富蘭克林資源 (BEN) 2022 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Franklin Resources Conference Call for the quarter end June 30, 2022. Hello. My name is Daniel, and I will be your call operator today. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

歡迎參加 2022 年 6 月 30 日季度末的富蘭克林資源電話會議。您好。我的名字是丹尼爾，今天我將成為您的電話接線員。提醒一下，本次會議正在錄製中。 （操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Selene Oh, Head of Investor Relations for Franklin Resources. You may begin.

我現在想將會議轉交給您的主持人，富蘭克林資源公司投資者關係主管 Selene Oh。你可以開始了。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today to discuss our quarterly results.

早上好，感謝您今天加入我們討論我們的季度業績。

Statements made on this conference call regarding Franklin Resources Inc., which are not historical facts, are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These forward-looking statements involve a number of known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from any future results expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. These and other risks, uncertainties and other important factors are just described in more detail in Franklin's recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including in the Risk Factors and the MD&A sections of Franklin's most recent 10-K and 10-Q filings.

本次電話會議上關於富蘭克林資源公司的聲明並非歷史事實，屬於 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的前瞻性聲明。這些前瞻性聲明涉及許多已知和未知的風險，可能導致實際結果與此類前瞻性陳述所表達或暗示的任何未來結果存在重大差異的不確定性和其他重要因素。這些和其他風險、不確定性和其他重要因素在富蘭克林最近提交給證券交易委員會的文件中進行了更詳細的描述，包括在富蘭克林最近提交的 10-K 和 10-Q 文件的風險因素和 MD&A 部分。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Jenny Johnson, our President and Chief Executive Officer.

現在我想把電話轉給我們的總裁兼首席執行官珍妮約翰遜。

Thank you, Selene. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today to discuss Franklin Templeton's third fiscal quarter results. Matthew Nicholls, our CFO and COO; and Adam Spector, our Head of Global Distribution, are on the call with me.

謝謝你，賽琳娜。大家好，感謝您今天加入我們討論富蘭克林鄧普頓第三財季業績。 Matthew Nicholls，我們的首席財務官兼首席運營官；我們的全球分銷主管 Adam Spector 正在與我通話。

Since January, macroeconomic and geopolitical factors have contributed to global financial markets experiencing a period of volatility not witnessed in decades, with substantial drawdowns in both equities and fixed income markets. These declines have challenged investor sentiment and industry flows, particularly in fixed income. While our assets under management and flows were impacted by these industry-wide pressures, we continue to benefit from a diversified mix of assets. As investors look to reposition their portfolios, we've seen interest in our Alternative and Multi-Asset strategies, which both experienced strong net inflows during the quarter.

自 1 月以來，宏觀經濟和地緣政治因素導致全球金融市場經歷了幾十年未見的動盪時期，股票和固定收益市場均出現大幅回落。這些下跌對投資者情緒和行業流動構成了挑戰，特別是在固定收益領域。雖然我們管理的資產和流動受到這些全行業壓力的影響，但我們繼續受益於多元化的資產組合。隨著投資者尋求重新定位他們的投資組合，我們看到了對我們的另類和多資產策略的興趣，這兩個策略在本季度都經歷了強勁的淨流入。

In addition, notwithstanding flow pressures in fixed income, investor interest remains robust across the asset class. Over the past few years, we've been very deliberate in transforming our company by expanding our investment capabilities and deepening our presence in key markets and channels. This diversification, combined with our financial flexibility, serves us well across market cycles and is creating broader sources of revenue, positioning our company for future success.

此外，儘管固定收益存在流動壓力，但投資者對整個資產類別的興趣仍然強勁。在過去的幾年裡，我們通過擴大我們的投資能力和深化我們在關鍵市場和渠道的存在來非常謹慎地改造我們的公司。這種多元化與我們的財務靈活性相結合，為我們在整個市場週期中提供了良好的服務，並創造了更廣泛的收入來源，為我們公司未來的成功奠定了基礎。

This quarter, we continued to make progress building our Alternative Asset business, which is less correlated to public markets and a source of increasing client demand. We now have specialist investment managers that represent a meaningful portion of the key Alternative categories.

本季度，我們繼續在建設另類資產業務方面取得進展，該業務與公開市場的相關性較低，並且是客戶需求增加的來源。我們現在擁有專業的投資經理，他們代表了關鍵另類類別的重要部分。

On April 1, we closed the acquisition of Lexington Partners, a leader in secondary private equity where current markets create further interesting opportunities. At the end of May, we announced the acquisition of Alcentra, and we are pleased to welcome the Alcentra team to Franklin Templeton. This acquisition was an opportunity for us to enter the European alternative credit sector at meaningful scale and globalize our current U.S. alternative credit business, Benefit Street Partners. As one of the largest European credit and private debt managers, Alcentra has approximately $38 billion in AUM, with global expertise across a broad array of credit strategies.

4 月 1 日，我們完成了對 Lexington Partners 的收購，後者是二級私募股權領域的領導者，當前市場創造了更多有趣的機會。 5 月底，我們宣布收購 Alcentra，我們很高興地歡迎 Alcentra 團隊加入富蘭克林鄧普頓。此次收購是我們以有意義的規模進入歐洲替代信貸領域並使我們目前的美國替代信貸業務 Benefit Street Partners 全球化的機會。作為歐洲最大的信貸和私人債務管理公司之一，Alcentra 擁有約 380 億美元的資產管理規模，在廣泛的信貸策略方面擁有全球專業知識。

Given the current challenging market conditions, we are pleased to have carefully structured the transaction to help mitigate risks. Alcentra has a strong team that will benefit from the scale, stability and cultural alignment of being part of a combined alternative credit specialist investment manager, led by Benefit Street Partners' long-tenured and experienced senior management team. Pro forma for Alcentra's AUM, our Alternative Credit AUM doubles to approximately $77 billion and our aggregate Alternative AUM increases to over $260 billion, representing 19% of our AUM and an even higher percentage of our adjusted revenues.

鑑於當前充滿挑戰的市場條件，我們很高興精心安排交易以幫助降低風險。 Alcentra 擁有一支強大的團隊，將受益於成為由 Benefit Street Partners 長期任職且經驗豐富的高級管理團隊領導的聯合替代信貸專家投資經理的一部分的規模、穩定性和文化一致性。對於 Alcentra 的資產管理規模，我們的另類信貸資產管理規模翻了一番，達到約 770 億美元，我們的另類資產管理資產總額增加到超過 2600 億美元，占我們資產管理規模的 19%，在我們調整後的收入中所佔的比例甚至更高。

As mentioned, this quarter's market environment challenged industry flows. And while we continue to benefit from a diversified mix of assets, we had third quarter long-term net outflows of $19.8 billion. Fiscal year-to-date long-term net outflows were $7.4 billion.

如前所述，本季度的市場環境對行業流動構成挑戰。雖然我們繼續從多元化的資產組合中受益，但我們第三季度的長期淨流出為 198 億美元。本財年迄今的長期淨流出為 74 億美元。

This quarter's continued market dislocation, rising rate environment and the need for inflation hedging has heightened investor interest in alternatives. Our net inflows increased to $2.1 billion this quarter, and included outflows in certain liquid alternative strategies. Our 3 largest alternative managers, Benefit Street Partners, Clarion Partners and Lexington Partners, each had net inflows with a combined total of $4 billion. Fundraising momentum in this area continues.

本季度持續的市場錯位、不斷上升的利率環境以及對沖通脹的需求提高了投資者對替代品的興趣。本季度我們的淨流入增加至 21 億美元，並包括某些流動性替代策略的流出。我們最大的 3 家另類基金管理公司 Benefit Street Partners、Clarion Partners 和 Lexington Partners 各自的淨流入總額為 40 億美元。該領域的籌資勢頭仍在繼續。

Our Multi-Asset net inflows were $1.6 billion, which represented the fourth consecutive positive quarter for the asset class. In this broad market sell-off environment, where investors are focused on income-generating strategies, we benefited from having strong income funds managed for yield, with notable investment track records and customization strategies.

我們的多資產淨流入為 16 億美元，這是該資產類別連續第四個季度出現正增長。在這種廣泛的市場拋售環境中，投資者專注於創收策略，我們受益於擁有強大的收益基金管理收益，具有顯著的投資記錄和定制策略。

The first half of 2022 saw the worst fixed income net outflows for the U.S. mutual fund industry since 2000, with 6 consecutive months of net outflows. While client interest in the asset class continued to be strong and our fixed income inflows increased by 6% from the prior quarter, net outflows were $14.3 billion, primarily due to certain U.S. taxable and muni strategies. We benefited from having a broad range of fixed income strategies with non-correlated investment philosophies, including net flows into taxable U.S. income, multi-sector bond, corporate and enhanced liquidity strategies.

2022 年上半年，美國共同基金行業出現了自 2000 年以來最嚴重的固定收益淨流出，連續 6 個月出現淨流出。雖然客戶對該資產類別的興趣持續強勁，我們的固定收益流入比上一季度增長 6%，但淨流出為 143 億美元，主要是由於某些美國應稅和市政戰略。我們受益於具有非相關投資理念的廣泛固定收益策略，包括淨流入美國應稅收入、多部門債券、公司和增強流動性策略。

Equity net outflows were $9.2 billion. This quarter, the risk-off environment impacted investor sentiment on certain growth strategies, which were partially offset by positive net flows into infrastructure, emerging markets and sector-specific equity strategies.

股票淨流出為 92 億美元。本季度，避險環境影響了投資者對某些增長策略的情緒，但部分被基礎設施、新興市場和特定行業股票策略的淨流入所抵消。

Consistent with what we've learned throughout our 75-year history, we've been front and center with our clients to help them navigate this period of high market volatility, rising rates and inflation and fears of recession. In this period of uncertainty, the importance of thought leadership and active engagement have increased. Clients are looking to us to provide them with investment solutions focused on income, inflation-hedged alternative and customization strategies as they look to rebalance their portfolios and reallocate risk across a variety of asset classes.

與我們在 75 年曆史中所學到的一致，我們一直站在客戶的前沿和中心，幫助他們度過這段市場高度波動、利率和通脹上升以及對經濟衰退的擔憂的時期。在這個不確定的時期，思想領導力和積極參與的重要性增加了。客戶希望我們為他們提供專注於收入、通脹對沖替代和定制策略的投資解決方案，因為他們希望重新平衡他們的投資組合併在各種資產類別中重新分配風險。

Last year, we shifted to a regionally focused sales model to meet the varying demands of our global business, shifting decision-making and resources closer to our clients. This quarter, we saw the benefits of geographical diversification outside the U.S., with improving net sales trends in EMEA and positive net flows in the Americas. Net flows for non-U.S. regions improved by 79% fiscal year-to-date from the year ago period.

去年，我們轉向以區域為重點的銷售模式，以滿足我們全球業務的不同需求，將決策和資源轉移到更貼近客戶的位置。本季度，我們看到了美國以外地域多元化的好處，歐洲、中東和非洲地區的淨銷售趨勢改善，美洲的淨流量為正。本財年迄今為止，非美國地區的淨流量比去年同期增長了 79%。

Touching briefly on our financial results, which reflect the acquisition of Lexington Partners, adjusted revenues were $1.6 billion, relatively flat from the prior quarter and a decrease of 3% from the prior year quarter. Our adjusted effective fee rate increased to 39.5 basis points compared to 38.5 basis points the prior quarter. Expenses were flat quarter-over-quarter and a 1% improvement from the prior year quarter.

簡要介紹一下我們的財務業績，這反映了對 Lexington Partners 的收購，調整後的收入為 16 億美元，與上一季度相對持平，比上一季度下降 3%。我們調整後的有效費率從上一季度的 38.5 個基點增加到 39.5 個基點。費用環比持平，比去年同期增長 1%。

Adjusted operating income was $567 million for the quarter, a decrease of 2% from the prior quarter and a decline of 6% from the prior year quarter. Our balance sheet position remains strong, with total cash and investments in excess of $6 billion after upfront cash consideration of almost $1 billion was paid for the acquisition of Lexington.

本季度調整後的營業收入為 5.67 億美元，比上一季度下降 2%，比上年同期下降 6%。我們的資產負債表狀況依然強勁，在為收購列剋星敦支付了近 10 億美元的前期現金對價後，總現金和投資超過 60 億美元。

Let me wrap up by saying that over the past several years, we have significantly diversified the firm to serve more clients across a broader range of investment strategies, with deep expertise and specialization in both public and private markets through more vehicles across geographies. Although the current market landscape presents challenges for the investment industry and our firm within it, we are proud of the progress that we have made to date to help our clients in both good and challenging market conditions.

最後，我要說的是，在過去的幾年裡，我們已經使公司顯著多元化，通過跨地區的更多工具為更多客戶提供更廣泛的投資策略，在公共和私人市場擁有深厚的專業知識和專業知識。儘管當前的市場格局給投資行業和我們所在的公司帶來了挑戰，但我們為迄今為止在良好和充滿挑戰的市場條件下幫助我們的客戶所取得的進展感到自豪。

Finally, I'd like to thank our dedicated employees, whose hard work and commitment to help people all over the world achieve the most important financial milestones of their lives.

最後，我要感謝我們敬業的員工，他們的辛勤工作和承諾幫助世界各地的人們實現人生中最重要的財務里程碑。

Now let's turn it over to your questions. Operator?

現在讓我們把它交給你的問題。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Our first question is from the line of Glenn Schorr from Evercore.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 Evercore 的 Glenn Schorr。

So Jenny, I enjoyed the prepared remarks on the wealth management alternatives and everything that you're doing on the education front. So I'm curious, from a product standpoint, how you're thinking about just making drawdown funds available or putting retail-specific products in motion, specifically semi-liquid products like your quarterly liquidity. Because we've seen some hiccups lately as markets pull back and seeing gross sales free up. So I'm just curious how you're thinking about the products that you're bringing into that channel.

所以珍妮，我很喜歡關於財富管理替代方案的準備好的評論以及你在教育方面所做的一切。所以我很好奇，從產品的角度來看，你是如何考慮提供提取資金或投入零售特定產品，特別是半流動性產品，如你的季度流動性。因為我們最近看到了一些小問題，因為市場回落並看到總銷售額釋放。所以我只是好奇你是如何考慮你要帶入那個渠道的產品的。

Yes. No, thanks. I mean -- and Glenn, you know this well. Like the opportunity, obviously, in the wealth channel is tremendous, but it's really complicated, right? And we're learning that through the process of -- the first battle is to be able to get to the gatekeepers, and you're finding that there's a massive amount of education that you have to do. It's complicated to sign up clients.

是的。不，謝謝。我的意思是——格倫，你很清楚這一點。像這樣的機會，顯然，在財富通道中是巨大的，但它真的很複雜，對吧？我們通過以下過程了解到這一點——第一場戰鬥是能夠到達看門人，你會發現你必須做大量的教育。註冊客戶很複雜。

And so we've made investments in companies like CAIS. We now have our -- several of our products on both iCapital and CAIS. And then the education piece is a big deal. And so we're actually working with CAIS through our FT Academy to actually do education in the alternatives.

所以我們對像 CAIS 這樣的公司進行了投資。我們現在在 iCapital 和 CAIS 上都有我們的一些產品。然後教育部分很重要。因此，我們實際上正在通過我們的 FT Academy 與 CAIS 合作，以實際進行替代教育。

We have things like the BSP BDC, CPREIF is actually getting interesting traction in the RIA channel. You have to get some size before the wirehouses will put you on their platform, even if you pass their due diligence. And so it's really important that you have the relationships in the RIA channel. You may recall small acquisition that we did in the private credit space. So they'd actually -- Benefit Street Partners purchased it, but it was -- they had experience in REIT with the RIAs.

我們有 BSP BDC 之類的東西，CPREIF 實際上在 RIA 渠道中得到了有趣的關注。即使您通過了他們的盡職調查，您也必須先獲得一定的規模，然後電報公司才會將您放到他們的平台上。因此，在 RIA 渠道中建立關係非常重要。您可能還記得我們在私人信貸領域進行的小型收購。所以他們實際上 - Benefit Street Partners 購買了它，但它是 - 他們在 RIA 的 REIT 方面有經驗。

So there's a lot of fronts where you have to get it right to actually get the traction. But we feel like our opportunity zone fund, which is on quite a few of the big wirehouses, CPREIF, the BDCs, we even have -- on our venture fund, have managed to get that on some of the private banks. So those are the types of products. It's really more of kind of the interval fund, '40 Act fund.

因此，您必須在很多方面都做到正確才能真正獲得牽引力。但是我們覺得我們的機會區基金，它在相當多的大型電匯公司、CPREIF、BDC，我們甚至在我們的風險基金中，已經設法在一些私人銀行獲得了這一點。所以這些是產品的類型。它實際上更像是一種間隔基金，'40 Act 基金。

Adam, do you have anything you want to add on?

亞當，你有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yes. Glenn, I just might add that when we talk about the distribution of alternatives to the wealth platform, yes, that's a broad strategic effort, but each platform is a little bit different. And so I think one of the things we've been able to do well over the last few quarters is to engage with kind of the head gatekeepers of each platform to say what type of a strategy is really best for you. Some want perpetual, some want other things, some want a product where there's going to be a broad consortium of banks participating in the deal, others want something that's more bespoke for their platform. So we've really been able to be a little more specific about what we're offering on each platform, and I think that will pay significant benefit.

是的。格倫，我只想補充一點，當我們談論財富平台的替代品分佈時，是的，這是一項廣泛的戰略努力，但每個平台都有點不同。因此，我認為我們在過去幾個季度中能夠做得很好的一件事是與每個平台的主要看門人進行接觸，以說出哪種類型的策略最適合您。有些人想要永久的，有些人想要其他東西，有些人想要一種產品，其中將有廣泛的銀行財團參與交易，其他人想要更適合他們平台的東西。所以我們真的能夠更具體地說明我們在每個平台上提供的內容，我認為這將帶來巨大的好處。

I appreciate all that. Maybe just one quick follow-up. You know that the worse fixed income flows since 2000. It is what it is. The market was a bit nuts. Now that we've gotten some reprieve in terms of the rate move, the spread move as they've settled in, could we hope and should we expect that fixed income, especially U.S. taxable, settle in with those conditions?

我很感激這一切。也許只是一個快速的跟進。你知道自 2000 年以來更糟糕的固定收益流動。就是這樣。市場有點瘋狂。既然我們已經在利率變動和價差變動方面得到了一些緩和，我們是否可以希望並且我們是否應該期望固定收入，尤其是美國的應稅收入，能夠適應這些條件？

Well, interesting -- sorry, I'll start and then, Adam, you can fill in. I mean, interesting, some of our biggest gross flows are still into fixed income. So while I think there's been redemptions, and, obviously, much heavier redemptions on the retail channel than on the institutional channel, we still see strong flows into the asset class.

好吧，很有趣——對不起，我先開始，然後，亞當，你可以填寫。我的意思是，有趣的是，我們的一些最大的總流量仍然流入固定收益。因此，雖然我認為有贖回，而且很明顯，零售渠道的贖回比機構渠道的贖回要重得多，但我們仍然看到大量資金流入資產類別。

And then I would just say, one thing that I'm not sure is fully appreciated, we cover the spectrum on views on -- in the fixed income market. So when you look at Brandywine, the Franklin fixed income and the Western, we actually -- their alpha generation only correlates 0.15x, right? So there's always something performing in that category.

然後我只想說，我不確定是否完全讚賞的一件事，我們涵蓋了對固定收益市場的看法。因此，當您查看 Brandywine、富蘭克林固定收益公司和西方公司時，我們實際上——它們的 alpha 生成僅相關 0.15 倍，對吧？所以總有一些東西在那個類別中表現出來。

And what you see is, whether it's insurance companies or others, there is a need for fixed income types of investments and returns and income generating. And frankly, that may be in the private markets as well as the public markets, but there's definitely demand there.

你看到的是，無論是保險公司還是其他公司，都需要固定收益類型的投資和回報以及創收。坦率地說，這可能在私人市場和公共市場上都有，但那里肯定有需求。

Adam, do you have anything to add?

亞當，你有什麼要補充的嗎？

And I would add, Jenny, that -- yes, I would add that -- a few things. One, the asset class is just more attractive flat out with higher yields, and it's less risky with the lower integration. So I think there's just a better beta to be had in the fixed income. The other thing we've seen that is on the pension side, as we see folks a little better funded at this point, looking to LDI type strategies, which we're now offering. It's another area where you might see some growth in fixed income allocation.

我要補充一點，珍妮，那——是的，我要補充一點——一些事情。第一，資產類別在收益率更高的情況下更具吸引力，而集成度越低，風險就越小。所以我認為固定收益只有一個更好的貝塔。我們看到的另一件事是在養老金方面，因為我們看到人們在這一點上獲得了更好的資金，正在尋找我們現在提供的 LDI 類型的策略。這是另一個您可能會看到固定收益分配有所增長的領域。

That definitely makes sense.

這絕對是有道理的。

The next question comes from Ken Worthington with JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Ken Worthington。

This is Michael Cho. I'm in for Ken today. I wanted to shift gears a little bit and ask a little bit about the recent launch of the blockchain-based money market fund. I realize it's been in the press for a little while now, but some time has passed. So I'm just curious, kind of a few things.

這是邁克爾·喬。我今天來找肯。我想稍微改變一下，問一下最近推出的基於區塊鏈的貨幣市場基金。我意識到它已經在媒體上發布了一段時間，但已經過去了一段時間。所以我只是好奇，有幾件事。

One, I mean, what are kind of your objectives of launching a fund on the blockchain? And then two, I think I saw it's on the Stellar chain, but -- kind of what were your considerations when you picked that one versus Ethereum or versus a private chain? And then clearly, like, again, some time has passed. Any lessons learned you'd like to share so far?

一，我的意思是，您在區塊鏈上啟動基金的目標是什麼？然後是兩個，我想我看到它在 Stellar 鏈上，但是 - 當你選擇那個與以太坊或私有鏈相比時，你的考慮是什麼？然後很明顯，就像，再次，一段時間過去了。到目前為止，您想分享任何經驗教訓嗎？

Sure. So let me get -- one, we picked Stellar at the time because Ethereum was something called proof-of-work and Stellar was proof-of-stake. And the difference, as you hear on the criticism of Bitcoin, is all about how energy -- what an energy drain it is. And that's because this concept is you have to solve algorithms to be able to post on the chain, and so that's a big energy drain. Whereas we knew that, that was going to become more of an issue. Ethereum is trying to shift to proof-of-stake, and so we ended up -- Stellar was designed as proof-of-stake, and so we selected that.

當然。所以讓我明白 - 一，我們當時選擇了 Stellar，因為以太坊是一種叫做工作量證明的東西，而 Stellar 是股權證明。正如你在對比特幣的批評中所聽到的那樣，不同之處在於能源的方式——它是多麼的能源消耗。那是因為這個概念是你必須解決算法才能在鏈上發布，所以這是一個很大的能量消耗。儘管我們知道這一點，但這將成為一個更大的問題。以太坊正試圖轉向股權證明，所以我們最終選擇了——Stellar 被設計為股權證明，所以我們選擇了它。

We decided to build this money market fund, honestly, because we think there will be a convergence. Over time, these types of tokenized assets will become -- I think they'll become securities and they'll be regulated. Now there's other countries that are further ahead probably than the U.S. in this, and -- but I think that there's going to be convergence. So we wanted to make sure that we understood it, and we were able to get in front of the wave.

老實說，我們決定建立這個貨幣市場基金，因為我們認為會有一個趨同。隨著時間的推移，這些類型的代幣化資產將成為——我認為它們將成為證券並受到監管。現在還有其他國家在這方面可能比美國更領先，而且——但我認為會有趨同。所以我們想確保我們理解它，並且我們能夠走在潮流的前面。

We think, ultimately, it will drive down cost in this environment. So we'll be able to deliver the same kind of quality investment products at a lower cost when you build these types of things on the chain. And starting out with the money market fund just made a lot of sense.

我們認為，最終，它將在這種環境下降低成本。因此，當您在鏈上構建這些類型的東西時，我們將能夠以更低的成本提供相同類型的優質投資產品。從貨幣市場基金開始就很有意義。

Honestly, we looked at, and we still think it, and you've already -- now you're starting to see it, that some of the products that were deemed "stable coins" that were yielding 7% and 8%, anybody who has an investment background knew that there was no way there could be a stable coin. And so we just felt like it made sense for us to come out with a money market fund.

老實說，我們看過，我們仍然認為，你已經 - 現在你開始看到了，一些被認為是“穩定幣”的產品，收益率分別為 7% 和 8%，任何人有投資背景的人都知道，不可能有穩定幣。所以我們覺得推出貨幣市場基金對我們來說是有意義的。

And we worked with the SEC, I mean, literally throughout it. As we both became educated on it, it took a while, and we are an approved '40 Act money market fund. Where it goes, well, the market's going to evolve as people get more comfortable with this asset class or -- it's not even an asset class, with the technology where they can hold their tokens in a secure wallet, which is complicated in itself.

我們與美國證券交易委員會合作，我的意思是，在整個過程中。因為我們都接受了教育，所以花了一段時間，我們是一個獲得批准的 '40 法案貨幣市場基金。好吧，隨著人們對這種資產類別越來越滿意，市場將會發展，或者 - 它甚至不是一種資產類別，他們可以將代幣存放在安全錢包中的技術，這本身就很複雜。

And right now, there's a lot of people kind of playing around that space. But it will become more institutionalized, and we can take all of these learnings. What we built on the Stellar system can launch other '40 Act funds. So again, it was just really a way to make sure that we're understanding disruption as it comes to our industry, and that we're riding the wave forward.

現在，有很多人在那個空間裡玩耍。但它會變得更加製度化，我們可以吸取所有這些教訓。我們在 Stellar 系統上構建的東西可以啟動其他 '40 Act 基金。再說一遍，這只是一種確保我們理解行業顛覆的方式，並且我們正在順勢而為。

Next question comes from Dan Fannon of Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Dan Fannon。

This is actually Rick on for Dan. So I wanted to tack on to the fixed income discussion from earlier. So just looking at the data that we have available to us, and you guys released this as well, it's clear that a sizable chunk of the deterioration you guys are seeing in outflows are coming from retail. But just like thinking about the large institutional base and nature of the Western franchise, could you maybe speak on trends and conversations you're having with that client base and the platform more specifically?

這實際上是丹的瑞克。所以我想繼續前面關於固定收益的討論。因此，只要看看我們提供給我們的數據，你們也發布了這個數據，很明顯，你們看到的資金外流惡化中有相當大一部分來自零售業。但就像考慮西方特許經營的龐大機構基礎和性質一樣，您能否更具體地談談您與該客戶群和平台的趨勢和對話？

Yes. I mean, a couple of things. First of all, in the past 10 years, Western has absolutely outperformed in 9 of the 10 years. And in the 1 year, they underperformed 2018, they crushed it in 2019 and made up for any underperformance. So I always like to say, be careful betting against the Western.

是的。我的意思是，有幾件事。首先，過去10年，西部10年中有9年絕對跑贏大盤。而在 1 年裡，他們的表現落後於 2018 年，他們在 2019 年粉碎了它並彌補了任何表現不佳的情況。所以我總是喜歡說，小心押注西方。

And as a matter of fact, while it's a little early to tell, my CFO constantly reminds me that quarter-to-date, Western is in their top decile. So they're proving out that maybe their positioning could be right. So -- but as I said, from here managing the business, we're happy that we have really diversified perspectives on end products in the fixed income space with low correlation.

事實上，雖然現在下結論還為時過早，但我的首席財務官不斷提醒我，從本季度至今，Western 處於最高十分位。所以他們證明了他們的定位可能是正確的。所以 - 但正如我所說，從這裡管理業務，我們很高興我們對低相關性的固定收益領域的最終產品擁有真正多元化的視角。

Now institutional investors, Western has a lot of conversations with them. They understand Western. As a matter of fact, Morningstar just maintained their Gold rating and talked about how they have high conviction on the investment team and that they are an excellent investment team.

現在機構投資者，西方與他們進行了很多對話。他們懂西方。事實上，晨星只是維持了他們的黃金評級，並談到了他們對投資團隊的高度信念，以及他們是一支優秀的投資團隊。

And so I think we'll continue to be very optimistic. I think people slowed down for now, but I wouldn't be surprised. And yet, I believe the Core, Core Plus is our top selling from a gross sales fund. So there's obviously still a lot of money going in there.

所以我認為我們將繼續非常樂觀。我認為人們現在放慢了速度，但我不會感到驚訝。然而，我相信 Core，Core Plus 是我們從總銷售基金中最暢銷的產品。因此，顯然仍有大量資金投入其中。

Yes. And if you look at...

是的。如果你看...

I appreciate the answer.

我很感激這個答案。

Yes, we're up quarter-over-quarter. Remember that Core and Core Plus are about 1/3 of Western's total AUM. They have a lot of other things that are doing exceedingly well. And on top of that, even within the Core and Core Plus land, we've got a very significant institutional pipeline.

是的，我們季度環比增長。請記住，Core 和 Core Plus 約佔 Western 總 AUM 的 1/3。他們還有很多其他的事情做得非常好。最重要的是，即使在 Core 和 Core Plus 領域內，我們也擁有非常重要的機構管道。

The next question comes from Alex Blostein of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的 Alex Blostein。

Maybe we could start with some of the dynamics and some of the numbers around the alt products for you guys. Obviously, with Lexington coming in, there's a couple of moving pieces.

也許我們可以從一些動態和一些圍繞替代產品的數字開始為你們提供。顯然，隨著列剋星敦的加入，有幾個動人的部分。

So I was hoping maybe just to get a reset on what the fee paying AUM is for the alts bucket. I think you guys gave us total AUM, but I was hoping to get the fee paying AUM, the management fees that are being generated by Lexington now that it's fully in the run rate, as well as the kind of the total alts bucket.

所以我希望也許只是為了重新確定支付 AUM 的費用是多少。我想你們給了我們總 AUM，但我希望得到支付 AUM 的費用，列剋星敦正在產生的管理費，因為它完全處於運行速度，以及總 alts 桶的類型。

And then on Lexington specifically, any updates you could provide us with from a fundraising perspective? I think they're in the market with Fund 10. How that's going, what the expectations are when that fund AUM will start coming into the run rate?

然後特別是在列剋星敦，您可以從籌款的角度向我們提供任何更新嗎？我認為他們與基金 10 一起進入市場。情況如何，當該基金的 AUM 開始進入運行率時的預期是什麼？

Yes.

是的。

Sure. I'll take one.

當然。我要一個。

Okay. Go ahead.

好的。前進。

Do you want to start, Jenny, okay?

你想開始嗎，珍妮，好嗎？

No, no, you go ahead.

不，不，你繼續。

Okay. Alex, on the management fee income from -- or the management fee revenue from the alternative asset managers that we have, we'll likely aggregate something like, on an annualized basis, $1.2 billion to $1.3 billion. I think we've communicated that in the past, and that's consistent with what we said. That's about 50% up from the previous year. And that excludes performance fees, of course, as we've explained. So that's where we're at on the management fee revenues.

好的。亞歷克斯，就我們擁有的另類資產管理公司的管理費收入或來自另類資產管理公司的管理費收入而言，我們可能會按年計算總計 12 億至 13 億美元。我認為我們過去已經傳達了這一點，這與我們所說的一致。這比上一年增加了約50%。當然，正如我們已經解釋的那樣，這不包括表演費。這就是我們對管理費收入的看法。

And I would say, on the Lexington, that they are on schedule despite the environment on their fundraising. So as...

我會說，在列剋星敦，儘管籌款環境不佳，但他們仍按計劃進行。這樣...

Yes. And then -- and then if you're looking for the -- for an idea of what the overall alternative asset business is relative to the size of our franchise, if we pro forma the business for Alcentra, for instance, we are about 19% of our assets under management would be in the alternative asset space, 21% of revenue roughly and probably up to something like 1/4 of our operating income will be from alternative assets as a whole.

是的。然後 - 如果你正在尋找 - 了解整體另類資產業務相對於我們的特許經營規模的影響，例如，如果我們為 Alcentra 的業務進行備考，我們大約 19 歲我們管理的資產的 % 將在另類資產領域，大約 21% 的收入，可能高達我們營業收入的 1/4 左右將來自整體的另類資產。

The next question comes from Patrick Davitt from Autonomous Research.

下一個問題來自 Autonomous Research 的 Patrick Davitt。

There have been a lot of questions out there about the quality of the Alcentra business, given what looks like fairly stagnant AUM over the last few years, obviously, some high-profile employee losses. I understand it looks like you've got a very good price relative to what they're hoping to get in and, obviously, put a lot of protections into that price. But could you flesh out a bit how you see the process of running a ship that aren't getting back up to the level of growth we're expecting from a private credit manager?

鑑於過去幾年 AUM 看起來相當停滯不前，顯然有一些備受矚目的員工流失，因此存在很多關於 Alcentra 業務質量的問題。我知道相對於他們希望獲得的價格，您的價格看起來非常好，並且顯然，在這個價格中加入了很多保護措施。但是，您能否詳細說明您如何看待運營一艘沒有恢復到我們對私人信貸經理所期望的增長水平的船舶的過程？

Yes. Well, first, I mean, the turnover that happened obviously happened all before the deal was announced. It was really at the senior level, and I think that the area of concern was the direct lending. And the rest of the business has been growing very well and has had very good performance.

是的。嗯，首先，我的意思是，發生的營業額顯然發生在交易宣布之前。這真的是高層，我認為關注的領域是直接貸款。其餘的業務增長非常好，表現非常好。

And so I think it's important to block the noise around that, but I think that it's important to understand that was just at a very senior level, which is why there's an opportunity with the fact that we can roll it in with Benefit Street Partners that already has a good senior leadership team.

所以我認為阻止周圍的噪音很重要，但我認為理解這只是在非常高級的水平上很重要，這就是為什麼我們有機會與 Benefit Street Partners 一起推出它已經擁有一支優秀的高層領導團隊。

And then one of the things that I think we understand really well and why we've been successful in acquisitions is we understand that you're buying an investment team and their investment process, and so it's important that you have retention. And so we've built in retention to ensure that we minimize any kind of -- the future, anybody leaving in the future.

然後，我認為我們非常了解的一件事以及為什麼我們在收購中取得成功的原因是我們了解您正在購買一個投資團隊及其投資流程，因此保留人才很重要。因此，我們建立了保留，以確保我們最大限度地減少任何類型的 - 未來，任何人在未來離開。

I think that what's really exciting is that we are -- our distribution in Europe has continued to improve. And now you take a product like this that we think that -- our distribution is incredibly excited about having private credit to be able to sell. And so being able to bring these 2 things together, we are very, very optimistic. So I don't know, Adam, anything else you want to add?

我認為真正令人興奮的是我們——我們在歐洲的分佈繼續改善。現在您採用我們認為的這樣的產品-我們的發行版對擁有能夠出售的私人信貸感到非常興奮。因此，能夠將這兩件事結合在一起，我們非常非常樂觀。所以我不知道，亞當，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yes. I would just say that Alcentra brings 2 things that, one, is a product capability that's very European-specific in addition to other products, but that really helps us out with our Alternative franchise and a real distribution capability as well. Both of those things are additive.

是的。我只想說，Alcentra 帶來了兩件事，一是除了其他產品外，它還具有非常歐洲特有的產品能力，但這確實有助於我們的替代特許經營權和真正的分銷能力。這兩件事都是相加的。

I'll just end by saying, Patrick, that as you know, we study M&A pretty hard in the asset management arena, including both traditional and alternative assets. And we felt that globalizing, as Jenny just mentioned, globalizing our alternative credit capabilities by adding Europe is very important, given the growth potential in -- across that region, frankly, both the U.K. and Europe.

最後，Patrick，我只想說，正如你所知，我們在資產管理領域非常努力地研究併購，包括傳統資產和另類資產。我們認為全球化，正如 Jenny 剛剛提到的那樣，考慮到整個地區的增長潛力，坦率地說，英國和歐洲都具有增長潛力，因此通過增加歐洲來全球化我們的替代信貸能力非常重要。

And we concluded, while we like to grow things organically ourselves, it's our #1 priority is always to grow organically where we can. There are some things that just take too long to become a leader. Too long to grow, too long to be relevant, frankly. And in our opinion, it would have taken us perhaps a decade to create what Alcentra has become, just like it's taken 15 years to become what Benefit Street Partners has become. And we just concluded that this was the best way to become a true global leader in alternative credit. So that's why we did what we did.

我們得出結論，雖然我們喜歡自己有機地種植東西，但我們的第一要務始終是盡可能地有機地種植。有些事情需要很長時間才能成為領導者。坦率地說，成長時間太長，相關性太長。在我們看來，我們可能需要 10 年的時間才能創建 Alcentra 的樣子，就像 Benefit Street Partners 需要 15 年的時間一樣。我們剛剛得出結論，這是成為替代信貸領域真正全球領導者的最佳方式。所以這就是我們做我們所做的事情的原因。

And to your point on price, the price is driven a little bit around some of the uncertainty in the overall market. But also it's just a function of how M&A can be structured, and we've done that very carefully. And we've got a great partnership in bank of New York that has a lot of upside participation in the growth in the growth of the business, and we expect there to be growth. As Jenny mentioned, there are multiple factors, multiple strategies at Alcentra, and most of them have grown quite nicely, and we expect that to continue post-closing and into calendar 2023.

就您的價格而言，價格在一定程度上受到整個市場的一些不確定性的推動。但這也只是併購結構的一個功能，我們已經非常小心地做到了這一點。我們在紐約銀行建立了很好的合作夥伴關係，在業務增長方面有很多積極的參與，我們預計會有增長。正如 Jenny 所提到的，Alcentra 有多種因素和多種策略，其中大多數都發展得很好，我們預計這種情況將在交易結束後持續到 2023 年。

And I'd just add, during the due diligence process, as you can imagine, we checked on the reputation of the firm with the consultants and institutions, and we're very comfortable with that. We think they have a -- they still, despite some of the headline stories around turnover, have an excellent reputation in the market.

我想補充一點，在盡職調查過程中，正如您所想像的那樣，我們檢查了公司在顧問和機構中的聲譽，我們對此感到非常滿意。我們認為他們有——儘管有一些關於營業額的頭條新聞，他們仍然在市場上享有盛譽。

Very helpful. And just one quick follow-up. Would you be willing to give the total AUM in kind of this core flagship strategies at Western? There's so much of institutional that we can't see. I don't think we've got an update on that in a while.

非常有幫助。只需快速跟進。您願意以西方的這種核心旗艦戰略的形式提供總 AUM 嗎？有很多我們看不到的製度。我認為我們有一段時間沒有關於這方面的更新了。

The Core Plus strategy or Core and Core Plus strategy?

Core Plus 戰略還是 Core 和 Core Plus 戰略？

Core and Core Plus, yes.

Core 和 Core Plus，是的。

Core and Core Plus together is about $150 billion approximately at Western.

在西方，Core 和 Core Plus 的總價值約為 1500 億美元。

The next question comes from Stephanie Ma of Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 Stephanie Ma。

This is Stephanie on for Mike Cyprys. My first question is on expense and performance fee outlook. So hoping you can just give us an update or mark-to-market on expenses given lower AUM levels? And then performance fees, that continues to be much stronger than you had guided. So any color on that outlook would be helpful as well.

這是邁克賽普里斯的斯蒂芬妮。我的第一個問題是關於費用和績效費的前景。因此，希望您能在 AUM 水平較低的情況下向我們提供有關費用的最新信息或按市值計價？然後是表演費，這仍然比你指導的要高得多。因此，該前景的任何顏色都會有所幫助。

Yes. So on overall expenses, I think in the last call, last quarter, we guided to $3.9 billion to $3.95 billion of adjusted operating expenses for the full fiscal year ended 9/30. The update to that, I would say, is that we expect to be on the lower end of that. So instead of just saying $3.9 billion to $3.95 billion, we expect to be closer to $3.9 billion and then to $3.95 billion. And remember, that includes Lexington.

是的。因此，在總體費用方面，我認為在上一季度的最後一次電話會議中，我們將截至 9/30 的整個財政年度的調整後運營費用引導至 39 億至 39.5 億美元。我會說，對此的更新是我們預計會處於低端。因此，我們預計會接近 39 億美元，然後是 39.5 億美元，而不是僅僅說 39 億到 39.5 億美元。請記住，這包括列剋星敦。

So we -- a couple of quarters ago, I think I explained that we were in the $3.9 billion to $3.95 billion, excluding performance fees and excluding Lexington. Last quarter, we said $3.9 billion to $3.95 billion, excluding performance fees, but including Lexington. This quarter, we're saying $3.9 billion to $3.95 billion, excluding performance fees, including Lexington and would be on the lower end, we believe, all else remaining equal for the year.

所以我們 - 幾個季度前，我想我解釋說我們在 39 億美元到 39.5 億美元之間，不包括績效費和列剋星敦。上個季度，我們說 39 億至 39.5 億美元，不包括績效費，但包括列剋星敦。本季度，我們說的是 39 億至 39.5 億美元，不包括包括列剋星敦在內的業績費用，我們認為，在今年所有其他條件保持不變的情況下，這將處於低端。

In terms of specifics around that, I think last quarter, I guided to the different line items, and we'd expect those to be approximately the same. So G&A to be approximately $140 million, occupancy around $57 million and IS&T to be around $125 million, and all those things are obviously inclusive of Lexington Partners. And then our comp ratio, we've guided to around 45% for the year, and we expect that to also be at 45% for the year.

就這方面的細節而言，我認為上個季度，我指導了不同的項目，我們希望這些項目大致相同。因此，G&A 約為 1.4 億美元，入住率約為 5700 萬美元，IS&T 約為 1.25 億美元，所有這些顯然都包括 Lexington Partners。然後是我們的薪酬比率，我們已經將今年的目標定為 45% 左右，我們預計今年也將達到 45%。

In terms of performance fees, we don't guide on performance fees, frankly. I mean, the way I've communicated this in previous calls is to say that we think, for modeling purposes, $30 million to $40 million is reasonable. Obviously, we acknowledge the fact that we've been higher than that for a few quarters now. But again, it's very hard to calculate where our performance fees are going to be.

坦率地說，在演出費方面，我們不指導演出費。我的意思是，我在之前的電話會議中傳達這一點的方式是說我們認為，出於建模目的，3000 萬到 4000 萬美元是合理的。顯然，我們承認我們已經有幾個季度高於這個事實。但同樣，很難計算我們的績效費將在哪裡。

But all I'd say is that, obviously, the reason why performance fees have gone up is because we're performing well in a number of our asset classes, both across real estate and credit. And other areas, frankly, we've crossed about 9 of our specialist investment management companies, so that's concentrated maybe in three. It's because we're just getting larger in alternative assets so the potential to earn more performance fees is going up as we continue to increase our alternative asset business.

但我想說的是，很明顯，績效費上漲的原因是因為我們在許多資產類別中表現良好，包括房地產和信貸。在其他領域，坦率地說，我們已經跨越了大約 9 家專業投資管理公司，所以可能集中在三個。這是因為我們在另類資產方面的規模越來越大，因此隨著我們繼續增加另類資產業務，賺取更多績效費的潛力正在上升。

But I'm sticking with (inaudible)...

但我堅持（聽不清）......

Great. That's very helpful. If I can just squeeze another follow-up in here. We noticed a reference to the China JV of $12 billion of AUM. So hoping you can expand on some of the initiatives there. And are there any plans to raise your ownership? And then what sort of growth are you seeing in that region?

偉大的。這很有幫助。如果我可以在這裡擠另一個後續行動。我們注意到中國合資企業的資產管理規模為 120 億美元。因此，希望您可以擴展那裡的一些舉措。有沒有計劃提高你的所有權？然後你在那個地區看到什麼樣的增長？

So I believe that we have said that we would like to extend our ownership in there now that the regulations have changed, and so we're in discussions to do that. We also have a wholly owned WFOE, which would give us other optionality if that -- we were not able to buy 100%.

因此，我相信我們已經說過，既然法規已經改變，我們希望擴大我們的所有權，所以我們正在討論這樣做。我們還有一家全資擁有的外商獨資企業，如果我們無法 100% 購買，這將給我們提供其他選擇權。

Look, China is a massive, important market. We were early as far as firms, asset managers who did joint venture partners. We have unbelievably excellent performance, have had really stable investment teams there. We hired Dr. Ben Meng, who is our Chairman of Asia Pacific and is well connected. And we -- it has been a profitable business for us. We think it can be much more meaningful as far as its contributions over the long run.

看，中國是一個巨大而重要的市場。我們很早就成為了做合資夥伴的公司、資產管理公司。我們有令人難以置信的出色表現，在那裡擁有非常穩定的投資團隊。我們聘請了 Ben Meng 博士，他是我們的亞太區主席，人脈廣泛。而我們——這對我們來說是一項有利可圖的業務。我們認為，就其長期貢獻而言，它可能更有意義。

Next question comes from the line of Alex Blostein of Goldman Sachs.

下一個問題來自高盛的 Alex Blostein。

A couple of quick ones here. So I guess, just going back to performance fee discussion for a second. Matt, given the fact that it's gotten a bigger portion of the overall business model, maybe you can frame to us sort of the sources of performance fees that you saw this quarter. And any kind of ideas on performance fee accruals that could be realized over time as investments kind of crystallize? Or just to kind of get a better sense of what that -- the bucket of potential performance fees could look like going forward?

這裡有幾個快速的。所以我想，回到績效費討論一秒鐘。馬特，鑑於它在整個商業模式中佔據了更大的份額，也許你可以向我們介紹你在本季度看到的績效費用的來源。隨著投資的具體化，隨著時間的推移，任何關於績效費應計的想法都可以實現嗎？或者只是為了更好地了解那是什麼——潛在的績效費用可能會是什麼樣子？

Yes. I mean, a good portion of the increased performance fees quarter-over-quarter has been from our real estate franchise, Clarion Partners, where the performance has been outstanding. So I would say, probably -- yes, a good 60% of it or something like that and then probably a higher percentage of the increasing performance fees that we've had is, frankly, just from performance thresholds being met and quarterly realizations of that performance has made the performance fees action. So that's the -- I'd say that's the primary source of the increase in performance fees.

是的。我的意思是，環比增長的業績費用中有很大一部分來自我們的房地產特許經營權 Clarion Partners，該公司的業績表現非常出色。所以我會說，可能 - 是的，其中有 60% 或類似的東西，然後坦率地說，我們所擁有的不斷增加的績效費用中可能有更高的百分比，僅僅是因為達到了績效閾值和季度實現該表現已作出表現收費行動。所以這就是 - 我會說這是績效費用增加的主要來源。

But I wouldn't want to understate the performance of our credit business also that has led to performance fees and performance fee increases over the last 2 or 3 quarters, in particular. The -- it's really a combination of realizations, quarterly performance fee thresholds and annual performance fee thresholds. Maybe it's helpful to say that we think that our performance fees will probably peak at the calendar year-end, so that would be the end of our first quarter.

但我不想低估我們信貸業務的表現，這也導致了過去 2 或 3 個季度的業績費用和業績費用增加。 - 它實際上是實現、季度績效費門檻和年度績效費門檻的組合。也許說我們認為我們的績效費可能會在日曆年末達到頂峰會有所幫助，所以那將是我們第一季度的末期。

And then perhaps another useful point is out about $127 million this quarter, approximately 70% of it is specifically quarterly performance fees. So you might get to argue that something between $60 million, $70 million could, if we have exactly the same performance next quarter or this quarter. Yes, again, I'm not guiding you this way for modeling purpose. I've already explained how I'd look at that. But you could argue that we could at least get up to $60 million, $70 million if we were to repeat that.

然後也許另一個有用的點是本季度大約 1.27 億美元，其中大約 70% 是專門的季度績效費。因此，您可能會爭辯說，如果我們下個季度或本季度的表現完全相同，那麼可能會有 6000 萬美元到 7000 萬美元。是的，再一次，我不是為了建模目的而以這種方式指導你。我已經解釋了我會怎麼看。但你可能會爭辯說，如果我們重複這一點，我們至少可以獲得 6000 萬美元，7000 萬美元。

Yes. Okay. I got you. That's helpful. And then another quick one for me just around the balance sheet. So lots of moving pieces, obviously, Lexington payment came out. You guys have contingencies coming up as well. How are you thinking about sort of the discretionary cash balance today?

是的。好的。我接到你了。這很有幫助。然後在資產負債表周圍對我來說另一個快速的。如此多的動人，顯然，列剋星敦付款出來了。你們也有突發事件。您如何看待今天的可自由支配現金餘額？

So if you were to think about maybe both cash and investments, and you would say, okay, how much of that is sort of truly available for corporate purposes or whatever else? And how much do you guys think you're going to need to use towards future GP co-investment or GP balance sheet commitments, given the fact that your illiquids aren't getting bigger over the next couple of years here?

因此，如果您同時考慮現金和投資，您會說，好吧，其中有多少是真正可用於公司目的或其他用途的？鑑於您的非流動性在未來幾年內不會變得更大，你們認為您需要將多少資金用於未來的 GP 共同投資或 GP 資產負債表承諾？

Yes. So firstly, out of our roughly $2.6 billion of investments, let's say half of that is very liquid, highly liquid, like well over $1 billion of it is highly liquid. But it's been important to see new funds in order to accelerate access to distribution opportunities. I think we've explained that we've got a very good multiple on that seeding in terms of the AUM that's been created from it. So that's sort of number one.

是的。因此，首先，在我們大約 26 億美元的投資中，假設其中一半是非常流動的、高流動性的，比如超過 10 億美元是高流動性的。但重要的是要看到新的資金以加速獲得分銷機會。我認為我們已經解釋說，就從它創建的 AUM 而言，我們在該種子中獲得了非常好的倍數。所以這是第一名。

So we wouldn't want to liquidate that, but we can recirculate that. And we've gotten much more disciplined, but not just letting seed capital sit in funds for like 5 years. So every year, we're able to circulate several hundred million dollars, I would say, out of the $2.6 billion. And a portion of that recirculation, Alex, is going into more of the alternative asset area. We probably have $800 million or something like that now invested across the alternative asset businesses that we have, which is more longer term in investments versus the rest that's more short-term seed capital.

所以我們不想清算它，但我們可以再循環它。而且我們變得更加自律，但不僅僅是讓種子資本在基金中呆了 5 年。所以每年，我們能夠在 26 億美元中流通數億美元。再循環的一部分，亞歷克斯，正在進入更多的另類資產領域。我們現在可能有 8 億美元或類似的資金投資於我們擁有的另類資產業務，這是更長期的投資，而其餘的是更短期的種子資本。

So number one, we're getting better at circulating it even without increasing the $2.6 billion. But number two, every year, we are earmarking a meaningful amount of our income and our cash, if we need to, to continue to invest in GP-level alternative asset opportunities.

因此，第一，即使不增加 26 億美元，我們也能更好地流通它。但第二，每年，如果需要，我們都會撥出大量收入和現金，繼續投資於 GP 級別的另類資產機會。

I should say that we -- when we provide that commitment, we also allow our senior employees at both the alternative asset business and across Franklin to invest, and we're getting so much interest from employees to invest in these areas that the actual commitment of Franklin and making off the balance sheet is reducing versus increasing. But again, if we -- we don't have that interest because of general market condition or something, Franklin is there, and we could expect that to increase meaningfully.

我應該說我們——當我們提供這一承諾時，我們還允許我們在另類資產業務和整個富蘭克林的高級員工進行投資，我們從員工那裡獲得瞭如此多的興趣來投資這些領域，以至於實際的承諾富蘭克林的資產負債表是減少而不是增加。但同樣，如果我們 - 由於一般市場狀況或其他原因而沒有這種興趣，富蘭克林就在那裡，我們可以預期它會有意義地增加。

In terms of the amount of cash that we think we have, so let's say, excess cash or cash available to do further investing, and then including M&A, put that in excess of $1 billion. But obviously, in this current market condition, we are very cautious, very disciplined. And we think having cash on hand for opportunistic situations is going to be a competitive advantage of ours. So that's how we look at cash. We feel that we're in a good position with the around $6 billion or more of cash and investments. Disciplined with circulating the investments, adding to it carefully each year.

就我們認為我們擁有的現金數量而言，比如說，多餘的現金或可用於進一步投資的現金，然後包括併購，超過 10 億美元。但顯然，在當前的市場條件下，我們非常謹慎，非常自律。我們認為，在機會主義的情況下手頭有現金將成為我們的競爭優勢。這就是我們看待現金的方式。我們認為我們擁有大約 60 億美元或更多的現金和投資，處於有利地位。有紀律地循環投資，每年謹慎增加。

And with the cash piece, you mentioned upcoming acquisition-related payments. You're right, that's why we're conservative with it because we do have $1.6 billion of acquisition-related payments over the next 4 years. We also have $1.4 billion of debt over the next 5 years coming due, which we can refinance, but we also like to be able to delever where it's -- when debt is getting more expensive. So that's how we look at that.

對於現金，您提到了即將到來的與收購相關的付款。您是對的，這就是我們對此持保守態度的原因，因為我們在未來 4 年內確實有 16 億美元的收購相關付款。我們還有 14 億美元的債務在未來 5 年內到期，我們可以再融資，但我們也希望能夠在債務變得更加昂貴的時候去槓桿化。這就是我們的看法。

And the next question comes from Brennan Hawken of UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀的布倫南霍肯。

This is Adam Beatty in for Brennan this morning. Kind of a 2-parter, a multi-parter on alts distribution. In particular, we're wondering about some of the nuances of alts distribution in the European market, particularly for European retail and what you're seeing there? And then in kind of a separate angle, just wanted to get your thoughts on how much sort of product and distribution crops over you're expecting between Alcentra and BSP?

這是今天早上布倫南的亞當比蒂。一種 2 部分，一個多部分的替代分佈。特別是，我們想知道歐洲市場上替代品分銷的一些細微差別，特別是對於歐洲零售業，您在那裡看到了什麼？然後從一個單獨的角度，只是想了解一下您對 Alcentra 和 BSP 之間預期的產品和分銷作物的種類有多少？

So I think -- I'm not sure I know sort of the detailed nuances, other than there's a couple of just trends that are relevant everywhere for all, right? And we've talked about it before, where you're just seeing companies waiting longer to go public. You're seeing less opportunities on equities to invest in, that universe has shrunk. I think banks -- Basel III capital requirements have made it such that banks are much more careful with who they're choosing to lend to, which has created this proliferation of private credit.

所以我認為 - 我不確定我是否了解詳細的細微差別，除了有一些與所有人都相關的趨勢，對吧？我們之前已經討論過它，您只是看到公司等待更長時間才能上市。你看到股票投資的機會越來越少，這個世界已經縮小了。我認為銀行——巴塞爾協議 III 的資本要求使得銀行在選擇貸款給誰時更加謹慎，這導致了私人信貸的擴散。

I think that is a direct response to some of the capital changes that have happened in the banking industry. And so you see meaningful excess returns in the private markets. And there is such an opportunity to naturally bring that to the wealth channel.

我認為這是對銀行業發生的一些資本變化的直接反應。所以你在私人市場上看到了有意義的超額回報。有這樣一個機會自然而然地將其帶到財富渠道。

The problem is it's a bit like running with scissors, where you've got these illiquid assets to often people who require it. And so creating those types of vehicles is important and being really aware about how you do that. And so that's the type of thing our product development team is working on.

問題是它有點像用剪刀跑步，你將這些非流動資產提供給經常需要它的人。因此，創造這些類型的車輛很重要，並且要真正意識到你是如何做到這一點的。這就是我們的產品開發團隊正在做的事情。

And then same as in the U.S., it requires just a massive amount of education plus the complexity of things like signing up for these. And so big opportunity there, but it is -- it's a lot of blocking and tackling that happens before you really start to see the traction.

然後和美國一樣，它只需要大量的教育以及註冊這些東西的複雜性。那裡有這麼大的機會，但它是 - 在你真正開始看到牽引力之前發生了很多阻礙和解決。

I think in the U.S., we are finally starting. I mean, we've been talking about this for 2 years. It's a core priority, and we're only now starting to finally see that traction. We think it's going to be similar -- again, we all say Europe, but the reality is every country is different. You might have EU regulations, but then they get interpreted. And so it's actually even more complicated to bring the customized products to those markets.

我認為在美國，我們終於開始了。我的意思是，我們已經討論了 2 年了。這是一個核心優先事項，我們現在才開始最終看到這種牽引力。我們認為這將是相似的——再說一次，我們都說歐洲，但現實是每個國家都是不同的。您可能有歐盟法規，但隨後它們會被解釋。因此，將定制產品推向這些市場實際上更加複雜。

Adam, anything you want to add to that?

亞當，你想補充什麼嗎？

Yes. I would add that if you think about all of the transactions that Franklin Templeton has done, one of the real hallmarks of them has been a lack of overlap in product. As you get larger, that gets harder and harder to have zero overlap. But in general, we feel really, really good about the transactions we're doing and how little overlap there is across the product set. I think there's also a real advantage of having a regional specific alternatives manager, which means that those products will be even more geared towards the local market.

是的。我要補充一點，如果你想想富蘭克林鄧普頓所做的所有交易，它們的真正標誌之一就是產品缺乏重疊。當你變大時，零重疊變得越來越難。但總的來說，我們對我們正在做的交易以及整個產品集的重疊程度感到非常非常好。我認為擁有區域特定替代品經理還有一個真正的優勢，這意味著這些產品將更加面向當地市場。

Two other comments I would add is that within Europe, there's really 2 different pieces of the -- of bringing alternatives to the wealth channel. One is really at the ultra-high net worth level, and the other is more at the mass affluent level. We want to make sure we address both. And then finally, I would say, sustainability continues to be a big trend around the world, but especially in Europe. So in Europe, to the extent that you can add sustainability to your alternatives in the wealth channels, that's where I think the real growth will be.

我要補充的另外兩條評論是，在歐洲，確實有兩個不同的部分——為財富渠道帶來替代品。一個真的是超高淨值水平，一個更屬於大眾富裕水平。我們要確保我們同時解決這兩個問題。最後，我想說的是，可持續發展仍然是世界範圍內的大趨勢，尤其是在歐洲。因此，在歐洲，如果您可以在財富渠道中為您的選擇增加可持續性，我認為這才是真正的增長所在。

And to answer your question about BSP versus Alcentra, very little overlap there.

為了回答你關於 BSP 與 Alcentra 的問題，那裡幾乎沒有重疊。

Yes. And so are you planning to sort of be able to cross-distribute that? Is it similar to what you've done with Legg Mason's legacy?

是的。那麼您是否計劃能夠交叉分發它？它與您對 Legg Mason 的遺產所做的類似嗎？

I mean, yes -- sorry, there's a little overlap, Adam. But the opportunity to work together, whether it's on transactions, flow with -- from a distribution perspective, helping raise capital together. I mean, there's really meaningful opportunities on a global scale with the 2 together. And obviously, the relationships across 2 are also complementary, so we think there could be some really interesting opportunities there as they work together.

我的意思是，是的——對不起，有一點重疊，亞當。但合作的機會，無論是在交易方面，還是從分銷的角度來看，都有助於共同籌集資金。我的意思是，在全球範圍內，兩者結合在一起確實有非常有意義的機會。顯然，2 之間的關係也是互補的，所以我們認為當他們一起工作時可能會有一些非常有趣的機會。

That's perfect -- sorry, go ahead.

太完美了——對不起，繼續。

Okay. Well, I was just going to say, BSP was very, very U.S.-focused, right? And so -- and Alcentra had very little footprint in the U.S. A little bit, I think, on CLOs and things. And so Europeans tend to like to buy -- everybody loves to cheer for their home team, so Europeans tend to like to buy European private credit as opposed it's much harder if you can even do it to sell U.S. private credit into Europe.

好的。好吧，我只是想說，BSP 非常非常專注於美國，對吧？所以 - Alcentra 在美國的足跡很少，我認為，在 CLO 和其他事情上。所以歐洲人傾向於購買——每個人都喜歡為他們的主隊加油，所以歐洲人傾向於購買歐洲私人信貸，而如果你甚至可以將美國私人信貸賣到歐洲，那就更難了。

And so there can be global products. You can have some of the deals worked on together from a team, some of the research can be shared. But the good news is it was really hard for BSP to sell their products into Europe, and now we have excellent private credit to sell into Europe and even Asia.

因此可以有全球產品。你可以讓團隊一起完成一些交易，一些研究可以共享。但好消息是，BSP 很難將他們的產品銷往歐洲，現在我們擁有良好的私人信用，可以銷往歐洲乃至亞洲。

Thank you. this concludes today's Q&A session. I would now like to hand the call back over to Jenny Johnson, Franklin's President and CEO, for final comments.

謝謝你。今天的問答環節到此結束。我現在想把電話轉給富蘭克林總裁兼首席執行官珍妮約翰遜，以徵求最終意見。

Great. Well, I just want to thank everybody for participating in the call today. And once again, I want to thank our employees for their hard work and remaining focused on our clients, particularly in this type of market environment, and also for supporting each other. We look forward to speaking to you guys again next quarter. And I'd just say enjoy the rest of your summer and stay healthy. Thanks, everybody.

偉大的。好吧，我只想感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。再一次，我要感謝我們的員工辛勤工作並始終專注於我們的客戶，特別是在這種市場環境下，以及相互支持。我們期待下個季度再次與你們交談。我只想說享受剩下的夏天並保持健康。謝謝大家。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

謝謝你。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連接。