Tim SA (TIMB) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to TIM S.A. 2025 first quarter results video conference call. We'd like to inform you that this event is being recorded and all participants will be in listen-only mode during the company's presentation.

女士們、先生們，早安。歡迎參加TIM S.A. 2025年第一季業績視訊電話會議。我們想通知您，此次活動正在錄製中，所有參與者在公司演示期間將處於只聽模式。

There will be a replay for this call on the company's website. After TIM S.A. remarks are completed, there will be a Q&A section for participants. At that time, further instructions will be given.

該公司的網站上將會重播此次電話會議。TIM S.A. 發言結束後，將有一段供參與者問答的環節。屆時將會給予進一步的指示。

Hello, I'm Vicente Ferreira, head of Investor Relations. Welcome to China Say's earnings conference for the first quarter of 2025. This video highlights our recent performance and how we see the market evolving in 2025.

您好，我是投資者關係主管 Vicente Ferreira。歡迎參加China Say 2025年第一季財報發表會。這部影片重點介紹了我們最近的表現以及我們對 2025 年市場發展的看法。

Afterward, we'll have a live Q&A with our CEO, Alberto Griselli, and our CFO, Andrea Viegas. Please note that management may make forward-looking statements and this presentation may contain them. Refer to the disclaimer on the screen and on our investor relations website.

之後，我們將與我們的執行長 Alberto Griselli 和財務長 Andrea Viegas 進行現場問答。請注意，管理階層可能會做出前瞻性陳述，而本簡報可能包含這些陳述。請參閱螢幕上和我們的投資者關係網站上的免責聲明。

Now, let's review our results.

現在，讓我們回顧一下我們的結果。

Hello, everyone. I'm Alberto Griselli, CEO of Team Brazil. Despite a volatile external environment in the first quarter, we have seen a solid start to the year. We successfully implemented our strategy and delivered consistent numbers. Our mobile revenues increased by 6.2% year-over-year, driven by strong post-pay growth. Our EBITDA grew by 6.7% yearly, with margin expansion reflecting our efficient operational execution. We also saw a double-digit expansion in operational leakage flow, reaching BRL1 billion. In the quarter, we announced BRL690 million as interest on capital. Our strategic initiatives are paying off.

大家好。我是巴西隊執行長 Alberto Griselli。儘管第一季外部環境動盪，但今年開局依然穩健。我們成功實施了我們的策略並取得了穩定的業績。受後付費業務強勁成長的推動，我們的行動收入年增 6.2%。我們的 EBITDA 年成長 6.7%，利潤率的擴大反映了我們高效的營運執行。我們也看到營運洩漏流量呈現兩位數成長，達到 10 億巴西雷亞爾。本季度，我們宣布了 6.9 億巴西雷亞爾的資本利息。我們的策略性舉措正在取得成效。

Following the launch of a fully updated version of the Meu TIM app, we saw significant growth in users. We are boosting our presence in Sao Paolo with a 360 degrees approach to customer experience, modernizing the network and revamping our go-to-market strategy in the region. The first quarter was also marked by notable development in the new business initiatives, with the launch of a new partnership and a special focus on the B2B utilities vertical.

在推出 Meu TIM 應用程式的全面更新版本後，我們看到用戶數量顯著增長。我們正在透過全方位的客戶體驗、現代化的網絡和改進我們在該地區的行銷策略來提升我們在聖保羅的影響力。第一季度，新業務計劃也取得了顯著發展，建立了新的合作夥伴關係，並特別關注 B2B 公用事業垂直領域。

Service revenues started the year at a solid pace, growing 5.6% year-over-year. As mentioned before, the postpaid segment drove the revenues dynamics with close to 14% yearly growth. The 6.2% growth in mobile revenues results from robust human postpaid-based growth, almost 7% year-on-year, and sound ARPU performance in postpaid and blended.

年初以來，服務收入保持穩健成長，年增 5.6%。如前所述，後付費部分推動了營收成長，年增率接近 14%。行動收入成長 6.2% 得益於強勁的後付費成長（年成長近 7%）以及後付費和混合業務的良好 ARPU 表現。

The increase in mobile ARPU indicates effective customer monetization strategies, which emphasizes team successful upselling efforts. Now, 50% of our base is composed by postpaid lines, with revenues representing almost 70%. While we celebrate our postpaid performance, we continue to work on recovering the prepaid.

行動 ARPU 的增加表明客戶貨幣化策略有效，這強調了團隊成功的追加銷售努力。現在，我們的用戶群中有 50% 是由後付費線路組成的，收入佔接近 70%。在我們慶祝後付費表現的同時，我們繼續努力恢復預付費。

Our three-step plan is designed for the medium-term, so resilience and consistency are keys for the plan to bear fruits. Sao Paolo is the focus of a special project that aims to apply a 360 approach to translate our network leadership into customer experience and perception change. We are modernizing over 3,000 sites, which will significantly improve network capacity.

我們的三步驟計畫是針對中期而設計的，因此韌性和一致性是該計畫取得成果的關鍵。聖保羅是一個特殊專案的重點，該專案旨在採用 360 度方法將我們的網路領先地位轉化為客戶體驗和感知的改變。我們正在對 3,000 多個站點進行現代化改造，這將顯著提高網路容量。

In this network swap so far, we have seen a 40% increase in coverage and capacity, while energy consumption is falling 15%. This infrastructure evolution will expand further our network quality leadership. Attested by Opensignal network consultancy, we already had the best quality in the state and were awarded the best experience during Carnival. Now, we will have absolute leadership in all neighborhoods of Sao Paolo City.

到目前為止，在這次網路切換中，我們已經看到覆蓋範圍和容量增加了40％，而能源消耗下降了15％。這種基礎設施的演變將進一步擴大我們的網路品質領先地位。經 Opensignal 網路顧問公司證明，我們已經擁有全州最好的質量，並在狂歡節期間獲得了最佳體驗。現在，我們將在聖保羅市所有街區擁有絕對的領導地位。

We are adjusting our go-to market in the region to help bridge this art evidence to perception. We just launched a flagship store on Oscar Freire Street, an area famous for its sophistication and luxury spots. It is the Brazilian version of Rio Drive. This marks a significant milestone for us, showcasing to customers a different positioning where quality and value are prime. Adding to this boost in presence in Sao Paolo, we had the first edition of team music event in the city.

我們正在調整我們在該地區的市場，以幫助將這種藝術證據與感知聯繫起來。我們剛剛在奧斯卡弗萊雷街開設了一家旗艦店，該地區以其精緻和奢華而聞名。這是巴西版的 Rio Drive。這對我們來說是一個重要的里程碑，向客戶展示了以品質和價值為首要的不同定位。除增強在聖保羅的影響力外，我們還在該市舉辦了首屆團隊音樂活動。

The results were fantastic. Tickets were distributed out in minutes. We achieved massive engagement levels on social media and it was a PR success. The concert was all over the media. The successful team music event and the new iconic store reflect a force to boost brand perception and customer engagement. Sao Paolo is the country's richest state, so it's natural to be the focus of our attention, but we will apply similar tactics in other regions of the country. We are commencing a new stage of our 3B strategy. Changing gears to new revenue streams, our B2B IoT strategy is performing well. We've seen substantial growth in contracted revenues, particularly in agribusiness, logistics and utilities.

結果非常棒。門票幾分鐘內就分發完畢。我們在社群媒體上獲得了巨大的參與度，這是公關上的成功。這場音樂會引起了各大媒體的廣泛關注。成功的團隊音樂活動和新的標誌性商店體現了提升品牌認知度和客戶參與度的力量。聖保羅是全國最富有的州，因此自然成為我們關注的焦點，但我們也會在該國其他地區採取類似的策略。我們的3B戰略正在邁入新階段。透過轉向新的收入​​來源，我們的 B2B 物聯網策略表現良好。我們看到合約收入大幅成長，特別是在農業綜合企業、物流和公用事業領域。

Specifically, in the last vertical, we are ramping up our presence. We are expanding the services we sell on our own and with partners, showcasing team's commitment to provide integrated solutions that enhance operational efficiency for clients in various sectors. In addition to our well-known solution for public smart lighting, we are now prized in water management, gas distribution telemetry and energy distribution metering.

具體來說，在最後一個垂直領域，我們正在加強我們的存在。我們正在擴大我們自行銷售以及與合作夥伴共同銷售的服務，展示團隊致力於為各個領域的客戶提供可提高營運效率的綜合解決方案的承諾。除了我們著名的公共智慧照明解決方案外，我們現在在水管理、天然氣分配遙測和能源分配計量方面也備受讚譽。

We are committed to further developing the B2B opportunity, expanding our addressable market and opening new avenues of growth. Our digital ecosystem continues to expand, with significant growth in customer registrations and transaction volumes. Now we are launching new initiatives in the energy sector, partnering to create value in both B2B and B2C markets by exploring different energy distribution methods.

我們致力於進一步開發 B2B 機會，擴大我們的潛在市場並開闢新的成長途徑。我們的數位生態系統不斷擴大，客戶註冊量和交易量顯著成長。現在，我們正在能源領域啟動新的舉措，透過探索不同的能源分配方式，合作在 B2B 和 B2C 市場創造價值。

We are set to initiate a pilot project in collaboration with Electrobras. In this project team, we will act as a channel for Electrobras, selling its energy to corporate clients. With Toppen, we have just initiated a pilot project within the distributed generation model under a revenue share agreement.

我們將與 Electrobras 合作啟動一個試點計畫。在這個專案團隊中，我們將作為Electrobras的管道，向企業客戶銷售其能源。我們剛剛與 Toppen 合作，根據收益分成協議在分散式發電模式下啟動了一個試點計畫。

This initiative allow our B2C clients to participate in solar power plant cooperatives, enabling them to reduce their energy expenses. Our proactive approach to diversifying offerings and enhancing customer value through innovative solutions confirms our intention to take TIM’s value proposition to the next level.

這項措施使我們的 B2C 客戶能夠參與太陽能發電廠合作社，從而降低他們的能源開支。我們積極主動地透過創新解決方案實現產品多樣化和提升客戶價值，這證實了我們將 TIM 的價值主張提升到新水平的意圖。

Now let's move on to the financial details with our CFO, Andrea.

現在讓我們與我們的財務長安德里亞 (Andrea) 討論財務細節。

Hello everyone, I'm Andrea Viegas, CFO of TIM. I'm pleased to share that we ended the first quarter with solid figures, reinforcing our progress in cash generation growth and shareholders' value creation. This quarter, I want to highlight our efficiency program, which will help us deal with the impact of inflation, both this year and in the coming years.

大家好，我是 TIM 的財務長 Andrea Viegas。我很高興地告訴大家，我們第一季取得了穩健的業績，鞏固了我們在現金創造成長和股東價值創造方面的進步。本季度，我想強調我們的效率計劃，這將幫助我們應對今年和未來幾年通貨膨脹的影響。

The program we have been implementing since last year aims to improve productivity and customer experience, while ensuring margin expansion. The focus on technology and organizational levers reflects a commitment to innovation and operational excellence. Our outlooks running below inflation reflect an effective cost management strategy, key to staying competitive and reinvesting in activities that can more directly impact clients' perceptions.

我們自去年以來實施的計劃旨在提高生產力和客戶體驗，同時確保利潤率的擴大。對技術和組織槓桿的關注體現了對創新和卓越營運的承諾。我們的低於通膨率的前景反映了有效的成本管理策略，這是保持競爭力和對能夠更直接影響客戶看法的活動進行再投資的關鍵。

This approach supports TIM consistent EBITDA growth and margin expansion. Our EBITDA grew by 6.7% year-over-year, adding 80 basis points to our margin, which surpassed 48%. EBITDA after lease also presents a solid increase with margin improvement. Lease payments were stable compared to last quarter, but grew high single-digit year-over-year. We have specific initiatives to control leases, so we'll focus on this in the coming quarters.

這種方法支持 TIM 持續的 EBITDA 成長和利潤率擴大。我們的 EBITDA 年成長 6.7%，利潤率增加了 80 個基點，超過 48%。租賃後的 EBITDA 也呈現穩定成長，利潤率也有所提高。租賃付款與上一季相比保持穩定，但同比增長了高個位數。我們有具體的舉措來控制租賃，因此我們將在未來幾季重點關注這一點。

Our net income grew more than 50% year-over-year, marking the 80th consecutive quarter of double-digit expansion and reaching the highest net income level for our first quarter in TIM’s history. To finalize our review of the financial results, it's worth highlighting our operational cash flow performance, another double-digit increase of almost 20%, with our cash flow margin reaching almost 16%. Despite seasonal effects, working capital improved significantly in the quarter. We also maintain a robust balance sheet with strong liquidity and manageable debt levels.

我們的淨收入年增超過 50%，這是連續第 80 個季度實現兩位數增長，並達到了 TIM 歷史上第一季的最高淨收入水平。為了最終審查財務結果，值得強調的是我們的營運現金流表現，再次實現了近 20% 的兩位數成長，我們的現金流利潤率達到近 16%。儘管受到季節性影響，本季營運資本仍顯著改善。我們也維持穩健的資產負債表，流動性強，債務水準可控。

Again, all these numbers reflect TIM’s capacity to turn revenues into cash and demonstrate our strong financial health. Now back to Alberto.

再一次，所有這些數字都反映了 TIM 將收入轉化為現金的能力，並證明了我們強大的財務狀況。現在回到阿爾貝托。

As we conclude, I want to summarize TIM’s strategic focus areas for the quarter ahead. First, our commitment to competitive rationality in the market is evident. We want to intelligently enhance our mobile value proposition. We are applying that to the prepaid recovery plan and expect progress in the coming months. Second, the emphasis on expanding the B2B IoT portfolio and growing our partnerships under the digital ecosystem reflects a proactive approach to innovation.

最後，我想總結一下 TIM 未來一個季度的策略重點領域。首先，我們對市場競爭理性的承諾是顯而易見的。我們希望以智慧的方式提升我們的行動價值主張。我們正在將其應用於預付費恢復計劃，並預計在未來幾個月內取得進展。其次，強調擴大B2B物聯網產品組合和發展數位生態系統下的合作關係，體現了積極主動的創新方式。

Adding these new revenues opportunities will help us deliver sustainable growth. Third, the focus on operational efficiency translates into a more conservative view of TIM Ultrafibra evolution in a challenging broadband market. Fourth, this efficiency mindset permeates all the areas of the company and, as Andrea mentioned, we have a program in place that covers OPEX, for this one we presented the levers we have today, working capital, in this case we are finalizing a set of actions to help our performance throughout the year, and leases.

增加這些新的收入機會將有助於我們實現永續成長。第三，對營運效率的關注意味著對在充滿挑戰的寬頻市場中 TIM Ultrafibra 的發展持更保守的看法。第四，這種效率思維滲透到了公司的各個領域，正如安德里亞所提到的，我們有一個涵蓋營運支出 (OPEX) 的計劃，為此，我們介紹了我們目前擁有的槓桿、營運資金，在這種情況下，我們正在最終確定一系列行動以幫助我們提高全年的業績，以及租賃。

As you know, since the days of the commissioning of Oi Towers, this is an area where we need to transform the sector. We need to change the relationship we have with the tower company. Before we conclude, I'd like to highlight that we have been listed on the CDPA list for the second year in a row. Today, we are the only operator in Brazil with this status.

如你所知，自從大井塔投入使用以來，我們就需要對這個領域進行改造。我們需要改變與塔公司的關係。在結束之前，我想強調一下，我們已經連續第二年被列入 CDPA 名單。如今，我們是巴西唯一擁有此地位的營運商。

This is a clear demonstration of our commitment to sustainability. In conclusion, we have started 2025 with solid momentum, paving the way to meet our annual guidance. Our strong cash flow evolution and commitment to operational excellence position us well for the challenges ahead. Thank you for your attention. Now, let's move to the live Q&A session.

這清楚地表明了我們對永續發展的承諾。總而言之，我們以強勁的勢頭開啟了 2025 年，為實現年度指導目標鋪平了道路。我們強勁的現金流發展和對卓越營運的承諾使我們能夠很好地應對未來的挑戰。感謝您的關注。現在，讓我們進入現場問答環節。

Before we start the Q&A session, I will hand the floor to Mr. Roberto. Please, Mr. Roberto, you may proceed.

在我們開始問答環節之前，我將把發言權交給羅伯托先生。羅伯托先生，請您繼續。

Thank you. Good morning, everybody. Before we start our Q&A, just a quick remark. This morning, we were confirmed as the most sustainable company in Brazil. We ranked first among all companies in the Corporate Sustainability Index of the Brazilian Stock Exchange. This result reinforces our leading role in ESG among Brazilian publicly traded companies, and it's worth remembering that we have been in the selected group of companies for 17 consecutive years, the longest streak for a telco.

謝謝。大家早安。在我們開始問答之前，先簡單說一下。今天早上，我們被確認為巴西最具永續發展能力的公司。我們在巴西證券交易所企業永續發展指數的所有公司中排名第一。這一結果鞏固了我們在巴西上市公司中 ESG 領域的領先地位，值得一提的是，我們已連續 17 年入選該名單，是電信公司連續入選時間最長的一次。

Now, we can proceed with the Q&A. Please, operator.

現在我們可以進行問答環節。請接線生。

Thank you. We are now going to start the Q&A session for investors and analysts.(Operator Instructions)

謝謝。我們現在開始投資人和分析師問答環節。 （操作員指示）

Bernardo Guttman, XP.

貝爾納多·古特曼，XP。

Hi, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Actually, I have two here. The first one is related to mobile growth. The postpaid segment remains quite resilient, but the prepaid continues to perform below expectation. Could you elaborate on the adjustment made and the levers for improvement in the prepaid segment? And my second question concerns costs in the current inflationary environment. What are the main efficiency levers for improving margins throughout the year? Thank you.

大家好，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。事實上，我這裡有兩個。第一個與移動成長有關。後付費部分仍保持相當的彈性，但預付費部分的表現仍低於預期。您能否詳細說明預付費部分所做的調整以及改進的手段？我的第二個問題涉及當前通膨環境下的成本。全年提高利潤率的主要效率槓桿是什麼？謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, thank you, Bernardo. So, I will take the first one and pass to the second one to Andrea for the cost one. So, on the revenue growth, so we are seeing in this quarter a similar set of dynamics like the last quarter. Postpaid is the main driver of growth, primarily sustained by price adjustment and pre-to-control migration and control to postpaid migration that was pretty strong in this first quarter, whereby prepaid is suffering.

好吧，謝謝你，貝爾納多。因此，我將拿走第一個，並將第二個傳遞給 Andrea 並收取費用。因此，就營收成長而言，我們在本季看到了與上一季類似的動態。後付費是成長的主要動力，主要得益於價格調整以及預付費向管制遷移和管制向後付費遷移，前者在第一季表現相當強勁，而後者則受到影響。

Just remember, Bernardo, prepaid is suffering in general. So, the market for recharges is decreasing as all operators are migrating prepaid customers to control, and there is some constraint on the demand side. So, we put in place a plan on our side that is made up of a combination of the three levers that we discussed in the previous quarter, the offer itself that received a boost in this first quarter, the communication that we are trying to make it a bit more consistent in time in order for the value proposition to come across to our customer, and some tactical actions on the channels.

請記住，貝爾納多，預付費總體上正在遭受損失。因此，由於所有營運商都在轉移預付費客戶以進行控制，並且需求方面受到一些限制，因此儲值市場正在萎縮。因此，我們制定了一項計劃，該計劃由上一季度討論過的三個槓桿組合而成，包括在第一季度得到提升的報價本身、我們試圖及時使其更加一致的溝通，以便讓客戶了解價值主張，以及在渠道上採取的一些戰術行動。

The objective of these are twofold. From one side, increase the loyalty of our customers to us. As you know, the churn rates in Brazil are still high, and the second one is to get a larger share of the share market to us. We have in our plan a negative growth for prepaid throughout the years, and what we are working on is to slow down the decrease over time. So, Andrea, maybe you can take the one on cost.

其目的有雙重。從一個方面來說，增加客戶對我們的忠誠度。如你所知，巴西的客戶流失率仍然很高，第二個目標是讓我們獲得更大的市場佔有率。我們的計劃是，多年來預付費一直呈現負成長，而我們正在努力減緩這種下降趨勢。那麼，安德里亞，也許你可以選擇成本問題。

Yes. Hi, Bernardo. Related to the cost and the margin, we are, as you know, always working very closely to reduction in the cost and in our efficiency program. We have several initiatives, AI, digitalization, make-or-buy, and also a very cost-controlled approach in several initiatives inside the company. But considering inflation, our biggest concern this year is related to the lease, because lease have a direct impact from inflation, and we are working several initiatives related to lease for mitigating these impacts. Renegotiations, with the towers, another program that we are putting in practice, and we are very focused in mitigating this specific line that is our biggest concern related to inflation.

是的。你好，貝納多。關於成本和利潤，如您所知，我們一直在密切合作以降低成本並提高效率。我們有多項舉措，包括人工智慧、數位化、自主研發或外購，並且在公司內部的多項舉措中採取了非常控製成本的方法。但考慮到通貨膨脹，我們今年最大的擔憂與租賃有關，因為租賃受到通貨膨脹的直接影響，我們正在採取多項與租賃相關的措施來減輕這些影響。我們正在實施的另一項計劃是與塔樓進行重新談判，我們非常注重緩解這條與通貨膨脹有關的最大擔憂。

Very clear, Andrea. Thank you very much Alberto.

非常清楚，安德里亞。非常感謝 Alberto。

Marcelo Santos from JP Morgan

摩根大通的馬塞洛·桑托斯

Hi, good morning, Alberto, Andrea, Vicente, Luisa, thank you for taking my questions. I'll focus my questions on the growth, on the mobile service revenue growth. You already talked about prepaid, but I want to turn the attention a bit to postpaid. It was very strong, but I understand it was impacted by a different seasonality in the price increases. So, I wonder if you could help us a bit understand, like, how much did bringing the price increase from April, May to March help the growth of postpaid in this first quarter.

嗨，早安，Alberto、Andrea、Vicente、Luisa，謝謝你們回答我的問題。我的問題將集中在成長、行動服務收入成長。您已經談到了預付費，但我想將注意力轉向後付費。它非常強勁，但我知道它受到價格上漲的不同季節性的影響。所以，我想知道您是否可以幫助我們了解一下，例如，從 4 月、5 月到 3 月的價格上漲對第一季後付費的成長有多大幫助。

And if you could give more details, like, when during March was this increase applied, how much of the base was affected? I don't know, anything you could give there. What was the average increase? Just for us to understand how much of this increase could be propagated going forward. Thank you very much.

您能否提供更多細節，例如，三月何時實施了這一增長，影響了多少基數？我不知道你能提供什麼。平均增幅是多少？只是為了讓我們了解這種成長在未來能延續多少。非常感謝。

Okay, Marcelo. So, when you look at the revenue growth for postpaid, it's made up of three main drivers at the end of the day. So, we are talking about the price adjustment, and at this point in time, we are talking about back book price adjustment. We are talking about prepaid to control migration, and we are talking about control to postpaid migration. So, when you look at the combination of these three factors, they all impact what we are looking at in terms of the results of this quarter. They came up pretty strong.

好的，馬塞洛。因此，當你觀察後付費的收入成長時，你會發現它最終是由三個主要驅動因素構成的。所以，我們正在談論價格調整，而此時此刻，我們正在談論往期書籍價格調整。我們正在討論預付費向控制遷移，我們正在討論控制向後付費遷移。因此，當你綜合考慮這三個因素時，它們都會影響我們對本季業績的觀察。他們表現得非常強大。

And the three elements are in place. So, our postpaid customer base is growing healthy. This is the first note. We have a pretty strong intra-postpaid migration. It's a double-digit growth. And then we got a different personality, yes, in terms of price adjustment that, as we mentioned in many one-to-one meetings, occurred in between the first quarter and the second quarter, with some anticipation of some cycles in the first quarter.

而這三個要素都已具備。因此，我們的後付費客戶群正在健康成長。這是第一篇筆記。我們的後付費內部遷移相當強勁。這是一個兩位數的成長。是的，在價格調整方面，我們有了不同的個性，正如我們在許多一對一會議中提到的那樣，價格調整發生在第一季和第二季之間，並且預計第一季會出現一些週期。

So, overall, all these effects, they sum up to the strong performance in the year. When you look at the drivers going forward, we intend to have, for mobile service revenue, the postpaid as our main growth engines in the coming quarters. And as generally happens, you will see that growth tend to slow down on the subsequent quarters. And so, this will be a typical trend that we are likely to see in the coming years.

因此，總體而言，所有這些影響都促成了今年的強勁表現。展望未來的驅動力，我們打算將行動服務收入、後付費作為未來幾季的主要成長引擎。通常情況下，你會發現隨後幾季的成長趨於放緩。因此，這將是我們在未來幾年可能看到的典型趨勢。

So, when you look at the overall composition, we're going to have, or we are working on, sustaining a solid growth on postpaid, whereby we are working to have a slower decrease on prepaid going forward.

因此，從整體結構來看，我們將會，或者說我們正在努力，保持後付費業務的穩健成長，同時，我們正在努力使預付費業務在未來的下降速度減緩。

Perfect. Just a clarification, was the full postpaid base and control affected by the price increases?

完美的。只是澄清一下，全額後付費基礎和控制權是否受到價格上漲的影響？

We generally don't impact, and this is as in every year, we do the price adjustment on a subset of the postpaid customer base. We tend to keep some of the customers out, depending on the level of propensity and insurance or complaints. And we generally also have a few different moments in time when we do this adjustment. So, there is an in-one that occurred in between the first and the second quarter, but there are further adjustments down the line of minor intensity.

我們通常不會產生影響，就像每年一樣，我們都會對部分後付費客戶群進行價格調整。我們傾向於將部分客戶拒之門外，這取決於傾向程度、保險或投訴。我們進行這種調整時通常也會遇到幾個不同的時刻。因此，在第一季和第二季之間發生了一次內部波動，但之後又進行了強度較小的調整。

Perfect. Thank you very much.

完美的。非常感謝。

Vitor Tomita, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Vitor Tomita。

Hello. Good morning, all. Two questions from our side. The first one is a bit of a follow-up on Marcelo's question. I imagine that this price up still had a smaller effect in March. So, thinking specifically about, had a small effect in the quarter, given that it was only implemented in March. So, we had some interesting ARPU improvement in this quarter. So, do you believe there is room for the ARPU in postpaid to improve further in the next quarter and maybe be a bit more of a boost to revenues?

你好。大家早安。我們有兩個問題。第一個問題與馬塞洛的問題有些相似。我想，三月這次漲價的影響仍然較小。因此，具體來說，考慮到它是在三月才實施的，因此對本季的影響很小。因此，本季我們的 ARPU 值取得了一些有趣的提升。那麼，您是否認為下個季度後付費的 ARPU 還有進一步提升的空間，並且可能對收入產生更大的推動作用？

And the second question, on the same note, how are you thinking about full-year guidance for revenues at this point, given the good result in this quarter? Do you see rooms for upwards revisions or do you believe you are still thinking more about the guidance target as it is now, given that, as you mentioned, you expect some deceleration in that growth in the next few quarters? Thank you very much.

第二個問題，同樣，鑑於本季的良好業績，您如何看待全年的收入預期？您是否認為還有上調的空間，或者您是否認為您仍在更多地考慮目前的指導目標，因為正如您所提到的，您預計未來幾季的成長將會有所放緩？非常感謝。

So, Vitor, let me take the second first, because it's easier to respond. We are committed to deliver our guidance. We just communicated a couple of months ago. So, that's our commitment is. So, we're talking about roughly a 5% revenue increase over time. When it comes to ARPU, you need to remember that the ARPU has been growing, our ARPU has been growing over time, postpaid and compound.

所以，維托，讓我先回答第二個問題，因為它比較容易回答。我們致力於提供指導。我們幾個月前才進行過交流。這就是我們的承諾。所以，我們談論的是隨著時間的推移收入增加約 5%。說到 ARPU，你需要記住，ARPU 一直在成長，我們的 ARPU 一直在隨著時間、後付費和複合而成長。

And you got a number of different drivers for this ARPU to grow. And so, we need to see how this play out in the coming quarters. Because you have something that is clearly accretive, like a back book price adjustment or a front book price adjustment, whereby there is something that is more dilutive, like a prepaid to control migration. So, generally speaking, it's one key metric. We are number one in terms of ARPU. We still have to implement some front book price adjustment in the coming months.

有許多不同的驅動因素可以推動 ARPU 的成長。因此，我們需要觀察未來幾季的情況。因為你擁有一些明顯具有增值作用的東西，例如後期帳簿價格調整或前期帳簿價格調整，而有一些更具稀釋性的東西，例如控制遷移的預付費。所以，一般來說，這是一個關鍵指標。就 ARPU 而言，我們是第一名。未來幾個月我們仍需實施一些前書價格調整。

So, we got some forces pushing forward, but we also have some forces diluting the numbers, which is related to prepaid to control migration. So, that's for the first question.

因此，我們有一些推動力，但也有一些稀釋力量，這與預付費控制遷移有關。這就是第一個問題。

Clear. Thank you very much.

清除。非常感謝。

Gustavo Farias from UBS

瑞銀的 Gustavo Farias

Hi, everyone. Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Two on my end as well. So, the first one, if you could comment a little bit more on leasing payments. I realized from last conference call that most of contracts are already tied to IPCA. And I would like to know if there is more room to negotiation, even considering this or any other levers that you are able to tackle to control leasing payments going forward.

大家好。早安.感謝您回答我的問題。我這邊也有兩個。那麼，第一個問題，您能否就租賃付款再多發表一些評論？我從上次電話會議中意識到大多數合約已經與 IPCA 掛鉤。我想知道是否還有更多的談判空間，甚至考慮到這一點或任何其他您可以採取的手段來控制未來的租賃付款。

And the second one related to working capital, we've seen a pretty strong performance from working capital and contribution to cash generation. I would like to know what can we expect as sustainable level of working capital and any other levers you are able to use to optimize it going forward. Thank you.

第二個與營運資本有關，我們看到營運資本的表現和對現金產生的貢獻相當強勁。我想知道我們可以期待什麼樣的永續營運資本水平，以及您可以使用的任何其他槓桿來優化它。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Hi, Gustavo. Related to the first one, the lease payment, the lease in this quarter was almost at the same level of the last quarter. But you are right, we have IPCA and AGPM that impact this contract. But the most part started in the end of March and April and May. So, in the second quarter, you see the start of an impact on inflation in our lease.

你好，古斯塔沃。與第一個相關，即租賃付款，本季的租賃幾乎與上一季處於同一水平。但您說得對，我們有 IPCA 和 AGPM 影響這份合約。但大部分都是在三月底、四月和五月開始的。因此，在第二季度，您會看到我們的租賃開始對通貨膨脹產生影響。

What we expect and what we already declared as a lease, we are working to keep the increase of the total lease in the year lower than our revenue. This is what we are working very hard to achieve. Besides the negotiation that you mentioned and I mentioned before, we also have another leverage that continues to our decommission, where we see which towers that we have are coming to the end of the contract and try to negotiate these two. Or renew the contract or move it to another lower cost tower.

我們的預期和已經宣布的租賃，我們正在努力使今年的總租賃成長低於我們的收入。這正是我們努力奮鬥想要實現的目標。除了您和我之前提到的談判之外，我們還有另一個可以持續到退役的槓桿，我們可以看看我們擁有的哪些塔的合約即將到期，並嘗試對這兩個塔進行談判。或續約合約或將其轉移到另一個成本較低的塔。

With the second question.

第二個問題。

Let me just add something on the list. So, Gustavo, on the list, so you have a set of levers. Which are these levers? So, as Andrea was saying, we got the negotiation. Negotiation is something that is on the table once we need to deploy new towers. And there are some towers that are getting to the end of the period and we have the opportunity to renegotiate them to a value that is in line with market values.

讓我在列表上添加一些內容。那麼，古斯塔沃，在名單上，所以你有一組槓桿。這些槓桿是什麼？因此，正如安德里亞所說，我們贏得了談判。一旦我們需要部署新的塔，談判就是必須進行的。有些塔樓已經到了使用期限的末期，我們有機會重新協商使其價值與市場價值相符。

On the other hand, you have another set of levers that are the decommissioning of towers. They have been a focus of our company throughout 2024. We decommissioned thousands of towers. So, we get good to do it. We can move towers. And then we got partnership with other operators, whereby we share the infrastructure, like the RAN share agreement with Vivo, for example. So, we have a large set of levers in our place that we are going to deploy in order to keep these line costs in check.

另一方面，你還有另一套槓桿，那就是拆除塔。他們一直是我們公司 2024 年關注的重點。我們拆除了數千座塔。所以，我們很擅長做這件事。我們可以移動塔。然後，我們與其他營運商建立了合作夥伴關係，共享基礎設施，例如與 Vivo 達成的 RAN 共享協議。因此，我們準備部署大量槓桿來控制這些線路成本。

It's something that is not like super short term. Something that it's the effect sum up in years, because there is some infrastructure required, but we are committed to use all the levers in place to meet the guidance that we share at the beginning of the year.

這並不是什麼超短期的事。這是多年來總結出來的效果，因為需要一些基礎設施，但我們致力於利用現有的所有槓桿來滿足我們在年初分享的指導。

Thank you. And related to our working capital, we are working very hard with this working capital, with several initiatives also that we have. But remember, we have a seasonality. In the first half of the year, the first half of the year, we have a negative working capital. In the second half, we have a positive working capital. We are still in this trend, but we improve a lot.

謝謝。關於我們的營運資金，我們正在非常努力地利用這些營運資金，同時我們也採取了多項措施。但請記住，我們有一個季節性。今年上半年，我們的營運資金為負。下半年，我們的營運資金為正。我們仍然處於這種趨勢，但我們已經進步了很多。

As you can see, the first quarter of this year relates to the first quarter of last year. And we still have some initiatives to put in place and we can discuss it as we did. Once we do this new opportunity, we will discuss to you.

如您所見，今年第一季與去年第一季相關。我們還有一些措施需要實施，我們可以像以前一樣進行討論。一旦我們有了這個新機會，我們將與您討論。

Very clear. Thank you very much.

非常清楚。非常感謝。

Felipe Cheng, Santander.

費利佩·程（Felipe Cheng），桑坦德銀行。

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for taking my questions. My first question is maybe zooming in a little bit on the pricing dynamics, particularly here for front book. Our understanding is that your main competitors have already increased front book prices. So I was just wondering if TIM has any schedule here to eventually also implement price increases to the front book offers. And secondly, if I may also zoom in a little bit on TIM Live, I just wanted to understand a little bit the dynamics this quarter, right?

大家早安，謝謝你們回答我的問題。我的第一個問題可能是稍微放大一下定價動態，特別是對於前書而言。據我們了解，你們的主要競爭對手已經提高了封面價格。所以我只是想知道 TIM 是否有任何計劃最終也對前書報價實施提價。其次，如果我可以稍微放大一下 TIM Live，我只是想了解本季的動態，對嗎？

What were the main drivers or reasons here to see a decline in revenue growth, right? And eventually, if you are studying any potential M&As, be it via selling your TIM Live operation or potentially buying other assets here to fortify here this business. So that's it. Thank you.

導致收入成長下降的主要驅動因素或原因是什麼？最後，如果您正在研究任何潛在的併購，無論是透過出售您的 TIM Live 業務還是可能購買其他資產來鞏固這項業務。就是這樣。謝謝。

So, Felipe, going to the first question, we are fully committed to market rationality. And so we are actually working on our front book price upgrades. So they will come in the coming months. So that's something that we are going to do. For the second question, the main drivers are basically the following. Before going to our performance, I would like to stress again that the market remains highly competitive. And therefore, this pressure, both the ARPU, and we have quite a good ARPU, and churn level.

所以，費利佩，回到第一個問題，我們完全致力於市場理性。因此，我們實際上正在致力於提高前書價格。所以他們會在未來幾個月內到來。這就是我們要做的事情。對於第二個問題，主要的驅動因素基本上有以下幾點。在介紹我們的業績之前，我想再次強調，市場競爭仍然非常激烈。因此，無論是 ARPU 還是客戶流失率，我們都面臨這種壓力，而且我們的 ARPU 和客戶流失率都相當不錯。

When it comes to our performance, the second point of attention is that when we report our numbers, we need to remember that we have copper and fiber in the same numbers, differently from other market players. And copper is a technology that is fading out. So we are losing customers there. And the result that you see on this quarter is basically the effect of a customer base that has been decreasing over the last nine months until January this year. And there's some pressure on the ARPU that has been going down a bit.

談到我們的業績，第二點需要注意的是，當我們報告我們的數字時，我們需要記住，我們的銅和光纖的數字是相同的，這與其他市場參與者不同。而銅是一種正在逐漸消失的技術。因此我們正在失去那裡的客戶。您在本季看到的結果基本上是過去九個月直至今年一月客戶群不斷減少的結果。ARPU 也面臨一些下降的壓力。

On the positive side, you have, on February and March, a customer base that is growing. I can confirm that in April it's also growing. But we are not pushing hard on this, because as we mentioned in many occasions, it's Team Ultra, our broadband service, is diluting on our numbers. And therefore, we are sort of moving sideline on this line of business, while we are assessing all the options on the table on the inorganic front.

從正面的一面來看，二月和三月，你們的客戶群正在不斷成長。我可以確認，四月它也在成長。但我們並沒有大力推進這一進程，因為正如我們多次提到的，Team Ultra（我們的寬頻服務）正在削弱我們的用戶數量。因此，我們正在稍微放棄這條業務線，同時評估無機方面的所有選擇。

Very clear, thank you.

非常清楚，謝謝。

Our next question comes from Phani Kanumuri from HSBC. Please, Mr. Phani, your microphone's open. Mr. Kanumuri, your microphone's open. Seems there's a problem with your audio, Mr. Kanumuri. I'll ask you to rejoin to the conference and join the queue again. So our next question comes from Lucca Brendim from Bank of America. Please, Mr. Brendim, your microphone's open.

下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Phani Kanumuri。請打開麥克風，Phani 先生。卡努穆里先生，您的麥克風已開啟。看來您的音訊有問題，Kanumuri 先生。我會要求您重新加入會議並再次加入隊列。我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Lucca Brendim。布倫迪姆先生，您的麥克風是打開的。

Hi. Good morning, everyone. I have two questions on my end. I wanted to mainly double-click on the OPEX dynamics for the company. First, we saw a reduction in terms of the sales and marketing expenses. It was down 2% year-over-year. You mentioned it was the reduction in fiscal fees, but the sales and marketing is down even more than the reduction in human user base.

你好。大家早安。我有兩個問題。我主要想雙擊公司的 OPEX 動態。首先，我們看到銷售和行銷費用減少。與去年同期相比下降了2%。您提到了財務費用的減少，但銷售和行銷的下降幅度甚至比人類用戶群的減少幅度還要大。

So I wanted to understand a little bit more on those dynamics, if that's something that should continue, if it's something that should go mostly in line with the user base expansion or any other dynamics here. And the second one, regarding network and interconnection, it is going up considerably year-over-year. This is something that was happening in previous quarters already, but how can we think about this going forward? When will this stabilize and how we can think about it for the next years? Thank you.

所以我想更多地了解這些動態，看看這是否應該繼續下去，是否應該與用戶群擴展或此處的任何其他動態基本上保持一致。第二，關於網路和互連，這一數字同比增長顯著。這是前幾季已經發生的事情，但是我們該如何看待未來的發展呢？什麼時候這種情況才會穩定下來以及我們該如何考慮未來幾年的情況？謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Hi, Luca. Related to the second one, the interconnection and the roaming expenses increase in this first quarter relates to the content provided, because we launched a program in November. We stimulated the use of streams, so we have an impact in this quarter. And also the international roaming relaunched. We simulate our -- we put as a matter of fact, we put roaming internationally in several plans, in postpaid, and the cost increase really reflects these customers going abroad.

你好，盧卡。與第二個相關，第一季的互連互通和漫遊費用增加與所提供的內容有關，因為我們在 11 月推出了一項計劃。我們刺激了流的使用，因此我們在本季度產生了影響。而國際漫遊也重新開通了。我們模擬了我們的——事實上，我們在幾個計劃中都加入了國際漫遊，在後付費中，成本的增加確實反映了這些出國的客戶。

So we have this impact in relation to the roaming and the content provided in this first quarter. Related to the sales and market, this was a seasonality. It still decreased a little bit related to the net ads, but it was a little bit. And also we have some only seasonality things, but we expect the sales expenses to increase this year. As we mentioned, we put efficiency in some parts of the cost for generators, a space for increase, something that we know is important for us to increase, like advertising.

因此，我們對第一季提供的漫遊和內容產生了影響。與銷售和市場相關，這是一個季節性現象。與網路廣告相關的部分仍然略有下降，但只是一點點。而且我們也有一些季節性的事情，但我們預計今年的銷售費用會增加。正如我們所提到的，我們在發電機成本的某些部分提高了效率，增加了空間，我們知道增加某些部分對我們來說很重要，例如廣告。

So when you see the full years, you see an increase. In this first quarter, it was just a punctual decrease. I don't know if I addressed your questions.

因此，當你查看全年數據時，你會看到成長。今年第一季度，只是準時下降。我不知道我是否回答了你的問題。

No, very clear. Thank you for the answers.

不，非常清楚。謝謝你的回答。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Our next question comes from Mr. Phani Kanumuri from HSBC. Please, Mr. Kanumuri, your microphone is open. Mr. Phani, seems you still have problems with your microphone. Mr. Phani, can you hear me?

下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Phani Kanumuri 先生。卡努穆里先生，您的麥克風已開啟。Phani 先生，看來您的麥克風仍有問題。帕尼先生，你聽得到我說話嗎？

So I'll ask you to check your audio device and try joining again, Mr. Phani. Our next question comes from Machie Robillard from Barclays. Please, Mr. Robillard, your microphone is open. Please, Mr. Machie, just activate your microphone and ask your question. (Operator Instructions)

因此，我請您檢查您的音訊設備並嘗試再次加入，Phani 先生。下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 Machie Robillard。羅比拉德先生，您的麥克風已開啟。請馬奇先生打開您的麥克風並提出您的問題。（操作員指示）

Our next question comes from Mr. Phani Kanumuri from HSBC. Please, Mr. Phani, if you want to try again, please. You sent your question through written form. Your audio isn't working yet, so I'll read that. Our next question comes from Phani Kanumuri and it is, how do you see the competition involved from new and regional operators like Resonet? Thank you.

下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Phani Kanumuri 先生。帕尼先生，如果您想再試一次，請再試一次。您透過書面形式發送了您的問題。您的音訊尚未播放，因此我將讀取它。我們的下一個問題來自 Phani Kanumuri，您如何看待來自 Resonet 等新興和區域運營商的競爭？謝謝。

So, Phani, clearly the smaller players are gaining some traction in the regions. I would say that so far the impact has been limited on us and it didn't change our competitive dynamics in some response. It didn't trigger specific response to them. We say that they are getting market share, but they're not changing the competitive environment as a whole. We are continuously monitoring if they are making an impact on our customer base. There is some, but it's not material to react at this point in time.

因此，Phani，顯然小型企業正在這些地區獲得一些發展動力。我想說，到目前為止，它對我們的影響是有限的，並且並沒有改變我們的競爭動態。它並沒有引發他們的具體反應。我們說他們正在獲得市場份額，但他們並沒有改變整個競爭環境。我們正在持續監控它們是否對我們的客戶群產生影響。有，但是現在還不至於做出反應。

Thank you. Since there are no further questions, we would like to close the Q&A session and I will pass the word to Mr. Alberto Griselli for his final remarks. Please, Mr. Alberto, you may proceed.

謝謝。由於沒有其他問題，我們想結束問答環節，我將把發言權交給 Alberto Griselli 先生，請他作最後的演講。阿爾貝托先生，請您繼續。

Thank you. So, guys, we set off the year at a robust pace. Despite the external environment, we are successful in implementing our strategy and delivering consistent numbers. Although we expect a challenging year, we have a solid game plan in our hands that we intend to implement with confidence. So, I would like to thank you for participating in our video call today.

謝謝。所以，夥計們，我們以強勁的步伐開始了新的一年。儘管外部環境如此，我們仍成功實施了我們的策略並取得了穩定的績效。儘管我們預計這將是充滿挑戰的一年，但我們手中有一個完善的計劃，我們打算滿懷信心地實施它。所以，我要感謝您今天參加我們的視訊通話。

Special thanks to our team for its commitment and focus and I look forward to meeting some of you or all of you in the coming one-to-one sessions. Thank you and ciao.

特別感謝我們團隊的承諾和專注，我期待在接下來的一對一會議中與你們中的一些人或所有人見面。謝謝你，再見。

This does conclude the fourth quarter of 2024 conference call of TIM S.A. For further information and details of the company, please access our website at tim.com.br/ir. You can disconnect from now on. Thank you once again and have a wonderful day.

TIM S.A. 2024 年第四季電話會議到此結束。如需了解有關該公司的更多資訊和詳細信息，請訪問我們的網站 tim.com.br/ir。從現在起您可以斷開連線。再次感謝您並祝您有美好的一天。