Torm PLC (TRMD) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

完整原文

使用警語:中文譯文來源為 Google 翻譯,僅供參考,實際內容請以英文原文為主

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Thank you for standing by. My name is Pam, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the TORM 2024 annual report conference call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

    感謝您的支持。我叫帕姆,今天我將擔任您的會議接線生。現在,我歡迎大家參加 TORM 2024 年度報告電話會議。所有線路均已靜音,以防止任何背景噪音。發言人發言後,將進行問答環節。(操作員指示)

  • Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference over to CEO, Jacob Meldgaard. You may begin.

    謝謝。現在,我想將會議交給執行長 Jacob Meldgaard。你可以開始了。

  • Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

    Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

  • Thank you. And a warm welcome to everyone joining us on the call here today. As you all know, this morning, we released our annual report for the full year of 2024. And I dare say that all in all, it was a very satisfactory year for TORM, but also a year that has demonstrated that we operate in a volatile industry influenced by a wide range of external factors that we need to take into consideration.

    謝謝。熱烈歡迎今天參加電話會議的各位。大家知道,今天早上我們發布了2024年全年年度報告。我敢說,總的來說,對於 TORM 來說,這是非常令人滿意的一年,但這一年也表明,我們所處的行業動盪不安,需要考慮到各種外部因素的影響。

  • As usual, I'll start with a few comments on our business and how we're doing. And then I will provide you with our take on the current market and how we see the development in the quarters to come.

    像往常一樣,我首先會對我們的業務和我們的經營狀況發表一些評論。然後我將向您提供我們對當前市場的看法以及我們對未來幾季發展的看法。

  • Looking back at the past year, we are pleased to report a very satisfactory performance with TCE earnings climbing to a new all-time high of $1.135 billion supported by the additions made to our fleet during the year. Freight rates remained at high levels throughout most of the first three quarters, enabling us to achieve fleet-wide rates of $39,626 per day. However, in the fourth quarter, freight rates decreased and the normal seasonal strengthening of the market did not materialize. Despite continuous vessel rerouting, volumes on long-haul voyages from east to west were lower and our fleet-wide rates decreased to $25,775 per day, thus adding to the downward trajectory seen from Q2 to Q3.

    回顧過去的一年,我們很高興地報告了我們非常令人滿意的業績,在年內新增船隊的推動下,TCE 收益攀升至 11.35 億美元的歷史新高。在前三個季度的大部分時間裡,運費一直保持在高位,使我們的全船隊運費達到每天 39,626 美元。然而,第四季運費下降,市場正常的季節性走強並未實現。儘管船舶不斷改變航線,但從東到西的長途航行量較低,我們整個船隊的運費降至每天 25,775 美元,從而加劇了第二季度到第三季度的下降趨勢。

  • While the rate levels in the last quarter were lower compared to the strong performance in the first three quarters of the year, we still delivered solid earnings. For the full year, we achieved a net profit of $612 million and a return on invested capital of 24.3%, demonstrating resilience despite a challenging market environment.

    儘管上一季的利率水準與今年前三個季度的強勁表現相比有所下降,但我們仍然實現了穩健的盈利。全年我們達到淨利 6.12 億美元,投資資本報酬率 24.3%,在充滿挑戰的市場環境下展現韌性。

  • Now, looking into 2025, the ever-changing nature of shipping presents both challenges and opportunities. Geopolitical developments, trade flow shifts, and oil demand fluctuate require that we continuously adapt our business. We remain confident in the factors that are within our own control. These include fleet efficiency, disciplined cost management, prudent capital management, and a well-executed commercial strategy. However, we acknowledge that geopolitical risk introduce a wide range of potential earnings outcome for the year ahead.

    現在,展望2025年,航運業的不斷變化既帶來了挑戰,也帶來了機會。地緣政治發展、貿易流變化和石油需求波動要求我們不斷調整業務。我們對自己能夠控制的因素仍然充滿信心。這些包括船隊效率、嚴格的成本管理、審慎的資本管理和執行良好的商業策略。然而,我們承認地緣政治風險將對未來一年的獲利結果產生廣泛的影響。

  • Beyond geopolitics, market condition would be shaped by trade disruptions, regulatory changes, and broader macroeconomic factors such as the global oil demand and economic growth trajectories. These variables would dictate both freight rates and fleet utilization. So to stay ahead, we continuously monitor and analyze geopolitical trends, ensuring we remain well-positioned to navigate uncertainties effectively.

    除了地緣政治因素外,市場狀況還會受到貿易中斷、監管變化以及全球石油需求和經濟成長軌跡等更廣泛的宏觀經濟因素的影響。這些變數將決定運費和船隊利用率。因此,為了保持領先地位,我們不斷監測和分析地緣政治趨勢,確保我們能夠有效應對不確定性。

  • Kindly turn to slide 5. For the past three years, geopolitical factors had driven product tanker rates to a new higher average level. However, in recent months, as already noted, we have seen a decline in rates as short-term factors such as intensified crude tanker cannibalization has softened the positive impact from geopolitical factors, and the general market uncertainty has increased. The rates have nevertheless remained at levels which are still strong in historical terms.

    請翻到投影片 5。過去三年來,地緣政治因素推動成品油輪運價創下新高。然而,如前文所述,近幾個月來,我們看到運費有所下降,因為原油輪拆解加劇等短期因素削弱了地緣政治因素帶來的正面影響,而且整體市場的不確定性增加。儘管如此,利率仍維持在歷史較高水準。

  • Please turn to slide 6. To conclude on the year 2024, we saw a very strong positive impact on tonne-miles from the Red Sea disruption which led to longer trading distances at the same time as growing oil demand and changes in the refinery landscape increased volume of products being transported. This positive tonne-mile effect was, however, front-loaded for product tankers, as after the first half of the year, crude tankers cleaning up in order to benefit from lucrative rates from transporting clean products from the east to the west via Cape of Good Hope took up most of the incremental tonne-miles. For full year 2024, clean product tanker tonne-miles increased by 9% in 2024. But due to this crude tanker clean-ups, product tankers benefited from only two-thirds of that. While crude cannibalization declined towards the end of the year, trade volumes on the routes mostly affected by the Red Sea disruption fell to levels that offset the longer trading distances. So with this, the tonne-mile impact of the Red Sea disruption in fact became non-existent by the start of this year.

    請翻到幻燈片 6。總結一下 2024 年,我們看到紅海中斷對噸英里產生了非常強烈的正面影響,導致貿易距離更長,同時石油需求的成長和煉油廠格局的變化增加了產品的運輸量。然而,這種積極的噸英里效應對成品油輪來說是前期就顯現出來的,因為在今年上半年之後,原油油輪為了從經由好望角從東方向西方運輸清潔產品中獲得豐厚的運費而進行清理,佔據了大部分增量噸英里。2024 年全年,成品油油輪噸哩數將增加 9%。但由於原油油輪清理工作,成品油油輪僅從中受益三分之二。儘管原油自給量在年底有所下降,但受紅海幹擾影響最大的航線的貿易量下降至抵消較長貿易距離的水平。因此,到今年年初,紅海中斷對噸英里的影響實際上已經不存在了。

  • Please turn to the next slide to slide 7, and I'll elaborate a bit more on that. So as the main trade route affected by the Red Sea disruption is from the Middle East to Europe, the outcome of the potential future Red Sea normalization really depends on this route. Currently, Europe's diesel imports are down by 30%, with especially flows from the Middle East affected. This has effectively pushed tonne-miles on this trade route down to pre-disruption levels although distances have increased.

    請翻到下一張投影片第 7 張,我將對此進行更詳細的說明。因此,由於受紅海中斷影響的主要貿易路線是從中東到歐洲,未來紅海正常化的結果實際上取決於這條路線。目前,歐洲柴油進口量下降了30%,尤其是來自中東的進口量受到影響。儘管距離有所增加,但這實際上已將該貿易路線的噸英里數推低至中斷之前的水平。

  • At the same time, we believe that such low import levels are not sustainable, especially taking into account the European diesel demand is expected to increase slightly this year supported by increased demand for diesel from the Mediterranean Emission Control Area, ECA, from May of this year. At the same time, three refineries will close down in northern Europe this year while diesel stocks are at below average levels.

    同時,我們認為如此低的進口水準是不可持續的,特別是考慮到今年歐洲柴油需求預計將略有增加,這得益於今年 5 月起地中海排放控制區 (ECA) 對柴油的需求增加。同時,北歐今年將有三家煉油廠關閉,而柴油庫存則低於平均值。

  • We expect that a potential reopening of the Red Sea passage will encourage intrabasin trade and return the volumes lost since the end of 2024. At the same time, incentives for crude clean-ups would decline. Even with shorter sailing distances, tonne-miles would stay at around the current levels with any upside to imports would add to products and tonne-miles. We deem it unlikely that the volumes would not increase as the current levels are unsustainable and any increase in imports needs to be met by the Middle East given refinery capacity closures in the U.S.

    我們預計,紅海航道的重新開放將促進流域內貿易,並恢復自 2024 年底以來的貿易量損失。同時,原油清理的動力也會下降。即使航行距離較短,噸英里數仍將保持在當前水平左右,而進口量的任何增加都將增加產品數量和噸英里數。我們認為進口量不太可能不增加,因為目前的水平是不可持續的,而且考慮到美國煉油廠產能關閉,任何進口量的增加都需要由中東來滿足。

  • Now please turn to the next slide, slide 8. This brings me to the conclusion that the impact of any potential reversal of the latest geopolitical factors will likely be less pronounced as much of the impact is currently non-existing. As I just explained, the potential Red Sea normalization could in fact be neutral for product tanker tonne-miles with an upside to this from potential increases in European diesel imports. Shorter trade distances may be offset by a potential return of currently low trade volumes and lower incentives for crude tanker clean-ups. Similarly, any potential easing of sanctions against Russia would not hit the product in the market by a full effect, as some of the gained tonne-miles have receded by now. Due to the uncertainty with regard to the prospects for ceasefire, we do not foresee a quick abolishment of EU sanctions against Russia.

    現在請翻到下一張投影片,第 8 張。這使我得出這樣的結論:最新地緣政治因素的任何潛在逆轉的影響可能不會那麼明顯,因為目前大部分影響還不存在。正如我剛才解釋的那樣,紅海航運恢復正常實際上可能對成品油輪噸英里數產生中性影響,而歐洲柴油進口量可能會帶來好處。較短的貿易距離可能會被目前較低的貿易量的潛在回歸和原油油輪清理的較低誘因所抵消。同樣,任何針對俄羅斯制裁的潛在放鬆都不會對市場上的產品造成全面打擊,因為部分增加的噸英里數現在已經減少。由於停火前景的不確定性,我們預計歐盟不會很快取消對俄羅斯的製裁。

  • And finally, we also have some new potential geopolitical drivers which could have a positive tonne-mile impact such as a potential tariff war between the U.S. and its closest neighbors, Canada and Mexico, leading to potentially new trade redirection towards longer distances.

    最後,我們還有一些新的潛在地緣政治驅動因素,這些因素可能會對噸英里產生積極影響,例如美國與其近鄰加拿大和墨西哥之間可能發生的關稅戰,從而可能導致貿易轉向更長距離。

  • Now please turn to slide 9. So let me now also take a look at the tonne-supply side. As we pointed out earlier, the relatively high product order book should be seen in combination with the fact that the average age of the fleet is the highest in two decades. With 15% of the fleet being more than 20 years old, this will potentially offset a large part of the fleet growth in the coming years. Furthermore, we see that as vessels turn towards 20 years of age, their average utilization drops significantly compared to younger vessels. That would lead to a growing share of the fleet operating at lower utilization. And in addition, a large share of especially the older feet is sanctioned which is expected to support exits from the market. This is especially the case for the combined LR2 Aframax A2FX fleet where almost three-quarters of the older fleet are today under U.S. sanctions.

    現在請翻到第 9 張投影片。現在讓我也來看看噸位供應方面。正如我們之前指出的,產品訂單量相對較高應該結合船隊平均船齡達到二十年來最高水平這一事實來看。由於 15% 的船隊船齡超過 20 年,這可能會抵消未來幾年船隊成長的很大一部分。此外,我們發現,隨著船舶船齡接近20年,其平均利用率與年輕船舶相比大幅下降。這將導致越來越多的船隊以較低的利用率運作。此外,很大一部分企業,尤其是老企業,受到了製裁,預計這將支持企業退出市場。對於 LR2 Aframax A2FX 合併船隊來說尤其如此,目前該船隊中近四分之三的舊船隊受到美國制裁。

  • We'll now turn to slide 10. To sum up on the market, geopolitics are expected to drive the products and market also this year, on top of the demand and supply fundamentals. Yet the level of uncertainty is even higher and the speed of change has increased significantly with the new U.S. administration's more aggressive approach to geopolitics and trade policy.

    我們現在翻到第 10 張投影片。總結市場狀況,除了供需基本面之外,地緣政治因素也預計今年將推動產品和市場的發展。然而,隨著美國新政府對地緣政治和貿易政策採取更強硬的方針,不確定性水平更高,變化速度顯著加快。

  • I already touched upon potential normalization of the Red Sea situation, potential easing of sanctions against Russia, and the proposed tariffs on oil from Canada and Mexico. Another element of uncertainty on the market stems from the U.S. administration's proposal to implement a port fee to operators with vessels built or on order in China.

    我已經談到了紅海局勢可能正常化、對俄羅斯制裁可能放鬆以及對加拿大和墨西哥石油徵收關稅的提議。市場上另一個不確定因素源自於美國政府提議向在中國建造或訂購船舶的業者徵收港口費。

  • On the other hand, the new U.S. administration's more tough approach towards Iran and Venezuela is expected to benefit the product on the market via the reduced risk of crude cannibalization.

    另一方面,美國新政府對伊朗和委內瑞拉採取更強硬的態度,預計將透過降低原油蠶食風險使市場上的產品受益。

  • I'm certain that TORM is well-positioned to navigate in this environment of increased uncertainty through our strong capital structure, operational leverage, and integrated platform.

    我確信,憑藉我們強大的資本結構、營運槓桿和整合平台,TORM 完全有能力在這種不確定性日益增加的環境中順利前進。

  • And now here with these comments, I conclude my part of the presentation. I hand it over to my colleague, Kim, who will walk us through the financials.

    現在,基於這些評論,我將結束我的演講部分。我把它交給我的同事 Kim,他將向我們介紹財務狀況。

  • Kim Balle - Chief Financial Officer

    Kim Balle - Chief Financial Officer

  • Thank you, Jacob. Now please turn to slide 12 for an overview of the financials. In the fourth quarter, TCE amounted to $215 million and based on this, we achieved $142 million in EBITDAand $77 million in net profit. Fleet-wide, we averaged TCE rates of close to $26,000 per day, with LR2 slightly above $34,000 and LR1 at over $22,000 and MR at more than $23,000. These numbers are in line with the coverage that we published in connection with our Q3 results, covered with the lowest spot rates in the last half of November and the month of December, thus in line with our overall guidance communicated back in November.

    謝謝你,雅各。現在請翻到第 12 張投影片來查看財務概況。第四季度,TCE達到2.15億美元,在此基礎上,我們實現了1.42億美元的EBITDA和7,700萬美元的淨利。在整個船隊中,我們的平均 TCE 費率接近每天 26,000 美元,其中 LR2 略高於 34,000 美元,LR1 超過 22,000 美元,MR 超過 23,000 美元。這些數字與我們發布的第三季業績相符,涵蓋了 11 月下半月和 12 月的最低現貨價格,因此與我們 11 月傳達的整體指導相符。

  • For the full-year 2024, we've generated TCE of $1.135 billion, EBITDA of $851 million, and net profit of $612 million. As you can see on the right side of the table, full-year 2024 rates were close to the elevated levels we saw in 2023. However, the composition of these rates tells a more nuanced story. The high annual rates were largely driven by exceptionally strong market conditions in the first half of the year, tight supply demand fundamentals, and favorable trade patterns supported elevated spot rates during this period.

    2024 年全年,我們的 TCE 為 11.35 億美元,EBITDA 為 8.51 億美元,淨利潤為 6.12 億美元。正如您在表格右側看到的,2024 年全年費率接近我們在 2023 年看到的高水準。然而,這些利率的組成卻揭示了一個更微妙的故事。年率高企主要是因為上半年市場環境異常強勁,供需基本面緊張,而有利的貿易模式支撐了這段期間現貨價格上漲。

  • In contrast, Q3 saw some softening reflecting cannibalization by crude carriers that captured a significant part of the additional tonne line demand. While rates remained healthy, they trended lower compared to the earlier part of the year. The fourth quarter brought an additional setback with no seasonal upswing and rates declined further. Due to the industry's natural spot exposure, our earnings per share are closely tied to movements in freight rates, and this dynamic becomes especially evident in a very volatile market environment.

    相較之下,第三季有所疲軟,反映出原油運輸船的蠶食,佔據了額外噸位線需求的很大一部分。儘管利率保持健康,但與今年稍早相比呈下降趨勢。第四季再次遭遇挫折,沒有出現季節性上漲,利率進一步下降。由於該行業天然的現貨風險,我們的每股盈餘與運費變動密切相關,這種動態在非常動盪的市場環境中尤其明顯。

  • In Q4, we experienced a sharp decline in freight rates which had a direct and material impact on our earnings per share. Thus, basic earnings per share for Q4 decreased to $0.77 per share compared to $2.18 per share in the same period last year. This time, our Board of Directors have declared a dividend of $0.60per share. We believe that our approach ensures that distributions aligned with actual financial performance, maintaining a disciplined, transparent, and sustainable capital allocation strategy.

    第四季度,我們的運費大幅下降,這對我們的每股盈餘產生了直接重大影響。因此,第四季每股基本收益從去年同期的每股 2.18 美元下降至每股 0.77 美元。此次,我們的董事會宣布派發每股 0.60 美元的股息。我們相信,我們的方法可確保分配與實際財務表現保持一致,並保持嚴謹、透明和可持續的資本配置策略。

  • Slide 13, please. This slide provides a clear overview of our top line performance for the full-year 2024 compared to 2023 as well as the quarter-by-quarter development throughout the year. The numbers illustrate how the strong markets in the first half of the year gave way to softer conditions in the last half of the year impacting overall performance.

    請翻閱第 13 張投影片。這張投影片清楚概述了我們 2024 年全年與 2023 年相比的營收表現以及全年逐季的發展。這些數字表明,上半年的強勁市場已讓位於下半年的疲軟狀況,從而影響了整體表現。

  • Fleet-wide rates remained elevated in the first half of the year, hovering above $40,000 a day. However, as we moved into Q3, rates started to decline and this trend accelerated further in Q4. This reflects broader market softening due to the positive tonne-mile impact from the Red Sea disruption, diminishing as crude tanker shifted back to dirty trades and the trade volumes on affected routes declined, effectively neutralizing the earlier gains. While fleetwide rates declined by about 40% from Q1 to Q4, our TCE saw a smaller decline of 35%. This demonstrates the positive impact of our fleet expansion and operational efficiency.

    今年上半年,全船的租金仍居高不下,徘徊在每天 4 萬美元以上。然而,隨著進入第三季度,利率開始下降,並且這一趨勢在第四季度進一步加速。這反映出,由於紅海中斷對噸英里數產生了積極影響,導致市場普遍走軟,但隨著原油油輪轉回重油貿易,受影響航線的貿易量下降,這種影響逐漸減弱,從而有效抵消了早先的漲幅。雖然從第一季到第四季度,全船運價下降了約 40%,但我們的 TCE 降幅較小,為 35%。這體現了我們機隊擴張和營運效率的正面影響。

  • EBITDA amounted to $142 million in Q4, and as a reminder, everything else being equal, a change in daily freight rates of $10,000 translate into an EBITDA impact of approximately plus/minus $80 million for a quarter based on approximately 8,000 earning days in a quarter. This illustrates the significant earnings sensitivity to market movements which is a key consideration for our financial outlook.

    第四季的 EBITDA 達到 1.42 億美元,需要提醒的是,在其他條件相同的情況下,每日運費變化 10,000 美元將對 EBITDA 產生約正負 8000 萬美元的影響,以一個季度約 8,000 個盈利日計算。這表明獲利對市場趨勢非常敏感,這是我們財務前景的關鍵考慮因素。

  • Please turn to slide 14. Likewise, on this slide, we provide a breakdown of the quarterly development in net profit and key share related ratios. The key factor to note is that the total number of shares increased by around $10 million over the year. The decline in freight rates has translated into a corresponding downward trend in net profit, earnings per share, and dividend per share. This is a direct consequence of the softer market conditions seen in the latter half of the year.

    請翻到第 14 張投影片。同樣,在這張投影片上,我們提供了淨利潤和主要股票相關比率的季度發展情況的細目分類。需要注意的關鍵因素是,今年股票總數增加了約 1,000 萬美元。運費的下降導致淨利、每股盈餘、每股股息也呈現相應的下降趨勢。這是下半年市場環境疲軟的直接後果。

  • As in previous quarters, our dividend policy remains unchanged. We continue to distribute (inaudible) on a quarterly basis while maintaining a prudent financial buffer. Our threshold liquidity level is determined by two key factors. First, a fixed liquidity requirement of $1.8 million per vessel; and second, a discretionary element set by the board. This discretionary component considers our capital structure, future obligations, and broader market trends to ensure a balanced approach to capital allocation. Consequently, the payout ratio for Q4 is 75%.

    與前幾季一樣,我們的股利政策保持不變。我們繼續按季度分配(聽不清楚),同時保持審慎的財務緩衝。我們的閾值流動性水準由兩個關鍵因素決定。第一,每艘船固定流動資金要求180萬美元;第二,董事會設定的自由裁量權。這個自由裁量部分考慮了我們的資本結構、未來義務和更廣泛的市場趨勢,以確保平衡的資本配置方法。因此,第四季的派息率為 75%。

  • Slide 15, please. As shown on this slide, these values have been on a steady upward trajectory over recent quarters, but saw a decline in the fourth quarter to $3.6 billion with an average broker valuation down 4.6% relative to the end of 2023. on the chart in the middle, we highlight the development of our net interest-bearing debt which now stands at $948 million against $773 million a year ago. This increase reflects our fee expansion over the past year. Despite this, our net loans value remains stable at 26.8% in line with the same quarter last year, ensuring a conservative financial foundation as we move forward.

    請翻閱第 15 張投影片。如本投影片所示,這些價值在最近幾季一直呈穩定上升趨勢,但第四季有所下降,至 36 億美元,平均經紀商估值較 2023 年底下降 4.6%。在中間的圖表中,我們重點介紹了淨計息債務的發展情況,目前為 9.48 億美元,而去年同期為 7.73 億美元。這一增長反映了我們過去一年的費用擴張。儘管如此,我們的淨貸款價值仍保持穩定,為 26.8%,與去年同期持平,確保了我們未來發展的保守財務基礎。

  • Additionally, in the chart to the right side, we provide an overview of the debt maturity profile. This year, we have only borrowings of $168 million maturing and committed to our installations of $12 million. Beyond 2026, our obligations remain relatively modest until our larger loan matures in mid-2029. Overall, our financial position remains strong, allowing us to manage our commitments while maintaining flexibility for future risks and opportunities.

    此外,在右側​​的圖表中,我們提供了債務到期狀況的概述。今年,我們只有 1.68 億美元的借款到期,並承諾分期償還 1,200 萬美元。2026 年以後,我們的債務仍將保持相對適度,直到 2029 年中期我們的較大貸款到期。總體而言,我們的財務狀況仍然強勁,使我們能夠管理我們的承諾,同時保持對未來風險和機會的靈活性。

  • And now please turn to slide 16. As already shown on slide 12, based on the quarterly results, the Board of Directors has declared a Q4 2024 dividend of $0.60 per share which corresponds to a payout ratio of 75%. Also on this slide, we provide a full overview of the key dates. The ex-dividend date for shares on Nasdaq Copenhagen is set for March 19; while on Nasdaq New York, it will be on March 20. And record date will be on March 20; and payment date will be on April 2.

    現在請翻到第 16 張投影片。如投影片 12 所示,根據季度業績,董事會宣布 2024 年第四季股息為每股 0.60 美元,相當於股息率為 75%。此外,在這張投影片上,我們提供了關鍵日期的完整概述。納斯達克哥本哈根股票的除息日定於3月19日;而在納斯達克紐約,這日期是3月20日。登記日期為3月20日;付款日期為4月2日。

  • And now turn to size 17. In the annual report that we have published this morning, we are taking a significant step forward in our sustainability reporting, placing transparency at the core to provide stakeholders with a clearer view of our priorities. With the implementation of the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive, we are refining how we communicate our corporate responsibilities. This framework strengthens our ability to report on material impacts, risks, and opportunities across environmental, social, and governance factors. And I encourage you all to have a look at this.

    現在轉到尺寸 17。在我們今天早上發布的年度報告中,我們在永續發展報告方面邁出了重要一步,將透明度置於核心位置,以便利害關係人更清楚地了解我們的優先事項。隨著《企業永續發展報告指令》的實施,我們正在改進傳達企業責任的方式。此框架增強了我們報告環境、社會和治理因素的重大影響、風險和機會的能力。我鼓勵大家看看這個。

  • Our approach to sustainability includes clear measurable targets across safety, diversity, and carbon intensity reduction. Starting with safety, our key performance indicator is long-term accident frequency which tracks accidents per 1 million exposure hours. In 2024 we achieved an LTAF of 0.42 and although this number is very sensitive to single accidents, we will continue working towards further improvements. On gender diversity and leadership, we are committed to increase women in leadership positions to 35% by 2030. Lastly, on carbon intensity reduction, we are well on track. By the end of 2024, we reached our 40% reduction target, thus already now meeting the IMO 2030 target.

    我們的永續發展方法包括在安全性、多樣性和降低碳強度方面製定明確可衡量的目標。從安全開始,我們的關鍵績效指標是長期事故頻率,即追蹤每 100 萬小時暴露時間發生的事故。2024 年,我們的 LTAF 達到了 0.42,儘管這個數字對單一事故非常敏感,但我們將繼續努力進一步改進。在性別多元化和領導力方面,我們致力於在 2030 年將女性領導職位比例提高到 35%。最後,在降低碳強度方面,我們進展順利。到了 2024 年底,我們實現 40% 的減排目標,因此達到 IMO 2030 的目標。

  • Looking ahead, we remain committed to our next ambitious 2030 goal of a 45% reduction and ultimately to achieve net zero CO2 emissions from our fleet by 2050. Sustainability remains a core part of our long term strategy, and we will continue taking decisive actions in these areas. We have set new ESG targets for 2024, reinforcing our commitment to reducing CO2 emissions, enhancing staff safety, and improving gender diversity and leadership. These actions demonstrate our dedication to making a changeable impact while creating long-term value for stakeholders.

    展望未來,我們將繼續致力於實現下一個雄心勃勃的 2030 年目標,即減少 45%,並最終在 2050 年實現我們船隊的二氧化碳淨零排放。永續性仍然是我們長期策略的核心部分,我們將繼續在這些領域採取果斷行動。我們為 2024 年設定了新的 ESG 目標,加強了我們對減少二氧化碳排放、提高員工安全以及改善性別多樣性和領導力的承諾。這些行動顯示我們致力於產生實際的影響,同時為利害關係人創造長期價值。

  • And now please turn to slide 18 for the outlook. We forecast TCE earnings of $650 million to $950 million against the 2024 actuals of $1.135 million and EBITDA of $350 million to $650 million against the 2024 actuals of $851 million. This reflects expectations of lower freight rates year-on-year based on current spot and forward market trends. Based on our rates and coverage as of March 2025, we had fixed a total of 84% of our earning days at $26,612 per day in the first quarter across the field. Likewise, for the full 2025, we have fixed a total of 27% of our earning days at $28,916 per day for the full year across the fleet.

    現在請翻到第 18 張投影片來了解展望。我們預測 TCE 收益為 6.5 億至 9.5 億美元,而 2024 年的實際收益為 113.5 萬美元;EBITDA 為 3.5 億至 6.5 億美元,而 2024 年的實際收益為 8.51 億美元。這反映了根據當前現貨和遠期市場趨勢,對運費年減的預期。根據截至 2025 年 3 月的費率和覆蓋範圍,我們在第一季已將整個油田的 84% 的收入天數固定為每天 26,612 美元。同樣,對於 2025 年全年而言,我們已將整個船隊的全年盈利天數固定為 27%,即每天 28,916 美元。

  • And with this, I conclude my remarks and hand back to the operator.

    至此,我的發言結束,並將電話交還給接線員。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

    謝謝。我們現在開始問答環節。(操作員指示)

  • Jon Chappell, Evercore.

    喬恩‧查佩爾 (Jon Chappell),Evercore。

  • Jonathan Chappell - Analyst

    Jonathan Chappell - Analyst

  • Thank you. Good afternoon. Jacob, we've seen your strategy over the last three years with the elevated market, with the fleet replenishment, selling of the older vessels, even the dividend policy. As we enter this year, I guess, we're well into this year at this point with a lot more uncertainty, a lower starting point. How does that strategy change, if at all, as it relates to both operations and fleet evolution as well as capital structure and capital return?

    謝謝。午安.雅各布,我們看到了您過去三年來的策略,包括市場上漲、船隊補充、老舊船隻出售,甚至股息政策。當我們進入今年時,我想,我們已經進入了今年,面臨更多的不確定性,起點較低。該策略與營運和船隊發展以及資本結構和資本回報有何變化?

  • Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

    Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

  • Thanks for that question, Jon. So I will answer a little more detail, but I think the short end of it is that there's no change. So if I just take it one by one on operation. As I alluded to also in my prepared remarks, we do see the geopolitics and the associated change obviously still front and center as it has been over the last three years. I think the difference is really the speed with which we at least perceive that we can potentially have these changes coming to us. And what you need on an operational platform in that scenario of, I would say, from the outside that the playbook is changed and redefined is to have agility and it is to be prepared for all scenarios. And there, I really think that the value of an integrated company is in that scenario as we deem it the very best you can have. Because we will be able to redefine, say, our operational optimal way of setting it up with a very short notice. So that's number one. I don't expect us to change anything there.

    謝謝你的提問,喬恩。因此我會回答得更詳細一些,但我認為簡而言之,沒有變化。所以如果我只是逐一進行操作的話。正如我在準備好的發言中提到的那樣,我們確實看到地緣政治和相關變化顯然仍然處於中心地位,就像過去三年一樣。我認為,真正的區別在於我們至少感知到這些變化可能降臨到我們身上的速度。我想說,在這種情況下,在操作平台上你需要的是靈活性,即劇本從外部改變並重新定義,並為所有情況做好準備。我確實認為,綜合性公司的價值就在於此,因為我們認為這是最好的情況。因為我們將能夠在很短的時間內重新定義我們的最佳操作設定方式。這是第一點。我不指望我們能改變那裡的任何事情。

  • Then on fleet. It's not been part of the present day, but you should see that it's more of the same. I think the testament to that is that we did, after the end of the year and we have announced as a subsequent event, we have sold, again, three older vintage vessels, the three MRs built in 2005, in a marketplace where the dynamic clearly has been that the liquidity in the market has been relatively lower because of the uncertainties. But we have been able to stick to our strategy around maintaining a fleet where the average age is in line and at a par with the global product tanker fleet. But where we can utilize them all the way up to, you can say, of course, it depends a little on the specific of the vessel, but in this case, up until the year of 20s. And again, that fleet strategy will not change. We are going to look at that. We have not experienced that we cannot execute on that particular strategy. And you can say, of course, if it is the other way, if it would be inbound, we should have vessels coming to our feet, we are also ready for that when and if the right circumstances are there.

    然後上艦隊。它不是現在的一部分,但你應該看到它與現在大同小異。我認為,證明這一點的是,在年底之後,我們確實在後續活動中宣布,我們再次出售了三艘老式船舶,即 2005 年建造的三艘 MR 型船舶,而當時的市場動態顯然是由於不確定性,市場流動性相對較低。但我們能夠堅持我們的策略,即維持一支平均船齡與全球成品油油輪船隊持平的船隊。但我們可以一直利用它們,當然,這有點取決於船隻的具體情況,但在這種情況下,可以一直利用到 1920 年代。再次強調,該艦隊戰略不會改變。我們將對此進行研究。我們還沒有經歷過無法執行該特定戰略的情況。當然,你可以說,如果情況相反,如果是入境,我們應該有船隻停靠,如果情況合適,我們也已做好準備。

  • And then on our strategy on our financials, again, really no change. I think we've demonstrated also here with the way that we pay out for this quarter $0.60. I think Kim and I and the rest of management, we all feel very comfortable with our capital structure, with the leverage. And we're still maintaining strategically the same (inaudible) around the use of excess capital to be paid out. Obviously, there may be circumstances where you would argue that it gets so compelling to buy back shares, but it's not really been the (inaudible). And I think it would have to be a real special circumstance if we were to look at that as a tool in the toolbox. So for now, I would argue you should expect more of the same.

    然後,關於我們的財務策略,實際上沒有什麼改變。我想我們也已經在這裡證明了我們本季支付 0.60 美元的方式。我認為 Kim 和我以及其他管理人員都對我們的資本結構和槓桿感到非常滿意。我們在使用過剩資本支付方面仍保持相同的策略(聽不清楚)。顯然,在某些情況下,你可能會認為回購股票是如此引人注目,但實際上並非如此(聽不清楚)。我認為,如果我們將其視為工具箱中的一種工具,那將是一種真正特殊的情況。因此就目前而言,我認為你應該期待更多相同的事情。

  • Jonathan Chappell - Analyst

    Jonathan Chappell - Analyst

  • Great. I appreciate that answer. My second one relates a little bit more to the market. You mentioned the crude cannibalization, so to speak, and that kind of reversing entering this year. Kind of a two-parter. Where do we sit today on crude encroaching on traditional product trades, maybe relative to the peak of the second half of last year? And then I guess, bigger picture, is it just becoming more easier? I guess we're always under the impression, it was difficult for a cruise ship to get into the product trade, several voyages, process of slowly cleaning up via the cargo. Has it just become easier that you can go back and forth between crude and product and we should look for that impact and volatility going forward?

    偉大的。我很感謝這個回答。我的第二個問題與市場更相關一些。您提到了所謂的粗暴蠶食以及今年出現的那種逆轉。有點像兩集劇。目前,原油對傳統產品貿易的侵蝕程度與去年下半年的高峰相比如何?然後我想,從更大的角度來看,它是否變得更容易了?我想我們一直都有這樣的印象,遊輪很難進入產品貿易,需要幾次航行,透過貨物慢慢清理的過程。在原油和產品之間來回轉換是否變得更容易了,我們應該在未來尋找這種影響和波動性嗎?

  • Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

    Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

  • I'll do it in reverse order, if it's okay. You've been around -- maybe I've not been around maybe as long as you have. I've only been in the product tanker business 15 years. But I think what we are raised with in shipping is that crude tankers, they carry crude, and as you point to, it really -- it is possible to carry clean, but it's not really what you want to do, not as a ship owner with the risk associated and also not as the customer because you sort of have the risk of contamination of your cargo and it will be devalued on arrival. All these operational hindrances leading to that we have actually not, over the last 30 years, been able to observe that you had existing vessels in crued that cleaned up. You will see, first voyage, after you come out of the yard as a newbuild, yes. And maybe even more than one voyage, but it's really been a change of (inaudible) to see that this go in and out of the trade, as you point to.

    如果可以的話,我會按相反的順序進行。你一直在我身邊——也許我可能沒有你身邊那麼久。我從事成品油輪事業才15年。但我認為,我們在航運中所學到的是,原油油輪運載原油,正如你所指出的,它確實可以運輸清潔原油,但這並不是你真正想做的,作為船東不會這樣做,因為這有相關風險;作為客戶也不會這樣做,因為你的貨物有被污染的風險,而且貨物在抵達時會貶值。所有這些操作上的障礙導致我們在過去 30 年裡實際上沒有能夠觀察到現有的船隻進行清理。是的,當您作為一艘新船駛出船廠後,第一次航行時,您就會看到。甚至可能不止一次航行,但正如您所指出的,這確實是一個(聽不清)變化,以看到這種貿易的進出。

  • And now I'll come to -- our reflection is that it is actually the circumstances around the Red Sea and the impact that you, in a way, have a new trade between Middle East and Europe with diesel that only came about in 2022 in bigger volumes because until then, most of the needs of Europe was served by Russian diesel. So that's the first component.

    現在我要說的是——我們的反思是,這實際上是紅海周圍的環境及其影響,在某種程度上,中東和歐洲之間出現了一種新的柴油貿易,這種貿易直到 2022 年才出現更大的規模,因為在此之前,歐洲的大部分需求都是由俄羅斯柴油滿足的。這是第一個組成部分。

  • Well, then you look further away and then you take diesel, as we all know, you take it then from (inaudible) with U.S. into Europe. And then your second option would be to then replenish the balance from the Middle East. So that was the first thing that happened in 2022 and continued into 2024. But then, of course, at the beginning of 2024, 70% of product decided that it was not a safe option to transit through (inaudible) Strait and to go to that route. That meant that certainly, the LR2 market that was servicing this diesel in '22, '23 and 24 for the first time, they became, you can say, at par with a Suezmax or a VLCC on the particular routing that you did. Because before, a VLCC would have to go Cape of Good Hope and (inaudible). But the LR2 would do the, you can say, the Suez Canal and save 12 days, so it was on a (inaudible) basis. It was significantly cheaper to do the transportation on an LR2 than a (inaudible).

    好吧,那麼你看得更遠一些,然後你拿柴油來說,眾所周知,你把它從(聽不清楚)美國運到歐洲。那麼你的第二個選擇就是從中東補充平衡。這是 2022 年發生的第一件事,並持續到 2024 年。但是,當然,在 2024 年初,70% 的產品決定通過(聽不清楚)海峽並採取該路線並不是一個安全的選擇。這意味著,在 22、23 和 24 年首次為這種柴油提供服務的 LR2 市場,可以說,在您所走的特定航線上,它們的地位與蘇伊士型油輪或 VLCC 相當。因為以前,一艘 VLCC 必須先去好望角,然後(聽不清楚)。但是 LR2 可以穿越蘇伊士運河並節省 12 天,所以這是基於(聽不清楚)的。使用 LR2 進行運輸比使用(聽不清楚)。

  • But what happened is obviously that the freight rate in the first half of '24 per tonne for an LR2 to carry diesel became so high that it was relevant for the traders to think, well, this product, diesel in itself is less risky around contamination than, for instance, gasoline or jet fuel. So it was product specific and it was the trade lane specific (inaudible) of that the small vessels and the big vessels would travel the same distance. And you would therefore call for, you can say, that size matters and that scale of the business was there.

    但顯然,2017 年上半年 LR2 型油輪運載柴油的運費為每噸 24 美元,漲幅如此之高,以致交易員開始認為,柴油這種產品本身的污染風險比汽油或航空燃料等要小。因此,它是針對特定產品的,也是針對特定貿易航線的(聽不清楚),小型船隻和大型船隻將航行相同的距離。因此,你可以說,規模很重要,業務規模就在那裡。

  • So this is -- I don't think any of us could have played out, let's say ,10 years ago that we had the discussion will crude tanker cannibalize. Well, you would need to see something akin to this before you could imagine it, i.e., a product that is less risky in high volumes going between, how can I say, ports that are well developed. And that's exactly what you have. (inaudible) refiners come on stream being relatively modern. You have the receiving infrastructure in Europe being some of the largest ports, so you could substitute. And then what you have left is actually only the operational thing about the clean-up.

    所以這是──我想我們任何人都不可能想像,比如說,10 年前我們就討論過原油油輪是否會被拆解。好吧,你需要先看到類似的東西才能想像它,也就是說,一種在成熟港口之間大批量運輸時風險較小的產品,怎麼說呢。這正是你所擁有的。 (聽不清楚)煉油廠投入使用,相對比較現代化。歐洲的接收基礎設施是一些最大的港口之一,因此您可以進行替代。那麼剩下的其實就只剩下清理工作的操作了。

  • So, to my point here or your question is that it is something that can occur when you have, but I don't think it's something that I would put into my forward thinking. Of course, in the circumstance I just described and something like that, yes. But in general, this is not going to be it. Right now, we see that 3% of CPP on water is on VS and Suezmaxes. At the peak in September last year, it was 8%. And we think that this, let's say, 3% is more what we would calculate as being a normalized level.

    所以,我的觀點或你的問題是,當你擁有它時,它可能會發生的事情,但我不認為這是我會納入前瞻性思考的事情。當然,在我剛才描述的情況以及類似的情況下,是的。但總的來說,情況並非如此。目前,我們看到水上 CPP 的 3% 是在 VS 和蘇伊士型油輪上。去年9月的峰值為8%。我們認為,這個 3% 更符合我們計算的正常水準。

  • Jonathan Chappell - Analyst

    Jonathan Chappell - Analyst

  • Great. That was all very helpful. I appreciate it, Jacob. Thank you.

    偉大的。這一切都非常有幫助。我很感激,雅各。謝謝。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Omar Nokta, Jefferies.

    傑富瑞的奧馬爾諾克塔 (Omar Nokta)。

  • Omar Nokta - Analyst

    Omar Nokta - Analyst

  • Thank you. Hey guys. Good afternoon. Just a couple for me. Obviously, you've given a wide guidance range for the year, it makes sense, beginning or early in the year, and the spot market. And you outlined all the geopolitics and bit of the uncertainty. But just maybe in terms of, say, seasonality, wanted to get your sense of how you're thinking about that now. Any kind of ideas or how you think seasonality is going to play out here, not perhaps throughout all of '25, but maybe in the first half? Is there anything that you could see at the moment, that suggests there's a shift in how seasonality is going to be given, obviously, there's a lot of uncertainty and geopolitics is probably factoring into the seasonality also. But just any sense of how you think the market's going to be shifting here in the coming months?

    謝謝。嘿,大家好。午安.對我來說只有一對。顯然,您為今年給出了廣泛的指導範圍,這是有道理的,無論是年初還是現貨市場。您概述了所有的地緣政治和一些不確定性。但也許就季節性而言,我想了解您現在對此有何看法。您有什麼想法或認為季節性因素會如何發揮作用,也許不是在整個 25 年,但也許是在上半年?目前您是否看到什麼跡象表明季節性將發生轉變?顯然,存在著許多不確定性,地緣政治因素也可能是影響季節性的因素。但是您認為未來幾個月市場將如何變化?

  • Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

    Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

  • I think we will have to -- I think that currently, we are more observant about the items that I described around geopolitics. I mean, another key that I think will impact our marketing directly is of course the OpEx plus. We've not mentioned this. Some of these things will be a higher prioritization for us to try and understand what takes place rather than the seasonality because over the long term, there is seasonality, but in the last year, it's actually differed. And I don't have a particular view on how it will play out for this year to be, honestly, Omar.

    我認為我們必須——我認為目前,我們對我所描述的地緣政治問題更加關注。我的意思是,我認為另一個會直接影響我們行銷的關鍵當然是 OpEx plus。我們還沒提到這一點。我們會優先考慮其中一些事情,以便我們嘗試了解究竟發生了什麼,而不是季節性,因為從長期來看,季節性是存在的,但在去年,情況實際上有所不同。說實話,奧馬爾,我對今年的局勢發展沒有特別的看法。

  • Omar Nokta - Analyst

    Omar Nokta - Analyst

  • That's fair. I appreciate it, at least, given some of that context. And I guess maybe, I know it's still fresh and it's early days, but the U.S. proposal of taxing Chinese tonnage. Just want to get a sense from you or say, for TORM, has that affected anything and how you're doing business, whether how you think about allocating vessels into the U.S. market or holding onto ships that are Chinese built or contemplating new buildings? Has there been any shift or thought of changes as a result of that?

    這很公平。至少,考慮到某些背景,我對此表示感謝。我想也許,我知道這只是個開始,還處於早期階段,但美國提出了對中國船舶徵稅的提議。只是想從您那裡了解一下,或者說,對於 TORM 來說,這是否影響了什麼以及您的經營方式,無論您如何考慮將船舶分配到美國市場或保留中國建造的船舶或考慮建造新船?由此是否發生了任何轉變或改變的想法?

  • Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

    Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

  • Well, that's a good question. I mean, if we looked a little up above in the product tanker market, our count is that about 26% of the total product tanker fleet is Chinese built and around 70%, maybe even a little higher, are the newbuilds. And if you read the material, the proposals that have come out which we'll be hearing here end of the month, it is both -- you can actually, I would say, get a fee based on both your percentage on the (inaudible) and on your order book. And if we take it at a tonne level, we are at 41% after the latest sale of vessels. Chinese ratio is 41% and we have zero newbuild. But we also, of course, (inaudible) zero China build. So if we take it for us, it would really be that currently, the U.S. trade is approximately 20% of our overall trade and it would really be a question of whether the costs associated with the potential fee on our vessels given our ratio would make sense for us or whether we would redirect our vessels currently.

    嗯,這是個好問題。我的意思是,如果我們看一下成品油輪市場,我們會發現大約有 26% 的成品油輪船隊是中國建造的,而新建油輪的比例約為 70%,甚至可能更高。如果你讀過這些資料,就會知道我們已經發布了提案,我們將在月底聽到這些提案,它們都是——我想說,你實際上可以根據你在(聽不清楚)和訂單簿上的百分比獲得費用。如果我們以噸位來計算,那麼在最近一次船舶出售後,我們的佔比達到了 41%。中國船舶比例為 41%,且新建船舶為零。但是,我們當然也沒有(聽不清楚)中國建設。因此,如果我們接受這一點,那麼目前美國貿易實際上約占我們整體貿易的 20%,而真正的問題是,考慮到我們的比例,與我們的船隻潛在費用相關的成本是否對我們來說是合理的,或者我們是否會改變我們目前的船隻航線。

  • We don't have any plans, but I think coming back to my point a little before, that I think an integrated platform like ourselves where actually we have, I would say, the highest degree of flexibility about where we maneuver our fees, I'm comfortable in saying that I think that this will be something that I would rather be without. I think it's going to be costly for the refiners and for that industry. But how it will all play out whether you will have lower U.S. volumes because it will simply not make sense for the U.S. refiners to, I would say, crack their oil and have refined products which is not competitive in the global market because all landed costs for the product plus insurance plus rate will be non-competitive compared to others and that others will then raise. I think that dynamic is yet to be seen. and we will, basically, just again be a receiver of that and maneuver in it.

    我們沒有任何計劃,但我想回到我之前的觀點,我認為像我們這樣的綜合平台實際上我們在調整費用方面擁有最高程度的靈活性,我可以很輕鬆地說,我認為這是我寧願沒有的東西。我認為這對煉油商和整個產業來說都將是代價高昂的。但這一切又將如何發展呢?美國的產量是否會下降?因為對於美國煉油廠來說,我認為,裂解石油並精煉產品是沒有意義的,因為與其他產品相比,產品的所有到岸成本加上保險加上費率將毫無競爭力,而其他公司則會提高價格。我認為這種動態還有待觀察。而我們基本上只是再次成為它的接收者並在其中進行操作。

  • Omar Nokta - Analyst

    Omar Nokta - Analyst

  • Right. Thank you, Jacob. I appreciate the comments. I'll pass it back.

    正確的。謝謝你,雅各。我很感謝這些評論。我會把它傳回去。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Bendik Nyttingness, Clarksons Securities.

    本迪克‧尼廷尼斯 (Bendik Nyttingness),克拉克森證券公司。

  • Bendik Folden Nyttingnes - Analyst

    Bendik Folden Nyttingnes - Analyst

  • Thank you. I have a quick one on growth or (inaudible) you going forward. It seems to be quite a slip in activity in the fourth quarter compared to the last two years for you guys and for the market in general when it comes to some deals. But how do you view this going forward? Should we expect fair trade to be the main theme for the next few months or do you expect any larger type of transactions?

    謝謝。我有一個關於成長或(聽不清楚)你未來發展的快速問題。與過去兩年相比,對於你們以及整個市場而言,第四季度的交易活動似乎出現了相當大的下滑。但您如何看待這未來的發展?我們是否應該期待公平貿易成為未來幾個月的主要主題,或者您是否期待更大規模的交易?

  • Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

    Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

  • Thank you, Ben. Jacob here. Looking forward, I think it's going to be depending on the circumstances. But I think looking a little back and thinking through your good point around that the liquidity in the market, the secondary market on sale and purchase in the fourth quarter was significantly lower than what we had then experienced for let's say a number of years. And I think the fact is that when prices recalibrate no now, a step change down, to healthy rates in a historical sense and good rates for coming like ourselves, but lower than what they were, I think the market and potential buyers and sellers simply need to be comfortable that you have found a new level. And then transactions, in my opinion, will start to creep up. I think a testament to that is that we have sold here, very recently, three vessels of vintage 2005.

    謝謝你,本。這裡是雅各。展望未來,我認為這將取決於具體情況。但我認為,回顧並思考你的觀點,第四季的市場流動性、二級市場的買賣情況明顯低於我們當時所經歷的數年水準。我認為事實是,當價格重新調整時,不是現在,而是逐步下降,達到歷史意義上的健康利率和對我們這樣的好利率,但低於以前的水平,我認為市場和潛在的買家和賣家只需要感到舒服,你已經找到了一個新的水平。然後,我認為交易量就會開始上升。我認為一個證明就是我們最近在這裡售出了三瓶 2005 年份的葡萄酒。

  • So I think that liquidity comes back when both the earning potential and prices, they recalibrate from where they were. Are we then at that point now? Let's just argue that that is the case, then I think we will see that there will be more meeting of mind between buyers and sellers and that you will have an optic in volume on transactions. But time will tell. But I think this quite explains. And I think our markets on S&P behaves pretty much like we all understand real estate markets. When there's a shock to, let's say, the price of houses or apartments, I mean those markets tend to also come to a grind because people need to evaluate, okay, what is then the next clearance price. And I think it's very much the same here.

    因此我認為,當獲利潛力和價格重新調整到原來的水準時,流動性就會恢復。那我們現在處於那個階段嗎?如果我們只是認為情況確實如此,那麼我認為我們將看到買家和賣家之間會有更多的思想交流,並且您將對交易量有一個直觀的認識。但時間會證明一切。但我認為這很能解釋這一點。我認為標準普爾市場的表現與我們所了解的房地產市場非常相似。當房屋或公寓價格受到衝擊時,這些市場往往也會陷入困境,因為人們需要評估下一個清倉價是多少。我認為這裡的情況也大致相同。

  • Bendik Folden Nyttingnes - Analyst

    Bendik Folden Nyttingnes - Analyst

  • Thank you, Jacob. That makes total sense.

    謝謝你,雅各。這完全有道理。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • There are no more questions. I will now turn the conference back over to CEO, Jacob Meldgaard, for closing remarks.

    沒有其他問題了。現在,我將會議交還給執行長 Jacob Meldgaard,請他致閉幕詞。

  • Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

    Jacob Meldgaard - Chief Executive Officer, Executive Director

  • Thanks to all of you for listening in to the presentation of the end report 2024 for TORM. Thank you.

    感謝大家聆聽 TORM 2024 年最終報告的演講。謝謝。