富蘭克林資源 (BEN) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Welcome to Franklin Resources earnings conference call for the quarter ended March 31, 2023. Hello. My name is Lara, and I will be your call operator today. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Selene Oh, Head of Investor Relations for Franklin Resources. You may begin.

早上好。歡迎來到富蘭克林資源公司截至 2023 年 3 月 31 日止季度的收益電話會議。大家好。我叫 Lara，今天我將是您的接線員。提醒一下，這次會議正在錄製中。 （操作員說明）我現在想將會議轉交給您的主持人 Selene Oh，富蘭克林資源公司投資者關係主管。你可以開始了。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today to discuss our quarterly results.

早上好，感謝您今天加入我們討論我們的季度業績。

Statements made on this conference call regarding Franklin Resources, Inc., which are not historical facts or forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements involve a number of known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from any future results expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. These and other risks, uncertainties and other important factors are just described in more detail in Franklin's recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including in the Risk Factors and the MD&A sections of Franklin's most recent Form 10-K and 10-Q filings.

在本次電話會議上發表的有關富蘭克林資源公司的聲明，這些聲明不是歷史事實或 1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案意義上的前瞻性聲明。這些前瞻性聲明涉及許多已知和未知的風險，可能導致實際結果與此類前瞻性陳述明示或暗示的任何未來結果存在重大差異的不確定性和其他重要因素。這些和其他風險、不確定性和其他重要因素在富蘭克林最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中有更詳細的描述，包括富蘭克林最近提交的 10-K 和 10-Q 表格的風險因素和 MD&A 部分。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Jenny Johnson, our President and Chief Executive Officer.

現在我想把電話轉給我們的總裁兼首席執行官珍妮約翰遜。

Thank you, Selene. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss Franklin Templeton's results for the second fiscal quarter of 2023. As usual, I'm joined by Matt Nicholls, our CFO and COO; and Adam Spector, our Head of Global Distribution.

謝謝你，賽琳娜。大家好，感謝你們今天加入我們討論富蘭克林鄧普頓 2023 年第二財季的業績。像往常一樣，我們的首席財務官兼首席運營官 Matt Nicholls 也加入了我的行列；和我們的全球分銷主管 Adam Spector。

Despite a difficult market backdrop exacerbated by stress in the regional banking sector, we continue to see positive momentum across our business in terms of long-term flow trends, relative investment performance, diversification by product and vehicle and financial results. Market dislocations often result in investment opportunities for skilled active investors. And in this regard, our investment performance continued to improve across asset classes. This quarter, 3 of our 4 asset classes: fixed income, multi-asset and alternatives, generated positive net flows. We also saw continued progress in ETFs and Canvas, our custom indexing solution platform.

儘管區域銀行業的壓力加劇了艱難的市場背景，但我們在長期流量趨勢、相對投資業績、產品和工具的多元化以及財務業績方面繼續看到我們業務的積極勢頭。市場錯位通常會為熟練的活躍投資者帶來投資機會。在這方面，我們的投資業績在各個資產類別中持續改善。本季度，我們 4 個資產類別中的 3 個：固定收益、多元資產和另類資產產生了正淨流量。我們還看到了 ETF 和我們的定制索引解決方案平台 Canvas 的持續進步。

Flow trends improved across all geographies with our Asia Pacific region reporting positive long-term net flows in the quarter. Furthermore, this prolonged period of heightened market volatility affirms the importance of the investments we've made to diversify our business and better serve our clients, all in an effort to offer more choice and help them achieve long-term financial goals no matter where we are in the economic cycle.

所有地區的流量趨勢均有所改善，我們的亞太地區報告本季度長期淨流量為正。此外，這段長時間的市場波動加劇證實了我們為實現業務多元化和更好地為客戶服務所做的投資的重要性，所有這些都是為了提供更多選擇並幫助他們實現長期財務目標，無論我們在哪裡處於經濟周期。

As to the specific numbers, starting first with flows, long-term net outflows improved from the prior quarter to $3.7 billion compared to net outflows of $10.9 billion in the prior quarter. Importantly, as mentioned, fixed income, multi-asset and alternatives all generated positive net flows. Fixed income generated net inflows of $1.8 billion. And as we've said on previous calls, we continue to benefit from our broad range of fixed income strategies with non-correlated investment philosophies and that trend continued this quarter. Client interest continued in U.S. taxable corporate, municipal and global opportunistic strategies, which were all net flow positive.

至於具體數字，首先從流量開始，長期淨流出較上一季度增加至 37 億美元，而上一季度為淨流出 109 億美元。重要的是，如前所述，固定收益、多元資產和替代品都產生了正淨流量。固定收益產生 18 億美元的淨流入。正如我們在之前的電話會議上所說，我們繼續受益於我們廣泛的固定收益策略和不相關的投資理念，這種趨勢在本季度仍在繼續。客戶對美國應稅公司、市政和全球機會主義策略的興趣持續存在，這些策略都是淨流量為正的。

Multi-asset net inflows were $1.5 billion, driven by Franklin Income Fund, Fiduciary Trust International's high net worth business and Canvas. Canvas has achieved net inflows each quarter since the platform launched in September 2019 and AUM increased over 13% in the quarter. Alternative net inflows were $1.3 billion, driven by growth into private market strategies, which were partially offset by outflows in liquid alternative strategies.

受 Franklin Income Fund、Fiduciary Trust International 的高淨值業務和 Canvas 的推動，多資產淨流入 15 億美元。自該平台於 2019 年 9 月推出以來，Canvas 每個季度都實現了淨流入，本季度 AUM 增長超過 13%。另類投資淨流入為 13 億美元，受私募市場策略增長的推動，部分被流動性另類投資策略的流出所抵消。

Benefit Street Partners, Clarion Partners and Lexington Partners each had net inflows with a combined total of $1.5 billion. Equity net outflows were $8.3 billion, reflecting continued risk-off sentiment for many investors, but we did see positive net flows into ETFs, Global equity and Small Cap Growth equity strategies. ETFs had net inflows of $1 billion and now total approximately $15 billion in AUM. In this quarter, we launched a variant of our flagship Franklin Income Fund in a multi-asset active ETF vehicle.

Benefit Street Partners、Clarion Partners 和 Lexington Partners 各有淨流入，總計 15 億美元。股票淨流出 83 億美元，反映出許多投資者持續的避險情緒，但我們確實看到正淨流入 ETF、全球股票和小型股增長股票策略。 ETF 的淨流入為 10 億美元，目前 AUM 總額約為 150 億美元。本季度，我們在多資產主動型 ETF 工具中推出了旗艦富蘭克林收益基金的變體。

Cash management, which is excluded from long-term AUM and flows had net outflows of $4.3 billion in the quarter and included episodic redemptions of approximately $7.5 billion from a sweep program associated with the regional bank.

現金管理不包括在長期資產管理規模和流量中，本季度淨流出 43 億美元，其中包括與地區銀行相關的清倉計劃中的約 75 億美元的間歇性贖回。

Our regionally focused sales model has continued to gain traction, and this quarter, we experienced improving flow trends across all geographies. I already mentioned the positive long-term net flows in the Asia Pacific region, which were driven by Australia, Korea and Japan. Our one, but not funded, institutional pipeline was $15.4 billion and reflected the previously disclosed funding of a $7.5 billion institutional fixed income mandate. Given the uncertain market environment, institutional investors continue to be more defensive with a focus on diversification and liquidity. This resulted in less money in motion, particularly in March.

我們以區域為中心的銷售模式繼續受到關注，本季度，我們在所有地區都經歷了流量趨勢的改善。我已經提到了由澳大利亞、韓國和日本推動的亞太地區的正長期淨流量。我們的一項（但未獲得資金）機構管道為 154 億美元，反映了之前披露的 75 億美元機構固定收益任務的資金。鑑於市場環境不明朗，機構投資者繼續更具防禦性，重點關注多元化和流動性。這導致流動資金減少，尤其是在 3 月份。

Turning now to investment performance. In this environment, in particular, it's encouraging to see that the sound long-term investment thesis of many of our largest strategies are playing out and performance generally improved across all time periods. This quarter, 64%, 63%, 61% and 66% of our strategy composite AUM outperformed their respective benchmarks on a 1-, 3-, 5- and 10-year basis. The 1-year period improved primarily due to certain ClearBridge and Franklin Mutual Series equity strategies. Additionally, we're seeing improvement in the longer-term performance of Western Asset's U.S. taxable fixed income strategies.

現在轉向投資業績。在這種環境下，尤其令人鼓舞的是，我們許多最大戰略的良好長期投資論點正在發揮作用，而且所有時期的業績普遍都有所改善。本季度，我們戰略綜合 AUM 的 64%、63%、61% 和 66% 在 1 年、3 年、5 年和 10 年的基礎上跑贏了各自的基準。 1 年期間的改善主要歸功於某些 ClearBridge 和 Franklin Mutual Series 股票策略。此外，我們看到西部資產美國應稅固定收益策略的長期表現有所改善。

On the mutual fund side, 67%, 53%, 63%, and 56% of our AUM outperformed their peers on a 1-, 3-, 5- and 10-year basis. Equity-related products are leading the increase in relative performance. For the 1-year period, specifically, ClearBridge, Templeton Global Equity Group and Franklin Equity Group outperformed in March. In addition, half of mutual fund AUM was in funds rated 4 or 5 star by Morningstar.

在共同基金方面，67%、53%、63% 和 56% 的資產管理規模在 1、3、5 和 10 年的基礎上優於同行。股票相關產品引領相對業績的增長。就 1 年期間而言，具體而言，ClearBridge、Templeton Global Equity Group 和 Franklin Equity Group 在 3 月份的表現優於大市。此外，共同基金 AUM 的一半屬於晨星評級為 4 星或 5 星的基金。

As I mentioned earlier, over the past several years, we have further diversified our business, and we believe our broad range of investment philosophies and processes differentiate our specialist investment managers from each other and gives us an ability to build the best outcomes for our clients. In March, we proactively engaged with clients to help them navigate financial uncertainty created by stress in the regional banking sector. The Franklin Templeton Institute provided timely updates to our clients through webinars, articles and video posts.

正如我之前提到的，在過去的幾年裡，我們進一步多元化了我們的業務，我們相信我們廣泛的投資理念和流程使我們的專業投資經理彼此區分開來，並使我們能夠為我們的客戶創造最好的結果. 3 月，我們主動與客戶接洽，幫助他們應對區域銀行業壓力造成的金融不確定性。富蘭克林鄧普頓研究所通過網絡研討會、文章和視頻帖子為我們的客戶提供及時更新。

Clients were particularly interested in the numerous panels comprised of our specialist investment managers who offered investment perspectives across asset classes, including venture capital, alternative credit and traditional fixed income. We continue to see client demand in fixed income, income-oriented and dividend-yielding products. In addition, as a result of recent market dislocations, alternative capabilities such as secondary private equity, private credit and real estate continue to be of client interest.

客戶對由我們的專業投資經理組成的眾多小組特別感興趣，他們提供跨資產類別的投資觀點，包括風險投資、另類信貸和傳統固定收益。我們繼續看到客戶對固定收益、收益導向和股息收益產品的需求。此外，由於最近的市場混亂，二級私募股權、私人信貸和房地產等替代能力繼續引起客戶的興趣。

Touching briefly on our financial results, ending AUM was $1.42 trillion, an increase of 2.5% from the prior quarter, primarily due to market appreciation and average AUM increased 5% to $1.4 trillion from the prior quarter. While this quarter's adjusted effective fee rate was in line with prior quarter at 39 basis points, adjusted operating revenues of $1.5 billion increased 6% from the prior quarter driven by higher adjusted performance fees and average AUM, partially offset by 2 fewer calendar days. Adjusted operating income was $440.2 million, an 11% increase from the prior quarter, and our adjusted operating margin increased to 28.9% compared to 27.5% in the prior quarter.

簡要談談我們的財務業績，期末 AUM 為 1.42 萬億美元，比上一季度增長 2.5%，這主要是由於市場升值，平均 AUM 比上一季度增長 5% 至 1.4 萬億美元。雖然本季度調整後的有效費用率與上一季度一致，為 39 個基點，但調整後的營業收入為 15 億美元，比上一季度增長 6%，這主要是由於調整後的業績費用和平均資產管理規模增加，部分被減少 2 個日曆日所抵消。調整後的營業收入為 4.402 億美元，比上一季度增長 11%，調整後的營業利潤率從上一季度的 27.5% 增至 28.9%。

We continue to maintain a strong balance sheet with total cash and investments of $6.8 billion.

我們繼續保持強勁的資產負債表，現金和投資總額為 68 億美元。

Let me wrap up by summarizing that we continue to benefit from our diversified business, our flows and relative investment performance have been steadily improving, and our balance sheet affords us flexibility, including the ability to further expand our capabilities. Our focus remains on delivering better outcomes for our clients. And finally, my admiration and thanks go to the thousands of employees around the globe who represent Franklin Templeton so well. Now let's turn over to your questions. Operator?

讓我總結一下，我們繼續受益於我們的多元化業務，我們的流量和相關投資業績一直在穩步改善，我們的資產負債表為我們提供了靈活性，包括進一步擴展我們能力的能力。我們的重點仍然是為我們的客戶提供更好的結果。最後，我要感謝全球數以千計的員工，他們如此出色地代表了富蘭克林鄧普頓。現在讓我們轉向你的問題。操作員？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Your first question comes from the line of Bill Katz from Credit Suisse.

你的第一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Bill Katz。

I appreciate all the extra color in the supplement. Maybe, Jenny, one for you. You sort of mentioned that in your prepared comments and also in the press release that you're sort of positioned to take advantage of some structural growth. I was wondering if you could break that down between, maybe, organic opportunities where you sort of see the best incremental flows from here and maybe where things are on the inorganic side?

我很欣賞增刊中所有額外的顏色。也許，珍妮，給你一個。你在準備好的評論和新聞稿中提到，你已經準備好利用一些結構性增長。我想知道您是否可以將其分解為有機機會，在有機機會中您可以從這裡看到最好的增量流量，也許在無機方面？

Yes. So I mean, I think that from the organic side, all flows aren't created equal, right? So anything in the alternatives, which continues to be positive for us, tends to have much higher fee rate and margin. And we think we have absolutely outstanding managers in that space and have continued to see positive flows there. Fixed income today, 6 out of our 10 top growth strategies or fixed income, 3 of those are Western. So while Western has had some performance challenges, they're -- actually, their 6-month numbers are top decile and they're now very strong. I think 1 is in 3 and 5 and 1 is in 3, 5 and 10 in Core Bond and Core Bond Plus. We think there's a secular trend with things like SMA and Canvas, we think, is the best technology out there we've now launched, not only are we consistently gaining flows on the direct indexing side, but we've actually launched some -- or seeded some active strategies leveraging the Canvas platform.

是的。所以我的意思是，我認為從有機的角度來看，所有的流量都不是平等的，對吧？因此，替代品中的任何東西，如果繼續對我們有利，往往會有更高的費率和保證金。而且我們認為我們在該領域擁有絕對出色的經理，並且繼續看到那裡的積極流動。今天的固定收益，我們 10 大增長策略或固定收益中有 6 種，其中 3 種來自西方。因此，雖然西方在績效方面遇到了一些挑戰，但實際上，他們 6 個月的數字是最高的十分之一，而且他們現在非常強大。我認為 1 在 3 和 5 中，1 在 Core Bond 和 Core Bond Plus 中的 3、5 和 10 中。我們認為像 SMA 和 Canvas 這樣的東西有一個長期趨勢，我們認為，這是我們現在推出的最好的技術，我們不僅在直接索引方面不斷獲得流量，而且我們實際上推出了一些 -或利用 Canvas 平台播種一些積極的策略。

So you can imagine you take some of your traditional mutual fund type strategies and be able to launch them with tax efficiency, leveraging the Canvas technology. And then I'd say on the ETFs we -- I've been waiting for the hockey stick. I'm hopeful that we're getting there, the $1 billion inflows, it's a strong organic growth rate. The largest percentage of our ETFs is actually active. I think that's about 40% of our ETFs. The flows this quarter were primarily smart beta and passive, but almost 900 -- or over $900 million of that came from the U.S. RIA channel, which is a pretty new channel for us. So we think we're just starting to tap into that space. And then I would say, multi-asset solutions. We've gained some big wins there that are coming in actually in this current quarter, and we think that there's going to be continued opportunities.

因此，您可以想像您採用了一些傳統的共同基金類型策略，並能夠利用 Canvas 技術以節稅的方式啟動它們。然後我會在 ETF 上說我們——我一直在等待曲棍球棒。我希望我們能到達那裡，10 億美元的流入，這是一個強勁的有機增長率。我們最大比例的 ETF 實際上是活躍的。我認為這大約占我們 ETF 的 40%。本季度的流量主要是 smart beta 和 passive，但近 900 筆 - 或超過 9 億美元來自美國 RIA 渠道，這對我們來說是一個相當新的渠道。所以我們認為我們才剛剛開始進入這個領域。然後我會說，多資產解決方案。我們在那裡取得了一些重大勝利，這些勝利實際上是在本季度取得的，我們認為將會有持續的機會。

So I think that gives you kind of a picture on the organic side. What we've always said on the M&A side is, look, we're going to focus on areas where we have product gaps from alt space. The only place that we think we'd have a real big product gap is infrastructure, but they're hard to buy and very expensive and that anything else on the traditional side would have to include strong distribution capabilities. We're looking to continue to expand distribution. Obviously, the place everybody loves is retirement because retirement is consistent flows. And honestly, it's the best place for mutual funds today. So anything we do there would have to have some sort of distribution capability.

所以我認為這給了你一種有機方面的畫面。我們在併購方面一直說的是，看，我們將專注於我們與替代空間存在產品差距的領域。我們認為我們真正存在巨大產品差距的唯一地方是基礎設施，但它們很難購買而且非常昂貴，而且傳統方面的任何其他東西都必須包括強大的分銷能力。我們希望繼續擴大分銷。顯然，每個人都喜歡的地方是退休，因為退休是一致的。老實說，這是當今共同基金的最佳去處。因此，我們在那裡所做的任何事情都必須具有某種分發能力。

And then finally, I mentioned that we've always been a buyer of local asset management because any country that you go into, 80% of flows tend to go to local assets. So we always keep our eyes open, particularly in fast-growing countries.

最後，我提到我們一直是本地資產管理的買家，因為你進入的任何國家，80% 的流量都傾向於本地資產。因此，我們始終保持警惕，尤其是在快速發展的國家。

And just to add, Bill, to what Jenny just mentioned, I think we should make clear that our #1 priority is organic growth, as Jenny just mentioned, all those things. But in certain situations, it simply takes either too long or is frankly impossible, to become a leader in an investment category via organic growth. And that's why we've done what we've done with Lexington, BSP, Alcentra, Clarion and Canvas, and there's obviously others in there. But that's the reason why we've done the M&A that we've done, we concluded it's just too hard to get there maybe even impossible, frankly, on an organic level.

比爾，對於珍妮剛才提到的內容，我想我們應該明確指出，我們的第一要務是有機增長，正如珍妮剛才提到的那樣，所有這些事情。但在某些情況下，要通過有機增長成為投資類別的領導者，要么需要太長時間，要么坦率地說是不可能的。這就是為什麼我們已經完成了對 Lexington、BSP、Alcentra、Clarion 和 Canvas 所做的事情，而且顯然還有其他公司。但這就是我們完成併購的原因，我們得出的結論是，坦率地說，在有機層面上實現目標太難了，甚至可能是不可能的。

That's helpful, Matt. And just maybe one for you as a follow-up. Last quarter, you kind of gave some guidance on both performance fees and expenses and a fair amount of variability on what actually layered through. So I was wondering if you could maybe unpack the big performance for this quarter and then how you sort of see some of the expense lines into the new quarter?

這很有幫助，馬特。也許只有一個給你作為後續行動。上個季度，您提供了一些關於績效費用和支出的指導，以及實際分層的相當多的可變性。所以我想知道您是否可以解開本季度的出色表現，然後您如何看待新季度的一些費用線？

Matt, do you want to take that?

馬特，你想接受嗎？

Yes, I'll take that, Jenny. So firstly, on the expenses relative to the guide that we gave last quarter, as hopefully you saw from a G&A occupancy in IS&T, we're very much in line also EFR was slightly higher so that was in line. It really came down to comp and benefits being about $50 million higher than we had guided, and that's driven by 3 key things. Fortunately, all of these were driven mostly by better performance. So 1 was $30 million increase in performance fee compensation; two, about $10 million was higher resets to 401(k) plan, other sort of seasonal compensation related matters; and then another $10 million was just a formulaic approach we have to compensation of which performance of funds are a very important aspect of that formula. So that increased by $10 million.

是的，我會接受的，珍妮。因此，首先，關於與我們上個季度提供的指南相關的費用，正如您希望從 IS&T 的 G&A 佔用率中看到的那樣，我們非常符合 EFR 略高的要求，因此符合要求。這真的歸結為薪酬和福利比我們指導的高出約 5000 萬美元，這是由 3 個關鍵因素驅動的。幸運的是，所有這些主要是由更好的性能驅動的。所以 1 是增加 3000 萬美元的績效費補償；第二，大約 1000 萬美元重置為 401(k) 計劃，其他類型的季節性補償相關事宜；然後另外 1000 萬美元只是一種公式化方法，我們必須補償哪些基金的績效是該公式的一個非常重要的方面。因此增加了 1000 萬美元。

That basically explains the difference between where we guided versus where we came out. In terms of where we expect next quarter, we continue to guide the effective fee rate around 39 basis points. So consistent with this quarter. Excluding performance fees, just to be clear, from a comp and benefits perspective, assuming we have a performance fee quarter of $50 million, which will continue to be our guide on performance fees, we'd expect comp and benefits to be at [725] area. IS&T we'd expect to remain approximately flat at around $120 million, occupancy in the high 50s, again, approximately flat in G&A, probably in the mid-140s, down from the mid-high 40 guide that we gave last quarter and that does include an assumption of continued higher T&E and slightly higher placement fees.

這基本上解釋了我們指導的地方和我們出來的地方之間的區別。就我們對下個季度的預期而言，我們繼續將有效費率引導至 39 個基點左右。與本季度如此一致。不包括績效費用，只是要明確，從補償和福利的角度來看，假設我們有 5000 萬美元的績效費用季度，這將繼續作為我們對績效費用的指導，我們預計補償和福利將達到 [725 ] 區域。我們預計 IS&T 將大致持平在 1.2 億美元左右，入住率在 50 多歲左右，同樣，G&A 大致持平，可能在 140 多歲左右，低於我們上個季度給出的 40 多歲的中高指南，這確實包括 T&E 持續走高和安置費用略高的假設。

In terms of just performance fees, I know we get this question and it's very hard to guide on performance fees, as we've talked about in previous quarters. Given the strong performance in applicable funds, we expect to continue earning performance fees and that to be quite consistent, but we're going to keep our guide of $50 million. There are, obviously, episodic characteristics with performance fees related to both time of investment and redemption activity.

就績效費用而言，我知道我們遇到了這個問題，而且很難就績效費用提供指導，正如我們在前幾個季度所討論的那樣。鑑於適用基金的強勁表現，我們預計將繼續賺取業績費，而且這種情況會非常穩定，但我們將保持 5000 萬美元的指導價。顯然，績效費用具有與投資時間和贖回活動相關的偶發性特徵。

In this quarter, for example, we just had another group of customers that hit the 5-year performance threshold that triggered the performance fee and increased performance fee out of Clarion for this quarter, which meant that we came in higher than we had anticipated, but that's how we've guided on performance fees.

例如，在本季度，我們剛剛有另一組客戶達到 5 年績效門檻，觸發了本季度 Clarion 的績效費和增加的績效費，這意味著我們的收入高於預期，但這就是我們指導績效費用的方式。

Your next question comes from the line of Michael Cyprys from Morgan Stanley.

你的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Michael Cyprys。

I wanted to just circle back to the OnChain money fund announcement that we saw recently. I was hoping you could talk a little bit about your vision there, the opportunity set that you see with this OnChain money fund product? And how you might think about broadening out distribution over time beyond the Benji app to distribute more broadly than that? And I guess, do you also view this as a replacement for stable clients? Just curious how you think about that.

我想回到我們最近看到的 OnChain 貨幣基金公告。我希望你能談談你的願景，你看到這個 OnChain 貨幣基金產品的機會集？你會如何考慮隨著時間的推移擴大 Benji 應用程序之外的分發範圍，以使其分發範圍更廣？我想，您是否也將其視為穩定客戶的替代品？只是好奇你是怎麼想的。

Okay. So a couple of things. So our OnChain money fund, we worked with the SEC -- gosh, it's been a few years now since we started -- a couple of year process. Ultimately, we built a transfer agency system as well as hot and cold storage wallet to support the OnChain money market fund. We -- with everything that happened in the regional banking sector, we actually have started to get some flows there as some of these Dow's or platforms -- the blockchain platforms, we're interested in and needed to move money away from, say, Silicon Valley Bank and other places, and then felt that we sort of consistently -- philosophically, they like the idea of doing the blockchain money market fund. Our big announcement this week is that we added what's called cross chain.

好的。所以有幾件事。所以我們的 OnChain 貨幣基金，我們與美國證券交易委員會合作 - 天哪，自我們開始以來已經有幾年了 - 幾年的過程。最終，我們構建了一個轉賬代理系統以及冷熱存儲錢包來支持 OnChain 貨幣市場基金。我們 - 隨著區域銀行業發生的一切，我們實際上已經開始在那裡獲得一些流量，因為其中一些道指或平台 - 區塊鏈平台，我們感興趣並且需要將資金從，比如說，矽谷銀行和其他地方，然後覺得我們有點一致——從哲學上講，他們喜歡做區塊鏈貨幣市場基金的想法。我們本週的重大公告是我們添加了所謂的跨鏈。

So for those who don't know much about the crypto space, Think about your iPhone and your Android, iOS. They don't -- the applications don't tend to talk to each other. You have the same problem in the blockchain space. And so when we added Polygon to it, that's a layer 2 over Ethereum.

所以對於那些不太了解加密空間的人來說，想想你的 iPhone 和你的 Android、iOS。他們不會——應用程序不會相互交談。你在區塊鏈領域也有同樣的問題。因此，當我們向其中添加 Polygon 時，它就是以太坊之上的第 2 層。

So that meant businesses that built on the Polygon, which is a lot, now have access to our money market funds. So we're sort of initially positioning it in that space, although we think over time, there's a lot of efficiencies in back office that will come out of blockchain. And we absolutely can see adding other products as well as a global Benji product.

因此，這意味著建立在 Polygon 上的企業現在可以使用我們的貨幣市場基金。所以我們最初將它定位在那個領域，儘管我們認為隨著時間的推移，區塊鏈會帶來很多後台效率。我們絕對可以看到添加其他產品以及全球 Benji 產品。

And just as a follow-up question. It sounds like the overall fee rate guidance, pretty stable, has been stable for a bit. But just big picture, maybe you could talk a little bit about your overall multiyear outlook for pricing across products on your platform. If you look back over the past couple of years, where would you say pricing has moved the most versus maybe what's held in? What surprised you as you look back? And as you look forward, where do you anticipate the most stable versus more movement in pricing as you look out over the next couple of years?

就像後續問題一樣。聽起來整體費率指導非常穩定，已經穩定了一段時間。但總的來說，也許你可以談談你平台上跨產品定價的整體多年展望。如果您回顧過去幾年，您認為價格變化最大的地方是什麼？當你回頭看時，是什麼讓你感到驚訝？展望未來，您認為未來幾年價格變化最穩定還是變化最大？

Adam, do you want to take that because you're seeing it on the distribution side?

亞當，你想接受它是因為你在分銷方面看到了它嗎？

Sure. So I think where we've seen the pricing move the most is in the traditional large asset classes, fixed income, equity, especially U.S. and fixed income. Those have ground down to a point. But I think they've hopefully hit a bottom here. We also see mandates coming in generally at larger sizes, which has obviously a significant impact on fees. And as we see consolidation in the industry, among players, that's impacting things. We think that when our fee rate moves, it tends to be a factor of asset mix as opposed to fee degradation really because we're really able to earn significantly more on our alternative assets. And when you see the rates move around, that's less our rates degrading and more a shift in the mix.

當然。所以我認為我們看到定價變動最大的地方是傳統的大型資產類別、固定收益、股票，尤其是美國和固定收益。這些已經到了一定程度。但我認為他們很有希望在這裡觸底。我們還看到委託通常規模較大，這顯然對費用有重大影響。正如我們所看到的行業整合、參與者之間的整合，這正在影響事物。我們認為，當我們的費用率發生變化時，它往往是資產組合的一個因素，而不是費用下降，因為我們真的能夠從我們的替代資產上賺取更多的錢。當您看到利率四處走動時，這不是我們的利率下降，而是結構的轉變。

But Mike, just longer term, just to add to that, though, what we would expect, and this has been part of our strategy, as you know, is to try and mitigate the -- any pressure we have in the traditional asset management space around fees and winning, hopefully, larger mandates that have lower fees in traditional asset management space to supplement that with a growing alternative asset base that tends to be characterized with higher performance fees. So far, that strategy has been playing out quite well for us in the sense of our overall effective fee rates stayed relatively stable and even to the upside.

但是邁克，從長遠來看，只是為了補充這一點，不過，我們所期望的，正如你所知，這一直是我們戰略的一部分，就是試圖減輕——我們在傳統資產管理中面臨的任何壓力圍繞費用的空間，並希望贏得更大的任務，這些任務在傳統資產管理空間中費用較低，以補充不斷增長的另類資產基礎，而另類資產基礎往往以更高的績效費用為特徵。到目前為止，從我們的整體有效費率保持相對穩定甚至上升的意義上來說，該策略對我們來說效果很好。

And if we continue with the strategy that we have, adding where we expect winning certain mandates where we expect from the traditional side, we do have a chance over the next several years far to creep up. But again, as you know, it's highly dependent on what happens in the equity markets, in particular, were as Adam just mentioned, it's all about mix of the equity markets go higher and we continue on the path that we're on around building our alternative asset business. And if that's higher and broader fixed income is a little bit lower, for example, it stays flat, then the fee rate will be higher. If it's the other way around, the fee rate will likely be a little bit lower. But again, we've got good hedges in the system for that, that designed to keep the effective fee rate as stable as possible.

如果我們繼續我們現有的戰略，在我們期望從傳統方面贏得某些授權的地方增加我們期望的地方，我們確實有機會在未來幾年內爬升。但同樣，正如你所知，這在很大程度上取決於股票市場發生的事情，特別是正如亞當剛才提到的那樣，這一切都是關於股票市場走高的組合，我們將繼續沿著我們正在建設的道路前進我們的另類資產業務。如果更高，更廣泛的固定收益稍微低一點，例如，它保持不變，那麼費率就會更高。如果反過來，費率可能會低一點。但同樣，我們在系統中有很好的對沖，旨在盡可能保持有效費率穩定。

I mean -- and I would -- there's $16.5 trillion in the fixed income space. Finally, people can allocate to fixed income and actually get a return. You could have 1/3 of your pension fund in fixed income and still hit your 7% target. So honestly, we hope we see a lot more flows there. We've had some hiccups in performance, but that's working its way out. And so we'd love to see a lot bigger flows in the fixed income, which could affect it. We just happen to have a great offset with both a strong active equity franchise and the alternatives that we're doing.

我的意思是——我願意——固定收益領域有 16.5 萬億美元。最後，人們可以分配給固定收益並實際獲得回報。您可以將 1/3 的養老基金用於固定收益，但仍能達到 7% 的目標。老實說，我們希望在那裡看到更多的流量。我們在性能方面遇到了一些小問題，但正在解決。因此，我們希望看到更多的固定收益流量，這可能會影響它。我們恰好與強大的主動股權特許經營權和我們正在做的替代方案有很大的抵消。

Your next question comes from the line of Dan Fannon from Jefferies.

你的下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Dan Fannon。

So wanted to follow up on just the alternatives outlook. Specifically, a clarification on Clarion. I think that you said the 5-year lockup for performance fees. So wondering if that -- so that was not a redemption, which we saw last year, which triggered a performance fees. I just want to clarify that. And then just talk about the ins and outs at Clarion today and how you see that prospectively looking and then also maybe more broadly within the context of BSP and Lexington, I know you can't talk specifically about the funds in the market, but generally just demand and the fundraising outlook.

所以想跟進替代方案的前景。具體來說，是對 Clarion 的澄清。我想你說的是績效費用的 5 年鎖定期。所以想知道這是否 - 這不是我們去年看到的贖回，這引發了績效費用。我只想澄清一下。然後談談今天 Clarion 的來龍去脈，以及你如何看待前瞻性的，然後在 BSP 和 Lexington 的背景下可能更廣泛地看待，我知道你不能具體談論市場上的基金，但總的來說公正的需求和籌款前景。

So I'll start. And Adam, you and Matt can add. So with Clarion, the bulk of the performance fees were actually their normal process of when you -- when clients hit a 5-year window, you then monetize the performance fee. And so that -- the bulk of that was that as opposed to just redemptions from clients. They have gone from an internal queue to now a redemption queue. Clarion is different in that they are not required to redeem like others, maybe required 5% a quarter, Clarion has a choice because there and the institutional clients prefer this, they weigh the client's liquidity versus making sure that they're preserving value in the fund. And so they meet about 10% of the redemption queue, which I think is annually, it's 5% to 6% of the NAV. It's important to remember that Clarion has very little exposure to office, which has been the biggest area of pressure in the real estate space.

所以我會開始。亞當，你和馬特可以補充。因此，對於 Clarion，大部分績效費用實際上是他們的正常流程，當您 - 當客戶達到 5 年窗口時，您然後將績效費用貨幣化。因此——其中大部分是與客戶的贖回相對的。他們已經從內部隊列變成了現在的贖回隊列。 Clarion 的不同之處在於他們不需要像其他人一樣贖回，可能需要每季度 5%，Clarion 有一個選擇，因為機構客戶更喜歡這個，他們權衡客戶的流動性與確保他們在基金。因此，他們遇到了大約 10% 的贖回隊列，我認為這是每年，它是資產淨值的 5% 到 6%。重要的是要記住，Clarion 很少接觸辦公室，這一直是房地產領域壓力最大的領域。

And they have been big in industrial and residential. And so their performance is held up, so we think as interest rates come in the market, we probably -- we feel like there'll be 1 more raise and then probably sit there that folks will feel comfortable with the values in real estate and you'll start to see that flip. As far as all of the alts business, there's a denominator effect with the LPs, right? They've had a reduction in all their liquid assets. And to the extent that they'd like to deploy them, they're actually finding themselves over allocated in the alt space. So it's been harder on the fundraising side. I mean take private credit. Our -- BSP would tell you that they're seeing the best deals they've seen since the global financial crisis. But there's definitely some headwinds in raising money, just because of the fact that the LPs are fully over allocation to it.

他們在工業和住宅領域做得很大。因此他們的表現受到阻礙，所以我們認為隨著利率進入市場，我們可能 - 我們覺得會再加息一次，然後可能坐在那裡，人們會對房地產的價值感到滿意，你會開始看到那個翻轉。就所有替代業務而言，LP 有分母效應，對嗎？他們的所有流動資產都減少了。就他們想要部署它們的程度而言，他們實際上發現自己在 alt 空間中過度分配。因此，籌款方面變得更加困難。我的意思是接受私人信貸。我們的 BSP 會告訴你，他們看到了自全球金融危機以來他們見過的最好的交易。但在籌集資金方面肯定存在一些阻力，只是因為 LP 完全超額分配給它。

Now we've been -- Lexington set out to raise a $15 billion fund. They are -- the LPs have allowed them to extend it, and they will raise above that. And actually, I'd love to just point out that in the case of Lexington, we believe 10% of that fund will come from the wealth channel. We launched a product with a large partner, and they said you should be happy with the first fund at about $500 million, and we think that fund will cap out at the cap. We extended it to $1 billion. So kind of overall space is that the LPs are finding themselves overallocated because the markets -- their liquid assets have been down. But as the equity markets improved, you're actually starting to see them being able to deploy more capital.

現在我們已經 - 列剋星敦開始籌集 150 億美元的基金。他們是 - 有限合夥人允許他們延長它，他們會提高。實際上，我只想指出，就列剋星敦而言，我們相信該基金的 10% 將來自財富渠道。我們和一個大合作夥伴一起推出了一個產品，他們說你應該對大約 5 億美元的第一隻基金感到滿意，我們認為該基金將達到上限。我們將其擴大到 10 億美元。如此總體空間是有限合夥人發現自己過度分配，因為市場——他們的流動資產已經下降。但隨著股票市場的改善，你實際上開始看到他們能夠配置更多的資本。

The other thing that's happened is normal cash flows that come out of things like private equity are down quite a bit, so they haven't been able to fund from their existing alternatives. So it's just put them in a tougher spot, but they also recognize it's just a tremendous opportunity right now.

發生的另一件事是，來自私募股權之類的正常現金流下降了很多，因此他們無法從現有的替代方案中籌集資金。所以這只會讓他們處於更艱難的境地，但他們也認識到現在這只是一個巨大的機會。

Matt, I can see you'd love to say something.

馬特，我看得出你很想說些什麼。

Yes, I'd like to. I mean in terms of the performance fee composition, just to give you some idea and to address your question specifically around Clarion in a second. So out of the performance fee, about 60% of performance fee related to quarterly fees, about 10% realizations, about 20% annual. In terms of the 5-year threshold point I know you know this, but just to be -- just to state the obvious, that obviously, the whole client base isn't on 1 5-year term. There's hundreds of customers that have invested at different points of time. So there's different 5-year thresholds that occur all the time. So every quarter, there can be another group of 5-year threshold to the net, which leads to the performance fee threshold being met. And of course, some of those are different than 5 years. Sometimes you can have different performance thresholds based on different time lines. We just called out the 5 year this time because it happens to be a larger portion of the performance fee pay out.

是的，我願意。我的意思是就績效費用構成而言，只是為了給你一些想法，並在一秒鐘內專門解決你關於 Clarion 的問題。因此，在績效費用中，約 60% 的績效費用與季度費用相關，約 10% 的變現，約 20% 的年度費用。就 5 年門檻點而言，我知道你知道這一點，但只是為了說明這一點，很明顯，整個客戶群並不是在 1 個 5 年期限內。有數百名客戶在不同的時間點進行了投資。因此，一直存在不同的 5 年閾值。所以每一個季度，又可以有一組5年的門檻入網，這就導致績效費的門檻被滿足了。當然，其中一些不同於 5 年。有時您可以根據不同的時間線有不同的性能閾值。這次我們剛剛提到 5 年，因為它恰好是支付的績效費用的較大部分。

The final thing I would add on Clarion is that traditionally, they really have been focused on the institutional market, but we're starting to see much better flows out of the wealth channel now. CPREIF is now up on 20 different platforms. We're seeing good growth there. Their opportunity zone fund is doing well. BSP is doing well. Jenny spoke about Lexington, so the specialized unit we built in the alternative channel is finally coming online and producing really good results in the wealth channel.

我要對 Clarion 補充的最後一件事是，傳統上，他們確實一直專注於機構市場，但我們現在開始看到更好的資金流出財富渠道。 CPREIF 現在在 20 個不同的平台上運行。我們在那裡看到了良好的增長。他們的機會區基金表現良好。 BSP 做得很好。珍妮談到列剋星敦，所以我們在替代渠道中建立的專門部門終於上線，並在財富渠道中產生了非常好的結果。

Your next question comes from the line of Brennan Hawken from UBS.

你的下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Brennan Hawken。

Good to hear and see further commentary about the build-out of the wealth management alternatives distribution efforts. So curious and also, thanks, Jenny, for the color about the contributions to Fund 10 and Lexington. You'd flagged that in the write-up, so that makes a lot of sense. Have you -- what's the feedback that you're getting on the team that you put out there? And then when you're thinking about benchmarking that effort against competitors that have seen success, how has that process gone? And how much work is there continuing to add to those efforts?

很高興聽到和看到有關財富管理替代分配工作的進一步評論。非常好奇，也謝謝珍妮，感謝她對 Fund 10 和 Lexington 的捐款的色彩。你在文章中標記了這一點，所以這很有意義。你有沒有 - 你在那裡得到的團隊反饋是什麼？然後，當您考慮將這種努力與已經取得成功的競爭對手進行比較時，這個過程進行得如何？這些努力還有多少工作要做？

I'll let Adam take that since it's his team.

我會讓 Adam 接受，因為這是他的團隊。

Yes. Well, then you know what the answer is going to be, Jenny. So we're feeling really good about the results we've had out there. And all I would say is that when we're in the system, we're getting indications of where they think we should be, and we're exceeding those expectations pretty handily. So we're feeling really good about the results. I think the results are driven by a few things. We have a great combination of a strong brand name of great investment capability and a specialized distribution force. Those 3 things have come together in the wealth channel in a way that I don't think other firms can act. We are seeing growth not only in the wires, but in a number of the independent and regionals as well. Our next effort here is to really take that alternative specialized approach and build out both the product set and the sales team outside of the U.S. to tap into wealth channels outside of the U.S., and that's the process we're in right now.

是的。好吧，珍妮，那麼你就知道答案是什麼了。所以我們對我們在那裡取得的結果感覺非常好。我要說的是，當我們在系統中時，我們會得到他們認為我們應該在的位置的指示，並且我們很容易地超出了這些期望。所以我們對結果感覺非常好。我認為結果是由幾件事驅動的。我們擁有強大的投資能力和專業的分銷力量的強大品牌組合。這三件事以我認為其他公司無法採取的方式在財富渠道中結合在一起。我們不僅在電線上看到了增長，而且在許多獨立和區域性方面也看到了增長。我們接下來的努力是真正採用這種替代的專業方法，在美國以外建立產品集和銷售團隊，以利用美國以外的財富渠道，這就是我們現在正在進行的過程。

Great. And I know you touched on this a little bit before as far as the outlook for Western and flows. But when you look at the unfunded mandates and unfunded pipeline, would you say that there's an orientation to fixed income there? How does the balance look? And then how active are the RFPs, how active are you on the RFP fund for bonds?

偉大的。我知道你之前談到過西方和流動的前景。但是，當您查看沒有資金的授權和沒有資金的管道時，您會說那裡有固定收益的方向嗎？餘額看起來如何？然後，RFP 有多活躍，您在債券 RFP 基金中有多活躍？

Very active on RFPs for bonds. The good news is where we're seeing the activity is really across the board from high-grade credit mandates to high yield to private credit to core to global, global opportunistic. So in all the categories, we're seeing really good growth. When it comes to fixed income, it's crazy that we have 127 composites, but 42 of those are outperforming on the 1-, 3-, 5- and 10- year. And what that means is that we're able to compete in most sectors of fixed income quite well. The pipeline is diversified by asset class at this point. It's not really dominated by fixed income. And in fact, the most significant portion of it currently, I believe, is from our solutions business, which is really coming on quite nicely.

對債券的 RFP 非常活躍。好消息是，我們看到的活動確實是全面的，從高級信貸授權到高收益到私人信貸再到核心到全球、全球機會主義。因此，在所有類別中，我們都看到了非常好的增長。說到固定收益，我們有 127 種複合材料，這很瘋狂，但其中 42 種在 1 年、3 年、5 年和 10 年的表現優於大市。這意味著我們能夠在大多數固定收益領域競爭得很好。此時，管道按資產類別多樣化。它並不是真正由固定收益主導。事實上，我認為目前其中最重要的部分來自我們的解決方案業務，這確實進展順利。

Your next question comes from the line of Craig Siegenthaler from Bank of America.

你的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Craig Siegenthaler。

Jenny and Matt, hope you're both doing well. Sticking with the last topic of fixed income rebalancing, given your competitive and leading offerings in traditional fixed income, we wanted to get your perspective on the potential for large rebalancing into bonds, especially now that it looks like when you're in the end of the Fed's rate hiking cycle. And also, do you have any perspective on the potential inflow mix between active work you're more competitive and then pass it?

珍妮和馬特，希望你們都過得很好。堅持固定收益再平衡的最後一個主題，考慮到您在傳統固定收益方面具有競爭力和領先的產品，我們希望了解您對大規模再平衡到債券的潛力的看法，尤其是現在看起來當您結束時美聯儲的加息週期。而且，你對你更有競爭力然後通過它的積極工作之間的潛在流入組合有什麼看法嗎？

Look, I would say what we've seen on the institutional side is that the institutions have been staying conservative. We're waiting for this last, probably, Fed rate increase staying short duration and pretty high quality, but we're starting to see searches in more of a risk on. So that tells you that they're one, getting more comfortable with would be the economic backdrop and two, that they're starting to feel like we're at the peak of the curve. We're -- we think this is just going to be a massive opportunity on the fixed income side. Once people get comfortable that the Fed stops hiking. And I think my view is the Fed will raise and will sit through 2023, probably not have a decrease, but in that people will try to lock in those higher rates. I don't -- Adam, give a sense, passive versus active.

看，我想說我們在機構方面看到的是機構一直保持保守。我們正在等待這最後一次，可能是美聯儲加息保持較短的持續時間和相當高的質量，但我們開始看到更多風險的搜索。所以這告訴你他們是一個，越來越適應經濟背景和兩個，他們開始覺得我們正處於曲線的頂峰。我們 - 我們認為這將是固定收益方面的一個巨大機會。一旦人們對美聯儲停止加息感到滿意。而且我認為我的觀點是美聯儲將加息並將維持到 2023 年，可能不會降息，但人們會試圖鎖定那些更高的利率。我不——亞當，給出一種被動與主動的感覺。

Not necessarily a huge change in that mix. All I would say is that to the extent that we have continued volatility in rates for a little bit here, active management tends to do a little better in a situation where you have more movement. We certainly see that across the curve. And so we're seeing really good flows into active.

這種組合不一定會發生巨大變化。我要說的是，就我們這裡利率持續波動的程度而言，主動管理往往在你有更多變動的情況下做得更好。我們當然會在曲線上看到這一點。因此，我們看到非常好的流量進入活躍狀態。

It's an important time to be active in the fixed income space. This is not a great time to be passive in it. But that's just my view.

現在是活躍於固定收益領域的重要時刻。現在不是被動的好時機。但這只是我的看法。

Thank you, Jenny. And then just as my follow-up, we saw positive net inflows into APAC. Can you comment on what products and which geographies are driving the inflow?

謝謝你，珍妮。然後就像我的後續行動一樣，我們看到正淨流入亞太地區。您能否評論哪些產品和哪些地區正在推動資金流入？

Sure. Asia was really our strongest market in terms of net. What we've done there really is focused on a few themes. And I think we were early in that region in aligning our marketing product and sales all around certain themes and income has been something that's really been winning for us there. Our oldest fund is the income fund coming up on its 75th anniversary at over $80 billion in its various forms, and that's been doing particularly well in Asia. But we've also had big institutional wins in fixed income and equity and alternatives. So it's really been all of the asset classes. I think our Asian colleagues, if you take a look at Australia as an example, that was one of the first markets where we implemented this generalist specialist model where the local sales team is responsible for knowing the client really better than anyone else and then bringing in other members of the Franklin Templeton team. Given the geography there, that was 1 of the first places we started, and we've seen earlier results that have pronounced 30 months in a row positive net flow in Australia in retail. So Asia has been strong. If you see gross flows though, obviously, the U.S. is dominating there. That's our biggest market by far at about 72%.

當然。就網絡而言，亞洲確實是我們最強勁的市場。我們在那裡所做的實際上集中在幾個主題上。而且我認為我們在該地區的早期調整我們的營銷產品和銷售圍繞某些主題和收入一直是我們在那裡真正贏得的東西。我們歷史最悠久的基金是收益基金，在其成立 75 週年之際，各種形式的資產規模超過 800 億美元，在亞洲表現尤為出色。但我們在固定收益、股票和替代品方面也取得了巨大的機構勝利。所以它真的是所有的資產類別。我認為我們的亞洲同事，如果你以澳大利亞為例，那是我們實施這種通才專家模式的首批市場之一，當地銷售團隊負責比其他任何人都更了解客戶，然後帶來在富蘭克林鄧普頓團隊的其他成員中。考慮到那裡的地理位置，那是我們首先開始的地方之一，我們已經看到早期的結果表明澳大利亞零售業連續 30 個月出現正淨流量。所以亞洲一直很強大。不過，如果你看到總流量，顯然美國在這方面占主導地位。這是迄今為止我們最大的市場，約佔 72%。

Your next question comes from the line of Alex Blostein from Goldman Sachs.

你的下一個問題來自高盛的 Alex Blostein。

So maybe just to stay on the fixed income topic for a second. I hear your point on active versus passive, but year-to-date, fixed income ETFs have overwhelmed the gain share versus active products. So is that largely a retail dynamic? Or what you're referring to is largely on the institutional side? Or are you starting to see maybe some improvement in active appetite. And curious how your private credit offering fits in within all of that, right? Because on the one hand, if traditional fixed income strategies continue to get squeezed, you guys have an opportunity to cross-sell into some of the old managers. So how are those kind of separate managers working together to sort of tackle the client from both sides?

所以也許只是停留在固定收益話題上一秒鐘。我聽到了你關於主動與被動的觀點，但今年迄今為止，固定收益 ETF 的收益份額已經超過了主動產品。那麼這在很大程度上是一種零售動態嗎？或者你所指的主要是製度方面的？或者您是否開始看到積極的食慾有所改善。好奇你的私人信貸產品如何融入所有這些，對吧？因為一方面，如果傳統的固定收益策略繼續受到擠壓，你們就有機會向一些老經理進行交叉銷售。那麼，這些獨立的經理如何一起工作來解決雙方的客戶問題呢？

So I'll take the second part of that question, and Adam, I'll leave the passive and active to you. Honestly, on the private credit side, as I mentioned, the BSP folks would say that they're seeing the best deals since the global financial crisis, but this denominator effect is an issue with the LPs. But the other side of this is why are they seeing those deals? They're seeing those deals because banks are just not wanting to lend. And while you can look at structured products and syndicated products and say, "Well, those are off the bank's balance sheet". The bank still has to retain a portion of that equity. And so you're just -- traditionally, it was about 50-50 kind of syndicated in private credit. And I think our private credit team would say that they're going to see more coming to private credit and less banks stepping in.

所以我將回答這個問題的第二部分，亞當，我將把被動和主動留給你。老實說，在私人信貸方面，正如我提到的，BSP 的人會說他們看到了自全球金融危機以來最好的交易，但這種分母效應是 LP 的一個問題。但另一方面，他們為什麼會看到這些交易？他們看到這些交易是因為銀行不想放貸。雖然您可以查看結構性產品和銀團產品並說，“嗯，那些不在銀行的資產負債表內”。銀行仍然必須保留一部分股權。所以你只是 - 傳統上，它是大約 50-50 種私人信貸聯合組織。而且我認為我們的私人信貸團隊會說他們將看到更多的私人信貸和更少的銀行介入。

So I think that changes the dynamic a bit. Having said that, they'll tell you 1 of the headwinds is you can get secondary, you could buy a bond out in the liquid market and get a 9% return in a high yield. And so that is a headwind for the private credit today because there isn't as much differentiation between the returns on the private credit side on the existing portfolios as there is in the liquid market. So I think that's going to be a headwind for a little while. On the other hand, as you're seeing banks lend less and these guys get to be more -- as long as you have a good origination machine in your private credit manager you're going to get the very good deals, and you're not going to have as much competition. So that's why we're very bullish on it despite a little bit of headwinds today. Adam?

所以我認為這會稍微改變動態。話雖如此，他們會告訴你其中的一個不利因素是你可以獲得次級債券，你可以在流動市場購買債券並獲得 9% 的高收益回報。因此，這對今天的私人信貸來說是一個不利因素，因為現有投資組合的私人信貸方面的回報與流動市場中的回報沒有太大區別。所以我認為這將是一段時間的逆風。另一方面，當你看到銀行貸款減少而這些人變得更多時——只要你的私人信貸經理有一台好的貸款機器，你就會得到非常好的交易，而且你不會有那麼多的競爭。這就是為什麼儘管今天有一些不利因素，但我們仍然非常看好它。亞當？

I would also say that it's tough to predict, active versus passive. I don't know that we have special insight into that, but we do have insight into demand for active. And there's a tremendous amount, and there's plenty for us and that's really across the different asset classes. High yield, we've seen turn around quite nicely. If you get a weakening dollar here, we think our global strategies can do well. We have pension plans that are better funded now and we have specific strategies designed to help to fees those liabilities. Those are all active.

我還要說很難預測，主動與被動。我不知道我們對此有特別的洞察力，但我們確實對活躍的需求有洞察力。而且數量巨大，對我們來說有很多，而且確實跨越了不同的資產類別。高收益，我們已經看到很好的轉機。如果美元走弱，我們認為我們的全球戰略可以做得很好。我們的養老金計劃現在得到了更好的資金支持，並且我們有專門的策略來幫助支付這些負債。這些都是活躍的。

So we're seeing demand really across every single bit of our active portfolio. And if you look at traditional performance, Western had a rough go of it, they're tough decile now over the last 6 months. And after a fall like this, that's typically when they generate their greatest alpha given that they're a slightly higher beta manager. So this is probably the best type of environment for them right now. So don't know about passive, but feeling pretty good about the opportunities for active.

因此，我們真正看到了我們活躍投資組合中每一點的需求。如果你看看傳統的表現，Western 表現不佳，他們在過去 6 個月裡表現不佳。在這樣的下跌之後，這通常是他們產生最大阿爾法的時候，因為他們是一個略高的貝塔經理。所以這可能是目前對他們來說最好的環境類型。所以不知道被動，但對主動的機會感覺很好。

And for my follow-up, maybe asking a question on the alt business. You guys have strategically tried to build that out over the last couple of years. If we look at AUM, it's been sort of flattish over the last couple of quarters, and I know AUM doesn't tell the full picture. So maybe help us break down what the management fee is associated with the private or the old book for you guys today. And how do you see that growing over the next, call it, 12 months based on things where you sort of see a line of sight, whether it's deploying capital on things that have already been raised that will begin earning fees undeployed or sort of funds that you have coming online over the next couple of quarters?

對於我的後續行動，也許會問一個關於替代業務的問題。在過去的幾年裡，你們一直在戰略性地嘗試建立它。如果我們看一下 AUM，它在過去幾個季度有點平淡，我知道 AUM 並沒有說明全貌。因此，也許今天可以幫助我們分解與私人或舊書相關的管理費。你如何看待接下來的增長，稱之為 12 個月，基於你看到的東西，無論是將資本部署在已經籌集的東西上，這些東西將開始賺取未部署的費用或某種資金你在接下來的幾個季度上線了嗎？

Matt, do you want to take that.

馬特，你想接受嗎？

Yes, sure. Thanks, Jenny. So maybe just to take a bit of a step back and review where we've come from to, Alex, to think that's important. Our alternative asset management fee screen, let's call it, increase from 2021 to 2022 by 50%. From 2022 to 2023, we expect it to increase by another 30%. Just over 80% of the AUM is the generating AUM and that creates sort of a mid -- sort of high 50s, mid-50s EFR. But obviously, the range is very significant. So we've got very different businesses within that 80% fee earning AUM. That, as a whole, means that our management fee revenue from alternative assets this quarter reached 25% of our overall business.

是的，當然。謝謝，珍妮。所以也許只是退後一步，回顧一下我們從哪裡來，亞歷克斯，認為這很重要。我們的另類資產管理費屏幕，我們稱之為，從 2021 年到 2022 年增加 50%。從 2022 年到 2023 年，我們預計它會再增加 30%。超過 80% 的 AUM 是生成 AUM，這創造了一個中等——有點高的 50 年代，50 年代中期的 EFR。但顯然，範圍非常大。因此，在 80% 的收費 AUM 中，我們有非常不同的業務。總體而言，這意味著本季度我們來自另類資產的管理費收入達到了我們整體業務的 25%。

Now obviously, that's a function of the traditional business shrinking a little bit, the market is coming down there and the market is being more stable in alternative assets. But it's getting very close to our 1/3, let's call it, target that we expected to have in terms of management fee revenue.

很明顯，這是傳統業務略有萎縮的結果，市場正在下跌，另類資產市場更加穩定。但它已經非常接近我們的 1/3，我們稱之為我們在管理費收入方面預期的目標。

If you add performance fees to that, you go from $1.3 billion to $1.4 billion of management fee revenue and you know what our performance fees were last year, we had a few hundred million dollars of that this year. We're getting to the high $1 billion in terms of contribution in revenues. I think that we see a future where that outside of additional potential acquisitions, where that should grow at an organic growth rate of between 5% and 10%. And it would be great if it was 10% or higher, but we're just being conservative in the 5% to 10% area. It has actually grown organically by 5% to 10% in terms of what we've acquired.

如果你加上績效費用，你的管理費收入將從 13 億美元增加到 14 億美元，你知道我們去年的績效費用是多少，今年我們有幾億美元。就收入貢獻而言，我們正在達到 10 億美元的高位。我認為我們看到的未來是，除了額外的潛在收購之外，它應該以 5% 到 10% 的有機增長率增長。如果它是 10% 或更高，那就太好了，但我們只是在 5% 到 10% 的範圍內保守。就我們收購的資產而言，它實際上已經有機增長了 5% 到 10%。

The area of shrinkage that we've experienced in the alternative asset AUM, Alex, I think you're referring to is all on the -- all on the liquid side of the business. We have a couple of fairly sizable strategies there that had some performance issues earlier on this year and late last year and that led to outflows there. But I'd just say, overall, we are very much on target in terms of what we expect, the alternative asset contribution to be against the overall business, number one. Number two, where we expect the EFR to be and how that helps us hedge the traditional asset management business, performance fees to be and where the overall business mix is and what's fee generating what's not fee generating.

我們在另類資產 AUM 中經歷的收縮領域，亞歷克斯，我認為你指的是——所有在業務的流動性方面。我們在那裡有幾個相當大的策略，這些策略在今年早些時候和去年年底出現了一些性能問題，並導致那裡出現資金外流。但我只想說，總的來說，我們非常符合我們的預期，另類資產對整體業務的貢獻，第一。第二，我們期望 EFR 在哪里以及它如何幫助我們對沖傳統資產管理業務、業績費用以及整體業務組合在哪里以及產生什麼費用而不產生什麼費用。

Your next question comes from the line of Ken Worthington from JPMorgan.

你的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Ken Worthington。

First on gross inflows into equity funds or the equity business. The gross inflows were soft this quarter. You highlighted some of the areas that are working quite well, ETFs global small cap. What parts of the big business are struggling most here? Where was sort of the delta that you saw this quarter versus last quarter. Like clearly, you mentioned the risk off environment, but where are you seeing the incremental pain today versus what you saw in prior quarters?

首先是流入股票基金或股票業務的總額。本季度總流入量疲軟。您強調了一些運作良好的領域，ETF 全球小型股。大企業的哪些部分在這裡最掙扎？您在本季度與上一季度看到的增量在哪裡。很明顯，你提到了風險規避環境，但與前幾個季度相比，你今天看到的增量痛苦在哪裡？

Yes. So first thing, equities was our softest asset class, but I would note that if you take a look at our flows ex dividend, they were actually up quarter-over-quarter, and our redemptions were down. So some bright news behind the negative net. If you take a look at the numbers behind that, large-cap growth was the area of the equity market that was hit hardest with negative flows over the last several quarters, and it's a large -- and it's the area where we have the most significant asset base. So we are roughly balanced. We have slightly more AUM and growth versus value, but in large cap growth, we have a number of funds, that area was hit hard, where we see growth is actually in some of the smaller areas like international and small cap where we actually had some positive flows. The truth is that those positive flows are in asset classes that have a smaller slice of the pie, which helped lead to the negative flows overall.

是的。所以首先，股票是我們最軟的資產類別，但我要指出的是，如果你看一下我們的流量（不包括股息），它們實際上環比上升，而我們的贖回卻下降了。因此，消極網絡背後的一些好消息。如果你看一下這背後的數字，大盤股增長是股市在過去幾個季度中受到負流量打擊最嚴重的領域，而且規模很大——而且是我們擁有最多的領域重要的資產基礎。所以我們大致平衡。我們的 AUM 和增長與價值相比略多，但在大盤增長中，我們有許多基金，該領域受到重創，我們看到增長實際上是在一些較小的領域，如我們實際擁有的國際和小盤一些積極的流動。事實是，那些正向流動的資產類別所佔份額較小，這有助於導致整體負向流動。

Okay. And then it was a big quarter for money market funds helped by the stress in the banking sector in March. To what extent is Franklin and Western benefiting from this transition from banks to money funds. And how is Franklin's cash management business broadly positioned if and as more money comes out of the banks in the future? And then I guess, lastly, you mentioned the one-off outflow as part of a sweep program. Are there more outflows to come from that program? Or is it sort of like one and done?

好的。然後，在 3 月份銀行業壓力的幫助下，這是貨幣市場基金的一個重要季度。富蘭克林和韋斯特在多大程度上受益於從銀行到貨幣基金的轉變。如果未來有更多資金從銀行流出，富蘭克林的現金管理業務將如何定位？然後我想，最後，你提到一次性流出是掃描程序的一部分。該計劃是否會有更多資金流出？或者它有點像一個完成了？

There could be a couple of billion more potential outflows in that just because they're still in that regional bank. But otherwise, the bulk of it has already passed through. So now it's about positioning our money markets, and obviously, Western's a behemoth in the space. So we are very well positioned for it.

僅僅因為它們仍在該區域銀行中，可能會有數十億美元的潛在外流。但除此之外，它的大部分已經通過了。所以現在是關於定位我們的貨幣市場，顯然，Western 是該領域的龐然大物。所以我們已經做好了準備。

Your next question comes from the line of Glenn Schorr from Evercore.

你的下一個問題來自 Evercore 的 Glenn Schorr。

So I guess you referred to the solutions orientation a few times. I just want to circle back. My feeling is Legg was a work in progress before Franklin -- was a work in progress trying to deliver the franchise because of the multi-asset -- multi-boutique nature of it. I think Franklin was better at it, and then you're in the process of smooshing them together. You add in a bunch of private markets. So my question is, where do you think you're at in terms of being able to deliver large multi-asset mandates and is that something you're working on? And should we expect to see in the future?

所以我猜你提到了幾次解決方案方向。我只想繞回來。我的感覺是 Legg 在富蘭克林之前是一項正在進行的工作——由於它的多資產——多精品店性質，它正在努力提供特許經營權。我認為富蘭克林在這方面做得更好，然後你就在把他們混在一起。您添加了一堆私人市場。所以我的問題是，你認為你在能夠交付大型多資產任務方面處於什麼位置，這是你正在努力的事情嗎？我們應該期待在未來看到嗎？

So that is, as I mentioned, I think that's one of our areas that we think is a big opportunity of growth. And again, our roots with the flagship Franklin Income Fund and being around for 75 years. We think we're pretty good at it. So it's been an area of big focus. And actually, in April, we have a couple of wins in the multi-asset space that came from our solutions group. So right now, I don't think we have consistent quarterly flows there, but we're starting to get -- there's a strong pipeline and we're starting to get more consistent flows in the space. And I would say that -- and Adam could probably speak to it since he was CEO of Brandywine at the time. But the difference between what Legg was trying to pull together were that the SIMs didn't even talk to each other, let alone the parent is much, whereas today, I think there's just a much greater just the SIMs willing to work with each other and come up with ideas.

所以，正如我提到的，我認為這是我們認為是一個巨大增長機會的領域之一。再一次，我們與旗艦富蘭克林收入基金的淵源已經存在了 75 年。我們認為我們很擅長。所以這是一個重點關注的領域。實際上，在 4 月份，我們的解決方案團隊在多資產領域取得了一些勝利。所以現在，我認為我們在那裡沒有一致的季度流量，但我們開始 - 有一個強大的管道，我們開始在該領域獲得更一致的流量。我會這麼說——亞噹噹時是布蘭迪萬的首席執行官，他可能會這麼說。但是 Legg 試圖團結起來的不同之處在於，SIM 之間甚至沒有相互交談，更不用說父母了，而今天，我認為只有 SIM 願意彼此合作並提出想法。

I mean discussions between Western and Benefit Street Partners on joining private credit and liquid credit, our local asset management team that managed Shariah fixed income reaching out to Benefit Street Partners and doing a Shariah private credit product. So I just think that there's -- 1 is they're coming out of not only the multi-asset solutions group who's working with them. But also we're actually finding the investment teams, the various SIMs are coming up with ideas to work with each other.

我的意思是 Western 和 Benefit Street Partners 之間關於加入私人信貸和流動信貸的討論，我們管理伊斯蘭教法固定收益的本地資產管理團隊接觸到 Benefit Street Partners 並製作伊斯蘭教法私人信貸產品。所以我只是認為 - 1 是他們不僅來自與他們合作的多資產解決方案小組。但我們實際上也在尋找投資團隊，各種 SIM 正在提出相互合作的想法。

Absolutely. And I think the other nice thing about this solutions business is that we're strong on the institutional side with the large platforms, insurance companies, et cetera. But the other nice thing is that we're using our technology space through our goals optimization engine. We're actually able to take asset allocation solutions orientation to the wealth channel, and we're seeing a pretty significant pickup there. So it's really solutions across the board from wealth to institutional.

絕對地。而且我認為這個解決方案業務的另一個好處是我們在大型平台、保險公司等機構方面很強大。但另一件好事是我們正在通過我們的目標優化引擎使用我們的技術空間。我們實際上能夠將資產配置解決方案定位於財富渠道，並且我們看到那裡的增長非常顯著。所以它真的是從財富到機構的全面解決方案。

Your next question comes from the line of Brian Bedell from Deutsche Bank.

你的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Brian Bedell。

I just -- if I can ask a 2-parter in fixed income. And that is maybe switching to the retail public side. If you can characterize how you're seeing demand form in the classic Franklin taxable bond franchise, also the global franchise as well, considering, obviously, we have much higher rates and the comments you made earlier on the stability of rates.

我只是 - 如果我能問一個固定收益的 2 夥伴。這可能會轉向零售公共方面。如果你能描述你如何看待經典的富蘭克林應稅債券特許經營權以及全球特許經營權中的需求形式，顯然，考慮到我們有更高的利率以及你早些時候對利率穩定性發表的評論。

And then the second part would be on the Western side, if -- again, it's good that we're moving into a higher rate back drop that's more sustained -- that's more sort of plateauing potentially, and you sound very excited about institutional mandates picking up. I guess, how would that fare? Or how do you see any kind of risk to future flows if we move into a credit cycle in the later part of the year in, say, a recession scenario? And that would be more for the Western set.

然後第二部分將在西方方面，如果——再一次，我們正在進入一個更持久的更高利率回落是件好事——這可能更穩定，你聽起來對機構授權非常興奮拿起。我想，那會怎麼樣？或者，如果我們在今年下半年進入信貸週期，比如在經濟衰退的情況下，您如何看待未來流動的任何風險？這對於西方場景來說更是如此。

Well, as I mentioned, 6 of our top 10 grossing strategies are all fixed income, and that's a mix of both Franklin, Brandywine and Western. So -- and as we've talked about in prior calls, there's very little correlation between how Brandywine's excess returns are to Western and Franklin, it's nice that we really come at it from a diversified portfolio of investment teams. I'll let Adam talk about kind of the flow thing. I would just comment on the credit cycle. That is where active management makes all the difference. And so honestly, as we -- if we move into kind of a deeper recessionary environment as opposed to a lighter recessionary environment, it's going to make all the difference that you had an active approach to your portfolio in fixed income. Adam, do you want to add to the flow.

好吧，正如我提到的，我們的前 10 大獲利策略中有 6 種都是固定收益，而且是富蘭克林、布蘭迪萬和西方的混合體。所以——正如我們在之前的電話會議中談到的那樣，Brandywine 的超額回報與 Western 和 Franklin 之間的相關性很小，很高興我們真的來自多元化的投資團隊組合。我會讓 Adam 談談關於流動的事情。我只想評論信貸週期。這就是主動管理髮揮重要作用的地方。老實說，如果我們進入更深的衰退環境而不是更輕的衰退環境，那麼你對固定收益投資組合採取積極的態度將會產生重大影響。 Adam，你想添加到流程中嗎？

Yes. When we talk about the traditional Franklin side of things as well in addition to Western, our global macro performance has turned around. That's an area where we're seeing the story, which is positive. And let's not (inaudible) something like $76 billion. We're seeing strong growth there, placement on more systems. So I think both of those as well as Western, Brandywine and then the private credit thing, all of those (inaudible).

是的。當我們談論事物的傳統富蘭克林方面以及西方事物時，我們的全球宏觀表現已經好轉。這是我們看到故事的領域，這是積極的。讓我們不要（聽不清）像 760 億美元這樣的東西。我們在那裡看到了強勁的增長，在更多系統上的位置。所以我認為這兩者以及西方、白蘭地酒和私人信貸的東西，所有這些（聽不清）。

I guess where are you seeing the redemptions on the retail fixed income side coming from? Is there any areas that are still sort of pressure?

我猜你從哪裡看到零售固定收益方面的贖回？是否有任何領域仍然存在壓力？

Look, I would say that the 2 biggest fixed income are Core and Core plus, they tend to be the drivers of gross sales as well as the drivers of redemption.

聽著，我會說兩個最大的固定收益是核心和核心加，它們往往是總銷售額的驅動力和贖回的驅動力。

We have a last question coming from the line of Finian O'Shea from Wells Fargo.

最後一個問題來自富國銀行的 Finian O'Shea。

A question on Alcentra. Can you talk about the progress on integration into Benefit Street, if that is complete in your mind? And then on the product and distribution side for that platform? Any color you can provide from early discussions with LPs on their receptivity to do more given its greater scale in capital and origination?

關於 Alcentra 的問題。能否談談融入Benefit Street的進展，如果你認為已經完成了？然後在該平台的產品和分銷方面？您可以從與 LP 的早期討論中提供任何顏色，了解他們是否願意在資本和起源規模更大的情況下做更多的事情？

Yes. So the leadership that BSP is driving the really -- to the extent that there's integration, the integration with Alcentra. And we've now gone out and won. First thing you do is you make sure that you retain your key employees. And so we feel like we've stabilized the team there. We've met with all of their key clients. And so that's both the BSP folks move on with the central folks and (inaudible) just distribute, that is local European private credit, but again, the private credit market faces a little bit of the headwinds that we talked about that BSP has faced. So there's -- in April, we have good CLO progress. And I think Alcentra is 49% of our CLOs. So we're still -- we feel good about that. I think though that we -- the fact that they're stable and now moving forward is I think is where we hope they'd be at this point, and I think that's where they are.

是的。因此，BSP 正在推動真正的領導——在某種程度上，與 Alcentra 的整合。我們現在已經出去贏了。您要做的第一件事是確保留住關鍵員工。所以我們覺得我們已經穩定了那裡的團隊。我們會見了他們所有的主要客戶。因此，BSP 人員與中央人員一起前進，並且（聽不清）只是分發，這是歐洲當地的私人信貸，但同樣，私人信貸市場面臨著我們談到 BSP 所面臨的一些不利因素。所以 - 在四月份，我們有很好的 CLO 進展。我認為 Alcentra 占我們 CLO 的 49%。所以我們仍然 - 我們對此感覺良好。我認為儘管我們 - 他們穩定並且現在向前發展的事實是我認為我們希望他們在這一點上的位置，我認為這就是他們所在的位置。

This concludes today's Q&A session. I would now like to hand the call back over to ...

今天的問答環節到此結束。我現在想把電話轉回......

I'm sorry. We have one other question that came through on the screen without answer. Can everybody hear me?

對不起。我們還有一個問題出現在屏幕上，但沒有得到回答。每個人都能聽到我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay, great. So we had a question that was a follow-up on the guidance, quarterly guidance. And the question was, "how does that impact our annual guidance." We gave an annual guidance range last quarter of $3.95 billion to $4 billion of adjusted expenses, annual adjusted expenses. And I'll just say, obviously, we're only halfway through the year, but all else remaining equal, despite improved market levels, improved flows, improved performance which push out formulary compensation, as I referenced on the question from Bill Katz. We're only slightly increasing the upper end of our guidance range to $4.05 billion. So the guide would be $3.95 billion to $4.05 billion for the year. And right now, we expect to be on the upper end of that range, excluding performance fees. Thanks for the question.

好的，太好了。所以我們有一個問題是對指南、季度指南的跟進。問題是，“這對我們的年度指導有何影響。”我們在上個季度給出了 39.5 億美元至 40 億美元的調整後支出年度指導範圍，即年度調整後支出。我只想說，很明顯，我們今年才過了一半，但其他一切都保持不變，儘管市場水平有所提高，流量有所改善，績效有所提高，這推出了公式化薪酬，正如我在 Bill Katz 的問題中提到的那樣。我們只是將指導範圍的上限略微上調至 40.5 億美元。因此，全年的指導價為 39.5 億美元至 40.5 億美元。而現在，我們預計將處於該範圍的上限，不包括績效費用。謝謝你的問題。

I would now like to turn the call back over to Ms. Jenny Johnson, Franklin president and CEO, for final comments.

我現在想將電話轉回給富蘭克林總裁兼首席執行官珍妮約翰遜女士，以徵求最終意見。

Great. Well, everybody, thank you for participating in today's call. And once again, we'd like to thank our employees for their hard work and dedication, and we look forward to speaking to you again next quarter. Thanks, everybody.

偉大的。好的，謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。再次感謝我們員工的辛勤工作和奉獻精神，我們期待下個季度再次與您交談。謝謝大家。

Thank you so much, presenters. And thank you, everyone. This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

非常感謝各位主持人。謝謝大家。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連接。