅動的，對嗎？所以只是想弄清楚存款部分。

My second question relates to the CRB business. Now obviously, it seems to be going pretty well in terms of growth. And of course, again, it's key to your PSL compliance and, of course, down the line margin defense and expansion hopefully. So what I really appreciate is, if you could provide some texture on strategic products. I mean, what's happening maybe some geographical sense, maybe some product sense, so that we can get a little more granular sense of where the growth is coming from? And what are you hopeful about, what are you watching out for?

我的第二個問題涉及CRB業務。現在顯然，它在成長方面似乎進展順利。當然，這也是 PSL 合規性的關鍵，當然也是確保利潤率和擴張的關鍵。所以我真正感激的是，如果你能為戰略產品提供一些質感。我的意思是，正在發生的事情可能是一些地理意義上的，也許是一些產品意義上的，這樣我們就可以更細緻地了解成長來自哪裡？你有什麼希望，你在關注什麼？

So on the geographic sense, we need to get back to you because I don't have off hand or the team probably, at this juncture, in this call, may not have the details of geography, but we can probably sort of mail that to you separately or put it up in the domain later. But if you really look at the focus in CRB, we're very clear that considering the fact that this is one of the most -- it's one of the significant feeders for our priority sector requirements. The growth has come in from the pricing sector segment such as the micro enterprises, such as the small and marginal farmers and also in terms of the -- or the agri -- other than other agri customer segments and the weaker section, which is a sustainable livelihood initiative segments as well.

因此，在地理意義上，我們需要回复您，因為我沒有臨時手頭，或者團隊可能在這個時刻，在這次電話會議中，可能沒有地理的詳細信息，但我們可能可以通過郵件來說明單獨給您或稍後將其放入域中。但如果你真正專注於 CRB 的焦點，我們就非常清楚，考慮到這是最重要的焦點之一，它是滿足我們優先產業需求的重要來源之一。成長來自定價部門，例如微型企業、小農戶和邊緣農戶，以及除其他農業客戶群和弱勢群體之外的農業領域。

Business Bank, there are other medium enterprises and large ticket smaller enterprises, which have seen tepid growth, which is in line with what we have been focusing. I mean we need to ensure, as I said, we stepped up our threshold levels, the wheels, last quarter, and we are happy to sort of see growth coming in only from the segments that I mentioned, if we have to even pay down some of the larger ticket sizes, even in the CRB segment, so be it. So the geography spread, we will come back to you later, but this is a broad composition of segments which has seen healthy growth during this particular quarter.

商業銀行，還有其他中型企業和大額小型企業，成長不溫不火，這符合我們一直關注的重點。我的意思是，正如我所說，我們需要確保我們在上個季度提高了門檻水平，而且我們很高興看到增長僅來自我提到的細分市場，如果我們甚至必須付錢的話一些較大的機票尺寸，即使在CRB 航段，也是如此。因此，地理分佈廣泛，我們稍後再回覆您，但這是一個廣泛的細分市場組成，在這個特定季度中實現了健康成長。

I'll add so that you can put that to rest. We did expand our small and medium enterprise business to 715 districts across the country. We also mentioned about the 225,000 villages for agriculture and allied product distribution. And so what we saw is that the overall asset growth is a reflection of the efforts of each business group to accelerate new customer acquisition, particularly in the deeper geography, where the competition is less, and we can get at the right price point that we like and at the quality that we like as opposed to only playing around with the metro and urban area, where the competition could be high from the price point of view. We would like the quality, but the price could be detrimental to what we like. And so this balanced approach of expanding to various geographies is what has played out in terms of getting this origination.

我會補充一下，以便您可以放心。我們確實把中小企業業務拓展到了全國715個區。我們也提到了 225,000 個用於農業和相關產品分銷的村莊。因此，我們看到的是，整體資產成長反映了每個業務集團為加速新客戶獲取而付出的努力，特別是在競爭較少的更深層次的地區，我們可以在合適的價格點獲得我們想要的產品。我們想要質量，但價格可能不利於我們的喜好。因此，這種向不同地區擴張的平衡方法就是在獲得這個起源方面所發揮的作用。

And mind you, just to add or conclude to what Srini has just mentioned, we are very clear, our underwriting policies are very consistent. So even getting into deeper geography is at our -- within our policy parameters. We are -- we don't go down to the risk ladder just because we are in deeper geographies as well.

請注意，只是對斯里尼剛才提到的內容進行補充或總結，我們非常清楚，我們的承保政策非常一致。因此，即使進入更深入的地理範圍，也是在我們的政策範圍內。我們不會因為我們處於更深的地理位置而降低風險階梯。

Perfect. If I might crave your indulgence with a small follow-up. So obviously, you've held back on your branch expansion a little bit, does that impact the plans for CRB in any way in the next 2, 3 years longer time line...

完美的。如果我希望你能放縱我的後續行動。顯然，您稍微推遲了分支機構的擴張，這是否會以任何方式影響 CRB 在未來 2、3 年更長時間內的計劃…

My dear friend, I know all of you are taunting me because I may have in my exuberance given my vision and you all have taken that guidance saying that I would like to achieve. I do not know somewhere, some number, I may have stated in the past or some other at the time of the merger, announcing the merger. While that is the vision, it doesn't mean that people are implementing, there is a certain practical reality. It's not -- I mean, as I mentioned, I am -- we are not going to cringe on branch expansion just because it's going to increase my cost or increase my cost to earnings because these are strategic imperatives and we are not going to cringe on some of these strategic expenditure, whether it's distribution, whether it's technology, whether it's appropriate levels of people as well.

我親愛的朋友，我知道你們所有人都在嘲笑我，因為我可能在我的熱情中實現了我的願景，而你們所有人都接受了我想要實現的指導。我不知道在某個地方、某個數字，我可能在過去或在合併時宣布過合併時說過。雖然這是願景，但這並不意味著人們正在實施，而是有一定的實際現實。這不是——我的意思是，正如我所提到的——我們不會僅僅因為分支機構擴張會增加我的成本或增加我的盈利成本而畏縮，因為這些是戰略需要，我們不會畏縮在其中在一些策略支出上，無論是分配，是否是技術，是否是適當的人員水準。

But having said that, the quantum of branches that we can open depends on multiple factors. One of them being the bandwidth in terms of what we can set up in terms of finding the right place, the right location, having the commensurate meeting regulatory requirements in terms of what we can add, in terms of the unbanked Google centers and also the opportunities in terms of finding the right manpower and a lot of other aspects and factors as well. So there are times where we have had the energy to do much more, which we demonstrated, say, maybe, I think, last year.

但話雖如此，我們可以打開的分支數量取決於多種因素。其中之一是我們可以在尋找正確的地方、正確的位置方面設置的頻寬，在我們可以添加的內容方面滿足相應的監管要求，在沒有銀行帳戶的谷歌中心以及尋找合適的人力資源以及許多其他方面和因素方面的機會。因此，有時我們有精力做更多的事情，我想，也許去年我們就證明了這一點。

Last year, 1,481.

去年為 1,481。

1,481. This year, it's somewhere close...

1,481。今年，它就在附近......

970.

970.

Closer to 1,000. We did about -- prior to that about somewhere about 700. So it varies, but I think the pace of branch expansion is -- has gone up maybe in the recent past as against what we did. Yes, I mean I realized that whilst the endeavor is to increase and step up the distribution because ultimately, it doesn't mean that the mobilization is just a function of branches, it is important. But look at the productivity. Our productivity has been going up as well, which means that whatever we have been opening, we are not compromising on letting the productivity down. So the branch adjusted for the HDFC Limited acquisition of deposits, if you look at the -- maybe the deck, I think the deck may have it or if not, I'll tell you, last year was about 260 -- 2.6 billion.

接近1,000。在此之前，我們做了大約 700 家。是的，我的意思是我意識到，雖然努力是增加和加強分配，因為最終，這並不意味著動員只是分支機構的職能，但它很重要。但看看生產力。我們的生產力也一直在提高，這意味著無論我們開放什麼，我們都不會在生產力下降的情況下妥協。因此，該分行針對 HDFC Limited 收購存款進行了調整，如果你看一下——也許是套牌，我認為套牌可能有，如果沒有，我會告訴你，去年約為 260 至 26 億。

INR 260 crores.

26億印度盧比。

INR 260-odd crores per branch. Now it is about INR 270 crores per branch adjusted for the merger, the deposits that came in from HDFC Limited as well. So which means that our branch strategy is actually working because India is a large country. We still believe the potential is there to expand. There is -- look at it, the large part of India, which is about 60% to 70% of India is in the semi-urban and rural geographies. Whilst the per capita is still low, but it is growing and it will grow fast. So we want to put up investments now. These are all investments for the future. This is not something that's going to contribute significantly to our deposit mobilization now. But it will in 5 years, in 10 years and 15 years, these are going to be significant drivers of deposit mobilization. So we are not cringing on that.

每個分公司 260 多億印度盧比。現在，在合併調整後，每個分行的存款約為 27 億盧比，其中存款也來自 HDFC Limited。這意味著我們的分支機構策略實際上正在發揮作用，因為印度是一個大國。我們仍然相信擴張的潛力。看看吧，印度的很大一部分，大約 60% 到 70% 的地區都位於城鄉結合部和農村地區。雖然人均仍然很低，但它正在成長，而且會快速成長。所以我們現在想進行投資。這些都是對未來的投資。現在這不會對我們的存款動員做出重大貢獻。但在 5 年、10 年和 15 年之後，這些將成為存款動員的重要驅動力。所以我們對此並不畏縮。

We would love to add more, but obviously, there's a finite capacity in terms of the various factors that I just mentioned. So yes, there are several things that are possible. We would love to do more, but it's not something don't box me, don't count or rather, as I said, I've restated with all humility that no more guidance. And forget my guidance that I had given, but we will continue to invest in the distribution architecture. Thank you.

我們很樂意添加更多內容，但顯然，就我剛才提到的各種因素而言，容量是有限的。所以，是的，有幾件事是可能的。我們很樂意做更多的事情，但這不是不要限制我、不要算數的事情，或者更確切地說，正如我所說，我已經謙虛地重申，沒有更多的指導。忘記我給的指導，但我們將繼續投資於分發架構。謝謝。

We also supplemented -- we have Smart Banking lobbies, 148 of them, which don't count as branches. But we did add 75 Smart Banking lobbies in this year. So those are different formats of distribution expansion and reach.

我們還補充說，我們有 148 個智慧銀行大廳，這些大廳不算分行。但今年我們確實增加了 75 個智慧銀行大廳。這些都是不同形式的發行擴展和覆蓋範圍。

Sir, I can't speak for others, but I'm very happy to hear that personally. Because I think the momentum you guys have got in CRB clearly, for that to go forward and longer term, if you -- what you're saying indeed comes through in terms of liability mobilization, then it's investment into the future. So I mean, I'm very happy that your short-term profit considerations don't [dry down.]

先生，我不能代表其他人發言，但我個人很高興聽到這個消息。因為我認為你們在 CRB 中所獲得的動力很明顯，為了未來和更長期的發展，如果你們所說的確實在責任動員方面得到體現，那麼這就是對未來的投資。所以我的意思是，我很高興你的短期利潤考慮沒有[枯竭。

No, thank you for that. Let me then -- probably, I think we have gone beyond our normal time, but let me just sum it up. Look, don't dismiss this franchise. We are going through a period of transition. It's like the coastal road, which is very close to our place, when people were -- when it was getting built, we were all sort of having a lot of problems with it or we were trying to navigate our traffic around it. But now when it's up and running, people are so delighted. That's the kind of -- we will have our day when we -- when the proportion of borrowings comes down. And when that will be there, we will have enough momentum in terms of funding, which we can then unleash in terms of growth as well.

不，謝謝你。那麼讓我——也許，我認為我們已經超出了正常時間，但讓我總結一下。聽著，不要忽視這個特許經營權。我們正在經歷一個過渡時期。這就像沿海公路，離我們家很近，當人們在建造它時，我們都遇到了很多問題，或者我們試圖在它周圍引導交通。但現在當它啟動並運行時，人們非常高興。當借款比例下降時，我們就會迎來屬於我們的那一天。當這種情況出現時，我們將在資金方面擁有足夠的動力，然後我們也可以在成長方面釋放這些動力。

So -- but it doesn't mean even during this period, as I said and I maintain that, we will maintain stability on our profitability metrics more so in the ROAs and the EPS, et cetera, on a core basis, and we will try and ensure that we have a positive bias in the trajectory over the next 2 to 3 years. We're rather confident. And I think the entire bank is extremely charged and galvanized. I know a lot of people probably are wanting to even ask some questions on the senior exits. So I can tell you that not just now, but go over the last 20 years, we have seen stalwarts who have come in and gone, but the organization has continued to roll forward, move forward with a lot of energy and more gusto, which means that what they've created is a very institutionalized organization with a lot of depth in management, many levels below me. So we are not process -- we are not person dependent. We have process-driven and process-dependent and that's the beauty about this organization. It's an auto engine, and we will -- this will chug along in any kind of an environment with the kind of business philosophy that we've always maintained.

因此，但這並不意味著即使在這段時間內，正如我所說並堅持認為，我們將在核心基礎上保持盈利指標的穩定性，尤其是在 ROA 和 EPS 等方面，我們將嘗試確保我們在未來2 到3 年的發展軌跡上有正面的偏差。我們還是比較有信心的。我認為整個銀行都充滿了活力和活力。我知道很多人可能想問一些有關高級出口的問題。所以我可以告訴你，不僅是現在，在過去的20年裡，我們看到了一些堅定的人來了又走，但這個組織一直在繼續前進，以巨大的能量和更多的熱情向前邁進，這意味著他們創造的是一個非常制度化的組織，管理深度很高，比我低很多等級。所以我們不是流程——我們不依賴個人。我們有流程驅動和流程依賴，這就是這個組織的美妙之處。這是一個汽車發動機，我們將——這將在任何環境中以我們一直堅持的經營理念運行。

Thank you, Sashi, with that. And I appreciate you all joining us today. If you have any more questions or any other inputs you need, feel free to reach out to us, our Investor Relations team, Bhavin or Aseem are available. And so will I be available at some point in time whenever you need.

謝謝你，薩西。我感謝大家今天加入我們。如果您有任何其他問題或需要任何其他意見，請隨時與我們聯繫，我們的投資者關係團隊、Bhavin 或 Aseem 都可以為您服務。因此，只要您有需要，我就會隨時為您服務。

With that, we can sign off for today. Good evening, and have a great weekend. Bye-bye.

這樣，我們今天就可以結束了。晚上好，祝週末愉快。再見。

Thank you all. Thank you.

謝謝你們。謝謝。

Thank you. On behalf of HDFC Bank Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

謝謝。我代表 HDFC Bank Limited 結束本次電話會議。感謝您加入我們，您現在可以斷開線路了。