Ciena Corp (CIEN) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Ciena's Fiscal First Quarter 2024 Financial Results Conference Call.

美好的一天，歡迎參加 Ciena 2024 年第一季財務業績電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) Please note, this event is being recorded.

（操作員說明）請注意，正在記錄此事件。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Gregg Lampf, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給投資者關係副總裁 Gregg Lampf。請繼續。

Thank you, Dave. Good morning, and welcome to Ciena's 2024 Fiscal First Quarter Conference Call. On the call today is Gary Smith, President and CEO; and James Moylan, CFO. Scott McFeely, Executive Adviser, is also with us for Q&A.

謝謝你，戴夫。早上好，歡迎參加 Ciena 2024 財年第一季電話會議。今天的電話會議由總裁兼執行長加里史密斯 (Gary Smith) 主持。和財務長詹姆斯·莫伊蘭。執行顧問 Scott McFeely 也與我們一起參加問答。

In addition to this call and the press release, we have posted to the Investors section of our website, an accompanying investor presentation that reflects this discussion as well as certain highlighted items from the quarter. Our comments today speak to our recent performance, our view on current market dynamics and drivers of our business as well as a discussion of our financial outlook. Today's discussion includes certain adjusted or non-GAAP measures of Ciena's results of operations. A reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to our GAAP results is included in today's press release.

除了本次電話會議和新聞稿之外，我們還在網站的投資者部分發布了一份隨附的投資者演示文稿，其中反映了這一討論以及本季度的某些重點項目。我們今天的評論涉及我們最近的業績、我們對當前市場動態和業務驅動因素的看法以及對我們財務前景的討論。今天的討論包括 Ciena 營運績效的某些調整後或非公認會計原則衡量標準。今天的新聞稿中包含了這些非公認會計準則衡量指標與我們公認的會計準則結果的協調表。

Before turning the call over to Gary, I'll remind you that during this call, we'll be making certain forward-looking statements. Such statements, including our quarterly and annual guidance and our long-term financial outlook and discussion of market opportunities and strategy are based on current expectations, forecasts and assumptions regarding the company and its markets, which include risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the statements discussed today.

在將電話轉給加里之前，我要提醒您，在這次電話會議中，我們將做出某些前瞻性陳述。此類聲明，包括我們的季度和年度指導以及我們的長期財務展望以及對市場機會和策略的討論，均基於有關公司及其市場的當前預期、預測和假設，其中包括可能導致實際結果發生變化的風險和不確定性。與今天討論的聲明存在重大差異。

Assumptions relating to our outlook, whether mentioned on this call are included in the investor presentation that we will post shortly after are an important part of such for looking statements, and we encourage you to consider them. Our forward-looking statements should also be viewed in the context of the risk factors detailed in our most recent 10-K and our 10-Q, which will be filed with the SEC today. Ciena assumes no obligation to update the information discussed in this conference call, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.

與我們的前景相關的假設，無論是在本次電話會議中提到的，還是包含在我們不久後發布的投資者介紹中，都是此類前瞻性聲明的重要組成部分，我們鼓勵您考慮它們。我們的前瞻性陳述還應該結合我們最近的 10-K 和 10-Q 中詳細說明的風險因素來看待，這些風險因素將於今天向 SEC 提交。 Ciena 不承擔更新本次電話會議中討論的資訊的義務，無論是由於新資訊、未來事件或其他原因。

As always, we'll allow for as much Q&A as possible today. Though I ask that you limit yourselves to one question and one follow-up. As a reminder, we will be hosting Investor Group Meetings for the sell side at OFC later this month. We look forward to seeing many of you in San Diego.

像往常一樣，今天我們將盡可能多地進行問答。但我要求你們將自己限制在一個問題和一個後續行動。謹此提醒，我們將於本月稍晚在 OFC 舉辦賣方投資者小組會議。我們期待在聖地牙哥見到你們。

With that, I'll turn it over to Gary.

有了這個，我會把它交給加里。

Thanks, Gregg, and good morning, everyone. As you've seen from the press release today, we reported strong fiscal first quarter results, including revenue of $1.04 billion and adjusted gross margin of 45.7%. Our Q1 performance also included very strong profitability metrics, with quarterly adjusted operating margin of 13.2% and adjusted EPS of $0.66.

謝謝格雷格，大家早安。正如您從今天的新聞稿中看到的，我們報告了強勁的第一財季業績，包括 10.4 億美元的收入和 45.7% 的調整後毛利率。我們第一季的業績還包括非常強勁的獲利指標，季度調整後營業利潤率為 13.2%，調整後每股收益為 0.66 美元。

Additionally, we generated $250 million in free cash flow within the quarter. The drivers of bandwidth demand remain strong, and we believe very durable, and network traffic is increasing as a result. And we remain incredibly focused on growing our business and capturing additional market share. Specifically, we are taking advantage of bandwidth growth and cloud adoption trends, to extend our leadership in Optical and to expand our addressable market, particularly in metro routing and broadband access.

此外，本季我們還產生了 2.5 億美元的自由現金流。頻寬需求的驅動因素仍然強勁，而且我們認為非常持久，因此網路流量正在增加。我們仍然非常專注於發展我們的業務並佔領更多的市場份額。具體來說，我們正在利用頻寬成長和雲端採用趨勢，擴大我們在光纖領域的領先地位並擴大我們的潛在市場，特別是在城域路由和寬頻存取方面。

Fundamental to these growth ambitions is the expansion of our relationship with cloud providers as they rapidly grow their global networks. Reflecting these expanded relationships in Q1, non-telco revenue accounted for over 54% of our total revenues. And of that, direct cloud provider revenue was $346 million in the quarter, up 38% year-over-year, and both of our 10% customers in the quarter were, in fact, cloud providers.

這些成長雄心的基礎是隨著雲端供應商快速發展其全球網路而擴大我們與雲端供應商的關係。非電信收入占我們總收入的 54% 以上，反映了第一季這些擴大的關係。其中，本季直接雲端供應商營收為 3.46 億美元，年增 38%，本季我們 10% 的客戶實際上都是雲端供應商。

Orders from cloud providers were also up year-over-year in Q1 and we continue to secure new deals with all of the major players in this segment. In Q1, for example, we had a significant design win for our 400G ZR+ pluggables with a very large cloud provider, which we plan to begin shipping and taking revenue on later this year. We were also recently selected by a major cloud provider as their primary vendor for its future global architecture based on our RLS platform.

第一季來自雲端供應商的訂單也較去年同期成長，我們繼續與該領域的所有主要參與者達成新交易。例如，在第一季度，我們的 400G ZR+ 可插拔產品與一家非常大的雲端供應商取得了重大設計勝利，我們計劃在今年稍後開始出貨並獲得收入。最近，我們也被一家主要雲端供應商選為其基於我們的 RLS 平台的未來全球架構的主要供應商。

So, it is very clear that we've been broadening our engagement with cloud providers, including discussion around how we can leverage our leading innovation, as AI becomes a growing driver of traffic and a great opportunity for us. In fact, with about 50% plus market share in data center interconnect, we are incredibly well positioned to benefit as more data centers are built and when AI traffic flows begin to come out of those data centers.

因此，很明顯，我們一直在擴大與雲端供應商的合作，包括圍繞如何利用我們領先的創新進行討論，因為人工智慧已成為不斷增長的流量驅動力，並為我們帶來了巨大的機會。事實上，我們在資料中心互連領域擁有約 50% 以上的市場份額，隨著更多資料中心的建成以及人工智慧流量開始從這些資料中心流出，我們處於非常有利的位置，能夠從中受益。

We are also developing solutions for inside the data center, a whole new market for us. And this is based on our next-generation pluggables family, as existing technologies are unlikely to satisfy the rapidly increasing requirements for this critical application space. This momentum really exemplifies the strong confidence we have in our position with cloud providers and our belief that we will have a very strong 2024 with them as we continue to expand these important long-term relationships.

我們也正在開發資料中心內部的解決方案，這對我們來說是一個全新的市場。這是基於我們的下一代可插拔產品系列，因為現有技術不太可能滿足這一關鍵應用領域快速成長的需求。這種勢頭確實體現了我們對雲端供應商地位的堅定信心，以及我們相信，隨著我們繼續擴大這些重要的長期關係，我們將在 2024 年與他們一起度過一個非常強勁的時期。

However, at the same time, the normalization of order volumes from our service provider segment is not materializing as we expected. We were very clear in our commentary last quarter that our fiscal 2024 financial performance would be largely determined by the timing and magnitude of order flow, from our Service Provider customers, particularly those in North America.

然而，與此同時，我們的服務提供者部門的訂單量正常化並沒有像我們預期的那樣實現。我們在上個季度的評論中非常明確地指出，我們 2024 財年的財務表現將在很大程度上取決於來自我們的服務提供者客戶（尤其是北美客戶）的訂單流的時間和規模。

More specifically, we expected to see orders from these customers begin to increase significantly in Q2. And as we sit here today, it is taking longer than we and many in the industry anticipated, for these customers to absorb their high levels of inventory. This is in part due to difficulties installing and deploying equipment, including site readiness and access to fiber, which is limiting their placement of new orders and the absorption of existing inventories.

更具體地說，我們預計這些客戶的訂單在第二季開始大幅增加。當我們今天坐在這裡時，這些客戶消化高庫存的時間比我們和許多業內人士預期的要長。部分原因是設備安裝和部署困難，包括現場準備和光纖接入，這限制了他們新訂單的下達和現有庫存的吸收。

In addition, in other parts of the world, we are seeing some caution driven largely by macroeconomic concerns that are contributing to lower-than-expected order volumes from service providers in certain international geographies, almost entirely and predominantly being Europe. Our current view based on our discussions with customers is that we now expect a recovery in order patterns from service providers to occur more gradually over the next few quarters.

此外，在世界其他地區，我們看到一些謹慎態度，主要是由於宏觀經濟擔憂，導致某些國際地區（幾乎全部且主要是歐洲）的服務提供者的訂單量低於預期。根據與客戶的討論，我們目前的觀點是，我們現在預計服務提供者的訂單模式將在未來幾季逐步恢復。

And Jim will speak shortly about how we expect this to impact our business outlook but I want to emphasize that we and our customers view these dynamics as temporary. And to be clear, we are confident in the durability of the underlying demand drivers in the industry and our ability to continue to take share and grow over the mid- to longer term. In fact, there are several key highlights from our Q1 performance that really illustrate the strength of these fundamental demand drivers.

吉姆很快就會談到我們預計這將如何影響我們的業務前景，但我想強調的是，我們和我們的客戶認為這些動態是暫時的。需要明確的是，我們對該行業潛在需求驅動因素的持久性以及我們在中長期內繼續佔據份額和成長的能力充滿信心。事實上，我們第一季的表現有幾個關鍵亮點，真正說明了這些基本需求驅動因素的力量。

In Optical, we continue to take share and remain the undisputed leader across virtually every domain, including metro, DWM, DCI, submarine and long haul. During Q1, we added 11 new customers for WaveLogic 5 Extreme, bringing our total customer count to 270. And to date, we've shipped more than 115,000 WaveLogic 5e modems.

在光通訊領域，我們繼續佔據市場份額，並在幾乎每個領域保持無可爭議的領導者地位，包括城域網路、DWM、DCI、海底和長途。第一季度，我們為 WaveLogic 5 Extreme 增加了 11 個新客戶，使我們的客戶總數達到 270 個。迄今為止，我們已發貨超過 115,000 個 WaveLogic 5e 數據機。

WaveServer had a record quarter as well in Q1 with more than $250 million in revenue, reflecting a 34% growth year-over-year. Quarterly revenue doubled year-over-year for our reconfigurable line system or RLS platform, with 8 new customers in the quarter, bringing the total to nearly 70. And for our WaveLogic 5 Nano, 400ZR and ZR+ pluggables, we gained 19 new customers in the quarter and now have a total of 86 total customers.

WaveServer 第一季的營收也創下了歷史新高，超過 2.5 億美元，年增 34%。我們的可重構線路系統或RLS 平台的季度營收年增率翻了一番，本季新增了8 家客戶，使總數達到近70 家。對於我們的WaveLogic 5 Nano、400ZR 和ZR+ 可插拔產品，我們在2019 年獲得了19 家新客戶。本季目前共有 86 家客戶。

Looking ahead in Optical, we're already taking orders for WaveLogic 6 Extreme, the industry's first and only 1.6 terabit solution, which will become generally available this summer. In fact, we've already announced 2 of these wins, Southern Cross and Vocus. Further, WaveLogic 6 Nano, our next-generation pluggables family, will feature products such as H100 gig ZR, in the latter half of calendar 2024.

展望光學領域的未來，我們已經開始接受 WaveLogic 6 Extreme 的訂單，這是業界第一個也是唯一的 1.6 太比特解決方案，將於今年夏天全面上市。事實上，我們已經宣布了其中兩場勝利：Southern Cross 和 Vocus。此外，我們的下一代可插拔產品系列 WaveLogic 6 Nano 將在 2024 年下半年推出 H100 gig ZR 等產品。

In Routing & Switching, where we've been making both organic and inorganic investments, we continue to execute our strategy to expand our TAM into faster-growing markets. And in Q1, we had double-digit revenue growth year-over-year for the combination of our 3,000 and 5,000 series platforms. Our AT100 continues to gain traction as we scale our metro and coherent routing capabilities. And we now have more than 50 customers around the globe for this platform. We continue to build momentum with this portfolio, including our wave router platform, of which we are building additional form factors to address a wider range of applications over time.

在路由與交換領域，我們一直在進行有機和無機投資，我們將繼續執行我們的策略，將我們的 TAM 擴展到成長更快的市場。在第一季度，我們的 3,000 和 5,000 系列平台組合實現了兩位數的營收年增。隨著我們擴展城域和一致路由功能，我們的 AT100 繼續受到關注。現在我們這個平台在全球擁有超過 50 位客戶。我們繼續透過該產品組合建立勢頭，包括我們的波路由器平台，我們正在建立更多的外形尺寸，以隨著時間的推移滿足更廣泛的應用需求。

Other portfolio highlights for Q1 include, notably another very good quarter for Platform Software and Services, with 22% revenue growth year-over-year and 9% sequentially. We also saw 13% revenue growth year-over-year in our Global Services business, and this is most notable because it was driven by another strong quarter for installation and deployment, which really illustrates our role and visibility in helping our service provider customers work through some of their near-term absorption challenges.

第一季的其他投資組合亮點包括平台軟體和服務又一個非常好的季度，營收年增 22%，季增 9%。我們的全球服務業務收入年增了13%，這是最引人注目的，因為它是由另一個強勁的安裝和部署季度推動的，這真正說明了我們在幫助服務提供者客戶工作方面的作用和知名度克服一些近期的吸收挑戰。

In summary, we delivered a strong performance in our fiscal first quarter. Our technology leadership position has never been better and will continue to improve. Our customer engagements remain focused on helping them meet the growing demand for bandwidth, digitally transform their operations and monetize their networks faster. And more recently, positioning them for the rise of AI and what it means to network infrastructure and operations. We remain very confident in the opportunities ahead and in the execution of our long-term strategy.

總而言之，我們在第一財季取得了強勁的業績。我們的技術領先地位從未如此良好，並將繼續提高。我們的客戶服務仍然專注於幫助他們滿足不斷增長的頻寬需求、實現營運數位轉型並更快地實現網路貨幣化。最近，他們將其定位在人工智慧的興起及其對網路基礎設施和營運的意義。我們對未來的機會和長期策略的執行仍然充滿信心。

With that, I'll turn it over to Jim, who will provide details on the quarter's results, as well as our business outlook, particularly in the context of the current service provider order dynamics, that I referenced earlier. Thank you, Jim.

接下來，我將把它交給吉姆，他將提供有關本季業績的詳細資訊以及我們的業務前景，特別是在我之前提到的當前服務提供者訂單動態的背景下。謝謝你，吉姆。

Thanks, Gary. Good morning, everyone. As Gary stated, we delivered very strong fiscal first quarter financial results. Total revenue in Q1 was $1.04 billion. Adjusted gross margin was 45.7%, reflecting a favorable product mix. Q1 adjusted operating expense was $337 million, a bit lower due to delays in certain internal projects and lower sales incentive compensation. With respect to profitability measures, in Q1, we delivered strong results, including adjusted operating margin of 13.2%, adjusted net income of $97 million and adjusted EPS of $0.66.

謝謝，加里。大家，早安。正如加里所說，我們第一季的財務表現非常強勁。第一季總營收為 10.4 億美元。調整後毛利率為 45.7%，反映出有利的產品組合。第一季調整後營運費用為 3.37 億美元，由於某些內部項目的延遲和銷售激勵薪酬的降低，略有下降。就獲利能力指標而言，第一季我們取得了強勁的業績，包括調整後營業利潤率為 13.2%，調整後淨利潤為 9,700 萬美元，調整後每股收益為 0.66 美元。

In addition, we generated $266 million in cash from operations. Adjusted EBITDA in Q1 was $160 million. Finally, we ended the quarter with approximately $1.5 billion in cash and investments. Inventory levels came down $66 million from Q4 and we repurchased approximately 690,000 shares for $32 million during the quarter. We are continuing to target the repurchase of $250 million total during the year.

此外，我們還透過營運產生了 2.66 億美元的現金。第一季調整後 EBITDA 為 1.6 億美元。最後，本季末我們擁有約 15 億美元的現金和投資。庫存水準較第四季度下降了 6,600 萬美元，本季我們以 3,200 萬美元回購了約 69 萬股股票。我們繼續設定年內回購總額達 2.5 億美元的目標。

As we turn to guidance, I want to reinforce a few points. Most importantly, the fundamental demand drivers of our business, including growth in bandwidth demand remain very strong. Bandwidth demand has grown at 25% to 30% per year for decades and with AI applications imminent, shows no signs of slowing. We continue to grow our business and gain share with cloud providers in connection with their network expansion and data center infrastructure build-outs. And our deep relationships and engagements with service provider customers continue to position us well in opportunities across both Optical and Routing and Switching domains.

當我們轉向指導時，我想強調幾點。最重要的是，我們業務的基本需求驅動因素（包括頻寬需求的成長）仍然非常強勁。幾十年來，頻寬需求每年以 25% 至 30% 的速度成長，隨著人工智慧應用的迫在眉睫，這一需求沒有放緩的跡象。我們繼續發展我們的業務，並在雲端供應商的網路擴展和資料中心基礎設施建設方面獲得份額。我們與服務供應商客戶的深厚關係和合作繼續使我們在光纖、路由和交換領域的機會中佔據有利地位。

However, we remain in a period of uncertainty, which has come about as a result of the whiplash effects on industry supply chains, caused by shortages of key components, elongated lead times, huge orders by customers in response and inventory builds of networking gear by our customers. They are working down this inventory and things are getting better. However, it is taking longer than we and many in the industry anticipated for Tier 1 service providers in North America to work through these high levels of inventory, and this is impacting their placement of new orders.

然而，我們仍然處於一個不確定的時期，這是由於關鍵零件短缺、交貨時間延長、客戶大量訂單以及網絡設備庫存增加對行業供應鏈造成的鞭打效應造成的。我們的顧客。他們正在清理庫存，情況正在好轉。然而，北美一級服務提供者處理這些高庫存水準的時間比我們和許多業內人士預期的要長，這影響了他們的新訂單下達。

Additionally, we are seeing increased caution from certain European service providers related to macro concerns. All of this is largely consistent with what our customers, competitors and suppliers have been reporting in recent weeks and months. We continue to believe that these dynamics are temporary and currently expect to see orders improvement over the next few quarters.

此外，我們看到某些歐洲服務提供者對宏觀問題更加謹慎。所有這些都與我們的客戶、競爭對手和供應商最近幾週和幾個月的報告基本一致。我們仍然認為這些動態是暫時的，目前預計未來幾季的訂單量將有所改善。

Taking all of these factors into consideration, we are adjusting certain elements of our annual guidance for fiscal 2024. We now expect revenue for fiscal 2024 to be in a range of $4.0 billion, to $4.3 billion, down from our previous expectations of 1% to 4% growth over fiscal 2023. With respect to adjusted gross margins in fiscal '24, we continue to expect it to be in the mid-40s range with some variability by quarter.

考慮到所有這些因素，我們正在調整 2024 財年年度指引的某些要素。我們現在預計 2024 財年的收入將在 40 億美元至 43 億美元之間，低於先前 1% 至 4% 的預期。比2023 財年增長4%。關於24 財年調整後的毛利率，我們繼續預計其將在40 多歲的範圍內，每個季度都會有一些變化。

For adjusted operating expense, we intend to continue investing strategically both to advance our leadership position in our key markets and to expand our addressable market in key growth areas. However, taking into account our current revenue outlook for the year, we are now planning for operating expense to average $340 million to $345 million per quarter in fiscal year '24, down from our previous guidance of $355 million per quarter.

對於調整後的營運費用，我們打算繼續進行策略性投資，以提升我們在關鍵市場的領導地位，並擴大我們在關鍵成長領域的潛在市場。然而，考慮到我們目前的今年收入前景，我們現在計劃 24 財年每季平均營運費用為 3.4 億至 3.45 億美元，低於我們之前每季 3.55 億美元的指引。

With respect to Q2, we expect to deliver revenue in a range of $850 million to $930 million, adjusted gross margin in the low 40 percentage range, given expected product mix and lower volumes in the quarter and adjusted operating expense of approximately $340 million to $345 million.

就第二季而言，考慮到本季的預期產品組合和銷售下降以及調整後的營運費用約為3.4 億至345 美元，我們預計第二季的營收將在8.5 億至9.3 億美元之間，調整後的毛利率將在40% 以下的範圍內百萬。

Finally, we are updating our 3-year financial targets. As a reminder, given the severity and duration of the rebalancing of supply and consumption, our fiscal 2023 was a year of outsized revenue growth, over 20% and well above our historical growth rate of 6% to 8%. Our outlook today is that for the same reasons, our fiscal 2024 revenue growth rate will be substantially lower than the historical rate. Given this revised view, using our updated fiscal year revenue outlook of $4 billion to $4.3 billion, as a baseline year, we believe that 6% to 8% CAGR best represents our long-term growth rate. And in a market growing low to single -- low to mid-single digits percentage, Ciena's expected revenue growth rate will ensure continued market share gains.

最後，我們正在更新我們的 3 年財務目標。提醒一下，考慮到供給和消費再平衡的嚴重性和持續時間，我們的 2023 財年是收入大幅增長的一年，增長超過 20%，遠高於我們 6% 至 8% 的歷史增長率。我們今天的展望是，出於同樣的原因，我們 2024 財年的營收成長率將大幅低於歷史成長率。鑑於這項修正後的觀點，使用我們更新的 40 億至 43 億美元的財年收入前景作為基準年，我們認為 6% 至 8% 的複合年增長率最能代表我們的長期增長率。在一個低至個位數百分比成長的市場中，Ciena 的預期營收成長率將確保市佔率持續成長。

In summary, the industry is experiencing some near-term headwinds as our customers recover from the supply chain challenges that they've seen in recent years. Bandwidth demand though continues to grow at, at least the historical 25% to 30% annual rate. Underlying demand drivers of that, which now include AI, ensure that this will continue well into the future. Our leading technology and focus on growing our portfolio to address new markets as well as our deep relationships with both service providers and cloud providers position us extremely well to address the evolving network priorities of our customers. We expect to continue growing our market share and to deliver profitable growth over the long term.

總而言之，隨著我們的客戶從近年來遇到的供應鏈挑戰中恢復過來，該行業正在經歷一些近期的阻力。但頻寬需求仍以至少歷史 25% 至 30% 的年增長率持續成長。其潛在的需求驅動因素（現在包括人工智慧）確保這種情況將在未來持續下去。我們領先的技術、專注於發展我們的產品組合以應對新市場，以及我們與服務供應商和雲端供應商的深厚關係，使我們能夠非常好地解決客戶不斷變化的網路優先事項。我們預計將繼續擴大市場份額並實現長期盈利增長。

Dave, let's turn the call now over to analysts for Q&A.

戴夫，我們現在將電話轉給分析師進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) The first question comes from Samik Chatterjee with JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自摩根大通的 Samik Chatterjee。

Maybe for the first one, if I can just ask for a bit more color on the order patterns you're seeing, both on the telco and the web scale side. I mean, any color on the sequential order trends there? Because from the commentary of the Q2 guide at least, it does appear like telco orders probably were a lot worse than you were expecting. But any more color there, in terms of the magnitude of the sequential order trends between those 2 verticals that you're seeing? And I have a follow-up.

也許對於第一個，如果我可以要求在您看到的訂單模式上多一點顏色，無論是在電信公司還是網路規模方面。我的意思是，順序趨勢有什麼顏色嗎？因為至少從第二季指南的評論來看，電信公司的訂單似乎確實比您預期的要糟糕得多。但是，就您所看到的這兩個垂直方向之間的順序趨勢的大小而言，還有更多的顏色嗎？我有一個後續行動。

Yes. Just Samik, let me try to describe the dynamics here. We've just gone through Q1, which is historically a relatively low order quarter for us. But they came in about where we expected and are slowly improving. But the premise for our guide for this year was our view based on everything we had heard at the time that Tier 1 service providers would be working through their inventory at a faster rate and would begin to normalize their ordering patterns by Q2. That was our premise for our plan and for our guide. What's happening is that it is taking them longer to work through their inventories. There are all sorts of issues, too, with respect to fiber, with respect to site readiness, with respect to labor and all of this is causing them to take longer to work through the inventory that they have accumulated over the last 1.5 years.

是的。 Samik，讓我試著描述這裡的動態。我們剛剛經歷了第一季度，從歷史上看，這對我們來說是訂單相對較低的季度。但它們的表現與我們預期的差不多，並且正在慢慢改善。但我們今年指南的前提是我們基於當時所聽到的一切的觀點，即一級服務提供者將以更快的速度處理他們的庫存，並將在第二季度開始規範他們的訂購模式。這是我們的計劃和指南的前提。實際情況是他們需要更長的時間來處理庫存。在光纖、現場準備、勞動力方面也存在各種各樣的問題，所有這些都導致​​他們需要更長的時間來處理過去 1.5 年累積的庫存。

Let me make it clear though that they are working down the inventory and things are getting better. We do expect higher orders in Q2 but we do not think now that they're going to be at the level that would enable us to reach our Q2 guide and our full year guide. So that's what's happening. In Europe, it's really at the edges but clearly, the macro situation in Europe is not strong, and we're just seeing lower orders and expect to see lower orders from them for the year.

讓我澄清一下，他們正在減少庫存，情況正在好轉。我們確實預計第二季的訂單會增加，但我們現在認為它們不會達到使我們能夠達到第二季指南和全年指南的水平。這就是正在發生的事情。在歐洲，確實處於邊緣，但顯然，歐洲的宏觀情況並不強勁，我們只是看到訂單減少，預計今年的訂單也會減少。

Samik, to your point on the cloud, that sort of contrast with the cloud, which you saw the numbers in Q1, we were up 38% year-over-year. We expect to see that continue to be strong throughout and good order flows throughout the year. Obviously, we've grown tremendously there in 50-odd percent growth last year. We're not going to see that kind of growth but we're going to have a very solid year in the web scale.

Samik，就您關於雲端的觀點而言，與您在第一季看到的數字相比，我們比去年同期成長了 38%。我們預計全年將持續強勁，訂單流良好。顯然，我們去年的成長率達到了 50% 以上。我們不會看到這種成長，但我們將在網路規模上度過非常堅實的一年。

Okay. Got it. And for my follow-up, if I can just clarify, Jim, your comments about the long-term growth guide prior quarter. I think the previous guide was for fiscal '24 to '26 to be 6% to 8%, I didn't exactly -- it seemed like you were sort of reiterating that guide but I didn't exactly capture what you're trying to imply in the updated long-term guide that you provided?

好的。知道了。對於我的後續行動，吉姆，我能否澄清一下您對上一季長期成長指南的評論。我認為之前的指南是 24 至 26 財年的增長率為 6% 至 8%，我沒有完全理解 - 看起來您似乎在重申該指南，但我沒有完全理解您正在嘗試的內容在您提供的更新的長期指南中暗示？

Yes. If you think about what we said at the beginning of the year, we said 6% to 8% over 3 years, and that was starting off with a lower growth rate in '24, which implied perhaps a slightly higher growth rate in the later years. We're now saying that you should -- if you're doing a 3-year forecast for us, you should take fiscal '24 as your base and assume a growth rate of 6% to 8%. Now that sounds like a guide. We're not trying to guide for '25 right now. We could well be better than that. We hope it will be. But we think for modeling purpose, it's as good a guess as any.

是的。如果你想想我們年初所說的，我們說在 3 年內成長 6% 到 8%，而且是從 24 年較低的成長率開始的，這意味著後來的成長率可能會稍高一些年。我們現在說，如果您為我們進行 3 年預測，您應該以 24 財年為基礎，並假設成長率為 6% 至 8%。現在這聽起來像是一個指南。我們現在不打算為 25 年提供指導。我們很可能會做得更好。我們希望如此。但我們認為出於建模目的，這是一個很好的猜測。

The next question comes from Amit Daryanani with Evercore.

下一個問題來自 Evercore 的 Amit Daryanani。

I guess maybe to start with the updated guide at this point sort of implies that you have a very steep ramp in the back half of the year for Q3 and Q4, I think almost implying like mid-teens sequential growth for the back half. Can you just talk about what gives you the confidence? And you can get that kind of growth given the downtick you just offered to the telco customers? And then maybe an extension of this, if the orders from these telco customers don't materialize the way you expect, is the risk more than you are at the low end of the guide? Or how do I think of that dynamic as well?

我想也許從更新的指南開始，這有點意味著今年下半年第三季和第四季的成長非常陡峭，我認為幾乎意味著下半年會出現十幾歲左右的連續成長。能簡單談談是什麼給了您信心嗎？鑑於您剛剛向電信客戶提供的折扣，您可以獲得這種增長嗎？然後也許是這種情況的延伸，如果這些電信客戶的訂單沒有按照您預期的方式實現，那麼風險是否比指南中的低端風險更大？或者我如何看待這種動態？

Yes. Amit, yes, it's clearly a step function into the second half that we actually thought we'd start in Q2. We are seeing the orders as Jim said. This is not a sort of binary event. We are seeing progress in the absorption, inventory going down, and we are seeing a gradual increase in the service provider orders. That sort of gives us confidence. And obviously, we have deep partnerships with these guys, and we're installing some of the equipment as well.

是的。阿米特，是的，這顯然是進入下半年的階梯函數，我們實際上認為我們會在第二季度開始。正如吉姆所說，我們正在看到訂單。這不是一種二元事件。我們看到吸收進展，庫存下降，服務提供者訂單逐漸增加。這給了我們信心。顯然，我們與這些人有著深厚的合作關係，我們也正在安裝一些設備。

So we -- particularly in North America, where we have insight into it. I think the other dynamic that we're in a better position now is people have released their budgets and their budgets really haven't changed. As I think most people have seen, CapEx is not changed at all, amongst most of the major carriers for this year and their intent is absolutely there. But what we've got greater insight into now is the planning and timing of those installations.

所以我們——尤其是在北美，我們對此有深入的了解。我認為我們現在處於更好位置的另一個動力是人們已經發布了他們的預算並且他們的預算確實沒有改變。正如我想大多數人已經看到的那樣，今年大多數主要營運商的資本支出根本沒有改變，他們的意圖絕對存在。但我們現在對這些安裝的規劃和時間表有了更深入的了解。

As we've turned the year, the budgets have been released, we're now sitting in early March, we do have a better visibility into it than we did, and it's not as much of a step function, if you will, Amit as we had anticipated before. And that's where we've best reflected the change in the guide.

隨著新年的到來，預算已經發布，我們現在正處於三月初，我們確實比以前有更好的可視性，而且它並不是一個階梯函數，如果你願意的話，阿米特正如我們之前所預料的。這就是我們在指南中最好地反映變化的地方。

Got it. That's really helpful. And then if I could just follow up, cloud continues to perform extremely well for you folks. I wonder if there's an element of some of the AI demand that has come into your numbers right now? Or do you think the AI opportunity is still much more of a future narrative but it's not impacting numbers right now. I'd love to just understand what's driving the cloud trend and if AI -- if you have time to see some AI benefit already?

知道了。這真的很有幫助。如果我能跟進的話，雲端運算繼續為你們表現得非常好。我想知道您現在的數據中是否包含一些人工智慧需求的元素？或者您是否認為人工智慧機會更像是未來的敘述，但目前它並沒有影響數字。我很想了解是什麼推動了雲端趨勢以及人工智慧——您是否已經有時間看到人工智慧的一些好處？

I would say we're not really seeing the -- now there is some AI traffic with the various offerings, Gemini, et cetera, GPT, that's out there. So that is generating some traffic but obviously not an appreciable step function. I think our understanding with these guys is that's all to come really about how they monetize the broader dimensions of AI. They're investing massively right now as we all know in compute. And figuring out how to then release that for monetization, which will then flow into the network.

我想說的是，我們並沒有真正看到 - 現在有一些人工智慧流量與各種產品，Gemini 等等，GPT 就在那裡。因此，這會產生一些流量，但顯然不是一個明顯的階躍函數。我認為我們對這些人的理解是，他們如何將更廣泛的人工智慧領域貨幣化。眾所周知，他們現在在計算領域進行了大量投資。並弄清楚如何將其釋放以實現貨幣化，然後貨幣將流入網路。

So what we're seeing is just basically business as usual cloud growth. I think you are seeing an acceleration of that. You've seen the SaaS companies do well as another sort of gauge of that. And I think we're seeing very robust. You saw it last year, we were up massively in network deployments with these guys and that was really cloud. I don't think you're seeing virtually any of the AI step function that we're all anticipating in those numbers yet.

因此，我們看到的雲端運算基本上一切如常。我認為你正在看到這種情況的加速。作為衡量這一點的另一種衡量標準，您已經看到 SaaS 公司表現出色。我認為我們看到的情況非常強勁。你去年就看到了，我們與這些人一起大規模進行了網路部署，這就是真正的雲端。我認為你實際上還沒有看到我們在這些數字中所期待的任何人工智慧步進功能。

The next question comes from Tal Liani with Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的塔爾·利亞尼。

How do we know that what we're seeing here in service providers is not structural, that it's your -- in your comments, you're talking about cyclical downturn that will recover absorption of inventory. When you talk to the carriers, they talk about a permanent decline in spending, their desire to spend less. Are there any parts of their spending that could be more structurally down that could be replaced by something else? Or do you have really confidence that this is just cyclical?

我們怎麼知道我們在服務提供者身上看到的不是結構性的，而是你的——在你的評論中，你談論的是週期性衰退，這將恢復庫存的吸收。當你與運營商交談時，他們會談到支出的永久性下降，以及他們減少支出的願望。他們的支出中是否有任何部分可以在結構上減少並可以用其他東西取代？或者你真的有信心這只是週期性的嗎？

Yes. Tal, this is a good question and obviously one that we're super focused on. I would separate it out. I would say in North America, I do not believe there's a structural sort of issue to it. It's really about absorption. Their CapEx, what they want -- their intent is actually to spend more and absorb more. And I think with all the major service provider, that is their intent. They want to catch up with their network builds.

是的。塔爾，這是一個很好的問題，顯然也是我們非常關注的問題。我會把它分開。我想說的是，在北美，我不認為有結構性問題。這確實與吸收有關。他們的資本支出，他們想要什麼——他們的意圖實際上是花費更多並吸收更多。我認為對於所有主要服務提供者來說，這就是他們的意圖。他們希望趕上網路建設的步伐。

I do think that there is a reticence around 5G. Obviously, it's not been the monetization event for many carriers around the world that was anticipated. And I do think that there's a curtailing of that spend in, which my own personal belief, I think is structural. I do not think that will have a major impact on the transmission and infrastructure build. I mean they're very focused on access and the build-out there in North America. So I think in total to it, I do not think there's a structural issue, notwithstanding my comments about 5G.

我確實認為人們對 5G 持沉默態度。顯然，這並不是全球許多業者預期的貨幣化事件。我確實認為支出有所減少，我個人認為這是結構性的。我認為這不會對傳輸和基礎設施建設產生重大影響。我的意思是他們非常關注北美的訪問和建設。因此，我認為總的來說，儘管我對 5G 有評論，但我並不認為有結構性問題。

Europe, I would think a little bit differently on. I think they have some inherent structural challenges there. You have 180 carriers in Europe. You have some tiny jurisdictions with multiple carriers, makes no economic sense. And I do think that, a, you're seeing a bit of a downturn in the economy in certain key countries like Germany, which is hugely influential in Europe. And I think they are more receptive to those kinds of challenges than the North American model where the economy continues to do well. So I think there are, Tal, some structural issues associated with the European piece and that's not new news. But they are more sensitive to the economic challenges.

歐洲，我的想法有點不同。我認為他們在那裡面臨一些固有的結構性挑戰。您在歐洲有 180 家營運商。你有一些擁有多家業者的小司法管轄區，這沒有經濟意義。我確實認為，a，你會看到某些關鍵國家的經濟出現了一些下滑，例如在歐洲具有巨大影響力的德國。我認為他們比經濟持續表現良好的北美模式更容易接受這類挑戰。所以我認為，塔爾，歐洲的部分存在一些結構性問題，這不是什麼新消息。但他們對經濟挑戰更加敏感。

In India, we think, is still going up and to the right. They're going to continue to build out their networks. We had a big year within India last year. We're going to be sort of flattish with them this year but India is going to be a great place for us for a long time.

我們認為，在印度，仍然在向上和向右。他們將繼續建立他們的網絡。去年我們在印度度過了重要的一年。今年我們對他們的態度會比較平淡，但印度將在很長一段時間內成為我們的好地方。

And we're not seeing any of that in Asia Pacific, either that sort of uncertainty.

我們在亞太地區沒有看到任何這種情況，也沒有看到那種不確定性。

The one thing I would say, Tal, is the driver for our business is demand for bandwidth. And that has grown and continues to grow at very rapid rates. Now the people who are building networks, to manage that demand really, the structure has somewhat changed toward the cloud providers. If you go back, ten years ago, they weren't buying any network gear. They're buying a significant part of it today. It's very possible that, that could expand over time. If there is any shift, that would be the shift from service provider to cloud providers.

塔爾，我要說的一件事是我們業務的驅動力是對頻寬的需求。而且這個數字已經成長並且持續以非常快的速度成長。現在，建構網路的人們為了真正管理這種需求，結構已經向雲端提供者發生了一些變化。如果你回到十年前，他們沒有購買任何網路設備。他們今天購買了其中的很大一部分。隨著時間的推移，這種情況很可能會擴大。如果有什麼轉變的話，那就是從服務提供者到雲端提供者的轉變。

Certainly in the long haul.

當然從長遠來看。

Yes. Yes.

是的。是的。

Next question comes from Simon Leopold with Raymond James.

下一個問題來自西蒙·利奧波德和雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

This is Jeff Koche in for Simon. So I was just hoping you can maybe hash out the strength in Europe this quarter, maybe how that reconciles with your comments on the weeks, maybe the weakening macro-outlook there? And as well as like Huawei swaps or displacement opportunities? It sounds like it's going really well in India.

這是傑夫·科奇（Jeff Koche）飾演西蒙。所以我只是希望你能討論一下本季歐洲的實力，也許這與你幾週的評論是否一致，也許是那裡疲軟的宏觀前景？還有華為的互換或置換機會嗎？聽起來印度的進展非常順利。

Yes, I'll deal with the first part. Our regional report reflects the region into which we deliver equipment. It doesn't necessarily reflect the type of customer. So the -- the big jump in deliveries into Europe were driven by cloud providers, not the service providers in Europe. The Huawei thing, there's still an opportunity ahead for us. Now the whole supply chain and COVID situation was actually a benefit to Huawei because they had gear. And service providers really wanted to stick with the status quo. They didn't necessarily want to build out stuff. And so for a combination of those 2 reasons, Huawei did pretty well over the last 2 years.

是的，我將處理第一部分。我們的區域報告反映了我們交付設備的區域。它不一定反映客戶的類型。因此，歐洲交付量的大幅成長是由雲端供應商推動的，而不是歐洲的服務供應商。華為的事，我們還有機會。現在整個供應鏈和新冠疫情實際上對華為有利，因為他們有設備。服務提供者確實希望維持現狀。他們不一定想建造東西。因此，由於這兩個原因的結合，華為在過去兩年中表現相當不錯。

The desire of Western economies to reduce their dependence upon China in general, and Huawei, in particular, has not abated. And we think that once we get through all of this dynamic of supply chain and everything else has happened over the last few years, their desires will events themselves in substitution of Huawei. We're seeing it in some places already, in the Nordics, in particular, in some places in Southern Europe. But we think it's going to continue.

西方經濟體減少對中國尤其是華為依賴的願望並未減弱。我們認為，一旦我們經歷了供應鏈的所有動態以及過去幾年發生的所有其他事情，他們的願望就會自行取代華為。我們已經在一些地方看到了這種情況，在北歐，特別是在南歐的一些地方。但我們認為這種情況將會持續下去。

Great. Great. Appreciate it. For my follow-up, we are getting -- there's been a lot of noise, buzz rather around the intra-data center opportunity for coherent technology. Maybe you can just help us understand like how that can be cost effective or when it will be cost effective, and what you think about the timing there and the sizing of that opportunity for you guys?

偉大的。偉大的。欣賞它。在我的後續行動中，我們發現——圍繞著資料中心內部一致性技術的機會存在著許多噪音和嗡嗡聲。也許您可以幫助我們了解如何實現成本效益或何時實現成本效益，以及您對時機的看法以及對您來說機會的大小？

A way to think about it is as the flow rates between GPUs increase and as the distances increased as they're forced to because of constraints like power, a lot of the techniques that were used in the WAN part of the network that brought coherent to the forefront, will replay themselves inside the data center. And some of the leaders in coherent, we being the market leader there, are going to have opportunities to use our technology in sort of that adjacent market.

一種思考方式是，隨著 GPU 之間的流量增加以及由於功率等限製而被迫增加的距離，網路的 WAN 部分使用的許多技術使一致性最前沿的，將在資料中心內重演。一些一致的領導者，我們是那裡的市場領導者，將有機會在鄰近市場中使用我們的技術。

From a timing perspective, I think you're looking at sort of the next generation, which is probably 2025 and beyond, to get in there, the consumption models will be quite different than the system business on the WAN. But the key fundamental technologies are the same things that we've been working in, in the Coherent space over multiple generations.

從時間角度來看，我認為您正在關注下一代（可能是 2025 年及以後），消費模式將與 WAN 上的系統業務完全不同。但關鍵的基礎技術與我們在相干公司幾代以來一直在研究的技術是一樣的。

Great. Yes. I think Coherent has put out a forecast for datacom transceivers could be like $15 billion by 2028. Is there a percentage that you would put that could be coherent?

偉大的。是的。我認為 Coherent 預測到 2028 年數據通訊收發器的銷售額可能會達到 150 億美元。您認為 Coherent 能達到的百分比是多少？

Yes. At this point, I think it's a little early to try to size how that slices off. There's obviously -- if you're coming at it from the existing generation of technology, you're trying to extend the life of that technology as long as you possibly can. And then the substitute of technology, we're talking about here is obviously trying to intercept where that saws off, I think, is still a bit of a crystal ball.

是的。在這一點上，我認為現在嘗試確定其分割方式還為時過早。顯然，如果您採用現有一代技術，您將盡力延長該技術的壽命。然後，我們在這裡討論的技術替代品顯然是試圖攔截鋸斷的地方，我認為，這仍然是一個水晶球。

Just to be clear, we do have a development track to develop those kinds of products in our R&D road map. And we are talking with major data center providers. So we're going to stay right on top of it. And when and if the shift occurs, we're going to be a part of it, we hope.

需要先明確的是，我們的研發路線圖中確實有開發此類產品的發展軌跡。我們正在與主要資料中心供應商進行洽談。所以我們將繼續關注它。我們希望，當這種轉變發生時，如果這種轉變發生，我們也將成為其中的一部分。

The next question comes from Meta Marshall with Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的梅塔·馬歇爾。

Wanted to dig into Europe a little bit. I know in the past, maybe some of that European telco spend was actually kind of indirect cloud spend as they kind of helped with data center builds for some of those customers. And so I just wanted to get a sense of kind of, if any of the weakness you're seeing is kind of on the indirect part? And if any of that's just due to kind of power constraints that we're hearing about in kind of building out data centers or just any commentary there on kind of the indirect portion? And then maybe just as a follow-up question. Just as -- Jim, on how much you plan to kind of work down inventory levels across the year would be helpful?

想要深入了解歐洲。我知道在過去，歐洲電信公司的部分支出實際上可能是間接的雲端支出，因為它們在某種程度上幫助了其中一些客戶建立資料中心。所以我只是想了解一下，你所看到的弱點是否是間接的？如果其中任何一個只是由於我們在建造資料中心時聽到的某種功率限製或只是由於對間接部分的任何評論而導致的？然後也許只是作為一個後續問題。就像——吉姆，你計劃在一年內降低庫存水準多少會有幫助？

Meta, there has been a shift over a few years where particularly the cloud providers used wholesale type capacity in Europe. Increasingly, in the last sort of couple of years, they've been going direct and taking dark fiber. And I think that has impacted some of the service providers, particularly the wholesalers. And obviously, they come direct to us as opposed through the carrier. So I think you have seen that dynamic, particularly in Europe. That's not the case in most other international jurisdictions where you've got regulatory issues and the rest of it. So it's much more of a hybrid in other countries such as India. But I do think that has impacted somewhat some of the wholesale capacity in Europe is now direct into the hyperscalers.

Meta，幾年來發生了變化，特別是雲端供應商在歐洲使用批發類型的容量。在過去的幾年裡，他們越來越多地採用直連光纖並採用暗光纖。我認為這影響了一些服務提供者，特別是批發商。顯然，他們是直接來找我們的，而不是透過承運人來的。所以我認為你已經看到了這種動態，特別是在歐洲。大多數其他國際司法管轄區的情況並非如此，那裡存在監管問題和其他問題。因此，在印度等其他國家，它更像是一種混合體。但我確實認為這在某種程度上影響了歐洲的一些批發能力，現在直接進入超大規模企業。

On the inventory question, Meta, we said that we were going to improve and reduce our inventory level this year, and we will. As you saw, we reduced our inventory by $66 million in Q1. And we've slowed the rate of material into our system to match our demand forecast, so we are confident we're going to take our inventory down this year. Because Q2 is going to be a bit lower than we expect and the rest of the year, a bit lower as well, we're probably not going to get down as low on inventory as we said we would. I think we said we were going to get it down by $300 million or something like that. And I think we'll get it down by a couple of hundred million, I would think. But I think on the other hand, it might grow in Q2 because the situation is a little bit late breaking for us, and we can't react to it quickly enough. But we will drive inventory down for the year by at least a couple of hundred million.

關於庫存問題，Meta，我們說過今年我們將改善和降低庫存水平，我們會的。正如您所看到的，我們在第一季減少了 6,600 萬美元的庫存。我們已經放慢了材料進入系統的速度，以符合我們的需求預測，因此我們有信心今年將減少庫存。由於第二季的庫存量將略低於我們的預期，今年剩餘時間也將略低一些，因此我們的庫存可能不會像我們所說的那樣低。我想我們說過要削減 3 億美元或類似的金額。我想我們會減少幾億。但我認為，另一方面，它可能會在第二季度增長，因為這種情況對我們來說有點晚了，我們無法足夠快地做出反應。但我們今年的庫存將減少至少幾億。

The next question comes from George Notter with Jefferies.

下一個問題來自傑弗里斯的喬治·諾特。

I guess I'm curious about where your product lead times are right now. I'm wondering if product lead times are quite short, and that's leading to some of the excess inventory taking longer to bleed off, can you just talk a little bit about that dynamic, lead times versus buffer stocks at customers?

我想我很好奇你們現在的產品交貨時間是多少。我想知道產品交貨時間是否很短，這會導致一些過剩庫存需要更長的時間才能消耗掉，您能談談動態的交貨時間與客戶的緩衝庫存嗎？

George, lead times -- we have a very broad portfolio, so lead times vary. But if you wanted to a single number on it, we sort of have published 12-week lead times to our customers. The reality is, as we've executed through Q1, we are executing at a much better rate than that in terms of lead times. We're approaching getting back to sort of pre-pandemic lead times, not quite there yet but approaching getting back to that. And I think that does have an impact in terms of our customer order behavior patterns. As they -- if they don't need to place it with 52-week lead time, they're not going to place them with 52-week lead time.

喬治，交貨時間——我們有非常廣泛的產品組合，因此交貨時間各不相同。但如果您想要一個數字，我們已經向客戶公佈了 12 週的交貨時間。現實情況是，正如我們在第一季執行的那樣，我們的執行速度比交貨時間好得多。我們即將回到大流行前的交貨時間，雖然還沒有完全達到，但已經接近回到那個狀態了。我認為這確實對我們的客戶訂單行為模式產生了影響。正如他們所說，如果他們不需要 52 週的交付時間，他們就不會為他們提供 52 週的交付時間。

Got it. And then I'm sorry, normal pre-pandemic lead times were -- what range also 52 weeks or?

知道了。然後我很抱歉，大流行前的正常交貨時間是 52 週還是什麼範圍？

In the portfolio for us, it was mid-single digits for weeks.

在我們的投資組合中，連續幾週處於中個位數。

Depending on the product line.

取決於產品線。

Got it. Okay. And do you think it's the case that customer inventories are -- is the issue -- it sounds like the issue is mostly North America. Is it broad-based across North America? Or is it more concentrated around a handful of customers?

知道了。好的。你認為客戶庫存的情況是這樣嗎——這就是問題所在——聽起來問題主要是在北美。它在整個北美地區都有廣泛的基礎嗎？還是更集中在少數客戶？

I would say it is North America. It's one or 2 examples internationally but they're not super meaningful to this conversation. I think it's mainly North America, and it's mainly the Tier 1s but it is sort of shared challenge across most of the larger carriers in North America. Who obviously tried to get out ahead of the whole supply chain piece. But now you've got this dynamic, where we and other vendors are turning up with enormous amounts of equipment.

我想說的是北美。這只是國際上的一兩個例子，但它們對本次對話沒有太大意義。我認為這主要是北美，而且主要是一級營運商，但這是北美大多數大型營運商面臨的共同挑戰。顯然，他試圖搶先於整個供應鏈。但現在你已經看到了這種動態，我們和其他供應商都帶著大量的設備出現。

I mean, I think we ship 24% more equipment last year than we did the prior year. And you think about all those trucks turning up at the same time with a bunch of other vendors to put the system together, and that's causing the challenges around their capacity and all the various facets of people, storage, logistics, fiber availability, et cetera, to back up. And it's just taken longer than we all including them would like or anticipate.

我的意思是，我認為去年我們運送的設備比前一年多了 24%。你會想到所有這些卡車與許多其他供應商同時出現以將系統組裝在一起，這對他們的能力以及人員、存儲、物流、光纖可用性等各個方面造成了挑戰, 進行備份。只是花費的時間比我們所有人（包括他們）希望或預期的時間要長。

And to your earlier point, until we kind of move down through that path and particularly with reduced lead times is -- it's super logical as to why we see the orders being what they are. They are improving and we are seeing the deployment. I want to stress that. This is not a sort of binary event. It's -- we're seeing improvements in absorption. The inventories are coming down. We're seeing an increase in orders in service providers. It's just not the step function, I think we collectively anticipated.

就您之前的觀點而言，直到我們沿著這條道路前進，特別是在交貨時間縮短的情況下，我們為什麼看到訂單是這樣的，這是非常合乎邏輯的。他們正在改進，我們正在看到部署。我想強調這一點。這不是一種二元事件。我們看到吸收率有所提高。庫存正在下降。我們看到服務提供者的訂單增加。我認為這不是階躍函數，這是我們共同預期的。

And to be clear, in this context, we're referring not just to telecom service providers but MSO service providers...

需要明確的是，在這種情況下，我們不僅指電信服務供應商，還指 MSO 服務供應商...

Yes, I'd include cable in there, too.

是的，我也會在其中包含電纜。

Yes.

是的。

Next question comes from Michael Genovese with Rosenblatt Securities.

下一個問題來自羅森布拉特證券公司的 Michael Genovese。

I wanted to follow up on the last question because I understand mostly what you're talking about with these North American service provider challenges but the comment on fiber availability. Could you flesh that out a little bit more? I'm kind of struggling to come up to speed with what that means.

我想跟進最後一個問題，因為我主要了解您所談論的這些北美服務提供者的挑戰，但對光纖可用性的評論。能再具體一點嗎？我有點難以理解這代表什麼。

Michael, you probably can appreciate the majority -- like the big builds and equipment consumptions are when people are putting down new routes or lighting new fibers, the process of procuring those fibers, even though everybody has intentions to put more fiber in the ground as North American customers have announced, there's a process of construction there and it takes time. And this I think is exasperated by the labor market in North America as well. So getting access to the fiber, tension is there. Timing is taking longer. Going through characterization of that fiber and then finally doing the construction delayed is just taking longer than we had anticipated with the volume that they're trying to do. They're working through it. Our visibility to it and where we can help our customers is on our installation services, and you can see that is up period-over-period quite substantially, it is happening. It's just taking longer than we anticipated going into the year.

邁克爾，你可能會欣賞其中的大多數——就像人們鋪設新路線或點燃新光纖時的大型建設和設備消耗一樣，採購這​​些光纖的過程，儘管每個人都打算在地下放置更多光纖北美客戶已經宣布，那裡有一個建設過程，需要時間。我認為北美的勞動市場也加劇了這一點。因此，在接觸光纖時，張力是存在的。時間越來越長了。對該光纖進行表徵，然後最終延遲施工，所花費的時間比我們預期的要長，而他們正在嘗試做的工作量。他們正在解決這個問題。我們對它的可見性以及我們可以在哪裡幫助我​​們的客戶是在我們的安裝服務上，你可以看到它在一段時間內大幅增長，它正在發生。只是比我們預期的今年要花更長的時間。

Okay. Great. And then I guess my next question, just the competitive environment for DCI, I mean it seems like you've maintained a very high level of market share in DCI. As ZR has become more important, are you finding a different set of competitors in the market? Or how has the competitive environment changed recently in DCI, if at all?

好的。偉大的。然後我想我的下一個問題是 DCI 的競爭環境，我的意思是，你們在 DCI 中似乎保持了非常高的市場份額。隨著 ZR 變得越來越重要，您是否在市場上發現了不同的競爭對手？或者 DCI 的競爭環境最近發生了怎樣的變化（如果有的話）？

Yes, I think, 2 different views of it, I guess, the ZR impact has not impacted our business at all. In fact, you can see record quarters for WaveServer in Q1 2024 results, a massive wave, and that's all DCI or for the most part, all DCI. So it's clearly not impacting our business as some people may have impacted our business with the web scale is up like 57% year-on-year, for -- last year for 2023. So again, a big part of that is various different flavors of data center inter-connect. So clearly not having a negative impact there. And in fact, I think you do those -- do the math and the market size, you'll include that we gain share with the GCNs last year.

是的，我認為，有兩種不同的看法，我想，ZR 的影響根本沒有影響我們的業務。事實上，您可以在 2024 年第一季的業績中看到 WaveServer 創紀錄的季度業績，這是一個巨大的浪潮，這一切都是 DCI 或大部分都是 DCI。因此，這顯然不會影響我們的業務，因為有些人可能會影響我們的業務，去年 2023 年的網路規模同比增長了 57%。同樣，其中很大一部分是各種不同的風格資料中心互連。所以顯然不會產生負面影響。事實上，我認為你做了這些——計算數學和市場規模，你會包括我們去年在 GCN 中獲得的份額。

In terms of the number of competitors from a pluggable perspective, yes, you start to get different sort of consumption models. At the end of the day, it's still a very limited number of folks that are investing in the key technologies that go into these ZR plugs. You have various different ecosystems that are trying to put them together. I'm a firm believer from a philosophy perspective, if you don't own some of the core technologies, you're probably not long for that world. But that will take some time to play out. And as you know, we own and control our own destiny, and all those key technologies.

從可插拔的角度來看，就競爭對手的數量而言，是的，你開始獲得不同類型的消費模式。歸根結底，投資這些 ZR 插頭關鍵技術的人仍然非常有限。您有各種不同的生態系統正在嘗試將它們組合在一起。從哲學角度我堅信，如果你不擁有一些核心技術，你可能就活不長了。但這需要一些時間才能發揮作用。如您所知，我們擁有並控制自己的命運以及所有這些關鍵技術。

And just to be clear, we have roughly 50% market share globally with web-scale companies. If you take out that, which Huawei does, which is just about entirely in China, then it gets to be a bit higher than that. So we're very comfortable with our share position and we think it's going to remain at that level, probably hard for us to gain share from this point because they all want a second source. But we'll take 50% plus.

需要明確的是，我們的網路規模公司在全球擁有約 50% 的市場份額。如果你把它去掉，華為所做的，幾乎完全在中國，那麼它會比這個高一點。因此，我們對我們的份額地位非常滿意，我們認為它將保持在這個水平，從現在起我們可能很難獲得份額，因為他們都想要第二個來源。但我們會收取 50% 以上。

Next question comes from Alex Henderson with Needham.

下一個問題來自 Alex Henderson 和 Needham。

I was hoping we could talk a little bit about the mix between product and service in '24 expectations. I realize that the service was up quite a bit in the January quarter but it was actually down significantly quarter-to-quarter because the January quarter is typically a lock down quarter for most service providers. In terms of mix, you pointed out that there was a shift to transceivers, which they will install but not line systems.

我希望我們能討論一下 24 年期望中產品和服務之間的組合。我意識到該服務在一月份季度增長了很多，但實際上每個季度都大幅下降，因為一月份季度對於大多數服務提供者來說通常是鎖定季度。在混合方面，您指出已經轉向收發器，他們將安裝收發器，但不安裝線路系統。

So I'm assuming that the line systems installation is going to increase meaningfully quarter-to-quarter. And therefore, you're looking at, what, $210 million to $220 million of service, which would imply that the to -- the product sales are down, what, 25% to 35%, something in that range? And how does that play out over the course of the year as the installation continues to be churning through what's been shipped as opposed to new shipments? And then does it fall off at some point after an under-shipment period? So we get out in the fourth quarter and into the first half of '25? Does this service start to roll off? Can you give us some guidance on that?

因此，我假設線路系統安裝量將逐季度顯著增加。因此，你會看到，2.1 億至 2.2 億美元的服務，這意味著產品銷售額下降了，25% 至 35%，在這個範圍內？隨著安裝量不斷增加，而不是新發貨，這一年的情況如何？那麼在發貨不足期之後，它會在某個時候脫落嗎？那麼我們會在第四季結束並進入 25 年上半年嗎？這項服務開始停止了嗎？您能給我們一些指導嗎？

Let me give a little context here, Alex. You have to think about that services business. Really, it's 2 businesses. One is maintenance and one is installation. Those are the 2 things that we do. We have some other consulting-type practices and advanced type services but those 2 make up the bulk of it. The maintenance expense is going to grow essentially as our product sales grow because almost everybody takes maintenance with our products. So that's one piece.

讓我在這裡提供一些背景信息，亞歷克斯。你必須考慮服務業務。確實，這是 2 項業務。一是維護，一是安裝。這是我們所做的兩件事。我們還有一些其他諮詢類型的實踐和高級類型的服務，但這兩者構成了其中的大部分。隨著我們產品銷售的成長，維護費用將大幅成長，因為幾乎每個人都對我們的產品進行維護。所以這是一件。

On the implementation side, it's not one size fits all. For most of the larger carriers in the U.S., we don't do a ton of installation. Now we have started to as they have tried to work through their inventory levels. But in the past, we didn't do a lot of installation for them. In places like Asia, South America, sometimes in Europe, we do a lot of installation. So our services mix is going to be, I think, more related to where our sales are. And I'd say this that we love expanding our implementation business, and we'd love to continue to help our big customers here in the U.S., and that's what we're trying to do.

在實施方面，它並不是一刀切的。對於美國大多數大型營運商，我們不會進行大量安裝。現在我們已經開始這樣做，因為他們正在努力解決庫存水準。但在過去，我們並沒有為它們做很多安裝。在亞洲、南美，有時在歐洲等地，我們進行了大量的安裝工作。因此，我認為，我們的服務組合將與我們的銷售情況更加相關。我想說的是，我們喜歡擴大我們的實施業務，我們很樂意繼續幫助我們在美國的大客戶，這就是我們正在努力做的事情。

Scott?

史考特？

Yes. That's the dominant dynamic, Jim, you're right. I think there's some nuances in there. The installation services pieces of it, it varies by geography, and it varies by portfolio. So historically, we haven't done a lot of installation services on our Routing and Switching portfolio, for example. As those solution sets get more sophisticated as our customers are, and we'll continue to look to us to do more installation.

是的。這是主導動力，吉姆，你是對的。我認為這裡面有一些細微差別。安裝服務的一部分，它因地理位置而異，並且因產品組合而異。例如，從歷史上看，我們沒有在路由和交換產品組合上提供大量安裝服務。隨著這些解決方案集隨著我們的客戶變得越來越複雜，我們將繼續期待我們進行更多的安裝。

Mixed geographically. In some parts of the world, we do those installation services ourselves. In some parts of the world, the customers do themselves, in some parts, they turned to third-party partners to do it. And there's -- it varies quite a bit on the mix of where that revenue is coming from. And that's going to change over time. In addition to that, it's not a major piece of it. But our services team is also busy trying to expand their service offers to our customers, and that we hope to grown over time. We think our service business is going to continue to grow at or above the growth rate for the company.

地理上混合。在世界某些地方，我們自己提供這些安裝服務。在世界上的某些地方，客戶自己做，在某些地方，他們轉向第三方合作夥伴來做。而且收入來源的組合差異很大。隨著時間的推移，這種情況將會改變。除此之外，它並不是其中的主要部分。但我們的服務團隊也正忙於擴大為客戶提供的服務範圍，我們希望隨著時間的推移，服務範圍會不斷擴大。我們認為我們的服務業務將繼續以等於或高於公司的成長率成長。

Just to be clear, though, the seasonal swing between the January and the April quarter, normally services are lower in the first quarter because of the lockdown. Are we expecting it to be up sequentially $212 million, $215 million, something like that, in which case, the majority of the quarter-to-quarter decline is in the product side?

不過要先明確的是，由於一月和四月之間的季節性波動，由於封鎖，第一季的服務通常會較低。我們是否預計它會比上一季增長 2.12 億美元、2.15 億美元，類似的情況，在這種情況下，季度環比下降的大部分來自產品方面？

It's always very risky to try to give individual slices of what we expect of our business. I would think this because of the dynamics that we talked about because we will show growth in Q2, in our overall business, it is likely that services will grow as well. So I don't have a number for you but I think it will probably grow just like the product revenue will grow in Q2.

試圖將我們對業務的期望分給個人，這總是非常危險的。我認為這是因為我們談到的動態，因為我們將在第二季顯示成長，在我們的整體業務中，服務很可能也會成長。所以我沒有給你一個數字，但我認為它可能會成長，就像第二季的產品收入成長一樣。

The next question comes from David Vogt with UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的大衛‧沃格特。

Maybe just digging back into backlog and orders. Maybe, Jim, can you help us understand where backlog exited the quarter? I think last quarter, you mentioned it was roughly around $2.6 billion. And so what we're trying to figure out is what the orders look like going forward? And how to kind of deregulate the growth rate in '25 in terms of an order trajectory? And I have a follow-up.

也許只是重新挖掘積壓訂單和訂單。吉姆，您能否幫助我們了解本季積壓訂單的情況？我想上個季度，您提到大約是 26 億美元左右。那我們要弄清楚的是，未來的訂單會是什麼樣子呢？以及如何在訂單軌跡方面放鬆對 25 年增長率的管制？我有一個後續行動。

Our backlog -- we ended backlog in Q1 at $2.2 billion. So you can sort of calculate what our orders were in Q1. We said last quarter that we expect our backlog generally speaking, to come down for the full year. Because we are approaching historical levels of lead times and customer ordering behaviors are probably going to track those in the past, which means that our ending year backlog is going to approach a level like the levels we had prior to all the craziness of the past 3 years, which traditionally has been about 35% to 40% of the coming year's revenue. And that consists of $1 billion or so of services and about $1 billion of products and software. That's what it's been historically. I mean that's what makes up to $2.2 billion.

我們的積壓訂單—第一季的積壓訂單達到了 22 億美元。所以你可以計算出我們第一季的訂單量。我們上季表示，總體而言，我們預計全年的積壓訂單將會減少。因為我們正在接近交貨時間的歷史水平，而客戶的訂購行為可能會追蹤過去的水平，這意味著我們的年底積壓將接近我們在過去 3 年所有瘋狂事件之前的水平年收入，傳統上約為來年收入的35% 至40%。其中包括價值約 10 億美元的服務以及約 10 億美元的產品和軟體。歷史上就是如此。我的意思是這相當於 22 億美元。

Great. And so maybe if I just extrapolate that comment in '24 into '25, maybe I'm doing the math wrong here but it would imply that your order growth rate in '25 would have to be up somewhere like 35% to 40% relative to '24. Are we doing the math right? And if that's the case, what does that imply for SP orders coming back next year? I know you didn't give a full year guide yet, it's early but just trying to kind of triangulate on how we get to those that 6% to 8% multiyear target that you just provided?

偉大的。因此，也許如果我只是將 24 年的評論推斷到 25 年，也許我在這裡做的數學是錯誤的，但這意味著你在 25 年的訂單增長率必須相對上升 35% 到 40%到'24 。我們計算得對嗎？如果是這樣的話，這對明年 SP 訂單恢復意味著什麼？我知道您還沒有給出全年指南，現在還為時過早，但只是想對我們如何實現您剛剛提供的 6% 至 8% 多年目標進行三角測量？

Rather than give you a number for our growth rate in orders next year, what I would say is this, a healthy business, which we've had for a long, long time prior to the supply chain disruption and COVID and all that sort of stuff, we typically ran orders in a given year at some fraction above our revenue, whether it was 5%, whether it was 10%, some number like that. So we're not at those levels right now, which means that we do have to have some catch-up as we move through the next couple of quarters and possibly some catch up next year. But that's what we expect our order volumes to be, 1.05x to 1.1x our revenue for a year, for example, and it varies by quarter.

我不會給你們提供明年訂單成長率的數字，而是要說的是，這是一項健康的業務，在供應鏈中斷和新冠疫情以及所有此類事件發生之前，我們已經擁有很長一段時間了。東西，我們通常在某一年以高於我們收入的一定比例運行訂單，無論是 5%，還是 10%，諸如此類的數字。因此，我們現在還沒有達到這些水平，這意味著我們在接下來的幾個季度中確實必須迎頭趕上，甚至可能在明年迎頭趕上。但這就是我們預期的訂單量，例如，一年收入的 1.05 倍到 1.1 倍，而且每季都有所不同。

And that's obviously a function of the lead time piece as well. So typically our -- if the world ever gets normalized, it would be slightly ahead of the revenues for the year. Now there may be some bumpiness as we get into that. I mean, for example, in '22, I think our orders were close to $6 billion, just to give you an order of magnitude around the challenges that we're having from a backlog point of view.

這顯然也是交貨時間的一個函數。因此，如果世界實現正常化，我們的收入通常會略高於當年的收入。現在，當我們進入這個階段時，可能會遇到一些坎坷。我的意思是，例如，在 22 年，我認為我們的訂單接近 60 億美元，只是為了讓您了解我們從積壓的角度來看我們面臨的挑戰的數量級。

Next question comes from Ruben Roy with Stifel.

下一個問題來自魯本·羅伊和斯蒂菲爾。

Gary, I had a follow-up on some of the commentary around AI and then just increasing order rates with cloud. And just trying to work through not seeing yet sort of the impacts of traffic growth outside of the data center, the traffic that you mentioned being created by the GPs, et cetera, and yet the order rates are up. So, am I right in assuming that the cloud DCI business is mostly for a long haul? And if that's the case, can you talk to sort of how you're thinking about the sustainability of sort of those orders around that specific business, cloud DCI?

加里，我對有關人工智慧的一些評論進行了跟進，然後只是透過雲端來提高訂單率。只是試圖解決尚未看到資料中心外部流量成長的影響，您提到的由 GP 等創建的流量，但訂單率卻上升了。那麼，我關於雲端 DCI 業務主要是長期業務的假設是否正確？如果是這種情況，您能否談談您如何考慮圍繞特定業務（雲端 DCI）的訂單的可持續性？

Yes. I think it's more of a mix than you think around long haul and metro amongst these. When we talk about them and we all tend to, these hyperscalers as a sort of generic grouping. You think about their business models, they're all very different, be it search, be it cloud, et cetera, Azure type services. So, therefore, their networks are actually very different as well. And including all of the submarine cables and the metro piece and the rest of it. So these are now very large, very complicated global networks that is not just simple data center connectivity, point to point. They are -- they use 6,500 in full configuration with resilience, et cetera, across there. So they are fully blown intelligent networks.

是的。我認為這比你想像的長途和地鐵更加混合。當我們談論它們時，我們都傾向於將這些超大規模資料視為一種通用分組。你想想他們的商業模式，他們都非常不同，無論是搜索，還是雲，等等，Azure 類型的服務。因此，他們的網路實際上也非常不同。包括所有海底電纜和地鐵以及其餘部分。因此，現在這些都是非常龐大、非常複雜的全球網絡，不僅僅是簡單的點對點資料中心連接。他們在那裡使用了 6,500 台具有彈性的完整配置，等等。所以它們是完全成熟的智慧網路。

So, to your point, Ruben, around that on the traffic that they're obviously flowing right now is data center to data center. The opportunity is when you get the AI applications coming out of the data center to monetize, they have to go to the WAN. They have to go to consumers in their various forms, be them enterprise or general consumers. And it has to pass across that network. And also from a model point of view, it needs to talk to the instantiation locally, be edge compute or whatever the devices are, it needs to maintain connectivity to it. It's not just you dump the model down there at the edge of the network and you're good to go for a month. This stuff has to maintain connectivity.

因此，魯本，就您的觀點而言，他們現在明顯流動的流量是資料中心到資料中心。機會是，當你讓來自資料中心的人工智慧應用程式貨幣化時，它們必須進入廣域網路。它們必須以各種形式走向消費者，無論是企業還是一般消費者。它必須通過該網路。而且從模型的角度來看，它需要與本地實例進行通信，無論是邊緣運算還是無論設備是什麼，它都需要保持與其的連接。這不僅僅是你把模型扔到網絡邊緣然後一個月就可以了。這個東西必須保持連接性。

So we're all sort of -- we're excited about the opportunity, but that hasn't yet come out of the data center but they're obviously investing massive amounts of investment in the compute and in the application and monetization of that. That has -- that investment has not flowed to the network yet.

所以我們都對這個機會感到興奮，但這還沒有從數據中心出來，但他們顯然在計算、應用程式和貨幣化方面投入了大量投資。投資尚未流向網路。

The other dynamic on the AI piece, having impact on the WAN traffic is because of the massive amounts of compute and the power required to do that. Every one of the cloud providers is talking about the need to further distribute their compute platforms. And that's going to mean more data centers, more geographical distribution. And guess what, when you do that, you've got to network with them together. So that's going to be more transport, more networking gear. That's going to be another dynamic as AI starts to have an influence on, I'll just say, the classic transport part of the network.

人工智慧部分的另一個動態對廣域網路流量產生影響是因為需要大量的運算和運算能力。每一位雲端供應商都在談論進一步分發其運算平台的必要性。這將意味著更多的資料中心和更多的地理分佈。你猜怎麼著，當你這樣做時，你必須與他們建立聯繫。因此，這將需要更多的運輸、更多的網路設備。這將是另一種動態，因為人工智慧開始對網路的經典傳輸部分產生影響。

I think I'd add, Gary, in terms of where are we today with these folks. It's -- yes, it's their campus/metro, DCI, it's their terrestrial core networks. It's their submarine networks but it's also across our Transport portfolio, it's line systems, it's Coherent modems and however they want to instantiate it. And to some people's surprise, it's our Software portfolio and it's our Services Portfolio as well. So it's quite a broad set of solutions that were in those -- in that segment with.

蓋瑞，我想我要補充一點，我們今天和這些人在一起的情況如何。這是——是的，這是他們的校園/地鐵、DCI，這是他們的地面核心網絡。這是他們的海底網絡，但也涉及我們的運輸產品組合、線路系統、相干調製解調器以及他們想要實例化的方式。令某些人驚訝的是，這是我們的軟體產品組合，也是我們的服務產品組合。因此，在該領域有一套相當廣泛的解決方案。

I really appreciate the detail, guys. That's really helpful for me. I can sneak in a quick one for Jim on gross margins. Jim, just sort of maintaining the mid-40s for the full year, given lower volumes and lower revenue. Can you just -- I might have missed this but did you talk through mix or linearity of how you think gross margins play out over the next several quarters?

我真的很欣賞這些細節，夥計們。這對我來說真的很有幫助。我可以給吉姆快速介紹一下毛利率。吉姆，考慮到產量和收入的下降，全年的銷售量大概維持在 40 多歲左右。我可能錯過了這一點，但您是否談過您認為未來幾季毛利率的混合或線性？

Yes, I think they're going to be a bit lower in Q2, and that's a mix and volume because as we said, we're not going to have the volume that we expected in Q2. But I think we'll average in the mid-40s for the full year. We started the year at 45.7%. It was a good strong start, and we'll get back to something like that.

是的，我認為第二季的銷量會略低，這是混合和銷售的結果，因為正如我們所說，我們在第二季度不會達到預期的銷售。但我認為全年的平均將在 40 多歲左右。我們年初的成長率為 45.7%。這是一個好的開端，我們將回到類似的事情。

Great. Thank you, Ruben, and thank you, everybody, for joining us today. We appreciate your attention, and we look forward to seeing everyone at OFC. Thank you, and have a good day.

偉大的。謝謝魯本，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。感謝您的關注，我們期待在 OFC 見到大家。謝謝你，有美好的一天。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。