Companhia de Saneamento Basico do Estado de Sao Paulo - SABESP (SBS) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

(video playing) Good morning, and welcome to SABESP's second quarter of 2025 earnings presentation. With us here today are Carlos Piani, CEO; Daniel Szlak, CFO; and Thiago Levy, Investor Relations.

（播放影片）早安，歡迎參加 SABESP 2025 年第二季財報。今天與我們一起出席的有首席執行官卡洛斯·皮亞尼 (Carlos Piani)、首席財務官丹尼爾·斯拉克 (Daniel Szlak) 和投資者關係部蒂亞戈·利維 (Thiago Levy)。

Before we begin, we clarify that the statements made during this presentation will not include projections or estimates of future events. However, they may contain forward-looking statements, indicating potential trends related to SABESP based on the reasonable expectations, beliefs, and assumptions of SABESP's management as of today.

在開始之前，我們要澄清的是，本次演講中的陳述不包括對未來事件的預測或估計。然而，它們可能包含前瞻性陳述，根據 SABESP 管理層截至今天的合理預期、信念和假設，表明與 SABESP 相關的潛在趨勢。

These statements involve risks and uncertainties and are based on assumptions and factors such as market, regulatory, and economic conditions, which may not materialize. In addition to the risk factors disclosed in SABESP's filings with the Brazilian Securities and Exchange Commission, B3 and on its Investor Relations website.

這些聲明涉及風險和不確定性，並且基於市場、監管和經濟條件等假設和因素，這些假設和因素可能不會實現。除了 SABESP 向巴西證券交易委員會、B3 和投資者關係網站提交的文件中揭露的風險因素外。

Investors should understand that changes in such factors may lead to outcomes that differ from current trends and that undue reliance should not be placed on these statements. The full disclaimer will be presented next and must be read carefully by all participants.

投資人應該明白，這些因素的變化可能會導致與當前趨勢不同的結果，因此不應過度依賴這些聲明。接下來將提供完整的免責聲明，所有參與者必須仔細閱讀。

This presentation is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) I will now turn the floor over to Daniel Szlak, who will discuss the results. Daniel, you may proceed.

本次演講正在錄製中。（操作員指示）現在我將把發言權交給 Daniel Szlak，他將討論結果。丹尼爾，你可以繼續了。

Good morning, everyone. Pleasure to be here to present SABESP's Q2 2025 results. I am Daniel Szlak, CFO of the company. Let's kick it off with an overview of today's agenda. We'll start with financial and operational highlights and move into our strategic focus areas with our CEO, Carlos Piani, and finally, open the floor for Q&A.

大家早安。很高興在這裡介紹 SABESP 2025 年第二季的業績。我是 Daniel Szlak，公司財務長。讓我們先來概述一下今天的議程。我們將從財務和營運亮點開始，然後與我們的執行長 Carlos Piani 一起進入我們的策略重點領域，最後進行問答。

We saw solid operational performance in Q2 with water production increasing 4.8% year-on-year, reaching 814 million cubic meters. Active water connections grew 0.8% and sewage connections rose 1.1%. These gains reflect our continued efforts in expanding access and improving service delivery.

第二季度，公司營運表現穩健，產水量較去年同期成長4.8%，達8.14億立方公尺。活躍供水連接量增加了 0.8%，污水處理連接量增加了 1.1%。這些成果體現了我們在擴大服務範圍和改善服務提供方面不斷做出的努力。

Turning to financials. Adjusted net revenue reached BRL5.6 billion, up 3% year-on-year, while adjusted EBITDA grew 22% to BRL3.6 billion with a margin of 64%. This reflects our ongoing efforts at improving operational efficiency to free up resources to invest in our universal access program for the next years.

轉向財務。調整後淨收入達 56 億雷亞爾，年增 3%，調整後 EBITDA 成長 22% 至 36 億雷亞爾，利潤率為 64%。這體現了我們為提高營運效率所做的持續努力，以釋放資源用於未來幾年的普遍接觸計畫投資。

Reported net income surged 77% to BRL2.1 billion, and cash flow from operations increased 79% to BRL3.2 billion. These results reflect strong execution and financial discipline.

報告淨收入飆升 77% 至 21 億巴西雷亞爾，經營現金流成長 79% 至 32 億巴西雷亞爾。這些結果體現了強而有力的執行力和財務紀律。

Going to the next slide, we bridge between reported and adjusted figures. On the revenue front, adjustments include construction and the financial asset bifurcation. At the EBITDA level, we're also adjusting for the sale of a group of smaller Precatorios that took place in April. Adjusted EBITDA and net revenue provide a clearer view of our core performance with 2.9% and 22% year-on-year growth, respectively.

進入下一張投影片，我們將報告的數字和調整後的數字連結起來。在收入方面，調整包括建設和金融資產分叉。在 EBITDA 層面，我們也對 4 月出售的一批較小 Precatorio 進行了調整。調整後的 EBITDA 和淨收入分別年增 2.9% 和 22%，更清楚地反映了我們的核心表現。

Revenue growth was driven by tariff adjustments and volume expansion with partial offsets from FAUUSP and mix. Volume growth contributed 3.5%, supported by 1.5% from new connections for the aggregate of water and sewage. Additionally, we saw 2% in increased consumption in the quarter despite slightly lower temperatures in São Paulo state in the period versus last year. As a reference, historical consumption increase in the past three years for Q2 has been 3.2%.

收入成長主要由關稅調整和銷售擴張推動，部分抵消了 FAUUSP 和產品組合的影響。總量成長貢獻了 3.5%，其中 1.5% 來自水和污水處理新增連接的推動。此外，儘管本季度聖保羅州的氣溫與去年同期相比略有下降，但本季的消費量仍增加了 2%。作為參考，過去三年第二季的消費量成長率為3.2%。

Breaking down the revenue dynamics, average prices rose by 5%, largely due to tariff carryover in April and May, from May's 2024 tariff cycle, while in June, we saw a tariff decline driven by July 2024, 1% tariff decrease. In addition to that, we also continue to benefit from the removal of this comes to the first cohort of large clients with prices rising an average 47% versus Q4 2024.

細分收入動態，平均價格上漲了 5%，這主要是由於 4 月和 5 月的關稅結轉（來自 5 月的 2024 年關稅週期），而 6 月，我們看到關稅下降，這是受 2024 年 7 月 1% 關稅下降的推動。除此之外，我們也持續受惠於第一批大客戶的取消，與 2024 年第四季相比，價格平均上漲了 47%。

As mentioned in Q1 '25 call, we have also terminated more contracts, and we'll start seeing the benefit of them throughout H2. On the mix topic, it was impacted by the growth in the number of subsidized residential units, notably with the expansion of clients eligible for discounts.

正如我們在 2025 年第一季度電話會議中提到的那樣，我們還終止了更多合同，並且我們將在下半年開始看到它們帶來的好處。在組合主題方面，它受到補貼住宅單位數量增長的影響，特別是有資格享受折扣的客戶數量的擴大。

In July 2025, we saw the approval by the concession of the extension for 18 months of subsidies to current clients that do not fit the CADÚNICO rules. And the introduction of a new intermediary discount class called Tarifa Paulista, which will further help consumers in vulnerable situations.

2025 年 7 月，我們看到特許經營機構批准將對不符合 CADÃNICO 規則的現有客戶的補貼延長 18 個月。並推出名為「Tarifa Paulista」的全新中介折扣類別，將進一步幫助處於弱勢的消費者。

EBITDA growth was driven by price and discipline in cost control. On the cost front, we have been communicating that we would be changing the conduction in legal claims, outsourcing an important part to specialized external counsel and implementing settlements. This has contributed about BRL200 million in EBITDA year-on-year for this quarter.

EBITDA 的成長是由價格和成本控制紀律推動的。在成本方面，我們一直在傳達我們將改變法律索賠的處理方式，將重要部分外包給專業的外部律師並實施和解。這為本季的 EBITDA 貢獻了約 2 億巴西雷亞爾。

Deep diving into personnel, expenses fell 10.3% year-on-year despite a 5.5% increase derived from the collective bargain with our unions. This was mostly driven by an 11% reduction in headcount from 2023 and 2024 voluntary dismissal plans, which have been substantially captured in June. These measures are part of our broader efficiency strategy.

深入研究人員情況，儘管與工會達成的集體談判導致費用增加 5.5%，但費用年減 10.3%。這主要是由於 2023 年和 2024 年自願解僱計畫的員工人數減少了 11%，該數字已在 6 月大幅下降。這些措施是我們更廣泛的效率策略的一部分。

Net income rose 77% year-on-year, reaching BRL2.1 billion. The key drivers include the financial asset bifurcation, lower amortization from the extended concession agreement, and the interest and monetary correction driven by the reversal of legal accruals I mentioned before. This was partially offset by lapping a prior year lower effective tax rate.

淨收入年增77%，達到21億巴西雷亞爾。關鍵驅動因素包括金融資產分叉、延長特許協議帶來的較低攤銷以及我之前提到的法定應計項目逆轉而導致的利息和貨幣調整。這被上一年較低的有效稅率部分抵銷。

Going to one of our most important commitments and a fundamental pillar for our next five-year strategy, CapEx totaled BRL3.6 billion in Q2 2025, a 178% increase year-on-year and a 26% acceleration versus Q1 figures. We're ahead of schedule on our '24 and '25 U-Factor targets with water units target already met and 86% of sewage collection and 51% of sewage treatment delivered.

作為我們最重要的承諾之一和下一個五年策略的基本支柱，2025 年第二季的資本支出總額達到 36 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 178%，比第一季成長 26%。我們提前實現了 24 年和 25 年的 U 因子目標，水單位目標已經實現，污水收集率達到 86%，污水處理率達到 51%。

To bring more color to the financial figures, our main programs, including Integra Tiete, Coastal Works, and São Paulo Metro region, among others. As an example, we're increasing treatment capacity by 68%, adding 17 cubic meters per second across our top five sewage treatment plants like Barueri. Our leverage continues to be under control with no effective exposure to currency, given our foreign-denominated debt is fully swapped.

為了讓財務數據增添更多色彩，我們的主要項目包括 Integra Tiete、Coastal Works 和聖保羅大都會地區等。例如，我們將巴魯埃里等五大污水處理廠的處理能力提高了 68%，每秒增加了 17 立方公尺。由於我們的外幣債務已完全互換，我們的槓桿率繼續受到控制，沒有有效的貨幣風險。

We closed July with four years of debt amortization in cash on hand, which we expect to deploy throughout the next months as we advance the CapEx agenda. 53% of our debt now matures from 2030 onwards, improving our long-term profile. Key financial ratios continue to improve. ROIC reached 13% and ROE 15%, while net debt to adjusted EBITDA remains conservative at 1.9 times, reflecting the strength of our balance sheet and operating model.

截至 7 月底，我們手頭上有四年債務攤銷的現金，預計在接下來的幾個月中，隨著我們推進資本支出議程，我們將使用這些現金。目前，我們的 53% 債務將於 2030 年及以後到期，這將改善我們的長期狀況。關鍵財務比率持續改善。ROIC 達到 13%，ROE 達到 15%，而淨債務與調整後 EBITDA 比率仍保持在 1.9 倍的保守水平，反映了我們資產負債表和營運模式的強勁。

Finally, a quick update on the tariff cycle as we had many inbound questions. We have submitted to assess the data for our 2024 RAB and expect to hear back by end of September, after which we will have the final tariff adjustment by December 1. This will become public information and be effective by January 1, 2026.

最後，由於我們收到了很多問題，因此我們快速更新關稅週期。我們已經提交了 2024 年 RAB 數據的評估，預計將於 9 月底收到回复，之後我們將在 12 月 1 日之前進行最終的關稅調整。這將成為公共資訊並於 2026 年 1 月 1 日生效。

The main topics of that iteration will be the net additions to the RAB, 2024's pass-through expenses, compensation adjustments from the last 2019-2023 forward-looking cycle on nonexecuted CapEx, adjusted 2024 histogram, and the contractual amendment signed in December 2024. I will now pass the floor to our CEO, Mr. Carlos Piani. Piani, the floor is yours.

此迭代的主要主題將是 RAB 的淨增加、2024 年的轉嫁費用、上一個 2019-2023 年前瞻性週期中未執行資本支出的薪酬調整、調整後的 2024 年直方圖以及 2024 年 12 月簽署的合約修訂。現在我將發言權交給我們的執行長卡洛斯·皮亞尼先生。皮亞尼，現在輪到你了。

Thanks again, Daniel. Let's now move to the next section of our presentation and review the highlights of our focus areas. Starting with slide 18. Our strategy remains focused on three priorities: meeting new concession agreement challenges through faster universalization and regulatory compliance; raising operating standards in quality, reliability, and customer service; and boosting financial efficiency while strengthening people, technology and processes for long-term success.

再次感謝你，丹尼爾。現在讓我們進入演示的下一部分，回顧一下我們重點關注領域的亮點。從投影片 18 開始。我們的策略仍然集中在三個優先事項：透過更快的普遍化和監管合規來應對新的特許協議挑戰；提高品質、可靠性和客戶服務的營運標準；提高財務效率，同時加強人員、技術和流程，以取得長期成功。

Now turning to slide 19 and our latest operational updates. CapEx execution continues to accelerate. In the second quarter, we invested BRL3.6 billion, bringing our last 12-month total to BRL10.6 billion. Our backlog now stands at BRL35 billion across 542 projects, which are scheduled to be executed until the end of 2029.

現在翻到第 19 張投影片，介紹我們最新的營運更新。資本支出執行持續加速。第二季度，我們投資了 36 億雷亞爾，使我們過去 12 個月的投資總額達到 106 億雷亞爾。目前，我們的積壓項目已達 542 個，總金額達 350 億巴西雷亞爾，這些項目計劃於 2029 年底前完工。

On the regulatory side, we've maintained our positive track record. Around 70% of injunctions from large clients related to legacy discounts have been overruled in our favor. This remains one of our main initiatives to close the revenue gap.

在監管方面，我們保持了良好的記錄。大約 70% 的與遺留折扣相關的大客戶禁令均被我們駁回。這仍然是我們縮小收入差距的主要舉措之一。

Operationally, we've seen significant improvements in the client service front quarter-over-quarter. 18% reduction in complaints about water shortages, 23% reduction in water leaks reported by the population, and a 42% reduction in the average time for pavement restoration.

在營運方面，我們看到客戶服務方面每季都有顯著改善。缺水投訴減少了 18%，居民報告的漏水事件減少了 23%，路面修復平均時間減少了 42%。

On the energy efficiency front, we commissioned 32 photovoltaic plants with 44-megawatt peak of install capacity, which we expect to generate annual savings of BRL44 million per year. By the end of 2026, we expect to increase the total number to 44 plants with 60-megawatt peak of installed capacity.

在能源效率方面，我們委託建造了 32 座光電站，安裝容量高峰為 44 兆瓦，預計每年可節省 4,400 萬巴西雷亞爾。到 2026 年底，我們預計發電廠總數將增加至 44 座，裝置容量高峰為 60 兆瓦。

On the commercial front, our metering upgrade program is starting to gain traction with 225,000 new units installed in the quarter, 10% more than in Q1. In addition, SABESP recently signed a BRL3.8 billion turnkey contract that will cover the replacement of 4.4 million meters with smart IoT-enabled units by 2029. A landmark move in leveraging data accuracy and advanced infrastructure capabilities.

在商業方面，我們的計量升級計劃開始獲得關注，本季安裝了 225,000 個新裝置，比第一季增加了 10%。此外，SABESP 最近簽署了一份價值 38 億巴西雷亞爾的交鑰匙合同，該合約涵蓋到 2029 年用支援智慧物聯網的設備更換 440 萬個電錶。利用數據準確性和先進基礎設施能力的里程碑式舉措。

One of our most important goals on the commercial front is to protect and secure our revenues. In this regard, we became the first utility in Brazil to operate with automatic fixed payments that is recurring fixed transactions. We also began operating with smart POS machines in the field. And in May, launched our customer service channel through WhatsApp. This new channel is already delivering promising results, which I will detail on the next page.

我們在商業方面最重要的目標之一是保護和確保我們的收入。在這方面，我們成為巴西第一家採用自動固定付款（即定期固定交易）營運的公用事業公司。我們也開始在現場運作智慧POS機。並於5月透過WhatsApp推出了我們的客戶服務管道。這個新管道已經取得了可喜的成果，我將在下一頁詳細介紹。

And in the cost management front, ZBB initiatives deliver concrete results. Standardization of global maintenance contracts, craft of a legal settlement strategy to streamline legal processes, optimization of chemical use, improvement of meter reading processes, and prioritization of pump replacements. This leads us to slide 20, which focuses on our technology-driven customer service initiatives.

在成本管理方面，零基預算計畫取得了實質的成果。全球維護合約的標準化、制定法律解決策略以簡化法律流程、優化化學品使用、改進抄表流程以及確定泵浦更換的優先順序。這引出了第 20 張投影片，重點介紹了我們的技術驅動的客戶服務計劃。

Our recently created customer service WhatsApp channel has now handled over 3 million conversations and collected BRL96 million with an average satisfaction rating of 4.52. We're proud to be the first utility in the world to process payments through WhatsApps also using Meta's proprietary technology.

我們最近創建的 WhatsApp 客戶服務頻道已處理超過 300 萬次對話，收入達 9,600 萬巴西雷亞爾，平均滿意度為 4.52。我們很榮幸成為全球首家使用 Meta 專有技術透過 WhatsApp 處理支付的公用事業公司。

We've also expanded digital service, adding second copies of invoices, facial authentication, PIX and credit card payments, and conversational AI, bringing faster, more personalized, more accessible customer interactions. All these results were achieved in just the past 60 days. While new Smart POS enables payments directly at the customer's location from PIX or credit card in up to 24 installments, helping avoid immediate disconnections, providing convenience and ensuring secure, fast, and inclusive transactions.

我們還擴展了數位服務，增加了發票第二份、臉部認證、PIX 和信用卡支付以及對話式 AI，帶來更快、更個人化、更易於存取的客戶互動。所有這些成果都是在過去60天裡取得的。而新的智慧 POS 則支援客戶直接透過 PIX 或信用卡在當地分期付款，最多可分 24 期，有助於避免立即斷網，提供便利並確保交易的安全、快速和包容性。

Finally, on slide 21, let's reflect on our first year post privatization. As mentioned by Daniel, our universalization targets are progressing at accelerated pace. In total, over 1.3 million people gain access to water, 1.4 million people gain access to sewage treatment in this first cycle.

最後，在第 21 張投影片上，讓我們回顧一下私有化後的第一年。正如丹尼爾所說，我們的普及目標正在加速前進。首輪工程共超過130萬人獲得供水，140萬人獲得污水處理服務。

Now more than 5 million people benefit from affordable tariffs, including the new Tarifa Social Paulista. And our CapEx program has induced the creation of more than 7,500 direct jobs in our construction sites alone. In summary, the second quarter demonstrates that our transformation is on track. We're scaling infrastructure, improving service quality, enhancing customer experience, strengthening our financial position, and delivering tangible social and environmental benefits.

現在，包括新建的塔里法社會保利斯塔在內的超過 500 萬人享受了可負擔的電費。我們的資本支出計畫僅在建築工地就創造了超過 7,500 個直接就業機會。總而言之，第二季度顯示我們的轉型正在步入正軌。我們正在擴大基礎設施，提高服務質量，增強客戶體驗，加強財務狀況，並提供實際的社會和環境效益。

That is all for now. But before we move to the Q&A session, there will be a 1-minute video that we would like to share with you. Thank you.

目前就這些了。但在進入問答環節之前，我們想與大家分享一段 1 分鐘的影片。謝謝。

(video playing)

（影片播放）

(Operator Instructions) Luiza Candiota, Itau BBA.

（操作員說明）Luiza Candiota，Itau BBA。

Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity. So could you give us more details on the OpEx performance this quarter? We saw basically all cost lines showing a significant reduction on both yearly and quarterly basis. So I'd like to understand what we can expect going forward in terms of recurring level not only looking at the personnel expenses, but also third parties materials and mainly in general expenses? That's my first question.

早安，感謝您給我這個機會。那麼您能否向我們提供有關本季營運支出表現的更多詳細資訊？我們發現基本上所有成本項目都呈現年度和季度大幅下降的趨勢。因此，我想了解一下，就經常性支出而言，我們可以期待什麼，不僅包括人事費用，還包括第三方材料以及主要的一般費用？這是我的第一個問題。

And secondly, if you could also provide more details on what you mentioned in the beginning of the presentation regarding the evolution of the social tariff and its potential impact in the coming quarters? That's it from our side.

其次，您是否可以就您在演講開始時提到的社會關稅的演變及其在未來幾季的潛在影響提供更多細節？從我們的角度來看就是這樣的。

Thank you, Luiza. Daniel here. Thank you for your questions. Talking about the OpEx, right, first. Look, we have a mission to invest BRL70 billion in the next five years. which is more than the -- and if you think about that on a yearly basis, thinking about BRL14 billion, it's more than what the company generates in terms of profit up until 2024.

謝謝你，路易莎。這裡是丹尼爾。感謝您的提問。首先談談營運支出 (OpEx)。你看，我們的使命是在未來五年內投資 700 億雷亞爾。如果你按年計算，考慮到 140 億雷亞爾，這比公司到 2024 年產生的利潤還要多。

So the efficiency program that we're putting in place is an important part of how we source that money to invest. So looking at all the lines and no line is not subject questioning here as we do that job. So when we think about all these lines, right, so the first one being personnel. This one is a reflection of the voluntary dismissal plan that we've executed in the late 2024, early 2025.

因此，我們正在實施的效率計劃是我們籌集投資資金的重要組成部分。因此，在我們做這項工作時，查看所有的線條和沒有線條並不是主題質疑。因此，當我們考慮所有這些線路時，對的，第一個線路是人員。這是我們在 2024 年底、2025 年初實施的自願解僱計畫的體現。

As we mentioned in the last quarter call, we saw a lever's curve throughout the first half. So we saw a positive effect from that, almost BRL70 million, give or take.

正如我們在上個季度電話會議中提到的那樣，我們在整個上半年都看到了槓桿曲線。因此，我們看到了積極的影響，大約有 7000 萬巴西雷亞爾。

In the remaining lines, like we've been communicating to the market, right, there is no one silver bullet. There are many, many, many initiatives that we're pursuing. And when we think about them, we're starting to see a combination of them coming to fruit. And we'll see those initiatives ramping up or ramping down depending on how they progress. So we'll see impacts on all lines.

在剩下的方面，就像我們一直在向市場傳達的那樣，沒有萬靈藥。我們正在推行很多很多的舉措。當我們思考它們時，我們開始看到它們的結合正在結出果實。我們將看到這些舉措根據其進展而加強或減弱。因此，我們將看到所有線路上的影響。

On power, we've been increasing our percentage on the free market. For example, we're above 70% on the free market today on our consumption as of June. So we're really making progress on all fronts.

在電力方面，我們一直在增加自由市場的份額。例如，截至 6 月份，我們的消費在自由市場的比例已超過 70%。因此，我們確實在各個方面都取得了進展。

There's one specific item that we've highlighted as well, which is the reversal of legal accruals. As we've been communicating proactively to the market, as a company that's no longer an SOE, we have more degrees of freedom to operate inside this line.

我們也強調了一個具體事項，即法律應計項目的逆轉。由於我們一直在積極與市場溝通，作為一家不再是國有企業的公司，我們在這一領域擁有更大的營運自由。

So we are able to make settlements proactively. We're able to outsource the conduction of legal claims and so on and so forth. And these are starting to bear fruit as we saw in Q2, and we expect that to continue helping in the future.

因此我們能夠主動解決問題。我們能夠將法律索賠的執行等外包出去。正如我們在第二季度看到的那樣，這些措施已開始取得成效，我們預計這些措施將在未來繼續發揮作用。

So when we think about the expenses, we try to avoid giving guidance, right? But in the end, the sense of urgency is here in terms of how we materialize the cost savings and initiatives that aim to improve the efficiency of the company.

因此，當我們考慮費用時，我們會盡量避免給予指導，對嗎？但最終，緊迫感在於我們如何實現成本節約和旨在提高公司效率的措施。

When we think about the mix, right, which is the Cadastro Único, right, let's rewind the movie a little bit. When we think about the company last year had a mechanism whereby it gave discounts to about 900,000 economies and in October, the company adopted the Cadastro Único eligibility criteria, which -- and we had an overlap of the two mechanisms up until the end of November.

當我們考慮混合時，對，也就是 Cadastro Ãnico，對，讓我們稍微倒回一下電影。我們想想，去年該公司有一種機制，為大約 90 萬個經濟體提供折扣，10 月份，該公司採用了 Cadastro Ãnico 資格標準，並且直到 11 月底，這兩種機制都有重疊。

So when we did that, we reached almost 1.4 million, 1.5 million economies in discounts. And then when we turned off the old mechanism for discounts, we saw that drop to about 1 million, 1 million unchanged. So we saw that there were a lot of people that still needed those discounts that were no longer eligible to them with the new Cadastro Único rule.

因此，當我們這樣做時，我們達到了近 140 萬到 150 萬的折扣經濟。然後，當我們關閉舊的折扣機制時，我們看到這個數字下降到大約 100 萬，100 萬保持不變。因此，我們發現許多人仍然需要那些折扣，但新的 Cadastro Ãnico 規則出台後，他們不再有資格享受這些折扣。

So what we did at our own expense and at the shareholders' expense was to give these discounts and to communicate to the concession that need. And throughout the first half, we saw about 1.5 million economies that were eligible for discounts when we kept both criteria in Q1 and almost 1.8 million economies in Q2, as we communicated in the release.

因此，我們自費並由股東承擔費用，提供這些折扣，並向特許經營方傳達此需求。正如我們在新聞稿中所述，在整個上半年，當我們在第一季同時滿足這兩個標準時，大約有 150 萬個經濟體有資格享受折扣，而在第二季度，大約有 180 萬個經濟體有資格享受折扣。

So when we look at those two figures and what happened later on, which was the approval of Tarifa Paulista and the extension of 18 months for discounts for the clients that are eligible to vulnerable and social tariffs, we saw in Q1 a BRL40 million mix impact incremental to the CadÚnico criteria, and we saw BRL130 million in Q2 incremental to the CadÚnico criteria.

因此，當我們查看這兩個數字以及隨後發生的事情時，即塔里法保利斯塔的批准以及將有資格享受弱勢群體和社會關稅的客戶的折扣延長 18 個月，我們在第一季度看到對 CadÃnico 標準的混合影響增加了 4000 萬巴西雷亞爾，在第二季度我們看到對 Cad3 的混合影響增加了巴西雷亞爾，在第二季度 1.3 巴西 1.30 億標準的混合影響。

So in total, the company invested BRL170 million in the population for the first six months that are now from July onwards, going to be compensated in the tariff cycle. This is going to happen just to make sure that the timing is right. This is going to happen in January 2027 when we issue the tariff cycle with the market of 2025, which is going to be in 2026. So just to keep in mind.

因此，總體而言，該公司在 7 月開始的六個月內向民眾投資了 1.7 億雷亞爾，並將在關稅週期內獲得補償。發生這種情況只是為了確保時機正確。這將在 2027 年 1 月發生，屆時我們將發布 2025 年市場的關稅週期，也就是 2026 年。所以只要記住即可。

That said, when we look at the financials of the company in the second half, we'll continue to see that impact, but this impact is going to be compensated in the tariff that's going to be effective January 1, 2027.

也就是說，當我們查看公司下半年的財務狀況時，我們將繼續看到這種影響，但這種影響將在 2027 年 1 月 1 日生效的關稅中得到補償。

Giuliano Ajeje, UBS.

瑞銀的 Giuliano Ajeje。

So my question is about the universalization CapEx. So SABESP has a target of over 1 million new sewage connections for the cycle, '24 and '25. However, by the second quarter, only about half of the target has been delivered, implying that the company would need to complete 5,000 new connections in the second half, which is 3 times the pace achieved so far. So we understand that the sewage treatment connections might be delivered in large blocks as the treatment capacity is expanded.

我的問題是關於通用化資本支出。因此，SABESP 的目標是在 24 至 25 年間新建超過 100 萬個污水管。然而，截至第二季度，僅完成了約一半的目標，這意味著該公司需要在下半年完成 5,000 個新連接，這是迄今為止的三倍。因此我們理解，隨著處理能力的擴大，污水處理連接可能會分批交付。

So two questions here. Number one, so first, if this explanation is correct? And second, which projects still need to be completed into 2025? What percentage of competition has they reached? And when are they expected to be delivered?

這裡有兩個問題。第一，那麼首先，這個解釋是否正確？第二，到2025年還有哪些專案需要完成？他們的競爭程度達到了多少？預計什麼時候交付？

Also, guys, if you also could do another question, I would like to have more information about the materials reduction of the OpEx. Okay. So two questions, materials and the first one about the CapEx of universalization.

另外，夥計們，如果你們還可以問另一個問題，我想獲得有關營運支出材料減少的更多資訊。好的。所以有兩個問題，材料和第一個關於普及的資本支出的問題。

Giuliano, thanks for your question. I'll take the first one. Daniel will take the second one. So we have basically three types of goals; water coverage, sewage collection coverage, and the sewage treatment coverage. The treatment, the last one is the most challenging one because we need to expand our treatment capacity to treat units already connected to the sewage collection network.

朱利亞諾，謝謝你的提問。我要第一個。丹尼爾將獲得第二個。因此，我們基本上有三種類型的目標：水覆蓋率、污水收集覆蓋率和污水處理覆蓋率。最後一步是處理，這是最具挑戰性的一步，因為我們需要擴大處理能力，以處理已經連接到污水收集網路的裝置。

We're more advanced than what we imagined for this time of the year. So we're not concerned about this challenge about the 1 million. We're roughly 18 months on because our target started at beginning of 2024. Our goal is measured by the end of 2025. We still have roughly based on the data that we have provided for the end of the quarter, 500,000 units to be connected.

我們比我們想像的今年這個時候的進步要大得多。所以我們並不擔心這一百萬的挑戰。我們的目標從 2024 年初開始，所以現在已經過了大約 18 個月。我們的目標是到2025年底實現。根據我們在本季末提供的數據，我們大約還有 50 萬個單位需要連接。

And we're above pace. We're going to probably reach this only on the fourth quarter because, as you mentioned, we're going to connect by bulks. So give me a little bit more detail. This is going to be concentrated connecting units in the northern part of our -- of the metropolitan region of São Paulo, namely Guarulhos.

而且我們已經超越了速度。我們可能要到第四季度才能達到這個目標，因為正如您所說，我們將透過批量連接。請給我更多一些細節。這將集中連接我們聖保羅大都會區北部的單位，即瓜魯柳斯。

We have 15 projects that concentrate most of these units are going to be connected by year-end. You're going to see this evolution based on the transparency agreements that we have signed commitment with the concession contracts, so we're going to publish this few time. But I will tell you, I'm not concerned of this, but it's going to be at the very end.

我們有15個項目，其中大部分單位將在年底前完成連接。您將看到這種基於我們與特許合約簽署的承諾透明度協議的演變，因此我們將發布這幾次。但我會告訴你，我並不擔心這個，但它將會在最後出現。

So we have 15 projects located in the north region of the metropolitan region. They are going to provide us these 500,000 connections. And taking into account as well that we're pacing even better on the water and the sewage collection targets, these connections will also provide material to this other target.

因此，我們在大都會區域的北部地區有 15 個項目。他們將為我們提供這 500,000 個連接。並且考慮到我們在水和污水收集目標方面進展得更好，這些連接也將為另一個目標提供素材。

So every new connection of sewage collection in an area where sewage is already treated becomes an additional unit for sewage treatment. So we're advancing on the two fronts. Even if we reach the target, we're going to go over and above because this will -- will help -- the treatment sewage go as well. Daniel, the second part?

因此，在已經進行污水處理的區域，每個新的污水收集連接都會成為額外的污水處理單元。因此我們在兩個方面都取得了進展。即使我們達到了目標，我們也會付出更多努力，因為這將有助於污水處理。丹尼爾，第二部分？

Sure. Thank you, Giuliano. In the materials line, specifically for that and for chemicals, what we've been doing, right, SABESP was formed 52 years ago as a union of many companies. And for many, many years, we still had -- and Débora says that we still had the SABESPians which was -- the units had a lot of operational difference and freedom, and there was little standardization as an operation.

當然。謝謝你，朱利亞諾。在材料生產線上，特別是化學品方面，我們一直在做的事情是，SABESP 成立於 52 年前，是許多公司的聯盟。多年來，我們仍然有 — — 黛博拉說我們仍然有 SABESPians — — 各個部隊在行動上存在很大差異和自由，而且在行動上幾乎沒有標準化。

So what we've been doing, right, we've named two different roles here. We have a head for water, head for sewage. And we've started standardizing how we work across the network in terms of how we apply materials and how we do things. And we're starting to see the fruit of that.

所以我們一直在做的是，對的，我們在這裡命名了兩個不同的角色。我們有頭向水，有頭向污水。我們已經開始標準化整個網路的工作方式，包括我們如何應用材料以及如何做事。我們開始看到其成果。

In parallel, we've also enhanced our procurement team, and we have less constraints and no longer be an SOE, also to operate differently in how we do the procurement and so on and so forth. So I think it's a combination of the two things, that is starting to show results and to help us drive better savings.

同時，我們也加強了採購團隊，我們的限制減少了，不再是國營企業，採購方式也改變了等等。所以我認為這是兩件事的結合，它開始顯現成果並幫助我們實現更好的儲蓄。

Okay. Excellent. Daniel, just one question here. Yes. So the company will keep the CapEx base of BRL3.5 billion per quarter?

好的。出色的。丹尼爾，我只想問一個問題。是的。那麼公司每季的資本支出基數將維持在 35 億巴西雷亞爾嗎？

No. I think probably, yes. Probably the profile of the CapEx will change through time, and we're going to see minor differences on the level of CapEx. We started -- the first thing that we did was the expansion of the big -- the largest sewage treatment plants to deal exactly with the treatment goal that you mentioned. Through time, we're going to finish those expansions, and we're going to have shorter cycles of CapEx, usually making smaller connections in the countryside of São Paulo.

不。我想可能是的。資本支出的概況可能會隨著時間的推移而變化，我們將看到資本支出水準上的細微差別。我們開始—我們做的第一件事就是擴大最大的污水處理廠，以實現您提到的處理目標。隨著時間的推移，我們將完成這些擴張，我們的資本支出週期將縮短，通常會在聖保羅的鄉村地區建立較小的連結。

So we're probably going to see a change of the profile of the CapEx and probably maintaining the same level. That's my educated guess today.

因此，我們可能會看到資本支出狀況的變化，並且可能保持相同的水平。這是我今天的有根據的猜測。

But I think just to present, I think the law of the average is a good application of how you think about our CapEx for the next five years with law of the average of the -- by quarter. So it's a good way to think.

但我認為，就目前而言，我認為平均定律很好地應用了你如何根據季度平均定律來考慮未來五年的資本支出。所以這是一個很好的思考方式。

Guilherme Lima, Santander.

吉列爾梅·利馬，桑坦德銀行。

Just a follow-up in the OpEx question. Just in the general and administrative line in the sheet, you have a negative BRL50 million expense. We assume this line was impacted by a reversal of provision of BRL200 million. Is that correct?

這只是 OpEx 問題的後續跟進。光是表格中的一般和行政管理項目中，就有一筆負 5,000 萬巴西雷亞爾的支出。我們假設這條線路受到了 2 億巴西雷亞爾撥備逆轉的影響。對嗎？

Can we expect this line to come above BRL200 million -- negative BRL200 million from now on? In the first quarter '25, it was close to negative BRL260 million. It just to help us to have an idea what could be a recurring level for this general and administrative line in the sheet.

我們是否可以預期這條線從現在起將超過 2 億雷亞爾——即負 2 億雷亞爾？2025 年第一季度，虧損接近負 2.6 億巴西雷亞爾。它只是為了幫助我們了解工作表中這條一般和管理線的重複程度是什麼。

And the second question is in the bigger consumer tariff discounts, you reported BRL111 million gains in the quarter with few discounts. In the first quarter '25, there was a BRL100 million gain, closing first half '25 with BRL211 million gain. Can we expect the second half '25 to have a similar gain with the first half '25? Or we should see this gain accelerating from now on? And what could be this gain in the second half of 2025?

第二個問題是，在消費者關稅折扣較大的情況下，你們報告本季在折扣較少的情況下實現了 1.11 億巴西雷亞爾的收益。25 年第一季獲利 1 億雷亞爾，25 年上半年獲利 2.11 億雷亞爾。我們是否可以預期 2025 年下半年會達到與上半年類似的成長？還是從現在起我們應該看到這種成長加速？那麼 2025 年下半年的收益會是多少呢？

Good question, Guilherme. Look, talking about the expenses first. On the expense front, yes, you have BRL200 million reversal of legal accruals. And on top of that, when you compare year-on-year, you also have more municipal funds for about BRL100 million, which are driven from the fact that we've anticipated the municipal funds last year.

問得好，吉列爾梅。你看，先說費用。在支出方面，是的，您有 2 億巴西雷亞爾的法定應計費用逆轉。除此之外，與去年同期相比，市政資金還增加了約 1 億巴西雷亞爾，這是因為我們去年已經預期了市政資金。

So we will see less of that. If you look at Q1, you see the exact same number when you think about year-on-year effect, okay? So that's point number one on the expense, okay?

因此，我們見到的這種情況會減少。如果您查看第一季度，當您考慮同比效應時，您會看到完全相同的數字，好嗎？這是關於費用的第一點，好嗎？

On the revenue, we've removed the discounts from our first cohort, which was at the end of last year. And we're seeing the benefit of that in Q2, and we saw some of that in Q1. We're at the running rate here. We have some injunctions that were filed that we're still fighting in court, but this is a small amount.

在收入方面，我們已經取消了去年年底第一批客戶的折扣。我們在第二季度看到了它的好處，並且在第一季也看到了一些好處。我們目前正處於運行狀態。我們已提交了一些禁令，目前仍在法庭上抗爭，但金額很小。

What we've done, and we've communicated that also at our Q1 call, we've also removed discounts from more clients -- from the majority of the clients. But this also had a cure period of how long it will take the discounts to actually be removed. So 60 days, 90 days, 120 days. So as we go and as we have the measurement cycle, the metering cycles from our readers, we will also start seeing the capture of the second cycle of discount removal until the end of the year. So we'll see a ramp-up of that in the second half. That's our expectation as of today.

我們所做的，以及我們在第一季電話會議上傳達的訊息，我們也取消了更多客戶——大多數客戶的折扣。但這也有一個解決期，就是折扣實際取消需要多長時間。所以是 60 天、90 天、120 天。因此，隨著我們的進展和測量週期的推移，以及讀者的計量週期的推移，我們也將開始看到第二個折扣取消週期的到來，直到年底。因此我們將在下半年看到這一趨勢的上升。這是我們今天的期望。

Daniel Travitsky, Safra.

丹尼爾·特拉維茨基，薩夫拉。

Hello, guys for the opportunity. So I have two questions. First, can you give us more information on the reasons why we had an increase on delinquency rates in this quarter, just to understand a little bit more. And secondly, if you could give us more details on the initiative of smart metering agreement you have closed this quarter, would be very nice.

大家好，這是個機會。我有兩個問題。首先，您能否向我們提供更多有關本季度拖欠率上升的原因的信息，以便我們能夠進一步了解。其次，如果您能向我們提供有關本季度達成的智能計量協議計劃的更多詳細信息，那就太好了。

Great. So maybe I'll take the first. You want to take the second. So with regards to allowance for doubtful accounts, last year, we had about BRL60 million in terms of deals or settlements that we made with delinquent customers. So year-on-year, you have that effect that's explaining more or less half of the year-on-year difference.

偉大的。所以也許我會選擇第一個。您想選擇第二項。因此，關於壞帳準備，去年我們與拖欠款項的客戶達成的交易或和解金額約為 6,000 萬巴西雷亞爾。因此，與去年同期相比，這種效應可以解釋同比差異的一半以上。

On top of that, we've also had a tariff increase that also helped increase a little bit the delinquency. But more than that, remember that I mentioned about the CadÚnico that we removed the discounts in December and January from a lot of the customers. So we're actually seeing that effect now.

除此之外，我們還提高了電費，也導致拖欠率略有上升。但更重要的是，請記住我提到關於 CadÃnico，我們取消了 12 月和 1 月對許多客戶的折扣。所以我們現在確實看到了這種效果。

So these customers were rebilled and reinvoiced later on. So potentially, we'll see a change in the profile in Q3 due to that. But this is just the lagging effect of that, okay? So those are the main three drivers for that impact.

因此這些客戶後來被重新開立帳單和發票。因此，我們可能會在第三季看到情況發生變化。但這只是滯後效應，好嗎？因此，這些就是造成這種影響的三個主要驅動因素。

Regarding your second question, the first, let's set the stage. We have the obligation, according to the new concession agreement to provide smart meters in the city of São Paulo, and São José dos Campos. At least on these two municipalities, this is an obligation, and we have the degrees of freedom if we choose to do so in the other municipalities.

關於你的第二個問題，首先，讓我們先介紹一下背景。根據新的特許協議，我們有義務為聖保羅市和聖若澤多斯坎普斯市提供智慧電錶。至少在這兩個市鎮，這是一項義務，如果我們選擇在其他市鎮這樣做，我們有一定的自由。

So after we got here, we're in SABESP for 11 months now, we went out on a journey to understand what type of experience existed around the world regarding smart meters. So we went to Europe, we went to Asia. And we -- based on this investigation, we chose a technology based on NB-IoT. It's a type of technology using some of the spectrum of the wireless companies.

因此，我們來到這裡之後，已經在 SABESP 工作了 11 個月，我們踏上了一段旅程，去了解世界各地在智慧電錶方面存在什麼樣的經驗。所以我們去了歐洲，去了亞洲。基於這項調查，我們選擇了基於 NB-IoT 的技術。這是一種利用無線公司部分頻譜的技術。

We also took the decision to go to meet this obligation through a turnkey project because usually, there's a discussion about the responsibility when you have problems about the carrier, the telecom carrier and the manufacturer of the meters. So we took the decision to have only one point -- major point of contact that's going to be the telecom communication company. So that's what we did.

我們也決定透過統包工程來履行這項義務，因為通常情況下，當出現有關營運商、電信業者和電錶製造商的問題時，都會討論責任。因此，我們決定只設立一個主要聯絡點，即電信通訊公司。所以我們就是這麼做的。

So we're very excited with the deal that we struck with Vivo, Telefonica from Spain. They already rendered this similar type of service in Spain for the water industry. They rendered this type of service in the UK for the electricity sector. So they have experience providing smart meter technology to other utilities. They're going to be responsible for the rollout of this obligation.

因此，我們對與西班牙電信 Vivo 達成的協議感到非常興奮。他們已經為西班牙的水務業提供類似的服務。他們為英國的電力部門提供此類服務。因此他們有向其他公用事業公司提供智慧電錶技術的經驗。他們將負責履行這項義務。

We have prenegotiated with some meter companies to provide the meters, and they are going to be built directly to SABESP. So they're going to be incorporated to our regulatory asset base. But all the interaction is going to be done through Vivo, and they're going to be responsible for rolling out this.

我們已經與一些儀表公司進行了預先協商，以提供儀表，並且這些儀表將直接為 SABESP 製造。所以它們將被納入我們的監管資產基礎。但所有互動都將透過 Vivo 完成，他們將負責推出這項功能。

We're probably going to bring other metering companies from around the world to help us meet this target. So we have a couple of foreign companies interested in this contract as well to help us meet the 4.4 million unit targets that we communicated to the market.

我們可能會引入來自世界各地的其他計量公司來幫助我們實現這一目標。因此，有幾家外國公司也對這份合約感興趣，希望幫助我們實現向市場傳達的 440 萬輛的目標。

So basically, this is the relationship. Part of the amount of the BRL3.8 billion that we mentioned, most of that amount is related to the meters, but there's also a fee to be paid for the communication, the setup, the software, all the connection that is going to be set up by Vivo.

所以基本上，這就是關係。在我們提到的 38 億巴西雷亞爾中，大部分費用與電錶有關，但還需要支付通訊、設定、軟體以及 Vivo 將要設定的所有連線的費用。

And they're going to guarantee the lifespan of the meters that agreement around 10 years, okay? That's the regulatory life cycle of the meters.

他們將保證電錶的使用壽命約為 10 年，好嗎？這就是電錶的監理生命週期。

Arthur Pereira, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的亞瑟·佩雷拉。

So two questions on the tariff review process. First, on the time line, I think that it differed a little bit from the expectations from -- that we had and also that investors had regarding the public disclosure, right? You mentioned that the only public disclosure would be the final review by early December. We were expecting something at least in September or October.

關於關稅審查過程有兩個問題。首先，就時間表而言，我認為它與我們以及投資者對公開披露的預期略有不同，對嗎？您提到，唯一的公開披露將是 12 月初的最終審查。我們預計至少在九月或十月會發生一些事情。

And the main question about this is why not a public hearing process, right? This is usual for any regulated utility and especially in a process in which we will discuss a new methodology about the financial compensation for the CapEx that were included in the contract amendment from December. And wouldn't this be a risk of friction from consumer associations, et cetera?

關於這個問題的主要問題是為什麼不進行公開聽證程序，對嗎？對於任何受監管的公用事業來說，這都是很常見的，特別是在我們將討論自 12 月起合約修訂中包含的資本支出財務補償的新方法的過程中。這是否會有與消費者協會等產生摩擦的風險？

And the second, as Daniel mentioned, out of the three main drivers for this tariff review process, one of it would be the financial compensation for the CapEx not executed, right, in the previous tariff cycle. Could you provide any kind of details or expectations about how much CapEx you didn't execute or at least what could be the best way to look at it? We know that there could be some differences between the CapEx reported and also how the regulator assesses this CapEx in the tariff review.

第二，正如丹尼爾所提到的，在這次關稅審查過程的三個主要驅動因素中，其中一個因素是對上一個關稅週期中未執行的資本支出進行財務補償。您能否提供任何有關您未執行的資本支出的詳細資訊或預期，或至少可以最好地了解它？我們知道，報告的資本支出與監管機構在關稅審查中評估該資本支出的方式之間可能存在一些差異。

Thank you, Arthur. I think what we try to do here was just to give visibility of what's already embedded in the contracts. A lot of investors question us, what's the road map? What's going to happen? So what we provided today is the road map that's agreed and it's described in the contract.

謝謝你，亞瑟。我認為我們在這裡嘗試做的只是讓人們看到合約中已經包含的內容。很多投資人問我們，路線圖是什麼？會發生什麼事？因此，我們今天提供的是雙方同意的路線圖，並在合約中有描述。

What's described regarding the RAB is that we're going to have -- we submitted already the 2024 RAB by the end of May and the regulator essentially has until the end of September to provide a final number to us.

關於 RAB 的描述是，我們將在 5 月底之前提交 2024 年 RAB，監管機構基本上必須在 9 月底之前向我們提供最終數字。

We still don't know if it's going to be confidential or not. But my personal opinion here -- and we're going to live this first cycle, if this is definitive, probably I'll make the case here to make it public because I'm not going to hold a final private information and probably it's easier to disclose this information.

我們還不知道它是否會保密。但我的個人觀點是——我們將經歷第一個週期，如果這是確定的，我可能會在這裡公開它，因為我不會保留最終的私人信息，而且披露這些信息可能更容易。

So this -- we're going to see how this is going to play out in September. In October, we're going to receive the number that's going to be embedded on the tariff increase next year, so we can apply appropriately in January 1 of the following year.

所以——我們將看看九月情況會如何發展。十月份，我們將收到明年關稅上調所包含的數字，以便我們可以在隔年1月1日提出適當的申請。

So this is the mechanics. There's a couple of things that we are going to learn together with ARSESP, okay? I think the second question that you mentioned is regarding the change of the methodology regarding how the RAB is evaluated. This -- we're going to have a public hearing. I think this is a little bit behind schedule. But I -- my understanding is that we're going to have a public hearing regarding this issue as well, where every stakeholder will have an opportunity to make a voice and express their opinions about the proposal that the regulator is going to make.

這就是機制。有一些事情我們將與 ARSESP 一起學習，好嗎？我認為您提到的第二個問題是關於 RAB 評估方法的變化。這個——我們將舉行一次公開聽證會。我認為這有點落後於計劃。但我的理解是，我們也將就此議題舉行公開聽證會，每個利害關係人都有機會表達他們對監管機構將要提出的建議的看法。

So even us, we're going to make comments and see how we see the proposal of these changes. So I don't think this is out of the -- I think this is part of the process, and it's still going to happen in the due time, okay? That's my two cents. Do you want to take the second one, and you want me to?

因此，即使是我們，我們也會發表評論，看看我們如何看待這些變化的提議。所以我不認為這超出範圍——我認為這是過程的一部分，而且它仍會在適當的時候發生，好嗎？這是我的看法。你想選第二個嗎？你想讓我選嗎？

No, no, that's fine. I think with regards to the adjustment based on the CapEx not executed on the last cycle or the old methodology, if you want to say that the forward-looking methodology. Yes, this is one of the items in the tariff review. We're not disclosing publicly what we think the number will be because this review is not a fulsome review.

不不不，沒關係。我認為，關於基於上一個週期未執行的資本支出或舊方法的調整，如果您想說是前瞻性方法的話。是的，這是關稅審查的內容之一。我們不會公開披露我們認為的數字，因為這次審查並不是一次全面的審查。

It's just an incorporation of RAB, right? But we'll see that together with the result of the tariff review, there is no -- there should be no big interpretation here. That's at least our expectation to be very technical.

這只是 RAB 的合併，對嗎？但我們將看到，結合關稅審查的結果，這裡不應該有太大的解讀。至少我們期望它非常技術化。

Usually on these technical items -- just one final comment, Arthur, there's the regulator gives a preliminary number where we have the opportunity to question and challenge some of the positions. So even us, we have an estimate, but this is not final, okay? So that put us in a position that it doesn't make sense for us to disclose this number.

通常在這些技術問題上——亞瑟，最後再說一句，監管機構會給出一個初步數字，讓我們有機會質疑和挑戰一些立場。所以即使我們有一個估計，但這不是最終的，好嗎？因此，我們認為披露這個數字是沒有意義的。

But for sure, there is a gap on that number that's going to be considered on the repositioning of the tariffs for next year. And when we have definitive numbers, I think we'll work to make these numbers public as soon as they are final.

但可以肯定的是，這個數字上存在著差距，明年重新調整關稅時將會考慮到這一點。當我們有了確切的數字後，我想我們會盡快將這些數字公佈出來。

Perfect. No, this would be super important, okay. And just one final question about this financial compensation for the previous cycle. Besides the CapEx, is there any line in the previous financial compensation, there were also some adjustments for other revenues and concession fees or the CapEx should be the bulk of it?

完美的。不，這非常重要，懂嗎。最後一個問題是關於上一輪的財務補償。除了資本支出之外，以前的財務補償中是否有任何一項，是否也對其他收入和特許費進行了一些調整，或者資本支出應該佔其中的大部分？

I think the CapEx is a large bulk of it. Since we are new here, looking at everything that happened in the past. There's positives, there are negatives. We're trying to make inventory of everything that's on the table. And probably, we're going to make a proposal considering 100% of this, okay?

我認為資本支出佔了其中很大一部分。因為我們是新來的，所以回顧過去發生的一切。有正面的一面，也有負面的一面。我們正在嘗試對所有擺在桌面上的東西進行盤點。而我們可能會在充分考慮這些因素後提出建議，好嗎？

That's usually the case. And it's also usually the case that you don't get everything, right? But we're trying to raise everything that makes sense for SABESP to make a fleet with the regulator, and we're going to do in the due process before the November final position of assessment.

通常情況都是這樣的。而且通常的情況是你無法得到所有東西，對嗎？但我們正在努力提高一切有利於 SABESP 與監管機構組建船隊的條件，並且我們將在 11 月最終評估結果出來之前按照正當程序進行。

Bruno Amorim, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的布魯諾·阿莫林。

So maybe for Piani, now that you have been running the company for roughly one year, what's your assessment of the opportunity at SABESP? Where did you find even more opportunities to create value? And what are the areas where the challenge is bigger than what was initially expected 1 year ago?

那麼對於 Piani 來說，現在您已經經營公司大約一年了，您如何評估 SABESP 的機會？您在哪裡找到了更多創造價值的機會？哪些領域的挑戰比一年前最初預期的更大？

Thank you, Bruno. I think the opportunity, it's -- I think SABESP is one of the largest companies in the world. So it's an opportunity for me, for Dan and for Thiago, for everyone who's been part of this transformation. I think we have evidence that the -- every day that we have many opportunities.

謝謝你，布魯諾。我認為這是一個機會——我認為 SABESP 是世界上最大的公司之一。所以這對我、對丹、對蒂亞戈以及對參與這一轉變的每個人來說都是一個機會。我認為我們有證據表明——我們每天都有很多機會。

I think what we didn't imagine is how heated was going to be the economy of São Paulo, right? I think the governor has promoted many investments in the state. So there's -- it's a heated demand for services, for people, for the workforce. I think this we didn't envision.

我想我們沒有想到的是聖保羅的經濟將會變得多麼火熱，對吧？我認為州長已經推動了該州的多項投資。因此，對服務、對人員、對勞動力的需求十分旺盛。我想這是我們沒有想到的。

Our challenge has been to balance the efficiency gains that the market always tries to get a commitment from us where we want to get to with the annual targets, right? Remember, we have annual goals, specific numbers that we need to get to independently of the savings and so forth.

我們面臨的挑戰是平衡市場始終試圖從我們這裡獲得的承諾的效率提升與我們想要達到的年度目標，對嗎？請記住，我們有年度目標，有我們需要獨立於儲蓄實現的具體數字等等。

So we need to balance these two things. And I think we have done so far a great job. Still early days, but I think I'm very excited what we have done so far with very little friction and negative impact. So I think we're good in that front.

所以我們需要平衡這兩件事。我認為我們迄今為止做得非常出色。雖然還處於早期階段，但我認為我們迄今為止所做的一切都非常令人興奮，幾乎沒有任何摩擦和負面影響。所以我認為我們在這方面做得很好。

The Q&A session is now over. We wish to give the floor back to Mr. Carlos Piani for the company's closing remarks.

問答環節現已結束。我們希望將公司的閉幕詞交還給卡洛斯·皮亞尼先生。

So I'd like to thank you all for the questions, for joining our call today. We understand that SABESP is delivering on its commitments. I think we gave very robust strides towards the universalization, a big pent-up demand here in the state of São Paulo. We're improving service, the service quality. We're strengthening the financial and operating performance at the same time.

因此，我要感謝大家提出的問題，感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議。我們了解到 SABESP 正在履行其承諾。我認為我們在普及方面取得了非常強勁的進步，這是聖保羅州被壓抑的一大需求。我們正在改善服務、提升服務品質。我們正在同時加強財務和營運績效。

So I think we're very excited with what happened so far and optimistic with the future. Thank you for your ongoing support, and see you all on the call for the third quarter results. Have all a nice day. Bye-bye.

所以我認為我們對目前所發生的事情感到非常興奮，並對未來充滿樂觀。感謝您一直以來的支持，期待在第三季業績電話會議與大家見面。祝大家有愉快的一天。再見。

Thank you.

謝謝。

SABESP's earnings presentation is now closed. Thank you very much for your participation, and we wish you all a very good day.

SABESP 的收益報告現已結束。非常感謝您的參與，並祝大家有個愉快的一天。