日月光投資控股 (ASX) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello. I am Ken Hsiang, the Head of Investor Relations for ASE Technology Holdings. Welcome to our third quarter 2025 earnings release. I am joined today by Joseph Tung, our CFO. Thank you for attending our earnings release today.

你好。我是日月光科技控股有限公司投資人關係主管項建（Ken Hsiang）。歡迎閱讀我們2025年第三季財報。今天和我一起的是我們的財務長 Joseph Tung。感謝各位參加我們今天的財報發表會。

Please refer to the safe harbor notice on page 2. All participants consent to having their voices and questions broadcast via participation in this event. If participants do not consent, please do not ask questions or you may leave the session at this time.

請參閱第 2 頁的安全港聲明。所有參與者同意透過參與本次活動的方式，公開他們的聲音和問題。如果參與者不同意，請不要提問，否則您可以離開會議。

I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk, and our actual results may differ materially.

我想提醒大家，接下來的簡報可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述有很高的風險，我們的實際結果可能與預期有重大差異。

For the purposes of this presentation, dollar figures are generally stated in New Taiwan dollars unless otherwise indicated. As a Taiwan-based company, our financial information is presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those presented by our subsidiary using Chinese GAAP.

除非另有說明，否則本次簡報中的金額一般以新台幣表示。作為一家總部位於台灣的公司，我們的財務資訊是依照台灣國際財務報告準則編制。使用台灣國際財務報告準則編製的結果可能與使用其他會計準則編製的結果有重大差異，包括我們子公司使用中國通用會計準則編製的結果。

For today's presentation, I will go over the financial results, and Joseph will give the company's guidance. Afterwards, we will be available to take your questions during the Q&A session. With that, let's get started.

在今天的報告中，我將介紹財務業績，約瑟夫將給出公司的發展方向。之後，我們將在問答環節回答您的問題。那麼，我們就開始吧。

During the third quarter, both our ATM and EMS businesses outperformed our original sales and profitability expectations. Packaging and testing utilization percentages were in the high 70s. Loading on LEAP and traditional advanced packaging lines were generally full. Our wire bond utilization also showed some improvement. Our test business continues to grow faster than our assembly business, with our chip probe testing leading the way.

第三季度，我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務均超出了我們最初的銷售額和獲利預期。包裝和測試利用率均在 70% 以上。LEAP 和傳統先進包裝生產線上的物料通常都已裝滿。我們的引線鍵合利用率也顯示出一些改善。我們的測試業務成長速度持續超過組裝業務，其中晶片探針測試業務處於領先地位。

From a profitability perspective, with our factory loading being better than anticipated, we were able to extract higher operating leverage. However, the company's performance was still impacted significantly by foreign exchange.

從獲利能力的角度來看，由於我們的工廠產能利用率高於預期，我們得以獲得更高的經營槓桿。然而，該公司的業績仍受到外匯波動的嚴重影響。

Despite the NT dollar's near-term decline in value against the US dollar, for much of the third quarter, the NT dollar traded at a relatively appreciated level when compared with the second quarter. During the quarter, the NT dollar moved from an average exchange rate of TWD31.2 to TWD29.7 per US dollar, strengthening by 4.6%.

儘管新台幣對美元短期內貶值，但第三季的大部分時間裡，新台幣的交易價格與第二季相比仍處於相對升值水準。本季度，新台幣兌美元的平均匯率從 31.2 新台幣兌 1 美元升至 29.7 新台幣兌 1 美元，漲幅為 4.6%。

Simplistically, we estimate that for every percentage point appreciation of the NT dollar relative to the US dollar, we see a corresponding 0.3 percentage point negative impact to margins at the holding company level and a 0.45 percentage point negative impact to margins at the ATM level.

簡單來說，我們估計，新台幣兌美元每公升值一個百分點，控股公司層面的利潤率就會受到相應的負面影響 0.3 個百分點，ATM 層面的利潤率就會受到相應的負面影響 0.45 個百分點。

Using this simplified approach, foreign exchange had negative sequential impacts to our holding company and ATM margins of 1.4 and 2.1 percentage points, respectively. And annually, negative impacts to our holding company and ATM margins of 2.4 and 3.6 percentage points, respectively. Heading into the fourth quarter, we expect a more stable NT dollar environment with an average exchange rate of TWD30.4 per USD1 .

採用這種簡化的方法，外匯波動對我們的控股公司和 ATM 利潤率分別產生了 1.4 和 2.1 個百分點的負面影響。每年，這將分別對我們的控股公司和 ATM 利潤率造成 2.4 和 3.6 個百分點的負面影響。進入第四季度，我們預期新台幣匯率環境將更加穩定，平均匯率為1美元兌30.4新台幣。

Please turn to page 3, where you will find our third quarter consolidated results. For the third quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of TWD2.41 and basic EPS of TWD2.50. Consolidated net revenues were TWD168.6 billion, representing an increase of 12% sequentially and 5% year-over-year.

請翻到第3頁，您將在那裡看到我們第三季的綜合業績。第三季度，我們錄得完全攤薄後每股收益2.41新台幣，基本每股收益2.50新台幣。合併淨收入為1,686億新台幣，較上季成長12%，較去年同期成長5%。

On a US dollar basis, our sales increased by 17% sequentially and 14% year-over-year. We had a gross profit of TWD28.9 billion, with a gross margin of 17.1%. Our gross margin improved by 0.1 percentage points sequentially and 0.6 percentage points year-over-year.

以美元計，我們的銷售額環比成長 17%，年增 14%。我們實現了289億新台幣的毛利，毛利率為17.1%。我們的毛利率較上月提高了0.1個百分點，年增了0.6個百分點。

The sequential improvement in margin is primarily due to higher loading and our ATM business, offset in large part by foreign exchange. The annual improvement is primarily due to higher utilization and beneficial product mix, offset by foreign exchange. We estimate that foreign exchange had a negative 1.4 and 2.4 percentage point impact to our gross margins on a sequential and annual basis, respectively.

利潤率的環比改善主要歸功於更高的裝貨量和我們的 ATM 業務，但很大程度上被外匯匯率波動抵消。年度業績提升主要歸功於更高的利用率和有利的產品組合，但受到外匯波動的影響。我們估計，外匯波動對我們的毛利率分別產生了環比下降 1.4 個百分點和年度下降 2.4 個百分點的影響。

Our operating expenses increased by TWD0.2 billion sequentially and TWD0.7 billion annually to TWD15.7 billion. The sequential and annual increases in operating expenses are primarily due to higher R&D costs. Our operating expense percentage declined 1 percentage point sequentially to 9.3% and was flat annually.

我們的營運費用較上季增加 0.2 億新台幣，年度增加 0.7 億新台幣，達到 157 億新台幣。營運費用逐年成長的主要原因是研發成本增加。我們的營運費用百分比季減 1 個百分點至 9.3%，與去年同期持平。

Operating profit was TWD13.2 billion, up TWD3 billion sequentially and TWD1.7 billion year-over-year. Operating margin was 7.8%, up 1 percentage point sequentially and up 0.6 percentage points year-over-year.

營業利潤為新台幣132億，較上季成長新台幣30億，較去年成長新台幣17億。營業利益率為 7.8%，季增 1 個百分點，較去年同期成長 0.6 個百分點。

During the quarter, we had a net non-operating gain of TWD0.8 billion. Our non-operating gain for the quarter primarily consists of net foreign exchange hedging activities, offset in part by net interest expense of TWD1.4 billion. Tax expense for the quarter was TWD2.6 billion. Our effective tax rate for the quarter was 19%. Net income for the quarter was TWD10.9 billion, representing an increase of TWD3.4 billion sequentially and TWD1.2 billion annually.

本季度，我們獲得了淨非經營收益 0.8 億新台幣。本季非經營性收益主要包括外匯避險淨額，部分被淨利息支出14億新台幣抵銷。本季稅金支出為新台幣26億元。本季實際稅率為19%。本季淨利為新台幣109億元，季增新台幣34億元，較去年成長新台幣12億元。

On the bottom of the page, we provide key P&L line items without the inclusion of PPA-related expenses. Consolidated gross profit, excluding PPA expenses, would be TWD29.4 billion, with a 17.4% gross margin. Operating profit would be TWD14 billion, with an operating margin of 8.3%. Net profit would be TWD11.6 billion, with a net margin of 6.9%. Basic EPS, excluding PPA expenses, would be TWD2.68.

在頁面底部，我們提供了關鍵的損益表項目，但不包括與購電協議相關的費用。不計購電協議費用，合併毛利為294億新台幣，毛利率為17.4%。營業利益為140億新台幣，營業利益率為8.3%。淨利為新台幣116億元，淨利率為6.9%。不計購電協議費用，基本每股盈餘為新台幣2.68元。

On page 4 is a graphical presentation of our consolidated quarterly financial performance. On page 5 is our ATM P&L. The ATM revenue reported here contains revenues eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses.

第 4 頁是我們季度綜合財務表現的圖表展示。第 5 頁是我們的 ATM 損益表。這裡報告的 ATM 收入包含在控股公司層級抵消的與我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易相關的收入。

For the third quarter of 2025, we had record revenues for our ATM business of TWD100.3 billion, up TWD7.7 billion from the previous quarter and up TWD14.5 billion from the same period last year. This represents an increase of 8% sequentially and a 17% increase annually.

2025年第三季度，我們的ATM業務收入創歷史新高，達到新台幣1003億元，比上一季增加新台幣77億元，比去年同期增加新台幣145億元。這比上一季增長了 8%，比上一年增長了 17%。

On a US dollar basis, our ATM revenues were up 13% sequentially and 27% annually. Our test businesses growth as a whole continues to outpace our assembly business as a whole, growing 11% sequentially and 30% annually.

以美元計，我們的 ATM 營收季增 13%，年增 27%。我們的測試業務整體成長速度持續超過組裝業務整體成長速度，季增 11%，年增率達 30%。

Gross profit for our ATM business was TWD22.7 billion, up TWD2.5 billion sequentially and up TWD2.9 billion year-over-year. Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 22.6%, up 0.7 percentage points sequentially and down 0.5 percentage points year-over-year.

我們的ATM業務毛利為新台幣227億，較上季成長新台幣25億，較去年成長新台幣29億。我們的 ATM 業務毛利率為 22.6%，季增 0.7 個百分點，較去年同期下降 0.5 個百分點。

The sequential gross margin increase was due to equipment utilization rate improvement, offset in large part by NT dollar appreciation. The annual gross margin decline was primarily due to NT dollar appreciation, and to a much lesser extent, higher electricity rates, offset in large part by higher loading.

毛利率環比增長是由於設備利用率提高，但很大程度上被新台幣升值所抵消。年度毛利率下降主要是由於新台幣升值，其次是電價上漲，但電價上漲在很大程度上被更高的負載所抵消。

On a constant currency basis, relative to our first quarter, we estimate our gross margin would be roughly 4.2 percentage points higher during the quarter. This difference would have put our adjusted third quarter gross margin of 26.8% in the middle of our previously stated structural ATM gross margin range.

以固定匯率計算，相對於第一季度，我們預計本季毛利率將提高約 4.2 個百分點。這一差異將使我們調整後的第三季毛利率 26.8% 處於我們先前公佈的結構性 ATM 毛利率範圍的中部。

During the third quarter, operating expenses were TWD11.8 billion, up TWD0.4 billion sequentially and TWD1.2 billion year-over-year. The sequential increase in operating expenses was primarily related to higher overall R&D costs, including labor, equipment and factory supplies. The annual increase is primarily the result of R&D ramp-up and labor-related expenses.

第三季營運支出為新台幣118億，較上季增加新台幣4億，較去年增加新台幣12億。營運費用的環比成長主要與研發總成本的增加有關，包括勞動力、設備和工廠用品。年度成長主要是研發投入增加和勞動相關支出增加所致。

Our operating expense percentage for the quarter was 11.8%, decreasing 0.5 percentage points sequentially and down 0.5 percentage points annually. The decline was primarily the result of higher revenues during the quarter.

本季我們的營運費用率為 11.8%，季減 0.5 個百分點，年減 0.5 個百分點。該季度營收成長是導致業績下滑的主要原因。

As we previously have mentioned, we believe our spending in R&D, on an absolute dollar level, will continue to increase. But as the associated LEAP revenue syncs up with the R&D spending, our operating expense percentage should continue to moderate.

正如我們之前提到的，我們相信，從絕對金額來看，我們在研發方面的支出將持續成長。但隨著 LEAP 相關收入與研發支出同步成長，我們的營運費用百分比應該會持續趨於緩和。

During the third quarter, operating profit was TWD10.9 billion, representing a sequential increase of TWD2.1 billion and an annual increase of TWD1.7 billion. Operating margin was 10.8%, up 1.3 percentage points sequentially and up 0.1 percentage points year-over-year. Without the impact of PPA-related depreciation and amortization, ATM gross profit margin would be 23.1% and an operating profit margin would be 11.6%.

第三季營業利潤為新台幣109億，較上季成長新台幣21億，較去年成長新台幣17億。營業利益率為 10.8%，季增 1.3 個百分點，較去年同期成長 0.1 個百分點。如果不考慮與 PPA 相關的折舊和攤銷的影響，ATM 的毛利率將為 23.1%，營業利潤率將為 11.6%。

On page 6, you'll find a graphical representation of our ATM P&L. Please note the generally upsloping revenue bars. Using the first quarter's foreign exchange rate, we estimate the gross margin percentages for the second and third quarters would be 24.1% and 26.8%.

在第 6 頁，您將看到我們 ATM 損益表的圖形表示。請注意整體呈上升趨勢的收入長條圖。根據第一季的匯率，我們估計第二季和第三季的毛利率分別為 24.1% 和 26.8%。

On page 7 is our ATM revenue by the 3C market segments. You can see here that the Computing segment continues to become a relatively larger component of our business. This was largely driven by a higher percentage of LEAP based revenues.

第 7 頁是我們以 3C 市場區隔劃分的 ATM 收入。從這裡可以看出，電腦業務板塊在我們業務中所佔的比重越來越大。這主要是由於基於 LEAP 的收入佔比更高所致。

On page 8, you will find our ATM revenue by service type. Here, you can see the two service types containing LEAP services, Bump and Flip Chip and testing. Both are becoming a larger component of our overall business. We expect continued momentum in these areas heading into 2026.

在第 8 頁，您可以找到我們按服務類型劃分的 ATM 收入。在這裡，您可以看到包含 LEAP 服務的兩種服務類型：凸塊和倒裝晶片以及測試。兩者都在我們整體業務中佔據越來越重要的地位。我們預計這些領域在2026年將繼續保持成長動能。

On page 9, you can see the third quarter results of our EMS business. The annual seasonality of our EMS business has been inconsistent over the last few years due to differing device ramp-up schedules. As such, we believe the annual comparability of our quarterly results may be impacted.

在第 9 頁，您可以查看我們 EMS 業務的第三季業績。由於不同設備的產能提升計畫各不相同，過去幾年我們EMS業務的年度季節性波動一直不穩定。因此，我們認為季度業績的年度可比性可能會受到影響。

During the quarter, EMS revenues were TWD69 billion, increasing 17% sequentially, while down 8% year-over-year. The sequential increase in annual decline were both primarily the result of differing underlying device seasonality. Sequentially, our EMS business's gross margin declined 0.2 percentage points to 9.2%. This slight change was principally the result of product mix.

本季度，EMS營收為690億新台幣，季增17%，年減8%。年度下降幅度的連續增加，主要都是因為不同設備的潛在季節性差異所造成的。與上一季相比，我們的EMS業務毛利率下降了0.2個百分點，至9.2%。這項細微變化主要是產品組合調整的結果。

Operating expenses within our EMS business decreased by TWD0.2 billion sequentially and declined TWD0.5 billion annually. The sequential decline is primarily the result of lower compensation and professional fees. While on an annual basis, the decline is primarily related to lower compensation expenses.

我們的EMS業務營運費用較上季減少了0.2億新台幣，比去年同期減少了0.5億新台幣。這種逐年下降主要是因為薪資和專業服務費降低所造成的。從年度來看，下降主要與薪酬支出減少有關。

Our third quarter EMS operating expense percentage of 5.6% was down 1.3 percentage points sequentially, while annually, our EMS operating expense percentage declined slightly by 0.1 percentage points on lower spending and revenues.

第三季 EMS 營運費用佔比為 5.6%，季減 1.3 個百分點；而年比來看，由於支出和收入下降，EMS 營運費用佔比略微下降了 0.1 個百分點。

Operating margin for the third quarter was 3.7%, up 1.1 percentage points sequentially and up 0.4 percentage points year-over-year. The improvements are primarily the results of higher loading rate and some one-time inventory-related adjustments. Our EMS third quarter operating profit was TWD2.5 billion, up TWD1 billion sequentially and TWD0.1 billion annually.

第三季營業利益率為 3.7%，季增 1.1 個百分點，較去年同期成長 0.4 個百分點。這些改進主要是由於裝載率提高以及一些一次性的庫存相關調整。我們的EMS第三季營業利潤為新台幣25億元，較上季成長新台幣10億元，較去年成長新台幣1億元。

On the bottom of the page, you will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. The third quarter application mix shows the seasonal ramp-up of our customers' consumer products, with our consumer segment growing while all other segments declining in application share.

在頁面底部，您將看到我們按應用領域劃分的 EMS 收入的圖表。第三季應用組合顯示了我們客戶消費品季節性成長的情況，其中消費品領域成長，而其他所有領域的應用份額均有所下降。

We believe, at a strategic level, our EMS business faces similar technological manufacturing trends as our ATM business does. Trends such as power delivery and thermal control are core themes at the forefront in both our ATM and EMS businesses. Having the ability to address customer challenges at both the ATM and EMS level allows us to provide a broader set of technical solutions to our customers.

我們認為，從策略層面來看，我們的EMS業務面臨與ATM業務類似的製造技術趨勢。電源輸送和熱控制等趨勢是我們 ATM 和 EMS 業務的核心主題。我們能夠同時在 ATM 和 EMS 層面解決客戶面臨的挑戰，從而為客戶提供更廣泛的技術解決方案。

On page 10, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. At the end of the year, we had cash, cash equivalents and current financial assets of TWD83.4 billion. Our total interest-bearing debt increased by TWD55.6 billion to TWD295.7 billion. This increase was primarily due to the completion of a TWD50 billion syndicated loan to fund our CapEx. Total unused credit lines amounted to TWD344.7 billion. Our EBITDA for the quarter was TWD32.6 billion. Our net debt to equity this quarter was 63%.

第 10 頁列出了我們資產負債表中的關鍵項目。截至年底，我們擁有現金、現金等價物及流動金融資產834億新台幣。我們的計息債務總額增加了556億新台幣，達到2,957億新台幣。這一增長主要是由於完成了一筆 500 億新台幣的銀團貸款，用於資助我們的資本支出。未使用的信貸額度總額為新台幣3447億。本季我們的 EBITDA 為 326 億新台幣。本季我們的淨負債權益比為 63%。

On page 11, you will find our equipment capital expenditures relative to our EBITDA. Machinery and equipment capital expenditures for the third quarter in US dollars totaled $779 million, of which $534 million was used in packaging operations, $199 million in testing operations, $40 million in EMS operations and $6 million in interconnect material operations and others. In addition to spending on machinery and equipment, during the quarter, we also spent $716 million on facilities, which includes land and buildings.

在第 11 頁，您將看到我們相對於 EBITDA 的設備資本支出。第三季機械設備資本支出（以美元計）總計 7.79 億美元，其中 5.34 億美元用於包裝業務，1.99 億美元用於測試業務，4,000 萬美元用於 EMS 業務，600 萬美元用於互連材料業務及其他業務。除了在機械和設備上的支出外，本季我們還在設施上花費了 7.16 億美元，其中包括土地和建築物。

The overall environment appears to be strengthening. For us, the upward seasonality during the third quarter has been the strongest since the COVID timeframe. From a customer sentiment perspective, the pendulum appears to be swinging from booking capacity on an as-needed basis to prebooking capacities and making sure raw materials are available. As a whole, our customers are now looking for more assurance and security in their supply chains.

整體環境似乎正在改善。對我們來說，第三季的季節性上漲勢頭是自新冠疫情爆發以來最強勁的。從客戶情緒的角度來看，風向似乎正在從按需預訂產能轉向提前預訂產能並確保原材料供應。整體而言，我們的客戶現在希望他們的供應鏈能提供更多的保障和安全。

For the quarter, LEAP and test services continue to lead growth for the company. LEAP continues to be driven by AI. Although we are seeing more customers target their products for use within the AI super cycle, many new products are inferring AI capability or AI readiness. Products are expanding new and smart AI capabilities and features. Newer generations of products are becoming more robust electronically, while allowing streamlined access to certain aspects of GenAI capability, such as video and document creation.

本季度，LEAP 和測試服務繼續引領公司成長。LEAP 的發展仍以人工智慧為驅動力。儘管我們看到越來越多的客戶將產品定位為在人工智慧超級週期內使用，但許多新產品都暗示了人工智慧功能或人工智慧就緒狀態。產品正在不斷擴展新的智慧人工智慧功能和特性。新一代產品在電子方面變得更加強大，同時簡化了對 GenAI 某些功能的訪問，例如視訊和文件創建。

The key is whether the end consumers are enticed to integrate new generations of products into their lives. And to that end, AI does appear to be upping the basic standards of quality in various contexts, not just limited to the school, office and social media. And there does appear to be the not so subtle ominous angle of you need AI to be competitive. This is bringing an intelligence and capabilities arms race to everyone's front door.

關鍵在於能否吸引終端消費者將新一代產品融入他們的生活中。由此可見，人工智慧似乎正在提高各種領域的基本品質標準，而不僅限於學校、辦公室和社群媒體。而且，似乎還存在著一個不隱晦的不祥之兆：你需要人工智慧才能保持競爭力。這使得一場情報和能力軍備競賽蔓延到了每個人的家門口。

In such a context, understanding the seemingly insatiable need for more capable chips and hardware seems fairly straightforward. From the packaging and test perspective, the higher the AI computational capability, the stronger the chips packaging and testing needs are. Critical improvement paths in power delivery, processing bandwidth and thermal performance will continue to drive our LEAP services.

在這種情況下，理解人們對功能更強大的晶片和硬體似乎永無止境的需求就顯得相當簡單了。從封裝和測試的角度來看，人工智慧的運算能力越高，對晶片封裝和測試的要求就越高。電源供應、處理頻寬和散熱效能方面的關鍵改善路徑將繼續推動我們的 LEAP 服務發展。

With that, I'll hand the presentation over to Joseph to present the company's outlook.

接下來，我將把演講交給約瑟夫，由他來介紹公司的發展前景。

Thank you, Ken. Let me give you the fourth quarter guidance. Based on our current business outlook and the exchange rate assumption of USD1 to TWD30.4 versus in third quarter, we have TWD29.7 exchange rate. Management projects overall performance for the fourth quarter of 2025 to be as follows.

謝謝你，肯。讓我來提供一下第四季的業績指引。根據我們目前的業務前景和第三季 1 美元兌 30.4 新台幣的匯率假設，我們得出新台幣兌美元匯率為 29.7。管理層預計 2025 年第四季的整體業績如下。

On a consolidated level, in NT dollar terms, our consolidated fourth quarter revenue should grow by 1% to 2% quarter-over-quarter. Our consolidated fourth quarter gross margin should increase by 70 to 100 basis points quarter-over-quarter. Our consolidated fourth quarter operating margin should increase by 70 to 100 basis points quarter-over-quarter.

從整體來看，以新台幣計價，我們第四季的合併收入應該會較上季成長 1% 至 2%。我們第四季綜合毛利率應較上季成長 70 至 100 個基點。我們第四季綜合營業利潤率應較上季成長 70 至 100 個基點。

For ATM, in NT dollar terms, our ATM fourth quarter revenue should grow by 3% to 5% quarter-over-quarter. Our ATM fourth quarter gross margin should increase by 100 to 150 basis points quarter-over-quarter.

就 ATM 而言，以新台幣計價，我們的 ATM 第四季營收應該會季增 3% 至 5%。我們的 ATM 業務第四季毛利率應該會比上一季成長 100 至 150 個基點。

For EMS, in NT dollar terms, our EMS fourth quarter revenue should stay flat or decline slightly quarter-over-quarter. Our EMS fourth quarter operating margin should be similar to fourth quarter 2024 level.

就EMS而言，以新台幣計價，我們的EMS第四季度收入應該會與上一季持平或略有下降。我們的EMS業務第四季營業利潤率應該與2024年第四季的水平相近。

With that, let me also give you some color for the full year. For ATM, we're seeing better-than-expected momentum of mainstream business, given the continuing recovery of the general market. While our leading-edge revenue, we are on track to reach the USD1.6 billion mark as planned. Altogether, we expect ATM 2025 full year revenue to exceed our target and grow over 20% year-over-year in US dollar terms.

最後，讓我再為大家介紹一下這一年的色彩。對 ATM 而言，鑑於整體市場的持續復甦，我們看到主流業務的發展勢頭優於預期。儘管我們的營收處於領先地位，但我們仍有望按計劃達到 16 億美元的目標。總而言之，我們預計 ATM 2025 年全年營收將超過我們的目標，並以美元計價年增 20% 以上。

As for machinery CapEx, we expect to further increase our full year CapEx by another few hundred million US dollars to meet customers' requests and to support continuing business momentum into 2026. The increase is largely for wafer probing for both AI and non-AI chips as well as for general capacity ramp and some new initiatives for year 2026.

至於機械設備資本支出，我們預計將全年資本支出再增加數億美元，以滿足客戶的要求，並支持業務在 2026 年繼續保持成長動能。此次成長主要用於人工智慧和非人工智慧晶片的晶圓探測，以及一般產能提升和2026年的一些新舉措。

With that, let's give it back to Ken to open the floor for questions.

接下來，讓我們把時間交還給肯，讓他來回答大家的問題。

Thank you, Joseph. During the Q&A session that follows, we would appreciate if questions can be kept concise and asked one at a time. I will be receiving each question and repeating the asked question to Joseph. Again, we'll be limiting the number of questions asked to 2 questions per turn, but asked one at a time.

謝謝你，約瑟夫。接下來的問答環節，請各位提問者盡量言簡意賅，一次只提一個問題。我會收到每一個問題，然後把問題轉述給約瑟夫。再次強調，我們將限制每輪提問的數量為 2 個問題，但一次只能問一個問題。

Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan. Gokul?

Gokul Hariharan，摩根大通。戈庫爾？

First question, obviously, on LEAP, could you give us a little bit more color about how the progress has been on LEAP revenues this year? I think you had the TWD1.6 billion guidance or additional TWD1 billion guidance. What are we tracking to compare to that guidance now?

首先，很顯然是關於 LEAP 的問題，您能否詳細介紹一下 LEAP 今年的營收進度？我認為你們之前給出的業績指引是16億新台幣，或是額外給出10億新台幣的指引。我們現在追蹤哪些數據以便與該指導意見進行比較？

And any indications for what it could do next year? I think based on our own math, it looks like it could easily double next year. And you're also raising capacity and CapEx pretty much every quarter. And also, on LEAP, what is the margin contribution from LEAP-related business? Is it already accretive or it will turn accretive once you reach a certain kind of revenue run rate, and any indications on that? That's my first question.

那麼，對於它明年的發展有什麼預兆嗎？根據我們自己的計算，我認為明年這個數字很容易翻倍。而且你們幾乎每季都在提高產能和增加資本支出。另外，LEAP相關業務的利潤貢獻是多少？現在它就能帶來收益嗎？還是說要達到一定的收入成長率才會帶來收益？如果有的話，有什麼跡象表明這一點？這是我的第一個問題。

Gokul, you are looking for revenue progress and generally kind of what you're thinking for this year and--

Gokul，你想知道收入成長情況，以及你對今年的總體規劃，還有——

Yeah.

是的。

Okay. Like I said, the -- we are on track in reaching our TWD1.6 billion mark this year. Everything is progressing well. I think we have shown very strong momentum in the AI and HPC related part of the business.

好的。正如我所說，我們今年有望實現16億新台幣的目標。一切進展順利。我認為我們在人工智慧和高效能運算相關業務領域展現了非常強勁的發展勢頭。

In terms of the revenue mix, I think, because of the geopolitical uncertainties, in terms of packaging, we are a little bit short from our original target, but that was sufficiently replenished by our more than expected growth in our test business.

就收入組成而言，我認為，由於地緣政治的不確定性，在包裝方面，我們距離最初的目標還有一點差距，但我們測試業務超出預期的增長足以彌補這一缺口。

So we are very, very confident that we will reach our TWD1.6 billion mark for this year. And going forward into 2026, we see -- we continue to see very strong momentum. And we are very, very confident that we will gain another -- over TWD1 billion kind of revenue increase for 2026 in this space.

因此，我們非常有信心今年能夠達到16億新台幣的營收目標。展望 2026 年，我們看到—我們繼續看到非常強勁的發展勢頭。我們非常有信心，到 2026 年，我們將在這個領域獲得超過 10 億新台幣的收入成長。

CapEx-wise, we will continue to make heavy investments in our leading edge, I think, to support the strong momentum that we are seeing today. And I think AI or HPC is really -- the momentum is here to stay. We're not going to be shy on making the necessary investment to not just secure our dominant position in this space, also to expand that dominance against our competitors and to fully support our customers' needs.

我認為，在資本支出方面，我們將繼續增加對領先技術的投入，以支持我們目前看到的強勁發展勢頭。而且我認為人工智慧或高效能運算的發展勢頭將會持續下去。我們將毫不猶豫地進行必要的投資，不僅要鞏固我們在該領域的統治地位，還要擴大對競爭對手的統治地位，並全力滿足客戶的需求。

In terms of margin and return, I think the -- as steady state, as we mentioned before, the LEAP would definitely be both margin as well as return accretive. And we are quickly reaching that point at this point.

就利潤率和回報而言，我認為——正如我們之前提到的，在穩定狀態下，LEAP 肯定會提高利潤率和回報。而我們現在很快就要達到那個階段了。

Okay. That's very clear. Maybe one other question. Can you talk a little bit about pricing? I think, Ken mentioned in the opening remarks that you're pretty much running full on flip chip and bumping. You're pretty much running full on LEAP.

好的。這一點很清楚。或許還有一個問題。能談談價格方面的問題嗎？我認為，肯在開場白中提到過，你們基本上是在全面採用翻轉晶片和撞片技術。你基本上是在全力以赴地執行 LEAP 計劃。

I think last time around, I think Dr. Wu had discussed about potential price negotiations. Anything that you can report on what are we seeing on pricing for your overall offering? Should we expect that pricing should go up? I think OSAT pricing doesn't usually go up that much, but just wanted to understand how we should think about pricing going into next year.

我記得上次吳博士好像討論過價格談判的可能性。能否回報貴公司整體產品定價方面的資訊？我們是否應該預期價格會上漲？我認為 OSAT 的價格通常不會上漲太多，但只是想了解我們應該如何看待明年的價格走勢。

Gokul, you're looking for commentary on overall just pricing environment for us for this year and next year.

Gokul，您是想了解我們今年和明年的整體定價環境狀況嗎？

Yeah. And maybe also specifically on LEAP as well as your flip chip and bumping kind of advance -- the mainstream advanced packaging business as well because the customer set is slightly different. LEAP, you're kind of largely partnering with the large foundry.

是的。或許還可以特別關注 LEAP 以及倒裝晶片和凸點封裝等先進技術——主流先進封裝業務也是如此，因為客戶群略有不同。LEAP，你們基本上是和大型代工廠合作的。

Well, without giving -- without getting into specific, I think, in general, I think our pricing remains to be resilient. And I think it's very sensitive to talk about pricing. But as a whole, I think we will continue to set the -- our pricing, the most suitable pricing structure based on the current situation. I think there are a lot of moving parts, and there are a lot of uncertainties in front of us. But in general, I think we will continue to make our pricing a very, very resilient level.

嗯，不具體說明的話，我認為，總的來說，我們的定價仍然具有韌性。我認為談論價格是非常敏感的話題。但總的來說，我認為我們將繼續根據當前情況制定最合適的定價結構。我認為其中涉及很多變數，我們面前也存在著許多不確定因素。但總的來說，我認為我們將繼續把價格保持在非常非常穩定的水平。

Maybe if I kind of tweak it a little bit, Joseph, like what is customer feedback? I think I'm sure that everybody is talking about this. We hear that from your fabless customers as well. But I just wanted to understand like what is customer feedback to pricing even in -- I wanted to think about a little bit more on the mainstream stuff, like Flip Chip CSP or Flip Chip BGA, where there is no super cycle of growth. Even in those areas, are you able to have some like value app programs coming through?

約瑟夫，或許我可以稍微調整一下，例如，什麼是客戶回饋？我想大家都在談論這件事。我們也從你們沒有晶圓廠的客戶那裡聽過類似的回饋。但我只是想了解一下客戶對定價的反饋是什麼——我想更多地思考一下主流產品，例如倒裝晶片 CSP 或倒裝晶片 BGA，這些產品沒有超級增長週期。即使在這些地區，你們也能夠推出一些類似價值的應用程式嗎？

Are you asking for expansion on the original pricing question there?

您是想就最初的定價問題尋求更詳細的解釋嗎？

Yeah, sir. Maybe talk a little bit more on the mainstream advanced packaging as well, yes.

是的，先生。或許還可以多談談主流的先進封裝技術，是的。

For mainstream, I think we are seeing the continuing recovery of the general market. And therefore, I think pricing wise, I think, it's right now at a very stable level.

就主流市場而言，我認為我們正在看到整體市場的持續復甦。因此，我認為就價格而言，目前處於非常穩定的水平。

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley. Charlie?

查理陳，摩根士丹利。查理？

Yeah. I just unmuted myself. First of all, congratulations for very good results and outlook. My first question is really on sort of supply chain related discussion. For example, what's the update plan for you to do the US operation? Because your major customers -- major foundry partners are all very active in the US, and there seems to be -- your competitor, Amkor, in that presence. So one is that your updated plan for the US operation to enjoy that ASME kind of growth.

是的。我剛剛解除了靜音。首先，恭喜你們取得非常好的成績和前景。我的第一個問題其實是關於供應鏈的討論。例如，你們在美國的業務更新計畫是什麼？因為您的主要客戶—主要的代工廠合作夥伴在美國都非常活躍，而且您的競爭對手安靠（Amkor）似乎也在美國市場佔有一席之地。所以，其中之一是您更新後的美國業務計劃，以享受 ASME 那樣的成長。

And also, we are very concerned about the sort of T-Glass shortage. I think a lot of customers are going through with your fab to see if they can secure more substrates, right? So I'm not sure if they would be kind of a gating factor for your next year's growth. So this is the first question.

此外，我們也非常關注T-Glass的短缺問題。我認為很多客戶都選擇與你們的工廠合作，看看能否獲得更多的基板，對嗎？所以我不太確定它們是否會成為你明年發展的阻礙因素。這是第一個問題。

That's -- Charlie, that sounds like two questions. So let's start with question number one, the US building out perspective.

查理，這聽起來像是兩個問題。那麼，讓我們從第一個問題開始，即美國的發展前景。

Okay. Thank you for your question, and thanks for coming to my concert.

好的。謝謝你的提問，也謝謝你來聽我的音樂會。

Yeah, it was a great one.

是的，那真是太棒了。

US, we don't have anything new to report except that -- let me reiterate what we mentioned last time that we were invited by our customers to look at the investment opportunities in the US. We are currently still engaging in discussion with our customers and we're evaluating different opportunities, but no decision is made at this point. But whatever decision we will eventually make, it will have to make economical sense for us.

美國方面，我們沒有什麼新的消息要報告，除了——讓我重申一下我們上次提到的——我們的客戶邀請我們考察美國的投資機會。我們目前仍在與客戶進行討論，並評估各種機會，但目前尚未做出任何決定。但無論我們最終做出什麼決定，都必須對我們來說具有經濟意義。

In terms of the competition, I think Amkor has its own mind. So I think I'm not going to answer for Amkor. But overall, we will continue to be watchful on the overall competition landscape and see how we can better position ourselves in terms of meeting this competition.

就競爭而言，我認為安高有自己的想法。所以我想我不能代表Amkor公司回答這個問題了。但總的來說，我們將繼續密切關注整體競爭格局，看看我們如何更好地定位自己，以應對這場競爭。

So Charlie, do you want your second question to be about your previous question on T-Glass and such?

查理，你的第二個問題是關於你之前問的關於T-Glass之類的問題嗎？

Yeah, maybe we can save it for maybe second round. But my major second question is really the final test completion. So I know this one is a little bit controversial, but I wanted to get your updates or confidence level about your final test market share at major customers' next-generation GPU.

是的，或許我們可以留到第二輪再用。但我第二個主要問題是最終考試的完成情況。我知道這個問題可能有點爭議，但我很想了解您對主要客戶下一代 GPU 的最終測試市場份額的最新情況或信心程度。

Yeah, and by the way, congratulations for a very strong share price. So I think your efforts were recognized by foreign shareholders. Yeah, so second question is really about your final test business updates.

對了，順便祝賀一下，股價表現非常強勁。所以我認為你的努力得到了外國股東的認可。是的，第二個問題其實是關於你們最終測試業務更新的。

So you're looking for a more comprehensive explanation or update on our final test market share gains.

所以您是想了解我們最終測試市場佔有率成長的更全面解釋或最新情況。

Yeah. Because your Taiwanese competitor seems to be very aggressive in the cashless purchase and capacity expansion as well. So I hope both can win. Yeah, so I just wanted to get a little bit more color about your realistic assumption about your final test market share.

是的。因為你的台灣競爭對手在無現金支付和產能擴張方面似乎也非常積極。所以我希望他們兩個都能贏。是的，我只是想更詳細地了解你對最終測試市場份額的合理假設。

I think, as we mentioned, we have been aggressive, and we have been pretty successful in terms of expanding our test business. I think for this year, our test business growth is going to be twice the packaging revenue growth. And we will continue to make large investment into our test capacity. But our resources are also limited.

我認為，正如我們所提到的，我們在拓展測試業務方面一直採取積極進取的態度，並且取得了相當大的成功。我認為今年我們的測試業務成長將是包裝業務收入成長的兩倍。我們將繼續加大對檢測能力的投入。但我們的資源也是有限的。

We don't have unlimited resources to try to cover everything in the market. So right now, the main focus for our investment in test is really on the wafer probing. And I think we will continue to on this effort for the time to come.

我們沒有足夠的資源去涵蓋市場上的所有事物。所以目前，我們在測試方面的投資主要集中在晶圓探測上。我認為在未來一段時間內，我們將繼續在這方面努力。

And in terms of final test, I think we are making the investment -- necessary investment at this point to build up the capacity. And we're expecting to have meaningful revenue being generated in the later part of next year when we start serving the next-generation AI chips.

至於最終測試，我認為我們正在進行必要的投資——目前是必要的投資，以提升測試能力。我們預計明年下半年開始為下一代人工智慧晶片提供服務時，將產生可觀的收入。

Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

Bruce Lu，高盛集團。

Hello. Can you hear me?

你好。你聽得到我嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Okay. My question is regarding to your revenue split for your incremental TWD1 billion revenue in 2026 for your AI-related revenue. We understand that the revenue contribution is more geared to testing for this year. Are we able to see incremental more revenue contribution from packaging? And to be more specific, can we get more like packaging-related business from both outsourcing as well as your own packaging or AI packaging business?

好的。我的問題是關於您2026年新增的10億新台幣人工智慧相關收入的收入分成情況。我們了解到，今年的收入貢獻更多用於測試。我們能否看到包裝業務帶來更多營收成長？更具體地說，我們能否透過外包以及您自己的包裝或人工智慧包裝業務，獲得更多類似包裝相關的業務？

Bruce, you're asking for the incremental revenue for this year, right?

布魯斯，你問的是今年的增量收入，對吧？

And next year, your -- because Joseph just said that we will see another additional TWD1 billion revenue for next year, right?

明年，你們——因為約瑟夫剛才說了，明年我們將看到額外10億新台幣的收入，對吧？

He may have said that. So yeah, okay.

他可能說過這句話。好的。

For the TWD1 billion increase of our leading-edge revenue, I think the breakdown is TWD650 million from packaging and about TWD350 million from test for this year. For next year, well, we'll see how things go. I think the -- we'll kind of give you a ballpark number saying that we will be having maybe at least TWD1 billion revenue growth.

對於我們領先技術收入增加的 10 億新台幣，我認為今年的組成是包裝業務增加 6.5 億新台幣，測試業務增加約 3.5 億新台幣。至於明年，嗯，我們就走瞧吧。我認為——我們可以大致估算一下，我們的營收成長可能至少會達到 10 億新台幣。

But in terms of the exact composition, I think that remains to be seen, and we'll base on the current situation to allocate our resources and to grow both of the business, but without -- right now, we don't have a set mind on what kind of breakdown it will be. But what I can say is that test seems to be -- continue to have stronger momentum at this point.

但就具體構成而言，我認為這還有待觀察，我們將根據當前情況分配資源，發展兩項業務，但目前我們還沒有確定具體的構成方案。但我可以肯定的是，目前看來，這項測試似乎勢頭依然強勁。

I see. So the testing will grow faster than packaging next year within this TWD1 billion?

我懂了。所以，明年在這10億新台幣的預算範圍內，測試業務的成長速度會比包裝業務的成長速度更快嗎？

It has been growing faster than the packaging. But come next year when the new generation product comes on stream, the competition may have some changes. But what I'm saying is that we are seeing -- we're continuing to see strong momentum in test at this point.

它的成長速度比包裝的成長速度還要快。但到了明年新一代產品上市時，競爭格局可能會有所改變。但我想說的是，我們看到——我們目前仍然看到測試方面強勁的勢頭。

I see. Okay. The second question is for -- again, I want to drill down a little bit for the U.S. plan. I mean, TSMC has utilized asset plan to build some CoW process, and Amkor committed to build some substrate process.

我懂了。好的。第二個問題是──同樣，我想更深入地了解美國的計畫。我的意思是，台積電利用資產規劃建造了一些CoW工藝，而安靠則致力於建造一些基板工藝。

So it seems to me that they have -- your customer, your competitor seems to have at least one supply chain in US, which probably -- what's the strategy for ASE at the current stage? Obviously, you probably don't need a 2 supply chain in United States, right? So the potential -- losing some market share for TSMC Automotive business is definitely a threat for our future business, right? So can we elaborate more about like what's the strategy from ASE?

所以在我看來，你們的客戶、你們的競爭對手似乎至少在美國擁有一條供應鏈，這可能──ASE 目前的策略是什麼？顯然，你可能不需要在美國建立兩條供應鏈，對吧？因此，台積電汽車業務失去一些市場份額，這對我們未來的業務來說絕對是一個威脅，對吧？那麼我們能否更詳細地談談日月交所的策略是什麼？

Bruce, you're looking for a reiteration on the US plan on our behalf.

布魯斯，你希望我們重申美國的計畫。

Yeah. .

是的。。

Well, we don't fight for market share just for market share's sake. We fight for the market share that makes sense or make profit for us. If we don't see return, if we don't see at least acceptable margin, then that's not the part of the business that we want to pursue. I think the -- like I said, regardless if it's U.S. or in any part of the world, for us to make an investment, it has to make economical sense. So that's -- if Amkor feels that with that kind of investment they can make a profit out of it, fine. But right now, we're not sure on that.

我們爭奪市場佔有率並非為了爭奪市場佔有率而爭奪市場佔有率。我們只爭取那些對我們有意義或能帶來利潤的市場佔有率。如果我們看不到回報，如果我們看不到至少可以接受的利潤率，那麼我們就不想涉足這部分業務。我認為——就像我說的，無論是在美國還是在世界任何地方，對我們來說，進行投資都必須具有經濟意義。所以，如果安高認為透過這種投資他們能夠從中獲利，那也行。但目前我們還不能確定。

So there's no way to pass on the incremental cost to the customer in order to make the investment like profitable?

所以，沒有辦法將增加的成本轉嫁給客戶，讓這項投資有利可圖嗎？

Well, it's not just about pricing, it's about the overall infrastructure, which -- that can support that kind of a business at a reasonable cost structure. And even with some premium pricing, whether that cost -- that can cover the costs associated with it remains to be seen. Right now, I think that's a very tall task actually.

其實，這不僅是定價的問題，而是關乎整體基礎設施的問題，也就是如何以合理的成本結構來支撐這類業務。即使定價較高，其價格是否能涵蓋相關的成本仍有待觀察。我覺得這其實是一項非常艱鉅的任務。

Laura Chen, Citigroup.

Laura Chen，花旗集團。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

I just want to consult, Joseph, your view on the gross margin outlook, and also, congratulations for the great result. Do you think we see quite full utilization rate like Ken just mentioned? At the same time, there is a stronger testing business.

約瑟夫，我想請教一下你對毛利率前景的看法，另外，恭喜你們取得如此優異的成績。你認為我們會看到像肯剛才提到的那種接近滿載的產能利用率嗎？同時，測試業務也更加強勁。

I recall, Joseph, you mentioned before that in the longer term, if the utilization rate get back to 80% plus, the gross margin could go back to high 20s. So just wondering how is the dynamic now. Are you also -- and also, you are increasing the CapEx for the future demand. So just wondering how should we think about the gross margin outlook into next year or longer term?

約瑟夫，我記得你之前提到過，從長遠來看，如果利用率恢復到 80% 以上，毛利率可能會恢復到 20% 以上。所以，我想知道現在的情況如何。你也是——而且，你還在增加資訊支出以滿足未來的需求。所以我想知道我們應該如何看待明年或更長期的毛利率前景？

Laura, are you looking for commentary on the relationship between utilization and our margin structure?

蘿拉，你是想了解利用率和我們的利潤結構之間的關係嗎？

Yeah. And also -- yes, and at the same time, we are also increasing CapEx. I believe that there's also some increasing in depreciation costs. So just wondering the dynamic right now, how should we think about the gross margin outlook?

是的。而且——是的，同時，我們也在增加資本支出。我認為折舊成本也有所增加。所以，我想了解目前的市場動態，我們該如何看待毛利率前景？

Well, if we exclude the foreign exchange impact, I think we have already come back to our structural margin. Like Ken mentioned in third quarter, if we were on the same ForEx level as quarter one, our margin should be around 26.8%. And going into fourth quarter, there will be further margin improvement. And again, at the same currency level, we should be over 27%. So what we mentioned before, once our utilization reaches 70% and above, then we should go back to our structural margin range.

如果排除外匯影響，我認為我們已經回到了結構性優勢的水平。正如 Ken 在第三季度提到的那樣，如果我們的外匯水平與第一季相同，我們的利潤率應該在 26.8% 左右。進入第四季度，利潤率將進一步提高。同樣，在相同的貨幣水準下，我們應該超過 27%。正如我們之前提到的，一旦我們的利用率達到 70% 及以上，我們就應該回到我們的結構性利潤率範圍。

But unfortunately, the foreign exchange does have a pretty big impact on our overall margin. But having said that, I think we will continue to -- I think right now, the foreign exchange seems to be stabilizing now. We will start our margin effort from this level.

但不幸的是，外匯波動確實對我們的整體利潤率產生了相當大的影響。但話雖如此，我認為我們將繼續下去——我認為目前外匯市場似乎正在趨於穩定。我們將從這個水準開始提升利潤率。

And we are very confident that with the continuing expansion of our leading-edge business, we're confident that we will continue to see -- as the capacity being ramped up, we are confident that we will continue to see margin improvement. And right now, we are very confident that in 2026, for the whole year, we should be -- we should have a gross profit margin for ATM at the structural margin range.

我們非常有信心，隨著我們領先業務的不斷擴張，隨著產能的提升，我們將繼續看到利潤率的提高。目前，我們非常有信心，2026 年全年，ATM 的毛利率應該能夠達到結構性利潤率水準。

We are looking for that. My second question is that -- about the leading-edge advanced packaging. ASE also developed your own focus technologies. Just wondering that how is the current progress in the customers' engagement. It's not just focused on the outflow opportunities on substrates. Also, how does ASE's -- your own focus progress?

我們正在尋找的就是這個。我的第二個問題是——關於領先的先進封裝技術。日月光也開發了自己的聚焦技術。想了解目前客戶參與度方面的進度。它不僅關注基質上的流出機會。另外，ASE——您自己的關注點進展如何？

Laura, you're looking for an update on our internal advanced packaging solutions, just to focus.

勞拉，你正在尋找我們內部先進包裝解決方案的最新進展，請集中註意力。

Yeah. Right.

是的。正確的。

Well, obviously, in terms of the overall capacity, I think for CoWoS or CoWoS like 2.5D, I think our foundry partner as well as ourselves is still scrambling to try to make the necessary investment for our capacity to catch up with the demand. And so given the tightness, I think, obviously, there will be customers -- other customers that would like to have other alternatives or solutions for -- to meet their demand, and that creates a very good business opportunity for us to try to sell our own solutions.

顯然，就整體產能而言，我認為對於 CoWoS 或類似 CoWoS 2.5D 的晶片，我們的代工廠合作夥伴以及我們自己仍在努力進行必要的投資，以使我們的產能能夠跟上需求。因此，鑑於供應緊張，我認為，很顯然，會有其他客戶希望有其他替代方案或解決方案來滿足他們的需求，這為我們提供了一個非常好的商機，讓我們嘗試銷售自己的解決方案。

And on that, we are making the necessary investment at this point. And we do have engagement with multiple customers. And -- but these things take time. I think the -- what we're expecting is that by latter part of next year, we will start to see meaningful full process revenue coming in serving multiple customers.

因此，我們目前正在進行必要的投資。我們確實與多家客戶保持聯繫。但是──這些事情都需要時間。我認為－我們預計到明年下半年，我們將開始看到透過服務多個客戶獲得有意義的完整流程收入。

Okay. So does this also included in your at least TWD1 billion revenue increase into next year?

好的。那麼，這是否也包含在你們明年至少10億新台幣的營收成長目標中呢？

Yeah.

是的。

Sunny, UBS.

陽光明媚，瑞銀集團。

Sunny, are you there?

Sunny，你在嗎？

Yeah. Could you hear me okay?

是的。你聽得清楚我說話嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

So congrats on the very good results and guidance. Glad to see LEAP business ramping up and gaining momentum going to 2026. So maybe a question on mainstream. Could you help us understand the recovery ahead? And so when you guide IC ATM sales to grow 3% to 5% sequentially, how is the growth by mainstream and LEAP? And how should we think about the cycle for mainstream going to 2026? Do you see the current utilization rate being a good base for critical recovery going to 2026?

恭喜你取得了非常好的成績，也感謝你的指導。很高興看到 LEAP 業務不斷發展壯大，並在 2026 年之前保持強勁勢頭。所以，這或許是一個關於主流的問題。您能否幫助我們了解未來的復甦之路？因此，當您引導 IC ATM 銷售量較上季成長 3% 至 5% 時，主流 ATM 和 LEAP ATM 的成長如何？那麼，我們該如何看待主流市場到 2026 年的週期呢？您認為目前的利用率能否為 2026 年的關鍵恢復奠定良好的基礎？

Sunny, you're looking for basically our more trailing edge capacity or trailing edge plus traditional advanced packaging capacity.

Sunny，你基本上是在尋找我們更靠後的產能，或是靠後加上傳統先進包裝產能的產能。

So mostly on the mainstream, so wire bonding, die bonding?

所以主要還是主流技術，像是引線鍵結、晶片鍵合？

Okay. You're looking for commentary on more traditional packaging and then -- for this year and into next year?

好的。您是想了解關於更傳統包裝的評論，以及今年和明年的相關情況嗎？

Yeah. How should we think about the cycle from here?

是的。我們該如何看待接下來的循環？

Well, as I mentioned, the mainstream business is -- we're seeing better-than-expected performances. And I think that's a result of the general market recovery. And also, in some part of the -- in different sectors, we are also seeing ourselves gaining shares, particularly -- if we look at different sectors, I think communication and -- communications, and of course, PC or computing is recovering better than the other, like automotive and industrial.

正如我之前提到的，主流業務的表現——我們看到了比預期更好的業績。我認為這是整體市場復甦的結果。而且，在某些領域——在不同的行業，我們也看到我們的市場份額正在增長，特別是——如果我們看看不同的行業，我認為通信和——通信，當然還有個人電腦或計算機，其復甦情況比其他行業要好，比如汽車和工業。

But nonetheless, I think the recovery is very obvious at this point. Maybe in terms of automotive, it's kind of moving in a slower pace than the other three sectors. But on that, we actually posted a very, very good growth in our automotive business. I think for ATM this year, we're going to see over 20% growth in this part of the business. I think that's largely as a result of we continuing getting -- gaining market share in this space through our factory automation.

但即便如此，我認為目前的復甦跡像已經非常明顯。或許就汽車產業而言，它的發展速度比其他三個產業慢一些。但實際上，我們的汽車業務實現了非常非常好的成長。我認為今年ATM業務的成長率將超過20%。我認為這主要是因為我們透過工廠自動化不斷獲得市場份額。

In general, I think, in the beginning of the year, we were saying that we will have our leading-edge giving us 10% growth and mid- to high single-digit growth coming from the mainstream. Obviously, as I mentioned in the beginning of the session, I told everybody that we're going to exceed our revenue growth target to over 20%. So that means the mainstream performance is much better than what we were expecting in the beginning of the year.

總的來說，我認為，年初的時候我們說過，我們的領先優勢將帶來 10% 的成長，而主流市場將帶來中高個位數的成長。正如我在會議開始時提到的那樣，我告訴大家，我們將超額完成收入成長目標，達到 20% 以上。這意味著主流市場的表現遠遠超出我們年初的預期。

And we're not seeing anything negative at this point in terms of mainstream business. So without giving you any further guidance for next year, but we do think that we are in a very healthy space at this point for both in the general market, and we're still seeing very strong momentum in the leading edge as well.

目前來看，主流商業領域還沒有出現任何負面情況。因此，雖然我們不打算對明年做出進一步的預測，但我們認為目前整體市場情況非常健康，而且我們也看到領先領域的成長動能依然非常強勁。

Maybe a very quick follow-up. So for Q4, is the utilization rate for mainstream continuing to recover a bit?

或許需要快速跟進。那麼，第四季主流產品的使用率是否繼續略有回升？

Yeah. I think in the -- like what Ken just mentioned, I think our bumping and flip chip are pretty full. Wire bonding is improving, although it's not entirely full, but it is steadily improving.

是的。我認為——就像 Ken 剛才提到的那樣，我認為我們的緩衝和翻轉晶片已經相當滿了。引線鍵合技術正在不斷改進，雖然尚未完全成熟，但正在穩步提升。

Got it. My second question is on gross margin. So from here, one, with the improving measuring business, and then secondly, accelerating ramp probably for LEAP going to 2026 and a stabilizing FX, should we assume for IC ATM, the gross margin recovery should accelerate in the coming few quarters?

知道了。我的第二個問題是關於毛利率的。因此，從以下兩個方面來看：第一，隨著計量業務的改善；第二，隨著 LEAP 專案可能加速推進至 2026 年，以及外匯市場趨於穩定，我們是否應該假設 IC ATM 的毛利率復甦將在未來幾季加速？

Sunny, you're looking for an update in terms of forward-looking commentary regarding our gross margin structure.

Sunny，您想了解我們在毛利率結構方面的前瞻性評論的最新情況。

Yeah, especially on the pace of the improvement.

是的，尤其是就改進的速度而言。

Well, we're not in a perfect world, right? There's still a lot of moving parts and uncertainties in front of us, which includes foreign exchange movements. So yeah, I think the general trend is very certain because as we continue to expand rapidly in our leading-edge, which is margin accretive, so that gives us a very good pace for our margin improvement going forward. But in terms of the pace, I think there's still -- I think right now, it's still too early to give you a clear path of what kind of pace we're going to have in terms of our margin expansion.

嗯，我們生活在一個不完美的世界裡，對吧？擺在我們面前的還有很多變數和不確定因素，其中包括外匯波動。所以，我認為整體趨勢非常確定，因為隨著我們在領先領域（利潤率會提高）的持續快速擴張，這將使我們在未來的利潤率提升方面保持非常良好的速度。但就速度而言，我認為——我認為現在還為時過早，無法清楚地說明我們在利潤率擴張方面將以何種速度發展。

Got it. Also, on LEAP, is there a margin difference between outsourcing and full-process CoWoS, meaning if you start to ramp more full process from second half of next year, will that further boost your gross margin for IC ATM?

知道了。另外，關於 LEAP，外包和全流程 CoWoS 之間是否存在利潤率差異？也就是說，如果您從明年下半年開始逐步增加全流程，是否會進一步提高 IC ATM 的毛利率？

I think, in terms of full process, we're still at the early stage, so it's kind of difficult to make any meaningful comparison at this point. I think both needs to be at really a more stable level for us to make the comparison. I think theoretically, regardless it's our own full process or outsourced, leading edge does give us margin accretion.

我認為，就整個過程而言，我們仍處於早期階段，因此目前很難進行任何有意義的比較。我認為兩者都需要達到更穩定的水平，我們才能進行比較。我認為從理論上講，無論是我們自己的完整流程還是外包流程，領先優勢都能為我們帶來利潤成長。

Felix Pan, KGI.

Felix Pan，KGI。

Can you, guys, hear me okay?

你們能聽清楚我說話嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah. So my first question regarding to -- I have seen your foundry partner incremental CP test outsourcing demand. Just correct me if I was wrong, but I found it very difficult to quantify how big for the TAM is. Maybe for you, it's really hard to comment on the same, but maybe on the TAM side or even the percentage of the BOM, can you just give us some sense how can we quantify, how big for the CP test demand? Just any color will be grateful. That's my first question.

是的。所以我的第一個問題是關於－我看到你們的代工廠夥伴對CP測試外包的需求不斷增加。如果我理解有誤請指正，但我發現很難量化 TAM 的大小。也許對你來說，這真的很難評論，但是就 TAM 方面，甚至是 BOM 的百分比而言，你能否給我們一些關於如何量化 CP 測試需求規模的看法？任何顏色都會很感激。這是我的第一個問題。

Felix, I think I'll take this one. In terms of the overall TAM, for something like that, I would say that that's not quantifiable, at least from our perspective. This is something that is probably known by our foundry partners. And you may want to address the amount of work that they want to outsource directly to them. We don't quantify that at this point.

菲利克斯，我想我會選擇這個。就整體 TAM 而言，像這樣的事情，我認為是無法量化的，至少從我們的角度來看是這樣。我們的代工廠合作夥伴可能都知道這一點。你可能還需要了解他們希望直接外包給他們的工作量。我們目前還無法對此進行量化。

Okay. Yeah. So my second question is, I think during the TSMC's latest earnings call, I think CC emphasized customers of customers engagement. We do see the incremental engagement. From your perspective, do you see the similar pattern, the engagement from customer to customer as well? Or -- I think there's a lot of thing happening this month, so I just want to -- if any color you can share, is any business model change or you have seen incremental customers' customer engagement as a TSMC as well? Yeah.

好的。是的。所以我的第二個問題是，我認為在台積電最近的財報電話會議上，CC強調了客戶參與度。我們確實看到了參與度的逐步提升。從您的角度來看，您是否也看到了類似的模式，也就是客戶之間的互動模式？或者——我覺得這個月發生了很多事情，所以我想——如果您能分享一些信息，比如業務模式是否有任何變化，或者作為台積電，您是否也看到了客戶參與度的提升？是的。

Felix, you're asking for how we look at our overall market and whether we actually look into our customers' customers? Similar to --

Felix，你是想問我們如何看待整個市場，以及我們是否真正關注過我們客戶的客戶嗎？類似--

Actually, my question is just any customer -- your customers' customer jumped your customer to have the engagement with you guys, like to secure some critical capacity or something like that.

實際上，我的問題是，任何客戶——你客戶的客戶——都可能主動聯絡你，例如為了獲得一些關鍵的產能或其他類似的東西。

I don't know if we can talk about that. Joseph, if you want to take a stab?

我不知道我們是否可以談論這件事。約瑟夫，你想試試嗎？

Yeah. I think we have a very, very close communication with both our direct customers as well as our foundry partners. Those dialogues are being conducted on a routine basis so that we can better prepare ourselves in terms of our capacity and also our technology roadmap.

是的。我認為我們與直接客戶以及代工廠合作夥伴都保持著非常密切的溝通。這些對話是定期進行的，以便我們能夠更好地為自身能力和技術路線圖做好準備。

So in this regard, we do talk to them. And I think our information source is not just coming from our customer, but our customers will definitely keep us informed of what they're expecting from their own customers and how the overall market will shape up. So it's a constant dialogue among the industry players to make sure that the demand is sufficiently being supported by the supply. That's an ongoing process that has been going on for them, maybe forever.

所以在這方面，我們確實會和他們溝通。我認為我們的資訊來源不僅來自我們的客戶，而且我們的客戶也一定會讓我們了解他們對自己的客戶的期望以及整個市場的走向。因此，業內人士之間需要不斷進行對話，以確保需求得到充分的供應支持。這是一個持續不斷的過程，對他們來說可能已經持續很久很久了。

(Operator Instructions) Gokul Hariharan, JPMorgan.

（操作員指令）Gokul Hariharan，摩根大通。

First one, could you help us understand what is the progress on the full stack focus or CoWoS like kind of processes going into next year? When do we expect this to start becoming more meaningful contributor to revenues, to the LEAP total revenues? And are the applications still similar in terms of like AI accelerator? Or are the applications becoming more diverse in terms of networking or server CPU and other kind of stuff as well?

首先，能否請您幫我們了解明年在全端開發或類似 CoWoS 的流程方面會取得哪些進展？我們預計何時它才能開始對收入，特別是對 LEAP 總收入做出更有意義的貢獻？這些應用在人工智慧加速器等方面是否仍然相似？或者說，這些應用程式在網路、伺服器 CPU 以及其他方面也變得越來越多樣化？

Gokul, you're looking for an update on our -- more on our full process type services, is that correct?

Gokul，您是想了解我們—更多關於我們全流程服務的信息，是嗎？

I talked about this earlier. I think we are continuing our investment in full process, and we are currently engaging with multiple customers to plan for the capacity, and we expect that come later part of next year, we should start seeing some meaningful revenue coming from full process rather than just only from outsourced part of the business.

我之前已經談過這件事了。我認為我們正在繼續增加對全流程的投資，目前我們正在與多家客戶洽談產能規劃，我們預計到明年下半年，我們將開始看到全流程帶來一些有意義的收入，而不僅僅是來自外包業務的部分。

In terms of the application, I think there will be AI accelerators. There will be other adoptions in different chips requiring such capability. But at this point, I think it's a little bit too early to say the exact revenue -- scale of the revenue or the composition of that -- of such revenue. We just have to continue to work very closely with our customers, multiple customers to better understand what their demands will be, and we'll prep ourselves for the necessary capacity for them.

就應用方面而言，我認為會出現人工智慧加速器。未來其他需要這種功能的晶片也會採用這種技術。但就目前而言，我認為要說確切的收入——收入規模或收入組成——還為時過早。我們只需要繼續與我們的客戶，多個客戶密切合作，更好地了解他們的需求，並做好必要的準備以滿足他們的需求。

Got it. Maybe a slightly related question is on the CapEx. I think we are probably finishing this year above TWD3 billion, well above TWD3 billion in terms of machinery CapEx. How do we think about this investment cycle? Are we still going to be in this, like increased CapEx, likely to continue to increase CapEx over the next couple of years given the demand outlook that you're seeing from your customers and your customers' customers?

知道了。或許可以問一個與資本支出略微相關的問題。我認為我們今年的機械設備資本支出可能超過 30 億新台幣，遠遠超過 30 億新台幣。我們如何看待當前的投資週期？我們是否仍將面臨這種情況，例如增加資本支出，並且鑑於您從客戶和客戶的客戶那裡看到的需求前景，未來幾年資本支出可能會繼續增加？

Gokul, you're looking for an update on our overall CapEx view. And also in the frame of the leading-edge advanced packaging, how it works?

Gokul，您想了解我們整體資本支出狀況的最新進展。此外，在領先的先進封裝技術框架下，它是如何運作的？

That's right. Yeah.

這是正確的。是的。

Like I said, we stay very close with our foundry partner, and they -- our foundry partner being the dominant player, they cover all the who's and who's in the -- whoever has any demand, they will be the one to supply. So they really have a very, very close connection with their customers and their customers' customers.

正如我所說，我們與我們的代工廠合作夥伴保持著非常密切的聯繫，而且——作為行業主導者，我們的代工廠合作夥伴能夠滿足所有客戶的需求——無論誰有需求，他們都會提供產品。所以他們與客戶以及客戶的客戶之間確實有著非常非常密切的聯繫。

Since we have a very close communication with them, so whatever information that they're gathering, we do have the benefit of sharing some of that information to better prepare ourselves for capacity expansion.

由於我們與他們保持著非常密切的溝通，所以無論他們收集什麼信息，我們都能從中受益，分享其中的一些信息，以便更好地為產能擴張做好準備。

And as I said earlier, again, we're not going to be shy of making the necessary investment for -- particularly for the leading edge, so as to secure and also to expand our dominance in this space. And as such, we believe, at least for next year, we will continue to see pretty heavy investments in our capacity as well as technology in this -- in the leading edge.

正如我之前所說，我們不會吝惜必要的投資，尤其是在前沿領域，以確保並擴大我們在該領域的統治地位。因此，我們相信，至少在明年，我們將繼續增加對產能和技術的投入，並保持領先地位。

So is it fair to say next year machinery CapEx is likely to be still higher than this year?

那麼，明年機械設備的資本支出是否可能仍高於今年？

We will give you better guidance once we complete our budget cycle, which is starting now. And we will reserve this question to next quarter.

我們將在完成預算週期後（現在開始）為您提供更好的指導。我們將把這個問題留到下個季度再討論。

Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley.

查理陳，摩根士丹利。

Yeah, that question is about T-Glass resulting on the shortage of substrates. I'm not sure if you've heard, there would be kind of a risk factor for ASE Group to grow your revenue next year because we start to hear some customers' hard time to get the substrate sourced. And how would the ASE to help our customers to get a more sufficient supply?

是的，這個問題是關於T型玻璃導致基材短缺的問題。我不知道您是否聽說過，對於日月光集團來說，明年的收入成長可能會面臨一定的風險，因為我們開始聽到一些客戶反映，他們很難找到合適的基材。那麼，ASE 將如何幫助我們的客戶獲得更充足的供應？

Your -- Charlie, your second -- or your third question is regarding overall T-Glass supply and how it impacts our -- whether it would impact our overall supply chain going forward?

查理，你的第二個問題，或者說第三個問題，是關於T-Glass的整體供應情況，以及它對我們——它是否會對我們未來的整體供應鏈產生影響？

Yeah. And how would the ASE manage or help your customers on this period of shortage?

是的。那麼，在物資短缺時期，ASE將如何管理或幫助您的客戶？

Like I said, there's a lot of uncertainties that's ahead of us, so -- like running any other business, there still is going to be ups and downs, there's going to be changes. But right now, I think whatever we're seeing today, maybe some of the materials or -- don't ask me what T-Glass is, but some of the materials may have a longer lead time.

正如我所說，我們面前有很多不確定因素，所以——就像經營任何其他企業一樣，仍然會有起起伏伏，會有變化。但就目前而言，我認為我們今天看到的某些材料，或者——別問我 T-Glass 是什麼，但某些材料的交付週期可能會更長。

But at this time, we haven't seen any real disruptions on our service to our customers at this point. I think if anything else, being the dominant player, if there's any problem, we're the ones that our customers come to, and we certainly have the best leverage in trying to secure the needed materials or variable components that will be needed for the -- for serving them.

但就目前而言，我們還沒有看到對客戶服務的任何真正中斷。我認為，作為行業領導者，如果出現任何問題，我們的客戶都會來找我們，而且我們在爭取為他們提供服務所需的材料或可變組件方面，肯定擁有最大的優勢。

Got you. So I would assume, for those materials or substrate, if there will be any cost or price increase, ASE would fully pass-through to customers? Is it right or you would charge some markup because those materials are getting harder to get?

抓到你了。所以我認為，對於這些材料或基材，如果成本或價格上漲，每日月光會將全部成本轉嫁給客戶嗎？這樣做合理嗎？還是因為這些材料越來越難取得，所以你會收取一定的加價？

We will find the most suitable pricing for current situation.

我們將根據當前情況找到最合適的定價方案。

Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

Bruce Lu，高盛集團。

I think I asked this question last quarter, but I want to ask it again. What is the CapEx to revenue nowadays? Or is there any changes in terms of like how long does it take to see the revenue after you invest your CapEx? The reason I ask this is that you invest for TWD1.8 billion CapEx last year and 3-point something billion this year, right? But you generate additional TWD1 billion of revenue this year, but you also can only generate additional TWD1 billion next year.

我想我上個季度問過這個問題，但我還想再問一次。如今資本支出與收入比是多少？或者說，在投入資本支出後，需要多長時間才能看到收益，這方面是否有任何變化？我這麼問是因為你們去年投資了18億新台幣的資本支出，今年投資了30多億新台幣，對吧？但今年你可以額外創造10億新台幣的收入，而明年只能額外創造10億新台幣的收入。

Theoretically, should be able to generate a bit more than $1 billion next year, right? Is there any changes in terms of CapEx to revenue or trying to generate revenue?

理論上，明年應該能夠創造略高於10億美元的收入，對吧？在資本支出與收入轉化或創收方面是否有任何變化？

Bruce, you're looking for the magic solution in terms of CapEx to revenue, right?

布魯斯，你是在尋找資本支出轉化為收入的靈丹妙藥，對吧？

Which Joseph used to give us.

約瑟以前常常給我們這些。

Well, first of all, the TWD3 million plus CapEx is not entirely for leading-edge. I think -- for this year, I think 55% of that is for leading edge. And bear in mind that that's just a number. We don't make capacity expansion overnight. Equipment needs to be delivered. You don't have this equipment all delivered at once, right? Things move progressively.

首先，超過 300 萬新台幣的資本支出並不完全用於尖端技術。我認為——就今年而言，我認為其中 55% 用於前沿技術。請記住，這只是一個數字。我們不可能一夕之間擴大產能。需要運送設備。你們不會一次把所有設備都送到吧？事物是逐步發展的。

So just simple math, if it's TWD1.8 billion worth of CapEx, that means now, on average, TWD900 million worth of new capacity being put in. So this year, if it's a TWD1 billion increase, that ratio seems to be still on track.

簡單計算一下，如果資本支出為 18 億新台幣，那就意味著現在平均每年新增價值 9 億新台幣的產能。所以今年，如果成長10億新台幣，這個比例似乎仍然在預期之內。

Of course, the other half of the investment will start to generate revenue, but there is always a time gap between when the machineries -- or the CapEx being spent and when the revenue is being generated. I'm not saying that. I'm not giving you -- I'm not saying that we can only generate TWD1 billion worth of new revenue coming in. I'm just saying that at this point, we are very, very confident that we can have at least TWD1 billion worth leading edge revenue -- new revenue coming in next year.

當然，另一半投資將會開始產生收入，但從機器設備（或資本支出）投入使用到產生收入之間總會存在時間差。我不是那個意思。我不是說——我不是說我們只能創造價值 10 億新台幣的新收入。我只是想說，目前我們非常有信心，明年至少能獲得價值 10 億新台幣的領先收入——新的收入將來自前沿技術。

For the majority of the leading edge at this point, we're still in the earlier stage at this point, and we're still gathering data to come up with the more meaningful investment intensity on this kind of investment. But from the limited data that we've gathered so far, I think the traditional TWD1 of investment creating TWD1 of annual revenue seems still be the case for the main businesses that we are entering now, which is OS and test.

目前，大多數尖端技術仍處於早期階段，我們仍在收集數據，以便對這類投資進行更有意義的投資。但從我們目前收集到的有限數據來看，我認為傳統的1新台幣投資創造1新台幣年收入的模式，對於我們現在進入的主要業務——操作系統和測試——似乎仍然適用。

So one to one. That's the major number. It still works.

所以是一對一。這是主要數字。它還能用。

Still applies. But like I said, we are still in the process of getting more data. And bear in mind that the -- our capacity is not in full ramp at this point. So it's going to take a little bit more time.

仍然適用。但正如我所說，我們仍在收集更多數據。請記住，目前我們的產能尚未完全恢復。所以還需要一些時間。

My plan is simple, right? 45% of your TWD3-point-something billion CapEx is USD2 billion, right? I mean, you just mentioned that TWD3.8 billion something, 55% is for matured technology. Let's say, 45% -- let's say, 50% of your TWD3-point-something billion CapEx this year, that's close to TWD2 billion for next year in terms of incremental new revenue from AI. That's how the math works.

我的計劃很簡單，對吧？你30多億新台幣的資本支出中，45%是20億美元，對吧？我的意思是，你剛才提到了 38 億多新台幣，其中 55% 用於成熟技術。假設今年您 30 多億新台幣的資本支出中有 45%——或者說 50%——那麼明年人工智慧帶來的新增收入將接近 20 億新台幣。這就是數學的運作方式。

No, that's not how the math works. We don't live on math. We live in the real world.

不，數學不是這麼算的。我們並非靠數學過活。我們生活在現實世界。

Well, I only know math.

我只會數學。

Well, if you're calling me conservative, well, call me conservative.

好吧，如果你要說我是保守派，那就說我是保守派吧。

There's no question on the floor.

現場沒有任何疑問。

Okay. I guess, time has pretty much run out. I would like to thank everyone for participating in the call. I look forward to seeing you all, either during the quarter or at the next earnings release.

好的。我想，時間差不多已經到了。感謝各位參與此次電話會議。我期待在本季或下次財報發表會上見到大家。

Okay. We are having a good run, and we'll continue to have a good run going into next year. And we're confident that we will continue to deliver good performances and good numbers for you. We'll see you next quarter. Thank you very much.

好的。我們目前勢頭良好，明年也會繼續保持良好勢頭。我們有信心繼續為您帶來良好的業績和亮眼的成績。我們下個季度再見。非常感謝。