HDFC Bank Ltd (HDB) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to HDFC Bank Limited's Q3 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call on the financial results presented by the management of HDFC Bank Limited. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference is being recorded.

女士們、先生們，美好的一天，歡迎參加 HDFC Bank Limited 的 24 財年第 3 季收益電話會議，會議內容是 HDFC Bank Limited 管理層公佈的財務業績。 （操作員說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄製中。

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Srinivasan Vaidyanathan, Chief Financial Officer, HDFC Bank. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

我現在將會議交給 HDFC 銀行財務長 Srinivasan Vaidyanathan 先生。謝謝您，接下來就交給您了，先生。

Okay. Thank you, Nirav. Good evening, and a warm welcome to all the participants. There is an earnings presentation deck published on our website. Please refer to it as appropriate. As you get to it, in the meantime, let's cover a brief on the macroeconomic environment that operated during the quarter before we review the earnings. We continued to see healthy domestic activity -- economic activity driven by robust common spending, primarily in capital expenditure, improvement in domestic manufacturing and resilient services sector performance. As you know, the GST collections grew 13% year-on-year.

好的。謝謝你，尼拉夫。晚上好，對各位嘉賓的到來表示熱烈的歡迎。我們的網站上發布了收益簡報。請酌情參考。同時，在我們回顧收益之前，讓我們先簡單介紹一下本季的宏觀經濟環境。我們繼續看到健康的國內活動—經濟活動由強勁的共同支出（主要是資本支出）、國內製造業的改善和富有彈性的服務業表現所推動。如您所知，GST 徵收額年增 13%。

Manufacturing and services PMI continued to remain in the expansionary zone and the consumption side improved consumer demand driven by sector spending resulted in robust growth across various sectors. Our (inaudible) rate unchanged at 6.5% and retained its stance and changed at withdrawal of accommodation and modestly reduced its inflation forecast in the second half of the year. As we look ahead, the economic environment is poised for strong growth. India's year-on-year GDP growth for financial year '24 is estimated at about 7%. And for financial year '25, GDP growth rate is expected to be around 6.5%, continuing to be one of the fastest-growing major economies in the world.

製造業及服務業PMI持續維持在擴張區間，消費端在部門支出拉動下消費需求改善，各產業成長強勁。我們的（聽不清楚）利率維持在 6.5% 不變，並維持其立場，並在退出寬鬆政策時發生變化，並小幅降低了下半年的通膨預測。展望未來，經濟環境將為強勁成長做好準備。印度24財年GDP年增率預計約為7%。 25財年GDP成長率預計在6.5%左右，繼續成為全球成長最快的主要經濟體之一。

Let's go through the key factors of the bank's growth journey. Advances can be referred to on Page 7 and 8. Gross advances are at INR 24.7 trillion as of 31st December, reflecting the sequential momentum of INR 1.1 trillion or 4.9%. Retail advances grew 3.3% quarter-on-quarter, primarily driven by strong performance in the mortgage business.

讓我們回顧一下銀行成長歷程的關鍵因素。預付款可參見第 7 頁和第 8 頁。截至 12 月 31 日，預付款總額為 24.7 兆印度盧比，反映了 1.1 兆印度盧比的環比勢頭，即 4.9%。零售預付款較上季成長 3.3%，主要受到抵押貸款業務強勁表現的推動。

Retail mortgage disbursements of INR 460 billion during the quarter grew 18% over prior year. In the CRB business, it continued its strong momentum, registering a quarter-on-quarter growth of 6.7%. Wholesale segment, excluding non-individual loans of HDFC grew 1.9% sequentially. Non-individual loans of HDFC aggregated to INR 0.99 trillion compared INR 1.03 trillion as of last quarter end.

本季零售抵押貸款支出為 4,600 億印度盧比，比去年同期成長 18%。 CRB業務持續保持強勁勢頭，較上季成長6.7%。批發業務（不包括 HDFC 的非個人貸款）較上季成長 1.9%。 HDFC 的非個人貸款總額為 0.99 兆印度盧比，而截至上季末為 1.03 兆印度盧比。

Focus on the primary deposits continued. Looking at Pages 7 and 9, total deposits as of December end amounted to INR 22.1 trillion, primarily comprising of retail deposits, which is at 84% of total deposits. Retail deposits, which are the bedrock of the franchise, grew well over INR 530 billion or 2.9% during the quarter, while non-retail deposits reduced by INR 118 billion quarter-on-quarter resulting in total deposit growth of INR 411 billion or 1.9% during the quarter. Current account deposits ended the quarter at INR 2.6 trillion, registering a growth of INR 80 billion or 3.2% sequentially or INR 280 billion, 12.3% over prior year.

繼續關注主要存款。從第7頁和第9頁來看，截至12月底的存款總額為22.1兆印度盧比，主要包括零售存款，佔存款總額的84%。作為該業務基礎的零售存款在本季度增長超過 5,300 億印度盧比，即 2.9%，而非零售存款環比減少 1,180 億印度盧比，導致總存款增長 4,110 億印度盧比，即 1.9%本季度的%。本季末經常帳存款為 2.6 兆印度盧比，季增 800 億印度盧比，增幅為 3.2%；較上年同期成長 2,800 億印度盧比，增幅為 12.3%。

Savings deposits as of December end at INR 5.8 trillion grew INR 99 billion or 1.7% sequentially and over INR 430 million or 8.3% year-on-year. Overall CASA deposits ended the quarter at INR 8.4 trillion, resulting in a CASA ratio of 37.7%. Term deposits aggregated to INR 13.8 trillion as of December end and grew by INR 232 billion or 1.7% during the quarter.

截至 12 月底，儲蓄存款為 5.8 兆印度盧比，較上季成長 990 億印度盧比，成長 1.7%，年成長超過 4.3 億印度盧比，成長 8.3%。本季末 CASA 存款總額為 8.4 兆印度盧比，CASA 比率為 37.7%。截至 12 月底，定期存款總額達 13.8 兆印度盧比，本季成長 2,320 億印度盧比，成長 1.7%。

On the distribution footprint expansion, referring to Page 10, it reflects our branch network, which stood at 8,091 outlets as of December end. Overall, there has been an increase of 908 branches over the last 12 months. During the quarter, we added 146 branches, which is at the rate of 1.6 branches per day. Payment acceptance points are at 4.8 million, a year-on-year growth of 25% as adoption of Vyapar app built momentum. In CRB, our rural business reach expanded to 210,000 villages, a growth of 60,000 villages over last year. In the customer franchise building, we added 2.2 million new customer liability relationships during the quarter and around 7.4 million relationships so far in the current fiscal year.

關於分銷足跡的擴張，請參閱第10頁，它反映了我們的分行網絡，截至12月底，分行網絡已達8,091個。總體而言，過去 12 個月增加了 908 家分行。本季度，我們新增了 146 家分行，即每天新增 1.6 家分行。隨著 Vyapar 應用程式的採用勢頭增強，支付受理點達到 480 萬個，年增 25%。在華潤銀行，我們的農村業務覆蓋到21萬個村莊，比去年增加了6萬個村莊。在客戶特許經營建設中，我們在本季度新增了 220 萬個客戶責任關係，本財年迄今新增了約 740 萬個客戶關係。

Our customer base stands at 93 million customers. This provides an opportunity to further engage and deepen our relationships. In order to position us for greater engagement, we have added 41,000 employees over the last 12 months and 10,000 during the quarter. On cards, we issued we issued 1.6 million new cards in the quarter. Total card base stands at 19.9 million.

我們的客戶群有 9,300 萬客戶。這提供了進一步參與和加深我們關係的機會。為了提高參與度，我們在過去 12 個月內增加了 41,000 名員工，在本季度增加了 10,000 名員工。在信用卡方面，我們本季發行了 160 萬張新卡。卡片總數為 1,990 萬張。

You'll see on Page 11, balance sheet remains resilient. LCR for the quarter was 110%, capital adequacy ratio was at 18.4%, Tier 1 ratio at 16.8%. Let's start with net revenues on Pages 12 and 13. Net revenues for the quarter were at INR 396 billion, grew by 25.8% over prior year. Net interest income for the quarter, which is 72% of net revenues and is at INR 285 billion, grew by 23.9% over prior year. The core net interest margin for the quarter was at 3.4%, and on an interest earning asset basis, net interest margin for the quarter was at 3.6% and was flat to prior quarter.

您將在第 11 頁看到，資產負債表仍然具有彈性。本季流動性覆蓋率為 110%，資本適足率為 18.4%，一級資本適足率為 16.8%。讓我們從第 12 頁和第 13 頁的淨收入開始。該季度的淨收入為 3,960 億印度盧比，比去年同期增長 25.8%。本季淨利息收入為 2,850 億印度盧比，佔淨收入的 72%，比上年同期成長 23.9%。本季核心淨利差為 3.4%，以生息資產計算，本季淨利差為 3.6%，與上季持平。

Getting to details of other income on Page 15. Total other income at INR 111 billion. Fees and commission income, which is almost close to 2/3 of the other income was at INR 69 billion and grew by 15% over prior year. Retail constitutes approximately 94% of fees and commission. FX and derivatives income at INR 12 billion was higher by 12% compared to prior year of INR 11 billion. Net trading and mark-to-market income were at INR 15 billion for the quarter, prior quarter was at about INR 10 billion. Other miscellaneous income of INR 15 billion includes recoveries from written-off accounts and dividends from subsidiaries.

有關其他收入的詳細信息，請參見第 15 頁。其他收入總額為 1,110 億印度盧比。幾乎接近其他收入2/3的手續費及佣金收入為690億印度盧比，比上年增長15%。零售業約佔費用和佣金的 94%。外匯和衍生性商品收入為 120 億印度盧比，比上一年的 110 億印度盧比成長 12%。本季淨交易和按市值計算的收入為 150 億印度盧比，上一季約為 100 億印度盧比。 150 億印度盧比的其他雜項收入包括沖銷帳戶的收回和子公司的股利。

Referring to Page 16 on operating expenses for the quarter, which were at INR 160 billion, an increase of 28% prior year. Cost-to-income ratio for the quarter was at 40.3%. Cost to assets was at 1.9%.

請參閱第 16 頁，該季度的營運支出為 1,600 億印度盧比，比去年同期成長 28%。該季度的成本收入比為40.3%。資產成本為1.9%。

Coming to the asset quality on Page 17 to 19, the GNPA ratio was at 1.26% compared to 1.34% in prior quarter, and 1.23% prior year. Out of the 1.26%, about 15 basis points are standard, but the core GNPA ratio is at 1.11%. However, these are included by us in NPA as one of the other facilities of the borrower is in NPA. Net NPA ratio for the quarter was 0.31%. Prior quarter was at 0.35%. The slippage ratio for the current quarter is -- slippage for the current quarter is at about INR 70 billion or 26 basis points. Last quarter was at about INR 78 billion.

從第 17 頁至第 19 頁的資產品質來看，國民生產毛額比率為 1.26%，上一季為 1.34%，前一年為 1.23%。在1.26%中，大約15個基點是標準的，但核心國民生產毛額比率為1.11%。然而，這些都被我們納入 NPA 中，因為借款人的其他設施之一也在 NPA 中。本季淨不良資產率為 0.31%。上一季為 0.35%。本季的滑點比率為－本季的滑點約為 700 億印度盧比或 26 個基點。上季約為 780 億印度盧比。

During the quarter, recoveries and upgrades were INR 45 billion. Write-offs in the quarter were at about INR 31 billion. No sale of NPA accounts during the quarter. On the provision side, total provisions reported were around INR 42 billion. And excluding the contingent provision, it was INR 30 billion as against INR 29 billion during the prior quarter and INR 28 billion for the prior year. As I just mentioned, the total provisions in the current quarter included additional contingent provisions of approximately INR 12 billion, and it is pertaining to investments in AIF on a prudent basis. The fair value of AIF is up by INR 5 billion, but 100% provisions are being taken at book value. The core specific loan-loss provisions for the quarter of around INR 26 billion as against INR 25 billion in the prior quarter.

本季恢復和升級費用為 450 億印度盧比。該季度的沖銷額約為 310 億印度盧比。本季度沒有出售 NPA 帳戶。在撥備方面，報告的撥備總額約為 420 億印度盧比。在不包括或有準備金的情況下，這一數字為 300 億印度盧比，而上一季為 290 億印度盧比，上一年為 280 億印度盧比。正如我剛才提到的，本季的撥備總額包括約120億盧比的額外或有撥備，這與審慎基礎上對AIF的投資有關。 AIF 的公允價值增加了 50 億印度盧比，但 100% 撥備按帳面價值提列。本季的核心特定貸款損失準備金約為 260 億印度盧比，而上一季為 250 億印度盧比。

The provision coverage ratio was at 75%. At the end of current quarter, contingent provisions and floating provisions were approximately INR 154 billion, general provisions were INR 105 billion. The total provisions comprising specific floating, contingent and general were about 159% of gross nonperforming loans. This is in addition to security held as collateral in several of the cases. In addition, the bank holds contingent provisions of INR 12 billion on a prudent basis to AIF I just mentioned. Floating contingent and general provisions, excluding the contingent provision on AIF were about 105 basis points of gross advances as of December end.

撥備覆蓋率為75%。截至本季末，或有準備金和浮動準備金約為 1,540 億印度盧比，一般準備金為 1,050 億印度盧比。包括特定浮動準備金、或有準備金和一般準備金在內的總準備金約佔不良貸款總額的159%。這是在一些案例中作為抵押品的安全的補充。此外，銀行也謹慎地為我剛才提到的AIF持有120億盧比的或有準備金。截至 12 月底，浮動或有準備金和一般準備金（不包括 AIF 或有準備金）約為預付款總額的 105 個基點。

Coming to credit cost ratio, the total annualized credit cost ratio for the quarter, excluding the contingent provisions I just referred, was at 49 basis points, prior quarter was also at 49 basis points. Recoveries, which are recorded as miscellaneous income amounted to 13 basis points of gross advances for the quarter as against 16 basis points for the prior quarter. The total credit cost ratio, net of recoveries, was at 35 basis points in the current quarter as compared 34 basis points in the prior quarter.

說到信貸成本比率，除去我剛才提到的或有準備金，本季的年化信貸成本總額總額為 49 個基點，上一季也是 49 個基點。本季以雜項收入記錄的回收總額為預付款總額 13 個基點，而上一季為 16 個基點。本季的總信貸成本比率（扣除回收金額）為 35 個基點，而上一季為 34 個基點。

The profit before tax was at INR 194 billion, grew by 19.8% over prior year. After INR 15 billion of tax provisions no longer required, consequently to the favorable orders received, net profits after tax for the quarter was at INR 164 billion, grew by 33.5% over prior year.

稅前利潤為1,940億印度盧比，較上年增加19.8%。不再需要150億盧比的稅收撥備後，加上收到的有利訂單，該季度稅後淨利潤為1640億盧比，比上年同期增長33.5%。

Summaries of subsidiaries can be seen on Pages 21 to 26. On HDB -- to cover on HDB, the quality of the book continues to see sustained improvement with a gross stage 3 of 2.25% as of December against 3.73% as of prior year-end -- prior year end -- prior year. Provision coverage on Stage 3 book stood at 68%. Profit after tax for the quarter ended December increased to INR 6.4 billion against INR 6 billion for the quarter ended September 30. ROA and ROE annualized for the quarter of December stood at 3.1% and 19.9%, respectively. Earnings per share for the quarter was at INR 8.04 and book value per share stands at INR 164.6.

子公司的摘要可以在第 21 至 26 頁上看到。關於 HDB – 為了涵蓋 HDB，該書的品質持續改善，截至 12 月第三階段的毛利率為 2.25%，而去年為 3.73%。年底——上一年年底——前一年。第三階段帳面撥備覆蓋率為 68%。截至 12 月的季度稅後利潤增至 64 億印度盧比，而截至 9 月 30 日的季度為 60 億印度盧比。12 月季度的 ROA 和 ROE 年化率分別為 3.1% 和 19.9%。本季每股收益為 8.04 印度盧比，每股帳面價值為 164.6 印度盧比。

Now getting to HDFC Life on an IGAAP basis. The profit after tax for the quarter ended December was at INR 3.7 billion, grew 16% year-on-year. India embedded value at INR 451 billion improved 20% compared to prior year.

現在進入基於 IGAAP 的 HDFC Life。截至12月的季度稅後利潤為37億印度盧比，年增16%。印度內含價值為 4,510 億印度盧比，較上年增長 20%。

On AMC, quarterly average AUM at INR 5.5 trillion grew 24% year-on-year. Profit after tax for the quarter amounted to INR 4.9 billion registering a year-on-year growth of 33%. Earnings per share for the quarter was at INR 22.9.

AMC 季度平均資產管理規模為 5.5 兆印度盧比，較去年同期成長 24%。該季度稅後利潤達 49 億印度盧比，年增 33%。本季每股收益為 22.9 印度盧比。

HDFC ERGO on an IGAAP basis. Profit after tax for the quarter ended December was at INR 1.3 billion, registering a growth of 6% year-on-year. Solvency ratio at 187% as of December end. HSL, our securities company, the total reported revenue for the quarter -- total reported net profit for the quarter after tax was INR 2.3 billion as against INR 2 billion in Q2 '23. Earnings per share in the total was INR 144 and book value per share stands at INR 1,253.

HDFC ERGO 基於 IGAAP。截至12月的季度稅後利潤為13億印度盧比，年增6%。截至 12 月底，償付能力充足率為 187%。我們的證券公司 HSL，本季報告的總收入——報告的稅後淨利潤總額為 23 億印度盧比，而 2023 年第二季為 20 億印度盧比。每股盈餘總計為 144 印度盧比，每股帳面價值為 1,253 印度盧比。

On ESG, kicking up our CSR commitment, the bank has undertaken multiple projects across India, with an aim to address critical developmental issues such as sustainable livelihood, education, soil and water conservation and key ratings and awards are in Page 27 for reference.

在ESG方面，為了履行企業社會責任承諾，該行在印度各地開展了多個項目，旨在解決可持續生計、教育、水土保持等關鍵發展問題，主要評級和獎項請參見第27頁以供參考。

In summary, our results reflect robustness in growth across various parameters driven by employees passionately working with our customers to execute the business model, which has resulted in an advances growth sequentially of 4.9% and 2.9% sequential momentum in retail deposit growth. Profit after tax for the quarter increased by 33% versus prior year, delivering a return on assets in the quarter of about 2% and return on equity of about 15.8%. Earnings per share reported in the quarter is at INR 21.6 on a standalone bank level and INR 22.7 at the consolidated bank level. Book value per share on a stand-alone basis is at INR 556, and on a consolidated basis, it is at INR 576.

總而言之，我們的業績反映了員工熱情地與客戶合作執行業務模式所推動的各種參數的強勁增長，這導致零售存款成長的環比成長勢頭為 4.9% 和 2.9%。該季度稅後利潤較上年同期增長 33%，該季度資產回報率約為 2%，股本回報率約為 15.8%。本季度報告的獨立銀行每股收益為 21.6 印度盧比，合併銀行水準為 22.7 印度盧比。每股帳面價值的獨立基礎為 556 印度盧比，合併基礎上的每股帳面價值為 576 印度盧比。

With that, may I request the operator to open up the line for questions, please?

那麼，我可以請接線生開通提問線路嗎？

(Operator Instructions) The first question is from the line of Mahrukh Adajania from Nuvama.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自來自 Nuvama 的 Mahrukh Adajania。

Sir I have 2 questions basically, and the first one in general is on deposit growth. Sir, in general there's a lot of noise around RBI having a discussion with banks on LDR, plus deposit growth has been very, very tight in November and December irrespective of whether you've had a discussion with RBI or not. So how do you view deposit growth and LDR from here on? If you could give us some sense target or guidance on how LDR will pan out, or what LDR are you looking at in FY '25.

先生，我基本上有兩個問題，第一個問題一般是關於存款成長。先生，總的來說，印度央行與銀行就存貸比進行討論的聲音很大，而且無論您是否與印度央行進行過討論，11 月和 12 月的存款增長都非常非常緊張。那麼您如何看待今後存款成長和貸存比呢？您能否給我們一些關於 LDR 將如何實現的有意義的目標或指導，或者您在 25 財年期待什麼 LDR。

And a related question to that is that if deposit taking remains tight irrespective of the LDR debate, then what would you choose? Would you choose to offer higher rates compared to competition because you ask rate for deposits is on the higher side now? Or would you choose lower margins if the deposit situation remains like this for say 2 quarters?

與此相關的一個問題是，如果無論 LDR 爭論如何，吸收存款仍然緊張，那麼您會選擇什麼？與競爭對手相比，您是否會選擇提供更高的利率，因為您現在的存款利率較高？或者，如果存款情況持續兩個季度，您會選擇較低的保證金嗎？

Thank you, Mahrukh, for asking. If I miss anything, come back, but let me start with your first one in terms of the deposits and the CD ratio itself, right? It probably addresses a broader point that many of them would have. If you think about -- first of all, any conversations with RBI is confidential, and it is between the regulator and the bank. So we will not be able to talk about any individual conversations or anything else. So keep that to the side. That's not your main point. Your main point is in terms of the rate of growth of deposits as well as on the CD ratio, given where it is. So let's talk about that.

謝謝馬魯克的提問。如果我錯過了什麼，請回來，但讓我從您的第一個關於存款和 CD 比率本身的問題開始，對嗎？它可能解決了許多人都會有的更廣泛的問題。如果你想一想——首先，與印度央行的任何對話都是保密的，而且是在監管機構和銀行之間進行的。因此，我們將無法談論任何個人對話或其他任何事情。所以把它放在一邊。這不是你的重點。你的主要觀點是存款成長率以及存款準備率（CD 比率）。那我們來談談這個吧。

Now on the deposits if you see. Firstly, on the deposits I do want to mention that how we approached it here. At an overall level, our deposits grew by INR 411 billion. At an overall level, our deposits were at that level. Yes, yes, I am closer to the mic. I think somebody is saying they can't hear. So INR 411 billion. That's the total growth that we had. Within that, if you see the retail deposit growth of INR 530 billion and 2.9% during the quarter. However, nonretail deposits reduced by INR 118 billion, INR 118 billion quarter-on-quarter it reduced, almost 3.3% reduction sequentially in the nonretail deposit. Again, very price-sensitive. We chose not to participate and get that price thing up. And we wanted to focus more and more on granular there. So that's one.

如果你看到的話，現在就存款了。首先，關於存款，我確實想提一下我們在這裡是如何處理它的。總體而言，我們的存款增加了 4,110 億印度盧比。總體而言，我們的存款處於這個水平。是的，是的，我離麥克風更近了。我想有人會說他們聽不到。所以4110億印度盧比。這就是我們的總成長。其中，本季零售存款成長 5,300 億印度盧比，成長 2.9%。然而，非零售存款減少1,180億印度盧比，季減1,180億印度盧比，非零售存款較上季減少近3.3%。再次，對價格非常敏感。我們選擇不參與並提高價格。我們希望越來越多地關注細節。這就是其中之一。

And if you think about the individual component of various deposits, we did -- I talked about the current account growing at 3.2%, and within the current account, the retail current account constitutes 72% and has been growing 3.8% sequentially. And the savings account deposits I'll come back and talk about the savings as such, right? There is something on the savings which is -- we need to see that, right? Where you are seeing 2 things on savings. One, given the rate where we are in peak is the preference for time deposits. Two, in terms of the spend, we are seeing good amount of spend that is happening from the customers. In our own base, we can see 18%, 20% spend from -- on the issuing side -- on the acquiring side from a cards point of view.

如果你考慮各種存款的個別組成部分，我們確實——我談到經常賬戶增長了 3.2%，在經常賬戶中，零售經常賬戶佔 72%，並且連續增長了 3.8%。儲蓄帳戶存款我會回來討論儲蓄本身，對吧？關於儲蓄，我們需要看到這一點，對嗎？您將看到關於儲蓄的兩件事。第一，考慮到我們處於高峰的利率，人們對定期存款的偏好。第二，就支出而言，我們看到客戶發生了大量支出。在我們自己的基礎上，從卡片的角度來看，我們可以看到 18%、20% 的支出來自發卡方和收單方。

So people are spending. And one other measure we stick, we look at our -- aggregate of our card customers what is the balance that they have, right? If you look at the card ANR versus the deposit against it, almost 5.4x they have, right? That means for every 100 that I have as my card balance outstanding, I have 5.4x that in my savings -- in my deposit account in the bank. So there seems to be more spending room there to go. So that's one. And from a rate cycle point of view. And how do you overcome that is to get more customers. I talked about 2.2 million customers, 7.4 million. These are the kind of what we have. Now coming to the -- what does it all do from a deposit growth...

所以人們在消費。我們堅持的另一項措施是，我們查看我們的信用卡客戶的總餘額，他們的餘額是多少，對吧？如果你看看卡片上的 ANR 與存款相比，幾乎是 5.4 倍，對嗎？這意味著我的卡片餘額每有 100 美元，我的儲蓄就有 5.4 倍——在我的銀行存款帳戶中。因此，那裡似乎還有更多的支出空間。這就是其中之一。從利率週期的角度來看。如何克服這個問題就是獲得更多客戶。我談到了 220 萬客戶，740 萬。這些就是我們所擁有的。現在來談談存款成長對這一切有何影響...

Sir?

先生？

Yes. I'm here. So I'm getting -- you can't hear? Can you hear?

是的。我在這。所以我明白了──你聽不到嗎？你聽得到嗎？

Mahrukh, can you hear us?

Mahrukh，妳聽得到我們說話嗎？

Okay, I will go ahead. Probably she is -- you can hear, Nirav?

好的，我繼續。也許她是──你聽到了嗎，尼拉夫？

Yes, sir, I can hear you fine.

是的，先生，我聽得很清楚。

Hello?

你好？

Yes, Mahrukh, now you are audible.

是的，Mahrukh，現在你可以聽到了。

So getting to our CD ratio as such, right? Yes, the LDR, which is the CD ratio that you alluded to, it's a little more than 110% as we close the quarter. Over a period of time, if you see in this quarter, how did we manage the balance sheet. We had INR 1.15 trillion growth in loans, if you see. And we funded that through INR 411 billion on deposits. And you had investments going down by about INR 485 billion and cash and cash equivalent by about INR 96 million. So essentially, we funded that by the balance sheet somewhat coming -- not on the asset side. We got that self- funded through some lower investments. That is what we're seeing in the LCR ratio going down 110%. So some of the securities came down and cash came down as the ICR ran down on October...

那麼我們的 CD 比率就是這樣的，對吧？是的，LDR，即您提到的 CD 比率，在我們本季結束時略高於 110%。在一段時間內，如果你看到這個季度，我們是如何管理資產負債表的。如果你看到的話，我們的貸款增加了 1.15 兆印度盧比。我們透過 4,110 億印度盧比的存款提供資金。投資減少了約 4,850 億印度盧比，現金和現金等價物減少了約 9,600 萬印度盧比。因此，從本質上講，我們是透過資產負債表來資助這項項目的，而不是在資產方面。我們透過一些較低的投資獲得了自籌資金。這就是我們看到的 LCR 比率下降了 110%。因此，隨著 10 月 ICR 的下跌，一些證券下跌，現金也下跌…

I'm unable to hear you.

我聽不到你說話。

Nirav, can you hear?

尼拉夫，你聽得到嗎？

Yes, sir. Sir, line for Mahrukh has dropped. We'll move to the next participant. Next question is from the line of Pranav from Bernstein.

是的先生。先生，Mahrukh 的路線已掛起。我們將轉向下一位參與者。下一個問題來自伯恩斯坦的普拉納夫。

I think a question, again, related to deposits, the one question. When you think about deposits this quarter instead of say INR 400 billion that you treated, if you had to double or triple that number, which is the biggest constraint? Is it the LCR, which is a constraint, or is it simply the cost of deposits, or is it the lack of good lending opportunities? Where are you seeing the biggest constraint?

我認為還有一個問題與存款有關，這是唯一一個問題。當您考慮本季的存款而不是說您處理的 4000 億印度盧比時，如果您必須將這個數字增加一倍或三倍，那麼最大的限制是什麼？是流動性覆蓋率（LCR）成為限制因素，還是只是存款成本，還是缺乏良好的貸款機會？您認為最大的限制在哪裡？

Yes. The biggest constraint is in the area of deposits, right? And if you look at what has happened in the system, very important to look at the liquidity in the system, how it has moved. If you see, it has been positive ever since Q1 '20. The system liquidity has been positive since Q1 '20. And now it has moved to a negative territory. All the way, if you look right now, this is the first quarter -- full quarter that Q3 that it is a negative INR 664 billion, right? That's the negative situation in the quarter system has gone down by, that's the average that you're seeing.

是的。最大的限制是在存款方面，對嗎？如果你看看系統中發生了什麼，非常重要的是查看系統中的流動性及其變化。如果你看到的話，自 20 年第一季以來，它一直是積極的。自 20 年第一季以來，系統流動性一直為正。現在它已經進入負值區域。一路走來，如果你現在看，這是第一季——第三季度的整個季度，負值是 6640 億印度盧比，對吧？這就是季度系統中的負面情況已經下降，這就是你看到的平均值。

So it's the lack of liquidity in the system. Rightfully so if you look at how RBI has managed, there is no rate change that has happened. But the inflation that spiked 4 months ago, 5 months ago, has been managed through liquidity constraints, right, through working on the liquidity side. That is what has happened on a temporary basis.

所以這是系統中缺乏流動性。理所當然，如果你看看印度央行的管理方式，你會發現利率沒有改變。但四個月前、五個月前飆升的通膨是透過流動性限制來控制的，對吧，透過流動性方面的工作來控制。這就是暫時發生的情況。

But over quarter-to-quarter, this is happening, but it is coming after more than 3 years, 3.5 years, right? We are seeing liquidity on the negative, which has been there. If you look at last 10 years, there have been several quarters in the past in '13 or in '15, 2013, 2015, where it has been negative. But this order of magnitude negative is very recent, in the last 3 months it has become negative. So that deposit is an important ingredient, that is the important constraint to growth, right? And we are at it.

但從季度到季度來看，這種情況正在發生，但它發生在 3 年多、3.5 年後，對嗎？我們看到流動性一直存在負面影響。如果你看看過去10年，你會發現過去13年或15年、2013年、2015年有幾季出現了負值。但這個數量級的負值是最近才出現的，在過去三個月已經變成負值了。那麼存款是一個重要的因素，也是成長的重要限制因素，對嗎？我們正在努力。

And within that, I will tell you retail has done reasonable. We would have liked retail to do 50% more, 80% more than where we did. But it is the wholesale, if you see not just a lack of growth, it's a degrowth in the nonretail on the deposit side. That is where it is very price sensitive. We chose not to participate in that price as much as possible. We have avoided that so that we can consume some liquidity that we have and at the same time, make progress on the asset side. But that can't continue for long, as you know. LDR ratio is at 110-something. So we do need deposits to be kicking in for the loans to be operating. That also answers what Mahrukh was asking, very similar thing that you're asking. Yes, we do need the deposits to be coming in.

其中，我會告訴你零售業的表現是合理的。我們希望零售業能比我們多做 50%、80%。但這是批發業務，如果你看到的不僅是缺乏成長，而是存款方面非零售業務的去成長。這就是它對價格非常敏感的地方。我們選擇盡可能不參與這個價格。我們避免了這種情況，這樣我們就可以消耗一些我們擁有的流動性，同時在資產方面取得進展。但正如你所知，這種情況不會持續太久。 LDR比率在110左右。因此，我們確實需要注入存款才能使貸款正常運作。這也回答了 Mahrukh 所問的問題，與您所問的非常相似。是的，我們確實需要存款。

Next question is from Suresh Ganapathy from Macquarie Research.

下一個問題來自麥格理研究中心的 Suresh Ganapathy。

Srini, so just want to understand what is going to drive the margins in the future. Because if I look at it this quarter, you sold of INR 50,000 crores, your LCR is at 110%, you can't go below that. There is no excess liquidity assets at 110% LCR, right, and funding costs may remain elevated. So when you are saying I want to go from 3.4% to 3.7%, incremental CASA mobilization is getting to be a challenge. .

Srini，所以我只想了解未來利潤率的推動因素是什麼。因為如果我看一下這個季度，你賣了 50,00 億印度盧比，你的 LCR 是 110%，你不能低於這個數字。 LCR 為 110%（右）時，不存在多餘的流動性資產，融資成本仍可能居高不下。因此，當你說我想從 3.4% 提高到 3.7% 時，增量 CASA 動員就成為一個挑戰。 。

Term deposit growth is high. Your HDFC Limited borrowings are sitting there at 7.5%. So deposit growth is finding difficult to meet your own loan growth requirements. When are you going to replace the HDFC Limited liabilities. So amidst all these challenges, what will drive your margins, say, from 3.4% to 3.7%, say, over the course of next 18 to 24 months? Will it be yield on loans? Because it doesn't look like it can go through cost of funds? That's the first question. If you can elaborate the movement in margins. Some indication as to what will be the components and how are you going to manage the HDFC Limited liability replacement with deposits, point number one?

定期存款成長較高。您的 HDFC Limited 借款利率為 7.5%。因此，存款成長很難滿足您自己的貸款成長要求。您打算何時更換 HDFC 有限責任公司？那麼，在所有這些挑戰中，什麼會在未來 18 到 24 個月內推動您的利潤率從 3.4% 提高到 3.7%？會是貸款收益率嗎？因為它看起來不像可以通過資金成本？這是第一個問題。如果你能詳細說明邊距的變化。關於組成部分是什麼以及您將如何用存款管理 HDFC 有限責任更換的一些指示，第一點？

And the second thing is, 1,500 branches doesn't look like it's happening this year because we have only opened 290 branches -- sorry, 270 this year. You're going to fall short of your 1,500 branches target by a wide margin. What is the thought process there? Over to you, Srini.

第二件事是，1,500 家分行看起來不像今年會發生，因為我們只開了 290 家分行——對不起，今年是 270 家。您將遠遠達不到 1,500 個分支機構的目標。那裡的思考過程是怎麼樣的？交給你了，斯里尼。

Okay. Yes, thank you. I'll take the second one first. From a branches point of view, yes, there are a little more than 500, 550 branches in the pipeline as we closed the quarter. And we are targeting somewhere maybe 800 to 1,000 branches or so, right? If we do 1,000 branches, it would be good. A little more than 500, 550 branches are in the pipeline. So that's something on the branches. 1,500 is not something that will happen by March, right? 1,000 is something that is possible. But at this time, we are having about 500 plus in the pipeline, that's 570 more precise in the pipeline.

好的。是的，謝謝。我先拿第二個。從分公司的角度來看，是的，截至本季結束時，正在籌建的分公司略多於 500 至 550 家。我們的目標可能是 800 到 1,000 個左右的分支機構，對吧？如果我們做10​​00個分支就很好了。略多於 500 至 550 個分公司正在籌備中。這就是樹枝上的東西。 1,500 不是三月就會發生的事情，對嗎？ 1,000 是有可能的。但目前，我們正在準備大約 500 多個，即 570 個更精確的正在準備中。

The second aspect of it is in terms of your levers for margin and the deposits as such at total level. If you look at the mix of products that we are having, the mix of products, one of the important lever is the retail mix to be enhanced, right? Retail mix has been continuously coming down. And that is something that will help us to go. And of late, in the recent times, if you see, we haven't had that kind of a market rate of growth on the unsecured as such. Our personal loan has been growing 2% to 3% over the last 2 quarters. So we do have opportunity space there. That's part of our credit kind of process, where periodically, they calibrate up and down. And now we believe that the overall credit both from an NPA point of view and credit cost point of view are at a benign state. And so whatever testing and other things may do, we are positioned to have a good growth there. That's one.

第二個方面是保證金槓桿和存款總額。如果你看看我們擁有的產品組合，產品組合，重要的槓桿之一就是要增強的零售組合，對吧？零售組合不斷下降。這將幫助我們前進。最近，如果你看的話，最近一段時間，我們還沒有看到無擔保債券的市場成長率。過去 2 個季度我們的個人貸款成長了 2% 至 3%。所以我們確實有機會空間。這是我們信用流程的一部分，他們會定期進行上下校準。現在我們認為，無論是從不良資產角度或是從信貸成本角度來看，整體信貸都處於良性狀態。因此，無論測試和其他事情可能會做什麼，我們都將在那裡實現良好的成長。這是一個。

Retail asset growth, particularly the nonmortgage retail asset, where there is a yield, needs to come up. And the mortgage is another big opportunity that we have, both existing customers, where we have almost 4.8 million preapproved, prequalified database to go through, which we have done in our existing base who are eligible that we are making offers and talking about it. And also 5.6 million customers who already have somewhere we are targeting that. So that's -- in terms of the retail mix needs to go up, that is an enhancer for the margin. And to some extent, it picks up on the ROA too, right? So that's an important mix. That's not what we have seen in recent times. The recent times, the wholesale growth has been overwhelming the retail loan growth. We do need to reverse that. That's part of the process in terms of what we are going through.

零售資產成長，尤其是有收益率的非抵押零售資產，需要上升。抵押貸款是我們現有客戶的另一個重大機會，我們有近480 萬個預先批准的、資格預審的資料庫需要經過，我們已經在我們現有的基礎上完成了這些工作，他們有資格我們正在提供報價並進行討論。還有 560 萬客戶已經擁有我們的目標客戶。因此，就零售組合需要提高而言，這是利潤率的增強劑。在某種程度上，它也會影響 ROA，對吧？所以這是一個重要的組合。這不是我們最近看到的情況。最近一段時間，批發貸款的成長已經超過了零售貸款的成長。我們確實需要扭轉這個局面。這是我們正在經歷的過程的一部分。

Now getting to what are the other levers, which you also mentioned, but there are headwinds on that, right, CASA ratio. We are at 37.7%. Even before merger, we were 42%. Over a long period of time, we were 42%, 43% thereabouts. We are confident of getting the CASA ratio back up. There are 2 aspects to the CASA ratio. One is the customer spending will abate at some point in time. And the second thing is that we are getting new customers. That is why it is important to get new customers, 2.2 million new customer liability relationships were brought in, in this quarter, 7.4 million over the 9-month period. It is important to bring new customers and get them to a maturity. So that is an important thing that we are working on to get that from a CASA ratio to go back up.

現在談談您也提到的其他槓桿，但 CASA 比率有阻力。我們是 37.7%。即使在合併之前，我們的市場佔有率也是 42%。在很長一段時間內，我們是42%、43%左右。我們有信心恢復 CASA 比率。 CASA 比率有兩個面向。一是客戶支出在某個時間點將會減少。第二件事是我們正在吸引新客戶。這就是為什麼獲得新客戶很重要，本季新增了 220 萬客戶責任關係，在 9 個月期間新增了 740 萬客戶。吸引新客戶並使他們成熟非常重要。因此，我們正在努力讓 CASA 比率回升，這是一件重要的事情。

And also we're at the rate cycle -- the rates haven't moved for several quarters now. And by all accounts, we are at the peak of the rate cycle. And the deposit repricing that needs to happen in a quarter or so should be done because the rate cycle started in May '22, and then the CASA should be back to its normal growth, right? So that's something on the CASA ratio. We do -- we are waiting and vehemently pursuing that to come.

而且我們正處於利率週期——利率已經幾個季度沒有變化了。從各方面來看，我們正處於利率週期的巔峰。需要在一個季度左右進行的存款重新定價應該完成，因為利率週期從 22 年 5 月開始，然後 CASA 應該會恢復正常成長，對嗎？這就是 CASA 比率的問題。我們確實如此——我們正在等待並強烈追求這一目標的到來。

The other aspect that you said, borrowings, whether the borrowings can -- how do you replace the borrowings with deposits? Yes, 8% of our balance sheet was borrowing, now it is 21% is borrowings. We do need to change that from -- to deposit funding. But one other aspect that we have started to pursue even in this quarter is that the borrowings are -- can continue as borrowing. So we got INR 7,500 crores of long-term affordable housing bonds that we have, infrastructure bonds that we issued in this quarter. The economics of that are like a deposit, not like a CASA deposit but like a time deposit, right, slightly better than a time deposit because you obviate the PSLC cost and you -- because the affordable housing is tagged against it. We do have almost INR 1 trillion of affordable housing in our assets table that we can stack to. The deposit insurance cost is obviated. And so there are some benefits that come. So it equates to slightly better than our time deposits at an overall level. But that doesn't mean we do need CASA, but there are other opportunities on the borrowings, too.

你說的另一個方面，借款，借款能不能──怎麼用存款代替借款？是的，我們資產負債表的 8% 是藉款，現在是 21% 是藉款。我們確實需要將其從存款資金改為存款資金。但即使在本季度，我們也開始追求的另一個方面是，借款可以繼續作為借款。因此，我們獲得了 750 億印度盧比的長期經濟適用住房債券，以及我們在本季發行的基礎設施債券。其經濟學就像存款，不像 CASA 存款，而是像定期存款，對吧，比定期存款稍好一些，因為你消除了 PSLC 成本，而且你 - 因為經濟適用房是與之相對應的。我們的資產表中確實有近 1 兆印度盧比的經濟適用房可供我們疊加使用。存款保險費用被消除。因此，會有一些好處。因此，總體而言，它略好於我們的定期存款。但這並不意味著我們確實需要 CASA，但藉款還有其他機會。

Okay. And just one final question on cost saving. You guys have said you will bring down from 40% to 35% over the course of next 5 years. I know it's a long journey, the fact that you're opening lower number of branches. Can we get to see some benefits, not quantifying, but some benefits in that reduction next year FY '25? At least there has to be a journey in that 500 basis point reduction, right? So we were at 40 point, I don't know, 4 last quarter, and we are at 40.2 or something like thereabout, I mean, around the same range. Do you think it can really come down in the next 1 year or so?

好的。最後一個問題是關於節省成本的。你們說過在未來 5 年內將把這一比例從 40% 降低到 35%。我知道這是一個漫長的旅程，事實上你們開設的分店數量較少。我們能否看到一些好處，不是量化的，而是明年 25 財年減少的一些好處？至少必須有一個降低 500 個基點的過程，對嗎？所以我們的得分是 40 分，我不知道，上個季度是 4 分，我們的得分是 40.2 或類似的數字，我的意思是，大約在相同的範圍內。您認為未來1年左右真的能下降嗎？

We are with you, Suresh, on that. Yes, we do expect normally -- while we don't give a forward-looking outlook, but on the cost to income, we have always said that we want to take it down to the mid-30s. And that we will progressively take it down on not just towards the back end, but there should be an expectation that the cost to income should be improving. And it is a function of certain efficiencies through better digital offering, that's one. Several things that are in the pipeline on technology rationalization is one that is a good tailwind that should account for it. And the second thing is that as we work on some of these margins, which is both the asset mix, the CASA mix and the borrowings mix moving towards deposit, as we work towards that, the numerator is also an important contributor to get to that.

蘇雷什，我們在這方面與你站在一起。是的，我們確實正常預期——雖然我們不給出前瞻性展望，但就收入成本而言，我們一直說我們希望將其降至 30 多歲左右。我們不僅會在後端逐步降低成本，而且應該預期收入成本應該會有所改善。它是透過更好的數位產品提供一定效率的函數，就是這樣。技術合理化方面正在醞釀的幾件事是一個很好的推動力，應該要解釋這一點。第二件事是，當我們致力於其中一些利潤時，即資產組合、CASA組合和借貸組合轉向存款，當我們努力實現這一目標時，分子也是實現這一目標的重要貢獻者。

Next question is from the line of Rahul Jain from Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛 (Goldman Sachs) 的拉胡爾·賈恩 (Rahul Jain)。

Two, three questions. Number one, the whole debate between LDR and LCR. For you as a management team, what is it that you're focusing on? I know you've put out a certain trajectory for LDR, but right now, the LCR has kind of come off to 110% as the previous participant pointed out, 110%, clearly, there's not really much room for it to go down. So what really is a key number to focus on for you all?

二、三個問題。第一，LDR 和 LCR 之間的整個爭論。對於您作為管理團隊來說，您關注的重點是什麼？我知道你已經為 LDR 制定了一定的軌跡，但現在，正如前一位參與者指出的那樣，LCR 已經下降到 110%，110%，顯然，它沒有太大的下降空間。那麼，對大家來說，真正需要關注的關鍵數字是什麼呢？

Okay. Listen, both are important. It's like you need to walk and chew gum, right? You need to do both, which means LCR, as we have said before that we'd like to operate between 110% to 120%. We were at several quarters, 113%, 114%, 115% thereabouts. Then for a quarter, we went up, and then we have consumed -- as we see in this quarter, we have consumed, right? So it is important around that level to keep that level of cushion to some extent, right? That's one on the LCR.

好的。聽著，兩者都很重要。就像你需要邊走邊嚼口香糖一樣，對吧？你需要兩者都做，這意味著 LCR，正如我們之前所說，我們希望在 110% 到 120% 之間運行。我們在幾季分別為 113%、114%、115%。然後在一個季度裡，我們上漲了，然後我們消費了——正如我們在本季度看到的那樣，我們消費了，對嗎？因此，圍繞該水平保持一定程度的緩衝水平很重要，對嗎？這是 LCR 上的一個。

LDR is important, right? We do want to ensure that the mix of funding moves more towards deposits. So LDR is important from that sense. And if you see, currently 110%. Then if you look at where can this go. Where can this LDR go? You look at our LDR prior to merger, it's very important, right, a recent discussion that is developing. Prior to merger, our LDR was at 85%, right? Then now it's at 110%. And if you remove the merger effect of the assets and the deposits on this, the LDR is more like a 89%.

LDR很重要，對嗎？我們確實希望確保資金組合更多地轉向存款。所以從這個意義上來說，LDR 很重要。如果你看到的話，目前是 110%。然後如果你看看這會去哪裡。這個LDR能去哪裡呢？你看看我們合併前的 LDR，這非常重要，對吧，最近正在進行的討論。合併之前，我們的LDR是85%，對吧？然後現在是110%。而如果剔除資產和存款的合併效應，LDR 更像是 89%。

And if you look at our historical range of what the bank has operated LDR over a long period of time, around that 85%, 87% that's kind of a range that's where we operated, historically, if you think about our LDR, that's where we operated. So the -- and today, if you strip out the merger effect, it's about 89%. So essentially, the LDR is a function of what has happened on the merger. It's about 2 quarters run on the merger, which we have run through 2 quarters, and we do have a kind of a path where we do want to replace borrowings with deposits and grow further loans with the deposits. That's the kind of a thought process. And so you should expect the LDR to go down progressively over several quarters to come.

如果你看看我們銀行在很長一段時間內操作LDR的歷史範圍，大約是85%、87%，這就是我們營運的範圍，從歷史上看，如果你考慮我們的LDR，那就是我們經營。所以，今天，如果剔除合併效應，這個比例約為 89%。因此，從本質上講，LDR 是合併時發生的情況的函數。合併大約需要兩個季度，我們已經進行了兩個季度，我們確實有一種路徑，我們確實希望用存款代替借款，並用存款進一步增加貸款。這就是一種思考過程。因此，您應該預期 LDR 將在未來幾季逐步下降。

Yes. The reason why I asked this question also, Srini, is because we've bottomed out on LCR and we can't really go down any further. LDR is clearly elevated. So clearly, loan growth outlook and the visibility there on is looking a little difficult given the environment that we are in. So what do we prioritize, growth or margins? Regardless, growth and clearly, the loan growth has to come off for us to start bringing these ratios to a more acceptable range. Or if you have to grow, then margins (inaudible) off because you'll have to offer the increase in deposit rates further. So how are you trying to balance the 2?

是的。 Srini，我之所以問這個問題，是因為我們的 LCR 已經觸底，我們不能再進一步下跌了。 LDR明顯升高。很明顯，考慮到我們所處的環境，貸款成長前景和可見度看起來有點困難。那麼我們優先考慮什麼，成長還是利潤？無論如何，成長，顯然，貸款成長必須結束，我們才能開始將這些比率調整到更可接受的範圍。或者，如果您必須成長，那麼利潤率（聽不清楚）就會減少，因為您將不得不進一步提高存款利率。那麼你如何平衡兩者呢？

Okay. So I do want to mention one thing, right? We are not caught up, and we are not into one level of rate of growth as such, right? If you look at our rate of growth, there are sometimes we are slower, sometimes we are faster. But all we have done is that over a period of time, we have always doubled in every 4 to 5 years. That's what we have done, right? Quarter or even a year can be different. But over a period of time, that is what we have done. So growth is not something that we are (inaudible) this is the rate of growth that we want. Over a period of time, we want to because that's the investment we have done, we need to harvest returns on those.

好的。所以我確實想提一件事，對吧？我們沒有被趕上，我們也沒有陷入這樣一種水準的成長率，對吧？如果你看看我們的成長速度，有時我們會慢一些，有時我們會快一點。但我們所做的就是，在一段時間內，我們總是每4到5年就會翻一番。這就是我們所做的，對吧？一個季度甚至一年可能會有所不同。但在一段時間內，這就是我們所做的。所以成長不是我們現在的樣子（聽不清楚），而是我們想要的成長率。在一段時間內，我們希望因為這是我們所做的投資而獲得回報。

So we are focused on returns. So that takes you to the margin, right, would you focus on margin or growth. We certainly do not want growth for the sake of growth. If you look at our wholesale growth, we had 1.9% in the quarter. Enough demand was there. There were several banks undercutting and taking, and we'll let that move on, right? We don't need to be participating if it does not give returns, we don't want to be there. And so that's something that we are focused on. We want to do the products that are going to give us the returns.

所以我們專注於回報。因此，這會將您帶到利潤率，對吧，您會專注於利潤率還是成長。我們當然不希望為了成長而成長。如果你看一下我們的批發成長，你會發現本季我們的批發成長為 1.9%。那裡有足夠的需求。有幾家銀行進行低價收購，我們會讓這種情況繼續下去，對嗎？如果沒有回報，我們就不需要參與，我們不想在那裡。這就是我們關注的重點。我們希望生產能為我們帶來回報的產品。

Now on the margin, very important that you talked about the margin. Margin is important, but the first passing is about the returns. What does it give from an overall ROA point of view. That's first part. Then it comes because when you do a product pricing or a product charge to do to a customer, you're looking at returns more than the margins as such. Margins to the extent that the mix appropriately gets calibrated, the margins -- for us, we have never had this margin conversation because our mix has been predominantly retail and the retail rate of growth over a decade, if you see, has always outstripped the wholesale.

現在關於邊緣，非常重要的是你談到了邊緣。保證金很重要，但首先要考慮的是回報。從整體 ROA 的角度來看，它給了什麼？這是第一部分。然後它就出現了，因為當你對客戶進行產品定價或產品收費時，你關注的是回報而不是利潤。在適當調整組合的情況下，利潤率——對我們來說，我們從未進行過這種利潤率對話，因為我們的組合主要是零售業，如果你看到的話，十年來零售業的增長率總是超過批發的。

So there was not a necessity. There was no conversation about any margin because it comes with a hefty margin. And it comes with a credit cost also. And our credit cost is at a very benign state of sub-50 basis points right now. And if you look at our credit cost, adjusted for the mortgages, you'll see that the mortgages because of the denominator in the lower loss rates, the -- when credit cost, what does the mean on the credit cost, call it 70, 80 basis points that's the mean and pre-mortgage merger 100, 110 basis points. So what we -- what -- due to the mix change that has impacted the margin that has come through in the credit cost line. So certainly, we are focused on profitable growth. But I hope that answers you in some manner that you are trying to seek.

所以沒有必要。沒有討論任何利潤，因為它有很高的利潤。它還帶有信用成本。我們的信貸成本目前處於低於 50 個基點的非常良性狀態。如果你看看我們的信貸成本，根據抵押貸款進行調整，你會發現抵押貸款因為分母的損失率較低，當信貸成本時，信貸成本的意思是什麼，稱之為 70 , 80 個基點，這是抵押貸款合併前100, 110 個基點的平均值。那麼我們——什麼——由於組合變化影響了信貸成本線中的利潤。因此，我們當然專注於獲利成長。但我希望能以您想要尋求的某種方式回答您。

Just 2 small questions. The branches, you said this year maybe 1,000. So is this a new trajectory that we're looking at? Or you'll go back to 1,500 or thereabouts in the following years?

只是2個小問題。分支機構，你說今年可能有1000個。那麼這是我們正在尋找的新軌跡嗎？或者在接下來的幾年裡你會回到 1,500 左右？

See, again, I'll tell you one other constraint that we are also working through on the branches with this URC. This URC is something that is required, right? The mix between the unbanked rural center and so on. Selecting that availability. What is that URC that is available so that we are able to get that mix appropriately. So there is a targeted percentage with a regulatory target on URC that is more internally we would do, but we need to have a mix between the URC and the non-URC so that we can grow progressively across in a balanced manner within the regulatory approval. So that is what it is.

再一次，我將告訴您我們也在使用此 URC 的分支上解決的另一個約束。這個URC是必須的吧？無銀行帳戶的農村中心等之間的混合。選擇該可用性。可用的 URC 是什麼，以便我們能夠適當地獲得該組合。因此，我們會在內部製定一個針對 URC 的監管目標百分比，但我們需要將 URC 和非 URC 混合起來，以便我們能夠在監管批准範圍內以平衡的方式逐步發展。 。就是這樣。

So if you look at whether we go back to 1,500, I think Sashi has alluded to that over a period of time, we do want to get to the 13,000, 14,000 type of branches, not just for the sake of branches. It is the geographical presence that we can have so we can tap into the pockets of both the deposits and lending opportunity in that area. So it's not just deposit, deposits and also the lending opportunity in the area. So we would be there, but there is no hard kind of -- we're not going to push ahead with only one number. But currently, this is what we are seeing.

因此，如果你看看我們是否會回到 1,500 個分支機構，我認為 Sashi 在一段時間內已經提到過，我們確實希望達到 13,000 個、14,000 個分支機構，而不僅僅是為了分支機構。我們可以擁有地理存在，這樣我們就可以利用該地區的存款和貸款機會。因此，這不僅僅是存款，還有該地區的貸款機會。所以我們會在那裡，但沒有什麼困難——我們不會只用一個數字來推進。但目前，這就是我們所看到的。

I will be very generous with your time. Just a small question on the infra bonds. So you raised some money in the last quarter, I think INR 7,000 crores, INR 7,500 crores. Do you have eligible assets even sitting on the balance sheet against which you can keep raising this infra bonds? And how much would that be?

我會非常慷慨地安排您的時間。只是一個關於基礎設施債券的小問題。所以你在上個季度籌集了一些資金，我認為是 700 億印度盧比，750 億印度盧比。您的資產負債表上是否擁有可以繼續籌集此類基礎債券的合格資產？那是多少？

We have eligible assets close to INR 1 trillion, as I mentioned. So that's part of -- which is -- it can have a qualification in the sense that you may have PSL benefits because we will take it off the top line to the extent that you're able to tack the bond and the affordable housing. And you will get the other benefits that I mentioned that the cost on the PSLC or the deposit insurance, those things are obviated. But still, any day, we need CASA. But to the extent that there are time deposits, the economics is better than even -- slightly better than the term deposits due to these. Yes, there are enough asset room, if that's the question, do we have enough assets on the asset side to face off against these infra bonds, yes.

正如我所提到的，我們擁有接近 1 兆印度盧比的合格資產。因此，這是它的一部分，也就是說，它可以具有資格，即您可能享有 PSL 福利，因為我們會將其從頂線中扣除，只要您能夠解決債券和經濟適用房的問題。您將獲得我提到的其他好處，即 PSLC 或存款保險的費用，這些事情都被消除了。但無論何時，我們都需要 CASA。但就定期存款而言，其經濟效益甚至比定期存款還要好——因此略好於定期存款。是的，有足夠的資產空間，如果這是問題的話，我們在資產方面是否有足夠的資產來對抗這些基礎債券，是的。

Next question is from the line of Kunal Shah from Citi Group.

下一個問題來自花旗集團的 Kunal Shah。

So given that the overall liquidity is tight plus the deposit traction all said and done this quarter has not been very encouraging. So when do we see in terms of tweaking the rates, given that now at least the repo rates have sustained, would we ever look at raising deposit rates beyond 7.2% just to make sure that we are on our target to get the deposits and at least sustain the growth momentum even on the asset side. So will there be a thought -- no doubt, you have earlier said that we will look at branch expansion that's going pretty slow. Even in terms of like activation of the field force still not that great response. So at what time do we look at tweaking the rates just to ensure the deposit traction is what we were envisaging earlier, yes?

因此，考慮到整體流動性緊張，加上存款牽引力，本季所說和所做的一切都不是很令人鼓舞。因此，考慮到現在至少回購利率已經持續，我們什麼時候會考慮調整利率，我們是否會考慮將存款利率提高到 7.2% 以上，以確保我們達到獲得存款的目標，並在即使在資產端，也最難維持成長動能。那麼是否會有一個想法——毫無疑問，您之前說過我們將考慮進展相當緩慢的分支機構擴張。即使就類似激活場力而言，仍然沒有那麼大的反應。那麼我們什麼時候考慮調整利率以確保存款牽引力達到我們先前的設想，對嗎？

Okay. See, deposit pricing is not a tool that we are having in our sales and relationship process, which means it is not a driver. The conversation would never go to say, I'm the best price deposits, come here. It's not a conversation because that's how -- if you look at some of the comparative pricing on our deposits with our peers, we are more or less in that line, right, with our top peers, that's the kind of a pricing that we are positioned to. So we're not trying to differentiate on the pricing. We're trying to differentiate on other offering features. That's one on that.

好的。看，存款定價不是我們在銷售和關係流程中擁有的工具，這意味著它不是驅動因素。談話時絕對不會去說，我是最好的價格存款，來這裡。這不是一場對話，因為這就是——如果你看一下我們與同行的存款比較定價，我們或多或少與我們的頂級同行保持一致，這就是我們的定價方式定位到。因此，我們不會試圖在定價上進行差異化。我們正在嘗試在其他產品功能上實現差異化。這就是其中之一。

Second, in terms of the market share, you touched upon the growth rate and the market share. I do want to allude to say that we do believe that on an incremental basis, 18%, 20% market share, we do garner, right? That's part of the -- whatever is the size that we have got, whatever is the level at which we are growing, we continue to maintain that superior rate of growth to the market, gaining market share on an incremental basis, getting that in the high teens to 20 type of incremental market share. Rates are not a play. And that is part of the reason why the non-retail deposits degrew by 3.3% in this quarter.

第二，關於市場份額，您提到了成長率和市場份額。我確實想說，我們確實相信，在增量的基礎上，我們確實會獲得 18%、20% 的市場份額，對吧？這是一部分——無論我們的規模有多大，無論我們的成長水平如何，我們都將繼續保持優於市場的成長率，逐步獲得市場份額，進入市場。高十幾到二十類型的增量市場份額。利率不是鬧著玩的。這也是本季非零售存款下降 3.3% 的部分原因。

Yes. Okay. And secondly, with respect to tax write-back. So last time when there was a write-back, you indicated that maybe it might not repeat and we should see it normalizing towards 25-odd percent. But that benefit is still continuing. So if you can highlight in terms of, is it expected to continue what is leading -- actually leading to this kind of -- or maybe a lower tax rate, I would say? Or may this is like the investment gains, which have been there. It's on that if you can just highlight that, yes.

是的。好的。其次，關於稅收減免。因此，上次回寫時，您表示可能不會重複，我們應該會看到它正常化到 25% 左右。但這種好處仍在持續。因此，如果你可以強調一下，我想說的是，預計會繼續領先的情況——實際上會導致這種情況——或者可能會降低稅率？或者這可能就像投資收益一樣，已經存在了。如果你能強調這一點，那就是這一點，是的。

The tax benefits that we booked in are consequent to 2 things. One, there were certain favorable orders received relating to eHDFC Limited past assessment. So that's one. And two, there were some favorable orders received relating to the bank for the past year. So that is based on those assessments, determine that the portions are no longer required. That's -- and it depends on time to time. And there is no such kind of a routine timing that I can predict when these orders come and when we get done. But yes, these are episodic from that sense. We receive favorable orders, the assets and we take it. And in this quarter, we have had 2 of them like that, yes.

我們預訂的稅收優惠有兩件事造成。第一，收到了與 eHDFC Limited 過去評估相關的某些有利訂單。這就是其中之一。第二，去年收到了一些與銀行有關的有利訂單。因此，根據這些評估，確定不再需要這些部分。這取決於時間。而且沒有一種例行的時間安排可以讓我預測這些訂單何時到來以及我們何時完成。但是，是的，從這個意義上來說，這些都是偶然的。我們收到有利的訂單、資產並接受它。是的，在本季度，我們已經出現了兩次這樣的情況。

Okay. So all orders which have been received, which have been favorable, they are more or less accounted for now and (inaudible) spend?

好的。那麼，所有已收到的、有利的訂單，現在都或多或少地被考慮在內並且（聽不清楚）支出？

More or less.

或多或少。

Okay. And lastly, if you can highlight in terms of the maturity of the borrowing, HDFC Limited borrowing over next 1 year, which is falling due, okay? And any quarter, we would see any kind of volatility in that maturity?

好的。最後，如果您能強調借款的到期日，HDFC Limited 未來一年的借款即將到期，好嗎？任何一個季度，我們都會看到該到期日出現任何形式的波動？

Maturity profile is 20,000, 25,000. There is no big maturity at least over the next 2 to 4 quarters. It is unevenly there. There's not a spike of INR 1 trillion going away in a quarter or INR 0.5 trillion going away in a quarter that kind of profile. And I think annually, we do publish the profile of those, and you should soon get to see that, yes.

到期日為 20,000、25,000。至少在接下來的 2 到 4 個季度內不會出現大的成熟。那裡不均勻。不會出現一個季度內消失 1 兆印度盧比或一個季度消失 0.5 兆印度盧比的情況。我認為每年我們都會發布這些人的簡介，你應該很快就會看到，是的。

Next question is from the line of Chintan Joshi from Bernstein.

下一個問題來自伯恩斯坦的 Chintan Joshi。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes, Chintan. Go ahead.

是的，金坦。前進。

So can I go back to the LD ratio discussion? What I'm hearing from you is that it does need to come down, but also growth will remain intact. So I'm trying to square the circle, how -- like the only way LD ratios improves is if you grow deposits faster than lending. Is that what we should expect by FY '25? And the pace of that, if you can talk about -- do you have some target in mind? Or do you look at market conditions and do your best? How should we think about this?

那我可以回到 LD 比率的討論嗎？我從你那裡聽到的是，它確實需要下降，但成長也將保持不變。因此，我正試圖化圓為方，就像改善 LD 比率的唯一方法是存款成長速度快於貸款成長速度。這是我們 25 財年該期待的嗎？如果您能談談的話，您心中是否有一些目標？還是你會觀察市場狀況並盡力而為？我們該如何思考這個問題？

Thank you. One thing I do want to mention is that the growth rate -- sustainability of the growth rate is not irrespective of what the CD ratio is. CD ratio has to improve, right? As I mentioned, typically, we have been in that mid-80s to high 80s. The merger took it to where it is today, past the 100%. And over a period of time, we do need to bring it down. So we can't keep the CD ratio to be growing all the time. That's not a proposition that we are envisaging. So that takes the second part of what you asked in terms of the deposit growth and how you should think about the rate of growth. Yes, we do envisage that the deposit rate of growth should outpace the loan rate of growth. And for the CD ratio to progressively come in and for the economics to work, the deposit rate of growth should be at least 300, 400 basis points higher than the loan growth, only then the economics will work better. So yes, that is kind of a thought process that we have.

謝謝。我確實想提的一件事是，成長率——成長率的可持續性與CD比率是多少無關。 CD比率必須提高，對吧？正如我所提到的，我們通常處於 80 年代中期到 80 年代中期。此次合併使其達到了今天的水平，超過了 100%。在一段時間內，我們確實需要將其降低。所以我們不能讓CD比率一直成長。這不是我們正在設想的一個提議。這就是您所問的第二部分，即存款成長以及您應該如何考慮成長率。是的，我們確實預期存款成長率應該超過貸款成長率。而為了讓存款準備率逐步進入，讓經濟發揮作用，存款成長至少要高於貸款成長300、400個基點，這樣經濟才會更好。所以，是的，這就是我們的思考過程。

Sir, the other question I have is on borrowings and debt securities. If I look at HDFC Limited balance sheet as of FY '23, there was about INR 1.7 trillion that was going to mature over the next year as of FY '23. However, we have not seen that mature. If anything, borrowings have gone higher today than the pro forma combined FY '23 balance sheets. Is this -- what was the thinking behind this? Because one way of looking at this is there was an opportunity to reduce borrowing, but it was not taken because there was profitable lending growth out there. Is that the way you thought about it? Or if you can explain that thinking would be helpful.

主席先生，我的另一個問題是關於借款和債務證券的。如果我查看截至 23 財年的 HDFC Limited 資產負債表，截至 23 財年，大約有 1.7 兆印度盧比將在明年到期。然而，我們還沒有看到那麼成熟。如果有什麼不同的話，那就是今天的借款已經高於 23 財年預計資產負債表的總和。這背後的想法是什麼？因為看待這個問題的一種方式是，有一個減少借款的機會，但由於有有利可圖的貸款成長，所以沒有採取這種機會。你也是這麼想的嗎？或者如果你能解釋一下這種思考會很有幫助。

Okay. See, in this time period, now 2 quarters have gone by after the merger. And the borrowings have remained or actually gone up in this quarter by almost INR 209 billion it has gone up, out of which about 7,500 is infra bonds, which economics work well, we have taken that. The rest are either market borrowings or other treasury-related actions, right? So it is only one item which is the infra bond, which is the borrowing as such that has gone up. The rest are market-related activities, which are there, right, in that borrowing.

好的。看，這個時間段，合併後已經過了兩個季度了。本季的借款仍然或實際上增加了近 2,090 億印度盧比，其中約 7,500 是基礎債券，我們已經採取了這一點，這在經濟上運作良好。其餘的要不是市場借款，就是其他與財務相關的行為，對吧？因此，只有一項是基礎債券，即藉款本身增加了。其餘的都是與市場相關的活動，這些活動就存在於借貸中。

The other aspect of it is that should you expect this to go down at the maturity, I think another person was asking about the maturity itself over the next several quarters. Yes, there are maturities coming, and we envisage to the extent that economics work, we will have a similar replacement. If not, it has to be replaced by deposits. And that is part of how the rate of growth of deposits need to outpace the loan growth. Otherwise, we will not be able to keep up with the loan rate of growth.

另一方面是，如果您期望到期時這一數字會下降，我認為另一個人正在詢問未來幾季的到期日本身。是的，到期日即將到來，我們預計，只要經濟有效，我們就會有類似的替代品。如果沒有，就必須用存款來代替。這就是存款成長率需要超過貸款成長率的部分原因。否則，我們將無法跟上貸款的成長速度。

Understood. And finally, on the CRB business, which is growing really fast. What is the overall lending yield of the CRB loan book so that we can understand what is the mix impact on the overall lending yield from the CRB given that it's growing so fast?

明白了。最後，關於 CRB 業務，該業務成長非常快。 CRB貸款帳簿的整體貸款收益率是多少，以便我們可以了解，鑑於CRB增長如此之快，對整體貸款收益率的綜合影響是什麼？

Okay. The CRB yield comes in about between 9% to 11%, depending on product. There are certain products that go above that. There are certain products which are around that 8.5%, 9%. But on an average, it's slightly above 9% type of yield at an aggregate level. But there are several products, as you know, within the CRB segment from business banking to emerging corporates to agriculture loans to SLI loans to the commercial vehicle and so on and so forth. So it's a different price point. But on an aggregate average, if you look at it, it's north of 9%.

好的。 CRB 產量約為 9% 至 11%，視產品而定。有些產品超出了這個範圍。有些產品的比例在8.5%、9%左右。但平均而言，整體收益率略高於 9%。但如您所知，CRB 領域有多種產品，從商業銀行業務到新興企業、農業貸款、SLI 貸款、商業車輛等等。所以這是一個不同的價位。但從整體平均來看，你會發現它超過了 9%。

So it is in line with the overall group lending yields. It's not above the average of the balance sheet, it is in line with it.

因此，它與整體團體貸款收益率一致。它並不高於資產負債表的平均水平，而是與其一致。

It's a good assumption. Yes, it is not above the average. It is at that level, not dragging the overall average down as such in any meaningful manner, yes.

這是一個很好的假設。是的，它並不高於平均水平。是的，就在這個水平上，並沒有以任何有意義的方式拖累整體平均水平。

Next question is from the line of Nitin Aggarwal from Motilal Oswal.

下一個問題來自 Motilal Oswal 的 Nitin Aggarwal。

Srini, 2, 3 quick questions. One is on the Bandhan Bank stake sale that has happened in this quarter. So if you can quantify the gains on the sale, how much has flown in this quarter from that?

Srini，2、3 個快速問題。其中之一是本季發生的 Bandhan 銀行股權出售。那麼，如果您可以量化出售的收益，那麼本季的收益是多少？

See, I talked about that INR 15 billion or so on the overall, I mentioned. So not necessarily -- I won't talk about any individual particular item, right, but from an overall point of view, I did talk about the mark-to-market and trading treasury investment portfolio income INR 14.7 billion, INR 15 billion, right, which is there.

你看，我提到過，總體而言，我談到了 150 億印度盧比左右。所以不一定——我不會談論任何個別的特定項目，對吧，但從整體角度來看，我確實談論了按市值計價和交易國庫投資組合收入147億印度盧比、150億印度盧比，對了，就在那裡。

Right. So this is included in the total, but you're not like giving the separate number for that.

正確的。因此，這已包含在總數中，但您不想為此提供單獨的數字。

It is included. Yes.

它包含在內。是的。

Okay. And secondly, on the Credila, have you booked the gains in this quarter or it will come in 4Q? Like how are you looking at that?

好的。其次，關於 Credila，您是否已經預訂了本季的收益，或將在第四季度實現？例如你怎麼看這個？

Okay. No, Credila, nothing has been booked in the December quarter. We are waiting for regulatory clearance before the transaction can close. So we are working through -- or the potential purchaser is working through certain things to provide. And we are hopeful to close soon, but there is no particular concrete time that I can give, right? They have to go through approval process before it can conclude.

好的。不，Credila，十二月季度沒有任何預訂。在交易完成之前，我們正在等待監管機構的批准。所以我們正在努力解決——或者潛在的購買者正在努力提供某些東西。我們希望很快就能結束，但我無法給出具體的時間，對吧？他們必須經過批准程序才能結束。

Okay. And lastly, on contingent provisions. This quarter, we have made INR 1,200-odd crores of contingent. So any particular levels you want to reach or is it just like the flowback of the excess gains that we are having right now that we are using that? So any thoughts around how do we look at this contingent provision number?

好的。最後，關於或有條款。本季度，我們的團隊收入達 120 億盧比。那麼您想要達到的任何特定水平還是就像我們現在正在使用的超額收益的回流一樣？那麼對於我們如何看待這個或有準備金數字有什麼想法嗎？

Okay. See, the contingent provision that we built in the quarter, INR 12.2 billion, we attributed on a prudent basis towards the AIF, right? There is RBI regulation to account for and look at AIF in a specific manner. So we took the chance to say on a prudent basis, we need to provide, and so we did build a contingent provision against this. As I mentioned, the fair value of the AIF is almost INR 5 billion more than the carrying book value, but we made 100% provision on a prudent basis. So again, we evaluate this quarter-to-quarter. But that's the process, that's a regimented process to look at it quarter-to-quarter. There is no such targeted level of build or release that we have. We will assess it every quarter and certainly at every year-end.

好的。看，我們在本季度建立的或有準備金 122 億印度盧比，我們在審慎的基礎上計入了 AIF，對吧？印度儲備銀行（RBI）監管以特定方式解釋和看待 AIF。因此，我們藉此機會謹慎地說，我們需要提供，因此我們確實為此制定了一項或有準備金。正如我所提到的，AIF 的公允價值比帳面價值高出近 50 億盧比，但我們謹慎地提列了 100% 撥備。因此，我們再次按季度進行評估。但這就是這個過程，這是一個按季度進行審視的嚴格流程。我們沒有這樣的目標建置或發布層級。我們每季都會評估一次，當然每年年底也會評估一次。

Next question is from the line of Abhishek Murarka from HSBC.

下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Abhishek Murarka。

Okay. So one question is on the unsecured loans. So after the RBI circular on risk-weighted assets and all. So there's much that has been happening NBFC as well. What is your approach? So part one, what is your approach to unsecured loans, especially personal loans? Will that slow down? If yes, when you were talking earlier about bringing up the yield on nonmortgage retail assets, how does that affect that strategy? And second, on NBFCs, again, what's the approach? Will you limit the percentage mix? Or will you sort of limit the absolute exposure? How do you plan to move ahead?

好的。因此，有一個問題是關於無擔保貸款的。因此，在印度央行發布有關風險加權資產的通知之後。 NBFC 也發生了很多事情。你的方法是什麼？那麼第一部分，你們對無擔保貸款，特別是個人貸款的態度是什麼？那會減慢嗎？如果是，當您之前談論提高非抵押零售資產的收益率時，這對該策略有何影響？其次，關於非銀行金融機構，又是什麼方法？你會限制比例混合嗎？或者你會限制絕對曝光嗎？您打算如何繼續前進？

Okay. Yes. Let's look at the retail unsecured that you alluded to. See, the retail unsecured is extremely profitable product, and we like it. And it has to go through our credit filter. And we've been in that for a long time. And one of the best scorecards we believe we have that. If you look at the delinquency profile on that, it's fantastic. The delinquency profile, the NPA profile is better than the secured book that we have. So we like it. There are times it gets calibrated up and down, and we are confident of growing the book. And let me tell you one important thing on that unsecured as such. Premerger, on the retail book, our unsecured component was 41%. Postmerger, it is about 22%. So if anything, we created more kind of a runway for faster growth.

好的。是的。讓我們看看您提到的零售無擔保。看，無擔保零售是利潤極高的產品，我們喜歡它。它必須經過我們的信用過濾器。我們已經這樣做很久了。我們相信我們擁有最好的記分卡之一。如果你看看這方面的犯罪概況，那就太棒了。拖欠情況、NPA 情況都比我們擁有的擔保書好。所以我們喜歡它。有時它會被上下調整，我們有信心不斷發展這本書。讓我告訴你一件關於無擔保的重要事情。合併前，在零售帳面上，我們的無擔保部分為 41%。合併後，約為22%。因此，如果有什麼不同的話，那就是我們為更快的成長創造了更多的跑道。

But when we say faster growth, we are not talking about something that is a 25%, 30% thereabouts kind of rate of growth. For us, faster growth is to go into high teens to 20% type of rate of growth. That's what we have had in the past. That's why I'm more than telling you what we will do and trying to tell you what we have done. And we think that, that is what we will do rather than do something new about it. So we have enough headroom, enough runway and opportunity on that. It's an extremely profitable product. So that's something to keep in mind on the unsecured.

但當我們說更快的成長時，我們並不是談論 25%、30% 左右的成長率。對我們來說，更快的成長是進入十幾歲至 20% 的成長率。這就是我們過去的經歷。這就是為什麼我不僅告訴你們我們將做什麼，而且試圖告訴你們我們已經做了什麼。我們認為，這就是我們要做的，而不是做一些新的事情。所以我們有足夠的空間、足夠的跑道和機會。這是一種利潤極為豐厚的產品。因此，對於無擔保的人來說，這是要記住的事情。

NBFC, see, our approach to NBFC has always been one for lending, we do want that. For corporate houses, part of various NBFCs affiliated to corporate houses, something that we work with because that's a much broader relationship across the corporate group that we have. So that is quite profitable, and we like it and we work through that. One thing that I do want to mention is that, yes, the risk weights do add in terms of the capital that is required for it. Irrespective of that, we look at the profitability. They are quite highly profitable at the enhanced risk weight, both ROA or ROE that you see, and we like to go with that.

NBFC，看，我們對 NBFC 的態度一直是貸款，我們確實希望如此。對於法人團體來說，是隸屬於法人團體的各種非銀行金融公司的一部分，我們與之合作，因為這是我們在整個企業集團中擁有的更廣泛的關係。所以這是非常有利可圖的，我們喜歡它並且我們會努力解決這個問題。我確實想提的一件事是，是的，風險權重確實增加了所需的資本。不管怎樣，我們都會關注獲利能力。在提高風險權重（您看到的資產回報率或淨資產收益率）的情況下，它們的利潤相當高，我們喜歡這樣做。

So there will be no sort of approach to limit the, let's say, percentage of overall exposure to NBFCs in light of whatever nudges have come from the regulator, or caution, let's say, that would have come?

因此，無論監理機關採取何種措施，都不會採取某種方法來限制非銀行金融機構整體風險敞口的百分比，或者說，會出現什麼警告？

Correct. The way to think about it is that where it is to be directed lending, which is priority sector is #1 preference, right? And by the way, some of our NBFCs are government-sponsored NBFCs, right? So -- and they're not into consumer lending at all. And so I do want to distinguish. Of course, the circular does not distinguish between different categories of NBFCs. So our NBFC does not necessarily need to be lending only to consumers or of segmentation, which is lower than the bank-targeted segmentation for lending, no. NBFCs are also government-sponsored, government-linked NBFCs are there, where we have a good relationship with them.

正確的。思考這個問題的方法是，定向貸款的方向是優先部門，是第一優先，對吧？順便說一句，我們的一些 NBFC 是政府資助的 NBFC，對吧？所以——他們根本不參與消費貸款。所以我確實想區分。當然，通知並沒有區分不同類別的非銀行金融機構。因此，我們的NBFC不一定需要只向消費者提供貸款或進行細分，這低於銀行針對貸款的細分，不是。 NBFC 也是政府資助的、與政府有聯繫的 NBFC，我們與他們有良好的關係。

Okay. And just another one on the cross-sell. At the time of the merger, we were talking about how you benefit from cross-selling your products to the customers who are coming to the fold. How do we track that? And when do we start seeing those cross-sell benefits, either in terms of high retail fee or can you start disclosing some sort of cross-sell metrics? So how do we track whether that's really accruing or it's taking time?

好的。這只是交叉銷售的另一項。在合併時，我們正在討論如何從向即將加入的客戶交叉銷售產品中獲益。我們如何追蹤它？我們什麼時候開始看到這些交叉銷售的好處，無論是高零售費還是您可以開始揭露某種交叉銷售指標？那我們要如何追蹤這是否是真正的累積還是需要時間呢？

Very good. Thanks, you touched upon that. I'll touch you -- I'll give you one and I'll tell you 2, 3 things that we will start to publish and show it to you. One is that, we said we want savings accounts. That's one, because we want to offer the bank not just a mortgage product. So if you look at one month, the last month, the December. In October, we showed to the broader world in terms of how various digital approach that we have taken to offering this bundling of products. Savings account is an important part of the product suite that we offer.

非常好。謝謝，你談到了這一點。我會觸摸你——我會給你一個，然後我會告訴你 2、3 件事，我們將開始發布並向你展示。一是，我們說我們想要儲蓄帳戶。這就是其中之一，因為我們想向銀行提供的不僅僅是抵押貸款產品。因此，如果你看一個月，最後一個月，即 12 月。十月，我們向更廣闊的世界展示了我們如何採用各種數位方法來提供這種捆綁產品。儲蓄帳戶是我們提供的產品套件的重要組成部分。

Among the disbursals that we had, in 1 month, if you take 40,000-plus disbursals, first disbursals because I'm not counting for the disbursals which are ongoing, right, second installment, third installment, leave that to the side. On the first disbursals that have happened in the month -- in December, roughly half-half existing to bank and new to bank, half-half of that. Among that half, which is the new bank, almost 65% of them we have penetrated with the savings deposit. So we've gone with the 65% penetration to start with, right? I'm talking about the December, where we are. And that penetration comes with the deposit balance, at least 1 to 2 months of EMI, which is INR 30,000 to INR 35,000 on an average we have taken from the customer base where we have opened.

在我們的支出中，在1個月內，如果你拿40,000多筆支出，第一筆支出，因為我沒有計算正在進行的支出，對吧，第二筆，第三筆，放在一邊。在 12 月發生的第一筆付款中，大約有一半是銀行現有的，而新銀行的一半是其中的一半。其中一半是新銀行，其中近65%我們已經透過儲蓄存款滲透了。所以我們一開始就設定了 65% 的滲透率，對吧？我說的是我們現在所處的十二月。這種滲透率伴隨著存款餘額，至少 1 到 2 個月的 EMI，我們從我們開設的客戶群中獲得的平均金額為 30,000 印度盧比到 35,000 印度盧比。

So we'll publish this. So one is savings account as a product and what is the penetration on that. That's number one. And I give you an example of 65% of new to bank, first disbursals, we have had that, and we want to take it to 90, 95, 99. We will keep tracking and reporting that. The second one is the credit cards. We're just beginning on that one, we will report on that as a product in terms of how we are offering credit cards. The third is consumer durable. Consumer durable, again, one is the offer.

所以我們會發布這個。儲蓄帳戶作為一種產品，其滲透率是多少。這是第一名。我舉了一個例子，65% 的新銀行首次付款，我們已經有過這樣的情況，我們希望將其提高到 90%、95%、99%。我們將繼續追蹤和報告這一情況。第二個是信用卡。我們才剛開始，我們將根據我們提供信用卡的方式將其作為產品進行報告。三是耐久性消費品。耐用消費品，其中之一就是報價。

The second one is a drawdown because the customer will not -- we will make that offer on the consumer durable, customer will drawdown a month or a quarter or 6 months later as the house is ready for the person to move in and do. So -- and then over a period of time, we will bring in the other products. So insurance also is something that we'll start to disclose to see the penetration of -- penetration level of insurance. The things like the demat account and the mutual funds and those sort of things, over a period of time, we will come with that. But there are 9 products that we will come up with, out of which 3 are digitally enabled. The rest will be soon, and we will start to report them and show it to you.

第二個是提款，因為客戶不會——我們將針對耐用消費品提供報價，客戶將在一個月、一個季度或六個月後提款，因為房子已經準備好供人們搬進去做。所以——然後在一段時間內，我們將引入其他產品。因此，我們將開始揭露保險，以了解保險的滲透率等級。像是 demat 帳戶和共同基金之類的東西，在一段時間內，我們會隨之而來。但我們將推出 9 款產品，其中 3 款是數位化的。剩下的很快就會開始，我們將開始報告並展示給您。

Sure. Really had to get some more granularities because that will help us figure out how the cross-sell effort is going.

當然。確實必須獲得更多的粒度，因為這將有助於我們弄清楚交叉銷售工作的進展。

Thank you. We will put up a page or 2 from next time and we will have that.

謝謝。下次我們會貼出一兩頁，我們就會有的。

Next question is from the line of Anand Bhavnani from White Oak Capital.

下一個問題來自 White Oak Capital 的 Anand Bhavnani。

I have a question on the consumer behavior. This has more to do with seeing revolve rates on credit card being much lower than pre-COVID levels. Similarly, on the current -- on the savings account side, the growth rate is weak. So, can one surmise that because of good apps available on mobile devices, consumers are now being very active and not giving in to the inertia on both the asset side, the credit cards, they are not revolving. They are just taking personal loan or something? And similarly on the liability side, the consumers are moving away their deposits to an account where they're getting 7%, 8%, whereas we are giving, let's say, 3.5%. So have you done any behavioral analysis on both assets as well as liability side to see how across the broad spectrum of your customers, is there any data to prove through these thesis?

我有一個關於消費者行為的問題。這更多是因為信用卡的循環利率遠低於新冠疫情前的水平。同樣，在目前儲蓄帳戶方面，成長率疲軟。因此，我們可以推測，由於行動裝置上有優秀的應用程序，消費者現在非常活躍，並且沒有屈服於資產方面的慣性，即信用卡，他們沒有循環。他們只是接受個人貸款還是其他什麼？同樣，在負債方面，消費者將存款轉移到一個帳戶，他們可以獲得 7%、8% 的利率，而我們給出的利率是 3.5%。那麼，您是否對資產和負債方面進行了任何行為分析，以了解在廣泛的客戶範圍內，是否有任何數據可以透過這些論文來證明？

See, in terms of the customers -- you touched upon the revolver. Thank you for touching that. See, the revolvers haven't grown. If anything, actually, in this quarter, we do -- we did see a slight reduction in revolver percentage, right? We're not seeing that. And in some other questions, I would allude to how card bunch of customers. Customers who have credit cards and savings accounts with us and you see their balances are 5x, little more than 5x -- 5.4x their balances is what they have in the deposit accounts. So that is also healthy. It was less than 4 3 years ago. Now it is 5.4. So it has grown. That's the second thing.

瞧，就顧客而言──你談到了左輪手槍。謝謝你的觸摸。看，左輪手槍還沒長出來。實際上，在本季度，我們確實看到左輪手槍百分比略有下降，對嗎？我們沒有看到這一點。在其他一些問題中，我會提到如何卡一群客戶。擁有我們信用卡和儲蓄帳戶的客戶，您會看到他們的餘額是存款帳戶餘額的 5 倍，略高於 5 倍——他們的餘額是存款帳戶餘額的 5.4 倍。所以這也是健康的。 3年前還不到4個。現在是5.4。所以它已經成長了。這是第二件事。

The third thing in terms of whether some of the digital properties are enabling, less use of card revolving and alternatives. See, in our customer segment, that's not something that we are seeing because it is more of -- the segment that we have chosen and working on is little more higher rate. That means a little higher score customers. I think we have talked about the revolver 1 to 3 months and 4 to 6 months and 6-plus months -- call it, 6-plus months revolvers. Across these 3 revolving categories, we are not seeing pickup happening. So that's part of the customer base, and that's part of the cash that they have, or some of them have got impacted through the COVID and come out of it and not survived and come through it and not indulging in any of these things.

第三件事是一些數位資產是否啟用，減少使用卡片循環和替代品。看，在我們的客戶群中，這不是我們所看到的，因為它更多的是——我們選擇並致力於的細分市場的利率更高一些。這意味著客戶得分更高一些。我想我們已經討論過 1 到 3 個月、4 到 6 個月和 6 個多月的左輪手槍——稱之為 6 個多月的左輪手槍。在這 3 個循環類別中，我們沒有看到回升的情況發生。所以這是客戶群的一部分，也是他們擁有的現金的一部分，或者他們中的一些人受到了新冠病毒的影響，但沒有倖存下來，也沒有沉迷於任何這些事情。

And some of them who do, take it for a short period of time, right? So that's the 1 to 3 months category if you see they take for some short personal loan or they don't want a 2-year or a 3-year or whatever the tenor personal loan, they want it for a short period of time, they don't mind taking it. So we do think that the category is very attractive and very nascent because you know that there are only kind of 90 million, 100 million credit cards in this country, and we would expect that to be north of 500 million. So we have enormous room to go.

他們中的一些人服用了很短一段時間，對嗎？因此，如果您看到他們申請一些短期個人貸款，或者他們不想要 2 年期或 3 年期或任何期限的個人貸款，他們想要短期個人貸款，那麼這就是 1 到 3 個月的類別，他們不介意接受它。所以我們確實認為這個類別非常有吸引力並且非常新生，因為你知道這個國家只有 9000 萬、1 億張信用卡，而我們預計這一數字將超過 5 億張。所以我們還有很大的發展空間。

The other aspect is that whether alternative payments UPI or anything, those kind of things or direct debit system, whether those things that would only increase the balances in the savings account. So somebody who is using UPI previously was drawing down cash and paying through.

另一個方面是，是否是替代支付 UPI 或任何東西，這些東西或直接借記系統，是否那些只會增加儲蓄帳戶餘額的東西。因此，之前使用 UPI 的人是提取現金並透過支付。

So the cash was going out of the bank. Now the cash is in the bank account and is using UPI. So it only enhances -- anybody using UPI only enhances balances in the account. So there are pluses and minuses across all of these. But at the end of the day, the customer segmentation that we are working with, we're confident that, that will bring in the balances and grow as the economy grows.

所以現金就從銀行流出了。現在現金已存入銀行帳戶並使用 UPI。因此，它只會增強——任何使用 UPI 的人只會增強帳戶餘額。因此，所有這些都有優點和缺點。但歸根結底，我們正在合作的客戶細分，我們相信，這將帶來平衡並隨著經濟的成長而成長。

Sure. But the question is whether the minuses are overwhelming the pluses because the account opening these days is less like an hour's affair and if a bank is offering 7%, 8%, and we are seeing these banks which are offering 7%, 8% are seeing very high growth rates on their liability side. So is it that the smart customers of yours are now using these properties and it's a structural change and hence, it will be a headwind to our deposit accretion targets?

當然。但問題是缺點是否會壓倒優點，因為如今開戶不再是一個小時的事情，如果一家銀行提供 7%、8%，而我們看到這些提供 7%、8% 的銀行看到其負債方面的增長率非常高。那麼，您的聰明客戶現在是否正在使用這些房產，這是一種結構性變化，因此，這將成為我們存款成長目標的阻力？

Okay. But there are 2 -- again 2 things I want to respond to. One is the -- if you look at us from a market share point of view, we have been gaining market share. Our market share is at about 10.5%, and it continues to grow. On an incremental basis, I think I alluded to our assessment is 18% to 20%. So that's -- we are keeping up with that. Yes, there may be some customers who go. But from our rate offering point of view, we offer -- you're talking about the savings account rate. But on a time savings account rate is what we offer, 3%, 3.5%.

好的。但有兩件事我想回應。一是——如果你從市場佔有率的角度來看我們，我們一直在獲得市場份額。我們的市佔率約為10.5%，並且持續成長。在增量的基礎上，我想我提到的我們的評估是 18% 到 20%。所以，我們正在跟上這一步伐。是的，可能有些顧客會去。但從我們提供的利率的角度來看，我們提供—您所說的是儲蓄帳戶利率。但我們提供的時間儲蓄帳戶利率是 3%、3.5%。

On the time deposit, we are more or less in line with the competition, significant peers. If you see, we are more or less in line with that on a time deposit rate point of view. From a savings account, yes, we do continue to. That doesn't mean somebody else cannot grow. We are growing. And think about it, still the public sector banks from where all of the private sector banks, including the ones that you alluded to offering 7% or 8% on savings account, those are all in the private segment -- private sector segment. And the market share there is coming from some public sector because all the private sector banks are gaining market share.

在定期存款方面，我們或多或少與競爭對手、同業保持一致。如果您看到的話，我們在定期存款利率的角度上或多或少是一致的。從儲蓄帳戶來看，是的，我們確實會繼續這樣做。這並不意味著其他人無法成長。我們正在成長。想一想，仍然是公共部門銀行，所有私部門銀行，包括您提到的提供 7% 或 8% 儲蓄帳戶的銀行，都屬於私營部門——私營部門部門。那裡的市場份額來自一些公共部門，因為所有私營部門銀行都在獲得市場份額。

Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Vaidyanathan for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

女士們、先生們，我們將把這個當作最後一個問題。現在我想將會議交給 Vaidyanathan 先生進行總結評論。交給你了，先生。

Okay. Thank you, Nirav. Thank you all for participating. We appreciate you dialing in at this hour. If any more questions, comments or clarifications required, please feel free to reach out to us. Our Investor Relations team would be happy to connect directly to you or with me, and we can have a conversation. Thank you. Bye-bye.

好的。謝謝你，尼拉夫。感謝大家的參與。感謝您在這個時間撥通。如果需要任何其他問題、意見或澄清，請隨時與我們聯繫。我們的投資者關係團隊很樂意直接與您或我聯繫，我們可以進行對話。謝謝。再見。

Thank you very much. On behalf of HDFC Bank Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

非常感謝。我謹代表 HDFC Bank Limited 結束本次會議。感謝您加入我們。現在您可以斷開線路。謝謝。