富蘭克林資源 (BEN) 2022 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Franklin Resources Conference Call for the quarter end June 30, 2022. Hello. My name is Daniel, and I will be your call operator today. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

歡迎參加截至 2022 年 6 月 30 日季度的富蘭克林資源電話會議。我叫丹尼爾，今天我將擔任您的接線生。提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。 （操作員指令）

I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Selene Oh, Head of Investor Relations for Franklin Resources. You may begin.

現在，我想將會議交給主持人、富蘭克林資源公司投資者關係主管 Selene Oh。你可以開始了。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today to discuss our quarterly results.

早安，感謝您今天加入我們討論我們的季度業績。

Statements made on this conference call regarding Franklin Resources Inc., which are not historical facts, are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements involve a number of known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from any future results expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. These and other risks, uncertainties and other important factors are just described in more detail in Franklin's recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including in the Risk Factors and the MD&A sections of Franklin's most recent 10-K and 10-Q filings.

本次電話會議上有關富蘭克林資源公司的陳述並非歷史事實，而是 1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案所定義的前瞻性陳述。這些和其他風險、不確定性和其他重要因素在富蘭克林最近提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中進行了更詳細的描述，包括富蘭克林最近的 10-K 和 10-Q 文件中的風險因素和 MD&A 部分。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Jenny Johnson, our President and Chief Executive Officer.

現在我想將電話轉給我們的總裁兼執行長珍妮·約翰遜。

Thank you, Selene. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss Franklin Templeton's third fiscal quarter results. Matthew Nicholls, our CFO and COO; and Adam Spector, our Head of Global Distribution, are on the call with me.

謝謝你，Selene。大家好，感謝您今天加入我們討論富蘭克林鄧普頓第三財季的業績。我們的財務長兼營運長 Matthew Nicholls；和我們的全球分銷主管 Adam Spector 也和我一起參加了電話會議。

Since January, macroeconomic and geopolitical factors have contributed to global financial markets experiencing a period of volatility not witnessed in decades, with substantial drawdowns in both equities and fixed income markets. These declines have challenged investor sentiment and industry flows, particularly in fixed income. While our assets under management and flows were impacted by these industry-wide pressures, we continue to benefit from a diversified mix of assets. As investors look to reposition their portfolios, we've seen interest in our Alternative and Multi-Asset strategies, which both experienced strong net inflows during the quarter.

自今年1月以來，宏觀經濟和地緣政治因素導致全球金融市場經歷了幾十年來未有之大的動盪，股票和固定收益市場都大幅下跌。這些下跌對投資者情緒和產業流動性帶來了挑戰，尤其是固定收益領域。雖然我們的管理資產和流量受到整個行業壓力的影響，但我們仍然受益於多元化的資產組合。隨著投資者尋求重新配置其投資組合，我們看到投資者對我們的另類資產和多元資產策略的興趣，這兩個策略在本季度都經歷了強勁的淨流入。

In addition, notwithstanding flow pressures in fixed income, investor interest remains robust across the asset class. Over the past few years, we've been very deliberate in transforming our company by expanding our investment capabilities and deepening our presence in key markets and channels. This diversification, combined with our financial flexibility, serves us well across market cycles and is creating broader sources of revenue, positioning our company for future success.

此外，儘管固定收益領域存在流動性壓力，但投資者對整個資產類別的興趣仍然強勁。過去幾年來，我們一直致力於透過擴大投資能力和深化在關鍵市場和通路的影響力來實現公司轉型。這種多樣化，加上我們的財務靈活性，使我們在整個市場週期中發揮了良好的作用，並創造了更廣泛的收入來源，為我們公司未來的成功奠定了基礎。

This quarter, we continued to make progress building our Alternative Asset business, which is less correlated to public markets and a source of increasing client demand. We now have specialist investment managers that represent a meaningful portion of the key Alternative categories.

本季度，我們繼續在另類資產業務建設方面取得進展，該業務與公開市場的關聯性較小，是客戶需求不斷增長的一個來源。我們現在擁有代表主要另類類別重要部分的專業投資經理。

On April 1, we closed the acquisition of Lexington Partners, a leader in secondary private equity where current markets create further interesting opportunities. At the end of May, we announced the acquisition of Alcentra, and we are pleased to welcome the Alcentra team to Franklin Templeton. This acquisition was an opportunity for us to enter the European alternative credit sector at meaningful scale and globalize our current U.S. alternative credit business, Benefit Street Partners. As one of the largest European credit and private debt managers, Alcentra has approximately $38 billion in AUM, with global expertise across a broad array of credit strategies.

4 月 1 日，我們完成了對 Lexington Partners 的收購，該公司是二級私募股權領域的領導者，目前的市場創造了更多有趣的機會。五月底，我們宣布收購 Alcentra，我們很高興歡迎 Alcentra 團隊加入富蘭克林鄧普頓。此次收購為我們提供了一個機會，讓我們能夠大規模進入歐洲另類信貸領域，並使我們目前的美國另類信貸業務 Benefit Street Partners 實現全球化。作為歐洲最大的信貸和私人債務管理公司之一，Alcentra 的資產管理規模約為 380 億美元，在廣泛的信貸策略方面擁有全球專業知識。

Given the current challenging market conditions, we are pleased to have carefully structured the transaction to help mitigate risks. Alcentra has a strong team that will benefit from the scale, stability and cultural alignment of being part of a combined alternative credit specialist investment manager, led by Benefit Street Partners' long-tenured and experienced senior management team. Pro forma for Alcentra's AUM, our Alternative Credit AUM doubles to approximately $77 billion and our aggregate Alternative AUM increases to over $260 billion, representing 19% of our AUM and an even higher percentage of our adjusted revenues.

鑑於當前充滿挑戰的市場條件，我們很高興能夠精心建立交易以幫助降低風險。 Alcentra 擁有一支強大的團隊，作為一家聯合另類信貸專業投資管理公司的一部分，該團隊將受益於規模、穩定性和文化一致性，由 Benefit Street Partners 長期任職且經驗豐富的高級管理團隊領導。根據 Alcentra 的 AUM 預測，我們的替代信貸 AUM 翻了一番，達到約 770 億美元，而我們的總替代 AUM 則增加到 2600 多億美元，占我們 AUM 的 19%，甚至占我們調整後收入的更高比例。

As mentioned, this quarter's market environment challenged industry flows. And while we continue to benefit from a diversified mix of assets, we had third quarter long-term net outflows of $19.8 billion. Fiscal year-to-date long-term net outflows were $7.4 billion.

如上所述，本季的市場環境對產業流程提出了挑戰。雖然我們繼續受益於多元化資產組合，但第三季我們的長期淨流出量達到 198 億美元。本財年迄今的長期淨流出為 74 億美元。

This quarter's continued market dislocation, rising rate environment and the need for inflation hedging has heightened investor interest in alternatives. Our net inflows increased to $2.1 billion this quarter, and included outflows in certain liquid alternative strategies. Our 3 largest alternative managers, Benefit Street Partners, Clarion Partners and Lexington Partners, each had net inflows with a combined total of $4 billion. Fundraising momentum in this area continues.

本季持續的市場混亂、利率環境上升以及通膨對沖的需求，提升了投資者對替代品的興趣。本季我們的淨流入增加至 21 億美元，其中包括某些流動性替代策略的流出。我們最大的 3 家另類基金管理公司 Benefit Street Partners、Clarion Partners 和 Lexington Partners 的淨流入總額均為 40 億美元。該領域的籌款勢頭仍在持續。

Our Multi-Asset net inflows were $1.6 billion, which represented the fourth consecutive positive quarter for the asset class. In this broad market sell-off environment, where investors are focused on income-generating strategies, we benefited from having strong income funds managed for yield, with notable investment track records and customization strategies.

我們的多種資產淨流入量為 16 億美元，這是該資產類別連續第四個季度實現正成長。在這種廣泛的市場拋售環境下，投資人專注於創收策略，我們受惠於擁有強大的收益管理收入基金，其投資績效記錄和客製化策略十分出色。

The first half of 2022 saw the worst fixed income net outflows for the U.S. mutual fund industry since 2000, with 6 consecutive months of net outflows. While client interest in the asset class continued to be strong and our fixed income inflows increased by 6% from the prior quarter, net outflows were $14.3 billion, primarily due to certain U.S. taxable and muni strategies. We benefited from having a broad range of fixed income strategies with non-correlated investment philosophies, including net flows into taxable U.S. income, multi-sector bond, corporate and enhanced liquidity strategies.

2022年上半年，美國共同基金產業固定收益淨流出為2000年以來最嚴重，連續6個月出現淨流出。雖然客戶對該資產類別的興趣持續強勁，且我們的固定收益流入較上一季增長 6%，但淨流出為 143 億美元，這主要歸因於某些美國應稅和市政債券策略。我們受惠於擁有廣泛的固定收益策略和非相關投資理念，包括流入美國應稅收入的淨流入、多部門債券、企業和增強流動性策略。

Equity net outflows were $9.2 billion. This quarter, the risk-off environment impacted investor sentiment on certain growth strategies, which were partially offset by positive net flows into infrastructure, emerging markets and sector-specific equity strategies.

股票淨流出為 92 億美元。本季度，避險環境影響了投資者對某些成長策略的情緒，但流入基礎設施、新興市場和特定行業股票策略的正淨資金流入部分抵消了這一影響。

Consistent with what we've learned throughout our 75-year history, we've been front and center with our clients to help them navigate this period of high market volatility, rising rates and inflation and fears of recession. In this period of uncertainty, the importance of thought leadership and active engagement have increased. Clients are looking to us to provide them with investment solutions focused on income, inflation-hedged alternative and customization strategies as they look to rebalance their portfolios and reallocate risk across a variety of asset classes.

與我們 75 年歷史中所學到的經驗一致，我們一直站在客戶最前線，幫助他們度過市場劇烈波動、利率和通膨上升以及經濟衰退恐慌的時期。在這個不確定的時期，思想領導和積極參與的重要性日益增加。客戶希望我們為他們提供以收入、通膨對沖替代和客製化策略為重點的投資解決方案，以重新平衡他們的投資組合併在各種資產類別中重新分配風險。

Last year, we shifted to a regionally focused sales model to meet the varying demands of our global business, shifting decision-making and resources closer to our clients. This quarter, we saw the benefits of geographical diversification outside the U.S., with improving net sales trends in EMEA and positive net flows in the Americas. Net flows for non-U.S. regions improved by 79% fiscal year-to-date from the year ago period.

去年，我們轉向以區域為中心的銷售模式，以滿足全球業務的不同需求，將決策和資源轉移到更靠近客戶的位置。本季度，我們看到了美國以外地區地理多元化的好處，歐洲、中東和非洲地區的淨銷售趨勢有所改善，美洲地區的淨流量為正。本財年迄今，美國以外地區的淨流量較去年同期成長了 79%。

Touching briefly on our financial results, which reflect the acquisition of Lexington Partners, adjusted revenues were $1.6 billion, relatively flat from the prior quarter and a decrease of 3% from the prior year quarter. Our adjusted effective fee rate increased to 39.5 basis points compared to 38.5 basis points the prior quarter. Expenses were flat quarter-over-quarter and a 1% improvement from the prior year quarter.

簡單介紹一下我們的財務業績，該業績反映了對 Lexington Partners 的收購，調整後的收入為 16 億美元，與上一季基本持平，比去年同期下降 3%。我們的調整後有效費率從上一季的 38.5 個基點上升至 39.5 個基點。支出與上一季持平，比去年同期改善了 1%。

Adjusted operating income was $567 million for the quarter, a decrease of 2% from the prior quarter and a decline of 6% from the prior year quarter. Our balance sheet position remains strong, with total cash and investments in excess of $6 billion after upfront cash consideration of almost $1 billion was paid for the acquisition of Lexington.

本季調整後營業收入為 5.67 億美元，較上一季下降 2%，較去年同期下降 6%。我們的資產負債表狀況依然強勁，在為收購 Lexington 支付了近 10 億美元的預付現金對價後，總現金和投資超過 60 億美元。

Let me wrap up by saying that over the past several years, we have significantly diversified the firm to serve more clients across a broader range of investment strategies, with deep expertise and specialization in both public and private markets through more vehicles across geographies. Although the current market landscape presents challenges for the investment industry and our firm within it, we are proud of the progress that we have made to date to help our clients in both good and challenging market conditions.

最後，我想說的是，過去幾年來，我們大幅實現了公司多元化，透過跨地區的更多投資工具，在公開市場和私人市場擁有深厚的專業知識和專業化，為更多客戶提供更廣泛的投資策略服務。儘管當前的市場格局對投資業和我們公司都帶來了挑戰，但我們對迄今為止在良好和充滿挑戰的市場條件下幫助客戶所取得的進展感到自豪。

Finally, I'd like to thank our dedicated employees, whose hard work and commitment to help people all over the world achieve the most important financial milestones of their lives.

最後，我要感謝我們敬業的員工，他們的辛勤工作和承諾幫助世界各地的人們實現他們一生中最重要的財務里程碑。

Now let's turn it over to your questions. Operator?

現在我們來回答你們的問題。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Our first question is from the line of Glenn Schorr from Evercore.

（操作員指示）我們的第一個問題來自 Evercore 的 Glenn Schorr。

So Jenny, I enjoyed the prepared remarks on the wealth management alternatives and everything that you're doing on the education front. So I'm curious, from a product standpoint, how you're thinking about just making drawdown funds available or putting retail-specific products in motion, specifically semi-liquid products like your quarterly liquidity. Because we've seen some hiccups lately as markets pull back and seeing gross sales free up. So I'm just curious how you're thinking about the products that you're bringing into that channel.

所以珍妮，我很喜歡你對財富管理替代品的準備好的評論以及你在教育方面所做的一切。因此，從產品的角度來看，我很好奇，您是如何考慮提供提取資金或推出特定零售產品，特別是像季度流動性這樣的半流動性產品。因為我們最近看到了一些小問題，例如市場回落和銷售額釋放。所以我只是好奇您是如何考慮引入該渠道的產品的。

Yes. No, thanks. I mean -- and Glenn, you know this well. Like the opportunity, obviously, in the wealth channel is tremendous, but it's really complicated, right? And we're learning that through the process of -- the first battle is to be able to get to the gatekeepers, and you're finding that there's a massive amount of education that you have to do. It's complicated to sign up clients.

是的。不，謝謝。我的意思是──格倫，你很清楚這一點。顯然，財富管道中的機會是巨大的，但它真的很複雜，對吧？我們了解到，在這過程中——第一場戰鬥就是能夠找到守門人，你會發現你必須進行大量的教育。簽約客戶很複雜。

And so we've made investments in companies like CAIS. We now have our -- several of our products on both iCapital and CAIS. And then the education piece is a big deal. And so we're actually working with CAIS through our FT Academy to actually do education in the alternatives.

因此我們對CAIS這樣的公司進行了投資。現在，我們在 iCapital 和 CAIS 上都有我們的多款產品。然後教育部分就變得非常重要了。因此，我們實際上正在透過 FT 學院與 CAIS 合作，實際開展替代方案的教育。

We have things like the BSP BDC, CPREIF is actually getting interesting traction in the RIA channel. You have to get some size before the wirehouses will put you on their platform, even if you pass their due diligence. And so it's really important that you have the relationships in the RIA channel. You may recall small acquisition that we did in the private credit space. So they'd actually -- Benefit Street Partners purchased it, but it was -- they had experience in REIT with the RIAs.

我們有像 BSP BDC 這樣的產品，CPREIF 實際上在 RIA 頻道中獲得了有趣的關注。你必須具備一定的規模，大型證券公司才會把你放到他們的平台上，即使你通過了他們的盡職調查。因此，在 RIA 管道中建立關係非常重要。您可能還記得我們在私人信貸領域進行的小額收購。所以他們實際上 — — Benefit Street Partners 購買了它，但他們在 REIT 方面有與 RIA 合作的經驗。

So there's a lot of fronts where you have to get it right to actually get the traction. But we feel like our opportunity zone fund, which is on quite a few of the big wirehouses, CPREIF, the BDCs, we even have -- on our venture fund, have managed to get that on some of the private banks. So those are the types of products. It's really more of kind of the interval fund, '40 Act fund.

因此，你必須在很多方面都做好，才能真正獲得發展動力。但我們覺得，我們的機會區基金（該基金投資於不少大型綜合公司、CPREIF、BDC）甚至我們的風險基金，已經成功地投資於一些私人銀行。這些就是產品的類型。它實際上更像是一種間隔基金，即‘40 法案基金’。

Adam, do you have anything you want to add on?

亞當，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yes. Glenn, I just might add that when we talk about the distribution of alternatives to the wealth platform, yes, that's a broad strategic effort, but each platform is a little bit different. And so I think one of the things we've been able to do well over the last few quarters is to engage with kind of the head gatekeepers of each platform to say what type of a strategy is really best for you. Some want perpetual, some want other things, some want a product where there's going to be a broad consortium of banks participating in the deal, others want something that's more bespoke for their platform. So we've really been able to be a little more specific about what we're offering on each platform, and I think that will pay significant benefit.

是的。格倫，我只想補充一點，當我們談論財富平台替代品的分配時，是的，這是一項廣泛的戰略努力，但每個平台都有點不同。因此，我認為過去幾季我們做得很好的一件事就是與每個平台的首席守門人接觸，了解哪種策略才是最適合你的。有些人想要永久性的，有些人想要其他的東西，有些人想要一種有廣泛的銀行財團參與交易的產品，其他人想要一些更適合他們的平台的東西。因此，我們確實能夠更具體地說明我們在每個平台上提供的產品/服務，我認為這將帶來巨大的利益。

I appreciate all that. Maybe just one quick follow-up. You know that the worse fixed income flows since 2000. It is what it is. The market was a bit nuts. Now that we've gotten some reprieve in terms of the rate move, the spread move as they've settled in, could we hope and should we expect that fixed income, especially U.S. taxable, settle in with those conditions?

我對此表示感謝。也許只需一次快速的跟進。你知道，自 2000 年以來，固定收益流動情況變得更糟。市場有點瘋狂。現在我們在利率變動、利差變動方面獲得了一些緩解，我們是否可以希望並且應該預期固定收益，特別是美國應稅收益，能夠在這些條件下穩定下來？

Well, interesting -- sorry, I'll start and then, Adam, you can fill in. I mean, interesting, some of our biggest gross flows are still into fixed income. So while I think there's been redemptions, and, obviously, much heavier redemptions on the retail channel than on the institutional channel, we still see strong flows into the asset class.

嗯，有趣的是 - 抱歉，我先開始，然後，亞當，你可以填寫。因此，儘管我認為存在贖回，並且顯然零售通路的贖回比機構通路的贖回要多得多，但我們仍然看到強勁的資金流入該資產類別。

And then I would just say, one thing that I'm not sure is fully appreciated, we cover the spectrum on views on -- in the fixed income market. So when you look at Brandywine, the Franklin fixed income and the Western, we actually -- their alpha generation only correlates 0.15x, right? So there's always something performing in that category.

然後我想說的是，有一件事我不確定是否被充分理解，我們涵蓋了固定收益市場的各種觀點。因此，當您查看 Brandywine、富蘭克林固定收益和 Western 時，我們實際上 - 它們的阿爾法生成相關性僅有 0.15 倍，對嗎？因此，該類別中總會有表現出色的作品。

And what you see is, whether it's insurance companies or others, there is a need for fixed income types of investments and returns and income generating. And frankly, that may be in the private markets as well as the public markets, but there's definitely demand there.

您會發現，無論是保險公司或其他公司，都需要固定收益類型的投資、回報和創收。坦白說，這可能存在於私人市場和公開市場，但那裡肯定有需求。

Adam, do you have anything to add?

亞當，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

And I would add, Jenny, that -- yes, I would add that -- a few things. One, the asset class is just more attractive flat out with higher yields, and it's less risky with the lower integration. So I think there's just a better beta to be had in the fixed income. The other thing we've seen that is on the pension side, as we see folks a little better funded at this point, looking to LDI type strategies, which we're now offering. It's another area where you might see some growth in fixed income allocation.

珍妮，我想補充一點——是的，我想補充一點——幾件事。一方面，由於收益率較高，該資產類別更具吸引力，而由於整合度較低，風險也較低。因此我認為固定收益中存在更好的貝塔係數。我們看到的另一件事是在退休金方面，我們發現人們目前的資金狀況稍好一些，正在尋求我們現在提供的 LDI 類型的策略。這是您可能會看到固定收益配置有所成長的另一個領域。

That definitely makes sense.

這絕對有道理。

The next question comes from Ken Worthington with JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的肯沃辛頓。

This is Michael Cho. I'm in for Ken today. I wanted to shift gears a little bit and ask a little bit about the recent launch of the blockchain-based money market fund. I realize it's been in the press for a little while now, but some time has passed. So I'm just curious, kind of a few things.

這是麥可趙。今天我代替肯恩。我想稍微轉換一下主題，問一些關於最近推出的基於區塊鏈的貨幣市場基金的問題。我知道這件事已經在媒體上報道了一段時間了，但已經過了一段時間了。所以我只是對一些事情感到好奇。

One, I mean, what are kind of your objectives of launching a fund on the blockchain? And then two, I think I saw it's on the Stellar chain, but -- kind of what were your considerations when you picked that one versus Ethereum or versus a private chain? And then clearly, like, again, some time has passed. Any lessons learned you'd like to share so far?

首先，你們在區塊鏈上推出基金的目標是什麼？其次，我認為我看到它是在恆星鏈上，但是——當你選擇它而不是以太坊或私有鏈時，你的考慮是什麼？然後顯然，又過了一段時間。到目前為止您想分享什麼經驗教訓嗎？

Sure. So let me get -- one, we picked Stellar at the time because Ethereum was something called proof-of-work and Stellar was proof-of-stake. And the difference, as you hear on the criticism of Bitcoin, is all about how energy -- what an energy drain it is. And that's because this concept is you have to solve algorithms to be able to post on the chain, and so that's a big energy drain. Whereas we knew that, that was going to become more of an issue. Ethereum is trying to shift to proof-of-stake, and so we ended up -- Stellar was designed as proof-of-stake, and so we selected that.

當然。那麼讓我來談談——首先，我們當時選擇 Stellar 是因為以太坊是所謂的工作量證明，而 Stellar 是權益證明。而正如你在對比特幣的批評中所聽到的，差別就在於它對能源的消耗有多大。這是因為這個概念是你必須解決演算法才能在鏈上發布，所以這會消耗大量的能源。然而我們知道，這將成為一個更大的問題。以太坊 (Ethereum) 正在嘗試轉向權益證明 (PoS)，因此我們最終將 Stellar 設計為權益證明，因此我們選擇了它。

We decided to build this money market fund, honestly, because we think there will be a convergence. Over time, these types of tokenized assets will become -- I think they'll become securities and they'll be regulated. Now there's other countries that are further ahead probably than the U.S. in this, and -- but I think that there's going to be convergence. So we wanted to make sure that we understood it, and we were able to get in front of the wave.

說實話，我們決定建立這個貨幣市場基金是因為我們認為會出現一種融合。隨著時間的推移，這些類型的代幣化資產將會變成——我認為它們會變成證券並且受到監管。現在其他國家在這方面可能比美國領先更遠，但我認為它們會趨於融合。因此，我們希望確保我們理解這一點，並且能夠走在潮流的前面。

We think, ultimately, it will drive down cost in this environment. So we'll be able to deliver the same kind of quality investment products at a lower cost when you build these types of things on the chain. And starting out with the money market fund just made a lot of sense.

我們認為，最終它將在這種環境下降低成本。因此，當你在鏈上建造這些類型的東西時，我們將能夠以更低的成本提供相同品質的投資產品。從貨幣市場基金開始是非常有意義的。

Honestly, we looked at, and we still think it, and you've already -- now you're starting to see it, that some of the products that were deemed "stable coins" that were yielding 7% and 8%, anybody who has an investment background knew that there was no way there could be a stable coin. And so we just felt like it made sense for us to come out with a money market fund.

老實說，我們研究過，我們仍然這麼認為，而且你已經——現在你開始看到它了，一些被視為「穩定貨幣」的產品收益率為 7% 和 8%，任何有投資背景的人都知道，不可能有穩定的貨幣。因此我們覺得推出貨幣市場基金是合理的。

And we worked with the SEC, I mean, literally throughout it. As we both became educated on it, it took a while, and we are an approved '40 Act money market fund. Where it goes, well, the market's going to evolve as people get more comfortable with this asset class or -- it's not even an asset class, with the technology where they can hold their tokens in a secure wallet, which is complicated in itself.

我們與美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 進行了合作，我的意思是，我們在整個過程中都進行了合作。我們花了一段時間才了解這一點，現在我們已經成為經批准的 40 法案貨幣市場基金。隨著人們對這種資產類別越來越熟悉，市場也將隨之發展——它甚至不是一種資產類別，而是有了可以將代幣存放在安全錢包中的技術，而這本身就很複雜。

And right now, there's a lot of people kind of playing around that space. But it will become more institutionalized, and we can take all of these learnings. What we built on the Stellar system can launch other '40 Act funds. So again, it was just really a way to make sure that we're understanding disruption as it comes to our industry, and that we're riding the wave forward.

目前，有很多人正在涉足這一領域。但它將變得更加製度化，我們可以學到所有這些經驗教訓。我們在恆星系統上建構的東西可以啟動其他‘40法案基金。所以，這其實只是一種確保我們了解產業顛覆性變化的方法，並確保我們能乘著潮流向前發展。

Next question comes from Dan Fannon of Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Dan Fannon。

This is actually Rick on for Dan. So I wanted to tack on to the fixed income discussion from earlier. So just looking at the data that we have available to us, and you guys released this as well, it's clear that a sizable chunk of the deterioration you guys are seeing in outflows are coming from retail. But just like thinking about the large institutional base and nature of the Western franchise, could you maybe speak on trends and conversations you're having with that client base and the platform more specifically?

這實際上是 Rick 為 Dan 做的。因此我想繼續之前的固定收益討論。因此，只要查看我們掌握的數據以及你們發布的數據，就可以清楚地看到，資金流出惡化的很大一部分來自零售業。但是，就像思考西方特許經營的龐大機構基礎和性質一樣，您能否更具體地談談您與該客戶群和平台的趨勢和對話？

Yes. I mean, a couple of things. First of all, in the past 10 years, Western has absolutely outperformed in 9 of the 10 years. And in the 1 year, they underperformed 2018, they crushed it in 2019 and made up for any underperformance. So I always like to say, be careful betting against the Western.

是的。我指的是幾件事。首先，在過去的10年裡，西方在其中9年絕對表現出色。第一年，他們的表現低於 2018 年，但在 2019 年，他們取得了巨大的成功，彌補了所有表現不佳的缺陷。因此我總是喜歡說，與西方對賭時要小心。

And as a matter of fact, while it's a little early to tell, my CFO constantly reminds me that quarter-to-date, Western is in their top decile. So they're proving out that maybe their positioning could be right. So -- but as I said, from here managing the business, we're happy that we have really diversified perspectives on end products in the fixed income space with low correlation.

事實上，雖然現在說這個還為時過早，但我的財務長不斷提醒我，本季迄今為止，西部數據仍處於前十分位。所以他們正在證明他們的定位也許是正確的。所以 — — 但正如我所說，從這裡管理業務來看，我們很高興我們對固定收益領域的終端產品擁有真正多樣化的視角，並且相關性較低。

Now institutional investors, Western has a lot of conversations with them. They understand Western. As a matter of fact, Morningstar just maintained their Gold rating and talked about how they have high conviction on the investment team and that they are an excellent investment team.

現在，Western 與機構投資者進行了許多對話。他們懂西方。事實上，晨星只是維持了他們的黃金評級，並表示他們對投資團隊有很高的信心，他們是一支優秀的投資團隊。

And so I think we'll continue to be very optimistic. I think people slowed down for now, but I wouldn't be surprised. And yet, I believe the Core, Core Plus is our top selling from a gross sales fund. So there's obviously still a lot of money going in there.

因此我認為我們會繼續保持非常樂觀。我認為人們現在已經放慢了腳步，但我不會感到驚訝。然而，我相信 Core、Core Plus 是我們銷售總額最高的基金。所以顯然仍有大量資金流入那裡。

Yes. And if you look at...

是的。如果你看一下…

I appreciate the answer.

我很感激你的回答。

Yes, we're up quarter-over-quarter. Remember that Core and Core Plus are about 1/3 of Western's total AUM. They have a lot of other things that are doing exceedingly well. And on top of that, even within the Core and Core Plus land, we've got a very significant institutional pipeline.

是的，我們的季度環比成長。請記住，Core 和 Core Plus 約佔 Western 總 AUM 的 1/3。他們還有很多其他的事情做得非常出色。除此之外，即使在核心和核心+領域，我們也擁有非常重要的機構管道。

The next question comes from Alex Blostein of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的亞歷克斯‧布洛斯坦 (Alex Blostein)。

Maybe we could start with some of the dynamics and some of the numbers around the alt products for you guys. Obviously, with Lexington coming in, there's a couple of moving pieces.

也許我們可以為大家開始介紹一下替代產品的一些動態和數字。顯然，隨著列剋星敦的加入，會出現一些變化。

So I was hoping maybe just to get a reset on what the fee paying AUM is for the alts bucket. I think you guys gave us total AUM, but I was hoping to get the fee paying AUM, the management fees that are being generated by Lexington now that it's fully in the run rate, as well as the kind of the total alts bucket.

因此，我希望也許只是重置一下付費 AUM 的替代桶數。我想你們給了我們總的 AUM，但我希望獲得付費 AUM，即萊剋星頓現在完全在運行率中產生的管理費，以及總替代資產的數量。

And then on Lexington specifically, any updates you could provide us with from a fundraising perspective? I think they're in the market with Fund 10. How that's going, what the expectations are when that fund AUM will start coming into the run rate?

然後具體到列剋星敦，您能從籌款的角度向我們提供一些最新消息嗎？我認為他們已經進入了基金 10 的市場。

Yes.

是的。

Sure. I'll take one.

當然。我要一個。

Okay. Go ahead.

好的。前進。

Do you want to start, Jenny, okay?

你想開始嗎，珍妮，可以嗎？

No, no, you go ahead.

不不不，你先走吧。

Okay. Alex, on the management fee income from -- or the management fee revenue from the alternative asset managers that we have, we'll likely aggregate something like, on an annualized basis, $1.2 billion to $1.3 billion. I think we've communicated that in the past, and that's consistent with what we said. That's about 50% up from the previous year. And that excludes performance fees, of course, as we've explained. So that's where we're at on the management fee revenues.

好的。亞歷克斯，從我們的另類資產管理公司獲得的管理費收入，以年率計算，大概能達到 12 億到 13 億美元。我想我們過去已經傳達過這一點，這與我們所說的話是一致的。這比上一年增長了約 50%。當然，正如我們已經解釋過的，這不包括績效費。這就是我們的管理費收入。

And I would say, on the Lexington, that they are on schedule despite the environment on their fundraising. So as...

我想說的是，關於列剋星敦項目，儘管他們的籌款環境不好，但他們仍按計劃進行。那麼...

Yes. And then -- and then if you're looking for the -- for an idea of what the overall alternative asset business is relative to the size of our franchise, if we pro forma the business for Alcentra, for instance, we are about 19% of our assets under management would be in the alternative asset space, 21% of revenue roughly and probably up to something like 1/4 of our operating income will be from alternative assets as a whole.

是的。然後 - 如果您想了解整體另類資產業務相對於我們特許經營規模的情況，如果我們以 Alcentra 的業務為例，我們管理的資產中約有 19% 將在另類資產領域，大約 21% 的收入以及可能高達我們營業收入的 1/4 左右將來自整體另類資產。

The next question comes from Patrick Davitt from Autonomous Research.

下一個問題來自 Autonomous Research 的 Patrick Davitt。

There have been a lot of questions out there about the quality of the Alcentra business, given what looks like fairly stagnant AUM over the last few years, obviously, some high-profile employee losses. I understand it looks like you've got a very good price relative to what they're hoping to get in and, obviously, put a lot of protections into that price. But could you flesh out a bit how you see the process of running a ship that aren't getting back up to the level of growth we're expecting from a private credit manager?

由於過去幾年 Alcentra 的資產管理規模似乎停滯不前，而且顯然出現了一些引人注目的員工流失，因此外界對 Alcentra 業務品質有許多疑問。我知道看起來你給出的價格相對於他們希望得到的價格來說已經非常優惠了，而且很明顯，你在這個價格中設置了很多保護措施。但是，您能否稍微詳細說明一下，對於一家未能恢復到我們期望的私人信貸經理的增長水平的公司，您是如何看待經營該業務的？

Yes. Well, first, I mean, the turnover that happened obviously happened all before the deal was announced. It was really at the senior level, and I think that the area of concern was the direct lending. And the rest of the business has been growing very well and has had very good performance.

是的。首先，我的意思是，顯然發生的營業額都是在交易宣布之前發生的。這確實是一個高層次的問題，我認為令人關注的領域是直接貸款。其餘業務也成長良好，業績表現優異。

And so I think it's important to block the noise around that, but I think that it's important to understand that was just at a very senior level, which is why there's an opportunity with the fact that we can roll it in with Benefit Street Partners that already has a good senior leadership team.

因此，我認為屏蔽周圍的噪音很重要，但我認為重要的是要理解這只是在非常高層次上的事情，這就是為什麼我們可以與已經擁有優秀高級領導團隊的 Benefit Street Partners 合作，從而有機會。

And then one of the things that I think we understand really well and why we've been successful in acquisitions is we understand that you're buying an investment team and their investment process, and so it's important that you have retention. And so we've built in retention to ensure that we minimize any kind of -- the future, anybody leaving in the future.

我認為我們非常了解的一件事以及我們之所以在收購中取得成功的原因是，我們知道你購買的是一支投資團隊及其投資流程，因此保留他們非常重要。因此，我們建立了保留機制，以確保最大限度地減少未來任何人的離職。

I think that what's really exciting is that we are -- our distribution in Europe has continued to improve. And now you take a product like this that we think that -- our distribution is incredibly excited about having private credit to be able to sell. And so being able to bring these 2 things together, we are very, very optimistic. So I don't know, Adam, anything else you want to add?

我認為真正令人興奮的是，我們在歐洲的分銷管道持續改善。現在您拿出這樣的產品，我們認為—我們的經銷商對能夠銷售私人信貸感到非常興奮。因此，對於能夠將這兩件事結合起來，我們非常非常樂觀。所以我不知道，亞當，您還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yes. I would just say that Alcentra brings 2 things that, one, is a product capability that's very European-specific in addition to other products, but that really helps us out with our Alternative franchise and a real distribution capability as well. Both of those things are additive.

是的。我只想說 Alcentra 帶來了兩樣東西，一是除了其他產品之外，其產品能力非常具有歐洲特色，但這確實有助於我們的替代特許經營和真正的分銷能力。這兩件事都是附加的。

I'll just end by saying, Patrick, that as you know, we study M&A pretty hard in the asset management arena, including both traditional and alternative assets. And we felt that globalizing, as Jenny just mentioned, globalizing our alternative credit capabilities by adding Europe is very important, given the growth potential in -- across that region, frankly, both the U.K. and Europe.

最後，派崔克，我只想說，如你所知，我們在資產管理領域對併購進行了相當深入的研究，包括傳統資產和另類資產。正如珍妮剛才所提到的，我們認為全球化，透過增加歐洲來實現我們的替代信貸能力的全球化是非常重要的，因為坦白說，考慮到英國和歐洲地區都具有成長潛力。

And we concluded, while we like to grow things organically ourselves, it's our #1 priority is always to grow organically where we can. There are some things that just take too long to become a leader. Too long to grow, too long to be relevant, frankly. And in our opinion, it would have taken us perhaps a decade to create what Alcentra has become, just like it's taken 15 years to become what Benefit Street Partners has become. And we just concluded that this was the best way to become a true global leader in alternative credit. So that's why we did what we did.

我們得出的結論是，雖然我們喜歡自己進行有機種植，但我們的首要任務始終是盡可能地進行有機種植。有些事情，要成為領導者，就需要花費太長時間。坦白說，成長的時間太長，與現實脫節的時間太長。我們認為，我們可能需要十年的時間才能將 Alcentra 打造成為如今的樣子，就像 Benefit Street Partners 花了 15 年的時間才成為如今的樣子一樣。我們剛剛得出結論，這是成為替代信貸領域真正的全球領導者的最佳途徑。這就是我們這麼做的原因。

And to your point on price, the price is driven a little bit around some of the uncertainty in the overall market. But also it's just a function of how M&A can be structured, and we've done that very carefully. And we've got a great partnership in bank of New York that has a lot of upside participation in the growth in the growth of the business, and we expect there to be growth. As Jenny mentioned, there are multiple factors, multiple strategies at Alcentra, and most of them have grown quite nicely, and we expect that to continue post-closing and into calendar 2023.

至於您提到的價格，價格在一定程度上受到整體市場的一些不確定性的影響。但這也只是併購結構的功能，我們對此非常謹慎。我們與紐約銀行建立了良好的合作夥伴關係，該銀行在業務成長方面具有很大的積極參與空間，我們預計業務也會成長。正如珍妮 (Jenny) 所說，Alcentra 有多種因素、多種策略，其中大多數都發展得相當不錯，我們預計這種趨勢將在交易結束後持續到 2023 年。

And I'd just add, during the due diligence process, as you can imagine, we checked on the reputation of the firm with the consultants and institutions, and we're very comfortable with that. We think they have a -- they still, despite some of the headline stories around turnover, have an excellent reputation in the market.

我想補充一點，你可以想像，在盡職調查過程中，我們向顧問和機構核實了該公司的聲譽，我們對此非常滿意。我們認為，儘管有一些關於營業額的頭條新聞，但他們在市場上仍然享有良好的聲譽。

Very helpful. And just one quick follow-up. Would you be willing to give the total AUM in kind of this core flagship strategies at Western? There's so much of institutional that we can't see. I don't think we've got an update on that in a while.

非常有幫助。最後再跟進一下。您願意提供西方這種核心旗艦策略的總 AUM 嗎？有太多的製度是我們看不見的。我認為我們已經很久沒有收到關於此事的更新消息了。

The Core Plus strategy or Core and Core Plus strategy?

Core Plus 策略還是 Core 和 Core Plus 策略？

Core and Core Plus, yes.

是的，Core 和 Core Plus。

Core and Core Plus together is about $150 billion approximately at Western.

在西方國家，Core 和 Core Plus 的總價值約為 1500 億美元。

The next question comes from Stephanie Ma of Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Stephanie Ma。

This is Stephanie on for Mike Cyprys. My first question is on expense and performance fee outlook. So hoping you can just give us an update or mark-to-market on expenses given lower AUM levels? And then performance fees, that continues to be much stronger than you had guided. So any color on that outlook would be helpful as well.

這是 Mike Cyprys 的 Stephanie。我的第一個問題是關於費用和績效費的前景。所以希望您能為我們提供更新資訊或以市價計算的較低 AUM 等級的費用？然後是績效費用，這仍然比你指導的要高得多。因此，任何關於該觀點的顏色都會有幫助。

Yes. So on overall expenses, I think in the last call, last quarter, we guided to $3.9 billion to $3.95 billion of adjusted operating expenses for the full fiscal year ended 9/30. The update to that, I would say, is that we expect to be on the lower end of that. So instead of just saying $3.9 billion to $3.95 billion, we expect to be closer to $3.9 billion and then to $3.95 billion. And remember, that includes Lexington.

是的。因此，就整體費用而言，我想在上一次電話會議中，也就是上個季度，我們預計截至 9 月 30 日的整個財年的調整後營運費用為 39 億美元至 39.5 億美元。我想說的是，最新情況是，我們預計該數字將處於較低水平。因此，我們預計該數字不會只是 39 億美元到 39.5 億美元，而是更接近 39 億美元，然後再接近 39.5 億美元。請記住，其中包括列剋星敦。

So we -- a couple of quarters ago, I think I explained that we were in the $3.9 billion to $3.95 billion, excluding performance fees and excluding Lexington. Last quarter, we said $3.9 billion to $3.95 billion, excluding performance fees, but including Lexington. This quarter, we're saying $3.9 billion to $3.95 billion, excluding performance fees, including Lexington and would be on the lower end, we believe, all else remaining equal for the year.

因此，幾個季度前，我想我解釋過我們的收入在 39 億美元到 39.5 億美元之間，不包括績效費和列剋星敦。上個季度，我們預計營收為 39 億美元至 39.5 億美元，不包括績效費，但包括列剋星敦。本季度，我們預計收入為 39 億美元至 39.5 億美元，不包括績效費（包括列剋星敦），我們認為，如果今年其他所有因素保持不變，收入將處於較低水平。

In terms of specifics around that, I think last quarter, I guided to the different line items, and we'd expect those to be approximately the same. So G&A to be approximately $140 million, occupancy around $57 million and IS&T to be around $125 million, and all those things are obviously inclusive of Lexington Partners. And then our comp ratio, we've guided to around 45% for the year, and we expect that to also be at 45% for the year.

關於具體細節，我想上個季度我已經對不同的項目進行了指導，我們預計它們大致相同。因此，G&A 費用約為 1.4 億美元，佔用費用約為 5,700 萬美元，IS&T 費用約為 1.25 億美元，所有這些顯然都包括了 Lexington Partners 的費用。然後，我們預計今年的薪酬比率將達到 45% 左右，我們預計今年的薪酬比率也將達到 45%。

In terms of performance fees, we don't guide on performance fees, frankly. I mean, the way I've communicated this in previous calls is to say that we think, for modeling purposes, $30 million to $40 million is reasonable. Obviously, we acknowledge the fact that we've been higher than that for a few quarters now. But again, it's very hard to calculate where our performance fees are going to be.

至於績效費，坦白說，我們不對績效費提供指導。我的意思是，我在之前的電話會議中傳達這一點的方式是，我們認為，出於建模目的， 3000 萬到 4000 萬美元是合理的。顯然，我們承認，目前我們已經連續幾季處於高於這一水平的狀態。但同樣，很難計算我們的績效費用將會是多少。

But all I'd say is that, obviously, the reason why performance fees have gone up is because we're performing well in a number of our asset classes, both across real estate and credit. And other areas, frankly, we've crossed about 9 of our specialist investment management companies, so that's concentrated maybe in three. It's because we're just getting larger in alternative assets so the potential to earn more performance fees is going up as we continue to increase our alternative asset business.

但我想說的是，顯然績效費用上漲的原因是我們在房地產和信貸等多個資產類別中表現良好。在其他領域，坦白說，我們已經與大約 9 家專業投資管理公司進行了合作，所以可能集中在 3 家。這是因為我們在另類資產方面的規模正在擴大，因此隨著我們繼續增加另類資產業務，賺取更多績效費用的潛力也在上升。

But I'm sticking with (inaudible)...

但我堅持（聽不清楚）......

Great. That's very helpful. If I can just squeeze another follow-up in here. We noticed a reference to the China JV of $12 billion of AUM. So hoping you can expand on some of the initiatives there. And are there any plans to raise your ownership? And then what sort of growth are you seeing in that region?

偉大的。這非常有幫助。如果我可以在這裡擠出時間再跟進。我們注意到其中提到了中國合資企業的 120 億美元資產管理規模。所以希望你們可以擴大那裡的一些措施。有什麼計劃來提高你們的所有權嗎？那麼您看到該地區出現了什麼樣的成長？

So I believe that we have said that we would like to extend our ownership in there now that the regulations have changed, and so we're in discussions to do that. We also have a wholly owned WFOE, which would give us other optionality if that -- we were not able to buy 100%.

所以我相信我們已經說過，既然法規已經改變，我們想擴大我們在那裡的所有權，所以我們正在討論這樣做。我們還有一家全資外商獨資企業，如果我們無法 100% 購買的話，這將為我們提供其他選擇。

Look, China is a massive, important market. We were early as far as firms, asset managers who did joint venture partners. We have unbelievably excellent performance, have had really stable investment teams there. We hired Dr. Ben Meng, who is our Chairman of Asia Pacific and is well connected. And we -- it has been a profitable business for us. We think it can be much more meaningful as far as its contributions over the long run.

你看，中國是一個龐大且重要的市場。就公司和資產管理公司而言，我們是較早與合資夥伴合作的公司。我們的業績非常出色，並且擁有非常穩定的投資團隊。我們聘請了 Ben Meng 博士，他是我們的亞太區主席，人脈廣泛。而且我們——這對我們來說是一項有利可圖的業務。我們認為，從長遠來看，它的貢獻會更有意義。

Next question comes from the line of Alex Blostein of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的亞歷克斯‧布洛斯坦 (Alex Blostein)。

A couple of quick ones here. So I guess, just going back to performance fee discussion for a second. Matt, given the fact that it's gotten a bigger portion of the overall business model, maybe you can frame to us sort of the sources of performance fees that you saw this quarter. And any kind of ideas on performance fee accruals that could be realized over time as investments kind of crystallize? Or just to kind of get a better sense of what that -- the bucket of potential performance fees could look like going forward?

這裡有幾個簡單的問題。所以我想，我們再回到績效費的討論。馬特，考慮到它在整個商業模式中佔據了更大的比重，也許你可以向我們介紹本季績效費的來源。隨著投資逐漸具體化，對於可以隨著時間推移而實現的績效費用累積，您有什麼想法嗎？或者只是為了更了解未來潛在的績效費用會是什麼樣子？

Yes. I mean, a good portion of the increased performance fees quarter-over-quarter has been from our real estate franchise, Clarion Partners, where the performance has been outstanding. So I would say, probably -- yes, a good 60% of it or something like that and then probably a higher percentage of the increasing performance fees that we've had is, frankly, just from performance thresholds being met and quarterly realizations of that performance has made the performance fees action. So that's the -- I'd say that's the primary source of the increase in performance fees.

是的。我的意思是，季度環比增長的績效費很大一部分來自於我們的房地產特許經營權 Clarion Partners，該部門的業績非常出色。因此，我想說，可能 - 是的，其中有 60% 左右或類似的比例，然後可能我們所增加的績效費用中更高比例的部分，坦率地說，只是因為達到了績效門檻，並且該績效的季度實現使得績效費用得以實施。所以，我認為這是績效費增加的主要原因。

But I wouldn't want to understate the performance of our credit business also that has led to performance fees and performance fee increases over the last 2 or 3 quarters, in particular. The -- it's really a combination of realizations, quarterly performance fee thresholds and annual performance fee thresholds. Maybe it's helpful to say that we think that our performance fees will probably peak at the calendar year-end, so that would be the end of our first quarter.

但我不想低估我們的信貸業務的表現，這導致了績效費的增加，特別是過去 2 或 3 個季度。這其實是實現、季度績效費門檻和年度績效費門檻的組合。也許這樣說是有幫助的，我們認為我們的績效費用可能會在日曆年末達到峰值，所以那將是我們的第一季的結束。

And then perhaps another useful point is out about $127 million this quarter, approximately 70% of it is specifically quarterly performance fees. So you might get to argue that something between $60 million, $70 million could, if we have exactly the same performance next quarter or this quarter. Yes, again, I'm not guiding you this way for modeling purpose. I've already explained how I'd look at that. But you could argue that we could at least get up to $60 million, $70 million if we were to repeat that.

也許另一個有用的點是本季約 1.27 億美元，其中約 70％是季度績效費。因此，您可能會爭辯說，如果我們下個季度或本季的業績完全相同，那麼收入可能會在 6,000 萬美元到 7,000 萬美元之間。是的，再說一次，我這樣引導你並不是為了建模目的。我已經解釋過我將如何看待這一點。但你可能會說，如果我們重複這個做法，我們至少可以籌集到 6,000 萬美元、7,000 萬美元。

Yes. Okay. I got you. That's helpful. And then another quick one for me just around the balance sheet. So lots of moving pieces, obviously, Lexington payment came out. You guys have contingencies coming up as well. How are you thinking about sort of the discretionary cash balance today?

是的。好的。我接到你了。這很有幫助。然後我還有一個關於資產負債表的快速問題。有很多事情在發生變動，顯然，列剋星敦的付款已經出來了。你們也面臨突發事件。您今天對可自由支配的現金餘額有什麼看法？

So if you were to think about maybe both cash and investments, and you would say, okay, how much of that is sort of truly available for corporate purposes or whatever else? And how much do you guys think you're going to need to use towards future GP co-investment or GP balance sheet commitments, given the fact that your illiquids aren't getting bigger over the next couple of years here?

因此，如果您考慮現金和投資，您會說，好吧，其中有多少真正可以用於公司目的或其他目的？考慮到未來幾年你們的流動性不會增加，你們認為未來需要使用多少資金進行 GP 共同投資或 GP 資產負債表承諾？

Yes. So firstly, out of our roughly $2.6 billion of investments, let's say half of that is very liquid, highly liquid, like well over $1 billion of it is highly liquid. But it's been important to see new funds in order to accelerate access to distribution opportunities. I think we've explained that we've got a very good multiple on that seeding in terms of the AUM that's been created from it. So that's sort of number one.

是的。首先，在我們大約 26 億美元的投資中，假設其中一半是流動性非常強的，例如其中超過 10 億美元的流動性非常強。但為了加速獲得分銷機會，新基金的引進非常重要。我想我們已經解釋過了，從由此產生的 AUM 來看，我們在種子資金上獲得了非常好的倍數。這是最重要的一點。

So we wouldn't want to liquidate that, but we can recirculate that. And we've gotten much more disciplined, but not just letting seed capital sit in funds for like 5 years. So every year, we're able to circulate several hundred million dollars, I would say, out of the $2.6 billion. And a portion of that recirculation, Alex, is going into more of the alternative asset area. We probably have $800 million or something like that now invested across the alternative asset businesses that we have, which is more longer term in investments versus the rest that's more short-term seed capital.

因此，我們不想將其清算，但我們可以將其重新循環。我們已經變得更加自律，但我們不會讓種子資金在基金中擱置 5 年之久。因此，我想說，每年我們能夠流通 26 億美元中的幾億美元。亞歷克斯，其中一部分再循環資金將流向更多的另類資產領域。我們現在可能已經在另類資產業務上投資了 8 億美元或類似的金額，這些投資是長期的，而其餘的則是短期種子資金。

So number one, we're getting better at circulating it even without increasing the $2.6 billion. But number two, every year, we are earmarking a meaningful amount of our income and our cash, if we need to, to continue to invest in GP-level alternative asset opportunities.

因此，第一，即使沒有增加 26 億美元，我們的流通能力也在不斷提高。但第二，如果需要的話，我們每年都會撥出相當數量的收入和現金，繼續投資於 GP 級別的另類資產機會。

I should say that we -- when we provide that commitment, we also allow our senior employees at both the alternative asset business and across Franklin to invest, and we're getting so much interest from employees to invest in these areas that the actual commitment of Franklin and making off the balance sheet is reducing versus increasing. But again, if we -- we don't have that interest because of general market condition or something, Franklin is there, and we could expect that to increase meaningfully.

我應該說，當我們做出這項承諾時，我們也允許另類資產業務和整個富蘭克林的高級員工進行投資，而且員工對這些領域的投資興趣濃厚，以至於富蘭克林的實際承諾和資產負債表收益正在減少而不是在增加。但是，如果我們因為整體市場狀況或其他原因而沒有那麼大的興趣，那麼富蘭克林就在那裡，我們可以預期它將會大幅增加。

In terms of the amount of cash that we think we have, so let's say, excess cash or cash available to do further investing, and then including M&A, put that in excess of $1 billion. But obviously, in this current market condition, we are very cautious, very disciplined. And we think having cash on hand for opportunistic situations is going to be a competitive advantage of ours. So that's how we look at cash. We feel that we're in a good position with the around $6 billion or more of cash and investments. Disciplined with circulating the investments, adding to it carefully each year.

就我們認為擁有的現金數量而言，可以這麼說，多餘的現金或可用於進一步投資的現金（包括併購）超過 10 億美元。但顯然，在目前的市場條件下，我們非常謹慎、非常自律。我們認為，手頭上有現金以應對各種機會將成為我們的競爭優勢。這就是我們看待現金的方式。我們認為，憑藉約 60 億美元或更多的現金和投資，我們處於有利地位。嚴格控制投資的流通，每年謹慎增加投資。

And with the cash piece, you mentioned upcoming acquisition-related payments. You're right, that's why we're conservative with it because we do have $1.6 billion of acquisition-related payments over the next 4 years. We also have $1.4 billion of debt over the next 5 years coming due, which we can refinance, but we also like to be able to delever where it's -- when debt is getting more expensive. So that's how we look at that.

關於現金部分，您提到了即將到來的收購相關付款。你說得對，這就是我們對此持保守態度的原因，因為未來 4 年我們確實有 16 億美元的收購相關付款。我們還有 14 億美元的債務在未來 5 年到期，我們可以再融資，但當債務變得越來越昂貴時，我們也希望能夠去槓桿化。這就是我們看待這個問題的方式。

And the next question comes from Brennan Hawken of UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀的布倫南·霍肯。

This is Adam Beatty in for Brennan this morning. Kind of a 2-parter, a multi-parter on alts distribution. In particular, we're wondering about some of the nuances of alts distribution in the European market, particularly for European retail and what you're seeing there? And then in kind of a separate angle, just wanted to get your thoughts on how much sort of product and distribution crops over you're expecting between Alcentra and BSP?

這是亞當比蒂 (Adam Beatty) 今天早上代替布倫南 (Brennan) 做的。有點像是 2 部分，或 alts 分發的多部分。特別是，我們想知道歐洲市場上替代產品分銷的一些細微差別，特別是對於歐洲零售業，以及您在那裡看到了什麼？然後從另一個角度來說，我只是想聽聽您對 Alcentra 和 BSP 之間產品和分銷作物的預期看法？

So I think -- I'm not sure I know sort of the detailed nuances, other than there's a couple of just trends that are relevant everywhere for all, right? And we've talked about it before, where you're just seeing companies waiting longer to go public. You're seeing less opportunities on equities to invest in, that universe has shrunk. I think banks -- Basel III capital requirements have made it such that banks are much more careful with who they're choosing to lend to, which has created this proliferation of private credit.

所以我認為——我不確定我是否了解其中的細微差別，除了有幾個趨勢對所有人來說都是相關的，對嗎？我們之前也討論過這個問題，你會看到公司等待上市的時間越來越長。你會發現，股票投資的機會越來越少，這個領域已經縮小了。我認為，巴塞爾協議 III 的資本要求使得銀行在選擇貸款對象時更加謹慎，從而導致了私人信貸的激增。

I think that is a direct response to some of the capital changes that have happened in the banking industry. And so you see meaningful excess returns in the private markets. And there is such an opportunity to naturally bring that to the wealth channel.

我認為這是對銀行業發生的一些資本變化的直接回應。因此，您會看到私人市場出現有意義的超額回報。並且有這樣的機會可以自然而然地將其帶入財富管道。

The problem is it's a bit like running with scissors, where you've got these illiquid assets to often people who require it. And so creating those types of vehicles is important and being really aware about how you do that. And so that's the type of thing our product development team is working on.

問題在於，這有點像拿著剪刀跑，你把這些非流動資產交給那些經常需要它的人。因此，製造這些類型的車輛非常重要，並且要真正了解如何做到這一點。這就是我們的產品開發團隊正在研究的事情。

And then same as in the U.S., it requires just a massive amount of education plus the complexity of things like signing up for these. And so big opportunity there, but it is -- it's a lot of blocking and tackling that happens before you really start to see the traction.

和美國一樣，它需要大量的教育，再加上諸如註冊等複雜的事宜。這裡面有很大的機會，但是在你真正開始看到進展之前，還需要進行大量的阻礙和解決。

I think in the U.S., we are finally starting. I mean, we've been talking about this for 2 years. It's a core priority, and we're only now starting to finally see that traction. We think it's going to be similar -- again, we all say Europe, but the reality is every country is different. You might have EU regulations, but then they get interpreted. And so it's actually even more complicated to bring the customized products to those markets.

我認為在美國我們終於開始了。我的意思是我們已經討論這個問題兩年了。這是核心優先事項，我們現在才開始看到這種牽引力。我們認為情況會類似——再說一次，我們都說歐洲，但事實上每個國家都是不同的。你可能有歐盟法規，但它們會被解釋。因此，將客製化產品推向這些市場實際上更加複雜。

Adam, anything you want to add to that?

亞當，你還有什麼要補充嗎？

Yes. I would add that if you think about all of the transactions that Franklin Templeton has done, one of the real hallmarks of them has been a lack of overlap in product. As you get larger, that gets harder and harder to have zero overlap. But in general, we feel really, really good about the transactions we're doing and how little overlap there is across the product set. I think there's also a real advantage of having a regional specific alternatives manager, which means that those products will be even more geared towards the local market.

是的。我想補充一點，如果你考慮富蘭克林鄧普頓所做的所有交易，你會發現它們的真正標誌之一就是產品缺乏重疊。隨著規模越來越大，實現零重疊變得越來越困難。但總體而言，我們對正在進行的交易以及產品集之間的重疊程度非常小感到非常非常滿意。我認為擁有特定區域替代品經理還有一個真正的優勢，這意味著這些產品將更適合當地市場。

Two other comments I would add is that within Europe, there's really 2 different pieces of the -- of bringing alternatives to the wealth channel. One is really at the ultra-high net worth level, and the other is more at the mass affluent level. We want to make sure we address both. And then finally, I would say, sustainability continues to be a big trend around the world, but especially in Europe. So in Europe, to the extent that you can add sustainability to your alternatives in the wealth channels, that's where I think the real growth will be.

我要補充的另外兩則評論是，在歐洲，實際上存在兩個不同的部分——為財富管道帶來替代方案。一個是真正超高淨值水平，另一個則更屬於大眾富裕水平。我們希望確保解決這兩個問題。最後，我想說，永續性在世界各地仍然是一個大趨勢，尤其是在歐洲。因此在歐洲，只要你可以在財富管道的替代方案中添加永續性，我認為就會實現真正的成長。

And to answer your question about BSP versus Alcentra, very little overlap there.

回答您關於 BSP 與 Alcentra 的問題，兩者重疊之處很少。

Yes. And so are you planning to sort of be able to cross-distribute that? Is it similar to what you've done with Legg Mason's legacy?

是的。那麼，您是否計劃以某種方式進行交叉分發？這與您對 Legg Mason 遺產所做的處理是否類似？

I mean, yes -- sorry, there's a little overlap, Adam. But the opportunity to work together, whether it's on transactions, flow with -- from a distribution perspective, helping raise capital together. I mean, there's really meaningful opportunities on a global scale with the 2 together. And obviously, the relationships across 2 are also complementary, so we think there could be some really interesting opportunities there as they work together.

我的意思是，是的 - 抱歉，有一點重疊，亞當。但無論是在交易方面，還是從分銷的角度來看，合作的機會都有助於共同籌集資金。我的意思是，如果兩國聯合起來，將在全球帶來非常有意義的機會。顯然，2 之間的關係也是互補的，因此我們認為，他們合作時可能會出現一些非常有趣的機會。

That's perfect -- sorry, go ahead.

太好了——抱歉，請繼續。

Okay. Well, I was just going to say, BSP was very, very U.S.-focused, right? And so -- and Alcentra had very little footprint in the U.S. A little bit, I think, on CLOs and things. And so Europeans tend to like to buy -- everybody loves to cheer for their home team, so Europeans tend to like to buy European private credit as opposed it's much harder if you can even do it to sell U.S. private credit into Europe.

好的。好吧，我只是想說，BSP 非常非常關注美國，對嗎？所以 — Alcentra 在美國幾乎沒有什麼業務。因此，歐洲人傾向於購買——每個人都喜歡為自己的球隊加油，所以歐洲人傾向於購買歐洲私人信貸，相比之下，即使你能夠將美國私人信貸賣到歐洲，也要困難得多。

And so there can be global products. You can have some of the deals worked on together from a team, some of the research can be shared. But the good news is it was really hard for BSP to sell their products into Europe, and now we have excellent private credit to sell into Europe and even Asia.

這樣才能有全球化的產品。你可以讓團隊一起完成一些交易，也可以分享一些研究成果。但好消息是，巴新銀行曾經很難將產品賣到歐洲，現在我們擁有優質的私人信貸可以賣到歐洲甚至亞洲。

Thank you. this concludes today's Q&A session. I would now like to hand the call back over to Jenny Johnson, Franklin's President and CEO, for final comments.

謝謝。今天的問答環節到此結束。現在，我想將電話轉回給富蘭克林總裁兼執行長珍妮·約翰遜，請她發表最後的評論。

Great. Well, I just want to thank everybody for participating in the call today. And once again, I want to thank our employees for their hard work and remaining focused on our clients, particularly in this type of market environment, and also for supporting each other. We look forward to speaking to you guys again next quarter. And I'd just say enjoy the rest of your summer and stay healthy. Thanks, everybody.

偉大的。好吧，我只想感謝大家今天參加電話會議。我再次感謝我們的員工的辛勤工作和對客戶的持續關注，特別是在這樣的市場環境下，也感謝他們相互支持。我們期待下個季度再次與你們交談。我只想說，享受剩下的夏天並保持健康。謝謝大家。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。