Telefonica SA (TEF) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Thank you for standing by, and welcome to Telefónica's January, December 2024 results conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Adrián Zunzunegui, Global Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

早安.感謝您的支持，歡迎參加西班牙電信公司 2024 年 1 月、12 月業績電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，今天的會議正在錄音。現在，我想將電話轉交給全球投資人關係總監 Adriá n Zunzunegui 先生。先生，請繼續。

Good morning, and welcome to Telefónica's conference call to discuss January, December 2024 results. I'm Adrián Zunzunegui from Investor Relations.

早安，歡迎參加 Telefónica 的電話會議，討論 2024 年 1 月和 12 月的表現。我是投資人關係部的 Adriá n Zunzunegui。

Before proceeding, let me mention that the financial information contained in this document has been prepared under international financial reporting standards as adopted by the European Union. This financial information is unaudited. This conference call and webcast including the Q&A session, may contain forward-looking statements and information relating to the Telefónica Group. These statements may include financial or operating forecasts and estimates or statements regarding plans, objectives and expectations regarding different matters.

在繼續之前，我想提一下，本文件中包含的財務資訊是根據歐盟採用的國際財務報告準則編制的。此財務資訊未經審計。本次電話會議和網路廣播（包括問答環節）可能包含與西班牙電信集團相關的前瞻性陳述和資訊。這些聲明可能包括財務或經營預測和估計或有關不同事項的計劃、目標和期望的聲明。

All forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause the final developments and results to materially differ from those expressed or implied by such statements. We encourage you to review our publicly available disclosure documents filed with the relevant securities market regulators. If you don't have a copy of the relevant press release and the slides, please contact Telefónica's Investor Relations team in Madrid or London.

所有前瞻性陳述都涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致最終的發展和結果與此類陳述表達或暗示的結果有重大差異。我們鼓勵您查看我們向相關證券市場監管機構提交的公開揭露文件。如果您沒有相關新聞稿和幻燈片的副本，請聯絡馬德里或倫敦的西班牙電信公司投資者關係團隊。

Now let me turn the call over to our Chairman and CEO, Mr. Marc Murtra.

現在，讓我將電話轉給我們的董事長兼執行長馬克·穆特拉先生。

Good morning, everyone. Let me start by saying that I am honored to address you in my first earnings call as Chairman and CEO of Telefónica. I have prioritized the conduction of a tour across our operations. I see both significant strengths and opportunities to enhance our execution and our long-term shareholder value creation.

大家早安。首先，我要說的是，我很榮幸能夠以西班牙電信公司董事長兼執行長的身份在第一次財報電話會議上向大家致辭。我已將巡視我們的整個運作過程列為優先事項。我看到了提升我們的執行力和長期股東價值所創造的重大優勢和機會。

Our position in high-quality core markets reflects both our heritage and potential. The market leadership we've achieved in Spain and Brazil, combined with our strategic positions in Germany and the UK gives us a relevant reach and scale. While we have built strong operational capabilities, I see opportunities to deploy these more effectively across our footprint. I will share with you more when ready, but my vision is to accelerate the performance of this great company, raise the level of ambition, simplified where prudent and ultimately drive the corporate valuation higher over time.

我們在高品質核心市場中的地位反映了我們的傳統和潛力。我們在西班牙和巴西所取得的市場領導地位，加上我們在德國和英國的戰略地位，使我們具有相應的影響力和規模。雖然我們已經建立了強大的營運能力，但我看到了在我們的整個業務範圍內更有效地部署這些能力的機會。我會在準備好時與大家分享更多信息，但我的願景是加速這家偉大公司的業績，提高雄心水平，在審慎的情況下簡化，並最終隨著時間的推移提高公司估值。

This year performance demonstrates the fundamental strength of our business model. Despite a dynamic macro environment, we've delivered growth across our key metrics, including free cash flow. Today's rapidly evolving landscape, we must adapt rapidly to capture our full potential.

今年的業績證明了我們商業模式的根本實力。儘管宏觀環境瞬息萬變，我們仍實現了自由現金流等關鍵指標的成長。當今情勢瞬息萬變，我們必須迅速適應，才能充分發揮我們的潛力。

Our strength, as I see it, rests on three pillars: first, scale customer relevance with increasing customer satisfaction and growing NPS over a total customer base of 390 million. Second, we are a world-class infrastructure company, leaders in fiber and in copper shutdown in Europe. And third, our strong and proven know-how with senior and experienced management in place.

在我看來，我們的優勢在於三大支柱：首先，在總客戶群 3.9 億中，透過提高客戶滿意度和成長 NPS 來擴大客戶相關性。其次，我們是一家世界一流的基礎設施公司，在歐洲光纖和銅線關閉領域處於領先地位。第三，我們擁有強大且經過驗證的專業技術以及資深且經驗豐富的管理人員。

Looking ahead, I believe it is time to elevate our ambition and boost our strategic plan in a new time in Europe. I see opportunities to accelerate execution across our business from our core connectivity service to our growing B2B technology solution under an industrial rationale. We should further intensify our focus on core markets and activities through and portfolio optimization, whilst maintaining efficient capital allocation.

展望未來，我相信現在是時候提升我們的雄心壯志並推動我們在歐洲新時期的戰略計劃了。我看到了在行業理念下加速我們業務執行的機會，從我們的核心連接服務到我們不斷發展的 B2B 技術解決方案。我們應該透過投資組合優化進一步加強對核心市場和活動的關注，同時保持高效率的資本配置。

The European telecom industry should move in more euro-centric decisions. The pace of technological disruption and investment requires demand that we move faster and more decisively with consolidation driving future growth. Telefónica is uniquely positioned to lead in this evolving landscape, given our operational excellence and technical capabilities within what I believe to be a more favorable regulatory framework.

歐洲電信業應該做出更多以歐洲為中心的決策。科技顛覆和投資的步伐要求我們採取更快、更果斷的行動，透過整合推動未來成長。在我看來，鑑於我們在更有利的監管框架內的卓越營運和技術能力，西班牙電信公司在這個不斷變化的環境中具有獨特的領先優勢。

My immediate focus is on increasing our operational velocity, evaluating all options for shareholder value creation and enhancing speed to market whilst building on Telefónica's strong foundations. We have significant opportunities to drive business performance and accelerate value creation through financial discipline and with free cash flow as the key metric to focus.

我目前的重點是提高我們的營運速度，評估所有為股東創造價值的選項，並在鞏固西班牙電信公司的堅實基礎的同時加快產品上市速度。我們有重大機會透過財務紀律並將自由現金流作為關注的關鍵指標來推動業務績效並加速價值創造。

You will learn more later this year as I plan to share findings from the strategic reflection and review that we will conduct for the -- during the next few months before the year-end. I am committed to making Telefónica the best that it can be, controlling what is within our control and more. In the meantime, once we have the right assets and the right knowledge, we will continue executing but with greater speed and decisiveness to deliver.

今年晚些時候，你們將了解更多信息，我計劃與大家分享我們將在年底前幾個月進行的戰略反思和審查的結果。我致力於讓西班牙電信公司做到最好，控制我們能控制的事情，甚至更多。同時，一旦我們擁有了正確的資產和正確的知識，我們將繼續執行，但將以更快的速度和更果斷的態度來實現。

I will now hand over to Angel, who will guide you through Q4 and the financial year 2024 results as well as the performance of our core operating businesses.

現在我將交給 Angel，他將引導您了解第四季度和 2024 財年的業績以及我們核心營運業務的表現。

Thank you, Marc. Let me start by highlighting that we have fully delivered within our 2024 guidance ranges across all metrics. Looking at free cash flow, we generated EUR2.6 billion, representing 14% growth year-on-year, above our more than 10% guide. The momentum in our core markets has been a key driver of these results. We are seeing healthy commercial trends across our core markets, with improved customer metrics that validate our strategy. As an example, Spain had full year-on-year growth in all accesses for the first time since 2018 and the best conversion churn since 2013.

謝謝你，馬克。首先我要強調的是，我們在所有指標上都完全實現了 2024 年的指導範圍。從自由現金流來看，我們創造了 26 億歐元，年成長 14%，高於我們 10% 以上的預期。我們核心市場的強勁發展動能是推動這些業績的關鍵因素。我們看到核心市場的商業趨勢十分健康，客戶指標的改善也驗證了我們的策略。以西班牙為例，自 2018 年以來，西班牙首次實現了所有訪問量的同比增長，並創下了 2013 年以來的最佳轉換率。

Our network deployment continues at pace, but importantly, with industry-leading capital efficiency. While extending our fiber footprint and 5G coverage, we've maintained a CapEx to revenue ratio of just 12.9%. The successful decommissioning of legacy networks is further enhancing our operational efficiency. These operational achievements have translated into a stronger financial position with leverage now reduced to below 2.6 times while maintaining strong dividend coverage. So strong momentum going into 2025.

我們的網路部署持續快速推進，但重要的是，我們的資本效率達到業界領先。在擴大光纖覆蓋範圍和 5G 覆蓋範圍的同時，我們的資本支出與收入比率僅為 12.9%。成功退役遺留網路進一步提高了我們的營運效率。這些營運成就轉化為更強勁的財務狀況，槓桿率現已降至 2.6 倍以下，同時維持強勁的股息覆蓋率。2025 年的勢頭十分強勁。

Let me now highlight our key achievements for 2024, which demonstrates substantial progress across three core areas of transformation. Our customer-focused strategy delivered strong results for the full year. We grew our base by 2 million customers while further improving our Net Promoter Score. Throughout 2024, our initiatives have significantly enhanced our commercial performance, driving sales efficiency, increasing customer lifetime value and delivering meaningful churn reduction.

現在，讓我重點介紹一下我們 2024 年的主要成就，這表明我們在三個核心轉型領域取得了實質進展。我們以客戶為中心的策略在全年取得了強勁的業績。我們的客戶群增加了 200 萬，同時我們的淨推薦值也進一步提高。在整個 2024 年，我們的措施顯著提高了我們的商業績效、提高了銷售效率、增加了客戶終身價值並顯著減少了客戶流失。

In network deployment, we've delivered significant expansion of our next-generation infrastructure. We passed an additional 10 million premises with fiber during the year, while extending our 5G coverage by 10 percentage points across core markets. A particular highlight has been our pioneering work in network autonomy where we are seeing tangible benefits from AI implementation.

在網路部署方面，我們對下一代基礎設施進行了重大擴展。今年，我們的光纖覆蓋範圍又增加了 1,000 萬戶，同時將核心市場的 5G 覆蓋率提高了 10 個百分點。特別值得一提的是我們在網路自主方面的開創性工作，我們從人工智慧的實施中看到了切實的好處。

2024 was also a year of important operational milestones. Our team successfully progressed with our copper shutdown program in Spain, marking a significant step in our network modernization. At the group level, we continue achieving efficiency gains, particularly in areas like technical customer care. Whilst in Hispam, we advanced with our portfolio optimization efforts with the filing of an ordinary insolvency procedure in Peru and the sale of our operations in Argentina, following a competitive process that allowed us to optimize proceeds whilst avoiding execution risk.

2024年也是重要營運里程碑的一年。我們的團隊成功推進了西班牙的銅線關閉計劃，標誌著我們的網路現代化邁出了重要一步。在集團層面，我們持續提高效率，特別是在技術客戶服務等領域。在 Hispam 期間，我們透過在秘魯提交普通破產程序並出售我們在阿根廷的業務，推進了我們的投資組合優化工作，遵循了競爭程序，使我們能夠優化收益並避免執行風險。

Our performance remained strong, as shown on slide 6. Revenue was up 5.4% in the quarter, reflecting solid commercial momentum across our footprint. Service revenue maintained its trajectory with B2B continuing to be a growth driver and B2C showing resilience across our core markets.

我們的表現依然強勁，如幻燈片 6 所示。本季營收成長 5.4%，反映出我們業務範圍內商業發展的強勁勢頭。服務收入保持了良好的發展軌跡，B2B 繼續成為成長動力，B2C 在我們的核心市場中表現出韌性。

On profitability, we delivered reliable operating leverage while maintaining EBITDA flat year-on-year in Q4. While CapEx increased 5.7% in Q4 due to Argentina and FX and some phasing effects, we achieved our full year target with CapEx to sales below 14%. Most importantly, our free cash flow generation showed strong progression throughout the year, demonstrating the effectiveness of our operating model and natural hedging policy. This performance translated into reduced leverage and improved dividend coverage.

在獲利能力方面，我們實現了可靠的經營槓桿，同時第四季 EBITDA 與去年同期持平。儘管由於阿根廷和外匯以及一些階段性影響，第四季度的資本支出增加了 5.7%，但我們實現了全年目標，資本支出與銷售額比低於 14%。最重要的是，我們的自由現金流產生在全年表現出強勁的成長，證明了我們的營運模式和自然對沖政策的有效性。這一表現意味著槓桿率的降低和股息覆蓋率的提高。

I will now guide you through our core operating businesses. Moving to slide 7. Telefónica Spain delivered an excellent performance in 2024, with a leading growth profile based on strong commercial and operational momentum.

現在我將向您介紹我們的核心營運業務。移至幻燈片 7。西班牙電信公司在 2024 年取得了出色的成績，憑藉強勁的商業和營運勢頭，實現了領先的成長勢頭。

For the first time since 2018, all main accesses grew year-on-year simultaneously. Through a relentless focus on superior assets, customer care quality offering and a smart commercial approach, our strategy proved successful amidst changing market dynamics. Moreover, an industry-leading ARPU and the lowest churn in more than a decade, resulting to the best combination of KPIs in B2C.

2018年以來首次各主要通道較去年同期同步成長。透過堅持不懈地專注於優質資產、優質客戶服務和明智的商業方法，我們的策略在不斷變化的市場動態中獲得了成功。此外，ARPU值產業領先，客戶流失率維持十多年來最低，是B2C領域最佳的KPI組合。

Together, with our premium IT proposal for B2B and extended wholesale agreements, it makes us the most sustainable player in the Spanish telco space. Commercial success fueled revenue growth of 1.3% year-on-year in Q4. And as we anticipated, full year EBITDA was back to year-on-year growth, driven by improving retail revenue growth and further efficiencies in personnel, network transformation and digitalization. Meanwhile, EBITDA tower leases increased year-on-year for a second consecutive quarter.

加上我們針對 B2B 的優質 IT 提案和擴展的批發協議，這使我們成為西班牙電信領域最具永續性的參與者。商業上的成功推動第四季營收年增1.3%。正如我們預期的那樣，全年 EBITDA 恢復同比增長，這得益於零售收入成長以及人員、網路轉型和數位化效率的進一步提高。同時，EBITDA 塔租賃連續第二季年增。

Noteworthy, this operational improvement was achieved whilst bringing down CapEx, leading to stable EBITDA minus CapEx compared to the previous year. Telefónica Spain faces 2025 from a stronger and better position to continue capturing growth and further adding operational leverage.

值得注意的是，這項營運改善是在降低資本支出的同時實現的，與前一年相比，EBITDA 減去資本支出後保持穩定。西班牙電信公司面向 2025 年，將以更強大、更優越的地位繼續保持成長勢頭，並進一步提高營運槓桿。

On slide 8, Telefónica Brasil continues to build a sustainable future by enhancing the quality of its service mix, thanks to steady growth in contract and fiber accesses. During the quarter, revenue increased by close to 8% in local currency, with the fixed line business reaching a new record high and sustained strong performance in mobile. Despite this strong commercial momentum and the higher contribution from digital services, the EBITDA minus CapEx margin grew year-on-year by as much as 0.5 percentage points to 18% in the last quarter of 2024.

在第 8 張幻燈片中，由於合約和光纖接入的穩定增長，Telefónica Brasil 繼續透過提高其服務組合的品質來建立永續發展的未來。本季度，營收以當地貨幣計算成長近8%，其中固網業務創下歷史新高，行動業務持續保持強勁表現。儘管商業動能強勁且數位服務貢獻較大，但 2024 年最後一個季度的 EBITDA 減去資本支出利潤率同比增長了 0.5 個百分點，達到 18%。

Finally, the agreement for the migration from concession to authorization was completed, a move that will transform our business and operations. Our German operations on slide 9, maintained their good performance in Q4 with sustained O2 brand appeal and enhance B2B momentum, driving strong commercial traction.

最後，從特許經營到授權的轉變協議已經完成，這項舉措將改變我們的業務和營運。我們的德國業務（排名第 9 位）在第四季度保持了良好的表現，持續保持了 O2 品牌吸引力並增強了 B2B 勢頭，推動了強勁的商業吸引力。

As for our platforms, the O2 network was recognized for its quality once again, receiving a very good rating from Connect Magazine for the fifth consecutive year with the strongest improvement among German MNOs. 5G population coverage expanded further now exceeding 97%. While O2 contract churn remained low and stable at 1.1%, reflecting strong customer loyalty.

在我們的平台方面，O2 網路再次因其品質而獲得認可，連續第五年獲得《Connect Magazine》的非常好的評價，並且在德國 MNO 中進步最為顯著。5G人口覆蓋率進一步擴大，目前已超過97%。而O2的合約流失率仍維持在較低水平，穩定在1.1%，反映出強大的客戶忠誠度。

Financially, revenue declined by 3.7% year-on-year in Q4, impacted by MTR headwinds, tough handset comps and the shift in the one-on-one business model. However, disciplined execution and cost efficiencies supported EBITDA growth of 5.3% year-on-year with a sequential improvement in operating leverage and further EBITDA margin expansion.

財務方面，受到港鐵不利因素、手機市場競爭激烈以及一對一業務模式轉變的影響，第四季營收年減 3.7%。然而，嚴格的執行和成本效率支撐 EBITDA 年成長 5.3%，經營槓桿連續改善，EBITDA 利潤率進一步擴大。

Moving to slide 10, where we review our UK operations at the VMO2. In Q4, we maintained our strategic focus on expanding our fixed network and enhancing customer value. Our fixed business continued to grow, supported by higher ARPU, which increased by 2% year-on-year. Fiber rollout progressed at a record pace, with 1.3 million premises passed in 2024, expanding our total fiber reach to 6.4 million homes.

前往投影片 10，我們在此回顧了 VMO2 的英國營運情況。第四季度，我們持續將策略重點放在擴大固定網路和提升客戶價值。我們的固定業務持續成長，得益於更高的ARPU，年增2%。光纖鋪設以創紀錄的速度進展，到 2024 年將覆蓋 130 萬戶家庭，將光纖總覆蓋範圍擴大到 640 萬戶家庭。

On the mobile side, contract churn remained stable at 1.1% as initiatives such as inclusive Euro roaming and the O2 priority loyalty program continued to strengthen customer retention. Additionally, 5G population coverage reached 75%, an improvement of as much 24 percentage points year-on-year.

在行動方面，由於包容性歐元漫遊和O2優先忠誠度計畫等措施持續加強客戶保留率，合約流失率維持穩定在1.1％。5G人口覆蓋率達75%，較去年同期提升24個百分點。

From a financial perspective, revenue was flat year-on-year in Q4, showing improved momentum, while EBITDA declined mainly reflecting ongoing investment in IT and digital efficiency programs, B2B fixed headwinds and tough prior year comparisons. Despite this, we achieved GBP540 million in annualized synergies, delivering on our five-year target nearly 18 months ahead of schedule.

從財務角度來看，第四季度營收同比持平，顯示出改善的勢頭，而 EBITDA 下降主要反映了對 IT 和數位效率計劃的持續投資、B2B 固定逆風以及艱難的去年同期比較。儘管如此，我們仍然實現了5.4億英鎊的年度協同效應，提前近18個月實現了我們的五年目標。

Slide 11 reviews the performance of Telefónica Tech, a driving engine for the superior growth of Telefónica's B2B revenue. Telefónica Tech has completed 2024 as a fully integrated tech player, consistently outperforming its market and revenue exceeding the EUR2 billion mark.

幻燈片 11 回顧了 Telefónica Tech 的業績，它是 Telefónica 集團 B2B 收入強勁增長的驅動引擎。Telefónica Tech 已於 2024 年成為一家完全整合的科技公司，其表現持續超越市場，營收超過 20 億歐元。

Revenue growth accelerated in the last quarter to 10% year-on-year in 2024, supported by a highly skilled workforce and widely recognized capabilities for delivering advanced IT services for B2B digitalization. Main driver behind this performance is the operating leverage of the new organizational model, which expanded capabilities across the footprint and allowed us to improve the revenue mix.

在高技能勞動力和為 B2B 數位化提供先進 IT 服務方面獲得廣泛認可的能力的支持下，公司上一季的收入增長加速，到 2024 年將同比增長 10%。這項業績背後的主要驅動力是新組織模式的經營槓桿，它擴大了整個業務範圍的能力，並使我們能夠改善收入結構。

The larger size and value of the new projects are increasing the weight of professional managed services, which translate into a more recurrent and more profitable revenue flow. Furthermore, the strong sales pipeline with both commercial funnel and bookings growing faster than revenues, further increased revenue visibility. Thus, the business sustainability increases.

新專案規模和價值的擴大使得專業管理服務的重要性日益增加，從而帶來了更經常性和更有利可圖的收入流。此外，強勁的銷售管道，商業通路和預訂量的成長速度都快於收入，進一步提高了收入的可見度。因此，業務可持續性增強。

Moving to slide 12. Telefónica inferenced driving growth and accelerating digital inclusion through the deployment of state-of-the-art next-generation infrastructure. We passed 25 million fiber premises by year-end in our fiber costs, progressing towards our target of 30 million by 2026, approximately 30% of Telefónica Group's future fiber deployment.

移至投影片 12。西班牙電信公司認為，透過部署最先進的下一代基礎設施，可以推動成長並加速數位包容。截至年底，我們的光纖成本已超過 2,500 萬光纖接入，並正向 2026 年 3,000 萬光纖接入的目標邁進，約佔西班牙電信集團未來光纖部署的 30%。

Telxius, our best-in-class international connectivity infrastructure is expanding its international network by adding another new generation subsea cable connecting Puerto Rico and the US, expected to go live in Q3 '27 at sustained profitability levels close to 50% in 2024. And the agreement to sell our stake in Nabiax at attractive multiples is a further successful step in our asset recycling strategy to generate significant gains and unlock value, closing conditional upon receiving regulatory approvals.

Telxius 是我們一流的國際連接基礎設施，目前正在擴展其國際網絡，增加一條連接波多黎各和美國的新一代海底電纜，預計將於 2027 年第三季度投入使用，2024 年的持續盈利水平將接近 50%。而以有吸引力的價格出售我們在 Nabiax 的股份的協議是我們資產回收策略的另一個成功步驟，旨在產生可觀的收益並釋放價值，交易的完成取決於獲得監管部門的批准。

I will now hand over to Laura, who will give -- who will guide you through Hispam performance and the main financial topics.

現在我將把主題交給勞拉，她將指導你們了解 Hispam 的表現和主要的財務主題。

Thank you, Angel. In Hispam, as we saw on slide 13, we have recently taken relevant steps in the execution of our strategy. Firstly, in Peru, where Telefónica del Peru has filed for the ordinary insolvency procedure. This is the right decision to fulfill a fiduciary duty of protecting Telefónica shareholders' interest. In addition, new limited financing of approximately EUR390 million have been granted to Telefónica del Peru, subject to strict conditions.

謝謝你，天使。在 Hispam，正如我們在第 13 張投影片上看到的，我們最近在執行我們的策略時採取了相關措施。首先，在秘魯，秘魯電信公司 (Telefónica del Peru) 已申請普通破產程序。這是履行保護西班牙電信股東利益的受託責任的正確決定。此外，秘魯電信公司還獲得了約 3.9 億歐元的新有限融資，但須遵守嚴格的條件。

On top of that, last Monday, we announced the sale of our operations in Argentina for close to EUR1.2 billion, as a result of the highly competitive sale process, which has allowed us to optimize the proceeds significantly exceeding market expectations. This deal will have certain accounting impacts in Q1 2025. Around EUR1 billion FX translation impact that reflects the accumulated evaluation since the acquisition back in 1991. It is a noncash impact. And moreover, it has already been reflected in an equity. This is just a reclassification.

除此之外，上週一，我們宣布以近 12 億歐元的價格出售我們在阿根廷的業務，由於競爭激烈的銷售流程，我們能夠優化收益，大大超過市場預期。該交易將對2025年第一季產生一定的會計影響。約10億歐元的外匯翻譯影響反映了1991年收購以來的累積評估。這是一種非現金影響。而且它已經反映在股權上了。這只是重新分類。

But I would like to highlight again how these and conditions sales were signing and closing took place simultaneously allows us to avoid execution risk while cashing in close to EUR1.2 billion. We believe this demonstrates our execution focus, taking steps to continue with our portfolio simplification exercise under very attractive terms. You should expect from us to continue exploring value creation alternatives to our Hispam operations.

但我想再次強調，這些銷售條款的簽署和成交同時進行，使我們能夠避免執行風險，同時兌現近 12 億歐元。我們相信這體現了我們的執行重點，採取措施在非常有吸引力的條件下繼續我們的投資組合簡化工作。您應該期待我們繼續探索為我們的 Hispam 運營創造價值的替代方案。

Following the Hispam, we continue to work towards a more efficient and rational industry by sharing infrastructure and optimizing resources as shown on slide 14. In Colombia, we announced the integration of Movistar and Tigo's mobile access infrastructure into a jointly owned company to expand coverage to new locations and offering greater capacity and speed to customers.

繼 Hispam 之後，我們將繼續透過共享基礎設施和優化資源來努力實現更有效率、更合理的產業，如幻燈片 14 所示。在哥倫比亞，我們宣布將 Movistar 和 Tigo 的行動接取基礎設施整合為合資公司，以擴大新地點的覆蓋範圍並為客戶提供更大的容量和速度。

Our FTTH transformation progresses as planned and 96% of our fixed broadband access are connected to FTTH networks. This is a plus 5 percentage points year-on-year. Q4 '24 results were impacted by a more favorable comparative base in Q4 '23 driven by the depreciation of the Argentinian peso in Q4 '23 and the adoption of the new exchange rate in Venezuela. Revenue, EBITDA and EBITDAaL increased by 7.8%, 3.4% and 2.4% year-on-year.

光纖到戶改造進展順利，固定寬頻接取96%已實現光纖到府。這比去年同期增加了 5 個百分點。由於23年第四季阿根廷比索貶值以及委內瑞拉採用新匯率，23年第四季的比較基數更為有利，這影響了24年第四季的業績。營業收入、EBITDA及EBITDAaL年增7.8%、3.4%及2.4%。

Moving to our capital structure. Telefónica maintains a robust balance sheet position. As of December 2024, our net financial debt stood at EUR27.2 billion, translating to a net debt-to-EBITDAaL ratio of 2.58 times. During this year, net financial debt declined by EUR0.2 billion and net debt-to-EBITDAaL was reduced from 2.60 to 2.58 times, mainly due to the solid free cash flow generation, which accommodated at a strategic move to raise our stake in Telefónica Deutschland. We are committed to reduce leverage.

轉向我們的資本結構。西班牙電信公司的資產負債表狀況維持強勁。截至 2024 年 12 月，我們的淨金融債務為 272 億歐元，淨負債與 EBITDAaL 比率為 2.58 倍。今年，淨金融債務減少了 2 億歐元，淨債務與 EBITDAaL 比率從 2.60 倍降至 2.58 倍，這主要歸功於穩健的自由現金流產生，這適應了我們提高在 Telefónica Deutschland 的持股比例的戰略舉措。我們致力於降低槓桿率。

Meanwhile, Telefónica maintains a solid liquidity position of EUR20.9 billion that together with a line maturity profile allows us to cover the maturities over the next three years. Our debt is about 80% linked to fixed rates with an average life of 11.3 years, which places us in a comfortable position to face any market environment. It is to highlight that in January '25, Telefónica completed the refinancing of its main syndicated facility of EUR5.5 billion and extended its maturity to five years with two annual extension options up to a maximum maturity of seven years.

與此同時，西班牙電信公司保持著 209 億歐元的穩健流動資金狀況，再加上其信用額度到期情況，使我們能夠覆蓋未來三年的到期債務。我們的債務約 80% 與固定利率掛鉤，平均期限為 11.3 年，這使我們能夠輕鬆應對任何市場環境。值得一提的是，25 年 1 月，西班牙電信公司完成了其 55 億歐元主要銀團貸款的再融資，並將其期限延長至 5 年，並​​有兩次年度延期選擇，最長期限為 7 年。

Furthermore, we lower our debt-related interest cost to 3.32% versus 3.8% in December last year. Thanks to the active refinancing exercise undertaken in previous years, the robust position at fixed interest rates in strong currencies and lower interest rates in Brazilian reais.

此外，我們將債務相關利息成本從去年 12 月的 3.8% 降至 3.32%。由於前幾年積極的再融資活動，強勢貨幣固定利率和巴西雷亞爾利率較低，維持穩健地位。

On slide 16, free cash flow. On free cash flow, we delivered exactly what we promised last quarter. Q4 saw significant sequential improvement in line with typical historical patterns, plus 68% quarter-on-quarter, driving to a remarkable 14.1% free cash flow growth in 2024 over achieving guidance. In absolute terms and from what we shared with you in November 2023, free cash flow has grown by EUR0.5 billion, 25% growth in only 13 months.

第 16 張投影片是自由現金流。關於自由現金流，我們準確地兌現了上個季度的承諾。第四季按照典型的歷史模式實現了顯著的環比改善，並且環比增長了 68%，推動 2024 年自由現金流增長達到 14.1%，超出了預期。從絕對值來看，從我們在 2023 年 11 月與您分享的內容來看，自由現金流成長了 5 億歐元，僅 13 個月就成長了 25%。

Levels of this performance has been the solid operations underlying business performance, driven by a strong operational leverage and lower capital intensity. Additionally, we've seen reduced dividend leakage following the Telefónica Deutschland and we optimize financial items benefiting from FX hedges.

這一業績水準是業務表現背後的穩健運營，受強勁營運槓桿和較低資本密集度的推動。此外，繼德國電信公司之後，我們看到股息流失減少，我們優化了受益於外匯對沖的金融項目。

Moving to slide 17. At Telefónica, responsible digitization is fundamental to our strategy and operational excellence. We are working to provide greener, more accessible and trustworthy products and services. In 2024, we have demonstrated our commitment to our net zero targets by reducing our carbon emissions across all scopes with 89% of our overall electricity now coming from renewable sources.

移至投影片 17。在西班牙電信公司，負責任的數位化是我們策略和卓越營運的基礎。我們致力於提供更環保、更便利、更值得信賴的產品和服務。2024 年，我們將全面減少碳排放，並實現 89% 的總電力來自再生能源，這表明我們致力於實現淨零目標。

On the social front, we are providing wider coverage for our customers, while mobile broadband reaching 84% of the rural population in Brazil, 95% in Spain and over 99% in Germany. We have a diverse and motivated workforce with an employee NPS of 75 and a growing number of women executives. Our governance remains robust, with sustainably embedded across the business and value chain. For example, we have provided anti-corruption training to over 70,000 employees. We have carried out more than 20,000 audits related to sustainability risk and over 37% of our financing is now linked to sustainability indicators.

在社會方面，我們為客戶提供更廣泛的覆蓋，行動寬頻覆蓋巴西84%的農村人口、西班牙95%的農村人口和德國99%以上的農村人口。我們擁有多元化且積極進取的員工隊伍，員工 NPS 為 75，且女性主管的數量正在增加。我們的治理依然穩健，並且可持續地貫穿整個業務和價值鏈。例如，我們為7萬多名員工提供了反貪腐培訓。我們已經進行了超過 20,000 次與永續性風險相關的審計，目前我們超過 37% 的融資與永續性指標掛鉤。

These efforts have not gone unnoticed. With Telefónica receiving recognition from prestigious organizations, including Time Magazine, Newsweek and being awarded leading ESG scores for the sector by ISS ESG and Bloomberg, among others.

這些努力並沒有被忽視。西班牙電信公司獲得了《時代》雜誌、《新聞周刊》等知名機構的認可，並被 ISS ESG 和彭博社等評為該行業領先的 ESG 評分。

I will now hand back to Marc, who will wrap up.

現在我將把發言交還給馬克，他將結束發言。

Thank you, Laura. On slide 18, we show our guidance for 2025. As discussed, we will conduct a strategic review that will end during the second half of 2025. We do not want to foreclose any specifics, but it will be in line with what Telefónica is and has been and will, of course, focus on our know-how, industrial rationale and will be financially disciplined. In the meantime, we provide you with our 2025 guidance. For the sake of comparability, we decided to guide on unchanged consolidation perimeter as of December 31, 2024, whilst our offering organic guidance to avoid FX distortions.

謝謝你，勞拉。在投影片 18 上，我們展示了 2025 年的指導。正如討論的那樣，我們將進行一項策略審查，該審查將於 2025 年下半年結束。我們不想排除任何細節，但它將與西班牙電信的現狀和過去保持一致，當然，我們將專注於我們的專業知識和工業原理，並將遵守財務紀律。同時，我們為您提供2025年指導。為了方便比較，我們決定以截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日不變的合併範圍為指導，同時提供有機指導以避免外匯扭曲。

In 2025, we expect organic growth in both revenue, EBITDA and EBITDAaL minus CapEx. CapEx intensity to continue declining to less than 12.5% over sales by year-end, and free cash flow generation similar to the one posted in 2024, more than enough to pay a EUR0.3 dividend per share and continue deleveraging. Whilst we conduct our strategic review, our priority for 2025 is execution under disciplined capital allocation.

到 2025 年，我們預計收入、EBITDA 和 EBITDAaL 減去資本支出都將實現有機成長。到年底，資本支出強度將繼續下降至銷售額的 12.5% 以下，自由現金流產生量與 2024 年類似，足以支付每股 0.3 歐元的股息並繼續去槓桿。在我們進行策略審查的同時，我們 2025 年的首要任務是在嚴格的資本配置下執行。

So to recap the key takeaways for the year. In 2024, we delivered on our guidance. As such, we are preparing to adapt to changes in Europe as we announce our 2025 guidance and the dividend of EUR0.3 per share in cash. Spain, Brazil and Germany maintained momentum in Q4. At the same time, we deliberated on capital allocation, reducing our exposure to Hispam, strengthening our balance sheet.

因此，讓我們回顧一下今年的關鍵要點。2024年，我們兌現了我們的預期。因此，在我們宣布 2025 年指引和每股 0.3 歐元的現金股利時，我們正準備適應歐洲的變化。西班牙、巴西和德國在第四季度保持了成長勢頭。同時，我們仔細考慮了資本配置，減少了對 Hispam 的投資，加強了我們的資產負債表。

It is a new time in Europe as we see it, and we will conduct a strategic review to take the most of out of this new context, a review that will be concluded in the second half of the year 2025.

我們認為歐洲正處於一個新時期，我們將進行策略評估，以充分利用這一新環境，這項評估將於 2025 年下半年完成。

We are now ready to take your questions. Thank you.

我們現在準備好回答你們的問題。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Andrew Lee, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Andrew Lee。

Good morning. And welcome to the firm, Marc. I look forward to meeting you. We -- I had two questions, both bigger picture. First one was just, I guess, a few people were a little bit broadsided on the decision to put the midterm guidance on hold today. I wonder if you could just help us understand the decision behind that.

早安.歡迎加入公司，馬克。我期待與您見面。我們 — — 我有兩個問題，都是更大的問題。首先，我猜，有些人對於今天暫停中期指引的決定感到有些不滿。我想知道您是否可以幫助我們理解該決定背後的原因。

Normally, what we see is new management comes in and does a strategic review and then adjust the midterm guidance. Did you decide for the midterm guidance on hold because you don't believe it's achievable? And any help you can give us just in kind of in terms of reassuring on the underlying delivery of the firm right now prior to that strategic review would be really helpful.

通常情況下，我們看到的是新管理層上任後進行策略審查，然後調整中期指導。您是否決定暫停中期指導，因為您認為它無法實現？在進行策略評估之前，如果您能為我們提供任何幫助，讓我們對公司目前的基本交付感到放心，那將會非常有幫助。

And then second question, there's been -- I think you're in the press overnight, talking about potential ambitions for broader consolidation across Europe. One of the things that a lot of investors are talking about right now and are probably more excited about in the near term is in-market mobile consolidation. Do you see scope for Telefónica's ability to pursue and drive consolidation in any of your markets in the near to medium term? Thank you.

然後是第二個問題，我想您昨晚在媒體上談到了在整個歐洲進行更廣泛整合的潛在願望。許多投資者目前正在談論的事情之一，並且可能在短期內更為興奮的事情就是市場內的行動整合。您是否認為西班牙電信公司在中短期內有能力在貴公司的任何市場中追求和推動整合？謝謝。

Thank you for your kind welcome in your words. And so with regards to your first question, no, the -- we are focusing on the 2025 guidance and not on the midterm guidance, not because I -- we don't think it's achievable, not because we think there's any changes to what we have said, but to give us the necessary flex -- strategic flexibility to go around conducting our strategic review. So let me be very, very clear. Nothing has changed with that regard. But we do see changes in what is going to happen in Europe, and that takes me to your second question.

感謝您用言語表達的熱情歡迎。因此，關於您的第一個問題，不，我們關注的是 2025 年指引，而不是中期指引，這並不是因為我認為它無法實現，也不是因為我們認為我們所說的會有任何變化，而是為了給予我們必要的靈活性——戰略靈活性，以便我們進行戰略審查。所以請讓我非常非常清楚地講一下。在這方面沒有任何改變。但我們確實看到歐洲將要發生的變化，這就引出了我的第二個問題。

I know you've asked regarding in market. But on a broader European situation, we see -- we believe there are going to be drastic changes in Europe. It is very difficult to announce or to be very specific with regards to the speed at which that is going to happen. And that is something we are going to analyze in our strategic review. With regards to in-market consolidation, we do think there's going to be a bit more -- there is going to be more flexibility, but at this stage, to be rigorous and specific, I would need to leave it at that.

我知道您詢問過有關市場的問題。但從更廣泛的歐洲情勢來看，我們看到──我們相信歐洲將會發生劇烈的變化。很難宣布或具體說明這一過程發生的速度。這正是我們在戰略評估中要分析的內容。關於市場整合，我們確實認為還會有更多——將會有更多的彈性，但在這個階段，為了嚴格和具體，我需要就此打住。

Okay. Thank you very much, that's helpful.

好的。非常感謝，這很有幫助。

Mathieu Robilliard, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的 Mathieu Robilliard。

Yes. Good morning and thank you for tha presentation. And welcome also from my side to Marc. Marc, thanks for sharing your thoughts -- your initial thoughts, and I realize it's very early days. But I was trying to get a bit more detail on nuance notably based on what you said on your introduction remarks about the priorities. You did mention Spain and Brazil as core businesses. And you mentioned the stakes or your presence in Germany and the UK is strategic states. I don't know if that's a nuance that patterns. If you were suggesting something here, if you could clarify.

是的。早上好，感謝您的演講。我也代表我歡迎馬克。馬克，感謝您分享您的想法——您的初步想法，我意識到現在還為時過早。但我想更詳細地了解細微差別，特別是基於您在介紹中提到的優先事項。您確實提到西班牙和巴西是核心業務。您提到了您在德國和英國的存在是戰略國家。我不知道這是否是一種細微的模式。如果您在這裡提出建議，請澄清一下。

And more broadly, when you look at the portfolio of assets, what will be the driving elements to address each market? Is it the scale that you have today? And you could have tomorrow? Is it going to be -- is it profitable? Is it earning its cost of capital or not? If you could just give us a little bit of more details in terms of the concepts and the driving elements for your analysis.

更廣泛地說，當你審視資​​產組合時，哪些因素將成為解決每個市場的驅動因素？它是你現在的規模嗎？你還能擁有明天嗎？它會盈利嗎？它是否賺得了其資本成本？如果您能就您分析的概念和驅動因素向我們提供更多細節的話。

And then I had a question on the free cash flow guidance for 2025. I just wanted to clarify what was included in that compared to what you had said in the past. And from memory, I think, Laura, you had mentioned that in 2025, there was going to be a tax payment to Peru of around EUR300 million. I just wanted to confirm whether that was in the guidance or not anymore? And also, I think you made it clear now that you don't include anything coming from Colombia, but I just wanted to make that super clear. And lastly, if there's any FX hedging for Brazil that is taken into your guidance? Thank you.

然後我對 2025 年的自由現金流指引有一個疑問。我只是想澄清一下，與您過去所說的相比，其中包含了什麼內容。勞拉，我記得您曾提到，2025 年，秘魯需要繳納約 3 億歐元的稅金。我只是想確認這是否還在指導之中？而且，我認為你現在已經明確表示不包括任何來自哥倫比亞的產品，但我只是想把這一點說得非常清楚。最後，您是否考慮了針對巴西的外匯對沖？謝謝。

Thanks, Mathieu, for your welcome and your four questions. But -- so there is no nuance, and there's no suggestion. We are where we are. We see great opportunities in Europe, driven by what is happening and by what I think, and we think everybody can read and listen to. And we have, as I was saying, very strong position in three very large markets within Europe. And there's no more to that than what I've said.

謝謝 Mathieu 的歡迎和提出的四個問題。但是——因此沒有細微差別，也沒有任何建議。我們就在我們所在的位置。我們看到了歐洲存在的巨大機遇，這些機會是由正在發生的事情和我的想法所驅動的，我們認為每個人都可以閱讀和傾聽。正如我所說，我們在歐洲三大市場中佔據非常強勢的地位。我就說這麼多了。

Regarding the driving elements, we are going to conduct a strategic review but happened -- I mean this is something we're announcing today. But I think I can say very clearly that the analysis is going to be driven by operation rationale, by improving our margins, consolidating our market so that scale can give us a better position midterm and long term. We think that -- and we're not alone in this, of course, we think that the European market is fragmented and therefore, inefficient.

關於驅動因素，我們將進行策略審查，但發生了——我的意思是這是我們今天宣布的事情。但我想我可以非常清楚地說，分析將由營運原則驅動，透過提高我們的利潤率，鞏固我們的市場，以便規模可以讓我們在中期和長期處於更有利的地位。我們認為──當然，我們並不是唯一持這種觀點的人，我們認為歐洲市場是分散的，因此效率低。

And with -- and this is different to other markets. We can all see in Asia, in the Middle East and the US. And we think the winds are changing in that respect. And that is why we're going to conduct our strategic review to analyze that and to be ready for that. Thanks. Laura?

而且—這與其他市場不同。我們都可以在亞洲、中東和美國看到。我們認為這方面的風向正在改變。這就是為什麼我們要進行策略評估，進行分析，並做好準備。謝謝。勞拉？

Yes. Thank you, Mathieu, for your question. I'm happy to give more clarity.

是的。謝謝 Mathieu 的提問。我很高興能夠提供更清晰的解釋。

Free cash flow 2025 guidance is with perimeter equal to 2024. So you can see comparability. Therefore, we have not included the recent impact of the sale of Argentina, we have not included the recent [filing] of the Peruvian process, which both happened on Monday. That means we have Peru business as usual. I don't recall guiding on tax payments because we always say in the case of Peru, we always say timing is uncertain, but I can confirm that in 2024, we have paid EUR301 million of tax contingency in Peru. And whatever we estimate we have to pay in '25 and '26 is included in our guidance.

2025 年自由現金流指引與 2024 年相同。因此你可以看到可比性。因此，我們沒有包括阿根廷出售的近期影響，也沒有包括秘魯最近的（備案）程序，這兩起事件都是在周一發生的。這意味著秘魯一切照常。我不記得有關納稅的指導，因為我們總是說，就秘魯的情況而言，我們總是說時間不確定，但我可以確認，在 2024 年，我們已經在秘魯支付了 3.01 億歐元的稅款。我們估計 25 年和 26 年需要支付的費用都包含在我們的指導中。

Having said that, perimeter is definitely going to change, and we will have to give you the proper explanation, but there's going to be more changes. I remind you that Colombia is also for sale, and we have to wait for regulatory approval. And then again, timing is uncertain. Argentina, we just did. More deals could come as portfolio optimization in the case of Hispam is not finalized yet, and we still need to get the authorization of the process of Peru that we just filed.

話雖如此，週長肯定會改變，我們必須給你適當的解釋，但還會有更多的變化。我提醒你，哥倫比亞也在出售，我們必須等待監管部門的批准。而且，時機也是不確定的。阿根廷，我們剛剛做到了。由於 Hispam 案中的投資組合優化尚未最終完成，因此可能會有更多的交易，而且我們仍然需要獲得剛剛提交的秘魯流程的授權。

I also confirm that the favorable filing of Colombia is not included in 2025. We had a positive P&L impact in 2024, but the proceeds are expected to be collected in 2026. And regarding FX hedging, we continue with our strategy, which has proven successful. And I can tell you that by now, we have approximately 60% of the Brazilian free cash flow hedge. We have benefited from the more favorable real FX for the first two months, but now we have hedged approximately 60%.

我還確認，2025 年不包括哥倫比亞的優惠申請。我們在 2024 年獲得了正面的損益影響，但預計收益將在 2026 年收回。至於外匯對沖，我們將繼續推行已被證明成功的策略。我可以告訴你，到目前為止，我們已經擁有巴西自由現金流對沖的約 60%。前兩個月我們受益於更為有利的實際外匯，但現在我們已經對沖了大約 60%。

So again, that will be very much sheltered, and on top of that, as you know, and I always emphasize there's a natural hedge on top of this financial help. So I hope I provide you enough detail, I'm happy to give you offline more if needed.

所以，再說一次，這將是非常受保護的，而且最重要的是，如你所知，我一直強調，在這種財政援助的基礎上，還有一種自然的對沖。所以我希望我能夠為您提供足夠的細節，如果需要的話，我很樂意為您提供更多離線資訊。

Thank you very much. I'm sorry, Marc. I was hoping you were not counting the questions.

非常感謝。對不起，馬克。我希望你沒有計算問題。

Akhil Dattani, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的阿基爾達塔尼 (Akhil Dattani)。

Yeah, hi. Good morning. And Marc, welcome from mine as well. I've got two questions, if I can, please. Firstly, there was a very interesting interview with you yesterday in the Financial Times where you talked about some of the things you've already raised this morning, but I guess more broadly talking about the tech space.

是的，你好。早安.還有馬克，我也代表我向你表示歡迎。我有兩個問題，如果可以的話，請回答。首先，昨天《金融時報》對您進行了一次非常有趣的採訪，您在採訪中談到了今天早上已經提出的一些事情，但我想更廣泛地談論的是科技領域。

And I guess I was looking to get a few comments from you on that and just to understand better exactly what you're thinking. The comments in the FT, and I don't know how accurate they are, were that your comments were that you felt there was an important role for Europe and Telefónica to play in tech, but you said you wanted to focus in areas that you thought you had natural right to play.

我想從您那裡得到一些關於此的評論，以便更好地了解您到底在想什麼。英國《金融時報》的評論（我不知道它們有多準確）是，您認為歐洲和西班牙電信公司在科技領域發揮著重要作用，但您表示希望專注於您認為自己有權參與的領域。

So I guess I'd love to understand what you think that is and how you think about it. Obviously, appreciating it's early days, and so any comments will be high level. Is this about scaling up Telefónica Tech? Is this transformational? Or is it just bolt-ons? Any sort of flavor you can give us on that would be super interesting.

所以我想我很想了解您是怎麼想的以及您是如何看待這個問題的。顯然，我們很欣賞現在的早期階段，因此任何評論都將是高水準的。這是為了擴大 Telefónica Tech 的規模嗎？這具有變革性嗎？或只是螺栓固定？如果您能給我們任何關於這方面的見解，那將會非常有趣。

And then the second one is, again, just referencing back to your comments on consolidation. I guess, more cross-border than in-market. You talked about scale being important, what do you think are the main benefits of bigger players in Europe, and you talked a lot about fragmentation. But I guess what do you think being bigger across Europe as a whole really offers? And why do you think that's so important. That would be really interesting as well. Thanks a lot.

然後第二個問題再參考你對合併的評論。我認為，跨境的比國內市場多。您說過規模很重要，您認為歐洲大型企業的主要優勢是什麼，您也談了很多關於碎片化的問題。但我想知道，您認為擴大整個歐洲的規模真正能帶來什麼好處呢？您為什麼認為這麼重要？那也一定會很有趣。多謝。

Thanks, Akhil. So regarding your first question, what is relevant is -- what is relevant for us with regards to the conducting of our strategic review is that we're going to focus on areas where we have proven know-how and in markets that we know well or very well. And those would have to do, of course, with telecom's infrastructure and areas where we already operate. So we will conduct a strategic review and do not want to foreclose conclusions, but that strategic review is going to be where things where Telefónica exists and is, there are going to be no market adventures in two areas or technological areas where we do not operate.

謝謝，阿基爾。因此，關於您的第一個問題，與我們進行策略審查相關的是，我們將重點關注我們已證明擁有專業知識的領域以及我們熟悉或非常了解的市場。當然，這些與電信基礎設施和我們已經運營的地區有關。因此，我們將進行戰略評估，並且不想預先得出結論，但戰略評估的重點是西班牙電信現有的業務，以及我們不在兩個領域或技術領域開展任何市場冒險活動。

And at this stage, this is all we can really say, but markets where we operate in means markets where we have clients, where we have revenues and where we have EBITDA. With regards to consolidations and advantages that consolidation brings, so I want to be cautious, but it is true that European markets are local markets where consolidation has very clear advantages when we're discussing in market.

在現階段，我們只能說這些，我們經營的市場是指我們有客戶、有收入、有 EBITDA 的市場。關於整合以及整合帶來的優勢，我想要保持謹慎，但事實上，歐洲市場是本地市場，當我們在市場中討論時，整合具有非常明顯的優勢。

But we think that -- and this is something we need to look into very carefully, but we think that having scale, having more investment capacity, having a more solid balance sheet and having a proper number of clients, one can eventually leverage on, is an advantage.

但我們認為——這是我們需要非常仔細研究的事情，但我們認為擁有規模、擁有更多的投資能力、擁有更穩健的資產負債表和擁有適當數量的客戶，最終可以利用，是一種優勢。

We're not expecting to discover any sort of chest at the beginning of a rainbow. And with regards to that, there's a lot of know-how in the telecoms market, and we can see what happens when there are large operators in large markets like in the US or elsewhere. So recapping a bit, Akhil, I'd say, there are clear advantages in intra-market consolidation, and we think things are going to move in Europe. But before they move, things will be silent also.

我們沒有想到會在彩虹的起點發現任何類型的寶箱。關於這一點，電信市場有很多專業知識，我們可以看看當美國或其他地方的大市場有大型營運商時會發生什麼。所以，阿希爾，我稍微總結一下，我想說，市場內部整合有明顯的優勢，我們認為歐洲的情況也會改變。但在他們行動之前，一切也會保持安靜。

So that's what we need to concentrate and analyze very carefully. And we think the tendency in Europe or the direction in Europe is to have large European telecom operators. And when that happens, because we think it is going to happen, we want to play a leading role. And here, just referring to my previous answers, always a disciplined, looking into cash, looking into generating cash value for our shareholders and within areas we know well. Thanks, Akhil.

所以這就是我們需要集中註意力並仔細分析的。我們認為歐洲的趨勢或方向是擁有大型歐洲電信業者。當這種情況發生時，因為我們認為它會發生，所以我們希望發揮主導作用。這裡，僅參考我先前的回答，始終保持紀律性，研究現金，研究為股東和我們熟悉的領域創造現金價值。謝謝，阿基爾。

Thank you, Marc. And just one super quick clarification on your first answer. When you think about the areas where you said Telefónica has substantial know-how and a right to play and you think about targeting growth in those areas. Do you have any bias in terms of M&A versus organic investments? Or is that still undecided?

謝謝你，馬克。針對您的第一個回答，我只想做一點非常快速的澄清。當您考慮西班牙電信擁有大量專業知識和參與權的領域時，您會考慮在這些領域實現成長。您對併購投資與有機投資有何偏見？或者說還未確定？

That's a good question. And this, I am completely agnostic. We're going to look into net present value in every single one of our investments. So it will have to do with opportunity priorities, but always under a net present value analysis.

這是個好問題。而對此，我完全持不可知論。我們將研究每一項投資的淨現值。因此，這將與機會優先級有關，但始終在淨現值分析下。

Great. Thanks so much.

偉大的。非常感謝。

David Wright, Bank of America.

美國銀行的戴維賴特（David Wright）。

Hello, guys. I hope you can hear me. I guess [you finished] around the balance sheet. You just said having a strong balance sheet. The leverage metrics you gave, I always tend to quite own representative of the way that agency is look at you. I think they can at least a turn with their adjustments.

大家好。我希望你能聽到我的聲音。我想你已經完成了資產負債表的工作。您剛才說擁有強勁的資產負債表。您給出的槓桿指標，我總是傾向於相當代表該機構看待您的方式。我認為他們至少可以透過調整來實現轉變。

And you talk about deleveraging, you haven't seen any deleverage in '24 or from 2.6 to 2.58 is minimal. You are selling LatAm assets at 3 times-or so which is not making any difference. And you're guiding to no change in free cash flow. So I'm not really sure how this ongoing deleverage accelerates and your leverage is undoubtedly at the higher end of European telco that is undoubtedly lowering its leverage targets. So I'm wondering how you're thinking about leverage in general, where it should be and the dividend, which is obviously a yield of around about 7% (inaudible) your cost of debt is only 3%. That's question number one.

至於去槓桿，你沒有看到 24 年有任何去槓桿，或者說從 2.6 到 2.58 的去槓桿率是最小的。你以 3 倍左右的價格出售拉丁美洲資產，但這並沒有什麼區別。並且您指導的自由現金流不會有任何變化。因此，我不太確定這種持續的去槓桿化將如何加速，而且你們的槓桿率無疑處於歐洲電信公司的較高水平，而歐洲電信公司無疑正在降低其槓桿率目標。所以我想知道您對槓桿率有什麼看法，它應該在哪裡，以及股息，顯然收益率約為 7%（聽不清楚），您的債務成本僅為 3%。這是第一個問題。

And then I guess, question number two, your strategic review to be completed by the end of the year, and I said this with the greatest respect, that seems an awfully long time. Why would it take so long? The assets in the portfolio seems reasonably defined, the core assets, your infrastructure is reasonably defined in terms of Telxius and what is being sold, et cetera. Spain is well invested, Brazil is in good shape. I'm just wondering why it takes so long? And I hope that question doesn't seem disrespectful. Thank you.

然後我想，第二個問題，您的策略評估將在今年年底前完成，我非常尊重地說，這似乎是一個非常長的時間。為什麼要花這麼久？投資組合中的資產似乎定義合理，核心資產、基礎設施在 Telxius 和正在出售的資產等方面定義合理。西班牙投資充足，巴西狀況良好。我只是想知道為什麼要花這麼長時間？我希望這個問題不會顯得無禮。謝謝。

Laura, if you want to go ahead with the first one, I'll answer the second one.

蘿拉，如果你想繼續第一個問題，我會回答第二個問題。

Sure. Hello, David. Thank you for your question. In terms of deleverage in 2024, we are very satisfied with the reduction you've seen, it's 0.02, but please take into account that we have included all the purchase of the minority shareholders of Telefónica Deutschland. So if you include that, the deleveraging path has been much more positive.

當然。你好，大衛。感謝您的提問。就 2024 年的去槓桿而言，我們對您看到的減幅非常滿意，為 0.02，但請考慮到我們已經將 Telefónica Deutschland 的少數股東的所有購買都包括在內。所以如果把這一點考慮進去，去槓桿的路徑就會更積極。

Free cash flow has been very strong, [EUR2.634 million] 14% growth. I remind you as well the high amount of contingencies we included in Peru in that figure, and free cash flow continues being the main deleveraging driver and which is a more structural way to deleverage.

自由現金流非常強勁，成長 14% [263.4 萬歐元]。我還提醒您，我們在該數字中包含了秘魯的大量應急費用，而自由現金流仍然是去槓桿的主要驅動力，這是一種更具結構性的去槓桿方式。

Having said that, and if we talk about the credit rated agencies, you're absolutely right. They do their own calculations. Those are public. Our improvement in terms of the credit rating calculations are better than the reported ratio we disclosed. It's going to be disclosed pretty soon. We are going to have the meetings with them on end of this month, beginning -- sorry, end of March, beginning of April.

話雖如此，如果我們談論信用評級機構，你完全正確。他們有自己的計算。這些都是公開的。我們在信用評級計算方面的改進優於我們揭露的報告比率。它很快就會被披露。我們將在本月底，也就是三月底或四月初與他們舉行會議。

I think they will welcome our strong free cash flow. They will welcome our strong core, noncore strategy, the steps we are taking in portfolio optimization. So we are pretty confident, and I -- hopefully, you can see there in the report when those are public.

我認為他們會歡迎我們強勁的自由現金流。他們會歡迎我們強大的核心、非核心策略以及我們在投資組合優化方面所採取的措施。所以我們非常有信心，而且我希望當這些內容公開時，您能在報告中看到它們。

Going forward, on 2025, for the time being, we are setting a target of a stabilized free cash flow. You have to look at that in the light of where we started in 2023. So if you look at the growth in those years accumulated is pretty strong. Free cash flow will continue to be the driver. Free cash flow is driven by growing operating cash flow on top of the very granular management we do of every single financial line below the operating cash flow, but the sale of assets in Hispam is going to benefit probably more than what you think because you have to take into account that Colombia is a highly lever country.

展望未來，我們暫時以 2025 年為目標，實現自由現金流的穩定。你必須從我們 2023 年的起點來看這個問題。因此，如果你看看這些年的累積成長情況，你會發現它相當強勁。自由現金流將繼續成為推動力。自由現金流是由不斷增長的營運現金流驅動的，我們對營運現金流以下的每一條財務線都進行了非常細緻的管理，但出售 Hispam 的資產可能比你想像的受益更多，因為你必須考慮到哥倫比亞是一個高槓桿國家。

So when that transaction happens, the impact in deleverage is going to help on that deleveraging path. For the time being, we are sticking to 2025 targets. The targets of deleveraging is reduced, the deleverage further in 2025. We are absolutely committed to our investment grade and continue reducing the deleverage, and for the dividend that you mentioned, we are confirming the 2025 dividend of EUR0.30. Everything else will be part of the strategic review that Marc has been referring to.

因此，當該交易發生時，去槓桿的影響將有助於去槓桿化過程。目前，我們堅持2025年的目標。去槓桿目標降低，2025年進一步去槓桿。我們絕對致力於我們的投資等級並繼續減少去槓桿，對於您提到的股息，我們確認 2025 年股息為 0.30 歐元。其餘一切都將成為馬克所指的策略評估的一部分。

So David I think your question with regards to the strategic review is respectful and fair. And I agree or would agree with you if we announced that it would be ready by the end of 2025. And what I think I said or in any case, what I meant is before 2025. We don't want to set a specific date to have the strategic review concluded and to share it appropriately before the teams are finally set and the planning agreed. So the reason we leave it in open is so that we don't artificially put a date that is not the right date.

所以大衛，我認為你關於策略評估的問題是尊重和公平的。如果我們宣布它將在 2025 年底準備就緒，我同意或會同意您的觀點。我認為我所說的或無論如何我的意思是在 2025 年之前。在最終確定團隊和商定計劃之前，我們不想設定一個特定的日期來完成策略評估並適當地分享它。因此，我們將其保持開放狀態是為了我們不會人為地設定一個不正確的日期。

So the objective is before 2025 -- before the end of 2025. And if it were by the end of 2025 with the information I have, and I think you've made a good analysis. Our knowledge today would mean that we've taken a long time.

因此目標是在 2025 年之前——2025 年底之前。如果到 2025 年底，根據我掌握的信息，我認為你的分析很到位。我們今天所掌握的知識意味著我們已經花了很長時間。

Thank you (inaudible)

謝謝（聽不清楚）

Fernando Cordero, Banco Santander.

費爾南多·科爾德羅，桑坦德銀行。

Hello, good morning and thanks for taking my two questions. The first one is for Marc. And first of all, welcome Marc to the story. My question is also on capital allocation, you have been quite clear on the two factors that you would be included in your decisions that would be industrial rationale and financial discipline. In that sense, I understand this is still also early days, but do you see industrial synergies in order to understand this industry rationale to include your exposure to IT services and particularly, I'm talking about an asset that you won't know quite well, which is [mean side]

您好，早安，謝謝您回答我的兩個問題。第一個是給馬克的。首先，歡迎馬克加入我們的故事。我的問題也是關於資本配置的，您已經非常清楚您在決策中會考慮的兩個因素，即行業理性和財務紀律。從這個意義上講，我知道這還為時過早，但您是否看到了行業協同效應，以便了解這個行業的基本原理，包括您對 IT 服務的了解，特別是我所說的您不太了解的一項資產，即[平均邊]

And also, I would like to expand the discussion to not only to services on top of connectivity in the B2B segment, but also in the B2C segment. And which just do you see the current exposure of Telefónica to the media business, for example, (inaudible) also a relevant one in your current portfolio?

此外，我想擴大討論範圍，不僅包括 B2B 領域的連結服務，還包括 B2C 領域的連結服務。您認為西班牙電信目前在媒體業務方面的投資，例如（聽不清楚），與您目前的投資組合中的哪些部分相關？

And the second question is for Angel and particularly in Spain. I'm willing to understand a little bit what is your outlook for the OpEx in Spain, considering that we have a tailwind in cost in 2024 coming from the personal restructuring that is still having some impact in 2025, I would like to understand, first, how do you see the whole OpEx at least qualitatively performing? And also, what kind of revenue growth would you be requiring in Spain in order to maintain the EBITDA flat? Many thanks.

第二個問題是針對安吉爾 (Angel) 的，特別是針對西班牙的。我願意了解一點，您對西班牙的營運支出有何展望，考慮到我們在 2024 年的成本因個人重組而出現順風，而這在 2025 年仍會產生一定影響，我想了解，首先，您如何看待整個運營支出至少在質量上的表現？另外，為了保持 EBITDA 平穩，您需要西班牙的收入成長到什麼程度？非常感謝。

Thank you for your welcome, Fernando. Regarding IT services, what we can say is that you know our strategy well, and we will see what our strategic revision concludes with regards to IT services. With regards to (inaudible) which is an asset, I think I do know well or very, very well. There could be a fit and there could -- there may not be a fit. It will depend on what our focus is, what our conclusion -- strategic conclusions are.

謝謝您的歡迎，費爾南多。關於 IT 服務，我們可以說的是，您非常了解我們的策略，我們將看到我們的策略修訂在 IT 服務方面得出什麼結論。關於（聽不清楚）哪種是資產，我想我很清楚或非常非常清楚。有可能適合，也有可能不適合。這將取決於我們的重點是什麼，我們的結論是什麼——策略結論是什麼。

What I can say is that if there is any M&A within the IT sector or whatever sector, we will always maintain strategic flexibility to decide in the last moment, if that is the right deal or not, and it will always look at what the NPV is. So there is no and will be no foregone conclusion after we review our strategy with regards to IT. And with regards to all our businesses, based on the changes we see that are happening, and we think happening in Europe and are going to happen in Europe.

我可以說的是，如果 IT 行業或其他任何行業有任何併購，我們將始終保持戰略靈活性，以便在最後一刻決定這是否是正確的交易，並且始終會考慮 NPV 是多少。因此，在我們審查了我們的 IT 策略之後，並沒有、也不會有任何定論。就我們所有的業務而言，基於我們看到的正在發生的變化，我們認為這些變化正在歐洲發生，並且將要在歐洲發生。

And Fernando, I would say the same with regards to B2C or any related services. We -- with regards to the future, we always need to be very, very precise and analytical to see where we do actually have know-how not only from a theoretical and strategic point of view, but how we bring that know-how down to operations and how we enhance that value specifically.

費爾南多，對於 B2C 或任何相關服務，我也持同樣的看法。對於未來，我們始終需要非常精確和具有分析能力，不僅要從理論和策略的角度了解我們實際上擁有的專業知識，還要了解我們如何將這些專業知識運用到營運中，以及如何具體提升這一價值。

So that would certainly include Telefónica Tech. But any potential with regards to B2C, we would be very, very careful and have to be very sure. But I do have to postpone anything further than these generalities, which are very strong and very important to when we conclude our strategic revision.

因此這肯定包括西班牙電信公司 (Telefónica Tech)。但對於 B2C 的任何潛力，我們都會非常非常小心，並且必須非常確定。但我確實必須推遲討論這些概括性問題以外的任何內容，這些概括性問題對於我們完成策略修訂非常重要。

And thank you, Fernando, for your second question. The outlook for Spain that we see for 2025, on revenue, we are expecting to sustain year-on-year growth, slightly above what we've seen in 2024. This will be fostered by retail with growth, both on B2C and B2B. On B2C, we have the January '25 price increase, we have a very solid mix of conversion KPIs, the ARPU that churn, the NPS, the net adds supporting a customer lifetime value, which is double the next competitor of ours.

謝謝費爾南多提出的第二個問題。我們對 2025 年西班牙收入前景的預測是，我們預計其收入將保持同比增長，略高於 2024 年的水平。零售業的成長將推動這一進程，無論是 B2C 還是 B2B。在 B2C 領域，我們在 25 年 1 月提高了價格，我們擁有非常穩固的轉換 KPI、流失的 ARPU、NPS、支援客戶終身價值的淨增量，這些是我們下一個競爭對手的兩倍。

In B2B, we continue to grow above the market differentially. But in contrast, wholesale and others will decline. We'll have decline with the transition of the new wholesale contracts, which stabilize and give visibility long term but have a slight deflation. Net-net, the combination of retail and wholesale revenues will result in growth in revenue in Spain, again, above what we've seen in 2024.

在B2B領域，我們持續以差異化方式實現高於市場的成長。但相較之下，批發和其他行業將會下降。隨著新批發合約的轉變，我們的業務將出現下滑，從長期來看，這將保持穩定並具有可見性，但會出現輕微的通貨緊縮。淨收入和批發收入的總和將導致西班牙的收入成長，並且將再次高於我們在 2024 年看到的水平。

Regarding OpEx that you were asking or the translation of this into EBITDA. We're expecting EBITDA to grow by low single digit above revenue growth in Spain, this is on the back of the revenue trajectory that I spoke about and continuous efficiencies. We still have some tailwinds from the rightsizing of staff of last year. We have automatization, simplification, the full impact of switching off the copper. So as a result, EBITDA margin should be in line with what we had this year.

關於您詢問的 OpEx 或將其轉換為 EBITDA。我們預計 EBITDA 將比西班牙的收入成長高出個位數，這是基於我所說的收入軌跡和持續的效率。我們仍然受益於去年員工精簡帶來的一些有利因素。我們擁有自動化、簡化、關閉銅線的全面影響。因此，EBITDA 利潤率應該與今年的水平一致。

EBITDAaL, which was in the positive trajectory in the second half of the year, 2024 should grow in full year 2025. And CapEx-wise, we continue reducing CapEx to sales towards the target that we have shared with you. So all in all, there is supportive outlook for the cash flow generation of our Spanish operation.

EBITDAaL 在 2024 年下半年呈現正向成長趨勢，預計在 2025 年全年也將成長。就資本支出而言，我們將繼續減少用於銷售的資本支出，以實現我們與您分享的目標。總的來說，我們西班牙業務的現金流前景看好。

Okay. That's all of my questions.

好的。這就是我所有的問題。

Luigi Minerva, HSBC.

路易吉‧米勒瓦 (Luigi Minerva)，匯豐銀行。

Yes. Good morning. Thanks for taking my two questions, and welcome to Marc also from my side. So the first question is, Marc, just going back to your comments on the case for cross-border consolidation in Europe. As you rightly say, European markets are local. And I think that's the key hurdle to deliver cross-border synergies in case of combinations across markets.

是的。早安.感謝您回答我的兩個問題，我也歡迎馬克 (Marc) 的回答。所以第一個問題是，馬克，回到你對歐洲跨國合併案例的評論。正如您所說，歐洲市場是本地化的。我認為這是跨市場合併時實現跨國綜效的關鍵障礙。

I guess my question is, from your discussions, both at the local government level and perhaps in Brussels, do you sense appetite from the policymakers for a drastic change to basically going beyond the national market more towards a single market. I'll just make a very obvious example, Spectrum.

我的問題是，從你們在地方政府以及布魯塞爾的討論來看，你們是否感覺到政策制定者有意進行徹底的變革，從根本上超越全國市場，走向單一市場。我舉一個很明顯的例子，Spectrum。

Spectrum is national. And there's always been very strong resistance from the local countries to give up any sovereignty on Spectrum. And until that's the case, it's very difficult to think about a single market for telecoms and therefore, very difficult to think about cross-border synergies.

頻譜是全國性的。當地國家始終強烈抵制放棄對光譜的任何主權。在此之前，很難想像電信業的單一市場，因此也很難想像跨國綜效。

And the second question is on Germany. And I guess what we notice in this quarter is clearly very strong acceleration of migration to -- of the 1&1 customer, a big step up in Q4. So it would be interesting to see what kind of phasing you expect through the quarters in 2025?

第二個問題是關於德國的。我想我們在本季注意到的是，1&1 客戶的遷移速度明顯加快，在第四季有了很大的進步。那麼，看看您預計 2025 年各季度將出現什麼樣的分階段變化，這將會很有趣嗎？

Secondly, we see ARPU dilution, and I think you referred to the family plans. So again, if we should extrapolate what we see in Q4 into 2025? And then more generally, a comment about competitive dynamics in Germany, which clearly seems to deteriorate. Thank you.

其次，我們看到 ARPU 值稀釋，我想您提到的是家庭計劃。那麼，我們是否應該將第四季的情況推論到 2025 年呢？更普遍地說，關於德國競爭力的評論似乎明顯惡化了。謝謝。

Thank you, Luigi for your welcome and your questions. I'll answer the first one. So you were asking, do I sense a change regarding drastic change? I would say, this is my analysis and the conclusion of my conversation, and my reading and our reading of the situation is that it's -- I would take it further than sense. I would say, yeah, we detect a determination. And I would encourage you and other listeners to use other sources and reach your own conclusions.

謝謝 Luigi 的歡迎與提問。我來回答第一個問題。所以你問的是，我是否感覺到了劇烈的變化？我想說，這是我的分析和我談話的結論，我對情況的解讀和我們的解讀是──我會比常識更進一步。我想說，是的，我們發現了一個決心。我鼓勵您和其他聽眾使用其他來源並得出自己的結論。

We detect a determination for drastic change in Europe with regards to strategic autonomy. And I would say I agree with the way you share the difficulties ahead with regards to European level consolidation. And I agree or I'd say we would agree that those exist, and the speed and the level of the execution of that determination is something that we need to see happen.

我們發現歐洲決心在戰略自主方面做出重大改變。我想說我同意您所分享的關於歐洲層面整合未來困難的觀點。我同意，或者說我們會同意這些是存在的，我們需要看到這項決心的執行速度和水準。

And this is, I'd say, one of the major issues we need to analyze in our strategic review. But it is my opinion that things have changed drastically to use, Luigi your expression with regards to Europe, and that strategic autonomy with regards to what is going on in the world with the US with regards to the war in Ukraine, and with the strategic importance of what our communications are, there's a lot of people on this call. And I would bet a lot of money that every single one of us has a mobile very near us that has all our information, exactly where we are, who we discuss, what our bank accounts are, everything.

我想說，這是我們在策略評估中需要分析的主要問題之一。但我認為，情況已經發生了巨大變化，路易吉，你關於歐洲的表述，以及關於世界上正在發生的事情的戰略自主權，關於美國在烏克蘭戰爭方面的情況，以及關於我們通信的戰略重要性，有很多人參加了這次電話會議。我敢打賭，我們每個人都隨身帶著一部手機，裡面存著我們的所有信息，我們在哪裡，我們和誰聊天，我們的銀行帳戶是什麼，一切的一切。

And in this context that we think there is going to be change. And that before there's a storm -- in Spain, we say that before the storm is the most calm moment. And this is the sort of thing we need to analyze very carefully in our strategic review.

在此背景下，我們認為將會發生改變。在暴風雨來臨之前——在西班牙，我們說暴風雨來臨之前是最平靜的時刻。這是我們需要在戰略評估中仔細分析的。

And regarding your questions on Germany, I will make a high-level comment initially and then I'll hand over to Markus to elaborate in more detail. With the 1&1 migration, it's taking place broadly in line with our expectations. We expect it to be completed on time with (inaudible) [deadline] And on the competitive dynamics in Germany, I would like to say that the wholesale contract that was rented by one of our competitors to 1&1, changed the dynamics in the market, allowing for instance, to top players offering something similar to unlimited at very low prices.

關於您關於德國的問題，我將首先做出高層的評論，然後交給馬庫斯進行更詳細的闡述。隨著 1&1 遷移的進行，其進展大致符合我們的預期。我們預計它將按時完成（聽不清楚）[最後期限]。關於德國的競爭態勢，我想說的是，我們的一個競爭對手租給 1&1 的批發合約改變了市場態勢，例如，允許頂級參與者以非常低的價格提供類似無限量的服務。

Last year, we also tried to increase more-for-more movements in the market, and it was not followed by the other players. So we had to adjust in order to continue having the best mix of value versus price to our customers in Germany. So yes, there is more competitive intensity, but it should be -- it's a competitive market, and we have a very strong asset. As I said in my previous presentation, we have quality, which is improving and exceeding the one-off of our peers in the German market. And we are having a very good commercial traction.

去年，我們也嘗試在市場上增加多對多的動作，但其他參與者並未跟進。因此，我們必須進行調整，以便繼續為德國客戶提供最佳的價值與價格組合。所以是的，競爭更加激烈，但這是應該的——這是一個競爭激烈的市場，我們擁有非常強大的資產。正如我在之前的演講中所說，我們的品質正在不斷提高，並且超過了德國市場的同行。我們的商業吸引力非常大。

Markus, if you can elaborate, please, on the details.

Markus，請您詳細說明一下。

Thank you, Angel. I think overall, the German market outlook in fixed and mobile is growing for 2025, and clearly, it's a segmented market. I think our strategy last year and will also be continued this year. It's a mix of retail and wholesale. In retail, we have been able to add more than 800,000 postpaid net adds and we are now going into all segments. So clearly, also the ARPU mix is different. So we go from discount into premium segment. So clearly, the contribution of the segmented approach also allows us to gain this momentum.

謝謝你，天使。我認為總體而言，到 2025 年，德國固定和行動市場前景將持續成長，而且顯然這是一個細分市場。我認為我們去年的策略今年也會延續。它是零售和批發的混合體。在零售業，我們的後付費淨增用戶已超過 80 萬個，目前我們正在進入所有細分市場。顯然，ARPU 組合也不同。因此，我們從折扣市場進入高端市場。因此顯然，分段式方法的貢獻也使我們獲得了這種動力。

So overall, the segmentation and the mix that we currently see from our perspective is very balanced. We also have been able to add new wholesale partners. So overall, to achieve our 2025 target is a very balanced approach between retail and wholesale and clearly by leveraging all segments. So the ARPU mix from that instance on the one hand, driven by the family offers. But on the other side, also of a different composition of postpaid gross adds that we add to the P&L is a natural development.

因此總體而言，從我們的角度來看，目前細分和組合非常平衡。我們也能夠增加新的批發合作夥伴。因此總體而言，要實現我們的 2025 年目標，就需要在零售和批發之間採取非常平衡的方法，並利用所有細分市場。因此，一方面，該實例中的 ARPU 組合受到家庭優惠的推動。但另一方面，我們在損益表中增加的後付費總增加價值的不同組成也是自然的發展。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

We have time for one last question, please.

我們還有時間回答最後一個問題。

James Ratzer, New Street Research.

詹姆斯‧拉澤 (James Ratzer)，New Street Research。

Yes. Good morning. Thank you very much indeed for taking the question. So I'd like to add my welcome to Marc as well. And I have two questions, please. The first one, Marc, on your strategic review, I've heard comments about kind of potentially building scale and also deleveraging the balance sheet, which -- I mean, building scale, in particular, to me, could involve potentially more M&A in future.

是的。早安.非常感謝您回答這個問題。因此我也想對馬克表示歡迎。我有兩個問題。第一個問題，馬克，關於你的策略評估，我聽到了一些關於潛在擴大規模和去槓桿化資產負債表的評論，對我來說，擴大規模尤其可能涉及未來更多的併購。

So I was just trying to think about the third element of this, which was returns to shareholders. And in particular, how you saw that element of the capital allocation over the next, say, two to three years, in particular, with asset disposals coming in, do you see the scope for any increase in shareholder distributions above the 0.3 dividend that's already being paid out?

所以我只是試著思考這其中的第三個要素，那就是股東回報。具體來說，您如何看待未來兩到三年的資本配置要素，特別是隨著資產處置的進行，您是否認為股東分配有可能超過已支付的 0.3% 的股息？

And then the second question, maybe this is more one for Laura, but is on the free cash flow guidance you've given for this year. So I was wondering if we could dig into that a bit more specifically because I understand that, obviously, it's on the same perimeter basis of 2024. But at the same time, the facts have changed.

然後第二個問題，也許這更像是勞拉的問題，是關於你今年給出的自由現金流指導。所以我想知道我們是否可以更具體地深入探討這個問題，因為我知道，顯然，它與 2024 年的周長基礎相同。但同時，事實已經改變了。

You have now sold Argentina, and given Peru is in the insolvency proceedings, my understanding is you won't be paying interest on the Peruvian bonds, and also you won't be making those tax payments or the extraordinary tax payments in Peru. So therefore, I was wondering if you could give us kind of restated guidance for 2025 free cash flow to specifically take into account the known impacts for this year, i.e., Argentina being sold and none of those extraordinary payments in Peru. Thank you.

現在你已經賣掉了阿根廷，而鑑於秘魯正處於破產程序中，我的理解是你不會支付秘魯債券的利息，也不會在秘魯繳納那些稅款或非常稅金。因此，我想知道您是否可以為我們提供 2025 年自由現金流的重新陳述指導，以特別考慮今年已知的影響，即阿根廷被出售並且秘魯沒有任何特別支付。謝謝。

Thank you, James, for your welcome. With regards to the strategic review, one of the -- I'd say one of the essential elements will be what is our financial strategy that accompanies our strategic conclusions, and the financial strategy will have a lot to do with, of course, capital allocation, dividend distribution and the other elements you mentioned. It is way, way too early for me to share any specifics because we are going to conduct the capital review.

謝謝詹姆斯的熱情歡迎。關於策略評估，我認為其中一個基本要素是與我們的策略結論相伴隨的財務策略，當然，財務策略與資本配置、股利分配以及您提到的其他要素有很大關係。現在分享具體細節還為時過早，因為我們即將進行資本審查。

What I will say is that I am very, very respectful with regards to our strengths, our history and our way of doing things. We are, of course, going to continue improving, and I come with ambition, but I think I am -- I come with a humble ambition and very, very respectful with regards to our markets, our know-how and what is achievable. And within this context, we will conduct our strategic review, and that will include what our financial strategy is. But unfortunately, I can't really say much more at this stage, James.

我想說的是，我非常非常尊重我們的優勢、我們的歷史和我們的做事方式。當然，我們會繼續改進，我帶著雄心壯志而來，但我認為——我帶著謙遜的雄心而來，並且非常非常尊重我們的市場、我們的專業知識和可以實現的目標。在此背景下，我們將進行策略審查，其中包括我們的財務策略。但不幸的是，詹姆斯，目前我還不能說太多。

Hello. Yes, as you say, consolidation perimeter is changing as we speak. So guidance will need to be revisited for free cash flow with these impacts. But having said that, let me give you a broad picture that Hispam geographies are as a whole positive free cash flow contributors. Some are not, some are, and they are -- they have been contributing positively in free cash flow prior to contingency.

你好。是的，正如您所說，整合範圍正在改變。因此，考慮到這些影響，需要重新審視自由現金流的指導。不過話雖如此，讓我給你一個大致的印象，那就是 Hispam 地區整體上對自由現金流的貢獻是正面的。有些不是，有些是，而且它們在應急之前一直對自由現金流做出積極貢獻。

So therefore, I touched on that point. For the time being, we have included Peru business as usual. And as you say, if the process we have filed on Monday, is authorized, we will not be paying in the short term the SUNAT payments, as you rightly mentioned. There will be other uncertainty related to the business and their filing process. There will be some working capital elements, but we will update you at the due time also Argentina has just happened on Monday, I mean, literally three days ago, there's going to be probably more portfolio optimization coming, but please take as a whole that free cash flow is positive to neutral contributor prior to contingencies.

因此，我談到了這一點。目前，我們已將秘魯業務納入正常範圍。正如您所說，如果我們週一提起的訴訟獲得授權，我們將不會在短期內支付 SUNAT 款項，正如您所正確提到的那樣。與業務及其備案流程相關的其他不確定性還會存在。會有一些營運資金要素，但我們會在適當的時候向您更新，此外，阿根廷事件剛剛在周一發生，我的意思是，就在三天前，可能會有更多的投資組合優化，但請整體考慮，在意外事件之前，自由現金流對中性貢獻者是積極的。

And in any case, let me focus on 2025 from things that are not changing, which is the core businesses. And the core businesses are being very strong in 2024, as you have been in the delivery of the results and the guidance delivery. And that moving parts for 2025, we are guiding for growing operating cash flow in organic terms. And that's going to come from the Spain growing EBITDA and declining CapEx, Germany stable EBITDA and declining CapEx. Brazil definitely growing operating cash flow. Working capital has been rather neutral in 2024 when it usually has a positive contribution. So we should expect a positive contribution in 2025.

無論如何，讓我把重點放在 2025 年那些不會改變的事情上，也就是核心業務。由於您一直致力於實現成果和提供指導，因此核心業務在 2024 年將會非常強勁。針對 2025 年的活動部分，我們將指導以有機方式增加營運現金流。這將源於西班牙 EBITDA 成長和資本支出下降，以及德國 EBITDA 穩定和資本支出下降。巴西的經營現金流肯定在成長。2024 年營運資本相當中性，而其通常都會產生正面貢獻。因此，我們應該期待 2025 年能有正面的貢獻。

Lease payments is going to be less effective because there's less increase in volume, also lower inflation, interest cost, super stable as the case it's been. We will continue optimizing taxes. So I'm very aware that Spain brings some uncertainty. We will give you update as soon as this settles because we are also in the process of Colombia. I mean some things may come, but I also want to stress the strength of the core free cash flow as pillar and the strength of the other financial items that we will continue managing in the right way.

租賃付款的效率將會降低，因為數量成長較少，通貨膨脹率也較低，利息成本也一直非常穩定。我們將繼續優化稅收。所以我非常清楚西班牙帶來了一些不確定性。一旦解決這個問題，我們會立即向您通報最新情況，因為我們也處於哥倫比亞的進程中。我的意思是有些事情可能會發生，但我也想強調核心自由現金流的實力作為支柱，以及我們將繼續以正確的方式管理的其他財務項目的實力。

Thank you. I mean just thinking about the free cash flow guidance for this year, if Argentina sale is probably broadly neutral with cash deconsolidated, but some interest payment saves. But I mean, if Peru could be, I don't know what you had in the budget for this year, but maybe negative EUR100 million or EUR200 million outflow for these tax payments and interest on the bonds there. So does that mean free cash flow could be close to EUR2.8 billion if the Peruvian insolvency goes through?

謝謝。我的意思是，只考慮今年的自由現金流指引，如果阿根廷的銷售額在現金非合併的情況下可能大致保持中性，但會節省一些利息支付。但我的意思是，如果秘魯可能的話，我不知道今年的預算是多少，但這些稅收和債券利息的支出可能有負 1 億歐元或 2 億歐元。那麼，這是否意味著，如果秘魯破產，自由現金流可能接近 28 億歐元？

You are asking me for giving you a new guidance, I'd rather stick to our guidance of EUR2.6 billion perimeter equal. We haven't provided in the past detail of every open Hispam free cash flow. So we are not going to do that at the moment. There will be moving parts, and we will update you as soon as we can and we settle the portfolio, we have the authorization of the process in Peru, many things have to happen.

您要求我給您新的指導，我寧願堅持我們的 26 億歐元週長等額指導。我們過去並未提供每個開放的 Hispam 自由現金流的詳細資訊。因此我們目前不打算這麼做。會有活動的部分，我們會盡快向您更新，我們會解決投資組合，我們在秘魯有流程的授權，很多事情都必須發生。

But we didn't provide specificity on free cash flow of Argentina or Peru in the past, and we plan to do the same and treat Hispam as a whole and revisit the guidance, but please take into account the strong pillars I mentioned on the other part of the business and the neutral to positive impact from Hispam as a whole pre contingencies.

但是我們過去並沒有提供阿根廷或秘魯自由現金流的具體信息，我們計劃也這樣做，將 Hispam 作為一個整體來對待並重新審視指導，但請考慮我在業務的其他部分提到的強大支柱以及 Hispam 作為一個整體在應急前產生的中性到積極的影響。

Got it. Thank you very much.

知道了。非常感謝。

At this time, no further questions will be taken.

目前，我們不接受任何其他提問。

Thank you, everybody, for your warm welcome and questions. We hope that we have provided some useful insights for you. I look forward to our continuing working relationship. Should you still have any further questions, we kindly ask you to contact our Investor Relations department. Good morning, and good Thursday to you all. Thank you.

謝謝大家的熱烈歡迎與提問。我們希望為您提供一些有用的見解。我期待我們繼續保持合作關係。如果您還有其他問題，請聯絡我們的投資者關係部門。早上好，祝大家星期四愉快。謝謝。

Telefónica's January-December 2024 results conference call is over. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

Telefónica 2024 年 1 月至 12 月業績電話會議已經結束。現在您可以斷開線路了。謝謝。