Telefonica SA (TEF) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Thank you for standing by, and welcome to Telefonica's January-September 2024 results conference call.

早安.感謝您的耐心等待，歡迎參加 Telefonica 2024 年 1 月至 9 月業績電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's conference is being recorded.

（操作員指示）提醒一下，今天的會議正在錄製中。

I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Adrián Zunzunegui, Global Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead sir.

我現在想將電話轉給投資人關係全球總監 Adrián Zunzunegui 先生。請先生繼續。

Good morning, and welcome to Telefonica conference call to discuss January-September 2024 results. I'm Adrian Zunzunegui from Investor Relations. Before proceeding. Let me mention that the financial information contained in this document has been prepared under international financial reporting standards as adopted by the European Union. This financial information is unaudited.

早安，歡迎參加 Telefonica 電話會議，討論 2024 年 1 月至 9 月的結果。我是投資人關係部的 Adrian Zunzunegui。在繼續之前。我要指出的是，本文件中包含的財務資訊是根據歐盟採用的國際財務報告標準編製的。該財務資訊未經審計。

This conference call and webcast including the Q&A session may contain forward-looking statements and information relating to the Telefonica Group. These statements may include financial or operating forecasts and estimates or statements regarding plans, objectives and expectations regarding different matters.

本次電話會議和網路廣播（包括問答環節）可能包含與西班牙電信集團相關的前瞻性陳述和資訊。這些陳述可能包括財務或營運預測和估計或有關不同事項的計劃、目標和期望的陳述。

All forward-looking statements involve risk and uncertainties that could cause the final developments and results to materially differ from those expressed or implied by such statements. We encourage you to review our publicly available disclosure documents filed with the relevant securities market regulators. If you don't have a copy of the relevant press release and the slides, please contact Telefonica's Investor Relations team in Madrid or London.

所有前瞻性陳述均涉及風險和不確定性，可能導致最終發展和結果與此類陳述明示或暗示的內容有重大差異。我們鼓勵您查看我們向相關證券市場監管機構提交的公開揭露文件。如果您沒有相關新聞稿和幻燈片的副本，請聯絡西班牙電信位於馬德里或倫敦的投資者關係團隊。

Now let me turn the call over to our Chief Operating Officer, Mr. Ángel Vilá.

現在讓我將電話轉給我們的營運長 Ángel Vilá 先生。

Thank you, Adrián. Good morning and welcome to Telefonica's third-quarter results conference call. With me today are Laura Abasolo, Markus Haas, Lutz Schüler, and Eduardo Navarro.

謝謝你，阿德里安。早安，歡迎參加西班牙電信第三季業績電話會議。今天與我在一起的有勞拉·阿巴索洛 (Laura Abasolo)、馬庫斯·哈斯 (Markus Haas)、盧茨·舒勒 (Lutz Schüler) 和愛德華多·納瓦羅 (Eduardo Navarro)。

Before going into the results presentation, we would like to express our condolences to the families of victims of recent flash floods in Spain and our gratitude to Telefonica teams who are working 24/7 to restore communications to all those affected. God bless them all.

在介紹結果之前，我們謹向西班牙近期山洪爆發的受害者家屬表示哀悼，並對西班牙電信團隊表示感謝，他們全天候 (24/7) 工作，以恢復所有受影響者的通信。上帝保佑他們所有人。

And now let us first walk you through the slides and we'll then be happy to take any questions.

現在，讓我們先引導您瀏覽投影片，然後我們將很樂意回答您的任何問題。

We are pleased to report solid Q3 results that prove strong operating and strategic progress across our key markets. Underlying performance remains strong.

我們很高興地報告第三季的強勁業績，證明我們在主要市場的營運和策略進展強勁。基本面表現依然強勁。

Spain delivered the best [methods] in six years with record low term and Brazil sustained its growth momentum across all key metrics in local currency.

西班牙提供了六年來最好的[方法]，創歷史新低，而巴西在以當地貨幣計算的所有關鍵指標上都保持了成長勢頭。

One of the quarter's key highlights is the acceleration of free cash flow growing by close to 90% in Q3 and 28% in nine months. And it's already above our target of more than 10% growth for the year beyond the expected backloaded, phasing our free cash flow benefited from our industry leading capital intensity of 12% up to September, reflecting optimized investments and enhanced operating leverage.

本季的主要亮點之一是自由現金流在第三季加速成長近 90%，在 9 個月內成長 28%。它已經超越了我們今年成長10% 以上的目標，超出了預期的回載，我們的自由現金流得益於截至9 月份行業領先的12% 資本密集度，反映出優化的投資和增強的營運槓桿。

I'm sorry, we invest more efficiently. We continue deploying next generation networks at pace with 5G coverage in our core markets reaching 71% and fiber to the home expanding to 82 million premises passed importantly, we made significant progress on near term catalysts across our core markets.

抱歉，我們的投資效率更高。我們繼續加快部署下一代網絡，核心市場的 5G 覆蓋率達到 71%，光纖到戶擴展到 8,200 萬個場所，重要的是，我們在核心市場的近期催化劑方面取得了重大進展。

In Spain. We strengthened wholesale visibility through today's announced definitive [Fibra] Agreement with Vodafone Seona and the long term fiber to the home, [Iru] signed with Mass Orange Brazil's migration to the authorization model is expected to complete in Q4.

在西班牙。我們透過今天宣布的與 Vodafone Seona 簽署的最終 [Fibra] 協議以及與 Mass Orange Brazil 簽署的長期光纖到戶 [Iru] 協議，增強了批發知名度。

In Germany, we enhance our wholesale position via the [Levia] contract renewal and new like agreement while expecting the update on the details of the spectrum extension in every 2025 and in the UK Netco continues to progress well, supporting our fiber strategy.

在德國，我們透過 [Levia] 合約續約和新的類似協議增強了我們的批發地位，同時預計每年 2025 年都會更新頻譜擴展的細節；在英國 Netco 繼續取得良好進展，支持我們的光纖戰略。

Finally, we remain confident in achieving our financial outlook for the full year 2024. Despite FX headwind going into greater detail. On the next slide, we continue to build a stronger Telefonica through network leadership, customer Centricity and operational excellence.

最後，我們對實現 2024 年全年的財務前景仍然充滿信心。儘管外匯逆風變得更加詳細。在下一張投影片中，我們將繼續透過網路領導力、以客戶為中心和卓越營運來打造更強大的 Telefonica。

We accelerated our fiber to the home rollout with 2.7 million premises in the quarter. While our 5G coverage expanded by 6% points in the last three months. Achieving our 2026 target more than two years ahead of schedule.

我們在本季加快了光纖到府的部署，涵蓋了 270 萬個場所。而我們的 5G 覆蓋率在過去三個月擴大了 6 個百分點。提前兩年多達成 2026 年目標。

These milestones strengthen our network leadership. While capital efficiency improves supported by AI Driven solutions on open gateway, we continue making progress on industry collaboration.

這些里程碑加強了我們的網路領導地位。雖然開放式網關上的人工智慧驅動解決方案支援資本效率提高，但我們在產業協作方面不斷取得進展。

The API new venture will greatly simplify the process for Telcos worldwide to expose their network APIs enabling seamless integration with hyperscalers and developer platforms through a single connection point.

API 新合資企業將大大簡化全球電信公司公開其網路 API 的流程，從而透過單一連接點與超大規模企業和開發人員平台無縫整合。

Our customers, their experience and satisfaction remains a priority and AI is further improving this. Our recent investment and commercial partnership with perplexity will further improve customer service across our markets, driving cost efficiencies, productivity gains and faster resolutions. This quarter, we added 1 million accesses to reach EUR393 million while achieving a record MPAs of 34 operational simplification and asset optimization remain key priorities in Spain. We've closed approximately 8,000 central offices and remain on track to complete our copper network shutdown.

我們的客戶、他們的體驗和滿意度仍然是我們的首要任務，人工智慧正在進一步改善這一點。我們最近與 perplexity 的投資和商業合作夥伴關係將進一步改善我們整個市場的客戶服務，提高成本效率、生產力提高和更快的解決方案。本季度，我們增加了 100 萬次訪問，達到 3.93 億歐元，同時實現了 34 個創紀錄的 MPA，營運簡化和資產優化仍然是西班牙的關鍵優先事項。我們已經關閉了大約 8,000 個中央辦公室，並且仍在按計劃完成銅纜網路的關閉。

We continue scaling AI across the business having prioritized six key use case clusters. Meanwhile, in Hispam, we are executing on our strategy as evidenced by the nonbinding [mou] with Millicom in Colombia.

我們繼續在整個業務範圍內擴展人工智慧，優先考慮六個關鍵用例叢集。同時，在 Hispam 領域，我們正在執行我們的策略，與哥倫比亞的 Millicom 簽訂的不具約束力的[諒解備忘錄]就證明了這一點。

On slide 4, our underlying performance remains strong with all three core units showing local currency growth in Q3 in line or above what's seen in the first half of the year.

在投影片 4 上，我們的基本業績仍然強勁，所有三個核心單位均顯示第三季的本幣成長與上半年的水平一致或更高。

This proves that our core business momentum continues. Reported figures were impacted by headwinds particularly from the depreciation of the Brazilian real against the reducing revenue growth by 4.2% points and EBITDA growth by 4.7% points.

這證明我們的核心業務動能仍在持續。報告的數據受到不利因素的影響，特別是巴西雷亞爾貶值導致收入成長下降 4.2 個百分點，EBITDA 成長下降 4.7 個百分點。

Nevertheless, nine months vital minus CapEx growth stands above our 2024 guided range in reported terms. Despite FX headwinds demonstrating the strength of our operating model. And most importantly, our free cash flow grew significantly year on year in both Q3 and nine months, largely protected from current sea volatility through natural hedging strategy.

儘管如此，從報告來看，扣除資本支出成長後的九個月仍高於我們的 2024 年指引範圍。儘管外匯逆風證明了我們營運模式的優勢。最重要的是，我們的自由現金流在第三季和九個月中均較去年同期大幅成長，透過自然對沖策略在很大程度上免受當前海上波動的影響。

Moving to slide 5, underlaying revenue growth has been solid, reflecting strong commercial traction and is underpinned by the increasing high value accesses especially fiber.

轉向幻燈片 5，基礎收入成長一直很穩健，反映出強大的商業吸引力，並受到不斷增加的高價值接觸（尤其是光纖）的支撐。

At the same time, we continue to see strong demand on B2B with it services seeing double digit growth, profitability remains a focus, operating leverage improved versus Q3, '23 as [Scopex] declined 6.3% driven by legacy network switch offs AI implementation and other digital transformation initiatives.

同時，我們繼續看到對B2B 的強勁需求，IT 服務出現兩位數增長，盈利能力仍然是一個焦點，運營槓桿比23 年第三季度有所改善，因為[Scopex] 因傳統網絡關閉人工智慧實施和人力智慧實施而下降了6.3%。

These efforts among others continue supporting our margins on sustainability. Our free cash flow trends continue to strengthen growing at a pace that reinforces our confidence in achieving our target of more than 10% growth for the full year.

這些努力等繼續支持我們的永續發展利潤。我們的自由現金流趨勢持續加強，成長速度增強了我們實現全年 10% 以上成長目標的信心。

On slide 6, we review the positive performance of the KPIs and Financials at Telefonica, Spain Q3 marked an excellent commercial quarter with the best net ads in six years and all accesses showing year on year growth.

在投影片6 中，我們回顧了西班牙Telefonica 的關鍵績效指標(KPI) 和財務狀況的正面表現。增長。

Telefonica Spain continued to excel in a competitive market, leveraging its superior quality and customer service and achieved the lowest churn level in a decade and the best ever NPS, our focus remains on protecting our high-value conversion customer base with a with a balanced combination of churn and output.

西班牙電信憑藉其卓越的品質和客戶服務，繼續在競爭激烈的市場中脫穎而出，實現了十年來最低的客戶流失水平和有史以來最好的NPS，我們的重點仍然是透過平衡的組合來保護我們的高價值轉化客戶群流失率和產出。

We believe that the rational approach is the right strategy to sustain revenue growth. Revenue growth continued in Q3 in line with prior quarters. While EBITDA growth improved up to 1% year on year on the back of further transformation efficiencies.

我們認為，理性的做法是維持收入成長的正確策略。第三季營收持續成長，與前幾季保持一致。而隨著轉型效率的進一步提高，EBITDA 年成長高達 1%。

This EBITDA growth together with a quarter on quarter, stabilization of leases translated into a further visible sequential improvement in a vital that stabilized year on year in Q3.

EBITDA 的成長加上季度環比的成長以及租賃的穩定，轉化為第三季度同比穩定的重要因素的進一步明顯的連續改善。

Finally, let me highlight two relevant topics that enhance our business sustainability. We are pleased with the recent success in the wholesale business, leveraging our superior network quality and expertise. We extended all existing agreements and incorporated new ones with rational and value and agree terms. Hence, our wholesale business is secure for the long term and we have further visibility and stability in the overall market.

最後，讓我強調兩個增強我們業務永續性的相關主題。我們對最近利用我們卓越的網路品質和專業知識在批發業務中取得的成功感到高興。我們擴展了所有現有協議，並納入了合理、有價值且同意條款的新協議。因此，我們的批發業務長期穩定，並且我們在整個市場上有進一步的知名度和穩定性。

And for the future, we believe that the ongoing deregulation process is creating new opportunities in the Spanish market.

對於未來，我們相信正在進行的放鬆管制進程正在為西班牙市場創造新的機會。

Telefonica, Brazil continued to enhance customer value driven by a robust expansion of its contract access base and fiber connections which support output growth and keep churn rates very low to highlight that we have the largest network across Latam, revenue increased by 7.1% in local currency. Boosted by the strong performance of mobile service revenue. The growth in fiber to the home and the ongoing expansion of digital services.

巴西Telefonica 的合約存取基礎和光纖連接的強勁擴張推動了客戶價值的持續提升，這支持了產出增長並保持了極低的客戶流失率，凸顯了我們擁有整個拉美地區最大的網絡，以當地貨幣計算的收入成長了7.1% 。受行動服務收入強勁表現提振。光纖到戶的成長和數位服務的持續擴展。

Despite the higher contribution from digital services, both EBITDA and EBITDA minus CapEx margins showed year on year increases of 0.2% and 2.1% points respectively.

儘管數位服務的貢獻較高，但 EBITDA 和 EBITDA 減去資本支出後的利潤率則年增了 0.2% 和 2.1%。

Finally, we remain very optimistic about the migration from a concession to an authorization with a final agreement expected in Q4 '24. As mentioned before, our German operations maintain strong momentum in Q3 with consistent growth in contracts quarter on quarter and low 02 contraction of 1% reflecting our brand appeal and network quality on the network front 5G population coverage reached 97% with 5G plus celebrating its first anniversary and the +02 network was rated excellent in the latest smartphone magazine test.

最後，我們對從特許權到授權的轉變仍然非常樂觀，預計將在 24 年第四季達成最終協議。如前所述，我們的德國業務在第三季度保持強勁勢頭，合約量環比持續增長，02 年收縮1%，反映了我們在網絡方面的品牌吸引力和網絡質量5G 人口覆蓋率達到97%， 5G+ 迎來首次亮相週年紀念日，+02網路在最新的智慧型手機雜誌測試中​​被評為優秀。

We further strengthened our position with the relaunch of 02 TV and a simplification, reinforcing our value for money leadership.

透過重新推出 02 TV 和簡化，我們進一步鞏固了我們的地位，鞏固了我們物有所值的領先地位。

We also strengthened our B2B positioning, refilling, freed up network capacity to the renewal of contracts with Freenet, Libera and a new agreement with [LA]

我們還加強了 B2B 定位、充值、釋放網路容量以與 Freenet、Libera 續約以及與[洛杉磯]

Financially revenue faced headwinds due to MTR reductions and the shift in the one on one business model with revenue declining by 1.6% year on year in Q3.

由於地鐵減少和一對一業務模式的轉變，財務收入面臨阻力，第三季營收年減1.6%。

However, sustained EBITDA growth of 3% year on year was achieved through focused execution of the accelerated growth and efficiency plan and disciplined cost management.

然而，透過重點執行加速成長和效率計劃以及嚴格的成本管理，實現了 EBITDA 同比持續成長 3%。

Moving to slide 9, to review our UK operations at VMO two in Q3, we remain committed to our strategy to invest in our foundations and key drivers for future growth.

轉到投影片 9，回顧第三季我們在 VMO 二號的英國業務，我們仍然致力於投資於未來成長的基礎和關鍵驅動力的策略。

We returned to fix line customer growth in Q3, adding 16,000 broadband customers and at the same time increased by 2.2% year on year in our wireless business 02 mobile contract churn improved to 1.1%.

第三季我們恢復了固網客戶成長，增加了 16,000 名寬頻客戶，同時無線業務年增 2.2%。

Furthermore, fiber deployment has significantly accelerated with a notable 44% year on year increase in our build rate in the first nine months of 2024. We also established a long new term partnership with UK to provide our infrastructure and associated services and monetize a further 8% stake in CTIL while returning co control regarding financials revenue fell by 0.7% year on year in Q3, mainly affected by hardware weakness. Despite this, we have achieved stable combined consumer fixed and mobile revenue excluding handsets, EBITDA also decreased by 2.7 year on year due to ongoing investments in it and next fiber initiatives.

此外，光纖部署顯著加快，2024 年前 9 個月的建設率較去年同期顯著成長 44%。我們還與英國建立了長期的新合作夥伴關係，提供我們的基礎設施和相關服務，並將CTIL 的8% 股份進一步貨幣化，同時歸還共同控制權。收入較去年同期下降0.7%。儘管如此，我們仍實現了穩定的消費者固定和行動收入（不包括手機），由於對IT和下一代光纖計劃的持續投資，EBITDA也比去年同期下降了2.7。

Telefonica Tech on slide 10 continues to show steady progress. Tech is a crucial growth driver for our B2B business tech in the last 12 months reached EUR2 billion revenues at 12% annual increase.

第 10 張投影片上的 Telefonica Tech 繼續顯示出穩定進展。科技是我們 B2B 業務科技成長的重要推手，過去 12 個月科技收入達 20 億歐元，年增率為 12%。

Both financial and bookings show an even higher growth rate and revenue which gives us a very good visibility of the future business.

財務和預訂都顯示出更高的成長率和收入，這使我們對未來業務有很好的了解。

Q3 bookings increased 40% year on year, mostly driven by large contracts from the private sector awarded from financial health care and manufacturing customers, solid commercial activities, increasing the backlog of higher value contracts which will bring more recurrent services and revenue flows in the future. Enhancing the sustainability of the business.

第三季預訂量年增40%，主要是由金融醫療保健和製造客戶授予的私部門大額合約、穩健的商業活動以及高價值合約積壓的增加所推動，這將在未來帶來更多的經常性服務和收入流。增強業務的可持續性。

The ongoing improvement is not only evident in the visibility of the tech business but also in our revenue mix with a stronger contribution from managed and professional services and own platforms and a higher rate of hard currency revenue already 87% of revenue in nine months of 2024.

持續的改善不僅體現在技術業務的知名度上，也體現在我們的收入組合中，託管和專業服務以及自有平台的貢獻更大，硬通貨收入率更高，到2024 年9 個月已佔收入的87% 。

With all these positive developments, we remain optimistic for the future Telefonica Infra on slide 11 continues to drive growth and accelerate digital inclusion through the efficient deployment of next generation infrastructure rollout by Fiberco progress at paced having passed more than 1 million premises in the quarter to 24 million. Advancing well to the target of around 30 million in 2026 in Germany.

有了所有這些積極的發展，我們對未來保持樂觀。場所。德國正向 2026 年約 3,000 萬人口的目標邁進。

[Hge] reached an agreement to acquire infra fiber, Germany strengthening [Hge's] position as a fiber infrastructure provider throughout selected rural areas and accelerating the planned expansion to 2 million premises. Passed TSUS our global connectivity provider maintained a double digit growth rate in traffic and a high profitability level of close to 50% in the first nine months of the year.

[Hge] 達成收購德國基礎光纖的協議，加強了 [Hge] 作為遍及選定農村地區的光纖基礎設施提供商的地位，並加速計劃擴張至 200 萬個場所。透過 TSUS，我們的全球連線供應商在今年前 9 個月保持了兩位數的流量成長率和接近 50% 的高獲利水準。

I will now hand it over to Laura who will guide you through Hispam performance, the main financial situation and ESG topics.

我現在將其交給 Laura，她將指導您了解 Hispam 的表現、主要財務狀況和 ESG 主題。

Thank you, Angel. We are continuously working to try and build a more rational environment in Hispam reducing network overlap and use of invested capital more efficiently. Additionally, we are exploring potential opportunity for market consolidation and we will keep you updated on any developments.

謝謝你，天使。我們不斷努力在 Hispam 中建立一個更合理的環境，減少網路重疊並更有效地利用投資資本。此外，我們正在探索市場整合的潛在機會，我們將隨時向您通報任何進展。

Q324 results are impacted by the depreciation of the Mexican and Chilean Peso among other currencies and a strong competition in Chile and Peru.

2024 年第三季業績受到墨西哥和智利比索等其他貨幣貶值以及智利和秘魯激烈競爭的影響。

In the [latter] is also a sequential deterioration. Reported results are hit by a EUR314 million noncash impairment charge. Despite these challenges, Q3 and '24 EBITDA minus CapEx remain virtually flat compared to Q3 and '24 in reported terms. Thanks to a reduction in leases expenses and CapEx.

[後者]也是一種持續惡化。報告的業績受到 3.14 億歐元非現金減損費用的影響。儘管存在這些挑戰，但按報告數據計算，第三季和 24 年第三季和 24 年 EBITDA 減去資本支出與第三季和 24 年相比幾乎持平。由於租賃費用和資本支出的減少。

Moving on to free cash flow on slide 13. As anticipated, our free cash flow generation show significant momentum in Q3 delivering levels four times higher than the second quarter. These accelerations follows our typical seasonal pattern and has driven nine months growth to 27.7% year on year.

接下來討論投影片 13 的自由現金流。正如預期的那樣，我們的自由現金流生成在第三季度表現出強勁的勢頭，交付水平比第二季度高出四倍。這些加速遵循我們典型的季節性模式，並推動 9 個月的年成長率達到 27.7%。

Importantly, this performance is enabled by our hedging strategy implemented at the beginning of each year to protect the majority of our free cash flow which ultimately drives shareholder remuneration.

重要的是，這項業績得益於我們每年年初實施的對沖策略，以保護我們大部分的自由現金流，最終推動股東薪酬。

This puts us in a strong position and gives us confidence in delivering both our '24 targets and our broader '23 to '26 ambitions.

這使我們處於有利地位，並使我們有信心實現「24」目標和更廣泛的「23」至「26」雄心壯志。

As of September 2024 net financial debt declined by roughly EUR0.5 billion from EUR29.2 billion in June '24 to EUR28.7 billion in September '24 mainly due to the solid BRICA for generation in the quarter net debt to a bid was reduced from 2.78 times to 2.76 times as of September '24 and is expected to be further reduced towards the year end. We are committed to reduce leverage and remain on track to meet our targets.

截至 2024 年 9 月，淨金融債務減少了約 5 億歐元，從 2024 年 6 月的 292 億歐元降至 24 年 9 月的 287 億歐元，主要是由於金磚四國本季發電淨債務減少了。截至2024 年9 月，從2.78 倍降至2.76 倍，預計年底將進一步減少。我們致力於降低槓桿並繼續實現我們的目標。

Additionally, we will receive the proceeds from the sale of a stake in CTIL. Meanwhile, Telefonica maintains a solid liquidity position of EUR19.9 billion that together with the live maturity profile allows us to cover the maturities over the next three years.

此外，我們還將收到出售 CTIL 股份的收益。同時，Telefonica 保持著 199 億歐元的穩健流動性頭寸，加上即時到期情況，使我們能夠涵蓋未來三年的到期情況。

Our debt is nearly 75% linked to fixed rates with an average life of close to 11 years which place us in a comfortable position to face any market environment.

我們的債務近 75% 與固定利率掛鉤，平均期限接近 11 年，這使我們能夠輕鬆應對任何市場環境。

Furthermore, we lower our debt related interest cost to 3.61% versus 3.8% in December last year. Thanks to the active refinancing exercise undertaken in previous years, the robust position at fixed interest rates in strong currencies and lower interest rates in Brazilian real this quarter, Telefonica continued to make solid progress in to show how we are decarbonizing the economy.

此外，我們將債務相關利息成本降至 3.61%，去年 12 月為 3.8%。由於前幾年積極開展的再融資活動、強勢貨幣固定利率的強勁地位以及本季度巴西雷亞爾較低的利率，西班牙電信在展示我們如何實現經濟脫碳方面繼續取得紮實進展。

We have published a new report quantifying how our B2C customers avoid emissions. Thanks to our services on the supply chain side, we have led an ambitious initiative within the sector to train suppliers on lowering emissions on gender diversity.

我們發布了一份新報告，量化了我們的 B2C 客戶如何避免排放。由於我們在供應鏈方面的服務，我們在該行業內領導了一項雄心勃勃的舉措，對供應商進行性別多樣性降低排放方面的培訓。

We are progressing well, just over third of our executives are now women. Meanwhile, we are addressing the needs of B2B customers who require sustainability reference with eco bodies ranking us in the 99 percentile of all companies assessed.

我們進展順利，現在超過三分之一的高階主管是女性。同時，我們正在滿足需要永續發展參考的 B2B 客戶的需求，生態機構將我們排在所有評估公司的 99% 之內。

And finally, on the governance side, we have been recognized for our reporting and transparency and we continue to lead the way in ethical AI as active participants in the development of the European code of practice. I will now come back to angel who will wrap up.

最後，在治理方面，我們的報告和透明度得到了認可，並且我們作為歐洲實踐準則制定的積極參與者，繼續在道德人工智慧領域處於領先地位。現在我要回到將要結束的天使。

Thank you, Laura. On our guidance, we are on track to achieve our full year 2024 targets. Despite FX headwinds impacting our operating our reported revenue and EBITDA figures.

謝謝你，勞拉。根據我們的指導，我們預計將實現 2024 年全年目標。儘管外匯逆風影響了我們的運營，但我們報告的收入和 EBITDA 數據。

Our underlying business performance remains strong. We are controlling the controllable and our free cash flow is well protected from FX volatility through effective hedging. This is evident in our nine month results while EBITDA minus CapEx and free cash flow already trending above targeted ranges. While CapEx two cells remains fully aligned with guidance.

我們的基本業務表現依然強勁。我們正在控制可控，並且透過有效的對沖，我們的自由現金流得到了很好的保護，免受外匯波動的影響。這在我們九個月的業績中顯而易見，而 EBITDA 減去資本支出和自由現金流已經高於目標範圍。雖然資本支出兩個單元仍與指導完全一致。

Moreover, using our guidance FX assumptions, nine months results would be well within our guidance with more than 1% EBITDA growth and more than 2% EBITDA minus CapEx growth.

此外，使用我們的指導外匯假設，九個月的結果將完全在我們的指導範圍內，EBITDA 成長超過 1%，EBITDA 減去資本支出成長超過 2%。

Our robust rect generation continues supporting or deleveraging trajectory towards our 2026 target range. While currency tuitions may create short term volatility in reported figures. Our nine month performance and strategic execution reinforce our confidence in both our 2024 targets and the '23, '26 plan to wrap up on slide17, first, we delivered one more quarter of solid business momentum across our core markets.

我們強勁的矩形生成繼續支持或去槓桿化軌跡，實現我們的 2026 年目標範圍。雖然貨幣學費可能會造成報告數據的短期波動。我們九個月的業績和策略執行增強了我們對2024 年目標和幻燈片17 中總結的「23、26」計劃的信心，首先，我們在核心市場上再提供了四分之一的強勁業務勢頭。

Second, the significant acceleration in free cash flow this quarter reinforces our confidence in delivering '24 and '23, '26 targets of more than 10% growth.

其次，本季自由現金流的顯著加速增強了我們實現「24」和「23」、「26」成長 10% 以上目標的信心。

Third, our natural hedging strategy effectively protects our free cash flow from currency fluctuations. Fourth, our strategic investments in fiber and five in infrastructure, continue driving premium customer experience and satisfaction.

第三，我們的自然對沖策略有效保護我們的自由現金流免受貨幣波動的影響。第四，我們對光纖的策略投資和對基礎設施的五項策略投資，持續推動優質的客戶體驗和滿意度。

Fifth, we maintain discipline, balance sheet management and capital allocation focused on meeting targets, sustaining our dividend and investing in key growth areas.

第五，我們維持紀律、資產負債表管理和資本配置，重點在於實現目標、維持股息並投資於關鍵成長領域。

And finally, we see clear catalysts ahead, particularly the authorization model in Brazil and increasing market rationalization in Europe through deregulation and reduced fragmentation.

最後，我們看到了未來明顯的催化劑，特別是巴西的授權模式以及歐洲透過放鬆管制和減少分散化來提高市場合理化程度。

Thank you very much for listening. We are now ready to take your questions.

非常感謝您的聆聽。我們現在準備好回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Ondrej Cabejsek, UBS.

Ondrej Cabejsek，瑞銀。

Good morning, everyone, thank you for the presentation. Congratulations on the results. I've got maybe two questions there, kind of related, I would say. If we look at Spain, you're, obviously, posting very good KPIs in terms of net adds that are accelerating, your churn is decreasing, there has been this year a bit of a dilution to your convergent ARPU.

大家早安，謝謝您的演講。祝賀結果。我想說，我可能有兩個問題，有點相關。如果我們看看西班牙，很明顯，您在淨增加方面發布了非常好的 KPI，這些 KPI 正在加速，您的客戶流失率正在下降，今年您的聚合 ARPU 有所稀釋。

So I was just thinking if you can maybe reflect on all the changes that we've seen in competition throughout this year from the merger to the latest kind of rounds of back-to-school promotions by Zegona and then the recent price cuts that DIGI did? Like how is the market shaping up over the past three, four quarters in Spain because the trends are largely good, but not all of them good?

所以我只是想你是否可以反思一下我們今年在競爭中看到的所有變化，從合併到 Zegona 最新一輪的返校促銷，再到最近 DIGI 的降價。就像過去三、四季西班牙市場的情況如何一樣，因為趨勢基本上是好的，但並非全部都是好的？

And then related to that, just if you can comment on again, DIGI's price cuts where they followed the closing of the deal that you presented last quarter. So is there any relation? And then how do you think the kind of competition in the lower end would unfold from here? Thank you very much.

與此相關的是，如果您可以再次評論一下，DIGI 在您上季度提出的交易結束後進行了降價。那麼有什麼關係嗎？那麼您認為低端市場的競爭將如何展開？非常感謝。

Thank you for these questions on Spain. On the competitive environment and dynamics recently, we are seeing some players repositioning their products and strategy, which is creating maybe some more commercial intensity, but mainly in the low end.

感謝您提出有關西班牙的問題。在最近的競爭環境和動態方面，我們看到一些參與者重新定位他們的產品和策略，這可能會創造更多的商業強度，但主要是在低端市場。

We believe that the market continues to be segmented and rationale. We had soft summer campaigns. Market portability was very much reduced with clear winners and losers and we were between those winners and low market churn levels.

我們認為市場繼續細分和合理化。我們進行了溫和的夏季行銷活動。市場可移植性大大降低，有明顯的贏家和輸家，我們處於這些贏家和低市場流失水準之間。

Portability has been the lowest in 10 years if we accept, of course, the 2020 pandemic lockdown. And we should not forget that all players implemented price increases this year. And yes, there is some intensity in the low end, but we maintain a rational approach with value-based services, best-in-class infrastructures, which allow us to show very consistent performance in all the KPIs. As you have seen, we have net adds in all the main services. Now it's the fifth quarter in a row of growth, best net adds and portability in six3 years.

當然，如果我們接受 2020 年的大流行封鎖，那麼可移植性已達到 10 年來的最低水準。我們不應該忘記，今年所有參與者都實施了漲價。是的，低端存在一定強度，但我們保持理性的方法，提供基於價值的服務和一流的基礎設施，這使我們能夠在所有 KPI 中表現出非常一致的表現。正如您所看到的，我們在所有主要服務中都有淨增加。現在已經是連續第五個季度實現成長，淨增加和可移植性是六年來最好的。

We have the best churn in a decade. It's 0.8%. If you combine this with the ARPU, which remains above EUR90, we have stronger customer lifetime value, which is around double our closest follower. The ARPU evolution, yes, in the year-on-year has a decrease of 0.4%, but this is due to a large O2 penetration. And -- but this remains very consistently above EUR90, and it's differential with respect to our competitors.

我們經歷了十年來最好的客戶流失率。是0.8%。如果將此與保持在 90 歐元以上的 ARPU 結合起來，我們將擁有更強的客戶終身價值，大約是我們最密切關注者的兩倍。是的，ARPU 值比去年同期下降了 0.4%，但這是由於氧氣滲透率較高。而且 - 但這始終保持在 90 歐元以上，並且與我們的競爭對手相比存在差異。

We believe that one needs to look at all these KPIs altogether. And these results, as I was saying before, in the strongest value of our customer base compared to any of our competitors. Regarding DIGI, we signed, as you know, with them the -- a combination of roaming and network sharing agreement. This is value-creating. It's an agreement for the next 16 years.

我們認為，需要綜合考慮所有這些 KPI。正如我之前所說，與我們的任何競爭對手相比，這些結果體現了我們客戶群的最大價值。關於 DIGI，如您所知，我們與他們簽署了漫遊和網路共享的組合協議。這是創造價值的。這是未來 16 年的協議。

The revenues of this contract are going to be at least at the same level of the existing roaming contract that we have. And this sharing will be progressively implemented when DIGI has full ownership of the spectrum that they will get from Orange.

該合約的收入將至少與我們現有的漫遊合約處於同一水平。當 DIGI 完全擁有從 Orange 獲得的頻譜時，這種共享將逐步實施。

Can I maybe follow up on the DIGI? So as you mentioned, you were expecting or you're saying that the contract to you is obviously value enhancing. So were you surprised at all about the fact that a couple of maybe weeks or months later, DIGI again cut prices and what does this mean for the competition in the market from their side?

我可以跟進 DIGI 嗎？正如您所提到的，您期望或您說給您的合約顯然會增加價值。那麼，您是否對幾週或幾個月後 DIGI 再次降價這一事實感到驚訝？

Well, in general, and this applies not only to the DIGI agreement, we have been very careful in renegotiating all the wholesale agreements that and the new ones in such a way that they bring a rationality to the market and visibility to the market. We have been extremely careful not to, to create the conditions in wholesale contracts that may create a distortions. Spain is already a very competitive market and there is a full availability of wholesale offers to the different players.

嗯，總的來說，這不僅適用於 DIGI 協議，我們在重新談判所有批發協議和新協議時非常謹慎，以便為市場帶來合理性和可見性。我們一直非常小心，不要在批發合約中創造可能造成扭曲的條件。西班牙已經是一個競爭非常激烈的市場，並且向不同的參與者提供全面的批發報價。

But we have been working at this on, on with the mentality of being very rational in the in the renegotiation of of contracts. The DIGI contract is the roaming is structured around a scheme that depends on the number of subscribers and the consumption of traffic and given the projections that we have, we feel comfortable in that the rent sharing will depend on the number of, of shares eventually the sites that it will be eventually shared. Sorry.

但我們一直在努力，在合約重新談判中保持非常理性的心態。DIGI 合約是漫遊圍繞一個計劃構建，該計劃取決於訂戶數量和流量消耗，並且根據我們的預測，我們感到放心的是，租金分攤將取決於最終的股份數量最終將被共享的網站。對不起。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Mathieu Robilliard, Barclays.

馬蒂厄·羅比利亞德，巴克萊銀行。

I had a question about the guidance and how you qualify it. I understand that you say you've reiterated all the guidance despite the fact that there's an FX headwind. But at the same time, it seems to be a bit nuanced in the way you comment possibly for the EBITDA and the revenue growth for this year. So I just wanted to clarify if at this stage, you still believe you could reach despite where the FX is the full year guidance for revenues or EBITDA and whether your level of confidence had remained stable or decreased a bit because of the FX? Sorry, it may seem a bit pedantic, but I just wanted to make sure I understand exactly what you're saying there.

我對指南以及如何限定它有疑問。據我所知，儘管存在外匯逆風，但您還是重申了所有指導意見。但同時，您對今年 EBITDA 和營收成長的評論方式似乎有點微妙。所以我只是想澄清一下，在這個階段，儘管外匯是收入或 EBITDA 的全年指導，您仍然相信您可以達到目標，以及您的信心水平是否因外匯而保持穩定或略有下降？抱歉，這可能看起來有點迂腐，但我只是想確保我完全理解你在說什麼。

And then the second question was about the German market where clearly, you're posting a strong performance. We've seen quite a few moves in the market, some initiated by competitors, some initiated by you. And I was wondering how you saw the competitive environment developing both on mobile, but also on fixed where we've seen some aggressive offers for high-speed broadband? Thank you very much.

第二個問題是關於德國市場，很明顯，你們的表現強勁。我們已經看到市場上發生了很多變動，有些是由競爭對手發起的，有些是由您發起的。我想知道您如何看待行動領域和固定領域的競爭環境的發展，我們已經看到了一些積極的高速寬頻報價？非常感謝。

Thank you, Mathieu, for the question on guidance. Please, let me emphasize that we are not quite qualifying or changing the guidance. As the capital base, we changed our focus and guidance into reporting and current terms, and we aim to grow in Euro terms. This applies, I remind you, only to revenue and EBITDA, as free cash flow has always been in current terms. For that, obviously, we make our own FX assumptions and mild variations will not affect that.

謝謝你，Mathieu，提出有關指導的問題。請讓我強調一下，我們並沒有完全限製或改變指南。作為資本基礎，我們將重點和指導轉變為報告和當前條款，我們的目標是以歐元計算成長。我提醒您，這僅適用於收入和 EBITDA，因為自由現金流一直是按當前條件計算的。為此，顯然，我們做出了自己的外匯假設，輕微的變化不會影響這一點。

We are now in a moment that in the Q3, there was a more abrupt change in the Brazilian real with depreciation year-on-year of more than 12%, and that can temporarily affect our headline reported growth. But we are really, really confident on the Brazilian operation. Let me remind you that Brazil is growing both in Euro terms and even more in local currency. And in local currency, they are growing above 7%, both revenue and EBITDA, which is well above inflation and that's the best way to compensate any FX changes. So we are really committed on keep on with a very strong underlying performance of our core business unit, which is not only Brazil, as we saw in the presentation and in the first question, Spain's EBITDA growth is accelerating.

我們現在正處於第三季巴西雷亞爾發生更突然變化的時刻，年比貶值超過 12%，這可能會暫時影響我們報告的整體成長。但我們對巴西的業務非常非常有信心。讓我提醒您，巴西以歐元計算，甚至以當地貨幣計算，都在成長。以當地貨幣計算，收入和 EBITDA 的成長率均超過 7%，遠高於通貨膨脹，這是補償任何匯率變動的最佳方式。因此，我們確實致力於保持我們核心業務部門非常強勁的基本業績，正如我們在演示中和第一個問題中看到的那樣，這不僅僅是巴西，西班牙的 EBITDA 成長正在加速。

There has been really strong commercial results and same for Germany. EBITDA continues growing low to mid-single digit in Q3 and operating cash flow EBITDA minus CapEx is growing almost 8% year-on-year. I must admit that Spain remains Hispam remains more volatile with less linear performance, particularly in Peru and Chile, but some countries are definitely doing better than others. But going to the guidance, specifically question, based on our current FX assumptions for the year, we are fine with the guidance committed we say, and that's why we have confirmed. It is true that we cannot speculate on potential FX moves.

德國取得了非常強勁的商業成果。第三季 EBITDA 繼續以低至中個位數成長，營運現金流 EBITDA 減去資本支出較去年同期成長近 8%。我必須承認西班牙仍然更加不穩定，線性表現較差，特別是在秘魯和智利，但有些國家肯定比其他國家做得更好。但就指導意見而言，具體而言，根據我們今年目前的外匯假設，我們對我們所說的承諾指導意見感到滿意，這就是我們確認的原因。確實，我們無法推測潛在的外匯走勢。

We have to see now the reaction to the US election. But again, what we need to protect is our free cash flow. Free cash flow is the focus. Free cash flow is much more hedged.

我們現在必須看看人們對美國大選的反應。但同樣，我們需要保護的是我們的自由現金流。自由現金流是焦點。自由現金流的對沖性更強。

The impact in free cash flow is minimal, first, because we have a natural hedge. Second, because we also do financial hedges; and we are also having depth in local currencies, which is also helping on our debt to EBITDA ratio and in the solvency ratio. So very high level of confidence. We expect the core business units to keep on doing -- being in the same good line of direction for Q4. And based on our current FX, we definitely feel we can make the guidance.

首先，對自由現金流的影響很小，因為我們有自然對沖。第二，因為我們也做金融對沖；我們也擁有當地貨幣的深度，這也有助於提高我們的債務與 EBITDA 比率和償付能力比率。所以信心非常高。我們預計核心業務部門將繼續保持第四季的良好發展方向。根據我們目前的匯率，我們絕對認為我們可以做出指導。

Thank you. If I may, just to make sure I fully understood. So based on your current FX guidance, you believe that -- or rather not guidance, forecast, you believe that the guidance is safe. But are your assumptions for FX that, for instance, Brazil real trajectory would move in a more positive territory or is that based on what it is today and what do you think of all the businesses on a local currency basis? Hopefully, that's clear.

謝謝。如果可以的話，只是為了確保我完全理解。因此，根據您當前的外匯指導，您相信——或者更確切地說不是指導，預測，您相信指導是安全的。但是，您對外匯的假設是，例如，巴西的實際軌跡將朝著更積極的方向發展，還是基於今天的情況以及您對以當地貨幣為基礎的所有業務的看法？希望這是清楚的。

We have assumptions on the real, which could be similar to what we have today, but it definitely may vary and it also depends on the average. So -- but as I said, it's very difficult to speculate on potential FX moves. So we will focus attention on the strength of the operations. We will focus attention on Brazilian growing both in local and euro terms, growing locally so strong, overperforming inflation with no doubt, and we'll put all our focus on the free cash flow. You have seen how strong has been in the first nine months of the year, regardless the FX moves.

我們對真實情況有假設，這可能與我們今天的情況類似，但它肯定可能會有所不同，也取決於平均值。所以——但正如我所說，很難推測潛在的外匯趨勢。因此，我們將重點放在營運實力。我們將重點關注巴西本地和歐元的成長，本地成長如此強勁，毫無疑問地跑贏通膨，我們將把所有註意力都放在自由現金流上。無論外匯走勢如何，您都已經看到今年前九個月的表現有多強勁。

And let me remind you that the FX hedge we do for the Brazilian real is not flowing through free cash flow yet. It's flowing through P&L. But when we close the derivatives at year-end, we will have all the compensation impact for Q4. So very, very focused on free cash flow, a resilient free cash flow and resilient core business units.

讓我提醒您，我們對巴西雷亞爾進行的外匯對沖尚未透過自由現金流流動。它流經損益表。但當我們在年底關閉衍生性商品時，我們將承受第四季度的所有薪資影響。因此非常非常關注自由現金流、有彈性的自由現金流和有彈性的核心業務部門。

And in Germany, we have been simplifying and sharpening our portfolio to remain leaders in value for money. Markus, you could help me elaborate on this question.

在德國，我們一直在簡化和完善我們的產品組合，以保持物有所值的領先地位。馬庫斯，你可以幫我詳細說明這個問題。

Thank you, Angel. Our Q3 performance has clearly shown that our focus on value for money and the segmentation of the market has delivered very strong commercial results. Also the new portfolio that we launched yesterday shows that we focus on customers around the EUR30 ARPU price point. This is all mobile service revenue accretive. So from that perspective, we fully focus on our value-for-money strategy consequently as in the past and clearly believe in segmentation and value growth.

謝謝你，天使。我們第三季的業績清楚地表明，我們對性價比和市場區隔的關注已經帶來了非常強勁的商業成果。此外，我們昨天推出的新產品組合表明，我們專注於 ARPU 價格點約 30 歐元的客戶。這是所有行動服務收入的累加。因此，從這個角度來看，我們一如既往地完全專注於物有所值的策略，並明確相信細分和價值成長。

On the fixed question that you raised, Telefónica Deutschland has access to all infrastructures in the German market. So we also have the possibility clearly to join promotional activities also on the cable networks in order to shift also volumes between technologies. And we clearly also have been able to show very strong fixed service revenue growth with the Q3 results.

關於您提出的固定問題，Telefónica Deutschland 可以使用德國市場的所有基礎設施。因此，我們顯然也有可能加入有線網路上的促銷活動，以便在技術之間轉移流量。顯然，我們第三季的業績也顯示出了非常強勁的固定服務收入成長。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Luigi Minerva, HSBC.

路易吉·密涅瓦，匯豐銀行。

Two questions. The first one is on tower leases and the potential opportunities in the Spanish market. I was referring to the press rumours about negotiations between Vodafone Spain and Totem where Vodafone Spain is trying arguably to get better terms, perhaps getting out of anchor tenancy terms switching towards secondary tenancy terms.

兩個問題。第一個是塔樓租賃和西班牙市場的潛在機會。我指的是關於沃達豐西班牙公司與 Totem 之間談判的媒體傳言，沃達豐西班牙公司可能正在試圖獲得更好的條款，或許可以擺脫主力租賃條款，轉向二級租賃條款。

So I was wondering if your agreement with American Tower can offer at some point some upside? And if I remember well, there is no all-or-nothing clause at renewal of that -- of the current agreement with American Tower.

所以我想知道你們與美國鐵塔的協議是否可以在某個時候帶來一些好處？如果我沒記錯的話，與美國鐵塔目前的協議續約時並沒有「全有或全無」的條款。

So I'd be interested in hearing your views on that. Secondly, on -- one question on free cash flow if I may. The -- yes, the reported one is 27% up year-to-date, well ahead of guidance of 10%. However, as usual, in the Telefónica free cash flow, there are many moving parts. Some are organic, some are not, but particularly I'm wondering if it's appropriate to keep the EUR298 million of rural 5G subsidy in your free cash flow definition for what guidance matters.

所以我很想聽聽你對此的看法。其次，我想問一個關於自由現金流的問題。是的，據報導今年迄今上漲了 27%，遠高於 10% 的指導值。然而，與往常一樣，西班牙電信的自由現金流中有許多變動的部分。有些是有機的，有些不是，但我特別想知道將 2.98 億歐元的農村 5G 補貼保留在自由現金流定義中是否合適，以指導重要的內容。

Because if I simply adjust the year-to-date free cash flow by those EUR298 million, you're actually down 10% year-to-date compared to 2023. Thank you.

因為如果我簡單地將年初至今的自由現金流調整為 2.98 億歐元，那麼與 2023 年相比，年初至今實際上下降了 10%。謝謝。

Thank you for your questions. I'll take the first one on tower leases. We cannot comment on competitors' intentions to renegotiate their lease contracts with third parties. What I can say is that all our agreements with tower [Cos] in Spain are flexible, allowing us to renegotiate and capture efficiencies and we don't have in the name that you alluded to all-or-nothing clauses.

謝謝您的提問。我會選擇第一個塔式租賃。我們無法評論競爭對手與第三方重新談判租賃合約的意圖。我能說的是，我們與西班牙塔爾[Cos]達成的所有協議都是靈活的，使我們能夠重新談判並提高效率，而且我們的名稱中沒有您提到的“全有或全無”條款。

Yes. On the free cash flow, yes, we did have a good performance. We said, as usual, it will be backloaded in the year. So it's been very strong for the first nine months, and it will be even more stronger for Q4. So we will hit the 10% guidance we provided.

是的。在自由現金流方面，是的，我們確實有不錯的表現。我們說，像往常一樣，今年會回載。因此，前九個月的表現非常強勁，第四季將會更加強勁。因此，我們將達到我們提供的 10% 指導值。

It's again, bits and pieces. We have a delta of more than EUR200 million year-on-year and one-third of that approximately comes from operating cash flow, EBITDAal minus CapEx. Then if you go below working capital, and I will talk specifically about the subsidies question you mentioned. Let me remind you that working capital is still negative. So we are still consuming, but it has a better year-on-year comparison.

又來了，零碎的。我們的增量年增超過 2 億歐元，其中三分之一大約來自營運現金流（EBITDAal 減去資本支出）。那如果你說到營運資金下面，我會具體談談你提到的補助問題。讓我提醒您，營運資金仍然為負。所以我們仍然在消費，但是同比比較好。

We also are benefiting from the lower leakage as we made the operation on Telefónica Deutschland. We also have financial payments, as you see, really, really controlled and even lower, and we remain working on the tax payments.

當我們在 Telefónica Deutschland 進行營運時，我們也受益於較低的洩漏。正如你所看到的，我們還有財務支付，確實非常受控制，甚至更低，而且我們仍在致力於納稅。

There we have -- last year, we -- no, this year, we have the Peruvian tax payments and we also have the back and forward of the tax in advance in Spain that it also has some seasonality, but we are very happy with our free cash flow, strong growth, and we anticipate that growth to continue in Q4, again, based on the continued momentum on EBITDA, the solid operational rates, working capital should reverse and the continuous optimization on interest, leases and tax payments.

去年，我們——不，今年，我們有秘魯的納稅，我們也有西班牙提前納稅的情況，它也有一些季節性，但我們非常滿意我們的自由現金流、強勁增長，我們預計第四季度將繼續增長，基於EBITDA 的持續成長動能、穩健的營運率、營運資本應該逆轉以及利息、租賃和納稅的持續最佳化。

On the 5G subsidies, this is a working capital movement, no doubt, which happens not specifically this year, it's part of the rural deployment and part of the UNICO program. This is ultimately less CapEx, and it is true that it concentrates in certain times of the year.

關於5G補貼，毫無疑問，這是一種營運資金流動，這不是今年特有的，它是農村部署的一部分，也是UNICO計畫的一部分。這最終是較少的資本支出，而且它確實集中在一年中的某些時間。

But if we talk about things, we -- last year, we also had the benefit of the judicial review of the Brazil -- in Brazil. And this year, we have nothing in that regard. So it's not just a matter of taking this out. So this, as I said, is another working capital element as many others. Working capital is seasonal.

但如果我們談論事情，去年我們也從巴西的司法審查中受益。今年，我們在這方面沒有任何進展。所以這不只是把這個去掉的問題。因此，正如我所說，這與許多其他要素一樣是另一個營運資金要素。營運資金是季節性的。

Every quarter has its ups and downs. We are still consuming. It will reverse, and we -- this is very related to our operational. So again, we are very confident on the free cash flow for the year. I'm very satisfied with this year-on-year performance.

每季都有其起伏。我們還在消費。它會逆轉，而我們——這與我們的營運非常相關。因此，我們對今年的自由現金流非常有信心。我對今年的表現非常滿意。

Okay. Thanks for the call.

好的。感謝您的來電。

Fernando Cordero, Banco Santander.

費爾南多·科德羅，桑坦德銀行。

Hello, good morning and thanks for taking my question, My question is related with Telefónica Tech. Thanks for the update on the top line performance. But I would like to understand as well how is the profitability of Telefónica Tech performing. Particularly within the different product services segments within Telefónica Tech, which are the ones that are performing strongly and which are the ones that are lagging right now? Thanks.

您好，早安，感謝您提出我的問題，我的問題與 Telefónica Tech 有關。感謝您對頂線業績的更新。但我也想了解 Telefónica Tech 的獲利能力表現如何。特別是在 Telefónica Tech 的不同產品服務領域中，哪些領域表現強勁，哪些領域目前表現落後？謝謝。

Thank you, Fernando. As you saw in the presentation, Telefónica Tech continues to be growing above comparable and above the growth rate of the group. It's a crucial growth driver that helps us to outperform in the B2B segment. The revenue growth had a slight slowdown in Q3 in the growth rate versus previous quarters for a reason of displacement of some projects because there are some seasonal fluctuations in revenues and sale activities and also linked to the change of mix.

謝謝你，費爾南多。正如您在演示中看到的那樣，Telefónica Tech 的成長速度繼續高於可比水平，也高於集團的成長率。這是一個重要的成長動力，幫助我們在 B2B 領域表現出色。由於收入和銷售活動存在一些季節性波動以及與組合的變化有關，導致一些項目的轉移，第三季的收入成長速度較前幾季略有放緩。

We are getting into greater weight of more complex projects with more consulting and professional services elements with which, on one hand, have longer term of revenue conversion, but also will have a positive impact on the recurrence and predictability of the revenue.

我們正在投入更多具有更多諮詢和專業服務元素的更複雜的項目，一方面，這些項目具有更長的收入轉換期限，但也將對收入的重複性和可預測性產生積極影響。

So we are moving into contracts that have more time to prepare and then start giving the operations, but then become recurrent and give us long visibility to the future. Bookings are very strong in Q3, in particular, 40% of bookings. And with this change of mix of projects into more complexity, more value-added, this is also improving the margins of -- and the profitability of Telefónica Tech, which is going in the direction that we wanted to be in the three year plan. And we are progressing nicely towards the objective of reaching the target that we stated at the Capital Markets Day of EUR3 billion revenues by 2026.

因此，我們正在簽訂有更多時間準備的合同，然後開始提供運營，但隨後會定期進行，讓我們對未來有長期的預見性。第三季的預訂量非常強勁，尤其是 40% 的預訂量。隨著專案組合變得更加複雜、附加價值更高，這也提高了 Telefónica Tech 的利潤率和獲利能力，這正朝著我們在三年計畫中所希望的方向發展。我們正在順利實現我們在資本市場日宣布的到 2026 年收入 30 億歐元的目標。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Keval Khiroya from Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的凱瓦爾‧希羅亞 (Keval Khiroya)。

Thank you for taking the questions and I have two, please. So firstly, your Q3 EBITDA grew 1%, but estimated it fell 4%, roughly excluding count reduction benefit, which is a deterioration on last year. So what do you think are the main barriers to achieving a better EBITDA performance? And how do we think about the 2025 EBITDA trajectory in Spain? And then secondly, you've mentioned IRU with Orange.

感謝您提出問題，我有兩個問題。首先，您的第三季 EBITDA 成長了 1%，但估計下降了 4%，大致不包括計數減少收益，這比去年有所惡化。那麼您認為實現更好的 EBITDA 業績的主要障礙是什麼？我們如何看待西班牙 2025 年 EBITDA 的軌跡？其次，您提到了 IRU 和 Orange。

Will there be any upfront payments from Orange part of the agreement? And will you include that in your EBITDA and free cash flow and will it count towards guidance?

協議中 Orange 是否會支付任何預付款？您會將其納入您的 EBITDA 和自由現金流中嗎？

Thank you, Keval. On the EBITDA, first, in Spain, it's growing 1% year-on-year in the third quarter. We managed to get it into positive in the final quarter of last year. We guided for growth for the full 2024, and you saw in the first quarter, it was growing 0.2%, the second quarter, 0.6%, in the third quarter, it's growing 1%, and this reflects revenue growth and efficiencies, including the redundancy plan and the copper switch-off. This is improvement or acceleration in the growth rate is on the back of several moving parts.

謝謝你，凱瓦爾。首先，西班牙的 EBITDA 第三季年增 1%。我們在去年最後一個季度成功地實現了盈利。我們指導了 2024 年全年的成長，你看到第一季成長了 0.2%，第二季成長了 0.6%，第三季成長了 1%，這反映了營收成長和效率，包括冗餘計畫和銅線關閉。這是成長率的改善或加速是在幾個活動因素的支持下實現的。

So on one hand, we have the additional revenue, some of them coming with lower margin. On the other hand, we have efficiencies coming from head count resizing and digitalization AI initiatives. We have on the other hand, because one could even expect a bit higher EBITDA growth, we have some elements that are not -- either are annualizing or no longer contributing to growth.

因此，一方面，我們有額外的收入，其中一些利潤率較低。另一方面，我們的效率來自於人員規模調整和數位化人工智慧計畫。另一方面，因為人們甚至可以預期 EBITDA 成長會更高一些，所以我們有一些因素沒有——要么按年計算，要么不再對成長做出貢獻。

So for instance, the energy prices that, in part, we are passing through to customers no longer help or drag in any direction. The price of the content that we are selling in [LaLiga] also have changed, but we had suppressions of fees like the one that we had to finance the TV in Spain.

例如，我們在某種程度上向客戶傳遞的能源價格不再對任何方向有幫助或拖累。我們在[LaLiga]銷售的內容的價格也發生了變化，但我們抑制了費用，就像我們必須為西班牙電視節目提供資金的費用一樣。

So all in all, a lots of moving parts, but EBITDA for Spanish operation to grow. And this, by the way, combined with the stabilization of leases is getting our EBITDAal, EBITDA after leases, into the positive territory, as we said, would be in the second half of the year. We already achieved that in Q3. On the contract regarding Orange, we cannot disclose this type of details. This was a contract that was signed in the month of August.

總而言之，有許多變動因素，但西班牙業務的 EBITDA 仍在成長。順便說一句，加上租賃的穩定，我們的 EBITDAal（租賃後的 EBITDA）將進入正數區域，正如我們所說，將在今年下半年實現。我們已經在第三季實現了這一目標。關於 Orange 的合同，我們無法透露此類細節。這是八月簽訂的合約。

The fiber network agreement replaces deals that we had independently with Orange and with MásMóvil. We are evolving this towards a single relationship on a full nationwide deal. And we have entered into new use IRU's agreements. But there is some CPI indexation, but I cannot disclose more information because of confidentiality clauses in the agreement.

光纖網路協定取代了我們與 Orange 和 MásMóvil 獨立簽訂的協議。我們正在將其發展為在全國範圍內達成全面協議的單一關係。我們已經簽訂了新的使用 IRU 的協議。但有一些CPI指數化，但由於協議中有保密條款，我不能透露更多資訊。

That's understood. Thank you very much.

就這麼理解了。非常感謝。

James Ratzer, New Street Research.

詹姆斯·拉澤，新街研究。

Yes, good morning. Thank you very much. Indeed, for taking the question. I had two questions, please. I suppose you had your centennial celebration back in April of this year when the copper shutdown of the network was a big kind of milestone for you.

是的，早安。非常感謝。確實，為了回答這個問題。我有兩個問題，請問。我想您在今年四月舉行了百年慶典，當時銅纜網路的關閉對您來說是一個重大里程碑。

So what I'd be interested in understanding is, can you help us give an update on how that process is going? How many exchanges have you now shut down? How much of the kind of cost savings from this have you already been able to achieve?

所以我有興趣了解的是，您能幫助我們提供有關該過程進展的最新資訊嗎？你們現在關閉了多少交易所？您已經能夠由此節省多少成本？

And in particular, then how much more could there still be to come over the next few years, cost savings from the copper shutdown? And then secondly, just be interested to understand what's happening with your stake in Telefónica Brasil, because I noticed this quarter, it's now gone up to 76.2%. So it's been gradually increasing over the year. Could you just explain what's going on there? And do you have some target here where you're trying to take your stake in the asset to?

特別是，未來幾年銅礦停產還能節省多少成本？其次，有興趣了解您在 Telefónica Brasil 的股份發生了什麼，因為我注意到這個季度，它現在已經上升到 76.2%。所以這一年以來，它一直在逐漸增加。你能解釋一下那裡發生了什麼事嗎？您是否有一些目標，您想將您所持有的資產股份帶到哪裡？

Thank you, James. I'll take the first question on the copper shutdown. We have already shut down all the retail copper. What we have still pending is with third parties that were whole buying copper from us. We need to have some switches.

謝謝你，詹姆斯。我將回答關於銅礦停產的第一個問題。我們已經關閉了所有銅零售。我們仍然懸而未決的是從我們這裡購買銅的第三方。我們需要一些開關。

But we are leading the copper switch-off in Europe. We have accomplished more than 90% of the shutdown of the copper network. Switching off is the right decision. This has brought us significant savings in terms of OpEx, but also of CapEx. This is allowing us to maintain EBITDA margins above 36% that is quite consistent with what we have been having in the last year and all along this year.

但我們正在引領歐洲的銅停電。我們已經完成了90%以上的銅線網路關閉。關閉是正確的決定。這為我們帶來了營運支出和資本支出的顯著節省。這使我們能夠將 EBITDA 利潤率維持在 36% 以上，這與我們去年和今年的情況非常一致。

With respect to CapEx, our Spanish operation is already benchmark in terms of CapEx to revenues, and we committed in the Capital Markets Day to reach a 10% CapEx of our revenues intensity for the Spanish operation, which would be leading in Europe. We are -- we have behind us the two waves of CapEx that come with a fiber migration.

就資本支出而言，我們的西班牙業務在資本支出與收入之比方面已經成為基準，我們在資本市場日承諾，西班牙業務的資本支出將達到收入強度的 10%，這將在歐洲處於領先地位。我們經歷了伴隨光纖遷移而來的兩波資本支出浪潮。

One is passing and the other one is connecting. We see other players that still need to do the wave of passing. Some others need to do the wave also of connecting.

一個是傳遞，一個是連結。我們看到其他球員仍然需要進行傳球。其他一些也需要進行連接波。

We have both waves behind us. So this allows us to be efficient in terms of energy consumption, in terms of maintenance, in terms of CapEx. And therefore, we were able to commit, and we are on track to this CapEx intensity reduction in the Spanish operation.

我們身後有兩波浪潮。因此，這使我們能夠在能源消耗、維護和資本支出方面保持高效率。因此，我們能夠做出承諾，並且我們正在努力降低西班牙業務的資本支出強度。

That's clear. Do you have any idea of what the kind of still the incremental EBITDA margin upside might be just from the copper shutdown that's still to come?

很清楚。您是否知道，即將到來的銅礦停產可能會帶來什麼樣的 EBITDA 利潤率成長？

Well, we don't guide on CapEx margins per OB, and we don't guide forward-looking CapEx margins per OB. But you should expect us to stay on these levels and on a downward trend on CapEx intensity, which we have been very public about.

嗯，我們不指導每個 OB 的資本支出利潤率，也不指導每個 OB 的前瞻性資本支出利潤率。但您應該預期我們將保持在這些水平，並且資本支出強度呈下降趨勢，我們對此一直非常公開。

Thank you.

謝謝。

The increase in the stake of Brazil is a consequence of the share buyback that Brazil is undertaking. They have recently increased from [EUR1 billion to EUR1.5 billion] and share buyback has become part of their remuneration scheme of Telefónica Brasil. They do a combination of interest on capital, dividends, capital reduction and share buyback. So that's the result of them doing that and automatically our participation in Brazil increases.

巴西股份的增加是巴西正在進行的股票回購的結果。他們最近從 [10 億歐元增加到 15 億歐元]，股票回購已成為 Telefónica Brasil 薪資計畫的一部分。他們將資本利息、股利、資本減少和股票回購結合在一起。這就是他們這樣做的結果，我們對巴西的參與自然增加了。

Is that Laura -- that's a conscious decision to not participate pro rata to your stake. So do you expect that to continue, and therefore, your stake will continue to rise?

那是勞拉嗎？那麼您是否預期這種情況會持續下去，因此您的持股比例會繼續增加？

Say that if -- now it only applies to Brazil. But in general, if I had applied also for Germany, if the companies decide to remunerate through share buyback, our general course of action is not to go for that shares, but just increase. So that is -- I think it's a natural action that we don't take part of that and we just automatically increase.

假設現在它只適用於巴西。但總的來說，如果我也申請了德國，如果公司決定透過股票回購來獲得報酬，我們的一般行動方針不是購買這些股票，而是增加股票。所以，我認為這是一種自然的行為，我們不參與其中，我們只是自動增加。

And even more in the case of Brazil, which the company is doing so well and we see growth there, as I mentioned in one of my questions. But it's more than a conscious decision is that if share buyback is part of the remuneration policy, as this is the case, this will increase automatically and we don't go for those shares.

就巴西而言，情況更是如此，該公司在該地區做得很好，我們看到了那裡的成長，正如我在問題中提到的那樣。但這不僅僅是一個有意識的決定，如果股票回購是薪酬政策的一部分（在這種情況下），那麼這將自動增加，我們不會購買這些股票。

That's great. Thank you very much.

那太棒了。非常感謝。

We have time for one very last question, please.

我們有時間回答最後一個問題。

Joshua Mills, BNPP Exane.

約書亞米爾斯，BNPP Exane。

Hi guys and thank you very much for taking the question First one, very quickly. On the 5G subsidy benefit of EUR300 million, is that something we should expect to continue next year and in subsequent years or is that one-off? I'm just getting a bit of guidance around that specific item would be helpful.

大家好，非常感謝你們很快提出第一個問題。關於 3 億歐元的 5G 補貼，我們是否應該期望明年和隨後幾年繼續享受這種補貼，還是一次性的？我只是獲得一些有關該特定項目的指導，這會很有幫助。

And then secondly, could you just give a quick update on the progress on the Brazilian regulatory changes and when we might get an update there, right? As I understand that it could be quite a meaningful opportunity for you to reallocate capital more efficiently in that market.

其次，您能否快速介紹一下巴西監管變化的進展以及我們何時可以獲得最新消息，對吧？據我了解，這對您來說可能是一個非常有意義的機會，可以在該市場上更有效地重新分配資本。

But some sense of timing and the granularity of the guidance you'd be able to provide once you do get that change would be helpful.

但是，一旦您確實做出了改變，您能夠提供的一些時間感和指導的粒度將會有所幫助。

On the 5G subsidies, it could. It depends on future deployment cases and so on. It has been more concentration in this year and particularly in this quarter. But this is something which is business as usual and it could definitely continue. Probably not at this size, but it really depends on more processes in this line.

在5G補貼方面，可以。這取決於未來的部署案例等等。今年尤其是本季更加集中。但這是一切如常的事情，而且肯定會繼續下去。可能不是這個規模，但它確實取決於該生產線中的更多流程。

And regarding the move from concession to authorization in Brazil, ANATEL approved the agreement already in June, the company's Board of Directors also in June. The proposal is moving from a different regulatory regime that allows the termination of some proceedings and some obligations. This will allow us to dispose of reversible assets. It comes with some commitments for investment, but at the same time gives us lots of flexibility to conduct our business and should be very accretive for our Brazilian business.

至於在巴西從特許權到授權的轉變，ANATEL 已於 6 月批准了該協議，該公司董事會也在 6 月批准了該協議。該提案脫離了允許終止某些程序和某些義務的不同監管制度。這將使我們能夠處置可逆資產。它附帶了一些投資承諾，但同時為我們開展業務提供了很大的靈活性，並且應該對我們的巴西業務非常有利。

We expect it to be finally approved in the fourth-quarter of this year latest, early next year, but we believe it will be fourth quarter of this year.

我們預計它最晚會在今年第四季度，即明年初最終獲得批准，但我們相信會是今年第四季。

Well, thank you very much for attending this call. We expect that we have provided you with answers to your questions. Please address to our IR department any further needs of information that you may have. Thank you.

好的，非常感謝您參加這次電話會議。我們希望能夠為您提供問題的答案。如果您需要任何進一步的信息，請聯繫我們的投資者關係部門。謝謝。

Telefónica's January-September 2024 Results Conference Call is over. You may now disconnect your line. Thank you.

Telefónica 2024 年 1 月至 9 月業績電話會議結束。現在您可以斷開線路。謝謝。