Embraer SA (ERJ) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the audio conference call from Embraer's financial results for the first quarter of 2023. Thank you for standing by.

女士們先生們，早上好，歡迎參加巴西航空工業公司 2023 年第一季度財務業績的音頻電話會議。感謝大家的耐心等待。

We remind that Eve's results will be discussed on Eve's conference. It's important to mention that all numbers are presented in U.S. dollars as it's our financial currency.

我們提醒 Eve 的結果將在 Eve 的會議上討論。值得一提的是，所有數字均以美元表示，因為美元是我們的金融貨幣。

Additionally, the numbers in this presentation contain non-GAAP financial information to facilitate investors to reconcile Eve's financial information in GAAP standards to Embraer's IFRS.

此外，本演示文稿中的數字包含非 GAAP 財務信息，以方便投資者將 GAAP 標準中的 Eve 財務信息與巴西航空工業公司的 IFRS 相協調。

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded and webcasted at ri.embraer.com.br.

（操作員說明）提醒一下，本次會議正在 ri.embraer.com.br 上進行錄製和網絡直播。

This conference call includes forward-looking statements or statements about events or circumstances which have not occurred. Embraer has based these forward-looking statements largely on its current expectations and projections about the future events and financial trends affecting the business and its future financial performance. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions, including, among other things, general economic, political and business conditions in Brazil and in other markets where the company is present.

本次電話會議包括前瞻性陳述或關於尚未發生的事件或情況的陳述。巴西航空工業公司的這些前瞻性陳述主要基於其當前對影響業務及其未來財務業績的未來事件和財務趨勢的預期和預測。這些前瞻性陳述受風險、不確定性和假設的影響，其中包括巴西和公司所在的其他市場的一般經濟、政治和商業狀況。

The words believes, may, will, estimates, continues, anticipates, intends, expects and similar words are intended to identify forward-looking statements. Embraer undertakes no obligation to update publicly or revise any forward-looking statements because of new information, future events or other factors. In light of those risks and uncertainties, the forward-looking events and circumstances discussed on this conference call might not occur. The company actual results could differ substantially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements.

相信、可能、將、估計、繼續、預期、打算、期望和類似詞語旨在識別前瞻性陳述。巴西航空工業公司不承擔因新信息、未來事件或其他因素而公開更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述的義務。鑑於這些風險和不確定性，本次電話會議上討論的前瞻性事件和情況可能不會發生。公司的實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中預期的結果大相徑庭。

Participants on today's conference call are Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO; Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer; and Leonardo Shinohara, Director of Investor Relations.

參加今天電話會議的有總裁兼首席執行官 Francisco Gomes Neto；首席財務官 Antonio Carlos Garcia；和投資者關係總監 Leonardo Shinohara。

I would like now to turn the conference over to Francisco who will proceed with the first remarks. Please go ahead, Francisco.

我現在想將會議轉交給 Francisco，他將首先發表講話。請繼續，弗朗西斯科。

Good morning, and thank you all for joining our first quarter 2023 results call today.

早上好，感謝大家今天參加我們的 2023 年第一季度業績電話會議。

We delivered Q1 results according to our expectation. Revenue increased by 19% versus Q1 2022 due to better commercial mix; strong growth in Defense, 56% year-on-year; in Service, 20% year-on-year. Constraints in the supply chain are still present, and we continue to act to mitigate these risks. We see some improvements this year. However, the scenario is still challenging.

我們按照預期交付了第一季度業績。由於更好的商業組合，收入比 2022 年第一季度增長了 19%；國防增長強勁，同比增長 56%；在服務方面，同比增長20%。供應鏈中的限制仍然存在，我們將繼續採取行動減輕這些風險。今年我們看到了一些改進。但是，場景仍然具有挑戰性。

Firm order backlog ended Q1 '23 at $17.4 billion, stable quarter-over-quarter, and driven by evolution in Executive and Services & Support. In the coming quarters, we foresee a better perspective in terms of deliveries, revenue and profitability growth.

截至 23 年第一季度末，公司積壓訂單為 174 億美元，環比穩定，並受到執行和服務與支持發展的推動。在未來幾個季度，我們預計在交付、收入和盈利增長方面會有更好的前景。

We are working in many active sales campaigns with excellent chances of new orders for the years ahead in all business units, particularly Commercial and Defense. We continuously focus on enterprise efficiency in our operations and innovation through our subsidiary, Eve.

我們正在開展許多積極的銷售活動，未來幾年在所有業務部門，尤其是商業和國防部門，都有很好的機會獲得新訂單。我們通過我們的子公司 Eve 不斷關注我們運營和創新中的企業效率。

On the next slide, we will see ESG alignments and achievements. And after that, we will show more details of each business unit in the quarter. Regarding ESG, our sustainability report was launched last month and brings the environmental, social and governance indicators aligned by international standards, GRI and SASB. Our actions are on track, and this was reflected in the improvement of our performance in the CDP report and in the ESG rating agency, MSCI.

在下一張幻燈片上，我們將看到 ESG 一致性和成就。之後，我們將在本季度展示每個業務部門的更多細節。關於 ESG，我們的可持續發展報告於上個月發布，其中包含符合國際標準、GRI 和 SASB 的環境、社會和治理指標。我們的行動步入正軌，這反映在我們在 CDP 報告和 ESG 評級機構 MSCI 中的表現有所改善。

On the next slide, I confirm that Eve has the largest and most diversified backlog with 2,770 LOIs valued at $8.3 billion, the highest in the industry. On the next slides, I will discuss the main highlights of the business units.

在下一張幻燈片中，我確認 Eve 擁有最大和最多樣化的積壓訂單，有 2,770 個 LOI，價值 83 億美元，是業內最高的。在接下來的幻燈片中，我將討論業務部門的主要亮點。

In Commercial Aviation, we have above 200 aircraft under discussion in several campaigns covering all regions of the world. We announced the expansion of our presence in the Asian market with Scoot airlines adding 9 E190-E2 to its fleet and also Binter confirming its order of 10 E195-E2. Reported revenue growth of 17.5% year-on-year to $199 million due to one additional delivery in Q1, with more deliveries of E2 family which has a higher price.

在商用航空領域，我們有超過 200 架飛機正在討論，涉及全球所有地區的多個活動。我們宣布擴大我們在亞洲市場的影響力，Scoot 航空公司為其機隊增加了 9 架 E190-E2，Binter 也確認了其 10 架 E195-E2 的訂單。報告收入同比增長 17.5% 至 1.99 億美元，原因是第一季度增加了一次交付，交付了更多價格更高的 E2 系列。

Executive Aviation continues with a strong book-to-bill in a market going back to normal levels. Revenues were $87 million, 3% lower year-on-year, driven by mix compared to Q1 2022. Our portfolio keeps up with a strong demand and very well positioned with backlog growing quarter-over-quarter with resilient price discipline.

在市場恢復正常水平的情況下，Executive Aviation 繼續保持強勁的訂單出貨比。收入為 8700 萬美元，同比下降 3%，與 2022 年第一季度相比，受組合的推動。我們的產品組合跟上了強勁的需求，並且處於有利地位，積壓訂單環比增長，價格紀律具有彈性。

On Defense, we were very pleased to announce the MOU with Saab to expand the collaboration in several areas, including C-390 Millennium. The C-390 Millennium has been awarded the Final Type Certificate, reflecting its full operational capability, FOC, that the aircraft is capable to perform all the missions for which it was designed. Finally, revenue of $98 million, 56% higher year-on-year due to better C-390 revenue recognition in Q1 2023. Margins show improvement compared to last year.

在國防方面，我們非常高興地宣布與薩博簽署諒解備忘錄，以擴大在多個領域的合作，包括 C-390 Millennium。 C-390 Millennium 已獲得最終型號證書，反映了其完整的運營能力 FOC，該飛機能夠執行其設計的所有任務。最後，收入為 9800 萬美元，同比增長 56%，這歸功於 2023 年第一季度更好的 C-390 收入確認。與去年相比，利潤率有所改善。

On Services & Support, we announced an extension to the service and support agreement with Porter Airlines to include 20 E195-E2 jets to the firm order. With this extension, all 50 aircraft will be supported by the Pool Program for parts and heavy checks. Highlights also included the entry into service support for SalamAir and Endeavor. We announced a Phenom 300 full-flight simulator in Las Vegas in a joint venture with CAE Group.

在服務和支持方面，我們宣布延長與波特航空公司的服務和支持協議，將 20 架 E195-E2 噴氣式飛機納入確認訂單。通過這次延期，所有 50 架飛機都將得到零件和重型檢查聯營計劃的支持。亮點還包括為 SalamAir 和 Endeavor 提供服務支持。我們在拉斯維加斯宣布與 CAE 集團合資推出 Phenom 300 全飛行模擬器。

During the first quarter, we received the first E190 to be converted into a freighter at a dedicated MRO facility for all passenger-to-freight conversions. Revenues of $326 million represent a year-on-year growth of 20%.

在第一季度，我們收到了第一架 E190，將在專門的 MRO 設施中改裝成貨機，用於所有客運到貨運的改裝。收入 3.26 億美元，同比增長 20%。

I will now hand it over to Antonio to give further details on the financial results, and we'll be back with closing remarks.

我現在將把它交給安東尼奧，以提供有關財務結果的更多細節，我們將以結束語返回。

Thank you, Francisco, and good morning, everyone. Before we start with the slides, first quarter results was a solid quarter for us and within expectations. Historically, this quarter is our lowest in terms of deliveries and most other metrics. We met or exceeded our Q1 planned targets in terms of deliveries, revenue, operating profit and cash flow. Sales continue to be strong, and our backlog remains solid.

謝謝弗朗西斯科，大家早上好。在我們開始幻燈片之前，第一季度的業績對我們來說是一個穩健的季度，並且在預期之內。從歷史上看，本季度是我們交付量和大多數其他指標方面最低的。我們在交付、收入、營業利潤和現金流方面達到或超過了第一季度的計劃目標。銷售繼續強勁，我們的積壓訂單依然穩固。

Moving to Slide #9. Embraer delivered 15 jets in the first quarter, 7 in Commercial and 8 in Executive. It is important to point out Commercial deliveries are ahead of last year with an improving mix of aircraft. Last year, we delivered 2 E2s in Q1. This year, we delivered 5 E2s. The E2 is our global aircraft, and both sales and deliveries continue to grow worldwide. In Executive, we delivered 8 business jets on plan and equal to last year.

轉到幻燈片#9。巴西航空工業公司在第一季度交付了 15 架噴氣式飛機，其中 7 架是商用飛機，8 架是公務機。重要的是要指出，隨著飛機組合的改進，商業交付量超過了去年。去年，我們在第一季度交付了 2 個 E2。今年，我們交付了 5 台 E2。 E2 是我們的全球飛機，全球銷量和交付量都在持續增長。在 Executive 方面，我們按計劃交付了 8 架公務機，與去年持平。

Moving to Slide 10. Our firm order backlog ended the quarter at $17.4 billion, basically equal to both year-end 2022 and the end of the first quarter last year. As we deliver aircraft, our sales teams continue to win new aircraft orders and new service contracts at the same rate, so our backlog remains roughly the same. This stability in our backlog is a source of strength and provide us with steady cash flow to support and execute our strategic plan.

轉到幻燈片 10。我們確定的積壓訂單在本季度結束時為 174 億美元，與 2022 年底和去年第一季度末基本持平。當我們交付飛機時，我們的銷售團隊繼續以相同的速度贏得新飛機訂單和新服務合同，因此我們的積壓訂單大致保持不變。我們積壓訂單的這種穩定性是力量的源泉，並為我們提供穩定的現金流來支持和執行我們的戰略計劃。

Moving to net revenue, we ended the first quarter with $717 million of net revenue, $116 million or 19% above the same period last year. The revenue increase is in line with our growth forecast for this year.

轉向淨收入，我們在第一季度結束時的淨收入為 7.17 億美元，比去年同期增長 1.16 億美元或 19%。收入增長符合我們今年的增長預測。

Slide 11. First quarter adjusted EBIT was minus $32 million and adjusted EBITDA was positive $10 million. Both are slightly below the first quarter of 2022, primarily driven by no recurrence of several onetime benefits we had last year. We fully expect our EBIT and EBITDA margins to increase as we leverage our fixed costs as deliveries grow in the remainder of the year.

幻燈片 11。第一季度調整後的 EBIT 為負 3200 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 為正 1000 萬美元。兩者都略低於 2022 年第一季度的水平，這主要是由於我們去年獲得的幾項一次性福利沒有再發生。我們完全預計我們的 EBIT 和 EBITDA 利潤率會隨著今年剩餘時間交付量的增長而利用我們的固定成本而增加。

Slide 12. Free cash flow, excluding Eve, was minus $399 million in the first quarter. This includes cash outflows of over $450 million to build inventory to meet our production requirements for the remainder of the year. We will recover these outflows as we deliver aircraft, and we are affirming our full year guidance of $150 million or better in free cash flow.

幻燈片 12。第一季度，不包括 Eve 在內的自由現金流為負 3.99 億美元。這包括超過 4.5 億美元的現金流出，用於建立庫存以滿足我們今年剩餘時間的生產需求。我們將在交付飛機時收回這些流出，我們確認我們全年的自由現金流指導目標為 1.5 億美元或更高。

Moving to investments. We funded $40 million of product development and research and development and invested $17 million CapEx for an investment total of $57 million in the first quarter. The majority of this went to fund the development of our passenger-to-freighter conversion initiative and invest in additional capacity expansion of our Services & Support unit.

轉向投資。我們為產品開發和研發提供了 4000 萬美元的資金，並投資了 1700 萬美元的資本支出，第一季度的投資總額為 5700 萬美元。其中大部分用於資助我們的客貨機轉換計劃的發展，並投資於我們服務和支持部門的額外產能擴張。

Our net results were minus $89 million. Although negative, the first quarter historically is our weakest period. And with our positive delivery and EBIT margin guidance, we will certainly recover in the quarters ahead.

我們的淨收益為負 8900 萬美元。雖然是負數，但從歷史上看，第一季度是我們最疲軟的時期。憑藉我們積極的交付和息稅前利潤率指引，我們肯定會在未來幾個季度復甦。

Slide 13. We finished the quarter with a net debt, excluding Eve, of $1.4 billion, as shown at the top center of the slide. This is up slightly from year-end due to the increased inventory related to cash outflows, as previously mentioned. Our leverage ratio, shown to the upper right, is at 3.1x, a slight increase from the prior quarter, but a decrease from 4.1x in the same period 1 year ago.

幻燈片 13。如幻燈片頂部中央所示，本季度結束時我們的淨債務（不包括 Eve）為 14 億美元。如前所述，由於與現金流出相關的存貨增加，這比年底略有上升。如右上角所示，我們的槓桿率為 3.1 倍，比上一季度略有上升，但比一年前同期的 4.1 倍有所下降。

The bottom half of the chart shows we ended the quarter with $2.85 billion of liquidity. Our strong liquidity position, combined with future free cash flow, will allow us to cover our debt maturity well past 2027.

圖表的下半部分顯示我們在本季度結束時擁有 28.5 億美元的流動資金。我們強大的流動性狀況，加上未來的自由現金流，將使我們能夠償還 2027 年以後的債務到期日。

With that, I conclude my presentation and hand it back to Francisco for his final remarks. Thank you very much.

至此，我結束了我的演講，並將其交還給 Francisco，讓他發表最後的評論。非常感謝。

Thanks, Antonio. As mentioned, the first quarter reflects the industry seasonality, and we expect more sales activity and better results over the next quarters. There are several sales campaigns underway with excellent growth perspectives in 2024 and years ahead.

謝謝，安東尼奧。如前所述，第一季度反映了行業季節性，我們預計接下來幾個季度會有更多的銷售活動和更好的業績。正在進行多項銷售活動，在 2024 年及未來幾年具有出色的增長前景。

In the past few weeks, I have visited China and Portugal, and we are excited about new business opportunities, especially in commercial, aviation and defense. We expect to bring good news in the coming quarters. Having said that, we are totally committed to the execution of our plan and the guidance for the year.

過去幾週，我訪問了中國和葡萄牙，我們對新的商機感到興奮，尤其是在商業、航空和國防領域。我們預計會在未來幾個季度帶來好消息。話雖如此，我們完全致力於執行我們的計劃和今年的指導方針。

Thanks again for your interest and confidence in our company.

再次感謝您對我們公司的關注和信任。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Josh Milberg from Morgan Stanley.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Josh Milberg。

You provided great color in the Portuguese call on the factors behind the Commercial and Executive gross margin pressure, so thank you very much for that. My question is on Defense and on your indication that the division's revenue this year could be between $600 million and $700 million, if I got -- if we got that right? And I was just hoping you could talk about what variables might move that up or down and also discuss how much visibility you already have on 2024 for Defense. And finally, comment on the status of the opportunity with the U.S. Air Force that you've highlighted in the past. That's my question.

您在葡萄牙電話中就商業和行政毛利率壓力背後的因素提供了很好的色彩，非常感謝您。我的問題是關於國防和你的指示，如果我猜對了，該部門今年的收入可能在 6 億到 7 億美元之間——如果我們猜對了？我只是希望你能談談哪些變量可能會向上或向下移動，並討論你在 2024 年對國防的可見性。最後，評論一下您過去強調的與美國空軍的機會狀態。那是我的問題。

Josh, it's Antonio speaking. Josh, as we -- and we -- I guess, we even discussed before, not that we -- we do see the recovery on Defense starting from 2023 onwards, basically driven by the KC-390. We do have other types of business awarded like radar, but I would say not in the magnitude of the recovery of the C-390. Last year, we were, I would say, in order to retain cash, we were keeping, buying less material than we are doing right now because now we have the contracts for Portugal, for Hungary, and we are even seeing positions for other types of order that we may receive.

喬什，我是安東尼奧。喬希，正如我們——我們——我想，我們之前甚至討論過，而不是我們——我們確實看到國防從 2023 年開始復蘇，這基本上是由 KC-390 驅動的。我們確實獲得了雷達等其他類型的業務，但我想說的不是 C-390 的複蘇幅度。去年，我想說，為了保留現金，我們一直在保留，購買的材料比現在少，因為現在我們有葡萄牙、匈牙利的合同，我們甚至看到了其他類型的頭寸我們可能收到的命令。

I would say the visibility today shows that we are close to the $600 million. If you award the Portugal contract for Super Tucano, $700 million, higher single-digit EBIT margins, let's say positive cash flow.

我想說今天的能見度表明我們接近 6 億美元。如果你授予 Super Tucano 的葡萄牙合同，價值 7 億美元，更高的個位數息稅前利潤率，比方說正現金流。

And for the discussion about U.S. Air Force, I'm going to pass to Francisco.

關於美國空軍的討論，我將轉交給弗朗西斯科。

Thank you, Antonio. Thank you, Josh. Well, I mean the partnership with L3Harris is moving well. We are working together to equip the C-390 with the special systems as the boom refueling system. And we are planning giving a demonstration of the C-390 this year in the U.S. So we're moving about. We are very excited about this opportunity.

謝謝你，安東尼奧。謝謝你，喬希。嗯，我的意思是與 L3Harris 的合作進展順利。我們正在共同努力，為 C-390 配備特殊系統，如動臂加油系統。我們計劃今年在美國展示 C-390。所以我們正在行動。我們對這個機會感到非常興奮。

And Josh, just to complete one point that I forgot to mention, we do see Defense in the range of $800 million for 2024, around, in regards to revenue.

喬什，為了完成我忘記提及的一點，我們確實看到國防在 2024 年左右的收入範圍內達到 8 億美元。

Okay. That's great color, Francisco and Antonio. If I might just actually squeeze in one more. I don't think you addressed this on the Portuguese call. Just if you could talk about the revenue outlook you're seeing for Services & Support, both in '23 and '24. I know that in the past, you've highlighted OGMA's contract with Pratt & Whitney as a source of substantial upside.

好的。顏色真好，弗朗西斯科和安東尼奧。如果我真的可以再擠一個。我不認為你在葡萄牙電話會議上提到了這個問題。就好像你能談談你在 23 年和 24 年看到的服務和支持的收入前景。我知道，在過去，您曾強調 OGMA 與普惠公司的合同是大幅上漲的來源。

Thanks, Josh, for the nice question. We do see this year the Services side around $1.4 billion revenue, and we do see for 2024 around $1.5 billion, at least.

謝謝，喬什，提出了一個很好的問題。我們確實看到今年服務方面的收入約為 14 億美元，我們確實預計到 2024 年至少將達到 15 億美元左右。

Our next question comes from Marcelo Motta from JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的馬塞洛莫塔。

I have a question regarding what do you guys foresee in terms of seasonality of deliveries during this year. I mean we all know that the first quarter is usually a little bit weaker. But when we think about second, third quarter and fourth quarter, I mean, should it be similar to last year? Or should it be a little bit better when we think about especially the second and third quarter?

我有一個問題，關於你們對今年交貨的季節性有何預測。我的意思是我們都知道第一季度通常會稍弱一些。但是當我們考慮第二、第三和第四季度時，我的意思是，它應該與去年相似嗎？或者當我們特別考慮第二和第三季度時它應該好一點嗎？

Thanks, Marcelo, for the nice question. And we -- I need to tell you, we are looking forward to have a more stable distribution among the quarters. We are not foreseeing today a hot Q4 as we saw last year. It's well spread between Q2, Q3 and Q4. For sure, Q3 and Q4 is going to be slightly higher than Q2, but it's better distribution.

謝謝，Marcelo，提出了很好的問題。我們——我需要告訴你，我們期待在各個季度之間有更穩定的分配。今天，我們預計第四季度不會像去年那樣火爆。它很好地分佈在 Q2、Q3 和 Q4 之間。可以肯定的是，Q3 和 Q4 會比 Q2 略高，但分佈更好。

The same we are seeing for Q1 next year, that we do see a much higher Q1 compared with this Q1 in terms of deliveries. Let's say we are moving to the right direction, even face some issues with the suppliers, but it's more better divided than last year.

與明年第一季度的情況相同，我們確實看到第一季度的交付量比第一季度高得多。假設我們正朝著正確的方向前進，甚至面臨與供應商的一些問題，但與去年相比，分歧更大。

And Antonio, if you allow me to complement, we are bringing other challenges to the supply chain because we are increasing the production volume in both in the Commercial and Executive. So again, we were working to stabilize the supply chain, but now we bring higher volumes. That's why we'll see a better distribution of the deliveries throughout the year, but still with a concentration in the Q4 because of higher volumes in '23 comparing to '22.

安東尼奧，如果你允許我補充一下，我們正在給供應鏈帶來其他挑戰，因為我們正在增加商業和行政部門的產量。因此，我們再次努力穩定供應鏈，但現在我們帶來了更高的產量。這就是為什麼我們會看到全年的交付分佈更好，但仍然集中在第四季度，因為與 22 年相比，23 年的交付量更高。

Our next question comes from Cai von Rumohr from Cowen. (Operator Instructions)

我們的下一個問題來自 Cowen 的 Cai von Rumohr。 （操作員說明）

Lou Raffetto from Wolfe Research. So I was not on the Portuguese call, so I was hoping maybe you could provide a little color on the Executive Aviation margins and commercial margins? Just deliveries were essentially flat year-over-year, but margins were significantly lower. So if we start there?

來自 Wolfe Research 的 Lou Raffetto。所以我沒有參加葡萄牙電話會議，所以我希望你能提供一些有關公務航空利潤率和商業利潤率的信息嗎？只是交付量同比基本持平，但利潤率顯著降低。那麼，如果我們從那裡開始呢？

Yes, absolutely, Louis. As I mentioned in the Portuguese version, the Q1 last year was too good compared with this one. And I started -- we did have something like 5%, I would say, onetime effects in Q1 last year that we did not have in '23, point one. Then we have other types of costs like bringing new customer for Commercial Aviation. We have all this new material design, this and this and this and learning curve. We had more E2s than E1s if you compare in a quarterly year-over-year basis. Last year, we delivered 5 E1s and 2 E2s. This year is totally different, it's 75% E2s and E1s. That also does not help in the learning curve in this Q1.

是的，當然，路易斯。正如我在葡萄牙語版本中提到的那樣，去年的Q1與今年相比太好了。我開始 - 我們確實有大約 5%，我想說，去年第一季度的一次性影響是我們在 23 年沒有的，第一點。然後我們還有其他類型的成本，比如為商業航空帶來新客戶。我們擁有所有這些新的材料設計，這個和這個以及這個和學習曲線。如果按季度與去年同期比較，我們的 E2 多於 E1。去年，我們交付了 5 台 E1 和 2 台 E2。今年完全不同，是 75% 的 E2 和 E1。這也無助於第一季度的學習曲線。

I would say, for Executives, it's a bit different. We always -- we also have the good guide last year, something around 5%. Then you have carryover cost from the hottest Q4, [amid the history], to Q1, a little bit [rework]. And we also sold a trade aircraft last year that helps the margin for last year. And on top of it, we -- the mix was a little bit different. We sold -- we delivered Phenom 100 instead the Phenom 300. That also affect the gross margin.

我想說，對於高管來說，情況有點不同。我們總是——去年我們也有很好的指導，大約 5%。然後你有結轉成本從最熱門的 Q4，[在歷史中]，到 Q1，一點點 [返工]。去年我們還出售了一架貿易飛機，這有助於提高去年的利潤率。最重要的是，我們 - 組合有點不同。我們出售了——我們交付了 Phenom 100 而不是 Phenom 300。這也影響了毛利率。

And Lou, it's nothing that's concerning us for the whole year also for the guidance. We should expect Executive Aviation again with double-digit EBIT margin, gross margin above 20%. I would say, everything under control, but the seasonality really make our life difficult in this quarter.

Lou，整整一年我們都沒有關注指導。我們應該期待 Executive Aviation 再次獲得兩位數的息稅前利潤率，毛利率超過 20%。我會說，一切都在掌控之中，但季節性確實讓我們在這個季度的生活變得困難。

All right. That's great color. And then just back over to Defense margins, so 5% EBIT in the quarter, pretty good. You talked about better commercial agreements. So are margins kind of stable here? Or should we expect some continued volatility? Any help from FX this quarter?

好的。那是很棒的顏色。然後回到國防利潤率，所以本季度息稅前利潤為 5%，相當不錯。你談到了更好的商業協議。那麼這裡的利潤率穩定嗎？還是我們應該期待一些持續的波動？本季度外匯有幫助嗎？

Remember when we met for the last time in Boston, we -- I mentioned to you that we were seeing an improvement in Defense. But we have today the EBIT for Q1 on the 5%. And our expectation to be on Defense, a higher single-digit margin for this year and continue to grow in revenue, I would say. As we said, we are fulfilling what we said some weeks ago in Boston.

還記得當我們最後一次在波士頓見面時，我們——我向你提到過我們看到了防守方面的進步。但我們今天的第一季度息稅前利潤為 5%。我想說，我們的期望是在國防方面，今年的利潤率將達到更高的個位數，並且收入將繼續增長。正如我們所說，我們正在兌現幾週前在波士頓所說的話。

All right. Great. And then just last one, again, I think you kind of covered this, but just to be certain. The spike in inventory to support the delivery ramp, last time you kind of saw this level, if we kind of ignore 2020, was back in 2019. You were going to deliver 80 to 90 commercial jets versus 60, 70 this year. So I think you maybe said that there was a little bit of inventory build for Defense, but I just wanted to make sure that we figure that one out.

好的。偉大的。然後是最後一個，我認為你已經涵蓋了這一點，但只是為了確定。支持交付量增加的庫存激增，上一次你看到這個水平，如果我們忽略 2020 年，那是在 2019 年。你將交付 80 到 90 架商用噴氣式飛機，而今年是 60、70 架。所以我想你可能會說國防部有一些庫存構建，但我只是想確保我們能解決這個問題。

I would say 2 or 3 effects, and I will ask Francisco also to comment, but we are growing 20% this year in [medium] and also 20% next year from this perspective. The inventory is really to make sure that we deliver the guidance in this year, but also preparing the field for a very hot and stronger next year.

我會說 2 或 3 個影響，我也會請 Francisco 發表評論，但從這個角度來看，我們今年 [medium] 增長了 20%，明年也增長了 20%。庫存確實是為了確保我們在今年提供指導，同時也為明年的火爆和強勁做準備。

Now I would say both combined and, I would say, and a bit unbalanced because of supplier delays, this and this and this. Just keep in mind, 2019, our revenue was $5.4 billion. It's more or less what we are guiding to the market. Let's say, eventually, it's not what we'd like to see, but I would say in line with the expectation for 2 years of fast growth 2023 and '24.

現在我會說兩者結合，我會說，由於供應商的延遲，這個和這個和這個有點不平衡。請記住，2019 年，我們的收入為 54 億美元。這或多或少是我們對市場的引導。可以說，最終這不是我們希望看到的，但我會說符合 2023 年和 24 年 2 年快速增長的預期。

Francisco, if you want to...

弗朗西斯科，如果你想...

No, I think that's the reason, Cai (sic) [Lou]. And we are now -- as we didn't have a high level of deliveries in Q1, then we are suffering with the cash, right? Because we are ramping up the production, bringing materials for the higher production '23. We are bringing materials for the beginning of 2024 for both Commercial and Executive. And now in Q1, we didn't have higher sales, so higher deliveries, but we expect this to improve from Q2 onwards. But that's the reason we have higher inventory levels.

不，我認為這就是原因，Cai (sic) [Lou]。而我們現在 - 因為我們在第一季度沒有高水平的交付，所以我們正在為現金而苦惱，對吧？因為我們正在提高產量，為更高產量的 '23 帶來材料。我們正在為商業和行政人員帶來 2024 年初的材料。現在在第一季度，我們沒有更高的銷售額，所以沒有更高的交付量，但我們預計從第二季度開始這種情況會有所改善。但這就是我們擁有更高庫存水平的原因。

Our next question comes via phone and the number ends with 7519, please. (Operator Instructions)

我們的下一個問題是通過電話提出的，請以 7519 結尾。 （操作員說明）

This is Steve Trent from Citi. I'm just -- and I will stick to your one question request. I'm just curious when we think about China, I know you mentioned visiting there, I'd just love to sort of get your take on the potential opportunity considering that in the domestic market there, there's a very limited opportunity for commercial aviation slots versus military. And you guys did have the Harbin joint venture in the past, which eventually got shut down. So I'm just curious what you think has changed this time around.

我是花旗銀行的史蒂夫·特倫特。我只是——我會堅持你的一個問題請求。當我們想到中國時，我只是很好奇，我知道你提到過訪問那裡，我只是想听聽你對潛在機會的看法，考慮到在國內市場，商業航空時段的機會非常有限與軍事。你們過去確實有哈爾濱合資企業，但最終倒閉了。所以我很好奇你認為這次發生了什麼變化。

Thanks for your question. So we still have more than 80 aircraft flying in China in different airlines. So Embraer is really interested in coming back to China to expand our footprint there. So -- and we have been working very hard on that.

謝謝你的問題。所以我們還有80多架飛機在不同的航空公司在中國飛行。因此，巴西航空工業公司非常有興趣回到中國擴大我們在那裡的足跡。所以 - 我們一直在努力工作。

And we see as -- that the results of the bilateral meeting between Brazil and China governments is very positive because the joint declaration between both Presidents lays the foundation for a broader cooperation in the aerospace sector. And that declaration positions Embraer as a central player in this partnership. So we see now good perspectives to evolve our activities in China and an open door for a local cooperation and new sales of our commercial jets in that important market.

我們認為，巴西和中國政府雙邊會晤的結果非常積極，因為兩國元首的聯合聲明為航空航天領域更廣泛的合作奠定了基礎。該聲明將 Embraer 定位為該合作夥伴關係的核心參與者。因此，我們現在看到了發展我們在中國的活動的良好前景，並為在這個重要市場開展本地合作和我們的商用噴氣機的新銷售打開了大門。

Great. I appreciate it. And if I may cheat and just have one quick follow-up, do you think that your collaboration with them might be somewhat limited considering that you guys do use a lot of U.S. technology?

偉大的。我很感激。如果我可以作弊並且只進行一次快速跟進，考慮到你們確實使用了很多美國技術，您認為您與他們的合作可能會受到一些限制嗎？

Well, our aircraft uses a lot of U.S. equipments, right, the engine the avionics and many other equipments. So this is what we are working on with the same product that we have.

那麼，我們的飛機使用了很多美國的設備，對，發動機，航電設備和許多其他設備。所以這就是我們正在使用我們擁有的相同產品所做的工作。

Our next question comes via phone also from the number that ends with 1327, please? (Operator Instructions)

我們的下一個問題也是通過電話來自於以 1327 結尾的號碼，好嗎？ （操作員說明）

So maybe give us a little bit more color, if you could, you mentioned discussions of 200 aircraft in Commercial and yet had some trouble closing it, but strong demand in the market. Maybe when we might see some closing, specifically at Paris, what the pricing environment is? And similarly, in Executive, you had a very good book-to-bill, but on very low deliveries. What is the demand tone there and the pricing there?

所以也許給我們多一點顏色，如果可以的話，你提到了商業中 200 架飛機的討論，但在關閉它時遇到了一些麻煩，但市場需求強勁。也許什麼時候我們可能會看到一些關閉，特別是在巴黎，定價環境是什麼？同樣，在 Executive 中，您的訂單出貨比非常好，但交付量非常低。那裡的需求基調和定價是多少？

Well, I mean, regarding Executive, we were expecting this, I mean, low deliveries in the Q1. But the plan is still good and strong for the year. We are planning a growth of about 20% in the production and deliveries of Executive Jets. So we are on track, and we will get there this year.

好吧，我的意思是，關於 Executive，我們預計第一季度的交付量會很低。但這一年的計劃仍然是好的和強大的。我們計劃將 Executive Jets 的生產和交付量增長約 20%。所以我們走上了正軌，我們將在今年實現目標。

Regarding the Commercial jets, yes, we have many campaigns ongoing. I joined Embraer in May 2019, in the year after we had the pandemic impact. But since then, this is the first time I see a lot of campaigns, sales campaigns, active sales campaigns in Commercial Aviation in many different areas of the globe.

關於商用噴氣式飛機，是的，我們正在進行許多活動。我於 2019 年 5 月加入巴西航空工業公司，那是我們受到大流行影響的第二年。但從那時起，這是我第一次在全球許多不同地區看到大量商業航空活動、銷售活動和積極的銷售活動。

So we are optimistic. We believe that we will bring good news in the next quarters about orders for Commercial jets and also for Defense products. So we have in both. You didn't ask about Defense, but in Defense, we are also working many active campaigns. So I think 2023 will be good in terms of new orders for Embraer.

所以我們很樂觀。我們相信，我們將在接下來的幾個季度帶來有關商用噴氣式飛機和國防產品訂單的好消息。所以我們兩者都有。你沒有問到國防，但在國防方面，我們也在開展許多積極的活動。所以我認為 2023 年對 Embraer 的新訂單來說是個好消息。

Excellent. Actually, what I meant on business jets is you had a book-to-bill of 2.5, which is probably the best within the sector. Everybody had particularly weak deliveries in the first quarter. But what are you seeing in terms of on a go-forward basis? Is the demand as strong as it was? Is the pricing -- the net pricing after inflation still as good as it was? Or is it starting to slip?

出色的。實際上，我對公務機的意思是您的訂單出貨比為 2.5，這可能是該行業中最好的。第一季度每個人的交付量都特別低。但是你在前進的基礎上看到了什麼？需求是否像以前一樣強勁？定價 - 通貨膨脹後的淨定價是否仍然像以前一樣好？還是開始下滑了？

Okay, understood. So again, the market is still good for us, not as strong as it was. Marketing is back to normal levels of growth of 1 digit. In our specific case, we see an important change in the mix. We are growing the production and deliveries and growing the mix of Praetors as well. So last year, the mix were -- the mix was about 35% Praetors and 65% Phenoms. And this year, we are almost 50-50 with a growth of about 20%.

好的，明白了。因此，市場仍然對我們有利，不像以前那麼強勁。營銷恢復到 1 位數的正常增長水平。在我們的具體案例中，我們看到了一個重要的組合變化。我們正在增加產量和交付量，同時也在增加 Praetors 的組合。所以去年，混合是——混合大約有 35% 的 Praetors 和 65% 的 Phenom。而今年，我們幾乎是 50-50，增長率約為 20%。

This brings us some more comfortable -- comfort for the next years as well. And we have a very good discipline in terms of price, keeping and even improving the margin of our jets. Of course, the Praetors, they bring more margin, absolute margin in dollars, and we are also keeping the discipline in price. So our sales team is doing a very good job on that. I hope I answered your question now.

這給我們帶來了更多的舒適感——也為接下來的幾年帶來了舒適感。我們在價格方面有很好的紀律，保持甚至提高我們噴氣式飛機的利潤率。當然，Praetors，他們帶來了更多的保證金，以美元計算的絕對保證金，我們也在價格方面保持紀律。所以我們的銷售團隊在這方面做得很好。我希望我現在回答了你的問題。

This concludes today's question-and-answer section and thus concludes Embraer audio conference. Thank you so much for your participation, and have a wonderful day.

今天的問答部分到此結束，Embraer 音頻會議也到此結束。非常感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。