Tim SA (TIMB) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to TIM SA 2025 third-quarter results video conference call. We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，早安，歡迎參加 TIM SA 2025 年第三季業績視訊電話會議。我們謹此通知您，本次活動正在錄影。（操作說明）

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our earnings conference for the third quarter of 2025. I'm Vicente Ferreira, Investor Relations Officer of TIM Brasil. This video highlights our recent financial and operational performance as well as the initiatives that support our strategic plan. Following the highlights, we will have a live Q&A with our CEO, Alberto Griselli; and CFO, Andrea Viegas.

大家好，歡迎參加我們2025年第三季財報發表會。我是 Vicente Ferreira，TIM Brasil 投資者關係官。這段影片重點介紹了我們近期的財務和營運業績，以及支持我們策略計畫的各項舉措。在精彩環節之後，我們將與執行長 Alberto Griselli 和財務長 Andrea Viegas 進行現場問答。

Please note that management may make forward-looking statements, and this presentation may contain them. Refer to the disclaimer on the screen on our Investor Relations website. Now let's review our results.

請注意，管理階層可能會發表前瞻性聲明，本簡報可能包含此類聲明。請參閱我們投資者關係網站畫面上的免責聲明。現在讓我們來回顧一下結果。

Hello, everyone. I'm Alberto Griselli, CEO of TIM Brasil. Today, we'll explore how our commitment to innovation, customer experience, and operational excellence is driving sustainable growth and value creation. Let's dive into the highlights and key achievements that are shaping our journey this year.

大家好。我是 TIM Brasil 執行長 Alberto Griselli。今天，我們將探討我們對創新、客戶體驗和卓越營運的承諾如何推動永續成長和價值創造。讓我們深入了解塑造我們今年發展歷程的亮點和主要成就。

We've achieved a 5.2% year-over-year increase in service revenues for the first nine months of 2025, a sustainable growth pace that combined with our robust cash conversion machine is fueling solid value creation. We keep evolving our B2B to expand new revenue streams. The TIM Smart Mining solution is gaining traction with a new partnership with Vale, the mining company. Additionally, EBITDA rose 6.7% year over year with a 50.3% margin and net income up 42.2% year over year.

2025 年前九個月，我們的服務收入年增 5.2%，這可持續的成長速度，加上我們強大的現金轉換機制，正在推動穩健的價值創造。我們不斷發展B2B業務，以拓展新的收入來源。TIM 智慧採礦解決方案與礦業公司淡水河谷建立了新的合作夥伴關係，並因此獲得了更多關注。此外，EBITDA年增6.7%，利潤率為50.3%，淨利潤年增42.2%。

Our disciplined approach to CapEx has kept investment efficiency and operational cash flow reached BRL4.5 billion. Notably, we announced BRL1.8 billion in interest on capital and repurchased BRL369 million in shares, reinforcing our commitment to shareholder remuneration.

我們嚴謹的資本支出管理方式，使投資效率得以維持，營運現金流達到 45 億雷亞爾。值得一提的是，我們宣布支付 18 億雷亞爾的資本利息，並回購了價值 3.69 億雷亞爾的股票，從而加強了我們對股東回報的承諾。

Once more, we stood out in ESG practices. TIM reached the top 10 of the FTSE Russell Diversity and Inclusion Index, being the only Brazilian company and the only telco to appear on the list. As I pointed out, our net service revenues continues to grow at a solid pace, driven by the mobile segment.

我們在ESG實踐方面再次脫穎而出。TIM躋身富時羅素多元化與包容性指數前十名，是唯一一家上榜的巴西公司，也是唯一一家電信公司。正如我之前指出的，在行動業務的推動下，我們的淨服務收入持續保持穩健成長。

Postpaid expansion remains a key contributor, supporting overall growth. The more-for-more strategy is helping ARPU evolution and mobile service revenues increased 5.6% annually over nine months and 5.2% in the third quarter. This quarter, we added 415,000 postpaid lines, with prepaid to postpaid migrations up by double digits. Postpaid monthly churn remains low at 0.8%, reflecting efficient customer base management.

後付費業務的擴張仍然是推動整體成長的關鍵因素。「以更多價格提供更多服務」的策略正在幫助提高每位用戶平均收入 (ARPU)，行動服務收入在過去九個月中年增 5.6%，第三季年增 5.2%。本季度，我們新增了 415,000 條後付費線路，預付費用戶向後付費用戶的遷移量實現了兩位數的成長。後付費用戶每月流失率維持在 0.8% 的低位，反映出高效率的客戶群管理。

Our more-for-more approach optimizes the cost benefit equation by balancing offer attractiveness and revenue growth. Exclusive Black Friday offers, including iPhone 16E and PlayStation 5, are enhancing our value proposition, and we expect them to help maintaining a solid trend in postpaid.

我們採取「多付出，多回報」的策略，透過平衡產品吸引力和收入成長來優化成本效益比。黑色星期五獨家優惠，包括 iPhone 16E 和 PlayStation 5，提升了我們的價值主張，我們預計這些優惠將有助於保持後付費業務的穩健成長動能。

In prepaid, we are seeing first sign of stabilization, supported by targeted offers and improved customer experience. TIM Ultrafibra is also showing operational improvements with broadband ARPU at BRL94 in the third quarter. Stable ARPU and the client base resuming growth at 3.7% year over year, marking eight consecutive months of positive net adds should reduce the negative dilution for broadband to our numbers. TIM is reinforcing its leadership in network with 5G now available in 1,000 cities across Brazil. We have the broadest 4G and 5G coverage in the country.

在預付費領域，我們看到了穩定的第一個跡象，這得益於有針對性的優惠活動和不斷改善的客戶體驗。TIM Ultrafibra 的營運也得到了改善，第三季寬頻 ARPU 為 94 巴西雷亞爾。ARPU 保持穩定，客戶群恢復成長，年成長 3.7%，連續八個月實現淨成長，這應該會減少寬頻對我們資料的負面影響。TIM 正在鞏固其在網路領域的領先地位，目前 5G 網路已覆蓋巴西 1000 個城市。我們擁有全國最廣泛的4G和5G網路覆蓋範圍。

Sao Paulo's network modernization case is setting the base for next-generation connectivity. The project reached its completion with 100% of sites upgraded this November. We are now leaders in download speed in all rankings that measure throughput. We expanded our leadership in consistent quality indicator, leaving the second player even further down the scale.

聖保羅的網路現代化案例正在為下一代連結奠定基礎。該項目已於今年11月完成，所有站點均已升級。在所有衡量吞吐量的排名中，我們的下載速度都處於領先地位。我們在品質指標一致性方面擴大了領先優勢，使第二名​​選手的排名進一步下滑。

On top of that, we are seeing the first sign of operational improvement, with churn linked to network reasons reducing by one quarter. All in all, our modernization efforts are successfully supporting customer base management and delivering superior network quality, and we are expanding this project to other cities.

除此之外，我們也看到了營運改善的第一個跡象，與網路原因相關的客戶流失率減少了四分之一。總而言之，我們的現代化努力成功地支援了客戶群管理，並提供了卓越的網路質量，我們正在將這個專案擴展到其他城市。

Completing our 3Bs approach, let's talk about service. Providing excellent service is at the heart of our strategy. The revamped MyTIM app is transforming the customer experience and selling journey. With over 17.7 million unique users and 33% penetration, the app is driving digital engagement and e-commerce growth.

完成我們的 3B 方法後，讓我們來談談服務。提供優質服務是我們策略的核心。改版後的 MyTIM 應用程式正在改變客戶體驗和銷售流程。該應用程式擁有超過 1770 萬獨立用戶和 33% 的滲透率，正在推動數位參與和電子商務成長。

We are the first telco to integrate with Apple Pay and Google Pay, enabling secure direct recharges for prepaid customer, simplifying the journey and encouraging recurring transactions. Digital service Net Promoter Score for postpaid and prepaid are on the rise, signaling that we are on the right path to elevating the experience with our service.

我們是首家整合 Apple Pay 和 Google Pay 的電信公司，為預付費客戶提供安全直接儲值服務，簡化儲值流程，鼓勵客戶進行定期交易。後付費和預付費用戶的數位服務淨推薦值正在上升，這表明我們在提升服務體驗方面走在正確的道路上。

Our more than 60 million customers are TIM's most valuable asset. Having this thing in mind, we are always trying to improve our relationship with clients and better monetize this asset. TIM Mais is our enhanced loyalty program, offering more benefits, experiences and convenience. Since its launch at the beginning of the year, we have seen over two million monthly active users enjoy the program's benefits. We have distributed 120,000 movie tickets and 20,000 Uber Rides gift cards.

我們超過 6,000 萬的客戶是 TIM 最寶貴的資產。牢記這一點，我們始終致力於改善與客戶的關係，並更好地實現這項資產的獲利。TIM Mais 是我們升級後的會員計劃，提供更多福利、體驗和便利。自年初推出以來，我們已經看到超過兩百萬月活躍用戶享受了該計劃帶來的好處。我們已發放了 12 萬張電影票和 2 萬張 Uber 乘車禮品卡。

The program NPS is over 80 points and reflects strong customer satisfaction. In parallel, we are accelerating base monetization with mobile ads. We reached over 1,000 campaigns and 270 advertisers by September. Through the combination of our own inventory with Google and Meta, we are boosting digital engagement and expanding revenue streams beyond connectivity. Mobile ads revenues closed the quarter growing in double digits versus last year.

該專案的 NPS 得分超過 80 分，反映出客戶高度滿意。同時，我們正在加速透過行動廣告實現基礎業務的變現。截至9月份，我們已覆蓋超過1000個廣告活動和270家廣告商。透過將我們自己的庫存與 Google 和 Meta 結合，我們正在提升數位參與度，並將收入來源擴展到連結之外。行動廣告收入本季實現兩位數成長，較去年同期有所下降。

B2B is a key aspect of our strategic plan and another way to diversify our revenue base. Since we have little legacy, the evolution of connectivity through coverage as a service is the main driver for expanding our presence. B2B IT solutions now cover with 4G and NB-IoT, 23.5 million hectares, over 7,600 kilometers of highways, and we have sold almost 400,000 smart lighting spots, generating BRL435 million in contracted revenues since first quarter '24.

B2B 是我們策略計畫的關鍵組成部分，也是我們實現收入來源多元化的另一種途徑。由於我們幾乎沒有歷史遺留問題，透過網路覆蓋即服務實現連接性的發展是我們擴大業務範圍的主要驅動力。B2B IT 解決方案現已通過 4G 和 NB-IoT 覆蓋 2350 萬公頃土地、超過 7600 公里高速公路，並且自 2024 年第一季以來，我們已售出近 40 萬個智慧照明點，創造了 4.35 億雷亞爾的合約收入。

The mining vertical is gaining traction, and now we have another anchor customer. Vale is joining our portfolio of clients and will be able to enjoy the benefits of TIM Smart Mining solution. We offer 5G, 4G, IoT and artificial intelligence solutions to create safer, more efficient, and more sustainable environment for our customers. TIM Smart Mining can be a key enabler of automation and reduce environmental impact in the mining industry.

採礦垂直領域正在獲得發展動力，現在我們又多了一位核心客戶。淡水河谷將加入我們的客戶組合，並能夠享受 TIM 智慧採礦解決方案的好處。我們提供 5G、4G、物聯網和人工智慧解決方案，為客戶創造更安全、更有效率、更永續的環境。TIM智慧採礦技術可以成為採礦業自動化和減少環境影響的關鍵推動因素。

With that, I'll hand it over to Andrea Viegas, our CFO, who will walk you through the financials.

接下來，我將把麥克風交給我們的財務長安德烈亞‧維加斯，她將為大家講解財務狀況。

Hello, everyone. I'm Andrea Viegas, CFO of TIM. This quarter, we delivered another chapter of consistent and disciplined execution. We've stayed focused on what matters most: sustainable growth, productivity gains, and creating value for our shareholders. Our efficiency program remains one of the basis of our strategy. Thanks to effort across all areas, we kept cost growth at just 1.8%, well below inflation.

大家好。我是 TIM 的財務長 Andrea Viegas。本季，我們再次展現了持續、嚴謹的執行力。我們始終專注於最重要的事情：永續成長、提高生產力以及為股東創造價值。我們的效率提升計劃仍然是我們策略的基礎之一。由於各部門的共同努力，我們將成本成長控制在1.8%，遠低於通貨膨脹率。

This discipline translated into a 7.2% increase in EBITDA with margin reaching 51.7%. EBITDA after lease also advanced 8.3% year over year with robust margin expansion, a direct result of our industrial cost optimization strategy, which we've been executing across three fronts: our make model, contract renegotiations, and network sharing agreements. Also, CADE approved the expansion of our own sharing agreement with Vivo two weeks ago. These initiatives are helping us to keep lease costs stable and margin expanding even in a challenging environment.

這種自律措施使 EBITDA 成長了 7.2%，利潤率達到 51.7%。扣除租賃費用後，EBITDA 也同比增長 8.3%，利潤率大幅擴張，這直接得益於我們工業成本優化戰略，該戰略我們在三個方面實施：我們的製造模式、合同重新談判和網絡共享協議。此外，CADE兩週前批准了我們與vivo擴大共享協議的計劃。即使在充滿挑戰的環境下，這些措施也幫助我們保持租賃成本穩定並擴大利潤率。

Our net income rose by a solid double digit in the quarter, reaching BRL1.2 billion and bringing the year-to-date figure to almost BRL3 billion. This performance enabled us to distribute BRL1.8 billion in interest on capital and repurchased BRL369 million in shares, reaffirming our commitment to create value for our shareholders.

本季我們的淨收入實現了兩位數的穩健成長，達到 12 億雷亞爾，使今年迄今的淨收入接近 30 億雷亞爾。這一業績使我們能夠分配 18 億雷亞爾的資本利息，並回購 3.69 億雷亞爾的股票，重申了我們為股東創造價值的承諾。

Building on this momentum, our operational cash flow measured as EBITDA after lease minus CapEx reached BRL1.7 billion in the quarter, up 8.1% year over year, supported by a resilient financial structure. In nine months, this metric is up by double digits, reaching BRL4.5 billion.

憑藉這一勢頭，本季我們的營運現金流（以扣除租賃費用後的 EBITDA 減去資本支出計算）達到 17 億雷亞爾，年增 8.1%，這得益於穩健的財務結構。九個月內，這項指標實現了兩位數的成長，達到 45 億雷亞爾。

With a strong balance sheet, we are well positioned to sustain growth and deliver long-term value. Now back to Alberto.

憑藉穩健的資產負債表，我們有能力維持成長並創造長期價值。現在回到阿爾貝托。

Thank you, Andrea. As we close, I want to reinforce that TIM Brasil is on track to achieve its 2025 goals and set the stage for 2026 of continuous evolution. We are delivering on our full-year guidance across service revenue, EBITDA, CapEx, and shareholder remuneration.

謝謝你，安德里亞。最後，我想強調，TIM Brasil 正朝著實現其 2025 年目標穩步前進，並為 2026 年的持續發展奠定了基礎。我們在服務收入、EBITDA、資本支出和股東回報方面均實現了全年預期目標。

With results on the right track, we are confident we can finish the year successfully and continue delivering value through the following drivers: one, our mobile postpaid and B2B segments to keep performing strongly; two, prepaid and broadband to continue recovering; three, efficiency are keeping costs and leases under control; and lastly, the buyback program is accelerating, and we are maintaining strong momentum in shareholder returns.

鑑於業績正朝著正確的方向發展，我們有信心能夠成功完成今年的工作，並透過以下幾個方面繼續創造價值：第一，我們的移動後付費和 B2B 業務將繼續保持強勁表現；第二，預付費和寬頻業務將繼續復甦；第三，效率的提升使成本和租賃費用得到有效控制；最後，股票回購計劃正在推進，我們保持著積極股東回報的強勁勢頭。

Thank you for your attention. Now let's move to the live Q&A session.

感謝您的關注。現在進入現場問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Bernardo Guttmann, XP.

（操作員說明）Bernardo Guttmann，XP。

Congrats on the solid results again. My question is about mobile service revenues. We saw a slight deceleration this quarter. How much of that comes from competition versus the natural normalization of growth after the strong cycle we had over the last years?

再次恭喜你們取得優異成績。我的問題是關於行動服務收入的。本季增速略為放緩。其中有多少成長源自於競爭，又有多少成長是過去幾年強勁成長週期後自然趨於正常的體現？

And if I may, I have a second one. There has been a lot of market talk around potential moves and M&As in the fiber space. How do you see this environment? Could this wave of consolidation change your strategy or timing around your fiber business? Thank you.

如果可以的話，我還有第二個。光纖領域的潛在舉措和併購活動在市場上引發了廣泛的討論。您如何看待這種環境？這波整合浪潮會改變您光纖業務的策略或時機嗎？謝謝。

Hi, Bernardo, thank you for the question. So let's start with the first one. So when you look at the mobile service revenues, I think that we anticipated in the previous quarter this sort of dynamics, and it's pretty consistent with what you see in other years as well. So we have a curve whereby we are at a higher growth at the beginning of the year when we do our price adjustment, and then it tends to decelerate going forward.

你好，貝爾納多，謝謝你的提問。那麼，我們就從第一個開始吧。所以，從行動服務收入來看，我認為我們在上一季就預料到了這種動態，而且這與往年的情況也相當一致。因此，我們看到一條曲線，即年初進行價格調整時成長較快，然後成長速度往往會放緩。

I think that in this quarter, looking at the revenue dynamics on our side, we have pretty favorable outcome in terms of maintaining our postpaid engine growth double digit, whereby reducing the deceleration of prepaid. And this is a trend that we are going to expect in the coming quarters, whereby we are likely to balance a bit the growth with postpaid maintaining the growth momentum and prepaid, we are working to decelerate less year over year.

我認為，就本季我們的營收動態而言，我們在維持後付費引擎兩位數成長方面取得了相當有利的結果，從而減緩了預付費的成長放緩。我們預計未來幾季將出現這種趨勢，即後付費業務將保持成長勢頭，而預付費業務的成長速度將逐年放緩，從而實現成長的平衡。

So I would say that it's less dependent on the competitive dynamics that remain rational and more related to our own strategy and seasonal patterns. This is for the revenues, okay?

所以我認為，它較少取決於保持理性的競爭動態，而更多地與我們自己的策略和季節性模式有關。這是為了增加收入，懂嗎？

And when we look at the M&A, I think that the -- we always say that Brazilian market being hyper fragmented is a market that is not attractive at this point in time because of the pressure that we have on ARPU and churn. And therefore, we are looking to optimize our capital allocation in terms of how we allocate capital to broadband. So we got our specific strategy that is dependent on our specific situation whereby broadband for us is a limited revenue line.

當我們審視併購時，我認為——我們總是說，巴西市場高度分散，目前由於 ARPU 和客戶流失率的壓力，這個市場並不具有吸引力。因此，我們正在尋求優化我們的資本配置，特別是如何將資本分配給寬頻領域。因此，我們制定了針對我們具體情況的具體策略，因為寬頻對我們來說是一條有限的收入來源。

So the broadband is something that the market has been expected for many years. Given the number of players, it is going to be a process that will take some time. And we have our own strategy, organic and inorganic towards this space, and it is unchanged versus what we discussed in the previous calls.

所以，寬頻是市場多年來一直期待的東西。考慮到參賽人數眾多，這將是一個需要一些時間的過程。我們針對這一領域制定了自己的策略，包括有機成長和無機成長，這與我們先前電話會議中討論的內容並無二致。

What has changed a bit is the results that we are having on broadband because as you see now, we have a quite better operating momentum in terms of net additions. ARPU is still under pressure. We posted still a negative revenue growth this quarter on broadband. But given the fact that on the net additions, we are on a positive territory or we have been on a positive territory for eight months now, we are likely to see improvements on the top line as well as we move forward. That's okay, Bernardo?

寬頻業務的成果有所變化，因為正如你現在看到的，我們在淨新增用戶方面有了更好的發展勢頭。ARPU值仍面臨壓力。本季寬頻業務收入依然出現負成長。但鑑於淨新增人數已經連續八個月保持正成長，我們預計隨著業務的推進，營收也會有所改善。沒關係，貝爾納多？

Yes, it's very clear, Alberto. Thank you.

是的，非常清楚，阿爾貝托。謝謝。

Marcelo Santos, JPMorgan.

馬塞洛桑托斯，摩根大通。

The first is, if you could just paint a bit what's the competitive environment on mobile? And the second, do you see room to increase pure postpaid prices maybe this year or maybe the next? This year maybe already over, so maybe in the next? Thank you.

首先，請您簡單描述一下行動端的競爭環境？第二，您認為今年或明年是否有提高純後付費價格的空間？今年可能已經結束了，那明年呢？謝謝。

Okay. Yes, Marcelo. So when you look at the competitive environment, I would say that the competitive environment on mobile remains positive in our view. So of course, there are promotions here and there. But overall, I think that the price adjustment this year went through quite nicely. And we are coding in our systems as we speak, the price adjustment that we're planning to execute the back book prices for next year.

好的。是的，馬塞洛。因此，從競爭環境來看，我們認為行動領域的競爭環境仍保持積極態勢。所以，促銷活動當然少不了。但總的來說，我認為今年的價格調整進行得相當順利。我們正在系統中編寫程式碼，以便對明年的預訂價格進行調整。

The -- as for -- so the market dynamics remain favorable. Of course, you have the smaller players that are a bit more aggressive. But all in all, they're not disrupting the national market dynamics in terms of pricing.

至於市場動態，目前仍維持有利態勢。當然，也有一些規模較小的玩家，他們的打法更具侵略性。但總的來說，它們並沒有在價格方面擾亂國家市場動態。

And when you look at pure postpaid, I think we have an opportunity to adjust it. Now we are on a promotional campaign because we just launched the Black Friday promotions. So it's -- from now to the end of the year, it's unlikely that we are considering an adjustment, but it's something that we are certainly assessing for the beginning of next year.

而當我們審視純粹的後付費市場時，我認為我們有機會對其進行調整。現在我們正在進行促銷活動，因為我們剛剛推出了黑色星期五促銷活動。所以，從現在到年底，我們不太可能考慮調整，但我們肯定會在明年年初對此進行評估。

Leonardo Olmos, UBS.

萊昂納多·奧爾莫斯，瑞銀集團。

Can you give us more color on the lease efficiency plan, especially in terms of timing of the expected impacts coming from the partnership with IHS and rent sharing agreement and leasing contract renegotiations? Thank you.

您能否詳細介紹租賃效率提升計劃，特別是與 IHS 合作、租金分成協議和租賃合約重新談判預計產生的影響的時間安排？謝謝。

Leonardo, related to the -- our lease efficiency, as we mentioned, we are in continual discussions with all the partners that we have. Specific about the agreement that we made with IHS was we wanted the [operation] to make sites. And we made this agreement with someone who have the acknowledgment and the people to construct sites for us. So this kind of site is for some specific customers like agrobusiness or mining. And we will fund a financial and they will build for us these sites.

關於 Leonardo，與我們的租賃效率有關，正如我們所提到的，我們一直在與所有合作夥伴進行討論。我們與 IHS 達成的協議中具體提到，我們希望 [營運者] 建立站點。我們與一家擁有資格和人手為我們建造場地的公司達成了這項協議。所以這類網站是針對特定客戶群的，例如農業企業或採礦業。我們將提供資金，他們將為我們建造這些場地。

What we expect in the leases is -- or our goal for this year, as we mentioned before, is to have the leases growing related to the inflation, although we have an increase in the number of sites for our increasing coverage of 5G. But our goal is to increase just the inflation tax this year. I don't know if I answer your question.

正如我們之前提到的，我們今年的租賃目標是——或者說我們今年的目標——是讓租賃金額隨著通貨膨脹而增長，儘管我們為了擴大 5G 覆蓋範圍而增加了站點數量。但我們今年的目標是只提高通貨膨脹稅。我不知道我的回答是否能解答你的問題。

Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Your mentioned about IHS and the overall goal. I was just wondering if -- I don't know, maybe you could talk a little bit about the RAN sharing and maybe if it's not so delicate about the renegotiations.

是的。是啊，謝謝。您提到了IHS以及總體目標。我只是想問——我不知道，也許您可以談談無線接入網共享，以及重新協商是否那麼敏感。

Yes. Sorry, you mentioned about RAN sharing. RAN share cards just allowed us to continue. We changed a little bit the series that we have before with Vivo. So we will continue our plan to make the RAN shares especially for the 3G and 4G. And we are continuing to discuss -- we are continuing to renegotiate our partners on the towers company to achieve our plan that is to not reduce the lease because we can, but growing the lease only related to inflation.

是的。抱歉，您剛才提到了無線存取網共享。RAN共享卡讓我們得以繼續運作。我們對先前與 Vivo 合作的系列產品進行了一些改動。因此，我們將繼續推進我們的計劃，專門為 3G 和 4G 製造 RAN 份額。我們正在繼續討論——我們正在繼續與鐵塔公司的合作夥伴重新談判，以實現我們的計劃，即不因為可以就減少租金，而是只根據通貨膨脹來增加租金。

We have another agreement, but we are not -- now we can't disclose it. But as soon as we achieve our new agreements, we will disclose for you.

我們還有另一項協議，但我們現在不能透露。但一旦我們達成新的協議，我們會立即向您公佈。

Okay. Okay. Sounds great. And you have been delivering quite excellent development on that front. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Have a good day.

好的。好的。聽起來不錯。你們在這方面取得了非常出色的進展。恭喜。非常感謝。祝你有美好的一天。

Vitor Tomita, Goldman Sachs.

Vitor Tomita，高盛集團。

Two main questions from my side. One is a quick follow-up on the fiber business. Just if you have an update on the organic side on what has been supporting those improving net additions, if it's the same initiatives that you had in place before, such as focusing more on higher-end customers, higher value customers (inaudible) churn or if there is anything new that's interesting on the strategy there?

我主要有兩個問題。一是針對光纖業務的快速後續報告。請問您在自然成長方面有什麼最新進展嗎？例如哪些因素在支持淨成長？是否還是之前採取的那些舉措，例如更加關注高端客戶、高價值客戶（聽不清楚）流失率？或者這方面的策略有什麼新的亮點嗎？

The other question is a bit of a follow-up on what people are asking about the competitive environment. Very specifically, there has been some noise in markets in October due to new banks, new sell MVNO, increasing commercial outreach in some areas, promotions to some extent. Was that noticeable at all from the standpoint of our commercial teams or very -- or something in my mind or just noise? Thank you.

另一個問題算是對人們提出的有關競爭環境的問題的後續提問。具體來說，10 月市場出現了一些波動，原因是新銀行、新銷售的 MVNO、某些地區商業推廣力度加大以及一定程度的促銷活動。從我們商業團隊的角度來看，這有明顯的影響嗎？還是只是我的錯覺，還是只是噪音？謝謝。

Sorry, Vitor, I had my mic switched off. So going to the fiber business. So what happens -- what happened on the fiber business are primarily a number of things, primarily related to the quality of the acquisitions and the management of the customer life cycle.

抱歉，維托，我的麥克風關掉了。所以，我要進軍光纖產業了。所以，光纖業務方面發生的事情主要很多，主要與收購的品質和客戶生命週期的管理有關。

So when you go into the quality of the acquisitions, it's primarily related to optimization on our credit scoring of the customer base and local targeting and the commercial channel footprint. So there are some channels that are naturally -- that provides naturally more quality, whereby other channels provide less quality. And so we changed over time the mix of our acquisition, and we targeted better high-value segments within the footprint. So this is for the entrance of customers.

因此，當我們深入分析收購品質時，主要取決於我們對客戶群的信用評分、在地化定位以及商業管道覆蓋範圍的最佳化。所以有些頻道自然而然地提供更高的質量，而其他頻道提供的質量則較低。因此，隨著時間的推移，我們改變了收購組合，並將目標鎖定在現有業務範圍內的高價值細分市場。這是供顧客入口使用的。

On the other side, there has been a lot of improvements on the churn management side. And this is partly related to the first question because if you get more quality at the beginning, you lose less customers because of bad debt and delinquency rates. And at the same time, we improved the quality of the service as a whole.

另一方面，客戶流失管理方面也取得了許多改進。這與第一個問題有部分關係，因為如果一開始就保證質量，那麼由於壞帳和拖欠率而流失的客戶就會更少。同時，我們也提高了整體服務品質。

So these are the two main areas when we had some relevant progress that moved us into net growth. When you go to the competitive environment, you're right that over the last quarter since the launch, [NuCel] has been increasing progressively the allowances to their customers. So they started with three plants with a specific allowance. And then over time, this is, I think, the third time where they're increasing their allowance, so more gigabyte per price. And to some extent, I think they reduced the price in some plants on some BTL offer to our knowledge.

所以，在以上兩個主要領域，我們取得了一些相關的進展，從而實現了淨成長。從競爭環境來看，你說得對，自產品上市以來的最後一個季度，[NuCel]一直在逐步增加對客戶的補貼。所以他們最初只買了三株植物，並設定了特定的預算。然後隨著時間的推移，我認為這已經是他們第三次提高流量限額了，也就是說，每個價格可以購買更多 GB 的流量。據我們所知，他們在一定程度上降低了部分植物在BTL促銷活動中的價格。

I would say that the -- playing the gigabyte per revenue side is something that we can respond quickly because it's our network. It's -- we are deploying 5G. We've got [4] of spare capacity. We didn't do so yet because so far, the -- what we see, it doesn't request an answer on our side. And so we keep monitoring the progress in terms of losing customers or potentially losing customers to them. So far, no need to respond.

我認為，在每千兆位元組收入方面，我們可以迅速做出反應，因為這是我們自己的網路。我們正在部署 5G。我們還有[4]個剩餘產能。我們還沒有這樣做，因為到目前為止，我們看到的情況是，它並沒有要求我們這邊做出回應。因此，我們會持續關注客戶流失或潛在客戶流失到他們那裡的情況。目前無需回應。

Maria Clara Infantozzi, Itaú BBA.

瑪麗亞·克拉拉·因凡托齊 (Maria Clara Infantozzi)，義大利 BBA。

I would like to (inaudible), please, how do you see the growth opportunities coming from B2B and IoT? You have been vocal about the monetization coming from the market. So just wanted to ask you about how do you see the size of the opportunity, your long-term goals, and how you see the evolution of revenues in the short term? Thank you.

我想問（聽不清楚），您如何看待 B2B 和物聯網帶來的成長機會？你曾多次公開談論市場帶來的獲利問題。所以我想問您，您如何看待這個機會的規模、您的長期目標，以及您如何看待短期內收入的發展？謝謝。

I'm not sure that, Maria, I understood correctly your question. I will try to rephrase it. And basically, if I understood correctly, is how we are going to maintain the growth in the BIoT segment? What is the question?

瑪麗亞，我不確定我是否正確理解了你的問題。我試著換一種說法。如果我理解正確的話，這基本上就是我們如何保持 BIoT 領域的成長？問題是什麼？

Yeah. Actually, I asked you to please explore more how you see the long-term growth coming from B2B as you have been vocal about the monetization opportunities. And if you could please comment how short-term and long-term goals are perceived by you, and where are the opportunities would be great. Thank you.

是的。事實上，我請您進一步探討您如何看待 B2B 的長期成長，因為您一直對 B2B 的獲利機會發表看法。如果您能就您如何看待短期和長期目標以及有哪些機會發表看法，那就太好了。謝謝。

Okay. So -- and Maria, just to be clear, it's just B2B or it's in general?

好的。所以——瑪麗亞，為了確認一下，是指B2B業務還是也包括一般業務？

B2B and IoT, which is in the B2B side.

B2B 和物聯網，後者屬於 B2B 領域。

B2B and IoT, okay. Got you. So, Maria, it's basically, the way we're -- as you know, our legacy on B2B is pretty small. So if you compare us to other players in the market, we don't have a legacy. And therefore, we put together a strategy that is specific to our DNA. So we selected some verticals. And the verticals we selected, for the time being, are agribusiness. It is the first one that we launched. Infrastructure was the second one. We got utilities that it's quite promising in Brazil, and mining.

B2B和物聯網，好的。抓到你了。所以，瑪麗亞，基本上，我們的情況就是這樣——正如你所知，我們在 B2B 領域的成就相當有限。所以，如果將我們與市場上的其他參與者進行比較，我們沒有歷史底蘊。因此，我們制定了一項符合我們自身DNA的策略。所以我們選擇了一些垂直領域。而我們目前選擇的垂直領域是農業綜合企業。這是我們推出的第一款產品。基礎設施是第二大重點。我們看到巴西的公用事業和採礦業前景相當光明。

And we selected these verticals because we think they got a larger fit with our technological, let's say, DNA, let's put it this way. And the way we look at this is that we started organically now, and we got quite a traction on these four verticals on a concept that we call coverage as a service, primarily. And this has been driving in the -- as we speak, the growth in these verticals.

我們選擇這些垂直領域，是因為我們認為它們與我們的技術，或者說DNA，更契合。我們認為，我們最初是自然而然地起步的，並且主要透過我們稱之為「報道即服務」的概念，在這四個垂直領域中獲得了相當大的發展勢頭。而這正是推動這些垂直領域成長的原因——就在我們說話的時候。

When you look more at the medium term, we have the ambition to increase our portfolio of solutions to include security, to include cloud that we can cross upsell to our services and possibly to expand the number of verticals we are servicing. As an example, the one that we are working is manufacturing.

從中長期來看，我們的目標是擴大解決方案組合，包括安全解決方案、雲端服務（我們可以將其交叉銷售到我們的服務中），並有可能擴大我們服務的垂直行業數量。例如，我們正在從事的領域是製造業。

And these competencies and capabilities, we can grow them internally, and we are working on that already. We've been working on that already. But we are also looking at ICT inorganic moves that will provide us the ability at a faster pace to win a larger share of wallet of our customers. So this is not something that -- so we moved -- it's something new within our strategy. It's been launched a few years ago.

這些能力和技能，我們可以在內部培養，而且我們已經在為此努力了。我們一直在努力解決這個問題。但我們也正在研究資訊通信技術領域的非有機成長舉措，這將使我們能夠更快地贏得客戶更大的錢包份額。所以這不是我們採取的行動——這是我們策略中的一項新舉措。它幾年前就推出了。

We almost reached BRL1 billion of contracted revenues over these years. We are recognizing as a leading partner in the verticals where we operate. If you look at the clients we have there, we've been successful commercially. And now we have, in the coming years, the objective is to consolidate our positioning and expand the portfolio of services and the relationship with our customers. And therefore, if you look more on the medium term, it's going to be a mix of organic and inorganic growth.

這些年來，我們的合約收入幾乎達到了10億雷亞爾。我們在所營運的垂直領域中被公認為領先的合作夥伴。看看我們在那裡的客戶，我們在商業上是成功的。而現在，在未來幾年，我們的目標是鞏固我們的市場地位，擴大服務組合，並加強與客戶的關係。因此，從中長期來看，成長方式將是有機成長和無機成長相結合。

Phani Kanumuri, Santander.

Phani Kanumuri，桑坦德。

Hi. So I have a couple of questions here. The first one is on your operating cash flow after lease. In the first nine months, it has a growth rate of 11.8%, but it's trending slightly lower than the 14% to 16% for this year. So what is driving that?

你好。我這裡有幾個問題。第一個問題是關於租賃後的經營現金流。前九個月的成長率為 11.8%，但略低於今年 14% 至 16% 的成長率。那麼，是什麼因素導致了這種情況呢？

And the second one is looking at the competitive situation now, how do you -- how confident are you on your three-year plan in terms of revenue guidance and results? Thank you.

第二個問題是，從目前的競爭狀況來看，您對三年計畫的收入預期和業績有多大信心？謝謝。

Let me take the first one, and I will pass the second one to Andrea. I will repeat it just to be sure that we understand it correctly. So the first one in terms of competitive environment, we -- as I mentioned, I think, to Bernardo in the first question, we -- the overall -- at least on mobile and not on broadband, but on mobile, the competitive environment remains rational.

第一個我拿，第二個我交給安德烈亞。我再重複一遍，以確保我們理解正確。所以，就競爭環境而言，首先，正如我之前在第一個問題中對貝爾納多提到的那樣，我們——總體而言——至少在行動領域（而不是寬頻領域），但在行動領域，競爭環境仍然是理性的。

And therefore, we are in the position basically to keep growing the top line according to the guidance that we shared with you last year. Of course, as every year, in February next year, we're going to upgrade it. And therefore, when you look at the overall mobile environment, I would say that it didn't change versus the picture that we presented when we shared our guidance in February.

因此，我們基本上可以按照去年與大家分享的指導方針，繼續實現營收成長。當然，和往年一樣，明年二月我們將對其進行升級。因此，從整體移動環境來看，我認為它與我們在 2 月分享指導意見時所呈現的情況相比並沒有改變。

Therefore, everything is confirmed. Of course, there are nuances whereby we see postpaid in mobile driving the growth and a potentially improving situation in the prepaid environment.

因此，一切都已確認。當然，其中也存在一些細微差別，例如行動後付費業務正在推動成長，而預付費業務的情況也可能有所改善。

When you look -- and the second question, if I understood correctly, is the operating free cash flow dynamics, 11.8% versus our guidance of 14%, 16%. Was that the question, Phani?

當你查看——如果我理解正確的話，第二個問題是經營自由現金流動態，11.8% 與我們 14%、16% 的指導相比。那是你的問題嗎，Phani？

That's the question, Alberto.

這就是問題所在，阿爾貝托。

Yeah, that's the question. Basically, if you look at our dynamics, we are confirming our guidance. And we believe that when you look at how revenue growth, EBITDA expansion, EBITDA after lease expansion and CapEx will combine in the next quarter, this will put our operating free cash flow expansion within the range of our guidance.

對，這正是問題所在。基本上，如果你觀察我們的動態，你會發現我們正在印證我們的指導方針。我們相信，從下一季營收成長、EBITDA 擴張、租賃擴張後的 EBITDA 以及資本支出綜合來看，這將使我們的經營自由現金流擴張達到預期範圍。

Now since we are at the end of the year, basically, you can easily do the calculation and see what this will imply in our numbers. But I'll leave this to you, but we are confirming our guidance for the full year.

現在已是年底，基本上，您可以輕鬆地進行計算，看看這對我們的數字意味著什麼。但這就交給你們決定了，不過我們正在確認全年的業績指引。

David Lopes, New Street Research.

David Lopes，新街研究公司。

Just a couple of follow-ups. On the price increase you did in Q3, I was wondering if you could give a bit more color like maybe the magnitude and what's the percentage of the base affected? And now that prepaid trends are easing, I was wondering if next year, do you have a possibility to do a price increase next year on prepaid? Or is it still too early?

還有幾個後續問題。關於您在第三季進行的價格上漲，我想請您詳細說明一下，例如漲價幅度以及受影響的客戶群佔總客戶群的百分比？現在預付費趨勢有所緩和，我想知道明年你們是否有可能提高預付費的價格？還是現在說這些還太早？

And the second question is on B2B. I was wondering if you could give any maybe color on margins you're getting from B2B? Is it dilutive to your margins or not? Thank you.

第二個問題是關於B2B的。我想問一下，您能否提供一些關於您從B2B業務中獲得的利潤率的資訊？這樣會稀釋你的利潤率嗎？謝謝。

Okay. David, I got the last two questions. I will address. I lost the first one. So on the second one, this is a prepaid price increase.

好的。大衛，我答對了最後兩個問題。我將對此作出回應。我輸掉了第一個。所以第二個問題是預付價格上漲。

Just an overall comment. Basically, the -- when you look at the more-for-more strategy, this is the way we implement it. So generally, it's a price adjustment that always comes with some extra benefits for our customer base.

僅作整體評價。基本上，當你審視「多付出，更多回報」的策略時，這就是我們實施它的方式。所以總的來說，價格調整總是會為我們的客戶群帶來一些額外的好處。

And on prepaid, given the construct of the offer, it's a bit trickier to change the price -- as today, we're basically marketing BRL1 per day. So it's deeply linked in the offer construct as a sort of easy to deconstruct.

而對於預付費套餐，由於其優惠結構，價格的改變就比較棘手了——因為目前我們基本上是以每天 1 雷亞爾的價格進行行銷。因此，它與產品/服務結構緊密相關，是一種易於解構的要素。

I would say that we are exploring as a way to monetize our customer base, the prepaid to control migration. And that's a way that we found very effective to monetize our customer base. And we'll keep doing it.

我認為我們正在探索一種利用預付費模式來控制用戶遷移，從而實現客戶群獲利的方法。我們發現，這是一種非常有效的客戶群變現方式。我們會繼續這樣做。

And the other thing we are looking at is the way we balance the benefits between prepaid and control to make sure that the migration makes sense as we increase prices. And so therefore, not entering into a lot of details into how we're going to do this, we can explore this in the one-to-one section, where we got some plans there as well.

我們還需要考慮如何平衡預付費和控制之間的收益，以確保在價格上漲的情況下，這種遷移是合理的。因此，我們就不詳細討論我們將如何做到這一點了，我們可以在一對一部分探討這個問題，我們在那裡也有一些計劃。

When you look at the marginality of B2B, so the marginality of B2B, generally speaking, when you look, we got 50-plus EBITDA margin. The B2B offering goes below typically this number. But when you look at what really matters, which is cash flow generation, they are accretive. So they generally tend to be dilutive on the EBITDA margin, but that tends to be accretive on the bottom line. And that's it.

當你觀察 B2B 的邊際效益時，一般來說，當你觀察 B2B 的邊際效益時，你會發現我們的 EBITDA 利潤率超過 50%。B2B產品的報價通常低於這個數字。但當你真正關注的是現金流的產生時，你會發現它們是有益的。因此，它們通常會稀釋 EBITDA 利潤率，但這往往會增加淨利潤。就這樣。

The first question, I'm not sure I got it. There was a first question or was these two questions, David?

第一個問題，我不太確定我是否理解了。大衛，你是不是有一個問題，還是有兩個問題？

It was just on the -- if you could comment on the magnitude of the price increase you did and what percentage of the base? Did you do the price increase just to hybrid or some pure postpaid customers?

剛才我想問的是——您能否就此次價格上漲的幅度以及漲幅佔總價的百分比發表評論？你們這次漲價是只針對混合套裝用戶，還是也針對部分純後付費用戶？

This year, we did -- there are two types of price adjustments. We classify front book and back book adjustment. On the back book adjustment, we impacted both control and pure postpaid. We did it already. And it's not 100% of the customer base because we personalize this depending on a number of things in order to minimize attrition and churn management. But we did the back book price adjustment at the beginning of the year for both control and pure postpaid.

今年，我們確實進行了價格調整——價格調整有兩種類型。我們將前冊調整和後冊調整分為兩類。在後帳調整方面，我們同時影響了控制型和純後付費型用戶。我們已經做到了。而且這並非針對所有客戶，因為我們會根據多種因素進行個人化客製化，以最大限度地減少客戶流失和客戶流失管理。但我們在年初對控制套餐和純後付費套餐都進行了價格調整。

When you go to the front book price adjustment, we did those adjustments in midyear for control, and we didn't do it for pure postpaid. And I think that was the question from a colleague of yours before. And basically, what we are looking at is to make this adjustment. We are assessing. We didn't decide yet, but we think that there is space to adjust them, not now because we are in a promotional -- in a seasonal period of the year with the Black Friday and the Christmas campaign. So it's something that is probably going to happen in the first quarter of next year.

當談到前端書籍價格調整時，我們在年中進行了這些調整以進行控制，而我們沒有對純粹的後付費用戶進行調整。我想這應該是你一位同事之前問過的問題。基本上，我們正​​在考慮做出這樣的調整。我們正在評估。我們還沒有決定，但我們認為還有調整的空間，現在不是調整的時候，因為我們正處於促銷期——正值黑色星期五和聖誕節促銷活動期間。所以這件事很可能會在明年第一季發生。

(Operator Instructions) Ladies and gentlemen, without any more questions, I will return the floor back to Mr. Alberto Griselli for his final remarks. Please, Mr. Alberto, you may proceed.

（操作說明）女士們、先生們，不再提問，現在我將發言權交還給阿爾貝托·格里塞利先生，請他作最後的總結發言。阿爾貝托先生，請您繼續前進。

So thank you all for joining today's video call. We are arriving at the end of the year with strong momentum. We are executing our strategy with discipline and consistency. Despite being just two months away from 2026, we still have a lot to accomplish in '25. This year-end will be very exciting, and we expect to deliver on the promises we made to the market.

感謝各位參加今天的視訊通話。我們帶著強勁的勢頭進入了年底。我們正以嚴謹的態度和始終如一的作風來執行我們的策略。儘管距離 2026 年只有兩個月了，但我們在 2025 年仍然有很多事情要做。今年年底將會非常令人興奮，我們期待兌現我們對市場的承諾。

I really want to thank the entire team for their commitment and relentless drive. Thank you. And I look forward to catching up with you guys in the one-to-one session. Lastly, a final message to our sales team. We put together a special Black Friday offer for our customers. Let's go for it. Ciao.

我衷心感謝整個團隊的付出和不懈努力。謝謝。我期待在單獨會面中與大家交流。最後，我想對我們的銷售團隊說幾句話。我們為顧客準備了特別的黑色星期五優惠活動。放手一搏吧。你好。

We conclude the third quarter of 2025 conference call of TIM SA. For further information and details of the company, please access our website, tim.com.br/ir. You can disconnect from now on, and thank you once again.

TIM SA 2025 年第三季電話會議到此結束。如需了解更多公司資訊和詳情，請造訪我們的網站 tim.com.br/ir。現在您可以斷開連接了，再次感謝您的關注。