Trinseo PLC (TSE) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Trinseo fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results conference call. We welcome the Trinseo management team, Frank Bozich, President and CEO; David Stasse, Executive Vice President and CFO and Bee van Kessel, Senior Vice President, Corporate Finance and Investor Relations.

女士們、先生們，早安，歡迎參加 Trinseo 2024 年第四季和全年財務業績電話會議。我們歡迎 Trinseo 管理團隊、總裁兼執行長 Frank Bozich； David Stasse，執行副總裁兼財務長；Bee van Kessel，企業財務與投資者關係資深副總裁。

Today's conference call will include brief remarks by the management team followed by a question-and-answer session. The company distributed its press release along with its presentation slides at close of market Wednesday, February 12. These documents are posted on the company's investor relations website and furnished on a Form 8K filed with the Security and Exchange Commission.

今天的電話會議將包括管理團隊的簡短發言以及隨後的問答環節。該公司在 2 月 12 日星期三收盤時發布了新聞稿和簡報幻燈片。這些文件發佈在公司的投資者關係網站上，並以向美國證券交易委員會提交的 8K 表格形式提供。

If anybody should require operator assistance during the call, please press star, then 0 on your telephone. I'll now hand the call over to Bee van Kessel.

如果任何人在通話過程中需要接線員協助，請在電話上按星號，然後按 0。我現在將電話交給 Bee van Kessel。

Thank you and good morning, everyone. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. After our brief remarks, instructions will follow to participate in the question and answer session. Our disclosure rules and cautionary notes on forward-looking statements are noted on slide 2. During this presentation, we may make certain forward-looking statements, including issuing guidance and describing our future expectations.

謝謝大家，早安。此時，所有參與者都處於只聽模式。在我們簡短發言之後，將會指導您如何參與問答環節。我們的揭露規則和前瞻性陳述的警告已在第 2 頁註明。在本次演示中，我們可能會做出某些前瞻性陳述，包括發布指引和描述我們未來的期望。

We must caution you that actual results could differ materially from what is discussed, described, or implied in these statements. Factors that could cause actual results to differ, include but are not limited to the risk factors set forth in item 1A of our annual report on Form 10K or in our other filings made with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

我們必須提醒您，實際結果可能與這些聲明中討論、描述或暗示的內容有重大差異。可能導致實際結果不同的因素包括但不限於我們 10K 表年度報告第 1A 項或我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他文件中列出的風險因素。

The company undertakes no obligation to update or revise its forward-looking statements. Today's presentation includes certain non-GAAP financial measurements. A reconciliation of these measurements to corresponding GAAP measures is provided in our earnings release and in the appendix of our investor presentation.

該公司不承擔更新或修改其前瞻性陳述的義務。今天的報告包括一些非公認會計準則 (GAAP) 財務指標。我們在收益報告和投資者報告的附錄中提供了這些指標與相應的 GAAP 指標的對帳表。

The replay of today's conference call and transcript and transcript will be archived on the company's investor relations website shortly following the conference call. The replay will be available until February 13, 2026. Now I would like to turn the call over to Frank Bozich.

今天的電話會議重播和文字記錄將在電話會議結束後不久存檔在公司的投資者關係網站上。重播將持續到 2026 年 2 月 13 日。現在我想將電話轉給 Frank Bozich。

Thanks Bee and welcome to our year-end 2024 earnings call. Before we get into our financial results, I'd like to highlight some of our outstanding safety achievements as we've had one of the safest summers in the history of the company this past year.

感謝 Bee，歡迎參加我們 2024 年年終財報電話會議。在我們了解財務表現之前，我想強調我們在安全方面取得的一些突出成就，因為過去的一年是公司歷史上最安全的夏天之一。

I'm proud to announce that 19 production and recycling facilities, all of our global R&D teams, and two site service teams received a 000 award, which represents zero recordable injuries, zero spills, and zero process safety events for the entire year. With an injury rate of just 0.3, we continue to operate in the top quartile of companies in the American Chemistry Council and outperform many of our peers.

我很自豪地宣布，19個生產和回收設施、我們所有的全球研發團隊以及兩個現場服務團隊都獲得了000獎，這意味著全年實現了零可記錄傷害、零洩漏和零製程安全事件。憑藉僅為 0.3 的受傷率，我們繼續位居美國化學理事會前四分之一的公司之列，並且表現優於許多同行。

These results are a testament to the priority that we place on safety and everything that we do and are a reflection on the dedication that our people have to creating a safe work environment. Moving on to our operational results, this past year saw a continuation and in some cases a worsening of many of the market challenges that the chemical industry faced in 2023.

這些結果證明了我們對安全以及我們所做的一切的重視，並反映了我們的員工對創造安全工作環境的奉獻精神。談到我們的營運業績，過去的一年，化學工業在 2023 年面臨的許多市場挑戰仍在繼續，在某些情況下甚至有所惡化。

Geopolitical uncertainty, elevated inflation, and relatively high interest rates eroded consumer confidence across the globe, which adversely affected our largest end markets of auto, building and construction, and most significantly, Europe, most significantly in Europe and China.

地緣政治的不確定性、高通膨和相對較高的利率削弱了全球消費者信心，這對我們最大的汽車、建築和施工終端市場產生了不利影響，其中最嚴重的是歐洲，尤其是歐洲和中國。

Despite these macroeconomic challenges, we were able to improve our full year adjusted EBITDA by $50 million. Because of the self-help actions that we've taken over the past couple of years amid these challenging times, our focus has been on executing actions within our control and aligned to our transformation strategy as we wait for the macroeconomic environment to inevitably recover.

儘管面臨這些宏觀經濟挑戰，我們仍成功將全年調整後 EBITDA 提高 5,000 萬美元。由於我們在過去幾年的困難時期採取了自救行動，我們的重點一直是執行我們能控制的行動，並與我們的轉型策略保持一致，等待宏觀經濟環境不可避免地復甦。

These included exiting our unprofitable and energy intensive staggering inversion polycarbonate production operations, consolidating several of our PMMA sheet operations and right sizing the company and its support functions based on the new operating footprint.

這些舉措包括退出無利可圖且能源密集型的交錯反轉聚碳酸酯生產業務、合併我們的幾項 PMMA 板材業務，並根據新的營運足跡合理調整公司及其支援職能的規模。

We also implemented new supply chain systems and processes that enabled a greater than 20% reduction in days of inventory to a level that can be sustained through the cycle. Finally, we took actions to extend our near-term debt maturity to 2028 and greatly improved our liquidity. All of these actions have resulted in more efficient and focused company.

我們也實施了新的供應鏈系統和流程，使庫存天數減少20%以上，並達到可以在整個週期中維持的水準。最後，我們採取行動將近期債務到期日延長至2028年，並大幅提高了我們的流動性。所有這些舉措使得公司變得更有效率和專注。

Compared to the first half of 2022 when we began these actions, our energy intensity has decreased by approximately 45%. Our maintenance CapEx has decreased by more than 35%. And due to work process improvements and footprint reductions, we have reduced our total headcount by approximately 20%. These actions have allowed us to continue to make progress on our strategic initiatives and circular technologies.

與我們開始採取這些行動的2022年上半年相比，我們的能源強度下降了約45%。我們的維護資本支出減少了35%以上。並且由於工作流程的改進和占地面積的減少，我們的員工總數減少了約 20%。這些行動使我們在策略性舉措和循環技術方面不斷取得進展。

We continue to grow our recycled content containing product offerings, with sales increasing 47% versus prior year and representing now 4% of the total company variable margin in 2024. Sales volumes were higher to higher margin case applications continued to make up an increasing percentage of volumes in our latex binder segment, accounting for 11% of our total segment sales volumes and 18% of our total segment variable margin in 2024.

我們持續增加含有再生材料的產品供應，銷售額較上年成長 47%，佔 2024 年公司總變動利潤的 4%。由於銷售量較高且利潤率較高，因此應用在我們的乳膠黏合劑分部的銷售量中所佔的比例持續增加，到 2024 年將占我們分部總銷售量的 11% 和分部總變動利潤的 18%。

And in our engineered material segment, PMMA resins sales and margins continue to show resilience as volumes increase 3% year over year, despite a very weak and market demand environment. We have also made significant advancements in our circular technologies.

在我們的工程材料領域，儘管市場需求環境非常疲軟，但 PMMA 樹脂的銷售和利潤率繼續表現出彈性，銷量較去年同期成長 3%。我們的循環技術也取得了重大進展。

These include commissioning our polycarbonate dissolution pilot facility and opening our ABS dissolution pilot plant and our PMMA depolymerization demo facility in 2024. We anticipate scaling up the PC and PMMA technologies at a ROE, Italy site and the PC dissolution technology at our Zhigang China site to support the growing demand from our [auto].

其中包括在 2024 年調試我們的聚碳酸酯溶解試驗設施並開設我們的 ABS 溶解試驗工廠和我們的 PMMA 解聚演示設施。我們預計將擴大義大利 ROE 工廠的 PC 和 PMMA 技術以及中國志剛工廠的 PC 溶解技術，以滿足我們日益增長的需求[汽車]。

Next, I want to spend a few moments discussing a recently announced agreement with Deepak Nitrite Limited. In November we agreed to supply a polycarbonate license as well as all proprietary virgin polycarbonate production equipment from our Stad Germany facility to Deepak for a combined total of $52 million.

接下來，我想花一點時間討論最近宣布的與 Deepak Nitrite Limited 達成的協議。11 月份，我們同意向 Deepak 提供聚碳酸酯許可證以及我們位於德國 Stad 的工廠的所有專有原始聚碳酸酯生產設備，總額為 5,200 萬美元。

While the economics of producing virgin polycarbonate at our Strad facility have become unprofitable and led to our decision to exit that site. Our polycarbonate technology remains highly valued, and the assets can still be utilized. We view this agreement as mutually beneficial to both companies and see this as the initial steps of a strategic and collaborative partnership with Deepak.

而在我們的斯特拉德工廠生產原生聚碳酸酯的經濟效益已經變得無利可圖，導致我們決定退出工廠。我們的聚碳酸酯技術仍然具有很高的價值，而且資產仍然可利用。我們認為該協議對兩家公司都有利，並將其視為與 Deepak 建立策略合作夥伴關係的初步舉措。

We also see India as a significant growth market with Trinseo currently has minimal exposure. We believe in a base case scenario of at least 7% compound annual demand growth through the end of the decade in our target and markets.

我們也認為印度是重要的成長市場，而盛禧奧目前的關注度極低。我們相信，到本世紀末，我們的目標市場年複合需求成長率至少為 7%。

Before I hand the call over to David, I'd like to make a few comments regarding our fourth quarter results. Poor business results were in line with our expectations at seasonally lower volumes and extended year-end shutdowns led to sequentially lower profitability.

在把電話交給大衛之前，我想對我們的第四季業績發表一些評論。由於季節性產量較低以及年底停產時間延長導致獲利能力持續下降，糟糕的經營業績符合我們的預期。

Falling raw material prices resulted in significant negative timing impacts in our polymer solution segment and at Americas Styrenics. While this led to lower adjusted EBITDA than originally anticipated, the lower raw material prices led to lower working capital balances, which contributed to the highest quarter of free cash flow generation in over two years. Now I'd like to turn the call over to David.

原料價格下跌對我們的聚合物溶液部門和美洲苯乙烯部門產生了重大的負面影響。雖然這導致調整後的 EBITDA 低於最初的預期，但原物料價格下降導致營運資本餘額下降，這促成了兩年來自由現金流產生的最高季度。現在我想把電話轉給大衛。

Thanks Frank. Before I get into fourth quarter results, I'd like to spend a few minutes discussing our new reporting segments. At the end of the third quarter, we announced restructuring measures that included combining the management of our engineering materials, plastic solutions, and polystyrene businesses.

謝謝弗蘭克。在介紹第四季業績之前，我想花幾分鐘討論我們的新報告部門。第三季末，我們宣布了重組措施，包括合併工程材料、塑膠解決方案和聚苯乙烯業務的管理。

As a result, we made two substantive changes to our reportable segments to be more representative of this new structure and how we intend to operate the businesses going forward. First, the automotive compounding business that was previously part of Plastic Solutions has been moved into engineering materials.

因此，我們對報告分部做出了兩項實質更改，以便更好地體現此新結構以及我們未來打算如何經營業務。首先，先前隸屬於塑膠解決方案部門的汽車複合材料業務已轉移至工程材料領域。

This was a natural move since we already have a smaller compounding business and significant automotive exposure within engineer materials. The second change is that we are combining polystyrene with the two remaining businesses in plastic solutions.

這是一個自然的舉措，因為我們已經擁有較小的複合材料業務，並且在工程材料領域擁有相當大的汽車業務。第二個變化是，我們將聚苯乙烯業務與剩下的兩項塑膠解決方案業務結合。

ABS and [SAN] and they're renaming the segment polymer Solutions. I also want to highlight that in January we closed on a transaction that increased our available liquidity by approximately $150 million and extended the maturity date of the $115 million of debt that was due in 2025 to 2028.

ABS 和[SAN] 正在將該部分重新命名為聚合物解決方案。我還想強調的是，1 月我們完成了一項交易，使我們的可用流動資金增加了約 1.5 億美元，並將 2025 年到期的 1.15 億美元債務的到期日延長至 2028 年。

For this transaction, we ended 2024 with almost $500 million of available liquidity and no maturities until 2028. Moving on to financial results, fourth quarter adjusted $26 million with $6 million higher than the prior year and included a $9 million unfavorable net timing impact primarily in plastic solutions as tying prices fell throughout the quarter.

對於這筆交易，我們在 2024 年底擁有近 5 億美元的可用流動資金，直到 2028 年才到期。談到財務業績，第四季度調整後利潤為 2600 萬美元，比上年高出 600 萬美元，其中包括 900 萬美元的不利淨時序影響，主要是由於整個季度捆綁價格下跌，導致塑料解決方案受到影響。

Fourth quarter results were also negatively impacted by an additional $15 million of unfavorable net timing at Americas Styrenics due to falling raw material costs. Absent these headwinds, core business results were in line with expectation and improved versus prior year for each of our operating segments.

由於原物料成本下降，美洲苯乙烯公司第四季的業績還受到額外 1,500 萬美元的不利淨時機的負面影響。如果沒有這些不利因素，核心業務績效符合預期，且每個營運部門的績效均比前一年有所改善。

Engineering materials saw the highest year for year improvement due to moderating input costs, improved PMMA pricing, and a 61% increase in volume sold into consumer electronics applications. Cash provided by operations during the quarter was $85 million which resulted in free cash flow of $64 million.

由於投入成本降低、PMMA 定價提高以及消費性電子應用銷售量成長 61%，工程材料的年增率最為顯著。本季經營活動提供的現金為 8,500 萬美元，從而產生了 6,400 萬美元的自由現金流。

Now I'll turn the call back over to Frank.

現在我將把電話轉回給弗蘭克。

Thanks, Dav. Looking ahead to 2025, we do not currently anticipate meaningful demand recovery in our major markets. Geopolitics have negatively impacted our business over the past three years, and we look forward to the resolution of some of the worldwide conflicts that have disrupted global trade flows and decreased European competitiveness.

謝謝，戴夫。展望 2025 年，我們目前預期主要市場的需求不會顯著復甦。過去三年來，地緣政治對我們的業務產生了負面影響，我們期待解決一些擾亂全球貿易流動和降低歐洲競爭力的全球衝突。

With this in mind, I'd like to give a brief update on the sale process of our joint venture Americas Styrenics. We, along with our partner, remain committed to [selling Americas Styrenics] with a focus on maximizing value. To this end, we expect an improved valuation environment later this year, which would result in a signing later than originally anticipated.

考慮到這一點，我想簡要介紹一下我們的合資企業Americas Styrenics的出售過程。我們和我們的合作夥伴將繼續致力於[銷售美洲苯乙烯]，重點是實現價值最大化。為此，我們預計今年稍後估值環境將會改善，這將導致簽約時間比最初預期的要晚。

We remain very confident that the sale process will be successful, and we will update the market once we have more clarity on timing. We expect the first quarter of 2025 to be sequentially better than Q4 following the pronounced seasonality and negative timing impacts that we experienced at year end.

我們仍然非常有信心銷售過程將會成功，一旦我們對時間安排有了更明確的認識，我們就會向市場更新資訊。我們預計，由於年底經歷的明顯季節性和負面時間影響，2025 年第一季的表現將比第四季更好。

We are seeing seasonally higher volumes to begin Q1 but still expect first quarter volumes to be lower year over year due to continued weakness in automotive in building and construction and markets and in paper applications in Asia.

我們看到第一季初的銷售量呈現季節性增長，但由於亞洲建築和建築市場中的汽車市場和紙張應用市場持續疲軟，預計第一季的銷售仍將同比下降。

As a result, we expect Q1 adjusted EBITDA of $60 million to $80 million which includes a one-time $26 million contribution from the polycarbonate Technology license agreement to Deepak. I believe the actions we've taken over the past two years have positioned us well for an eventual market and recovery. And the refinancing transaction which we recently closed in January, give us ample runway to continue pursuing our strategy.

因此，我們預計第一季調整後的 EBITDA 為 6,000 萬至 8,000 萬美元，其中包括聚碳酸酯技術許可協議向 Deepak 提供的 2,600 萬美元一次性貢獻。我相信我們過去兩年採取的行動為我們最終的市場和復甦做好了準備。我們最近在一月份完成的再融資交易為我們繼續推動我們的策略提供了充足的空間。

And now we're happy to take your questions.

現在我們很樂意回答您的問題。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。（操作員指令）

Your first question comes from the line of Frank Mish of Fermium Research. Your line is open.

您的第一個問題來自 Fermium Research 的 Frank Mish。您的線路已開通。

Hey, good morning, folks. I want to follow up on slide 14 in terms of the cash spend that you're expecting for 2025, standing at $390 million. Frank, I believe, or perhaps it was David last quarter was mentioning a number in the low 300s in terms of in terms of the spending. I'm just curious as to where you're seeing the net cash expenditures pick up from what it was a few months ago.

嘿，大家早安。我想跟進第 14 張投影片中您預計的 2025 年現金支出，即 3.9 億美元。我相信，弗蘭克，或者可能是戴維，上個季度提到的支出數字在 300 出頭。我只是好奇，您認為淨現金支出與幾個月前相比有何成長。

Good morning, Frank. The only changes the only changes based on the last time we talked about this figure, which is admittedly higher than it was last year, is in working capital. I mean, predicting working capital, the $40 million outflow of working capital is a function of really two things, volume over the course of the year, which, as Frank said.

早安，弗蘭克。與上次我們討論的這個數字相比，唯一的變化是營運資本，這個數字確實比去年高。我的意思是，預測營運資本，4000 萬美元的營運資本流出實際上取決於兩個因素，即全年的數量，正如弗蘭克所說的那樣。

We're not baking into our forecast anything of significance there, but also raw material prices, so our working capital balances is, at the end the working capital inflow outflow is really a function of our forecast of raw material prices at the end of the year, which admittedly frank standing here on February 13, is a little hard to predict.

我們的預測中沒有考慮任何重要的因素，但也有原材料價格，所以我們的營運資本餘額，最終的營運資本流入流出實際上取決於我們對年底原材料價格的預測，坦率地說，在 2 月 13 日站在這裡，這有點難以預測。

That that line item particularly is quite likely to change going forward. Cash taxes a little bit higher than what they were last year. Also, frank last year I think was more like $20 million, and that's just a function of higher profitability. So that's really those are the only changes.

該項目未來很可能會發生變化。現金稅比去年略高。另外，我認為去年的弗蘭克收入更像是 2000 萬美元，這只是更高盈利能力的結果。所以實際上這些是唯一的改變。

Okay, all right, that's I totally understand. And David, when you're talking about the negative timing impacts in Q4 restraining profitability or restraining the EBITDA that was reported, due to lower Styrenic monomer, of course that that cuts two ways because you guys are now merchant.

好的，好吧，我完全明白。戴維，當您談到第四季度的負面時間影響抑制了盈利能力或抑制了報告的 EBITDA（由於苯乙烯單體較低）時，當然這是雙向的，因為您現在是商人。

Styrenic monomer purchasers, so I'm curious as to how we should think about the benefits that I guess you're seeing in one cue from the lower Styrenic pricing. How would you factor that into the overall profitability?

苯乙烯單體的購買者，所以我很好奇我們應該如何看待我猜你會從較低的苯乙烯價格中看到的好處。您如何將其納入整體獲利能力之中？

Yeah, Frank, a lot of you can imagine that a lot of our pricing on our Styrenic containing products are index on the Styrenic index price and so it's a generally a pass through.

是的，弗蘭克，很多人可以想像，我們的許多含苯乙烯產品的定價都是基於苯乙烯指數價格的，因此它通常是一種傳遞方式。

Okay, got it understood. And then I assume in terms of the delay on the AmSty sale from the first half of this year to the second half of this year, obviously you guys are operating hand in glove with CPM, correct?

好的，明白了。然後我假設，就 AmSty 銷售從今年上半年推遲到下半年而言，顯然你們是與 CPM 狼狽為姦，對嗎？

Yeah, we're in close, obviously we're in close cooperation with our joint venture partner and again as I said, we anticipate, in improved result for me. I'm in a better valuation environment later this year.

是的，我們與合資夥伴保持著密切的合作，正如我所說，我們期待取得更好的業績。今年晚些時候我將面臨更好的估值環境。

Got you. Thanks so much.

明白了。非常感謝。

Your next question comes from a line of Matthew Blair of Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Company. Your line is open.

您的下一個問題來自 Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Company 的 Matthew Blair。您的線路已開通。

Thank you and good morning. Hopefully you can hear me okay. I have two questions on the Q1 guidance. First, how much of an impact, if any is embedded from rising European natural gas prices in the Q1 guide, and could you provide an update on any sort of hedges you might have for 2025? And then two, is there any assumption on net timing benefits in that Q1 guide? Thank you.

謝謝你，早安。希望您能聽到我的話。我對第一季的指引有兩個疑問。首先，歐洲天然氣價格上漲對第一季指南的影響有多大（如果有的話），您能否提供有關 2025 年可能採取的任何對沖措施的最新資訊？然後第二，Q1 指引中是否對淨時序效益有任何假設？謝謝。

So yeah, that's a great question. So, there will be in a timing, a pricing lag due to natural gas price increases and those inputs into mainly EM that are based on natural gas prices. So, we would expect that the current expectation is that the quarterly pricing that we provided at the end of last year for Q1 to our customers, we wouldn't fully recover the input and cost increase from the natural gas prices and that's mainly an EM related issue.

是的，這是一個很好的問題。因此，由於天然氣價格上漲以及主要基於天然氣價格的新興市場的投入，在時間上會出現定價滯後。因此，我們預計目前的預期是，我們在去年年底向客戶提供的第一季季度定價無法完全收回天然氣價格帶來的投入和成本增加，這主要是與 EM 相關的問題。

Matthew, as it relates to hedging, look, we've obviously been monitoring this very closely. We have been Putting in hedges generally for the short term in the first quarter. Obviously, I'm sure you've seen the news there's a lot of positive kind of speculation coming out of, some resolution to the Ukraine situation.

馬修，就其與對沖有關而言，看，我們顯然一直在密切關注這一點。我們在第一季普遍進行短期避險。顯然，我相信你已經看到了新聞，有很多積極的猜測，烏克蘭局勢將得到一些解決。

And a follow on to that would be a potential reopening of supply from Russia to Europe with natural gas, which obviously I think would have a very deflationary effect on natural gas prices in Europe. So we do have some hedges in place for the first quarter of this year. It's it's less than 50%.

而隨後的結果是俄羅斯可能會重新向歐洲供應天然氣，我認為這顯然會對歐洲的天然氣價格產生通貨緊縮的影響。因此，我們確實針對今年第一季採取了一些對沖措施。它低於50％。

And obviously the near term prices are really impacted more by the weather than anything else, but also, looking longer term we're watching the Ukraine situation closely and you know a little bit reticent probably right now given that to put on any kind of long term hedges of natural gas for Europe.

顯然，短期價格受天氣的影響比其他任何因素都要大，但從長遠來看，我們正在密切關注烏克蘭局勢，而且現在可能有點不願意為歐洲的天然氣進行任何形式的長期對沖。

I do also just Matthew just want to point out, I mean, due to, we've exited our energy intensive businesses in Europe, to suit the two Styrene plants as well as polycarbonates. So, the only the only real energy intensive operation that we still have is MMA production in Italy. So, our energy intensity has gone down considerably.

我也只是馬修想指出，我的意思是，由於我們已經退出歐洲的能源密集型業務，以適應兩家苯乙烯工廠以及聚碳酸酯。因此，我們唯一真正能源密集型的業務是義大利的 MMA 生產。因此，我們的能源強度已大幅下降。

Since the last time we went through, it's about half of what it used to be. So, the last time we went through this, the last time we had an energy crisis in Europe, our exposure was 2x of what it is today.

自從我們上次經過以來，它的面積大約只有以前的一半。因此，上次我們經歷這種情況時，上次歐洲發生能源危機時，我們的風險敞口是今天的兩倍。

That's helpful. Thank you. And my follow up, it seems like one of the bright spots in the quarter was in engineering materials. You mentioned the 61% increase in volumes into consumer electronics. Do you have any more details here? Was this the result of like a new product launch and maybe a one-time benefit, or do you think this is something more sustainable? Thank you.

這很有幫助。謝謝。我的後續觀察是，本季的亮點之一似乎是工程材料。您提到消費性電子產品的銷售量成長了 61%。您還有更多詳細資訊嗎？這是新產品發布或一次性收益的結果嗎？謝謝。

Yeah, so, maybe just a I think one of the big things year over year was that you had a very low base in 2023 by comparison. So, 2023 was a low year in consumer electronics for many reasons and consumer demand. So, one you're starting at a low point, but I'm really excited about the work that the team has done during the course of late 2023 and into 2024 to diversify our customer base.

是的，所以，也許我認為與去年相比，最大的變化之一是 2023 年的基數非常低。因此，由於多種原因和消費者需求，2023 年是消費性電子產品低迷的一年。因此，雖然您是從低谷開始的，但我對團隊在 2023 年末至 2024 年期間為實現客戶群多元化所做的工作感到非常興奮。

So, I would generally say that this has been a really strong growth part of our business and one of the biggest areas for recycled containing products where we're selling into the consumer electronics area, it was a fairly concentrated customer base, and these would be the larger brand names in consumer electronics, and we've done a very good job diversifying our sales into new customers.

因此，我總體上會說這是我們業務中真正強勁的成長部分，也是我們在消費電子領域銷售的回收產品最大的領域之一，這是一個相當集中的客戶群，這些都是消費電子領域的較大品牌，我們在將銷售多元化到新客戶方面做得非常好。

Last year and these are really bespoke products. It's not you know we're custom formulating a product with up to 60% to 70% recycled content for specific applications and so for that reason we think these are really resilient sales and again the two big drivers are the year over year comparison, as well as diversification of our customer base.

去年，這些都是真正客製化的產品。你知道，我們正在為特定應用量身定制含有高達 60% 至 70% 再生材料的產品，因此，我們認為這些產品的銷售確實具有彈性，而且，兩個主要驅動因素是同比對比，以及客戶群的多樣化。

Great, thank you.

太好了，謝謝。

Your next question comes from a line of Hassan Ahmed of Alembic Global Advisors. Your line is open.

您的下一個問題來自 Alembic Global Advisors 的 Hassan Ahmed。您的線路已開通。

Morning, Frank. Question around guidance, you guys are guiding to, call it midpoint of guidance $70 million for Q1, and I understand, there are some moving costs associated with that, but if I annualize that, that's, only $280 million. I mean, I know, there, all these sort of macro uncertainties and the like, but how should we be thinking about 2025?

早安，弗蘭克。關於指導的問題，你們的指導是，稱之為第一季 7000 萬美元的指導中點，我明白，這涉及到一些搬遷成本，但如果我將其年化，那就只有 2.8 億美元。我的意思是，我知道，存在所有這些宏觀不確定性之類的，但是我們應該如何看待 2025 年？

Yeah, look, I mean great question, and for the reasons that you stated, we're not, we're reluctant to try and predict the full year guide at this point, but look, we're very confident in continued positive earnings development in 2025, and the drivers are, give you the buckets.

是的，看，我的意思是這個問題問得很好，出於您陳述的原因，我們不願意，我們目前不願意嘗試預測全年指南，但看，我們對 2025 年繼續保持積極的盈利發展非常有信心，而驅動因素是，給您提供依據。

So, what we announced with Deepak, so $26 million of EBITDA contribution from the licensing agreement, the SG&A reductions that we announced last year in restructuring will give a full year benefit of $25 million. PC asset closure, and then the subsequent sourcing agreements with that as well as the new business awards that we've received in qualifying new customers are similar in magnitude to those previous two areas.

因此，我們與 Deepak 共同宣布，許可協議帶來的 2,600 萬美元 EBITDA 貢獻，以及去年在重組中宣布的銷售、一般及行政費用削減將帶來 2,500 萬美元的全年收益。個人電腦資產結算，以及隨後的採購協議以及我們在獲得新客戶方面獲得的新業務獎勵在規模上與前兩個領域相似。

And then lastly, I would point out that we would expect a much more normalized earnings contribution or EBITDA contribution from AmSty this year and you know. You could do the math, but over the past 4 years, even that contribution for Trinseo from our participation in AmSty was $68 million and we would expect a contribution closer to that than the result we had last year.

最後，我想指出的是，我們預計今年 AmSty 的獲利貢獻或 EBITDA 貢獻將更加正常。你可以算一下，但在過去 4 年裡，我們參與 AmSty 為 Trinseo 做出的貢獻就高達 6800 萬美元，我們預計今年的貢獻會比去年更接近這個數字。

So, you know those are the big buckets of contribution excluding market, the market, whatever happens in the market, and so I would. That's how I would think about it once you land your market assumptions on the underlying demand.

所以，您知道，這些都是不包括市場、市場以及市場上發生的任何事情的巨大貢獻，所以我會這樣做。一旦你將市場假設建立在潛在需求的基礎上，我就會這樣想。

Very helpful, Frank, and as a follow up. We've seen a nice sort of rebound in the engineered materials sort of segment EBITDA margin wise, I mean last quarter it was 12% EBITDA margins. Now it's 10%, which obviously year on year, is a healthy sort of expansion. I mean, how are you now with all the moving parts and the changes we've seen in the macro thinking about normalized earnings and normalized EBITDA margins in that segment?

非常有幫助，弗蘭克，並且作為後續行動。我們看到工程材料領域的 EBITDA 利潤率出現了良好的反彈，上個季度的 EBITDA 利潤率為 12%。現在這一數字是 10%，這顯然比去年同期增長了一個檔次，是一種健康的擴張。我的意思是，考慮到我們在宏觀層面看到的所有變動和變化，您現在對該領域的正常化收益和正常化 EBITDA 利潤率有何看法？

Yeah, I mean, Hassan, we've been, it's impossible for it's a new world, isn't it? (multiple speakers)

是的，我的意思是，哈桑，我們已經去過了，這是不可能的，因為這是一個新的世界，不是嗎？（多位發言者）

I couldn't tell you what normal is, so what I can tell you is we're confident in our ability to show positive earnings momentum and the EM. I think we have a great portfolio. I mean just as we talked about, look at in last year's environment where we saw, I would say generally in many of our end markets some weakening in demand we were able to grow.

我無法告訴你什麼是正常的，所以我可以告訴你的是，我們有信心我們有能力展現積極的獲利動能和新興市場。我認為我們擁有出色的產品組合。我的意思是，正如我們所談論的，回顧去年的環境，我想說總體而言，在我們的許多終端市場中，需求有所減弱，但我們能夠實現成長。

PMMA resin 3% volume, fantastic story in the growth that we've seen in our engineered compounds that go into consumer electronics it's over 60% growth. And then the other thing that I would point to is these same customers are demanding.

PMMA 樹脂的產量為 3%，我們看到用於消費性電子產品的工程化合物的成長非常出色，成長率超過 60%。我想指出的另一件事是這些客戶有相同的要求。

There's significant pull from the market for recycled and circular solutions. And we believe we have a unique and leadership position in recycling technology for ABS, PC, and PMMA that go into those end segments. And so you know those investments that we will continue to drive will give us continued momentum there. So I feel good about the work the team has done in the EM and you know I think there's more to come.

市場對回收和循環解決方案的需求龐大。我們相信，我們在 ABS、PC 和 PMMA 等終端領域的回收技術方面擁有獨特的領導地位。所以你知道，我們將繼續推動的那些投資將為我們帶來持續的動力。因此，我對團隊在 EM 中所做的工作感到滿意，我認為未來還會有更多工作要做。

Very helpful. Thanks so much, Frank.

非常有幫助。非常感謝，弗蘭克。

Your next question comes from a line of Laurence Alexander of Jefferies. Your line is open.

您的下一個問題來自傑富瑞（Jefferies）的勞倫斯·亞歷山大（Laurence Alexander）。您的線路已開通。

So good morning. three questions. Just one is on the circularity and recycling. Can you just give a sense for what your total sort of size of your platform is in those products and how the margins compare with the balance of your business? And then can you touch on what you think the CapEx needs might be down the road, say over four or five years, if the recycling platforms are going to start to scale up.

早安.三個問題。其中只有一個是關於循環性和再利用。您能否介紹一下這些產品的平台整體規模以及利潤率與業務餘額相比如何？然後，您能否談談如果回收平台開始擴大規模，那麼您認為未來四到五年內資本支出需求可能會是什麼？

So, the volume of the recycled containing products for all of 2024. And I'm looking at being Dave to keep me, I think it was 4% for the full year, but it was growing as the year progressed, so I think that in Q4 it actually got to 5% of our total volume.

因此，2024 年全年的回收產品量都是如此。我希望戴夫能留住我，我認為全年的銷售額是 4%，但隨著時間的推移，銷售額還在不斷增長，所以我認為第四季度的銷售額實際上占到了我們總銷售額的 5%。

The sales of recycled containing products grew as I said, over 40% last year. So we're seeing relative to our ability to supply and source the material, we see relatively unlimited demand from our end customers. So the going to the CapEx, this, it's a really interesting and dynamic question on this, but these are, these investments are not significant. They're either high single digit or low double digit million modules.

正如我所說，去年含再生產品的銷售額成長了 40% 以上。因此，我們看到相對於我們的供應和採購材料的能力，來自最終客戶的需求相對無限。因此，談到資本支出，這是一個非常有趣且動態的問題，但這些投資並不重要。它們要不是高個位數的百萬模組，就是低兩位數的百萬模組。

So, these are modular investments that we would make where we could. Install those at our various downstream plants and the investments, depending, again, we're, its early days, but it's high single digit to low double digit million per module, okay.

所以，這些都是我們在力所能及的情況下進行的模組化投資。將它們安裝在我們各個下游工廠，並取決於投資，再次強調，我們還處於早期階段，但每個模組的成本在幾百萬到幾百萬之間，好的。

Oh, and then you asked about margin premium. We we're seeing in each of the areas that a sustainable offering or a circular offering in PC, ABS and PMMA, as well as polystyrene in the multiple $100. Range, or significant premiums over Virgin, the Virgin premiums. Our virgin markets.

哦，然後您問到了保證金溢價。我們看到，在每一個領域，PC、ABS、PMMA 以及聚苯乙烯的可持續供應或循環供應都達到了百美元的等級。範圍，或比維珍 (Virgin) 更高的保費，即維珍保費。我們的處女市場。

And so, is it fair to say that the payback on any of the modular investments will probably be like, 1.5, 2 years?

那麼，是否可以說，任何模組化投資的回報期都大概是 1.5 到 2 年呢？

Yeah, it's premature for you know we're, it's premature for us to for me to lean into that one and then I'll give you a real view on that, but we're seeing very positive preliminarily we see that these would be very positive IRRs on these types of investments, and you know. But again, it's early stages and we're in the process of preliminary engineering and we'll know more in the by the second half of the year.

是的，現在就下結論還為時過早，然後我會給你一個真正的看法，但我們初步看到的情況非常積極，我們看到這些類型的投資的內部收益率非常積極，你知道。但再說一次，現在還處於早期階段，我們正處於初步工程階段，到今年下半年我們就會知道更多資訊。

And then just lastly, could you just calibrate what you're hearing from your customers about further destocking or working capital efficiency initiatives and how much of that is baked into your outlook in terms of being sort of a fairly steady demand environment.

最後，您能否調整一下您從客戶那裡聽到的關於進一步去庫存或營運資本效率舉措的意見，以及其中有多少內容反映在您對相當穩定的需求環境的展望中？

And so, I would generally say that we think that our value chains have gotten pretty tight. We think that we've done a great job along in partnership with our customers to take any slack out of the supply chains. And we haven't heard of any significant additional initiatives where people would be looking to take inventory levels down.

所以，我總體上認為我們的價值鏈已經變得相當緊密。我們認為，我們與客戶合作完成了一項出色的工作，消除了供應鏈中的任何鬆弛。我們還沒有聽說有人試圖採取任何重大的額外措施來降低庫存水準。

We haven't seen that, and I guess maybe this is the one data point that we are looking at from a longer term, or midterm demand standpoint is what is, let's talk about building and construction and automotive. Since 2008, there's been a deficit in North America and Europe in terms of new construction versus household formation.

我們還沒有看到這一點，我想也許這是我們從長期或中期需求角度看待的一個數據點，讓我們來談談建築和汽車。自2008年以來，北美和歐洲的新建住房數量相對於家庭住房數量一直存在不足。

And so there's massive pent up demand there. We think the value chains have largely, they've become balanced. And then in automotive, while demand is weaker, it's a consumer confidence issue. It's not an inventory. We don't see it as an inventory issue and in the medium term we see the age of it. We watch the age of the car park.

因此那裡存在著大量被壓抑的需求。我們認為價值鏈基本上已經變得平衡。在汽車領域，雖然需求較弱，但這是一個消費者信心問題。這不是庫存。我們不認為這是一個庫存問題，從中期來看，我們認為這是一個長期問題。我們觀察了停車場的使用年限。

And you know the data that we just looked at this morning would tell us that in Europe, the car park, the auto fleet is over 12 years old, which is historical, historically highest level of age of the car parking in North America, it's over 12 years, which is one of the oldest fleets that I remember in my career, so. Yeah, I'm not, we don't see a big drive to destock.

你知道，我們今天早上看到的數據告訴我們，在歐洲，停車場的汽車車隊都已經超過 12 年了，這是歷史上北美停車場使用年限最高的，超過 12 年了，這是我職業生涯中記得的最古老的車隊之一。是的，我沒有看到大幅去庫存的動力。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Your next question comes from a line of Roger Spitz of Bank of America. Your line is open.

您的下一個問題來自美國銀行的羅傑‧斯皮茨 (Roger Spitz)。您的線路已開通。

Thank you very much. First, can you speak about the impact of tariffs, for instance, how much do you sell to Canada, Mexico, and or China from directly from the USA?

非常感謝。首先，您能談談關稅的影響嗎？

Yeah, so on tariffs, we're thinking about tariffs in three dimensions. Okay, so dimension number one is okay, what are we importing what are our purchases from countries that could be subject to import tariffs and We believe that impact will be negligible to us because the purchases are relatively small and the commodities that we're buying from those countries are in oversupply and so we have the ability to switch to avoid the tariff switch our suppliers.

是的，關於關稅，我們從三個維度考慮關稅。好的，那麼第一個維度是，我們進口什麼，從哪些可能受到進口關稅影響的國家購買什麼，我們認為這種影響對我們來說可以忽略不計，因為購買量相對較小，而且我們從這些國家購買的商品供過於求，所以我們有能力轉換以避免關稅轉換我們的供應商。

The second dimension is where do we sell our products from the US production into countries where there could be retaliatory. Tariffs and I would just say in general, most of the by far most of the US production is consumed in the US.

第二個維度是我們將美國生產的產品銷往哪些可能遭到報復的國家。關稅，我只想說，整體而言，美國絕大多數生產的產品都在美國消費。

Our exports from the US to Canada and Mexico represent low single digit percentages of our overall. Of our overall sales and 80% of those are in the auto value chain and we highly specified into the tiers, so we don't necessarily believe that we will see an impact in terms of demand.

我們從美國到加拿大和墨西哥的出口占我們整體出口的低個位數百分比。在我們的整體銷售中，80% 是在汽車價值鏈中，而且我們高度指定到各個層級，因此我們不一定相信會在需求方面看到影響。

Sitting here today if tariffs were imposed on those sales, and then the third bucket or the third dimension which is unknowable at this point is what would be the end market demand impact on imposition of significant tariffs, and you know there's a lot of uncertainty and we just don't know at this juncture.

今天我們坐在這裡，如果對這些銷售徵收關稅，那麼目前還無法知道的第三個方面或第三個維度就是，徵收重大關稅將對最終市場需求產生什麼影響，你知道存在很多不確定性，我們現在還不知道。

Thank you for that. And my other question, I'm looking at slide 12 of the deck, for instance, the AR securitization, you have $50 million left over of availability, excuse me. Does that mean that I guess they'll come out with a cu, but are you drawing $100 million under the AR securitization or is there barring based limitations here?

謝謝你。我的另一個問題是，我正在看幻燈片的第 12 張，例如，AR 證券化，您還剩餘 5000 萬美元可用資金，對不起。這是否意味著，我猜他們會推出一張票據，但您是否會在 AR 證券化下提取 1 億美元，或者這裡是否存在基於禁止的限制？

Yeah, hi, Roger. Good morning, it's Steve. So, there's a bar there's a borrowing base so that, the amount we have to borrow against obviously the function of the receivables balance in the legal entities that participate in the program.

是的，你好，羅傑。早安，我是史蒂夫。因此，有一個限制，有一個借款基礎，以便我們必須借入的金額顯然取決於參與該計劃的法人實體的應收帳款餘額。

The receivables balance was quite low, understandably at the end of Q4, just because of the season, kind of seasonal, seasonality of sales in the quarter. So our borrowing, we were able to so it's a $150 million facility.

第四季末的應收帳款餘額相當低，這是可以理解的，只是因為季節的原因，本季的銷售具有季節性。所以我們的借款額度是 1.5 億美元。

Almost always going back in time, we've had full availability based on the borrowing base. It happened to be particularly low at the end of the year because of lower seasonal volumes, but also lower prices. I talked about earlier, the big drop in tying prices.

幾乎總是回顧過去，我們根據借款基礎擁有充分的可用性。由於季節性銷售量較低，而且價格也較低，所以年底的銷售量特別低。我之前談到了捆綁價格的大幅下降。

So, we have $125 million at the end of the quarter able to be borrowed. And there was a $75 million drawn. I would expect that borrowing that borrowing base will be higher in Q1.

因此，我們在本季末有 1.25 億美元可供借入。並且已經提取了7500萬美元。我預計第一季的借款基數將會更高。

Got it, perfect, thank you very much.

明白了，非常好，非常感謝。

And your last question comes from a line of Alex Kelsey of Wells Fargo. Your line is open.

您的最後一個問題來自富國銀行的 Alex Kelsey。您的線路已開通。

Oh, hey guys, thanks for taking the question. A couple of follow ups from, I think what's been asked already with regard to the EM segment just now that there's automotive, some automotive components in there as well, the$27 million reported in Q4, like how much of that was, pure EM versus auto of the $27 million?

哦，嘿夥計們，感謝你們回答這個問題。接下來是幾個問題，我想剛才已經問到了關於 EM 領域的問題，其中有汽車，也有一些汽車零件，第四季度報告的 2700 萬美元，其中有多少是純 EM 還是汽車？

Alex, there was always a pretty significant automotive exposure and engineering materials. In fact, auto and building and construction are the largest markets for what I would call legacy legacy engineering materials.

亞歷克斯，總是有相當重要的汽車曝光和工程材料。事實上，汽車和建築業是我所說的傳統工程材料的最大市場。

So PMMA a lot of PMMA resin applications. I don't have a number for it. We'll have to get it of the percentage, the automotive compounding business that moved into engineer we'll have to get that and give it to you offline. I just want to be clear.

所以PMMA有機玻璃樹脂的應用領域很多。我沒有它的號碼。我們必須獲得進入工程師領域的汽車複合材料業務的百分比，我們必須獲得它並將其線下提供給您。我只是想說清楚。

The automotive compounding segment, not automotives in general, but okay, that's fine. We can follow up. Another one on the license sale with your Indian partner. Could you just remind us the duration of that agreement? And then I guess the bigger question is, if there is an expiration on that agreement, to the extent that the license and technology is still valuable, can you enter into a similar agreement again?

汽車複合材料領域，而不是一般的汽車領域，但沒關係。我們可以跟進。另一項是與你的印度合作夥伴進行的許可證銷售。你能提醒我們一下該協議的期限嗎？然後我想更大的問題是，如果協議到期，只要授權和技術仍然有價值，您還可以再次簽署類似的協議嗎？

And then on the other question on that partnership is, Frank, I think you mentioned you know the start of a strategic relationship with that partner. Can you just talk about what that means or anything else we should expect with.

關於該合作關係的另一個問題是，弗蘭克，我想你提到過你知道與該合作夥伴建立戰略關係的開始。您能否談談這意味著什麼或我們應該期待什麼？

Yeah, so. No thanks. That's a great question. Maybe let me give you a little color, a little more background on who Deepak nitrite is. Deepak is one of the largest Indian public companies in the chemical industry. They are the largest phenol acetone producer in India.

是啊。不，謝謝。這是一個很好的問題。也許我可以為你介紹一下 Deepak Nitrite 的背景。Deepak 是印度化學工業最大的上市公司之一。他們是印度最大的苯酚丙酮生產商。

And this is an attempt, this is a move on their part to move downstream to forward integrate in these value chains because India is a net importer of polycarbonate. There is no domestic production as well and so you know this that's sort of their strategy; their sales are over. They are multibillion-dollar revenue company market cap of $4.5 billion.

這是一種嘗試，這是他們向下游邁進並向前整合這些價值鏈的舉措，因為印度是聚碳酸酯的淨進口國。國內也沒有生產，所以你知道這是他們的策略；他們的銷售已經結束了。他們是一家收入達數十億美元的公司，市值為 45 億美元。

So, they are a substantial company and have a great presence and cost position in the value chains we participate, so it's India's in my career I've had a lot of operations in India. It's a hard, it's hard to get critical mass in India.

所以，他們是一家實力雄厚的公司，在我們參與的價值鏈中佔有重要地位，且佔據成本優勢，所以在我的職業生涯中，我在印度開展過很多業務。這很難，在印度很難達到臨界規模。

So partnerships are important and so having a substantial company that you're partnered with that gives you access to the market is important and like we said earlier, in our downstream formulated products we would see a high single digit compounded annual growth rate in our end markets for our solutions and you know it it's a big opportunity for us going forward.

因此，合作夥伴關係非常重要，擁有一家能夠讓您進入市場的大型公司非常重要，就像我們之前所說的那樣，在我們的下游配方產品中，我們會看到我們的解決方案在終端市場中實現高個位數的複合年增長率，這對我們未來來說是一個巨大的機會。

So on the the license, it's a perpetual license. We believe, as I said in the script, we believe our polycarbonate technology is unique and one of the best technologies in the industry. It just didn't in Germany it was disadvantaged for a number of reasons, but elsewhere it is of significant value and then we have the option to expand the capacity. With Deepak as well as provide other licenses and other geographies.

因此就許可證而言，它是一個永久許可證。我們相信，正如我在腳本中所說，我們相信我們的聚碳酸酯技術是獨一無二的，並且是業內最好的技術之一。它在德國並沒有因為多種原因而處於不利地位，但在其他地方，它具有重要價值，因此我們可以選擇擴大產能。與 Deepak 一起提供其他許可證和其他地理位置。

Okay, that's very helpful. Two more for me if I may. On 2025. I understand lots of moving pieces and you're reticent to offer a true guide out there. But if I just take, the cleansing docs in the last transaction, 2025 estimate of, 300 to 350s as we sit here today knowing what we know and don't know about the market, do you think that those are still a reasonable goalpost for the year?

好的，這非常有幫助。如果可以的話，再給我兩個。2025年。我了解很多移動的部分，但你不願意提供真正的指南。但是，如果我只考慮上次交易中的清理文件，即 2025 年的估計數字，那麼 300 到 350 之間，而我們今天坐在這裡，了解我們對市場的了解和不了解的情況，您認為這些仍然是今年的合理目標嗎？

Yeah, I'm not, we're not going to give guidance for the full year or even bracket it, but what I would tell you, because there's so much market uncertainty, there's positives and negatives that are in development, even over last night, developments, so it's, I don't want to bracket where we would end up, but I go back to the comments that I would make that I made, I think for Hassan.

是的，我們不會給出全年的指引，甚至不會給出區間指引，但我想告訴你，因為市場存在太多的不確定性，有積極的因素和消極的因素在發展，甚至昨晚也有發展，所以，我不想預測我們最終會走向何方，但我回到我對哈桑的評論。

We're very confident in positive earnings momentum and because a lot of the actions we've taken are well within our control and those buckets are what we talked about with Deepak, the SG&A restructuring. The make versus buy decision in polycarbonate and the closure in sad as well as business wins and then again, a much more normalized earnings contribution from AmSty so those are, that's a pretty, those are positive benefits to this year.

我們對正向的獲利動能非常有信心，因為我們採取的許多行動都在我們的控制範圍內，而這些正是我們與 Deepak 討論的銷售、一般及行政費用重組。聚碳酸酯的自主生產與購買決策，以及業務的結束，以及 AmSty 更正常化的獲利貢獻，這些都是今年的積極效益。

Right. And last one, if I may, just the status of cost cuts, Frank or David, I think I think you mentioned 2025 to be realized in 2025 again just looking at the old deck that was posted with the last transaction, it was noted there was $80 million of cost doubt to be realized 2025.

正確的。最後一個問題，如果可以的話，我只想問一下成本削減的情況，弗蘭克或大衛，我想您提到過 2025 年將在 2025 年實現，只需看一下上次交易中發布的舊演示文稿，就會發現有 8000 萬美元的成本疑問將在 2025 年實現。

Can you just help me sort of bridge those numbers or more simply just kind of remind us like where you guys stand in terms of total cost outs from the various closures and the corporate restructuring how much has been realized to date and what we should expect in 2025 and maybe in the 2026. Thank You.

您能否幫助我理清這些數字，或更簡單地提醒我們，就各處關閉和公司重組的總成本而言，到目前為止已經實現了多少，以及我們應該對 2025 年和 2026 年抱有怎樣的期望。謝謝。

Yeah, well, we'll have to go back to you and try and, I don't, I'm not sure I can give you an answer to that question. What I'm very certain of is the incremental SG&A benefit from the actions that we announced late last year are $25 million the impact of polycarbonates.

是的，好吧，我們必須回到你身邊並嘗試，但我不確定我是否能給你這個問題的答案。我非常確定的是，我們在去年年底宣布的行動所帶來的增量銷售、一般及行政管理收益將達到 2,500 萬美元，這是聚碳酸酯的影響。

Is there, we realize some of that there's an incremental benefit from some of that, and again it's I'd have to, we'll have to follow up with you to give you a complete analysis of that. But what I would tell you is we've taken fixed costs down by well over $100 million over the past two years, and we're on track to deliver everything that we have announced, so. I don't know. I'm looking at Dave answer that better than I did

我們是否意識到其中的一些會帶來一些增量利益，而且我必須再次跟進，以便為您提供完整的分析。但我想告訴你的是，我們在過去兩年裡已經將固定成本削減了 1 億多美元，而且我們正在按計劃實現我們宣布的所有目標。我不知道。我認為 Dave 的回答比我好

So, Alex look, the actions that we've taken, we will get the full year realization of savings in 2025 substantially. I mean for the You know the headcount reductions, the restructuring, that's $30 million. We got 5 last year. We'll get an increment of 2025, so we'll get the full run rate of that this year. We'll also get the full realization of the polycarbonate savings. Obviously, the Tyrene stuff was done years earlier, so we're already seeing the full effect of that in 2025.

所以，亞歷克斯，看，我們已經採取的行動，將在 2025 年實現全年大幅節省。我的意思是，對於裁員和重組來說，這筆費用是 3000 萬美元。去年我們有 5 個。我們將獲得 2025 年的增量，因此今年我們將獲得該增量的全部運行率。我們也將充分實現聚碳酸酯的節約。顯然，Tyrene 的事情幾年前就已經完成了，所以我們在 2025 年就已經看到了它的全部影響。

Thank you. We have time for one more question. It comes from the line of David Begleiter of Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.

謝謝。我們還有時間再回答一個問題。它來自德意志銀行的 David Begleiter 的理念。您的線路已開通。

Thank you. Just a couple of questions, back to guidance, and I'm sorry, but one more try. In Q1 the polycarbonate agreement, you look at about mid-40s EBITDA the last two years you've seen a progression of roughly $20 million sequentially higher in Q2, gets to do about mid-60s for Q2. Is that a good run rate? Is that a good proxy at least? Directly speaking for Q2 versus Q1, perhaps mid-60s versus where we are right now.

謝謝。只剩幾個問題了，回到指導，很抱歉，但請再試一次。在第一季的聚碳酸酯協議中，你可以看到過去兩年的 EBITDA 約為 45 億美元左右，而第二季度則環比增長了約 2000 萬美元，第二季度的 EBITDA 約為 65 億美元左右。這是一個好的運行率嗎？這至少是一個好的代理商嗎？直接來說，第二季與第一季相比，相對於現在的水平，大概是 60 年代中期。

Yeah, David, thanks for the question. The actually Q1 is somewhat more depressed than normal because it's been a slower start to the year than typical, and then I would also say that we have pricing lag in Q1 that's not immaterial, mainly in EM because we get, we've been providing quarterly pricing we price the product.

是的，大衛，謝謝你的提問。實際上，第一季的表現比正常情況更為低迷，因為今年的開局比平常慢，而且我想說，第一季的定價落後並非不重要，主要是在新興市場，因為我們一直在提供季度定價，我們對產品進行定價。

Our products to our end customers at the end of Q4 and again it's very volatile, but input costs a lot of the input costs into EM in Europe are based on natural gas price, and the TTF has gone up and those related products that are based on TTF have gone up with them.

我們的產品在第四季末交付給最終客戶，儘管價格波動很大，但歐洲新興市場的投入成本很大一部分是基於天然氣價格的，而 TTF 已經上漲，基於 TTF 的相關產品也隨之上漲。

So that we see today we see some pricing lag that would not be recurring after Q1. So, I would say yes, I would agree with you too and Q2 and Q3 will be an improvement over Q1, but you know it would not, I wouldn't compare it to prior year simply because we're seeing more pronounced more pronounced slow start to the year and then we have the pricing.

因此，我們今天看到的定價滯後現像在第一季之後不會再出現。所以，我想說是的，我也同意你的觀點，第二季度和第三季度將比第一季度有所改善，但你知道不會，我不會將其與去年同期進行比較，因為我們看到今年開局更加明顯的緩慢，然後我們有定價。

Understood. And just on polystyrene, are these assets core now to [Trinia]?

明白了。就聚苯乙烯而言，這些資產現在是否為[特里妮亞]？

No, we, our polystyrene assets are great assets. They're actually, we've done a great job. Managing those in the past couple of years to optimize the free cash flow generation of the assets, but we believe that other people would be investors would invest in the growth of those assets, and we continued to feel inbounds and work with potential buyers for those assets, but on an individual basis around the world.

不，我們的聚苯乙烯資產是寶貴的資產。事實上，我們做得很好。過去幾年來，我們一直在管理這些資產，以優化資產的自由現金流生成，但我們相信其他人也會是投資者，他們會投資於這些資產的增長，我們也會繼續感受並與這些資產的潛在買家合作，但在全球範圍內都是以個體為基礎的。

And there's nothing to report, but again, there's activity and interest, so we would continue to explore the possibility of selling those individual assets and are doing that.

目前沒有什麼可報告的，但是再說一次，存在活動和興趣，因此我們將繼續探索出售這些個人資產的可能性，並且正在這樣做。

And just one last thing on AmSty , is it fair to say the process, Dell's process has been halted, and if it is, has been halted, when was it halted?

關於 AmSty 的最後一件事是，是否可以說戴爾的流程已經停止？

It's not halted, we're as I said, we're working in conjunction with our partner. We, our goal is to monetize our interest in AmSty , and we will continue to progress that, but we want to time our process to optimize value, and so that just means a later marketing than we had originally anticipated.

這並沒有停止，正如我所說，我們正在與我們的合作夥伴共同努力。我們的目標是將我們對 AmSty 的權益貨幣化，我們將繼續推進這一目標，但我們希望把握時機以優化價值，所以這意味著行銷將比我們最初預期的要晚。

Thank you.

謝謝。

With no further questions, that concludes our Q&A session. We thank you for your participation. This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

如果沒有其他問題，我們的問答環節就結束了。我們感謝您的參與。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。