Telefonica SA (TEF) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. And welcome to Telefonica's third quarter 2025 results. I'm Torsten Achtmann from Investor Relations. Before proceeding, let me mention that the financial information contained in this document has been prepared under international financial reporting standards as adopted by the European Union. This financial information is unaudited.

早安.歡迎閱讀西班牙電信2025年第三季業績報告。我是投資者關係部的托斯滕·阿赫特曼。在繼續之前，請允許我說明，本文件中包含的財務資訊是根據歐盟採用的國際財務報告準則編制的。此財務資訊未經審計。

This presentation, including the Q&A session may contain forward-looking statements and information relating to the Telefonica group. These statements may include financial or operating forecasts and estimates or statements regarding plans, objectives and expectations regarding different matters.

本次演講（包括問答環節）可能包含有關西班牙電信集團的前瞻性陳述和資訊。這些聲明可能包括財務或營運預測和估計，或有關不同事項的計劃、目標和預期的聲明。

All forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause the final developments and results to materially differ from those expressed or implied by such statements. We encourage you to review our publicly available disclosure documents filed with the relevant securities market regulators. If you don't have a copy of the relevant information, please contact Telefonica's Investor Relations team in Madrid.

所有前瞻性陳述都涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致最終發展和結果與此類陳述中明示或暗示的內容有重大差異。我們建議您查閱我們向相關證券市場監管機構提交的公開揭露文件。如果您沒有相關資訊的副本，請聯絡西班牙電信馬德里投資者關係團隊。

(Event Instructions)

（活動須知）

We'd appreciate if you would solely focus your questions on Q3 related topics. For any other inquiries outside the scope of the Q3 results, we encourage you to reserve those questions for the dedicated session during the Capital Markets Day. As a reminder, today's presentation is being recorded.

如果您能將問題集中在與第三季相關的主題上，我們將不勝感激。對於超出第三季業績範圍的其他任何疑問，我們建議您將這些問題留到資本市場日的專門會議環節提出。再次提醒，今天的演講正在錄製。

Now I'd like to pass the floor to our Chief Operating Officer, Emilio Gayo

現在我想把發言權交給我們的營運長艾米利奧·加約。

Now I'd like to pass the floor to our Chief Operating Officer, Emilio Gayo.

現在我想把發言權交給我們的營運長艾米利奧·加約。

Good morning and welcome to Telefonica's third quarter results. With me today are our Chief Financial and Control Officer, Laura Abasolo; Borja Ochoa, CEO of Telefonica Espana; Christian Gebara, CEO of Telefonica Brazil; Lutz Schüler, CEO of VMO2; Markus Rolle, CFO of Telefonica Deutschland. As we have the Capital Markets Day session right after this presentation, you will be disappointed to hear that we call -- that the call will be shorter than usual.

早安，歡迎收聽西班牙電信第三季業績報告。今天與我一同出席的有：我們的財務與控制長 Laura Abasolo；西班牙電信執行長 Borja Ochoa；巴西電信執行長 Christian Gebara；VMO2 執行長 Lutz Schüler；德國電信財務長 Markus Rolle。由於本次演講之後緊接著就是資本市場日會議，您可能會失望地聽到，這次電話會議的時間會比平常短。

I would like to highlight the consistent execution across businesses in the quarter. Therefore, today I will talk about the following. First, we are accelerating the portfolio transformation in HispAm. Second, commercial momentum is accelerating in our core markets with growth in fiber and mobile contract accesses. This is driven by low levels of churn and a superior NPS.

我想重點強調本季各業務部門執行力的一致性。因此，今天我將談談以下內容。首先，我們正在加速西班牙裔美國人投資組合的轉型。其次，隨著光纖和行動合約接取的成長，我們核心市場的商業動能正在加速發展。這得益於較低的客戶流失率和較高的淨推薦值 (NPS)。

Our total customer base has reached EUR350 million. Growth accelerated year on year in all main accesses in Spain, with promising demand for our digital ecosystem services in Spain and Brazil. Third, our network leadership is key to our steady performance. Fibre continues already reaching as EUR82.6 million premises passed, while our 5G coverage stands at 78%. And finally, we are working to increase efficiency across the group on a daily basis. Our industry leading CapEx to sell ratio ratio continue to decline.

我們的客戶總數已達 3.5 億歐元。在西班牙所有主要市場，我們的數位生態系統服務在西班牙和巴西的需求都十分可觀，並且實現了逐年加速成長。第三，我們的網路領先地位是我們穩定業績的關鍵。光纖網路已覆蓋 8,260 萬戶家庭，5G 網路覆蓋率達 78%。最後，我們正在努力提高集團日常營運效率。我們產業領先的資本支出與銷售額比率持續下降。

Moving to slide 3 for the overview of the third quarter key financials. We again deliver sustained organic growth. We are growing in revenues and EBITDA and EBITDAaL minus CapEx is back to growth in this quarter. As a result, for the first nine months of the year, we have been growing in key operating metrics. In reported times, the negative ForEx impact slowed down during this quarter. Free cash flow trends were affected by several issues which Laura will explain later in more detail. While net financial debt is down year-on-year.

接下來請看第 3 張投影片，了解第三季主要財務數據的概覽。我們再次實現了持續的內生成長。本季我們的營收和 EBITDA 均實現成長，扣除資本支出後的 EBITDAaL 也恢復了成長。因此，今年前九個月，我們在關鍵營運指標方面都實現了成長。據報告顯示，本季外匯市場的負面影響已放緩。自由現金流趨勢受到多種因素的影響，勞拉稍後會詳細解釋。雖然淨金融債務較去年同期下降。

Moving to slide 4. Performance in Spain was strong with accelerating growth in both customer and financials. Trading in the third quarter was again very positive, recording the highest convergent net gaps in more than six years and growth in all accesses. Convergent ARPU remained the best in the market, close to EUR90. This outstanding commercial performance reflects Telefonica Espana's premium market positioning and a smartly cemented commercial strategy.

切換到第4張投影片。西班牙市場表現強勁，客戶數量和財務數據均加速成長。第三季的交易情況再次非常積極，錄得六年多來最高的淨缺口收斂率，所有交易管道均實現成長。融合式 ARPU 仍然是市場上最好的，接近​​ 90 歐元。這項卓越的商業表現體現了西班牙電信的高端市場定位和穩固的商業策略。

Q3 revenue increase year-on-year thanks to sustained growth in service revenue. Retail revenue increased about 2% year-on-year, driven by customer growth, price upgrades, and solidarity sales growth in B2B. EBITDA improved its growth rate while EBITDAaL minus CapEx accelerated to almost 4% in the quarter. This shows our leading cash conversion in the domestic market. In summary, in Spain, we continue to leverage our solid fundamentals to deliver a stronger performance.

由於服務收入持續成長，第三季營收年增。零售收入較去年同期成長約 2%，主要得益於客戶成長、價格升級以及 B2B 領域的團結銷售成長。本季 EBITDA 成長率有所提高，而扣除資本支出後的 EBITDA 成長率加速至近 4%。這顯示了我們在國內市場領先的現金轉換率。總之，在西班牙，我們繼續利用我們穩固的基本面來實現更強勁的業績。

On the next next slide. Well, Telefonica Brazil delivered a strong set of results in Q3, maintaining robost growth in the most valuable segments and a solid financial performance. In mobile, ARPU continues to grow, driven by the higher adoption of 5G, now available in 683 cities. This proves the success of our selling strategy.

下一張投影片。西班牙電信巴西公司第三季業績表現強勁，在最有價值的細分市場保持了強勁成長，財務表現穩健。在行動領域，ARPU（每位用戶平均收入）持續成長，這主要得益於 5G 的普及，目前 5G 已在 683 個城市推出。這證明了我們銷售策略的成功。

Churn remains at low levels, around 1%. In fact, we continue the transformation to fiber. New connection were up 17%, driven by our convergent position Vivo Total. Revenue grew over 6% of pacing inflation thanks to growth in postpaid on fiber and increasing contribution for new businesses, representing 11% of total revenues.

人員流失率仍然很低，約 1%。事實上，我們正​​在繼續向纖維轉型。新增連線數成長了 17%，這主要得益於我們與 Vivo Total 的融合策略。由於光纖後付費業務的成長以及新業務貢獻的增加，收入成長超過通貨膨脹率 6%，佔總收入的 11%。

EBITDA growth continued to accelerate while EBITDAaL minus CapEx rose 14%. Margin expansion was supported by the first positive impacts of the migration to authorization. In summary, once again, we deliver very positive commercial and financial results in Brazil, just as in previous quarters.

EBITDA 成長持續加速，而扣除資本支出後的 EBITDA 成長了 14%。授權制度改革帶來的首批正面影響支撐了利潤率的擴張。總而言之，與前幾季一樣，我們在巴西再次取得了非常積極的商業和財務表現。

Moving to slide 6 to cover Germany, Telefonica Deutschland delivers solid's own brand momentum in the third quarter, even though the one on one migration continues to wait on financial results, the migration is very close to completion. We are growing both in fixed broadband and mobile contract net adds. This performance was supported by attractive auto promotion and the success of both the family and unlimited plans.

轉到第 6 張投影片，介紹德國的情況。儘管一對一遷移仍在等待財務結果，但 Telefonica Deutschland 在第三季度實現了穩健的自有品牌發展勢頭，而且遷移工作也已接近完成。我們在固定寬頻和行動合約業務的新增用戶方面都在成長。這項業績得益於極具吸引力的汽車促銷活動以及家庭套餐和無限流量套餐的成功。

Network quality remains a key strength with 5G coverage at 98%. We have also continued progress on densification. From a financial perspective, performance was weaker than expected across the main metrics. Revenue declined over 6% year-on-year and EBITDA dropped 9.5%. This was due to the one on one migration, which we could continue to wait on Q4 before starting to analyze in the course of the new year.

網路品質依然是一大優勢，5G覆蓋率達98%。我們在提高密度方面也取得了持續進展。從財務角度來看，各項主要指標的績效均低於預期。營收年減超過 6%，EBITDA 下降 9.5%。這是由於一對一遷移造成的，我們可以等到第四季再開始在新的一年中進行分析。

Nevertheless, underlying a EBITDA still grew thanks to our efficiency measures. In summary, despite the migration, the underlying operation showed resilience.

儘管如此，由於我們的效率提升措施，基本面 EBITDA 仍然實現了成長。總之，儘管經歷了遷移，但底層營運仍展現出了韌性。

Moving to slide 7. Virgin Media O2 improved its commercial results in Q3. The company remains focused on customer loyalty and protecting value in a challenging market. The launch of giffgaff broadband expanded our convergent offering, strengthening our position in the market.

切換到第7張投影片。Virgin Media O2 第三季商業業績有所改善。公司始終專注於客戶忠誠度和在充滿挑戰的市場中保護客戶價值。giffgaff寬頻的推出擴展了我們的融合產品組合，鞏固了我們在市場上的地位。

In B2B, we completed the merger to create O2 Daisy. This is a key milestone to improve our positioning -- in our position in the sub net. Revenue continues to be impacted by challenging market dynamics. Softer handset sales are lower nexfiber construction.

在 B2B 領域，我們完成了合併，創建了 O2 Daisy。這是提升我們在子網路中地位的關鍵里程碑。營收持續受到充滿挑戰的市場動態的影響。較軟的手機銷量較低，因為其採用的是NexFiber結構。

However, when we exclude the combination of handset sales, nexfiber construction, and B2B with the completion of the O2 Daisy transaction, guided revenue remain virtually stable year-on-year. In addition, guided EBITDA improved its year-on-year trend to 2.7% thanks to the reduction in operating expenses. All in all, Virgin Media O2 continues to enhance convergence, expand its network, and drive operational efficiencies to support future profitable growth.

然而，當我們排除手機銷售、nexfiber 建設和 B2B 業務以及 O2 Daisy 交易完成等因素後，預計收入將基本保持同比穩定。此外，由於營運費用的減少，預計 EBITDA 年成長率改善至 2.7%。總而言之，Virgin Media O2 將繼續加強整合，擴展其網絡，並提高營運效率，以支持未來的獲利成長。

Moving to slide 8. In Hispam, we continue to make progress on the portfolio optimization. We completed the sales of Telefonica Uruguay and Telefonica Ecuador in October, and Telefonica Colombia will be in the coming months. Organically, we are delivering growth in contract and fiber accesses. In financial terms, revenue declined in the third quarter, but the EBITDA improved its trends compared with previous quarters.

切換到第8張投影片。在Hispam，我們持續推進投資組合優化工作。我們已於 10 月完成了對 Telefonica Uruguay 和 Telefonica Ecuador 的出售，Telefonica Colombia 的出售將在未來幾個月內完成。我們正透過自身努力，在合約和光纖接入方面實現成長。從財務角度來看，第三季營收有所下降，但與前幾季相比，EBITDA 的趨勢有所改善。

I will now hand over to Laura for the main financial topics and ESG.

接下來我將把主要財務話題和ESG（環境、社會及公司治理）部分交給勞拉。

Thank you, Emilio. Thank you Emilio, and good morning, everyone. Let me start explaining you our 2025 guidance and dividend. Given our solid operational performance and growth in the first nine months, we confirm our guidance of revenue, EBITDA and EBITDAal minus cap growth with a CapEx to sales ratio below 12.5% in 2025. We reiterate also our EUR0.30 dividend per share in cash for the year.

謝謝你，埃米利奧。謝謝你，艾米利奧，大家早安。讓我先來解釋一下我們2025年的業績指引和分紅狀況。鑑於我們前九個月穩健的營運表現和成長，我們確認我們對 2025 年收入、EBITDA 和 EBITDA-減去資本增長的預期，同時資本支出與銷售額比低於 12.5%。我們重申，本年度每股派發 0.30 歐元現金股利。

We are updating our free cash flow expectations for the year to around EUR1.9 billion and as a consequence we expect a slightly higher leverage in 2025 versus the decline previously. Let me go straight into explaining our current 2025 free cash flow expectations.

我們將今年的自由現金流預期上調至約 19 億歐元，因此我們預計 2025 年的槓桿率將略高於先前的下降水準。接下來我將直接解釋我們目前對 2025 年自由現金流的預期。

As we approach year end, we have more clarity on [Hispam] events. We were expecting a tax refund and the collection of a military litigation of around in combination EUR0.4 billion for this year. The refund has not occurred yet and we now expect it for next year and for the litigation we have agreed a three year payment from '25 to '27.

隨著年底臨近，我們對[Hispam]事件有了更清晰的了解。我們預計今年將收到一筆退稅款項和一筆軍事訴訟賠償金，總額約 4 億歐元。退款尚未到賬，我們預計明年才能到賬。至於訴訟費用，我們已同意從 2025 年到 2027 年分三年支付。

Perimeter is also impacting beyond the effect of discontinuing the company result. We accelerated the execution and exited five out of eight Hispam countries so far, and as we close the operations, we are seeing all induced impacts.

Perimeter 的影響不僅限於公司業績終止的影響。我們加快了執行速度，目前已退出八個西班牙語國家中的五個，隨著業務的結束，我們正在看到所有由此產生的影響。

As we accelerate the Hispam the exit of Hispam, we are managing those full impacts lower scale benefits at our purchasing unit, the closure of our Hispam financial subsidiaries, the exit of tech Hispam, among others. We are working to concentrate most impacts in 2025 which will flow through free cash flow from continuing operations while in reality this is more the cost attached to exit the region. Related to Hispam, also our expectations for working capital have changed, and we foresee a worse working capital contribution versus our initial expectations.

隨著我們加速 Hispam 的退出，我們正在應對 Hispam 退出帶來的全面影響，包括採購部門規模效益的降低、Hispam 金融子公司的關閉、Hispam 技術部門的退出等等。我們正努力將大部分影響集中在 2025 年，這些影響將透過持續經營的自由現金流體現出來，但實際上，這更像是退出該地區的相關成本。與 Hispam 相關，我們對營運資金的預期也發生了變化，我們預計營運資金貢獻將低於我們最初的預期。

Germany performance is challenging. On one hand, B2C revenue continues to consistently deliver growth despite a more competitive environment. On the other hand, B2P free cash flow loss impacts accelerates. Q3 told us that full year performance would be worse than originally expected. We took immediate action and we will explain the strategic plan for Germany later on today.

德國隊的表現令人挑戰。一方面，儘管市場競爭日益激烈，B2C收入仍持續成長。另一方面，B2P自由現金流損失的影響加速加劇。Q3 報告顯示，全年業績將比原先預期更差。我們已立即採取行動，稍後將解釋針對德國的戰略計劃。

Finally, year-on-year coms are difficult. FX negative impact, restructuring from organization changes and a less positive one-offs such as some infraset sales stop under a more industrial approach. In comparison with 2024, free cash flow was very positively affected by EUR288 million cash from 5G CapEx subsidies received the third quarter last year. And a EUR211 million tax refund in the same period.

最後，同比數據很難得。外匯負面影響、組織變革帶來的重組以及一些不太積極的一次性事件（例如，在更工業化的方法下停止一些基礎設施銷售）。與 2024 年相比，自由現金流受到去年第三季收到的 2.88 億歐元 5G 資本支出補貼的正面影響。同期也獲得了2.11億歐元的退稅。

With all these moving parts, we see free cash flow for the year now more in the EUR1.5 billion, EUR1.9 billion range, but it is worth mentioning that facing impacts will revert and Hispam full transition is being coupled with value accretive deals on top of leading to a simpler and more predictable portfolio with most of free cash flow midterm coming from Europe and Brazil.

考慮到所有這些變數，我們預計今年的自由現金流將在 15 億歐元至 19 億歐元之間，但值得一提的是，這些影響將會逆轉，Hispam 的全面轉型正與增值交易相結合，這將使投資組合更加簡單和可預測，中期大部分自由現金流將來自歐洲和巴西。

In this slide I will drive you through through the first nine months financial performance. Net financial debt stands at EUR28.2 billion in September and including the sale of Uruguay, Ecuador, and Colombia and the acquisition of the 50% of fiber Brazil, net financial debt reduces to EUR26.5 billion.

在這張投影片中，我將帶您了解前九個月的財務表現。截至9月份，淨金融債務為282億歐元；加上出售烏拉圭、厄瓜多爾和哥倫比亞的業務以及收購巴西光纖公司50%的股份，淨金融債務減少至265億歐元。

Free cash flow from continued operations amounted to EUR414 million in the first nine months. Year-on-year comes, as I say, were tough on some positive effects last year. FX moves had also an impact on the reported operating cash flow. Working capital consumption was slightly higher and leases reflected seasonality.

前九個月，持續經營產生的自由現金流為 4.14 億歐元。正如我所說，與去年相比，情況比較艱難，去年也出現了一些正面影響。匯率波動也對報告的經營現金流產生了影響。營運資金消耗略高，租賃情況反映了季節性因素。

Our solid financial profile shows are ample liquidity with the maturities covered over the next 3 years and an average daily life of 10.5 years. The average cost of debt reduced 0.13 percentage points year-on-year to 3.44% in September. We'll continue with our prudent financial policy and free cash flow management, which are key priorities for us.

我們穩健的財務狀況表明，我們擁有充足的流動性，足以涵蓋未來 3 年的到期債務，平均每日期限為 10.5 年。9月平均債務成本較去年同期下降0.13個百分點至3.44%。我們將繼續奉行審慎的財務政策和自由現金流管理，這始終是我們工作的首要任務。

Moving to slide 12 now we turn to sustainability. This quarter I'm pleased to highlight the recent signing of a 10 year PPA in the UK together with an additional PPA in Germany coming into operation. These long-term agreements permit financial predictability and operational resilience exemplifying our ESG approach which is focused on reducing risk and generating value.

現在我們來看第 12 張投影片，談談永續性。本季我很高興地宣布，我們最近在英國簽署了一份為期 10 年的購電協議，同時在德國也簽署了一份購電協議，該協議即將生效。這些長期協議能夠確保財務可預測性和營運韌性，體現了我們以降低風險和創造價值為重點的 ESG 方法。

And now we hand back to Emilio who will wrap up.

現在我們把鏡頭交還給艾米利奧，讓他做最後的總結。

To conclude before we open for the question, we continue to be focused on executing our plan for 2025. As Laura just explained, and despite an updated Free Cash Flow outlook for the year, we are maintaining consistent operating performance in our core markers, allowing us to reiterate our operating guidance for the year.

在正式回答問題之前，我想總結一下，我們將繼續專注於執行我們的 2025 年計劃。正如勞拉剛才解釋的那樣，儘管我們對今年的自由現金流預期進行了更新，但我們在核心市場保持了穩定的經營業績，因此我們重申了今年的經營指導。

Germany's underlying performance continues to be resilient. Brazil posted strong growth in local currency, and Spain recorded very robust KPIs and growth across the Board. The UK has delivered a strong growth in a EBITDA on Uruguay's perimeter. Our dividend committed for 2025 is also confirmed. And finally we continue with asset disposal in Hispam, a process that is ongoing and will finalize -- we expect in the next coming years.

德國經濟的整體表現依然穩健。巴西以本國貨幣計價實現了強勁成長，西班牙各項關鍵績效指標和各項指標均實現了非常穩健的成長。英國在烏拉圭週邊地區實現了強勁的 EBITDA 成長。我們已確認2025年承諾發放的股利。最後，我們將繼續進行 Hispam 的資產處置，這是一個正在進行的過程，預計將在未來幾年內完成。

Thank you very much for your attention.

非常感謝您的關注。

We are now ready to take your questions. (Event Instuctions)

現在我們可以回答你們的問題了。（活動說明）

Thank you, it's Josh Mills here from BMP Paribas. It is related to Q3, but given the moving parts in free cash flow, I just wanted to clarify whether the EUR400 million free cash flow dropping out of the FY25 free cash for a number is now all going to be taken into account in the 2026 year. And if so, is that EUR400 million, EUR300 million included within the guidance of EUR2.9 billion, to EUR3 billion which you've laid out. Thanks.

謝謝，我是來自 BMP Paribas 的 Josh Mills。雖然這與第三季有關，但考慮到自由現金流的變動因素，我只是想澄清一下，2025 財年自由現金流中減少的 4 億歐元是否都會在 2026 年計入。如果是這樣，那麼這 4 億歐元或 3 億歐元是否包含在您提出的 29 億歐元至 30 億歐元的指導範圍內？謝謝。

Okay, thank you Josh. I'm going to hand over to Laura to answer your question.

好的，謝謝你，喬希。接下來我將把回答問題的任務交給蘿拉。

Yes, thank you, Josh, And you're right, that's a question for later, but anyhow, I will answer it. Our guidance always have a lot of moving parts and we have as the heart the operating cash flow after leases and then we have both negative and positive one-offs. But, due that 2025 it's a face in effect indeed we expect the tax refund in Spain for 2026 and in the case of [Millicom] we reach an agreement for cashing it between '25 and '27, so we'll be distributed along those years.

是的，謝謝你，喬許。你說得對，這個問題以後再說，不過無論如何，我會回答的。我們的指導方針總是涉及許多變數，其核心是租賃後的經營現金流，此外還有負面和正面的一次性因素。但是，由於 2025 年確實是一個實際存在的問題，我們預計 2026 年將在西班牙收到退稅，而對於 [Millicom]，我們已達成協議，將在 2025 年至 2027 年之間兌現這筆款項，因此我們將在這些年中分期付款。

Thank you. I think Mathieu, was the next one over here and then I think going on the back again.

謝謝。我認為馬蒂厄是下一個過來的，然後我想他又回到了後面。

Thank you. Hi, Mathieu Robilliard from Barclays. I have two questions. First, on Germany. You had the soft target to stabilize the EBITDA in 2025. It seems trends remain challenging. So I was wondering if that soft target still hold, and also I was intrigued to see that the ARPU of O2 postpaid declined a bit more, so I wanted to understand what was behind that.

謝謝。您好，我是巴克萊銀行的馬修‧羅比利亞德。我有兩個問題。首先，我們來看德國。你們的目標是在 2025 年穩定 EBITDA，這是一個比較容易實現的目標。趨勢似乎依然充滿挑戰。所以我想知道這個軟目標是否仍然成立，另外，我也很感興趣地看到 O2 後付費用戶的 ARPU 進一步下降，所以我想了解背後的原因。

And then more generically about free cash flow so I think you're showing the slide that the disposals of Latin America have a negative impact on the free cash flow is that also something that we should see in 2026 for some of the other disposals? Thank you.

然後更籠統地談談自由現金流，我認為您在幻燈片中展示的拉丁美洲資產處置對自由現金流產生了負面影響，這種情況在2026年其他一些資​​產處置中也會發生嗎？謝謝。

Regarding the Germany, we will explain, in the CMD about the '26, but just to give some color about your question, just to know the one on one migration during this quarter was accelerated, more than expected. We have a lot of efficiency measures that taking longer than we expected in a very challenging market. This efficiency measure will take the next coming quarters, the result that we are expecting.

關於德國的情況，我們將在 '26 的 CMD 中進行解釋，但為了回答您的問題，需要說明的是，本季度一對一的移民速度比預期的要快。在競爭非常激烈的市場環境下，我們採取了許多提高效率的措施，但這些措施的實施時間比我們預期的要長。這項提高效率的措施將在接下來的幾個季度內取得我們預期的結果。

It's true that the market is very challenging. We can see in the hands of sales that is a really weaker trends. However, we are seeing a business, underlying business that is working a good performance, and it gives us the basis in order to think in recovery for the next coming quarters.

市場確實充滿挑戰。從銷售數據可以看出，這是一個非常疲軟的趨勢。然而，我們看到公司的基本面表現良好，這為我們思考未來幾季的復甦奠定了基礎。

For the second question I hand over to Laura.

第二個問題交給勞拉回答。

Thank you for the question, Mathieu. On Hispam, Hispam has been nurtured into our operations for more than 25 years. So when we say we are selling some companies is not just the selling of the companies. First, it impacts the remaining companies, mostly in one example is working capital. So our ability to do working capital initiatives now in Chile is much more difficult or it's under much worse conditions.

謝謝你的提問，馬修。Hispam 已經融入我們的營運超過 25 年了。所以，當我們說要出售一些公司時，指的不僅僅是出售這些公司本身。首先，它會影響剩餘的公司，例如，最主要的是營運資金。因此，我們現在在智利開展營運資金計畫的能力要困難得多，或者說，我們面臨的條件要糟糕得多。

Now, to give you an example and a. We are also closing our factoring companies there, the ones we had in JV with with the Spanish banks for instance, we used to do some reverse factoring in Chile with those factoring companies that now we have to do with third parties or we cannot do at all. Now, so the first block is the impact on the remaining OBS and then there's other -- there's many other. And as I said, as we are exiting, we have less volume for purchases and then we have less impact in our purchasing subsidiary or now we have to act also in the tech LatAM.

現在，我舉個例子。我們也在關閉我們在那裡的保理公司，例如我們與西班牙銀行合資的那些公司，我們過去曾與這些保理公司在智利進行一些反向保理業務，但現在我們必須與第三方合作，或者根本無法進行。所以，第一個模組是對剩餘 OBS 的影響，然後還有其他影響——還有很多其他影響。正如我所說，隨著我們退出市場，我們的採購量減少了，因此我們對採購子公司的影響也減少了，或者現在我們還必須在拉丁美洲的科技領域採取行動。

To your specific question we are trying to con to concentrate most of the impacts in 2025 there will be some more impacts in '26, but there will be no material and in any case they are embedded in the projections we will share at the Capital Market Day. So first, it's well beyond just exiting a few countries. We really need to fulfill all the transition plan to get out of the region, so to say, and second, we are doing a big effort to concentrate more impact in this year and whatever comes next should be already included in our projections.

針對您提出的具體問題，我們正在努力將大部分影響集中在 2025 年，2026 年還會有一些影響，但不會造成實質影響，而且無論如何，這些影響都已包含在我們將在資本市場日分享的預測中。所以首先，這遠遠不只是退出幾個國家這麼簡單。我們必須完成所有過渡計劃才能離開該地區，其次，我們正在努力集中精力在今年產生更大的影響，而接下來的任何事情都應該已經納入我們的預測之中。

Yes, I missed the answer. No, related to the German ARPU is true that this, we are in a challenging market as I mentioned, we are starting to see sign as a more rational market, but it's true that it is too early to consider that this is a change in the trend.

是的，我答錯了。不，就德國的ARPU而言，確實如此。正如我所提到的，我們身處在一個充滿挑戰的市場，我們開始看到市場變得更加理性的跡象，但現在就認為這是趨勢的改變還為時過早。

Anyway, I think, ARPU and net adds is a combination in the case in Germany that this is the underlying business and in the mobile business, and we consider the trend is positive, any case.

總之，我認為，在德國，ARPU 和淨新增用戶數是行動業務的基礎，我們認為這一趨勢是正面的。

But there in the middle there I think it's Andrew.

但我覺得中間那個人是安德魯。

Yeah, morning everyone. It's Andrew Lee from Goldman Sachs. I just had a couple of questions on the free cash flow, in the quarter and for the full year. There obviously is -- there are implications for the guidance of the midterm, but we can keep it to this year.

是的，大家早安。我是高盛的安德魯李。我有一些關於本季和全年自由現金流的問題。顯然，這會對中期選舉的指導方針產生影響，但我們可以將其限制在今年。

Firstly, on the German side of things, you mentioned there's a bigger dragon free cash flow than you anticipated for the full year. That was one of the reasons, I think, for why you downgraded your free cash flow for this year. What exactly is going on there? Can you just give us a bit of color, I think you mentioned B2B being a bigger drag and maybe there's more free cash flow generation in that part of the business, but just help us understand the difficulties that you're having in Germany from a free cash flow perspective.

首先，關於德國方面，您提到全年自由現金流比您預期的要多。我認為，這就是你將今年自由現金流下調預期的原因之一。那裡到底發生了什麼事？能否給我們詳細介紹一下情況？我想您曾提到 B2B 業務拖累較大，而且這部分業務可能產生更多的自由現金流，但請您從自由現金流的角度幫助我們了解您在德國遇到的困難。

And then secondly, I think another element of the free cash flow drag is on working capital and you're now understand going to more of a kind of neutral working capital profile going forwards. So what's happening in terms of working capital that's changed your perspective on that for your 2025 please. Thank you.

其次，我認為自由現金流拖累的另一個因素是營運資本，而你現在應該明白，未來將朝向更中性的營運資本狀況發展。那麼，就營運資金而言，發生了哪些變化，從而改變了您對2025年的看法？謝謝。

I will take both questions. Thank you, Andrew. On the free cash for expectations, I wouldn't say there's a huge impact of Germany. We -- it's a collection of different impacts and half of it has to do with facing and the other four has to do with the Spain induced, impacts, and then you have Germany but also Brazil and Brazil are -- Spain and Brazil are are doing better and they you have a different other things like restructuring or things not being done and all of that and also Germany it's a part of that.

我會回答這兩個問題。謝謝你，安德魯。就預期的自由現金流而言，我認為德國的影響並不大。我們——這是一系列不同影響的集合，其中一半與應對有關，另外四分之三與西班牙引發的影響有關，然後還有德國，還有巴西，西班牙和巴西的情況要好一些，他們還有其他一些事情，比如重組或一些事情沒有完成等等，德國也是其中的一部分。

Maybe I missed the spell is B2P not B2B I mean B2P is the analyzed impact and that is being accelerated in the second half of the year. So Q3 had very little impact from analyzed. Q4 is going to have almost non impact, and that will be fading away towards '26 and will be completely comparable in 2027.

也許我錯過了重點，是 B2P 而不是 B2B。我的意思是，B2P 是分析得出的影響，而這種影響在下半年正在加速發展。因此，第三季受到的分析影響非常小。第四季幾乎沒有影響，到 2026 年這種影響將逐漸消失，到 2027 年將完全可比擬。

So regarding the free cash flow of Germany, it's some of what Emilio. It's all linked to what Emilio said, no. I mean, on the positive side, B2B is growing consistently as you've seen it's a more competitive environment, but we have delivered a strong result quarter after quarter. B2P, as I said, has accelerated and we have a very important impact in free cash flow in the second half of the year.

所以關於德國的自由現金流，這其中一部分是艾米利歐的觀點。這一切都和艾米利歐說的話有關，沒錯。我的意思是，從積極的方面來看，B2B業務一直在持續成長，正如你所看到的，這是一個競爭更加激烈的環境，但我們每個季度都取得了強勁的業績。正如我所說，B2P業務已經加速發展，這將對下半年的自由現金流產生非常重要的影響。

Efficiency you've seen with doing a lot of efficiency improvements and more to come but it don't -- it doesn't have a linear a linear effect yet. So we are seeing those but not to the to the to the full extent and all of that is leading to a free cash flow worse than expected. But it's the combination and we have a strong plan in place we will talk about later.

你已經看到，透過進行許多效率改進，效率得到了提高，而且未來還會有更多改進，但是——它還沒有產生線性效果。所以我們看到了這些現象，但還沒有完全顯現出來，所有這些都導致​​自由現金流比預期更糟。但關鍵在於綜合運用，我們已經制定了一個強而有力的計劃，稍後會詳細介紹。

And then working capital. Working capital in the past has had a positive contribution in some years larger than others, depending on its business long-term contracts, how you pay them, and so on and CapEx seasonality. As we are a smaller company now, we will have a less working capital contribution. It was a more positive in Hispam. So as we take Hispam out that will have a lower working capital contribution. So we will share with you in the Capital Markets Day how we see that in the future, yes. But definitely for '25 we expect also a lower working capital contribution that originally expected. Thank you, Andrew.

然後是營運資金。過去，營運資金的貢獻有好有壞，有的年份貢獻較大，有的年份貢獻較小，這取決於企業的長期合約、付款方式以及資本支出季節性等因素。由於我們現在是一家規模較小的公司，因此我們的營運資金投入也會減少。在西班牙語中，情況則較為正面。因此，剔除 Hispam 後，其營運資本貢獻將會降低。所以，我們會在資本市場日上與大家分享我們對未來的看法，是的。但可以肯定的是，對於 2025 年，我們預期營運資金投入也會低於最初的預期。謝謝你，安德魯。

Ladies, and gentleman over here to the right and then we move a bit forward together.

女士們，先生們，請到右邊來，然後我們一起往前走一點。

Yeah, it's me, Torsten. Yeah, okay, thank you. Good morning, Javier Barrachero, Kepler Cheuvreux. Just a couple of questions on the Spanish business in Q3. I see the retail business was I mean, has shown similar trends to previous quarters, but I mean, any comment on the balance volume value, and the competitive intensity would be welcome.

是的，是我，托斯滕。好的，謝謝。早安，Javier Barrachero，Kepler Cheuvreux。關於第三季西班牙業務，我還有幾個問題。我認為零售業務的趨勢與前幾季類似，但我很想聽聽有關交易量和市場競爭強度的評論。

And then also in Spain, the B2B. Okay, Laura, you've mentioned generally that B2B is going well. Just to hear also your view on in Spain, some of your rivals, telco rivals, are showing more ambitions to grow in the B2B business, and they've made good ingrowths, particularly with the public administration. So simply to have your comments on the dynamics in the B2B in Spain if you're feeling more pressure, more pricing pressure, more competitive pressure. Thank you.

在西班牙，還有 B2B。好的，勞拉，你之前提到過，B2B業務整體進展順利。也想聽聽您對西班牙的看法，您的一些競爭對手，特別是電信競爭對手，在 B2B 業務方面表現出更大的發展雄心，並且已經取得了良好的增長，尤其是在公共管理領域。所以，如果您感受到更大的壓力、更大的價格壓力、更大的競爭壓力，請就西班牙 B2B 市場的動態發表您的看法。謝謝。

Yes, regarding the first -- thank you, Javier for your question. Regarding the first question the balance between value and volume for us is the right balance and at the end the resources, the growth in the revenues and EBITDA even taking account when you have the -- when you change the mix of your volume, you can have some pressure on the ARPU.

是的，關於第一個問題——謝謝 Javier 的提問。關於第一個問題，對我們來說，價值和數量之間的平衡是正確的平衡，最終，資源、收入和 EBITDA 的成長，即使考慮到——當你改變你的銷售組合時，你可能會對 ARPU 造成一些壓力。

It doesn't means that your trends are not positive. We value these trends very positive in the Spanish market with the right combination between growth, churn, and ARPU. Then our expectation for the next quarter and following quarter, but something for the CMD is to maintain the strong performance in the retail business.

但這並不意味著你的發展趨勢不是正面的。我們認為這些趨勢對西班牙市場非常有利，因為成長、流失率和 ARPU 之間達到了合適的平衡。接下來，我們對下一季和下下一季的預期是，CMD需要維持零售業務的強勁表現。

In the case of B2B within the Telefonica, Spain has a very strong capabilities developed during the last years and then we expect to growth in data services in the similar path that we are doing today. We feel that -- of course, the competition can increase, but we feel comfortable with our capabilities and the way that we have we can compete in the market.

就西班牙電信 (Telefonica) 的 B2B 業務而言，西班牙在過去幾年中發展出了非常強大的能力，我們預計數據服務業務也將沿著與今天類似的路徑增長。我們認為——當然，競爭可能會加劇，但我們對自己的能力和方式充滿信心，相信我們能夠在市場上參與競爭。

Regarding the governance contracts, of course we expect to win as much as possible, but this is a competitive market and it's not easy sometimes to win it, but we see the winning rate that we are maintaining, the truth is that we are obtaining the result that we are looking for.

關於治理合同，我們當然希望盡可能多地贏得合同，但這是一個競爭激烈的市場，有時贏得合同並不容易，但我們看到我們保持的勝率，事實上，我們正​​在獲得我們所尋求的結果。

Let's take one here and then move over to there.

我們先拿這裡一個，然後再移到那裡去。

Thank you. It's Keval Khiroya from Deutsche Bank. I just want to come back to Germany. You've tried to explain that the solid -- that the core business is still quite solid, but when we look at the EBITDA trends of minus-2% in Q1, minus-6% in Q2, and minus-9.5% in Q3, appreciate most of that is driven by one on one. But can you just disaggregate if you exclude the one on one impact, what is happening to the EBITDA trends over those. Three quarters or at least over the nine months X one on one, I think that would help us understand what's happening to the core business.

謝謝。我是德意志銀行的 Keval Khiroya。我只想回德國。您已經嘗試解釋，核心業務依然相當穩健，但當我們看到 EBITDA 趨勢時，第一季下降了 2%，第二季下降了 6%，第三季下降了 9.5%，要知道這其中大部分是由一對一交易造成的。但是，如果排除一對一的影響，能否對 EBITDA 趨勢進行細分，看看這些影響會如何變化？我認為，至少在接下來的九個月裡，透過一對一的交流，可以幫助我們了解核心業務的現況。

Let me answer about the Germany. As I mentioned before, the underlying business in Germany, we think that we are quite -- we are doing performing very well and in fact the trends in EBITDA excluding the one on one migration is positive and we expect to maintain this performance as you know the one on one migration -- I explained before, the one on one migration wave during this quarter and we expect to recuperate the the next quarter -- the next year when the migration is -- will be behind us.

讓我來回答關於德國的問題。正如我之前提到的，我們在德國的基礎業務，我們認為我們表現得相當不錯——事實上，不計一對一遷移的影響，EBITDA 的趨勢是積極的，我們預計能夠保持這種業績。如你所知，一對一遷移——我之前解釋過，本季出現了一對一遷移浪潮，我們預計在下一季——也就是明年，當遷移浪潮過去之後——就能恢復過來。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Hello, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions, Fernando Abril from Alantra. We -- I think we have already asked about the B2B and B2C dynamics in Spain. My question is around the wholesale. I've seen that there is a decline of around, I think, 4% year-on-year in this quarter. That's softer decline compared to previous quarter, but still a decline, so I would like to better understand your dynamics, the different moving parts here and the prospects you see for going forward.

你好早安。感謝Alantra公司的Fernando Abril回答我的問題。我想我們已經詢問過西班牙的 B2B 和 B2C 動態了。我的問題是關於批發方面的。我注意到本季同比下降了大約 4%。與上一季相比，下滑幅度有所收窄，但仍然是下滑，所以我想更了解你們的動態、其中不同的變動因素以及你們對未來前景的看法。

And then second question, quick one on the debt there is I think it was EUR800 million impact on ForEx and other. So if you can elaborate a bit on this as well. Thank you.

第二個問題，關於債務問題，我認為它對外匯和其他方面的影響是 8 億歐元。如果您能再詳細闡述一下就更好了。謝謝。

Thank you, Fernando. Regarding the wholesales in Spain, as you mentioned, we are declining but this is declining that we expected and it's not different than our expectation. It has to be with different aspects, mainly with the contract that we signed during the last year, that give us sustainable business in a wholesale, but it has an impact during this year.

謝謝你，費爾南多。關於西班牙的批發業務，正如您所提到的，我們的業務正在下滑，但這與我們預期的下滑幅度一致，與我們的預期並無不同。這需要從各個方面入手，主要是我們去年簽署的合同，該合同為我們提供了可持續的批發業務，但這對今年產生了影響。

We expect to improve in this area because although the contracts will be in part during the next year too, we have opportunities to grow as the new marco regulation and the fiber pass that permit us to see better trends in the future coming coming quarters.

我們預計這方面會有所改善，因為儘管部分合約也將在明年到期，但隨著新的宏觀監管和光纖通行證的實施，我們有機會實現成長，這使我們能夠在未來幾個季度看到更好的發展趨勢。

And regarding free cash flow --

關於自由現金流--

The net debt, it's -- as I said, both we are reporting both post closing and which is lower as we need to include on the investment side be Brazil and in the investment side Uruguay and Ecuador that both were executed in the month of October and then Colombia. No, but I'm mentioning this because in the others we also have the finance spectrum of Colombia and that will be out, when we discontinue.

淨債務，正如我所說，我們報告的是交割後的情況，其中較低的是我們需要將投資方面巴西、烏拉圭和厄瓜多爾（這兩筆交易都是在 10 月份完成的）以及哥倫比亞都包括在內。不，但我提到這一點是因為在其他方面，我們也涵蓋了哥倫比亞的金融領域，當我們停止營運時，這些內容也會被刪除。

And the others is usually difference between accruals and payments. It's a whole -- I mean it's a many bits and pieces, no, but the largest amount will be FX, which is about more than EUR100 million and then as I said, the finance spectrum of Colombia and that will disappear with the discontinuation and the closing of the operation.

而其他方面通常是應計項目和支付項目之間的差額。這是一個整體——我的意思是，它由許多零碎的部分組成，不，但最大的部分將是外匯，大約超過 1 億歐元，然後正如我所說，還有哥倫比亞的金融領域，隨著業務的終止和關閉，這些都將消失。

Thank you. We have probably time for one more question. I've seen Fernando in the back.

謝謝。我們可能還有時間再問一個問題。我在後面看到了費南多。

Yeah. Hello Antonio Rodriguez from JB Capital. Just wanted to, you to elaborate a little bit more on a question from before on working capital. You were at the beginning of the year hoping for a kind of neutral working capital. The results so far are not there. You were explaining a bit, some of the reasons, but I would like to know, if you can please split how it's going to end the year, specifically the working capital and why, because obviously we're far away from that flat working capital. And the second one is for 2026 specifically what could we expect on that line? Thank you very much.

是的。您好，我是來自 JB Capital 的 Antonio Rodriguez。我想請您就之前關於營運資金的問題再詳細解釋一下。年初時，你曾希望獲得一種中性的營運資金。目前還沒有結果。您剛才解釋了一些原因，但我想知道，您能否詳細說明一下今年年底的財務狀況，特別是營運資本的情況以及原因，因為很明顯，我們離營運資本持平的目標還很遠。第二個問題具體針對 2026 年，我們能期待些什麼呢？非常感謝。

Yeah. Thank you thank you for the question. I do not recall we said it will be a flat contribution of working capital because we don't usually give a specific guidance per line. We just comment on how we see the different bits and pieces and the different items and usually our answer about working capital is that it has a working capital -- a positive working capital contribution and we give you the range that we had in the past, and the range in the past has moved from EUR200 million to in some given years even aEUR1 billion.

是的。謝謝你的提問。我不記得我們說過會以固定比例投入營運資金，因為我們通常不會對每個特定項目給予具體指引。我們只是評論我們如何看待不同的部分和不同的項目，通常我們對營運資本的回答是，它有營運資本——正的營運資本貢獻，我們會告訴你我們過去的情況，過去的範圍從 2 億歐元到某些年份甚至 10 億歐元。

So we usually said that we expect a positive, working capital, contribution and now it's going to be slightly lower than what we originally expected as I said, we have less management capacity, mainly in is -- and it doesn't, I mean it's just that it's much harder for us to get the correct terms to do some of the business as usual initiatives that would have done it a year ago.

所以我們通常說我們預計會有正的營運資金貢獻，但現在它會比我們最初預期的略低，正如我所說，我們的管理能力有所下降，主要是在——而且它不是，我的意思是，只是我們現在更難獲得合適的條款來開展一些一年前就能開展的常規業務舉措。

So but don't take that it was going to be flat because I don't think we ever said that is usually a positive contribution. And for 2026 if you don't mind, we will wait for the Capital Markets Day in which I will give a specific outlook rather than guidance of working capital for the next three years.

所以，但不要以為情況會一帆風順，因為我認為我們從來沒有說過這種情況，這通常是一個積極的信號。至於 2026 年，如果您不介意的話，我們將等到資本市場日，屆時我將給出未來三年營運資本的具體展望，而不是指導意見。

Perfect. Thank you. Let's do a quick one from Fernando in the back there. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。咱們從後面的費南多那裡快速拍一張。謝謝。

Yeah. Fernando Cordero from Santander, just a quick question on Telefonica Tech. Given that you have made a write down of close to EUR250 million in the quarter and also considering that momentum in B2B operational one just to understand the rationale of the write down.

是的。來自桑坦德的費爾南多·科爾德羅，關於西班牙電信技術，我有一個簡單的問題。鑑於您在本季度已提列近 2.5 億歐元的減損準備，並考慮到 B2B 營運的勢頭，僅是為了理解計提減損的理由。

Yeah. Every quarter we have to go through if there's any indication of any of our assets, being deteriorated. We did so and in the case of Telefonica Tech is UK and and Germany and it's a combination of several factors. The -- it's a combination of the expectations you have and also the fair value of those assets.

是的。每個季度我們都必須進行檢查，看看是否有任何跡象表明我們的任何資產正在貶值。我們確實這麼做了，以 Telefonica Tech 為例，該公司總部位於英國和德國，這是多種因素共同作用的結果。這——是你的預期以及這些資產的公允價值的結合。

So we have multiples of those companies have decreased. The expectations of revenue in the sectors those two companies work are also lower sector wise and also our projections for those companies were somehow below original expectations. So the combination of the three references work has also worsened a bit made us to to take a decision to continue because we already did something in at the end of 2024 to continue writing off some of the goodwill of those of those two companies, but it would be a combination of sector and own performance in those two specific countries plus some update on what assumptions.

所以，我們看到很多這類公司的業績都下滑了。這兩家公司所在產業的營收預期也較低，而且我們對這兩家公司的預測也低於最初的預期。因此，這三項參考工作的綜合情況也略有惡化，促使我們決定繼續進行，因為我們在 2024 年底已經採取了一些措施，繼續註銷這兩家公司的部分商譽，但這將是這兩個特定國家/地區的行業和自身業績的綜合結果，以及一些關於假設的更新。

Thank you very much, and I think now it's handed over to Emilio for the closing remarks.

非常感謝，現在請艾米利歐做總結發言。

Okay. Thank you very much for your question. As we mentioned at the beginning, we reiterate our guidance for 2020 -- operating guidance for 2025. We reiterate our commitment in the dividend of the 2025 and as far as some moving parts in the flow we expect for really strong performance in Q4 and in the overall year. Thank you very much again we will talk -- we will get your question in the CMD around the future in just a few minutes.

好的。非常感謝您的提問。正如我們在開頭提到的，我們重申我們對 2020 年的指導意見——以及對 2025 年的營運指導。我們重申對 2025 年分紅的承諾，至於一些不確定因素，我們預計第四季和全年業績將非常強勁。再次非常感謝，我們會盡快討論——我們會在幾分鐘後透過 CMD 處理您的問題。

Thank you Thank you.

謝謝。謝謝。