富蘭克林資源 (BEN) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Franklin Resources Earnings Conference Call for the quarter ended December 31, 2023. Hello. My name is Joanna, and I will be your call operator today. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Selene Oh, Chief Communications Officer and Head of Investor Relations for Franklin Resources. You may begin.

歡迎參加富蘭克林資源公司截至2023年12月31日止季度的盈餘電話會議。您好，我叫Joanna，今天將擔任本次電話會議的接線員。提醒您，本次會議將被錄音。（接線員指示）現在我想把會議交給本次會議主持人——富蘭克林資源公司首席傳播長兼投資人關係主管Selene Oh。您可以開始了。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today to discuss our quarterly results. Statements made on this conference call regarding Franklin Resources, Inc., which are not historical facts are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements involve a number of known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from any future results expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements.

早安，感謝各位今天加入我們，一同討論本季業績。本次電話會議中關於Franklin Resources, Inc.（富蘭克林資源公司）所作、非屬歷史事實之陳述，均屬《1995年私人證券訴訟改革法》所定義之「前瞻性陳述」。此等前瞻性陳述涉及多項已知與未知之風險、不確定性及其他重要因素，可能導致實際結果與該等前瞻性陳述所明示或暗示之任何未來結果存在重大差異。

These and other risks, uncertainties and other important factors are just described in more detail in Franklin's recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including in the Risk Factors and the MD&A sections of Franklin's most recent Form 10-K and 10-Q filings.

上述及其他風險、不確定性與其他重要因素，已在富蘭克林近期向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交之文件中作更詳細說明，包括富蘭克林最新Form 10-K與10-Q申報文件中的「風險因素」及「管理層討論與分析（MD&A）」章節。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Jenny Johnson, our President and Chief Executive Officer.

現在我想把電話會議交給我們的總裁兼執行長Jenny Johnson。

Thank you, Selene. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss Franklin Templeton's results for the first fiscal quarter of 2024. I'm joined by Matthew Nicholls, our CFO and COO; and Adam Spector, our Head of Global Distribution. We're happy to answer any questions you have in just a few minutes. But first, I'd like to call out some notable highlights from the quarter.

謝謝你，Selene。各位好，感謝各位今天加入我們，一同討論富蘭克林坦伯頓（Franklin Templeton）2024會計年度第一季的業績。我與我們的財務長兼營運長Matthew Nicholls，以及全球通路主管Adam Spector一同出席。我們很快就會回答各位的提問。不過首先，我想先點出本季幾項值得注意的重點。

Our first fiscal quarter results reflect ongoing momentum in a number of significant areas across asset classes investment vehicles and geographies. Our efforts are always focused on meeting the varied investment needs of our diverse global client base across market cycles, while staying at the forefront of the asset management industry, driven by increased expectations of interest rate cuts by the Fed and other central banks amidst disinflation, the 2023 market rally was particularly concentrated in the last quarter of the calendar year, regardless of the market environment, investors remain cautious.

我們2024會計年度第一季的結果，反映出我們在多個重要領域（涵蓋各資產類別、投資工具與地理區域）持續累積的動能。我們的努力始終聚焦於在不同市場循環中，滿足多元全球客戶群的各式投資需求，同時保持在資產管理產業的前沿。在通膨降溫之際，市場對聯準會及其他央行降息的預期升高，2023年的市場反彈特別集中在曆年最後一季。無論市場環境如何，投資人仍保持謹慎。

According to Morningstar, global money market assets stood at $7.7 trillion as of December 31, 2023, the highest level since Morningstar started collecting the data in 2007. Broadly speaking, our specialist investment managers see recession risks moderating and expect the global economy to slow over the course of 2024. But even as the economy slows, there are many opportunities for investors to put that cash to work into risk assets.

根據Morningstar資料，截至2023年12月31日，全球貨幣市場資產達7.7兆美元，為Morningstar自2007年開始蒐集該數據以來的最高水準。整體而言，我們的專精投資經理人認為衰退風險正在緩和，並預期全球經濟在2024年將逐步放緩。但即使經濟放緩，投資人仍有許多機會將這些現金投入風險資產。

Specific to the equity markets, last year, we saw a small group of stocks dominate market returns with the top 5 stocks representing 23% of the S&P 500 total market cap. Compare that to the height of the dot-com bubble in March 2000 when that number was 18%. While our investment professionals regard companies like the Magnificent 7 as market leaders, the level of relative outperformance for these stocks is likely unsustainable.

就股票市場而言，去年我們看到少數股票主導市場報酬，前5大股票占標普500總市值的23%。相較之下，在2000年3月網路泡沫高峰時，該數字為18%。雖然我們的投資專業人士將「七巨頭（Magnificent 7）」等公司視為市場領導者，但這些股票相對超額表現的幅度很可能難以持續。

We believe that this backdrop has created an opportunity for active managers like Franklin Templeton that offer a full range of investment capabilities across public and private markets, spanning geographic boundaries in vehicles of our clients' choice. With greater clarity on interest rates in 2024, and as investors look to deploy cash on the sidelines, we believe Franklin Templeton is well positioned.

我們認為，這樣的背景為像富蘭克林坦伯頓這類主動式管理機構創造了機會：我們在公開與私募市場均提供完整的投資能力，跨越地理界線，並可依客戶偏好透過不同投資載具進行配置。隨著2024年利率走向更為明朗，且投資人準備部署場邊資金，我們相信富蘭克林坦伯頓已具備良好定位。

In short, 2024 is likely to be a year in which balance and diversification are once again rewarded. During the most recent quarter, our clients gravitated towards alternatives, multi-asset equity, ETFs and SMAs, which all saw positive long-term net flows. Continued client interest in private market strategies led to net inflows for our 3 largest alternative managers.

簡言之，2024年很可能是「均衡」與「分散」再次獲得回報的一年。在最近一季，我們的客戶偏好另類投資、多元資產、股票、ETF與SMA（分離管理帳戶），上述類別皆呈現正向的長期淨流入。客戶對私募市場策略的持續興趣，也帶動我們三家最大另類投資管理機構的淨流入。

Additionally, we continue to see aggregate positive net flows in non-U.S. regions. We are pleased to announce that our acquisition of Putnam Investments closed on January 1, with $148 billion in assets under management. Putnam adds complementary investment capabilities and a track record of strong investment performance. In fact, 87% or higher, a Putnam's mutual fund AUM outperformed peers over the 1, 3, 5 and 10-year periods.

此外，我們持續看到非美國地區整體呈現正向淨流入。我們很高興宣布，我們對Putnam Investments的收購已於1月1日完成交割，其管理資產規模（AUM）為1,480億美元。Putnam帶來互補的投資能力以及強勁的投資績效紀錄。事實上，Putnam的共同基金AUM中，有87%或以上在1年、3年、5年與10年期間的表現優於同業。

The transaction also enhances our presence in the attractive retirement and insurance markets. The addition of Putnam brings Franklin Templeton's AUM to approximately $1.6 trillion.

此交易亦強化我們在具吸引力的退休與保險市場的布局。納入Putnam後，富蘭克林坦伯頓的AUM約達1.6兆美元。

In addition, Great-West Lifeco, a member of the Power Corporation group of companies has become a long-term shareholder in Franklin Resources consistent with its ongoing commitment to asset management. We are delighted to have the talented team at Putnam join us and pleased to have Great-West as a key stakeholder.

此外，Power Corporation企業集團旗下成員Great-West Lifeco，基於其對資產管理業務的長期承諾，已成為富蘭克林資源公司的長期股東。我們很高興Putnam優秀的團隊加入，也很高興Great-West成為重要利害關係人。

Turning now to specific results for the quarter, starting with assets under management. Ending AUM increased by 6% to $1.46 trillion from the prior quarter and increased by 5% from the prior year quarter, primarily due to market appreciation. Average AUM declined by 2% from the prior quarter to $1.39 trillion and increased by 3% from the prior year quarter.

接著談本季的具體結果，先從管理資產規模（AUM）開始。期末AUM較前一季增加6%至1.46兆美元，較去年同期增加5%，主要受市場上漲帶動。平均AUM較前一季下降2%至1.39兆美元，較去年同期增加3%。

Our specialist investment managers continue to produce competitive investment returns across a broad array of strategies. Investment performance this quarter resulted in 61%, 46%, 60% and 61% of our strategy composite AUM outperforming their respective benchmarks on a 1, 3, 5 and 10-year period.

我們的專精投資經理人持續在廣泛策略中提供具競爭力的投資報酬。本季投資績效使得我們策略綜合AUM中，有61%、46%、60%與61%分別在1年、3年、5年與10年期間的表現優於各自基準。

Notably, investment performance for the 5-year period jumped from 47% in the prior quarter to 60% in the recent quarter, primarily due to certain taxable fixed income strategies. With interest rates at current levels, fixed income opportunities are considered more attractive now and going forward may provide a better total return option over high-yielding cash equivalents.

值得注意的是，5年期的投資績效占比由前一季的47%躍升至本季的60%，主要受部分應稅固定收益策略帶動。在目前利率水準下，固定收益機會被認為更具吸引力，未來也可能相較於高收益的現金等價物，提供更佳的總報酬選擇。

On the mutual fund side, the majority of AUM beat their peer groups and improved percentile rankings quarter-over-quarter in the 1, 3 and 10-year periods. One of our largest funds managed for yield was the primary driver of the decline in 5-year performance. Turning to flows. Long-term net outflows inclusive of reinvested distributions were $5 billion compared to net outflows of $7 billion in the prior quarter and net outflows of nearly $11 billion in the prior year quarter.

在共同基金方面，多數AUM的表現優於同業群組，且在1年、3年與10年期間的百分位排名較前一季改善。我們其中一檔以收益為目標管理的最大型基金，是5年期績效下滑的主要原因。接著談資金流向。包含再投資配息在內的長期淨流出為50億美元，較前一季淨流出70億美元改善，亦較去年同期接近110億美元的淨流出縮小。

Reinvested distributions were $11 billion compared to almost $3 billion in the prior quarter and $12 billion in the prior year quarter. Alternative net inflows were $2.7 billion, driven by growth into private market strategies, which were partially offset by outflows in liquid alternative strategies. Our 3 largest alternative managers, Benefit Street Partners, Clarion Partners and Lexington partners, each had net inflows in the current quarter with a combined total of $3.8 billion. Client interest was strong across a number of alternative strategies on wealth management platforms under the alternatives by Franklin Templeton brand in the U.S.

再投資配息為110億美元，較前一季接近30億美元增加，與去年同期的120億美元相近。另類投資淨流入為27億美元，主要由私募市場策略的成長帶動，但部分被流動性另類策略的流出所抵銷。我們三家最大另類投資管理機構——Benefit Street Partners、Clarion Partners與Lexington Partners——本季皆呈現淨流入，合計達38億美元。在美國，以「Alternatives by Franklin Templeton」品牌於財富管理平台上，多項另類策略的客戶需求強勁。

Earlier this month, Lexington Partners announced the closing of its latest flagship global secondary fund with $22.7 billion of total capital commitments. Fund 10 ranks among the largest funds raised to date and significantly exceeded Lexington's prior secondary fund, which closed with $14 billion in 2020. Fund 10 attracted a diverse group of over 400 investors, including public and corporate pensions, sovereign wealth funds, insurance companies and wealth channel distribution partners globally.

本月稍早，Lexington Partners宣布其最新旗艦全球次級市場基金完成募資，總資本承諾達227億美元。第10號基金（Fund 10）名列迄今募資規模最大的基金之一，且大幅超越Lexington於2020年完成募資、規模為140億美元的前一檔次級基金。Fund 10吸引了超過400位多元投資人，包括公共與企業退休金、主權財富基金、保險公司，以及全球財富通路的分銷合作夥伴。

We are delighted that approximately 20% of the capital raised in the fund came from the wealth management channel, which demonstrates the power of our coordinated global distribution network. We successfully brought together the alternatives expertise of Lexington and our alternatives by Franklin Templeton specialist sales team and leveraged our generalist sales team who have deep relationships across the advisor market.

我們很高興該基金約20%的募資資本來自財富管理通路，這展現了我們協同運作的全球分銷網絡之力量。我們成功整合Lexington的另類投資專業能力與我們「Alternatives by Franklin Templeton」的專業銷售團隊，並運用我們與顧問市場建立深厚關係的通用型銷售團隊。

Also this month, Benefit Street Partners closed its fifth flagship private credit fund with $4.7 billion of total capital commitments. Reflecting the strong demand for the asset class, BSP exceeded its fundraising target. We believe the current market opportunity and backdrop for U.S. direct lending is attractive and BSP has significant underwriting experience, loan structuring expertise and focus on deep due diligence, which provides us with a significant competitive advantage. BSP also announced the completion of the merger between Franklin BSP Lending Corporation and Franklin BSP Capital Corporation, business development companies.

同樣在本月，Benefit Street Partners完成其第五檔旗艦私募信貸基金募資，總資本承諾達47億美元。反映該資產類別的強勁需求，BSP超越其募資目標。我們認為目前美國直接放貸的市場機會與環境具吸引力，而BSP擁有豐富的承作（underwriting）經驗、貸款結構設計專長，以及對深度盡職調查的重視，為我們帶來顯著的競爭優勢。BSP亦宣布完成Franklin BSP Lending Corporation與Franklin BSP Capital Corporation（商業發展公司，BDC）之合併。

BSP believes this transaction will be immediately accretive to its shareholders and unlock nearly $700 million of capital that can be deployed into a very attractive origination environment. For further context, alternative assets now represent 18% of our AUM and comprise approximately 25% of our total adjusted investment management fees for the last 12 months. In terms of other areas of activity during the quarter, multi-asset net inflows were $500 million, driven by Canvas, our custom indexing solution platform and Franklin Templeton Investment Solutions.

BSP認為此交易將立即提升股東的每股盈餘（具增益性，accretive），並釋放近7億美元資本，可在極具吸引力的放款起源（origination）環境中加以部署。補充說明，另類資產目前占我們AUM的18%，並在過去12個月約占我們調整後投資管理費總額的25%。就本季其他活動而言，多元資產淨流入為5億美元，主要由Canvas（我們的客製化指數解決方案平台）以及Franklin Templeton Investment Solutions所帶動。

Canvas has achieved net inflows each quarter since the platform launched in September 2019, and AUM has more than doubled to approximately $6 billion since the close of the acquisition. This quarter, Canvas generated net inflows of approximately $400 million and continues to garner client interest across retail and institutional channels.

自2019年9月平台推出以來，Canvas 每一季均實現淨流入，且自收購完成以來，管理資產規模（AUM）已增加逾一倍至約 60 億美元。本季，Canvas 產生約 4 億美元的淨流入，並持續在零售與機構通路獲得客戶關注。

Equity net inflows were $200 million, including reinvested distributions of $8 billion, while active equities continued to be impacted industry-wide by the risk-off environment we saw positive net flows into all-cap growth, smart beta, all cap value, equity income, large-cap value and small-cap core strategies, among others.

股票淨流入為 2 億美元，其中包含 80 億美元的再投資分配；同時，主動股票在全產業仍受我們所見的避險（risk-off）環境影響。不過，我們在全市值成長、智慧貝塔、全市值價值、股利收益、大型股價值及小型股核心等策略（以及其他策略）均錄得正向淨流量。

Although fixed income net outflows were $8.4 billion. Client interest drove positive net flows into tax-efficient global opportunistic mortgage-backed securities and multisector strategies. From a regional perspective, we continue to benefit from a regionally focused distribution model, which resulted in aggregate positive net flows in non-U.S. regions for the third consecutive quarter.

儘管固定收益淨流出為 84 億美元，客戶需求仍帶動稅務效率型全球機會型不動產抵押貸款證券（MBS）以及多元債券（multisector）策略出現正向淨流量。從區域角度來看，我們持續受惠於以區域為重點的銷售模式，使非美國地區的合計淨流量連續第三季為正。

For context, we now manage approximately $450 billion in non-U.S. markets, including emerging markets that are poised to grow. Although the U.S. saw long-term net outflows, we are pleased to see our U.S. gross sales, excluding reinvested distributions, improved by approximately 15% from the prior quarter.

作為背景說明，我們目前在非美國市場管理約 4,500 億美元資產，其中包含具成長潛力的新興市場。儘管美國出現長期淨流出，我們仍樂見美國的總銷售額（不含再投資分配）較前一季改善約 15%。

We continue to see the benefit of offering investors strategies in a range of investment vehicles. ETFs, for instance, generated net inflows of approximately $1 billion, representing the fifth consecutive quarter with net flows of approximately $1 billion, resulting in over a 40% increase in ETF AUM from the prior year quarter. Including Putnam, ETF AUM is approximately $20 billion. Importantly, we now offer ETFs from a dozen different specialist investment managers, truly bringing the best Franklin Templeton has to offer to the market.

我們持續看到，向投資人提供多種投資載具的策略所帶來的效益。例如，ETF 約產生 10 億美元的淨流入，為連續第五季淨流量約 10 億美元，使 ETF 的 AUM 較去年同期增加逾 40%。若包含 Putnam，ETF AUM 約為 200 億美元。重要的是，我們目前提供來自 12 家不同專業投資經理人的 ETF，真正將 Franklin Templeton 最優勢的產品帶到市場。

Earlier this month, we launched one of the industry's first bitcoin ETF, consistent with our emphasis on innovation and staying ahead of disruptive technologies. SMAs continue to grow in popularity industry-wide as individual investors look to customize their portfolios. According to Cerulli Associates, SMAs represent about $2 trillion in assets and are expected to reach $2.9 trillion by 2026.

本月稍早，我們推出了業界最早的一批比特幣 ETF 之一，符合我們強調創新並走在顛覆性科技前沿的策略。獨立管理帳戶（SMA）在全產業持續受到歡迎，因為個人投資人希望客製化其投資組合。根據 Cerulli Associates，SMA 資產規模約為 2 兆美元，預期到 2026 年將達到 2.9 兆美元。

Our SMA AUM ended the quarter at $125 billion and generated positive net flows for a third consecutive quarter. We continue to make progress with SMA strategies across platforms with Canvas, muni ladder and Franklin Income strategies, each in a positive flow territory for the quarter. Our institutional pipeline saw increased level of funding this quarter, bringing won but unfunded mandates to over $13 billion. The pipeline remains diversified by asset class and across our specialist investment managers.

我們的 SMA AUM 於季末為 1,250 億美元，並連續第三季產生正向淨流量。我們持續推進各平台上的 SMA 策略，包括 Canvas、市政債梯（muni ladder）及 Franklin Income 策略，本季皆處於正向流量區間。我們的機構業務管線本季資金到位程度提高，使已中標但尚未撥款的委任（won but unfunded mandates）超過 130 億美元。該管線在資產類別及各專業投資經理人之間仍保持多元分散。

Turning briefly to financial results. Adjusted operating income declined by 18.5% to $417 million from the prior quarter, and increased by 5.5% from the prior year quarter. We continue to focus on strong expense discipline and our net cash and investments position allows us to continue to invest in growth and innovation for the benefit of clients, shareholders and employees.

簡要談一下財務結果。調整後營業利益較前一季下降 18.5% 至 4.17 億美元，較去年同期則增加 5.5%。我們持續專注於嚴格的費用控管，而我們的淨現金與投資部位使我們得以持續投入成長與創新，造福客戶、股東與員工。

Finally, in December, Franklin Templeton was recognized as one of the best places to work in money management by pension and investments. This recognition is a source of pride for us and the credit goes to all of our employees around the world who worked tirelessly on behalf of our clients. I'd like to sincerely thank them for their hard work and dedication to our organization.

最後，在 12 月，Franklin Templeton 獲《Pensions & Investments》評選為資產管理業最佳雇主之一。這項肯定令我們深感自豪，功勞歸於全球所有員工，他們不懈地為客戶努力。我想由衷感謝他們的辛勤付出與對本公司的投入。

Now let's open it up to your questions. Operator?

現在我們開放提問。接線員？

(Operator Instructions) First question comes from Alex Blostein from Goldman Sachs.

（接線員指示）第一個問題來自高盛（Goldman Sachs）的 Alex Blostein。

So maybe just to get some of the numbers questions out of the way, obviously, with Putnam closed, maybe, Matt, you can give us an update of couple of items, but maybe one, where do you see the management fee, excluding performance fees and kind of catch-up fees jumping off point for the first quarter, first calendar quarter of this year and just broader update, I guess, on accretion and contribution for Putnam for this year.

我想先把一些數字面的問題先問完。顯然 Putnam 已完成交割，或許 Matt 你可以就幾個事項給我們更新。第一，若排除績效費以及類似追補費（catch-up fees）的項目，你如何看待今年第一季（曆年第一季）的管理費率起點？另外，也想更廣泛地更新一下 Putnam 今年對每股盈餘增益（accretion）與貢獻度的情況。

Okay. Alex, I mean that should probably just give you the forward guide to put things into perspective, that will help get through the Putnam update also. So in terms of the effective fee rate, remember, last quarter, I mentioned we expect it to be around 39 basis points consistent with previous quarters.

好的。Alex，我想我應該先給你前瞻指引，讓整體更有脈絡，這也有助於理解 Putnam 的更新。就有效費率（effective fee rate）而言，請記得上季我提到，我們預期約為 39 個基點，與前幾季一致。

We actually ended up at 39.7 or a little bit higher. The reason for that is about 1 basis point or 0.9 basis points was to do with the Lexington catch up fees. So if you think about that for the second quarter, fiscal second quarter guide, we're expecting that to be consistent again excluding these episodic catch-up fee or any other episodic management fee events to about the high 38, so high 38 basis points, very consistent with the previous quarter and other quarters that we presented recently.

實際上我們最後是 39.7 個基點，略高一些。原因在於約 1 個基點或 0.9 個基點與 Lexington 的追補費有關。因此，若看第二季（會計年度第二季）的指引，我們預期在排除這類偶發性的追補費或任何其他偶發性管理費事件後，將再次維持一致，約在 38 個基點的高檔，也就是高 38 個基點，與前一季以及我們近期呈現的其他季度非常一致。

So that's in terms of EFR. I'll give the annual EFR guide in the second, which includes Putnam. Of course, we closed Putnam on January 1. And so our first full quarter will actually be this guide I'm giving you now. I thought it would be useful to provide the guide for the fiscal second quarter, inclusive of Putnam, but I will call out the individual components. Putnam, you can see that we're being disciplined with our expenses around Franklin and being transparent about the difference between Franklin and expenses and Putnam additions.

以上是關於 EFR。我稍後會提供年度 EFR 指引，其中會包含 Putnam。當然，我們在 1 月 1 日完成 Putnam 交割，因此我們第一個完整季度其實就是我現在提供的這份指引。我認為提供包含 Putnam 的會計年度第二季指引會很有幫助，但我也會點出各個組成項目。你可以看到，我們在 Franklin 端的費用控管保持紀律，並且透明地揭露 Franklin 的費用與 Putnam 新增費用之間的差異。

So I mentioned the EFR already being in the high 38s excluding any sort of one-off episodic revenue. In terms of compensation and benefits, assuming a $50 million performance fee quarter, including Putnam, we'd expect total comp and benefits to be approximately $815 million. This includes $65 million of comp and benefits for Putnam. Just for further perspective, we expect to be able to bring that down to about $50 million to $55 million by the end of the fiscal year. Again, this assumes $50 million of performance fees.

我先前已提到，在排除任何一次性、偶發性收入後，EFR 會落在高 38 個基點。就薪酬與福利而言，假設本季績效費為 5,000 萬美元，且包含 Putnam，我們預期薪酬與福利合計約為 8.15 億美元，其中包含 Putnam 的 6,500 萬美元薪酬與福利。再補充一些背景，我們預期到本會計年度末可將該金額降至約 5,000 萬至 5,500 萬美元。再次強調，這是假設績效費為 5,000 萬美元。

Information Systems and Technology, we expect to be $155 million for the quarter, this includes $25 million for Putnam, and we expect to bring that $25 million down to between $15 million and $20 million by the time we reach the end of our fiscal year. Occupancy, we expect to be approximately $80 million. Recall in the last call, I mentioned that we're going to have a period of double rent based on our consolidation of New York City office space of $12 million.

資訊系統與科技方面，我們預期本季為 1.55 億美元，其中包含 Putnam 的 2,500 萬美元；我們預期到本會計年度末可將這 2,500 萬美元降至 1,500 萬至 2,000 萬美元。辦公場地（Occupancy）方面，我們預期約為 8,000 萬美元。請回想上次電話會議我提到，因我們整併紐約市辦公空間，將有一段期間需支付雙重租金（double rent）共 1,200 萬美元。

Last quarter, I mentioned $8 million, but that was only for a short quarter in terms of how long we're -- 2 months out of the 3 for the double rent. This time, we have for 3 months, which is $12 million for the double rent and $10 million for Putnam in this context. I wouldn't guide $10 million down yet because we're still working on real estate optimization.

上季我提到的是 800 萬美元，但那只是因為雙重租金在該季只涵蓋較短期間——三個月中的兩個月。這次我們涵蓋三個月，因此雙重租金為 1,200 萬美元；在此脈絡下，另有 Putnam 的 1,000 萬美元。我目前還不會指引把這 1,000 萬美元往下調，因為我們仍在進行不動產最佳化。

And for G&A, we expect the consolidated amount to be $175 million, which includes $35 million for Putnam. We expect this to come down to about $30 million by the time we reached the end of the fiscal year. In terms of what this means for annual guide, you'll recall that in the last guide we gave, I mentioned that our fiscal 2024 at the -- then levels of markets and revenue expectations was expected to be about flat to 2023.

至於一般與行政費用（G&A），我們預期合併後金額為 1.75 億美元，其中包含 Putnam 的 3,500 萬美元。我們預期到本會計年度末可降至約 3,000 萬美元。就這對年度指引的意涵而言，你會記得在上次我們提供的指引中，我提到在當時的市場水準與營收預期下，我們的 2024 會計年度預期大致與 2023 持平。

Excluding Putnam, and excluding performance fees and excluding the double rent in New York City, I would now guide that amount, which excludes Putnam to about 1% to 2% higher, but that's because we now anticipate all else from any of -- that revenue would be 5% higher for the year, including Putnam and excluding performance fees, but including the $50 million of double rent.

若排除 Putnam、排除績效費，並排除紐約市的雙重租金，我現在會將該金額（不含 Putnam）指引為高出約 1% 至 2%；但這是因為我們目前預期，在其他條件不變下——在包含 Putnam 且排除績效費、但包含 5,000 萬美元雙重租金的情況下——全年營收將高出 5%。

We would currently expect total adjusted operating expenses for fiscal '24 to be about $4.55 billion to $4.6 billion. And for perspective, this assumes the Putnam expenses addition to this is about $375 million to $380 million.

我們目前預期 2024 會計年度的調整後營業費用總額約為 45.5 億至 46 億美元。作為參考，這假設 Putnam 新增的費用約為 3.75 億至 3.8 億美元。

In terms of the EFR, back to your first question, for the year, inclusive of Putnam because Putnam has a slightly lower effective fee rate, it brings the overall amount down to -- down about 0.2 basis points. So it brings the number for the guide for the year to about the mid-38, mid- to slightly better than mid-38. This excludes any catch-up fees, episodic fees on performance fees, as I mentioned at the beginning.

就 EFR 而言，回到你第一個問題，全年在包含 Putnam 的情況下，由於 Putnam 的有效費率略低，會使整體水準下調約 0.2 個基點。因此，全年指引的數字約在 38 個基點的中段——中段到略高於中段 38 個基點。這不包含任何追補費、偶發性費用或績效費相關項目，如我一開始所提。

Great. Okay. I think I got all of that or most of it, and I'm sure folks will follow up as well. I guess my only other follow-up for you. I think we talked about Putnam being around $150 million contribution to operating income on exit run rate. Can we just get an update on where that stands now? Obviously, their asset base is a little bit higher as well, but just want to get a sense whether $150 million is still kind of the run rate number we should be thinking about by the end of your fiscal year.

很好。好的。我想我已經掌握了全部或大部分內容，而且我相信大家也會再追問。我想我對你唯一的另一個追問是：我們之前談到 Putnam 在退出後的營運收入貢獻，以退出時的運行率（exit run rate）計大約是 1.5 億美元。能否請你更新一下目前的情況？很明顯他們的資產基礎也稍微更高一些，但我只是想了解，到你們財政年度結束時，1.5 億美元是否仍然大致是我們應該思考的運行率數字。

Yes. So just to break that down further, so I'll start the call with all these numbers. But just to break this down a little bit further. So in terms of revenue, obviously, we don't normally guide revenue, but we want to be useful in terms of modeling purposes for the second quarter, again, fiscal second quarter, Putnam revenues stand-alone would be about $160 million.

是的。那我再把它拆得更細一點，我在電話會議一開始就會把這些數字都講一遍。不過再進一步拆解一下：就營收而言，很明顯我們通常不會對營收提供指引，但我們希望在第二季的建模上能有所幫助——同樣是指財政年度第二季——Putnam 單獨計的營收大約會是 1.6 億美元。

Of that, $135 million is management fee revenue and $25 million is in the other revenue item, that's for the TA basically. We would have said between $85 million and $100 million of expenses in the first 9 months, so through our fiscal year, $85 million to $100 million. And by the time we reach the end of 9/30, at the end of our fiscal year, our expense savings for the full 2025 would be at least $150 million. This translates to get specifically to your question around operating income addition, Alex. This translates into probably between $150 million and $170 million of operating income contribution from the transaction.

其中 1.35 億美元是管理費收入，2,500 萬美元列在其他收入項目，基本上是 TA（轉讓代理）相關。我們先前會說在前 9 個月、也就是到我們財政年度為止，費用大約在 8,500 萬到 1 億美元之間。而到 9/30、也就是我們財政年度結束時，我們在 2025 全年的費用節省至少會達到 1.5 億美元。回到你關於營運收入增量的問題，Alex：這換算下來，該交易帶來的營運收入貢獻大概會在 1.5 億到 1.7 億美元之間。

In terms of how we think this translates into. Obviously, there's a lot of moving parts below the line, but how this translates into accretion dilution, it's probably just very slightly accretive, maybe one centers about that. In the second fiscal quarter, so the first fiscal quarter that we'd have on Putnam it's accretive right away.

至於我們怎麼看這會如何反映出來——很明顯在稅後淨利以下（below the line）有很多變動因素——但就增厚/稀釋（accretion/dilution）而言，可能只是非常輕微的增厚，大概一美分左右。在財政年度第二季，也就是我們把 Putnam 納入的第一個財政季度，會立刻就是增厚的。

And by the time we reach the full year, it's probably near high single digit cents accretion and that translates into about a 3% accretive situation for full year '24. Remembering that's only 9 months of Putnam that's where we expect things to be. Assuming revenue stays where it is today, and markets stay where they are today and so on.

而到全年時，增厚可能接近高個位數美分，換算成 24 年全年大約是 3% 的增厚。請記得那只包含 Putnam 的 9 個月，這就是我們預期的狀況。前提是假設營收維持在今天的水準、市場也維持在今天的水準，等等。

The next question comes from Craig Siegenthaler from Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行（Bank of America）的 Craig Siegenthaler。

My question is on the alternatives net flow trajectory. If we back out the 2 flagship fundraisers at Lexington and Benefit Street, there would have been a large swing in net flows over the last 12 to 18 months. So I wanted your perspective on the flow trajectory in terms of net flows from alts. And are you expecting other funds to kind of step up and fill in that gap?

我的問題是關於另類投資（alternatives）的淨流量走勢。如果把 Lexington 和 Benefit Street 兩個旗艦募資產品扣除，過去 12 到 18 個月的淨流量會出現很大的擺動。所以我想聽聽你對另類投資淨流量走勢的看法。你們是否預期其他基金會「補上」並填補那個缺口？

Thanks, Craig. So in the last 2 years, we have had about $40 billion in fundraising for our private markets. That was offset a bit by $12 billion in net outflows in the liquid alternatives. That just gives you a little bit of perspective there. We anticipate this year of fundraising between $10 billion and $15 billion in the private markets. And I would expect in this environment to have that translate into alternative asset revenue growth that's at the mid-single digits.

謝謝，Craig。過去兩年，我們在私募市場（private markets）的募資大約是 400 億美元；其中一部分被流動型另類（liquid alternatives）的 120 億美元淨流出所抵銷。這提供一點背景。今年我們預期私募市場募資在 100 億到 150 億美元之間。在這樣的環境下，我會預期這將轉化為另類資產營收成長約中個位數百分比（mid-single digits）。

So far, in Q1, you've probably seen that we raised $5 billion in the private markets and that between closing of Lexington's flagship fund and BSP. In the same period, we had about $1.1 billion in net outflows in the liquid alts. Just to kind of look forward for the rest of the year, we can't talk about specific funds. But the areas that we think there's strong interest is alternative credit, specifically like direct lending, we see interest both in the U.S. and Europe. There's opportunities in the alternative credit in special situations, opportunistic real estate debt as well as CLOs.

到目前為止，在第一季你們大概也看到，我們在私募市場募了 50 億美元，這介於 Lexington 旗艦基金與 BSP 的結案（closing）之間。同一期間，我們的流動型另類出現約 11 億美元的淨流出。展望今年剩餘時間，我們不能談特定基金；但我們認為需求強勁的領域包括另類信貸（alternative credit），特別是直接放貸（direct lending），我們在美國與歐洲都看到興趣。此外，另類信貸中的特殊情況（special situations）、機會型不動產債（opportunistic real estate debt）以及 CLO 也都有機會。

And just on that real estate debt point, as you see less and less of the regional banks having retracted in that space, we think there's both an opportunity to do very well there and strong client interest in that space. With respect to secondary, just as a reminder, Lexington does a lot more than just their flagship offering. They have offerings in middle market and co-invest offerings.

另外就不動產債這點而言，隨著越來越多的區域性銀行在該領域收縮，我們認為那裡既有很好的表現機會，也有強勁的客戶興趣。至於次級市場（secondary），提醒一下，Lexington 做的不只是旗艦產品；他們也有中型市場（middle market）以及共同投資（co-invest）等產品。

2023 was the third consecutive year where secondary industry surpassed the $100 billion in the fund raise, and we think that, that -- there just continues to be strong demand. And just again, a supply demand issue that keeps feeds very high, where you had $6 trillion deployed in private equity and only, say, $150 billion deployed in secondaries and strong demand by the LPs and GPs because of liquidations being down and distributions being down to have a portion of their secondary portfolios picked up.

2023 年是次級市場產業連續第三年募資規模超過 1,000 億美元，我們認為需求仍然非常強勁。再者，這仍是供需問題，使得費用（fees）維持在很高水準：私募股權已部署約 6 兆美元，但次級市場部署可能只有約 1,500 億美元；同時，由於清算（liquidations）下降、分配（distributions）下降，LP 與 GP 都有強烈需求，希望有一部分次級投資組合能被承接。

With respect to real estate, our 3 largest funds at Clarion are perpetually fundraising. We see opportunities to continue to expand in Europe. And then we're incredibly excited about the success that we had in the wealth channel with Lexington, where 20% of the fund raise of Lex X fund came from the wealth channel. And this has been years of building up our capabilities with the FT alternatives where we built both a team of specialists, the 30-plus specialists to help assist our wholesaling team.

就不動產而言，我們在 Clarion 的三大基金都是持續性募資（perpetually fundraising）。我們看到在歐洲持續擴張的機會。另外，我們對 Lexington 在財富通路（wealth channel）的成功感到非常振奮：Lex X 基金募資中有 20% 來自財富通路。這是多年累積能力的成果；透過 FT alternatives，我們建立了專家團隊——30 多位專家——來協助我們的通路銷售（wholesaling）團隊。

We've leveraged our academy to not only educate our own force, but also to help our distribution partners educate their advisors on how to think about this. And so it's a lot of years in the making, and we're really excited to see it come together with this fundraise. But that same expertise is going to be very helpful in both private credit as well as real estate.

我們也運用我們的學院（academy），不僅教育自家團隊，也協助我們的通路合作夥伴教育他們的理財顧問，讓他們知道該如何思考這類產品。所以這是多年耕耘的成果，我們很高興看到這次募資把它整合起來。而同樣的專業能力，對私募信貸以及不動產也會非常有幫助。

And Jenny, I would add 2 things in terms of the momentum we've had in the wealth channel. One is the success we've had to date with things like Lexington, mean that we're able to now have more meaningful conversations with our distribution partners about calendar placement many quarters into the future, which really helps us plan our product launches.

Jenny，我再補充兩點，談談我們在財富通路的動能。第一，我們目前在 Lexington 等產品上的成功，意味著我們現在能與通路合作夥伴就未來好幾個季度的行事曆檔期安排（calendar placement）進行更有意義的對話，這確實有助於我們規劃產品上市。

At the same time, we're now in a position where our distribution partners want to work with us to co-create products. So we're working on doing that together so that the products we come to market with in the wealth management channel are meeting their needs. The final item is that a lot of our success to date has been in the U.S. market in terms of wealth management, and we're now building out our specialist capabilities, our education, our academy, et cetera, in markets outside of the U.S. where we hope to have a similar level of success in the wealth management channels there.

同時，我們也已經處在一個位置：通路合作夥伴希望與我們共同創造（co-create）產品。因此我們正一起合作，讓我們在財富管理通路推出的產品能符合他們的需求。最後一點是，我們迄今在財富管理方面的許多成功主要來自美國市場；我們現在也正在美國以外的市場建立專家能力、教育、學院等，希望在那些市場的財富管理通路也能取得類似程度的成功。

The next question comes from Bill Katz from TD Cowen.

下一個問題來自 TD Cowen 的 Bill Katz。

So first question, maybe switch up the conversation a little bit, just talk about capital. You announced a pretty sizable repurchase authorization, have some equity that you have issued in concert with the transaction of Putnam. Looking at your balance sheet, it looks like you're saying about sort of net cash of zero if you sort of adjust for the debt. How should we be thinking about maybe the tempo or pacing of capital deployment or buyback as we think through the year?

第一個問題，我們或許稍微換個話題，談談資本。你們宣布了一個相當可觀的庫藏股回購授權，也在 Putnam 交易中同步發行了一些股權。看你們的資產負債表，如果把債務做調整後，你們看起來是在說淨現金大約為零。當我們思考今年時，你們希望我們如何看待資本部署或回購的節奏與步調？

Yes. Thanks, Bill. I'll take that. And then, Jenny, maybe you'd like to comment also. So as usual, Bill, we're focused on making sure that we maintain our dividend and the same trajectory that's been on since the 1980s. We are very focused on organic growth investments. There is a ton going on, as you all know, in the industry. And there's a lot of call on capital for internal growth and internal projects and investments. So they're our 2 most important things.

是的，謝謝，Bill。我來回答，然後 Jenny 也許你也想補充。照例，Bill，我們的重點是確保維持股利，以及自 1980 年代以來一直延續的同樣成長軌跡。我們也非常專注於有機成長（organic growth）的投資。你們都知道，產業裡有非常多事情正在發生；內生成長、內部專案與投資對資本的需求也很大。所以這兩件事是我們最重要的優先事項。

Then we've got debt service coming up this year are $250 million. Obviously, if the market becomes more reasonably priced in terms of debt, perhaps we access the debt markets at the end of the year or stuff like that. But we want to position ourselves to be able to pay that debt down with our cash. We're absolutely going to hedge our employee grants as we always explain.

接著，今年我們有到期的債務償付（debt service）為 2.5 億美元。很明顯，如果債務市場的定價變得更合理，也許我們會在年底進入債券市場之類的操作。但我們希望讓自己處於能用現金償還該筆債務的狀態。我們也絕對會像以往解釋的一樣，對員工授予（employee grants）進行避險（hedge）。

And then what I'd say is that -- and this is sort of the interplay between M&A and share repurchases. We've been very active, obviously, as you know, in terms of M&A to make sure we've got the right strategies at both institutional and retail and so on as we've discussed extensively. And when that slows down, which it has done for us, we've got 1 or 2 more payments in the next 1 to 2 years in terms of M&A. But once that's done, we'll be in a position where the M&A we look at is even much more strategic involving shares like we've done with Putnam, Great-West Life, for example, or it's involving much smaller M&A transactions to fill in gaps, a few gaps that we've got.

接著我想說的是——這其實有點像併購（M&A）與股票回購之間的相互作用。如你所知，我們在併購方面一直非常積極，顯然是為了確保我們在機構端、零售端等各方面都具備正確的策略，這點我們也已經深入討論過。而當併購活動放緩時——對我們而言確實已經放緩——就併購而言，未來 1 到 2 年我們還有 1 到 2 筆付款。但一旦這些完成後，我們所評估的併購將會更偏向策略性，可能會像我們與 Putnam、Great-West Life 所做的那樣涉及以股份為對價；或者是規模更小的併購交易，用來補足我們仍有的少數缺口。

And that means we can be more opportunistic with our share repurchases. And as you've seen from the last couple of quarters, we certainly picked that up a little bit. But the backdrop is complicated, market's quite volatile and a lot going on globally that influences the market. So we're constantly assessing that backdrop. But I would say that we would hope what else remaining equal to move into more of a capital return position as we've demonstrated, both with dividend and share repurchase over the last couple of quarters in the future versus just being very much focused on M&A.

這也意味著我們在股票回購上可以更具機會主義。正如你在過去幾個季度看到的，我們確實把回購力度稍微提高了一些。但大環境很複雜，市場波動相當大，全球也有很多事情在影響市場，所以我們會持續評估這樣的背景。不過我會說，在其他條件不變的情況下，我們希望未來能更進一步轉向資本回饋的定位——正如我們在過去幾個季度透過股利與股票回購所展現的——而不是只把重心放在併購上。

Okay. That's super helpful. And just as a follow-up, Jenny, perhaps for yourself or Matt, or Adam. Any sense or can you give us an update on how the insurance mandates are -- the momentum is building there. I think there was some $20-odd billion that should flow in. So once the deal has been completed, and then how you think about the backlog behind that? And maybe the broader question underneath that is what are the early stage discussions with the enhanced distribution opportunity now that the transaction is complete?

好的。這非常有幫助。再追問一下，Jenny，可能你自己或 Matt、或 Adam 來回答。對於保險委託（mandates）的進展，你們是否能提供一些感覺或更新——那邊的動能是否正在累積？我記得大概有 200 多億美元應該會流入。所以在交易完成之後，這些資金何時會進來？以及你們如何看待其後的待辦量（backlog）？另外更廣泛的問題是：在交易完成後，針對強化的通路分銷機會（enhanced distribution opportunity），目前早期階段的討論進展如何？

Well, so I mean, obviously, we have the $25 billion that we've talked about with Great-West Life, and that will come in kind of through the year. And it's a mix of multiple our SIMs with the bulk of it actually going to Western, but goes -- it has alternatives in there. And as well as fixed income and equity. And we announced that we're going to be a sub-advisor for Venerable. And part of that is because we -- when we acquired Western, we acquired real expertise in understanding the insurance space, and we've been able to leverage that capability more broadly. But Adam, you want to talk about some additional things that you're seeing.

嗯，我的意思是，很明顯我們談過與 Great-West Life 相關的 250 億美元，這些資金會在一年當中陸續進來。它會分配到我們多個 SIM（專業投資經理）之中，其中大部分其實會到 Western，但也會——其中包含另類投資；同時也包含固定收益與股票。我們也宣布將擔任 Venerable 的次投顧（sub-advisor）。其中一部分原因是，當我們收購 Western 時，我們也取得了對保險領域的深厚專業，能夠理解保險產業，而我們也已經能把這項能力更廣泛地加以運用。不過 Adam，你要不要談談你看到的一些其他進展。

Okay. I would say just in terms of scale, our insurance business is about $170 billion now, and that's not including the flows we've talked about from the Power-related companies. So it's a very significant business. As Jenny said, to be successful in a lot of the general account area, you've not only need to have investment expertise, but really insurance, domain-specific expertise, technology compliance.

好的。我會說，就規模而言，我們的保險業務現在大約是 1,700 億美元，而且這還不包含我們談到的、來自 Power 相關公司的資金流入。所以這是一個非常重要的業務。如 Jenny 所說，要在很多一般帳戶（general account）領域取得成功，你不僅需要投資專業，還需要真正的保險領域專業（domain-specific expertise）、科技與合規能力。

We're one of the few firms we think to combine both of those. And then the partnership with Power Corp. has also allowed us to co-create products with them that we think will be very successful in the marketplace, and you're seeing some launches there as well. The team there has been -- Putnam has been very successful in the DC channel as well as in insurance. And we think bringing those salespeople on to our team now that they have a wider array of products to sell will really hockey stick our efforts there as well.

我們認為自己是少數能把這兩者結合起來的公司之一。此外，與 Power Corp. 的合作也讓我們能與他們共同開發（co-create）我們認為在市場上會非常成功的產品，你也看到那邊有一些產品推出。那邊的團隊——Putnam——在 DC 通路以及保險領域也都非常成功。我們認為，現在把那些銷售人員納入我們的團隊，且他們有更廣泛的產品組合可以銷售，將會讓我們在那邊的努力出現「曲棍球棒式」的加速成長。

And just a little bit more perspective on the $25 billion, Bill, just to be clear. But right now, for all intents purposes, for modeling purposes, we don't have any of that in. I mean we have a little bit, but it's not really nothing's really hit the revenue line yet. We expect, as Jenny mentioned, about 2/3 of this to be kind of investment grade and a little bit emerging market and other corporate credit across a broad range of our specialist investment managers.

Bill，關於 250 億美元，我再補充一點觀點，先說清楚。就目前而言，從各方面來看、就建模（modeling）而言，我們基本上還沒有把那部分納入。我是說我們有一點點，但其實收入端（revenue line）還沒有真正反映出來。我們預期，如 Jenny 提到的，大約 2/3 會是投資級（investment grade），另外有一點新興市場以及其他公司信用（corporate credit），分布在我們廣泛的專業投資經理之間。

As you think about modeling, I think it's probably appropriate to think about the effective fee rate being in the mid-teens. I think Jenny mentioned that as a whole. This will likely to begin in earnest later on this quarter that we're in now. So kind of March time, maybe March, April, that sort of thing. And of course, we will update you when we have large inflows associated with this, we will provide that context and make sure we're transparent with you about when that comes in.

就建模來看，我認為把有效費率（effective fee rate）視為十幾個基點的中段（mid-teens）可能是合適的。我想 Jenny 也提到整體大概是這樣。這項資金流入很可能會在我們目前這一季的後段開始明顯發生，也就是大概 3 月左右，可能 3 月、4 月這樣的時間點。當然，一旦與此相關出現較大的資金流入，我們會更新你們，提供相關背景，並確保在何時入帳這件事上對你們保持透明。

But just to be clear, beyond the $25 billion, we expect to grow -- there's a lot of opportunities to grow beyond the $25 billion. And even with this, we're just alongside other asset managers that also have important relationships with the Power group of companies. So we're just alongside them. We're increasing market share, frankly, where it should be aligned with what we -- the capabilities regarding the size of our franchise.

但要說清楚的是，除了這 250 億美元之外，我們預期還會成長——在 250 億美元之上仍有很多成長機會。即便如此，我們也只是與其他同樣與 Power 集團公司有重要關係的資產管理公司並列。我們只是與他們並行。我們坦白說正在提升市占率，而這應該要與我們——就我們平台規模所具備的能力——相匹配。

The next question comes from Daniel Fannon from Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Daniel Fannon。

A couple of clarifications. Matt, I just want to confirm the 1Q guide for comp that was, I believe, $815 million around that included $50 million of performance fees. Did the full year guide of the $4.55 billion to $4.6 billion assume a $50 million a quarter performance fee contribution?

有幾點需要釐清。Matt，我想確認一下第一季（1Q）薪酬（comp）的指引，我記得大概是 8.15 億美元左右，其中包含 5,000 萬美元的績效費（performance fees）。那麼全年指引 45.5 億到 46 億美元，是否假設每季都有 5,000 萬美元的績效費貢獻？

Yes, plus the $93 million that we had this -- in the first quarter. So it's $93 million, $50 million, $50 million, $50 million.

是的，再加上我們第一季的 9,300 萬美元。所以是 9,300 萬、5,000 萬、5,000 萬、5,000 萬。

Yes. Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then just on the Lexington what's happened -- I'd like to just clarify what's in the numbers now in terms of AUM and flows that we've seen as of 12/31. And then in terms of catch-up fees, we got the disclosure for this quarter and last, but should we assume given the final close in January, another round of catch-up fees here for the March quarter?

是的，了解。好的，這很有幫助。接著關於 Lexington 發生的事情——我想釐清一下，截至 12/31，我們目前在數字裡所反映的 AUM 與資金流（flows）是哪些。然後就追溯費用（catch-up fees）而言，我們拿到了本季與上一季的揭露，但鑑於 1 月完成最終關帳（final close），我們是否應該假設在 3 月季度還會有另一輪追溯費用？

So there's no more catch-up fees to book at this point. The fund had its last fundraising in the -- by 12/31 and that's when they sent the press release out that indicated that we have $22.7 billion of additional AUM. And that's all included in our reported numbers.

目前沒有更多追溯費用需要入帳。該基金在 12/31 前完成了最後一輪募資，並在當時發布新聞稿，指出我們新增了 227 億美元的 AUM。這些都已經包含在我們所報告的數字裡。

And the would BSP's fundraise be in there as of 12/31?

那 BSP 的募資截至 12/31 也會包含在裡面嗎？

No, not yet.

不，還沒有。

The next question comes from Brennan Hawken from UBS.

下一個問題來自 UBS 的 Brennan Hawken。

So you spoke earlier about fixed income and the attractiveness and demand and a shift from cash and short duration investments. What are you specifically seeing as far as RFP activity? And could you talk about Western and their level of engagement with their client base?

你們先前談到固定收益的吸引力與需求，以及資金從現金與短存續期投資轉移。就 RFP（提案徵求）活動而言，你們具體看到了什麼？另外能否談談 Western 與其客戶群互動的投入程度？

Yes. So Brennan, maybe just a little bit of color kind of on the industry everybody talked about the $7.7 trillion in money market funds and what's going to be transferring from cash into other investments. And first of all, Western's money market fund is primarily institutional and institutions tend to build in the first 2 quarters and then spend in the second 2 quarters.

是的。Brennan，我先補充一些產業面的背景：大家都在談貨幣市場基金（money market funds）有 7.7 兆美元，接下來會有多少資金從現金轉到其他投資。首先，Western 的貨幣市場基金主要是機構型，而機構通常在前兩個季度累積資金，然後在後兩個季度支出。

Having said that, and we don't have a meaningful presence in the retail money market business. However, obviously, we have relationships with those distributors, which we do that's where you're going to capture the transition. So even if you don't have the money market funds, it doesn't mean you get the transition. So we've had actually good interest and positive flows in some categories in our fixed income. Unfortunately, it's masked. It's masked a bit by some performance challenges we've had in the core strategies. Over half of our top 10 gross selling funds are in the fixed income space.

話雖如此，而且我們在零售貨幣市場業務上並沒有顯著的布局。不過，很明顯我們與那些通路商（distributors）有合作關係，而你會在那裡捕捉到資金轉移。因此，即使你沒有貨幣市場基金，也不代表你無法承接這波轉移。所以我們在固定收益的某些類別其實出現了不錯的興趣與正向資金流。可惜的是，這被掩蓋了一些——因為我們在核心策略（core strategies）上遇到了一些績效挑戰。我們前 10 大的總銷售基金（gross selling funds）中，超過一半都在固定收益領域。

And actually, from a vehicle standpoint, were positive flows in ETFs and muni ladder SMAs. So it's really important to think about this as being vehicle-agnostic. And our fixed income gross sales are up 8%. We've had the greatest portion of our institutional pipeline is actually fixed income in multisector credit, high-yield, global income and Western, to your question about Western, they represent the largest portion of that.

而且就產品載體（vehicle）而言，ETF 與市政債梯形（muni ladder）SMA 都是正向資金流。所以把這件事視為不受載體限制（vehicle-agnostic）是很重要的。我們的固定收益總銷售額成長了 8%。我們機構端的管線（pipeline）中占比最高的其實是固定收益，涵蓋多元部位信用（multisector credit）、高收益（high-yield）、全球收益（global income）；而就你問到 Western 的部分，他們占了其中最大的一部分。

So Western is having good conversations or clients -- been -- have a lot of very good performing strategies but have struggled, obviously, in their core strategy. Global opportunistic positive in things like tax efficient, global opportunistic, mortgage-backed securities. But I think the most -- and by the way, Putnam brings in really top-performing fixed income performance as well plus additional products and things like stable value, ultrashort duration, intermediate core and really the performance in munis as well.

所以 Western 正在與客戶進行良好的對話——他們有很多表現非常好的策略，但顯然在核心策略上遇到了一些困難。像是全球機會型（global opportunistic）在稅務效率（tax efficient）、全球機會型、以及不動產抵押證券（mortgage-backed securities）等方面都有正向表現。不過我認為最——另外，Putnam 也帶來了非常頂尖的固定收益績效，以及額外的產品，例如穩定價值（stable value）、超短存續期（ultrashort duration）、中期核心（intermediate core），以及在市政債（munis）方面的績效。

So we think cash is still attractive. And frankly, some people would argue the risk reward, you got cash yielding 5% and the same in high yield, yielding 7.5%, that you're not going to see the full rotation until you see some rate cuts as opposed to just peaking. And we just think we're incredibly well positioned, both in public fixed income, traditional fixed income as well as private credit to be able to capture this. And our view is what we're seeing is it demonstrates that we're well positioned there. I don't know, Adam, if you want to add anything?

所以我們認為現金仍然具有吸引力。坦白說，有些人會認為從風險報酬來看，你的現金殖利率有 5%，而高收益債也差不多，殖利率約 7.5%，在你看到一些降息、而不只是利率見頂之前，你不會看到全面的資產輪動。我們認為我們的布局非常到位，無論是在公開市場固定收益、傳統固定收益，還是私募信貸方面，都能夠把握這個機會。而我們的觀點是，我們所看到的情況證明我們在那裡的定位是正確的。Adam，不知道你是否想補充什麼？

Yes. Jenny, I would just add that I think you're spot on that we've really seen strength in a number of areas of fixed income that was masked by some of the outflows in Core and Core Plus. But the performance in Core and Core Plus turned around. If you take a look at the end of the year, Core is up 37 basis points in the index, Core Plus 124. And traditionally, those products get very, very strong inflows after the Fed stops hiking. So we're in the position now from a performance standpoint as well as in the rate cycle, where those products are poised to do quite well.

是的。Jenny，我只想補充，我認為你說得非常到位：我們確實在固定收益的多個領域看到強勁表現，只是被核心（Core）與核心加強（Core Plus）的一些資金流出所掩蓋。但核心與核心加強的績效已經扭轉。如果你看年底的數據，核心指數上漲 37 個基點，核心加強上漲 124 個基點。而傳統上，在聯準會停止升息之後，這些產品會迎來非常、非常強勁的資金流入。因此，從績效表現以及利率循環的角度來看，我們現在所處的位置，使得這些產品很有機會表現得相當不錯。

Great. And then just, Matthew, I wanted to reconfirm because a lot of times when you speak to expenses, you speak to it ex some items, but it sounds like the $4.55 billion and the $4.6 billion for the fiscal quarter would be inclusive of the double rent would also include the expectation -- the actual performance fees from this past quarter plus $50 million expected the next few as well as the 9 months of Putnam. Do I have that correct?

很好。然後，Matthew，我想再確認一下，因為很多時候你在談費用時，會排除某些項目來說，但聽起來本財季的 45.5 億美元到 46 億美元，應該是包含雙重租金（double rent），也會包含上一季的實際績效費用，加上接下來幾季預期的 5,000 萬美元，以及 Putnam 的 9 個月費用。我的理解正確嗎？

That's right. Yes. And just to -- the reason why I went through the detail is because I want to be very clear that if you take Putnam out of the equation, our expenses are up like 1% or something like that year-over-year. And that's only because -- and again, we don't normally talk about revenue on -- from a guide perspective, it's almost impossible to guide, as you know. But that does assume 5% higher revenue. So just if you often people ask us about margin, the relationship between revenue and expenses and leverage and operating leverage in the system -- well you can see that if we expect revenue to go up 5%, we only expect our expenses to go up between 1% and 2% on a foundational level.

沒錯。是的。我之所以把細節講清楚，是因為我想非常明確地說：如果把 Putnam 的影響拿掉，我們的費用年增大概只有 1% 左右。這也只是因為——而且再次強調，我們通常不會從指引角度去談收入，因為如你所知，收入幾乎不可能做指引。但這裡確實假設收入提高 5%。所以如果大家常常問我們關於利潤率、收入與費用之間的關係、槓桿以及系統中的營運槓桿——你可以看到，如果我們預期收入上升 5%，在基礎層面我們只預期費用上升 1% 到 2%。

And then in addition to that, we're adding Putman. But of course, we're in the process of reducing expenses around the Putnam acquisition. That's when you get to all these -- when you put all that together, you get to the $4.55 billion to $4.6 billion. Next year, we expect that to be a further reduction in expenses. I mentioned $375 million for 9 months of expenses for Putnam, we expect on a dollar-for-dollar basis for that to come down for 2025.

此外，我們也把 Putnam 納入其中。但當然，我們正在推進 Putnam 併購相關的費用削減。把這些全部加在一起，就得到 45.5 億美元到 46 億美元的區間。明年，我們預期費用還會進一步下降。我提到 Putnam 9 個月的費用為 3.75 億美元，我們預期在 2025 年這個數字會以一美元對一美元的方式下降。

I said to you that for the year, we expect to actually realize $85 million to $100 million of expenses, expense savings from the Putnam transaction. For a full year, that's $150 million at least in expense savings, and that's what translates into about $150 million to $170 million of operating income addition.

我也跟你說過，就今年而言，我們預期會從 Putnam 交易中實現 8,500 萬到 1 億美元的費用／成本節省。若以全年計算，至少是 1.5 億美元的費用節省，而這會轉化為約 1.5 億到 1.7 億美元的營業利益增量。

Yes. That's -- that $150 million, that's the run rate when you exit your fiscal year basically right?

是的——那 1.5 億美元，是指你在財年結束時的退出（run-rate）水準，基本上對吧？

That's exactly right. Yes. So on the last day, at the very least on the -- I think we could be a little bit better than this. But on the last day, 9/30 when you times that number of savings by the year, it's $150 million at least.

完全正確。是的。所以在最後一天，至少在——我認為我們可能還能做得更好一些——但在最後一天，也就是 9/30，把那個節省金額按全年換算，至少就是 1.5 億美元。

The next question comes from Michael Cyprys from Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利（Morgan Stanley）的 Michael Cyprys。

I wanted to ask about retirement with Putnam and the Great-West strategic relationship, this accelerates your push into the retirement channel. I hope you could talk about some of the steps you're taking and may take over the next 12 months to capture the growth opportunity that you see. Maybe you could elaborate on that as well as which products you think might resonate the most.

我想問關於退休業務：透過 Putnam 以及與 Great-West 的策略合作關係，這加速了你們進軍退休通路。我希望你們能談談未來 12 個月你們正在採取、以及可能會採取的一些步驟，以把握你們所看到的成長機會。也許你們也可以進一步說明哪些產品最可能引起共鳴。

Adam, you want to take that?

Adam，你要回答這題嗎？

Yes. So first of all, the Putnam acquisition gave us capabilities. And I think those capabilities are really important in terms of things like stable value where there's $18 billion in assets, ultrashort and target date. If you take a look at target date, it's a third of industry DC AUM right now, had $150 billion in net flow last year. We can now play in that segment where we haven't really been able to play effectively historically.

好。首先，Putnam 的併購為我們帶來了能力。我認為這些能力非常重要，例如穩定價值（stable value）——那裡有 180 億美元資產——超短期（ultrashort）以及目標日期（target date）。如果你看目標日期，它目前占整個產業 DC（確定提撥）AUM 的三分之一，去年淨流入 1,500 億美元。我們現在可以參與這個細分領域，而過去在歷史上我們其實很難有效參與。

So from a product standpoint, we're in a much stronger position. I would also say that from a sales force position, when we took folks in from Putnam, one of the areas where we added most significantly within that retirement and somewhat in the insurance channel as well. So we just have a much, much larger field force. So that lets us be better partners both of those things, both the expanded field force, the expanded products.

因此，從產品角度來看，我們的定位強很多。我也想說，從銷售團隊的角度，當我們接收 Putnam 的同仁時，我們在退休通路（以及在保險通路某種程度上）的人力增補最為顯著。所以我們的前線團隊規模大了很多、很多。這讓我們能成為更好的合作夥伴——這兩點，也就是擴大的前線團隊與擴充的產品線。

We're better partners with the Power-related companies, but with all of our insurance partners. And I think that's what's really important to mention is this is not just about being stronger with one partner, it's about being stronger in insurance and retirement across the board.

我們不僅能與 Power 相關公司成為更好的合作夥伴，也能與所有保險合作夥伴更緊密合作。我認為這點非常重要：這不只是讓我們對某一個合作夥伴更強，而是讓我們在整體保險與退休領域全面變得更強。

Putnam's DC assets are about 30% of overall AUM. It's just a real strength in bringing that DNA into Franklin will be a real benefit in the relationship with Empower allows us to build some custom products together that we can go to market with that we think will really help us win because we can have multiple sales forces now selling the same products, which just gives us leverage.

Putnam 的 DC 資產約占其整體 AUM 的 30%。把這樣的 DNA 帶進 Franklin，會帶來很大的好處。與 Empower 的合作關係讓我們能一起打造一些客製化產品並推向市場；我們認為這將真正幫助我們贏得業務，因為我們現在可以有多支銷售團隊銷售同樣的產品，這就帶來槓桿效應。

Great. And just a follow-up question on the technology front. Just curious how you're thinking about front to back outsourcing opportunities and evolving the tech stack from here. Maybe you could speak to some of the opportunities that you might see from improving data integration across the multiple systems that you have, what sort of factors go into consideration? And any sort of lessons learned you might take away from others that have partnered externally on this front.

很好。再追問一題關於科技面。想了解你們如何看待前到後台（front to back）的外包機會，以及從現在開始如何演進技術堆疊（tech stack）。也許你們可以談談，透過改善多套系統之間的資料整合，你們看到哪些機會、會考量哪些因素？以及你們從其他在這方面與外部合作的公司身上，有沒有什麼經驗教訓可以借鏡。

Yes. Thanks, Mike, I'll take that and then Jenny, maybe would like to comment. Because we're all very involved in these very critical decisions for the company. So as you know, we outsourced transfer agency, fund administration and parts of that technology, as we've described beforehand. We then moved on to understanding the potential opportunity for effectively partnering with one single provider for our investment technology platform.

好的。謝謝你，Mike，我來回答，然後 Jenny 也許也想補充。因為我們都深度參與這些對公司非常關鍵的決策。如你所知，我們已外包過戶代理（transfer agency）、基金行政管理（fund administration）以及其中部分技術，如我們先前所描述。接著我們進一步評估一個潛在機會：實質上與單一供應商合作，建立我們的投資科技平台。

That's a huge undertaking a process that takes a year, 18 months just to go through all the analysis. What I'd say on this is the #1 point is and most important to us, candidly, is that all of our specialist investment teams are on board with moving to a single investment technology platform. We've done a huge amount of work, and I'd say that we are close to deciding on who that partner should be.

這是一項非常龐大的工程，光是完成所有分析就需要一年到 18 個月。我想說的是，第一點、也是對我們而言最重要的一點，坦白說，是我們所有專業投資團隊都同意轉移到單一投資科技平台。我們做了大量工作，我會說我們已接近決定應該選擇哪一家合作夥伴。

It's going to be a long time to implement. I wish it was faster, but it's slower. It's a very long and complicated process. We're probably going to take something like 3 years to implement. So to give you guide on expense reductions and how it's going to be applied internally is really premature at this stage. But we are encouraged by what we see and what we think we can achieve from this transaction. But candidly, there's so many other demands to invest like artificial intelligence, data, additional teams and resources that they require to be leading in the industry, that while we expect long-term savings to be meaningful over time, we've got a lot of other things to circulate those savings into.

導入會需要很長時間。我希望能更快，但實際上會更慢。這是一個非常漫長且複雜的流程。我們可能需要大約 3 年來完成導入。因此，現在就對你提供費用削減的指引，以及它將如何在內部落地，還為時過早。但我們對所看到的情況、以及我們認為能從這項交易中達成的成果感到鼓舞。不過坦白說，還有很多其他投資需求，例如人工智慧、資料，以及要在產業中保持領先所需的額外團隊與資源；因此，雖然我們預期長期節省會隨時間變得相當可觀，但我們也有很多其他事情需要把這些節省再投入。

But again, we'll share that with you when we're through the process with the partner that we expect to announce here in the coming quarter or 2 or so. So that's sort of the update and whether Jen, do you want to add anything to that?

不過，等我們與預期的合作夥伴完成流程後——我們預計在接下來一到兩個季度左右宣布——我們會再與你分享。所以這就是目前的更新。Jen，你想補充什麼嗎？

No, Matt, that was perfect.

沒有，Matt，你講得很完整。

The next question comes from Patrick Davitt from Autonomous.

下一個問題來自 Autonomous 的 Patrick Davitt。

First, on Putnam, as we try to kind of level set our model expectations. Could you give an update on how the net flow picture tracked from announcement through the December quarter with and without reinvested dividends.

首先，關於 Putnam，當我們試著為模型預期做基準校準時。你能否更新一下，從宣布到 12 月季度期間，淨流量的走勢如何（包含與不包含再投資股利的情況）？

Yes. Excluding reinvested dividends, it's slightly positive. Now obviously, we closed the transaction, as you know, Patrick, on January 1, I'd say, in the quarter before that and the period we're in now, it's kind of flattish, excluding reinvested dividends. So slightly positive.

是的。若不計入再投資股利，略為正成長。當然，如你所知，Patrick，我們在 1 月 1 日完成交易；我會說在那之前的那一季，以及我們現在所處的這段期間，若不計入再投資股利，表現大致持平。所以是略為正成長。

And I'm just going to throw one thing in. I mean Putnam's got 85% of their AUM beating their peers in all time periods. 87% of mutual funds are -- or 91% of mutual funds are rated 4- and 5-star ratings. So both on the equity and fixed income, they've got phenomenal performance.

我再補充一點。Putnam 有 85% 的資產管理規模（AUM）在所有期間都跑贏同業。87% 的共同基金——或是 91% 的共同基金——獲得 4 星與 5 星評等。所以無論是股票或固定收益，他們的績效都非常出色。

Great. And then one housekeeping item. It wasn't clear to me earlier when you were talking about this, but the $5.5 billion-ish win from Great-West announced last week, is that a part of the $25 billion? Or should we consider it incremental?

很好。接著一個例行確認事項。我先前聽你談到這點時不太清楚，但上週 Great-West 公布的大約 55 億美元的贏單，是包含在 250 億美元裡面嗎？還是我們應該把它視為額外增量？

Incremental.

增量。

Yes. I think that's from the -- yes, from the retirement channel. So.

是的。我認為那是來自——是的，來自退休通路。所以。

So it is incremental.

所以它是增量。

Incremental.

增量。

And the next question comes from Brian Bedell from Deutsche Bank.

下一個問題來自德意志銀行（Deutsche Bank）的 Brian Bedell。

Just one clarification also. I think I'm not sure you mentioned this, but the alternative was I think the $5 billion of private markets to play with them correctly, $5 billion of private markets, less about $1 billion of liquid also is that for the quarter just reported or for the current month quarter.

我也再釐清一點。我不確定你是否有提到，但另類投資那邊，我想是大約 50 億美元的私募市場資金可運用，另外也少於約 10 億美元的流動性資產；這是針對剛公布的那一季，還是針對目前這個月／本季？

Well, so BSP -- so they closed their fund in this quarter. And so you don't see those flows in last quarter. So we're talking about in Matt, what was the date that they closed the $4.7 billion.

嗯，所以 BSP——他們是在本季關閉（募集完成）他們的基金。因此你不會在上一季看到那些資金流入。所以我們談的是在——Matt，他們關閉那筆 47 億美元是什麼日期？

Like a week ago...

大概一週前……

This quarter. So -- and just the different BSP charges when they call capital, so they don't have catch-up fees like Lexington does.

在本季。所以——另外，BSP 在資本被實際繳款（call capital）時才收費，因此他們不像 Lexington 那樣有追補費（catch-up fees）。

Yes. Perfect. Okay. That's clear. And then just more broadly, I guess, just the ETF franchise are growing nicely. Maybe Jenny, if you want to -- and Adam also or Matt, just talk a bit about the -- your long-term vision for active semitransparent ETFs, you've already got 12 managers, using these products to $20 billion in the total ETF, which of course, includes a lot of smart beta. But just how you're thinking about this over, say, the next 2 or 3 years the demand from the marketplace for ETFs, but whether you think it might cannibalize mutual funds where you actually think you can develop strategies that will be incrementally growing sales on top of your mutual fund tranches?

是的。很好。好的。這就清楚了。然後更廣泛地說，我想 ETF 業務版圖成長得不錯。也許 Jenny——以及 Adam 或 Matt——可以談談你們對主動式半透明 ETF 的長期願景；你們已經有 12 位經理人使用這些產品，整體 ETF 規模達到 200 億美元，當然其中包含不少智慧 beta。但你們如何看待未來 2 到 3 年市場對 ETF 的需求？以及你們是否認為它可能會侵蝕共同基金；或你們其實認為可以開發一些策略，在你們既有共同基金產品線之上，帶來額外增量的銷售成長？

Yes. So I think the key to think about with ETFs and frankly, SMAs A lot of the growth is driven from the fact that the world has moved more towards fee-based and how distribution fees are paid and things like traditional mutual funds. And then obviously, the tax efficiencies and ETFs. So we view it as our expertise is our investment -- risk-adjusted investment capabilities, risk-adjusted returns. We have a very small passive suite in the ETFs, but we really focus on active management. And we are agnostic to the vehicle in which we deliver that. So we look at the ETF as a vehicle which works really well in certain channels.

是的。我認為談到 ETF，坦白說還有 SMA（分別管理帳戶），關鍵在於：許多成長是因為市場已更偏向以費用為基礎（fee-based）的模式，以及通路費用的支付方式，還有傳統共同基金等相關因素。再加上 ETF 的稅務效率。因此我們的觀點是：我們的專長在於投資——風險調整後的投資能力、風險調整後報酬。我們在 ETF 的被動產品線很小，但我們真正聚焦在主動管理。而且我們對於以何種載體（vehicle）來交付這些能力是中立的。所以我們把 ETF 視為一種在某些通路運作得非常好的載體。

And on the wealth side, you're starting to see more growth internationally in ETFs, more discussions like in places I just came from Asia, where you haven't seen the kind of penetration there, but they're interested in them. And then things like SMAs are also very much growing in the wealth channel. And we look at Canvas as a great way to bring tax optimization to the SMA platform. So that it can be leveraged as a tool to provide tax-efficient active SMAs to the market.

在財富管理端，你開始看到 ETF 在國際市場的成長更快、討論更多；像我剛從亞洲回來，那裡過去的滲透率沒有那麼高，但他們對 ETF 很有興趣。再者，像 SMA 也在財富通路快速成長。我們認為 Canvas 是把稅務最佳化帶到 SMA 平台的一個很好的方式，讓它能作為工具，向市場提供具稅務效率的主動式 SMA。

We've had close to $1 billion in a quarter in flows in the ETFs. I think we're now over $21 billion when we've added Putnam into that and have had really great success diversifying our strategies into these other types of vehicles. So the Franklin Income Fund, now we have the Franklin Income-focused ETF, which has again been really well received in the market since it was launched as well as having traction outside the U.S.

我們單季 ETF 淨流入接近 10 億美元。我想我們把 Putnam 納入後，ETF 規模現在已超過 210 億美元；而且我們在把策略多元化到這些不同載體方面非常成功。因此以 Franklin Income Fund 為例，我們現在也有以 Franklin Income 為主的 ETF，自推出以來在市場上反應非常好，並且在美國以外也開始有進展。

So ETFs are incredibly important to us. Yes, it will probably cannibalize some of the mutual funds. But for -- in our case, where we have been underpenetrated in the areas of retirement, that's actually been an area where the tax benefit of ETFs hasn't made a difference, and you're seeing very strong support from mutual funds to the retirement channel. So as we grow there, we're able to make up for any of that cannibalization in that retirement channel while also growing our ETFs.

所以 ETF 對我們極其重要。是的，它可能會侵蝕一部分共同基金。但就我們而言，我們在退休領域的滲透率一直偏低；而那其實是 ETF 的稅務優勢不太會產生差異的領域，你也看到退休通路對共同基金的支持非常強勁。因此當我們在那裡成長時，我們能在退休通路彌補任何被侵蝕的部分，同時也擴大我們的 ETF。

So Adam, do you want to add anything to that?

Adam，你要補充嗎？

Yes. I would just reiterate the point that, for us, ETFs is about the vehicle, not about being passive, just to put some numbers around that 24% of our assets are smart beta and 36% are active. So our passive ETF business, it's only 40% of our AUM is in passive and it was only 20% -- passive was only 20% of our ETF flow for the quarter. So as more and more people begin to consider active management within an ETF wrapper, we think that's great to us.

是的。我只想重申一點：對我們來說，ETF 講的是載體，而不是被動投資。用一些數字來說明：我們的資產中 24% 是智慧 beta，36% 是主動。也就是說，我們的被動 ETF 業務——只有 40% 的 AUM 在被動；而且本季 ETF 淨流入中，被動只占 20%。因此，當越來越多人開始在 ETF 包裝（wrapper）中考慮主動管理時，我們認為這對我們非常有利。

And to the point about cannibalization, we would also say that direct indexing is the real threat to mutual funds, and that's where we're so thrilled to have Canvas on board to see the growth there to see our ability to actually use Canvas to manage active portfolios now as well. We think that puts us in a very good position.

至於侵蝕的問題，我們也會說，直接索引（direct indexing）才是共同基金真正的威脅；這也是為什麼我們非常高興能把 Canvas 納入，看到那裡的成長，並看到我們也能用 Canvas 來管理主動投資組合。我們認為這讓我們處於非常有利的位置。

And I think that Canvas is is more of a threat to the passive mutual fund that has and passive ETF.

而且我認為 Canvas 對被動共同基金以及被動 ETF 的威脅更大。

We had another question come in to clarify a point around guidance on performance fees. So just to be clear, the $815 million guide that I gave around the fiscal second quarter guidance, includes an assumption of $50 million of performance fees. The annual guide of $4.55 billion to $4.6 billion is excluding performance fees. Just as you know, we always give our annual guide excluding performance fees. I just want to be clear on that. That's fully inclusive of Putnam. It includes the double rent, but it excludes performance fees.

我們又收到一個問題，想釐清關於績效費（performance fees）指引的說法。所以為了清楚起見：我先前給的會計年度第二季指引中，815 百萬美元的指引包含了 50 百萬美元的績效費假設。年度指引 45.5 億至 46 億美元是不包含績效費的。你也知道，我們一向提供不含績效費的年度指引。我只是想把這點說清楚。這已完整納入 Putnam；包含雙重租金（double rent），但不包含績效費。

Thank you. This concludes today's Q&A session. I would now like to hand the call back over to Jenny Johnson, Franklin's President and CEO for final comments.

謝謝。今天的問答環節到此結束。接下來我想把電話交回給 Franklin 總裁兼執行長 Jenny Johnson 作最後結語。

Great. Well, thank you, everybody, for participating in today's call. And once again, I just want to thank our employees for their hard work and dedication to be able to deliver this quarter. And we look forward to speaking to you all again next quarter. Thanks, everybody.

很好。謝謝各位參與今天的電話會議。再次，我想感謝我們的員工，他們的辛勤工作與投入，讓我們能交出本季的成果。我們期待在下個季度再次與各位交流。謝謝大家。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以掛線。