Rithm Capital Corp (RITM) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Rithm Capital second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Rithm Capital 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Emma Bolla, Associate General Counsel. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給副總法律顧問 Emma Bolla。請繼續。

Thank you and good morning, everyone. I would like to thank you for joining us today for Rithm Capital's second-quarter 2025 earnings call. Joining me today are Michael Nierenberg, Chairman, CEO, and President of Rithm Capital; Nick Santoro, Chief Financial Officer of Rithm Capital; and Baron Silverstein, President of Newrez.

謝謝大家，早安。感謝您今天參加 Rithm Capital 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。今天與我一起出席的還有 Rithm Capital 董事長、執行長兼總裁 Michael Nierenberg、Rithm Capital 財務長 Nick Santoro 和 Newrez 總裁 Baron Silverstein。

Throughout the call, we're going to reference the earnings supplement that was posted this morning to the Rithm Capital website www.rithmcap.com. If you've not already done so, I'd encourage you to download the presentation now.

在整個電話會議期間，我們將參考今天早上發佈在 Rithm Capital 網站 www.rithmcap.com 上的獲利補充報告。如果您還沒有下載，建議您立即下載。

I would like to point out that certain statements made today will be forward-looking statements. These statements, by their nature are uncertain and may differ materially from actual results. I encourage you to review the disclaimers in our press release and earnings supplement regarding forward-looking statements and to review the risk factors contained in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC.

我想指出的是，今天發表的某些聲明將是前瞻性聲明。這些陳述本質上是不確定的，可能與實際結果有重大差異。我鼓勵您查看我們的新聞稿和收益補充中有關前瞻性陳述的免責聲明，並查看我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的年度和季度報告中包含的風險因素。

In addition, we will be discussing some non-GAAP financial measures during today's call. Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in our earnings supplement.

此外，我們將在今天的電話會議上討論一些非公認會計準則財務指標。在我們的收益補充報告中可以找到這些指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標之間的對帳。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Michael.

說完這些，我會把電話轉給麥可。

Thanks, Emma. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our second-quarter earnings call. The company had a great quarter, and when you look across all of our business lines and subsidiaries, everything so far continues to perform very, very well.

謝謝，艾瑪。大家早安，歡迎參加我們的第二季財報電話會議。公司本季表現優異，縱觀我們所有的業務線和子公司，到目前為止，一切都表現得非常非常好。

On the Origination side of our business, Newrez and Genesis. Newrez, our mortgage company; Genesis, our RTL lender are truly industry leaders. Genesis is coming off a record quarter of production, and when you think about Genesis and you go back to when we acquired the company in 2022, we've actually grown. We've more than doubled the Origination and we've taken earnings up by about threefold since we acquired the company.

在我們業務的起源方面，有 Newrez 和 Genesis。我們的抵押貸款公司 Newrez 和我們的 RTL 貸款機構 Genesis 都是真正的行業領導者。Genesis 剛剛創下了季度產量記錄，當你想到 Genesis 並回想起我們在 2022 年收購該公司時，你會發現我們實際上已經成長了。自從我們收購該公司以來，我們的起源增加了一倍多，我們的收益增加了三倍左右。

Newrez, our mortgage company, continues to grow. We continue to have third-party servicing to the platform. Today, our total servicing is in excess of $850 billion. On the Asset Management side, our investment teams both at Sculptor and Rithm Asset Management are seeing inflows across the board, led by both real estate and ABF, asset-based finance products.

我們的抵押貸款公司 Newrez 正在持續發展。我們繼續為該平台提供第三方服務。如今，我們的總服務額已超過 8,500 億美元。在資產管理方面，Sculptor 和 Rithm Asset Management 的投資團隊都看到了資金全面流入，其中以房地產和 ABF（以資產為基礎的金融產品）為主。

When you think about asset-based finance or ABF, there are very few asset managers, in our opinion, who have the same experience and ability to source product as Rithm does. We have an edge. It's that simple. Aside from sourcing assets from third parties like everyone else, we make our own assets. We control the Origination. We control the servicing of many of the products. And when you think about this, these are the very same products that we've been working on our entire careers and that goes back 30-plus years.

當您考慮資產融資或 ABF 時，我們認為很少有資產管理者擁有與 Rithm 相同的經驗和產品採購能力。我們有優勢。就這麼簡單。除了像其他人一樣從第三方購買資產外，我們還自己製造資產。我們控制起源。我們控制許多產品的維修。想想看，這些都是我們整個職業生涯中一直致力於開發的產品，而這種努力可以追溯到 30 多年前。

Recently, we announced a large SMA at the Rithm Asset Management level with two large institutional investors on our RTL product, creating an SMA that could be as large as $1.5 billion of loans on a go-forward basis. As we look forward, we've been very clear about our desire to grow our asset management platform. Like I say, every quarter, performance matters first, and we'll continue to do all we can to differentiate ourselves where we can: earning the trust of our LPs and shareholders.

最近，我們與兩家大型機構投資者在 Rithm Asset Management 層級就我們的 RTL 產品宣布了一項大規模 SMA，創建的 SMA 未來貸款額度可能高達 15 億美元。展望未來，我們非常明確地希望擴大我們的資產管理平台。就像我說的，每個季度，業績是第一位的，我們將繼續盡一切努力在力所能及的領域中脫穎而出：贏得有限合夥人和股東的信任。

Our plethora of fund offerings are tailored to meet our investor needs, and we will continue to roll out more products where we feel we can create an edge versus others. I'm really excited about our business and the ability to grow our world-class Asset Management business. Have a look at our results. They're terrific.

我們提供的大量基金產品都是為滿足投資者的需求而量身定制的，我們將繼續推出更多我們認為可以創造優勢的產品。我對我們的業務以及發展世界級資產管理業務的能力感到非常興奮。看看我們的結果。他們太棒了。

On the M&A front, our pipelines are robust. We are working on scaling up our Credit business, our Origination business lines, and other opportunistic situations where we can create value for both shareholders and LPs. Looking ahead, we're focused on growing earnings, creating synergies where possible, and doing the same thing which got us here. Great results equal more AUM and a higher equity price.

在併購方面，我們的通路非常強大。我們正在努力擴大我們的信貸業務、我們的發起業務線以及其他機會，以便為股東和 LP 創造價值。展望未來，我們專注於增加收益，盡可能創造協同效應，並做同樣的事情。出色的業績意味著更大的資產管理規模和更高的股權價格。

I'll now refer to the supplement which has been posted online. I am going to start on page 3. So a typical slide that we put in most of our earnings decks, when you think about Rithm, here's the way that I like to think of us. Between our external externally managed assets, which is $36 billion and the Rithm balance sheet, we manage $80 billion of assets.

我現在將參考已在線上發布的補充內容。我將從第 3 頁開始。因此，當您想到 Rithm 時，我們在大多數收益簡報中都會放一張典型的幻燈片，這就是我喜歡想到我們的方式。在我們的外部管理資產（360 億美元）和 Rithm 資產負債表之間，我們管理著 800 億美元的資產。

We have almost $8 billion of permanent capital and just one thing that's not on the page, since inception, we paid out dividends between both our common equity and our preferreds of over $6 billion. If you take the $6 billion and you put it back in the context of shares, that would imply a stock price of about $25, just to give you a sense.

我們擁有近 80 億美元的永久資本，只有一件事沒有寫在紙上，那就是自成立以來，我們在普通股和優先股之間支付了超過 60 億美元的股息。如果你把這 60 億美元放到股票的背景下，那就意味著股價約為 25 美元，這只是給你一個概念。

When you think about the so-called Rithm edge, we've had 59% growth in our earnings available for distribution since the first quarter of 2021. We continue to grow our Asset Management business and our opportunistic investing platform. When you think about our Origination businesses, again, this is where I think we have an edge. We'll continue to hopefully create more of an edge, and we'll continue to acquire Origination businesses down the road.

當您考慮所謂的 Rithm 優勢時，自 2021 年第一季以來，我們的可供分配收益成長了 59%。我們繼續發展我們的資產管理業務和機會投資平台。當您考慮我們的起源業務時，我再次認為這就是我們的優勢所在。我們將繼續希望創造更多的優勢，並且我們將在未來繼續收購起源業務。

Our mortgage service is the number three largest mortgage servicer in the United States. That includes all the big banks as well. Our Origination business is a top five mortgage originator in the United States. And our RTL lender is the number two as it relates to size in the US.

我們的抵押貸款服務是美國第三大抵押貸款服務商。這也包括所有大銀行。我們的貸款發起業務是美國排名前五的抵押貸款發起機構之一。我們的 RTL 貸款機構按規模在美國排名第二。

When you think about our family of companies, Newrez, again, the mortgage company. Just to put this in context, we built this company beginning in approximately 2018. Yes, we started New Residential in 2013, while at Fortress, at that time, under the Fortress umbrella we owned what is now known as Mr. Cooper that was sold down the road. So we made a decision to build our own, and we started this business in 2000 -- give or take, 2018 when we first got into the operating business.

當您想到我們的公司家族時，Newrez 又是一家抵押貸款公司。具體來說，我們大約從 2018 年開始創建這家公司。是的，我們在 2013 年創立了 New Residential，當時我們在 Fortress，在 Fortress 旗下，我們擁有現在被稱為 Mr. Cooper 的公司，後來被出售了。因此，我們決定自己創業，並於 2000 年開始這項業務——大約在 2018 年，我們首次涉足營運業務。

Sculptor, as many of you know, we acquired in 2023. It's a world-class alternative asset manager with a great track record that goes back over 30 years. Genesis Capital, I pointed out before, we acquired in 2022 from Goldman Sachs Merchant Bank. And again, it is the second largest RTL lender in the business. One of the very, what I would call, in vogue products today in -- when we look at our funds businesses.

正如你們許多人所知，Sculptor 是我們於 2023 年收購的。它是一家世界級的另類資產管理公司，擁有 30 多年的輝煌業績。我之前指出過，Genesis Capital 是我們在 2022 年從高盛商業銀行收購的。並且，它是業內第二大 RTL 貸款機構。當我們審視我們的基金業務時，我認為其中一種產品是當今非常流行的產品。

Rithm Property Trust, which was formerly known as Great Ajax, this is an externally managed mortgage REIT. We rebranded it from Great Ajax to Rithm Property Trust. We sold down a number of the so-called legacy assets that weren't accretive to earnings, and we're working on growing that over time. Adoor, which is our single-family rental business, which has about 4,000 units is another business that should rates come down over time, we will likely grow that and try to create an edge there as well.

Rithm Property Trust，前身為 Great Ajax，是一家外部管理的抵押房地產投資信託基金。我們將其從 Great Ajax 更名為 Rithm Property Trust。我們出售了一些沒有增加收益的所謂遺留資產，我們正在努力隨著時間的推移增加這些資產。Adoor 是我們的單戶住宅租賃業務，擁有約 4,000 個單元，如果租金隨著時間的推移而下降，我們很可能會擴大該業務，並嘗試在該業務中創造優勢。

When you look at page 4, our financial highlights. Great quarter. GAAP net income, $283.9 million or $0.53 per diluted share. Return on equity for the entire company was 17%. Earnings available for distribution, $291.1 million or $0.54 per diluted share or an 18% return on equity. Book value closed the quarter at $6.7 billion or $12.71, that's up from, I think, $12.39 prior quarter.

當您查看第 4 頁時，您會看到我們的財務亮點。很棒的一個季度。GAAP 淨收入為 2.839 億美元，即每股 0.53 美元。整個公司的股本報酬率為17%。可供分配的收益為 2.911 億美元，即每股 0.54 美元，或股本回報率為 18%。本季末帳面價值為 67 億美元，即 127.1 美元，我認為，高於上一季的 123.9 美元。

Our dividend yield is still 8.9%. We're paying out $0.25, and we ended the quarter with a record amount of cash and liquidity at $2.1 billion.

我們的股息殖利率仍為8.9%。我們支付了 0.25 美元，本季結束時我們的現金和流動資金達到了創紀錄的 21 億美元。

When you think about the value prop, and this is something that, quite frankly, we spend a large amount of our time on. How do we take what we built here at Rithm and at our prior name of New Residential and get real value for what we think is a world-class Asset Management business.

當你考慮價值主張時，坦白說，這是我們花費大量時間的事情。我們如何利用我們在 Rithm 和先前 New Residential 的名稱下所建構的一切，為我們所認為的世界級資產管理業務獲取真正的價值。

So when you look at this slide, and then I'm going to take you through page 6, which is a little bit easier. The true value in looking at page 6 in the upper right side, for example, Mr. Cooper traded with Rocket for 2 times book. If you look in the upper right side of this page, Newrez at 2 times book would be an $8.3 billion book value based on the amount of equity that's in that business today. If you value the Investment Portfolio 1 times booked, that's $1.1 billion. If you value Genesis, which is a great business at 1.3 times book, that gets you to $760 million.

因此，當您觀看這張投影片時，我將帶您瀏覽第 6 頁，這會更容易一些。真正的價值在看第 6 頁的右上角，例如，庫柏先生與 Rocket 交易了 2 倍的書。如果你看一下這個頁面的右上角，那麼根據目前該業務的股權數量計算，Newrez 的帳面價值為 2 倍，帳面價值為 83 億美元。如果將投資組合的估值定為 1 倍，那就是 11 億美元。如果您對 Genesis 進行估值，它是一家很棒的公司，市淨率為 1.3 倍，價值將達到 7.6 億美元。

And then the Asset Management business, when we think about different multiples could be as high as $1.8 billion totaling $11.9 billion or a stock price that's in excess of $20. We're not going to get there today. Unfortunately, I'd like us to be there today. But when I look at the sum of the parts, and I think about how we're valued in the marketplace, I feel as though we're extremely undervalued.

然後，當我們考慮資產管理業務時，不同的倍數可能高達 18 億美元，總計 119 億美元，或股價超過 20 美元。我們今天不會到達那裡。不幸的是，我希望我們今天能到那裡。但當我看到各個部分的總和，並思考我們在市場上的估值時，我覺得我們被嚴重低估了。

Page 7, when you look at Rithm Asset Management, this does include Sculptor as a wholly owned sub. When you look at all the different products that we have or the different funds or that we can offer to our LPs and investors, the themes on the left side, ABF and credit. We have a broad ABF mandate, both Rithm and Sculptor have ABF funds. MSRs, RTL, non-QM, credit, CLOs, structured solutions.

第 7 頁，當您查看 Rithm Asset Management 時，其中確實包括 Sculptor 作為其全資子公司。當您查看我們擁有的所有不同產品或不同基金或我們可以向我們的 LP 和投資者提供的產品時，左側的主題是 ABF 和信貸。我們擁有廣泛的 ABF 授權，Rithm 和 Sculptor 都有 ABF 基金。MSR、RTL、非 QM、信用、CLO、結構化解決方案。

We -- when I think about our Credit business, and I keep talking about wanting to scale that up, yes, we have great experience in credit. We -- our returns speak for themselves. But I do think there's a lot more room for us to grow our Credit business.

我們—當我想到我們的信貸業務時，我一直在談論想要擴大規模，是的，我們在信貸方面擁有豐富的經驗。我們——我們的回報不言而喻。但我確實認為我們的信貸業務還有很大的發展空間。

On the Real Estate side, at the Sculptor level, world-class Real Estate business. Been at it for 20-plus years, and that will continue to grow over time. When I think about it from the Rithm side, we have a number of different initiatives that we're working on here.

在房地產方面，在雕塑家級別，世界級的房地產業務。我們已經堅持了 20 多年，並且會隨著時間的推移繼續發展。當我從 Rithm 的角度考慮時，我們發現我們正在進行許多不同的計劃。

I mentioned Rithm Property Trust. That is our externally managed REIT that is focused on commercial real estate. That will grow over time. We're extremely patient there. We're working on a couple of situations that could be really meaningful.

我提到了 Rithm Property Trust。這是我們專注於商業房地產的外部管理房地產投資信託基金 (REIT)。隨著時間的推移，這一數字將會成長。我們對此非常有耐心。我們正在研究一些可能非常有意義的情況。

When I look at the multi-strategy, the multi-fund at Sculptor is a world-class fund with almost $9 billion of AUM with great results. And then recently, over the past year, we liked some energy transition type funds. So overall, I feel like we have product offerings for most, what I would call most LPs who want solutions or one-stop shopping, potential expansion themes could be direct lending. Yes, we do need to be in the insurance business and then we think about private equity and infrastructure.

當我審視多重策略時，我發現 Sculptor 的多重基金是一支世界級的基金，資產管理規模接近 90 億美元，並且取得了優異的成績。最近，在過去的一年裡，我們喜歡一些能源轉型類型的基金。所以總的來說，我覺得我們為大多數人提供了產品，我稱之為大多數想要解決方案或一站式購物的 LP，潛在的擴展主題可能是直接貸款。是的，我們確實需要涉足保險業務，然後再考慮私募股權和基礎設施。

Page 8, when you look at the quarter in review. I mentioned on the Genesis side, record quarter, roughly $1.5 billion, continue to add new sponsors, great product and a great business like I pointed out, very much in vogue with our LPs and in the so-called ABF space. Rithm Asset Management, Sculptor $36 billion, up $3.5 billion of AUM since the close very, very good continued fundraising momentum across all the different products, very good performance in the second quarter. And then I pointed out earlier that we -- at the Rithm side -- on the Rithm side, we entered into a recent SMA on $1.5 billion of RTL loans.

第 8 頁，當您查看本季回顧時。我提到過，就 Genesis 而言，本季創下了約 15 億美元的紀錄，繼續增加新的贊助商，優質的產品和出色的業務，正如我指出的那樣，這在我們的 LP 和所謂的 ABF 領域非常流行。Rithm Asset Management，Sculptor 360 億美元，自收盤以來 AUM 增加了 35 億美元，所有不同產品的融資勢頭都非常非常好，第二季度的表現非常好。然後我之前指出，在 Rithm 方面，我們最近就 15 億美元的 RTL 貸款達成了 SMA。

On Newrez, the mortgage company speaks for itself. ROEs typically anywhere from in and around 20%, servicing portfolio now $864 billion. We continue to increase our third-party servicing and think about other strategic ways to drive more earnings in the business that could be -- and Baron is going to talk about that through technology saves or technology initiatives across the platform.

在 Newrez 上，抵押貸款公司不言而喻。ROE 通常在 20% 左右，目前服務投資組合規模為 8,640 億美元。我們將繼續增加第三方服務，並思考其他策略方法來推動業務的更多利潤——Baron 將透過整個平台的技術節省或技術舉措來談論這一點。

And then finally, on the Investment Portfolio, we recently did a non-QM securitization. We continue to do those. We invested about $2.2 billion in the quarter in residential and mortgage assets, which we feel are extremely attractive right now.

最後，在投資組合方面，我們最近進行了非 QM 證券化。我們將繼續這樣做。本季度，我們投資了約 22 億美元用於住宅和抵押貸款資產，我們認為這些資產目前極具吸引力。

When we look at the market today and think about the macro economy, one is the economy feels as much as, quite frankly, early in the quarter, a little bit concerned with all the geopolitical risk that's going on. Right now, when you look over the course of the past quarter, a number of companies' reported earnings. So I think everybody is expecting higher earnings on a go-forward basis. The economy feels pretty good while saying that we do feel that we're going to get one or two rate cuts this year.

當我們觀察今天的市場並思考宏觀經濟時，坦白說，在本季度初，經濟對正在發生的所有地緣政治風險感到有點擔憂。現在，回顧過去一個季度，許多公司都公佈了收益。因此我認為每個人都期待未來會更高收益。經濟狀況看起來相當不錯，但我們確實認為今年將會有一兩次降息。

When you think about the tariff situation, obviously, the President and the administration, they're deal guys, they continue to negotiate deals across the board, and we think that's going to continue. So while there could be blips where the markets sell off due to some uncertainties, we feel like -- especially in light of the European deal that got announced over the weekend and now the administration trying to extend deadlines around the China tariffs, we feel like the policy uncertainty is declining.

當你考慮關稅情況時，顯然，總統和政府都是交易員，他們繼續全面談判交易，我們認為這種情況將會持續下去。因此，儘管由於一些不確定性，市場可能會出現短暫的拋售，但我們認為——特別是考慮到週末宣布的歐洲協議以及現在政府試圖延長中國關稅的最後期限，我們感覺政策的不確定性正在下降。

Risk appetite across the board remains high. (inaudible) should continue to remain on the lower side right here. And what does that mean? That means all the products that we typically invest in should do much better. And then when we think about the yield curve, we have -- the way we have been hedging our book, we've had rate steepeners on for many, many months.

整體風險偏好仍然很高。 （聽不清楚）應該繼續保持在這裡的較低水平。那這意味著什麼？這意味著我們通常投資的所有產品都會表現得更好。然後，當我們考慮殖利率曲線時，我們——我們一直在對沖我們的帳簿的方式，我們已經讓利率趨於陡峭化很多個月了。

We're going to continue to maintain that posture, meaning that we think the long end here at, call it, 440 on the 10-year note and the front end at 390, we do think when the Fed cuts rates, the curve will continue to steepen. The issue that you have with the long end is that the government needs to continue to sell lots and lots of debt to fund the deficit. So what we're going to see over time, we think is a steeper yield curve.

我們將繼續保持這種姿態，這意味著我們認為這裡的長期利率為 10 年期國債的 440 點，短期利率為 390 點，我們確實認為，當聯準會降息時，曲線將繼續變陡。長期來看，問題在於政府需要繼續出售大量債務來彌補赤字。因此，我們認為隨著時間的推移，我們將看到殖利率曲線變得更加陡峭。

And then at the bottom, we just talk about some of the different things around ABF and the Rithm platform. As I flip through, I'll just hit a couple of highlights and then I'll turn it back to Baron. Genesis business again. leader in the RTL business, looking to grow that business over time. That could be through just more direct origination or through some acquisition.

然後在底部，我們只討論 ABF 和 Rithm 平台的一些不同之處。當我翻閱時，我只會點擊幾個亮點，然後我會把它轉回 Baron。再次創世紀業務。 RTL 業務的領導者，希望隨著時間的推移發展該業務。這可以透過更直接的發起或透過某種收購來實現。

Again, when we bought the company, we did -- I think we were doing something around $1.5 billion to $2 billion of origination. Now we're doing something north of $4 billion, and that should continue to grow. The one thing we want to be very, very careful of here is credit as we go forward.

再說一次，當我們收購這家公司時，我們確實做了——我認為我們做了大約 15 億到 20 億美元的起源。現在我們的投資金額已經超過 40 億美元，而且還會繼續成長。在我們前進的過程中，我們要非常非常小心的一件事就是信譽。

On the Asset Management side, there's been no shortage of comments from me or any of us on our desire to grow our Asset Management business. You may ask why. And when you think about valuations, Rithm as a company, which makes north of $1 billion a year trades, something between 6 and 7 times EBITDA.

在資產管理方面，我或我們中的任何人都不乏對擴大資產管理業務的願望的評論。你可能會問為什麼。當你考慮估值時，Rithm 作為一家年營業額超過 10 億美元的公司，其交易額是 EBITDA 的 6 到 7 倍。

When you think about Asset Management businesses, they could trade as high as from 20 to 30 times on fee-related earnings. So we have a huge push not to give up what got us here, which is our earnings, our balance sheet and the wonderful work that the teams do around either the operating companies or on the investment side, but to additionally grow our asset management capabilities.

當您考慮資產管理業務時，它們的收費相關收益的交易價格可能高達 20 到 30 倍。因此，我們竭盡全力不放棄讓我們走到今天這一步的因素，即我們的收益、我們的資產負債表以及團隊在運營公司或投資方面所做的出色工作，同時還要進一步提升我們的資產管理能力。

So you're going to see a lot more from us there. While saying that, we just have to be mindful of multiples where some of the Asset Management businesses trade.

因此您將在那裡看到我們更多的內容。話雖這麼說，我們還是必須注意一些資產管理業務的交易倍數。

Rithm Property Trust, very, very excited about this. It's small now. It's about $300 million of equity. We're sitting with about $100 million of cash and liquidity on balance sheet. This will grow for us, likely will grow through some kind of M&A activity. And this is kind of no different than the way that we built New Residential going back to our Fortress days where we started with $1 billion of capital, and we grew it over time through acquisitions, you're going to hopefully see the same thing from us on the Rithm Property Trust side.

Rithm Property Trust 對此感到非常非常興奮。現在它很小了。其股權價值約為 3 億美元。我們的資產負債表上有大約 1 億美元的現金和流動資金。這將為我們帶來成長，很可能透過某種併購活動來成長。這與我們建立 New Residential 的方式沒有什麼不同，早在 Fortress 時期，我們以 10 億美元的資本起步，然後透過收購逐漸增加資本，希望您能在 Rithm Property Trust 方面看到我們做同樣的事情。

Page 16, we have a spec, $200 million, gives you buying power of about $1.5 billion. We continue to focus on what I would call, acquisitions across the board, could be in financial services could be in so-called energy transition. That's this vehicle which trades on the NYSE. We're very excited about to find the right target and opportunity to create real value again for shareholders.

第 16 頁，我們有一個規格，2 億美元可以為您提供約 15 億美元的購買力。我們將繼續關注我所謂的全面收購，可能是金融服務領域，也可能是所謂的能源轉型領域。這就是在紐約證券交易所交易的工具。我們非常高興能夠找到正確的目標和機會，再次為股東創造真正的價值。

Finally, what I'll do is -- on the Newrez side, I'm going to turn it over to Baron. But just overall, when you think about whether it be the mortgage company or all the other business lines that we have, results matter first, results will lead to higher AUM. And then hopefully, we get a proper revaluation of our overall company as we think about the growth trajectories of where we're going and actually the sum of the parts.

最後，我要做的是——在 Newrez 方面，我將把它交給 Baron。但總的來說，無論是抵押貸款公司還是我們所有的其他業務線，結果都是最重要的，結果將帶來更高的 AUM。然後，希望我們在思考公司的發展軌跡以及各部分的實際總和時，能夠對整個公司進行適當的重新評估。

So with that, Baron, why don't I turn it over to you and you could take the mortgage company.

那麼，巴倫，我為什麼不把它交給你，然後你就可以接管抵押貸款公司了。

Thank you, Michael. Good morning, everyone. Starting on slide 18. Another great quarter. And as Michael mentioned, as we execute on our '25 growth strategy, we had wins in recapture, growth of our third-party fee-based servicing business, and inefficiencies driven by our resi AI initiatives.

謝謝你，麥可。大家早安。從投影片 18 開始。又一個出色的季度。正如邁克爾所提到的，當我們執行我們的 25 年成長策略時，我們在重新奪回、第三方收費服務業務的成長以及由我們的 resi AI 計劃導致的低效率方面取得了勝利。

Our second-quarter pretax income, excluding mark-to-market was approximately $275 million, up 2% quarter over quarter and 20% year over year and delivered a 19% ROE for the quarter. These results continue to show the plower of our platform really through our ability to drive consistent earnings with the results first ethos, right? And a focus on organic growth, and adding new partnerships, and Michael will continue to talk about opportunistic acquisitions.

我們第二季的稅前收入（不包括以市價計算）約為 2.75 億美元，季增 2%，年增 20%，本季的股本回報率為 19%。這些結果繼續表明，我們的平台確實能夠透過我們以結果為先的精神推動持續獲利，對嗎？重點是有機成長和增加新的合作夥伴關係，邁克爾將繼續談論機會性收購。

Turning to slide 19. Our Originations business remained in growth mode. We're now the fourth largest originator with $16 billion in funded volume, which is up 38% over last quarter. And while market competition continues to drive margin compression, our disciplined focus on profitable growth allowed us to opportunistically pick up market share while maximizing PTI and ROE for the quarter.

翻到第 19 張投影片。我們的發起業務仍維持成長模式。我們現在是第四大發起人，融資額達 160 億美元，比上一季成長了 38%。儘管市場競爭持續壓縮利潤率，但我們專注於獲利成長，這使我們能夠抓住機會搶佔市場份額，同時最大化本季的稅前利潤和淨資產收益率。

We also expect future growth without having to chase volume through price, and this is evidenced by the launch of our Newrez Direct platform, which is focused on purchase recapture and a digital realtor partnership, allowing us to better support consumers through their home buying journey.

我們也預計未來的成長不必透過價格來追求銷量，這從我們推出的 Newrez Direct 平台就可以看出，該平台專注於重新獲得購買量和數位房地產經紀人合作夥伴關係，使我們能夠更好地支持消費者完成購房過程。

Turning to slide 20. Our platform investments can also drive gains and recapture, right, as we deliver on our brand promise to maximize customer retention. While a reduction in rates would benefit overall origination volumes, our momentum in connecting with our consumers on purchase transactions and home equity products is key to our balance of sustainable growth in any market.

翻到第 20 張投影片。我們的平台投資也可以推動收益和重新奪回，因為我們兌現了最大限度地保留客戶的品牌承諾。雖然降低利率將有利於整體發起量，但我們在購買交易和房屋淨值產品方面與消費者建立聯繫的勢頭是我們在任何市場實現可持續增長的關鍵。

Our recapture strategy is now being driven by our new Chief Commercial Officer, Leslie Gillin, who was previously Chief Marketing Officer at JPMorgan and she joined us this month. Customer retention remains a top growth strategy for us, and we're committed to delivering exceptional customer experience that differentiates our platform versus our competition.

我們的奪回策略目前由新任商務長 Leslie Gillin 推動，她曾任摩根大通的首席行銷官，並於本月加入我們。客戶保留仍然是我們最重要的成長策略，我們致力於提供卓越的客戶體驗，使我們的平台在競爭中脫穎而出。

Moving to slide 21. In continuing the theme of opportunities, we offer a differentiated product strategy through our manufacturing capabilities and non-agency assets. And when you couple that with our special servicing expertise, we're able to support clients and maximizing the performance of their investments. We are gaining market share in non-QM originations, but expect to see similar growth in both home equity and our prime jumbo products, right?

移至第 21 張投影片。在延續機會主題的同時，我們透過製造能力和非代理資產提供差異化的產品策略。當您將其與我們的特殊服務專業知識結合時，我們就能為客戶提供支援並最大限度地提高他們的投資效益。我們在非 QM 發起領域的市場份額正在不斷增長，但預計房屋淨值和我們的優質巨額產品也會有類似的增長，對嗎？

Our partnership with Rithm and third-party servicing clients are the strength of our franchise as shown in our ability to retain 98% of the clients we service for today.

我們與 Rithm 和第三方服務客戶的合作關係是我們特許經營的優勢，正如我們能夠保留目前 98% 的客戶所證明的那樣。

Moving to slide 22. Our Servicing business continues to perform well with $234 million of pretax income, which is up 5% year over year. Our special servicing platform is the best in the business, and we continue to gain market share, as shown by increases in our servicing balances of 7% quarter over quarter and 22% year over year. These results were driven by adding 10 new clients in the second quarter, and we boarded $61 billion since the beginning of the year.

移至投影片 22。我們的服務業務持續表現良好，稅前收入達 2.34 億美元，年增 5%。我們的特殊服務平台是業內最好的，我們的市場份額不斷增加，我們的服務餘額環比增長 7%，同比增長 22%。這些業績得益於第二季新增 10 位客戶，自今年年初以來我們的營收已達 610 億美元。

We continue to see opportunities to grow, whether through increasing wallet share with our existing clients or acquisition opportunities of both portfolios or operating platforms. Our performance across the Servicing business is also driven by our operational efficiency enabled by our proprietary technology and scale that drives our cost leadership at a fully loaded $142 cost per loan.

我們繼續看到成長機會，無論是透過增加現有客戶的錢包份額，還是透過收購投資組合或營運平台的機會。我們服務業務的業績也得益於我們的營運效率，這得益於我們的專有技術和規模，使我們的成本處於領先地位，每筆貸款的成本僅為 142 美元。

Finally, on slide 23, our technology enhancements and AI initiatives are continuing to drive our costs lower. We are starting to see significant gains from our resi AI investments. These initial tools are not only driving returns but also focused on homeowner experience, up-leveling our operational workflow, and powering our predictive analytics.

最後，在第 23 張投影片上，我們的技術改進和人工智慧計畫正在繼續降低我們的成本。我們開始看到住宅 AI 投資的顯著效益。這些初始工具不僅能推動回報，而且還注重房主體驗、提升我們的營運工作流程並為我們的預測分析提供支援。

We have a robust road map and this development is being driven by our new CIO, Brian Woodring, previously Chief Technology Officer at Rocket, who joined us last quarter. I continue to believe our business is as best positioned as it ever has been, and I look forward to sharing the next chapter of the Newrez growth story with -- all with you.

我們擁有完善的路線圖，這項發展由我們的新任資訊長 Brian Woodring 推動，他曾擔任 Rocket 的首席技術官，於上個季度加入我們。我仍然相信我們的業務處於最佳狀態，我期待與大家分享 Newrez 成長故事的下一篇章。

Thanks, Baron. Operator, why don't we turn it back to you for some Q&A.

謝謝，巴倫。接線員，我們為什麼不把話題轉回給您一些問答呢？

(Operator Instructions) Bose George, KBW.

（操作員指示）Bose George，KBW。

I wanted to start with a question on [Ures]. Any updated thoughts on when or if you might do something there in terms of listing? And then just on that slide 6, there are obviously a lot of other things that you're looking at as well, so anything that you want to comment on there in terms of unlocking value.

我想先問一個問題[烏雷斯]。關於何時或是否可能在上市方面採取一些行動，您有什麼最新的想法嗎？然後就在幻燈片 6 上，顯然您還在看很多其他東西，所以您想就解鎖價值方面發表任何評論。

Ye\ah. I think we spent -- obviously, Bose, good morning, first of all. We spend a lot of time looking at how we get our -- how we're going to get our stock price to be what we think it should be. I think right now, when you look at the company and the growth of the company, we're likely not going to list it separate today. We're going to continue to grow the business, as Baron pointed out, whether that be through investments in people.

是的。我想我們花了——顯然，Bose，首先，早安。我們花了很多時間研究如何讓我們的股價達到我們認為應該達到的水平。我認為現在，當你看公司和公司的成長時，我們今天可能不會將其單獨列出。正如巴倫指出的那樣，我們將繼續發展業務，無論是透過對人才的投資。

We've made two significant hires over the past quarter, and we've made some real changes there. But really, how do we grow earnings there. And then once we continue to do that, and that's something we're very much focused on and grow our footprint in third-party servicing, which the team has done a great job doing during the quarter.

我們在過去的一個季度中進行了兩次重要的招聘，並做出了一些真正的改變。但實際上，我們如何在那裡增加收益？一旦我們繼續這樣做，我們就會非常關注這一點，並擴大我們在第三方服務領域的影響力，我們的團隊在本季在這方面做得非常出色。

Then I think you're going to start to see the feel -- the full realization as far as what that so-called company is worth. One of the things we struggle with is like, when you look at the so-called sum of the parts or you look at the real inputs that go into this business, and I think about some of the larger asset management businesses out there, like everybody is -- and I'm not going to use the word complicated, it's complicated, but everybody has got some kind of story around all of their underlying businesses.

然後我想你就會開始明白這種感覺──完全認清那個所謂的公司的價值。我們面臨的一個問題是，當你看所謂的各部分總和或看投入到這個業務的實際投入時，我想到一些較大的資產管理業務，就像每個人一樣 - 我不會使用“複雜”這個詞，它很複雜，但每個人都對他們所有的基礎業務都有某種故事。

I think we have very -- the same, I think part of the challenge is for us, we're going to continue -- or not the challenge. We're going to continue to go down the same path in building our Origination businesses, which I pointed out in our in our opening remarks. ABF is a product that's more invoked today than ever been. Some of the products that Baron and his team create now when you look at, for example, the non-QM market. We're doing more and more in that space.

我認為我們面臨的挑戰非常——同樣，我認為部分挑戰對我們來說，我們將繼續——或者不再繼續這個挑戰。我們將繼續沿著同樣的道路建造我們的起源業務，這一點我在開場白中指出過。ABF 是一種如今比以往更受青睞的產品。例如，當你觀察非 QM 市場時，你會發現 Baron 和他的團隊現在創造的一些產品。我們在該領域做得越來越多。

It's a product that's in very much in demand for the so-called ABF funds that we and others have. You look at jumbo product, you're going to continue to see more. We have a lot of uncertainty now with around what's going to happen, whether the government privatizes Fannie and Freddie how do we think about that? That will be a great opportunity for us as we go down the road.

這是我們和其他機構所謂的 ABF 基金非常需要的產品。當你看到巨型產品時，你會看到更多。我們現在對未來會發生什麼事有很多不確定性，政府是否會將房利美和房地美私有化，我們對此有何看法？這對我們來說將是一個很好的機會。

So I think for now, our mission on the mortgage company is to continue to grow it, drive higher ROEs around that. Be thoughtful about what we're doing, Baron pointed out, bulk purchases. Do we want to buy bulk MSR is at 6.5 multiples? I'm not really sure.

因此我認為，就目前而言，我們對抵押貸款公司的使命是繼續發展它，並提高 ROE。巴倫指出，要認真考慮我們正在做的事情，批量採購。我們是否要以 6.5 倍數批量購買 MSR？我不太確定。

So everything is around the growth there. When I look at the so-called sum of the parts, really what's going to be the -- what's going to dial us up and I think create more of a differentiation around our business as we go forward is going to be around the Asset Management business.

所以一切都圍繞著那裡的成長。當我看所謂的各部分總和時，真正能為我們帶來動力的，並且我認為，隨著我們前進，能讓我們的業務更加差異化的，將是資產管理業務。

We continue to look at what I would say, some folks in the Asset Management business. We want to scale up our credit. We want to have -- we want to scale up. We want to do stuff in insurance, so we're very much focused on the M&A landscape in those business lines as well, while recognizing that we're not going to pay 20 or 30 times for an Asset Management business, but we're going to try to add to bolt-ons that are going to enable us to grow the platform overall.

我們繼續關注我想說的話，資產管理業務中的一些人。我們希望擴大我們的信貸規模。我們希望——我們希望擴大規模。我們想在保險領域有所作為，因此我們也非常關注這些業務線的併購前景，同時我們認識到我們不會為資產管理業務支付 20 或 30 倍的價格，但我們會嘗試添加附加功能，使我們能夠整體發展平台。

Okay, great. That's helpful. And then actually just to follow up on the insurance, are there, vehicles out there, insurance companies that you're looking at just from the acquisition side, and also is this, can the SPAC play a role in that or is that if anything happens, is that a Rithm?

好的，太好了。這很有幫助。然後實際上只是為了跟進保險，有沒有車輛，有沒有保險公司，你只是從收購方面來考慮，還有，SPAC 能否在其中發揮作用，或者如果發生任何事情，那就是 Rithm 嗎？

I think on the insurance side it's likely going to happen at Rithm, our M&A team has been at it. We've looked at insurance for the past number of years. Hard to get your arms around -- from evaluation standpoint.

我認為在保險方面，這很可能發生在 Rithm，我們的併購團隊一直在做這件事。過去幾年我們一直在關注保險。從評估的角度來看，很難理解。

While saying that, there are some opportunities and some things that we're working on where we could potentially acquire either an insurance business or some company that has an insurance business and grow it. So the idea for us would be do something a little bit smaller and then grow it rather than go all in on an insurance business that is already full scale and trading it too high of a premium.

話雖如此，我們正在努力抓住一些機會，做一些事情，我們可能會收購一家保險公司或一些擁有保險業務的公司，並使其成長。因此，我們的想法是先做一些小規模的事情，然後再發展壯大，而不是全力投入已經全面發展的保險業務，並以過高的保費進行交易。

And then on the back front, it's wide open to look at pretty much anything right now.

然後在後面，它完全敞開，現在可以看到幾乎任何東西。

Okay, great, thanks.

好的，太好了，謝謝。

Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

克里斯賓·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

So there's been a bunch of changes in the mortgage market in recent quarters. Rates remain elevated. We've seen some M&A with (inaudible) and then some smaller ones out there. Can you just share how that might impact Newrez's strategy as it relates to the channels you're most focused on penetrating across retail, broker, and correspondent, as you are involved in all three? And just where you might expect to lean into most and drive that incremental growth you've been talking about.

近幾個季度抵押貸款市場發生了一系列變化。利率仍居高不下。我們看到了一些（聽不清楚）的併購，還有一些規模較小的併購。您能否分享這將如何影響 Newrez 的策略，因為它與您最關注的零售、經紀和代理商管道相關，因為您參與了這三個領域？這正是您可能期望最能發揮影響力並推動您一直在談論的漸進式增長的地方。

I mean, I think that the growth is going to come -- actually, why -- I mean, just to give you an example, our non-QM business has grown dramatically over the course of the past quarter, and what we've done there is we've opened up new origination channels both through correspondent and wholesale. So that's an area for example where, going back to last year, what did we do last year? 1.5 or 2 billion or so? Yeah, and this year we're going to do --

我的意思是，我認為成長即將到來——實際上，為什麼——我的意思是，僅舉一個例子，我們的非 QM 業務在過去一個季度中大幅增長，我們在那裡所做的就是通過代理和批發開闢了新的起源渠道。舉例來說，回顧去年，我們去年做了什麼？15億或20億左右？是的，今年我們要--

Our forecast is up to $4 billion.

我們的預測是高達 40 億美元。

So like that's an example of where we're likely going to double the amount of origination. Part of this has to do with the relative value of the product, and as we think about, again the so-called ABF space, but that's an example. Barron alluded to hiring two extremely important hires for our business.

就像這個例子一樣，我們可能會將起源數量增加一倍。這部分與產品的相對價值有關，正如我們所想的，再次是所謂的 ABF 空間，但這只是一個例子。巴倫暗示要為我們的業務招募兩名極為重要的員工。

This one Leslie Gillin, who comes to us from Chase, who's very much focused on the growth in the Origination businesses and how we can make a difference for consumers. We added Brian from Rocket who's very focused on technology and where we're going to go with AI, and create potentially either more efficiencies and/or technology saves.

這位是來自大通銀行的萊斯利·吉林 (Leslie Gillin)，她非常關注起源業務的成長以及我們如何為消費者帶來改變。我們從 Rocket 公司聘請了 Brian，他非常關注技術以及人工智慧的發展方向，並有可能提高效率和/或節省技術成本。

On the M&A front, there's not that -- quite frankly, last year we bought [SPS]. There's just not that much left for us to do in that space because we feel like we have everything. While saying that, if there's something that we think is going to be accretive to what we do, we'll likely go after it. The other thing that we're focused on is where can we -- how do we figure out a way to lower our cost of servicing.

在併購方面，沒有——坦白說，去年我們收購了[安全與穩定政策]我們在那個空間裡能做的事情不多了，因為我們覺得我們已經擁有了一切。儘管如此，如果我們認為某件事會對我們所做的事情有所好處，我們很可能會去做。我們關注的另一件事是，我們可以在哪裡——如何找到降低服務成本的方法。

Baron, maybe you want to just touch on that and what we've done there?

巴倫，也許你想簡單談談這一點以及我們在那裡做了什麼？

Yeah, I mean, on slide -- I'll just make sure I get the right one. On slide 23, we kind of highlighted some of the initial wins we've had on what I'll say is our technology enhancements and our different AI initiatives and we really, whether it's on the chatbot side or whether it's on our telephony side or any of our operational workflows where we've incorporated, our proprietary technology or brought in different technology partners to really drive our initiatives.

是的，我的意思是，在幻燈片上——我只是要確保我得到了正確的一個。在第 23 張投影片上，我們重點介紹了我們在技術增強和不同的人工智慧計畫方面取得的一些初步勝利，無論是在聊天機器人方面，還是在電話方面，還是在我們整合的任何營運工作流程中，我們都採用了我們的專有技術或引入了不同的技術合作夥伴來真正推動我們的計畫。

But we've seen significant cost benefits and we know where our road map is driving us today. We're going to continue to see significant benefits across the board for what I'll say is our AI initiatives and our platform.

但我們已經看到了顯著的成本效益，我們知道我們的路線圖今天將把我們引向何方。我們將繼續看到我們的人工智慧計畫和平台在各個方面帶來顯著的效益。

Great, thank you. I appreciate that. And then just a second question for me on the value prop and optimizing Rithm's corporate structure, what do you view as the most logical and possible ways to do so over the near to intermediate term? What could that look like based on your answer to a prior question. Seems like the [Newrez] spend doesn't seem to be a near-term event, so just curious on kind of what you're looking at on the corporate structure standpoint.

太好了，謝謝。我很感激。然後我還有一個關於價值主張和優化 Rithm 公司結構的疑問，您認為在短期和中期內最合理、最可行的方法是什麼？根據您對先前問題的回答，那會是什麼樣子？看來 [Newrez] 的支出似乎不是近期事件，所以我只是好奇您從公司結構的角度來看待什麼。

So we continue to evaluate so-called growing Rithm Asset Management. We continue to evaluate the merits of a C-Corp. In doing both of those, we need to make sure that we have scale at all parts of our business. So meaning, on the REIT side, it's got to be big enough that we have a standalone REIT, not different, quite frankly, than what Blackstone has done around BXMT and their broader business. Obviously, we're not Blackstone, but something similar to that.

因此我們繼續評估所謂的成長型 Rithm Asset Management。我們繼續評估 C 公司的優點。在做這兩件事時，我們需要確保我們業務的各個部分都具有規模。所以，就房地產投資信託基金 (REIT) 而言，它的規模必須足夠大，這樣我們才能擁有一個獨立的 REIT，坦率地說，這與黑石集團圍繞 BXMT 及其更廣泛的業務所做的沒有什麼不同。顯然，我們不是黑石集團，但與其類似。

So the idea would be you'd have a REIT, you'd have a C-Corp, and then you'd have your wholly owned subs and your asset management businesses, and that's really -- that's how we're trying to march forward. We need to create more scale on the REIT side to be able to create the C-Corp at the asset management side, and we need to create more FRE at the asset management side. So all of those things continue to be in play.

所以，我們的想法是，你會擁有一個房地產投資信託基金 (REIT)，你會擁有一個 C 類公司，然後你會擁有你的全資子公司和資產管理業務，這就是我們努力向前邁進的方式。我們需要在 REIT 方面創造更大的規模，以便能夠在資產管理方面創建 C-Corp，並且我們需要在資產管理方面創建更多的 FRE。所以所有這些事情都將繼續發揮作用。

Perfect. Makes sense. I appreciate you taking my questions, Michael and Baron

完美的。有道理。感謝你們回答我的問題，麥可和巴倫

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

BTIG 的 Eric Hagen。

How do you guys think about capital allocation across the business right now? The flexibility to maybe move capital from one segment to the other? I mean, is the partnership at Genesis, is that going to support allocating capital to others segments maybe more easily or something? And do you feel like any of the four segments would get valued higher in the market if they operated with more leverage?

你們現在如何看待整個企業的資本配置？是否可以靈活地將資本從一個部分轉移到另一個部分？我的意思是，Genesis 的合作夥伴關係是否會支持更輕鬆地向其他部門分配資本？您是否認為，如果這四個部門中的任何一個部門利用更多的槓桿來運營，它們的市場估值會更高？

So I -- it's an interesting question. I think when you take a step back and you look at Rithm, and this goes down to breaking out and to Bose earlier question, do you take -- do you isolate the mortgage company from Genesis? Do you isolate Genesis from the mortgage company? All of our corporate earnings go into what we -- the way that we like to think of it as a funnel.

所以我——這是一個有趣的問題。我認為，當你退一步看看 Rithm 時，這就會涉及到突破，回到 Bose 之前提出的問題，你會採取什麼措施——你會將抵押貸款公司與 Genesis 隔離開來嗎？您是否將 Genesis 與抵押貸款公司隔離？我們所有的公司收益都進入了我們喜歡稱之為漏斗的地方。

From there, we could allocate capital as we see needed to the different segments that we're focused on that we think are going to generate the largest returns for our shareholders and the best kind of investment results for our LPs. So when we think about Genesis, we have -- we closed the quarter with a record amount of cash and liquidity of $2.1 billion.

從那裡，我們可以根據需要將資本分配到我們關注的不同領域，我們認為這些領域將為我們的股東帶來最大的回報，並為我們的 LP 帶來最佳的投資結果。因此，當我們考慮 Genesis 時，我們——我們以創紀錄的 21 億美元現金和流動資金結束了本季。

We look at Genesis and that business can and will continue to grow. It is highly competitive now because, quite frankly, many LPs want this type of product. And the other thing is what you're seeing from some of the other kind of RTL originators is a much more either refocused effort or a desire to create the product.

我們關注 Genesis，其業務能夠並且將繼續成長。現在競爭非常激烈，因為坦白說，許多 LP 都想要這種類型的產品。另一件事是，你從其他類型的 RTL 發起人那裡看到的是，他們要么更加集中精力，要么更渴望創造產品。

So we just want to make sure that we're thoughtful. Number one has to be around credit and then two, as we think about the returns. But we're fairly agnostic. We're not going to go all in on any one strategy, but we can allocate capital whether if there's an M&A acquisition, for example, in the Genesis business, we'll go there.

所以我們只是想確保我們是經過深思熟慮的。首要的是信用，其次才是回報。但我們對此相當不確定。我們不會全力投入任何一種策略，但我們可以分配資本，無論是否有併購，例如在 Genesis 業務中，我們都會去做。

We're focused -- a couple of areas that we don't have right now when you think about it is, on the lending side, think about a type of one main financial. That would be good to get something on the consumer side of the business that we currently don't have.

我們重點關注的是——當你想到這一點時，我們現在還沒有的幾個領域是，在貸款方面，考慮一種主要的金融類型。這將有助於我們在消費者業務方面獲得一些我們目前所沒有的東西。

So the short answer, Eric, is that the money goes into the funnel, the funnel can then allocate the money across the different platforms to support the Asset Management business and other things. Another good example is we support the Sculptor CLO business, right? Rithm takes approximately 50% of the equity on every CLO deal at the Sculptor level.

所以，艾瑞克，簡而言之，資金進入漏斗，然後漏斗可以在不同的平台上分配資金，以支援資產管理業務和其他業務。另一個很好的例子是我們支援 Sculptor CLO 業務，對嗎？Rithm 在 Sculptor 層級的每筆 CLO 交易中佔有約 50% 的股權。

We organize -- at some point, we'll roll out CLO equity funds. But right now, that's been the MO over the course of the past year. So a lot of support, not only for growing different investment strategies, but also for our portfolio companies.

我們組織—在某個時候，我們將推出 CLO 股票基金。但就目前而言，這就是過去一年來的做法。因此，我們不僅為發展不同的投資策略提供了大量支持，也為我們的投資組合公司提供了大量支持。

Yeah, good stuff, good response. Thank you. I mean, how do you guys think rate cuts from the Fed will drive the pace of capital raising both for Sculptor and for the other diversified asset managers out there? I mean, do you think lower rates will potentially reduce the expected returns and raise valuations for the asset classes that Sculptor competes in?

是的，好東西，反應很好。謝謝。我的意思是，你們認為聯準會降息將如何推動 Sculptor 和其他多元化資產管理公司的融資步伐？我的意思是，您是否認為較低的利率可能會降低預期回報並提高 Sculptor 所競爭的資產類別的估值？

Listen, raising capital is -- it is an absolutely full-time job. I mean, if you think about the asset management world today and where folks are headed, you could hear the largest asset managers talking about their growth in the wealth channels and retail. There's been some articles on the go-forward in the 401(k) market opening up to large-scale asset managers.

聽著，籌集資金——這絕對是一項全職工作。我的意思是，如果你思考當今的資產管理世界以及人們的發展方向，你會聽到最大的資產管理公司談論他們在財富管道和零售方面的成長。已經有一些關於 401（k）市場向大型資產管理公司開放的文章。

When we look at capital formation, I can tell you, I've been across the globe 7 times in two years as well as with some of my other colleagues, part of it's brand building and then the other part is, what is the suite of products you have to offer that LP and how does that work in today's environment? So to your question, when you think about lower rates, I think rates are going to be lower in the front end.

當我們考慮資本形成時，我可以告訴你，我和我的一些其他同事在兩年內已經去過全球七次，一部分是為了品牌建設，另一部分是，你必須為該 LP 提供什麼樣的產品套件，以及它在當今環境下如何運作？所以對於您的問題，當您考慮降低利率時，我認為前端利率會更低。

What does that do? That's going to help your financing. Longer term though, it's going to lower your absolute level of asset yields, particularly if they're priced off their front end. So I think it remains to be seen. I think the way that we're approaching it is going to continue to be focused on our core knitting. Our ABS experience, in my opinion, is second to none.

那有什麼作用？這將有助於您的融資。但從長期來看，這將降低資產收益率的絕對水平，特別是如果它們的定價是基於前端的。所以我認為這還有待觀察。我認為我們處理這個問題的方式將繼續集中在我們的核心針織上。在我看來，我們的 ABS 經驗是首屈一指的。

When I look at our teams here, we've been together for 30-plus years. So I think it remains to be seen, but I don't -- I think spreads could come in on mortgage product because it's cheap on a relative basis compared to corporates. But in general, lower yields are -- if rates really did plummet, won't be that beneficial to fixed income investors, is what I would say.

當我看到我們這裡的團隊時，我們已經在一起30多年了。所以我認為這還有待觀察，但我不認為——我認為抵押貸款產品的利差可能會出現，因為與企業相比，它相對便宜。但總的來說，如果利率真的暴跌，較低的收益率對固定收益投資者來說並不那麼有利，這就是我要說的。

Yes, good stuff. If I could sneak in one more, the $7 billion that was raised at Sculptor in the quarter, which funds or strategies were those directed towards?

是的，好東西。如果我可以再偷偷問一句，Sculptor 本季籌集了 70 億美元，這些資金或策略是針對哪些資金或策略的？

The funds are more broad based. It could be something in the Real Estate business. It could be something around credit and from a specific standpoint -- the Real Estate business, I think looking at my Q1 comments was north of $3 billion there. Those guys have just knocked it out of the park, and not just from an AUM standpoint, the results are great.

這些基金的基礎更為廣泛。它可能與房地產業有關。它可能與信貸有關，從特定角度來看——房地產業務，根據我第一季的評論，我認為那裡的銷售額超過 30 億美元。這些人已經取得了巨大的成功，而且不僅從 AUM 的角度來看，他們的成果也是非常棒的。

Credit business continues to see inflows. The CLO business continues to grow. I pointed out that at the Rithm level we continue to work in partnerships supporting that business as well.

信貸業務持續流入。CLO 業務持續成長。我指出，在 Rithm 層面，我們將繼續合作支持這項業務。

Good stuff. Appreciate you, guys. Thank you.

好東西。感謝你們，夥計們。謝謝。

Randy Binner, B Riley.

蘭迪·賓納，B 萊利。

I have a couple. I guess first on slide 21, the non-QM or non-agency growth is pretty significant in the back half. Just trying to understand if that is a function of potential GSU reform or is that more just opportunity you see given kind of where rates and the housing market are?

我有一對。我想先在第 21 張投影片上，後半部的非 QM 或非代理商成長相當顯著。只是想了解這是否是 GSU 潛在改革的結果，或者這是否只是您根據利率和房地產市場現狀所看到的一個機會？

It is opportunistic, right, from where we are. We're just going to continue to see momentum, right? We've grown out our wholesale business. We've basically penetrated and grown our correspondent acquisitions, and our direct originations is really just driving where we are. There is a price competitive nature to it. Michael talked about the demand in the industry and where we're getting liquidity. So I would tell you it's a combination of all of those.

從我們目前的情況來看，這是機會主義的。我們將繼續看到這種勢頭，對嗎？我們的批發業務已經發展壯大。我們基本上已經滲透並發展了我們的代理收購，而我們的直接發起實際上只是推動著我們的現狀。它具有價格競爭性質。麥可談到了產業需求以及我們的流動性來源。所以我會告訴你它是所有這些的結合。

Okay, that's helpful. And then if we had movement on [GSE] reform and I think non-QM would pretty clearly be a market opportunity for you and your competitors. That growth could be even larger potentially or would that -- that wouldn't be something that would happen this year we'd be kind of looking longer term?

好的，這很有幫助。如果我們在 [GSE] 改革方面取得進展，我認為非 QM 顯然會為您和您的競爭對手帶來市場機會。這種成長可能還會更大，或者說——這不會是今年發生的事情，我們會著眼於更長遠的未來？

Yeah, I mean there's a, it's a -- it would obviously be for, what I'll call, the non-agency products would be a very, very significant opportunity. We're already looking at those opportunities today on certain agency eligible products. So absolutely I agree, yes.

是的，我的意思是，這顯然對於我所說的非代理產品來說是一個非常非常重要的機會。我們今天已經在尋找針對某些機構合格產品的機會。是的，我絕對同意。

Okay, got it. And then, if I could follow up, I think with Bose's question to Mike on the insurance M&A, I -- what type of insurance property would you be looking to buy? I just didn't -- I didn't understand if it was something that's mortgage related or just more broadly in the insurance area.

好的，明白了。然後，如果我可以跟進的話，我想針對 Bose 向 Mike 提出的有關保險併購的問題，我想問一下——您想購買什麼類型的保險財產？我只是不明白——我不明白這是否與抵押貸款有關，還是只是與保險領域有關。

It's more broad in the insurance area. We've looked at insurance for years, right? I mean, it makes sense when you think about our manufacturing capability to have these long-dated liabilities. So it could be P&C, it could be life and annuities type stuff, but we're always on the hunt.

在保險領域它的範圍更為廣泛。我們已經關注保險好幾年了，對吧？我的意思是，當你考慮到我們的製造能力時，承擔這些長期負債是有道理的。因此，它可能是財產和意外傷害保險，也可能是人壽和年金類型的東西，但我們一直在尋找。

Again, it won't be something that's as scaled as some of the larger asset managers, but I feel like we're getting closer on a so-called platform to be able to launch insurance products that would again help fund some of the things that we do here at Rithm.

再說一次，它不會像一些大型資產管理公司那樣規模龐大，但我覺得我們在所謂的平台上越來越接近推出保險產品，這將再次幫助我們在 Rithm 所做的一些事情提供資金。

Okay, so it's like a liability funding mechanism for your asset manager?

好的，那麼這就像是資產管理者的負債融資機制嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Got it. Correct. Alright, can I have one more if I can? This is all helpful. Just -- and credit -- and I think this is for Mike, but you said you're careful on credit and of course you are, but spreads are incredibly tight. Are there any areas that are kind of on the watch list for you right now?

知道了。正確的。好的，如果可以的話我可以再要一個嗎？這一切都很有幫助。只是──還有信用──我認為這是給麥克的，但你說過你在信用方面很謹慎，當然你是這樣的，但利差卻非常小。目前有哪些地區是您重點關注的嗎？

Yeah. No, I think -- listen, I think credit spreads overall are extremely well bid, right? You're in a very, very good credit market, particularly on the corporate side. When -- if you look at the globe and you think about credit and you think about Rithm Asset Management, whether it be at the Sculptor level or at the Rithm level, what we're trying to do is if you sit down with an LP, you want to be able to have a full menu of products to be able to offer as not every LP wants to have 10 more of the same person doing the same thing.

是的。不，我認為——聽著，我認為信用利差總體上非常好，對嗎？你們處在一個非常非常好的信貸市場，特別是在企業方面。當你放眼全球，思考信貸，思考 Rithm Asset Management 時，無論是在 Sculptor 級別還是在 Rithm 級別，我們試圖做的是，如果你與 LP 坐下來，你希望能夠擁有完整的產品菜單，因為不是每個 LP 都希望有 10 個相同的人做同樣的事情。

So some of the credit stuff that we'll be building out, for example, could be on the direct lending side. That's an area that we're focused on. Again, just to supplement some of the things. Keep in mind, Sculptor has been opportunistic and regular credit for -- essentially since inception. When I look at the credit markets on the mortgage side, I think mortgage credit is generally very, very attractive relative to corporates.

因此，我們將要建立的部分信貸業務可能屬於直接貸款方面。這是我們關注的領域。再次強調，只是為了補充一些內容。請記住，Sculptor 自成立以來就一直秉持機會主義並定期獲得讚譽。當我觀察抵押貸款方面的信貸市場時，我認為抵押貸款信貸相對於企業信貸通常非常非常有吸引力。

But my comments around credit are really more around, I think, on the corporate side, away from the underwriting side, on the corporate side. So we have products that we could offer to an LP that compete with others. Obviously, it's a very, very crowded space, as we all know.

但我認為，我對信貸的評論實際上更多地集中在企業方面，而不是承銷方面，而是企業方面。因此，我們可以向 LP 提供與其他公司競爭的產品。顯然，眾所周知，這是一個非常非常擁擠的空間。

The real question for Rithm is how do we create alpha versus some of the large-scale asset managers who have been in this for many, many years where some of the stuff could be beta placed for a number of LPs. So it's really -- I think there's -- I know there's room for us. And then the question is do we have the product to offer.

對 Rithm 來說，真正的問題是我們如何創造 alpha，而一些大型資產管理公司已經在這個領域工作了很多年，其中一些資產可以為許多 LP 提供 beta 版本。所以真的——我認為——我知道我們還有空間。那麼問題是我們是否有產品可以提供。

All right. Thanks for the responses. I appreciate it.

好的。感謝您的回覆。我很感激。

Doug Harter, UBS.

瑞銀的道格·哈特。

Hoping to talk a little bit more about the [SME] for the residential transition lending. As you think about that, how much of the new production kind of goes in there? And how do you think about the balance of third-part funds versus balance sheet? And then how replicatable is that kind of across your other asset generation assets?

希望進一步談談住宅過渡貸款的[中小企業]。想想看，有多少新產品投入其中？您如何看待第三方資金與資產負債表的平衡？那麼這種模式在您的其他資產生成資產中可複製性如何？

It's a great question, Doug. The -- when we look at -- when we look at balance sheet versus putting assets in funds, we need to do both because we need to maintain and grow earnings at the so-called Rithm level, at the parent level. This SME is something that we've been working on for established a relationship going back a couple of years ago, and it's something we've been working on for a long, long time.

這是一個很好的問題，道格。當我們查看資產負債表而不是將資產投入基金時，我們需要同時進行這兩項工作，因為我們需要在所謂的 Rithm 層級（即母公司層級）維持和增加收益。我們幾年前就一直在努力與這個中小企業建立合作關係，而且我們已經為此努力了很長時間。

So we're really, really excited. We do think this hopefully will lead into other opportunities to raise third-party capital, whether it be into funds or co-invest or even on the M&A front, where we're going to bring in partners. And I think that's the general theme of where we're going to go on a forward basis.

所以我們真的非常興奮。我們確實認為，這有望帶來籌集第三方資本的其他機會，無論是基金還是共同投資，甚至是在併購方面，我們都會引入合作夥伴。我認為這就是我們未來發展的整體主題。

So when you think about Rithm, the growth of the platform has to be on both sides. It has to be on both the fund side and it's got to be -- we don't want to balloon our balance sheet. Ideally, what we'd like to do is put everything we can in funds because it's a much better way to fund our business, but without giving up the earnings at the so-called corporate level because you have to get to scale first.

因此，當你考慮 Rithm 時，平台的成長必須是雙向的。它必須同時在基金方面，而且必須如此——我們不想讓我們的資產負債表膨脹。理想情況下，我們希望把所有資金都投入到基金中，因為這是為我們的業務提供資金的更好方式，但又不能放棄所謂的公司層面的收益，因為你必須先實現規模化。

So over the course of the next, what I would say, number of years, you're going to see the growth in both from an earnings perspective. And we just want to make sure from a funding vehicle standpoint, and this goes to the insurance questions that we just received, how do we think about funding our balance sheet. So I think you're going to see a little bit of both.

因此，我想說，在接下來的幾年裡，您將從獲利角度看到兩者的成長。我們只是想從融資工具的角度確保這一點，這涉及到我們剛剛收到的保險問題，我們如何考慮為我們的資產負債表提供資金。所以我認為你會看到兩者皆有。

Right, and then just -- as you've talked about kind of scaling the REIT, how do you think about raising capital at the Rithm level to scale that or how would you go ahead -- look to scale the REIT?

對，然後——正如您所談論的擴大 REIT 規模，您如何考慮在 Rithm 級別籌集資金來擴大規模，或者您將如何繼續——考慮擴大 REIT 規模？

I think -- again, I go back to the same thing. We are -- when we look at the REIT business and I'll use Rithm Property Trust as an example, think back to Fortress, think back to New Residential. We started that business with $1 billion of capital. Today, it has almost $8 billion. If you think about Rithm Property Trust today, it has $300 million of capital. We are not going to do a capital raise with the stock of whatever, give or take $2.70.

我想——我又回到了同樣的事情。當我們研究房地產投資信託基金 (REIT) 業務時，我會以 Rithm Property Trust 為例，回想一下 Fortress，回想一下 New Residential。我們以 10 億美元的資本啟動了這項業務。如今，其資產已接近 80 億美元。如果你考慮一下今天的 Rithm Property Trust，它擁有 3 億美元的資本。我們不會利用任何股票來籌集資金，無論其價格是 2.70 美元還是 2.70 美元。

While saying that, we think that commercial real estate opportunity is something that is there. It could be extremely attractive. We have to be really thoughtful about how we deploy capital. The likelihood on any large scale transaction would be to bring in third-party capital and partners.

儘管如此，我們認為商業房地產機會是存在的。它可能極具吸引力。我們必須認真考慮如何配置資本。任何大規模交易都有可能引入第三方資本和合作夥伴。

It's something very different than our early history where we did most things ourselves. We did do some stuff with some of the larger alt managers going back to the mid-teens. But I think on a go-forward basis, our new partners will likely be large scale LPs which -- who will help grow our business.

這與我們早期自己做大部分事情的歷史非常不同。我們確實與一些較大的 alt 經理合作過一些事情，可以追溯到十幾歲的時候。但我認為，從未來來看，我們的新合作夥伴很可能是大型 LP，他們將幫助我們發展業務。

No different, quite frankly, than I think what you've seen with the large alts.

坦白說，我認為這與你在大型替代品上看到的沒有什麼不同。

Great. Thank you, Michael.

偉大的。謝謝你，麥可。

Kenneth Lee, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Kenneth Lee。

Thanks for taking my question. Just wanted to follow up on that strategic partnership for the resi transition loans, and it sounds like it's an SME kind of vehicle there. Could you talk a little bit more about the potential economics there? Is this something where Rithm gets a management fee and could there also be performance fees related to such a thing?

感謝您回答我的問題。只是想跟進住宅過渡貸款的策略合作夥伴關係，聽起來這是一種中小企業類型的工具。您能否再多談談那裡的潛在經濟狀況？Rithm 是否會從中獲得管理費？是否還會有與此相關的表演費？

It's both, as you think about this on a go-forward basis. While saying that, it's not, quite frankly, this is not -- I think the game changer for some of these things that we're doing are more about the strategic relationship and partnership as we bring in third-party capital to our business and the doors that hopefully, it opens up as we look at many other things across the board.

從長遠角度考慮，兩者皆有。雖然這麼說，但坦白說，這並不是——我認為，我們正在做的一些事情的改變更多的是關於戰略關係和夥伴關係，因為我們為我們的業務引入了第三方資本，並且希望它能打開大門，因為我們會全面審視許多其他事情。

As you know, being a REIT distributing, call it, almost $550 million a year in dividends is not a great way to retain capital. So we'll always need more capital until we get to a critical mass and going back, I think, to some of the earlier questions about how do we think about our capital structure, whether it's a C-Corp or REIT, how we retain more earnings, all these things and bringing in third-party capital are going to help us do that.

如您所知，作為房地產投資信託基金 (REIT)，每年分配近 5.5 億美元的股息並不是保留資本的好方法。因此，在達到臨界規模之前，我們總是需要更多的資本，我想，回到之前的一些問題，即我們如何考慮我們的資本結構，無論是 C 公司還是房地產投資信託基金 (REIT)，我們如何保留更多收益，所有這些以及引入第三方資本都將幫助我們做到這一點。

The economics on certain things that we're doing in the funds business, and it's not specific to Rithm, quite frankly, you're seeing management fees come in a bunch, and -- but when we think about what we're doing here, we have management fees, and we have performance fees across the board.

我們在基金業務中所做的某些事情的經濟學，並不特定於 Rithm，坦率地說，你會看到管理費用成堆地湧入，但是當我們考慮我們在這裡所做的事情時，我們有管理費，我們有全面的績效費。

Got you. Great, very helpful there. And just one follow up if I may, and this is just another follow up on the potential M&A there and you talked about insurance being a potential area, it sounds like if there's going to be a pursuit of liability funding kind of businesses, would this also potentially include like fixed annuity platforms, something that we've seen other alternative managers engaging as well.

明白了。太棒了，非常有幫助。如果可以的話，我只想跟進一下，這只是對潛在併購的另一個跟進，您談到保險是一個潛在領域，聽起來如果要追求責任融資類型的業務，這是否也可能包括固定年金平台，我們已經看到其他另類經理也在參與其中。

It could. It absolutely could. I -- we have to start somewhere and like I said, we're not going to -- we can't afford, and we don't think it would be the right thing for shareholders as well to go out and buy a fully scaled insurance business today at the multiples where they're trading. So we're going to have to start somewhere which we believe that we can do and then grow no different than what we've done with a number of our other businesses.

有可能。絕對可以。我 — — 我們必須從某個地方開始，就像我說過的，我們不會 — — 我們承擔不起，而且我們認為，對於股東來說，以目前交易的市盈率去購買一家規模龐大的保險業務並不是正確之舉。因此，我們必須從我們相信可以做到的地方開始，然後像我們在其他一些業務中所做的那樣不斷發展。

Great, very helpful there. Thanks again.

太棒了，非常有幫助。再次感謝。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to have the conference back over for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我希望會議能夠再次結束，並發表閉幕詞。

Well, thanks to everybody for joining the call this morning. Thanks to all of you for your questions. We look forward to updating you throughout the quarter and next quarter and hopefully continue to put up the same wonderful results that that we did this quarter. Enjoy the rest of the summer, everybody. Thank you.

好吧，感謝大家今天早上參加電話會議。感謝大家的提問。我們期待在整個季度和下一季向您更新訊息，並希望繼續取得與本季度一樣出色的成績。大家好好享受剩下的夏天吧。謝謝。

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。