(AFRM) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. Welcome to the Affirm Holdings Fourth Quarter and Fiscal Year 2023 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded, and a replay of the call will be available on our Investor Relations website for a reasonable period of time after the call. I'd now like to turn the call over to Zane Keller, Director, Investor Relations. Thank you. You may begin.

下午好。歡迎參加 Affirm Holdings 第四季度和 2023 財年收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音，電話會議的重播將在電話會議結束後的合理時間內在我們的投資者關係網站上提供。我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係總監 Zane Keller。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Thank you, operator. Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone listening that today's call may contain forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties, including those set forth in our filings with the SEC, which is -- which are available on our Investor Relations website. Actual results may differ materially from any forward-looking statements that we make today. These forward-looking statements speak only as of today, and the company does not assume any obligation or intent to update them, except as required by law.

謝謝你，接線員。在開始之前，我想提醒各位聽眾，今天的電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中列出的風險和不確定性，這些風險和不確定性可在我們的投資者關係網站上找到。實際結果可能與我們今天做出的任何前瞻性陳述存在重大差異。這些前瞻性陳述僅代表今天的情況，公司不承擔任何更新這些前瞻性陳述的義務或意圖，除非法律要求。

In addition, today's call may include non-GAAP financial measures. These measures should be considered as a supplement to and not a substitute for GAAP financial measures. For historical non-GAAP financial measures, reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in our earnings supplement slide deck, which is available on our Investor Relations website.

此外，今天的電話會議可能包括非公認會計準則財務指標。這些措施應被視為對 GAAP 財務措施的補充而不是替代。對於歷史非 GAAP 財務指標，可以在我們的收益補充幻燈片中找到與最直接可比的 GAAP 指標的調節表，該幻燈片可在我們的投資者關係網站上找到。

Hosting today's call with me are Max Levchin, Affirm's Founder and Chief Executive Officer; and Michael Linford, Affirm's Chief Financial Officer. In line with our practice in prior quarters, we will begin with brief opening remarks from Max before proceeding immediately into Q&A. On that note, I will turn the call over to Max to begin. Max?

與我一起主持今天電話會議的是 Affirm 創始人兼首席執行官 Max Levchin；以及 Affirm 首席財務官 Michael Linford。按照我們前幾個季度的做法，我們將以 Max 的簡短開場白開始，然後立即進行問答。就此而言，我將把電話轉給馬克斯開始。最大限度？

Thank you, Zane. Thanks, everyone, for joining, and I hope you've had a chance to read our quarterly letter as it includes lots of great information. I mentioned in the letter, we're very proud of the team's accomplishments this quarter, closing out the fiscal year on a high note. In our fiscal Q4, we exceeded our outlook across all key metrics, were profitable on an adjusted operating income basis, improved our already great credit metrics while accelerating growth and launched with some amazing brands on the platform. Some of these brands are so cool, we can't even say their names. You just have to go shopping to find them.

謝謝你，贊恩。感謝大家的加入，我希望您有機會閱讀我們的季度信件，因為其中包含許多重要信息。我在信中提到，我們對團隊本季度取得的成就感到非常自豪，以高調結束了本財年。在我們的第四財季，我們的所有關鍵指標都超出了我們的預期，在調整後的營業收入基礎上實現了盈利，在加速增長的同時改善了我們已經很好的信用指標，並在平台上推出了一些令人驚嘆的品牌。其中一些品牌非常酷，我們甚至無法說出它們的名字。你只需要去購物就能找到它們。

Dear to my product developing heart, we're finally able to brag about the Affirm Card's progress. We're energized by the momentum we're seeing and are investing significant energy into making the card the top-of-wallet choice for our consumers. We also expect to deliver annual profitability on an adjusted operating income basis going forward. And our disciplined performance over the last several quarters has earned us the right to return to a more aggressive pace of network growth while maintaining discipline. I tried hard to make my letter a breezy read this quarter, so I hope you have a chance to peruse it If you haven't yet. For a deeper dive into our numbers, please have a look at the one from Michael. He's a good man and thorough.

親愛的產品開發者，我們終於可以誇耀 Affirm 卡的進步了。我們對所看到的勢頭感到振奮，並投入大量精力，使該卡成為消費者的首選。我們還預計未來將在調整後的營業收入基礎上實現年度盈利能力。我們過去幾個季度的紀律性表現使我們有權在保持紀律的同時恢復更積極的網絡增長速度。我努力讓我的信在本季度讀起來輕鬆愉快，所以我希望你有機會仔細閱讀它（如果你還沒有的話）。要更深入地了解我們的數據，請查看邁克爾的數據。他是一個好人，而且很徹底。

But in case, you would like even more investor information about Affirm, we're pleased to announce that we will be holding an investor forum on November 14 in New York. At the event, you will hear from several of our management team members, and we will provide an update on our commercial and product initiatives as well as our financial framework. Please look for additional information, including registration details on our Investor Relations website as we get closer to the event.

但如果您想了解更多有關 Affirm 的投資者信息，我們很高興地宣布，我們將於 11 月 14 日在紐約舉辦投資者論壇。在活動中，您將聽到我們幾位管理團隊成員的講話，我們將提供有關我們的商業和產品計劃以及財務框架的最新信息。隨著活動臨近，請在我們的投資者關係網站上查找更多信息，包括註冊詳細信息。

Back to you, Zane.

回到你身邊，贊恩。

Thank you, Max. With that, we will now take your questions. Operator, please open the line for our first question.

謝謝你，麥克斯。現在我們將回答您的問題。接線員，請接通我們的第一個問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Tim Chiodo with Credit Suisse.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自瑞士信貸銀行的蒂姆·奇奧多（Tim Chiodo）。

Great. Max, I believe you were just saying around the right to reaccelerate investment. I just want to make sure I have this right, though, in terms of what's implied for the guide for the upcoming year. If we take the GMV guide and the ROTC as a percentage of GMV and think about the 2% operating margin, it seems to imply that there's only sort of a low single-digit growth in your OpEx base for this year. One, is that investment under the hood with some savings elsewhere and maybe just provide a little added context around that, it seems to imply not a whole lot of expense growth.

偉大的。馬克斯，我相信你只是在談論重新加速投資的權利。不過，我只是想確保我對來年指南的含義是正確的。如果我們將 GMV 指南和 ROTC 視為 GMV 的百分比，並考慮 2% 的營業利潤率，這似乎意味著今年的運營支出基數只有較低的個位數增長。一是在其他地方進行一些儲蓄的幕後投資，也許只是提供了一些額外的背景信息，這似乎並不意味著大量的費用增長。

That is accurate. Some sort of a lean and mean code writing machine joke comes to mind, but I'm not capable of those, but we have been more productive than perhaps ever in our history over the last 6 months or so. Certainly last 3, we've really just built a lot of great stuff, and we have no intention of slowing down, looking for efficiencies.

這是準確的。我想到了某種精簡而刻薄的代碼編寫機器笑話，但我沒有能力做到這一點，但在過去 6 個月左右的時間裡，我們的生產力可能比歷史上任何時候都高。當然，在過去的三年裡，我們確實剛剛構建了很多很棒的東西，並且我們無意放慢腳步，尋求效率。

Our next question comes from the line of Ramsey El-Assal with Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的拉姆齊·阿薩爾 (Ramsey El-Assal)。

You guys called out growing merchants at a good year-over-year clip and also some new partner signings and expansions. Can you give us your updated thought on the growth algorithm of the business in terms of what you're expecting from existing customers versus new logos and maybe there's a new category, which is sort of product now that Affirm Card seems to be inflecting. How should we think about those 3 forces kind of -- what's more important to drive growth going forward?

你們稱讚了商家的逐年增長，以及一些新合作夥伴的簽約和擴張。您能否向我們提供您對業務增長算法的最新想法，即您對現有客戶與新徽標的期望，也許有一個新類別，這是 Affirm Card 似乎正在改變的產品。我們應該如何思考這三種力量——對於推動未來增長來說，哪一個更重要？

It's a great question. Thank you, as always. So as should be already apparent in some of the writing we did, the highest efficiency way for us to grow kind of what constitutes the existing business is growth through and with our platform partners. And that's where we really can invest the way we know how to do our best work, building products, building features, figuring out how to partner holistically across very, very large surface areas, Shopify, Walmart, et cetera, that's where kind of high, high leverage for every line of code, you get some number of billions dollars or something like that. That's the growth vector for the existing business.

這是一個很好的問題。謝謝你，一如既往。因此，正如我們所做的一些文章中已經顯而易見的那樣，我們發展現有業務的最有效方式是通過我們的平台合作夥伴並與我們一起發展。這就是我們真正可以投資的地方，我們知道如何做到最好的工作，構建產品，構建功能，弄清楚如何在非常非常大的領域進行整體合作，Shopify，沃爾瑪等等，這就是高的地方，每一行代碼的高槓桿作用，你都會獲得數十億美元或類似的東西。這是現有業務的增長向量。

You saw the sort of near vertical line we're seeing in the sign-ups with the card, but it's coming from a tiny base. And so at some point, it's going to be -- at this point, I can say that with some amount of confidence, a massive business for us, and we have all the confidence and all the investment to back that confidence up. But in the very immediate future, majority of the growth of GMV will certainly come from existing partnerships with platforms. We're still quite actively signing up new merchants. We're still figuring out ways of expanding programs with those merchants but differently, expanding our share of cart with them. But that's roughly the order where we concentrate our energy (inaudible) my time is largely spent figuring out what next 5 moves for the card looks like, I think the core business is a fairly well-oiled machine. We've got some extraordinary partners. We've done well for them. They're quite happy with how we're doing together, and we'll continue doing lots of great work there, too.

你看到了我們在卡片註冊中看到的那種接近垂直的線，但它來自一個很小的基地。因此，在某個時候，我可以說，只要有一定的信心，這對我們來說是一項巨大的業務，我們有所有的信心和所有的投資來支持這種信心。但在不久的將來，GMV 的大部分增長肯定將來自與平台的現有合作夥伴關係。我們仍然非常積極地簽約新商家。我們仍在尋找擴大與這些商家合作的計劃的方法，但不同的是，擴大我們與他們的購物車份額。但這大致是我們集中精力的順序（聽不清），我的時間主要花在弄清楚該卡的接下來 5 個動作是什麼樣子，我認為核心業務是一台運轉良好的機器。我們有一些非凡的合作夥伴。我們為他們做得很好。他們對我們的合作方式非常滿意，我們也將繼續在那裡做很多出色的工作。

Okay. Really quick follow-up for me. Are you worried? Or what do you expect from the student loan repayment restarting coming up here? There's been a little bit of media about it but, I'm just curious what your view is in terms of how that would impact the credit environment in the U.S.

好的。對我來說真的很快的跟進。你擔心嗎？或者您對即將開始的學生貸款償還有何期望？有一些媒體對此進行了報導，但我只是好奇您對這將如何影響美國的信貸環境有何看法。

So we've included that in our forecast. So we don't expect it to be something that just happens in a different galaxy. We expect it to be a modest headwind for us or at least we're prepared for that, and it's priced in, if you will, to our numbers. I have to give a bit of credit where it's due. I read Mizuho, Dan Dolev's colleagues wrote a nice piece describing what they think will happen to BNPL industry vis-a-vis the student loan repayment restarts. And I won't comment on exact numbers, but I have to say directionally, we're in agreement with what they found in the research. So I think it's a good place to look for thoughts on that. But we don't think it's nothing. We don't think it's very significant either.

所以我們已將其納入我們的預測中。所以我們不希望它只是發生在不同的星系中。我們預計這對我們來說是一個溫和的阻力，或者至少我們已經做好了準備，如果你願意的話，它的價格也反映在我們的數字中。我必須給予一些應有的讚揚。我讀到 Mizuho，Dan Dolev 的同事寫了一篇很好的文章，描述了他們認為 BNPL 行業相對於學生貸款償還重啟將會發生的情況。我不會評論確切的數字，但我必須定向地說，我們同意他們在研究中發現的內容。所以我認為這是一個尋找對此想法的好地方。但我們並不認為這沒什麼。我們認為這也不是很重要。

Our next question comes from the line of Rayna Kumar with UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀 (UBS) 的雷娜·庫馬爾 (Rayna Kumar)。

Good quarter. I just want to ask you about your loan delinquency rate, it came in better than expected in the fourth quarter. You saw a sequential decline in 3Q versus 4Q. What makes you think that there will be an increase in the first half in '24?

好季度。我只是想問一下你們的貸款拖欠率，第四季度的情況好於預期。您看到第三季度與第四季度相比連續下降。是什麼讓您認為24年上半年會有增長？

Seasonality. We know our borrowers well. We know when they have improvements to their personal cash flow, and we know when they struggle a little bit, and we are trying to be in front of that. But it's -- credit is always job #1. We're in control of what's happened and what will happen.

季節性。我們非常了解借款人。我們知道他們的個人現金流何時有所改善，我們知道他們何時遇到了一些困難，我們正在努力走在前面。但信用永遠是第一位的工作。我們掌控已發生的事情和將要發生的事情。

Got it. Okay. And then I just want to ask you about the CFPB and the credit reporting bureaus they, of course, continue to push for greater reporting of purchases financed through the BNPL. And you've been a proponent of greater reporting transparency. But this could also be at odds with your strategy of increasing the frequency and usage of your financing solutions. Do you think greater credit reporting will drive down consumer usage of BNPL? Or if you can just talk about your thoughts on that.

知道了。好的。然後我只想問一下 CFPB 和信用報告局的情況，他們當然會繼續推動對通過 BNPL 融資的購買進行更多報告。您一直是提高報告透明度的支持者。但這也可能與您增加融資解決方案的頻率和使用率的策略相矛盾。您認為加強信用報告是否會降低消費者對 BNPL 的使用？或者您可以談談您對此的想法嗎？

It's a good question. Obviously, we're strongly engaged with CFPB. We consider them to be our regulator because we are a financial services company of scale. And I happen to -- and my team as well happens to believe that credit reporting is a really important piece of the puzzle. We want to make sure that consumers benefit, those that pay us back on time anyway, from their timely repayment in their credit reporting.

這是一個好問題。顯然，我們與 CFPB 有著密切的合作。我們認為他們是我們的監管者，因為我們是一家規模較大的金融服務公司。我碰巧——我的團隊也碰巧相信信用報告是這個難題中非常重要的一部分。我們希望確保消費者，即那些按時還款的消費者，從他們的信用報告中及時還款中受益。

Part of the work we have done and will do with the bureaus and with our competitors and peers in the industry is actually making sure that the way this is reported is reflective of the factual usage of the product or scores, but also does not unduly punish or reward consumers through idiosyncratic sort of outcomes of the scores. But part of why BNPL world does not like to report to the bureaus is because the original scoring systems used by the bureaus, their own or (inaudible) ones don't really correctly account for what these loans look like, just the sheer multitude of them. And so part of the work we're doing with the industry and the bureaus is to make sure that it works the right way for the end customer.

我們已經和將要與各主管局以及我們的競爭對手和業內同行所做的部分工作實際上是確保報告的方式反映了產品或分數的實際使用情況，但也不會過度懲罰或者通過特殊的分數結果來獎勵消費者。但 BNPL 世界不喜歡向各局報告的部分原因是各局使用的原始評分系統，他們自己的或（聽不清）的評分系統並沒有真正正確地解釋這些貸款的樣子，只是大量的貸款他們。因此，我們與行業和監管機構合作的部分工作是確保它以正確的方式為最終客戶服務。

Our next question comes from the line of Dan Dolev with Mizuho.

我們的下一個問題來自 Dan Dolev 和 Mizuho 的對話。

Max, amazing results here. I can't get more excited about the Affirm Cards, Debit+. My only question is, can you maybe give us the main building blocks for the 2024 guide? So what are you incorporating in terms of Debit+? What should we know like -- can you maybe give us like a little path of -- like a bridge of how we can think about 2024 with all the puts and takes.

麥克斯，這裡的結果令人驚嘆。我對 Affirm 卡、Debit+ 感到無比興奮。我唯一的問題是，您能為我們提供 2024 年指南的主要構建模塊嗎？那麼，您在藉記+方面融入了什麼？我們應該知道什麼——你能給我們一條小路嗎——就像一座橋樑，讓我們如何思考 2024 年的所有變化。

Yes. Thanks, I'll grab that one, and Max, feel free to add on anything. I think for the full year, we've put out what we think is the floor will exceed $24 billion in GMV. And that really reflects some uncertainty around where the ceiling is driven in part by things like the Affirm Card. The Affirm Card is very early. The charts that we have in our letter showed that kind of steep inflection and early trajectory, which is really exciting, but we're not sure where and when we get to anything that approximates as a peak there.

是的。謝謝，我會抓住那個，麥克斯，請隨意添加任何內容。我認為全年 GMV 的下限將超過 240 億美元。這確實反映了一些不確定性，上限部分是由確認卡等因素驅動的。確認卡很早。我們在信中提供的圖表顯示了這種陡峭的拐點和早期軌跡，這確實令人興奮，但我們不確定何時何地我們會達到近似峰值的水平。

With respect to the margin structure in the business, we would expect to see some -- obviously, the full year impact of a higher rate environment. If you remember, the course of last fiscal year as rates were constantly rising. And we're at or near the higher end of that rate cycle and would expect that to play out with respect to some headwinds in the cost side. And to offset that, of course, we have some of our consumer pricing initiatives, which will begin to bear real fruit. And all of that is kind of in the top line part of the business. And then with respect to operating expenses, we do expect the full year benefit of the restructuring actions that we took earlier this year, enabling us to deliver what we think will be a profitable year on an adjusted operating income basis.

就業務的利潤結構而言，我們預計會看到一些——顯然是較高利率環境對全年的影響。如果您還記得的話，上一財年的利率不斷上升。我們正處於或接近該利率週期的高端，並預計這將在成本方面的一些不利因素中發揮作用。當然，為了抵消這一影響，我們採取了一些消費者定價舉措，這些舉措將開始產生真正的成果。所有這些都屬於業務的頂線部分。然後就運營費用而言，我們確實預計今年早些時候採取的重組行動將帶來全年效益，使我們能夠在調整後的運營收入基礎上實現我們認為的盈利年度。

Got it. And can I squeeze one more in? Shopify is pretty bold up on the in-store experience. Are you seeing any of that in the new initiatives?

知道了。我可以再擠一顆嗎？ Shopify 在店內體驗方面相當大膽。您在新舉措中看到了這些嗎？

It's there. It's certainly not fully rolled out yet, but it's definitely something that Shopify is very committed to and as a good partner with, so are we. So we have lots of work to do there. As I've said many times before, in store is the next frontier. I think frequency is the single most important thing we can focus on in terms of just building out the network and most people still shop in stores, at least as much as online or more like 4x more. And so being offline is really important. That was a great opportunity. We're scaling that up with them.

在那。它當然還沒有完全推出，但這絕對是 Shopify 非常致力於的事情，並且作為良好的合作夥伴，我們也是如此。所以我們在那裡還有很多工作要做。正如我之前多次說過的，商店是下一個前沿領域。我認為頻率是我們在構建網絡方面可以關注的最重要的事情，大多數人仍然在商店購物，至少與在線購物一樣多，或者更接近 4 倍。因此，離線非常重要。那是一個很好的機會。我們正在與他們一起擴大規模。

Our next question comes from the line of James Faucette with Morgan Stanley.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的 James Faucette。

I wanted to just ask a follow-up question on acceptance and merchants. It seems like in the current environment with interest rates now quite a bit higher than they were just even a year ago, that it would be a good opportunity for merchants to find up places where they could use 0% promotions and in conjunction with Affirm to help drive volumes, so without having to resort to product discounting, et cetera. So I'm just wondering kind of what your engagement is like with merchants and what is the opportunity to further drive Affirm acceptance and use through some of those promotional activities.

我想問一個關於接受和商家的後續問題。在目前的環境下，利率比一年前還要高很多，這對於商家來說是一個很好的機會，可以找到可以使用 0% 促銷的地方，並與 Affirm 結合使用有助於提高銷量，因此無需訴諸產品折扣等。因此，我只是想知道您與商家的互動情況如何，以及通過其中一些促銷活動進一步推動 Affirm 接受和使用的機會是什麼。

That's certainly, the right estimation, there are plenty of merchants who are focused on driving their top line. I mean, I think this tends to come up in our conversations on and off. But basically, if you're a fully integrated merchant with a healthy gross margin, then the best way, in my biased opinion, to protect your price and perception of your prices with consumers is to use Affirm 0% deals or fixed APR deals, which at this point, support much more than just 0%. There's lots and lots of different promotional offerings that we've constructed for our various partners. So we see great interest in that.

這當然是正確的估計，有很多商家專注於提高收入。我的意思是，我認為這往往會時不時地出現在我們的談話中。但基本上，如果您是一家具有良好毛利率的完全整合的商家，那麼在我看來，保護您的價格和消費者對價格的看法的最佳方法是使用確認0% 交易或固定年利率交易，在這一點上，支持率遠不止 0%。我們為不同的合作夥伴提供了很多不同的促銷產品。所以我們對此非常感興趣。

There's plenty of merchants who are resellers and they're fairly far down the supply chain, they do not have the margin to support zeros, and it's difficult for them. Sometimes, we're able to bring in manufacturers of the original equipment or the original items and they step in and create 0% deals, and we have a healthy number of those and have a lot of plans to expand that but, generally speaking, you're exactly right. There's plenty of worry by merchants to keep moving the merchandise they need to discount, discounting kills price integrity and we're here to help.

有很多商家都是經銷商，他們在供應鏈中處於相當遠的位置，他們沒有足夠的利潤來支持零，這對他們來說很困難。有時，我們能夠引入原始設備或原始物品的製造商，他們介入並創造 0% 的交易，我們有很多這樣的交易，並且有很多計劃來擴展，但一般來說，你是完全正確的。商家非常擔心繼續出售他們需要打折的商品，打折會破壞價格的完整性，我們隨時為您提供幫助。

And then on RLTC, it seems like it was good to see that margin, particularly on Debit+ and the ramp you're seeing obviously. How should we think about the mix between interest-bearing or pay now or Pay in 4 on more of a medium-term basis for that product?

然後在 RLTC 上，看到這樣的利潤似乎是件好事，特別是在藉記+和你明顯看到的斜坡上。對於該產品，我們應該如何考慮計息、立即付款或 4 分期付款之間的組合？

That's a great question. So for the moment, I am personally a little bit [onerous] in a sense that we are not quite done improving the frequency. So my goal or the company's goal, the team's goal anyway is to make Affirm Card the top-of-wallet purchasing device, which means that whatever your percentage of pay-now transactions is, I want them all and whatever it is you might put on your credit card, I want you to put on the Debit+/Affirm Card. So the moment that sits at 42% pay now or something like that, and the rest is both interest-bearing and noninterest-bearing.

這是一個很好的問題。所以目前，我個人有點[繁重]，因為我們還沒有完全完成頻率的改進。所以我的目標或者公司的目標，團隊的目標無論如何都是讓 Affirm Card 成為錢包頂部的購買設備，這意味著無論你現在付款交易的比例是多少，我都想要它們，無論你可能投入什麼在您的信用卡上，我希望您添加借記+/確認卡。因此，現在支付 42% 或類似的費用，其餘的都是有息和無息的。

The really cool footnote in the non-pay now part of this is that we are in control of which one you choose. We are the ones presenting a modified version of Adaptive Checkout, both before and after the swipe wherever you decide to go in terms of borrowing. And so we have a lot of control over where you're seeing 0s and we're not seeing 0s and depends very much on the merchant contracts and promotional activities we have with them. But in terms of the target pay now versus not, we'll start reporting on those once we get to a certain level of scale, but at the moment, more of each kind is better.

現在的非付費部分中真正很酷的腳註是我們可以控制您選擇哪一個。我們是提供自適應結賬修改版本的公司，無論您決定去哪裡借閱，無論是在刷卡之前還是之後。因此，我們對在哪裡看到 0 以及在哪裡看不到 0 有很大的控制權，這在很大程度上取決於我們與他們簽訂的商家合同和促銷活動。但就現在與未來的目標薪酬而言，一旦我們達到一定的規模，我們將開始報告這些目標，但目前，每種類型的薪酬越多越好。

The other thing I add just to be really clear, the 42% stat, and we break it out in our shareholder letter, that's on a transaction basis. We would continue to expect the AOVs of pay now to be substantially lower than the interest-bearing transaction, which means on a GMV basis, the mix would be much lower in terms of percentages of pay now.

我要補充的另一件事是為了明確起見，即 42% 的統計數據，我們在股東信中對此進行了詳細說明，這是基於交易的。我們繼續預計現在的支付平均價值將大大低於計息交易，這意味著在 GMV 的基礎上，現在的支付百分比將低得多。

Our next question comes from the line of Eugene Simuni with MoffettNathanson.

我們的下一個問題來自尤金·西穆尼 (Eugene Simuni) 和莫菲特·內森森 (MoffettNathanson) 的對話。

Wanted to ask about GMV growth. It looks like it came in better than expected this quarter, at 25% year-over-year. So it would be very helpful to hear what are some of the factors that helped it grow faster whether it's macro or kind of Affirm specific? And then as a follow-up, does that -- would love to hear a bit on how you thought about your GMV guide for next year because I realize that $24 billion is the floor but that floor, if I'm doing the math correctly, implies a deceleration from that level. So why would you not be able to achieve that -- the growth rate that you achieved this quarter with GMV, next year?

想問一下GMV增長情況。看起來本季度的表現好於預期，同比增長 25%。因此，了解哪些因素有助於它更快地增長，無論是宏觀因素還是具體的肯定因素，都會非常有幫助？然後作為後續行動，我很想听聽您對明年 GMV 指南的看法，因為我意識到 240 億美元是下限，但如果我計算正確的話，這個下限，意味著從該水平減速。那麼，為什麼你明年無法實現本季度 GMV 所實現的增長率呢？

Yes. So in terms of the fourth quarter, we saw a lot of traction in our travel and ticketing business. you saw the consumer out participating in the economy in those sort of event-driven, experiential-driven spending patterns. And because of our breadth of distribution there, we were real beneficiaries of that this quarter. We also have done a lot of work to continue to optimize the checkout experience so that we can increase both uptake and our ability to capture volume on those channels and others. And we continue to ramp our largest enterprise platform partnerships as well. Those were big growers for us this quarter, and many of them were even accelerating their growth. So being positioned correctly and distributed correctly at the right parts of the economy, I think definitely benefited us a lot as well as work we've done on our side in terms of product.

是的。因此，就第四季度而言，我們的旅行和票務業務出現了很大的增長。你看到消費者以事件驅動、體驗驅動的消費模式參與經濟。由於我們在那裡的分銷範圍廣泛，我們是本季度的真正受益者。我們還做了很多工作來繼續優化結賬體驗，以便我們可以提高這些渠道和其他渠道的使用率和獲取流量的能力。我們還將繼續擴大我們最大的企業平台合作夥伴關係。這些是本季度我們的大增長者，其中許多甚至正在加速增長。因此，在經濟的正確部分進行正確定位和正確分配，我認為肯定使我們受益匪淺，也使我們在產品方面所做的工作受益匪淺。

In terms of forward-looking into the year, I think there's clearly a lot of optimism internally for where we're taking the business and the things that we're working on, and we're just mindful of the economic volatility that continues to persist. And so we're starting the year off with a thoughtful approach here and making sure we don't sign up for more than we know we will deliver. I think the deceleration point, I think that we would expect there to be -- as we continue to scale some of our largest platforms, slightly lower growth rate as we do achieve something that looks more like a normalized distribution or penetration on those largest platforms. And yet on the other side, we do have a lot of upside in our direct-to-consumer business. And how those 2 factors play out is something that we'll keep you in the loop on throughout the course of this fiscal year.

就今年的前瞻性而言，我認為內部顯然對我們的業務發展方向和我們正在開展的工作持樂觀態度，而且我們只是注意到經濟的持續波動。堅持。因此，我們在新的一年開始時會採取深思熟慮的方法，並確保我們簽署的協議不會超出我們所知的交付範圍。我認為減速點是我們期望的——隨著我們繼續擴展一些最大的平台，增長率會略有下降，因為我們確實在這些最大的平台上實現了看起來更像是標準化分佈或滲透的目標。但另一方面，我們的直接面向消費者業務確實有很多優勢。這兩個因素如何發揮作用，我們將在本財年的整個過程中讓您隨時了解情況。

Got it. Okay. That's very helpful. And then if I can squeeze in just one more on -- related to uncertainty and economic environment next year. I don't know if I missed it, but what is your assumption about unemployment rate for next year just because it's such an important driver of credit as you often point out.

知道了。好的。這非常有幫助。然後我能否再擠出一點與明年的不確定性和經濟環境有關的問題。我不知道我是否錯過了它，但您對明年失業率的假設是什麼，因為正如您經常指出的那樣，它是信貸的重要驅動因素。

We more than anything benefit from the fact that our terms are short and controllable by us. and we price and underwrite every transaction individually. I think if we were in the business of issuing lines, we would have to have an internal economic bureau trying to predict what unemployment looks like 6 quarters from now because the lines we would have granted today would still be getting utilized or repaid then. And instead, we have the benefit of saying we don't like the latest unemployment imprint, and therefore, we're going to change our credit posture.

我們最受益的是我們的期限短且可由我們控制。我們單獨定價並承保每筆交易。我認為，如果我們從事發放貸款的業務，我們就必須有一個內部經濟局來嘗試預測 6 個季度後的失業率，因為我們今天發放的貸款到那時仍然會得到利用或償還。相反，我們可以說我們不喜歡最新的失業印記，因此我們將改變我們的信貸狀況。

The way we achieve the results that we are bragging about today in credit has nothing to do with our ability to see the future, we never knew what unemployment would be, we never knew it would be better or worse, but that's just not how this business works. We have the controls to react to literally the daily outcomes of our credit monitoring and whatever the future brings, we will adjust to that future. So our assumptions are we will continue diligence, be diligent. We're going to continue meeting every Monday morning as the entire executive team looks at all the credit results and ask the question, "Is everything great? Or do we need to do something." So I don't have a promise or a prognostication on unemployment, but I can assure you that whatever the number will be, we'll be ready for it.

我們實現今天在信貸中吹噓的結果的方式與我們預見未來的能力無關，我們永遠不知道失業會是什麼，我們永遠不知道它會更好或更糟，但這不是這樣的商業工作。我們擁有控制權，可以對信用監控的日常結果做出反應，無論未來發生什麼，我們都會適應未來。所以我們的假設是我們將繼續勤奮、勤奮。我們將繼續每週一早上開會，整個執行團隊會查看所有信用結果並提出問題：“一切都好嗎？或者我們需要做些什麼。”因此，我對失業率沒有承諾或預測，但我可以向你們保證，無論數字是多少，我們都會做好準備。

Our next question comes from the line of Dan Perlin with RBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自加拿大皇家銀行資本市場的 Dan Perlin。

I had a question on the Affirm Card, Max. In the description here, you're talking about how it works. And I just want to make sure I'm clear on this. And the question really is around early readings and what you're seeing in terms of engagement and frequency of use. So on one hand, you talk about consumers can request their payment plan in the app before checking out. And then you say it were linked to the bank account to pay with Affirm Card and then have a post decision, kind of post swipe, post tap. So when we think about those 2 types of consumer experiences, what's the early -- I would imagine linking it to the bank account creates more of a habitual frequency, but I'd be interested to know what you're seeing early stage? And is there a way to, I guess, I don't know, incentivize the consumer to go in one of those directions that would be beneficial both to you but also not detrimental to them.

我有一個關於確認卡的問題，麥克斯。在這裡的描述中，您正在談論它是如何工作的。我只是想確保我清楚這一點。問題實際上在於早期閱讀以及您在參與度和使用頻率方面所看到的內容。因此，一方面，您談到消費者可以在結帳之前在應用程序中請求他們的付款計劃。然後你說它與銀行賬戶相關聯，可以用確認卡付款，然後做出事後決定，比如事後刷卡、事後點擊。因此，當我們考慮這兩種類型的消費者體驗時，早期是什麼——我想將其與銀行賬戶聯繫起來會產生更多的習慣頻率，但我有興趣知道您在早期階段看到了什麼？我想，我不知道，有沒有一種方法可以激勵消費者朝著既對你有利又對他們無害的方向前進。

I don't know if there's a question in that. That was eloquently put and pretty much accurate. You're on the dot on everything you just said. So you're exactly right, the way the product works. And I'll break it down for like a couple of minutes just to be super clear for everybody. So you sign up for the Affirm Card, you get one in the mail. You don't have to do very much work at all. If you are an Affirm user you are eligible to use Affirm Card, and it's basically, literally an Affirm Card. You request a loan and then you swipe the card or you chip it and the next transaction becomes that loan so simple as that.

不知道這裡面有沒有問題。這句話說得很雄辯，而且非常準確。你剛才說的一切都在點上。所以你說的對，產品的工作原理是完全正確的。我將用大約幾分鐘的時間對其進行分解，以便讓每個人都非常清楚。因此，您註冊了確認卡，您就會收到一張郵寄的確認卡。您根本不必做太多工作。如果您是 Affirm 用戶，您就有資格使用 Affirm 卡，它基本上就是一張 Affirm 卡。您申請貸款，然後刷卡或芯片，下一筆交易就變得如此簡單。

It is absolutely much better for us and for our users if you connect your bank account because then you can swipe and if you didn't bother asking for a loan, you can still do it ex post facto. And if you have nothing, it becomes a pay now transaction that settles. And so it's basically this journey from, I like Affirm, I use Affirm, now I can use it in store, nothing new to learn. As soon as you get a card in the mail, it is our job, and this is exactly where I'm spending -- the most recent conversation I had about what we call the first-user experience was sometime between 1 and 2 o' clock in the morning last night. So what I spend my time on is making sure that, that conversion from Affirm Card for my well understood part of the Affirm experience to, "Oh, I can connect to my bank account and get access to all these amazing features. Of course, I want to do that." So that is where we're spending lots and lots of cycles right now. It's going really well. I don't want to get into exact numbers, but where we started and where we ended is a massive progress, and we're very, very far from done.

如果您連接您的銀行帳戶，這對我們和我們的用戶來說絕對更好，因為這樣您就可以刷卡，如果您懶得申請貸款，您仍然可以事後進行。如果你什麼都沒有，它就會變成立即付款交易來結算。所以這基本上是一個旅程，我喜歡 Affirm，我使用 Affirm，現在我可以在商店中使用它，沒有什麼新東西需要學習。一旦你收到郵寄的卡片，這就是我們的工作，這正是我花錢的地方——我最近一次關於我們所謂的首次用戶體驗的對話是在下午 1 點到 2 點之間。昨晚早上的時鐘。因此，我花時間確保將我所理解的 Affirm 體驗部分從 Affirm 卡轉換為“哦，我可以連接到我的銀行帳戶並訪問所有這些令人驚嘆的功能。當然，我想這麼做。”這就是我們現在花費大量週期的地方。一切進展順利。我不想透露確切的數字，但我們的起點和終點都是巨大的進步，而且我們距離完成還非常非常遠。

The economics improve, our ability to underwrite improves because we get to see your cash flow, our ability to offer you interesting access to things like 0% loans improves because we understand the economics a little better and just see higher frequently, higher engagement. Therefore, we can make more educated bets around lifetime value over consumers. So everything you said is pretty spot on.

經濟狀況有所改善，我們的承保能力也有所提高，因為我們可以看到您的現金流，我們為您提供有趣的機會（例如0% 貸款）的能力也有所改善，因為我們對經濟有了更好的了解，並且看到了更高的頻率和更高的參與度。因此，我們可以圍繞消費者的終身價值做出更有根據的押注。所以你說的一切都非常正確。

Let's see if there's anything else I can share on this topic. Both the frequency and the amounts and the LTV, like every metric possibly imagined is better once the card becomes fully fledged. We have internal terminology, specifically describing the sort of unconnected and connected state of the card exactly because it's such an important thing. And yes, we can absolutely -- low incentives, and we have a lot of good results that show that these incentives are not going to be especially expensive at all. If no one can tell I'm excited by this product.

讓我們看看關於這個話題我還有什麼可以分享的嗎？一旦卡變得完全成熟，頻率、金額和 LTV，就像所有可能想像到的指標一樣，都會變得更好。我們有內部術語，專門描述卡的未連接和連接狀態，因為它是如此重要。是的，我們絕對可以——低激勵措施，而且我們有很多好的結果表明這些激勵措施根本不會特別昂貴。如果沒有人能看出我對這個產品感到興奮。

Our next question comes from the line of Bryan Keane with Deutsche Bank.

我們的下一個問題來自德意志銀行的布萊恩·基恩 (Bryan Keane)。

Max, you're going to be excited because I'm going to ask you more questions about the Affirm Card. So the active consumer base, I think, spiked in the quarter. I think it's north of 200,000. I remember we had a wait list of about 1 million or so. I'm just trying to figure out, is there another big change of growth that we expect or kind of the users will be more modest growth from this level? Just trying to figure out how big that wait list is? And is there a big rollout to consumers happening as we speak?

麥克斯，你一定會很興奮，因為我要問你更多關於確認卡的問題。因此，我認為活躍的消費者基礎在本季度激增。我認為超過20萬。我記得我們的等候名單上約有 100 萬人左右。我只是想弄清楚，我們預期的增長是否會出現另一個重大變化，或者用戶的增長是否會比這個水平更加溫和？只是想弄清楚等待名單有多大？就在我們說話的時候，是否正在向消費者進行大規模推廣？

So for what it's worth the wait list included everyone that wanted the Affirm Card does not -- the current active base does not necessarily include everyone who wants one because we were very, very careful as we rolled it out in terms of credit standards. In general, while I am gushing here over this amazing product that we finally rolled out and doing really well with. On the other side of that equation is a super sort of Spartan view of credit. We cannot afford to screw that up. And so we're not going to, therefore, launching a brand-new product without a very clear understanding of exactly what repayment will look like to everyone who wants it. It's probably not a good idea, and that's certainly not what we did. But the demand for the card was and is, very, very significant.

因此，值得的是，等待名單中包括了所有想要Affirm 卡的人，但並不包括所有想要Affirm 卡的人——當前的活躍基礎並不一定包括所有想要Affirm 卡的人，因為我們在推出信用標準時非常非常小心。總的來說，雖然我在這裡滔滔不絕地談論這個令人驚嘆的產品，但我們最終推出了它並且做得非常好。等式的另一邊是超級斯巴達式的信用觀。我們不能把事情搞砸。因此，如果沒有非常清楚地了解每個想要它的人的還款方式，我們不會推出全新產品。這可能不是一個好主意，而且我們當然也沒有這麼做。但無論過去還是現在，對這張卡的需求都非常非常大。

We're not yet pushing it. In fact, there's a healthy internal debate as to the level of insistence we should take with our users. So there's a couple of million users that we consider to be sort of fully in on the Affirm story. They use us online, they use us at the point of sale, they use the virtual card number, which is like at this point, you can say it's kind of a diminished Affirm Card experience. And so that group, I have pretty high confidence once the card -- would love the card, we can push fairly hard to get them all on it. We have not done that yet, just judging by the numbers. And we reserve the right to do just so.

我們還沒有推動它。事實上，關於我們應該對用戶堅持到什麼程度，內部存在著一場健康的爭論。因此，我們認為有幾百萬用戶完全參與了 Affirm 的故事。他們在網上使用我們，他們在銷售點使用我們，他們使用虛擬卡號，就像在這一點上，你可以說這是一種減少的確認卡體驗。因此，一旦這張卡出現，我就非常有信心 - 會喜歡這張卡，我們可以相當努力地讓他們都上這張卡。我們還沒有這樣做，只是從數字來看。我們保留這樣做的權利。

That said, there's plenty of other users that don't understand Affirm as well as we want them to, and they're eligible, and some of them are signing up for the card already. And so there's still lots of work to do on first-user experience. We know, for example, I think I mentioned it in the last call, but the sort of the learning curve to date looks something like this. If you do 1 transaction, you are not guaranteed to stay with us forever. Once you do 2 transactions, you're basically in and after 3 transactions, you start treating the card as a sort of integral part of your purchasing experience. And so our goal is to both reduce the level of complexity that it takes to get our users through to understand this as well as guide them to that third transaction to just ensure that they fully grasp it. And we'll continue hammering on that.

也就是說，還有很多其他用戶並不像我們希望的那樣理解 Affirm，但他們符合資格，其中一些用戶已經註冊了該卡。因此，在首次用戶體驗方面還有很多工作要做。例如，我們知道，我想我在上次通話中提到過這一點，但迄今為止的學習曲線看起來是這樣的。如果您完成 1 筆交易，則不能保證您永遠留在我們這裡。一旦您進行了 2 筆交易，您基本上就進入了 3 筆交易，並且在完成 3 筆交易之後，您開始將卡視為您購買體驗中不可或缺的一部分。因此，我們的目標是既降低用戶理解這一點所需的複雜性，又引導他們進行第三筆交易，以確保他們完全掌握它。我們將繼續努力解決這個問題。

I expect a few more releases to go by before we feel very satisfied. And at that point, we can push the gas pedal and start basically telling people this is the only way to use Affirm at unintegrated merchants, the only way to use Affirm offline, although those avenues are still open for a reason. Does that make sense?

我希望在我們感到非常滿意之前還會再發布一些版本。到那時，我們可以踩油門並開始基本上告訴人們這是在未集成的商家中使用 Affirm 的唯一方法，是離線使用 Affirm 的唯一方法，儘管這些途徑仍然開放是有原因的。那有意義嗎？

Yes, got it. And so when you talk about this step function change or whenever that is, it's not built into the guidance, obviously. But when it happens, it's a lot of these things that you just talked about you have to feel comfortable with so that you can roll it out in mass and then obviously, the transaction volumes will continue. Just trying to figure out exactly when that step function happens where we go from these small numbers to, obviously, you think this could be pretty material. So just trying to figure out what to watch for.

是的，明白了。因此，當您談論此步驟功能更改或任何時候，顯然它並未納入指南中。但當它發生時，你剛才談到的很多事情你必須感到舒服，這樣你才能大規模推出它，然後顯然，交易量將會繼續。只是想弄清楚階躍函數何時發生，我們從這些小數字到顯然，你認為這可能是相當重要的。所以只是想弄清楚要注意什麼。

We definitely think this can and will be material one day. I am definitely not telling you or anyone when exactly that will happen. There's still a lot of work to do. We are rolling it out, like at this point, it's available broadly. If you're eligible in your app, you will find an invitation to take out the Affirm Card.

我們絕對認為有一天這會變得很重要。我絕對不會告訴你或任何人具體什麼時候會發生。還有很多工作要做。我們正在推出它，就像現在一樣，它可以廣泛使用。如果您在應用程序中符合資格，您將收到一份取出確認卡的邀請。

What I said is that we're not yet saying -- like for example, when you tap on to the card tab in the app, if you've used Affirm virtual card number, you can still do so. Like we will tell you, "Hey, by the way, you're eligible for the Affirm Card, maybe you should grab it," but it's not the same thing of saying, "Oh, you wanted to get to the Affirm onetime card, sorry, that's deprecated, you should use Affirm Card that we'll send you in the mail." So those kind of steps haven't been taken yet. But we are ramping up like you can see it in the numbers, and we have a fair number of things we're going to do, both as far as educating the end borrower to make sure that they understand how this other card works. And you will definitely take a bunch of aggressive steps to make sure that everybody who is eligible for it understands exactly that they should come get it.

我所說的是，我們還沒有說 - 例如，當您點擊應用程序中的卡選項卡時，如果您使用了確認虛擬卡號，您仍然可以這樣做。就像我們會告訴您的那樣，“嘿，順便說一下，您有資格獲得確認卡，也許您應該抓住它，”但這與說“哦，您想獲得一次性確認卡”不同。 ，抱歉，該功能已被棄用，您應該使用我們將通過郵件發送給您的確認卡。”因此，尚未採取此類措施。但我們正在加大力度，就像你在數字中看到的那樣，我們要做很多事情，包括教育最終借款人，確保他們了解另一張卡的運作方式。你肯定會採取一系列積極的步驟，以確保每個有資格獲得它的人都清楚地明白他們應該來獲得它。

Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Jeffrey with Truist Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Andrew Jeffrey。

4Q seemed like a really strong quarter from an enterprise customer standpoint. And it seems like from what we've seen perhaps Affirm even punched above its weight or well above sort of trended tender share on Prime Day. Max, can you just talk about your thought process around how much tender share you can ultimately gain at least in e-com at your enterprise customers and whether the fourth quarter might be a preview of things to come in terms of share and spend, hence, GMV growth?

從企業客戶的角度來看，第四季度似乎是一個非常強勁的季度。從我們所看到的來看，Affirm 的表現甚至超出了其重量，或者遠高於 Prime Day 的趨勢投標份額。馬克斯，您能談談您的思考過程嗎？至少在電子商務領域，您最終可以在企業客戶那裡獲得多少投標份額，以及第四季度是否可能是份額和支出方面未來事情的預覽，因此、GMV增長？

Yes. We certainly like that, obviously. We are taking share of -- lion's share of checkout share of wallet. So I feel very good about that. If you look at more mature BNPL markets, obviously, apples and oranges a little bit, but there are plenty of geos where buy now, pay later broke into north of 10%, some places even north of 20%. In the U.S. online, I think, in aggregate, we're hanging around 5% or 6% last I looked, this is -- don't quote me on that exactly, but it's that order. If you look at full commerce, both online and offline, it's decidedly sub-1%. So in terms of 99% more to go, and it will probably grow lots before it slows down. The -- it's always work. It's -- all of this is product work. Like you don't get to deliver a brand new way to pay for things without customer education, without the right level of promotion in the funnel. So it's definitely not a thing that's going to happen overnight. But on the flip side, you're exactly right. I consider this quarter a preview of things to come. Like we really focused on the right way of bringing the product to the masses and it paid off.

是的。顯然，我們當然喜歡這樣。我們正在佔據錢包結帳份額的最大份額。所以我對此感覺很好。如果你看一下更成熟的 BNPL 市場，顯然，蘋果和橙子都有一點，但有很多地區現在購買，以後付款的價格突破了 10%，有些地方甚至超過 20%。我認為，在美國網上，總的來說，我們在 5% 或 6% 左右徘徊，我上次看時，這是——不要完全引用我的話，但就是這個順序。如果你看看完整的商業活動，包括線上和線下，你會發現這個比例絕對低於 1%。因此，就未來 99% 的增長而言，在放緩之前可能會增長很多。 - 它總是有效的。所有這些都是產品工作。就像如果沒有客戶教育，沒有渠道中適當的促銷水平，你就無法提供一種全新的支付方式。所以這絕對不是一朝一夕就能發生的事情。但從另一方面來說，你是完全正確的。我認為本季度是未來事情的預演。就像我們真正專注於以正確的方式將產品帶給大眾一樣，並且它得到了回報。

Yes. That's clear. As a follow-on for Michael, can you remind us when you lap the tighter credit box? I mean I know you reserve the right to sort of to change your underwriting on the slide, but assuming that you sort of maintain the current level of economic activity, when do we see growth perhaps benefit from that?

是的。很清楚。作為邁克爾的繼任者，當您接受更嚴格的信用額度時，您能提醒我們嗎？我的意思是，我知道你們保留在幻燈片上改變承保的權利，但假設你們維持當前的經濟活動水平，我們什麼時候才能看到增長可能從中受益？

Yes. The timing initiatives that we took last year started in the early summer and through the early fall, so summer time through to early fall. So we're kind of in the midst of lapping a lot of those actions. I would say by the time we get to our second quarter is when we have a pretty normalized comparison for the biggest changes. But I do think it's important to reiterate what you said there. We changed our credit decisions a lot all the time. So it's not a decision where we make -- get together when we decide to tighten or loosen in a pretty broad steeping way. We're very tactical and surgical with how we go through and optimize where and when we want to take risk. But the specific decisions that we took in response to the consumer stress that we saw, we will have lapped by the time we get through Q2.

是的。我們去年採取的時間安排從初夏開始，一直持續到初秋，所以夏季一直到初秋。所以我們正在採取很多這樣的行動。我想說，當我們進入第二季度時，我們就會對最大的變化進行相當標準化的比較。但我確實認為重申你所說的話很重要。我們一直在多次改變信貸決策。因此，這不是我們做出的決定——當我們決定以相當廣泛的方式收緊或放鬆時聚集在一起。我們非常注重戰術和外科手術，知道如何經歷和優化我們想要冒險的時間和地點。但我們為應對所看到的消費者壓力而採取的具體決定，到第二季度時我們將已經過時。

Our next question comes from the line of Rob Wildhack with Autonomous Research.

我們的下一個問題來自 Rob Wildhack 與 Autonomous Research 的對話。

I wanted to unpack some of the earlier commentary on the margin. The guidance is for fiscal '24 revenues as a percentage of GMV to be similar to '23, '24 RLTC is the same as '23. That would imply transaction costs are also similar to '23 as a percentage of GMV. And then within that, I would assume funding costs are going to be higher. So a, is that right? And then b, is there something that's offsetting that on the cost side in terms of keeping overall transaction costs flat as a percentage of volume this year.

我想解開一些早期的評論。該指導意見要求 24 年財政收入佔 GMV 的百分比與 23 年類似，24 年 RLTC 與 23 年相同。這意味著交易成本佔 GMV 的百分比也與 23 年類似。然後，我認為融資成本將會更高。那麼，是嗎？然後，是否有什麼東西可以抵消成本方面的影響，使今年的總體交易成本佔交易量的百分比保持不變。

Yes. We -- yes, it's exactly right. And we do expect funding costs to be higher, but we also have some continued changes in the mix of the business. both in terms of the largest platforms, we'll continue to take share, which will change the shape of the timing and how we earn it. The balance sheet will also be very different this year to last year. which again will change the shape quite a bit. There's a lot of different factors that cause -- that go into that, that assessment. But the top line is right. Those things will net out to being largely flat from a revenue standpoint and an RLTC standpoint as a percentage of GMV.

是的。我們——是的，這是完全正確的。我們確實預計融資成本會更高，但我們的業務組合也將持續發生一些變化。無論是在最大的平台方面，我們都將繼續佔據份額，這將改變時機的形狀以及我們賺取份額的方式。今年的資產負債表也將與去年有很大不同。這又會大大改變形狀。有很多不同的因素會導致這種評估。但最上面那行是對的。從收入角度和 RLTC 佔 GMV 的百分比來看，這些因素將基本持平。

Got it. Could you just give some more detail or color on what you mean by the balance sheet is going to be different from this year to next year?

知道了。您能否提供更多細節或顏色來說明今年和明年的資產負債表將有所不同？

Yes. So you saw the loans on the balance sheet were obviously higher in Q4 versus the prior year and also up sequentially. We talked about an equity capital require ratio being higher as well. And we would expect therefore to -- there to be a lot more dollars sitting on the balance sheet this year than last year, which just changes the shape of the earning of the loans.

是的。因此，您可以看到第四季度資產負債表上的貸款明顯高於去年同期，而且也連續上升。我們還談到了股權資本要求比率更高。因此，我們預計今年資產負債表上的美元將比去年多得多，這只會改變貸款收入的形式。

Our next question comes from the line of Reggie Smith with JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自雷吉·史密斯與摩根大通的對話。

I've got two actually. One, I guess, a point of clarification. I guess previously, you guys talked about sustainable profitability beginning in 2024. And I guess I just wanted to check the language and see if there's been any change to your guidance. Now you're talking about annually profitably. And I'm curious if that was always the expectation or is that a minor change?

其實我有兩個。我想，有一點需要澄清。我想之前，你們談到了從 2024 年開始的可持續盈利能力。我想我只是想檢查一下語言，看看你們的指導是否有任何變化。現在你談論的是每年盈利。我很好奇這是否一直是人們的期望，還是一個微小的變化？

No, it was always the expectation. We talked about sustainable profitability. We were always thoughtful around our second quarter being a time win. The timing of GMV within the quarter as well as the sequential build from Q1 to Q2, always being distortive. And so we're careful to say that, that may be a trough, and we reiterated that in our letter. While we do expect full year profitability, we may have a quarter that may fall outside of that. Clearly, you see our Q1 guidance suggests that, that won't be in Q1 and the full year guidance being where it is, suggests, I think we're -- we feel pretty good about that overall. But we won't be disappointed if we have a quarter of negative adjusted operating income.

不，這始終是期望。我們討論了可持續盈利能力。我們總是深思熟慮，認為第二節是一場時間勝利。本季度 GMV 的時間安排以及從第一季度到第二季度的順序構建始終是扭曲的。因此，我們謹慎地說，這可能是一個低谷，我們在信中重申了這一點。雖然我們確實預計全年盈利，但我們可能有一個季度的盈利能力會超出這一範圍。顯然，你看到我們的第一季度指導表明，第一季度不會出現這種情況，而全年指導則表明，我認為我們對整體感覺非常好。但如果我們有四分之一的調整後營業收入為負值，我們也不會感到失望。

Got it. Understood. And if I could squeeze one more, a follow-up. There is a slide that you guys have in your presentation that shows the merchant discount rate for different products. And it's hard to notice that the rate for your 0% interest loans, both short and long term, hasn't changed materially in the last 2 years. And I'm curious if that's -- what's driving that? Is that -- is it a competitive dynamic? Is it strategic? Is it mix? Like why have you not been able to or been unwilling to kind of raise your discount rates there given what's happening in the interest rate and the funding environment?

知道了。明白了。如果我還能再擠一個，那就是後續。你們的演示文稿中有一張幻燈片，顯示了不同產品的商家折扣率。而且很難注意到，您的 0% 利息貸款（無論是短期還是長期）的利率在過去 2 年中沒有發生重大變化。我很好奇這是否是——是什麼推動了這一點？這是一種競爭動力嗎？具有戰略意義嗎？是混合的嗎？比如，考慮到利率和融資環境的情況，為什麼您不能或不願意提高貼現率？

Yes. It's a good question. The -- one of the things that is an important piece of backdrop as you have a rising rate environment, you've also had a lot of the retail sector having a lot of pressure on their margin structure. And so one of the challenges we've worked through over the past year is finding ways still serve as many transactions as we can for those retailers without substantial increases in their MDRs. And so for example, we've introduced fixed APRs, which have low fixed APR amounts that are still subsidized by the merchant, but don't look like the same sort of pure 0%. And so as a result, you don't see by product a substantial increase in that even though we've changed the economic offer that ultimately the merchant and consumers are going to see.

是的。這是一個好問題。這是一個重要的背景，因為利率不斷上升，許多零售行業的利潤結構也面臨著很大的壓力。因此，我們在過去一年中遇到的挑戰之一就是找到在 MDR 不大幅增加的情況下仍然為那些零售商提供盡可能多的交易服務的方法。例如，我們引入了固定年利率，固定年利率金額較低，仍由商家補貼，但看起來不像純 0%。因此，即使我們改變了商家和消費者最終將看到的經濟優惠，您也看不到產品的大幅增長。

Additionally, this view is super helpful to understand actually what the merchants are paying for a product. But it is into a complete view as we're able to think about changing down payment or credit approval thresholds, all these things factor into how we think about the total pricing with the merchant. And so you may not see the results of us getting the right value for Affirm out of that relationship showing up in the fee that the merchant pays.

此外，這種視圖對於了解商家實際為產品支付的費用非常有幫助。但這是一個完整的觀點，因為我們能夠考慮改變首付或信貸審批門檻，所有這些因素都會影響我們如何考慮與商家的總定價。因此，您可能看不到我們從這種關係中獲得 Affirm 的正確價值的結果顯示在商家支付的費用中。

Understood. And I guess, Max, you mentioned some higher gross margin merchants. And I think a previous analyst had asked about whether you're seeing any increased interest there. Is the right way to read that, that you guys haven't pushed on some of those higher margin merchants that may be a little less price-sensitive? Or like what's the takeaway from that?

明白了。我想，麥克斯，你提到了一些毛利率較高的商家。我認為之前的一位分析師曾問過您是否看到人們對該領域的興趣有所增加。你們沒有向一些利潤率較高但對價格不太敏感的商家施壓，這是正確的解讀方式嗎？或者說從中得到了什麼？

So again, I think it's -- we have a market-leading product in a very competitive space that's really exciting and a lot of entrants into the space. I think we're very proud of the fact that we've been able to hold pricing in that competitive environment, macro notwithstanding, I think that we do think about the merchants being very different depending upon their margin structure, their promotional intensity and all that factors into how we think about what MDRs make sense. But again, I think MDR is only 1 small part of the total pricing equation, which is -- takes into account a lot more than just the MDR being paid because it's obviously, to take into account the cost of the program as well. And when you think about all of these together, we think about the profitability of a particular merchant, not just the MDR that they pay.

所以，我再次認為，我們在競爭非常激烈的領域擁有市場領先的產品，這確實令人興奮，並且有很多進入者進入該領域。我認為我們非常自豪我們能夠在競爭環境中保持定價，儘管宏觀，我認為我們確實認為商家根據他們的利潤結構、促銷強度和所有因素而有很大不同這影響了我們如何看待 MDR 的意義。但同樣，我認為 MDR 只是總定價方程的一小部分，它考慮的不僅僅是支付的 MDR，因為顯然還要考慮到該計劃的成本。當你綜合考慮所有這些因素時，我們會考慮特定商家的盈利能力，而不僅僅是他們支付的 MDR。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from the line of Jason Kupferberg with Bank of America.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Jason Kupferberg。

I just wanted to start with the guidance on RLTC as a percent of GMV for F '24. I know we're saying it's going to be similar. It's hard to be precise in this macro backdrop. But just want to get a sense of kind of range of outcomes. I mean, are we talking about 10-ish basis points or so on either side of the F '23 results? Or just trying to get a sense of how wide of a range you guys might be envisioning? Like do you think there's a wider range of outcomes in F '24 compared to the way you guided F '23 for example? Just wanted to get a little more detail on that.

我只想從 F '24 的 RLTC 佔 GMV 的百分比的指導開始。我知道我們會說它會很相似。在這樣的宏觀背景下很難準確地說。但只是想了解一下結果的範圍。我的意思是，我們是否在談論 F '23 結果兩側的 10 個基點左右？或者只是想了解一下你們設想的範圍有多大？例如，與您指導 F '23 的方式相比，您是否認為 F '24 中的結果範圍更廣？只是想了解更多細節。

Good question. And the first part of your question is exactly right. I think that we're not giving a precise range because of the uncertainty and macroeconomic backdrop. I think that if you look at the range that we guided to in Q4, which we were ahead of, you can get a pretty good sense of the fact that we are sitting in a period where you're going to see a quarter-to-quarter variability.

好問題。你問題的第一部分是完全正確的。我認為，由於不確定性和宏觀經濟背景，我們沒有給出精確的範圍。我認為，如果你看看我們在第四季度指導的範圍（我們領先於該範圍），你可以很好地意識到我們正處於一個時期，你將看到四分之一到-季度變異性。

What is not in doubt in our eyes is continuing to stick within the 3% to 4% long-term framework we've put out there for revenue less transaction costs as a percentage of GMV. And what's not in doubt is our ability to pull the right cost and revenue levers to choose that outcome, when we talked about full year guidance as being things that were within our control, and we think this is one where we're going to be able to deliver. We're not going to get more specific than similar to last year right now.

在我們看來，毫無疑問的是，收入減去交易成本佔 GMV 的比例將繼續保持在 3% 至 4% 的長期框架內。毫無疑問的是，當我們談到全年指導是在我們控制範圍內的事情時，我們有能力拉動正確的成本和收入槓桿來選擇這一結果，我們認為這就是我們將要做的事情能夠交付。我們現在不會比去年更具體。

Right. Okay. So I guess it kind of sounds like you see maybe a fairly similar probability of being a little better in F '24 than being a little worse in F '24 because I know similar could obviously mean in either direction. Is that kind of how it feels?

正確的。好的。所以我想听起來你可能會看到，在 F '24 中表現更好一點的概率與在 F '24 中表現稍差一點的概率相當相似，因為我知道相似顯然可以意味著任一方向。是這樣的感覺嗎？

Yes, it's exactly right. We're -- we feel like in this rate environment, the results that we delivered in '23 are representative of the results that we would like to deliver. That being said, of course, any given quarter can move around a nontrivial amount, but nonetheless, feel like similar to '23 is a good place to model the business.

是的，完全正確。我們感覺在這種利率環境下，我們在 23 年交付的結果代表了我們希望交付的結果。話雖這麼說，當然，任何給定的季度都可能出現不小的變化，但儘管如此，感覺與 23 年類似的是對業務進行建模的好地方。

For sure. Just a quick one on Affirm Card. I saw $130 million of GMV in Q4. What are you assuming in the Q1 and the full year guidance for the Affirm Card GMV? And will you disclose the Affirm Card volumes each quarter going forward as you did this past quarter?

一定。簡單介紹一下確認卡。我看到第四季度的 GMV 為 1.3 億美元。您對 Affirm 卡 GMV 第一季度和全年指導有何假設？您是否會像上個季度那樣披露未來每個季度的確認卡數量？

Yes. We do intend to share the Affirm Card GMV every quarter. We may not share all the same stats that we did this quarter as we get going but we do think it's important to communicate the total volume there. We're not going to give super precise numbers with respect to the Affirm Card guidance for the year, but what we will say is there's a couple of points of growth that we think the card will drive.

是的。我們確實打算每個季度分享 Affirm 卡 GMV。我們可能不會分享本季度的所有相同統計數據，但我們確實認為傳達總數量很重要。我們不會給出有關今年確認卡指導的超精確數字，但我們要說的是，我們認為該卡將推動一些增長點。

Our next question comes from the line of John Hecht with Jefferies.

我們的下一個問題來自約翰·赫克特和杰弗里斯的對話。

I guess it's more tied to balance sheet stuff and marketplace stuff. I mean the -- your interest income as a percentage of total revenues has moved up as you've increased your balance sheet. So maybe some commentary on -- should that trend persist? Or should we see a leveling out of the contribution of interest income. What kind of leverage are you guys comfortable with on the balance sheet? And then final tied to that is, how is the marketplace developing? And when do you think you'll start being more active in selling loans to third parties?

我想它與資產負債表和市場的東西更相關。我的意思是，隨著資產負債表的增加，利息收入佔總收入的百分比也有所上升。那麼也許有一些評論——這種趨勢應該持續下去嗎？或者我們應該看到利息收入的貢獻趨於平穩。你們對資產負債表上什麼樣的槓桿感到滿意？最後一個與此相關的是，市場發展如何？您認為您什麼時候會開始更加積極地向第三方出售貸款？

Yes. So there's a couple of drivers that are driving the interest income up. One is, as you pointed out, the loans held for investment is higher. The second is the mix of business where we do have some of our largest enterprise partners scaling mostly with interest-bearing programs. And so the product mix has shifted. And then lastly, we've taken on some efforts to raise APRs and all of those taken together has resulted in more interest income. What's important from our perspective is the ability to do that at the point of sale and to do that in a way that doesn't impact conversion really reflects our true technology leadership in a way that I think is pretty difficult for other people to match.

是的。因此，有幾個驅動因素正在推動利息收入的增長。一是，正如您所指出的，用於投資的貸款較高。第二個是業務組合，我們確實有一些最大的企業合作夥伴主要通過計息計劃進行擴展。因此，產品結構發生了變化。最後，我們採取了一些措施來提高年利率，所有這些加在一起帶來了更多的利息收入。從我們的角度來看，重要的是能夠在銷售點做到這一點，並且以不影響轉化的方式做到這一點，真正反映了我們真正的技術領先地位，我認為這是其他人很難匹敵的。

With respect to the forward flow program or selling whole loans, it is definitely the case that the volatility in the macroeconomic conditions definitely changed the mix of business that we were doing with respect to on balance sheet or off balance sheet loan funding.

就遠期流動計劃或出售全部貸款而言，宏觀經濟狀況的波動肯定會改變我們在表內或表外貸款融資方面所做的業務組合。

That being said, the tone and tenor conversations with capital partners today is very constructive. We have a really differentiated credit performance, that's something that I think loan investors really appreciate about our platform. They know that we are both attending to it, but also can deliver differentiated results, and we're not afraid to eat our own cooking as they say. And I think that gives us some cause for being optimistic about the longer term here. And yet, we're still in a period of pretty high volatility, uncertainty. And so as we think about starting the year off and giving guidance here, we're being pretty thoughtful about not signing up for more than we know we can deliver.

話雖如此，今天與資本合作夥伴的對話基調和基調非常有建設性。我們擁有真正差異化的信用表現，我認為貸款投資者非常欣賞我們的平台。他們知道我們既關注，又能夠帶來差異化的結果，而且我們並不害怕像他們所說的那樣吃自己做的飯。我認為這讓我們有理由對長期前景持樂觀態度。然而，我們仍然處於一個波動性和不確定性相當高的時期。因此，當我們考慮開始新的一年並在此提供指導時，我們會非常謹慎地考慮不要簽署超出我們所知的交付範圍。

And our next question comes from the line of Michael Ng with Goldman Sachs.

我們的下一個問題來自高盛的 Michael Ng。

I just have 2. So the first 1 is just about the strength of your enterprise partnerships amidst the BNPL competition. Are nonexclusive merchants incentivized to offer as many BNPL products as possible, including an in-house product. If not, what are some reasons that they choose Affirm? Is it the Adaptive Checkout? The reputation for underwriting and transparency? A desire to have a less clutter checkout? Just any thoughts there would be great. And then I have a quick follow-up.

我只有 2 個。所以第一個 1 就是關於您的企業合作夥伴關係在 BNPL 競爭中的實力。非獨家商家是否有動力提供盡可能多的 BNPL 產品，包括內部產品。如果不是，他們選擇 Affirm 的原因是什麼？是自適應結帳嗎？承保和透明度的聲譽？想要更簡潔的結帳流程嗎？任何想法都會很棒。然後我會進行快速跟進。

You certainly No. The -- you say -- parts of the answer really well. In general, I think we've been saying this for a while. There's some slow-moving tendency in the industry towards what we call side by side. That said, we are -- I think, at this point, we can lay claim the best underwriters in the space. and the ones with the best suite of products. There are very few players that can scale long-term zeros, short-term zeros, Pay in 4. We've experimented with other products that are not even sort of widely available just yet, but we're introducing new financing programs all the time. And we also have a whole, what we call Powered by Affirm, the PBA stack is what our friends at Shopify for example used to do a much deeper integration. So the technical skill set, the scalability, the ability to support every imaginable product in the space typically makes us the dominant player in all these enterprise partnerships.

你當然不。你說，答案的部分內容非常好。總的來說，我想我們已經這麼說了一段時間了。該行業存在一些緩慢發展的趨勢，即我們所說的並排。也就是說，我認為，在這一點上，我們可以聲稱是該領域最好的承銷商。以及擁有最好的產品套件的公司。很少有玩家能夠擴展長期零、短期零、Pay in 4。我們已經嘗試了其他尚未廣泛使用的產品，但我們正在不斷推出新的融資計劃時間。我們還有一個整體，我們稱之為 Powered by Affirm，PBA 堆棧是我們在 Shopify 的朋友用來進行更深入集成的。因此，技術技能、可擴展性以及支持該領域每一種可以想像到的產品的能力通常使我們成為所有這些企業合作夥伴關係中的主導者。

There's definitely interest, I think, from everyone. It's still a very competitive space. There's plenty of people asking themselves, "Well, maybe we need to have an in-house product." I think in practice, if your business is not very similar to Affirm's. It's pretty hard to replicate what we do. We've been at it for nearing 15 years and have done a pretty good job with it. So I think we expect to continue dominating certainly that part of the curve.

我想，每個人肯定都會感興趣。這仍然是一個競爭非常激烈的領域。很多人問自己：“好吧，也許我們需要一款內部產品。”我認為在實踐中，如果你的業務與Affirm的業務不是很相似。複製我們所做的事情非常困難。我們已經在這方面投入了近 15 年，並且做得非常好。因此，我認為我們預計將繼續主導曲線的這一部分。

And enterprises like to partner with serious people that have serious engineering teams that bring strength to those kind of relationships. That's why we won the original sort of big API deal, if you will, with Shopify, and we've sort of gone from strength to strength. So I don't expect that to change very much. Undoubtedly, there will be players popping up alongside us. We don't expect that to dramatically change our results.

企業喜歡與認真的人合作，這些人擁有認真的工程團隊，可以為這種關係帶來力量。這就是為什麼我們與 Shopify 贏得了最初的大型 API 交易（如果你願意的話），並且我們的實力不斷增強。所以我預計這種情況不會有太大改變。毫無疑問，將會有一些球員出現在我們身邊。我們預計這不會顯著改變我們的結果。

Great. And then the second question was just about Affirm Card. I was surprised to read that the card volumes are delivering at a similar RLTC as Affirm overall. And I was also surprised that pay now was only 10% of volumes. Was that surprising to you at all? Is there anything that you guys are doing that have resulted in interest-bearing being such an outsized volume on the Affirm Card for with such a high frequency kind of top-of-wallet product.

偉大的。第二個問題是關於確認卡的。我很驚訝地發現卡片交易量的 RLTC 與 Affirm 的總體交付量相似。而且令我驚訝的是，現在的付費僅佔銷量的 10%。這讓你感到驚訝嗎？你們正在做的事情是否導致確認卡上的利息對於如此高頻率的頂級錢包產品而言如此巨大。

Surprise, no. Food for thought, for sure. So we designed the card with a very specific agenda of creating top-of-wallet experience or habituation as sort of the pop psychology term. Affirm on average is used basically 4 times a year, and that's great, but that's not nearly enough. You're trying to be a payment network, you have to be there for doughnuts and coffee and for bicycles and couches. And we've more or less conquered the bicycle and couch space, and we're trying to take our unfair share of doughnuts and coffee.

驚訝，沒有。當然，值得深思。因此，我們在設計這張卡時有一個非常具體的議程，即創造錢包頂部的體驗或習慣，就像流行心理學術語一樣。 Affirm 平均每年基本上使用 4 次，這很好，但這還不夠。你正試圖成為一個支付網絡，你必須在那裡提供甜甜圈、咖啡、自行車和沙發。我們或多或少已經征服了自行車和沙發空間，並且我們正在努力奪取我們不公平的甜甜圈和咖啡份額。

And so the pay now volume we expect to grow, and we're certainly going to make it compelling to use us for pay now transactions, not necessarily just doughnuts and coffee, but given some items between that and the several hundred dollar average that we normally run. Without false modestly here, it's going according to plan. I'm quite happy with how it's shaping up. We have a lot of work to do. There's certainly room to create consumer rewards that we have not yet launched, but that's a big leap towards why would you pick this card from all the other ones you have in your wallet and that's coming. Once we get there, let's see what part of the pay now and pay later spend we'll get.

因此，我們預計即時付費交易量將會增長，我們肯定會吸引人們使用我們的即時付費交易，不一定只是甜甜圈和咖啡，但考慮到我們的平均價格在數百美元之間的一些商品正常運行。這裡沒有虛偽的謙虛，一切都按計劃進行。我對它的發展非常滿意。我們還有很多工作要做。當然，我們還沒有推出消費者獎勵的空間，但這是一個巨大的飛躍，說明為什麼你會從錢包裡的所有其他卡中選擇這張卡，而這即將到來。一旦我們到達那裡，讓我們看看我們將得到現在付款和以後付款支出的哪一部分。

One other thought that's a little bit unrelated. I think it's a little bit dangerous to compare to directly to either debit cards or credit cards when you look at Affirm Card, it is neither. It really is a new product. There's not quite like anything like this on the market right now. And so in terms of, am I surprised? No, but mostly because we had expectations that it will be successful because we've seen the demand. And we'll just try to take as much volume as we can.

另一位認為這有點無關。我認為，當您查看 Affirm Card 時，直接與借記卡或信用卡進行比較有點危險，兩者都不是。這確實是一個新產品。目前市場上還沒有類似的東西。就這一點而言，我感到驚訝嗎？不，但主要是因為我們期望它會成功，因為我們已經看到了需求。我們將盡力獲取盡可能多的數量。

And then just on the margin point, as we outlined in the letter we're actually not starting from 0 with the direct-to-consumer business. We have a virtual card product today. That's one of our most profitable products because it is direct-to-consumer, and we own the whole experience. And that really does give us a lot of advantages. And of the many things that Affirm Card does, one of the easiest to understand is it simply takes that experience and turns it into a form factor consumers are super used to and really expands the amount of times you can use the card, use it offline, you can use it in a lot more use cases, whether or not you're integrated with Affirm. And so that part is really unsurprising. We always knew that, that part of the business was going to be really successful I do think that we want to continue to make it used more. But remember, we are still running at 42% of the transactions being pay now transactions. So we're getting the frequency that we want out of the card even if the GMV isn't there because the AOVs are obviously much lower on doughnuts and coffee than they are on bikes and couches.

然後就邊緣點而言，正如我們在信中概述的那樣，我們實際上並不是從 0 開始開展直接面向消費者的業務。今天我們有一個虛擬卡產品。這是我們最賺錢的產品之一，因為它是直接面向消費者的，而且我們擁有整個體驗。這確實給我們帶來了很多優勢。在 Affirm Card 所做的眾多事情中，最容易理解的事情之一是，它只是將這種體驗轉變為消費者非常習慣的形式因素，並真正增加了您可以使用該卡的次數，離線使用它，您可以在更多用例中使用它，無論您是否與Affirm 集成。所以這部分真的不足為奇。我們一直都知道，這部分業務將​​會非常成功，我確實認為我們希望繼續更多地使用它。但請記住，我們仍然有 42% 的交易是立即付款交易。因此，即使 GMV 不存在，我們也能從卡中獲得我們想要的頻率，因為甜甜圈和咖啡的 AOV 顯然比自行車和沙發上的 AOV 低得多。

And we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. And I'll now turn the call back over to Zane Keller for closing remarks.

我們的問答環節已經結束了。現在我將把電話轉回給贊恩·凱勒 (Zane Keller) 作結束語。

Thank you, everybody, for joining the call today, and we look forward to speaking with you all next quarter.

感謝大家今天加入電話會議，我們期待下個季度與大家交談。

And this concludes today's conference, and you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束，大家可以掛斷電話了。感謝您的參與。