Embraer SA (ERJ) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the audio conference from Embraer's financial results for the second quarter of 2023. Thank you for standing by.

女士們、先生們，早上好，歡迎參加巴西航空工業公司 2023 年第二季度財務業績音頻會議。感謝大家的支持。

The numbers of this presentation contain non-GAAP financial information to facilitate investors to reconcile Eve's financial information and GAAP standards to Embraer IFRS. We remind you that Eve results were discussed in Eve's teleconference. It's important to mention that all numbers are presented in U.S. dollars as it is our functional currency. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded and webcasted at ri.embraer.com.br.

本演示文稿的編號包含非 GAAP 財務信息，以方便投資者將 Eve 的財務信息和 GAAP 標準與巴西航空工業公司 IFRS 進行協調。我們提醒您，Eve 的結果已在 Eve 的電話會議中進行了討論。值得一提的是，所有數字均以美元表示，因為美元是我們的功能貨幣。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次會議正在 ri.embraer.com.br 上進行錄製和網絡直播。

This conference call includes forward-looking statements or statements about events or circumstances which have not occurred. Embraer has based these forward-looking statements largely on its current expectations and projections about future events and financial trends affecting the business and its future financial performance. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions including, among other things, general economic, political and business conditions in Brazil and in other markets where the company's -- is present. The words believes, may, will, estimates, continues, anticipates, intends, expects and similar words are intended to identify forward-looking statements. Embraer undertakes no obligation to update publicly or revise any forward-looking statements because of new information, future events or other factors. In light of these risks and uncertainties, the forward-looking events and circumstances discussed on this conference call might not occur. The company's actual results could differ substantially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements.

本次電話會議包括前瞻性陳述或有關尚未發生的事件或情況的陳述。巴西航空工業公司的這些前瞻性陳述主要基於其當前對影響業務及其未來財務業績的未來事件和財務趨勢的預期和預測。這些前瞻性陳述受到風險、不確定性和假設的影響，其中包括巴西和該公司所在的其他市場的總體經濟、政治和商業狀況。 “相信”、“可能”、“將”、“估計”、“繼續”、“預期”、“打算”、“預期”等詞語以及類似詞語旨在識別前瞻性陳述。巴西航空工業公司不承擔因新信息、未來事件或其他因素而公開更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述的義務。鑑於這些風險和不確定性，本次電話會議中討論的前瞻性事件和情況可能不會發生。該公司的實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的預期存在很大差異。

Participants on today's conference calls are Francisco Gomes Neto, President and CEO; Antonio Carlos Garcia, Chief Financial Officer; and Leonardo Shinohara, Director of Investor Relations. I would like now to turn the conference over to Francisco, who will proceed with the first remarks. Please go ahead, Francisco.

今天電話會議的參與者包括總裁兼首席執行官 Francisco Gomes Neto；安東尼奧·卡洛斯·加西亞，首席財務官；以及投資者關係總監 Leonardo Shinohara。現在我想把會議交給弗朗西斯科，他將首先發言。請繼續，弗朗西斯科。

Good morning, and thank you all for joining our second quarter 2023 results call today.

早上好，感謝大家今天參加我們的 2023 年第二季度業績電話會議。

Aircraft deliveries reached 47 jets in the quarter, a strong increase of 47% compared to the second quarter last year. Revenue grew significantly, 57% in Commercial and 42% in Executive. Even with the higher deliveries, backlog remains stable at $17.3 billion, with strong sales performance in Executive Aviation. We have been able to reduce and extend the duration of our debts. Our operational and financial guidance for the year remain unchanged.

本季度飛機交付量達到 47 架，與去年第二季度相比強勁增長 47%。收入大幅增長，商業收入增長 57%，行政收入增長 42%。即使交付量增加，積壓訂單仍穩定在 173 億美元，公務航空銷售表現強勁。我們已經能夠減少和延長債務期限。我們今年的運營和財務指導保持不變。

On the next slides, highlights of our business units. In Commercial Aviation, we reported a strong revenue growth of 57%, as mentioned before, and an EBIT increase of 70% compared to the same quarter last year. Adjusted EBIT margin increased from 4.9% to 5.3% on a year-on-year basis. We announced recently new operators in Asia, Scoot from Singapore, SKS from Malaysia and Royal Jordanian in the Middle East. In Europe, the new order from Binter, totaling now 16 E2 jets. In the U.S. market, American Airlines announced a few order of 7 new E175-E1 jets. This is an important highlight as it shows that pilot shortage situation is improving in the U.S., with new orders for E175-E1s, an important segment for Embraer. We also have additional firm sales of $700 million from undisclosed customers in the beginning of the third quarter.

在下一張幻燈片中，我們重點介紹了我們的業務部門。如前所述，在商業航空領域，我們報告收入強勁增長 57%，與去年同期相比，息稅前利潤增長 70%。調整後息稅前利潤率同比從 4.9% 增至 5.3%。我們最近宣布了亞洲的新運營商：新加坡的酷航、馬來西亞的 SKS 和中東的皇家約旦航空。在歐洲，Binter 的新訂單目前總計 16 架 E2 噴氣式飛機。在美國市場，美國航空宣布了7架新E175-E1噴氣式飛機的訂單。這是一個重要的亮點，因為它表明美國飛行員短缺的情況正在改善，E175-E1飛機是巴西航空工業公司的一個重要領域，獲得了新訂單。第三季度初，我們還從未公開的客戶處獲得了 7 億美元的額外固定銷售額。

Executive Aviation continues with a strong book-to-bill of 2:1. Adjusted EBIT margin at 8.8% compared to 9.5% in the same period last year. We announced this quarter a very relevant deal with NetJets of up to 250 Praetor 500 jet options, along with a comprehensive services and support agreement valued at $5 billion. Our portfolio is very well positioned, with a backlog growing quarter-over-quarter with a resilient price discipline.

Executive Aviation 繼續保持 2:1 的強勁預訂比。調整後息稅前利潤率為 8.8%，去年同期為 9.5%。本季度我們宣布了與 NetJets 達成的一項非常相關的交易，涉及多達 250 架 Praetor 500 噴氣式飛機選項，以及價值 50 億美元的全面服務和支持協議。我們的投資組合定位非常有利，積壓訂單逐季增長，價格紀律具有彈性。

On Defense, the delay of new contracts and revenue recognition are impacting margins. Adjusted EBIT margin dropped from 16.9% to minus 4.1%. We expect it to recover in the coming quarters. We have several sales campaigns gaining momentum, and we hope to make announcements in the second half of the year.

在國防方面，新合同和收入確認的延遲正在影響利潤率。調整後息稅前利潤率從 16.9% 下降至負 4.1%。我們預計它將在未來幾個季度恢復。我們有幾項銷售活動正在取得進展，我們希望在今年下半年發佈公告。

On Services & Support, our year-to-date revenue has increased by 13% to $666 million. Our EBIT margin increased from 12.5% to 15.7% compared to the same quarter last year. We signed a letter of agreement with the Chinese Lanzhou Aviation Group for the conversion of 20 jets to freighters. This is an important movement of Embraer returning to the Chinese market.

在服務和支持方面，我們年初至今的收入增長了 13%，達到 6.66 億美元。與去年同期相比，我們的息稅前利潤率從 12.5% 增至 15.7%。我們與中國蘭州航空集團簽署了將 20 架噴氣式飛機改裝為貨機的協議書。這是巴航工業重返中國市場的重要舉措。

On the next slide, some updates about Eve's numbers and my response. We have announced the first production facility in Taubate and also a joint venture with the Japanese in Nidec, world's leading electric motor manufacturer, to develop electric propulsion systems for the aerospace sector. This backlog is now totaling 2,850 letter of intents valued at $8.6 billion, the highest in the industry. The company has 28 eVTOL customers in 14 different countries.

在下一張幻燈片上，有一些關於夏娃的數字和我的回應的更新。我們宣佈在陶巴特建立第一家生產工廠，並與世界領先的電機製造商日本電產 (Nidec) 建立合資企業，為航空航天領域開發電力推進系統。目前積壓的意向書總計 2,850 份，價值 86 億美元，為業內最高。該公司在 14 個不同國家擁有 28 個 eVTOL 客戶。

Our Vice President of Services & Support, Johann Bordais, was named as the new CEO of Eve to lead the next phase of the company.

我們的服務與支持副總裁 Johann Bordais 被任命為 Eve 的新首席執行官，領導公司下一階段的工作。

I will now hand it over to Antonio to give further details on the financial results, and we will be back with closing remarks.

我現在將把它交給安東尼奧，以提供有關財務業績的更多細節，我們將發表結束語。

Thank you, Francisco, and good morning, everyone.

謝謝弗朗西斯科，大家早上好。

We had another solid quarter, with nearly all metrics moving higher when compared to the first quarter of this year and the second quarter of last year. On Slide 8, now on to deliveries. Embraer delivered 47 debts in the second quarter, 17 in Commercial and 30 in Executive. This is up 47% compared to the second quarter of last year and more than 3x the delivered from the first quarter of this year.

我們又度過了一個穩健的季度，與今年第一季度和去年第二季度相比，幾乎所有指標都有所上升。在幻燈片 8 上，現在開始交付。巴西航空工業公司第二季度交付了 47 筆債務，其中 17 筆是商業債務，30 筆是執行債務。與去年第二季度相比增長了 47%，是今年第一季度交付量的 3 倍多。

Hence, we are very pleased to announce in our Commercial segment, deliveries of E2s continue to grow. We had 7 E2 deliveries in the quarter, up 40% compared to the first quarter and up more than 100% compared to the second quarter of last year. E2 demand continues to grow worldwide. Deliveries in Executive continues to increase as well with 30 delivers in Q2. It was the highest second quarter in the last 7 years. As a result, we are confirming the delivery outlook in our Commercial and Executive business.

因此，我們非常高興地宣布，在我們的商業領域，E2 的交付量持續增長。本季度我們有 7 台 E2 交付，比第一季度增長 40%，比去年第二季度增長超過 100%。全球 E2 需求持續增長。 Executive 的交付量繼續增加，第二季度交付量為 30 架。這是過去7年來最高的第二季度。因此，我們正在確認商業和行政業務的交付前景。

Slide 9, our third order backlog ended the quarter at $17.3 billion, consistent with the last 3 quarters. In Executive, strong demand continues for Embraer [Phenoms] and Praetors aircraft, as the year-to-date book-to-bill ended the second quarter at 2:1. This stability in our backlog is accretive to the guidance growth and profitability, giving us a steady and reliable stream of cash flow that strengthens our balance sheet.

幻燈片 9 是我們的第三個積壓訂單，本季度結束時為 173 億美元，與過去三個季度一致。在執行業務方面，對巴西航空工業公司 [Phenoms] 和 Praetors 飛機的強勁需求持續存在，第二季度截至目前的訂單出貨比為 2:1。我們積壓訂單的穩定性有助於提高指導增長和盈利能力，為我們提供穩定可靠的現金流，從而增強我們的資產負債表。

Moving to revenue. We ended the second quarter with approximately $1.3 billion of net revenue, $273 million or 27% above the same period last year. Year-to-date, revenues are above $2 billion with all 4 business units posting higher first half revenue in 2023 compared to the 2022, with over 60% of the revenue to be realized in the second half of this year as the entire company commits to deliver more aircraft and services to our customers.

轉向收入。第二季度末，我們的淨收入約為 13 億美元，比去年同期增長 27%，即 2.73 億美元。年初至今，收入超過 20 億美元，所有 4 個業務部門 2023 年上半年收入均高於 2022 年，隨著整個公司的承諾，超過 60% 的收入將在今年下半年實現為我們的客戶提供更多飛機和服務。

Slide 10. Second quarter adjusted EBIT was $100 million and adjusted EBITDA was $149 million, both better than the second quarter of 2022. Adjusted EBIT and EBITDA margins were a few basis points lower than the second quarter of last year due to the nonrecurrence of several onetime benefits we had in early 2022. We are reaffirming our adjusted EBITDA and EBITDA margin guidance for this year.

幻燈片10。第二季度調整後EBIT 為1 億美元，調整後EBITDA 為1.49 億美元，均好於2022 年第二季度。調整後EBIT 和EBITDA 利潤率比去年第二季度低幾個基點，原因是多個基點未重複出現我們在 2022 年初獲得了一次性收益。我們重申今年調整後的 EBITDA 和 EBITDA 利潤率指引。

In Slide 11, free cash flow excluding Eve was minus $11 million in the second quarter, basically breakeven. As a reminder, last year, we had a cash inflow from a divestment in Europe, which benefit our free cash flow in the second quarter of 2022. This year, we already forecasted working capital usage to build up inventory needed to meet our production requirements for the remainder of the year. We will recover this outflow in the second half of the year with higher aircraft deliveries. Our outlook remains unchanged, with free cash flow at $150 million or better.

在幻燈片 11 中，不包括 Eve 的自由現金流在第二季度為負 1100 萬美元，基本上達到盈虧平衡。提醒一下，去年我們從歐洲撤資中獲得了現金流入，這有利於我們 2022 年第二季度的自由現金流。今年，我們已經預測了營運資金的使用情況，以建立滿足我們生產需求所需的庫存今年剩餘時間。隨著飛機交付量的增加，我們將在下半年恢復這一流出。我們的前景保持不變，自由現金流為 1.5 億美元或更高。

Moving to investments. We funded $56 million of research and development and invested $25 million CapEx for an investment total of $80 million in the second quarter, similar to the last quarter. The majority of this went to fund the development of our passenger to freighter conversion initiatives and invest in capacity expansion of our Services & Support business units.

轉向投資。我們資助了 5600 萬美元的研發資金，並投資了 2500 萬美元的資本支出，第二季度的投資總額為 8000 萬美元，與上季度類似。其中大部分用於資助我們的客機改裝計劃的開發，並投資於我們的服務和支持業務部門的產能擴張。

On net results, our adjusted net results were $58 million, $12 million better than the second quarter of last year, $147 million better than the first quarter. It's important to highlight that reported net results were negatively impacted by noncash mark-to-market difference in the amount of $53 million. Our adjusted net margin was 4.5%, equal to the second quarter of last year.

在淨利潤方面，我們調整後的淨利潤為 5800 萬美元，比去年第二季度好 1200 萬美元，比第一季度好 1.47 億美元。需要強調的是，報告的淨利潤受到 5,300 萬美元非現金按市值計價差異的負面影響。我們調整後的淨利潤率為 4.5%，與去年第二季度持平。

Slide 12. As seen on this slide, I'm happy to share with you the $500 million plus cash tender of our corporate months. This cash tender was to reprofile our debt, strengthening our balance sheet and reduce our overall liabilities. As previously (inaudible) announced, we recently placed $750 million 7-year bonds in July 2023 and used the proceeds to increase our duration from 3 to 5 years. The positive impact on this liability management plan can be seen in the chart at the bottom of this slide. Our $2.3 billion liquidity position with Eve strengthened by our reprofile liabilities. And combined with future cash flow, we allowed us to cover our debt maturity obligation well past 2028.

幻燈片 12。正如這張幻燈片所示，我很高興與您分享我們公司月的 5 億美元加現金招標。這次現金招標是為了重新調整我們的債務，加強我們的資產負債表並減少我們的總體負債。正如之前（聽不清）宣布的那樣，我們最近於 2023 年 7 月發行了 7.5 億美元的 7 年期債券，並利用所得款項將我們的期限從 3 年延長至 5 年。對此負債管理計劃的積極影響可以從本幻燈片底部的圖表中看出。通過重新調整負債，我們在 Eve 的 23 億美元流動性頭寸得到了加強。結合未來現金流，我們能夠在 2028 年之後償還債務到期義務。

Our net debt exclude Eve at the end of the second quarter was $1.459 billion, as shown at the top center of the slide. This is up slightly from the first quarter due to the increase of working capital previously mentioned. Our leverage ratio showed to the upper right is at 3x, a decrease from 4.7x in the same period 1 year ago.

如幻燈片頂部中心所示，第二季度末排除 Eve 的淨債務為 14.59 億美元。由於前面提到的營運資金增加，這一數字比第一季度略有上升。右上角顯示的槓桿率為 3 倍，較一年前同期的 4.7 倍有所下降。

It's important to point out the positive results from our business unit is what allowed us to execute our liability management plan. Embraer is now very well positioned to move forward in the years ahead.

需要指出的是，我們的業務部門取得的積極成果使我們能夠執行責任管理計劃。巴西航空工業公司目前已做好充分準備，在未來幾年繼續前進。

With that, I conclude my presentation and hand it back to Francisco for his final remarks. Thanks for your attention.

至此，我結束了我的演講，並將其交還給弗朗西斯科，讓他做最後的發言。感謝您的關注。

Thanks, Antonio.

謝謝，安東尼奧。

The Q2 results showed that we are making consistent progress in our journey to improve the financial performance to deliver sustainable growth in the near future. There are several ongoing sales campaigns, especially in Defense and Commercial Aviation, and we are confident to share announcements in the coming quarters, combined with even better results in line with our guidance for the year. On top of that, the aircraft slots on the production line for deliveries in 2024 and 2025 are practically filled for Commercial Aviation and Executive Jets, which will result in a sustained increase in our revenue and profitability.

第二季度的業績表明，我們在改善財務業績以在不久的將來實現可持續增長的過程中不斷取得進展。目前正在進行多項銷售活動，特別是在國防和商業航空領域，我們有信心在未來幾個季度分享公告，並根據我們今年的指導取得更好的業績。除此之外，2024年和2025年交付的商用航空和公務機生產線上的機位幾乎已滿，這將導致我們的收入和盈利能力持續增長。

Thanks again for your interest and confidence in our company.

再次感謝您對我們公司的關注和信任。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Kristine Liwag from Morgan Stanley.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Kristine Liwag。

Great.

偉大的。

So in terms of your sales campaign, you talked about some of these active orders that could potentially come through this year. From your conversations with your airline customers, what have been the key sticking points that prevent some of these campaigns into converting into firm orders?

因此，就您的銷售活動而言，您談到了今年可能完成的一些活躍訂單。從您與航空公司客戶的對話來看，阻礙其中一些活動轉化為確定訂單的關鍵癥結是什麼？

Kristine, thank you for your question, Francisco speaking.

克里斯汀，謝謝你的提問，弗朗西斯科。

Well, I think it is -- no, this is a good momentum for the E2s now. I mean, to complement the operation in different airlines, to complement the bigger aircraft. So we do believe the E2s are a perfect fit for them in order to offer high frequency of fights with very attractive cost benefits. And as I said in my opening, we are working many different campaigns in different regions for -- especially for the E2s, so we expect to make some announcements in this second half of the year.

嗯，我認為是 - 不，這對 E2 來說是一個良好的勢頭。我的意思是，為了補充不同航空公司的運營，補充更大的飛機。因此，我們確實相信 E2 非常適合他們，可以提供高頻率的戰鬥，並具有非常有吸引力的成本效益。正如我在開場白中所說，我們正在不同地區開展許多不同的活動，特別是針對 E2，因此我們預計將在今年下半年發布一些公告。

But there's nothing against the aircraft on the opposite. I think it's a natural sequence for the airlines now to go to this regional aviation.

但對面的飛機卻毫無抵抗力。我認為航空公司現在轉向支線航空是一個自然的過程。

Our next question comes from Myles Walton from Wolfe Research.

我們的下一個問題來自沃爾夫研究中心的邁爾斯·沃爾頓。

I was hoping you could maybe touch on the defense outlook? You've mentioned it's as a result of contract delays that are causing reduced sales and profitability. I think you had previously talked about $600 million in sales for the year. Is that -- is that still achievable? And then also, the delays that are happening, are they specifically KC-390, Super Tucano? Perhaps something you could add in terms of color?

我希望你能談談防守前景？您提到這是由於合同延誤導致銷售額和盈利能力下降。我想您之前曾談到今年的銷售額為 6 億美元。這仍然可以實現嗎？還有，正在發生的延誤，是特指 KC-390、超級巨嘴鳥嗎？也許你可以在顏色方面添加一些東西？

Myles. Antonio speaking.

邁爾斯。安東尼奧發言。

Myles, the issue in Defense is we have, first, what -- we have a heavy impact in Q2 was a material delay, especially for the KC. Assuming that we were not able to book as revenue on the percentage of completion, [4.1%]. What we are seeing delay right now with the Super Tucano, we have some a red finish in the event to just wait the new orders to ship those aircraft this year. And, I would say, the level of $600 million revenue, we heavily discussed last week and we are confirming it's doable and achievable to introduce 2 effects, the new order that's coming for the Super Tucano, which is a fast track because the aircraft, they are ready, and also the increase of production for KC in the second half of the year.

邁爾斯，國防方面的問題是，首先，我們在第二季度產生的重大影響是材料延遲，特別是對於 KC 而言。假設我們無法按完成百分比 [4.1%] 計入收入。我們現在看到超級巨嘴鳥的延遲，我們有一些紅色的飾面，只是等待今年新訂單運送這些飛機。而且，我想說的是，我們上週深入討論了6 億美元的收入水平，我們正在確認引入2 個效果是可行且可以實現的，即超級巨嘴鳥即將推出的新訂單，這是一個快速通道，因為飛機，他們已經準備好了，下半年KC的產量也增加了。

And the margin, again, the revenue in Q2 was pretty low, and we have adjustments in some basis of the contracts and with minor effect. But assuming that the revenue was too low, we have this impact. But I would say, we -- in our expectation, we confirmed the revenue above $600 million and then fighting for EBIT margin, higher single digit for this fiscal year. And moving ahead, we are quite confident that Defense is going to add much more value in this company.

同樣，第二季度的利潤率相當低，我們對合同的某些基礎進行了調整，影響很小。但假設收入太低，我們就會產生這種影響。但我想說，我們——按照我們的預期，我們確認收入超過 6 億美元，然後爭取息稅前利潤率，本財年更高的個位數。展望未來，我們非常有信心國防將為這家公司增加更多價值。

Okay.

好的。

And just a clarification or in addition to Kristine's question, Francisco, do you expect book-to-bill to be above 1 or well above 1 for '23 or below 1?

只是澄清一下，或者除了克里斯汀的問題之外，弗朗西斯科，您預計 23 年的訂單出貨比會高於 1 或遠高於 1 或低於 1？

Well, we expect at least 1:1, but with the potential to be higher than that.

嗯，我們預計至少是 1:1，但有可能更高。

Our next question comes from Ron Epstein from Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的羅恩·愛潑斯坦。

Can you hear me okay?

你能聽到我說話嗎？

Yes, we can, Ron. Go ahead.

是的，我們可以，羅恩。前進。

Maybe one question and a super quick follow-up.

也許一個問題和一個超快速的跟進。

What do you expect the normalized volume of E2s to be when we're kind of back to a normal state? Because it seems like we're still in this tail of recovery from COVID, and it was very disruptive for the mainline airlines and kind of like hyper disruptive for the regionals. But kind of once everything sorts itself out and we're back to sort of a normal cadence, what do you expect annual deliveries to be? Is it 100 airplanes a year, 120, 140? I mean, kind of what's something we can think about as sort of a reasonable normal target?

當我們恢復到正常狀態時，您預計 E2 的標準化數量會是多少？因為我們似乎仍處於新冠疫情復甦的尾聲，這對乾線航空公司來說是非常具有破壞性的，對支線航空公司來說也是一種超級破壞性的。但是，一旦一切都解決了，我們又回到了正常節奏，您預計每年的交付量是多少？每年是 100 架飛機、120 架還是 140 架？我的意思是，我們可以將什麼視為合理的正常目標？

Well, Ron, thanks for the question.

嗯，羅恩，謝謝你的提問。

I mean, 2023 is expected to be the year with the highest number of E2 deliveries since the program was launched. We believe the E2 family is on the rise the market, and this is going to be in the following years as well. So we expect to be with between 90 and 100 total aircraft deliveries by 2025, and most of them will be E2s. So again, we see the E2 family growing faster, much faster than E2 in the following years. And we're expecting '25, '26 to be combining E2s in 1, I mean, over 100 aircrafts a year as we had pre-pandemic levels.

我的意思是，預計 2023 年將是該計劃啟動以來 E2 交付數量最多的一年。我們相信 E2 系列在市場上正在崛起，並且在接下來的幾年裡也會如此。因此，我們預計到 2025 年，飛機交付總量將在 90 至 100 架之間，其中大部分是 E2。因此，我們再次看到 E2 系列的增長速度更快，在接下來的幾年裡比 E2 快得多。我們預計 25 年、26 年將把 E2 合併為 1，我的意思是，按照大流行前的水平，每年將有超過 100 架飛機。

Got it.

知道了。

And then just a quick follow-up on the Super Tucanos. I'm surprised that you're having some trouble there, be it that the airplane has been in fabrication for a very long time. I mean, if you can describe maybe a little more what's going on?

然後是超級巨嘴鳥的快速跟進。我很驚訝你在那裡遇到了一些麻煩，因為這架飛機已經製造了很長時間了。我的意思是，如果你能多描述一下發生了什麼事嗎？

Well, we produce Super Tucanos in Brazil and in Jacksonville as well, so we have opportunities. We are working on sales campaigns for both sides. So in Brazil, we expect to announce this year important orders, as Antonio just mentioned, to deliver the white tails we have in production. In the Jacksonville plants, we are also working with our partner there, Sierra Nevada, to sell aircraft to some other countries using the FMS support. So again, we expect to announce a new word for Super Tucano as well as the C-390 in the second half of the year.

嗯，我們在巴西和傑克遜維爾生產超級巨嘴鳥，所以我們有機會。我們正在為雙方開展銷售活動。因此，正如安東尼奧剛才提到的，在巴西，我們預計今年將宣布重要訂單，以交付我們正在生產的白尾魚。在傑克遜維爾工廠，我們還與那裡的合作夥伴 Sierra Nevada 合作，利用 FMS 支持向其他一些國家銷售飛機。因此，我們預計將在今年下半年宣布 Super Tucano 和 C-390 的新詞。

Our next question comes from Marcelo Motta from JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的馬塞洛·莫塔。

A question regarding this new order that you guys mentioned, about $700 million that will be add to the backlog of Commercial in the third quarter. Could you provide any additional detail in addition to what is on the release? Like the number of aircraft or the family or maybe, let's say, the continent that this order is coming from?

關於你們提到的這個新訂單的問題，大約 7 億美元將添加到第三季度的商業積壓訂單中。除了新聞稿中的內容之外，您能否提供任何其他詳細信息？比如飛機的數量、家庭的數量，或者這個訂單來自哪個大陸？

Marcelo. But sorry, this order is still confidential, and we promise to you to disclose as soon as we have an agreement with the customers.

馬塞洛.但抱歉，該訂單仍然是保密的，我們向您保證，一旦與客戶達成協議，就會立即披露。

Our next question comes from [Andre Fahed] from Bradesco BBI.

我們的下一個問題來自 Bradesco BBI 的 [Andre Fahed]。

So my question is regarding Eve. So the FAA recently published the May 28 plan, which foresees eVTOLs starting operations only in 2025 but mostly in 2028. And some eVTOL companies had plans to start operations in 2024. My question is, Eve was already a leader in the number of orders, or at least close to it. But given this projection by the FAA closer to 2 weeks launch date, do you see a greater interest now from the part of the customers for Eve solution compared to competitors?

所以我的問題是關於夏娃的。因此，FAA 最近發布了5 月28 日的計劃，預計eVTOL 將在2025 年開始運營，但大部分是在2028 年。而一些eVTOL 公司計劃在2024 年開始運營。我的問題是，Eve 在訂單數量上已經處於領先地位，或者至少接近它。但鑑於 FAA 的預測距離發布日期更近 2 週，與競爭對手相比，您是否認為部分客戶現在對 Eve 解決方案更感興趣？

Yes, absolutely, we do more interest in that new business model. Let's put it like that. We are working very hard. We have more than 600 people working the development of the Eve. And we are lucky to have a respectful authority in Brazil as ANAC, and we are in contact with them. We are working with them in order to certify both the aircraft and the air traffic management in Brazil. And with the work progressing well with ANAC. We will have more chance, you know, to do the same with FAA and EASA as well.

是的，當然，我們對這種新的商業模式更感興趣。讓我們這樣說吧。我們正在努力工作。我們有超過 600 名員工致力於 Eve 的開發。我們很幸運能夠在巴西擁有令人尊敬的權威機構 ANAC，並且我們與他們保持著聯繫。我們正在與他們合作，以對巴西的飛機和空中交通管理進行認證。與 ANAC 的合作進展順利。你知道，我們將有更多機會與美國聯邦航空局和歐洲航空安全局一起做同樣的事情。

So again, we are very excited about that, and EVE is progressing well to certify and entering service by 2026.

因此，我們對此感到非常興奮，EVE 進展順利，將於 2026 年獲得認證並投入使用。

Our next question comes from Jay Singh from Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Jay Singh。

Can you provide us with any color regarding any product developments?

您能為我們提供有關任何產品開發的任何顏色嗎？

Could you please repeat?

您能再說一遍嗎？

Yes. Can you provide us with any color regarding product developments at the moment?

是的。您能為我們提供目前有關產品開發的任何信息嗎？

You mean new product development?

你是說新產品開發嗎？

Correct.

正確的。

Yes. Well, we are working in different fronts in the different business units. I mean, evaluating the possibilities for the future. But at this moment, we have a very competitive and modern portfolio of products. In all business units, we have the Phenoms and Praetors in the Executive, we have the E2 family in Commercial and the C-390 in Defense. So again, our focus at this moment is really to sell the existing portfolio of products, and of course, we continue working in new generation in the future as we are doing with the eVTOL, with the Eve and other fronts as well. But at this point of time, our main focus is to sell the current portfolio and to enter in service with the EVE by 2026.

是的。嗯，我們在不同的業務部門的不同方面開展工作。我的意思是，評估未來的可能性。但目前，我們擁有非常有競爭力的現代化產品組合。在所有業務部門中，執行部門有 Phenoms 和 Praetors，商業部門有 E2 系列，國防部門有 C-390。再說一遍，我們目前的重點實際上是銷售現有的產品組合，當然，我們未來將繼續致力於新一代產品，就像我們在 eVTOL、Eve 和其他方面所做的那樣。但目前，我們的主要重點是出售當前的產品組合，並在 2026 年之前與 EVE 一起投入使用。

Our next question comes from Ron Epstein from Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的羅恩·愛潑斯坦。

Thanks for the follow-up.

感謝您的跟進。

We didn't talk much about China. If you could, could you mention how is the opportunity there? What's going on? Because to be honest, I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard much out of China yet in terms of demand for E2s.

我們沒有太多談論中國。如果可以的話，您能談談那裡的機會嗎？這是怎麼回事？因為說實話，我有點驚訝的是，我們還沒有從中國聽到太多關於 E2 需求的消息。

Ron. Well, you know that we have recently certified the E190-E2 in China, and the certification of the E195 is underway. We do believe our jets are the best alternative to complement the local products. The ARJ21, I mean, up to 100 seats from COMAC and the same C-119 from COMAC about 156 seats. So again, our E2s, they go exactly in the middle and they would help a lot to improve the efficiency of the Chinese air traffic.

羅恩.嗯，你知道我們最近在中國認證了E190-E2，E195的認證正在進行中。我們確實相信我們的飛機是補充當地產品的最佳選擇。我的意思是，中國商飛的 ARJ21 最多有 100 個座位，而中國商飛的 C-119 則有大約 156 個座位。再說一次，我們的 E2 飛機正好在中間，它們將有助於提高中國空中交通的效率。

We announced it in the -- during the Paris show this agreement, this letter of agreement to convert, I mean, E1s from passenger to freighter in China, 20 aircraft. So this movement is a highlight that Embraer is returning to China. And you know that the bilateral agreement between our President and the Chinese President, I mean, includes a collaboration between Embraer and Chinese airlines. So again, we are working in the negotiation to sell E2 in China, and we do believe this scenario in China will be an opportunity for Embraer in the next future to introduce our E2s in that market.

我們在巴黎展會期間宣布了這份協議，這份協議書將在中國將 20 架 E1 飛機從客運飛機轉換為貨機。所以這次動作是巴航工業重返中國的一大亮點。你知道，我的意思是，我們的總統和中國國家主席之間的雙邊協議包括巴西航空工業公司和中國航空公司之間的合作。因此，我們正在就在中國銷售 E2 進行談判，我們相信中國的這種情況將成為巴西航空工業公司未來在該市場推出我們的 E2 的機會。

Our next question comes from Cai from Cowen.

我們的下一個問題來自 Cowen 的 Cai。

So Commercial, a couple of questions. The $700 million that you'll add in the third quarter, is that 1 order or several? Secondly, if you get to $90 million to $100 million in 2025, what should we expect the mix to be between E2s and E1s? And thirdly, what is the pricing environment like now for E2s given you have a much differ competition there than you do in E1s?

那麼商業，有幾個問題。您將在第三季度添加的 7 億美元是 1 個訂單還是多個訂單？其次，如果到 2025 年達到 9000 萬到 1 億美元，我們應該期望 E2 和 E1 之間的組合是什麼？第三，鑑於 E2 的競爭與 E1 的競爭有很大不同，現在 E2 的定價環境如何？

Okay. Well, I mean, the -- by 2025 -- 2020 -- as I said before, 2023, we have already a majority of the deliveries with E2s. This is going to remain in the following years. So by 2025, we believe that the E2s will be responsible for 65% of the total deliveries in the year. As the E1, we believe the E1 still have an important market especially in the U.S. And with the resolution of this pilot shortage issue, we will have more and more opportunities for E1s in the next 10 years at least.

好的。嗯，我的意思是，到 2025 年、2020 年，正如我之前所說，2023 年，我們已經完成了大部分 E2 交付。這種情況將在接下來的幾年中持續存在。因此，到 2025 年，我們相信 E2 將佔當年總交付量的 65%。至於E1，我們相信E1仍然有一個重要的市場，尤其是在美國。隨著飛行員短缺問題的解決，至少在未來10年我們將有越來越多的E1機會。

Regarding the price, I mean, it's a tough competition. You know that. But we are working on also to optimize and reduce the costs of the E2s, which -- and the ramp up is helping us in that direction as well. So again, we believe that we can make mid-single-digit margin in the Commercial Aviation with the projection we have with the E1s-- the mix we have for E1 and E2s for the next years.

關於價格，我的意思是，這是一場激烈的競爭。你懂的。但我們也在努力優化和降低 E2 的成本，這以及產量的增加也正在幫助我們朝這個方向發展。因此，我們再次相信，根據我們對 E1 的預測（未來幾年我們對 E1 和 E2 的組合），我們可以在商用航空領域實現中個位數的利潤率。

Is there another question, Cai, that I missed it here?

蔡，還有我在這裡漏掉的問題嗎？

The third 1 was the $700 million addition to backlog in the third quarter. Is that 1 order or several orders? And is it basically signed and already there? Or is it about to be signed?

第三個 1 是第三季度積壓訂單增加 7 億美元。是 1 個訂單還是多個訂單？它基本上已經簽署並且已經存在了嗎？還是即將簽約？

Well, it's signed. What I can tell you, this is more than one.

嗯，已經簽了。我可以告訴你的是，這不僅僅是一個。

Our next question comes from Myles Walton from Wolfe Research.

我們的下一個問題來自沃爾夫研究中心的邁爾斯·沃爾頓。

I was hoping to touch back on Executive Aviation and maybe the NetJets order, when -- as NetJets has been taking the latitude from Cessna for the better part of the last 6 or 7 years. They've been taking about 20 planes a year on average. Is that roughly the cadence that you think about out in '25 when they start to accept deliveries? And then also, in the backlog or book-to-bill in Executive of 2:1 this quarter, what was the -- what -- excluding NetJets, how is the rest of the order book looking in terms of cancellations and orders?

我本想回顧一下 Executive Aviation，或許還有 NetJets 的訂單，因為 NetJets 在過去 6 或 7 年的大部分時間裡一直從 Cessna 那裡獲得了自由度。他們平均每年乘坐大約 20 架飛機。這大概是你在 25 年開始接受交貨時所考慮的節奏嗎？此外，在本季度 2:1 的 Executive 積壓訂單或訂單到賬單中，除了 NetJets 之外，其餘訂單的取消和訂單情況如何？

So actually, NetJets is not included yet in our backlog. I mean the NetJets will -- it's options. And this will start to -- we started -- the delivery, we started in 2025 on. And in that year, on that, we will see according to the demands of NetJet, we'll bring the demands to the backlog. But our history with NetJets has been very positive with the Phenoms, so we believe they will take all the 250 aircraft or even more in the future years.

所以實際上，NetJets 尚未包含在我們的待辦事項中。我的意思是 NetJets 會——這是選擇。這將開始——我們開始——交付，我們從 2025 年開始。在那一年，我們將根據 NetJet 的需求，將需求納入積壓工作。但我們與 NetJets 的 Phenoms 合作歷史非常積極，因此我們相信他們將在未來幾年內接收全部 250 架飛機甚至更多飛機。

Regarding the backlog, I mean, we have a very comfortable situation today year-to-date, I mean, with the book-to-bill ratio of 2:1. And in the long term, we expect the market to normalize, I mean, going back to pre-pandemic levels. This means a book-to-bill closer to 1:1. I think we believe this is the trend. But remember that we are already with delivery volume, delivery granted much higher, and we will grow in the following year. So even with the backlog approaching 1:1, we'll keep an important volume for the -- in terms of in the Executive Aviation.

關於積壓，我的意思是，今年迄今為止我們的情況非常舒適，我的意思是，訂單出貨比為 2:1。從長遠來看，我們預計市場將正常化，回到大流行前的水平。這意味著訂單與賬單的比例接近 1:1。我認為我們相信這是趨勢。但請記住，我們已經有了交付量，交付量更高，我們將在明年增長。因此，即使積壓訂單接近 1:1，我們仍將在公務航空方面保留重要的數量。

Similar to Commercial, where you had a target for '25, '26, do you have a similar 1 for Executive to share in terms of deliveries?

與商業類似，您有“25”、“26”的目標，在交付方面您是否有類似的 1 供執行人員分享？

Well, we are growing this year about 20% in Executive Aviation, and the projection for the next years is to continue to grow 2 digits every year in the deliveries as well.

今年，我們的公務航空業務增長了約 20%，預計未來幾年的交付量將繼續以每年 2 位數的速度增長。

Our next question comes from Kristine Liwag from Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的克里斯汀·利瓦格。

And just following up on the business -- the Executive jets questions. With the orders that you're getting, can you provide more color regarding the pricing environment? And then also a follow-up to that follow-up is that we're hearing that the MRO facilities for Executive jets are pretty much full until second quarter of next year, and there's a shortage of spare engines and customers are unable to fly their assets right now. Is that spurring more activity for Executive jets? And could we see Executive jets book-to-bill be significantly greater than one this year?

接下來就是跟進業務——公務機的問題。根據您收到的訂單，您能否提供有關定價環境的更多信息？接下來的後續行動是，我們聽說公務機的 MRO 設施在明年第二季度之前幾乎已滿，並且備用發動機短缺，客戶無法駕駛他們的飛機現在的資產。這是否會刺激公務機的更多活動？今年我們是否會看到公務機的預訂量顯著高於一架？

You help me if I can't cover all the -- all your questions here.

如果我不能在這裡回答您所有的問題，請幫助我。

For the book-to-bill, as I said, so far it's 2:1, which is excellent. We have the highest backlog at Embraer ever with over $4 billion, which is excellent. As I said before, we believe this book-to-bill, I mean, going to the end of the year, maybe the trend may be to approach 1:1, which -- again, which the backlog we have in-house means that we will continue to grow in important volumes in the follow years in the Executive jets.

正如我所說，到目前為止，訂單出貨比是 2:1，非常好。我們的積壓訂單是巴航工業有史以來最高的，超過 40 億美元，這非常好。正如我之前所說，我們相信這種訂單比，我的意思是，到今年年底，也許趨勢可能會接近 1:1，這也是我們內部積壓的意思我們將在接下來的幾年中繼續大幅增加公務機的銷量。

I mean the margins, you talked -- you asked about the price. I think our team is doing a great job keeping the price discipline in the new sales. And we can see this by looking at the margins. We now have a good mix between fleet and retail. You see the margin of Commercial aviation, I mean, going up.

我指的是利潤，你談到了——你問了價格。我認為我們的團隊在新銷售中保持價格紀律方面做得很好。我們可以通過查看邊距來看到這一點。我們現在在車隊和零售之間實現了良好的結合。我的意思是，你會看到商業航空的利潤率正在上升。

So what is your other question?

那麼你的另一個問題是什麼？

No, like the MRO facility being available and not having any spare engines? Could you get even more orders in the 2:1? And I recognize, Antonio, that's pretty greedy because it is already a spectacular year, but I was wondering if that shortage is going to create even more demand and even better pricing than what we're already seeing.

不，比如 MRO 設施可用但沒有任何備用發動機？ 2:1 還能拿到更多訂單嗎？我認識到，安東尼奧，這是相當貪婪的，因為這已經是輝煌的一年，但我想知道這種短缺是否會創造比我們已經看到的更多的需求和更好的定價。

Yes. We are having difficulties with engines for Executive jets as well. But I mean, our supplier is improving. We believe that we will do much better from now on. I mean, that -- since they are resolving some issues with their sub-suppliers,

是的。我們在公務機發動機方面也遇到了困難。但我的意思是，我們的供應商正在進步。我們相信，從現在開始，我們會做得更好。我的意思是，由於他們正在解決與次級供應商的一些問題，

MRO, I mean, it's another opportunity for us to grow our business. We duplicate this Sorocaba. We are working also to expand also all the MROs, I mean, the U.S. and in Europe. I mean, it's another good opportunity for us to grow. So -- and we don't see big issues with engines in the future. As I said, we believe by the end of the year, I mean first quarter or second quarter next year, the situation with the engines will be, I mean, totally normalized for Executive jets.

MRO，我的意思是，這是我們發展業務的另一個機會。我們複製這個索羅卡巴。我們還致力於擴大所有 MRO，我的意思是美國和歐洲。我的意思是，這是我們成長的另一個好機會。因此，我們認為未來發動機不會出現大問題。正如我所說，我們相信到今年年底，我的意思是明年第一季度或第二季度，發動機的情況將完全正常化。

Our next question comes from Cai from Cowen.

我們的下一個問題來自 Cowen 的 Cai。

No one's asked for a while, but the arbitration with Boeing, their 10-Q indicates that they expected, I guess, about year-end. When do you expect that arbitration decision? Will it be binding? And are you optimistic this will still be a net plus for Embraer?

有一段時間沒有人提出要求，但與波音公司的仲裁，他們的 10-Q 表明他們預計，我猜，大約是年底。您預計什麼時候會做出仲裁決定？會有約束力嗎？您是否樂觀地認為這仍將成為巴西航空工業公司的淨收益？

Well, the process had some delays because of the complexity. But Cai, we expect to see an end of this process during the first half 2024.

嗯，由於復雜性，這個過程有一些延遲。但是 Cai，我們預計這一過程將在 2024 年上半年結束。

This does conclude today's question-and-answer session, and that does conclude Embraer's audio conference, too. Thank you for your participation, and have a wonderful day.

今天的問答環節到此結束，巴西航空工業公司的音頻會議也到此結束。感謝您的參與，祝您度過美好的一天。