Companhia de Saneamento Basico do Estado de Sao Paulo - SABESP (SBS) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to SABESP's third quarter of 2025 earnings presentation. With us here today are Carlos Piani, CEO; Daniel Szlak, CFO; and Thiago Levy, Investor Relations. Before we begin, we clarify that the statement during presentation will not include injection or estimate refute events. However, it may contain forward-looking statements indicating potential trends related to SABESP based on the reasonable expectations, beliefs and assumptions of SABESP management as of today.

早安，歡迎參加 SABESP 2025 年第三季財報會。今天在場的有：執行長 Carlos Piani；財務長 Daniel Szlak；以及投資者關係負責人 Thiago Levy。在開始之前，我們先澄清一下，演示過程中的陳述不會包含注入或估計反駁事件。然而，其中可能包含前瞻性陳述，表明基於 SABESP 管理層截至今日的合理預期、信念和假設，與 SABESP 相關的潛在趨勢。

These statements involve risks and uncertainties and are based on assumptions and factors such as market, regulatory and economic conditions, which may not materialize in addition to the risk factors disclosed in SABESP filings with the Brazilian Securities and Exchange Commission, B3 and on its Investor Relations website.

這些聲明涉及風險和不確定性，並且基於市場、監管和經濟狀況等假設和因素，這些假設和因素可能不會實現，此外，SABESP 還向巴西證券交易委員會 (B3) 提交的文件以及其投資者關係網站上披露了風險因素。

Investors should understand that changes in such factors may lead to outcomes that differ from current trends and that undue reliance should not be placed on these statements. The full disclaimer will be presented next and must be read carefully by all participants. This presentation is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

投資人應該明白，這些因素的變化可能會導致與當前趨勢不同的結果，因此不應過度依賴這些說法。接下來將列出完整的免責聲明，所有參與者都必須仔細閱讀。本次演講正在錄製。（操作說明）

I will now turn the floor over to Daniel Szlak, who will discuss the results. Daniel, you may proceed.

現在我將把發言權交給丹尼爾·斯拉克，他將討論結果。丹尼爾，你可以繼續了。

Thanks, operator. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us for SABESP's third quarter 2025 earnings call. I'm Daniel Szlak, CFO of the company. Today, I will present our financial and operational highlights, then pass the mic to our CEO, Carlos Piani, where he will discuss the strategic transformation underway, and then we'll open the floor for Q&A.

謝謝接線生。各位早安。感謝您參加 SABESP 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。我是丹尼爾‧斯拉克，公司財務長。今天，我將介紹我們的財務和營運亮點，然後將麥克風交給我們的執行長卡洛斯·皮亞尼，他將討論正在進行的策略轉型，然後我們將開放問答環節。

On the operational highlights, this quarter marks another step in SABESP's transformation journey. Water production reached 809 million cubic meters, up 4.4% year-over-year, and active connections grew 0.6% in the quarter. Sewage connections rose 1.1%, reflecting the investment focus on the sewage front. These operational gains reflect our ongoing commitment to reaching universal access and improving service delivery, building on the momentum established post privatization.

在營運亮點方面，本季標誌著 SABESP 轉型之旅的又一步。本季供水量達 8.09 億立方米，年增 4.4%，活躍用戶數成長 0.6%。污水連接數量增加了 1.1%，反映出政府對污水處理領域的投資重點。這些營運上的進步體現了我們持續致力於實現全民普及和改善服務交付的承諾，並在此基礎上，鞏固了私有化後取得的良好勢頭。

Now moving to the financial highlights. Our results continue to demonstrate the impact of our efficiency initiatives. Adjusted net revenue was $5.5 billion, stable year-over-year, while adjusted EBITDA grew 15% to BRL3.2 billion, reaching a 59% margin.

接下來是財經要點。我們的成果持續證明了我們提高效率措施的影響。調整後的淨收入為 55 億美元，與上年同期持平；經調整後的 EBITDA 成長 15% 至 32 億雷亞爾，利潤率達到 59%。

Adjusted net income reached $1.2 billion, a 9.5% growth versus prior year, and cash flow from operations increased 22% and to $1.7 billion with EBITDA to cash conversion reaching 54% in the quarter, underscoring disciplined execution and resource optimization.

經調整後的淨收入達到 12 億美元，比上年增長 9.5%；經營活動產生的現金流增長 22% 至 17 億美元；本季 EBITDA 現金轉換率達 54%，凸顯了公司嚴謹的執行力和資源優化。

To start, we will bridge from reported to adjusted figures in the quarter. You can also find more detailed info on this topic in the appendix. As usual, we exclude construction and the financial asset bifurcation, but this quarter, we also had a few non-recurring events, namely as published a notice to the market in September, we have received communication from the regulator that the FAUSP rate is at 3.78% rather than the 3.28% that we had been accruing since July '24. Hence, we had to book a catch-up adjustment for July 24 through June '25 that we are removing from the adjusted results and impacts both revenue and EBITDA.

首先，我們將把本季的報告數據與調整後的數據進行銜接。您還可以在附錄中找到有關此主題的更多詳細資訊。與往常一樣，我們排除了建築和金融資產分拆，但本季度我們也發生了一些非經常性事件，即正如我們在 9 月份向市場發布的通知，我們已收到監管機構的通知，FAUSP 利率為 3.78%，而不是我們自 2024 年 7 月以來一直累積的 3.28%。因此，我們不得不對 2024 年 7 月至 2025 年 6 月期間進行追趕調整，我們將從調整後的業績中剔除該調整，這將對收入和 EBITDA 都產生影響。

Moving to EBITDA and net profit only adjustments. Additionally, we executed voluntary dismissal plans in the quarter under the SABESP Gente program, where we accrued BRL478 million for severance and incentives. Under the program, we have about 1,800 employees departing until year-end.

改為僅進行 EBITDA 和淨利潤調整。此外，本季度我們還根據 SABESP Gente 計劃執行了自願離職計劃，為此我們累計了 4.78 億雷亞爾的遣散費和獎勵。根據該計劃，到年底前我們將有大約 1800 名員工離職。

We also restructured our warehouse and logistics operations to improve fulfillment and inventory levels that had a onetime cost of BRL74 million and also wrote off water pipeline infrastructure that we no longer expect to use for BRL61 million, where we will make a larger investment in its place for a more long-lasting solution in that region.

我們還重組了倉庫和物流運營，以提高訂單履行和庫存水平，一次性成本為 7400 萬雷亞爾；此外，我們還註銷了不再使用的水管基礎設施，損失金額為 6100 萬雷亞爾，我們將在該地區進行更大的投資，以尋求更持久的解決方案。

In Q3 last year, we also had onetime costs from the privatization of the company. And in this quarter, we got a reimbursement for some of these costs for BRL14 million. To maintain coherence, we're calling this reimbursement a one-off gain.

去年第三季度，我們也產生了公司私有化帶來的一次性成本。本季度，我們獲得了部分費用報銷，金額為 1400 萬巴西雷亞爾。為了保持一致性，我們將這筆補償稱為一次性收益。

Last but not least, we booked in Q3 a onetime gain from court order payments, Precatorios, with the city of Sao Paulo as the uncertainty of the amount has been significantly reduced. They totalled BRL1.9 billion, of which BRL130 million are hitting in EBITDA and the remaining financial results.

最後，由於金額的不確定性已大幅降低，我們在第三季度確認了來自聖保羅市法院判決付款的一次性收益（Precatorios）。總計 19 億雷亞爾，其中 1.3 億雷亞爾計入 EBITDA，其餘計入財務表現。

Of the BRL1.9 billion we have collected to date about BRL1.1 billion and expect to collect the remaining amount over the next few months. With that, we believe we can see, as a result, the underlying performance in our business and will focus on the adjusted numbers in the next pages.

截至目前，我們已收回約 19 億雷亞爾，其中約 11 億雷亞爾，預計未來幾個月內將收回剩餘款項。由此，我們相信能夠看出我們業務的潛在表現，接下來我們將專注於調整後的數據。

Moving on and looking at adjusted revenue growth, we have four core drivers. FAUUSP increased year-on-year from the 3.78% versus 3.28% rate I just mentioned and an increase driven by higher revenues. This count removal for larger clients a key initiative that started in late '24 now delivering tangible gains.

接下來，我們來看調整後的營收成長，我們有四個核心驅動因素。FAUUSP 年比增速從我剛才提到的 3.78% 增至 3.28%，這是由於收入增加所致。這項針對大客戶的計數移除是一項始於 2024 年末的關鍵舉措，現在已取得了切實的成果。

On the volume front, the gains came from new connections for 1.5% and also a 1% gain from consumption and metering upgrades. And now last but not least, we have a mix. We're about 1.8 million units now benefit from subsidized rates.

在數量方面，成長主要來自新增連線（1.5%）以及消費和計量升級帶來的1%成長。最後，我們來欣賞一下混音。目前約有 180 萬戶家庭享有補貼房價。

The mix impacts from 2H '25 are expected to be adjusted in 2027 rate cycle as per the concession contract amendment signed in 3Q '25. Deep diving into revenue, we see flat overall price index to 100 compared to 3Q '24, as expected.

根據 2025 年第三季簽署的特許經營合約修訂案，預計 2025 年下半年的產品組合影響將在 2027 年的費率週期中進行調整。深入分析收入，我們發現整體價格指數與 2024 年第三季相比持平，達到 100，正如預期。

And also a continuous pickup from large clients prices as we continue to eliminate discounts from that group. Last but not least, we have reached 1.8 million units with access to subsidized rates keeping a relatively stable cohort versus the second quarter of '25.

同時，由於我們不斷取消大客戶的折扣，價格也持續上漲。最後，我們已達到 180 萬套享有補貼價格的住房，與 2025 年第二季相比，住房群體保持相對穩定。

Now looking at EBITDA, efficiency gains are evident in our cost structure. G&A brought gains behind lower municipal funds versus the anticipation we did in the third quarter of '24. Additionally, we also improved our collection rate reaching 101% in the quarter among the highest historically. Last but not least, in G&A, we also continue to improve on the legal front and have executed settlements in the quarter that brought BRL50 million gain.

現在來看 EBITDA，我們的成本結構效率提升顯而易見。2024 年第三季度，由於市政資金減少，一般及行政費用有所下降，這與我們先前的預期有所不同。此外，我們的收款率也提高了提高，本季達到了 101%，是史上最高的之一。最後，在一般及行政費用方面，我們也繼續在法律方面取得進步，並在本季完成了和解，帶來了 5,000 萬雷亞爾的收益。

Moving to power. We improved despite higher power prices, and that was largely driven by the migration from captive to free market, we're about 66% of our spend is on the free market and 80% of our consumption is also there.

邁向權力之路。儘管電力價格上漲，但我們的業績卻有所改善，這主要得益於從電力市場轉移到自由市場，我們約 66% 的支出用於自由市場，80% 的電力消耗也用於自由市場。

On the services front, we increased our spend in IT and some specific consulting works in the quarter. On the next page, we will deep dive in personnel. But all in all, we've standardized procurement, optimize supply chain management and leverage technology to drive further savings, initiatives that began in the third quarter of '24 and accelerating in 2025.

在服務方面，本季我們增加了在 IT 和一些特定諮詢工作方面的支出。下一頁，我們將深入探討人事議題。但總而言之，我們已經實現了採購標準化、供應鏈管理優化以及利用技術進一步節省成本，這些措施始於 2024 年第三季度，並將於 2025 年加速推進。

Moving into personnel. Expenses fell 6.6% year-over-year despite a 5% increase from collective bargain driven by a headcount reduction of 13% that offset that to voluntary dismissal plans. Zooming in on reported net income for the third quarter of 2025, we lapped the construction margin and financial asset bifurcation from the third quarter of last year, where we no longer record construction margin as of 2025 and have only the update of the financial asset for BRL90 million in net profit in the third quarter of 2025.

轉入人事部門。儘管集體談判導致支出增加了 5%，但由於裁員 13% 抵消了這一增長，自願離職計劃抵消了這一增長，但支出仍同比下降了 6.6%。仔細分析 2025 年第三季報告的淨收入，我們發現與去年第三季相比，建築利潤率和金融資產的劃分有所不同。從 2025 年起，我們不再記錄建築利潤率，2025 年第三季淨利僅包含 9,000 萬雷亞爾的金融資產更新。

On the positive front, we also recognized the $1.4 billion gain in financial results from the court order debt payment in addition to the $430 million that I already mentioned in EBITDA. Our balance sheet remains robust with leverage under control and no effective exposure to currency risk.

積極的方面是，除了我之前提到的 EBITDA 中的 4.3 億美元之外，我們還確認了法院命令債務支付帶來的 14 億美元財務收益。我們的資產負債表依然穩健，槓桿率得到控制，並且沒有有效面臨金錢風險。

Strategic transformation is most feasible in our investment program. CapEx accelerated to $4 billion in the quarter, growing 175% versus prior year and 10% versus the second quarter of 2025. This performance is helping SABESP achieve solid compliance to our first milestone on new factor targets. We are only 3% away from meeting the minimum 95% threshold on sewage treatment.

戰略轉型在我們投資計畫中最可行。本季資本支出加速成長至 40 億美元，比上年同期成長 175%，比 2025 年第二季成長 10%。這項業績有助於 SABESP 穩步實現我們在新因子目標方面的第一個里程碑。我們距離污水處理95%的最低標準僅差3%。

On the next page, looking at the major projects, Integra Tiete, Coastal and Metropolitan region works, upgrades to Barueri, ABC, Parque Novo Mundo, and São Miguel sewage treatment plants. Specifically, in Parque Novo Mundo, we are piloting our first treatment plant using Neredo technology and will be one of the largest applications of such technology globally. It helps reduce treatment area, in particular, space-constrained stations and will help multiply our capacity by 2.5 times serving almost 3 million people in that specific site.

下一頁，我們將看到主要項目，包括 Integra Tiete、沿海和大都會區工程、Barueri、ABC、Parque Novo Mundo 和 São Miguel 污水處理廠的升級改造。具體來說，在新世界公園，我們正在試驗建造第一座採用 Neredo 技術的污水處理廠，這將是全球範圍內該技術最大的應用之一。它有助於減少治療區域，特別是空間受限的站點，並將幫助我們將服務能力提高 2.5 倍，為該特定地點的近 300 萬人提供服務。

We've shifted from public procurement to a private model fragmenting large projects to attract more suppliers and minimize execution risk, a key change in the privatization. Our financial transformation also includes a proactive approach to capital structure. $4.9 billion in new debt was issued in the third quarter with maturities for 5, 7 and 10 years. With that, 59% of our debt now matures from 2030 onwards, improving our long-term profile.

我們已經從公共採購轉向私人採購模式，將大型專案拆分，以吸引更多供應商並最大限度地降低執行風險，這是私有化過程中的關鍵變化。我們的財務轉型也包括積極主動地調整資本結構。第三季發行了49億美元的新債，期限分別為5年、7年和10年。這樣一來，我們59%的債務將從2030年起到期，從而改善了我們的長期財務狀況。

And we also hold $11.6 billion in cash, covering more than four years of amortization. Our efficiency agenda can be seen in our key ratios, where net debt to EBITDA remained stable in the quarter and ROIC and ROE have reached 10% and 14%, respectively.

此外，我們還持有 116 億美元的現金，足以支付四年多的攤提費用。從我們的關鍵比率可以看出我們的效率提升計劃，本季淨負債與 EBITDA 的比率保持穩定，ROIC 和 ROE 分別達到了 10% 和 14%。

In summary, SABESP's third quarter results highlight the success of our strategic transformation and efficiency gains. We're scaling infrastructure, improving service quality, enhancing customer experience, and strengthening our financial position. Our commitment to universal access, operational excellence and sustainable growth remains unwavering.

總而言之，SABESP 第三季的業績凸顯了我們策略轉型和效率提升的成功。我們正在擴大基礎設施規模，提高服務質量，提升客戶體驗，並增強財務實力。我們對普及醫療服務、卓越營運和永續成長的承諾始終堅定不移。

Thank you for your attention. I will now pass the call to our CEO, Carlos Piani. The floor is yours.

感謝您的關注。現在我將把電話轉給我們的執行長卡洛斯·皮亞尼。現在輪到你發言了。

Thanks, Daniel. Let's move now to the second part of today's presentation, our strategic focus areas, and the progress we made this quarter. As we've discussed before, our strategy continues to rest on three clear priorities.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。現在讓我們進入今天演講的第二部分，即我們的策略重點領域以及我們本季的進展。正如我們之前討論過的，我們的策略仍然基於三個明確的優先事項。

First, delivering on the commitments of the new concession agreement, accelerating universalization, and closing regulatory gaps. Second, drive a step change in operating and commercial efficiency, improving quality, reliability, and revenue assurance; and lastly, strengthening financial efficiency optimizing costs and reinforcing our capital structure.

首先，履行新特許經營協議的承諾，加速普及化進程，並彌合監管漏洞。其次，推動營運和商業效率的重大變革，提高品質、可靠性和收入保障；最後，加強財務效率，優化成本，強化資本結構。

In the third quarter, we delivered measurable progress across all three fronts. Let's turn to slide 18. Execution remains strong and disciplined. In the quarter, CapEx reached BRL4 billion, totalling BRL13.2 billion over the last 12 months, while our backlog increased to BRL39 billion in contracted projects through 2029, and that considers only future investments.

第三季度，我們在所有三個方面都取得了可衡量的進展。讓我們翻到第18張投影片。執行力依然強勁且嚴謹。本季資本支出達到 40 億雷亞爾，過去 12 個月累計達到 132 億雷亞爾，而到 2029 年，我們的合約項目積壓已增至 390 億雷亞爾，這還不包括未來的投資。

On the regulatory front, we made tangible progress resolving legacy discount disputes. 71% of injections from large clients have already been rolled in our favor strengthening the foundation of our revenue base. We also launched SABESP's first full zero-based budgeting cycle with a redesigned chart of accounts and cost center structure, a major step toward lasting cost discipline.

在監管方面，我們在解決歷史遺留的折扣糾紛方面取得了實際進展。來自大客戶的71%的注資已轉為我們有利的局面，從而鞏固了我們的收入基礎。我們也啟動了 SABESP 的第一個完整的零基預算週期，重新設計了會計科目表和成本中心結構，這是邁向持久成本控制的重要一步。

We are also advancing in commercial and financial efficiency. Collection efficiency, excluding court order debt reached 101%, our best performance since privatization. We installed over 1 million meters so far this year, which I'll detail on the next page. And on the customer experience front, our WhatsApp channel handled more than 8 million interactions and 1.2 million payments since launch, improving convenience and engagement.

我們在商業和財務效率方面也取得了進展。不包括法院判決債務的催收效率達到 101%，這是我們自私有化以來的最佳表現。今年到目前為止，我們已經安裝了超過 100 萬個計量單位，我將在下一頁詳細介紹。在客戶體驗方面，自推出以來，我們的 WhatsApp 管道已處理超過 800 萬次互動和 120 萬筆支付，提高了便利性和參與度。

Finally, we announced clear carbon reduction targets for 2035, covering scope 1, 2 and 3, which will detail shortly. Moving to the next slide. We're rolling out the world's largest smart metering program in the water sector. 4.4 million IoT-enabled smart meters will be installed through 2029 with BRL3.8 billion in contracted investments. Rollout begins in December, enabling real-time consumption data for consumers, reducing leakages, lowering operational costs, and further strengthening revenue assurance.

最後，我們公佈了 2035 年明確的碳減排目標，涵蓋範圍 1、2 和 3，詳情稍後公佈。進入下一張投影片。我們正在水務領域推行全球規模最大的智慧計量計畫。到2029年，我們將安裝440萬台支援物聯網功能的智慧水錶，合約投資額達38億雷亞爾。該計畫將於 12 月開始實施，屆時消費者將能夠獲取即時消費數據，減少數據洩露，降低營運成本，並進一步加強收入保障。

In the quarter, we installed around 500,000 meters, more than doubling the speed from last quarter. reaching nearly 1 million replacements in the first nine months. By prioritizing older and depreciated meters, we're improving billing accuracy, reducing losses, and directly supporting revenue growth.

本季度，我們安裝了約 50 萬米，比上一季的速度提高了一倍多，前九個月的更換量接近 100 萬米。透過優先使用老舊和已折舊的電錶，我們提高了計費準確性，減少了損失，並直接支持了收入成長。

Now turning to slide 20. We continue to strengthen Sao Paulo's integrated water system, building structural resilience to climate variability. Over the past years, we've expanded reservoir capacity and increased transfer capabilities between systems, materially improving our ability to absorb extreme events.

現在請看第20張投影片。我們將繼續加強聖保羅的綜合供水系統，增強其應對氣候變遷的結構性韌性。過去幾年，我們擴大了水庫容量，提高了系統間的輸水能力，從根本上提高了我們應對極端事件的能力。

Looking ahead, we'll add indirect water reuse and incremental production and transfer capacity totalling 22 cubic meters per second by 2030 through seven retrofits and expansion projects, three indirect reuse projects, the reactivation of the Billings - Taiaçupeba interconnection and the Paraíba Sul-Alto Tietê transfer.

展望未來，到 2030 年，我們將透過七個改造和擴建項目、三個間接再利用項目、比林斯-泰亞蘇佩巴互聯項目和帕拉伊巴蘇爾-阿爾托蒂耶特輸水項目，增加間接水資源再利用能力以及增量生產和輸送能力，總計達到每秒 22 立方米。

The estimated CapEx for these projects is around BRL6.3 billion brought forward from the second tariff cycle of 2030-2034. These initiatives will make SABESP less dependent on rainfall cycles and better equipped to serve a growing population with greater reliability.

這些項目的預計資本支出約為 63 億雷亞爾，這些資金是從 2030-2034 年的第二個關稅週期提前撥付的。這些措施將使 SABESP 減少對降雨週期的依賴，並能更可靠地為不斷增長的人口提供服務。

Moving to the next slide. Our purpose remains to connect people to a better future, delivering essential services with excellence and unwavering commitment to the environment. In the first nine months, BRL13 billion were reinvested in construction, goods, and services, supporting over 40,000 direct and indirect jobs with around BRL1 billion allocated to FAUUSP. Today, 1.8 million people benefit from social tariffs, a 40% increase in one year, demonstrating that this transformation is already delivering tangible and inclusive results.

進入下一張投影片。我們的宗旨始終是連結人們與更美好的未來，以卓越的服務提供必要的資源，並堅定不移地致力於環境保護。前九個月，130億雷亞爾被重新投資於建築、商品和服務，支持了超過4萬個直接和間接就業崗位，其中約10億雷亞爾分配給了FAUUSP。如今，已有 180 萬人受惠於社會安全稅，一年內成長了 40%，這表明這項轉型已經帶來了切實可見且包容性的結果。

Moving ahead to the next slide. We also formalized our 2035 decarbonization road map with clear measurable targets. SABESP will reduce total combined emissions, scope 1, 2 and 3 by 15%, cut emission intensity by 41% and lower scope 2 emissions by 43% through the generation and purchase of clean energy. What's most notable is that these targets are achieved while we expand to its treatment serving more people and emitting less per cubic meter treated.

接下來是下一張投影片。我們也制定了2035年脫碳路線圖，並設定了明確可衡量的目標。SABESP 將透過生產和購買清潔能源，將範圍 1、2 和 3 的總排放量減少 15%，將排放強度降低 41%，並將範圍 2 的排放量降低 43%。最值得注意的是，我們在擴大處理範圍、服務更多人口、減少每立方公尺處理排放量的同時，也實現了這些目標。

In other words, we'll grow, universalize, and decarbonize at the same time, combining sustainability, investment, and long-term value creation. Lastly, a brief update on the EMAE acquisition. Following the signing, all regulatory documentation was filed with [kaji] in early October.

換句話說，我們將同時實現成長、普及和脫碳，將永續性、投資和長期價值創造結合起來。最後，簡單介紹EMAE收購的最新進展。簽約後，所有監管文件於 10 月初提交給 [kaji]。

We now move into the approval phase consistent with transactions of this nature and scale. Subject to regulatory approvals, closing is expected between late Q4 and early Q1 of next year, with payment incurred only upon completion. This transaction reinforces long-term water security and energy efficiency, further integrating SABESP's strategic infrastructure.

現在我們進入審批階段，這與此類性質和規模的交易一致。待監管部門批准後，預計將於第四季末至明年第一季初完成交易，款項僅在交易完成後支付。此次交易加強了長期水資源安全和能源效率，進一步整合了 SABESP 的戰略基礎設施。

With that, I conclude my remarks. We can now move on to the Q&A session. Thank you.

我的發言到此結束。現在我們可以進入問答環節了。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Guilherme Bosso, Goldman Sachs.

吉爾赫姆·博索，高盛。

Hi, good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. Are there any updates you could share with us regarding the ongoing annual tariff review process? Also, if there are any initiatives from the company to make the preliminary results public? And what could we expect in terms of timing? Thank you.

您好，早安。謝謝您給我這個機會。關於正在進行的年度關稅審查流程，您能否提供任何最新進展？此外，公司是否有任何公開初步結果的舉措？那麼，在時間安排方面，我們可以期待些什麼呢？謝謝。

Thank you, Pozo. Daniel here. With regards to timing with the review, we are in the final steps of trying to determine the regulatory asset base addition of 2024. As soon as we have that, we have obtained informal consent from the regulator to disclose that first step with the market. And then after that, we will move on to finalize the percent readjustment, including all the other items that are pertinent to the review. And once that happens, then this is going to be published by the regulator. So that's the mechanic.

謝謝你，波佐。我是丹尼爾。關於審查的時間安排，我們正在進行最後階段的評估，以確定 2024 年的監管資產基礎新增金額。一旦我們掌握了這些信息，我們就獲得了監管機構的非正式同意，可以向市場披露這一第一步。然後，我們將繼續完成百分比調整，包括與審查相關的所有其他項目。一旦這種情況發生，監管機構就會公佈相關資訊。這就是它的工作原理。

We are -- hopefully, in a few weeks, we'll be able to share a little bit more updates on that. But since this is the first a lot of back and forth to make sure that this comes out as technical and as clear as possible to all of you.

希望幾週後，我們能分享更多相關進展。但由於這是第一次，所以需要反覆討論，以確保最終呈現的內容盡可能地專業、清晰，讓大家都能理解。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

Fillipe Andrade, Itau BBA.

Fillipe Andrade，Itau BBA。

Hello, guys, good morning. [Sebastian] Thanks for accepting my questions. I would like to hear your thoughts in two points. Firstly, if you could please share your expectations on the improvements on the hydro resilience front, considering the coming rainy period. Also, if you could please further comment on how EMAE acquisition can improve the company's access to hydro resources as well as the efficiency of its current operations. Thank you.

大家好，早安。[賽巴斯蒂安] 謝謝你接受我的問題。我想聽聽你對以下兩點的看法。首先，考慮到即將到來的雨季，能否請您分享您對水文韌性方面改進的期望？另外，能否請您進一步評論一下，EMAE 的收購將如何改善公司取得水力資源的途徑以及提高公司目前營運的效率？謝謝。

Thank you. Thank you for your question. I think there's a short-term and a long-term strategy regarding water security. In terms of short-term strategy, I think what has been proposed by the government and the regulatory agency is what we have for this time horizon. So there's a contingency plan in place. There's triggers to increase pressure management. And we believe that this is the lever that's possible and more effective with the time frame for the next 12 months.

謝謝。謝謝你的提問。我認為在水資源安全方面有短期和長期策略。就短期策略而言，我認為政府和監管機構提出的方案就是我們目前所能採取的措施。所以已經有了緊急應變計畫。有一些因素會觸發壓力管理。我們相信，在未來 12 個月的時間範圍內，這是最可行、最有效的槓桿。

Regarding the EMAE transaction, we believe that this will benefit in a couple of ways to Sabesprev. First, will shorten the time frame to the degrees of freedom and incremental capacity for our systems in terms of water security.

關於 EMAE 交易，我們認為這將在幾個方面使 Sabesprev 受益。首先，這將縮短我們系統在水安全方面的自由度和增量能力的時間框架。

The alternatives without EMAE will take longer. Their environmental license permitting process would be longer, and the CapEx would take more years in our expectation around two years to three years. Besides that, given that this water -- raw water that we would go after would be further away, the OpEx to capture and distribute would be higher.

不使用EMAE的替代方案需要更長。他們的環境許可證審批流程會更長，資本支出預計也會花費更多時間，大約需要兩到三年。除此之外，考慮到我們要取得的這種原水距離更遠，取得和分配的營運成本也會更高。

So the EMAE will offer in the future the possibility for us to capture water that's closer to the metropolitan region with less complex environmental permitting process and consequently, less smaller OpEx to distribute this water. So of course, all of this will be detailed after we conclude the DOM we step in, in the business. But this is the direction that we foresee for the benefits of it.

因此，EMAE 未來將使我們能夠收集更靠近大都會地區的水，環境許可流程也更簡單，從而降低分配這些水的營運成本。當然，所有這些細節都將在我們完成 DOM 階段的工作後，也就是我們進入業務領域之後進行詳細說明。但我們預見到，這樣的發展方向會帶來許多益處。

Thank you, Piani.

謝謝你，皮亞尼。

João Pimentel with Citi.

João Pimentel 與花旗銀行合作。

Hi, guys. Good morning. Thanks for the call. My question comes on the M&A front. We are seeing the development of Copasa privatization. It seems everything is advancing. There is an expectation that it should happen, I don't know, first quarter, first half of next year. Is this something that you're currently wasting your time on today? This is something they're actively studying or still waiting for the process to be more developed to finally dig in.

嗨，大家好。早安.謝謝你的來電。我的問題是關於併購方面的。我們正在見證 Copasa 私有化過程的發展。一切似乎都在向前發展。預計這件事應該會在明年第一季或上半年發生，具體時間我也不清楚。你今天是不是在浪費時間做這件事？這是他們正在積極研究的課題，或是仍在等待相關流程更加完善後再深入研究。

Is this an opportunity that makes sense for SABESP at this point in time, considering that there's a lot of challenges on the universalization front, et cetera? Or are you guys eventually more focused on having our attention more focused on the privatization blocks that will come within the state of Sao Paulo supposedly, the second half of next year. So just trying to get your thoughts on these true events and other inorganic potential opportunities. Thank you.

考慮到普及教育等方面存在著許多挑戰，這對 SABESP 而言，此時此刻是否是一個合適的機會？或者你們最終更希望我們把注意力集中在聖保羅州明年下半年即將進行的私有化項目上。所以，我只是想聽聽您對這些真實事件和其他潛在的非有機成長機會的看法。謝謝。

Pimentel, thank you for the question. As we comment, Daniel and myself, Thiago, all the team, I think our number 1 priority is to deliver on the obligations that we signed with the privatization of SABESP. Having said that, we believe that we are on track. We are posting good cadence to those obligations, which allows us to start looking a little bit outside our organic activity. Of course, M&A, as you know, as well.

皮門特爾，謝謝你的提問。正如我們（丹尼爾和我，蒂亞戈，以及整個團隊）所說，我認為我們的首要任務是履行我們在 SABESP 私有化過程中簽署的義務。綜上所述，我們相信我們正按計劃進行。我們按時履行了這些義務，這使我們能夠開始專注於一些我們自身業務之外的事情。當然，還有併購，你也知道。

This is -- usually is very opportunistic. Maybe we're going to have a vintage next year of a couple of deals coming to the market. And I think we have the duty the duty to look at every opportunity. If we're going to do it or not, if we're going to pursue it in a firm way, it depends on the process.

這通常是非常投機取巧的。或許明年我們會迎來幾筆不錯的交易。我認為我們有責任抓住每一個機會。我們是否要做這件事，是否要堅定地推進這件事，取決於過程。

But for sure, what we can tell the market is where our attention is focused on the business, but we're also looking at the deals that may come to market. The ones that you mentioned are important for different aspects. The blocks in Sao Paulo is in our backyard, so it makes total sense. I think the cost to serve for us is -- we're very competitive, let's put in this way, and the cost to serve, given our presence in the state.

但可以肯定的是，我們可以向市場表明，我們目前將注意力集中在業務上，同時也關注可能進入市場的交易。你提到的那些因素在各方面都很重要。聖保羅的街區就在我們家門口，所以這完全合情合理。我認為對我們來說，服務成本是——這麼說吧，我們很有競爭力，而且考慮到我們在州內的規模，服務成本也很高。

In Copasa, if this deal comes through, a lot of challenges still need to be solved, but I think this is an amazing asset, and I think it would make sense for us to take a look at the opportunity as well. But I think the first thing, we need to be in a good position. I think on a quarterly basis, we're improving our execution that allow us to look a little bit outside and if these deals come through, we'll look at them as well.

如果 Copasa 的這筆交易最終達成，仍然有很多挑戰需要解決，但我認為這是一項了不起的資產，我認為我們也應該考慮這個機會。但我認為首先，我們需要處於有利地位。我認為，從季度來看，我們的執行力正在不斷提高，這使我們能夠稍微放眼外部，如果這些交易達成，我們也會考慮它們。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Daniel Travitzky, Safra.

丹尼爾·特拉維茨基，薩夫拉。

Hello, guys, thanks for the opportunity. So I have two questions. First one, the company implemented like recognized provisions for severance program this quarter. So I want to know if the company is planning to implement more of those going forward. And if there are other initiatives that can reduce personnel costs going forward?

大家好，感謝你們給我這個機會。我有兩個問題。首先，公司在本季實施了公認的遣散計畫條款。所以我想知道該公司是否計劃在未來實施更多此類措施。如果還有其他措施可以降低未來的人員成本呢？

The second one, I would like to hear about the company's perspective on the Cantareira reserves currently and how the company plans to deal. You already talked a little bit about it, but if you can explain a little bit more on how the current situation affecting company's operations would be helpful. Thank you.

第二個問題，我想了解公司目前對坎塔雷拉油田儲量的看法，以及公司計劃如何應對。您之前已經稍微談到過這一點，但如果您能再詳細解釋一下當前情況如何影響公司運營，那就太好了。謝謝。

Thank you for the questions -- the two questions. I think in terms of voluntary dismissal program, we don't expect to offer a new program. I think this was the last one. So we gave the opportunity to every employee who wanted to leave. I think we did this twice.

謝謝你們提出的問題——這兩個問題。我認為就自願離職計劃而言，我們不打算推出新的計劃。我想這是最後一個了。因此，我們給了每一位想要離職的員工機會。我想我們做過兩次。

We had roughly 4,000 people that decided to leave. We had a quite -- we put a process in place where the people that decided to leave if they were part of a vertical process or activity, there was a process in a handover process before they left. So even people enrolling in this program, we have people that are going to leave only early next year given the nature of the activity. So this is it.

大約有4000人決定離開。我們制定了一套流程，規定如果員工決定離開，而他們參與的是垂直流程或活動，那麼在他們離開之前，就需要經過交接流程。所以即使是報名參加這個計畫的人，鑑於活動的性質，也有人要到明年年初才會離開。就是這樣。

I think Daniel can explore a little bit about the provisions, but we don't expect anything additional to what we propose. And then starting 2026 is life as usual and without any voluntary -- new voluntary dismissal programs.

我認為丹尼爾可以稍微探討一下條款，但我們不期望在我們提出的方案之外再增加任何內容。然後從 2026 年開始，一切照舊，沒有任何自願離職計畫——新的自願離職計畫。

Regarding the Cantareira data system, I think I'm going to take the opportunity just to take two steps back. I think we had the combination of two very tough, almost we're starting the third web period. The second web period where the level of rain has been below the average.

關於 Cantareira 數據系統，我想我應該藉此機會退後兩步。我認為我們遇到了兩個非常棘手的問題，幾乎就要進入第三個網路週期了。第二個網路週期，降雨量低於平均值。

So the last year between October and March, October 2004 up to March 2025, it was one of the worst rainfall seasons in the last 10 years. The dry season that goes from March, April to October that just ended was below average. It was not one of the worst, but it was below average.

因此，從 2004 年 10 月到 2025 年 3 月的最後一年，是近 10 年來降雨量最大的季節之一。剛結束的三月、四月到十月的旱季降雨量低於平均值。雖然不是最差的，但也低於平均值。

And now we just started the new wet season, rainy season for us here in the region of Sao Paulo. We -- so given all these combinations, I think the state of Sao Paulo, the regulatory agents SABESP [espegos] the new water agency, they put in place a very robust process to monitor the situation. They put in place a contingency plan that we think is robust to deal with this environment, okay?

現在，聖保羅地區正式進入了新的雨季。鑑於所有這些因素，我認為聖保羅州、監管機構 SABESP（espegos，即新的水務機構）制定了一套非常健全的流程來監測情況。他們制定了一項應急計劃，我們認為該計劃足以應對這種環境，好嗎？

Cantareira data system is a little bit over 23% as we speak. We don't foresee this going below 20% for now. Of course, it's very hard to have visibility over 15 days in terms of weather. But everything that we -- all of the simulations that we've done by ourselves with the government where give us comfort, at least for now, that's remote the possibility of the Cantareira system going below 20%.

截至目前，Cantareira 數據系統的準確率略高於 23%。我們預計目前來看，這個數字不會低於20%。當然，要確保連續15天的天氣狀況是非常困難的。但我們自己與政府進行的所有模擬都讓我們感到安心，至少目前來看，坎塔雷拉系統低於 20% 的可能性很小。

But if this happens, there's a discontingency plan that was put in place by the regulatory agency has the provisions to deal with the situation. So just for the knowledge of the market, we have weekly meetings with the government with the regulatory agency, with the water agency about the situation where we looked at what happened in the previous week and what's the forecast to the following weeks and decide on a weekly basis if we need to change our action plan.

但如果這種情況發生，監管機構所製定的緊急應變計畫中已有應對措施。為了了解市場狀況，我們每週都會與政府、監管機構和水務機構開會，討論上週的情況以及未來幾週的預測，並每週決定是否需要改變我們的行動計劃。

So all in all, just to shorten the answer, I think we are in a tougher situation than previous vintages of this dry season -- wet season, sorry. But we don't see anything now that things are going to get worse, and we're going to get to lower levels of the contingency plan that has been put in place. Of course, we are going to update the market this outlook changes. But for now, I think we think that's going to improve from where we stand right now.

總而言之，簡而言之，我認為我們目前的情況比以往任何旱季（抱歉，是雨季）都要嚴峻。但目前我們看不到任何跡象表明情況會變得更糟，我們也不會啟動已經制定的應急計劃的較低級別。當然，我們會根據市場預期的變化及時更新資訊。但就目前而言，我認為情況會比現在有所改善。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Francisco Navarrete, Bradesco BBI.

弗朗西斯科·納瓦雷特，布拉德斯科 BBI。

Piani, Daniel, Thiago, thank you very much for the results in the call. One very simple question, and I think it will be helpful to clarify for some investors that might be confused. But can you remind us about the impact of the social tariff in your revenue in 3Q '25? What was that impact?

Piani、Daniel、Thiago，非常感謝你們在電話會議中提供的成果。一個非常簡單的問題，我認為澄清一下對一些可能感到困惑的投資者會有幫助。您能否提醒我們一下，社會安全稅對您2025年第三季的收入產生了哪些影響？那次影響是什麼？

And then very important, how any lower revenue will be recovered later by the company according to the regulation and the rules already in place? I think that this will help because I think there's no regulatory accounting to neutralize that and I think makes look -- make revenue look lower, but I understand it will be recovered later. If you could help us clarify this? Thank you very much.

還有一個非常重要的問題，根據現行法規和規則，公司日後將如何彌補收入的減少？我認為這會有幫助，因為我認為目前還沒有監管會計方法來抵消這種情況，而且我認為這會讓收入看起來更低，但我明白以後會得到補償。您能幫我們澄清一下嗎？非常感謝。

Thank you, Nava. Thank you for the question. Daniel here. Good question and always good to clarify that to our investors. Look, I'm going to take the movie a little bit a few quarters back, right? So when the new concession agreement was signed in July 2024, there was a specific provision. SABESP already had a mechanism for subsidized tariffs for vulnerable economies. And that was a mechanism that had its own criteria.

謝謝你，納瓦。謝謝你的提問。我是丹尼爾。問得好，向投資人澄清這一點總是必要的。聽著，我要把電影的劇情往前拉近一些，對吧？因此，在 2024 年 7 月簽署新的特許經營協議時，有一項具體條款。SABESP 已經建立了針對脆弱經濟體的關稅補貼機制。那是一種有其自身評判標準的機制。

In the new contract, there was a provision that we had to change the mechanism and change the criteria to adapt to the cadastre Unit, which is the federal welfare program. And that happened -- that started happening in September all the way to November.

新合約中有一項規定，我們必須改變機制和標準，以適應聯邦福利計劃—地籍單位。而這件事確實發生了——從九月一直持續到十一月。

So we saw, for example, when we look at the last -- at Q2 last year, we said about 900,000 economies with access to subsidized rates. In Q3, that number jumped to $1.3 million. And right now, we have about $1.8 million.

例如，當我們回顧去年第二季的數據時，我們發現大約有 90 萬個經濟體獲得了補貼利率。第三季度，這一數字躍升至 130 萬美元。目前，我們大約有180萬美元。

And the way that we got here, right? So there was an overlap of the old mechanism and the new mechanism from September to November of 2024. And then in December, we shut down the old mechanism. And then what we realized was that there were a lot of economies that needed those subsidized rates that were not necessarily eligible to the federal welfare program.

而我們走到今天這一步，正是如此，對吧？因此，從 2024 年 9 月到 11 月，舊機制和新機制有重疊。然後在 12 月，我們關閉了舊機制。然後我們意識到，有許多經濟體需要這些補貼利率，但它們不一定符合聯邦福利計畫的條件。

And one of the things that we work together with the concession and to figure out how we could create some sort of program for those economies, and that happened throughout the first half of 2025. And then in July, we had an amendment to the concession agreement created [Tarifa paulista] class, right?

我們與特許經營方合作，共同探討如何為這些經濟體制定某種計劃，這項工作在 2025 年上半年完成。然後到了 7 月，我們對特許經營協議進行了修訂，創建了 [Tarifa paulista] 類，對吧？

So when we look at Q3 specifically and then going directly to your question, we have about 1.8 million economies with access to subsidized rates that has been relatively stable compared to Q2. So that means that we're looking like we've gotten where we needed to be in terms of people that actually need that benefit.

所以，當我們具體來看第三季度，然後直接回答你的問題時，大約有 180 萬個經濟體獲得了補貼利率，與第二季度相比，這一數字相對穩定。所以這意味著，就真正需要這項福利的人數而言，我們似乎已經達到了目標。

That said, as we go and as we grow, naturally, we grow more to underprivileged communities rather than to more wealthy communities. So it's natural that we will have a few additions there. The impact in dollars or in is actually to our Q3 numbers was about $117 million, as we disclosed in page 8 of the earnings call.

也就是說，隨著我們不斷發展壯大，我們自然而然地會更多地向貧困社區發展，而不是向富裕社區發展。所以，我們自然會在那裡增加一些東西。正如我們在財報電話會議第 8 頁所披露的那樣，這實際上對我們第三季業績的影響約為 1.17 億美元。

And the way that this gets recovered later on is when we do the tariff revision, the annual incorporations of the RAB, we also submit the consumption histogram by class, by tariff class, and that gets adjusted into the mix. So when we talk -- and going back to the contract and the timing of the contract, right?

而我們日後彌補這項損失的方法是，在進行關稅修訂、年度 RAB 合併時，我們也會提交按類別、按關稅類別劃分的消費直方圖，並將其調整到組合中。所以當我們談到——回到合約以及合約的時間表，對吧？

So in 2025 numbers are going to be delivered to the regulator by SABESP until May 2026. And they should be captured into the tariff adjustment that's going to go live in January 1, 2027, okay? So just to clarify where we come from, what's the impact and how we expect that to be adjusted in the future and compensate us in the future. Was that clear?

因此，SABESP 將在 2026 年 5 月之前向監管機構提供 2025 年的相關數據。它們應該納入將於 2027 年 1 月 1 日生效的關稅調整方案中，好嗎？所以，為了澄清我們的背景、影響以及我們希望未來如何調整和補償，我們想說明一下。明白了嗎？

Super. Thank you very much, Daniel.

極好的。非常感謝你，丹尼爾。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thomas Peredo, F8 Capital.

Thomas Peredo，F8 Capital。

Hello, can you guys hear me?

餵，你們聽得到我說話嗎？

Yes. Thomas, go ahead, please.

是的。湯瑪斯，請繼續。

Yes. No, I just want to get a little bit color on what is the level of the of the discounts that you already reduced to large clients and eventually looking at the price mix, there was a lower gain in this quarter when we look versus second Q '25. So trying to understand if there was any other additional impact from the mix, except from the tariff -- from the social tariff.

是的。不，我只是想了解你們已經向大客戶降低的折扣力度，以及最終從價格組合來看，與 2025 年第二季度相比，本季度的收益有所下降。因此，我想了解除了關稅之外，這種組合是否還有其他額外的影響——例如社會關稅。

Great question, Thomas. Good thing to clarify as well. So on page 8 as well, the total gain that we got from the discount removal was BRL133 million in the quarter. Going back, Q1 was BRL100 million; Q2, BRL110 million; Q3, BRL133 million. And the actions behind that were we did a first wave of contract terminations at the end of last year that started affecting this year.

湯瑪斯，問得好。澄清一下也很好。因此，在第 8 頁，我們從取消折扣中獲得的總收益在本季為 1.33 億巴西雷亞爾。回顧過去，第一季為 1 億雷亞爾；第二季為 1.1 億雷亞爾；第三季為 1.33 億雷亞爾。而背後的行動是，我們在去年年底進行了第一波合約終止，這波終止影響到了今年。

We did the second wave in Q2. Those had a little bit longer cure period. So we had a little bit more unwinding time in those contracts. So we're starting to see these contracts have the discount removed now.

我們在第二季完成了第二波。那些需要稍長一些的癒合期。所以我們在那些合約中留出了一些緩衝時間。所以我們現在開始看到這些合約的折扣被取消了。

And the reason why you see this when we try to break down the impacts is the discount removal from large clients actually hits us in two places: price and mix because these guys, they -- some of them, they have a change into their rate and some of them move from a subclass in terms of how we build them.

之所以在分析影響時會看到這種情況，是因為取消大客戶的折扣實際上會從兩個方面影響我們：價格和組合，因為這些客戶——其中一些客戶的費率發生了變化，而另一些客戶的業務模式則發生了變化。

So they move from a class of Demanda Firme to a regular consumption class, and that hits us in mix. So a part of -- so when you look at, for example, page 7, we have BRL77 million impact of mix. But the impact from the social tariff is BRL117 million. So the difference comes from a gain in Demanda Firme came from large clients. So it hits us in these two places, okay?

因此，他們從需求穩定的階層轉變為普通的消費階層，這影響了我們的混合消費。所以一部分——例如，當你查看第 7 頁時，我們看到 7700 萬巴西雷亞爾的混合影響。但社會關稅的影響為 1.17 億雷亞爾。所以，差異來自於 Demanda Firme 從大客戶那裡獲得的成長。所以它會從這兩個方面影響我們，好嗎？

And that's why when you look at the bridge in page 7 and compare to the numbers in page 8, we try to isolate to you the actual impacts from the actions and the bridge in the page prior, we try to isolate to you the impacts by lever, okay?

所以，當你查看第 7 頁的橋樑並與第 8 頁的數字進行比較時，我們會努力為你呈現行動的實際影響；而當你查看前一頁的橋樑並與之比較時，我們會努力為你呈現槓桿的影響，明白嗎？

Thank you very much,

非常感謝，

Andre, Metadoge Investimento.

Andre，Metadoge Investimento。

Hello, guys. Thank you for picking my questions. The -- [sebastian] commented the universalization would be achieved ahead of schedule. With this in mind, we can expect early dividend payout, imagining that universalization will be achieved early? Thank you.

大家好。謝謝你選擇我的問題。塞巴斯蒂安評論說，普及化將會提前實現。考慮到這一點，我們可以預期會提前支付股息，假設普及化能夠提前實現？謝謝。

Thank you, Andre. Daniel, here again. Look, first, when we say that we think universalization is going to be met earlier, we're talking more about 2025. We're still looking a little bit where we can have a little bit more certainty, which is a little bit more on the short term than on the long term. We're trying to finalize some of the conceptual studies all the way through '29. So this is one thing that we're doing and will give a little bit more clarity to us and certainty.

謝謝你，安德烈。丹尼爾又來了。首先，當我們說我們認為普及化將會提前實現時，我們指的是 2025 年。我們仍在尋找能夠讓我們更有把握的地方，這更多的是短期目標，而不是長期目標。我們正在努力完成一些概念研究，一直持續到 2029 年。所以，這是我們正在做的一件事，它將給我們帶來更多的清晰思路和確定性。

But that said, Andre, one of the things that we have to keep in mind, I think we have two or three things to keep in mind before looking at discussing the dividend policy, which is set, right, and needs alignment from our Board. But we have to think about cost of capital, which is very high right now in our country. And two, we have to think about the question that some of you asked about M&A opportunities.

但是，安德烈，有一件事我們必須牢記，我認為在討論股息政策之前，我們有兩三件事需要考慮，股息政策已經制定，對吧，現在需要董事會的協調一致。但我們必須考慮資金成本，而目前我國的資金成本非常高。第二，我們必須考慮一下你們中一些人提出的關於併購機會的問題。

So leaving a little bit more room in our balance sheet to have the ability to deploy capital at a rate of return that's better than our stock, the than implied rate of our stock gives us an impression that's a good thing to do, at least for a little bit, and then we'll figure out how we move that in the future. But this is definitely something that's a subject that we continually revisit.

因此，在資產負債表上留出更多空間，以便能夠以高於股票收益率的回報率部署資本，相比之下，股票的隱含收益率給我們留下的印像是，這樣做至少在短期內是件好事，然後我們會考慮未來如何調整。但這絕對是我們會不斷重新探討的話題。

But the main point here is to make sure that we have the resources to achieve the universalization and then potentially act on opportunities to deploy your capital in a rate of return that's greater than the implied rate of the stock.

但關鍵在於確保我們有足夠的資源來實現普及化，然後抓住機會，以高於股票隱含收益率的回報率部署資本。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Arthur Pereira, JPMorgan.

亞瑟‧佩雷拉，摩根大通。

Hey, good morning, guys. So two questions on our side. The first one, if you could provide a little bit more details on the layoff program. If I'm not mistaken, you mentioned 1,800 employees. Just to get a sense on the expected payback and how many employees do you expect to hire back new employees?

嘿，各位早安。所以我們有兩個問題。第一個問題，您能否提供更多關於裁員計畫的細節？如果我沒記錯的話，你有提到有 1800 名員工。只是想了解預期的投資回報期，以及您預計會重新招募多少新員工？

And the second on the delinquency rates, this was also a positive surprise to our numbers. Just to get a sense if is there any special initiative on place if the -- what we saw in the third quarter is the run rate that we can assume for the upcoming quarters? Thank you.

其次，關於違約率，我們的數據也出現了令人驚訝的正面變化。只是想了解一下，是否有任何特別舉措正在實施中——如果我們在第三季度看到的運行速度能夠代表未來幾季的運行速度，那會怎麼樣？謝謝。

Thanks for the question. I'll take the first part, Daniel will take the second part. I think we don't disclose the returns of this program, but what I can tell you is that we have threshold we need to justify the investment that we make to our Board and we passed this threshold that was required by them.

謝謝你的提問。我負責第一部分，丹尼爾負責第二部分。我認為我們不會公開這個專案的收益，但我可以告訴你的是，我們需要達到一定的門檻來向董事會證明我們投資的合理性，而我們已經達到了他們要求的這個門檻。

I think one information that we can disclose based on the past one, give or take, the first one, a little bit over 2,000 people enrolled, and we hired, give or take, 1,000 back, give or take, okay? So this is ongoing regarding the second one. It's not that we're not going to replace any of them. But if the last program that we did, we rehired, let's put it this way, for the positions, okay? Daniel?

我認為根據過去的情況，我們可以透露的訊息是，第一屆有 2000 多人報名，我們又招回了 1000 多人，好嗎？所以第二個問題還在處理中。並不是說我們完全不打算替換它們。但是，如果我們上次做的項目，我們重新招募了，這麼說吧，是為了填補這些職缺，好嗎？丹尼爾？

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for your question. So with regards to delinquency, look, we've been acting on the fronts that we've been communicating, I think, since we came here that we would start acting first, right, removal of discounts to large clients, looking at all our legal claims and the legal wallet and trying to do settlements where applicable, where we had a good gain this quarter for BRL50 million also that we disclosed in the G&A page.

是的。謝謝。謝謝你的提問。所以關於拖欠款項的問題，你看，我們一直在採取我們一直在溝通的措施，我認為，自從我們來到這裡以來，我們就一直在採取行動，首先取消對大客戶的折扣，審查我們所有的法律索賠和法律支出，並在適用的情況下嘗試達成和解，本季度我們還獲得了 5000 萬巴西雷亞爾的良好收益，我們在 G&A 頁面上披露了這一點。

And also on the collection, right, the company had historically presented a gap versus the regulatory allowance for delinquency. And we've started using technology to improve our collection rates, right? So we're starting using WhatsApp. We're the first company -- utility company to use Pix Automático in the country.

另外，在催收方面，該公司歷來都存在拖欠款項與監管機構允許的拖欠款項之間的差距。我們已經開始利用科技手段來提高收款率，對吧？所以我們開始使用WhatsApp了。我們是全國第一家使用 Pix Automático 的公用事業公司。

So we're starting to improve and have better collection tools, and this is starting to show, like Piani commented on his speech on the presentation, we had 101% collection rate in the quarter, where historically the company was more like 97%. So we're starting to improve there.

所以我們開始改進，擁有更好的收款工具，這一點也開始顯現出來，正如皮亞尼在演講中提到的那樣，我們本季度的收款率達到了 101%，而公司歷史上的收款率約為 97%。所以我們在這方面開始有所改進。

Naturally, the backlog is bigger as we come in. In the future, this probably needs to stabilize at some point. But in the beginning, we have more opportunity than at the end. So that's where we're focusing now, and we're spending a lot of money and effort here to achieve those impacts.

當然，我們接手時積壓的工作量更大。未來，這種情況或許需要一段時間才能穩定下來。但一開始我們擁有的機會比最後更多。所以這就是我們現在關注的重點，我們在這裡投入了大量的資金和精力來實現這些影響。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Guilherme Bosso, Goldman Sachs.

吉爾赫姆·博索，高盛。

Hi, thank you, again. Just one more question from our side. If you could please share more details on the OpEx performance in the quarter. We noticed a significant year-over-year decrease in some lines such as energy and general expenses. What we could expect going forward in terms of recurring costs? Thank you, again.

您好，再次感謝。我們還有一個問題。請您提供更多關於本季營運支出表現的詳細資訊。我們注意到，能源和一般開支等一些項目較去年同期大幅下降。未來我們預期經常性成本會有哪些變化？再次感謝。

Thank you, Guilherme, Daniel again here. Look, on power, I think one of the things that we are doing super well and that's kudos to Luciane, Gisele and the team here that manages that front. We're expanding our consumption in the free market, right? Just to give you, for example, one data point, in September, 82% of the consumption was in the free market. That's a big change versus a year ago where we had about 50%, 55% in the free market.

謝謝你，Guilherme，我是Daniel。說到實力，我認為我們做得非常好的一點就是，這要歸功於盧西亞娜、吉賽兒以及負責這方面的團隊。我們正在自由市場中擴大消費，對吧？舉個例子，9 月份，82% 的消費是在自由市場上進行的。與一年前相比，這是一個很大的變化，當時自由市場佔比約為 50% 到 55%。

So that's a great improvement. And naturally, the cost of that is better. And also, it's something that's more sustainable for us thinking about having knowledge of where that power comes from and being renewable and so on and so forth.

這是一個很大的進步。當然，它的成本也更低。而且，考慮到了解能源的來源、能源的可再生性等等，對我們來說，這也是一種更永續的方式。

In that front, we have already issued a notice to the market in the past that we're also pursuing auto production projects that we are going to start ramping up throughout 2026, both with partners and also in-house. So we have about 45 -- we will achieve about 40 farms -- 44 solar farms over the next months.

在這方面，我們過去已經向市場發出通知，我們正在推進汽車生產項目，並將於 2026 年全年逐步擴大規模，包括與合作夥伴和內部生產。因此，我們目前大約有 45 個——我們將在未來幾個月內建造約 40 個——44 個太陽能發電場。

So this is something that's going to allow us to continue improving there, which is one of our most important cost lines, right? Allowance for doubtful accounts goes back to the last question, where we're starting to apply technology and starting to apply artificial intelligence to our collection process. And there's a lot of room here to continue improving.

所以這將使我們能夠繼續改進這方面，而這又是我們最重要的成本控制項目之一，對吧？壞帳準備金與上一個問題有關，我們開始將科技和人工智慧應用於我們的收款流程。這裡還有很大的進步空間。

And I think it's very hard to think about what are going to be recurring costs right now. Thiago often says that it's going to take a while for us to think about recurring costs. We have opportunities that are probably going to be step reductions and productivity improvements, right? But -- and there will be things that are going to gradually improve. So I think we have the combination of the two things. And even for us internally, it's very tricky to think about recurring costs right now.

我覺得現在很難預測哪些會是經常性成本。蒂亞戈常說，我們需要一段時間才能考慮經常性成本。我們有機會降低工作等級並提高生產效率，對吧？但是──有些事情會逐漸好轉。所以我認為我們兼具了這兩方面的優勢。即使對我們公司內部而言，現在考慮經常性成本也是非常棘手的。

Got it. Thank you, Daniel.

知道了。謝謝你，丹尼爾。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Francisco Navarrete, Bradesco BBI.

弗朗西斯科·納瓦雷特，布拉德斯科 BBI。

Thank you for the opportunity, again. About the FAUSP fund, you mentioned -- Daniel and Piani mentioned that increase of 50 basis points in the rate you're paying to the FAUSP. And of course, this was adjusted on adjusted EBITDA, which was the right thing to do. But just if you could remind us how this could be recovered back and how it will be adjusted going forward? Just to make clear that this is not. Thank you.

再次感謝您給我這次機會。關於您提到的 FAUSP 基金——丹尼爾和皮亞尼提到，您支付給 FAUSP 的利率將增加 50 個基點。當然，這根據調整後的 EBITDA 進行了調整，這樣做是正確的。但您能否提醒我們一下，如何才能恢復這項功能，以及未來將如何進行調整？需要澄清的是，事實並非如此。謝謝。

Sure. Thank you, Nava. Look, when we started the contract, right, there was a specific provision about the actual balancing rate and the rate that's actually being charged to the consumers. And we interpreted that when we read the contract and because we needed to start accruing for that from the onset, right?

當然。謝謝你，納瓦。你看，我們簽訂合約的時候，對吧，合約裡有一項關於實際平衡費率和實際向消費者收取的費率的具體規定。我們在閱讀合約時也這樣理解了，因為我們需要從一開始就開始為此累積資金，對吧？

So what we did was we -- our interpretation was that this was 3.28%. And in parallel, we asked the regulator for clarification to make sure that we had something in writing. We got that clarification in Q3 -- in early Q3 2025. And the clarification came that the rate was actually 3.78%. So the difference is 0.5%.

所以我們所做的就是——我們的解讀是，這是 3.28%。同時，我們要求監管機構做出澄清，以確保我們有書面文件作為依據。我們在第三季得到了澄清——也就是 2025 年第三季初。後來澄清，實際利率為 3.78%。所以差別是0.5%。

Naturally, when we did -- what we had to do was a catch-up accrual from July '24 to June '25, that was BRL108 million that we removed from the quarter's results, given that this is something that's relative to the past and to make sure that this was up to date. But the actual rate impact from 3.28% to 3.78% over the revenue of Q3 is still in the organic recurring results, okay?

當然，當我們這樣做的時候——我們必須做的是從 2024 年 7 月到 2025 年 6 月的追繳應計項目，即 1.08 億巴西雷亞爾，我們從該季度的業績中剔除了這筆款項，因為這是相對於過去的情況，為了確保這是最新的。但第三季營收從 3.28% 到 3.78% 的實際利率影響仍體現在有機經常性收入結果中，懂嗎？

This goes to FAUUSP, right? So in the end, this increases the size of the fund that in the future will be used to amortize the rate impact to the population as we continue investing in the universalization. So in the end, this is something that eventually will come back to the company. But when that dynamic of balancing rate and application rate shifts from the balancing rate being lower -- being higher than the application rate, which is the opposite today. So that's how it works.

這應該發給FAUUSP吧？因此，最終這將增加未來用於攤銷利率對民眾影響的基金規模，因為我們將繼續投資於普及化進程。所以歸根究底，這件事最終還是會反噬到公司身上。但是，當平衡率和應用率的這種動態關係從平衡率較低轉變為高於應用率時，情況就發生了變化，而今天的情況恰恰相反。原來是這樣。

Thank you very much, Daniel.

非常感謝你，丹尼爾。

Mariel Abreu, T. Rowe Price.

Mariel Abreu，T. Rowe Price。

Hi, thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to -- since it's clear that you're looking at inorganic opportunities that may come to the market, how should we think about the potential -- maybe a potential tap of the current bond or issuance of more debt at this point? Thank you.

您好，謝謝您給我這個機會。我只是想問一下——既然很明顯你們在關注可能進入市場的非有機成長機會，我們該如何看待這種可能性——例如在這個時候動用現有債券或發行更多債務？謝謝。

Thank you, Mariel. Good to see you here, and thank you for your question. Look, when we think -- even if we don't think about M&A right now, right, we have a BRL70 billion commitment that was disclosed in the concession contract, right? Our view is that BRL40 billion to BRL50 billion of that is going to come through debt.

謝謝你，瑪麗爾。很高興在這裡見到你，感謝你的提問。你看，即使我們現在不考慮併購，我們也有700億雷亞爾的承諾，這筆承諾已在特許經營合約中披露，對吧？我們認為其中 400 億至 500 億雷亞爾將透過債務籌集。

To date, we have raised BRL13 billion out of the BRL40 billion to BRL50 billion and are in the process offering another BRL5 billion, which is going to be -- which is going to be finished by the end of this week. So we'll continue to raise that.

到目前為止，我們已經籌集了 400 億至 500 億雷亞爾中的 130 億雷亞爾，目前正在進行另外 50 億雷亞爾的融資，這將在本週末完成。所以我們會繼續提出這個問題。

And I think our objective as management is to keep all the doors open for ourselves because given the scale of that challenge, mechanically the challenge, we need to make sure that we are not exposed to take risk in any of the markets. So that's why we're leaving all the doors open and trying to be innovative and trying to do new things.

我認為，作為管理層，我們的目標是為自己敞開所有大門，因為考慮到挑戰的規模，從機制上講，我們需要確保我們不會在任何市場承擔風險。所以這就是為什麼我們要敞開所有大門，努力創新，努力嘗試新事物的原因。

For example, when I mentioned about the BRL13 billion, we just raised out of that, about BRL1 billion is a loan that we just executed with JICA that had not lent money to the company for more than 10 years. So that was a great thing that the team here did and continuing to open more doors and continuing to really future-proof our ability to raise money to ensure that we deliver the universal access, Mariel. But thank you for the question.

例如，當我提到我們剛剛籌集的 130 億雷亞爾資金時，其中約 10 億雷亞爾是我們剛剛與日本國際協力機構 (JICA) 達成的貸款協議，而 JICA 已經超過 10 年沒有向該公司提供貸款了。所以，我們團隊所做的這件事非常棒，他們不斷打開更多的大門，不斷真正地為未來的籌款能力做好準備，以確保我們能夠提供全民接入，瑪麗埃爾。不過，謝謝你的提問。

And just to add one point of Daniel, some of these opportunities, mainly the ones that are going to be the sale of 100% of the asset, most of them are unleveraged. So the asset will have the capacity to leverage. So the blocks in Sao Paulo will be debt free, depending on one of the deals that was mentioned here before. If it's a controlled deal with [long] there's, opportunity to leverage. So not necessarily the deals that are going to come to market are going to be LBOs. They need to be leveraged at the acquired level.

丹尼爾補充一點，這些機會中的一些，主要是那些將出售 100% 資產的機會，大部分都沒有槓桿。因此，該資產將具有槓桿作用。因此，聖保羅的這些地塊將不會背負債務，這取決於先前提到的其中一項交易。如果是長期可控交易，則有機會加以利用。所以，即將進入市場的交易不一定會是槓桿收購。需要在收購層面上充分利用這些資源。

Yeah, that's very helpful. Thank you.

是的，這很有幫助。謝謝。

Luiza Candiota, Itaú.

Luiza Candiota，伊塔烏。

Hi, guys. Good morning and thank you for the opportunity. I have a question regarding the CapEx execution in the quarter. So we know that the company has been accelerating its investment pace over the last quarter. And I just want you to provide more details on the breakdown of this BRL4 billion of CapEx in the quarter and how the plan regarding water metering improvement is progressing within this agenda? Thank you.

嗨，大家好。早安，感謝您給我這個機會。我有一個關於本季度資本支出執行情況的問題。因此我們知道，該公司在過去一個季度加快了投資步伐。我想請您提供更多關於本季40億雷亞爾資本支出明細，以及水錶改進計劃在該議程中的進展情況？謝謝。

Look, maybe let me start from the end. On water metering, right, Q3 saw us executing 500,000 meter replacements, which is the same that we did in the first half entirely. So we doubled the pace at which we are replacing meters. We're not yet live with the EMAE contract with Vivo. This is going to start now in January as the ultrasonic meters, they start arriving with the EMAE technology.

好吧，或許我應該從結尾開始。關於水錶計量，沒錯，第三季我們完成了 50 萬個水錶更換，這與我們上半年完成的數量完全相同。因此，我們將更換儀表的速度提高了一倍。我們與vivo的EMAE合約尚未正式生效。從一月開始，超音波儀表將開始採用 EMAE 技術。

So we've been increasing the pace here. Naturally, most of our investment right now is in sewage, right, because this is really where the gap is in terms of service, right? So a lot of the investment right now is happening in the wastewater -- in the sewage treatment plants in the metropolitan region in Sao Paulo in the retrofits and now starting the expansion phase, right, and also in sewage collection networks so that we can increase the amount of the sewage that actually becomes treated.

所以我們一直在加快腳步。當然，我們目前的大部分投資都集中在污水處理方面，對吧？因為這確實是服務方面存在的差距所在，對吧？所以目前很多投資都集中在廢水處理方面──聖保羅大都會區的污水處理廠正在進行改造，現在又開始了擴建階段，對吧？此外，污水收集網路也在進行投資，以便我們能夠增加實際處理的污水量。

So that's really where the bulk of the CapEx is right now. One of the things that we mentioned, and Piani talked about water safety and future-proofing our cash flows and the service to the population, we've -- we're starting to look at additional investments to enhance the water safety of the region. We're going to do about BRL5 billion over the next two years in incremental investments to increase the ability to have more reservation and to have more production and more connections of water.

所以，目前大部分資本支出都花在這方面了。我們提到的一件事，也是皮亞尼談到的，是關於水安全、保障未來的現金流以及為民眾提供服務，我們已經開始考慮追加投資，以提高該地區的水安全。未來兩年，我們將投入約 50 億雷亞爾進行增量投資，以提高蓄水能力、提高產量和增加供水連接。

Thank you. The Q&A session is now over. We wish to give the floor to Mr. Carlos Piani for the company's closing remarks.

謝謝。問答環節結束。我們謹請卡洛斯·皮亞尼先生代表公司致閉幕詞。

I just want to thank you all once again for joining the call and for your continued interest in SABESP. We appreciate all questions, the engagement, and we look forward for updating you all in the progress in the next quarter. Have you all a great day, and see you in the next earnings call.

我再次感謝各位參加這次電話會議，並感謝大家一直以來對 SABESP 的關注。我們感謝大家提出的所有問題和積極參與，並期待在下一季向大家報告進度。祝大家今天過得愉快，我們下次財報電話會議再見。

Thank you. SABESP earnings presentation is now closed. Thank you very much for your participation and we wish you all a very good day.

謝謝。SABESP的業績發表會現已結束。非常感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。