Banco Santander SA (SAN) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to third quarter 2025 results presentation. For the call today we will be joined by Hector Grisi, our Group CEO; and Jose Garcia Cantera, our CFO. Hector, over to you.

早安，歡迎參加2025年第三季業績發表會。今天參加電話會議的有集團執行長 Hector Grisi 和財務長 Jose Garcia Cantera。赫克托，該你了。

Thanks, Raul. Good morning and everyone, and thank you for joining Santander Results presentation. We will follow the usual structure first, I will go over our results with a special focus on the performance of our global businesses. Then Jose, our CFO will then provide a detailed view of the financials and then I will wrap up with some final remarks before we open for Q&A.

謝謝你，勞爾。各位早安，感謝各位參加桑坦德銀行業績發表會。首先，我們將按照慣例，我將回顧我們的業績，重點介紹我們全球業務的表現。接下來，我們的財務長 Jose 將詳細介紹財務狀況，之後我將作總結發言，然後進入問答環節。

Before we begin, a quick note that all figures in the presentation continue to include Poland until the disposal is completed. Q3 was another record quarter reflecting the strength of our strategy and the resilience of our business model in a more demanding environment.

在開始之前，需要快速說明的是，在資料處理完成之前，簡報中的所有資料都將繼續包含波蘭的資料。第三季再次創下紀錄，反映出我們策略的實力和商業模式在更具挑戰性的環境中的韌性。

Our quarterly profit hit a new record at EUR3.5 billion, making nine months '25, the best month period ever driven by strong revenue growth across the global businesses and our solid customer base which increased by EUR7 million year-on-year to EUR178 million as we enhance customer experience by leveraging our global platforms. We achieve this while we continue to invest for the future through one transformation making excellent progress towards a simpler and more integrated model. This has enabled further efficiency gains and a 70 basis points increase to a RoTE to 16.1%.

我們的季度利潤創下新紀錄，達到 35 億歐元，使得 2025 年前九個月成為有史以來最好的月份，這得益於全球業務的強勁收入增長以及我們穩固的客戶基礎，客戶基礎同比增長 700 萬歐元，達到 1.78 億歐元，因為我們通過利用我們的全球平台來提升客戶體驗。我們一邊實現這一目標，一邊繼續為未來投資，透過一次轉型，朝著更簡單、更一體化的模式取得了卓越的進展。這使得效率進一步提高，股本回報率 (RoTE) 提高了 70 個基點，達到 16.1%。

Our balance sheet remains also solid with a strong capital ratio which ended the quarter with an all-time high of 13.1% and a robust credit quality. All of these drove a strong shareholder value creation with enough plus cash dividend per share growing 15% despite some currency headwinds.

我們的資產負債表依然穩健，資本充足率強勁，本季末達到歷史新高 13.1%，信貸品質良好。所有這些因素都推動了股東價值的強勁成長，每股現金股利成長了 15%，儘管受到一些匯率不利因素的影響。

We are approaching the end of our '23, '25 strategic plan well on track to beat our targets. Thanks to our profitability and our disciplined capital allocation, which is further improving profitability. Remember that earlier this year we raised our RoTE target to around 16.5% post AT1 equivalent to above 17% pre-AT1 from our original investor the target range of 15% to 17% at the same time we're already operating with a CET1 ratio above 13%, clearly exceeding our original post basal three target of above 12% with 88% of RWA's generating returns above our cost of equity.

我們的 2023 年和 2025 年策略計畫即將結束，目前進展順利，並有望超額完成目標。由於我們獲利能力強，且資本配置嚴格，獲利能力進一步提高。請記住，今年早些時候，我們將 AT1 後的 RoTE 目標提高到約 16.5%，相當於 AT1 前超過 17% 的目標值，而我們最初的投資者給出的目標範圍是 15% 到 17%。同時，我們的 CET1 比率已經超過 13%，明顯超過了我們最初設定的三年基準調整後超過 12% 的目標值，並且 88% 的風險加權資產 (RWA) 產生的收益高於我們的權益成本。

Finally, after our latest inorganic transactions, we decided to accelerate the execution of our EUR10 billion share buybacks and upgrade our target so we announced that we expect to distribute at least EUR10 billion to our shareholders through share buybacks for '25, '26 subject to regulatory approvals.

最後，在我們完成最新的非有機交易後，我們決定加快執行 100 億歐元的股票回購計劃，並提高我們的目標，因此我們宣布，我們預計將在 2025 年和 2026 年透過股票回購向股東分配至少 100 億歐元，但需獲得監管部門的批准。

Let's go now into our income statement. Our P&L remained very solid with profit growing double digs year on year once again reflecting the strength and diversification of our model. We deliver strong top-line growth with revenue of 4% in cost and euros supported by NII which increased 2% but specially by a new record quarterly fees, up 8% supported by significant consumer growth and the network benefits that we are capturing through our global businesses.

現在我們來看損益表。我們的損益表依然非常穩健，利潤年增兩倍，再次體現了我們模式的實力和多元化。我們實現了強勁的營收成長，成本和歐元收入成長了 4%，這主要得益於淨投資收入成長了 2%，尤其是季度費用創下新紀錄，成長了 8%，這得益於消費者的顯著成長以及我們透過全球業務獲得的網路收益。

At the same time expenses grew below revenue down 1% in euros in line with our target, showing the positive effects from our transformation. This performance translated into solid growth in net operating income again demonstrating the sustainability of our results.

同時，支出成長低於收入，歐元下降 1%，符合我們的目標，這表明我們的轉型產生了積極影響。這項業績轉化為淨營業收入的穩健成長，再次證明了我們業績的可持續性。

Our prudent approach to risk is also evident in our robust credit quality trends with a cost of risk that is consistent improving year on year. Overall, as we have shown over time our results are sustainable and less volatile than peers even in a more challenging environment.

我們審慎的風險管控方式也反映在我們穩健的信貸品質趨勢上，風險成本逐年持續改善。總的來說，正如我們隨著時間的推移所證明的那樣，即使在更具挑戰性的環境中，我們的業績也具有可持續性，波動性也低於同行。

We are ahead of our plan executing our transformation, boosting our operational leverage and structurally improving both revenue and cost. Simplification, automation, and active spread management have already delivered 259 basis points of efficiencies.

我們的轉型計劃進展順利，正在提升營運效率，並從結構上改善收入和降低成本。簡化、自動化和主動價差管理已經帶來了 259 個基點的效率提升。

Our global businesses added 101 basis points and our in-house and global tech capabilities another 88 basis points exceeding the level expected by the end of '25, and there is still more to come. We see further upside which they're focused on rolling out common platforms across retail and consumer while also capturing additional efficiencies from world, CIB and payments by leveraging our global network.

我們的全球業務成長了 101 個基點，我們的內部和全球技術能力又成長了 88 個基點，超過了 2025 年底的預期水平，而且還有更多成長空間。我們看到了更大的發展空間，他們專注於在零售和消費領域推出通用平台，同時利用我們的全球網絡，從全球、企業及投資銀行和支付領域獲得額外的效率。

And all this is something that is entirely under our control. All our global businesses delivered strong profit growth while we improved the group's profitability. Customer activity and diversification continue to drive revenue growth in a less favorable interest rate environment or CIB wealth and payments businesses which are more fee driven are seeing increased revenue with fees of 7%, 19%, and 16% respectively.

而這一切都完全在我們的掌控之中。我們所有全球業務都實現了強勁的利潤成長，同時我們也提高了集團的獲利能力。在利率環境不太有利的情況下，客戶活躍度和多元化經營繼續推動收入成長；而以手續費為主導的 CIB 財富管理和支付業務的收入分別增長了 7%、19% 和 16%。

At the same time some of our franchises and emerging markets perform better with lower rates. Our consumer business is a great example with NII up 6% year-on-year. In addition, our customer focused on solid track record in active balance sheet management explained the resilient NII performance in retail, which excluding Argentina grew 1% year-on-year.

同時，我們的一些特許經營店和新興市場在較低的利率下表現更好。我們的消費業務就是一個很好的例子，淨利息收入年增 6%。此外，我們的客戶專注於積極的資產負債表管理方面的良好業績記錄，這解釋了零售業穩健的淨利息收入表現，除阿根廷外，零售業淨利息收入同比增長 1%。

At the same time we're extracting the potential from our scale. Scale gives us efficiency and also the flexibility to allocate capital quickly, something very few others can replicate combined with our strict capital discipline and focus on profitability. This is driving higher RoTE, which most of our businesses already above the targets we set for '25. It is this unique combination of customer focus, a scale and diversification that enables us to deliver strong and recurring results putting us in an excellent position to navigate the challenges ahead.

同時，我們也在充分發揮自身規模的潛力。規模賦予我們效率，也賦予我們快速分配資本的靈活性，這是很少有其他公司能夠做到的，再加上我們嚴格的資本紀律和對獲利能力的關注。這推動了更高的資本回報率，我們大多數業務的資本回報率已經超過了我們為 2025 年設定的目標。正是這種以客戶為中心、規模和多元化的獨特組合，使我們能夠取得強勁且持續的業績，使我們處於應對未來挑戰的絕佳位置。

In retail we are transforming the way we operate to become a digital bank with branches combining cutting edge technology with expertise and proximity of our teams. We continue to digitalize and enhance customer journeys driving double-digit growth in digital sales. A key milestone was the launch of the new app in Brazil. That introduces conversational capabilities that we are now preparing is rolled out across more countries. In cost we're making the most of AI to speed up simplification and automation, which is reducing manual activities and allowing teams to focus more on customer interactions and value-added activities.

在零售領域，我們正在改變營運方式，成為數位銀行，其分行將尖端技術與我們團隊的專業知識和近距離服務相結合。我們不斷推動數位轉型，優化客戶體驗，推動數位銷售額實現兩位數成長。一個重要的里程碑是新應用程式在巴西的發布。這將引入對話功能，我們目前正在準備將其推廣到更多國家。在成本方面，我們充分利用人工智慧來加快簡化和自動化進程，從而減少人工活動，使團隊更專注於客戶互動和增值活動。

As a result, dedication of teams to non-commercial activities has dropped by 17% during the last 12 months. We are progressing in the roll out of our global platform gravity. Our back end technology is fully implemented in Spain and Chile, and we expect to deploy it in Mexico in Q4.

因此，在過去 12 個月裡，團隊對非商業活動的投入下降了 17%。我們的全球平台 Gravity 的推廣工作正在穩步推進。我們的後端技術已在西班牙和智利全面實施，我們預計將於第四季度在墨西哥部署。

Retail profit grow high single-digit year on year driven by sound revenue performances across most countries. Cost declined in real terms and credit quality remains solid. In a more demanding environment NII grew year-on-year, excluding Argentina, reflecting our focus on profitability and the discipline margin management, and fees rose 5%, supported by higher customer activity, our ongoing digitalization, and improved customer journeys.

受大多數國家良好的營收表現推動，零售利潤較去年同期成長接近兩位數。實際成本下降，信貸品質依然穩健。在競爭日益激烈的市場環境下，除阿根廷外，淨利息收入同比增長，這反映了我們對盈利能力的關注和嚴格的利潤率管理；費用增長了 5%，這得益於更高的客戶活躍度、我們持續的數位轉型以及客戶體驗的改善。

We will keep scaling our transformation to boost efficiency and contribute to group's growth. By improving customer experience and simplifying operations, we expect to continue growing our customer base while reducing cost in euros.

我們將持續擴大轉型規模，以提高效率並為集團發展做出貢獻。透過改善客戶體驗和簡化運營，我們期望在降低歐元成本的同時，繼續擴大客戶群。

In consumer we continue to advance in our priority to become the preferred choice for our partners and customers by delivering the best solutions and strengthening our cost competitive advantage across our footprint. Deploying global platforms is key to scale our business and to reduce cost to serve.

在消費者領域，我們將繼續努力，透過提供最佳解決方案和加強我們在業務範圍內的成本競爭優勢，成為合作夥伴和客戶的首選。部署全球平台是擴大業務規模和降低服務成本的關鍵。

We recently announced the integration of Santander Consumer Finance an Openbank in Europe, a natural step that simplifies our business, reduce cost and improve our product offering. We keep enhancing our value proposition and Openbank is again a great example.

我們最近宣布整合了歐洲的開放銀行—桑坦德消費金融公司，這是一個自然而然的步驟，可以簡化我們的業務，降低成本，並改善我們的產品供應。我們不斷提升自身價值主張，Openbank 就是一個很好的例子。

In Germany it now offers a new AI powered investment broker in the US and Mexico. Openbank has attracted EUR6.2 billion in deposits as part of our broader deposit gathering strategy. We continue to expand and consolidate partnerships offering global best in class solutions with top OEMs.

目前，該公司在德國為美國和墨西哥提供由人工智慧驅動的新型投資經紀服務。作為我們更廣泛的存款募集策略的一部分，Openbank 已吸引了 62 億歐元的存款。我們不斷拓展和鞏固合作關係，與全球頂尖的原始設備製造商 (OEM) 提供一流的解決方案。

Zinia continued to grow, reaching record volumes during Amazon Prime days and introducing installment payments for Amazon customers in Spain. Profit grew 6% year-on-year in a challenging context of weaker card registrations in Europe driven by NII growth and solid cost of risk performance, especially in the US.

Zinia持續成長，在亞馬遜Prime會員日期間銷售創下紀錄，並在西班牙為亞馬遜客戶推出了分期付款服務。在歐洲信用卡註冊量疲軟的嚴峻情況下，得益於淨利息收入成長和穩健的風險成本表現（尤其是在美國），利潤同比增長了 6%。

We continue to prioritize profitability over volumes, lower funding cost and accelerating transformation while actively managing capital to maximize returns. We expect consumer to be one of the drivers of the group's profit supported by NII growth as the business benefits from lower rates and progresses in our strategy to lower funding cost. Solid fee income performance as insurance penetration improves and further cost efficiencies as we accelerate our transformation.

我們繼續優先考慮獲利能力而非銷量，降低融資成本，加快轉型，同時積極管理資本以實現收益最大化。我們預計消費者將成為集團利潤成長的驅動力之一，淨利息收入成長也將為此提供支持，因為業務受益於較低的利率，並且我們在降低融資成本的策略方面取得了進展。隨著保險滲透率的提高，手續費收入表現穩健；隨著我們加速轉型，成本效益進一步提高。

In CIB we are building a world class business to better serve our corporate and institutional clients across our footprint while maintaining our low risk profile. Number one, we continue to deepen our client relationships and strengthen our position in our core markets, leveraging our centers of expertise and expanded coverage. This is translating into market share gains in the US as we achieve greater relevance in the investment banking space.

在企業及投資銀行部，我們正在打造世界一流的業務，以便更好地服務於我們業務覆蓋範圍內的企業和機構客戶，同時保持我們的低風險狀況。第一，我們將繼續深化與客戶的關係，鞏固我們在核心市場的地位，充分利用我們的專業中心和擴大的覆蓋範圍。隨著我們在投資銀行領域的影響力不斷增強，這轉化為我們在美國市場份額的成長。

Number two, our enhanced capabilities are enabling us for significant opportunities across CIB. Improving our cross business value proposition and driving solid growth in our institutional franchise in global markets for revenue rose 27% year-on-year. Even in a more challenging environment, CIB keeps on delivering solid results with profit up 10% year-on-year supported by solid free growth across business lines and exceptional performance of global markets early in the year.

第二，我們增強的能力為我們在企業及投資銀行領域帶來了重大機會。我們提升了跨業務價值主張，並推動了我們在全球市場機構特許經營業務的穩健成長，營收年增 27%。即使在更具挑戰性的環境下，CIB 依然保持穩健的業績，利潤同比增長 10%，這得益於各業務線的穩健自由增長以及年初全球市場的出色表現。

All of this while we maintain one of the best efficiency ratios in the sector and a RoTE of around 20% reflecting a strict focus on profitability and capital discipline. We will build on the capabilities developed in recent years to drive revenue growth in CIB across the group driven by stronger connectivity across countries, products, and businesses.

同時，我們保持著業界最佳效率比率之一，股本回報率約為 20%，這反映了我們對獲利能力和資本紀律的嚴格關注。我們將鞏固近年來發展的能力，透過加強國家、產品和業務之間的聯繫，推動集團企業及投資銀行業務的收入成長。

In wealth we are building the best wealth and insurance manager in Europe and the Americas. Number one, in private banking we remain focused on expanding our fee businesses and consolidating our global position through value-added solutions.

在財富管理領域，我們正在打造歐洲和美洲最好的財富和保險管理公司。第一，在私人銀行業務方面，我們將繼續專注於拓展收費業務，並透過加值解決方案鞏固我們的全球地位。

We continue developing our new global family office service which after just three months of activity is proving an advisory services to our first clients in Spain who represent the total wealth of more than EUR500 million.

我們持續發展全新的全球家族辦公室服務，經過短短三個月的運營，已為我們在西班牙的首批客戶提供諮詢服務，這些客戶的總財富超過 5 億歐元。

Number two, in asset management, we keep reinforcing distribution and investment capabilities in alternatives and streamlining our liquid product platform. Number three, in insurance we are focused in two new verticals life and pensions with new products for senior customers in Brazil and annuities from private banking and a clients in Spain. And PNC where we expanded our value offering to SMEs with new protection business products in collaborations with Getnet.

第二，在資產管理方面，我們不斷加強另類投資的分銷和投資能力，並簡化我們的流動性產品平台。第三，在保險領域，我們專注於兩個新的垂直領域：人壽保險和退休金，為巴西的老年客戶提供新產品，以及為西班牙的私人銀行客戶提供年金。在 PNC，我們與 Getnet 合作，透過新的保障業務產品，擴大了我們為中小企業提供的價值服務。

Number four, collaboration with other businesses is a major growth driver for wealth. Collaboration revenues have been a strong growth lever with PB and CIB working hand in hand from tailored capital market structures for ultra-high network individuals to new joint opportunities.

第四，與其他企業合作是財富成長的主要驅動力。合作收入一直是強勁的成長槓桿，PB 和 CIB 攜手合作，從為超高人脈人士量身定制的資本市場結構到新的聯合機會。

In summary, all of this is supporting strong growth and high profitability levels. Profit rose 21% of the back of strong commercial activity and double-digit fee growth across the three businesses. Efficiency improved 1.3 percentage points year-on-year, and RoTE is close to 70% confirming wealth position as one of the most efficient and profitable businesses in the group.

總而言之，所有這些因素都支撐著強勁的成長和高獲利水準。由於強勁的商業活動和三大業務板塊兩位數的費用增長，利潤增長了 21%。效率年增了 1.3 個百分點，股東權益回報率接近 70%，鞏固了財富作為集團內效率最高、盈利能力最強的企業之一的地位。

Finally, payments where we hold the unique positions on both sides of the value chain. In merchant acquiring we're expanding a global platform with a single API to serve all our customers across our footprint and is now live across our five countries in Latin America reinforcing Getnets positioning in the region.

最後，在支付領域，我們在價值鏈的兩端都佔據著獨特的地位。在商家收單方面，我們正在擴展一個全球平台，該平台具有單一 API，可為我們業務範圍內的所有客戶提供服務，目前已在我們拉丁美洲的五個國家/地區上線，從而鞏固了 Getnet 在該地區的地位。

PagoNxt payments is leveraging the best proprietary technology to deliver account to account processing FXs, fraud detection and other value-added services. Volumes processes by our payments off were more than 5 times higher than last year.

PagoNxt 支付利用其最優秀的專有技術，提供帳戶到帳戶的外匯處理、詐欺偵測和其他增值服務。我們的付款處理量比去年高出 5 倍以上。

In Cards where we are amongst the largest issuers globally with 107 million active cards, we continue to expand the business and deliver best in class products. As part of our debit to credit strategy to promote the benefits of using credit cards this quarter we launch Pay Smarter in five other countries. We also kept strengthening the integration between cards and merchant solutions expanding our bundling proposition with Getnet in Brazil, which now joins Spain, Chile, Portugal, and Argentina.

在信用卡領域，我們是全球最大的發卡機構之一，擁有 1.07 億張活躍卡，我們將繼續拓展業務，並提供一流的產品。作為我們本季推廣信用卡使用優勢的金融卡轉信用卡策略的一部分，我們將在其他五個國家推出「智慧支付」服務。我們也不斷加強卡片與商家解決方案之間的整合，擴大了我們在巴西與 Getnet 的捆綁銷售方案，現在巴西加入了西班牙、智利、葡萄牙和阿根廷的行列。

Payments delivered strong quarter resulting in double-digit revenue increase year-on-year both in cards and PagoNxt with control cost driving profit growth for more than 60% and improving PagoNxt EBITDA margin to 32% already above our 25% invest a day target with Getnet being one of the best among peers.

支付業務本季表現強勁，信用卡和 PagoNxt 的收入均同比增長兩位數，成本控制推動利潤增長超過 60%，PagoNxt 的 EBITDA 利潤率提高到 32%，已經超過我們每天 25% 的投資目標，Getnet 是同行中表現最好的公司之一。

Our strong operational and financial performance is driving higher profitability and double-digit value creation for the 10th consecutive quarter. Post AT1 RoTE reached 16.1% of nearly 1 percentage point year-on-year reflecting our disciplined capital allocation strategy.

我們強勁的營運和財務業績推動了更高的獲利能力，並連續第十個季度實現了兩位數的價值成長。AT1 之後的 RoTE 達到 16.1%，較去年同期成長近 1 個百分點，反映了我們嚴謹的資本配置策略。

Earnings per share rose 16% supported by solid profit generation and fewer shares following buybacks as a result, TNAV plus cash dividend per share increased 15%. We maintain our upgraded target to distribute at least EUR10 billion to our own shareholders through share buybacks for '25 and '26 subject to regulatory approvals.

每股收益成長 16%，這得益於穩健的利潤增長和回購後股份數量的減少，因此，每股總資產價值加上現金股息增長了 15%。我們維持先前提高的目標，在獲得監管部門批准後，透過股票回購在 2025 年和 2026 年向我們自己的股東分配至少 100 億歐元。

Since '21 and including the program that is under way, we will have repurchased more than 50% of our outstanding shares, providing a return on investment of approximately 20% to our shareholders.

自 2021 年以來，包括目前正在進行的計劃在內，我們將回購超過 50% 的流通股，為股東帶來約 20% 的投資回報。

I will leave you now with Jose, who will go into our financial performance in more detail.

現在我將把發言權交給何塞，他將更詳細地介紹我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Hector and good morning, everyone. I will go into more detail on the group's P&L and capital performance. Let me first remind you that as we always do, we are presenting growth rates in both current and constant euros. The difference was around 5 percentage points as of September, mainly due to the depreciation of the Brazilian real and the Mexican peso towards the end of last year.

謝謝你，赫克托，大家早安。我將更詳細地介紹該集團的損益表和資本績效。首先我要提醒各位，和以往一樣，我們會以當前歐元和不變歐元兩種形式呈現成長率。截至9月份，這一差距約為5個百分點，主要原因是去年年底巴西雷亞爾和墨西哥比索貶值。

As the CEO explained, we are yet again reporting record results this quarter for the sixth consecutive quarter. Revenue grew 4% with a good cost performance in line with our objectives for 2025. Cost of risk improved in the quarter, supported by robust labor markets and our prudent risk management.

正如執行長所解釋的那樣，我們本季再次創下業績新高，這已經是連續第六個季度了。營收成長 4%，成本控制良好，符合我們 2025 年的目標。由於強勁的勞動力市場和我們審慎的風險管理，本季風險成本有所改善。

There are several positives and negatives in the other results line, but the concepts that explain most of the significant drop in this line year-on-year are the write-downs in PagoNxt in the second quarter of last year and the temporary levy on revenue earned in Spain, which this year is being recorded under the tax line. For the last two years, we have reported a continuous upward trend in profit which grew 3% this quarter in constant euros on the back of a resilient NII performance, cost under control and lower loan loss provisions.

其他業績方面也有一些利好和不利因素，但導致該項業績同比大幅下降的主要原因是去年第二季度 PagoNxt 的減值以及對西班牙收入徵收的臨時稅款，該稅款今年計入了稅收項下。過去兩年，我們的利潤持續成長，本季以固定歐元計算成長了 3%，這得益於穩健的淨利息收入表現、成本控制和較低的貸款損失準備金。

Total revenue increased 4% to EUR46 billion, on track to meet our 2025 target even with less favorable interest rates than initially anticipated. This growth was underpinned by customer activity and more than 7 million new customers. All global businesses contributed to revenue growth. Payments accelerated with revenue up 19% as both PagoNxt and Cards delivered double-digit growth in NII and fees, driven by higher activity.

總營收成長 4% 至 460 億歐元，即使利率不如預期有利，我們仍有望實現 2025 年的目標。這一成長得益於客戶的積極參與和超過700萬新客戶的加入。全球所有企業都為營收成長做出了貢獻。支付業務加速成長，營收成長 19%，PagoNxt 和 Cards 的淨利息收入和手續費均實現了兩位數成長，這主要得益於更高的交易活躍度。

Wealth also maintained the positive trends from the first half with revenue rising 13%, supported by record assets under management and a strong commercial momentum. CIB grew 6% year-on-year, driven especially by global markets and our growth initiatives in the US. Consumer also had a strong performance, supported by a strong net interest income growth across most of our footprint. And finally, in retail, revenue rose even in a less favorable interest rate context, thanks to our active margin management and our increased focus on fees.

財富管理業務也延續了上半年的正面趨勢，營收成長了 13%，這得益於創紀錄的管理資產規模和強勁的商業動能。CIB年增6%，主要得益於全球市場和我們在美國的成長計畫。消費者業務也表現強勁，這得益於我們大部分業務區域淨利息收入的強勁成長。最後，在零售方面，即使在利率環境不太有利的情況下，由於我們積極的利潤率管理和對手續費的日益重視，收入也實現了增長。

The group's net interest income increased 3% year-on-year, excluding Argentina. Although the majority of group's NII comes from retail and consumer, this quarter, most of our businesses contributed to the overall growth year-on-year which was supported by active asset and liability pricing management. This is most evident in consumer, both in Europe and the US with improving loan yields and a funding structure with a larger share of customer deposits. Also in retail, especially in the UK, Chile and Mexico.

不計阿根廷的收益，該集團淨利息收入年增 3%。儘管集團的大部分淨利息收入來自零售和消費領域，但本季度，我們的大部分業務都對同比整體成長做出了貢獻，這得益於積極的資產負債定價管理。這一點在歐洲和美國的消費者市場表現得最為明顯，貸款收益率不斷提高，融資結構中客戶存款佔比也越來越高。在零售業，尤其是在英國、智利和墨西哥，也十分普遍。

Strong activity in Cards, particularly in Brazil, higher volumes and lower funding costs related to market activities and CIB and our efforts to adapt the sensitivity of our balance sheet to protect NII on the new cycle of interest rates. A good example of this is retail, where net interest income increased across most countries in a less favorable context of interest rates.

信用卡業務活動強勁，尤其是在巴西，市場活動和企業及投資銀行業務的交易量增加，融資成本降低，以及我們努力調整資產負債表的敏感性，以在新利率週期中保護淨利息收入。零售業就是一個很好的例子，在利率環境不太有利的情況下，大多數國家的淨利息收入都有所成長。

In the quarter, net interest income was impacted by the Argentine peso. Excluding Argentina, NII was flat, and net interest margin declined only 4 basis points for similar reasons I just mentioned. This performance is in line with our guidance of NII going slightly up in 2025 in constant euros, excluding Argentina and slightly down in current euros.

本季淨利息收入受到阿根廷比索的影響。除阿根廷外，淨利息收入持平，淨利差僅下降 4 個基點，原因與我剛才提到的類似。這一業績與我們對 2025 年淨利息收入按不變歐元計算（不包括阿根廷）略有上升、按現價歐元略有下降的預期相符。

We believe net interest income is approaching its trough as we move into a more balanced environment with rates in Brazil expected to ease and lower rates in Europe likely to support consumer volumes and funding costs.

我們認為，隨著巴西利率預計將會下降，歐洲利率可能會降低，從而支撐消費量和融資成本，淨利息收入正接近谷底，市場環境將更加平衡。

Net fee income achieved yet another record period as the number of active customers continue to increase and our transformation promotes connectivity across the group, deploys high-value added products and services and delivers the best customer experience.

隨著活躍客戶數量的持續成長，淨費用收入再次創下歷史新高。我們的轉型促進了集團內部的互聯互通，部署了高附加價值的產品和服務，並提供了最佳的客戶體驗。

Fees grew high single digits, above our target for the year and well above inflation and cost. This was supported by positive activity trends, customer growth and a product mix that is shifting towards more value-added products and services. This shift is evident across all global businesses.

費用實現了接近兩位數的成長，高於我們今年的目標，也遠高於通膨率和成本。積極的市場活動趨勢、客戶成長以及產品組合向更高附加價值產品和服務轉變，都為此提供了支援。這種轉變在全球所有企業中都十分明顯。

Retail fees rose 5%, increases across most of our footprint. CIB increased 7%, up from record levels last year, boosted by an excellent first quarter and year-on-year growth across all business lines, particularly in global banking in the US. Wealth maintained strong momentum across business lines backed by record assets under management. Double-digit growth in payments, both in PagoNxt and Cards, supported by higher activity levels.

零售費用上漲 5%，我們大部分業務覆蓋區域均出現上漲。CIB 成長 7%，高於去年的創紀錄水平，這得益於第一季度的出色表現以及所有業務線的同比增長，尤其是美國全球銀行業務的增長。財富管理業務在各業務領域保持強勁成長勢頭，管理資產規模創歷史新高。PagoNxt 和 Cards 的支付業務均實現了兩位數成長，這得益於更高的活躍度。

As discussed in previous quarters, this year, consumer is affected by new insurance regulation in Germany. Nevertheless, we saw a recovery this quarter, supported by our strategic focus on insurance with rising penetration expected to translate into higher fee generation as activity accelerates. As we advance our transformation, enhancing customer experience and connectivity and continue to attract more customers, we expect a strong and sustainable fee performance.

正如前幾季所討論的，今年德國新的保險法規對消費者產生了影響。儘管如此，本季度我們看到了復甦，這得益於我們對保險業的戰略重點，預計滲透率的提高將隨著業務活動的加速而轉化為更高的費用收入。隨著我們推動轉型，提升客戶體驗和連接性，並不斷吸引更多客戶，我們預計費用表現將強勁且可持續。

ONE Transformation is key to understanding why we are improving profitability in most of our markets, leveraging the connectivity that our global businesses provide. The improvements are already very evident. Our costs dropped 1% year-on-year in current euros, which translates into better efficiency levels already amongst the best in the industry. In retail and consumer, which are the leading -- which are leading our transformation, costs are evolving very positively, down 1% in real terms, even with pressure on salaries in some countries and the upfront cost of rolling our global platforms.

ONE Transformation 是理解為何我們能夠利用全球業務提供的連結性，在大多數市場提高獲利能力的關鍵。這些改進已經非常明顯了。以當前歐元計算，我們的成本年減了 1%，這意味著我們的效率水平已經達到了業內最佳水平之一。在零售和消費領域（它們是我們轉型的主要領導者），成本發展非常積極，實際上下降了 1%，即使一些國家的工資面臨壓力，以及推出全球平台的前期成本較高。

In CIB, wealth and payments, where we are investing, costs grew. However, they showed positive operating jaws with a double-digit fee increase, as I have just explained. This excellent performance resulted in a 5% rise in net operating income from already high levels last year and our efficiency ratio improved to 41.3%, the best we have reported in more than 15 years. Going forward, we expect sustainable improvements in operational leverage as we further implement the structural changes to our model especially in retail and consumer, which represent 70% of our cost base.

在企業及投資銀行、財富和支付領域，我們的投資成本成長。然而，正如我剛才解釋的那樣，他們的營運狀況良好，收費也實現了兩位數的成長。這一優異表現使淨營業收入在去年已經很高的水平基礎上增長了 5%，我們的效率比率提高到 41.3%，這是我們 15 年多來取得的最佳成績。展望未來，隨著我們進一步實施模式的結構性變革，尤其是在零售和消費領域（占我們成本基礎的 70%），我們預期營運槓桿將得到可持續的改善。

The risk profile of our balance sheet remains low with robust credit quality across our footprint on the back of low unemployment and easing monetary policies in most countries. Loan loss provisions increased 5% year-on-year, reflecting the decision to reduce NPLs and also some deterioration in Brazil in the context of higher interest rates. Credit quality continued to improve year-on-year as reflected both in the NPL ratio and cost of risk. The NPL ratio was fairly stable at 2.92%. Remember that much of our NPL ratio -- our NPL portfolio has collateral, guarantees and provisions that account for more than 80% of its total exposure.

由於大多數國家的低失業率和寬鬆的貨幣政策，我們的資產負債表風險狀況依然較低，我們在業務覆蓋範圍內的信貸品質穩健。貸款損失準備金年增 5%，反映了減少不良貸款的決定，也反映了在利率上升的背景下巴西情況的惡化。信貸品質逐年持續改善，不良貸款率和風險成本均有所改善。NPL比率相當穩定，為2.92%。請記住，我們的不良貸款率——我們的不良貸款組合中有抵押品、擔保和撥備，佔其總風險敞口的 80% 以上。

Cost of risk improved year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter to 1.13% despite the management actions I just explained. In retail, cost of risk improved year-on-year across all our main countries and was steady in the quarter. In consumer, cost of risk also improved both year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter as the excellent trends in the US continued in the third quarter even with the usual seasonality.

儘管我剛才解釋了管理措施，但風險成本同比和環比均有所改善，降至 1.13%。在零售業，我們所有主要國家的風險成本較去年同期均有所改善，並且本季保持穩定。在消費領域，風險成本也較去年同期和較上季均有所改善，因為美國市場的良好趨勢在第三季得以延續，即使受到季節性因素的影響。

US auto has demonstrated to be highly profitable and resilient business through multiple macroeconomic cycles. It continues to perform better than expected even after some normalization of the delinquency rate in line with our expectations. With over 90-day delinquency at historically low levels, backed by strong labor markets and resilient used car values. Finally, our lending exposure to private markets is less than 1% of group's lending exposure. We anticipate a stable cost of risk going forward, supported by stable labor markets.

美國汽車產業已經證明，它在多個宏觀經濟週期中都是一個利潤豐厚且具韌性的產業。即使在違約率按照我們的預期有所正常化之後，其表現仍然好於預期。超過 90 天的逾期率處於歷史低位，這得益於強勁的勞動力市場和堅挺的二手車價格。最後，我們對私募市場的貸款曝險不到集團貸款曝險的 1%。我們預期未來風險成本將保持穩定，這得益於穩定的勞動市場。

Moving on to capital. As you know, we have been working on improving our capital productivity and accelerating our capital generation for some time. Our CET1 ratio increased again to 13.1% and is now above the top end of our 12% to 13% operating range. This quarter, we generated 56 basis points of capital from attributable profit, which enabled us to accumulate capital after allocating some capital to profitable organic risk-weighted asset growth mostly offset by asset rotation initiatives, compensating capital distribution charges for shareholder remuneration and AT1s and absorbing other charges, including some regulatory headwinds, which, as we discussed last quarter, this year will be lower than initially expected, as some of them have been postponed to 2026 and some of the technical notes published by the EBA were more favorable than anticipated.

接下來談談資本。如您所知，我們一直在努力提高資本生產力，並加快資本累積速度。我們的 CET1 比率再次上升至 13.1%，目前已超過我們 12% 至 13% 的營運範圍上限。本季度，我們從歸屬利潤中產生了 56 個基點的資本，這使我們能夠在將部分資本分配給盈利的有機風險加權資產增長（大部分被資產輪動計劃所抵消）後積累資本，補償股東報酬和 AT1 的資本分配費用，並吸收其他費用，包括一些監管方面的不利因素。正如我們上個季度討論的那樣，今年的監管不利因素將低於最初預期，因為其中一些已被推遲到 2026 年，而且歐洲銀行管理局 (EBA) 發布的一些技術說明比預期的更為有利。

We continue to deploy capital to the most profitable opportunities and leverage our global asset desks mobilization capabilities to maximize capital productivity. Our disciplined capital allocation delivered a new book of 2.8% in the quarter, equivalent to a return on tangible equity of 22%, well above that of our back book. Hector, back to you.

我們將繼續將資金投入最有利可圖的機會中，並利用我們全球資產調動能力來最大限度地提高資本生產力。我們嚴格的資本配置在本季實現了 2.8% 的新股發行率，相當於 22% 的有形權益回報率，遠高於我們現有債券的發行率。赫克托，把機會交還給你。

Thanks, Jose. In conclusion, these are great results. Good business dynamics and our business model supported solid revenue growth with fees rising high single digits while we reduced cost in euros. Cost of risk improved and remains in line with our target of around 1.5% at the end of the year.

謝謝你，何塞。總之，這些都是非常好的結果。良好的業務動態和我們的商業模式支撐了穩健的收入成長，費用實現了接近兩位數的成長，同時我們降低了歐元成本。風險成本有所改善，並與我們年底設定的約 1.5% 的目標保持一致。

We grew the CET1 ratio again to 13.1%, exceeding the upper end of our operating range on the back of our strong capital generation, while we profitably grow our business organically and continue to reward our shareholders. And RoTE improved and is on track to reach our target of around 16.5% in '25 and TNAV plus cash dividend per share keeps growing double digits.

憑藉強勁的資本創造能力，我們的 CET1 比率再次提高到 13.1%，超過了我們營運範圍的上限，同時我們實現了業務的有機盈利增長，並繼續為股東帶來回報。RoTE 有所改善，預計在 2025 年達到我們設定的 16.5% 左右的目標，而每股總資產價值加上現金股息也持續以兩位數成長。

In summary, very -- results even in a less favorable environment than we initially anticipated, which makes us confident that we will achieve all our '25 targets. We expect to maintain the good trends supported by our focus on profitable growth as we deepen in our transformation in the context of resilient labor markets.

總之，即使在比我們最初預期的更不利的環境下，我們也取得了非常好的結果，這讓我們有信心實現我們所有的 2025 年目標。我們預計，在勞動市場保持韌性的背景下，隨著我們不斷深化轉型，我們將維持以獲利成長為重點的良好發展趨勢。

We are building a stronger and more connected Santander to track the full potential of our unique combination of customer focus, scale and diversification. This is exactly what makes us confident that we will keep on growing and creating long-term value across different economic cycles. And the best is yet to come.

我們正在打造一個更強大、更緊密的桑坦德銀行，以充分發揮我們以客戶為中心、規模和多元化這一獨特組合的潛力。正是這一點讓我們有信心，我們將在不同的經濟週期中持續成長並創造長期價值。最好的還在後頭。

Now we will be happy to take your questions. Thank you.

現在我們很樂意回答您的問題。謝謝。

Thank you, Hector. Thank you, Jose. Could we go to the first question, please?

謝謝你，赫克托。謝謝你，何塞。我們能直接進入第一個問題嗎？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Ignacio Ulargui, BNP.

Ignacio Ulargui，法國巴黎銀行。

Thanks very much for the presentation and for taking my questions. I have two questions. I mean, looking to your RoTE target for the year of 16.5%, has to be an acceleration into the fourth quarter to get to the to that level. What would be the main drivers for that? I mean, do you feel revenue and NII has probably troughed this quarter, we should see a more decisive increase in the quarters to come? Or will be fees, what drives that performance?

非常感謝您的講解和解答我的問題。我有兩個問題。我的意思是，要達到全年16.5%的RoTE目標，第四季必須加速成長才能達到這個水準。造成這種情況的主要驅動因素是什麼？我的意思是，您是否認為本季營收和淨利息收入可能已經觸底，我們應該會在接下來的幾季看到更明顯的成長？或者說費用，是什麼因素驅動了這種表現？

I mean, linked to that, how should we think into 2026 on those lines? I have -- the second question is a bit of a clarification. Looking to the credit quality in Brazil, there has been a small improvement in the quarter. Provisions have come down. How should we think about cost of risk? And I mean, there has been any kind of release of provisions that you took in 2Q for the extra top-up that you did? Or is just underlying improvement of credit quality and provisioning. Thank you.

我的意思是，由此引申出一個問題：我們該如何展望2026年？我已經回答了——第二個問題需要一些澄清。從巴西的信貸品質來看，本季略有改善。物資供應量下降了。我們該如何看待風險成本？我的意思是，你在第二季為額外追加投資而提列的準備金是否有任何釋放？或者僅僅是信貸品質和撥備的根本性改善。謝謝。

Thank you, Ignacio. First of all, let me discuss a little bit about the RoTE of the 16.5% as AT1 target. First of all, I mean, as you have seen in the first nine months, we have delivered a record profit with a RoTE of 16.1%. But if you see just in Q3, the underlying RoTE is well above the 6.5%, okay? So it's very important that you see that.

謝謝你，伊格納西奧。首先，讓我來討論一下 16.5% 作為 AT1 目標的 RoTE。首先，我的意思是，正如你們在前九個月所看到的，我們實現了創紀錄的利潤，股東回報率 (RoTE) 為 16.1%。但如果你只看第三季度，你會發現其基礎 RoTE 遠高於 6.5%，懂嗎？所以你一定要明白這一點。

Second, we expect a really strong performance in Q4, basically driven by a number of factors. You can see, first of all, we also have seasonality higher fees. We have an increased momentum from the execution of ONE Transformation, and we're reiterating the guidance of around EUR62 billion in revenue for '25. We see lower cost and the cost of risk around 115 that we have discussed and other results of around EUR3 billion. So I do believe that our strategy, the business model, the diversification, the disciplined approach to capital allocation, we deliver a compounding effect that will continue in the positive results we are aiming for. So I see that we're going to get around that circa 16.5%.

其次，我們預期第四季業績將非常強勁，這主要受多種因素驅動。首先，您可以看到，我們還有季節性較高的費用。ONE Transformation 的實施為我們帶來了更大的發展動力，我們重申 2025 年營收預期約為 620 億歐元。我們看到成本降低，風險成本約為 115，正如我們討論的那樣，其他結果約為 30 億歐元。因此，我相信我們的策略、商業模式、多元化以及嚴謹的資本配置方法，將產生複利效應，並持續帶來我們所追求的正面成果。所以我認為我們最終會達到 16.5% 左右。

The important thing also to take into account is the disciplined capital allocation that is driving the 15% growth in value creation and higher shareholder remuneration and with the CET1 that you have seen, that is strong at levels of around 13.1%, okay? So it is very important for that.

還需要考慮的重要一點是，有紀律的資本配置推動了價值創造增長 15%，提高了股東回報，而且正如你所看到的，CET1 也非常強勁，達到了 13.1% 左右，明白嗎？所以這一點非常重要。

I mean as you were also, I mean, the outlook for '26, as you have seen over the last two years, we have shown consistent execution of the strategy, and we have delivered RoTE every year from below the 15% that we were back in '22, okay? As you know and we have discussed, we will provide further details over the next for the next three year plan, our Investor Day that is going to be '26. So wait us for that.

我的意思是，就像你之前說的，關於 2026 年的展望，正如你在過去兩年裡所看到的，我們已經持續有效地執行了戰略，並且每年都實現了 RoTE，而 2022 年我們的 RoTE 還低於 15%，好嗎？如您所知，我們也討論過，我們將在接下來的三年計劃中提供更多細節，我們的投資者日將於 2026 年舉行。所以請耐心等待。

But it is important to understand that if you see every single unit of the bank, basically showing improvement. First of all, every single business unit, a global business is also improving. And as we already said, we're only scratching the surface of the potential with ONE Transformation. As we have discussed previously, and I said back in the Investor Day in the beginning of '23, is that our aim was to become the best bank in every single geography.

但重要的是要明白，如果你觀察銀行的每個部門，基本上都會看到改進的跡象。首先，每個業務部門，甚至整個全球業務，都在不斷改進。正如我們之前所說，我們僅僅觸及了 ONE Transformation 潛力的冰山一角。正如我們之前討論過的，而且我在 2023 年初的投資者日上也說過，我們的目標是成為每個地區最好的銀行。

And up to today, we are best-in-class in five of our geographies, but we still have five geographies to close the gap with the number one in that market. So that basically gives you the view that we will continue improving.

截至目前，我們在五個地區處於行業領先地位，但我們還有五個地區需要縮小與該市場第一名的差距。所以這基本上表明我們會繼續進步。

And then we have, as you know, '26 is also a transition year with the impact from Poland reducing net profit by EUR700 million and TSB the contribution that is likely to be more material once we progress on the integration. So -- also on the current cost base elevated given the migration towards global platforms, which is resulting in some application of cost. But nonetheless, I do see that we have a very promising '26. In terms of -- sorry, Jose, go ahead.

此外，如您所知，2026 年也是一個過渡年，波蘭的合併將使淨利潤減少 7 億歐元，而 TSB 的合併一旦我們在整合方面取得進展，其影響可能會更加顯著。因此，由於向全球平台遷移，目前的成本基礎也隨之提高，這導致了一些成本的應用。但即便如此，我仍然認為我們2026年很有希望。至於——抱歉，何塞，請繼續。

No, no.

不，不。

Yeah. I was want to talk about cost of risk in Brazil. Look, in the quarter, loan loss provisions fell 9% quarter-on-quarter, okay? 12-month cost of risk remained stable at around 4.71. Over the last two years, we have de-risked the balance sheet, as we have been explaining to you every single quarter.

是的。我想談談巴西的風險成本。你看，本季貸款損失準備金較上月下降了 9%，好嗎？過去 12 個月的風險成本保持穩定在 4.71 左右。過去兩年，我們降低了資產負債表的風險，正如我們每季都向您解釋的那樣。

With a rapid contraction of unsecured and less profitable lines such as personal and payroll loans that -- remember that I explained to you that we were changing the mix, and that's basically helping us out. However, I mean, we have rates that are the highest in the developed world, I mean, 10% -- 10 points of real rates which is also a challenging environment for companies, especially agribusiness, corporate.

由於無擔保和利潤較低的貸款業務（例如個人貸款和工資貸款）迅速萎縮——記住我向你們解釋過，我們正在改變貸款組合，這基本上對我們有所幫助。但是，我的意思是，我們的利率是已開發國家中最高的，實際利率高達 10%——10 個百分點，這對企業，尤其是農業綜合企業和公司來說，也是一個充滿挑戰的環境。

So it's a difficult environment, hopefully, rates, and we basically believe will be coming down a little bit during the first quarter. So I do believe that credit quality, volume growth and earnings will be supported by an improving macro, which we have seen. Even with these rates, remember that Brazil is going to grow around 2% at the year. And as I said, hopefully, by the end of '27, we see rates falling down to 10.5%. Jose can basically give you more details. .

所以目前環境比較艱難，但我們希望利率能在第一季有所下降。因此，我相信信貸品質、交易量成長和獲利能力將受到宏觀經濟改善的支撐，而我們已經看到了這種改善。即使按照這些成長率，也要記住巴西每年仍將保持約 2% 的成長率。正如我所說，希望到 2027 年底，利率能夠降至 10.5%。Jose可以提供更多細節。。

Just to add, if you look at cost of risk, on a quarterly basis, in 2024, cost of risk was 4.5% every quarter. In the first two quarters of this year, we had cost of risk of 4.9%. It's back to 4.5% in the third quarter. There's nothing extraordinary, no reversal of provisions or anything. So it's a more normalized asset quality level, the one that we've seen in the third quarter. And we would expect to finish the year within the range that we guided you for, which is somewhere between 4.7% to 4.8% or around 4.8% cost of risk.

再補充一點，如果按季度來看風險成本，2024 年的風險成本每季為 4.5%。今年前兩個季度，我們的風險成本為 4.9%。第三季回升至4.5%。沒有什麼特別的事情發生，也沒有任何條款的改變。所以，目前的資產品質水準更加正常化，與我們在第三季看到的水準相當。我們預計今年的風險成本將保持在我們之前向您預測的範圍內，即 4.7% 到 4.8% 之間，或約為 4.8%。

Thanks very much. Could we have the next question, please?

非常感謝。請問下一個問題可以嗎？

Cecilia Romero, Barclays.

塞西莉亞·羅梅羅，巴克萊銀行。

Thank you very much for taking my questions. In -- the first one is on capital. You have guided for around 20 basis points of regulatory headwinds, if I'm not mistaken for the rest of the year, which now obviously looks like it will come in, in Q4. Is that still the case? Considering Q4 is typically a more intensive risk-weighted asset quarter and that there could be an additional hit from UK motor provisions, how comfortable are you with the 13% CET1 target?

非常感謝您回答我的問題。首先──第一個是關於資本的。如果我沒記錯的話，您曾預測今年剩餘時間將面臨約 20 個基點的監管阻力，而現在看來，這些阻力顯然會在第四季到來。現在情況仍然如此嗎？考慮到第四季度通常是風險加權資產更集中的季度，而英國汽車撥備可能會帶來額外衝擊，您對 13% 的 CET1 目標有多大把握？

And then my second one is on corporate actions. For the Santander Bank Polska sale and TSB acquisition, is everything still on track to be closed by year-end and early 2026, respectively? And is there any changes to capital impacts or any of the financial impacts previously announced? Thank you.

我的第二個主題是公司行為。桑坦德銀行波蘭分行的出售和TSB銀行的收購，目前是否仍按計畫分別在年底和2026年初完成？資本影響或其他先前公佈的財務影響是否有任何變化？謝謝。

Thank you, Cecilia. So in terms of -- I'm going to basically answer you number two. So in terms of Santander Bank Polska. I mean, I review every single week the advanced on that one. And I believe that we're right on track to close on Q1. In terms of capital, I will ask Jose basically to give you his overview what you have asked.

謝謝你，塞西莉亞。所以關於——我基本上要回答你的第二個問題。所以，就桑坦德銀行波蘭分行而言。我的意思是，我每週都會複習那門課的進階內容。我相信我們完全有能力準時完成第一季的工作。關於資金方面，我基本上會請何塞向你概述一下你所問的問題。

So the outlook for regulatory and supervisory charges is now better, as I said during the presentation because some charges that we expect this year have been postponed and probably will be lower than we had anticipated. They have been postponed to '26. And also some of the technical model adjustments, et cetera, came in better than expected. So for the year as a whole, I would say that regulatory and supervisory charges will be in the region of 20 basis points to 25 basis points. We have had 16 basis points in the first nine months of the year.

正如我在演講中所說，監管和監督費用的前景現在更好了，因為我們預計今年的一些費用已被推遲，而且可能會低於我們預期的金額。它們已被推遲到2026年。此外，一些技術模型調整等等，效果也比預期好。因此，就全年而言，我認為監管費用將在 20 到 25 個基點之間。今年前九個月，我們累積下降了16個基點。

In terms of targets, we believe that we will generate capital in the fourth quarter from the 13.1% that we reported in September. So the -- let's say, the view that we have today on capital is that the ratio will increase in the fourth quarter further. In terms of the capital charges, et cetera, related to the acquisitions, nothing's changed. We think Poland will generate around 90 basis points of capital. We don't know exactly because it depends on the deductions, but it will be around 90 basis points.

就目標而言，我們相信第四季我們將實現資本成長，高於9月份報告的13.1%。所以——比如說，我們目前對資本的看法是，該比率將在第四季進一步上升。至於與收購相關的資本費用等事宜，則沒有任何變動。我們認為波蘭將產生約 90 個基點的資本。我們無法確切知道，因為這取決於扣除額，但大概在 90 個基點左右。

The acquisition of TSB is around 50 basis points, 52 basis points capital charge. And remember that we announced once we closed Poland, a share buyback in the amount of EUR3.2 billion, so -- which is around 50 basis points. So those are the capital charges from the transactions, and we haven't -- they haven't changed in the last couple of months. So we don't expect them to change materially from the numbers I gave you.

收購 TSB 的資本費用約為 50 至 52 個基點。別忘了，我們在完成波蘭的收購後，宣布了一項金額為 32 億歐元的股票回購計劃，也就是約 50 個基點。所以這些都是交易產生的資本費用，而且在過去的幾個月裡，這些費用並沒有改變。所以我們預計這些數字不會與我之前告訴你的數字有實質的變化。

Thanks very much, Jose. We have the next question please.

非常感謝，何塞。我們還有下一個問題。

Francisco Riquel, Alantra.

弗朗西斯科·里克爾，阿蘭特拉。

Yes, thank you. Thank you for the presentation. My first question is on NII in Spain, which is 1% up quarter-on-quarter. You were guiding for a decline. You already improved the full year guidance from minus 6%, minus 7%, to minus 4%, minus 5%. So I wonder if you can update again on this guidance because I think I feel trends are better than expected and comment also on the margin dynamics. I see the customer spread is down, but NIM is stable. So what should we expect for NII loan growth in Spain in Q4 and in 2026?

是的，謝謝。感謝您的演講。我的第一個問題是關於西班牙的淨利息收入（NII），該數據環比增長了 1%。你當時是在引導衰落。你們已經將全年業績預期從 -6%、-7% 提高到 -4%、-5%。所以我想知道您能否再次更新這方面的指導意見，因為我覺得目前的趨勢好於預期，也想就利潤率的動態發表一下看法。我看到客戶價差下降，但淨利差保持穩定。那麼，我們應該對西班牙第四季和 2026 年的淨利息收入貸款成長抱持怎樣的預期呢？

And then my second question is, I wonder if you can update on the rollout of the Gravity platform. You have recently completed in large markets like Spain and Chile. I wonder what type of efficiency and productivity gains are you capturing already? And what shall we expect on a full year basis? Thank you.

我的第二個問題是，您能否介紹一下 Gravity 平台的推出？您最近已在西班牙和智利等大型市場完成了交易。我想知道你們目前已經獲得了哪些效率和生產力上的提升？那麼，我們對全年的情況有何預期？謝謝。

Thank you, Francisco. Yes, as you have said, I mean, NII in Spain is much better. I think that the Spanish team has done a great job in terms of managing debtors and as Jose explained in his presentation, we have done a pretty good job in that sense. That's why you'll see NII basically up 1%. We expect, I mean, to continue in fourth quarter up low single digits from flat that we have expected. So -- and we expect to basically have that.

謝謝你，弗朗西斯科。是的，正如你所說，我的意思是，西班牙的NII要好得多。我認為西班牙隊在債務管理方面做得非常出色，正如何塞在他的演講中所解釋的那樣，我們在這方面也做得相當不錯。這就是為什麼你會看到淨利息收入基本上上漲了1%。我的意思是，我們預計第四季將繼續保持個位數低成長，而先前我們預期的是持平。所以——我們預計基本上會是這樣。

For '26, I will basically tell you that, I mean, we have good dynamics. But nevertheless, we expect -- it is important that you wait for the beautiful picture that you have in front of you in terms of the Investor Day, we will give you a little pretty good idea of what we expect. In terms of the rollout with Gravity, I'm glad you asked the question. I think that, look, it's very important.

對於 2026 年，我基本上可以告訴你，我的意思是，我們有良好的團隊氛圍。但是，儘管如此，我們還是希望——重要的是，請耐心等待投資者日的到來，屆時我們將向您展示一幅美好的藍圖，並讓您對我們的預期有一個大致的了解。關於 Gravity 的推廣計劃，我很高興你提出了這個問題。我認為，這非常重要。

As a matter of fact, we just migrated Mexico this weekend, okay? That's another large market that is being migrated. So to tell you exactly how it works is basically once we migrate a country to Gravity we start basically shutting down the mainframes.

事實上，我們這週末才搬到墨西哥，好嗎？這是另一個正在遷移的大型市場。所以，要具體說明它的工作原理，基本上就是一旦我們將一個國家遷移到 Gravity，我們就會開始關閉大型主機。

Let me give you an example. Remember that Spain was migrated in April. We had -- used to have five mainframes in Spain. Two already have been shut down. We're still waiting to shut down another three more that we will be closed on over the next 18 months. Once we shut down those, that basically decreased costs quite a lot because every time we do that, I mean, actually, we save a lot of money by all the charges that we get from the suppliers in terms of that.

我舉個例子。請記住，西班牙是在四月遷移的。我們以前在西班牙有五台大型主機。其中兩家已經關閉。我們還有三家工廠正在等待關閉，這些工廠將在未來 18 個月內關閉。一旦我們關閉了這些設施，成本就大大降低了，因為每次我們這樣做，實際上，我們都能省下很多錢，因為我們從供應商收到的所有相關費用都節省了不少。

So to give you factor numbers, I mean, we can contact you later because I don't have the exact new numbers that we will get from that. But I do believe by the end of '26, all the big countries will be migrated, and we will start the migration with the smaller countries. What I can tell you, the results are pretty good. The NPS with the customers is going better. The response, I don't know what market is and if you're a customer of ours, but hopefully, you are, you're going to see that the speed has become a lot better. It is a lot this easier year because we don't go back and forward to the mainframe every single time you consult your balance on your current account or anything like that, it's pretty much faster.

所以，要給你提供因子數，我的意思是，我們可以稍後聯繫你，因為我還沒有從中得到的確切新數字。但我相信到 2026 年底，所有的大國都會完成遷移，我們將從小國開始遷移。我可以告訴你的是，結果相當不錯。客戶淨推薦值 (NPS) 正在好轉。回覆是，我不知道市場狀況如何，也不知道您是否是我們的客戶，但希望您是，您會發現速度已經好多了。今年方便多了，因為我們不必每次您查詢當前帳戶餘額或其他類似資訊時都往返於主機之間，速度快了很多。

So I think that -- the results are there. Spain is getting less cost out of what we have done. Chile, the response has been really, really good. Mexico migration was a success, and we expect to be closing -- I mean, decreasing the amount of capacity. We're using the mainframe right away, and we'll see it to operate, but you see the results on '26. That's when exactly happens because we will be shutting down the mainframes on those markets.

所以我認為——結果已經證明了。西班牙從我們所做的工作中節省了成本。智利方面，反應真的非常好。墨西哥移民計畫取得了成功，我們預計將會關閉——我的意思是，減少移民容量。我們將立即使用大型主機，我們將看到它運行，但您將在 26 日看到結果。屆時情況將完全不同，因為我們將關閉這些市場上的大型主機。

If I may add some details on NII, you asked about the difference between customer margins and NII. I think we are -- as Hector said, we are doing a great job in managing cost of deposits, a lot better than we anticipated. We are growing volumes at a lower cost. So that's one component relative to the initial guidance we gave at the beginning of the year. The other one is obviously all the hedging decisions that we've taken. Right now, we have around EUR50 billion of Spanish government bonds at an average yield of 3.4% and a duration of five years. That's expected to add quite a lot to the NII in the fourth quarter and next year.

如果我可以補充一些關於淨利息收入的細節，您問到了客戶利潤率和淨利息收入之間的差異。我認為正如赫克託所說，我們在管理存款成本方面做得非常出色，比我們預期的要好得多。我們以更低的成本實現了產量的成長。這是與我們年初給出的初步指導意見相關的一個組成部分。另一個顯然是我們採取的所有對沖決策。目前，我們持有約 500 億歐元的西班牙政府債券，平均殖利率為 3.4%，期限為五年。預計這將為第四季和明年的淨利息收入增加相當多。

So on a sequential basis, I think, as I said, we are close to the trough. It's possible that we see a slight decrease quarter-on-quarter, maybe one or two quarters more, but from very, very close to basically flattish, but basically, probably slightly down quarter-on-quarter. So if you look at the year as a whole, you're right, we guided for minus 6%, then minus 4%, and it's going to be flat or slightly down year-on-year, but the outlook for 2026, beyond this one, two quarters where it might be marginally down, is quite positive.

所以從順序上看，我認為，正如我所說，我們已經接近谷底了。我們可能會看到季度環比略有下降，也許還會持續一兩個季度，但基本上會從非常接近持平，但基本上可能會略微環比下降。所以，如果從全年來看，你說得對，我們之前預測為-6%，然後是-4%，而且與去年同期相比將持平或略有下降，但2026年的前景，以及接下來的兩個季度（儘管可能會略有下降），都相當樂觀。

Thank you very much. Could we have the next question, please?

非常感謝。請問下一個問題可以嗎？

Sophie Peterson, Goldman Sachs.

蘇菲彼得森，高盛集團。

Yeah, thank you for taking my question. Sophie from Goldman Sachs. So my first question would be around the kind of litigation provisions still to come. You did provision in the corporate venture in the fourth quarter. How much -- or is there any additional details that you could give around this provision? And how much should we expect still to come from UK Motor and also AXA provisions? Do you have any other litigation provisions that we should expect in any other countries over the next quarter or year? That would be my first question.

是的，謝謝你回答我的問題。來自高盛的蘇菲。所以我的第一個問題是關於未來還會推出哪些訴訟條款。您在第四季度對企業合資項目進行了準備金提列。具體金額是多少？或者您能否提供關於此項規定的其他細節？我們還能期待從英國汽車保險公司和安盛集團獲得多少賠償？在接下來的一個季度或一年內，我們是否應該預期在其他國家/地區出現其他訴訟條款？這將是我的第一個問題。

Then my second question would be, if you could maybe talk a little bit more about the net interest income outlook in Brazil. I know interest rates are expected to come down. But in the kind of short-term -- short to medium term, what do you expect in terms of volume growth? Could you remind us of your rate sensitivity in Brazil? And how long does it take for lever rates to help the Brazilian net interest income? Thank you.

那麼我的第二個問題是，您能否再多談談巴西的淨利息收入前景？我知道利率預計會下降。但就短期（中短期）而言，您預期銷售成長會如何？能否提醒一下您在巴西的利率敏感度？槓桿率需要多久才能幫助提高巴西的淨利息收入？謝謝。

Thank you, Sophie. Okay. I mean, first of all, on this situation of the litigation provisions to come. First of all, on the UK AXA situation, we do not expect the net impact of the to be material for the group, okay? In October 22, the court granted Santander permission to appeal and the case will now proceed to the court of appeal. Given this is an ongoing matter, we are not able to comment any further. I'm sorry about that.

謝謝你，索菲。好的。我的意思是，首先，關於即將出台的訴訟條款的情況。首先，關於英國安盛集團的情況，我們預期其淨影響不會對集團造成重大影響，好嗎？10月22日，法院批准桑坦德銀行上訴，該案將提交上訴法院審理。鑑於此事仍在調查中，我們不便發表更多評論。對此我深感抱歉。

In terms of the UK Motor Finance, in '24, as you know, we took almost a GBP300 million provision for the UK FCA Motor Finance review. We have noted that the FCA has recently published a consultation into a proposed with scheme and Santander UK. is reviewing the consultation in detail, basically, to understand the potential implications.

就英國汽車金融而言，如您所知，在 2024 年，我們為英國金融行為監理局 (FCA) 的汽車金融審查提列了近 3 億英鎊的準備金。我們注意到，FCA最近發布了一份關於擬議方案的諮詢文件，桑坦德銀行英國分行正在詳細審查該諮詢文件，主要目的是了解其潛在影響。

We also note that the FCA proposed approach is first in an important respect from the Supreme Court's ruling and the legal basis for the reverse schemes relevant period is not clear, and it remains at the consultation stage. So there is, therefore, certainty regarding the final scope methodically and the timing of the redress scheme that may ultimately be implemented. So at this point, I think it's very complicated.

我們也注意到，FCA 提出的方法在重要方面與最高法院的裁決有所不同，反向收購方案相關期限的法律依據尚不明確，目前仍處於諮詢階段。因此，對於最終可能實施的補救方案的最終範圍和時間安排，是可以確定的。所以我覺得，目前的情況非常複雜。

And the important thing that I can tell you that is not expected to be material for the group and no more than a few points of CET1. So we will provide you further update on the Q4 results, and we reiterate that we are on track for the results and the guidance that we can give you for '25 on all the targets.

我可以告訴你們的重要一點是，這預計不會成為小組的實質內容，也不會超過 CET1 的幾個分數。因此，我們將向您提供第四季度業績的進一步更新，並重申我們正按計劃實現業績，並保證在 2025 年實現所有目標。

In terms of NII outlook for Brazil, what I can tell you is interesting to say basically that we need to put Brazil in context. So it's very important to understand that. The loan book in Brazil is only 9% of the total group loans. Diversification is working. The impact of higher rates and inflation in Brazil has been positively offset by the stronger performance in Europe and in other businesses. But Brazil is also it's important to say is growing by 2% in '25.

就巴西的淨利息收入前景而言，我可以告訴你的是，基本上我們需要將巴西放在具體的背景下看待。所以理解這一點非常重要。巴西的貸款組合僅佔集團貸款總額的9%。多角化經營策略正在奏效。巴西利率上升和通貨膨脹的影響被歐洲和其他行業的強勁表現所抵消。但值得一提的是，巴西在 2025 年也實現了 2% 的成長。

Labor markets have been resilient, okay, despite the challenging rate environment. And as I said before, interest rates are the highest, I mean, in terms of real rates, which is important point to take. So what we have done is that we are changing the mix, and we are going through a higher-quality business, which means lower margins but more stable asset quality, which is very important. And I feel comfortable and confident that as monetary policies, the business will do even better than we did in the last in-cycle.

儘管利率環境充滿挑戰，但勞動市場依然維持了韌性。正如我之前所說，利率是最高的，我是指實際利率，這一點很重要。因此，我們改變了業務組合，轉向更高品質的業務，這意味著利潤率降低，但資產品質更加穩定，這非常重要。而我感到安心和有信心，作為貨幣政策，企業將會比上一個週期做得更好。

Also, you got to remember, as you know very well, that we have negative sensitivity to high rates in Brazil. So we expect once the rates start coming down, that, that basically will help us out, and we will give better margins for us. If we in that, I don't know, Jose, if you would like to complement.

另外，你也要記住，你很清楚，我們對巴西的高感染率非常敏感。因此我們預計，一旦利率開始下降，那將對我們有所幫助，並為我們帶來更高的利潤率。如果我們那樣做，我不知道，何塞，你是否願意補充。

Yes. Just some details on that. Interest rate sensitivity today to 100 basis point move in the curve is EUR75 million upwards and downwards. You know that this is lower than it has been in the last few years. We've been decreasing the overall sensitivity, but more importantly, we've been moving the sensitivity towards -- we've made a sensitivity more sort of homogeneous along the curve.

是的。關於這方面還有一些細節。目前，利率曲線每變動 100 個基點，利率波動幅度可達 7,500 萬歐元。你知道，這個數字比過去幾年都要低。我們一直在降低整體靈敏度，但更重要的是，我們一直在使靈敏度朝向——我們使靈敏度沿著曲線更加均勻的方向發展。

So we no longer depend as much on short-term rates, but we have a we have spread sensitivity from zero to three, four years, which we think is the right position to be in front of the lower rates we expect next year. So we would expect NII to be stable in 2025 with basically a stable revenue with fees up. This basically on loans that are also going to be stable in 2025. So again, no further, I would say, the sensitivity we have, when we look at 2025 -- sorry, 2026 and 2027 should contribute to -- positively to NII evolution in Brazil in the next couple of years.

因此，我們不再像以前那樣依賴短期利率，但我們對零至三、四年的利差非常敏感，我們認為這是在明年預期利率下降之前做好準備的正確做法。因此，我們預計 2025 年 NII 將保持穩定，收入基本上保持穩定，而手續費將有所上漲。這基本上是指那些在 2025 年也將保持穩定的貸款。所以，再說一遍，我認為，當我們展望 2025 年——抱歉，是 2026 年和 2027 年——時，我們所表現出的敏感性應該會對未來幾年巴西的 NII 發展產生積極影響。

Thanks very much. Could we have the next question, please?

非常感謝。請問下一個問題可以嗎？

Alvaro Serrano, Morgan Stanley.

阿爾瓦羅·塞拉諾，摩根士丹利。

Hi, thanks for taking my questions. I kind of have a follow-up on costs and on US asset quality. On cost, cost to income continued to improve sequentially quarter-on-quarter. My follow-up is -- apologies, Hector, I thought I heard you say that Mexico gravity was implemented this weekend. But I don't -- I missed it if you can give us the pipeline over the next few countries over the next few quarters.

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。我還有一些關於成本和美國資產品質的後續問題需要解答。成本方面，成本收入比較上季持續改善。我的後續問題是——抱歉，赫克托，我好像聽到你說墨西哥重力系統是在這個週末實施的。但我沒有——如果你能給我們未來幾季接下來幾個國家的管道情況，我會很感激的。

And as we think about next year's cost in medium term, I noted in the past, you've said you can achieve flat costs in retail, in particular. Is this possible in places like Brazil and Mexico -- Brazil in Mexico, sorry, your cost income is not as good as peers. So just wondering if there is an advantage there that we're not taking into account?

當我們考慮明年中期成本時，我過去曾指出，您說過，尤其是在零售領域，您可以實現成本持平。這在巴西和墨西哥等地是否可行？ ——巴西和墨西哥，抱歉，你的成本收入不如同行。所以我想知道這其中是否存在著我們沒有考慮到的優勢？

And the second on costs -- sorry, on cost of risk in the US. Of course, I noted your comments saying that stable as quarterly performance in the US. But if we look at ABS data at an aggregate level, there is a deterioration, it looks like in subprime auto, which you have some exposure to. Can you maybe talk us through why you think you're not seeing that the two regions, is it because you haven't been growing that much in the segment over the last two, three years? You're not exposed to undocumented where there has been some trouble. Maybe some more color on that stable performance in the US that you've noted. Thank you.

第二點是關於成本——抱歉，是關於美國的風險成本。當然，我注意到您提到美國季度業績穩定。但如果我們從整體來看澳洲統計局的數據，就會發現情況惡化，尤其是在次級汽車貸款方面，而你在這方面也有一些風險敞口。您能否詳細解釋一下，為什麼您認為這兩個地區沒有出現這種情況？是因為過去兩三年裡，您在這個領域的成長並不顯著嗎？你不會接觸到那些出現過問題的、未經記錄的資訊。或許可以再詳細說說您提到的美國市場穩定的業績表現。謝謝。

Thank you, Alvaro. So first of all, let me give you a general view on cost on the group, and then we'll get into the details of Gravity and then flat cost in Mexico, Brazil which, by the way, are pretty good questions. And then I'll address the US, which thank you very much. I knew you were coming with that one, so I was prepared, okay?

謝謝你，阿爾瓦羅。首先，讓我先給你們大致介紹一下集團的成本，然後我們將詳細介紹 Gravity，以及墨西哥和巴西的固定成本，順便說一句，這些都是很好的問題。然後我將向美國發表講話，非常感謝美國。我知道你會這麼說，所以我早有準備，好嗎？

So costs remain very well controlled in the first nine months of '25, as you have seen. So minus 1% in current, all right? I must tell you that we will reiterate the guidance to deliver lower cost in current euros versus '25 versus '24, okay? Because -- we see that we're done in absolute terms, and the cost growth remains below the revenue growth, which is very important in this group. Remember, always positive jaws.

正如你所看到的，2025 年前九個月的成本控制得非常好。所以，目前匯率下降1%，可以嗎？我必須告訴你們，我們將重申以當前歐元計算的成本要低於 2025 年和 2024 年的成本，好嗎？因為——我們看到，從絕對意義上講，我們已經完成了，而且成本成長仍然低於收入成長，這對這個集團來說非常重要。記住，下巴要隨時保持正面。

Underpinning the confidence in delivering the positive operating leverage that we are creating through ONE Transformation. Remember, ONE Transformation is all about increasing revenues and decreasing costs, and that basically creates the operating leverage that we are working for.

鞏固了我們對透過 ONE Transformation 實現積極營運槓桿的信心。記住，ONE Transformation 的全部意義在於增加收入和降低成本，而這基本上創造了我們正在努力實現的營運槓桿。

Short-term costs are higher as we continue to investing in the global platforms, as I explained you I mean Mexico, even though we had the migration this weekend, I mean, the mainframe is still basically consuming MIPS because we want to keep this in parallel until we stabilize Gravity.

短期成本較高，因為我們繼續投資於全球平台，正如我向你解釋的那樣，我指的是墨西哥，即使我們本週末進行了遷移，我的意思是，大型機仍然基本上消耗 MIPS，因為我們希望保持並行運行，直到 Gravity 穩定下來。

Once Gravity is stabilized, we start basically decreasing the amount of MIPS that we consume on the mainframe. By the way, then we start decreasing the cost that we have. So -- and we have the same in many different platforms, Alvero.

一旦 Gravity 穩定下來，我們就會開始逐步減少在大型主機上消耗的 MIPS 數量。順便說一下，然後我們開始降低成本。所以——我們在許多不同的平台上都有同樣的情況，Alvero。

So that's why I say that '26 is the most difficult year because that's where we are doing this transformation in which the global platforms are coming in, Gravity, Plard, Payments Hub, et cetera, and we still in parallel running those. By the way, you just getting into Mexico. Mexico is the worst one by far because Mexico is the one that we needed to upgrade the most and is the one that has most or platforms working on, they have in dual part for credit cards, and they have Pampa working at the same time what we're doing the migration.

所以這就是為什麼我說 2026 年是最艱難的一年，因為那一年我們正在進行轉型，全球平台紛紛湧入，例如 Gravity、Plard、Payments Hub 等等，而我們仍然在並行運行這些平台。對了，你剛進入墨西哥。墨西哥的情況最糟糕，因為墨西哥是我們最需要升級的國家，也是我們大部分平台都在運作的國家，他們有信用卡雙重系統，在我們進行遷移的同時，他們還在運行 Pampa 系統。

We have Gravity and the mainframe at the same time because we're doing the migration. We have in Payments Hub and transfer working at the same time because we're going to decommission transfer towards the end of the year.

由於我們正在進行遷移，所以同時擁有 Gravity 和大型主機。我們目前在支付中心和轉帳功能同時運行，因為我們將在年底前停用轉帳功能。

So you'll see that Mexico will start basically getting more -- I mean, in the level of our peers. And by the way, our only peers that you are talking about is (inaudible) and BBVA because the rest are further ahead from us in cost, we are much better. I mean I would say that we are a little better in average, but we need to get -- I couldn't agree more. We need to get to our peers, and that's exactly what we're working on.

所以你會看到，墨西哥基本上會開始變得更——我的意思是，達到我們同儕國家的水平。順便說一句，你提到的我們的同行只有（聽不清楚）和 BBVA，因為其他同行在成本方面都比我們領先很多，我們比他們好得多。我的意思是，我覺得我們的平均水平稍微好一些，但我們需要做得更好——我完全同意。我們需要與同儕交流，而這正是我們正在努力的方向。

And the same thing is I will tell you is Brazil, okay? So Brazil is going to be the same, but I mean, we implement, for example, Brazil just got the new version 24 of the global app that is coming in. It's the first country to do so. We already have 1 million customers migrated, but we need to migrate 60 million customers at the end. So this takes time. But nevertheless, we are also at the same time because we're doing the simplification and the automation we've been able to maintain cost.

同樣的事情我還要告訴你，那就是巴西，好嗎？所以巴西的情況也是一樣，但我的意思是，例如，我們實施的巴西剛剛獲得了即將推出的全球應用程式的新版本 24。它是第一個這樣做的國家。我們已經遷移了 100 萬客戶，但最終還需要遷移 6,000 萬客戶。所以需要時間。但同時，由於我們進行了簡化和自動化，我們也得以控製成本。

And you were asking precisely about what's going in retail and commercial, which is a really good question. How are we basically doing to decrease cost in retail and commercial at the same time we're doing this deployment is because in retail and commercial, we are doing interesting things in terms of basically concentrated on simplification.

你剛才問的正是零售和商業領域正在發生的事情，這是一個很好的問題。我們之所以在進行這項部署的同時降低零售和商業成本，是因為在零售和商業領域，我們正在做一些有趣的事情，主要集中在簡化方面。

You take a look at the number of products that we had two years ago, it was over 10,000 products. Just to give you an example, 200 different credit cards in Brazil were down to 17 different credit cards in Brazil. Motor in Mexico, we have 17 different types of mortgages in Mexico, were down three.

你看看我們兩年前的產品數量，超過 10,000 種產品。舉個例子，巴西原本有 200 種不同的信用卡，現在只剩下 17 種了。在墨西哥，汽車抵押貸款有 17 種不同的類型，我們減少了三種。

So the amount of things are going, the important thing is basically change the legacy on the back of the bank. That's where the big job is being taken on in terms of simplifying all the legacy that we have, and that's a huge amount of costs. Sorry to extend myself at it's very important that you understand what ONE Transformation is all about. It's not just about the platforms. It's a lot about simplification and automation of processes, which really change exactly what we're doing.

所以，很多事情正在發生，但最重要的是改變銀行背後的歷史遺產。簡化我們所有的遺留系統是一項艱鉅的任務，而這需要投入大量的成本。抱歉佔用您這麼多時間，但您理解「ONE Transformation」的全部意義非常重要。這不僅僅是關乎平台。它很大程度上是關於流程的簡化和自動化，這確實改變了我們正在做的事情。

So I'm confident that '26, even though it's a tough year in terms of everything that I'm explaining to you, we will be able to maintain cost flat or down in the group because that's exactly where we are concentrated, okay? So it's very important that you get that. I don't know if that basically answers all of your questions. If not, please let me know, and I will gladly give you all the details on that. But the thing is I mean, the amount of money that you save once that you're decommissioning and that's the most important part.

所以我相信，儘管2026年對於我剛才向你們解釋的一切來說都是艱難的一年，但我們仍然能夠保持集團成本持平或下降，因為這正是我們所集中精力的地方，好嗎？所以你一定要明白這一點。我不知道這是否基本解答了你所有的問題。如果不是，請告訴我，我很樂意向您提供所有細節。但關鍵在於，我的意思是，退休後你能省下多少錢，這才是最重要的。

The discipline on the commissioning, you really start to see the savings coming on, and you have seen it because there was no other way that we could be giving you this number in cost. If we were not really doing those commissions and being very disciplined about it.

調試過程中的嚴格執行，確實能帶來節省，因為除此之外，我們別無他法能把成本控制在這個範圍內。如果我們沒有認真完成那些委託項目，並且沒有嚴格遵守相關規定的話。

In terms of cost of risk in the US, first of all, it's important to what I was telling you. We continue to be the high exposure to pioneer near bank. If I'm correct, 38% of our book is prime and near prime, okay? As you say correctly, -- the amount of origination has come down significantly. We were at the peak about two years ago at around EUR35 billion in origination. We're down to EUR22 million, EUR23 million. And at the end of the year, it's going to be EUR24 billion in origination. The origination that we do in subprime and subprime is very well managed and it's not the same that the other player basically was doing.

就美國的風險成本而言，首先，這與我剛才跟你說的內容密切相關。我們繼續保持對銀行附近先鋒企業的高敞口。如果我沒記錯的話，我們書庫中有 38% 是優質或近優質圖書，可以嗎？正如你所說，——貸款發放量已經大幅下降。大約兩年前，我們的貸款發放量達到了峰值，約 350 億歐元。我們現在只剩下2200萬歐元、2300萬歐元了。到年底，貸款發放額將達到 240 億歐元。我們在次級貸款領域的業務開展得非常順利，這與另一家公司之前開展的業務截然不同。

As you say, we never get into -- with undocumented customers. So it's a completely different model than the one we have. So what you see is what Jose explained in his presentation that we see that even 30 days and 60 days delinquencies normalize in 90 days is still below what we expected. So we expect less provisions even in the fourth quarter from the US auto business because of that.

正如你所說，我們從來不會與沒有身份證明的客戶打交道。所以它和我們現有的模型完全不同。所以，正如 Jose 在他的演講中所解釋的那樣，我們看到，即使是 30 天和 60 天的逾期率，在 90 天內恢復正常，仍然低於我們的預期。因此，我們預計即使在第四季度，美國汽車產業的撥備也會減少。

So I don't want to give you an exact figure because I mean you never know what happens towards the end. But we see, nonetheless, that the labor market is still strong. up 2% year-on-year even though it has decreased a little bit in the past three, four months, but nothing to concern us. And the customers, what's happening after 90 days is that they want to keep their auto because they know that it's going to be much more expensive to go out into the market. So that's why 90-day delinquencies, people are basically coming back to us and renegotiating because they want to keep their outdoors. So I don't know if that basically answers your question, Jose, I don't know if I left anything out.

所以我不想給你一個確切的數字，因為你永遠不知道最後會發生什麼。但我們看到，勞動市場依然強勁，年增2%，儘管過去三、四個月略有下降，但這沒什麼值得擔憂的。90 天后，顧客會想要保留他們的汽車，因為他們知道重新進入市場購買新車會貴得多。所以，對於拖欠 90 天租金的情況，人們基本上都會回來和我們重新協商，因為他們想保留他們的戶外空間。所以，何塞，我不知道這是否基本上回答了你的問題，也不知道我是否遺漏了什麼。

Just again, in terms of cost of risk, the second half tends to be worse than the first half. But when you look -- when you compare quarter-on-quarter, '26 against -- sorry, '25 against '24, the numbers are coming in better every single quarter. We had last year. So in the third quarter, last year, cost of risk was EUR185 million it is EUR169 million in the third quarter of this year in the US. Remember, at the beginning of the year, we guided for cost of risk slightly above 2%. Today, we see cost of risk in the US below 2% in 2025. So actually better than we expected.

再說一遍，就風險成本而言，後半段往往比前半段更糟。但是，當你逐季度比較時——例如 2026 年與 2025 年與 2024 年——抱歉，是 2025 年與 2024 年——你會發現，每個季度的數字都在好轉。我們去年就是這樣。因此，去年第三季度，美國的風險成本為 1.85 億歐元，而今年第三季為 1.69 億歐元。請記住，年初時，我們曾預期風險成本略高於 2%。今天，我們預計到 2025 年，美國的風險成本將低於 2%。實際上比我們預期的要好。

Again, knowing that there is some seasonality in the second half, but the numbers should be better. And just to give you a bit of more details on what just said, when we look at loans past due over 60 days, and if we look at the last 10 years, this number four non-prime has moved between 4% to 8%. And we are within that range at the moment. So it's not by any means -- it has been going up recently, but it's within the range that we've seen in the last 10 years. When we look at prime, for instance, over 60 days, it's below 3%, and again, this figure has been moving a bit higher, lower than 2% for the last 10 years.

再次強調，下半年會有一些季節性因素，但數據應該會好轉。為了更詳細地說明剛才所說的，當我們查看逾期超過 60 天的貸款，並且查看過去 10 年的數據時，這個排名第四的非優質貸款比例在 4% 到 8% 之間波動。目前我們正處於這個範圍內。所以，儘管最近有所上漲，但仍然在我們過去 10 年所看到的範圍內。例如，當我們觀察優質房源時，60 天的房源佔比低於 3%，而且，在過去 10 年裡，這個數字一直在略微上升，低於 2%。

So very much normalized. It's true that in the last couple of quarters, we've seen some increase in this ratio, but this is not translated into losses because the recovery rates remain very robust. So when we look at actual losses, net loss in prime, it's basically below 3%, which is much better probably than we saw, for instance, during the period of 2010 to 2020 or 2019. And if we look at non-prime, losses are below 7%, which is the best we've seen, excluding the post-COVID period, these are the better numbers, the best numbers that we've seen in many, many years. So net-net, actually very normal behavior is what we see in the US.

已經非常正常化了。確實，在過去的幾個季度裡，我們看到這個比例有所上升，但這並沒有轉化為損失，因為回收率仍然非常強勁。因此，當我們查看實際虧損，主要業務淨虧損時，基本上低於 3%，這可能比我們在 2010 年至 2020 年或 2019 年期間看到的情況要好得多。如果我們看一下非優質貸款，損失低於 7%，這是我們見過的最好的情況，不包括新冠疫情後的時期，這些數字更好，是我們多年來見過的最好的數字。所以總的來說，我們在美國看到的其實是非常正常的行為。

Thanks very much. Can we have the next question, please.

非常感謝。請問下一個問題可以嗎？

Carlos Peixoto, CaixaBank BPI.

卡洛斯‧佩索托 (Carlos Peixoto)，CaixaBank BPI。

Yes. Hello, good morning. First question would actually be regarding the first brand in the US. So there was this press report over previously this month regarding some engagement with Jefferies and the possibility Santander being involved in the refinancing of first I was just trying to understand here. whether there is any relevant exposure? Or do you see this as a risk for the group?

是的。你好早安。第一個問題其實是關於美國第一個品牌的。所以，本月稍早有一篇新聞報告提到傑富瑞集團與桑坦德銀行有接觸，桑坦德銀行可能參與第一銀行的再融資計畫。我只是想了解一下，這其中是否有任何相關的風險敞口？還是你認為這對團隊來說是一種風險？

The second question would actually be focused on the corporate tax rate. So how you see -- what should we expect in terms of the overall corporate tax rate in the full year or in the fourth quarter if you prefer for the group as a whole, but focusing as well on Brazil, we had this quarter a low tax rate given the interest payments on capital. Should we see a similar effect in the fourth quarter? Or should we see it reverting back to the previous levels now in the fourth Q. Thank you very much.

第二個問題其實會集中在企業稅率。那麼，您認為－我們應該對全年或第四季（如果您願意的話）集團整體的整體企業稅率抱有怎樣的預期？但同時，也請關注巴西，鑑於本季資本利息支出，我們的稅率較低。第四季是否會出現類似情況？或者我們是否應該看到它在第四季度恢復到之前的水平？非常感謝。

Thank you, Carlos. I must tell you in terms of first runs. As you know, we don't discuss customers. What I can tell you is that whatever we have is not material for the group at all.

謝謝你，卡洛斯。我必須就第一次運行的情況告訴你。如您所知，我們不討論客戶。我可以告訴你的是，我們所擁有的任何東西對這個團體來說都毫無意義。

Tax rate. Yes, the tax rate for the group in the first nine months of the year was 26.6%, which basically it's -- in Spain, it was 37.5% excluding Spain, 24.1%. This is a little bit better, not significantly but we anticipated. There are two reasons for this. In the US, tax rate is 10%.

稅率。是的，該集團今年前九個月的稅率為 26.6%，這基本上相當於——在西班牙，稅率為 37.5%，不包括西班牙則為 24.1%。這比之前好一些，雖然不是很明顯，但也在我們的預料之中。原因有二。在美國，稅率為10%。

Remember that we said that when the EV vehicles, the aid program finalizes and the tax rate would normalize gradually, and we thought that it would normalize faster than it is normalizing. So actually, the tax rate is lower in the US than we thought, slightly lower in Brazil, nothing significant. So for year-end, we would expect the tax rate to be around the same level it is today, 27%.

請記住，我們曾說過，當電動車援助計畫最終確定，稅率將逐步恢復正常時，我們認為恢復正常的速度會比現在恢復正常的速度更快。所以實際上，美國的稅率比我們想像的要低，巴西的稅率略低一些，但差異不大。因此，我們預計年底的稅率將與目前的水平大致相同，為 27%。

Thanks very much, Jose. Can we have the next question.

非常感謝，何塞。下一個問題可以開始了。

Britta Schmidt, Autonomous.

布里塔·施密特，自主。

Yeah, hi there. Thank you for taking my questions. A couple of follow-ups on credit, please. in Mexico, I think there's some comments on model updates and higher SME provisions. Can you help us disentangle these two? What was the impact of the model updates? And what are you seeing in terms of the SME pressure? And do you expect that to continue or get worse?

你好。謝謝您回答我的問題。關於信貸方面，還有幾個後續問題。在墨西哥，我認為有一些關於模型更新和提高中小企業撥備的評論。你能幫我們理清這兩個問題嗎？模型更新產生了哪些影響？那麼，您認為中小企業面臨的壓力如何？你認為這種情況會持續下去還是會惡化？

In Brazil, there were also some selected issues in the corporate world. Can you maybe comment whether you've got any exposure here and whether you still feel happy with the provision that you built in the last quarter? And then lastly, Argentina came in quite high as well. Is this only lending or there also impacts in potentially the bond portfolio? And maybe you can share with us a little bit as to what you expect for Argentina in the coming quarters with regards to results, hyperinflation and also FX developments. Thank you.

在巴西，企業界也出現了一些特定問題。您能否談談您在這方面是否有任何投資，以及您是否仍然對上個季度建立的撥備感到滿意？最後，阿根廷的排名也相當高。這僅僅是貸款業務，還是也可能對債券投資組合產生影響？或許您可以和我們分享一下您對阿根廷未來幾季的經濟表現、惡性通貨膨脹以及外匯走勢的預期。謝謝。

Thank you, Britta. I will address the questions on Brazil and Argentina, and then Jose will tell you a little bit. I mean, what's going on. But let me tell you that in Mexico, I mean, the portfolios are performing really well. We have had some of the model updates anything, but nothing that hits capital in then. And SMEs basically, actually, we're growing in the segment because we have really good -- so I can tell you that we're going to be for that, but Jose will give you better details.

謝謝你，布里塔。我會回答有關巴西和阿根廷的問題，然後何塞會簡單介紹一下。我的意思是，到底發生了什麼事？但我要告訴你，在墨西哥，我的意思是，投資組合的表現非常好。我們已經進行了一些模型更新，但沒有任何更新會對資本造成影響。實際上，中小企業方面，我們在這個領域正在成長，因為我們擁有非常好的——所以我可以告訴你，我們將致力於此，但 Jose 會給你更詳細的資訊。

In terms of Brazil corporates, I can tell you, we have taken a deeper look on the portfolio because with 10% real rates, corporate software in that environment. So we have reviewed the portfolio in detail. We have actually understood and located exactly where the problems are, and we're working on them. But I don't see any significant situations on the portfolio up to this point.

就巴西企業而言，我可以告訴你，我們已經對投資組合進行了更深入的研究，因為在 10% 的實際利率下，企業軟體在這種環境下非常受歡迎。我們已經詳細審查了投資組合。我們已經了解並找到了問題的確切所在，目前正在努力解決。但到目前為止，我還沒有看到投資組合中出現任何重大問題。

All of them are under control, and they were taken -- we're really taking care of them. So on the corporate side, and we don't have anything material that would be a material impact for the group, at least on the next months, okay? But I don't foresee it because even the situation, as I said, Brazil is growing 2%. So in that sense, the economy is still growing.

他們全部都在控制之中，他們已經被帶走了——我們正在好好照顧他們。所以從公司方面來看，至少在接下來的幾個月裡，我們沒有任何會對集團產生實質影響的實質事件，好嗎？但我並不認為這種情況會發生，因為即使在目前這種情況下，正如我所說，巴西的經濟成長率也達到了 2%。從這個意義上講，經濟仍在成長。

Argentina, it's an interesting story. I actually was in Argentina and I was in Brazil a couple of months ago. And what I can tell you is the situation is complicated. In one sense, it's complicated because as you know, inflation is at around the levels between 25% to 30%, and that's where the year is going to end. Rates, because the government has really, I would say, basically, there is no pesos to lend in Argentina, okay? So the government is squeezing pesos out to really decrease inflation in a strong way.

阿根廷，那是一個有趣的故事。幾個月前，我去過阿根廷，也去過巴西。我可以告訴你的是，情況很複雜。從某種意義上說，情況很複雜，因為如你所知，通貨膨脹率在 25% 到 30% 左右，而今年年底的通貨膨脹率也將維持在這個水平。利率方面，因為政府實際上，可以說，基本上，阿根廷沒有比索可以藉出去，好嗎？因此，政府正在透過大幅壓低比索匯率來強有力地降低通貨膨脹。

So that basically that has basically taken rates to real rates to levels that are tremendously high. So what you see in Argentina happening is that the cost of risk is growing tremendously hard. So we've been very cautious in Argentina because of that. I mean cost of risk in Argentina were almost to the level of 7%. And that's why, I mean, with real rates at these levels, is really impossible to make money with 60 points of real rates.

所以基本上，這已經把實際利率推到了極高的水平。所以，在阿根廷，我們看到的是風險成本正在急遽上升。正因如此，我們在阿根廷一直非常謹慎。我的意思是，阿根廷的風險成本幾乎達到了 7%。所以，我的意思是，在目前的實際利率水準下，60 個百分點的實際利率真的不可能賺錢。

So what we've been doing is being very cautious. We basically been the only lending that we're doing in Argentina is to exporters in dollars. That's the majority thing and energy -- I mean, and energy companies. So we're basically volume situations in, where there is a lot of opportunities and the portfolio is basically going very well. But I must tell you, to lend in pesos in Argentina in this market today is hard because of the real rates.

所以我們一直都非常謹慎。我們在阿根廷基本上只向出口商提供美元貸款。這是大多數事情，還有能源——我的意思是，還有能源公司。所以我們現在基本上處於交易量較大的情況，有很多機會，而且投資組合基本上進展順利。但我必須告訴你，由於實際利率的原因，如今在阿根廷用比索放貸非常困難。

So hopefully, let's see what the government does with his victory that they just had. They had a pretty good rally. The peso appreciated a little bit. So hopefully, let's see that there is a little bit on the economy. The rates -- real rates start to come down, and we see a much better next few months. But today, we are being very cautious in the way we manage credit in Argentina.

所以，讓我們拭目以待，看看政府會如何利用他剛剛取得的勝利。他們打出了一場相當不錯的反擊。比索略微升值。所以，希望我們能看到一些關於經濟方面的消息。實際利率開始下降，我們預計未來幾個月情況會好得多。但如今，我們在阿根廷的信貸管理方面非常謹慎。

Mexico, yes, we've updated the models, the provisioning models and some capital models. The consequence is that without really seeing any significant deterioration in real asset quality, there's been a movement from Stage 2 to Stage 3. So it's around 10% of the Stage 2 loans moved into Stage 3.

墨西哥，是的，我們已經更新了模型、撥備模型和一些資本模型。結果是，在實際資產品質沒有任何重大惡化的情況下，已經從第二階段過渡到了第三階段。因此，大約有 10% 的第二階段貸款進入了第三階段。

But is the consequence of the model, not that the actual deterioration was taking place. In any case, cost of risk in the third quarter is still below 3%. In the third quarter alone, if we look at the last 12 months, cost of risk at 2.6%, below 3%. And remember, at the beginning of the year that we said cost of risk in Mexico would not go above 3%. It's actually quite well below 3% because the overall performance is pretty good. But in this quarter, in particular, again, is this technical change from Stage 2 to Stage 3.

但這只是模型的後果，而不是實際上發生了惡化。無論如何，第三季的風險成本仍然低於 3%。僅第三季度，如果我們回顧過去 12 個月，風險成本為 2.6%，低於 3%。請記住，年初我們曾說過，墨西哥的風險成本不會超過 3%。實際上遠低於 3%，因為整體性能相當不錯。但在本季度，尤其再次出現了從第二階段到第三階段的技術變化。

Thanks very much. Could we have the next question, please?

非常感謝。請問下一個問題可以嗎？

Pablo de la Torre Cuevas, RBC.

巴勃羅·德拉·托雷·奎瓦斯，RBC。

(inaudible) your thoughts on the deposit for the UK into the next year. One of your peers talked about muted deposit growth in 2026, and another has spoken of elevated competition in term deposits. Just interested in your thoughts there as deposit growth has been a big driver of top line growth over the last couple of years for UK banks.

（聽不清楚）您對英國明年存款的看法。一位同行談到 2026 年存款成長放緩，另一位同行則談到定期存款市場競爭加劇。我很想聽聽你的看法，因為在過去幾年裡，存款成長一直是英國銀行業營收成長的主要驅動力。

And then if we translate that into UK NIM directionally and excluding TSB, would you expect underlying UK NIM to grow as much in 2026 as it has been in 2025 driven by that structural hedge repricing. Thank you.

然後，如果我們把這個結果轉化成英國的淨利差，並且排除 TSB，您是否預期在結構性對沖重新定價的推動下，2026 年英國淨利差的增長幅度會和 2025 年一樣大？謝謝。

So structural hedge right now is EUR106 billion, a 2.7% yield, and 2.5 years of duration. So this should have positive contribution to NII next year. Second comment, we expect rates to go down from 4 to 3.5 by year-end next year. It could go down even -- there could be even three cuts, but we believe that we give today more probability to two cuts.

因此，目前的結構性對沖規模為 1,060 億歐元，收益率為 2.7%，期限為 2.5 年。因此，這應該會對明年的NII產生正面影響。第二點，我們預計到明年年底利率將從 4 降至 3.5。甚至可能出現三輪裁員，但我們認為今天兩輪裁員的可能性更大。

Volumes should be up next year. So overall, we would expect NII to actually increase in the UK in 2026, excluding TSB, of course. And we are talking low to mid-single digits increase in NII.

明年銷量應該會上升。因此，總體而言，我們預計英國的淨利息收入（NII）在 2026 年實際上會增加，當然，TSB 除外。我們說的是淨利息收入（NII）的個位數成長。

Thanks very much, Jose, then hopefully, to answer your question, but we can take it offline if you've got any further details on deposits outstanding. Could we have the next question, please?

非常感謝 Jose，希望我的回答能幫到您。如果您還有關於未結存款的更多細節，我們可以私下討論。請問下一個問題可以嗎？

Borja Ramirez, Citi.

博爾哈·拉米雷斯，花旗集團。

Hello. Good morning. Thank you very much for taking my questions. I have two. Firstly, on capital, I believe it may have been mentioned that in Q4, it's generally more intensive in terms of the So I would like to ask if you could provide any details on the capital benefit that we may see in Q4 linked to SRT.

你好。早安.非常感謝您回答我的問題。我有兩個。首先，關於資本方面，我相信之前可能提到過，第四季通常會更加密集。所以我想請問您能否提供一些關於我們在第四季度可能看到的與SRT相關的資本收益的詳細資訊。

And then my second question would be on other provisions. If I understood well, it was mentioned that other provisions would be around EUR3 billion for 2025 given that you have booked EUR2.5 billion in the nine months, this seems to imply EUR0.5 billion for Q4. So I would like to ask if my numbers are correct, of course, if -- what are the assumptions on provisions? Thank you.

那麼我的第二個問題是關於其他條款的。如果我理解正確的話，提到 2025 年的其他準備金約為 30 億歐元，因為你們在過去九個月中已經計提了 25 億歐元，這似乎意味著第四季度需要計提 5 億歐元。所以我想問我的數字是否正確，當然，前提是──關於準備金的假設是什麼？謝謝。

Thank you, Borja. The first one, yes, the fourth quarter is the most active in risk-weighted asset mobilization initiatives. And as a consequence, we would expect net risk-weighted asset growth to be close to zero in the fourth quarter. It was slightly positive in the third quarter. We have gross risk-weighted assets up EUR11 billion and asset mobilization initiatives between EUR7 billion to EUR8 billion in the third quarter.

謝謝你，博爾哈。沒錯，第四季是風險加權資產調動計畫最活躍的時期。因此，我們預計第四季度淨風險加權資產成長將接近零。第三季略有好轉。第三季度，我們的風險加權總資產增加了 110 億歐元，資產調動計畫規模在 70 億歐元至 80 億歐元之間。

So the fourth quarter the net gain from SRTs, which, by the way, is not the only way we are mobilizing capital. In the third quarter, we mobilized as much by asset sales as securitizations and also we had some hedges. So we are using different tools to optimize the capital and increase the capital productivity. So putting all this together, against this weighted asset growth in the fourth quarter, it should be very, very close to zero.

因此，第四季度來自 SRT 的淨收益，順便說一句，這並不是我們籌集資金的唯一途徑。第三季度，我們透過出售資產和證券化等方式籌集資金，也進行了一些對沖。因此，我們正在使用不同的工具來優化資本並提高資本生產力。因此，綜合所有這些因素，與第四季度的加權資產成長率相比，應該非常非常接近零。

Your second question, when you speak about other provisions, I presume that you're talking about the results, so the line below provisions. And yes, this line should be substantially lower than last year because of the one-offs that we had last year and because the banking tax in Spain last year was accounted for in the results now is in the tax line. And yes, we would expect this line to be a bit higher than EUR3 billion in the year. EUR3 billion, EUR3.2 billion is the reasonable number.

你的第二個問題，當你談到其他條款時，我假設你指的是結果，也就是條款下面的那一行。是的，由於去年的一些特殊情況，以及去年西班牙的銀行稅計入了業績，現在計入了稅收項，因此這條線應該比去年大幅下降。是的，我們預計今年的數字會略高於 30 億歐元。30億歐元，32億歐元是比較合理的數字。

In the absence of any substantial one-offs at this point, we do not envision. But in the absence of substantial one-offs. The answer is yes. And the reason is, excluding these one-offs, what is in this line is the labor cost in Brazil, operational risk, it tends to be a bit higher in the fourth quarter, but not to deviate a lot from, let's say, EUR3.2 billion for the year, again, excluding one-offs.

目前還沒有任何實質的一次性事件發生，因此我們不作任何設想。但如果沒有重大的一次性事件。答案是肯定的。原因在於，撇開這些一次性因素不談，這部分內容包含了巴西的勞動力成本和營運風險，第四季度往往會略高一些，但不會與全年的 32 億歐元（同樣，不包括一次性因素）有太大偏差。

Thanks Borja. Could we have the next question please?

謝謝你，博爾哈。請問下一個問題可以嗎？

Andrea Filtri, Mediobanca.

Andrea Filtri，Mediobanca。

Thank you for taking my question. The first is a bit of a back of the envelope. Your 16.5% RoTE target discounts around EUR13.6 billion profits in 2025, which would only imply EUR3.3 billion left for Q4 '25, which would be a deceleration quarter-on-quarter, while your RoTE guidance implies a marked acceleration in Q4, so which of the two is right?

感謝您回答我的問題。第一個方法有點像是粗略估算。您設定的 16.5% 的 RoTE 目標折現了 2025 年約 136 億歐元的利潤，這意味著 2025 年第四季度僅剩下 33 億歐元，環比增速放緩；而您的 RoTE 指引則暗示第四季度增速將顯著加快，那麼這兩者才是哪個正確的呢？

And second question, more conceptual on insurance and the Danish compromise. You have made statements prior on the intention to gain Danish compromise like benefits at Santander. Could you elaborate a little bit how you intend to do that? And what sort of benefit you could get? Thank you.

第二個問題，更偏向概念性地討論保險和丹麥式妥協。你之前曾發表過聲明，表示有意在桑坦德銀行獲得類似丹麥妥協方案的利益。您能否詳細說明一下您打算如何做到這一點？你能獲得什麼樣的好處？謝謝。

Okay, Andrea. First of all, and I know you're very right, probably brighter than me, but you need to really do your numbers because for me, actually, the numbers shall be going up. So that will be my comment on that one.

好的，安德莉亞​​。首先，我知道你說的很對，你可能比我聰明，但你真的需要好好算賬，因為對我來說，實際上，數字會上升的。這就是我對這件事的看法。

In terms of -- okay, in terms of insurance on what we're doing with Danish compromise, the only thing I could say is we have formally approved -- I mean, sorry, applied with ECB for enhanced supervision, and that's the only thing that I could discuss at this point. And let's see what the ECB decides and if they give us enhanced provision, that will give us basically the trend to see the following path or the following steps. Thank you.

至於——好吧，關於我們與丹麥達成妥協的保障措施，我唯一能說的是，我們已經正式批准——我是說，抱歉，是向歐洲央行申請加強監管，而這正是我現在唯一能討論的事情。讓我們看看歐洲央行會做出什麼決定，如果他們增加撥備，這基本上將決定接下來的發展方向或步驟。謝謝。

Yeah, Andrea. The post-AT1, 16.5% would be slightly higher than your numbers, but we're very happy to give you a call after the -- after and take you through the details. Could we have the next question please, operator?

是的，安德烈亞。AT1 之後的 16.5% 會比您的數字略高，但我們非常樂意在之後給您打電話，並向您詳細介紹。接線員，請問下一個問題是？

Ignacio Cerezo, UBS.

瑞銀集團的伊格納西奧·塞雷佐。

Yeah, hi. Good morning, and thank you for taking my questions. First one is -- if you can give some color on any excess capital above the 13% by the end of the year, if that is going to be used for incremental capital return or there's going to be some uses of the capital, I think potentially restructuring costs, for example?

嗨，你好。早上好，感謝您回答我的問題。第一個問題是——如果您能詳細說明年底前超過 13% 的任何超額資本，這些資本是將用於增加資本回報，還是將用於其他用途，例如可能用於重組成本？

And then the second one is on the payout mix between cash and buybacks considering higher share prices and lower profitability of buying back stock, if you think it makes sense conceptually to be moving towards the cash dividend component basically of the payout mix in the future? Thank you.

第二個問題是，考慮股價上漲和股票回購獲利能力下降，現金股利和股票回購之間的分紅比例是否合理？您是否認為，從概念上講，未來分紅比例應該更多地轉向現金分紅？謝謝。

As you know, we have a very strict capital here, okay? First of all, as we have said, we're going to prioritize organic profitable growth. Second, we're going to follow it by ordinary distribution. Then we do any bolt-on acquisitions that must be complementary and to generate attractive financial returns. And those need to surpass those of any organic investments or buybacks, okay?

如你所知，我們這裡的資本管理非常嚴格，好嗎？首先，正如我們所說，我們將優先考慮有機獲利成長。其次，我們將按照普通分佈進行追蹤。然後，我們會進行一些補充性收購，這些收購必須是互補性的，並且能夠產生可觀的財務回報。而這些收益必須超過任何有機投資或股票回購的收益，懂嗎？

So I believe that at this point, we feel very comfortable with the capital levels that we have and the capital allocation framework has been fundamental pillar of the strategy as you have seen, and we will continue the disciplined and strict capital approach that we have had to capital, all right? So in that sense.

因此，我認為目前我們對自身的資本水準感到非常滿意，正如您所看到的，資本配置框架一直是該策略的根本支柱，我們將繼續採取我們一直以來所奉行的嚴謹的資本管理方式，好嗎？從這個意義上。

Then I will ask Jose basically to give you more details on the buybacks.

然後我會請何塞向你詳細介紹回購事宜。

So this is a very interesting intellectual and financial discussion because you have all types of technical papers written on this matter. But the way we see this, and obviously, this is for the Board to decide, and it will decide in the Board of Directors that will take place in December about the dividend policy for next year. But the way we see that or I see that, is that when you are looking at improving profitability going forward.

所以這是一個非常有趣的學術和金融方面的討論，因為關於這個問題已經有很多技術論文發表了。但我們認為，這顯然應該由董事會決定，董事會將在 12 月的董事會上決定明年的股利政策。但我們認為，或者說我認為，當你著眼於提高未來的獲利能力時。

And when you are looking at a cost of capital that is at worst stable, probably improving, and then you have growth, high single-digit growth, buying back shares is still a very good value proposition. Obviously, the new business is being written at a return on tangible equity, as I said, of 22%.

當資本成本至少保持穩定，甚至可能有所改善，並且還有高個位數的成長時，回購股票仍然是一個非常好的價值主張。顯然，正如我所說，這項新業務的有形權益回報率為 22%。

That is the first and most important use of our capital, but there's not an infinite amount of capital that we can put to work at 22%. So once we have covered that bucket, buying back shares, again, when you're looking at improving profitability, stable lower cost of capital and growth in profits, is still a very good value proposition for shareholders.

這是資本的首要和最重要的用途，但我們不可能有無限的資本以 22% 的利率投入使用。因此，一旦我們解決了這個問題，回購股票，尤其是在考慮提高獲利能力、降低資本成本和實現利潤成長的情況下，對股東來說仍然是一個非常好的價值主張。

More details to come next year Ignacio, hope you'll understand. We've got two more questions left. Could we go next question, operator?

伊格納西奧，明年會公佈更多細節，希望你能理解。我們還剩下兩個問題。操作員，我們可以問下一個問題嗎？

Fernando Gil De Santivanes, Intesa Sanpaolo.

費爾南多·吉爾·德桑蒂瓦內斯，聯合聖保羅銀行。

Hi, thank you for taking my questions. Can you hear me, okay?

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。你聽得到我說話嗎？

Go ahead.

前進。

Okay. First question, a follow-up in Spain. Regarding the repricing on rates, are we done in the repricing and what is the bank risk appetite going forward regarding the actual pricing trends, no needs? And the second question is on DCB Europe. I see the NII up 13% year-on-year, 5% Q-on-Q. What is driving these upgrades? And can you comment what is what should we expect going forward? Thank you.

好的。第一個問題，在西班牙的後續報導。關於利率重新定價，我們是否已經完成了重新定價？對於未來的實際定價趨勢，銀行的風險承受能力如何？是否沒有必要進行重新定價？第二個問題是關於 DCB 歐洲的。我預計淨利息收入年增 13%，季增 5%。推動這些升級的因素是什麼？您能否談談我們未來該期待些什麼？謝謝。

Look, in terms of Spain, what I tell you, I mean, it's a very competitive market, as you know. We have rates in -- even with Spanish bond the 330, we have mortgages down, and we have seen 190s, 175s, I think that the market as being irrational in that point. So hopefully, there is some rationality in the months to come, and we see rates at much better levels, and we have been very disciplined and very focused on profitability, and we will continue to do so even if we lose a little bit of market share that you have seen that we have lost a little bit of market share because of that discipline.

就西班牙市場而言，我的意思是，如你所知，這是一個競爭非常激烈的市場。我們已經看到利率——即使西班牙國債利率為 330，抵押貸款利率也下降了，我們看到利率降至 190、175，我認為在這一點上，市場是不理性的。所以，希望未來幾個月市場能夠回歸理性，利率能夠達到更好的水平。我們一直非常自律，非常注重獲利能力，即使因此損失一些市場份額，我們也會繼續這樣做。正如你們所看到的，由於這種自律，我們確實損失了一些市場份額。

So we don't believe that mortgages at today at 175 makes sense to do in the bank. So we won't do them. And exactly when the price -- and when there is a lot of competition on the high-risk name in the corporate side, et cetera, we're going to maintain our level of risk reward that we believe is the right one. So we will continue and we will put a lot of discipline in that sense. In terms of what we see in terms of DCB, give me one second. But look, I mean, in global DCB, first of all, it is important to say that we are improving the RoTE from 24 to 10.4 post AT1s in '25. So it's important.

因此，我們認為目前175%的抵押貸款在銀行辦理並不划算。所以我們不會做這些事。當價格—以及當企業界等高風險股票競爭激烈時，我們將維持我們認為合適的風險回報水準。所以我們會繼續這樣做，並且會在這方面投入很多精力。關於DCB方面的情況，請稍等片刻。但你看，我的意思是，就全球DCB而言，首先，重要的是要說，我們在2025年AT1之後將RoTE從24提高到了10.4。所以這很重要。

Part of the improvement is explained by the lower conduct basically of charges that we had. Remember, on the Swiss francs, mainly in Poland, but the underlying attributable profit is growing at 6%. So that basically is positive. NII is growing 6% year-on-year. That's well above credit, which is up 2% and is benefiting for the focus on profitability, as we have said.

部分業績改善可歸因於我們收取的費用減少。請記住，這些費用主要以瑞士法郎計價，尤其是在波蘭，但基本歸屬利潤仍增加了6%。所以這基本上是積極的。NII年增6%。這遠高於信貸水平，信貸水平上漲了 2%，正如我們所說，信貸水平受益於對盈利能力的關注。

The yields on loans have improved 25 basis points and the cost of deposits has come down by 39 basis points. As you know, in this business, we are sensitive to higher rates, negative sensitivity to higher rates when rates start to come down, we have much better margins. And also, it's important to say that we have improving credit quality. The cost of risk is down for 201. That's less than basis points versus Q3.

貸款收益率提高了 25 個基點，存款成本下降了 39 個基點。如您所知，在這個行業，我們對高利率很敏感，對高利率則不太敏感；當利率開始下降時，我們的利潤率會更高。另外，值得一提的是，我們的信貸品質正在提高。201 年的風險成本下降了。與第三季相比，這比上一季少了不到幾個基點。

And 12 months cost of risk is at 206, down 3 basis points quarter-on-quarter, and we have excellent performance that we have, as we have said, our strategy is to expand the deposit gathering capabilities to Openbank. It has -- as you know, it has been a success. We are doing that in Germany. And also, as we have announced, we are merging Openbank and DCB Europe that basically will enable us to basically have much more control, better management and the deposits close to the origination of the assets. So that basically would be a help to have much better margins, much better in operation and also much better cost.

12 個月的風險成本為 206，季減 3 個基點，我們取得了優異的表現。正如我們所說，我們的策略是將存款募集能力擴展到 Openbank。正如你所知，它取得了成功。我們在德國也這樣做。此外，正如我們所宣布的那樣，我們將合併 Openbank 和 DCB Europe，這將使我們能夠更好地控制、管理存款，並使存款更接近資產的來源。所以，這基本上有助於獲得更高的利潤率、更好的營運效率和更低的成本。

Thanks very much. Could we have the last question, please?

非常感謝。最後一個問題可以問嗎？

Miruna Chirea, Jefferies

米魯娜‧奇雷亞，傑富瑞

Hello, thank you very much for taking my question. I just had a quick one, please, on Openbank. I was wondering how your progress in Openbank is going in Mexico and in the US. If you could give us maybe an update in terms of the balance of deposits that you've raised in those markets since you launched?

您好，非常感謝您回答我的問題。我只是想快速了解Openbank的情況。我想了解一下您在墨西哥和美國開展的 Openbank 專案進度如何。能否請您更新一下自上線以來在這些市場籌集到的存款餘額情況？

And then secondly, to this point that you are making now on merging Openbank and Santander Consumer Finance in Europe. Could you give us just a bit more color on what kind of synergies could you see there by merging the two lines of business and the overall rationale for this? Thank you very much.

其次，關於您現在提出的歐洲 Openbank 和 Santander Consumer Finance 合併的問題。您能否更詳細地說明一下，您認為合併這兩條業務線會產生哪些綜效，以及這樣做的整體理由？非常感謝。

Thank you, Miruna. Okay. So Openbank Mexico and the US, this is basically -- I'm giving it to you from the back of my mind, if I'm correct, it's EUR6.5 billion in deposits on the two combined, if I remember correctly, and we're talking about 160,000 customers in the US. And in Mexico, I don't recall. I'll give you the sack number -- sorry, basically, I don't have it in front of me. We're trying to find out from you.

謝謝你，米魯娜。好的。所以，Openbank在墨西哥和美國的存款總額基本上是──如果我沒記錯的話，這兩個國家的存款總額是65億歐元，我們說的是美國16萬客戶。至於墨西哥，我不記得了。我會告訴你解僱編號——抱歉，我手邊沒有。我們正在努力從你那裡了解情況。

Let me -- in the meantime, let me discuss a little bit what's the rationale behind the merger that we're doing with Openbank and TSB. As you know, I mean, we've been operating in parallel. It's one unit, and we have one boss basically managing both of those businesses. At this point, I mean, we had two of everything because there were two separate institutions that basically will help us a lot in terms of cost because now we're going to have just one for both of them. So cost systems, et cetera.

讓我——與此同時，讓我稍微談談我們與 Openbank 和 TSB 合併的理由。如你所知，我們一直在並行運作。這是一個整體，我們只有一個老闆，基本上負責管理這兩個業務部門。我的意思是，目前我們所有東西都是兩份，因為有兩個獨立的機構，這在成本方面將對我們有很大的幫助，因為現在我們只需要一個機構就能滿足這兩個機構的需求。因此，成本系統等等。

So a lot of that is going to be a lot of synergies in that sense. But the most important synergy is the amount of deposits that we have in the bank that will be basically used to eliminate or try to eliminate as much negative sensitivity that we have when rates basically go up. When you have a sustainable deposit base that would basically help you out to match it to the assets and you have a much better planning if you have that.

所以從這個意義上講，很多方面都會產生協同效應。但最重要的綜效是，我們在銀行的存款金額將主要用於消除或盡可能消除利率上升時所面臨的負面敏感度。當你擁有可持續的存款基礎時，這基本上可以幫助你將其與資產相匹配，如果你有這樣的基礎，你的規劃會好得多。

Openbank, as you know, is the largest deposit base of an bank in Europe. We believe there's a huge opportunity to continue to like that and also will help us to upgrade our operations in Germany, which we have a really good deposit base there, and we would like to increase it and continue basically growing the business as we see fit.

如您所知，Openbank是歐洲最大的銀行存款基地。我們相信，繼續保持這種勢頭蘊藏著巨大的機遇，這也有助於我們提昇在德國的業務。我們在德國擁有非常良好的存款基礎，我們希望擴大存款規模，並根據自身情況繼續發展業務。

So all in all, I think that's going to be a pretty good combination. Yes, in the US, this is EUR5.1 billion in deposits, and we're talking about 162,000 new customers in Openbank. Thank you.

總而言之，我認為這將是一個相當不錯的組合。是的，在美國，這相當於 51 億歐元的存款，而且 Openbank 還新增了 16.2 萬名客戶。謝謝。

Thank you, Miruna. I think that we are out of questions. Thank you, everybody, for your time this morning. This concludes our analyst presentation, and we look forward to speaking to you soon. Have a good day.

謝謝你，米魯娜。我想我們已經沒有問題了。謝謝大家今天上午抽出時間。我們的分析師報告到此結束，期待盡快與您交流。祝你有美好的一天。