Rithm Capital Corp (RITM) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Rithm Capital third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to Emma Bolla, Associate General Counsel. Please go ahead.

美好的一天，歡迎參加 Rithm Capital 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）我現在想將會議轉交給副總法律顧問艾瑪·博拉 (Emma Bolla)。請繼續。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. I would like to thank you for joining us today for Rithm Capital's third quarter 2024 earnings call. Joining me today are Michael Nierenberg, Chairman, CEO, and President of Rithm Capital; Nick Santoro, Chief Financial Officer of Rithm Capital; and Baron Silverstein, President of Newrez. Throughout the call, we are going to reference earnings supplement that was posted this morning to the Rithm Capital website, www.rithmcap.com. If you've not already done so, I'd encourage you to download the presentation now.

謝謝大家，大家早安。我要感謝您今天參加 Rithm Capital 的 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天與我一起出席的還有 Rithm Capital 董事長、執行長兼總裁 Michael Nierenberg； Nick Santoro，Rithm Capital 財務長；以及 Newrez 總裁 Baron Silverstein。在整個電話會議中，我們將參考今天早上發佈在 Rithm Capital 網站 www.rithmcap.com 上的收益補充資料。如果您還沒有下載演示文稿，我建議您立即下載。

I would like to point out that certain statements made today will be forward-looking statements. These statements, by their nature, are uncertain and may differ materially from actual results. I encourage you to review the disclaimers in our press release and earnings supplement regarding forward-looking statements and to review the risk factors contained in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC. In addition, we will be discussing some non-GAAP financial measures during today's call. Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in our earnings supplement.

我想指出，今天發表的某些陳述將是前瞻性陳述。這些陳述本質上是不確定的，可能與實際結果有重大差異。我鼓勵您查看我們的新聞稿和收益補充中有關前瞻性陳述的免責聲明，並查看我們向 SEC 提交的年度和季度報告中包含的風險因素。此外，我們將在今天的電話會議上討論一些非公認會計準則財務指標。這些指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的調整可以在我們的收益補充中找到。

And with that, I will turn the call over to Michael.

然後，我會將電話轉給麥可。

Thanks, Emma. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us. So during the quarter, we had a very strong quarter across all of our business lines. Before I get into the -- what I would call the meat of our business, I wanted to point out a couple of things before we go into the deck. First all, you'll see a value slide depicting the sum of the parts analysis, which we put in last quarter, and again, we put it in this quarter.

謝謝，艾瑪。大家早安，感謝您加入我們。因此，在本季度，我們所有業務線都表現非常強勁。在進入我所說的業務核心之前，我想在進入甲板之前指出幾件事。首先，您將看到一張價值幻燈片，描述了我們在上個季度放置的零件分析總和，並且我們再次將其放置在本季度。

Quite frankly, I believe our equity is very cheap when you look at peers in the business and our actual results. We have a best-in-class lending business, a large balance sheet and an asset management business with huge upside.

坦白說，當你看看業內同業和我們的實際業績時，我相信我們的股權非常便宜。我們擁有一流的貸款業務、龐大的資產負債表和具有巨大上升空間的資產管理業務。

Last quarter, I got a couple of questions on our equity raise, and I just wanted to address that as well. We raised $300 million. I get asked, what are you going to do with the money? So you understand our thought process. Since 2021, we have deployed $5.8 billion. We haven't raised any equity while growing our earnings by approximately 60%. I'd say that's pretty impressive. We have funded our growth with our operating businesses, balance sheet, and a little bit of high-yield debt.

上個季度，我收到了一些有關我們股權融資的問題，我也想解決這個問題。我們籌集了 3 億美元。有人問我，你打算拿這些錢做什麼？這樣您就了解我們的思考過程。自 2021 年以來，我們已部署 58 億美元。我們沒有籌集任何股本，但我們的收入成長了約 60%。我想說這非常令人印象深刻。我們透過營運業務、資產負債表和少量高收益債務為我們的成長提供資金。

As we think about risk, there are multiple wars going on. We're in the middle of what could be a highly contested election. And as many of you know, we're always engaged in activity to grow our platform through M&A. So I would say all of these factors are good reasons why we want to have more capital.

當我們考慮風險時，有多場戰爭正在發生。我們正處於一場競爭激烈的選舉之中。正如你們許多人所知，我們一直致力於透過併購來發展我們的平台。所以我想說，所有這些因素都是我們想要擁有更多資本的充分理由。

Now back to our operating companies, Newrez and Genesis, our lending business has produced excellent results. Genesis had a record quarter, and we cannot be more thrilled with that platform. As banks pull back, we win.

現在回到我們的營運公司Newrez和Genesis，我們的貸款業務取得了優異的成績。Genesis 的季度業績創歷史新高，我們對這個平台感到無比興奮。當銀行退出時，我們就贏了。

In Newrez, we have a portfolio of $875 billion-ish of mortgage servicing rights, which include both owned servicing rights and third-party servicing. These assets have been great. Our Origination business had another very good quarter with increased volumes and profitability. On the asset management side, Sculptor, which was acquired less than a year ago, last November.

在 Newrez，我們擁有價值 8,750 億美元左右的抵押貸款服務權投資組合，其中包括自有服務權和第三方服務。這些資產非常好。我們的原產地業務又經歷了一個非常好的季度，銷量和獲利能力都有所提高。資產管理方面，去年11月收購了不到一年的Sculptor。

Performance is extremely good across all of our verticals, including real estate, credit and its multi-strat fund. The teams are out raising money, and we're starting to see inflows across the entire platform. This past quarter, the real estate group announced their first closing of their multibillion-dollar SRE Fund V. We're very pleased with how well the fundraising is going despite such a challenging environment and expect that fund to be oversubscribed, a true testament to the team.

我們所有垂直領域的表現都非常好，包括房地產、信貸及其多策略基金。團隊正在籌集資金，我們開始看到整個平台都有資金流入。上個季度，該房地產集團宣布首次募集其價值數十億美元的 SRE Fund V。儘管環境如此充滿挑戰，但我們對籌款的進展感到非常滿意，並預計該基金將獲得超額認購，這是對團隊的真正證明。

We look forward to when you will see meaningful contributions from the Sculptor franchise to the bottom line of Rithm. On Great Ajax, the REIT we took over the management contract on -- in Q2, we have repositioned the residential assets in the company and look forward to growing the vehicle with opportunistic investments in the commercial space.

我們期待您能看到 Sculptor 系列對 Rithm 的獲利做出有意義的貢獻。在 Great Ajax 上，我們接手了房地產投資信託基金的管理合約——在第二季度，我們重新定位了公司的住宅資產，並期待透過商業領域的機會性投資來發展該工具。

We've done this before while building new residential at Fortress going back to 2013, and we'll do it again. The commercial real estate business today is in one of those periods where we feel current capital deployment will be hugely rewarded down the road and being patient searching for the right investments will reward our shareholders.

早在 2013 年，我們在 Fortress 建造新住宅時就已經這樣做過，而且我們還會再這樣做。今天的商業房地產業務正處於這樣的時期之一，我們認為當前的資本部署將在未來獲得巨大的回報，耐心尋找合適的投資將回報我們的股東。

One last note on Ajax. Last week, we announced we are changing the name from Great Ajax to Rithm Property Trust, which should happen in the fourth quarter. Now I'll refer to the deck, which has been posted online.

關於 Ajax 的最後一點說明。上週，我們宣布將名稱從 Great Ajax 更改為 Rithm Property Trust，這應該會在第四季度進行。現在我將參考已發佈在網路上的牌組。

So on Page 3, the way to think about the company today is effectively across all of our business lines, we manage $80 billion of assets. We have $7.8 billion of permanent capital in the public markets. And again, we have an $875-ish billion servicing portfolio. So real scale across all of our business lines. We don't need anything today when you look at the verticals that we're in and you think about the current market environment.

因此，在第 3 頁上，我們今天思考公司的方式實際上是跨越我們所有的業務線，我們管理著 800 億美元的資產。我們在公開市場擁有 78 億美元的永久資本。同樣，我們擁有價值 8,750 億美元左右的服務組合。我們所有業務線的規模都如此真實。當你看看我們所處的垂直領域並考慮當前的市場環境時，我們今天不需要任何東西。

So where are we going and what do we want to do here? One, obviously, we want to grow AUM, but what matters first is performance. And when you look across the platform, all cylinders are firing. We want to expand our direct lending. So what does that mean? Obviously, we have Newrez and Genesis, which contribute meaningfully to our business. We're going to continue to look at other areas in financial services where we could expand our direct lending.

那麼我們要去哪裡以及我們想在這裡做什麼？第一，顯然，我們希望增加資產管理規模，但首先重要的是績效。當你看向平台時，所有的汽缸都在點火。我們希望擴大直接貸款。那麼這意味著什麼呢？顯然，我們有 Newrez 和 Genesis，它們對我們的業務做出了有意義的貢獻。我們將繼續關注金融服務領域的其他領域，在這些領域我們可以擴大直接貸款。

On new market opportunities, we're always looking to grow. But again, we want to be prudent and think about different areas where we could grow that we have real expertise around the house and that we're going to make a meaningful contribution to the bottom line of Rithm for our shareholders.

面對新的市場機遇，我們始終尋求成長。但同樣，我們希望保持謹慎，考慮我們可以發展的不同領域，我們擁有真正的專業知識，並且我們將為股東的 Rithm 底線做出有意義的貢獻。

We're obviously continuing to try to grow our private capital business. I mentioned during the quarter, we're starting to see real inflows in the Sculptor business at the Rithm level, we're out looking at other opportunities to raise capital as well. And then again, we are -- we continue to look to expand into new investment verticals.

顯然，我們正在繼續努力發展我們的私人資本業務。我在本季度提到過，我們開始看到 Rithm 級別的 Sculptor 業務有真正的資金流入，我們也在尋找其他籌集資金的機會。再說一遍，我們繼續尋求擴展到新的投資領域。

For the quarter, an excellent quarter. This is the 20th consecutive quarter where our earnings available for distribution was greater than common dividends paid. Book value, up 8% since 2021, very stable quarter-over-quarter.

就本季而言，這是一個出色的季度。這是我們可供分配的收益連續 20 個季度高於支付的普通股息。帳面價值自 2021 年以來成長了 8%，季比非常穩定。

One note on that, when the Fed announced earlier this year that they wanted to start cutting rates, we got very close to home, which is where we are today. You're going to see -- I believe you'll see very little book value volatility as we go forward. Dividend yield, we currently trade at 8.8%, and that's as of 9/30/24, and we closed the quarter with roughly $2 billion of cash and liquidity.

需要注意的是，當聯準會今年稍早宣布他們想要開始降息時，我們已經離家很近了，這就是我們今天所處的位置。你會看到——我相信，隨著我們的前進，你會看到帳面價值的波動非常小。截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日，我們目前的股息殖利率為 8.8%，本季末我們擁有約 20 億美元的現金和流動性。

For the quarter, GAAP net income, $97 million, $0.20 per diluted share. Earnings available for distribution, $270 million or $0.54 per diluted share with a return on equity number of 18% Book value closed the quarter at $6.4 billion, $12.31 per common share. Today, it's roughly $12.5 or something in and around that. We paid $0.25 in dividends and again, $2 billion of cash and liquidity on our balance sheet.

本季 GAAP 淨利為 9,700 萬美元，攤薄後每股收益 0.20 美元。可供分配的收益為 2.7 億美元，或稀釋後每股收益 0.54 美元，股本回報率為 18%，本季帳面價值為 64 億美元，每股普通股 12.31 美元。今天，它大約是 12.5 美元左右。我們支付了 0.25 美元的股息，並在資產負債表上再次支付了 20 億美元的現金和流動性。

Page 5, sum of the parts. I'm not going to spend a ton of time on it. Have a look at it. Bottom line as we traded in and around $10.5 to $10.60 or something like that. Book value today is, give or take, $12.5. If you look at the value of our parts and compare us to peers, I personally have a very strong view that our equity is extremely attractive here and think there's a significant upside.

第 5 頁，各部分的總和。我不會花很多時間在上面。看看吧。我們的交易價格約為 10.5 美元至 10.60 美元或類似價格。今天的帳面價值（或多或少）為 12.5 美元。如果你看看我們零件的價值並將我們與同行進行比較，我個人強烈認為我們的股權在這裡非常有吸引力，並且認為有很大的上升空間。

Page 6. This was some of the earlier comments that I referred to. When you look at our capital deployment since 2021, if you look to the left part of the page, Jan of 2021, earnings available for distribution were $0.34. Today, we're $0.54. We've deployed $5.8 billion of capital since '21. That includes acquiring different operating platforms that -- included in that is Sculptor. We bought $1.4 billion of consumer loans from Goldman. We acquired Genesis Capital. We bought Caliber. We bought SLS.

第 6 頁。這是我之前提到的一些評論。當您查看 2021 年以來我們的資本部署時，如果您查看頁面左側（2021 年 1 月），可用於分配的收益為 0.34 美元。今天，我們的價格為 0.54 美元。自 21 年以來，我們已部署了 58 億美元的資本。這包括收購不同的操作平台，其中包括 Sculptor。我們從高盛購買了 14 億美元的消費貸款。我們收購了創世紀資本。我們買了口徑。我們買了SLS。

When you think about all those transactions and you think about actually the portfolio growth and not going out to raise a ton of equity, it's a great story. Earnings available, as I look at, again, earnings growth, roughly 60%, and our CAGR is 14%. So I think the team should be really proud of those numbers. And again, that should dispel any of the questions about why we're raising $300 million of equity in a quarter.

當你考慮所有這些交易並考慮投資組合的實際成長而不是籌集大量股權時，這是一個很棒的故事。我再次查看了可用獲利，獲利成長約為 60%，我們的複合年增長率為 14%。所以我認為團隊應該為這些數字感到自豪。再說一次，這應該會消除我們為什麼要在一個季度籌集 3 億美元股本的任何疑問。

When we look at the next phase of growth, like I said earlier, we don't really need anything. I mean we want to raise more money in our private capital business. So our balance sheet grows a little bit less as we go forward. We want to continue to put up what I would call very good results across all of our platforms.

當我們考慮下一階段的成長時，就像我之前所說的那樣，我們真的不需要任何東西。我的意思是我們希望在我們的私人資本業務中籌集更多資金。因此，隨著我們的前進，我們的資產負債表成長會減少。我們希望繼續在我們所有的平台上取得我所說的非常好的結果。

And from a credit perspective, there's a lot of talk about everybody growing private credit. We're in that camp as well, and we want to grow our private credit. But just keep in mind, we've been in these businesses for 10 years. When you think about direct lending, you think about the mortgage company we built, you think about Genesis Capital, you think about secured credit, unsecured credit, whether it be at Sculptor, whether it be at Rithm, you think about real estate, we've been in these sectors for a long, long time. And now it's just creating more scale around our private capital business.

從信貸的角度來看，有很多關於每個人都在增加私人信貸的討論。我們也屬於這個陣營，我們希望增加我們的私人信貸。但請記住，我們從事這些業務已有 10 年了。當你想到直接貸款時，你會想到我們建立的抵押貸款公司，你會想到 Genesis Capital，你會想到擔保信貸、無擔保信貸，無論是在 Sculptor，還是在 Rithm，你會想到房地產，我們我們已經在這些領域工作了很長一段時間。現在，我們的私人資本業務正在擴大規模。

On Newrez, we built this company, quite frankly, from scratch. While at Fortress, if you go back to the Fortress days, we built Mr. Cooper. Obviously, those guys have done a great job. But if you look at where we are today, we are -- I think we're a top three mortgage bank, nonbank mortgage originator, and servicer in the US large portfolio service over 4 million customers, huge third-party business as we grew through our SLS acquisition.

坦白說，我們在 Newrez 上從零開始建立了這家公司。在 Fortress，如果你回到 Fortress 時代，我們就打造了庫柏先生。顯然，這些人做得很好。但如果你看看我們今天的處境，我們——我認為我們是美國排名前三的抵押貸款銀行、非銀行抵押貸款發起人和服務商，為超過400 萬客戶提供大型投資組合服務，隨著我們的發展，我們擁有龐大的第三方業務透過我們對 SLS 的收購。

The company makes a lot of money in third quarter. If you look where we are from a production standpoint, through Q3, we're $41 billion in origination, and that's higher than where we were in all of '23. Genesis Capital, another great story. We acquired this company from Goldman's Merchant Bank, I believe, in '22. \

該公司第三季賺了很多錢。如果你從生產的角度來看我們的情況，到第三季度，我們的初始成本為 410 億美元，這比我們 23 年全年的水平還要高。創世紀資本，另一個偉大的故事。我相信我們是在 22 年從高盛商業銀行收購了這家公司。\

Earnings, just to give you a sense, when we bought the company, I think we were doing something around $50 million in EBITDA. This year, we should do something between, give or take, $90 million of EBITDA. Production numbers are up from $2 billion, and we may close the year at something around $3.5 billion to $4 billion. So real good story.

收益，只是為了讓您有一個感覺，當我們購買該公司時，我認為我們的 EBITDA 約為 5000 萬美元。今年，我們應該在 9000 萬美元的 EBITDA 之間做一些事情。產量從 20 億美元上升，今年結束時的產量可能在 35 億至 40 億美元左右。真是個好故事。

Most importantly here is when you look at the portfolio, delinquency numbers are extremely low. sponsor growth is high and the return on equity, and that's how we think about all our businesses, return on equity for our shareholders is extremely high.

最重要的是，當您查看投資組合時，拖欠率極低。贊助商的成長速度很高，股本回報率也很高，這就是我們對所有業務的看法，我們股東的股本回報率非常高。

Sculptor, what I would say in Sculptor is, again, we go back to November of last year, closed on the company, I believe, around November 20. It's a great, great business, business, has a ton of upside. Teams are doing really well. Every day, it gets better. When you look at real returns for the LPs that Sculptor and the leadership served, they're great. I mean, there's just no reason why this company is not going to grow in a significant scale as we go forward.

Sculptor，我想在 Sculptor 中說的是，我們再次回到去年 11 月，我相信公司在 11 月 20 日左右關閉。這是一項非常棒的生意，有很多好處。球隊表現非常好。每一天，情況都會變得更好。當你看看 Sculptor 和領導層所服務的有限合夥人的實際回報時，你會發現他們的回報非常好。我的意思是，隨著我們的發展，這家公司沒有理由不大規模發展。

There's plenty of room for us. There's plenty of room for our overall franchise. And again, it's performance first, and that's the Sculptor mentality. I opened up in one of the quotes performances, that's our mantra. We want performance before we grow AUM. And when you look at this platform, there's nothing that disputes that way of thinking.

我們有足夠的空間。我們的整體特許經營權有足夠的空間。再說一次，性能第一，這就是雕塑家的心態。我在一場引述表演中開場，這就是我們的口頭禪。在增加資產管理規模之前，我們首先需要的是績效。當你查看這個平台時，你會發現這種思考方式是無可爭議的。

On the commercial real estate business on Page 11, we do some balance sheet investing at the Rithm level. We've been pretty methodical there. I do think over time that when we look at Rithm, we look at Great Ajax. What you're going to see is more strategic partnerships, I think, of the Rithm balance sheet.

在第 11 頁的商業房地產業務中，我們在 Rithm 層級進行了一些資產負債表投資。我們在那裡一直非常有條理。我確實認為，隨著時間的推移，當我們看到 Rithm 時，我們看到的是偉大的 Ajax。我認為，你將看到 Rithm 資產負債表上更多的策略夥伴關係。

As we look forward, we do think around the real estate business today that we're in one of those periods of time, as I pointed out my opening remarks, that current capital deployment is going to be hugely rewarded down the road as we look at the real estate business.

當我們展望未來時，我們確實認為今天的房地產行業正處於這樣的時期之一，正如我在開場白中指出的那樣，當前的資本部署將在未來獲得巨大的回報，正如我們所看到的那樣在房地產行業。

Page 12, just talking about the macroeconomic themes. Obviously, we're in a period where who knows what's going to happen with this election. When you think about inflation, you think about deficits, you think about yields. I think regardless of what you're going to see -- you could see are higher yields in the long end, we have seen a steepening of yield curve, which -- where the front end should be anchored here. But I think you can see higher long-term rates on the back end as deficits continue to balloon.

第12頁，只是談論宏觀經濟主題。顯然，我們正處於一個誰知道這次選舉會發生什麼的時期。當你想到通貨膨脹時，你會想到赤字，你會想到收益率。我認為，無論您將看到什麼，您都可以看到長期收益率更高，我們已經看到殖利率曲線變陡，前端應該錨定在這裡。但我認為，隨著赤字繼續膨脹，你可以看到後端長期利率上升。

Another common theme asset-based finance. Everybody is talking about finance. As I pointed out, we've been doing this for -- I've been in the business ever, and we've been doing this together as a group for a long, long time. So there's nothing different here.

另一個共同的主題是資產金融。每個人都在談論金融。正如我所指出的，我們一直在做這件事——我一直從事這個行業，而且我們作為一個團隊一起做這件事已經很長時間了。所以這裡沒有什麼不同。

When you look at banks, banks continue to look for capital relief around either their balance sheets or some of the things that they're doing. We're very active in what I would call credit risk transfer. With credit risk transfer, we've done some large transactions with some of our large money center banks, and we'll continue to do that as we go forward.

當你觀察銀行時，銀行會繼續圍繞其資產負債表或他們正在做的一些事情尋求資本減免。我們在我所說的信用風險轉移方面非常積極。透過信用風險轉移，我們已經與一些大型貨幣中心銀行進行了一些大額交易，我們將繼續這樣做。

On the consumer side, consumers continue to remain resilient. We don't see any real degradation or deterioration in consumer credit and then I brought up on the real estate side from a cycle standpoint. Baron's going to take us down and talk about Newrez and the mortgage company, and then I'll jump back in a little bit later the queue.

在消費者方面，消費者持續保持彈性。我們沒有看到消費信貸有任何真正的退化或惡化，然後我從週期的角度提出了房地產方面的問題。巴倫將帶我們下去談論紐雷茲和抵押貸款公司，然後我稍後會插回隊列。

Thank you, Michael. Good morning. I'm going to start on slide 16. And -- we delivered another strong quarter with pretax income, excluding mark-to-market on the owned MSR portfolio of approximately $246 million, which is an increase of 8% quarter-over-quarter and delivering a 24% return on equity. Key drivers included a strong performance in our originations platform, as we're able to remain disciplined in growing our production while also increasing margins overall and maintaining our market share.

謝謝你，麥可。早安.我將從幻燈片 16 開始。而且，我們又實現了強勁的季度稅前收入（不包括以市值計價的 MSR 投資組合約 2.46 億美元），該收入環比增長 8%，股本回報率達 24%。關鍵驅動因素包括我們的原創平台的強勁表現，因為我們能夠在增加產量的同時保持嚴格的紀律，同時提高整體利潤並保持我們的市場份額。

While on the servicing side, we saw continued growth in our third-party franchise, coupled with our best-in-class operational efficiency, which is also highlighted by the completion of SLS integration, which we did three months post-acquisition in the second quarter.

While on the servicing side, we saw continued growth in our third-party franchise, coupled with our best-in-class operational efficiency, which is also highlighted by the completion of SLS integration, which we did three months post-acquisition in the second四分之一.

And these results overall just continue to present the foundation Michael talked about that we've built over the last few years, driven by our industry-leading servicing capabilities, our robust client franchise, best-in-class customer experience, and our proprietary technology.

這些結果總體上繼續呈現了邁克爾談到的我們在過去幾年中建立的基礎，這是由我們行業領先的服務能力、強大的客戶特許經營權、一流的客戶體驗和我們的專有技術推動的。

Turning to slide 17. And you can see there that we just remain in growth mode, right? In the third quarter, as Michael mentioned, Newrez maintained our position as the second largest nonbank servicer with over $755 billion notional UPB that we directly service and the fifth largest lender in the industry with a 3.4% market share. We remain well-positioned to continue to take market share through our organic and inorganic growth while maximizing performance for our shareholders.

轉到投影片 17。你可以看到我們只是保持成長模式，對吧？正如 Michael 所提到的，在第三季度，Newrez 保持了第二大非銀行服務商的地位，我們直接服務的名義 UPB 超過 7,550 億美元，是該行業第五大貸款人，市場份額為 3.4%。我們仍然處於有利地位，可以透過有機和無機成長繼續佔據市場份額，同時為股東實現績效最大化。

Moving to slide 18. The scale of our MSR portfolio affords us significant opportunities for portfolio recapture and customer growth through future cross-sell strategies, right? And the customer retention overall is driven by market events, but also by our consumer connections, whether they're real to referrals or local sales relationships or other connectivity.

轉到投影片 18。我們的 MSR 產品組合的規模為我們提供了透過未來交叉銷售策略重新奪回產品組合和客戶成長的重要機會，對吧？總體而言，客戶保留率是由市場事件驅動的，但也由我們的消費者聯繫驅動，無論它們是真實的推薦、本地銷售關係還是其他連結。

As part of our strategy, we're making significant investments in building out our brand, our digital tools to enhance customer experience, and also data science to meet our customers where and how they want to be met.

作為我們策略的一部分，我們正在大力投資建立我們的品牌、增強客戶體驗的數位工具以及數據科學，以便在客戶希望的地點和方式滿足他們的需求。

The table on the right side of the page shows our direct lending refinance recapture results, which we believe is the proper way to measure how we're performing with consumers looking to refinance, right? Year-to-date, we have a 20 -- excuse me, sorry, one second. Year-to-date, we have recapture rates of 55% when including second liens as a retention tool and 38% is just our overall aggregate refinance recapture rate through the third quarter, right?

頁面右側的表格顯示了我們的直接貸款再融資重新獲得結果，我們認為這是衡量我們在尋求再融資的消費者方面表現如何的正確方法，對吧？今年迄今為止，我們有 20 秒——對不起，抱歉，一秒鐘。年初至今，當第二留置權作為保留工具時，我們的回收率為 55%，而 38% 只是我們第三季的整體再融資回收率，對嗎？

We completed the first phase of our CRM rebuild in the second quarter of 2024, and we believe there is significant room to improve our ability to retain and continue to gain traction with our customers overall. Away from recapture and turning to slide 19. Our origination business continued to perform well this quarter with $15.9 billion in funded volume, up 9% from last quarter. While the market remains competitive overall, we're able to improve margins to weighted average 1.23%, which is increased 17% quarter-over-quarter while maintaining market share, but also get back to a normalized level as seen in most of 2023.

我們在 2024 年第二季完成了 CRM 重建的第一階段，我們相信，我們留住並持續吸引整體客戶的能力還有很大的提升空間。遠離重新捕獲並轉到幻燈片 19。本季我們的發起業務持續表現良好，融資額達 159 億美元，較上季成長 9%。雖然市場總體上仍然具有競爭力，但我們能夠將加權平均利潤率提高到 1.23%，環比增長 17%，同時保持市場份額，同時也恢復到 2023 年大部分時間的正常水平。

All of our channels remain profitable, and the design of our platform allows us to take advantage of market opportunities regardless of the interest rate environment. As mentioned before, our top priority and biggest opportunity is our ability to retain our customers. And that will continue to drive benefits to all of our businesses.

我們所有的管道都保持獲利，而且我們平台的設計使我們能夠利用市場機會，無論利率環境如何。如前所述，我們的首要任務和最大的機會是我們留住客戶的能力。這將繼續為我們所有的業務帶來好處。

On slide 20, just connecting on our servicing business, that also continues to perform really well. Our operational efficiency is highlighted through our scale and cost leadership with an industry-leading cost per loan of $113. And as I mentioned, the completion of the SLS integration and our best-in-class digital customer experience.

在幻燈片 20 上，僅連接我們的服務業務，該業務也繼續表現良好。我們的規模和成本領先優勢凸顯了我們的營運效率，每筆貸款成本為業界領先的 113 美元。正如我所提到的，SLS 整合的完成和我們一流的數位客戶體驗。

Our Shellpoint mortgage third-party client franchise remained strong with a 5% gain quarter-over-quarter through continued momentum, gaining wallet share with existing customers while also adding new customers.

我們的 Shellpoint 抵押貸款第三方客戶業務仍然強勁，透過持續的勢頭，環比增長了 5%，贏得了現有客戶的錢包份額，同時也增加了新客戶。

And while our owned MSR delinquencies have increased quarter-over-quarter, they remain at historically low levels and our special servicing division is fully prepared to assist and support homeowners through any challenges whether financial issues or storms to find solutions keep customers in their homes. I believe our business is as best positioned as it ever has been, and I'm looking forward to continuing to tell the Newrez story to the market.

雖然我們自有的MSR 拖欠率逐季度有所增加，但仍處於歷史低水平，我們的特殊服務部門已做好充分準備，協助和支持房主應對任何挑戰，無論是財務問題還是風暴，以找到解決方案，讓客戶留在家中。我相信我們的業務處於前所未有的最佳位置，我期待著繼續向市場講述 Newrez 的故事。

Thank you. And back to you, Michael.

謝謝。回到你身邊，麥可。

Thanks, Baron. Just a couple of last slides and then we'll go to Q&A. On Genesis, I mentioned Q3, effectively a record quarter when we look at P&L and return on equity. The team does a great job there, continuing to grow that business. I would be very surprised if it doesn't get significantly scaled up here over the next couple of years. Obviously, a lot of it is demand-based, but overall performance has been great there. We couldn't be happier with Clint and his team and the overall performance of the business.

謝謝，男爵。最後幾張投影片，然後我們將進行問答。在 Genesis 上，我提到了第三季度，當我們考慮損益表和股本回報率時，這實際上是創紀錄的季度。團隊在那裡做得很好，並繼續發展該業務。如果在接下來的幾年裡它沒有顯著擴大規模，我會感到非常驚訝。顯然，其中很多都是基於需求的，但整體表現非常好。我們對克林特和他的團隊以及公司的整體表現感到非常滿意。

On the Sculptor side, I mentioned earlier, the real estate team was out. They're out with a large multibillion-dollar fund. They closed $1.3 billion, be very surprised if that doesn't get oversubscribed. The team candidly, is truly best-in-class at what they do, and it's really one of the crown jewels in our overall franchise.

在 Sculptor 方面，我之前提到過，房地產團隊已經出局了。他們擁有數十億美元的巨額基金。他們完成了 13 億美元的融資，如果沒有超額認購，那將是非常令人驚訝的。坦白說，該團隊在他們所做的事情上確實是一流的，而且它確實是我們整個特許經營權中的皇冠上的寶石之一。

During the quarter, closed a new CLO for $400 million. The CLO business will continue to grow for Sculptor and us, as we look at this business going forward, not only here in the US but also overseas in the UK. From an overall performance standpoint, I mentioned before the teams are doing a great job. Performance is the number one thing that matters and obviously, in the asset management business, we lead with performance. AUM is going to follow. We're starting to see more AUM come back on the platform. So again, really, really excited with the prospects of Sculptor and the overall team.

本季度，以 4 億美元的價格完成了一項新的 CLO。對於 Sculptor 和我們來說，CLO 業務將繼續成長，因為我們展望這項業務的未來，不僅在美國，而且在英國等海外市場。從整體表現的角度來看，我之前提到團隊做得很好。績效是第一位的，顯然，在資產管理業務中，我們以績效為主導。AUM 也將緊跟其後。我們開始看到更多的資產管理規模重新回到平台。再說一遍，我對 Sculptor 和整個團隊的前景感到非常非常興奮。

And then finally, on a [door], this is our single-family rental business. We have 4,200 units. What I would say there is cap rates are -- when you look at real cap rates, no matter what -- how people advertise them, whether it be in the build-to-rent space or in the scattered lot space, typical cap rates are really in the -- in what I would say, the low 5s.

最後，在[門]上，這是我們的單戶租賃業務。我們有 4,200 個單位。我想說的是，當你查看實際的資本化率時，無論如何，人們如何宣傳它們，無論是在建租領域還是在分散的地段空間，典型的資本化率我想說的是，確實處於5 分以下。

When you think about Rithm or Sculptor or any of our other investment platforms, we look to see what the best opportunity is for our overall capital. So when you think about growth there, we're not just going to grow a business if we think we could deploy capital better in another area to increase enterprise value for the overall franchise.

當您考慮 Rithm 或 Sculptor 或我們的任何其他投資平台時，我們會尋找對我們整體資本最好的機會是什麼。因此，當你考慮那裡的成長時，如果我們認為我們可以更好地在另一個領域部署資本以增加整個特許經營的企業價值，那麼我們就不僅僅是發展業務。

So in this period of time where if cap rates don't get higher or we're not able to acquire units at much higher cap rates, we have to evaluate what we're doing there. And I think it's -- that business is better served in a third-party vehicle than it is on our balance sheet. So that's it. So overall, things -- we had a very, very good quarter across all of our platforms.

因此，在這段時間內，如果資本化率沒有提高，或者我們無法以更高的資本化率收購單位，我們必須評估我們在那裡所做的事情。我認為，第三方工具比我們的資產負債表更能服務業務。就是這樣。總的來說，我們所有平台的季度表現都非常非常好。

And now we'll turn it back to the operator for Q&A.

現在我們將其返回給操作員進行問答。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Bose George, KBW.

博斯·喬治，KBW。

Hey, everyone. Good morning. So Michael, you noted the sum of the parts valuation potential. What are your latest thoughts on potentially listing part of Newrez as a way to potentially sort of realize some of that difference?

嘿，大家。早安.邁克爾，您注意到了各部分估值潛力的總和。您對可能列出 Newrez 的一部分作為潛在實現某些差異的方式有何最新想法？

I think here's what I would say. When we put in the slide that talks about how much capital we've deployed since 2021 without raising equity. One of the things that gives us the ability to do that is being that Rithm has all these wholly owned subs and all the capital stays in one bucket. While saying that, we have -- I mean, candidly, we have to figure out a way to get our equity price to trade where it should trade.

我想這就是我要說的。當我們放入投影片時，我們會討論自 2021 年以來我們在未籌集股本的情況下部署了多少資本。讓我們有能力做到這一點的原因之一是 Rithm 擁有所有這些全資子公司，並且所有資本都集中在一個桶中。雖然這麼說，但坦白說，我們必須找到一種方法，讓我們的股價以其應該交易的價格進行交易。

So it's -- my guess is it will be a '25 event if and when we take this company public, and we'll evaluate that. There's obviously other things we're thinking about in the M&A -- from an M&A landscape perspective, but I think it's more likely going to be a '25 event as we think about the mortgage company.

所以，我的猜測是，如果我們將這家公司上市，這將是 25 年的事件，我們將對其進行評估。從併購格局的角度來看，我們在併購中顯然還考慮了其他事情，但我認為當我們考慮抵押貸款公司時，這更有可能是 25 年的事件。

Okay. Great. And then actually, could we get an update on book value in October?

好的。偉大的。那麼實際上，我們能得到 10 月份帳面價值的更新嗎？

It's roughly $12.5, Bose.

Bose，約 12.5 美元。

Okay. Great. Thank you.

好的。偉大的。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Stephen Laws, Raymond James.

史蒂芬勞斯，雷蒙德詹姆斯。

Hi, good morning. Baron, a quick question around the residential volume refinance activity. Can you talk about that? Was that rate driven? Was it a function of the increased recapture opportunity? And kind of how do you see that trending in October or maybe as you look forward with where rates?

嗨，早安。巴倫，關於住宅量再融資活動的一個簡短問題。你能談談嗎？是由利率驅動的嗎？這是奪回機會增加的結果嗎？您如何看待 10 月的趨勢，或者您對利率的預期？

You kind of broke up a little bit. I don't know you kind of broke up a little bit there. So just I'll continue, the markets rallied a fair amount in the third quarter and then it's obviously given back all of those gains. We certainly saw refinance volume basically all in, get closer to, say, 30% of overall production. I think we're going to get ourselves more to a -- what I'll say is the market on a normalized basis. That said, we see our direct lending channels as we continue to basically get momentum through our recapture investments to continue to improve and increase.

你們有點分手了。我不知道你們在那裡有點分手了。因此，我會繼續說，市場在第三季出現了相當大的反彈，然後顯然回吐了所有這些收益。當然，我們看到再融資量基本上全部集中，接近總產量的 30%。我認為我們將讓自己更加適應——我想說的是，市場處於正常化的基礎上。也就是說，我們看到我們的直接貸款管道，因為我們基本上繼續透過收回投資獲得動力，繼續改善和增加。

Great. And then switching gears over to Sculptor. Michael, as the third quarter went through, I believe we typically get some annual performance fees that hit in Q4. Can you maybe try to quantify that? And maybe what type of earnings impacts that may have as far as margin on those performance fee in fourth quarter?

偉大的。然後切換到 Sculptor。邁克爾，隨著第三季的結束，我相信我們通常會收到一些第四季的年度績效費用。你能嘗試量化一下嗎？也許對第四季業績費的利潤率有什麼類型的影響？

I don't think I can give you forward-looking performance fees. I would say, as you know, in the asset management business, and particularly in the Sculptor business, you should see some performance fees come in the fourth quarter. I think when you -- just going back to when we first acquired the company in November of last year, as you know, in asset management, you assume a certain multiple of where these trade versus earnings or DE.

我想我不能給你前瞻性的績效費。我想說，正如您所知，在資產管理業務中，特別是在 Sculptor 業務中，您應該會在第四季度看到一些績效費用。我認為，當你回到去年 11 月我們首次收購該公司時，如你所知，在資產管理領域，你會假設這些交易與收益或 DE 之間存在一定的倍數。

And I would say that if you look at where we are today from an acquisition perspective and you think about the actual multiple, it's really something in the -- I would call it, the high single digits right now based on '24. And I think that number obviously gets lower as we go forward.

我想說，如果你從收購的角度來看我們今天的處境，並考慮實際的倍數，我會稱之為基於 24 年的高個位數。我認為隨著我們的前進，這個數字顯然會降低。

So when you think about true value creation here, I personally believe this will be one of our better partnerships/investments that will be made in many, many years as this platform continues to grow. So you're going to see more lumpiness, I think, particularly going into the fourth quarter, but that's when you're going to see the bulk of the earnings hit as we see monetization. And we see more AUM come on the platform.

因此，當你考慮這裡真正的價值創造時，我個人相信，隨著這個平台的不斷發展，這將是我們在許多年裡進行的更好的合作/投資之一。因此，我認為，你會看到更多的波動，特別是進入第四季度，但那時你會看到大部分收益受到貨幣化的影響。我們看到平台上出現了更多的資產管理規模。

Great. Well, it's certainly nice to see the AUM growth in the business of $34 billion, look forward to continuing to watch that to grow. Thanks, Michael.

偉大的。嗯，很高興看到該業務的 AUM 成長 340 億美元，期待繼續看到這一成長。謝謝，麥可。

Thanks, Steven.

謝謝，史蒂文。

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

艾瑞克‧哈根，BTIG。

Hey, thanks. Good morning. Maybe first off, I mean, in a scenario where rates continue rising, if you were to grow book value because of a write-up in the MSRs, do you feel like you have the flexibility to effectively take the capital from Newrez and repurpose it to other segments of the portfolio?

嘿，謝謝。早安.我的意思是，也許首先，在利率持續上升的情況下，如果你因為 MSR 的增記而增加賬面價值，你是否覺得你有靈活性，可以有效地從 Newrez 獲取資金並重新利用它投資組合的其他部分？

Yes. I mean this goes back to Bose's question. Everything sits in effectively one part. And that's given us the ability to grow earnings from, call it, low 30s in '21 to $0.54 where we are today. So the answer is, again, Eric, going back, I use the example on the single-family rental business. We don't have to be in a business to be in a business. We want to think about the best ways to deploy capital. If we thought MSRs were rich, we would just -- potentially you could just turn around and sell them. It's a great cash-flowing asset that's unlevered and the way that we see it something between 8% and 10%.

是的。我的意思是這又回到了 Bose 的問題。一切都有效地位於一個部分中。這使我們有能力將收入從 21 世紀 30 年代的低點增長到今天的 0.54 美元。所以答案是，艾瑞克，回頭來說，我用單戶租賃業務的例子。我們不必為了從事生意而從事生意。我們想要考慮部署資本的最佳方式。如果我們認為 MSR 很豐富，我們可能會轉身把它們賣掉。這是一項巨大的無槓桿現金流資產，我們認為它的比率在 8% 到 10% 之間。

So I don't see any change there. Just one other caveat there when we look at book value and where we are today from an overhedge perspective, one of the reasons our balance sheet looks grossed up, it's because we're for the most part, fully hedged against our entire business to take out any kind of book value volatility.

所以我沒有看到任何變化。當我們從過度對沖的角度來看帳面價值和我們今天所處的位置時，還有另一個警告，我們的資產負債表看起來總計的原因之一，是因為我們在很大程度上完全對沖了我們整個業務的風險消除任何類型的帳面價值波動。

While saying that, we reported $12.31. Today, we're about $12.5. So we feel like we're in really good shape, both book value, the ability to redeploy capital away from the mortgage company if, in fact, we wanted to do that. But I think it's more growth across the entire platform.

話雖如此，我們報告的價格為 12.31 美元。今天，我們的價格約為 12.5 美元。因此，我們覺得我們的狀況非常好，無論是帳面價值，還是從抵押貸款公司重新部署資本的能力（如果我們確實願意的話）。但我認為這是整個平台的更多成長。

Yes. That's really helpful. Okay. So what are your -- sorry about that. What are your perspectives on the mix messaging around consumer credit that we seem to be picking up through earnings here? I mean some indications that consumers are a little over leveraged and struggling. At the same time, rates are coming down, unemployment is low. What's the right read-through to the portfolio when we think about the servicing on one side and then the rest of the portfolio, if you will, on the other end?

是的。這真的很有幫助。好的。那麼你的是什麼——對此感到抱歉。您對我們似乎透過這裡的收益發現的有關消費者信貸的混合訊息有何看法？我的意思是一些跡象表明消費者的槓桿率有點過高並且陷入困境。與此同時，利率正在下降，失業率也很低。當我們一方面考慮服務，另一方面考慮產品組合的其餘部分（如果您願意的話）時，對產品組合的正確解讀是什麼？

We have -- if you look at the servicing portfolio, $878 billion, I think $235 billion of that is third-party servicing. The rest is own servicing. Thinking back in time, we have a bunch of legacy anybody that refied in '20 or '21 that has two and change coupon mortgages, I think those folks are in very good shape. You might see a tad higher in delinquencies, but overall, it still seems to us that the consumer is in reasonable shape.

如果你看看服務組合，我們有 8,780 億美元，我認為其中 2,350 億美元是第三方服務。剩下的就是自己維修。回想一下過去，我們有很多遺產，任何人在 20 或 21 年間都擁有兩次和改變息票抵押貸款，我認為這些人的狀況非常好。您可能會發現拖欠率略高，但總體而言，我們認為消費者的狀況仍然合理。

I think a good telling -- if you look at some of the bank earnings, I mean, I think that would probably be a good place to look. We're not in subprime auto, subprime autos have rolled over a little bit here when you look at overall delinquencies. But overall, our portfolios look like they're in pretty good shape.

我認為這是一個很好的說法——如果你看一下銀行的一些收益，我的意思是，我認為這可能是一個值得關注的好地方。我們不涉及次級汽車，當你看看總體拖欠率時，次級汽車已經滾動了一點。但總體而言，我們的投資組合看起來狀況相當良好。

Got you. I think we're looking at slide 6, it looks like maybe you bought some excess MSRs in the quarter. Can you talk through that purchase? Is that an investment in the Newrez segment? Or is that the investment portfolio?

明白你了。我想我們正在看投影片 6，看來您可能在本季購買了一些多餘的 MSR。您能談談那次購買嗎？這是對 Newrez 部門的投資嗎？或者說這就是投資組合？

It's in the investment portfolio. It's something that we owned already, and there was a liquidation of an MSR fund that actually we used to manage and we bought some of those MSRs or the excess MSRs.

它在投資組合中。這是我們已經擁有的東西，我們實際上曾經管理過的 MSR 基金進行了清算，我們購買了其中一些 MSR 或多餘的 MSR。

Got you. Thank you guys very much.

明白你了。非常感謝你們。

Thanks, Eric.

謝謝，埃里克。

Kenneth Lee, RBC Capital Markets.

肯尼斯李，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Just one on Sculptor. I wonder if you could just give us a rough sense of what the recent net flow picture has been there? And then as you look across the various strategies within credit, real estate and multi-strategy, which areas could be the most attractive areas for potential organic growth opportunities as you look forward over the next few years? Thanks.

嘿，早安。感謝您提出我的問題。Sculptor 上只有一張。我想知道您是否可以讓我們粗略地了解最近的淨流量情況？然後，當您審視信貸、房地產和多策略領域的各種策略時，您展望未來幾年，哪些領域可能是最具吸引力的潛在有機成長機會領域？謝謝。

So the growth in the platform, I think the last time we reported, I think we showed a number of roughly $32 billion of AUM. So you could assume it's up a few billion between what we're doing and -- or what's happening in the CLO business, the real estate fund just closed at $1.3 billion, I think they're expecting another close here shortly. Start -- the performance overall in the platform when you look at actual real numbers, it's been excellent. So you're going to see some natural AUM growth as a result of the overall performance.

因此，我認為我們上次報告時顯示了該平台的成長，其資產管理規模約為 320 億美元。因此，你可以假設我們正在做的事情和 CLO 業務中正在發生的事情之間上漲了幾十億美元，房地產基金剛剛以 13 億美元收盤，我認為他們預計很快就會再次收盤。開始－當你查看實際的實數時，平台的整體表現非常出色。因此，您將看到整體績效帶來的資產管理規模自然成長。

But I think it's across all of the platforms. Obviously, every asset manager keeps talking about private credit, private credit, we'd like to scale up our private credit business. The real estate team, like I said, is out with a multibillion fund that is likely gets oversubscribed, and I think there'll be more funds beyond that.

但我認為它適用於所有平台。顯然，每個資產管理公司都在談論私人信貸，私人信貸，我們想擴大我們的私人信貸業務。正如我所說，房地產團隊已經拿出了數十億美元的基金，很可能會被超額認購，而且我認為除此之外還會有更多的基金。

And then on the multi-strat side, as long as performance is good, I see no reason why they're not going to see more flows coming back. So I think it's across the entire platform. One area that -- and I'll speak from the Rithm perspective for a second, when you look at the large asset managers, there's been a huge asset growth in the insurance space.

然後在多策略方面，只要表現良好，我認為他們沒有理由不會看到更多的流量回來。所以我認為它遍及整個平台。在這一領域，我將從 Rithm 的角度談一談，當你觀察大型資產管理公司時，會發現保險領域的資產出現了巨大的成長。

Obviously, we're not there right now and would love to get there. It's a valuation thing and finding the right asset to help you grow. But when you look at where we sit as an organization in our direct lending, we manufacture -- when you look at our funds and the things that we do at the Rithm level in all of our business lines, we manufacture assets.

顯然，我們現在還沒有到達那裡，但很想到達那裡。這是一個評估問題，並找到合適的資產來幫助你成長。但是，當你看看我們作為一個組織在直接貸款中的地位時，我們製造——當你看看我們的資金以及我們在所有業務線的 Rithm 層面所做的事情時，我們製造資產。

It's like we are in so-called direct lending, and we want to continue to grow that in the event that we're able to acquire some kind of insurance liability structure or something that could help us grow. I think that's really where you're going to see real growth at the overall platform. But on the Sculptor side, it's more of the same. We've distinct -- or not we have, but we're almost a year into the close, it gets better every day, performance is great. I see no reason why all the verticals at the Sculptor level won't continue to grow.

這就像我們從事所謂的直接貸款，如果我們能夠獲得某種保險責任結構或可以幫助我們成長的東西，我們希望繼續成長。我認為這確實是您將看到整個平台真正成長的地方。但在 Sculptor 方面，情況基本上相同。我們有獨特的——或者沒有，但我們已經接近一年了，每天都在變得更好，表現很棒。我認為雕塑家級別的所有垂直領域沒有理由不會繼續增長。

Got you. Very helpful there. And just one follow-up, if I may, just in terms of the direct lending expansion, and you talked a little bit more about that. What kind of form could this expansion look like? It sounds like you already got some capabilities around it? And are you talking about, for example, like middle market direct lending, things of that nature? Thanks.

明白你了。那裡非常有幫助。如果可以的話，我只想說一個後續行動，就是直接貸款擴張方面，您對此又談了一些。這種擴張會是什麼樣的形式呢？聽起來您已經具備了一些相關的能力？例如，您是在談論中間市場直接貸款等此類性質的事情嗎？謝謝。

Yes. The direct lending, like obviously, we have a large mortgage company that makes a ton of money. We have the Genesis business that makes a lot of money. We are under-scaled, I would say, in credit at the Rithm level. So when we look at direct lending and think about ways to partner with Sculptor and things that we could do on the direct lending side, we are looking hard at that space.

是的。直接貸款，顯然，我們有一家賺了很多錢的大型抵押貸款公司。我們的創世紀業務賺了很多錢。我想說的是，我們在 Rithm 級別的信貸規模不足。因此，當我們考慮直接貸款並思考與 Sculptor 合作的方式以及我們可以在直接貸款方面做的事情時，我們正在認真研究這個領域。

We don't want to pay dumb multiples. I mean if you think about real asset growth over the course of the past 20 years, you've been in a cyclical -- more than cyclical, you've been in a bull market where equities have gone up. Credit's done extremely well.

我們不想支付愚蠢的倍數。我的意思是，如果你考慮過去 20 年的實際資產成長，你會發現你一直處於週期性——不僅僅是周期性，你一直處於股市上漲的牛市中。信貸做得非常好。

But with the banks, when you think about the banks and you've heard it from all the other asset managers with the banks pulling back in certain areas, we think there is room for us to find or grow the right platform around direct lending. So it's definitely a space where we're very keenly focused on.

但對於銀行來說，當你想到銀行並且你從所有其他資產管理公司那裡聽到銀行在某些領域退出時，我們認為我們有空間圍繞直接貸款找到或發展合適的平台。所以這絕對是我們非常關注的領域。

Got you. Very helpful there. Thanks again.

明白你了。那裡非常有幫助。再次感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Crispin Love, Piper Sandler.

克里斯平·洛夫，派珀·桑德勒。

Thanks, and good morning, everyone. Just on operating ROEs across the business, you had 18% operating ROEs in the quarter that improved. But just curious on your expectations for sustainable operating ROEs over the intermediate to long term as we hopefully come out of a trough mortgage environment here. Is it high teens? Is it low 20s? Just curious on if you have any thoughts there.

謝謝，大家早安。僅就整個企業的營運 ROE 而言，本季營運 ROE 就有 18% 有所改善。但只是好奇您對中長期可持續營運股本回報率的期望，因為我們希望擺脫抵押貸款環境的低谷。是高青少年嗎？是20幾歲嗎？只是好奇你是否有什麼想法。

Yes. I think on everything we do, we measure risk returns. We're not going to shoot for the stores unless we think we have an itch. Obviously, the -- you look at our mortgage business and you can compare it to other friends and peers out there, I think we perform as good as anybody, quite frankly.

是的。我認為我們所做的每一件事都會衡量風險回報。除非我們覺得心癢癢，否則我們不會去商店拍攝。顯然，你看看我們的抵押貸款業務，你可以將它與其他朋友和同行進行比較，坦白說，我認為我們的表現和任何人一樣好。

When you look at the ROEs, the Genesis business continues to do well. We just spoke about direct lending, you look at the portfolio of assets we have. We're going to try to put a mid-teens type returns. I don't think that's anything different than you've heard from us over the years.

從股本回報率來看，Genesis 業務持續表現良好。我們剛才談到了直接貸款，你看看我們擁有的資產組合。我們將嘗試獲得十幾歲左右的回報。我認為這與您多年來從我們這裡聽到的沒有什麼不同。

And when you actually look at the real performance going back since the company was started, it's probably something in and around a mid-teens type of return in all environments. And this goes back to [13%]. So -- and I think those are realistic numbers. Obviously, it's overweight mortgage and the mortgage company has done its job. But I think as we grow the asset management business and our platforms, you'll continue to see those types of numbers.

當你實際查看公司成立以來的真實業績時，你會發現在所有環境中，回報率可能都在十幾歲左右。這又回到了[13%]。所以——我認為這些都是現實的數字。顯然，這是超額抵押貸款，抵押貸款公司已經完成了它的職責。但我認為，隨著我們資產管理業務和平台的發展，您將繼續看到這些類型的數字。

Great. Appreciate that. And then, Michael, also in your prepared remarks, you mentioned the election. I was just wondering if you could share kind of your thoughts on election implications for Rithm. We could see rate moves, potential volatility, housing implications. Just curious on how you're thinking about it near and intermediate-term on potential impacts to Rithm. Thank you.

偉大的。很欣賞這一點。然後，邁克爾，在你準備好的發言中，你也提到了選舉。我只是想知道您是否可以分享您對 Rithm 選舉影響的想法。我們可以看到利率變動、潛在波動、房屋影響。只是好奇您如何看待近期和中期對 Rithm 的潛在影響。謝謝。

Yes. I think when we look at some of the messaging that's coming out of both parties, I mean, Kamala Harris is talking about giving people money, first-time homeowners to buy things, to buy homes. You're looking at Kamala Harris going after what I would call the SFR space around corporates going out and buying housing. I think what's going to end up happening and I think it would be the best outcome probably for the country. I don't care what party you are thinking about is if you have a divided government.

是的。我認為，當我們查看雙方發出的一些信息時，我的意思是，卡馬拉·哈里斯正在談論給人們錢，讓首次購房者買東西、買房子。你看到的卡瑪拉·哈里斯（Kamala Harris）正在追求我所說的圍繞企業走出去和購買住房的 SFR 空間。我認為最終會發生什麼，我認為這可能對這個國家來說是最好的結果。如果你有一個分裂的政府，我不在乎你想到的是哪個政黨。

So I think a lot of the so-called rhetoric that you have coming out of both candidates is going to be hard for them to pass a lot of the things that are going on. Irregardless of that, whether Trump comes up with tariffs, if he gets in or Harris comes up with her stuff, I think a lot of this stuff is going to be harder to pass. The biggest -- one of the biggest challenges, and you hear it from some of the very smart people in our business is the deficit. The deficit's going to grow no matter what. The government needs to continue to issue tons and tons of debt. So how do we think about that from an overall rate perspective?

因此，我認為兩位候選人提出的許多所謂言論對他們來說將很難通過正在發生的許多事情。不管怎樣，無論川普提出關稅，如果他加入或哈里斯提出她的東西，我認為很多這樣的東西將更難通過。最大的挑戰之一，你從我們這個行業中一些非常聰明的人那裡聽到的，就是赤字。無論如何，赤字都會增加。政府需要繼續發行大量債務。那麼，我們如何從整體利率的角度來考慮這個問題呢？

While saying that, you have to think about the uncertainties that could be created if Trump got in, and for example, you had tariffs, what does it really do to the economy? How do we think about that? How do you think about the immigration policies and do you start seeing wage inflation?

這麼說的同時，你也要考慮一下，如果川普上台可能會產生一些不確定性，比如說你加了關稅，這對經濟到底有什麼影響？我們對此有何看法？您如何看待移民政策？

So I think the way that we're positioned now is to have an abundance of cash and liquidity. We are extremely close to home from an overall REIT perspective. And that's the way we're going to run until we get some other kind of tea leaves that may rear their heads. But we're close to home. We feel good about our risk profile. I mentioned before, book value is up again quarter-over-quarter, obviously, because of the rate sell-off. But we're going to be extremely close to home from a duration standpoint. Our financing is extremely buttoned up. So we feel good about where we are.

所以我認為我們現在的定位是擁有充足的現金和流動性。從整體房地產投資信託基金的角度來看，我們離家非常近。這就是我們將要運作的方式，直到我們得到一些可能會抬起頭來的其他種類的茶葉。但我們離家很近。我們對自己的風險狀況感覺良好。我之前提到過，帳面價值環比再次上升，顯然是因為利率拋售。但從持續時間的角度來看，我們將離家非常近。我們的融資非常保守。所以我們對自己所處的位置感覺良好。

Great. Thank you, Michael, and I appreciate taking my questions.

偉大的。謝謝你，邁克爾，我很高興回答我的問題。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Jason Weaver, Jones Trading.

賈森‧韋弗，瓊斯貿易公司。

Thanks. Good morning. Hey, Michael, I think you mentioned during your prepared remarks, it had been something like 20 quarters that you've overrented your dividend on EAD. Considering that ROE that you're throwing off right now and maybe contextualize with what's likely to happen in the next couple of months and beyond that. What do you think about the level of the dividend payout here and if that could possibly be moderated upwards?

謝謝。早安.嘿，邁克爾，我想您在準備好的發言中提到過，大約有 20 個季度您已經超支了 EAD 的股息。考慮到您現在正在放棄的 ROE，並可能與未來幾個月及之後可能發生的情況結合。您對這裡的股息支付水準有何看法？

The dividend policy is driven by, obviously, our Board. I've been pretty clear about the dividend based on our Board discussions that we weren't raising our dividend because you're just giving back the capital to redeploy it.

顯然，股利政策是由我們的董事會推動的。根據我們董事會的討論，我對股息的態度非常明確，我們沒有提高股息，因為你只是回饋資本來重新部署它。

While saying that, with hedge funds having shorts out there, would I love to raise the dividend significantly and drive it? The answer is yes. But I don't -- again, it's a Board decision. I don't see us raising the dividend today because with the thought process, if you trade at an 8% to 9% dividend yield and let's assume that our equity does right itself.

話雖如此，由於對沖基金存在空頭，我是否願意大幅提高股息並推動股息成長？答案是肯定的。但我不會——再說一遍，這是董事會的決定。我認為我們今天不會提高股息，因為透過思考過程，如果您以 8% 至 9% 的股息殖利率進行交易，並且我們假設我們的股本本身是正確的。

Effectively, we could deploy the capital. If we can deploy the capital in the mid-teens, it's only going to create more earnings for shareholders. And effectively, it should drive the valuation of our overall enterprise significantly higher.

實際上，我們可以部署資本。如果我們能夠在十幾歲的時候部署資本，它只會為股東創造更多的收益。實際上，它應該會顯著提高我們整個企業的估值。

A little frustrated, obviously, with where our equity trades. But I do think over time, it will ride itself. Bose asked about the mortgage company. We're looking at a lot of other things. And while we want to manage quarter-to-quarter, and I think we do a very good job and try to put up consistent earnings. We're in it for the long game, and I see no reason why our equity shouldn't be significantly higher down the road.

顯然，我們對我們的股票交易地點感到有點沮喪。但我確實認為，隨著時間的推移，它會自行發展。Bose詢問了抵押貸款公司的情況。我們正在研究很多其他事情。雖然我們希望按季度進行管理，但我認為我們做得非常好，並努力保持穩定的收益。我們是在打持久戰，我認為我們的贏率沒有理由不該顯著提高。

You look at a lot of the large asset managers, I look where they were a few years back and you look where they are. Now if we stay true to our knitting and where we think we're going to go here, I think that our company has tremendous upside. So for now to get back to capital, I don't think makes -- makes sense. Again, a little frustrating, but I think it's more -- based on Board decisions, it probably stayed the course.

你看看很多大型資產管理公司，我看看他們幾年前的狀況，你看看他們現在的狀況。現在，如果我們堅持我們的針織和我們認為我們將要走向何方，我認為我們公司有巨大的上升空間。因此，現在回到資本，我認為沒有意義。再一次，有點令人沮喪，但我認為更重要的是——根據董事會的決定，它可能會堅持到底。

Got it. Thank you for that color. And then maybe one for Baron. Curious about how you think about the operational footprint, given what could be widely different sort of origination volume scenarios going forward and how you can maintain that flexibility?

知道了。謝謝你的那個顏色。然後也許是給男爵的。想知道您如何看待營運足跡，考慮到未來可能存在截然不同的發起量場景，以及如何保持這種靈活性？

When you ask about footprint, you're talking about like our -- how we manage our ops on origination and servicing. I'm not really sure what you're asking.

當您詢問足跡時，您談論的是我們如何管理發起和服務方面的操作。我不太確定你在問什麼。

Your originator capacity is there to be able to handle additional volume or even lighter volume.

您的發起者能力能夠處理額外的音量甚至更小的音量。

Yes. So look, it's been an absolute focus, I think, for the industry overall. We feel and we continue to believe that we have significant headroom from an operational perspective. We've actually moved a fair amount of our operations from an offshore perspective as well to give us that added flexibility. But from where we stand today, we believe we do have significant headroom from any kind of rate environment that we will see coming in the future.

是的。所以看，我認為這絕對是整個產業的焦點。我們感覺並且仍然相信，從營運角度來看，我們擁有巨大的發展空間。實際上，我們也從離岸角度轉移了相當多的業務，以增加我們的靈活性。但從我們今天的立場來看，我們相信，無論未來出現何種利率環境，我們確實都有巨大的空間。

Got it. Okay, thank you very much.

知道了。好的，非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Trevor Cranston, Citizens JMP.

特雷弗·克蘭斯頓 (Trevor Cranston)，公民 JMP。

Hey, thanks. Good morning. Most of my questions have been addressed. I guess one more on Newrez. Can you maybe spend a minute talking about the wholesale channel obviously, kind of dominated by the top two players there, but you guys have had some growth over the course of 2024. I was curious if you could just talk about how you see your positioning within wholesale and the growth opportunity there? Thanks.

嘿，謝謝。早安.我的大部分問題都得到了解答。我猜還有一個關於紐雷茲的。您能否花一點時間談談批發管道，顯然，該管道由那裡的前兩名參與者主導，但您在 2024 年取得了一些增長。我很好奇您能否談談您如何看待您在批發領域的定位以及那裡的成長機會？謝謝。

So like you mentioned, it's dominated by really the one company and then there's a second larger one. I think there's room for a lot of players in there where we can continue to position. We've certainly positioned from a non-agency perspective, which is part of our original DNA. We also did a pretty significant technology upgrade and we're continuing to work on our technology to basically deliver downstream to our wholesale broker partners.

所以就像你提到的，它實際上是由一家公司主導的，然後還有第二家更大的公司。我認為那裡有很多球員可以繼續定位的空間。我們當然是從非代理的角度進行定位，這是我們最初 DNA 的一部分。我們也進行了相當重大的技術升級，我們正在繼續研究我們的技術，以便基本上將下游產品交付給我們的批發經紀合作夥伴。

The industry has changed pretty significantly overall, as brokers have grown multifold. And they've added a lot of -- what I'll say is, loan officers throughout their entire ecosystem. So we're really basically just coming up to looking at our technology is really going to continue to drive our growth.

隨著經紀商成倍增長，整個行業發生了相當大的變化。我要說的是，他們在整個生態系統中增加了許多信貸員。因此，我們基本上只是開始關注我們的技術是否真的會繼續推動我們的成長。

I would also just say, Michael has been really clear about how we're putting out our capital. So we remain very disciplined in wholesale to the extent that the market allows us to take advantage of putting capital in wholesale, we'll do that, right?

我還想說，麥可非常清楚我們如何投入資金。因此，我們在批發方面仍然非常自律，只要市場允許我們利用將資本投入批發的優勢，我們就會這樣做，對嗎？

And the last couple of quarters, there's been some room for us to take market share, but we're going to remain disciplined in the sector, and technology for us is really going to be the way that we're going to drive further earnings growth. And as I mentioned, we focus on wholesale, a lot on our non-agency products. And to the extent that we can pick up added volume where we think it's attractive, we'll do that.

在過去的幾個季度中，我們還有一些佔據市場份額的空間，但我們將在該行業保持紀律，對我們來說，技術確實將成為我們推動進一步盈利的方式生長。正如我所提到的，我們專注於批發，尤其是我們的非代理產品。只要我們能夠在我們認為有吸引力的地方增加銷量，我們就會這樣做。

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. Thank you.

知道了。好的。這很有幫助。謝謝。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Michael Nierenberg for any closing remarks. Please go ahead.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回邁克爾·尼倫伯格 (Michael Nierenberg) 發表閉幕詞。請繼續。

Thank you. Appreciate everybody. Appreciate all the questions, everybody dialing in this morning. Obviously, you know where to find us if you have any follow-up. Have a great week. Stay safe. Speak to you next quarter. Thanks, everyone.

謝謝。感謝大家。感謝大家今天早上撥打電話提出的所有問題。顯然，如果您有任何後續行動，您知道在哪裡可以找到我們。祝你有個愉快的一周。保持安全。下個季度再和你談談。謝謝大家。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。