Companhia de Saneamento Basico do Estado de Sao Paulo - SABESP (SBS) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

(spoken in Portuguese)

（以葡萄牙語發言）

(spoken in Portuguese) -- right after the approval of the antitrust in 2013. I spent 10 years across three different regions, mostly as a CFO. And a little less than one year ago, I left to ComBio, the largest thermal energy company in the country, where I had heavily involved in business focused on improving sustainability for our country and making a positive impact for our population.

（以葡萄牙語發言）－2013 年反壟斷法案獲得批准後。我在三個不同地區工作了 10 年，主要擔任財務長。不到一年前，我離開了全國最大的熱能公司 ComBio，在那裡我積極參與了專注於提高國家可持續發展並為我們的人民產生積極影響的業務。

Just recently, with the privatization process nearing completion, I received this invitation to join this very special project, which is SABESP. Since October 1, I have been here, and I'm ever more confident on our team's stability to bring universal sanitation to our concession area.

就在最近，隨著私有化過程接近完成，我收到了加入這個非常特別的計畫的邀請，這就是 SABESP。自10月1日以來，我來到這裡，我對我們團隊的穩定性更有信心，為我們的特許區提供普遍的衛生設施。

Today, we're going to talk about the Q3 results in a brief manner because this is a result of the previous management. This quarter included a series of new events that are worth reviewing in general terms, which are better detailed in the performance commentary in the ITR.

今天，我們將簡要討論第三季的業績，因為這是前管理階層的成果。本季發生了一系列值得整體回顧的新事件，ITR 中的績效評論對此進行了更詳細的說明。

The first key point is the bifurcation of financial assets, which according to IFRS 12, requires us to separate from intangible assets, the portion that will not necessarily be compensated through tariffs over the useful life of these assets but will instead be reimbursed by the guarantee authority after its expiration.

第一個關鍵點是金融資產的分叉，根據IFRS 12，這要求我們從無形資產中分離出來，這部分不一定會在這些資產的使用壽命內透過關稅得到補償，而是會透過擔保來償還期滿後的權限。

Previously, the company did not need to make that distinction since it belonged to the company. However, in the new model, renewal requires a new bidding process, making this adjustment absolutely necessary.

在此之前，公司不需要進行這種區分，因為它屬於公司。然而，在新模式下，續約需要新的招標流程，因此這種調整是絕對必要的。

From the economic perspective, this adjustment represents a deferred revenue that was calculated by updating the regulatory asset base with the IPCA inflation index until the present moment. And that brought an impact of approximately BRL8.8 billion on gross revenue, and the associated tax will be deferred similar to this revenue. We see this effect in all the quarters, although in a smaller scale, proportional to the RAB. And this will depend on the life cycle of -- depending on the concession.

從經濟角度來看，這項調整代表了遞延收入，是透過迄今為止的IPCA通膨指數更新監管資產基礎來計算的。這對總收入產生了約 88 億雷亞爾的影響，相關稅收將與該收入類似地遞延。我們在所有季度都看到了這種效應，儘管規模較小，但與 RAB 成正比。這將取決於—取決於特許權的生命週期。

The second point relates to transition. Naturally, with the shift from a state-owned to a private company, several management aspects need to be adjusted. So to add in this transition, we hired a PMI consultancy that supported us throughout the transition period. Additionally, we incurred all the costs associated with the offer during Q3.

第二點涉及過渡。當然，隨著國營企業向私人企業的轉變，一些管理方面需要進行調整。因此，為了增加這一過渡，我們聘請了一家 PMI 諮詢公司，在整個過渡期間為我們提供支援。此外，我們在第三季承擔了與該優惠相關的所有費用。

Upon our arrival, we also took time to reassess the company's assets and the continuity of certain projects and some legal proceedings. And we operated a couple of changes, generating non-recurring effects of the operations.

抵達後，我們也花時間重新評估了公司的資產以及某些項目和一些法律程序的連續性。我們進行了一些更改，產生了非重複性的操作效果。

Excluding those effects and the impact of construction, the underlying result showed a significant increase of the net revenue of around 7%, which translated into a 17% increase in the EBITDA. This boost was driven by not only a growth in the unit cost per cubic meter, but also sewage, close to 80%. Additionally, we generated operational cash of BRL1.6 billion that was almost entirely reinvested in the asset base.

排除這些影響和建設的影響，基本結果顯示淨收入顯著成長約 7%，這意味著 EBITDA 成長 17%。推動這一成長的不僅是每立方公尺單位成本的成長，還有污水排放的成長，接近80%。此外，我們還產生了 16 億雷亞爾的營運現金，幾乎全部再投資於資產基礎。

So delving deeper into the results, the revenue increase I mentioned was driven by a 2% growth in volume. Half of this growth came from new connections and the increased consumption in the already existing connections. And the other half of the consumption growth was in the existing connections.

因此，深入研究結果，我提到的收入成長是由銷售成長 2% 推動的。這一增長的一半來自新連接和現有連接消耗的增加。消費成長的另一半來自於現有的連結。

The remaining revenue growth stemmed from pricing and mix readjustments: 6.4% tariff readjustment in 2024 reduced by 1% and doused upon the completion of the privatization process, resulting in a net positive effect of close to 5%. The inclusion of the Cad Unico, the Unified Registry in the vulnerable tariff category, and that generated a negative effect of almost BRL30 billion with -- at 0.5%. And all of that is the net of FAUSP, which represents 3% of our tariff and belongs to the granting authority, discussing the net revenue rather than the gross.

剩餘的收入成長源自於定價和結構調整：2024 年 6.4% 的關稅調整降低了 1%，並在私有化過程完成後澆滅，產生了接近 5% 的淨正效應。將 Cad Unico（統一登記處）納入易受影響的關稅類別，產生了近 300 億雷亞爾的負面影響，稅率為 0.5%。所有這些都是FAUSP的淨額，它占我們關稅的3%，屬於授予機構，討論的是淨收入而不是毛收入。

Looking at the EBITDA, we saw an improvement in the unit cost per cubic meter, especially in personnel expenses, still reflecting gains of the PDI that we executed last year with departures continuing until June '24, accounting for 40% of the BRL167 million. The remainder was driven by the reduction on service costs, especially expenses incurred in '23 in order to meet quality standards for some municipalities in the network maintenance. With this mixed scenario, with a net cost increase of around 9%, primarily due to a 12% rise in consumption, and this increase was necessary for reservoir management during the dry period of Q3 '24 versus Q3 '23. On the positive side, we had a 3% reduction on the average tariff by optimizing the mix between free contracting environment and regulated contracting environment, where the free contracting environment reached 55%.

從EBITDA 來看，我們看到每立方公尺的單位成本有所改善，特別是在人員費用方面，這仍然反映了我們去年執行的PDI 的收益，出發持續到24 年6 月，佔1.67 億雷亞爾的40%。其餘部分是由於服務成本的減少，特別是 23 年為滿足某些城市的網路維護品質標準而產生的費用。在這種混合情境下，淨成本增加約 9%，主要是由於消耗量增加 12%，與 23 年第三季相比，這種增加對於 24 年第三季乾旱期間的水庫管理是必要的。從正面的一面來看，我們透過優化自由承包環境和規範承包環境的組合，使平均資費下降了3%，其中自由承包環境達到了55%。

At the net profit level, besides the previously mentioned effects, we had a positive impact of BRL170 million. And this was mainly due to the new concession contract, which extended the useful life of our assets and with some gain in the financial results, largely attributed to the hedging strategy for foreign currency debt, which did not exist before.

在淨利潤層面，除了前面提到的影響外，我們還產生了1.7億雷亞爾的正面影響。這主要是由於新的特許權合約延長了我們資產的使用壽命，並且財務業績有所增長，這很大程度上歸功於以前不存在的外幣債務對沖策略。

On the investment front, we completed BRL1.4 billion this quarter. And we've made quite a few adjustments here, particularly in the terms of the procurement methods. Naturally, the company does need to undergo a formal bidding process, allowing us to break projects into smaller packages, contracting more candidates and so on. With those changes, we anticipate being able to accelerate the CapEx execution significantly in the coming months. However, we do not expect anything exceeding BRL6.5 billion or BRL7 billion until the end of the year, and we do not foresee any negative impacts on the unit factor and the delays should be recovered by the first half of '25.

在投資方面，本季我們完成了 14 億雷亞爾。我們在這裡做了很多調整，特別是在採購方式方面。當然，公司確實需要經過正式的招標流程，使我們能夠將專案分成更小的包，簽約更多的候選人等等。透過這些變化，我們預計能夠在未來幾個月內大幅加快資本支出執行速度。然而，我們預計到今年年底，任何金額都不會超過65 億雷亞爾或70 億雷亞爾，並且我們預計不會對單位因素產生任何負面影響，並且延遲應該會在25 年上半年之前得到恢復。

Moving forward and looking at our leverage levels, the company remains rather well within the covenants agreed upon the financing lines. And the return on capital and equity for the quarter accumulated over the last past months -- sorry, over the last 12 months remains in line with the results from previous periods.

展望未來，看看我們的槓桿水平，該公司仍然很好地遵守了融資額度商定的契約。過去幾個月累積的本季資本和股本回報率——抱歉，過去 12 個月的回報率與先前期間的結果保持一致。

Let me now give the floor over to Carlos Piani, our CEO, and thank you, and we shall speak again during the Q&A session.

現在讓我請我們的執行長 Carlos Piani 發言，謝謝您，我們將在問答環節再次發言。

Thank you, Daniel. Good morning. As mentioned, my name is Carlos Piani, and I'm the new CEO of SABESP. I took on this role on October 1, and I was very proud and deeply touched by the sense of responsibility. It is a privilege to lead the largest sanitation company of the country, serving nearly 30 million people and directly impacting the future of not only the state of Sao Paulo, but of the country as a whole.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。早安.如前所述，我叫 Carlos Piani，是 SABESP 的新任執行長。我於10月1日接任這個角色，我感到非常自豪，也被責任感深深感動。我很榮幸能夠領導全國最大的環衛公司，為近 3000 萬人提供服務，不僅直接影響聖保羅州的未來，而且直接影響整個國家的未來。

For those of you who do not know me, I have over 25 years' experience in Brazil and abroad, and approximately half of this time has been dedicated leading large companies, while the other half was focused on managing investments in public and private companies. And in these first 40 days, my priority was basically to define the main objectives for the newly privatized SABESP.

對於那些不認識我的人來說，我在巴西和國外擁有超過 25 年的經驗，其中大約一半的時間致力於領導大公司，而另一半則專注於管理上市和私人公司的投資。在這最初的 40 天裡，我的首要任務基本上是確定新私有化的 SABESP 的主要目標。

On the next slide, I would like to outline the key areas that we are going to prioritize. The new SABESP faces two major challenges. The first one is a very ambitious investment program, aimed at accelerating the universalization of sanitation services with an over BRL60 billion planned investments. This investment also includes the obligation to serve new consumer groups such as rural areas, informal communities. And it represents one of the largest investment programs in the country over the next five years. And adjusting the supply chain to meet this demand will be essential.

在下一張投影片中，我想概述我們要優先考慮的關鍵領域。新的 SABESP 面臨兩大挑戰。第一個是一項非常雄心勃勃的投資計劃，旨在加速衛生服務的普及，計劃投資超過 600 億雷亞爾。這項投資也包括服務農村地區、非正規社區等新消費群體的義務。它是未來五年該國最大的投資計劃之一。調整供應鏈以滿足這種需求至關重要。

Secondly, adapting to the new concession contract, which presents some gaps between regulatory parameters and the practical reality. The contract imposes various obligations and quality indicators, as well as annual tariff reviews instead of the usual four- to five-year intervals, adding further challenges for regulatory, financial and engineering departments.

其次，適應新的特許經營合同，監管參數與實際情況之間存在一些差距。該合約規定了各種義務和品質指標，以及年度關稅審查，而不是通常的四到五年間隔，這給監管、金融和工程部門帶來了進一步的挑戰。

In addition to these challenges, privatization enables the company to reach new operational, commercial and financial heights. Operationally, we need to do more with less in a standardized manner, keeping quality, while increasing water resilience to fight climate change, which intensifies floods and droughts.

除了這些挑戰之外，私有化還使公司能夠達到新的營運、商業和財務高度。在操作上，我們需要以標準化的方式少花錢多辦事，保持質量，同時提高水的抵禦能力，以應對氣候變化，從而加劇洪水和乾旱。

From the commercial perspective, we hope to expand our revenue protection initiatives that will fight losses and will increase the collection, at the same time, as we enhance customer experience and strengthening relationship with all the stakeholders.

從商業角度來看，我們希望擴大收入保護舉措，以對抗損失並增加收款，同時提高客戶體驗並加強與所有利害關係人的關係。

Now, financially, our challenge is to free up resources for the investments through rigorous cost control and a very efficient capital structure. These resources will also be essential to growth in adjacent areas to explore selected M&As that might add to our portfolio.

現在，在財務上，我們的挑戰是透過嚴格的成本控制和非常有效率的資本結構來釋放投資資源。這些資源對於鄰近領域的成長也至關重要，以探索可能增加我們投資組合的選定併購。

In order to support this advancement, SABESP needs a new foundation, which is centered on people, technology and processes. We will implement an organizational structure that is aligned with our ambitions with a skilled and results-oriented team, fostering this high-performance culture. Technology will play a central role in it, and we might need to rebuild part of our IT structure and adopt new automation and digital transformation technologies. It might be fundamental to redesign processes and routines, incorporating regulatory, environmental and risk management perspectives in all our actions.

為了支持這項進步，SABESP 需要一個以人員、技術和流程為中心的新基礎。我們將實施一個與我們的抱負一致的組織結構，並配備一支技術精湛、以結果為導向的團隊，培養這種高績效文化。科技將在其中發揮核心作用，我們可能需要重建部分IT結構並採用新的自動化和數位轉型技術。重新設計流程和例程，將監管、環境和風險管理的觀點納入我們的所有行動中，這可能是至關重要的。

Thus, these eight priority areas will form the foundation on which we will build the future of new SABESP's solid foundation that will enable us to face new challenges and to achieve a new level of efficiency and sustainable growth. These priorities will guide our actions and will shape our path forward.

因此，這八個優先領域將構成我們建構新 SABESP 未來的堅實基礎，使我們能夠面對新的挑戰，實現新的效率和永續成長水準。這些優先事項將指導我們的行動並塑造我們的前進道路。

On the next slide, let me highlight some of the initiatives undertaken within our first 40 days. First, we focused on the investment program for 2024. After privatization, the company began transitioning from a public procurement model to a private one, which was accelerated upon our arrival. Today, we have implemented an investment process, which is very well defined, continuous monitoring and a dedicated negotiation team. We have reviewed contracts and the fragmented large projects into smaller packages to attract more suppliers and minimize execution risks.

在下一張投影片中，讓我重點介紹我們在前 40 天內採取的一些措施。首先，我們將重點放在2024年的投資計畫。私有化後，該公司開始從公共採購模式轉向私人採購模式，我們到來後這項轉變加速了。今天，我們已經實施了一個明確的投資流程、持續的監控和專門的談判團隊。我們審查了合同，並將大型項目分解為較小的項目，以吸引更多供應商並最大限度地降低執行風險。

Secondly, we've addressed the gap between regulatory and actual revenue due to discounts for large clients. After an internal review, we decided to terminate approximately 500 contracts to keep discounts within the limits of the new concession contract. And we are negotiating contractual adjustments with the remaining clients in order to meet regulatory parameters.

其次，我們解決了因大客戶折扣而導致監管收入與實際收入之間的差距。經過內部審查後，我們決定終止約 500 份合同，以將折扣保持在新特許權合約的範圍內。我們正在與其餘客戶就合約調整進行談判，以滿足監管參數。

Finally, we have defined the new management team. And based on the priorities of new SABESP, we have redesigned our engagement structure, blending internal talent with market professionals. The new management team is actually outlined in the following slide, as you will see. In the new organizational structure, I oversee 10 Directors. Four of them come from within SABESP and six from the market.

最後，我們確定了新的管理團隊。根據新 SABESP 的優先事項，我們重新設計了我們的參與結構，將內部人才與市場專業人士融合在一起。正如您將看到的，新的管理團隊實際上在下面的幻燈片中進行了概述。在新的組織架構中，我負責監督 10 位董事。其中 4 個來自 SABESP 內部，6 個來自市場。

In addition to these 10 Directors, the internal audit superintendent reports from the administrative perspective to me. But from the functional perspective, to the Board of Directors and Daniel that you met, worked with me in Kraft Heinz in Canada, and I fully trust him, and I'm very happy that he accepted the challenge to join us.

除了這10位董事之外，內部稽核主管從行政角度向我報告。但從職能角度來看，對於你遇到的董事會和丹尼爾，在加拿大卡夫亨氏與我一起工作，我完全信任他，我很高興他接受挑戰加入我們。

Gustavo, who has been leading the procurement and corporate services, will manage over BRL60 billion in investments planned for universalization, and we have worked together at Equatorial. Roberval is another homegrown talent from the operations areas. He is now head of the engineering and innovation department and is responsible for executing the universalization investments.

古斯塔沃一直負責採購和企業服務，他將管理超過 600 億雷亞爾的普遍化投資計劃，我們在赤道合作。羅伯瓦爾是另一位來自營運領域的本土人才。他現在是工程和創新部門的負責人，負責執行通用化投資。

Josue, who's the Director of People and Management, brings his experience in large corporations like Ambev and will assist in managing our goals and incentives and will be the guardian of the new culture. Debora, the Director of Operations and Maintenance, is an internal talent and has become the first woman to hold this position in history. She was also the first female superintendent in the operations area, previously managing two business units.

Josue 是人事和管理總監，他帶來了他在 Ambev 這樣的大公司的經驗，將協助管理我們的目標和激勵措施，並將成為新文化的守護者。維運總監黛博拉是一位內部人才，成為史上第一位擔任此職位的女性。她也是營運領域第一位女性主管，先前管理過兩個業務部門。

Rafael, who is the Director of Projects and New Businesses, has very extensive experience at BNDES and has joined the company around two years ago, where he coordinated various projects related to privatization prior to my arrival. Maria Alicia, who is the Legal Director, she actually started her career at BAT Souza Cruz Group and brings vast experience in regulated sectors.

拉斐爾是專案和新業務總監，在 BNDES 擁有非常豐富的經驗，大約兩年前加入該公司，在我到來之前，他協調了與私有化相關的各種專案。Maria Alicia 是法律總監，她的職業生涯實際上是在 BAT Souza Cruz Group 開始的，並在監管領域擁有豐富的經驗。

And finally, we have Samanta, Director of Institutional Relations and Sustainability and oversees our institutional relationships and sustainability issues. And she has an extensive experience with all our stakeholders, having served as Deputy Secretary of Sanitation and the Secretary of Environment, Infrastructure and Logistics and played a key role in the company's privatization process.

最後，我們有機構關係和永續發展總監 Samanta，負責監督我們的機構關係和永續發展議題。她在與我們所有利益相關者打交道方面擁有豐富的經驗，曾擔任衛生部門副部長和環境、基礎設施和物流部長，並在公司的私有化進程中發揮了關鍵作用。

Additionally, we have finalized the selections of the Directors of Customer and Technology, the Regulatory Director, and they will be formally announced at the end of the year. All with these two appointments, we completed a highly qualified leadership team that is aligned with our objectives.

此外，我們已經敲定了客戶和技術總監、監管總監的人選，並將於今年底正式公佈。透過這兩項任命，我們組建了一支符合我們目標的高素質領導團隊。

In summary, after this first 40 days of adjustments and definitions, we now have a strong and well-prepared team in order to execute the initiatives that were prioritized with focus and determination. Our commitment is pretty clear: we want to advance toward universalization and achieve a new level of efficiency, innovation and sustainability for the new SABESP.

總而言之，經過前 40 天的調整和定義，我們現在擁有一支強大且準備充分的團隊，能夠以專注和決心執行優先的舉措。我們的承諾非常明確：我們希望推動普遍化，並為新的 SABESP 實現新的效率、創新和永續性水準。

Let's now move to the Q&A session. And I would like to thank you for your very kind attention. Thank you.

現在讓我們進入問答環節。我要感謝您的熱情關注。謝謝。

Thank you, Piani. So let us start with the Q&A session, and we do have a few listed here. And if for whatever reason we fail to address your question, please make sure you send it to us by e-mail, and we will address them accordingly.

謝謝你，皮亞尼。讓我們從問答環節開始，這裡列出了一些問題。如果出於某種原因我們未能解決您的問題，請務必透過電子郵件將其發送給我們，我們將相應地解決您的問題。

The first question comes from Guilherme Lima, and he goes, we've seen a couple of news about the beginning of the gap reduction on the commercial programs. Could you please put us up to speed with the progression, how much of the client base has been communicated, how are you assessing the litigation risk, and can we start to envision relevant effects in the last quarter of '24, and can we expect the closure of this gap in '25?

第一個問題來自 Guilherme Lima，他說，我們已經看到了一些關於商業節目差距開始縮小的消息。您能給我們介紹一下進展嗎？縮小？

Guilherme, thank you for your question. This is Daniel. And as we saw on the press, we have notified approximately 500 clients out of those -- well, altogether, 500 to 600, I could say. And before we notified those clients, we basically did a legal analysis with a consultant who we sourced for that. And then we sat down with the regulator and we -- once the regulatory agency endorsed, we are just moving on by following up the contract execution, potential termination. With regards to the timing, we, for a while, have stated that we hope to have this gap bridged by the end of '25. And this is the -- we keep that expectation for the moment.

吉爾赫姆，謝謝你的提問。這是丹尼爾.正如我們在媒體上看到的，我們已經通知了其中大約 500 名客戶——我可以說，總共 500 到 600 名客戶。在我們通知這些客戶之前，我們基本上與為此聘請的顧問進行了法律分析。然後我們與監管機構坐下來，一旦監管機構批准，我們就會繼續跟進合約的執行，以及可能的終止。關於時間安排，我們曾一度表示希望在 25 年底前彌補這一差距。這就是──我們暫時保持這種期望。

Thank you, Daniel. Next question from Maria Carolina Carneiro. I have two questions. One, about the measures to promote efficiency, can you please highlight how is it that the commercial fronts on that renegotiation have contributed to improve the revenue percentage, if the strategy has to be continued?

謝謝你，丹尼爾。下一個問題來自瑪麗亞·卡羅萊納·卡內羅。我有兩個問題。第一，關於提高效率的措施，如果必須繼續執行該策略，您能否強調一下，重新談判的商業方面如何為提高收入百分比做出了貢獻？

And number two, if you could comment on the news about the potential negotiation of discounts that were given for industrial clients and commercial clients, how are you going to go about that number of clients in which this negotiation can indeed happen?

第二，如果您可以評論有關為工業客戶和商業客戶提供折扣的潛在談判的新聞，您將如何處理確實可以進行這種談判的客戶數量？

Well, I think the second question has been addressed, but the first one is still standing. Yes, thank you, Maria Carolina, for the question. And now-- okay, as for your first question goes, we have the PLCDs in three sources. We have the legal entities, natural persons and other agencies. So from this first group, we engaged in important bilateral negotiations. We managed to reduce considerably. And with the firm demand that we just mentioned, we hope that this will be considerably reduced as well.

嗯，我認為第二個問題已經解決了，但第一個問題仍然存在。是的，謝謝瑪麗亞·卡羅萊納提出的問題。現在 - 好吧，至於你的第一個問題，我們有三個來源的 PLCD。我們有法人、自然人和其他機構。因此，從第一組開始，我們就進行了重要的雙邊談判。我們設法大幅減少。鑑於我們剛才提到的堅定需求，我們希望這種情況也能大大減少。

Now, on group 2, we have been moving on with those large fares and for debt negotiation or auctions for debt negotiation. And very soon, we should have a new Director ahead of that department that is going to start the action plan.

現在，在第二組中，我們一直在繼續進行這些大額票價以及債務談判或債務談判拍賣。很快，我們就會有一位新的主管來領導該部門，負責啟動行動計畫。

And number three, the new concession contract, when we look at it from today's eyes, it basically gives us some more leeway space in order to contain potential transfer amounts that might reduce and shrink this last subgroup. Of course, this is an ongoing analysis. We hope to implement that whatever comes as a result of that strategy.

第三，新的特許權合同，當我們從今天的角度來看時，它基本上給了我們更多的迴旋餘地，以包含可能減少和縮小最後一個子組的潛在轉讓金額。當然，這是一個持續的分析。我們希望能夠實施該戰略帶來的任何結果。

Next question comes from Bruno Amorim. Actually, three questions. He says, Bruno Amorim from Goldman Sachs. Question number one, is it possible to make comments on the opportunity to add new cities to the State of Sao Paulo? What is the size of this opportunity and the timing for adding those new municipalities?

下一個問題來自布魯諾·阿莫林。其實就是三個問題。他說，是來自高盛的布魯諾·阿莫林。第一個問題，是否可以對在聖保羅州增加新城市的機會發表評論？這個機會有多大以及增加這些新城市的時機是什麼？

Second question, could you please comment on the discussion status for the potential recognition of the RAB CapEx? And three, what's the appetite of the M&A participation in new auctions outside of Sao Paulo in face of this challenge to execute the current CapEx?

第二個問題，您能否評論一下 RAB 資本支出潛在認可的討論情況？第三，面對執行當前資本支出的挑戰，參與聖保羅以外新拍賣的併購有何興趣？

Thank you, Bruno, for the questions. What I can tell is that we would be very much interested in opportunities in the State of Sao Paulo. Now, the size, of course, will depend on the opportunities. And if we have a good deal on the wholesale, it's up to SABESP. But on our end, at least, we are pretty much interested in embracing all and any opportunities that might come up.

謝謝布魯諾的提問。我可以告訴你的是，我們對聖保羅州的機會非常感興趣。當然，現在的規模將取決於機會。如果我們的批發交易很划算，那就要看 SABESP 了。但至少就我們而言，我們非常有興趣擁抱所有可能出現的機會。

With regards to the delay of the recognition of the base, as managers here at SABESP, we have started these conversations with the regulatory agency. We have no control over the timing, but we have expressed our opinion with regards to this topic, and this discussion is, therefore, underway. This hasn't been shelved. And as soon as we have concrete answers, we will communicate the market.

關於基地認可的延遲，作為 SABESP 的管理者，我們已經開始與監管機構進行對話。我們無法控制時間，但我們已經就這個主題表達了我們的意見，因此這個討論正在進行中。這件事還沒有被擱置。一旦得到具體答案，我們就會與市場溝通。

With regards to outside Sao Paulo, and again, with that challenge you mentioned in mind, well, what I have to say is that we will assess all the opportunities. And on the short term -- the short-term opportunities, they differ considerably from the mid or long term. And if we do consider as a smart move, we will try to pitch this to the Board and the market. But the base case scenario would be for us to proceed with the universalization and the transformation.

關於聖保羅以外的地區，考慮到您提到的挑戰，我不得不說的是，我們將評估所有機會。從短期來看，短期機會與中長期機會有很大不同。如果我們確實認為這是明智之舉，我們將嘗試向董事會和市場推銷這項舉措。但基本情況是我們繼續進行普遍化和轉型。

We have just joined 40 days ago. It's really too short. But the opportunities, they materialize, not necessarily in that window when we can execute them. They have their own maturity. So what we will do is, we remain alert to all opportunities, and we will analyze this risk-return balance. And if it makes sense to us, we will go ahead and tell the market.

我們剛加入 40 天前。實在是太短了。但機會並不一定是在我們可以執行它們的那個視窗中實現的。他們有自己的成熟。所以我們要做的是，我們對所有機會保持警惕，我們會分析這個風險報酬平衡。如果這對我們有意義，我們將繼續告訴市場。

Thank you, Piani. Next question is from Marcelo Sa. I wanted to understand the depreciation. Is this new level recurrent? How is this depreciation lower now? Can we say that the tax base deduction will be lower, and that might mean the payment on the tax income?

謝謝你，皮亞尼。下一個問題來自馬塞洛·薩。我想了解折舊。這個新關卡會常常出現嗎？現在這個折舊率怎麼低了？我們是否可以說，稅基扣除會降低，這可能意味著稅收收入的支付？

Thank you, Marcelo. This is Daniel. And I'll be pretty straightforward. Yes, so this is definitely a recurring thing, and it is a consequence of the extension of the concession contract, and we will cope with all the other contracts with the same period. And this is having an impact on our tax base, so we will pay more income tax. So yes, it does have a fiscal impact.

謝謝你，馬塞洛。這是丹尼爾.我會非常直截了當。是的，所以這肯定是一個經常性的事情，這是特許經營合約延期的結果，我們將處理同期的所有其他合約。這對我們的稅基產生了影響，所以我們將繳納更多的所得稅。所以，是的，它確實會產生財政影響。

Thank you, Daniel. Carolina Carneiro has a follow-up question to us, saying that we mentioned 400 contracts that were terminated with regards to the revenue gap. How much does that represent?

謝謝你，丹尼爾。卡羅萊納·卡內羅（Carolina Carneiro）向我們提出了一個後續問題，她說我們提到了 400 份合約因收入差距而被終止。這代表了多少？

Yes. Additionally to what Daniel mentioned, those contracts that we've communicated the termination, they need the discounts to below the BRL300 million limit that was prescribed by the concession contract. So we are below that.

是的。除了丹尼爾提到的之外，我們已經傳達終止的那些合同，他們需要折扣低於特許合同規定的 3 億雷亞爾限額。所以我們低於這個水平。

So the next question is from Vladimir Pinto. Good morning. I hope the new team manages to deliver the wished results. And in the dividend distribution, are you intending to do any non-cash items that have affected the results, in particular, the BRL8 billion and the financial assets?

下一個問題來自弗拉基米爾·平托。早安.我希望新團隊能夠取得預期的成果。在股利分配中，您是否打算做任何影響績效的非現金項目，特別是80億雷亞爾和金融資產？

Well, thank you, Vlad. We actually -- we see that as profit, right? And for the purposes of income distribution, we will have to take another decision more towards the end of the year, but we see those financial assets as profit.

嗯，謝謝你，弗拉德。實際上，我們將其視為利潤，對嗎？出於收入分配的目的，我們將不得不在年底前做出另一個決定，但我們將這些金融資產視為利潤。

Thank you, Daniel. We have Thiago Bethonico, and he goes, could you please further detail the announcement of this Tuesday that SABESP decided to discontinue the investment forecast for '24 to '28?

謝謝你，丹尼爾。我們有蒂亞戈·貝托尼科 (Thiago Bethonico)，他說，您能否進一步詳細介紹本週二 SABESP 決定中止 24 至 28 年投資預測的公告？

Thank you, Thiago. Thank you for your question. And in reality, the forecasts we had here at SABESP, they were actually somewhat outdated before the privatization. And now, upon our arrival, we are basically reassessing the investments and opportunities. So we decided to remove that guidance because we didn't want to keep a quarterly target to deliver investments.

謝謝你，蒂亞戈。謝謝你的提問。事實上，我們在 SABESP 所做的預測在私有化之前實際上已經有些過時了。現在，在我們抵達後，我們基本上正在重新評估投資和機會。因此，我們決定取消該指導，因為我們不想保留季度目標來實現投資。

As Piani said, our mission here is to deliver the privatization. So we are much more interested in the new factor, whether I did BRL1 billion CapEx or BRL900 million CapEx after a month. So that's the mindset.

正如皮亞尼所說，我們的使命是實現私有化。因此，我們對新因素更感興趣，無論我在一個月後進行了 10 億雷亞爾的資本支出還是 9 億雷亞爾的資本支出。這就是心態。

So the next question comes from Lilyanna Yang. Could you please share with us the analysis of the supply chain and the sector? Will SABESP invest BRL12 billion in the year of '25? And what are the areas and regions of priority for the next 12 months?

那麼下一個問題來自 Lilyanna Yang。您能否給我們分享供應鏈和產業的分析？SABESP 會在 25 年投資 120 億雷亞爾嗎？未來 12 個月的優先領域和地區是什麼？

Thank you, Lilyanna. Well, in the year of '23, it's estimated that SABESP has invested 30% of the CapEx in the sanitation sector. So of course, when we round up the other figures, this will represent much more. So we will need everyone and everything. We don't have a silver bullet for that. And if we can invest, yes, we can. And Equatorial, for instance, invested BRL11.3 billion last year. So yes, it is possible. But we have to tidy up the room first, if you will, and to just do our initial housekeeping here, understanding what was done and just throwing our secret sauce.

謝謝你，莉莉安娜。嗯，在 23 年，據估計 SABESP 已將 30% 的資本支出投資於衛生部門。當然，當我們將其他數字四捨五入時，這將代表更多。所以我們需要所有人和一切。我們對此沒有靈丹妙藥。如果我們可以投資，是的，我們可以。例如，赤道去年投資了 113 億雷亞爾。所以是的，這是可能的。但如果你願意的話，我們必須先收拾房間，然後在這裡做我們最初的內務工作，了解做了什麼，然後扔掉我們的秘密醬汁。

What I can say is that the initial focus on the short run are the works connected to Integra Tiete, the largest works really. And within those works, the sewage treatment expansion plans that are multi-year works. So we would need to start it now because it takes two or three years for them to be finished.

我能說的是，短期內最初關注的是與 Integra Tiete 有關的作品，這確實是最大的作品。在這些工程中，污水處理擴建計劃是一項多年工程。所以我們需要現在就開始，因為它們需要兩三年才能完成。

And one of the actions we have taken was to basically terminate some contracts. Instead of turnkey projects, we decided to go for shorter and smaller contracts in such a way that we would expand our service provision consultants universe if compared to what we would have otherwise. So we are moving forward. We have a pretty clear road map of what are the next steps. And we think that this investment for next year is totally doable.

我們採取的行動之一就是基本上終止一些合約。我們決定採用更短、更小的合同，而不是交鑰匙項目，這樣與其他方式相比，我們將擴大我們的服務提供顧問範圍。所以我們正在前進。我們對接下來的步驟有一個非常清晰的路線圖。我們認為明年的這項投資是完全可行的。

Thank you. Gabriel Francisco. Two questions. Could you please say more about the efficiency journey in the general expenses and service lines? What is the largest gap that you see with regards to private companies? Could you further comment on how you plan to offset the delay on the works of the year? And congratulations.

謝謝。加布里埃爾·弗朗西斯科.兩個問題。能否詳細介紹一般費用和服務項目的效率之旅？您認為私人企業最大的差距是什麼？您能否進一步評論一下您計劃如何彌補今年作品的延誤？恭喜你。

Thank you, Gabriel. This is Daniel. So let us start by the first one. So we've just arrived, right, 40-something days, and we are still putting together our budget for the next year. It's going to be a great opportunity for us to understand and challenge a couple of gaps, and we will basically try to see how much we can bridge them. And then I'm sure we'll have many different opportunities.

謝謝你，加布里埃爾。這是丹尼爾.那麼讓我們從第一個開始。我們剛剛到達，對，40 多天了，我們仍在製定明年的預算。這對我們來說將是一個很好的機會來理解和挑戰一些差距，我們基本上會嘗試看看我們能在多大程度上彌補這些差距。然後我確信我們會有很多不同的機會。

And when you compare this to other private companies and we run a comparison with the local market, and given our scale and size, we compare abroad, and we envision some other opportunities in the service, for instance. Let me give you a simple example. The company needed to run contests, public contests, and whenever that wouldn't happen, it would source services. So now, maybe we want to reduce the overprice that we'd be buying -- we'd be paying as a margin to a third party.

當你將其與其他私人公司進行比較時，我們會與當地市場進行比較，考慮到我們的規模和規模，我們會與國外進行比較，例如，我們設想了該服務中的一些其他機會。讓我給你舉一個簡單的例子。該公司需要舉辦競賽、公開競賽，每當這種情況無法發生時，它就會尋求服務。所以現在，也許我們想降低我們購買的價格過高的價格——我們將向第三方支付保證金。

So we have many opportunities when we analyze the expenses breakdown. We basically have personnel and services, as I said, and electric energy. I actually mentioned this mixed sourcing environment, free against regulated. So we will just continue with that.

所以我們在分析費用明細時有很多機會。正如我所說，我們基本上有人員和服務，還有電力。我實際上提到了這種混合採購環境，不受監管。所以我們將繼續這樣做。

Now, with regards to the delays on the construction works, let me tell you what happened first. When we arrived, we had the 70-day period -- 70-something days that we -- where we experienced a transition period. And that -- obviously, that period was neither comfortable to those who were here before because they didn't know whether they were going to stay, and those of us who were coming and just getting on board, we were uncertain whether we could approve it or not. So what we are doing is, we are speeding up some of those hirings and sourcing processes.

現在，關於工程延誤的問題，我先告訴大家發生了什麼事。當我們到達時，我們有 70 天的時間——70 多天——我們經歷了一個過渡期。顯然，那個時期對於那些以前來過這裡的人來說並不舒服，因為他們不知道自己是否會留下來，而我們這些即將到來並剛剛上船的人，我們不確定我們是否可以批准無論是否。所以我們正在做的是，我們正在加快一些招募和採購流程。

And as Piani mentioned and I myself, I said something about this, we are basically changing the way we source. It used to be a bidding system. It's no longer like that. And we tried to add as much as we could to the services and everything that was involved with that.

正如皮亞尼和我自己所提到的，我對此說過一些話，我們基本上正在改變我們的採購方式。它曾經是一個招標系統。現在不再是這樣了。我們嘗試盡可能添加服務以及與之相關的所有內容。

Now, after the privatization, the company is starting to deliver projects ahead of the deadline. We started to fragment that into smaller packages and looking at things like direct procurement of materials. And this is related to Lilyanna's question that Piani has just answered. And of us, for instance, buying and doing our procurement in aggregated manner, we will definitely benefit from that, and to have more people benefiting and providing services. What we want is to have this ecosystem, a suppliers' ecosystem, which is ever-expanding, and we hope to be able to offset this delay. And when we look at this, our hiring figures, we are on the way to compensating that.

現在，私有化後，該公司開始提前交付專案。我們開始將其分成更小的包裝，並考慮直接採購材料等問題。這和Piani剛才回答的Lilyanna的問題有關。例如我們，聚合採購、聚合採購，一定會從中受益，讓更多的人受益、提供服務。我們想要的是擁有這個生態系統，一個供應商的生態系統，它是不斷擴大的，我們希望能夠抵消這個延遲。當我們看到我們的招募數據時，我們正在努力彌補這一點。

We have another question here about the income taxes. Oh, sorry about that. Thank you.

我們還有一個關於所得稅的問題。哦，對此感到抱歉。謝謝。

No cash effects, Gabriel. Although this is a great question, neither on our assets nor on the liability, this is going to be consumed as time elapses.

沒有現金效應，加布里埃爾。儘管這是一個很大的問題，無論是對於我們的資產還是對於負債，這都會隨著時間的流逝而被消耗。

Felipe Andre. We have addressed this, but I will still read it. Could you say something about the gain expectations on the OpEx efficiency after privatization and the detailed headcount, third parties, materials, treatment materials and electric energy?

費利佩·安德烈.我們已經解決了這個問題，但我仍然會閱讀它。您能否談談私有化後OpEx效率的增益預期以及詳細的人員、第三方、材料、處理材料和電能？

Yes. So let me just explore a couple of different avenues that I haven't done before, and we have now a reference shareholder that knows a lot about that and is helping us on the strategy. With regards to treatment materials, we are resorting to a management consulting to help us with the PMI, and we have started to map our supply chain, not -- well, it could be as simple as just renegotiating prices or extending the contract time. But in a highly regulated environment, it would still be very tough.

是的。因此，讓我探索一些我以前從未做過的不同途徑，我們現在有了一位參考股東，他對此非常了解，並且正在幫助我們制定策略。關於處理材料，我們正在尋求管理諮詢來幫助我們制定 PMI，並且我們已經開始繪製我們的供應鏈，而不是——嗯，它可能只是重新談判價格或延長合約時間那麼簡單。但在高度監管的環境下，這仍然會非常艱難。

So those are things and options that we might try to analyze. And we are analyzing logistics and other elements like that. So -- and sometimes this supplier and the vendor themselves, they have a location which is closer than ours. So we are -- obviously, we are not just stopping at this first tier. We are going forward a second and a third tier if we notice that there is important value to be captured there.

因此，這些是我們可能會嘗試分析的事情和選項。我們正在分析物流和其他類似要素。因此，有時該供應商和供應商本身的位置比我們更近。所以我們——顯然，我們不只停留在第一層。如果我們發現那裡有重要的價值，我們就會前進到第二層和第三層。

Well, the next question is from Fernanda. And the construction -- before the acknowledgment of Q3 '24 of the financial assets in BRL8.8 billion, the construction revenues were together with construction costs. And now after this recognition, what is the expectation?

好吧，下一個問題來自費爾南達。而建築－在 24 年第三季確認 88 億雷亞爾的金融資產之前，建築收入與建築成本一起計算。現在在這種認識之後，期望是什麼？

Well, the margin was 4.3%, and we always assess that. This is an ongoing discussion with the auditors. We didn't see anything different from those 2.3%. And I'm talking about specifically the construction revenue sector.

嗯，利潤率為 4.3%，我們總是評估這一點。這是與審計師的持續討論。我們沒有看到與那 2.3% 有任何不同。我特別談論的是建築收入部門。

And Guilherme Lima. Could you please comment on the payment of dividends? Have you ever discussed with the state administration about a payout alteration strategy?

還有吉列爾梅·利馬。您能否評論一下股息支付情況？您是否曾與國家行政部門討論過支付變更策略？

No, we haven't. No, the rules are very clear, and we did not engage in any conversation in that direction.

不，我們沒有。不，規則非常明確，我們沒有進行任何朝這個方向的對話。

Arthur Pereira. About the dividends policy, I believe that this policy can be revised depending on the anticipation of the deliverables and the universalization method -- sorry, targets?

阿瑟·佩雷拉。關於股息政策，我認為可以根據可交付成果的預期和普遍化方法來修改該政策 - 對不起，目標？

Well, again, we've reached the end of this initial 40 days, and we have bigger fish to fry, I should say, and there are no ongoing conversations in that sense.

好吧，再說一次，我們最初的 40 天已經結束，我應該說，我們還有更大的魚要煎，而且在這個意義上沒有正在進行的對話。

We have two other questions, one from Felipe in the audience. What is it that the new management managed to identify in terms of opportunities and gaining additional value through associated revenues?

我們還有另外兩個問題，其中一個是觀眾中的費利佩提出的。新管理層成功地發現了哪些機會並透過相關收入獲得了額外價值？

Well, we've barely started on this journey. Very little time has elapsed since we took over control, right? So there are many initiatives that are underway or that at least have been -- if not implemented, they have been idealized. And so we are basically investing on the planning of '24 -- sorry, in the planning of '25 more than in gains of the second half. And so that's the segment of complementary and ancillary revenues that are part. So we are addressing this, but I have no comments for the moment, and we will certainly be able to give more color in the next call.

好吧，我們才剛開始這段旅程。自從我們接管控制權以來，時間已經很短了，對吧？因此，有許多舉措正在進行中，或至少已經實施了——即使沒有實施，它們也已經被理想化了。因此，我們基本上對「24」規劃的投資——抱歉，對「25」規劃的投資比下半年的收益還要多。這就是補充和輔助收入的一部分。因此，我們正在解決這個問題，但目前我沒有任何評論，我們肯定能夠在下次電話會議中提供更多資訊。

Juliana asks two things. How is the -- are you having any difficulties in implementing the new culture? And the other question is, can you see the possibility of gains coming from other assets such as selling property?

朱莉安娜問了兩件事。您在實施新文化方面有什麼困難嗎？另一個問題是，你能看到其他資產（例如出售房產）的收益的可能性嗎？

You see, we were very warmly welcomed, and the interactions are great. We had the chance to talk to a pretty broad -- and of course, it's natural for people to be a bit uncertain, and it's a transition phase. We understand we are pretty much empathic towards the anxiety of some of the employees. Well, so far, what I can say is that the privatization model that was adopted allowed all the employees to get to know the model and the purpose before deciding on -- so it was a mutual, let's say, deadline for us to get to know one another. Now, on the net side, we understand people get anxious. I have nothing to complain about. And it's definitely much better than the expectation.

你看，我們受到了非常熱烈的歡迎，互動也很棒。我們有機會與相當廣泛的人交談——當然，人們有點不確定是很自然的，這是一個過渡階段。我們知道我們對某些員工的焦慮感同身受。嗯，到目前為止，我能說的是，採用的私有化模式讓所有員工在做出決定之前都了解該模式和目的- 所以這是一個共同的最後期限，可以說是我們達成目標的最後期限。現在，在網路方面，我們理解人們會感到焦慮。我沒有什麼好抱怨的。而且絕對比預想的好很多。

Now, vis-a-vis to the estate and properties, we are running an assessment on the non-operationals. And of course, there are contract rules to be observed in partitioning those gains in case we sell those assets. And this is part of our initiatives. And if we have something to release to free capital from assets that are not relevant or useful, we might do it. So we had one perspective when abroad, but now we are on the way to validating this before putting the plan into action.

現在，對於不動產和財產，我們正在對非經營性資產進行評估。當然，如果我們出售這些資產，在分配這些收益時需要遵守合約規則。這是我們舉措的一部分。如果我們有一些東西可以釋放，以將資本從不相關或無用的資產中釋放出來，我們可能會這樣做。因此，我們在國外時有一個觀點，但現在我們正在驗證這一觀點，然後再將計劃付諸實施。

Another question from Marcelo Gonzalez, and he says, about the impact of this 4% negative tariff review, is this review relative to the whole period? Or should this impact increase in the fourth quarter?

馬塞洛·岡薩雷斯（Marcelo Gonzalez）提出了另一個問題，他說，關於這次 4% 負面關稅審查的影響，這次審查是相對於整個時期而言的嗎？或者這種影響在第四季會增加嗎？

Yes. Actually, in our ITR, we try to be as clear and transparent as possible because this is for everybody, for the shareholders to be able to clearly understand that. So in order for us to calculate this FAUSP, one step behind. And this is the practiced tariff minus the balance tariff. So we got what was publicized, which was 4.22%. And when the privatization happened, we had a 1% tariff reduction. So we used 3.22% for this 3 quarter, and this figure will remain the same for Q4 until at least we have a more clear indication, and this is actually new to them. And occasionally, any tariff readjustments that will take place maybe in the future. So for the time being, 3.22%.

是的。實際上，在我們的 ITR 中，我們盡量做到清晰透明，因為這是為了每個人，為了股東能夠清楚地理解這一點。所以為了讓我們計算這個FAUSP，落後了一步。這是實際關稅減去餘額關稅。所以我們得到了公佈的數據，即 4.22%。當私有化發生時，我們的關稅降低了 1%。因此，我們在第三季度使用了 3.22%，第四季度這個數字將保持不變，直到至少我們有更明確的指示，這對他們來說實際上是新的。有時，未來可能會發生任何關稅調整。所以暫時是3.22%。

Thank you, Daniel. And with that, we have reached the end of our session. It's the last question. And I would like to give the floor to Piani for the final remarks.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。至此，我們的會議就結束了。這是最後一個問題。最後我想請皮亞尼發言。

So dear friends, let me first thank you for your participation, for your questions. We've taken the position only a few days ago, and obviously, it's our obligation to universalize, and more than that, to transform this to a different level. And this journey is just beginning, and we are going to appropriate what was being done before and to speed up in order for us to better serve the population of Sao Paulo and to generate sustainable value to shareholders.

親愛的朋友們，首先感謝你們的參與和提問。我們幾天前才採取這一立場，顯然，我們有義務實現普遍化，更重要的是，將其轉變到不同的水平。這趟旅程才剛開始，我們將利用之前所做的事情並加快步伐，以便更好地服務聖保羅人民並為股東創造可持續的價值。

So thank you for your trust and support and confidence. And let us tell you that our team is deeply committed to making a difference. And I count on your support during the coming quarters because we still have a lot to deliver. Thank you and see you in our next earnings release call.

因此，感謝您的信任、支持和信心。讓我們告訴您，我們的團隊堅定地致力於做出改變。我期待您在未來幾季的支持，因為我們還有很多工作要做。謝謝您，我們下次財報電話會議再見。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本筆錄中的英語陳述是由現場通話中的口譯員說出的。口譯員由贊助本次活動的公司提供。