Torm PLC (TRMD) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Rebecca, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the TORM third-quarter 2025 results conference call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝您的耐心等待。我叫麗貝卡，今天我將擔任你們的會議接線生。在此，我謹代表TORM公司歡迎各位參加2025年第三季業績電話會議。（操作說明）

Thank you. I would like to turn the call over to Jacob Meldgaard, CEO. Please go ahead.

謝謝。我謹將電話轉交給執行長雅各布·梅爾加德。請繼續。

Yeah. Thank you, and also welcome to everyone joining us here today from me. This morning, we released our interim results for the third quarter of 2025, delivering another strong set of numbers that underscore TORM's ability to generate market-leading performance.

是的。謝謝大家，也歡迎今天所有來到這裡的朋友。今天上午，我們發布了 2025 年第三季的中期業績，再次取得了一系列強勁的業績數據，凸顯了 TORM 創造市場領先業績的能力。

In Q3, we continued to operate in a relatively stable market environment despite ongoing geopolitical tensions. Freight rates firmed compared to the first half of the year, driving a TCE of USD236 million, above the levels achieved in the previous quarters. This, in turn, resulted in a net profit of USD78 million, enabling us to declare a dividend of USD0.62 per share, clearly reflecting how stronger earnings translate into higher shareholder returns.

第三季度，儘管地緣政治緊張局勢持續，但我們繼續在相對穩定的市場環境下運作。與上半年相比，貨運價格走強，推動總有效合約金額達到 2.36 億美元，高於前幾季的水平。這最終帶來了 7800 萬美元的淨利潤，使我們能夠宣布每股 0.62 美元的股息，這清楚地反映了更強勁的盈利如何轉化為更高的股東回報。

Also, we advanced our fleet optimization strategy with the acquisition of five vessels: four 2014-built MRs and one 2010-built LR2, while divesting a 2007-built MR. We also agreed a three-year time charter for the 2009-built MR vessel, TORM Lilly, to a European refiner at a daily rate of USD22,234, thus above the prevailing market rate for such vintage. These transactions support our ongoing focus on maintaining a modern, high-quality, and commercially attractive fleet.

此外，我們透過收購五艘船舶推進了船隊優化策略：四艘2014年建造的MR型船和一艘2010年建造的LR2型船，同時出售了一艘2007年建造的MR型船。我們還與一家歐洲煉油廠簽訂了一份為期三年的定期租船合同，租船船舶為2009年建造的MR型船“TORM Lilly”，日租金為22,234美元，高於同船齡船舶的市場租金。這些交易支持我們持續專注於維持一支現代化、高品質且具有商業吸引力的機隊。

Looking ahead, while the macroenvironment remains dynamic and shaped by geopolitical uncertainty, market sentiment is broadly positive. We entered the final months of the year with solid momentum, supported by firm rates across all vessel segments and good visibility on our upcoming fixtures. Based on this and the coverage we have already secured, we further increased the midpoint of our guidance and narrowed the range to reflect a high level of transparency on earnings with relatively few uncovered days for the remainder of 2025. As always, we remain disciplined and agile in our execution. And with that, let's turn to the key market drivers and how we are positioned for the quarters ahead.

展望未來，儘管宏觀環境依然動態變化，並受到地緣政治不確定性的影響，但市場情緒總體上是正面的。進入今年最後幾個月，我們保持了強勁的發展勢頭，這得益於所有船舶板塊的運價堅挺以及即將到來的航次安排的良好前景。基於此以及我們已經獲得的保障，我們進一步提高了業績指引的中點，並縮小了指引範圍，以反映2025年剩餘時間盈利的高度透明度以及相對較少的未覆蓋天數。一如既往，我們在執行過程中保持嚴謹和靈活。接下來，讓我們來看看關鍵的市場驅動因素以及我們為未來幾季所做的準備。

Here, please turn to slide 5. And let's start with a snapshot of the market landscape. Product tanker rates have remained both stable and attractive across the board. While recent figures reflect the onset of refinery maintenance season in the Atlantic and the Middle East, benchmark earnings for our MR and LR2 vessels continue to show resilience. This overall rate stability is supported by consistent demand and limited growth in the CPP trading fleet.

請翻到第5張投影片。讓我們先來了解市場概況。成品油輪運價整體上保持穩定且具吸引力。儘管最近的數據反映了大西洋和中東煉油廠維護季的開始，但我們 MR 和 LR2 型船舶的基準收益繼續顯示出韌性。整體利率的穩定得益於持續的需求和 CPP 交易船隊的有限成長。

Let's turn to slide 6. As we've noted for some time, the low levels of East to West trade volumes observed earlier this year were unsustainable. Indeed, in the third quarter, trade volumes increased significantly, driven by higher middle distillate flows from East to West, supported by transatlantic movements. This lifted ton-miles well above the levels seen before the Red Sea disruption, while crude cannibalization stabilized at historically normal levels.

讓我們翻到第6張投影片。正如我們一段時間以來所指出的，今年稍早觀察到的東向西貿易量低迷是不可持續的。事實上，第三季貿易量大幅成長，這主要得益於東向西的中餾分油流量增加，以及跨大西洋貿易的支持。這使得噸英里數遠高於紅海海戰中斷之前的水平，而原油蠶食則穩定在歷史正常水平。

At the start of the fourth quarter, trade flows have eased slightly as refineries in the West and the Middle East undergo seasonal maintenance. However, as maintenance concludes, trade flows are expected to resume, further supported by refinery closures in the West, which increase the need to source products from alternative locations.

第四季初，由於西方和中東的煉油廠進行季節性維護，貿易流量略有放緩。然而，隨著維護工作的結束，貿易流動預計將會恢復，西方煉油廠的關閉也將進一步支持貿易流動，因為這增加了從其他地區採購產品的需求。

Please turn to slide 7 to elaborate on that. And since the start of this year, two refineries in Northwest Europe have closed with two more scheduled to shut by end year. Together, these closures represent 6% of the region's refining capacity, reducing local product supply and increasing reliance on imported middle distillates in an already tight market.

請翻到第7張投影片查看詳細說明。今年以來，西北歐已有兩家煉油廠關閉，另有兩家計畫在年底前關閉。這些煉油廠的關閉佔該地區煉油產能的 6%，減少了當地產品的供應，並加劇了本已供應緊張的市場對進口中間餾分油的依賴。

If this supply were fully replaced by imports from the Middle East Gulf, an additional 15 to 24 LR2 equivalents per year would be required, depending on whether vessels transit the Red Sea or sail around the Cape of Good Hope. To put this in perspective, this represents 6% to 10% of the current CPP trading LR2 fleet.

如果完全以來自中東海灣的進口來替代此供應，每年將需要額外增加 15 至 24 LR2 等效船舶，具體取決於船舶是途經紅海還是繞過好望角。換個角度來看，這相當於目前 CPP 交易的 LR2 機隊的 6% 到 10%。

Beyond Europe, two refineries on the US West Coast, representing 11% of the region's capacity, are expected to close within the next six months. This will likely drive increased demand for gasoline and jet fuel imports, translating into a need for more than 25 MR equivalents on a roundtrip basis if sourced from Asia.

除歐洲以外，美國西海岸的兩家煉油廠預計在未來六個月內關閉，這兩家煉油廠佔該地區煉油廠產能的 11%。這很可能會推動汽油和航空燃油進口需求的增加，如果從亞洲採購，則往返所需量將超過 25 MR 單位。

And here, I kindly ask you to turn to slide 8. Geopolitical developments continue to be a key market driver. Since our last quarterly call, several new measures have emerged. While the duration of these measures remain uncertain, inefficiencies caused by the Red Sea disruption and sanctions on Russia continue to support the tanker market.

現在，請翻到第 8 張投影片。地緣政治發展仍是影響市場的重要因素。自從我們上次季度電話會議以來，已經出現了一些新的措施。儘管這些措施的持續時間仍不確定，但紅海航運中斷和對俄羅斯的製裁造成的效率低下繼續支撐著油輪市場。

Earlier this year, OPEC+ began unwinding production cuts, but the impact on crude tanker rates only became apparent at the end of the third quarter. We expect the positive effect of strong VLCC rates on product tankers to become more visible once the refinery maintenance season concludes.

今年早些時候，歐佩克+開始逐步取消減產，但對原油油輪運費的影響直到第三季末才顯現出來。我們預計，隨著煉油廠檢修季的結束，強勁的超大型油輪運價對成品油輪的正面影響將更加明顯。

Sanctions against Russia have intensified in recent months. The EU import ban on third-country petroleum products derived from Russian crude, effective January next year, is not expected to significantly affect product tanker ton-miles as alternative sources are available at similar distances or could slightly increase demand if imports are sourced from further away.

近幾個月來，對俄羅斯的製裁力道有所加大。歐盟將於明年1月起禁止進口源自俄羅斯原油的第三國石油產品，預計不會對成品油輪噸英里數產生重大影響，因為在相近的距離內有替代來源，或者如果進口來源更遠，則可能會略微增加需求。

Meanwhile, intensified drone attacks on Russian refineries have reduced Russian clean petroleum product flows, boosting flows from the US Gulf. Recent OPEC sanctions on Rosneft and Lukoil may further lower Russian crude export.

同時，針對俄羅斯煉油廠的無人機攻擊加劇，導致俄羅斯清潔石油產品流量減少，增加了來自美國墨西哥灣的石油產品流量。歐佩克近期對俄羅斯石油公司和盧克石油公司的製裁可能會進一步降低俄羅斯原油出口。

While the direct loss of Russian barrels is limited to the sanctioned fleet, replacement barrels from other regions would provide additional demand support for the conventional crude tanker fleet in an already strong rate environment, indirectly benefiting the product tanker market.

雖然俄羅斯原油的直接損失僅限於受制裁的船隊，但來自其他地區的替代原油將在已經強勁的運價環境下為常規原油油輪船隊提供額外的需求支持，從而間接惠及成品油輪市場。

Regarding US-China reciprocal port fees, these are now off the table for another 12 months. While such measures could have added inefficiencies to the broader tanker market, TORM would have seen limited impact due to exemptions and the flexibility of our fleet.

關於中美互惠港口費，這些費用將在未來 12 個月內不再討論。雖然這些措施可能會降低整個油輪市場的效率，但由於豁免和我們船隊的靈活性，TORM受到的影響有限。

Finally, IMO's postponement of the Net-Zero Framework in October does not affect the market today, but signals that oil will continue to play a role in the maritime industry for the foreseeable future.

最後，國際海事組織推遲實施淨零排放框架的決定雖然不會對今天的市場產生影響，但顯示在可預見的未來，石油仍將在海運業中發揮作用。

Please turn to slide 9. Let me turn to the tonnage supply side. This year's higher nominal fleet growth has been largely absorbed by a significant shift of LR2s into dirty trades as OFAC sanctions continue to limit the productivity of sanctioned Aframaxes. Over the past year, nearly 50 newbuild LR2s have joined the fleet, yet the number of LR2s trading clean has declined by around 10 vessels. As a result, total clean product tanker capacity has fallen by roughly 1% despite a 5% increase in the nominal product tanker fleet.

請翻到第9頁投影片。接下來我來談談噸位供應方面。今年名目船隊成長的增加很大程度上被LR2型船大量轉向高污染貿易所抵消，因為OFAC制裁繼續限制受制裁的阿芙拉型船的生產力。過去一年，近 50 艘新建的 LR2 型船舶加入了船隊，但目前從事清潔貿易的 LR2 型船舶數量減少了約 10 艘。因此，儘管名義上的成品油輪船隊規模增加了 5%，但清潔成品油輪的總運力卻下降了約 1%。

Looking ahead, the relatively high order book for the next two to three years should be viewed in the context of an aging fleet. The average age is now at a two-decade high, and the share of vessels approaching scrapping age is almost equivalent to the current order book.

展望未來兩到三年相對較高的訂單量，應該放在艦隊老化的大背景下看待。目前船舶平均船齡已達二十年之高，接近報廢船齡的船舶比例幾乎與目前的訂單量相當。

Furthermore, a significant portion of the older fleet remains under sanctions, which is expected to accelerate exits from the market. This is particularly evident in the combined LR2 Aframax segment, where one in four vessels globally is under OPEC, EU, or UK sanctions.

此外，相當一部分老舊船隊仍處於制裁之下，預計這將加速它們退出市場。這點在 LR2 阿芙拉型船細分市場尤其明顯，全球每四艘船舶就有一艘受到歐佩克、歐盟或英國的製裁。

Kindly turn to slide 10. To summarize, the key factors shaping the market this year are expected to continue into next year, including ongoing geopolitical uncertainty, the Red Sea disruption and sanctions on Russia. In addition, higher crude output from OPEC is indirectly supporting the product tanker market.

請翻到第10張投影片。總而言之，今年影響市場的主要因素預計將延續到明年，包括持續的地緣政治不確定性、紅海局勢動盪以及對俄羅斯的製裁。此外，歐佩克原油產量增加也間接支撐了成品油輪市場。

On the demand side, oil consumption remains solid, and structural changes in the global refinery landscape continue to support ton-mile growth.

需求方面，石油消費依然穩健，全球煉油格局的結構性變化持續支撐著噸英里數的成長。

On the supply side, a wave of newbuild deliveries will be offset by an increasing number of scrapping candidates and reduced trading activity among sanctioned vessels, factors that will influence overall tonnage availability and market balance.

在供應方面，新造船交付的浪潮將被越來越多的待拆解船舶和被制裁船舶之間的交易活動減少所抵消，這些因素將影響整體噸位供應和市場平衡。

I'm confident that TORM is well-positioned to navigate this environment of elevated uncertainty, supported by our strong capital structure, operational leverage, and fully integrated platform.

我相信，憑藉我們強大的資本結構、營運槓桿和完全一體化的平台，TORM 完全有能力應對當前高度不確定的環境。

And with that, I will now hand it over to Kim, who will walk us through the financials.

接下來，我將把麥克風交給金，她將為我們解釋財務狀況。

Thank you, Jacob. And please turn to slide 12 for an overview of the financials. In the third quarter, we generated TCE revenues of USD236 million, resulting in an EBITDA of USD152 million and a net profit of USD78 million. On a fleet-wide basis, we achieved TCE rates of USD31,012 per day. And breaking it down by vessel class, LR2s earned well above $38,000, LR1s around $29,500 and MRs exceeded USD28,000 per day. Compared to previous quarters, freight rates have strengthened, supported by solid market fundamentals. Once again, the rates we secured reflect our continued outperformance relative to the broader market.

謝謝你，雅各。請翻到第 12 頁查看財務概覽。第三季度，我們實現了 2.36 億美元的 TCE 收入，實現了 1.52 億美元的 EBITDA 和 7,800 萬美元的淨利潤。從整個船隊來看，我們實現了每天 31,012 美元的 TCE 費率。按船舶等級細分，LR2 型船舶的收入遠超過 38,000 美元，LR1 型船舶的收入約為 29,500 美元，而 MR 型船舶的收入則超過每天 28,000 美元。與前幾季相比，在穩健的市場基本面支撐下，貨運價格走強。再次證明，我們所取得的利率反映了我們相對於整體市場的持續優異表現。

And now, move to slide 13, please. This slide shows our quarterly revenue progression since Q3 2024. With this quarter's results, we see meaningful uptick, adding to the stable freight rates and earnings of prior quarters. This further highlights the favorable market conditions we are operating in. We delivered a satisfactory result with TCE of $236 million and an EBITDA of USD152 million, USD25 million higher than previous quarter. This improvement reflects a USD4,340 per day increase in fleet-wide TCE rates. Given our current operational leverage, we are well-positioned to benefit from the already very attractive freight rates.

現在，請翻到第13張投影片。此投影片展示了我們自 2024 年第三季以來的季度收入成長。本季業績顯示，貨運價格和收益均有顯著成長，此前幾季貨運價格和收益一直保持穩定。這進一步凸顯了我們所處的有利市場環境。我們取得了令人滿意的業績，TCE 為 2.36 億美元，EBITDA 為 1.52 億美元，比上一季高出 2,500 萬美元。這一改善反映了整個船隊 TCE 費率每天增加 4,340 美元。鑑於我們目前的營運優勢，我們完全有能力從已經非常優惠的運費中獲益。

Please turn to slide 14. Here, we present the quarterly development in net profit and key share-related metrics, which closely track the trend in EBITDA. So, for the third quarter, earnings per share came in at USD0.79. Our approach to shareholder returns remain clear and consistent. We continue to distribute excess liquidity on a quarterly basis, while maintaining a prudent financial buffer to protect our balance sheet.

請翻到第14頁。在此，我們展示了淨利潤和關鍵股份相關指標的季度發展情況，這些指標與 EBITDA 的趨勢密切相關。因此，第三季每股收益為0.79美元。我們對股東回報的策略依然清晰且一致。我們繼續按季度分配多餘的流動資金，同時保持審慎的財務緩衝，以保護我們的資產負債表。

For Q3, this has resulted in a declared dividend of USD0.62 per share, representing a payout ratio of 78%. This aligns with our free cash flow after debt repayments and reflect both our strong earnings and our ongoing commitments to responsible capital allocation.

第三季度，公司宣布派發每股 0.62 美元的股息，股息率為 78%。這與我們償還債務後的自由現金流相符，既反映了我們強勁的獲利能力，也體現了我們對負責任的資本配置的持續承諾。

Please turn to slide 15. As shown here, broker valuation for our fleet stood at USD2.9 billion at quarter-end. This reflects generally stable vessel values with a slightly positive sentiment, amongst other factors, resulting in a NAV increase of approximately USD100 million to USD2.4 billion.

請翻到第15頁。如圖所示，截至季末，我們機隊的經紀估值為 29 億美元。這反映出船舶價值整體穩定，市場情緒略微樂觀，以及其他因素，導致船舶淨值增加約 1 億美元，達到 24 億美元。

In the central chart, you will see our net interest-bearing debt now stands at USD690 million, corresponding to around 24%, roughly the same level as the last -- at the same time last year, underscoring the strength of our conservative capital structure.

在中心圖表中，您可以看到我們目前的淨計息債務為 6.9 億美元，約佔 24%，與去年同期水準大致相同，這凸顯了我們保守資本結構的穩健性。

On the right, our debt maturity profile shows that only USD122 million in borrowings will mature over the next 12 months and that we will have no significant maturities until 2029. This provides us with ample financial runway and stability.

右邊的債務到期情況顯示，未來 12 個月內只有 1.22 億美元的借款到期，而且到 2029 年之前我們不會有任何重大到期債務。這為我們提供了充足的財務緩衝和穩定性。

As we mentioned in August, we have secured an attractive refinancing package to replace two syndicated loan facilities and our lease agreements. To date, TORM has repurchased 13 out of 22 leaseback vessels, and two additional purchase options have been exercised with one vessel expected in Q4 2025 and the other in Q1 2026. The remaining vessels are scheduled for repurchase during 2026. Altogether, our strong financial position gives us the flexibility to navigate current market conditions and pursue value-creating opportunities.

正如我們在 8 月所提到的，我們已經獲得了一個有吸引力的再融資方案，以取代兩筆銀團貸款和我們的租賃協議。迄今為止，TORM 已回購了 22 艘回租船舶中的 13 艘，並已行使了另外兩項購買選擇權，預計一艘船舶將於 2025 年第四季度交付，另一艘將於 2026 年第一季交付。剩餘船舶計劃於 2026 年回購。總而言之，我們雄厚的財務實力使我們能夠靈活應對當前的市場狀況，並尋求創造價值的機會。

And now, please turn to slide 16 for the outlook. Our strong performance in the first three quarters provides a solid foundation for the remaining part of the year. As of October 31, we have secured 55% of our Q4 earnings days at an average of TCE $30,156 per day. For the full year 2025, 89% of our earning days are fixed at an average TCE of USD28,281 per day. These levels provide solid earnings visibility and reflects continued market strength across our business segments.

現在，請翻到第 16 張投影片了解展望。前三個季度的強勁表現為今年剩餘時間奠定了堅實的基礎。截至 10 月 31 日，我們已確保了第四季 55% 的收益日，平均每日 TCE 為 30,156 美元。2025 年全年，89% 的收入日固定為平均每日 TCE 28,281 美元。這些水準提供了可靠的獲利可見性，並反映了我們各個業務部門持續的市場強勁勢頭。

While geopolitical volatility remains a factor, market sentiment is firm. On this basis, we are confident in increasing the midpoint of our TCE guidance by USD25 million to USD900 million, while further narrowing our full-year guidance. Thus, we now expect TCE earnings of between USD875 million to USD925 million compared to our previous range of USD800 million to USD950 million.

儘管地緣政治波動仍是一個影響因素，但市場情緒依然堅挺。基於此，我們有信心將 TCE 預期中位數提高 2,500 萬美元至 9 億美元，同時進一步縮小全年預期範圍。因此，我們現在預計 TCE 的收益將在 8.75 億美元至 9.25 億美元之間，而我們先前預期的範圍為 8 億美元至 9.5 億美元。

Similarly, we increased the midpoint and narrowed our EBITDA guidance to USD540 million to USD590 million compared to the prior range of USD475 million to USD625 million. This revision reflects both our secured coverage and current market expectation, while acknowledging the potential for continued fluctuations.

同樣，我們將 EBITDA 預期中位數上調至 5.4 億美元至 5.9 億美元，而先前的預期範圍為 4.75 億美元至 6.25 億美元。此次修訂反映了我們已落實的保障措施和當前的市場預期，同時也考慮到市場可能持續波動。

And with that, I will conclude my remarks and hand it back to the operator.

至此，我的發言就結束了，並將麥克風交還給操作員。

(Operator Instructions) Frode Morkedal, Clarksons.

（操作說明）Frode Morkedal，Clarksons。

Okay, thank you. Hi, guys. I just read trade wins where you talked about 2009-built MR charter out for three years at $22,000 per day, which is like a fantastic rate, given the age, right? Basically, 3.5 times EBITDA, as I see it. So the question is, really, how do you manage to pull that off and how repeatable is it to charter out for such long duration for that type of age?

好的，謝謝。嗨，大家好。我剛剛讀到你提到的交易勝利，你談到一艘 2009 年建造的 MR 型遊輪以每天 22,000 美元的價格租期三年，考慮到船齡，這價格真是太棒了，對吧？依我看來，基本上是 EBITDA 的 3.5 倍。所以真正的問題是，你如何做到這一點，以及對於這種年齡層的人來說，如此長時間的包船出海是否具有可重複性？

Yeah. Well, thank you for noticing. I did also mention it in the remarks here. I think there are two things. One is being able to be able to charter out ships that are, in this case, more than 15 years of age, and then, how many opportunities are there.

是的。謝謝你的關注。我在評論中也提到了這一點。我認為有兩件事。一是能夠租借船齡超過 15 年的船舶，二是機會有多少。

We take it the first point first, and I think the point about having an integrated platform, really our customers, I would argue, is not really age-focused in their dealings with us because we have a platform where all our assets are living up to the same standards.

我們先來看第一點，我認為關於擁有一個整合平台這一點，實際上，我認為我們的客戶在與我們打交道時並不真正關注年齡，因為我們有一個平台，我們所有的資產都符合相同的標準。

If you come to human behavior, safety, et cetera, it's exactly the same people on board a vessel that is, let's say, straight out of the yard or one that is built in 2009. And also on efficiency, all the things that we do to make it a TORM vessel when we own and control it is the same across the fleet. So I think my point being, I don't see this as unique because our customers will look at TORM delivering the same type of service for any of our vessels.

如果談到人的行為、安全等等，那麼船上的人，無論是剛下水的新船，還是 2009 年建造的船，都是一樣的。另外，在效率方面，我們為使其成為 TORM 船所做的所有事情，在我們擁有和控制的情況下，在整個船隊中都是相同的。所以我的意思是，我不認為這是獨一無二的，因為我們的客戶會期望TORM為我們所有的船舶提供相同類型的服務。

Then to your question, how many are there, we are -- I mean, this is a European refinery A1. Will there be more? Time will tell. We are in negotiations on several of our ships on longer duration. And clearly, with the market that we are experiencing right now, it is so that we are in more frequent dialogue with customers around longer-term deals than what we were six months ago.

至於你問的有多少家，我們——我的意思是，這是一家歐洲煉油廠 A1。還會有更多嗎？時間會證明一切。我們正在就幾艘船舶的長期租賃事宜進行談判。顯然，鑑於我們目前所處的市場狀況，我們與客戶就長期交易進行的對話比六個月前更加頻繁。

But it is quite a game of that we're only going to do this if it makes financial sense. We don't need to take the cover because of, obviously, the financial strength on the balance sheet that Kim, I think, went through in detail.

但這就像一場遊戲，我們只會在經濟上划算的情況下才會去做這件事。我們顯然不需要採取掩護措施，因為金正恩詳細分析了公司資產負債表的財務實力。

Interesting. I mean, yeah, for sure. I mean, 30% cash return on such a deal certainly means ship value should increase, right? Which brings me to the next question really is about -- you also announced the four MRs, so you're buying ships -- and one LR2, I guess. You also sold older ships.

有趣的。我的意思是，是的，當然。我的意思是，這樣一筆交易能帶來 30% 的現金回報，那船舶的價值也一定會增加，對吧？這就引出了我的下一個問題，實際上是關於——你們還宣布了四艘MR，所以你們正在購買船隻——還有一艘LR2，我猜。你也出售過舊船。

Just like broadly speaking, how is your thought process when you made those decisions? Are you looking at some type of return hurdle, cash breakeven or maybe the time charter opportunities?

總的來說，你在做這些決定時，思考過程是怎麼樣的？您是在考慮某種回報門檻、現金損益平衡點，還是定期租船機會？

Yeah, good question. I think the answer is all of the above. So we don't only look at one metric, but of course, it needs to qualify for the -- our internal hurdle for what we deem to be a proper IRR and also return on invested capital, given that we are in volatile markets and we are spot operation. Of course, it needs to pass on that parameter when we look at asset acquisitions.

嗯，問得好。我認為答案是以上所有選項。因此，我們不僅專注於一個指標，當然，它還需要符合我們內部設定的門檻，即我們認為合適的內部收益率 (IRR) 和投資資本回報率，因為我們身處波動的市場，而且我們正在進行現貨交易。當然，在考慮資產收購時，我們需要傳遞這個參數。

But I think, again, I'll make the same point here. So probably, I'm a little repetitive. But I think we are also -- we have the benefit of that when we make investment analysis, we are not sticky on vessel age or the vessel segment. What we are really sticking on is that it meets the return requirements, the hurdles that we have set for ourselves because we are in a business that is volatile.

但我認為，我在這裡還要再說一次同樣的觀點。所以，我可能有點愛重複。但我認為，我們在進行投資分析時也有這樣的優勢，我們不會拘泥於船齡或船舶類別。我們真正堅持的是，它符合回報要求，達到了我們為自己設定的門檻，因為我們身處在一個波動性很大的行業。

So of course, we need to have a decent return in order for us to utilize our capital against the asset. But the luxury we have because of the platform that I also described about the charter opportunities is so that I feel very comfortable that our organization can generate maximum value out of whether it's an MR built in -- 5 years of age or 10 or 15, or whether it's one of the other segments.

所以，我們當然需要獲得合理的回報，才能將我們的資本用於這項資產。但由於我之前提到的平台提供的包機機會，我們擁有了很大的優勢，所以我非常有信心，無論我們的組織是能夠從內建的 MR（5 歲、10 歲或 15 歲）還是其他細分市場中創造最大價值。

And that, of course, offers me more investment opportunities to study and look at IRRs and ultimately return on invested capital from not only one angle and not only one particular type of ship because we really had the ability with our integrated platform to accommodate all of this.

當然，這為我提供了更多的投資機會，讓我能夠從不同的角度、不同的船舶類型來研究和考察內部收益率 (IRR) 以及最終的投資資本回報率，因為我們的一體化平台確實有能力滿足所有這些需求。

So obviously, coming to your point, the four -- actually five vessels we've acquired, they, in our opinion, all of them individually meet the return hurdles that we have, whereas if we looked at the one that we sold, that was an asset where we could see that it was -- actually, the NPV of that sale was better than maintaining it in our fleet and operating it. It was not that we could not do it, but we had an offer that was better than what our business plan would dictate that you could get.

所以很明顯，回到你剛才的觀點，我們收購的四艘船——實際上是五艘船，我們認為它們都各自達到了我們設定的回報門檻；而如果我們看看我們賣掉的那艘船，那是一項資產，我們可以看出——實際上，出售它的淨現值比把它留在我們的船隊裡運營要好。並非我們做不到，而是我們能提供比我們的商業計劃所能提供的更好的條件。

Interesting. Can you remind us, I guess, on how the One TORM platform actually works in practice? I guess, the way you pool intelligence, I don't know, cargo opportunities, positioning, essentially why that translates into the higher TCE than arguably peers are getting?

有趣的。您能否提醒我們一下，One TORM平台在實務上是如何運作的？我想，你們整合情報的方式，我不知道，貨物運輸機會，定位，本質上為什麼這能轉化為比同行更高的總成本效益？

Yeah, very happy to. So basically, I think you should look a little away from the fact that we are chartering the ships and start by looking at the ships themselves where we have an integrated platform where we hire all of our seafarers. So we can dictate which seafarers are on what ships at what time. We can, of course, dictate the quality, but also the focus area and incentivize these to work for the same thing as I just described, i.e., the return on invested capital at the end because they are not motivated by a particular ownership structure inside of a ship management company. They are all integrated.

是的，非常樂意。所以，我認為你應該暫時忽略我們租用船舶這一事實，而應該從船舶本身入手，我們有一個綜合平台，可以在上面僱用我們所有的海員。這樣我們就可以決定哪些海員在哪些船上出現。我們當然可以規定質量，也可以規定重點領域，並激勵他們為我剛才描述的同一目標而工作，即最終的投資資本回報，因為他們的動機並非來自船舶管理公司內部的特定所有權結構。它們都是一體化的。

So I think it starts on both the ships and it also starts with all the technicalities that we can apply on the ships. If we take over a ship, we will probably add 20 different investments that is physically changing the ships from what they are today into the type of vessels with the fuel efficiency that we would like to have.

所以我認為這既始於船舶本身，也始於我們可以應用於船舶的所有技術細節。如果我們接管一艘船，我們可能會增加 20 項不同的投資，從物理上改變船舶，使其從現在的樣子變成我們想要的那種具有燃油效率的船舶。

And then, it's sort of the broader picture of that we see, of course, ultimately that it is the dialogue with the customers that dictates the price. But before you get to that, there's a whole company that is working towards enabling the chartering team to get the best rates. And I think in that sense, it is different than the business models that we see in other companies where you are more of a steel owner, but where you outsource control of various functions.

然後，從更宏觀的角度來看，我們當然會發現，最終決定價格的是與客戶的對話。但在此之前，還有一家公司正在努力幫助包機團隊獲得最優惠的價格。我認為從這個意義上講，它與我們在其他公司看到的商業模式不同，在其他公司裡，你更像是鋼鐵所有者，但你會將各種職能的控制權外包出去。

We actually have everything in-house. And the discipline we can create by that is that we actually have common KPIs. Everybody in the organization is driven by the same KPIs. I think that is the secret sauce in this.

實際上，我們所有東西都是公司內部生產的。而透過這種方式我們可以建立的紀律是，我們實際上擁有共同的關鍵績效指標。組織中的每個人都以相同的KPI為驅動力。我認為這就是成功的秘訣。

And then, underneath the hood, there's, of course, many other things you also point to. You need to be in the right markets at the right time. You need to be really clever about how you position your fleet and think forward. And of course, we use tools in order to inform us about what do we believe is the best position that you can come in to maximize earning over a longer period.

當然，在這背後還有很多其他方面，你也提到了。你需要在適當的時間進入合適的市場。你需要非常巧妙地部署你的艦隊，並且具有前瞻性。當然，我們也會使用工具來幫助我們了解，我們認為您能處於的最佳位置是什麼，才能在較長的時間內最大限度地提高收入。

And I'm happy that you -- I think we really recognize that the value of the platform is that we are delivering TCE earnings ultimately that exceeds our peers.

我很高興你——我認為我們真正認識到該平台的價值在於，我們最終實現的 TCE 收益超過了我們的同行。

(Operator Instructions) Omar Nokta, Jefferies.

（操作說明）奧馬爾諾克塔，傑富瑞。

Good update. Obviously, very strong figures. I just had a couple of questions. Maybe just in terms of capital deployment, you bought the four MRs, the LR2. Those ships are somewhat older, but it looks like perhaps maybe they're in that sweet spot of return on investment. But I just want to get a sense from you, is this -- does this mark maybe a difference in how you're going to start deploying capital? Do you think going younger makes sense, or is this the right age profile where we are in the cycle, and I guess, maybe where TORM is in its life cycle? Is this the right age to be going after at this point?

更新不錯。顯然，這些數據非常強勁。我還有幾個問題。或許僅從資本部署的角度來看，你購買了四輛MR和一輛LR2。這些船隻雖然有些老舊，但看起來或許正處於投資報酬率的最佳時期。但我只是想從你那裡了解一下，這是否標誌著你在資金部署方式上可能存在一些變化？你認為年輕化是合理的嗎？還是說，在我們目前所處的生命週期階段，以及 TORM 所處的生命週期階段，這種年齡結構才是適當的？這個年紀適合談戀愛嗎？

Yeah. I think coming back to the right age is the age where you get the highest return on invested capital. We are not concerned about the age of these assets. Then we would obviously not have looked that way. So yeah, I think it's absolutely the right thing.

是的。我認為回歸的最佳年齡是投資回報率最高的年齡。我們並不擔心這些資產的年份。那我們顯然就不會那樣看了。是的，我認為這絕對是正確的做法。

Could it be that we could supplement with younger tonnage? Yes. When and if the price curve gives us the opportunity to buy the right type of assets that are younger, we will absolutely look that way also, Omar. But for now, I feel very comfortable with the choices that we have made, and then we are very open for business on any potential addition to our fleet.

我們能否用更年輕的船隊來補充？是的。奧馬爾，如果價格曲線給我們提供了購買合適的、較新的資產的機會，我們肯定也會考慮這樣做。但就目前而言，我對我們所做的選擇感到非常滿意，而且我們對任何可能擴充機隊的可能性都持非常開放的態度。

Okay. Very good. And then, second question I have is on the dividend. It looks like you bumped the payout ratio from, say, 70% up to 78%. I know it's not a meaningful change, but it's noticeable. Anything you're willing to share in terms of how you think about dividends going forward from here? Do you want to keep it in that 70% to 78% range? Do you think it's more on the higher end going forward? Anything you're willing to share?

好的。非常好。其次，我的第二個問題是關於股利的。看起來你把支付率從 70% 提高到了 78%。我知道這不是什麼實質的變化，但確實很明顯。關於未來股利政策，您有什麼願意分享的看法嗎？你想把它保持在 70% 到 78% 的範圍內嗎？你認為它未來會更偏向高端市場嗎？有什麼願意分享的嗎？

Yeah. Thank you for that question, Omar. We were asked the same question last time, you remember that? And if we'll go [5 to 80], and I think we were supposed to say, yes, we'll get there. Luckily, we are there already this quarter.

是的。謝謝你的提問，奧馬爾。上次我們也被問過同樣的問題，你還記得嗎？如果我們從 5 到 80 達到目標，我想我們應該說，是的，我們會達到目標的。幸運的是，我們本季已經實現了這個目標。

That's not how we have designed our distribution policy. It's not designed to hit a PE or payout ratio. It's designed to distribute free liquidity we generate throughout the quarte r. But of course, it is correlated to our cash flow breakeven levels. And as they go down -- and I'm just taking the net working capital impact out of the equation.

我們的分銷政策並非如此設計的。它並非旨在達到特定的本益比或派息率。它旨在分配我們在整個季度中產生的免費流動性。當然，這與我們的現金流損益平衡點密切相關。隨著它們的下降——我只是把淨營運資本的影響排除在外。

But all that being equal, of course, as our cash flow breakeven decreases, the ability to pay out more, of course, increases likewise. So hopefully, we will look into some coming quarters where we can keep it at this level. Also, I think I alluded to last time potentially higher, but let's just call it these levels is very satisfactory. But it's not an aim we have on a payout ratio. It is the free liquidity we're generating that we are -- that is the outset of when we propose dividends to our Board and then they decide from that.

當然，在其他條件相同的情況下，隨著現金流量損益平衡點的降低，我們支付更多款項的能力自然也會隨之提高。所以，希望在接下來的幾個季度裡，我們能夠保持在這個水準。另外，我覺得我上次也暗示過可能會更高，但我們姑且認為目前的水平已經非常令人滿意了。但我們並沒有將派息率作為目標。我們所創造的自由流動性就是我們向董事會提出分紅方案的出發點，然後董事會根據該方案做出決定。

Okay, thank you. That's helpful. And then, last question, just in terms of the reported interest expense was a bit higher than the prior few quarters. I'm just wondering, is that an accounting treatment? Is that timing of a coupon payment?

好的，謝謝。那很有幫助。最後一個問題，就報告的利息支出而言，比前幾個季度略高。我只是想知道，這是會計處理方法嗎？這是優惠券的付款時間嗎？

No, it's the refinancing. So it's the account treatment of the refinance and the upfront -- or the fees that are generated there. So you're just hitting the way we did it.

不，是再融資。所以，這是對再融資和預付款的帳戶處理方式——或者說是由此產生的費用。所以你們只是在用我們之前的方法來打擊對手。

Yeah. Okay. So it smooths out kind of back to a more normalized level in 4Q?

是的。好的。所以到了第四季度，情況會逐漸好轉，恢復到更正常的水平嗎？

Definitely, we can have a talk about that, Omar, if you want some more details on that, but that's the accounting effect.

當然，奧馬爾，我們可以談談這件事，如果你想了解更多細節的話，但這就是會計效應。

(Operator Instructions) And at this time, there are no further questions. I will now turn the call back over to Jacob for closing remarks.

（操作說明）目前沒有其他問題了。現在我將把電話轉回給雅各布，請他作總結發言。

Yeah. Thank you, everyone, for listening to the Q3 2025 report from TORM. Have a great day.

是的。感謝各位收聽TORM發布的2025年第三季報告。祝你有美好的一天。

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與。您現在可以斷開連線了。