Embraer SA (ERJ) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the audio conference from Embraer's financial results for the fourth quarter of 2022 and full year of 2022. Thank you for standing by. We remind that Eve's results will be discussed on Eve teleconference. Additionally, the numbers in this presentation contain no GAAP financial information to facilitate investors to reconcile Eve's financial information in GAAP standards to Embraer's IFRS. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded and webcasted at ri.embraer.com.br.

女士們先生們，早上好，歡迎來到巴西航空工業公司 2022 年第四季度和 2022 年全年財務業績音頻會議。感謝大家的支持。我們提醒您，Eve 的結果將在 Eve 電話會議上進行討論。此外，本演示文稿中的數字不包含 GAAP 財務信息，以方便投資者將 GAAP 標準中的 Eve 財務信息與 Embraer 的 IFRS 相協調。 （操作員說明）提醒一下，本次會議正在 ri.embraer.com.br 上進行錄製和網絡直播。

This conference call includes forward-looking statements or statements about events or circumstances, which have not occurred. Embraer has based these forward-looking statements largely on its current expectations and projections about future events and financial trends affecting the business and its future financial performance. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions, including, among other things, general economic conditions, political and business conditions in Brazil and in other markets where the company is present.

本次電話會議包括前瞻性陳述或關於尚未發生的事件或情況的陳述。巴西航空工業公司的這些前瞻性陳述主要基於其當前對影響業務及其未來財務業績的未來事件和財務趨勢的預期和預測。這些前瞻性陳述受風險、不確定性和假設的影響，包括但不限於巴西和公司所在的其他市場的一般經濟狀況、政治和商業狀況。

The words believes, may, will, estimates, continues, anticipates, intends, expects and similar words are intended to identify forward-looking statements. Embraer's undertakes no obligations to update publicly or revise any forward-looking statements because of new information, future events or other factors. In light of those risks and uncertainties, the forward-looking events and circumstances discussed on this conference call might not occur. The company actual results could differ substantially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements.

相信、可能、將、估計、繼續、預期、打算、期望和類似詞語旨在識別前瞻性陳述。巴西航空工業公司不承擔因新信息、未來事件或其他因素而公開更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述的義務。鑑於這些風險和不確定性，本次電話會議上討論的前瞻性事件和情況可能不會發生。公司的實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中預期的結果大相徑庭。

It's important to mention that all numbers are presented in U.S. dollar as it is our functional currency.

值得一提的是，所有數字均以美元表示，因為美元是我們的功能貨幣。

Participants on today's conference call are Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO; Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer; Leonardo Shinohara, Director of Investor Relations. And in the Q&A session, we will also participate Arjan Meijer, Commercial Aviation CEO; Michael Amalfitano, Executive Aviation CEO; and Johann Bordais, Services and Support CEO.

參加今天電話會議的有總裁兼首席執行官 Francisco Gomes Neto；首席財務官 Antonio Carlos Garcia；投資者關係總監 Leonardo Shinohara。在問答環節，我們還將參加商業航空首席執行官 Arjan Meijer；執行航空首席執行官 Michael Amalfitano；和服務與支持首席執行官 Johann Bordais。

I would like now to turn the conference over to Francisco, who will proceed with the first remarks. Please go ahead, sir.

我現在想將會議轉交給弗朗西斯科，他將首先發表講話。請繼續，先生。

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining our fourth quarter and 2022 full year results conference call. 2022 will be remembered for overcoming several challenges worldwide, such as the Ukraine war, the rising of global inflation and supply chain constraints. Despite that, we manage the strategic plan to deliver our goals, which was only possible due to teamwork, focus and discipline.

大家，早安。感謝您參加我們的第四季度和 2022 年全年業績電話會議。 2022 年將因克服世界範圍內的多項挑戰而被銘記，例如烏克蘭戰爭、全球通脹上升和供應鏈限制。儘管如此，我們管理戰略計劃以實現我們的目標，這只有通過團隊合作、專注和紀律才能實現。

Another main factor in succeeding our plan was the continued focus on business efficiency, which demanded several mitigation measures throughout the year. In 2022, aircraft delivery grew 12.7%, and reached the mark of 159 commercial and executive aircraft. We also increased revenue to $4.5 billion. Adjusted EBIT and EBITDA margins exceeded the guidance given to the market, reaching 6% and 10%. Moreover, the free cash flow generation grew well above estimates. The total backlog returned to the pre-pandemic level, reaching $17.5 billion.

我們的計劃取得成功的另一個主要因素是持續關注業務效率，這需要全年採取多項緩解措施。 2022年，飛機交付量增長12.7%，達到159架商用和公務機的大關。我們還將收入增加到 45 億美元。調整後的 EBIT 和 EBITDA 利潤率超過了市場指引，達到 6% 和 10%。此外，自由現金流產生的增長遠高於預期。積壓總額恢復到大流行前的水平，達到 175 億美元。

The Executive Aviation presented an outstanding performance in 2022. And in Commercial Aviation, we had several campaigns underway. Here on, I'll talk more about the 2022 highlights of each business unit.

行政航空在 2022 年表現出色。在商業航空方面，我們正在進行多項活動。下面，我將更多地談談每個業務部門的2022年亮點。

On the next slide, we will see some important steps in our journey towards a more sustainable aviation. The Energia program was consolidated with 2 concept aircraft models for 19 to 30 seats with hybrid electric and hydrogen electric propulsion. Together with Pratt & Whitney, we have successfully tested an E195-E2 using 100% sustainable aviation fuel.

在下一張幻燈片中，我們將看到我們邁向更可持續的航空業的一些重要步驟。 Energia 計劃整合了 2 款 19 至 30 座的概念飛機模型，採用混合動力和氫電推進。我們與 Pratt & Whitney 一起成功測試了使用 100% 可持續航空燃料的 E195-E2。

As part of the reducing emission goals in our operations, we anticipate the use of 100% renewable energy in Brazil by 2024. In addition, we signed an agreement with Raizen from the (inaudible) Group to assess the production of sustainable aviation fuels in Brazil, which may contribute to lower emissions across the sector.

作為我們運營中減少排放目標的一部分，我們預計到 2024 年巴西將使用 100% 可再生能源。此外，我們與（聽不清）集團的 Raizen 簽署了一項協議，以評估巴西可持續航空燃料的生產，這可能有助於降低整個行業的排放量。

In the social pillar, we are increasing the hiring of underrepresented groups in our entry-level programs as well as the number of women in senior leadership as part of our goals. Furthermore, we were honored to receive the Great Place to Work certification in several countries where we operate. For us, it is an important recognition to celebrate.

在社會支柱方面，作為我們目標的一部分，我們在入門級計劃中增加了對代表性不足群體的僱用，並增加了高級領導層中的女性人數。此外，我們很榮幸在我們開展業務的多個國家/地區獲得了 Great Place to Work 認證。對我們來說，這是一個值得慶祝的重要認可。

On the next slide, we will see some highlights of last year's business units. In Commercial Aviation, we delivered 57 aircraft, 19% above the previous year. The delivery of the first E195-E2 jets to [Canadian Porter lines] marked the beginning of the E2 operation in North America. Porter has also placed a new order for 20 jets in addition to existing 30 firm orders. Another important sale was 20 E2 jets to [Azorra], a U.S. leasing company. In addition, the Chinese Civil Aviation Authority granted certification for our E190-E2 opening doors for the E2 family in the relevant Chinese market.

在下一張幻燈片上，我們將看到去年業務部門的一些亮點。在商用航空領域，我們交付了 57 架飛機，比上年增長 19%。第一架 E195-E2 噴氣式飛機交付給 [加拿大波特線] 標誌著 E2 在北美運營的開始。除了現有的 30 架確認訂單外，波特還下了 20 架噴氣式飛機的新訂單。另一筆重要的交易是向美國租賃公司 [Azorra] 出售了 20 架 E2 噴氣式飛機。此外，中國民用航空局還為我們的 E190-E2 在中國相關市場的 E2 系列開門認證。

Business Aviation presented excellent results for another year with a 102 aircraft delivery, a strong demand in the entire product portfolio and a sustainable sales level. The Phenom 300 became the world's best-selling light jet for the 11th consecutive year. In defense, the geopolitical scenario continues to influence several countries to invest in renewing their armored forces capabilities. The selection of the [C-390] Millennium as the only aircraft that meets the requirements of the Ministry of Defense of the Netherlands was our year's highlight with a 5 C-390 acquisition forecast. Moreover, we announced the partnership with L3Harris to develop an agile tanker a tactical aerial refueling option to meet the United States Air Force needs.

商務航空再創佳績，交付了 102 架飛機，對整個產品組合的需求強勁，銷售水平可持續。飛鴻 300 連續第 11 年成為全球最暢銷的輕型噴氣機。在國防方面，地緣政治局勢繼續影響多個國家投資更新其裝甲部隊能力。選擇 [C-390] Millennium 作為唯一符合荷蘭國防部要求的飛機是我們今年的亮點，預計採購 5 架 C-390。此外，我們還宣布與 L3Harris 合作開發敏捷加油機，這是一種戰術空中加油選項，可以滿足美國空軍的需求。

Our service and support business continues to evolve positively. In Commercial Aviation, growth was based on full program contract renewals as well as new clients. And in Business Aviation, new clients in the Executive Care program. The service and support backlog grew 8% compared to 2021.

我們的服務和支持業務繼續積極發展。在商業航空領域，增長基於完整的項目合同續籤和新客戶。在公務航空領域，Executive Care 計劃中的新客戶。與 2021 年相比，服務和支持積壓增長了 8%。

Finally, in 2022, we took an important step to consolidate our operations in the urban and mobility segment, a great business opportunity in the coming years. We completed the EV spin-off by listing the company on the New York Stock Exchange, ending the year with potential orders for over 2,700 vehicles valued at $8.3 billion.

最後，在 2022 年，我們邁出了重要的一步，鞏固了我們在城市和交通領域的業務，這在未來幾年是一個巨大的商機。通過在紐約證券交易所上市，我們完成了電動汽車的分拆，到年底，我們獲得了價值 83 億美元的 2,700 多輛汽車的潛在訂單。

Now I hand it over to Antonio to give further details on the financial results and return at the end. Thank you.

現在我將其交給安東尼奧，以提供有關財務結果的更多詳細信息並在最後返回。謝謝。

Thanks, Francisco, and good morning, everyone. 2022 was a great year for us. The entire Embraer one team worked very hard, all the way to the last minute of December, to successfully overcome many external challenges we faced during the year. As a result, I'm proud to share our 2022 financial results with you today.

謝謝，弗朗西斯科，大家早上好。 2022 年對我們來說是偉大的一年。 Embraer One 的整個團隊非常努力，一直到 12 月的最後一分鐘，成功克服了我們在這一年中面臨的許多外部挑戰。因此，今天我很自豪地與大家分享我們 2022 年的財務業績。

Deliveries. We increased the number of aircraft delivered by 12.7% compared with 2021, even with significant supply chain constraint. It's important to note that Q4 deliveries were concentrated around 50% of all deliveries in 2022 with an abnormal seasonality. Embraer delivered 8 jets in the fourth quarter, of which 30 commercial jets and 50 executive jets, there of 33 light jets and 17 midsized jets. In 2022, we produced 61 commercial jets, but delivered 57 with 4 jets postponed to January 2023. Therefore, we slightly missed the guidance.

交貨。與 2021 年相比，我們交付的飛機數量增加了 12.7%，即使供應鏈受到嚴重限制。值得注意的是，第四季度交付量集中在 2022 年所有交付量的 50% 左右，具有異常的季節性。巴西航空工業公司在第四季度交付了 8 架噴氣式飛機，其中 30 架商用噴氣機和 50 架公務機，還有 33 架輕型噴氣機和 17 架中型噴氣機。 2022 年，我們生產了 61 架商用飛機，但交付了 57 架，其中 4 架推遲到 2023 年 1 月。因此，我們略微偏離了指導。

For Executive Aviation, we delivered 102 jets reaching the guidance. Deliveries are gaining traction, and we are optimistic on our 2023 deliveries guidance.

對於公務航空，我們交付了 102 架噴氣式飛機，達到了指導值。交付越來越受歡迎，我們對我們的 2023 年交付指南持樂觀態度。

Firm order backlog ended fourth quarter '22 at $17.5 billion, $500 million more versus Q4 '21. This is one of the highest quarter backlog since the beginning of the pandemic or $800 million more versus Q4 2019, driven by solid sales activities in Executive Aviation and service and support.

截至 22 年第四季度，公司積壓訂單為 175 億美元，比 21 年第四季度多 5 億美元。這是自大流行開始以來積壓最多的季度之一，比 2019 年第四季度多 8 億美元，這主要得益於 Executive Aviation 以及服務和支持方面的穩健銷售活動。

Net revenues reached around $2 billion in the quarter, 44% of the whole year revenue, approximately $700 million compared to Q4 '21, mostly driven by higher revenues and Commercial Executives and service and support, partially offset by lower revenues in defense security.

本季度淨收入達到約 20 億美元，佔全年收入的 44%，與 21 年第四季度相比約為 7 億美元，這主要是由於收入和商業主管以及服務和支持的增加，部分被國防安全收入的減少所抵消。

Revenues reached $4.5 billion in the year, approximately $343 million more compared to 2021 or a growth of 8% in delivering the guidance with revenue well balanced by business units.

全年收入達到 45 億美元，與 2021 年相比增加了約 3.43 億美元，或者在交付指導時增長了 8%，業務部門的收入得到了很好的平衡。

Moving to adjusted EBIT and EBITDA. But before that, I want to report on gross margin. Q4 '22 reported consolidated gross margin of 19.1%, higher than 15% report in Q4 '21 due to volume and mix, 2%; enterprise efficiencies, 1.6%; and one-time actions, 0.4%. In Q4 '22 adjusted EBIT were $166 million, yielding adjusted EBITDA margin of 8.3% or 400 basis points above Q4 '21 even with some negative impacts from provision and SG&A expenses.

轉向調整後的 EBIT 和 EBITDA。但在此之前，我想報告毛利率。 22 年第 4 季度報告的綜合毛利率為 19.1%，高於 21 年第 4 季度報告的 15%，原因是數量和組合為 2%；企業效率，1.6%；一次性行動，0.4%。 22 年第四季度調整後的息稅前利潤為 1.66 億美元，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率比 21 年第四季度高出 8.3% 或 400 個基點，即使撥備和 SG&A 費用產生了一些負面影響。

In Q4 '22, adjusted EBITDA were $228 million, yielding adjusted EBITDA margin of 11.5% or 323 basis points above Q4 '21. For the year, in 2022, reported consolidated gross margin of 20.1%, higher than 15.7% reported in 2021 due to volume increased 1%; enterprise efficiency, 2%; onetime effect, 1.4%. In 2022, gross EBIT were $270 million, yielding adjusted EBIT margin of 6% or 200 basis points above 2021, even with some negative impact from provisions and SG&A, minus 2% and surpassing our guidance. In 2022 adjusted EBITDA were $459 million, yielding adjusted EBITDA margin of 10.1% or 147 basis points above 2021 and also surpassing our guidance.

22 年第四季度，調整後的 EBITDA 為 2.28 億美元，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 11.5%，比 21 年第四季度高出 323 個基點。全年，2022 年綜合毛利率為 20.1%，高於 2021 年的 15.7%，原因是銷量增長 1%；企業效率，2%；一次性效應，1.4%。 2022 年，息稅前利潤總額為 2.7 億美元，調整後的息稅前利潤率為 6%，比 2021 年高出 200 個基點，即使撥備和 SG&A 產生了一些負面影響，負 2% 並超過了我們的指導。 2022 年調整後的 EBITDA 為 4.59 億美元，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率比 2021 年高出 10.1% 或 147 個基點，也超過了我們的指導。

SG&A and investments. SG&A rose 18%, driven by higher sales campaign and market activities compared to 2021, a year is still impacted by COVID as well as commercial concessions and inflation.

SG&A 和投資。 SG&A 上漲 18%，受與 2021 年相比更高的銷售活動和市場活動的推動，這一年仍然受到 COVID 以及商業優惠和通貨膨脹的影響。

Investments. In 2022, Embraer invested a total of $176 million in product development and research, mainly in product development, for example, E2 family, [P2S], Executive Aviation and turboprop products. We invested $66 million CapEx, mainly for service and support expansion. Free cash flow without Eve in Q4 2022 was positive $584 million due to a strong concentration of delivery during this quarter. Free cash flow without Eve in 2022 was positive in $540 million due to the outstanding results and sales performance from Executive Aviation and very strict control over working capital.

投資。 2022年，巴西航空工業公司在產品開發和研究方面的投資總額為1.76億美元，主要用於產品開發，例如E2系列、[P2S]、公務機和渦輪螺旋槳產品。我們投資了 6600 萬美元的資本支出，主要用於服務和支持擴展。由於本季度交付高度集中，2022 年第四季度沒有 Eve 的自由現金流為正 5.84 億美元。由於 Executive Aviation 出色的業績和銷售業績以及對營運資金的嚴格控制，2022 年沒有 Eve 的自由現金流為正，為 5.4 億美元。

Adjusted net results in Q4 '22 was a profit of $43 million or 2.2% of adjusted net profit margin. Adjusted net results in 2022 was a profit of $39 million or 0.8% of adjusted net profit margin, trending positively from enterprise efficiency and less interest expenses.

22 年第四季度調整後的淨利潤為 4300 萬美元，佔調整後淨利潤率的 2.2%。 2022 年調整後的淨利潤為 3900 萬美元，佔調整後淨利潤率的 0.8%，這得益於企業效率和利息支出的減少。

Liquidity. In the top left of the chart, we finished the quarter with a net debt without Eve of $950 million or $457 million less than 2021, in line with our liability management strategy. We reduced gross debt around $824 million compared to 2021, with a significant reduction in net financial expenses on cash flow, $35 million savings in 2022. It's important to highlight that our net debt EBITDA ratio decreased 3.9x in '21 to 2.1x in '22. This is 1.8x decline in just 1 year. The company ended 2022, we faced stronger liquidity of $3.1 billion, including revolving credit facility due to the outstanding free cash flow and the working capital management.

流動性。在圖表的左上角，根據我們的負債管理策略，我們在本季度結束時的淨債務為 9.5 億美元，比 2021 年減少了 4.57 億美元。與 2021 年相比，我們的總債務減少了約 8.24 億美元，現金流的淨財務費用大幅減少，2022 年節省了 3500 萬美元。需要強調的是，我們的淨債務 EBITDA 比率在 21 年下降了 3.9 倍，在 2022 年下降了 2.1 倍。 22.這在短短 1 年內下降了 1.8 倍。公司到 2022 年底，我們面臨 31 億美元的更強流動性，包括由於未償自由現金流和營運資金管理而產生的循環信貸額度。

On the debt side, we reprofiled $300 million of debt from 2024 to 2027 and the maturities of our debt give us a comfortable situation on amortization until 2024. We continue to work on increasing duration and improving the financial metrics at the same time, monitoring for a market window to reprofile our 2025 and future maturities.

在債務方面，我們重新規劃了從 2024 年到 2027 年的 3 億美元債務，我們的債務期限使我們在 2024 年之前的攤銷情況良好。我們繼續致力於增加期限並同時改善財務指標，監測重新規劃我們 2025 年和未來期限的市場窗口。

Rating. It's important to highlight that Moody's affirmed in February 2023, Embraer's rating at Ba2 and raised the outlook for all [ratings] from negative to stable. Standard & Poor's upgrade in February 2023 from BB to BBB+ on solid cash flow. We are 1 notch below the investment grade level and hope to get back the IG level soon.

評分。需要強調的是，穆迪在 2023 年 2 月確認巴西航空工業公司的評級為 Ba2，並將所有 [評級] 的前景從負面上調至穩定。 2023 年 2 月，標準普爾因穩健的現金流將評級從 BB 上調至 BBB+。我們比投資級別低 1 個檔次，希望盡快回到 IG 級別。

Moving to 2023 guidance. I will now guide you through the -- our outlook for 2023 start with deliveries. For Commercial Aviation, we forecast 65 to 70 aircrafts, is still limited by supply chain constraints, an increase of at least 14% then delivered in 2022. For Executive Aviation, we forecast 120 to 130 jets, an increase of at least 18% more jets than delivery in 2022.

轉向 2023 年指南。我現在將引導您完成我們對 2023 年的展望，從交付開始。對於商用航空，我們預測 65 至 70 架飛機，但仍受限於供應鏈限制，比 2022 年交付的飛機增加至少 14%。對於公務航空，我們預測 120 至 130 架噴氣式飛機，至少增加 18%噴氣式飛機比 2022 年交付。

For revenues, between $5.2 billion to $5.7 billion, at least $700 million increase or double-digit growth of around 15% compared what was achieved in 2022. For EBIT. Adjusted EBIT margin of 6.4% to 7.4%. EBITDA margin from 10% to 11%.

對於收入，在 52 億美元至 57 億美元之間，與 2022 年實現的收入相比，至少增加 7 億美元或兩位數增長約 15%。對於息稅前利潤。調整後的息稅前利潤率為 6.4% 至 7.4%。 EBITDA 利潤率從 10% 升至 11%。

In regards to free cash flow, we -- with the substantial revenue growth, we do have some challenges on working capital. Therefore, free cash flow guidance is $150 million or better. As the year progress, we will keep you up to date accordingly, the same we did in the last years.

關於自由現金流，我們 - 隨著收入的大幅增長，我們在營運資金方面確實面臨一些挑戰。因此，自由現金流指導為 1.5 億美元或更高。隨著這一年的進展，我們將相應地讓您了解最新情況，就像我們在過去幾年所做的那樣。

With that, I conclude my presentation and hand it back to Francisco for his final remarks. Thank you very much.

至此，我結束了我的演講，並將其交還給 Francisco，讓他發表最後的評論。非常感謝。

Thank you, Antonio. In my closing remarks, I'd like to comment on this and following years. First of all, the 2022 financial results show that we are making consistent progress in our journey of shifting the company towards a sustainable growth. As we have said, since 2020, the 2021 and 2022 years would be dedicated to the business recovery after 2 simultaneous crisis, the pandemic and the end of the Boeing deal. And the focus will be on growth from 2023.

謝謝你，安東尼奧。在我的結束語中，我想對今年和接下來的幾年發表評論。首先，2022 年的財務業績表明，我們在將公司轉向可持續增長的過程中取得了持續的進展。正如我們所說，自 2020 年以來，2021 年和 2022 年將致力於在 2 個同時發生的危機、大流行和波音交易結束後的業務復甦。重點將放在 2023 年的增長上。

We can now state we had fulfilled what was promised. The business turnaround was completed in 2022, and we are ready to start a new growth phase, capturing the company's full potential in the coming years. We still face supply chain challenges this year, but we are optimistic about the company's future in terms of revenue growth and profitability.

我們現在可以說我們已經實現了承諾。業務轉型於 2022 年完成，我們已準備好開始新的增長階段，在未來幾年充分發揮公司的潛力。今年我們仍然面臨供應鏈挑戰，但我們對公司未來的收入增長和盈利能力持樂觀態度。

Regarding revenue growth, several ongoing sales campaigns are progressing very well in Commercial, Business Aviation and defense area. The aircraft slots on the production line for deliveries in 2023 and 2024 are practically fueled for Commercial Aviation and Executive jets. The service area will continue to grow generating better margins, and we are confident in the improvement of defense results.

關於收入增長，幾個正在進行的銷售活動在商業、公務航空和國防領域進展順利。 2023 年和 2024 年交付的生產線上的飛機槽位實際上是為商用航空和公務機加油的。服務領域將繼續增長，產生更好的利潤，我們對國防成果的改善充滿信心。

The organizational changes announced at the beginning of the year with the creation of new Vice President for Global Procurement and Strategy and Innovation also play a relevant role in accelerating growth. We will give even more focus to the procurement area directly impacting efficiency and value generation.

今年年初宣布的組織變革以及新的全球採購和戰略與創新副總裁的設立也在加速增長方面發揮了相關作用。我們將更加關注直接影響效率和價值創造的採購領域。

In the case of innovation, we will strengthen the integration of these projects in our longer-term strategy, opening new growth opportunities. For this reason, adding our recognized execution capacity to ongoing sales campaigns and innovation projects, we are very confident in Embraer's sustainable growth.

在創新方面，我們將加強這些項目在我們長期戰略中的整合，開闢新的增長機會。因此，將我們公認的執行能力添加到正在進行的銷售活動和創新項目中，我們對巴西航空工業公司的可持續發展充滿信心。

And finally, my thanks to the Embraer team, which overcame all of last year's challenges with outstanding commitment and dedication, always focusing on quality and safety. And thanks for the support of our customers and partners and our shareholders for their trust in our company.

最後，我要感謝 Embraer 團隊，他們以卓越的承諾和奉獻精神克服了去年的所有挑戰，始終專注於質量和安全。並感謝客戶和合作夥伴的支持以及股東對我們公司的信任。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Ronald Epstein from Bank of America.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自美國銀行的羅納德愛潑斯坦。

Yes. Can you hear me, okay?

是的。你能聽到我說話嗎？

Yes, we can, Ron. Go ahead.

是的，我們可以，羅恩。前進。

Great. Great. So maybe just a couple of quick questions. How should we think about Embraer in the Chinese market? Typically, right, aircraft don't get certified in a market unless deliveries are imminent. So how should we think about that?

偉大的。偉大的。所以也許只是幾個簡單的問題。我們應該如何看待巴西航空工業公司在中國市場？通常，正確的是，除非交付迫在眉睫，否則飛機不會在市場上獲得認證。那麼我們應該如何考慮呢？

Since we have Arjan here with us, Arjan, can you jump in and answer this cross question?

既然我們有 Arjan 和我們一起，Arjan，你能插進來回答這個交叉問題嗎？

Absolutely, Francisco. Thank you, Ron, for the question. I think the great news in 2022 was that the 190-E2 was certified. We've been in the process to add the 195-E2 to that. We strongly believe that the 190 and the 195 combination in China is a very strong addition to the local portfolio of the ARJ21, which falls slightly below our segment and the 919, which is the narrowbody, the Chinese industry with COMAC will bring to the market. It's a gap where there are no Chinese products. The 190 had an incredible performance and is very useful for the higher level [airports] in Tibet and plateau. And the 195-E2 obviously, is a great complement to the narrowbody aircraft in China.

當然，弗朗西斯科。羅恩，謝謝你提出這個問題。我認為 2022 年的好消息是 190-E2 通過了認證。我們一直在努力將 195-E2 添加到其中。我們堅信，中國的 190 和 195 組合是對 ARJ21 本地產品組合的一個非常強大的補充，ARJ21 略低於我們的細分市場和窄體 919，中國工業與 COMAC 將推向市場.這是一個沒有中國產品的空白。 190的性能非常好，對西藏和高原的更高級別[機場]非常有用。而 195-E2 顯然是對中國窄體飛機的一個很好的補充。

We believe a great vehicle to help the Chinese connect the many airports that are being created in China that need a very efficient aircraft. So we're very bullish about the Chinese markets, and we're working with airlines already. We have a team in Beijing at the moment to see if we can campaigns over the line.

我們相信這是一個偉大的工具，可以幫助中國人連接中國正在建設的許多機場，這些機場需要非常高效的飛機。所以我們非常看好中國市場，我們已經在與航空公司合作。我們目前在北京有一個團隊，看看我們是否可以在線上開展活動。

Got it. And if I could follow on to that question. Given all the tension right now between the U.S. and China and kind of what that means for Boeing. Does that been an opportunity for you guys? I mean -- I don't know how you can answer that, but if you could give it a shot.

知道了。如果我可以繼續回答那個問題。鑑於目前美國和中國之間的緊張局勢以及這對波音公司意味著什麼。這對你們來說是一個機會嗎？我的意思是——我不知道你怎麼回答這個問題，但如果你能試一試的話。

Well, obviously, with our segment, we are in the lower segment than narrowbodies than Boeing. But we do believe that with the Brazilian product, we had a very interesting alternative to the Chinese airlines. So I think the moment is key. China wants to really connect the country and the domestic markets. And I think getting an aircraft that is -- that can complement either [MAX or Neo] and obviously, on the short-term will be more Neos. The 195-E2 is able to deliver economics that are very close on a per seat basis to A320. So we believe that independent of what's happened to Boeing, it is a great addition to that market.

好吧，很明顯，在我們的細分市場中，我們處於比窄體機比波音更低的細分市場。但我們確實相信，通過巴西產品，我們有一個非常有趣的替代中國航空公司的選擇。所以我認為現在是關鍵。中國希望真正連接國家和國內市場。而且我認為獲得一架可以補充 [MAX 或 Neo] 的飛機，顯然，在短期內將會有更多的 Neos。 195-E2 能夠提供非常接近 A320 的每座經濟性。所以我們相信，不管波音公司發生了什麼，它都是對該市場的一個很好的補充。

Great. And then maybe just one last one on commercial. How should we think about new product development in commercial, right? I mean the turboprop was halted, if that's right. So where to now -- I mean, Embraer has always been very innovative when it comes to new products. And how should we think about that?

偉大的。然後也許只是最後一個商業廣告。我們應該如何考慮商業新產品開發，對嗎？我的意思是渦輪螺旋槳發動機停止了，如果那是對的話。那麼到現在 - 我的意思是，巴西航空工業公司在新產品方面一直非常創新。我們應該如何考慮？

Yes, that's a great question, Ron. We -- the turboprop on a slowdown at the moment. We have not disbanded the project, if you will, but we need to have more in-depth conversation with the system supply. So that's definitely a product where we believe there could be a market.

是的，這是一個很好的問題，羅恩。我們——渦輪螺旋槳發動機目前正在減速。如果你願意，我們還沒有解散該項目，但我們需要與系統供應商進行更深入的對話。所以這絕對是我們認為可能有市場的產品。

On the slightly longer-term, the Energia platform is really something that we're spending a lot of time on. We had our first [airline] Advisory Board at the end of 2022 to really understand what the feasibility is of smaller aircraft with a much more sustainable footprint than the bigger aircraft. So a lot of focus on the long-term sustainability agenda and the roadmap I have for Commercial Aviation. We believe the E2 has a great footprint in terms of CO2. We're working on getting that aircraft also 100% SAF.

從長遠來看，Energia 平台確實是我們花費大量時間的東西。我們在 2022 年底成立了第一個 [航空公司] 諮詢委員會，以真正了解與大型飛機相比，具有更可持續足蹟的小型飛機的可行性。因此，我非常關注長期可持續發展議程和商業航空路線圖。我們相信 E2 在二氧化碳方面的足跡很大。我們正在努力讓這架飛機也 100% 使用 SAF。

The turboprop will still exist in technology, but more efficient than anything out there, more seats and also 100% SAF capable. And then below that, the Energia platform, which is, of course, further out. There's a lot of work to be done. It's still concept, but we're looking very closely at that part of the market as well.

渦輪螺旋槳飛機仍將存在於技術中，但比現有的任何東西都更有效率，更多的座位和 100% 的 SAF 能力。然後在其下方是 Energia 平台，當然，它更遠。有很多工作要做。它仍然是概念，但我們也在密切關注這部分市場。

And maybe using the opportunity, Ron, while I have the microphone, there was a comment on the introduction about 20 aircraft order by U.S. lessor. That deal was announced early '22, but was part of the 2021 backlog. So we had 60 aircraft in our order book. It did include the 20 -- the 20 aircraft from the lease company were in the 2021 on the book, just to be precise. Thank you.

羅恩，也許利用這個機會，當我拿著麥克風時，有人對美國出租人關於 20 架飛機訂單的介紹發表了評論。該交易於 22 年初宣布，但屬於 2021 年積壓訂單的一部分。所以我們的訂單中有 60 架飛機。它確實包括 20 架——準確地說，租賃公司的 20 架飛機在賬簿上是 2021 年。謝謝。

Our next question comes from Luis from Wolfe Research Please.

我們的下一個問題來自 Wolfe Research Please 的 Luis。

Can you guys hear me?

你們能聽到我說話嗎？

Yes, we can hear you, Luis.

是的，我們能聽到你的聲音，路易斯。

Maybe just to up on Ron's question, I guess -- you mentioned your active campaign. So any additional color you can give? I think you guys are expecting a stronger book-to-bill in 2022 than what you kind of wound up with. So just how do you see this year playing out?

也許只是為了回答羅恩的問題，我猜——你提到了你積極的競選活動。那麼你可以給任何額外的顏色嗎？我認為你們期望 2022 年的訂單出貨比比你們最終得到的更好。那麼你如何看待今年的比賽呢？

Want me to continue on that one, Francisco?

要我繼續講那個嗎，弗朗西斯科？

Yes. Go ahead, and maybe Michael can complement you as well from the executive side.

是的。繼續吧，也許 Michael 也可以在執行方面為您提供補充。

Yes. Very quickly, obviously, we can't comment on individual campaigns. But what I can say is that as Francisco noted on his opening speech, is that we see a lot of appetite for the segments. I think pre-crisis, we were in the uncertainty with the Boeing deal. During the crisis. Obviously, the market was very slow. But now post-crisis, we see a different market ahead. We see a lot of [interest] from airlines in being risk averse, looking at different ways to do business. So there's a lot of appetite in the smaller segment.

是的。很快，顯然，我們無法對個別活動發表評論。但我能說的是，正如弗朗西斯科在開幕詞中指出的那樣，我們看到了對這些細分市場的強烈興趣。我認為在危機前，我們在波音交易中處於不確定狀態。在危機期間。顯然，市場非常緩慢。但現在危機過後，我們看到了一個不同的市場。我們看到航空公司在規避風險、尋找不同的經營方式方面表現出很多[興趣]。因此，較小的細分市場有很大的胃口。

You may have seen the announcement of an LOI from Scoot in Asia. That's one of the information that's out there. That's great news for the E2 program. We really see new airlines interested, but we also see a golden moment ahead of us for current E-Jet operators looking at an aircraft, so bullish about the future. But hopefully, we can share more information later.

您可能已經看到酷航在亞洲發布的意向書公告。這是那裡的信息之一。這對 E2 計劃來說是個好消息。我們確實看到新的航空公司對此感興趣，但我們也看到當前 E-Jet 運營商正在尋找飛機的黃金時刻，他們對未來非常看好。但希望我們以後可以分享更多信息。

Michael, do you want to add something from your side?

邁克爾，你想從你這邊補充點什麼嗎？

Thank you so much, Francisco, and thank you again for the question, Luis. Market Executive Aviation is extremely strong, very robust. We have book-to-bill in excess of 2:1. We have market interest from all of our customers across all 4 product sectors. Most specifically, obviously, with the Phenom 300E and the Praetor 600 capturing significant market share growth as we look ahead into that backlog.

非常感謝 Francisco，再次感謝 Luis 提出的問題。 Market Executive Aviation 非常強大，非常穩健。我們的訂單出貨比超過 2:1。我們對所有 4 個產品領域的所有客戶都有市場興趣。最具體地說，很明顯，隨著我們展望這些積壓訂單，Phenom 300E 和 Praetor 600 獲得了顯著的市場份額增長。

We are currently selling positions in first and second quarter 2025 across the sector with the aircraft for '23 and '24 completely sold out. The market remains very robust in terms of demand, obviously we're managing all the characteristics that you heard from Francisco and Antonio regarding our challenges on the supply side, and we're looking forward to maintain pricing, we are looking forward to a continued robust earnings cash generation for the corporation.

我們目前正在出售整個行業 2025 年第一季度和第二季度的頭寸，23 年和 24 年的飛機已全部售罄。市場在需求方面仍然非常強勁，顯然我們正在管理您從 Francisco 和 Antonio 那裡聽到的關於我們在供應方面面臨的挑戰的所有特徵，我們期待維持定價，我們期待持續為公司帶來強勁的盈利現金。

All right. Great. And maybe just to kind of follow up on what you guys just said there, this is for both of you. Were there -- was engine availability an issue for you as you look to the '23 guidance for going on any of the deliveries?

好的。偉大的。也許只是為了跟進你們剛才所說的話，這是給你們倆的。在那裡 - 當您查看 '23 指南進行任何交付時，發動機可用性對您來說是一個問題嗎？

For commercial aviation, engines are certainly part of the supply chain challenges ahead of us, but it is included in our guidance.

對於商業航空而言，發動機無疑是我們面臨的供應鏈挑戰的一部分，但它包含在我們的指南中。

Yes. Luis, on our end, we're facing the same supply challenges that the entire industry is facing across aerospace. We don't believe that we're going to be adversely impacted any more or less than anyone else in the sector. But however, we have phenomenal relationships engaged with our supply chain, especially with the chipset providers, so that we don't see any major disruptions for '23 or beyond as we continue to manage through those relationships.

是的。路易斯，就我們而言，我們面臨著整個航空航天行業所面臨的同樣的供應挑戰。我們不認為我們會比該行業的任何其他人受到更多或更少的不利影響。但是，我們與我們的供應鏈，尤其是與芯片組供應商建立了非凡的關係，因此在我們繼續管理這些關係的過程中，我們不會看到 23 世紀或以後的任何重大中斷。

Our next question comes via phone and the number ends in 632723. (Operator Instructions)

我們的下一個問題來自電話，號碼以 632723 結尾。（操作員說明）

Noah Poponak.

諾亞·波波納克。

yes, go ahead.

好，去吧。

Okay. Okay. Great. Do you expect book-to-bill above 1 or below 1 in Commercial and Executive in 2023?

好的。好的。偉大的。您預計 2023 年商業和行政部門的訂單出貨比是高於 1 還是低於 1？

And Michael, you can answer this as well.

邁克爾，你也可以回答這個問題。

Yes. I'll -- what I'll say about the book-to-bill for 2023 is that on the U.S. markets on the E-Jet 175-E1, we still see some challenges on the pilot shortage. So I think that market will be less strong than what we've seen in the previous number of years. On the E2, I just elaborated on that. We're very bullish about the opportunities, and we hope to have a good performance there on 2023. On average, I'd say around book-to-bill or better. Hopefully, that's where we end up. But it's a bit early to say.

是的。關於 2023 年的訂單出貨比，我要說的是，在美國市場上的 E-Jet 175-E1，我們仍然看到飛行員短缺的一些挑戰。所以我認為市場將不如我們在前幾年看到的那麼強勁。在 E2 上，我只是詳細說明了這一點。我們非常看好這些機會，我們希望在 2023 年在那裡有一個良好的表現。平均而言，我會說大約從訂單到賬單或更好。希望這就是我們的結局。但現在說還為時過早。

Michael?

邁克爾？

Yes, just to follow up on the Executive Aviation side. As I mentioned, in 2022, our book-to-bill was consistently in excess of 2:1. In 2023, obviously, we'll see some slight reduction as the marketplace continues to calm to more normal levels. However, our demand for our products across the sector remains very strong. So we anticipate that we will be at the high end of any historical book-to-bill averages for the industry.

是的，只是為了跟進行政航空方面。正如我提到的，在 2022 年，我們的訂單出貨比一直超過 2:1。顯然，到 2023 年，隨著市場繼續平靜到更正常的水平，我們會看到一些小幅減少。然而，我們對整個行業產品的需求仍然非常強勁。因此，我們預計我們將處於該行業任何歷史訂單出貨比平均值的高端。

On the pilot shortage piece, that commercial, do you view that as cyclical temporary? There's a pilot shortage now, but we'll get more pilots, maybe you get some scope relief at some point. Or should we be now thinking of that as structural to your business where it's really hard to get scope change? And because there's a pilot shortage across the board, formerly regional pilots are all moving to mainline and then the carriers order large narrowbody, Boeing and Airbus aircraft and just kind of move on from your segment of the market, and therefore, it's a little bit more locked in?

關於飛行員短缺問題，即商業廣告，您認為這是周期性的暫時現象嗎？現在飛行員短缺，但我們會得到更多的飛行員，也許你會在某個時候得到一些範圍上的緩解。或者我們現在是否應該將其視為您的業務的結構，因為在這種情況下很難改變範圍？而且由於全面飛行員短缺，以前的區域飛行員都轉向幹線，然後承運人訂購大型窄體飛機、波音和空客飛機，然後從你所在的市場部分轉移，因此，有點更鎖定？

Yes. I'll try to be short on that answer, but it's a complex area. But what I would say is that a change in scope has been -- has proven to be very difficult over the last couple of years. So we don't really expect that change to happen. What is important is the connectivity in the United States. There is a lot of airports that will struggle to handle the bigger narrowbodies. We do see a continuing interest from the majors in the segments.

是的。我會盡量簡短地回答這個問題，但這是一個複雜的領域。但我要說的是，在過去幾年中，範圍的改變已經被證明是非常困難的。所以我們真的不希望這種變化發生。重要的是美國的連通性。有很多機場將難以處理更大的窄體機。我們確實看到了這些領域的專業人士的持續興趣。

So we do believe there is a cyclical trend here. It will not be solved in the short-term. It will probably take 1 or 2 more years to restabilize, but we do believe that there's a lot of focus on getting that issue resolved. We're seeing both the majors and the regionals spending money and time on increasing the amount of pilots to be trained. And what we also see is that a lot of pilots are still caught up in the training system because of the COVID scenario. So we're still in the tunnel when it comes to pilot training, but we do believe that we will come out and come to a more stabilized scenario in the period ahead of us.

因此，我們確實相信這裡存在周期性趨勢。短期內解決不了。可能需要 1 或 2 年的時間才能重新穩定下來，但我們確實相信人們非常關註解決該問題。我們看到各大航空公司和地區航空公司都在花費金錢和時間來增加接受培訓的飛行員數量。而且我們還看到，由於 COVID 情況，許多飛行員仍然被困在培訓系統中。因此，就飛行員培訓而言，我們仍處於隧道中，但我們確實相信，我們會在未來的一段時間內走出來並進入一個更加穩定的場景。

Okay. Great. Is it possible to quantify, just lastly, expenses in '22 that do not repeat in '23, whether that's related to turboprop investment or legal or otherwise?

好的。偉大的。最後，是否有可能量化 22 年沒有在 23 年重複出現的費用，無論是與渦輪螺旋槳飛機投資、法律還是其他方面有關？

Antonio, maybe you can get this one. You're on mute. He's asking about the expenses with -- related to the turboprop. I think Antonio is having problem with the audio. Maybe, Arjan, maybe you can come with this answer?

安東尼奧，也許你可以得到這個。你靜音了他在詢問與渦輪螺旋槳發動機相關的費用。我認為 Antonio 的音頻有問題。也許，Arjan，也許你可以得出這個答案？

On the turboprop, obviously, we've put the program...

在渦輪螺旋槳發動機上，顯然，我們已經把程序...

I'm back. I'm back.

我回來了。我回來了。

Sorry. Go ahead, Antonio.

對不起。來吧，安東尼奧。

Okay. Go ahead, Antonio.

好的。來吧，安東尼奧。

I would say around, if I take the turboprop and less legal costs, I would say, something like 1% EBIT margin comparing on margins of '22, which is more or less give us some good visibility to more upside than downside trend for EBIT margin.

我想說的是，如果我採用渦輪螺旋槳發動機和更少的法律成本，我會說，與 22 年的利潤率相比，大約 1% 的息稅前利潤率，這或多或少讓我們對息稅前利潤的上升趨勢多於下降趨勢有了很好的了解利潤。

Our next question comes via phone from the number ended with 1339. (Operator Instructions)

我們的下一個問題是通過電話從以 1339 結尾的號碼來的。（操作員說明）

Can you hear me?

你能聽到我嗎？

Yes, yes, we can.

是的，是的，我們可以。

So maybe a follow-up on pricing. So at one point, the issue was a lot of your commercial deliveries were 175s to major U.S. airlines with very tight pricing. Comment if you could on what's left to go of 175s, what's the pricing there? And also the pricing on the E2? And then in the biz jet in the executive sector, I think everybody has been talking about stronger pricing. But more recently, some of the U.S. producers have been talking about inflation catching up so that pricing just offsets inflation. Do you still have any net price gains to go in the business jet area?

所以也許是定價的後續行動。所以在某一時刻，問題是你的很多商業交付都是 175s 到美國主要航空公司，價格非常低。如果你能評論一下 175s 還剩下什麼，那裡的價格是多少？還有E2的定價？然後在行政部門的公務機上，我想每個人都在談論更強大的定價。但最近，一些美國生產商一直在談論通貨膨脹正在迎頭趕上，因此定價正好抵消了通貨膨脹。您在公務機領域還有任何淨價格收益嗎？

Arjan and Michael. Yes.

阿爾讓和邁克爾。是的。

I'll start on the Commercial Aviation side. On the 175-E1, we have -- we tried to get -- to keep the pricing discipline over the last couple of years, and I think we've been fairly successful on that. There are, of course, some deals from a few years ago. They are still causing some pricing pressure on the 175-E1. But let's not forget that the price increase in the market needs to find its way into the pricing of aircraft as well. We're doing our best to keep that to a minimum. But that needs to be recovered as well.

我將從商業航空方面開始。在 175-E1 上，我們已經——我們試圖——在過去幾年保持定價紀律，我認為我們在這方面相當成功。當然，也有一些幾年前的交易。它們仍在對 175-E1 造成一些定價壓力。但我們不要忘記，市場價格的上漲也需要影響到飛機的定價。我們正在盡最大努力將其保持在最低限度。但這也需要恢復。

On the E2, we -- of course, we have the -- we want to be very sensitive on the pricing. I think we're successful there. But also, we are very aware that we need to bring E2 into the market and build our market share. We believe we have a chance to do that now. So it's finding that balance going forward.

在 E2 上，我們——當然，我們有——我們希望對定價非常敏感。我認為我們在那裡是成功的。而且，我們非常清楚我們需要將 E2 推向市場並建立我們的市場份額。我們相信我們現在有機會做到這一點。所以它正在尋找未來的平衡。

And then on the Executive Aviation side of the business, we've raised prices on all 4 product segments. This has been provided to the market for 2023. It's important to note that our goal remains to be delivering the ultimate experience in Business Aviation. In order to do that, you have to also deliver superior value to your customers. So we're going to continue to push price as long as we can continue to maintain market share and growth to service the demand and customer commitments that we have in the industry.

然後在業務的公務航空方面，我們提高了所有 4 個產品類別的價格。這已提供給 2023 年的市場。重要的是要注意，我們的目標仍然是提供公務航空的終極體驗。為此，您還必須為客戶提供卓越的價值。因此，只要我們能夠繼續保持市場份額和增長以滿足我們在行業中的需求和客戶承諾，我們就會繼續推高價格。

Great. And if I might ask one follow-up to Ron's question about China. You mentioned that the E190 and 195 are good fit versus the products that China is buying, but what about the A220? It would look like is that a direct competitor? And to what extent is that a major threat to your sales in China?

偉大的。如果我可以就羅恩關於中國的問題提出一個後續問題。您提到 E190 和 195 與中國正在購買的產品非常匹配，但是 A220 呢？看起來這是一個直接的競爭對手？這在多大程度上對您在中國的銷售構成重大威脅？

At the moment, when the A220 gets certified, for sure, we will compete in maybe a share of the market. But the [E2] and A220 are slightly different aircraft in the market. And I believe, as I described earlier, with the combination of the (inaudible) performance of 190, the cost performance of the 195-E2, which is really stellar, but also the gap to the narrowbodies, we see that the 195 respects a bigger gap to the narrowbody segment, which allows the airlines to play the value difference between those aircraft even more with the E2 family than with the A220 family. We believe for China, it's a very attractive combination of aircraft. But of course, there will always be markets where we will see competition. But we're confident that the E2 has a good place there.

目前，當 A220 獲得認證時，我們肯定會爭奪市場份額。但 [E2] 和 A220 是市場上略有不同的飛機。而且我相信，正如我之前描述的那樣，結合 190 的（聽不清）性能和 195-E2 的性價比，這真的很出色，但也與窄體機有差距，我們看到 195 尊重與窄體機段的差距更大，這使得航空公司可以通過 E2 系列而不是 A220 系列發揮這些飛機之間的價值差異。我們相信對於中國來說，這是一個非常有吸引力的飛機組合。但當然，總會有我們會看到競爭的市場。但我們相信 E2 在那裡佔有一席之地。

Our next question comes from Victor Mizusaki from Bradesco BBI for Mr. Victor.

我們的下一個問題來自 Bradesco BBI 的 Victor Mizusaki 先生。

Congrats for the 4Q numbers. I have one question here. In the conference call in Barclays, you gave some details about the discussions in India. Apparently, you mentioned about the potential order of like (inaudible). So my question near is when to expect the -- I mean, let's say, to be confirmed, if there is something that can happen this year? And if you can also comment if there is something else related to Commercial Aviation?

祝賀 4Q 數字。我在這裡有一個問題。在巴克萊銀行的電話會議中，您提供了有關印度討論的一些細節。顯然，您提到了喜歡的潛在順序（聽不清）。所以我的問題是什麼時候可以期待 - 我的意思是，讓我們說，確認今年是否會發生什麼？如果還有其他與商業航空相關的內容，您是否也可以發表評論？

Okay, Victor, thanks for the question. Francisco speaking. I mean it's tough to predict, but the information we have is that this process can last a couple of years.

好的，維克多，謝謝你的提問。弗朗西斯科說話。我的意思是很難預測，但我們掌握的信息是這個過程可以持續幾年。

Okay. And Francisco, this is only about defense? Or maybe if -- I mean you have from -- let's say, if the negotiation evolves, that maybe this can also be extended to Commercial Aviation?

好的。還有弗朗西斯科，這只是關於防禦？或者如果——我的意思是你有——比方說，如果談判取得進展，也許這也可以擴展到商業航空？

This process, the RFE, I mean, request for information, [RFI] basically for the C39 from 40 to 80 units. But we have been in contact with India for other opportunities. Maybe Arjan can talk a little bit more about the opportunity we have in India. And yes, we -- as we will need a partnership there for the military aircraft, this might be combined with Commercial [airline]. Feel free to add some more information here. You are on mute, Arjan.

這個過程，RFE，我的意思是信息請求，[RFI] 基本上是針對 C39 從 40 到 80 個單元。但我們一直在與印度接觸以尋求其他機會。也許 Arjan 可以多談談我們在印度的機會。是的，我們——因為我們需要在那裡建立軍用飛機的合作夥伴關係，這可能與商業 [航空公司] 相結合。請隨時在此處添加更多信息。你靜音了，Arjan。

Yes, that's not very helpful. Thank you, Francisco. Yes, we see -- well, like China, we see a great application for the 190, 195 also in India, the previous E-Jet family struggled to get to the right cost level vis-à-vis the much bigger narrowbodies. We're always talking to the Indian customers. We believe that there is a great market to complement also that in narrowbodies. And if there is a way to combine that with partnership, then it could be a potential combination. But it will be a somewhat longer-term outcome.

是的，這不是很有幫助。謝謝你，弗朗西斯科。是的，我們看到了——好吧，就像中國一樣，我們在印度也看到了 190、195 的巨大應用，與更大的窄體機相比，以前的 E-Jet 系列難以達到合適的成本水平。我們一直在與印度客戶交談。我們相信窄體機市場也有很大的市場可以補充。如果有辦法將其與合作夥伴關係結合起來，那麼它可能是一種潛在的組合。但這將是一個更長期的結果。

Our next question comes from Josh Milberg from Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Josh Milberg。

You guys have covered a lot of ground, but I had a few additional follow-ups on the commercial side and the demand outlook there. And one is just you mentioned the number of campaigns underway. And I wanted to ask if you could give a rough idea of the total number of potential aircraft sales contemplated in those campaigns?

你們已經涵蓋了很多領域，但我在商業方面還有一些額外的後續行動和那裡的需求前景。其中之一就是您提到了正在進行的活動數量。我想問您是否可以大致了解這些活動中預期的潛在飛機銷售總數？

And then with respect to China, I wanted to ask you guys if you could comment on how broad that opportunity is in terms of the number of airlines for which the E2 could make sense? And then just finally, on the E1 side, I know you have that pilot issue in the U.S. But in the past, you've talked about the replacement opportunity being some 500 aircraft in the next 10 years as a function of aircraft aging. And I just wanted to see if you're still seeing the market it that way.

然後關於中國，我想問你們是否可以就 E2 可能有意義的航空公司數量而言，這個機會有多廣泛？最後，在 E1 方面，我知道你在美國有飛行員問題。但在過去，你曾談到在未來 10 年內更換約 500 架飛機的機會是飛機老化的結果。我只是想看看你是否仍然以這種方式看待市場。

Thank you, Josh. That's a triple layer question. So let me start with the E2 campaigns. We're having a big number of discussions, some are more advanced, some are less advanced. But I think if you add it up, you're talking about several triple-digit number of E2. So there's a good number of opportunities out there that we're talking about at the moment. On China, it's a little bit early. Let's not forget that the aircraft has only certified at the end of next year, and China is just opening up. But as I said, we have a big local team in China that is talking to all the airlines. So we hopefully can specify that a little bit sooner but I think it's too early today.

謝謝你，喬希。這是一個三層問題。那麼讓我從 E2 活動開始。我們正在進行大量討論，有些比較先進，有些不太先進。但我認為，如果將它加起來，就是 E2 的幾個三位數。因此，我們目前正在談論的機會很多。在中國，現在有點早。別忘了，飛機明年年底才取證，中國才剛剛開放。但正如我所說，我們在中國有一個龐大的本地團隊，正在與所有航空公司進行交流。所以我們希望可以早一點具體說明，但我認為今天還為時過早。

On the E1s, that opportunity that we're talking about, about 500 aircraft, we still see that ahead of us. Obviously, the airlines will be a little bit reluctant at moments to add aircraft if they can't bring the pilots in. But we believe as soon as they see that going to a better place than that opportunity will come back. So we believe the 175-E1 short-term we'll have to wait for the opportunities. But longer-term, we definitely believe there's a lot of regional capacity to be replaced or added.

在 E1 上，我們正在談論的那個機會，大約 500 架飛機，我們仍然看到它在我們面前。顯然，如果航空公司不能讓飛行員進來，他們有時會有點不願意增加飛機。但我們相信，一旦他們看到去一個比那個更好的地方，機會就會回來。所以我們認為175-E1短期我們還是要等待機會。但從長遠來看，我們絕對相信有很多區域產能需要更換或增加。

This does conclude today's question-and-answer section and the Embraer's audio conference. Thank you very much for your participation, and have a wonderful day.

今天的問答部分和巴西航空工業公司的音頻會議到此結束。非常感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。