Tim SA (TIMB) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to TIM S.A. 2024 fourth-quarter results video conference call.

女士們、先生們，早安，歡迎參加 TIM S.A. 2024 年第四季業績視訊電話會議。

We'd like to inform you that this event is being recorded.

我們想通知您，該活動正在被記錄。

(Operator Instructions) There will be a replay for this call on the company's website.

（操作員指示）公司網站上將會重播本次通話。

After TIM S.A. remarks are completed, there will be a Q&A session for participants.

TIM S.A. 發言結束後，將安排參與者的問答環節。

At that time, further instructions will be given.

屆時將會給予進一步的指示。

Now I'll pass the word to Vicente, Head of IR.

現在我將把這個話轉達給投資人關係主管 Vicente。

Please go ahead, sir.

先生，請繼續。

(video starts)

（影片開始）

Hello, and welcome to TIM S.A.'s fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference.

您好，歡迎參加 TIM S.A. 2024 年第四季財報會議。

I'm Vicente Ferreira, Head of Investor Relations.

我是投資者關係主管 Vicente Ferreira。

This video highlights our recent performance and the updated three-year guidance.

該影片重點介紹了我們最近的表現和更新的三年指導。

Afterwards, we will have a live Q&A session with CEO, Alberto Griselli; and CFO, Andrea Viegas.

之後，我們將與執行長 Alberto Griselli 進行現場問答；和財務長 Andrea Viegas。

Please note that management may make forward-looking statements, and this presentation may contain them.

請注意，管理階層可能會做出前瞻性陳述，而本簡報可能包含這些陳述。

Refer to the disclaimer on the screen and on our Investor Relations website.

請參閱螢幕上和我們的投資者關係網站上的免責聲明。

Now let's review our results.

現在讓我們回顧一下我們的結果。

Hello, everyone.

大家好。

I'm Alberto Griselli, CEO of TIM Brasil.

我是 TIM 巴西公司的執行長 Alberto Griselli。

I'm pleased to present to you a robust set of results in a dynamic year, when we overcame challenges and took advantage of our strengths to meet all of our targets. 2024 was marked by powerful cash generation, thanks to solid financial and operational results.

我很高興向大家呈現這充滿活力的一年裡所取得的強勁成果，我們克服了挑戰，並利用我們的優勢實現了所有目標。得益於穩健的財務和營運業績，2024 年的現金創造能力強勁。

We closed the year with service revenue growing 6.4% at the top of the guidance range.

我們以 6.4% 的服務收入結束了這一財年，這一增長達到了預期範圍的最高水平。

At this speed, we outpaced inflation even with the second half of tougher macro environment, an unfavorable comparison base.

以這樣的速度，儘管下半年宏觀環境更加嚴峻，比較基數不利，但我們的成長速度仍然超過了通膨。

In the fourth quarter, service revenues grew 5.1%.

第四季度，服務收入成長5.1%。

Our revenues were driven by mobile services, which expanded by 6.6% compared to 2023.

我們的收入主要來自行動服務，與 2023 年相比成長了 6.6%。

The mobile highlighted the excellent performance of postpaid, rising close to 9% year over year as a consequence of an expanding customer base with migration and a low churn of 0.7%.

行動業務凸顯了後付費的優異表現，由於客戶群的遷移和 0.7% 的低客戶流失率，後付費業務年增近 9%。

Our EBITDA ended 2024, increasing by 8% when compared to 2023, with another year of margin expansion.

我們的 EBITDA 截至 2024 年，與 2023 年相比成長了 8%，利潤率又擴大了一年。

This show the consistency and ability to operate efficiently.

這體現了一致性和高效運作的能力。

Our proxy for operating free cash flow grew close to 23% year over year.

我們的經營自由現金流指標年增近 23%。

As a percentage of revenue, we reached more than 20% in 2024.

作為收入的百分比，我們在 2024 年將達到 20% 以上。

Innovative offers, continuous infrastructure development, and service improvements supported these strong financial results.

創新的產品、持續的基礎設施開發和服務改善支撐了這些強勁的財務表現。

Behind our 3B strategy lays an idea of delivering what clients value the most.

我們的 3B 策略背後隱藏著提供客戶最重視的東西的理念。

We are focused on providing exceptional customer value through network quality, affordability, and service excellence.

我們致力於透過網路品質、經濟性和卓越服務提供卓越的客戶價值。

Under best network, we focus on expanding 5G coverage across Brazil to migrate traffic and clients and start to impact clients' perception positively.

在最佳網路下，我們專注於擴大巴西的5G覆蓋範圍，以遷移流量和客戶，並開始對客戶的感知產生積極影響。

We have more-than-600-city cover, 20% more than the second player.

我們的覆蓋城市超過600個，比第二名多出20％。

As a result, 5G traffic has more than doubled compared (technical difficulty) the emphasis on technology innovation and network densification to address nature gaps demonstrates a proactive stance in meeting customer needs and expectations, as network quality becomes a core brand attribute.

因此，5G流量相比（技術難度）增加了一倍多，強調技術創新和網路密集化以解決自然差距，顯示了積極主動地滿足客戶需求和期望的立場，因為網路品質已成為核心品牌屬性。

In best offer, 2024 was marked by innovation through content portfolio expansion while guaranteeing data monetization.

在最佳報價中，2024 年的特點是透過擴展內容組合併保證資料貨幣化來進行創新。

We launched new concept in postpaid and prepaid in parallel with turning a historical gap into a differentiation element.

我們同時推出了後付費和預付費的新概念，將歷史差距轉化為差異化要素。

We expect to deepen our distinctiveness with digital ecosystem expansion, and a renewed more-for-more approach.

我們希望透過數位生態系統的擴展和新的「多贏」方法來深化我們的獨特性。

Innovation will again play a role in using next best action tools to personalize and revamp our prepaid go-to-market strategy.

創新將再次發揮作用，利用下一步最佳行動工具來個人化和改進我們的預付費行銷策略。

To deliver the best service through 2024, we use technology in our favor to maintain service quality indicators at the highest standards.

為了在 2024 年之前提供最好的服務，我們將利用技術來將服務品質指標保持在最高標準。

Digitalization continues to be an important source of opportunities.

數位化仍然是重要的機會來源。

And our new app should become a relevant driver for that change.

我們的新應用程式應該成為這項變革的相關推動力。

In 2025, customer journey evolution will continue, aiming at reducing pain points and improving overall quality.

2025年，客戶旅程將繼續演變，旨在減少痛點並提高整體品質。

A seamless experience in our digital channels associated with resolubility features and value-driven management of our clients, showcases TIM's dedication to provide a tailored solution that meet diverse customer needs.

我們的數位管道中的無縫體驗與可溶解性功能以及客戶價值驅動管理相結合，展示了 TIM 致力於提供滿足不同客戶需求的客製化解決方案。

In recent months, we have seen growing concerns about TIM's ability to overcome challenges imposed by its mature peers and new entrants.

最近幾個月，我們看到人們對 TIM 是否有能力克服成熟同行和新進業者帶來的挑戰的擔憂日益增加。

But we are sure of our strength in client attraction and retention, client monetization, and service and experience.

但我們對自己在吸引和保留客戶、客戶貨幣化以及服務和體驗方面的實力充滿信心。

TIM outpaced its peers at growing the postpaid base by 7.3% year over year, reinforcing the idea that net addition should be read relative to the size of the customer base and not only in the absolute number.

TIM 的後付費用戶基數較上年同期增長 7.3%，遠遠超過其同行，這再次證明了淨增值應該相對於客戶群的規模來理解，而不能只從絕對數字來理解。

We were the only large player to defend our market share in postpaid against the new entrants.

我們是唯一一家在後付費市場中抵禦新進業者侵襲、捍衛自己市場佔有率的大型公司。

As we've been explaining, nowadays, this is primarily a game of migration and churn reduction.

正如我們一直解釋的那樣，如今，這主要是一場遷移和減少客戶流失的遊戲。

Thus, maintaining postpaid churn at low level is vital to have a strong client base profile.

因此，維持低水準的後付費客戶流失率對於擁有強大的客戶群至關重要。

Another area of clear strength for TIM is the monetization of its client base.

TIM 的另一個明顯優勢是其客戶群的貨幣化。

We have the highest ARPU of the industry, above BRL31, growing 6% versus 2023.

我們的 ARPU 是業界最高的，超過 31 巴西雷亞爾，較 2023 年成長 6%。

To accomplish this, we combine more-for-more strategy plus upsell tactics to move clients up the ladder and cross-sell initiatives to expand our relevance in clients' pockets.

為了實現這一目標，我們結合「多贏」策略和追加銷售策略來提升客戶地位，並採取交叉銷售措施來擴大我們在客戶心中的影響力。

Higher customer engagement also helps increase loyalty and consequently reduce churn.

更高的客戶參與度也有助於提高忠誠度並從而減少客戶流失。

About 28% of our customers have more than one product.

我們約有 28% 的客戶擁有多種產品。

It is fair to say we have a diverse universe of metrics and sources when it comes to measuring care and service quality.

公平地說，在衡量護理和服務品質時，我們擁有多樣化的指標和來源。

There is the sector regulator, Anatel; private protection agency, like Reclame Aqui; public consumer protection agencies such as Procon and Consumidor.gov; and also internal metrics.

有一個行業監管機構，Anatel；私人保護機構，如 Reclame Aqui；公共消費者保護機構，例如 Procon 和 Consumidor.gov；以及內部指標。

When looking at the numbers from these different sources, it is clear the TIM has an outstanding resolvability being champion in most of them, solving the problem faster and according to clients' expectations.

從這些不同來源所得到的數據來看，很明顯 TIM 在大多數情況下都具有出色的解析度，能夠更快地解決問題並滿足客戶的期望。

We still have room to improve when it concerns the number of complaints.

在投訴數量方面我們仍有改進的空間。

We are the least complained about in some of these sources, but we have yet to close some gaps in others.

在某些來源中，我們受到的抱怨最少，但在其他來源中，我們仍需彌補一些缺陷。

Finally, we have the network evaluation.

最後，我們進行網路評估。

There is no doubt that TIM has the best network in Brazil.

毫無疑問，TIM擁有巴西最好的網路。

We start being present in more places than anybody else, both in 4G and 5G.

無論是在4G還是5G領域，我們的業務範圍都比其他任何人都要廣。

And according to the recent report of OpenSignal, TIM was the most awarded operator in the Mobile Network Experience report.

而根據OpenSignal最近的報告，TIM是行動網路體驗報告中獲獎最多的營運商。

We won 7 out of 14 categories, leaving behind our peers.

我們在14個類別中贏得了7個，把我們的同行遠遠拋在了後面。

And this outstanding result highlight that we are the number one operator in consistent quality for three years in a row.

這一優異成績表明，我們已連續三年成為品質一致性第一的營運商。

According to OpenSignal, this metric connects the most with clients' experience.

據 OpenSignal 稱，該指標與客戶體驗最為密切相關。

The challenge we face for network -- and you know well -- is related to perception.

我們在網路方面面臨的挑戰——你們都知道——與感知有關。

But this is a marathon and not a sprint race.

但這是一場馬拉松，而不是短跑比賽。

Consistency in having the best network metrics and consistency in communicating this leadership to consumer is essential.

持續擁有最佳網路指標並持續向消費者傳達這種領導力至關重要。

In sum, we have our strengths and work to ensure they remain a differentiating factor for TIM.

總之，我們有自己的優勢，並努力確保它們仍然是 TIM 的差異化因素。

At the same time, we transform our weaknesses into opportunities to improve TIM's overall operational performance even further.

同時，我們將自己的弱點轉化為機遇，進一步提高 TIM 的整體營運績效。

Now I will talk about areas of opportunity to generate new revenue streams.

現在我將談論創造新收入來源的機會領域。

They are becoming more and more relevant to our mobile performance.

它們與我們的行動性能變得越來越相關。

And this will be the case for 2025 and the years ahead.

2025 年及未來幾年的情況仍將如此。

Throughout 2024, we were regaining momentum in the development of our digital ecosystem.

在整個 2024 年，我們的數位生態系統發展重新獲得動力。

Our 5G Fund managed by Upload Ventures reached three investees.

我們由Upload Ventures管理的5G基金已獲得三家投資。

And more recently, Minerva Foods became an LP.

最近，Minerva Foods 成為了一家 LP。

The arrival of a new major investor further strengthens the fund's pioneering performance within an innovation ecosystems.

新主要投資者的加入進一步增強了該基金在創新生態系統中的開創性表現。

Customer platform projects are evolving accordingly and bearing fruits in different segments.

客戶平台專案也在相應發展並在不同領域取得成果。

In health, Cartão de TODOS reached more than 160,000 families enrolled over the last six months.

在醫療健康領域，Cartão de TODOS 在過去六個月內惠及超過 16 萬個家庭。

In education, Descomplica maintains a solid rhythm to reach 800,000 enrollments in courses.

在教育領域，Descomplica 保持穩健的發展節奏，課程註冊人數達到 80 萬人。

In digital and entertainment services, the EXA partnership reached an important milestones, with TIM earning the right to subscribe to 27% of the company.

在數位和娛樂服務領域，EXA合作關係取得了重要里程碑，TIM 獲得了認購該公司 27% 股份的權利。

Finally, our mobile apps and data monetization business rapidly expands as we integrate our proprietary inventory with Google and Meta, and maintain a consistent rollout of TIM Insights' new products.

最後，隨著我們將專有庫存與 Google 和 Meta 整合在一起，並持續推出 TIM Insights 的新產品，我們的行動應用和數據貨幣化業務迅速擴展。

Another frontier for revenue growth is B2B IoT.

收入成長的另一個前沿是B2B物聯網。

Since the beginning of this project, we summed more than BRL700 million in contracted revenues.

自這個計畫開始以來，我們累計合約收入超過7億雷亞爾。

In 2024, we added BRL270 million in new contracts.

2024年，我們增加了2.7億雷亞爾的新合約。

Most of these contracts refer to three verticals.

這些合約大部分涉及三個垂直領域。

First one, agribusiness, where we have close to 20 million hectares covered with 4G.

第一個領域是農業領域，我們有近 2000 萬公頃土地覆蓋 4G 網路。

The second one, logistics, with highways representing most of the growth.

第二個領域是物流，其中高速公路佔了大部分的成長。

And our coverage span more than 5,600 kilometers of roads.

我們的覆蓋範圍超過 5,600 公里的道路。

Third one, utilities, for which we sold more than 340,000 smart lighting units with connectivity services.

第三個領域是公用事業，我們為此銷售了超過 340,000 台具有連接服務的智慧照明裝置。

During 2024, we focused on structuring sales processes and internal operations in a proactive approach to capturing market opportunities and becoming a reference among B2B clients of these verticals.

2024 年，我們專注於以積極主動的方式建立銷售流程和內部運營，以抓住市場機會並成為這些垂直行業 B2B 客戶的參考。

For 2025, we need to further develop this opportunity, aggregating solution, and expanding our addressable market.

面向 2025 年，我們需要進一步開發此機會、總結解決方案並擴大我們的潛在市場。

We are working with a robust pipeline of prospective clients across various verticals, so the future looks promising.

我們正在與各個垂直領域的大量潛在客戶合作，因此未來前景光明。

Now we move along to more financial details with our CFO, Andrea.

現在我們與財務長安德里亞 (Andrea) 一起了解更多財務細節。

Hello, everyone.

大家好。

I'm Andrea Viegas, CFO of TIM.

我是 TIM 的財務長 Andrea Viegas。

I'm pleased to share that we ended the year with solid figures overall, confirming our capacity to increase cash generation and create more value for our shareholders.

我很高興地告訴大家，我們今年的整體業績表現穩健，證明了我們有能力增加現金創造能力並為股東創造更多價值。

Once again, we delivered an EBITDA that grew more than inflation, with a 6.2% year-over-year increase in the fourth quarter.

我們再次實現了超過通貨膨脹率的 EBITDA 成長，第四季年增 6.2%。

This contributed to a strong year with an 8% year-over-year increase and a margin reaching 49.6%.

這推動了今年的強勁成長，年增 8%，利潤率達到 49.6%。

After accounting for lease impacts, EBITDA after lease rose by double digits in 2024, with the margin expanding by 1.7 percentage points.

考慮租賃的影響後，2024年租賃後的EBITDA成長了兩位數，利潤率擴大了1.7個百分點。

This was a consequence of our efforts to conclude the decommissioning tower projects faster than expected and to renegotiate our contracts.

這是我們努力比預期更快完成退役塔專案並重新談判合約的結果。

It's worth mentioning that most of the fines were paid with only a small part remaining for 2025.

值得一提的是，大部分罰款都已繳納，只剩一小部分要到2025年才繳清。

Our net income grew double digits for the seventh consecutive quarter, consolidated a year delivering the highest organic net income in our history, reaching more than BRL3 billion.

我們的淨收入連續第七個季度實現兩位數成長，合併後的一年實現了我們歷史上最高的有機淨收入，達到超過 30 億巴西雷亞爾。

Our shareholder remuneration achieved a new level, totaling BRL3.5 billion with a yield of 10%.

我們的股東報酬達到了新的水平，總計35億雷亞爾，收益率為10%。

Our consistent operational performance, combined with discipline in capital allocation, result in CapEx over revenues reaching 17.9%.

我們穩定的營運業績，加上嚴格的資本配置，使得資本支出佔收入比重達到 17.9%。

This drove strong growth in operating cash flow, which increased by almost 23% year over year, with the margin expanding to 20.5% in 2024.

這推動了經營現金流的強勁成長，年增近 23%，利潤率到 2024 年將擴大至 20.5%。

Our balance sheet remains strong, supporting shareholders' remuneration and future projects.

我們的資產負債表依然強勁，支持股東的薪酬和未來項目。

The 2024 results reaffirm our ability and commitment to fulfill our promise even in the face of challenge.

2024 年的業績再次證明了我們即使面臨挑戰也有能力和決心履行承諾。

Now back to Alberto.

現在回到阿爾貝托。

Before we conclude our results discussion, it is worth recapping some ESG developments in 2024, confirming TIM's commitment and highlighting partnership and projects that generate positive social impact.

在我們結束結果討論之前，值得回顧一下 2024 年的一些 ESG 發展，確認 TIM 的承諾並強調產生積極社會影響的合作夥伴關係和項目。

Under the partnership with Gerando Falcões, we have transformed Favela Marte into a fully connected 5G community, illustrated TIM's dedication to bridging the digital divide.

在與 Gerando Falcões 的合作下，我們將 Favela Marte 改造成一個完全互聯的 5G 社區，體現了 TIM 致力於縮小數位落差的決心。

As always, our ESG initiatives are embedded in the company broad strategy.

與往常一樣，我們的 ESG 舉措已融入公司的整體策略中。

So we are testing FWA solution, learning how customers and network behave in an actual network condition.

因此，我們正在測試 FWA 解決方案，以了解客戶和網路在實際網路條件下的行為。

In addition, we continue to perform outstandingly in multiple indexes and certifications.

此外，我們在多項指數和認證中繼續表現優異。

By integrating social responsibility into its core strategy, TIM enhances its brand reputation and contributes to long-term value creation.

TIM將社會責任融入核心策略，提升了品牌聲譽並為長期價值創造做出了貢獻。

To conclude this section, it is worth highlighting that we met all of our targets.

總結本節，值得強調的是，我們達成了所有目標。

We stood at the top of the service revenue guidance range with excellent postpaid performance; check.

我們憑藉著優異的後付費表現，位居服務收入指導範圍的頂端；查看。

EBITDA grew above revenues with margin expansions; check.

EBITDA 成長超過收入，利潤率也有所提高；查看。

CapEx remained flat in the middle of the range; check.

資本支出保持平穩，處於中間水平；查看。

Operating cash flow with a robust performance grew by more than 20%; check.

經營性現金流表現強勁，成長20%以上；查看。

Last but not least, shareholder remuneration is confirmed at BRL3.5 billion, following our proposal for the shareholder meeting to approve BRL2 billion in dividends; check.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，根據我們向股東大會提議批准 20 億雷亞爾的股息，股東薪酬確認為 35 億雷亞爾；查看。

Looking ahead, setting the stage for TIM's strategic direction in the coming years will enforce our focus on sustainable growth by adding new revenue opportunities and putting renewed efforts into efficiency, reflecting a commitment to long-term value creation.

展望未來，為 TIM 未來幾年的策略方向奠定基礎將透過增加新的收入機會和重新努力提高效率來加強我們對永續成長的關注，體現對長期價值創造的承諾。

Our updated plan reflects changes in macro and telecom market conditions.

我們更新的計劃反映了宏觀和電信市場條件的變化。

We evolved our priorities to extract the most from our four strategic pillars: mobile, B2B, efficiency, and broadband.

我們調整了優先事項，以最大限度地發揮四大戰略支柱的作用：行動、B2B、效率和寬頻。

Each area is supported by specific strategies aimed at, enhance our value proposition in mobile, double down on B2B, extracting the most from our assets and resources, while monitoring for opportunities to complement or transform parts of our business.

每個領域都得到特定策略的支持，旨在增強我們在行動領域的價值主張，加倍投入 B2B 業務，最大限度地利用我們的資產和資源，同時尋找補充或改變部分業務的機會。

The emphasis on people, society, and the environment underscores TIM commitment to responsible business practices.

對人、社會和環境的重視凸顯了 TIM 對負責任的商業實踐的承諾。

By prioritizing these areas, TIM aims to strengthen its market position and drive sustainable growth in a competitive landscape.

透過優先考慮這些領域，TIM 旨在加強其市場地位並在競爭環境中推動永續成長。

With that, we introduced a new guidance for '25, '27, remembering that our projections are always subject to revisions in the face of material changes in the macro environment and business development assumptions.

為此，我們推出了針對『25 年和『27 年』的新指引，同時牢記，面對宏觀環境和業務發展假設的重大變化，我們的預測總是會進行修改。

Our strategic guidelines for sustainable growth focus on revenue and EBITDA progress with margin expansion.

我們的永續成長策略方針著重於收入和 EBITDA 的成長以及利潤率的擴大。

This is a combination of mobile core evolution, increased relevance of new revenue streams, and renewed efforts in efficiency.

這是移動核心的發展、新收入來源的相關性增加以及效率的進一步提高等因素的結合。

Our investment plan points to a flattish CapEx despite ForEx oscillation and maintenance of the leadership status of our network.

我們的投資計劃表明，儘管外匯波動較大，但我們的網路領導地位仍將保持穩定。

Once again, this reflects a commitment to efficiency and operational excellence.

這再次體現了對效率和卓越營運的承諾。

These dynamics translate into strong cash flow evolution with margin expansion.

這些動態轉化為強勁的現金流變化和利潤率的擴大。

And this cash being generated is returning to shareholders in the form of interest on equity and dividends.

產生的現金以股權利息和股息的形式返還給股東。

Once more, we are upping our targets for that as well.

再一次，我們也提高了我們的目標。

Reaching the end of this video, I want to thank our entire team for delivering such robust results.

在這段影片結束時，我想感謝我們整個團隊取得如此強勁的成果。

We endured main challenges and found solutions to keep our ship in the right direction and running at a solid pace.

我們經歷了主要挑戰並找到了解決方案，使我們的航船保持正確的方向和穩健的運行。

Now let's move to the live Q&A session.

現在讓我們進入現場問答環節。

(video ends)

（影片結束）

Thank you, Alberto.

謝謝你，阿爾貝托。

Before proceeding to the Q&A, I would like to pass the floor to Alberto Griselli for initial remarks.

在進入問答環節之前，我想先請 Alberto Griselli 作初步演講。

Please, Mr. Alberto, the floor is yours.

阿爾貝托先生，請您發言。

Thank you, and good morning, everybody.

謝謝大家，早安。

Before we start the Q&A, just a remark on the material fact we just disclosed about C6 Bank.

在我們開始問答之前，我們先就剛剛披露的有關 C6 銀行的重要事實做一下評論。

Basically, we enter into an agreement that settles all the disputes, terminates the partnership, and monetize our participation subject to some regulatory approvals.

基本上，我們達成協議，解決所有爭議，終止合作關係，並在獲得一些監管部門批准的情況下將我們的參與貨幣化。

The settlement confirms the strategic importance of customer platform initiatives in generating value of the company and its shareholders.

該協議確認了客戶平台計劃對於為公司及其股東創造價值的戰略重要性。

We will continue to work to expand the ecosystem of partnership, including new opportunities now in the financial services.

我們將繼續致力於擴大合作夥伴生態系統，包括金融服務領域的新機會。

Additional details of the financial economic impacts of this deal will be disclosed in due time.

該交易的財務經濟影響的更多細節將在適當時候披露。

So we can now pass to the live Q&A session, please.

現在我們可以進入現場問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Marcelo Santos, JPMorgan.

（操作員指示） Marcelo Santos，摩根大通。

Hi, good morning, Alberto, Andrea, Vicente.

嗨，早安，Alberto、Andrea、Vicente。

Thank you very much for taking the call and taking the questions.

非常感謝您接聽電話並回答問題。

I have two.

我有兩個。

First, on the guidance, what are the main macroeconomic assumptions embedded -- like perhaps inflation effect, what are you considering to put those numbers?

首先，關於該指導意見，其中包含的主要宏觀經濟假設是什麼——例如通膨效應，您考慮如何計算這些數字？

And the second (technical difficulty) you could discuss a bit the outlook for prepaid, and if there are relevant initiatives that you were targeting to, perhaps, improve the trends that you can control?

第二點（技術難題），您能否簡單談談預付費的前景，以及您是否有針對性的相關舉措，以改善您可以控制的趨勢？

Thank you.

謝謝。

I'm sorry, Marcelo; I was in mute.

對不起，馬塞洛；我啞口無言。

So when we look at the guidance, basically, this has been elaborated -- our budget has been elaborated a few months ago when the situation was a bit easier on inflation, specifically on the other elements we are sort of aligned in terms of ForEx and GDP growth.

因此，當我們查看指導意見時，基本上，這已經得到了詳細闡述——我們的預算是在幾個月前製定的，當時通膨情況稍微好一些，特別是在外匯和 GDP 增長方面的其他要素方面，我們已經達成一致。

But since the guidance has been issued basically today, over the last week, we've been working with more -- with assumption on inflation that are in line with the current trends, the one that we are seeing now.

但自從今天（過去一周）基本上發布指導意見以來，我們一直在進行更多的工作——通膨的假設與當前趨勢一致，也就是我們現在看到的趨勢。

Of course, there is a lot of volatility of inflation.

當然，通貨膨脹存在很大的波動。

A few weeks ago, we were below 5.

幾週前，我們的數字還低於 5。

Now we are below 5.

現在我們低於5了。

So we need to deal with this.

所以我們需要解決這個問題。

We are used to deal with this since we operate in Brazil for a long time.

由於我們在巴西經營了很長時間，所以對這種情況已經習慣了。

But basically, the main difference was in inflation when we prepared the budget.

但基本上，我們編制預算時的主要差異在於通貨膨脹。

And we updated this on more actual numbers as we issued the guidance today or yesterday night.

我們在今天或昨晚發布指南時根據更多實際數字進行了更新。

When it comes to prepaid, so our performance are basically driven by a number of factors.

當談到預付費時，我們的業績基本上受到多種因素的驅動。

The first one is related to the migration of customers from prepaid to control.

第一個與客戶從預付費到控制付費的轉變有關。

So this is part of our strategy.

這是我們戰略的一部分。

And of course, these drain revenues from one side to move in accretive way on the other side.

當然，這些會從一方消耗收入，從而以增值的方式轉移到另一方。

So the benefits of doing this is that the revenue becomes a larger revenue in postpaid, and our ability to monetize postpaid and control is better than in prepaid.

因此，這樣做的好處是，後付費的收入變得更大，我們對後付費的貨幣化和控制能力比預付費更好。

Then there is another factor that is basically related to everybody, every -- ourselves and our competitors perform this strategy.

然後還有另一個因素，基本上與每個人、每個人有關——我們自己和我們的競爭對手都執行這項策略。

So if you look at the recharge market as a whole, it's decreasing over time.

所以如果你從整體上看充值市場，它會隨著時間的推移而減少。

And so this is decreasing as the market.

隨著市場規模的擴大，這一數字也在下降。

So this is the context where we operate.

這就是我們開展業務的環境。

In our case, in the fourth quarter, we have a tougher comparative base.

就我們的情況而言，在第四季度，我們擁有更嚴峻的比較基礎。

Because in the same quarter of the previous year, we were issuing a price update from BRL15 to BRL17.

因為在去年同期，我們發布的價格更新是從 15 巴西雷亞爾到 17 巴西雷亞爾。

So this is explaining the intensity of the decline for the last quarter.

這就解釋了上個季度下滑的強度。

And just anticipating a bit, also the first quarter of this year, it's a tougher competitive basis versus the first quarter of last year.

稍微預測一下，今年第一季的競爭基礎比去年第一季更加激烈。

Because this year, for example, we have [Carnival] in March.

因為例如今年我們在三月有[狂歡節]。

And this tends to reduce the number of available days for recharge.

這往往會減少可供充電的天數。

Having said that, we have been working for a while now on revamp or turnaround of our prepaid business.

話雖如此，我們現在已經致力於改善或扭轉我們的預付費業務。

We launched a new offer, a new communication campaign, as you probably remember, last year.

您可能還記得，去年我們推出了一項新的服務、一項新的溝通活動。

And so we are working across the board on the offer, on the communication, and on the channel, and our own customer base to increase the performance of prepaid going forward.

因此，我們正在全面努力改善報價、溝通、管道和我們自己的客戶群，以提高預付費業務未來的績效。

This takes some time, but our commercial team is fully focused on that.

這需要一些時間，但我們的商業團隊全神貫注於此。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Bernardo Guttmann, XP.

貝爾納多·古特曼，XP。

Hi, good morning, everyone.

大家早安。

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Actually, I have two on my side.

事實上，我這邊有兩個。

The first question is related to CapEx.

第一個問題與資本支出有關。

Your guidance seems quite fair.

您的指導似乎非常公平。

But it's somewhat surprising that CapEx remains stable, leading to a decrease in CapEx to sales in the coming years.

但有點令人驚訝的是，資本支出維持穩定，導致未來幾年資本支出與銷售額的比率下降。

We have already discussed the topic of greater efficiency and the structural change in the industry.

我們已經討論過提高效率和行業結構變化的話題。

But it would be interesting to understand more about the company's main efficiency levers.

但進一步了解該公司的主要效率槓桿將會很有趣。

Is this level sustainable considering a higher exchange rates?

考慮到更高的匯率，這個水準是否可持續？

And the second one is about your fiber operations.

第二個問題是關於你們的光纖操作。

You mentioned that you are open to multiple options.

您曾提到您願意接受多種選擇。

I understand that the market is more challenging today and more competitive.

我知道，如今的市場挑戰更大，競爭也更激烈。

But valuations also reflect these dynamics to some extent.

但估值在某種程度上也反映了這些動態。

In this context, what is your appetite in this segment?

在此背景下，您對這領域有何興趣？

Would you consider selling the current operation as well, or is that off the table?

您會考慮出售目前的業務，或者這不考慮嗎？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, Bernardo, let me go for the first one on CapEx.

好的，貝爾納多，讓我先談談資本支出 (CapEx)。

So when you look on CapEx, the -- we have a number of levers, and I will start with the easiest one.

因此，當您查看資本支出時，我們有許多槓桿，我將從最簡單的槓桿開始。

So if you look at CapEx, first of all, a big chunk of this CapEx is network CapEx.

因此，如果你看一下資本支出，首先，這部分資本支出的很大一部分是網路資本支出。

So as you know, we have been able to reach the largest 4G coverage a couple of years ago.

如你所知，幾年前我們就已經能夠達到最大的4G覆蓋範圍。

We closed 2024 with the largest 5G coverage also.

我們也以最大的 5G 覆蓋範圍結束了 2024 年。

And once you look at the drivers of this cost going forward, primarily, it's less about coverage, and it's more about the quality of service and capacity.

一旦你了解了未來這成本的驅動因素，你會發現，主要不是覆蓋範圍的問題，而是服務品質和容量的問題。

So this is the main driver.

這是主要驅動因素。

How do we address the efficiency of the CapEx deployment, while maintaining the leadership in quality of the network service that we offer because that's the trade-off?

我們如何解決資本支出部署的效率問題，同時保持我們提供的網路服務品質的領先地位，因為這是一個權衡？

The first one is primarily related to the way we negotiated already with our main providers of the 5G and network services, whereby we put together -- last year, we discussed this, I think, primarily one-to-one calls -- a quite competitive tender where we were quite successful in lowering the TCO of our network cost.

第一個主要與我們與 5G 和網路服務主要供應商的談判方式有關，透過這種方式，我們——去年，我們討論了這個問題，我想主要是一對一的通話——進行了一次相當有競爭力的招標，我們非常成功地降低了網路成本的 TCO。

And by doing this, of course, we took some execution activities on our side, like the swap of the network in Sao Paulo that we are shifting from one vendor to another vendor.

當然，透過這樣做，我們採取了一些執行活動，例如將聖保羅的網路從一個供應商轉移到另一個供應商。

By doing so, we optimize the TCO.

透過這樣做，我們優化了 TCO。

And so when you look at the numbers, $1 in 2025 will deliver more than $1 in 2024 because of the economies that we achieved.

因此，當你看到這些數字時，你會發現，由於我們實現的經濟效益，2025 年 1 美元帶來的收益將比 2024 年 1 美元帶來的收益更多。

So this is the first driver.

這是第一個驅動因素。

And this is primarily achieved because it's something that we did last year.

我們之所以能達成這項成就，主要是因為我們去年就做了這件事。

The second one, it's primarily related to the assertiveness of the investment.

第二，主要跟投資的主動性有關。

So we've got a quite strong methodology, whereby we allocate CapEx where we have -- or we expect to have commercial advantages.

因此，我們有一個相當強大的方法，透過該方法我們將資本支出分配到我們擁有或預計具有商業優勢的地方。

And we call this AAA approach.

我們稱之為 AAA 方法。

And so we align everything -- CapEx, commercial, and communication -- in order to increase the efficiency of our capital allocation.

因此，我們將一切（資本支出、商業和通訊）協調起來，以提高資本配置的效率。

Then you have your last comments about the risk of the ForEx related to our contract.

最後，請您對與我們的合約相關的外匯風險提出一些看法。

I will pass this to Andrea to just explain a bit how it works for us.

我會將此傳遞給 Andrea，讓她稍微解釋一下它對我們是如何運作的。

Hi, Bernardo.

你好，貝納多。

We have a minimum exposure to exchange rates.

我們對匯率的風險敞口最低。

Consider that the majority of our contracts have an exchange rate bands.

考慮到我們的大多數合約都有一個匯率區間。

So as I mentioned, we have a very little exposure to fluctuation of the exchange rates.

正如我剛才提到的，我們很少受到匯率波動的影響。

Going to your second question about fiber, so a few comments before articulating the answer on the non-organic option.

回到你關於纖維的第二個問題，因此在闡明非有機選擇的答案之前，先說幾點評論。

So if you look at the market itself, as you rightly pointed out, the market is very competitive.

因此，如果你看看市場本身，正如你正確指出的那樣，市場競爭非常激烈。

There are a number of reports from the sales side, highlighting this every month.

銷售方面有許多報告，每月都會重點介紹這一點。

So there is a lot of competitive especially on price.

因此競爭非常激烈，特別是在價格方面。

So it's not very attractive, irrespective of valuation, because it's difficult to address this without a stronger and widespread consolidation process.

因此，無論估值如何，它都不是很有吸引力，因為如果沒有更強大和更廣泛的整合過程，就很難解決這個問題。

That is not happening at the end of the day.

到頭來這並沒有發生。

For us, it's a small business because it's below 4% of revenues, and it's dilutive on our free cash flow generation.

對我們來說，這是一項小業務，因為它的營收佔比低於 4%，並且會稀釋我們的自由現金流。

So our organic stance is basically to optimize the operation.

因此，我們的有機立場基本上是優化營運。

Of course, when we say that we are open at all options, you have the option; one extreme where we consolidate and on the other extreme, where we sell.

當然，當我們說我們對所有選擇都持開放態度時，您就有選擇；在一個極端，我們進行合併；在另一個極端，我們進行出售。

And there are a number of variety of options in the middle.

中間還有多種多樣的選擇。

And when we say that we are open on all of them, that we are looking at all of them.

當我們說我們對所有這些都持開放態度時，我們實際上正在審視所有這些。

And so we just need to find the right target at the right moment to move forward with one of these options.

因此，我們只需要在正確的時刻找到正確的目標，並推進其中一個選項。

Okay, very clear.

好的，非常清楚。

Alberto and Andrea, thank you.

阿爾貝托和安德里亞，謝謝你們。

Leonardo Olmos, UBS.

瑞銀的萊昂納多·奧爾莫斯（Leonardo Olmos）。

Hi, everyone.

大家好。

Good morning.

早安.

Thank you for taking the questions.

感謝您回答這些問題。

I have a couple of them.

我有幾個。

The first one is regarding the C6 partnership.

第一個是關於C6合作關係。

I know you cannot disclose how much actual -- how much are you actually monetizing of that partnership.

我知道你不能透露實際上從該合作關係中獲得了多少利潤。

We understand that.

我們明白這一點。

But it will probably be below what was on the balance sheet, right?

但它可能會低於資產負債表上的水平，對嗎？

So we may see a write-off that may be purely -- that will likely be noncash.

因此，我們可能會看到純粹的非現金註銷。

But could that affect dividends even though it is noncash, even in a nonrecurring base?

但這是否會影響股息，即使是非現金，甚至是非經常性股息？

So that's my question on the C6 impact in dividends.

這就是我對 C6 對股利的影響的問題。

And the second one, unrelated, is if you could discuss lease.

第二個問題與此無關，您是否可以討論租賃。

How much of the leasing is adjusted by IGP-M?

有多少租賃是由 IGP-M 調整的？

And what are other inflation metrics that are used to adjust leasing?

還有哪些通膨指標可用於調整租賃？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Leonardo, hi.

萊昂納多，你好。

So I will take the first one, and then I will pass the floor to Andrea for the leasing question.

因此，我將回答第一個問題，然後我將把發言權交給安德里亞，討論租賃問題。

On the first one, actually, the monetization factor is there.

就第一個問題而言，實際上存在貨幣化因素。

So we are talking about BRL270 million in gross revenues that have been accrued over the length of the partnership and the other BRL520 million.

因此，我們談論的是合作期間累積的總收入2.7億雷亞爾，以及另外的5.2億雷亞爾。

And this is a positive impact on our cash.

這對我們的現金產生了正面的影響。

And I think that here, the answer is, we always say that we are going to generate more cash over time.

我認為，答案是，我們總是說，隨著時間的推移，我們將產生更多的現金。

So our cash flow are expanding, and this is going to be a positive contribution on expanding.

因此我們的現金流正在擴大，這將對擴張產生積極的貢獻。

And when it comes to the expanding cash flow, as you see in our guidance, we are increasing shareholder remuneration, concentrated in dividend and interest and on equity.

至於擴大現金流，正如您在我們的指引中所看到的，我們正在增加股東報酬，主要集中在股息、利息和股權上。

And therefore, we got something more now coming to us over the course of 2025, that was not in our guidance.

因此，我們在 2025 年期間會得到更多的東西，這不在我們的指導範圍內。

So the approach is always the same.

因此方法總是一樣的。

If -- we don't distribute 100% -- you know this -- because we are looking at opportunities in some verticals and some our business lines.

如果 - 我們的分銷率沒有達到 100％ - 你知道這一點 - 因為我們正在尋找一些垂直行業和一些業務線中的機會。

But it's a positive on our cash profile.

但這對我們的現金狀況有正面作用。

Hi, Leonardo.

你好，萊昂納多。

Regarding to leasing, as you know, these items, the major impact that we have in inflation.

關於租賃，如您所知，這些項目對通貨膨脹的影響最大。

We are continuing to negotiate all our contracts.

我們正在繼續就所有合約進行談判。

And now we have a part in EPCA and a part in

現在我們在 EPCA 和

[EJPM].

[電子雜誌]。

But the major part is EPCA.

但主要部分是 EPCA。

But we are continuing to have negotiation, considering that we ended the commission program with the sites that came from Oi.

但考慮到我們已經終止了與來自 Oi 的場地的委託計劃，我們仍在繼續談判。

But Oi increased the network related to 5G, so we still have space to negotiate this contract.

但Oi增加了5G相關的網絡，所以我們還有空間來談判這個合約。

Understood.

明白了。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

So obviously, Andrea, the guidance already assumes all the current inflation situation, right?

所以很明顯，安德里亞，該指導方針已經考慮了當前的所有通膨狀況，對嗎？

Right.

正確的。

Very good.

非常好。

And very good answer on the dividend, Alberto.

阿爾貝托，關於股利的回答非常好。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Have a good day.

祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Vitor Tomita, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的維托·富米塔 (Vitor Tomita)。

Hello.

你好。

Good morning, all, and thanks for taking our questions.

大家早安，感謝您回答我們的提問。

We have two questions from our side.

我們有兩個問題。

The first one is on the guidance.

第一個是關於指導。

If you could give us a bit more color on the drivers for further margin expansion, given that your profitability is already quite high for the sector and given the inflationary pressures ahead.

鑑於貴公司的獲利能力在該行業已經相當高，並且面臨未來的通膨壓力，您是否可以向我們詳細介紹進一步擴大利潤率的驅動因素？

And our second question would be on the -- more on the balance sheet side.

我們的第二個問題是關於資產負債表方面的問題。

We have noticed the receivables increasing faster than revenue continually over the last three quarters, even though receivables had been growing more in line with revenue prior to that.

我們注意到，過去三個季度應收帳款的成長速度持續快於收入的成長速度，儘管在此之前應收帳款的成長速度一直與收入的成長速度保持一致。

Could you give more -- give us some more detail on the dynamics for receivables?

您能否提供更多有關應收帳款動態的詳細資訊？

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Hi, Vitor.

你好，維托爾。

Related to the guidance, as the previous guidance, we are confirming that we increased the EBITDA margin revenue.

與指引相關，與先前的指引一樣，我們確認增加了 EBITDA 利潤率收入。

We are -- we will do this with the continuing of our productivity.

我們將繼續提高生產力來做到這一點。

We have a very good result in the last quarter in margin related.

我們在上個季度的利潤率方面取得了非常好的成績。

And the margin [expansion] will continue to happen in 2025.

且利潤率[擴大]仍將在2025年繼續成長。

This will come with our continued focus to working zero-based approach.

這伴隨著我們繼續專注於零基工作方法。

We are looking for new opportunity in digitalizing our process, also, as I mentioned, [recognition] of the contracts that is related to inflation and continues to see opportunities in (inaudible) initiatives.

我們正在尋找數位化流程的新機會，同時，正如我所提到的，[識別]與通貨膨脹相關的合同，並繼續在（聽不清）舉措中看到機會。

Related to the free cash flow, the second question about the increase in receivables, this is the seasonality of our dynamics.

與自由現金流相關，第二個問題關於應收帳款的增加，這是我們動態的季節性。

Remember that we have our first semester of the year with seasonality and the second semester with another salary.

請記住，我們一年中的第一學期有季節性，第二學期有另一份薪水。

This is inside our expectations.

這在我們的預料之中。

We don't have any kind of extraordinary effects that affect this.

我們沒有任何特殊效應會對此造成影響。

I don't know if I addressed your question.

我不知道我是否回答了你的問題。

Just a quick follow-up.

只是一個快速的跟進。

Looking at the previous quarters, there was already an increase in receivables in the second and third quarter.

回顧前幾個季度，第二季和第三季應收帳款已經增加。

So thinking more about the underlying trends there than just the seasonality.

因此，要更多地考慮那裡的潛在趨勢，而不僅僅是季節性。

No, sorry.

不，抱歉。

If it's the seasonality of what?

如果是季節性的話，那是什麼？

No, the seasonality of the -- because you see an increase in the third quarter and the fourth quarter, right?

不，季節性——因為你看到第三季和第四季有所成長，對嗎？

Yes.

是的。

So this covers the second semester.

這涵蓋了第二學期的內容。

And we have -- also, we have an increase in the IoT receivables because we increase the B2B.

而且，由於我們增加了 B2B，我們的物聯網應收帳款也有所增加。

And the B2B have a very different dynamic from the mobile, the consumer mobile.

B2B 與行動、消費者移動有著非常不同的動態。

So we will see a new increase, but this is related to the increase of the IoT revenues.

因此我們將看到新的成長，但這與物聯網收入的成長有關。

Understood.

明白了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Phani Kanumuri, HSBC.

匯豐銀行的 Phani Kanumuri。

Hi, all.

大家好。

So my first question is related to your revenue guidance.

我的第一個問題與您的收入指導有關。

Is it fair to assume that most of this revenue growth that you have is coming from postpaid growth, considering that your fixed segment and prepaid segment continue to be under pressure?

考慮到您的固定業務和預付費業務持續面臨壓力，是否可以假設您的大部分收入成長來自後付費成長？

And what part of -- what percentage is actually attributed to the new initiatives that you have in terms of the revenue guidance?

就收入預期而言，有多少比例實際上歸因於您的新舉措？

The second one is, last year, there has been more challenges in terms of pricing up and giving more for more.

第二，去年我們在定價和更多優惠方面面臨更多挑戰。

Do we see that challenges continue this year?

我們是否認為今年的挑戰還會持續？

And is a price up possible for the next few years?

未來幾年價格有可能上漲嗎？

Any of you.

你們任何一個人。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, Phani.

好的，Phani。

I will take the two.

我要這兩份。

So when it comes to the growth drivers for the revenues going forward, there are a number of drivers that we are considering.

因此，當談到未來收入的成長動力時，我們正在考慮許多因素。

So one of the -- big one is clearly postpaid, we're being performing well over many quarters.

其中最重要的一點顯然是後付費，我們在多個季度都表現良好。

And we foresee this to happen going forward, driven by the price adjustment that we do and that will come a bit more on this on the rationality of the market as we see it now.

我們預計這種情況將在未來發生，這將受到我們進行的價格調整的推動，並將更多地取決於我們現在看到的市場合理性。

The prepaid-to-control migration, that will continue.

預付到控制的遷移將會繼續。

And the intra-postpaid migration that is happening at double-digit rates, and that continues to drive revenues up.

而內部後付費遷移正以兩位數的速度進行，並持續推動營收成長。

So yes, postpaid it's an important driver for revenue growth.

所以是的，後付費是收入成長的重要驅動力。

I think it is fair to add that there are two other important business lines in the revenue growth.

我認為值得補充的是，營收成長中還有另外兩條重要的業務線。

One is related to the customer platform strategy that we just discussed at the beginning of the call, whereby we see monetization opportunities in the partnership that we are running, plus the new one that we are building.

一個與​​我們在通話開始時討論的客戶平台策略有關，我們在正在進行的合作夥伴關係以及正在建立的新合作夥伴關係中看到了盈利機會。

If you look at Cartão de TODOS, for example -- this is something that we launched some time ago -- we have been tweaking the value proposition.

例如，如果你看一下 Cartão de TODOS——這是我們不久前推出的產品——我們一直在調整價值主張。

And in the last six months, we brought in 160,000 subscribers.

在過去的六個月裡，我們吸引了 16 萬名訂閱者。

So it's a good number in our own assessment in terms of the progress of the things that we are doing.

因此，就我們所做事情的進展而言，我們自己評估這是一個不錯的數字。

We are open again to work on financial services.

我們已重新開始提供金融服務。

This is another large set of parties that we can work on.

這是另一組我們可以開展工作的大型政黨。

Then we got the energy; that is another priority.

然後我們就得到了能量；這是另一項優先事項。

So the overall customer platform can contribute in our revenue growth going forward.

因此，整體客戶平台可以促進我們未來的收入成長。

The third one is the B2B business line, where we have been capturing revenues over the last two years.

第三個是B2B業務線，過去兩年我們一直在該業務上獲取收入。

So it started basically the IoT solution from zero.

所以它基本上是從零開始推出物聯網解決方案。

And we will continue to push this going forward in the verticals that we identified, including an expansion of the portfolio and capabilities that we are offering to our customers.

我們將繼續在已確定的垂直領域中推動這項進程，包括擴大我們為客戶提供的產品組合和功能。

So obviously, when you look at this, three lines are the main revenue growth drivers.

顯然，從這個角度來看，三條線路是主要的收入成長動力。

When you look, specifically, on mobile and the rationality of the market, we see and I see still a constructive market context.

當你具體觀察行動市場和市場合理性時，我們看到並且我仍然看到一個建設性的市場環境。

It is true that last year, there has been more -- let's say, has been a bit more erratic in the second quarter.

確實，去年第二季的情況更加不穩定。

So especially one of our main competitor has been rethinking some of the price up that have been implemented.

因此，我們的主要競爭對手之一一直在重新考慮已經實施的一些價格上漲政策。

It went down.

它掉下來了。

But at the end of the day, it went up at the end of the year.

但到年底時，價格還是漲了。

So differently from last year -- and you are right on this.

與去年相比有很大不同——這一點你是對的。

At this time in time of last year, we were executing a front book price upgrade that is not foreseen at this point in time in the first half.

去年此時，我們正在執行前期書籍價格提升，這在上半年的這個時候是無法預見的。

But the situation may change because we still believe that the market environment is being rational.

但情況可能會改變，因為我們仍然相信市場環境是理性的。

Having said that, the back book price increase are happening between the first quarter and second quarter like last year.

話雖如此，但舊書價格的上漲與去年一樣，在第一季和第二季之間發生。

And I think this has been executed.

我認為這已經執行了。

The fact that we are not upgrading front book prices at the same time or at the beginning of the year can produce some, let's put it this way, some churn temporary increase versus last year because we are disaligning customer base and gross additions.

事實上，我們並沒有在同一時間或在年初提高前書價格，這樣一來，與去年相比，客戶流失率可能會暫時增加，因為我們沒有調整客戶群和總增量。

But it's something that we know how to face.

但我們知道如何面對。

(multiple speakers) Phani.

（多位發言者）Phani。

Yeah, thanks.

是的，謝謝。

Okay, cool.

好的，很酷。

César Davanço, Santander.

塞薩爾·達瓦尼奧，桑坦德。

Hi, team, good morning.

大家好，早安。

First of all, congrats on the hardcore results.

首先，恭喜你取得的優異成績。

My first question is regarding revenue growth and your revenue growth expectations.

我的第一個問題是關於收入成長以及您的收入成長預期。

I would like to understand how much of this guidance comes from -- would come from price increases?

我想了解這些指導方針有多少來自於——來自價格上漲？

And regarding this, how do you see the company evolving in a competitive scenario?

關於這一點，您認為公司在競爭環境中會如何發展？

Okay, so do you imagine TIM potentially be more aggressive?

好的，那麼您認為 TIM 可能更具攻擊性嗎？

And my second question is regarding the C6 partnership.

我的第二個問題是關於 C6 合作夥伴關係。

As you mentioned, this opened a path -- the end of this partnership opens a path for you to operate again on the financial sector.

正如您所說，這開闢了一條道路——這次合作關係的結束為您再次在金融領域開展業務開闢了一條道路。

Do you have anything on mind, anything you can disclose on this topic?

關於這個主題，您有什麼想法嗎？

Okay, César.

好的，凱撒。

So let's address the first one.

因此讓我們先討論第一個問題。

So as I said, we see the market rationality still in place, with some more erratic behavior in the last half of 2024.

正如我所說，我們看到市場理性仍然存在，但 2024 年下半年會出現一些更不穩定的行為。

We are not planning to be more aggressive.

我們不打算採取更激進的行動。

We tend to try to be more intelligent in the way we monetize our customer base.

我們試圖以更聰明的方式將我們的客戶群貨幣化。

And so I don't see more aggressiveness on our side.

因此我並不認為我們方面會表現出更多的攻擊性。

If you look at the drivers for revenue growth on mobile, especially on postpaid, we generally look at a balanced growth pattern that combines customer base growth and ARPU growth.

如果你看看行動收入成長的驅動因素，特別是後付費收入成長的驅動因素，我們通常會看到一種結合客戶群成長和 ARPU 成長的平衡成長模式。

And if you look at the way we grew in 2024, so if you look at the [pay-per-care] analysis of the evolution of our revenues from 2024, you will see that we moved on a quite balanced way in between the volume impact and the price impact.

如果你看看我們在 2024 年的成長方式，如果你看看我們 2024 年收入變化的 [按次付費] 分析，你會發現我們在數量影響和價格影響之間走了一條相當平衡的道路。

And you can see also that we managed to grow faster than our competitors in the postpaid.

您也可以看到，我們在後付費領域比競爭對手實現了更快的成長。

So price adjustments are important because they are an element of the P factor.

因此價格調整很重要，因為它們是 P 因素的一個要素。

But what we are aiming at is a balanced growth in between quantity, price -- within price, price adjustments are important -- as well as intra plan migration.

但我們的目標是數量和價格之間的平衡成長——在價格範圍內，價格調整很重要——以及計畫內遷移。

You don't see this because it's not disclosed.

您看不到這個，因為它沒有被披露。

But the number of pure postpaid is increasing significantly because we are moving control also to postpaid.

但純後付費的數量正在大幅增加，因為我們也將控制權轉移到後付費。

And this has a positive impact on revenue growth for postpaid.

這對後付費收入成長產生了正面影響。

So it's a combination of this fact.

所以這是這些事實的組合。

On fintech, going to the second question, is we just closed -- we just set with C6.

關於金融科技，第二個問題是，我們剛結束——我們剛剛與 C6 達成協議。

So we now analyze the options that are available in the market in the coming months.

因此我們現在分析未來幾個月市場上有哪些選擇。

Clearly, the combination of financial services and telco is quite powerful.

顯然，金融服務和電信服務的結合是相當強大的。

We believe it's powerful.

我們相信它的力量十分強大。

So we believe it can be material again.

因此我們相信它可以再次成為現實。

And we will start working on this as the settlement with the previous partner is completed.

在與先前的合作夥伴達成和解後，我們將著手處理此事。

Perfect.

完美的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Carlos de Legarreta, Itaú BBA.

卡洛斯·德·勒加雷塔 (Carlos de Legarreta)，義大利 BBA。

Hi, good morning, Alberto and team.

嗨，早上好，Alberto 和團隊。

Two very quick questions.

兩個非常簡單的問題。

The first one on cost and expenses.

第一個是關於成本和費用。

You're actually decreasing the selling and marketing expenses, both year over year and quarter over quarter, while growing revenues.

實際上，你在增加收入的同時，銷售和行銷費用正在逐年減少、季度環比下降。

Can you help us make sense of that, especially in this particular competitive context?

您能幫助我們理解這一點嗎，特別是在這種特殊的競爭環境下？

And secondly, just a follow-up on C6, do you have any timing as to when you can actually receive the proceeds from this ending of this partnership?

其次，只是關於 C6 的後續問題，您是否知道何時可以實際收到此次合作關係結束後的收益？

Thank you.

謝謝。

So I will take the first one.

因此我選擇第一個。

I will leave Andrea on the second one.

我會讓安德里亞參與第二個。

When it comes to the sales and marketing in general, a lot of -- I will make some examples -- a lot of improvement comes from digitalization.

就一般的銷售和行銷而言，很多——我舉幾個例子——很多改進都來自數位化。

Digitalization is something that is proceeding across the board and across a number of activities.

數位化正在全面推進，涉及多項活動。

I will give you some example.

我給你舉幾個例子。

This is basically -- primarily the main driver of the increased efficiency.

這基本上是提高效率的主要驅動力。

When I talk about digitalization, I'm talking about digital recharges, digital sales, the -- one of the latest example has been quite important, was the PIX adoption within our postpaid customer base.

當我談到數位化時，我指的是數位充值、數位銷售，其中一個非常重要的最新例子是我們後付費客戶群中 PIX 的採用。

PIX is a unitary cost that is lower than any other cost.

PIX 是一種比其他成本低的單一成本。

And so we move from zero to 50% over the last 12 months -- a bit more than 12 months, over the last 18 months.

因此，在過去的 12 個月裡，我們從零上升到了 50%——比 12 個月多一點，在過去的 18 個月裡。

And if you look at the call center, if you look at the ability for us to retain calls on digital channels are there.

如果你看一下呼叫中心，你會發現我們在數位管道上保留呼叫的能力就在那裡。

So this basically is the main driver behind the optimization of the sales and marketing cost.

所以這基本上是銷售和行銷成本優化背後的主要驅動力。

Looking forward, we still have opportunities, and this is the opportunity that we are going to pursue going forward.

展望未來，我們仍然有機會，這就是我們未來要追求的機會。

An example, consider the customer relation.

舉個例子，考慮客戶關係。

We are just issuing a new app.

我們剛剛發布了一款新的應用程式。

So the new app is being launched at the end of last year.

所以新的應用程式將於去年年底推出。

It's in soft launch.

目前該軟體處於測試啟動階段。

So it doesn't address now 100% of our customer base.

因此它現在還不能滿足我們 100% 的客戶需求。

And the functionalities that we are going to put in the new app are going to be effective in improving the relationship with our customers, like for complaints.

我們將在新應用程式中添加的功能將有效改善我們與客戶的關係，例如處理投訴。

And therefore, by launching this, we are going to reduce further our customer service cost on the human side.

因此，透過推出這項服務，我們將進一步降低人力方面的客戶服務成本。

So we got all these packages of initiatives within sales and outside sales.

因此，我們在銷售內部和外部銷售方面都制定了一系列措施。

But with sales, it was the main driver of the reduction.

但就銷售額而言，這是減幅的主要動力。

Hi, Carlos.

你好，卡洛斯。

As Alberto mentioned at the beginning of the call, we cannot give much detail on the effects of this statement.

正如 Alberto 在通話開始時提到的那樣，我們無法詳細說明該聲明的影響。

The BRL520 million is pretax and all the balance sheet effects will come in the few quarters.

5.2 億巴西雷亞爾是稅前金額，所有資產負債表效應將在未來幾季顯現。

Okay, thank you so much.

好的，非常感謝。

Super clear.

非常清晰。

(Operator Instructions) Daniel Federle, Bradesco BBI.

（操作員指示）Daniel Federle，Bradesco BBI。

Hi, good morning, everyone.

大家早安。

Thank you very much for taking my questions.

非常感謝您回答我的問題。

I had two questions, if I may.

如果可以的話，我有兩個問題。

The first one, I would like to know if you are feeling any impact from (inaudible) over the past 30 days since they started to onboard clients?

第一個問題，我想知道自從他們開始接納客戶以來，在過去 30 天裡，您是否感受到了（聽不清楚）的影響？

Second question, if you see any structural reason for TIM to grow less than peers or more than peers in mobile revenues going forward?

第二個問題，您是否認為有任何結構性原因，導致 TIM 未來行動收入增幅低於或高於同業？

And third, just to understand the impacts of inflation in revenue growth in the future, should we expect the higher the inflation, the higher the price increases, and then the higher the revenue growth?

第三，為了了解通膨對未來營收成長的影響，我們是否應該預期通膨越高，價格漲幅就越高，然後收入成長就越高？

Or that's a very simplistic, and that's not the way you should think?

或者說這太簡單了，而且這不是你該思考的方式？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, Daniel.

好的，丹尼爾。

So coming to the first one, in terms of the impact of Nubank, we don't see it.

所以談到第一個問題，就 Nubank 的影響而言，我們沒有看到。

If -- and so that's a simple answer so far.

如果——那麼到目前為止這是一個簡單的答案。

When it comes to our growth in mobile, as you know, we have more prepaid versus our competitors.

談到我們行動領域的成長，如您所知，我們比競爭對手擁有更多的預付費業務。

And so when I say that the recharge market is shrinking, basically, this is something that -- since we have more prepaid revenues versus the others in the overall revenue composition, clearly, this weights more for us versus the others.

所以當我說充值市場正在萎縮時，基本上，這是因為——由於在整體收入組成中，我們的預付費收入比其他公司多，顯然，這對我們比其他公司更重要。

And that's the reason why we are deploying a number of initiatives, the B2B one that we discussed, the customer platform that we've been discussing in this call, to be able to maintain a sustainable revenue growth pattern going forward.

這就是我們部署一系列舉措的原因，包括我們在這次電話會議上討論的 B2B 舉措、客戶平台，以便能夠在未來保持可持續的收入成長模式。

When it comes to passing inflation to our customers, you know that we do this at specific times of the year.

當涉及將通貨膨脹轉嫁給客戶時，您知道我們會在一年中的特定時間這樣做。

So we believe that we can impart inflation to our postpaid customer base.

因此我們相信，我們可以將通貨膨脹轉嫁給我們的後付費客戶群。

As a matter of fact, we are -- over the last years, roughly, the extent of inflation we've been passing over.

事實上，在過去幾年裡，我們已經大致度過了通貨膨脹的程度。

Of course, there is then a limit that it depends on how much demand is impacted by these increases.

當然，這也有一個限度，取決於這些成長對需求的影響有多大。

And this, in turn, has to do also with the overall economic context and so the -- what is available for customers to spend.

而這又與整體經濟環境有關，也與客戶可消費的金額有關。

We are executing for you to know the price adjustment in a similar fashion this year versus last year.

我們正在執行今年與去年類似的價格調整，以便您了解。

And what we do is that we look afterwards at response of customers in terms of churn levels and collection curve, so our ability to collect.

我們所做的是，事後我們會從客戶流失率和收款曲線的角度來觀察客戶的反應，從而了解我們的收款能力。

And this is a sort of empirical approach.

這是一種實證方法。

As we go forward, we pass this, and we check if (technical difficulty) to compensate for this adjustment.

隨著我們不斷前進，我們會通過這一點，並檢查是否可以（技術難度）來補償這種調整。

As for the year, we are going with the same intensity as of last year.

至於今年，我們將以與去年相同的力道繼續前進。

Daniel

丹尼爾

(multiple speakers) --?

（多位發言者）－？

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Sorry.

對不起。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, since there are no further questions, I'm returning the floor to Mr. Alberto Griselli for his final remarks.

女士們、先生們，由於沒有其他問題，我將發言權交還給阿爾貝托·格里塞利先生，請他作最後的發言。

Please, Mr. Alberto, you may proceed.

阿爾貝托先生，請您繼續。

Thank you, all.

謝謝大家。

So I want to thank you, everybody, for participating in our call today.

所以我要感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。

A special thank you to our team.

特別感謝我們的團隊。

We are fully focused on executing 2025, address the challenges that the macro scenario present, and also pursue the upside risk that we have in our plan.

我們全心全意專注於執行2025年的目標，應對宏觀情勢帶來的挑戰，並追求計畫中的上行風險。

I would like also to invite you at Telecom Italia, TIM Italia call at the 13th, so in a couple of days, when we will have the chance to complement how we plan to create additional value to shareholders, addressing a topic that we get question frequently.

我還想邀請您參加 13 號的意大利電信 (TIM Italia) 電話會議，幾天后，我們將有機會補充我們計劃如何為股東創造額外價值，並討論我們經常被問到的一個話題。

So thank you for your participation today.

非常感謝你們今天的參與。

And hopefully, we'll see you again in a couple of days on TIM Italia conference call.

希望我們能在幾天後的 TIM Italia 電話會議上再次見到您。

Thank you, everybody.

謝謝大家。

This does conclude the fourth quarter of 2024 conference call of TIM S.A. For further information and details of the company, please access our website at tim.com.br/ir. You can disconnect from now on.

TIM S.A. 2024 年第四季度電話會議就此結束。從現在起您可以斷開連線。

Thank you once again, and have a wonderful day.

再次感謝您，祝您有美好的一天。