日月光投資控股 (ASX) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for attending our earnings release today. Please refer to our safe harbor notice on page 2. All participants consent to having their voices and questions broadcast via participation in this event. If participants do not consent, please disconnect at this time.

感謝您參加我們今天的收益發表會。請參閱第 2 頁的安全港通知。所有參與者均同意透過參與本次活動來傳播他們的聲音和問題。如果參與者不同意，請立即斷開連線。

I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk, and our actual results may differ materially.

我想提醒大家，接下來的演示可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述具有高度風險，我們的實際結果可能有重大差異。

For the purposes of this presentation, dollar figures are generally stated in New Taiwan dollars, unless otherwise indicated. As a Taiwan-based company, our financial information is presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those presented by our subsidiary using Chinese GAAP.

為了本簡報的目的，除非另有說明，美元數字通常以新台幣表示。作為一家台灣公司，我們的財務資訊是依照台灣國際財務報告準則呈現的。採用台灣國際財務報告準則所呈現的結果可能與採用其他會計準則所呈現的結果有重大差異，包括我們的子公司採用中國公認會計準則所呈現的結果。

I'm joined today by Joseph Tung, our CFO. For today's presentation, I will be going over the financial results and company guidance. Joseph will then be able to take your questions during the Q&A session that follows. During the Q&A session, I will be moderating, receiving, and as needed, clarifying and condensing each interaction down to a single question.

今天和我一起參加的是我們的財務長 Joseph Tung。在今天的演講中，我將介紹財務績效和公司指導。約瑟夫將能夠在接下來的問答環節回答您的問題。在問答環節中，我將主持、接收並根據​​需要將每次互動澄清和濃縮為一個問題。

With that, let's get started with the financial results.

有了這些，我們就開始看一下財務結果。

Our first-quarter revenues came in ahead of our original outlooks for both our ATM and EMS businesses. There appeared to be a slight accelerated seasonality from certain customers that emerged during the first quarter, especially as it pertains to our EMS business. We believe there are some customers looking to minimize supply chain volatility by building secure inventory ahead of potential trade tariffs.

我們第一季的 ATM 和 EMS 業務收入均超出了我們最初的預期。第一季度，某些客戶似乎出現了輕微的季節性加速，尤其是與我們的 EMS 業務有關。我們相信，一些客戶希望透過在潛在貿易關稅之前建立安全庫存來最大限度地減少供應鏈波動。

With that said, we are unable to quantify such impact as we do not have a method to ascertain inventory build levels from regular order flow. On the flip side, we also saw some delay in upstream component availability due to the January earthquake in Southern Taiwan.

話雖如此，我們無法量化這種影響，因為我們沒有方法從常規訂單流中確定庫存建設水準。另一方面，由於一月台灣南部發生地震，我們也看到上游組件供應延遲。

Within our ATM business, our leading-edge advanced packaging, or LEAP, services continued its strong growth and were generally full during the quarter. For the first quarter, LEAP services accounted for 10% of our overall ATM revenues as compared to 6% for the full year 2024.

在我們的 ATM 業務中，我們領先的先進封裝（LEAP）服務持續保持強勁成長，並且在本季整體上處於滿載狀態。第一季度，LEAP 服務占我們 ATM 整體營收的 10%，而 2024 年全年這一比例為 6%。

Our test business also continued its strong momentum, growing 2% in the usually seasonally down quarter. Our overall utilization rate came in slightly above our original expectation of 65% for the quarter, with the latter part of the quarter faring better than the beginning of the quarter. Test utilization was full for advanced platforms while being in the 60s for trailing edge capacities.

我們的測試業務也延續了強勁勢頭，在通常季節性下滑的季度中成長了 2%。我們本季的整體利用率略高於原先預期的 65%，且本季後半段的表現優於本季初。先進平台的測試利用率已達到滿載狀態，而後緣容量的測試利用率則在 60 左右。

Our EMS business also came in a bit ahead of expectations. At this point, we believe our EMS business customers may be adjusting order flow patterns for the year. And as a result, our EMS business may be experiencing a potentially shallower seasonal dip for the year.

我們的 EMS 業務也略超出了預期。此時，我們相信我們的 EMS 業務客戶可能正在調整今年的訂單流模式。因此，我們的 EMS 業務今年可能會經歷較淺的季節性下滑。

The overall macro environment has been rather unsettled over the early part of this year. Given that our strategic decisions and investments are evaluated on a long-term basis, these decisions become significantly more difficult with rapidly changing business fundamentals. For us, volatility is the enemy of sound, long-term planning and strategy. But even with such volatility, we can continue to focus on core trends of our industry and the strengths of the company. Technological trends, such as the increasing importance of package-based connective technologies, will continue to persevere regardless of the macro environment.

今年年初，整體宏觀環境較為不穩定。鑑於我們的策略決策和投資都是以長期為基礎進行評估的，因此，隨著業務基本面的快速變化，這些決策變得更加困難。對我們來說，波動性是合理的長期規劃和策略的敵人。但即使有這樣的波動，我們仍然可以繼續關注產業的核心趨勢和公司的優勢。無論宏觀環境如何，基於封裝的連接技術日益重要等技術趨勢仍將持續存在。

The continuous improvement of our process technologies remains paramount to continuing to extend our competitive advantages. From a business perspective, we also continue to believe the assuredness of profitability. And the market sustainability of our product offerings remain the key evaluation points when looking at business opportunities, both small and large.

不斷改進我們的製程技術對於繼續擴大我們的競爭優勢仍然至關重要。從商業角度來看，我們也繼續相信獲利的保證。在尋找商業機會（無論大小）時，我們產品的市場永續性仍然是關鍵的評估點。

In a nutshell, we need to minimize the short-term noise in order to reach the long-term signal. For today, we will attempt to avoid the noisy play by play while continuing to try to offer insights into the strategy and positioning of the company on a longer-term basis.

簡而言之，我們需要盡量減少短期噪音，以便獲得長期訊號。今天，我們將嘗試避免吵雜的逐一介紹，同時繼續嘗試從長期角度深入了解公司的策略和定位。

With that, let's go through the numbers in more detail. Please turn to page 3 where you will find our first quarter consolidated results.

接下來，讓我們更詳細地了解這些數字。請翻到第 3 頁，您將看到我們的第一季綜合業績。

The first quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of $1.64 and basic EPS of $1.75. Consolidated net revenues declined by 9% sequentially and increased 12% year-over-year. We had a gross profit of $24.9 billion with a gross margin of 16.8%.

第一季度，我們實現的完全稀釋每股收益為 1.64 美元，基本每股收益為 1.75 美元。合併淨收入季減 9%，年增 12%。我們的毛利為 249 億美元，毛利率為 16.8%。

Our gross margin improved by 0.4 percentage points sequentially and improved by 1.1 percentage points year-over-year. The sequential improvement in margin is primarily due to foreign exchange fluctuations and the higher ATM product mix. The annual improvement is primarily due to foreign exchange, higher utilization, and beneficial product mix.

我們的毛利率比上一季提高了0.4個百分點，比去年同期提高了1.1個百分點。利潤率的連續改善主要歸因於外匯波動和 ATM 產品組合的增加。年度改善主要歸功於外匯、更高的利用率和有利的產品組合。

Our operating expenses decreased by $0.2 billion sequentially and increased by $1.9 billion annually to $15.2 billion. The sequential decrease in operating expenses is primarily due to lower factory supply and other expenses related to lower consumption during the holiday period, offset by higher labor due to incremental hiring.

我們的營運費用較上季減少 2 億美元，年增 19 億美元，達到 152 億美元。營業費用較上季下降主要由於工廠供應減少以及假期期間消費減少相關的其他費用，但因增加招聘而增加的勞動力成本抵消了這一下降。

The year-over-year increase in operating expenses is primarily attributable to continued R&D staff up and other labor-related costs and geographical site expansion. Our operating expense percentage increased sequentially by 0.8 percentage points and annually by 0.3 percentage points year-over-year to 10.3%.

營業費用的同比增長主要歸因於研發人員的持續增加以及其他與勞動力相關的成本和地理位置的擴張。我們的營業費用百分比較上季增加 0.8 個百分點，較去年同期增加 0.3 個百分點，達到 10.3%。

Operating profit was $9.7 billion, down $1.5 billion sequentially and up $2.2 billion year-over-year. Operating margin declined 0.4 percentage points sequentially and improved 0.9 percentage points year-over-year. During the quarter, we had a net non-operating gain of $0.1 billion. Our non-operating gain for the quarter primarily consists of net foreign exchange hedging activities, profits from associates and other non-operating income, offset in part by net interest expense of $1.3 billion.

營業利潤為 97 億美元，比上一季下降 15 億美元，比去年同期成長 22 億美元。營業利益率較上月下降0.4個百分點，較去年同期上升0.9個百分點。本季度，我們的非營業淨收益為 1 億美元。本季我們的非營業收益主要包括淨外匯對沖活動、來自聯營公司的利潤和其他非營業收入，部分被 13 億美元的淨利息支出所抵銷。

Tax expense for the quarter was $1.9 billion. Due to timing of certain tax expenses, our effective tax rate for the quarter was 20.6%, higher than our full year projection of slightly below 20%. Net income for the quarter was $7.6 billion, representing a decrease of $1.8 billion sequentially and an increase of $1.9 billion year-over-year.

本季稅費為 19 億美元。由於某些稅費發生的時間，本季我們的有效稅率為 20.6%，高於我們全年預測的略低於 20%。本季淨收入為 76 億美元，比上一季減少 18 億美元，比去年同期增加 19 億美元。

The NT dollar depreciated 2% against the US dollar sequentially while depreciating 4.8% annually. From a sequential perspective, we estimate the NT dollar depreciation had a 0.6 percentage point positive impact to the company's gross and operating margins. While from an annual perspective, we estimate the NT dollar depreciation had a 1.4 percentage point positive impact to the company's gross and operating margins.

新台幣兌美元季減2%，年減4.8%。從環比角度來看，我們估計新台幣貶值對公司的毛利率和營業利率產生了0.6個百分點的正面影響。而從年度角度來看，我們估計新台幣貶值對公司的毛利率和營業利率產生了1.4個百分點的正面影響。

On the bottom of the page, we provide key P&L line items without the inclusion of PPA-related expenses. Consolidated gross profit, excluding PPA expenses, would be $25.4 billion, with a 17.2% gross margin. Operating profit would be $10.5 billion with an operating margin of 7.1%. Net profit would be $8.4 billion with a net margin of 5.6%. Basic EPS, excluding PPA expenses, would be $1.93.

在頁面底部，我們提供了不包括 PPA 相關費用的關鍵損益項目。不包括 PPA 費用的綜合毛利將達到 254 億美元，毛利率為 17.2%。營業利益將達 105 億美元，營業利益率為 7.1%。淨利潤將達到 84 億美元，淨利潤率為 5.6%。不包括 PPA 費用的基本每股收益為 1.93 美元。

On page 4 is a graphical presentation of our consolidated quarterly financial performance. Gross margins have been gradually improving, even heading into our seasonally slow first quarter. On the operating margin front, operating expenses are continuing to increase, primarily for LEAP business preparation, labor acquisition, and retention and offshore site expansion costs.

第 4 頁以圖形方式展示了我們的合併季度財務表現。即使進入季節性疲軟的第一季度，毛利率也逐漸提高。在營業利潤率方面，營業費用持續增加，主要用於 LEAP 業務準備、勞動力取得和保留以及離岸站點擴張成本。

On page 5 is our ATM P&L. The ATM revenue reported here contains revenues eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses. For the first quarter of 2025, revenues for our ATM business were $86.7 billion, down $1.7 billion from the previous quarter and up $12.8 billion from the same period last year. This represents a 2% decline sequentially and a 17% increase annually.

第 5 頁是我們的 ATM 損益表。此處報告的 ATM 收入包含在控股公司層級消除的與我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易相關的收入。2025 年第一季度，我們的 ATM 業務營收為 867 億美元，比上一季下降 17 億美元，比去年同期成長 128 億美元。這意味著環比下降 2%，比去年同期增加 17%。

Gross profit for our ATM business was $19.6 billion, down $1 billion sequentially and up $4.1 billion year-over-year. Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 22.6%, down 0.7 percentage points sequentially and up 1.6 percentage points year-over-year. The sequential margin decline was primarily due to softer loading during our seasonally soft first quarter, offset in part by foreign exchange impact. The annual margin improvement is primarily the result of higher loading, product mix and foreign exchange differences, offset by higher utility costs.

我們的 ATM 業務毛利為 196 億美元，較上一季下降 10 億美元，比去年同期成長 41 億美元。ATM業務毛利率為22.6%，季減0.7個百分點，較去年同期上升1.6個百分點。利潤率環比下降主要是由於第一季季節性疲軟導致的裝貨量下降，但外匯影響部分抵消了影響。年度利潤率的提高主要得益於更高的負載、產品組合和外匯差異，但被更高的公用事業成本所抵消。

During the first quarter, operating expenses were $11.3 billion, up $0.1 billion sequentially and $1.8 billion year-over-year. The sequential increase in operating expenses was related to increased headcount. The annual increase is primarily the result of R&D ramp-up and labor-related expenses.

第一季度，營運費用為 113 億美元，比上一季增加 1 億美元，比去年同期增加 18 億美元。營業費用的連續增加與員工人數增加有關。年度成長主要源自於研發投入和勞動相關費用的增加。

Our operating expense percentage for the quarter was 13%, increasing 0.4 percentage points sequentially and up 0.2 percentage points annually. The sequential increase was primarily related to seasonality of revenue, while the annual increase was primarily due to labor ramp-ups preparing for higher leading-edge advanced packaging revenues.

本季我們的營運費用百分比為 13%，比上一季增加 0.4 個百分點，比前一年增加 0.2 個百分點。連續成長主要與收入的季節性有關，而年度成長主要歸因於為更高的尖端先進封裝收入做準備的勞動力增加。

During the first quarter, operating profit was $8.3 billion, representing a sequential decline of $1.1 billion and an annual increase of $2.3 billion. Operating margin was 9.6%, down 1.1 percentage points sequentially, while up 1.4 percentage points year-over-year.

第一季度，營業利潤為 83 億美元，季減 11 億美元，較去年同期增加 23 億美元。營業利益率為 9.6%，較上一季下降 1.1 個百分點，較去年同期上升 1.4 個百分點。

For foreign exchange, we estimate that the NT to US dollar exchange rate potentially had a positive 0.97 percentage point impact to our ATM sequential margins and a positive 2.3 percentage point impact on a year-over-year basis. Without the impact of PPA-related depreciation and amortization, ATM gross profit margin would be 23.2% and operating profit margin would be 10.5%.

對於外匯，我們估計新台幣兌美元的匯率可能會對我們的 ATM 連續利潤率產生 0.97 個百分點的正面影響，對去年同期的利潤率產生 2.3 個百分點的正面影響。不計入PPA相關折舊和攤銷的影響，ATM毛利率為23.2%，營業利益率為10.5%。

On page 6, you'll find a graphical representation of our ATM P&L. On page 7 is our ATM revenue by 3C market segments. You can see here that the Computing segment took a big step-up in terms of relative positioning of applications. This was made more apparent given the stable high-demand nature of AI products, while handsets and other communications-related devices were seasonally impacted.

在第 6 頁，您將看到我們的 ATM 損益表的圖形表示。第 7 頁是我們按 3C 市場細分的 ATM 收入。您可以在這裡看到，計算部分在應用程式的相對定位方面取得了很大的進展。鑑於人工智慧產品穩定的高需求性質，這一點更加明顯，而手機和其他通訊相關設備則受到季節性影響。

On page 8, you will find our ATM revenue by service type. Moves here were generally product mix driven. What is good to note is the testing percentage of our business has sustained at 18%. We continue to believe we can gain market share in testing throughout the year. We now believe we are slightly ahead of plan for increasing our test business.

在第 8 頁，您將看到我們按服務類型劃分的 ATM 收入。這裡的舉措一般是由產品組合驅動的。值得注意的是，我們業務的測試比例一直維持在18%。我們始終相信，我們可以在全年的測試中獲得市場份額。我們現在相信，我們在增加測試業務方面的計劃已經略微領先了。

By the end of the year, our test business should reach between 19% to 20% of our overall ATM revenue. We continue to be the largest provider of outsourced test services in the world, and test is becoming a more strategically critical component of our overall strategy. We believe that as future products become more integrated with multichip and RDL-based packaging, the insertion of incremental test steps during the assembly processes will become increasingly prevalent, potentially disrupting classic wafer probe and final test frameworks.

到今年年底，我們的測試業務應佔 ATM 整體收入的 19% 至 20%。我們繼續成為全球最大的外包測試服務供應商，而測試正在成為我們整體策略中更具策略性的關鍵組成部分。我們相信，隨著未來產品與多晶片和基於 RDL 的封裝整合度越來越高，在組裝過程中插入增量測試步驟將變得越來越普遍，可能會破壞傳統的晶圓探測和最終測試框架。

For example, silicon and organic interposers, like those used on the newest generation of AI chips, are ideally tested pre and post die attach. The post die attach test provides turnkey providers the opportunity to accelerate failure detection ahead of the final test process. Financially, we also believe that the test business is accretive to our overall ATM margins. And as such, almost all acquirable test business is good business.

例如，最新一代 AI 晶片上使用的矽和有機中介層最好在晶片貼裝前後進行測試。晶片貼裝後測試為交鑰匙供應商提供了在最終測試過程之前加速故障檢測的機會。從財務角度來看，我們也相信測試業務可以增加我們整體 ATM 的利潤率。因此，幾乎所有可獲得的測試業務都是好業務。

We remain committed to being aggressive in the test space. We have a target of gaining incremental test market share throughout the year. In particular, we continue to believe that we will start to make significant progress during the back half of 2025 in regards to increasing our AI testing market share.

我們將繼續致力於在測試領域積極進取。我們的目標是全年增加測試市場份額。特別是，我們仍然相信，在 2025 年下半年，我們將在增加 AI 測試市場份額方面開始取得重大進展。

On page 9, you can see the first-quarter results of our EMS business. During the quarter, EMS revenues were $62.3 billion, declining $12.6 billion or 17% sequentially, while increasing $2.9 billion or 5% year-over-year. The sequential revenue decline is generally related to the seasonality of products that we service, while the annual revenue improvement is likely due to the current quarter following a slightly different seasonal pattern.

在第 9 頁，您可以看到我們的 EMS 業務第一季的業績。本季度，EMS 營收為 623 億美元，比上一季下降 126 億美元（下降 17%），比去年同期增加 29 億美元（成長 5%）。連續收入下降通常與我們服務的產品的季節性有關，而年度收入的成長可能是由於本季度遵循略有不同的季節性模式。

Sequentially, our EMS business' gross margin improved 0.6 percentage points to 8.9%. This change was principally the result of product mix. Operating expenses within our EMS business declined $0.3 billion sequentially and while increasing $0.1 billion annually. The sequential expense decline was primarily attributable to lower running costs during the seasonally soft time frame.

我們的EMS業務毛利率季增0.6個百分點至8.9%。這種變化主要是產品組合造成的。我們的 EMS 業務的營運費用環比下降 3 億美元，但年增 1 億美元。費用較上月下降主要歸因於季節性疲軟時期的營運成本降低。

Despite an absolute dollar decline in operating expenses sequentially, our first quarter operating expense percentage of 6.3% was up 0.7 percentage points. Annually, our EMS operating expense percentage was down 0.2 percentage points on higher revenues.

儘管營業費用的絕對金額環比下降，但我們第一季的營業費用百分比為 6.3%，上升了 0.7 個百分點。每年，由於收入增加，我們的 EMS 營運費用百分比下降了 0.2 個百分點。

Operating margin for the first quarter was 2.6%, declining 0.1 percentage points sequentially and year-over-year. The sequential and annual improvements were primarily due to product mix. Our EMS first quarter operating profit was $1.6 billion, down $0.4 billion sequentially, while flat annually.

第一季營業利益率為2.6%，季減0.1個百分點，較去年同期下降0.1個百分點。連續和年度的改善主要歸功於產品組合。我們的 EMS 第一季營業利潤為 16 億美元，季減 4 億美元，比去年同期持平。

You will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application on the bottom of the page. The percentage shifts here are generally related to the seasonal nature of underlying Consumer and Communications products.

您將在頁面底部看到按應用程式劃分的 EMS 收入的圖形表示。這裡的百分比變化通常與基礎消費和通訊產品的季節性有關。

On page 10, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. At the end of the year, we had cash, cash equivalents and current financial assets of $93.5 billion. In preparation for upcoming capital expenditures, our total interest-bearing debt increased by $17.7 billion to $231.6 billion. We anticipate increasing our debt outstanding throughout the year. Total unused credit lines amounted to $358.4 billion.

在第 10 頁，您將找到我們資產負債表中的關鍵項目。截至年底，我們的現金、現金等價物和流動金融資產為 935 億美元。為了準備即將到來的資本支出，我們的總計利息債務增加了 177 億美元，達到 2,316 億美元。我們預計全年未償債務將會增加。未使用的信貸額度總額達3584億美元。

Our EBITDA for the quarter was $27.6 billion. Our net debt to equity this quarter was 41%. As a point of reference, we anticipate that our net debt to equity will be peaking in the third quarter of this year at or near 60%.

本季我們的 EBITDA 為 276 億美元。本季我們的淨債務與股權比率為 41%。作為參考，我們預計我們的淨債務與股權比率將在今年第三季達到峰值，達到或接近 60%。

On page 11, you will find our equipment capital expenditures relative to our EBITDA. Machinery and equipment capital expenditures for the first quarter in US dollars totaled $892 million, of which $395 million were used in packaging operations, $472 million in testing operations, $23 million in EMS operations and $2 million in interconnect material operations and others. In addition to spending on machinery and equipment during the quarter, we also spent $410 million on facilities, which includes land and buildings.

在第 11 頁，您將看到我們的設備資本支出相對於我們的 EBITDA 的比例。第一季機械設備資本支出以美元計算總計8.92億美元，其中3.95億美元用於封裝業務，4.72億美元用於測試業務，0.23億美元用於EMS業務，0.20億美元用於互連材料業務及其他。本季度，除了在機械設備上的支出外，我們還在設施上花費了 4.1 億美元，其中包括土地和建築物。

The machinery and equipment we are investing in this year not only represent capacities allocated for current product demand, they also represent a broader target of servicing the generational evolution of packaging in electronic devices. Future generations of AI, networking and communications have fundamental needs for specification improvements only LEAP can provide.

我們今年投資的機械設備不僅代表了當前產品需求分配的產能，也代表了服務電子設備封裝世代演變的更廣泛目標。未來幾代人工智慧、網路和通訊對規範改進有著根本性的需求，而只有 LEAP 才能提供。

Whether it's the need to move power delivery closer to the package or the need to bring HBM closer to logic dies, or the need to address higher I/O densities and newer generations of future products, all these core trends will require the generational leap in equipment and facilities we are currently installing. And though we continue to possess the ability to adjust capital equipment delivery times, current investment timelines continue to align with capacity needs.

無論是需要將電力輸送移近封裝，還是需要將 HBM 移近邏輯晶片，或者需要解決更高的 I/O 密度和更新一代的未來產品，所有這些核心趨勢都需要我們目前正在安裝的設備和設施實現跨越式發展。儘管我們仍然有能力調整資本設備交付時間，但目前的投資時間表仍與產能需求保持一致。

Heading into the second quarter, product flow appears to be strong. Our leading-edge advanced packaging and testing businesses continue to lead the way. And as we've mentioned, we are seeing some potential for accelerated seasonality and inventory build during the second quarter. And as stated earlier, we are not necessarily able to fully discern between customer inventory build and customer product sell-through.

進入第二季度，產品流通似乎很強勁。我們領先的先進封裝和測試業務繼續保持領先地位。正如我們所提到的，我們看到第二季度季節性加速和庫存增加的可能性。如前文所述，我們不一定能夠完全辨別客戶庫存建置和客戶產品銷售情況。

Avoiding a potentially thornier tariff environment by accelerating production would appear to be rational. However, it comes with a large caveat that wafers must have been completed, substrates are ready to go, and we have the proper tooling and capacity to support the acceleration. So not all who may wish to accelerate are able to do so.

透過加速生產來避免可能更加棘手的關稅環境似乎是合理的。然而，它也有一個很大的要求，那就是晶圓必須已經完成，基板必須已經準備就緒，並且我們擁有適當的工具和產能來支援加速。因此，並非所有希望加速的人都能實現這一目標。

As such, there is some impact to our ATM business, but such impact is relatively limited. Looking beyond the second quarter is probably impractical at this time. But we, at this moment, have not seen any out of the ordinary adjustments, which may or may not be meaningful.

因此，我們的 ATM 業務會受到一定影響，但影響相對有限。目前來看，展望第二季之後的情況可能不太現實。但目前我們還沒有看到任何不同尋常的調整，這些調整可能有意義，也可能沒意義。

With that, we would like to summarize our outlook for the second quarter of 2025 as follows.

因此，我們想總結一下對 2025 年第二季的展望。

For our ATM business, in NT dollar terms, our ATM second-quarter 2025 revenues should grow by 9% to 11% quarter-over-quarter. Our ATM second-quarter gross margin should increase by 140 to 180 basis points quarter-over-quarter. For our EMS business, in NT dollar terms, our EMS second quarter 2025 revenues should decline 10% year-over-year. Our EMS second-quarter 2025 operating margin should decline by 100 basis points year-over-year.

對於我們的 ATM 業務，以新台幣計算，我們的 2025 年第二季 ATM 收入應比上一季成長 9% 至 11%。我們的 ATM 第二季毛利率應比上一季增加 140 至 180 個基點。對於我們的 EMS 業務，以新台幣計算，我們的 2025 年第二季 EMS 收入應年減 10%。我們的 EMS 2025 年第二季營業利潤率將年減 100 個基點。

During the Q&A session that follows, we would appreciate if questions can be kept concise and asked one at a time. I will be receiving each question and repeating the asked question to Joseph. (Operator Instructions) Thank you.

在接下來的問答環節中，如果問題能夠簡潔並且一次只提出一個問題，我們將不勝感激。我將接收每個問題並向約瑟夫重複提出的問題。（操作員指示）謝謝。

Gokul Hariharan.

戈庫爾·哈里哈蘭。

My first question is on test. First of all, when you talk about increasing AI test market share, is it mainly for the dominant GPU platform that you're referring to in the second half of this year?

我的第一個問題是關於測試的。首先，您說的增加AI測試市場份額，主要是指今年下半年占主導地位的GPU平台嗎？

And second, on test, I think I saw that the test CapEx even in Q1 is almost like $500 million, following on from the $900 million that we spent last year. So we are starting to spend very heavy CapEx on test. Joseph, can you outline how we should think about the economic return framework for these test investments? And how does that compare to your target ROE for the overall business, et cetera?

其次，關於測試，我認為我發現即使在第一季度，測試資本支出也幾乎達到 5 億美元，而去年我們花了 9 億美元。因此，我們開始在測試上投入大量資本支出。約瑟夫，您能概述一下我們應該如何考慮這些測試投資的經濟回報框架嗎？這與您整體業務的目標 ROE 等相比如何？

So you're looking for a summary in terms of what, in particular, is ramping up in the back half of the year and also how that necessarily impacts our overall CapEx spending for test, is that correct?

所以，您正在尋找一份關於下半年具體增長情況的總結，以及這對我們測試的整體資本支出有何影響，對嗎？

Yes. Also, I think some economic framework given the test CapEx is now becoming pretty meaningful. I think even a single quarter CapEx seems to be pretty chunky now.

是的。此外，我認為，考慮到測試資本支出，現在一些經濟框架變得非常有意義。我認為現在即使單一季度的資本支出似乎也相當龐大。

Yes. I think we have been, and we will continue to be very, very aggressive in terms of making our test investment and aiming at continue to expand our market share in the test area. I think we have been making a lot of progress. As you can see, for the past two, three years, we have been growing our test portion of the business from 16% all the way to 18%. And we are looking at closing into 20% by the end of the year.

是的。我認為我們一直並且將繼續非常積極地進行測試投資，並致力於繼續擴大我們在測試領域的市場份額。我認為我們已經取得了很大進展。正如您所看到的，在過去的兩三年裡，我們的測試業務份額從 16% 一路增長到 18%。我們的目標是到今年年底達到 20%。

In terms of the composition of the test business, I think aside from kind of the general market test, special emphasis is also put on the AI chips testing or more advanced testing as well. On that, I think in terms of wafer sort of, we have been executing as planned and progress are being made. And I think the focus will also be turned on the final test of these chips. And we are in the process of lining up and also aligning our capacity. And we expect to see progress in the second half of the year in terms of penetrating into this very important market for us.

從測試業務的組成來看，我認為除了一般的市場測試之外，還特別重視人工智慧晶片測試或更先進的測試。就這一點而言，我認為就晶圓而言，我們一直在按計劃執行，並且正在取得進展。我認為焦點也將集中在這些晶片的最終測試上。我們正在進行排列和調整我們的產能。我們預計今年下半年我們將在進入這個對我們非常重要的市場方面取得進展。

In terms of economics, I think test, of course, as Ken mentioned, it has a higher margin. So it's a margin-accretive business for us. In terms of return, I think it has a very similar return to the leading-edge packaging on a financial point standpoint. CapEx-wise, we will make the necessary investment in our CapEx, not just on the equipment itself, but also on the facility that we need to put in to address this demand.

從經濟角度來看，我認為測試當然有更高的利潤，正如肯所提到的。所以這對我們來說是一項增加利潤的業務。就回報而言，我認為從財務角度來看，它的回報與前沿包裝非常相似。就資本支出而言，我們將對資本支出進行必要的投資，不僅用於設備本身，還用於滿足此需求所需投入的設施。

Gokul, does that answer your question?

Gokul，這回答了你的問題嗎？

Yes. That's pretty clear. Maybe my second question is on your US investments. Any plans there given your partner, the large foundry has already announced two advanced packaging fabs in the US?

是的。這很清楚。我的第二個問題是關於您在美國的投資。您的合作夥伴有什麼計畫嗎？這家大型代工廠已經宣佈在美國建立兩家先進封裝廠？

Also, one of your competitors seems to have gone ahead and invested a fair bit of CapEx in their US fab, and they seem to be positioning themselves as a US partner for your kind of large foundry partner. So how do you think about US investments from here on, given environment seems to have changed a little bit? When does ASE need to start preparing for some US capacity, especially for your LEAP, leading-edge advanced packaging, portfolio?

此外，您的一個競爭對手似乎已經在其美國晶圓廠投入了相當多的資本支出，他們似乎將自己定位為您這種大型代工合作夥伴的美國合作夥伴。那麼，鑑於環境似乎已經發生了一些變化，您如何看待今後對美國的投資？ASE 何時需要開始為美國產出做準備，尤其是針對您的 LEAP、尖端先進封裝產品組合？

Okay. You're looking for a summary or in terms of an overall framework for our view on the US investment, right?

好的。您正在尋找我們對美國投資的看法的總結或總體框架，對嗎？

Yes.

是的。

I think we were invited by the customer to evaluate the possibility of having some operation to support their business in the United States. Currently, we are engaging in discussion and are evaluating the opportunities with interest. There are no further details so far in terms of the actual investment size or the timing of it. But any decision that we will eventually make will be made with economic viability.

我認為我們是受客戶邀請來評估開展一些業務以支持其在美國的業務的可能性。目前，我們正在進行討論並評估這些機會。目前，關於實際投資規模和時間還沒有更多細節。但我們最終做出的任何決定都將以經濟可行性為依據。

Is that going to be similar stuff to what you do in Taiwan right now? Or is it going to be like different, maybe more advanced packaging technology compared to what you're investing in? Just wanted to understand, is it just geographic diversification? Or is it like completely different products that you think would be invested in, in the US?

這和您現在在台灣做的事情類似嗎？或者與您所投資的相比，它是否會有所不同，也許是更先進的封裝技術？只是想了解一下，這僅僅是地理多樣化嗎？或者您認為它與美國值得投資的產品完全不同嗎？

I think it will be an extension of what we are offering here. But in terms of eventually what exactly that we will be doing or what kind of investment we will be making, it really depends on the situation and also the economics of it. So I think at this point, we don't really have much detail to share with everybody, except the fact that we are being invited and we are evaluating the situation here.

我認為這將是我們在此提供的服務的延伸。但就我們最終將做什麼或進行什麼樣的投資而言，這實際上取決於具體情況及其經濟效益。所以我認為目前我們確實沒有太多細節可以與大家分享，除了我們受到邀請並且正在評估這裡的情況之外。

Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Bruce Lu。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Okay. Just one quick clarification from Gokul's question. Does your economic value in US, when you do the evaluation, does this -- does geopolitical considered as a one of economic value?

好的。我只想對 Gokul 的問題做一個快速澄清。當您對美國的經濟價值進行評估時，是否將地緣政治視為經濟價值之一？

Not really. I think the -- whatever -- I'm sorry, Ken, do you want to repeat the question?

並不真地。我認為——不管怎樣——對不起，肯，你想重複這個問題嗎？

No, please go ahead.

不，請繼續。

Anyways, I think it's really for our customers' request. Whatever we eventually will do is really offering our support to our customer and try to meet our customers' demand in any way we can, provided that it's a feasible or economically feasible option for us.

不管怎樣，我認為這確實是為了滿足我們客戶的要求。無論我們最終做什麼，都是真正為客戶提供支持，並盡力以任何方式滿足客戶的需求，只要這對我們來說是可行或經濟可行的選擇。

Okay. So my second question is for the -- again, go back to the AI testing. You guys mentioned that you are confident to win like more than 50% market share in AI testing. Can you provide us some update in terms of your market share situation in different products, such as GPU versus ASIC, or final test versus wafer test or burn-in? What kind -- do you see any disproportional market share? Or where do you see the -- your growth driver in this AI testing business?

好的。所以我的第二個問題是──再次回到人工智慧測試。你們提到有信心贏得人工智慧測試 50% 以上的市場份額。您能否向我們提供一些不同產品的市場份額情況的最新消息，例如 GPU 與 ASIC，或最終測試與晶圓測試或老化？哪一種——您是否看到任何不成比例的市場份額？或者您認為人工智慧測試業務的成長動力在哪裡？

So Bruce, you're looking for a summary in terms of our market position relative to GPUs or in total?

那麼，布魯斯，您是想了解我們相對於 GPU 或整體的市場地位的總結嗎？

Well, I want to know like the market share in different products.

嗯，我想知道不同產品的市場佔有率。

I don't think we have a market share breakdown between different products. I think the overall emphasis is really we want to expand our test business in whichever area, I think legacy or more advanced or leading edge, it's across the board. We're making efforts to penetrate this market further.

我認為我們沒有不同產品之間的市佔率分佈。我認為整體重點是我們真正想在任何一個領域擴展我們的測試業務，無論是傳統的還是更先進的還是前沿的，這都是全面的。我們正在努力進一步滲透這個市場。

And we have been making a lot of progress, not just on the AI chips, but as an overall test business, which is being shown in the percentage of our revenue. As I said, this has grown to 18% and we're going to reach 20% pretty soon. And this effort will continue.

我們已經取得了很大進展，不僅是在人工智慧晶片方面，而且在整體測試業務方面，這體現在我們收入的百分比上。正如我所說，這一比例已增長至 18%，並且很快就會達到 20%。而這項努力將會持續下去。

But in terms of AI chips, I think we're really the dominant player in terms of wafer sort, and we're moving in very aggressively into final test as well. And we will see some results coming in, in the later part of the year, and we expect to grow this part of the business very aggressively next year as well.

但就人工智慧晶片而言，我認為我們在晶圓分類方面確實佔據主導地位，而且我們也在積極地進入最終測試階段。我們將在今年下半年看到一些成果，我們預計明年這部分業務也將大幅成長。

Does that answer your question, Bruce?

這回答了你的問題嗎，布魯斯？

Yes. So my second question again is for the long-term CoWos demand. There is a lot of noise about the CoWos demand, and we do see some capacity planning changes or fluctuation in TSMC. Does that -- what does that change for your CoWos or similar related capacity expansion plan for later part of this year or in 2026?

是的。所以我的第二個問題是關於長期的 CoWos 需求。關於 CoWos 需求的討論很多，我們確實看到台積電的一些產能規劃變化或波動。這是否會對您今年下半年或 2026 年的 CoWos 或類似產能擴張計畫產生什麼影響？

Bruce, you're looking for a view on our leading-edge advanced packaging road maps, in particular, our products, our focus-based products. Is that correct?

布魯斯，您想了解我們領先的先進封裝路線圖，特別是我們的產品、我們重點關注的產品。對嗎？

I want to make it clear that we do see the fluctuation in terms of the advanced packaging demand in one of your major partner in TSMC. And does that have a secondary impact to your business? Or do you change any of your plan because of that?

我想明確指出的是，我們確實看到你們的主要合作夥伴之一台積電的先進封裝需求出現波動。這對您的業務有二次影響嗎？還是你因此改變了你的任何計畫？

So far, we haven't seen anything that's out of the ordinary. I think the things are going as planned. And in terms of leading edge, I think we're still in a catch-up mode in terms of building our capacity to meet the demand. And as our foundry partner has mentioned, it has a long-term or 5-year CAGR of 45%. And we are also a true believer of the long-term prospect of this AI-related growth.

到目前為止，我們還沒有發現任何異常情況。我認為事情正在按計劃進行。就領先優勢而言，我認為我們在建立滿足需求的能力方面仍處於追趕模式。正如我們的代工合作夥伴所提到的，它的長期或 5 年複合年增長率為 45%。我們也堅信人工智慧相關成長的長期前景。

And more importantly is that it's not just AI itself, but the AI-generated demand for other products as well as the AI adoption expands. So we're not going to -- we're going to change our course in terms of making the necessary investment in time to meet this growing demand, not just on AI itself, but on the overall. So right now, we're not seeing any major behavioral changes among our customers. And therefore, for this year, we are not making any changes. I don't think anything structural -- any structural changes is warranted at this point.

更重要的是，這不僅是人工智慧本身，還有人工智慧對其他產品產生的需求以及人工智慧應用的擴大。因此，我們不會改變我們的方針，及時進行必要的投資以滿足日益增長的需求，不僅是對人工智慧本身，而是對整個領域。所以現在，我們還沒有看到客戶的行為有任何重大變化。因此，今年我們不會做任何改變。我認為目前不需要進行任何結構性改變。

So we will just go ahead with whatever we set out to do. And we believe that there's going to be short-term uncertainties or fluctuations, but the longer-term direction remains the same. And we're making all our investments according to that.

因此，我們將繼續執行我們計劃要做的事情。我們認為短期內會出現不確定性或波動，但長期方向不變。我們所有的投資都是按照這個原則進行的。

Does that answer your question, Bruce?

這回答了你的問題嗎，布魯斯？

Yes.

是的。

All right. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

陳查理 (Charlie Chan)，摩根士丹利。

So first of all, I wanted to know your 3D IC technology development. I think the similar at your foundry partner is SoIC. So I'm not sure when the chip migrates to 2-nanometer or whether you're receiving more business opportunity for the 3D IC packaging. And can we get a sense about your investments and potential revenue contribution next year?

首先，我想了解你們的 3D IC 技術發展。我認為您的代工合作夥伴提供的類似產品是 SoIC。所以我不確定晶片何時會遷移到 2 奈米，或者您是否會獲得更多 3D IC 封裝的商機。我們能否了解一下您的投資和明年的潛在收入貢獻？

Charlie, you're looking for an update in terms of our overall positioning within the 3D IC framework, right?

查理，您正在尋找我們在 3D IC 框架內的整體定位的更新，對嗎？

Yes, because one of the very big US recently, high profile, talked about its 2-nanometer chip at your foundry partner. So we heard that the packaging could leverage some 3D IC technology, right? So wondering whether you can seize this opportunity, and also how big the revenue contribution could be?

是的，因為最近美國一家非常大的廠商高調地向你們的代工夥伴談到了它的 2 奈米晶片。所以我們聽說封裝可以利用一些 3D IC 技術，對嗎？所以想知道您是否可以抓住這個機會，以及收入貢獻能有多大？

We really don't have much of a clarity in terms of when or how these new packages will come on stream and what kind of volume we can expect maybe next year and onwards. What we can do is not just on the 3D IC, I think a lot of the advanced technology that's now in play, including 3D IC, including CPO, including panel, I think we are all putting a lot of resources in this.

我們確實不太清楚這些新方案何時或如何投入使用，以及明年及以後我們可以預期的產量是多少。我們能做的不僅僅是在3D IC上，我認為現在很多先進的技術都在發揮作用，包括3D IC，包括CPO，包括面板，我想我們都在其中投入了大量的資源。

As you can see, our R&D investment has been increasing year-over-year. not just on CoWoS itself, but also on this upcoming technology. We need to prepare ourselves and we are forming very strong alliance with different parties, also engaging -- very active engagement with our foundry partner as well as our customers to ready ourselves for this technology when they come on stream. So our strategy is really to prepare ourselves. And when the volume comes, be ready.

正如您所看到的，我們的研發投入逐年增加。不僅僅是關於 CoWoS 本身，還有關於這項即將推出的技術。我們需要做好準備，我們正在與各方建立非常強大的聯盟，同時也積極地與我們的代工合作夥伴以及客戶合作，為這項技術投入使用做好準備。所以我們的策略其實是做好準備。當音量達到時，請做好準備。

Okay. And if I may ask a second one would be the common tariff question, right? So beforehand, do you see any kind of pull-in given the tariff? And also, do you see second half could be very, very moderate given kind of that pull-in in first half already, resulting in very flattish second half growth?

好的。我可以問第二個問題，是關於常見關稅的問題，對嗎？那麼在此之前，您是否認為關稅會帶來任何形式的拉力？此外，考慮到上半年已經出現的拉動，您是否認為下半年的成長會非常非常溫和，導致下半年的成長非常平緩？

Charlie, you're looking for a view on the tariff impact on us and then how that reflects various timelines in our business, right? Is that correct?

查理，您想了解關稅對我們的影響，以及它如何反映我們業務的各個時間表，對嗎？對嗎？

Indeed, indeed. Yes, because your foundry partners kind of said there's no behavior change. But two of them all guided very, very strong second quarter and very -- kind of implying very slow second half. So I'm wondering, because the back end is even closer to customers, right? So we're looking for your view.

確實，確實。是的，因為你的代工夥伴表示沒有行為改變。但其中兩位都預測第二季將會非常強勁，而下半年則會非常緩慢。所以我很好奇，因為後端更接近客戶，對嗎？因此，我們期待您的意見。

Yes, we do have a pretty strong second quarter. And that's, I think, something that we can -- we still have high confidence on that. But when it comes to second half, I mean, I really -- I wish I have a better answer, but I really don't have a bigger crystal ball than you do. So how do we mitigate this risk? I think the first thing is to really understand what the risk is.

是的，我們的第二季表現確實相當強勁。我認為這是我們能夠做到的——我們對此仍然充滿信心。但當談到下半場時，我的意思是，我真的——我希望我有一個更好的答案，但我真的沒有比你更大的水晶球。那我們該如何減輕這種風險呢？我認為首先要真正了解風險是什麼。

Until the dust is more settled, I think it's very, very difficult for us to make any prediction. Whatever prediction I make is going to be the wrong one at this point. So I'll refrain from making any real comments or substance for second half.

在塵埃落定之前，我認為我們很難做出任何預測。無論我做出什麼預測，現在看來都是錯的。因此，對於下半部分，我將避免發表任何真正的評論或實質內容。

Yes. But just want to ask is that do you see kind of pull-in? Or is this just some market speculation, and customers they just operate as usual?

是的。但只是想問一下，您是否看到了某種吸引力？或者這只是一些市場猜測，而客戶他們只是照常運作？

Well, I think it's very normal or reasonable that there will be some pull-in during this first half. But in terms of -- like Ken is trying to explain, there's still limitations in terms of capacity and readiness to entertain all these supposed to be pull-in demand. So it's very, very difficult for us to quantify how much of our growth in the first half is really coming from pull-in.

嗯，我認為在上半場出現一些拉動是非常正常或合理的。但就肯試圖解釋的那樣，在容量和準備方面仍然存在限制，無法滿足所有這些所謂的吸引需求。因此，我們很難量化上半年的成長有多少真正來自於拉動。

And there are also factors affecting the quarter's performances, including we are being put on the whitelist. So there will be some business shifting to us because of that. So it's a combination of a lot of things.

還有一些因素影響了本季的表現，包括我們被列入白名單。因此，有些業務將會轉移到我們這裡。所以它是很多因素的結合。

But as we said earlier, at this point, aside from these sporadic pull-ins, we're not seeing any major behavioral changes or forecast from our customers at this point. So I think the best thing we can do is really to stay on course and just do whatever we set out to do for the year and stay nimble and responsive to whatever changes that's coming ahead of us.

但正如我們之前所說，目前，除了這些零星的吸引之外，我們還沒有看到客戶有任何重大的行為變化或預測。因此，我認為我們能做的最好的事情就是堅持下去，做好我們今年計劃要做的事情，並保持靈活，對即將發生的任何變化做出反應。

Sunny Lin, UBS.

瑞銀的 Sunny Lin。

Could you hear me?

你聽見我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

So my first question is on EMS. So if I calculate correctly, your guidance basically imply your Q2 EMS sales could drop sequentially. I know earlier you mentioned there is some earlier seasonality for build in Q1 given the pull-in for tariffs. But could you share a bit more color on why there's a pull-in in Q1? But for Q2, now there's a 90-day delay, but we have started to see orders maybe dropping off in Q2 already?

我的第一個問題是關於 EMS 的。因此，如果我計算正確的話，您的指導基本上意味著您的第二季 EMS 銷售額可能會連續下降。我知道您之前提到過，考慮到關稅的拉動，第一季的建設會有一些提前的季節性。但是您能否進一步解釋一下第一季出現拉動的原因？但對於第二季來說，現在已經有 90 天的延遲，但我們已經開始看到第二季的訂單可能已經下降了？

So Sunny, your question relates to our view on what is causing the movement in terms of our Q2 revenues. Is that correct?

所以 Sunny，你的問題與我們對導致第二季收入變動的原因的看法有關。對嗎？

That's right.

這是正確的。

I think the pattern is a typical seasonality pattern. Second quarter is always the slowest quarter for us in terms of EMS. What Ken mentioned earlier on is that, for the first half, we were entering these down quarters. This time around, the dip is a bit shallower than before or than previous years because of some of the pull-ins that has been happening in not just first quarter, but also second quarter. But still, second quarter is down quarter, is the lowest quarter for us.

我認為這種模式是典型的季節性模式。就 EMS 而言，第二季始終是我們業務最慢的一個季度。肯之前提到，上半年我們正進入低迷時期。這一次，由於不僅在第一季度，而且在第二季度也出現了一些拉動，因此跌幅比以前或前幾年都要小一些。但第二季度仍然是一個下滑的季度，對我們來說是最低的一個季度。

Got it. And a quick follow-up for EMS. Last year, your largest customer had earlier built for their new products. So now based on your Q2 guidance, there is no earlier build for this year, right?

知道了。並對 EMS 進行快速跟進。去年，你們最大的客戶已經提前做好了新產品的準備。那麼現在根據您的第二季度指導，今年沒有更早的建設，對嗎？

I can summarize your question, but I can pretty much answer it for you at this point. I don't think we can really comment on that customer per se. Do you have a different question to ask?

我可以總結一下你的問題，但目前我已經可以基本回答你了。我認為我們無法對該客戶本身做出評論。您還有其他問題想問嗎？

Yes, no problem. So maybe switching gear to your profitability and CapEx. I recall maybe two quarters ago, you mentioned that for 2025, as you start to ramp more sales from advanced packaging, the second half gross margin should be higher than first half. Although now I understand there's some macro uncertainty for second half, but does that gross margin guidance still hold?

是的，沒問題。因此，也許可以轉向您的獲利能力和資本支出。我記得大概兩個季度前，您提到，到 2025 年，隨著先進封裝的銷售額開始增加，下半年的毛利率應該會高於上半年。雖然現在我知道下半年存在一些宏觀不確定性，但毛利率指引是否仍然有效？

And then for your CapEx, you spent quite a bit in Q1. And so for 2025 full year, are you still guiding $2.5 billion to $2.6 billion CapEx for full year? Or should we expect a bit higher CapEx?

然後就您的資本支出而言，您在第一季花費了相當多的資金。那麼，對於 2025 年全年，您是否仍指導全年資本支出為 25 億美元至 26 億美元？或者我們應該預期資本支出會更高一些？

Sunny, you're asking for our seasonal outlook in terms of how we would normally expect a peak seasonal gross margin level, right, especially pertaining to our leading-edge advanced packaging ramps. Is that correct?

Sunny，您詢問的是我們對季節性毛利率高峰的預期，特別是關於我們領先的先進封裝坡道的季節性展望。對嗎？

Yes. So basically, directionally, will gross margin trend up in the second half with higher advanced packaging contribution, and also CapEx guidance for 2025?

是的。那麼從方向來看，隨著先進封裝貢獻的增加以及 2025 年資本支出指引的提高，下半年毛利率是否會呈現上升趨勢？

As I said, we're not making any changes for the year's projection at this point, and that's on the revenue as well as on CapEx for the year. And I think in terms of progress that we're making, I think we're a bit of moving -- our performance is a bit ahead of originally expecting. In terms of second quarter, I think the overall utilization will be around 70%, and we'll reach the 70% hurdle threshold earlier than what we were expecting.

正如我所說，我們目前不會對今年的預測做出任何更改，包括今年的收入和資本支出。我認為就我們所取得的進展而言，我們已經取得了一些進展——我們的表現比最初預期的要好一些。就第二季而言，我認為整體利用率將在 70% 左右，我們將比預期更早達到 70% 的門檻。

And as such, we were saying that second half, our margin will get back into the structural margin range, but that seems to be happening earlier. We will start seeing that starting from second quarter. And for the whole year, I think we will also be meeting our target in putting our margin back into the structural range. And second half, short of any major surprises, I think our margin will go back to the midpoint of our structural margin level. I think that remains unchanged.

因此，我們說過，下半年我們的利潤率將回到結構性利潤率範圍內，但這似乎發生得更早。我們將從第二季開始看到這一點。就全年而言，我認為我們也將實現我們的目標，將利潤率恢復到結構性範圍內。下半年，如果不出現任何重大意外，我認為我們的利潤率將回到結構性利潤率水準的中點。我認為這一點沒有改變。

Laura Chen, Citigroup.

花旗集團的 Laura Chen。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

I recall that last time we talked about like $1.6 billion leading-edge advanced packaging revenue for this year. Just wondering that based on Q1 achievement and also the Q2 outlook, what kind of achievement we already have right now? As we know that from our foundry partner, they have technology migration, say, like from the CoWos-S to CoWos-R or L. So will that have any implication to our advanced packaging revenue ramping up? That's my first question.

我記得上次我們談到今年尖端先進封裝的收入約為 16 億美元。只是想知道，基於第一季的成就以及第二季的展望，我們現在已經取得了什麼樣的成就？我們從代工合作夥伴那裡了解到，他們進行了技術遷移，例如從 CoWos-S 遷移到 CoWos-R 或 L。這對我們先進封裝收入的成長有何影響？這是我的第一個問題。

Laura, you're asking for an update in terms of our leading-edge advanced packaging, in terms of the revenue and then the shape of the ramp at this point, right? Is that correct?

勞拉，您要求提供有關我們尖端先進封裝的最新信息，包括收入以及目前的產量增長情況，對嗎？對嗎？

Yes, yes. Yes.

是的，是的。是的。

There's really no change at this point. I think we are moving ahead with our original plan, both on the overall as well as on the leading edge. We are making the necessary investments. We are not cutting our CapEx at this point. And we are set out to do -- to reach our revenue target on leading edge as well for the year. And in terms of different types of CoWoS, I think we have our capacity ready for whatever the package type that's needed. We will have our capacity aligned for that.

目前確實沒有任何變化。我認為我們正在按照原計劃前進，無論是總體上還是在前沿方面。我們正在進行必要的投資。目前我們不會削減資本支出。我們的目標是在今年實現領先的收入目標。就不同類型的 CoWoS 而言，我認為我們已經準備好滿足任何所需封裝類型的需求。我們將為此調整我們的能力。

Okay. Very clear. And also, my second question, again, is related to the testing. We know that we have set the objective, the target, to ramp up the internal testing revenue contribution. But just wondering that for further more upside, can we assume that is mostly coming from the GPU or AI accelerator? Or is it also including some of the other application, like a smartphone?

好的。非常清楚。此外，我的第二個問題也與測驗有關。我們知道我們已經設定了目標，即增加內部測試收入貢獻。但只是想知道，為了進一步提高收益，我們是否可以假設這主要來自 GPU 或 AI 加速器？或者它還包括一些其他應用程序，例如智慧型手機？

Laura, you're asking about who we're targeting in terms of expanding our overall test, is that correct?

勞拉，你問的是我們在擴大整體測試方面針對的對像是誰，對嗎？

Right. Yes. And also, I'm just wondering that, can it also count into our like leading -- some of our like leading-edge advanced packaging revenue or it's separate? Because as we know that sometimes it's more like a turnkey total service for the whole OSAT process.

正確的。是的。而且，我只是想知道，它是否也算入我們的領先 - 我們的一些領先的先進封裝收入，還是單獨計算？因為我們知道，有時它更像是整個 OSAT 流程的交鑰匙全套服務。

I think it's an all-out effort trying to grab as much market share as possible throughout the whole test arena. Of course, there's going to be extra effort on the AI, or the leading-edge test and necessary investment will be made. And we have strong confidence that we will be making a lot of progress going forward.

我認為這是在整個測試領域全力以赴搶佔盡可能多的市場份額。當然，在人工智慧方面還需要付出額外的努力，或進行前沿測試和必要的投資。我們堅信，未來我們將取得巨大進步。

Things will start happening, particularly on the final test of it, we will have maybe a lot of headwinds starting for the second half of the year. We're in the process of preparing our capacity and also going through qualification and so on and so forth. So we're expecting business to start coming in, in the second half of the year.

事情將會開始發生，特別是在最後的考驗中，從今年下半年開始我們可能會遇到很多阻力。我們正在進行產能準備，同時也進行資格審查等等。因此，我們預計業務將在今年下半年開始出現。

It's an all-out initiative. I think if you have to make a comparison, I think what we're trying to do is not just leveraging on our turnkey capability as much as possible to get the test business part of it. But also, we will be putting a lot of effort in getting the pure test business as well.

這是一項全力以赴的舉措。我認為如果必須進行比較的話，我們所嘗試做的不僅僅是盡可能地利用我們的交鑰匙能力來獲得測試業務部分。但同時，我們也將投入大量精力去獲得純測試業務。

Brad Lin, BofA.

美國銀行的布拉德林（Brad Lin）。

I have two questions. My first question would be mainly related to tariff. So if the new tariffs are really to be implemented, particularly on the semiconductors, does ASE expect to absorb part of the additional cost? And also, given that a significant portion of your EMS manufacturing is currently in China, what strategies are in place to reduce the potential tariff exposure?

我有兩個問題。我的第一個問題主要涉及關稅。那麼，如果真的要實施新的關稅，特別是針對半導體，日月光是否希望吸收部分額外成本？此外，鑑於目前貴公司很大一部分 EMS 製造業務都在中國，您採取了哪些策略來降低潛在的關稅風險？

Brad, your first question relates to the tariff and the cost, whether we're going to be absorbing any costs and then also how our EMS business would react in such situations, correct?

布拉德，您的第一個問題與關稅和成本有關，我們是否會承擔任何成本，以及我們的 EMS 業務在這種情況下會如何反應，對嗎？

Exactly.

確切地。

I don't know how much we need to absorb, but I do know adjusting our prices is not the solution to the tariff problem. So I don't think that's really an option. In terms of our -- I think most of the direct exposure to the US is very minimum from a group perspective. I think only less than 10% of our EMS business shipment is going directly to the US, and that can be managed through moving some of the parts to other locations that we have.

我不知道我們需要吸收多少，但我知道調整價格不是解決關稅問題的方法。所以我不認為這真的是一個選擇。就我們而言——我認為從團體角度來看，對美國的直接影響非常小。我認為我們 EMS 業務中只有不到 10% 的貨物直接運往美國，而這可以透過將部分零件轉移到我們的其他地點來實現。

In terms of ATM, we have really very, very minimum direct shipment to the US. So whatever the tariff will be, I think, right now, it's very, very difficult to estimate what kind of an impact it will have on the overall. All I can say is if there is an impact, it's going to impact our competitors a lot more than we do.

就 ATM 而言，我們確實只有極少量的貨物直接運往美國。因此，無論關稅是多少，我認為，現在都很難估計它會對整體產生什麼樣的影響。我只能說，如果有影響，它對我們的競爭對手的影響將比對我們更大。

Got it. Got it. My second question would be, well, switch gear to the general demand of the industry, such as consumer electronics, industrial and automotive. And do you anticipate a recovery, particularly in the industrial and auto segments, in the second half of the year? And also compared to three months ago, are we more optimistic or less optimistic on consumer electronics?

知道了。知道了。我的第二個問題是，好吧，轉換到行業的普遍需求，例如消費性電子、工業和汽車。您是否預計今年下半年會出現復甦，特別是工業和汽車領域？與三個月前相比，我們對消費性電子產品的看法是更樂觀還是不那麼樂觀？

Brad, your question relates to our view of the overall general demand of electronics, including automotive and consumer-related products. Is that correct?

布拉德，你的問題與我們對電子產品整體需求的看法有關，包括汽車和消費相關產品。對嗎？

Yes.

是的。

I think there's a general consensus that other than maybe automotive, the other sectors are gradually recovering. In terms of automotive, I think on the high-end, automotive actually is having a much better momentum at this point. But the legacy, the MCUs and the lower end stuff, is still going through some level of inventory correction at this point. So from our own business portfolio perspective, I think automotive, we will see growth in this area for this year as well.

我認為大家普遍認為，除了汽車產業之外，其他產業也逐漸復甦。就汽車而言，我認為高端汽車目前的發展勢頭實際上要好得多。但傳統的 MCU 和低階產品目前仍在經歷一定程度的庫存調整。因此，從我們自己的業務組合角度來看，我認為汽車產業今年也將成長。

(Operator Instructions) Jason Tsang, CL Securities.

（操作員指示） Jason Tsang，CL Securities。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

I want to follow up the EMS questions in terms of your Q2 revenue. Can you give us more color in terms of each of different sectors, revenue outlook or guidance in Q2? Which sector do you expect probably can have a sequential growth? Or all the sector will drop in Q2?

我想就您第二季的收入跟進有關 EMS 的問題。您能否就各個不同行業、第二季度的收入前景或指導向我們提供更多細節？您預計哪個行業可能會連續成長？或者第二季整個產業都會下跌？

Yes. And you're looking for characterization in terms of market segment related to our Q2 revenues, right? Is that correct?

是的。您正在尋找與我們第二季營收相關的市場區隔特徵，對嗎？對嗎？

Yes, yes.

是的，是的。

Hang on just a sec.

稍等一下。

I think this is a very difficult question to answer because I can't answer this without linking this to a particular customer. So I think I'm going to refrain from answering that.

我認為這是一個很難回答的問題，因為如果不將其與特定客戶聯繫起來，我就無法回答這個問題。所以我想我不會回答這個問題。

Okay. Got it. So probably what kind of sector do you expect probably can -- demand or shipments or revenue can better than other segment in Q2? Or which sector do you expect is probably worse than other sector or your expectation in Q2?

好的。知道了。那麼，您預計哪個行業在第二季的需求、出貨量或收入可能會比其他行業更好？或者您預期哪個產業在第二季的表現可能比其他產業或您的預期更差？

I think in terms of our AMS business, given that it is the second quarter and it's usually the seasonally down quarter, it's probably not a really fair assessment in terms of trying to figure out what products are ramping and what products are not. These -- the current movements in these types of products tend more to be about the situation or at the point at which they're in their manufacturing cycle. So I don't know if it's particularly meaningful to have that discussion at this time.

我認為，就我們的 AMS 業務而言，考慮到現在是第二季度，而且通常是季節性下滑的季度，因此，在試圖弄清楚哪些產品在增長、哪些產品沒有增長方面，這可能不是一個非常公平的評估。這些—這些類型產品的當前走勢往往與製造週期的情況或時間點有關。所以我不知道此時進行這樣的討論是否特別有意義。

Got it. Got it. So my second question is in terms of your new technology plan in the future. I think yesterday, Powertech suggested that they are working with HPC or AI clients with 2 nanometers for their panel level packaging. So I wonder if you have any plans or timeline for mass production stage for panel level packaging for more high-end or advanced applications? Or also, can you give us some of the timeline for silicon photonic, something like that?

知道了。知道了。我的第二個問題是關於您未來的新技術計劃。我記得昨天，Powertech 表示他們正在與 HPC 或 AI 客戶合作，採用 2 奈米技術進行面板級封裝。所以我想知道您是否對更高端或更先進的應用的面板級封裝的量產階段有任何計劃或時間表？或者，您能否給我們一些矽光子的發展時間表之類的？

Jason, you're looking to understand what our explosive growth plans are for our leading-edge technologies. Is that correct?

傑森，你想了解我們針對尖端技術制定的爆炸性增長計劃。對嗎？

Yes, yes, including panel level packaging or silicon photonics.

是的，是的，包括面板級封裝或矽光子學。

Well, I can't speak for our competitors. Apparently, they are -- I think they made a pretty aggressive statement yesterday. But in terms of our own panel, I think we're in the process of establishing and aligning our pilot line for the customer qualification scheduled in later part of 2025 and '26. And adoption -- the actual adoption and timeline will be dependent on customers.

好吧，我不能代表我們的競爭對手發言。顯然，我認為他們昨天發表了相當激進的聲明。但就我們自己的小組而言，我認為我們正在建立和調整我們的試驗線，以便計劃在 2025 年後期和 2026 年進行客戶資格認證。至於採用－實際採用和時間表將取決於客戶。

So we have been investing in this for a very, very long period of time, and we're very happy that our foundry partner is also getting into this and setting the pace for -- setting the standard for the industry or for this particular technology. So we are on schedule. And we're taking one step at a time to make sure that whatever solution or offering that we come up with is what the market needs.

因此，我們在這方面投資了很長一段時間，我們很高興我們的代工合作夥伴也參與其中，並為產業或這項特定技術設定標準。所以我們的計劃一切順利。我們正在一步步努力，確保我們提出的解決方案或產品正是市場所需要的。

Does that answer your question, Jason?

這回答了你的問題嗎，傑森？

Yes, understood. I have no more questions.

是的，明白了。我沒有其他問題了。

There is no question from the floor.

現場無人提問。

Okay. I think that's a wrap for the quarter. Thank you for attending our call. See you next time.

好的。我認為本季就此結束。感謝您參加我們的電話會議。下次再見。