Tim SA (TIMB) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to TIM SA 2025 second quarter results video conference call. We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，早安。歡迎參加 TIM SA 2025 第二季業績視訊電話會議。我們想通知您，此事件正在被記錄。（操作員指示）

Hello, and welcome to our earnings conference for the second quarter of 2025. I'm Vicente Ferreira, Investor Relations Officer of TIM Brazil. This video highlights our recent performance and how we see the market evolving in the first half of the year. After that, we have a live Q&A with our CEO, Alberto Griselli; and our CFO, Andrea Viegas. Please note that management may make forward-looking statements in this presentation may contain them. Refer to the disclaimer on the screen and on our Investor Relations website.

您好，歡迎參加我們的 2025 年第二季財報會議。我是 TIM Brazil 的投資者關係長 Vicente Ferreira。這部影片重點介紹了我們最近的表現以及我們對上半年市場發展的看法。之後，我們將與執行長 Alberto Griselli 和財務長 Andrea Viegas 進行現場問答。請注意，管理階層可能會做出前瞻性陳述，本簡報中可能包含這些陳述。請參閱螢幕上和我們的投資者關係網站上的免責聲明。

Now let's review our results.

現在讓我們回顧一下我們的結果。

Hello, everyone. I'm Alberto Griselli, CEO of TIM Brazil. The first half of 2025 has been marked by strong execution and clear strategic vision, driving solid financial and operational results. Service revenues grew by 5.4% year-over-year, supported by mobile services, while EBITDA increased by 6.5%, reflecting improved profitability with a 49.5% margin. Operating cash flow expanded significantly, while we maintain our commitment ramping up distribution to shareholders.

大家好。我是 TIM 巴西公司的執行長 Alberto Griselli。2025 年上半年，公司執行力強、策略願景清晰，取得了穩健的財務和營運績效。在行動服務的推動下，服務收入年增 5.4%，EBITDA 成長 6.5%，利潤率達到 49.5%，獲利能力有所提高。經營現金流大幅擴大，同時我們堅持加強對股東分配的承諾。

We continue to lead in 5G technology, which allow us to offload traffic from 4G. Today, 30% of traffic flows via our 5G network. Additionally, TIM was recognized as the most sustainable Brazilian company, topping the B3 Sustainability Index. Global volatility has increased by end of the semester, but we march forward implementing our strategic initiatives. Network modernization accelerates with new regions, partnerships expand and new revenue opportunities are developed. We are on track to meet our 2025 targets.

我們在 5G 技術方面繼續保持領先地位，這使我們能夠卸載 4G 的流量。今天，30% 的流量透過我們的 5G 網路傳輸。此外，TIM 被公認為最具永續發展能力的巴西公司，位居 B3 永續發展指數榜首。學期末，全球波動性增加，但我們仍在繼續實施我們的策略性舉措。隨著新地區的出現、合作關係的擴大以及新收入機會的開發，網路現代化進程正在加速。我們正在穩步實現 2025 年的目標。

As I mentioned, our service revenues evolution is driven by mobile. In quarter two, total service revenue grew 5.1% year-on-year, while mobile sustaining a faster pace at 5.6%. TIM's strategy to combine volume and value initiatives to offer innovation and rational commercial approach is working as the company posted the highest mobile ARPU in the industry at close to BRL33 per month, expanding at mid-single digits. At the same time, we added more than 450,000 new postpaid customers in the second quarter.

正如我所提到的，我們的服務收入變化是由行動驅動的。第二季度，總服務收入年增5.1%，其中行動業務維持較快成長，增幅達5.6%。TIM 的策略是將數量和價值舉措結合起來，提供創新和合理的商業方法，這一策略正在發揮作用，因為該公司的行動 ARPU 達到了業內最高水平，接近每月 33 巴西雷亞爾，並以中等個位數的速度增長。同時，我們在第二季新增了超過45萬名後付費客戶。

Postpaid services have increased in importance with a penetration rate close to 70% of mobile service revenues, confirming the shift towards more stable and higher value customer segments. It's been 14 consecutive quarters of rapid postpaid revenue expansion. In quarter two, we maintained the double-digit pace closing the first half with 12.2% year-over-year growth. Again, a combination of solid ARPU dynamics, held by control to pure postpaid upselling, and healthy customer base trends with low churn levels and pre to post migrations. In the first quarter, we introduced the concept of 360 degrees presence in specific markets.

後付費服務的重要性日益增加，其滲透率已接近行動服務收入的 70%，證實了向更穩定、更高價值的客戶群的轉變。後付費收入已連續 14 個季度快速成長。第二季度，我們維持了兩位數的成長速度，上半年年增12.2%。再次，穩定的 ARPU 動態、對純後付費追加銷售的控制、以及低流失率和前後遷移的健康客戶群趨勢相結合。第一季度，我們在特定市場引入了360度全方位覆蓋的概念。

Sao Paulo was the first and now we are expanding this approach to other regions of the country. Under this project, we work with a tripled network, brand and channels, aiming to translate our network leadership into changes in customer experience and perception. In Sao Paulo, we have completed the modernization of half of the sites we committed to already benefiting nearly 250 cities and approximately 10 million people. The network swap improves coverage, capacity and reduce energy consumption. Following this implementation, we expanded our overall download leadership versus our peers.

聖保羅是第一個，現在我們正在將這種方法擴展到該國的其他地區。在該專案下，我們與三倍的網路、品牌和管道合作，旨在將我們的網路領先地位轉化為客戶體驗和感知的改變。在聖保羅，我們已完成承諾站點的一半的現代化改造，惠及近 250 個城市和約 1000 萬人。網路交換提高了覆蓋範圍和容量並降低了能耗。實施此措施後，我們相對於同業擴大了整體下載領先地位。

And for the first time, we became leaders in 5G as well. Speed with our coverage is not enough. That's why our coverage leadership comes first, followed by capacity to improve throughput. Minas is next there, we doubled the number of cities with 5G, benefiting around 10 million people as well. Commercial presence is expanded with 13 new stores in 2025, including one flagship location.

我們也首次成為5G領域的領導者。我們的覆蓋速度還不夠。這就是為什麼我們的覆蓋率領先地位放在第一位，其次才是提高吞吐量的能力。接下來是米納斯，我們將 5G 城市的數量增加了一倍，約 1000 萬人受益。2025 年，商業版圖將擴大，新增 13 家門市，其中包括一家旗艦店。

Changing gears to new revenue streams. Our B2B IoT strategy is performing well. We have seen substantial growth in contracted revenues, particularly in agribusiness utilities and logistics, specifically in the last vertical, we are consolidating our leadership amid an increasing interest from our peers in these projects. We expect that the sector can maintain a rational approach as we have seen in traditional mobile. As pioneers in bringing digital connectivity to Brazilian highways, we have reached about 7,000 kilometers of roads covered, almost half of those are in partnership with large logistics players such as [Way] and EcoRodovias.

轉向新的收入​​來源。我們的 B2B 物聯網策略表現良好。我們的合約收入大幅增長，特別是在農業公用事業和物流領域，特別是在最後一個垂直領域，隨著同行對這些項目的興趣日益濃厚，我們正在鞏固我們的領導地位。我們預計該行業能夠保持理性，就像我們在傳統行動領域看到的那樣。作為將數位連接引入巴西高速公路的先驅，我們已經涵蓋了約 7,000 公里的道路，其中近一半是與 [Way] 和 EcoRodovias 等大型物流公司合作的。

It's worth highlighting that we are starting to move up in the value chain, adding solution to our connectivity. Video monitoring and specialized road lighting are now part of our portfolio. TIM is committed to provide the integrated solution that enhance operational efficiency for clients in various sectors. Further developing the B2B IoT opportunity, we will expand our addressable market and open new avenues for growth. with similar goals, our digital ecosystem continues to expand.

值得強調的是，我們開始在價值鏈中向上移動，為我們的連結添加解決方案。視訊監控和專用道路照明現在是我們產品組合的一部分。TIM致力於為各產業客戶提供提升營運效率的一體化解決方案。透過進一步開發 B2B 物聯網機會，我們將擴大我們的潛在市場並開闢新的成長途徑。為了實現類似的目標，我們的數位生態系統將繼續擴大。

Our collaboration with Eletrobras is materializing as we launched the first two markets with energy sales to corporate clients. Nationwide expansion is expected by September. Under this partnership, we are offering to high-voltage clients up to 30% discounts on the energy bills, targeting approximately 2 million customers. Sales, we leveraged TIM's existing SME engines.

隨著我們向企業客戶推出首兩個能源銷售市場，我們與 Eletrobras 的合作正在實現。預計到 9 月將在全國範圍內進行擴張。根據這項合作關係，我們將為高壓客戶提供高達 30% 的能源費用折扣，目標客戶約 200 萬。銷售方面，我們利用了 TIM 現有的 SME 引擎。

Additionally, our 5G fund is bearing fruit. This technology-driven investment is performing well as investee grow their business and improve their valuation contributing positively to the fund's performance. A new investment is on the way, a financial service company named [Kat] Investimentos. They are developing and delivering financial solution through a credit as a service model, facilitating access to capital and reducing the dependence of traditional banks.

此外，我們的5G基金正在取得成果。這項技術驅動的投資表現良好，因為被投資者的業務成長和估值提高對基金的績效產生了積極影響。一項新的投資即將到來，一家名為 [Kat] Investimentos 的金融服務公司。他們正在透過信用即服務模式開發和提供金融解決方案，促進資本獲取並減少對傳統銀行的依賴。

Moving ahead to infrastructure, I would like to recap how TIM is leading the way in 5G development in the country. It's been three years since we began rolling out the technology that will change the way we view investments in the telecom sector.

在基礎設施方面，我想回顧一下 TIM 如何在該國的 5G 發展中處於領先地位。我們開始推出這項將改變我們對電信領域投資看法的技術已經三年了。

Today, we cover 70% of the urban population, and we are number one in cities with 5G. The rapid expansion of our coverage has helped the number of 5G devices to grow fivefold since 2022. And now it represents 28% of total devices. This pairing, availability plus adoption, is playing a major role in enabling traffic to shift from 4G to 5G. In state capitals, 5G accounts for 30% of data traffic. And in Sao Paulo, offload is at 36%. Customers spend over half of their time on 5G networks, reflecting strong adoption.

今天，我們的城市人口覆蓋率達到70%，在5G覆蓋城市中排名第一。我們的覆蓋範圍迅速擴大，使得 5G 設備數量自 2022 年以來增加了五倍。目前它佔設備總數的 28%。這種可用性加上採用率的結合在推動流量從 4G 轉向 5G 方面發揮著重要作用。在各州首府，5G 佔資料流量的 30%。在聖保羅，卸載率為 36%。客戶將超過一半的時間花在 5G 網路上，反映出其強勁的採用率。

Thanks to this scenario and 5G lower cost per gigabyte, just 30% of 4G, TIM is using its resources more efficiently. Another technology is also a key driver of operational efficiency and cost savings. Artificial intelligence is at the center of present and future opportunities to improve productivity.

由於這種情況以及 5G 每 GB 成本較低（僅為 4G 的 30%），TIM 正在更有效地利用其資源。另一項技術也是提高營運效率和節省成本的關鍵驅動因素。人工智慧是當前和未來提高生產力機會的核心。

The company has mapped 100 use cases, prioritize 56 for strategic feeding value, piloted 24, and executed 7 projects focused on operational improvements. Most pilots target cost efficiency with some addressing commercial opportunities.

該公司已繪製了 100 個用例，優先考慮了 56 個具有戰略價值的用例，試點了 24 個用例，並執行了 7 個專注於營運改進的專案。大多數試點都以成本效益為目標，有些則著眼於商業機會。

Six new projects are scheduled for development in the second half of 2025. This structural II pipeline demonstrate team's commitment to leverage advanced technology and innovation to optimize operation, enhance business performance.

2025 年下半年計畫開發六個新項目。此結構性 II 管道體現了團隊致力於利用先進技術和創新來優化營運、提高業務績效的承諾。

Now let's move on the financial details with our CFO, Andrea.

現在讓我們與我們的財務長安德里亞討論財務細節。

Hello, everyone. I'm Andrea Viegas, CFO of TIM. I'm pleased to share that we've delivered another quarter of consistent performance, reinforcing our ability to stay on track with our guidance dynamic environment. Once again, we are seeing the benefits of the disciplined cost control. Our efficiency program is running at full speed, helping us keep cost growth below inflation.

大家好。我是 TIM 的財務長 Andrea Viegas。我很高興地告訴大家，我們又一個季度保持了穩定的業績，增強了我們跟上指導動態環境的能力。我們再次看到了嚴格的成本控制所帶來的好處。我們的效率計劃正在全速運行，幫助我們將成本增長保持在通貨膨脹率以下。

It's important to note that this multidisciplinary initiative impacts all expense lines and enable us to continue investing in key areas of our business. This strategy has consistently driven improvement across all major operating metrics. We have sustained positive momentum in both EBITDA and EBITDA after lease, showing another quarter of margin expansion.

值得注意的是，這項多學科舉措影響所有費用項目，並使我們能夠繼續投資於業務的關鍵領域。這項策略持續推動了所有主要營運指標的改善。我們的 EBITDA 和租賃後的 EBITDA 均保持了積極的勢頭，顯示出利潤率又一個季度的增長。

On the lease strong, as I mentioned last quarter, we have several initiatives underway to optimize our industrial costs and lease like tower contract negotiation, evolution of our rail sharing and also new partnerships tower development. Our bottom line continues to expand as a healthy pace, marking at another quarter of strong earnings growth and reinforcing the consistency of our financial delivery.

在租賃方面，正如我上個季度提到的，我們正在採取多項舉措來優化我們的工業成本和租賃，如塔合約談判、鐵路共享的發展以及新的合作夥伴塔的發展。我們的底線繼續以健康的速度擴大，標誌著另一個季度的強勁盈利增長，並加強了我們財務交付的一致性。

As Alberto mentioned, we've now completed three years of 5G operations. Since then, we have been bearing fruit from the efficiency brought by this technology, which has become one of the key levers in our CapEx management strategy. All of this supported our operational cash flow, which once again posted double digit growth. This performance highlights our strong first half results and confirms our commitment to our strategy.

正如 Alberto 所提到的，我們現在已經完成了三年的 5G 營運。自那時起，我們就從這項技術帶來的效率中獲得了豐碩的成果，它已成為我們資本支出管理策略的關鍵槓桿之一。所有這些都支持了我們的營運現金流，使其再次實現兩位數的成長。這項業績凸顯了我們上半年強勁的業績，並證實了我們對策略的承諾。

Now back to Alberto.

現在回到阿爾貝托。

Thank you, Andrea. Before we conclude, I would like to highlight our ESG achievements. We disclosed our annual report with significant strides in our commitments, among other, use of renewable energy, promotion of diversity and inclusion policies, prioritization of accessibility for people with disabilities. These efforts have earned TIM recognition across multiple sustainability indexes and awards, reinforcing our leadership in corporate responsibility. Looking ahead to the second half of 2025, TIM is focused on executing its strategic initiatives to meet its targets.

謝謝你，安德里亞。在結束之前，我想先強調一下我們的 ESG 成就。我們揭露的年度報告顯示，我們在承諾方面取得了重大進展，其中包括使用再生能源、促進多樣性和包容性政策、優先考慮殘疾人無障礙設施等。這些努力贏得了 TIM 在多個永續發展指數和獎項上的認可，鞏固了我們在企業責任方面的領導地位。展望 2025 年下半年，TIM 將專注於執行其策略性舉措以實現其目標。

Key areas include, first, developing new partnership with a special focus on financial services. We expect to announce new initiatives in the coming months, filling the space left by C6 Bank expanding our presence within the financial service sector.

重點領域包括：一是發展以金融服務為重點的新夥伴關係。我們預計在未來幾個月內宣布新的舉措，填補 C6 銀行留下的空白，擴大我們在金融服務領域的影響力。

Second, advancing B2B IoT solution with the expansion of our portfolio and services and reinforces the presence in selected verticals. Third, accelerating implementation of efficiency initiatives under our program, supporting our ability to expand margins. Fourth, securing the implementation of a new approach to leases, renegotiation with reduced prices, tower company switch is a key lever, share infrastructure and reduce exposure and building is now an option.

其次，透過擴展我們的產品組合和服務來推進 B2B 物聯網解決方案，並加強在特定垂直領域的影響力。第三，加速實施我們計畫下的效率舉措，支持我們擴大利潤的能力。第四，確保實施新的租賃方式，重新談判降低價格，轉換塔公司是一個關鍵槓桿，共享基礎設施，減少風險，建設現在是一種選擇。

Fifth, improving broadband operation while proactively monitoring market movements. I want to emphasize our consistent trajectory of progress the company's commitment to innovation, operational excellence and sustainable growth as it drives forward into the remainder of the year.

第五，積極監測市場動向，改善寬頻營運。我想強調我們持續的進步軌跡，以及公司在今年剩餘時間內對創新、卓越營運和永續成長的承諾。

Thank you all for your attention. And now let's move to the live Q&A session.

謝謝大家的關注。現在讓我們進入現場問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Marcelo Santos, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的馬塞洛·桑托斯。

Hi, good morning, Alberto, Andrea. Thanks for taking questions. I have two questions on my side. The first is -- Alberto, good morning, first. The first question is the outlook for lease lines in the remainder of the year. So I think in the first couple of quarters, the line didn't increase that much. So just wanted to see how we should expect to progress, especially that now that you have these new tower projects. So an update would be great.

嗨，早安，Alberto，Andrea。謝謝你們的提問。我有兩個問題。第一個是──阿爾貝托，早安。第一個問題是今年剩餘時間租賃線路的前景。所以我認為在前幾個季度，這條線路並沒有增加那麼多。所以只是想看看我們應該如何期待進展，特別是現在有了這些新的塔項目。因此更新一下就好了。

And the second I would like to see if there's an evolution on management thought about the fixed business. So I think in the previous call, you have discussed that you're considering a full spectrum of possibilities for what to do, what team wants to be on this business? I just want to see if something has evolved from the last call to this call. Thank you.

第二，我想看看固定業務的管理想法是否發生了演變。所以我認為在之前的電話會議中，您已經討論過您正在考慮要做什麼的各種可能性，哪個團隊想要參與這項業務？我只是想看看從上次通話到這次通話是否有進展。謝謝。

Marcelo, hi. So let me take the second one, and then I will pass to Andrea for the first one on the tower. So when it comes to the fixed business, in terms of inorganic progress, there is no additional news to be shared at this stage. So we are on the organic side, focus to optimize the businesses. So you see that for us, it's more, the scenario remains competitive.

馬塞洛，你好。所以讓我拿第二個，然後我會把塔上的第一個交給安德里亞。因此，就固定業務而言，就無機進展而言，現階段沒有其他消息可以分享。因此，我們注重有機發展，專注於優化業務。所以你看，對我們來說，更重要的是，情況仍然具有競爭力。

And we are tweaking our operations. So you will see that basically, we are losing less and increasing our customer base. And so we're doing some small adjustments and progress there. In terms of nonorganic opportunities, we are at the same stage like last quarter. So basically, we got from one extreme divestment of the asset, whereby we will lose our strategic optionality on the other extreme some kind of largest deal that are, by definition, more complex.

我們正在調整我們的營運。因此你會發現，基本上我們的損失減少了，而我們的客戶群卻增加了。因此，我們正在做一些小的調整並取得進展。就非有機機會而言，我們與上一季處於同一階段。因此，基本上，我們從一個極端撤資中獲得了資產，從而在另一個極端中失去了戰略選擇權，而從另一個極端來看，某種規模最大的交易，從定義上講，這種交易更為複雜。

And in the middle, some more balanced opportunities that are the ones where we are focusing. And as soon as we are going to have some update, we're going to share with the market, nothing to date. And will pass tower to Andrea.

而在中間，一些更平衡的機會正是我們所關注的。一旦我們有更新，我們就會與市場分享，但目前還沒有。並將塔傳給安德里亞。

Hi, Marcelo, related to the towers, as we mentioned before, this year is a very challenging to the lease, especially for inflation and also of our rollouts. We are keeping negotiations with our partners, that our company is a very hard negotiation, very tough, but we are positive that we will achieve our goal in this year that is the increased lease in the path of the inflation rate. We also are studying some alternatives as I mentioned. And as soon, we have news about this, we will show you. But we are constantly keeping the negotiations with our partners.

你好，馬塞洛，關於塔樓，正如我們之前提到的，今年對於租賃來說是非常具有挑戰性的一年，尤其是通貨膨脹和我們的推廣。我們正在與我們的合作夥伴進行談判，對於我們公司來說，這是一場非常艱難的談判，非常艱難，但我們有信心，我們將在今年實現我們的目標，即在通貨膨脹率的路徑上增加租金。正如我所提到的，我們也在研究一些替代方案。一旦我們有相關消息，我們就會告訴您。但我們一直在與合作夥伴保持談判。

If I can add on the negotiation a few points, Marcelo, basically, what we've found over the last months is that some of the main players are more willing to negotiate than in the past, whereby other one are less willing to negotiate in the past. What we are literally looking is some win-win situation whereby we got towers that are above market price of what we consider to be a fair market price to a fair market price, and we got some negotiation, let's put this way, counter positive things to be put on the table like extension of the contracts and this sort of time.

馬塞洛，如果我可以就談判補充幾點的話，基本上，我們在過去幾個月發現，一些主要參與者比過去更願意進行談判，而其他人則不太願意進行談判。我們實際上尋求的是雙贏的局面，即我們得到的塔的價格高於我們認為的公平市場價格，並且我們進行了一些談判，讓我們這樣說，將一些積極的事情擺到桌面上，比如延長合約等等。

Then there is some -- in the case of the tower companies, and this is specifically one that is less inclined to negotiate with us. We already communicated that we are going to decommission all towers that are above what we consider to be fair market prices. Of course, it's not something going to happen in the super short term because we need to wait for contract leases to expire.

然後還有一些——就塔台公司而言，這家公司不太願意與我們談判。我們已經表示，我們將關閉所有價格高於我們認為的公平市場價格的塔。當然，這不會在短期內發生，因為我們需要等待合約租約到期。

And so there is a pattern there and not to pay fees or fines related to the early termination but we are committed to the commission towers that are not in line with market prices. And we're already doing it.

因此，存在一種模式，即不支付與提前終止相關的費用或罰款，但我們致力於不符合市場價格的佣金塔。我們已經在這麼做了。

Perfect. Thank you very much, for both answers.

完美的。非常感謝兩位的回答。

Gustavo Farias, UBS.

瑞銀的 Gustavo Farias。

Hi, everyone, thanks for taking my questions and congrats on the results. Two from my end. The first one, if you could give a little bit more color on CapEx and leasing efficiency measures and the outlook for CapEx intensity for the second semester and especially in the light of this whole network modernization in Sao Paulo, and the 5G expansion in Mina Gerais.

大家好，感謝你們回答我的問題，並祝賀你們所取得的成果。我這邊有兩個。第一個問題，如果您可以更詳細地介紹一下資本支出和租賃效率措施以及第二學期資本支出強度的前景，特別是考慮到聖保羅的整個網絡現代化以及米納吉拉斯的 5G 擴展。

And the second one, if you could comment on the sales and marketing expenses and how to think about this line going forward, and also considering the ongoing commercial efforts in Sao Paulo at the opening of new stores and so on and so forth. Thanks.

第二，您能否評論一下銷售和行銷費用以及如何看待這條產品線的未來發展，同時考慮在聖保羅開設新店等正在進行的商業努力。謝謝。

Okay. Let me go with the first round of answers here. When it comes to the CapEx efficiency, as we said, we -- the -- these are related to a modernization of our infrastructure, basically that has been negotiated last year. And basically, the good news is that what we were expecting in terms of improvement in TCO are materializing. We are in the middle -- let's put this way, in the total swap of Sao Paulo capital.

好的。讓我先來回答一下第一輪問題。談到資本支出效率，正如我們所說，這些與我們基礎設施的現代化有關，基本上這是去年談判達成的。基本上，好消息是，我們所期望的 TCO 改善正在實現。我們處於中間位置——可以這麼說，處於聖保羅首都的整體互換中。

So the swap is performing well in terms of network performance. So if you look at the benefits of what we are doing for the customers, you will see that we reached the number one position in -- we already had in coverage and average speed, meaning 4G and 5G.

因此，就網路效能而言，交換錶現良好。因此，如果你看看我們為客戶所做的事情帶來的好處，你會發現我們在覆蓋範圍和平均速度方面已經達到了第一的位置，也就是 4G 和 5G。

Now we are best-in-class in both 4G and 5G and, of course, in the average. And so you see that from that perspective, the modernization project is delivering what was expected to deliver in terms of increased coverage capacity, better service to our customers. At the same time, when you look at the efficiency, what we are measuring now is that what we were expecting, it's also materializing.

現在我們在 4G 和 5G 方面都處於領先地位，當然，在平均水平上也是如此。因此，從這個角度來看，現代化專案正在實現預期目標，即提高覆蓋能力，為客戶提供更好的服務。同時，當你觀察效率時，我們現在測量的是我們所期望的，它也正在實現。

So some of this is more negotiating like the unit pricing, this sort of stuff. Some is related to TCO and that this includes other costs like wind space, like energy consumption. And all these benefits are materializing. So what we designed in our plan and is reflected in our guidance is being delivered in Sao Paulo and therefore, now the expansion in our big capital, same approach to capture the same benefits.

因此，其中一些是更多的談判，例如單位定價，諸如此類的東西。有些與 TCO 有關，其中包括風力空間、能源消耗等其他成本。所有這些好處都正在實現。因此，我們在計劃中設計的內容以及在我們的指導中反映的內容正在聖保羅實現，因此，現在我們在大首都的擴張採用同樣的方法來獲取同樣的利益。

And of course, this is then coupled with increased commercial penetration in those regions. As we say, the 206 approach that is made up of -- is built on network robustness and to deliver in the midterm, increased commercial performance, and this comes also with new point of sales and increased communication. So we are putting all the levers.

當然，這也伴隨著這些地區商業滲透率的提升。正如我們所說，206 方法建立在網路穩健性的基礎上，並在中期實現商業績效的提高，這也伴隨著新的銷售點和溝通的加強。因此，我們正在採取一切措施。

When it comes to the second question, which is related to marketing and sales basically -- in there, you've got a lot of cost categories, each one with different dynamics. So you've got some structural project like -- I will mention a few. So in that category, you have carrying costs and you know that we are implementing a number of initiatives to increase the level of efficiency there, like the artificial intelligence project that are reported in the presentation.

談到第二個問題，它基本上與行銷和銷售有關——其中有很多成本類別，每個類別都有不同的動態。所以你有一些結構性項目，例如——我會提到一些。因此，在該類別中，您有持有成本，並且您知道我們正在實施一系列舉措來提高那裡的效率水平，例如簡報中報告的人工智慧專案。

Then you have commercial costs. And if you look at what is happening, we are shifting a bit more of our sales to e-commerce, for example, and e-commerce is more efficient for us versus other channels. And at the same time, I don't know if you remember, we internalized the e-commerce migration 1.5 years ago, gross addition more recently, when you internalize, basically, you put CapEx to internalize, but then you don't pay commissions. And what else --

然後你就有商業成本了。如果你看看現在的情況，你會發現我們正在將更多的銷售轉移到電子商務，而對我們來說，與其他管道相比，電子商務更有效率。同時，我不知道您是否記得，我們​​在 1.5 年前就實現了電子商務遷移的內部化，最近又進行了總量增加，當您進行內部化時，基本上，您將資本支出用於內部化，但您不支付佣金。還有什麼--

E-billing -- also the e-billing and fixed peak payments that we have a reduction in our costs related to this. But if you look forward second half, we have more campaigns than the first half. So in this first half of the year, we have a very good performance related to the last year. But in the second half, we have more campaigns, Father's Day, Black Friday and Christmas Day.

電子帳單－還有電子帳單和固定高峰付款，我們與此相關的成本降低。但如果你展望下半年，你會發現我們的活動比上半年更多。因此，今年上半年我們的業績與去年相比非常好。但在下半年，我們有更多的活動，父親節、黑色星期五和聖誕節。

There is a seasonality.

有季節性。

Yeah. So there is a seasonality first half of the year.

是的。因此，上半年存在季節性。

It's okay? Did we answer your questions? Okay, cool.

沒關係？我們回答了您的問題嗎？好的，很酷。

Yeah. Super clear. Thanks for the answers.

是的。超級清晰。謝謝您的回答。

Vitor Tomita, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Vitor Tomita。

Good morning and thanks for taking our questions. Two questions from my side. The first one is more on the mobile revenue side, the release sites that there was growth on the on customer-generated revenues driven by the customers, but also driven by roaming revenues and some interoperate agreements. Could you give a bit more color on this and whether this was due to any major new agreements since I remember that's the initial booming roaming was more related to a change in our plans to include the more international roaming.

早安，感謝您回答我們的問題。我有兩個問題。第一個更多的是在行動收入方面，發布網站顯示客戶創造的收入有所增長，這不僅受到客戶推動，還受到漫遊收入和一些互通協議的推動。您能否對此進行更詳細的說明，以及這是否是由於任何重大的新協議造成的，因為我記得最初的漫遊繁榮更多地與我們計劃的變化有關，包括更多的國際漫遊。

And my second question would be a bit of a follow-up on the tower efficiency point that other questions raised. If you could give a bit more color on that initiative of a new RFQ partnership for 1,000 new towers and on how that differs from the way you typically negotiate or think about start construction. You also cited that building towers is more of an option now. So I just wanted to dig a bit more on that. Thank you.

我的第二個問題是對其他問題提出的塔效率點進行一些後續討論。如果您可以更詳細地介紹一下這項為 1,000 座新塔建立新 RFQ 合作夥伴關係的舉措，以及它與您通常談判或考慮開始建設的方式有何不同。您還提到，現在建造塔樓是一種更多的選擇。所以我只是想對此進行更深入的探討。謝謝。

Okay, Vitor. So let me go with the first one, and will pass to Andrea for the second one. If -- when you look at the revenue generation drivers, basically got user generated in our report, you see different lines. So all of them are improving. And basically, when you look at this set of drivers, you have the user generated revenues and the postpaid we said is driving it.

好的，維托。因此，讓我先回答第一個問題，然後交給 Andrea 回答第二個問題。如果 - 當您查看收入產生驅動因素時，基本上是用戶在我們的報告中產生的，您會看到不同的線條。所以他們都在進步。基本上，當你查看這組驅動因素時，你會看到用戶產生的收入以及我們所說的推動它的後付費。

And when you look at the other categories, you will see a number of different things. What is there? You have a combination of a roaming agreement that is related to what we commented on the previous calls. Then you have the B2B IoT progress that is also inside these numbers. And then you have -- when you look at the customer platform level revenues, you will see that you have a different mix of drivers.

當你查看其他類別時，你會看到許多不同的東西。那裡有什麼？您有一個漫遊協議組合，它與我們在先前的通話中所評論的內容有關。然後你會看到 B2B IoT 的進展也包含在這些數字中。然後，當您查看客戶平台層級的收入時，您會發現您有不同的驅動因素組合。

So if you look overall, you see a flattish number. But remember that you have something that we had last year, like C6 that we don't have this year. And so we have some line of business like mobile advertising, and TIM data that are growing double digit. This is all related to our core strategy that is mobile and incremental revenues that we are working -- and roaming would be in that category because it's part of the evolution of our main offerings.

因此，如果你從整體上看，你會看到一個持平的數字。但請記住，我們去年擁有一些東西，例如今年沒有的 C6。因此，我們的一些業務線，如行動廣告和 TIM 數據，都呈現兩位數的成長。這一切都與我們的核心策略有關，即我們正在努力的行動和增量收入——漫遊也屬於這一類別，因為它是我們主要產品演變的一部分。

And then you have new revenue streams like the B2B IoT or mobile advertising and t data that are growing faster and contribute to the overall growth, exactly in line with our strategy to diversify our revenue portfolio.

然後你就有了新的收入來源，例如 B2B 物聯網或行動廣告和數據，它們成長更快，並為整體成長做出貢獻，這完全符合我們多元化收入組合的策略。

Hi, Vitor. the negotiation that we made with our -- with the tower companies is more related to extend time of the contract and get discounts with this. When we are talking about AFT and another opportunity that we are studying is plus -- for example, as Alberto mentioned, we have some partners that we are not achieving an agreement with them and have very high monthly fee with this tower company.

你好，維托。我們與塔台公司進行的談判主要是為了延長合約期限並獲得折扣。當我們談論 AFT 時，我們正在研究的另一個機會是加分項——例如，正如 Alberto 所提到的，我們有一些合作夥伴，我們沒有與他們達成協議，並且與這家塔公司的月費非常高。

So the alternative will be to build a tower. Another thing is in the contract of B2B sometimes, we are in place that it's only us and the tower company is not interested in building a tower in this agro business or road. So this also is alternative for us. So -- but until now, we already negotiated 30% of our tower contracts, and we believe that we still have room to negotiate a lot more. I don't know if there was --

所以另一個選擇就是建造一座塔。另一件事是，有時在 B2B 合約中，我們的情況是只有我們，而塔公司對在這種農業業務或道路上建造塔不感興趣。所以這對我們來說也是一個選擇。所以——但到目前為止，我們已經談判了 30% 的塔合同，我們相信我們仍然有更多談判的空間。我不知道是否有--

If I may add, look at this way. It's like we have a cost line that we really want to dominate. And so we are putting in place all the levers and alternatives that we have to drive the cost where we want, as Andrea said. So you have the negotiation, you got the RAN-sharing agreement, you got a make versus buy option. So we are putting all the options in place because we think that we've got more flexibility and more levers to get this cost line where we want to go.

如果我可以補充的話，請這樣看。這就像我們有一條真正想要控制的成本線。因此，正如安德里亞所說，我們正在採取一切手段和替代方案，以將成本控制在我們想要的範圍內。因此，您進行了談判，並獲得了 RAN 共享協議，獲得了自主研發還是購買的選項。因此，我們將所有選項都放到位，因為我們認為我們擁有更大的靈活性和更多的槓桿來實現我們想要的成本線。

That's clear. Makes sense. Thank you.

這很清楚。有道理。謝謝。

Luis Chagas, XP.

路易斯·查加斯，XP。

Hi guys, thank you for taking my question. From my side, I have to two. So the first one is regarding OpEx. What are the main drivers behind the increase in network and interconnection costs? Are these pressures likely to persist? Or do you expect normalization in the coming quarter?

大家好，感謝你們回答我的問題。從我這邊來說，我必須做到兩點。第一個是關於營運支出的。網路和互連成本增加的主要驅動因素是什麼？這些壓力會持續下去嗎？或者您預計下一季會恢復正常？

And the second question is regarding competition. What's your view on the competitive pressure from new entrants in regions like the Northeast. How are you responding to protect market share there? Thank you.

第二個問題是關於競爭。您如何看待來自東北等地區新進業者的競爭壓力？您如何應對以保護那裡的市場份額？謝謝。

So Luis, let me go on the first one and then I will pass the OpEx question to Andrea. So if you look at the overall market, it's our view that we are in a rational market with competition focus on quality by our main players and our peers, let's put this way. And you see some positive movements in the last quarter, whereby the -- some of the more for more from book price adjustment has been executed. I believe, and we're starting some potential adjustment in -- according to more strategy front book prices for pure postpaid also. And so overall, the -- am I reading on the competitive dynamics is that it's rational.

那麼路易斯，讓我先談第一個問題，然後我會將 OpEx 問題轉交給安德里亞。因此，如果你看一下整體市場，我們認為我們處於一個理性的市場，主要參與者和同行的競爭重點是質量，我們可以這樣說。並且您將看到上個季度出現了一些積極的變化，其中，一些來自圖書價格調整的更多舉措已經實施。我相信，我們也正在開始對純後付費的帳面價格進行一些潛在的調整。所以總的來說，我對競爭動態的解讀是合理的。

Of course, there are some regional competitors that tends to be a bit more aggressive and they're playing more on the price levers as we commented on the first quarter, we are looking at it very closely. We are not reacting on prices at this point in time, we're more focusing on our levers in terms of quality of services to make these customers more happy and less sensible to the price movement or the regional competitors. So far, my take is that the threat is limited, but we look at this and we'll respond as things will evolve over time.

當然，有些地區競爭對手往往更具侵略性，他們更多地利用價格槓桿，正如我們在第一季評論的那樣，我們正在密切關注這一點。我們目前不會對價格做出反應，我們更注重服務品質方面的槓桿，以使這些客戶更加滿意，並且對價格變動或區域競爭對手不那麼敏感。到目前為止，我的看法是威脅是有限的，但我們會關注這個問題，並根據事態的發展做出反應。

Hi Luis. The increase of the network interconnection is related to the increase in the International roaming costs and also in provider costs. International roaming, we increased the customers that actually are using the service. And the provider cost increased because we launched a new portfolio with streams on board and also because more customers are acquiring this kind of plan.

你好，路易斯。網路互連的增加與國際漫遊成本以及供應商成本的增加有關。國際漫遊，我們增加了實際使用該服務的客戶數量。由於我們推出了包含串流媒體的新產品組合，而且越來越多的客戶購買了這種計劃，因此提供者的成本增加。

For us, it's a positive view, I can't say this because all these have a good margin for us probably if we have an increase in our provider cost because we have more revenue related to this. And in the roaming international, as we mentioned in the past time, we have an adjustment between cost and revenue that in the year, this is also a positive margin. So the increase of this expenses is related to more customers and more revenue.

對我們來說，這是一個積極的看法，我不能這麼說，因為如果我們的供應商成本增加，所有這些對我們來說都有很好的利潤，因為我們有更多的與此相關的收入。在國際漫遊方面，正如我們過去提到的，我們在成本和收入之間進行了調整，今年這也是一個正利潤率。因此，這項費用的增加與更多的客戶和更多的收入有關。

Okay. Luis, did we answer your question?

好的。路易斯，我們回答了你的問題嗎？

Okay, Luis, did you answer your question, sir?

好的，路易斯，先生，您回答了您的問題嗎？

Yes. Thank you.

是的。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Gustavo Farias, UBS.

瑞銀的 Gustavo Farias。

Hi everyone. One additional question. I'd like to take a look on prepaid. We've seen sequential growth in ARPU versus the first quarter. Just wanted to have an outlook for the how you're seeing the segment perspectives ahead and especially in the light of numbers from AMX last week, which also showed some improvements. Thank you.

大家好。還有一個問題。我想看一下預付費。與第一季相比，我們看到 ARPU 出現了連續成長。只是想了解一下您對未來細分市場前景的看法，特別是根據上週 AMX 的數據，它也顯示出了一些改善。謝謝。

Okay. Gustavo, now when you look at prepaid, one or the main driver of our dynamics, I would feel our competitive dynamics also is related to the prepaid to control migration. So this is something that we will keep doing. We have been doing is accretive to our revenue growth and it's one of the drivers of the revenue performance of prepaid.

好的。古斯塔沃，現在當你看看預付費時，我們的動力之一或主要驅動力，我覺得我們的競爭動力也與預付費控制遷移有關。因此我們會繼續做這件事。我們一直在做的事情是增加我們的收入成長，這是預付費收入表現的驅動因素之一。

As we commented that we saw in the previous calls, we are also working on opportunities of improvement in the frequency of recharges and we have employees a number of initiatives on the offer side, channel side that will increase capillarity and communication that we're putting in place. And this basically, if you look forward, should allow us to soften the decline of prepaid revenues from one side while sustaining the postpaid revenues with prepaid to control migration.

正如我們在先前的電話會議中提到的那樣，我們也在努力尋找提高充值頻率的機會，並且我們在服務方和管道方都採取了一些舉措，以增強我們正在實施的毛細作用和溝通。基本上，如果你向前看，這應該可以讓我們從一方面緩解預付費收入的下降，同時透過預付費來維持後付費收入以控制遷移。

It's a general trend, I would say. I don't comment on others. On our peers' performance, I would say that a lot of what you see is strongly related to the prepaid to control migration strategies of each operator and each one of us has its own.

我想說，這是一個普遍趨勢。我不評論別人。關於我們同行的表現，我想說，您所看到的許多情況都與每個運營商的預付費控制遷移策略密切相關，而且我們每個人都有自己的策略。

Perfect. Thanks a lot.

完美的。多謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Without any more questions from analysts, I'm turning the floor to Mr. Alberto Griselli for his final remarks. Please Mr. Alberto, you may proceed.

分析師們沒有其他問題了，下面請 Alberto Griselli 先生做最後的演講。阿爾貝托先生，請您繼續。

So thank you all for joining today's video call. I think we wrapped up the first half with strong momentum. And despite external challenges, we are staying true to our strategy and consistently delivering solid results. Looking into the second half, I'm generally excited for what the second half holds for us. We've got a robust plan in place and the confidence to make it happen.

感謝大家參加今天的視訊通話。我認為我們以強勁的勢頭結束了上半場。儘管面臨外部挑戰，我們仍堅持我們的策略並持續取得堅實的成果。展望下半年，我對下半年會發生什麼事感到很興奮。我們已經制定了完善的計劃，並有信心實現它。

I would like also to provide my heartfelt thanks to our entire team for their commitment and drive. And I look forward to catching up with some of you in the upcoming one-to-one meetings. Ciao, everybody.

我還要衷心感謝我們整個團隊的奉獻和動力。我期待在即將舉行的一對一會議中與你們中的一些人交流。大家好。

This will conclude the second quarter of 2025 conference call of TIM SA. For further information and details of the company, please access our website at tim.com.br/ir. You can disconnect from now on, and thank you once again, and have a wonderful day.

TIM SA 2025 年第二季電話會議就此結束。如需了解更多公司資訊和詳情，請造訪我們的網站tim.com.br/ir。現在您可以斷開連接了，再次感謝您，祝您擁有美好的一天。