Banco Santander SA (SAN) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining Santander's 2025 Results Presentation. We are delighted to be joined by Executive Chair, Ana Botin; our CEO, Hector Grisi; and our CFO, Jose Garcia Cantera. We are going to have a short presentation with Ana leading the way. Ana, it's my pleasure to hand to you.

各位晚上好，感謝各位參加桑坦德銀行2025年業績發表會。我們很高興地宣布，執行主席 Ana Botin、執行長 Hector Grisi 和財務長 Jose Garcia Cantera 將加入我們。我們將進行一個簡短的介紹，由Ana主持。安娜，我很樂意把它交給你。

Thank you, Raul, and good evening, everyone. Welcome to our '25 results presentation. So alongside our strong results today, we are announcing the acquisition of Webster Financial Corporation, an important strategic step for the group. So for that reason, today's presentation will follow a slightly different structure. First, Hector will kick off with an overview of our results.

謝謝你，勞爾，大家晚上好。歡迎參加我們的「2025年成果發表會」。因此，除了今天公佈的強勁業績之外，我們還宣布收購韋伯斯特金融公司，這是集團邁出的重要策略一步。因此，今天的演講結構將略有不同。首先，Hector 將概述我們的結果。

Then I will explain the transaction in detail, including the strategic and financial rationale and implications, and I will then wrap up with some closing remarks, and our outlook for 2028.

然後我將詳細解釋這筆交易，包括其策略和財務理由及影響，最後我將作總結發言，並展望我們對 2028 年的展望。

Hector, over to you.

赫克托，該你了。

Thanks, Ana, and welcome to our full year results presentation. This was another record year for Santander with a customer base growing by 8 million new customers to 100 million. Our quarterly profit hit a new record. And with EUR14.1 billion in '25, we have reported our best ever annual results driven by solid underlying growth across all our businesses.

謝謝安娜，歡迎參加我們的年度業績發表會。對桑坦德銀行來說，這又是創紀錄的一年，客戶群新增800萬，達到1億。我們的季度獲利創下新紀錄。2025 年，我們實現了 141 億歐元的年度營收，這是有史以​​來最好的年度業績，這得益於我們所有業務的穩健成長。

We achieved this by focusing on one transformation, making excellent progress towards a common operating model and simplifying our products. This has enabled us to improve our efficiency to almost 41% and to increase our RoTE post AT1 to 16.3%. We have further strengthened our balance sheet, ending the year at all-time high CET1 ratio of 13.5%, reflecting our ability to generate capital organically.

我們專注於一項轉型、在建立通用營運模式方面取得卓越進展以及簡化產品，實現了這一目標。這使我們能夠將效率提高到近 41%，並將 AT1 後的 RoTE 提高到 16.3%。我們進一步加強了資產負債表，年底 CET1 比率達到歷史新高 13.5%，這反映了我們自主創造資本的能力。

And finally, we once again delivered strong shareholder value creation with TNAV plus dividend per share growing by 14%. Our profits are up 12% year-over-year and ex Argentina up 15% year-on-year. We delivered strong growth in our top line with revenue up 4% in constant euros, supported by customer activity across all our businesses.

最後，我們再次實現了強勁的股東價值創造，每股總資產淨值加上股息成長了 14%。我們的利潤年增 12%，除阿根廷外，年增 15%。在所有業務領域，客戶活躍度的支撐下，我們的營收實現了強勁增長，按固定歐元計算增長了 4%。

Fee income is up 9% in constant euros, supported by significant growth in customers and the network benefits we're capturing through our global businesses. Expenses grew well below revenue, down 1% in absolute terms, showcasing the positive effects of our transformation, and we delivered record net operating income of almost EUR37 billion.

以固定歐元計算，手續費收入成長了 9%，這得益於客戶的顯著成長以及我們透過全球業務獲得的網路收益。支出成長遠低於營收成長，絕對值下降了 1%，這反映了我們轉型帶來的正面影響，我們實現了近 370 億歐元的創紀錄淨營業收入。

Our prudent approach to risk is also evident in our cost of risk, which ended the year at 1.15%, in line with our guidance for '25. The combination of our global businesses with geographical diversification continues to drive profitable and resilient growth.

我們審慎的風險因應方式也反映在我們的風險成本上，該成本在年底為 1.15%，與我們對 2025 年的預期一致。全球業務與地理多元化相結合，持續推動獲利和穩健成長。

CIB, Wealth and Payments delivered strong revenue growth underpinned by solid fee increases driven by network effects and enhanced capabilities. At the same time, while higher interest rates benefit our retail franchises in Europe, other parts of the group performed better with lower rates. Our consumer business is a great example of this with NII up 5% year-on-year.

CIB、財富管理和支付業務實現了強勁的收入成長，這得益於網路效應和增強的能力所帶來的穩健的費用成長。同時，雖然較高的利率有利於我們在歐洲的零售特許經營業務，但集團的其他部分在較低的利率下表現更好。我們的消費者業務就是一個很好的例子，淨利息收入較去年同期成長 5%。

In addition, our strong customer focus and product track record in active balance sheet management explained the resilient group NII performance, which, excluding Argentina, grew 3% year-on-year. At the same time, we are beginning to see the benefits of our global platforms.

此外，我們強大的客戶至上理念和積極的資產負債表管理方面的良好產品記錄解釋了集團穩健的淨利息收入表現，除阿根廷外，淨利息收入同比增長 3%。同時，我們也開始看到我們全球平台帶來的好處。

Our global and diversified model allows us to both improve customer experience and efficiency and the ability to allocate capital in a dynamic way across global businesses and geographies, something very few can replicate. Combined with our capital discipline, and focus on profitability, this is driving higher RoTE with the group and most of our global businesses above the targets we set for '25.

我們全球化和多元化的模式使我們能夠提高客戶體驗和效率，並能夠以動態的方式在全球業務和地區之間分配資本，這是極少數公司能夠複製的。結合我們的資本紀律和對獲利能力的關注，這推動了集團和我們大多數全球業務的資本回報率（RoTE）高於我們為 2025 年設定的目標。

This is despite adverse macro on a net basis compared to our base scenario. Our consistent execution has driven positive operating leverage. The key driver of this was one transformation driven by simplification and automation, which resulted in 265 basis points of efficiencies followed by our global businesses, which contributed 108 basis points and our global tech capabilities with another 87 basis points.

儘管宏觀經濟淨值較我們的基本預測情境不利，但情況依然如此。我們始終如一的執行力帶來了正向的經營槓桿效應。推動這項轉變的關鍵因素是簡化和自動化帶來的轉型，效率提高了 265 個基點；其次是我們的全球業務，效率提高了 108 個基點；再次是我們的全球技術能力，效率提高了 87 個基點。

And there is still much more to come. We see further upside as we roll out common operating model and tech platforms across retail and consumer, while we also capture network effects across our global businesses, particularly on wealth and insurance, CIB and payments. And very importantly, all this is something that is entirely under our control.

還有更多精彩內容即將呈現。隨著我們在零售和消費領域推出通用營運模式和技術平台，我們看到了進一步的成長空間，同時我們也獲得了全球業務的網路效應，尤其是在財富和保險、企業及投資銀行和支付領域。非常重要的一點是，這一切都完全在我們的掌控之中。

In retail, One Transformation improved our operating leverage by combining the deployment of our global platforms with a strong local execution and network benefits. We grew active customers by around 2%, while reducing our cost to serve by around 4%, closing '25 with a 39% cost-to-income ratio and almost 80% post AT1 RoTE, exceeding the objectives we set for the year.

在零售領域，One Transformation 透過將我們的全球平台部署與強大的本地執行力和網路優勢相結合，提高了我們的營運槓桿。我們的活躍客戶數量增加了約 2%，同時服務成本降低了約 4%，2025 年的成本收入比為 39%，AT1 後的 RoTE 接近 80%，超過了我們為這一年設定的目標。

This performance reflects progress on the transformation of both the operating and the business models in parallel and the beginning of tech platform deployment. First, we are rolling out common business models across the countries through our global businesses. Second, we are moving towards common operating models by simplifying products and customer journeys.

這項業績反映了營運模式和商業模式並行轉型所取得的進展，以及技術平台部署的開始。首先，我們正在透過我們的全球業務在各國推廣通用的商業模式。其次，我們正在透過簡化產品和客戶流程，朝著通用營運模式邁進。

And third, we are making good progress on automation through our global platforms with Gravity and One app now deployed across green markets. As a result, retail profit grew 9% year-on-year with cost declining in real terms. In consumer, we made progress in the transformation by the scaling of Openbank as our global consumer platform.

第三，我們透過全球平台在自動化方面取得了良好進展，Gravity 和 One 應用程式現已部署到綠色市場。因此，零售利潤較去年同期成長 9%，而實際成本則有所下降。在消費者領域，我們透過擴大 Openbank 作為全球消費者平台的規模，在轉型方面取得了進展。

We are seeing a strong growth in our digital bank across key markets, including the U.S., Mexico and Germany, attracting strong customer and deposit inflows, and supporting our deposit gathering strategy to lower funding cost. At the same time, we continue to spend and consolidate partnerships, offering global best-in-class embedded finance solutions with leading platforms and OEMs.

我們看到，我們的數位銀行在包括美國、墨西哥和德國在內的主要市場實現了強勁增長，吸引了大量客戶和存款流入，並支持我們降低融資成本的存款策略。同時，我們繼續加大投入並鞏固合作關係，與領先的平台和原始設備製造商合作，提供全球一流的嵌入式金融解決方案。

TNAV continued to scale through new strategic partnerships, including Amazon and Apple, reaching more than 2 million customers and expanding installment and co-branded solutions across Europe. Finally, a major milestone in our transformation was the integration of Santander Consumer Finance and Open Banking Europe into a single legal entity under the Openbank brand, simplifying our structure and enabling a more consistent and seamless experience for our customers and partners.

TNAV 透過與亞馬遜和蘋果等公司建立新的策略合作夥伴關係，不斷擴大規模，客戶數量超過 200 萬，並在歐洲各地擴展分期付款和聯合品牌解決方案。最後，我們轉型過程中的一個重要里程碑是將桑坦德消費金融和歐洲開放銀行整合為 Openbank 品牌下的單一法律實體，簡化了我們的結構，並為我們的客戶和合作夥伴帶來了更一致和無縫的體驗。

As a result, Consumer delivered a strong financial performance in '25 with profit growing 8% year-on-year, supported by solid NII growth and improved cost of risk. Across wealth, CIB and payments, we are driving double-digit fee growth through the network effects and global platforms.

因此，在穩健的淨利息收入成長和風險成本改善的支持下，消費者業務在 2025 年取得了強勁的財務業績，利潤同比增長 8%。在財富管理、企業及投資銀行和支付領域，我們正透過網路效應和全球平台推動兩位數的費用成長。

In CIB, we are focused on our markets where we have invested to build a world-class franchise to better serve corporate and institutional clients across all the footprint. These investments resulted in another record year in revenue with high single-digit fee growth while maintaining our low risk profile.

在企業及投資銀行部，我們專注於我們已投資的市場，以建立世界一流的特許經營權，從而更好地服務於我們業務覆蓋範圍內的企業和機構客戶。這些投資使我們在保持低風險的同時，實現了收入的另一個創紀錄年份，費用成長率也達到了接近兩位數。

We are building the best wealth and insurance manager across Europe and the Americas, supported by our leading global private banking platform and the best-in-class products. Wealth profit was up 27% in '25 on the back of strong commercial activity and double-digit fee growth. Looking ahead, insurance is one of the biggest upside for fees in the group.

我們正在打造歐洲和美洲最好的財富和保險管理公司，並依賴我們領先的全球私人銀行平台和一流的產品。2025 年，在強勁的商業活動和兩位數的費用增長的推動下，財富利潤增長了 27%。展望未來，保險是集團費用中最大的成長點之一。

In payments, we hold a unique position as we operate on both sides of the value chain. We're capturing scale and seizing a growing opportunity through our global platforms, principally as an enabler to group platforms, but increasingly also in the open markets. In '25, payments volume was up 9% and PagoNxt EBITDA margin closed above 34%.

在支付領域，我們擁有獨特的地位，因為我們在價值鏈的兩端都有業務。我們正在透過我們的全球平台擴大規模並抓住不斷增長的機會，主要作為集團平台的推動者，但越來越多地也作為開放市場的推動者。2025 年，支付量成長了 9%，PagoNxt 的 EBITDA 利潤率超過 34%。

Looking ahead, CIB, wealth and payments will remain a key growth engine and key drivers of fee growth for the group. Our strong operational and financial performance is driving higher profitability and double-digit value creation. Post AT1 RoTE reached 16.3%, up nearly 1 percentage point year-on-year, reflecting our disciplined approach to capital allocation.

展望未來，企業及投資銀行、財富管理和支付業務仍將是集團的關鍵成長引擎和費用成長的關鍵驅動力。我們強勁的營運和財務表現正在推動更高的獲利能力和兩位數的價值創造。AT1 後的 RoTE 達到 16.3%，較去年同期成長近 1 個百分點，反映了我們嚴謹的資本配置方法。

Pre-AT1, we are above our original target of 17% RoTE set at the last Investor Day. Earnings per share rose 17%, supported by solid profit generation and lower share count, following the buybacks. As a result, TNAV plus cash dividend per share grew by 14%. We maintain our upgraded target to distribute at least EUR10 billion to our shareholders through share buybacks for '25 and '26, subject to the regulatory approvals.

在 AT1 之前，我們的 RoTE 已超過上次投資者日設定的 17% 的原始目標。受穩健的獲利成長和股票回購後流通股數量減少的支撐，每股盈餘成長了 17%。因此，每股總資產淨值加上現金股息成長了 14%。我們維持先前提高的目標，在獲得監管機構批准後，透過股票回購在 2025 年和 2026 年向股東分配至少 100 億歐元。

The Board approved a new buyback program of up to EUR5 billion, including EUR3.2 billion generated from the sale of Poland and EUR1.8 billion against the second half '25 results. As the ECB has already granted the corresponding approval, the program will begin tomorrow. Moving on to capital.

董事會批准了一項新的股票回購計劃，金額高達 50 億歐元，其中包括出售波蘭股份所得的 32 億歐元，以及根據 2025 年下半年業績計算的 18 億歐元。由於歐洲央行已經給予了相應的批准，該計劃將於明天開始。接下來談談資本。

Over the past few years, we focused on improving capital productivity and accelerating organic capital generation. Our fully loaded CET1 ratio increased 70 basis points in '25 to 13.5%, well above our 12, 13 target, supported by record organic capital generation after investing in profitable growth, remunerating our shareholders and absorbing regulatory impacts.

過去幾年，我們專注於提高資本生產力和加速內生資本累積。2025 年，我們完全計入的 CET1 比率增長了 70 個基點，達到 13.5%，遠高於我們 12、13 的目標，這得益於在投資盈利增長、回報股東和吸收監管影響後創紀錄的內生資本產生。

At the beginning of January, we completed the disposal of Santander Polska at 2.2 price to tangible book, generating around 95 basis points of capital. This excess capital has been deployed with discipline in line with our capital hierarchy. First, we used half of it to accelerate the delivery of our share buybacks within our target of at least EUR10 billion for '25, '26.

1 月初，我們以 2.2 倍的本益比完成了 Santander Polska 的出售，產生了約 95 個基點的資本。這部分盈餘資金已依照我們的資本層級結構，有條不紊地投入使用。首先，我們利用其中一半資金加快了股票回購的進度，目標是在 2025 年和 2026 年回購至少 100 億歐元。

Second, we deployed some of our excess capital into the acquisition of TSB, which will improve our U.K. RoTE to 16% by 2028. Given our improving profitability and strong momentum, our excess capital is likely to build further in '26, which brings us to the bolt-on acquisition of Webster. Ana, over to you.

其次，我們將部分剩餘資本投入到對 TSB 的收購中，這將使我們的英國 RoTE 到 2028 年提高到 16%。鑑於我們不斷提高的獲利能力和強勁的發展勢頭，我們的盈餘資本可能會在 2026 年進一步積累，這也促使我們收購了 Webster 公司。安娜，該你了。

Thank you very much, Hector. And before I turn to Webster, I would like to spend a couple of minutes on where Santander U.S. is today. In a nutshell, Santander U.S. has made huge progress, and you can see that in the numbers into building a sustainable and more profitable model every year in an organic path.

非常感謝你，赫克托。在我轉向韋伯斯特之前，我想花幾分鐘時間談談桑坦德美國銀行目前的狀況。簡而言之，桑坦德美國銀行取得了巨大的進步，你可以從數據中看出這一點，它正以有機的方式，逐年建立一個可持續且更盈利的模式。

So let me just give you the highlights, but let me start by saying that over the last three years, actually '23 to '25, profits have grown by over 30% and that the 1.7 PAT in the U.S. gets us to the 15% adjusted RoTE that we guided in Investor Day. Very importantly, it has been one of the top countries in value creation for Santander shareholders over the last five years.

那麼，我就簡單介紹一下重點，但首先我想說的是，在過去三年（實際上是 2023 年至 2025 年），利潤增長了 30% 以上，而美國 1.7 的稅後利潤使我們達到了在投資者日上指導的 15% 的調整後股本回報率。更重要的是，在過去五年裡，該國一直是桑坦德銀行股東創造價值最多的國家之一。

Actually, a top three geography. So in consumer, Openbank has continued to scale very, very fast, reaching around EUR5 billion in deposits, over 200,000 customers, and reducing our deposit funding cost. In commercial, we are a top 10 multifamily lender, underscoring our very strong position in this U.S. asset class.

實際上，地理是排名前三的學科。因此，在消費者領域，Openbank 繼續快速擴張，存款額達到約 50 億歐元，客戶超過 20 萬，並降低了我們的存款融資成本。在商業貸款領域，我們是排名前十的多戶住宅貸款機構，這凸顯了我們在美國這個資產類別中非常強大的地位。

And our strategic investments in CIB, you've seen that again in the results with a business that is delivering a return on tangible equity of 18%, driven by revenue growth, but very substantial growth in fees and very disciplined capital allocation. We also remain the market leader in wealth for LatAm, high net worth offshore. We'll continue to leverage the group's global network to build further scale in this business.

您在業績中再次看到了我們對企業及投資銀行的策略性投資，該業務的有形權益回報率達到了 18%，這得益於收入增長，但手續費的大幅增長以及非常嚴格的資本配置。我們仍然是拉丁美洲高淨值離岸財富管理市場的領導者。我們將繼續利用集團的全球網絡，進一步擴大這項業務的規模。

So, the acquisition of Webster is going to accelerate this transformation that, as you have seen in the numbers, is ongoing and doing well. But the goal now is to be best-in-class in terms of both profitability and efficiency relative to the major U.S. banks. This is a key focus, I would say, the key focus in all our core markets, be one of the most profitable banks.

因此，收購韋伯斯特將加速這一轉型，正如你從數據中看到的那樣，這一轉型正在進行且進展順利。但現在的目標是，在獲利能力和效率方面，都比美國主要銀行做到一流。我認為這是我們所有核心市場的一個重點，也是我們關注的重點，那就是成為最賺錢的銀行之一。

And let me give you the highlights. We're going to pay $12.2 billion for Webster. That is a P/E of 6.8 times, including the synergies that we have identified and feel very comfortable with in our due diligence. We expect to deliver close to $800 million pretax cost synergies. That's circa 19% of the combined cost base. As a result, Santander US.

讓我來概括一下重點。我們將以 122 億美元收購韋伯斯特。這意味著本益比為 6.8 倍，其中包括我們在盡職調查中發現並非常看好的協同效應。我們預計將實現近 8 億美元的稅前成本綜效。這大約佔總成本的19%。因此，桑坦德銀行美國分行。

RoTE would increase to 18% and will deliver 7% to 8% EPS accretion in '28. Santander Group CET1 ratio is expected to be at 12.8% at closing, close to the 13% target this year. And we will keep, and we maintain and reiterate our commitment to do at least EUR10 billion share buybacks while remaining close at the top end -- to the top end of our 12% to 13% target -- operating target for CET1.

RoTE 將增至 18%，並將在 2028 年帶來 7% 至 8% 的 EPS 成長。預計桑坦德集團的CET1比率在收盤時將達到12.8%，接近今年13%的目標。我們將繼續並重申我們的承諾，即至少進行 100 億歐元的股票回購，同時保持接近 CET1 營運目標上限（12% 至 13%）的水平。

Very importantly, this transaction is fully aligned with our capital hierarchy, and it is expected to deliver circa 15% return on invested capital that is almost 6 percentage points above returns today from share buybacks. So moving to some of the key details of the transaction. Webster is a bolt-on for Santander. As we've said, this is the kind of M&A we'll do in our core markets. The asset base represents just 4% of group loans.

非常重要的一點是，這項交易完全符合我們的資本層級，預計將帶來約 15% 的投資資本回報率，比目前股票回購的回報率高出近 6 個百分點。接下來我們來看一些交易的關鍵細節。韋伯斯特對桑坦德銀行來說是一個額外的收穫。正如我們所說，這是我們在核心市場進行的併購類型。此資產基礎僅佔集團貸款的 4%。

The headline price translates into 10 times'28 consensus P/E or 2 times Q4 '25 tangible book value. As a reminder, we sold Poland at 2.2 times price to tangible, and we have reinvested the proceeds to improve our deposit franchises in both the U.K. and the U.S. We will pay 65% of the price in cash using our excess capital optionality and the remaining 35% we will pay for in Santander shares.

該價格相當於 2028 年預期本益比的 10 倍，或 2025 年第四季有形帳面價值的 2 倍。再次提醒，我們以2.2倍市淨率出售了波蘭業務，並將所得款項再投資於改善我們在英國和美國的存款業務。我們將使用超額資本選擇權以現金支付65%的價格，剩餘的35%將以桑坦德銀行的股票支付。

We expect to complete the transaction before year-end '26 with a joint integration team led by John Ciulla, who is the current Chairman and CEO of Webster, and will become the CEO of Santander Bank NA with Christiana Riley remaining Country Head of Santander U.S. The strategic rationale and the financial rationales are both very compelling. The transaction scales our U.S.

我們預計將在 2026 年底前完成交易，屆時將成立一個由 John Ciulla 領導的聯合整合團隊。 John Ciulla 現任 Webster 董事長兼首席執行官，他將擔任 Santander Bank NA 的首席執行官，而 Christiana Riley 將繼續擔任 Santander 美國區負責人。這次交易的戰略意義和財務意義都非常令人信服。此次交易擴大了我們在美國的業務規模。

Northeast franchise to the 10th largest retail and commercial bank in the United States by assets and importantly, the fifth largest by deposits in our Northeast footprint. This is going to bring benefits from economies of scale and a better competitive positioning.

東北地區的特許經營權歸屬於美國資產規模排名第十的零售和商業銀行，更重要的是，在我們東北地區的業務範圍內，該銀行的存款額排名第五。這將帶來規模經濟效益和更好的競爭地位。

Second and importantly, our businesses are highly complementary. Webster has a lower cost of deposits, loan-to-deposit ratio of 81%. Combining this with our nationwide and top consumer franchise with what Webster brings a very strong commercial franchise in its footprint and funding advantage, this will be a key driver for continuous growth opportunities and synergies, both on cost and revenues.

其次，也是非常重要的一點，我們的業務具有高度互補性。韋伯斯特銀行存款成本較低，貸款存款比率為 81%。結合我們遍布全國的頂級消費者特許經營權，以及韋伯斯特公司在業務範圍和資金優勢方面擁有的非常強大的商業特許經營權，這將成為持續增長機會和協同效應的關鍵驅動力，無論是在成本還是收入方面。

In the due diligence, we've identified approximately $800 million of cost synergies. This is supported and will be supported and led by a management team with a proven integration track record and, of course, complemented by Santander's own experienced tech people and teams.

在盡職調查中，我們發現了約 8 億美元的成本綜效。這項工作得到了擁有成功整合經驗的管理團隊的支持和領導，當然，桑坦德銀行自身經驗豐富的技術人員和團隊也會給予補充。

Together with One Transformation, our current organic growth plans in the U.S. and transformation and open bank Webster enhances significantly our U.S. RoTE to 18% by 2028. This is best-in-class amongst other U.S. regional banks and actually among the top 25 banks, one of the best. It's a highly accretive acquisition for our shareholders.

結合 One Transformation、我們目前在美國的有機成長計畫以及轉型和開放銀行 Webster，到 2028 年，我們的美國 RoTE 將顯著提高到 18%。這家銀行在美國地區性銀行中堪稱一流，實際上也躋身前25強銀行之列，是最好的銀行之一。這對我們的股東來說是一項收益豐富的收購。

We will deliver 7% to 8% EPS accretion and a return on invested capital of close to 15%, while allowing us to deliver on our at least EUR10 billion buyback commitment. As Hector has mentioned and as part of that commitment, we will begin our EUR5 billion share buyback. So Webster is a compelling combination with Santander.

我們將實現 7% 至 8% 的每股盈餘成長和接近 15% 的投資資本回報率，同時使我們能夠履行至少 100 億歐元的股票回購承諾。正如赫克託所提到的，作為該承諾的一部分，我們將開始50億歐元的股票回購計畫。因此，韋伯斯特與桑坦德銀行的結合極具吸引力。

It's a great opportunity for Santander to strengthen and become much better in our U.S. deposit and lending franchises. Webster operates across consumer, commercial, health care, financial services with a strong presence in affluent markets and middle market lending. It has a leading health service account franchise, which is -- and provides a stable low-cost funding base.

對於桑坦德銀行來說，這是一個加強和提升其在美國存款和貸款業務能力的絕佳機會。韋伯斯特的業務涵蓋消費、商業、醫療保健、金融服務等領域，在富裕市場和中端市場貸款方面擁有強大的影響力。它擁有領先的醫療服務帳戶特許經營權，並提供穩定的低成本資金基礎。

While not as large as other peers, Webster has shown a strong track record of growth, profitable growth, and M&A integration. Its latest results show a best-in-class financial performance with close to 17% RoTE, a 46% efficiency ratio and a 0.4% cost of risk. On a combined basis, this will raise our deposit share to 8%.

雖然規模不如其他同行，但韋伯斯特在成長、獲利成長和併購整合方面都取得了顯著的成績。其最新業績顯示，該公司擁有業界最佳的財務表現，股本回報率接近 17%，效率比率為 46%，風險成本為 0.4%。綜合來看，這將使我們的存款份額提高到 8%。

That is top five position in the Northeast, an economic area that is as large as the U.K. economy. We will be a top 10 national retail and commercial bank by assets in the U.S. And again, our U.S. deposit franchise together with Webster becomes more stable and diversified. Importantly, the combined banks will have a significantly improved loan-to-deposit ratio around 100%.

這是在東北地區排名前五的位置，而東北地區的經濟規模與英國經濟規模相當。我們將成為美國資產排名前十名的全國零售和商業銀行。此外，我們的美國存款業務與韋伯斯特銀行合併後將更加穩定和多元化。重要的是，合併後的銀行的存貸比將顯著提高到 100% 左右。

So a bit more detail for those of you that don't know Webster. You can see here a detail of both loans and deposits breakdown. They have -- Webster has a much greater focus on C&I, which we don't. This results in a much more balanced loan mix and overall portfolio. It brings a lower risk profile, reducing our cost of risk around 1.3% which compares with 1.6% for San U.S. stand-alone.

所以，對於那些不了解韋氏字典的人來說，這裡再補充一些細節。您可以在這裡看到貸款和存款的詳細明細。他們有——韋伯斯特更注重商業和工業，而我們沒有。這將帶來更均衡的貸款組合和整體投資組合。它降低了風險，使我們的風險成本降低了約 1.3%，而美國舊金山的風險成本為 1.6%。獨立式。

Importantly, the deposit base, the funding mix brings sticky low-cost deposits with our cost of deposits -- combined cost of deposits falling from 2.7% to 2.4%. And finally, again, I said this already, the combined franchise will help close the commercial funding gap to close to 100% loan to deposit.

重要的是，存款基礎和資金組合帶來了具有黏性的低成本存款，我們的存款成本——綜合存款成本從 2.7% 下降到 2.4%。最後，我再次強調，合併後的特許經營權將有助於縮小商業融資缺口，使貸款與存款比率接近 100%。

So I want to stress that a key part of this transaction for us is the team. We value very highly the team that John Ciulla leads together with Luis. They have done a great job over the last few years, not just in integration, but in making their bank one of the most efficient and most profitable among regional banks.

因此，我想強調，對我們來說，這筆交易的關鍵部分是團隊。我們非常重視約翰·丘拉和路易斯共同領導的團隊。過去幾年，他們做得非常出色，不僅在整合方面，而且使他們的銀行成為區域銀行中最有效率、最賺錢的銀行之一。

They have a proven track record in M&A. And John, current Chairman and CEO of Webster will become CEO of Santander Bank NA, including Webster reporting to the SHUSA Board. Luis Massiani, currently President and COO of Webster will become the Head of Integration, Lead of Integration.

他們在併購領域擁有良好的業績記錄。而現任 Webster 董事長兼執行長 John 將成為 Santander Bank NA 的首席執行官，Webster 將向 SHUSA 董事會匯報工作。現任 Webster 總裁兼營運長 Luis Massiani 將擔任整合主管、整合負責人。

He will report directly both to John Ciulla as CEO of the banks or the new bank and Christiana Riley as President and CEO of Santander U.S. and our SHUSA Holding. Christiana Riley, again, remains Country Head and CEO -- President and CEO of Santander U.S. And they have -- all of them will have incentives aligned with the financial performance of the combination and the creation of long-term shareholder value.

他將直接向銀行或新銀行的執行長 John Ciulla 以及 Santander U.S. 和我們的 SHUSA Holding 的總裁兼執行長 Christiana Riley 匯報工作。克里斯蒂安娜·萊利 (Christiana Riley) 再次擔任桑坦德美國公司總裁兼執行長。而且，他們所有人的激勵機制都將與合併後的財務表現和創造長期股東價值掛鉤。

A combination that, as I've mentioned, will have both revenue and efficiency benefits, combining investment efforts synergizing operational overlaps and bringing Webster onto our open bank front-end platform for consumers, whilst we will take Santander Bank Commercial Bank onto the Webster platform.

正如我之前提到的，這種組合將帶來收入和效率的好處，將投資努力結合起來，協同營運重疊部分，並將 Webster 引入我們面向消費者的開放銀行前端平台，同時我們將把桑坦德商業銀行引入 Webster 平台。

Through the integration, we have identified close to $800 million in cost synergies fully phased in by the end of '28. Headquarters efficiencies and branch optimization will reduce $480 million in cost. Technology and operations will reduce $280 million in cost and other initiatives, $35 million in cost.

透過整合，我們已確定了近 8 億美元的成本協同效應，這些協同效應將在 2028 年底前完全實現。總部效率提升和分公司優化將減少 4.8 億美元的成本。技術和營運將減少 2.8 億美元的成本，其他措施將減少 3,500 萬美元的成本。

In addition to these synergies, one transformation will reduce over the same time period, around $200 million in cost, landing at a combined cost base of around $3.5 billion. We have identified also $100 million from balance sheet optimization with additional upside potential. And very importantly, we have not included joint revenue opportunities, which clearly will be there.

除了這些協同效應之外，一項轉型將在同一時期內減少約 2 億美元的成本，使總成本基數降至約 35 億美元。我們也透過資產負債表優化發現了 1 億美元的潛在收益，並且還有進一步的成長潛力。非常重要的一點是，我們還沒有把聯合收入機會算進去，而這些機會顯然是存在的。

Restructuring costs are expected to be around onetime cost synergies, along with the TSB integration costs will be largely booked in 2026 against the gain on sale from Poland. Overall, this evolution will translate into positive jaws that will push the combined efficiency ratio below 40% by '28. The transaction accelerates our three year organic plan.

重組成本預計主要來自一次性成本綜效，加上 TSB 整合成本，大部分將在 2026 年從波蘭的出售收益中扣除。總體而言，這種演變將轉化為積極的趨勢，到 2028 年將綜合效率比推低至 40% 以下。這項交易加速了我們為期三年的有機成長計畫。

As I've mentioned at the beginning, it was a very ambitious plan. Now with Webster, we aim and our target is to lift U.S. RoTE from around 10% today to 18% on a post AT1 basis by '28. This level of profitability will allow us to grow our business organically by investing in our customers, our technology and our people.

正如我開頭所提到的，這是一個非常雄心勃勃的計劃。現在有了韋伯斯特，我們的目標是到 2028 年，將美國 RoTE 從目前的 10% 左右提高到 AT1 後的 18%。這樣的獲利水準將使我們能夠透過投資於我們的客戶、技術和員工，實現業務的有機成長。

Reiterate again that on a stand-alone basis, San U.S is already on track to improve returns in a very significant way, driven first by the full integration of Auto and Consumer Banking. This is expected to deliver cost and funding benefits and result in a 3 percentage point improvement.

再次重申，就獨立營運而言，San U.S. 已經走上了大幅提高回報的軌道，這首先得益於汽車銀行和消費銀行的全面整合。預計這將帶來成本和資金方面的效益，並使效率提高 3 個百分點。

Second, growth in capital-light business, including CIB, which would add another 2 percentage point uplift to returns. Based on consensus forecast and our identified synergies, the combined San U.S. franchise will be top three in cost efficiency among the top 25 U.S. banks and in the top 5 by profitability by '28 based on current analyst forecast.

其次，資本輕型業務（包括企業及投資銀行）的成長將使回報率再提高 2 個百分點。根據共識預測和我們確定的協同效應，根據目前的分析師預測，到 2028 年，合併後的 San U.S. 特許經營權將在美國前 25 家銀行中成本效率排名前三，盈利能力排名前五。

I want to reiterate, as I said at the beginning, that being one of the most profitable banks in our core geographies is a key target for Santander and the Webster acquisition gets us there. Webster provides this final step change that we needed in the U.S. by lifting the returns by the 3 percentage points or higher.

我想重申一下，正如我一開始所說，成為我們核心地區盈利能力最強的銀行之一，是桑坦德銀行的關鍵目標，而收購韋伯斯特銀行將幫助我們實現這一目標。韋伯斯特為我們在美國帶來了所需的最終變革，將回報率提高了 3 個百分點或更多。

Again, the combined U.S. business expected to deliver RoTE of 18% by '28, which is close to or at best-in-class among U.S. banks. During 2026, organic capital generation, net of distributions, regulatory headwinds and other factors is expected to be circa 70 basis points.

再次強調，合併後的美國業務預計到 2028 年將實現 18% 的資本回報率，這接近或達到美國銀行業的最佳水平。預計 2026 年有機資本產生量（扣除分配、監管阻力和其他因素）約為 70 個基點。

At the time of expected closing for this deal, our CET ratio is expected to be close to 13% in the range of 12.8% to 13%, again, very close to the upper end of our operating range. The acquisition of Webster is expected to have an impact of around 140 basis points on Santander Group CET1 ratio.

預計該交易完成時，我們的 CET 比率將接近 13%，在 12.8% 至 13% 的範圍內，再次非常接近我們營運範圍的上限。預計收購 Webster 將對桑坦德集團的 CET1 比率產生約 140 個基點的影響。

And in '27, we expect to be back above 13% CET1, creating further capital optionality for additional shareholder remuneration subject to our capital hierarchy. Importantly, as this is a bolt-on acquisition, we're able to reiterate our capital return commitments to remunerate shareholders with a 50% ordinary payout, and at least EUR10 billion share buybacks for '25 and '26 earnings.

預計到 2027 年，CET1 比率將恢復到 13% 以上，這將為股東提供更多資本選擇權，以根據我們的資本層級向股東支付額外報酬。重要的是，由於這是一項附加收購，我們能夠重申我們的資本回報承諾，即向股東支付 50% 的普通股息，並在 2025 年和 2026 年的收益中至少回購 100 億歐元的股票。

In summary, we're using excess capital in line with our capital hierarchy for a bolt-on acquisition that represents only 4% of group assets, which delivers a cash-on-cash close to 15% ROIC with Webster offering a perfect fit for Santander U.S. and a combination that will be very competitive in its footprint.

總而言之，我們按照資本層級利用剩餘資本進行一項補充收購，該收購僅佔集團資產的 4%，現金回報率接近 15% ROIC，Webster 與 Santander U.S. 完美契合，合併後的業務將在市場範圍內極具競爭力。

Second, together with the improvements that are already in plan from One Transformation will make San U.S. more efficient, more profitable, reaching 18% RoTE in '28 and very importantly, improving the hard currency mix in terms of loans to 80% of total for the group. 80% of all the loans for Santander Group will be in hard currency.

其次，結合「一體化轉型」計畫中已製定的改善措施，桑坦德美國分行將更有效率、獲利能力更強，預計到2028年實現18%的股本回報率（RoTE），更重要的是，貸款中硬通貨的比例將提升至集團總額的80%。屆時，桑坦德集團所有貸款的80%將以硬通貨形式發放。

And third, that brings a strong management team with an excellent track record on successful integration and a culture and values similar to Santander. We have a culture like Webster of being a community bank close to our customers in every geography in which we operate.

第三，這將帶來一支強大的管理團隊，他們在成功整合方面擁有卓越的業績記錄，並且擁有與桑坦德銀行相似的文化和價值觀。我們和韋伯斯特銀行一樣，秉持著在營運的每個地區都與客戶保持緊密聯繫的社區銀行文化。

So let me just add to this that this transaction, together with TSB, will accelerate our journey to be the most profitable bank in all our core markets. U.S. is among the most attractive banking markets globally with very attractive risk returns, a growth economy and favorable regulatory environment.

最後，我還要補充一點，這筆交易，加上與 TSB 的合作，將加速我們成為所有核心市場中最獲利銀行的進程。美國是全球最具吸引力的銀行業市場之一，擁有極具吸引力的風險回報、不斷增長的經濟成長和良好的監管環境。

As is the case of the U.K., the U.S. has very strong connectivity with the rest of our global franchises, and there will be additional network benefits across our global businesses and geographies. And as I just said, increases the share of hard currency earnings, which is a good -- which is overall a good thing for us and for value creation for our shareholders.

與英國的情況類似，美國與我們全球其他地區的特許經營機構有著非常緊密的聯繫，這將為我們在全球業務和地區帶來額外的網路優勢。正如我剛才所說，這增加了硬通貨收益的份額，這對我們來說總體上是一件好事，也有利於為我們的股東創造價值。

So, looking forward, what is the outlook? Well, this transaction, together with a very significant progress you've seen in our strategy, in our numbers, you've seen the '25 results. We're headlining some of our key targets. Obviously, we'll give you more detail at Investor Day.

那麼，展望未來，前景如何？嗯，這筆交易，再加上你們已經看到的我們在策略和數據方面取得的非常顯著的進展，你們也看到了2025年的業績。我們正在重點關註一些關鍵目標。當然，我們會在投資者日上提供更多細節。

Following the acquisition of Webster, the integration of TSB, Santander will be at scale in all its core markets with near to a best-in-class profitability. And as a result of this and based on the current macro outlook, we expect to achieve an RoTE in excess of 20% in '28.

在收購 Webster 並整合 TSB 後，桑坦德銀行將在其所有核心市場實現規模化發展，並擁有接近一流水平的獲利能力。因此，根據目前的宏觀經濟前景，我們預期 2028 年的資本報酬率將超過 20%。

As we have indicated in previous results, '26 is a transition year, I would say, also an excellent year from a BAU, but also capital reallocation point of view because we are selling Poland in Q1 '26, we just closed that. We expect to close TSB in Q2 of '26.

正如我們在先前的業績報告中所指出的，2026 年是一個過渡年，我認為，從日常營運的角度來看，這也是一個非常好的年份，但從資本重新配置的角度來看，因為我們在 2026 年第一季出售了波蘭，我們剛剛完成了這筆交易。我們預計將於 2026 年第二季關閉 TSB。

We expect to close Webster of '26 and continue running our legacy and new platforms in parallel for a few months as we migrate our global platforms in both the U.K. and the U.S. Excluding these corporate transactions in '26, so ex M&A in '26, this is what we're expecting.

我們預計將於 2026 年完成 Webster 的交易，並在接下來的幾個月繼續並行運行我們的傳統平台和新平台，同時將我們在英國和美國的全球平台遷移到新平台。如果排除 2026 年的這些公司交易，即 2026 年的併購交易，這就是我們的預期。

First, revenue to grow mid-single digit in constant euros, double digit, including M&A in '26, with fee growth higher and surpassing net interest income growth, cost to be lower in absolute terms in constant euros, cost of risk broadly stable. attributable profit to increase, so a higher profit in '26 over '25.

首先，以固定匯率計算，2026年營收將達到個位數中段成長，若計入併購，則將達到兩位數成長；手續費成長將高於淨利息收入成長；以固定匯率計算，成本絕對值將下降；風險成本基本上維持穩定。歸屬於股東的利潤將增加，因此2026年的利潤將高於2025年。

Again, this is ex M&A, and a CET1 to be close to 13%, somewhere between 12.8% and 13% by the end of '26. Looking ahead further into '27, our guidance right now is revenue to grow double digits, net profit to grow mid-teens and CET1 to be over 13%.

再次強調，這不包括併購，到 2026 年底，CET1 比率將接近 13%，介於 12.8% 到 13% 之間。展望 2027 年，我們目前的預期是營收將達到兩位數成長，淨利潤將達到兩位數中段成長，CET1 比率將超過 13%。

So exciting times ahead for Santander. We have a lot more detail for you at our Investor Day and obviously, more detailed targets. We will detail how we will execute on the strategy, and I hope to see you all there at Investor Day on February 25.

桑坦德銀行即將迎來令人興奮的時刻。我們將在投資者日上向您提供更多細節，當然還有更詳細的目標。我們將詳細介紹如何執行策略，希望在2月25日的投資者日上見到大家。

Thanks. We are now going to move to the Q&A session. (Event Instructions) We have five questions lined up already from analysts. Can we go to the first question, please? I think it's from Alvaro Serrano.

謝謝。現在進入問答環節。（活動說明）我們已經準備好了分析師提出的五個問題。我們能直接進入第一個問題嗎？我認為這是阿爾瓦羅·塞拉諾的作品。

A couple of questions, please. One on the cost synergies, the $800 million. Obviously, it's a big number. I've seen the slide and I listened to you, Ana, on talking through it. But maybe you can give a bit more color on the $800 million because it's more than half of the cost base of Webster.

請問幾個問題。一是成本綜效，即 8 億美元。顯然，這是一個很大的數字。我看過幻燈片，也聽了你（安娜）的講解。但或許您可以更詳細地解釋一下這 8 億美元，因為這超過了韋伯斯特成本基礎的一半。

I realize you're pointing out the combined, but they still look pretty substantial. Obviously, some of the US was subscale in some businesses. Maybe you can walk us through there.

我知道你指的是合併後的數量，但它們看起來仍然相當可觀。顯然，美國在某些行業規模較小。或許你可以帶我們去參觀一下。

And then the second one is more difficult. It's just to try to understand the rationale. When Poland was disposed, I remember the message was 20% hurdle rate. Look, 15% is still reasonable in today's world. But the concept of 20% was the group is making [15] or so. We've got to get compensated for execution risk.

第二個問題就更難了。只是想弄清楚其中的道理。我記得波蘭被淘汰時，傳達的訊息是20%的門檻回報率。你看，在當今世界，15%仍然是合理的。但 20% 的概念是該集團正在做的 [15] 左右。我們必須獲得執行風險的補償。

And the US is a market with mixed results over the last few years. So how would you explain to investors, which could be questioning the geography, which was US investment was played down back then? Is 15% enough? Why do you think it's the right region? And how do you get paid for execution risk?

而美國市場在過去幾年表現喜憂參半。那麼，你會如何向投資人解釋，他們可能會質疑當時的地理位置，以及美國投資為何被低估？15%夠嗎？為什麼你認為這是合適的地區？那麼，如何為執行風險獲得報酬呢？

Yes. So going to -- first to the question on synergies. First, to highlight, we do expect actually quite significant revenue synergies, but that's not in the numbers.

是的。那麼，首先來回答關於協同效應的問題。首先要強調的是，我們確實預期會產生相當大的收入綜效，但這並沒有反映在數字上。

Webster has a very strong commercial operation with very strong bankers and very longstanding customers. They don't have a capital markets or CIB capacity. So actually, we're very excited about those opportunities. There could be funding synergies. It's going to allow us to grow faster in autofinance. That's not in the numbers.

韋伯斯特擁有非常強大的商業營運能力，與強大的銀行家合作，並擁有非常長期的客戶群。他們不具備資本市場或企業及投資銀行（CIB）能力。所以實際上，我們對這些機會感到非常興奮。可能存在資金協同效應。這將使我們能夠在汽車金融領域實現更快的成長。數據裡沒有體現這一點。

In terms of how we split the synergies, that is roughly the same number in terms of the combined cost base, I think, of what we said in TSB. We have done extensive due diligence. And the way we split this on the $800 million is: headquarters and overheads, $480 million.

就綜效的分配而言，我認為，就合併成本基礎而言，這個數字與我們在 TSB 中所說的大致相同。我們已進行了詳盡的盡職調查。我們對這 8 億美元的分配方式是：總部和管理費用 4.8 億美元。

Remember that we have very significant duplication in headquarters in Boston, Dallas, New York, and Connecticut. We think that is a very significant opportunity there, running retail networks. You don't need two structures to run retail networks. So that is something that is significant.

請記住，我們在波士頓、達拉斯、紐約和康乃狄克州的總部有大量重複工作。我們認為經營零售網路是一個非常重要的機會。經營零售網路不需要兩套架構。所以這件事意義重大。

Second, the technology integrations, we estimate somewhere around $300 million of the total. That's a big number, $280 million. We are very comfortable with that number. We are going to go on the commercial side.

其次，技術整合方面，我們估計總額約 3 億美元。那可是個大數字，2.8億美元。我們對這個數字非常滿意。我們將走商業路線。

We're basically going to shut down our systems and go on to theirs, simple. It's going to go on to Pfizer. Our commercial bank is relatively small, but it's not that small. So that's all upside.

我們基本上會關閉自己的系統，然後轉到他們的系統上，就這麼簡單。它將轉交給輝瑞公司。我們的商業銀行規模相對較小，但也不是特別小。所以，全是利好因素。

On the front end, for the consumers, we're going to use Openbank, which is up and running. It will delay slightly the Openbank launch national, but we're going to get a much better front end for the Webster customers.

前端方面，對於消費者，我們將使用已經上線運行的 Openbank。這將稍微推遲 Openbank 在全國範圍內的推出，但我們將為 Webster 的客戶帶來更好的前端體驗。

On the back end, we're going to be very pragmatic and, again, go to Pfizer. Our APIs are easy. We know how they work. So we feel very comfortable with those numbers on synergies.

後端方面，我們將非常務實，再次選擇輝瑞公司。我們的API很容易上手。我們知道它們是如何運作的。因此，我們對這些協同效應數據感到非常滿意。

Again, think of this. We're buying Webster, but the operational model in terms of the bank is theirs. And so think about -- if you want to think about high number, first, the combined is not such a high number. It's 19%, again very similar to what we said in the UK.

再想想這件事。我們收購的是韋伯斯特銀行，但銀行的營運模式仍由他們保留。所以想想——如果你想考慮一個很大的數字，首先，加起來並不是一個很大的數字。是 19%，這和我們在英國所說的非常相似。

But if you think about our cost base, it's a very different story. And it's our cost base which is still relatively higher. So again, finally, the team.

但如果你考慮我們的成本結構，情況就完全不同了。而且我們的成本基礎仍然相對較高。最後，再次介紹團隊。

As we've said, John Ciulla will stay on as CEO of the combined bank. Luis is number two, will stay on as COO of the bank and will double hat at the group level and will run integration, reporting both to Christiana and to John.

正如我們之前所說，約翰·丘拉將繼續擔任合併後銀行的執行長。路易斯排名第二，將繼續擔任銀行的首席營運官，並在集團層面兼任兩職，負責整合工作，同時向克里斯蒂安娜和約翰匯報。

He will be, of course, complemented by group resources and global platform. So again, I'm not saying this is easy; but we are very confident that this is a realistic number. And, again, there is zero in terms of all the numbers you're seeing, in terms of revenue synergies. And we know there will be.

當然，他將得到集團資源和全球平台的支持。所以，我再次強調，我並不是說這很容易；但我們非常有信心這是一個現實的數字。而且，再次強調，就你看到的所有數字而言，就收入綜效而言，都是零。我們知道一定會有這種情況。

In terms of why we are 15% ROIC, we are being very consistent with our capital hierarchy. And again, the spread between share buybacks when we did TSB and today, it's exactly the same. So think that at EUR11, the share buybacks is 9%, ROIC is 15%. That's six points. That's exactly the difference between 14% and 20% we had when we announced TSB.

至於為什麼我們的投資報酬率是 15%，是因為我們在資本層級方面非常保持一致。再次強調，我們當年進行 TSB 股票回購時的價格差與今天的價格差完全相同。所以假設股價為 11 歐元，股票回購率為 9%，ROIC 為 15%。那得了六分。這和我們宣布 TSB 時 14% 和 20% 之間的差距完全一樣。

Finally, you say mixed results in the US. Well, I respectfully disagree. We are very focused on shareholder value creation. I have said it, I think, during the presentation; I want to reiterate.

最後，您提到美國的結果好壞參半。恕我直言，我並不認同。我們非常注重為股東創造價值。我想我在演講中已經說過，我想再次重申。

Over the last five years, the US has been top three in terms of the geographies of Santander in value creation. And again, the US results have gone up by 30% over the last three years.

過去五年，美國在桑坦德銀行的價值創造方面一直位居前三名。而且，美國的成績在過去三年又提高了 30%。

We've taken accounting RoTE from 5% to 10%. But very importantly, on an adjusted basis, as we said at Investor Day, it's 15%. So I believe that is the explanation.

我們將會計 RoTE 從 5% 提高到了 10%。但非常重要的一點是，正如我們在投資者日上所說，經過調整後，這一比例為 15%。所以我認為這就是原因。

Thank you, Ana. Could we go to the next question, please? It's from Sophie from Goldman Sachs.

謝謝你，安娜。我們能進入下一個問題嗎？這是高盛的Sophie發來的。

This is Sophie from Goldman Sachs. So just going back to the previous question around the West Coast -- because it's not that long ago you exited your operations in the West Coast. What has changed now that you see that as a very attractive market, given that a few years ago, you decided to run down your mortgage lending and closed your Santander branches in the region?

這位是高盛的蘇菲。所以，回到之前關於西岸的問題──因為你們退出西岸業務的時間並不長。鑑於幾年前您決定縮減抵押貸款業務並關閉了該地區的桑坦德銀行分行，現在您認為這是一個非常有吸引力的市場，是什麼改變了您的看法？

And then my second question would be on the 140 basis points capital impact that you guide for. Could you just give us the numbers that you assume in terms of goodwill impact and other adjustments to capital that we should be aware of from this transaction?

那麼我的第二個問題是關於您所說的 140 個基點的資本影響。能否告知我們您預期的商譽影響以及其他我們應該注意的資本調整的具體數字？

Okay. Apologies if I understood correctly, but I would say that obviously, what Webster does is it converts Santander US into the same kind of retail commercial bank that we run in every other country. We are not pretending to be a retail commercial bank across the United States. Our focus is the Northeast. It's a country or an economy the size of the UK. There, we're going to be top five combined with the global scale of Santander.

好的。如果我理解正確的話，請見諒。但很明顯，韋伯斯特所做的就是將桑坦德美國銀行轉變為與我們在其他所有國家運營的零售商業銀行相同的模式。我們並不打算成為一家遍佈全美的零售商業銀行。我們的重點是東北地區。它指的是一個與英國規模相當的國家或經濟體。在那裡，我們將躋身前五名，並擁有桑坦德銀行的全球規模。

But the very strong community banking, commercial bank of Webster, what you're getting is a full-service retail commercial bank, which is something we could not do without Webster. That is why pre-Webster, we were very clear.

但是，韋伯斯特是一家實力雄厚的社區銀行和商業銀行，它提供的是一家提供全方位服務的零售商業銀行，沒有韋伯斯特，我們是做不到這一點的。這就是為什麼在韋伯字典出現之前，我們的表達方式非常明確。

And by the way, you have the numbers of what we've done the last three years. We have turned Santander US into a sustainable, profitable business; but it was more of a monoliner focused on consumer. What we did is expand the digital bank, greatly reduced the cost of funding.

順便說一下，你們有我們過去三年所做工作的統計數據。我們已經將桑坦德美國銀行轉型為一家可持續發展的盈利企業；但它以前更像是一家專注於消費者的單一銀行。我們擴大了數位銀行的規模，大大降低了融資成本。

We got $8 billion in about 15 months, which reduced our cost of funding, allowed us to fund profitably consumer loans; but it was a monoliner, a consumer bank. Now with Webster, Webster brings a very strong commercial bank, which complements our consumer bank.

我們在大約 15 個月內獲得了 80 億美元，這降低了我們的融資成本，使我們能夠盈利地發放消費貸款；但它是一家單一貸款機構，一家消費銀行。現在有了韋伯斯特，韋伯斯特就擁有了一家非常強大的商業銀行，這與我們的消費銀行形成了互補。

So we become -- and now we're integrating also the auto operation. So this is what you're seeing if you look at the way we get to 18%, and that is the key number. Webster acquisition takes Santander US to be best in class, top five among the biggest 25 banks in the United States by profitability.

所以我們變成了——現在我們也在整合自動操作。所以，如果你觀察我們如何達到 18% 這個數字，你會發現這一點，而 18% 正是關鍵數字。收購韋伯斯特後，桑坦德美國銀行成為同類最佳銀行，以獲利能力計算，在美國最大的 25 家銀行中位列前五名。

This is our goal. This is where we want to be. This is our goal in Mexico, in Spain, everywhere. And so being 18% RoTE with the scale that we get with Webster in the northeast region, it makes us a very, very competitive bank in the United States, again, in the northeast.

這就是我們的目標。這就是我們想去的地方。這是我們無論在墨西哥、西班牙或世界各地都追求的目標。因此，憑藉韋伯斯特在東北地區的規模優勢，我們的資本回報率 (RoTE) 達到了 18%，這使我們成為美國，尤其是東北地區，一家非常有競爭力的銀行。

Importantly, what we're saying is that this will take us, and of course we'll give you more detail, to the group RoTE being above 20% by '28. This will make us, again, a top bank in profitability.

重要的是，我們想說的是，這將使我們（當然，我們會提供更多細節）在 2028 年實現集團 RoTE 超過 20%。這將使我們再次成為獲利能力最強的銀行之一。

Importantly, this is a bolt-on acquisition if you measure it in terms of 4% of our loans, but it greatly increases the hard currency proportion. It's a strategic transaction in the US. But at the group level, it is a bolt-on acquisition, whether you look at it in terms of market value, 7%; or loans.

重要的是，如果以我們貸款總額的 4% 來衡量，這只是一項附加收購，但它大大提高了硬通貨的比例。這是美國的一項戰略交易。但從集團層級來看，無論從市值（7%）或貸款的角度來看，這都是一筆附帶收購案。

Again, the ultimate goal is profitability; and we get to that by having the in-market scale and the diversified model that Webster brings to our retail commercial bank. In terms of 140 basis points --

再次強調，最終目標是獲利；而我們實現這一目標的方式，正是憑藉韋伯斯特為我們的零售商業銀行帶來的市場規模和多元化模式。以140個基點計算--

Hi, Sophie. It's Jose. The price we've paid in euros is EUR10.3 billion. 65% of that is cash, which is the capital impact. In basis points, that is 110 basis points. Remember that in our case today, 1 basis point is around EUR61 million, EUR62 million.

你好，索菲。是何塞。我們支付的價格為103億歐元。其中65%是現金，這是資本影響。換算成基點，那就是 110 個基點。請記住，就我們今天的情況而言，1 個基點大約是 6,100 萬歐元，6,200 萬歐元。

The difference between 110 and 140 is twofold. On the one hand, the impact of the DTAs; and second, a slight increase in risk-weighted assets as we translate US dollar-based models into European-based models. And that explains the 30 basis points difference.

110 和 140 之間的差異體現在兩個方面。一方面，存在遞延所得稅資產的影響；另一方面，由於我們將以美元為基礎的模型轉換為以歐元為基礎的模型，風險加權資產略有增加。這就解釋了這30個基點的差異。

Could we move to the next question, please? I think it comes from Borja Ramirez at Citi.

我們能進入下一個問題嗎？我認為這消息來自花旗銀行的博爾哈·拉米雷斯。

Borja Ramirez, Citi.

博爾哈·拉米雷斯，花旗集團。

I would like to ask. So it seems that our funding costs synergy is from the deposit side of Webster. So I would like to ask, please, how should we look at the funding and the deposit funding, allowing maybe better funding costs for the auto business point of view? And also, how should the transaction -- how should we think about the improved (technical difficulty)

我想問一下。因此，我們的融資成本綜效似乎來自韋伯斯特的存款方面。所以我想請教一下，從汽車產業的角度來看，我們該如何看待資金和存款資金，進而降低融資成本？此外，我們應該如何看待這筆交易——我們應該如何看待改進後的交易？（技術難題）

Sorry, Borja, I don't think we got the second part of your question. Do you mind repeating the second question, please?

抱歉，博哈，我們好像沒聽懂你問題的第二部分。請問您能否重複一下第二個問題？

Yes. Sorry, my bad. I would like to ask. Given the fact that the business is now more diversified and better funding, now 100% loan to deposit ratio, could that allow for better growth going forward for the combined business?

是的。抱歉，我的錯。我想問一下。鑑於公司目前業務更加多元化，資金狀況也更好（貸款存款比率達到 100%），這能否為合併後的公司帶來更好的未來成長？

The answer is yes. As you said, loan to deposit goes to 100%. But very importantly, the average cost of deposit for the combined bank goes down by about 40 basis points, which is quite significant.

答案是肯定的。正如你所說，貸款與存款之比達到了100%。但非常重要的是，合併後銀行的平均存款成本下降了約 40 個基點，相當顯著。

One of the great businesses that Webster has is the HSA. That is very sticky retail deposits. They're very good at that. And that is a very cheap cost of funding that they manage very well. That is one of the very attractive parts of the business.

韋伯斯特最成功的企業之一就是 HSA。這是非常難追的零售存款。他們在這方面非常出色。而且這筆資金成本非常低，他們也管理得很好。這是該行業最吸引人的地方之一。

But obviously, they have a very strong retail presence also in commercial funding. So overall, that improves our loan to deposit and should allow us to grow faster on the consumer side.

但很顯然，他們在商業融資領域也擁有非常強大的零售實力。因此，總體而言，這改善了我們的貸款存款比率，應該能夠讓我們在消費者方面更快成長。

By the way, not just because of the funding, but also by the diversification, we now have a bank that looks like a traditional retail commercial bank, which we run in other markets. And in the US, this is the mix that you would see in any other regional bank. So again, it should allow us to grow faster overall, as well as reducing the overall cost of funding.

順便說一句，不僅是因為資金，還因為多元化經營，我們現在擁有了一家看起來像傳統零售商業銀行的銀行，而我們在其他市場也經營這樣的銀行。在美國，這種組合在任何其他地區性銀行都會看到。所以，這應該能讓我們整體發展得更快，同時降低整體融資成本。

Maybe we can go to the next question. That comes from Carlos at CaixaBank.

或許我們可以進入下一個問題了。這是來自 CaixaBank 的 Carlos 提供的消息。

Carlos Peixoto, CaixaBank.

卡洛斯·佩索托，CaixaBank。

Just a quick question from my side, actually, on the deal integration. So actually, two questions. Basically, in [527], you make a difference for [bridge and C21] evolution. I was wondering if you could describe as well how it plays on the expected impacts from the Polish sale in TSB so that we could have a bit of an additional color on the world bridge until year end 2026.

我這邊有個關於交易整合的小問題。實際上，我有兩個問題。基本上，在[527]中，你對[橋牌和C21]的發展產生了影響。我想知道您是否也能描述一下，波蘭出售 TSB 會對市場產生怎樣的預期影響，以便我們在 2026 年底之前對世界經濟狀況多一些了解。

And then on the second question, are you issuing new shares? I mean, I'm sorry if I missed this. But are you issuing new shares for Webster, or are those shares coming from the share buybacks being carried out?

第二個問題是，你們是否發行新股？如果我錯過了什麼，我很抱歉。但是，您是為韋伯斯特公司發行新股，還是這些股份來自正在進行的股票回購？

In case you're issuing new shares, what was the rationale behind this option of issuing new shares while carrying out these buybacks? And why not carrying out the deal in cash and canceling the share buybacks that were previously announced?

如果您要發行新股，那麼在進行這些股票回購的同時選擇發行新股的理由是什麼？為什麼不以現金方式完成交易，並取消先前宣布的股票回購計畫？

So Carlos, I hope I understood your question. So I think you're asking TSB and Poland, what this means in terms of impact by year end. Ex-M&A, as I said, mid-single-digit revenue growth costs down and profit up during '26.

卡洛斯，我希望我理解了你的問題。所以我認為你是在問TSB和波蘭，這會對年底產生什麼影響。正如我之前所說，除併購外，2026 年營收成長為個位數中段，成本下降，利潤上升。

With M&A, we expect double-digit revenue growth. We haven't said much in terms of cost because we need to -- again, we need to bring in a lot of costs and then include the synergy. So we'll give you that detail.

透過併購，我們預計營收將達到兩位數成長。我們沒有過多談及成本，因為我們需要──再說一遍，我們需要先把很多成本考慮進去，然後再考慮協同效應。所以我們會把這個細節告訴你。

But what's important is that for '27, which will be a clean year where you will get the full benefit of both TSB and Poland, what we are saying is double digit in constant euros, positive operational leverage, and up -- profits up mid teens in constant euros. So again, '27 would be a full year with both TSB and Poland.

但重要的是，對於 2027 年，這將是一個全新的年份，您將充分受益於 TSB 和波蘭，我們預計以固定歐元計算將實現兩位數增長，運營槓桿效應為正，利潤將以固定歐元計算增長十幾個百分點。所以，2027 年將是 TSB 和波蘭都擁有完整合約的一年。

I think the more important strategic message is that we are getting two countries in one year. First, we're exiting a country at 2.2 times book. Again, at the time, that was 6 points better than buybacks. We're doing two bolt-on acquisitions, which for the group are bolt ons, but strategically takes both the UK and the US to be at scale in retail commercial banking; and very important, best-in-class profitability in both markets.

我認為更重要的戰略訊息是，我們一年內就能拿下兩個國家。首先，我們以 2.2 倍的帳面價值退出該國。當時，這比股票回購好 6 個百分點。我們正在進行兩項附加收購，對集團而言只是附加收購，但從戰略上講，這將使英國和美國在零售商業銀行業務方面達到規模；而且非常重要的是，在這兩個市場實現一流的盈利能力。

And that combination is quite unique, which means we are now at scale in all of our core markets. Again, we could get organically there. As we said in the US, we had a good plan. You can see it on the slide, significant uplift over the next couple of years. But getting to 18% profitability with a US bank is really a major achievement, as in the case of TSB to 16%.

這種組合非常獨特，這意味著我們現在在所有核心市場都實現了規模化。我們也可以循序漸進地實現這一點。正如我們在美國所說，我們有一個很好的計劃。從幻燈片上可以看出，未來幾年將顯著成長。但對於美國銀行來說，實現 18% 的獲利能力確實是一項重大成就，就像 TSB 銀行達到 16% 一樣。

So again, two add-on acquisitions, which basically give us the scale we needed on the retail commercial side. In terms of the new shares, we will be issuing new shares for 35% of the consideration. We are launching tomorrow. Actually, we've approved today -- and we gave that news right now -- the EUR5 billion share buyback that starts tomorrow.

所以，我們又進行了兩次附加收購，這基本上使我們在零售商業方面達到了所需的規模。關於新股，我們將以35%的對價發行新股。我們明天就要上線了。事實上，我們今天已經批准了——而且我們剛剛也公佈了這一消息——50億歐元的股票回購計劃，該計劃將於明天開始。

There is still another buyback in the second half of this year on '26 earnings and, of course, in the first quarter of '27 on the second half of '26. So on a net basis, EUR5 billion will be compensated by an issuance of [3.5 billion] shares that will have to go to shareholders. On our side, there will be an AGM, a shareholders meeting, to approve that.

今年下半年還將根據 2026 年的收益進行另一次股票回購，當然，2027 年第一季還將根據 2026 年下半年的收益進行股票回購。因此，淨額為 50 億歐元，將透過發行 35 億股股票來補償，這些股票必須分配給股東。我們這邊會召開股東大會來批准這件事。

Just to give a detail that is probably important for -- as you build your models, the exchange ratio is 2.0548 Santander shares per Webster share. That's the number of shares that will be issued.

補充一點細節，這可能對您建立模型很重要——每股韋伯斯特股票可兌換 2.0548 股桑坦德股票。這就是將要發行的股份數量。

And probably just to clarify the up profit in 2026, ex-Poland and ex-TSB, that is exactly what we mean. In 2025 -- 2026, sorry, we will not have Poland. And without the contribution of TSB, we expect profits to be higher than the reported figure in 2025, just the reported figure in 2025. That's what we mean by up without Poland, without TSB.

或許需要澄清一下，2026 年的利潤成長（不包括波蘭和 TSB）正是我們所指的。很遺憾，2025-2026年，我們將不再擁有波蘭。如果沒有 TSB 的貢獻，我們預計 2025 年的利潤將高於公佈的數字，僅高於 2025 年公佈的數字。這就是我們所說的，沒有波蘭，沒有TSB（土耳其國家銀行），就無法繼續前進。

And without Webster. And of course -- so that is -- just to clarify again, '26 ex-M&A, i.e., excluding Poland because it's no longer in the numbers, excluding TSB, and excluding Webster, these would be the numbers. Obviously, we will have some months of both TSB and Webster. And that's why I said including M&A, we would have double digit revenue growth already in '26.

而且沒有韋伯斯特。當然——所以——再次澄清一下，'26 不包括併購，即不包括波蘭，因為它不再包含在數據中，不包括 TSB，也不包括 Webster，這些就是數據。顯然，我們會經歷幾個月 TSB 和 Webster 兩個品牌同時運作的情況。所以我說，如果把併購也算進去，到 2026 年我們就能達到兩位數的營收成長。

We're not giving you any more numbers because we want to make sure they're clear when we do that. And we'll do that at Investor Day. But profits will be up ex-M&A. Ex-TSB and Poland and Webster, profits will be up in '26.

我們不再提供更多數字，因為我們想確保在提供數字時，它們清晰明了。我們將在投資者日上公佈這項消息。但剔除併購因素，利潤將會成長。前 TSB、Poland 和 Webster 的利潤將在 2026 年成長。

Next question comes from Britta at Autonomous.

下一個問題來自 Autonomous 的 Britta。

Britta Schmidt, Autonomous Research.

Britta Schmidt，自主研究。

I've got a few, please. Maybe firstly, with regards to the lending exposure, could you comment a little bit on the commercial real estate portfolio at Webster, which is relatively large and I think where the NPL level is a little bit elevated for those peers? Maybe you can give us some comfort around that.

我還有幾個，謝謝。首先，關於貸款風險敞口，您能否對韋伯斯特的商業房地產投資組合稍作評論？該投資組合規模相對較大，我認為其不良貸款率相對於同業而言略高一些。或許您能在這方面給我們一些安慰。

The second one would be around the level of restructuring costs, which looks perhaps a little bit low. Maybe you can comment on what your due diligence has uncovered there.

第二個問題是重組成本水平，這個數字看起來可能有點低。或許您可以就您的盡職調查發現的情況發表一些評論。

And then thirdly, just structurally, do you intend to merge Webster into the Santander business at some point in time? Are any of the synergies dependent on merging the business? And would this have any capital implications for Santander US? So might there be perhaps some capital transferred into the business?

第三，從結構上看，您是否打算在某個時候將韋伯斯特併入桑坦德銀行？這些綜效是否取決於業務合併？這會對桑坦德銀行美國分行的資本運作產生任何影響嗎？那麼，會不會有一些資金注入到這家企業呢？

And then lastly, just a clarification on what you just mentioned. The 2026 profit increase versus 2025, ex-M&A, I'm reading the slide for that to be not in constant euro, but current euro. Maybe you can just confirm that.

最後，我想對您剛才提到的內容做個澄清。2026 年利潤成長與 2025 年相比（不計併購），我理解投影片上的數據不是以不變歐元計算的，而是以當前歐元計算的。或許你可以確認一下。

Yeah. EUR14.1 billion is euros, right? So if you look at 2026, so we're talking about revenues and costs in constant, but we're talking about profits in euros. And they would compare with the EUR14.1 billion we just reported in 2025.

是的。141億歐元是歐元，對吧？所以，如果你看看 2026 年，我們談論的是按不變價格計算的收入和成本，但我們談論的是歐元計算的利潤。而它們將與我們剛剛報導的 2025 年的 141 億歐元相比較。

So again, profits, once you take out Poland and without putting TSB or Webster in the numbers -- and you will have some months. We don't have exactly the number of months yet. We are assuming Q2 closing for TSB and second half for Webster, profits will be up. Okay. So -- and that is in euros, yes.

所以再說一遍，利潤，一旦你剔除波蘭，並且不把 TSB 或 Webster 等公司納入計算——你就會發現幾個月的時間。我們目前還無法確定具體是幾個月。我們假設TSB第二季末和Webster下半年末的利潤將會成長。好的。是的，價格是以歐元計算的。

In terms of capital implications, yeah, that's all considered in the returns that we have provided. As Jose explained, we have considered the group capital implications, and that's in the 140 basis points. There's nothing more that we have seen, and we have been very – we've done quite a rigorous due diligence.

至於資本影響方面，是的，我們提供的回報中都已考慮在內。正如何塞解釋的那樣，我們已經考慮了集團資本的影響，那就是 140 個基點。我們沒有發現其他任何情況，而且我們已經非常……我們已經進行了相當嚴格的盡職調查。

In terms of the commercial book, again, we have people in the US that understand this business. They've looked at the books. We think they're absolutely clean. They have a strong portfolio. They know the customers really well. They're quite diversified.

至於商業書籍方面，我們在美國也有了解這個行業的人。他們看過那些書了。我們認為它們絕對乾淨。他們擁有強大的投資組合。他們非常了解客戶。它們種類繁多。

So we're quite comfortable with that. Restructuring cost, the question was that it sounded – it's EUR1 billion, right?

所以我們對此很滿意。重組成本，問題是聽起來像是10億歐元，對吧？

1x, circa 1x.

1x，約 1x。

1x. Sorry, 1x, so $800 million. Yeah, $800 million. And we will actually – both the restructuring cost of TSB and Webster, subject to auditors. But we believe we will offset most of those in '26 with the accounting gain from selling Poland, which is quite substantial.

1倍。抱歉，是 1 倍，所以是 8 億美元。對，8億美元。我們實際上將承擔 TSB 和 Webster 的重組成本，具體金額取決於審計人員的意見。但我們相信，2026 年出售波蘭的會計收益將抵銷大部分損失，而這筆收益相當可觀。

So again, that is considered in the numbers and the returns that we are providing, both in TSB and now in Webster. You want to say –

所以，這一點在我們提供的數字和回報中都有所體現，無論是在 TSB 還是現在的 Webster。你想說âhi

No. And obviously – and we haven't clarified this. But now that you mention it, it's important. The profit up in 2026 excludes the capital gain from Poland, obviously.

不。顯然，我們還沒有澄清這一點。但既然你提到了，那這件事確實很重要。顯然，2026 年的利潤成長不包括來自波蘭的資本利得。

So in regards with Santander, yes. So part of the uplift in RoTE to 18% before Webster was coming. And you have that in the slide, if you can put up the slide with the synergies. So first, as I said, Santander US profit has gone up by 30% in two years -- in the last three years.

所以就桑坦德銀行而言，是的。所以，在韋伯斯特到來之前，RoTE 提升至 18% 的部分原因在於此。如果你能把包含協同效應的幻燈片放上去，你就能在幻燈片裡看到這些內容了。首先，正如我所說，桑坦德銀行美國分行的利潤在過去三年中增加了 30%（兩年內）。

You can see that the way we get from 10% accounting RoTE measured as US banks to 18% -- you can see here on the slide that we're just showing on the screen, there's a standalone improvement from merging already. And yes, they would all be merged into the bank. We have a process ongoing for that already. That is a big improvement on ourselves as we merge the banks.

你可以看到，我們從美國銀行業 10% 的會計 RoTE 提高到 18%——你可以在我們剛才在螢幕上顯示的幻燈片中看到，合併本身就帶來了獨立的改進。是的，它們都會併入這家銀行。我們已經有相關的流程正在進行中。這比我們合併銀行時的情況有了很大的改善。

Then there's the cost synergies of Webster with the bank. So again, that is what takes us from 48% to 40%. On the right-hand side of the slide is for the whole of Santander US that includes CIB. On the left, it's excluding CIB, so you can have clarity of what the retail commercial bank of Santander, including the auto business, plus Webster and then the synergies on that slide.

此外，韋伯斯特與銀行之間也存在成本綜效。所以，這就是我們從 48% 降到 40% 的原因。幻燈片右側顯示的是整個桑坦德美國銀行（包括企業及投資銀行）的資訊。左側不包括 CIB，因此您可以清楚地了解桑坦德銀行的零售商業銀行（包括汽車業務）以及韋伯斯特，然後在該幻燈片上查看協同效應。

So we go from EUR4.4 billion to EUR3.5 billion. Again, some of it, as you can see on the left, is Santander US organic plan. You can see that, obviously, our cost base was still high pro forma, and the combination is what takes you down then to the EUR3.5 billion. Is that helpful?

所以金額從44億歐元減少到35億歐元。正如您在左側看到的，其中一部分是桑坦德美國有機計劃。顯然，我們的成本基礎按準備計算仍然很高，而這些因素結合起來，最終將成本降至 35 億歐元。這樣有幫助嗎？

Britta, we'll be around if you've got further details after the call as well, and we can follow up. Could we go to the next question, please? I think it's Ignacio Ulargui.

布里塔，通話結束後，如果您還有其他細節需要補充，我們隨時可以跟進。我們能進入下一個問題嗎？我認為是伊格納西奧·烏拉吉。

Ignacio Ulargui, BNP Paribas.

伊格納西奧·烏拉吉，法國巴黎銀行。

I have two questions. The first one is on capital generation. If I just look to the plan, to the slide 27 of the presentation, could you just explain a bit what is the reason behind the stronger buildup of capital that you have in 2026 before completing the transaction, the 70 BPs? I think it's a bit higher than what I would have in mind. Is there more uncertainties, or it's just the fact that the profitability is improving?

我有兩個問題。第一個是關於資本累積的。如果我只看計劃，也就是簡報的第 27 頁，您能否解釋一下，為什麼在 2026 年完成交易之前，您需要累積更多資金，也就是 70 個基點？我覺得比我預想的還要高。是否存在更多不確定因素，還是僅僅因為獲利能力在提高？

The second question I have is on the revenue potential funding synergies of what's there. Just to be clear on that, there is no funding synergies incorporated into the 70% EPS accretion.

我的第二個問題是關於現有資源的潛在收入和資金綜效。需要明確的是，70% 的每股盈餘成長並未包含任何資金綜效。

So the answer is there's no funding synergies on the EPS accretion. That's upside. There's no revenue synergies. We're only giving you the synergies that we know we can count, we can measure, and we can deliver for sure. But I am certain that there will be some funding synergies.

所以答案是，每股盈餘成長方面不存在資金綜效。這是好事。沒有所得協同效應。我們只會提供您我們確信可以計算、可以衡量、並且能夠確保實現的協同效應。但我確信會有一些資金方面的綜效。

I think this was as before in the sense that we will be able to grow our auto consumer faster because we have a cheaper funding. So I think that is really interesting. And as you know, we're very competitive there.

我認為這和以前一樣，因為我們的融資成本更低，所以我們能夠更快地發展汽車消費市場。我覺得這真的很有趣。如你所知，我們在那裡的競爭力非常強。

So there is upside, not just because of cross-selling of our CIB capital markets products to commercial customers; but also, we'll be able to grow faster than we had in our own organic plant. That's not in the numbers.

因此，好處不僅在於我們可以向商業客戶交叉銷售 CIB 資本市場產品；而且，我們的成長速度也將比我們自己的有機工廠更快。數據上並沒有反映這一點。

The cap-gen that we're putting in for '26, it's exactly the same as what we did this year. So again, Jose or maybe then Hector can comment on how we have done it. We are generating a lot of cash, and this is something we can do again. We've done it already. We know how to do it. We have very granular tools. But Jose, can you --

我們為 2026 年投入的資本支出，與今年投入的資本支出完全相同。所以，Jose或Hector或許可以對我們是如何做到的發表一些評論。我們正在創造大量現金流，而且我們可以再次做到這一點。我們已經做到了。我們知道該怎麼做。我們擁有非常精細的工具。但是何塞，你能…--

The cap-gen is the same as in '25, as Ana just said. What are the assumptions in these numbers? Regulatory and supervisory headwinds of between 20 to 25 basis points; the same amount of asset rotation as in 2025, not more.

正如安娜剛才所說，資本生成能力與 2025 年相同。這些數字背後的假設是什麼？監管和監督方面的阻力在 20 到 25 個基點之間；資產輪動量與 2025 年相同，不會更多。

Obviously, profitability, as we just discussed, is going to be higher. So we will be generating a bit more capital through profits. But all the other components, we expect them to be very, very similar to 2025. So that's how we come up with the 70 basis points, which again is the same number as in 2025.

顯然，正如我們剛才討論的那樣，盈利能力將會更高。因此，我們將透過利潤獲得更多資金。但其他所有組成部分，我們預計都將與 2025 年非常非常相似。所以，這就是我們得到 70 個基點的原因，這個數字與 2025 年的數字相同。

The next question comes from Hugo Cruz at KBW.

下一個問題來自 KBW 的 Hugo Cruz。

Hugo Cruz, KBW.

雨果·克魯茲，KBW。

I have three questions. So first, I mean, I think some investors will be, right or wrong, upset because they thought you're not going to do any big acquisition. So I was wondering if you can give them any comfort that this is the last one. Or will you think about others once you digest this?

我有三個問題。首先，我的意思是，我認為有些投資者會感到失望，不管他們對錯，因為他們認為你不會進行任何大型收購。所以我想知道你是否可以讓他們放心，這是最後一次了。或者，等你消化了這件事之後，你會考慮其他人嗎？

Second question, is there any risk that this transaction is not approved by Santander or Webster's shareholders?

第二個問題，這項交易是否有未獲桑坦德銀行或韋伯斯特股東批准的風險？

And third, the timing of the synergies. I understand from the slide that all the $800 million will be captured by 2028. Seems pretty quick, but then perhaps it's because of the US. But also, I was wondering, are there any more synergies to come after 2028? That's it.

第三，協同效應的時機。從投影片上我了解到，所有 8 億美元都將在 2028 年之前籌集完畢。看起來很快，但也許是因為美國的原因。另外，我還想知道，2028 年之後是否還會有其他綜效？就是這樣。

So the answer is very simple, no more bolt-on acquisitions. I'm not going to say never; but the next three years, clearly not. But very importantly, it's not that I say we don't. The important thing is that we're now at scale.

所以答案很簡單，不再進行任何補充收購。我不會說絕對不可能；但未來三年內，顯然不會。但非常重要的一點是，我並不是說我們沒有。重要的是，我們現在已經達到了規模化水準。

We had an issue in the UK and the US where it was taking us too long. As I've said many times, the US was doing huge progress. You've seen it in the numbers. But our goal is to be the most profitable bank in each one of our geographies.

我們在英國和美國都遇到了問題，耗時太長。正如我多次說過的那樣，美國取得了巨大的進步。你已經從數據中看到了。但我們的目標是成為我們每個業務區域內獲利能力最強的銀行。

This acquisition, again, is a bolt-on for the group. We were very transparent. It follows our capital hierarchy. This is really important. We've been very consistent.

此次收購對集團而言，又是一項錦上添花之舉。我們非常透明。它遵循我們的資本層級結構。這非常重要。我們一直都很穩定。

Share buybacks at today's price return 9% to shareholders. This will return 15% to shareholders. It will add about EUR2 billion down the road -- I think those are rough numbers -- to get us to 18% between the synergies and the P&L of [REN].

以今天的價格回購股票，股東報酬率為 9%。這將為股東帶來15%的回報。這將在未來增加約20億歐元——我認為這只是個大概數字——使我們的綜效和損益表之間的差距達到18%。[REN]。

This gets Santander US -- now I'm talking about the whole, including CIB -- to 18% profitability at scale, global scale and local scale, in the US and the UK. At the group level, we're guiding to RoTE above 20%. We'll give you more details at Investor Day.

這使得桑坦德美國銀行（我指的是整個桑坦德美國銀行，包括企業及投資銀行）在美國和英國實現了 18% 的規模化盈利能力，包括全球規模和本地規模。集團層面，我們的目標是達成 20% 以上的 RoTE。我們將在投資者日上提供更多詳情。

That is a huge turning point for Santander, both in the US and the UK, but also at the group. So I don't know if that's clear enough. If you have any doubts, please ask me again. I will repeat it.

這對桑坦德銀行來說，無論是在美國、英國，或是對整個集團而言，都是一個巨大的轉捩點。所以，我不知道這樣解釋是否夠清楚。如果還有疑問，請再問我。我再說一次。

We're at scale in our major markets, our core geographies. We have always been very clear the US is a core geography. I've said that for 10 years.

我們在主要市場和核心地區都已達到規模化水準。我們一直非常明確，美國是我們的核心地理區域。我這話已經說了十年了。

We, today, can say that we have a full service Santander retail commercial bank, again, in the footprint, which is an economy as large as the UK, with a top team that has proven integration capacity. And, by the way, the timings, we're very confident because we're going to be very pragmatic.

今天，我們可以自豪地說，我們擁有一家提供全方位服務的桑坦德零售商業銀行，業務遍及與英國經濟規模相當的經濟體，並擁有一支具備成熟整合能力的頂尖團隊。順便說一句，我們對時間安排非常有信心，因為我們會非常務實。

It's a great question, and maybe, Hector, you can help me here. But one of the things we are going to do in the UK and US, we're going to slow down One Transformation. Why? Because it's hard to do two things at the same time.

這是一個很好的問題，也許，赫克托，你能幫幫我。但是，我們將在英國和美國採取的措施之一是，放慢「一體化轉型」的步伐。為什麼？因為同時做兩件事很難。

So we're going to be delivering the numbers we're telling you; but, yes, there will be, for sure, additional benefits in the US and UK beyond '28. And hopefully, if we can deliver -- I know Hector is going to say that three years, '27, '28, is already a short time period.

所以我們將兌現我們告訴你們的數字；但是，是的，可以肯定的是，2028 年以後，美國和英國還會有額外的好處。希望我們能夠實現目標——我知道赫克托會說三年，也就是 2027 年、2028 年，已經是很短的時間了。

But if we can accelerate the integration, especially in the US, where things work faster for many reasons, we will then continue with the one transformation. So we'll focus One Transformation more on countries like Brazil, Mexico, Spain, Chile.

但是，如果我們能夠加快整合進程，尤其是在美國——由於種種原因，美國的進程更快——我們將繼續推動這項轉型。因此，我們將把「一體化轉型」的重點更多地放在巴西、墨西哥、西班牙、智利等國家。

Gravity, for example, we're going to roll out that in Brazil this year. So there's also the front end systems. There's many things that we can do in other markets while focusing on integration in the UK and US. Do you want to talk on the timings of One Transformation in the US a bit more?

例如，我們今年將在巴西推出 Gravity 功能。所以還有前端系統。在專注於英國和美國市場整合的同時，我們也可以在其他市場開展許多業務。您想再詳細談談「One Transformation」在美國的具體時間安排嗎？

Yes. I mean, just to give you a little brief idea of what are we doing. So it's very important to understand that the business has grown significantly. In '23, we made $1 billion PAT; in '24, $1.5 billion (sic - see slide 17, "$1.2 billion") ; in '25, $1.7 billion in the results that you're seeing today.

是的。我的意思是，只是想簡單地向您介紹一下我們正在做的事情。因此，了解公司業務已顯著成長這一點非常重要。2023 年，我們的淨利潤為 10 億美元；2024 年為 15 億美元（原文如此 - 請參閱第 17 頁，「12 億美元」）；2025 年，也就是您今天看到的業績，淨利潤為 17 億美元。

So it's very important to understand exactly what we're doing. Also, look at the spread of how the revenue basically. Revenue grew 9% in the US year on year. Auto, the consumer business, made [$5.7 billion] in revenue. CIB, $1.9 billion in revenue. That's basically 33% up year on year.

所以，弄清楚我們究竟在做什麼非常重要。此外，也要看看收入的分佈。美國市場營收年增9%。汽車消費品業務的收入為 57 億美元。CIB，營收19億美元。這相當於年增了33%。

Private banking, around [$700 million]. And, SB&A, basically, I mean, the retail bank, basically did, retail and commercial is [$500 million]. So what we're telling you is this is the last part of the puzzle that we needed to take this bank to the next level.

私人銀行，圍繞[7億美元]。而且，SB&A，基本上，我的意思是，這家零售銀行，基本上，零售和商業銀行是[5億美元]所以，我們想告訴大家的是，這是我們把這家銀行提升到下一個等級所需的最後一塊拼圖。

So this is exactly what we needed in terms, and it's going to help us not just in the synergies we're talking about, which are huge, but also what we're doing in terms of what the funding, which is not taken into account in these numbers as I explained to you. And there is a lot of synergies in terms of cross-selling and things that we can do within the two businesses, within CIB and the commercial business.

所以這正是我們所需要的，它不僅有助於我們實現我們正在談論的協同效應（這是巨大的），而且有助於我們在資金方面開展工作（正如我向你解釋的那樣，這些數字中沒有考慮到資金因素）。在交叉銷售方面，我們可以在企業及投資銀行部和商業銀行部這兩個業務部門之間進行許多合作，從而產生綜效。

Remember that Webster is 80% commercial, 20% retail. So it's actually exactly what we needed in order to combine our business and to take it to the next level. So it's going to help us quite a lot in that sense because it is exactly what we needed to take the business up, to be able to grow it to an 18%.

請記住，韋伯斯特80%是商業用途，20%是零售用途。所以，這正是我們整合業務並將其提升到更高水平所需要的。從這個意義上講，它將對我們有很大的幫助，因為這正是我們發展業務所需要的，使我們能夠將其成長到 18%。

So the return is great, as you have seen, and basically gives us an opportunity to become a much more competitive bank with a deposit base that we don't have today. So that combination is going to help us a lot.

正如你所看到的，回報非常豐厚，這基本上給了我們一個機會，讓我們成為一家更具競爭力的銀行，擁有我們目前所不具備的存款基礎。所以這種組合對我們大有幫助。

This doesn't take into account that also makes us into a [$200 billion] total assets, which basically allows us to do some -- I mean, you know that we're very disciplined on the supreme business that we do, but that's helped us in the funding. And we basically integrated in the whole operation of the bank.

這還沒有考慮到這也使我們的總資產達到 2000 億美元，這基本上使我們能夠做一些事情——我的意思是，你知道，我們對我們所從事的頂級業務非常自律，但這確實幫助我們獲得了資金。我們基本上融入了銀行的整個營運流程。

So these are things that we'll be working over the next two years, but there are huge opportunities that is going to give us, I mean, to take the returns that we are telling you and probably a little bit more if we're really good at executing.

所以，這些是我們未來兩年要努力的方向，但其中蘊藏著巨大的機遇，這意味著我們不僅能獲得我們所說的收益，如果我們執行得足夠好，甚至可能獲得更多。

Yes. I think you asked about shareholders. Yes, we do need shareholder approval, both Webster and ourselves. This should happen in the next couple of months.

是的。我想你問的是股東方面的問題。是的，我們需要獲得股東的批准，包括韋伯斯特股東和我們自己。這應該會在未來幾個月內發生。

We don't anticipate any issue. We believe this is a very good transaction for both sides because I like to say we're the best owner. When we sold Poland, the reason was clear. Erste Bank was a better owner. They could get more network effects, more benefits.

我們預計不會有任何問題。我們相信這對雙方來說都是一筆非常好的交易，因為我喜歡說我們是最好的所有者。我們出售波蘭的原因很明顯。Erste 銀行是一個更好的所有者。他們可以獲得更大的網路效應，更多的收益。

I think, of all the options, we were the best because of what Hector just explained. We have a very complementary business; revenue synergies, again, not in the numbers; funding synergies, not in the numbers, but very important cost synergies. And so it does transform and is significant strategically for Santander US whilst they're both on low risk for the group.

我認為，在所有選擇中，我們是最佳選擇，原因正如赫克托剛才所解釋的那樣。我們的業務非常互補；收入綜效，雖然不能用數字體現；資金綜效，雖然不能用數字體現，但成本綜效非常重要。因此，它確實發生了轉變，並且對桑坦德美國銀行具有重要的戰略意義，而這兩家銀行對集團而言風險都很低。

What's the other one? Yeah, beyond '28, I think we said that, no? Beyond '28, One Transformation because we're going to really try to not get in the way of the integrations. We have a very concrete plan on the integration, by the way.

另一個是什麼？是的，2028 年之後，我想我們說過，對吧？展望 2028 年後，我們將進行全面轉型，因為我們真的必須努力不阻礙整合進程。順便說一句，我們有一個非常具體的整合計劃。

We know what we're going to do. We know the systems. I think I said it. We're going to go onto their system on the commercial side 100%. We're going to go onto their back end also on the consumer, but our Openbank front, which is clearly better.

我們知道我們要做什麼。我們了解這些系統。我想我說過。在商業方面，我們將100%採用他們的系統。我們也會從消費者的角度去分析他們的後端，但我們的 Openbank 前端顯然比較好。

And that, again, is going to bring all the consumer customers, both Openbank, SB&A, and Webster consumers, onto a single modern cloud-based platform. And that can happen pretty fast.

這樣一來，Openbank、SB&A 和 Webster 的所有消費者客戶都將匯聚到一個現代化的雲端平台。而且這種情況可能很快就會發生。

We've got two more questions left. The next one comes from Paco Riquel at Alantra.

我們還剩下兩個問題。下一位來自 Alantra 的 Paco Riquel。

(Operator Instructions) Francisco Riquel, Alantra.

（操作員說明）Francisco Riquel，Alantra。

My first question is -- you have mentioned in the past that 10% market share was the target scale in any country where you operate. You will now get to 8% in the northeastern region, much less nationwide. So do you think Webster will give you the scale and platform to be competitive with the large US banks in the longer term?

我的第一個問題是——您過去曾提到，在您經營的任何國家，10% 的市佔率都是您的目標規模。現在東北地區的成長率將達到 8%，全國的成長率則更低。那麼，你認為韋伯斯特銀行能否提供你足夠的規模和平台，讓你在長期內與美國大型銀行競爭？

And my second question is, why do you think that the Webster acquisition is a better alternative than rolling out Openbank nationwide, as you have been defending your digital strategy in the US to date?

我的第二個問題是，您為什麼認為收購韋伯斯特比在全國推廣 Openbank 更好？畢竟，您迄今為止一直在捍衛您在美國的數位化策略。

So the answer is yes. I have said it. It's on the slide. We're at scale in all our core markets. When we think about the retail commercial business in the United States, we don't think about the whole country. We think about the northeast.

所以答案是肯定的。我已經說過了。它在滑梯上。我們在所有核心市場都實現了規模化。當我們想到美國的零售商業時，我們不會想到整個國家。我們想到了東北地區。

There, we have a market share of 8%, which is very close to the 10%. And we are very confident we can get to that 10% with a new combination.

我們在那裡的市佔率為 8%，非常接近 10%。我們非常有信心透過新的組合方案達到10%的目標。

So, again, we're top five in footprint, and 8% is a very, very attractive market share. Clearly enough, I want to repeat it again, we're at scale in all our core markets.

所以，我們再次躋身前五名，市佔率達到 8%，這是一個非常非常有吸引力的市佔率。很明顯，我想再次重申，我們在所有核心市場都已達到規模化水準。

We're not going to stop the Openbank rollout national. That continues. Now, what we are going to do is we will slow down the rollout of other products because we're going to focus on the integration. So we will delay by about a year the national digital bank.

我們不會停止在全國推廣Openbank。這種情況仍在繼續。現在，我們將放慢其他產品的推出速度，因為我們將專注於整合工作。因此，我們將把國家數位銀行的建立推遲約一年。

Remember that, again, we were focusing on shareholder value creation in the short term. So the goal of Openbank national was to access cheaper funding than wholesale. That, we have achieved. That's what's behind part of the increase to EUR1.7 billion where we have reduced the funding cost.

請記住，我們當時關注的是短期內為股東創造價值。因此，Openbank National 的目標是獲得比批發融資更便宜的資金。我們已經實現了這一點。這就是資金成本降低導致預算增加到 17 億歐元的部分原因。

So there will be a delay. So we have rolled out, I think, high-yield savings and CDs. The rest of the products will have to wait. And when we roll them out, there will be the same platform for both Openbank national, where you will be able to have a full-service digital bank across the United States, as well as in the footprint of the combined Webster and SB&A, which will be the same systems and same platform, leveraging the global scale of our system.

所以會有延遲。所以，我認為我們已經推出了高收益儲蓄和定期存款產品。其餘產品只能延後了。當我們推出這些服務時，Openbank 全國平台和 Webster 和 SB&A 合併後的業務覆蓋區域都將使用相同的系統和平台，讓您能夠在美國各地享受全方位的數位銀行服務，並充分利用我們系統的全球規模。

So there is no change in the strategy with Openbank. We will delay that by about a year. The goal is -- I know it's very ambitious, and don't write this one down. But the goal would be that by, say, April, May of '27, we will be able to have and roll out the full product suite, again, for all the consumers.

所以，Openbank 的策略沒有改變。我們將把這件事推遲大約一年。目標是——我知道這個目標非常雄心勃勃，請不要把它寫下來。但我們的目標是，到 2027 年 4 月、5 月，我們將能夠再次為所有消費者推出完整的產品套件。

Hector is telling me a bit more. Maybe one month more, Hector, but not more. But, yes. Is that sufficient, Alvaro? Who was this, Alvaro? Paco. Perdón, Paco. Perdón, Paco.

赫克托還跟我說了些什麼。或許還能再過一個月，赫克托，但不能再久了。是的。這樣夠了嗎，阿爾瓦羅？阿爾瓦羅是誰？帕科。佩爾東，帕科。佩爾東，帕科。

But again, we can go into more detail. But we want to make sure we deliver the 18% in the US in three years. And for that, we have to choose where we want to prioritize. And again, delaying one year we think is worth it for us to have a common system, common platform for both Webster, Santander, SB&A, and Openbank in the United States.

但是，我們也可以進一步探討細節。但我們希望確保在三年內實現美國18%的目標。因此，我們必須選擇優先考慮的事項。再次強調，我們認為延後一年是值得的，這樣我們就能為美國的 Webster、Santander、SB&A 和 Openbank 建立一個通用的系統和平台。

The next question comes from Andrea Filtri.

下一個問題來自安德烈亞·菲爾特里。

Andrea Filtri, Mediobanca.

Andrea Filtri，Mediobanca。

I've got two. Your business plan is in a few weeks, but this move feels like an introduction to it. You fixed UK and the US now. Can we take this as a strategic move, now that capital has also been addressed, as a pivot towards growth over building up capital return, which you're confirming at 50% total payout between buyback and cash dividend?

我有兩個。你的商業計劃書還有幾週就要出爐了，但這次行動感覺像是對它的預演。你現在已經解決了英國和美國的問題。既然資金問題也已解決，我們是否可以將此視為一項策略舉措，即從累積資本回報轉向成長？您也確認了回購和現金分紅的總支付比例為 50%？

And the second is, if you could walk us through the buildup from the current 16% or thereabout RoTE to the over 20% of 2028. I think the UK improvement, it's worth more than 1 percentage point for the group. The US is contributing another one. Can you fill the gap of where you intend to complete the climb to over 20%?

第二個問題是，您能否向我們介紹從目前的 16% 左右的 RoTE 到 2028 年超過 20% 的發展過程。我認為英國的進步，對整個集團來說價值超過1個百分點。美國也貢獻了一份力量。你能填補一下你打算完成攀登到 20% 以上位置的空白嗎？

And the answer to the first is yes, absolutely. So we have built the capital. We had two pending core geographies where we're not at scale locally, and the businesses were not at the level that we could get to that profitability in a reasonable time period. So yes, you can expect that you will compound.

第一個問題的答案是肯定的，絕對是。所以我們已經累積了資本。我們有兩個核心地區尚未進入市場，在這些地區我們還沒有達到當地的規模，而且這些業務的規模還不足以讓我們在合理的時間內實現盈利。所以，是的，你可以期待複利效應。

We think of ourselves as a compounder dividends, compounding tangible book and dividend growth through the cycle. And we think this is an incredibly important step. It's a turning point.

我們認為自己是一家能夠實現複利分紅的公司，透過週期性波動不斷實現有形帳面價值和股息的成長。我們認為這是極為重要的一步。這是一個轉捩點。

We do obviously focusing on organic growth. As I've said, we are at scale in all our core markets. The 8% market share in our footprint is huge. What's really important, we're buying a really good bank.

我們顯然專注於有機成長。正如我所說，我們在所有核心市場都已達到規模化水準。我們在目標市場佔據8%的市場份額，這非常可觀。真正重要的是，我們收購了一家非常優秀的銀行。

So yes, we're paying two times tangible. But because we are the best owner, we can deliver for shareholders a 15% return on investment capital. That's cash on cash, which I think is incredibly attractive against a 9% share buyback.

所以，是的，我們支付的是兩倍的實際價值。但因為我們是最好的所有者，我們可以為股東帶來 15% 的投資資本回報。這是現金對現金的回報，我認為這相對於9%的股票回購來說極具吸引力。

So yes, you should think of us now as growth, and you should think of us as a compounder. And we should be very close to 13% by the end of 2026 and above 13% by the end of 2027. And I take you back to our capital hierarchy, organic growth, again distributions, no more bolt-ons -- I can tell you that -- and TNAV and dividend per share accretion, as we discussed.

所以，是的，你們現在應該把我們看作是成長的象徵，把我們看作是複利成長的推動者。到 2026 年底，我們應該非常接近 13%，到 2027 年底，我們應該會超過 13%。我將帶您回到我們的資本層級、有機成長、再次分配、不再附加投資——我可以告訴您這一點——以及我們討論過的 TNAV 和每股股息成長。

In terms of how we get from the 16% to 20%, well, US, as I said, above 20%, yes. I think he said 20%, but it's above 20%. Thank you, Raul. We should be above 20%. And as you know, we always deliver. So the 20% is like set in stone, and then obviously, hopefully more upside.

至於我們如何從 16% 達到 20%，嗯，正如我所說，美國可以超過 20%，是的。我認為他說的是 20%，但實際上高於 20%。謝謝你，勞爾。我們應該超過20%。如您所知，我們始終信守承諾。所以 20% 的漲幅是板上釘釘的事，然後顯然，希望還有更大的上漲空間。

So 16% in the UK, 18% in the US. Brazil should improve substantially. Spain should continue to improve. There's a lot of businesses we're still subscale where we don't need to buy organic. Insurance is one of them.

所以英國是16%，美國是18%。巴西的情況應該會大幅改善。西班牙應該會繼續進步。我們還有很多規模較小的企業，不需要購買有機產品。保險就是其中之一。

Commercial bank globally is another one. That's why this bank in the US is so important because they have a very strong commercial franchise with strong network effects, which was the reason that Poland strategically did not make sense for us and made a lot more sense for Erste. So this makes a huge amount of sense for us.

全球商業銀行是另一個例子。這就是為什麼這家美國銀行如此重要的原因，因為他們擁有非常強大的商業特許經營權和強大的網路效應，這也是為什麼波蘭在策略上對我們來說沒有意義，而對奧地利第一儲蓄銀行來說更有意義的原因。所以這對我們來說意義重大。

Nobody has asked, why Webster? But we have been looking at opportunities and the relationship with Webster -- we've known them for a number of years. Something that is hugely important, and I mentioned it in my presentation, the culture.

沒有人問過，為什麼是韋伯斯特？但我們一直在尋找機會，並且與韋伯斯特建立了合作關係——我們認識他們很多年了。文化是一個非常重要的因素，我在演講中也提過。

They have the Santander culture in commercial banking. That's huge, and I think that is something which will help on the 18% for the US. But again, the 20% we'll give more Investor Day. But I would say Brazil -- Spain still has upside.

他們擁有桑坦德銀行的商業銀行文化。那意義重大，我認為這將有助於美國實現 18% 的目標。但再次強調，我們將在投資者日上公佈更多 20% 的股份。但我認為巴西——西班牙還有上升空間。

Consumer bank has upside. You've seen that the improvement was not as good this year in consumer, if you had time to see the presentation. But the delta, as we've said, was like [500 million], and this should continue to go up.

消費銀行業務有上漲空間。如果你有時間觀看演示，你會發現今年消費者的改善並不像往年那麼好。但正如我們所說，差額約為 5 億，而且這個數字應該還會繼續上升。

And one of the reasons that this year was not so great was quite a number of one-offs, which we don't expect in the future, motor finance and Swiss francs and some things. So did I miss anything? No? Investor day, Andre, we'll give more detail on that. Is that satisfactory?

今年業績不太理想的原因之一是出現了一些我們預計未來不會再發生的一次性事件，例如汽車金融、瑞士法郎等。我漏掉了什麼嗎？不？安德烈，投資者日那天我們會提供更多細節。這樣可以嗎？

The last question -- we've got one more question from Ignacio Cerezo at UBS.

最後一個問題——我們還有來自瑞銀集團的伊格納西奧·塞雷佐的一個問題。

Ignacio Cerezo, UBS.

瑞銀集團的伊格納西奧·塞雷佐。

It's clarifications, really. The first one is if you can give us some detail on how you calculate a 15% return on capital invested. The second one, if you can confirm the distribution policy or the annual payout you're embedding in the 20% RoTE by 28. And the third one is if you foresee the possibility of having to raise the offer. And how would you respond to that?

其實只是澄清一些事情。第一個問題是，您能否詳細說明一下您是如何計算出15%的投資報酬率的。第二個問題是，如果您能確認分配政策或年度派息，那麼您將在 28 日之前將其納入 20% 的 RoTE 中。第三種情況是，如果你預見到可能需要提高報價。你會如何回應？

So no, we do not consider raising the offer. We think this is a very balanced price for both sides. And again, the shareholders in Webster have upside through the share portion. The numbers for us work well -- again, a combination of our global platforms and expertise, but very importantly, the synergies we've identified and the confidence we have that it will be revenue synergy.

所以，我們不考慮提高報價。我們認為這對雙方來說都是一個非常平衡的價格。此外，韋伯斯特公司的股東可以透過股份部分獲得收益。對我們來說，這些數字表現良好——這再次體現了我們全球平台和專業知識的結合，但更重要的是，我們已經發現了協同效應，並且我們有信心這些協同效應將帶來收入協同效應。

So do you want to explain? This is a cash on cash, basically, ROIC.

所以你想解釋一下嗎？這基本上就是現金報酬率，也就是投資報酬率（ROIC）。

I'm going to ask Raul to give the details. But again, this is a three-year return on the capital invested today. Exactly. Yes.

我打算請勞爾詳細說明情況。但再次強調，這是對今天投資的資本三年後的回報。確切地。是的。

Exactly. It's a cash on cash calculation. Exactly. Is that simple?

確切地。這是現金報酬率的計算。確切地。就這麼簡單嗎？

Raul, you're up.

勞爾，輪到你了。

So we can take you through the details if you like. But as you know, the transaction has $12.2 billion in consideration. And that will give you a number that gets you to a capital employed -- if you take into account the capital impact, you take the 140 basis points, to work out the capital impact plus the share issuance. That gives you the capital employed.

如果您願意，我們可以為您詳細介紹。但正如你所知，這筆交易涉及122億美元。這樣就能得出投入資本的數字——如果你考慮到資本影響，你用 140 個基點來計算資本影響加上股票發行。這就能告訴你投入的資金量。

And in terms of the returns, we've been quite clear. If you take consensus estimates, visible alpha, for 2028 for Webster, you will get the net profit number. You can add on to that the cost synergies. And that should get you relatively close.

至於回報方面，我們已經說得很清楚了。如果你採用韋伯斯特公司 2028 年的共識預期和可見阿爾法值，你就能得到淨利數字。您還可以加上成本協同效應。這樣應該可以讓你大致接近目標。

There is a point about the marks, but we can take you through the detailed part of the calculation. But that should get you pretty close to the circa 15% number. And obviously, feel free to give us a call. The investor relations team will be --

關於分數確實存在一些問題，但我們可以帶您詳細了解計算過程。但這樣應該可以讓你相當接近 15% 左右的數字。當然，歡迎隨時打電話給我們。投資人關係團隊將--

Which is the same the same way we calculated the TSB return on capital invested. And this is the usual way the industry calculates this number. So this is standard.

這與我們計算 TSB 投資資本回報率的方法相同。這是業內計算該數字的常用方法。這是標準做法。

On the distribution question, Ignacio, we will give you more details at Investor Day. But safe to say, Ana has reiterated the 50% payout. And she has reiterated that we will apply capital hierarchy to CET1 above 13%. We expect to be above 13% in '27 and '28.

關於分銷問題，伊格納西奧，我們將在投資者日上提供更多細節。但可以肯定的是，Ana 已經重申了 50% 的賠付比例。她重申，我們將對超過 13% 的 CET1 應用資本等級制度。我們預計 2027 年和 2028 年將超過 13%。

We will apply capital hierarchy, but no mobile acquisitions. Again, happy to take you through our existing guidance on that. And that should get you pretty close to some sense of what we assume in terms of a greater than 20% return on taxable equity.

我們將實行資本層級制，但不進行行動端收購。再次，我很樂意為您詳細介紹我們現有的相關指南。這樣應該能讓你大致了解我們假設的應稅權益報酬率超過 20% 的意思。

I think we've got no more questions left in the queue. I just wanted to thank you all for joining us at short notice this evening. We in the investor relations team will be available all night to speak and answer your questions. You can get in touch with us directly through our email addresses, raul.sinha@gruposantander.com, or through the usual phone lines on our website. And obviously, we look forward to seeing many of you at our Investor Day on February 21.

我想我們已經沒有問題要問了。我只想感謝各位今晚在這麼短的時間內前來參加。我們投資者關係團隊今晚將全程在線，隨時為您解答疑問。您可以直接透過我們的電子郵件地址 raul.sinha@gruposantander.com 或透過我們網站上的常用電話號碼與我們聯絡。當然，我們期待在2月21日的投資者日上見到各位。

Thank you very much, and this concludes our call.

非常感謝，我們的通話到此結束。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。