Telefonica SA (TEF) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Thank you for standing by, and welcome to Telefonica's January-June 2025 results conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Torsten Achtmann, Global Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

早安.感謝您的支持，歡迎參加西班牙電信 2025 年 1 月至 6 月業績電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，今天的會議正在被錄音。現在我想將電話轉交給全球投資者關係總監 Torsten Achtmann 先生。先生，請繼續。

Good morning, and welcome to Telefonica's conference call to discuss January to June 2025 results. I'm Torsten Achtmann from Investor Relations. Before proceeding, let me mention that the financial information contained in this document has been prepared under International Financial Reporting Standards as adopted by the European Union. This financial information is unaudited.

早安，歡迎參加西班牙電信的電話會議，討論 2025 年 1 月至 6 月的業績。我是投資者關係部門的 Torsten Achtmann。在繼續之前，我要提一下，本文件中包含的財務資訊是根據歐盟採用的國際財務報告準則編制的。此財務資訊未經審計。

This conference call and webcast, including the Q&A session, may contain forward-looking statements and information relating to the Telefonica Group. These statements may include financial or operating forecasts and estimates or statements regarding plans, objectives and expectations regarding different matters. All forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause the final developments and results to materially differ from those expressed or implied by such statements.

本次電話會議和網路廣播（包括問答環節）可能包含與西班牙電信集團相關的前瞻性陳述和資訊。這些聲明可能包括財務或營運預測和估計或有關不同事項的計劃、目標和期望的聲明。所有前瞻性陳述都涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致最終發展和結果與此類陳述所表達或暗示的內容有重大差異。

We encourage you to review our publicly available disclosure documents filed with the relevant securities market regulators. If you don't have a copy of the relevant press release and the slides, please contact Telefonica's Investor Relations team in Madrid or London. Now let me turn the call over to our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Marc Murtra.

我們鼓勵您查看我們向相關證券市場監管機構提交的公開揭露文件。如果您沒有相關新聞稿和幻燈片的副本，請聯絡馬德里或倫敦的西班牙電信投資者關係團隊。現在，讓我將電話轉給我們的董事長兼執行長馬克·穆特拉先生。

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Telefonica's Second Quarter Results Conference Call. With me today are Emilio Gayo, Laura Abasolo, Markus Haas, Lutz Schuler and Eduardo Navarro. It is a pleasure to have you here as usual. We will first walk you through the slides, and we'll be then happy to take any questions.

大家早安，歡迎參加西班牙電信第二季業績電話會議。今天和我一起的有 Emilio Gayo、Laura Abasolo、Markus Haas、Lutz Schuler 和 Eduardo Navarro。像往常一樣，我很高興您能來這裡。我們將首先帶您瀏覽幻燈片，然後很樂意回答您的任何問題。

Six months ago, I joined to lead Telefonica with a clear goal, unlock the values that exists within the company. We're still early in our plan, but the pieces are starting to come together. Today's results show steady operational execution, continued progress on strategic initiatives and our strategic review, which we're expeditiously advancing on schedule for second half unveiling. Behind the scenes, we're making significant progress, working intensively to get this right.

六個月前，我加入並領導西班牙電信，我的明確目標是釋放公司內部的價值。我們的計劃還處於早期階段，但各個部分已經開始整合在一起。今天的結果表明，營運執行穩健，戰略舉措和戰略評估持續取得進展，我們正按計劃迅速推進，以便在下半年公佈。在幕後，我們正在取得重大進展，並努力做好這件事。

While I can't share the conclusion of our strategic review, I can ensure that every decision we're making follows four fundamental principles. First, customers are at the core of everything we do. Second, technology and operational excellence are fundamental to our business. Third, we apply an industrial rationale to our decision-making. Fourth, our ultimate goal is to create value across all our decision-making.

雖然我無法分享我們的策略評估的結論，但我可以確保我們所做的每個決定都遵循四個基本原則。首先，客戶是我們一切工作的核心。其次，技術和卓越營運對我們的業務至關重要。第三，我們將產業理性運用到決策中。第四，我們的最終目標是透過所有決策創造價值。

All under strict financial discipline, prioritizing Europe and leadership in Brazil. Despite a variable macro environment, we're focused on managing what is within our control. We are confident that the transformation underway of Telefonica will create value for our shareholders and strengthen our competitive position. The strategic choices we are making will contribute to a stronger, more competitive telecom industry in Europe.

所有這些都在嚴格的財務紀律下進行，優先考慮歐洲和巴西的領導地位。儘管宏觀環境多變，我們仍專注於管理我們能控制的事情。我們相信，西班牙電信正在進行的轉型將為我們的股東創造價值並增強我們的競爭地位。我們所做的策略選擇將有助於歐洲電信業更強大、更具競爭力。

On silde 3, let me walk you through our second quarter operational highlights. We're maintaining momentum across customer growth, network expansion and portfolio optimization. Each of these areas is part of our future. Starting with customer focus. This quarter, we added 2 million accesses to reach 349 million accesses. Their experience and satisfaction remain a priority and customer lifetime value is improving, with high levels of NPS and low levels of churn. We continue with portfolio renewals and new [tariffs], like in Spain with Movistar and O2.

在投影片 3 上，讓我向您介紹我們第二季的營運亮點。我們在客戶成長、網路擴展和投資組合優化方面保持著良好的發展勢頭。這些領域都是我們未來的一部分。從客戶關注開始。本季度，我們的訪問量增加了 200 萬次，達到 3.49 億次。他們的體驗和滿意度仍然是首要任務，客戶終身價值正在提高，NPS 水準高，客戶流失率低。我們將繼續更新投資組合併制定新的[關稅]，例如在西班牙與 Movistar 和 O2 合作。

Our network build continues. We accelerated our fiber-to-the-home rollout, with 1.5 million premises added in the quarter, while our 5G coverage expanded by 2-percentage-points. The completion of our copper shutdown in Spain marks an important moment. We're the first major European operator to achieve this milestone, this freeze of resources and focus for other endeavors. We're being disciplined on efficiency and portfolio management.

我們的網路建設仍在繼續。我們加快了光纖到府的部署，本季新增了 150 萬戶，同時我們的 5G 覆蓋率擴大了 2 個百分點。我們在西班牙的銅礦關閉工作完成標誌著一個重要的時刻。我們是第一家實現這一里程碑的歐洲主要營運商，凍結資源並專注於其他事業。我們在效率和投資組合管理方面受到嚴格約束。

We continue to simplify Hispam. This allows us to concentrate resources and management bandwidth where we can build competitive advantages. In these six months, we've reshaped our Latin America footprint. We completed the sales of Argentina and Peru, signed a binding agreement for Colombia and recently announced binding agreements for Uruguay and Ecuador. These transactions represent approximately EUR3 billion in firm volume. Our approach focuses on concentrating resources in select markets where we have competitive advantages. The speed of execution matters, and it allows us to be productive on other fronts.

我們繼續簡化 Hispam。這使我們能夠集中資源和管理頻寬，從而建立競爭優勢。在這六個月裡，我們重塑了我們在拉丁美洲的足跡。我們完成了阿根廷和秘魯的銷售，簽署了與哥倫比亞的具有約束力的協議，並最近宣布了與烏拉圭和厄瓜多爾的具有約束力的協議。這些交易的總交易額約為 30 億歐元。我們的方法著重於將資源集中在我們具有競爭優勢的特定市場。執行速度很重要，它使我們能夠在其他方面富有成效。

Each transaction strengthens our ability to invest more effectively in our core markets and has been structured to minimize execution risk. This approach is part of our capital redeployment. This approach is an example of what we want our industrial rationale to be. We evaluate every market and every investment through the lens of industrial value. We aim for a simplified organization that can move faster and compete more effectively.

每筆交易都增強了我們在核心市場更有效投資的能力，並且旨在最大限度地降低執行風險。這種方法是我們資本重新部署的一部分。這種方法就是我們想要的工業原理的一個例子。我們從工業價值的角度評估每個市場和每項投資。我們的目標是建立一個能夠更快行動、更有效競爭的精簡組織。

Our work in Hispam is not over. Moving to silde 5. Revenue reached off almost EUR9 billion in the quarter, growing 1.5% organically, EBITDA almost EUR3 billion plus 1.2% and EBITDAaL minus CapEx was broadly stable. Free cash flow turned positive to EUR505 million in the second quarter, an improvement of EUR718 million versus Q1. In the first half, free cash flow was EUR291 million. Free cash flow will continue to improve in the back half of the year following our typical seasonality.

我們在 Hispam 的工作尚未結束。移至第 5 畫面。本季營收達到近 90 億歐元，有機成長 1.5%，EBITDA 達到近 30 億歐元，成長 1.2%，EBITDAaL 減去資本支出基本上保持穩定。第二季自由現金流轉為正值 5.05 億歐元，較第一季增加 7.18 億歐元。上半年自由現金流為2.91億歐元。隨著我們典型的季節性變化，自由現金流將在下半年繼續改善。

Foreign exchange headwinds impacted reported figures slightly higher than in Q1. Net financial debt decreased 5.5% year-on-year to EUR27.6 billion as of June. The first six months reflect free cash flow seasonality and the dividend payment in June. Lastly, earnings per share from continued operations amount to EUR0.07 in the second quarter and EUR0.15 in the first half.

外匯不利因素對報告數據的影響略高於第一季。截至6月份，淨金融債務較去年同期下降5.5%至276億歐元。前六個月反映的是自由現金流的季節性和六月的股息支付。最後，第二季持續經營每股收益為 0.07 歐元，上半年持續經營每股收益為 0.15 歐元。

Moving to silde number 6. Spain and Brazil, which together represents 70% of group EBITDA, showed improving trends this quarter. Spain delivered its best Q2 net adds since Q3 '18 while improving EBITDA minus CapEx. Brazil continues its good run with record EBITDA growth since Q4 '23, performing above inflation, although it was negatively impacted by ForEx exchange movements.

移至第 6 張投影片。西班牙和巴西合計佔集團 EBITDA 的 70%，本季呈現改善趨勢。西班牙第二季淨增額為 2018 年第三季以來最佳，同時 EBITDA 減去資本支出也有所改善。巴西繼續保持良好勢頭，自 2023 年第四季以來 EBITDA 成長創下紀錄，表現高於通膨率，儘管受到外匯匯率波動的負面影響。

Germany is facing the effects of the B2B transformation while maintaining solid consumer momentum. VM O2 is investing in its network, while EBITDA decline slowed on efficiencies. Hispam showed resilience and declining EBITDA softened and growing contract net adds.

德國在維持強勁消費動能的同時，也面臨B2B轉型的影響。VM O2 正在投資其網絡，而 EBITDA 下降速度因效率提高而放緩。Hispam 表現出韌性，EBITDA 下降趨勢有所緩和，合約淨額有所增加。

While we transform Telefonica, our operations must continue to deliver and improve. What we're seeing across our footprint is operational stability. This will give us space to execute our strategic initiatives while maintaining financial discipline.

在我們改造西班牙電信的同時，我們的營運必須繼續實現並改善。我們所看到的是整個業務範圍內的營運穩定性。這將為我們提供執行策略舉措的空間，同時保持財務紀律。

Our performance in Q2 is in line with expectations, reflecting different moving parts in the direction of business. Based on our first half performance, we reiterate our full year 2025 guidance across metrics. Revenue and EBITDA continued to grow in line with our targets. EBITDA minus CapEx was stable due to phasing and will improve through the year. CapEx intensity remains within our target of being below 12.5%.

我們第二季的業績符合預期，反映了業務方向上的不同活動部分。根據我們上半年的表現，我們重申 2025 年全年各項指標的指引。營收和 EBITDA 繼續按照我們的目標成長。由於分階段實施，EBITDA 減去資本支出保持穩定，並將在全年改善。資本支出強度仍維持在我們目標的 12.5% 以下。

Free cash flow already improved in Q2, and we expect the momentum to build through the second half, which is our typical seasonal pattern.

自由現金流在第二季度已經有所改善，我們預計這一勢頭將在下半年增強，這是我們典型的季節性模式。

Leverage is currently above guidance target. This temporary uptick is mainly due to free cash flow seasonality in the first half. The mix -- the FX mix impact on the ratio and the dividend payment in June. We're expecting it to improve over the course of the year. These results keep us on track to deliver our guidance.

目前槓桿率高於指導目標。這種暫時的上漲主要是由於上半年自由現金流的季節性。組合－外匯組合對比率和六月股利支付的影響。我們預計今年的情況會有所改善。這些結果使我們能夠按計劃實現我們的指導。

Let me now hand over to Emilio to take you through our operational performance in more detail.

現在，請埃米利奧 (Emilio) 向大家更詳細地介紹我們的營運表現。

Thank you, Marc. Let me start by giving an overview of the main themes in our core operating businesses. First, commercial momentum remains steady. We are showing very strong levels of net adds, low churn and our digital ecosystems continue to gain traction. To highlight, in Spain, we achieved the highest quarterly net addition since the third quarter of 2018 -- increased the number of OTT subscribers by 55%.

謝謝你，馬克。首先，我來概述我們核心營運業務的主要主題。一是商務運作勢頭保持平穩。我們的淨增用戶數非常高，流失率很低，我們的數位生態系統持續獲得發展動力。值得一提的是，在西班牙，我們實現了自 2018 年第三季以來最高的季度淨增值——OTT 用戶數量增加了 55%。

Second, our networks are a key differentiating factor for the quality of our services, product offerings and customer satisfaction. As an example, in Spain and Brazil, we have superior NPS compared to our competitors. Also, the lifetime value of our convergent customer is the best in our domestic market, to is the figure of our closest competitors.

其次，我們的網路是我們服務品質、產品供應和客戶滿意度的關鍵差異化因素。例如，在西班牙和巴西，我們的 NPS 比競爭對手更高。此外，我們的融合客戶的終身價值在國內市場上是最好的，與我們最接近的競爭對手的數字相同。

Third, our performance in key markets and our investment in Hispam show our focus on execution. In Spain and Brazil, we have improved financial trends year-over-year in the second quarter. In Germany, we are focused on mitigating the impact of the migration of 1&1, showing growth in underwriting terms. Finally, in the UK, Virgin Media O2's declining EBITDA improved, reflecting cost efficiencies.

第三，我們在關鍵市場的表現以及對 Hispam 的投資顯示了我們對執行力的關注。在西班牙和巴西，我們第二季的財務趨勢較去年同期有所改善。在德國，我們專注於減輕1&1遷移的影響，承保條款呈現成長。最後，在英國，Virgin Media O2 下滑的 EBITDA 有所改善，反映出成本效率的提升。

On to silde 9. Performance in Spain was excellent, with accelerating growth in customer and financials. Momentum in Q2 was again very strong, achieving the highest net adds in more than six years. The year-on-year growth of our key services accelerated.

翻到第 9 頁。西班牙的業績非常出色，客戶和財務狀況均加速成長。第二季的成長動能再次非常強勁，實現了六年多來最高的淨增幅。重點業務年增速加快。

There were several drivers behind this. We saw a convergent churn reaching 0.8%, its lowest level in more than 11 years. There was an improved portability balance. And finally, we had 89,000 TV net adds, the highest number in more than six years. This has been possible, thanks to Telefonica Espana reinforcing its market position during Q2 with a cemented commercial strategy.

造成這現象的背後有多個因素。我們發現收斂流失率達到了 0.8%，這是 11 年多來的最低水準。便攜性平衡得到了改善。最後，我們的電視淨增量達到 89,000 個，這是六年多來的最高值。這是可能的，因為西班牙電信在第二季度透過鞏固的商業策略鞏固了其市場地位。

We improved [O2] and Movistar value proposition with additional features such as new TV content, increased the fiber speed and more mobile data. On top of this, we launched Movistar por ti, a personalized customer care plan that deeply change the way we serve our subscribers. This approach is a structural change in the market. It will drive a further expansion of our best-in-class NPS in Spain and a sustained reduction in claims, which were already on the decline. This proves our commitment to excel in customer experience in a market where trust and quality are key loyalty factors to drive commercial performance.

我們透過新增電視內容、提高光纖速度和增加行動數據等附加功能改進了 [O2] 和 Movistar 的價值主張。除此之外，我們也推出了個人化客戶關懷計畫 Movistar por ti，它徹底改變了我們為用戶提供服務的方式。這種方法是市場的結構性變化。它將推動我們在西班牙一流的 NPS 進一步擴大，並持續減少已經呈下降趨勢的索賠。這證明了我們致力於在信任和品質是推動商業績效的關鍵忠誠度因素的市場中提供卓越的客戶體驗。

Meanwhile, convergent ARPU remained the best in the market, above EUR90 despite the end of the football season and the higher O2 penetration. A strong financial performance continued with improved growth across metrics.

同時，儘管足球賽季已經結束，且 O2 普及率有所提高，但融合 ARPU 仍保持市場領先，超過 90 歐元。財務表現持續強勁，各項指標均有改善。

Q2 revenue growth increased year-on-year, thanks to sustained growth in services and higher handset sales. Retail revenue increased above inflection driven by customer growth, price upgrades and higher way of services beyond connectivity. We delivered growth in both B2C and B2B.

由於服務業務持續成長和手機銷售增加，第二季營收年增。在客戶成長、價格升級以及超越連接的更高服務方式的推動下，零售收入實現了高於預期的成長。我們在 B2C 和 B2B 領域都實現了成長。

There was double-digit growth in IT sales, which already accounts for over 50% of B2B revenue with a record high IT backlog. As expected, wholesale and other revenue declined due to the renewal of wholesale agreements, which added long-term sustainability. The year-on-year growth in EBITDAaL in Q2 also accelerated. This performance is driven by several factors: revenue growth, stabilization of leases, efficiencies in network transformation and hyper automation.

IT銷售額實現了兩位數成長，已佔B2B營收的50%以上，IT積壓訂單創下歷史新高。正如預期的那樣，批發和其他收入由於批發協議的續約而下降，這增加了長期可持續性。第二季EBITDAaL年成長也加速。這項業績是由多種因素推動的：收入成長、租約穩定、網路轉型效率和超級自動化。

Also, copper networks at -- was completed in May. EBITDAaL minus CapEx increased by over 2% in H1, showing our valid cash conversion in the domestic market. In summary, in Spain, we continue to leverage our solid fundamentals to deliver a stronger performance.

此外，銅網絡已於五月完工。上半年EBITDAaL減去資本支出成長超過2%，顯示我們在國內市場實現了有效的現金轉換。總而言之，在西班牙，我們繼續利用我們穩固的基本面來實現更強勁的業績。

On to the next silde. Telefonica Brasil's performance in Q2 was again marked by solid growth, both in operational and financial, thanks to our sustained leadership in a quality customer base. Upselling initiatives from prepaid to contract plans, our focus on convergence and our commitment to offer the best services led to a 6% increase in our contract accesses, a more than 60% increase in Vivo Total.

繼續下一張投影片。由於我們在優質客戶群中的持續領先地位，Telefonica Brasil 在第二季度的業績再次實現了穩健成長，無論是營運還是財務方面。從預付費到合約計畫的追加銷售措施、我們對融合的關注以及我們致力於提供最佳服務的承諾使我們的合約訪問量增加了 6%，Vivo Total 增加了 60% 以上。

Our ability to retain high-value customer despite increasing prices is reflected in postpaid churn will remain very low in Q2 at 1.1%. The growth in TV accesses and the 42% increase in revenue from cloud services are two examples of the increasing traction of our digital ecosystem in Brazil.

儘管價格上漲，我們仍能保留高價值客戶，這反映在第二季後付費客戶流失率仍將保持在非常低的水平，為 1.1%。電視訪問量的成長和雲端服務收入成長 42% 是巴西數位生態系統吸引力不斷增強的兩個例子。

Revenue increased by 7% and continues to outpace inflation, thanks to two factors. Firstly, a strong growth in postpaid and fiber, showcasing Vivo's successful convergence strategy. Secondly, growth in real terms of our fixed and mobile revenue. Despite this strong commercial momentum, we were still able to maximize efficiencies, which resulted in OpEx growing below inflation. Vivo delivered the highest EBITDA year-on-year growth since Q4 '23 with margin expansion.

由於兩個因素，收入增長了 7%，並且繼續超過通貨膨脹率。首先，後付費和光纖的強勁成長，展現了 Vivo 成功的融合策略。其次，我們的固定和行動收入實際成長。儘管商業勢頭強勁，我們仍能夠最大限度地提高效率，從而使營運支出的成長低於通貨膨脹率。Vivo 實現了自 2023 年第四季以來最高的 EBITDA 同比成長，利潤率也有所擴大。

In Brazil, we have expanded our fiber footprint to 30 million premises passed. To highlight, on the 10th of July, Telefonica acquired the 50% stake of FiBrasil, owned by CDPQ, strengthening Vivo's leadership in fiber. This cost BRL850 million. In addition, we have integrated the IoT and big data businesses into the cloud business. This change will allow greater simplicity and increased efficiencies. In summary, I am happy to report that Brazil is performing excellently. We expect to maintain these results throughout the next quarters.

在巴西，我們已將光纖覆蓋範圍擴大到 3,000 萬戶。值得一提的是，7月10日，西班牙電信收購了CDPQ旗下的FiBrasil 50%的股份，鞏固了Vivo在光纖領域的領導地位。這項花費為8.5億巴西雷亞爾。另外，我們將物聯網、大數據業務融入雲端業務。這項變更將使情況變得更加簡單，效率也更高。總而言之，我很高興地報告，巴西的表現非常出色。我們預計在接下來的幾個季度中將保持這些業績。

Moving to silde 11. Telefonica Deutschland reported financials were impacted by the migration of the 1&1 customer base and the partner business transformation. While we continue looking for additional growth and efficiency measures to mitigate this impact, the underlying performance showed growth across revenue, mobile service revenue and EBITDA.

移至第 11 畫面。Telefonica Deutschland 報告稱，其財務狀況受到 1&1 客戶群遷移和合作夥伴業務轉型的影響。雖然我們繼續尋求額外的成長和效率措施來減輕這種影響，但基本業績顯示收入、行動服務收入和 EBITDA 均有所增長。

Higher promotional activity continued across channel, in what is a more mature market. In mobile, we saw robust commercial additions, with contract net adds increasing double-digit quarter-on-quarter. Additionally, O2 contract remained stable year-on-year at a low of 0.9%, reflecting the strength of the O2 brand.

在更成熟的市場中，各通路的促銷活動持續增加。在行動領域，我們看到了強勁的商業成長，合約淨增量環比成長了兩位數。此外，O2 合約年比保持穩定，處於 0.9% 的低位，體現了 O2 品牌的實力。

In the B2B segment, we signed a major new customer, a German and European market leader in --. Also, Telefonica Deutschland announced a strategic partnership with Siemens. Together, both companies will transform the [water] industry, with the first fully integrated connectivity solution based on 5G network slicing.

在 B2B 領域，我們簽下了一位重要的新客戶，該客戶是德國和歐洲市場的領導者--.此外，西班牙電信德國公司宣布與西門子建立戰略合作夥伴關係。兩家公司將攜手合作，透過基於 5G 網路切片的首個完全整合的連接解決方案來改變[水]產業。

On the financial side, revenue declined year-on-year, mainly due to lower mobile service revenue. EBITDA declined 6% year-on-year, reflecting the impact of the 1&1 customer migration. We expect this impact to continue as more customers migrate off our network.

財務方面，收入年減，主要由於行動服務收入下降。EBITDA 年減 6%，反映了 1&1 客戶遷移的影響。我們預計，隨著越來越多的客戶離開我們的網絡，這種影響將會持續下去。

In summary, while financials reflect temporary pressures, Telefonica Deutschland continues to execute on its strategy to position the company for growth once the impact of the 1&1 migration is over. We aim to achieve this growth, investing in network leadership, applying efficiency measures and driving sustainable commercial performance through focused growth initiatives in all the segments. All of this will help drive profitable growth.

總而言之，儘管財務狀況反映了暫時的壓力，但一旦 1&1 遷移的影響結束，Telefonica Deutschland 將繼續執行其策略，為公司的發展做好準備。我們的目標是實現這一成長，投資網路領導力，應用效率措施，並透過所有領域的重點成長計畫推動永續的商業績效。所有這些都將有助於推動獲利成長。

Moving to silde 12. The UK mobile market remained competitive in Q2, and Virgin Media O2 stays focused on customer loyalty and protecting value. O2 contract churn improved to 1%, driven by an enhanced customer experience and ongoing investment in network quality.

移至第 12 頁。英國行動市場在第二季仍保持競爭激烈，Virgin Media O2 持續專注於顧客忠誠度和保護價值。由於客戶體驗的提升和對網路品質的持續投資，O2 合約流失率改善至 1%。

In fixed, we are stepping up our retention efforts as we adapt to the evolving market conditions, including the implementation of [one touch] switch. At the same time, we expanded our fixed network footprint to over 18.5 million premises passed, with more than 7 million on fiber. Consumer fixed ARPU also grew year-on-year for the fifth consecutive quarter.

在固定方面，我們正在加強保留力度，以適應不斷變化的市場條件，包括實施[一鍵式]切換。同時，我們將固定網路覆蓋範圍擴大到超過 1,850 萬戶，其中超過 700 萬戶使用光纖網路。消費者固定 ARPU 也連續第五個季度年增。

During the quarter, we received regulatory approval to create a new B2B company, with the transaction expected to close on a --. We also announced an agreement to acquire 78.8 megahertz of the spectrum from Vodafone UK for GBP343 million. This acquisition will be partially funded by the last year's minority stake sale in [Cornerstone]. This transaction will bring our total mobile spectrum share to around 30%, strengthening our network capacity.

本季度，我們獲得了監管部門的批准，可以創建一家新的 B2B 公司，預計交易將於--.我們還宣布了一項協議，以 3.43 億英鎊的價格從英國沃達豐收購 78.8 兆赫的頻譜。此次收購的部分資金將來自去年出售的少數股權[基石]。此次交易將使我們的行動頻譜總份額達到30%左右，從而增強我們的網路容量。

It will also support greater balance across UK operators, enhancing competition, improving coverage and elevating the customer experience. Spectral transfer is expected to begin in the second half of the year, subject to Ofcom's approval. Financially, revenue declined by 5.7% year-on-year, mainly due to three factors: the phasing of price increase under the new -- approach, lower handset volumes and reduced nexfibre build activity.

它還將支援英國營運商之間的更大平衡，增強競爭力，擴大覆蓋範圍並提升客戶體驗。頻譜轉移預計將於今年下半年開始，但需獲得 Ofcom 的批准。財務方面，收入年減 5.7%，主要由於三個因素：新方法下價格上漲的階段性變化、手機銷量下降以及 nexfibre 建設活動減少。

However, EBITDA declined due to the revolution in the fiber construction. Excluding this, EBITDA growth accelerated in Q2, reflecting the cost of optimization efforts following the 2024 investment in IT and digital transformation. In summary, the UK business is progressing with a steady network expansion, early signs of financial stabilization and continued focus on customer value.

然而，由於光纖建設的變革，EBITDA 有所下降。除此之外，EBITDA 成長在第二季度加速，反映了 2024 年對 IT 和數位轉型投資後優化工作的成本。綜上所述，英國業務正在穩步發展，網路擴張，財務狀況出現穩定跡象，並持續關注客戶價值。

Moving on to silde 13 and the operating performance in Hispam, which now includes four countries. For the second consecutive quarter, we posted positive contract net adds in the region. These positive results are driven by the improved network quality in Colombia due to the launch of Movistar and Tigo's single mobile network, our great performance in Mexico and a better regulatory environment in Chile.

接下來是幻燈片 13 和 Hispam 的營運表現，目前 Hispam 已涵蓋四個國家。連續第二個季度，我們在該地區實現了合約淨增。這些積極成果得益於哥倫比亞網路品質的提高（由於 Movistar 和 Tigo 的單一行動網路的推出）、我們在墨西哥的出色表現以及智利更好的監管環境。

On the fixed business, almost 100% of our broadband customers already have fiber. Revenue decreased year-on-year mainly due to sales of copper in Chile in the first half of 2024. EBITDA decreased 2.8% year-on-year but improved sequentially due to Colombia.

在固定業務方面，我們幾乎 100% 的寬頻客戶已經擁有光纖。營收年減主要由於2024年上半年智利銅的銷售。EBITDA 年比下降 2.8%，但由於哥倫比亞的影響，環比有所改善。

On to silde 14 to review our transversal units. Firstly regarding Telefonica Tech. Revenue growth rate improved quarter-on-quarter to over 12% year-on-year in Q2, with bookings growing in line with revenues. By sector, the performance is driven by the solid demand in financial services, health care and public administration. And we have also reinforced our AI and data capabilities to expand our offer.

到第 14 頁來查看我們的橫向單元。首先關於Telefonica Tech。第二季營收成長率較上季提高，較去年同期成長超過 12%，預訂量與營收同步成長。從業界來看，金融服務、醫療保健和公共管理領域的強勁需求推動了業績表現。我們也加強了人工智慧和數據能力，以擴大我們的服務範圍。

Secondly, on to Telefonica Infra. Our fiber costs have already reached 29 million premises passed, representing 35% of group deployment. Our submarine cable business deliver sustained profitability with margins of around 50%. Telxius has signed a partnership with Google to provide the necessary infrastructure to land the new subsea cable in Spain. In summary, consistent execution continue across our markets and businesses.

其次，談談Telefonica Infra。我們的光纖成本已覆蓋2,900萬戶，佔集團部署的35%。我們的海底電纜業務持續獲利，利潤率約50%。Telxius 已與Google簽署合作協議，為新的海底電纜登陸西班牙提供必要的基礎設施。總而言之，我們的市場和業務將繼續保持一致的執行力。

I will now hand over to Laura for the main financial topics.

現在我將把主要的財務話題交給勞拉。

Thank you, Emilio. Free cash flow has improved by EUR718 million to EUR505 million in the second quarter and EUR291 million in the first six months of the year. Free cash flow follows its usual seasonality in the first half, and this has been reflected in the evolution of the net financial debt and the leverage ratio, which has increased to 2.78 times. However, as the year progresses, free cash flow will gain traction heading to our targets.

謝謝你，埃米利奧。第二季自由現金流增加了 7.18 億歐元，達到 5.05 億歐元，今年上半年自由現金流增加了 2.91 億歐元。上半年自由現金流呈現正常的季節性變化，反映在淨金融債務的演變和槓桿率上升至2.78倍。然而，隨著時間的推移，自由現金流將逐漸接近我們的目標。

Furthermore, our net debt will be reduced to EUR26.0 billion after the sales of Telefonica Ecuador, Uruguay and Colombia and acquisition of the 50% of FiBrasil. We maintain ample liquidity, which covers debt maturities over the next three years. The average cost of debt has been reduced year-on-year from 3.64% in June '24 to 3.30% in June '25. We continue with our present financial policy and free cash flow management, which are key priorities for us.

此外，在出售西班牙電信厄瓜多、烏拉圭和哥倫比亞業務以及收購 FiBrasil 50% 的股份後，我們的淨債務將減少至 260 億歐元。我們保持充足的流動性，可以涵蓋未來三年的債務到期。平均債務成本較去年同期下降，從24年6月的3.64%降至25年6月的3.30%。我們將繼續執行現行的財務政策和自由現金流管理，這是我們的首要任務。

Turning to page 16. This quarter, we have made significant strides in our sustainability efforts. On the environmental front, we have published an updated climate action plan, marking a clear pathway towards our ambition to be net zero by 2040. Furthermore, Telefonica has been included as a supplier engagement leader by CDP for the sixth year running, in recognition of our efforts to reduce value chain emissions.

翻到第 16 頁。本季度，我們在永續發展工作方面取得了重大進展。在環境方面，我們發布了最新的氣候行動計劃，為我們實現2040年淨零排放的目標指明了清晰的方向。此外，西班牙電信連續第六年被 CDP 評為供應商參與領導者，以表彰我們為減少價值鏈排放所做的努力。

On the social side, our customer-centric approach has led us to launch a new personalized service model in Spain. We also remain committed to diversity and inclusion initiatives, and this quarter, we achieved 34% female executives. Looking at governance, we have been recognized for our transparency, receiving awards for both fiscal and sustainability reporting. Finally, I'm pleased to share that Time Magazine considers Telefonica as the second most sustainable company in the world.

在社會方面，我們以客戶為中心的理念促使我們在西班牙推出了新的個人化服務模式。我們也將繼續致力於多元化和包容性舉措，本季度，我們的女性主管比例達到 34%。從治理角度來看，我們的透明度得到了認可，並獲得了財政和永續發展報告獎。最後，我很高興地告訴大家，《時代》雜誌將西班牙電信評為全球第二大永續發展公司。

I will now hand back to Marc, who will wrap up.

現在我將把發言權交還給馬克，他將結束發言。

Thank you, Laura. To summarize, our second quarter offers data to show how we're managing this transition period. We're maintaining operational performance, while we prepare for the changes ahead. We are making progress on portfolio focus with fine Hispam transactions. Our networks continue to evolve, including completing the corporate shutdown in Spain.

謝謝你，勞拉。總而言之，我們第二季提供的數據顯示我們如何管理這段過渡時期。我們正在維持營運績效，同時為未來的變化做好準備。我們在優質 Hispam 交易的投資組合重點方面正在取得進展。我們的網路不斷發展，包括完成西班牙的公司關閉。

We're on track to meet our financial guidance. Our strategic review continues on schedule. We're taking a hard look on how to position Telefonica in a changing industry. I look forward to sharing our conclusions in the second half of the year.

我們正在按計劃實現財務指導。我們的策略審查仍在按計劃進行。我們正在認真思考如何在不斷變化的行業中定位西班牙電信。我期待在今年下半年分享我們的結論。

Thank you very much for your attention, and we are now ready to take your questions.

非常感謝您的關注，現在我們準備好回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Andrew Lee, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示）高盛的 Andrew Lee。

Good morning everyone. I had two questions, one on Spain and one on the UK Just noting, I mean, I guess, pretty bullish comments on the strong KPIs in Spain, but revenue and EBITDA growth still remains pretty low versus peers across Europe. So the question is, do you expect growth to accelerate meaningfully organically to more encouraging levels? Or does Spain still need fixing? And what are the potential opportunities to fix that, if so?

大家早安。我有兩個問題，一個關於西班牙，一個關於英國。只是指出，我的意思是，我猜，對西班牙強勁的 KPI 的評論相當樂觀，但與歐洲同行相比，收入和 EBITDA 增長仍然相當低。所以問題是，您是否預計成長將有機加速至更令人鼓舞的水平？或者西班牙仍需要修復？如果可以的話，有哪些潛在的機會可以解決這個問題？

Secondly, on the UK, the KPIs weakened again, but the cyber market looks right for consolidation. I know your NetCo creation process keeps stalling. But the question is, is VM O2 in a position financially to be able to pursue what it wants to do on fiber consolidation? Or are there still inorganic things that need to be done to put yourself in a position to succeed there? Thank you.

其次，英國的KPI再次走弱，但網路市場看起來適合整合。我知道您的 NetCo 創建過程一直停滯不前。但問題是，VM O2 是否有財力來實現其在光纖整合方面的目標？或者是否仍需要做一些不必要的事情才能讓自己在那裡成功？謝謝。

Thank you, Andrew, regarding the question about Spain, I will say that we aim to deliver revenue year-on-year growth, higher than 2024 and fostered by the handset sales and retail. We see B2C growth ahead, driven by a better customer experience, best-in-class churn, January '25 price increase and solid mix of convergent IPIs supported customer liking value, new subscriber on O2 and value to consumer Movistar plus and a solid new service, consistent increasing the traction of our portfolio.

謝謝安德魯，關於西班牙的問題，我想說的是，我們的目標是實現收入同比增長，高於 2024 年，並受到手機銷售和零售的推動。我們看到了 B2C 未來的成長，這得益於更好的客戶體驗、一流的客戶流失率、25 年 1 月的價格上漲以及融合 IPI 的穩固組合支援的客戶喜好價值、O2 上的新用戶和消費者 Movistar plus 的價值以及穩固的新服務，這些都將持續增加我們產品組合的吸引力。

In B2B, we have a strong B2B momentum. As communication IT coverage, we have the pleasure with the best commercial offer. It is the growth engine, while communications are protected by portfolio revamps. In terms of -- we expect wholesale and other to decline year-on-year. Nevertheless, we have a more sustainable wholesale businesses delivered from the agreement signed in 2024.

在B2B領域，我們擁有強勁的B2B勢頭。作為通訊 IT 覆蓋範圍，我們很高興能為您提供最佳的商業報價。它是成長引擎，而通訊則受到投資組合改革的保護。就方面而言——我們預計批發和其他業務將同比下降。儘管如此，根據 2024 年簽署的協議，我們的批發業務將更加永續。

And in terms of EBITDA and the part of the cost and cost, we expect to continue capturing savings from efficiencies such as network transformation, simplification of processes and systems and optimize commercial cost by automation and higher use of online channels. And as a result, we expect 2025 EBITDA and EBITDAaL to show higher year-on-year growth than in 2024.

而在EBITDA和成本部分方面，我們預計將繼續透過網路轉型、流程和系統簡化等效率實現節約，並透過自動化和更高程度地利用線上管道來優化商業成本。因此，我們預計 2025 年 EBITDA 和 EBITDAaL 將比 2024 年實現更高的年成長。

Regarding the VMO2 question, Andrew. So there are different opportunities in the UK market, some of which you have mentioned. And I think we have different ways of capturing the opportunities we're interested in. But I cannot comment on any specifics due to us wanting to keep confidentiality with regards to what we want to do on the M&A side and to maintain flexibility with regard to how we pursue those opportunities. So I'm sorry for the ambiguous answer.

關於 VMO2 問題，安德魯。因此，英國市場存在著不同的機會，其中一些您已經提到了。我認為我們有不同的方法來抓住我們感興趣的機會。但我無法對任何具體細節發表評論，因為我們希望對我們在併購方面想要做的事情保密，並在如何尋求這些機會方面保持靈活性。所以我對於這個模稜兩可的答案感到抱歉。

No, thank you, thanks anyway. And just on the Spain, just -- [2025] having higher growth than 2024 in revenue and EBITDA. I guess that's the minimum that you'd want to see from that business. Would you expect further acceleration organically into 2026 and beyond? Or does something need to change in the market to us to achieve that?

不，謝謝，無論如何還是謝謝你。就西班牙而言，2025 年的營收和 EBITDA 成長率將高於 2024 年。我想這就是你希望從該企業看到的最低限度的東西。您是否預期 2026 年及以後會進一步加速發展？或者我們需要對市場做出一些改變才能實現這一目標？

Andrew, we have commented that we have the strategic review during this part of the year. And we will talk about the objectives and the targets of 2026 at the end of this strategic review.

安德魯，我們曾表示，我們在今年的這個時候進行了策略審查。我們將在本次策略評估結束時討論2026年的目標和指標。

Understood, thank you.

明白了，謝謝。

Joshua Mills, BNP Exane.

約書亞·米爾斯（Joshua Mills），法國國家銀行審查部門。

Hi guys, thank you for the questions. I have two as well, please. Marc, I understand we won't get much more detail on this until we provide the strategic review. So I'd love to hear some high-level thoughts about the tech and cyber security opportunities for yourself, also telcos more generally in Europe, it's now in you've talked about, but it's also one investors have been skeptical around the ability for telcos to create value in historically.

大家好，感謝你們的提問。我也有兩個，謝謝。馬克，我知道，在我們提供策略評估之前，我們無法獲得更多有關此事的細節。因此，我很想聽聽您對技術和網路安全機會的一些高層看法，以及您對歐洲電信公司更普遍的看法，現在您已經談到了這一點，但從歷史上看，投資者也一直對電信公司創造價值的能力持懷疑態度。

So the question is, when you talk about adjacent areas, industrial rationale of your strategic review, what makes tech investments different now to in the past and more specifically, what strength do you think Telefonica brings to the table versus some of your telco periods? That would be the first question.

所以問題是，當您談論相鄰領域時，您的策略評估的行業原理是什麼，現在的技術投資與過去有何不同？更具體地說，您認為西班牙電信與您時期的一些電信公司相比有哪些優勢？這是第一個問題。

And then the second question, just on the UK If I come back to the results we saw this morning is slightly weaker revenue than expected EBITDA still growing in absolute terms. It looks in order to meet the guidance for revenue growth for the year, you'll have to accelerate in the second half of 2025. What will drive that acceleration in revenue growth on a guidance basis of VMO2. And perhaps in that context, if you could give a bit of color around competition in the fixed line market as well. That would be great. Thank you.

然後是第二個問題，僅關於英國，如果我回到今天早上看到的結果，收入略低於預期，但 EBITDA 絕對值仍在增長。看來，為了達到今年的營收成長預期，你必須在 2025 年下半年加速發展。在 VMO2 的指導基礎上，什麼將推動營收成長加速？也許在這種背景下，您也可以稍微介紹一下固定線路市場的競爭情況。那太好了。謝謝。

Okay. Thanks. So with regards to the first question, yes, markets have been skeptical, and I would say with good reason. In the past, with regards to what telecom operators can do in the tech and cyber security part of the world. I would say specifically in the product area, not so much in the integration area.

好的。謝謝。因此，關於第一個問題，是的，市場一直持懷疑態度，我想說這是有充分理由的。過去，關於電信業者在技術和網路安全領域可以做些什麼。我想具體說的是產品領域，而不是整合領域。

What I do think or what we do think and what we're analyzing are two large changes that have happened, occurred in the last 6 to 12 months. The first is the vigor notion of strategic autonomy. Europe, under different nation states have stated, we need technological strategic autonomy. And that, in our mind, means having cybersecurity technology in Europe, which does not exist.

我確實認為或我們確實認為並且我們正在分析的是過去 6 到 12 個月內發生的兩個重大變化。第一是策略自主的活力理念。歐洲，不同的民族國家都表示，我們需要技術戰略自主。在我們看來，這意味著歐洲擁有網路安全技術，但事實上並不存在。

And the second is the announced, I would qualify as huge defense investments. and a lot of the announced huge defense investments will be in creating technology. Cybersecurity, of course, is a twin brother of cyber defense.

第二是宣布的巨額國防投資。在宣布的巨額國防投資中，很大一部分將用於技術創造。當然，網路安全是網路防禦的孿生兄弟。

So with regards to the first point, we expect conditions regarding the cybersecurity market to change driven by European political will. And if that happens, we would react accordingly. And the second, we expect large investments in the area of cyber defense, which we think those that operate in cybersecurity can capture.

因此，關於第一點，我們預期網路安全市場狀況將受到歐洲政治意願的推動而改變。如果發生這種情況，我們會做出相應的反應。第二，我們預期網路防禦領域將有大量投資，我們認為從事網路安全業務的公司可以獲得這些投資。

What strengths do companies like Telefonica bring to the cybersecurity area? We have, and other large telecom operators have a large, long and deep experience in integrating and managing cybersecurity products. So we are near the cybersecurity space. We are part of the cybersecurity space, but it is true, we haven't created cybersecurity products.

像西班牙電信這樣的公司為網路安全領域帶來了哪些優勢？我們和其他大型電信業者在整合和管理網路安全產品方面擁有豐富、長期和深厚的經驗。因此我們接近網路安全領域。我們是網路安全領域的一部分，但事實上，我們還沒有創造出網路安全產品。

Okay, regarding the revenues in the UK, during the conference call, we explain some factors that explain the evolution of the revenue, and I, I'm going to hand over to Lus to give you more color about that.

好的，關於英國的收入，在電話會議中，我們解釋了一些導致收入變化的因素，我將把時間交給 Lus 來為您詳細介紹。

Thank you, Emilio. Good morning. Yes, so the fixed market in the UK is impacted by one touch switch and also by high promotions from [altnet] and also some direct competitors. So as a result of that, we have the second quarter in a row negative net adds. So that is correct.

謝謝你，埃米利奧。早安.是的，英國的固定市場受到一鍵式交換器以及 [altnet] 和一些直接競爭對手的大力推廣的影響。因此，我們連續第二季出現淨增額為負的情況。這是正確的。

What we are doing is right, we have a very sophisticated machine to manage retention in the right way. And now we turn this machine to prevention. And we have made good progress in the second half year.

我們所做的是正確的，我們擁有非常先進的機器來以正確的方式管理保留。現在我們將這台機器用於預防。下半年我們取得了良好的進展。

Now to your question, how do we come to service revenue growth during the course of '25? So obviously, we have guided revenue, excluding hardware and construction revenue, which has been flat in the first half year. Within that, consumer has been growing. So consumer service revenue has been growing and B2B revenue has been shrinking a bit. We have a pretty encouraging funnel on the B2B side.

現在回答你的問題，我們如何在 25 年期間實現服務收入成長？顯然，我們預計上半年除硬體和建築收入外的收入將持平。其中，消費者一直在成長。因此，消費者服務收入一直在成長，而 B2B 收入則有所萎縮。我們在 B2B 方面有一個非常令人鼓舞的管道。

So we think we will get some bigger deals closed in second half of this year, and therefore, we stick to our guidance. Thank you.

因此，我們認為我們將在今年下半年完成一些更大的交易，因此，我們堅持我們的指導。謝謝。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Akhil Dattani, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的阿希爾·達塔尼 (Akhil Dattani)。

Hi, morning. Thanks for taking the questions. I've got two, please, as well. The first is just on the strategic review that you're running. And I guess I wanted to stand away from the industrial side where I appreciate it's going to be hard for you to comment specifically. But I wanted to ask a more philosophical question around the balance sheet. There's been a perennial debate in the market around leverage across the sector and whether that constrains the ability to invest freely or to take proactive measures on acquisitions to drive strategic growth.

嗨，早安。感謝您回答這些問題。我也有兩個。第一個是關於您正在進行的策略評估。我想遠離工業方面，因為我知道您很難對此做出具體評論。但我想就資產負債表提出一個更哲學的問題。市場上一直存在著關於整個行業槓桿率的爭論，以及這是否會限制自由投資的能力或採取主動收購措施來推動策略成長的能力。

And I just wondered now you're six months into the process of reviewing what you want to do, can you just talk us through how you think about the balance sheet? And I guess the context being Telefonica is probably at the upper end of the peer group on leverage? Do you think that is any sort of constraint? Do you think it is important to create more financial flexibility? Or conversely, do you think given cash flow is improving isn't a relevant factor.

我只是想知道，現在您已經花了六個月的時間來審查您想要做的事情，您能否向我們講講您對資產負債表的看法？我猜想西班牙電信的槓桿率可能處於同業的較高水準？您認為這是一種限制嗎？您認為創造更多的財務彈性重要嗎？或者相反，您認為現金流的改善不是相關因素。

So I'd love to understand that a little bit better. And then the second one is actually just in reference to a comment you made in the press on the industrial plan. I guess I just wanted to understand we should interpret it specifically. It was in Spanish, so maybe there's a translation-related issue here. But effectively, what the article seem to quote you are saying, is that you're looking to place a lot of bets to make sure that a few succeed.

所以我希望能夠更好地理解這一點。第二個問題實際上只是針對您在媒體上對工業計劃所發表的評論。我想我只是想了解我們應該如何具體地解釋它。它是西班牙語的，所以這裡可能有與翻譯相關的問題。但實際上，文章似乎引用了你的說法，即你希望下很多賭注以確保少數賭注能夠成功。

So I guess what I was really trying to understand is what is that in relation to? Were you talking about industrial journeys across different markets? Is that specifically in relation to M&A.? Can you maybe just clarify what you meant by want to take a multitude of bets to make sure a few of these deliver. Thanks a lot.

所以我想我真正想了解的是這跟什麼有關？您談論的是跨越不同市場的工業歷程嗎？這與併購具體相關嗎？您能否解釋一下，您所說的想要進行多次投注以確保其中一些能夠實現是什麼意思？多謝。

Sure, Akhil. And actually, the philosophical questions are the ones I really enjoy. So regarding your first and philosophical questions, and I'd break it down to different points. The first one, we will not compromise our grade or net debt grade. We have, of course, net financial debt, we have hybrid, and we have other liabilities. So we're not going to move with regards to the ratios we have, and we have promised we will keep.

當然，阿希爾。事實上，我真正喜歡的是哲學問題。因此，關於您的第一個哲學問題，我會將其分解為不同的觀點。首先，我們不會降低我們的評級或淨債務評級。當然，我們有淨金融債務、混合債務和其他負債。因此，我們不會改變現有的比例，而且我們承諾會保持這一比例。

With regards to operations, of course, operations also include acquiring EBITDA. So any acquisition can include the acquisition of EBITDA. If the target one is acquiring, has a larger leverage than our leverage, that is a leverage problem, if it has a lower leverage, that is not necessarily a leverage problem. And it is our technical belief that if we have good targets, we can -- the market offers good options to finance those.

至於運營，當然運營也包括取得EBITDA。因此任何收購都可以包括 EBITDA 的收購。如果被收購的目標公司的槓桿比我們的槓桿大，那就是槓桿問題，如果被收購的目標公司的槓桿比我們的槓桿小，不一定是槓桿問題。從技術角度來說，我們相信，如果我們有好的目標，市場就能提供好的選擇來為這些目標融資。

So with regards to your final subquestion, the way we see it and our leverage and being on the upper end of the leverage is a constraint. It is relevant, but we don't think it will be strategically limitating to us. We can find solutions for good operations. That is always under the initial constraint that we will always be investment grade. So that would be my answer to your first question, Akhil.

因此，關於您的最後一個子問題，我們的看法以及我們的槓桿作用以及槓桿作用的上限是一個限制因素。這很有意義，但我們認為這不會對我們造成戰略限制。我們可以找到良好營運的解決方案。這始終是在我們始終保持投資等級的初始約束之下。這是我對你第一個問題的回答，阿希爾。

With the second one, the answer that you read that was originally in Spanish, it has to do with assuming more calculated risks. So at the end of the day, risk goes with return. And the reason we want to acquire a larger scale is because there are larger economies of scale. We think that is good for Europe. And we think as part of the idea, please let us gain scale, let us consolidate the European market, and then we will be able to invest in technology.

對於第二個問題，您讀到的答案原文是西班牙語，它與承擔更多經過計算的風險有關。所以歸根究底，風險與回報相伴而生。我們之所以想要擴大規模，是因為規模經濟效應更大。我們認為這對歐洲有利。我們認為，作為這個想法的一部分，請讓我們擴大規模，讓我們鞏固歐洲市場，然後我們將能夠投資技術。

And investments in technology have high risk. So I don't -- I'm not discussing launching huge operations with high risk because that is not the nature of what we do. But being having the balance sheet and the capability eventually of launching small operations that have -- that might have a higher risk profile. And then detecting those that have or create traction and being able to double down.

而且技術投資具有很高的風險。所以我不會——我不會討論開展高風險的大規模行動，因為這不是我們工作的本質。但是，擁有資產負債表和最終開展小型業務的能力——這可能會具有更高的風險狀況。然後檢測那些具有或創造牽引力並能夠加倍下注的。

So what I was saying is risk goes with return and we need scale or we want larger scale to be able to take a more calculated risks. Any high-risk operation that we ever take would be of limited scope initially. If that works, we would scale it up appropriately. So I was not referring to -- and would we imagine like a large or significant M&A operations. It had to do with technology or more limited operations.

所以我想說的是，風險與回報相伴而生，我們需要規模，或者說我們希望有更大的規模，以便能夠承擔更有計劃的風險。我們進行的任何高風險行動最初都是範圍有限的。如果有效的話，我們會適當地擴大規模。所以我指的不是——我們能想像到像大型或重大的併購業務嗎？這與技術或更有限的操作有關。

That's really clear. Thanks very much.

這確實很清楚。非常感謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Nick Lyall, Berenberg.

尼克·萊爾，貝倫貝格。

Hi there, morning. Could I ask two as well, please? Just firstly, on Germany, is it possible for you to give us the underlying ARPU of the remaining 17.6 million contract subs on the Telefonica brand, please?

大家好，早安。我可以也問兩個嗎？首先，關於德國，您能否向我們提供 Telefonica 品牌剩餘 1,760 萬合約用戶的潛在 ARPU 數據？

And then secondly, on Spain, you mentioned copper savings as you shut down the network in your first in Europe. Could you give us more details on what you found so far in terms of savings and maybe a few -- a bit of help on what future savings you might be able to take as you shut down copper? Thanks very much.

其次，關於西班牙，你提到了銅線節省，因為你們在歐洲首次關閉了網路。您能否向我們詳細介紹一下您迄今為止在節省方面的發現，並告訴我們一些關於關閉銅線後未來可能節省多少錢的信息？非常感謝。

Thank you, Nick. Regarding the Telefonica Deutschland question, I'm going to hand over to Markus to give you more explanation about that.

謝謝你，尼克。關於西班牙電信德國分公司的問題，我將交給 Markus 來為您提供更多解釋。

Thank you. I think in the reported average postpaid ARPU, you clearly see the wholesale customers included. So with the phaseout in the migration, there's a technical effect. So the ARPU will finally grow to the ARPU by year-end. And then you will see next year, the full own postpaid ARPU with the reduction of the wholesale customers.

謝謝。我認為在報告的平均後付費 ARPU 中，你可以清楚地看到其中包括批發客戶。因此，隨著遷移的逐步停止，會產生技術效果。所以ARPU最終會成長到年底的ARPU。然後你會看到明年，隨著批發客戶的減少，整個後付費 ARPU 將會下降。

It's clearly, we always said is significantly higher than the reported number that you see, while we don't have a segment reporting for the different customer type, you will clearly see a constant improvement. But what we can say is we have a broadly stable ARPU with our own customers as reported and presented earlier. The small reduction is mainly driven by family cards and second SIM cards, but the overall ARPU trend in the O2 postpaid base, and that's clearly the major -- or the lion's share in the 17 million that you mentioned is broadly it.

顯然，我們總是說這比您看到的報告數字要高得多，雖然我們沒有針對不同客戶類型的細分報告，但您會清楚地看到持續的改善。但我們可以說的是，正如先前報告和介紹的那樣，我們自己的客戶的 ARPU 總體上是穩定的。小幅下降主要是由於家庭卡和第二張 SIM 卡造成的，但 O2 後付費用戶群中的整體 ARPU 趨勢，以及這顯然是主要的——或者說，您提到的 1700 萬中的最大份額，大致就是這樣。

Nick, regarding the copper question, just to remember that Telefonica is the European leader in copper switch off, having shut down the entire copper network. Today, we are a fiber company with not even a single copper subscriber. We have consolidated total efficiency from copper switch off with a total benefit of more than 1-percentage-point in 2024 EBITDA margin. These efficiencies are derived from lower net in consumption, lower --, optimize cost in call centers, lower maintenance costs and -- enabled by technological upgrade.

尼克，關於銅線問題，要記住的是，西班牙電信公司是歐洲銅線關閉領域的領導者，已經關閉了整個銅線網路。如今，我們是一家光纖公司，卻連一個銅纜用戶都沒有。我們已將銅線關閉帶來的整體效率合併起來，2024 年 EBITDA 利潤率的總收益將超過 1 個百分點。這些效率源自於更低的淨消耗、更低的呼叫中心優化成本、更低的維護成本以及技術升級。

The end of the fiber rollout and copper switch off does not mean the end of the network transformation. Telefonica has to continue this ventilating copper facilities. In fact, we aim to reaching a run rate with an additional 0.5 point in margin when transformation is over, that will be around three more years.

光纖鋪設和銅線關閉的結束並不意味著網路轉型的結束。西班牙電信必須繼續建造這個通風銅設施。事實上，我們的目標是在轉型結束後，實現利潤率額外增加 0.5 個百分點的運行率，這大約還需要三年時間。

Okay. Great. So in summary, is it 1-percentage-point margin improvement this year? EBITDA minus CapEx and then 0.5% over the next three years? Is that roughly what you're guiding to it, that proper move?

好的。偉大的。總而言之，今年的利潤率會提高 1 個百分點嗎？EBITDA 減去資本支出，然後未來三年為 0.5%？這大概就是您所引導的正確做法吧？

No, no. It's 1-percentage-point in 2024 and in the next coming years, after all the transformation that it will take three years, it will be an additional 0.5 point in margin.

不，不。2024 年為 1 個百分點，而在接下來的幾年裡，經過三年的轉型，利潤率將再增加 0.5 個百分點。

Okay, that's clear. Thanks very much.

好的，很清楚。非常感謝。

David Wright, Bank of America.

美國銀行的戴維·賴特。

Hello guys, thank you for taking my question. I just noticed in the release and the Telefonica Deutschland section, you talk about, and I quote mounting consumer reluctance to spend. And I guess, independently, we have seen, perhaps with the -- profit warning recently, consumer desire to maybe raise usage. So how should we think about that? Is the consumer looking to grow data but really doesn't want to spend anymore? Are you finding major opposition?

大家好，感謝您回答我的問題。我剛剛注意到，在新聞稿和西班牙電信德國公司部分，您談到了消費者消費意願的不斷增強，我引用了這個觀點。我想，就我們最近的獲利預警來看，我們已經看到消費者可能希望提高使用量。那我們該如何看待這個問題呢？消費者是否希望增加數據但實際上不想再花錢了？您是否遇到了重大反對？

And do you think that is a barrier to wider price increases in the near term in Germany that some of your competitors may be considering? Thank you.

您是否認為這會成為近期德國更大範圍漲價的障礙，而您的一些競爭對手可能正在考慮這樣做？謝謝。

David. Thank you very much for the question. I'm going to hand over to Markus to give you more explanation with more detail.

大衛。非常感謝您的提問。我將把時間交給 Markus，讓他為你們提供更詳細的解釋。

Thank you for your question, David. I think we see twofold. If you look at the prepaid and the postpaid segment, what we clearly have seen is that in the prepaid segment, we have been able to increase our promotions and tariffs by 10%. And with the launch of unlimited on demand in the last quarter was a very successful proposition, so we see the willingness to pay more for more data if the proposition is right.

謝謝你的提問，大衛。我認為我們看到了雙重情況。如果你看一下預付費和後付費部分，我們可以清楚地看到，在預付費部分，我們已經能夠將促銷和資費提高 10%。上個季度推出的無限量按需服務是一個非常成功的提議，因此，如果提議正確，我們看到人們願意為更多數據支付更多費用。

Clearly, we need to model smart models and also the smart tariff plans that we saw, but especially the unlimited of demand at Telefonica introduced to the German market last year is clearly a way to monetize data by not giving the full unlimited. The full unlimited plans are currently sit at EUR60. Clearly, there are promotional activities on them, but every unlimited customer on our network grades is ARPU accretive. So whenever customers choose unlimited, we increased the average ARPU of the customer base.

顯然，我們需要模擬智慧模型以及我們所看到的智慧資費計劃，但特別是去年西班牙電信公司在德國市場推出的無限需求，顯然是一種透過不提供完全無限量來將數據貨幣化的方式。目前，完整的無限流量套餐價格為 60 歐元。顯然，它們上面有促銷活動，但我們網路等級上的每個無限客戶都會增加 ARPU。因此，每當客戶選擇無限流量時，我們都會提高客戶群的平均 ARPU。

So clearly, there is still demand for 20, 50 and 100 gigabyte tariff plans, and that's still the majority of the inflow that you have seen of the 180,000 postpaid net adds that we delivered in the last quarter. So I think it's a mix. There's a higher willingness to pay for unlimited. I think that's the first conclusion that we take, but we -- clearly, we need to play it smart. And clearly, we have different underlying economics, if you play like an [MVNO] with unlimited, of course. So from that perspective, there is value up, and we are currently realizing that.

因此，顯然，20、50 和 100 千兆位元組資費計劃仍有需求，而且這仍然是我們在上個季度提供的 180,000 個後付費淨增用戶流入的大部分。所以我認為這是一個混合體。人們更願意為無限流量付費。我認為這是我們得出的第一個結論，但顯然，我們需要明智地行事。顯然，如果你像無限量的 [MVNO] 那樣玩的話，我們有不同的底層經濟因素。因此從這個角度來看，它具有價值，我們目前正在實現這一點。

James Ratzer, New Street Research.

詹姆斯·拉澤（James Ratzer），新街研究公司（New Street Research）。

Good morning. Thank you for taking the questions. Two, please. So the first one goes back a little bit to what I think Josh was asking earlier on cybersecurity, but would just love to dig in a bit more on what your current investments are in areas around sovereign cloud and what's included in your CapEx at the moment for kind of beta spending or gigafactory spending.

早安.感謝您回答這些問題。請給我兩份。因此，第一個問題稍微回到了我認為 Josh 之前詢問的有關網路安全的問題，但我只是想深入了解一下您目前在主權雲端領域的投資情況，以及您目前的資本支出中包含哪些內容，例如測試支出或超級工廠支出。

I mean I noticed with interest Deutsche Telekom recently signed a large deal with NVIDIA to expand some of their investments in Germany. And I'm really kind of wondering whether you take your current levels and see the need to increase spending in that area in Spain?

我的意思是，我饒有興趣地註意到德國電信最近與 NVIDIA 簽署了一項大協議，以擴大其在德國的部分投資。我真的很想知道，您是否認為根據目前的水平，有必要增加西班牙在該領域的支出？

And then the second question was I just love to get a process update on the [Fiberpass] stake sale. Is that currently on pause at the moment as part of the strategic review like the UK NetCo sale? Or if not, and that process is ongoing at the moment, could you give us an update on the expected timing for that transaction to close? Thank you.

第二個問題是，我很想了解[Fiberpass]股份出售的進展。作為英國 NetCo 出售等策略評估的一部分，目前是否暫停此計劃？或者如果不是，而該過程目前正在進行中，您能否向我們介紹該交易預計完成的時間？謝謝。

So I'll have a first quick answer. And then we will -- and then I'll pass to Emilio. So with regards to the future regarding data centers or opportunities like that, that is part, of course, of the strategic review. You mentioned the NetCo, the UK NetCo is not paused, and it's not part of the strategic review. That is a decision we made and announced, and that has to do with our industrial strategy and industrial way of working. So Emilio?

因此我將首先快速回答。然後我們會——然後我會把麥克風交給艾米利歐。因此，關於資料中心的未來或類似的機遇，這當然是策略評估的一部分。您提到了 NetCo，英國 NetCo 並未暫停，而且它也不是策略審查的一部分。這是我們做出並宣布的決定，這與我們的產業策略和產業工作方式有關。那麼埃米利奧？

Yes. Regarding the Fiberpass, I would say that this process is ongoing and is not based in the strategic review. We have an agreement with Vodafone. We are working on that in the same plan that we have before. Regarding the first question, talking about cybersecurity or cloud, we are not -- we don't see the need to invest CapEx -- have an important amount of -- because this kind of business are not considered -- it's not so important to invest in CapEx.

是的。關於 Fiberpass，我想說這個過程是持續進行的，並且不是基於戰略審查。我們與沃達豐達成了協議。我們正在按照先前的計劃進行這項工作。關於第一個問題，談到網路安全或雲端運算，我們認為沒有必要投資資本支出，因為這種業務沒有被考慮，所以投資資本支出就沒那麼重要。

Regarding gigafactories, can I say at this moment, Europe plans and initiatives to invest in establishing up to [5 AI gigafactories]. There was a call for expression of interest. We have a response, this expression of interest because we are interested in hosting one gigafactory in Spain. But at this moment, it's too early to give you more details because this is a process that will really start to be in our consideration during the last part of the year where the government or the UA finally launched the process to -- with -- or whatever process they consider.

關於超級工廠，我可以說，目前歐洲計畫和措施投資建立[5 家 AI 超級工廠]。有人呼籲表達興趣。我們得到了回應，表達了這種興趣，因為我們有興趣在西班牙建立一座超級工廠。但目前，提供更多細節還為時過早，因為這個過程要到今年下半年才會真正開始進入我們的考慮範圍，屆時政府或 UA 最終將啟動這個過程，或者他們所考慮的任何過程。

We have time for one last question, please.

我們還有時間回答最後一個問題。

Keval Khiroya, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的 Keval Khiroya。

Thank you. I've got two questions, please. So firstly, Telefonica Deutschland had the 2025 outlook for broadly stable EBITDA, but understand we've seen the EBITDA falling 4% in the first half. Is the business tracking in line with your expectations? And when do you think EBITDA in Germany will stabilize and then grow?

謝謝。我有兩個問題，請問一下。首先，Telefonica Deutschland 預計 2025 年 EBITDA 將保持大致穩定，但我們知道上半年 EBITDA 下降了 4%。業務追蹤是否符合你的預期？您認為德國的 EBITDA 何時會穩定下來並實現成長？

And then secondly, just a question on infrastructure. Telefonica historically had different structures on infrastructure from fully owned JVs to having minorities. Do you feel it's more important to fully owned infrastructure than before? I noticed that you bought out your JV partner in -- Brazil. Thank you.

其次，我只想問一個關於基礎設施的問題。西班牙電信歷來在基礎建設方面擁有不同的結構，從全資合資企業到少數股權企業。您是否認為完全擁有基礎設施比以前更重要？我注意到您買下了巴西合資夥伴的股份。謝謝。

Yes. Regarding the first question, I'm going to hand over to Markus.

是的。關於第一個問題，我將交給 Markus。

Thank you, Emilio. I think it's first to note on the German EBITDA, that the migration of the national roaming and MBA MVNO revenues is a two years journey. I think the combination of growth and efficiency measures started already bearing fruit in early 2024. So it supported last year's EBITDA growth for Germany alone by 4.3% full year year-over-year, while 1&1 customer migration was suspended, as we all know, by last year by several issues on technical reasons on the partner side, we faced in 2025 tough comps on EBITDA with the predelivery already in 2024.

謝謝你，埃米利奧。我認為首先要注意德國 EBITDA，全國漫遊和 MBA MVNO 收入的遷移需要兩年的時間。我認為成長與效率措施的結合在 2024 年初就已開始取得成果。因此，它支持了去年僅德國全年的 EBITDA 同比增長 4.3%，而眾所周知，去年由於合作夥伴方面的一些技術原因，1&1 客戶遷移被暫停，我們在 2025 年面臨著 EBITDA 的艱難競爭，而 2024 年就已經進行了預交付。

Coming back to your question, broadly stable is a range that goes from the minus to the positive, so it's around the 0 point. So overall, we feel comfortable what we have said in the past. And I said, is a two years journey, and we deliver the efficiencies, not on a linear basis as outlined. So overall, we are on track with the accelerated growth and efficiency plan.

回到你的問題，大致穩定是一個從負到正的範圍，所以它在 0 點附近。所以總的來說，我們對過去所說的話感到滿意。我說過，這是一個為期兩年的旅程，我們實現的效率並非如概述的那樣線性增長。總體而言，我們正在按照加速成長和效率計劃進行。

Regarding the second question, I would say our position is and will be, as a result of the strategic review that we are an industrial operator, and therefore, core infrastructures of our business are better run near our business and in a simplified way so that we can coordinate the different areas of our business, including monitoring demand and making offers, servicing that demand with infrastructures and of course, with a convergent offer.

關於第二個問題，我想說，我們的立場是，並且將是，作為戰略評估的結果，我們是一家工業運營商，因此，我們業務的核心基礎設施最好在我們的業務附近以簡化的方式運行，以便我們能夠協調我們業務的不同領域，包括監控需求和提出報價，通過基礎設施滿足需求，當然還有融合報價。

I wouldn't comment too much with regard to that is more or less than what we used to say. That is the way we operate, and that is the way we see -- we operate in a more efficient way from a cost point of view and from an offering in services for our clients to keep ARPU high and churn low.

對於這比我們過去所說的多還是少，我不會發表太多評論。這就是我們的營運方式，也是我們的看法——從成本角度和為客戶提供的服務角度來看，我們以更有效率的方式運營，以維持較高的 ARPU 值和較低的客戶流失率。

Clear, thank you.

清楚了，謝謝。

At this time, no further questions will be taken.

目前，我們不再回答其他問題。

Okay. Well, thank you, everybody. I'm sorry we didn't -- I'm sorry for the answers we didn't ask -- answer, and I think there was maybe a -- one of you tried to reask a question, and by the time we realized, we jumped on to the next question. So we're happy to do that, to answer that offline. I hope this was useful time of your hour, and we're looking forward to having a deeper conversation once the Board approves the new strategy and we make it public. Thanks very much. Have a good day.

好的。好的，謝謝大家。很抱歉，我們沒有——很抱歉，我們沒有回答這些問題，我想也許你們中的一個人試圖重新提出一個問題，而當我們意識到這一點時，我們又跳到了下一個問題。所以我們很樂意這樣做，以線下方式回答這個問題。我希望這對您來說是一段有用的時光，我們期待在董事會批准新策略並將其公開後進行更深入的對話。非常感謝。祝你有美好的一天。

Telefonica's January-June 2025 Results Conference Call is over. You may now disconnect your line. Thank you.

西班牙電信 2025 年 1 月至 6 月業績電話會議已結束。現在您可以斷開線路了。謝謝。