Embraer SA (ERJ) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the audio conference call for Embraer's financial results for the third quarter of 2023. Thank you for standing by. The numbers of this presentation contain non-GAAP financial information to facilitate investors to reconcile EVEs financial information in GAAP standard to Embraer's IFRS. We remind that EVEs results will be discussed on EVEs conference. It is important to mention that all numbers are presented in U.S. dollar as it is our functional currency. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. Instructions to participate will be given at that time. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. This conference call includes forward-looking statements or statements about events or circumstances, which have not occurred. Embraer has based these forward-looking statements largely on its current expectations and projections about future events and financial trends affecting the business and its future financial performance. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions, including among the other things, general economic, political and business conditions in Brazil and in other markets where the company is present. The words, leaves, may, will, estimates, continues, anticipates, intends, expects and similar words are intended to identify forward-looking statements. Embraer undertakes no obligations to update publicly revise any forward-looking statements because of new information, future events and other factors. In light of these risks and uncertainties, the forward-looking events and circumstances discussed on this conference call might not occur. The company's actual results could differ substantially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. Participants on today's conference call are Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO; Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer; and Leonardo Shinohara, Director of Investor Relations. I would like now to turn the conference over to Francisco, who will proceed with the first remarks. Please go ahead

早安，女士們，先生們。歡迎參加巴西航空工業公司 2023 年第三季財務業績音響電話會議。感謝您的耐心等待。本簡報的編號包含非 GAAP 財務訊息，以方便投資者將 GAAP 標準中的 EVE 財務資訊與巴西航空工業公司的 IFRS 進行核對。我們提醒您，EVEs 結果將在 EVEs 會議上進行討論。值得一提的是，所有數字都以美元表示，因為美元是我們的功能貨幣。此時，所有參與者都處於只聽模式。隨後，我們將進行問答環節。屆時將給予參與說明。提醒一下，本次會議正在錄製中。本次電話會議包括前瞻性陳述或尚未發生的事件或情況的陳述。巴西航空工業公司的這些前瞻性陳述主要基於其當前對影響業務及其未來財務表現的未來事件和財務趨勢的預期和預測。這些前瞻性陳述受到風險、不確定性和假設的影響，其中包括巴西和該公司所在的其他市場的總體經濟、政治和商業狀況。 「離開」、「可能」、「將」、「估計」、「繼續」、「預期」、「打算」、「期望」等詞語和類似詞語旨在識別前瞻性陳述。巴西航空工業公司不承擔因新資訊、未來事件和其他因素而公開更新、修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務。鑑於這些風險和不確定性，本次電話會議中討論的前瞻性事件和情況可能不會發生。該公司的實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的預期有很大差異。今天電話會議的參與者包括總裁兼執行長 Francisco Gomes Neto；安東尼奧·卡洛斯·加西亞，財務長；以及投資者關係總監 Leonardo Shinohara。現在我想把會議交給弗朗西斯科，他將首先發言。請繼續

Good morning, and thank you all for joining our third quarter 2023 results conference call today. Firm order backlog ended at $17.8 billion, a US$500 million increase versus the second quarter with 42 commercial aircraft sold by September. This quarter was marked by an excellent sales momentum and double-digit revenue growth in all business units. EBIT and free cash flow are in line with our expectations. We concluded our reliability management process, placing Embraer in an excellent cash position with the extension of our debt maturity with no relevant disimbursement until mid 2027. On the other hand, we are still facing some challenges in our supply chain. And Embraer has been diligently working with its suppliers to mitigate these issues. Our operational and financial guidance for the year remain unchanged. On the next slide, we present the highlights of our business units. Commercial Aviation delivered a total of 39 aircraft during 2023, of which 21 are (inaudible) 3x more than the same period in 2022. Commercial Aviation backlog rose to $8.6 billion compared to the second quarter 2023 with a book-to-bill of 1:1, highlighting sales stability and deliveries this year. It is also important to mention that there are many ongoing sales campaigns. In the U.S. market, we had several firm orders coming from main customers of E175-E1 jets. This is an important highlight because it shows that the pilot shortage situation is improving in the U.S. Another important deal was with Luxembourg based airline, Luxe. The 152 aircraft will complement Luxe's narrow-bit flight. In Executive Aviation, revenue increased 25% year-over-year, and EBIT margin improved 2.1%. The business unit delivered 28 jets, representing an increase of 5 aircraft compared to Q3 2022. The business continues its outstanding performance with sustainable demand across its entire product portfolio and a strong customer acceptance in both retail and fleet markets. Backlog grew 10% year-over-year, reaching $4.3 billion and a book-to-bill of 1.5:1. In defense, Austria and Czech Republic announced the selection of the C-390 Millenium at the tactical military transport aircraft. Last year, Netherlands had also announced the selection of the C-390, which consolidates the multimission platform as a preferred solution in the 2 countries. These potential contracts representing new phase for defense and a significant growth potential for our backlog. In October, the first Portuguese Air Force KC-390 has entered into service. This is the first KC-390 to enter into service outside Brazil. Also, in October, we celebrated with the Brazilian Air Force, the KC390 milestone of 10,000 flight hours, attesting the aircraft's remarkable performance in its versatility and capacity in different areas of operation. Finally, the year-to-date EBIT margin in defense is 7.2%. In the quarter margin improvement of curate, we took contract adjustments for the KC-390 and the physical progress of the program. We emphasize that these adjustments were punctual. And for the next quarter, we expect business margin to normalize. In service and support, our revenue has increased by 24% year-over-year to $366 million. We recorded a consistent double-digit EBIT margin year-to-date. Another highlight was the backlog increase of $2.8 billion in the quarter, the highest value ever recorded in these business units. Embraer Services and Support has reinforced its role as one of the main drivers of growth for the next years. I will now hand you over to Antonio to give you further details on the financial results, and we will be back with closing remarks.

早安，感謝大家今天參加我們的 2023 年第三季業績電話會議。截至 9 月份，已售出 42 架商用飛機，確定積壓訂單最終達到 178 億美元，較第二季增加 5 億美元。本季所有業務部門的銷售動能良好，營收均達到兩位數成長。息稅前利潤和自由現金流符合我們的預期。我們完成了可靠性管理流程，使巴西航空工業公司處於良好的現金狀況，債務期限延長，直到 2027 年中期才支付相關款項。另一方面，我們的供應鏈仍面臨一些挑戰。巴西航空工業公司一直在與其供應商努力合作，以緩解這些問題。我們今年的營運和財務指導保持不變。在下一張投影片中，我們將介紹我們業務部門的亮點。商業航空在2023 年總共交付了39 架飛機，其中21 架（聽不清楚）是2022 年同期的3 倍。與2023 年第二季相比，商用航空積壓訂單增至86 億美元，訂單出貨比為1： 1、突顯今年的銷售穩定性與交貨量。值得一提的是，還有許多正在進行的銷售活動。在美國市場，我們有幾筆來自E175-E1噴射機主要客戶的確認訂單。這是一個重要的亮點，因為它表明美國飛行員短缺的情況正在改善。另一項重要交易是與盧森堡航空公司 Luxe 達成的。這 152 架飛機將補充 Luxe 的窄位航班。在公務航空領域，營收年增 25%，息稅前利潤率提高 2.1%。該業務部門交付了 28 架飛機，比 2022 年第三季增加了 5 架。該業務部門憑藉整個產品組合的可持續需求以及零售和機隊市場的客戶認可度，繼續保持出色的業績。積壓訂單年增 10%，達到 43 億美元，訂單出貨比為 1.5:1。在國防方面，奧地利和捷克共和國宣布選擇C-390 Millenium作為戰術軍用運輸機。去年，荷蘭也宣布選擇 C-390，鞏固了多任務平台作為兩國的首選解決方案。這些潛在合約代表了國防的新階段以及我們積壓訂單的巨大成長潛力。 10月，第一架葡萄牙空軍KC-390已投入使用。這是第一架在巴西境外投入使用的 KC-390。此外，10 月份，我們與巴西空軍一起慶祝了 KC390 飛行 10,000 小時的里程碑，證明了該飛機在不同作戰領域的多功能性和容量方面的卓越表現。最後，今年迄今國防業務的息稅前利潤率為 7.2%。在策劃的季度利潤率改善中，我們對 KC-390 的合約進行了調整，並進行了專案的實際進展。我們強調這些調整是及時的。對於下個季度，我們預計業務利潤率將正常化。在服務和支援方面，我們的營收年增 24%，達到 3.66 億美元。今年迄今為止，我們的息稅前利潤率一直保持兩位數。另一個亮點是本季積壓訂單增加了 28 億美元，這是這些業務部門有史以來的最高值。巴西航空工業公司服務與支援鞏固了其作為未來幾年成長主要推動力之一的作用。現在我將請安東尼奧向您提供有關財務業績的更多詳細信息，然後我們將發表結束語。

Thank you, Francisco, and good morning, everyone. Indeed, we have an excellent quarter with financial and operational indicators aligned with our projections for 2023. Moving to Slide 7. We have good news about the deliveries. In the third quarter, Embraer delivered 43 jets, 15 commercial and 28 executive, representing an increase of 30% compared to the same period last year and 33% higher year-to-date. The highlight is commercial aviation represents hobos growth with deliveries rising from 10% to 15%, an increase of 50% on a year-over-year basis. In Executive Aviation, deliveries also increased in the quarter, 19 light and 9 midsized jets, 22% higher than third quarter '22. We have a challenge ahead of us in Q4 delivers. But as we already demonstrated last year, we are prepared for this. As a result, we are confirming the delivery outlook in our commercial and executive business for 2023. Slide 8, the backlog, our order backlog ended the quarter at $17.8 billion, the highest backlog in 1 year. The quality of orders in our backlog is accretive with Embraer's profitability expectations. In Commercial Aviation, total backlog increased from 271 aircraft to 291 aircraft quarter-over-quarter. In Executive Aviation, we see a resilient backlog with annual book-to-bill of 1.5:1, one of the highest in the industry currently. The business continues to experience strong growth with a solid demand for the entire portfolio. Service and support backlog reached its record, reflecting the extension and increase in the pull parts contracts. As a result of our excellent performance, we ended the quarter with approximately $1.3 billion of net revenue, 38% higher year-over-year. Revenue year-to-date exceeded $3 billion, which represents a figure of 29% higher year-over-year. We had an increase in revenue in how of our business units, which shows Embraer potential for a sustainable growth. In Slide 9, the third quarter, we had an excellent performance in terms of adjusted EBIT and EBITDA with $100 million and $149 million, respectively. Adjusted EBIT and EBITDA margins of 7.8% and 11.6%, respectively, also shows a strong growth, mainly due to the higher revenue in all business units and a stable cost base. We are reaffirming our adjusted EBIT and EBITDA margin projections for 2023. In Slide #10, we had the free cash flow generation, excluding EVE of $44 million in the third quarter, significantly higher year-over-year with a stable working capital. These upward trends indicate a substantial positive cash ratio for the next quarter, in line with higher deliveries, so we are very confident that we will reach the free cash flow guidance of $150 million or more. Moving to investments, $45 million were allocated to R&D and EUR 30 million to CapEx, resulting $75 million invested in the third quarter. Capital allocation is focused on the segments with higher returns, with price search expansion of our production capacity in executive aviation and service and support. Some words about EVE, the program has reached the necessary milestones to begin capitalizing its product development costs on IFRS rules. Adjusted net results were $33 million, an increase of 34% compared to third quarter '22. Reported net income was positively impacted by non-cash mark-to-market of (inaudible) of $24 million on an adjusted net margin of 2.6%, remaining stable compared to the third quarter '22. In Slide #11, in this slide, we are pleased to show the results of our liability management plan. We reduced our debt in $632 million compared to the second quarter '23. We increased the average debt maturity to 4.8 years, leaving Embraer in a comfortable position where liquidity of $2.4 billion with EVE allow us to cover all obligations until 2030. In the quarter, our net debt, excluding EVE is $1,357 million, as shown in the top center of the slide. This is a slightly lower than last quarter due to the better cash generation. Our leverage ratio show in the top right or is 2.5x, a significant improvement compared to 4.8x in the same period of last year. It's important to highlight that the positive results of our business unit allowed us to successfully execute our liability management plan. We are taking all necessary steps to recover the investment-grade status. With that, I conclude my presentation and hand it back to Francis for his final remarks. Thanks for your attention.

謝謝弗朗西斯科，大家早安。事實上，我們有一個出色的季度，財務和營運指標與我們對 2023 年的預測一致。轉向投影片 7。我們有關於交付的好消息。第三季度，巴西航空工業公司交付了43架噴射機，其中15架商用飛機和28架公務機，較去年同期成長30%，較年初至今成長33%。亮點是商用航空代表了流浪者的成長，交付量從 10% 上升到 15%，較去年同期成長 50%。在公務航空領域，本季交付量也有所增加，共有 19 架輕型飛機和 9 架中型飛機，比 22 年第三季成長 22%。我們在第四季度的交付中面臨著挑戰​​。但正如我們去年已經證明的那樣，我們已為此做好準備。因此，我們正在確認 2023 年商業和執行業務的交付前景。投影片 8，積壓訂單，我們的積壓訂單本季末達到 178 億美元，這是一年來的最高積壓訂單。我們的積壓訂單品質隨著巴西航空工業公司的獲利預期而不斷提高。在商業航空領域，積壓飛機總數從 271 架增加到 291 架。在公務航空領域，我們看到積壓訂單富有彈性，年度訂單與帳單比率為 1.5:1，是目前業界最高的之一。隨著對整個產品組合的強勁需求，該業務繼續強勁成長。服務和支援積壓創下歷史新高，反映出拉動零件合約的延長和增加。由於我們的出色表現，本季末我們的淨收入約為 13 億美元，年增 38%。年初至今營收超過 30 億美元，年增 29%。我們的業務部門收入增加，顯示了巴西航空工業公司可持續成長的潛力。在投影片 9 中，第三季度，我們在調整後 EBIT 和 EBITDA 方面表現出色，分別為 1 億美元和 1.49 億美元。調整後的 EBIT 和 EBITDA 利潤率分別為 7.8% 和 11.6%，也顯示出強勁成長，主要得益於所有業務部門的較高收入和穩定的成本基礎。我們重申對 2023 年調整後的 EBIT 和 EBITDA 利潤率預測。在投影片 #10 中，我們第三季的自由現金流（不包括 EVE）為 4,400 萬美元，年比大幅成長，營運資金穩定。這些上升趨勢表明，下一季現金比率將大幅提高，與交付量的增加相一致，因此我們非常有信心達到 1.5 億美元或更多的自由現金流指導值。投資方面，4,500 萬美元分配給研發，3,000 萬歐元分配給資本支出，第三季投資額為 7,500 萬美元。資本配置重點關注回報率較高的領域，並透過價格搜尋擴大我們在公務航空以及服務和支援領域的產能。關於 EVE 的一些話，該計劃已經達到了必要的里程碑，可以開始根據 IFRS 規則資本化其產品開發成本。調整後淨利為 3,300 萬美元，比 22 年第三季成長 34%。報告的淨利潤受到非現金以市價計價（聽不清楚）2,400萬美元的正面影響，調整後淨利率為2.6%，與2022年第三季相比保持穩定。在投影片 #11 中，我們很高興地展示了我們的責任管理計畫的結果。與 2023 年第二季相比，我們的債務減少了 6.32 億美元。我們將平均債務期限延長至4.8 年，使巴西航空工業公司處於有利地位，EVE 的流動性為24 億美元，使我們能夠履行2030 年之前的所有債務。本季度​​，我們的淨債務（不包括EVE ）為13.57 億美元，如表所示。幻燈片的頂部中心。由於現金流量增加，這一數字略低於上季。右上顯示我們的槓桿率為2.5倍，比去年同期的4.8倍有了顯著改善。需要強調的是，我們業務部門的積極成果使我們能夠成功執行我們的責任管理計劃。我們正在採取一切必要措施恢復投資級地位。至此，我結束了我的演講，並將其交還給弗朗西斯，供他最後發言。感謝您的關注。

Thanks, Antonio. The Q3 results were very satisfactory and met our expectations. Our products are experiencing a very favorable moment in the market with several important campaigns ongoing and aircraft slots on the production lines practically filled until 2025. We know we have a challenge ahead in terms of deliveries. Therefore, we can expect an intense Q4, mainly due to supply chain constraints. In line with our guidance, we expect 20% revenue growth this year compared to last year. We are confident that this is the harvesting time for everything we have done in recent years. And that we are on the right path to a sustainable growth with even more robust financial results in this and future years. Thanks again for your interest and confidence in our company.

謝謝，安東尼奧。第三季的業績非常令人滿意，達到了我們的預期。我們的產品在市場上正經歷一個非常有利的時期，幾個重要的活動正在進行中，生產線上的飛機槽位實際上已填滿，直到2025 年。我們知道我們在交付方面面臨著挑戰。因此，我們預計第四季將是緊張的，這主要是由於供應鏈的限制。根據我們的指引，我們預計今年的營收將比去年成長 20%。我們堅信，這是我們這些年所做一切的收穫時刻。我們正走在可持續成長的正確道路上，在今年和未來幾年取得更強勁的財務表現。再次感謝您對我們公司的關注與信任。

We will now start the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions). Our first question comes from Noah Poponak, Goldman Sachs.

我們現在開始問答環節。 （操作員說明）。我們的第一個問題來自高盛的諾亞·波波納克。

Hey, good morning, everyone. Just on demand in commercial, it's been a few quarters now that you've been discussing pretty heavy campaigning activity, but it's also been a few quarters in a row where the actual signed orders have been relatively tepid. Is there something holding those discussions back or making them take longer than expected? Or is it really sort of more normal course of order? And I guess, what do you think can happen before year-end versus maybe what orders look like in 2024?

嘿，大家早安。只是商業上的需求，現在已經有幾個季度了，您一直在討論相當繁重的競選活動，但也連續幾個季度實際簽署的訂單相對不溫不火。是否有什麼因素阻礙了這些討論或使它們花費的時間比預期更長？或者這真的是比較正常的秩序嗎？我想，您認為年底前會發生什麼，而 2024 年的訂單可能會是什麼樣子？

Thanks for the question. So actually, yes, it's taken a little longer than we expected, but we were working in many sales campaigns. So we expect to close some deals still in Q4 this year and see a book-to-bill above 1:1. So it's one-to-one in the Q3, but we expect to be above 1 to 1 until the end of the year.

謝謝你的提問。所以實際上，是的，花費的時間比我們預期的要長一些，但我們正在進行許多銷售活動。因此，我們預計今年第四季仍能完成一些交易，訂單出貨比將超過 1:1。因此，第三季是一對一的，但我們預計到年底之前都會高於 1 比 1。

Okay. And just as a follow-up, the margin in the segment has been somewhat volatile, I guess, quarter-to-quarter and below where you want it to be longer term. How should we think about how that margin progresses into next year? Does pricing in the backlog improve enough -- quickly enough for that margin to have a decent amount of expansion next year? Or is the margin -- you've talked about that segment getting to longer term, is that further out there next year?

好的。作為後續行動，我猜想，該領域的利潤率每個季度都有些波動，並且低於您希望的長期水平。我們該如何考慮明年的利潤率如何？積壓訂單中的定價是否改善得夠快，足以讓明年的利潤率有相當大的擴張？或者是利潤率——您已經談到該細分市場會變得更長期，明年會更進一步嗎？

Thanks for the question. in regards to the BAT margin for the segment, we do see this year a lower single dip. And moving to the next year a little bit better, I would say, it's still low single digit, but something like 3% to 4%. What you see in long term, what we are promising to the market with our services a mid-single-digit margin for the long term. That's more or less what we are seeing right now, highly driven by the aggression of fixed costs. And I would say the price point is not moving up as we would expect because we are very active in the 2 campaigns, I'd say, which has much more pressure on the price point. But I'd say, normalized mid-single digit for the long term.

謝謝你的提問。就該領域的英美菸草利潤率而言，我們確實看到今年單次下降幅度較低。到了明年會好一點，我想說，它仍然是低個位數，但大約是 3% 到 4%。從長遠來看，我們向市場承諾的服務是中個位數的長期利潤率。這或多或少就是我們現在所看到的，很大程度上是由固定成本的侵略所推動的。我想說的是，價格點並沒有像我們預期的那樣上漲，因為我們在這兩個活動中非常活躍，我想說，這對價格點有更大的壓力。但我想說的是，從長遠來看，標準化的中個位數。

Our next question comes from Cai von Rumohr, TD Cowen.

我們的下一個問題來自 TD Cowen Cai von Rumohr。

Thank you very much, and good results. So maybe talk a little bit about the order mix. It looks like you did particularly well on the 175. The margins were pretty good, even though there were fewer 175. I know the mix is favored the 175s is much more profitable. Can you discuss, first, what the outlook is for 175 orders as a percent of the total going forward? What the mix is likely to be next year, 175 versus E2 and how the E2 is doing in terms of profitability.

非常感謝，也取得了很好的結果。所以也許可以談談訂單組合。看來你們在 175 上做得特別好。儘管 175 的數量較少，但利潤率還是相當不錯的。我知道 175 的組合受到青睞，利潤更高。您能否先討論一下 175 份訂單佔未來總數的百分比的前景如何？明年的組合可能是什麼，175 與 E2 以及 E2 在獲利能力方面的表現如何。

The participation of E2 is growing as we expected. So we -- for the full year, we expect to be 60-40, 60% E2s and still 40% E1s, which we believe it's a healthy mix for the commercial aviation, considering the margins, as we mentioned before.

正如我們預期的那樣，E2 的參與度正在不斷增長。因此，我們預計全年將達到 60-40，即 60% E2 和 40% E1，我們認為考慮到利潤率，這對於商業航空來說是一個健康的組合，正如我們之前提到的。

Okay. And then you've done well in terms of KC-390 selections. When should we expect the orders? How big would you expect the orders to be? And what should we look for in terms of delivery prognosis going forward?

好的。然後您在 KC-390 選擇方面就做得很好。我們什麼時候應該收到訂單？您預計訂單有多大？在未來的分娩預後方面我們應該關注什麼？

Well, I mean, we saw the announcement of Netherlands in 2022 for 5 cases and more recently, from Austria and Czech Republic. So as Astra, I mean also now they want to join Netherlands in the same contract. We expect to close those contracts by beginning of 2024. And they are -- they will be very important. It's a very important moment for our defense business. With those contracts, we'll be able to more than double the backlog of defense, which will be very important for the performance of the business unit. And we are still working in other campaigns. We are expecting a decision from South Korea. Now, for (inaudible) for this year in a bit, we are participating. So -- and many other campaigns as well. So we believe it is a good moment for defense.

嗯，我的意思是，我們看到荷蘭在 2022 年宣布了 5 起案件，最近又宣布了奧地利和捷克共和國的案件。所以身為阿斯特拉，我的意思是現在他們也想以同一份合約加入荷蘭。我們預計將在 2024 年初完成這些合約。它們將非常重要。對於我們的國防業務來說，這是一個非常重要的時刻。有了這些合同，我們將能夠將積壓的防禦工作增加一倍以上，這對業務部門的績效非常重要。我們仍在進行其他活動。我們期待韓國做出決定。現在，我們正在參與今年的（聽不清楚）。所以——還有許多其他活動。所以我們認為現在是防守的好時機。

When you said you have 5 from the Netherlands, how many would that total be when Austria joins and when Czech joins. Any sense in terms of the size of the South Korean order? And what's the expected build in terms of deliveries?

當你說有 5 個來自荷蘭時，當奧地利加入和捷克加入時，總共有多少。韓國訂單的規模有什麼意義嗎？預計交付量是多少？

Well, if you combine Netherlands, Austria, in Czech Republic, we are talking about at least 11 aircraft and 3 from South Korea.

好吧，如果你把荷蘭、奧地利和捷克共和國結合起來，我們談論的是至少 11 架飛機和 3 架來自韓國的飛機。

Okay. And how does that delivery build?

好的。那麼這種交付是如何建構的呢？

Well, the deliveries will start in '24, 30 months from the signing of the contract, more or less. That means 2025 onwards.

嗯，交付將於 24 年開始，大約是合約簽署後 30 個月。這意味著 2025 年以後。

Our next question comes from Myles Walton with Wolf Research.

我們的下一個問題來自 Wolf Research 的 Myles Walton。

Maybe to just follow up on Cai's last question. Francisco, when you're at a cadence of, I guess, 3 per year, 4 per year on the KC-390, what's the anticipated margin profile of defense?

也許只是為了跟進蔡的最後一個問題。弗朗西斯科，當你的 KC-390 的節奏是每年 3 次、每年 4 次時，預期的防禦餘裕是多少？

Well, I mean the difference would be higher single digits, closer to 2 digits with those contracts.

嗯，我的意思是，這些合約的差異將是更高的個位數，接近兩位數。

Okay. Good. I was hoping you could maybe dig a little bit deeper on the supply chain into 4Q. Are you seeing the same challenges on the commercial side as you are on the executive side? Or are they different in nature? Are some of them large structures or some of the engines or some of them small piece ports? I'm just trying to understand if you're facing the exact same problem on both sides or if they're pretty unique.

好的。好的。我希望你能更深入地了解第四季的供應鏈。您在商業方面是否看到了與執行方面相同的挑戰？或者說它們的性質不同？其中一些是大型結構或一些發動機或其中一些小部件端口？我只是想了解雙方是否面臨完全相同的問題，或者它們是否非常獨特。

So first of all, I think it's important to mention that we have seen improvements in the supply chain from '22 to '23 in many with many suppliers. But we still have challenges, as you mentioned. So they are -- they're not necessarily the same. When we talk about the engines, yes, we have a challenge in both sides, but all the components are not the same. But, I mean, we believe that even with the challenges, I mean we will be at the lower end of our guidance in terms of deliveries this year, Myers.

首先，我認為值得一提的是，從 22 世紀到 23 世紀，許多供應商的供應鏈都得到了改善。但正如您所提到的，我們仍然面臨挑戰。所以它們是——它們不一定是相同的。當我們談論引擎時，是的，我們在雙方都面臨挑戰，但所有組件並不相同。但是，我的意思是，我們相信，即使面臨挑戰，我的意思是，我們今年的交付量仍將處於指導的下限，邁爾斯。

Okay. And then one last one. The GTF issue and the accelerated inspection and replacement on their powdered metal. Can you comment as it relates to effects you're seeing on your E2 fleet or you expect on your E2 fleet? And then also with respect to OGMA, what's the kind of revenue opportunity from the OGMA MRO opportunity for the GTF?

好的。然後是最後一張。 GTF 問題以及對其粉末金屬的加速檢查和更換。您能否就您在 E2 機隊上看到的或您預期對 E2 機隊產生的影響發表評論？然後，對於 OGMA，GTF 可以從 OGMA MRO 機會中獲得什麼樣的收入機會？

Absolutely. Well, first, I mean, there's no inspection planet for GTF this year, 2023. Pratt Whitney announced recently that the E2s will be less impacted because the aircraft arrive later in the market with a more mature configuration of the engines and also the aircraft is lighter than the older models. So this puts the E2 in a -- E2 is -- the are not immune of the issues, but put the E2s in I'd say, in a better situation in terms of performance for our customers. And the product is still working in this inspection and schedule for the E2s related to the powder metal issue. The other question was?

絕對地。嗯，首先，我的意思是，今年，即2023 年，GTF 沒有檢查星球。普拉特·惠特尼(Pratt Whitney) 最近宣布，E2 受到的影響較小，因為該飛機進入市場較晚，發動機配置更成熟，而且該飛機比舊型號更輕。因此，這使 E2 無法免受這些問題的影響，但我想說，就我們客戶的表現而言，E2 處於更好的境地。且該產品仍在本次檢查和時間表中進行與粉末金屬問題相關的E2。另一個問題是？

OGMA and your opportunity (inaudible) revenue

OGMA 和您的機會（聽不清楚）收入

OGMA is moving very fast. I mean in preparation for the SOP of the GTF engines that is planned for April 2024, and that is a very important contract for OGMA that will help OGMA to triple its revenues in the next 2 or 3 years.

OGMA 進展非常快。我的意思是為計劃於 2024 年 4 月推出的 GTF 發動機 SOP 做準備，這對 OGMA 來說是一份非常重要的合同，將幫助 OGMA 在未來 2 到 3 年內將其收入增加兩倍。

Our next question comes from Felipe Net

我們的下一個問題來自 Felipe Net

Congrats on results. I have 2 on my side. The first one, if you're seeing any relief or possible relief in terms of scope clauses in the U.S., as you mentioned, several campaigns going forward? And the second one is, how do you expect to close the free cash flow gap to reach the 2023 guidance that you gave, like I saw that you still have cash burn for 9 months and you maintain your guidance of free cash flow generation of $150 million. So I just wanted to hear your thoughts, how do you expect to get there?

祝賀結果。我這邊有2個。第一個，正如您所提到的，您是否看到美國的範圍條款有任何緩解或可能的緩解，未來有幾項活動正在進行中？第二個問題是，您預計如何縮小自由現金流缺口，以達到您給出的 2023 年指導，就像我看到您仍然有 9 個月的現金消耗，並且維持 150 美元的自由現金流生成指導百萬。所以我只是想聽聽你的想法，你希望如何實現這個目標？

Felipe, thanks for the question. First, related to the scope clause, we don't see any movements to change the -- for the relaxation of the scope clause. But to be honest, we don't see really an impact for Embraer. So I mean our E175-E1 is the workhorse of regional aviation in the U.S. And now, with the improvements, we are seeing in the pilot situation, this will open the door for more sales of the E175s ones in the U.S. In parallel, we are working with the main lines in the U.S. to convince them to introduce the E2s, the E195-E2s to complement the the big narrow barriers in order to offer higher frequency of flights to passengers in order to explore new routes in a very attractive cost benefit with the E195-E2s. So related to the margin. Now I ask Antonio to help here -- cash flow, yes.

費利佩，謝謝你的提問。首先，與範圍條款相關，我們沒有看到任何為了放寬範圍條款而改變 -- 的動向。但說實話，我們並沒有看到對巴西航空工業公司產生真正的影響。所以我的意思是我們的 E175-E1 是美國支線航空的主力。現在，隨著我們在試點情況中看到的改進，這將為 E175s 在美國的更多銷售打開大門。同時，我們正在與美國的主要航空公司合作，說服他們引入E2、E195-E2，以補充狹窄的障礙，以便為乘客提供更高頻率的航班，從而以極具吸引力的成本效益探索新航線與 E195-E2 一起。所以與保證金有關。現在我請安東尼奧幫忙——現金流，是的。

Felipe, the cash flow, to be honest, is the -- I would say, where we do see much more potential to be -- to have some upside and downside for sure, if you ask me today we are negative, but assuming that the 40% of the whole business is going to be done in Q4, we are going to deliver more than $2 billion in revenue when get the cash inflow. And some of those parts, you are even not able to pay in advance. That's why we do see a more concentration on cash inflow in Q4 and less cash outflows combined with the reduction of the inventories. That's more or less where we do see the cash flow going. And we also have M&A that we just closed was announced last Friday with also a cash inflow of $45 million, which helps this equation to be, I would say, highly positive for the year.

費利佩，老實說，現金流是——我想說，我們確實看到了更大的潛力——肯定有一些上行和下行，如果你今天問我，我們持否定態度，但假設整個業務的40 %將在第四季度完成，當現金流入時，我們將實現超過20億美元的收入。其中一些零件，您甚至無法提前付款。這就是為什麼我們確實看到第四季度現金流入更加集中，而隨著庫存的減少，現金流出減少。這或多或少是我們確實看到現金流的方向。我們還在上週五宣布了剛完成的併購，現金流入為 4500 萬美元，我想說，這有助於這個方程式在今年變得非常積極。

Thanks very much, guys

非常感謝，夥伴們

Our next question comes from Kristine Liwag, Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的克里斯汀·利瓦格。

Good morning, Antonio. Good morning, Francisco for 4Q '23, 4Q is historically seasonally strong for deliveries. So first, how is the supply chain executing for you to feel confident that you could deliver on your expected customer deliveries in 4Q? And also looking at the midpoint of your 2023 EBIT margin guide for the year, 4Q would have to be around 9.6% in EBIT. So based on execution of what you've seen so far in availability of parts, how confident are you at meeting this?

早安，安東尼奧。早安，弗朗西斯科，23 年第 4 季的交付量歷史上處於季節性強勁狀態。首先，供應鏈的執行如何讓您有信心在第四季實現預期的客戶交付？再看看 2023 年息稅前利潤率指南的中點，第四季的息稅前利潤必須在 9.6% 左右。因此，根據您迄今為止所看到的零件可用性的執行情況，您對實現這一目標有多大信心？

Okay. Kristine, I'll start with the deliveries in Q4. Then Antonio will complement with the EBIT. I mean, we have been working very closely to the -- our suppliers in order to know to to mitigate the issues. We are getting the parts, but we are getting some parts late. So this puts pressure on our production process, not only production process, but the delivery process as well, right? As -- now moving to the right, more to the December, and that's a more difficult month. But we are still confident that we will be at the lower end of our guidance in terms of delivery and even more confident that we'll deliver the financial results in the guidance for the year. So Antonio?

好的。克里斯汀，我將從第四季的交付開始。然後安東尼奧將補充息稅前利潤。我的意思是，我們一直與我們的供應商密切合作，以便了解如何緩解這些問題。我們正在獲取零件，但有些零件遲到了。那麼這給我們的生產過程帶來了壓力，不僅是生產過程，還有交付過程，對吧？現在向右移動，更多的是十二月，那是一個更困難的月份。但我們仍然有信心，我們將在交付方面處於指導的下限，並且更有信心我們將交付今年指導中的財務表現。那麼安東尼奧呢？

So Kristine, Antonio speaking here. Thanks for the question. In regards to the EBIT side, we do map every single day, but one important point here, we are going to deliver, if you reach the low end of the guidance for the executive aviation. We are going to deliver more than 50 aircraft -- and it's there where we do see the highest EBIT coming together with the service side. And I would say that's more or less what the margin should bring us. We see today the EBIT and EBITDA margin at the mid end of the guidance, to be more precise.

克莉絲汀、安東尼奧在這裡發言。謝謝你的提問。關於息稅前利潤方面，我們每天都會繪製地圖，但如果您達到公務航空指南的低端，我們將在此提供重要的一點。我們將交付 50 多架飛機——我們確實看到服務方面的息稅前利潤最高。我想說，這或多或少就是利潤應該帶給我們的。更準確地說，我們今天看到的 EBIT 和 EBITDA 利潤率處於指引的中間位置。

And then also taking a step back, Francisco and Antonio, the stabilization of the business after COVID-19 and after the breakup with Boeing, too, I mean, it's very clear that the company is now in a harvest period. So with the balance sheet in a pretty strong place there's no significant maturities in the next few years, how do we think about capital deployment priorities for 2024 and beyond. So are you thinking of potentially another new airplane launch? Or is this a period where shareholders could get incremental return either through dividends or buybacks? How do you think about those priorities? And maybe this is a more appropriate question for your Investor Day, but I thought I'll just start off with that.

然後退一步，弗朗西斯科和安東尼奧，在 COVID-19 以及與波音公司分手之後，業務的穩定，我的意思是，很明顯，該公司現在正處於收穫期。因此，由於資產負債表相當強勁，未來幾年不會有重大到期日，我們如何考慮 2024 年及以後的資本部署優先事項。那麼您是否正在考慮推出另一架新飛機？還是股東可以透過分紅或回購獲得增量回報的時期？您如何看待這些優先事項？也許這是一個在投資者日更合適的問題，但我想我就從這個開始吧。

Thanks, Kristine. Good question. So that allows me to bring you even more information about that. Well, we -- after everything we have done in the past years in terms of restructuring the company put in place initiatives to foster sales and also to improve efficiency and foster innovation in the organization. We believe now we are in our harvest season, right? As the market is growing, and then we will enjoy this growth and improve our operational and financial performance. So combined with that, we have a very modern and competitive portfolio of products in all the business units we act on. So the E2 family, the Phenoms, the Praetor, the C-390 so that we are enjoying a very good momentum in terms of sales for all those segments. So what we want to do is in the is to focus, especially in '24 and '25 to focus on improving further our financial performance, we expect to start to pay dividends in 2025 onwards. So -- and then, in parallel, we are investing on developing new technologies to be prepared by 2025 to decide what we're going to do going forward. So -- but remember that we are investing on the EBITDA to develop EBIT, together with EVE, We are also investing, as I said, in new technologies to prepare the studies of future airplanes and also in the Energia family to explore disrupt proportion systems, as know, electric hybrid electric and hydrogen in hybrid. This is more or less our strategy going forward. Again, focus on further improving the financial performance in '24, '25. Continuing, I mean, selling the current portfolio of products and continue investing on new technologies and innovation to prepare new projects in the future.

謝謝，克里斯汀。好問題。這樣我就可以為您帶來更多相關資訊。嗯，在過去幾年我們在公司重組方面所做的一切之後，我們採取了一些措施來促進銷售、提高效率並促進組織創新。我們相信現在我們正處於收穫的季節，對嗎？隨著市場的成長，我們將享受這種成長並改善我們的營運和財務表現。因此，與此相結合，我們在我們從事的所有業務部門中都擁有非常現代化且具有競爭力的產品組合。因此，E2 系列、Phenoms、Praetor、C-390 使我們在所有這些細分市場的銷售方面都享有非常好的勢頭。因此，我們想要做的是集中精力，特別是在 24 年和 25 年集中精力進一步改善我們的財務業績，我們預計將在 2025 年開始支付股息。因此，與此同時，我們正在投資開發新技術，以便在 2025 年之前做好準備，以決定我們未來要做什麼。所以，但請記住，我們正在投資 EBITDA，以與 EVE 一起開發 EBIT，正如我所說，我們還投資新技術，為未來飛機的研究做好準備，並投資 Energia 系列，以探索擾亂比例係統眾所周知，混合動力有電動和氫混合動力。這或多或少是我們未來的策略。再次，重點在於進一步改善 24、25 年的財務表現。我的意思是，繼續銷售當前的產品組合，並繼續投資新技術和創新，為未來的新項目做好準備。

Great. I'm looking forward to seeing you guys in New York in 2 weeks.

偉大的。我期待兩週後在紐約見到你們。

Yes, same from our side. See you there.

是的，我們這邊也是。到時候那裡見。

Our next question comes from Ron Epstein, Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的羅恩愛潑斯坦。

We've covered a lot on the call so far, but maybe if we just kind of go back, I think it was Noah who asked a question about campaigns. If we can dig down a little bit deeper on that. Is there any more color you can give us on that? And how you're thinking campaigns could go through the end of this year, maybe into next year and what that translates into a -- what's like a normalized delivery rate for the E-Jets? When we think about building our models when we go out a couple of years, what should we think that the company can get to on E-Jets from here?

到目前為止，我們已經在電話會議上討論了很多內容，但也許如果我們回顧一下，我認為是諾亞問了有關競選的問題。如果我們能更深入地研究這一點。你還能給我們更多的資訊嗎？您如何看待活動可能會持續到今年年底，也許會持續到明年，這會轉化為——E-噴射機的標準化交付率是怎樣的？當我們考慮在幾年後建立我們的模型時，我們應該認為公司可以從現在開始在 E-Jets 上實現什麼目標？

Ron, again, thanks again for your question. In terms of campaigns for commercial aviation, we -- as I said before, we are working in many different campaigns, big names in different regions, in Europe, Asia Pacific. Also, we are starting to offer the E2s in the U.S. as well. I think it's becoming more and more clear that the E-195 E2 is not only a regional jet. As the E-175-E1s, I mean it's a bigger airplane that can help a lot the airlines to operate very profitably in routes with less passengers. As for example, Azul is doing in Brazil, as KLM is doing in Europe and Scoot and SKS, they have the same plans for Asia. So we -- and we believe that more and more of the airlines are understanding this, and we see a lot of good opportunities for the E2s, I mean, going forward in the market. So in terms of deliveries, Ron, we still have a limitation with the engines, but we are confident that we combine E2s and E1s, we will be at at above 8 units in 2024 and reaching 100 units in 2025 and years ahead. So, again, if you go now, above 100 units, 110 units, we'll be basically back to the levels -- pre-pandemic levels, but with a different mix. Now, we have much more E2s that it's more expensive. So in terms of revenues, we will see revenue -- will see a much higher revenue than in the past with the same quantity of delivery of the aircraft. So this is more like the situation as to your question. I mean, we are optimistic with the campaigns we are working on. We are optimistic with the opportunity to introduce the E2s in the U.S. as well. By the way, I mean, very soon we will see the E195-E2s from Porter flying to big cities in the U.S., Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Boston, Orlando, Miami, and this will be a great showcase of our aircraft. We believe people would love to fly in a very efficient aircraft without middle seats, and this we're opening opportunities for that aircraft in North America. And finalizing my comments, with improvement in the pilot shortage is also open opportunities for renewing for the company to renew the fleet of the E1s, which has more better margins, it can help us with the performance of our commercial aviation.

羅恩，再次感謝你的提問。在商業航空活動方面，正如我之前所說，我們正在許多不同的活動中開展工作，在不同地區、歐洲、亞太地區都有知名人士。此外，我們也開始在美國提供 E2。我認為越來越清楚的是，E-195 E2 不僅僅是一架支線飛機。作為 E-175-E1，我的意思是它是一架更大的飛機，可以幫助航空公司在乘客較少的航線上實現非常有利可圖的運營。例如，Azul 在巴西所做的事情，就像荷航在歐洲所做的那樣，酷航和 SKS 在亞洲也有同樣的計畫。因此，我們相信越來越多的航空公司正在理解這一點，我的意思是，我們看到 E2 在市場上有很多很好的機會。因此，羅恩，就交付量而言，我們對發動機仍然存在限制，但我們有信心將E2 和E1 結合起來，到2024 年我們的交付量將超過8 台，並在2025 年和未來幾年達到100 台。所以，再說一次，如果你現在超過 100 個單位、110 個單位，我們基本上會回到大流行前的水平，但會有不同的組合。現在，我們有更多的 E2，而且價格也更貴。因此，就收入而言，我們將看到收入——在交付相同數量的飛機的情況下，將看到比過去高得多的收入。所以這更像是你的問題的情況。我的意思是，我們對我們正在進行的活動感到樂觀。我們也對在美國推出 E2 的機會感到樂觀。順便說一句，我的意思是，很快我們就會看到波特的 E195-E2 飛往美國的大城市，洛杉磯、舊金山、紐約、波士頓、奧蘭多、邁阿密，這將是我們精彩的展示飛機。我們相信人們會喜歡乘坐沒有中間座位的高效飛機，我們正在為該飛機在北美提供機會。最後我的評論是，隨著飛行員短缺的改善，也為公司提供了更新E1機隊的機會，它具有更好的利潤，可以幫助我們提高商業航空的績效。

And then going forward, are there opportunities to upgrade the E2 platform itself without having to do a new aircraft. I mean, it's a relatively new airplane anyway. Are there ways to upgrade it that you could play with the engine or do other aerodynamic tweaks to the airplane to get more out of the platform?

展望未來，是否有機會升級 E2 平臺本身而無需購買新飛機。我的意思是，無論如何，這是一架相對較新的飛機。有沒有辦法升級它，您可以使用引擎或對飛機進行其他空氣動力學調整，以充分利用該平台？

Well, we're continuing to invest and improve the competitiveness of the E2s. I mean, with improvements in the aircraft, we are also -- we are converting the E-190-E1s on into freighters. So the first one has already the door install it, and it looks very nice. So we believe it's a good opportunity for us to introduce this cargo to help the commercial aviation as well. So again, these are the things we are doing. And we believe that going above 8 units next year in about 100 units from 2025 onwards, this will help a lot to improve the financial performance of commercial aviation as well. And the service will come, we'll grow because of that as well, right, more aircraft, more service as well.

嗯，我們正在繼續投資並提高E2的競爭力。我的意思是，隨著飛機的改進，我們也在將 E-190-E1 改裝成貨機。所以第一個已經在門上安裝了它，看起來非常漂亮。因此，我們相信這是我們引入這種貨物來幫助商業航空的好機會。再說一次，這些就是我們正在做的事情。我們相信，從 2025 年開始，明年的飛機數量將達到 8 架以上，數量約為 100 架，這也將有助於改善商業航空的財務表現。服務將會到來，我們也會因此而成長，對，更多的飛機，更多的服務。

Our next question comes from Marcelo Motta, JP Morgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的馬塞洛·莫塔。

Is a question regarding next year, the supply chain remained challenging, but you mentioned that you can increase the level of deliveries on the commercial. So just wondering what will you see in terms of the executives, the defense? I mean do you think it could be growing again double-digit rate on top line? What will be the outlook for the different lines of business of the company?

關於明年的問題，供應鏈仍然充滿挑戰，但您提到可以提高商業廣告的交付水平。所以只是想知道你會在高階主管和防守方面看到什麼？我的意思是，您認為營收可能會再次以兩位數的速度成長嗎？公司不同業務線的前景如何？

Marcelo, thank you. I mean, yes, I mean next year, we will still be challenged in the supply chain and the specific parts. But, again, improving from 2023 situation. So we are growing. I mean, we are planning to grow double digits in all business units we have. So we are growing this year, 23 compared to '22. We are growing more than 20%. And we expect to keep the same path, I mean, going to 2024 and also keeping important growth in the years ahead. So -- and again, we are working very closely with our supply -- our supply chain with our suppliers and to make sure that we will have the parts we need for -- to support this growth. Also, what we want to do in 2024 is to improve the distribution of the production deliveries throughout the year. We have initiative we call production leveling that we want to avoid this concentration of production in the second half of the year and see a better distribution throughout the year. It's still a challenging in the Q1 next year, but we are working very hard since now in order to improve our production deliveries in 2024.

馬塞洛，謝謝你。我的意思是，是的，我的意思是明年，我們在供應鏈和具體零件方面仍然會面臨挑戰。但與 2023 年相比，情況再次有所改善。所以我們正在成長。我的意思是，我們計劃在我們擁有的所有業務部門中實現兩位數的成長。所以我們今年成長了 23 倍，比 22 年成長了 23 倍。我們的成長率超過 20%。我的意思是，我們希望保持同樣的道路，到 2024 年，並在未來幾年保持重要的成長。因此，我們再次與供應商密切合作，我們的供應鏈與供應商合作，以確保我們擁有所需的零件，以支持這種成長。此外，我們在 2024 年要做的是改善全年生產交付的分配。我們採取了稱為生產均衡的舉措，希望避免下半年生產集中，並看到全年更好的分配。明年第一季仍然是一個挑戰，但我們從現在開始就非常努力，以提高 2024 年的生產交付量。

Our next question comes from Andres (inaudible), Bradesco BBI.

我們的下一個問題來自 Bradesco BBI 的 Andres（聽不清楚）。

I have 2 questions. The first, I was wondering if you could give us an update on how the partnership with L3 Harris for the gel tanker is developing? And the second question, you mentioned in a previous question about the countries that are selecting this C-390. But if you could comment a bit on the potential talks with the Indian government, a few months back, if you could give us a more -- a bit more detail on that. Thank you.

我有 2 個問題。首先，我想知道您能否向我們介紹一下與 L3 Harris 在凝膠罐車方面的合作進展如何？第二個問題，您在上一個問題中提到了選擇這款 C-390 的國家。但如果你能對幾個月前與印度政府的潛在談判發表一些評論，如果你能給我們更多的細節。謝謝。

Thank you, Andres. Well, I mean, partnership with L3 Harris is moving. We see the C-390 a great solution for the U.S. Air Force. And the first opportunity we found was the tanker, we call agile tanker. And this is what this partnership with L3 Harris is for, right, to work with the U.S. Air Force to offer the C-390 as an agile tanker. But we want also to offer the unit for the missions, right? I mean, so we are reinforcing our team in the U.S. as well. We recently announced a new Vice President of Sales for the U.S. to support L3 and support the potential future sales of C-390 that country that is the biggest defense market in the world. So the C-390, again, other countries, I mean, we are very happy with the announcement of Netherlands 2022. And now more recently, Austria and Czech Republic. I mean, that makes the C-390 preferred solution for this multimission platform for the (inaudible) countries. So we expect to close those contracts during the first half of 2024. In India, we are working in India now to select a partner that will be our partner to localize the production and the assembling of the C-390 to be compliant with the specification of this India Air Force. They want to buy between 4 to 8 multi-mission aircraft. And we do believe that C-390 is the best solution for them. We want to be prepared to compete. And for that, we need to select a partner. This is where we are in terms of India, specifically for the C-390.

謝謝你，安德烈斯。嗯，我的意思是，與 L3 Harris 的合作關係正在改變。我們認為 C-390 是美國空軍的絕佳解決方案。我們發現的第一個機會是油輪，我們稱之為敏捷油輪。這就是與 L3 Harris 合作的目的，沒錯，就是與美國空軍合作提供 C-390 作為敏捷加油機。但我們也想為任務提供該單位，對吧？我的意思是，我們也在加強我們在美國的團隊。我們最近宣布了一位新的美國銷售副總裁，以支持 L3 並支持 C-390 在美國這個世界上最大的國防市場的未來潛在銷售。所以 C-390，再說一次，其他國家，我的意思是，我們對荷蘭 2022 年的宣布感到非常高興。最近，奧地利和捷克共和國。我的意思是，這使得 C-390 成為（聽不清楚）國家的多任務平台的首選解決方案。因此，我們預計在 2024 年上半年完成這些合約。在印度，我們現在正在印度選擇一個合作夥伴，該合作夥伴將成為我們的合作夥伴，以實現 C-390 的在地化生產和組裝，以符合規範這支印度空軍。他們想要購買 4 到 8 架多工飛機。我們確實相信 C-390 是他們的最佳解決方案。我們希望做好競爭準備。為此，我們需要選擇一個合作夥伴。這就是我們在印度的情況，特別是 C-390。

Our next question comes from Noah Poponak, Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的諾亞·波波納克。

The GTF services business that you're going to layer in, remind me how large that gets on an annual run rate basis once it's at its run rate level? And then also, what does the margin look like on that work

您要分層的 GTF 服務業務，請提醒我，一旦達到運行率水平，每年運行率會有多大？還有，那件作品的邊距是什麼樣的

I would say when the priorities mature, we are foreseeing a revenue size of $0.5 billion for the -- our company in Portugal. It was the right question to your -- to answer you, we do see in terms of size, something like $0.5 billion, not next year. Next year, it will be around $50, something like that, but the longer run, $500 million.

我想說，當優先事項成熟時，我們預計我們在葡萄牙的公司的收入規模將達到 5 億美元。這對你來說是正確的問題——為了回答你，我們確實看到了規模，大約 5 億美元，而不是明年。明年，大約是 50 美元，類似的數字，但從長遠來看，是 5 億美元。

Total company.

總公司。

When will that first start to hit your financials late next year?

明年年底什麼時候這將首先開始影響您的財務狀況？

We started to already the repairs in April next year.

我們已於明年四月開始維修。

Yes. We have a ramp-up curve, but we will see some growth in Atmos revenue already in 2024, as Antonio said. But in 2025, we believe our (inaudible) closer to $500 million in terms of revenue and growing in the years ahead as well. And that's a bit positive collateral effect for the GTF issues.

是的。我們有一條上升曲線，但正如 Antonio 所說，我們將在 2024 年看到 Atmos 收入出現一些增長。但到 2025 年，我們相信我們的（聽不清楚）收入將接近 5 億美元，並且在未來幾年也會成長。這對 GTF 問題來說是一個正面的附帶影響。

Okay. And how does the margin on that revenue compare to the existing services segment margin?

好的。該收入的利潤率與現有服務部門的利潤率相比如何？

That's higher single digit, Noah.

這是更高的個位數，諾亞。

High single digits?

高個位數？

Yes. The same we have with other OEMs like (inaudible), for example.

是的。例如，我們與其他 OEM 廠商的情況相同，例如（聽不清楚）。

Okay. And Antonio, I think last quarter, you had guided to the Defense segment having $600 million of revenue this year. Is that large of a fourth quarter, still the plan?

好的。安東尼奧，我認為上個季度，您指導國防部門今年的收入為 6 億美元。第四季的規模是否仍然是計劃？

That's more or less what we are expecting for sure. We need one campaign to be able to fulfill, I would say, maybe we are going to lose $100 million? Maybe, but it does not jeopardize our EBIT margin, but we are just hanging on sales campaign that we hope to be close to end of this year because we do have scenario crafts and inventory, especially for the super tokens. That's more or less what I'm referring to.

這或多或少是我們所期待的。我們需要一項活動才能實現，我想說，也許我們會損失 1 億美元？也許吧，但這不會危及我們的息稅前利潤率，但我們只是堅持希望在今年年底前進行的銷售活動，因為我們確實有場景工藝和庫存，尤其是超級代幣。這或多或少就是我所指的。

Okay. And then I guess, does the defense segment now just have -- is it likely to have a pretty significant ramp up through the year in each year going forward? Or should I be thinking about the back half of this year being kind of the run rate moving forward? Or -- and then I guess, you have -- maybe have some airplanes slipping into next year. I guess, how do you think next year compares to this year in defense revenue?

好的。然後我想，國防領域現在是否有可能在未來的每一年都有相當大的成長？或者我應該考慮今年下半年的運行率會向前發展嗎？或者 - 然後我想，你可能會 - 可能會有一些飛機進入明年。我想，您認為明年的國防收入與今年相比如何？

Next year, around $750 million, then moving onwards to $1 billion on the longer range. With all of these new ones for sure, Noah, we do have a -- I would say, a potential backlog of more than $2 billion with this contract that has been already announced. We needed to conclude them in order to put in the backlog, then we could have much more visibility in regards to the split between '24, '25 and '26. But I would say in the longer run, we do see defense around $1 billion revenue and higher single-digit EBIT margin

明年約為 7.5 億美元，然後在更長期的範圍內達到 10 億美元。諾亞，毫無疑問，有了所有這些新合同，我們確實有——我想說，這份已經宣布的合同可能積壓超過 20 億美元。我們需要總結它們以便放入待辦事項中，然後我們可以對「24」、「25」和「26」之間的劃分有更多的可見性。但我想說，從長遠來看，我們確實看到了 10 億美元左右的收入和更高的個位數息稅前利潤率

Okay. All right. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

好的。好的。多謝。欣賞它。

Thank you. We have a new question comes from Cai Wong Rumohr, TD, Cowen. Please proceed.

謝謝。我們收到了來自 Cowen TD 的 Cai Wong Rumohr 的新問題。請繼續。

This will be quick. So this is the first quarter in the last couple. I haven't heard any talk about selling E2s to China. How do things look there?

這會很快。這是最後幾節的第一季。我還沒有聽說過任何關於向中國出售E2的消息。那裡的情況怎麼樣？

Okay. Thanks for the question. By the way, our team and commercial team is in China now. We will have tomorrow a special event to talk about regional aviation in China to explore the connectivity and so on. So this is another movement of Embraer in China to show how effective could be the introduction of E2s for the regional aviation, complementing the local aircraft. We are still working with local airlines for the introduction of E2s and also for potential partnerships. So this is what I can tell you at this point of time.

好的。謝謝你的提問。順便說一句，我們的團隊和商業團隊現在都在中國。明天我們將有一個特別的活動來談論中國支線航空，探討互聯互通等等。這是巴西航空工業公司在中國的另一個舉措，旨在展示在支線航空中引入E2飛機可以如何有效地補充本土飛機。我們仍在與當地航空公司合作引入 E2 並尋求潛在的合作夥伴關係。這就是我現在可以告訴你的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Cai.

謝謝，蔡。

This concludes today's question-and-answer session. That does conclude Embraer's audio conference for today. Thank you very much for your participation. Have a good day.

今天的問答環節到此結束。巴西航空工業公司今天的音頻會議到此結束。非常感謝您的參與。祝你有美好的一天。